< 1298852198 0 :blackcustard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298852358 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chpwn < 1298852401 0 :chpwn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1298853270 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-247-31.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298853304 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1298855808 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298855817 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1298855820 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1298856157 0 :Snowyowl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Snowyowl < 1298856482 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298856530 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298856555 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298856565 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1298856651 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298856704 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298857913 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298858026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki system I am making is simply an experimental system, it is not intended to be better or worse than other systems. I just try to see what I can make with this. < 1298858080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I am still going to make TeXnicard, too. < 1298858275 0 :alp_y!~test@88.224.140.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298858320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play tsume shogi? < 1298858465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tumesiȳôkì? < 1298858729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298858853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, although one of the letters in your romanization scheme will not display on my computer because I do not have the fonts. < 1298859269 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-187-145.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298859301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298859304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All developers in Windows have access to all the Windows source code. The source code is completely indexed and we have a really nice tool for searching the code." < 1298859308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY HASN'T IT BEEN FULLY LEAKED YET < 1298859324 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they'd get caught < 1298859364 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want me to, I could get hired by M$ and get it to you in ~10 years < 1298859365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that would be pretty hard to prove < 1298859375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're certain MS would hire you? :p < 1298859389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a full checkout of the source then it's a single copy operation to leak it. < 1298859398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt every copy operation on every developer's machine is logged. < 1298859474 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did you google for it? < 1298859495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google for what? < 1298859545 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows source code < 1298859715 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's several GB though. < 1298859825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Uhh, if it leaked I'd know about it, it was huge news when parts leaked in 2004. < 1298859925 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that MS actually doesn't have any single developer with access to the whole thing. < 1298859947 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: friend who works at MS. And develops for Windows.) < 1298859980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You're wrong. Source: This blog post by someone who works for MS. And devleops for windows. < 1298860006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://foredecker.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/working-at-microsoft-day-to-day-coding/ < 1298860008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All developers in Windows have access to all the Windows source code. The source code is completely indexed and we have a really nice tool for searching the code. Everyone also has access to all bugs, all source code control change descriptions, and all specifications. Note, there are sometimes a very few things that are locked down to just a team. These are usually security and cryptography related." < 1298860017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the system can run without crypto. < 1298860055 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298860103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(man, I just love Jeff Atwood)" < 1298860104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/vomit < 1298860128 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably depends on what you count as "the whole thing", then. < 1298860366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQmK1CnwOUI < 1298862530 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-6-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1298862531 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298862531 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298862785 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-6-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1298862786 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298862786 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298862983 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298863254 0 :pizearke2!411cad9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.28.173.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298863368 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up esolang? < 1298863433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything. < 1298863434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evreything is up. < 1298863503 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except assembly. I'd say that's down. < 1298863949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The enemy's gate. < 1298864029 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you guys like unlambda? < 1298864302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan does at least :P < 1298864320 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1298864326 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is he on? < 1298864334 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need someone to talk about CL with xD < 1298864359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time. Be warned, he's old and grumpy. ok not that grumpy. < 1298864766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL? < 1298864784 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combinatory logic. < 1298864996 0 :alp_y!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298865427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298865574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizearke2: I know some things about Unlambda. < 1298865594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have specific questions? < 1298865615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, #clojure now knows of you < 1298865624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you were here when I mentioned it < 1298865665 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298865707 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really questions, no. < 1298865846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now I know. < 1298865924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL is cool, no one's judging you < 1298865959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they needed a URL that gives a 503, so I pointed them to your thing < 1298866020 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just figured out how to not use a fixed point combinator for recursion. < 1298866023 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK. Why did they need a URL that gives a 503? < 1298866030 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I discovered this, or if I'm just behind the game. < 1298866079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, one of the bots in the channel seemed to have an issue with some URL that gave a 503, but they weren't sure. So they needed one that could be relied on to give a 503 to test what the bot would do. < 1298866104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The URL that it choked on didn't realiably give a 503, it was.. I don't even know what 503 is tbh < 1298866266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. Now I understand. I suppose then, that my program is now useful for kind of testing purposes such as that! < 1298866373 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is capable of generating any error code that PHP and Apache can generate (you cannot put just any arbitrary code, which is a bit unfortunately...) < 1298866791 0 :pizearke2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1298867126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, now i'll never know if pizearke2 just meant passing a function along < 1298867132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you ask < 1298867521 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that either. < 1298867890 0 :allanlw!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298868141 0 :Alex_Meg1roide!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298868176 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298868195 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298868344 0 :Alex_Megaroide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298868497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to be accidentally creeping out Other KT-AT < 1298868522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She seems to be unaware that my other number is me, despite me telling her several times < 1298868715 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I suggest you stop failing at life? < 1298868728 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I'm sounding like a broken record. < 1298868927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, she thinks you are sharing everything she tells you with your best buddy or something < 1298869018 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298869026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no, she is unaware of who the person who texted her is < 1298869028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1298869033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, >.> < 1298869037 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298869141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you think I tell you _everything_? < 1298869144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About anything? < 1298869154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, i'm not talking about myself < 1298869192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" < 1298869222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also, I think you missed 'Other' < 1298869230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, I'm not at that point with anyone < 1298869235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, all I said was Hi < 1298869241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to ruin your fantasy < 1298869254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be < 1298869259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a nice fantasy < 1298869314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two and a half hours till exam < 1298869317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not feeling it < 1298869441 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298869628 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298869839 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298869853 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298870703 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298870720 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1298871497 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298871841 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298871858 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-165-45.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298872018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Internet connection. < 1298872608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please read this: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MScopper,silver, < 1298873161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a kind of game like shogi. < 1298873171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play shogi game? < 1298873327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have played some tsume shogi game on GameBoy. But this game is not tsume shogi game, it is a different kind of game with some similarity to shogi and a bit to xiangqi, too. < 1298873681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of immense curiosity, to what extent have you learned foreign languages? < 1298873694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, seems like a bit of a non sequitur. < 1298873747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not learned it much. However, I sometimes read a Japanese books. < 1298873761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Japanese tsume shogi game. < 1298873834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a few things of Japanese, including some kanji, and kana pronouncing, and a few words. Sometimes I also look up other words in WWWJDIC, because I try to read the book and some word I do not know. < 1298873895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly wondering why your English appears so incredibly nonnative. < 1298873909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I know that English is your native language. < 1298873986 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why? < 1298874028 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably because I try to write things which have no proper English word/grammar so I have to make up new one to try to write what I am trying to write, but still it is not perfectly what I am trying to mean. < 1298874045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's that < 1298874082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OK, then you can say it is something else. < 1298874118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i have no idea what it is. personally i love the way you talk < 1298874134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1298874138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda got an uncanny valley effect going on to me. < 1298874156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What is an uncanny valley effect? < 1298874243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The "uncanny valley" effect is a problem, usually in computer graphics, that as you get a depiction of a human closer to reality, it appears more realistic until you get too close. At which point it becomes freaking creepy. This point is called the "uncanny valley". More realistic appears more realistic, less realistic appears more realistic... < 1298874258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm analogising with that. < 1298874290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Mori_Uncanny_Valley.svg ← < 1298874369 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let me see. < 1298874415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK now I can see what it is. < 1298874511 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298874924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that chess variant interest you? < 1298875142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any chess variant at all interest you? < 1298875163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298875170 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-218.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298875287 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's something ASD. seems like he'd be interesting to meet, no? < 1298875303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no! < 1298875311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes! < 1298875319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Mmm? < 1298875364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason he writes this way < 1298875380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1298875388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he writes that way because it's cool, i'm sure < 1298875400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wat < 1298875403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean hi < 1298875509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you know that in a k-connected graph, given any v, and S with v \notin S, |S| = k, there exist k paths from v to a node in S that only share the vertex v < 1298875539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1298875541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k-connected = smallest vertex set that disconnects the graph or makes it trivial has size k < 1298875596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now you do! these are called dirac's fans... well i'm not sure what exactly is the dirac fan, maybe v, S and the paths together < 1298875609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you show an example? I do not know much about graph theory < 1298875640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i want to do that in ascii < 1298875658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't get something in the definition, i'll be happy to clarify tho < 1298875671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sounds somewhat plausible at least < 1298875673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd prove this but i have the exam < 1298875698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not have to be in ASCII. < 1298875701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: rather direct corollary of: smallest separating set has size k <=> k independent paths between any two vertices < 1298875717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :independent = only share ends < 1298875725 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298875745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is menger's theorem, and you usually prove it with a rather tedious although straightforward induction < 1298875772 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I do not understand is only because I do not know much of graph theory; but if I see example then perhaps I can learn graph theory more better. < 1298875787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well make an example yourself? < 1298875827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a graph such that you'd have to remove at least k vertices to make it disconnected < 1298875840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well i don't think it's enough to choose a vertex in S for the other one in the independent paths thing < 1298875843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then take a random vertex, and a random k element set < 1298875858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, rather direct, not completely direct < 1298875883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to add another vertex to every element of S < 1298875884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can do that. However I do not know what makes a graph "trivial"? < 1298875891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 1 vertex < 1298875909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 vertices is not considered a graph in our framework < 1298875916 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That was one of my guesses. Thanks for explaining it to me. Now I can try. < 1298875948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not explaining, it was defining! this is important to distinguish < 1298875982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps you mean defining by explaining < 1298876036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to explain and define things in math, and just like books have freeform paragraphs for explanation and definition blocks for definitions, you should try to make a clear distinction in any math context < 1298876037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean defining. < 1298876068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i just tend to be a bit zealous about this stuff < 1298876070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on it < 1298876141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway drawing the graph won't teach you nearly as much graph theory as proving menger's theorem would, or at least proving that v and S thing from menger's theorem < 1298876142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1298876157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already basically gave the proof < 1298876171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the fun part of it :P < 1298876208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to leave -> < 1298876313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can make up a font with diagonal lines for graph theory in TeX. < 1298876381 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menger's thm is not hard to prove iirc < 1298876451 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the fan thing has some interesting things you can prove < 1298876859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strong is an alloy of copper, silver, gold? < 1298876957 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298877001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Are you considered a graph in my framework? < 1298877112 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1298877817 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1298878069 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298878135 0 :wth!~tianhou@2001:250:4001:302:223:8bff:fe54:5b7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1298878795 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-105.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298878805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298878809 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh holy crapcrap. < 1298878814 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBC has aired David Firth cartoons. < 1298878819 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This frightens me. < 1298878829 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And impresses me. < 1298879999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1298880000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1298882536 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust increase (+)*-1 < 1298882649 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_increase: 13.4 < 1298882745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahaha < 1298882755 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it beat deewiant's top competitors XD < 1298882815 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also breakdown.txt seems to print the wrong victor? < 1298882818 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR < 1298882834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN THIS PLOX < 1298882836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust vs quintopia_increase.bfjoust < 1298882836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -42 < 1298882836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant_allegro.bfjoust wins. < 1298882888 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears you are printing the arrows backwards! < 1298882899 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the report shows the victor is correct < 1298882908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse your arrows please gregor! < 1298883278 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298884547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are, in fact, my arrows; but they are the correct way around for me; I think Gregor must've broken them when changing the sign of the scores. (My version had "42" for that result, i.e. score for left player.) < 1298884574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him to just print -score in main, but I think he instead flipped all the places where the actual interpreter updates the score, for some reason. < 1298884594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course I told him that only afterwards, but that's no excuse.) < 1298885361 0 :alp_y!~test@88.224.140.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298885391 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is this chainlance? < 1298885394 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ah < 1298885396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gearlance? < 1298885476 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, a simple fix would be to switch the order the competitors are displayed in the breakdown (new competitor on the left) < 1298885495 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, you know, leave the score value alone) < 1298885736 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-maptwuesgisgbeia JOIN :#esoteric < 1298886297 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298886349 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g229029112.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298886503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> Bool < 1298886504 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude null :: [a] -> Bool < 1298886504 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List null :: [a] -> Bool < 1298886504 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude all :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool < 1298888535 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-6-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1298888535 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1298888536 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1298888734 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298889444 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1298889676 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298889890 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298890220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298890296 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298891431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298892300 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-171.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298892356 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298893568 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1298895478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here have ideas about how to automatically check a moderately large number (between 100 and 200) of Java code submissions for plagiarism? < 1298895503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got a pretty good idea that it's happening, but not who's copying off who, or in what way < 1298895531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code's been changed enough that simply comparing executables doesn't work, nor does comparing source even with comments and variable name variation removed < 1298895542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm wondering if there's something more insane I can try < 1298895565 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298895632 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181136109.