< 1306195328 252265 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306195448 860034 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306195460 533132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1306195463 76694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306196020 665648 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306196339 851704 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am highly amused by Homestuck reaction videos < 1306198459 175834 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306198907 560472 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306198988 481100 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306201282 349117 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1306202510 909640 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306203359 296322 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-129-238.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306203748 512666 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306203978 778975 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-129-238.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306204446 985030 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306206527 689626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-214.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306206648 126625 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-166-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306206938 706221 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306208324 609078 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306208443 975326 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306208623 831588 :augur!~augur@96.231.217.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306210992 224296 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306211687 385837 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1306211727 611147 :augur!~augur@96.231.217.119 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306211799 25749 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between $ and . and not having either in haskell? < 1306211804 588326 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have some mental confusion over them < 1306211836 186966 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can define them easily if you don't have them < 1306211860 497088 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f . g) x = f (g x) < 1306211867 308618 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f $ x = f x < 1306211883 496707 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the confusion comes from the associativity of ($) < 1306211884 942538 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1306211885 74366 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixr 0 $ < 1306211889 869637 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f $ g $ h $ x < 1306211898 169500 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equivalent to f . g . h $ x < 1306211924 966708 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f $ (g $ (h $ x)) < 1306211928 825529 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f . g . h) $ x < 1306211954 685942 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on one hand, you're just doing boring function application (and avoiding a couple of parentheses in some cases) < 1306211963 223301 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other you're building a reusable "function chain" < 1306211969 738752 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latter case < 1306211972 68605 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could easily say < 1306211976 709155 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1306211979 93914 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :newFunction = f . g . h < 1306211987 298512 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and refactor the other expression to be newFunction x < 1306212001 973517 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306212098 438458 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I said newFunction = f $ g $ h $ < 1306212152 149026 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't write sections like that < 1306212164 780745 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (?f $ ?g $ ?h $) < 1306212165 409063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `$' [infixr 0] of a section < 1306212165 511733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1306212165 593754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely `$' [infixr 0] < 1306212184 502404 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're thinking of is more like ((f $ g $ h) $) < 1306212195 206699 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((?f $ ?g $ ?h) $) < 1306212195 453479 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in general the x may not be as simple as a single operand < 1306212195 848484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1 b1. (?h::a, ?g::a -> b, ?f::b -> a1 -> b1) => a1 -> b1 < 1306212199 232167 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm! < 1306212209 554451 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that doesn't work < 1306212222 494351 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-214.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Baah. < 1306212225 516164 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306212233 911423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a missing flexibility in sections that might have been useful to have < 1306212249 932959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not for that particular case < 1306212270 178850 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say it's annoying to have to write ((f . g) .) instead of (f . g .) < 1306212368 307779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might have wanted (2 + 3 *) < 1306212450 72943 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-51.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306212474 787544 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw (. f . g) is fine, but both cannot be regardless of how you define .'s associativity) < 1306212600 501977 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-203-214.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306212746 739399 :pukey!~pukey@unaffiliated/pukey JOIN :#esoteric < 1306212898 838523 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just took 300mg melatonin < 1306212908 705025 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know no one cares, and I don't care that no one cares. < 1306212933 461841 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a severe violation of your privacy, i'm afraid i may have to ban you < 1306213297 922686 :pukey!~pukey@unaffiliated/pukey PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 mg melatonin is going to make you teh greatest rockstar ever. < 1306213918 356041 :pukey!~pukey@unaffiliated/pukey PART :#esoteric < 1306213925 504562 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306214101 891914 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit weird having my computer actually wired up for TV watching. < 1306214130 304703 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm really bored... Maybe I'll watch some TV or something. [1 minute later] Oh, right, TV sucks." < 1306214148 48009 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-161-51.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306214322 61548 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to Youtube with me. < 1306214547 49527 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, according to Harold Camping, it was a spiritual rapture, the world's ending in 5 months < 1306214571 871649 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_apocalypse_saturday < 1306214622 747155 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'spiritual rapture' < 1306214631 213719 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the earthquake metaphorical too? < 1306214681 145185 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-119.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306214709 44471 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306214778 381786 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He may have used the term "Judgement Day", not "rapture" < 1306214781 973529 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1306215767 737698 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-119.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306216015 379593 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-119.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306216377 29751 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306216510 994576 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306216521 289960 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-216.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306216529 243000 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-232-119.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306216602 121880 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means that $foo and @foo are two different variables. It also means that $foo[1] is a part of @foo, not a part of $foo. This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird < 1306216606 131664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd. < 1306216955 808523 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1306217107 282896 :aune_!~arne@bishibosh.lysator.liu.se QUIT :Quit: Hath Deprated < 1306217120 114830 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Perling? < 1306217126 871187 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes, quite a bit these days. < 1306217149 678501 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the most fun I've had programming in a while. < 1306217324 141362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has a lot of interesting concepts. Like context, for example < 1306217391 143095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306217921 511851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of Termnology for Memorable Paper Titles: A Case Study: "The Non-Bayesian Restless Multi-Armed Bandit: A Case of Near-logarithmic Regret" < 1306217922 124802 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has every concept. < 1306217997 857219 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :logarithmic regret doesn't sound too bad < 1306218006 251590 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it were exponential... < 1306218014 338766 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :title doesn't have enough references to movies < 1306218016 881607 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not read paper < 1306218050 636855 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Good, the Bad, and the Aversion to papers whos' titles fail to reference movies < 1306218208 887773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Contextual-Return-0.003001/lib/Contextual/Return.pm < 1306218218 746407 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... and here I thought there was only list, scalar, and void context. < 1306218657 638409 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm actually considering to temporarily set aside my hate for perl to play with that thing < 1306218821 84835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think you should only love Perl before you try to use that particular module. < 1306218842 864077 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it -for- < 1306218843 784008 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your own sake. < 1306218871 587894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: It allows you to control the behavior/return-value of a subroutine based on its calling context. < 1306218891 160224 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, as in...whether the result is going into a variable or not? < 1306218891 769154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wantarray is a built-in that does something similar, but that module has a few more features for special contexts. < 1306218901 272491 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's scalar and void < 1306218904 805704 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :list is when it's being applied over a list? < 1306218914 96226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :list is when it's in.... a list context. < 1306218916 348665 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306218919 70713 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-216.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306218919 494491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code expects a list, basically. < 1306218926 731103 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1306218934 37465 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: eek! I don't want to use the rest of perl, only the contextual returns < 1306218934 223228 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list = my_sub(); < 1306218934 312291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "= my_sub();" loaded < 1306218936 228257 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a list context. < 1306218988 674944 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: For a Fistful of Papers < 1306218995 234841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is for(my_sub()) and grep !/\.\.?/, my_sub() < 1306219073 109629 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of Perl built-ins and operators return different things in different contexts. < 1306219216 617878 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, m/regex/ returns true or false in scalar context if the regex matches a string, but in list context it returns a list of all the captured groups. < 1306219300 65298 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is...interesting < 1306219311 663406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, goody. Harold Camping was apparently off by 5 months. < 1306219338 197528 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rapture will happen on 2011-10-21T18:00. < 1306219366 845058 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1306219369 539852 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1306219397 590457 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/radio-host-says-worlds-955120.html < 1306219408 419746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(`ls directory`) {my ($name, $extension) = m/(.*?)\.(.*?)/; ...} < 1306219421 177663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ($var,$list) = ... is list context. < 1306219439 486059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that should be ls -1 directory < 1306219439 849021 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, more crazy than just "he was off by 5 months". < 1306219460 725318 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, the rapture wasn't *really* going to happen, but we have all been judged, and the world will end 2011-10-21T18:00. < 1306219477 779997 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1306219647 261922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes, Perl is interesting. I'd recommend giving it a look sometime. < 1306219772 516566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is contexts one of the reasons they invented Perl-golf? < 1306219874 309662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's one of many reasons, yes. < 1306219897 640713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :another reason would be $_ < 1306219954 991265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would also be one. < 1306220347 201064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know AWK and what you described about m/regex/ seems similar to something in AWK as well. In AWK, something like /regex/ matches against $0 and is boolean, although some built-ins take regular expressions as arguments in which case it does that instead. You cannot make your own functions that take regular expressions as arguments, in AWK. < 1306220378 759036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, interesting. < 1306220389 437752 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you specify a non-default string to match? < 1306220416 616943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, using the ~ operator; it takes a regular expression as one of its arguments. < 1306220419 447671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default perl does m// on $_, but not if you use the =~ operator. < 1306220427 649229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's awk inspired for sure. < 1306220654 957219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the m is optional actually. < 1306220771 535374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so, if I know Perl, is there any reason I'd want to use awk instead? < 1306220924 698735 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't know. Probably because awk is standard in UNIX and for the kind of things that awk is good for. < 1306220943 335323 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-58.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306220977 662884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if, the Deadfish challenge in anarchy golf, the shortest AWK submission is similar to the shortest Perl submission? < 1306221006 361080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're likely very similar since it's all string processing. < 1306221022 695137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, regex. < 1306221109 178876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You try submitting a Perl code to that challenge (I would advise to always select "Open code statistics", although it is not required). < 1306221116 18341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish < 1306221155 33364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you push "use form" then you can enter the code on the HTML form text area, otherwise you send a file with the correct extension) < 1306221180 563696 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-165-121.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306221192 836329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...woah Ruby. < 1306221213 689820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw def and I thought "Python..?" then I saw // and I thought "...Perl?" < 1306221225 795367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, Python + Perl = Ruby < 1306221231 106886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..right? < 1306221265 903757 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1306221269 131707 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, now that I've got Perl down I should probably learn Ruby. < 1306221319 247655 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-211-97.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306221336 981480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. < 1306221358 304076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you are interested, try submitting to the code golf challenge(s), using whichever programming language(s) you know. < 1306221407 389712 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I code golfed in java once < 1306221411 200296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that particular challenge, I am unbeat at AWK but my C codes are not quite short enough. < 1306221411 624328 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tough < 1306221488 505487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: They have Java, there, too. < 1306221666 519911 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd-sucks is now deliberately trying to tick people off. Or, well, it's so obvious that they're joking that it won't tick people off. Maybe < 1306221745 761673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: What are some of your opinions of making code-golf with Java? < 1306221793 531371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-165-121.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If it comes short of 2 megs, it's successful. :P < 1306221827 640479 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they do have Java < 1306221829 559308 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I used it :Bv < 1306221858 837221 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opinion on codegolfing in Java is: class A{static{try{for(int i=0,j,z=System.in.read()&7,k=z*6-2;i3*Math.max(z-i-1,i-3*z)?(i*3+j)%6:5));System.out.println();}}catch(Exception e){}}} < 1306221864 913211 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty much that < 1306221875 207783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a code for what? < 1306221880 490035 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?hexagon+2nd+fixed < 1306221882 757317 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Priting hexagons < 1306221907 485664 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you used any of the other programming languages available there? If so, which ones? < 1306221918 759690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(<>){s/i/$x++/e;$x-- if /s/&&$x!=0;s/s/$x**=2/e;s/o/print $x/e;last if /h/;$x=0 if $x==256} < 1306221947 780349 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, but I can tell you anyway that codegolfing in java is very cumbersome because it doesn't have any native language constructs for common idioms like other languages do < 1306221970 358053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1306221995 204848 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's the shortest Perl gold I've got for deadfish < 1306221996 986347 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing something as simple as IO is a pain < 1306222004 186815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*golf < 1306222014 805934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You can send to the form directly; all codes are revealed in 4 days < 1306222026 842065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1306222036 583353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you saying about the open code statistics again? < 1306222046 275144 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm going to wait and see if I can find something to remove. < 1306222051 320056 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or change. < 1306222051 498008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should select it (make sure it is checkmark). < 1306222072 538371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I should also test that it works. < 1306222111 630327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also, if you post, you can post another one later and if it has the same name it will override if shorter. If you do not want that, add something in parentheses after your name in case you want multiple submissions. Also, the server will test that it works automatically (if it doesn't, the error messages that it caused will be displayed) < 1306222137 869522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay < 1306222202 889830 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saving one character by using the s/i/$x++/e trick instead of using $x++ if /i/ :D < 1306222213 159374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless Perl lets you do something horrible like $x++if/i/ < 1306222228 143533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try < 1306222244 632845 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that...are you embedding an increment in an s/old/new? < 1306222246 831641 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn perl < 1306222269 804925 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does / mean something else < 1306222270 211984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think /e at the end makes it so that you can do that < 1306222278 953138 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes I am. < 1306222290 757258 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the e option at the end allows you to use Perl code as the replacement string < 1306222298 818657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's evaluated and then the result is substituted < 1306222387 68330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could find a good way to use it for $x-- so I just wrote it out as an if. < 1306222390 331159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*couldn't < 1306222424 797471 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and I could do $x*=$x==256 < 1306222558 78588 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1306222572 495986 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306222576 655713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(<>){s/i/$x++/e;$x-- if /s/&&$x!