00:08:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:07 -!- _kiwi_ has joined. 00:30:41 -!- augur has joined. 00:32:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 00:36:38 *What the hell* is going on. 00:37:15 with regards to what? 00:37:24 xfwm4 is not starting. 00:38:04 oh 00:38:11 thought you meant something like terrorists 00:38:14 X-D 00:38:26 pikhq: xfwm4 sucks anyway :( 00:38:31 Because if you have click to focus on, then scroll-wheel focuses 00:40:28 "Of Lisp Macros and Washing Machines" 00:40:29 Stanislav. 00:40:30 Your titling. 00:40:33 It is ridiculous. 00:45:03 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:47:39 -!- _kiwi_ has left ("Leaving."). 00:48:54 Hmm. A fork of KDE3 is still maintained; *tempting*. 00:49:00 pikhq: oooh 00:49:03 what's its name? 00:49:10 trinity 00:49:50 I've talked to the maintainer of that 00:49:53 Seems nice enough :P 01:01:47 Tarkenenkohan minä ulkona näillä vaatteilla? 01:10:12 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:16:22 Fixed! 01:32:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:33:25 -!- Vorpal_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 01:51:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:52:56 -!- augur has joined. 01:54:43 -!- jcp has joined. 02:20:17 I win! 02:20:38 That reminds me way too much of a Christian song I heard once 02:20:45 Had a catchy rythm though 02:21:03 It does? 02:22:27 What Christian song? 02:23:06 I'm trying to find it, hold on 02:23:29 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Feather&curid=3601&diff=22891&oldid=20446 02:23:30 ... 02:23:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GRHiEbCKIE 02:23:46 (Warning: It's... very ... uh) 02:23:47 wiki just asked me to solve 92 + 0 02:23:50 hard 02:24:35 haha this is amazing Sgeo 02:24:50 Sgeo: No, I mean the title, not the video 02:24:59 "Live Free" 02:25:08 OK 02:25:29 thsi is amazing its so bad 02:25:44 Ha ha I win even more than "hemflit" 02:26:00 ...wat 02:26:06 oh anagolf 02:26:31 I think I like the musical sounds, even if the lyrics are a bit... creepy 02:28:04 elliott: Do you try? (O, wait, I think you can't, isn't it?) 02:28:23 zzo38: Try what? 02:28:35 Maybe you can win even more? 02:28:42 Why couldn't I? 02:28:58 Seems I'm rank 129. 02:28:58 Because some of the keys on your computer are broken? 02:29:00 (defun rebəl () (take-too-seriously 'bible)) 02:29:11 zzo38: I can insert digits in other ways, it just takes a little longer. 02:29:23 OK, then perhaps you can. 02:29:32 I've mostly skipped anagolf lately because the challenges have been boring. 02:29:50 And I mean the Deadfish challenge to be specific, that is the one I win at AWK 02:30:22 However I did not win at C but maybe I can try harder and see if I can eventually win, or maybe not 02:31:25 And if you think some of challenges have been boring, then make a new one if you know how to make something more interesting 02:32:53 Can you win at Forth? 02:37:44 On the plus side, he argues against Philisophical relativism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zBcXKVaFg8 02:42:02 He attempts to blow off secular humanism in a similar way :/. That argument was clearly crap, maybe his argument against relativism is similarly crap? 02:42:04 Hmmm 02:44:29 Is there musical TFM format? If not, maybe I can invent it same as normal TFM format, just with different meanings for the font dimension parameters and so on 02:55:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:01:56 -!- augur has joined. 03:04:39 -!- ralc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:11:57 It is so, so very freaky talking to my dad now. 03:12:19 hmm? 03:12:27 It takes immense self-restraint to not just shout "Your very premises about reality are demonstrably wrong!" 03:12:37 I feel that way too 03:13:21 Made worse by how I have yet to even say that I'm an atheist to him, for fear of never hearing the end of it from everyone around me. 03:15:22 My father is atheist 03:15:51 -!- ralc has joined. 03:16:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:16:14 My father is a fundamentalist Christian, and believes in a loving, omnipotent, smiting deity. 03:16:30 Yes, benevolent and smiting. 03:17:39 Also, he's a young-earth creationist. 03:17:48 eugh 03:18:32 my whole family is catholic (but im atheist) 03:19:07 Very hard to believe that considering the gigantic towers of evidence in favor of an old, *old* Earth in an even older universe. 03:19:26 I'm more annoyed my my step-mom's insistance that I only date Jewish girls, that I go to Israel for some time, etc. 03:19:50 Sgeo: "I refuse to reside in an apartheid state." is the proper answer to the latter. 03:21:15 * Sgeo vaguely attempts to get Chicken Scheme working 03:21:31 I _still_ haven't settled on a LISP-family language 03:23:34 -!- ralc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:24:16 you don't have to settle on one, do you? 03:24:22 just learn a bunch of them 03:24:54 I'm not writing 3 AW SDK bindings for 3 similar yet different languages... 03:25:04 * Sgeo gets shot by everyone in this channel. 03:26:07 切腹して！ 03:26:16 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 03:26:25 * Sgeo doesn't know whether to curse XChat or Windows 03:26:33 Both. 03:27:16 * Sgeo would like a Linux distro with a working battery meter on this computer -- i.e., doesn't break when I don't deactivate ACPI (or is it ACIP, or APIC, I can never remember?) 03:27:52 I didn't know battery meters were coupled with distros 03:28:03 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:28:10 are you insane or have you only tried sucky distros 03:28:29 pikhq, kanji. ;-; 03:28:56 I'm assuming that distros are somewhat coupled with "Does ACPI work or will the OS fail to boot if I don't deactivate it?" 03:30:02 Lymia: Oh, boohoo. Only take you a month or two of dedicated study. 03:30:12 and why would acpi not work 03:30:15 I'm not good at becoming dedicated. 03:30:15 :[ 03:30:17 Lymia: But lemme transcribe that for you. 03:30:22 Lymia: せっぷくして！ 03:30:26 and is that even a distro problem 03:30:34 monqy: Kernel problem. 03:30:38 yeah that's what I thought 03:30:39 Or BIOS problem. 03:30:44 that too I guess 03:30:47 "wget: command not found" 03:30:59 * Sgeo angers in MinGW's general direction 03:31:12 ACPI is one of the few cases where the BIOS has *any* influence on the system after the boot sector has been loaded into memory. 03:31:13 Guess we know why it says "Min" now. 03:31:17 (on a modern system) 03:31:55 Sgeo: Why would it have wget? MinGW itself only really has a GCC port and headers, and msys only has enough of a POSIX system to get the GNU build system to work. 03:32:04 Sgeo: could you get a fancy kernel to fix your problem 03:32:17 monqy, if I had any idea how.. 03:32:28 Or what, exactly, I'm looking for, besides "Works" 03:32:41 maybe if you told google your problem 03:32:54 monqy: What he'd want to fix his problem is a large quantity of troubleshooting. 03:33:17 The solution that I found a while ago was to disable acpi. 03:33:18 And, given that he's got a failure to boot, it seems plausible he'd need a kernel debugging setup to make any meaningful progress. 03:33:29 acpi=off or was it noacpi 03:33:34 acpi=off. 03:34:16 -!- augur has joined. 03:39:41 Made worse by how I have yet to even say that I'm an atheist to him, for fear of never hearing the end of it from everyone around me. 03:39:57 pikhq: "I don't really feel very religious" is an easier way to phrase it I think 03:40:13 There's some anathema in America to the word "atheist" that seemingly isn't associated with actually being an atheist, just identifying as "atheist" 03:40:21 People in #math seem to be assuming that everyone that comes in there is a genius, and fail to realize that someone who asked a question may not realize a subtely in their response 03:40:23 Also, he's a young-earth creationist. 03:40:26 Oh. Then you're fucked. 03:40:41 I'm more annoyed my my step-mom's insistance that I only date Jewish girls, that I go to Israel for some time, etc. 03:40:41 Sgeo: "I refuse to reside in an apartheid state." is the proper answer to the latter. 03:40:42 ++ 03:41:18 "wget: command not found" 03:41:19 * Sgeo angers in MinGW's general direction 03:41:25 mingw is a gcc port, not a posix library 03:41:44 People in #math seem to be assuming that everyone that comes in there is a genius, and fail to realize that someone who asked a question may not realize a subtely in their response 03:41:51 probably they realise it's not the case but don't give a shit. 03:42:18 and nobody in #math will be a genius. well maybe a few people. but the standard for genius is quite high. 03:42:30 unless you mean they're not geniuses but assume the askers are geniuses 03:42:37 which could only manifest as... grovelling? 03:42:43 No, sorry 03:42:45 Not what I meant 03:42:49 grr dog 03:43:15 *Ahahahah*. 03:43:29 pikhq: ? 03:43:29 My processor has the following serial number: "To Be Filled By O.E.M." 03:43:41 Nice :D 03:45:10 Also, it's pretty insane the amount of information hwinfo can get. 03:45:24 I am literally looking at an enumeration of the ports on the back of my computer. 03:46:10 With their types, the internal header they're soldered to, the external label, and the type of socket it has. 03:46:48 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:48:39 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:51:29 Hm... 03:51:46 Is it possible to override a password in the CMOS if you have root access? 03:52:25 Do you mean "possible" or "feasible"? 03:53:10 Both would be interesting. 03:53:25 "Feasible" I doubt. 03:53:51 But "possible", most certainly, *if* you have some way of executing code in the kernel (via modules or /dev/kmem) and a flashable BIOS. 03:54:17 "Simply" flash the BIOS from the kernel. 03:54:39 Thereby adding executable code to the BIOS that will override its password check. 03:55:30 Lymia, it's certainly possible to read it... 03:55:54 At least for some BIOSes 03:56:20 And if you can read it, surely you can change it in the normal way? 03:56:36 (Note: I've done the reading bit before, on a 2000 era computer though) 03:57:46 hmm, i want to implement an esolang 03:58:34 elliott, implement BrainFuck++ 03:58:41 It's BrainFuck, except with an additional command ? 03:59:02 It reads a Brainfuck program from tape, until it finds a null byte, and sets that null byte to 0 if the program halts, or 1 if it dosn't. 03:59:17 Define "Windows" person 03:59:17 well, in this case, someone who would know what to do after attempting to reset a Windows 7 password failed and resulted in the system endlessly rebooting 03:59:19 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:59:40 Sgeo, what did that person try? 03:59:44 (to do) 04:00:00 clearly i shouldn't have disabled SYSKEY using chntpw on a Windows 7 system 04:00:05 Oops, forgot to redact their nick 04:00:09 elliott, implement BrainFuck++ 04:00:10 It's BrainFuck, except with an additional command ? 04:00:10 It reads a Brainfuck program from tape, until it finds a null byte, and sets that null byte to 0 if the program halts, or 1 if it dosn't. 04:00:10 *wince* 04:00:12 So it's like Spoon but not as fun. 04:00:20 Sgeo: HAHAHAHA NOW I WILL FIND THEM 04:00:21 HUNT THEM DOWN 04:00:22 AND KILL THEM 04:00:28 Why do they make programs that require a lot of other dependencies and so on to make it work, even when it could be done in a different way that can work otherwise? 04:00:32 Dammit, not on freenode. 04:00:35 zzo38: Laziness. 04:00:41 Lymia, are you capable of helping em? 04:00:55 zzo38: Alternately, personal taste. 04:00:57 *shrug* 04:00:58 zzo38: Quite often bad. 04:01:08 Not unless I tell them to write "reinstall" 04:01:11 tell them to* 04:01:22 * Lymia has no idea how she wrote what she did 04:01:31 He sounds like an idiot, let's not help him. 04:01:44 ~SOCIAL DARWINISM~ 04:02:09 He sounds like an idiot, let's kill him and eat his flesh. 04:02:21 ~CANNIBALISM~ 04:02:23 I like this plan 04:05:29 pikhq: You're still on Debian testing/Xfce, right? 04:05:32 I'm distroshopping. 04:05:38 Can't stay on old Ubuntu forever. 04:07:17 elliott: I am. 04:07:33 elliott: Gentoo 04:07:49 O.o 04:07:55 NihilistDandy: I'm sorry -- I can't type coherently over how hard I'm laughing. 04:08:05 lol 04:08:07 Gentoo seems to have serious issues with maintaining reasonable levels of QA on their packaging. 04:08:08 But I think I'll let the actual Gentoo deconvert (pikhq) handle this one. 04:08:32 I'm aware. I only used Gentoo briefly 04:08:35 :-P 04:08:37 I just enjoy the reactions :D 04:08:49 There's exactly one thing that would cause me to give Gentoo a shot -- if they supported non-standard configurations. 04:08:53 You can't have a non-glibc system with Gentoo. 04:08:56 LFS is clearly superior~ 04:08:58 You can't have a statically linked system with Gentoo. 04:09:07 elliott: s/can't have/can't have anymore/ 04:09:09 So what the fuck is the point?!?!?! 04:09:32 uclibc Gentoo ceased to be maintained in 2005, sadly. 04:09:38 pikhq: Debian isn't frozen right now, right? 04:09:48 Debian just came out of a feature freeze. 04:10:00 It'll be another year or two before another one. 04:10:01 "Just"? Is wheezy out? 04:10:08 Squeeze came out a while ago, dude :P 04:10:12 No, squeeze just came out in March. 04:10:15 ... 04:10:16 Wow. 04:10:16 Really? 04:10:19 Yeah. 04:10:22 God, my perception of time is fucked. 04:10:49 For some reason days are much longer right now. Not in the sense that they drag on, just in the sense that fucktons happen in a day. 04:10:58 Also, it seems *likely* that wheezy will see the introduction of a fourth Debian branch. 04:11:03 rolling. 04:11:07 Really? 04:11:09 Fuckin' A. 04:11:21 So it'll be between testing and unstable? 04:11:27 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:11:30 Because that would be sooo sweat. 04:11:31 ... 04:11:31 sweet. 04:11:33 Which is, as you can imagine, intended to be an end-user rolling release system. 04:11:35 It wouldn't be sweat at all. 04:11:44 pikhq: Thus obsoleting Gregor's precious distro ;D ;D ;D 04:12:33 It's still debated how best to *do* this, but they seem to be based *around* starting with testing's practices of importing packages from unstable after a few days/weeks. 04:13:03 And, obviously, not being affected by freezes for stable. 04:13:09 pikhq: So where would that leave testing? Updates from rolling trickle down except when in a feature freeze? 04:13:11 Or, would it be: 04:13:25 Rolling comes from testing, but when testing is frozen, the testing policy is applied to sid, to pull updates into rolling? 04:13:41 i.e. when testing is frozen, the sid->testing trickle-down policy switches to trickling-down into the agape mouth of rolling. 04:13:46 Wow, that sentence went horrible half-way through. 04:13:47 Those are two different plans. 04:13:53 Ah. 04:13:56 Any others? :P 04:14:12 Another is to make testing be a release that only comes into existence for the sake of preparing a stable release. 04:14:24 Forked from rolling, of course. 04:14:57 Still *another* is to make a monthly Debian release. 04:15:30 And yet another is to reform processes so the freeze for release is really short. 04:15:50 One might wonder whether the freeze actually helps. 04:16:05 Would simply snapshotting testing regularly produce a lower-quality stable series? 04:16:28 The freeze seems to be behind very odd choices like having a hybrid of two GNOME versions in the default install. 04:17:31 They usually have a decent number of release-blocking bugs in testing. 04:18:24 Right, but maybe their perception of release-blocking bugs sucks :) 04:18:43 I mean, testing isn't exactly problematic to run as your workstation OS, even if you need things not to break. 04:19:11 Think "broken updates". 04:20:02 Well, yeah. 04:20:10 Still, I can't imagine a freeze needing longer than a few weeks. 04:20:13 If done properly. 04:20:30 Hence the "reforming process" proposal. 04:20:39 Right. 04:21:48 COME TO ME PRECIOUS DEBIAN TESTING NETINST ISO. 04:22:09 pikhq: I still find it hilarious that you can run the latest Debian on a four-eight-siz. 04:22:09 six. 04:23:45 * Pure [[Unlambda]], Unlambda without the `i` combinator and all IO operations, and lazily-evaluated data structures are used to define IO. For example, the Unlambda encoding of `[[1], (\x. [[2, x], 0])]` will be the [[cat program]] (1 means read line, 2 means print). 04:23:48 way to reinvent lazy k badly 04:23:57 Likewise with Slackware. 04:24:18 pikhq: Yeah, but Slackware is old-school. 04:27:07 Hmm, Debian's automatic Xfce install is pretty "bloated", isn't it? IIRC it included a load of rubbish programs I didn't care about... 04:27:12 I'll just install Xfce manually after the fact. 04:30:59 I dunno; I installed the base distro and then added packages from there. 04:32:04 * elliott considers refusing to use any timezone that isn't UTC. 04:32:06 Is Chicken Scheme a reasonable language for implementing esolangs? 04:32:43 Shut up shut up shut up. 04:32:55 updog? 04:35:11 "Immortality notwithstanding, I'm not going to live forever, you know." 04:36:47 True by law of excluded middle. 04:37:18 I'm not sure the context would grant such a law; how restrictive and all that. 04:37:49 "I either will or will not be immortal" seems a restatement of that. 04:38:28 Stop questioning the statements of an omniscient being. 04:38:37 Foolish Debian installer, why would I want to create an ext[four] partition? 04:38:38 JFS exists, you know. 04:39:16 You consider ext4 to suck, I take it? 04:39:45 Well it doesn't suck. 04:39:50 But JFS is pretty much the best filesystem. 04:39:52 * Sgeo donates some number row keys 04:39:57 And ext4 is only a temporary measure. 04:40:03 12334567890#$%^&*()_+-= 04:40:03 It's obsolete by design in favour of btrfs, an Oracle-controlled clusterfuck. 04:40:16 Whereas JFS is in the trustworthy hands of ... uhhhh ... IBM. 04:41:26 -!- HolyBlood^AFK has joined. 04:41:41 AFK people are now joining channels. This is scary. 04:42:19 I prefer to write programs that require few or no dependencies and can work mostly or entirely by itself. 04:42:20 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliott|afk. 04:42:23 I don't know what you're talking about. 04:43:01 I smell NIH syndrome. 04:43:02 zzo38, I can imagine that that might be diffcult in some circumstances. What if you really needed to use, say, sqlite? 04:43:20 Lymia, zzo38 bathes in NIH syndrome 04:43:23 Sgeo: Yes there are some circumstances in which other things can be useful to include. 04:43:28 Or, y'know, a kernel :P 04:44:28 pikhq: BTW, the universe lasts a finite length of time, so it's actually true that the one saying it is both immortal (will live as long as time does) and won't live forever. 04:45:17 Like, in case of TeXnicard, its only dependency (other than the standard C stuff) is LodePNG, which is a single module, has no other dependencies, and is statically compiled into the program. 04:45:51 My policy on dependencies is "use it as long as you arn't adding too much size for too little functionality" 04:46:08 External utility programs for TeXnicard might or might not be like this; it depends on the program; other people can write according to what is good that way. 04:46:22 Lymia: do you say "arn't" frequently? I seem to have this idea that you do, but I'm not actually sure of that. 04:46:40 Lymia: Yes. Even in LodePNG there is few functions and it is possible to disable some of them before compiling (which, in fact, I did disable some of the functions I didn't need, before compiling). 