00:27:44 Can it be invented, a card game involving the five Chinese elements? Maybe 0 to 9 and infinity of each suit, where the suits are the five elements. 00:31:34 well that sounds obviously _possible_... 00:33:10 oerjan: Do you have any other ideas of this? 00:33:28 nah 00:37:49 Any opinion about chess variants? 00:37:57 Including this one http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSchesswithwicke 00:39:21 I have heard also of a game called "Chess with Quantum Bishops", which I did not invent but heard from someone else, and typed it by myself, though. 00:43:12 * oerjan imagines that like a game where the bishops are invisible, unless they capture something you only get to know _that_ they move, and you can only capture one if you can deduce that it _has_ to be in a particular spot 00:45:49 well unless the owner player decides it _is_ in a spot, to prevent you from capturing/going somewhere else 00:46:37 but if the owning player cannot give at least one consistent route for where the bishops have been, he loses. 00:46:59 the last could get particularly tricky when you consider the interaction with the _other_ player's bishops... 00:48:51 now one could also imagine a game where you had to sum actual quantum probabilities, but i somehow doubt anyone has the ability to really play that... 00:49:22 even computer assistance might give exponential blowup there 00:49:57 zzo38: is that similar to how that game is? 00:50:13 (not the last part with quantum probs/states) 00:50:26 oerjan: No. It isn't. Although your idea is also a possible idea of a chess variant. 00:50:52 Here is the rule for the Chess with Quantum Bishops that I heard of (my name is on it because I typed it): http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSchesswithquant 00:53:43 But the idea you had, I had something similar, with Invisible Kings Chess, although the move must be made on secret paper. 00:53:55 ah kings, that would be even better of course 00:54:51 i note those quantum bishops can capture a piece other than at their end point... 00:55:27 Yes they can. These are the rules I have been told, by someone else, who also doesn't know who told him 00:56:34 * tswett nods. 00:57:14 * oerjan finds the alphabetic chess diagram hard to read... 00:57:55 Simple chess-with-visibility: you can see an opponent's piece if and only if one of your own pieces can reach it within two moves. 00:58:31 fog of war? 00:58:38 Yup. 00:58:43 tswett: That is another possible idea. If you have an account on Chess Variants, you can post it? 00:58:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:59:05 A pawn can see two moves ahead of it (unless it's near the far row), but not diagonally at all. A rook in a good position can see the whole board. 00:59:11 zzo38: I don't have an account there. 00:59:23 tswett: um pawns capture diagonally 00:59:51 oerjan: indeed. It may be more interesting if a pawn can only see straight forward, though. 01:00:13 So in order for a pawn to capture, some other piece must be able to see the victim. 01:00:25 Or maybe you can use the "Try" rule of Kriegspiel chess? 01:04:25 Looks like essentially, with that rule, a pawn can see whether there is a piece in each direction, but not what type of piece it is. 01:05:51 Once I invented a game that seems to be very different from chess: it is one-dimensional, has 72 cells, twelve kind of pieces (one of which is a neutral piece), pieces that affect other pieces when moving (not only the piece it captures), the players have different armies, no check/mate. Yet, actually, it is exactly the same as normal chess. 01:06:45 tswett: What are you refering to? Are you refering to the "Try" rule? If so, that is not quite what it is. 01:06:59 The "Try" rule, yes. 01:08:15 The "Try" rule actually just says whether or not any of your pawns can capture. And then you must try. If you failed, you can try again or you can make a different move. 01:10:04 Huh. Perhaps there are multiple variants. 01:11:34 Also, with your idea, sometimes you will not know if you are in check? Some rule must be added to help with this? Such as, either you are told if you are in check, or you can see the checking piece, or you just try and have to try again if you made the wrong move, or something else. 01:12:22 Yes, perhaps we should also let kings see pieces that have them in check. 01:12:44 http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html 01:13:39 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 01:14:08 gah huge font 01:14:24 * oerjan unzooms 01:15:57 * oerjan wonders if he knows that intercal _has_ an OO extension. 01:21:11 Sgeo: what's BBM? 01:28:35 "brilliant bipolar mind", apparently 01:34:24 -!- augur has joined. 02:04:46 Of course in chess with wickets, the Rook can never be the Ball-haver before castling.... I did not pay attention to that at first..... but now I do. 02:16:39 zzo38: where do you find these things? 02:17:18 coppro: What things? 02:17:29 Chess variants? 02:19:40 everything 02:21:02 Everywhere! 02:22:05 zzo38: question about Kirby's chess. How does one get a Kirby to be a king? 02:23:04 coppro: You can't, but in case you combine it with a game that has multiple Kings, then you can. 02:23:54 Now I have six types of items listed in my "Invented". 02:24:29 also your bland chess problem is impossible to get to in a game 02:24:31 And I highly recomand this one: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSchessvariantsq 02:25:29 coppro: Yes you are right about that. I did not notice that at first, but now I can see that is true. However, in fairy chess sometimes you have positions that are impossible to get to. 02:26:27 Some of these things I did not pay enough attention! 02:27:30 zzo38: oh wait... it might be possible if you promote to a bishop 02:28:17 coppro: No, it is not possible. See there is the "p" in the same file. Pawns do not capture in this game so it could not have happened. 02:31:16 Do you believe me? Or have I made another mistake? 02:39:08 zzo38: ah, nope, my intuition was correct 02:42:44 -!- monqy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:45:53 -!- monqy has joined. 02:51:24 Have you seen my latest additions to TeXnicard? 03:09:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:27:28 -!- augur has joined. 03:29:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:29:06 -!- z^ck has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:29:17 -!- z^ck has joined. 03:30:17 -!- augur has joined. 03:30:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:54:02 zzo38: no; I have not been following TeXnicard at all 03:56:30 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:57:38 -!- pingveno has joined. 04:00:33 ...i don't follow it either 04:04:50 coppro,quintopia: OK; but if you are interest and have question, please ask a question/complaint if you have any, please. Or say there is nothing, if you have nothing yet. 04:05:22 i have nothing and i never will have anything because it is not something that interests me :) 04:05:36 OK. 04:08:29 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:10:01 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 04:14:10 Although would you be able to help with illustrations/diagrams/cartoons in a book of the program? 04:15:29 probably not 04:15:32 I have little spare time 04:19:27 OK 04:19:53 (O, and also examples, I forgot "examples" in that list above) 04:22:30 and when I do have time, my bizarro thing that is ostensibly a relationship seems to take it up 04:22:49 i would consider it. how much does it pay? 04:24:21 quintopia: I don't know yet, if it pays anything at all. But regardless, it is not yet time, please. 04:24:52 i would do it for the right price, but probably not for free ;) 04:25:25 Of course it is GNU GPL and you can sell your own copies (so can anyone) if you want to, including the book, and the computer file. It can also be done selling the book with the DVD for the computer file in the back. 04:29:34 quintopia: OK, I can understand that. 04:32:31 However currently I have no way to pay, but also is not yet time. But I would agree to following: That the illustrations/diagrams/cartoons and the graphics (but not codes) for examples are BY-NC-SA (belonging to the person who made these graphics), that they can sell the book with it, that I also have a license to sell the book with them but must pay royalties, others must contact you first. 04:34:06 But if later I can pay, I might do so even early, to someone who would expect the money, maybe. 05:14:42 -!- augur has joined. 05:19:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:44:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:45:10 * pikhq declares that everything hates him 05:45:10 pikhq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 05:45:33 i assume that was a hate message, then. 05:45:42 -!- Slereah has quit. 05:45:54 copumpkin: re: lambdabot. Uh? I know not. 05:46:17 pikhq: I could've sworn you'd linked to a set of heisig stories at some point 05:46:23 maybe I'm just confused 05:46:25 I don't recall one. 05:46:39 ah well 05:46:41 OK, I've got a tempo knob :) 05:46:44 Fuck. This. Economy. 05:46:50 pikhq: what's wrong? 05:47:00 copumpkin: Well, I'm in a demographic with 50% employment. 05:47:08 copumpkin: As you can imagine, getting a job is very difficult. 05:47:13 ah yes :/ 05:47:15 And currently, I have no working computer. 05:47:22 damn :/ 05:47:23 Because my power supply broke. 05:47:49 Also, my PS3 broke. I need to reflow it and reapply thermal paste to the GPU/CPU. Can't afford thermal paste. 05:48:20 wow, bad time 05:48:47 where are you? 05:49:03 Colorado Springs, CO, USA 05:49:07 ah 05:49:53 So I'm currently coaxing an old P4 system that's not mine into cooperating with me. 05:50:22 I swear, this thing is a decade old. 05:50:30 Actually, almost exactly that. 05:51:41 Anyways, I have concluded that everything hates me. 05:52:06 Most especially the job market. 05:52:24 It should *not* be difficult to find even a minimum wage job. 05:52:36 And yet, it seems to be impossibly so. 05:53:11 Unless, of course, I want to cease going to college. And fuck that. 05:54:46 yeah, it's annoying choice 05:55:08 you could transfer to somewhere more "happening" job-wise 05:55:14 or aren't there college jobs? 05:55:21 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:56:08 It's not even like I have a hard-to-work-with schedule. 05:56:54 -!- monqy has joined. 05:57:59 12-4 M-W, 10-2 T-Tr. Fuck everyone wanting part-time workers working, say, 10-4 on 3 weekdays a week. That's just fucking cruel. 05:59:58 In completely unrelated news, I have finally found a replacement for Make that I like. 06:00:49 Called "redo". A third-party implementation of a djb idea. 06:00:57 Did anyone win both the Nobel Prize and the Ig Nobel Prize? 06:02:22 pikhq: anyway, good luck with finding a job and/or a working computer! was wondering where you'd gone 06:02:26 * copumpkin goes to sleep 06:02:42 pikhq: How does this "redo" work? 06:03:03 zzo38: Each build rule is a shell script with extension ".do". 06:04:28 To start a build, you call "redo foo". This will just execute foo.do. The command "redo-ifchange" denotes a dependency. If the dependency's timestamp has changed, then redo-ifchange will execute the dependency 06:04:36 's rule before continuing execution. 06:05:06 zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Geim 06:05:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:05:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:06:32 default.ext.do will create a generic rule for .ext 06:06:48 (default.do, BTW, is also a generic rule) 06:07:09 The shell scripts have 3 arguments passed to them: the first is the target, sans extension, the second is the target's extension, the third is a temporary file that will get renamed to the target upon succesful execution of the build rule. 06:08:06 When I work with my own projects, I do not need any make files or build rules, because it is simple and a few lines of a shell script will do, there are not many files to deal with, some are temporary such as the ".idx", ".toc", ".scm", ".o" (if any), ".log". I usually only distribute the ".w", ".exe", and the compile script (called "compile"). 06:08:34 However, for a thing with build rules, that system you describe seems it can help when you need them, certainly good for that kind of things. 06:10:20 It's not more complex than make, it's more flexible than make, and *holy fuck it does spaces in filenames right*. 06:10:54 pikhq: Then, that is good. I did not say it was more complex than make, though. 06:11:08 Yeah, I'm not saying you did. 06:11:12 I'm just saying: :D 06:11:32 Oh, yeah, and there's a subset of its functionality written in 150 lines of shell script. 06:11:43 Not even very dense lines of shell script. 06:14:19 (the shell script doesn't check dependencies; it just does a full build from the top) 06:16:18 I suppose in my system the ".c", ".h" and ".tex" files are also like temporary files, a bit 06:31:05 Is it possible in the redo system, to, make a rule for .do files? 06:32:06 IT'S .DO ALL THE WAY DOWN 06:32:30 that almost should be an INTERCAL (non-error) statement 06:37:31 -!- augur has joined. 06:42:32 -!- oklofok has joined. 06:42:47 i wonder if our minecrafters are gonna get sucked into this one soon also: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/21/love-grows-stronger-deeper-cheaper/ 06:45:32 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:50:33 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 06:52:14 zzo38: Presently, it doesn't have the ability to generate .do files. 06:52:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:52:38 zzo38: Not many technical reasons it couldn't, it's just not yet been implemented. 06:53:49 You can quite easily generate dependencies, though. redo-ifchange is just another command, after all. :) 06:54:56 3 lines for automatically calculating the dependencies for a C file... :) 06:55:01 -!- augur has joined. 06:55:50 Goodness. It makes the traditional C build-system seem halfway reasonable. 06:56:01 s/build-system/build setup/ 06:56:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:58:46 I use make files with other projects, but my own projects I never need a build-system. 06:59:14 Calculating dependencies for a C file, you can check for #include header files, and then you might check for libraries too? 06:59:41 It'll only handle #include headers. Sadly, there's no real automagic way of handling objects. 07:00:10 Well, you *could* rather easily say "For each .c file I want an .o file, and link them together kthx". 07:00:25 And if it includes any #line directives then it usually means the file named in the #line is generating the .c file from it? 07:01:08 DEPS=`echo *.c|sed s/.c/.o/g`;redo-ifchange $DEPS;gcc $DEPS -o foo 07:01:13 Maybe you have to check if you need any -l library also 07:01:47 (note: almost certainly a better way of doing that than piping into sed. At 1 in the morning, my shell magic goes away) 07:01:50 What is traditional C build setup? 