=0;s/s/$x**=2/e;s/o/print $x/e;/h/&&last;$x*=$x==256} < 1306222587 861263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also changed last if /h/ to /h/&&last < 1306222701 191189 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1306222721 421230 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306222727 6872 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1306222881 493211 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306222943 836277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, the s///e doesn't seem to be working though < 1306223030 222831 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1306223078 587655 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306223104 778946 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1306223374 810083 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright this seems to work: while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;/s/&&($x**=2);/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} < 1306223378 207791 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is shorter < 1306223409 834941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :87 bytes. < 1306223627 379014 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shortest is 50 bytes. The shortest AWK code is 39 bytes and is the one I wrote by myself. < 1306223657 953445 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-165-121.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1306223684 175025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think it is allowed to place options on the shebang line, although unlike real Perl-golf, the "#!perl" is still counted. < 1306223696 602024 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306223778 145877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306223801 778562 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} < 1306223802 407722 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           | < 1306223802 750190 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           |\ < 1306223804 838296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :85 < 1306223820 172877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks myndzi < 1306223834 575004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lolwhut < 1306223871 555228 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I'm not sure a shebang line could give me too many byte reductions. < 1306223917 645134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1306223920 713778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!perl -n < 1306223944 430775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would allow me to remove the while(<>){} compeltely. 1 byte lost. < 1306223988 605670 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember a line break is also required, and that if you use the form, it makes CRLF; you need to use a send file to make only LF. < 1306223998 635864 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1306224001 757480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know. < 1306224153 476554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1306224388 190943 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306224555 984293 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1306224622 477542 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-152.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306224785 613076 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306224788 444642 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I can go lower than 84 bytes on this one: < 1306224790 369550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} < 1306224790 803620 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           | < 1306224791 13446 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                          /| < 1306224795 370251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions? < 1306224808 403638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... wait that's not right. < 1306224821 617654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the while loop with a #!perl -n line at the top < 1306224859 47503 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 PART :#esoteric < 1306224934 291857 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-152.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306224942 435584 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306224992 148761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306225094 592879 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh < 1306225101 22677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants output on individual lines. < 1306225113 27710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffuuu.. < 1306225163 677448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm up to 88 now < 1306225482 214809 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1306225522 556594 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I think missing from AWK is something like this: /^Say "(.*)"$/{print \1} < 1306226040 334306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306226047 410524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that Perl? < 1306226054 237751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I see < 1306226058 342812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just used {} isntead of ; < 1306226081 808163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually outside of the regex itself you use $1 instead of \1 < 1306226124 19045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In AWK, $1 refers to the first field of the current record. < 1306226137 652101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily what is matched by () in regular expressions. < 1306226157 331537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's pseudo-AWK then? < 1306226158 348264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I suggest \ instead of $ for this case < 1306226164 156544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. < 1306226223 592152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow... I set the record at 94 bytes. < 1306226245 752485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I did rather poorly since my initial estimate was 84, but I had to make some changes to account for output formatting < 1306226319 138605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x=0;while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print"$x\n";$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} < 1306226319 748690 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                | < 1306226320 5112 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                               /| < 1306226333 95375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I have no clue what that bot is doing < 1306226382 961611 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it's pointing to the first o < 1306226385 666223 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1306226388 573516 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1306226389 95178 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1306226389 365344 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /| < 1306226390 493746 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306226393 107602 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a dude dancing < 1306226395 778965 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1306226396 414799 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1306226396 496875 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /< < 1306226398 308367 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o\ < 1306226398 803701 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1306226399 51744 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /| < 1306226401 974521 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o\ < 1306226402 582221 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1306226402 832374 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /| < 1306226407 438078 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306226439 287195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either there's a) no one using Perl in this contest b) no expert Perl golfers in this contest c) I am an expert Perl golfer. < 1306226452 935596 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean on golf.shinh.org ? < 1306226456 583244 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306226461 680624 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that place should be packed with ridiculous golfers < 1306226473 921688 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's one of the problems that only just got added < 1306226476 401753 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they haven't seen it yet < 1306226492 255245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a smaller way to do it < 1306226499 704393 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly using eval < 1306226551 228803 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep in mind that it only needs to support the cases that it tests for < 1306226563 294996 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could omit the halt probably? < 1306226577 855811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes you can, there is EOF at the end. < 1306226598 391530 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sample input i becomes sample output i for i = 1, 2, 3 golf.shinh.org won't care if it implements deadfish or not < 1306226609 690672 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, my solution to hexagons only works for odd values < 1306226613 110997 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only tests odd values < 1306226618 174009 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allowed me to shave off a lot of bytes < 1306226659 882652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...won't they like, look for cheating though? < 1306226664 791092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1306226666 997039 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one looks for cheating < 1306226671 923560 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's anarchic golf, after all ;) < 1306226678 152077 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, you said you had 94 bytes? < 1306226683 204815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, although if you want, you can make multiple submissions you can put stuff after your name such as (cheat) for cheating entries and so on < 1306226684 896514 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :down to 84 now with the halt removed. < 1306226695 83744 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the page the shortest perl solution is 50 bytes and the shortest awk solution is 39 bytes < 1306226697 420662 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can be done very short < 1306226711 65019 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? why does it say "and it's a new record!"? < 1306226714 491943 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 bytes in GoldScript and xgawk too, how about that < 1306226717 259405 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's a new record for -you- < 1306226722 16064 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just to keep track of your improvements < 1306226722 239113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, lame. :P < 1306226729 732554 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish < 1306226732 830338 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scroll down to language ranking < 1306226763 44688 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what the hell, 50 bytes... < 1306226860 987168 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306226872 814982 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of things like: the bitwise relationship between the values you read < 1306226883 660815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would consider it not cheating if you check for EOF instead of the "h" to halt, but it is cheating if other valid inputs fail to work. I suggest submitting cheating entries anyways but adding (cheat) after your name. < 1306226888 680187 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 7th in Perl. < 1306226898 977693 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I used that in the C code. < 1306226906 57889 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I saw a codegolfed brainfuck interpreter. It takes the modulo 2 of the input, because + and - are adjacent in the code and have opposite effects < 1306226914 415317 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i and o have a similar relationship... < 1306226981 968148 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought (cheat) was only used for insane exploits? < 1306227031 552687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww, ais beat me.. < 1306227049 993983 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Quine/eban%28cheat%29_1182659566&rb < 1306227069 695541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Well, I guess different people have different opinion what to use it for; I suggest using (cheat) if other valid inputs fail to produce valid outputs. < 1306227081 566201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else, use (embed) or (specific) in that case. < 1306227105 567036 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of the quine, reading your own file is considered cheating, too, of course. < 1306227112 58307 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :embed is where the output is contained within the code < 1306227121 225650 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of a tag for only solving the specific sample inputs, because it's the expected way < 1306227136 17416 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, erlang is the worst. If I knew Erlang I would try to beat the record on that one < 1306227152 820178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not want a tag for only solving the specific sample inputs, then you could instead use (genuine) to say it works on all valid inputs. < 1306227161 456192 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that more < 1306227172 48280 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll use it if I pick up code golfing again < 1306227241 982707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the reason of these kind of tags used in different ways (as well as just to make sure of things), I dislike endless problems. < 1306227266 393156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we should write something better than golfscript for golfing. with more operators. < 1306227280 241166 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than golfscript? it's called flogscript < 1306227288 198564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have had some idea for some binary file code golf < 1306227296 880766 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, binary golfscript < 1306227300 819453 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Better in some cases, worse in others, equally good in others. < 1306227309 745317 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse base 64 golfscript and call it a new language? < 1306227323 750379 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :25% smaller! *wink wink* < 1306227330 717560 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I don't mean quite like that. < 1306227436 284044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you actually shrunk the number of operators you could fit two on a byte and then have an operator for each hex digit < 1306227468 356606 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically my joke < 1306227504 26095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, sometimes vi or z80 is the shortest solution, shorter than the GolfScript and FlogScript codes. < 1306227513 763685 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't z80 assembly? < 1306227517 913447 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course it's smaller < 1306227522 908770 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1306227601 214138 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the printer oriented banner problem, my vi solution is shortest of all of them. < 1306227659 640216 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?PrinterOriented+Banner Note that "exec is denied" does not affect shell scripts, and only partially affects vi. < 1306227707 889819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait.... < 1306227712 102084 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the short versions are people managing to call it anyway? < 1306227713 303233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized something I could try. < 1306227720 552688 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306227863 418779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yes, although there is one difficulty being that it is not in PATH, even though the program is installed. And the C code does read the banner program without executing it. The other difficulty is that spaces are added to the end of the line and the problem requires it without the trailing spaces. < 1306227880 372253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are not too difficult to correct. < 1306227900 873713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, changing my while to a for shaved 2 bytes. :D < 1306227910 991252 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1306227911 713519 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1306227911 827355 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-4-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ < 1306228006 493117 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wonder what kind of system they're running on that website. < 1306228039 617717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, I'm wondering if I could use system commands in Perl on the server. I doubt it. < 1306228068 723104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's probably chrooted or something. < 1306228082 947597 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Depends. < 1306228097 372232 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the golf.shinh exploits are the best < 1306228098 161245 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were two directories where we can write permanent files and one of this was used in http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?27c3_Generate+C . I've already fixed the permission of this directory and removed the entries. Thanks 27c3 guys for finding this issue! < 1306228103 53404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't buy high-temperature superconductors over the internet? < 1306228107 38630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this crap? < 1306228107 835332 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some system V exploit someone made to communicate between programs that was fixed ages ago < 1306228152 762770 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/shinh/ags apparently this is what it runs < 1306228221 385629 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306228563 793296 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love this: Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling "Left Behind" novels about the end times, recently called Camping's prediction "not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!" He cited the Bible verse Matthew 24:36, "but about that day or hour no one knows" except God. < 1306228567 792115 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the left behind writers know better < 1306228713 802324 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-58.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306228829 649769 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Know what better? < 1306228904 24794 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :know better than to set a date < 1306228978 665636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Count asterisks" problem, I invented it and designed it with a cheat. I don't know who can notice right away the cheat and who doesn't. < 1306228994 12668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically God isn't even going to organise his armies ahead of time for the apocalypse? < 1306228994 133592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The angels will just be sitting around and one day suddenly there'll be all these Christians everywhere? < 1306228994 133858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306229008 248424 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306229021 864487 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure he has a contingent set aside for permanent end of the world readiness < 1306229025 576006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how the army has swat teams < 1306229133 966622 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I also agree that the left behind writers did know better than to set a date. One thing it can be determined by the logic, the other is that it even says so in the Bible itself! < 1306229188 38990 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1306229192 631747 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, how come people never set an end times prediction more than a lifetime away? < 1306229200 927237 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.153.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306229202 90244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the bible self-evidently set it, then surely it would have been in the far future at some point < 1306229278 869623 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 241 seconds < 1306229304 381031 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306229310 507284 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306229315 852753 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.153.109 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306229342 310119 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306229748 469234 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/shinh/ags/blob/master/be/modules/sandbox.c this looks complicated as < 1306230388 906795 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306230968 548800 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306231231 569984 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306231265 413120 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306231578 705576 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1306231600 910967 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306231780 255323 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306232083 488696 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306232177 322559 :cheater_!