04:47:18 I'd imagine that sqlite in particular would be about on par with LodePNG in zzo38's willingness to actually include it. 04:47:30 but sqlite is, like, four megs of source ;D 04:47:33 or was it binary... 04:47:37 Source. 04:48:05 The .so is 636k. 04:48:06 -!- HolyBlood^AFK has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:48:11 i.e. smaller than libc. 04:49:53 I like debian-installer's flexibility. 04:50:04 You can even make it install lilo for you. 04:51:15 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Esolang:Sandbox&diff=22857&oldid=22850 04:51:23 oerjan, tirelessly reverting vandalism of the sandboz 04:51:24 sandbox 04:51:26 I also usually make a program which is in a single module 04:51:27 Yeah; very, very rarely will you need to install via debootstrap. 04:52:27 I don't think there is much need to revert vandalism in the sandbox because it is only for testing anyways and whoever types a message next can delete the spam or whatever else is already there 04:54:10 I can tell you LodePNG is 280764 bytes of source (the source also includes documentation), and the .o file is 44011 bytes (when ANCILLARY_CHUNKS, UNKNOWN_CHUNKS, and ERROR_TEXT are disabled). The author of that program has also done some work with esoteric programming although that is irrelevant for purposes of LodePNG. 04:56:22 zzo38: The reason I suspect you'd be more willing to use sqlite than most programs is that it's both a relatively small library and so very, very functional. If you need a transactional database in your program (which, admittedly, seems like something you'd avoid), then sqlite is pretty much exactly what you want. 04:56:59 I'm really digging the debian-installer colour scheme... that's... why am I digging it. 04:57:47 -!- elliott|afk has changed nick to elliott. 04:58:28 pikhq: Well, yes. In most programs I do not need a database, although I could use it if it is necessary to have a transactional database. 05:03:13 happy four birthday Sgeo 05:03:25 What. 05:03:27 And I cannot figure out how to shorten my C code implementing Deadfish, any more than it is. (At least not yet.) 05:04:02 elliott, what? 05:05:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:05:54 Sgeo: happy four birthday 05:06:13 Did I enter esoteric for the first time 4 years ago, or something? 05:06:17 What is happy four birthday? 05:06:20 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:07:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:07:48 zzo38, rewrite it in Perl 05:07:48 elliott, did you grep for Sgep too? 05:08:57 Lymia: Yes, it can do Perl code golf too. My AWK code is shorter it is 39 bytes long, so I am good at that one, but at C, I didn't manage to shorten it. Rewriting it in a different programming language doesn't solve it; it just solves it for a different programming language. 05:10:01 (Actually the current best Perl submission is 55, the best AWK is 39 (me; the other one is 40), the best C is 77 (mine is 81). 05:10:45 Sgeo: sgep birth helo 05:10:49 four 05:11:03 Lymia: *You* rewrite it in Perl if you are good at Perl to do it. 05:11:08 ? 05:11:18 zzo38, you missed the joke. 05:12:32 elliott, http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2005-12-27 05:12:37 I'm there 05:12:48 four birth 05:13:08 I am not four years old. 05:13:40 But I assume you were in the past, isn't it? 05:14:32 Lymia: Are you good at Perl, though? 05:14:50 Yes, 1983-1984 05:15:02 Wait, no 05:15:09 1993-1994 05:15:17 zzo38, don't really know the language. 05:15:33 Didn't exist in 1984 05:15:40 I don't know much of Perl either, really 05:17:28 Nor do I know much of Objective-C other than that it is a strict superset of C (meaning when I send the C codes to the code golf, I also send it as Objective-C as well and it will work) 05:19:55 def deadfish(c):import re,sys;exec"i=0;"+"".join({"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"sys.stdout.write(str(i)+'\\n')","s":"i*=i"}[x]+";"for x in re.sub("[^idos]","",c)) 05:19:59 Python deadfish golf! 05:20:34 Lymia: You can send submissions to http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish 05:21:01 exec is denied? 05:21:01 :[ 05:21:35 Yes, except for shell scripts. And you can execute a single external program when using vi. 05:22:17 Shell scripts (Bash, fish, Zsh) always allow executing external programs, even if it says "exec is denied". 05:22:19 "YouTube account Irratonalys has been terminated because we received multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including: 05:22:20 CBS 05:22:20 CBS 05:22:20 CBS" 05:23:53 zzo38: "a single"? 05:23:57 Like, only once, or only one program? 05:24:30 elliott: Only one program, and can only be executed once. 05:25:24 Weird. 05:25:28 Well, you can also call the shell in order to make that one execution, I guess. 05:25:44 I'm not so sure "exec is denied" applies to Python's "exec" statement though, since it just runs Python code, not external programs. (Admittedly it can run code from file with it.) 05:27:05 Though... 05:27:22 I'm sure there are shorter methods than compiling deadfish to python. 05:27:24 Actually. 05:27:40 fizzie: Can it? 05:27:45 I thought only execfile could do that. 05:27:52 def deadfish(c):import re;exec"i=0\n"+"".join({"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x]+"\n"for x in re.sub("[^idos]","",c)) 05:27:55 Or do you mean exec open(...).read()? 05:28:00 In which case that hardly counts. 05:28:21 Lymia: for a start, s/\n/;/ 05:28:46 elliott, it's shorter with the \n 05:28:47 Lymia: The problem does not require compiling Deadfish, it only requires providing the correct output when the Deadfish commands are given in input. 05:28:48 -!- augur has joined. 05:28:52 Then I can use "print i" instead of "sys.blahblah" 05:28:59 So, interpreting can also work even if it is not compiled. 05:29:16 Wait, no. 05:29:19 You can use print i; like that. 05:29:30 def deadfish(c):import re;exec"i=0;"+"".join({"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x]+";"for x in re.sub("[^idos]","",c)) 05:29:31 Yeah. 05:29:33 I was confused. 05:29:42 def deadfish(c):import re;exec"i=0;".join({"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x]+";"for x in re.sub("[^idos]","",c)) 05:29:44 You can do that too. 05:29:54 Why not put ; before every statement? 05:29:57 Then you can change i=0; to i=0 05:30:02 (Instead of after.) 05:31:11 .... 05:31:12 Uh. 05:31:14 I would think that "exec is denied" does not apply to the Python "exec" command from what I can see the way it is being used. (But still, like I said, this would not be the same as that problem anyways) 05:31:17 join does not do what I think it does. 05:31:35 import urllib2;exec urllib2.urlopen("someaddress").read() 05:32:00 Lymia: Some system calls are denied. Including all internet access. 05:32:45 def deadfish(c):import re;exec"i=0"+"".join(";"+{"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x]for x in re.sub("[^idos]","",c)) 05:32:58 Is there a shorter way to remove all other characters than re? 05:34:46 I don't know very well of Python, even though I have done some things in Python (some solitaire card games, and modifying a script for wiping hard drives) 05:36:04 elliott: I mean exec open(...); if you give it an open file object, it parses it as Python code until EOF and executes. 05:36:15 fizzie: Oh, right. 05:36:58 pikhq_: Hey ho, testing is broken right now. 05:37:05 def deadfish(c):exec"i=0"+"".join(";"+{"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x] if x in"idos"else""for x in c) 05:37:09 Shortest I can get it right now. 05:37:31 def deadfish(c):exec"i=0"+"".join(";"+{"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}[x]if x in"idos"else""for x in c) 05:37:35 No wait, missed a space 05:39:49 Wouldn't .get(x,"") be much shorter than [x]if x in"idos"else"" ? 05:40:22 You can do that? 05:40:26 OK 05:41:00 def deadfish(c):exec"i=0"+"".join(";"+{"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}.get(x,"")for x in c) 05:41:02 elliott: Balls. 05:41:16 Would an interpretive approach be shorter than the code generation method? 05:41:22 exec"i=0"+"".join(";"+{"i":"i+=1","d":"i-=1","o":"print i","s":"i*=i"}.get(x,"")for x in __import__('sys').stdout.read()) 05:42:14 ... 05:42:15 Yeah 05:42:26 Not going to work. 05:42:32 That is, not using code generation. 05:42:36 Best way I can think of. 05:42:41 lambda:i=0 isn't valid Python 05:42:47 For some reason 05:43:13 Lymia: BTW, you need to handle wrapping. 05:43:20 elliott, wrapping? 05:43:33 Yep. 05:43:40 That's yet another Scheme in my possible choices 05:43:46 Try submitting to the anarchy golf. (I do not believe the "exec" command in Python is disallowed) It is not endless problem, it has deadline, so post it (I suggest always selecting "open code statistics") and it is revealed in 11 days (you can continue sending after the deadline, too) 05:43:49 What do you mean? 05:43:51 Maybe 05:44:01 Lymia: Less than one or equal to two five six = set to 0. 05:44:32 I thought deadfish didn't overflow. 05:44:38 * Sgeo rapidly decides that "integrated Emacs-like editor" isn't worth... its.... incompletenessness 05:44:40 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish 05:44:49 Lymia: that lambda won't work because in Python assignment isn't an expression, and lambdas are single-expression functions 05:44:52 Lymia: It does. 05:44:59 Sgeo: What is it? 05:45:01 MIT Scheme? 05:45:13 Yes 05:45:19 Sgeo: How is MIT Scheme incomplete? 05:45:21 elliott, http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Python < This suggests otherwise for me 05:45:31 Lymia: 05:45:31 if accumlator == 256 or accumlator == -1: 05:45:31 accumlator = 0 05:45:33 Apparently you are blind. 05:45:37 oh rcap 05:45:39 crap* 05:45:40 No module system currently 05:45:53 Sgeo: there are portable module systems. 05:46:55 Hmm, Chicken's hash tables are pulled from an SRFI? 05:47:01 "Pulled from"? 05:47:04 You mean they adhere to a standard. 05:47:07 Yes 05:47:36 Whereas, Racket's... don't 05:48:34 Racket isn't a Scheme. 05:48:39 Why should it be expected to conform to SRFIs? 05:49:06 ...I'm not entirely sure I understand what exec is being used for. 05:49:41 generating Python code in python and executing it immediately is pretty much the same thing as writing an interpreter in Python, except less efficient. 05:50:05 Firstly, it's likely to be more efficient, if anything. 05:50:15 Secondly, the important thing is the size of the code, not the speed. 05:50:31 I should try both in ... a lisp 05:50:36 * Sgeo is still on the fence 05:51:22 I disagree with your efficiency claim, but if it's not important for whatever is trying to be accomplished I won't debate it. 05:52:17 CakeProphet: How is an interpreter less efficient than a compiler here? 05:52:41 * Sgeo also notes Gambit 05:52:47 The comparison is basically null without any kind of control flow, but this is basically JIT vs. interpreter, and nobody argues JITs are slower than interpreters, especially when the compiler is /this/ simple. 05:53:00 * Sgeo gets dizzy 05:53:33 ... 05:53:34 Dizzy. 05:54:12 I'm not allowed to be metaphorical? 05:54:30 See the thing is, with you it's usually not figurative ... and that's not what metaphorical means. 05:54:35 my argument is more on the basis that exec + string concatenation is always going to be slower than the Python code where you directly interpret it. 05:54:41 Well, it sort of is. 05:54:42 But not really. 05:55:07 CakeProphet: Well, CPython string concatenation is actually just as fast as joining (i.e. linear in number of strings to join) IIRC. 05:55:27 Do you agree that that would not apply if the language had significant control flow? 05:55:40 Interpretive overhead would surely come in there, as the control flow cannot be "directly" mapped to Python constructs in an interpreter. 05:57:05 you're saying that if the language had control flow constructs then this "JIT" solution would be even better? 05:57:19 What's with the scare quotes around JIT? 05:57:23 It is precisely a JIT. 05:57:54 Perhaps there's more code than the snippet I saw? 05:58:06 Deadfish is a trivial language, why would there be? 05:58:08 Here's what a JIT does: 05:58:12 - Acts as an interpreter by 05:58:16 - - Compiling code, and then 05:58:19 - - Immediately executing it. 05:58:23 [asterisk]Compiling code on the fly, 05:58:39 This is exactly what that code snippet does, so yes, it's a Deadfish JIT, as opposed to a Deadfish compiler (s/exec/print/) or a Deadfish interpreter. 06:03:14 Sgeo: way to ask #scheme for advice on what lisp dialect to take 06:03:20 yeah, it's a JIT. But this approach makes all the typical advantages of JIT compilation no longer apply, basically. Also, join is much faster than string concatenation, but you don't use much string concatenation so it's not much of an issue. I think the main reason that the JIT in this case is less efficient than a interpreter written in Python is because of how exec works. But yeah, if you want to minimize lines of cod 06:03:41 monqy, I was hoping they'd answer "Which Scheme" rather than "Scheme or CL?" 06:04:23 Sgeo: then perhaps you should have left common lisp out. the way you phrased your question made it like you lumped all the schemes together 06:04:29 CakeProphet: join is not faster than string concatenation. That applies in other Python implementations but not CPython. 06:04:42 Also, you got cut off after "minimize lines of co". 06:04:54 "lines of cod" for me 06:04:56 monqy: Why have you lead me into a channel of inevitable cringe? 06:04:58 monqy: :D 06:05:02 doing lines of cod 06:05:06 "lines of cod" for me, too 06:05:11 If you want to minimize lines of code, then you've accomplished that. :) 06:05:18 Bytes, actually. 06:05:26 But yeah, no, join = repeated string concatenation in CPython. 06:05:30 At least asymptomatically if nothing else. 06:05:37 elliott, so far, the only thing that you've seen said that could possibly be cringeworthy is what I said 06:06:01 05:53:55 I'm getting dizzy trying to decide between various Schemes, and Common Lisp 06:06:03 Cringeworthy. 06:06:21 Or you could logread, I guess 06:07:01 I've always been told and read that in CPython join is always a better solution than a loop with repeated string concatenation. Essentially, the more you rely on builtin functions and less on Python code the more efficient your Python code will be. 06:07:26 Well, uh, there may be an incredibly MINOR difference. 06:07:42 But the reason it's recommended to join instead is because Jython and other implementations have linear join, but exponential repeated-concatenation. 06:08:02 The only difference with CPython will be a (probably tiny) constant factor. 06:08:22 (x + y + z) and "".join((x, y, z)) are pretty much going to be equivalent. 06:11:15 yes they'll be the same asymptotically. 06:11:50 But like I said, not in Jython. 06:11:57 Dunno about IronPython. 06:12:35 72 is the current Python recod. 06:12:36 record* 06:12:39 I'm going to need more work. 06:12:45 to do* 06:12:46 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:12:56 The dict is already 53 chars 06:14:01 elliott. 06:14:26 Never mind. 06:14:39 I should implement an esolang in something 06:14:42 Perhaps Racket 06:14:48 Lymia: >_< 06:14:57 Sgeo: OH MY GOD STOP REPEATING THE SAME THING IN FIFTY DIFFERENT WAYS 06:15:09 I'm actually going to DO IT though 06:15:46 THEN DO IT 06:16:59 found this: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/2/1/exec-in-python/ 06:17:44 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 06:18:38 pikhq_: I sure want Debian rolling round about now. 06:18:39 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 06:18:57 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 06:20:18 elliott: hmm, okay, so I think you were right actually. I was assuming that exec was always slower than regular Python, but it's only slower if you make repeated execs using a string (because it parses and byte-code compiles the program each call) 06:20:40 in that case you would want to use compile() first and then exec that. 06:20:58 The only question is, how long a Deadfish program do you need for the compilation overhead to go away? :-) 06:22:13 wouldn't increasing the length of the source program increase the compilation overhead? or am I missing something? 06:22:44 True. But it'd also increase the overhead of the while loop of an interpreter... :-P 06:22:59 import sys;i=0;exec"".join(dict(i="i+=1;",d="i-=1;",o="print i;",s="i*=i;").get(x,"")for x in sys.stdin.read()) 06:23:03 Any way to shorten this? 06:23:12 I'm starting to think that another approach is needed. 06:23:51 erm 06:23:54 why have you put ; at the end again 06:24:13 oh 06:24:13 i see 06:24:35 ...I don't. 06:24:52 why not just ";".join? 06:24:58 hey good idea 06:25:02 Lymia: import sys;i=0;exec";".join(dict(i="i+=1;",d="i-=1;",o="print i;",s="i*=i;").get(x,"")for x in sys.stdin) 06:25:04 shorter in two ways 06:25:07 erm 06:25:10 remove the ;s from the end :D 06:25:18 import sys;i=0;exec";".join(dict(i="i+=1",d="i-=1",o="print i",s="i*=i").get(x,"")for x in sys.stdin) 06:25:28 elliott, nope. 06:25:43 If you write ;; in Python, you get a syntax error. 06:25:53 You'd need to have .get(x,"somekindofnoop") then 06:25:58 using map instead of a generator expression might shave a few bytes. 06:25:58 Wait 06:26:03 Lymia: ... 06:26:04 no 06:26:05 CakeProphet, checked, nope. 06:26:09 oh, i see 06:26:11 import sys;i=0;exec";".join(dict(i="i+=1",d="i-=1",o="print i",s="i*=i").get(x,"0")for x in sys.stdin) 06:27:34 yeah that's a sufficient compromise. 06:28:26 hmm 06:28:26 actually doesn't iterating on a file descriptor iterate by line? 06:28:27 Could you make it even shorter with reduce? 06:28:33 how would reduce help? 06:28:42 CakeProphet: yes, but the anagolf challenge uses single lines 06:28:48 maybe the newlines will break it... 06:28:52 argh 06:28:52 they do 06:29:00 import sys;i=0;exec";".join(dict(i="i+=1",d="i-=1",o="print i",s="i*=i").get(x[0],"0")for x in sys.stdin) 06:29:02 problem solved 06:29:05 elliott, using sys.stdin instead of sys.stdin() gives me 0;0;0;0;0;0 06:29:20 sys.stdin() won't do anything... 06:29:21 anyway 06:29:24 that's why i just fixed it 06:29:25 There we go. 06:29:45 anyway 06:29:47 you still need wrapping 06:29:48 so... 06:30:27 elliott, http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish 06:30:33 The dialect used here dosn't wrap. 06:30:41 Yes it DOES. Deadfish wraps weirdly. 06:30:47 You can go /over/ with squaring. 06:30:56 import sys;i=0;exec";i*=i!=256;".join(dict(i="i+=1",d="i-=1",o="print i",s="i*=i").get(x[0],"0")for x in sys.stdin) 06:31:06 Just needs negative handling. 06:31:14 Lymia: "If you decrement zero you get zero and if the result ever becomes 256 it should change to zero immediately." --the challenge description itself 06:32:00 It should _not_ take this long to implement HQ9+ 06:32:07 Ah. 06:32:11 maybe you're doing it wrong 06:32:15 Sgeo: obviously the fault is with the implementation and not you. 06:32:30 I was under the impression that iterating on a file descrpitor automatically strips the newline. 06:32:40 CakeProphet: seemingly not :) 06:32:50 ...weird. 06:32:53 ... 06:33:12 elliott, I barely know Racket 06:33:23 1twobit720.123511/05/15 02:36:540B / 34B / 35B 06:33:23 2leonid720.094111/05/16 09:47:110B / 39B / 24B 06:33:23 3hallvabo730.086611/05/15 04:53:210B / 31B / 38B 06:33:28 These are the top for Python right now. 06:33:35 We are WAY over. 06:33:54 Can more byte shaving be done? 06:34:02 Probably, but it'll require more ingenuity. 06:34:05 I would say using dict takes more bytes than {} syntax. 06:34:09 What I am saying is, cheating. 06:34:11 CakeProphet: it does not. 06:34:13 I measured. 