07:03:58 Y'know, where you have "compilation units", the only possible interaction between two of them comes courtesy of a preprocessing step, and generally involves there being no easy way of determining what files make up a program? 07:06:13 Causing a lot of fairly unfortunate things, such as building being *very hard* to do right, libraries being a PITA, and whole-program optimization requiring some very low-level changes in the whole thing. 07:07:24 (GCC's implementation involves *inserting sections* into the freaking object files containing an intermediate form of the program which the linker (with a plugin) can parse through so that it can pass the whole chunk back to the compiler) 07:14:56 Is that what happens when I type -fwhole-program ? 07:17:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:18:01 No, that's what happens when you use -flto on GCC 4.5 or 4.6. 07:18:08 (note: buggy as hell on 4.5) 07:19:14 -fwhole-program makes GCC assume that what's been passed on the command line represents the whole program, thereby allowing it to make a few more assumptions... 07:20:04 (most notably that no symbols can be accessed unless a pointer gets passed outside of the program) 07:22:51 Huh. Lions used to live in North America. 07:22:59 pikhq! 07:23:02 YOU'RE ALIVE 07:23:12 Panthera leo atrox went extinct ~11,000 years ago. 07:23:17 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but my computer is not. 07:23:27 :( 07:23:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/gr2au/ive_hit_rock_bottom_advice/ 07:23:57 Am I a bad person for immediately thinking "duh, that's what happens when you dedicate your life to living off a parent." 07:25:38 Phantom_Hoover: From the sounds of it, it's more that his mother was taking advantage of him. "Just to repeat, at the time I was almost exclusively helping care for my brother until he left." 07:25:52 Well, OK. 07:26:16 (Could this be Sgeo in another life? WE MAY NEVER KNOW.) 07:26:39 Sometimes I wonder if I should stop with the Sgeo mocking. 07:26:55 Taking care of a fairly disabled person is not exactly mooching... 07:27:24 And a parent allowing it to happen at the expense of other, fairly basic needs (college, social life, job, etc.) is not exactly helpful. 07:30:08 And then booting him out after having basically used him for 6 years with nothing to show for it? 07:30:16 Damned near abusive, really. 07:32:05 eh i know a guy who pays the entirety of the mortgage of the house he lives in, despite not having his name anywhere on the deed. (his mom, father-in-law, and brother-in-law own it but pay nothing to stay there) 07:32:33 Then he should write his name somewhere on the deed! 07:32:38 we've told him to get the fuck out of there, but he feelsl like that would basically be dooming his mother to be homeless, and she can't work, so... 07:32:41 it sucks 07:33:08 quintopia: I'm pretty sure that gives him an ownership interest, and if push came to shove he could get the deed. 07:33:09 zzo38: then he'd have to pay those people the first 10 years worth of the mortgage to buy them out, which he doesn't have the money for 07:33:13 (presuming common law) 07:33:19 pikhq: how does that work 07:33:22 i could tell him 07:33:39 quintopia: He'd have to explain the situation to a lawyer. 07:33:51 quintopia: That's, uh, about the full extent of it that I'm aware of. 07:33:58 ha, well okay 07:34:18 "People have ended up fully paying for a house loan that there name isn't on, and sued for ownership succesfully." 07:34:49 yes but he's only paying all the current payments on it 07:34:58 he will never be able to pay for the first ten years of it 07:35:08 sounds like a stretch 07:35:17 Also, even if he didn't do that, he'd be pretty damned hard to kick out: as he is paying for it, he is renting, and so they'd have to go through the full eviction process. 07:35:35 I meant, write his name on there without removing the names that are already there 07:35:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:35:48 well, it's not that he minds living there, and they would never kick him out 07:35:48 (note: actually pressing this with family involved may be difficult, because that's his freaking family.) 07:35:55 it's just that he doesn't want to pay anymore 07:36:17 He may wish to talk with them. 07:36:17 Too bad, if you have a house to live at, you have to pay! 07:36:18 because he can't really afford it 07:36:35 zzo38: then why isn't everyone else there paying? 07:37:35 but yeah i agree he needs to somehow get those people to pay or give him the deed, even if it means threatening his own mother with a lawsuit :/ 07:37:54 quintopia: I think they should pay too, isn't it? 07:37:58 It is most definitely *not* a healthy situation. 07:38:33 At a minimum, get them agree to help pay the mortgage... And get it in writing. 07:40:19 Yes, they should probably do that. 07:40:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:41:35 * pikhq is feeling a bit Russian ATM 07:42:04 Vodka. 07:42:06 It does that. 07:42:21 Is Russian the same as tired and emotional? 07:42:41 Not really. 07:45:43 Sometimes in C programming there is something where + or | or ^ can be used all of them can work, which are considered best? Does it depend on anything? 07:46:55 Pick whichever is most clear in context; modern compilers *will* choose whichever is fastest. 07:47:39 (basic arithmetic is one of the few things where actually generating *optimal* code isn't too hard) 07:47:40 How can the compiler necessarily know if such a situation exists? 07:48:01 (Assume where both operands are non-constant) 07:48:20 Oh, "both operands are non-constant"? Okay, that throws shit out. 07:48:54 Beats me; probably varies depending on ISA or CPU. 07:49:04 Pick whichever is most clear in context. 07:49:42 Unless, of course, you can show that doing otherwise nets you worthwhile performance gains. 07:50:23 In case of constants, sometimes you might be able to know by the compiler, probably, such as: (x<<4)|0x5 then you can put ^ or + instead it still works (but | is probably most clearly). 07:50:51 -!- augur has joined. 07:51:15 There's rather a lot of clever stuff you can do with arithmetic when constants are known. 07:52:57 But in other complicated cases with non-constant, it is difficult. It could be made a macro using #define that is defined as such, and then use this macro. And redefine it when compiling on a computer that is different in case it depending on ISA or CPU. 07:53:32 Yeah, but doing that is only going to matter much in a handful of cases. 07:53:55 In the general case, programmer time is more important than CPU time. 07:55:07 In the specific case, you end up producing code like that of x264. 07:55:34 the only place it could make a difference is in the inner loop of a something that happens a LOT. like the only line in a loop happening 1000^3 times in a row 07:55:43 Like in x264. 07:55:49 yer 07:56:13 There is another place it could make a difference, BTW. 07:56:31 If one opcode is smaller than the other, than making the wrong choice *could* produce cache misses. 07:56:40 lul 07:56:55 sure if you use the longer opcode a thousand time inline 07:57:25 i'm going to reject that case as insignificant also 07:57:26 But given general coding habits, I don't think many people actually give a damn about caching at all. 07:57:49 systems designers care a lot 07:57:54 that's about it 07:58:17 in particular, about L2 misses 07:58:19 And a handful of programmers working on high-performance code. 07:58:37 Like in x264. 07:59:07 i think "except for x264, it doesn't matter" pretty much covers it 07:59:24 Yeah. 07:59:33 Well, there *are* other video encoders. :P 08:00:04 Just not many *quite* as dependent on uberoptimisation to get encoding in real time. 08:00:04 I would say I guess, I would care if writing an assembly language program, for sure. But in C, it is different for different computer, usually it doesn't matter and | is usually the mostly clearly one to use, at least to me it is. 08:00:51 Anyways, the general rule on optimisation covers this. "Don't unless you can show it's actually fucking worth it." 08:01:23 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:01:49 quintopia: Incidentally, x264 actually cares extensively about L1 misses. I'm not fucking kidding. 08:02:57 i was thinking of systems programmers in regards to L2 misses, since they give a much bigger penalty. i assume x264 started caring about L1 misses once they'd shaved off every L2 miss they could 08:03:15 Well, yeah. 08:03:37 It is optimised to the point that L1 misses actually make a measurable difference. 08:06:27 man now i' 08:06:30 m inspired to code 08:06:46 Probably helps that it has an extensive number of very tight loops running dozens of times per frame. 08:08:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:13:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:24:05 i had a math dream! 08:24:17 it was fucking pathetic, but nice try i guess :D 08:24:40 I think I managed that after the linear algebra binge I had earlier this week. 08:25:02 Note to self: putting off 2.5 months of homework until the week it's all do is a bad idea. 08:25:41 better that than putting it off until it's all *don't*! 08:26:03 Well, yes. 08:26:15 My *recent* procrastination habits are a major improvement over my past habits. 08:26:25 I'm passing classes now! 08:26:31 good for you 08:26:38 i actually never need to pass another class 08:26:56 unless i want a degree past math 08:27:10 Yeah, it's kinda a bad thing to fail classes your freshman year. 08:27:40 i did! i failed this course called "introduction to computers" or something where we learned to excel 08:27:44 and stuff 08:28:26 I failed our "orientation for studying" class by sleeping when I was supposed to go to a "library exercise". 08:28:37 Then I redid on my fifth year or se. 08:29:16 i almost failed my bachelor's thesis seminar thingie because i skipped a library exercise 08:29:18 Try doing it on actually relevant classes. 08:29:37 Retaking calc III and physics I is t3h sucks. 08:29:42 pikhq: well i have attended like 5 lectures this year 08:29:48 they aren't mandatory here 08:29:53 Oh, well, physics I is actually completely *irrelevant*. 08:29:57 But you know what I mean. 08:30:39 you know, i knew what you meant until you said that, suddenly i'm not so sure 08:30:40 :P 08:31:12 oklofok: Is physics relevant to a CS degree? 08:31:15 I think not. 08:32:55 calculus isn't all that useful either in cs afaik 08:33:16 No, but I'm also wanting a math degree. 08:33:20 but at least it has some brain expansive properties 08:33:30 well yes 08:33:38 And calculus is pretty dang relevant to a math degree. 08:33:39 While physics can be used to expand... some entirely other regions. 08:33:55 fizzie: too much information 08:34:13 i already know statistics gives you a boner 08:34:28 fizzie: SCIENCE FETISHIST! 08:36:41 so about my dream, a proper coloring f is an assignment of numbers to vertices without edges uv such that f(u) = f(v); the list coloring number of graph G is the smallest number l such that if you give each vertex a list of color choices of size l, you can choose a color for each vertex in their list so that the coloring is proper 08:36:53 argh 08:36:58 phone rings - > 08:37:56 that was the coloring part, then let's talk about flows 08:38:49 * pikhq wonders at the bizarre math education scheme 08:39:41 arithmetic -> more arithmetic -> some geometry -> some algebra -> some geometry -> some algebra -> some trigonometry -> FIN 08:39:56 an orientation of a graph means you choose a direction for each edge (talking about finite undirected graphs here), an everywhere nonzero flow on G is an orientation of G plus a function f assigning whole numbers to edges such that sum of incoming stuff = sum of outgoing stuff, and no vertex has zero flow coming in 08:40:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:40:45 now there is this rather non-old (80's) theorem that says that every graph has such a flow using just numbers 0...5 on the edges 08:41:23 and even weirder, even the fact that for all G there exists any everywhere nonzero flow at all was proven only in 76 08:41:40 my dream was about proving this theorem from 76 08:42:36 and umm, what i did was i confused the nonzero flow number with the list coloring number, and tried to prove that every graph has a k such that from lists of size k you can always find a coloring 08:42:47 and i seriously thought about this for some time 08:42:50 then i woke up 08:43:56 and without realizing i had the wrong definition, in about a second i realized that it's obvious that k = number of vertices works, and simply because of K_7, 6 is not enough for all graphs and thus i must have the wrong definition 08:44:01 erm 08:44:09 i mean, without realizing i was proving the wrong theorem 08:44:34 so that's pretty much definitive proof that math is just off when i sleep. 08:45:45 but again, i thank my dream director for trying 08:45:58 * oklofok notices pikhq said something 08:46:59 Hah. 08:48:00 so if i understood correctly, they are trying some new notation for the division algorithm (i mean the algorithm you use to divide numbers), and some teachers decided to try to teach both the old and the new notation to kids 08:48:05 and no one learned to divide 08:48:45 because given 6/9, they didn't know which algorithm was the correct one to run 08:50:28 * pikhq should sleep 08:50:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:50:43 :\ 08:51:18 well i was gonna give him some quality math but i guess the man doesn't appreciate quality 08:54:43 so a quasiorder is a a=a, a a the minor theorem states 08:55:51 that if you have an infinite sequence G_1, G_2, G_3, ..., then there exist i, j such that G_i is a minor of G_j 08:56:30 the minor relation is obviously a quasiorder, and this also makes it a well-order 08:57:03 the fun thing is the minor theorem was proven in a sequence of articles containing about 500 pages put together 09:03:07 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:11:40 I found some stupid game show answers. "Who is the only Marx brother that remained silent throughout all their films?" "Karl." "What is the capital of Italy?" "France." "Name something people believe in but cannot see." "Hitler." 09:19:20 there are marx brothers who did films? 09:24:08 I don't know. 09:37:30 __TT___ ____ __ TH_ _________ (What are you doing?) 09:39:08 "BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC" fits neither the template nor the category. 09:44:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:54:28 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:56:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Tee hee, Brutus.). 09:56:58 there are marx brothers who did films? <-- come on, even I know that 09:57:13 oklofok, iirc they were back in the pre-colour movie era. 09:57:29 oklofok, comedy iirc 09:58:00 (that is about how much I know about them, wouldn't be able to answer the question zzo38 quoted) 10:00:43 well i have this really vague feeling i've heard 10:00:55 of "marx brothers" 10:01:10 but then i go "or was it the wright brothers?" 