~cheater@82.113.99.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306232517 946420 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1306232557 352402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :down to 78 bytes on Perl. < 1306233015 497987 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306233048 95495 :cheater_!~cheater@82.113.99.41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306233050 899419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306233354 636100 :cheater_!~cheater@89.204.137.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306233647 200930 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1306234944 706503 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1306235320 191383 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306235320 308904 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306235320 308984 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306235513 558176 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306236865 469462 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306237173 610959 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1306237540 206708 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1306237571 476919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306237577 472231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306238114 289926 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306238141 561611 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306238141 813784 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306238141 894924 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306238249 739900 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306238367 670523 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.155.36.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306238806 561846 :cheater_!~cheater@89.204.137.72 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1306238832 705903 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306239064 297174 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1306239158 446546 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've come up with a linux kernel quine < 1306239364 208428 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it's actually a GNU kernel quine < 1306239636 704856 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306239706 803078 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1306239727 418971 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306239842 911709 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating wiki entry < 1306240504 602940 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306240821 843326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306240963 226751 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306241516 458945 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/GNU_Operating_System < 1306241787 714553 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a file IO quine? < 1306241800 931309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need some place to file "esoteric applications of typically non-esoteric languages" on the wiki < 1306241894 726944 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306241944 445216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306241959 374111 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's an esolang. no one programs for the kernel shebang interpreter. < 1306241969 734103 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they just copy-paste. < 1306241994 5316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't programming for the shebang interpreter, though < 1306242007 588286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awk program < 1306242014 66118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a shebang so that it will be invoked under awk < 1306242020 465003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well just do #!/usr/bin/cat < 1306242190 960712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm saying is, you're invoking external programs there < 1306242215 485042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like writing "system '/usr/bin/ruby'" and using it as a proof that Perl is Turing-complete < 1306242221 400595 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306242285 696484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it does contain commands to read the source file! #! provides the source file as an argument to something, and /usr/bin/awk interprets its argument as a file to read < 1306242524 374220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : that isn't programming for the shebang interpreter, though <-- hm would that be possible though < 1306242528 43831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1306242538 671029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's intelligent enough < 1306242544 885373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1306242548 94087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you do #!/tmp/a and save it as /tmp/a < 1306242551 521436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then chmod it executable < 1306242555 77993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get an infinite loop? < 1306242556 551678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1306242577 574696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course not < 1306242581 618248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1306242589 546529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that happened was that it went back to command prompt immediately < 1306242591 768954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION straces it < 1306242596 161539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Connection reset by peer) < 1306242598 759522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1306242621 453023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I doubt strace will help, it will likely never leave the kernel < 1306242645 483952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can the #! interpreter even recurse at all? < 1306242655 446563 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1306242657 173726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's an interesting point < 1306242671 162717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it would drop to userspace at some point, but semantically, that's a kernelspace infinite loop < 1306242686 641287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, if it were actually /interpreted/ as one it'd be a trivial DoS vulnerability < 1306242688 111595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1306242692 433808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, what happens if you do /tmp/b containing #!/bin/bash\nbash "$@" and then put /tmp/b as an interpreter for another program < 1306242841 225191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, I mean, what happens if you do /tmp/b containing #!/bin/bash\nbash "$@" and then put /tmp/b as an interpreter for another program <-- seems it works < 1306242851 139103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as in, you get an infinite loop? < 1306242853 778742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1306242854 486907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you get a forkbomb? < 1306242864 121353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in in my test it prints foo < 1306242868 118102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306242874 819637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just did finite recursion < 1306242899 609785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, infinite recursion between two different interpreters might work. Probably not < 1306242914 362642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I assume there is a finite length for such chains of interpreting < 1306242931 609299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that isn't an infinite chain, though, it's only two tiers < 1306242932 625616 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's programming for the shebang interpreter. < 1306242938 425020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1306242941 115920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it goes into userspace after loading bash < 1306242943 632551 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: refresh the page, i have made a simpler quine. < 1306242945 291092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: no, it isn't < 1306242948 102338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so we know it allows at least two tires < 1306242948 271341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's programming for awk < 1306242958 826096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1306242960 377180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiers* < 1306242961 567195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your page would be vaguely interesting if it was even remotely factually correct < 1306242966 58025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't < 1306242968 368461 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/cat is not awk < 1306243012 185416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: s/made a simpler quine/copied the quine I gave in the channel/? < 1306243017 393895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all cat programs are quines < 1306243020 570283 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1306243027 773691 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read that < 1306243049 430166 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, your line was wrong, because cat isn't in /usr/bin on many systems < 1306243055 419776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1306243063 171269 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i don't know a system where it's in /usr/bin but i hadn't searched. < 1306243066 78413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, though, it has basically nothing to do with the shebang interpreter < 1306243074 547066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: DJGPP < 1306243087 324342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep getting directories for executables wrong because I'm used to DJGPP < 1306243087 984248 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it not < 1306243100 706277 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shebang interpreter is what passes the file name of the script being executed < 1306243101 917456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not the shebang interp that's doing the printing, but an external progam < 1306243115 723263 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why it's a quine for the GNU OS < 1306243120 994645 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for the GNU shebang interpreter < 1306243156 492204 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :quines are trivial with file IO though < 1306243170 133213 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never said it's complicated < 1306243308 289897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the possibilities of a /bin/cd instead of having it as a builtin in the shell < 1306243319 19960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how it could be done, but it would be utterly messy < 1306243334 983581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a start it would involve ptrace() < 1306243352 882102 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you cannot have infinite recursion in the shebang interpreter because the interpreter itself cannot be a script (in most versions of the interpreter). < 1306243393 549376 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306243410 437679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to code an OS, but most of the time would be spent during boring stuff rather than the few interesting things < 1306243414 944264 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.108 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306243423 693795 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306243472 453244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some things I think could be done better than *nix, and I have some ideas. But yeah, I'm not very interested in spending hours coding drivers and so on. Nor is most of memory management very interesting < 1306243479 237832 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.108 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306243481 180460 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have really not read your /usr/bin/cat though, came up with it myself :p < 1306243485 750739 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's so obvious :p < 1306243489 554016 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306243504 549864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if building an OS in an HLL on top of a good microkernel would work < 1306243531 952698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(speaking of which, what good microkernels are there?) < 1306243543 376253 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.106 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306243552 680622 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306243574 314473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faaizaan, I think you need to fix your connection < 1306243608 200996 :Faaizaan!~faaizaan@119.160.126.106 QUIT :Client Quit < 1306243635 493588 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :-only- hours? very fast coder < 1306243718 870086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, well I didn't say how many. Probably hundreds of them :P < 1306243725 678949 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, true < 1306243739 729253 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know the first thing about coding a driver < 1306243790 626909 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple, basically you're writing to special addresses to memory, oh and you sometimes need to do realtime and make sure you don't block stuff. < 1306243793 102747 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other things. < 1306243815 628034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for memory mapped IO registers obviously < 1306243828 175371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 uses a separate bus for IO ports iirc < 1306243840 179855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that is still used on modern systems though < 1306243935 594583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/poll.pl?a=9 < 1306243964 173408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, *really* hope DMM recently got a child and hasn't told us and this is actually him picking a name. < 1306243993 805872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is "Zelda" actually an old name? Not something simply made up by Nintendo? < 1306244034 541027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zelda is a nickname for the feminine name Griselda which means "dark battle".[citation needed]" huh < 1306244042 600345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/"/ < 1306244061 319643 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1306244168 221209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The games are named ultimately after F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife. < 1306244178 908879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306244200 77825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt that though :P < 1306244265 535251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia down heh < 1306244328 599392 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, wtf? < 1306244335 309571 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without wikipedia we're doomed! < 1306244367 541781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and up again < 1306244626 715474 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald (July 24, 1900 – March 10, 1948), born Zelda Sayre ("Sayre" is pronounced to rhyme with "fair") in Montgomery, Alabama, was an American novelist and the wife of writer F. Scott Fitzgerald. < 1306244641 997945 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zelda's glamorous image also inspired the name of video game creator Shigeru Miyamoto's character Princess Zelda in his The Legend of Zelda video game series. Miyamoto explained, "Zelda was the name of the wife of the famous novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald. She was a famous and beautiful woman from all accounts, and I liked the sound of her name. So I took the liberty of using her name for the very first Zelda title."[85] < 1306244665 781530 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :citing this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/117177/ < 1306245224 742043 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-65-96-205-201.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306245246 406752 :Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-65-96-205-201.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1306245394 39078 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306245577 447470 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306245961 546458 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306245961 628128 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306245961 628252 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306246200 235466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_fish < 1306246201 29124 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306246280 257092 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-54.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306246512 230889 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just leave that there. < 1306246844 506001 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a very similar idiom in polish. < 1306246860 348494 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is "what does the gingerbread cake have to do with the windmill" < 1306247707 118100 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306248756 191438 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306248785 331541 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306248785 413602 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-176.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306248785 413689 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306248969 839770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306249161 830252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306249218 793926 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306249226 330898 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306249689 814520 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306249813 53784 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249813 352066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it hard to set up n ready my pc for programming? < 1306249817 296718 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249817 574996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally emailed paul graham the lisp guy today after reading about python in E raymonds essay he metions ruby n python is u cant use lisp < 1306249838 969453 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249839 188036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im really only a bash person and even then Im tin < 1306249849 290559 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1306249852 903710 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249852 985820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does haskell compare to say java? < 1306249855 575047 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249855 706528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this java guy I know says that java is the best when things get really complex and u need your apps do do real work < 1306249858 468299 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1306249860 193505 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249860 274968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why haskell over lisp? < 1306249862 411647 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249862 493239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant u just have data in arrays and do operations using you prog lang? < 1306249866 281070 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1306249866 362848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is haskell doomed to be a mysql driver? < 1306249869 317601 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1306249881 843348 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is brillant < 1306249912 310873 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1306250744 202444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is protontorpedo? < 1306250840 894837 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306250885 778849 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306251471 895896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. It seems that I need to hit auto adjust on the monitor when the temperature of the GPU changes significantly (such as when playing a 3D game for a while, or a while after stopping playing one) < 1306251482 865967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some shoddy intel graphics < 1306251549 75540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty hard to temperature-compensate circuits < 1306251564 198483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you have to use two entirely different circuits with opposite temperature responses, and arrange them to cancel each other out somehow < 1306251569 678545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's relatively expensive to do < 1306251581 89160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can just autoadjust the monitor instead, why not do it that way? < 1306251683 6797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you can just autoadjust the monitor instead, why not do it that way? <-- it is annoying to have to do that every minute or so when the chip is warming up or cooling down < 1306251763 977114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, especially since the monitor seems to need an image with lots of sharp lines in it to autoadjust. Meaning the typical 3D game is not well suited. Something like text works well however. < 1306251809 45989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember my old syncmaster came with a windows program to display some sort of auto-adjust pattern on the screen with a checkerboard pattern with a white frame in the outermost pixel < 1306251828 94821 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1306251898 901614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, we need one standard for digital monitor attachment. I could do digital for this monitor except I have no DP-to-DVI converter < 1306253888 393086 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1306254164 732783 :cheater__!~cheater@89.204.137.72 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306254764 238178 :cheater__!~cheater@port-87-234-27-47.static.qsc.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306255064 898523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In computer science higher-order functions consists of two things: closures and currying." < 1306255076 4247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From http://www.lazygun.net/) < 1306255110 956524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am clearly going to have to find this man and hit him until he stops being wrong. < 1306255166 221428 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... what < 1306255177 567375 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arn't higher order functions functions that take or return functions? < 1306255250 859836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306255264 429187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By his definition Python does not have higher-order functions. < 1306255291 73526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By his definition Lazy K doesn't have higher-order functions, come to think of it. < 1306255424 100212 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groovy.dzone.com/news/higher-order-functions-groovy- < 1306255425 13761 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source. < 1306255428 453235 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go correct him. < 1306255483 47071 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ask him what "map(func,iter)" is if that's the definition of higher-order functions. < 1306255514 11655 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306255514 930675 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then ask him how the hell you can have functional programming without higher-order functions, when using the correct definition. < 1306255534 230039 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even C supports functions that take functions as parameters, right?) < 1306255551 481097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean function pointers, then yes. < 1306255551 841826 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Link him to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_function < 1306255580 535167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why defining functional languages as those with higher-order functions is stupid. < 1306255627 284567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my working definition is that functional languages are those where reassignable variables are nonidiomatic (and might not even exist) < 1306255653 542668 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd define it as where programming in such a style is possible. < 1306255668 181816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher-order functions help too, but I'm not sure they're actually required for a lang to be functional < 1306255669 985146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you can emulate FP in C quite easily. < 1306255671 640046 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not a giant pain in the ass) < 1306255690 36054 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could program functionally in Python, couldn't you? < 1306255700 453594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more easily. < 1306255739 267573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call Python a functional programming language, although I would call it one in which functional programming was entirely possible < 1306255826 555148 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about, say, Scala. < 1306255842 177694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know Scala < 1306255851 952424 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I. < 1306255852 141738 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's var/val distinction makes it more likely to be functional by your definition, no? < 1306255864 706868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__ does. < 1306255872 896329 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, isn't such a definition more reliant on the community than the language unless no mutable state exists? < 1306255893 40608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: potentially it is < 1306255898 189776 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, paradigms are not at all rigidly-defined. < 1306255938 747236 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you gave a Haskell programmer Python, I doubt you'd see much mutable state. < 1306255941 990056 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutated* < 1306255958 388288 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you gave them Java, they'd kick you in the shin) < 1306255975 616741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you gave them C++, you might not see much runtime behavior. < 1306256130 186668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, output doesn't actually break referential transparency. < 1306256187 55974 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but your compiler might do surprising things unless it acts like it does. < 1306256255 27101 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no. < 1306256261 131101 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you gave them C++, they'd still kick you in the shin. < 1306256271 509302 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still runtime behavior, but not from the computer. < 1306256397 329193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I was saying they'd do most of their programming in templates. Which is *just* this side of tolerable if you write a preprocessor for the purpose. < 1306256450 575825 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... < 1306256475 658309 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could replicate functional programming in any OO language reasonably well if you have inner classes. < 1306256488 265412 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you give a Haskell programmer basic? < 1306256490 623232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing more than a compile-time static functional programming language with pattern matching. < 1306256509 430211 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have a Basic backend for GHC in a month. < 1306256530 824367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306256536 32226 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling Haskell to Basic? < 1306256540 45082 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1306256608 614865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or they'd peek and poke their way to a better language in a few minutes. Say, an assembler. < 1306256609 354920 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1306256633 539781 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder. < 1306256638 148266 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still woner. < 1306256639 967095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Basic really all that bad? < 1306256640 966231 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder* < 1306256654 222004 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you went to a Java shop, and lugged in scala-library.jar and scala-compiler.jar < 1306256779 440794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306256797 456139 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or clojure. < 1306256808 451270 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :()()((())()())] < 1306256811 793876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306256831 358424 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd probably be surprised at how little bloat your code has. < 1306257698 600218 :cheater__!~cheater@port-87-234-27-47.static.qsc.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, nice! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mCDkqXki0&feature=related < 1306259449 885150 :cheater__!~cheater@port-87-234-27-47.static.qsc.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306259685 804221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : my working definition is that functional languages are those where reassignable variables are nonidiomatic (and might not even exist) <-- what about closures? < 1306259703 294719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are less important too, although very useful < 1306259713 866028 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. separating bindings and references? < 1306259765 985630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm does bash have higher order functions? Arguably you could do it by eval < 1306259777 194783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even without it sometimes < 1306259794 748352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, I'm not a bash expert < 1306259803 509562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything with eval, you can normally simulate higher order functions in, though < 1306259804 225328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo { $1 whatever; } bar { something; } foo bar < 1306259806 504580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306259810 493138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's sufficiently eso that you can't do anything vaguely like that < 1306259835 590136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean it is easy to do function pointers in bash < 1306259862 756380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can reach the level that C has easily. < 1306259869 961560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without resorting to eval < 1306260494 116233 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306260620 574485 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306260660 484559 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306260872 632741 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306260963 721382 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306261072 168018 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306261168 492912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping (/msg) < 1306261327 885323 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[GNU Operating System]] is even more off-topic than [[PHP]] was and needs deleting < 1306261397 565279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that sort of thing is inherently offtopic, it's just that nobody's written one that's at all interesting yet < 1306261428 697351 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not esoteric, it's not a language, < 1306261440 750395 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its interest to esoteric programmers is only in that... you can run esointerpreters on it? < 1306261450 563554 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:58: Just took 300mg melatonin < 1306261450 645303 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :300??? < 1306261493 524087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I mean, things like Perl without letters or numbers probably qualify as esolangs < 1306261523 330736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the shell /is/ a programming language, by design < 1306261525 702499 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unix's REPL < 1306261530 867186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306261534 124151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note that this is not the same thing as Unix, or GNU, at all < 1306261537 258576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just one possible interface < 1306261547 80383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that you can do quines, or recursion, or anything, with it, is irrelevant < 1306261553 661970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: cheater897 wasn't claiming that the shell was an esolang, but that the "shebang interpreter" was, whatever that means < 1306261561 127165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a language by design, and not really an esoteric one < 1306261565 309228 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that makes no sense at all < 1306261567 848190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, it isn't, it's the executables that it runs that are... non-eso langauges < 1306261569 406161 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and < 1306261569 955131 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo '#!/usr/bin/awk {print $0}' > quine; chmod oau+x quine < 1306261570 690082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages < 1306261570 771938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is broken < 1306261573 589968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no newline < 1306261579 245418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, a cheat quine < 1306261580 695306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it did work < 1306261582 97959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was wondering about that, but didn't know enough awk to tell < 1306261583 466196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the simpler quine < 1306261588 521973 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1306261589 147845 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1306261591 90698 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even more broken < 1306261595 28165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads lines of input < 1306261596 278492 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and outputs them < 1306261597 23322 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1306261600 803167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a quine... that's cat < 1306261604 769193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it has to be cat < 1306261606 266705 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, the lack of a newline is after awk < 1306261611 653259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1306261612 460360 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bug in the "shebang interpreter" code ;-) < 1306261618 846212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do #!/usr/bin/cat < 1306261625 876576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the fixed quine is an actual quine, but a cheat one, so it doesn't count at all < 1306261626 136623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a quine by itself, on DJGPP < 1306261628 480583 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306261629 912834 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on unix too < 1306261632 571123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a cheat < 1306261638 393788 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally the recursion example is broken < 1306261639 700388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: on UNIX, cat is apparently typically not in /usr/bin < 1306261645 847373 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't use shebangs in a shebanged executable < 1306261648 817541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway I already deleted the page < 1306261650 108636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses which < 1306261669 312535 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok even for an off-topic page, it's literally the most error-ridden unfunny piece of crap i've ever read :P < 1306261675 107957 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't realise you deleted it < 1306261678 426020 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I opened it earlier) < 1306261792 854063 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306261792 944375 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306261793 26195 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306261973 745125 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306262359 309534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0." — Linus < 1306262382 220600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last release would have actually been a good time for it. < 1306262390 439216 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete removal of the BKL and all. < 1306262669 757778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.8.0 would be exciting. < 1306262693 317175 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of feel like the "2." part will disappear sometime soon. < 1306262703 105882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alternate proposal is to go to 3.0. < 1306262715 510742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And then, hopefully, increment the major version more often... < 1306262724 158136 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, compare 2.0 to whatever long string the latest release is. < 1306262729 973419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "alternate proposal" I mean "alternate proposal that Linus is actually considering") < 1306262730 120567 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me that isn't a major-version-worthy difference. < 1306262732 880227 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even going a year or two back. < 1306262755 215704 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Dear me, there's been quite a few major version-worthy changes in there. < 1306262796 842460 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even a few in 2.6. < 1306262826 191861 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tickless kernel and removing the BKL are two such changes. < 1306262827 542198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't 2.6 come out like half a decade ago? < 1306262865 172794 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6 came out 7 years ago. < 1306262894 517080 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1306262918 524800 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought going to 2.8 implied branching off a 2.7 first, and since there's been no branching there'll be no 2.8 < 1306262963 119312 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's Linus, he can do what the fuck he wants :) < 1306262963 294622 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The odd-number development thing is just straight-up outmoded, but there's still a bit of a desire for even number branches. < 1306262975 289149 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: true :) < 1306262999 603152 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BitKeeper and git kinda killed the need for development version numbers. < 1306263050 210577 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, how long did Linux use bitkeeper for anyway? < 1306263062 113881 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 3 years. < 1306263081 168218 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet before it did version control haters had an easier time -- "Damn man, use a VCS." "Linus doesn't." "Um, er, that is to say, erm," < 1306263093 954145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Complete removal of the BKL and all. <-- BKL? < 1306263101 198772 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Big Kernel Lock. < 1306263104 137331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306263145 359775 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the single biggest architectural change Linux has had. < 1306263162 153230 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should switch from 2.6.x.y to 3.1.1 and just let the last two numbers keep increasing forever... < 1306263169 71003 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, until some magical time they realize it's sufficiently different from 3.1.1 to call it 4.1.1 < 1306263184 474579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, why not 3.0.0 first? < 1306263220 347091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway most stuff in the kernel hadn't beel using the BKL for years iirc < 1306263220 822923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think major version numbers are irrelevant for any project that releases sufficiently often. < 1306263230 669815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have already realised that Chrome's major version number increments every few weeks. < 1306263240 365946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really it was just the last remains being cleaned up < 1306263259 212433 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The removal of the BKL happened in the 2.6 tree. Entirely. < 1306263260 920359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, doesn't chrome use a rather longwinded version number < 1306263269 953432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm yes but the 2.6 tree has been going for years < 1306263270 66669 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a fairly long, drawn-out process. < 1306263281 888640 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe using .1.1 would signify that it's not really the first major release (with the instability that usually implies), but already moved on to the first usable patch version < 1306263290 933011 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes; I'm on 11.0.696.68 < 1306263293 568801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway didn't some parts in 2.4 not take the BKL as soon as entering the kernel even? < 1306263295 500644 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't we just abandon versions, and use a release number, along with a git commit id? < 1306263303 155810 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really it was just random, I temporarily forgot where the numbers start < 1306263306 517851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and it hit eleven on... < 1306263308 924655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh < 1306263311 189340 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 28 April < 1306263318 484767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and twelve is already in the dev channel IIRC < 1306263328 322067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be in the stable channel in a matter of weeks :P < 1306263333 547372 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes, but that wasn't due to a plan to remove the BKL. < 1306263339 413086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that one is worse the old df version numbers iirc < 1306263350 582055 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the last two probably are a revision identifier of some kind < 1306263355 582796 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome moved past opera in version numbers in about a tenth of the time opera has existed < 1306263357 988975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm right < 1306263364 78092 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chrome on Windows and Mac updates completely silently, after all < 1306263368 485886 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on Linux it's an apt repository) < 1306263373 553365 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably something for yum too) < 1306263380 32896 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you realise just *how* tied in the BKL was when they started this. < 1306263393 221855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is a bit scary that it updates silently. Is there an option to at least notify you of it? < 1306263405 267040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, probably you are right < 1306263410 45513 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're not supposed to care. really. < 1306263421 118529 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even *open* took the BKL. < 1306263421 200644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure. It does yell at you to restart if it's gone too long without being quit or crashing (it actually includes "or crashing" in the message, at least as of last year :-D). < 1306263423 828598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I wouldn't trust google :P < 1306263450 829939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but not whatever system call is used for getpid() I bet < 1306263452 363032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not totally "comfortable" with it as far as the potential for abuse goes if it got popular, but I really can't bring myself to care when it's Google. < 1306263461 882796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's hardly any more secure than apt. < 1306263465 698582 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you check every update that comes in? < 1306263469 184391 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]less secure < 1306263487 950779 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the process-per-tab thingy in chrome, they should be able to partially upgrade the browser as you go along, upgrading tabs silently when you press reload :) < 1306263493 440421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, nope, but I have a nagging feeling that I should < 1306263502 737781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and then I realise I wouldn't have time < 1306263513 111325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Even if you did, you can't read binary patches. < 1306263519 761462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would have to compile every update from source yourself. < 1306263525 975189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed. < 1306263528 244196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you think you can detect exploits in source code -- see Underhanded C contest. < 1306263539 928440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm quite aware of that. < 1306263541 624442 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only possible solution is a smart environment (capability security, etc.). < 1306263547 478492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: most of those exploits aren't all that hard to find, though < 1306263551 657107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So while we're on our current systems... Chrome doesn't really bother me. < 1306263558 893568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, then you have to trust that environment. What about upgrades to it? < 1306263566 951955 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Chrome is probably better on that count than most programs, really. < 1306263568 745556 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you always have to trust someone. < 1306263576 619751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in that it at least has a sane security *model*) < 1306263577 445590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes indeed < 1306263578 724622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't trust any part of your computer, there is exactly one solution: don't tell it anything. < 1306263608 990849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't plug in a webcam. Never type anything you don't want the world to know. Blah blah blah. Basically if you don't trust anything you can't use a computer for anything. < 1306263609 993149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, if Google wants to rape that, then it's pretty well raped next update) < 1306263611 894460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well I can probably trust something I build myself out of TTL logic :P < 1306263630 591254 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's trusting yourself. < 1306263633 403484 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And write *all* the software yourself? < 1306263646 82533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you trust yourself not to make mistakes... congratulations! You're an idiot! < 1306263646 269033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't plug in a webcam. Never type anything you don't want the world to know. Blah blah blah. Basically if you don't trust anything you can't use a computer for anything. <-- 1) I don't even have a webcam 2) no comments ;) < 1306263666 140594 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that includes your email password. < 1306263673 982131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes indeed, what about formal verification < 1306263680 256996 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, an email account is out of the question if you don't trust anybody. < 1306263680 774335 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you rely on an external compiler, you get Trusting Trust. If you rely on an external anything *else*, you rely on the source code not being underhanded or poorly written. < 1306263687 918171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Coq could have a deliberate exploit. < 1306263694 463025 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you rely on yourself, you rely on your own perfection. < 1306263697 774534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well you have to consider what damage could be done if whoever you trusted was not trustable < 1306263697 889411 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such hubris, that. < 1306263703 590901 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course trusting that the authors of Coq is not exactly a hard thing to demand, but it's still trust. < 1306263713 239990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in this hypothetical we're trusting nothing. < 1306263715 505110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you rely on multiple external compilers, from different vendors < 1306263720 110737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use them to compile each other from source < 1306263729 69406 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not trusting anyone is definitely a mental illness. < 1306263732 989105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed, trust is like mathematics. You need to take something for given to do anything useful. < 1306263736 96168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gets rid of all trusting-trust situations that don't involve a huge conspiracy < 1306263738 154851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also completely precludes society entirely. < 1306263747 200262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have to trust an awful lot. < 1306263760 864277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes sadly < 1306263764 429612 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see also DDC < 1306263770 274373 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306263771 954199 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/) < 1306263780 582950 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1306263780 701475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But they could very well be working in a conspiracy. < 1306263788 947757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is that a different trusting-trust article from the famous one? < 1306263789 515891 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone actually stopped using computers after reading the Trusting Trust paper then ... < 1306263794 438260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know, they're alien as far as I'm concerned. < 1306263808 132117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trusting that there's no gigantic conspiracy is trust < 1306263814 627239 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plenty of people don't do it < 1306263826 984767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they've all made major failures of reasoning, but so does anyone who doesn't trust anything) < 1306263832 555652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, there are things I trust and things I don't < 1306263839 330706 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1306263844 613352 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :David A. Wheeler’s Page on Fully Countering Trusting Trust through Diverse Double-Compiling (DDC) - Countering Trojan Horse attacks on Compilers < 1306263848 379090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a phd dissertation < 1306263849 799393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lack of a massive conspiracy is more trustworthy than lack of a small conspiracy, for instance < 1306263852 364258 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.pdf < 1306263888 173327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can get a PhD out of that defence? I thought it was obvious < 1306263906 392749 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not as simple as what you said < 1306263914 83263 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, at a certain point you have to take the trustworthiness of *something* for granted, or give up on everything more advanced than a big stick and your own arm. < 1306263916 85112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1306263917 659292 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I linked to it, so you could read the summary < 1306263932 241851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have momentarily deluded myself into thinking you might actually click a link < 1306263970 899783 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could always Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V the page, but you seem to prefer I reword things in my own awkward words for some reason < 1306263982 311477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but how can you trust the stick to be a stick? < 1306263985 598246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1306263995 381362 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could easily bug a stick < 1306264016 817214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, fuck, solipsism. < 1306264034 696735 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well then. You can trust nothing but the existence of your own mind. < 1306264036 427506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, are you sure your mind exists then? < 1306264046 929890 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COGITO ERGO SVM < 1306264047 965559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you be so sure it isn't just an illusion < 1306264051 279475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COGITO ERGO SVM < 1306264069 702296 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the answer to that is obvious. < 1306264079 194414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, do you actually think, or do you just feel like you do. < 1306264082 736809 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the answer to that is obvious. < 1306264101 122612 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you are capable of asking that question, you are clearly thinking. < 1306264104 221814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, shut up, I'm being factitious here. :P < 1306264111 357054 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes but it's just stupid. < 1306264111 543781 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo, your mind must exist in some fashion. < 1306264122 583206 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that fashion *is* is, of course, debatable. < 1306264136 676845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1306264153 425661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly this conversion is kind of stupid < 1306264172 57071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, of course < 1306264244 338941 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: gtfi -minecraft < 1306264605 822064 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306264605 904037 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306264605 904189 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306264817 17416 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306265219 879225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that tcc was originally the C compiler submitted as an IOCCC entry < 1306265229 226790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aware of both of them, but wasn't aware that they were the same codebase < 1306265845 926586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCC? < 1306265885 58310 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306266228 169491 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a MSPA flash coming? < 1306266271 338845 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306266277 472637 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306266283 900088 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH is having computer problems < 1306266290 244410 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1306266304 253473 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306266464 738624 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TCC: Tiny C Compiler. < 1306266470 5033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By Fabrice Bellard. < 1306266484 198042 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : AH is having computer problems < 1306266494 966143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still unclear why he hasn't just bought a new one. < 1306266501 625797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shot the old one. < 1306266511 204050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I told you to read the Twitter so read the damn Twitter < 1306266520 351139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@andrewhussie < 1306266520 432910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrewhussie < 1306266520 515059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1306266520 596881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :buying a new one wont fix it this time, its software probs. < 1306266520 596946 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 May via web < 1306266539 304632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but I don't actually understand what the hell that means. < 1306266553 471565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be persistent across multiple machines? < 1306266575 920632 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he copies his drive over < 1306266597 877292 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, re-uses it, rather < 1306266603 872333 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is logical, since software licensing is incredibly painful and copying large work-in-progress files would take ages < 1306266607 118491 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually, I want to implement a NF interpreter sometime. This will include "networking" and implicit "IPC" (IPC in the sense of a localhost-localhost communication). Please, read my article again. There I have written that the SETUP of the connection has to be established by client and server which is running NF. Actually, I do know what these words mean, as I studied network technique 1 year in the University of Applied Sciences in Mannheim as part of < 1306266607 200217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : my Bachelor study of computer sciences. I do know how to use pipes, IPCs, shared memory, traps, rendevouz, mutexes and deadlock-free communications." < 1306266610 185873 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DON'T MESS WITH THIS GUY < 1306266615 513600 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE STUDIED NETWORK TECHNIQUES FOR A YEAR < 1306266620 997046 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT THE UNIVERSITY OF APPLIED SCIENCES IN MANNHEIM < 1306266626 722622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS PART OF A BACHELOR STUDY OF COMPUTER SCIENCES < 1306266633 960038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He will RUIN you with his knowledge. < 1306266798 462398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what is NF? < 1306266806 845322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crappy BF derivative. < 1306266816 694280 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetFuck. < 1306266820 203170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The creator seems to be touchy about it. < 1306266835 601540 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an utterly uninteresting, incredibly underspecified BF derivative whose creator is arguing its merits with PH on the wiki right now hilariously badly < 1306266840 780151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one which has a single static 2-way pipe between processes which he calls networking. < 1306266843 952467 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a Bachelor's degree in CS, your argument is invalid" < 1306266849 23821 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it is networking, with a single socket < 1306266856 764814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to be saying that interpreters have you set up the socket beforehand < 1306266864 74895 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupid, ofc < 1306266882 338648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so what does it add to bf, I mean, since Ook is still on the wiki it has to be more mediocre than that < 1306266912 633778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody wants it deleted < 1306266916 195419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook is vaguely tolerable due to novelty value and DMM armour. < 1306266916 884701 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH is just saying it's crap :P < 1306266928 440661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook is terrible, but it was, like, the first BF remapping. < 1306266929 384929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, dmm made ook!? < 1306266930 180470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's that. < 1306266937 62464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah okay < 1306266948 127430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/David_Morgan-Mar < 1306266950 41963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Piet. :p < 1306266959 617427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I know dmm made piet < 1306266968 513812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one BF remapping is clever < 1306266970 228469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more, not so much < 1306266979 954067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF derivatives wouldn't be so looked-down-upon if there weren't so many of them < 1306266981 82948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the thing about DMM is that his stupid languages are unapologetic jokes. < 1306266988 812451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is true < 1306267006 418698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm true. Ook does have a slight humour value < 1306267030 341401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NF, OTOH, seems to be meant as an actual exercise in programming. < 1306267045 726319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The creator Daniel Marschall announces a price for the person who implements < 1306267045 808258 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A NetFuck 1.0 interpreter < 1306267045 808425 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1306267045 808527 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comfortable "pong" game written in NetFuck 1.0 (Classic notation) < 1306267050 324766 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really tempted to ask what the prize is < 1306267070 766096 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a comfortable pong game with BF IO is impossible, probably he's assuming , works instantly < 1306267079 331061 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you have a link to the place where that guy wrote about his 1 year of CS study? < 1306267089 274137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: no no, one year of networking study < 1306267091 193606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:NetFuck < 1306267110 765921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc, to be fair, that was in response to me saying he didn't know what networking or IPC were. < 1306267163 908580 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be great if a static connection between two programs meant that you embedded an identifier of the program it's connected to in the source < 1306267172 147932 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then every instance of program A and B are connected to each other in the world, simultaneously < 1306267220 129195 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc, if you find it, can you link me up? < 1306267221 525590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should make a parody of stupid BF derivatives < 1306267229 306011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of < 1306267236 929296 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does my BF derivative count as stupid < 1306267267 46277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: probably, although I haven't seen it; statistically speaking, most are < 1306267290 25006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, was that the RLE one? < 1306267299 416037 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH, Yes < 1306267303 33781 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897, elliott_ just linked it < 1306267304 380588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was passively stupid. < 1306267325 421454 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"passively" stupid? < 1306267333 467432 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : we should make a parody of stupid BF derivatives < 1306267333 570661 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1306267333 681625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of < 1306267338 62339 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bf, but with the command meanings permuted < 1306267340 34104 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily < 1306267344 430489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of <-- that's deadfish. It is so stupid it is no longer turing complete. < 1306267348 857182 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that already exists :( < 1306267355 237825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: brilliant < 1306267361 910749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as always < 1306267364 350092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "passively" stupid? < 1306267364 869975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove <>[] < 1306267368 496646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even consider Deadfish a BF deriv < 1306267369 41665 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a squaring instruction < 1306267372 158563 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the wrapping broken < 1306267376 387627 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rename + and - < 1306267380 441990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus misinterpret . as decimal output < 1306267381 669835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remove , < 1306267382 325754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in it wasn't an interesting idea, but it didn't actually take *effort* to be stupid. < 1306267383 394763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's genius < 1306267387 216268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't we just remove ]? < 1306267387 520357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't before now but now I have to < 1306267392 2338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1306267394 491589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit above command substitution. < 1306267397 15411 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and then try and justify looping still being possible < 1306267398 292469 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just caught my attention, being a CS student myself.. one year teaches you sh*t < 1306267398 921638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't even consider Deadfish a BF deriv <-- yes it is, if you kind of squint and move your head back and forth < 1306267403 963077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a[b is obviously the same as a[b[a[b[a[b[a[... < 1306267450 773476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of Minimum < 1306267455 619714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of my favourite joke languages < 1306267458 393764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, another idea. bf with whitespace syntax. < 1306267489 300148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it just caught my attention, being a CS student myself.. one year teaches you sh*t < 1306267505 515370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I have not seen you before. < 1306267508 654296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU A NEOPAGAN < 1306267522 458434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a what < 1306267533 116710 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to google that < 1306267533 198548 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is actually one valid Minimum program, depending on how you interpret things < 1306267536 654290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite string of `s < 1306267540 14385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SECURELY LOCKED INTO THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY < 1306267545 232747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, it just hangs < 1306267552 83639 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who deleted my entry on the esolang wiki? < 1306267554 795481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there are multiple valid Minimum programs < 1306267555 610375 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: ais523 did. < 1306267572 683609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Minimum program is the application of one Minimum program to another, right? < 1306267575 347269 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, someone's not talking to you < 1306267582 625835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: (Deletion log); 18:21 . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (deleted "GNU Operating System": factually incorrect, not particularly interesting, and not an esolang) < 1306267586 108984 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone doesn't give a shit < 1306267613 317807 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's really hung up on it < 1306267625 67694 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1306267625 149858 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you deleted my entry on the esolang wiki? < 1306267639 215871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: the deletion log is public knowledge, you know < 1306267647 837245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, because there was no useful content there < 1306267649 783965 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i don't know how to access it. < 1306267654 458263 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you see you have to tell him you did so he can yell at you and waste your time. < 1306267660 103268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing Special:Log/delete is probably the easiest way < 1306267683 496383 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you think there was no useful content in there? < 1306267721 923648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: well, /was/ there any useful content in there? < 1306267732 609082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely observing that quines exist does not imply that something is an esolang < 1306267773 923719 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would you say the kernel shebang interpreter is not an esolang? < 1306267791 249934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just runs arbitrary executables < 1306267797 393603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, *tries to think of a haskell quine*. I guess you could do the usual way, but format strings simplify that quite a bit < 1306267799 115427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a) useful, and b) computationally uninteresting < 1306267802 611217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the opposite of an esolang < 1306267816 557128 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many websites are there that explain its workings in full? < 1306267873 331762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1306267876 422212 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​36) augur: pretty true. < 1306267918 939322 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i am asking because i believe the answer to that question challenges your notion that it's not an esoteric language. < 1306267937 543999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: quite a few, I imagine, because it is very simple < 1306267946 595284 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagination is not reality < 1306267951 963031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is if it's right < 1306267955 226508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINATION IS NOT REALITY < 1306267956 668282 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DREAMS ARE NOT REAL < 1306267959 17259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE WHAT YOU PERCEIVE < 1306267965 809335 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vortex is higher-dimensional mathematics < 1306267968 986226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't be bothered to find the relevant portion of the source code < 1306267994 795236 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, your imagination is not right. < 1306268015 527099 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really stupid way of saying "you're wrong" < 1306268017 307343 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just google for "shebang interpreter" and see how many tutorials you find that explain e.g. how parameters are parsed there. < 1306268020 81648 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a stupid thing to say to start with < 1306268023 566011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: you just made an unsubstantiated statement that something in particular did not exist on the internet < 1306268024 882309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody says "shebang interpreter" < 1306268030 667496 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1306268032 985239 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not. < 1306268034 827170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I invoke rule 35 on you right now, just to make you feel the implications < 1306268048 559066 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have said "quite a few", and i have said that that was wrong. < 1306268059 447490 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not quite a few" does not equal "none". < 1306268147 127043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a herp derp derp a derp derp derp derp < 1306268150 254687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp derp? herp < 1306268152 826187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :herp a derp a derp a derp < 1306268161 348128 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i believe that's a logically sound argument. what do you answer to it? < 1306268172 852047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: that your logic is very wrong (counterexample: INTERCAL) < 1306268173 784015 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :herpaderp-derp < 1306268188 409154 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, counterexample to what? < 1306268198 521126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, basically, that you're saying A! well, B might be relevant! You said C, but you're wrong, thus I win the argument! < 1306268202 205640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: deeeeeeeeeerp herp < 1306268211 387155 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does upgrading libc in ubuntu involve generating/compiling/herp-derping a million locales? < 1306268214 878786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and counterexample to B < 1306268216 450432 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really ais523. < 1306268222 52283 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why are you being distracted by an irrelevant argument, anyway? his page did not fully explain the "shebang interpreter" anyway < 1306268226 127777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you fill in the metasyntactic variables yourself, because they really don't matter < 1306268235 577974 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so his argument is dismissable from the start < 1306268238 817933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: because winning the argument three times is more fun than winning it once < 1306268243 880320 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :) < 1306268244 66418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've won it twice already < 1306268246 253354 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :herp_DERP.ISO-8859-7 will be so very useful for me < 1306268253 710640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: derp_HERP.HERP-DERP < 1306268254 284683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I lost it the third time, but that was a very pointless argument < 1306268260 497484 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is my argument: 1. an esoteric language is a language that is not widely understood 2. there are only very few widely known documents on this specific interpreter 3. therefore, it is not widely known 4. that makes it esoteric < 1306268260 645012 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Gold and silver are now legal tender in Utah. < 1306268264 561961 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I should keep a score card < 1306268271 818517 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this changes *nothing* but the herp and the derp. < 1306268277 200272 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: that is not a widely-accepted definition of esolang < 1306268286 302730 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, our frontpage directly contradicts it < 1306268289 645320 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so does wikipedia < 1306268292 72228 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, there's someone who's not talking to you < 1306268297 778526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: I disagree with 1 and 4, and I think 2 and 3 may also both be wrong < 1306268298 728681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An esoteric programming language (sometimes shortened to esolang) is a programming language designed as a test of the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, or as a joke." < 1306268320 588418 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as someone who would not accept gold for a debt is a complete moron) < 1306268327 144060 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: Nobody is talking to you; I'm sitting from the sidelines mocking you, and ais523 is apparently bored enough to try and humour you < 1306268335 406430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's definitely nothing so mutually intellectual as talking going on. < 1306268360 370122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you forgot to mention olsner < 1306268375 92520 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: olsner isn't talking, he's monologuing :) < 1306268377 730305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is pikhq_ < 1306268382 541847 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, also, at this point, me < 1306268382 651769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306268391 190050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_'s statements were interesting, but I have nothing to say in response to them < 1306268402 564688 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just herping the derps, don't mind me < 1306268407 326589 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My power is immense. < 1306268413 473055 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CONTROL THE UNIVERSE < 1306268428 138404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I mean to ask; what exactly does herp mean, and how does it differ from derp? < 1306268433 598841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually curious enough to look it up < 1306268438 923442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found explanations of derp, but not herp < 1306268443 139449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why would you even make that legal tender. < 1306268453 660107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Herp and derp are the two constituent components of herp derp. < 1306268457 316088 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because herp derp. < 1306268458 669275 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in other news, the sr_CS.ISO-8859-5@jekavian locale is broken < 1306268459 353797 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG THAT'S WHAT OUR WORST BF DERIVATIVE MUST BE < 1306268464 242087 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook, but with herp and derp rather than ook and punctuation < 1306268467 906924 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling that being in here long enough... < 1306268474 195622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: sorry about this < 1306268479 48915 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, programming the shebang interpreter is by definition hard, because it's not meant to be programmed in < 1306268481 159240 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: Rots the brain, indeed < 1306268489 108198 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sigh, you're aiming too low. < 1306268490 295265 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ralc: Especially when cheater's talking. < 1306268491 989026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: nor is MS Paint < 1306268511 318575 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you figured out how to computer-program ms paint, i'd applaud. < 1306268515 61536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, your MS Paint tic-tac-toe AI counts as a proof that esoteric programming can be done in Paint < 1306268520 115004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't prove MS Paint an esolang, ofc < 1306268523 735720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst BF derivatives are those that, in dbc's words, attempt to make a luxury car by sticking parts onto a skateboard. < 1306268529 764219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: he did. < 1306268536 326266 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then there you go. < 1306268536 874454 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone not talking to you herp derp < 1306268545 288163 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man what, you're talking to me sometimes?? < 1306268550 643715 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a quantum talking flag? < 1306268557 677506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think a separate term is needed for trying to use things not intended as programming languages at all as esoprograms < 1306268561 292932 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see you have a problem with tenses. are you sure you're british? < 1306268564 514677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And then remaking the skateboard out of herp derp. < 1306268565 139838 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an immigrant? < 1306268578 881938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went and implemented the same tic-tac-toe program in a variety of other programs I had lying around on the computer too < 1306268582 837405 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just jumped off the ship, elliott? < 1306268584 585732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as Powerpoint and WinHlp32 < 1306268586 363488 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: hmm, the fact that nobody actually wants to talk to you is now blatantly obvious to everyone watching < 1306268591 563581 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, either you're extremely dense, or a troll < 1306268600 766411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, but superfluous additions to the language that fail to understand minimalism are crucial to making the Platonic worst BF derivative. < 1306268603 678312 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I already expected both, so that doesn't actually prove anything either way conclusively < 1306268607 282047 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how did you implement it in there? < 1306268609 664772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I /think/ it was winhelp (16-bit)'s format, being implemented for backwards compatibility < 1306268613 930280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: it's not hard < 1306268624 268428 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that does not answer the question, though. < 1306268633 86126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... MS paint tic-tac-toe AI‽ < 1306268637 294983 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Link. < 1306268637 878058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you can express a tic-tac-toe solver as a finite state machine < 1306268649 539336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it was on filebin.ca, so is probably down by now < 1306268649 678112 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you make MS paint tic-tac-tie AI or programming the shebang interpreter? < 1306268651 195004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: spoiler: it works with the flood tool < 1306268654 845581 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and near-invisible wires < 1306268655 106671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can repost it on imgur or somewhere < 1306268663 20505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please do. < 1306268666 114925 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, do it < 1306268671 288259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imgur, perfect web host for Piet and MS Paint programs < 1306268678 603761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this file is so old its filename is in uppercase < 1306268680 745579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Beautiful. < 1306268691 870012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ll OANDX.BMP < 1306268693 175128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 599574 2003-11-04 01:05 OANDX.BMP < 1306268697 742155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The flood tool is actually fairly computationally impressive IMO < 1306268711 430513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue was getting rid of wire-crossings < 1306268732 52004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has the wire-crossing problem ever been conclusively solved? < 1306268733 953372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it hasn't < 1306268743 183775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah Gnome's file chooser is the most annoying ever < 1306268748 467032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, yes < 1306268760 317233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I tried, but gave up when I figured out I didn't actually know what the wire-crossing problem meant < 1306268765 458904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, both me and ais523 have come to the conclusion that it is so poorly-defined that it cannot be solved in any meaningful way. < 1306268786 244888 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is programming the shebang interpreter supposted to means? < 1306268801 253916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means next to nothing < 1306268803 55943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ip6xZ.png < 1306268812 592121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: caret < 1306268833 462599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, imgur's translating of it to .png will prevent it opening in Windows 3.1 < 1306268840 284697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although presumably more modern versions of Paint will be able to cope < 1306268842 953442 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes < 1306268899 552868 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not sure if there are actually theories that don't pertain to Lord English in that thread, but you should ask there anyway." < 1306268911 340161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ouch that border is ugly < 1306268924 82297 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: stop reading the worst forum :P < 1306268944 602480 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it the worst forum? Just because it's official in some sense? < 1306268957 213765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, you have not seen the things we have. < 1306268959 407146 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's the worst forum because it's the worst forum < 1306268966 527509 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, does it do perfect play? < 1306268966 674363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol < 1306268968 738934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so dramatic < 1306268971 544828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would this work with any fill tool? < 1306268984 582733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any with the same algorithm, ofc < 1306268995 546009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no, in that it doesn't always take an opportunity to win < 1306268998 204096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it never loses < 1306269029 875371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah it is because of the way X&O game works, it is possible to do this. < 1306269030 893770 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306269030 974969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any tool that changes the color of an area of constant color < 1306269033 854060 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a version where the wires etc. are difficult to see? < 1306269034 509360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: indeed < 1306269043 131665 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other games you might can't. < 1306269043 213494 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: that is that version < 1306269057 248789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: they were on a 640x480 screen on a computer with 4-bit color depth < 1306269066 855636 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1306269072 577146 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: This is for Win 3.1 colors. < 1306269088 148085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can see them anyway once they turn black < 1306269215 102049 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do more complicated things like that by using fiood fills that have a tolerance value? < 1306269253 600120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are a god among men. < 1306269256 801648 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ooh, interesting < 1306269258 648503 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1306269262 358778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would allow wire-crossing < 1306269271 749385 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had a tolerance of one < 1306269273 142862 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could have < 1306269274 328625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| < 1306269275 215710 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----- < 1306269275 755852 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| < 1306269280 740165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the two |s have colours two pixels away < 1306269283 444920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I experimented along those lines; I concluded it was probably possible, but failed to make anything interesting < 1306269285 433827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the +- is in between the two colours < 1306269291 938568 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allows wire-crossing < 1306269292 909899 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1306269301 85622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Burn worked along similar lines, IIRC < 1306269304 917789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't remember how < 1306269307 308270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't think it does... < 1306269312 583687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there's a problem, though < 1306269316 570570 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need /recursive/ tolerance < 1306269319 127087 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After it runs once the crossing is reset. < 1306269329 628513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's irrelevant, everything is once-only here < 1306269334 973005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e. it has to be tolerance relative to the last pixel you coloured < 1306269341 373942 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, a crossed wire can't cross on to another wire < 1306269341 848737 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1306269347 434924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, OK. < 1306269351 254018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: indeed < 1306269370 283516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that wouldn't work either < 1306269376 327512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the crossing wouldn't work at all < 1306269382 880607 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to MSPA forum horribleness? < 1306269440 422561 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the linux kernel has a special interpreter built in < 1306269462 936691 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it interprets the first line of scripts that you run as executables. the first line has the form of #!