06:34:28 ah because of the quotes on the keys. 06:34:29 {} has a bunch of " around 06:34:37 I wish I could get rid of the quotes 06:34:42 around the values too. 06:34:48 Lymia: see Perl. :P 06:34:57 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:35:00 CakeProphet, it's perl. 06:35:02 Of course it's shorter. 06:35:10 elliott, binary strings? 06:35:28 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 06:35:32 Can we do anything with that? 06:35:35 Lymia: ..whut? 06:35:56 Lymia: wat 06:36:02 well, no 06:36:07 this is way too small for compression to help 06:36:07 isn't this about source code size? 06:36:37 If you cheat, you can post with (cheat) after your name, you can also post noncheating without (cheat) and you can do similar things if you want multiple submissions for any reason. One reason might be, you might want binary, you might want one without binary, or some symbols only, or alphanumerics only, etc 06:36:38 Yes. 06:36:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:36:47 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 06:36:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:36:48 What's SLIME's debugging like? Because the way DrRacket does this is starting to tick me off 06:37:00 Sgeo: only as good as your Lisp's, obviously. 06:37:09 I don't know if there's a Racket port of SLIME, though. 06:37:16 Like see Postscript they have one (bin) and one text 06:37:25 There's a Schemefortyeight port of SLIME but it is out of date. 06:37:47 elliott, I meant, I'm considering flipping over to Common Lisp 06:38:00 Isn't for/list supposed to return a list? 06:38:08 sgeo: you are funny 06:38:12 for starters, you aren't coding scheme 06:38:43 is he coding magic 06:38:46 pure magic 06:39:01 Also note that for the problem, it doesn't matter how your program treats "h" as long as it does not output anything or cause infinite loop 06:39:09 coppro: it's fairly obvious he isn't coding scheme since he's using racket not a scheme 06:39:11 if you could use raw_input instead of sys.stdin you could remove the import line 06:39:22 but I don't see a way to do that without introducing more bytes. 06:39:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:40:43 Sgeo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/search/index.html?q=for/list 06:40:45 Sgeo: go wild 06:40:59 http://pastie.org/private/tx8g8qrhsd4ggssrspzdg 06:41:05 can Sgeo actually code 06:41:12 i mean i'm not sure 90 percent of psox actually counted as code 06:41:22 It's acting like for/list isn't returning anything 06:41:26 (define (99-bottles) 06:41:26 (error "Not implemented yet")) 06:41:26 (define (inc-accum) 06:41:26 (error "Not implemented yet")) 06:41:27 that's just poetic 06:41:49 Sgeo: do you put do- before all of your function names? 06:42:01 do-99-bottles 06:42:05 do-inc-accum 06:42:10 do-do-inc-accum 06:42:14 it implements a function after all 06:43:09 (list->string lst) → string? 06:43:09 lst : (listof char?) 06:43:09 Returns a new mutable string whose content is the list of characters in lst. That is, the length of the string is (length lst), and the sequence of characters in lst is the same sequence in the result string. 06:43:18 look at that, Sgeo is violating a function contract 06:43:27 ...how on earth did someone get a smaller source size than that. 06:43:47 a different approach, perhaps 06:43:49 or black magic 06:43:52 elliott, oh... but that manages to not even fix the problem 06:44:03 Sgeo: have you considered you might have other problems in your code 06:44:11 what if sgeo is the problem 06:44:14 what then 06:44:55 Sgeo: are Bink and Bonk debug code 06:44:59 by which I mean 06:45:00 Yes 06:45:13 hmmmmm 06:46:05 The for/list is still giving void 06:46:19 (Just replaced list->string with string-append*) 06:46:28 have you tried evaluating the for/list in the repl 06:46:30 before asking 06:46:33 Yes 06:46:37 and 06:46:57 it returned properly, iirc (bloody DrRacket cleared it out already) 06:47:06 Wait 06:47:11 $ racket 06:47:11 Welcome to Racket v5.1.1. 06:47:11 > 06:47:11 yet you find it unthinkable that the problem could be in the appending and displaying parts 06:47:17 whats drracket 06:47:17 rather than the for/list part 06:47:18 i see 06:47:40 oh nuts this thing can't handle arrow keys 06:48:06 monqy: quack for emacs = good stuff 06:48:15 special integration with racket's repl 06:48:20 http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/screenshot.png 06:48:26 elliott, no, but you pointed out an additional problem 06:48:35 too bad I don't use emacs 06:48:42 Sgeo: Did I 06:48:49 monqy: just start emacs to use the repl >:) 06:48:52 or, y'know... use rlwrap 06:48:57 list->string wouldn't wor properly 06:49:04 hey 06:49:06 i found sgeo's bug 06:49:09 I think I'll edit my lines in vim then paste them into the repl 06:49:16 it's that he thinks characters are strings 06:49:20 hmm 06:49:23 is that so 06:49:25 unless [hash]\X is equal? to "X" 06:49:52 > (equal? #\X "X") 06:49:53 #f 06:49:53 : parse error on input `#\' 06:49:59 sorry lambdabot 06:50:03 * elliott pats lambdabot 06:50:08 it's ok 06:50:14 ty 06:50:22 Although I kind of.. was thinking of that >.> 06:51:08 fuck why am i helping you figure out obvious bugs in your ten lines of code 06:51:12 im ashamed of myself 06:51:28 I should see if I can implement hq9+ better than sgeo 06:52:04 try doing it while being a cat 06:52:06 for a challenge 06:52:20 I'm really tired and I don't think I've ever actually done anything in racket before 06:52:23 is that good enough 06:52:39 yeah 06:52:42 im tired too 06:56:52 + is now implemented 06:56:56 woohoo 06:58:00 Oh come on 06:58:22 ahahahahahahahahah 06:58:25 This is pathetic how can I not find this function 06:58:34 Sgeo i swear to god you literally get stupider as time goes on 06:58:41 elliott, no I do not have a bug in + 06:58:44 im quite honsetly unable to think of a single other possibility 06:59:29 I just can't seem to find the function to make a nice list of numbers 07:00:19 what 07:00:23 For 9 07:00:25 monqy: i dont want to live on this planet any more 07:00:34 Sgeo: at this rate you're going to have to start doing python programming soon 07:00:58 Sgeo: what do you mean a nice list of numbers 07:01:03 Sgeo: do you want it to greet you 07:01:13 Sgeo: (I'm afraid that's not possible) 07:02:44 elliott: my theory is Sgeo wrote PSOX before his university untaught him programming 07:03:06 I think my accumulator is nicer than a naive one 07:03:13 Sgeo: ... 07:03:13 Although I guess nothing actually makes it naive 07:03:17 you realise the accumulator does nothing 07:03:22 coppro: psox was 90 percent function decorators 07:03:27 coppro: and easter eggs 07:04:12 elliott, I consider that cheating 07:04:30 Sgeo: look at all these shits i'm giving 07:04:39 (define (do-inc-accum) #f) ; optimized out 07:04:45 jesus monqy 07:04:47 this is like a shit tornado 07:04:51 im not giving them to anyone 07:04:52 not even orphans 07:05:13 that's a whole lotta shit to be giving 07:05:19 what if I put another do in there 07:05:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: +++). 07:06:15 olsner: no 07:06:18 olsner: i'm giving none of the shits 07:06:22 theyre all mine 07:08:34 * Sgeo would really appreciate CL's format 07:08:42 what does that mean 07:08:57 http://docs.racket-lang.org/search/index.html?q=format 07:08:59 WOW LOOK AT THAT 07:09:00 FORMAT 07:09:08 USE 07:09:08 THE 07:09:10 you don't say 07:09:10 FUCKING 07:09:11 SEARCH 07:09:11 PAGE 07:09:11 >_< 07:09:28 what if he wants common lisp's format specifically 07:09:30 not dirty racket's format 07:09:33 shell out to sbcl 07:09:38 :D 07:09:45 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:RichardPrime&curid=3901&diff=22899&oldid=22898 07:09:47 wow 07:09:47 spambot user 07:09:52 monqy, thank you 07:10:04 what did I do 07:10:04 Sgeo: ... 07:10:10 I was the one who fucking searched and linked it. 07:10:15 monqy, be correct in knowing what I wanted. 07:10:17 elliott, yes, I saw. 07:10:24 I thought I was mocking you 07:10:29 dagnabbit 07:13:19 DrRacket: That's just great. Tell me an error, but hilight the text in red such that I can't see s-exprs easily 07:14:10 monqy: will this horror ever end..... 07:14:32 Sgeo: I hope you know you don't have to use drracket 07:14:41 hes a super masochist 07:14:50 that or stupid 07:14:52 not sure 07:19:07 elliott: so is the input for the deadfish code all on one line or is it seperated by lines? 07:19:35 CakeProphet: in the anagolf challenge it is all on separate lines 07:20:23 http://pastie.org/private/l7sb1cgdx6iy0ee7wu3vw 07:20:39 does it work 07:20:49 I'm still working on mine it's going to be so rad 07:20:53 thank fuck Sgeo has implemented hqnine+ 07:20:56 now well never be without it 07:20:59 (define inc-accum 07:20:59 (let ([accum 0]) 07:20:59 (lambda () 07:20:59 (set! accum (+ accum 1))))) 07:21:00 it uses case instead of cond 07:21:05 oh its that scheme idiom thats obsoleted in racket 07:21:16 youre meant to use the fucking module system for encapsulation instead 07:21:26 it also uses continuations 07:21:28 that's how rad it is 07:21:45 (format "~a bottle~a of beer on the wall.~%~a bottle~a of beer.~%Take one down, pass it around,~%~a bottle~a of beer on the wall!~%" bottles s bottles s (- bottles 1) last-s))))) 07:21:48 theres no exclamation mark 07:21:53 and you need "no more bottles" at the end 07:22:01 ssshhh 07:22:03 this is embarrassing 07:22:32 I'm going to print it out line by line such as not to have stupid concatenation overhead but the core of my interpreter will be pure 07:22:41 (so rad) 07:23:11 make it PRINT the lyrics out 07:23:12 a i 07:23:13 as in 07:23:15 on your printer 07:23:18 im sure racket has a library for that 07:23:29 this would be a good idea if I had a printer 07:23:36 just use a pdf printer or similar to test it 07:23:44 mmm 07:24:54 Why does pastie weirdly color the ( in the lambda arglist? 07:25:05 monqy: im going to start crying soon 07:25:37 don't worry I know everything ever about pastie 07:25:59 Sgeo: presumably it's broken 07:26:23 racket's contract stuff looks cool mind you 07:42:00 is this shorter? 07:42:02 monqy: is it done yet 07:42:03 import sys;exec"x=0"+"%256".join(dict(i="+1",d="-1",o="+0;print x;x=x",s="+0;x*=x;x=x").get(x[0],"") for x in sys.stdin) 07:42:07 elliott: no :( 07:42:08 CakeProphet: modulo is wrong 07:42:12 and you haven't handled negative 07:42:13 I haven't like... tried to run it. probably should 07:42:28 and x=x breaks the syntax there... 07:42:36 CakeProphet: you need ==[twofivesix], not modulo 07:43:00 x[asterisk]=x[exclamation mark]=[twofivesix];x[asterisk]=x>0 07:43:03 that should handle wrapping 07:43:07 how does x=x break syntax? 07:43:17 oh, i see how it works 07:43:19 it's still broken though 07:43:23 because of the wrapping 07:43:36 anyway i think that's actually one or two bytes longer than our last attempt 07:44:01 yeah all the hackery to get o and s to work 07:45:39 x*=x!=256*x>0 would cut some bytes. 07:46:49 initially I was just going to replace s with **2 but I realized that would conflict with operator precedence. 07:47:49 x*=x!=256*x>0 07:47:51 parses wrong 07:47:54 x*=(x!=256)*x>0 07:47:54 or 07:47:56 x*=(x!=256)*(x>0) 07:47:58 will work 07:48:01 dunno about that middle one 07:48:04 but yeah the first one will parse wrong 07:48:13 yeah... 07:48:36 also you need parens around ("x=0"+"%256") in your old version 07:49:08 on only the %256 was being the join delimeter. 07:49:20 x=0 is the initialization 07:49:34 erm. 07:49:39 so it parses something like 07:49:49 oh i see 07:49:49 hmm 07:49:50 or do i 07:49:55 right 07:50:03 x = 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 -1 -1 -1 ...+0;print x;x=x + 1 + 1 +1 +1 ...; 07:50:04 I accidentally ditched continuations for returning multiple values. oops. 07:50:19 are you golfing Deadfish? 07:50:28 ...maybe. 07:52:48 yeah so that approach breaks down when you start applying a bunch of != >0, **2, etc to the operator chain because of order of operations 07:53:57 uhm, so increasing 255 should be 0 but squaring 255 (or anything larger than 15) won't clip? 07:54:31 yep 07:54:37 its a magical language filled with idiocy and happiness 07:58:21 wait, increasing 255 is nop, but increasing 256 sets the accumulator 257???? 07:58:25 heck. 07:58:35 lifthrasiir: yes. 07:58:37 the logic is simple 07:58:46 every cycle, if the value is two-five-six or less than zero, it's set to zero 07:59:01 this also means that squaring to get two-five-seven and then decrementing goes to 0 07:59:30 pikhq_: xfce tips sure are of high quality - "Theres a volume changer plugin for the panel available. Its name is xfce[four]-mixer." 07:59:36 before I tried the operator chaining approach I decided it would be a good idea to import re;f=re.subn;... 07:59:45 and then chain together a bunch of substitutes. :) 07:59:56 but I don't think it was much different, and it didn't handle the wrapping. 08:00:32 Sgeo: is it done yet?????????/////////// 08:00:51 monqy: ??///// 08:01:24 I'm teaching it how to count beer 08:01:29 backwards 08:01:58 after this I will try remembering my original design and write that 08:02:04 because it was so much better this 08:03:00 hahahahahhhaha 08:03:52 that is 08:03:54 after sleep 08:03:58 : ( 08:04:03 I can hardly remember what I'm trying to do now 08:04:07 my first version: 115 bytes. 08:04:10 elliott, I haven't corrected the 99 bottle of beer issues 08:04:13 heck. 08:04:14 interestingly enough if you take (ord(x[0])-100)/5 then d, i, o, and s translate to 0, 1, 2, and 3 08:04:16 Nor am I working on it 08:04:30 Sgeo: apathy or spite 08:04:39 Mostly apathy 08:05:06 Hmm, considering that I want to try writing the same in Chicken and CL, maybe I should finish it 08:05:07 Sgeo: ahahahfahafjknsdfkgsfdknlg,m 08:05:10 Not tonight though 08:05:17 this couldnt be funnier 08:05:24 CakeProphet: that's a lot of characters in itself though 08:05:28 indeed. 08:05:31 but you could use a list like that 08:05:36 yes 08:05:38 unfortunately you would have to handle invalid chars / 08:05:39 :/ 08:05:58 otoh, x not in'h 08:05:59 ' is ok for this 08:06:05 (literal newline deliberate, one less char than \n) 08:06:06 (or wait) 08:06:09 (is that valid in python...) 08:06:35 yeah you can't do that 08:06:52 """ allows literal newlines 08:06:57 but not " or ' 08:07:20 ugly 08:07:29 yes, go complain to Guido 08:07:54 he'll read your email in his comfortable Google office chair. 08:08:23 took an another approach; 84 bytes. 08:08:44 i wonder others are using the same approach? 08:08:48 (at least for python) 08:09:02 I think 84 was one of the smallest on that list, if I recall. 08:09:17 CakeProphet: complain to guido? why would i want to talk to him... 08:09:19 as far i saw it is 72 bytes long now. 08:09:22 he doesn't even know what tail call optimisation is 08:09:45 lifthrasiir: I'm suspecting the 72 byte program cheats heavily somehow 08:10:03 elliott: well, you could present your case against Python in the hopes that he would find reason in your plea and make changes to Python 3.5 or 4 or something like that. 08:10:04 elliott, what is your best (without your supposed cheats)? 08:10:09 it's a well thought out plan, I promise. 08:10:34 lifthrasiir: well, we're working together... we've got it down to a hundred bytes or so 08:10:47 don't suppose you're willing to share your version? :P 08:10:47 i'm not sure, but it seems that 75+-2 is certainly possible 08:10:57 CakeProphet: meh, much easier to just erase him from the history books instead 08:11:30 well, the first rule of all string-to-code golfing: abuse exec. 08:11:34 I once held Python in high esteem... but that was back when I only knew Python and not much else. :P 08:11:36 this sucks I'm getting sleep 08:11:51 overengineering is difficult when tired 08:12:17 lifthrasiir: we already are :) 08:12:48 in Perl, it's probably something like "abuse regex" 08:13:08 but that's always the first rule in... any Perl programming. 08:13:10 elliott, and also take a look at how the input is read. 08:13:20 lifthrasiir: already have :) 08:13:49 honestly golfing in Perl sounds way more fun than Python. 08:14:00 did you try all possible input methods (i.e. sys.stdin, sys.stdin.read(), os.read, input, raw_input etc.)? 08:14:12 well, sys.stdin was the one that was easiest with our code structure 08:14:12 input wouldn't work for sure. 08:14:17 the others would involve a separate while loo 08:14:17 p 08:14:19 raw_input is possible though. 08:14:20 hmm 08:14:21 input might work 08:14:29 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:14:37 i='n+=one';d='n-=one';code+=input() 08:14:40 you see? 08:14:42 since it evals 08:14:57 ...aaah 08:14:59 CakeProphet: can i have a digit one, my number keys are broken :) 08:15:06 I can't figure out how to get it shorter. 08:15:35 elliott, what are your current ideas? 08:15:40 Lymia: see above 08:15:54 Recursive eval? 08:16:05 not recursive no 08:16:07 no 08:16:10 symbol table abuse. :) 08:16:17 asterisk plz 08:16:20 need an asterisk :D 08:16:24 I like it. Though it's uncertain whether or not it will be a smaller result. 08:16:31 oi 08:16:34 here you can have this one * 08:16:34 someone type an asterisk >:( 08:16:35 yay 08:16:38 elliott. 08:16:43 That is evil, and might actually work. 08:16:52 How do you deal with characters not in the set? 08:16:54 We need to ignore those. 08:16:56 exclamation mark please 08:16:58 Lymia: nope, only h 08:16:58 the tricky part will be filtering all of the non-important characters. 08:17:02 ... ! 08:17:04 h is the only non-command char not used 08:17:11 CakeProphet: i'm not messing with you my number keys really are broken 08:17:16 ok someone type two-five-six 08:17:23 yes I believe you. :D 256 08:18:06 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=1';o='print n';s='n*=n';h=c='';while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*(n>0)' 08:18:07 syntax error 08:18:15 aha 08:18:22 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=1';o='print n';s='n*=n';h=c='' 08:18:22 while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*(n>0)' 08:18:23 two lines 08:18:27 this is promising 08:18:35 ninety-two bytes 08:18:40 or, wait 08:18:40 ninety-one 08:18:55 you can shorten that some more with tuple assignment 08:18:57 I think 08:19:07 * Lymia thinks 08:19:08 elliott. 08:19:14 This would be cheating, right. 08:19:22 Dosn't work in the general case. 08:19:23 no 08:19:25 all's fair in anagolf 08:19:33 CakeProphet: ah, possibly 08:19:34 Do we only need the shown examples to work 08:19:53 hmm, i don't think so CakeProphet 08:19:54 Lymia: yes 08:20:38 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=1';o='print n';s='n*=n';h=c='' 08:20:38 well you trade each semicolon for two commas, but then you get to take away a = for each one. Probably breaks even. 08:20:38 while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*n>0' 08:20:40 two bytes shorter 08:20:53 eighty-nine bytes 08:20:58 wait 08:21:00 useless c assignment there 08:21:07 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=1';o='print n';s='n*=n';h='' 08:21:07 while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*n>0' 08:21:08 eighty-seven bytes 08:21:17 oh wait 08:21:19 i can do h=n=0 there 08:21:20 75 bytes here. now that IS hard. 08:21:27 eighty-four bytes 08:21:43 lifthrasiir: is our new approach reasonable for such a low count...? 08:21:49 i think so. 08:22:05 Ah. 08:22:07 h is halt. 08:22:15 Lymia: apparently its ok to ignore it zzo said 08:22:17 its not actually part of deadfish 08:22:30 Only occurs at the end. 08:22:33 So, therefore. 08:22:38 Ignore. 