< 1303430563 3637 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1303432470 732054 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1303432499 986451 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303432860 919688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you die, are you going to make sure you die laughing? < 1303433122 797188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make no guarantees. < 1303433169 914512 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303434390 898514 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1303434413 224806 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303435353 746114 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. < 1303435356 764248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3 hacked again. < 1303435459 326389 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffer overflow in a SELF loader's header check. < 1303435618 511782 :coppro!~scshunt@129.97.134.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303435717 13325 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And it gets you the bootldr keys. < 1303435777 89044 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the lv0 keys. < 1303435873 309891 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's the entire chain of trust. < 1303435880 69315 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sony accidentally the chain of trust. < 1303435916 936242 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303436179 243736 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, seems that as soon as someone bothers to dump/leak the lv0 keys, the PS3 will be *permanently* hacked. < 1303436337 500178 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1303436827 282951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Someone should do that, then. And then watch Sony earn a lot of money because of that, and yet, still, they will discontinue the product. < 1303436991 493396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I probably would, and post it via Tor, if my PS3 still worked. < 1303436999 212783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even worse, nobody (not even the people who work at Sony in a few years) will know the reason why it would be discontinues. < 1303437076 186328 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to buy some thermal paste and give it a bake < 1303437151 699648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it broken? < 1303437156 879282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the PS3 broken? < 1303437198 585608 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, what makes it broke? < 1303437213 604552 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do a reflow on it; it's exhibiting the symptoms of the solder joints on the GPU having gone bad... < 1303437226 885081 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned lead-free solder. < 1303437741 184425 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it's not a 360. < 1303437751 518202 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 360, you can do a solder reflow on by making it overheat. < 1303438678 140338 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303439617 568510 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does vi/vim have the mode to ding when reaching a certain column? < 1303440906 5918 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have come down with a cold. That sucks. < 1303441147 432081 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I seem to be short on pastimes ATM. < 1303441174 853457 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, reddit is down. < 1303441220 948681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make up something else. < 1303441314 479731 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw you and your logic! < 1303441322 830098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1303441367 149845 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because! < 1303441388 754131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I resent "logic", therefore colorless green dreams sleep furiously! < 1303441401 978986 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.241.130 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1303442299 126909 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303442345 716618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to make up the new D&D character for a separate campaign, by Monday at 16:00J. It is 5th level (6th level for multiclassed characters). I have to try to make decision, such as: Is there colors of chalk? Is there colors of marbles? Does this game have magnetic marbles? < 1303442531 885086 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also important: have you lost your marbles? < 1303442601 79812 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, but they have lost terminal. I did not even select any equipment yet, so there is nothing to lose, yet. < 1303442860 221124 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/dMoYQ.jpg < 1303443852 502666 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1303444236 988996 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303444248 617754 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has discovered that Jagermeister tastes amazing. < 1303444286 674534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primary flavor in it is liquorice. < 1303444302 702821 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I <3 liquorice. < 1303444326 861000 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1303444417 713137 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn straight you do. < 1303444711 523573 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303444725 507373 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actual licorice, not the red sweet candy stuff that's like twizzlers < 1303444749 36213 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The red sweet candy stuff is also nice at times. But that's not fucking liquorice. < 1303444758 823836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual liquorice is the flavor of the gods. < 1303444763 393365 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1303444765 421942 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want some now < 1303444775 102460 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303444824 295513 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, if you really want the red sweet candy stuff, Red Vines > Twizzlers so fucking much) < 1303444853 45503 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red Vines? < 1303444861 585281 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried the stuff they sell at Trader Joe's < 1303444868 873012 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not bad, but it's kinda sweet < 1303444897 801855 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, may not be a national brand... < 1303444932 846153 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's out of California, and fairly readily available in Colorado. < 1303445798 743994 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1303445805 237763 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now incredibly fed up with xkcd < 1303445948 501056 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current xkcd is pretty much the same as a previous xkcd < 1303446022 340515 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, devoid of humor. < 1303446041 782300 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it has negative humor value. < 1303446133 15312 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that. It's that it's essentially the same as a previous one. < 1303446384 457359 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1303446416 345188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. < 1303446485 235161 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "not being a mammal" :P < 1303446509 477556 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: First, the monotremes have cloacas. < 1303446515 542151 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Second, I meant "in humans". < 1303446561 898170 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRIGGIN' PLATYPUS < 1303446574 27167 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby expel the monotremes from mammalia. < 1303446582 557080 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And echidna. < 1303446630 986865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The marsupial genitalia are also completely and utterly bizarre. < 1303446720 494603 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have two-pronged penises and two vaginas attached to seperate uteruses. < 1303446743 916534 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundancy: It's good for you. < 1303446773 468345 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the fetus is fed via a yolk. < 1303446819 665958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they give live birth basically by not shelling the egg. < 1303446835 553689 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heywait, nobody ever answered: Subtract and branch if zero is TC, right? < 1303446867 892004 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not. < 1303446886 229174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, subtract and branch if less than or equal to zero is TC... < 1303446901 920287 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems it'd just make some branching code even more tedious. < 1303446924 816833 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tedium is irrelevant, all that matters is brevity :P < 1303446943 185441 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1303446979 942302 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the non-cheating useful[1] language with the shortest working interpreter (in C). [1]: Useful means either TC, or non-TC for reasons of limited types not fundamental to the semantics of the language. < 1303447029 778428 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my condition as equality to zero, I can use a simple ?: on the subtraction op, rather than having a comparison :P < 1303447177 965015 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, carry on. < 1303447185 124010 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it has to be a non-cheating language, no system() :P < 1303447199 993354 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason that SBZ wouldn't be TC. < 1303447222 171757 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has branching, self-modification, and arithmetic. < 1303447223 291116 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm down to 86 characters, bounded storage machine, plus IO just for lols. < 1303447239 479817 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it uses gets because I'm awesome. < 1303447247 984646 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear/ < 1303447250 28715 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste? < 1303447284 615665 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/RQVd < 1303447308 549373 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1303447321 72677 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could shave off some space in one easy way I choose not to, plus it actually depends on the signedness of chars which sucks >_> < 1303447352 419872 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, plus it's some horrible amalgam of C99 and pre-ANSI C :P < 1303447404 402824 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since you're already doing GNU C, you can just do -fsigned-char or -funsigned-char. :P < 1303447430 783006 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, I don't think this strictly depends on GNU C. < 1303447442 152739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C99 and pre-ANSI C" < 1303447456 651106 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That working is a GNU-ism. :P < 1303447475 409324 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C99 allow "main(){}" as a program? I don't think so ... < 1303447483 666253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1303447494 697856 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, yeah, that's why. < 1303447504 746969 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need five extra chars for "void ", unless it doesn't even allow main to be void. < 1303447542 212395 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could remove a space by doing "char*a,b[9<<9]={0};" < 1303447549 832872 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And main can't be void, no. < 1303447558 592215 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, brilliant. < 1303447569 601222 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not allowed to modify b, are you? < 1303447580 608084 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you are. < 1303447596 609775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm wasting craploads on 'a' maintenance :P < 1303447604 518217 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an array on the stack that is all 0s. < 1303447618 257113 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{0} is an initialiser, not a constant. < 1303447626 886342 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, I don't mean the content of the array. < 1303447629 62808 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean b itself. < 1303447636 120213 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh*. < 1303447640 752855 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I can modify the content :P < 1303447664 368060 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I doubt it, but GNU might allow it in spite of standards and common sense. < 1303447685 971347 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd really rather not STRICTLY depend on GNU X-D < 1303447785 33011 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet clang could compile it too :P < 1303447867 915377 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, char b[1024]={0} is C99, right? < 1303447874 557440 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1303447895 503607 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I'd need memset to accomplish that otherwise >_> < 1303447905 262359 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :memset is six characters! :P < 1303447925 220676 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :char*a,b[9<<9];main(){...} < 1303447945 689011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Globals are 0-filled by default. < 1303447957 497992 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that guaranteed to be zero by the C standard? I thought it just happened to be guaranteed to be zero by Unix/ELF/nonsense. < 1303447969 947009 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is a guarantee. < 1303447988 925248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *why* .bss exists. < 1303447993 944957 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, b[9<<9] is definitely not OK since 9<<9 isn't a literal :P < 1303448022 582367 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I just realized .... 9<<9 is smaller than 9999 >_< < 1303448034 953453 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there you go. :) < 1303448093 975828 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahaha, works and 81 chars >: ) < 1303448148 332143 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, how do you feel about making it also confusing? < 1303448179 932813 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array indexing is commutative. >:D < 1303448184 957990 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1303448191 676054 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[1] == 1[a] < 1303448210 596221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as *(a+1) == *(1+a) < 1303448211 245678 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1303448213 765738 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x[y]==*(x+y)) I think, it is same thing, as additional commutate < 1303448222 394356 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that typeof(1) !== typeof(a) < 1303448228 621479 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Irrelevant. < 1303448238 723765 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Array indexing does not work how you think it does. < 1303448250 222590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a[b] *is* *(a+b) forall a,b. < 1303448277 190205 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is a number the other is a pointer. It has to be, because it is not sense to add two pointers together. Therefore is allow to be commutative. < 1303448326 568264 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow, that shit compiles with -ansi -pedantic *brain explodes* < 1303448352 222377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's entirely valid and well-formed ANSI C. < 1303448355 343522 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is because it is valid, there is no good reason to make non-valid such things!!! < 1303448380 991384 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Except of course for basic sanity >_> < 1303448394 775064 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still, I'm going for brevity, I'm not attacking clarity for the sake of attacking clarity. < 1303448407 682991 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1303448419 370239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does so amuse me to do that, though. < 1303448437 566497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it should be compile error to write (*42) because you should need an explicit cast between numbers and pointers; implicit cast should be disallowed (but it isn't, it is only warning, too bad) < 1303448450 205412 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But come on, I've got a bounded storage machine interpreter for a pseudouseful language in 81 bytes of C! < 1303448457 244834 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm pretty sure it is at least a warning. < 1303448478 472846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes it is a warning. It ought to be error to make such implicit cast. < 1303448491 101617 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, probably. < 1303448516 87210 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the few cases where you really *mean* it, you're probably doing an explicit cast anyways. < 1303448521 79732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :) < 1303448597 512625 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If only you could make use of the arguments to main to get some variables for cheap. < 1303448626 80302 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was thinking about using an arg instead of getsing my code, but I couldn't find a way to do it in less characters. < 1303448642 359806 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int n,char*a){// Write over n, a immediately} < 1303448654 712542 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So very nice if you need an integer and a char pointer. < 1303448669 876853 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't :P < 1303448672 96535 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only case should be an implicit cast from literal zero (or a constant expression making zero, such as (5-5)) to pointer is null pointer, and pointer to boolean, in similar way. But explicit cast such as ((char*)0) ought to always correspond to actually address zero instead. < 1303448678 605689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was merely lamenting that. < 1303448699 93746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes even in codegolf, Anarchy golf, it can be done like that, I do like that. < 1303448702 335649 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not an implicit cast from zero to null pointer. < 1303448715 332840 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303448715 986691 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "0" *is* a null pointer. < 1303448736 880666 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor distinction that is utterly irrelevant. < 1303448739 901365 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1303448750 240305 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think zero should be an implicit cast to a null pointer, but if you use an explicit cast, instead corresponds to address 0 (usually also the null pointer, though). < 1303448801 487952 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many systems are there around where NULL isn't expressed as 0, anyways? < 1303448814 297483 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, uh, there's Lisp machines which had NULL expressed as nil... < 1303448815 916350 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1303448821 367856 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303448830 472801 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I do not know if there are any such system. I am just saying what would be my opinion. < 1303448838 221751 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love how you go straight from pedantry to practicality :P < 1303448848 190968 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :) < 1303448854 382354 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I named one. < 1303448910 85969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1303448949 542350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is OK to have 1[a] and a[1] same thing, by commutative addition, make sense. (Gregor's comment about sanity, although not wrong, is wrong because you cannot always sanity, please. I can sometimes sanity, please.) < 1303448984 39228 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ... you cannot always sanity, please. I can sometimes sanity, please. < 1303448987 366949 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :376) ... you cannot always sanity, please. I can sometimes sanity, please. < 1303449500 414966 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to tell the compiler that the program uses more stack? < 1303449880 163740 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because the compiler doesn't determine the size of the program's stack. < 1303449901 160357 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is allocated by the kernel on process creation. < 1303449924 140230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest you could get is allocating a new stack and switching to it. < 1303449932 395891 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1303450023 769569 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 79 < 1303450089 314305 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Noice. < 1303450115 331844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can you make that while not being specific to only one computer? < 1303450200 985283 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The setcontext family of functions in POSIX lets you switch stacks. < 1303450314 797513 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does gdb have a command to check the amount of stack usage? < 1303450332 133077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to trap in case of too much? < 1303450413 566102 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find one, let me know. < 1303450443 935774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if you use setcontext et al, be aware that it is very hard to debug screwups. < 1303450499 628708 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will try to let you know. < 1303450509 917971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried using it for continuations in C... I'm not sure how, but I got a null pointer as the return address for a function. < 1303450523 96719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needless to say, gdb is no help. < 1303450589 21084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for something I also found libunwind, does that help at all? < 1303450600 303840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, with what you are doing) < 1303451580 125678 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yesterday's stats: APNIC (2x/32 IPv6): 4x1k+/32 to Australia, 3x1k to China, 1k to Indonesia, 1k to India, 4x1k+/32 to Japan, 2x1k to Sri Lanka, 2x1k to New Zealand, 1k to Singapore, 1k to Thailand. < 1303451813 418517 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1303451963 778510 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for using /32s as the unit? < 1303451987 350900 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it make more sense to use /22, i.e. the minimum allocation unit at APNIC? < 1303452087 123548 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The minimum unit is really a /24. I don't know if that can be allocated, but at least it can be assigned. < 1303452189 36407 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/22 is the minimum APNIC will allocate itself. < 1303453205 462461 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1303453933 86831 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" People who use twitter: What's twitterese for "Send answers by tagging @whoever"?" <<< no one uses twitter < 1303454123 626397 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In reality, Twitter is a test case for AI research. < 1303454329 108632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was invented, but now they just feel like ancient history < 1303454455 557892 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1303454655 520757 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was invented, but now they just feel like ancient history < 1303454658 830665 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :377) i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was invented, but now they just feel like ancient history < 1303454838 244801 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you should sue the government for violating treaties < 1303454844 989395 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the supremacy clause of the constitution < 1303454895 639886 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Precedent is that I do not have standing to sue unless I can demonstrate that I have been significantly affected by it. < 1303454901 469172 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this is bullshit. < 1303454985 4248 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Flatland doing in the non-fiction section? I mean, I see why it's in Science (although imo it should be Math), and that of course is in Non-fiction < 1303454994 421402 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... it's just < 1303455001 148452 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.feedbooks.com/books/categories < 1303455005 500628 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click Science < 1303455019 227184 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope you don't hit a 500 < 1303455035 597814 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you should orchestrate yourself into that then < 1303455044 808980 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make a career out of getting standing to sue and suing < 1303455071 863914 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Victorian-era satire is apparently non-fiction. < 1303455080 291917 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Non-trivial but awesome. < 1303455113 701134 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Problem is, the treaties I care about would be *very* hard to make applicable without being at high risk of death. < 1303455371 679438 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh? < 1303455739 337149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, exactly, do you propose that I sue the government for violations of the Convention Against Torture without being in a really shitty state? < 1303456562 736475 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: could you argue that your faith in the constitution as the supreme law of the land is shaken? < 1303456670 927169 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'd be laughed out of court. < 1303456676 256436 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby demonstrating my point. < 1303456690 818859 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1303456717 609606 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's the tort of emotional distress < 1303456727 32072 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have violated the law and made you feel bad < 1303456854 368359 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Moreover*, the government could no doubt succesfully argue sovereign immunity. < 1303457129 457443 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1303457144 318600 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol usa < 1303457152 115434 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck I have to live there for thre emonths < 1303457157 365077 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamit < 1303457178 303055 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Something Russia is famous for: Russians. < 1303457820 848553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only country I'm legally permitted to live in. < 1303458689 252900 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm legally permitted to live in it until October < 1303459169 831776 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303460057 475162 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1303461242 124290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, well, I know now, but I'm not going to tell you because it took me about 30 seconds. <-- it translates to "birds" for me... < 1303463125 192139 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303465902 943564 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1303468121 621894 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1303468362 501353 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1303468592 501035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303469158 142211 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303469166 667081 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303469212 42463 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303469283 531971 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303470105 400154 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303470845 892114 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/01961_1.gif < 1303470857 874848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK this is quite probably the most ridiculous thing ever. < 1303471022 661204 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.impredicative.com/ur/demo/ < 1303473462 707164 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1303474084 305355 :jix!jix@188.40.47.