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298896206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have the same problem (well, except N=~50 instead of 100-200), but no real solutions. < 1298896216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did see a 2008 paper about the topic, though. < 1298896218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.hut.fi/Software/Plaggie/ ? < 1298896256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the script I'm running decomposes programs into a sequence of characters, one per line, with identifiers that aren't keywords replaced with underscores (it needs a better approach for keywords, really) < 1298896266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then pairwise diffs the resulting files, and counts the number of lines in the diff < 1298896279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/ICCIT.2008.267 is the one I remember seeing. < 1298896282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not a context diff, just an old-fashioned format-nobody-uses-any-more diff) < 1298896293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I wonder why no-one advertised Plaggie to me when I was asking about this stuff. < 1298896326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The proceedings link on that page doesn't seem to want to work.) < 1298896331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that download counting form is bizarre < 1298896341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't they, you know, just actually count downloads? < 1298896343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that's the one but I think the basic programming courses use something that was made here < 1298896362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1315831 is the two-page paper which lacks any interesting info < 1298896378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual download page is http://www.cs.hut.fi/Software/Plaggie/download.html < 1298896381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(found via view source) < 1298896429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it reads Java sources? < 1298896453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can decompile if you only have the bytecode < 1298896460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have source < 1298896475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do have sources too; but the one I remember reading about was a bytecode similarity tool. < 1298896482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one uses sources < 1298896494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obvious which is better to use when checking for plagiarism < 1298896499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The basic algorithm used for comparing two source code files is tokenization followed by greedy string tiling." < 1298896502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :article or source, that is < 1298896523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if azip would be good at this? < 1298896532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people from Austin, TX, seem to have patented "An analysis tool extracts class data from Java objects within a potential plagiarizing Java program and the original Java program, and then compares classes common to the potential plagiarizing program and the original across various performance metrics." < 1298896595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a reference to an earlier patent for "A technique for detecting similarities in large sets of binary code files, e.g., bytecode files, without requiring access or knowledge of the actual source code itself." < 1298896981 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1298898154 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.13/20101203075014] < 1298898243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298899255 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298900372 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298901576 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298901629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:26 argh, now i'll never know if pizearke2 just meant passing a function along < 1298901629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:32 why didn't you ask < 1298901632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll be back < 1298901646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:48:17 I appear to be accidentally creeping out Other KT-AT < 1298901647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:48:42 She seems to be unaware that my other number is me, despite me telling her several times < 1298901652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow she is the most retarded person i have ever heard of < 1298901656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from your father < 1298901674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:01 Besides, you think I tell you _everything_? < 1298901674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:04 About anything? < 1298901675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1298901696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" < 1298901729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:18 It's kinda got an uncanny valley effect going on to me. < 1298901729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:36 pikhq: What is an uncanny valley effect? < 1298901732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've figured it out < 1298901739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he lined up "uncanny valley effect" with yours < 1298901745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the entire goal of his speech < 1298901750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be nicely-formatted in monospaced < 1298901766 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1298901804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1298901807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" < 1298901809 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :327) okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" < 1298901840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:09 Oh holy crapcrap. < 1298901841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:14 The BBC has aired David Firth cartoons. < 1298901841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:19 This frightens me. < 1298901841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:29 And impresses me. < 1298901841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just that awesome < 1298901875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:15:47 They are, in fact, my arrows; but they are the correct way around for me; I think Gregor must've broken them when changing the sign of the scores. (My version had "42" for that result, i.e. score for left player.) < 1298901875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:14 I told him to just print -score in main, but I think he instead flipped all the places where the actual interpreter updates the score, for some reason. < 1298901876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:34 (Of course I told him that only afterwards, but that's no excuse.) < 1298901894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say, lance isn't nearly as entertaining as this < 1298902176 0 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1298902214 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :I_WIN < 1298902247 0 :I_WIN!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1298902270 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298902786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Thielemann < 1298903375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ι = id in ι 3 < 1298903376 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1298903548 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" menger's thm is not hard to prove iirc" <<< it's kinda obvious how to do the induction, yes, but there's a few cases you need to consider, so it takes a while to get the details right < 1298903563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" also the fan thing has some interesting things you can prove" ? < 1298903675 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172176.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298903679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" does anyone here have ideas about how to automatically check a moderately large number (between 100 and 200) of Java code submissions for plagiarism?" <<< flunk the whole class and see which ones get beaten up < 1298903776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :D < 1298903877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun :: ((Sem -> Sem) -> Sem) -> Sem < 1298903877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun f = Fun $ \(Sem g) -> f g < 1298903882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sem sem fun sem sem fun fun fun fun sem fun sem fun < 1298903958 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1298904401 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1298904752 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298904841 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298904935 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.237.32.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298904980 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down N/A: IPv4: 256k+128k to China, 32k to South Korea, 8M(!!!) to Japan, 8k+512 to Indonesia, 256 to Malaysia. IPv6: /32 to Indonesia, /32 to Thailand, /32 to Hong Kong. < 1298905000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8M blocks? I HOPE SO < 1298905136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will be down either 0.52 (to 2.92 + ERX blocks) or 0.53 (to 2.91 + ERX blocks). < 1298905208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, 8M /IPv4/? < 1298905210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1298905212 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1298905225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should that really have been granted... < 1298905234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the allocation of a nation working hard on IPv6 migration :P < 1298905302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allegedly Japan IPv6 is so bad that it is best to blacklist the entiere country from AAAA records (with some exceptions). < 1298905329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Huh ... that's quite surprising considering how good Japan are with technology adoption. < 1298905338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the speeds of their interweb connections... < 1298905457 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTT (Semi-monopolistic there) allegedly gives customers IPv6 addresses... That don't route to/from the Internet. It is fairly easy to see what problem that causes. < 1298905505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about the worst way one can do to break IPv6. < 1298905552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's awesome X-D < 1298905565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 enabled! Note: IPv6 not actually enabled. < 1298905887 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, That is going to be royal fun when Google enables quad-As globally on world IPv6 day... :-) < 1298905934 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Facebook too. And few other MAJOR sites. < 1298906010 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1298906150 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2011-February/033695.html < 1298906198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Own the government"? That's a bit of a strong statement :P < 1298906306 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, large corporations do own the goverment. < 1298906362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. But I don't think a single telco has that much power (well, depends how monopolistic its monopoly is). < 1298906389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, some monopolies make sense -- for instance you don't want laying electrical cables to be a free-for-all because it'll turn into a clusterfuck... < 1298906794 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298906840 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298906865 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298906889 0 :alp_y!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1298906891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, there is an even more insane way than Vorpal's to do returns in bash. < 1298906899 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298906960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with a little clusterfuck < 1298907049 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, little clusterfuck no... But clusterfucks have tendency to turn into major clusterfucks. < 1298907095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE CLUSTERFUCKERY < 1298907113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1298907513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, zsh is actually maintained for Windows. < 1298907670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298907858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1298907868 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-127.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298907885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298907931 0 :ominovorol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1298907975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol: hi not oklopol < 1298907989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, APNIC down 0.55. < 1298908058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298908139 0 :ominovorol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not alise < 1298908184 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final for February: 22 323 200 IPv4s (1.330 blocks). < 1298908196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Less than two blocks? < 1298908201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, um, that's quite... quite fast. < 1298908269 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remaining until phase 3: 1.89 blocks + ERX space. < 1298908283 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ERX is about 1.5-1.6 blocks. < 1298908304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fairly fragmented. < 1298908347 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So about 3.4-3.5 blocks total. < 1298908422 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 653 074 IPv6 /48s. < 1298908502 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-186.