08:23:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:23:23 Hmm... 08:23:28 You can only get below zero with d, right? 08:23:35 Lymia: yes 08:23:40 more precisely 08:23:41 elliott, what's the current code? 08:23:42 you can't :) 08:23:45 Lymia: h=n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=1';o='print n';s='n*=n';while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*n>0' 08:23:48 where the ; before while is a newline 08:23:51 it's just like this to count bytes easier 08:24:05 hmm 08:24:12 elliott. 08:24:17 Does Python have an infinite generator? 08:24:25 And how are we exiting this loop? 08:24:26 yes but it requires an import 08:24:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:24:33 it's in itertools 08:24:45 h=n=0;i=d=s='n+=1';d[1]='-';s[1:]='*=n';o='print n';while 1:exec input()+';n*=(n!=256)*n>0' 08:24:46 bleh, longer 08:24:51 you could also define your own with a function that uses yield. Probably even more bytes than the import though. 08:24:51 Lymia: with erro 08:24:51 r 08:24:53 input() will fail 08:24:55 elliott, is this allowed? 08:24:59 Lymia: yes 08:25:03 Will it pass? 08:25:06 yes 08:25:09 stderr is ignored 08:25:09 elliott, python's string is immutable, i think? 08:25:14 Ah. 08:25:15 lifthrasiir: oh damn, right :( 08:25:36 well you can just mutate one of them 08:25:55 no 08:25:57 you can't 08:25:58 they're strings 08:26:16 er, nevermind. :P 08:26:37 h=n=0;i='n+=n!=255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n';while 1:exec input() 08:26:39 this works apart from s 08:26:44 s needs to handle sqrt two-five-six 08:26:45 So. 08:26:48 We've hit a brick wall. 08:26:51 so sixteen 08:26:52 Lymia: nope 08:27:17 So. 08:27:19 0d = 0 08:27:22 h=n=0;i='n+=n!=255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n**=1+(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:27:22 255i = 0 08:27:25 eighty-one bytes 08:27:26 bitches 08:27:39 What is n? 08:27:41 nice. 08:27:42 Ah. 08:28:01 elliott. 08:28:02 h=n=0;i='n+=n!=255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=2*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:28:04 eighty bytes 08:28:05 h only occurs at the end. 08:28:13 n=0;i='n+=n!=255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=2*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:28:14 h = halt 08:28:18 oh 08:28:19 We can make it halt by erroring. 08:28:21 awesome 08:28:21 :) 08:28:25 n=0;i='n+=n!=255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=2*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:28:29 seventy-eight bytes 08:28:34 this is going to get very difficult very quickly 08:28:36 SO. 08:28:39 Who does credit go to? 08:28:41 #esoteric? 08:28:44 elliott? 08:28:45 :3 08:28:48 I'll submit this version as #esoteric 08:29:16 Hmm... 08:29:21 * elliott strips newline locally 08:29:25 n+=n!=255 08:29:29 How does that work? 08:29:29 then we can try and shorten it further ofc 08:29:33 If n == 255 08:29:34 Lymia: boolean->int conversion 08:29:36 false is zero, true is one 08:29:37 Then n+=0 08:29:39 Meaning 255 08:29:41 Instead of 0 08:29:44 argh 08:29:45 you're right 08:29:53 hmm 08:29:54 we need 08:30:00 f(x,255)=-x 08:30:01 elliott. 08:30:03 Check the tests. 08:30:05 f(x,n)=one 08:30:14 Do any use this behvaior? 08:30:16 behavior* 08:30:20 Lymia: probably 08:30:25 its too hard to tell from reading them 08:30:44 damn, it is hard to get below 75B. 08:30:48 ill try with just +=one 08:31:18 Yep. 08:31:22 do they 08:31:22 Test 4 tests it. 08:31:26 right 08:31:33 hmm 08:31:34 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:32:16 n=0;i='n+=1+(n=255)*(-n-1)';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=2*(n!=16)' 08:32:18 that could work 08:32:35 assignment isn't an expression in Python 08:32:59 unless you meant == 08:33:00 and? 08:33:02 oh 08:33:02 right 08:33:05 ... 08:33:06 * Lymia cheaty face 08:33:09 Hey, elliott. 08:33:15 Are we allowed to use the file name as input? 08:33:21 And is the file name preserved? 08:33:35 erm 08:33:38 my squaring thing is borked 08:33:51 Lymia: heh... 08:33:54 it isn\t, no 08:33:55 isn't 08:34:01 should be n*=n or n**=2 08:34:06 CakeProphet: right 08:35:30 i='n+=1+(n==255)*(-n-1)' 08:35:31 does in fact work 08:35:33 wait 08:35:37 But is long. 08:35:44 n=255;i='n+=1+(n==255)*-255';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)' 08:35:45 identical 08:35:53 erm 08:35:54 Identical? 08:35:55 haha... 08:35:57 needs a four 08:35:59 someone say four for me 08:36:02 four? 08:36:08 .. 08:36:09 the digit 08:36:15 4 08:36:24 or wait no 08:36:25 i need a six 08:36:27 but i have one 08:36:28 6 08:36:31 haha, okay. 08:36:49 ugh 08:36:52 back up to eighty seven bytes 08:37:09 六 08:37:14 Here's a six for you 08:37:55 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 08:38:17 n=0;i='n+=1+(n==255)*-256';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:38:19 ok, this is what we have 08:38:20 any ideas? 08:38:31 hmm 08:38:35 cmp(n,twofivefive) might help 08:38:44 abs(cmp(n,twofivefive))... no, too long 08:38:50 ooh wait 08:38:52 -!- cheater_ has joined. 08:39:04 n=0;i='n+=abs(cmp(n,255))';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:39:06 identical char count 08:39:42 Is this fully functional? 08:39:45 I don't know, I'm pretty stumped now. :P 08:39:46 yes. 08:39:52 yeah im losing ideas 08:40:00 lifthrasiir: throw us a bone? :P 08:41:11 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 08:41:25 the only thing I can think of would be to find another solution and compare its bytecount 08:41:32 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 08:41:42 i'm now at 73B, but i think it is certainly cheating 08:41:54 as it fails to implement the full Deadfish spec 08:41:59 lifthrasiir, does it work? 08:42:19 accidentally, yes 08:42:31 lifthrasiir: cheating is ok :) 08:42:32 the examples do not test one behavior of the interpreter 08:42:38 going below 0? 08:42:46 Tested. 08:42:50 hmm 08:42:55 squaring to two-five-six? 08:43:06 if thats not tested we could save *(n!=16) 08:43:14 no, that is tested in the third example 08:43:16 oddoioidososisosiodsiodsioissiosoh 08:43:22 This is one of the examples. 08:43:27 hmm 08:43:34 lifthrasiir: then i am not sure what behaviour you refer to :-P 08:43:34 Tests squaring to 256 08:43:40 since that is baically all behaviours 08:43:42 elliott, one sec. 08:44:23 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 08:44:47 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 08:45:14 OK 08:45:16 I figured it out too 08:45:17 :) 08:45:27 Lymia: hey, tell 08:45:33 i shared my innovation :( 08:45:34 73 here too. 08:45:35 >:3 08:45:40 >:| 08:45:41 jerk 08:45:47 elliott, what is the longest check? 08:45:52 ;i='n+=abs(cmp(n,255))'; 08:45:57 you already said that was tested before 08:45:59 We can just increment. 08:46:02 elliott, no. 08:46:07 Squaring to 256 was. 08:46:11 no, i mean before that 08:46:23 Hold on. 08:46:26 ok, now to shave off two bytes 08:46:40 that is also a problem here 08:46:50 lifthrasiir: ? 08:46:58 FYI my version is: i='h+=1';d='h-=0 There is now an L programming language: http://home.cc.gatech.edu/tony/uploads/61/Lpaper.htm 08:47:07 I guess I was wrong. 08:47:08 Yeah. 08:47:15 elliott, no, i'm also figuring out how to shave off two bytes 08:47:15 n+=1 does work 08:47:19 (or at least one...) 08:47:28 Different loop? 08:47:35 the loop is pretty much perfect 08:47:37 Can we shave off the h=0? 08:47:42 n=0 you mean 08:47:47 ignore lifthrasiir's lie version ;D 08:47:48 Yes. 08:47:51 ok using h is actually clever 08:47:54 but irrelevant 08:48:00 It fails either way. 08:48:03 elliott, yeah it is irrelevant. 08:48:04 no 08:48:07 it would succeed silently 08:48:08 with lifthrasiir's 08:48:09 Just due to different reasons. 08:48:14 but i retained it anyway 08:48:16 h = halt. 08:48:17 ;) 08:48:20 We implemented it better. 08:48:23 Ours crashes with a key not found. 08:48:25 right :P 08:48:27 not key 08:48:30 just unbound variable 08:48:35 NameError. 08:48:42 right 08:48:52 Hey, uh. 08:48:57 Lymia: ? 08:48:57 Can we do anything to o? 08:49:01 i doubt it 08:49:06 And for no clear reason, they choose ` for strings and " for comments 08:49:21 Sgeo, so strings start with ` and ends with '? 08:49:28 so that* 08:49:34 Start and end with ` 08:49:52 what the hell. 08:50:03 lifthrasiir: ? 08:50:06 oh, strings 08:50:07 s='n*=n*(n!=16)' 08:50:10 Lymia: maybe if we shorten this 08:50:35 n*n*(n!=16) 08:50:45 no assignment 08:50:57 I'm thinking. 08:50:57 eh? 08:51:03 So. 08:51:04 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*(n!=16)';while 1:exec 'n=n'+input() 08:51:04 darn 08:51:05 one byte more 08:51:14 n**2*(n!=16) 08:51:21 that will parse wrong 08:51:22 i think 08:51:34 I'm thinking of how it reduces mathematically. 08:51:35 you have to watch operator precedence I discovered.. 08:51:47 n*=n*(n!=16) 08:52:18 n*=n*(n!=16) -> n=n*n*(n!=16) -> n=(n**2)*(n!=16) 08:52:23 So... 08:52:27 No mathematical tricks. 08:52:37 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 08:52:37 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*(n!=16)';while 1:exec'n=n'+input() 08:52:38 >>> 0**0 08:52:38 1 08:52:38 SAME LENGTH 08:52:41 [asterisk]same length 08:52:44 oh and you have to make o='+0;print n;n=n' 08:52:46 I think I'm liking L though 08:52:51 CakeProphet: not here 08:52:55 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*(n!=16)';while 1:exec'n=n'+input() 08:52:57 elliott. 08:52:59 * Sgeo gets shot. 08:53:01 Any way to abuse 0**0==1? 08:53:12 Lymia: doubt it :) 08:53:46 Wait a second. 08:53:59 elliott: ah I see. 08:54:43 any chance doing a list lookup with ord(input()-100 08:54:43 this is tricky 08:54:48 )/5 would be shorter? 08:54:53 CakeProphet: beep, input() evals the line 08:55:00 oh right... 08:55:04 we could assign indexes to them or something and call lambdas but... no 08:55:17 yeah. 08:55:49 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 08:56:33 dsio 08:56:46 Here's where it zeros. 08:56:47 dsio 08:56:50 dsio dsio dsio dsio 08:57:04 So. 08:57:09 Hmm... 08:57:50 okay, i got it. 72B. 08:58:00 lifthrasiir: not gonna divulge the secret, are you >:D 08:58:06 Don't tell us~ 08:58:10 Lymia: CakeProphet: TOGETHER WE WILL ACHIEVE THIS 08:58:12 what are you talking about 08:58:14 tell us of course :D 08:58:16 haha, well i don't tell you, as it will spoil the fun ;) 08:58:20 yeah 08:58:21 "fun" 08:58:23 lifthrasiir, how clever is it? 08:58:23 :D 08:58:37 I wonder. 08:58:38 Lymia, not beyond your expectation. it's actually quite simple. 08:58:46 Is there some hax we can reduce it farther with? 08:59:07 as far as i see, it seems very hard. it might be the tight minimum. 08:59:09 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:59:27 kolgomorov complexity of deadfish-without-increment-checking :) 08:59:35 lol 09:00:11 gah 09:01:24 wait, i got it one byte smaller again. 09:01:29 hurray 09:01:31 lifthrasiir. 09:01:32 You. 09:01:33 :D 09:01:37 lifthrasiir: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 09:01:44 hmm 09:01:50 i refuse to credit us as hash-esoteric 09:01:51 it'll be 09:02:02 hash-esoteric-apart-from-that-lifthrasiir-guy-who-was-just-horrible-and-kept-secrets >:D 09:02:06 :3 09:02:09 elliott. 09:02:15 If I reduce it below lifthrasiir, I'm going to keep secrets too. 09:02:27 whatever happened to teamwork :( 09:02:29 actually ord(raw_input)/5-20 would be smaller than subtracting 100 and then dividing by 5, still I doubt the replacement will beat the 12 characters that you get to remove from doing so. 09:02:36 *raw_input() 09:02:40 hey, who was the person that pointed out exec input() will work? :3 09:02:47 lifthrasiir: me 09:02:54 huh :p 09:02:55 ;D 09:02:56 anyway 09:03:10 actually you just said input(), I worked out the exec() part myself :-D 09:03:15 joint discovery 09:03:17 :-P 09:03:26 ah, okay. 09:03:34 I'M GLAD WE'RE IN AGREEMENT 09:03:35 hmm 09:03:40 it's not as simple as just shaving one byte off is it :D 09:03:49 i always thought the golfing consists of two parts: applying the standard techniques, and brute-forcing. 09:04:33 no matter clever you are, you have to experiment with several possible approaches (and possible sub-approaches within them) 09:04:42 hmm...maybe that sixteen check could be simplified 09:04:44 that's the real fun, of course 09:04:57 http://docs.python.org/modindex.html 09:05:02 Let's raze the earth. 09:05:19 no modules can help us now 09:05:49 ok let's backtrack 09:05:50 s='n*=n*(n!=16)' 09:05:52 one byte off this... 09:06:04 only page you have to keep is http://docs.python.org/library/functions 09:06:42 but of course 09:06:47 memoryview() is the key to solving ALL OUR PROBLEMS 09:07:01 except for it costs at least 12 bytes. :p 09:07:05 that* 09:08:12 Lymia: any ideas? 09:08:29 I would try to get rid of those quotes if I had any idea how. 09:08:34 I don't think we can. 09:08:40 I'm thinking. 09:10:10 *shrug* 09:10:20 huh, did anagolf have a setpid interface? that will make a better use of $$ (for example). 09:10:25 yes 09:10:29 but we can't use that in python :) 09:10:36 lifthrasiir: quick, give us an excruciatingly vague hint to shave a byte off this :D 09:10:39 ...and seems quite cheating ;) 09:11:55 I doubt property() is of any use to us, but the idea is interesting. 09:12:09 elliott, for one byte, i think you were on the better track than me to point out where to shave off. for other one byte, it will follow naturally from the first one. 09:12:21 darn 09:12:23 that's all i can say at this moment 09:12:34 ok so trying to simplify n*=n*(n!=16) somehow... 09:13:43 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n**=2*n==16';while 1:exec input() 09:13:45 There's one byte, right? 09:14:00 erm 09:14:03 that will parse wrongly] 09:14:06 you need parens around n==sixteen 09:14:08 == is looser than * 09:14:17 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 09:14:17 Crap. 09:14:17 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*(n!=16)';while 1:exec'n=n'+input() 09:14:20 these are the two current bases 09:15:07 I don't see how s will double the value in the second one 09:15:35 er not double 09:15:38 **2 09:16:47 lifthrasiir, is the solution mathematical? 09:17:13 no. i was unable to reduce n!=16 bits. 09:17:28 ...wait i said too much?! 09:17:34 nope 09:17:38 you're still being excruciatingly vague. 09:18:38 Does Python have eval functionality? 09:18:41 yes 09:18:42 eval(x) 09:18:52 but print is a statement 09:18:53 so 09:19:21 and sys.stdin.write() is quite wordy and requires an import 09:19:36 *stdout 09:20:09 well there is __import__('sys').stdout.write() :) 09:20:12 but yeah 09:20:16 heh 09:20:20 elliott, I've checked. 09:20:21 That's longer. 09:20:32 ... ^___^ 09:20:33 lifthrasiir: ok one question 09:20:39 n=0;i='n+=1';d='n-=n>0';o='print n';s='n*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec input() 09:20:39 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*(n!=16)';while 1:exec'n=n'+input() 09:20:47 lifthrasiir: which of these is a more viable base for shaving a character? 09:20:52 CakeProphet: ? 09:20:58 2 dosn't work. 09:21:03 Note s 09:21:07 Lymia: ? 09:21:09 yeah I was asking about that earlier. 09:21:11 what? 09:21:14 n=n*(n!=16) 09:21:20 argh 09:21:32 n=0;i='+1';d='-(n>0)';o=';print n';s='*n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec'n=n'+input() 09:21:35 yeah ok this base looks futile 09:22:01 I wish we could get rid of n=0; 09:22:21 unfortunately python comes with no preinitialised variables :P 09:22:22 lifthrasiir, did you modify only the handlers? 09:24:12 So. 09:24:16 - and * have checks, right? 09:24:53 yep 09:26:16 lifthrasiir: just one teeny weeny excruciatingly vague hint? :D 09:28:08 elliott, can we somehow combine i and d? 09:28:59 tried things like that before 09:29:01 answer: doubt it 09:29:17 are you SURE squaring to two five six is checked? :) 09:29:45 Yes 09:30:05 SUUUUURE? 09:30:12 Yes 09:32:09 SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE? 09:32:54 Yes 09:33:40 SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE? 09:33:54 !simpleacro 09:33:59 Yes. 09:34:01 elliott. 09:34:02 ​VBJG 09:34:05 What if we assume a default operation? 09:34:29 Something easily undoed. 09:34:51 hmm 09:35:00 let me try something along those lines 09:35:06 !show simpleacro 09:35:06 no 09:35:06 ​haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) 09:35:08 because 09:35:10 while x:a;b 09:35:12 doesn't work 09:35:16 we'd need newlines indentation etc 09:36:34 ... 09:36:37 Dict comprehensions? 09:36:43 Yeah. 09:36:45 Not going to be shorter. 09:37:44 you can pass exec a dictionary environment, but you'd need some magic way to procedurally compress all of those strings into shorter code by taking advantage of some similarity that likely doesn't exist. 09:37:58 elliott. 09:38:01 I want to combine i an dd 09:38:03 and d* 09:39:16 Wait. 09:39:46 n,i,d,o,s=(0,'n+=1','n-=n>0','print n','n*=n*(n!=16)') 09:39:47 Buh. 09:39:48 So close. 09:39:52 1 char too long 09:39:56 the parens aren't necessary actually 09:39:58 those parens 09:39:59 arent needed 09:40:06 ... 09:40:12 yeah I was considering that earlier but I didn't think it would actually save anything. 09:40:17 but without them 09:40:18 So. 09:40:20 That's equal. 09:40:22 its identical 09:40:23 yeah 09:40:29 the character tradeoff is literally the same 09:41:11 split is too long 09:43:47 > "test" 09:43:48 "test" 09:44:16 > map (**2) [1..] 09:44:17 [1.0,4.0,9.0,16.0,25.0,36.0,49.0,64.0,81.0,100.0,121.0,144.0,169.0,196.0,22... 09:44:54 elliott, no ideas? 09:45:15 Lymia: i'm letting my mind churn away in a background process 09:45:34 bitwise magic? 09:45:41 I can't think of anything in that vein 09:47:41 lifthrasiir: one measly little hint??? :) 09:48:12 uh, i was briefly afk having a meal. so... what is your question? 09:49:09 execfile("deadfish.py",{"c":sys.stdin.read()}) looks promising. 09:49:10 -!- HolyBlood^AFK has joined. 09:49:35 CakeProphet, __file__? 09:49:50 wait, sorry. 09:50:01 yeah not quite what I meant. :D 09:50:04 import deadfish,sys;deadfish.exec(sys.stdin.read()) 09:50:10 how does that look promising :D 09:50:23 fewer source bytes, of course. 09:50:27 lifthrasiir: there is no question, I'm just drawing a blank :-) 09:50:28 not very portable though. 09:50:31 It's a joke. 09:51:26 any way that the % string operator could be used? 09:51:46 -!- HolyBlood^AFK has changed nick to HolyBlood. 09:51:57 it will save bits only when exec'prefix'+input()+'postfix' form is used. 09:52:27 WHEN, not IF, eh???? ;) 09:53:24 elliott, mind that my english is hardly fluent ;) 09:53:32 I am much better at obfuscation than golf... 09:53:55 lifthrasiir: I need to read _something_ in to your lines or I will never shave a byte off :-) 09:54:44 elliott, okay, what you considered a slight (and irrelevant) difference DOES make a big difference. 09:55:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:55:34 ooh 09:55:39 hmmmmmmmmmmm 09:55:48 now i have to go and read over my earlier comments :-) 09:56:08 yeah it was my original intention when i asked for a hint at the first. :p 09:56:29 oerjan, tirelessly reverting vandalism of the sandboz 09:56:36 IT WAS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING 09:58:56 as everyone knows i'm a principled man, when i can be bothered 09:59:09 oerjan: you will have lots of fun with sgeo's detailed chronicle of his failureiffic attempt to implement hq[nine]+ 09:59:16 by fun, i mean you will want to kill yourself. 09:59:31 ok, i was planning to skip most of the logs today anyhow 09:59:42 :( 09:59:44 noooo 09:59:48 you'll miss so much of the fun :( 09:59:58 WAIT THAT WASN'T A WARNING? 