/bin/bash or something like that. < 1306269498 751783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: that is not a programming language interpreter < 1306269504 298297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs executables, that's it < 1306269504 399540 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: I know that. I think it has to start #! followed by the filename of the program, and a space and parameter and then a line feed < 1306269536 449074 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, kinda, yes < 1306269555 692003 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1306269573 169768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have to have +x permissions on the file. < 1306269659 317738 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, pretty much, yes, except for versions of unix where that's not the case. < 1306269694 805268 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise he's not going to listen to you no matter what you say? < 1306269708 541075 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does not run executables, just specific one < 1306269708 943842 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1306269775 258068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: In what versions of UNIX does it differ, and in what ways? < 1306269786 861667 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well you don't always have +x.. < 1306269877 637986 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306269978 181936 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: The Homestuck TVTropes page says- < 1306269978 331934 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: The TVTropes page is a joke." < 1306270181 647012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/execve.html (search for the "rationale" section) < 1306270211 272653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the reason that you yourself couldn't find a widely available description of shebang lines is that it is, in fact, not standardised, and merely a POSIX-sanctioned behaviour for running executables < 1306270214 618147 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :

RATIONALE

< 1306270221 22772 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have used an anchor :-) < 1306270225 664019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was wondering about htat < 1306270235 201634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't find any obvious way to determine what it is < 1306270237 158306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1306270241 703903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't want to check the source < 1306270253 116075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because the site uses frames < 1306270257 435739 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspecting the element works < 1306270261 713380 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both chrome and Firefox-with-firebug < 1306270267 252775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its source is pretty clean, though < 1306270277 389015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't want to load Firebug either < 1306270303 119640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, Firebug has a performance penalty < 1306270305 853830 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such silly browsers >:) < 1306270336 274857 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, many versions of the interpreter will not execute scripts as the embedded interpreter < 1306270368 951528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, where'd you get that quote from? < 1306270384 392022 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?37956-MSPA-Simple-Questions-Thread < 1306270402 476034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /msg ping. < 1306270486 984722 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /msg ping. < 1306270533 762273 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, scripts are executables too.. but those versions of the kernels will only execute binaries. < 1306270546 417299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: you lost the argument ages ago < 1306270547 961392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice, in fact < 1306270554 824535 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what argument < 1306270555 522709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not entirely sure why you're still trying < 1306270564 292977 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think i'm still going on with that argument? < 1306270578 572652 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit ill. < 1306270583 741024 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm not arguing, I'm just responding to counterarguments you're making." < 1306270585 527099 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you all right? < 1306270602 304864 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder who here /isn't/ mentally ill according to cheater < 1306270605 915547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just cheater < 1306270607 840709 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand erratic behaviour from elliott_, he's not really completely right in the head < 1306270647 968609 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, i think the set is {elliott}^c < 1306270674 932348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: i sent you a /msg < 1306270699 839364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes the powerset of elliott < 1306270701 520252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no real reason < 1306270713 93478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: it's {elliott, not elliott}) < 1306270714 143118 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1306270805 267375 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if you invested as much energy into being friendly as you do into being repulsive, we'd both be much happier. < 1306270841 375167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I've tried being friendly to you but it turns out you're too stupid < 1306270844 51908 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, either way, i agree with you that maybe that page doesn't belong on the esolang wiki. < 1306270855 83439 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, nope, you've never. < 1306270866 53075 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually, I was quite friendly to you when you first came here, so was everyone else < 1306270872 895692 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i think you're right there should be a place for this sort of thing < 1306270883 188036 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when on earth did ais523 say that? < 1306270908 391847 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, then you had a mental breakdown and picked a target, and becuase no one else wanted you to live it out on them, they just ignored it, and then went with it < 1306270930 664957 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. absolutely. this is definitely what you believe. < 1306270940 264855 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that conversation doesn't really belong in here. < 1306270945 769183 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does anything else you say < 1306270949 86969 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might as well < 1306270994 906639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God cheater897 you really suck. < 1306271010 604759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what /was/ that program you ran in B Nomic? < 1306271011 441317 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you somehow come up with an area on the esolang wiki to put the "usual" languages, i can populate it with "funny" behaviour in a few languages. < 1306271014 412858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember you did, but not what it did < 1306271016 579774 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The most eloquent message ever said. < 1306271023 726462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: That's not ais' decision to make and it doesn't belong on the esolang wiki. < 1306271025 535324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: I don't have the userrights to do that sort of thing < 1306271026 234246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's minimalist! < 1306271032 623793 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh ok < 1306271043 339091 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only person who could sign away their server space to being filled with your absolutely retarded ideas is Graue. < 1306271043 453869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if I could, wouldn't without Graue's approval, and especially not since the category debacle < 1306271058 640940 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Graue is somehow stupid enough to, though. Or maybe we'll fork and Timwi will be the new admin :-P < 1306271065 317780 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh alright. < 1306271072 343559 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the category debacle? < 1306271089 667317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's on [[Esolang talk:Categories]], but i can't remember < 1306271151 685570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey elliott_ you really suck as well come at me breakdownily bro. < 1306271179 577560 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I hate you so much. Totes. < 1306271182 664745 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legit hate going on here. < 1306271191 422335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate hate hate hate hate. < 1306271193 588008 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you mean this? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Categories < 1306271201 211220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: Put things about "funny" behaviour in a few "usual" languages in subpages of your userpages if it doesn't go with the normal stuff. < 1306271240 858552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater897: no, that's a blank page < 1306271254 521280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorisation < 1306271255 101144 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i know. what url did you mean then? < 1306271258 57230 :cheater897!~cheater11@ip-80-226-235-232.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1306271266 310465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I've remembered the name right < 1306271270 924039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't < 1306271280 603226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE ELLIOTT SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED HOOVER FILTERS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR ELLIOTT AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE. < 1306271289 717742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page does exist, I just can't remember where it is.. < 1306271290 667500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: z not s? < 1306271331 508617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is even more breakdown-relieving than cheater897 < 1306271333 859843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I possibly thank you < 1306271358 982457 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By dying. Also, dying painfully. < 1306271368 468423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sequence? < 1306271369 602584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hatey McHate the Hate. < 1306271376 506366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306271380 788023 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on it. < 1306271382 775130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you were right, it is indeed z rather than s < 1306271391 849663 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Americans running our wiki :| < 1306271420 264926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would have to die painfully about 200 times before I started not hating you. < 1306271426 422377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that page only hits the tail end of the debacle < 1306271427 74017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quick, rename it. < 1306271431 956102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAUE WILL NEVER KNOW < 1306271432 744035 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that posix page you linked is confusing < 1306271436 798552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applications that do not require to access their arguments may use the form: < 1306271436 908585 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(void) < 1306271436 990567 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as specified in the ISO C standard. However, the implementation will always provide the two arguments argc and argv, even if they are not used. < 1306271445 743948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two arguments will be provided that cannot possibly be accessed in any way < 1306271456 937292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's POSIX, did you expect it to make sense? < 1306271460 710223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, passing two arguments to a (void) function might even break some conforming C implementations, no? < 1306271465 114296 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of them, even < 1306271470 955902 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll corrupt the stack < 1306271478 882228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and main is special < 1306271495 877644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1306271514 101365 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's kind of a pity that MediaWiki makes a distinction between articles and categories (instead of, say, just having some sort of general "can-be-classified-under" association between articles.) What if I want to see a list of all languages designed by Gerson Kurz, for instance...?" < 1306271520 931827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to tell Chris Pressey about "what links here" six years ago < 1306271619 76071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the LHC! < 1306271640 547654 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Stux#Incident is the actual beginning of the categorisation drama < 1306271642 580718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The LHC can be used for any science whatsoever.) < 1306271649 383174 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although can it really be said to be drama if Graue is the only participant? < 1306271652 410636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Categorical Incident. < 1306271661 956965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was drama, and I think other people commented on it < 1306271662 65931 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, someone brave should add an {{unsigned}} template to that < 1306271664 497914 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since Graue wrote it < 1306271670 536452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone /very/ brave < 1306271678 490593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am brave. < 1306271681 250520 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, Graue's other comment < 1306271683 739039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ends with ~~ < 1306271691 387686 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Keymaker used ~~~~~ by mistake too later on < 1306271694 817363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such sloppiness < 1306271696 930479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well OK I am foolhardy but there's basically no difference. < 1306271715 547373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I appreciate your response Graue for replying to my post and explaining your actions (No offense, but Graue, could you sign your posts more often? It's taken me 3 months to realize that it was one of your replies posted here). < 1306271719 986443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: statements like that are also why you're not our leader < 1306271860 853245 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, do you think we have consensus for [[Category:Turning tarpits]]? < 1306271880 360231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a few days, if no one complains, I'll add the category." --Maharba in April < 1306271893 500098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think so < 1306271918 862154 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creates < 1306272016 198464 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :created < 1306272021 403170 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and added to appropriate pages < 1306272034 645003 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(→Incident - Add unsigned. Also, why does this thing demand a timestamp.) < 1306272041 379490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because you should include a template < 1306272042 405467 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1306272044 276133 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because you should include a timestamp < 1306272054 629337 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please fix it so I don't have to, I'm lazy :) < 1306272058 475006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes but I really can't be bothered checking the history. < 1306272060 812914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am lazier. < 1306272063 363379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I hate you. < 1306272069 738104 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, you do it < 1306272089 784194 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Stux&diff=2936&oldid=2935 < 1306272092 402731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue top-posts, too < 1306272108 862121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mediawiki that is a sin < 1306272141 374067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :email and Usenet, too < 1306272147 388252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another reason LQT is bad and people who like it should be shot. < 1306272152 16390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1306272152 98035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people top-post when emailing me, I edit their message into a bottom-post before replying to it < 1306272161 478702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, LQT? < 1306272165 791969 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I usually omit nested quotes < 1306272172 512300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually irrelevant/annoying in email < 1306272189 697245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so do I < 1306272196 642274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the case where they're relevant, I edit them into top-posts < 1306272201 486419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, crappy thing for thread management in MW. < 1306272236 643771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh? < 1306272252 105380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh an extension? < 1306272262 372685 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306272265 334399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explaining would derail the conversation pointlessly, so you might as well just Google it. < 1306272279 782089 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306272314 413569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pointless derails are what IRC discussions are mostly made of, aren't they? < 1306272355 201891 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if Graue upgraded the wiki. < 1306272366 245718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LQT SYMPATHISER < 1306272367 999721 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Vector would expose the trilime's horrible white edges. < 1306272372 420877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YET ANOTHER REASON TO HATE YOU < 1306272375 674744 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1306272406 666919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why do we have the trilime for the logo < 1306272417 587661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have asked that at least twenty times. < 1306272422 543382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, nope < 1306272424 784219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1306272429 773457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no more than 