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298908525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298908682 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.239.229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298908689 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1298908693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298908699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean if my laptop doesn't recognise it's being charged when I plug it in, and the little light on the charger doesn't light up :P < 1298908712 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the battery's still drains) < 1298908718 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the charger is getting power) < 1298908779 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298908812 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is worrying. < 1298909053 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: most likely an open circuit on the charger input < 1298909062 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it making beeping noises and catching fire? < 1298909066 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, no it isn't < 1298909071 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1298909073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was < 1298909080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1298909085 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298909092 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's conceivable that the power light being on on the socket multiplier extension thing doesn't actually mean it's supplying power to the charger. < 1298909108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've kicked it *several* times and it still isn't working. < 1298909118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had to get it replaced, and managed to convince the person at the other end of the phone it was broken and how by explaining all the issues; they finally admitted the problem was likely in the charger not the laptop when I explained that it happened even when the charger wasn't connected to the laptop) < 1298909124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, do you often give advice to people who fail to mention that their hardware is on fire? < 1298909153 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it's just that I've set things on fire more than once, being an electronic engineer (as my first degre) and all < 1298909166 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really get to become a Master of (Electronic) Engineering without blowing up a few diodes by mistake < 1298909192 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think that electrical engineering is primarily about blowing things up. < 1298909211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually doing things is sort of a side effect. < 1298909236 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting them to not blow up can be harder < 1298909239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I assume you also burnt yourself a fair number of times. < 1298909243 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus more intellectually interesting < 1298909247 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually, only twice, IIRC < 1298909251 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both times with a soldering iron < 1298909252 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY TWICE! < 1298909255 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they were only fourth-degree. < 1298909266 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solder iron burns are really minor compared to most other sorts < 1298909277 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Extends through skin, subcutaneous tissue and into underlying muscle and bone" < 1298909279 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice degree. < 1298909295 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you just explode circuits, you're generally at a safe distance < 1298909305 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it's apparently "Painless". < 1298909321 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no example picture :P < 1298909326 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the emergency power shutoff is generally sufficiently far away that you can hit it without being at risk to the fire < 1298909344 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you can generally hit the good old-fashioned off switch without needing the emergency shutoff < 1298909352 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works just as well < 1298909361 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the emergency shutoffs mostly exist to get bumped into by mistake < 1298909371 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, umm, regulations of some sort < 1298909373 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You keep talking ais523_, but all I hear is "we've made it really convenient to blow shit up". < 1298909381 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And safe, too." < 1298909406 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in a student EE lab, you expect the occasional explosion, so you try to reduce the ramifications < 1298909412 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Firefox 4 beta's feedback choices are a bit awkward < 1298909416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Firefox Made Me Happy Because..." < 1298909418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Firefox Made Me Sad Because..." < 1298909437 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask for your users' feelings without being all preschool about it, Mozilla < 1298909440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox Made Me Sad Because it stole forty cakes. < 1298909443 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because it makes me sad and I don't know why < 1298909450 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And that's terrible etc. < 1298909454 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298909478 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox made me sad because I don't know whether I was happy or sad so this menu upset me but now I am only sad and not either sad or happy so I guess the problem is resolved < 1298909504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox made me sad because it murdered my family and raped my dog. < 1298909518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, always the classiest of #esotericers. < 1298909533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Show me on the doll where Firefox touched you." < 1298909547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Extraction failed because download is corrupted" < 1298909553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE: Can't even download Firefox correctly! < 1298910036 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298910114 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298910140 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298910388 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298910477 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1298910642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1298910649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Extraction failed because download is corrupted" < 1298910650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IE: Can't even download Firefox correctly! < 1298910650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What kind of crack-addled monkey designed Firefox 4? < 1298910653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1298910660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems that the power supply issue is actually my extension being messed up < 1298910662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you guess I was back on ais523? timing? < 1298910665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router lost power, I think < 1298910667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tab-complete < 1298910675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after ais523_ leaving) < 1298910677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it hadn't completed, I wouldn't have said hi < 1298910680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298910681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'd assume you'd have left < 1298910696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_ is me on the teaching computers downstairs < 1298910701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was there marking students, but that's finished now < 1298910705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ais523 is my netbook < 1298910733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why ais523_ tends to be relatively uncommunicative while online, and ais523 completely silent while ais523_ is present < 1298910805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a bunch of students seem to be cheating this week < 1298910828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1298910840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they really masters students...? < 1298910851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sound like 14-year-olds < 1298910887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, those are first-years < 1298910891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't most of them, just a subset < 1298910899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is determining just how large the subset is < 1298910911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the exercise was one where there were a few standard ways to solve it < 1298910932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you got things looking the same by chance as well as by maliciousness < 1298911148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1298911154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiddling with the socket made the charger go on < 1298911158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only momentarily < 1298911162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now fiddling with the wire has made it go on < 1298911163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loose connection < 1298911167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not reassuring... < 1298911181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, connections repeatedly going on and off can break things, or at least confuse them < 1298911186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just keeping the laptop in a very specific position for now until it gets its battery back < 1298911193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my laptop, it only confused the battery-is-charging meter < 1298911199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's what happened in my MagSafe tragedy. < 1298911200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried plugging the charger in elsewhere? < 1298911206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is magsafe too :) < 1298911207 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It melted a few days later. < 1298911217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a magsafe? < 1298911219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in another, good extension; it did nothing special < 1298911224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: magsafe = apple power connector < 1298911225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work? < 1298911227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old ones had a tendency to melt < 1298911230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298911230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it didn't < 1298911235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1298911246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the issue's with the plug, or the wires near it < 1298911279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, i swapped the plug for another one (they have pluggable plugs) < 1298911306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then I'll use the typical EE copout and say it's a lose connection somewhere but I don't know where < 1298911321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always take it to Apple to get it serviced, they'll probably just replace it because they can't figure it out either < 1298911324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *loose connection < 1298911327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I like the typo < 1298911331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I will if it melts < 1298911343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before? < 1298911348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 1: if it's solid, don't fix it < 1298911353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Apple charge you for replacements < 1298911362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like £60 for a magsafe because they're scumbags < 1298911369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even during warranty? < 1298911369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not £60. < 1298911379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder if installing another operating system voided my warranty :) < 1298911389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't go for AppleCare, so god knows how long this warranty is < 1298911392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about £80 to get the generic power supply on this Toshiba replaced, but it failed within warranty, luckily < 1298911396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typically it's one year < 1298911406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think 1 year is one of the AppleCare lengths < 1298911417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppleCare is likely more comprehensive than a warranty < 1298911422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1298911456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apple business model item 1: Sell mostly-excellent-quality hardware at reasonable prices for that hardware to give the fanboys a way to defend your prices. Item 2: Sell all the other shit at exorbitant prices with impunity.) < 1298911581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most computer companies have found an even better version of that < 1298911586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same system minus step one < 1298911604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they have a different step one < 1298911606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*item < 1298911624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298911628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Item 1: Sell shitty hardware at exorbitant-for-shit prices that nonetheless end up lower than Apple's because shit is only so expensive. < 1298911655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have to bear in mind computer salesman < 1298911664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*men, presumably < 1298911672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do I _have_ to? < 1298911674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to whom Macs are inferior because they don't come with a free copy of Windows, Office, and Cute Kittens Editing App 2004 (30 days free trial) < 1298911690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that app < 1298911703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, 2004? man, i want 21st century kittens!! < 1298911721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, s/free/hidden-cost/ < 1298911729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1298911752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, nowadays it's become habit to install free trial versions of Office 2009 on new systems < 1298911770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people use them to edit files, and then a month later find they have to pay £200 to be able to open them again < 1298911844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blehh, why has computing become so terrible? < 1298911916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, honestly. < 1298911928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because the masses started getting into it? < 1298911945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irrelevant, they didn't _run_ it < 1298911948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more money in fooling fools. < 1298912001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps it always was terrible, just people didn't complain as much because they were too inexperienced with it to know better < 1298912007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but are the kind of people who pioneered personal computing the kind of people who would want to make a living off fooling people? < 1298912027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but again, they didn't make as much money out of it. < 1298912042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not so sure about that -- who ever complained about pre-installed crapware on an Amiga? < 1298912043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, IBM invented the PC < 1298912048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not personal computing in general < 1298912053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I blame Windows < 1298912064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows killed off non-IBM-PC machines < 1298912075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, peripherals did < 1298912080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC OS, Amiga, etc. all died because of Windows < 1298912084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly < 1298912087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows was originally meant to be cross-platform < 1298912093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but Windows was what people used to communicate with the peripherals < 1298912101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the IBM PC had basically won by that point so Microsoft decided to just support that < 1298912117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1298912119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's around the days of early MS-DOS when there was still serious hardware architecture competition, Windows came much later < 1298912121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I blame IBM then < 1298912127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was almost unusable and considered a joke before version 3 < 1298912137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid holocaustin' PCin' jerks. < 1298912149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("IBM PC: as bad as the Holocaust?") < 1298912155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Windows finally caught on, it was mostly used to try to kill PC-DOS, which was also an IBM PC-based operating system < 1298912156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Random IRC users disagree.) < 1298912170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QDOS! < 1298912179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you Tim Paterson! < 1298912198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you really seem to be getting emotional about this < 1298912209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was a joke < 1298912224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict Tim Paterson hates Microsoft :P < 1298912228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what's happening is that in any mainstream market, 90% or more of people don't have much of a clue of what it's about < 1298912241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so will believe any nonsense the salesmen/media tell them < 1298912260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll get an ancient Acorn and refuse to use anything else ever < 1298912264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at a bank recently, talking to one of the people who banks have to talk to people when it's going to take a long time < 1298912271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does C-INTERCAL run on RISC OS? < 1298912274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and questioning everything he said and reading the small print and so on < 1298912279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1298912283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have been comfortable for him < 1298912284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he said I should become a banker < 1298912287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my neighbour has a functioning Archimedes. < 1298912305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I doubt it runs straight off unmodified on RISC OS < 1298912308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did the archimedes actually run RISC OS? < 1298912312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I consider that a bug < 1298912317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right, it did < 1298912323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used an Acorn in preschool < 1298912328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had no idea how to use it, of course < 1298912334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have actually used RISC OS, by the way; my primary school had it installed on all the computers that weren't BBC Micros) < 1298912342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i remembered it as "the computer where you click the black circle in the corner to exit the (full-screen) program" < 1298912358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had three mouse buttons, didn't it? < 1298912361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1298912367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each had a defined system-wide function < 1298912367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why wouldn't it run on straight RISC OS with a C compiler? < 1298912372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the build system wouldn't run < 1298912381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably incorrect assumptions < 1298912386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely to do with pathnames < 1298912392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how RISC OS merged dialogue boxes, menus, and right-click menus < 1298912407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right-click menus could include textboxes, sliders etc. < 1298912417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. #include "ick.h" is interpreted, on RISC OS, as including :h:ick < 1298912432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't the C compilers hack around that? < 1298912432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think fopen() does the same translation < 1298912436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is the hack around that < 1298912442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1298912450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does foo.c mean in RISC OS natively? < 1298912486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. is there any reason the C compiler wouldn't accept foo.c rather than :c:foo? < 1298912498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, more like .c.foo < 1298912502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think . is the directory separator < 1298912505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and filename limits < 1298912506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1298912517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathname components could only be 6 characters long or something really restrictive like that < 1298912522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But RISC OS deals with it by replacing . with / IIRC. < 1298912524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and filename limits < 1298912525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1298912536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, . and / are swapped, normally, to translate pathnames between UNIX and RISC OS < 1298912536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pathname components could only be 6 characters long or something really restrictive like that ;; I doubt this applied to later versions < 1298912556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you couldn't fit, say, stdlib/h in a filename as it was too long < 1298912562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it had to be .h.stdlib < 1298912599 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does TeX run on that computer? < 1298912607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1298912618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old enough that it may have been ported, but I don't think Acorns were used for typesetting all that much < 1298912645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, apparently the libc on Acorns is in ROM < 1298912649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, the C89-defined stuff) < 1298912667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and separate libraries are used for any POSIX compatibility needed that isn't in C*9 < 1298912670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* C89 < 1298912674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you couldn't fit, say, stdlib/h in a filename as it was too long < 1298912674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so it had to be .h.stdlib < 1298912682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that must be false for later versions < 1298912697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was reading the esoteric list archive and recall some stuff about risc os directory structure < 1298912706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in reply to cpressey inventing orthogonal persistence accidentally) < 1298912711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i swear it had longer filenames < 1298912750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, Cygwin's been ported to RISC OS < 1298912758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1298912763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, re that Worst Programmer guy: < 1298912764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was... unexpected < 1298912775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, as a cross compiler, that's slightly saner < 1298912787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From his perspective, he's kind of right, in that code monkeys really shouldn't be making algorithms. < 1298912824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, their advice is, to install Linux programs on RISC OS, install the modified Cygwin on Windows and use it to translate < 1298912871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?? < 1298912879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that was not what he was saying. < 1298912914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, because he's an idiot. < 1298912984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Se0WU.png < 1298912984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1298912992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, reading the RISC OS wiki, it's not a filename limit but because RISC OS has no concept of extensions, and you often want .c and .h files with the same basename < 1298912995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that upload is terrible but < 1298912996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1298912998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that even be < 1298913004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 giga... what. < 1298913012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... hmm. < 1298913013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIGABIT INTERNET < 1298913014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFF < 1298913021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 128 Mio/s. < 1298913022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISTANCE: < 50 mi < 1298913038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't really matter, it's not on the same network. < 1298913041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1298913115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meanwhile in England... http://www.speedtest.net/result/1177971339.png" < 1298913117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sniff* < 1298913157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok so you know that charger < 1298913161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end plugged into the computer < 1298913163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is piping hot right now < 1298913165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1298913168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not normally piping hot < 1298913175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, jesus, I have only 0.48 upstream. < 1298913177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, normally it's not actually doing any charging and it is now) < 1298913196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chargers can get hot while doing charging < 1298913204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although 8.03 downstream, which just raises further questions. < 1298913210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i realised that was stupid after i said it < 1298913216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ADSL is asynchronous < 1298913230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, I don't think I'm on ADSL... < 1298913239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Cable? < 1298913242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1298913247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asynchronous, I believe. < 1298913258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THIS WORD IS < 1298913265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES YOU DO < 1298913269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ACTUALLY MEAN < 1298913273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASYMMETRIC < 1298913276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M JUST STUPID < 1298913276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298913357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it asynchronous as well? < 1298913369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's clocked just while it's being used, or something like that < 1298913755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1298913771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^nb^n is easier than x|y where x and y are binary and y=x+1, right? < 1298913786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can parse the former without being able to parse the latter < 1298913793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unary is in a sense "easier" to parse than binary... < 1298913804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out offhand how a PDA would do the second, but it can do the first < 1298913811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298913814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1298913815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and y=x < 1298913816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1298913836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^nb^(n+1) is obviously as easy as a^nb^n < 1298913843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1298914013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298914025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298914068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, x|y where x and reverse(y) are equal binaries is easy < 1298914091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X := '0|0' | '1|1' | '0' X '0' | '1' X '1' < 1298914100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y := '0'* X '0'* < 1298914115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: x|y where x == reverse(y)+1 or x+1 == reverse(y) sounds a lot harder < 1298914179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298914372 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298914376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:00 you wrote it in c++? < 1298914376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:08 I'm a C++'er. < 1298914377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:12 That just ain't right < 1298914380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:31 NOT COOL DUDE < 1298914383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:37 bsmntbombdood, as wouter said, ppl who don't like c++ don't understand it < 1298914383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:44 bsmntbombdood: People who don't like C++ --- thanks, oklopol 8-D < 1298914384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:51 :) < 1298914392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor and oklopol, former Nazis. < 1298914399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gregor, current Nazi.) < 1298914402 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eh* < 1298914412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a Nazi? Well, *eh*" < 1298914528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298914555 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298914950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:55:04 People who don't like C++ don't understand it? Lies! < 1298914950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:55:33 I refuse to use any programming language that I cannot code first-order logic theories into! < 1298915037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, you can code first-order logic theories into C++'s TEMPLATE language. < 1298915039 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1298915073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:43:47 i actually made an assignment! :) < 1298915073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:43:53 . . . Yes? < 1298915073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:30 Math. < 1298915074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:41 . . . < 1298915076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:55 i've done maybe 10 in high school if you don't count exams, so i'm very proud -_______- < 1298915079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1298915089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1298915094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:42:15 ya i assigned my foot in yer ass :\ < 1298915094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:11 I had to carry out a derivation manually :OO < 1298915095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:18 verry omg! < 1298915142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i considered implementing reaper. < 1298915152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the syntax put me off a bit :D < 1298915176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the spec is not really finished. < 1298915197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i was just going to implement what you had there ;D. < 1298915198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is supposed to be _worse_ than it seems in the article. < 1298915201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to make cat work < 1298915201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no . < 1298915204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fff, what < 1298915216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1298915237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i see you've missed the fact that you have to end classes with the class name again or whatever < 1298915246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1298915251 0 :boily!~boily@poste160-168.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1298915332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeating class names that way is only necessary to make a prototype declaration... < 1298915333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well whatever :D < 1298915336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298915341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) >>= < 1298915341 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool! < 1298915344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,)( >>=) < 1298915345 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1298915348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (,) (>>=) < 1298915348 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. < 1298915351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ((,) a) (>>=) < 1298915352 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. < 1298915354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you lambdabot < 1298915364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1,2) >> (3,4) < 1298915365 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Base.Monad ((,) t)) < 1298915366 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11234'... < 1298915366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is necessary to do because in reaper, parsing requires you to know the arity of each class < 1298915367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1298915367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298915371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1,2) <$> (3,4) < 1298915372 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' < 1298915372 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(t, t1)' < 1298915376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durr < 1298915379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ <$> (3,4) < 1298915380 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (3,5) < 1298915392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is (a,) a monad? < 1298915406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _could_ be a Writer (if a is a Monoid) < 1298915430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think the instances are in the standard libraries < 1298915447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i have < 1298915450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Sem = Fun (Sem -> (Sem, String)) < 1298915458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to make it, you know, less of a pain to stack applications... < 1298915477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,_) >> (c,d) = (a `mappend` c, d) ? < 1298915479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1298915484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1298915485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1298915498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want (String, Sem). < 1298915570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \(a,x) f -> let (b,y) = f x in (a `mappend` b, y) < 1298915571 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 17): < 1298915571 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "(" < 1298915571 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in" < 1298915574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1298915638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1298915639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:$) :: Sem -> Sem -> (String, Sem) < 1298915642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an invalid type signature < 1298915673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :$ is a constructor < 1298915706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1298915734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm writing a Lazy K implementation) < 1298915741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I questioned some teachers and as such I am having my laptop forcibly removed. Bye for tonight at least, in all probability. < 1298915748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298915777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1298915798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving on to topics other than the fact that PH's parents are clearly insane fools, < 1298915800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combS = Fun $ \x -> Fun $ \y -> Fun $ \z -> x $$ z >>= (flip ($$) <$> (y $$ z)) < 1298915803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT JUST KEEPS GETTING MORE AND MORE READABLE < 1298915867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Functor ((,) a) in Prelude? I think so < 1298915876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols @ Phantom_Hoover < 1298915889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i think it's in Control.Monad.Instances < 1298915919 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the... poor hoover < 1298915931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combS = Fun $ \x -> Fun $ \y -> Fun $ liftM2 (>>=) (x$$) ((flip ($$) <$>) . (y$$)) < 1298915935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Functor ((,) a) -- Defined in Control.Monad.Instances < 1298915944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wow, you made it even better < 1298916013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm it's possible Prelude imports it? < 1298916020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whatevs ;D < 1298916058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci seems to imply so < 1298916071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Sem' against inferred type `m b' < 1298916071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `liftM2', namely `(>>=)' < 1298916072 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, in my language the S combinator is just [1,0] < 1298916074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUESS DEEWIANT SUCKS AT CODING < 1298916078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what lang? < 1298916097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assumed that's (x $$ z) >>= blaa, I guess it's x $$ (z >>= blaa) < 1298916112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/1337 < 1298916153 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the only operator is the X combinator, but you can choose its precedence < 1298916158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's cheating, you have S built in :) < 1298916159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combS = Fun $ \x -> Fun $ \y -> Fun $ (x $$) . ap (>>=) ((flip ($$) <$>) . (y $$)) < 1298916182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That is truly impressively ugly. < 1298916196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snorlax.hs:23:50: < 1298916196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Sem' against inferred type `m a' < 1298916200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298916205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonna, you know, use do notation. < 1298916207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap (>>=) < 1298916208 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => (m a -> a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1298916444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man... Lazy K has ever so slightly fucked up semantics. < 1298916554 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298916751 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181135016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298916978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST NOTICED: < 1298916982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libreoffice = lib reoffice < 1298916986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1298916995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what < 1298917007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libre Office, the spinoff of OpenOffice < 1298917010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1298917011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1298917019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libreoffice, as in the reoffice library. < 1298917021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a library, libreoffice. < 1298917032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1298917052 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. But it creates a naming ambiguity because not everything that starts with "lib" is a library >: ( < 1298917055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this just "everything starting with 'lib' is funny", or is there actually a library called reoffice. < 1298917074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything that starts with "lib" should be a library! D-8 < 1298917078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Libido libraries liberate Libby. < 1298917088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libtool? < 1298917096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1298917125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff, at least libtool has some kind of excuse. < 1298917138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there's any excuse for libtool in the year 2011 :P < 1298917221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rary library < 1298917378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what's a better apply constructor than :$. < 1298917379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO NOISY < 1298917472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> :- :. :\ < 1298917490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1298917496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1298917497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sad < 1298917498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1298917505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay little constructor < 1298917506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1298917510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is going to be alright < 1298917510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298917511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298917512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1298917515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with :$ < 1298917523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *Main> S :$ I :$ I :$ (S :$ I :$ I) < 1298917523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((S :$ I) :$ I) :$ ((S :$ I) :$ I) < 1298917524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noiiiiisy < 1298917546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say so :-P < 1298917559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my font at least :P < 1298917589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why doesn't SII(SII) diverge :P < 1298917759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, power cut out again < 1298917782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might want to declare :$ infixl < 1298917787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1298917791 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298917792 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-188-105.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298917794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a boss. < 1298917799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show just doesn't realise. < 1298917804 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298917805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1298917900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parentheses are only added where needed, ignoring associativity." < 1298917902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1298917979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1298917985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i like how that's a contradiction. < 1298918019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it may obey _precedence_ but not associativity. < 1298918050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but that means it adds parentheses when not needed < 1298918054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it says that parentheses are only added when needed. < 1298918114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298918126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu < 1298918391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: moo < 1298918966 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1298919587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bring that ais fellow back in here < 1298920133 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.237.32.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298921199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1298921718 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-162-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298921747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1298922491 0 :Alex_Meg1roide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298922900 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-146-21.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298922924 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298923105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ead0b15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.11.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298923112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:56:38 Moving on to topics other than the fact that PH's parents are clearly insane fools, < 1298923116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got worse. < 1298923125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banned FOREVER? < 1298923159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Gregor lols @ Phantom_Hoover < 1298923160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what the... poor hoover < 1298923165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Gregor and olsner are both trying to save your life... < 1298923169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd concentrate on olsner. < 1298923174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST A TIP < 1298923184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're now trying to convince me that this is enough to get me kicked out of my (state) school, and that this basically means I'll be on a straight line to the dole queue. < 1298923199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1298923203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth happened? < 1298923214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you stab a teacher or something? :-P < 1298923255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This follows *years* of them trying to get me to stop being so "arrogant" about my abilities by telling me constantly that I have shaky chances of passing my (trivial) exams, and that I won't get into university unless I spend all of my time working.) < 1298923282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Move out before you're 21 or I'll give you the Sgeo treatment. < 1298923314 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virginmedia.com, guessing PH is american then? < 1298923320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Uhhh... no. < 1298923327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Scottish. < 1298923342 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, scottish! I know a scotsman < 1298923348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try SCOTTISH, available from all good retailers! < 1298923383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened was that I confronted a teacher about some dubious claims she had made to my parents, which resulted in them phoning my parents directly and making even *more* dubious claims (read: lies). < 1298923392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious claims? < 1298923405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think I had stabbed a teacher, or at least taken out a knife, the way they're going on about it. < 1298923430 0 :wetneb!~berthe@dan75-6-82-239-12-53.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298923438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Honestly, I used a spoon and everything." < 1298923442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was downright HUMANE!" < 1298923470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are saying that apparently I was "threatening" and that the teacher was "frightened" by me (or at least my mother is saying they did), despite the fact that she showed no signs of any emotion other than outrage at this insubordination. < 1298923527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1298923555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like fun < 1298923704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298923713 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did you do? < 1298923754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why won't your parents protect you against the evil teachers and their lies?? < 1298923820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because they are either really spineless or think that I'm just making trouble and trying to cover for it. < 1298923840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It varies from incident to incident. < 1298923851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298923852 0 :wetneb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1298923852 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1298923874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: ctrl+shift+right click = close channel. < 1298923943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, if I disappear, it's either paranoia or them finding me using another computer and going nuts. < 1298923980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing other people talk about their parents makes me realize my parents are upwards of 87% sane. < 1298924036 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider mine about as sane as me < 1298924060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My parents being 87% sane makes them considerably more sane than me. < 1298924133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So was that disconnect you? < 1298924173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: People don't exactly devote time to saying "Today, my parents were reasonable, sane, liberal, understanding, enlightened individuals and supported me." < 1298924233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MAYBE YOU COULD BE THE FIRST. < 1298924234 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.181.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298924238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298924240 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298924247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, ctrl+shift+right click really does leave the channel. < 1298924255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and just as we're talking about insane parents and those who talk about them, Sgeo arrives. < 1298924257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's mother seems sane enough, although the whole unit thing stops me from envying him. < 1298924270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've mentioned my mother like... thrice < 1298924282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know you have made extensive deductions based on that :P < 1298924325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I should go now. < 1298924328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298924392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1298924400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad keeps saying that I can transfer if I want < 1298924400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1298924937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sad but true... this application has been removed from your computer." --uninstaller < 1298925012 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1298925134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, elliott can't yell at me because I'm ignored. < 1298925341 0 :Alex_Megaroide!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298925414 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@62.237.32.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298925549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298926743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298926788 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298926807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:00 My dad keeps saying that I can transfer if I want < 1298926815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So transfer. < 1298926824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus, if you even have his approval... < 1298926825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can actually sympathise with Sgeo quite a bit... < 1298926839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU SYMPATHISE WITH A COLD, HEARTLESS BEAST OF A MAN* < 1298926844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*COLDNESS, HEARTLESSNESS UNCONFIRMED < 1298926884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\gnu\bin\gunzip: C;/Users/Elliott/c-intercla/C:\gnu\bin/gzip.exe: No such file or directory < 1298926885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1298926932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298926935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, ais' build system is broken < 1298926944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't handle bash 1 on win32 < 1298927057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can configure be used to generate a Makefile appropriate for compiling on another system? pikhq? < 1298927698 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1298927722 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1298927766 0 :Tritonio!~AndChat@178.147.84.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298927912 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1298927952 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-ldffuobeoxjpqvxl JOIN :#esoteric < 1298928119 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1298928219 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298928528 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298928596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298929307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ead0b15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.11.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298929602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298929646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ead0b15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.11.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298929944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298929997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ead0b15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.11.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298930409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04:47 well, there's quite a lot of aztecs in mexico < 1298930410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:05:05 they tend to be very poor < 1298930410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:05:24 they just reject the monetary fantasies of the westerners < 1298930410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:05:40 no, they don't, they're simply poor < 1298930487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1298931615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1298932130 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181135016.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298932411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1298932412 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1298932413 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1298932413 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1298932414 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1298932434 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1298932493 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1298932551 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298933108 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298933131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298933559 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand another B on a math test, simply because I have little ability to pay attention to small details. < 1298933590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of the epsilons < 1298933609 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What gets me by in math (and CS, really) is that I find abstractions *easy*. < 1298933640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does x86-64 itself limit the stack? < 1298933655 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. It has a finite address space. < 1298933663 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aside from that*, no. < 1298933664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :| < 1298933702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So the only worry is it running into other memory, basically... < 1298933709 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1298933770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. IIRC, Linux (and probably any other OS) limits the stack simply by allocating memory to it so that trying to go beyond the stack limit is a page fault. < 1298933781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. < 1298933790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want to fit a Lisp into a boot sector. :p < 1298933807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A boot *sector*? That's going to be hard. < 1298933812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 512 bytes and all. < 1298933822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's more space than you'd think... < 1298933831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual lisp EVAL and APPLY are trivial, can be done in dozens of bytes of machine code. < 1298933838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it's *just* enough space to get a Forth... < 1298933838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parser, more complicated. Keyboard input too, but you can use the BIOS. < 1298933845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be possible. Although without many functions. < 1298933861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Remember, the original EVAL was hand-translated to compact machine code. < 1298933861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you could then Forth you a Lisp. :P < 1298933873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth might be interesting. < 1298933885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Well, Lisp does have the advantage that its data structures are really, really simple. < 1298933908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "data structures" I mean "cons cell". < 1298934260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Exactly. < 1298934271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: All you need are symbols and cons cells. < 1298934275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbol: < 1298934280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1298934282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons: < 1298934287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1298934303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and for symbols you need a simple hash table. But you could just do it as a linked list for simplicity. < 1298934309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even... < 1298934312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...naw :P < 1298934318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Had a terrible idea, realised it wouldn't work.) < 1298934370 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298934422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Forth might be more practical. < 1298934444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yes, Forth is pretty much *ideal* for this use case. < 1298934458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really I just want to pack a language into a bootsector so that assembly becomes completely unnecessary. < 1298934480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., I want to pack an interpreter for some language, plus code to load more sectors and execute them, into 512 bytes. (The code to load and execute more sectors could be Forth, but assembly is likely more practical.) < 1298934480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth does that more-so than others. < 1298934491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the Forth might have to use inline machine-code later on, but if you have peek and poke... < 1298934501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and out/in port instructions. < 1298934507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This is tempting now... < 1298934527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the out/in port instructions could come via peek and poke'ing a word together. < 1298934542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, Forth. < 1298934593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rstudio.org/ <-- Bloody statisticians get nicer tools running on computers than we computer guys do. < 1298934794 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too could use R < 1298934911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, for _programming_? < 1298934913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds painful. < 1298935114 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a C FFI... it's probably not any more painful than using Haskell < 1298935159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Err, I don't know about you but I can get 99% of what I want to do done in Haskell without using the C FFI... < 1298935182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is very geared to statistics only... why would you say Haskell would be as painful? < 1298935192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell isn't even painful to use in general. < 1298935202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it can be on occasion in specific cases. < 1298935551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, I'm thinking a Forth console in 512 bytes is totally doable... < 1298935585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although the memory model might be a pain. I suppose getting into flat-memory-model protected is the best idea. < 1298935595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since even unreal mode requires doing that, and then jumping back out. < 1298935599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately that closes off the BIOS. < 1298935745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cool, there are (were) 512-byte OS contests. < 1298935948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you could actually switch between real and protected mode if you *insist* on accessing the BIOS. < 1298935964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1298935975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just more convenient to start with :P < 1298935993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey, you *can* access the BIOS from unreal mode. < 1298936051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But not protected mode. < 1298936059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unreal mode is just like flat-memory protected mode, but you can cacess the BIOS.) < 1298936111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with 16-bit pointers. < 1298936341 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298936341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no, not 16-bit pointers. Uh... 32-bit pointers, but you generally are only going to have 16-bit data pointers. < 1298936349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, code pointers. < 1298936352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not data. < 1298936383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most interrupts will not preserve the high bits in EIP. < 1298936406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe protected mode would be best :P < 1298936427 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298936457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question now is: You can fit a Forth compiler into 510 bytes (2 for signature), but can you fit peeking, poking, port in/out words, and some sort of machine-code-word-making word, *and* a keyboard interface, into the remaining space? < 1298936473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keyboard code _could_ use the BIOS... except it'd be done in protected mode. < 1298936480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd have to read and write the port manually. < 1298936489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes me think it might bite off more space than is left to chew. < 1298936491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd probably do best fitting your Forth compiler with a load word. < 1298936534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1298936539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But, but, I want to have a 512-byte file that I can "dd" to 512-byte media, put in a 512-byte drive, boot up, and use Forth! < 1298936549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem with getting into protected mode: that's not tiny. < 1298936551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly a very minimal Forth where you get to write all the stdlib yourself. < 1298936571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Protected mode can be done in about 5 instructions + a tiny tiny table, with a sufficiently modern BIOS... < 1298936574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fast A20) < 1298936585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, not fast A20. Is it? It's some BIOS call, anyway. < 1298936593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, newer BIOS features. < 1298936613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: + [ 213982374982374198236 x86 ] ; < 1298936615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or equivalent :P) < 1298937133 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298937356 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298937361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, I wonder how big ColorForth is... < 1298937378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored, what fun can I have with an EFI shell? < 1298937397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coloeForth < 1298937434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, color.com is 64k. < 1298937440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then that's the maximum COM size. < 1298937442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is padded. < 1298937454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should learn colorForth < 1298937473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1298937475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.ultratechnology.com/BOOT.ASM < 1298937476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.ultratechnology.com/COLOR.ASM < 1298937484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't too far off a boot sector...