< 1298937604 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298937675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorForth hasn't been touched since 2001? < 1298937713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOUSLY THAT'S WHEN IT REACHED PERFECTION < 1298937757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instructions for using colorForth want me to boot into DOS and ... hmm, this should be doable. < 1298937761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, is it worth it? < 1298937872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://ezusb.free.fr/compo/shots/fractal.png This fit into a boot sector. < 1298938024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you could load up DOSemu. < 1298938041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anything wrong with booting Win98 into DOS mode? < 1298938041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You don't need DOS. < 1298938045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=COLOR.COM of=/dev/fd0 < 1298938057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1298938065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought COLOR.COM would write stuff to the fd < 1298938067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just of=floppy.img and then putting that in a VM. < 1298938075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just putting COLOR.COM as the floppy in a VM. < 1298938082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, DOSemu is better and more awesome. < 1298938094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSemu would not work. < 1298938101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would need a full x86 emulator. < 1298938123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The question is, will it work in virtual 8086 mode? < 1298938178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: God knows. < 1298938179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: DOSemu != DOSbox) < 1298938219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You must start COLOR.COM under DOS. It is an operating system, and takes over the computer. You can then write a bootable floppy. Alternatively, Unix can copy COLOR.COM to a bootable floppy with cp or dd. < 1298938219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1298938224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUR, I need to learn to read < 1298938233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo will give up on colorForth as soon as he sees that it uses a variant of Dvorak. < 1298938234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am aware. < 1298938241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox would probably work because it emulates full x86. < 1298938252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DOSemu actually uses a full x86. < 1298938266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just set COLOR.COM as floppy image in VirtualBox or similar. actually qemu. < 1298938268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox may not work. < 1298938270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu will. < 1298938271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it's just sufficient virtualisation to use virtual 8086 mode. < 1298938277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh. < 1298938281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to play with qemu now < 1298938292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on x86-64 it uses a 16-bit x86 emulator instead) < 1298938321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox wants COLOR.COM to be in some format < 1298938323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh < 1298938343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some format that it understands < 1298938359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=14089 maybe just scenesters could get forth in 512B < 1298938410 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060143.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298938416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My forth OS so far is going pretty well but running out of space fast(now at 470 bytes).. < 1298938417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will print `ok` at the end of commands. It supports a stack of 4096 bytes. It supports the standard +,-,@,and ! words/operators. Also, I put in 2 extensions for `^` and `&` for writing and reading the current segment data will be writtent o(respectively)" < 1298938421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound like a proper compiler... < 1298938458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficient immediate words! < 1298938522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorForth is infinitely valuable, apparently < 1298938529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does colorForth even have immediate words? < 1298938550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Floppy images have no format. < 1298938556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try padding it out to 1.44M. < 1298938574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right now, I'm going to run it under Win98's DOS < 1298938578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: sloTH, the forth variant where _nothing_ is immediate < 1298938591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=/dev/zero of=floppy.img count=2880 < 1298938591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deja vu < 1298938598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=COLOR.COM of=floppy.img conv=notrunc < 1298938643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm, I don't think it does. Though, obviously, its use of color is semantically equivalent to the one necessary for Forth. < 1298938656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just did COLOR.COM < 1298938659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphics went weird < 1298938667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, it has : built in as colour... < 1298938681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VirtualBox logo, horribly distorted < 1298938706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up for now < 1298938739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: qemu. < 1298938741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already told you qemu. < 1298938756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too tired to play with that now < 1298938757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do not waste my time by giving the impression that you're finding any advice useful if you're not going to follow it. < 1298938804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: qemu is a very good emulator, and it behooves you to have it. < 1298938813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I ♥ the word "behooves". < 1298938833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't VirtualBox based off of qemu slightly? < 1298938839 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298938842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it befoots you < 1298938848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not really. < 1298938880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It'd be a GPL violation for VirtualBox to be based off of qemu, as there is a proprietary version of VirtualBox. < 1298938980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'd imagine that Bellard's work wouldn't integrate well with the more bureaucratic stuff coming out of Sun. < 1298939007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu is Linux-only? < 1298939024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no. < 1298939028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, there's a Windows port < 1298939034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how up to date it is < 1298939047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stops updating.(2007/03/10) < 1298939047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for your help." < 1298939053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It builds on Windows in mingw just fine, IIRC. < 1298939070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage3.nifty.com/takeda-toshiya/qemu/ < 1298939089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.qemu.org/Download Here, have something useful. < 1298939104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only real dependencies are GCC and SDL. < 1298939126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if my MinGW is non-borked < 1298939137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage3.nifty.com/takeda-toshiya/qemu/qemu-0.13.0-windows.zip would work fine... < 1298939141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from 2010 after all. < 1298939163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha ha @ thinking Sgeo knows how to use a C compiler. < 1298939179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, s/knows how to use/will use/ for some incomprehensible reason.) < 1298939181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in Linux, I'm comfortable enough... < 1298939228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats. You can use a C toolchain anywhere. < 1298939231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then install Linux. < 1298939233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, it's gcc. < 1298939236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the freakin' same as Linux. < 1298939242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have MSYS, it's even bash. < 1298939251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have screwed up my copy of MinGW < 1298939254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd foo; ./configure; make. < 1298939255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C build environment is very similar pretty much everywhere; it's pretty much defined as "what UNIX does". < 1298939255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was hard. < 1298939256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to get various things to work < 1298939282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unless you use VISUAL STUUUUDIOOOOOOO < 1298939285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You, sir, fail at computers. I hereby ban you from ever touching anything with more than two transistors. < 1298939295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Even there it ships with a make. < 1298939302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaah but nmake. < 1298939310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, true, nmake sucks ass. < 1298939316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How on earth can you screw up MinGW? < 1298939331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp /dev/null mingw.exe? That can't be it, Windows has no /dev/null. < 1298939332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By installing Git Bash? < 1298939339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though. < 1298939339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage3.nifty.com/takeda-toshiya/qemu/qemu-0.13.0-windows.zip < 1298939341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1298939345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I downloaded it < 1298939363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298939375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeaBIOS < 1298939377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C BIOS < 1298939381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sillies < 1298939403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should read QEMU documentation before playing with it... < 1298939417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should read a man page. Like a real man. < 1298939463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only read womyn pages. < 1298939487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should kill people who use "womyn" seriously. < 1298939506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: qemu -fda color.com -vga std. If you can't make that work, pray and perhaps god will have mercy on your soul. < 1298939545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't planning on playing with colorForth just yet, but ok < 1298939599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear *God* you morons, Indo-European languages have gender neutral/male and female words. Now SUCK IT UP AND ACCEPT THAT "MEN" IS GENDER NEUTRAL AND HAS BEEN SINCE BEFORE THERE WAS FREAKING WRITING IN EUROPE. < 1298939619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and make me a sandwich. :P < 1298939650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blackness < 1298939723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still, those who complain about gender-neutral terms because they're "stupid" ignore the fact that it does have a definite subconscious effect... < 1298939728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course "woman" is perfectly fine. < 1298939742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not derive from the word man-as-in-man, after all. < 1298939742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not working < 1298939796 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298939811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Still, those who complain about gender-neutral terms because they're "stupid" ignore the fact that it does have a definite subconscious effect... < 1298939812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course "woman" is perfectly fine. < 1298939812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It does not derive from the word man-as-in-man, after all. < 1298939820 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Many of those gender-neutral forms are really, insanely awkward though. < 1298939847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You should read this. http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html < 1298939866 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think "he or she" instead of "he" or trying to replace gender-neutral use of "men" in phrases such as "All men are created equal". < 1298939878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They" instaed of "he". < 1298939890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, while "men" there is gender-neutral in origin, the word "men" is _not_ gender neutral today. < 1298939892 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's an annoying one. < 1298939898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instead < 1298939901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What, singular "they"? < 1298939904 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1298939906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it all the time, it is perfectly acceptable. < 1298939911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare used it for god's sake. < 1298939920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, read http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html. < 1298939966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298940092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Spivak pronouns myself though < 1298940101 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298940145 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1298940160 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, finished reading. < 1298940222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it's a very good article to expose people's unrealised cognitive biases... < 1298940249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lubuntu boots slowly in qemu... < 1298940286 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298940374 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Decent piece of rhetoric, pitiful for making a rational case. < 1298940403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually a satire of (the late) William Safire's corresponding view on gender-neutral language. < 1298940430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it is surely not intended to convince outright; it is intended only to expose unknown biases, because without that knowledge it is pointless to try and debate. < 1298940443 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at that, it certainly does an admirable job. < 1298940581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: As far as I'm concerned, consider if people with blue eye colour were referred to as blues, and people with green eye colour (let's assume these are the only two eye colours for this line) were keblues, but that both of these derived from the eye-colour-neutral word "blue" in a previous language. And consider also that there was a long, long history of discrimination against and inequality for keblues, and that almost every word referring < 1298940581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to a person in some way brought up their eye colour in this way... < 1298940597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the word meant in the past is irrelevant compared to what it means today. < 1298940598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is QEMU 0.11.1 acceptable? < 1298940620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously this cannot be fixed outright in English. But where its solution is not jarring -- for instance the perfectly-cromulent singular they -- it is recommendable. < 1298940632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no need to distinguish any property in pronouns. < 1298940654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm actually going to use a GUI with Qemu < 1298940656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sue me. < 1298940726 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assert that changing the language in the name of diminishing inequality does not in any way affect *actual* inequality, and is as such little more than a exercise in navel-gazing. < 1298940746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is an inequality in and of itself. < 1298940772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It's been shown that the default choice of "he" leads to this kind of male-centrism... if an even-female author started fleshing out and writing dialogue for a character with no yet-decided gender, you could bet that if you asked her what her impression of eir gender is, she would respond "male". < 1298940777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider Hofstadter, the author of that piece I linked. < 1298940781 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fairly minor and inconsequential one, perhaps. < 1298940793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Gödel, Escher, Bach there is a turtle, in the Achilles/Turtle dialogues. < 1298940811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing whatsoever in the book to suggest e is male apart from the automatic use of the pronoun "he" -- which, let's say, is neutral, because that is the position. < 1298940851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet when the French translator of the book asked Hofstadter if they could change the turtle's gender, for in French the word "turtle" is feminine (or something of that sort) and as such a male turtle character would be exceedingly torturous to write without seeming awkward -- this surprised Hofstadter immensely. < 1298940859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He agreed. < 1298940882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we can see, the default of "he" assigned a character's gender to be male when there was no inherent reason for them to be either male or female, and this notion got cemented. < 1298940885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there is a real inequality. < 1298940946 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does changing the language in this manner affect more notable issues, such as the difference in male/female pay, or the rather pitiful presence of females in politics, engineering, science, math, etc.? < 1298940956 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes < 1298940960 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Do tell. < 1298940984 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in experimental studies where people were asked to use gender neutral terms were more likely to < 1298941009 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rate people equally at a task than if they used gender specific terms (even female specific terms) < 1298941031 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, then, perhaps we *should* strive to engender a more gender-neutral language. < 1298941053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :engender hur hur hur < 1298941055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my contribution < 1298941063 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I felt obligated. < 1298941089 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I attempt to use gender neutral terms when able. However there are times when it is purely awkward to do so < 1298941122 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I won't use words like "xe" unless they become mainstream < 1298941138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singular they, yo. < 1298941159 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hrm? < 1298941162 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still insists on singular informal "thou". :P < 1298941195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: "They" > "xe". < 1298941225 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: by the way - while said tendency to rate different based on gender is global -- the particular traits are culture specific < 1298941250 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Well, yes, that would make sense; it'd probably be based upon cultural gender rôles. < 1298941266 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: sort of - its actually based on language & gender roles < 1298941279 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let me type for a sec - this is a bit long) < 1298941461 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: In English nouns have no gender - and as such English speakers associate neutral traits with the word "chair". However Hebrew speakers associated male traits with the word "כסא" because it is a male noun. However people were more likely to associate _gender_ with gender roles. Meaning that English speakers were more likely to call "kitchen" a "feminine" but were NOT likely associate "feminine" traits [ I'm not sure where this < 1298941461 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list came from - but things like "warm" "caring" "loving" ] with "kitchen" < 1298941464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU seems to be _slow_ < 1298941537 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you have hardware virtualisation? < 1298941543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1298941546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn it on. < 1298941549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CARING KITCHEN! < 1298941558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I didn't realize it could be off < 1298941565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: kqemu is linux onl < 1298941565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1298941566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1298941581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, QEMU Manager has an option to install KQEMU < 1298941593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I used < 1298941598 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KQEMU is for Linux and Windows. < 1298941605 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its for FreeBSD as well < 1298941617 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: did my wall-of-text above make sense? < 1298941617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 0.11 significantly slower that 0.13? < 1298941620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Let's pretend I left it out just to troll you. < 1298941620 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Yeah. < 1298941628 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not really. < 1298941637 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Believe it or not, software emulation is pretty much always slow. < 1298941657 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: That... Makes quite a bit of sense. < 1298941664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMware seems to be speedy with Lubuntu... < 1298941708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU Manager doesn't seem to like fullscreen < 1298941711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets pissed off < 1298941742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: VirtualBox's x86 emulation is faster than hardware virt. circa 2007 IIRC < 1298941763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up for now < 1298941765 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, Imma call bull. < 1298941780 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I recall some experiments relating to gender neutral words and assumptions about whether the characters in the story were male/female. Problem is that I don't remember anything else :) < 1298941785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: VB's x86 emulation is stupidly optimised. < 1298941795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: *Stupidly.* < 1298941799 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said - changing language in such a manner is *hard* < 1298941803 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hrm ? < 1298941808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ? < 1298941820 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Its x86 "emulation" is almost certainly executing user-mode code directly. < 1298941823 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stupidly optimized == very good or very bad ? < 1298941827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Very good. < 1298941833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Perhaps. < 1298941837 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it is < 1298941842 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as such doesn't work outside of x86. < 1298941853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Since 2006, Intel and AMD processors have had support for so-called "hardware virtualization". This means that these processors can help VirtualBox to intercept potentially dangerous operations that a guest operating system may be attempting and also makes it easier to present virtual hardware to a virtual machine.]] < 1298941857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sounds like it. < 1298941865 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern emulators just trap syscalls but run usermoe code directly < 1298941888 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all that means is that it is running as the hypervisor and intercepting syscalls < 1298941891 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: qemu doesn't. < 1298941920 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm not very familiar with qemu - but that would make it *much* slower than vbox < 1298941929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It is. < 1298941936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qemu is ridiculously slow but ridiculously accurate. < 1298941938 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu can't, really — it's a platform-independent emulator. < 1298941942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Bochs can compete in slowness and accuracy :P < 1298941956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, qemu's portability is the thing. < 1298942027 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention it emulates a variety of CPUS. < 1298942033 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1298942065 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list is... x86, x86-64, MIPS, SPARC, ARM, SH4, PPC, CRIS, and MicroBlaze. < 1298942075 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all of them are whole-system emulators) < 1298942103 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Alpha. < 1298942107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: / < 1298942115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Not Alpha. < 1298942119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not do Alpha. < 1298942123 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1298942123 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw. < 1298942158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used Bochs. < 1298942182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bochs won't work if you assign only one megabyte of memory, you need to assign at least two megabytes of memory to make it work?) < 1298942208 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, yes, it does, just not whole-system emulation. < 1298942223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay then. < 1298942228 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm also seeing an m68k emulator here. < 1298942296 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love userspace emulation. < 1298942847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:21:42 U+23E5 FLATNESS: ⏥. Certainly, that is the concept of flatness, compressed into a single symbol. < 1298942847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:21:54 fizzie: That’s not… well… flat. < 1298942847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:01 It’s poking upwards. < 1298942847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:11 You probably have to just look at it in the right way. < 1298942848 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@2001:4428:251:1:21f:16ff:fe68:a55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298942848 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298942848 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1298942890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:21 Become one with the flatness, you know. < 1298943055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:32:42 Deewiant, the bash builtin time is more accurate < 1298943055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:32:48 three decimals < 1298943055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:00 Oh noes the inaccuracy!! < 1298943055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:09 Deewiant, for cfunge it matters. it is so quick < 1298943059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:15 I knew you'd say that < 1298943059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:18 And you're wrong < 1298943059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:24 It doesn't matter, precisely because it is so quick < 1298943061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:37 If you get to the point that the wall clock time is 0.00s... you're done < 1298943062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33:48 All you have to do then is get a slower computer :-P < 1298943464 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have the font for U+23E5 in my computer < 1298943589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's FLATNESS. < 1298943900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298943914 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298944332 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-habuoqqmxcetvnad JOIN :#esoteric < 1298944380 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298944823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298945405 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" There is no need to distinguish any property in pronouns." <<< it makes a good point < 1298945428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: hey i wouldn't mind a language where people are referred to as the it equivalent < 1298945432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally pure < 1298945528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Lojban do? Refers to earlier in the ... sentence-equivent structure, I think? < 1298945531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely remember < 1298945536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, you here? < 1298945644 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Aaaand another B on a math test, simply because I have little ability to pay attention to small details." worst typoing of "suck" i've ever seen < 1298945743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: xDD < 1298945820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:08 Haha 'I only use Gentoo with -fbroken-math, -fno-stack, and -finfinite-loops.' < 1298945820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:26 Deewiant, who? < 1298945820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:31 also that is a joke obviously < 1298945821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:42 what would -finfinite-loops do, anyway? < 1298945821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:49 the other two I can sort of guess < 1298945821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:51 It inlines finite loops < 1298945823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:47:59 heh < 1298945825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298945827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it inlines EVERY loop! < 1298945835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite loops then become truly infinite in the generated code. < 1298945902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298945911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:38 AMD64 I can understand, x86_64 I can't. < 1298945911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:57:56 Nor the banal x64. < 1298945912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dobel < 1298945940 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" What happened was that I confronted a teacher about some dubious claims she had made to my parents, which resulted in them phoning my parents directly and making even *more* dubious claims (read: lies)." <<< aren't you in high school? < 1298946000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: yes, he is < 1298946003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1298946188 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ominovorol: hey i wouldn't mind a language where people are referred to as the it equivalent" <<< in finnish, people usually say it for people < 1298946194 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, always < 1298946213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: now i'm even more indecisive about learning trollspeak (finns) vs moonspeak (japs) :( < 1298946232 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese is all about making a difference between living and nonliving things < 1298946273 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" why?" <<< calling parents in high school?!? that would never happen in finland < 1298946282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: :D < 1298946288 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean come on, no one lives at home in high school < 1298946288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : japanese is all about making a difference between living and nonliving things < 1298946289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like < 1298946292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hippy language. < 1298946304 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298946309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how hippie is jap < 1298946336 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: would you agree that japanese makes a very clear distinction between living and nonliving things < 1298946341 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1298946352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is hipie < 1298946356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one p < 1298946361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be completely wrong about things like this, having inferred them form rather few examples < 1298946384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it totally reflects the cold impersonal nature of finns < 1298946386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and loving, warm nature of japs < 1298946389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sapir whorf motherfucker < 