10:00:09 !simpleacro 10:00:13 ​FHW 10:00:23 why are these UK tv licensing ads always in tamil... 10:00:25 i'm not in tamil 10:00:32 lian speaking surroundings 10:01:25 Fucking Home Wrecker? 10:01:33 !simpleacro 10:01:37 ​JIKCR 10:01:50 22:25:37: some people like cutting their genitals, i imagine being glued from ones penis into a vagina might be a lot nicer. 10:01:50 22:25:43: hmm 10:01:50 22:25:50: wonder if this is the right chan for this :P 10:06:38 I wonder how expensive segfaulting is on xeightsix/Linux 10:06:49 well, segfaulting, catching it, and then resuming execution 10:08:30 lifthrasiir, is the postfix ")" 10:09:17 elliott. 10:09:20 What are our operations? 10:09:23 n+1 10:09:25 Lymia, i think it won't reduce the code, as "i" case is too simple to add non-artificial parentheses. 10:09:40 * oerjan suddenly realizes hq9+ + need not be entirely unobservable; it could err out on overflow 10:10:04 my first bash script: http://pastebin.com/cuSBQsEy isn't it beautiful? 10:10:11 okay, i'm now trying to golf a haskell code.... 10:10:17 does this mean I'm a hacker now? 10:10:24 You listen to music? 10:10:28 * oerjan 's ears pick up 10:10:29 ...uh, yes? 10:10:31 SILENCE MASTER RACE 10:10:35 YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC?????????????? 10:10:41 //////////////// 10:10:44 * Lymia hypocrite 10:11:01 n+1 10:11:03 n-(n>0) 10:11:04 CakeProphet: ok i have a rewrite of your script 10:11:10 echo "WHY WOULD YOU EVER TURN FLACS INTO MPTHREES" 10:11:15 it is just as good 10:11:19 n*n*(n!=16) 10:11:24 These are our operations, right? 10:11:30 Yes. Also output. 10:11:31 I managed to remove like 20 gigs of wasted space by converting all of that losslessness to psychoacoustically equivalent lossiness 10:11:51 CakeProphet: well, you goofed by not using a preset :) 10:12:09 hmm? 10:12:10 hmm do you even turn joint stereo on there 10:12:12 I don't think you do 10:12:23 Always keep the originals somewhere. 10:12:24 CakeProphet: lame comes with preset groups of settings 10:12:31 CakeProphet, so you have estimated 40 gigs of pure informativeness now? 10:12:35 which are superior to your own choices in, like, a hundred percent of cases :) 10:12:43 -!- cheater79 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:12:52 probably. I'm not very well-versed in lame. 10:13:12 `addquote [...] I'm not very well-versed in lame. 10:13:12 I'll see if I notice anything wrong sometime. 10:13:15 ​422) <.CakeProphet.>. [...] I'm not very well-versed in lame. 10:13:22 argh 10:13:24 stupid special chars 10:13:31 `delquote ​422 10:13:33 No output. 10:13:35 CakeProphet: well you won't really :P 10:13:43 not with the wildly excessive -V0 anyway 10:13:54 CakeProphet: but seriously though 10:13:55 ogg, man 10:13:57 why not ogg?? 10:14:03 to be precise 10:14:04 vorbis 10:14:18 eh, consistency. 10:14:22 "consistency"? 10:14:41 yes, keep a single file format or something. I honestly didn't have a reason for picking mp3. 10:14:49 elliott. I have an idea for golfing. 10:15:22 CakeProphet: vorbis = smaller files (much lower bitrate with same quality), more reliable seeking, better tag format, ~~~|~|~open standard|~|~|~|~ :P 10:15:25 Lymia: wat 10:15:34 Let me check if it works 10:16:45 Went nowhere. 10:16:53 what was it? 10:16:54 elliott: too late now, I think. And I'd have to convert like 100 gigs of mp3s to vorbis, which would incur a slight quality loss. 10:17:01 n=0;i='+';d='-';o=';print n;';s='*=n*(n!=16)*';while 1:exec "n"+input()+"=n>0" 10:17:06 CakeProphet: s/slight/awful/ 10:17:22 elliott: I may convert any other FLACs I accumulate to ogg, however. 10:17:27 Lymia: oh, nice 10:17:46 CakeProphet: man, I refuse to believe you couldn't have backed all those precious flacs up by buying a cheapo external drive :) 10:17:57 IT'S LIKE MURDER 10:18:28 well, that script actually doesn't delete them. But yes I did immediately do a find . -name *.flac -delete after it finished. :P 10:19:02 monser :( 10:19:13 elliott. 10:19:14 Yeah. 10:19:18 +t 10:19:20 monster 10:19:28 Anything I can think of makes s larger 10:19:37 Lymia: darn 10:19:39 Too large to be acceptable. 10:20:33 Lymia: note that exec "n[percent]s=n>0"[percent]input() is one byte shorter 10:20:41 I know. 10:20:45 I already thought of that. 10:20:51 ... 10:20:57 Did lifthrasiir actually do that yet? 10:21:07 do what 10:21:17 %ify 10:21:24 lifthrasiir did mention something about saving space with formatting in that way 10:21:27 which made me suspicious :) 10:21:38 would he write it out to check just for us? no, surely his solution involves it ;D 10:23:17 tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope 10:23:22 i like how that hostname reveals all his previous nicks :D 10:23:26 similar, but my code has fewer semicolons. 10:24:01 Well. 10:24:05 Now that I think of it. 10:24:10 I have quite a few possibilities to try. 10:24:16 elliott. 10:24:27 Could we do something involving input%[something] 10:24:27 elliott: so what was your suggested change to my script? 10:24:31 Please stop that pinging-on-a-separate-line thing :P 10:24:38 CakeProphet: to replace it with that echo :D 10:24:44 Lymia: Define [something] 10:24:46 shit, IO in haskell is too hard. 10:24:47 ...oh right. 10:25:00 too hard as in it uses a lot of bytes? 10:25:28 lifthrasiir: naw it's not :) 10:25:34 oerjan's deadfish in haskell is pretty tiny already 10:25:34 elliott, that's the thing. 10:25:38 I believe oerjan can help you with haskell golfing, since he's a Haskell wizard. 10:25:39 * elliott considers golfing his own 10:25:44 no, getting it work (with a reasonablly minimal code) is hard 10:25:46 It needs to be 2 chars or more, right? 10:25:53 CakeProphet: hey i at /least/ count as an apprentice >:) 10:25:53 Otherwise, it would be no benefit 10:26:08 TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting 10:26:08 Urg. 10:26:09 WHY 10:26:12 I might try a Perl golf tomorrow.. 10:26:52 Lymia: usually means you have two many tuple elements and not enough %'s 10:26:55 *too 10:27:03 CakeProphet, I know. 10:27:33 elliott: I'm not too shabby with Haskell myself. But I'm certainly not advanced. 10:29:03 the terse lambda syntax will be very helpful with haskell golfing I think. 10:29:11 i doubt that will help deadfish :) 10:29:19 n=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0>';o=';print ';s='*=(n!=16)*';while 1:exec "n%sn"%input() 10:29:20 Damnit. 10:29:21 So close. 10:29:36 0> 10:29:37 you mean 0< 10:29:54 Yes 10:30:02 yeah, i finally got it work. i wonder why i put the redundant return... 10:30:04 n=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<';o=';print ';s='*=(n!=16)*';while 1:exec"n%sn"%input() 10:30:06 n=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<';o=';print ';s='*=(n!=16)*';while 1:exec'n%sn'%input() 10:30:06 Reduced a space... 10:30:08 one byte shaved 10:30:08 :D 10:30:09 163 bytes for now. 10:30:10 i like how that hostname reveals all his previous nicks :D <-- well technically not uorygl (which i still see him using on reddit) 10:30:20 lifthrasiir: too much C style programming probably. :P 10:30:50 n=0;i='+=1';d='-=0 Lymia: meh... 10:30:55 CakeProphet, no, my current approach is as follows: foldl (>>=) (return 0) [f "i", f "s", ...] on the IO monad. 10:31:13 ah 10:31:16 i think it is not quite imperative... 10:31:18 lifthrasiir: you may find the sequence function relevant 10:31:19 :t sequence 10:31:20 forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m [a] 10:31:30 or hm 10:31:34 ?pl foldl (>>=) 10:31:34 foldl (>>=) 10:32:03 ?hoogle [a -> a -> m a] -> m a -> m a 10:32:03 Data.Foldable foldlM :: (Foldable t, Monad m) => (a -> b -> m a) -> a -> t b -> m a 10:32:03 Control.Monad foldM :: Monad m => (a -> b -> m a) -> a -> [b] -> m a 10:32:04 Data.Foldable foldrM :: (Foldable t, Monad m) => (a -> b -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b 10:32:09 hmmmmm 10:32:25 elliott, uhm, (f instr v) returns a new value of accumulator, so it has to be folded. 10:32:35 I'm almost positive a Perl version would just s/// everything 10:32:35 and i'm trying not to use imports ;) 10:32:50 CakeProphet, s///ge, i think. 10:32:56 lifthrasiir: right 10:32:57 ..well, yes. 10:33:09 lifthrasiir: are you repeating f all those times? 10:33:19 oerjan: presumably he is using map... 10:33:24 oerjan, of course using map. 10:33:42 main = getContents >>= (\x -> foldl (>>=) (return 0) $ map f $ lines x) 10:33:53 that's an expanded version right :D 10:34:11 elliott, I've got nothing. 10:34:18 ?pl (\x -> foldl (>>=) (return 0) $ map f $ lines x) 10:34:18 foldl (>>=) (return 0) . map f . lines 10:34:20 as i'm very new to haskell, i think it has a room for improvements. 10:34:20 lifthrasiir: you can use foldl ((>>=).f) i think 10:34:33 er 10:34:33 uh, right. 10:34:46 pl ftw 10:34:49 main=getContents>>=foldl((>>=).f)(return 0).map f.lines 10:34:53 or something 10:34:53 erm 10:34:56 main=getContents>>=foldl((>>=).f)(return 0).lines 10:34:56 that's wrong argument order, slightly 10:34:58 or something 10:35:23 oh I see, yes it is. 10:35:30 easier with foldr, that trick 10:35:42 02:56:45: bsmntbombdood is 15, clog is prolly <5, GregorR is... 18? immibis wouldn't tell me his age :P lament is older, i'm 18, pikhq is 17, RodgerTheGreat is 19, Sgeo is... 17? (random guess), SimonRC is... 17? 10:35:45 yeah gregor is eighteen 10:36:03 hm actually shouldn't it be foldr anyhow 10:36:10 Here is where we stand. 10:36:10 5#esoteric740.091811/05/16 19:25:470B / 37B / 32B 10:36:14 1lifthrasiir710.093311/05/16 17:50:490B / 33B / 36B 10:36:19 Here is our target. 10:36:21 Lymia: um 10:36:23 we have seventy-three 10:36:31 did you submit a version with borked linebreaks? 10:36:37 i was going to submit it myself because i know how to fix that :) 10:37:02 I have a Unix system. 10:37:10 and? 10:37:12 http is still \r\n 10:37:16 which is why you need to upload a file instead 10:37:22 and also strip off the final newline from the file 10:37:27 Ah. 10:38:05 you will find :set noeol binary is helpful in vim. 10:38:08 lifthrasiir: ok maybe the argument order problem means you cannot save over map anyway 10:38:17 elliott, you submit it. 10:38:19 oerjan, i think so. 10:38:31 lifthrasiir: also it should be foldr, i'm pretty sure 10:38:47 er wait hm 10:39:00 Lymia: not until we shave off a byte :P 10:39:21 0B / 33B / 36B 10:39:24 0B / 37B / 32B 10:39:25 eh, it should be foldl, as >>= should be called in the input order 10:39:29 Note the changed balance. 10:39:41 -4 alphanum 10:39:44 hm ok i'm just disturbed that you thus require a finite input :) 10:39:51 +4 symbols 10:40:07 Lymia: are we cheating with lifthrasiir's stat count?? :D 10:40:12 @pl (\x op -> x >>= f op) 10:40:12 (. f) . (>>=) 10:40:17 oerjan, it *has* to be finite. :p 10:40:27 elliott, yes. 10:40:41 lifthrasiir: standard deadfish has no steenking need for finite input 10:40:47 Making 2 bytes of newline 10:40:56 but it is a golfing, with only three examples. :p 10:40:57 but i'll grant the golf examples probably are 10:41:12 @pl (\v -> print v >> return v) 10:41:12 liftM2 (>>) print return 10:41:12 Our total adds up to 69 10:41:14 What isn't counted? 10:41:17 darn. 10:41:24 Lymia: newlines maybe 10:41:31 lifthrasiir: @pl says it would be foldl ((.f).(>>=)) which is obviously too many extra chars 10:41:55 ?pl 33+36 10:41:55 69 10:41:58 ?pl 37+32 10:41:58 69 10:42:21 pl as an evaluator :D 10:42:22 Symbol is [!\"\#$%&'()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\\]^_`{|}~]. 10:42:28 Lymia, there is some characters not in any categories. 10:42:33 main = getContents >>= (\x -> foldl (>>=) (return 0) $ map f $ lines x) <-- aka main = getContents >>= foldl (>>=) (return 0) . map f . lines 10:42:35 I know. 10:42:36 Which are? 10:42:41 oh elliott already said 10:42:48 04:08:27: does glass-0.12 support input? 10:42:48 04:11:44: does glass-0.12 support input? 10:42:48 04:11:50: as in, the I class? 10:42:49 04:14:35: i repeat: does glass-0.12 support input? 10:42:49 04:14:45: glass-0.7 doesn't. 10:42:53 Lymia, whitespaces. 10:42:55 immibis' patience is astonishing 10:43:32 oerjan, yeah pointfree style is turned out to be quite helpful in golfing... ;) 10:43:55 Glass has the most sophisticated object oriented input handling of all esolangs 10:43:58 !!!! 10:44:09 apart from ORK 10:44:10 :D 10:44:18 lifthrasiir, so, eh. 10:44:21 it's a tough contest. 10:44:33 I need to invent a new esolang. It's been a while. 10:44:44 Are the prefixes and postfixes consisting of letters? 10:44:51 Although the prospect of updating http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ehird deters me somewhat. 10:44:53 I've got a concept for a poetry-based language. 10:44:58 but that's about as far as I've gotten. 10:45:02 Have you SEEN the code to that thing???? 10:45:28 not I. but the sun is starting to rise, which means I should go to sleep. 10:45:36 good night, all. 10:45:55 who the hell goes to sleep that early :o 10:46:07 Lymia, hmm, does it matter? 10:46:09 <<< 10:46:10 that's like 10:46:15 going to sleep as soon as you wake up 10:46:18 you've only been up like 10:46:20 twenty hours 10:46:21 ridiculous 10:46:30 elliott: hey we do have a way to use div and span now, remember? 10:46:33 lifthrasiir, does it? 10:46:47 oerjan: yes but I'm not about to _port_ that page 10:47:05 oerjan: besides the template engine would probably go out back and shoot itself. 10:49:16 elliott. 10:49:18 I'll purge your user page. 10:49:33 But seirously. 10:49:36 seriously* 10:49:38 Don't make me write a script to drop lines whose contents are "elliott." 10:49:41 :P 10:49:43 elliott, what's up with the user page? 10:49:49 Lymia: What's up with it??? It's AWESOME. 10:49:52 It seems simple enough to modify. 10:49:53 It's Snowman in the Land of Snow. 10:50:03 Lymia: Dude, it features a u tag inside an i tag inside a b tag. 10:50:06 Emulating a list. 10:50:17 128 bytes. 10:51:01 for anyone interested, my entry is: r=return;f"i"v=r(v+1);f"d"v=r$max(v-1)0;f"s"16=r 0;f"s"v=r$v*v;f"o"v=print v>>r v;main=getContents>>=foldl(>>=)(r 0).map f.lines 10:51:05 lifthrasiir, I cannot determine the magic of which you used 10:51:39 Lymia, hmm, my prefix consists of one byte, and suffix (yes i have one) consists of two bytes. 10:52:15 and as i'm going to go home i'll be afk from now on... good luck on golfing. :) 10:52:25 um doesn't the contest keep the 256 wrapping rule? 10:52:42 oerjan: yes but it only tests it by squaring 10:52:43 never by incrementing 10:52:54 >:) 10:53:01 huh :D 10:53:11 nice cheat i guess 10:54:13 iissds[31 is] 10:54:17 Shortest way to test it I can think of. 10:54:18 So yeah. 10:55:26 hm, lessee, r=return;f"s"16=r 0 vs r 256=r 0;r n=return n 10:55:53 i guess the cheat save 3 chars 10:56:03 *saves 10:57:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:26 n=0;i='+=1';d='-=n>0';o=';print n';s='*=n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec"n%s"%input() 10:58:30 Can we trim three bytes off that? 10:58:46 exec'n'+input() 10:58:46 duh :) 10:59:25 well that was two 10:59:38 elliott, yes, but that's longer 10:59:45 um no 10:59:47 it is not 10:59:49 Or do we not trust lifthrasiir. 10:59:56 lifthrasiir used a suffix, duh 10:59:59 Yep. 11:00:03 you aren't 11:00:05 using a suffix 11:00:07 so + is shorter 11:00:11 And what suffix can you use to trim that down? 11:00:18 dunno 11:00:35 Is there anything other than n that makes sense? 11:00:43 As a prefix. 11:00:50 n=n, maybe 11:04:47 n=0;i='+1';d='-n>0';o=';print n';s='*n*(n!=16)';while 1:exec"n=n%s"%input() 11:04:50 What kind of postfix would help? 11:05:07 Dunno. 11:05:17 Perhaps n)? 11:05:25 Then s='*n*(16!=' 11:05:31 And o=';print(' 11:05:39 And d='-(0<' 11:05:48 And i='+1;(' 11:09:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:09:19 1 char longer 11:10:12 Is there any way n can be better than n=n 11:10:17 Dunno. 11:10:21 ais523: hi, we're golfing 11:10:24 hi 11:10:49 -!- HolyBlood has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:12:45 similar, but my code has fewer semicolons. 11:12:47 How do you manage that? 11:13:02 Lymia, hmm, my prefix consists of one byte, and suffix (yes i have one) consists of two bytes. 11:13:05 What useful non-- 11:13:07 Wait a second. 11:14:43 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec"p"+input() 11:14:45 One byte'd 11:14:50 What's with the p. 11:14:51 ... 11:14:52 Oh god. 11:14:53 That's... 11:14:56 That's perverse. 11:15:01 -!- HolyBlood has joined. 11:15:07 OK I can beat this record of yours. 11:15:50 And then... 11:16:16 How do you reduce that? 11:16:18 p=0;i='+=1;(';d='-=(0<';o='rint(';s='*=p*(16!=';while 1:exec'p%sp)'%input() 11:16:19 Dammit. 11:16:21 That's longer. 11:18:01 Lymia: P.S. Stop using double-quoted strings, they're ugly. :p 11:18:16 k 11:18:27 Hmmmm 11:18:37 This is tricky. 11:18:44 Wait. 11:18:48 lifthrasiir: Your record is seventy-two bytes, right? 11:18:51 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 11:18:53 That's seventy-two bytes. 11:18:59 Or is your... 11:19:02 No, your record is seventy-one. 11:19:14 God. 11:19:18 Why did my brain come up with that idea? 11:19:26 Lymia: Using p? 11:19:30 Yeah 11:19:31 Yeah, I'm pretty scared of you for that one. 11:19:39 That's... breaking levels of abstraction that were not meant to be broken. 11:19:52 Keyword abuse? 11:19:54 >.> 11:20:07 hmm 11:20:10 what on earth could his suffix be 11:20:16 elliott. 11:20:23 Think he did the 'p' thing too, or did he do something else? 11:20:28 * Lymia needs to stop doing the highlight thing 11:20:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:20:36 I suspect he did the p thing too. 11:20:42 He said that something I thought didn't matter mattered a lot. 11:20:51 I'd said previously that his h variable was cute but didn't really matter. 11:21:13 Hey. 11:21:23 If he didn't use it, ask him if he has the string "rint" in his program. 11:21:26 i'm back, finally you found it... ;) 11:21:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:21:38 (yes the first one is p-rint thing.) 11:21:41 * Lymia stabs lifthrasiir in the heart 11:21:50 * Lymia steals and eats said heart 11:21:55 ugh 11:22:00 now Lymia is the lizard queen 11:22:11 hmmm 11:22:12 * Lymia gets heartburn 11:22:15 what could the second thing be... 11:22:16 Too meaty. 11:22:25 We should go for 80 bytes. 11:23:14 we've already got below that... 11:23:20 70*] 11:23:25 well, yes, that's the goal 11:23:25 ** 11:23:32 Take it to PM? 11:23:32 but we need to replicate lifthrasiir's achievement first :) 11:23:36 naw 11:23:43 nobody in here is going to run off with the solution or anything 11:23:50 Except me. 11:23:53 and there's plenty of good golfers that might be able to help :P 11:24:10 ais523: this is what we have right now, for the amusement factor: p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 11:24:39 And then... 11:24:57 elliott: what are you golfing, specifically? 11:25:12 Deadfish? 11:25:21 Deadfish, where 255+1 = 256 11:25:22 ais523: Deadfish, with the caveat that all input is on a line of its own 11:25:28 and 255+1 is never tested 11:25:34 but 16*16 is? 11:25:37 oh, and occasionally "h" is used at the end, but we just let it error out to halt and that's fine 11:25:38 ais523: indeed 11:25:38 yes 11:25:46 the key to understanding the above is to note that python's input() evals 11:25:51 [asterisk]Python's 11:25:54 hmm, what an arbitrary set of conditions 11:26:02 ais523: meh 11:26:04 the h thing is irrelevant 11:26:10 since examples do not test the interpreters thoroughly 11:26:14 the 255+1 thing ... well, Deadfish's wrapping is insane anyway 11:26:17 yep, I meant the 255+1 thing 11:26:59 God. 11:27:03 We managed to make Python look like perl. 11:27:05 "It's f-ing fast[exclamation mark]" --IE9 web ad 11:27:08 Should we be proud? 11:27:09 that... 11:27:12 Microsoft... 11:27:15 Lymia: this doesn't really look like perl 11:27:22 perl golfing results have a lot more symbols 11:27:32 Oh. 11:28:13 lifthrasiir: Can you reveal the first character of your prefix? :-D 11:28:22 elliott, hold on~ 11:28:24 I want to try something 11:28:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:29:31 p=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<=';o='rint ';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%sp'%input() 11:29:33 This is 1 byte longer 11:29:35 elliott: nope. ;) 11:29:47 So, elliott. 11:29:49 lifthrasiir: second byte? :D 11:29:51 but i think you are very close to my solution 11:29:53 Can we use (operation)p 11:29:59 Lymia: eh? 11:30:21 p=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<';o='rint ';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%sp'%input() 11:30:23 the equal sign was unnecessary 11:30:24 this is equal now 11:30:45 oh wait 11:30:46 i'm trying some alternative approaches, without success so far. 11:30:47 still one char over 11:30:48 elliott, it is. 11:30:53 still one char over 11:30:56 0 n starts at 0 11:31:10 So... 11:31:16 It reaches -1 11:31:35 eh? 11:31:48 0<0 = false 11:31:49 So... 11:31:49 Oh. 11:32:01 0<1 = true 11:32:01 Yeah 11:32:03 That works. 11:32:11 one approach was scrapping while at all, but it is a lot longer... 11:32:54 to scrap* 11:36:28 What types can be converted to int? 11:36:33 With no function calls. 11:39:19 bool. 11:39:39 other numbers will coerce the other int to the type of itself 11:43:11 elliott, hold on. 11:44:15 Holding. 11:45:15 I recall managing to take 1 byte out of the n=n version 11:45:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:45:22 Phantom_Hoover: qjowewoqiej 11:45:30 ... 11:45:30 Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 11:45:33 Take it to PM? <-- #esoteric, where the most on-topic conversations are being asked to take it to pm 11:45:49 oerjan, in this case, it's for secrecy's sake. 11:45:58 How did my connection time out _through an ethernet cable_. 11:46:36 Phantom_Hoover: Your router: it is fucked. 11:48:41 We do call connecters "female" and "male" 11:50:48 Phantom_Hoover: ran out of electrons 11:54:55 a seven to 11:56:56 router fucked? don't worry, i fix 11:56:57 http://fukung.net/v/30871/9fc6f08b367a738e4cf60d17a790e607.jpg 12:03:28 -!- HolyBlood has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:04:39 02:56:45: bsmntbombdood is 15, clog is prolly <5, GregorR is... 18? immibis wouldn't tell me his age :P lament is older, i'm 18, pikhq is 17, RodgerTheGreat is 19, Sgeo is... 17? (random guess), SimonRC is... 17? 12:04:41 I'm not on the list. 12:04:42 What gives. 12:05:37 and neither am I 12:06:04 although my age is probably publicly available 12:06:04 which is useful, as I can no longer remember what it is 12:06:05 (although I just mentally calculated it at 24) 12:06:10 that was from 07. 12:06:18 unless Lymia used to be someone else here. 12:06:36 pikhq_: Worrying things: when Debian decides to identify as "wheezy/sid". 12:07:50 elliott, how old am I then? 12:08:10 I don't know. 12:08:25 FWIW, I only quoted that line because of how hilariously wrong it is, so I could just make up a number if you wanted. 12:08:32 Make up? 12:08:33 ' 3' 12:08:43 Lymia: you're 11. 12:08:48 Yes. 12:08:48 Lymia: i think they are all represented in hexadecimal. 12:08:51 thought so 12:09:07 lifthrasiir: plausible :D 12:09:42 or only applicable to some other planet than earth. 12:10:33 elliott, you have a more serious guess? 12:10:34 I'm curious. 12:11:18 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:11:21 you must be rather young because you're asking, but you never talk so how could anyone know 12:11:47 Lymia: i'm terrible at estimating people's ages 12:11:57 especially because i always inflate the estimate to avoid offending people or something? 12:12:23 i guess it's kind of hard to guess when your frame of reference is fucked up enough that nobody can guess /yours/ :) 12:13:00 Heh. 12:13:16 oklofok, stop using loic. 12:13:17 logic* 12:13:33 i'm gonna guess Lymia is 16 because it's a very neutral age 12:13:57 Lymia: i would never use logic 12:14:48 lifthrasiir, is the other reduction also perverse? 12:14:52 yeah 16 sounds vaguely right 12:14:56 that guess is just based on the ring of it 12:14:57 reduction! 12:14:58 logic is irrelevant ofc 12:15:09 i used a reduction today 12:15:13 to prove P = NP 12:15:19 i did have some assumptions tho 12:15:31 Lymia: now you have to report on the accuracy of our guess 12:15:58 mmm 12:16:06 It's a guess, so +-infinity 12:16:26 -!- HolyBlood has joined. 12:16:33 well maybe */infinity, but certainly not +- 12:16:35 Lymia: Oh come on, you can't openly solicit guesses then be coy about it. 12:16:48 You're off by 2. 12:17:07 14 ;D 12:17:39 You're off by +-4 12:17:50 10 12:17:55 Yes. 12:17:57 wooo math prob 12:18:08 right, sixteen is two off from ten 12:18:08 too hard tho 12:18:12 LOGIC 12:18:15 * Lymia is quite sure she mentioned being in grade school in here 12:18:22 what the fuck is grade school 12:18:35 she? are you femaly? 12:18:43 Anything below college and above kindergarten. 12:18:46 also *female 12:18:48 wait are you saying you're actually 10 because sixteen is so not two off from ten :D 12:19:11 oklofok: "femaly" is a really great word 12:19:19 yes, that's why i almost didn't correct it 12:19:21 possibly even the beestst word 12:19:54 elliott, I'm not 10. 12:19:54 Lymia: i'm currently looking for a gf/fuckbuddy, are you in finland by any chance? 12:20:00 oklofok, pedophile. 12:20:15 actually i did manage to solve the problem 12:20:22 see, i'm a mathematician 12:20:27 ,addquote all that text 12:20:36 oh oklopol, you so wacky 12:20:43 elliott, I'm 14. 12:20:46 wiat what 12:20:48 You have been golfing with a little girl. 12:20:51 Pedophile. 12:20:55 14 ;D 12:20:55 You're off by +-4 12:20:57 horrible lies :( 12:21:07 Lymia: wait someone younger than me in here who isn't an idiot? 12:21:08 +-4 includes a difference by "0" 12:21:09 that's not allowed : ( 12:21:14 wanting to have sex with a 14yo doesn't make you a pedophile 12:21:27 technically correct. the best kind of correct 12:21:48 wanting to have sex with someone who's prepubescent makes you a pedophile 12:22:10 i remember being 14, it was... uh... pretty much like being 15 is to be honest 12:22:29 in fact i would say the experience is effectively equivalent 12:22:33 I remember being 13, it was... uh... pretty much like being 14 is to be honest 12:22:48 Except I was just started in programming 12:22:50 being 21 was way different than being 22 12:22:50 i remember being three, in fact i am three 12:22:57 I am too embarrassed to show code. 12:22:58 WAY different 12:22:59 oklofok, well, yeah. 12:23:02 Lymia: lol you just started programming when you were 13? n00blet 12:23:16 elliott, well, I should add the qualifier "serious" 12:23:19 * elliott desperately tries to forget his horrific age-8 experience with PHP. 12:23:24 so many wasted years : ( 12:23:33 I recall messing with Lego robotics. 12:23:41 i should really have a ph.d. by this point, dunno where it all went wrong 12:23:45 Never managed anything serious, as changing things around got too annoying. 12:24:00 elliott: it went wrong when you encountered the education system 12:24:31 wait shit asiekierka is 13 now isn't he 12:24:48 asiekierka? 12:24:50 You know him? 12:24:55 what? the education system has been great towards elliott 12:25:01 Lymia: yes. he comes here regularly to be a complete and utter idiot. 12:25:10 ok not so regularly nowadays 12:25:28 you know. because he's gay and likes to get fucked in the ass. 12:25:31 wat 12:25:49 ? 12:25:53 i thought that was clear enough 12:26:00 oklofok, that's not a nice thing to say 12:26:17 Lymia: then you didn't get it 12:26:39 Rape is never funny. 12:26:41 :( 12:28:18 well it's different for males, see when we get fucked in the ass we like to brag about it with our buddies 12:28:41 in other words, you still have no idea what i'm talking about 12:28:41 Lymia: lol you just started programming when you were 13? n00blet 12:28:42 Oi! 12:28:52 Phantom_Hoover: nooblet 12:29:17 oklofok, sickos. 12:30:04 oklofok is it possible to die of laughter im just checking 12:30:15 elliott, yes. 12:30:27 Add water to mouth. 12:30:28 Laugh. 12:30:51 i remember being 14, it was... uh... pretty much like being 15 is to be honest 12:31:04 You haven't witnessed the sunny uplands of being 16 yet. 12:31:21 yeah and the transition from 19 to 20, wow THAT was something 12:31:21 I recall messing with Lego robotics. 12:31:32 I once did that for work experience. 12:31:49 Phantom_Hoover how experienced with work would you say you are 12:32:03 Phantom_Hoover, it didn't go well at all. 12:32:22 I recall doing scripts in Touhou Danmakufu around 12, though nothing serious at all. 12:32:38 elliott, well, any work that entails messing around with Lego robots is probably delegatable to me. 12:32:54 Lymia, I don't know what that is but I want to hit you for it on principle. 12:33:07 `addquote Lymia, I don't know what that is but I want to hit you for it on principle. 12:33:08 ​423) Lymia, I don't know what that is but I want to hit you for it on principle. 12:35:52 Phantom_Hoover: pedo 12:36:13 You two are both pathetic, I learnt Lisp like a month after starting programming. 12:36:33 i learnt lisp about 10 years after starting programming 12:36:49 i barfed out the lisp self-interpreter five nanoseconds after the universe began 12:36:54 and i STILL don't know how to make coffee 12:37:21 hey i learnt lisp years before starting programming 12:37:39 or at least i'm sure i read a book about lisp with no access to an implementation 12:37:58 (same with basic, even earlier) 12:38:26 wanting to have sex with a 14yo doesn't make you a pedophile 12:38:30 Yeah, it makes you cheater. 12:38:39 i read a book about c++ when i was 10 or something and found i could program it just fine when i first tried it at 14 or something 12:39:08 i have briefly started entertaining the notion that cheater_ _is_ roman polanski, since he brought up the name 12:39:29 Phantom_Hoover: or a normal adult male 12:40:10 well, depends on what kind of wanting it is i suppose, if your *dick 12:40:15 * minds, that's just weird 12:40:26 oerjan: all the pieces fit except for the fact that cheater does not appear to have any sort of creative talent at all 12:40:33 so... probably... no 12:41:01 ah. good point. 12:41:10 in my mind, cheater is the guy who doesn't do anything particularly anything, and everyone hates him 12:41:21 your mind known as reality 12:42:04 :o 12:42:07 people never say that to me 12:42:24 yes. we are all figments of your imagination. 12:42:40 fortunately it is a very vivid imagination, so we don't really mind. 12:42:41 that would explain a lot. 12:43:12 oh you wouldn't want to be in my imagination 12:43:15 btw oerjan i found your photo again in the logs 12:43:20 it's... obviously not a photo of you i mean come on 12:43:21 well you _might_ want to cut down on the pain and suffering a bit, but otherwise fine. 12:43:27 how gullible do you think we are 12:43:35 oerjan: i'll consider that 12:43:41 elliott, well. 12:44:08 I've found an ASM patch to the Super Mario World ROM from... late 2008 12:44:10 Do I win? 12:44:10 :3 12:44:37 Lymia: is it a golfed Deadfish interp in Python? 12:44:40 if not, probably not 12:44:54 ais523, hey. 12:45:03 hi 12:45:04 I've found an ASM patch to the Super Mario World ROM from... late 2008 12:45:10 asm isn't really coding it's more... munging 12:45:20 Inference states that I first wrote a program before that. 12:45:21 it takes a lot less talent, otoh this means it's difficult if you're actually any good at progrmaming 12:45:38 ais523: in other news, roman numeral look and say seems rather more complicated to analyse than i hoped 12:45:59 oerjan, classical numerals or medieval? 12:46:11 oerjan: that's probably a good thing, right? 12:46:13 it might be TC 12:46:22 elliott, "brute force?" 12:46:22 the IV kinds. the IIII is much more trivial. 12:46:25 Sounds about right. 12:46:25 : 12:46:26 :v 12:46:44 it might be TC 12:46:48 :D 12:46:49 I should revisit hacking at SMW's assembly some day. 12:46:50 that would be so awesome 12:46:53 (with IIII you can only add groups at the beginning, so no exponential growth) 12:47:00 elliott, you want to see some of my earlier code? 12:47:09 It'll be a "pleasant" sight~ 12:47:34 Quite clearly none of you have seen my horrifying sort function written in CL. 12:47:46 Phantom_Hoover: SHOW 12:47:47 Lymia: feeling embarassed at your early code is the sign of a good programmer 12:47:51 And noöne will, since it was on the laptop my father spilt wine onto last night. 12:47:55 ais523: no 12:47:59 it's just a sign of a terrible flawed programmer 12:48:02 Phantom_Hoover: the hard drive probably isn't unrecoverable 12:48:02 if you code 12:48:03 :( 12:48:04 perfectly 12:48:06 from the start 12:48:09 then there's no embarrassment ever 12:48:11 nobody codes perfectly from the start 12:48:14 not even you 12:48:16 elliott, says he who started with PHP. 12:48:24 ais523: haha, what an amazing way to cover up for your insecurities 12:48:30 wonderful denial 12:48:36 PERFECT CODING FROM THE START IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE WAY 12:48:49 elliott: for years the only programming language I had access to was VBA for Excel 12:48:50 we should basically just euthanise everyone who writes an imperfect program basically. 12:48:55 do you really expect me to write perfect code in that? 12:48:55 instant master race of coders. 12:48:57 ais523: yes. 12:49:49 elliott: that means, that you've just admitted that it's possible to write perfect code in VBA 12:49:53 thus I win the argument by default 12:50:11 ais523: you just have to write an interpreter for the perfect language in it first 12:50:15 i'm not saying you can do it 12:50:18 i'm just saying i expect you to 12:50:21 or you will be executed 12:50:30 elliott: but the interpreter wouldn't itself be perfect 12:50:32 due to being written in VBA 12:50:56 then you die. 12:51:29 elliott: vague death threats is not a very good method of winning an argument 12:51:35 * Lymia stabs elliott in the spinal cord. 12:51:35 OK 12:51:40 Death threats fixed. 12:51:49 now actual killing on the other hand... 12:51:56 Lymia: ha ha ha wow you think that can kill me 12:51:59 that's funnyEXCLAMATION MARKS 12:52:04 I don't think I can kill you. 12:52:06 ais523: It's not a threat, I'm simply describing the new regime 12:52:09 I think I can cripple you for life. 12:52:19 ^nr 12:52:28 Lymia, hmm, have you made a Brainfuck derivative? 12:52:41 fungot hath not yet returned :( 12:52:41 Phantom_Hoover, no, not yet. 12:52:44 I've made two BF derivatives, both of which are actually interesting! 12:52:47 not YET 12:52:50 Unless you count that really perverse thing I did for CraftBook. 12:52:55 Lymia, that counts. 12:53:01 because I was looking to explore new computational ground, I just used BF as a base 12:53:12 * Phantom_Hoover brick-brain transplants Lymia. 12:53:18 * Lymia is now bricked 12:53:19 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:53:28 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 12:53:29 BOOT ERR 404: BRAIN NOT FOUND 12:53:51 What now? 12:53:59 THE TIME IS RIGHT 12:54:11 also, rapture in 5 days, i hear 12:54:18 OFGLED BLEG FLOJMONT 12:54:26 oerjan, yes. 12:54:56 The atheists and non-radical Christians will be saved, 12:55:01 All others have done too much wrong. 12:55:08 HAVE YOU REPENTED YOUR BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE SINS YET? 12:55:16 Lymia: what about agnostics? 12:55:19 (and non-radical :NOT_CHRISTIAN_RELIGION:) 12:55:20 ais523, sure. 12:55:29 what about maratreans 12:55:48 What? 12:55:51 oerjan, no. 12:56:16 AGNOSTICS MUST PERISH 12:56:36 elliott, I don't know about that. 12:56:49 maratreans, maytreyans and mithraists 12:57:15 *maitreyans 12:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: hyuk hyuk hyuk 12:57:40 Phantom_Hoover, http://craftbook.sk89q.com/wiki/Perlstone < does this count as a BF derivative? 12:57:52 If you're asking, the goal was to make something that fits onto Minecraft's 15x4 signs. 12:58:01 I'm not sure if I succeeded. 12:58:13 "Perlstone is a surname that belongs to some special Australian's" 12:58:32 some special australian's what 12:58:35 Lymia, that doesn't look very BF-y at all. 12:58:41 Phantom_Hoover, heh. 12:58:46 ais523: which are your bf derivatives, btw? 12:58:47 It's stack based, after all. 12:58:53 The loop construct is kinda-BF-derived 12:58:56 * Phantom_Hoover reverses the brick-brain transplant. 12:59:08 * Lymia had a backup server in her torso 12:59:13 elliott: reversible BF, DoFuck 12:59:19 Although you are not forgiven for not using dc. 12:59:28 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:59:43 hm i helped invent dimensifuck, didn't i 13:00:13 * Phantom_Hoover brickbrains oerjan, moves onto ais523 before realising he is out of bricks. 13:00:41 I think DoFuck is TC, but I'm not entirely sure if it's BF-complete (in fact, it almost certainly isn't due to having no way to write a program that sometimes produces output and sometimes doesn't, although it might be if you allow backspace to delete characters) 13:00:59 * Lymia bricks Phantom_Hoover's brain with Rabies 13:01:22 I haven't made a Brainfuck derivative! 13:01:50 Let's make Functionfuck 13:02:17 If that is Brainfuck with functions then I am going to have to use oerjan's brick on you. 13:02:17 Brainfuck and Unlambda's evil child. 13:02:32 Phantom_Hoover, no, no. 13:02:36 Brainfuck except functional. 13:02:43 You can use church numerals for numbers. 13:02:51 ais523: oerjan: Can we all take a moment to stare sternly at http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Feather&curid=3601&diff=22891&oldid=20446 13:03:01 especially the fact that it's marked as minor 13:03:07 * Phantom_Hoover stares sternly. 13:03:19 I don't really think the article gets the Feather situation across too well, so I'd just call it an honest mistake 13:03:29 doesn't matter, the sternness continues unabated 13:03:36 still, adding a category like that should never be a minor edit, should it? 13:03:47 it could be if it had just been left off by mistake 13:04:04 e.g. [[Category:2011]] on an article that specifically says the lang was created in 2011 13:04:16 [[Category:2011]] isn't a Category Like That 13:05:03 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 13:05:06 Lymia: This is the best we've got so far, right? 13:05:11 Yes. 13:05:21 OK, so we know there's a two-byte suffix. 13:05:27 that is known. 13:05:29 Lymia, hmm, I'd say that was a stupid idea and abandon it, but I have lost the ability to abandon stupid ideas. 13:06:06 lifthrasiir: Is the suffix p)? Is the suffix +p? Is the suffix *p? 13:06:26 hmm, I think a!=b should expand to a=a!b, for consistency 13:06:34 (and ! is totally a binary operator in BCPL) 13:06:45 what does it do in BCPL? 13:06:54 a!b in BCPL is equivalent to a[b] in C 13:07:07 Phantom_Hoover, ([code]) = store function cell 13:07:08 although BCPL is untyped 13:07:15 a = apply last cell to current cell. 13:07:23 which means you can do it on arbitrary integers if you really want to, without even needing casts 13:07:27 >< = the same... 13:07:35 Lymia, no, that is not stupid enough. 13:07:42 k 13:07:49 Lymia: BF operations don't look at more than one cell 13:07:54 elliott, right. 