00:00:12 * Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible 00:00:33 Sgeo: What things are that? 00:00:37 zzo38: why do you want to know? 00:00:48 zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive 00:01:25 Sgeo: Try figuring it out... 00:01:56 quintopia: Why do I want to know what? 00:02:19 zzo38: the best sizes for pieces on a chess board? 00:02:43 quintopia: To make the TeX chess program and METAFONT chessboard. 00:03:09 so by point sizes you mean, as in font points? 00:03:15 quintopia: Yes. 00:04:08 my answer: there is no best. it all depends. 00:04:22 OK, I guess that does make sense. 00:04:28 However I ought to put in some default. 00:15:15 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:22:14 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:22:18 Hmm 00:28:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:38:29 Bleck. DST starts up again soon. 00:38:41 I DESPISE YE AND YOUR POINTLESS TIME FUCKING 00:38:49 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 00:41:59 pikhq, you there/ 00:42:24 Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order? 00:53:42 National pastime being screwing around with DST rules (it is in some countries) would be even worse. 00:54:08 I do not like DST either 00:55:29 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:56:25 Heh. I set this script to print high pings in red (normal ones in red). The threshold is 1ms. 00:57:13 (yes, it classifies 1.2ms ping as high) 01:08:03 lol @ risking watching in the wrong order when it comes to haruhi 01:08:13 it's funny you should mention that... ;) 01:12:41 -!- pumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:15:39 MUST 01:15:40 GET 01:15:41 libc.so 01:15:47 MUST!!! 01:21:33 Obsession, thy name is libc.so! 01:23:04 * variable secretly bids against Gregor and forces him to pay me for the domain name 01:23:12 oops - did I say that in channel? 01:23:16 variable: Closed auction. 01:23:43 The fact that it's a closed auction is the only reason I have a chance :P 01:36:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:04:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:34:02 Sgeo: So far, there is only one susùmiya haruhi movie. 02:35:15 pikhq, ty 02:54:27 So, the spoiler I saw some time ago is apparently a very severe one 02:58:07 What, Haruhi being omnipotent? 02:58:17 That's not really a spoiler, that's more the premise. 02:59:38 pikhq, I meant for the movie specifically 02:59:46 Not ... the premise of the series 02:59:58 :P 03:00:08 (Although I've seen speculation about Kyon actually being the omnipotent one) 03:08:54 -!- augur has joined. 03:13:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:19:32 Someone needs to put a warning for photosensitive epileptics on this movie 03:24:23 You'd think Japan would know that. 03:24:33 heh 03:24:36 Considering the infamous episode of Pokémon only aired there... 03:24:44 And put hundreds in the hospital. 03:31:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:36:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:36:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:37:35 Lots of flickering? 03:40:34 Ilari: yes 03:40:39 to say the least 03:43:16 -!- azaq231 has joined. 03:43:52 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:52:55 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:00:39 pikhq_, should I seek out the Suzumiya Haruhi mangas? 04:05:51 Sgeo: No. 04:05:57 Sgeo: You may, however, wish to seek out the novels. 04:06:03 As those are actually the original media. 04:06:04 ....huh? 04:06:09 Oh 04:06:47 Up to 10 volumes. 04:07:08 The anime, BTW, covered roughly the first volume. 04:07:30 I saw the occasional spoiler on TV Tropes 04:08:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:08:52 -!- azaq231 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:09:17 Sweet. The Jefferson Bible is getting digitised. 04:09:39 I don't see how that's particularly sweet 04:09:49 Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible. 04:09:54 I know what it is 04:09:58 Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible. 04:10:01 ... 04:10:08 it's the subset that jefferson considered uh, good. 04:10:14 not particularly exciting 04:10:45 Among other things, it is devoid of supernatural claims. 04:10:48 yes. 04:11:01 anyone can see which claims in the bible are supernatural, so it's pretty trivial to filter those out? 04:11:29 of course, here's the point about "anyone can do that" "yeah so, it's trivial in retrospect" etc ... 04:11:58 and yeah sure, it has some historical relevance in that we can learn something about 19th century progressive-religious thought 04:12:18 I'm sorry that I like the digitisation of important historical documents. :P 04:12:32 but when it comes to religious scholarship i kind of prefer the historical-critical methods in actual use by irreligious scholars 04:12:55 I think there's more important historical documents to attend to 04:13:38 and I don't see why that's particularly interesting. (a friend of mine's been collecting copies of nahuatl codices from just after the spanish conquista, I think those'd be more valuable, for one) 04:15:33 how much impact did the Jefferson bible have in America, btw? 04:15:42 here, it's basically just a footnote 04:15:56 did it inspire lots of people to become somewhat more moderate christians in america? 04:16:08 or did those that became moderate become so because of other reasons? 04:17:14 I'm not opposing the digitization, but uh ... I guess I'm a bit difficult to excite 04:17:29 Absolutely no impact, because Jefferson did not publish for fear of getting lynched. 04:17:46 However, Jefferson *himself* had an absurd amount of impact in the US. 04:17:56 certainly 04:18:09 but I think he, like pretty much everyone has even more impact as a kind of 04:18:22 uh, canvas onto which people project their own idealization 04:19:00 I also think it's somewhat important to have a digitisation just so that I can shove it at people who claim that "This is a Christian nation; after all, the founding fathers were Christian." 04:19:16 Jefferson took God out of the Bible, your argument is invalid! 04:20:24 pikhq_: that's a good point 04:20:50 but those people won't read the first paragraph of the jefferson bible even if you stick things in their eyes to keep the eyelids open 04:21:18 In which case I'd much prefer a normal Bible. 04:21:28 Significantly heavier object for beating clue into people. 04:21:46 I recommend you get a seriously commented edition 04:21:47 -!- augur has joined. 04:22:01 those can get rather heavyweight 04:22:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:22:57 you could probably use them for sailing ballast, even 04:24:40 Well aware. 04:24:53 * pikhq_ is a preacher's child. Those suckers are fucking *heavy*. 04:25:17 I like the kind of language game that eisegesis and exegesis really is 04:25:27 I would like a game that basically just is a big book 04:25:33 and deriving things out of that book 04:25:50 Interesting concept. 04:25:53 which may be why I feel so attracted to the talmud 04:26:01 I know some games like nomic kind of get close 04:26:06 Only problem is that it may evolve into a world religion. 04:26:11 probably not, though 04:26:29 if you make the content incomprehensible enough 04:26:41 I'm not saying stupid enough, I'm saying genuinely meaningless 04:26:49 the bible does contain meaning, it's just mistaken meaning 04:26:58 this should be meaning that barely registers as such 04:27:14 And you'll get bible code shit coming out of it. 04:27:50 but yeah 04:27:52 i've sort of 04:28:08 taken to ~trolling christian fora just for the sake of playing the game of exegesis/eisegesis 04:28:13 XD 04:28:19 in general, I know the bible and christian history better than them anyway 04:28:20 so ... 04:28:34 That's not very hard. 04:28:58 what's worst is 04:29:04 I know the bible better than the other trolls too :| 04:29:21 mostly because of my interest for the talmud, though 04:29:27 that's such a fascinating thing 04:29:33 guys discussing things back and forth 04:29:37 seldom concluding anything 04:29:57 and going off on tangents that you can spend days trying to figure out why that tangent even came up 04:30:10 it's awesomely weird 04:30:59 in a way, I'm happy with the state of computational linguistics the day a computer actually can sort of understand what the talmud is on about 04:31:20 because then, we have conquered language games. 04:35:44 zen koans could maybe be another test case 04:52:20 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:04:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:06:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:06:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:14:52 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:22:34 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Contrary to public belief[2], portals do not conserve momentum.. 05:33:16 ... Wut? There is a JVM written in .Net. 05:33:32 I put a VM in your VM so you can VM while you VM. 05:38:44 Do you mean IKVM? 05:40:21 Yeah. 05:41:45 It has an ahead-of-time compiler too if you don't wan't to VM while you VM. (Though "double JIT" does remind a bit of Battle Programmer Shirase.) 05:41:51 s/wan't/want/ 05:46:43 I'm a bit surprised that it works *well* though. 05:53:41 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:58:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:14:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:35:29 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:58:23 pikhq_: there's python written in python. 07:06:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:08:32 cheater-: Yo dawg. 07:08:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukCulDOJzg 07:28:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:31:11 -!- augur has joined. 07:34:26 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:33:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:33:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:33:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:36:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:17:46 The glitziest thing ever: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/ 09:37:48 i just got a defretted guitar :) 09:37:58 -!- cheater00 has joined. 09:40:11 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:41:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:41:36 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:18:48 -!- cheater- has joined. 10:20:32 -!- cheater- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:21:08 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:21:31 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:02:04 "Don't fret, it's been defretted"? 11:04:41 bass? 11:22:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | we're compiling via a functional language. 11:41:10 -!- cheater00 has joined. 11:41:41 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:43:44 -!- FireyFly has joined. 12:09:34 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 12:12:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:17:26 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:17:26 -!- Deewiant has joined. 12:17:26 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:17:26 -!- clog has quit (ended). 12:17:31 -!- clog has joined. 12:17:31 -!- clog has joined. 12:18:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:21:07 so this japan thing...haven't read the news...is it an eqrthquake or a tsunami? 12:21:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:21:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:22:50 -!- cheater00 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:23:03 -!- cheater00 has joined. 12:24:38 -!- cheater00 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:24:51 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:37:15 Both. 12:37:31 The earthquake caused a tsunami 12:39:28 Reportedly the wave height at shore was ~10m in some places. Tsunami from earthquake top off at about 35m wave height (at shore). Some other mechanisms can generate huge tsunamis with 500m+(!!!) wave height. 12:40:22 Yes, over half a kilometer height. 12:42:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:51:34 Ilari, you meant Vajont, yes? 12:58:02 Not really. Even if it was a huge wall of water (~250m). 13:00:25 Oh, Lituya Bay. 13:00:35 I think it was that... 13:06:49 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:07:30 -!- elliott has joined. 13:08:37 -!- cheater99 has joined. 13:11:28 microsoft xna is so lame 13:12:26 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:12:27 -!- elliott_ has joined. 13:12:33 00:42:03 • Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible 13:12:35 00:42:24 Sgeo: What things are that? 13:12:37 00:42:38 zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive 13:12:39 Possible, but *only* with both bootloader and kernel support. 13:12:49 The kernel runs on the bare metal; it *must* know where to find its files, and thus know to mount the filesystem the iso is on and read it. 13:12:54 Only some versions of Linux can do this. 13:13:07 You can do this with GRUB 2 and some versions of Linux. 13:13:12 I think grml can do it. 13:13:43 01:23:51 pikhq, you there/ 13:13:43 01:24:15 Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order? 13:13:43 Yes, this is _definitely_ a hard-to-Google question. 13:13:44 Definitely. 13:15:03 Incredibly. 13:15:27 It's like the guy in my school who allegedly posed as a girl in order to coerce naked pictures out of lesbians. 13:15:43 Because there's a shortage of pictures of naked lesbians. 13:16:18 Phantom_Hoover: The only thing there are more naked pictures of than lesbians are people pretending to be lesbians. 13:17:10 elliott_, even if he is some kind of lesbian photo connoisseur it's still way more effort than it's worth. 13:17:20 Phantom_Hoover: I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU 13:17:24 BY WAY OF BAD JOKE 13:17:29 TOTALLY 13:17:59 In other news I want to get the latest version of Chrome but I have no idea how. 13:18:22 *Chromium 13:18:36 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:19:05 Chromium or Chrome, and which latest version? 13:19:18 i.e. for Chrome, which channel; for Chromium, which release or... uhhh... VCS commit 13:19:35 s/Chroimum, which/Chromium,/ 13:20:08 Whichever one has WebGL. 13:21:05 I refus eto let you be Sgeo. 13:21:07 *refuse to 13:21:19 It's just for a fractal viewer thing that looks interesting. 13:21:26 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/WebGLScreenShot.png "Screenshot from a WebGL-based game running in a web browser" 13:21:29 Meet Sgeo 13:21:31 I'm not going to add it to Google or anything. 13:22:20 Anyway, presumably you just want to switch to the official "ever-so-slightly-closed-source" Google version that updates through apt. 13:22:32 That's easier than building Chromium and keeping it up to date. 13:22:37 You mean Chrome or... 13:22:45 Yes. 13:22:59 So remove Chromium and install the deb from http://www.google.com/chrome (it adds an apt repository, installs from it, and then self-destructs). 13:23:14 That's the stable channel, which should be fine (it has WebGL). 13:23:17 I use it. 13:23:53 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, meet optbot. He died, but I revived him. 13:23:53 elliott_: due to the way floating-point works 13:24:10 Yes. optbot's revival was entirely due to floating-point minutiae. 13:24:11 elliott_: you fail 13:24:13 optbot: :( 13:24:14 elliott_: Version information is in manifest/*.ver within each zip. Contents 13:24:19 optbot: Oh? 13:24:19 elliott_: Yeah. 13:24:24 optbot: OH YEAH. 13:24:24 elliott_: well so was this 13:25:01 Phantom_Hoover: He sets our channel topic every six hours and babbles in the same way. 13:25:06 elliott_, in other stupid-ring-related news, turns out that rhenium looks awesome but has unknown toxicological effects, so it's unwise. 13:25:08 Phantom_Hoover: Like the good old days. 13:25:14 EXCUSE ME, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OPTBOT. 13:25:22 fungot: Competition! 13:25:23 He was here before you! 13:25:23 fizzie: my english is too bad, but if it did not exceed fnord per gcc session.' then x is done. 13:25:32 fizzie: Erm, considering that optbot inspired fungot's babbling in the first place... :P 13:25:33 elliott_: well, at least they're honest 13:25:33 elliott_: arcus translation is better, amiga or atari. 13:25:43 optbot: fizzie is NOT honest at all 13:25:43 elliott_: fuck 13:25:44 It's still competition. 13:25:44 *! 13:25:49 optbot: Yeah. You done a bad. 13:25:49 elliott_: "nor will they nerver be integrated"? 13:26:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:26:06 optbot: I hope you're never integrated with fungot, at least. That sounds wrong. 13:26:06 elliott_: and he thought that the outside of that boundary-line was "definition" and then he asked me: What do you think is on the inside of that boundary? 13:26:06 elliott_: or at least a month, and wasn't quite done ( modulo stuff like ipv4/ 6), still, i don't 13:26:21 optbot: You shouldn't talk to that other bot. He's a bad influence. Also crazy. 13:26:21 elliott_: probably 13:26:24 optbot: Definitely. 13:26:24 elliott_: Also, you can't share Gmail messages. 13:26:28 optbot: Why not? 13:26:28 elliott_: Well, that was a fun experiment anyway :P 13:26:38 optbot: It may have been fun, but talking to fungot is NOT good for your health. 13:26:39 elliott_: windows* 13:26:39 elliott_: is that something you are looking for more bdb like approach. feeley doesn't agree. it " should replace the implementation of tco. 13:26:45 optbot: It's not good for your... Windows? 13:26:45 elliott_: It's interesting how a beautiful mathematical framework can look all contrived and stuff once you turn it into a programming language 13:26:51 optbot: You're contrived. 13:26:51 elliott_: 18 13:26:55 Phantom_Hoover: Behold! 13:27:19 Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about? 13:28:57 Dammit, Chrome didn't get Chromium's settings. 13:29:21 Phantom_Hoover: mv .config/chromium .config/google-chrome 13:29:23 Same for .cache, I think. 13:29:26 This is not difficult. 13:29:32 (Remove the target directories first, obviously.) 13:29:37 (And close Chrome before all of it.) 13:29:45 Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about? 13:29:50 How should I know? He's a bot. 13:30:50 I know, but these are pulled from the logs, are they not? 13:32:32 Phantom_Hoover: How would I know? 13:34:09 [[The "matter at hand" I was addressing was the double standard in ais523's argument, which is relevant, even if you don't understand why.]] 13:34:19 — the idiot who disagreed with ais 13:34:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:38:36 how on earth does that moron still have 4 points 13:38:45 * elliott_ upvotes MatmaRex for being the only non-stupid reply 13:39:06 elliott_, there are two replies. 13:39:16 Yes. 13:39:17 Yes there are. 13:39:25 One of them is stupid, and the other one, MatmaRex wrote. 13:39:47 "To anyone who thinks this discovery has only dry theoretical importance, you're mistaken: It is no longer possible to righteously chastise people who claim to "program in HTML"." --the same idiot, top of the thread 13:39:51 So wait... 13:39:56 The discovery could be said to only have "dry theoretical importance"... 13:40:03 yet it only "proves" something in "practice", not in "theory"... 13:40:23 Hey copumpkin, how's your downvote brigade these days 13:40:43 elliott_, c'mon, that's just a joke. 13:40:54 Phantom_Hoover: Shaddap. :p 13:41:17 "Nope. While this very clever person was able to create a Turing-complete machine in HTML and CSS, it doesn't run by itself. The user has to repeatedly click to step it." 13:41:18 "ahem, Turing-completeness is about problems, not machines." 13:41:22 No. No it isn't. 13:41:26 (Thankfully this one has -4 points.) 13:42:49 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/KindFact 13:42:52 Now this is awesome. 13:43:02 I might just be saying that because Conor proposed it. 13:43:07 It is impossible to say. 13:44:56 where is the whole html/css TC debate? 13:45:01 someone throw me a link here 13:46:19 reddit.com/things 13:49:26 oh 13:49:33 that isn't much of a thread 13:50:16 i thought it was going to be a bunch of folks being idiots. but it was just one guy. 13:50:45 Yes, and now half of #esoteric is on him. 13:50:52 Yes. 13:50:54 All three of us. 13:51:03 i upvoted wreckerone though. very insightful 13:51:05 LIKE BASICALLY HALF 13:51:18 All six actives, of which ten or Finnish. 13:51:19 *are 13:52:09 elliott_, so anyway 13:52:19 IRIDIUM OR RUTHENIUM 13:52:49 IRIDIRUTHENIUM 13:52:56 NO ALLOYS 13:52:58 THE MOST DANGEROUS ALLOY 13:53:11 ALLOYS ARE THE WORK OF SATAN 13:55:02 http://www.diamondworld.net/contentview.aspx?item=4242 13:55:03 HMM 13:55:07 Wait, what? 13:55:45 Based on the listed prices for the .5mm iridium wire, it actually seems relatively cheap to make a ring from it. 13:56:01 Admittedly, metalworking costs need to be accounted for, but still. 13:59:41 Also, I need to make the final draft of that Comic Sans essay. 14:15:32 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:16:27 -!- cpressey has joined. 14:17:36 i feel ill 14:17:42 The Pythonistas are everywhere. 14:17:45 They could be in here right now. 14:17:47 It's not safe! 14:18:14 the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. 14:18:18 it was a cheat-quine 14:18:24 :D 14:18:35 and she was like, "now try writing this in C!" howls of derisive laughter. 14:18:40 `addquote the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. it was a cheat-quine 14:18:43 argh two spaces at the end 14:20:02 optbot: What is your opinion on Python? 14:20:02 elliott_: what direction? 14:20:09 cpressey: What direction is all the Python? 14:20:12 Left? 14:21:14 all i know is it's got me down 14:21:18 optbot: Down. 14:21:18 elliott_: I found this, rather interesting: gopher://blubb.ch/11/software/fbf 14:21:20 http://en.literateprograms.org/Quine_%28Python%29 14:21:24 cpressey: Gopher will set you free. 14:21:49 "Another way of implementing quines is to have them print the contents of their own files. This is made possible by the fact that Python is an interpreted language; in C, such a quine would be impossible, due to the difference between source code and executable file." 14:21:50 fml 14:21:59 the slide was only up for a moment but I believe it was one from that page: 14:22:01 a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a) 14:22:01 I like the part where these programs aren't literate at all 14:22:15 cpressey: hmm, I'm not sure that counts as a cheat 14:22:21 repr? please 14:22:27 oh 14:22:31 well right, that's pretty lame 14:22:47 very lame, but maybe not a cheat quine (i'd reserve cheat for programs that read their own source literally) 14:22:50 AND exec() 14:22:54 -!- pumpkin has joined. 14:22:56 (with the empty program not being considered a quine at all) 14:23:01 that's like, double-cheat 14:23:02 cpressey: well there's that standard lisp quine 14:23:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:23:27 ((lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))) '(lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x)))) 14:23:34 quote is... sorta... like repr... kinda 14:23:43 well, (list 'quote x) is sorta like repr. kinda. 14:23:46 hmm what was the one with eval 14:23:47 whatever 14:23:48 No output. 14:23:51 10 LIST 10 14:24:04 it was a cheat-quine 14:24:07 `addquote the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. it was a cheat-quine 14:24:08 Cheat-quine? 14:24:09 stupid HackEgo 14:24:12 You mean it read the file? 14:24:22 Phantom_Hoover: RTFEverything else :P 14:24:23 333) the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. it was a cheat-quine 14:24:29 Phantom_Hoover: < cpressey> a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a) 14:24:52 scheme@(guile-user)> ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) 14:24:53 $2 = ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) 14:24:55 well that works 14:25:27 cpressey: that quine thing on the literate programmings site just makes it a worse rosettacode... 14:25:33 they don't even print the <>= part of the program! 14:25:35 it's not really that it was a cheat-quine that makes me ill. it's that it had nothing to do with the rest of the talk, wasn't explained, and was apparently lifted off a web page with no credit given 14:25:54 the language source itself is the result of compilation, that's like a "quine" that prints out its own machine code 14:25:59 (not that that wouldn't be impressive) 14:26:01 *that /that/ 14:26:15 especially if it stored its own source and compiled it on the fly :) 14:26:24 the rest of the talk was dippy too, actually, and the whole thing is just pissing me off. 14:26:33 as in, with its own compiler. 14:26:43 cpressey: you haven't told us what exciting pythonicity it was about!!! 14:26:51 We need to keep up, you know. 14:26:58 elliott_: it was about... "data science"! 14:27:04 Data... science! 14:27:05 DATA SCIENCE 14:27:10 It's about doing science on data. 14:27:13 cpressey, elliott_ wants a picture of Guido van Rossum looking disappointed. 14:27:16 Also known as: science. 14:27:16 YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO 14:27:18 Phantom_Hoover: ALREADY FOUND ONE 14:27:25 elliott_, MORE DISAPPOINTED 14:27:34 (Actually I'd like to see him angry now, please get Guido really angry and/or disappointed and snap a picture.) 14:27:45 Say you, uhh... 14:27:52 Wrote a Python VM in Perl. 14:28:03 And, um, made it force everyone to use tabs. 14:28:09 snark != anger 14:28:18 And since you work for Microsoft it's going into Visual Studio 2012. 14:28:27 And being advertised as Microsoft Python. 14:28:34 Actually don't say that, he might cry. 14:28:57 Ooh, ooh, I know! 14:29:20 "I write voting machines that give every vote to the Republicans. And it wouldn't have been possible, without Python." 14:31:46 http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2010/10/02/first-pycon-keynote-speaker-announced-hilary-mason/ 14:32:16 cpressey: "I'm a computer science professor, data scientist, and web geek." 14:32:22 cpressey: WHY IS SHE A PROFESSOR 14:32:31 this is not the talk, but it is another talk by the same person, this year, so you can experience the /kind/ of pain I just went through: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y 14:32:32 "She has discovered two new species, loves to bake cookies, and asks way too many questions." 14:32:35 Poor species. 14:32:41 specieses. 14:32:54 "[LOL IT'S EARLY COFFEE JOKE]" 14:32:59 cpressey: _must_ i sit through this? 14:33:04 i have to decide now whether to kill myself or go on a month-long binge of exotic drugs 14:33:07 elliott_: YOU MUST 14:33:09 :< 14:33:12 cpressey: do both 14:33:15 cpressey, exotic drugs. 14:33:19 THINK OF THE ESOLANGS 14:33:24 "I want to talk about data, and data, and people who work with data." 14:33:25 And data. 14:33:27 THINK OF THE PUKE 14:33:55 ok, well 14:34:05 "regular" talks coming up 14:34:17 cpressey: plz liveblog here 14:34:17 cpressey, should we send reinforcements? 14:34:35 WORK WITH DATA BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE FOR DATA 14:34:35 Phantom_Hoover: just be prepared... for anything 14:34:37 TOO MUCH DATA 14:34:46 cpressey: Liveblog or no reinforcements! 14:34:55 cpressey, we might be able to get a flash drive with GHC on it through. 14:35:22 Honestly, if I could be in either cpressey's position, or in the position of someone endangered by the events in Japan... 14:35:28 Hey, it'd be a nice swim. 14:35:50 cpressey: Is GHC 6.4 acceptable? 7 won't fit on the hundred floppy disks we have allocated to the task. 14:36:06 They will be dropped from a helicopter. Please be prepared to dodge as the roof falls. 14:36:24 i dunno about liveblogging but i'll keep you abreast of any further sickness. 14:36:26 oh 14:36:27 cooool 14:36:44 cpressey: We're going to drop them so as to hit as many Pythonistas as possible. 14:36:44 that's just what this needs, actually 14:36:58 cpressey: Please purchase a device that can read 3 1/2" floppy disks. 14:37:27 i'll see what i can do. need to dive back into the fray now 14:37:30 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:37:41 A true American hero. 14:38:35 pikhq_: So, is RTK3 actually worth buying, in the long run? 'TIS MONEYCOSTING 14:40:43 -!- augur has joined. 14:42:42 whoa. cpressey came back for...minutes! 14:43:07 quintopia: he was here yesterday too. 14:43:09 he's at PyCon. 14:43:13 we don't know how much longer he'll last. 14:43:14 yes 14:43:22 why am i not at pycon 14:43:27 the 100 floppies should get there in a few hours 14:43:29 it's just miles away 14:43:30 quintopia: because pycon is the worst thing ever 14:43:37 and i could meet cpressey! 14:43:58 PyCon, from the root words pyc (torture-rape) and on (demonic-place), is more commonly known as "Hell". 14:45:45 -!- sftp has joined. 14:47:26 -!- cpressey has joined. 14:47:34 cpressey, any news? 14:47:39 i only have an hour of battery 14:47:40 cpressey: * cpressey (~cpressey@conference/pycon/x-mcktulsevreylzfb) has joined #esoteric 14:47:42 cpressey: your hostname 14:47:43 cpressey: dear god 14:47:52 cpressey: use webchat.freenode.net so it overrides it with your ip 14:48:03 i'm at a talk about celery. it's dull. THAT'S GOOD. 14:48:10 YOU'RE TAINTED 14:48:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +b *!*@conference/pycon/*. 14:48:19 Problem? 14:48:27 I wholeheartedly approve... but actually remove that :P 14:48:29 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: -b *!*@conference/pycon/*. 14:48:31 :P 14:48:38 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:48:45 Gregor, WILL YOU HELP ME WITH MY ENGLISH HOMEWORK 14:48:57 what talk are you in cpressey? 14:49:03 Phantom_Hoover: OK YOU WANT TO REPLACE "YOU ARE" WITH "YOUR" AND "YOU'RE" WITH "YOUR" AND "THEIR" WITH "YOUR" 14:49:07 quintopia: it's about celery. 14:49:14 i got that much 14:49:15 i'm going to assume he means literally celery 14:49:16 Phantom_Hoover: THEN REPLACE "YOUR" WITH "YORE" 14:49:16 not http://celeryproject.org/. 14:49:20 it's probably actual celery. 14:49:32 Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS 14:49:37 yeah, and my laptop is freaking out 14:50:14 cpressey: it can smell the python. 14:50:23 I suggest uninstalling it from your system to reassure it. 14:50:49 quintopia: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/1/ 14:51:00 Comic Sans is French for "not funny" 14:51:13 i can barely type -keystrokes dropped or repeated 14:51:16 More like "without funny" :P 14:51:23 cpressey: SUDO APTITUDE PURGE PYTHON 14:51:33 -2.5 or -2.6 or -25 or whatever :P 14:51:39 i read that as "sudooooooooooooooooooooooooooo appetite" 14:51:44 well, not the ooooooo part so much 14:51:46 that was my keyboard 14:51:51 elliott_: I'm bending it a bit to make it grammatically meaningful :P 14:52:09 Sudo Appetite, the worst superhero. 14:52:30 " Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS" <<< you're still on this? 14:52:40 Apatite, the best mineral there is. 14:52:41 oklopol, I need to redraft it. 14:52:51 alright 14:53:42 i don't get any of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y 14:53:59 That's a good sign. 14:54:20 except that amazing stuff is going on 14:54:21 How PyCon orders partners: Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond. 14:55:05 diamond, eh 14:55:23 oklopol: is that the link i pasted earlier? 14:55:43 yes 14:55:47 elliott_, WHY ARE NEITHER IRIDIUM NOR RUTHENIUM ON THAT LIST 14:55:50 Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Ladder. 14:55:56 nooga: yes. 14:57:00 oklopol: welcome to data science 14:57:05 s/ladder/artificial heart/ 14:57:14 :D 14:57:19 those things are expensive 14:57:34 i've taken courses like that 14:57:50 well. less hype, but anyhow something about data. i didn't get it. 14:58:25 oklopol: SCIEEEENCE 14:58:28 data on science. 14:58:31 it's science data 14:58:32 data science! 14:59:02 i hould try to save battery for more objectionable moments than this talk. 14:59:04 later 14:59:13 cpressey: go to guido 14:59:15 laterses 14:59:18 wherever guido is 14:59:18 find him 14:59:20 cpressey, why aren't you being WITTY 14:59:23 and tell him to say hi to #esoteric 14:59:24 :( 14:59:28 and we will greet him 14:59:30 with love 14:59:32 and eternal carnage 14:59:41 (Best kind of love) 14:59:46 So should I try to get APT guy into PyCon as an agent? 14:59:48 And murder. 14:59:51 The best best kind of love. 15:00:01 *APT Guy 15:02:09 Meanwhile: http://i.imgur.com/rcna5.jpg 15:03:12 Can I put "IN PIAM MEMORIAM" on [[Chris Pressey]]? 15:03:18 No. 15:03:19 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:03:25 :( 15:04:14 so chris is interested in testing eh 15:04:41 quintopia: I have this feeling he's there because of his employer :P 15:04:46 JUST A HUNCH THOUGH. 15:04:50 quintopia, iridium or ruthenium? 15:04:56 ruthenium 15:05:13 elliott_: who's his employer? 15:05:23 quintopia: Sekrit. 15:05:28 JOKE RESPONSE 15:05:32 quintopia: Cat's Eye Technologies. 15:06:29 well, he signed up for a testing BoF tomorrow... 15:06:38 so something to do with testing 15:06:52 quintopia: ? 15:06:54 are you cyberstalking him? :) 15:07:10 he's just a code monkey afaik. which involves involves writing tests in this Enlightened Age 15:07:20 i see 15:07:28 http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/ 15:07:28 Conference Schedule 15:07:29 E 15:07:29 = EXTREME PyCon 15:07:30 *E = 15:07:53 cpressey being a code monkey depresses me. 15:08:03 Beats manager. 15:08:10 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:08:17 Why, what do they do? 15:08:25 Fuck all. 15:09:03 code mlnkey seems okay. you have a chair and you get paid. then you can think about whatever you want when you get home 15:09:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:09:58 Code mlnkey. 15:10:03 quintopia: except it's Python. 15:10:11 You have to deal with the Pythonistas and their Pythonicness. 15:10:22 Extreme Programming Best Practices Design Patterns 15:10:23 brb vomit 15:10:38 :D 15:10:40 elliott_, I am so glad I have never heard anyone say these things. 15:10:52 YES, DEALING WITH PEOPLE IS THE DOWNSIDE OF THE JOB 15:10:59 quintopia: also their code. 15:11:04 Phantom_Hoover: Just wait for the First International #esoteric Conference. 15:11:05 shit, accidental caps lock 15:11:18 elliott_, where there will be 14 people? 15:11:18 I'm going to give a talk on Extreme Design Pattern Practices and how to use your code fu to become a ninja rockstar. 15:11:25 Phantom_Hoover: Whoa, that many?! 15:11:28 elliott_: eh fixing their code is easier than talking to them 15:11:34 Hmm. 15:11:41 Depends where it is :P 15:11:54 Regulars who aren't idiots... 15:12:01 Finland would be the "logical" choice to maximise participants, but then anywhere in that part of Europe is pretty much interchangable, flights take like 0 seconds and cost £0. 15:12:21 There's a non-negligible amount of American here after all. 15:12:33 Probably the UK or Finland would be the best choice... not that anyone would show up. 15:12:53 is it still normal to say a certain building is "in" a certain street in british english? 15:13:08 -!- blueraf has joined. 15:13:11 Uhhh... dunno, maybe. 15:13:12 blueraf: ello 15:13:36 Gregor, coppro, elliott_, fizzie, Ilari, oklopol, me (I hope), pikhq_, quintopia, Sgeo (arguably), Vorpal (*very* loosely). 15:13:55 -!- blueraf has left (?). 15:14:16 , ineiros, tswett, oklopol 15:14:18 oerjan too 15:14:21 oerjan 15:14:22 augur 15:14:26 pikhq_: 15:14:32 olsner 15:14:33 nooga 15:14:41 I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry. 15:14:46 Everyone else almost certainly doesn't care enough to come :-P 15:14:50 elliott_: what 15:14:51 tswett: AND WHY IS THAT 15:14:56 augur: Blame PH 15:14:56 it was my birthday yesterday 15:14:58 Would ineiros? 15:14:59 congratulate me 15:15:04 Phantom_Hoover: fizzie would drag him along. 15:15:08 augur: Congratulations on not dying. 15:15:18 tswett: I wonder if that's a script. 15:15:21 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:22 augur, congratulations, you have successfully allowed time to affect you. 15:15:26 I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry. 15:15:28 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:30 Aww. 15:15:31 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:31 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:31 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:34 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:35 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:35 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:36 tswett tswett tswett 15:15:41 ... 15:15:44 tswett 15:15:57 i get to come twice? 15:16:01 tswett 15:16:08 oklopol: yes, just like a woman! 15:16:09 ARF ARF ARF 15:16:11 I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry. 15:16:30 tswett: Either you have rand() calls, or that's not a script :P 15:16:32 Phantom_Hoover: Y'know what normal users who aren't idiots do? Contribute to the Gregoran Somalian Relief Fund 15:16:58 I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry. 15:17:41 I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry. 15:17:46 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:17:47 Gregor, I AM SORRY BUT I AM NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE MONEY TO YOU BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BE A PAEDOPHILE 15:18:01 Donate to me; I'm *definitely* a paedophile. 15:18:03 There is no ambiguity. 15:18:41 haha you mean you like kids your own age 15:18:43 hahahahaa 15:18:48 -!- wareya has joined. 15:18:53 that thing never gets old 15:18:56 ...elliott that is 15:18:57 xdDDD 15:18:59 XXDDDD 15:19:00 xD 15:19:01 anyhow. 15:19:13 elliott_ cannot age. 15:19:19 It's been scientifically proven. 15:19:25 This just in: 15:19:26 Dicks dicks dicks. 15:19:59 wait tswett doesn't respond to pings on this channel? 15:20:04 que 15:20:06 Come, now. I don't just say "dicks dicks dicks". I say specific things about dicks. 15:20:14 Dicks dick. 15:20:21 That sort of thing. 15:21:24 Such as "come, now" 15:21:38 `addquote My penis is definitely way smaller than that. 15:21:39 333) My penis is definitely way smaller than that. 15:21:45 tswett: confirm/deny 15:21:54 Let me look it up. 15:22:14 In the the famous Sizes of Things as Compared to Tanner Swett's Genitalia? 15:22:20 A true classic. 15:22:24 No, on reddit. I got about 70 karma points for that one. 15:22:37 And then promptly exchanged those karma points for money. 15:22:39 Okay, 61 karma points. 15:22:43 It's like being a prostitute. 15:22:54 And yes, the wording and punctuation and everything are all correct. 15:23:00 http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ch7hq/it_takes_7_seconds_for_food_to_pass_from_mouth_to/c0sk64d 15:23:19 Your penis is indeed definitely smaller than that 404. 15:23:31 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_actual_size.png 15:23:31 What is karma actually good for? 15:23:49 Phantom_Hoover: some guy once redeemed his karma for a golden reddit alien torso. 15:23:55 Phantom_Hoover: It can buy several goods such as blowjobs and blowjobs. 15:23:55 Gold-painted, rather. 15:24:01 Also, blowjobs. 15:24:05 Someone click on Gregor's link and tell me what it's a picture of. :P 15:24:07 tswett, not even iridium? 15:24:08 It is a currency based on blowjobs. 15:24:21 tswett, god only knows. 15:24:30 tswett: It's a picture of your penis as compared to the sizes of other objects. 15:24:30 Oh, and HDTV aerial. 15:24:34 *an 15:24:40 elliott_: oh, okay. 15:24:43 * tswett clicks. 15:24:59 Gregor: Oh, that's an aerial? :P 15:25:19 I can't tell what that big long thing on top is. 15:25:20 It's an ANTENNA 15:25:37 Scientists have yet to discover what the big long thing on top of tswett's penis is. 15:25:40 I guess it's an aerial, like Gregor said. 15:25:55 tswett: Quick, go downvote ais523 and upvote __j_random_hacker! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g0d5g/breaking_news_html5css3_is_turing_complete/c1k03fg 15:26:01 Here I am using the psychological principle of reverse psychology. 15:26:10 That thing's a good fifteen feet long. 15:26:18 (Metric conversion: about 5 meters.) 15:26:31 Jesus, he's up to 7 points. 15:26:40 Who are these idiots? 15:27:13 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_really_actual_size.png 15:27:44 Is that a picture of an HDTVA? 15:27:57 Yes. 15:28:01 Actual-size. 15:28:08 REALLY actual size. 15:28:12 Oh, it's a picture of this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hdtva&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8433157347537932007&sa=X&ei=ZUl6TZvfDsHirAGsleiQBg&ved=0CEAQ8wIwAg# 15:28:18 Gregor: Expect next picture to compare it to the Milky Way. 15:28:34 Here's a better link to it: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?cid=8433157347537932007 15:28:43 Then the observable universe. 15:29:19 Then Gregor's nose. 15:29:26 (The aerial is slightly smaller) 15:29:35 The next picture will compare it to itself. 15:29:55 tswett: Excuse me, having executed a successful Jew joke, the thread of discussion is now over. 15:30:05 Oh, okay. 15:30:09 elliott_: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_the_one_true_and_real_actual_.png How'd yah know :P 15:30:12 Is Gregor of Jewish descent? 15:30:20 Yes. Also ENGLISH 15:30:23 tswett: You misspelled ``kikeular''. 15:30:49 Gregor: OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE, THEN YOUR NOSE, KTHX 15:30:52 But "kike" isn't a Latin root ending in a consonant. 15:30:53 executing jews is NOT a joke 15:31:04 That Hubble picture would work too. 15:31:05 even if they're succesful jews. 15:31:09 *s 15:31:10 http://www.firstpr.com.au/astrophysics/hubble-deep-field/Hubble-Deep-Field-1024-wide.jpg 15:31:20 elliott_: I made these YEARS ago :P 15:31:30 Gregor: You must complete the sequence. 15:31:50 Ending with it resting on top of your nose. 15:31:57 The largest object possible. 15:32:34 i'm so gonna go out to drink with some friends now 15:34:28 memetech.com now completely replaced. 15:34:39 I will have to attempt to contact the owner. 15:34:41 What was it? 15:35:29 oiu manifesto + cap system pdf. 15:37:25 Ah. 15:37:27 Emailed. 15:38:37 Phantom_Hoover: See http://web.archive.org/web/20080411221531/http://www.memetech.com/, though that lacks the cap stuff. 15:39:08 Ah, right. 15:39:48 You'd've thought that with all these people trying to make essentially the same OS, some tangible progress would have been made. 15:41:13 Phantom_Hoover: There's no way everyone's trying to make the same OS; the most common property is distinctness from Unix. 15:41:36 The fact that their bases (plural of basis!) share quite a bit of material is due only to the *sheer obviousness* of those ideas. 15:41:39 elliott_, well, no filesystem is very common. 15:42:01 Yes, because you have to try hard to be stupid to invent a filesystem if you ignore Unix. 15:42:12 Fair enough. 15:46:49 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:48:18 * Phantom_Hoover decides to test the Law Of #esoteric Expertise. 15:48:26 Anyone in here know about metalworking? 15:48:57 `addquote Oh god. I've become a metallurgy hipster. Iridium is way too mainstream. 15:48:57 334) Oh god. I've become a metallurgy hipster. Iridium is way too mainstream. 15:52:32 I know the tiniest bit about metalworking. 15:52:51 -!- Zuu has joined. 15:52:53 Metals melt when you get them hot enough. Liquid metals can be mixed. 15:53:10 Metal is easier to work when it's hotter. 15:53:37 tswett, regrettably not enough. 15:53:38 Phantom_Hoover: URANIUM RING 15:53:39 When metal is cooled slowly, it ends up relatively soft; if it's cooled quickly, it ends up harder. 15:54:04 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/HEUraniumC.jpg ;; perfect ring material 15:54:18 tswett, in case you missed it, I spent yesterday evening looking up platinum group metals and their practicality as rings. 15:54:28 Oh, cool. 15:55:10 Which of the platinum group metals is the cheapest? 15:55:14 Osmium looks really cool, but it has the obnoxious property of oxidising in air to a highly toxic gas. 15:55:24 tswett, not sure. 15:55:37 There's not really a single source that I can find that's grounded in reality. 15:55:57 Really obnoxious property. 15:56:18 [Name]... will you marry me? [PSSSSSSSSSSSHT] "Well, our love will persist beyond the grave." 15:56:42 (PSSSSSSSSSSSHT is the noise osmium makes when it oxidises into a highly toxic gas.) 15:56:50 Douchebag Osmium: 15:56:53 LOOKS REALLY PRETTY 15:56:55 elliott_, nah, it does it really slowly. 15:56:57 OXIDISES INTO HIGHLY TOXIC GAS 15:57:01 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:57:16 But I still wouldn't want it around my finger for protracted periods. 15:57:17 Looks like at the moment, palladium is in fact cheaper than platinum. 15:57:21 Weird, isn't it. 15:57:24 Interesting. 15:57:29 Still TOO MAINSTREAM. 15:57:46 Palladium is quite the borings. 15:57:55 Same goes for ruthenium, although it's normally electroplated AFAICT. 15:57:57 Phantom_Hoover: DEMAND RADON RING 15:58:16 elliott_, a ring made of gas? 15:58:27 Phantom_Hoover: Demand solid radon ring. 15:58:47 And rhodium appears to be more expensive than platinum. 15:58:49 tswett, I did find a source for iridium and osmium which listed prices. 15:59:06 Yeah, rhodium is really rare and really useful, hence expensive. 15:59:15 s/osmium/rhenium/ 15:59:49 I found samples of osmium and ruthenium on eBay, although I suspect they'd be even harder to use than wire. 16:00:00 Phantom_Hoover: ^{286}Uut ring please. 16:00:10 Half-life of ~20s, that's good enough for anyone. 16:00:24 (Rhenium has the second-highest melting point of any metal.) 16:00:52 LITHIUM RING 16:00:53 DO IT NOW 16:00:53 Roentgenium is more noble and more discovered than ununtrium. 16:01:10 Phantom_Hoover: the highest is tungsten, right? 16:01:17 tswett: On the other hand, your mom is more noble than ... things. 16:01:30 tswett, yep. 16:01:37 Phantom_Hoover: I really want a ring made out of CP. 16:01:39 My chemistry teacher once said something like, "Why don't we make rings out of lithium? Because they would burn your hand off." 16:01:45 So, ununbium, please. 16:01:50 Hmm, it does appear that others have considered rhenium rings, but it's still hipsterish enough. 16:01:57 elliott_, CP? 16:01:59 elliott_: made out of... carbon phosphide? 16:02:07 Like I said, ununbium. 16:02:13 Also known by mainstreamers as CoPernicium. 16:02:17 Ooh. 16:02:23 Unfortunately for SOME reason it was assigned Cn instead of Cp. 16:02:28 Probably because of Jews. 16:03:10 I wonder what the heaviest element with a Wikipedia article is. 16:03:22 -!- cpressey has joined. 16:03:41 cpressey, any news? 16:03:51 Have the Pythonistas turned you? 16:04:02 was at a talk about unit tests. it was relatively sane, so i listened. 16:04:12 i'm about to experience: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/245/ 16:04:28 oh man. 16:04:36 cpressey: found a socket to charge yet? 16:04:38 yeah, i'm doing this one for your entertainment. 16:04:45 Looks like it's untriseptium. 16:04:45 and yes, i'm plugged in 16:04:46 wow, this is a metapresentation. 16:04:50 I am astonished. 16:04:51 and no, they haven't turned on me yet. 16:05:02 but have they turned you on?! obligatory, had to, move along 16:05:13 Darn atomic instability. I want every possible chemical element to be possible. 16:05:29 there are two categories of talks, afaict: 'novice' and 'extreme'. 16:05:34 I WANT RING MADE OUT OF AN ALLOY OF EVERY SINGLE ELEMENT. 16:05:40 cpressey: yeah I quoted 16:05:44 "E = EXTREME PyCon" 16:05:45 --http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/ 16:05:59 this does not appear to be an extreme course. so maybe we can handle it. 16:06:01 elliott_, even the ones that don't make alloys? 16:06:06 Phantom_Hoover: MAKE THEM 16:06:22 all extreme talks are given in henry rollins style! 16:06:31 that's a pycon i could support. 16:07:20 cpressey: How much do we have to pay you to get you to run up on stage and yell about how unChristian this evil feminist tripe is? 16:07:51 elliott_, OMG BEST IDEA 16:07:59 START AN ASTEROID MINING CORPORATION 16:08:12 MAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF STUPIDLY RARE METALS THAT YOU GET FROM THEM 16:08:17 Phantom_Hoover: Read as "asteroid naming"; well, they already do theorems and stars and things. 16:08:21 But YES I AGREE 16:08:33 I wonder what the most promiscuous possible alloy is. 16:08:55 Helium-Neon 16:09:18 yourmomium 16:09:39 I MEAN THE ONE WITH MOST CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS JEEZ 16:09:41 cpressey: yelling yet? 16:10:33 i have to wait for the most embarassing possible moment 16:11:40 yessssss 16:11:46 make sure someone's videoing 16:16:50 13:29:59 Is there anything like the Internet WRT that affair? 16:16:50 13:30:27 I can't think other time that taking firm action against a problem makes it 100,000 times worse. 16:16:50 Sure thing, Barbara Streisand. 16:17:44 What's he talking about 16:17:45 *? 16:20:26 Phantom_Hoover: 09 f9 16:32:01 08:31:10 There is no OS but GNU, and Linux is one of it's kernels. 16:32:01 YES MR PIKHQ 16:32:39 pikhq_, YOU ARE NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE SET OF COOL PEOPLE 16:45:49 ...what. 16:46:00 Rhenium has a higher Mohs hardness than iridium. 16:46:44 But a lower shear modulus. 16:47:12 13:30:08 ...you made a program that... 16:47:12 13:30:10 prints itself? 16:47:15 WHAT IS THIS WITCHERY 16:47:33 Please tell me that was his idiot incarnation. 16:47:45 What. 16:48:00 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:59:41 -!- elliott_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:02:52 -!- elliott has joined. 17:04:46 optbot! 17:04:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | could it be rescripted so that the ball, as soon as it hits it, just disappears and you lose a point?. 17:13:37 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:20:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#The_language_defined_by_the_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Report_on_the_Algorithmic_Language_Scheme 17:20:46 NEW DEADFISH IMPLEMENTATION 17:21:27 NO!! THERE IS BUG!! 17:22:12 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | !kill 2. 17:27:45 optbot! 17:27:45 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | the protocol must be a valid URI protocol.. 17:27:47 optbot! 17:27:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Yeah, I suppose it could be used like that. 17:27:48 optbot! 17:27:48 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip. 17:28:07 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 17:28:07 (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:28:18 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 17:28:19 (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:28:48 ...unpl doesn't do eta elimination? 17:29:24 Wait, that's not eta elimination. 17:29:56 Phantom_Hoover: It's unpl. 17:29:58 @unpl flip 17:29:58 (\ a b c -> a c b) 17:30:11 Phantom_Hoover: It expands things that are used in pointfree code. 17:30:14 :t flip 17:30:14 flip is one of those things. 17:30:15 forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 17:30:22 (Note: Caleskell.) 17:30:37 I see that. 17:33:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:34:08 argh the bubble wrap of topics 17:34:18 oerjan: wut 17:34:22 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 17:34:23 (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:34:24 we did it earlier :) 17:34:31 seems like flip^N = flip 17:34:31 because 17:34:39 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 17:34:39 (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:34:41 elliott: i thought you might which is the only reason i resisted 17:34:46 @unpl flip 17:34:46 (\ a b c -> a c b) 17:34:47 @unpl flip flip 17:34:47 (\ b c f -> c f b) 17:34:49 @unpl flip flip flip 17:34:49 (\ c f -> c f (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:34:51 ah 17:34:53 flip^3 === flip 17:34:55 @unpl flip flip flip flip 17:34:55 (\ f l -> f l (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:34:58 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip 17:34:58 (\ l o -> l o (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:35:00 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip 17:35:00 (\ o r -> o r (\ g h i -> g i h)) 17:35:09 hm 17:35:14 flip^(3+n) === flip 17:35:39 flip and fmap, are there any others like that... 17:37:15 flip flip flip flip = flip flip flip, surely... 17:37:49 oh right that's what you said 17:38:01 * oerjan read it as flip^(3+n) === flip^n 17:38:52 * oerjan gets his cod dinner 17:46:57 oerjan: quick, we need more deadfish implementations!!!!! 17:48:37 i'm afraid my dinner is not useful for computation. not until the results reach my brain, anyhow. 17:49:50 oerjan: no no i just mean it in general 17:49:59 i've done the language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme 17:50:06 but we only have 22 implementations 17:50:08 that's not nearly enough 17:50:22 ah. i may have a certain experience in the matter. 17:50:34 cpressey has done falcon :D 17:50:43 Don't tell Sgeo! 17:50:54 Sgeo, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON A RHENIUM RING? 17:51:05 it doesn't use oob though :( 17:51:38 Most awesomely crazy Falcon idea: store numbers in arrays of arbitrary objects. 17:51:52 X-D 17:52:01 I might even suggest that... 17:52:08 Store a natural as a list of log_2 random numbers. 17:52:11 *log_2(n) 17:52:20 Or even log_2(n) empty lists. 17:58:47 * Phantom_Hoover gets his troll on 17:58:54 Phantom_Hoover: psht 17:58:56 -!- Vonlebio has joined. 17:59:09 Phantom_Hoover: Waste of time (I'm in #falcon preemptively, mind you) 18:07:08 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:07:25 Dammit, Falcon always beats me when it comes down to stupidity. 18:07:54 Drag to level, beat with experience, etc. 18:08:33 quintopia, incidentally, I have decided that iridium is a pretty terrible investment. 18:10:06 As the suppliers I have found have been technical suppliers. 18:10:19 And? 18:10:45 So I wouldn't count on the prices being either stable or indicative of the "worth". 18:11:05 -!- cpressey has joined. 18:11:14 As actually refining the rarer platinum group metals is a very tricky process. 18:11:20 cpressey, how goes the conference? 18:11:23 still on the metals, eh 18:11:32 "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)" 18:11:35 Heavy 'uns! 18:11:42 "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)" 18:11:45 lawl 18:11:50 I like how raw strings aren't actually raw, mind you. 18:11:55 literal string syntax in python is a trainwreck 18:12:29 cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions... 18:12:38 With a few symbolic constants for the few common ones. 18:12:41 i like that idea too 18:12:45 or, something like it 18:12:45 (And chr() or similar for the rest.) 18:12:55 I print \n quite a lot, so I'm not sure I totally agree. Maybe just have string interpolation, but no escales. 18:12:57 *escapes. 18:13:06 So if char syntax has \n, you'd say ${'\n'} or whatever for a newline. 18:13:10 ($ is a bad choice though.) 18:13:10 elliott, how do you put the string terminator? 18:13:16 *escapes. 18:13:21 Phantom_Hoover: Same way you put other escapes. 18:13:30 i'm at the end of my first "extreme" talk; i couldn't find much difference with the "novice" talks in terms of complexity of content, but the speaker *does* have a kind of gravelly voice 18:13:31 "foo " + DQUOTE + " bar". 18:13:31 Or. 18:13:36 "foo " + '"' + " bar". 18:13:38 But the escaping isn't done at the parse level, no? 18:13:43 Or "foo #{'"'} bar". 18:13:44 Phantom_Hoover: Yes it is... 18:14:14 I thought the point is that "foo\n" => "foo\n" and the \n is only substituted when printed? 18:14:30 ... 18:14:40 whose point was that? 18:14:42 For reference, my jaw is currently situated on the floor. 18:14:52 cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions... 18:15:09 Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline. 18:15:10 i may be misremembering his post 18:15:30 http://prog21.dadgum.com/76.html 18:15:30 elliott, so it doesn't s/\n//? 18:15:35 er, it's not that one 18:15:36 it's... 18:15:42 where is it :D 18:16:07 Phantom_Hoover: No. That's an unbelievably terrible idea. 18:16:17 i don't like the idea of i/o functions "executing" escape sequences 18:16:24 well, or maybe i do, but i don't think so 18:16:30 elliott, erm, I don't understand then. 18:16:32 Maybe if it was some kind of expand() function. 18:16:33 i really have no idea 18:16:37 Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline. 18:16:38 Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline. 18:16:38 Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline. 18:16:41 woo multipastes 18:16:45 cpressey: aka printf :) 18:16:51 expand() function seems to make more sense, but... lazy/streaming 18:16:52 And lawd knows everyone loves printf!! 18:16:59 So it is a message to the print function, not the parser? 18:17:00 cpressey: sprintf!! 18:17:04 Phantom_Hoover: THERE IS NO \N 18:17:09 print(x) := print(x); printnewline() 18:17:09 good god 18:17:23 elliott, NOW I AM THE CONFUSED 18:17:28 OH RIGHT 18:17:31 THAT MAKES SENSE 18:17:41 pascal 18:17:43 Write() 18:17:45 WriteLn() 18:17:49 cpressey: haskell 18:17:50 putStr 18:17:51 putStrLn 18:17:55 (although putStr is ugly) 18:18:29 hmm, i should write a real forth os rather than trying to finish this 510-byte thing :) 18:18:38 butbutbut i almost have a compiler... 18:18:41 in haskell it should be Ln . putStr 18:18:52 cpressey: that... almost makes sense 18:18:54 except not really 18:19:02 data Output = Str String | Ln [String]? 18:19:21 elliott, what's wrong with putStr? 18:19:35 well, Ln x just appends a newline to the string x... then you putStr it. 18:19:55 Phantom_Hoover: It's ugly. 18:20:00 cpressey: that would be "putStr . Ln". 18:20:02 I know you have high standards, but how can you mess up an output function that simple? 18:20:06 but then Ln would have to be a constructor, not a function. 18:20:09 Phantom_Hoover: IT'S NOT A BAD FUNCTION 18:20:10 IT'S A BAD NAME 18:20:14 Oh. 18:20:18 You're misinterpreting simple statements a lot today :P 18:20:23 elliott: that's what i wanted to write, but i forgot which compose operator did which 18:20:24 All two of 'em. 18:20:33 cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one) 18:20:36 elliott, at no point did you indicate you were talking about the name rather than the function. 18:20:43 there isn't? hm 18:20:49 wonder what i was thinking of then 18:20:49 Phantom_Hoover: Considering that cpressey's and my points were names... 18:20:53 pascal 18:20:53 Write() 18:20:53 WriteLn() 18:20:53 cpressey: haskell 18:20:53 putStr 18:20:54 putStrLn 18:21:00 cpressey: F#? :-P 18:21:02 Scala? 18:21:11 Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Scala? 18:21:17 Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: F#? 18:21:19 everyone must learn Scala 18:21:20 Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Haskell? 18:21:28 cpressey, NOOO 18:21:32 DON'T TURN INTO SGEO 18:21:34 cpressey: everyone must learn Scala, or every other language 18:21:35 it's equivalent 18:21:38 Scala is the hot new thing because no one uses it 18:21:49 therefore: talk about a lot! 18:22:08 anyway 18:22:13 bbl 18:22:15 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:22:32 That cpressey, so zany. 18:23:08 cpressey is to languages what I am to metals. 18:23:18 No...he's not? 18:23:36 Wait, no, that's completely wrong. 18:23:44 *Sgeo* is to languages what I am to metals. 18:23:57 Sexually attracted to? 18:24:02 ...no? 18:24:04 Yes, exactly. 18:24:14 Phantom_Hoover: I cannot attribute Sgeo's behaviour to anything other than languagephilia. 18:24:19 (A cromulent word.) 18:24:55 elliott, neophilia seems more appropriate. 18:25:09 Phantom_Hoover: COBOL :-D 18:25:28 elliott, "neo" in the sense of "I haven't used it before". 18:25:37 Joke. 18:28:08 http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521 18:28:21 Chuck Norris is so badass sanity flees from him. 18:29:16 <3 18:29:51 Chuck Norris is the only person who knows how bad jokes about him ar 18:29:53 e 18:30:23 variable, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON RHENIUM 18:30:24 Order Chuck's brand new book, "The Official Chuck Norris Fact Book: 101 of Chuck's Favorite Facts and Stories" 18:30:24 Read more: U.S. public schools: Progressive indoctrination camps http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521#ixzz1GJtbVKvc 18:30:27 -!- cheater00 has joined. 18:30:56 Phantom_Hoover: Re is a chemical. That is all :-) 18:31:48 variable, ACKNOWLEDGE ITS AWESOMENESS 18:31:58 * variable smacks Phantom_Hoover 18:32:42 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:37:45 http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=878UP&x=0&y=0 18:38:05 Serial number A-113. Model "CARL FREDRECKSENS". Experimental balloon-type aircraft. 18:44:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:44:27 Of course, the picture is much more interesting than that information. 18:45:54 tswett: I like the part where you didn't show us a picture. 18:45:54 http://i.imgur.com/tC1aZ.jpg 18:45:57 Damn. 18:46:07 I agree. Damn. 18:46:12 oh god 18:46:15 is that real. 18:46:18 :D 18:46:32 It would be kind of silly if it weren't real. 18:46:32 hmmbut, i thought some totally sciency people concluded you'd need like, so many balloons :| 18:46:35 how can i believe this picture. 18:46:45 "Hey, we made an imaginary thing based on an imaginary thing. Isn't that awesome?" 18:46:50 CLEARLY 18:46:51 I suppose the house is really light or something. 18:47:04 -!- pumpkin has joined. 18:47:41 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:47:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:47:58 Besides, these balloons are big. 18:48:42 That's what... she... said? 18:48:46 In response to seeing that picture. 18:55:04 cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one) <-- Control.Arrow.>>> 18:55:20 oerjan: yeah, if you're an elitist academician 18:55:46 tswett, it's wantonly wasteful of a scarce resource. 18:55:57 You misspelled "awesome". 18:56:17 elliott, HELIUM SHORTAGE IS A REAL PROBLEM 18:56:26 Phantom_Hoover: true. 18:57:01 Fecking US government. 18:57:07 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 18:57:07 (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h)) 18:57:22 Of course. 18:57:29 @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 18:57:29 (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h)) 18:57:46 @type flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip 18:57:57 Oh god. 18:58:01 thread killed 18:58:06 XD 18:58:08 @unpl flip 18:58:08 (\ a b c -> a c b) 18:58:11 @unpl flip flip 18:58:11 (\ b c f -> c f b) 18:58:21 flip^(3+n) === flip^n 18:58:22 @unpl flip flip flip 18:58:22 (\ c f -> c f (\ g h i -> g i h)) 18:58:24 trivial to see 18:58:47 @unpl flip flip flip flip 18:58:47 (\ f l -> f l (\ g h i -> g i h)) 18:58:56 It looks like flip flip flip = flip flip flip flip. 18:58:59 flip flip flip flip === (flip flip) flip flip === flip flip flip 18:59:05 flip^(3+n) === flip^n. 18:59:22 flip flip flip X === (flip flip) flip X === flip X flip. 18:59:24 if X == flip... 18:59:28 Indeed. 18:59:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:02 But flip^(3+n) === flip^n means that this thing has period 3. It doesn't; it has period 1 starting at 3. 19:00:11 uH, NO. 19:00:13 *Uh, no. 19:00:15 That would be flip^3n. 19:00:28 4 == 3+1. 19:00:33 Ergo flip^4 == flip^3. 19:00:48 You may now commit seppuku. 19:00:53 Let n = 1 in "flip^(3+n) === flip^n". Tell me what you get. 19:00:54 -!- Deewiant has joined. 19:01:17 Err. 19:01:23 Did I say === flip^n? 19:01:28 I meant === flip^3, of course. 19:01:34 Whew. 19:01:53 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/. 19:01:58 tswett: Alternateively: NOPE IT'S RIGHT CLEARLY YOU'RE RETARDED 19:02:10 You're right about one thing. 19:02:23 At least one thing, I mean. 19:02:38 Out of all the things you've ever said. 19:02:44 optbot! 19:02:44 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | but you're only supposed to pass things in the char range or EOF as arguments to it. 19:02:49 Gregor: Excuse me, optbot has returned. 19:02:49 elliott: [1 % 2,1 % 8,0 % 1,(-1) % 192,0 % 1,1 % 2880,0 % 1,(-17) % 645120,0 % 1,31 % 14515200,0 % 1,(-691) % 3832012800,0 % 1,5461 % 5115781120,0 % 1,(-929569) % 64134053888,0 % 1,(-3202291) % 3593732096,0 % 1,221930581 % 16817061888,0 % 1,(-4722116521) % 2090860544,0 % 1,968383680827 % 12415139840,0 % 1,(-14717667114151) % 7415529472,0 % 1,2093660879252671 % 11005853696,0 % 1,86125672563201181 % 5637144576,0 % 1] 19:02:56 Please follow Optbot Topic Policy, i.e. HE OWNZ UR SHIT 19:03:05 (Note: POLICY NOT ACTUALLY A POLICY) 19:03:09 optbot! 19:03:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | doesn't work.. 19:03:11 YES 19:03:13 Best topic. 19:03:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +t. 19:03:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t. 19:03:21 LAWL 19:03:25 :( 19:03:36 My @ gives me no real power :( 19:03:42 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/. 19:03:55 Who opped Gregor? 19:04:15 I did. 19:04:17 With magic. 19:04:18 And ponies. 19:05:02 Gregor: ö käÿ 19:06:13 you know oerjan, I'm fairly sure you can add ops to chanserv >:D 19:06:14 like say 19:06:15 me 19:06:17 or 19:06:18 me 19:06:31 yes, i'm pretty sure i can do that 19:07:12 yeah. 19:07:14 so you should do that now. 19:07:25 i'm not quite so sure of that. 19:07:37 Gregor: op me 19:07:52 You could add the relevant access to, say, some long-lasting, relatively-mild-mannered user with a capitalized nick. 19:08:12 yes i could also do that. 19:08:18 You shouldn't do that. 19:08:22 You should give it to oklopol 19:08:24 And lambdabot. 19:08:34 You could also add the access to fungot, our most important member. 19:08:34 pikhq_: that's not too difficult to implement than malloc. 19:08:37 YES 19:08:39 You see? 19:08:48 pikhq_, do you agree that rhenium is the best? 19:08:49 oerjan: Wait, give it to Deewiant. or ais523. Nobody could ever possibly object to them ever. 19:08:58 Phantom_Hoover: For which purposes? 19:09:11 pikhq_, jewellery. 19:09:51 I object to Deewiant. He's a deewiant. 19:09:54 Err, deviant. 19:09:55 Whatever. 19:10:07 I think he might be Russian too. 19:10:16 no, that's lament. 19:10:27 you may notice lament is already an op. 19:10:38 I was making a bad joke w.r.t. v->w :P 19:10:44 Gregor: I'm guessing it wouldn't be very hilarious if you opped me. How can I convince you that opping me is what you want? 19:10:45 he's in Finland. same thing 19:11:04 Ah, tswett approach to the AI Box problem: "Hey human, how can I convince you to let me out of the box?" 19:11:14 Gregor: i am not aware that russian uses overly much w's... 19:11:16 "You can't." "Damn." 19:11:18 Phantom_Hoover: Iridum. Covered in precious gemstones. 19:11:25 pikhq_: Garish! 19:11:28 pikhq_, TOO MAINSTREAM 19:11:28 (avoid the diamond; those suckers have no real value) 19:11:34 `quote 334 19:11:36 elliott: it's a good approach to some things that are not the AI Box problem. 19:11:42 tswett: But not getting opped :P 19:11:51 I don't know. Gregor hasn't spoken yet. 19:11:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 19:11:58 Maybe he's planning to op me but hasn't gotten around to it. 19:12:15 HackEgo, Y U NO WORK 19:13:55 WHY IS THIS SUCH A LAME. 19:14:10 Stupid no-good nasm. 19:14:43 pikhq_, the ultra-relevant quote in question is 334) Oh god. I've become a metallurgy hipster. Iridium is way too mainstream. 19:15:09 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BitZ fml 19:15:12 For a non-mainstream metal, I suggest... 19:15:19 I was into iridium before the stars started producing it. 19:15:57 I was into hydrogen before atoms. 19:16:07 ...Rutherfordium. 19:16:22 No output. 19:16:30 tswett, radioactives need not apply. 19:17:14 HELIUM 19:17:14 Okay. Lemme see. 19:17:21 Osmium... that's definitely way too mainstream. 19:17:24 ... 19:17:28 But Osmium was Phantom_Hoover's favourite! 19:17:37 Unfortunately, Douchebag Osmium: 19:17:41 LOOKS INCREDIBLY PRETTY 19:17:42 19:17:48 OXIDISES INTO HIGHLY TOXIC GAS 19:17:54 Samarium. 19:18:07 How's about some californium? 19:18:09 That's multiple letters away from semen! 19:18:15 (Californium obviously) 19:18:19 If you want a non-mainstream metal, go with samarium. 19:18:28 Go with [insert metal band here] 19:18:50 * pikhq_ can't name any non-mainstream metal bands, so. 19:19:02 pikhq_: NIRVANA 19:19:04 * elliott swats himself 19:19:11 tswett, rhenium was last to be discovered! 19:19:13 I mean, sure I could *say*, say, Black Sabbath, but that's pretty mainstream. 19:19:17 Nope. Samarium. 19:19:20 Can't get more mainstream than that. 19:19:21 * pikhq_ swats elliott 19:19:24 *non-mainstream 19:19:43 optbot: samarium! 19:19:43 tswett: for some the length mod 3 might be important ;) 19:19:45 optbot: Talk to tswett. He's lonely. 19:19:45 elliott: Universe hates you? 19:19:46 ...wow. 19:19:49 Nice timing. 19:19:49 Alt rock ≠ metal, you jerk. :P 19:20:04 pikhq_: And Nirvana =/=/==/=/=/ alt rock! 19:20:06 CIRCLE OF LIFE 19:20:31 optbot: say something coincidentally relevant to the situation, so I can feel awesome! 19:20:31 tswett: Seems to work. 19:20:41 It works to make you feel awesome. 19:20:48 Anyway, it's not coincidence, it's strong AI. 19:21:08 elliott: You crazy Brits. 19:21:11 I think a quote from the movie Rango is appropriate here. 19:21:15 "Damn." --Rattlesnake Jake, "Rango" 19:21:35 I think a quote from the movie [insert movie here] is appropriate here. 19:21:43 "Yes." --[character], "[movie]" 19:21:59 Hey, that's also a Rango quote. 19:22:05 OMG! 19:22:09 "Yes." --Rango, "Rango" 19:22:10 Here's another. 19:22:11 "the" 19:22:27 I think Rango also said that. 19:22:41 Though he might have said "them" instead. 19:22:48 Maybe he didn't and you just didn't notice. 19:22:51 (As part of a line, of course.) 19:22:53 Oh, he did say "the" in some other instance. 19:23:04 tswett: MAYBE HE NEVER USED THE WORD "E" THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MOVIE 19:23:09 Despite saying "Yes". 19:23:11 ... 19:23:13 He said, "I'm the law." Or maybe, "I am the law." 19:23:13 Letter "e". 19:23:18 Ellipses also help. 19:23:25 They help what? 19:23:35 "I [...] love [...] s [...] e [...] x [...] with [...] men." -- Rango, "Rango" 19:23:53 I don't know if he said "love" or any word containing "x". 19:24:07 He probably said "with", but I don't know about "men". 19:24:18 "[...] lay with men as you would lay with woman [...]" — God. 19:24:19 Note: I haven't watched the movie, and don't intend to :P 19:24:24 pikhq_: Perfect :P 19:25:02 "Stone [...] women." --God 19:25:05 *women[...]. 19:25:21 Oh, he definitely said "with". The phrase "with just one bullet" was said many times by multiple characters. 19:25:38 elliott: I'm pretty sure you can just go with "Stone women [...]". 19:25:45 1/win 2 19:25:51 "[...]get [...] stone[...]d." --God 19:26:02 As you are suppose to stone women who exhibit infidelity. 19:26:18 Yah, but is it in that order i nthe Bible :P 19:26:29 In at least one translation. 19:26:44 In the Bible, it's more like "[...] nmw ntS". 19:26:52 Except the words are Hebrew. 19:26:58 *in the 19:27:07 tswett: What did this channel ever do without your stunning intellect? :-P 19:27:10 tswett: Thy win is evident. 19:27:23 elliott: you'd probably all be dead. 19:27:25 Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom. 19:27:31 It means "I". 19:27:36 Actually, no. You'd probably all be alive if it weren't for me. 19:27:37 *is also 19:27:46 tswett: Darn, I hate being dead. 19:27:48 Don't be ridiculous. "ntS" doesn't have any vowels. 19:27:49 Which I'm not. 19:28:01 Um, the joke is that Welsh has no vowels :P 19:28:07 I expect you realise this. 19:28:18 Sadly, it actually does. 19:28:23 Vowels such as "w" and "y". 19:28:33 My joke is that I'm recognizing your joke and choosing to ignore it. 19:28:53 You can tell that I got the joke by the fact that I picked "ntS", which indeed has no vowels, rather than "nmw", which does have a vowel. :P 19:29:05 Let's stone tswett. 19:29:53 Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom. <-- WHY ISN'T NDRYLLIOG HERE TO CONFIRM... 19:30:00 You cannot effectively stone me! I am this big! 19:30:02 He's French. 19:30:03 YES, BECAUSE HE'S WELSH 19:30:08 * tswett holds up his hands, a certain distance apart. 19:30:10 tswett: We have SO MUCH CANNABIS. 19:30:18 (Bloody French, never came through for us.) 19:30:28 Phantom_Hoover: Smelly. Unwashed. 19:30:29 Rude. 19:30:30 tswett: by that do you mean you're too small for us to hit you, or to big for the stones to have any effect? 19:30:32 Wine-drinking artfags! 19:30:36 *too 19:30:39 oerjan: the latter. 19:30:44 ah. 19:30:50 elliott, yeah, but they hate the English too so I need to like them to count as Scottish. 19:30:53 * oerjan casually picks up a nearby mountain. 19:30:56 At least the Normans had the common decency to *invade*, rather than just be wine-drinking artfags mocking us! :P 19:31:19 oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it? 19:31:24 pikhq_: Please refrain from usage of "us", Americunt. 19:31:27 WE DISOWNED YOU 19:31:35 elliott: I'm of British descent, now shaddup. 19:31:41 pikhq_: SO'S EVERY FUCKING AMERICAN X-D 19:31:51 elliott: Not really. 19:31:53 GREGOR is of British descent. 19:31:55 elliott: German is the most common ancestry. 19:31:56 * pumpkin was born in england 19:31:58 Yet shows no signs of ``humour''. 19:32:00 * pumpkin is awesome 19:32:11 By far. 19:32:11 (He unfortunately shows irritating symptoms of ``humor'' on a regular basis.) 19:32:15 I have no idea what sort of descent I'm of. It must be mostly European, since I seem to be white. 19:32:23 no clearly it's african. 19:32:27 per logic. 19:32:40 pikhq_, WHAT KIND OF BRITISH DESCENT 19:32:40 tswett: Definitely South African. 19:32:45 THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT 19:32:46 (Bloody French, never came through for us.) <-- i vaguely recall reading recently they _did_ try to help some scottish faction against the english at one time... 19:32:53 Phantom_Hoover: England. 19:32:54 There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation. 19:33:05 oerjan, there's something called the "Auld Alliance" but I never actually found out what it entailed. 19:33:09 Phantom_Hoover: Worcestershire, to be specific. 19:33:18 pikhq_ makes sauce. 19:33:35 `addquote There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation. 19:33:38 Phantom_Hoover: Worcester, to be even more specific. 19:33:40 335) There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation. 19:33:42 What is it with crazy people and being quotable. 19:33:55 pikhq_: your ancestors are from Worcester? That would explain a lot. 19:34:00 A LOT 19:34:02 oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it? <-- as i'm using the famed munchhausen method, i am above it. 19:34:08 But there were all kinds of weird olde-European alliancy things, like Queen Mary marrying the dauphin. 19:34:09 Ah. 19:34:09 tswett: Yes, hence the last name of "Worcester". 19:34:32 * tswett climbs on top of the mountain and shoots oerjan. 19:35:00 Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29 19:35:04 Gregor: hg fail 19:35:05 Gee, I sure hope there are no hawks up here. That would make me really regret this piece of gratuitous exposition. 19:36:14 What is it with crazy people and being quotable. <-- now is _that_ correlation or causation? 19:36:34 oerjan: it's tswettation. 19:36:37 a cross between neithe 19:36:39 *neither 19:37:03 tswett: hawks? 19:37:27 oerjan: yes, hawks. They're the only thing mentioned in the movie that I'm afraid of. 19:37:38 which movie. 19:37:41 Rango. 19:37:45 ah. 19:37:53 oerjan: hmm for arrow purposes (a,b) behaves like (\x -> if x then b else a), right? 19:37:55 Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character. 19:37:56 as in, isomorphihic. 19:37:58 oh wait. 19:37:59 that isn't right. 19:38:06 can't have polymorphic return. 19:38:13 Bool -> Either a b, then. except that's not right either. 19:38:28 (a,b) acts like how you do tuples in LC, then :-P 19:38:28 tswett: in fact you were lucky, when you shot me i briefly lost my grip and the mountain fell and crushed some hawks. 19:38:36 also a small city, but never mind. 19:38:48 Oh, neat. 19:39:05 elliott: wat 19:39:22 oerjan: (a,b) acts like (\x. x a b) in the LC for Arrow instance purposes, right? 19:39:37 just say yes. 19:39:47 tswett: http://goo.gl/IYgRQ 19:40:10 * tswett shoots at his computer screen. 19:40:18 Damn, you fooled me. 19:40:33 elliott: oh you want a (,) instance? i don't think you can do that as both type arguments are covariant... 19:40:47 oerjan: err ((,) t) is an arrow. 19:40:48 no? 19:40:51 :t (***) 19:40:52 forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c b' c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c') 19:40:59 :t (&&&) 19:41:00 forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c') 19:41:02 elliott: arrows take _two_ type arguments 19:41:08 oerjan: err right 19:41:09 (,) is an arrow. 19:41:10 > (1,2) (&&&) (3,4) 19:41:10 Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t' 19:41:10 against inferred type ... 19:41:12 huh. 19:41:16 i swore it was :) 19:41:22 @src Arrow 19:41:22 class Arrow a where 19:41:22 arr, pure :: (b -> c) -> a b c 19:41:22 (>>>) :: a b c -> a c d -> a b d 19:41:29 elliott: how in the world would you implement arr 19:41:31 well, right, you can't do arr and pure :D 19:41:34 *arr/pure 19:41:39 oerjan: i just kinda assumed ;( 19:41:49 because of all the *** and &&&s involving tuples :D 19:41:52 elliott: it's essentially a monad, Writer 19:42:01 (assuming t Monoid) 19:42:12 oerjan: arr f = (x, f x) where x = undefined 19:42:14 TADA 19:42:15 We need to convince Kevin Bacon to do a movie with a bunch of mathematicians as extras. 19:42:26 * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2! 19:42:30 pikhq_: A film about Paul Erd\Hos, too. 19:42:33 Using stock footage. 19:42:38 JOIN THIS FILM, INCREASE YOUR NUMBERS 19:42:45 pikhq_, you aren't a mathematician! 19:42:50 elliott: the tuples are in _addition_ to the arrow type. also i'm pretty sure you're supposed to have arr id >>> x = x and such things 19:42:53 * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2! 19:42:56 someone 19:43:18 oerjan: WELL OK MR SMARTY FANCY PANTS 19:43:18 elliott: Actually, because of *just that* happening, Erdős has an Erdős-Bacon number of 3. 19:43:27 pikhq_: I know. 19:43:30 pikhq_: I'm trying to COMBINE the concepts. 19:43:45 omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1. 19:43:47 If only Kevin Bacon were in it. 19:43:55 just make a KEvin Bacon film with stock footage of Erd\Hos. 19:43:57 (it's \H right?) 19:43:59 *Kevin 19:44:04 Is it Er\Hdos or Erd\Hos? 19:44:12 It's Erdős. 19:44:16 Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character. <-- synchronicity, duh 19:44:16 elliott, COMPOSE 19:44:23 Actually, can't get Kevin Bacon to have a Bacon number of 1; Erdős is dead. 19:44:30 tswett: Err, latter :P 19:44:37 pikhq_: ... 19:44:37 Is it Erdös or Erdõs? :P 19:44:41 Erd\Hos. 19:44:45 number. 19:44:46 that is. 19:44:48 not a Bacon number. 19:45:00 pikhq_: Anyway, appearing in a film with stock footage of Erd\Hos has been counted for your Erd\Hos number. 19:45:03 tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian. 19:45:07 So Bacon could easily get an Erd\Hos number of 1. 19:45:13 And Erd\Hos a Bacon number of 1. 19:45:18 Giving them both an Erd\Hos-Bacon number of 1. 19:46:15 elliott, but the Erd\Hos number is for papers, not films. 19:46:30 It's for collaborations. 19:46:36 Playing ping-pong with him should count! 19:46:44 Or maybe only if you're doing it doubles, and he's on your side. 19:46:49 omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1. <-- i think you're missing the "joint paper" part... 19:47:05 oerjan: the "films count" was used by someone fairly prominent or at least interesting. iirc. 19:47:34 oklopol: hey 19:47:36 you can uh.. 19:47:40 come twice 19:47:41 if you'd like 19:47:59 elliott: someone desperate to get low erdős-bacon numbers, obviously 19:48:01 "It seems that older historic figures such as Leonhard Euler (born 1707) do not have finite Erdős numbers." --Wikipedia 19:48:04 augur: HOW FUNNY I MADE THAT JOKE TOO 19:48:11 oerjan: it wasn't very low even counting that :D 19:48:21 oerjan: it was tongue in cheek, but then so are Erd\Hos numbers. 19:48:22 elliott: yes that may be 19:48:35 elliott: but you werent suggesting he actually cum on your face or other body parts 19:48:38 or in them 19:48:39 soooo.. 19:48:45 augur: i said women though, so probably you automatically ignored the line 19:48:46 HAHA 19:48:47 moving on 19:48:54 tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian. <-- mind you hungarian does have ö as well, long vs. short vowel. 19:49:33 oerjan: Huh. 19:49:50 Still, it explains ő being valid. 19:49:56 yeah. 19:50:14 19:43:32 one thing that you wouldn't know: i have made two esoteric programming languages and i'm actually 15. 19:50:15 WOW 19:50:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:50:30 elliott, I've seen that name before. 19:50:33 basically hungarian puts ´ on any vowel to make it long, if there are dots already they get replaced with ´'s. 19:50:35 = GreaseMonkey 19:50:38 hi ais523 19:51:23 applies to i, ö, ü 20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:01:09 hi elliott 20:02:00 !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD 20:03:14 somehow I've got myself into a veritable OS dev rut. 20:03:25 (anywhere I can't printf debug counts as a rut) 20:03:26 i heard the ipad2 waiting line is real tough today 20:03:52 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:04:12 !c printf("%x\n", '/'); 20:04:27 ais523: grr 20:04:27 oerjan: Hungarian also seems to use the letter y as an accent (after the letter, rather than on top of it which would be bizarre) 20:04:31 you made egobot go the slow! 20:04:35 :D y on top of the letter 20:04:37 it hasn't even started processing slowpoke yet 20:04:45 also, slowpoke, despite its name, runs pretty quickly 20:04:47 okind of like e or u on top of the letter instead of diaeresis 20:04:48 much faster than waterfall3 20:04:49 i forget which it was 20:04:50 I think u 20:04:52 (historically) 20:04:52 ais523: that's for consonants, it uses lots of combined letters 20:04:54 *kind 20:05:07 oerjan: ly, gy, ny, sz 20:05:10 gy and ty, but also sz, cs ... 20:05:22 ty? are you sure? 20:05:28 I don't remember seeing any of those when I actually went to Hungary 20:05:47 hm maybe i'm misremembering 20:05:49 THE KEY TO BECOMING AN EXPERT 20:06:11 "The difference between and is that there is no . 20:06:11 Ever. 20:06:11 Using causes all Web sites people see after yours to blink. Forever." 20:07:06 confusingly sz is what most other countries would consider s, while s is similar to english sh. 20:07:25 elliott: is that a zzo38 quote? 20:07:30 oerjan: indeed 20:07:32 (remember that when pronouncing erdős) 20:07:36 ais523: err, no, that would be a terrible zzo38 quote 20:07:39 it's ``humour'' 20:07:46 for English loanwords, they actually transliterate s into sz 20:07:52 so you see shops marked "szupermarket" 20:08:47 szuzpzezrzmzazrzkzeztz 20:08:53 oh and zs 20:09:04 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:09:18 ais523: Well done 20:09:21 -!- EgoBot has joined. 20:09:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:09:34 oh come on 20:09:43 it was halfway through running my relatively simple program, too 20:09:48 !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD 20:09:49 ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem 20:09:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 20:09:51 CHAINLANCE: EXCELLENT NON-BUGGY WIN 20:10:01 it crashed EgoBot, i can be as sarcastic as i like now 20:11:08 elliott: is its debug output as pretty as juiced? 20:11:11 *juiced's? 20:11:13 it's ``humour'' <-- zzo38 sometimes says things which one might detect as humor. not necessarily what most people would consider humor, but humor nonetheless. and i think i've chuckled at some time. 20:11:22 ais523: the most prettiest. well it could be. 20:11:27 oerjan: yes but it's unintentional :) 20:11:32 Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29 Gregor: hg fail // hg fail how? 20:11:37 and wouldn't be punctuated in such a way as to draw attention to the humour 20:11:38 also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere 20:11:39 which the above does 20:11:42 Gregor: your hg repo fail 20:11:47 it created an empty 11.02.29 file 20:11:48 or did clog :) 20:11:49 elliott: That's more like it :P 20:11:50 elliott: no i mean he says things that are obviously _meant_ to be humor. 20:11:55 ais523: also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere 20:11:56 wait what 20:11:56 Probably my repo. 20:12:05 umm, rather than keeping them secret 20:12:09 it's rare, but i'm sure i've seen it. 20:12:14 oerjan: I have a strong feeling those are just bit-for-bit copies, or at least minor mutations 20:12:20 people who want to try to run BF Joust programs locally atm have no option but to write their own interp 20:12:24 (of other ...humour) 20:12:33 ais523: err, chainlance is open source 20:12:35 well 20:12:37 i dunno if it has an actual license 20:12:47 I mean, I don't have a copy, nor any links to it 20:12:51 unfortunately it sucks 20:12:55 ais523: that's your problem? 20:12:57 you didn't exactly ask 20:12:59 or logread 20:13:01 I did ask 20:13:05 well, nobody heard 20:13:09 could be 20:13:11 http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy, why would you :) 20:13:18 for SCIENCE! 20:13:37 Perhaps I'll write a LANCELANCE, that compiles them to ANSI PORTABLE C. 20:13:52 elliott: that's an HTML page 20:13:58 ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem <-- the trap here is you need to know whether the name is hungarian or polish, because polish uses s/sz in the exact opposite way 20:14:00 I just tried to wget it... 20:14:22 * oerjan didn't actually know riesz was hungarian 20:14:26 ais523: I'm not your personal web browser; you get to find the appropriate download link yourself. 20:14:32 fair enough 20:14:40 it's just that the link was misleading 20:14:49 gitweb is hardly uncommon. 20:14:56 In this case it seems that there's no convenient tarball link. 20:15:00 there is 20:15:01 I suspect git://git.zem.fi/chainlance may be right. 20:15:03 under "snapshot" 20:15:10 Oh, indeed. 20:15:22 But having a checkout of the git repository is more useful, as you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently. 20:15:23 Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0 20:15:23 Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0 20:15:34 yikes 20:15:47 22 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 78.0 | 36.4 | 22 | ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust 20:15:50 wow that's a good score 20:15:51 Gregor: YOU'RE NOT AT THE TOP, BAN AIS523 20:15:52 Heh, it does better against allegro than any of my others 20:16:09 Holy hell 20:16:12 !bfjoust elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1 < 20:16:16 Score for elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0 20:16:19 ais523: Well, waterfall3 had the same wins, just less score :-P 20:16:23 TIME TO WRITE ANTISLOWPOKE 20:16:24 indeed 20:16:26 The all-+ row isn't new 20:16:29 It'll get like 60 points just from beating it. 20:16:30 89? We're romped. 20:16:39 Gregor: Uhh, 78. 20:16:52 78 is still rather insane, given that allegro has 55 20:17:05 btw, FFSPG /almost/ beats it 20:17:10 ais523: prepare for death by egojsout!!!!! 20:17:12 it generally loses by around 20 clock cycles 20:18:08 Gregor: [>] is bugged in egojsout 20:18:13 oh, wait, no 20:18:45 elliott: I doubt it, triplock3 uses and runs correctly there 20:18:48 *uses it 20:18:57 and waterfall3 embeds many copies of triplock3, and runs them sometimes 20:19:18 hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%? 20:19:23 It figures my computer would go bonkers right after I tpyo 78 as 89 X_X 20:19:26 hmm, actually that's wrong 20:19:28 you can't, I don't think 20:20:15 * oerjan is wondering if the ie in riesz should actually be pronounced as two vowels or not 20:20:38 it could be germanized, so just one 20:21:23 oerjan: yeah 20:21:34 "He had an uncommon method of giving lectures: he entered the lecture hall with an assistant and a docent. The docent then began reading the proper passages from Riesz's handbook and the assistant inscribed the appropriate equations on the blackboard—while Riesz himself stood aside, nodding occasionally." 20:21:39 oerjan: Riesz is not a polish name tho :p 20:21:56 btw 20:22:04 does this show up unstyled for y'all? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz-Fischer_theorem 20:22:11 cheater00: yeah it looks like it could be either german or hungarian to me 20:22:23 german never has sz 20:22:30 it would be Rieß 20:22:43 cheater00: looks fine to me 20:22:53 trust the guy living in germany 20:23:04 cheater00: i think sz is archaic german spelling, so might still hang on in names? 20:23:09 nope 20:23:32 if it's in a name then it's a foreign name. 20:23:44 germans are very strict about their spelling 20:23:52 even names get strict spelling updates 20:24:08 so what about that link oerjan :p 20:25:10 hmm 20:25:16 ais523: can you get [-[--[---[---[---? 20:25:21 with [-] in the middle 20:25:47 never mind 20:26:01 ais523: gah, antislowpoke is hard; anti space_elevator was easy :) 20:26:12 cheater00: i said it was just fine. i think styles are separate files so might fail to load separately, try reloading. 20:26:24 ah, weird 20:26:37 has happened to me before 20:26:38 sorry, i thought you said Riesz looks fine to you 20:26:55 yeah the wird thing is that the style for all other pages in wikipedia works 20:26:57 but for this one, no 20:27:00 cheater00: well that is also true 20:27:15 and i have reloaded 20:27:17 multiple times 20:27:25 cheater00: shift-reload? 20:27:51 o no, shift worked 20:27:58 yea, stupid firefox 20:28:50 ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D 20:29:06 < < < < < = = = = = < = = = = < = = = = = 20:29:06 < < < < < > > > < < < < < < < < < < < < < 20:29:13 hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%? <-- all uses of ()% expand to ()*...()* if you ignore [] matching 20:29:31 oerjan: right 20:29:36 i meant with nesting and stuff 20:29:43 " unfortunately it sucks" " http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy [..]" " [...] you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently." ← are you trying to participate in some sort of "bitterest man on earth" competition here? 20:30:15 fizzie: YES 20:30:20 fizzie: You crashed EgoBot, you deserve it :-) 20:31:10 germans are very strict about their spelling <-- ok germans, but hungarians etc. might still use archaic spellings for names that are originally german. on the other hand as ais523 said hungarians do replace s by sz in loanwords so it might be that too. 20:31:21 yea 20:31:44 wonder if I can ignore only _quotes_... although replies would be good too and i already wrote that :) 20:31:48 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:31:54 cpressey: REPORT 20:31:55 but then germans replace S with Z in their pronounciation 20:32:13 i meant with nesting and stuff <-- i meant i don't see how to do it with plain ()* either. 20:32:20 oerjan: right 20:32:24 i'm surrounded by... jythonistas. 20:32:35 or, at least, people attending a talk about jython 20:32:36 oerjan: it needs to be like... ((>)*n[>])*(n=100) :-D 20:32:48 there seems to be less -ista here 20:33:03 cpressey: those are javadroids :D 20:33:40 o no, shift worked <-- i believe shift causes it to ignore already cached content in case there's something wrong with it, while without shift doesn't if the page's modified date hasn't changed. 20:33:45 the intersection between the two sets seems rather small 20:35:20 there is like no one here. i was going to attend "extreme network programming in python" but it was really crowded and i forgot that i don't really care about low-level network protocols 20:36:38 and i'm not entirely sure, but without shift might also be less clever about following included content. (this is all just my impression.) 20:38:17 ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D <-- haha 20:38:27 ais523: btw, optbot is back 20:38:27 elliott: i'll try think more about it now 20:38:49 * oerjan thinks that was a zzo38 comment 20:39:15 I'm guessing oklopol 20:39:31 hm could be 20:39:33 it's not zzo38 20:39:34 "i" 20:39:46 oklopol seems plausible, but it could also be any non-native speaker 20:39:57 05.06.07:14:09:02 i'll try think more about it now 20:40:00 like Keymaker. 20:40:04 oklopol often seems quite implausible to me 20:40:22 cpressey: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST 20:40:29 it's all a bug in reality 20:40:32 oh, how come I didn't notice cpressey was here earlier despite him having made lots of comments already? 20:40:48 cpressey: do an impromptu talk on esolangs; start it with announcing that you are "THE... yes, THE ... Chris Pressey". 20:40:51 PlauseError: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST 20:40:53 ais523: he's at PyCon, dying 20:41:14 cpressey: when nobody applauses, throw something angrily and stomp off 20:41:16 *applauds, 20:41:28 elliott: ... 20:41:35 cpressey: come on, that's the best idea ever. 20:41:55 no, not being here is the best idea ever 20:42:01 elliott: an applausible idea 20:42:04 cpressey: second-best, then. 20:42:30 cpressey: but it's the perfect setup for not being there afterward 20:42:40 i could post a card on the board for an "Esolang BoF" and watch no one else show up 20:43:04 Bachelor of Furnaces? 20:43:11 Buddy of Fucking? 20:43:17 Bastion of Ferventry? 20:43:39 Bestiality-only Family 20:43:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing) lame 20:43:51 Bankers of Franchises 20:44:04 Backwards-ogling Fat-ass 20:44:25 Gonna stick with Bestiality-only Family 20:44:32 it's aaaaaaaall lame 20:44:37 hm is feather slightly named after twoducks? 20:44:49 i hope so but doubt it 20:45:09 PiFeathersPerDuck 20:45:15 cpressey: ok, here's a less coherent idea: yell "ATTENTION EVERYBODY, THIS IS NOW AN UNCONFERENCE! That means you have to dance!", and start dancing 20:45:18 punch everyone who does not dance 20:45:31 now to increase my toxication levels to get something even better 20:45:50 ais523: ^ 20:46:02 oerjan: no, it isn't 20:46:04 yeah ais523 better admire my amazing lingotalk. 20:46:06 altohugh it might as well be 20:46:52 there's this fairy tale about the feather that turned into five hens 20:47:04 17:01:19 If you solve the game and make it so that the AI literally cannot lose, it's different. If you win, you suck, if you lose, you're brilliant. 20:47:04 or if you win, you're *really* brilliant 20:48:09 http://hca.gilead.org.il/no_doubt.html 20:48:19 Back 20:48:56 oerjan: how big is your personal library? 20:49:13 It has all the books. 20:49:29 elliott: it contains google 20:49:41 oerjan: THE BIGGEST LIBRARY 20:50:01 although i probably have the andersen fairy tales stored away somewhere physically too 20:50:03 I wonder if there are more pages on Google than there are pages on the internet (discounting infinite page generators, other search engines) 20:50:10 and not counting 0-result googles 20:50:21 but counting every string that return something 20:50:21 *paperally 20:50:28 (and _not_ assuming that google has crawled every single page) 20:50:50 elliott, almost certainly. 20:51:15 Phantom_Hoover: well right, because you have at least the number of words in the page that return that page 20:51:18 so it blows up quite quickly :) 20:51:29 also, google indexes its own results pages 20:51:33 The Googles: bigger than the internets. 20:51:37 cpressey: well, not counting that. but does it really? 20:52:01 "Error 404 (Not Found)!!1" --title of Google's (new) 404 page 20:52:20 slowpoke's behavior looks stunningly similar to FFSPG :P 20:52:40 as ais523 said, FFSPG almost wins 20:52:47 well, is almost equal 20:52:53 loses by about 20 cycles IIRC 20:52:53 elliott: no. i am lying freely 20:52:57 Yeah, FFSPG is really close. 20:53:09 Gregor: Fix it, even if it makes it slightly worse on other programs, you'll get a shitload of points for it :P 20:53:13 elliott: NEEDS MOAR ELEVEN 20:53:17 elliott: 'struth. 20:53:23 WEEKEND TIME 20:53:32 Gregor: Although not in the fixed-point system I think. 20:53:33 I could make it win by a lot rather than a little at the cost of performance against some other programs 20:53:47 I didn't actually notice how close it was until after the program was already finished 20:55:02 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=661 20:55:04 XD 20:56:19 :-D 20:56:29 beautifully subtle 20:56:49 Paul Simon looks so funny. 20:57:09 Gregor: slowpoke was just designed around "let me make a deep-poke program", but it turned out quite similar 20:57:24 however, its decoy setup is rather different from FFSPG, it's a fundamentally different strategy there 20:57:27 and its attack is different too 20:57:37 Furry furry deep poking girls. 20:57:41 Or is that where the SP name comes from. 20:57:48 it is, I think 20:58:29 was the original poke deep? 20:58:37 no 20:58:44 howso? 20:58:51 it stops as soon as it sees a nonzero cell 20:58:58 ah 20:59:03 how did it work? >:) 20:59:04 whereas FFSPG and slowpoke look for other values near zero too 20:59:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 20:59:19 the idea of poke was to find the opponent's first decoy and set up nine squares from it 20:59:26 so as to be able to make more decoys, and attack sooner 20:59:47 slowpoke uses the poke to know where to start attacking, but it has different secondary purposes 21:00:00 for one, it tries to trip enemy tripwires 21:00:12 causing them to screw up their synchronization by starting too early 21:00:24 Deewiant: Quick, make [insert type of train here]. 21:00:26 and causing programs to think slowpoke is fast-rush and use an inappropriate response to it 21:00:48 Or use allegro as a transition to music names :P 21:01:59 wow, sometimes you wonder how many people respobsible for POSIX get shot by disgruntled programmers 362'881 why are you asking? 21:02:18 ^ this explains why POSIX sucks, it was designed by a /very large/ committee 21:02:35 rest in peace POSIX committee members. 21:02:38 actually, don't. 21:03:09 ais523: it was mostly defined by the ridonkulously huge committee of "every unix system vendor and hackers thereof" 21:03:21 :) 21:03:24 !bfjoust train (>)*8(>[-][-])*21 21:03:30 Score for Deewiant_train: 16.6 21:03:36 elliott: Happy? 21:03:44 Deewiant: Does it beat slowpoke? 21:03:54 * Sgeo wonders what a war between the Integrated Data Sentient Entity and an aware Haruhi would be like. 21:03:55 Some of the time 21:04:01 Of course, that would destroy the premise 21:04:01 only on short tapes? 21:04:03 Deewiant: Insufficient. 21:04:08 ais523: Yes 21:04:17 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how much thought has been put into clockwork computing. 21:04:17 slowpoke can't beat fast rush programs on tapes shorter than 14 or so, unless it's lucky 21:04:29 Phantom_Hoover: Not enough. 21:04:32 i guess this one's next --> http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/137/ 21:04:42 i'll let you know if it's actually interesting :) 21:04:43 cpressey: YESSS 21:04:45 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:04:51 by a reverend no less! 21:04:56 XD 21:04:58 wasn't the Analytical Engine clockwork? 21:05:18 My children, let us consider the theological implications of Guido van Rossum. 21:05:27 Is he the Messiah born again? 21:05:36 I've seen ++variable as a useful trick 21:05:43 elliott: did you notice that I slightly tweaked waterfall3 to beat your copy of it, btw? 21:05:51 ais523: nope :) 21:06:01 ais523: i removed my copy 21:06:03 I couldn't resist 21:06:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:06:05 and no you didn't 21:06:07 (my (remaining) copy) 21:06:08 you gave the wrong name 21:06:08 ais523: I did 21:06:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:06:16 elliott: You didn't specify that, you just wanted a train. 21:06:17 ...thanks for telling me! 21:06:22 Deewiant: I specify it now. 21:06:23 30 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + - + + + + + + - + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 53.4 | 24.6 | 30 | elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust 21:06:24 31 | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | 0.0 | -47.0 | 31 | elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust 21:06:32 !bfjoust _ais523_waterfall3_1 < 21:06:43 lesson: don't ever have a nick X_Y if someone has the nick X. 21:06:46 Score for elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0 21:06:47 Where's the interpreter that's currently used on the hill 21:06:56 Deewiant: http://git.zem.fi/home-of-bugs/ 21:07:02 (Or "chainlance", you decide.) 21:07:27 anyway, I can't think of any way to tweak waterfall3 to beat slowpoke 21:07:55 ais523: If I figure out how to do an antislowpoke, maybe it'll revive the hill strategy set a bit :) 21:07:55 other than detecting it (not too hard) and switching to a strategy designed specifically to beat it 21:08:02 interior_crocodile_alligator was surprisingly interesting. 21:08:17 elliott: it was, it actually inspired me to invent the triplock 21:08:25 well, I didn't invent it, Gregor did 21:08:28 mostly it's because anti- programs don't really do anything logical 21:08:30 but it inspired me to remember it existed 21:08:34 which tends to confuse anything that does any thinking 21:08:57 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck&curid=1138&diff=21473&oldid=21035 SOME KINDLY RUSSIAN PLEASE RESPOND 21:09:00 well, I think timing-based defence (defend9, etc) is more or less dead nowadays 21:09:46 elliott: {chain,crank,gear}lance? 21:10:18 Deewiant: It's the one that doesn't do any statistics output. 21:10:43 elliott: what does defend8mwahahaha or whatever it's called do? 21:10:44 "Carmack: Direct3D is now better than OpenGL" What joy. 21:10:54 I tended to defeat it by accident too much, and never really looked into it 21:10:59 ais523: I have nooooooo idea 21:11:08 ais523: I probably just tweaked it randomly 21:11:12 scores were nondeterministic back then 21:11:15 (note: slowpoke wasn't tweaked to defeat anything particular, apart from one of the trains, and that was just a bugfix) 21:11:33 (although I think I continued by tweaking it to beat one of the programs it was already beating more convincingly) 21:11:42 does anyone here know nasm? 21:12:33 gah 21:12:41 0f5c != (0x0f00 | '\\') 21:12:42 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:12:42 in nasm :/ 21:12:44 why?! 21:12:57 hi cpressey-essey 21:14:34 Deewiant: Is nasm part of the everything you're an expert in? 21:14:40 (Yes, I looked at the manual. :p) 21:15:03 I've only really used fasm 21:15:48 Oh, how thoroughly *weird*. 21:15:58 '\' is how you do a backslash. 21:16:04 '\\' is interpreted as a string, and packed into a word. 21:16:10 fizzie: plz2be fix nasm mode to handle '\' :P 21:18:11 !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-])*21 21:18:13 Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 13.1 21:18:24 elliott: Happy? 21:18:57 Deewiant: Does it work? :P 21:19:04 It beats slowpoke 21:19:22 Not always, but more often than not 21:23:59 speaker mentioned brainfuck! 21:24:09 and is in fact introducing it. 21:24:57 (he's getting to implementing it entirely using decorators) 21:25:59 stateful decorators. 21:28:37 :D 21:28:43 cpressey: Ask for Funge-98. 21:28:50 :trollface: 21:29:10 also, a reverend saying fuck?! *gasp* 21:29:33 he didn't say its name, and his slide said "BRAINF*CK" 21:30:15 lame 21:30:17 boycott 21:30:46 Expertise in fasm should carry over to nasm. 21:31:26 What with it being an masm-esque assembler. 21:32:32 elliott: how do you do a single single quote? '''? 21:32:51 ais523: no idea 21:32:55 but probably 21:33:19 Why not, '' is invalid, after all 21:33:27 Deewiant: not necessarily true 21:33:29 'abcd' is a valid word 21:33:45 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:33:46 '' would just mean 0 and thus isn't very necessary 21:43:36 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:47:01 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:47:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:48:41 Gregor, http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/218476/top-story-katamari-hack-will-destroy-your-productivity/ 21:48:52 Sorry, WebSplat is no longer the coolest. 21:49:19 WebSplatamari Damacy 21:49:34 It has multiplayer, the one thing Gregor was too stupid to do! 21:49:35 Phantom_Hoover: ... damn, hard to compete with that. 21:50:04 SO IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITH A LAPTOP 21:50:09 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:51:35 OMFH 21:51:39 *OMFG 21:51:43 MUST PLAY ON HAVENWORKS 21:51:54 NOOOO 21:51:57 IT'S GONE 21:59:56 LOTS OF CAPS IN THIS CHANNEL LATELY 21:59:57 elliott, ais523, Deewiant: nasm does escape characters (with a quite traditional set of escapes) when you put the string in backquotes; so `\\` would do a backslash too. And I think the official way how you do a single quote is "'". (".." and '..' are completely equivalent, except you can put 's inside ""s and vice versa; and `..` works otherwise the same except enables those escapes.) 22:00:19 fizzie: But nasm-mode fails at '\'! :p 22:00:22 And it's YOUUUURS 22:00:33 Phantom_Hoover: havenworks is gone 22:00:33 oh god 22:00:34 Gregor: 22:00:35 Gregor: 22:00:37 put up your mirro 22:00:39 r 22:00:52 ... uh oh 22:00:58 I didn't make a mirror of havenworks :P 22:01:25 Gregor: you said you did! 22:01:27 ooh, can't wait for december 22:01:46 I did? Then I guess I did :P 22:01:51 I just don't remember :P 22:03:15 fizzie: hmm, egostats hasn't updated like you said you were going to 22:03:43 he didn't say would just could iirc 22:03:58 I thought he said he was going to add slowpoke to it while EgoBot was down 22:04:03 in order to get in first, or something 22:04:06 not that it massively matters 22:04:30 ais523: I think I said "perhaps I should", or some such matters. 22:04:35 ah, perhaps 22:04:42 Since it's now officially in, I think I'll just hg pull. 22:06:26 It takes awfully long to draw those per-program plots; I was thinking of just exporting the data as json and doing most of the graphics client-side, at least for per-program (or maybe even per-match, though I guess egojsout is a better platform for that) visualizations. 