1298946401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1298946417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i couldn't care less if my own brother died of cancer < 1298946422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be a bit surprised ofc < 1298946488 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298946528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The language? Little bit of difference between humans and anything else. < 1298946552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also i occasionally say "he" for nonliving things < 1298946553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, "iru" is used for humans and "aru" for everything else. < 1298946596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:42:02 Heh, the likelyhasbetween(x,m,n) macro in http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#HasBetweenInWord is by mooz. < 1298946598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best name ever < 1298946604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about "ni" has also given me a very livingness-aware feeling of the language < 1298946612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Uh, how so? < 1298946638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that'll be easier to answer once someone actually teaches me how ni is used :) < 1298946658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, like all of the other grammatical particles, has a lot of use. < 1298946664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently i seem to get sentences right if i just use "ni" for absolutely everything with humans. < 1298946683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 例えば? < 1298946689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "ni" for both giving to and receiving from < 1298946721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're not getting the full idea of its semantics. < 1298946729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not < 1298946739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, guessing from rather few examples :) < 1298946759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar Here. Read. < 1298946765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm learning kanji now, and i've learned some vocab, will start learning grammar on my own once my thesis is finished < 1298946768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:04:17 Quite a large program, if there were 18446744073709551522 non-space elements on row 0. < 1298946768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:05:14 Something like... 10 % larger than Mycology, eh? < 1298946768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298946780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: RTK? < 1298946788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also umm < 1298946793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passive tense < 1298946794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reticulating the kant < 1298946797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*technological < 1298946816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agent thing can just be used for humans, and it's very flexible in that case < 1298946818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu < 1298946837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the depletion rate in last two months (46 058 240 addresses in 59 days), APNIC would deplete in about 2.5 months (mid May). Ugh. < 1298946843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not from examples, this is from a grammar) < 1298946845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Dang. < 1298946872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's RTK < 1298946875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Tae Kim is the only Japanese grammar I've run into that I don't despise for blatantly lying at you. < 1298946876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably the answer is no < 1298946880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTK = Remembering The Kanji. < 1298946893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: link me to that tae kim thing later < 1298946903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll like < 1298946905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no not that one, i'm using flashcards < 1298946908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally learn kana soon < 1298946911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go through rtk ... stuff... < 1298946918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: erm i think rtk is to be used in conjunction with cards... < 1298946919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Flashcards and RTK are not even vaguely exclusive. < 1298946924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just rote memorisation < 1298946932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, flashcards are expected. < 1298946932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously ineffective even to a moron like me :) < 1298946956 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28th, NTT allocate a /9(!!!) from APNIC. One fairly rarely sees blocks of that size. < 1298946956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1298946971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i allocated a /1 < 1298946976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And RTK will probably take you a month or two. < 1298947010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For, uh, the whole thing. < 1298947016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many kanji is that? < 1298947017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All t3h kanjis. < 1298947020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3,000 < 1298947021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1298947028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: RTK 1 + 3 is 3,000. < 1298947032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTK 1 is ~2,000. < 1298947035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sumthin' 'bout decomposin' teh kanjis < 1298947040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check the exact figure. < 1298947040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into littler kanjoids < 1298947041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1298947042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanjoids < 1298947044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best word < 1298947051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3007 is how many i have in the flash card set < 1298947065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 2042 in here. < 1298947077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if APNIC will deplete before world IPv6 day. At least before it depletes, it will make mincemeat out of IPv4 DFZ routing table. < 1298947121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flashcard set i'm using doesn't even have readings, so it prolly makes rather little sense to do it without a book < 1298947133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's better than "radical", actually, IMO. < 1298947136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will cause problems of its own. < 1298947143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno < 1298947151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: readings are the whole point of rtk i think < 1298947153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D < 1298947156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please say kanjoids in future < 1298947160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly easy to assign readings once you have a mental slot for every kanji < 1298947166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As "radical" technically only refers to the kanjoids that are used for dictionary lookup. < 1298947179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but but with the kanjoids you need less sluts! < 1298947182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298947182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slots < 1298947185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also the slut requirements decrease < 1298947203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The point of RTK is to get you a rough indication of the kanji's semantics, and *much more importantly* to decompose kanji into kanjoids and learn them that way. < 1298947247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can decompose into kanjoids myself tho < 1298947281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might get some wrong etc but erm so what's the point of knowing the kanjoids? < 1298947286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanjoids are like haemorrhoids. but japanese. < 1298947289 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some do think that the final downfall of IPv4 will be the DFZ table size. < 1298947291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What order are you learning them in? < 1298947292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KANJOIIII~DE! < 1298947336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the order the flashcards are in, they usually come in a rather nice order that teaches me a small thingie and uses it in about 20 kanji < 1298947354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What's the name of the flashcard set? < 1298947363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally i give my own meaning to a part tho < 1298947371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heisig's remember the kanji < 1298947384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the cues are pretty insane < 1298947391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Uh, I'm advocating the book that goes along with that flashcard set. :P < 1298947391 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder when IPv4 allocations growth rate will turn negative. < 1298947397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dunno if you could find better ones < 1298947412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah i've consider that, briefly :D < 1298947412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : heisig's remember the kanji < 1298947413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTK = < 1298947415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The Anki deck. < 1298947419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading < 1298947422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toblerone < 1298947423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the anki deck yes < 1298947427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kastration < 1298947431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by Haggard < 1298947434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H's RTK < 1298947436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*H.'s < 1298947464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but maybe i could learn all of them first and then read the book, that sounds like something a crazy like me would do. < 1298947468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 数 is a second-grade kanji. 了 is left for middle-school. < 1298947475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You may now WTF. < 1298947484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1298947487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one on the right is a spiky penis < 1298947489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you should know < 1298947494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with balls...ball) < 1298947558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one on the right is "complete", the left one i can't really make sense out of, is it that "he/she" or something thing i learned from watching kyle xy with chinese kanji subtitles maybe? < 1298947568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's "number". < 1298947573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. < 1298947589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that one yet, which is kinda weird since i'm up to something like 500 < 1298947591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The ordering used for Japanese education of kanji is perhaps the single stupidest thing ever. < 1298947650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then you know over hyakugojyuuichi. ...well i totally failed to blend that with "over 9000" < 1298947652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go home everyone. < 1298947667 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you need to know about spiky penises before middle school anyways < 1298947695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know over 151 < 1298947707 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, IPv6 migration is going to be messy to say the least. < 1298947725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm referencing http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/pika. < 1298947728 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the .cx TLD makes it through i'm happy < 1298947736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of internet yoree. < 1298947737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two es. < 1298947740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that olde. < 1298947753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i don't know that < 1298947772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you do now. go watch it. it'll learn you japanese. < 1298947773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, uh < 1298947774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonics! < 1298947787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298947802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :食 comes before 良? < 1298947808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS FUCKING CRUELTY. < 1298947815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298947816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1298947819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where does hyakugojyuuichi come in < 1298947843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hyaku, go, juu, and ichi are all first-grade. < 1298947857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there one big messy kanji with all of hyakugojyuuichi packed in, say yes < 1298947865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it sad that I at first thought it was based off that ... scientology thing? Also, I think I saw this before (unless this isn't the original). I don't think it is, but I remember one pa.. oh, it was that tribute that I'm remembering < 1298947866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :百五十一 < 1298947871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's go in japanese again < 1298947873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game < 1298947875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :igo < 1298947878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1298947878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's multiple kanjae. < 1298947881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanjoidae. < 1298947887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanji = kanjoidae < 1298947892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could stick them into a single one just fine. < 1298947895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanjae = kanjoidaeae < 1298947897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SO DO. < 1298947898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DO SO. < 1298947912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode, however, does not permit encoding such a thing. < 1298947972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wtf < 1298947975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is unicode the shits? < 1298947984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are allowed to stick them into a single kanji? < 1298947986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does shift-jis do that? or one of the other jap encodings :P < 1298947988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want like < 1298947992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agglutinative character set! < 1298948000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone buy me a better japanese course plz < 1298948036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Neologism, bitch. < 1298948059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: remembering the poopji < 1298948067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses fecal metaphors < 1298948070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the three-year-old in you < 1298948073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What, if any, Japanese course are you using? < 1298948085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to the course at the uni < 1298948086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Retarding the Kanji < 1298948089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do genki < 1298948095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, Genki. < 1298948100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one perpetuates LIES < 1298948115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most damnable lies! < 1298948133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298948135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones? < 1298948139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polite form before dictionary/plain form is wrong, stupid, wrong, stupid, and also wrong. < 1298948150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I happen to mention it's stupid and wrong? < 1298948159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, we've finally gotten past those < 1298948166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, well < 1298948183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that we now use grammatical constructs that require short form < 1298948183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is definitely the most damnable lie in Japanese pedagogy, and almost every course does it. < 1298948205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we use short form with those, and long with everything else < 1298948205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/index.en.html < 1298948206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks faggy < 1298948208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fagshitty :3 < 1298948253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polite form before dictionary form involves something absolutely, completely nuts. It involves teaching people *reverse conjugation*. < 1298948262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really. < 1298948303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the dubious benefit of being able to speak politely as you recite phrases from a phrasebook-in-the-head. < 1298948308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298948310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse conjugation < 1298948314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best idea i've ever heard < 1298948339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: if you're so very obviously not a competent speaker, the Japanese speakers aren't going to *care* if you're insufficiently formal. < 1298948351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe they will! < 1298948356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine some caring < 1298948357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REVERSE CONJUGAL VISITS < 1298948359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite honestly, they'll just be damned surprised you know more than "kon'nichiha". < 1298948371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wa < 1298948372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stupid < 1298948374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illiterate < 1298948376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :american < 1298948376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298948398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "ha" is the proper encoding of that grammatical particle, even though it is pronounced "wa". < 1298948409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAHAHA YEAH NO FOOLING ME < 1298948417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathetic save man < 1298948418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathetic < 1298948419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one of the three orthographic inconsistencies in the language. < 1298948424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the reverse conjugation thing was pretty absurd < 1298948427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we spend hours on that < 1298948436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the others are "wo" and "he", also particles) < 1298948447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does reverse conjugation even...mean. < 1298948461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You go from a conjugated form to a plain form. < 1298948466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO SHIT SHERLOCK < 1298948518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, we are taught mimasu and tabemasu, sees and eats, and then later on, we are taught how to get the basic forms miru and taberu, even though that's how they are already given in the vocabulary list < 1298948538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sees it, i eats it. < 1298948538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oyoimasu" -> "oyogu", "tabemasu" -> "taberu", "imasu" -> "iru", "simasu" -> "suru", and so on. < 1298948544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... mimasu it, i tabemasu it. < 1298948554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oyogimasu, surely? < 1298948558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dur. < 1298948565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: pikhq is illiterate as we have already established < 1298948579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen that outside of -te form more than once. < 1298948581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i hadn't read the rest of the list, so i was scared it was a form i didn't know < 1298948587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oyoide < 1298948591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1298948598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets cookie < 1298948616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought you might like this reaction from my friend who I pasted a few of these lines to: [["shimasu" ¬____¬ romanisation is there for a reason]] < 1298948620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already built my bomb shelter < 1298948622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gogogo < 1298948641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was using an ISO standard romanisation! < 1298948647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT MORE DO THEY WANT < 1298948655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hepburn*‽ < 1298948665 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1298948674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just talk in your personal romanisation scheme in future, he'll be too confused to understand you < 1298948678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an idiot btw < 1298948680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total idiot < 1298948682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolute idiot < 1298948684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna paste this to him now < 1298948684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of japanese, i should be doing my japanese homework < 1298948691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to write a diary USING SHORT FORMS < 1298948701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sonohitokàhì'kurinihàkatàyo'! < 1298948736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great how everyone's finding it really hard to say "mita" and "minai", but "tabeteimasendeshita" comes easy to everyone < 1298948764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "That's not a nice thing to say :(" < 1298948765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we started with long forms and -te forms < 1298948779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He actually got it? Fuck yeah. < 1298948792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he might have been referring to my calling him an idiot, lemme check :D < 1298948796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said he's stupid < 1298948800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's bikkuri? < 1298948800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the stupidest. < 1298948804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298948819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Bikkuri-ni" is "surprisingly" or "shockingly" or the like. < 1298948825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He got it, yes, he's terribly offended < 1298948839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERRIBLY < 1298948841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly have seen that word < 1298948844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really bad at being offended that guy < 1298948848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as bad at everything < 1298948850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the worst. < 1298948861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ask him how well he reads Japanese. < 1298948869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Say, how hard is Wikipedia in Japanese? < 1298948885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: probably badly, he doesn't actually know any ;D < 1298948894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lamer! < 1298948900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read wikipedia in japanese just fine, because it's in katakana hahahaha < 1298948907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how i'm trashing his reputation in front of him < 1298948909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Baaah. < 1298948909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's helpless < 1298948915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: really? xD < 1298948918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I am really quite bad at it" < 1298948923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just the word "Wikipedia". < 1298948923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wikipedia" is in katakana < 1298948930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight from the horse's mouth itself and that horse is NOT a metaphor < 1298948933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: LULZ < 1298948938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ウィキペディア <- < 1298948939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an old joke from the bible < 1298948956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uīkihętèīa) < 1298948964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was all like "wikipediakuu"? < 1298948970 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*""wikipediakuu?" < 1298948976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh *-" < 1298948983 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298948997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though ku is not katakana, written like that < 1298949022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... Eat Wikipedia? < 1298949025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is wrong with you. < 1298949034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary talking about japanese with pikhq, he really makes you feel like you should not suck at something you supposedly do < 1298949042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1298949076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you're the one talking about eating wikipedia < 1298949087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just reading it and going wtf myself < 1298949097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kuu = eat? < 1298949113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "kue" means "EAT MOTHERFUCKER" < 1298949118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not that strong < 1298949128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kuu" is a fairly informal "eat", yeah. < 1298949129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's more like "EAT BITCH" < 1298949136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean imperative, "eat" didn't convey that so i added the motherfucker, which puts it in imperative. < 1298949138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or samurai-like, depending on context. < 1298949159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Context can make it that. < 1298949167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah english has two ways to do imperatives, the motherfucker and the bitch forms < 1298949248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our english teacher said you also use fucker but that that's a more advanced topic < 1298949254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i'm like a two-way irc client for my friend < 1298949257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just drag him in here < 1298949261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pikhq can mock him directly < 1298949263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in favour say aye < 1298949268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can mock him too < 1298949273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't even read wikipedia, lol < 1298949275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an aye then < 1298949277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a fucking retard < 1298949292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i opened it once and could read one of the kanji just fine < 1298949294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when was the last time you read ja.wikipedia oklopol ;D < 1298949296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1298949301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kanjae < 1298949326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't read it *out loud* fully, but hey, who needs to do that? :P < 1298949333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298949334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru < 1298949352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fall, i hadn't learned any kanji back then < 1298949355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can i get an aye < 1298949361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aye, laddy! < 1298949388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Probably the worst bit about a formal Japanese course is how mind-bogglingly slow it is. < 1298949402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION surrounds the space where elliott's heart should be with stones < 1298949416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1298949422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why < 1298949422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will be about able to discuss with a somewhat boring 4 year old by the time you're done with Genki. < 1298949430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1298949443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just listened to the second book's last listening comprehension < 1298949446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, sorry, a *particularly* boring 4 year old. < 1298949456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was about something like "can you play the guitar?" < 1298949476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kata thingie or what was it < 1298949500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm or was koto sometimes used for that kinda thing < 1298949514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in any case, point was it was something very simple :) < 1298949518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, -u koto ga aru? < 1298949521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1298949533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have you done something < 1298949546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have the personal event of playing the guitar < 1298949548 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298949556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really gets me with that shit is that ALL OF THIS COMES ENTIRELY NATURALLY FROM "koto" and "aru"! < 1298949580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really, you could "teach" that by just saying it a few times and someone who doesn't suck would get it. < 1298949587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. "someone who doesn't suck". < 1298949603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it comes naturally from thinking koto is the event of you doing something < 1298949612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure that's what it is < 1298949636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i've rationalized it wrong, genki just says "copy paste this sentence, change words X and Y" < 1298949649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, see, that's horribly wrong, and you should read Tae Kim. < 1298949654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And drop that course. < 1298949672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be more productive if you just watched anime during the time you'd be taking that course, *and did nothing else*. < 1298949690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, but i can't "drop a course" < 1298949691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to specify further: anime, without subs, in Japanese) < 1298949696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a superfag and spent 10 minutes saying he was leaving too quickly to use webchat.freenode.net as opposed to the three minutes it'd take to get mocked mercilessly here < 1298949698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry guyz < 1298949741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i also believe that, but i don't actually enjoy anime < 1298949746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoy lectures tho < 1298949746 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. During last two months, APNIC allocated on average 9.035 IPv4 addresses per second. < 1298949754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Anime is a fairly broad medium. < 1298949766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and i seem to dislike all of it, except for death note < 1298949775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've only seen like maybe 30 or so < 1298949780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, what's popular *in the US* tends to be Japan's Saturday morning cartoons. < 1298949792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this includes Death Note. < 1298949803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death note was very good < 1298949809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you like? < 1298949825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly never heard < 1298949840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My three absolute, utter favorites are Kino's Journey, Baccano!, and Mushishi. < 1298949850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah never heard :) < 1298949887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friends all watch one piece xD < 1298949907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's not a kid's show in japan, i'm a shoe < 1298949912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a shok < 1298949913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids' < 1298949935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol will you be here tomorrow < 1298949937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq you too < 1298949941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298949941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sync up, i'll get the fag to come in here < 1298949943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can all mock him < 1298949945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never be here again < 1298949953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: great, how does midnight UTC sound < 1298949992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(キノの旅 -the Beautiful World-, バッカーノ!, and 蟲師, respectively) < 1298949999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I probably will be. < 1298950018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1298950019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get your like < 1298950023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best worst insults ready < 1298950056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I also rather enjoyed Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann, Fullmetal Alchemist, Code Geass, Hellsing, and Elfen Lied. < 1298950095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gurren-Lagann is mostly notable for being completely and utterly over-the-top. < 1298950113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, mechs throwing galaxies as shuriken. < 1298950117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those all morning cartoons? < 1298950128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elfen lied is the most morning cartoon of them all < 1298950132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe. < 1298950132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HAH. < 1298950135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because cowboy bebop sucks, fullmetal alchemist sucks, code geass sucks and elfen lied sucks < 1298950147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You disliked Cowboy Bebop? < 1298950156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's oklopol, he's not allowed to have conventional opinions < 1298950157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that one i actually haven't seen that much < 1298950157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's contractua < 1298950159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1298950165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*contractual < 1298950174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, it is mandatory you like the music. < 1298950190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alchemist certainly sucks, was elfen lied the one with a lot of blood < 1298950197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that that thing with blood in its name < 1298950201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a morning cartoon! < 1298950203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elfen Lied was uber-violent. < 1298950205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It wasn't. < 1298950208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1298950208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YES IT WAS < 1298950210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It aired at like midnight. < 1298950214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well needless killing is nice of course < 1298950217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's just really early morning. < 1298950221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids are probably up by then. < 1298950249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fullmetal Alchemist and Code Geass were kids cartoons. < 1298950250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code geass i may have just heard about :P < 1298950256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is Gurren-Lagann. < 1298950264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fullmetal alchemist is so obviously a kids' cartoon my ass is on fire < 1298950284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's full metal jacket you illiterate fucks! < 1298950286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha im such troll. < 1298950293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, it is. < 1298950346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baccano!, Mushishi, and Kino's Journey, BTW, are *nothing* like the other anime I had mentioned... < 1298950394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Baccano! has alchemists, so I guess it'd be vaguely related to Fullmetal Alchemist. < 1298950407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, point taken. there's also this guy who suggests i watch actual japanese programs with people in them < 1298950437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Can't comment much, except to say that I liked Great Teacher Onizuka, and their variety shows are solidly WTF. < 1298950455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've watched a few shows, and the overall impression is that japs can't act < 1298950467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the impression I've gotten. < 1298950472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1298950516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen acting as bad as in the shows i've seen on tv. of course the shows were incredibly bad and probably have never been shown on tv in japan either. < 1298950522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1298950526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may have been hard to parse < 1298950540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on western tv, i have never seen acting as bad as in the jap shows i've seen. < 1298950550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music, I find a little bit hard, because I absolutely *despise* J-pop, and that's what people in America are familiar with, so that's all I've heard *much* about. < 1298950555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like they were trying to be anime characters < 1298950605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how can people even like j-pop < 1298950612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I dunno. < 1298950612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just because they're fuckin' weeaboos < 1298950615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1298950621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no western pop is vapid and shitty because it's like < 1298950627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so culturally insensitive and terrible < 1298950627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only listen to music where you can't make out the lyrics anyway < 1298950632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the japanese are platonically perfect amazing beings of light < 1298950634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so music is kinda useless for learning languages < 1298950637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their pop is liquid ambrosia in music sex form < 1298950693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Japanese band I really listen to *currently* has "it is difficult to classify this band" on its Wikipedia page... < 1298950700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name? < 1298950700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... Pretty awesome, really. < 1298950708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sakanaction (サカナクション) < 1298950735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew what action is in japanese, so i could translate that < 1298950755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter, it's Engrish. :P < 1298950765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To them it reflects their wish to act quickly and lightly, like fishes in the water, without fearing changes to the music scenes." < 1298950766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::wat: < 1298950774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I SAID IT WAS ENGRISH. < 1298950805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to get a bit of a thick skin to Engrish if you do Japanese. < 1298950845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if i avoid people. < 1298950854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are people who think "Sperm" is an entirely unnoteworthy name for a store. < 1298950860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298950863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visit SPERM < 1298950879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it "Semen"? < 1298950888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visit sperm on semen alley < 1298950960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, would it kill people to just *ask* an English speaker? < 1298950974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, moronic immigration policy. < 1298951026 0 :Alex_Megaroide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298951081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link a good song from sakanaction < 1298951123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS6wzjpCvec < 1298951159 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298951253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i walk alone! < 1298951253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298951255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1298951260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no sins in mind... < 1298951266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooo < 1298951268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gone < 1298951278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boku wa aruku hitori < 1298951490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haojdsf < 1298951528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i did not find that song particularly anything < 1298951583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few surprises ofc, japs are less afraid of having a tiny bit of originality in their songs < 1298951589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than western pop ppl < 1298951682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaoYJLKG03o but come on, real music exists, why listen to that < 1298951864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i have to admit faceless has taught me very little japanese < 1298951889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1298951891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very little? < 1298951893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but non-zero? < 1298951913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it has expanded my mind in every direction < 1298951943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq left you know < 1298951945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a while ago < 1298951946 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-205-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298951947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1298951948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although faceless is the reason i now enjoy music i found extremely braindead before < 1298951949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you commented on that < 1298951949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1298951950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE'S BACK < 1298951957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oklopol hates the song. < 1298951962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't hate the song :P < 1298951968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i NOTHING it < 1298951990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh suuure < 1298951993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oklopol hates you < 1298952011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background stuff was fun, but i couldn't really make any of that out further than that < 1298952015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HATRED is no doubt reserved complete bullshit "music", rather than differing tastes. < 1298952030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, reserved for. < 1298952031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i don't really deal out hatred < 1298952092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't really understand music where the main melody is sung, it all sounds the same to me < 1298952099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah can't comment much < 1298952126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when oklopol listens to acapella < 1298952128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all he hears is silence. < 1298952130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298952132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid the closest I get to your suggested "real music" is the Black Mages. < 1298952145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... Isn't very. < 1298952151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Cz2dFTlSA&feature=related < 1298952185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: So far (first... 15 seconds?), yeah. < 1298952188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore the growls ofc :D < 1298952210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike growl "singing". < 1298952216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you do < 1298952222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to learn to take it seriously < 1298952231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, I totally approve of awesome, well-executed guitar. < 1298952242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the point < 1298952258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone do growling and falsetto simultaneously < 1298952267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would be amazing. also hilarious. < 1298952282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably be more into metal if it were instrumental, TBH. < 1298952284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that lowest vocal thing < 1298952288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gutteral or something... < 1298952290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1298952291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't understand the point of growling for years, but it grows on you... i guess singing grows on you too if you let it < 1298952295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lowest of low < 1298952317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ask all these serious questions and you're like myeh myeh myeh < 1298952356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unfortunately most of it is to a large extent based on the growling. < 1298952362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vocal fry register. < 1298952369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right yes < 1298952372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do that and falsetto at once < 1298952374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: say yes. < 1298952382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt it. < 1298952390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've tried, though. < 1298952395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can growl? < 1298952403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh qIR < 1298952404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I can do vocal fry register. < 1298952405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1298952412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sorry wasn't reading every line < 1298952433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298952441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it oklopol < 1298952442 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must have not read ANY of the lines. < 1298952443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your new life goal < 1298952479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right pikhq sings and is a bass right? < 1298952488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1298952505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's been a couple years since I was in a choir. < 1298952520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you told that at least once but that was before i knew your irc persona < 1298952528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1pTgyO-O8 Opine, you. < 1298952544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall attempt < 1298952548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "your irc persona"? :P < 1298952565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no persona unique to IRC! < 1298952588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how would i know < 1298952591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1298952598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people sometimes dislike when you tell them you know them < 1298952600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on irc < 1298952608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you aren't in that set. < 1298952633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not consider my presence on IRC to be in any way distinct from my presence anywhere else, except in terms of the medium. < 1298952634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have high confidence in being able to learn to know someone on irc < 1298952649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes 3 of us, then, prolly < 1298952694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did oklopol know pikhq before eso or sth < 1298952710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1298952716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1298952731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The very lowest part of the register can extend in rare cases to 20–50 pulses per second." FUCK YEAH, I'M A RARE CASE. < 1298952798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1298952806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm squeaky mcchipmunk < 1298952808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can't relate < 1298952827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to 0g o to slepp < 1298952827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1298952843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned puberty took the whistle register from me, though. < 1298952850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this is good, perhaps a bit too happy for my taste < 1298952865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not too repetitive < 1298952880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was < 1298952885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slightly* repetitive < 1298952893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: This is what happens when a composer of vaguely classical soundtrack music feels like doing metal. < 1298952916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most metal fans i know like classical music < 1298952968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least they say this, possibly they just want to sound like they appreciate music because of its complex smartnessity instead of because growling sounds cool. < 1298952990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts on some Led Zeppelin. :) < 1298953003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely worries about his step-mother < 1298953014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem with classical is once you get used to drums, you feel like something's missing if they're not there < 1298953020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get over that quickly ofc < 1298953047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a problem for fans of nearly any modern musical form, though. < 1298953053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1298953062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much all got a beat defined by drums. Even freaking pop. < 1298953081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well pop is all about drums and singing < 1298953085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all about singing < 1298953094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "singing" you mean "autotune". < 1298953098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1298953113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all pop uses autotune yet < 1298953117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it < 1298953127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really following its... ""progress"" < 1298953127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can freaking tell when autotune is being used extensively. < 1298953133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOES. < 1298953143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my sisters and mother listen to top 40 radio. Gag.) < 1298953172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why? < 1298953181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't quite describe what it is, except to say that it's kinda like the harmonics on the singing are all... Wrong. < 1298953209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost as though it's coming from an eerily good voice synth. < 1298953214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which arguably it is. < 1298953218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad's not home yet. My dad staying late has never been a good sign.. except with my step-mom, in which case he's probably just staying over or something < 1298953219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you certainly learn to know it once you've listened to people who do their singing in it completely < 1298953222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that k... guy < 1298953224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still on edge from last week < 1298953226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget his name < 1298953228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all < 1298953234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanye < 1298953235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :west < 1298953248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaking Kanye West. < 1298953252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad was still elsewhere, despite it being very late at night < 1298953265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last time I remember was like that was when my step-mom's sister's bf died < 1298953278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1298953281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after it you mean? < 1298953298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about my step-mother's mom, how she was. "So-so". That was a lie, he didn't want to tell me over the phone < 1298953336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But.. my step-mom's not in the hospital or anything, so there's no real reason to worry < 1298953338 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298953374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'm following you, why exactly is your step-mom sad < 1298953380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1298953443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, her mom died last week... < 1298953452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh alright < 1298953462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i get it < 1298953478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I asked about my step-mother's mom, how she was." read this as "i asked my step-mother's mom" < 1298953486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made everything a bit confusing < 1298953591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gag* Why am I recalling idol singers? And why do my ears feel like they need to be punctured? < 1298953617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idol singers? < 1298953621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't name any < 1298953629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, I try to ignore them. < 1298953632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm recalling the concept. < 1298953637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i succeed in ignoring them < 1298953639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1298953663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wanna hear more about how sucky my jap course is < 1298953666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure! < 1298953671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec < 1298953705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i was gonna say but our teacher is already very crappy for the simple reason she sucks at english < 1298953718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't ask anything, because she'll just repeat what she already told. < 1298953729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dear, you've got a teacher with nihonjinron precepts as *well*. < 1298953758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking stuff takes a huge effort, not everyone is confident about their english to do it < 1298953766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your teacher likely has the preconception that foreigners will never attain fluency at Japanese. < 1298953779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that do, like me, aren't really the ones that have questions related to the material at hand < 1298953786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1298953794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have this language circle thin < 1298953795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1298953799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can talk to japs and shit < 1298953806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she told us DO NOT GO THERE, YOU CANNOT SPEAK JAPANESE < 1298953811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly and clearly < 1298953828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN. < 1298953870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person probably also thinks you shouldn't read manga because it's not "real" Japanese or some shit. < 1298953871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so what i was originally going to say was < 1298953879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today, we have a "dialogue test" < 1298953892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means we MEMORIZE THREE CHAPTERS OF THE BOOK < 1298953894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298953912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echm* < 1298953918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :馬鹿馬鹿しい! < 1298953933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1298953940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did have another one where we memorized more useful sentences like "i have a car", so it's not all bad ;) < 1298953956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i know the "lung" kanji < 1298953961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't make it out... < 1298953968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a moon and a market right < 1298953979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1298953983 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298953988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BAKABAKASHII!", BTW. < 1298953999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1298954004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, translated, something akin to "YOU COMPLETE IMBECILE!" < 1298954008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misunderstood you < 1298954009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1298954057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, anyhow the teacher does tell the second year students they should watch anime and read manga, i think < 1298954067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't take a second year. < 1298954074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298954076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a time machine and undo the first year. < 1298954105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not taking the second year would feel like failing < 1298954113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298954128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET ME WASTE MY TIME IN PEACE AND COMPLAIN TO YOU ON A DAILY BASIS! < 1298954150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, seriously. What you've learned so far should have taken you maybe a week. < 1298954174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the course, yes prolly < 1298954214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt many could learn everything i know in a week, although certainly in a month. < 1298954303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kinda crazy, we have like 8 ways to conjugate a verb and people are still struggling with them, i mean come on you have to know like 15 rules < 1298954320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that take more than an hour < 1298954326 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298954327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you how < 1298954336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how we practise short forms < 1298954359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teacher: "oyogimasu", us: "oyogu", teacher: "mimasu", us: "miru" < 1298954385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the class is lulled into a "remove the masu" trance < 1298954385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is retarded. Positively retarded. < 1298954401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, after 10 hours of that, you will know the rules to some extent! < 1298954409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298954449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the end, everyone will have their own "oh so this is how it goes" moment later, when these start actually getting used < 1298954505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/classes-suck < 1298954513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma just leave that there. < 1298954518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1298954594 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298954663 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298955025 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298955310 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298955541 0 :sandrstar!~astarche@212.92.145.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298955546 0 :sandrstar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298955763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298956961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298958500 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1298959321 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298962540 0 :uniqanomaly!~ua@dynamic-78-8-215-137.ssp.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298964273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1298964277 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-231-97.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298966399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1298966400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1298967660 0 :uniqanomaly_!~ua@dynamic-78-8-217-114.ssp.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298967906 0 :uniqanomaly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298968154 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298968242 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298968242 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298968242 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1298968664 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298969836 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298969862 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1298970009 0 :nik340!~ndaquann@c-68-32-1-179.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298970009 0 :nik340!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298971084 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1298971486 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298971557 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181130154.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298972935 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298972953 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-10.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298975497 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298975771 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298976670 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298977203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298977291 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298977891 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298978025 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181134116.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298978224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1298978474 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1298978937 0 :invariable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1298979007 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298979388 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298980351 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298981168 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g231049057.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298981377 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298981407 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298982703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298982799 0 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1298982877 0 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-26-252.