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303474771 815366 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303475213 726182 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official: My favorite candy is marshmellows < 1303475789 4212 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you actually call that candy? < 1303475841 22126 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always thought candy was like more "solid" stuff < 1303475847 912782 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133943.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303475855 206745 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a marshmallow is almost like whipped cream... and you wouldn't call that candy < 1303475858 41336 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like a jelly < 1303475865 90019 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not candy either < 1303475882 25329 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :where be the fine thin line between marshmallow and jelly? < 1303476383 52844 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say the thing it's most similar to is meringue. < 1303476397 944833 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't considered a candy /per se/, but then in many contexts marshmallow isn't considered a candy /per se/. < 1303476422 818655 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm a bit on the border with this < 1303476442 138840 :yorick_!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick NICK :yorick < 1303476443 969040 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Candy, specifically sugar candy, is a confection made from a concentrated solution of sugar in water, to which flavorings and colorants are added. < 1303476455 906602 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a marshmallow is made from sugar syrup < 1303476470 684191 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically you could say by ingredients it's a sort of candy. < 1303476528 466086 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :marsh mallows are sugar and egg white < 1303476532 293089 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1303476542 451129 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff you buy in shops is probably synthesized from cow brains < 1303476550 178015 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can make them from sugar and egg white < 1303476611 136596 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm cow brains < 1303476820 541068 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1303476827 822403 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dons is scaring me < 1303476849 765303 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anytime i ask a question related to haskell, i end up arriving at an answer from dons < 1303476874 662935 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i've asked a question in #haskell, searched around for hours, and he's written a paper answering it in full, many years ago < 1303477155 708219 :jos_ali_joe!~jos_ali_j@118.137.194.165 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303478142 230956 :jos_ali_joe!~jos_ali_j@118.137.194.165 QUIT : < 1303478460 654149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303478693 885812 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1303479317 571333 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303479402 873819 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133943.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224] < 1303479695 366842 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303480245 174983 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :show that x^15 + y^3 = 34^34 has no integer solutions < 1303480817 759428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, diophantine equation! < 1303480829 176060 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303480858 196896 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1303480861 931104 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :wnat do you think of diophantine ? < 1303480872 35748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear them < 1303480902 27773 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-61-68.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diphantus wouldn't like that either! < 1303480906 770872 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-61-68.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :dio* < 1303481347 825131 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303481540 208285 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find all m,n such that 3^m - 2^n = +/- 1 < 1303481763 733854 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, apparently the Open Watcom compiler has unsigned chars by default >_> < 1303481778 787588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: both signed and unsigned char by default are legal < 1303481784 797298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unsigned char is more plausible in some senses < 1303481787 253646 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that < 1303481791 396625 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :diophantine equations with unsigned chars < 1303481796 226359 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can check every case < 1303481806 525386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But I'm writing an interpreter in the fewest possible characters, so I assume signed char to save characters :P < 1303481816 834299 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove that a^n+b^n=c^n has no integer solutions a, b, and c for n>2 < 1303481819 646885 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1303481852 371231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: apparently MSVC++ throws an exception at runtime on an attempt to cast a signed int to a signed short, if the value overflows a short < 1303481857 748418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when compiling C < 1303481865 470154 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... < 1303481866 999998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's legal too, but I thought it was completely absurd < 1303481921 405440 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I did get that right, right?] < 1303481929 706068 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU ARE NOT HELPING < 1303481942 244994 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't think that can be solved by elementry methods < 1303481944 275081 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want my 79-char interpreter to balloon because of friggin' portability issues :P < 1303481974 960428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use int everywhere, it's one integer shorter than char < 1303481992 399337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 0^3+0^3=0^3 < 1303482004 28528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably put "nonzero" in there somewhere < 1303482031 845559 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^n + y^n = z^n => xyz = 0 < 1303482059 343770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> xyz(n+2)(n+1)n(n-1)(n-2) = 0 < 1303482126 149842 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha that's clever < 1303482131 386975 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :is is true for the negative n? < 1303482134 207081 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't konw about that < 1303482153 397698 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's easy, i just wrote it down on a napkin.. but i had to blow my nose < 1303482174 613238 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yz)^n + (xz)^n = (xy)^n < 1303482186 622185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: it's very easy to prove true for n <= -3, given a proof for n >= 3 < 1303482188 962317 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what the smallest complete computer system is that ghc can compile efficient code for? < 1303482191 731846 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, pda-sized < 1303482197 371039 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what about n = -2 < 1303482200 678863 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -1 < 1303482205 190836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's false at those values < 1303482206 860953 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would an Atom based system be the smallest thing they'd reasonably run with? < 1303482208 990166 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/x + 1/y = 1/z < 1303482213 589712 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/x^2 + 1/y^2 = 1/z^2 < 1303482224 369054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3 + 1/6 = 1/2 for n=-1 is probably the simplest example < 1303482227 353047 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ask the egyptians < 1303482248 326966 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: what are you doing, capacitance calculations? gtfo. < 1303482281 94747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, crystal-cola appears to have left troll-mod. < 1303482282 761298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode. < 1303482296 592897 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why are you yelling at em? < 1303482300 833022 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303482307 901902 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303482309 31560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1/15^2 + 1/20^2 = 1/12^2 < 1303482416 42304 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ofcourse infinitely many solutions to that equation < 1303482421 582205 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are easy enough to find < 1303482432 581140 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using fractions, no less! < 1303482474 977604 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you find all solutions? < 1303482490 616557 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont, since theres an infinite number of them < 1303482497 265228 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only constraint your search one way or another < 1303482563 870416 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least im pretty sure there are infinitely many < 1303482648 241954 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there are infinitely many < 1303482653 302565 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho probably not many interesting ones < 1303482660 266853 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe lots of interesting ones < 1303482661 691127 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know! < 1303482678 769451 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :butanyway < 1303482680 269542 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must sleep < 1303482683 299274 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atleast a little bit < 1303482684 66951 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1303483040 238312 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses absolutely to add "signed " :P < 1303483489 479189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it need to be signed, anyway? < 1303483634 336600 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's an offset, and if it's unsigned then I can only go forwards, so I can't e.g. loop at all :P < 1303483765 525348 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But explicitly calling it signed makes it 86 characters! D-8 < 1303483774 624387 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey check this out < 1303483792 237439 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(1)=1;a(n+1)=2n+1-a(a(n-1)) < 1303483795 198962 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1303483797 983461 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303483799 242197 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(1)=1;a(n+1)=n+1-a(a(n-1)) < 1303483802 953800 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.82 QUIT :Changing host < 1303483803 141682 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303483811 421485 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1303483814 771036 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(1)=1;a(n+1)=n+1-a(a(n)) < 1303483824 509955 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a, now consider b(n)=a(n+1)-a(n) < 1303483828 710429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why does it have to be a char, then? < 1303483830 494836 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1 < 1303483831 659352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than an int? < 1303483835 760871 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically random?? < 1303483838 598746 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because I gets it. < 1303483849 168512 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If it's not a char, then I have endianness issues, and that's even grottier. < 1303483852 867455 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like it's trying to be periodic but ise't < 1303483854 977380 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus width issues >_< < 1303483865 776559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're reading a char... with gets? < 1303483883 344708 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading a char ARRAY < 1303483907 792828 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fundamentally this is subtract-and-branch-if-zero, with word size 8 bits. < 1303483926 221283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're unlikely to beat MiniMAX < 1303483945 11126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually TC even with bounded inputs, unlike many other OISCs < 1303483945 749704 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested reccurences have some weird ability to do this < 1303483955 588668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is using gets? < 1303483965 157823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gregor, because he's golfing < 1303483969 7849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303483974 270258 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How many chars is MiniMAX? < 1303483984 945980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 8 bytes of machine code, for the main loop < 1303483995 965103 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about machine code, I care about chars of C :P < 1303483997 984761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want I/O and that sort of thing, you have to go up to 32 or so < 1303484004 869736 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, I have I/O < 1303484012 324327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: char[] main = "insert shellcode here" < 1303484031 901968 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even my assume-char-is-signed C code is an effload more portable than that :P < 1303484053 342529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, awesome < 1303484062 149701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you never seen that trick before? < 1303484069 798877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. < 1303484078 918394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looks utterly unportable yeah < 1303484081 898263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick itself is at least moderately portable, although obviously the shellcode isn't < 1303484091 717339 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well of course the trick itself is portable :P < 1303484095 496735 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the code isn't. < 1303484100 806973 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it'd take lots of bytes to \x \x \x :P < 1303484105 643531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't imagine that it would work. Presumably it would end up in .data? < 1303484117 955780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which would have NX flag turned on. So it couldn't execute < 1303484130 303747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first IOCCC, the winning entry worked like that, but with a polyglot between the two most common machine codes of the time < 1303484135 263085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it predated people turning on NX out of habit < 1303484143 122875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "out of habit"? < 1303484158 151137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, in their linker defaults < 1303484167 20667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in general it is a good thing to have. If you really don't want it you can turn it off. But it is a good default to have it on < 1303484174 867982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1303484186 499005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, your last sentence sounded worryingly zzo38ish < 1303484202 264841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, indeed, so it is. < 1303484206 297105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind zzo38 talking like that, but from anyone else it's pretty scary < 1303484256 711341 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My rules for myself include "no cheating", which to me meant "no using system() or exec*()", but I think can easily be extended to "no writing machine code in C" :P < 1303484276 131078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303484279 481085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't make as many grammatical errors I think? < 1303484284 440150 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not, however, define how portable that C had to be, which is why I'm in an ethical quandry of signedness :P < 1303484292 419415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Erm. < 1303484292 607095 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1303484296 319400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is this about the jit stuff? < 1303484300 802325 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1303484301 479324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi elliott < 1303484308 538335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That relies on signed overflow :P < 1303484308 998498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gregor's golfing a TC interpreter < 1303484316 365312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language? < 1303484318 297286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just any language? < 1303484318 698020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1303484323 307075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relying on signed overflow is So Bad. < 1303484325 726556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... < 1303484326 436885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, any language as the language it interprets < 1303484330 816120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What language b- right. < 1303484332 136089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both are relevant when golfing < 1303484333 96383 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is about golfing a useful[1] interpreter. [1]: Useful means TC, or TC except for a bounded word (and hence) memory size, so computationally equivalent to a computer. < 1303484337 230668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shorter than lifthrasiir's BF one? < 1303484344 765323 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm at 79 bytes. < 1303484359 834041 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does have I/O < 1303484362 814038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: apparently MSVC++ throws an exception at runtime on an attempt to cast a signed int to a signed short, if the value overflows a short < 1303484364 483448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which language does it interpret? < 1303484371 792589 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Subtract-and-branch-if-zero. < 1303484376 212543 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 8-bit words. < 1303484379 767570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303484380 401762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rare to see languages actually treating signed overflow like MSVC++, though... < 1303484387 165296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tried ByteByteJump or similar? < 1303484395 434176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1303484406 459556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's just < 1303484406 880581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint8_t mem[MEMSIZE]; < 1303484407 159765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint32_t *pc = (uint32_t *)mem; < 1303484407 347263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;) { < 1303484407 347445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : mem[pc[1]] = mem[pc[0]]; < 1303484407 534886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pc = (uint32_t *)(mem + pc[2]); < 1303484409 309249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1303484411 229137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1303484425 338072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily do while(some condition on pc) to get a halt instruction. < 1303484432 363982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And IO can be memory-mapped. < 1303484437 537111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. That would be easy to exploit to write a program that is quite a bit slower in MSVC++ than in gcc < 1303484437 789403 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is so much more than 79 bytes :P < 1303484445 126231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it's ungolfed. < 1303484452 6416 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I forgot I fixed it up a bit, and I'm at 77 bytes. < 1303484461 914654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not entirely sure that you could catch the resulting exception in a vaguely portable way < 1303484467 764590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not even convinced it's a C++ exception < 1303484475 503534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a more general Windows exception, of which C++ exceptions are a special case < 1303484490 212795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it has to check for it, even if it doesn't occur < 1303484505 779772 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1303484511 170639 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, your has the portability issues I was concerned about ... my only portability issue is it assumes that chars are signed, yours interprets a different language for big-endian and little-endian machines ... < 1303484522 229497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means testing if a flag was set, and branching to "throw exception" code. < 1303484526 844155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does?? < 1303484528 929267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Since when < 1303484541 848510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's going to make a negligible differnce < 1303484544 49165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*difference < 1303484549 627219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1303484559 926676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a correctly predicted test-overflow-and-branch is incredibly quick compared to a single memory access < 1303484570 205384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, true < 1303484572 185167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and an incorrectly predicted one slow only because it needs to make memory accesses to load the code you branch to) < 1303484597 884396 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you kidding me? Of course it does. < 1303484610 261723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you going to clarify how or just keep stating that :P < 1303484621 515559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : An anonymous reader writes "Amazon has officially denied that the recent outage of its EC2 and Elastic Block Storage cloud platforms was the result of an attack from Cyberdyne Systems' Skynet sentient computer system, declaring humanity safe after all. 'From the information I have and to answer your questions,' a spokesperson explained, 'Skynet did not have anything to do with the service event at this time.' < 1303484625 851012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's UB C-wise because it overflows a signed value, but I don't know any CPU that does that wrongly, and gcc accepts it fine. < 1303484631 49936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/"/ < 1303484644 839179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:39:25: People who use twitter: What's twitterese for "Send answers by tagging @whoever"? < 1303484652 837559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Reply to [at]whoever" or similar, surely < 1303484660 777758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since [at]whoever is used as both an identifier of the person and the account < 1303484669 177372 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're aliasing an 8-bit and 32-bit value, then setting the PC based on the reading the /32/-bit value, after setting the /8/-bit value. < 1303484669 364907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And talking to someone always involves mentioning their [at]whatever < 1303484674 872207 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're in endianness hell. < 1303484679 75322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I *assume* that the quote is invented. < 1303484683 955675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Where the heck does eight bits come in. < 1303484697 945208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which instruction are you talking about < 1303484702 223997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303484709 983357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're referring to the ByteByteJump code which I didn't write? < 1303484713 912947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instead copied from the wiki? < 1303484718 523555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were talking about my Fythe stuff X_X < 1303484724 122245 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... lol X-D < 1303484724 309858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a person asked such a question would probably say something different, and be rather confused by the question) < 1303484729 822144 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm talking about language golfing here :P < 1303484734 971227 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your Fythe code is fine :P < 1303484742 462865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yah, I'm just saying that something like ByteByteJump MIGHT BE SIMPLER :P < 1303484745 560099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And provided that as an example. < 1303484761 639355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm personally wondering about cyclic tag, but that might cause memory management problems in C < 1303484772 248212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, cyclic tag in C would be horrible < 1303484774 408813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't just want to use a cyclic buffer < 1303484825 293336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.netaddiction.com/ "Internet chat rooms cause social disorders in teens and adults." < 1303484826 43740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES < 1303484827 673282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILTHY LIES < 1303484864 499875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :author of "Breaking Free of the Web: Catholics and Internet addiction" < 1303484865 959475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1303484867 79862 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why? don't you just need a pointer to the beginning and to the end, and suitable bounds checking? < 1303484872 199124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok. < 1303484879 879468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but Gregor has it in seventy-nine bytes < 1303484884 948041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like at least eighty already :D < 1303484888 338028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I see your code btw? < 1303484950 932493 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : FILTHY LIES <-- YEAH LET'S GO SET FIRE TO HIS HOUSE AS PUNISHMENT < 1303484963 907587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HER < 1303484964 95233 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :77 now < 1303484968 680755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AND GAMBLE ONLINE TO SPITE HER < 1303484971 550372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1303484975 170281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wanna try and make it portable :P < 1303484979 590015 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sprunge.us/RbfK < 1303484988 339454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pastebin for a single line, noice :P < 1303484996 488523 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dats rite bich < 1303485004 37812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I CANNOT AFFORD GAMBLING, I'M USING ALL MY MONEY ON DRUGS < 1303485005 218428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So this is K[and]R C, right? < 1303485023 996831 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on internet, of course < 1303485029 740012 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope. < 1303485036 265913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it is. < 1303485040 798306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"main()" is only valid in K[and]R C. < 1303485043 564733 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's semitraditional C in that it doesn't have a return type --- yeah :P < 1303485050 696873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You also assume that sizeof(char pointer) == sizeof(int), because you don't have a prototype for gets or puts. < 1303485062 832796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Blatantly False on large numbers of architectures. < 1303485065 659067 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't use their return values either. < 1303485074 531623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's just an error-checking problem. < 1303485082 231550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is a portability problem :P < 1303485094 369955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Remember that char-pointers and ints could have _different calling conventions_. < 1303485100 809734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll be damned if there isn't a machine where they do. < 1303485134 982823 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is the standard for how arguments are passed to no-prototype functions? I don't think it's int, int, int. I think it's like varargs. But I don't recall. < 1303485171 333540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, you might be right. Still, I don't think there's any guarantee puts and gets will work with that convention. < 1303485174 823188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda the point of prototypes :P < 1303485181 98431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, 9<<9 is smaller than 9999. < 1303485189 971871 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I already did that :P < 1303485227 168427 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Since I'm already assuming chars are signed, I think I've consigned myself to allowing such nonportable assumptions as "the machine is even vaguely sane" < 1303485230 68530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I'm not sure less than ten kibibytes (not octets, bytes) of memory counts as "Useful" :P < 1303485237 178277 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that the latter implies the former) < 1303485243 657611 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:53:47: dons is scaring me < 1303485243 845203 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:54:09: anytime i ask a question related to haskell, i end up arriving at an answer from dons < 1303485247 788508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm trying to remove such assumptions... OK, only the char one. < 1303485250 626986 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find all natural x,y,z such that 5^x - 3^y = z^2 < 1303485255 256091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: no. < 1303485258 896031 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason to be scared until you start hitting oleg papers instead < 1303485264 435033 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you do, you'll blow it up for no good reason. < 1303485265 243007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why can't you just use an int array? < 1303485271 74668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Moar RAM. < 1303485283 324033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the code has to handle setting all the high bits. < 1303485286 833240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... < 1303485293 262679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, gets will write to it properly, I think. < 1303485301 336086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, [four-or-whatever] bytes to the int. < 1303485305 52521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever :P < 1303485331 859174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw, your second argument is already an array pointers to chars... you could use that as memory... just sayin' < 1303485370 446000 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha < 1303485383 405180 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove that 2^(2^m+2^n)|F_n^(F_m-1)-1 < 1303485396 44241 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :fermat numbers < 1303485400 54433 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do people come up with this? < 1303485411 954309 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I thought about doing it in args, but bleh, that's so grotty, even for a golflang :P < 1303485430 850714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I assume you have seen the shortest BF interp? < 1303485433 180611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to make this to be a challenge for someone to decode and write a program for, not to just be retarded, btw. < 1303485446 984542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. MY DESIRE TO MODIFY IT LESSENS < 1303485469 819550 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure I have ... < 1303485475 897812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme find it. < 1303485486 856087 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it's <77 bytes :P < 1303485488 135705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[99],*r=s,*d,c;main(a,b){char*v=1[d=b];for(;c=*v++%93;)for(b=c&2,b=c%7?a&&(c&17 < 1303485488 323497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?c&1?(*r+=b-1):(r+=b-1):syscall(4-!b,b,r,1),0):v;b&&c|a**r;v=d)main(!c,&a);d=v;} < 1303485488 323687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1303485489 769750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://j.mearie.org/post/1181041789/brainfuck-interpreter-in-2-lines-of-c < 1303485502 308850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it relies on Unix, but still :P < 1303485507 664128 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why does it need to be two lines? X-P < 1303485513 823583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Linux and BSD have the right syscalls (read and write).) < 1303485521 844317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because people like to measure things in lines of code, and it's two eighty-char lines. < 1303485529 205668 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1303485549 620583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you want int memory, you can omit "char" entirely. < 1303485551 631290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And int is signed. < 1303485564 819169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9999],*a;main(){gets(a=b);while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];puts(b);} < 1303485569 257743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maed it shorter and moar portable < 1303485580 857759 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no, you made it LESS portable, now it depends on endianness. < 1303485586 34121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1303485587 947191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fecknuts. < 1303485601 726141 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with chars you can give most compilers -flol-make-your-chars-signed-kthx < 1303485620 340706 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do -flol-be-big-endian-now-just-for-kicks < 1303485624 824177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303485628 663641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You SHOULD be able to :P < 1303485637 854085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be a processor flag. < 1303485680 449226 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is on some processor, but even on those it has to be specified once and for all for the whole runtime, not per-program. < 1303485681 39039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It should be a processor flag. <-- some CPUs work like that < 1303485698 278344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: THE BEST ONES. < 1303485701 378089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hah, one second before you (on my side) < 1303485712 156795 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mine is more usefully detailed :P < 1303485718 90478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope nope nope, you should be able to flip it at arbitrary times, followed by a jump instruction. < 1303485726 515634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then OSes would just flip it in their multitasking stuff. < 1303485734 105953 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1303485738 234025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could change endianness HALF WAY THROUGH THE PROGRAM to take advantage of either. < 1303485742 54308 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that was my point, even the ones that do aren't sufficient. < 1303485742 895040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BEST. < 1303485746 513139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I thought you mean they'd change the endianness of the jump addresses < 1303485751 23379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as to make a primitive sort of jump table < 1303485754 472780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Clearly we must rectify this issue. < 1303485756 771763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahaha < 1303485793 899266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think PPC (32-bit ones) used to have something like that. I distinctly remember reading that some virtualisation software for PC that ran on classical mac used it to speed up things, but G5 lacked it, so the program had to be rewritten a bit < 1303485811 27940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For... PC? < 1303485813 482874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCs use PPCs now? < 1303485825 482215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. As in macs emulating x86 < 1303485838 109626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still remember seeing a Mac box with "PowerPC" on it, and I assumed that was the box that made it able to run Windows, and the real Mac was underneath the desk, out of sight :D < 1303485840 853432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, for running windows back on OS 9 < 1303485841 915375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was very, very young.) < 1303485865 483113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Surround_notation&curid=3828&diff=22129&oldid=22126 < 1303485869 543006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TehZ is retarded, discuss? < 1303485881 592343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C example isn't even a C example of that < 1303485902 200906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prefix notation is one of the four operator notations. It is sometimes combined with surround (when it needs a variable amount of arguments). It is one of the three powerful notations (Prefix, Postfix notation, Surround notation)." < 1303485908 119522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: TehZ has never heard of the ternary operator. < 1303485910 639606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or array indexing. < 1303485941 360925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or infix? < 1303485948 986596 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, even if the whole memory is only 9999 bytes, I'm not confident that you can USEFULLY access more than 256 bytes :P < 1303485958 75170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh wait, "one of the three _powerful_ notations" < 1303485963 696748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone just delete those three articles on account of being fucking stupid. < 1303485970 273962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infix notation is one of the 4 possible ways to describe a program. It is not as powerful as the others, so people usually add parenthesis, which makes it a combined notation (Infix-Surround)." < 1303485978 633776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1303485980 803586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org/TehZ's_opinions_blog/ < 1303485988 552583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org/TehZ's_opinions_blog/my_terminology_is_correct/ < 1303485989 122155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1303485999 910531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Lawl :P < 1303486035 290911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Administrative opinion on the NPOVness and pointlessness of those worthless articles? :P < 1303486056 944969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's called "not being a mammal" :P < 1303486060 58721 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :378) o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's called "not being a mammal" :P < 1303486063 692165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no /wiki/? < 1303486071 205323 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you like this one? 2^(2^m+2^n)|F_n^(F_m-1)-1 < 1303486079 46149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly /wiki/ means that in TehZ's native language < 1303486101 53801 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually now that I look at it again it's not as crazy < 1303486113 701952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why we have four wonderful articles, one of which's name he just made up, and one of them referring to Infix as a non-powerful notation because you also need his (made-up-name) surround notation of parentheses to use it fully < 1303486124 711770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and referring to prefix, postfix and surround as "powerful" notations < 1303486130 150808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite surround being unary, and so not "powerful" by his definition < 1303486139 709819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and despite the fact that the ternary operator, and array indexing, don't fall in to any of those categories < 1303486159 687141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infix notation is one of the 4 possible ways to describe a program." ;; also, there is no relation to programs, it is merely a way operators can be used < 1303486167 317298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok every single word in these articles is wrong < 1303486218 899178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:45:04: I would need five extra chars for "void ", unless it doesn't even allow main to be void. < 1303486224 797104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: main cannot return void in any standard ever. < 1303486232 741706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even think it's strictly valid GNU C. < 1303486245 482102 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, we came to that conclusion, but I'm golfin' here :P < 1303486290 416802 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just wanted all of the C features it used to be from the same decade X-D < 1303486299 175420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:53:13: Still, b[9<<9] is definitely not OK since 9<<9 isn't a literal :P < 1303486304 295179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really-constant < 1303486306 563018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is fine < 1303486316 864471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is < 1303486319 183913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can do [foo+bar] < 1303486323 517943 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1303486328 449668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, C89 and C99 both allow freestanding implementations to change the return value of main if necessary < 1303486328 637239 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irrelevant though since it's less than 9999 :P < 1303486337 231095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at Gregor realising that one[x] works :P < 1303486348 631349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: puts and gets ain't freestanding :P < 1303486350 601019 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MY BRAIN HATES IT SO MUCH < 1303486398 327147 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could express a[a[1]] more succinctly. < 1303486430 514677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1303486434 24187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :void _exit(int rv) { (void)rv; goto *(void*)0; } < 1303486439 303914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk](a + [asterisk](a + [one])) < 1303486457 422673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, I think you are fucked :P < 1303486463 671607 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: goto *(void*)0; isn't portable. < 1303486468 96241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: blain axplote < 1303486475 750538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you have a portable definition of _exit? < 1303486487 299663 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : TehZ is retarded, discuss? <-- maybe not in so strong words. but yeah those last articles seem a bit ill-considered. < 1303486524 586126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was also basing this on the fact that all the languages of his that I've seen are stupid :) < 1303486537 235656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Compute/IO <-- yes, we really need this. < 1303486596 829881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1303486599 889844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TehZ is also behind these < 1303486601 529333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java%27 < 1303486603 449232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's from gcc-bf; I was trying to remember if I'd used an unportable sort of main, but I didn't (I just call main by hand from some C code that actually starts the program) < 1303486605 108296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java%27%27 < 1303486610 488593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we agreed were the worst pages ever, I believe :) < 1303486617 508303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The goto is unportable, though :P < 1303486619 87741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's that great definition of exit < 1303486625 147484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's with the (void)rv :P < 1303486630 727096 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, I logged in and answered from a different computer, and it went nowhere >_< < 1303486633 646681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to mark it as unused < 1303486635 387088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Putting it into a "register"? < 1303486638 876361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1303486640 783690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that portable? < 1303486644 66918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still use rv afterwards. < 1303486647 617601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1303486652 135149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common portable idiom to mark an argument as unused < 1303486653 365108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your interpretation of those semantics conformant < 1303486657 324459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does nothing except stop lint complaining < 1303486670 303510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you don't get an unused argument error after doing that < 1303486676 829730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even compilers which don't know the idiom will just ignore it < 1303486683 852328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much the same thing as writing if((a=b)) < 1303486689 561746 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wtf, am I actually connected at all? CAN YOU HEAR ME? < 1303486691 101518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does gcc support it? < 1303486695 21431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1303486698 680952 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: void _exit(int rv) { (void)rv; *((int*)0) = 0; } is exactly as portable. < 1303486700 532843 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Unless you find me a system that disallows writing to NULL but allows jumping to NULL :) < 1303486702 650651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Err, rather, it's exactly as system-portable, while also being substantially more compiler-portable. < 1303486708 150142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even with -ansi -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -Werror? < 1303486713 249560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I didn't hear that < 1303486715 799581 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally that went through. < 1303486717 789342 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greatest lag ever. < 1303486723 278813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, jumping to NULL is what I needed to do there < 1303486731 707870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not really lag, more the fact that freenode's new ircd sucks balls. < 1303486732 228574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing to NULL wouldn't accomplish anything useful at al < 1303486734 368135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all < 1303486737 257625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's in ROM < 1303486766 884811 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So what you're saying is, you've found me a system that allows writing to NULL but disallows jumping to NULL :P < 1303486782 291207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the other way round < 1303486794 427985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf disallows writing to NULL, but allows jumping to NULL < 1303486799 482255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, jumping to *NULL, to be precise < 1303486813 60800 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this is all about gcc-bf? Is it being developed? < 1303486819 570387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It /was/ developed :P < 1303486822 80540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto *(void*)0; is definitely undefined behaviour < 1303486823 580277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it sits, bitrotting. < 1303486828 139981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's GNU C only, too < 1303486836 60156 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303486837 969294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can make it do what I like < 1303486856 877450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what I'm saying is < 1303486859 347122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's /not/ UB in C < 1303486862 390339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not even C code < 1303486867 376381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a simple parse error, even < 1303486867 565129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is UB < 1303486869 876235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303486870 63868 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "syntax error" in C :) < 1303486870 267337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the standard define it? < 1303486871 316049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a parse error < 1303486872 386200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, so it's undefined < 1303486873 155552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto takes a label < 1303486878 525449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's bullshit < 1303486883 670790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard defines what Undefined Behaviour means < 1303486886 204882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not bullshit, it's actually how the standard works < 1303486889 634529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this UB?: < 1303486891 314347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int ma( < 1303486893 909145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that program UB? < 1303486896 404092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just Not a Program? < 1303486900 823491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: the latter < 1303486910 232633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything it doesn't define is undefined, in addition to things specifically marked as undefined < 1303486911 702614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's UB < 1303486919 122343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this UB? < 1303486927 881017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if __SOME_IMPLEMENENTATION_NAMESPACE_FOO < 1303486930 771031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if( < 1303486932 171169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1303486934 520536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CPP, irrelevant < 1303486937 160324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a = 4; < 1303486949 499958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an invalid program IFF that thing is set < 1303486952 208931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it needs the last line to be valid C, as you have to have at least one declaration or definition per file) < 1303486954 629538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would totally bother to read the standard to prove you wrong, but I'm far too lazy to, so I'll ping fizzie instead. < 1303486966 378449 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we SERIOUSLY arguing about whether a syntax error is UNDEFINED BEHAVIOR? >_< < 1303486972 467150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: indeed, we are < 1303486978 357031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is < 1303486988 756673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that's definitively defined as making a program incorrect is #error < 1303486992 696521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, we're not, because fizzie is going to reply with two paragraphs from the standard that prove us right :-P < 1303486993 575306 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ISN'T EVEN BEHAVIOR, DEFINED OR OTHERWISE < 1303486996 915112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else is implementation-defined or UB < 1303487039 62263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:06:41: How many systems are there around where NULL isn't expressed as 0, anyways? < 1303487039 484035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:06:54: I mean, uh, there's Lisp machines which had NULL expressed as nil... < 1303487044 689943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it was (NIL . 0) < 1303487045 630754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1303487054 223954 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303487062 359927 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A conforming implementation shall produce at least one diagnostic message (identified in an implementation-defined manner) if a preprocessing translation unit or translation unit contains a violation of any syntax rule or constraint, even if the behavior is also explicitly specified as undefined or implementation-defined." < 1303487077 238282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2: If a ‘‘shall’’ or ‘‘shall not’’ requirement that appears outside of a constraint is violated, the behavior is undefined. Undefined behavior is otherwise indicated in this International Standard by the words ‘‘undefined behavior’’ or by the omission of any explicit definition of behavior. There is no difference in emphasis among these three; they all describe < 1303487078 627894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘‘behavior that is undefined’’. < 1303487087 67324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so Deewiant proves ais523 half-right :P < 1303487093 375979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also us half-right because you still have to whine about it. < 1303487102 225793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I proved me the other half right < 1303487112 125840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I should probably have reformatted that copy-paste from a PDF < 1303487116 684701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you added no new information to what Deewiant said < 1303487128 355775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/\.\.