10:01:11 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:01:47 oklofok, the latter I think invented the first working motorised airplane 10:02:41 or one of the first at least 10:02:59 i've heard some conspiracy theories about this 10:03:04 oklofok, well, it is they who got the credit for the invention at least 10:03:10 sure 10:03:14 i have to go to work -> 10:03:54 oklofok, there were previous inventors who could have gotten it working. Some were too early, the internal combustion engine was not yet invented. Some died in experiments gone wrong. 10:04:05 cya 10:22:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:45:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:46:16 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:51:28 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 10:54:46 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:12 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:04 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:29:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:50:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:55:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:55:24 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 12:01:35 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]). 12:42:08 -!- azaq23 has joined. 12:47:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:54:32 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:59:14 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:05:27 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 13:06:49 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:19:39 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:22:58 -!- hiato has joined. 13:23:16 -!- hiato has left. 13:25:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:27:18 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:38:32 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 13:39:11 -!- cheater has joined. 14:01:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:11:53 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gr65o/18_year_old_reports_rape_police_dont_trust_her/c1ppnc2 14:12:02 God I really hate these people. 14:12:08 The doctors were SO IMPERSONAL 14:12:49 It's not like their job is to objectively analyse and attempt to cure my problems, rather than to be nice. 14:17:09 @tell elliott Looks like ED has actually been replaced for good. 14:17:09 Consider it noted. 14:30:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:42:59 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:12:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:15:07 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:42:23 -!- cheater- has joined. 15:44:49 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:53:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:56:05 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:56:35 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 16:08:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:21:26 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:37:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:54:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:58:35 -!- cheater00 has joined. 16:59:31 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:03:10 elliott: Arm actually said something that made sense! 17:06:32 your arm? :D:DSSSDDD 17:14:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:21:26 elliott: "In mid-2003 Introversion began selling the source code for the game, along with other tools on the Uplink Developer CD." <-- hmm! 18:05:11 -!- monqy has joined. 18:23:30 -!- elliott has joined. 18:23:35 help 18:23:36 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:23:47 @messages 18:23:48 Phantom_Hoover said 4h 6m 38s ago: Looks like ED has actually been replaced for good. 18:24:35 Not even a database backup? 18:24:57 Anyway, someone help me; I can't press the numbers above 0 and less than 9 on my laptop. `, which is right next to the successor of 0, works 18:25:04 Even with Fn or Alt or shift 18:25:12 xev sees nothing 18:25:13 Halp? 18:25:46 i can do my best to help you 18:25:53 so umm 18:25:57 take finger 18:25:59 put on 0 18:26:00 move right 18:26:04 try not to move too much 18:26:10 then drop 18:26:12 - 18:26:23 0 is at the right side of the numbers, dumbo 18:26:38 oh sorry let me try again 18:26:48 * oklofok thinks 18:27:08 what? 18:27:09 elliott, elliott: "In mid-2003 Introversion began selling the source code for the game, along with other tools on the Uplink Developer CD." <-- hmm! <-- however I can now add that bit rot quotient is high. Not worth the effort. 18:27:23 Vorpal: Pirate, eh? 18:27:32 what do you mean side of numbers, numbres don't have sides 18:27:37 Vorpal: Anyway, they offer Darwinia as access to a svn repository, which is way cooler :P 18:27:44 oklofok: it's `(numbers less than 9)90 18:27:46 elliott, wow indeed ! 18:27:46 that's not what geometry of numbers is lol :DDDD 18:28:01 elliott: okay i think i'm getting it 18:28:01 elliott, anyway uplink: lots of weird g++ errors 18:28:18 ./app/dos2unix.h:6:38: error: expected class-name before ‘{’ token <-- as far as I can tell there is no error there for example 18:28:21 so i guess you know more about fingers than me 18:28:38 Vorpal: Use gcc 9-...uh or something :P 18:28:42 i just know http://www.3news.co.nz/New-Zealand-man-cooked-and-ate-his-finger/tabid/423/articleID/207216/Default.aspx 18:28:44 elliott, this is after sed-ing around to fix iostream.h -> iostream and such, otherwise I don't get this far 18:28:45 I dunno how to formulate that number with only 9, 0 and arithmetic 18:28:57 anyway, Vorpal, plz to be helping 18:29:11 9/9 for 1 18:29:13 a 18:29:16 then go from there 18:29:21 monqy: ah, thanks 18:29:21 elliott, plus there is a perl script used in the make file that is missing, it seems to encrypt strings in some source files. For now I changed it to skip that step, since the perl script is nowhere to be found! 18:29:27 Vorpal: try g++ (9/9)+(9/9)+(9/9) 18:29:27 9/9 + 9/9 + 9/9 + 9/9 + 9/9 18:29:36 elliott, what? gcc 3? 18:29:37 hm 18:29:39 er 18:29:45 (9/9)+(9/9) 18:29:46 typo, sorry 18:29:51 elliott, gcc 2? 18:29:53 ye 18:29:54 s 18:29:56 well 18:30:00 it was released in two thousand and one 18:30:00 elliott, RIGHT. That would be painful 18:30:06 meh? not really 18:30:07 (9/9)+(9/9) and (9/9)+(9/9)+(9/9) are next to each other on the keyboard so it's understandable 18:30:08 use the compiler they did 18:30:18 was gcc three mature in say nine-teen ninety nine? 18:30:24 elliott, chances of getting it to run on my system... are low 18:30:33 gcc 2 that is 18:30:35 gcc three then 18:30:46 that might be doable 18:30:58 elliott: okay here goes: finger on NINE then go left but be careful 18:31:00 elliott, not sure I care enough though 18:31:02 "It may be that the act of actually cutting off his finger (and eating its flesh) made staff take him more seriously and provide the care and understanding that he longed for." 18:31:02 :D 18:31:13 Vorpal: so did you pyrate the game 18:31:18 elliott, anyway helping with what? " anyway, Vorpal, plz to be helping" 18:31:32 Vorpal: `90 18:31:39 Vorpal: that's what happens when i run over my number row 18:31:42 elliott: seriously this time i got it right 18:31:44 fn+, alt+, shift+, nothing works 18:31:48 xev does not report any events 18:31:53 keyboard is otherwise functioning perfectly 18:31:54 halp 18:32:08 elliott, not the game no. I found a friend who had it, and didn't play it any more. The dev cd, yes 18:32:20 rite 18:32:30 i would have given you it, but no optical drive 18:32:34 well i don't think the superdrive works in linux 18:32:37 also, i dunno where the disk is 18:32:39 also, i'm lazy and it's cheao 18:32:40 cheap 18:33:15 elliott, anyway, getting the game itself isn't that hard to get to work. In fact I think if I had used my laptop with ubuntu lts it would have worked out of box. Because I copied all the .so's that I needed from it. 18:33:18 ok 18:33:19 this site 18:33:21 has some fucking javascript 18:33:22 that stops me 18:33:24 selecting a whole paragraph 18:33:31 elliott, noscript! 18:33:32 fuck 18:33:32 that 18:33:33 shit 18:33:45 Vorpal: is there a version of noscript that only blocks shit like that? :) 18:34:03 elliott, you could select "globally enable scripts" and then leave it at that until you run into a site like this 18:34:18 i'd have to use firefox, though :( 18:34:41 elliott, isn't there a version for chrome? 18:34:55 elliott, anyway, just turning off javascript for now should work even in chrome 18:34:57 no official noscript, chrome does have js blocking features 18:35:00 that are pretty similar 18:35:00 or doesn't it have the option? 18:35:05 but i think it's only off-by-default 18:35:12 elliott, well, you could enable them for now? 18:35:16 (with a UI for whitelisting quickly) 18:35:23 http://cdn2.techie-buzz.com/images/postimg/arpit/BlockJavaScrip.NoScriptsfeaturesinChrome_18B/disablejavascriptchromenoscriptextension.png 18:35:44 btw 18:35:48 i can't update my system 18:35:50 or install packages 18:35:55 because i can't type my password 18:35:57 elliott, I find that quick whitelisting is really quick. And a shitload of sites load much faster without js. So if you have an old computer like I do, noscript is worth it. 18:36:03 because it has digits that are not 9 or 0 in it 18:36:15 because it has digits that are not 9 or 0 in it <-- what? 18:36:25 Vorpal: `90 18:36:25 Vorpal: that's what happens when i run over my number row 18:36:25 elliott: seriously this time i got it right 18:36:25 fn+, alt+, shift+, nothing works 18:36:25 xev does not report any events 18:36:26 keyboard is otherwise functioning perfectly 18:36:28 halp 18:36:42 elliott, what OS? 18:36:50 elliott, is this your macbook air? 18:36:55 ubuntu. yes. 18:37:02 elliott, does it work from OS X? 18:37:03 i might try os x... 18:37:05 this happened before a reboot btw 18:37:13 i was actually cleaning my keyboard 18:37:21 elliott, oh damn. With what? 18:37:22 it was at the password prompt since i hadn't realised i'd put it on stand-by 18:37:32 Vorpal: oh, i think i just enabled something 18:37:34 by pressing the kesy 18:37:45 elliott, oh. Right. Any clue what? 18:37:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:37:51 i thought maybe some number pad mode, but no 18:38:01 i'll try os x now... but since it persisted across a reboot i'm not hopeful 18:38:05 elliott, wait, if you are at gdm, look at the lower edge of the screen iirc. 18:38:12 what does it do 18:38:15 elliott, there is some "keyboard layout" thing 18:38:17 ah 18:38:21 elliott, iirc only after you typed user name 18:38:24 elliott, but before password 18:38:26 isn't that just language setting 18:38:28 which is different 18:38:33 elliott, not sure. Worth checking anyway 18:39:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:39:04 elliott, also try holding down shift for a time, could be some accessabilty thing (doesn't explain 1-8 though) 18:39:07 -!- elliott has joined. 18:39:11 elliott, also try holding down shift for a time, could be some accessabilty thing (doesn't explain 1-8 though) 18:39:20 Vorpal: It's not. Same result in OS X. 18:39:26 Fecking feckshit. 18:39:26 elliott, so broken hw? 18:39:37 elliott, what the fuck did you do when cleaning keyboard 18:39:39 Vorpal: Maybe. I need to figure out if you can reset the keyboard controller somehow. 18:39:42 elliott: solution #2, use Vorpal's keyboard, " elliott, also try holding down shift for a time, could be some accessabilty thing (doesn't explain 1-8 though)" 18:39:42 I mean seriously 18:39:44 I did absolutely nothing, srs 18:39:59 you will have two more 18:40:02 then use induction 18:40:13 oklofok: excellent 18:40:13 elliott, on screen keyboard might solve password 18:40:23 Vorpal: uh yeah that is sort of not a long-term solution 18:40:30 elliott, indeed not. 18:40:37 being useful is something i like being good at 18:40:40 elliott, warranty? 18:40:53 Vorpal: i believe so, i'd rather they didn't find all my goat porn though 18:41:00 heh 18:41:08 elliott, truecrypt 18:41:09 Vorpal: also they might decide Linux is a warranty-voider :) 18:41:33 iirc occasionally they decide to just give you a new one 18:41:36 and they copy the HD over 18:41:38 the issue being 18:41:44 do they literally copy the HD over ala dd 18:41:48 or do they just copy the OS X files 18:41:58 also it boots into linux unless you hold down opt, so yeah 18:42:05 elliott, okay how much of the keyboard circuits can you access? You could try checking with a multimeter if the signal reaches the controller at all 18:42:17 now you are just trolling me :) 18:42:18 yeah he'll do that 18:42:22 elliott, no, I'm serious 18:42:24 one, i don't have a multimeter 18:42:28 oh okay 18:42:32 two, my access is zero, unless i like 18:42:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:42:38 unscrewed the ultra-tiny screws 18:42:42 somehow punched past the battery stuff 18:42:53 poked a hole in the unified circuit board 18:43:01 then maybe i could access the keyboard circuit. 18:43:09 elliott, sorry, I'm used to the kind of computer where they consider the palm rest with the touchpad user replacable (yes, lenovo did that) 18:43:25 I'm not sure I agree, it was rather fiddly 18:43:52 Heck, maybe Apple have just decided that those digits aren't important enough for the space they take on the keyboard controller, and then updated my hardware in-place as I slept. 18:44:06 sounds like apple yeah 18:44:15 ".XXX domains go live.. will browsers automatically open .xxx sites in private browsing mode?" 18:44:19 first good justification for .xxx ever :D 18:44:23 joke aside, if it is hardware issue, you don't have much choice except using the warranty 18:44:32 i sure hope it isn't 18:44:45 tyrbnv 18:44:46 update 18:44:51 mashing the digit keys REAL HARD does nothing 18:44:58 the other day my crt started being all screwy so i turned it off for a while and now it's fine again 18:45:01 have you tried this 18:45:09 NO BUT I AM HOLDING DOWN SHIFT LIKE VORPAL SAID 18:45:56 elliott, oh and, if this is not the keyboard controller but something broken by cleaning it, then I will call apple "shit build quality"-company 18:45:58 more than before 18:46:19 anyway I very much doubt you can access or re-program the keyboard controller without opening the computer 18:46:26 unless the world changed a lot recently 18:46:34 Let's put it this way: it is impossible to access under the kesy. 18:46:38 keys 18:46:44 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:46:45 You can barely fit your nail in the tiny tiny gap. 18:46:54 And it's impossible to fit it in enough to lift the key. 18:46:59 elliott, I'm having some visions of upgrading firmware on this old PS/2 keyboard now XD 18:47:02 Nothing has physically happened to the keyboard controller. 18:47:23 elliott, so how did you clean the keyboard? Not lifting keys? 18:47:40 I will retract this statement if it turns out that one to eight form a row for the keyboard... 18:47:46 The matrixes are fucked up enough to allow that, right? 18:48:12 elliott, the matrices on a keyboard are so fucked up that nothing makes sense without seeing the matrix 18:48:23 :) 18:48:24 they usually do not correspond at all with the physical layout 18:48:28 at least i still have my smilies 18:48:43 Vorpal: right, so it's unlikely that those digits are consecutive in one thing that could break separately 18:49:07 elliott, well you said shift, ctrl, and fn were broken 18:49:10 Er, no. 18:49:18 no? 18:49:19 Just that shift+x ctrl+x fn+x does nothing for x in one to nine 18:49:35 elliott, oh, but 1-8 you said before? 18:49:37 not 1-9? 18:49:38 er 18:49:40 to eight 18:49:40 typo 18:49:42 right 18:49:43 well thinko 18:53:01 Greetings, 18:53:03 With acid-state-0.3, you can use regular Haskell data structures 18:53:03 without worrying about data loss or durability. Your state will simply 18:53:03 always be available to you even after software crashes or power 18:53:05 outages. 18:53:07 fuck yeah 18:53:11 if only i could type exclamation marks 18:53:20 elliott, I'm writing a rename function 18:53:24 To deal with conflicts 18:53:26 for what 18:53:30 Picolisp 18:53:35 why are you wasting your time 18:53:38 the library has no conflicts 18:53:58 anyway renaming is just... setq? 18:54:00 (setq foo bar) 18:54:01 Yes, because no one can ever write their own libraries 18:54:03 omg bar is now foo 18:54:20 Sgeo: oh, i forgot you specialise in caring intensely about stupid hypotheticals 18:54:26 ok i'm leaving os x now. 18:55:01 elliott, that doesn't help in the event of a public function using another public function that happens to collide 18:55:07 Next weekend could be good time to take a look at global allocation rates 15th and after. 18:55:13 Anyway, rename is trivial once I understood what to do 18:55:21 nothing will solve that fundamentally 18:55:26 since you could use any layers of parsing and eval 18:55:40 ? 18:55:55 (de test () (run-this "(colliding-function)")) 18:56:29 http://sprunge.us/EPXi 18:56:49 19:55 elliott: (de test () (run-this "(colliding-function)")) 18:56:51 Oh, I see 18:56:52 that will not be able to solve this. 18:57:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:58:09 "Assuming you start the Haskell runtime up only once (like this), on my machine, making a function call from C into Haskell, passing an Int back and forth across the boundary, takes about 80,000 cycles (31,000 ns on my Core 2) -- determined experimentally via the rdstc register" 18:58:17 haha when i was eighty thousand 18:58:18 i was expecting like 18:58:20 fifteen minutes 19:00:57 bleh so Vorpal any smart ideas :) 19:02:11 I wonder if Niki and the Robots will be a decent game or just a Haskell tech demo. 19:02:32 elliott, for the keyboard? Well not really no. Since you have no multimeter and a machine that is more or less a black box 19:02:55 I want answers based in RANDOM SPECULATION 19:03:19 elliott, you could try directing a tachyon flow with reversed polarity at it then 19:05:23 Oh, Global allocations for 15th: 91 136 IPv4 addresses (16x/32 and 6x/48 in IPv6 front). 19:05:58 gahh 19:06:05 even all the F keys work 19:11:06 Vorpal: this sucks :( 19:11:22 elliott, Bah, young kids today! Complaining about missing 1-8! Now when I was young we had to go uphill both ways to access even the single key a! 19:11:38 your MOM has the single key a 19:11:46 xD 19:11:56 heh 19:12:02 maybe i'll reset the SMC 19:12:17 elliott, SMC? 19:12:18 i was being SARCASTIC by the way 19:12:22 system management controller 19:12:34 controls fans, lihts, power, cpu speed 19:12:35 lights 19:12:48 elliott, oh, on classical PPC macs you could "zap PRAM" by holding down some key combo at start 19:12:52 fixing some weird issues 19:12:58 i know :) 19:13:03 elliott, is this something similar? 19:13:04 but not so many issues as SOME people thought 19:13:10 "I'm having troubles with my Mac" "ZAP THE PRAM" 19:13:18 elliott, indeed, what the hell was the PRAM for? 19:13:21 Vorpal: No, the equivalent nowadays is permissions[exclamation mark] 19:13:28 "I'm having trou-" "Use Disk Utility to fix the permissions" 19:13:55 elliott, I meant "is this something similar" in the "does it fill the same technical purpose" 19:14:08 Resetting the System Management Controller (SMC) 19:14:08 Resetting the SMC on Mac portables with a battery you can remove 19:14:09 Resetting the SMC on portables with a battery you should not remove on your own 19:14:11 best way to categorise ever 19:14:15 (from apple.com) 19:14:25 elliott, the latter I guess? 19:14:28 Vorpal: I don't think so, I think open firmware nvram is the closest? 19:14:28 and yes 19:14:37 shift-control-option and power button 19:14:38 elliott, what was the nvram for? 19:14:41 and release all of them simultaneously 19:14:44 ok 19:14:46 Vorpal: things 19:14:47 elliott, wait what? 19:14:51 elliott, at the same time? 19:14:52 how? 19:14:57 elliott, come on, you are only human 19:14:59 Vorpal: shut down computer, shift-control-option-powerkey 19:15:01 it's a key 19:15:03 then turn it on 19:15:09 how fast does it sample the keyboard 19:15:09 http://sprunge.us/BFNf 19:15:12 who knows 19:15:17 elliott, remember you have to release them IN THE SAME SAMPLE 19:15:19 says apple 19:15:23 yes yes yes 19:15:27 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:30 elliott, which is utterly silly 19:15:33 gah 19:15:51 elliott: on a related note, you are rather unhateful nowadays, have you started smoking weed or something? 19:17:08 -!- elliott has joined. 19:17:11 didn't work. 19:17:11 fuck. 19:18:15 elliott, so warranty it is. Copy the image of ubuntu then remove it? 19:18:21 ugh 19:18:22 to what 19:18:26 it's a lot of gigs 19:18:34 elliott, backup external hdd? 19:18:43 I don't have one :) 19:18:47 elliott, or just copy what you need from it, then do the install manually after? 19:18:54 what I need is also several gigs 19:18:58 (big torrents) 19:19:39 elliott, come on a backup external hdd is just a few hundred SEK. Not sure what that is £. 10-20 £ maybe? 19:20:02 I know. 19:20:10 I'd just rather explore every other option first because installing Ubuntu on this was a BITCH. 19:20:27 also, it would almost certainly take weeks, which is lame 19:21:38 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:22:21 blehhh 19:22:22 WHY ME 19:24:01 oklopol fix my computer 19:25:30 Gregor: If you don't fix my computer, Fythe will be unable to handle numbers from one to eight, inclusively. 19:27:42 I NEED 19:27:42 MY 19:27:43 NUMBERS 19:28:47 elliott: i had another idea, have you considered using your keyboard *before* it stopped working? 19:28:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:29:17 do you have any virtual keyboards 19:31:13 on-screen? 19:31:16 yes 19:31:19 that's uh, kinda inconvenient 19:32:15 can someone say an octothorpe 19:32:20 i want to join a new channel but option+three won't work 19:33:58 HELLO 19:34:02 CAN I HAVE AN OCTOTHORPE 19:34:03 TAHNKA 19:34:27 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:34:34 CAN 19:34:35 I HAVE 19:34:38 AN OCTOTHORPE 19:34:39 SLEREAH 19:36:40 you are all terrible people 19:36:49 i can't even type a bot trigger to ask a bot to do it for me 19:41:00 elliott: That's not much of a ransom demand since it's my repo :P 19:42:55 Gregor: I will simply be unable to write code to handle one to eight 19:43:32 It already handles one to eight :P 19:43:41 And besides that, I too am a codar 19:45:09 http://9gag.com/gag/104879/ The best cat 19:45:32 lol at "reddit" account 19:45:35 step one, set up site 19:45:41 step two, make site get all content from reddit 19:45:42 PROFIT 19:47:27 http://i.imgur.com/Y1HPH.jpg The best cat 19:47:28 :P 19:48:40 Gregor, finally a cat picture that *isn't* cute. 19:48:57 because while it is awesome, you can't call it cute 20:05:29 elliott, ugh, uplink is littered with inline asm 20:05:37 Vorpal: Awesome 20:05:48 elliott, where does x86_64 keep the frame pointer 20:05:53 Erm 20:05:53 I need to rewrite this bit 20:05:55 Somewhere 20:05:56 Ask Gregor 20:05:59 elliott, *which register* 20:06:01 okay 20:06:03 rsp? 20:06:05 rep? 20:06:06 rbp? 20:06:08 rxp? 20:06:09 rpeepee? 20:06:12 asm ( 20:06:12 "movl %%ebp, %0;" 20:06:12 :"=r"(framePtr) 20:06:12 ); 20:06:16 rbp presumably 20:06:17 that is what I'm trying to translate 20:06:24 rbp 20:06:26 right 20:06:28 you want movq 20:06:29 not movl 20:06:33 and change it to a long 20:06:40 (framePtr that is) 20:06:42 It's more common to vomit it on x86_64 than on x86 though. 20:06:42 well 20:06:43 elliott, it is a pointer 20:06:46 if it's a pointer that's fine 20:06:49 Gregor: "Vomit it"? 20:06:53 Oh, omit it. 20:06:57 -vomit-frame-pointer 20:07:12 anyway I doubt this is critical, the code seems to be for generating a back trace 20:07:58 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../include/c++/4.5.2/bits/fstream.tcc:837:5: error: ‘int std::basic_filebuf<_CharT, _Traits>::sync() [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits]’ is protected 20:07:59 anyone? 20:08:33 this is in "dos2unixbuf::sync", the name scares me 20:09:53 /bin/sh: ./configure: /bin/sh^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory 20:09:54 FUN 20:10:14 okay, so dos2unix 20:11:46 i like how you need to use dos-to-unix to get some code called dostounix to work 20:11:59 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../include/c++/4.5.2/bits/fstream.tcc:837:5: error: ‘int std::basic_filebuf<_CharT, _Traits>::sync() [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits]’ is protected 20:12:05 Vorpal: the code is initiating a bad template 20:12:09 it will tell you where in the source file 20:12:10 lower down 20:12:12 or above 20:12:27 argh, the only toenail i want to bite is just out of reach 20:12:36 noted 20:12:51 i can reach it's corner but not the part that's really screwy 20:13:22 maybe i should try that yoga thing 20:13:36 okay succeeded 20:16:51 `addquote all that 20:17:13 -!- news-ham has joined. 20:17:15 welcome back, News Ham 20:17:18 well i have no idea where the nearest scissors are 20:17:19 news-ham 20:17:21 Croat generals jailed for crimes: Two Croatian military leaders are jailed for war crimes committed in the 1990s, provoking anger in Zagreb where many regard them as war heroes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-europe-13092438 20:17:29 "Croat" 20:17:31 best adjective 20:18:48 oerjan: cheney on the mta is not just implemented in scheme 20:18:58 the "standard" version uses setjmp/longjmp, mind you 20:19:20 00:43:12: * oerjan imagines that like a game where the bishops are invisible, unless they capture something you only get to know _that_ they move, and you can only capture one if you can deduce that it _has_ to be in a particular spot 20:19:20 00:45:49: well unless the owner player decides it _is_ in a spot, to prevent you from capturing/going somewhere else 20:19:20 00:46:37: but if the owning player cannot give at least one consistent route for where the bishops have been, he loses. 20:19:20 00:46:59: the last could get particularly tricky when you consider the interaction with the _other_ player's bishops... 20:19:23 sounds like a computer could help :) 20:20:26 that might actually be a lot of fun, done right 20:20:31 yeah 20:20:34 now apply it to _all_ pieces 20:20:36 except like 20:20:40 one pawn and the king 20:20:42 to get things going 20:20:43 then it would probably suck 20:20:50 ok yeah :D 20:21:03 i don't like how the owner can decide it's somewhere, though 20:21:07 it should always be up to the rules 20:21:10 but a really simplistic game based on having visible and invisible pieces that use the same simple moving rules 20:21:34 and the invisible ones can only be killed by forcing them on some square and attacking it 20:21:38 "This essay is yet another attempt to reconcile the power of the Lisp programming language with the inability of the Lisp community to reproduce their pre-AI Winter achievements." 20:21:40 ... 20:21:53 so basically, "You guys discovered AI isn't as easy as it looks: YOUR FAULT" 20:22:23 "Now make this thought experiment interesting: Imagine adding object orientation to the C and Scheme programming languages. Making Scheme object-oriented is a sophomore homework assignment. On the other hand, adding object orientation to C requires the programming chops of Bjarne Stroustrup." 20:22:25 no it doesn't? 20:22:29 you can implement objects in a small file of C 20:22:32 then it's just syntactic sugar 20:23:01 this article is just a rambling form of the old boring argument "MACROS = YOU ALL USE YOUR OWN INDIVIDUAL DIALECT OF LISP AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COLLABORATE LOL" 20:23:27 "In a world where teams of talented academics were needed to write Haskell, one man, Dr. Tarver wrote Qi all by his lonesome." 20:23:29 i gather you're reading something now 20:23:38 if he means implementation he's obviously wrong, jhc was written mostly by one person to start with 20:23:43 oklopol: 01:12:44: http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html 20:24:13 i assume you wrote that because how else could the author know the exact opposites of your opinions 20:24:42 :D 20:24:45 i don't disagree with all of it 20:24:49 i just think it's a stupid article 20:24:50 which it is 20:25:01 "Answer: The Lisp Curse kicks in. Every second or third serious Lisp hacker will roll his own implementation of lazy evaluation, functional purity, arrows, pattern matching, type inferencing, and the rest." 20:25:05 arrows - a language feature 20:25:39 "The Lisp Curse does not contradict the maxim of Stanislav Datskovskiy" 20:25:42 so that's where he learned verbosity 20:26:27 so um 20:26:35 this webdesign company specialises in making websites as ugly as this essay apparently? 20:26:56 elliott: Even uglier! 20:27:03 http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/ 20:27:07 FUCK YEAH WEB DESIGN 20:27:15 "face-to-face" WHY DOES THAT MATTER 20:27:28 cool, the about page is like an older version of the home page 20:29:22 05:46:17: pikhq: I could've sworn you'd linked to a set of heisig stories at some point 20:29:23 05:46:23: maybe I'm just confused 20:29:23 05:46:25: I don't recall one. 20:29:26 he did. 20:29:39 elliott: lol, it is X-D 20:30:00 * Portfolio: Coming soon! 20:30:02 I doubt it :P 20:30:08 i like how the spacing on the menu changes when you change page 20:30:10 very artistic 20:30:24 wow, this is the first website i've seen that codu.org is better-designed than 20:30:31 [asterisk][exclamation mark] 20:30:42 maybe i'll just use unicode codepoint names in brackets 20:31:00 05:59:58: In completely unrelated news, I have finally found a replacement for Make that I like. 20:31:00 06:00:49: Called "redo". A third-party implementation of a djb idea. 20:31:05 erm i believe i linked that ages ago ;D 20:31:08 anyway, it's not that nice imo 20:31:20 tup is better: http://gittup.org/tup/ 20:31:33 "See the difference? The arrows go up. This makes it very fast." 20:31:49 (Explanation: "In a typical build system, the dependency arrows go down. Although this is the way they would naturally go due to gravity, it is unfortunately also where the enemy's gate is. This makes it very inefficient and unfriendly. In tup, the arrows go up. This is obviously true because it rhymes.") 20:32:03 ... huh. 20:32:07 What :P 20:32:16 Does that have any meaning at all? :P 20:32:20 Yes :P 20:32:23 It clarifies on the page. 20:32:33 I refuse to read it. 20:32:48 Read this oh-so-professional paper instead: http://gittup.org/tup/build_system_rules_and_algorithms.pdf 20:32:49 I can only assume that it refers to the order in which dependencies are listed in files (leaf to root or root to leaf) 20:32:55 Nope :P 20:32:57 It's about the DAG. 20:33:14 tup's way of handling dependencies -> faster builds, in fact optimal in some cases. 20:33:20 Oh kaaaaaaaay ... but the direction you choose to make the arrows appear in the DAG makes roughly no difference whatsoever ... 20:33:29 Gregor: Read the fucking paper X-D 20:33:37 Gregor: The orientation is the same, but the arrows are reversed. 20:33:38 So instead of 20:33:49 hello_world from foo.o (from foo.c, foo.h) and bar.o (from foo.h, bar.c), it's 20:34:04 Anyway, I still refuse to read 'cuz I'm awesome like that, so *AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY* :P 20:34:11 foo.c to foo.o to hello world, foo.h to (foo.o to hello_world) and (bar.o to hello world), bar.c to bar.o to hello_world 20:34:15 Which is faster 20:34:20 [exclamation mark] 20:34:50 Anyway, it has better time complexity, is optimal in some cases unlike make, and is faster in practice :P 20:35:42 i read the lisp thing all by myself 20:36:06 06:11:08: Yeah, I'm not saying you did. 20:36:07 06:11:12: I'm just saying: :D 20:36:07 06:11:32: Oh, yeah, and there's a subset of its functionality written in 150 lines of shell script. 20:36:07 06:11:43: Not even very dense lines of shell script. 20:36:07 that is not really relevant to whether it is a good build system or not, only to whether it is simple 20:36:11 In fact, it's pretty dishonest 20:36:16 redo is based on shell-script-type things 20:36:28 all that thing does is essentially recursive sh :) 20:36:37 elliott, are you aware of how many protected symbols there are in Picolisp? 20:36:48 tup is probably a simpler model but harder to implement so shortly because sh/all languages suck :) 20:36:53 or rather, are not as tuned to the problem 20:37:23 06:42:47: i wonder if our minecrafters are gonna get sucked into this one soon also: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/21/love-grows-stronger-deeper-cheaper/ 20:37:23 don't like the blurriness 20:37:24 but maybe fun 20:37:45 (mapc zap (diff (all) '(meth NIL *Pid *Msg *Solo *Led *PPid This *Hup @@@ bye *OS *DB *Zap *Ext quote *Sig2 *Sig1 *Err *Dbg @@ *Bye *Uni *Tsm *Adr *Fork ^ T @ *Run *Class *Scl))) 20:37:56 that's not much 20:37:56 bye isn't protected 20:38:17 I just wanted to be able to exit, and forgot about the ability to segfault at will 20:38:26 xD wat 20:38:29 It felt like much when I was determinign that list one bit at a time 20:38:37 what's the diff between mapc and mapcar 20:38:42 Sgeo: you could have automated it... 20:38:43 Not sure 20:38:46 elliott, how? 20:38:48 with (all) 20:38:49 duh 20:38:50 catch doesn't catch the error 20:38:58 look at property list? 20:39:09 everything is stored in there 20:39:11 so... 20:39:36 I don't get your point 20:40:04 so whether a symbol is protected or not 20:40:07 should reflect in its property list 20:40:11 because picolisp stores all data in cells 20:40:16 That information doesn't seem to be in its property list 20:40:27 well, it's SOMEWHERE :) 20:40:34 In the C code, I'd guess 20:40:35 look at the C impl? 20:40:42 aren't you on sixty-four bit? 20:40:48 No 20:40:51 weird 20:40:56 Too lazy 20:41:08 06:54:56: 3 lines for automatically calculating the dependencies for a C file... :) 20:41:14 let's be fair, it takes about that many lines in make, too 20:41:26 IIRC tup works it out automatically 20:41:42 I may be wrong, though 20:41:49 Sgeo: you said you spent ages of time trying exhaustively 20:41:57 anyway it could easily be implemented 20:42:04 try to modify all symbols and then put the value back 20:42:10 error --> that's your next protected symbol 20:42:13 and store it manually in a list 20:42:16 to remove from the list of all symbols 20:42:17 then repeat 20:42:22 final list is protected symbols 20:42:34 "store it manually" 20:42:35 elliott, oh my, where can I find freetype 1? 20:42:36 in fact, you could do it easily with a shell script invoking picolisp too 20:42:44 Vorpal: debian archives? 20:42:46 elliott, ah 20:42:52 Sgeo: (push "Protected" 'name) 20:42:58 have a function for it, p 20:42:59 (p 'name) 20:46:27 oh wait, it is included with this cd 20:46:29 how nice 20:46:42 elliott, btw I found one cause of weirdness was missing "using namespace std;" 20:46:54 Vorpal: ah, here is a better explanation of paperclipping: http://www.singinst.org/blog/2007/06/11/the-stamp-collecting-device/ 20:46:55 ftdump.c:172:1: error: pasting "." and "glyph_object" does not give a valid preprocessing token <--- ... ... great ... 20:47:04 just remove the hash-hash 20:47:05 to fix 20:47:28 well, actually a good (very shallow) summary of the risks of AI in general 20:47:41 FOOTPRINT( first_instance ); 20:47:41 hm 20:47:48 #define FOOTPRINT( field ) Save_Memory( &memory_footprint.##field ) 20:47:50 ah indeed 20:50:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:51:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:52:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:56 elliott, btw, autoconf works perfectly once you copy in a new config.guess that knows about x86_64 20:55:02 heh 20:55:28 elliott, say what you want about autoconf, it is very sturdy 20:55:45 Vorpal: You should send Introversion a diff and info about the config.guess update, maybe they'd make an "official" release of it. 20:55:59 I guess you'd need to assign copyright though... 20:56:07 elliott, well, the *developer cd* I, um, ... 20:56:14 Vorpal: THEY KNOW NOTHING 20:56:17 Send it anonymously 20:56:18 :D 20:56:29 Signed, 20:56:30 DEEP BIT 20:56:30 elliott, well the diff is huge so far. I do keep it all under hg. 20:56:48 elliott, I guess it would be risk free if I jump between enough systems on the way! 20:56:58 THEY'LL NEVER TRACK YOU DOWN IN TIME 20:57:02 FTEngine.C:22:22: fatal error: freetype.h: No such file or directory <-- wait what, it is there 20:57:20 elliott, you mean, before my death? 20:57:21 Try -isystem. 20:57:25 It's probably doing 20:58:08 elliott, uh what, I do have -I there. I passed "free type is in here" thingy to configure 20:58:19 elliott, the issue was #include "freetype.h" 20:58:22 PLUS 20:58:28 it is in freetype/freetype.h 20:58:32 Ah. 20:58:35 And I said -isystem. 20:58:38 -I doesn't let you load . 20:58:39 Just "x". 20:58:43 -isystem lets you do both. 20:59:02 (I think?) 20:59:07 I know -isystem turns off warnings in headers included from there. 20:59:08 elliott, that would mean rerunning autoconf I think... *That* would be more problematic 20:59:14 I think. 20:59:21 Vorpal: Or just modifying the Makefile or invoking make with CFLAGS. 20:59:44 elliott, right. There is a meta-makefile invoking configure and make 20:59:49 Ouch. 20:59:51 elliott, for various third party libraryes 20:59:53 libraries* 21:00:50 "I think we just have to swallow the bitter pill that Nick is feeding us here: it’s far easier to build a GAI that destroys the entire planet than a GAI that does anything else, and this holds true even if you weren’t trying to code the GAI to destroy the planet." 21:00:52 omg 21:00:59 this means that the universe PREFERS AIs which destroy the world 21:01:01 GOD HATES THE WORLD 21:01:11 FTGlyphVectorizer.h:79:5: error: a class-key must be used when declaring a friend 21:01:11 FTGlyphVectorizer.h:79:5: error: friend declaration does not name a class or function 21:01:12 the fuck? 21:01:22 I have zero idea what that is 21:02:04 elliott, ANY IDEA? 21:02:13 Vorpal: Uh. Show me the line. 21:02:31 friend FTGlyphVectorizer; 21:02:36 Show me the file. 21:02:39 sec 21:02:45 VORPAL VIOLATES YET MORE LAWA 21:02:46 friend class FTGlyphVectorizer; 21:02:47 LAWS 21:02:50 elliott, it is causing errors in the .C file that corresponds to this .h 21:02:54 Do what Deewiant said :P 21:02:57 I wonder what that's for? 21:03:06 friend typename? friend union? 21:03:10 Deewiant, ah 21:03:11 oh 21:03:12 for functions? 21:03:18 I guess older C++ lacked function friends or something. 21:03:36 GLTTGlyphPolygonizer.C:188:58: error: invalid conversion from 'void (*)(...)' to 'void (*)()' 21:03:36 GLTTGlyphPolygonizer.C:188:58: error: initializing argument 3 of 'void gluTessCallback(GLUtesselator*, GLenum, void (*)())' 21:03:37 great 21:03:44 at least that one I think I could tackle 21:04:03 MAYBE 21:04:46 Vorpal: The first just needs a cast :P 21:04:52 elliott, there is a cast! 21:04:56 Err, there's only one error. 21:04:58 Vorpal: What kind? 21:05:05 Try reinterpret, aka THE NUCLEAR CAST. 21:05:09 #if defined(WIN32) && !defined(__CYGWIN32__) 21:05:09 typedef void (CALLBACK *glu_callback)(CALLBACKARG); 21:05:09 #else 21:05:09 typedef void CALLBACK (*glu_callback)(CALLBACKARG); 21:05:09 #endif 21:05:10 gluTessCallback( tobj, GLenum(GLU_BEGIN), 21:05:11 (glu_callback) gltt_polygonizer_begin ); 21:05:23 reinterpret_cast(gltt_...) 21:05:24 typedef inside a function yay 21:05:32 (I wasn't even aware that was possible) 21:06:02 elliott, no luck. 21:06:11 elliott, I think gluTessCallback might have changed prototype 21:06:12 Same error? 21:06:14 that would explain it 21:06:22 elliott, same error yes 21:06:34 Vorpal: Remove CALLBACKARG or replace it with ... :P 21:06:40 Or figure out where it's defined and fix that. 21:07:02 /usr/include/GL/glu.h:typedef void (GLAPIENTRYP _GLUfuncptr)(); 21:07:07 GLAPIENTRYP 21:07:08 nice word 21:07:11 Vorpal: The reason you can't convert (void (asterisk)(...)) to (void (asterisk)()) is because varargs functions can have as fucked up a call mechanism as they want. 21:07:16 (Convert safely, that is.) 21:07:28 Vorpal: Just make sure CALLBACKARG is empty, then. 21:07:36 #if defined(__GNUC__) || defined(_GNUG_) 21:07:36 #define CALLBACKARG ... 21:07:36 #else 21:07:36 #define CALLBACKARG void 21:07:36 #endif 21:07:37 hah 21:07:40 Right. 21:07:42 Make it empty (not void). 21:07:54 hm... // IMHO, the (...) vs. (void) warning is due to GNU-C/C++. 21:08:06 elliott, this file is .C 21:08:09 elliott, empty means void 21:08:12 Vorpal: Oh, right. 21:08:15 Even in a function pointer? 21:08:19 elliott, afaik yes 21:08:25 Just make it define it as void then? 21:08:26 could be wrong, I'm not a C++ expert 21:08:28 That's what the function _wants_, isn't it? 21:08:29 Bleh. 21:08:35 Yeah, make it void. 21:08:37 It should work. Maybe. 21:08:39 But maybe not. 21:08:40 elliott, the issue is that these functions seem to have meaningful parameters... 21:08:46 Yeah, but it'll work :P 21:08:50 static void CALLBACK gltt_polygonizer_begin( GLenum type ) 21:08:50 { 21:08:50 if( handler != 0 ) 21:08:50 handler->begin(int(type)); 21:08:50 } 21:08:53 Vorpal: Ooh wait, you could cast gluTessCallback itself. 21:09:01 To take the right kind of argument. 21:09:03 elliott, if it is void how could this function possibly work? 21:09:06 Then call that casted function pointer. 21:09:10 Vorpal: Because invalid C programs work. 21:09:20 Calling conventions are generally uniform on xeightsix-sixtyfour/Linux. 21:09:22 elliott, uh, it is called with another function pointer to one that takes void* 21:09:26 Calling conventions are generally uniform on xeightsix-sixtyfour/Linux. 21:09:40 elliott, that was a reply to " Vorpal: Ooh wait, you could cast gluTessCallback itself." 21:09:44 Yes. 21:09:52 Cast it to take the kind of type Uplink thinks it takes/wants to giv eit. 21:10:02 asterisk give it 21:10:09 elliott, doing the void define worked 21:10:13 now onto the next error 21:10:27 GLTTGlyphPolygonizerHandler.h:41:3: error: 'GLTTGlyphPolygonizer' does not name a type 21:10:28 GLTTGlyphPolygonizerHandler.C: In constructor 'GLTTGlyphPolygonizerHandler::GLTTGlyphPolygonizerHandler(int)': 21:10:31 hrrm 21:10:34 Just remove the if from the define,t hen 21:10:37 asterisk , then 21:10:39 GLTTGlyphPolygonizerHandler.C:42:3: error: 'polygonizer' was not declared in this scope 21:10:41 Make it define it as void unconditionally. 21:10:46 elliott, I did that... 21:10:49 elliott, in the cast 21:10:50 Vorpal: First one: Put class in front. 21:10:55 Second one: Probably solved by that. 21:11:16 Vorpal: I would do it outside the cast. 21:11:20 elliott, wait what, not class there 21:11:23 Define CALLBACKARG as void unconditionally in that code you pasted. 21:11:23 it is 21:11:25 Vorpal: Show the line 21:11:26 private: 21:11:27 GLTTGlyphPolygonizer* polygonizer; // set by GLTTGlyphPolygonizer 21:11:33 Where is GLTTGlyphPolygonizer defined 21:11:50 looking... 21:12:20 elliott, in a file that wasn't included 21:12:26 Problem solved. 21:12:32 now I'm scared how that could possibly have worked back then! 21:12:32 How did this ever use to compile.. 21:12:36 [asterisk]... 21:12:40 elliott, hah, great minds think alike 21:13:13 oooh this is a good one... 21:13:15 Would anyone like to give me a shiny laptop to use while this one is being repaired? :P 21:13:17 #ifndef __FTGlyphVectorizer_h 21:13:18 #include "FTGlyphVectorizer.h" 21:13:18 #endif 21:13:27 include guard.... around the include! 21:13:32 Vorpal[exclamation mark] I bet you're not using your ThinkPad[exclamation mark] 21:13:39 Also, that's a saner way to do include guards, just not in C :P 21:13:40 sure I am 21:13:47 Avoids a file access/read/lex/etc. 21:14:08 but the define it checks is defined in the included file 21:14:15 elliott, how does that spreading out make any sense 21:14:42 elliott, besides the include guard is also in the included file 21:14:43 Vorpal: because include guards are used when you include the same file multiple times in the space of one compilation 21:14:55 Doing it around the include avoids looking at the include file itself when it has already been included 21:14:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:15:00 which is generally expensive (disk access, etc.) 21:15:10 "The first draft of the R7RS small language standard is now 21:15:10 available at: 21:15:10 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs-draft-1.pdf 21:15:10 This is a relatively small revision to the R5RS 21:15:13 [...] 21:15:14 elliott, disk cache 21:15:14 Most importantly, we have added modules" 21:15:14 fail 21:15:22 Vorpal: Ha 21:15:26 Vorpal: Still a roundtrip. 21:15:32 Vorpal: And more important is lexical analysis/preprocessing. 21:15:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:15:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:15:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:15:46 Doing it around has no disadvantages other than being ugly, which is why I said it is not better in C. 21:16:06 lo, it has modules and exceptions and records 21:16:08 elliott, I wonder if I should skip building the bundled libmikmod, it errors out with thousands of errors on one file... And hope that the system one will be compatible 21:16:25 [asterisk]lol, 21:16:39 * The set of characters used is required to be consistent with 21:16:39 the latest Unicode standard only in so far as the 21:16:39 implementation supports Unicode. 21:16:51 so when Unicode eight comes out, all implementations will become spec-incompliant[exclamation mark] 21:17:03 elliott, what a silly name: libtcp4u 21:17:07 s/ / 7 21:17:08 gah 21:17:12 s/7/\// 21:17:13 can someone link me to r five rs, kinda hard to google 21:17:16 if you can't type five 21:17:28 also, what 21:17:32 oh 21:17:33 right 21:17:40 unicode seven 21:17:43 elliott, here is a 1234567890 bar for you 21:17:52 you are the first person to do that for me 21:17:58 i can never express how grateful i am 21:18:02 ...can i have an octothorpe too? 21:18:14 a what? 21:18:24 it's in the topic 21:18:27 can you copy from the topic 21:18:34 * Vorpal looks up there 21:18:39 optional procedure: (transcript-on filename) 21:18:39 optional procedure: (transcript-off) 21:18:40 Filename must be a string naming an output file to be created. The effect of transcript-on is to open the named file for output, and to cause a transcript of subsequent interaction between the user and the Scheme system to be written to the file. The transcript is ended by a call to transcript-off, which closes the transcript file. Only one transcript may be in progress at any time, though some impleme 21:18:40 ntations may relax this restriction. The values returned by these procedures are unspecified. 21:18:44 lol, can't believe rFIVErs has that 21:18:46 monqy, what is the symbol? 21:18:51 octothorpe 21:18:59 octothorpe 21:18:59 elliott, oh a hash 21:19:00 # 21:19:05 THANK YOU :D 21:19:09 * elliott so happy 21:19:11 elliott, call a hash a hash 21:19:15 octothorpe 21:19:17 it's called an octothorpe 21:19:31 elliott, here is the shifted row on my keyboard: !"#¤%&/()= 21:19:39 elliott, it probably doesn't correspond to your 21:20:05 elliott, but anyway why the fuck would you call it that 21:20:23 presumably because that's what it's called 21:20:27 Number sign 21:20:27 (Redirected from Octothorpe) 21:20:29 * elliott reverts an edit of a past discussion on esowiki... 21:20:32 just saying 21:20:51 monqy, actually it has many names 21:20:55 octothorpe is the least ambiguous name. 21:20:59 for instance 21:21:01 in the US it's the pound sign 21:21:17 elliott, in Sweden it is often called "brädgård" 21:21:32 meaning lumberyard 21:21:37 probably from how it looks 21:21:44 like a lumberyard? 21:21:45 (liked piled up planks) 21:21:48 hash. hex. pound. sharp. space. square 21:21:56 octothorpe is the only completely unambiguous name. also it sounds nice. 21:21:58 monqy, a pile of planks 21:22:03 monqy, seen from the top 21:22:13 what's the swedish word for a pile of planks as seen from the top 21:22:18 a shebang is an octothorpe and a bang[exclamation m[caret]W[caret]Wbang] 21:22:27 it's like i'm in the sixties[exclamation mark] 21:22:40 monqy, uh? I don't know any. I'm just saying that is what it is thought to resemble. Meaning it got the name lumberyard 21:27:20 I WANT MY NUMBERS BACK 21:27:25 elliott, you know what... this uplink uses both freetype 1 and 2. At the same time. 21:27:30 NUMBERS 21:27:33 I WANT MY NUMBERS BACK 21:27:44 elliott, complain to apple 21:28:23 I 21:28:24 WANT 21:28:24 MY 21:28:26 NUMBERRRRS 21:28:26 NOOOOW 21:28:29 CAN'T COOOODE 21:29:35 elliott, oh no, you will become a PH 21:29:49 but i had the best ideaaaaa 21:29:57 I WILL RECLUSIFY INTO CAVE FOREVER -> 21:32:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:32:22 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:32:40 app/dos2unix.cpp: In member function ‘virtual int dos2unixbuf::pbackfail(int)’: 21:32:40 app/dos2unix.cpp:67:20: error: ‘base’ was not declared in this scope 21:33:03 elliott, issue, it is inheriting from streambuf in libstdc++ 21:33:06 -!- wareya has joined. 21:33:07 as far as I can tell 21:33:13 elliott, help! 21:33:16 uh 21:33:19 show me the function 21:33:21 or 21:33:22 the header 21:33:23 or anything 21:33:26 or the line 21:33:33 elliott, http://sprunge.us/EdcX 21:33:40 elliott, basically there is no base() here 21:33:57 http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/iostream/streambuf/pbackfail/ 21:34:02 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa277867(v=vs.60).aspx 21:34:09 http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0/index.jsp?topic=/com.qnx.doc.dinkum_en_ecpp/streambu.html 21:34:13 http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gcc/gcc-937.2/libio/streambuf.cc 21:34:17 Vorpal: Does glibc not have it? 21:34:18 elliott, maybe you need to add c? 21:34:23 elliott, for the parameter 21:34:29 Yes, add the parameter. 21:34:38 Failing that, glibc is Trying To Be Different again :) 21:34:43 nope, no luck 21:35:00 elliott, also you mean libstc++ 21:35:02 not glibc 21:35:09 stdc* 21:35:30 Oh, it's part of gcc, isn't it? 21:35:33 Or... is it part of glib? 21:35:34 I forget. 21:35:35 glibc 21:35:38 [asterisk][asterisk] 21:35:40 elliott, gcc I think 21:35:44 Right. Pretty weird. 21:35:51 libc used to be bundled with gcc, so I guess it's heritage. 21:36:10 elliott, wait, do you need to add some virtual somewhere maybe 21:36:12 hrrm 21:36:25 Vorpal: OK, wait. 21:36:28 Since when is base anything? 21:36:29 Base is nothing. 21:36:31 I have never heard of base. 21:36:33 Base does not exist. 21:36:35 Where is base declared? 21:36:42 uh indeed hm 21:36:46 elliott, other languages has it 21:36:49 but not C++ I guess 21:36:51 wtf 21:36:51 No they don't, they have super. 21:36:56 elliott, C# has base() 21:37:00 This is not Chash. 21:37:02 Sorry. 21:37:05 Coctothorpe. 21:37:07 elliott, I said *other languages* 21:37:10 some other ones 21:37:21 Well I've never heard of base. I don't know what is going onthere. 21:37:21 Wait. 21:37:22 elliott, the name is actually "C sharp" 21:37:23 gptr() > base() 21:37:30 base() is the base of the pointer that gptr returns the current value of. 21:37:35 That is the only way that makes sense. 21:37:48 Yep. 21:37:51 streambuf has base, it looks like. 21:37:57 char_type * gptr () const 21:37:57 char_type * egptr () const 21:38:01 Vorpal: Have you tried this->base() or something? 21:38:02 from man std::streambuf 21:38:05 hm 21:38:13 elliott, there is char_type * pbase () const 21:38:16 Vorpal: Have you tried this->base() or something? 21:38:20 base is in streambuf, says google. 21:38:22 elliott, I guess I'll do it. 21:38:29 Or, well, at least in Microsoft. :P 21:38:43 elliott, what does it do? 21:38:50 Returns the base to the pointer or something. 21:38:56 app/dos2unix.cpp:67:21: error: ‘class dos2unixbuf’ has no member named ‘base’ 21:39:06 elliott, there is pbase, is it the same thing 21:39:08 Vorpal: Try using the stdstream function on it. 21:39:11 Streambuf function I mean. 21:39:13 Vorpal: I DON'T KNOW C++ 21:39:15 Well, I do. 21:39:17 But not the library. 21:39:22 OK, so... lemme think 21:39:42 Vorpal: Just do 21:39:45 elliott, got a link to that ms page? 21:39:46 stremabuf::base() 21:39:47 I think. 21:39:56 streambuf 21:39:57 I mean 21:40:13 app/dos2unix.cpp:67:15: error: ‘base’ is not a member of ‘std::streambuf’ 21:40:14 It seems like pbase is for output and eback for input. 21:40:26 Visual Studio 6.0 21:40:26 Protected 21:40:26 char* base() const 21:40:26 END Protected 21:40:26 Return Value 21:40:27 Returns a pointer to the first byte of the reserve area. The reserve area consists of space between the pointers returned by base and ebuf. 21:40:31 --microsoft 21:40:33 Uh. 21:40:46 that description made little sense 21:40:48 Vorpal: What IS this dostounix thing for? 21:40:54 Do you need it? 21:40:58 Or is it just a helper tool? 21:41:03 elliott, I think it is for loading save games 21:41:09 Can't you just stub it out? :) 21:41:12 elliott, it is used all over the main source 21:41:23 Yes, but you could make it an identity mapping. 21:41:29 options/options.cpp:#include "app/dos2unix.h" 21:41:29 world/generator/worldgenerator.cpp:#include "app/dos2unix.h" 21:41:30 world/generator/langenerator.cpp:#include "app/dos2unix.h" 21:41:30 world/world.cpp:#include "app/dos2unix.h" 21:41:31 [...] 21:41:41 elliott, not sure, it has code to convert the other way 21:41:44 for loading I think 21:41:46 err 21:41:47 for saving 21:42:26 blergh 21:42:32 Wait. 21:42:45 good thing, pbackfail is never called 21:42:45 gptr = current input position 21:42:47 I can stub out it 21:42:47 beginning of input = eback 21:42:49 Try eback. 21:43:01 Or egptr... 21:43:02 No. 21:43:06 Vorpal: Try eback. I think. 21:43:10 Err. 21:43:13 Or egptr. 21:43:15 Bleh. 21:43:17 Vorpal: Just stub it out. 21:43:25 Vorpal: wait 21:43:29 elliott, as far as I can tell it is for checking if there is space to put in a char when doing the equiv of ungetc 21:43:29 Vorpal: Streambuf functions probably call it. 21:43:31 Vorpal: Streambuf functions probably call it. 21:43:33 elliott, ouch 21:43:40 Well 21:43:42 gptr = current 21:43:45 eback = beginning 21:43:46 egptr = end 21:43:52 I don't know which of the latter two you want. 21:43:57 Probably eback. Even though that makes not much sense. 21:44:08 Ah. 21:44:11 Vorpal: Try eback. 21:44:14 okay 21:44:20 ...maybe. 21:44:55 http://earslap.com/projectslab/otomata/?q=2h2d8882 this is fun 21:45:21 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../include/c++/4.5.2/bits/fstream.tcc: In member function ‘virtual int dos2unixbuf::sync()’: 21:45:21 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../include/c++/4.5.2/bits/fstream.tcc:837:5: error: ‘int std::basic_filebuf<_CharT, _Traits>::sync() [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits]’ is protected 21:45:23 elliott, now this 21:45:32 show line 21:45:35 always show the goddamn line 21:45:44 elliott, right. the .tcc one? 21:45:49 oh wait: 21:45:50 app/dos2unix.cpp:76:20: error: within this context 21:45:53 * Vorpal looks for it 21:46:00 int dos2unixbuf::sync() { 21:46:00 return inner.sync(); 21:46:00 } 21:46:03 the middle one 21:46:18 hmmmm 21:46:22 elliott, I think it fails because inheritance != embedding 21:46:23 what type is inner 21:46:26 but yeah 21:46:30 Vorpal: you can cast anything to public 21:46:32 :) 21:46:34 filebuf inner; 21:46:35 so you can achieve that 21:46:39 without changing the code 21:46:39 elliott, wait what? How? 21:46:45 http://byuu.org/articles/programming/public_cast 21:46:48 you're welcome 21:46:56 i suggest putting the code all in that function to cordon off the evil 21:47:29 elliott, my jaw. Refuses to go back up. 21:47:36 Vorpal: oh, and that's C++0x... because of the variadic template 21:47:40 I think you can specialise it for just this case 21:47:46 but I'd just tell it to compile that file as C++0x in the makefile 21:47:52 I'm not sure my template-fu is up to this 21:47:53 you're already at maximum evil level, after all 21:48:00 Vorpal: Just copy it, paste it, and do what it says at the bottom 21:48:06 Plus make it compile that file as c++0x :P 21:48:29 Alternatively find the public way to sync. But that's loser speak 21:48:31 elliott, and you don't want to mess with this makefile. It is spawn of fashan. 21:48:33 [exclamation mark] 21:48:40 Vorpal: foo.C: CFLAGS+=-std=c++0x 21:48:46 Just put it at the end :D 21:48:46 elliott, this one is .cpp 21:48:49 elliott, different project 21:48:51 Yeah yeah 21:49:05 hm 21:49:14 The public member function pubsync of the parent class streambuf calls this virtual member function, which overrides the virtual member streambuf::sync. 21:49:19 elliott, only good thing with this makefile is that it is non-recursive 21:49:24 Why is it protected... 21:49:38 elliott, so I could just use pubsync? 21:49:39 thanks 21:49:42 Vorpal: ... 21:49:45 Vorpal: No. 21:49:49 elliott, no? 21:49:54 Vorpal: Well... ok, maybe. 21:49:55 Try it. 21:50:02 compiles 21:50:10 If it breaks, don't come crying to me. 21:50:18 elliott, why would it break? 21:50:28 Because pubsync might not do the same thing that it's meant to do here. 21:50:33 Because you're implementing sync, that pubsync calls for you. 21:50:41 It might want to do extra stuff that conflicts with the extra stuff inner.pubsync already does. 21:50:41 interface/localinterface/irc_interface.cpp:1021:1: error: pasting "UplinkIRCMonitor" and "::" does not give a valid preprocessing token 21:50:42 But eh 21:50:43 heh 21:50:46 I know how to fix it 21:50:54 but what, 1021 lines in a IRC interface? 21:50:56 Vorpal: Enter here with your precompiled copy :D 21:51:02 Also, why is that surprising? 21:51:05 It's an IRC client[exclamation mark] 21:51:06 IRC_MAP_ENTRY(UplinkIRCMonitor, "001", Received_RPL_WELCOME ) 21:51:06 IRC_MAP_ENTRY(UplinkIRCMonitor, "002", Received_RPL_LUSER ) 21:51:07 oh my 21:51:08 It's an IRC client[exclamation mark] 21:51:15 Why is >onek lines surprising? 21:51:18 elliott, only part. It uses irclib in contrib 21:51:23 Ah. 21:51:26 Still 21:51:30 wait 21:51:34 It uses PYTHON Irclib? 21:51:37 [asterisk]irclib 21:51:42 IRC_MAP_ENTRY? 21:51:45 where the fuck is it 21:51:48 grep 21:51:50 elliott, nope 21:52:01 grep the whole source tree 21:52:05 of everything 21:52:08 it may be in irclib 21:52:09 elliott, no python 21:52:11 I mean 21:52:13 oh 21:52:13 meant* 21:52:15 what irclib then 21:52:18 elliott, C 21:52:24 wait, C++ 21:52:25 I mean 21:52:27 what link does it have 21:52:28 or whatever 21:52:29 URL 21:52:37 elliott, nada, nothing. 21:52:46 no introversion copyright? ;) 21:52:48 elliott, not even a license 21:52:57 it is in the external libs dir too 21:53:10 http://earslap.com/projectslab/otomata/?q=0q1y2a3h4j5c607586 ;; this sounds nice 21:57:51 interface/localinterface/irc_interface.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void IRCInterface::Update()’: 21:57:51 interface/localinterface/irc_interface.cpp:756:5: error: ‘ProcessMessages’ is not a member of ‘CCrossThreadsMessagingDevice’ 21:57:52 void IRCInterface::Update () 21:57:52 { 21:57:52 #ifndef WIN32 21:57:53 CCrossThreadsMessagingDevice::ProcessMessages (); 21:57:57 #endif 21:57:59 } 21:58:10 oh the irc lib too 21:58:31 ~/uplink/developer/source $ grep -R ProcessMessages ../ 21:58:31 ../source/interface/localinterface/irc_interface.cpp: CCrossThreadsMessagingDevice::ProcessMessages (); 21:58:34 elliott, GREAT! 21:58:37 unsolvable 21:58:38 hm? 21:58:40 wht 21:58:41 what is 21:58:59 elliott, the function is from the irclib (well CCrossThreadsMessagingDevice is) but it is nowhere to be found 21:59:01 only called 21:59:14 hmm 21:59:15 this think can not possibly have compiled 21:59:19 well people have compiled this before, dunno if they have on linux 21:59:21 try removing the call :P 21:59:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:00:47 // TODO : Kick 22:00:47 // : Query 22:00:49 elliott, heh ^ 22:00:52 lol 22:01:23 elliott, so it doesn't render kicks. And doesn't handle queries 22:01:46 uplink.cpp:82:35: error: ‘::main’ must return ‘int’ <-- I actually laughed out loud at this one 22:02:06 Vorpal, if this is not the Uplink source I will hate you forever. 22:02:16 Phantom_Hoover, ... did you read logs? 22:02:25 Phantom_Hoover, and yes it is the uplink source 22:02:32 ^_^ 22:02:43 news-ham: reddit 22:02:44 Hello, Reddit. This is my Portal Gun. http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/grjuf/hello_reddit_this_is_my_portal_gun/ 22:02:51 WHO GAVE THE NEWS HAM A PORTAL GUN 22:02:51 news-ham, Sweden 22:02:52 Horses die at Ayr Grand National: Two horses die during the running of the Scottish Grand National, a week after a similar tragedy at Aintree. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13106252 22:03:03 Vorpal: provide rss two w/o cdata 22:03:15 Phantom_Hoover: hello my one to eight keys are borken 22:03:24 elliott, apply simple one line regexp to strip out cdata tags and hope for the best? 22:03:37 elliott, what did you do to news-ham 22:03:39 Vettel beats Button to China pole: Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel sets a scintillating lap to beat McLaren's Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton in qualifying at the Chinese Grand Prix. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/sport1/hi/formula_one/13102798.stm 22:03:42 but that would destroy what little orthogonality my function has left. also, i dunno if picolisp even has regexs 22:03:44 regexes 22:03:48 Phantom_Hoover: what do you mean what did i do to news-ham 22:03:50 Pollution hits EU wildlife havens: Air pollution is damaging 60% of Europe's prime wildlife sites in meadows, forests and heaths, a team of scientists warns. http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/science-environment-13094597 22:03:53 it just has reddit support now. what are the haps my friends 22:03:54 Battlefield 3 - Full Length "Fault Line" Gameplay Trailer http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/grfsv/battlefield_3_full_length_fault_line_gameplay/ 22:04:01 Ah. 22:04:13 i was gonna add fox news 22:04:14 but\ 22:04:17 [asterisk]but 22:04:19 their feed sucks 22:04:32 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 22:05:53 gucci_sdl.cpp: In function ‘bool GciSetScreenSize(int, int, int, int)’: 22:05:53 gucci_sdl.cpp:301:56: error: default argument given for parameter 3 of ‘bool GciSetScreenSize(int, int, int, int)’ 22:05:53 gucci.h:26:6: error: after previous specification in ‘bool GciSetScreenSize(int, int, int, int)’ 22:05:54 h,m 22:05:55 hm* 22:06:00 bool GciSetScreenSize ( int width, int height, 22:06:00 int bpp = -1, int refresh = -1 ); 22:06:01 in header 22:06:07 bool GciSetScreenSize ( int width, int height, 22:06:08 int bpp = -1, int refresh = -1 ) 22:06:09 in the source 22:06:15 no, gcc, I don't see the issue 22:06:17 elliott, any clue? 22:06:24 hmm 22:06:29 Vorpal: remove from source 22:06:31 oh 22:06:33 the = -[one]s 22:06:36 C++ is very weird 22:07:16 that particular rule is weird 22:07:29 but unfortunately effectively necessary 22:07:35 make[1]: Nothing to be done for `libgucci.a'. 22:07:37 $ find .. -iname libgucci.a 22:07:38 $ 22:07:42 I'm sorry? 22:08:10 libgucci.a : $(OBJECTS) 22:08:14 fail 22:08:15 no body 22:08:27 now, how to write the shortest possible body for this one 22:08:28 coppro: Only necessary if you accept the rest of C++ 22:08:45 elliott: I accept all of it 22:08:46 "Why does the Bible say I have to hate gayness? That's weird" "That particular rule is weird but unfortunately effectively necessary" 22:08:49 arguably the header/source split is stupid 22:08:53 very stupid 22:08:57 coppro: See also: You are insane. 22:09:07 Vorpal: Um, make has .a support 22:09:12 "Why does the Bible say I have to hate gayness? That's weird" "That particular rule is weird but unfortunately effectively necessary" <-- not quite the same 22:09:15 elliott, well, they broke it 22:09:20 Shut up, it's basically like gayness. 22:09:43 GLUT_OBJECTS = gucci_glut.o resize_unix.o 22:09:43 SDL_OBJECTS = gucci_sdl.o 22:09:43 OBJECTS = gucci.o image.o $(SDL_OBJECTS) 22:09:43 libgucci.a : $(OBJECTS) 22:09:44 why 22:09:48 doesn't it work 22:10:20 elliott, ! 22:10:35 Given it a body yet? 22:10:39 elliott, nope 22:10:42 Well, try that. 22:10:49 elliott, but Vorpal: Um, make has .a support ? 22:11:12 Well, I thought it did. 22:11:14 Maybe not like that. 22:11:16 hm 22:11:21 There's that foo.a(bar.o) stuff. 22:11:32 I forgot how ar works 22:13:02 ah 22:13:04 ar r 22:14:46 $ make 22:14:47 Linking... libtool: you must specify a MODE 22:14:47 libtool: Try `libtool --help' for more information. 22:14:47 make: *** [uplink.static] Error 1 22:14:47 fun 22:15:00 long live hiding the output 22:15:02 (not) 22:16:57 libtool: link: unable to infer tagged configuration 22:16:57 libtool: link: specify a tag with `--tag' 22:16:58 wut 22:17:03 elliott, ANY GOOD WITH LIBTOOL? 22:17:17 Aren't you meant to use libtool instead of ar? 22:17:20 Or something? 22:17:23 Fuck libtool, bro. 22:17:43 elliott, this is used for linking the full uplink.static executable 22:18:02 Remove all lines referencing libtool :D 22:18:10 $(LIBTOOL) --quiet --mode=link $(LINK) $+ $(UPLINKSTATICLIBS) -o uplink.static 22:18:14 elliott, you mean that 22:18:20 YES CLEARLY 22:18:24 You could just use gcc :P 22:19:00 gcc: cc: No such file or directory 22:19:01 huh 22:19:03 oh right... 22:20:11 what on earth 22:20:15 gcc: /usr/lib/libttf.a: No such file or directory 22:20:19 what is that supposed to be 22:21:11 freetype 22:21:15 probably one point oh 22:23:17 fuck, irclib wasn't compiled, and now it doesn't want to compile 22:23:33 irc.cpp:184:62: error: invalid conversion from ‘DWORD (*)(void*)’ to ‘void*’ 22:23:33 irc.cpp:184:62: error: initializing argument 3 of ‘void* CreateThread(void*, int, void*, void*, int, void*)’ 22:23:34 m_hThread = CreateThread(NULL, 0, ThreadProc, this, 0, NULL); 22:24:00 :D 22:24:05 maybe the IRC thing just plain doesn't work on linux 22:24:07 m_hThread = CreateThread(NULL, 0, (void*)ThreadProc, this, 0, NULL); 22:24:08 that 22:24:11 link with wine 22:24:12 i dare you 22:24:14 winelib, that is 22:24:25 builds 22:24:30 what 22:24:31 how 22:24:33 you mean with winelib? 22:24:33 elliott, the irc lib does exist in the linux executable 22:24:37 you mean with winelib? 22:24:39 elliott, nope 22:24:43 how does it build then 22:24:43 m_hThread = CreateThread(NULL, 0, (void*)ThreadProc, this, 0, NULL); 22:24:45 COMPILES 22:24:46 ... 22:24:50 CREATETHREAD IS A WINDOWS FUNCTION 22:24:51 adding the explicit cast there 22:24:52 helps 22:24:59 Vorpal: see above 22:25:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:25:11 elliott, nope. 22:25:11 linux/windows.cpp:HANDLE CreateThread(void *, int, void * threadProc, void *arg, int, void * ) 22:25:12 linux/windows.h:HANDLE CreateThread(void *, int, void * /* THREADPROC */, void * /* ARG */, int, void * ); 22:25:15 :D 22:25:16 huh 22:25:17 :D 22:25:51 elliott, the header has these: http://sprunge.us/ILJf 22:25:57 oerjan: cheney on the mta is not just implemented in scheme 22:25:59 and some typedef 22:26:07 typedef pthread_mutex_t CRITICAL_SECTION; 22:26:08 yay 22:26:15 typedef void *HWND; 22:26:15 typedef void *HANDLE; 22:26:17 perhaps not but on wikipedia it redirects to chicken scheme... 22:26:19 oerjan: er, in chicken 22:26:22 oerjan: yeah no 22:26:34 oerjan: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html 22:26:37 socket.h:6:0: warning: ignoring #pragma comment 22:26:46 (although i remembered chicken scheme first) 22:26:47 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/cboyer13.c is the hand-translated proof of concept 22:26:49 #pragma comment(lib, "wsock32.lib") 22:26:51 what on earth is that 22:26:55 elliott, ^ 22:27:14 Vorpal: dunno, maybe it causes linking with their windows build system? 22:27:16 if it's a comment 22:27:18 might be a custom thing 22:27:29 hm 22:27:42 irc.cpp:449:4: error: name lookup of ‘p’ changed for ISO ‘for’ scoping 22:27:42 irc.cpp:449:4: note: (if you use ‘-fpermissive’ G++ will accept your code) 22:27:47 *p = '\0'; 22:27:49 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:27:52 -fpermissive 22:27:56 yeah guess so 22:27:58 presumably it's like 22:28:03 for (char [asterisk]p = ...); 22:28:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:28:06 [asterisk]p = '\0'; 22:28:07 elliott, it is in a while loop 22:28:09 pikhq 22:28:10 you lied 22:28:16 elliott, while( (bool)m_socket ) 22:28:16 about the heisig stories 22:28:23 pikhq: also i made several comments on redo in logs. 22:28:24 oh wait 22:28:25 for(char* p = szBuf; *p && *p != '\r' && *p != '\n'; ++p) 22:28:25 ; 22:28:25 *p = '\0'; 22:28:27 doh 22:28:38 elliott: Quod? 22:28:52 pikhq: there's a lot, grep for "redo" on http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-04-16 22:28:56 pikhq: until you find my first message 22:29:00 then just go from there, it's a wall of text :) 22:29:07 Ah. 22:29:16 pikhq: well i can quote if you want 22:29:23 but it'd drown out Vorpal's valuable uplink compilation talk 22:29:26 :D 22:29:28 socket.cpp:112:53: error: invalid conversion from ‘int*’ to ‘socklen_t*’ 22:29:28 socket.cpp:112:53: error: initializing argument 3 of ‘int accept(int, sockaddr*, socklen_t*)’ 22:29:29 Vorpal: MSVC++ has #pragma comment which adds a "comment record" in the object file/executable; with 'lib' it just makes the linker automatically look for that library without having to specify it. 22:29:30 g a h 22:29:39 fizzie, ouch 22:29:45 Vorpal: reinterpret_cast 22:29:52 reinterpret_cast(x) 22:29:55 elliott, actually I'll fix it properly 22:30:01 okay 22:30:32 pikhq: it continues past where you expect btw 22:30:38 finishes at 0: 22:30:39 (You can also use it to specify some other linker options.) 22:30:40 erm 22:30:41 twenty:fourty-two 22:30:43 * pikhq looks into tup 22:30:45 [asterisk]forty 22:30:51 pikhq: there's more[exclamation mark] :D 22:30:54 (my number keys are broken) 22:30:58 tup is awesome, though 22:31:08 he has his own linux-from-scratch/gentoo-alike called gittup 22:31:12 http://gittup.org/gittup/ 22:31:15 elliott: Still, you must admit: redo is a hell of a lot better than make. Thus my glee. 22:31:17 the sources of all the software are stored in git 22:31:20 and everything is built with tup 22:31:24 elliott, a one line fix anyway 22:31:37 oh, and everything is configured with menuconfig 22:32:11 For some reason, one of the parameters for the time signature event in MIDI is 32nds per quarter note. 22:32:14 "Yeah, I'm marf. Yeah, my computer is captainfalcon. Yeah, I just edited the spellcasting in nethack because I felt like it. Then I changed ls to print "Sup bro, way to list those files", because I like to be encouraged when I list things, and because I like it when people call me "bro"1. Then I re-compiled both and got a new initrd in like two seconds. Go ahead -- try to change the ls on your system t 22:32:14 o print out extra messages for no reason!2 You can't do it!! Unless of course you're running gittup.org. But if you're running gittup.org, why aren't you playing nethack or needlessly recompiling things just for fun? In fact, how are you reading this webpage?? It doesn't even come with a web browser." 22:32:30 And my glee comes from most make replacements screwing up even the bits that make gets right. 22:33:04 "Some things that will never be in gittup.org: 22:33:04 make 22:33:04 makedepend 22:33:04 automake 22:33:04 autoconf 22:33:05 libtool 22:33:07 ant 22:33:08 scons 22:33:10 CrossThreadsMessagingDevice.cpp fails badly however 22:33:10 glibc" 22:33:13 A man after my own heart. 22:33:19 pikhq: tup even gives you a build progress bar[exclamation mark] WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT 22:33:26 The only other system that does that is CMake, and CMake is the worst ever. 22:33:38 pikhq: (Also, http://gittup.org/tup/tup_vs_mordor.html is amusing + funny) 22:33:47 Why compare against make when you can compare against the All-Seeing Eye of Mordor? 22:34:30 CMake has the following benefits: it sucks *slightly* less than autoconf/make. 22:34:47 pikhq: ALSO: Disadvantage of redo: It's practically impossible to offer an -n. 22:34:48 Which hardly counts. 22:34:50 elliott, how does winelib work? 22:34:57 Vorpal: It works exactly how wine works. 22:35:00 By providing Windows API implementations. 22:35:01 elliott: Okay, true, there is that. 22:35:07 pikhq: (I've even discussed this with the developer.) 22:35:11 elliott, but to an ELF instead of a PE? 22:35:24 pikhq: Also the developer dislikes IPvSix and wants us all to switch to using heavily-recursively-NATted IPvFour. 22:35:33 OTHER THINGS THE DEVELOPER IS: A baby-murderer. 22:35:41 This is a valid method of hoosing software. 22:35:44 choosing. 22:35:57 Vorpal: winelib provides the Windows API as a library, instead of providing the entire Windows API *and* ABI. 22:36:21 pikhq, okay. Actually I think I'll edit out the irc client from uplink instead. Looks saner. 22:36:30 NO 22:36:31 THE IRC CLIENT 22:36:32 IS AWESOME 22:36:40 LINK TO WINELIB 22:36:43 OR DIE 22:36:48 elliott, die then 22:36:51 What 22:36:52 It's just one -l 22:36:54 And an -I 22:36:56 How hard could that be 22:37:25 Vorpal: ? 22:37:49 Vorpal: In fact 22:37:56 Vorpal: Wine has a tool to convert Windows Makefiels into Wine ones. 22:37:58 I think. 22:38:05 See winemaker. 22:38:09 And 22:38:10 To fix that problem, open notepad2/Makefile.in in a text editor and search for an assignment to a variable with IMPORTS as part of its name. There will be a list of import libraries. Now run winemaker again, but with these libraries prefixed by -i: 22:38:10 $ winemaker --lower-uppercase -icomdlg32 -ishell32 -ishlwapi -iuser32 -igdi32 -iadvapi32 -ikernel32 . 22:38:14 Easy[exclamation mark] 22:38:25 And it lets you specify --dll. 22:38:26 Vorpal: DO IT 22:38:28 elliott: So far, I at least approve of Tup's syntax. 22:38:45 pikhq: It's not about the syntax, man, it's the arrows[exclamation mark] They go upwards[exclamation mark] 22:38:47 This is promising: hardly any make-alikes have non-painful syntax. 22:39:11 Have you considered making some new entries in Xcompose? 22:39:16 MAYBE :D 22:39:21 elliott, the issue is that it wants a lot of stuff that windows.cpp is missing 22:39:28 pikhq: Once you've read the site, you probably want to check out http://gittup.org/tup/build_system_rules_and_algorithms.pdf. 22:39:32 something about a huge window struct 22:39:37 for threading 22:39:40 pikhq: It's an interesting read describing why tup is so fast. 22:39:43 and one for displaying windows 22:39:50 pikhq: (And why make and all top-down build systems are inherently slower.) 22:40:24 Vorpal: Yes. 22:40:35 Vorpal: So compile the whole IRC client as a Windows program, with winelib. 22:41:11 See http://www.winehq.org/docs/winelib-guide/winelib-getting-started or "man winemaker". 22:41:12 Easy. 22:42:32 elliott, PROBLEM is that it runs inside the same process as uplink 22:42:39 that is going to play nuts with uplink 22:43:15 Vorpal: not really 22:43:19 well, probably not 22:43:21 maybe not[exclamation mark] 22:43:24 WHY NOT FIND OUT 22:43:58 elliott, this is easier, and I don't care much for the irc interface. 22:45:28 Vorpal: you are a terrible person 22:46:21 URGH. That was some messed up screen 22:46:36 it ran. But aborted. 22:47:27 it didn't find data 22:47:27 hm 22:49:28 elliott: So, it's preloading to figure out non-explicit dependencies? 22:49:30 I approve. 22:49:37 the crap. What 22:49:47 pikhq: Yes. (I would prefer it strace'd for statically-linked stuff, but what can you do.) 22:49:57 pikhq: But really, that isn't the important thing. The important thing is that the arrows go up. 22:50:00 It's a bottom-up build system. 22:50:15 It traces from what's changed to what needs rebuilding, not from "here's what I'm tasked to build, now to trace all the dependencies". 22:50:32 Which makes it much faster (see the paper, much better time complexity, also see the comparisons to Make and Mordor on the site) 22:50:34 elliott: I'm looking at the details that everything fucks up horribly currently. 22:50:43 Yar :P 22:50:52 elliott: I'll admire the algorithm it uses on the dependency graph in a bit. :P 22:51:03 *oh* this one is older 22:51:08 than the one I had as a native 22:51:09 Why why why does the only other person active in #picolisp right now have to be Arm? 22:51:13 err, as their one 22:51:18 Vorpal: what do you mean by older? 22:51:23 Oh jesus *it can actually output the dependency graph*? 22:51:25 I approve. 22:51:28 Sgeo: haha, sprunge a conversation snippet, i wanna lol 22:51:35 elliott, v1.31 vs. v1.54 22:51:38 Vorpal: ah 22:51:40 elliott, incompatible options file format 22:51:56 I really want to tell Arm he doesn't know shit in octothorpepicolisp, but I think he is a committer :) 22:51:59 elliott, and data seems a bit screwy too 22:52:16 new game: 22:52:21 pick any random wikipedia article 22:52:27 elliott, all that happened just now is that he had a workaround for a problem, but I remembered a builtin that worked just fine 22:52:32 click the first link to occur in the body of the page 22:52:32 repeat 22:52:33 He doesn't seem to have noticed, though 22:52:36 you will visit Aristotle 22:52:46 elliott, huh there is an option for multi-monitor over network 22:52:49 I'm not sure what... 22:52:53 coppro: O RLY? 22:53:00 coppro: reddit says it was "philosophy". 22:53:05 "# It will detect if your build description isn't parallel-safe, and tell you." 22:53:08 :D 22:53:12 So basically you can get anywhere really popular if you keep clicking. 22:53:14 Which is OBVIOUS. 22:54:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:54:04 elliott: philosophy is part of the loop with aristotle 22:54:11 I just like aristotle more 22:54:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:55:02 * pikhq starts on the paper 22:55:12 pikhq: DID YOU READ THE COMPARISON TO MORDOR 22:55:14 It is hilarious. 22:55:21 LINK TO PAPER 22:55:33 ("This one time a beam of light was flying through the vacuum of space at the speed of light and then tup went by and was like "Yo beam of light, you need a lift?" cuz tup was going so fast it thought the beam of light had a flat tire and was stuck. True story." --make vs tup) 22:55:43 Phantom_Hoover: It's about build systems. 22:55:47 SOMEHOW I DOUBT YOU ARE INTERESTED 22:55:51 MORDOR 22:55:52 REFERENCES 22:55:53 ARE 22:55:55 ALWAYS 22:55:56 ONLY ON ONE PAGE 22:55:57 INTERESTING 22:56:03 http://gittup.org/tup/index.html IS THE SITE 22:56:22 "For the tup case there is a Tupfile in each directory, as is the tup-convention. Tupvention." 22:56:32 pikhq: I sure hope you did read the comparisons if only because they're hilarious :P 22:56:48 "I didn't run a million cuz it would take forever to create a million files, and I value the life of my hard drive. Maybe I'll do that someday. Yeah that's right. I said maybe someday I will *kill* my hard drive, just for another data point. Is it right to value the pursuit of science over life? Even if it's something that does not ever truly live? That is a question that even tup cannot answer." 22:57:07 elliott, data files I have won't work with this version of uplink. It's all fucked up 22:57:07 :( 22:57:14 Vorpal: :( 22:57:16 Vorpal: Ask on the forums? 22:57:22 elliott, har har 22:57:22 Vorpal: There will be modders there. 22:57:24 What? 22:57:27 What's funny? 22:57:38 THAT GODDAMN LIBGTK 22:57:42 elliott, development cd access forum is closed to registered owners of it 22:57:49 Oh :P 22:57:52 elliott, to allow posting source code 22:57:58 Vorpal: Good reason to buy it[exclamation mark] :D 22:58:07 elliott, maaaybe 22:58:18 [[Q: HELP!!!!! How do you use the voice analyser???? I am talking into my mike but nothing happens....wtf???? 22:58:18 A: The "speak into your mike" message is just to attempt to emulate reality, all you need to do is: 22:58:18 1. Go to the company's public access server, save the phone number of the admin. 22:58:18 2. Phone the admin . 22:58:18 3. He will then speak, the voice analyser will say "recording voice pattern" and then it'll say "Analysing voice recording". After this point you can hang up, BUT LEAVE THE VOICE ANALYSER RUNNING!!! 22:58:20 4. Go to the voice check on the computer you're trying to hack, press the "playback" button 22:58:22 SIMPLE!!! ]] 22:58:24 --Uplink FAQ 22:58:38 elliott, what Uplink is this. 22:58:42 Phantom_Hoover: Uplink Uplink. 22:58:45 THIS IS ONLINK IS IT NOT 22:58:45 it's expensive 22:58:48 NO IT IS NOT 22:58:53 ERM 22:58:57 Vorpal: Yeah, but you save the cost of the game :P 22:59:07 WHY DID NOÖNE INFORM ME OF THIS 22:59:21 Also Introversion are cool enough to justify supporting them even though their business model is outdated. 22:59:27 I WANT TO PLAY SUBVERSION DAMMIT 22:59:43 SUBVERSION 22:59:46 SO AWESOME 22:59:54 I WILL GET SUNGLASSES JUST TO PLAY IT 22:59:56 Vorpal: Also the dev disk might be more up to date? 22:59:59 elliott: I did read the comparisons. 23:00:02 Dunno. Like it says "Note: Requires the full version of Uplink to be installed" :P 23:00:08 pikhq: GOOD 23:00:16 elliott, I can't install Uplink... 23:00:17 elliott, maybe 23:00:24 That was at Vorpal. 23:00:31 Phantom_Hoover, why not? 23:00:42 Dunno. Like it says "Note: Requires the full version of Uplink to be installed" :P <-- I have that 23:00:51 elliott, But TOO NEW VERSION 23:00:57 Right. Thus the disk might be newer. 23:01:00 Vorpal, it requires an outdated version of libgtk. 23:01:03 If not, someone will know how to fix it, presumably. 23:01:08 Phantom_Hoover: He's using the developer disk. 23:01:11 disc 23:01:12 A version so outdated it's not available through normal channels. 23:01:13 i.e. he's trying to compile it. 23:01:15 elliott, ah, right. 23:01:16 The game itself runs fine for him. 23:01:19 Phantom_Hoover, no it doesn't. Only the installer does 23:01:28 And define the normal channel. 23:01:29 channels 23:01:31 Vorpal, that doesn't help. 23:01:42 elliott, APT, or indeed any official source. 23:01:47 Phantom_Hoover, anyway. I don't need it for the developer one 23:02:17 Phantom_Hoover: So you didn't even try looking at the source archives? 23:02:18 lol 23:02:20 Phantom_Hoover, the issue is I have version 1.54 + it's data files. Developer disc is 1.31. The results of 1.31 on 1.54 data files are... curious 23:02:21 FOR EXAMPLE 23:02:22 Vorpal: How did you install it without the installer btw? 23:02:26 the tutorial mission 23:02:29 is replaced 23:02:30 with another 23:02:33 one from ARC 23:02:40 which is complete messed up 23:02:41 :D 23:02:42 elliott, source archives from *what*? 23:02:49 Vorpal: Last question? 23:02:51 Phantom_Hoover: ... 23:02:53 Phantom_Hoover: The GTK site? 23:02:57 Vorpal: How did you install it without the installer btw? <-- trivial, one symlink 23:03:01 Sometimes your wilful ignorance astounds me, Phantom_Hoover. 23:03:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:03:08 elliott, 'wilful'. 23:03:18 Well, it DOES sound like you gave up before, say, googling "GTK". 23:03:19 elliott, actually one symlink + copy one *.so from /usr/lib32 on my laptop 23:03:24 To then complain about it is... interesting. 23:03:32 elliott, that was all I needed to make it run 23:03:37 elliott, I didn't, because *that's an absurdly vague search for the problem I had*. 23:03:46 Phantom_Hoover: You needed an older version of GTK. 23:03:52 You were trying to find it on "official sources". 23:04:00 You seem to have given up before looking outside of the whatever repositories. 23:04:01 elliott, If you want to run the installer, you would need gtk1 23:04:08 elliott, and at the time, I didn't know these things, since it was quite some time ago. 23:04:13 That is not wilful ignorance. 23:04:28 elliott, oh and tell the self-extracting .sh --help, and it will tell you how to direct it to unpack in a good place 23:04:32 so you can get at the files directly 23:04:38 instead of the installer failing to launch 23:04:50 Phantom_Hoover: Define these things... you didn't know of google? 23:04:55 shrug 23:05:24 elliott, looking at some persons knowing there is a step by step guide and knowing there is google, they still fail to apply either 23:05:24 elliott, FFS, *I did not understand the shared library issue enough to consider searching source archives.* 23:05:28 elliott, like my dad did today 23:05:38 *Googling 'GTK' would still have been utterly useless.* 23:05:47 elliott, my dad, is the nightmare of a helpdesk worker 23:06:08 Phantom_Hoover: OK fine but bringing it up later seems odd. 23:06:25 Vorpal: My mother justifies it with "I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT IF IT'S WORDS" 23:06:28 "I'M A VISUAL LEARNER" 23:06:46 elliott, ah, my dad can't do that. He is a scientist after all. It wouldn't work. 23:06:49 If you ever see on the news the story of a psychopath child who killed his mother after being asked for technical support, try and sympathise momentarily. 23:07:02 no I haven't seen that story 23:07:06 WELL ONE DAY YOU MIGHT 23:08:12 So far, I approve of tup. 23:08:53 elliott, you said you had uplink. What version? 23:09:00 please please let it be 1.31! 23:09:20 Vorpal: I... dunno. 23:09:22 Vorpal: It might be. 23:09:24 elliott, brb, while you search for the cd! 23:09:27 Vorpal: But no optical drive. 23:09:29 Well. 23:09:37 I dunno if the SuperDrive works with Ubuntu. 23:09:58 * pikhq shall have to play with it a bit and see what, if anything, is annoying to do with it 23:10:29 pikhq: Tup's own build system is a pretty good demonstration, btw. 23:12:06 * pikhq wonders how well it handles, say, autogenerated headers for a C file... 23:12:40 : foo.in |> my-magic-generator |> foo.h 23:12:49 : uses-foo-h.c |> ... |> uses-foo-h 23:12:51 Should work fine... 23:13:26 Except that I'd like to not have to duplicate *all* the command stuff just to say "the following C files use a generated header". 23:13:28 pikhq: BTW, if you do 23:13:31 : $(mingwsrcs) tup-dllinject.dll |> ^ MINGW32LINK tup.exe^ version=`git describe`; echo "const char *tup_version(void) {return \"$version\";}" | @(TUP_MINGW)-gcc -x c -c - -o tup-version.omingw; @(TUP_MINGW)-gcc %f tup-version.omingw $(MINGWLDFLAGS) -o tup.exe |> tup.exe tup-version.omingw 23:13:39 Then it shows MINGWLINK tup.exe in normal, and the rest of the line dimmed. 23:13:44 Which is great. 23:13:47 : foreach *.c |> build-junk |> %.o 23:13:54 pikhq: You don't? 23:14:02 pikhq: It figures out the header dependency automatically. 23:14:06 : foo.c foo.h |>|> 23:14:15 pikhq: It figures out the header dependency automatically. 23:14:16 No? 23:14:19 elliott: Uh, before a build has happened it has no idea. 23:14:19 Isn't that the point of the preload? 23:14:28 Oh, that's true. 23:14:39 And if the header hasn't been generated yet it'll bork. 23:17:20 Oh, well, the macro feature seems to make up for that. 23:17:39 : foo.c foo.h |>|> 23:17:41 I think that might even work. 23:17:42 Maybe. 23:17:44 Uhh, dunno. 23:18:01 Actually, it'd be : foo.c | foo.h |>|> is anything 23:18:04 s/is/if/ 23:18:27 Right. 23:18:35 Vorpal: But no optical drive. 23:18:35 Well. 23:18:35 I dunno if the SuperDrive works with Ubuntu. 23:18:37 what about 23:18:42 your other computers? 23:18:46 elliott, so did you find the cd? 23:18:51 Vorpal is really obsessed with my other computers. 23:18:59 elliott, remember you have to repay me for 1234567890 ! 23:19:01 No, I don't look for things I doubt I'd be able to read on your command. 23:19:10 ;) 23:19:12 The only other computer I have easy access to is my other laptop. 23:19:14 Which lacks an optical drive. 23:19:17 oh 23:19:26 I am not going to get my iMac, plug it in, find a keyboard, [...], just for Uplink. 23:19:34 If the SuperDrive works, I'll look for Uplink today or tomorrow. 23:19:41 I think I know where it is, maybe. 23:25:08 Okay, I am positively amazed at how simple it is to write a build system. 23:25:21 tup is pretty small :) 23:25:31 It works on Windows, I'd wager the portability stuff is a good chunk of the code. 23:26:11 Well, OK, tup is pretty long (thirteen-k lines). 23:26:21 But then, it's doing graph manipulation and serialisation... in C. 23:26:33 And it's insanely fast, and full-featured. 23:26:45 pikhq: BTW, tup has an inotify-based file monitor. 23:26:52 Starts the inotify-based file monitor. The monitor must scan the 23:26:52 filesystem once and initialize watches on each directory. Then 23:26:52 when you make changes to the files, the monitor will see them 23:26:52 and write them directly into the database. With the monitor 23:26:52 running, 'tup upd' does not need to do the initial scan, and can 23:26:53 start constructing the build graph immediately. The "Scanning 23:26:55 filesystem..." time from 'tup upd' is approximately equal to the 23:26:57 time you would save by running the monitor. When the monitor is 23:26:59 running, a 'tup upd' with no file changes should only take a few 23:27:03 milliseconds (on my machines I get about 2 or 3ms when 23:27:05 everything is in the disk cache). If you restart your computer, 23:27:07 you will need to restart the monitor. 23:27:08 Gregor: I bet you could easily hook that up to your desired file-changes-auto-rebuild system 23:27:19 It'd just have to "tup upd" after writing the database. 23:27:41 I approve of tup. 23:27:58 Hmm... I'm surprised the monitor can't already do that... 23:28:22 * I humbly present the Love-Trowbridge (Lovebridge?) recursive directory 23:28:22 * scanning algorithm: 23:28:24 LOVEBRIDGE 23:28:44 elliott, I was able to pirate 1.31 23:28:57 Yar har fiddledy-dee. 23:29:55 pikhq: I found it! 23:30:27 ./11.03.09:18:44:07 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/data/Heisig_complete_v3.rtf Annoyingly, it's RTF. 23:30:31 yep 23:30:32 told you 23:30:33 all lies 23:30:36 ALL 23:30:36 LIES 23:34:30 Okay, making the monitor auto-build is hard enough that I'm just going to ask the mailing list to do it :) 23:40:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:16 -!- cheater- has joined. 23:46:55 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:57:42 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:59:40 -!- augur has joined.