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298984659 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298986219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298986319 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC stats jumped to 4.42 (3.42 after removing the 1 reserved block). Apparently they added ERX blocks to the stats. < 1298986422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298986452 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298986558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:20:48 Freaking Kanye West. < 1298986572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but Pitchfork LOVED his new album, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY HE COULD BE SHITTY < 1298986575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot comprehend it. < 1298986759 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58 854 144 addresses (3.508 blocks) left according to extended delegations file. < 1298987054 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298987161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largest IPv6 blocks APNIC has available: /17s. < 1298987332 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only twice as many as the number of /16s in anything, such as IPv4 < 1298987404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1298987412 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1298987424 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be marking right now, but the person I'm meant to mark hasn't turned up < 1298987445 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird given that she was here a) yesterday, b) earlier today < 1298987478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we choose which one is true? < 1298987524 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they both are, so you'd be correct no matter which choice you made < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: " < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second character, }, means “sea” and it is made up of three < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts. To the left you see Y, the three drops of water, indicating that < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has something to do with water. The upper right two-stroke < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combination ” is an abbreviated form of Þ which is one of the < 1298987537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many forms for grass and anything that flourishes luxuriously like < 1298987539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grass. Below it is a slightly simplified form of ª, the pictograph of < 1298987541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two breasts, meaning “mother.” Together, the right side is an image < 1298987543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a woman with her hair up" < 1298987545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is heisig insane or is chinese insane :) < 1298987550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that copied "well" < 1298987560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just assume pikhq is so much of a kanji wizard he can infer < 1298987588 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here, each character seems to have become a single character of Latin-1 < 1298987610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1298987613 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Freenode's web access < 1298987613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from what looks like a tex document < 1298987617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, latex < 1298987622 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, is it a PDF? < 1298987625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298987629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: of course i sent it as utf-8 since my client does < 1298987632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reencode, presumably < 1298987634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whereas î has only one reading in Chinese, shang, in Japanese it < 1298987634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has at least 10 recognized pronunciations, 6 of which all school < 1298987634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :children have to learn:" < 1298987639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, there's an insane language here, and it's not chinese < 1298987658 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common latex->pdf algorithm works by inventing an encoding specific to that document, and embedding it in the PDF < 1298987667 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can specify your own encodings in PDFs < 1298987680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2 standard Chinese (on) readings: jõ and shõ < 1298987680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 s t a n d a r d J a p a n e s e (kun) r e a d i n g s : kami, ue, a[garu], < 1298987680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no[boru], (and 3 more, if you include variations on these < 1298987682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last 2) < 1298987684 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDF readers that try to copy-paste the text stream of the document therefore get confused < 1298987685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 rare Japanese readings: hotori, kuwa[eru], tate[matsuru], < 1298987686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tattoo[bu] < 1298987688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reading is used in which situation? It all depends on the < 1298987690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context." < 1298987692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1298987707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I wonder if luatex might fix that < 1298987712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, by using unicode internally, which I think it does < 1298987719 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like a lua version of tex? < 1298987726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it needs a better name < 1298987728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes; it's the Perl 6 of TeX < 1298987731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (La)TeX < 1298987732 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298987742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(albeit, not officially approved like Perl 6 is, but then LaTeX isn't either) < 1298987753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: basically it's the successor of pdfTeX... < 1298987769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it uses utf-8 input < 1298987780 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many of latex's character codes (including the ones in commonly used libraries such as amsmath) are in Unicode, I wonder? < 1298987792 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it's all of them < 1298987803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define character code :P < 1298987841 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros that produce exactly one character, from a typesetting point of view < 1298987849 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like \lambda < 1298987863 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which are "purely functional" in that it's always the same character no matter what < 1298988018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My impression was that at this point the vast majority weren't Unicode. < 1298988248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ais523_ was only referring to common characters < 1298988262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in the core is in Unicode, I believe... < 1298988272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as AMS goes, things like \hat and \widehat or whatever aren't < 1298988278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they make very little sense from a unicode point of view, well < 1298988281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\widehat does < 1298988288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it stretches over N glyphs < 1298988351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh, all this blabber about unicode, and he's gone and inserted blatantly non-Unicode symbols into this document < 1298988356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an icon of a flower) < 1298988363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For the English speaker, the word flower is linked with the memory or visual perception of an actual flower, ‘. This link goes both < 1298988363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ways, so that thinking about or seeing a ‘ the word flower comes < 1298988363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mind at once, just as speaking or reading the word flower calls < 1298988363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up an image, however vague, of a ‘." < 1298988414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah, thinking about a closing single quote DOES bring the word "flower" to mind! < 1298988472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY. < 1298988799 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure there are no flowers in Unicode < 1298988806 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some really weird things added to the astral planes recently < 1298988847 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, demogorgon says no < 1298988857 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bot in another channel) < 1298988989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are japanese displays higher-dpi than average? < 1298989000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to zoom this in so that kanji were anything but tiny squiggles of unreadability < 1298989062 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that some computer games that use kanji draw them at double the font size they use for kana, just so they're legible < 1298989087 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although kana are more common in computer games as they're typically marketed at children who may not know all the kanji used yet < 1298989253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jap kids must be pretty stupid, i knew every letter when i was 5 < 1298989261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder when my procrastination lobe will give up and start me learning the kana < 1298989274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well < 1298989275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start < 1298989277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1298989278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finish < 1298989290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly anticipating the hardest time :p < 1298989326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the Japanese do not use word spaces (except for children)" < 1298989333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: very stupid, they even forget to use the spacebar < 1298989338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they grow older < 1298989341 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298989368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1298989390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used all KINDS of spaces when i was a kiddo < 1298989422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits everyone with a   < 1298989430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:56:48 I need something to do ... Anybody have any ideas for someting (non-esolang-related) for me to implement? < 1298989434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Gregor's a noob :D < 1298989449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i keep insulting him w/ log lines for long enough it'll become a running gag and therefore acceptable < 1298989555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm insulting Gregor has been a long going gag anyway < 1298989558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do it all the time < 1298989569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah... but it's not a running gag just because you do it < 1298989572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because face it man < 1298989575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those would be some pretty weird running gags. < 1298989581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is our first line of defence. < 1298989595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that Gregor has one of the most stable brains there is, so as scientist we have to see if we can make him cry < 1298989607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1298989610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really good point < 1298989613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i killed your parents < 1298989622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slinks over to the observation chamber < 1298989782 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298989892 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1298990056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why d'ya need a preliminary name < 1298990090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wat < 1298990121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That information is available on a need-to-know basis < 1298990132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I logread, what more do you want! < 1298990186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't constitute a need < 1298990380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What if I ask the Make a Wish foundation? < 1298990442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they have the answer they'll surely give it < 1298990455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So that I can tell you if your preliminary name is already taken. :p < 1298990462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHAT ARE YOU EVEN THE TALKING ABOUT < 1298990475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (About 30-40% of registrations come without the preliminary name, though.) < 1298990486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:26 I see the early days of #esoteric were quite quiet < 1298990486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:44 no, the early days were just fine. < 1298990486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:57 the middle ages were quiet. < 1298990486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:49:38 all secular thought was suppressed. < 1298990547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fair enough I suppose :-P Can I do it privmsg-style or would that be too complicated < 1298990562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FINNS ARE WAY TOO SECRETIVE. < 1298990573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If fizzie wasn't an op I'd have you all banned for sliminess. < 1298990628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey no one's sharing with me :( < 1298990629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess you can, but then you don't get my canned-template "registration acknowledgement" email. < 1298990635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well yeah... but it's not a running gag just because you do it < 1298990635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1298990665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can always copy-paste it < 1298990670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hey i was like the official o ambassador for #esoteric < 1298990672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that false oklopol! < 1298990680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Deewiant: Ha, a SCHISM in the Finns. < 1298990682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I side with oklopol. < 1298990702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://p.zem.fi/ha5f < 1298990726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's non-automatical, that's why the ad-hoc format.) < 1298990732 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298990761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The link also reveals all the sordid details of what this was about. < 1298990764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you two are just elaborately trolling. < 1298990776 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298990779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the "course T-93.4400 AI tournament" doesn't even exist. < 1298990796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, good to know you're finally letting the world know about your, ehm, relationships... with goats. < 1298990797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have seen through our ruse. < 1298990809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LOGREADERS FROM A TIME WHERE P.ZEM.FI NO LONGER EXISTS: PAY ATTENTION.) < 1298990831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FUTUREGOOGLE: Heikki Kallasjoki goat legality of marrying a goat goat-human relations) < 1298990847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuoogle. < 1298990886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transaction completed. < 1298990894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMIT; < 1298990914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Transaction completed." -- Finn communication 101 < 1298990928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a logo saying "COMMIT;" in the side of a building on my regular bus route. < 1298990929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of "Hello", you say "Prepare to merge this information with your existing knowledge database." < 1298990943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of saying "How are you?", you say "". < 1298990953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*". < 1298991012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298991038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking Finnish with Deewiant is a really strange and somehow "wrong" feeling. < 1298991049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'td'be like speaking Finnish with oklopol. < 1298991050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also have asked you when I almost physically ran into you this morning but I didn't. < 1298991076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i'd speak finnish with fizzie irl < 1298991102 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: would it have been in English or Finnish? < 1298991111 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in Finnish except with lowercase letters and no full stops? < 1298991130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's so weird when spoken-spoken, just when written-spoken. < 1298991158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blinkenlichten. < 1298991158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written-spoken? like one of us writes and the other one speaks < 1298991162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how lack of uppercase applies to speech < 1298991174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno if i've ever seen oklopol speak in finnish < 1298991175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a monotonic prosody. < 1298991180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in #vjn < 1298991210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've demonstrated sentences not that rarely < 1298991216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's not talking < 1298991220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now, the bus.) < 1298991245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kyl m puhuu voin hei jos on kova tarvis kuulla totanoinniin < 1298991278 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kantsiiks hei puhuu jos kukaan ei tajuu mistään mitään < 1298991384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo oha toiki totta mut toisaalt ei tuu bannei ku ainoo oppi online tajuu kummiski :DD < 1298991409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :täääääääs ookan kaämaan :) < 1298991414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttt < 1298991445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to say that was rather obnoxious finnish < 1298991448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oikeestaanhan ei oo ketään oppii paikal ku hää meni just < 1298991455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what, mine? < 1298991456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, you broke the sequence. < 1298991457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was wonderful. < 1298991465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juu < 1298991470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Didn't I? :P < 1298991471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i mean mine < 1298991480 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you both did. < 1298991481 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298991493 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298991513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can't have a and in the same word < 1298991517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly < 1298991523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but of course < 1298991524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can < 1298991529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom can < 1298991530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanahelinä < 1298991534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a word < 1298991538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol you're not funny Deewiant. < 1298991547 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lol you're not funny"? < 1298991550 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a contradiction? < 1298991554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah, making up fake finnish words like that < 1298991559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, it's funny in like a really pathetic way! < 1298991562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it's funny that one isn't funny < 1298991564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1298991566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, nowadays people seem to use "lol" to indicate "not really funny" < 1298991572 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more or less the opposite of its actual meaning < 1298991573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant, although horrendously unfunny gets it right < 1298991576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose ka, and maan could all be words. < 1298991580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is < 1298991582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Compounds don't count. < 1298991584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two are < 1298991592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1298991601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good words < 1298991610 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1298991613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're words. < 1298991620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like "ka, lentv penis!" < 1298991647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That or as in myös < 1298991654 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kans) < 1298991659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your language even. < 1298991667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought that was always kaa < 1298991674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It usually is < 1298991677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them Swedes have some silly one-letter words. < 1298991693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yes, you mock _swedes_ after that insanity < 1298991699 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :variable < 1298991702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them Brits too < 1298991733 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we only have a and I < 1298991734 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as one-letter words < 1298991741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e said < 1298991745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'e* < 1298991753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *e < 1298991755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spivak, beyotch < 1298991758 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Agora uses e, and zzo38 seems to use o as a word, although I'm not entirely sure what it means < 1298991763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beyotch is the fourth single-letter word) < 1298991766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used o as a word too < 1298991768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means o < 1298991769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: O is in the Bible isn't it < 1298991777 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: probably not with the same meaning as zzo38, thouhg < 1298991779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 uses it to mean "O" even though it doesn't really mean O. < 1298991780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh. < 1298991782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both instances. < 1298991783 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possibly, it likely depends on the translation < 1298991786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 uses it to mean "Oh" even though it doesn't really mean oh. < 1298991791 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298991807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o is an old way of setting the "you" variable < 1298991807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"O, I get it now." < 1298991812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Was it so that Turku was one of your position distribution maxima? < 1298991817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That is what the dihistomic modulator is used for." < 1298991818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1298991828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylioppilaskyl atm < 1298991836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna come visit and clean my apartment < 1298991846 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey, that word has both a and ä in too < 1298991856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a compound < 1298991862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to find a wp article for "O" < 1298991865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe wiktionary would work < 1298991873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/o jesus christ < 1298991878 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think [[o]] would at least contain a link to it < 1298991883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interjection < 1298991883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1298991884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(archaic) (always capitalized) The English vocative particle, used before a pronoun or the name of a person or persons to mark direct address. < 1298991884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? -- Galatians 3:1 (King James version). < 1298991884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variant of oh. < 1298991892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: OK, so what zzo38 does is at least Wiktionary-approved, if bizarre. < 1298991896 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite the same thing as "oh" < 1298991896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' o is an old way of setting the "you" variable' is the definition of vocative < 1298991898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just told you < 1298991900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1298991906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i know < 1298991906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not now; but we'll be in the city for some hours on some day; forgot the specifics though. It was in April. < 1298991910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just getting the wiktionary srrrce < 1298991918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously it's in there, it's not that rare < 1298991934 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did tell you that zzo38 is always technically correct, if not in this reality, then in some other < 1298991980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: great, it's much faster if there's two of you < 1298991988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should allocate a bit more than two hours < 1298991995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: like one where insane phonetic spelling is the correct way to write English? < 1298992010 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298992018 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it's the correct way to write German < 1298992019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ("Old mesiges ar being crosed out") < 1298992047 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"crosed" is incorrect even with insane phonetic spelling, though < 1298992055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Then zzo38 is technically incorrect? < 1298992059 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it would indicate the o as long < 1298992064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: zzo actually said that. < 1298992070 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, he's just not using insane phonetic spelling, but spelling based on a different basis again < 1298992076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god. < 1298992087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You realise that everything anybody says is technically correct in a specific universe? < 1298992090 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably has phonetics involved, but likely other things too < 1298992093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for self-contradictory statements. < 1298992099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are correct only in inconsistent universes :P < 1298992116 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes; except that most people at least try to get that universe to match the one everyone else seems to be in < 1298992119 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 doesn't bother < 1298992126 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, he invents his own < 1298992129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: No they don't < 1298992140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just try and convince everyone else to start living in their own world < 1298992241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wait, why are you saying he? < 1298992247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have a single piece of evidence zzo38 is male < 1298992260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we do < 1298992264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we don't < 1298992274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was established, although I'm not sure what evidence that basis is on < 1298992275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not as concrete as a penis but come on < 1298992290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this is /zzo38/ we're talking about < 1298992293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't think it has been < 1298992305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps you are right < 1298992318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would be very surprised < 1298992326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you male or female? < 1298992328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: zzo38 is pretty surprising < 1298992332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not here. < 1298992337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, i don't care < 1298992417 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one issue is if you asked zzo38 about gender, you couldn't be certain he would be using the same definitions of "male" and "female" as everyone else does < 1298992436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he would tell us anyway. < 1298992437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just ask for a naked pic < 1298992449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier for everyone < 1298992454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's refused to tell us his age, and "Gender: Not Telling" --http://www.digitalmzx.net/forums/index.php?showuser=1941 < 1298992467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe he's God < 1298992502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be less surprised if he were god than if he were she < 1298992509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298992518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe she's god. < 1298992521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that may be true in a rather small amount < 1298992545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's have a conversation about someone else behind their back, like say... Gregor! < 1298992553 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did ais523 (no underscore) quit? < 1298992566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's just a connection drop; I hope nobody's stolen my laptop < 1298992571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:33:42 --- quit: ais523 (Remote host closed the connection) < 1298992576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time ago < 1298992592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: about uh < 1298992592 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was here as ais523 earlier today < 1298992600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, my client doesn't know when i joined in this window < 1298992606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert the time yourself :P < 1298992613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: incorrect < 1298992622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"today" in clog time, you have always been ais523_ < 1298992627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, look for yourself < 1298992628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/11.03.01 < 1298992628 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, clog time < 1298992641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what's this america thing, it's just clog time. < 1298992643 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you'd be using your own timezone... < 1298992650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i don't display timestamps :D < 1298992677 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like just a connection drop, it was being dodgy < 1298992681 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally it stays up while I'm not using it < 1298992687 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bizarre, come to think of it < 1298992707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just leave your laptop lying around opened? :D < 1298992715 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but in a locked room < 1298992720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a "manwiki" (less gay than it sounds, I mean a wiki based on man pages) < 1298992744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha faggypedia < 1298992804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno if that'd actually be a good thing < 1298992809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man pages are pretty well written when they exist < 1298992864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking not to edit the man pages directly, but maybe be able to insert comments in between paragraphs ... things like "Note that malloc(0) has different behavior on different OSes" on the malloc page. Keep the base there, but add comments ... or something like that. < 1298992880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wouldn't POSIXWiki be better for that :P < 1298992901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly glibc's man pages are more useful/well-written than POSIX. < 1298993011 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BSD's are better still < 1298993022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298993027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298993027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298993044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Phantom_Hoover < 1298993050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: are they? I haven't seen BSD libc documentation < 1298993054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably have, in OS X < 1298993064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott. < 1298993065 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know first-hand, this is secondhand < 1298993073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD fans normally praise it over man page quality compared to Linux < 1298993083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD fans praise everything about BSD over Linux. < 1298993089 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298993096 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that in particular, and I wouldn't expect them to focus on something BSD was bad at < 1298993118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: they don't think BSD's bad at anything :P < 1298993326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where's NoGNU/Linux? < 1298993366 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298993386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl < 1298993445 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of reverse Debian GNU/kFreeBSD? < 1298993477 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298993478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Kitten is basically NoGNU/Linux. < 1298993490 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is Android, come to think of it < 1298993502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely counts < 1298993509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a Unix < 1298993514 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1298993521 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still using Linux as the kernel < 1298993529 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you have to be a UNIX to get slash notation < 1298993553 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems perfect for explaining that you have something other than coreutils above the kernel, such as a JVM-alike < 1298993573 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going back to ais523, these students seem unlikely to turn up now, and it's their fault they missed it if they do < 1298993574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1298993583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: heh < 1298993586 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1298993850 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298995018 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230230162.