\. you cannot/[...] you cannot/' quotes < 1303487129 303591 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303487132 514285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 376 < 1303487133 493016 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :376) [...] you cannot always sanity, please. I can sometimes sanity, please. < 1303487158 121708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Deewiant's quote says that syntax errors should produce diagnostics even if also explicitly specified as UB < 1303487161 801033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine says that they're specified as UB < 1303487177 525558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's only true if there is no paragraph stating what a syntax error is, or similar < 1303487185 704393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things can override that < 1303487197 617452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it says that if a ''shall'' / ''shall not'' that appears outside of a constraint is violated, the behaviour's undefined < 1303487209 486833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the grammar of C a constraint? no < 1303487221 735543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how Agora rules can override universal quantifications in other rules? < 1303487236 884169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if sufficiently powerful < 1303487242 563762 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACK TO GOLF < 1303487247 703351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 1:zipWith(-)[2..](map((undefined:a)!!)a) in a < 1303487248 673460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,16,17,17,18,19... < 1303487252 223148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the C standard is all the same power. < 1303487264 412097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, so a contradiction between rules would be an error in the standard < 1303487271 711525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, there are no relevant contradictions, thus that rule is correct < 1303487287 829143 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 1:zipWith(-)[2..](map((undefined:a)!!)a) in zipWith(-)(tail a)a < 1303487288 503718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,... < 1303487292 400045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether Agora really is notable... < 1303487311 147260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're trolling again < 1303487321 977188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is, because there are no newspaper articles, etc., about it, and you'd expect there to be if it were < 1303487322 164829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because parts of standards blatantly do override generalisations in other parts < 1303487334 366124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure there aren't? < 1303487340 505330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1303487345 124740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I think we'd likely have noticed if there were < 1303487359 3730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there was in the nineties < 1303487371 832935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.8.6.1.1 "The identifier in a goto statement shall name a label located somewhere in the enclosing function." < 1303487382 231845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "shall", no contradiction with the other rule, no attempt to take scope < 1303487383 901920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy yet? < 1303487384 841773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: irrelevant, what matters is the syntatic definition < 1303487388 142469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that means is < 1303487392 742033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't name a label in _another_ scope < 1303487394 240604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, that's a constraint < 1303487395 780403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303487397 179616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a syntax error < 1303487404 229955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1303487409 29381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now what? < 1303487441 16635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will haven't found out if syntax errors are defined in a way that, through overriding or otherwise, doesn't count that catch-all < 1303487451 748864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]we still < 1303487464 994406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump-statement : goto identifier ; | continue ; | break ; | return expression_opt ; < 1303487472 714084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but we need a more general statement about syntax errors < 1303487478 213766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303487478 633197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.8.6.1.1 "The identifier in a goto statement shall name a label located somewhere in the enclosing function." < 1303487491 332299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sentence is meaningless if a goto statement contains something that isn't an identifier instead < 1303487506 611371 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we haven't even gotten to "it's a goto statement" < 1303487515 133696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I don't think something can be UB if making it valid would make a sentence in the standard meaningless < 1303487542 451991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as an invalid program in C, unless it contains #error < 1303487543 467814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it isn't, by that jump-statement rule < 1303487551 707296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just programs that require diagnostics, and programs that don't < 1303487556 306622 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exactly. < 1303487557 516499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ais523: and I don't think something can be UB if making it valid would make a sentence in the standard meaningless < 1303487567 209608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're complaining about < 1303487569 415621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"making it valid" < 1303487570 496156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then shut up < 1303487574 285352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is C-pedantry, not English-pedantry < 1303487602 226946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something is UB but can't, in any way, be given an interpretation without making lines in the standard meaningless or wrong < 1303487610 641814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a perfectly acceptable definition of "invalid" to me < 1303487659 47912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what makes you think that goto *(void*)0; is a goto statement? < 1303487662 777672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than some other sort of statement? < 1303487672 846671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, but you seem to be arguing it is < 1303487678 135996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clearly doesn't fit the syntax for goto statements, it might just be coincidence that it has the keyword "goto" in < 1303487690 934893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, I'm just arguing it's UB because the standard doesn't define it < 1303487733 649409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders going into hash-hash-c and asking for help with the program "}][K()VPOLE{A:">,z00" < 1303487745 962024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although here's a nice statement, the definition of UB: " behavior, upon use of a nonportable or erroneous program construct or of erroneous data, for which this International Standard imposes no requirements" < 1303487755 619427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I know it's UB, but it's perfectly defined on my system, so can you just help me fix my problem, which is in the ANSI C part?" < 1303487757 409353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as far as I can tell, the burden's on you to find an actual requirement that's imposed < 1303487761 688429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm looking for one here < 1303487781 407754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:38:49: i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was invented, but now they just feel like ancient history < 1303487782 856998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303487787 456963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd go into comp.lang.c and say I had a question about the meaning of the standard, as to whether the program in question is completely meaningless or merely UB < 1303487801 715673 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.std.c < 1303487808 834675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: perhaps < 1303487812 45052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, I don't think you understand the part where I'm trying to annoy hash-hash-c because they're shitheads :) < 1303487822 333380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you generally don't take threads there until comp.lang.c has told you to < 1303487822 718127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any luck, PoppaVic wouldn't shut up for a whole day < 1303487854 500484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can call out 4.7 on you, too < 1303487866 9689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically says that a program is conforming if at least one conforming C implementation accepts it < 1303487877 438684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be the question, I suppose < 1303487883 948557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C isn't conforming, when it accepts statements like that < 1303487886 498318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wtf at that definition) < 1303487911 236048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can an implementation that merely diagnostics on, rather than rejecting, goto *(void*)0; be conforming? < 1303487947 782642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is yes, because conforming implementations are allowed extensions that don't affect the behaviour of any strictly conforming programs < 1303487959 429844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we on the fast-track to saying that every object is a valid C program < 1303487961 841149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt you can use that line, other than in a string or ifdeffed out, in a strictly conforming function < 1303487965 656523 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The intent is that an implementation should identify the nature of, and where possible localize, each violation. Of course, an implementation is free to produce any number of diagnostics as long as a valid program is still correctly translated. It may also successfully translate an invalid program." < 1303487970 729048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in platonic space, there is a perfectly conforming C implementation that accepts any object < 1303487973 800346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unless it has a #error directive in it that isn't ifdeffed out, yes < 1303487980 247451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HA < 1303487982 30306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: invalid IS defined < 1303487993 8868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a little dance < 1303487993 771161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that shows that it's used < 1303487995 718903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's defined < 1303487998 147983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1303487999 517842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you < 1303488012 67166 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was a footnote for "[d]iagnostic messages need not be produced in other circumstances.") < 1303488023 196400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the footnotes aren't normative < 1303488024 679766 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which follows my previous paste) < 1303488040 274616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, cpp $1 && echo "This is a diagnostic." is a valid C compiler < 1303488045 974035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conforming, in fact < 1303488050 204180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard is a crock of shit, let's argue about RRRRRS instead < 1303488052 113657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1303488055 133482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard is a crock of shit, let's argue about RRRRRRS instead < 1303488065 262430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpp step's only needed to catch #error < 1303488072 201746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, R7RS is out now < 1303488077 467168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RRRRRRS is only R5RS < 1303488081 121839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1303488086 540389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, R[seven]RS is not out now, you are wrong < 1303488091 262988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, I meant R[five]RS < 1303488094 720098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's in beta or something? < 1303488099 259621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: X_X < 1303488103 126979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called a draft of Small Scheme. < 1303488103 729028 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :R7RS is like a small step backwards from R5RS < 1303488104 739857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard, that is < 1303488109 539829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if any work has been done on Big Scheme. < 1303488114 978416 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's okay since R6RS was a huge step backwards < 1303488116 497977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they named it something else, IIRC < 1303488121 979329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who liked it < 1303488122 166770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really give a damn because the committee has lost all respect. < 1303488129 106864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? < 1303488134 307589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then pretended it wasn't Scheme < 1303488141 488248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you're talking about < 1303488168 304155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, but it was something about the people who liked R6RS made a trivial derivative and renamed it, then pretended it wasn't Scheme, for some sort of reason I don't understand < 1303488185 943151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard anything about that, but everyone who likes R6RS is basically insane, so nothing can surprise me. < 1303488220 189324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Small Scheme as defined by the R[Seven]RS draft is pretty much identical to R[Five]RS, except for the removal of two random functions and one or two changes that seem stupid. < 1303488236 257808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. adding a module system, which is useful for /systems/, which is not the target market of R[Five]RS family languages like Small Scheme < 1303488265 498273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can't find any evidence of my statement < 1303488275 524138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either a) I was mistaken, or b) I was completely accurate but nobody cared < 1303488416 744903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it was a group of people on Reddit, who may or may not have been lying, claiming that Racket went and forked R6RS (the spec), then removed all references to it being Scheme < 1303488425 420993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and based on their website, that does indeed seem to be the case < 1303488432 100760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303488447 569203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It astonishes me how often ais523 seems to take things from reddit, distort them utterly, and then immediately start to present them as fact. < 1303488448 189245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : On June 7th, 2010, PLT Scheme was renamed Racket to emphasize how far it had diverged from the original Scheme programming language. < 1303488461 381638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a start, Racket is not a fork of R[six]RS. < 1303488464 897519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither was PLT Scheme. < 1303488471 757433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but everyone knows reddit's view of reality is distorted! I'm just distorting it back again! < 1303488479 274026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's annoying. < 1303488483 437003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLT Scheme is a derivative of R[five]RS. It is significantly different. < 1303488486 617446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Significantly._ < 1303488489 896476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They decided to rebrand to Racket because < 1303488499 3468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one) Schemers were pissed off that it was called Scheme, and < 1303488506 64163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two) they were pissed off that people thought it was Scheme. < 1303488515 653585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it seems that there was a flamewar on reddit over the point < 1303488519 823547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with people quoting statistics at each other < 1303488527 422146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A flamewar on reddit? SHOCKING < 1303488537 588111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about whether the PLT Scheme/MzScheme people were responsible for R6RS or not < 1303488552 549895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they all voted for it :) < 1303488580 957370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it's not like I care too much about Scheme anyway < 1303488591 556615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's so inelegant because it has quote. < 1303488593 856406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1303488610 796281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, as in 'x or (quote x)? < 1303488612 475275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else? < 1303488617 574388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're talking to me? < 1303488627 764168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I find Lisp/Scheme-style macros incredibly inelegant and ugly < 1303488632 684680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, you just seem to hate special forms because of [incomprehensible]. < 1303488634 691324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special forms are not macros. < 1303488636 643015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all special forms, in fact < 1303488653 201473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The lambda calculus would be far better. < 1303488653 863735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1303488656 518855 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even syntax-rules? < 1303488657 290886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda is a special form too. < 1303488673 221041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG YOU MEAN THAT LANGUAGES HAVE PRIMITIVE ELEMENTES??//////////////////////// < 1303488678 579527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: well, I prefer to keep the number down, not encourage proliferation < 1303488694 697846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider combinatory calculus nicer than lambda calculus specifically because it doesn't have to track lambdas < 1303488708 236845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but S and K and I are primitives < 1303488710 858115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't implement them < 1303488715 516384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore they're pretty close to special forms < 1303488716 95970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes < 1303488726 195394 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303488743 833322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the thing's parametric on them < 1303488759 452152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have them as an FFI to a different language, if you liek < 1303488760 902343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1303488795 59005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the compiler I'm writing at work at the moment, all the constants are in fact implemented via FFI, apart from integers because it would be a pain to have to implement each integer separately, and the fixed-point operator because it's too polymorphic) < 1303488808 268258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I replace Feather with the SKI+RRI calculus that has complete definitions of all of those in terms of themselves? < 1303488810 17962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAY YES. < 1303488829 535850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I'm not sure what you mean by replacing Feather < 1303488839 765247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, use Feather to turn Feather into < 1303488844 585132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]. < 1303488894 50379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear it'd take more sanity than I have left just to fully understand the question < 1303488900 319898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I hope I don't have to answer it < 1303488919 561808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, let me rephrase. < 1303488937 446779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can I use Feather to create an SKI environment in which SKI are /not/ primitives, but defined, despite the fact that there is no lambda? < 1303488947 146107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also have RRI or some other similarly Feather Operator, so long as it is also defined. < 1303488973 306364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be metacircular-by-cheating, I think < 1303488982 172593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be done in such a way that there'd be no way to prove it < 1303489060 436064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm talking Gregor levels of metacircular, here < 1303489062 36436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1303489093 795415 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY, mine totally was not cheating. < 1303489103 32188 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The environments were still strictly segregated. < 1303489128 290031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't actually seen it < 1303489152 298514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even after I temporarily broke my no-github policy to try to look at it, I was then unable to see it because github requires JS or something silly like that < 1303489187 374897 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it requires JS for pull requests (which is weird) < 1303489214 962630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a no /visiting/ GitHub policy? < 1303489227 41365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its ToS used to disallow my browser < 1303489236 950666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you never agreed to its ToS, it only applies to registering < 1303489237 510373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been changed to be slightly saner since, but it's still a little ridiculous < 1303489245 522983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, but it's the principle of the thing < 1303489254 829438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if ais523 exists purely to remind everyone in the universe that someone will always make things awkward. < 1303489258 168818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: X_X < 1303489270 929312 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott++ < 1303489271 210848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in this case, github < 1303489285 186353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My point squares. < 1303489360 180098 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/LSPX < 1303489382 47989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's pretty much exactly what I guessed it was < 1303489397 331512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the details, but in the concept < 1303489397 519162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should have pasted it in-channel to be annoying :P < 1303489409 472441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: its ToS used to disallow my browser <-- huh? < 1303489413 725299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which browser < 1303489426 84582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It forbid blocking ads, despite the fact that there were no ads and as such the clause was inactive. < 1303489441 30362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It now no longer does so but ais523 upholds his policy because it's inconvenient, or something. < 1303489445 82200 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right, and it's TOTALLY NOT CHEATING, it's straight-up metacircularity! < 1303489445 642585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, that is somewhat silly in the TOS indeed. < 1303489455 501791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it only applies to registered accounts, which ais523 never created, and so it was doubly-irrelevant. < 1303489458 71812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :function isValidIdentifierChar(ch, first) { var x = {}; x["x"+ch] = true; x[ch] = true; try { return (eval("(x." + (first?"":"x") + ch + ")") ? true : false); } catch (ex) { return false; } } < 1303489466 551374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why that can't be pasted in-channel < 1303489474 376478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :function isValidIdentifierChar(ch, first) { < 1303489474 564267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : // create an object to test this in < 1303489474 800419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : var x = {}; < 1303489474 988192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x["x"+ch] = true; < 1303489474 988382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x[ch] = true; < 1303489475 194111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : // then try < 1303489477 329723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : try { < 1303489479 58481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (eval("(x." + (first?"":"x") + ch + ")") ? true : false); < 1303489481 149884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } catch (ex) { < 1303489483 159564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return false; < 1303489485 319734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1303489487 158004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1303489489 110066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTFY < 1303489491 89199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stripped valuable things, like the comment < 1303489492 451744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you didn't reformat it first? shame on you < 1303489496 238276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stripped valuable things, like the comment < 1303489507 206116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically i skipped a blank line < 1303489507 991814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't particularly valuable, and besides, it'd have commented out the rest of the line < 1303489508 697080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unacceptable < 1303489516 716600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely, so your method of pasting was bad < 1303489519 576262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bad, rather < 1303489521 645296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about changing the comments to /* */ instead, though < 1303489530 175535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is the meaning of the code < 1303489532 35129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't hackego or some other bot in here had a wolfram alpha interface iirc? < 1303489534 634852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be lying < 1303489561 952300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no; would you consider posting a disassembly of .NET or jvm code to be lying? < 1303489566 814008 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"then try" = most valuable comment ever. < 1303489585 509033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, why would you consider preprocessing code mentally slightly to be lying? < 1303489591 650636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YES. < 1303489601 428931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that I've posted Python oneliners in here before < 1303489605 89113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal's filtering of all-caps comments are also lying. < 1303489608 247521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING LYING < 1303489613 757786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]is also < 1303489626 177400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm pre-processing them to not be all caps < 1303489632 756313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the form exec " if x:\n do this\n else:\n do that" < 1303489638 585639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I've got the Python syntax right < 1303489642 635329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like that, anyway < 1303489649 730448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the only person I would be "lying" to would be myself. < 1303489658 184214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that this is a great argument for one-char indentation; using any more would make it even harder to read) < 1303489678 886697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh, you have a script/replace that lowercases allcaps comments? < 1303489684 997877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use Enterprise Braces Syntax instead < 1303489687 52569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an interrobang remover, but it doesn't actually work < 1303489702 71043 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, even though I've typed "unsigned char" uncountably many times, it makes more sense for it to be signed by default, since that's consistent with all the other types. < 1303489706 742641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enterprise Braces Syntax‽‽‽‽‽ < 1303489713 359366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: char makes no fucking sense in general :P < 1303489720 278554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is that one interrobang plus four regular question marks? < 1303489729 925540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not, wtf is my interrobang remover doing? < 1303489742 376889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you forgot /g < 1303489745 248059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, what < 1303489751 366408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There should be a signed "byte" type, and an unsigned "char" type. That's a lie, but that's how it should have been back when ASCII made any sense at all. < 1303489752 645611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that wouldn't make a difference < 1303489756 895539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's replacing... all but the first? < 1303489760 636736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, a few days ago elliott was using upper case for almost every line, this went on for about 5 