22:06:44 !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21 22:07:24 Deewiant: heh, that probably does work 22:07:36 There's already a working one up 22:07:56 does it beat it in all configurations? 22:08:00 a real anti- program does 22:08:08 !bfjoust antislowpoke < 22:08:13 I expect so, yes 22:08:13 !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21 22:08:19 or not. 22:08:26 <<<<<<>><<<<<<<<<<><< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<< hmm, that's bizarre 22:08:38 hmm, shoddy 22:08:41 i can do better! 22:08:54 ais523: get on writing a program to make an anti- automatically 22:09:03 I've thought about it 22:09:08 !bfjoust foo bar 22:09:11 but if I did, I'd do it to anti the whole hill and get a perfect score 22:09:23 ais523: null program draws with slowpoke 22:09:25 how fun 22:09:26 pikhq_, how often are you told that you need to vote in response to political whinging? 22:09:29 oh wait no 22:09:48 no it doesn't 22:09:57 strangely, I tried to run allegro vs slowpoke in egojsout 22:10:03 and allegro just sat there doing nothing, not even setting decoys 22:10:08 I assume it was some sort of egojsout glitch 22:10:19 race condition in parsing, perhaps 22:10:25 Meh, !bfjoust isn't working 22:10:37 it was being very weird for me earlier 22:11:48 Well anyway, the current one does <<<<<<>><>><<<<>><<<< <<<<<<<><X<X< 20 22:11:55 So what's a good clear loop these days? :P 22:12:00 [-] 22:12:05 Lame 22:12:10 you can steal the one from slowpoke if you like 22:12:19 ais523: to use in antislowpoke? brilliant 22:12:21 although I think it can actually be marginally improved to do better versus shudder 22:12:35 what is it? I haven't read slowpoke 22:12:42 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust 22:12:42 I do antis purely on traces 22:12:47 Deewiant: that doesn't show me the clear loop 22:12:50 it has multiple loops 22:12:54 Use 'em all 22:12:58 What. 22:13:06 ((+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*21 is the clear loop 22:13:12 -!- iconmaster has joined. 22:13:16 hmm, it'd be interesting to see how that does on its own 22:13:53 anyway, if you want to beat slowpoke, specialcase the tape values +/- 2, 30, 32, 98 22:13:55 !bfjoust (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*22 22:13:58 Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 22:14:06 !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22 22:14:06 EgoBot: you mean *21 at the end 22:14:12 ais523: nope, see start of loop 22:14:14 which i changed 22:14:19 not that it'll matter, that clear loop is incapable of falling off the tape anyway 22:14:22 and yes, it's *8 *21 22:14:26 if you move the > to the start 22:14:30 as you want to move at most 29 times 22:14:56 oh dear, egojoust has got muddled again 22:15:00 ais523: is slowpoke's loop any good if you remove the (+)*9? 22:15:03 you two should both submit your program again 22:15:08 elliott: that's an offset 22:15:09 you two? 22:15:14 oh, Deewiant's 22:15:16 you and Deewiant 22:15:18 !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22 22:15:20 ais523: yes, but a slow offset 22:15:36 well, you can change it to an offset clear or non-offset clear or whatever 22:15:40 but who uses non-offset clears these days? 22:16:04 what I will say is that against slowpoke, the optimal offset size is probably either 2 or 30, or maybe 32 22:16:04 innovators!! 22:16:37 your clear is lame, it does badly on your own decoys 22:17:16 well, that clear is incredibly inflexible 22:17:26 it just beats defence programs trivially 22:17:31 ISTR my interior_crocodile_alligator one being okay 22:17:37 * elliott checks 22:17:40 no existing defence program, or even existing defence /strategy/, will work well against it 22:17:50 I've thought of a couple that might 22:17:56 ais523: what about "assume opponent is using perfect RNG"? 22:18:00 but I fear they'd be rather detail-dependent 22:18:02 hmm, kinda hard to counter :P 22:18:06 elliott: and how do you lock that? 22:18:09 ais523: magic 22:18:24 grr, in_egobot isn't loading 22:18:29 you use your own perfect RNG with your same seed, that might work 22:18:40 -!- variable has joined. 22:18:42 what kind of perfect RNG has a seed? 22:18:56 well. 22:19:01 i suppose it makes sense. kinda. 22:19:01 a reproducible perfect RNG, ofc 22:19:10 being reproducible is generally good in an RNG 22:19:11 if you had a functional definition (which would have to be infinitely-long) 22:19:14 especially if you have an infinite seedspace 22:19:16 *infinitely long 22:19:21 I mean, if you allow arbitrary real numbers as seeds 22:19:31 then everything is just fine 22:19:36 heh 22:19:40 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:19:48 at least it's not egobot 22:20:03 anyway, it might be interesting if BF Joust had a nested loop limit 22:20:12 in order to remove timer clear strategies 22:20:16 that is, if they prove to hurt the gameplay 22:21:20 oh wow 22:21:24 I forgot ICA's clear is insane 22:21:35 [-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]] 22:21:39 and very culnerable to triplocks 22:21:42 *vulnerable 22:21:46 So culnerable. 22:21:49 very very very vulnerable to triplocks 22:21:59 it's also very slow 22:22:01 triplocking works against programs with three or more ] in a row 22:22:06 and that program has, umm, 129? 22:22:48 hmm 22:22:56 (admittedly, they have to be actually executed for the lock to work, and at the right moment) 22:23:04 but they would be in that clear 22:23:11 the triplock is IIRC how waterfall3 beats ICA 22:23:13 http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/lisper-first-look-at-haskell.html 22:23:22 This is the most amusingly pretentious thing ever. 22:23:30 also, ICA is an acronym I use all the time in my day job (idealized concurrent algol) so seeing it in this context is weird 22:23:42 ais523: I hope you don't use CMT too. 22:23:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:24:11 I don't 22:24:23 ais523: Good. 22:24:23 that one's used a lot on certain Internet forums 22:24:28 but not by me, and it's not so much of a jar 22:24:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:24:41 hmm, standing for what 22:25:05 yay for ([+{}])%n 22:25:18 the silliest thing ever 22:25:18 "check my thread" 22:25:28 err, that sounds like a really irritating gthing to say 22:25:38 ais523: It's also Independent Component Analysis, a blind source separation thing our lab's been involved in; somewhat known in the "cocktail party problem" context. 22:25:39 which in trading forums, translates to "you have something I want, look at what I have to see if there's something you want too" 22:25:53 looks like egojsout doesn't handle {} 22:26:05 I'm relatively sure it does 22:26:11 time to troll fizzie a bit 22:26:16 fizzie: voice input is useless 22:26:34 I don't think I'm up to the "no it's not" repetition this time, sowwy. 22:26:38 :( 22:26:58 fizzie: so can your system understand that "sowwy" is sorry 22:27:01 OR IS IT TOO THE DUMBS 22:27:03 fizzie, what do you actually *do*? 22:27:13 Phantom_Hoover: "Stuff." 22:27:14 Phantom_Hoover: Kills kittens for fun and profit. 22:27:15 I know you taught Java a year ago or so. 22:27:26 I lie; he's a professional IRCer. 22:27:29 Phantom_Hoover: err, ais523 was the javateacher 22:27:33 (and still is, I think) 22:27:35 I haven't really taught Java; that's more of an ais523 thing. 22:27:36 indeed 22:27:51 ais523 just kills young CSers' minds for profit! 22:27:53 this month's exercise is effectively "recreate Zork" 22:27:56 (I kid, I kid, they probably deserve it.) 22:28:00 although it's not me that set it 22:28:06 elliott: I'm trying to improve the average skill of Java programmers 22:28:06 There's an ICA poster on the wall in a nearby corridor at work; it's really quite a cheat. 22:28:09 which admittedly isn't difficult 22:28:12 ais523: not exactly the worst exercise in the world 22:28:18 elliott, ISTR him marking Java programs a while ago... 22:28:23 Phantom_Hoover: ais523. 22:28:28 unless you mean the bot tournament 22:28:29 thing 22:28:33 Possibly. 22:28:36 which is the most interesting thing i know nothing about. 22:29:16 Phantom_Hoover: The AI tournament uses Java, right, but that's just my "side job"; it's not even our department's course. 22:29:25 fizzie, so what *do* you do? 22:29:48 IRCs. 22:29:55 He summarises #esoteric every day. 22:30:01 Noise-robustness for speechy stuff, in the most general sense. 22:30:02 Unfortunately they're under an NDA. 22:30:09 fizzie: Yeah, yeah, your cover story. 22:30:16 Nobody would ever REALLY work on something so pointless. 22:30:28 fizzie, is it capable of comprehending the Scottish accent? 22:30:37 NOT EVEN HUMANS ARE CAPABLE OF THAT 22:30:47 Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.2 22:30:47 Score for Deewiant_foo: 4.2 22:30:47 Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0 22:30:47 Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0 22:30:47 Score for elliott_camber: 19.6 22:30:47 Score for elliott_camber: 19.6 22:30:51 Thar we go 22:30:52 Whoa. 22:31:08 !bfjoust foo < 22:31:14 Score for Deewiant_foo: 0.0 22:31:35 !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21 22:31:38 Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.8 22:31:45 pikhq_, why is Suzumiya Haruhi trying to teach me math? 22:31:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:57 fizzie, YOUR SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES 22:32:13 Phantom_Hoover: Our system's been evaluated mostly for Finnish, really. I don't think anyone in our group is doing English dialects. 22:32:39 The acoustics lab guys have some sort of "recognize speech when the speaker's yelling" thing, I think that's curious enough. 22:32:57 That's a start. 22:35:31 Sgeo: Cause that's susùmiyaharuhinoyûutu for you. 22:35:53 I think... there might be an issue with this piece of math though 22:36:04 There seems to be an undeserved assumption 22:36:13 Sgeo, WHAT IS IT 22:37:34 With the house with the Planar Graph Theorem thing, it should be impossible to determine whether x=vertices and z=sides (as assumed by Koizumi) or x=sides and z=vertices 22:38:27 !bfjoust ALMOSTantislowpoke +(>)*8(>[++[-]]+)*21 22:38:45 Oh, what does koisùmi know about math anyways? :P 22:39:15 (or is it koitùmi?) 22:39:15 That beats allegro too, ugh 22:39:21 pikhq_, am I mistaken? 22:39:50 Ah, it's koisùmi. 22:40:00 Damned ambiguities in kana. 22:40:17 Score for Deewiant_ALMOSTantislowpoke: 19.2 22:40:35 (sù and tù are pronounced *exactly the same*, and often get romanised the same.) 22:43:09 elliott: <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< 38, feel free to fix it. 22:43:19 Deewiant: I'm already working on my own. :p 22:43:36 pikhq_, answer me! (please) 22:43:57 Sgeo: I don't know why susùmiyaharuhi is trying to teach you math at all! 22:44:24 pikhq_, so I'm likely to just be correct in this matter? 22:44:36 Perhaps. 22:44:39 Or perhaps not. 22:45:33 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:50:51 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:50:59 Sgeo, is it that an Euler characteristic doesn't change if you swap faces and vertices? 22:52:25 The equation in the book certainly seemed to be saying that 22:52:45 It doesn't. 22:53:27 Proof is left to the reader. 22:56:41 Aha! 22:56:54 I found a video of someone singing "Lemon Tree"! 22:57:04 Now I can sing Stan Kelly-Bootle's version! 22:57:36 -!- jcp has joined. 23:02:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:22:01 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | which is not the same thing as Windows Services for UNIX, based on the Interix subsystem. 23:24:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 23:24:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:28:23 optbot! 23:28:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | your parents should add a filter. 23:28:26 optbot! 23:28:26 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | hm. 23:28:28 optbot! 23:28:28 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | [22:51:47] virsys [n=virsys@or-67-232-64-36.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit IRC: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out). 23:28:30 optbot! 23:28:30 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | │ │ (0x1000000) Alignment value to which kernel should be aligned │ │. 23:28:32 optbot! 23:28:32 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | A bit silly to have to open a Chromium for web browsing when the while thing is Chromium. 23:28:35 optbot! 23:28:35 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | ais523, it is 20" btw. 23:28:36 optbot! 23:28:36 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | well exactly, people read "strcmp foo bar" and think foo==bar. 23:28:38 optbot! 23:28:39 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Oh, if it's a shell/dispatcher thingy, that's not too bad.. 23:28:41 optbot! 23:28:41 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Ibwasnt running much. 23:28:42 optbot! 23:28:43 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Phantom_Hoover, it was like in the lab recently. Some prankster had taken all the female-female-serial-cable-converters and hooked them up into something that was almost a complete circle. 23:28:47 optbot! 23:28:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I wish that web browsers would do justified text rendering, though.... 23:28:49 optbot! 23:28:50 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | If Station V3 actually had a website, it would probably suck me into a dimensional portal or something. 23:28:52 optbot! 23:28:52 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | u. 23:28:53 optbot! 23:28:53 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | any non-variable merely advances the ip. 23:28:55 optbot! 23:28:55 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | dependent on your logic that might _be_ an axiom.. 23:28:56 elliott 23:29:06 Deewiant: Hey, advancing optbot repeatedly is Traditoin. 23:29:07 elliott: oh, and y should tell the program which is the case? 23:29:08 *Tradition. 23:29:09 optbot! 23:29:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Set one awsistor to 1 and a different one to 0 for 1, and visa versa for 0, and send a pulse when something changes?. 23:29:11 Rust uses reference counting for immutable stuff, and GC for mutable stuff 23:29:13 optbot! 23:29:13 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Is good.. 23:29:16 yes! 23:29:18 That makes a twisted kind of sense. 23:33:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:36:22 Oh, the FAQ may be out of date 23:36:33 There's an immutable later, a state layer, and a gc layer 23:38:09 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 23:38:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:40:49 " These 23:40:49 notations are marked using a special form of bracketing, such that a reader unfamiliar 23:40:49 with the extension can still parse the surrounding text by skipping over the bracketed 23:40:49 extension text" 23:40:54 This puts me in a good mood 23:44:54 Tutorial 23:44:56 TODO. 23:48:09 Hmm, prove is a keyword 23:50:36 -!- azaq23 has joined.