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298995042 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298996366 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm < 1298996375 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, Android is a sort of NoGNU/Linux, innit? < 1298996385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so is Android, come to think of it < 1298996393 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm quoting that. < 1298996407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't realize I was quoting the same phrasology in reverse :P < 1298996408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rite < 1298996413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have said "IS a sort". < 1298996414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or *is* < 1298996417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**is*. < 1298996419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have /any/ GNU software at all? < 1298996431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaaaaaaaaybe? < 1298996435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so... < 1298996451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-ais523.aspx <--- ontopic < 1298996459 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically it has busybox, doesn't have glibc ... still uses GCC and binutils, but those don't ship with it (bleh) < 1298996466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interview with ais523, this will be EXCITING < 1298996467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-Keymaker.aspx if it hasn't been linked here yet < 1298996471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's that daniel temkin guy < 1298996473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the heck is he anyway < 1298996482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some random blogger who happens to be interested in esolangs, I think < 1298996489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly Velato for some reason < 1298996491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he invented Velato < 1298996493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1298996501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that would explain his interest < 1298996518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He (Keymaker is anonymous but identifies as male)" < 1298996529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANK YOU FOR THE ELABORATION ON HOW THIS IS POSSIBLE, I AM NEW TO THESE INTER NETS AND AM UNFAMILIAR WITH ITS CULTURES < 1298996557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least keymaker capitalises brainfuck right < 1298996565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I, I think < 1298996570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we both use capital B at the start of a sentence < 1298996584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is anonymous but identifies as male/female < 1298996584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daniel Temkin gets it right too < 1298996589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: "* ais523 [...] his/her") < 1298996591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my real name is available < 1298996602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "Alex" isn't a particularly male or female name either < 1298996602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is not anonymous but identifies as male/female < 1298996612 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298996633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I find it quite surprising that Keymaker isn't a programmer < 1298996663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that surprising, I suppose; "real" programming languages aren't all that interesting compared to esolangs < 1298996690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298996693 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298996694 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what's interesting is analyzing code that takes advantages of the pitfalls and errors in "real" languages. < 1298996701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some are < 1298996704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: not really? < 1298996712 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I find it fascinating < 1298996730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : although "Alex" isn't a particularly male or female name either // The sound "Alex" isn't specifically male or female, but AFAIK the spelling "Alex" is? < 1298996744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to what < 1298996748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, I've met female Alexes with the same spelling < 1298996755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spelling Alix is specifically female, but very rare < 1298996769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually the kind of people who name their daughters "Alex" are also the kind of people who name their daughters "Alix" or "Alyx" or "Ayliughx" < 1298996773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Alex is much more common even among female people named with a variant < 1298996783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ++ temkin for referring to you as the C-INTERCAL maintainer :P < 1298996784 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make Alex not ping me. < 1298996788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ayliughx. Brilliant. < 1298996793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: TOO BAD. < 1298996796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: it pings you? < 1298996801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I can make a guess as to your name < 1298996805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not gender < 1298996807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait wait let me guess < 1298996808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALEX < 1298996810 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's my real name and I'm male. < 1298996815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My mom teaches kindergarten. Last year she had a student whose name was "Shyanne" < 1298996817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I don't have to guess < 1298996818 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298996819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Shyanne. < 1298996824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst name ever? Quite probably. < 1298996837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you pronounce that? < 1298996843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shy anne < 1298996868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shayanne mountain facility < 1298996876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Cheyenne, but spelled by a retard. < 1298996882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me that was funny < 1298996915 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's even worse is when a christian family names their son Krys. < 1298996954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kryst the sayvoir < 1298996960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zchghe < 1298996979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure which of those words is "correctly" spelled as "zchghe" :P < 1298996997 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sayvior, obviously. < 1298997046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The < 1298997056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my new name: Ghudjraieoughaiouxrh < 1298997065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ghudjraieoughaio < 1298997066 0 :Ghudjraieoughaio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DARN < 1298997068 0 :Ghudjraieoughaio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1298997072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced "Gregor" < 1298997077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *"Dave" < 1298997094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Qrthlieffm < 1298997112 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Alyk_Meigatzroyd < 1298997149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavens to Meigatzroyd! < 1298997170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced "betsy" < 1298997199 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298997200 0 :Alyk_Meigatzroyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I was aiming for more of a "Dan". < 1298997215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "danmaku" < 1298997234 0 :Alyk_Meigatzroyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say danmaku? That also pings me. < 1298997246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES ANYTHING NOT PING YOU < 1298997256 0 :Alyk_Meigatzroyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actuallym "anything" does ping me. < 1298997258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waaaaay ahead of you. < 1298997262 0 :Alyk_Meigatzroyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually,* < 1298997278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alyk_Meigatzroyd: Srsly? :P < 1298997286 0 :Alyk_Meigatzroyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1298997358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CAN I INTERVIEW YOU < 1298997392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I can date this precisely with the Shiro mention < 1298997482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1298997642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, Unlambda has an i combinator that's equivalent to ``skk, but the language is much mathematically neater with it included, and it feels like it should be part of the language." < 1298997646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Define neater :P < 1298997679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it vastly reduces the size of most combinators. < 1298997802 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298997965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the easiest ways to contact me are via IRC (I'm usually on #esoteric on the Freenode IRC network, irc.freenode.net, as "ais523"); email (if you're logged in on this wiki and have an email address verified, visit Special:Emailuser/Ais523; note that using that form will show me your email address, so that I can reply); and wiki talk page (edit User talk:ais523, and I'll see your message and be able to send replies via your own talk page, or < 1298997965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : on mine if you don't have an account). < 1298997968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your ais-nesting is showing < 1298998235 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298998305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1298998321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1298998328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1298998342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1298998346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1298998348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1298998361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1298998390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1298998397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof < 1298998495 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298998507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: your ais-nesting is showing < 1298998509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nesting? < 1298998519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ais523's patented English style < 1298998526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT ais523 thinks in infix Lisp < 1298998542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1298998546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. expr := (expr* op expr*) | obj < 1298998561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then that gets converted into parentheses, semicolons, commas, sentences, paragraphs < 1298998734 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298998741 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298998778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "It was nice to see my language Velato appear next to some of the old favorites like INTERCAL, brainfuck, and Whitespace." --Temkin < 1298998780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, inventory < 1298998782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inventor < 1298998862 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a very inventory person. < 1298998941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a paper crane out of a sweet wrapper today. < 1298998976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: he carries _everything_ with him, i take < 1298999004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i < 1298999104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 + i, a complex combination < 1298999136 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523, 1) < 1298999164 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, it seems like only recently does "inventory" mean "the stuff you're carrying". < 1298999287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's from text adventure games, obviously. < 1298999293 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1298999294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "> inv" produces an INVENTORY of what you were carrying. < 1298999305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which caused the obvious linguistic evolution among nerds. < 1298999322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because object X is "not in your inventory", which is obviously ambiguous in the right way. < 1298999365 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, only recently does "account" mean "electronic record of a person". It used to just mean "record of money possessed or owed". < 1298999410 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or "description of what happened".) < 1298999668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:23:28 I forget, do you enjoy functional programming Pikhq ? < 1298999668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:24:01 Sukoshi: Meh. < 1298999673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:24:11 I'm more of an imperative thinker. < 1298999677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: l0lz < 1298999692 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is Josiah Worcester, right? < 1298999709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1298999710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298999715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He makes Worcestershire sauce. < 1298999724 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the shire named after him? < 1298999730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298999748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving that pikhq is a hobbit < 1298999761 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worcestershire has been around for quite a while. How old is pikhq, anyway? < 1298999764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's a bad hobbit you've got there. < 1298999769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Older than Worcestershire. < 1298999843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worcestershire was established in antiquity, apparently. < 1298999848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1298999855 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So pikhq is pre-antiquitous? < 1298999859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well we have to do something when it's 40 comics until next DMM hobbituary < 1298999872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1298999944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was around in the 7th century, at least. < 1298999991 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: impossible. Oxford is the oldest thing in the world. < 1299000004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FRIEND AT OXFORD CONFIRMS. < 1299000017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, oh, so you're an Oxfordist, a believer in a breakaway sect of Last Thursdayism? < 1299000018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, Oxford is older than time itself. < 1299000032 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oxford is exactly 900 years old, which is the oldest that anything can possibly be. < 1299000033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Shut up, everybody knows you're a Cambridgean shithead. < 1299000040 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once something gets that old, it stops getting older. < 1299000042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how? < 1299000045 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, unless it's Oxford, it vanishes. < 1299000049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU THINK CAMBRIDGE IS OLDER THAN OXFORD. < 1299000052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I like this theory. < 1299000057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't say that! < 1299000060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: So will the Earth eventually disappear leaving only Oxford floating in space? < 1299000064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WE ALL KNOW YOU THINK IT < 1299000094 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only if Earth reaches 900 years old. It might stop sooner than that. < 1299000103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: wat. < 1299000143 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carbon dating has shown Earth to be about 850 years old. Since it appears that Earth was around when Oxford was founded, most people believe that Earth has stopped getting older. < 1299000155 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving Oxford as the oldest thing in the world. < 1299000179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course. < 1299000183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:02:17 * oerjan will propel things into the age of Aquarius for food. < 1299000183 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others believe that Earth is actually older than Oxford, but it's exempt from the disappearing law, since Earth is not exactly "in the world". < 1299000188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that offer still good? < 1299000193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good that earth knows its limitations < 1299000212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'M PROPELLING AS WE SPEAK < 1299000223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very slowly, mind you < 1299000225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[oerjan's motor revs up < 1299000227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*up] < 1299000244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will you reach your destination in december 2012? < 1299000259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what the destination is < 1299000270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one told me yet < 1299000277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cincinnati. < 1299000283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the age of aquarius, no? < 1299000285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: same thing < 1299000289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh _that_ < 1299000298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, Cincinnati is the place to be when the world ends. < 1299000512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: (elliottt?) damn you for stealing my name < 1299000513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: every single message you send (or that is sent to you) fuckin’ hilights me! D: < 1299000519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, revenge for him being an irritating prick. < 1299000761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I’ve been very prolific on Freenode for half a decade now < 1299000762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALF < 1299000763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1299000764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DECADE < 1299000963 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299001044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299001047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my design question in #haskell has been met with the resounding response of zero people < 1299001050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, it falls to oerjan < 1299001066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've been thinking about how to structure a certain pattern of code in my program. It's an interpreter. When any instruction fails in a specific way, I halt the execution of the rest of the instruction, run an error handler, and go immediately on to the next instruction, but *without* reverting the state changes caused by the failing instruction. I don't need any kind of error messages -- there is one and only one way to handle "an erro < 1299001067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r occurred" < 1299001067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : . In practice, there are usually three ways this error is caused: (1) An IO error fails. I have a special liftIO variant for this, which catches IO exceptions, and throws my own special exception type with the current state, where it is restored by the handler and continued with. This is very ugly. (2) A map lookup or similar yielding Nothing, so that my code looks like "case x of { Nothing -> handleErr; Just x -> do ... long stuff ...} < 1299001069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :". The inde < 1299001071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ntation rapidly piles on and it gets very ugly. And (3), basically the same as (2), is "if bad then handleErr else (lots and lots of stuff)". I'm wondering what the most elegant way to handle this in Haskell in my monad stack would be. Possibly having the instruction-executing actions be "MaybeT MyMonad" rather than "MyMonad", and handling the Nothing? Basically, I want to be able to have this kind of failure support without nesting my < 1299001078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code to inf < 1299001080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inity and writing lots of boilerplate every time I want a Just. < 1299001082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps the continuation monad would help? < 1299001084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: enjoy < 1299001191 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be because your question has the coherence of a five year old's question about how trees work < 1299001287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1299001321 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do carrots work < 1299001349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1299001353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why is the sky blue? < 1299001355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IO error occurs. < 1299001386 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299001474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually see elliottcable all over the damned place :P < 1299001500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then you'll know he's incredibly irritating. < 1299001508 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299001519 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I said "see", not "talk to" :P < 1299001525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe he's improved in the last year or so, but seriously, he tarnished the name "elliott", and that's coming from me, not exactly the least irritating person around.) < 1299001546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He's a major Apple fanboi, lives in Alaska and votes Republican -- this goes up to likes Sarah Palin < 1299001553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing nothing :P < 1299001668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FIGURED IT OUT YET < 1299001676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what. < 1299001685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He actually -likes- Palin. < 1299001688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1299001695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm pretty sure he voted/would vote for her. < 1299001701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he's actually said "I LIKE SARAH PALIN", but yeah. < 1299001721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway he's pretty much the worst in every respect any person could possibly be the worst; he maximises worseness. < 1299001749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt that somehow. < 1299001750 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-194-162.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299001756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha. < 1299001758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ye of so little faith. < 1299001761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has he badmouthed Haskell for being too mathematical? < 1299001767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1299001781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He maximises terribleness in far, far more subtle ways. < 1299001806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agonisingly he's actually been here before. But he was so boring that nobody paid any attention. < 1299001922 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... I LIKE SARAH PALIN ... < 1299001930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1299001935 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately: < 1299001941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I LIKE SARAH PALIN < 1299001944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1299001951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1299001988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcable is also in every JS-related channel btw. < 1299002004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz mixing JS and Haskell = classy < 1299002090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, he's a Web 2.0 Ruby fag. < 1299002146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HEY GUYS THEY ADDED RUBY TO HTML5 " < 1299002190 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299002223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: FIGURED IT OUT YET <-- um the "argh" meant basically that my brain refused to try < 1299002229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :< < 1299002234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but i gave TWO possible solutions! < 1299002273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programs i write in haskell are usually _not_ heavy in monad stacks. < 1299002314 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is because oerjan is better than you, and you should feel bad. < 1299002350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my monad stack is just StateT IO, sheesh < 1299002436 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1299002643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well is it appropriate for #haskell-in-depth do you think, maybe people will listen there ;D < 1299002645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1299002649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably too old to know that :D < 1299002682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i've never been there < 1299002844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #haskell-so-deep-ooh-yeah-baby-map-my-functor < 1299002887 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down N/A: 32k+16k+1k to Japan, 1k+256 to India, 1k to Malaysia, 64k to Australia, 512+/32 to Indonesia, 4k to New Caledonia, /32 to . < 1299002990 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: nice < 1299003044 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only allocations that has is 2x/32s, diffrent holders, both allocated this year. < 1299003058 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... From APNIC that is. < 1299003134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think that should be #haskell-zygohistomorphic-prepromorphisms < 1299003208 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1299003220 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think it should be #oerjan < 1299003283 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP is reserved country code (and the meaning it usually has would be pretty insane for present purposes). < 1299003483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes how Ilari doesn't actually mention which country it is < 1299003593 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why < 1299003619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think ap is reserved for any particular country, it's just reserved as a two-letter domain for that purpose. < 1299003695 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1299003847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In addition, the ISO 3166/MA will not use the following alpha-2 codes at the present stage, as they are used for international intellectual property organizations in WIPO Standard ST.3: AP: African Regional Industrial Property Organization" < 1299004029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What's 512 in moonspeak < 1299004087 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1299004096 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299004102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, can I get your nasm-mode again? < 1299004127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It most likely still is wherever I put it. < 1299004137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zem.fi/~fis/nasm-mode.el perhaps. < 1299004149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1299004150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS! < 1299004159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking. < 1299004187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's half the world. (There are 714 files there. Should clean up some day.) < 1299004198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or send us a directory listing. < 1299004207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnnno. < 1299004216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be SECRETS. < 1299004256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You Finns have way too fucking many secrets. < 1299004406 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not as good as having way too many fucking secrets) < 1299004492 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299004599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revelation of the day: "priveledge" makes my blood curdle < 1299004624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :driveledge < 1299004667 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299004669 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.187.237 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299004791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299004849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey olsner, link me to your protected mode thing again :P < 1299004979 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299005002 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299005065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it. < 1299005271 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299005274 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299005616 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1299005674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't laugh, clearly what 512 byte forth floppies need is protected mode code. < 1299005718 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a newer version of that code in my git repo... but I think the changes to that part of it are all related to long mode < 1299005763 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up to 2.7k or something nowadays < 1299005805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you REALLY need 512 bytes for Forth? :P < 1299005810 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@184.56.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299005812 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1299005831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1299005844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's actually 510 bytes you have... and seriously, 512 bytes is tiny. < 1299005850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¸^A$Í^Uú^O^A^V0|^O À^L^A^O"Àê6|^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@ÿÿ^@^@^@<9a>Ï^@ÿÿ^@^@^@<92>Ï^@^W^@^Xü^@^@ôëþ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^ < 1299005851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^ < 1299005851 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1299005852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@Uª < 1299005853 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1299005857 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think over a hundred of the bytes go to getting into protected mode < 1299005861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ That's more than the entire boot sector space. < 1299005864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I know, I'm just being obnoxious :P < 1299005865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More because of the ^@ escape :P) < 1299005881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 bytes IS pretty darn small. < 1299005881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah... i'm doing everything the imperfect way to cram it all in < 1299005882 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not even usable by the forth part < 1299005885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a20 via bios and the like < 1299005886 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you writing a boot sector? < 1299005892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: yep, to run Forth < 1299005900 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :-) < 1299005905 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth in the boot sector? < 1299005910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIBS < 1299005920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Yep. < 1299005923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: It's not going to be easy X-D < 1299005950 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I think my Forth is about 2K < 1299005959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: In what, Redcode? < 1299005964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86? < 1299005972 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 8086 (and soon in MSP430) < 1299005974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth in Redcode, lol < 1299005978 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can't be *that* hard, can it? < 1299005982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it in flat protected mode because having instructions to futz with the segment register doesn't sound fun. < 1299005992 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://corewar.co.uk/assembly/forth.htm < 1299005994 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299006001 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no-one does segmentation in protected mode < 1299006015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I mean, no protection at all. < 1299006022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Outstanding. < 1299006025 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, paging disabled? < 1299006025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Dude, a Forth requires a compiler, a linked-list dictionary with built-in words like @ and ! built in... < 1299006027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1299006034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Oh, and I'll need to handle keyboard input. < 1299006037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the actual interface. < 1299006042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since I'm in protected-mode, no BIOS to do it for me. < 1299006047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr this is going to be anything but easy. < 1299006050 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, paging is a bit irksome to set up, at least compared to not doing it < 1299006069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's Forth, you should be able to poke to random locations and read it back later :D < 1299006078 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's only a subset. One day I might code the full ANS standard in Redcode ;-) < 1299006079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like typing into a commodore 64, except...forth, and x86 < 1299006091 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write the paging in forth after that if you like < 1299006097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: PRECISELY! < 1299006101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna have some kind of machine code instruction < 1299006105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: + [ 39847349538495349759834 asm ] ; < 1299006119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so i'll probably only do hex literals :P < 1299006128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: hmm, have you got a link to your x86 forth? < 1299006144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like your stack notation on the underload page, btw < 1299006183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why bother with hex even, just write the bytes directly with some kind of escaping mechanism? < 1299006197 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not online because I'm still playing with it. < 1299006197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the hardest thing to fit with Forth will be the initial dictionary. < 1299006225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: No fair, I wanna steal your code :) < 1299006226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Precisely. < 1299006239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Can't do that on a keyboard without extra code to handle that X-D < 1299006244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: With an asm word, you don't need niceties such as +. < 1299006256 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see eForth and Jones Forth. They're pretty easy to understand. < 1299006257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In fact, even @ and ! can be defined later, though I'd really rather they weren't. < 1299006263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Yeah, but jonesforth is really big. < 1299006275 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, that's true... < 1299006279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, at the bare minimum you need, like, :, [, ], and some asm instruction. < 1299006295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually I hope to avoid [ and ], I think colorForth has no immediate words, which will be simpler to do than the traditional way. < 1299006295 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just don't name the asm word "asm" :P < 1299006307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was thinking I'd call it "x86" :P < 1299006308 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, keyboard handling might be messy if you do everything yourself ... it's not as if the keyboard sends ascii characters < 1299006321 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, give it one character, that saves you two bytes ;) < 1299006337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, not if I pack names into 1.5 words! < 1299006349 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not code top down from the outer interpreter and only code words actually required to get it working. < 1299006364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well maybe i'll just index the dictionary with scancodes! < 1299006371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Top down Forth? < 1299006373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1299006381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Forth the *definition* of bottom-up? :) < 1299006388 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a Forth that stores word names as the first two characters plus the length. That might save some space. < 1299006398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm going to get into protected mode before I start on the Forth. And maybe get keyboard input going. < 1299006402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Two chars? < 1299006405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice uniqueness guarantee :P < 1299006413 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two chars PLUS LENGTH! < 1299006453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose every bit you save by clever packing costs you many more than one bit in writing an unpacking algo :P < 1299006477 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code for NEXT is called at the end of every machine code word. Maybe use INT 3 for NEXT. < 1299006482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the GDT is uncomfortably big. < 1299006485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can just not load any gdt at all. < 1299006487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner the expert! < 1299006496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: That would require enabling interrupts and setting up an interrupt table thing. < 1299006499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := WAY TOO MUCH CODE :) < 1299006511 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can overwrite the GDT after loading segment registers from it < 1299006520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking something like < 1299006532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, SOMETHING < 1299006537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop eax < 1299006540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, SOMETHING < 1299006540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp [eax] < 1299006542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for NEXT < 1299006549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe < 1299006558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov eax, [SOMETHING] < 1299006561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtract from SOMETHING < 1299006562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp [eax] < 1299006563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be shorter. < 1299006570 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik the only way to get proper values into the segment registers is to have a GDT to load them from < 1299006573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Can't I just have a 0 base, 0 limit GDT table?! :P < 1299006589 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, but then you can't load anything from it < 1299006601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So I'd have a completely empty memory space? :P < 1299006622 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you'd still have the segment values as they were given to your from real mode < 1299006630 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have like 5x64k addressible < 1299006644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that sounds good enough to me! < 1299006659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's 640 sectors, after all < 1299006667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait isn't it 640k, not 320k? < 1299006673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1280 sectors < 1299006686 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sectors are small < 1299006707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so it's 10x64k < 1299006708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 6x < 1299006709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*5x < 1299006710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHEESP < 1299006717 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because your addressible memory space is limited by the number of segment registers you have < 1299006746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one has a limit of 64k left-over from real mode, and can point to different places in the first 1MB < 1299006772 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't load them with nice protected-mode values unless you have a GDT to load from < 1299006775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1299006780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if < 1299006781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tricked the cpu < 1299006785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in letting me load my segment registers < 1299006787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without creating a gdt < 1299006791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*into letting < 1299006815 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299006846 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu is really picky about not letting you access the useful (invisible) part of the segment-register state < 1299006873 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is/was an undocumented instruction for loading all state, including the shadow state, from memory < 1299006889 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt that ends up shorter than setting up a gdt < 1299007010 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was pointless. < 1299007022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: maybe it won't fault like the gdt is doing :D < 1299007029 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299007041 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons that I'd rather not talk about, I got referred to a psychiatrist to gauge my level of "disability" from autism... < 1299007077 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What this actually consisted of was the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, or as it is more commonly known, an IQ test. < 1299007081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshht, loser, I relayed EVERY DETAIL of the unit and you won't even write us a novel on the channel! < 1299007113 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, fine, fine. < 1299007131 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was strongly encouraged by my parents to apply for Supplemental Disability Income from Social Security. < 1299007134 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect the opcode simply means a completely different thing on modern cpus < 1299007135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait what was the iq result, tarded out of 200? < 1299007137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOUGHT SO < 1299007142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1299007144 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dunno, just took it. < 1299007155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what, lgdt? < 1299007158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in qemu? < 1299007159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1299007161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, loadall < 1299007178 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But judging from how I completed sections of it, and the test is designed so that you only do as much of each section as you are capable... < 1299007207 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, my *intelligence* is not in doubt by anyone even vaguely sane. < 1299007214 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hell of a lot of other things, perhaps, but not that! < 1299007283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completed WHOLE SECONDS < 1299007284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SECTIONS < 1299007336 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you failed to emulate human behavior (which would be failing the test), you are clearly very badly disabled by your autism < 1299007344 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the portions of the test, curiously enough, is actually noted to be performed *significantly better* by autistics. < 1299007362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: CLEARLY < 1299007364 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even those who are incapable of, say, speech. < 1299007387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe they're looking for a HIGH score :P < 1299007396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You did way too fucking well at this, you're probably autistic." < 1299007401 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1299007409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so wait, why can't i just pop random shit into the segment registers < 1299007424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "Dude, the test involved arranging blocks into certain patterns for SIX HOURS. You completed ALL of them." < 1299007433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here's your money." < 1299007455 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is the test that autistics perform better than normal, actually. < 1299007462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1299007463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOLD YOU < 1299007469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many hours was it < 1299007474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mov cs, foo means "look up index foo in the GDT and load the information into the shadow part of CS, also set the visible part of CS to foo" < 1299007480 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 hour for the whole thing. < 1299007486 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the visible part is a useless index in protected mode < 1299007494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, could I do that in real mode put poke the right things in so i get a nice protected mode segment? i suppose not < 1299007499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I < 1299007553 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It seems to me that you actually *could* use this IQ test as a gauge of autism. "Performance IQ" should be significantly higher than "Verbal IQ". < 1299007556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, when you do mov cs, foo in real mode, that means "set the shadow part of CS to base foo*16 and limit 64k" < 1299007564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this shit is laaame < 1299007568 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limt 64k makes it suck < 1299007582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because LOADALL did not perform any checks on the validity of the data loaded into processor registers, it was possible to load a processor state which could not be normally entered, such as using real mode (PE=0) together with paging (PG=1) on 386 class CPUs[3]." < 1299007588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: real mode + paging, best thing ever? < 1299007608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, loadall's table takes way too many bytes :P < 1299007608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could get unreal mode without paging, probably more useful for your case < 1299007619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i don't actually load an idt < 1299007624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably bad, isn't it? < 1299007631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you not actually need one of you keep interrupts off < 1299007631 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Real mode + paging" is 286 protected mode... < 1299007666 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Waitwaitwait, loadall could get you actual real mode with actual paging? < 1299007669 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking. Awesome. < 1299007673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1299007678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a 386 only :P < 1299007698 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with interrupts off, you only need an IDT if you cause faults < 1299007706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so don't do that unless you have an IDT :P) < 1299007740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1299007740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299007741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp 0:prot < 1299007743 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you want an IDT to get keyboard interrupts anyway? < 1299007748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm assuming that the bios sets the segments right for tht < 1299007749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1299007751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it? :D < 1299007760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, keyboard interrupts... can't you just talk to the keyboard port? < 1299007783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an attempted jump into protected mode? the bios does *not* set up the right kind of CS for that :P < 1299007829 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(erase that, that makes no sense since a far jump sets CS anyway) < 1299007829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well why not!!!! < 1299007840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm right < 1299007844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so jmp 0:prot is ok then1 < 1299007847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then! < 1299007849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RITE? < 1299007882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fixed my stupid bug and it still doesn't work, i hate how that happens < 1299007889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OH! this is it!" "or nrot" < 1299007890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or not < 1299007945 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 0 is a special selector, so I don't think that works < 1299007987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why's it special < 1299007989 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much of that is actually validated, but the first entry in the GDT is reserved because the null selector is reserved < 1299007990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want the flatness < 1299007994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the flatness < 1299007998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299007998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait < 1299008000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/657234/53d3f5ea07972cd7b02b27b030a5b22e652d2726 < 1299008010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what segment do you start it at there :D < 1299008017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks to me like 0... < 1299008018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1299008020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1299008022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I need is < 1299008024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp index_of_segment:foo < 1299008025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1299008027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : define_descriptor 0xffff,0,0,RX_ACCESS,0xcf,0 < 1299008028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1299008049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i make a label to it koed i want to jmp to (koed-gdt):prot < 1299008050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1299008051 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's 8, which is what code_seg is equ'd to < 1299008054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolz < 1299008065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, works < 1299008078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you avoid specifying the null segment somehow i wonder :) < 1299008079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So glad I've never written boot sector code >_> < 1299008096 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* that you can store anything in there really < 1299008125 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you end up reading the entry for a selector you can't load anyway < 1299008180 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299008225 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299008381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299008459 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently you are free to load the null selector, but as soon as you use it you'll get a #GP < 1299008474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what if i trap the gp and ignore it! < 1299008520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're stuck with ignoring GP:s and retrying a faulting instruction for ever < 1299008538 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you skip the instructions that fault, a program that fails to do a lot < 1299008538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: sounds good to me < 1299008546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes null segment < 1299008548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdt equ koed-8 < 1299008554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the gdt need to be aligned 4? < 1299008581 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1299008583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, can you not have a segment that's +rwx? < 1299008588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really need two identical +rw and +rx ones? < 1299008656 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's really a bit that says "Code" or "Data" segment, and that you can only run code from code segments < 1299008669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but can you poke data in code segments? < 1299008670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, segment can't be RWX. Because only code segments can be executable and only data segments can be writable. < 1299008678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lame. < 1299008689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: does that apply to original x86 or only modern things? < 1299008691 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you poke in a different segment that happens to share memory with the code segment :) < 1299008699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :386 that is < 1299008700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but that's _extra_ _bytes_ < 1299008711 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just xor with 8 after loading cs, then load ds < 1299008731 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* that should work :) < 1299008735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: err, but it still has to be in my gdt, doesn't it? < 1299008736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1299008740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use one segment < 1299008741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modify it? < 1299008745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you SURE that's legal :D < 1299008750 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299008760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but err < 1299008762 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/legal/working/ < 1299008768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well right < 1299008778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least appiled to original x86. On modern things, I don't even recall if you have to define segments for ordinary segments. < 1299008778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so er wait < 1299008781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you load cs again < 1299008781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1299008783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov cs, 8 < 1299008785 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fairly well-defined when the segments are reloaded, because everyone does weird shit that relies on old shadow state being left < 1299008826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prot: mov cs, seg < 1299008827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xor [rw], 8 < 1299008827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, seg < 1299008829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byootiful < 1299008829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299008830 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well defined" is so much different from "defined well" :) < 1299008832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that xor prolly isn't valid < 1299008848 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299008849 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell not? :D < 1299008865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well x86 is generally a dick about what you can dereference < 1299008870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd expect to have to move rw into eax first :) < 1299008886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what are es, fs, gs, ss again :) < 1299008910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my gdtr is in my gdt < 1299008912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that... legal? :D < 1299008916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdtr: dw gdt_end-gdt-1 ; limit < 1299008916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd gdt ; base < 1299008916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdt equ segp-8 < 1299008916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seg equ segp-gdt < 1299008916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segp: dw 0xffff < 1299008929 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, nice < 1299008929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just assume it is! < 1299008950 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a bootsector writing contest last year... http://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=170511#p170511 < 1299008963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299008970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are es, fs, gs, ss data segments? < 1299008980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, stack segment, "extra segment", general purpose segments < 1299008986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, they should all be data segments basically < 1299008994 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, all data segments < 1299009014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is "mov ax, LIT; mov [defgs]s, ax" shorter than "mov [defgs]s, LIT"? :-P < 1299009043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... i can probably leave fs and gs unset, can't I? < 1299009047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed es < 1299009056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, well, the basic Forth won't use it! < 1299009059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*them! < 1299009070 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es is used by string instructions, so is useful to have pointing to the same as ds < 1299009097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the stack need to be in ss? :D < 1299009118 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the stack instructions use the ss segment :) < 1299009120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is no "mov segreg, immediate" at all; it's just mov segreg, reg16/mem16. < 1299009214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, okey. < 1299009226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But fs and gs I can neglect :P < 1299009241 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unless you find a use for them < 1299009254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough bytes to find uses. < 1299009321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixth.s:14: error: expression syntax error < 1299009323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :/ < 1299009324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I define seg later < 1299009329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ES is I guess only used implicitly by the ES:DI pair of the string instructions, so you can ignore that too if you don't use MOVS/STOS/SCAS (LODS uses DS:SI). Of course if you're saving bytes, the string instructions themselves often do that. < 1299009335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless seg is a keyword or whatever < 1299009383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEG's a NASM operator, yes. < 1299009383 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299009394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It returns the segment of the argument. < 1299009401 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can save one byte by loading the immediate in 16-bit mode before jumping into 32-bit < 1299009408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i like how you don't highlight it :))) < 1299009412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah just shift the blame < 1299009414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fizzie < 1299009434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's the much more readable "sg" < 1299009435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D < 1299009472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prot: xor byte [rw], 8 < 1299009478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if xor word or whatever is shorter than xor byte :D < 1299009481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can add it to the nasm-named-operators list; actually I feel like I already did this once, maybe the copy is old. (Or maybe I just thought I should.) < 1299009484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S POSSIBLE < 1299009509 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: check the output in a disassembler, and/or ask for a listing file from nasm < 1299009528 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the immediate is obviously one byte larger in word form < 1299009536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1299009564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 57 bytes < 1299009566 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the byte form might use a special byte-opcode, while the word-form in 32-bit mode might end up using a operand size prefix < 1299009566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should optimise that :) < 1299009596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lgdt [gdtr] < 1299009596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299009603 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299009604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you lgdt something that's not [foo] then? < 1299009605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1299009607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lgdt a register :-P < 1299009610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST THINKIN' OUT LOUD HERE < 1299009630 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also try the btr or btc instruction instead of xor < 1299009644 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bts, I forgot if you're setting the bit or clearing it < 1299009681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i can't use ndisasm olsner :/ < 1299009682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1299009684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i do -b 32 < 1299009689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the 32-bit parts to disassembly correctly < 1299009692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00007C16 EA1B7C08008035 jmp dword 0x3580:0x87c1b < 1299009692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00007C1D 367C00 ss jl 0x7c20 < 1299009692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00007C20 0008 add [eax],cl < 1299009692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00007C22 8ED8 mov ds,ax < 1299009692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00007C24 8EC0 mov es,ax < 1299009693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets out of sync < 1299009699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; fs and gs aren't set < 1299009701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prot: xor byte [rw], 8 < 1299009701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, ax < 1299009702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov es, ax < 1299009702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the relevant snippet < 1299009705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the previous 16-bit code < 1299009706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can ask for the listing file, though. < 1299009714 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the -e flag to ignore the prefix then < 1299009715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: eh? :P < 1299009730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I dunno whether I'm setting it or clearing it :-D < 1299009732 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I told him about the listing file first! :P < 1299009738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm ... -l foo.lst or something. < 1299009755 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't listen though :( < 1299009763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i listened now! < 1299009768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 0000001B 8035[36000000]08 prot: xor byte [rw], 8 < 1299009770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the [] mean < 1299009787 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299009787 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g229030139.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299009793 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my, a 32-bit offset :( < 1299009812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299009814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can xor 8 work < 1299009817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have to do -x < 1299009819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as +r < 1299009826 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you just flip the code/data bit < 1299009831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299009835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you have read but no write or exec? :D < 1299009850 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the values of RX_ACCESS and RW_ACCESS :) < 1299009868 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only differ in one bit < 1299009933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I hope you're using "-Ox" when assembling? NASM won't always use the shortest forms automagically if not. < 1299009989 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299010008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am, yes. < 1299010029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so i turn off bit 3 < 1299010036 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right < 1299010037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with least-significant = bit 0) < 1299010054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try btc or btr or whatever < 1299010056 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's how bt* counts it anyway :P < 1299010104 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, obviously it is because I'm using it like that and it works) < 1299010123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do you use btr :D < 1299010143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is its argument lsb=0 or msb=0? < 1299010155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299010157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you answered that :P < 1299010161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what does the [] stuff mean < 1299010163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the listing < 1299010191 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just indicates which part of the instruction is the offset, I think < 1299010194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1299010199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1299010212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"btr 3, [rw]" isn't right apparently :( < 1299010231 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, destinations go on the left < 1299010268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1299010280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's any shorter either, since the BT* immediates are one byte too. < 1299010284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course it might. < 1299010291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn to read the "BTR r/m16, r16" things < 1299010300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ding wrong < 1299010308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still invalid comb < 1299010361 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with btr dword[foo] < 1299010389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but then i'd have to change the offset :D < 1299010405 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr getting hit by that - even though there is only a single valid combination of operands, you have to specify that you mean it < 1299010412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I was full of myself as a kid < 1299010417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of the core aspects of this demo" < 1299010419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1299010428 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no you don't, the first bits are in the same place regardless < 1299010430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Probably word for 16-bit-mode code? < 1299010431 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little-endian you know < 1299010435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1299010442 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep < 1299010446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..() //Call parent < 1299010453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 0000001B 0FBA35[37000000]03 prot: btr dword [rw], 3 < 1299010455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long < 1299010456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's in 32-bit here < 1299010460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i relocated the gdt :) < 1299010464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I commented this code better. Preferably without comments such as that. < 1299010465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: of course i am, i'm loading the segments < 1299010465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299010469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you load the segments in 16-bit code? < 1299010471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lgdt < 1299010473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...load segments... < 1299010475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the cr0 magic < 1299010478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then jump into protected? < 1299010508 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you should be able to, I think < 1299010514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1299010531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I see what I did? < 1299010531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ugh but wait < 1299010532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it's the CS that decides what you mean by loading segment registers, or if it's the PE flag that does that < 1299010533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it has to start as +rw < 1299010535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then turn into +rx < 1299010536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the jump < 1299010540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone want to see code I wrote as a kid? < 1299010542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to set cs manuall < 1299010543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1299010550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may just end up longer. < 1299010558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take that "y" to mean "yes" < 1299010579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1622151 < 1299010579 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just load data segments, swizzle the bit, then far jump? < 1299010586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1299010587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1299010633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score < 1299010638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saved one byte over the previous 58 bytes < 1299010640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now at 57 bytes < 1299010642 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1299010651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1299010654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it faults < 1299010655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than booting < 1299010661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is less good than the previous behaviour i think < 1299010677 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where does it fault? when loading the ds or in the jump? < 1299010706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: err, you think i'm using bochs or some other similarly helpful thing? < 1299010712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's qemu, if the screen flickers it's rebooting constantly. < 1299010713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1299010722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :======================================================================== < 1299010722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event type: PANIC < 1299010722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Device: [ ] < 1299010722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Message: dlopen failed for module 'x': file not found < 1299010726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bochs is going well already < 1299010767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bochs works now < 1299010771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i get it to tell me the cause of the fault :D < 1299010781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh here < 1299010790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00561669756e[CPU0 ] check_cs(0x0008): not a valid code segment ! < 1299010790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00561669756e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x0d) < 1299010790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00561669756e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08) < 1299010790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00561669756i[CPU0 ] CPU is in protected mode (active) < 1299010803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so i guess "bts dword [rx], 3" isn't doing what i want it to do. < 1299010818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()(^)()()(^)()(^:^^:^)()()(^^)):^^:^ < 1299010819 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1299010822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1299010823 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it < 1299010828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1299010830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^ is TC? < 1299010835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*():^ < 1299010849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()()()(^^(^))()(^)()()(^)()()(^)()(^:^S:^^:^)()()()()(^^^^)):^^:^ < 1299010850 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...too much output! < 1299010854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1299010876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were the conversion of (:^):^ and ((^)S:^):^, respectively < 1299010915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: here's my conversion of the former < 1299010916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^):^ < 1299010922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers < 1299010974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good sign that the test programs run right, you'd think < 1299011021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()()()(^^(^))()()(^)()(^:^S)()()()()(^^^^))(()(^)()()()(^^^(:))()()(^)()(^:^S)()()()()()(^^^^^)):^^:^^:^^^:^ < 1299011021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^ < 1299011032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was ((^)S)((:)S):^!^ < 1299011038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do the turing machine < 1299011046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean minsky < 1299011072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the minsky < 1299011072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1299011074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely a dance. < 1299011078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a sex position, same thing < 1299011081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1299011092 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh! you're probably getting the segments the wrong way around now < 1299011114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a slight chance it might become rather large, i think :D < 1299011124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ax, sg < 1299011125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, ax < 1299011125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov es, ax < 1299011125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ss, ax < 1299011125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bts dword [rx], 3 < 1299011125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; < 1299011127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov eax, cr0 < 1299011129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or al, 1 < 1299011131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov cr0, eax < 1299011131 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're loading ds first, the initial contents has to be the data one, and you need to use the right bit-fiddling to make it into a code one < 1299011133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp sg:prot < 1299011135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1299011137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rx: db 10010010b < 1299011139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SEE, IT'S PERSCHFET < 1299011141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PERSCHFECT < 1299011143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not that much of a moron dude moron < 1299011145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1299011151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1299011153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1299011155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my label confused me < 1299011157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;rw: db 10011010b ; +rx -- this changes into +rw later < 1299011158 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm not that much of a moron dude moron oh wait < 1299011159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rx: db 10010010b < 1299011161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rw" < 1299011163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1299011167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"moron dude moron" xD < 1299011184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299011186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relink me to that gist agani < 1299011190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i closed deh tab :D < 1299011198 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have undo close tab? < 1299011202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299011202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is < 1299011236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did but < 1299011238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got closed a while ago < 1299011239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1299011244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i think the bts is doing the wrong thing somehow < 1299011247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rest is all perfect < 1299011250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only complains about cs < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | CS:0000( 0004| 0| 0) 00000000 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | DS:0008( 0005| 0| 0) 00000080 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | SS:0008( 0005| 0| 0) 00000080 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | ES:0008( 0005| 0| 0) 00000080 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | FS:0000( 0005| 0| 0) 00000000 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00098292206i[CPU0 ] | GS:0000( 0005| 0| 0) 00000000 0000ffff 0 0 < 1299011265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000??? < 1299011270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do "jmp sg:prot"! < 1299011271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1299011276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it doesn't show you the new value of cs < 1299011281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it complains while doing a far jump to set cs < 1299011286 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you're not changing the *first* byte of the segment descriptor are you? < 1299011307 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flags is like the sixth byte or something < 1299011314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rw: db 10010010b < 1299011318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bts dword [rw], 3 < 1299011319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRETTY SURE < 1299011320 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. not that at least < 1299011329 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU NEVER KNOW < 1299011359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just my ram flipping bits thanks to cosmic things < 1299011365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to teach me about how useful ecc is < 1299011377 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what is the actual contents of this memory at this point? < 1299011403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, define memory < 1299011405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, all of it? :D < 1299011413 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant parts, duh < 1299011427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which parts are relevant, or wait < 1299011429 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parts pertaining specifically to the issue at hand < 1299011432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to get out a debugger and print rw? < 1299011437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, jeez, that sounds complicated :/ < 1299011440 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1299011451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1299011453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm needs a printf statement < 1299011458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf "%d\n", rw < 1299011460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[rw] < 1299011466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just prints to the most useful console available :D < 1299011500 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, these protected-mode segments you just loaded have 0 as the base < 1299011515 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that doesn't match the segment you're trying to address rw relative to < 1299011600 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the segment nasm thinks you're trying to < 1299011623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh < 1299011624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "sg" all the way < 1299011631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdt equ sgp-8 < 1299011632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg equ sgp-gdt < 1299011632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgp: dw 0xffff < 1299011632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dw 0 < 1299011632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0 < 1299011632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rw: db 10010010b < 1299011633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0xcf < 1299011634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0 < 1299011636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good to me < 1299011663 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your origin is 0? < 1299011684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that line was stolen from you, so yeah < 1299011737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that origin is off by around 0x7c00 bytes < 1299011749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1299011751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my origin < 1299011756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x8000 in my case, 0x7c00 in your case < 1299011763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even paste my gdtr dude :P < 1299011772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right, i forgot 0x7c00... < 1299011784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why did it work before < 1299011787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, woop, still faults < 1299011805 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have worked before because you were using an old ds set up by your bios, instead of the protected-mode ds < 1299011892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so probably the origin of 0 is actually right, technically, for real-mode) < 1299012141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1299012141 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1299012331 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299012333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: are you sure "jmp foo:bar" in nasm works properly to set cs? :D < 1299012352 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure :) < 1299012365 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you fixed the offset to rw? < 1299012374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it wrong? < 1299012377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299012379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the offset to rw? < 1299012381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1299012391 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH indeed :) < 1299012392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean that "bts dword [rw], 3" is wrong? :) < 1299012394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm in real mode? < 1299012409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299012410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what i need to do to fix that actually < 1299012411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds:[rw]? < 1299012425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^minsky < 1299012426 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ...out of time! < 1299012439 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you just changed to a ds with a different offset, right? < 1299012440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not _immensely_ good, that :D < 1299012459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ...well right, the offset is 0 < 1299012460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need < 1299012467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rw+0x7c00] < 1299012468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? :P < 1299012475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1299012480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the segments overlap properly there... < 1299012483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does rw actually become inaccessible < 1299012525 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299012526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segments overlap what? < 1299012559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er :D < 1299012562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that makes no sense < 1299012580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm [rw+0x7c00] doesn't work either < 1299012580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1299012583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a different prob < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678e[CPU0 ] check_cs(0x0008): not a valid code segment ! < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x0d) < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08) < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678i[CPU0 ] CPU is in protected mode (active) < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678i[CPU0 ] CS.d_b = 16 bit < 1299012598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678i[CPU0 ] SS.d_b = 16 bit < 1299012600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678i[CPU0 ] EFER = 0x00000000 < 1299012602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1299012604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056386678e[CPU0 ] exception(): 3rd (13) exception with no resolution, shutdown status is 00h, resetting < 1299012606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh :/ < 1299012634 0 :Mannerisky!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1299012697 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm, set a breakpoint before the far jump, check what's in the gdt at that time? < 1299012829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you set... breakpoints... again :DDD < 1299012839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE IS AIS WHEN YOU NEED HIM < 1299012849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for what < 1299012862 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a command for it < 1299012873 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least two actually < 1299012916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1299012948 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1299012953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/underload/minskyconv.ul < 1299012955 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^::: < 1299012960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1299012981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1299012982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that good? < 1299012998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 28 in reverse binary < 1299013028 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locked in a refridgerated container: "let's sit down on the floor so we freeze to death quicker!" ... stupid tv people < 1299013051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ... huh? < 1299013056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have missed a ^ when i simplified it < 1299013061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval (':':p) (x:xs) = eval p (x:x:xs); eval ('^':p) (x:xs) = eval (x++p) xs; eval ('(':p) xs = eval p' (x:xs) where (p',x) = quote p < 1299013064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^ < 1299013081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just being annoyed at stupid ways to fail to keep warm, being shown on tv < 1299013111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, if the floor is stone or metal, that is in fact a very good way to fail to keep warm, as air is a better insulator. < 1299013125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm however "huh"ing at this being on TV at all :P < 1299013143 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: good yes, but stupid since failing to keep warm is not the objective :) < 1299013165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm? < 1299013173 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1299013173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it was actually more likely "Let's sit down on the floor so we rest our legs until we can escape" < 1299013189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: implementation of the turing complete Rockbottomload ():^ :-P < 1299013192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given appropriate quote function) < 1299013193 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299013197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1299013204 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ahhhh, OK, the way you came across made it sound like dying fast was the objective, which is an odd objective but a very achievable one :P < 1299013221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They just don't have TIME to die slowly! < 1299013222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a busy world! < 1299013242 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the only way to get out of the rat race! < 1299013279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They don't want to spend their lives sitting around waiting for the world to catch up with them and expire! < 1299013285 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299013447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!underload http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/underload/minskyconv.ul < 1299013449 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::^:: < 1299013463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtracted one from it < 1299013474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it compatible with the original < 1299013499 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.76.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299013509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the way that whenever we're on-topic I always missed the start and am completely out of my depth by the time I notice. < 1299013512 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this again < 1299013526 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is oerjan, he starts out out of everyone's depth < 1299013534 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so... ():^ is TC? < 1299013540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1299013545 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that a definitive yes? < 1299013548 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can < 1299013550 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i party? < 1299013552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1299013558 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! < 1299013561 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299013567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :():^ is TURING COMPLETE! EVERYBODY PARTY!!!! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1299013576 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| \o/ |o/ < 1299013576 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |   |   | < 1299013576 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |\ /|  /< < 1299013581 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o, /o/ |o| < 1299013582 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |   | < 1299013582 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |\  |\ < 1299013587 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor guy is just a head. < 1299013602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1299013603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just clean up the haskell a bit before uploading < 1299013612 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1299013614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1299013614 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1299013618 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ():^ ? < 1299013628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did: /ms send ais523 ():^ is Turing-complete! < 1299013635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a command subset of underload < 1299013636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: underload, with only () and the commands : and ^ < 1299013645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously, ():^ was thought to be sub-TC < 1299013648 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1299013652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /ms ? < 1299013653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with :!()^ the smallest known subset < 1299013656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: memoserv < 1299013659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1299013659 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading what the hell underload is, is still on my TODO < 1299013668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's just a simple esolang < 1299013677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has been reducing it over the past N < 1299013690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sry for saying ():^ it is of course :()^ < 1299013698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric ::()^ is TURING COMPLETE! EVERYBODY PARTY!!!! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1299013705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...how can it even be TC... < 1299013709 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^() makes for a smiley with a nose < 1299013716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a quining language without any actual operations :D < 1299013729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, :()^ would not be TC if ^ ignored the rest of the program, right? < 1299013735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. eval ('^':_) (p:xs) = eval p xs < 1299013741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the minimal subset is assuming that < 1299013765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1299013770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pure continuation passing < 1299013820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: sry for saying ():^ it is of course :()^ <-- for some reason i try to follow the order of the commands on the wiki < 1299013832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1299013837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nicer that way, despite being completely illogical < 1299013838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1299013840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more balanced < 1299014057 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has the Forth been abandoned yet? < 1299014059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: are you SURE setting segments is OK post-gdt, pre-protected?? < 1299014062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: haha nope < 1299014067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still hacking on it, reducing the bytes to get into protected mode < 1299014076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some 57 right now, i'm trying to shrink it further < 1299014105 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SURE, no :) but you are post-protected at that point, you're just still in a 16-bit code segment < 1299014121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: um < 1299014122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i haven't done < 1299014130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov eax, cr0 < 1299014130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or al, 1 < 1299014131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov cr0, eax < 1299014131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point < 1299014135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comes after < 1299014136 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik, the segment stuff is decided by protect-enable rather than by the code size of CS < 1299014141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1299014145 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!? < 1299014155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the osdev wiki, at least, tells me that after setting cr0, i MUST MUST MUST jump into a new cs < 1299014158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be bullshit though < 1299014168 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to at least enable protection before setting the protected-mode segments < 1299014173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1299014189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fixed that obvious error and it still faults < 1299014190 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do lots of stuff with protect enabled in a 16-bit code segment < 1299014194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you can set cr0 without jumping after? < 1299014223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still 57 bytes and now it doesn't work, nice :) < 1299014312 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001225d878d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299014318 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1299014318 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299014335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08:15 Give me a rational reason for the illegalization of consensual bestiality. < 1299014341 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote my code to set data segments after setting PE, but before jumping, works fine (it doesn't modify the gdt though) < 1299014342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WAS THIS PART OF AN ELABORATE BUILDUP TO FURRY FURRY BONDAGE GIRLS < 1299014366 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elaborate foreplay < 1299014371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042125034i[BIOS ] Booting from 0000:7c00 < 1299014371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042125231e[CPU0 ] check_cs(0x0008): not a valid code segment ! < 1299014372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042125231e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x0d) < 1299014372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042125231e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08) < 1299014372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00042125231i[CPU0 ] CPU is in protected mode (active) < 1299014375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1299014397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/underload/ULDisclaim2.hs < 1299014409 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1299014441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: god among men < 1299014545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now put it on the wiki and give ais a heart attack :D < 1299014551 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1299014568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ha < 1299014569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing < 1299014573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rw+0x7c00] to [rw] fixed it < 1299014577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because segments make no sense!! < 1299014608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was just pointing out how things that we find implicitly offensive are often very difficult to rationalize as offensive *shrugs* < 1299014626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't disagree, but bro, gimme a chance to make a BF Joust reference. < 1299014658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1299014675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:14:58 Now, before I start picturing goats mounting gregor, I must go to bed < 1299014694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my version, the goats are wearing hats; you're welcome) < 1299014707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:15:22 Just thought I'd put that question out there, since I was asked it today XD < 1299014709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:15:33 lol... by a goat? < 1299014710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:15:44 Yes. < 1299014710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:15:49 And one /hot/ goat if I might add. < 1299014710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:15:59 no doubt. Most goats are. < 1299014715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005 sure was wild, huh < 1299014744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:19:40 (In Romania, bestial porn is legal and sold commonly) < 1299014745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:19:52 Err, not romania. < 1299014745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:19:54 Hungary. < 1299014751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU KNOW WAY TOO MUCH FOR THIS NOT TO BE SUSPICIOUS < 1299014759 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299014761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:03 You know a lot about this, eh < 1299014761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:09 Wikipedia < 1299014761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:09 Wikipedia :) < 1299014761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-d < 1299014763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1299014765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x-d" < 1299014766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst smiley. < 1299014773 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299014828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure which way is up < 1299014839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's symmetric < 1299014857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually vertical < 1299014861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a blind guy with a retarded tongue or a guy with a cap who refuses to speak < 1299014863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy got punched in the face. < 1299014865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really hard. < 1299014867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: both < 1299014902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh wow, the blind-guy-with-retarded-tongue interpretation looks hilarious X-D < 1299014965 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1299014971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1299014972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56 bytes! < 1299014976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bts word rather than dword in real mode < 1299014998 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1299015019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 00000006 0F0116[2A00] lgdt [gdtr] < 1299015023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure "lgdt eax" isn't valid? :D < 1299015026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1299015071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's only 53 bytes, the 3 extra were "x: hlt; jmp x" < 1299015183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think it probably takes any memory operand < 1299015221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well [eax] there is only 52 bytes < 1299015239 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would it be shorter to put the offset in ax before lgdt [ax]? < 1299015260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: probably wouldn't be, also, lgdt [ax] isn't valid, it seems to want an operand size qualifier < 1299015263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't figure out which one it wants :) < 1299015278 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what nasm calls it < 1299015295 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 48-bit memory operand :) < 1299015342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:35 * {^Raven^} has to go assist an elevted member with stuff < 1299015343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:55 Is that code for gay sex? < 1299015343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17:08 It /sounds/ like code for gay sex :P < 1299015344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: heh < 1299015352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well a dword is 32 < 1299015354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a word is 16 < 1299015360 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1299015361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a dword + word < 1299015366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dword * 2 = qword, let's say < 1299015382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's between double and quadruple... < 1299015390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299015392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 3*word < 1299015393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: tword! < 1299015397 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked? < 1299015404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1299015407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually accepts tword < 1299015409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still errors out mind < 1299015413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't give any invalid keyword massive < 1299015414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message < 1299015418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it does with "tworsdjgdfg" < 1299015427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am as genius as the nasm creator! < 1299015447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost any x87 floating-point instruction that references memory must use one of the prefixes DWORD, QWORD or TWORD to indicate what size of memory operand it refers to. < 1299015457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess tword is that :D < 1299015474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's an octaword < 1299015501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else { //Instruction == LGDT < 1299015501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(OperandSize == 16) { < 1299015501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GDT.Limit = Source[0..15]; < 1299015501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GDTR.Base = Source[16..47] & 0xFFFFFF; < 1299015501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1299015502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else { //OperandSize == 32 < 1299015503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GDTR.Limit = Source[0..15]; < 1299015506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GDTR.Base = Source[16..47]; < 1299015509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1299015510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1299015511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flags affected < 1299015514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1299015515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1299015516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, that's OWORD, I think. My guess would be a ten-word 80-bit x87 float. < 1299015517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from http://siyobik.info/index.php?module=x86&id=156) < 1299015525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If operand-size attribute is 32 bits, a 16-bit limit (lower 2 bytes of the 6-byte data operand) and a 32-bit base address (upper 4 bytes of the data operand) are loaded into the register. If the operand-size attribute is 16 bits, a 16-bit limit (lower 2 bytes) and a 24-bit base address (third, fourth, and fifth byte) are loaded. Here, the high-order byte of the operand is not used and the high-order byte of the base address in the GDTR or IDTR is < 1299015526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aah < 1299015528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : with zeros." < 1299015530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :D < 1299015532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that. < 1299015555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BYTE, WORD, DWORD, QWORD, TWORD, OWORD or YWORD" seems to be the nasm size-specifier list. < 1299015571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PUT HANGMAN BACK IN EGOBOT. < 1299015578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but, but, what about 3 words?! < 1299015623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have a word for that; anyway, the lgdt mem16:32 is pretty weird. < 1299015658 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ax can't be used as an offset in real mode, obviously < 1299015692 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g231050041.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1299015699 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you, by any chance, get "invalid effective address" when trying to lgdt [ax]? < 1299015756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lgdt doesn't take an operand size since it's, you know, special < 1299015772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1299015776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get an operand size mismatch < 1299015784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1299015785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1299015786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, indeed < 1299015790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid effective addesresress < 1299015806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, what's this smaller operand size for lgdt, does it let me save bytes :D < 1299015859 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use one of the registers that are valid offsets (bx, bp, si, di), at least until you reach protected mode < 1299015862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can decode from the manual, it will have the 48-bit memory address always; the "operand-size" just refers to 16/32-bit mode. (You can see how it talks about 6 bytes in both the 32-bit and 16-bit mode descriptions.) < 1299015881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know that fast befunge-93 impl you have? < 1299015890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In legacy and compatibility mode, the pseudo-descriptor is 6 bytes; in 64-bit mode, it is 10 bytes." < 1299015902 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the sixth byte is ignored in 16-bit mode, that means you can use it < 1299015903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff3, yes. < 1299015913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should store the fungespace array such that up, down, left, and right of any cell is a constant away from it. (Or at least an approximation of that.) < 1299015926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one of them space-filling fractals might be useful? I hear those do that kind of thing quite well. < 1299015929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: do you already? < 1299015936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nice, how do i use the 16-bit mode :P < 1299015941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1299015942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1299015943 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're in it, I think < 1299015947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you have to use one of the registers that are valid offsets (bx, bp, si, di), at least until you reach protected mode < 1299015947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1299015959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, 55 instead of 56 < 1299015963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lgdt [bp] < 1299015964 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that should be *reach the 32-bit code segment < 1299015971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54 with di! < 1299015991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, the offset is always constant even with a regular 2D grid; I mean, it's just +1/-1/+width/-width. < 1299015992 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, don't use bp with a 0 offset, it requires an offset byte anyway < 1299016021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Err, right. I meant, + small constant. < 1299016028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because, you know, locality, and. < 1299016040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, FRACTALS. < 1299016052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that his last algorithm can remove ! from _any_ subset containing :()^ < 1299016082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every single instruction is cancelable < 1299016091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a version of his last algorithm < 1299016105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1299016113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now prove )^ complete < 1299016117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have :, or ( < 1299016122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOULD BE SIMPLE < 1299016204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you the problem of printing remains (only cancelable strings can be used freely for printing) < 1299016245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/gccM1.jpg < 1299016257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN WHICH A REDDITOR FAILS AT UNDERSTANDING USER INTERFACES < 1299016267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan used to come in as oerjanj? < 1299016270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just wrong < 1299016281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/gccM1.jpg <-- lmao < 1299016295 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which elliott links to the same picture again < 1299016300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone space out some large windows icons to look exactly like that and set a wooden background :) < 1299016304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: BETTER THAN QUOTING HIS ENTRIE LINE < 1299016308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, entrie line < 1299016326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299016330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the stack by default in x86? < 1299016333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there not one :) < 1299016346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Also, it just says "if the operand size is 16 bits, the high-order byte -- is not used"; it doesn't say you need to be in 16-bit mode. So I think you could just stick a 66h prefix in front of the LGDT (in NASM, "O16 LGDT ...") to use that mode. But then you would be paying the single-byte prefix in order to use the shorter 5-byte descriptor. (So I guess being in proper 16-bit mode is the only way you can actually benefit from that.) < 1299016373 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you left it pointing some random place < 1299016384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am in real mode < 1299016386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with protected mode on < 1299016389 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's where you point the esp register in the ss segment < 1299016397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 16-bit code, anyway < 1299016401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right. so i should set that up later < 1299016405 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in protected mode in a 16-bit code segment :) < 1299016409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! < 1299016413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best mode. < 1299016425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan used to come in as oerjanj? <-- huh? i cannot recall that < 1299016426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (I'll have two stacks, data and return, and just swap esp to be those) < 1299016429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that too. < 1299016435 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you want to use the stack :) but you probably do, because stack operations are short and sweet < 1299016438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/esotericlogs/06.09.27:08:35:31 --- join: oerjanj (n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no) joined #esoteric < 1299016438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/esotericlogs/06.09.27:10:06:35 hello < 1299016440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and far more < 1299016447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi razor-x, did jix ever get hold of you? from reading the logs you seemed to behave like Superman and Clark Kent... < 1299016449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1299016460 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc all the push/pop of GPR:s are single byte, for example < 1299016461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://elliottcable.name/resume.xhtml < 1299016465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate him already. < 1299016470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes his previous statement was wrong, a and * cannot be implemented without at least each other < 1299016478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: do not look in to that man, he is pure horrible < 1299016491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would pulverise his skull given the chance < 1299016512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right, although i dunno how long < 1299016517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, foo < 1299016521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop eax < 1299016523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, foo < 1299016523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1299016527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the "manual" way < 1299016530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be for the return stack) < 1299016556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You can use either esi or edi for an almost-stack, by setting the DF properly and then using either LODSD or STOSD to do pop/push. (And then explicit mov/add/sub/lea/whatever for the other, missing operation.) < 1299016569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm maybe it was before i discovered i could get the nick released < 1299016591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what more operations on a stack are there than push and pop :) < 1299016606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: Also, it just says "if the operand size is 16 bits, the high-order byte -- is not used"; it doesn't say you need to be in 16-bit mode. So I think you could just stick a 66h prefix in front of the LGDT (in NASM, "O16 LGDT ...") to use that mode. But then you would be paying the single-byte prefix in order to use the shorter 5-byte descriptor. (So I guess being in proper 16-bit mode is the only way you can actually benefit from that. < 1299016607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1299016611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgp: dw 0xffff < 1299016612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dw 0 < 1299016612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0 < 1299016612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rw: db 10010010b < 1299016613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0xcf < 1299016615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db 0 < 1299016617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part isn't used? < 1299016619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last byte? < 1299016621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first? :P < 1299016696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you want to use the "normal" stack for control flow since there are call/ret instructions using it, and the fake stack for data? < 1299016706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean, you can get either pop (by using esi and lodsd) or push (by using edi and stosd), not both at the same time, since lodsd/stosd use different registers (and only do post-increment/decrement anyway; not pre-). < 1299016718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no < 1299016721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: forth doesn't use call/ret < 1299016726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded code, remember? :) < 1299016733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or switch and use native stack for everything, but switching may be costly < 1299016734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses NEXT < 1299016742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just "pop from return stack, goto" admittedly a lot like ret < 1299016750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On ARM you could just use any general-purpose register for stackery. (Except that I think in THUMB code quite many of the post-increment/pre-decrement ones are hardcoded to only use the one that's the "usual" stack pointer.) < 1299016751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1299016752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it is ret < 1299016753 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so NEXT might be RET, if the stack is set up to support that < 1299016755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OTOH < 1299016760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299016761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1299016764 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was my point) < 1299016766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could start every primitive with < 1299016770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, datastack < 1299016771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1299016774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg esp, datastack < 1299016774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ret < 1299016775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose < 1299016778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a good idea. anyway. < 1299016811 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the byte that's not used: the last one < 1299016832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1299016851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i'm in "bits 16", nasm will automatically be calling that, right? < 1299016852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prefix required < 1299016856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not? < 1299016901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're in a code segment with a 16-bit operand size :) bits 16 is just a hint for nasm to generate code that matches the mode you're in < 1299016919 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "yes" < 1299016929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... 8 bytes gdt, 6 bytes gdtr, so 14 bytes total for gdt stuff... and the rest is code < 1299016936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 14 bytes gdt, 40 bytes code < 1299016939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad I guess < 1299016942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "xchg eax, esp" is a byte shorter than "xchg [any other register], esp"... but of course eax is often required for many things -- and included in other shorter opcodes -- so you might not want to keep your data stack. < 1299016946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1299016950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually 51 without the inf loop :D < 1299016958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 37 bytes of code to get into protected mode < 1299016962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1299016965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1299016971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, eax seems to useful to waste like that, since I'd be clobbering it all the time. < 1299017032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1299017043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i load cr0 into al directly instead of wasting all the time putting it in eax? ;D < 1299017052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE < 1299017063 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could maybe use (e.g.) ebp for the data stack, and just address and decrement it instead of pushing and popping < 1299017077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: You can use either esi or edi for an almost-stack, by setting the DF properly and then using either LODSD or STOSD to do pop/push. (And then explicit mov/add/sub/lea/whatever for the other, missing operation.) < 1299017079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the man said :P < 1299017091 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it very common to push and pop single items? < 1299017117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well every instruction pops something or pushes something < 1299017119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most do both... < 1299017121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1299017125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more pop than push < 1299017126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1299017129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a forth and you don't do any tricks, yes, quite many primitives do just single items. < 1299017177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, chuck moore hates 90% of words that pop more than one thing i bet :) < 1299017182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the unfun part < 1299017185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard input without interrupts < 1299017189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course with zero-stack-effect primitives, you don't need to alter the stack pointer, you can just [blah] it if it points to the topmost real existing element. < 1299017189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even _possible_? :) < 1299017212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could save, like, 4 bytes on not switching stacks - but of course lose some from not having the stack primitives accessible < 1299017217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE I ASK YOU < 1299017225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you poll often enough, sure, I don't see why not. < 1299017235 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bah, stop asking and prove it possible < 1299017240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'm doing olsner :P < 1299017253 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have no idea how to talk to keyboards without a BIOS < 1299017257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The interpreter loop as I'm currently planning it is just going to be "Read word from keyboard terminated by space, feed it to the interpreter, repeat". < 1299017267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's pretty much completely hung on keyboard input when it's not interpreting. < 1299017365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: If I recall correctly, the keyboard controller has a single-byte "buffer" register which you can read whenever; and you can poll the status register for the "is there input in the buffer" bit. < 1299017401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/ and especially the "kbRead" code snippet seems reasonable to me. < 1299017474 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that looks very reasonable < 1299017512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1299017525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You even get key-repeat for free, since it's done by the keyboard. < 1299017553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1299017629 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the key-repeat rate is set by your polling rate. Awesome. < 1299017635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1299017664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's set by the "Set Typematic Rate/Delay" command. < 1299017670 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw. < 1299018061 0 :caramel1991!~caramel19@180.72.1.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299018095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that sense it's a bit limited; I remember the Sun/Sparc keyboard was a lot more flexible w.r.t. repeat delays and rates. (The x86 one has just two bits for the delay -- 0.25s, 0.5s, 0.75s, 1s -- and five for the rate -- 2 ... 30 chars/second.) < 1299018129 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configurable key repeat is over-rated < 1299018135 0 :caramel1991!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1299018177 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing-complete keyboards are over-rated. < 1299018519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Quote from a computer retailer, about a gamer-oriented keyboard: "Integrated turbocore and 2MB built-in memory". < 1299018529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They do not explain what a "turbocore" does in a keyboard.) < 1299018568 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accelerate your typing, obviously < 1299018570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also: keyboards with gold-plated connectors.) < 1299018664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299018753 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about gold-plated clackers < 1299018761 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are useful aren't they < 1299018762 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, you running any forth code yet? < 1299018772 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can only expect your model m to last so long < 1299018783 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold makes terminals go longer i guess < 1299018791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not yet < 1299018795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy showing gregor around autismland < 1299018803 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess due to mechanical properties silver is better < 1299018813 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@autism < 1299018923 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1299019001 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299019056 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1299019446 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299019602 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299019779 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299019793 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299019879 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299019992 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1299020006 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299020211 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1299020425 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1299020433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1299020438 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:08 < elliott> busy showing gregor around autismland < 1299020441 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1299020443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft. < 1299020447 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. < 1299020469 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater-: Well, gold *plating* connectors at least has a vaguely legitimate use. < 1299020490 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I doubt corrosion is a big problem on what's a few-bits-per-second bus. < 1299020785 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1299020799 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even parts which are 20 years old will still work. < 1299020819 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's up to 200 hz with overdrive by the way < 1299020834 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember setting my ps2 clock to crazy rates like that in windows 98 < 1299021616 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299021649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: olsner: Hey, will "hlt" still do the right thing if interrupts are off? < 1299021655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, stop the keyboard-polling loop be a CPU-eater? < 1299021823 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1299021944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in the sense that it will halt and not wake up again. (Well, except if you manage to get a non-maskable interrupt -- or RESET or INIT -- from your hardware.) < 1299021954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in the sense that it'd be very useful. < 1299021961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Darne. < 1299021977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before executing a HLT instruction, hardware interrupts should be enabled. If rFLAGS.IF = 0, the system will remain in a HALT state until an NMI, SMI, RESET, or INIT occurs." < 1299021993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think I'll sleeb. < 1299021993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1299022010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, that kbRead thing returns scancodes, right? < 1299022021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you answer in -minecraft though? :P < 1299022042 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1299022089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, what's a good thing to crash the processor again? < 1299022119 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1299022371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yay, turns out all the things I thought were successful workingnesses... were just me forgetting to readd the signature < 1299022375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE IS SO BUGGY WHOOP WHOOP < 1299022396 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lidt 0; int PICK_A_NUMBER < 1299022399 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1299022402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: wat < 1299022419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You mean for using int for keyboard stuff? < 1299022428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, but then I'd have to have interrupt handlers, and I'm trying to stuff this into *512 bytes*. < 1299022429 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, for crashing the processor. < 1299022430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather eat CPU. < 1299022432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1299022442 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sets the interrupt descriptor table to 0 and then tries to do an interrupt. < 1299022447 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby causing a triple fault. < 1299022457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056166961e[CPU0 ] fetch_raw_descriptor: GDT: index (f) 1 > limit (e) < 1299022457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056166961e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x0d) < 1299022457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056166961e[CPU0 ] interrupt(): gate descriptor is not valid sys seg (vector=0x08) < 1299022457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00056166961i[CPU0 ] CPU is in protected mode (active) < 1299022464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: w a t < 1299022491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, wait < 1299022494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1299022495 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and on qemu you'll get a core dump. < 1299022499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait i do it right < 1299022500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1299022793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: 00056166961e[CPU0 ] fetch_raw_descriptor: GDT: index (f) 1 > limit (e) < 1299022797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it even meaaaaaaaaan < 1299022806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm trying to use some totally-invalid segment < 1299022808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But but I'm nooot < 1299023236 0 :Mannerisky!~mannerisk@71-38-36-196.frgo.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1299023544 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1299023635 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1299023802 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1299023840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1299023846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: your fancy plan doesn't work at all < 1299023860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as i do < 1299023863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov ds, ax < 1299023864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it faults < 1299023871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/after/ loading the gdt and protecting mysel < 1299023872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1299023880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I bet you have to be in a 32-bit code segment to set segments.