screens of scrollback < 1303489776 853730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Really there should be a signed byte type and a unsigned-twenty-one-bits-or-more-with-undefined-overflow "codepoint" type :P < 1303489777 134421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what IRC clients should do? combine all lines spoken in a row by one person together < 1303489780 953945 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "byte" is too specific a name for C. It should be "reallyshort" :P < 1303489782 808155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gnome-chat does < 1303489785 774060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd mean you'd always be one line behind < 1303489787 363735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by omitting the names < 1303489792 172115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl < 1303489798 78077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "dwarf" < 1303489798 342720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: short short! < 1303489803 341672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but actually it is somewhat more advanced, than "all caps" in deciding if to lower case a line or not < 1303489829 579522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was actually an argument on comp.lang.c as to whether short short int; should be added to the standard in preparation for 128 bits becoming a common length for int < 1303489851 327333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, 64-bit int, 128-bit long < 1303489862 506509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you specify both 16 and 32? < 1303489882 334654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303489936 890518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can see an issue here if we get more lengths. We can get up to 128 on the current scheme (int = 32, long = 64, long long = 128) but after that we start getting silly names like long long long long for 512 bits. < 1303489968 635037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :long is the wrong name < 1303489970 637032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be tall < 1303489975 167462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, stacking short at the other end would only mitigate the issue temporarily. < 1303489976 796334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :short, long??? < 1303489977 76526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303489977 820267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :short, tall < 1303489981 226471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we just need like < 1303489981 646095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :giant < 1303489985 455932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf, short, tall, giant < 1303489993 385181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1303490002 835672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not move everything and call 16-bit "long char" < 1303490076 908012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, short short char, short char, char, long char, long long char, short short int, short int, int, long int, long long int. < 1303490103 195745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is short int valid in current C? < 1303490138 862692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303490141 822837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303490142 10466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means the same thing as short < 1303490149 521368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but char int isn't I presume? < 1303490153 281116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1303490158 751604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303490209 688756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you could extend the above scheme by applying the same principle as used for a compass orientation like "ENE" < 1303490221 765722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could have long short char and so on < 1303490412 968655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why /isn't/ "char int" valid? < 1303490414 188671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char is stupid < 1303490416 579508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the stupidest of the types. < 1303490427 197998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the name, yes indeed < 1303490437 16530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why isn't it just a modifier like short? < 1303490446 955613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned charred int < 1303490480 751062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1303490643 200119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another way to solve the issue would be to not define the extra types but instead depend on stdint.h. Which is perfectly fine to implement using some implementation specific way < 1303490708 899211 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why would oleg be scary? < 1303490871 769054 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: JUST BE HAPPY YOU DON'T KNOW < 1303490907 297441 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tell me... i want to be prepared < 1303490923 414537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's annoying? websites that modify cookies whenever you change which form field has focus < 1303490944 411954 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, earlier today i google images'd dons' real name, and i came up with a photo of john holmes, a porno star. < 1303490957 882502 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/ don't say i didn't warn you < 1303490982 54410 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even more funnier given the fact that john holmes once used a screen name of eddie haskell. < 1303491001 639660 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i've actually had that open in another tab already. < 1303491043 348785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oleg ate my children < 1303491047 740267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when he spit them out < 1303491050 253837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were in the type system < 1303491176 513062 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303491212 329631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: oleg is an FAI which has uploaded us all into its type system < 1303491219 768742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best theory < 1303491401 963685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1303491524 899629 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303491941 276523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://okmij.org/ftp/ don't say i didn't warn you <-- that url reminds me, I had a dream tonight, where someone insisted on that "ftp" was an acronym for "friendly teleport protocol" < 1303492084 3804 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason reddit is so good is because they rewrote their program from lisp to python < 1303492111 368804 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this friendly teleport protocol is very reliable, consistently teleporting at least 90% of your body < 1303492169 566364 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303492184 425022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the only issue with the usual teleport devices is that they are not reliable in the presence of plot devices. < 1303492188 275253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: if a random person said that sentence in that way i would consider them trolling < 1303492201 39303 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet? < 1303492258 262293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, "yet?". < 1303492261 748869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i'm on ignore < 1303492271 367678 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you threatening me < 1303492277 126910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303492434 183734 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-61-68.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1303492674 853210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303492777 866979 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-63-117.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303493600 373523 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303494022 871890 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-63-117.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1303494063 379992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, ZEPTO has no special forms. < 1303494067 21791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it does, but all it has is special forms. < 1303494376 865746 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-3-62.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303494812 37769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303494814 819678 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-3-62.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1303494823 129335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how could a language have no special forms? < 1303494835 315257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By only having primitives. < 1303494839 874785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1303494842 186848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not evaluating arguments by default < 1303494847 96430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]default. < 1303494856 704415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. quote is implemented like you'd implement "id". < 1303494862 523221 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303494864 519399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303494865 862986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a function layer implemented on top, that evaluates all the arguments before passing them. < 1303494877 521746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then how would you force evaluation? < 1303494884 830950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303494886 270694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eval? < 1303494896 234756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't eval then a special form? < 1303494901 826004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? It takes an object. < 1303494905 259109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303494906 958752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1303494916 66233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it evaluates its argument twice. < 1303494923 315217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only because everything evaluates its argument one less time than normal. < 1303494931 6930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (id x) (eval x)) (id (+ 9 9)) -> a number I can't type < 1303494945 826598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (quote x) x) (id (+ 9 9)) -> (+ 9 9) < 1303494956 380319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that "define" would actually be a different name. < 1303494964 677200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the normal definition mechanism would automatically add argument-evaluation code in. < 1303494973 323463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, define is surely a special form? < 1303494978 965244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1303494985 530435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, ARGUMENTS ARE NOT EVALUATED BY DEFAULT < 1303494990 952054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1303494992 61846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303494993 961317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the same as normal-Lisp (define '(quote x) 'x). < 1303495004 520615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need PRIMITIVES, but no special forms. < 1303495013 70159 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303495015 870480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1303495029 498508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so eval and define would be primitives? < 1303495031 219026 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-46-107.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303495491 10227 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303495615 47564 :auroraxxx9!~nemo@95.57.88.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303495686 81519 :auroraxxx9!~nemo@95.57.88.72 PART :#esoteric < 1303496837 461712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood < 1303496845 145137 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1303496871 199292 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest8478 < 1303496873 78466 :Guest8478!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/IDxMq.png <-- my 77-byte interpreter: Totally portable :P < 1303496880 17803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303496881 178723 :Guest8478!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, how did I guestify < 1303496895 196167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest8478: But did you use OpenWatcom to compile it???? < 1303496902 126477 :Guest8478!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1303496904 544330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or better < 1303496906 76558 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup < 1303496906 455950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRE-Open Watcom. < 1303496910 75648 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :P < 1303496910 495038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... X-D < 1303496917 414561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the kind of Watcom that actually runs on DOS :P < 1303496920 194331 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a .COM file :P < 1303496922 994933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also install real DOS (Yes, you can do that in DOSBox). < 1303496927 974894 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom runs on DOS, it just doesn't have an installer. < 1303496936 43851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK but it doesn't count because that isn't real DOS. < 1303496939 412680 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can do that in DOSBox, it's just pointlessly painful. < 1303496946 262176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But AUTHENTIC. < 1303496953 961560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like using qemu though :P < 1303496958 960840 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course. < 1303496967 810776 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that `dosbox .` = awesomesauce :P < 1303496974 489324 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE POINT IS MY 77-BYTE INTERPRETER WORKS ON 16-BIT DOS :P < 1303497016 156960 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is in "gold mode" < 1303497073 520196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gode. < 1303497258 275650 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303497281 573055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm is openwatcom any good? < 1303497328 609314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... Open Watcom. < 1303497424 841109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303497461 7839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was that a remark about how I spelled it or was it a remark intended to convey that it is in some way unique/weird/special? < 1303497486 365432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps both? < 1303497498 665429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has used it, I haven't (well, I did once, in Windows Ninety-Five.) < 1303497502 843879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask him :P < 1303497506 544296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303497554 9762 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a compiler that was tolerable for DOS, then make it run on Windows and even Linux. < 1303497567 77356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, does that mean the end results suck? < 1303497572 357657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :result* < 1303497588 866220 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The results are probably just fine, not as good as GCC of course, but decent. < 1303497595 604349 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interface is just ... classique. < 1303497618 723915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh, let me guess... it uses / for flags even under *nix? < 1303497619 4374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They prefer "vintage". Like fine wine. < 1303497652 351354 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually it went whole-hog to - for flags everywhere (I think it still "legacy" accepts / on non-Unix, but the help text has -s), but e.g. the linker takes a linker script. < 1303497664 969401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlink system dos file lolsomefile file lolsomeotherfile file wtfareflags < 1303497680 688526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, um. The GNU linker also takes linker scripts < 1303497696 761891 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ld has flags. It takes linker scripts as SCRIPTS, not arguments :P < 1303497707 85941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1303497712 825499 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :See command line above :P < 1303497723 815774 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, and the 32-bit compiler is wcc386 < 1303497731 593673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can you link using GNU ld instead? < 1303497738 893365 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, probably? Lemme check. < 1303497757 641753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also, hm, does it support C99 nowdays? < 1303497795 138306 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tiny bit, not much. < 1303497799 8105 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAHAHAHA AWESOME, observe: < 1303497801 238275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303497828 577493 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, hold a bit then observe :P < 1303497834 971442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1303497847 173796 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wcc386 interp.c < 1303497847 361346 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303497847 361519 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file interp.o < 1303497852 124649 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file interp < 1303497853 243468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:26:18: -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Something Russia is famous for: Russians.). < 1303497853 434193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1303497854 131248 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :interp: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (GNU/Linux), statically linked, not stripped < 1303497864 972236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhhhh < 1303497870 601956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dollar] gcc foo.c < 1303497872 579621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dollar] file foo.o < 1303497874 75551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dollar] file a.out < 1303497877 931022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out: lol file < 1303497891 100486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's... as bad as gcc, except it uses a reasonable output filename :P < 1303497901 659090 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... it's the FORMAT you're supposed to be looking at. < 1303497913 935723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the CPU? :P < 1303497947 660370 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an ELF .o (which doesn't REALLY matter, but is pretty lols), and it's not even a 32-bit format (presumably?) :P < 1303497961 23635 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long story short: No, you cannot use GNU ld :P < 1303497971 883852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, um to gcc you need to give -c to get object files out < 1303497981 781994 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is not GCC, now is it. < 1303497995 451081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so presumably there is some other flag for it? < 1303498013 93037 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The compiler is just a compiler, not a compiler frontend. < 1303498023 665699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1303498043 137163 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also includes "owcc" as a compiler frontend, but that's new) < 1303498050 926149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's not an ELF .o (which doesn't REALLY matter, but is pretty lols), and it's not even a 32-bit format (presumably?) :P < 1303498051 666078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : interp: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (GNU/Linux), statically linked, not stripped < 1303498060 565696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a thirty-two bit ELF executable to me? < 1303498066 915130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you SURE it's not the final binary? :P < 1303498072 364618 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M - TALKING - ABOUT - THE - .o - FORMAT - YOU - DIPSHIT < 1303498074 85369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the CPU exactly right. < 1303498076 144229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh. < 1303498097 121932 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it figures out the final format, or it wouldn't even run >_< < 1303498098 987234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a strange .o format though < 1303498114 580697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is that .o actually not an executable binary? < 1303498121 610133 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1303498127 869473 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I give up on you people. < 1303498193 254173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303498199 93335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: at least I give up after one try < 1303498206 283161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal just asks without reading first < 1303498249 949016 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story short: Open Watcom is the screwiest compiler you can get to run on a modern system without too much difficulty :P < 1303498253 798376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I meant as in "did you try it"? < 1303498287 232147 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you kidding me? Even if "relocatable" didn't mean "relocatable object file", my kernel wouldn't know how to load it. < 1303498293 185339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, BECAUSE it seems so absurd to make the object file format use the flags in the ELF headers so it looks like an executable < 1303498310 123695 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303498312 394386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up. < 1303498328 94524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. It is a damn strange object file, that is my point < 1303498350 10307 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my point, but you seem to think it's substantially more strange than it is :P < 1303498396 156801 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... ARRRRRRRRRRGH < 1303498398 966551 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read the logs. < 1303498403 465809 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my lines didn't go through :P < 1303498409 44963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That _was_ teh point? < 1303498416 205196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which line? < 1303498416 392652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I didn't realise it wasn't actually the output binary. < 1303498430 583284 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't get that with the [lolsymbol]s :P < 1303498448 311509 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file interp.o < 1303498448 541699 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :interp.o: 8086 relocatable (Microsoft) < 1303498452 771764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh < 1303498459 679953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay *that* explains everything < 1303498468 710445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that line got lost < 1303498471 539542 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My apologies for Freenode going "haw I'mma eat that line now" < 1303498474 99840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : [dollar] file foo.o < 1303498474 287474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : [dollar] file a.out < 1303498485 107951 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I didn't get that with the [lolsymbol]s :P < 1303498488 438961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303498509 647692 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : let's talk entirely by quoting each other 8D < 1303498530 327634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm secretly gay for Vorpal. < 1303498534 192670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :another line dropped by freenode < 1303498571 250946 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm secretly straight for (female) red slime mold < 1303498587 439852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they /are/ delicious. < 1303498603 48059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, iirc they have more than two genders? < 1303498611 152635 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sexes < 1303498701 120418 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slime molds? < 1303498715 730174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They reproduce asexually. < 1303498723 679163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is why they are so delicious. < 1303498727 336749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE I AM MAKING A NETHACK REFERENCE < 1303498731 997546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND EVERYONE IS ALL ASEXUALLYING ME < 1303498763 587696 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're the one fucking slime molds. < 1303498780 559421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "They begin life as amoeba-like cells. These unicellular amoebae are commonly haploid and multiply if they encounter their favorite food, bacteria. These amoebae can mate if they encounter the correct mating type and form zygotes which then grow into plasmodia. [...]" < 1303498785 996383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what that counts as < 1303498814 240513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1303498830 499552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, they reproduce asexually as well as far as I understand < 1303498941 329128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please confirm to me that seahorses can in fact impregnate themselves. < 1303499025 781708 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slime molds are so cool < 1303499032 761447 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :macroscopic, but single-cell < 1303499139 860096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CA0UE6yRQ ;; downright pornographic to Gregor < 1303499377 141599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the patriotism. < 1303499535 86515 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1303499692 614216 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303499702 243996 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1303499767 737293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303500254 147893 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303500571 787845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any easy way to convert a wavelength in the spectrum (at a given intensity) to a value in sRGB (or the closest approximation if it falls outside sRGB) < 1303500597 237582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be perfect, it only has to be good enough to look reasonable < 1303500636 641623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a hard problem tm < 1303500650 660753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I suspected that < 1303500753 281506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one way would be to use an image of a spectrum as a lookup table. And for the use I have in mind, the intensity can be fixed in advance < 1303500762 70746 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think there'd be a table somewhere < 1303500795 398216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and interpolate in between values in your lookup table) < 1303500853 798853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh google seems to indicate you can do it as a matrix multiplication < 1303500862 332043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have it in XYZ < 1303500864 436977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1303500886 849516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't explain how you go from wavelength to xyz < 1303500991 559567 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-46-107.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT : < 1303501031 685604 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303501072 283630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xyz? < 1303501093 470249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, CIE XYZ colour space yes < 1303501135 737976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway found an article on it < 1303501138 398858 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CABAL WHY ARE YOU SO BAD < 1303501139 827839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks rather complicated < 1303501148 466994 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why is cabal so bad? < 1303501154 320941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should I know... < 1303501155 534780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So basically it only explains an algorithm for CIE XYZ to sRGB, which has nothing to do with wavelength to anything :P < 1303501174 834940 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, i have finally figured out what your nick means. it's a mutilation of Voralp, which is the general area where bavaria is located. < 1303501177 965587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1303501180 274171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except wavelength -> XYZ seems to be the first step < 1303501187 202754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found an article that explains the full thing < 1303501199 558309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xyz = wavelength_to_xyz(wl); // implementation left as an exercise to the reader < 1303501210 571804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the first article was like that yes < 1303501239 297857 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what ever you're doing with color, you'll probably need color space compression < 1303501242 269462 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is non-trivial < 1303501243 399295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not sure I require the full thing. For what I wanted this seems like WAAAY overkill < 1303501268 33548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says the author of cfunge. < 1303501271 836546 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space#Color_matching_functions < 1303501321 472404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, All I wanted was to use the natural spectrum to colourise datapoints in a graph. It seemed like a good one. More detail than just a red-yellow-green scale or such < 1303501339 520941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so yeah, the full blown thing seems like way overkill < 1303501339 940345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overkill is the best kind of kill < 1303501341 240362 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you can only inject wavelength into a spectrum. < 1303501342 300061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from murder. < 1303501352 285881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think you mean "there is no kill like overkill"? < 1303501360 360061 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that almost _all_ natural spectral colors are outside of rgb, right? :D < 1303501361 551850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tvtropes made that up, not me) < 1303501361 899381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what I say. < 1303501387 337193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm yes? I know it doesn't give intensity < 1303501414 364282 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw "color matching function" and thought "who's on my TURF?" < 1303501422 163620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as long as it looks plausible. Doesn't have to be fully accurate. < 1303501443 971568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but good enough that you would say "oh, that looks like a spectrum" < 1303501465 679627 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1303501659 42782 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1303501715 709431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, it seems quite straightforward (though tedious): http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/specrend/ < 1303501735 556953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THERE ANYTHING THAT JOHN WALKER HASN'T GOT HIS GRUBBY MITTS IN < 1303501748 484683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who is he? < 1303501757 234963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original author of AutoCAD, owner of a way too big website. < 1303501777 342144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HotBits, for one. < 1303501782 308549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as SO MUCH OTHER SHIT < 1303501782 627545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean http://www.fourmilab.ch/ ? Yeah it seems rather comprehensive. < 1303501787 431762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, HotBits? < 1303501795 238901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1303501796 941076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFGI < 1303501832 327590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, a random number service < 1303501833 397050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303501837 949945 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-46-107.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303501854 136223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: More relevantly, the first true RNG on the internet. < 1303501857 265421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe that lava lamp-based one. < 1303501863 894801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LavaRnd. < 1303501867 161700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1303501868 484821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LavaRnd is only two thousand. < 1303501873 524405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, hotbits is the oldes. < 1303501874 213931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t. < 1303501881 103067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nineteen ninety six. < 1303501908 537617 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to lol at the numberlessness. < 1303501914 610423 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised you didn't type one99six < 1303501947 917545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must stay ELEGANT. < 1303501955 536952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like BEFORE THEY INVENTED DIGITS < 1303501967 316135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm where does lava lamps come into lavarnd? < 1303501989 264731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFreadthewebsite < 1303501993 743845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1303502021 971412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: LavaRndtm does not use LAVA LITE ® lamps. LAVA LITE lamps were used in SGI classic lavarandtm. See the difference between SGI classic lavarand and our LavaRnd for details. For information on what LavaRnd does use, see the LavaRnd process in detail. < 1303502038 179475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theirs is bullshit because it doesn't actually use lava light. < 1303502047 778821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]lava lamps. < 1303502052 260600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But http://www.lavarnd.org/news/lavadiff.html < 1303502054 78239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lavarand does. < 1303502062 598557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From 1997 through 2001,[2] there was a web site at http://lavarand.sgi.com/ demonstrating the technique. Landon Curt Noll, one of the originators, went on to help develop LavaRnd, which does not use lava lamps. Despite the short life of lavarand.sgi.com, it is often cited as an example of an online random number source.[3][4] < 1303502064 477799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, HotBits. < 1303502099 160803 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is clearly a random number source using actual _lava_ < 1303502106 124959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303502140 436996 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :elitist < 1303502198 626065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anwyay, what is your opinion of John Walker? < 1303502204 320067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anwyay. < 1303502213 934289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, anyway* < 1303502221 433698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, easy to hit keys in wrong order < 1303502286 118149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. < 1303502415 951942 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASEY < 1303502491 60144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, Have I Got News For You just put up a subtitle-like thing at the bottom of the screen saying "#HIGNFY", without elaboration < 1303502502 199587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems very likely to refer to Twitter < 1303502517 178357 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HGNNNNF < 1303502519 948681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that Twitter have successively captured the # followed by letters notation in the public imagination < 1303502547 85607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we use sRGB still. It is so limited. Something significantly larger should be easily possible with modern monitor technology. < 1303502590 265318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would assume IRC channel < 1303502610 810132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: without a server specified? < 1303502616 766932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on here it'd be obvious < 1303502620 999120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303502625 20162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a TV program, there's no reason to guess any IRC server over any other < 1303502626 90063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah it's strange. < 1303502635 297509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it was a TV program? < 1303502643 757955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303502646 398409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303502649 976411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is, in fact, it's on at the moment < 1303502650 366214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'd be confused < 1303502656 445701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at HIGNFY having an IRC channel < 1303502656 633113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in UK yes < 1303502666 585247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it some news program or? < 1303502669 597249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1303502672 768462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is totally a news program. < 1303502674 624448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is about the news. < 1303502677 20437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has people talking about the news. < 1303502688 377507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, meta-news? < 1303502692 731485 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that settles it, then. < 1303502695 632380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Exactly. You have it exactly right. < 1303502700 221795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats all there is to say on the matter < 1303502702 871208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1303502712 201356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what you said, I googled it < 1303502782 794242 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nytt på nytt er et norsk TV-program, og er en norsk versjon av det britiske satireprogrammet Have I Got News for You, [...] < 1303502786 94171 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i thought < 1303502824 981159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow norwegian is just like a bad version of english < 1303502835 94471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Nyttpaanytt.jpg < 1303502835 616451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303502835 804092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303502835 804272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sier du det. < 1303502836 770865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :such budget < 1303502851 459298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how they only have like three scraps of newspaper there as opposed to the hundreds in HIGNFY < 1303502852 708744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUDGET < 1303502878 76245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: google translate detected "sier du det" as swedish < 1303502881 16244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it means "you finance it" < 1303502889 525324 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1303502891 135169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fabric of the program is delivered partly by members of the author quartet The rocking Seismologists ." < 1303502891 713071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that < 1303502894 535108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see none: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HIGNFY_set_empty.jpg < 1303502895 124213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the best band name ever < 1303502912 753281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto sv en sier < 1303502914 249827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They make up the letters, I think. Or, what, that looks wrong. Whatever. < 1303502916 713643 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :finance < 1303502918 683308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THE ROCKING SEISMOLOGISTS < 1303502932 849589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : `translatefromto sv en sier <-- what < 1303502939 461494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "sier" is not Swedish < 1303502940 151492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is that actually correctly translated? O_O < 1303502963 829369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check SAOL < 1303502988 406958 :elitist!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1303502996 106761 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1303503009 975053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nope, not in SAOL < 1303503030 134086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what language is it really? < 1303503091 998007 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate no en sier < 1303503093 817626 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one says < 1303503107 216138 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no en sier" => "no one says" < 1303503115 825530 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try dat again :P < 1303503120 615228 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en sier < 1303503122 245476 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :says < 1303503126 673078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "no en sier" => "no one says" < 1303503130 764409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man I was wondering wtf was going on X-D < 1303503135 464562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefrom no sier < 1303503136 334220 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303503140 301527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah why didn't I add translatefrom. < 1303503141 562340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that not me. < 1303503147 183510 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file bin/translatefrom < 1303503148 472833 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/translatefrom: ERROR: cannot open `bin/translatefrom' (No such file or directory) < 1303503156 165826 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC (IPv6 1x/32): /32 to Australia. < 1303503157 221159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for Swedish "says" would be "säger" < 1303503201 573232 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the "rocking" there has nothing to do with rocks, it means the movement < 1303503245 444888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't care. Best name. < 1303503247 514315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so it has nothing to do with music either? < 1303503253 524281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1303503254 414561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What's a better translation of the name? < 1303503279 821300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, The Rocking Seismologists is the best band name in English, maybe it's boring in Norwegian. < 1303503300 899522 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaking maybe < 1303503310 988723 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except neither is quite precise < 1303503321 877725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is the Norwegian word? < 1303503328 747268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Shivering Seismologists? < 1303503329 406867 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyngende < 1303503335 541799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1303503341 114999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like shaking in fear < 1303503341 396003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there are opinion polls coming out on the alternative vote vote here in the UK; they seem to be massively in favour of first-past-the-post, unfortunately < 1303503345 655566 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's even worse < 1303503354 645732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the FUD is in full swing < 1303503358 144726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, "rocking" as in a rocking boat would < 1303503366 134725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that's what all the journalists are saying; they aren't giving the actual results, though < 1303503369 285695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least gunga in Swedish has that meaning < 1303503397 761285 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's it, it's just rocking has the music connotation which gyngende doesn't < 1303503398 801973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1303503411 307167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so... people don't want the voting system to change? < 1303503412 180893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1303503415 904983 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck < 1303503418 219384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth is that "wtf" < 1303503431 698191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people don't have a problem with it, and it's easy to FUD < 1303503435 987855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303503437 937871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1303503446 219982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine AV being proposed in the US :P < 1303503446 407788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the real problem is that the Liberal Democrats really want STV, rather than AV < 1303503451 764258 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know < 1303503454 536628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, HIGNFY is on, and they have a Tory MP who's FUDing. < 1303503456 716963 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they should just take AV < 1303503457 506189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, AV? Audio Video? < 1303503458 171301 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : BUDGET <-- strangely it is one of norway's most popular tv shows, but of course that doesn't mean they need to waste money... < 1303503459 985940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so they aren't trying too hard to push it < 1303503461 165839 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and campaign hard for it < 1303503464 436897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BUT THEY HAVE A TWITTER HASH MARK < 1303503464 626359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're watching it too? < 1303503467 126070 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they don't get AV they won't get STV < 1303503468 485038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: everybody hates the lib dems < 1303503471 444693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not watching it deliberately, but someone else in the room is < 1303503472 344731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they should probably just shut up < 1303503473 814532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not that bad < 1303503480 817730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HIGNFY is awesome. < 1303503492 382981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, alt vote < 1303503492 662597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I suspect they're going on the basis that if AV passes, they'll never be able to persuade anyone to change the voting system /again/ < 1303503493 52789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303503499 492478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's IRV < 1303503502 921895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what would STV be? < 1303503504 771738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WHAT? < 1303503508 461342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: instant-runoff < 1303503509 721917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := AV < 1303503509 909502 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: single transferable < 1303503514 101113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AV is a special case of STV where you only elect one person < 1303503518 941134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303503519 240711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and the "fabric" is a rather bad translation of "stoff" in this case < 1303503525 10164 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but if it doesn't pass, how are they going to get to STV if people rejected AV? < 1303503525 710446 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, she's saying "with AV there'll be a coalition EVERY SINGLE TIME!" < 1303503528 349105 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :incremental change... < 1303503530 499485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fabric? < 1303503533 999521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how that makes no sense at all. < 1303503542 475757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they should clearly switch to my totally-untested Recursive Condorcet method < 1303503551 978185 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive condorcet? < 1303503554 703030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes. < 1303503564 957144 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :describe moar so I may steal the idea and write a paper < 1303503569 576369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh. I thought you were a fan of stochastic? < 1303503576 945530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am, but that has even less of a chance ;D < 1303503577 655679 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/a,20076/ "... it is also fine to masturbate to the mentally challengeda reversal of previous guidelines and an affirmation that all persons may provide erotic inspiration, regardless of cognitive capacity." < 1303503582 464780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1303503582 652335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and then she went for "3 countries use AV, the rest use FPTP and get along fine." < 1303503587 64807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WHAT < 1303503590 555275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much bullshit. < 1303503598 462190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Condorcet is basically mathematically perfect apart from the fact that it sometimes fails to give a result. < 1303503606 365366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereupon Hislop responded "Most of the world is starving, that's a pretty good argument for not eating." < 1303503611 72683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, here's the SILLY ALGORITHM: < 1303503634 241640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Run any Condorcet method. If it gives a result, we're done. Otherwise, < 1303503643 419883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean "the Condorcet method" < 1303503646 679948 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: define "any" Condorcet method < 1303503653 169030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only the one if you fail when it doesn't give a result < 1303503658 89545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right < 1303503658 369400 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1303503664 987588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the only difference between Condorcet-based methods is the tiebreak rules < 1303503665 827871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1303503671 332586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Run any Condorcet method. If it gives a result, we're done. Otherwise, < 1303503677 157138 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your quote above < 1303503682 626238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rank every (ranking,candidate) pair by the sum of all their rankings. < 1303503684 666121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1303503685 435761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort every < 1303503698 835393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, a candidate sorts higher than another if the sum of all the rankings given to them is greater than the other's. < 1303503710 313783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick the last element of the resulting list, i.e. the least popular candidate by that criterion. < 1303503714 549264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :better is "material" < 1303503718 600652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say they are called "rubbish". < 1303503731 252222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there might not be one, though < 1303503735 962254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace every pair (ranking,rubbish) with (ranking,almostrubbish), where almostrubbish is the second-last element of that list. < 1303503741 51249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean there could be multiple, or what? < 1303503743 249060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then recurse. < 1303503746 160778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting list almost certainly won't be unique, and may well not even be well-founded < 1303503752 749868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? < 1303503760 389104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're doing that stupid thing again < 1303503765 651565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you assume I mean the result of the Condorcet process somehow < 1303503770 429943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm just talking about the raw rankings given in the input < 1303503778 248426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303503779 288230 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dun get it < 1303503782 217722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: X_X < 1303503785 397449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is not to get. < 1303503789 269659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I mark candidates 1, 3, 5, 7, my vote has more of an influence than if I mark them 1, 2, 3, 4? < 1303503793 586842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this system < 1303503802 445818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if there are three persons being voted for and everyone get exactly 1/3rd of the votes say? < 1303503807 475725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What? < 1303503813 685206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, OK, yes, flatten everything before doing it. < 1303503814 844904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're adding together rankings, right? < 1303503816 92829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By flatten I mean linearise. < 1303503828 334255 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please write out a formal description of the algorithm < 1303503838 252502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I did. < 1303503844 32786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: Run any Condorcet method. If it gives a result, we're done. Otherwise, < 1303503845 529272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Rank every (ranking,candidate) pair by the sum of all their rankings. < 1303503845 717025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Erm. < 1303503845 717207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sort every < 1303503845 717316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : As in, a candidate sorts higher than another if the sum of all the rankings given to them is greater than the other's. < 1303503846 132695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pick the last element of the resulting list, i.e. the least popular candidate by that criterion. < 1303503848 991804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Say they are called "rubbish". < 1303503850 891395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Replace every pair (ranking,rubbish) with (ranking,almostrubbish), where almostrubbish is the second-last element of that list. < 1303503852 171808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a formal < 1303503853 649443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :one < 1303503854 250876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then repeat the algorithm < 1303503863 629245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes it is, it's just not pseudocode < 1303503864 680161 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't instant-runoff voting Condorcett-compatible plus fairly practical? < 1303503869 350646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1303503871 449796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: One t. < 1303503874 949613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no. < 1303503877 918893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRV is not Condorcet. < 1303503885 454036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still: elliott, what if there are three persons being voted for and everyone get exactly 1/3rd of the votes say? < 1303503917 775517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then the result of the algorithm is undefined because that never fucking happens. < 1303503924 482934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more reasonable objection is that two people get only one vote each or whatever. < 1303503937 164223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you just need to pick one to reassign arbitrarily, it doesn't really matter at all. < 1303503942 182206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Argh, my description is wrong. < 1303503943 305067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wait. < 1303503947 913704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Run the Condorcet method. < 1303503960 912032 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1303503964 212437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. So it doesn't always give results < 1303503966 311760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it fails, then find the least-liked candidate X (where liked is determined by summing with the orders of the rankings, like I explained). < 1303503967 501686 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now failed to produce a result < 1303503979 970514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then, < 1303503981 610598 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean "summing with the orders of the rankings" < 1303503984 615190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1303503988 79605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EXPLAINED THAT PERFECTLY LAST TIME < 1303503993 751118 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you didn't < 1303504003 769369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVEN A CANDIDATE C, CONSIDER ALL VOTES (R,C) < 1303504006 516664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUM ALL THE RS OF THESE VOTES < 1303504010 696694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN SORT ALL CANDIDATES BY THAT SUM < 1303504014 877630 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1303504019 137879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK. < 1303504024 108046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Now, consider every ballot that has a vote for X. < 1303504042 859293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then look at their preference one higher. < 1303504049 994690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it is their top vote, consider their second instead. TOTAL HACK LOL) < 1303504070 59810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Say the one higher preference is (RA,Y) and the preference for X is (RB,X). < 1303504081 460950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reassign the (RB,X) pair to be (RA,X) (yes, causing a duplicate ranking). < 1303504087 63748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once this is done for all candidates that voted for X, re-run the algorithm. < 1303504093 650776 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1303504094 950160 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :'When one of the first two interpretations is used, the method can be restated as: "Disregard the weakest pairwise defeat until one candidate is unbeaten."' <-- this is minimax, but I thought it was instant-runoff ... now I'm not sure what the distinction is, but this is what I was thinking of. < 1303504115 408426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Apart from the hack that I noted, it's a pretty good algorithm :P < 1303504135 526902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It basically says "if Condorcet doesn't give a result, reassign all votes for the least-liked candidate". < 1303504162 64444 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, instant-runoff is just straight-up voting amongst the #1s, then remove the worst #1 and repeat. < 1303504167 364140 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's totes different, loller. < 1303504449 199511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you can do a completely fair system easily if you don't care about parties or the geographical location of the voters. Just make the whole country one riding. Then tally the votes. Sort candidates by number of votes. Give the most favoured person a place in the parliament and remove him/her from the list. Repeat until the parliament is full. < 1303504486 156393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same work for parties if you don't consider individual candidates < 1303504489 382091 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, that's not fair < 1303504495 145543 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: strategic voting abounds < 1303504530 565718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh? If there are no parties it works fine, no? < 1303504551 240728 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1303504554 352370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, why < 1303504568 849921 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there is a candidate who I think will be on the edge of getting in < 1303504577 858335 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :who I don't like < 1303504583 89720 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favored candidate is nearly certain to win < 1303504586 347238 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do I vote for? < 1303504609 785298 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I vote for my preferred candidate or try to keep the other guy out of the legislative body? < 1303504610 167655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, your favorite candidate surely? If there are just those two that you gave < 1303504625 844008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how would you do the latter < 1303504635 342901 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@206.53.28.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303504644 182237 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by voting someone else to lower the ranking of the guy I hate < 1303504695 998335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, there is a large risk that won't work though < 1303504736 775849 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303504748 13458 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so? I lose nothing by doing it < 1303504763 653416 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :any voting system where my optimal move is not to vote for my preferred candidate is broken < 1303504766 259443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you would if enough people think like you < 1303504787 325794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what if nearly everyone who favours that candidate you favored do the same < 1303504797 60286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : any voting system where my optimal move is not to vote for my preferred candidate is broken < 1303504800 220002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ANY VOTING SYSTEM < 1303504803 392292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes I see the issue < 1303504804 648786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from stochastic. < 1303504816 797517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from Condorcet, which breaks that as soon as you introduce tiebreakers :P < 1303504824 416958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually straight up "who get the most votes" work if you are electing a single person < 1303504827 736225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1303504830 286335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1303504842 341207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is so egregiously wrong that I can't even think of anything to say. < 1303504848 684482 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Some voting systems are less broken than others < 1303504862 703532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Four votes good, two votes bad. < 1303504867 342860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, so what about presidential elections, what is a fair voting system there? < 1303504879 356563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm sorry, but if you'll excuse me, I am busy gawping. < 1303504884 926561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an intensive process. < 1303504886 327762 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see Arrow's Theorem < 1303505151 370667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303505517 476705 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1303505615 597729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can mmap be used to align allocations to four bytes? < 1303505713 288846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anonymous mapping? < 1303505717 328941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1303505724 889134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it will be aligned to a page in memory < 1303505731 793572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Which is annoying, because these allocations will be small. < 1303505733 567203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that is guaranteed < 1303505738 466998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gigantic heap allocation with copying GC it is. < 1303505764 814500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mark-and-don't-sweep" Best GC style ever. < 1303505785 510080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, building a freelist? < 1303505795 341872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't glibc malloc() align to 8 bytes? < 1303505800 288098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mark and don't sweep garbage collector, like the mark-and-sweep, maintains a bit with each object to record whether it is white or black; the gray set is either maintained as a separate list (such as the process stack) or using another bit. There are two key differences here. First, black and white mean different things than they do in the mark and sweep collector. In a "mark and don't sweep" system, all reachable objects are always black. An o < 1303505800 475800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bject is marked black at the time it is allocated, and it will stay black even if it becomes unreachable. A white object is unused memory and may be allocated. Second, the interpretation of the black/white bit can change. Initially, the black/white bit may have the sense of (0=white, 1=black). If an allocation operation ever fails to find any available (white) memory, that means all objects are marked used (black). The sense of the black/white bi < 1303505800 984612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t is then inverted (for example, 0=black, 1=white). Everything becomes white. This momentarily breaks the invariant that reachable objects are black, but a full marking phase follows immediately, to mark them black again. Once this is done, all unreachable memory is white. No "sweep" phase is necessary. < 1303505804 131162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it has a few bytes of overhead < 1303505804 662871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, doesn't glibc malloc() align to 8 bytes? < 1303505806 924555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gonna rely on that. < 1303505810 928505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the bottom three bits to be zero. < 1303505816 280163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1303505818 930148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need to align to eight, actually. < 1303505826 849879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, posix_memalign, < 1303505895 553315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gross < 1303505906 133999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maintaining my own heap == ten times the fun. < 1303505921 1774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is memalign so gross? < 1303505934 636002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern POSIX gross. < 1303505939 499483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's in the fucking "ADVANCED REALTIME" section. < 1303505947 270335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The posix_memalign() function is part of the Advisory Information option and need not be provided on all implementations." < 1303506054 239407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Such a tangled web. It is a web full of flaming irons and mixed metaphors." < 1303506058 688925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, valloc, it has the most complicated description in the man page of what defines make the prototype visible < 1303506080 246866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : _BSD_SOURCE || < 1303506080 686888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (_XOPEN_SOURCE >= 500 || < 1303506080 874496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : _XOPEN_SOURCE && _XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED) && < 1303506080 874711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : !(_POSIX_C_SOURCE >= 200112L || _XOPEN_SOURCE >= 600) < 1303506084 297165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact < 1303506178 278697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is deprecated) < 1303506581 123200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum tag { < 1303506581 402999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T_PAIR = 1 << 0, < 1303506581 590483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T_SYMBOL = 1 << 1, < 1303506581 590589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : T_INTEGER = 1 < 2 < 1303506581 590651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1303506587 844005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the mistake that gave me a "duplicate case" error < 1303506626 171596 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm nice going there < 1303506631 720774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm clever. < 1303506633 984218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very clever. < 1303506641 790886 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than clever < 1303506660 484839 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I've needed aligned memory I've done it with mmap of double then munmap twice :P < 1303506712 126475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wat X-D < 1303506715 675940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How does that even make any sense. < 1303506720 747991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, so writing another lisp? < 1303506727 700714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just porting Zepto from Python to C. < 1303506735 170249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, zepto is? < 1303506736 859519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a stupidly simple language, so this will not be difficult. < 1303506739 589104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The BEST LISP. < 1303506743 948987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303506747 868669 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you mmap (size you need + alignment) you're guaranteed to have the aligned area within the allocated space. < 1303506764 557404 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since every situation I've ended up needing this has involved alignment to the size I need, I just allocate double. < 1303506781 905717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why munmap at all? < 1303506786 738765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not malloc < 1303506815 842957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, allocate double... Hmm. < 1303506818 112889 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :................. munmap can unmap a partial range, free can't ................ also wtf, malloc() for huge spaces = retarded. < 1303506823 765095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does that even make sense though??? < 1303506828 281580 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes? < 1303506828 701295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise you could violate page-alignment like that. < 1303506839 540942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to Defeat the Point. < 1303506846 457748 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never use it to violate page alignment, size-I-need is always a power of 2. < 1303506848 449862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway, mmap will only allocate on a previously unused page < 1303506854 705102 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... so? < 1303506864 209077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe I am misunderstanding page alignment. < 1303506866 429223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so if your allocation is less than a page large it is rather wasteful < 1303506871 298316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't that be stupidly fragmented for shitloads of small allocations? < 1303506888 296786 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I use when I need /HUGE/ spaces. < 1303506891 776141 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. GC pools :P < 1303506893 526140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would be absurdly stupid for your case < 1303506930 333516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right :P < 1303506957 870105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yay, I think I can do a copying GC without going over every object twice, but it involves maintaining a huge stack :P < 1303506961 861818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will overflow C's. < 1303506962 810587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laame. < 1303507005 308823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why would you ever need alignment when doing huge stuff that doesn't start at a page boundary? < 1303507012 955631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that starts at something larger than a page boundary < 1303507075 730248 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because I want the beginning to have all the lower bits be zero. < 1303507079 649711 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can always get to the beginning with a mask. < 1303507089 698914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303507093 621399 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This == supafast GC pools. < 1303507107 477492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not as supafast as the Zepto Silly Allocation SystemXXX < 1303507109 765789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZSAS < 1303507114 786750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make it ZEST somehow. < 1303507121 606212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zepto Egregiously Silly Tallocationsystem. < 1303507122 379004 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how zilly < 1303507144 755820 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto zeriouzly zilly zallocationzyztem < 1303507156 63153 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-native-English-speaker-professors are considering renaming the lab I'm in from SSS (Secure Software Systems (???)) to The CLAP (Compilers and Languages At Purdue) < 1303507188 588767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303507222 487207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler-Understanding Native Teleologists < 1303507297 124650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why < 1303507310 579502 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because we have nothing whatsoever to do with security. < 1303507312 199789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the current name is creeper. < 1303507317 89357 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The expansion is a much better name :P < 1303507329 847960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALP < 1303507331 932052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Call it the CALAP in protest. < 1303507332 348535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, then why specifically non-native speakers? < 1303507334 447958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: X-D < 1303507337 267229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secure CALP. < 1303507341 139994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCALP. < 1303507343 96847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1303507343 867675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonorrhea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1303507344 55380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonorrhea (also colloquially known as the clap) is a common sexually transmitted infection caused by the bacterium Neisseria gonorrhoeae. ... < 1303507344 839043 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the university here in town has the english name Norwegian University of Science and Technology. apparently there was a hasty reordering involved. < 1303507348 746271 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By not knowing the issue, you're proving my point about non-native speakers :P < 1303507358 936620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Might that be an Americanism :P < 1303507360 746557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to google < 1303507361 238598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know, you can "clap your hands" < 1303507366 764694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: THE Clap. < 1303507367 886700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh? I thought it was all Englishes. < 1303507368 74075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not CLAP. < 1303507369 284470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that was what I thought of < 1303507370 217135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CLAP. < 1303507374 713813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said "The CLAP". < 1303507380 456492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1303507394 922415 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the computer nvg club had nuts.edu registered for a while) < 1303507397 993044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I've never heard about it, but I don't really talk about gonorrhea :P < 1303507424 727345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's my secret shame. < 1303507448 279075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1303507639 720165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what sucks? Hash tables. < 1303507652 781354 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303507653 169958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GOING TO USE LINKED LISTS INSTEAD < 1303507712 54818 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no use a sorted array, then you can use binary search < 1303507717 954325 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I AM SORRY ARE HASH TABLES NOT THE BEST OF THE MUNDANE FETCH MODI < 1303507732 123667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try an self-balancing binary tree? < 1303507740 659606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, an AVL tree is dead-easy to implement < 1303507763 910007 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :death by AVL tree < 1303507779 781643 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303507785 726799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Too many algorithms. < 1303507788 328187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINKED LISTS ARE THE BEST. < 1303507791 207840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, but that's not a particularly interesting fetch modus. < 1303507844 191462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :linky lists of doom < 1303507852 912292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? You mean, too many variants to choose from? < 1303507860 112135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TOO MANY CODES. < 1303507864 201293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go for AVL tree, it is a good general purpose one < 1303507865 511744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL OF THEM < 1303507874 530317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, I have done an AVL tree in C in half an hour... < 1303507878 520413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALF AN HOUR < 1303507880 501957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINKED LIST??? < 1303507882 200448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREE MINUTES < 1303507889 269236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF THAT < 1303507893 897682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1303507894 996388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. All the codes are required for an AVL tree. < 1303507911 8564 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL. THE. CODES. < 1303507919 486402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway want my AVL tree implementation? It just does the basics, leave allocation and so on to the application < 1303507971 641730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1303507973 151964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINKED < 1303507973 841551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIST < 1303507975 375561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it has tiny overhead thus. you define a struct that starts with the tree node header struct. < 1303507979 310854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: All of them. < 1303507984 651455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for what? < 1303507991 59263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1303508007 679301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you using it for < 1303508013 686198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hash table. < 1303508020 287782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH I REFUSE TO IMPLEMENT WITH A HASH TABLE < 1303508033 153398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Zepto, performance is irrelevant, all that matters is some sort of vaguely-defined sense of aesthetics based around being slow. < 1303508051 725146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you... implement a hash table with a linked list? < 1303508052 944152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1303508063 982131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1303508151 393064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tsumeshogi-classic.svg I invented a ASCII notation for tsumeshogi that one on Wikipedia would use the notation: 3H.3hzh1.4C1.1L < 1303508156 755590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? < 1303508211 661325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B=foot soldier, D=fragrance chariot, F=honor horse, H=silver general, J=gold general, L=angle mover, N=flying chariot, Z=king; use next letter of alphabet for promotion) < 1303508214 871028 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303508231 638439 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1303508234 634007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops I made a mistake. It should be: 3H.3hzh1.4C1.1M < 1303508242 758817 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone ghost elliott for me < 1303508245 570965 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't type its password < 1303508251 347468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1303508254 248302 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1303508255 747465 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.255.193 NICK :elliott < 1303508259 981454 :elliott!~elliott@91.104.255.193 QUIT :Changing host < 1303508260 169132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303508263 559132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : can someone ghost elliott for me < 1303508263 746843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i can't type its password < 1303508268 286579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, issue: < 1303508274 175398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would know your password except you < 1303508277 115740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott has quit (Disconnected by services) < 1303508278 855094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody, evidently < 1303508293 285892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't you do it? < 1303508296 324386 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you your normal account without password? < 1303508306 522575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how could I? I can't type my password. < 1303508312 62024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, missing a verb? < 1303508318 721770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ubuntu automatically logs in by default. also, you accidentally a verb. < 1303508319 212410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, copy and paste < 1303508327 518979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from where? < 1303508332 141046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not so insecure as to store my password on disk < 1303508371 399829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: Ubuntu automatically logs in by default. also, you accidentally a verb. i'm not so insecure as to store my password on disk < 1303508375 696913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry? < 1303508390 555567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your insult is unacceptable < 1303508401 837663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody else has this computer apart from me! < 1303508406 663943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What opinion about this kind of tsumeshogi notation? Is there anything you think wrong? < 1303508434 821996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what < 1303508437 667976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-elliott- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Ubuntu <-- look in ~/.xchat/_servlist.conf or some such file for it. ls ~/.xchat*/*serv* should find it anyway < 1303508457 300746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly, i don't use my account password for irc < 1303508461 87993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be insecure < 1303508485 357064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who said you did < 1303508489 806811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ [elliott] is logged in as elliott < 1303508504 335520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, my client does that automatically. < 1303508517 804939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that is where it stores the password < 1303508526 203572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is the relevant password for ghosting < 1303508536 392563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we have already gone over, someone else ghosted it, not me. < 1303508537 661851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being silly. < 1303508539 670152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you meant the system password < 1303508553 701391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shouldn't you urgently change the password then < 1303508586 238829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because someone was kind? < 1303508602 376777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh man, interior pointers -- the best kind?? < 1303508617 355618 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm not so insecure as to store my password on disk < 1303508623 985008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a better man than I. < 1303508624 544953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, iirc you can ghost as long as you are logged in to the account. Without using the password I mean < 1303508656 22830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But elliott_ isn't linked. < 1303508661 171538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hrrm okay < 1303508667 721185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but actually you don't need that < 1303508669 767293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That was total lies, I use my account password for IRC and everything else too. I'm just trolling Vorpal and it seems to be working brilliantly ;D < 1303508684 463546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't notice I used an exclamation mark, proving that I had an on-screen keyboard up. < 1303508686 939640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if your client does /ns accountname password < 1303508697 258469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are a slightly worse man than I. < 1303508708 87616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I didn't consider that. *shrug* < 1303508721 437075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I use the server password "fg9axm6 :elliott". < 1303508738 100304 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1303508772 352279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not going to test :P < 1303508805 140542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust you. < 1303508816 988581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the rest of the channel? < 1303508825 47556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all nice people here. < 1303508835 149196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for sshc, but he is GONE FOREVER. < 1303508860 34464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the logs are public < 1303508874 103381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows of them but us? < 1303508890 621944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I know you are not idiotic enough to post your true password < 1303508983 312730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor appears NONPLUSSED about INTERIOR POINTERS. < 1303509079 105335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://software-lab.de/doc64/structures I love how unreadable this is. < 1303509106 663334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see how it's done. Maybe. < 1303509139 680402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still an interior pointer though FFFUUUUU < 1303509141 539754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how they handle it. < 1303509256 750413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://software-lab.de/doc64/structures I love how unreadable this is. <-- err, what is it for? < 1303509264 872703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal structures of PicoLisp that I am copying BUT BETTER. < 1303509313 858051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1303509383 608865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem being that NIL has to point to (NIL . NIL), so I have no idea how I can avoid interior pointers. < 1303509478 392697 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interior pointers make the garbage collector sad. < 1303509481 92720 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, very sad. < 1303509516 567304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT PICOLISP DOES IT < 1303509580 548036 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comes at a cost, of course. < 1303509581 381417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, why does NIL point to (NIL . NIL)? < 1303509608 260314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because (CAR NIL) => NIL and (CDR NIL) => NIL. < 1303509623 775861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen in every Lisp apart from Scheme, which does not have NIL. < 1303509673 33087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303509689 312215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could special case car and cdr code instead? < 1303509697 751860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew < 1303509724 795435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or you could special case GC handling of NIL < 1303509749 676439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1303509752 466972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that help < 1303509767 65405 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303509776 164471 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1303509779 724006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net NICK :pikhq < 1303510488 975946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1303510494 945529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why wouldn't it? < 1303511046 349046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep. < 1303511048 862896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1303511545 894762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why would it? < 1303511734 683376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're the dum8est omniscient person I ever met." < 1303511735 905929 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1303511779 589422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well? :-P < 1303511941 589249 :TeruFSX2!~quassel@97-127-218-140.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303512145 78942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1303512201 77300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you could put NIL in a special non-GCed place. Every reference of nil pointing to it < 1303512214 121080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then any references to it will point to it < 1303512226 649866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no need to track interior pointers inside this nil object < 1303512233 109373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the issue? < 1303512257 467215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What do the interior pointers have to do with NIL? < 1303512277 265621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : The problem being that NIL has to point to (NIL . NIL), so I have no idea how I can avoid interior pointers. < 1303512279 195603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that? < 1303512281 115389 :TeruFSX2!~quassel@97-127-218-140.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303512291 984263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because NIL also has to be a symbol, and symbols have names, and so the string "N I < 1303512298 464657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"N I L" must be in there somewhere. < 1303512302 167475 :TeruFSX2!~quassel@97-127-218-140.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303512303 392351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aha < 1303512309 142919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't use an atom table? < 1303512323 345006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1303512327 791214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1303512332 487106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has nothing to do with this. < 1303512407 349427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm whatever < 1303512443 180871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303512835 876731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or does an atom table (Erlang terminology...) somehow prevent storing symbol names in symbols?? < 1303512857 724218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303512871 819887 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :a naive implementation of war is O(2^N) worst case - right? < 1303512885 573857 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to make sure my analyses skills are not going bad  < 1303512895 507054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(death) < 1303512900 80137 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :-| < 1303512913 162645 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: war, as in the card game < 1303512921 49885 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303513013 182889 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: am I wrong? < 1303513018 771502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1303513025 497106 :TeruFSX2!~quassel@97-127-218-140.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303513032 927909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being surprised when you get punned is forbidden here :D < 1303513045 179882 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smacks elliott  < 1303513049 658552 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303513053 157656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, if oerjan was here... < 1303513061 59812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Phil Sophie" -- what Google Translate thinks the German word "Philsophie" is in English < 1303513077 551795 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1303513436 583969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303513549 904446 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders at byuu's seeming adoration for including far too many headers... < 1303513583 510147 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points pikhq to https://code.google.com/p/include-what-you-use/ < 1303513649 186100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In essence, he makes a per-module header file which includes every single thing that anything *in the module* uses, and then each compilation unit includes that. < 1303513740 998026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: looks C++-specific < 1303513749 929115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least biased, because it just talks about .cc files, no .c < 1303513758 956301 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably C and C++. < 1303513768 885478 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's using clang, after all. < 1303513771 752781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no such thing, they are completely different languages. < 1303513780 804638 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I *know that*. < 1303513787 74302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But clang handles both C and C++. < 1303513791 563158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since such a program has to do semantic language (are any of these objects or structures used in the including file?), < 1303513795 521206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the C and C++ logic must be separate < 1303513798 442990 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hence a tool using it for lexical analysis *probably* handles both. < 1303513809 101813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexical analysis isn't the hard part, though :) < 1303513814 831391 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, of course, not necessarily) < 1303513839 528677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "C and C++" I suspect it means "the subset of C code that has the same semantics when used as C++ code" < 1303513843 8892 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, we only run this on C++ code, not C or Objective C." < 1303513846 400300 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand corrected. < 1303513866 168034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that from? < 1303513873 560731 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.google.com/p/include-what-you-use/wiki/InstructionsForUsers < 1303513886 78462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1303513904 713556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WARNING: include-what-you-use only analyzes .cc (or .cpp) files built by make" < 1303513908 883106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet they just tested it on one C file < 1303513914 702320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided that counts as support < 1303513925 91446 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, they never say they support c. < 1303513931 491467 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cc is a C++ extension. < 1303513940 140298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A tool for use with clang to analyze #includes in C and C++ source files" < 1303513945 29449 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this almost certainly would give up on bsnes's source code... < 1303513946 739846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the single place they claim it supports C < 1303513948 20715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the tagline < 1303513949 872497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1303513998 949884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES ONE GC WITH INTERNAL POINTERS EVER < 1303514012 443961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. As it is, I could change a single header and cause a rebuild of the entire tree. < 1303514029 722916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: let's be fair, that applies to every C++ program :) < 1303514032 542351 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A large amount of the rebuilding would be unnecessary. < 1303514058 860112 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, true, C++ definitely makes it such that that's a common case. < 1303514100 326371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And byuu doesn't do himself any favors by NIH'ing the STL. < 1303514147 584876 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable: looks C++-specific ---> patch it < 1303514149 663703 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1303514155 11319 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1303514169 860171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I neither have endless free time or the patience to deal with maintainers :) < 1303514182 598669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I do have endless free time, but it's taken up by all the actually interesting[one] code I'm writing. < 1303514184 208497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[one] debatable < 1303514204 294820 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what kind of code? < 1303514209 34334 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :* interesting code < 1303514214 107380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZEPTO < 1303514226 160805 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1303514226 724049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its progress is impeded by the fact that it's written in C and I can't produce asterisks. < 1303514233 579493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Bargain basement Lisp. < 1303514235 426047 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't even kidding: bsnes is in C++ and never uses the STL. < 1303514260 453687 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : HOW DOES ONE GC WITH INTERNAL POINTERS EVER // I know, right? < 1303514270 465584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No but seriously how do people do it. < 1303514272 552519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ME. < 1303514290 340883 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, couldn't tell ya', I honestly don't know myself. < 1303514296 131665 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slowly" :P < 1303514312 519386 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq any thoughts on my question re war: a naive implementation of playing through the game is O(N^2) ? < 1303514317 449979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT MY ARCHITECTURE DEMANDS IT. < 1303514333 17153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK technically it doesn't demand an interior pointer, just a pointer to something that has a pointer tacked on one before it. < 1303514340 996082 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't remember (or care :P ) how that card (?) game works. < 1303514343 914675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is kind of the same thing except that the interior pointer is aligned, and the tacked-on one isn't. < 1303514388 680337 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can only guess that they don't allocate over card boundaries, and to figure out the start of an object they go to the start of a card and follow a linked list to the correct object. < 1303514396 51494 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't care how the card game works per se. I just want to make sure my skills are not going insane ;-| < 1303514402 641006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even using cards bro ;D < 1303514422 913472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the Zepto Bargain Basement Copying Collector And Heap Expander, made by Fly By Wire industries. < 1303514424 288910 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then s/card/page/ or s/card/pool/ or s/card/whatever-your-allocation-block-thingy-is/ < 1303514440 867464 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just use GGGGC >: ) < 1303514443 95681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But my pool is a jumble of bytes, I have no idea how I could go over it like that :P < 1303514456 129296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GGGGC isn't Bargain Basement and it can't align my allocations to eight bytes. Can it? < 1303514459 68804 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well then to support interior pointers you PROBABLY need a better pool. < 1303514470 364643 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It could be adapted to. < 1303514472 495053 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The card "game" is essentially an algorithm performed upon two piles of cards. < 1303514475 874614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1303514480 522273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I traverse, I know the type. < 1303514482 174257 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In fact, it does on 64-bit platforms. < 1303514486 662254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I know when something is a symbol. < 1303514495 222735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I know when something has an object pointer before it. < 1303514497 922649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1303514501 519156 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There is literally no nondeterminism in it outside of the initial shuffle. < 1303514505 74699 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah. many (most?) game theorists will say it is not a game because there is no choice < 1303514509 486765 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the players < 1303514509 914270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My design is so shitty. I love it. < 1303514514 948918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE IT. < 1303514541 22900 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/War_(card_game) < 1303514554 837654 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to read on the grounds that no. < 1303514582 258805 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any thoughts on the complexity ? < 1303514595 5051 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I could buy O(n^2) worst-case. < 1303514628 741319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweet, if I offer type-tag casting, my whole GC and everything breaks :D < 1303514632 257469 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking about how to formally prove it < 1303514673 557322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the order the winning cards are placed is fixed it is possible to create an infinite loop wherein neither side will win and the game will not end." < 1303514694 575461 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking that might be possible. < 1303514697 65226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems worst-case is _|_ < 1303514705 629858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What, the breakingness? :P < 1303514713 915544 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: o.O; lets say random placement < 1303514717 543322 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, never-ending war (what is it good for?) < 1303514723 774022 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: see 1984 < 1303514725 668502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: The RNG is your enemy. Worst case is O(inf). < 1303514727 392492 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: "Worst case" + "random placement" = you're talkin' bullshit. < 1303514740 51701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uh huh!... absolutely INFINITE AMOUNTS OF NOTHING < 1303514742 151922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAY IT AGAIN < 1303514749 588801 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I didn't even think about that < 1303514752 576703 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps self < 1303514795 366769 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine, based on nothing whatsoever, that the average case is something around O(nlogn), but it could be as high as O(n^2) < 1303514817 304602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric: where the experts come to bullshit. < 1303514829 906942 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: strictly speaking I arrived at the question seeing if I could "solve" the game without going through the complete game (given omniscience over the cards) < 1303514847 667067 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that is possible at all < 1303514857 682280 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: any pointers to start thinking about it? < 1303514907 228866 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to run :-\ < 1303514985 999836 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitter would be a lolsy place for submissions to a programming golf tournament :P < 1303515016 817098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Twitter: So faggy?????? < 1303515018 377541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPERTS SAY MAYBE < 1303515035 305700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's pretty terrible :P < 1303515041 415439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION immediately tracks down and follows Gregor. < 1303515044 164690 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, I HAD to register to spam the Lawson video wall! < 1303515054 824757 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD LUCK FINDING ME < 1303515064 773184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/CaptainHats < 1303515065 586269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This you? < 1303515068 508071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THIS MIGHT BE YOU < 1303515069 72564 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1303515074 570917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sort of said it in-channel yesterday. < 1303515081 221451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I did? < 1303515083 691365 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shfoot :P < 1303515088 896712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although presumably you were posting or planning to post on another account, since you found it necessary to give your username. < 1303515105 987009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be ridiculous if you were already posting it as CaptainHats, which would be a bad idea because that's a terrible username. < 1303515127 867332 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM AWESOME USERNAME < 1303515128 257276 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has insufficient G's. < 1303515139 378207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoHats < 1303515159 714060 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my point is I was asking how to tweet a "challenge" with an added "tweet your responses back to me", but in very few characters :P < 1303515184 220796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh... you don't :P < 1303515189 922338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, golf this: ..." < 1303515199 881392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who doesn't realise to reply to you is too stupid to golf :P < 1303515226 78959 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) The thing is, this goes up on the Lawson video wall, not straight into my hordes of non-followers, B) not golfing < 1303515245 503490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A) OK, so like I said, not delivering it through blah :P < 1303515249 689738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B) Well it should be golfing? < 1303515278 94275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/lawsonwall/followers ;; everyone Gregor knows < 1303515292 3317 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-followers? You mean that you've got it set up so that you talk to everyone who *doesn't* follow you? < 1303515295 636663 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win. < 1303515311 891927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303515317 171011 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : (A) OK, so like I said, not delivering it through blah :P // this ... this is not a sentence. < 1303515318 720946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, Gregor amasses the largest number of followers EVAR < 1303515337 409461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your face isn't either but I don't quote it, append the comment characters used in all the worst languages, and snark at it. < 1303515351 538150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's face // Haha, what is this, answer: it is shit < 1303515353 723293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1303515374 936485 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to reply to your (A) < 1303515376 626232 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't. < 1303515379 936297 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have no idea what it says. < 1303515389 692351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't reply, that means I'm right. < 1303515391 324947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANY QUESTIONS < 1303515406 553261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "OK, so like I said, not delivering it through [at]CaptainHats but actually not Twitter at all so aiuhfgjlksdtjhgfdsknfgjdksbvckjcd bvjcknxvb dszjiznvbckxoijfhgziyvws9 x,.v/" < 1303515410 63414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that help < 1303515413 233563 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1303515423 741372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I hit FireFly by mistake there while I was mashing my keys. < 1303515439 680237 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I deliver it via twitter to the lawson wall (it shows things tagged properly), people respond to me via twitter. < 1303515450 115228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fghfgkjgjgh < 1303515499 471595 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Q < 1303515529 62717 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone knows the only valid comment sequence is LALAlALALalaTHISIsACOMment{}--///*\n*/##{--}BANGSPLAT < 1303515540 651889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case-sensitive, of course. < 1303515545 241622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I mark all my comments. < 1303515549 680792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i++; LALAlALALalaTHISIsACOMment{}--///*\n*/##{--}BANGSPLAT increment i by one < 1303515569 269963 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1303515588 999576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Terminated by TALPSGNAB}--{##/*\n*///--}{tnemMOCAsISIHTalaLALAlALAL, right? < 1303515605 587905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the \n THERE is a literal newline. < 1303515618 914865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, no, no. < 1303515635 63267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to remove the newline to get the comment variant that doesn't go to the end of the line. < 1303515652 761922 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But otherwise, you've got the idea. < 1303515900 150165 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303516254 199248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The issue presented in this case is whether a resolution banning all 'First Amendment activities' at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) violates the First Amendment." < 1303516270 696774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote from a real Supreme Court case. < 1303516309 814760 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-217-170.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For obvious reasons, the court unanimously found that banning all 'First Amendment activities' was a violation of said amendment. < 1303516533 635695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol