< 1303344378 24862 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://csv.example.org:7070/1q_3844/18816_019915 < 1303344506 971627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders shooting up on flu vaccine for the comedic effect. < 1303344519 49268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT < 1303344536 189763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you sure? < 1303344548 404839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303344585 787344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is Not A Good Idea. < 1303344611 313914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1303344612 758242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the BEST idea. < 1303344640 884461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If is not good idea, then don't do (unless you happen to like bad ideas, that is). < 1303345112 724801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose one -- choose one, or choose another one. If you don't, you may choose to choose another choose. < 1303345423 511623 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1303345987 866219 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a Magic: the Gathering card: All non-legendary permanents have Cumulative Upkeep-double your life total. At the beginning of each player's first main phase, if that player's life total exceeds one million, that player loses the game. < 1303346045 837062 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This text is on a Legendary card, which means you cannot sacrifice it to itself) < 1303346254 623914 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/mozilla/narcissus/pull/31 <-- has everyone observed my greatest piece of code ever written? < 1303346272 505148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you feed that thing space? < 1303346284 89645 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives a correct result (false) < 1303346289 115186 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because x.x is undefined :) < 1303346291 940769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot, ow my brain < 1303346293 422073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, right. < 1303346294 67431 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And x. is a syntax error) < 1303346295 937459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the first param though? < 1303346303 316972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : glogbot, ow my brain < 1303346304 302236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot < 1303346313 750043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Yahweasel don't screw up my tab complete like that. < 1303346314 98169 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... the first param is the character being checked ... < 1303346320 232643 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the param named "first" X-D < 1303346324 553439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp derp < 1303346329 789596 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some characters are allowed as the first character, others aren't. < 1303346339 435891 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :first says "oh by the way this is the first character so test it in that position" < 1303346346 416808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders embarrassing Gregor by posting "I think it needs more cowbell." as a comment on that pull request. < 1303346352 177895 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is certain that tup is the best thing evar < 1303346365 969419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT'S STILL AN AGENT OF THE UNIX MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX < 1303346369 138158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see how it works. < 1303346382 486098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it is strange and I do not know why you want this code. < 1303346403 41131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So's everything else. < 1303346410 534970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, EXCEPT WINDOWS < 1303346416 281820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: lies.) < 1303346422 606728 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I CAN MAKE IT < 1303346433 372098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Windows is the most subtle and effective part of the UMIC.) < 1303346461 202657 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: JavaScript allows any character in the Unicode letter classes to be an identifier character. That's thousands of characters, and there is no simple test for which is which (conventionally people just have a giant list) < 1303346490 319164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a problem of Unicode, I think. < 1303346491 341842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Narcissus is a JavaScript interpreter in JavaScript. < 1303346511 965849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahweasel: :trying to justify any non-trivial bit of code to zzo38 as not being a problem of the perfectly good things you're using: < 1303346513 726937 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then that program is cheating < 1303346517 340957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What. < 1303346526 897817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahweasel: (OK, I do this too :P) < 1303346558 741846 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not cheating, it's metacircular :P < 1303346567 282976 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, is that different? < 1303346573 484944 :Yahweasel!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1303346578 474371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FEEL METACIRCULAR PUNK < 1303346582 608026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL, DO YA? < 1303346590 63104 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is increasingly of the opinion that hand-writing a ./configure and a Tupfile is significantly better than using Autocruft. < 1303346605 710696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awesome to watch pikhq slowly turning into me :D < 1303346608 54563 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metacircular = using host interpreter features to enable the guest interpreter, short of actually polluting one with the other. < 1303346608 231867 :coppro!~scshunt@129.97.134.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303346610 332343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST AS IT HAPPENED WITH PH < 1303346637 46457 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pooppy. < 1303346648 164327 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll note that I have been wanting something better than Autocruft for years. < 1303346658 226553 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ autotools < 1303346664 857675 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that most things made it even more painful. < 1303346673 580415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "The change would be very subtle... It might take ten years or so..." < 1303346743 881204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the only "problem" with Tup is that it can't really do the equivalent of "make install" or something. Due to it only focusing on building shit. < 1303346768 611346 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's easy enough to fix. ./install < 1303346784 349975 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303346810 177794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am upset that noöne has asked me why Windows is a vital part of the UMIC, but I suppose I'm just nicking it from someone else. < 1303346819 529750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because it's so bad it drives people to it. < 1303346829 23607 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is UMIC? < 1303346833 931137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's because it was obvious. < 1303346852 178110 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Unix Military-Industrial Complex < 1303346862 106754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? < 1303346883 866385 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snark. < 1303347005 954773 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BY THE WAY GUYS: Not only does JavaScript support Unicode identifiers and whitespace, it supports Unicode numbers. < 1303347031 21681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it need to support any of these things? < 1303347096 225205 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode identifiers for foreign-written code, Unicode whitespace for no half-decent reason whatsoever, and Unicode numbers is the worst idea ever conceived of. < 1303347214 791021 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can understand full-width space. < 1303347234 329137 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK looks all sorts of weird with half-width spaces. < 1303347268 163243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then they should support full-pitch punctuation as well, isn't it? < 1303347328 397724 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ogham space mark is the most vital piece of whitespace. < 1303347332 998421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better code would be one where no lookup tables are needed for this purpose since the information about letters, punctuation, direction, converting uppercase/lowercase, numbers, etc, would be encoded in bits that are part of the code-point. < 1303347344 893595 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so who won libc.so ? < 1303347351 417982 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Enjoy your infinite foresight. < 1303347354 453077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the problem with unicode, that is requires large lookup tables. < 1303347364 771542 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Still not allocated yet >_< < 1303347369 457800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, some guy. < 1303347385 737247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ogham/og/ha/m/o/gh/am/ogha/m < 1303347389 549600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, from now on prices in this channel are all to be given in libc.sos. < 1303347406 481785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 libc.so = ...I forget, it's around $1000. < 1303347412 336928 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1,350 < 1303347414 338330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we'd have to talk in nanolibc.sos for everything that anyone but Gregor can actually afford. < 1303347419 80277 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no kidding. You sure it is not a gal? < 1303347419 327359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303347427 763519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just microlibc.sos. < 1303347433 24711 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It'd be fairly hard to design an encoding that was both compact *and* encoded that useful information... < 1303347445 94458 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303347451 859317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: "Guys" is fairly gender-neutral as these things go. < 1303347460 866699 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Though it would have the neat property that useful predicates on characters would be a trivial matter of looking at a bit. < 1303347465 843054 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some guy with a vagina" < 1303347468 918986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303347485 342495 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The worst part is, that does not actually parse as "off". < 1303347488 858558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was fucking some guy last night" "You're GAY?" "No, are you sexist?" < 1303347505 850018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :METASEXISM: You assumed the first speaker was MALE < 1303347519 838922 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH < 1303347556 577904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Minecraft costs almost precisely a millilibc.so. < 1303347579 285655 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Minecraft costs $1. < 1303347580 365480 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knew. < 1303347584 735852 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think that "Some guy with a vagina" would plausibly get interpreted as someone trans... < 1303347603 510689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some vagina with a guy. < 1303347604 390739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1303347609 9831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1303347641 260904 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Lookin' for centilibc thar genius? < 1303347646 745737 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES ALL RIGHT < 1303347660 454429 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- uses imperial digits < 1303347660 992256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T MOCK ME WITH YOUR ABILITY TO DIVIDE BY TEN < 1303347670 761199 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT REMINDS ME < 1303347694 857243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: USE EMPIRICAL DIGITS INSTEAD < 1303347697 643973 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently German eggs don't come in dozens. They come in double baker's third dozens. < 1303347703 640504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote DON'T MOCK ME WITH YOUR ABILITY TO DIVIDE BY TEN < 1303347705 892296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1303347706 70284 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know. I was semi joking < 1303347707 591795 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :372) DON'T MOCK ME WITH YOUR ABILITY TO DIVIDE BY TEN < 1303347738 377174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... They split an egg in 2/3rds? < 1303347769 629013 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, they come in boxes of a double baker's third dozen! < 1303347788 881396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 2*(3/13) < 1303347794 964889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again: they split an egg in 2/3rds? < 1303347801 740441 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your application of "baker's" leaves much to be desired. < 1303347808 363559 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A baker's dozen is 13. < 1303347809 759182 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "third" < 1303347834 411802 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A baker's dozen is 13, and half a baker's dozen is 6.5, but what's a baker's half dozen? < 1303347847 964790 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your application of grammar makes Grammar Hitler want to kill some Grammar Jews. < 1303347864 34348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ordinary Hitler and I just want to kill some ordinary Jews. < 1303347876 730149 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shall be the Final Grammatical Solution. < 1303347886 890841 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You would! < 1303347888 19993 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303347920 896140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! < 1303347921 942028 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how else to put it. < 1303347928 599887 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They come in a double baker's third dozen. < 1303347942 605231 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand egg unit conversions so I have to present it in terms of dozens. < 1303347951 720786 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Give a number. < 1303347968 813885 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's double a baker's third dozen! < 1303347976 381495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! < 1303347978 111818 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :373) Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! < 1303347991 708306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, so. < 1303347996 706411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dozen is twelve. < 1303347996 903312 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall just assume they have 2/3rd eggs in Germany. < 1303347998 793967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A half dozen is six. < 1303348002 753099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a baker's half dozen is seven. < 1303348008 917644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they come in fourteens. < 1303348011 452966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1303348012 158089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1303348015 135813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a baker's third dozen is... < 1303348019 667408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A third dozen is twelve divided by three. < 1303348024 486929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is four. < 1303348026 353310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they come in eights. < 1303348029 128969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do they come in eights? < 1303348031 679430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1303348033 174868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1303348038 212580 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A baker's third dozen would be 5. < 1303348038 953107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ten. < 1303348040 274737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They come in ten. < 1303348042 360135 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, elliott. < 1303348045 197024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1303348048 504795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they come in twice that, i.e. ten. < 1303348049 473492 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what he called it, yeah. < 1303348065 294273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the pfargtle would they come in 10? < 1303348069 679450 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I know what ten pencils is or something, but not what ten ... eggs is. I just don't get egg unit conversion. < 1303348091 212503 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Why do they come < 1303348097 686237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dozens here, anyways? < 1303348113 588144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 12 is a much nicer number than 10. < 1303348113 947689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Egg" is the unit. < 1303348143 520942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd be nicer still if we used base 12. < 1303348150 10664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is trolling pikhq so successfully :P < 1303348150 495853 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because that's how many eggs a non-union hen lays. The German Hen Union went on strike to reduce their egg production. < 1303348152 107897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would. < 1303348169 836749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, we don't have six fingers on each hand. < 1303348198 889934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, you killed my father. < 1303348203 727530 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, prepare to die. < 1303348205 312594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base eleven could work, if we kept our hands in our pockets. IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE OF PENIS < 1303348233 36806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nine, ten, ... aww, damn, time to open the porn bookmarks." < 1303348324 583962 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, there are cultures with base 12 numbering. < 1303348335 884925 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not many. < 1303348378 183426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, including whatever Euro-Arabic-whatever milieu is generally called Western culture. < 1303348407 866000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's a reason eleven and twelve are special cases, and dozen exists as a word. < 1303348427 893396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And time is base twelve too. < 1303348434 972950 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eleven and twelve are not remnants of a base 12 numeral system. < 1303348436 448955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or base twenty-four with decimals or similarly-awkward constructions. < 1303348451 472283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Remember that imperial units are base twelve. < 1303348464 117536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from actual honest-to-god pure numbers, we used to be pretty damn base-twelve. < 1303348465 660506 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only in Germanic languages... < 1303348484 13173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then why are the word "eleven" and "twelve", then? < 1303348490 326512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We used base-12 units with base-10 numbers. < 1303348512 814681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but we tended to always use the closest unit, unlike metric, where we tend to stick to three decimal places. < 1303348514 571003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean. < 1303348517 897926 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Cognate with something like "one ten" and "two ten", and evolved into special cases. < 1303348541 187330 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "dozen" is cognate with "duodecim", coming by way of French... < 1303348549 845255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Remember that imperial units are base twelve. < 1303348554 318525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha no. < 1303348558 510910 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, s/duodecim/DVODECIM/ < 1303348563 756274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK they're base twelve except on Sundays. < 1303348567 28667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And full moons. < 1303348572 145624 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, only certain of the imperial units are base twelve. < 1303348576 471040 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are base-WTF. < 1303348585 412132 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yards < 1303348586 971520 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gallons < 1303348587 150425 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them, really. < 1303348591 286280 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 3 < 1303348642 412101 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the units of volume are powers of *two*... < 1303348683 329732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo confusing instances, of course. < 1303348693 400413 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 Tbsp to the jigger...) < 1303348723 205978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SI prefixes: THE FORCE OF BORING IN THE WORLD??? < 1303348769 797451 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, the whole imperial system would actually make some *sense* if it were base 12. :P < 1303349182 187889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume you are playing Magic: the Gathering with many players, all for themself (no teams). The card is "Whenever a player loses the game, choose one -- You gain 20 life; or target player loses 20 life." I think this might make everyone wants to beat you now, instead of each other, isn't it? < 1303349274 863387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1303349276 469011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1303349397 764848 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, how am I going to play D&D without a stapler??? < 1303349490 992233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.49.17 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303349653 742471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON O < 1303352440 987780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Should I just modify sabotage to get the initial Kitten, or is that LOSER TALK? < 1303352441 867284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: < 1303352442 808550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOSER TALK < 1303352448 620262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has bootstrap scripts.) < 1303352576 312499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOSER TALK < 1303352843 927956 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : v8> function ᚏᚇᚈᚁᚍ() {     return "ᚁᚌᚌ ᚔᚈᚅ ᚃᚏᚏᚌ ᚋᚉᚄᚓ ᚐᚒᚏᚇᚒᚁᚍ ᚉᚎ ᚏᚇᚈᚁᚍ!"; }; ; var ᚏᚆᚉᚅᚄ = ᚏᚇᚈᚁᚍ(); ᚏᚆᚉᚅᚄ; < 1303352844 284492 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: "ᚁᚌᚌ ᚔᚈᚅ ᚃᚏᚏᚌ ᚋᚉᚄᚓ ᚐᚒᚏᚇᚒᚁᚍ ᚉᚎ ᚏᚇᚈᚁᚍ!" < 1303352848 904334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The best. < 1303352852 808689 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript, friends and countrymen. < 1303352867 48715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: omg, I'm gonna pioneer a js obfuscator using that < 1303352885 630145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Render your code completely unreadable by anyone but Ogham natives" < 1303353154 936334 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303353160 194884 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just still can't get over the fact that Ogham space mark is whitespace :P < 1303353163 115801 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's NOT WHITE < 1303353171 922448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is YOUR MOM < 1303353177 400086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we don't discriminate against HER in our languages. < 1303353180 850216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be RACIST. < 1303353239 629201 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, APNIC IPv4 remaining (including reserved block) is 0.99 now (haven't been looking at it for a while). < 1303353257 498166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How long until it's all over and we can stop caring X-D < 1303353284 275884 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, APNIC doesn't currently have enough members to allocate it all. < 1303353332 724236 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, If every member got their block, it would take APNIC down to something like 0.7 or so. < 1303353359 548998 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1303353771 915753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vomits at libtool < 1303354001 19168 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah... < 1303354122 64330 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303354167 217465 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I libtool by convincing Automake that it's building a program and its LDFLAGS include -shared -Wl,-soname,whatever :P < 1303354294 230188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah, the joys of relative sanity. < 1303354302 20712 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, you're still using Autocruft. :P < 1303354348 162721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autopoop < 1303354354 510457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUTOMATES ALL YOUR BUILDING AND POOPING < 1303354490 523789 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303354520 700426 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1303354663 944592 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1303354757 614936 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303354783 858149 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303354875 447812 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303355037 83798 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303355086 720174 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303355216 230294 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303355362 759468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: btw, i'm working on the compiler now < 1303356125 490968 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1303357620 780627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS XEIGHTSIX SO REGISTER STARVED < 1303357680 641783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are a famous bisexual < 1303357703 625307 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i have work today < 1303358030 558045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303358031 728094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1303358170 844763 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-93.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358171 22351 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-93.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1303358171 22501 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358183 544826 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1303358193 194775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not? < 1303358201 931514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dance < 1303358232 907075 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358246 568324 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be one of the easter days, given that there are no lectures, but then again my mom told me that she's a famous bisexual and that she does have work normally < 1303358285 494654 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck isn't this on the uni website < 1303358347 945860 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303358429 917757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of thsi famous bisexual meme < 1303358456 833516 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1303358492 852050 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358548 109506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get all my memmes on wikkipedia < 1303358548 815283 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303358645 246792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mikkipaedi < 1303358692 858544 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-133.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358700 921450 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-133.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1303358701 99047 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303358746 391119 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiewjgrireogaogirejgkfldsa < 1303358769 913196 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303358963 941842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/jFlXZ.png ;; I'm not surprised this program exits, seeing as it's complete syntactical nonsense. < 1303359864 215236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303359897 132413 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38! < 1303359915 635768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1303359935 943530 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303360005 4590 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the marketing department was like we totally don't need those dorky coder geeks to write this proggy for the ad lol we're smart too < 1303360026 318432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and management was like wow that's a smart < 1303360040 256325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about cooperative chess variants and such? < 1303360063 621347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have very little opinions on anything chess related < 1303360077 455691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Have you ever played chess or any variants? Or invented any? < 1303360144 446186 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303360180 274044 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everyone's played chess < 1303360185 903506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't like it < 1303360216 511220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you prefer shogi? < 1303360226 485756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you prefer backgammon? < 1303360227 949324 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or poker? < 1303360284 579189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or death < 1303360373 500470 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303360481 984971 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i prefer games that make me think < 1303360488 766766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so none of the above < 1303360520 917388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those make me do bredth-first search unsuccessfully < 1303360539 250894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: remember your infinite-dimension four in a row? < 1303360547 931587 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well backgammon i don't really know, and shogi i just assume is just like chess < 1303360551 547968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1303360552 690498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a good game. even if it was unfortunately limited to only the equivalent of the computable reals in coordinates < 1303360555 678582 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf-anf-oh < 1303360567 299913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sad limitation of our crappy third-rate universe < 1303360579 490377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: didn't you have a bot < 1303360580 759475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall a bot < 1303360582 986340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want the bot < 1303360602 319836 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot only allowed eventually periodic sequences of coordinates, i should certainly make a better language for it < 1303360631 28183 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Shogi is similar to chess. There are a few differences. Do you ever play Go? < 1303360634 921819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you literally just need (N -> N) in any total FP language :P < 1303360638 176036 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :go seems okay < 1303360654 457799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't played enough go to know for sure < 1303360661 238185 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might suck ass too once you get the hang of it < 1303360687 739412 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure < 1303360742 549391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i wonder if the analogue of the game with all computable functions is somehow non-trivial to AI < 1303360743 952840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1303360748 772788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's hard to define "picking a computable function" < 1303360751 199142 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the rules should be changed in some way, one piece per turn and four in a row seems kinda meh when you have soooo many of them dimensions < 1303360760 158012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity in a ro < 1303360760 536110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1303360764 115248 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303360768 598 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it! < 1303360775 743155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can place infinity per turn, but somehow it's restricted so you can't put them all in a row < 1303360781 199097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically everything is infinite. < 1303360781 943188 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you always put down an infinite amount of pieces < 1303360784 205737 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1303360785 379969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303360799 36722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also, maybe instead of integer coordinates, they should be reals themselves < 1303360805 541156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for any reason, just, you know < 1303360806 696170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more infinite < 1303360806 873823 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DSA < 1303360842 780387 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A problem with the game of Go is that it has no well-defined end condition. < 1303360856 24246 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe games are also played infinitely long < 1303360856 372787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more an awesome thing than a problem :) < 1303360860 145154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah < 1303360866 458432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and all games started at the beginning of time < 1303360871 463946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a random one from all possible games, and start from there < 1303360881 81671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's always had infinite moves done < 1303360883 670061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't think that's very relevant < 1303360896 420498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's certainly not relevant in the current discussion, but i mean even for go < 1303361022 980498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i meant more like, for each ordinal, you define a partially filled board by taking the union of all the last ones and then applying the player functions in succession, then play until the first uncountable ordinal < 1303361027 705088 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variant of Go has well-defined end condition, capturing and placing stones is the same as Go, but it ends when one player has five in a row. So, it is cross between Go and Go-moku. < 1303361028 454912 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303361031 772615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: fuck that's hot :| < 1303361033 150294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a magican < 1303361033 470335 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1303361035 415121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :magician < 1303361037 89452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: hello < 1303361050 15893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: you're a long-awaited but inevitably inferior sequel to the original dbc, right? < 1303361053 880577 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a pretty standard set theoretic trick, which i may be fucking up... :P < 1303361065 493526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i know, but it's never been applied to infinite-dimensional four in a row before. < 1303361071 82249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :D < 1303361077 637995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i don't actually mean four in a row < 1303361079 315392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean tic tac toe < 1303361087 643547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1303361091 145199 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out why a combination of setjmp and alarm doesn't work. Anyone want to have a look at it? < 1303361094 135259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine inf-d four in a row < 1303361098 720223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things fall infinitely far down < 1303361100 865274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303361106 344485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: oh dear, that sounds scary < 1303361117 545433 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/B5tpPxD8 < 1303361137 936395 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seemed like the best way to limit the time a computer thinks for, in a two-player game. < 1303361158 530404 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now wants to do math on inf-anf-oh < 1303361179 157469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: linux, i assume < 1303361182 707701 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the alarm goes off, it should jump out of, probably, a deeply nested recursive call, and use the best answer it found yet. < 1303361185 214663 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, linux. < 1303361187 201038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how irix or hp-ux would react :-) < 1303361205 873574 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine the first time, but the second time, the alarm doesn't go off. < 1303361226 585826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: Perhaps the signal handler for SIGALRM is defined to be cleared when it goes off or something else similarly stupid? < 1303361237 162381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: The signal handler has to return for it to work. < 1303361251 659414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1303361256 824614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not allowed to do that in signal handlers full stop < 1303361259 883741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make instead, use timing inside of the code making the decision. < 1303361277 473156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: if the thinking is divided into neat "steps" in an infinite loop < 1303361280 417963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A signal handler cannot return if it uses longjmp < 1303361282 321937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could condition it on a volatile global boolean < 1303361287 440807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the signal handler can just flip it < 1303361307 800066 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that way will work better I guess < 1303361456 822284 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Longjmp-in-Handler.html < 1303361472 60579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303361478 358084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure that's gnu-specific at the very least < 1303361502 777753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how odd < 1303361518 107573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out which one of pastebin.com's buttons downloads. sigh. < 1303361526 881516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, it's download < 1303361531 28544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "raw" isn't actually raw... < 1303361565 796028 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why, I prefer sprunge instead (I learned about sprunge from this channel, actually) < 1303361579 840404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303361587 345062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: Are you sure it is OK to setjmp to the same jmp_buf twice? < 1303361592 4028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, since the gnu code does < 1303361660 518740 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that the signal handler cannot return if it uses longjmp. It is required for a signal handler to return. < 1303361662 836196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: hmm... stepping through it in gdb but the longjmp doesn't make me hopeful < 1303361672 198489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: incorrect, at least for glibc: http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Longjmp-in-Handler.html < 1303361715 114912 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there is the Linux man page tells you which commands are allowed in a signal handler, look at that for information. < 1303361749 574951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: incorrect, at least for glibc: http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Longjmp-in-Handler.html < 1303361752 673769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :longjmp is allowed. < 1303361853 886295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: interestingly, if i use alarm(9) < 1303361859 912336 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I looked at that. < 1303361863 801221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: then it interrupts much before 9 seconds the first turn < 1303361889 839505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1303361890 657151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1303362033 998216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: have you tried it with non-alarm signals e.g. sigint? < 1303362039 877413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that when the signal handler is called, the signal is blocked. < 1303362054 625582 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's automatically unblocked upon exit, but you don't exit. < 1303362063 812915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh < 1303362071 398906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why http://www.gnu.org/s/libc/manual/html_node/Longjmp-in-Handler.html fails to mention this < 1303362165 717007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See? I told you. < 1303362168 97241 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's my guess, anyway; man 2 signal says it's a bit platform-dependent whether it does the blocking or something else. < 1303362183 675403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You didn't tell fizzie, and besides, you were mostly wrong. < 1303362195 670765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is OK to use longjmp in the handler if you're aware of that. < 1303362236 690713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use sigaction with the SA_NODEFER flag to explicitly have it not block the signal while in the handler. < 1303362249 182314 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are the commands sigsetjmp and siglongjmp which will deal with blocked signals. < 1303362299 645315 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also that, right; those can restore the signal masks < 1303362362 551315 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. Thank you. (Is there a way to directly unblock a signal?) < 1303362472 624481 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just curious. Sigsetjump and siglongjmp fixed it.) < 1303362684 856766 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK, ...); needs the signal specified via an awkward sigset_t, though. < 1303362698 675931 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1303362740 229461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a high-performance boids program? < 1303362756 560549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/coding/comments/gumj1/tinyflock_a_simple_highperformance_threaded_and/ is making me drool over the idea of a fancy-spatial-data-structured GPGPU-accelerated boids program. < 1303362763 661533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK not actually drooling. < 1303362859 588119 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone's done some sort of boids CUDA example somewhere. < 1303362865 887064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: BTW, you'll want to set a global to condition on whether to longjmp; after all, you could finish the computation in half a second and still get a longjmp when the alarm goes. < 1303362872 361730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But will IT use a kd-tree???? HUH? < 1303362876 982343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have updated the Boids code to get 10000 boids on screen at once at 30 frames ... On the CUDA side, instead of working directly on values in global memory ... < 1303362880 549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK that's quite promising. < 1303362895 108257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I DON'T CARE I WANT THE PERFECT BOIDS PROGRAM < 1303362900 469333 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303362904 269829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1SzjsP34PE okay this is pretty. < 1303362921 881227 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One million boidsies, courtesy of a u-tube search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g60UrbWxt-8 < 1303362931 127240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boidsies" CUTEST PLURAL < 1303362952 85696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Such boring colours, though. < 1303363001 149202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The related-suggestions video of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjorOe810o&feature=related is more colarrful. < 1303363022 165898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nicer. Although the movement is more boringer. < 1303363063 543165 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol O(n^2) < 1303363065 330079 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303363072 629525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i eat twos for breakfast < 1303363090 377512 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303363161 597396 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took a melatonin < 1303363164 518373 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need sleep now < 1303363169 418988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C++ is an amazingly uniform and general language considering it started from C." < 1303363171 238376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--reddit madman < 1303363199 383486 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that make Objective C < 1303363206 588169 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : It doesn't work that fast, it's a placebo effect I took it a while ago < 1303363216 729829 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm horrible at predicting people < 1303363221 621693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: an ugly hodgepodge of hundreds of features :D < 1303363244 27728 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I think failure to acknowledge my existence should have been foreseeable < 1303363253 487118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: keeps me sane < 1303363294 391245 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, selep < 1303363295 439501 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep < 1303363302 294904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, racket for linux is distributed as a forty megabyte shell script < 1303363306 512024 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When lookoing such things I also found libunwind, which also allows you to access CPU registers (this is not portable unless you only access the IP and SP register, and only for equal/unequal comparison, I think). < 1303363313 882559 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott are you serious < 1303363319 56248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes, it's a shar < 1303363321 527909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a forty megabyte shar < 1303363326 507545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303363328 743183 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh < 1303363331 656445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can-has Tup'ised bsnes < 1303363337 363545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised dash's parser doesn't vomit its intestines then segfault < 1303363343 811438 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I had to deal with a 2G shar < 1303363346 980063 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't pretty < 1303363368 49010 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2G as in 2 gigabytes < 1303363375 532681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean gibioctets :> < 1303363376 45236 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe another half-gigabyte too I forget < 1303363396 6351 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, I'd need to do a *bit* more work to make it have more general choice of backends. < 1303363419 182065 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is deserving of kconfig. < 1303363422 578088 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it works. < 1303363443 223448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, looks like external dependency support isn't going to be added. < 1303363548 152676 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sad, but understandable. < 1303363572 210595 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It produces a lot of headaches, especially in Tup's model, for not *that* much benefit. < 1303363592 397023 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike redo, where it's pretty damned trivial to add. < 1303363596 824750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1303363606 539388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303363617 154616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yah, but then you can pretty much do it with make too :) < 1303363621 612597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by including a generated makefile < 1303363630 62841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make a program for Linux systems recording CD/DVD, can be called "rod", takes the device name as the command-line parameter and then records a ISO file from stdin onto the CD/DVD. (Do you know what "rod" is short for?) < 1303363638 692859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: record optical disk < 1303363640 352033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU SHOULD RETURN TO AGORA < 1303363645 82094 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That functioning correctly is a GNU-ism. < 1303363651 346489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, of course. It does stand for that. < 1303363652 85477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a gnuism in make < 1303363671 123082 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, even the pattern rules are a GNU-ism. < 1303363695 59997 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some people think codenames "Illimitible Illithid" and "Vancouver Island" are obviously not matching a common theme; but they are wrong.) < 1303363695 563659 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "standard" way of doing "%.c: %.o" is ".c.o:", IIRC. < 1303363705 632164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AGOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1303363724 883110 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303363732 35018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great timing oerjan < 1303363735 314615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm yelling at people to return to agora < 1303363738 621760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AGOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1303363752 753069 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1303363756 721804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1303363963 459643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan thinks i am weird. < 1303364008 976914 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say. < 1303364090 422533 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It won't "finish in half a second", because I'm doing iterative deepening. This is for a minichess program. < 1303364106 641610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: I'm just saying that there's always the possibility your algorithm finishes before the alarm. < 1303364116 305254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple matter of flicking a variable to make sure that doesn't happen /shrug < 1303364125 543682 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you Fizzie and everyone. < 1303364158 142476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc2: You make minichess program? And, I want to make tsumeshogi program, maybe I will make tsumeshogi program. < 1303364211 540322 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a nonterminating loop that does a series of gradually deeper minimax searches with alpha-beta pruning, so it is guaranteed to run forever if the alarm doesn't go off. < 1303364223 189272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aight then < 1303364227 36546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to play tsumeshogi. Is there any tsumeshogi for Nintendo DS? < 1303364274 182947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have the GameBoy tsumeshogi but the adapter card for making it work on Nintendo DS, is broken, so I cannot do that one. Also the "L" button is broken, too. < 1303364350 68128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to fix it? < 1303364444 75051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw, were you around for lindrum? < 1303364460 21788 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i cannot remember < 1303364514 894337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you aren't in the log, at least < 1303364519 321661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you used another name < 1303364589 196502 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm relatively sure i didn't < 1303364690 662334 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um are you talking about that famous scam which i barely remember? if so no i wasn't there. < 1303364712 455609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1303364998 223745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303365187 893263 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Windows have stupid exec in C? < 1303365632 166415 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it looks like to me, is that it joins the passed argv together with spaces in between, and then calls another function which separates them out into the argv array again, this time checking for quotation marks to allow spaces in arguments. ??? < 1303365656 475564 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1303365803 479854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303365809 804521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbkAECbDBE < 1303365813 741261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what compelled Google to make this. < 1303365825 645349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I wasn't aware windows had exec, I thought it had that CreateProcessEx? < 1303365856 906885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It does have exec, and it seems to act in the stupid way I described. < 1303365858 399800 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody chromercise < 1303365883 481529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think this is what they mean by twenty percent time < 1303365889 877206 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this video < 1303365940 474233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does not have fork, however. It does have exec. < 1303365942 166607 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ending is very tasteful < 1303365949 235768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's better in full hd < 1303366036 919546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303366042 2440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303366327 3376 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is minimax searches with alpha-beta pruning? < 1303366355 44402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows < 1303366360 273472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even obama known < 1303367273 889149 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq wonders if other countries do anything similar to the whole Air Force/Marine/Executive One rigamarole... < 1303367322 304110 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as just seen in wikipedia's Did You Know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_One < 1303367344 89795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like air poop five < 1303367370 670948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees elliott is trying to joke his way out of this _obvious_ synchronicity < 1303367381 75609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303367389 133674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's weird < 1303367393 553165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good portion of this channel < 1303367396 136875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have pooped today < 1303367397 515104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there i went < 1303367399 629823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentioning poop < 1303367401 934211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am saying is < 1303367407 953111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying that i AM a mystic < 1303367410 229645 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me although i think i will soon < 1303367414 821220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying that it's synchronicity and you sh- < 1303367418 76084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks oerjan i needed to know that < 1303367425 620723 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLAD TO HELP < 1303367909 984236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbkAECbDBE <<< this is probably the best thing i've ever seen < 1303368011 778124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1303368012 648193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day < 1303368016 110884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan was walking along the street < 1303368019 349203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Hugs passed oerjan < 1303368021 149859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Hugs said < 1303368023 533797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whoa. you're old" < 1303368025 890702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral of the story < 1303368028 635264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is oldsgfdhgjhm < 1303368084 50991 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves his cane angrily at elliott < 1303368091 181826 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you know the minimax algo? < 1303368096 745558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just saying that because you're oldsgfdhgjhm < 1303368100 672858 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, I don't. What is it? < 1303368114 456613 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YKGOML!sgfdhgjhm < 1303368119 309310 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the brute force algo for deciding the optimal way to play a game < 1303368133 497989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero sum game < 1303368133 882576 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1303368141 471050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make -sgfdhgjhm into a meme together < 1303368149 510210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: more like a zero fun game < 1303368164 752324 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. But are there shortcuts that can be used in some games? < 1303368165 760926 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaysgfdhgjhm < 1303368168 585589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw could you delete [[Template:Pre]]? thanks < 1303368177 238332 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: alpha-beta pruning is a shortcut. < 1303368193 24291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And what is alpha-beta pruning? < 1303368193 386450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll prune YOUR alpha-beta than anyone else < 1303368197 497721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1303368201 530065 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just wait a sec < 1303368206 661290 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1303368226 73508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan likes his alpha only moderately well-pruned < 1303368230 896251 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is alpha, what is beta, and what is pruning? < 1303368242 138224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pruning is when a man and a woman love each other very much < 1303368339 872639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say the algo is choosing the optimal choice for max at node x, and one subbranch of x has already been evaluated completely, giving max the choice of say 5 (max maximizes the value, min minimizes it...). now let's say in the next branch of x, called y, one subbranch z is evaluated, and min has the choice of 3 in there. now because y is a min node, min will either choose 3 or an even smaller value. therefore no other subbranches of y need to be looked a < 1303368359 790348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps say your mom? < 1303368374 913922 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are able to guess the mathematical framework in which we're working, that should be an okay explanation, but i'm skipping a lot of definition < 1303368375 436583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1303368426 914261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game is a tree, every second level of it is a max level, every second is a min level, and at the leaves, we have end results (in chess, end result is 1 if max wins, -1 if min wins) < 1303368459 46562 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but usually you will actually also cut the search using a heuristic, and thus have say 0.8 for "max probably wins") < 1303368477 791727 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you got cut off on that long line < 1303368487 36955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was alpha-beta pruned < 1303368487 424371 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i did? where? < 1303368489 170850 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"need to be looked a" < 1303368499 828427 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...therefore no other subbranches of y need to be looked at < 1303368508 466193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how it ends < 1303368519 779849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1303368530 971151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: husfhiufdhihiuuihihubfghigfiusijdfhiufhigjhgifdudfguhidfghiufgdsidfgidfgifdgigifidfgiretirikrjhuedkjej < 1303368535 70273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love keyboards < 1303368535 976256 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'd prune _your_ alphabet but you're already missing a row < 1303368662 830384 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate how unmathematical my approach is to this stuff < 1303368678 395674 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume for just values True and False, alpha/beta pruning is equivalent to what you get if you do minmax using shortcutting boolean operators like haskell's and/or? < 1303368683 545253 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a retard could not understand that explanation < 1303368693 678139 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1303368715 99756 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mathematics should be done in such a way that the listener need not be able to think at all < 1303368769 407944 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*explained < 1303368779 91698 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> and [True, True, or [True, error "Boo!"], False, or [False, error "Bah!"]] < 1303368779 465508 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think it is < 1303368780 69100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1303368835 855345 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very interesting in the case of 0 and 1 < 1303368843 299027 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess a more clever approach would also use heuristics to evaluate first the branches that seem likely to give a shortcut... < 1303368929 806053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it depends on the game < 1303368944 517407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm right it's more subtle with more values < 1303368950 606522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alpha-beta pruning usually gives you a rather small speed-up < 1303368951 649494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1303368962 115345 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it could still be done with lazy evaluation... < 1303368993 524263 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it what else I would be asking, what shortcuts are there that depends on game? Such as, specific to chess, shogi, tsumeshogi, etc < 1303369098 174465 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha-beta pruning does work better if you order the moves properly; and if you're doing something like iterative deepening, you can use the previous rounds' results to order them. < 1303369136 204921 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no idea, but to give an example of what alpha-beta pruning means in this, say one move has been deemed okay, and after another possible move, your opponent can eat your queen, giving him a very nice estimated utility; it then makes no sense to look at his other possible moves, because no matter how much better they are than eating your queen, you will not let him eat your queen anyway! < 1303369146 816640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that alpha-beta pruning with optimal move ordering would turn b^d nodes-to-search into b^(d/2). < 1303369156 770347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"means in this" < 1303369158 1182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303369163 239662 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i have wikipedia's Sprouts game in my watchlist, one of the links there is to someone who uses quite interesting theory based on nimbers to get shortcuts from symmetry < 1303369185 724465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've used it to calculate winning player for various starting positions < 1303369217 944540 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: But sometimes it might be the better move that requires queen sacrifice < 1303369246 328501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303369299 71387 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algo has already checked that after eating your queen, your opponent goes on to eating your king and your physical body < 1303369313 742855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, it is like what I mean, like symmetry. In shogi you can have the board horizontal mirror is equivalent. < 1303369317 935081 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: O, it does, OK. < 1303369323 382969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is after that, alpha-beta pruning cuts off the search for a strategy for the opponent that lets it eat the whole fucking world < 1303369327 120426 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also i've never read it myself but the book in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winning_Ways_for_your_Mathematical_Plays probably contains many such tricks < 1303369338 402570 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303369370 491452 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some fun book that contained x-completeness proof for tons of different games < 1303369375 818507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a chess game without pawns, you can rotate/mirror any direction to make equivalence. < 1303369377 134637 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't access it anywhere < 1303369384 216259 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a partial google books version < 1303369402 4925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But shogi is different and can never make this. In shogi only horizontal mirror symmetry counts. < 1303369425 566468 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetry doesn't give you much in search unless you use it in some very clever way < 1303369473 812586 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1303369547 110497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, I can understand that it is. < 1303369675 74969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you read mathematical playes < 1303369676 345886 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sadly i don't think chess and the like have the right kind of symmetry. for sprouts if the board splits into two equal halves you can use nimber addition to show that the first player loses (with the standard "first player unable to move loses" winning condition) < 1303369677 655408 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*plays < 1303369685 263185 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i said no just above... < 1303369693 625495 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOOOOOOOOOOPS < 1303369698 535258 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*- < 1303369726 801652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it as "zzo38: i'm linking this thing here ..." < 1303369750 771541 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/board/game configuration/ < 1303369768 921875 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it said that too... < 1303369848 725924 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you skimmed the book? < 1303369856 869077 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it mathematicsly < 1303369863 719953 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should googelate it < 1303369925 415078 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but it's where they use all of that nimber/surreal number theory and stuff so obviously yes < 1303369973 916942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303370017 38562 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, are there any shortcuts for searching moves in tsume shogi? There is restriction, such as, first player must give check every turn and has no their own king, second player must delay being checkmated as long as possible. First player loses if they cannot check, and wins if checkmating second player's king. < 1303370046 854271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PH LEVEL OF THIS CHANNEL JUST ROSE < 1303370064 616439 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got more basic? < 1303370089 681777 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because Phantom_Hoover is a famous bisexual < 1303370119 713529 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well i cannot say as i don't know tsume shogi, or shogi for that matter < 1303370123 195129 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is restriction, such as, first player must give check every turn and has no their own king" < 1303370146 901471 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how to... that sentence < 1303370166 852952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should already make search algorithm shorter because less moves are possible. < 1303370228 908987 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First player loses if they cannot check" < 1303370233 759170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a slightly broken game < 1303370244 557963 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it should be possible to do "tshume chess" as well, then... < 1303370252 152745 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tsume < 1303370266 977786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303370285 110766 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Tsumeshogi is one player game, the board is set up according to the problem and you have to win in a certain number of moves to solve. Similar to chess problem, a bit. < 1303370287 495294 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, how can the first player check on every turn? < 1303370290 236575 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1303370319 738849 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like restricted chess problems i assume < 1303370331 825865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, like that. < 1303370333 922873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't pretty much all chess problems solvable by computer in a micromoment? < 1303370359 15944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there _are_ chess problems where you have to check every turn because otherwise the other player gets to do something disastrous with their queen or the like < 1303370378 916468 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :most problems i've seen are like that < 1303370395 813545 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because that's an easy way to tell the player what to do and i've been doing very easy ones < 1303370423 793258 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's to be a fun problem, it needs to be solvable by humans, which pretty much means it must be extremely easy for a computer < 1303370456 357648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, chess sucks ass < 1303370464 327689 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1303370472 105073 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose pretty much all combinatorial puzzles are like that < 1303370508 915647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303370529 308788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK NOW IT IS BACK TO ITS HEIGHTENED STATE < 1303370601 158509 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a good question, are there fun combinatorial puzzle type of things that computers can't solve but humans can < 1303370621 712860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hi < 1303370701 713730 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difficulty in tsumeshogi is to properly program the "futile interposition" rule, although I suppose it could be programmed without such rule, too; or possibly using a restricted form of that rule: that if second player drops pieces which are captured by the same piece checking on the previous turn, which is the same piece still giving check, and this lasts the same way until checkmate, then you rewind to the point where such thing started. < 1303370738 168813 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"drops"? < 1303370752 97073 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm puts somewhere maybe < 1303370787 948566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that doesn't sound at all hard to program < 1303370788 795512 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I mean a piece from off of the board is placed on the board in a vacant position. This is sometimes called "drops". It is a rule in shogi, that chess doesn't have. < 1303370810 364264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, it is why I made this restricted futile interposition rule, to make it easy to program. < 1303370837 357249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry i only read parts of your message < 1303370844 596883 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the actual rules? < 1303370845 290890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :asref9kj0oiae < 1303370846 572365 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ruel < 1303370847 883337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rule < 1303370991 508270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus Star Control 2 AI vs AI matches are so stupid. < 1303370994 377343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I am not exactly sure on the actual futile interpositon rule, actually. But, basically, it is in case you interpose the check and it doesn't help by changing situation to something different, then it is not allowed. See this: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_13/futile.png The piece in the corner is "angle mover" moves like the bishop. The one next to it is "dragon king", like a rook or king. If you move, they can interpose. < 1303371001 879980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hi < 1303371009 888616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi. < 1303371013 21742 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is, moving causes discovered check in this case.) < 1303371032 141234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally as if Zap Brannigan pilots the lighter ships when they're up against heavies. < 1303371136 505542 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::SD < 1303371151 537940 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that zappie is one famous bisexual < 1303371152 406554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1303371160 151793 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropping on the diagonal blocks check. Moving down doesn't help (you cannot capture your own pieces). If you move to the right, interposing means if they interpose is futile because you can capture opponent's dragon king, gives check again, interposing that check can be captured and is checkmate (your silver general is next to it, guards it). < 1303371180 63501 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Rule of futile interposition is very confusing. < 1303371183 30053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be fair. < 1303371194 216326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's also a famed military tactician. < 1303371236 491645 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you see what I mean, now? < 1303371349 212846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, once the giant laser death frigate appears the other team appear to go for his "clog the enemy cannons with wreckage" tactic. < 1303371426 648362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a famous bisexual < 1303371429 641801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wiat < 1303371433 263762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous gay vampire < 1303371435 220983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed my lists up < 1303371731 733688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restricted futile interposition rule should be easy to program, not even necessary to try all the moves from there. It can simply check all positions in that line. The only checking pieces that can be interposed in this way is: fragrance chariot, flying chariot, angle mover, dragon king, dragon horse. However, it is also necessary to try promotion if applicable, so this is a slight complication (but not too much). < 1303371778 376436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is ignoring my /msgs because he is a nazi.tell your frends < 1303371897 432135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello #esoteric. Phantom_Hoover is ignoring elliotts /msgs because he is a nazi.tell your frends. < 1303371910 144758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay we are yor frends < 1303371959 528019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dammit I warned you about getting me labelled a Nazi. < 1303371967 15713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i recall you saying < 1303371970 20693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell everyone i'm a nazi < 1303371974 179186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they will judge me < 1303371975 780068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i am a nazi < 1303372008 260628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do nazi the problem < 1303372021 929189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol that is funay < 1303372045 11595 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it were also original it'd be something < 1303372063 305203 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, interposition is not always futile, sometimes it is not the entire sequence which is then checkmate because it is possible to make other things half-way through to change stuff. < 1303372091 201494 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, king's moves. < 1303372164 551226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeatly capturing interposing piece does not change whether or not king can move, though. < 1303372369 464798 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... IPv4 allocation rate on ipv4depletion site is falling pretty rapidly. It was about 2.80 on last Friday. Now it is 2.15. < 1303372601 459035 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah (reding old comment entries in Huston's IPv4 address report)... "The uncertainty of this September date is +/- 3 months, so that within a 95% confidence level APNIC will exhaust its address pools sometime between June 2011 and December 2011.". That exhaustion happened 14th April. < 1303372736 406799 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That real date would be outside of even 99% confidence interval of that prediction. < 1303373832 66571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: I can give you two water energies, but only if you don't need it. < 1303373841 495453 :alexxxia!~alessia@host157-169-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1303373949 361245 :alexxxia!~alessia@host157-169-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Client Quit < 1303375812 746150 :tim000!~tim000@74-137-120-92.dhcp.insightbb.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303375863 579894 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1303376071 519833 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303379930 857485 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1303380116 166340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303380309 834281 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1303380588 408561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303381408 227797 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1303381796 200688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303382259 846835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that pesky phantom hoover return < 1303382508 428615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303383105 856383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote would that pesky phantom hoover return * Phantom_Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric < 1303383108 518464 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :374) would that pesky phantom hoover return * Phantom_Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric < 1303383135 599654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, clearly my WiFi has a sense of humour. Also that quote sucks. < 1303383146 217405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 374 < 1303383147 467755 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1303383156 397179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was four minutes late, so yah :P < 1303383165 234897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1303383254 492919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scalable SQL: How do large-scale sites and applications remain SQL-based?" < 1303383256 817106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exercise in timewasting. < 1303383670 649270 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1303383899 305744 :Trurar!~smelzer@kiel-d9bfd63d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303383921 183869 :Trurar!~smelzer@kiel-d9bfd63d.pool.mediaWays.net PART :#esoteric < 1303384093 542431 :dbc2!~dbc@204.144.56.100 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1303385193 288666 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad's pattern recognition: Nonexistent < 1303385209 541760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover you are clearly pinged out. < 1303385252 12740 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I may be affected by ... selective.. what is it called? < 1303385329 720444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blindness? < 1303385347 628194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303385479 500420 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's dragging me to this dinner thing with my step-mom and her sisters. I told him I have plans for tomorrow. He insists we won't be back late. He has work tomorrow. But he always insists that, and guess what? < 1303385538 891431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert lack of comment about Sgeo__'s failure to exercise own independence because I've given up. < 1303385595 77029 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiparadigm programming has failed. < 1303385601 203750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1303385602 445495 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet chatrooms are virtual meeting places where attitudes are shared, strengthened and validated. In some channels, hackers of hate can sow misinformation about the plight of programmers elsewhere. In our communities, groups and organisations led by young, dynamic innovators promote separatism by encouraging programmers to define themselves solely in terms of their language. < 1303385611 900353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for that definition. < 1303385689 480199 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a single-language kind of guy < 1303385700 194268 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep wanting to be for some weird reason < 1303385710 237774 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the siren call of new languages.. < 1303385736 313936 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let me end with this. This terrorism is completely indiscriminate and has been thrust upon us. It cannot be ignored or contained; we have to confront it with confidence – confront the ideology that drives it by defeating the ideas that warp so many young minds at their root, and confront the issues of identity that sustain it by standing for a much broader and generous vision of programmers in our servers. < 1303385786 308523 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, none of this will be easy. We will need stamina, patience and SICP, and it won’t happen at all if we act alone. This ideology crosses not just our continent but all continents, and we are all in this together. At stake are not just algorithms, it is our way of expressing algorithms. That is why this is a challenge we cannot avoid; it is one we must rise to and overcome. Thank you. < 1303386273 76457 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Une société qui s’écroule, une économie qui régresse, des appels à toujours plus de contrôles politiques pour juguler ce déclin, la situation actuelle a un goût de déjà-vu. Bien sûr on pense à la crise 1929. Mais c’est en fait à un livre - et désormais un film - qu’il est fait référence ici. Il s’agit d’Atlas Shrugged (la révolte d'Atlas) de la philosophe russo-américaine Ayn Rand, publié en 1957. Ce < 1303386287 91734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: yeah, I can't read French and I don't give a shit about Ayn Rand. < 1303386778 633094 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gauss shaves both himself and Bertrand Russell. < 1303386828 87345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: are you a markov chain bot? < 1303386838 962420 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Gauss, correlation implies causation. < 1303386874 381697 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gauss can trisect an angle with a straightedge and compass. < 1303386886 258726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gauss facts. wonderful. < 1303386937 429148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this like Chuck Norris but with Gauss and math? < 1303387058 309328 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Malament–Hogarth (M-H) spacetime, named after David B. Malament and Mark Hogarth, is a relativistic spacetime that possesses the following property: there exists a worldline λ and an event p such that all events along λ are a finite interval in the past of p, but the proper time along λ is infinite < 1303387071 527012 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :The significance of M-H spacetimes is that they allow for the implementation of certain non-Turing computable tasks (hypercomputation). The idea is for an observer at some event in p's past to set a computer (Turing machine) to work on some task and then have the Turing machine travel on λ, computing for all eternity. Since λ lies in p's past, the Turing machine can signal (a solution) to p at any stage of this never-ending task. Meanwhi < 1303387078 445593 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set-up can be used to decide the halting problem < 1303387087 918963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it's a markov bot guys < 1303387138 32128 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? Does this justify the nuclear option? < 1303387168 186686 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where is j-invariant? ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR US J-INVARIANT < 1303387179 17376 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1303387317 589371 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you guys are being boring on purpose to make me go away < 1303387369 692840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's a vendetta and a conspiracy. < 1303387387 268532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we /usually/ interesting? < 1303387408 744528 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk I was trying to raise some topic for discussion < 1303387550 239288 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303387557 887127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT HOOVER < 1303387564 362847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: with... French about Ayn Rand? < 1303387571 725577 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303387581 243782 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were really into Ayn Rand < 1303387589 34056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1303388033 687257 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1303388064 221774 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303388170 82693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hoover ain't so phantagmotirlca < 1303388389 444437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303391066 471269 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303391251 748303 :MysteriousDreams!~missmille@213.87.133.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303391304 216472 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303391559 831677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391561 425373 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :38) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" < 1303391624 318936 :MysteriousDreams!~missmille@213.87.133.4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1303391790 372964 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391791 203391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391791 763385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391791 941989 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :369) that one doesn't make a lot of sense outside context. Unless it is supposed to be a rather lame joke about STD as in HIV, and so on // HELLO WELCOME TO QUOTE DATABASES 101 < 1303391792 288050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391792 636129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391792 813770 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :326) okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" < 1303391793 678051 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :275) are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full < 1303391794 235357 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :196) (I've just been playing with myself.) < 1303391795 650466 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :62) yay fire! * Madelon combusts spontaneously. < 1303391815 473848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391815 688713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391815 995336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391816 180122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391816 517625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303391816 693974 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :33) pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. < 1303391817 387372 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :129) * augur rubs alise's bum [...] what? she said square ped :| < 1303391817 737660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :248) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious < 1303391819 127113 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :30) ehird: There is no h in "honour" < 1303391819 653913 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :192) Vorpal: YOU ARE AMERICAN < 1303392302 200768 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303392920 145718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303392943 111582 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303393029 852803 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have decided to play minecraft today. < 1303393065 573387 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just let that sink in for a while. < 1303394201 466159 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303394244 210810 :Xuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303394312 369069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303394520 532770 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303394555 308562 :Xuu!zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT : < 1303394572 200852 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303394596 393742 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1303394608 419081 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host < 1303394608 596432 :Zuu!~vdsvsd@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303394728 496953 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1303396048 961747 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1303396098 189592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote would that pesky phantom hoover return * Phantom_Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric < 1303396109 5676 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNCHRONICITY *MWAHAHAHA* *COUGH* *HACK* < 1303396116 971920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1303396126 665978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true synchronicity when your wifi goes out and then, minutes later, it's back :D < 1303396209 749535 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303396210 192425 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.82 QUIT :Changing host < 1303396210 369852 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1303396555 425142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: i think we may have discussed that spacetime thing before, or perhaps i saw it on reddit < 1303396568 283409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have we ever discussed Ayn Rand in French < 1303396574 451438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't indulge him. < 1303396589 940524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in _theory_ i know some french < 1303396623 903771 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I am putting hoover on igonre < 1303396644 754509 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayn rand is the kind of thing i would probably not want to read _even_ if half the internet didn't claim it was crap < 1303396664 448133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: that's interesting < 1303396674 354167 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason people say ayn rand is so rubbish is because they are scared of her ideas taking hold < 1303396677 703408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303396683 339129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're funny < 1303396688 78184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck is ayn rand < 1303396696 180359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dead moron < 1303396698 94995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola, no, it's because they're rubbish. < 1303396700 98091 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking about famous bisexuals, no one gives a fuck < 1303396706 837236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: [asterisk]JOHN GALT lol lol llol < 1303396713 317843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're on ignore. < 1303396730 543985 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :first some fucking bipolar bisexual from a tv show and then a dead bisexual from a french time travel comedy < 1303396733 941412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you're probably ignoring me, but I won't return the favour because your weirdness is quite entertaining in a strange way. < 1303396744 960947 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to play Portal 2 Coop < 1303396747 105294 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok i _am_ sorry i mentioned ayn rand. not for that spacetime thing, though. < 1303396760 93701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically i brought up ayn rand < 1303396760 992437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303396762 563224 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi crystal-cola, are you a famous bisexual? < 1303396766 418051 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303396774 252788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: bisexuality is misogyny < 1303396774 433220 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1303396774 801868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1303396778 306708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola just explained this to us yesterday < 1303396780 777537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as clear as mud < 1303396784 612174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really? < 1303396784 994055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, really transparent mud < 1303396789 354259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1303396791 555531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deeply, deeply need to read this. < 1303396794 357250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it here? < 1303396801 470859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. and you really don't want to. < 1303396807 756848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurt for about five hours. < 1303396826 342097 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never read the argument even though i asked what it was < 1303396832 673253 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was there for his ranting about something else < 1303396839 2265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could one of you famous bisexuals paste it? < 1303396854 839030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS, Chrome, I clearly typed "co" and then pressed tab to complete to "codu.org/logs", not "youtube.com". < 1303396872 134522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab doesn't work in chrome does it :) < 1303396874 591348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to complete < 1303396888 729980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably tabbed to a bookmark or top site < 1303396892 267647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which happened to be youtube < 1303396896 694057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my hammer, need to open beer :( < 1303396898 107758 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when the quick things are there, tab jumps to one of those < 1303396904 478714 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, Arkenhammer? < 1303396909 16804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → stuff < 1303396920 274801 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arkenWHATmer? < 1303396925 15243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BOO < 1303396938 207372 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Tool of the Titans < 1303396958 986170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm, i would look for crystal-cola's thing in the logs, but the only word i remember from there is misogyny and crystal-cola had his very own spelling for the word < 1303396967 859012 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe mysogeny? < 1303396969 78959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misogeny i think < 1303396971 580449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1303396974 741261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, two typos < 1303396978 467555 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :misogeny < 1303396986 865427 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall there were two typos < 1303396989 870186 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, link me < 1303396991 436618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: you realise it's spelled misogyny < 1303396993 367032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it like < 1303396995 519725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatred of genes < 1303396998 833120 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a sexist spelling < 1303397002 672546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303397010 422169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tell whether you're trolling or just stupid < 1303397017 673083 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysogeny < 1303397026 18351 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :wymen < 1303397027 60078 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1303397043 1776 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you elaborate? < 1303397049 466755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the word the is mysogenic < 1303397054 30431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to spell it tyh < 1303397061 341286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might want to mention it to ais523 if you really meant for Template:Pre to be deleted < 1303397070 164388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks for doing it for me < 1303397084 638670 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it was indeed mysogeny < 1303397104 482175 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Miller, Casey, Swift - The Handbook of Non-Sexist Language < 1303397107 304997 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysostgenetikk < 1303397174 508023 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity" < 1303397200 660851 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not following you < 1303397227 345256 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:30:43 see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html < 1303397261 578130 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that that link might run counter to crystal-cola's argument < 1303397263 533200 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think everyone should be heterosexual or something? < 1303397271 406381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, lesbian < 1303397272 504302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the men < 1303397282 773893 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303397285 557150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: well you know, i think the word sexist is sexist < 1303397288 515630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we should spell it sexiest. < 1303397294 488966 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good point < 1303397301 164550 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stop screwing around you famous bisexual, i'm trying to have a serious conversation < 1303397318 424801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that even possible < 1303397326 509448 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i'm a serious man. < 1303397332 818257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crystal-cola is j-invariant < 1303397372 39774 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was crystal clear < 1303397395 535600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen like 6 or crystal-cola's lines < 1303397403 196426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1303397405 485392 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola, are you opposed to bisexuals? < 1303397409 567721 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me that long to suspect something was up < 1303397415 377321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: they're sexiest < 1303397424 970385 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1303397427 408213 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that link doesn't seem to be opposed < 1303397439 11863 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's subjective < 1303397440 580685 :coppro!~scshunt@129.97.134.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word sexist is discriminatory against people who don't fall into traditional gender categorizations < 1303397449 253903 :coppro!~scshunt@129.97.134.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should all adopt 'genderist' < 1303397453 144639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the word sexiest isn't < 1303397461 723217 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :gynder < 1303397470 123504 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: so if i enjoy happy time with both men and women, i don't accept the feminity of women? < 1303397470 643388 :coppro!~scshunt@129.97.134.43 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YES IT IS NOW SHUT UP OKAY < 1303397494 840132 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to figure out why e linked to something e disagrees with < 1303397590 677356 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theneworder.org/hitler_phenom/hitler_was_right.html < 1303397628 771614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a website arguing that rape is awesome < 1303397632 882161 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitler is a fictional person < 1303397634 858077 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never existed < 1303397635 35489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not, it's sexiest) < 1303397637 132693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: what < 1303397653 225421 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1303397653 863528 NAMES :#esoteric < 1303397664 491933 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant > 1303397664 516252 NAMES :#esoteric < 1303397664 669294 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no KICK #esoteric crystal-cola :Obviously trolling < 1303397668 699135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'M SORRY I WAS TRYING TO BE FUNNY :((( < 1303397676 451235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: prepare to be flooded with "unban me" < 1303397688 758964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't really believe on most of history either < 1303397691 22307 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in < 1303397695 462280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you do it adorabnly. < 1303397696 687941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :adorbaly. < 1303397697 926378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303397699 998414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do words work < 1303397715 727944 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking words, how do they work/ < 1303397776 497256 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i asked my uncle and apparently it's "adorably" < 1303397793 60071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aboradly < 1303397797 313949 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303397798 572005 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :adorably < 1303397825 297573 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why won't crystal-cola answer me < 1303397831 71458 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1303397841 219324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: lol < 1303397841 398211 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches be bitches i guess :(( < 1303397881 570718 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there's a finnish song that is essentially that hitler was right page in finnish < 1303397882 793903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Adolf Hitler did die. But the good news is that He is not dead. He has been reborn—resurrected and transfigured. < 1303397884 710193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol is this a troll site < 1303397896 346485 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay maybe not < 1303397938 376337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA06tz1IIRM < 1303397951 795648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same lyrics < 1303397958 353995 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -b :*!*quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant > 1303397958 378533 NAMES :#esoteric < 1303397974 44529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just told em. :p < 1303397982 162773 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1303397994 893842 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :im wondering if hoover is gonna stop being a dick? < 1303397998 806026 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks crystal-cola  < 1303398006 448487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoover isn't being a dick. < 1303398013 716516 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chokes and dies from crystal-cola's sharp edges slicing up his throat < 1303398018 372432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not enough of a dick to get past the minimum skin-thickness of irc < 1303398028 634329 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he was being to me < 1303398038 134180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stand by my statements < 1303398047 309933 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now you are being a dick too < 1303398076 705133 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't have brought it up, ill just put him back on ignore and leave it < 1303398092 269636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not being a dick. < 1303398093 841188 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1303398093 863637 NAMES :#esoteric < 1303398097 236561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :persecution complex. < 1303398099 515842 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that being a dick to me is not being a dick < 1303398102 11654 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so much lols. < 1303398102 710850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1303398106 84262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i denied anyone was being a dick to you. < 1303398108 511604 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I interpreted it < 1303398129 134178 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ♥ #esoteric SO HARD :P < 1303398129 311645 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more dicks, just peace and love :) :) :) < 1303398131 597073 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not what you said, it's the way you said it < 1303398144 938030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: seriously, please answer < 1303398145 115460 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: How can we have peace and love with no dicks? :P < 1303398146 330913 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' < 1303398154 36700 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs crystal-cola  < 1303398160 866141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :```` < 1303398163 832802 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303398164 541539 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims < 1303398175 593172 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you stop not trolling and just answer < 1303398183 480589 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer what? < 1303398188 893188 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1303398195 494035 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't see a question either < 1303398207 468747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims < 1303398208 746281 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :374) anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims < 1303398210 122174 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity" <<< can you translate this to a language? < 1303398228 748078 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that's because you're a famous cobisexual < 1303398233 800213 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's (blatantly) bullshit < 1303398243 675385 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: trisexual! < 1303398247 884876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although bisexuality is just cobisexuality < 1303398261 647872 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike sursexuality < 1303398277 758041 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobibeef? < 1303398284 181458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullasexual < 1303398286 864372 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola, what is? < 1303398290 21012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :null...exual < 1303398292 993031 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is what? < 1303398295 595712 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: okay, good < 1303398298 244278 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit? < 1303398307 713161 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quote oklopol pasted < 1303398330 724783 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1303398332 125632 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bunch of garbage some idiot came up with to try to justify a false viewpoint they were entertaining < 1303398382 186996 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: can you translate whoever that was's opinion to a language then? < 1303398392 696742 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm intrigued by sentences that make no sense to me < 1303398395 194267 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "a language?"? < 1303398418 227489 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: it's a classy way to say "what does this sentence mean i don't get it" < 1303398429 905777 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any meaning there < 1303398433 531606 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1303398438 166474 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1303398480 516897 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can obviously try to invent some yourself - that's the main reason people say stuff that doesn't mean anything < 1303398592 707740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1303398613 722009 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningless things scare me, communication is so fragile < 1303398668 603484 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :A starting point might be to speak in abstract syntax rather than text < 1303398699 282008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: we09rjwerewrj0eg90esrgje0gj < 1303398705 110968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGHH < 1303398713 111083 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asguohreohgerag < 1303398727 468527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: iogjiodfgodjgdofjgiog < 1303398731 262712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was that old suffix < 1303398777 992122 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot remember < 1303398852 328543 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was thinking hey mc day and then no mc and now i have nothign < 1303398858 410167 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nothing < 1303398868 677965 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life is meaningless atm < 1303398871 823071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you could play < 1303398872 333281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mc < 1303398873 600448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :single player < 1303398889 584026 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck that shit. wait. that's actually a great idea! < 1303398902 400906 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i need you famous bisexuals anyway :D < 1303398913 985609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you too oklopo < 1303398914 504613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: < 1303398916 592737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1303398916 940573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aishu < 1303398935 149486 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any good projects on the go? < 1303398950 408326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome math projects < 1303398954 64683 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1303398958 778063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my five hundred and ten byte forth almost has a compiler... < 1303398962 859082 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned a bit about algebraic topology < 1303398981 477368 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the number of bytes mean? < 1303398987 253938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to characterize the CA commuting with a given bipermutive automaton < 1303398997 86902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine code. it's a standard-PC-architecture boot sector. < 1303398999 173600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dependencies. < 1303399008 453583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i use an assembler. but no dependencies in the result. < 1303399009 148917 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's cool < 1303399025 482870 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did linear ones with a uni friend and we have a small result that applies to all < 1303399033 228457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say forth, it's barely anything like forth because i don't care how semantically ridiculous i make it < 1303399036 621475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's small < 1303399043 116969 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TC, right? :P < 1303399047 280287 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the terminology about automatons < 1303399050 464629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: On a PC? :P < 1303399063 129141 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TC-BOUNDED-MEMORY BLURP WELCOME TO ENGLISH < 1303399074 285854 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: permutive CA = changing any single value in the neighborhood used changes the output < 1303399083 128689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, no, that is not TC at all :P < 1303399100 131146 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes yes and the universe has bounded matter so we DEAL WITH IT. < 1303399101 936929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're at the asm level, it's a pretty major distinction, because you pretty explicitly say "And this address is a WORD". < 1303399106 317247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so with e.g. Python. < 1303399108 897365 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if two configs differ in exactly one cell, on the nth step in the orbit they differ in the nth cells in both directions from that point < 1303399116 643232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, you don't know that :) < 1303399123 956190 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, assuming neighborhood {0, 1} < 1303399137 339877 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I do, I'm omniscient! < 1303399138 209253 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know anything about algebraic topology, except that it's apparently really really awesome < 1303399158 572371 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a good idea but the proofs are horrible < 1303399166 107521 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because the book I looked at sucks < 1303399175 925195 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: oh and here linear just means you have Z_n as the states, and the rule must compute a linear combination of what it sees in the neighborhood < 1303399178 762389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: how did that category theory go < 1303399193 681285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :commutation just means F(G(c)) = G(F(c)) for all configs < 1303399199 972239 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean? I typed out a bunch of shit then deleted it < 1303399219 630473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleted it? why < 1303399228 924675 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useless < 1303399239 291255 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned about cones and direct limits though < 1303399247 145227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not be useless to everyone. < 1303399276 503250 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should put lots of old code you've written up on the web < 1303399291 610290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just the way you phrased it < 1303399383 750003 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so there is a characterization for linear ones already? < 1303399395 35999 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: yes, proven by me and a uni friend < 1303399412 222070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch reddit is still down < 1303399414 987025 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwhat sort of description is it? < 1303399417 946857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least for n = prime, otherwise the rule may not be permutive < 1303399428 566022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: they're all linear or affine (affine = linear + constant) < 1303399446 473641 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious that linear ones commute with linear ones < 1303399456 124557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that nothing else does needed a small trick < 1303399469 101196 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(essentially nothing else) < 1303399490 590405 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303399491 492218 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you write a paper on it? < 1303399541 169948 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before we solve the affine ones at least < 1303399547 195827 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that's as easy) < 1303399561 605639 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1303399593 432363 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime i'm publishing other stuff < 1303399625 322833 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also pretty awesome, i proved the age old conjecture that NFA = FNFA which has been open for 20 years and thought about by at least 4 persons < 1303399640 777098 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1303399662 891178 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really :D < 1303399708 95731 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow a complexity class that isn't mentioned on complexity zoo < 1303399721 224736 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one's that < 1303399730 302557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remember left sets? < 1303399745 178804 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is FNFA? < 1303399764 870533 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized the other day that it's trivial to prove that there are no sparse NP-complete sets with respect to *many-to-one* reductions < 1303399771 33081 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to prove this at some point < 1303399771 210834 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, argh < 1303399779 885822 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not sure i've even mentioned them < 1303399801 634119 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the name < 1303399821 438818 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: FNFA is what i call the class of picture languages accepted by nondeterministic finite state automata that walk on the cells of given pictures, and are allowed to exit their domain < 1303399825 732833 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFA the same but not allowed < 1303399859 389091 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they equivalent? < 1303399868 736833 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay, well in any case i'm sure my explanation was rather unclear last time < 1303399874 536559 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: i don't have a short proof < 1303399889 704176 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1303399890 611266 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have two not that long proofs < 1303399902 315506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can link the article if and when i get it published < 1303400061 553598 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must feel good proving a theorem nobody proved before < 1303400103 922324 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably would if a large amount of people had actually tried and failed < 1303400111 957698 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just picked up random stuff from age old articles < 1303400124 86172 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the handbook of formal languages) < 1303400140 582969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but who the fuck has read the last book anyway) < 1303400168 340590 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me ... I wonder if Knuths new book is good < 1303400179 66147 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded kind of interesting < 1303400291 331073 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm the monster sounds < 1303400295 619600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so goddamn scary :( < 1303400314 404961 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't do anything when i hear them, i just stay still and pee my pants < 1303400419 206784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1303400422 138115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could mute it < 1303400649 442552 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know i could never do that < 1303400719 610679 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :###wwww### < 1303400724 143547 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :# wwww # < 1303400725 186539 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :# wwww # < 1303400727 897939 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :###wwww### < 1303400733 63204 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is dirt and w is water < 1303400733 240926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...w < 1303400741 568562 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the last line should have been ########## < 1303400745 108462 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can monsters spawn on a platform of size 1 :\ < 1303400748 239848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm there < 1303400749 461917 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build a house like that < 1303400750 677005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no :P < 1303400754 60882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think < 1303400754 930224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretiaclly < 1303400755 638117 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm not going down... < 1303400755 815692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303400756 320401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1303400757 393332 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1303400762 660215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1303400763 644944 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the sound of that theory < 1303400764 847007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, no < 1303400765 901566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1303400766 414270 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1303400766 770188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't fit :P < 1303400768 433764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done it before < 1303400768 782614 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1303400772 110733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw an awesome thing is: < 1303400776 494434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: build high tower < 1303400778 592976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build sky base < 1303400779 820014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :light it < 1303400781 765444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TADA < 1303400783 504969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sky base < 1303400784 557001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := floor < 1303400788 425374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ceiling or anything needed < 1303400796 109480 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build an under-lake house < 1303400830 708509 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to build a giant monument shaped like a famous bisexual < 1303400871 4386 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i suppose i found a dungeon because suddenly i started hearing scary during the day < 1303400882 314900 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i couldn't continue looking for coal < 1303400893 138290 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had to keep peeing myself < 1303400895 124798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if it's just whooshy noises and sirens and shit < 1303400896 165624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just means < 1303400899 826393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's dark within a few blocks of you < 1303400903 207368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. darkness underneath < 1303400909 811710 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was monster sounds < 1303400911 38416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually hear HRRRRNG or whatever, that's monsters. < 1303400915 388927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well it could jsut be darkness < 1303400918 216910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: was there WHOOSH osunds too? < 1303400920 998840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, yeah, spwaner. < 1303400931 70053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there was monster sounds, that's all i know < 1303400936 130902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303400951 165716 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SHIT WHAT IF THEY SHOOT ARROWS < 1303400953 609996 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FUCKING HELL < 1303400967 430086 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you miss a pun, a monster spawns < 1303401041 929611 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows are dangeous < 1303401051 694934 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i miss a pun? i don't want no monsters :\ < 1303401065 423401 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: thank you for telling me < 1303401074 564734 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pants were getting a bit too dry < 1303401074 742493 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: listen if you get hit by arrows you can die < 1303401083 520489 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's what the WHOOSH sounds are, duh < 1303401092 488192 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1303401120 778362 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaand it's raining < 1303401131 632625 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a chance of lightning nowadays? < 1303401133 546730 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :raining in minecraft?? < 1303401142 174181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303401152 546502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was raining irl, i'd be outside, running naked < 1303401159 517371 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was upset when they stopped wood from burning infinitely < 1303401169 133884 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that was a great party zone for free bacon < 1303401170 528247 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw some mention that there would be thunderstorms added to mc < 1303401198 721734 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is a theoretical minecraftologician < 1303401213 892333 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :u'u < 1303401214 935995 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303401218 595918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was either here, or in an r/all title < 1303401276 361940 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :URGH < 1303401281 939432 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I turn off "Acheivement get!" < 1303401282 156435 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1303401315 347758 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with acheivement get? < 1303401319 190078 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it < 1303401326 765499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone loves achievements! < 1303401331 982106 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me :/ < 1303401344 208439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :u so crazy! < 1303401377 171434 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is on hard but i'm not seeing any monsters < 1303401389 902191 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're PLOTTING < 1303401476 815472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph monsters < 1303401568 602938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so let L be in NP. then there's A in P and polynomial p such that x in L iff exists w in \Sigma^p(|x|) such that (x, w) in A < 1303401613 660197 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a theorem by D. F. Inition < 1303401623 474528 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very clever guy < 1303401625 963508 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303401699 727547 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow we now define the left set as Left(L, A, p) = {(x, y) | y \in \Sigma^p(|x|) and exists w such that y <= w, (x, w) in A} < 1303401718 514322 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so take A and close the right sides by lexicographic smallerness < 1303401734 219535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then note: Left is in NP < 1303401764 816128 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a theorem by O. Bivious < 1303401846 202802 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just giving you some definitions now so you'll have an easier time following later on < 1303401857 331791 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1303401860 745738 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303401862 348213 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303401877 65856 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1303402076 549810 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, we'll make a deal. you listen to this, and you can teach me whatever you want later on < 1303402436 170236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1303402439 497947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seosoeosoeoseoseosoeoseose < 1303402447 764013 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well look who came crawling back < 1303402489 775033 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1303402619 400932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: flour < 1303402624 436844 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303402792 364932 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "advanced opengl" < 1303402884 53760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite of retarded opengl? < 1303402898 928600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an mc term < 1303402922 460795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303402937 487085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it makes the taps into the computer phones. < 1303403059 148957 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303403106 816817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone else surprised at how little there is to do on the internet beside reddit? < 1303403110 356930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--reddit-downtime < 1303403129 977601 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true and disappointing < 1303403152 417653 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly feels that way < 1303403157 191825 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet had potential to be so good < 1303403162 241510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: internet is good. < 1303403177 151895 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's all just "download transformes II and mean girls" holywood movies < 1303403207 946775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1303403209 505605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1303403244 211563 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know what reddit is except that sometimes people link things through reddit, but the internet doesn't really have much to offer < 1303403252 844492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc < 1303403267 702795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you delete template:pre, it's angering the locals < 1303403269 616259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns. < 1303403270 875517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but i could just be out with my other awesome friends < 1303403274 135909 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a website (or whatever) for people that want to learn stuff? < 1303403290 596686 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YMT "Natives" HTH < 1303403296 141327 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want to learn quantum mechanics (for example) why can't I find a group of people that also want to? Using the internet < 1303403309 210021 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh great you're back! wanna learn more? < 1303403314 389078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: Usenet was a bit like that, before it was ruined < 1303403318 537624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: you almost certainly can on irc < 1303403321 584120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola, obviously because you don't actually want to, and instead want to bitch about it. > 1303403592 106210 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403612 123804 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403652 172279 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403697 233854 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403737 281371 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403777 334547 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403817 380756 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403857 433755 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403897 467512 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403937 520430 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303403982 580732 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404018 831498 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404058 892032 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404083 939840 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404114 9416 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404159 71769 JOIN :#esoteric > 1303404184 95913 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303404184 284629 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1303404184 474238 :sendak.freenode.net NOTICE #esoteric :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup < 1303404189 408986 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1303404203 272251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm... what. < 1303404208 588007 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was glogbot down. < 1303404275 732701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1303404278 742019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR WIREBY FLIES < 1303404333 126981 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats FireFly for obviously being responsible -----### < 1303404360 694386 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1303404399 549490 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1303404416 369971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where did the wire < 1303404417 279460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly by < 1303404419 549551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was none < 1303404420 499960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no glogbot < 1303404422 56487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tears-- < 1303404425 719377 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest49679 < 1303404432 567220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the guest < 1303404435 176773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :four nine six < 1303404436 734135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven nine < 1303404438 806862 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1303404482 912937 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why are people so stupid < 1303404486 632836 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is extremely simple < 1303404514 552951 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is asking how to prove a theorem that he doesn't even know how to state < 1303404522 638347 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why you can prove it ..? < 1303404565 465653 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lllllllllllllllol < 1303404613 248321 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyhow what we do is we do a binary search to find, given x, the lexicographically maximal witness, that is, the lexicographically biggest w such that (x, w) in A < 1303404672 386821 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we keep track of a set of disjoint intervals of strings, starting with {[0^p(|x|), 1^p(|x|)]}, such that if x is in L, then the biggest witness is in one of those intervals < 1303404713 702989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is it okay if i do it like this, in the course of the following 7 weeks? < 1303404965 201616 :Guest49679!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1303404971 521642 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yee haw >_> < 1303405005 345303 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real question is, wtf was glogbackup doing? < 1303405062 548726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn < 1303405232 98845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they added snakes or do spiders make a snake noise < 1303405295 706793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1303405326 950102 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it then? and what monster plays the xylophone? < 1303405368 447426 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088164227.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303405392 324471 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a skeleton monster might do that < 1303405473 747335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: xylophone is skeleton, yeah < 1303405481 74986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the snake sound probably is the spider slurp. < 1303405503 495349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's also the rattling of chains, i thought that might be a skeleton < 1303405517 884614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1303405518 534039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1303405521 553357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rattling of chains? < 1303405525 942878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably skeleton < 1303405526 166466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1303405528 152118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1303405528 654424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess < 1303405667 840846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooooo i found the dungeon i guess < 1303405676 360164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: keep the spawner maybe < 1303405680 249877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be used to make mob harvesters < 1303405691 708806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just surround it with shit on all sides nothing will spawn and you can loot the chest < 1303405692 588554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1303405741 414531 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have about one heart left < 1303405750 184177 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :should prolly wait till morning and hunt a bit < 1303406426 235421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303406439 192617 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh morning came and creeper stayed < 1303406489 529995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1303406489 811043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1303406491 232835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :creepers do that < 1303406525 497388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually only if you're near them in my experience < 1303406536 746898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i've never played with hard < 1303406603 537479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um no < 1303406606 310088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: creepers stay no matter what < 1303406607 9821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1303406611 119728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're really far away < 1303406613 180293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get despawned < 1303406615 631674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all mobs < 1303406623 759220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, creepers never die :P < 1303406639 598305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303406639 785841 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both of the creepers disappeared now and i never went that far from them < 1303406672 374278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it is just HIDDEN < 1303406693 662484 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a creeper do such a creepy thing < 1303406721 698912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD PH SUCKS < 1303406790 604252 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remember those creepers that disappeared? < 1303406797 353566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep? < 1303406798 404037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303406843 613160 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say AAAAAAAAAAAARGRHGHRARG < 1303406849 289295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1303406885 148684 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-200-249.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1303407037 243695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: summon ph plz < 1303407039 754817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with like < 1303407040 297569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic < 1303407056 601506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ph: stop being such a famous bisexual < 1303407151 641131 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303407158 902829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1303407161 612128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stopped being a famous bisexual < 1303407164 244391 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1303407169 738579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost had a heart attack < 1303407186 563755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303407187 465158 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a skeleton < 1303407190 219923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1303407191 179847 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumped in front of me < 1303407192 948809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thort cuz of ph < 1303407194 909142 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ph < 1303407203 428689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if this was the server we'd come and give you armour and protect you < 1303407206 248075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't so hahahahahah die < 1303407231 26321 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, i can't do shit to that thing < 1303407231 818925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303407237 684968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have a: sord < 1303407240 335313 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303407240 836301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a: armor < 1303407245 15066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a: armor? < 1303407245 202696 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no :DPS < 1303407249 606225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1303407252 6508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go kill some pigs or some iron < 1303407253 215414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303407254 814932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill some iron < 1303407258 513940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fashion it into iron corpse armor < 1303407271 642734 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is the guy is in water < 1303407278 252272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's not a dungeon after all < 1303407304 300205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waternjeon < 1303407308 485668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... lasted about a second down there < 1303407315 459271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was... fun < 1303407322 968429 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Go kill some *yourself* < 1303407346 612561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i respawn during the night and a creeper blows up in front of me within 5 seconds < 1303407346 800176 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303407385 583371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303407441 143431 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game is kind of hard :D < 1303407475 45959 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303407486 494259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wanna know a tip < 1303407490 164206 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303407498 543192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you get a bed (make sure it has two blocks before the outside world, i.e. not right against your one-thick wall) < 1303407502 783785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then if you get in at the start of a night < 1303407504 662730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it skips the whole night < 1303407506 302743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no monsters spawn < 1303407515 541886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheating? absolutely, but there's still monsters underground < 1303407519 22073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a relief? fuck yes < 1303407737 292567 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaaa that was fun, survived at least a minute, an arrow going past every 2 seconds :D < 1303407751 171697 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i dropped into a hole, couldn't see anything < 1303407800 127732 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@78.88.164.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303408483 849304 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-200-249.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303408562 231591 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i finally found back and jumped in the dungeon, and there were no monsters. so i was alone with a monster spawner and couldn't get back up < 1303408564 611361 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was... fun < 1303408606 927495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303408681 186506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had no dirt or anything because i didn't know there really was a monster spawner and didn't want to lose anything if i die < 1303408764 930379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lose all that precious dirt < 1303408777 373189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeeeeeeah < 1303408779 562911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise you can get stuff back for about five minutes < 1303408781 272668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run quick < 1303408783 986762 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, ... < 1303408808 710270 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah jump back in the monster spawner hole < 1303408904 741629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303408906 63905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1303409036 767154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how would you do an "are you sure? yes/no" prompt in bash? < 1303409184 837679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "Are you sure? "; read answer; if [ "[dollar]answer" [excl.]= "y" ]; then echo nm; exit; fi; ... < 1303409194 697062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want to handle Y and yes and Yes too :P < 1303409204 886057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Using grep, say) < 1303409330 715440 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :##categorytheory - most boring channel ever < 1303409358 232602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with read -n1 -p"Are you sure? (y/n) " && echo && test x$REPLY = xy || exit < 1303409358 420228 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are bones good for? < 1303409398 659183 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: i idled there for a few days, earlier, and there was some monologue by augur about some CT stuff < 1303409399 939172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try select < 1303409404 418789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: bonemeal < 1303409407 168857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, least known keyword of bash < 1303409428 966811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: xfoo = xy? < 1303409429 806891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1303409434 476537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever heard of double quotes? < 1303409451 716627 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@78.88.164.227 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303409457 274704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's standard < 1303409458 804654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Bone_Meal < 1303409461 223897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it isn't < 1303409462 534529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because test is confused by empty arguments < 1303409464 883876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's standard if this is the 90s < 1303409467 673506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1303409506 360015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /especially/ not if this is bash-specific < 1303409517 969548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since test is a built-in < 1303409522 308679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you try select? < 1303409523 729414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, why not use [ ... ] instead?) < 1303409544 617366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : because test is confused by empty arguments <-- good reason to use [[ ]] yes < 1303409546 886548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find test easier to read < 1303409550 866271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also As of Beta 1.4, bones are used to tame wild wolves. More than one bone will need to be used on the wolf in most cases. Bone Meal cannot be used to tame wolves. < 1303409555 935936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: except it _isn't_ < 1303409563 516055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is unless you quote them < 1303409564 964811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me a bash version where, with proper quoting, test fails on empty arguments < 1303409566 855727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is < 1303409568 544788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't quote them < 1303409571 194569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not empty arguments < 1303409574 186968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just whitespace < 1303409575 244260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1303409579 999598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does nobody _understand_ how the shell works? < 1303409586 333590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an argument against the shell's syntax, not test < 1303409592 590930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. < 1303409670 344353 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :im watching this guys videos about how angles and stuff are wrong < 1303409691 845045 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~norman/views2.htm < 1303409727 381496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever listen to people who say things are right < 1303409755 578790 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1303409769 697444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The `Axioms' are first of all unintelligible unless you are already a trained mathematician." < 1303409776 407192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's relevant to the foundation of formalised mathematics, absolutely < 1303409778 367380 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah anti-axiomatics is kind of a cool view < 1303409785 876004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really? < 1303409814 674013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1303409833 931953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, the attitude that "deduction from axioms is all that is necessary" is not a very constructive one. < 1303409848 301258 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :every does math based on axioms, or at least they think they are doing so < 1303409850 843154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: when did i say that < 1303409877 328492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: let me summarise that article for you < 1303409892 107116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is a bit unintuitive at first glance, because i said so. i bet you don't understand it. therefore it's wrong" < 1303409898 856256 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1303409999 189739 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has some good points abuot angles < 1303410009 657223 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically do trigonometry without calculus < 1303410014 606598 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not do that? < 1303410040 594447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste of time? < 1303410043 204259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way he says "the axiom of infinity is clearly rubbish, it doesn't define what an infinite set is" when the reason it doesn't do that is because he stripped out the definition. < 1303410088 99768 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean normal things like angles and trigonometry can only be rigorously done in terms of calculus < 1303410101 429193 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you usally learn these things before learning enough calculus to justify them < 1303410105 110293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they can? < 1303410120 247160 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you are going to do trigonometry at all why do it in that way? Since there is an easier way < 1303410132 156891 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that isn't founded on more advanced mathematics < 1303410141 581942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean: one that isn't founded on anything formal at all. < 1303410151 624838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think crystal-cola understands how rigour works. < 1303410158 4327 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :both can be made completely rigorous < 1303410169 353453 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference is how much work it takes < 1303410222 138850 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" you can basically do trigonometry without calculus" <<< because it's no fun < 1303410262 545107 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ...they can?" <<< what? < 1303410286 793388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that, but I suppose it makes a bit of sense. < 1303410298 813496 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: another difference is you're not doing math, eventually you might disagree with someone. < 1303410305 101039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, erm, what is it with you and needing everything to be completely rigorous? < 1303410317 220432 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ?? < 1303410347 478857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: er, because not being rigorous is not fun? < 1303410349 987407 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said it < 1303410363 237037 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :real ultimate rigor comes in #agda < 1303410372 175675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not sure that's at all universal among mathematicians. < 1303410375 635325 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :tedium is fun! < 1303410380 325310 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tedium is not at all fun < 1303410384 654274 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it < 1303410388 834133 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're crazy < 1303410391 414133 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303410393 143574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1303410393 883645 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303410398 483506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1303410400 283185 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean oklopol < 1303410402 242945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure it's typical. < 1303410402 662882 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like automatinc/abstracting over tedium < 1303410404 72517 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can love whatever you want < 1303410413 532047 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: mean by what? < 1303410416 741791 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:24 < oklopol> crystal-cola: another difference is you're not doing math, eventually you might disagree with someone. < 1303410425 401150 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about axiom-free mathematics? < 1303410433 830835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well that's the reason we do math based on axioms: people cannot disagree < 1303410439 720354 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lovely < 1303410450 429488 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :people can disagree... if at least one of them is wrong < 1303410454 888198 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can reject your axioms < 1303410459 908031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've never ever seen that happen < 1303410461 47931 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell you you're living a lie < 1303410472 277573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when crystal-cola said the trolling was over :D < 1303410473 617515 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an ultrahyperfinitist < 1303410478 226564 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you can reject my axioms all you want, i'm not claiming they are correct < 1303410484 966474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i'm so ultrafinitist I don't even believe in two < 1303410488 345769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am therefore a solipsist < 1303410490 995576 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, but I can try to make you feel bad for wasting your life! < 1303410498 404578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all my sentences, of which there is only one, are composed out of one word with one letter < 1303410516 269637 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the purpose of this kind of arguments, a mathematician should be a formalist < 1303410520 622779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*every < 1303410541 770926 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you always talk about finitism? < 1303410548 910672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* copumpkin is an ultrahyperfinitist < 1303410551 680821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin is the one that brought it up < 1303410558 919773 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always talk about it < 1303410562 269285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't < 1303410566 519265 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do < 1303410572 478348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see the ban taught you nothing < 1303410586 25492 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the logs if you don't remember < 1303410586 647669 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an avid follower of norman wildberger < 1303410619 574236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: in any case that's not my actual argument against axiom-free geometry, my argument is i don't get anything out of it, because i don't know what we're talking about. < 1303410630 213375 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You talk about finitism all the time, I wonder why because you're obviously not actually a finitist < 1303410637 817292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: no, I do not < 1303410639 982550 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Basically you're trolling. Why do you keep doing it? < 1303410654 801381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame oerjan isn't around right now. < 1303410665 650781 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i get something out of it < 1303410683 208848 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:19:52 I'm starting the Order of Ultrafinitist Programmers, we code exclusively in lookup tables < 1303410684 538829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't have that taste of exciting sexiness that set theory based math has < 1303410686 210199 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday < 1303410692 698096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in axiom-free geometry, wouldn't everything be false? < 1303410694 52170 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :You brought up finitism < 1303410697 705546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a little pointless and degeneraet < 1303410698 538581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: please just shut up. < 1303410699 797680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*degenerate < 1303410702 646857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I missing the point? < 1303410706 467465 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I proved you wrong? Okay < 1303410717 662839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i assume axiom-free geometry means doing geometry like kids do it < 1303410729 214790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, I see < 1303410737 894009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kids have lots of axioms, much more than just four or five < 1303410746 543196 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1303410748 102425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything they know is treated like an axiom, pretty much < 1303410754 957810 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: People are having a serious discussion about metamathematics. Stop telling me off for not doing anything wrong and trolling about finitism and just generally being an ass. < 1303410896 251090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: there is no serious discussion, there is just you being a dick and trolling again, whether intentionally or not < 1303410902 790372 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the point is axiomatizing geometry directly is really tedious, and it was not long ago that they discovered that a crucial axiom (which had been used tons of times) was missing from the usual axiom set; and doing it the calculus way, talking about R^n, requires a lot of (")advanced(") math < 1303410913 199648 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wrong < 1303410917 308839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's something pretty much everyone agrees with < 1303410931 679134 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any sort of explicit axioms < 1303410951 807103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what axiom was that? < 1303410962 734707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola, shut up. < 1303410985 976915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't recall, it was mentioned in our geometry course (the least formal course we have in the whole university) < 1303410992 42698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: fsvo wrong < 1303411004 232743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it works when you /ignore everyone who disagrees, though < 1303411012 72224 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :something pretty simple like if you have a point and a line, there's a closest point on the line or something < 1303411018 500273 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303411026 839307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: crystal-cola, shut up. < 1303411035 388706 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I'll /ignore you too < 1303411043 668275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so surprised < 1303411044 397723 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops us arguing as a bonus < 1303411049 930317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long until you're ignoring three fourths of the channel again < 1303411052 228225 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll see if i can find it < 1303411141 954122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this system is so bizarrely broken that /etc/mtab was replaced by NetHack's helpfile < 1303411153 238074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1303411154 44471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what is /etc/mtab normally? < 1303411423 959404 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1303411627 622170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for your logreading pleasure: a single step of the algorithm splits all the intervals in two, which means that in a polynomial amount of steps w.r.t. |x| (because strings are of length p(|x|)), we have that every interval is of size 1. of course, i haven't really told you why we're writing an algorithm, maybe i'll do that later. < 1303411755 896927 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-133.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1303411756 84592 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-133.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1303411756 84763 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1303411931 632250 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1303411932 212302 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1303411968 658663 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sometime in their second or third year, a dramatic change happens in the training of aspiring pure mathematicians. They start being introduced to the idea of rigorous thinking and proofs, and gradually become aware that they are not at the peak of intellectual achievement, but just at the foothills of a very onerous climb." < 1303411992 926418 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :second/third year? lol < 1303412037 13212 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got introduced to anything rigorous in my math courses < 1303412053 460566 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sad < 1303412055 480825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've mentioned < 1303412059 370410 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine, I am able to supply my own rigor < 1303412072 289371 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do think "normal" students cannot < 1303412128 924466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you suppose the curriculum at this point has time or inclination to return to the material they learnt in public school and high school, and finally organize it properly? When we start to get really picky about logical correctness, doesn't it make sense to go back and ensure that all those subjects that up to now have only been taught in a loose and cavalier fashion get a proper rigorous treatment? < 1303412131 684551 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this the appropriate time to finally learn what a number in fact is, why exactly the laws of arithmetic hold, what the correct definitions of a line and a circle are, what we mean by a vector, a function, an area and all the rest? You might think so, but there are two very good reasons why this is nowhere done. < 1303412147 683349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't teach people what functions actually are? :D < 1303412158 462607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this guy's problem is he went to a zoo instead of a university < 1303412160 461882 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Nobody ever taught me what a function was < 1303412182 699484 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think you are very lucky to have been taught things properly - I am a sample of 1 but I don't think it's normal < 1303412204 567928 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function from X to Y is a subset S of XxY such that for all x, there is exactly one y such that (x, y) is in S, this is one of the first sentences in every book and lecture notes < 1303412218 477044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think I've been formally taught what functions are either < 1303412228 33045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I picked it up quite quickly (it helps that my father knew the actual definition) < 1303412243 144169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a computer science department, if you're missing something that basic you ask someone and learn it very quickly < 1303412277 941652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i haven't seen a more tedious definition than that, that is, most definitions are based on set&tuple theory instead of set theory < 1303412418 150052 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first reason is that even the professors mostly don't know! They too have gone through a similar indoctrination, and never had to prove that multiplication is associative" < 1303412423 428806 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1303412425 329445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303412438 417496 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only had my first real math class this year. < 1303412506 741737 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ask them just what a fraction is, or how to properly define an angle, or whether a polynomial is really a function or not, and see what kind of non-uniform rambling emerges!" < 1303412508 241526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1303412516 926387 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was weird < 1303412523 260363 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone disagreed with me in #haskell and I didn't get banned < 1303412525 464179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whether a polynomial is really a function or not" < 1303412530 379472 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1303412543 555397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, oerjan's not here. < 1303412551 188067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is he when you need someone banned. < 1303412559 87070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff is explained in painstaking detail in like 4 courses here < 1303412594 482494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...are they not functions? < 1303412596 861840 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah seriously I think you just go to an exceptionally good university < 1303412606 522994 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally none of this stuff gets talked about < 1303412613 180689 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the problem is they can be both. < 1303412640 685291 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have say a ring you can define a formal polynomial ring < 1303412653 258814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then obviously you can also associate a function to each of those polynomials < 1303412661 598722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mind is blown < 1303412701 604384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have any idea how to remount / readonly on a system while it's running? < 1303412710 773946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't you remount /? < 1303412714 874427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount -o ro,remount / or whatever < 1303412716 613299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in a throwaway VM, so it doesn't matter if it screws up < 1303412720 623231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that, it said "/ is busy" < 1303412725 735093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was pretty inevitable, really < 1303412726 223784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: force it < 1303412729 873061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1303412735 601958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, _can_ you force it < 1303412737 82153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check < 1303412742 572459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I could < 1303412755 170958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303412755 840779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: from what i understand we're better than average, but we don't even get in the top 100. < 1303412756 28433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? < 1303412759 649822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f < 1303412760 589731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no force options in mount(one) < 1303412763 749494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it top even more < 1303412768 770057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er < 1303412774 138861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -f, --fake < 1303412774 579670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Causes everything to be done except for the actual system call; if it's not obvious, this ``fakes'' mounting the filesystem. This option is useful in conjunc‐ < 1303412774 767465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tion with the -v flag to determine what the mount command is trying to do. It can also be used to add entries for devices that were mounted earlier with the -n < 1303412774 767656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : option. The -f option checks for existing record in /etc/mtab and fails when the record already exists (with regular non-fake mount, this check is done by ker‐ < 1303412775 558661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's not a force option at all < 1303412775 746278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : nel). < 1303412777 723342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FAIL :) < 1303412792 768051 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter how math is taught < 1303412802 356297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more amusingly, it seemed to have worked < 1303412803 897595 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're smart you'll probably prove good theorems no matter what < 1303412831 683785 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, i wouldn't know < 1303412852 232417 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm not smart < 1303412878 896784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, FFS, stop talking to him. < 1303412936 884486 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sorry, can't please everyone < 1303412958 23145 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have nothing against cc < 1303412960 823403 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not much anyway < 1303412969 602070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably nothing at all < 1303412970 419366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: FUCKING CREEPER AMBUSHED ME FROM ABOVE < 1303412975 661388 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1303412985 630506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :must've been one famous bisexual < 1303412987 21123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, only when you work inside someone else's screen(1) do you realise how much you use control-a for start-of-line < 1303413071 282894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'an infinite set is a collection of mathematical objects which isn't finite' xD < 1303413078 542558 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck kind of definition is that :D < 1303413141 987541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite set is a set which is infinite < 1303413146 636701 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1303413156 986748 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not finite, LOL :D < 1303413160 26054 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to like the taste of mouthwash < 1303413170 79986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, that's a good definition right there < 1303413179 44706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and a finite set is one without an infinite number of elements < 1303413185 43422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, finite is probably easier to define than infinite, without circularity < 1303413195 832283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set is finite if it has no elements, or one more element than some finite set < 1303413204 721420 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Have you looked at my unicode identifiers function by the way? I'm pretty proud of its sheer degree of horror :P < 1303413205 1414 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, lemme pull it up now < 1303413205 188982 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : omg < 1303413205 189169 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : you are insane < 1303413205 189277 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8-D < 1303413214 840850 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :category of finite sets < 1303413217 623795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not _that_ much of a horrible hack :P < 1303413217 881044 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: infinite sets are usually defined as sets containing a proper subset for which there is a bijection with the original set < 1303413230 250139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: does that work even without the axiom of choice? < 1303413232 37967 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Later: that's actually just insane enough to feel right at home in Narcissus ;) < 1303413235 569000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In a language with an eval that took an AST rather than a string, it might even elegant :P < 1303413238 858300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]even be < 1303413250 528633 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definition of infinite set works without choice < 1303413253 217703 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the definition certainly works < 1303413268 625884 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhh, in a language with an eval that took an AST instead of a string, it wouldn't work. < 1303413269 721655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I mean, it might mark some infinite sets as not infinite < 1303413277 416188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the inability to chose an arbitrary such subset < 1303413279 885206 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unless it did identifier validation over the AST for no real reason. < 1303413286 319910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure it would, if you can construct an identifier node from a string. < 1303413291 434339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you'd just do that X-D < 1303413295 433761 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an axiom that gives you one element, and you have an axiom that lets you drop everything except that < 1303413302 783536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Infinite sets are those which have at least as many elements as the natural numbers. The natural numbers are defined as the smallest infinite set. < 1303413334 220470 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but about this stuff, the prof is certainly right in my case. < 1303413348 659548 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good for him because it's his main point < 1303413356 898526 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway axiom-free mathematics is to just brush aside since axiomatization is "solved". Look at Eulers papers < 1303413509 956792 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: Infinite sets are those which have at least as many elements as the natural numbers. The natural numbers are defined as the smallest infinite set." <<< who says there's nothing between |N| and the finite sets though? :) < 1303413527 525090 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say a subset of N that's not finite but not in bijection with N either < 1303413528 208460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nobody. that's the magic of mathematics. < 1303413545 402074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why CONSTRAIN yourself? < 1303413600 737710 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very hard to prove with the tools i have, but the tools i have are not what are usually taken as the axioms < 1303413601 567452 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :"subsets of N" is a difficult notionn < 1303413625 845699 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: in what sense? < 1303413627 375298 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider permutations of N, is a subset of N just the first n elements of a permutation? < 1303413650 353733 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with my definitions < 1303413654 105725 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly the finite sets < 1303413657 152527 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*definition < 1303413663 961914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, finite subsets < 1303413685 590297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all subsets of N are finite, because they only have SOME of its elements, and N is the smallest infinite set < 1303413686 380227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qed < 1303413695 689532 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :well even in the finite case it's awkward becuase of "wild" permutations < 1303413722 347149 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1303413756 16600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no single permutation is all that wild < 1303413771 355971 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is bijected to some n_1, 2 is bijected to some n_2... < 1303413796 880701 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qchu.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/i-dont-trust-uncountable-sets/ < 1303414037 227621 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one of the difficulties is, let S be a subset of N then consider the obvious bijection 1 -> first element of S, 2 -> second element, ... < 1303414052 265567 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all infinite sets S lead to functions that grow so fast... < 1303414064 183788 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :much faster than busy beaver < 1303414075 604977 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and? < 1303414096 311711 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast growing functions are a bitch, ever studied logic? < 1303414109 161132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : you have an axiom that gives you one element <--- ah, that's the axiom I was missing < 1303414113 770950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know sets from the axioms < 1303414115 454228 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303414115 659077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: exponentiation ain't total don'tchaknow < 1303414124 118604 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much, what's bitchy about fast growing functions? < 1303414132 408832 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just really difficult < 1303414144 267823 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult? < 1303414149 557243 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rate of growth of a function is the sort of thing you need stronger and stronger axioms to deal tih < 1303414152 436702 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :with < 1303414152 624319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's difficult about them, you don't need to do anything about them < 1303414179 672651 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1303414183 264529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just define a subset Y of X as a set such that y \in Y implies y \in X, and see what happens < 1303414183 451955 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can't prove ackermann terminates in weak logics.. you need something extra < 1303414190 952075 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1303414192 88451 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same phenomenon happens all the time throughout < 1303414212 291977 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: and what does that have to do with anything? slow-growing functions can be bitches in the exact same sense. < 1303414227 357564 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that problems about them can be hard to solve < 1303414234 530736 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's true < 1303414250 280621 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying I can prove false with this, I know it all works out fine in ZFC < 1303414353 480876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is just great, he lists the zermelo-fraenkel axioms without giving the predicate and propositional logic axioms, and then says "look at these silly axioms referring to meaningless things" < 1303414377 769375 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303414385 841555 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1303414425 883460 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: More Portal 2! < 1303414436 862765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in what sense are those axioms complicated < 1303414451 875261 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's non-trivial that they are independent < 1303414453 361339 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a star < 1303414454 60759 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1303414463 330373 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their proof theoretic strength is also quite high < 1303414478 629219 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lot up with them < 1303414480 80010 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every nonempty set has a minimal element, that is one which does not contain another in the set." is the only thing that i find unintuitive apart from the stuff that's undefined, and that's a pretty useless axiom anyway < 1303414497 797635 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: no one's claiming they're independent < 1303414515 606169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is being claimed is that they are hard to understand / unintelligible < 1303414555 522463 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :well personally I ahve no trouble using them < 1303414576 660646 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about others, I wouldn't claim everyone else finds them hard but I wouldn't be surprised < 1303414583 909859 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have trouble learning the axioms of group theory... < 1303414668 442354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the initial/final stuff is even more confusing when it comes to categories < 1303414691 508242 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that confusing? < 1303414709 628641 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial = exactly one arrow from, per object; final = exactly one arrow to, per object < 1303414711 272605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely convinced your axiom is correct either < 1303414722 790920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what axiom? < 1303414728 777535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i pasted? < 1303414732 467412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimal element one < 1303414737 278379 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303414739 116680 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the axiom of foundation < 1303414752 305516 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's correct in the sense that it's in the ZFC axiom set < 1303414757 25182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pretty useless axiom < 1303414767 183894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, you don't need it for... well, anything < 1303414767 914257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1303414768 194219 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone want to tell me how crap my C code is? http://twitcode.org/show/265/easter-sunday < 1303414803 92010 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: int main(int argc, char** argv) < 1303414810 820558 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: and return EXIT_SUCCESS; < 1303414827 472015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loath this time of the year. < 1303414901 592214 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks crystal-cola :-) Apart from that have I done anything stupid? < 1303414913 618528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, int main(void) would work too < 1303414927 800767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, is this C99 or C89? < 1303414934 29713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: crystal-cola is wrong < 1303414937 699431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() is perfectly acceptable < 1303414940 92344 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I think you need to check if scanf worked < 1303414940 570273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both versions of C < 1303414942 119253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1303414951 625635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is C99, you can actually skip returning a value at the end of main < 1303414952 478379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return EXIT_SUCCESS; is pointless verbosity < 1303414955 338097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXIT_SUCCESS is defined to be 0 < 1303414958 257548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so return 0; is fine < 1303414961 59207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what Vorpal said < 1303414981 995155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I tend to leave it in, even in C99 < 1303414988 111211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: But i suggest you take the year as a command-line argument, not on stdin. < 1303414992 824731 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have the K&R book (first edition) so I guess it's pre C89 :-) < 1303415008 326666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1303415024 402080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, actually "void easter(int year, int *month, int *date)" looks like ANSI C to me < 1303415068 608988 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I had to do that to keep the compiler happy < 1303415076 640314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, XD < 1303415083 287198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easter(y,m,d) int *m, int *d; < 1303415086 337473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH K AND R < 1303415090 886650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1303415093 56298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeeeahhh.... no < 1303415093 442841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :easter(y,m,d) int *m, *d; < 1303415094 826738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN BETTER < 1303415107 420147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about y? < 1303415113 524097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is implicit < 1303415114 574534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b < 1303415136 661620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't say I have coded any pre-C89 C :P < 1303415157 150861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is actually valid ansi c too to assume that. dunno < 1303415161 696375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure "auto x;" declares x as int anyway < 1303415200 207105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm possibly < 1303415208 806191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, auto, the least useful keyword in C < 1303415222 604946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misspelled most awesome < 1303415241 944121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when did you last use it in code you wrote? < 1303415242 965345 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303415247 872146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THE TIME < 1303415252 633895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiight < 1303415274 580572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, especially when golfing right? < 1303415282 359857 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c auto i;printf("I'm so glad I made %d be auto instead of static!\n", i); < 1303415290 429022 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: OH NOOOOO < 1303415300 188176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot: AT LEAST YOU SURVIVE < 1303415414 218875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to start a group that MICROWAVES FOOD for FAR TOO LONG for SCIENCE. < 1303415425 647362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you put hot chocolate in the microwave for two hours?????????? < 1303415447 415564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, get it back up1 < 1303415450 651375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/1/!/ < 1303415452 55170 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Charcoal? < 1303415460 995016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT < 1303415488 761746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that if you put it in for about twelve minutes you get a liquid completely coated in thick skin that retracts and expands in wrinkles rapidly and constantly for minutes afterwards. < 1303415493 931835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now that you are comfortable with the definition of real numbers, perhaps you would like to know how to do arithmetic with them? How to add them, and multiply them? And perhaps you might want to check that once you have defined these operations, they obey the properties you would like, such as associativity etc. Well, all I can say is---good luck. If you write this all down coherently, you will certainly be the first to have done so." < 1303415494 119482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the most disturbing experience of my life. < 1303415495 421383 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... < 1303415496 241780 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1303415498 421419 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grapes in the microwave? < 1303415506 1292 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303415509 510192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... bizarre, I have no idea why it was down at all ... < 1303415514 849663 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c auto i;printf("I'm so glad I made %d be auto instead of static!\n", i); < 1303415515 37347 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today we melted glass in the microwave... Took about 15 minutes < 1303415518 79752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Well, I was thinking things you'd usually put in the microwave, just not for that long, but sure :P < 1303415519 889409 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad I made 0 be auto instead of static! < 1303415522 820753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ever further in the cauchy sequence and prove stuff on rationals, then show convergence and independence of representative < 1303415535 478106 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's standard stuff < 1303415547 107010 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's done it :\ < 1303415549 136883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORRIDGE AFTER FORTY-EIGHT HOURS IN THE MICROWAVE: ??? < 1303415570 345178 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that bit is weird, it's trivial to show that stuff corrrect... you just need a single non-constructive step (checking if a real number is zero or not) < 1303415577 924927 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott after six weeks in the microwave: ?!?! < 1303415582 322061 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :for division < 1303415590 983224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: After ONE THOUSAND YEARS IN THE MICROWAVE: ... < 1303415601 422149 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so not sure what is meant by that paragraph.. < 1303415607 261606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Oh look. It has decomposed into quarks." < 1303415609 651792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They are burnt." < 1303415615 921775 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, plus microwave, after the heat death of the universe: ???????????? < 1303415626 580964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1303415628 981471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested microwaving. < 1303415630 449943 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: yeah dunno, i think i really just like to complain < 1303415632 149810 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :;:D < 1303415638 539257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put regular-sized microwave in extra-large microwave. Start something in the inner microwave. < 1303415640 999009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close outer door. Start it. < 1303415642 250816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1303415644 618476 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microwaves protect against microwave ovens. < 1303415646 854816 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1303415649 477941 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microwaves protect against microwave radiation. < 1303415653 168856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303415663 326505 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEREFORE: Baby in inner microwave, inner microwave in outer microwave, SAFE BABY. < 1303415673 855843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, until air runs out < 1303415683 75220 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SAFE < 1303415700 633713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PUT THE BABY IN THE NESTED MICROWAVE < 1303415720 552141 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can put it in the even microwaves < 1303415730 991189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would the inner microwave be battery powered? While the inner micro would most probably survive being microed, the AC cable to it would not < 1303415747 401419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let's just say yes. < 1303415755 645467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its plate would spin in the opposite direction. < 1303415756 979451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL BABY < 1303415767 967820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a microwave would not survive another microwave < 1303415770 987689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, its plate would spin in the opposite direction. <-- would it? < 1303415772 127829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the actual microwave oven itself... yeah :P < 1303415777 157737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get sorta destroyed. < 1303415780 607216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd make sure it did. < 1303415796 895753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so the inner one would in fact then not rotate at all? < 1303415806 335194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO "not rotate" < 1303415819 663308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I think the actual oven itself would be the thing at risk :P < 1303415824 473065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : a microwave would not survive another microwave <-- why? As Gregor said, " Microwave [ovens] protect against microwave radiation." < 1303415835 132051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUTTER AFTER SIX HOURS IN THE MICROWAVE: ??? < 1303415859 820512 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but they have a lot of control circuitry which is supposed to be protected from the INSIDE microwaves, not OUTSIDE microwaves. < 1303415864 439647 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: hey i remember this classic line from my last reading of this < 1303415865 789325 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Think clearly about the subject for a few days, and you will see that the computable real numbers are not countable , and are complete. Think for a few more days, and you will be able to see how to make these statements without any reference to `infinite sets', and that this suffices for Cantor's proof that not all irrational numbers are algebraic. < 1303415866 53561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1303415866 329780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely :P < 1303415878 218499 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a subtle one < 1303415898 147911 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computable reals are countable if you consider them as computter programs < 1303415903 807168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Yeah, but they have a lot of control circuitry which is supposed to be protected from the INSIDE microwaves, not OUTSIDE microwaves. <-- oh, true < 1303415906 291681 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cantors diagonalization still works < 1303415917 985296 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it all depends if you're "inside" or "outside" the theory < 1303415919 743095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so you could make every other nested microwave work < 1303415920 635032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cantor's microwaved diagonalisation. < 1303415928 565501 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol X-D < 1303415935 334172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303415939 182882 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russian nesting microwaves. < 1303415941 483009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god we must nest these microwaves for science. < 1303415948 882309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to buy some gigantic fucking industrial microwaves. < 1303415965 651168 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystal-cola: sure, but there's something funny about "think clearly", because it means "think about it the way i like to". < 1303415966 971309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT IN A MICROWAVE: ??? < 1303415974 560558 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1303415976 410242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, of course, that is a an obvious logical extension of the theoretical framework for microwave nesting we developed above < 1303416009 366838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : TNT IN A MICROWAVE: ??? <-- I think it wouldn't explode. TNT iirc another charge to set it off? < 1303416019 256280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. Dynamite? I NEED AN UNSTABLE EXPLOSIVE < 1303416030 186553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL LIKE CLUBS DEUCE < 1303416033 965769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dynamite wouldn't either < 1303416035 315952 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thermite! < 1303416040 474854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't dynamite made of TNT? < 1303416047 338874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YESSS < 1303416049 883787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thermite would, and nitroglycerin would < 1303416050 143815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERMITE IN NESTED MICROWAVES < 1303416054 933822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY BAND HAS THEIR NEXT MUSIC VIDEO < 1303416056 225270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, nitroglycerin < 1303416065 202181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, with something to stabilise it? < 1303416099 609925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, another material (forgot which one, some rare earth iirc), is soaked in it < 1303416117 387871 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think a company could get away with selling a microwave the size of a garage :P < 1303416124 277212 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-23-177.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1303416134 146374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pure nitroglycerine? < 1303416143 155896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: someone would buy it, almost certainly < 1303416143 343427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggested that above < 1303416146 5845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitrogen triiodide? < 1303416147 125290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just do them as custom builds < 1303416162 514178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think a company could get away with selling a microwave the size of a garage :P < 1303416164 693721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST MICROWAVE < 1303416167 367310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This would go off if you lifted it, let alone microwave it.) < 1303416183 252890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If nested microwaves could actually somehow provide safety, all the band has to do is PERFORM IN ONE < 1303416188 321596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nitrogen triiodide? <-- that is worse than pure nitroglycerin right? < 1303416190 911876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the reverse-spinning plates so they don't end up spinning around. < 1303416199 80754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, waaaaay worse. < 1303416203 107476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTANT HIT < 1303416210 903303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but it contains no oxygen? < 1303416212 369881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the stuff the sixth years in my school used to make landmines* < 1303416232 388400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they only really made a bang. < 1303416236 393760 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it doesn't need it. < 1303416253 186142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I thought the key point with nitroglycerin and TNT were that they contained enough oxygen so that everything could be oxidized without needing surrounding air. < 1303416260 506236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's 2NI_3 → N_2 + 3I_2 < 1303416282 45940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1303416283 443542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, but that's because they both have carbon as well. < 1303416289 132730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1303416290 309574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I assume acts as a stabiliser. < 1303416314 791773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The explosivity comes from the nitrogen, because N_2 is really really stable. < 1303416497 704724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, isn't that the key principle of TNT and nitroglycerin too? < 1303416507 4412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I meant. < 1303416511 734249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1303416548 790614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's the stuff the sixth years in my school used to make landmines* *they only really made a bang. <-- they made nitrogen triiodide? < 1303416555 380592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1303416562 99451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, huh, how is it made? < 1303416563 859654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better, they were making gunpowder. < 1303416581 497606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how did they end up with this compound instead? < 1303416587 77631 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they ran out of potassium nitrate and sulphur, and when they asked for more the technician cottoned on. < 1303416600 106538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we just microwave antimatter instead? < 1303416604 676061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he basically said "don't make that, make this!" and handed them the recipe. < 1303416611 338240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wha... < 1303416620 502876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fun guy < 1303416637 73010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, was he able to keep his job afterwards? < 1303416642 473072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasepleaseplease tell me that somehow managing to microwave even a tiny amount of antimatter would destroy millions of galaxies. < 1303416651 820589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noöne even cared, really. < 1303416688 498748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it would be fairly boring. It would do the usual anti-matter stuff (which isn't boring), but the microwave wouldn't really add anything < 1303416694 488066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, microwave really tiny black holes. < 1303416698 415662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YES < 1303416703 640248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT WOULD THAT EVEN DO < 1303416705 757379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what would that do? < 1303416722 917211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That are set up so that they absorb exactly as much mass from the microwaves as they lose to Hawking radiation. < 1303416723 104644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SOUNDS SPECTACULAR < 1303416735 165290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN YOU GET ANTI-BLACKHOLES, SAY YES < 1303416737 284779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when you turn your microwave off, OOPS GAMMA RAY EXPLOSION < 1303416741 507185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT TO COLLIDE A BLACKHOLE AND AN ANTI-BLACKHOLE < 1303416744 325836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: X-D < 1303416745 353955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECT < 1303416746 393870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think they're equal-opportunities. < 1303416768 321797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I assume the aforementioned explosion would be fairly devestating. < 1303416770 32422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :devastating. < 1303416785 913641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is under the assumption that Hawking radiation exists. Not proven yet. < 1303416798 466303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has hawking in the game, qed < 1303416803 444621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the name < 1303416829 17048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TELL ME WHAT THE GAMMA RAY EXPLOSION WOULD BE LIKE < 1303416846 445134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, "painful". < 1303416850 484837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ANTI-BLACKHOLE" does every black hole have an equal diarrhea hole in some other part of the universe? < 1303416860 974115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IS THAT PAINFUL IN THE SENSE OF "THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WOULD IMPLODE" < 1303416864 263817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR "EARTH WOULD CEASE TO EXIST" < 1303416867 313334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR "YOU MIGHT GET A FEW BURNS" < 1303416874 52946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR "PROBABLY A HEADACHE" < 1303416876 992794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although black holes confuse me because technically there's nothing actually inside the event horizon. < 1303416926 578568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :every black hole contains an infinite set < 1303416937 41329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ANTI-BLACKHOLE" does every black hole have an equal diarrhea hole in some other part of the universe? <-- that would be a white hole I think, which I *think* would be different from an anti-black-hole < 1303416992 392495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would assume it would kill you. Not sure how far it would reach. < 1303417025 990205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover MUST ANSWER < 1303417028 338796 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: every time a black hole and a white hole are joined in holy matrimony, an uncountable set is born < 1303417034 895750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: adorable < 1303417039 299151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... complicated. < 1303417047 461526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait I still have oko on ignore. < 1303417048 557897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WOULD IT DESTROY THE EARTH OR NOT < 1303417062 598461 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. < 1303417068 645651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone paste me what he's said lately. < 1303417075 455426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing interesting because he sucks lol < 1303417079 675588 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1303417098 513569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually do like sucking < 1303417109 333256 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i actually do like sucking < 1303417109 520836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the white hole issue is unresolved AFAIK. < 1303417112 606143 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :375) i actually do like sucking < 1303417123 245204 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1303417126 901686 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad time < 1303417128 830715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way half the quotes are accidental innuendo. < 1303417139 69992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THE BEST KIND OF QUOTE < 1303417140 750382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417141 149679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417141 337230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417141 525671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417141 738607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417142 117805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417142 363827 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :207) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. < 1303417142 551594 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :234) OK, let's reduce the human genome to 4 chromosomes, in 2 homologous pairs. < 1303417142 920152 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :203) I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol < 1303417143 479897 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :199) Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1303417143 667639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1303417144 699448 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :114) it can be a good fursuit, but the good thing is that nobody can complain a fox doesn't have the right skin tone < 1303417145 259937 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :96) I cannot eat meat that isn't flat. < 1303417145 819536 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :42) i'm my dad's unborn sister < 1303417163 937848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Phantom_Hoover likes doing logs < 1303417181 236187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warrigal performs cunnilingus on flat women < 1303417184 588394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1303417187 515832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fellatio on flat men < 1303417192 785717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess works better < 1303417200 294689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH wants to reduce the human genome with inbreeding < 1303417204 394423 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is warrigal a pedophile? < 1303417209 550376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1303417217 73207 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I say that? < 1303417223 622705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're a paedophile < 1303417233 281699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 97 < 1303417234 122431 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 \ 97) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. < 1303417240 383056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at how that number is wrong now < 1303417249 590313 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 124 < 1303417250 640901 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :124 \ 124) Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without < 1303417254 39996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES < 1303417264 849804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why that "foo \" in front < 1303417265 949525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without what? < 1303417266 588812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/quote < 1303417267 438473 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote < 1303417276 838285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1303417286 746076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote the < 1303417287 791978 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. \ 10) So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? \ 11) wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? < 1303417288 67775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume it's searching. < 1303417303 975794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1303417304 865643 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1303417305 145734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an and sign < 1303417307 104536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that none of those quotes actually contain the word "the" < 1303417315 405700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not visibly, anyway < 1303417321 534716 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor laws. < 1303417325 444755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "o THE rmatt" < 1303417330 173936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i have an and sign plz < 1303417335 253776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for 10, indeed, that's not the word the < 1303417341 760067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even see an embedded the for 5, though < 1303417342 283244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's|2>/dev/null|>/dev/null 2>\&1|' bin/quote < 1303417343 392582 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303417344 651680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 9 < 1303417345 732761 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :9) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence < 1303417347 321942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1303417347 922247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "them" < 1303417353 411410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote \bthe\b < 1303417354 645200 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :16) First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. \ 17) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ 26) so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is < 1303417518 781116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wow < 1303417524 566829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did sudo umount -l / < 1303417531 965939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only apparent effect was that /dev/sda1 stopped existing < 1303417567 573416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's one way to remount read-only < 1303417577 944999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's lazy, so it won't unmount until all refs disappear < 1303417578 476288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. never < 1303417580 612732 :crystal-cola!~quantum@unaffiliated/j-invariant QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1303417583 631934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can remount immediately, though < 1303417591 441002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to manually recreate /dev/sda[one] < 1303417594 620581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using mknod < 1303417603 638354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303417608 839526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what is up with your number keys? < 1303417615 698313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were joking when you said they weren't working, in Agora < 1303417635 750687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they literally aren't working < 1303417635 937951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /why/ would /dev/sda1 stop existing upon doing that? < 1303417641 850012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who knows, udev sucks < 1303417644 807737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you press them and nothing happens? < 1303417650 685970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. one to eight. 9 and 0 work. < 1303417655 631378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it is one portion of the keyboard matrix. < 1303417658 35186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has been damaged < 1303417662 55399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sounds like a broken wire or something < 1303417680 462829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to backup, wipe the drive, and send it off to Apple < 1303417687 12976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll almost certainly just send me a new one < 1303417695 872036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm pretty sure getting at the keyboard controller on a MacBook Air is downright impossible < 1303417705 521821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wipe the drive? so they don't get to see your data? < 1303417717 250321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, right now it boots into Linux by default. < 1303417723 159681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303417730 169428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get 2, 3, and 5 via tab-complete on my name, at least < 1303417730 448979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that doesn't void the warranty, it'd sure as hell confuse them < 1303417742 508528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it does seem like a fairly reasonable privacy measure to take < 1303417750 127569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as they'll copy whatever to the new one < 1303417757 196202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'd probably mess up a non-trivial partition table < 1303417761 287242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just create more work for me fixing it up < 1303417970 698897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wouldn't it be easier to just move the hdd? < 1303417976 758230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ssd < 1303417977 318378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggest we all provide elliott with a digit. < 1303417978 467885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it may be < 1303417984 133906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately: < 1303417993 366465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not gonna feed the troll. < 1303418008 545026 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303418020 944430 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :no0123456789 < 1303418021 834892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually my question was in ernest, why would apple not just move the ssd over, should be cheaper for them < 1303418031 181234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, them. < 1303418040 92261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the SSD chips are printed on to the motherboard. < 1303418047 848595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may technically be detachable, but it wouldn't be pretty. < 1303418055 491010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you have any idea how to set all a running system's filesystems to readonly, apart from /dev/shm/ < 1303418060 190983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/?/ < 1303418064 50528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you unmounted /, right? < 1303418066 30396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably in a way that doesnt' cause it to crash? < 1303418066 670615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recreate sda[one] < 1303418068 559922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mount it readonly < 1303418071 209656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will work < 1303418072 965943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since / is no longer busy < 1303418075 99944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1303418076 5310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I recreated sda1 < 1303418080 898719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Because the SSD chips are printed on to the motherboard. <-- oh < 1303418082 808806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trying to mount / says it's already mounted < 1303418083 488590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mount -o ro /dev/sda[one] / < 1303418086 236905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303418089 48185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was not aware < 1303418095 678487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dammit I provided you with the numbers at GREAT PERSONAL EXPENSE < 1303418096 797577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umount -fl // < 1303418100 877523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm only one / < 1303418105 397106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the force might help beforehand < 1303418111 36303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THANK YOU < 1303418132 16131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: yes, I recreated sda1 but trying to mount / says it's already mounted <-- what are you doing? < 1303418140 999155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I just screwed up screen somehow < 1303418141 825659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: do you have any idea how to set all a running system's filesystems to readonly, apart from /dev/shm/ < 1303418147 153047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading comprehension < 1303418147 713237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1303418150 283119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: trying to set the filesystem of a virtual machine to readonly < 1303418150 784918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why are you trying to do this anyway? < 1303418161 432800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... mount -o ro,remount / ? < 1303418166 811541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1303418168 821338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you can rewind just by restoring memory, rather than having to handle the disk as well < 1303418169 414299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and same for all the other ones < 1303418171 935593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's not the first thing we tried < 1303418182 340838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "/ is busy" < 1303418196 529844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, check with lsof to find out what process uses it < 1303418204 518939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apart from EVERYTHING? < 1303418205 518248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, what if you used switch_root? < 1303418211 648011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1303418213 687983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : WARNING: switch_root removes recursively all files and directories on the current root filesystem. < 1303418218 596970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I assume you are in single user mode? doing it from X is unlikely to work < 1303418231 506223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one: ais523, not me < 1303418233 645984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is meant for initramfs < 1303418235 865723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two: what a stupid asumption < 1303418237 395132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumption < 1303418241 655026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1303418252 241566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, why would a command have an option to do an rm -rf --no-preserve-root /? < 1303418258 183523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from rm, I mean < 1303418263 462983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it needs three < 1303418264 833816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meant for initramfs, like Vorpal said < 1303418270 198991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after creating the real root < 1303418287 791409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, all the processes on the system are using / < 1303418293 800478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the reason is so that the space on the tmpfs that the initramfs makes up can be reclaimed < 1303418293 988099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's an idea < 1303418296 850291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use a bind mount < 1303418304 929871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, writing? < 1303418308 708968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would that help? < 1303418311 468697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mount sda[one] read-only in ~/foo, unmount super-lazy / < 1303418314 918554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bind ~/foo to / < 1303418317 608311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, read only use doesn't matter < 1303418323 438206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice you are suddenly :SO HIGH: < 1303418326 437503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw why are you doing this? < 1303418343 789197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think bind mounts nest < 1303418353 75420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, btw why are you doing this? elliott: so you can rewind just by restoring memory, rather than having to handle the disk as well < 1303418360 603835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1303418366 664902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo umount -fl / \ umount: /: not mounted \ $ sudo mount -o ro / \ mount: /dev/sda1 already mounted or / busy \ mount: according to mtab, /dev/sda1 is already mounted on / < 1303418377 493478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go go mount! < 1303418399 761602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bonus points, I found a command that makes sda1 readonly (the actual device), but it seems to be a no-op < 1303418412 20525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: modify mtab < 1303418412 208159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when I made a 2MB file, in order to get around potential caching problems < 1303418425 159487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if this doesn't work out, you might want to check out snapshots in lvm. they are COW, and destroying a branch is quick (just discard the copied data) < 1303418431 528775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: delete the sda[one] line < 1303418432 509281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1303418433 619615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1303418439 678474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: same error, without the "according to mtab" < 1303418452 476941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unmount /proc, create a /proc directory, copy mtab to /proc/monuts < 1303418453 383337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mounts < 1303418456 805595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was inevitable, surely < 1303418465 606023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's... brilliantly evil < 1303418466 177503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIZARDRY AT MY FINGERTIPS < 1303418474 494938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's probably the syscall itself failing, but worth a shot :D < 1303418480 604144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo umount /proc < 1303418481 814284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umount: /proc: not mounted < 1303418483 916943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: unmount /proc, create a /proc directory, copy mtab to /proc/monuts <-- aieee! < 1303418484 439018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1303418486 734392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it manually then < 1303418488 647826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo rm /proc/mounts < 1303418492 152971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo cp /etc/mtab /proc/mounts < 1303418502 752504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, /proc is an empty directory < 1303418521 740569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but same error even after I put a file in it < 1303418526 440712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1303418532 989877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a c compiler? < 1303418561 357792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but this is getting increasingly insane < 1303418565 297224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could edit /etc/fstab to mount stuff readonly. And remove any remounting to rw from the system startup scripts. Then reboot. < 1303418567 167386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1303418567 355012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to suggest just calling the syscall by hand? < 1303418575 216779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MNT_FORCE (since Linux 2.1.116) < 1303418575 419493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Force unmount even if busy. This can cause data loss. (Only for NFS mounts.) < 1303418575 607315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MNT_DETACH (since Linux 2.4.11) < 1303418575 607508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perform a lazy unmount: make the mount point unavailable for new accesses, and actually perform the unmount when the mount point ceases to be busy. < 1303418575 607616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MNT_EXPIRE (since Linux 2.6.8) < 1303418576 676634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that involves a reboot, which defeats the point of the exercise < 1303418578 656319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mark the mount point as expired. If a mount point is not currently in use, then an initial call to umount2() with this flag fails with the error EAGAIN, but < 1303418581 435717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : marks the mount point as expired. The mount point remains expired as long as it isn't accessed by any process. A second umount2() call specifying MNT_EXPIRE < 1303418584 386581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unmounts an expired mount point. This flag cannot be specified with either MNT_FORCE or MNT_DETACH. < 1303418586 55696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what exactly *is* the exercise? < 1303418587 585298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try doing < 1303418589 505427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umount[two] with all those flags < 1303418591 468685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again < 1303418593 504786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same flags < 1303418595 527784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then try mounting with the mount tool < 1303418596 752680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: making the FS readonly on a running system < 1303418599 866280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: the mount binary itself may disappear < 1303418600 124179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really shouldn't be this hard < 1303418607 303844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, go to single user mode, you can do it then < 1303418619 972797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just set the runlevel to 1 with telinit? < 1303418635 996231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm that should work < 1303418642 340599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact you can do it as long as nothing has anything open for writing on that partition < 1303418648 194586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i have ssh access, this sounds like great fun < 1303418654 75730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not mine to give < 1303418654 359708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lsof will tell you if it is open for reading or writing < 1303418659 509601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lame < 1303418660 929871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I did sudo telinit 1 < 1303418666 748748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it doesn't respond to the keyboard < 1303418687 876860 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224] < 1303418701 25929 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have errors=remount-ro on, and then force some sort of an error on the filesystem? < 1303418712 344340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was beginning to think along those lines < 1303418725 353060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh? < 1303418745 885761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is ext-specific isn't it? < 1303418755 360696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was thinking that myself too < 1303418759 300845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I've had my FS rendered read-only before < 1303418766 479994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even on a vt? < 1303418862 172036 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Well, at least ext2 and such support it; some others might too for all I know. < 1303418889 899473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking about jfs, xfs and so on < 1303418899 759066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, is brtfs any good yet? < 1303418913 647144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good implies stable here) < 1303418962 192893 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303418969 422825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's controlled by Oracle, so it'll never be (mentally) stable. < 1303419222 141408 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Btrfs supports a very limited form of transaction without ACID semantics: rollback is not possible, only one transaction may run at a time and transactions are not atomic with respect to storage." < 1303419222 691155 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1303419238 819322 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what way is that transactions at all :P < 1303419283 75370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1303419292 133420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a semaphore? < 1303419295 274021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a transaction? < 1303419305 643536 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even a semaphore? Sounds like a mutex :P < 1303419307 313397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two concepts are rather different < 1303419312 212708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but if Oracle says it's a transaction < 1303419314 142716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will doubt :D < 1303419321 682118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a mutex is a boolean semaphore, isn't it? < 1303419325 582632 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yuh < 1303419596 9309 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'foo() { echo $1 }; foo bar' | csh < 1303419597 511504 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303419597 941141 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is this much-circulated btrfs discussion, https://lkml.org/lkml/2010/6/18/144 -- but that's almost a year old and I make no claims to the truthfulness of it. < 1303419602 317036 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which csh < 1303419604 41075 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1303419609 410104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not, why the hell would I have csh :) < 1303420028 875796 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1303420035 304504 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you're on 2.6.32 or older < 1303420035 492027 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should consider upgrading. The error behaviour of Btrfs [when running out of disk space] has significantly improved, such that you get a nice proper ENOSPC instead of an OOPS or worse." < 1303420162 993716 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303420216 677694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/gv1xy/urgent_need_to_know_right_fucking_now_is_it_safe/ < 1303420217 377762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1303420223 507334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the Best Reddit Thread. < 1303420272 193005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octopodes are now my favourite animals. < 1303420302 550395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Professional Octopodes of the World. < 1303420342 947063 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a thread about fucking octopodes safely? < 1303420363 855222 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even better < 1303420402 741462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1303420515 132773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recently heard an octopus dies of boredom if you don't give it toys < 1303420540 550092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303420547 709492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a friend owns some sort of aquarium shop) < 1303420632 526813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so sad. < 1303420657 29981 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, on the other hand it's pretty damn cool < 1303420835 54375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you couldn't die of boredom. < 1303420855 73429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On account of suddenly realising "Jesus my heart's not beating", which is interesting. < 1303420859 66346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1303420859 936684 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not an octopus, i'm an okLopOL < 1303420881 523392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "So what's the last interesting thing to happen to you?" "Uh, my heart stopped beating." < 1303421223 891176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god there's an obnoxious republican on 10 O'Clock Live saying that the figurehead of state should be elected. < 1303421228 920708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so hilariously stupid. < 1303421236 620010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JADE GOODY MEETS OBAMA < 1303421711 269288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the Queen would be elected in the UK if we had a figurehead election < 1303421727 858173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everyone agrees she makes a great figurehead, the only real complaint is how much she costs < 1303421734 577756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although she probably brings in more money than that in tourism < 1303421772 113683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, one of the princesses lost all her money doing something or other years ago, and made it back by going on American chat shows; I'm not sure of the details < 1303421855 786898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Queen is fine, the problem is that Charles clearly has ideas above his station. < 1303421880 587151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that he matters as anything more than a reader of speeches. < 1303421900 132715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is heir to the throne, technically < 1303421908 165282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1303421908 582008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although people keep forgetting and assuming Prince William is < 1303421916 643076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do? < 1303421919 971834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1303421928 661963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :William *is* heir to the throne, just not the first. < 1303421950 499840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it looks like charles is unlikely to die before the queen < 1303421977 636469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he's a homeopath, so if he gets a disease... < 1303421989 655019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1303422023 406385 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if william and charles die? < 1303422028 701858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the current guys < 1303422030 601801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'll go to Harry. < 1303422035 91164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nazi. < 1303422035 971342 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if he dies < 1303422038 270849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if EVERYONE dies < 1303422042 521100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone < 1303422043 830376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously < 1303422044 711606 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just those guys < 1303422050 376583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whoever Phantom_Hoover says next < 1303422059 309291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, then you just keep going back. < 1303422066 148555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :back? < 1303422068 548915 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a line of succession thousands long. < 1303422068 799986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What if the entire Royal family goes extinct. < 1303422073 588474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENTIRE. < 1303422079 871861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the fact that we'd all be dead. < 1303422080 777804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, the TARDIS was an UK invention wasn't it? < 1303422084 176977 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay that's what i've understood < 1303422090 256285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" They have a line of succession thousands long." < 1303422102 581758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, impossible, since there is no well-defined Royal family. < 1303423050 666909 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXWVFJg1Ve0 < 1303423251 107622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303423557 290965 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1303423880 722759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1303424096 464325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1303424171 997098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Clear out your goddamn MemoServ inbox already. < 1303424172 222608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1303424283 757513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXWVFJg1Ve0 <-- I don't know the language, what is it about? < 1303424290 583745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, watch it. < 1303424295 108006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It transcends language. < 1303424299 538715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :done at 02:19 < 1303424322 74474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, all I can tell so far is that they are standing with something strange at a toilet and arguing < 1303424334 413167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes clear in a few seconds. < 1303424371 960488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1303424410 840339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what was in that thing < 1303424418 226408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just blew up the toilet < 1303424482 20634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explosives, you imbecile. < 1303424491 509780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what sort is what I meant < 1303424506 198383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I know, I'm not an explosives expert. < 1303424514 487467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh right < 1303424518 936076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I thought you were < 1303424541 415370 :impomatic!~chatzilla@244.68.112.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.5.18/20110319140258] < 1303424612 790093 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: his toilet is congested < 1303424630 977764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe, and what was that he put in then? < 1303424757 807449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe, wait, is that why he did it? < 1303424761 636285 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesser men would have called a plumber. < 1303424774 817348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean men who understand pressure. < 1303424809 402391 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in german we call it "Vogelschreck", it is used to chase away birds < 1303425002 285545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe, no clue what that is < 1303425043 541969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's a small explosive. You really suck at this. < 1303425094 657924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, suck at what? explosives? yes < 1303425104 87744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck at basic inference. < 1303425130 824852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it doesn't answer anything really. Like what it is made of < 1303425139 717188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which is what I'm interested in < 1303425190 280665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, night → < 1303425208 986822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, I know now, but I'm not going to tell you because it took me about 30 seconds. < 1303425248 804630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we have Google, you know. < 1303425253 699162 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even translates. < 1303425846 362826 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtract and branch if zero is TC, right? < 1303426070 743405 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-130.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1303426236 247749 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-91.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303426465 710584 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1303426857 16617 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132932.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303427058 149467 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303427393 833865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott AAAAAAAAAAAAAA MY MERE HUMAN BRAIN IS INSUFFICIENT < 1303427394 21372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1303427497 978828 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1303427531 899201 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303427583 495371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1303427784 501905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303427784 785862 :no0123456789!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1303429080 606570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be reopening! < 1303429085 413150 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no one, not even me, cares. < 1303429089 703438 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make the variant of [[Muxcomp]] that uses internal CPU registers, some of which are shared between execution units? < 1303429165 417153 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who use twitter: What's twitterese for "Send answers by tagging @whoever"? < 1303429237 12981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're @whoever, then probably "reply" or "mention" < 1303429244 210417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1303429250 395500 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they have any documentation about such thigns? < 1303429273 737741 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like "reply @whoever"? < 1303429276 819198 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's more a cultural thing than a formal thing. Yet, these days Internet culture does have documentation *mindboggle* < 1303429277 737863 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1303429295 376568 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I guess. But then what if they want to put a . in front... I don't know < 1303429323 673307 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what IF they want to put a . in front? < 1303429341 92193 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, they want everyone to see it, not just you < 1303429359 360510 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes at the start of the message, it's unrelated :P < 1303429362 360309 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1303429367 939476 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see what you mean < 1303429369 969366 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care :P < 1303429919 752500 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout "Answer@CaptainHats"?