19 < 1306272432 193331 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't grep for "trilime" since I'm the only person who calls it that :P < 1306272441 845085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right, why then < 1306272501 9934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why what? < 1306272517 329105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone knows why < 1306272526 939090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why the logo < 1306272578 768198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask ais523, he's the one you normally ask. < 1306272587 30635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, eh why < 1306272596 565825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't be arsed to answer < 1306272599 137982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I ask you this time < 1306272606 35776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so far, he's statistically asked about Google's, YouTube's, and Apple's logos more often than Esolangs < 1306272619 527006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Firefox's < 1306272621 707888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have asked about apple's logo? < 1306272632 380254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I complained about firefox logo < 1306272633 687410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am so glad you are keeping track of this < 1306272634 488774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, mostly about the positioning on an iPhone-alike < 1306272644 67166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I wasn't, I'm just messing with grep < 1306272655 793144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so tell me about the esolang logo... < 1306272668 277351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume I have a short memory or something < 1306272674 1172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Haskell's too < 1306272678 884455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there isn't much to say < 1306272689 271984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, that's all? :P < 1306272694 794446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the official answer is "it's just an image Graue chose as a placeholder, and people decided they liked it" < 1306272717 355824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306272734 660202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it public domain? < 1306272748 786281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1306272757 270676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so, given that it's on the wiki, but I don't know for certain < 1306272759 352716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrrr I wish I still had the -- aha < 1306272763 813948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... no. < 1306272765 132872 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1306272766 63770 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1306272804 822554 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it. < 1306272805 503507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mca-ltd.com/martin/Ten15/introduction.html < 1306272859 538709 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The compilers were (loosely speaking) just functions from "text objects" to module values, and a module value was just a record containing the interface specification, and compiled data and function values. There were no such things as include files; if a program needed to link with a library, then (a capability to) the library's module value was simply inserted into the persistent "text object" holding the program's source." < 1306272880 600934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmed in Algol-68 except with first class functions. < 1306272881 828849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO COOL. < 1306272887 105183 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And OS GC. < 1306272985 247827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Algol but with first class functions? what was the syntax for declaring variables that held functions? < 1306272986 171781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is this @lgol? < 1306273281 708162 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CURSE IT WIKIA < 1306273316 493841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have you been randomly cursing Wikia lately. < 1306273331 781541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at < 1306273338 21224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you on the MSPA wiki and being driven mad by the interstitials? < 1306273340 722375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I have. < 1306273353 54132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the skin thing was the last straw for me < 1306273377 575447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still read it sometimes, but have a browser extension force it to monobook, and no longer correct mistakes I see on Wikia wikis < 1306273482 209920 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, more by my inability to just middle-click external links < 1306273494 807886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's extremely frustrating. < 1306273522 797794 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least right-click -> open in new tab works properly for me < 1306273538 89177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to make a Greasemonkey script to disable it, but it didn't work. < 1306273550 846790 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely remembers that his trackpad doesn't have a middle button, and that he < 1306273556 763832 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's been Ctrl-clicking < 1306273596 82402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine does, but I've been control-clicking anyway < 1306273597 370448 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: Algol but with first class functions? what was the syntax for declaring variables that held functions? < 1306273605 346706 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just let functions escape their closure thing < 1306273610 236483 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, same as declaring a nested one < 1306273610 891806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to middle-click, you have to simultaneously hold down both ends of the button bar, or else tap the top-right corner < 1306273614 878752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah, OK < 1306273657 364170 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I middle-click with three fingers FWIW < 1306273694 258091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the touchpad here can't detect that < 1306273701 778534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or the driver can't, but that seems less likely < 1306273713 362827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as it acts like a single-touch touchpad would if you put multiple fingers on it < 1306273727 860405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a proper middlebutton for my trackpoint, but not for the touchpad < 1306273736 107940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I use the touch pad < 1306273801 665015 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it doesn't work in OS X, but it does in Linux < 1306273875 744777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, how do you do it in OS X? < 1306274014 156593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1306274083 442899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: ::: < 1306274101 210850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1306274160 496777 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306274464 216009 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing samba will allow use of the gnome file sharing preference on ubuntu, right? < 1306274484 475937 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp164.akk.k-net.dk QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306274500 608903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to recommend apache, though < 1306274764 22537 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306275035 925146 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306275067 112434 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-215-14.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306275347 45699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306275843 774134 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1306276531 721972 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-54.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306276818 895586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1306276820 114065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306277061 103160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i used to really not understand filesystem organisation. < 1306277501 67732 :TOGoS1!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306277638 991100 :TOGoS1!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1306277873 734163 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching Samba shares: the slowest thing? < 1306277985 193920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306278023 539601 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :New post on the forum (and a reply by me) < 1306278066 812274 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUND THE ALARM BELLS < 1306278070 960476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Timwi asking how to contact Graue? < 1306278074 306360 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell is very cold today: DNF went gold. < 1306278081 399690 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1306278087 395302 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AND someone posted on the esolangs forum < 1306278090 89682 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more interesting than that :D < 1306278094 517023 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He's done that at least twice to my knowledge :P < 1306278096 955445 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hell is positively chilly, then. < 1306278098 812401 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even thrice. < 1306278110 383914 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although not much, if you already know this stuff) < 1306278132 682008 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder who's spreading such MISCONCEPTIONS < 1306278156 407375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses who is elliott_'s first suspect < 1306278178 131460 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it will almost certainly be out June 14. < 1306278178 335835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm who is my first suspect in your estimation < 1306278186 196968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, you mean the /real/ date of the rapture < 1306278188 967671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone was just off by a few < 1306278195 146866 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless some horrendous mishap occurs) < 1306278199 771685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUDDENLY EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE. < 1306278212 161968 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, the rapture will actually take up the true believers in Duke. < 1306278263 953514 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game will probably be inevitably shitty < 1306278288 571022 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't go that far. It *could* actually be decent. < 1306278297 204399 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-110.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It most *certainly* will fail to live up to the hype. < 1306278540 693740 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the rapture < 1306278566 185247 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is my old code :(((((((( < 1306278586 986641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits rotted < 1306278591 697342 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1306278596 845711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an important part of my childhood oerjan < 1306278628 999688 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306278629 336221 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well :P < 1306278629 506351 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty facetious < 1306278629 588385 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you couldn't tell < 1306278629 976697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1306278641 136334 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean < 1306278691 352585 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly part of my childhood insofar as I never bothered having one ;D < 1306278694 108190 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at < 1306278705 149370 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is with ais being emotional lately < 1306278729 433681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has? < 1306278737 318196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that was an example < 1306278740 370328 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306278742 597826 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:21: CURSE IT WIKIA < 1306278742 908654 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:56: Why have you been randomly cursing Wikia lately. < 1306278742 989789 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:11: Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at < 1306278745 793699 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought ais523 was Dr. Gears < 1306278751 973304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just ais expressing a standard anti-Wikia position < 1306278758 93454 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phrased in a humorous manner wrt Sgeo's line < 1306278769 799714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: note that ais isn't the one who actually cursed. < 1306278776 21087 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well he elaborated a bit < 1306278783 201436 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "CURSE IT" a curse? < 1306278786 498504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that's emotional < 1306278790 640923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: by ais' standards, probably < 1306278791 809994 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but i didn't recall him having that strong opinions < 1306278804 4933 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i've just not paid attention < 1306278807 926260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... doesn't seem strong at all to me :D < 1306278814 900029 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Aargh, curse Windows < 1306278818 607316 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why have you been cursing Windows lately. < 1306278819 166449 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there was that event the other day though < 1306278822 552390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Windows deserves it < 1306278826 290922 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what event? < 1306278847 497637 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I said "curse" it and not a word I wanted to say since I didn't want to offend ais523 < 1306278848 601200 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if I'm being dense < 1306278859 116540 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: he doesn't care about inanimate objects, AFAICT < 1306278862 763243 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed other people, much < 1306278873 105289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's if you curse him to eternal damnation that he gets paranoid < 1306278880 63751 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how dare you! < 1306278883 530862 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was it < 1306278899 255238 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:33:03: you mentioned SpectateSwamp in here? < 1306278899 405051 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:33:05: how dare you! < 1306278902 34990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously joking < 1306278913 980043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may not be obvious if you're not familiar with spectateswamp < 1306278923 368470 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed i am not < 1306278951 127602 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the rest of the conversation seemed to imply someone a bit nutty < 1306278977 140401 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bit" < 1306279098 353861 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember someone linked a site claiming he's the stupidest person in the world but that's it < 1306279133 124625 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306279208 39709 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE IS THIIIIS < 1306279261 193227 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the site itself or the instance of someone linking to it < 1306279269 440613 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you talking to yourself < 1306279335 643399 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myself < 1306279590 884128 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where ii2 thii2 < 1306279693 786913 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're now replacing the letter i2 with i2? Thii2 plan cannot poi2i2ibly be bad! < 1306279731 810259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the letter "is"? < 1306279735 261856 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i2/i2/i2/g < 1306279776 373636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's sollux's typing quirk < 1306279785 93606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i saved you from a long and probably cringeworthy explanation line you're welcome < 1306279798 502441 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you mean i2ollux? < 1306279811 84494 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2ollux < 1306279820 877718 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i might mean tholluckths < 1306279835 391421 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry [asterisk]tholluckth < 1306279839 242575 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, s/i/ii/g < 1306279843 453821 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s/2/g < 1306279912 225374 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just turned his message into "you mean ii2ollux", congratulations < 1306279945 561726 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognize that character at the start of your linei2, I2geo. < 1306279947 882597 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: you also forgot s//two/ but unfortunately most regexp engines don't have DWIM replacements so i will let it pass < 1306280075 876458 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306280543 878903 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thii2 remindi2 me of the problem with i2ubi2tituting i2ingle characteri2 in /// < 1306280571 575731 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'i2 irreveri2ible) < 1306280674 332837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop butchering the quirk ;_; < 1306280682 40167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little pang of pain pains inside me each time < 1306280706 210735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of Victor Borge's number incrementation < 1306280720 8793 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i butchering? < 1306280744 66706 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's one i gets replaced with ii < 1306280749 622485 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And s gets replaced with 2 < 1306280757 145360 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1306280763 312759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :2orry about that < 1306280766 460543 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gets replaced with two < 1306280780 736561 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound of "to", too < 1306280785 100925 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird how in some circumstances, it's indistinguishable from what you proposed < 1306280792 814712 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the "to" in "tonight" doesn't exactly sound like "too" but he still says twonight < 1306280794 535153 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1306280796 467164 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i arguing about this < 1306280797 962383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stupid < 1306280829 321496 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for with four, iirc < 1306280835 719987 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiirc < 1306280851 927508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i don't think so but i'll check < 1306280881 867002 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6kElOYcd8 < 1306280906 489668 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Nope, in fact he's never said four, not once < 1306280918 146901 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(grepped /four/ on http://mspaintadventures.com/?search=6_2) < 1306280936 686968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great waste of a minute there elliott < 1306280939 102796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i agree elliott < 1306280944 157341 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1306280945 622178 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1306280953 297935 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1306281020 358740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh perhaps it is in my documents < 1306281029 883984 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i am searching my _really_ old files) < 1306281116 336729 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling for "sollux" without adding something like "cartoon" doesn't work very well < 1306281138 447648 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the image hits on page two gave a clue < 1306281152 266122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it is the first link here < 1306281157 761383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sollux Captor - MS Paint Adventures Wiki < 1306281162 410629 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realise google personalises the results, but < 1306281172 770433 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306281187 79966 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Sollux_Captor < 1306281226 845811 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was 4th here, and somehow my eyes passed it because the "Captor" looked like the kind of thing you would add to the boat trademark that was my first hits < 1306281271 292808 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1306281285 221780 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's a norwegian boat company < 1306281338 111543 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use norwegian google? < 1306281339 944235 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.7 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it if so < 1306281357 566679 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well naturally < 1306281375 553864 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's the _only_ relevant hit on the first page