13:08:05 What would the brainchild of Unlambda and Brainfuck be then? 13:08:17 is deadfish up on anagolf yet? 13:08:21 Lymia: hideous 13:08:26 ais523: it's been up for days 13:08:27 Let's make it? 13:08:35 Lymia: no, I need to beat lifthrasiir first 13:08:42 ah yes 13:08:55 elliott. 13:08:58 Try those prefixes. 13:09:00 Then try... 13:09:09 the prefix is p, undoubtedly 13:09:12 Dunno. 13:09:14 postfixes* 13:09:27 I'm still annoyed that 13:09:28 p=0;i='+=1;(';d='-=(0<';o='rint(';s='*=p*(16!=';while 1:exec'p%sp)'%input() 13:09:29 isn't it 13:09:32 it seems so close 13:10:12 sp? 13:10:17 elliott: what about just p for suffix 13:10:17 Oh right. 13:10:21 no ) 13:10:31 !c printf("%d %d %d", 'i', 'o', 's'); 13:10:34 ​105 111 115 13:10:39 oerjan: we know lifthrasiir's suffix is two bytes :) 13:10:50 ais523: cakeprophet came up with some formulas that make them sequential, IIRC 13:10:52 yes but have you tried it? 13:10:54 !c printf("%d %d %d %d", 'i', 'd', 'o', 's'); 13:10:56 ​105 100 111 115 13:11:04 oerjan: well, no; I will 13:11:17 printf("%d %d %d %d", 'i', 'd', 'o', 's', 'h'); 13:11:20 hmm I think I have maybe 13:11:23 !c printf("%d %d %d %d", 'i', 'd', 'o', 's', 'h'); 13:11:25 ​105 100 111 115 13:11:28 !c printf("%d %d %d %d %d", 'i', 'd', 'o', 's', 'h'); 13:11:30 ​105 100 111 115 104 13:11:34 His formulas fail. 13:11:35 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 13:11:36 p=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<';o='rint ';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%sp'%input() 13:11:36 nope 13:11:38 h = d 13:11:40 Actually. 13:11:40 lengthens it 13:11:45 That WOULD be acceptable. 13:11:50 As long as o didn't follow. 13:12:05 nothing follows h 13:12:36 Yep. 13:16:30 hm what's boolean not in python? 13:17:11 and can it be applied to a numeral? 13:17:29 !help languages 13:17:29 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 13:17:36 no python :( 13:18:03 `run python -e 'print "test" 13:18:03 The most esoteric language of them all. 13:18:04 No output. 13:18:05 English 13:18:06 `run python -e 'print "test"' 13:18:07 No output. 13:18:13 f 13:18:22 `run python -c 'print "test"' 13:18:24 ​test 13:18:39 `run python -c 'print (!2)' 13:18:40 No output. 13:19:02 i take it python has no short boolean not 13:19:25 `run python -c 'print (!2)' 2>&1 13:19:26 ​File "", line 1 \ print (!2) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax 13:19:35 hm what's boolean not in python? 13:19:36 "not" 13:19:39 and can it be applied to a numeral? 13:19:39 yes 13:19:40 bah 13:19:50 and try egobot 13:19:51 elliott: well that doesn't help replace 0< 13:19:57 I /think/ it has python? 13:20:00 EgoBot has no python, i said 13:20:00 elliott. 13:20:09 I highlight you. 13:20:12 oerjan: it's not, not [exclamation mark] 13:20:28 elliott: I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MORON 13:20:34 Also. 13:20:38 I just made the best quine ever. 13:20:42 #!/bin/cat 13:20:47 * oerjan is starting to get irritated again 13:20:55 oerjan: o.o 13:21:06 oerjan: uh, chill? 13:21:08 Lymia: old 13:21:12 :[ 13:22:03 hmm, I've got the Perl down to 71 13:22:10 $p=$p~~[-1,256]||$p+1,/d/?$p-=2:/o/?print--$p,$/:/s/&&($p=--$p**2)for<> 13:22:11 | 13:22:11 /| 13:22:12 elliott: i _really_ shouldn't try programming when i'm in this mood 13:22:14 Is it line noise? 13:22:22 that implements the whole spec, including 255+1 = 0 13:22:30 Lymia: myndzi certainly seems to think so :D 13:22:35 ais523: sheehs, start cheating already 13:22:39 [asterisk]sheesh 13:22:45 Can you cut out +1 support? 13:22:49 \o\ 13:22:54 /o/ 13:22:57 :[ 13:22:59 ais523: what's with the -- in the squaring? 13:23:00 not obviously 13:23:09 Lymia: nick alignment, you need spaces 13:23:10 elliott: because the bit at the start always increments p 13:23:20 in order to get it to output 0 rather than "" 13:23:27 if an o command is run right at the start 13:24:03 ais523: it never is 13:24:05 so you don't have to 13:24:06 well 13:24:10 i don't think 13:25:13 elliott: this is ais523, lawful good programmer you're talking to :P 13:25:25 elliott: it is 13:25:29 in the third set 13:25:41 I'd have not done that messing around if it wasn't necessary, as I wouldn't even have noticed there was a problem 13:25:43 lifthrasiir: just oooone measly hint? :DDD 13:26:01 been drawing a blank for hours now 13:26:14 elliott: how many chars is lifthrasiir beating you with? 13:26:18 oerjan: one 13:26:29 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 13:26:34 the only bit of info we know is 13:26:49 his looks like while 1:exec'p%sXY'%input() 13:26:51 for some XY 13:27:10 and you've tried p) 13:27:14 yes 13:27:26 and just plain p 13:27:45 and p=p prefix only worsened things, right? 13:27:53 that destroys the rint trick 13:27:59 so, yeah, we gave up on that hours ago :P 13:28:02 right 13:28:10 the rint trick was the one that got us down to this count 13:28:51 i don't see how p suffix should make it _longer_? 13:28:51 hmm 13:29:05 it takes up bytes to have it there 13:29:09 they don't pay their debt 13:29:12 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 13:29:12 p=0;i='+=1;';d='-=0<';o='rint ';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%sp'%input() 13:29:14 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:29:18 it lengthens i, shortens d,o,s 13:29:50 and requires 3 extra chars, sigh 13:30:27 which means whatever lifthrasiir uses must save _4_ chars otherwise 13:30:43 What can be reduced from everything at the end? 13:30:47 He said he used less semicolons? 13:30:57 ah 13:31:31 Only i i and o are used 13:31:33 Erm. 13:31:35 At the start 13:32:17 Might it be possible to kill the p=0? 13:32:50 -!- elliott has joined. 13:32:53 that was about the old version 13:32:58 i don't think the less semicolons thing is true any more 13:33:11 * tswett nods. 13:33:19 tswett: wat 13:33:26 `run python -c 'print p' 13:33:27 No output. 13:33:32 `run python -c 'print p' 2>&1 13:33:33 ​Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ NameError: name 'p' is not defined 13:33:42 Lymia: no, o is done without i before it 13:33:46 in the third test 13:34:00 `run python -c 'p=q=0; print p' 2>&1 13:34:01 ​0 13:34:09 `run python -c 'p=q=2; print p' 2>&1 13:34:10 ​2 13:34:16 bah 13:34:50 it's not good if shell scripts and aptitude tend to exit silently without doing much (or just outputting one line of output), right? 13:35:47 `run python -c 'p=2; p++; print p' 2>&1 13:35:48 ​File "", line 1 \ p=2; p++; print p \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax 13:35:52 (just checking) 13:35:58 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:01 * tswett nods. 13:36:07 tswett: is that a script? 13:36:09 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:11 actually, no it wouldn't, it would multiply by 1 13:36:13 bleh 13:36:13 * tswett nods. 13:36:17 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:18 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:18 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:18 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:19 bleh, why can't you write $p** in order to square $p? it'd be consistent with ++ and -- 13:36:27 elliott: ? 13:36:32 ais523: checking if tswett is a script 13:36:37 Are you expecting me to nod five times? 13:36:40 Yes. 13:36:53 Why would I nod at that? It doesn't begin with my name. 13:36:59 wow, ok, everything is segfaulting 13:37:03 testing is REALLY broken right now 13:37:05 tswett a 13:38:02 Now, that's just silly. 13:38:39 -!- HolyBlood has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:38:55 ais523, quick, say "bleh" 13:39:01 bleh 13:39:07 Huh. 13:39:12 Say "BLUH!" 13:39:19 elliott: you forgot the colon. 13:39:45 tswett: x 13:39:47 tswett: x 13:39:47 tswett: x 13:39:48 tswett: x 13:39:48 tswett: x 13:39:48 tswett: x 13:39:48 tswett: x 13:39:51 tswett: x 13:39:51 * tswett nods. 13:39:52 tswett: a 13:39:54 tswett: a 13:39:56 tswett: a 13:39:58 tswett: a 13:40:00 Whew. I've got it in for myself. 13:40:00 tswett: a 13:40:03 tswett: a 13:40:03 * tswett nods. 13:40:17 My script is running hot. 13:40:18 * tswett nods. 13:40:26 tswett is going to have a hell of a headache after this. 13:40:50 * tswett nods. 13:41:09 I think I've got about ten times to go. 13:42:59 do any of the examples do squaring of numbers above 16? 13:43:07 oerjan: I think so. 13:43:15 What were you thinking? 13:43:36 because otherwise you could cheat more, and use p<16 instead of p!=16 13:43:45 heh 13:43:49 I doubt it is that simple 13:43:51 Lymia? 13:43:52 * tswett nods. 13:43:53 * tswett nods. 13:43:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:44:19 elliott, I have school soon. 13:44:32 PAH 13:44:35 elliott, mmm 13:44:39 I don't think that's going to work. 13:44:40 Nope, that's it. I'm all nodded out. 13:44:43 Look over the examples for me, k? 13:45:17 Bye~ 13:45:25 WAY TOO LAZY 13:46:18 -> 13:47:08 oerjan: <- 13:47:41 elliott, breaks test 2 13:47:41 nope -> 13:47:43 kbai 13:50:34 here's a different approach in Perl at size 77: chomp,/o/?print$p*1,$/:($p+=${{d,$p&&-1,i,1,'s',$p*$p*($p!=16)-$p}}{$_})for<> 13:50:34 | 13:50:35 /< 13:50:40 if only I could turn on auto newline hadnling 13:50:44 *handling 13:50:46 * tswett applauds. 13:51:16 What's being golfed? 13:51:20 Deadfish 13:51:41 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 13:51:41 gah 13:51:43 one character 13:51:45 one character... 13:52:00 i think if he achieves size-four savings elsewhere 13:52:01 it HAS to be in s 13:52:07 that's the only thing long enough to admit such savings 13:52:31 75 using a shebang to turn on autonewline handling 13:52:49 Python seems better at this than Perl due to not needing to screw with shebangs 13:53:10 hmm, evil idea: what if I use $+ as the internal temporary variable? that gets autoincremented on every read 13:53:35 brilliant 13:54:58 I meant $. 13:55:00 wrong variable name! 13:56:04 how could you possibly mistake them 13:58:14 ais523: agreed 13:59:52 ? 14:03:32 elliott: variable + name = agreed 14:04:59 oh 14:29:16 `run python -c 'print 2&3' 14:29:17 ​2 14:29:39 *=p-p&16 14:30:02 elliott: ^ 14:30:06 oerjan: wat 14:30:17 is that the squaring rule? 14:30:37 yes. it breaks but only for numbers >= 32 14:30:47 well like Lymia said, larger then sixteen numbers are tested 14:30:55 32, i said 14:30:55 or have you checked that >= 32 numbers aren't squared? :D 14:31:07 no, i haven't looked at the actual examples 14:31:12 worth a shot though, thanks 14:31:19 and it doesn't break for _all_ numbers >= 32 14:31:30 oh wait damn 14:31:38 ? 14:31:56 it breaks for all numbers between 17 and 31, brain fart 14:32:17 well at least you have a new idea to start with 14:33:26 heh 14:33:31 i am not sure it is such a helpful idea :D 14:37:20 `run python -c 'print 2*2&3' 14:37:21 ​0 14:40:39 what's going on? 14:41:10 lifthrasiir: we're trying to beat or at least tie you, of course 14:41:15 *tie with 14:41:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:42:00 does your code depend on knowing that some numbers won't be squared? 14:42:30 no, that's what i'm trying to figure out. 14:42:43 lifthrasiir: are you sure we can't get _one_ byte of your suffix? :D 14:43:24 oh hm what if the suffix is +p? 14:43:47 would that be interesting 14:43:59 oerjan: i've already asked this, but have received no response 14:44:10 ah, well 14:44:11 it would make i just 1+ 14:44:22 yes, the suffix is indeed "+p". 14:44:39 hmm 14:45:04 oerjan: er, no it wouldn't 14:45:06 not with a one-byte prefix 14:45:12 oh um 14:45:17 it'd make it =1 14:45:18 +=1+ then 14:45:21 no 14:45:24 just =1 14:45:25 er duh 14:45:34 I wonder how minus fits into that 14:45:40 stupid brain 14:45:47 p -= ... + p 14:45:49 hmm 14:45:54 =(-p>0) 14:45:59 er 14:46:07 =(p<0) 14:46:13 argh 14:46:15 ... 14:46:22 -(p>0) 14:46:24 -=(p<0)* 14:46:27 i think you mean 14:46:36 erm p>0 14:46:39 no? 14:46:42 p -= (p>0) [times] +p 14:47:05 um i think =-(p>0) is what i'm aiming for 14:47:14 same thing, isn't it 14:47:19 do you really need a multiplication? 14:47:27 no, it's one char shorter 14:47:34 lifthrasiir: aha, you might not 14:47:43 right 14:48:02 p=0;i='+=1';d='-=p>0';o='rint p';s='*=p*(p!=16)';while 1:exec'p'+input() 14:48:02 p=0;i='=1';d='=-(p<0)';o='rint';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%s+p'%input() 14:48:04 it's still longer :( 14:48:42 well, how about p-=0<+p? 14:48:50 ooh 14:48:51 hey 14:48:55 stop giving away all the secrets :D 14:49:12 that's been three or four hours, so it is enough, right? :p 14:49:18 true :) 14:49:19 ok now this just needs getting one char further down... 14:50:09 hmm 14:50:12 I think this might be the absolute minimum 14:51:03 unless squaring can be shortened 14:51:11 of the current approach. 14:51:21 well, yes. 14:51:36 but i can't really come up with an other idea... 14:51:48 this seems like the most "direct" approach to me. 14:52:43 FYI, "s" is run with a value of 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 16, 17, 99 and 9795. 14:53:13 if some short function can map them into themselves except for 16, then it can be shortened further. 14:53:24 hmm 14:53:42 well p&16 mapped all the ones before 16 to 0 14:54:13 but 17 breaks badly 14:56:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:57:15 since len('(p!=16)*p') == 9, any such function should be at most 8 bytes long 14:57:27 heh 14:57:40 erm the p at the end hardly counts 14:57:47 considering it's "free" with this structure 14:58:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:40 ah, it is correct. then we have 8 bytes that can be freely chosen. 15:02:10 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:03:04 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:05:09 elliott: interesting but failed attempt: 0**(p&16)*p. 15:05:29 nice 15:05:51 0**x is 0 for x>0, 1 for x=0 and otherwise error. 15:05:52 unfortunately too long, right? 15:06:09 yeah, damn parentheses. 15:06:18 wait 15:06:25 it won't work for 17 15:06:32 damn :) 15:09:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:09:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 15:09:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:15:44 pikhq_: Can you sprunge your copy of Grey Mist? I've lost mine. 15:16:02 Grey Mist? 15:16:10 It's this theme I once made. 15:25:43 Found it. 15:29:41 Glad to be of service. 15:29:48 Thank you very much. 15:30:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:31:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:32:12 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 15:34:40 pikhq_: Have you found a Grey Mistish xfwm theme, BTW? The default ones kind of suck. 15:38:59 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:39:00 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 15:39:00 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:39:04 hi ~AnMaster@h168n6c1o291.bredband.skanova.com 15:39:21 elliott: okay, there is no such experssion with at most 5 free bytes 15:39:32 lifthrasiir: did you just exhaustively try every expression? :D 15:39:47 yeah, just for fun. 15:39:59 it would be pretty impressive if there was a 5 byte one :) 15:40:08 I think trying every eight byte one is feasible too -- the character set is pretty restricted 15:40:11 but the length 6-8 is too long... 15:40:12 There's not going to be an x, or an at sign, or anything 15:40:28 p(), arithmetic, exclamation mark, and equals... that's just about it 15:40:49 Arithmetic being plus, minus, asterisk, slash, ampersand, pipe, caret 15:40:51 Maybe that's too much 15:40:57 o = '!%&()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>[]^`p{|}~' 15:40:58 po = '(+-.0123456789[`p{~' 15:41:08 po for the first character, o for the other characters. 15:41:23 hmm, well I do not think you will see [] :) 15:41:31 and i'm pretty sure you won't see { or } 15:41:50 . I doubt very much too, a floating point solution??? 15:42:10 hmm, that's true for at least . 15:42:24 and ; won't happen really... 15:42:27 unless it's the very last char 15:42:30 [] and {} is unlikely but not that impossible. 15:42:41 is 15:42:42 po = '(+-0123456789p~' 15:42:42 o = '!%&()*+-/0123456789;<=>^p|~' 15:42:43 feasible? 15:42:43 erm 15:42:45 without the ; in o 15:43:09 more robust way would be generating the correct formula up to the fixed size, but it is cumbersome. 15:43:37 yeah 15:51:36 US debt limit, get! 15:52:29 Unless Congress decides not to have a giant stick up its ass, the US will default in 11 weeks. 15:52:50 cooooooooooooooooooool 15:52:58 can the us go bankrupt 15:54:01 Yes. 15:54:17 If by "bankrupt" you mean "completely ruin its economy, dragging everyone else down with it". 15:57:20 Congress will never have not have a stick up its ass. 15:59:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:02:34 11:05:06: i stopped reading that - too much cyanide and too little happiness 16:04:59 okay, p*=p;+p is also impossible 16:05:26 and i'm tired of this now 16:05:38 hmm 16:06:05 I was going to sing out the last lyric to Eclipse really loudly 16:06:18 but halfway through I choked and starting laughing instead because it was so uplifting 16:06:28 I'm still laughin 16:06:29 g 16:08:35 ... 16:12:01 -!- augur has joined. 16:16:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:19:19 `quote 16:19:20 ​338) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS. 16:19:21 pikhq_! 16:19:43 Unless Congress decides not to have a giant stick up its ass, the US will default in 11 weeks. 16:19:45 AWESOME 16:33:11 pikhq_: ouch 16:33:19 I fear that'll collapse the entire world economy, even if it shouldn't really 16:33:46 also, why /do/ people lend money to governments, given that they could default by fiat any time they wanted and war would be the only way to stop them? 16:33:54 (and not even war, if the governments lend to their own banks?) 16:56:28 `quote 16:56:29 ​363) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. 16:56:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:56:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:57:36 `quote 16:57:36 `quote 16:57:37 `quote 16:57:37 `quote 16:57:38 `quote 16:57:38 ​329) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 16:57:38 ​269) Vorpal: I'M NOT CLEVER OKAY 16:57:39 ​326) okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" 16:57:40 ​206) Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! 16:57:41 ​381) destroying a local copy of the world is kind of like raping a robochick with a shovel tho 17:09:19 -!- ajf|offline has changed nick to ajf. 17:10:46 -!- monqy has joined. 17:10:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:13:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:16:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Stack underflow). 17:19:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:39:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:42:17 http://i.imgur.com/DAM3y.jpg 17:42:19 :( 17:46:33 Saddest image. 17:47:21 In other news, the sixth years in my school who took chemistry are a bunch of complete bastards. 17:48:18 s/the sixth years in my school who took chemistry/people/ 17:48:19 Their dabbling in explosives has resulted in the school labs being locked down considerably. 17:48:19 FTFY 17:48:37 pikhq_, cynicism != wit. 17:48:47 s/!=/==/ 17:48:49 FTFY 17:52:25 gregorface 17:53:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:53:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:53:32 OK are all Belkin routers crap. 17:53:37 yes 17:53:46 I knew it. 17:55:16 -!- students has joined. 17:55:21 students: how many 17:55:24 -!- students has changed nick to Lymee. 17:55:31 elliott: How goes golfing? 17:55:35 Oh, I thought it was a bunch of bastards. 17:55:45 Hey! 17:55:47 Lymee: p=0;i='=1';d='-=0<';o='rint';s='*=(p!=16)*';while 1:exec'p%s+p'%input() 17:55:52 lifthrasiir revealed his secrets. 17:55:58 Ah. 17:56:06 Lymee: The current thing we need to do is reduce squaring; we seem to be doing this by brute-forcing an expression that works for all valid squaring inputs. 17:56:08 :) 17:56:11 But that's quite difficult. 17:56:14 So there's a lull. 17:56:25 Hey! 17:56:27 Maybe. 17:56:28 and i instead took up a haskell golf challenge instead. :p 17:56:36 now at 114 bytes. 17:56:39 ooh haskell golf 17:56:40 Then I realised you weren't the 6th-year chemistry students at my school. 17:56:45 Is there another way you can take it? 17:56:48 do it* 17:57:17 Lymee: ? 17:57:25 pikhq_ 17:57:30 Do you read Homestuck 17:57:58 lifthrasir: instead did you instead do that because you were instead bored with the old one, instead? 17:58:43 Phantom__Hoover: take it to #esoteric-homestuck 17:58:51 quintopia: yeah and instead i'm bored with instead too. 17:59:00 quintopia, a.k.a. /query elliott 17:59:08 ehehe 17:59:34 Phantom__Hoover: aka esoteric-minecraft 17:59:38 Never mind 17:59:38 Well, I suppose Vorpal doesn't get a say that way, but neither of us care what he says anyway. 17:59:41 I'll be back... 17:59:41 DUAL PURPOSE 17:59:44 When I get home 17:59:46 That's in 2-3 hours. 17:59:48 -!- Lymee has quit (Client Quit). 18:00:03 elliott, pikhq isn't in -minecraft. 18:00:10 i need a gregor 18:00:21 I might be a Gregor. 18:00:34 No one ever needs a Gregor. 18:01:36 gregor! 18:01:43 i need halps from you 18:01:50 No one ever needs halps from Gregor. 18:01:56 explox me the bfjoust cache file format 18:02:11 what 18:02:24 Well, I suppose Vorpal doesn't get a say that way, but neither of us care what he says anyway. <-- wrt? 18:02:31 Homestuck. 18:02:43 You've never even heard Sburban Jungle. 18:02:55 is it just a file for each match with a number encoded as a binary byte? 18:02:58 You can barely be said to have experienced the glory that is Homestuck. 18:02:59 Phantom__Hoover, I'm lagging behind in reading yeah 18:03:03 quintopia: I am unaware of any cache file. 18:03:03 i don't actually have the cache files on me, just the code 18:03:16 Vorpal: Sburban Jungle is in the first few hundred pages. 18:03:33 elliott, too long ago then, I forgot it 18:03:40 No, you just didn't have speakers :P 18:03:45 elliott, ah 18:03:50 ... 18:03:54 * elliott facepalm 18:04:05 elliott, ? 18:04:28 How did you forget that. 18:04:41 elliott, no clue, busy anyway 18:06:28 I need to shift this screen setup around... 18:07:45 fizzie, there? Any way to tell gnome which monitor you want stuff like task bar and such to show up on. 18:07:51 the system is only sometimes dual screen 18:07:58 (laptop + desktop monitor) 18:08:51 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:12:08 I don't really know about modern Gnome. The "monitor properties" dialog used to have a primary-screen indicamator, and I think the panels themselves, when not locked, are mostly draggable. 18:13:00 fizzie, currently I get desktop icons on one monitor and panels on another 18:13:05 and there is no primary checkbox 18:13:09 this is gnome 2 18:13:30 fizzie, anyway the external one I want primary when it is around, otherwise I want the built in one primary 18:15:23 wareya: y u no in #gg2 18:15:38 ajf: ragequat 18:15:45 Ho-hum; well, I don't recall offhand how it goes. 18:15:47 did you miss it? 18:16:09 yes 18:16:20 *wondow switches and page-ups* 18:16:31 no ajf 18:16:34 general chatter page 2 18:16:42 oh 18:16:47 *checks* 18:16:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:16:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:16:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:17:05 Ho-hum; well, I don't recall offhand how it goes. <-- oh well 18:17:15 wtf is #gg2 18:17:20 hey uh 18:17:21 wareya 18:17:25 yeah ajf what 18:17:28 could you give me mod powers in Mods? 18:17:37 ask mrfredman or bacon 18:18:00 say you're my temporary fill in 18:18:55 yeah, quoting you saying that 18:19:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:24:10 -!- aloril has joined. 18:26:58 could you give me mod powers in Mods? 18:27:00 Zuh 18:33:26 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:33:36 -!- elliott has joined. 18:50:59 something from another community 18:51:02 long story 18:51:49 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:58:46 -!- ajf has changed nick to ajfafk. 19:08:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:14:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbers 19:16:51 Courtesy of xkcd, the most hilarious article. 19:17:38 Hey, I linked that days ago. 19:17:42 Maybe even a week or two. 19:18:03 I even quoted " This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.". 19:18:09 [asterisk]"This 19:18:39 maybe randall is lurking on the channel 19:18:58 ugh 19:19:07 let's drive him away 19:20:07 perhaps it's myndzi, he's good with stick figures 19:20:27 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:21:09 * oerjan swats FireFly for being randall munroe -----### 19:21:19 oh shit. if he is it's my fault. i just linked the esolang wiki from a channel randall is definitely lurking in >.> 19:21:39 WHY DO YOU DO THESE THINGS 19:21:42 I am? 19:21:46 That's new to me 19:21:55 IT HAS BEEN RUMORED 19:22:18 oerjan: what's the odds that if randall came here, the general dislike of his comic would be a refreshing break for him from the mindless fanbase he encounters everywhere else on the internet ;D 19:22:21 answer: zero 'cuz we're jerks 19:22:43 Phantom__Hoover: You added Perl to the joke language list. Shame. 19:22:54 well what are the chances he's intelligent enough for this channel 19:23:27 perl is a good joke 19:23:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:51 maybe perl is a great punchline, but we sure as hell haven't found the joke to make it funny yet 19:24:08 I laugh every time 19:24:31 ais523: btw re "making the wiki look stupid", that sounds quite unavoidable to me ;D 19:24:48 i mean to the UNENLIGHTENED the whole wiki is ridiculous. 19:25:08 elliott: well, Reddit found the Perl entry on the joke language list and it caused a lot of confusion 19:25:47 that's brilliant 19:30:04 well what's written on that page is a joke, anyway. unless someone changed it. 19:30:15 incidentally that argument also works for Feather 19:31:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:32:08 Back. 19:32:20 This break brought to you by: paternal idiocy. 19:32:31 This return brought to you by: even greater paternal idiocy. 19:32:53 I mean, I thought he understood that I could plug power cables in, but apparently no. 19:33:39 so, what happened? 19:33:48 he made you move away so he could plug them in himself? 19:33:51 -!- olsner has joined. 19:35:12 ais523, no, he decided to punish me for not giving my laptop to my sister by "taking his router away". 19:35:45 so you just plugged the router back in? 19:35:47 He then attempted to unplug the modem, although he stopped after I helpfully informed him of this. 19:35:59 oh, it wasn't actually a router at all? 19:36:08 No, he unplugged the router after that. 19:36:17 And left the power cable lying on the floor right next to it. 19:36:27 why didn't you let your sister use the laptop? 19:36:43 Because it's my goddamn laptop and she was being a snivelly little whiny brat. 19:37:27 Seriously, I had to blast white noise through the headphones to drown her out. 19:38:09 Need to retrieve tea, so I'll have to unplug the router while it's unattended. 19:40:36 * oerjan though Phantom__Hoover was an adult 19:40:39 *thought 19:41:17 `quote 19:41:18 ​370) A priori one cannot say that post hoc ergo propter hoc the diminishing returns would give; yet under quid pro quo one can agglutinate fabula and sujet into vagrancies untold. See? I'm intellectual. 19:41:40 obviously 19:41:45 elliott: you and your mentions of vagrant 19:41:48 `quote 19:41:49 ​282) [...] reyouthismootherate [...] 19:42:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:42:09 * oerjan though Phantom__Hoover was an adult 19:42:09 *thought 19:42:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:42:14 define adult? :-P 19:43:08 I like the contrast between those two quotes. 19:43:29 elliott: legally able to do more than elliott, despite there being no real reason to use such a crude method of discrimination 19:43:56 yeah i've got way more coolness than ph 19:44:24 Phantom__Hoover: What is the pH of a phantom hoover? 19:44:36 -10. 19:44:52 I kid, I kid. 19:44:57 It's -23. 19:45:03 I'm all hydrogen ions. 19:45:36 Wait, that makes a sixth of me hydrogen ions. 19:46:19 -23.7. 19:50:29 Phantoms do not care about electrostatic repulsion. 19:50:43 X-D 19:56:30 ais523: I don't suppose you happen to know how slow a segfault is? :P 19:56:37 I don't 19:56:48 it can last a human-noticeable length of time if it also causes a coredump, though 19:56:58 but if you're asking a question, that's probably not the use-case you have in mind 19:57:03 *if you're asking that question 19:57:06 ais523: I mean a caught one 19:57:19 specifically, the overhead of the dereference + calling the handler + resuming execution 19:57:36 my guess is that it's equal to a processor trap plus a signal delivery 19:57:46 possibly a bit more 19:57:52 but I don't know how long either of those things take 19:57:56 you could try benchmarking it 19:58:08 that's the last resort :> 19:58:24 I'm basically wondering about it as a memory allocation strategy 19:58:38 alright guys. degree survey time. 19:58:41 good memory allocation strategy 19:58:49 in your opinion, what are my program's greatest strengths? 19:58:53 weaknesses? 19:59:08 feel free to make shit up, as long as it's funny 19:59:14 i'm not feeling funny at the moment 19:59:33 quintopia: it's the worst program ever and it eats babies for breakfast 19:59:42 and it segfaults constantly 19:59:42 elliott: is this for zepto 19:59:51 hmm, you caan do better. i like the segfault one. 19:59:52 -!- azaq231 has joined. 19:59:52 I seem to recall reading somewhere that Linux signals had reasonably low overhead, at least as far as these things go. 19:59:56 monqy: no this is so unzepto 20:00:10 fizzie: right; most signals don't involve such a processor trap though 20:01:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:01:12 -!- ajfafk has changed nick to ajf. 20:01:18 That part shouldn't take long either, I don't think, but of course longness is relative. 20:02:25 the two ideas i'm basically having for it is 20:02:36 one, you have this gigantic memory pool thing, but you only allocate some of it (like with sbrk or whatever???) 20:02:42 and when you segfault by stepping outside of the bounds 20:02:45 it expands it and resumes 20:02:46 or 20:03:05 based on my experiments on linux, sbrk is nearly useless 20:03:15 it gave me a 128MB heap 20:03:29 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:03:37 the two ideas i'm basically having for it is 20:03:39 one, you have this gigantic memory pool thing, but you only allocate some of it (like with sbrk or whatever???) 20:03:42 and when you segfault by stepping outside of the bounds 20:03:45 it expands it and resumes 20:03:46 or 20:03:48 an allocator replacement 20:03:50 when the allocator is called, it just returns some random number from high, high memory that will never be used 20:03:53 then when it's accessed and segfaults 20:03:55 the allocation is done for real 20:03:57 and the pointer is rewritten to point to it 20:03:59 plus an entry in a table is marked 20:04:01 mapping the high memory number to the actual address 20:04:03 so that if another segfault happens because of aliasing it can rewrite it properly 20:04:11 and then the next GC cycle it rewrites /all/ the pointers and removes the table entry 20:04:15 awesome or awesome 20:04:48 Based on the Stetson-Harrison method I'd guesstimate something in the order-of-magnitude of some microseconds, but don't quote me on that. 20:05:20 that's pretty good considering the overhead of the actual allocator :-P 20:05:54 i´m the austrian cave troll'lkk;yy[[File:ooo--90.217.154.251 (talk) 19:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)llllllllllll]] 20:05:54 --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox 20:06:26 gah, why does wikipedia try and hide your contributions link from you if you are logged ouT? 20:06:48 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:07:14 cute page 20:13:26 Understanding what happened based on the faulting code can be somewhat nasty. Your pointer-replacement thing at least sounds tricky in the general case; you get the faulty address and pointer to the instruction that caused the fault, but if it's some "foo r8, [r9]" sort of thing it might not be trivial to say where the pointer value in r9 came from, for replacing it. Or even to find out which register to replace with the proper pointer value so that you can res 20:13:26 ume. 20:13:45 fizzie: In this case it would be for a language implementation. 20:13:57 So the assembly would be controlled somewhat. 20:15:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:20:03 night 20:24:28 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:29:37 -!- olsner has set topic: The first rule of krevitch is that you do not snork about flads. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 20:29:54 -!- azaq231 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:11 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:32:30 a very cromulent topic. 20:33:36 yes :) my first #esoteric topic, as far as I can recall 20:36:48 One more test! 20:40:15 @check \x -> (x+y)^2 == x^2+2*x*y+y^2 20:40:15 No instance for (Test.QuickCheck.Arbitrary SimpleReflect.Expr) 20:40:15 arising f... 20:40:22 oops 20:40:27 @check \x y -> (x+y)^2 == x^2+2*x*y+y^2 20:40:27 "OK, passed 500 tests." 20:40:36 TESTED OK 20:41:08 @check \x y -> (x+y)^2 == (x^2+2*x*y+y^2 :: Double) 20:41:09 "Falsifiable, after 3 tests:\n-1.6666666666666667\n-1.0\n" 20:41:18 :D 20:41:50 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:44:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:47:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:48:27 Let's play Guess Why PH Just Disconnected For Three Quarters Of An Hour! 20:49:12 was it Parental Stupidity (TM)? 20:49:25 And the gold prize goes to: oerjan! 20:49:47 so how soon will you be moving? 20:50:38 Well, I go to university in a year and a bit. 20:51:06 Fortunately, unlike Sgeo, the chances of them sabotaging my university education are slim. 20:58:41 what happened to Sgeo? 20:59:17 He ended up going to a university with more business requirements for the course he was on than mathematics ones. 21:00:13 because his parents wanted him to get business stuff and forced him there, or just they forced him into a generally shitty university? 21:00:35 Because his dad is a nutcase. 21:02:25 did parental stupidity find out about your router not being unplugged 21:02:31 Yes. 21:02:46 you should get wireless 21:02:52 I have got wireless. 21:02:55 It's just terrible. 21:03:53 Sgeo's getting a degree in, whatwasit, "IT"? 21:03:55 anyway, how did the nutcase dad thing lead to Sgeo reading business classes? 21:04:16 Ask pikhq, he tried to get Sgeo to change to something decent. 21:04:28 The highest level math class required for his degree is calc I. 21:04:32 nice 21:04:35 It requires 3 business classes. 21:04:56 olsner: Just forced him into a generally shitty university. 21:05:11 Without an actual CS program. 21:07:07 poor Sgeo 21:07:24 Remind me why Sgeo's dad did that. 21:08:00 Something about being able to live at home and it'd be cheap. 21:08:03 Ah. 21:08:14 Yeah, that's not happening to me. 21:08:30 Cheap doesn't help you if your degree only barely qualifies you to flip burgers. 21:08:43 business burgers 21:08:50 monqy: With Visual Basic. 21:08:51 get into management in no time 21:09:03 mmmm visual basic 21:09:15 this sounds like the worst thing ever 21:09:16 write a gui in visual basic to flip burgers in real time 21:09:17 pikhq, will he create a GUI interface with Visual Basic to trace the burgers? 21:09:26 ...XD 21:11:38 does visual basic knowledge even qualify you to flip burgers? 21:12:17 does visual basic knowledge even qualify sgeo to flip burgers?, I mean 21:12:24 pikhq: actually, I think burger flipping works even without a degree 21:12:52 one of my life goals is to stay out of the burger flipping business 21:14:04 monqy: don't worry, you've still got plenty of time to fail 21:16:39 since I have made no such goal I am unable to fail :> 21:17:29 -!- azaq231 has joined. 21:18:21 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:23:11 This is probably the only group on multicast e-mail systems of any sort where "OT:..." means on topic.[citation needed] 21:23:13 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:23:51 hehe, which group? 21:24:26 rec.humor.oracle.d 21:27:22 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 21:28:32 OK Problem Sleuth is hilarious. 21:35:20 that oracle thing seems kind of funny 21:45:21 Oracle's awesome 21:45:33 Um, not the company 21:54:03 `addquote Oracle's awesome 21:54:05 ​424) Oracle's awesome 21:54:28 * Sgeo sets Phantom__Hoover on fire 21:54:53 Sgeo, remind me, have you made a BF derivative? 21:54:58 Yes 21:55:11 i'd *ZOT* Phantom__Hoover, but i don't know if the oracle still does that 21:55:23 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-RLE 21:55:28 * Phantom__Hoover brickbrains Sgeo. 21:55:51 Oh, and it's a stupid BF derivative too! 21:55:59 * Phantom__Hoover gets another brick. 21:56:04 THEM'S THE RULES 21:56:17 zzo38 likes it 21:56:37 Or, at least, used it in one of his languages 21:56:39 Oh, right. Well, I respect zzo's opinion completely. 21:57:39 oerjan: that came up in another channel a while ago, actually 21:57:53 and the answer is, I don't know, because the precise question you asked didn't come up 21:58:10 what, *ZOT*ing? 21:58:16 yep 21:58:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:01:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:01:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:01:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:02:47 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 22:08:10 There is this: 22:08:11 "P.S. At first I thought I might zot you for your faux grovel, but then 22:08:11 } I realized inspiring false praise is the highest form of praise I can 22:08:11 } ask for. Keep up the good work." 22:09:06 -!- ajf has changed nick to ajf|offline. 22:13:44 -!- cheater79 has joined. 22:17:43 -!- azaq231 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:24:00 * Sgeo is now curious what Oracularity 1455-08 originally said 22:24:46 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.humor.oracle/browse_thread/thread/ec854c084f3f0f3d 22:30:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:44:15 * Phantom__Hoover → sleep 22:44:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:44:58 bash is an interesting language. 23:05:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:17:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:40:15 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:41:05 -!- wareya has joined. 23:48:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:51:10 Do the two reasons to capitalize "he's" in "Fear God! he's reentrant." cancel each other out? I don't think so!!! 23:51:33 Lla krow dna on yalp sekam Kcaj a llud yob. 23:51:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:52:23 * oerjan sidles away from zzo38's axe 23:52:35 I don't have an axe 23:53:03 It is your axe 23:57:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:59:41 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined.