←2011-02-22 2011-02-23 2011-02-24→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:03 <oerjan> argh
00:00:13 <oerjan> oh duh
00:00:43 <oerjan> ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~)(:^)(::**)^^
00:00:43 <fungot> ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^
00:01:11 <oerjan> there you go, just adjust the church numeral at end. and change the ( )S to using newline if you like.
00:01:12 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:01:30 <Ilari> Also looks like so far the biggest value for 30-day sliding window allocations occured 10th this month: 25 086 464 (1.495 blocks)
00:01:38 <oerjan> oh and you can of course change the initial data as well
00:02:53 <elliott_> oerjan: bigger church numeral = moar longer?
00:03:24 <oerjan> yeah it's number of lines produced
00:03:43 <elliott_> oerjan: instant even with n=101 here :P
00:03:46 <elliott_> i'll try 1001
00:04:18 <elliott_> 0.319s for 1001
00:04:43 <elliott_> oerjan: possibly i should try another interp to compare :D
00:05:02 <Ilari> 20M per 30 days would deplete the pool in about 100 days (which would be in beginning of June, before the IPv6 day).
00:06:54 <elliott_> !info
00:06:58 <elliott_> !help
00:07:04 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
00:07:04 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null
00:09:39 <elliott_> oerjan: oddly, derlo appears to do UTF-8
00:09:47 <oerjan> heh
00:10:09 <oerjan> maybe it's for the underlambda part
00:10:11 <elliott_> hmm, maybe i'll adopt its model of one structure and just ignore the HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PADDING that'll imply
00:10:16 <elliott_> oerjan: the underlambda part does fuck all, AFAICT
00:10:22 <elliott_> it's identical to the underload part
00:10:25 <oerjan> oh
00:10:53 <oerjan> <elliott> today i discovered the meaning of overengineering
00:11:06 <oerjan> i am not entirely sure of the tone of this comment :D
00:11:19 <elliott_> oerjan: >_>
00:11:38 <elliott_> $ ./derlo benchmark.ul
00:11:38 <elliott_> ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^:: ^:^::*** glibc detected *** ./derlo: double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x0000000001409990 ***
00:11:42 <elliott_> lol ais can't code xD
00:11:53 <oerjan> WELL DO YOU THINK IT'S OVERENGINEERED, OR DO YOU THINK I WAS EXAGGERATING
00:12:08 <elliott_> oerjan: HMM LET ME THINK
00:12:11 <elliott_> DEFINITELY OVERENGINEERED
00:12:14 <oerjan> O KAY
00:12:25 * oerjan bounces happily
00:13:26 <oerjan> elliott_: huh about that error
00:13:49 <oerjan> !underload (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~)(:^)(::**)^^
00:14:18 <oerjan> hm i guess if it crashes EgoBot may not tell
00:14:32 <elliott_> !c printf("");
00:14:36 <elliott_> IIRC it says even when there's just no output
00:14:38 <elliott_> so no response at all == bad
00:14:42 <oerjan> ok
00:14:45 <elliott_> !c printf("ducks\n");
00:14:51 <elliott_> oerjan: or, it is just lagged.
00:15:02 <elliott_> Okaaaaaay, this array-based representation definitely won't work. But I'll stick with it FOR NOW
00:15:03 <oerjan> like always
00:15:45 <elliott_> obj ***stk
00:15:48 <elliott_> THREE-STAR PROGRAMMER \o/
00:15:48 <myndzi> |
00:15:48 <myndzi> /<
00:16:26 -!- copumpkin has joined.
00:18:35 <oerjan> the look-and-say implementation could use large numerals (with a slight adjustment to the output routine), although 1,2,3 will of course end up dominating pretty soon
00:24:30 <elliott_> ok derlo is inasne
00:24:30 <elliott_> *insane
00:24:39 <elliott_> i'm pretty sure it has the capacity in its code to push a stack to the stack.
00:25:04 <oerjan> well that _would_ be useful for those continuations, wouldn't it
00:27:47 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:28:37 <oerjan> ^ul ((:*):*:*:*~^)::**((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!(9)(!(X)(a:^*):^)))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
00:28:37 <fungot> ...unterminated (!
00:28:41 <oerjan> eek
00:28:45 <pikhq> Wooops, seems that Gaddafi decided to do the one thing that could bring about US involvement.
00:28:57 <pikhq> He's sabotaging the oil in Libya.
00:29:04 <pikhq> And as you know, the oil must flow.
00:29:10 <elliott_> pikhq: what, did he insult obama's dress sense?
00:29:16 <elliott_> did he bore the translator to death?
00:29:22 <elliott_> WE MUST KNOW
00:29:26 <pikhq> elliott_: HE'S STOPPING THE OIL.
00:29:29 <elliott_> SHUT UP
00:29:33 <elliott_> THAT'S NOT A FUN ANSWER
00:30:07 <pikhq> But the spice must flow!
00:30:09 <pikhq> Erm, oil!
00:30:23 <oerjan> ^ul ((:*):*:*:*~^)::**((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!(9)(!(X)(a:^*):^))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
00:30:24 <fungot> XXX, 3X, 131X, 1113111X, 3113311X ...out of time!
00:30:33 <oerjan> duh
00:30:43 <oerjan> ^ul ((:*):*:*:*~^()~^)::**((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!(9)(!(X)(a:^*):^))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
00:30:44 <fungot> X1X1X1, 1X111X111X11, 111 ...out of time!
00:30:52 <pikhq> Aaand there goes the US dollar, I bet...
00:31:01 <pikhq> China is switching the yuan to the gold standard.
00:31:21 <oerjan> elliott_: there, look and say adjusted to start with (256)1(256)1(256)1
00:31:43 <oerjan> <pikhq> China is switching the yuan to the gold standard. <-- um seriously?
00:31:45 <elliott_> oerjan: does LAS actually do any arithmetic?
00:31:53 <pikhq> oerjan: Yes, seriously.
00:31:54 <oerjan> elliott_: er perhaps not
00:32:00 <elliott_> oerjan: :D
00:32:10 <pikhq> oerjan: They are actually in the process of getting large quantities of gold to back the yuan.
00:33:00 <Sgeo> Woo
00:33:08 <elliott_> "whoops, we bought too much gold and now we're bankrupt"
00:33:08 <Sgeo> Made my first edit to Wikipedia since a while ago
00:33:28 <pikhq> elliott_: Well, swapping USD for Au is probably not that hard.
00:34:29 * pikhq wonders about the wisdom of basing your currency on a foreign currency.
00:34:36 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
00:38:33 -!- TLUL has joined.
00:39:07 <elliott_> hey oerjan if you don't write a haskell->c converter i'm going to guilt you SO MUCH
00:39:49 <oerjan> i'm sorry but _that_ sort of work repels guilt pretty effectively :D
00:40:44 <oerjan> also there were some people from glasgow who already did a bit of that, i hear
00:40:53 <copumpkin> elliott_: JHC?
00:41:01 <oerjan> or that.
00:41:17 <elliott_> copumpkin: i mean something that ditches all the laziness and just translates it fairly directly so i don't have to do all this mechanical crap :p
00:41:21 <elliott_> i might try compiling this code with jhc though.
00:41:22 <elliott_> uh.
00:41:29 <elliott_> doubt jhc has reallyUnsafePointerEquality# though
00:41:35 <copumpkin> why ditch the laziness?
00:41:38 <elliott_> *Ptr
00:41:41 <copumpkin> and why are you using that thing?
00:41:48 <elliott_> copumpkin: efficiency :-D
00:41:51 <elliott_> instance Eq Obj where
00:41:52 <elliott_> p == q = eq || p' == q'
00:41:52 <elliott_> where eq = I# (reallyUnsafePtrEquality# p q) == 1
00:41:58 <copumpkin> wtf
00:42:02 <elliott_> (==) was a bit of a bottleneck beforehand. still is.
00:42:08 <elliott_> this makes it... better.
00:42:17 * copumpkin writes off elliott_
00:42:18 <elliott_> stop looking at me like that. i'm perfectly sane. probably.
00:42:28 <elliott_> copumpkin: In my defence,
00:42:30 <elliott_> toQ :: Obj -> Obj
00:42:30 <elliott_> toQ (Church _ p) = p
00:42:30 <elliott_> toQ (Catn p q) = Quote (xs++ys) where Quote xs = toQ p; Quote ys = toQ q
00:42:42 <elliott_> ...when your Rept's n is over 65536, this can be a teensy bit slow.
00:42:56 <copumpkin> how is that even valid syntax?
00:43:03 <oerjan> AND THIS RABBIT THAT ONLY I CAN SEE AGREES
00:43:07 <elliott_> copumpkin: how is what even valid syntax?
00:43:13 <copumpkin> an uppercase Quote there
00:43:23 <elliott_> copumpkin: where?
00:43:26 <elliott_> you mean
00:43:27 <elliott_> <elliott_> Quote p' = toQ p
00:43:27 <elliott_> <elliott_> Quote q' = toQ q
00:43:27 <elliott_> ?
00:43:32 <elliott_> that's pattern matching, you dolt
00:43:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:43:46 <copumpkin> where Quote xs = toQ p; Quote ys = toQ q
00:43:49 <elliott_> that's pattern matching, you dolt
00:44:03 <copumpkin> Quote would have to be a constructor o.O
00:44:12 <elliott_> copumpkin: ...it is
00:44:18 <elliott_> why is that surprising?
00:44:45 <copumpkin> is that haskell?
00:44:53 <elliott_> copumpkin: ...yes...
00:44:57 <elliott_> What exactly is giving you problems here?
00:45:09 <elliott_> Obj is my own data type, if that helps...
00:45:19 <copumpkin> yes, but....
00:45:34 <copumpkin> if you write "where f pat1 pat2 = expr"
00:45:40 <copumpkin> f must be lowercase, because it's a function, not a constructor
00:45:50 <elliott_> copumpkin: "where x:xs = f x y"
00:45:53 <elliott_> you agree that this is valid?
00:45:58 <copumpkin> no
00:46:04 <copumpkin> oh I see
00:46:07 <elliott_> copumpkin: welcome to: you are wrong, population: you
00:46:21 <copumpkin> it's an irrefutable match
00:46:23 <elliott_> sheesh oerjan, you write half of the haskell report and then these upstart #haskell ops go shit all over it, how does that make you feel? :(
00:46:25 <oerjan> elliott_: oh don't be so harsh on him, there are many more people there
00:46:38 <copumpkin> man, what a brain fart
00:46:42 <elliott_> copumpkin: heh. does using agda make you forget that you can do things without default cases? :D
00:46:49 <copumpkin> lol, I guess
00:46:56 <elliott_> i'm sooo tempted to hpaste this and link it in #hakell
00:47:33 <oerjan> copumpkin: strictly speaking Quote is not the only constructor of Obj but toQ is obviously designed to only return results using that one
00:47:50 <copumpkin> elliott_: that's fine :P
00:48:20 <elliott_> oerjan: yeah toQ should arguably return [Op]
00:48:27 <elliott_> i didn't realise it always would when i first wrote it
00:48:43 <oerjan> hm
00:49:20 <elliott_> yes ghc, warm my lap as you compile your enemy!
00:50:15 <elliott_> copumpkin: if it absolves me of my unsafe sins, i don't even use unsafeCoerce anywhere
00:50:17 <elliott_> or unsafePerformIO
00:50:44 <copumpkin> oh that's good
00:50:56 <copumpkin> unsafePtrEquality is often going to be false though, even when it should be true
00:50:59 <copumpkin> why not a stable name?
00:51:05 <copumpkin> it'd be a bit more stable
00:51:13 <copumpkin> I guess it doesn't quite work for yhou
00:51:16 <elliott_> copumpkin: thus why I do
00:51:18 <elliott_> p == q = eq || p' == q'
00:51:27 <elliott_> i.e. it just doesn't bother checking if p definitely equals q
00:51:29 <elliott_> which is the case for :*
00:51:31 <copumpkin> oh I see
00:51:32 <elliott_> (duplicate, concatenate)
00:51:55 <elliott_> copumpkin: I would argue that this should be a "standard" GHC optimisation, but if some fool defines "_ == _ = False" then it'd change semantics...
00:52:48 <elliott_> What, jhc doesn't support bang patterns?
00:54:24 <copumpkin> they're not in the standard :P
00:55:45 <elliott_> copumpkin: But, but, it's all OMG PERFORMANCE.
00:55:59 <copumpkin> OMG PERFORMANCE indeed
00:56:11 <elliott_> copumpkin: Do I sense a SCEPTIC.
00:56:39 <copumpkin> ANTISCEPTIC
01:05:12 <Sgeo> I'm almost tempted to learn Clojure
01:05:15 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
01:05:32 <Lymia> Clojure.
01:05:33 <Lymia> Sounds fun.
01:07:09 <pikhq> Sgeo: Insufficiently pure.
01:07:14 <pikhq> There is only lambda!
01:10:26 <elliott_> Lymia: Java. Community is idiotic. Meh.
01:11:08 <Lymia> elliott_, Closure community can't be worse that your typical Lisp-like community... right?
01:11:11 <Lymia> 's*
01:11:13 <elliott_> *Clojure, and it is.
01:11:27 <elliott_> Because idiots see it and think "OOH JAVA LIBRARIES" and latch on to it.
01:11:46 <Lymia> Can't say that isn't useful
01:11:46 <Lymia> =p
01:11:55 <elliott_> Lymia: Their IRC channel have argued that O(log_32 n) != O(log n), or something of the sort, I forget what. Arguments included "WELL IT'S NOT TRUE IN THEORY, BUT IT IS WHEN RUN ON A MACHINE".
01:12:09 <elliott_> I suspect that computer science may be doomed.
01:12:12 <Sgeo> I'm thinking "Ooh, that criticism of Racket that I saw in Racket vs Clojure makes sense, and I like the idea of STM, and I like immutability stuff"
01:12:31 <elliott_> Anyway we shouldn't be encouraging Sgeo's weekly language fetish with discussion.
01:12:52 <Lymia> elliott_, I'm not even in college yet, so... can't exactly say much about that subject.
01:12:57 <Lymia> I assume in theory it's not?
01:13:10 <elliott_> Lymia: It plain isn't. (And I'm not in university either.)
01:13:13 <Sgeo> Community sucking != language sucking
01:13:15 <elliott_> O(kn) = O(n) if k is constant.
01:13:21 <elliott_> log_32 n = base 32 logarithm of n
01:13:23 <elliott_> = log(n)/log(32)
01:13:28 <elliott_> = 1/log(32) * log(n)
01:13:30 <Sgeo> O(log_32 n) = O(log n / log 32...darn you
01:13:39 <Lymia> And 1/log(32) is a constant.
01:13:39 <Lymia> =p
01:13:40 <elliott_> Since 1/log(32) is constant, O(1/log(32) * log(n)) = O(log n) and therefore O(log_32 n) = O(log n).
01:13:42 <Lymia> Makes sense.
01:13:55 <elliott_> Theory vs. practice does not even begin to come into it; big-O notation Does Not Work That Way.
01:14:13 -!- tvs_ has joined.
01:14:19 <elliott_> And since Clojure is one of the purer and more functional of the Lisps (ostensibly) you'd expect their understanding of computer science to be a bit better.
01:14:32 <elliott_> (Ignorance is perfectly acceptable, but being sure about something that's blatantly incorrect isn't.)
01:14:39 <pikhq> ... O() notation is entirely theoretical. Jeebus.
01:14:42 <Lymia> It integrates with Java's libraries, and it's considered one of the purer Lisps?
01:14:57 <elliott_> Lymia: Well, it's concurrency-oriented, and its most common data structures are immutable.
01:15:15 <elliott_> The language itself is not entirely without merit, but JVM languages don't interest me in the slightly.
01:15:26 <elliott_> *slightest.
01:15:58 <oerjan> <elliott_> copumpkin: But, but, it's all OMG PERFORMANCE. <-- um bang patterns are entirely syntactic sugar
01:16:10 <elliott_> oerjan: But people who are OMG PERFORMANCE will USE BANG PATTERNS!
01:16:23 <elliott_> (Bang patterns: porn with OCD.)
01:16:52 <elliott_> Someone remind me to name my next esolang Ejuzarih.
01:16:57 <elliott_> Maybe I'll call my lazy concatenative language that.
01:18:06 <oerjan> <elliott_> Lymia: Their IRC channel have argued that O(log_32 n) != O(log n), or something of the sort, I forget what. <-- reminds me of some quote to the effect that O(log log n) is constant time (implying, in practice)
01:18:25 <elliott_> oerjan: Maybe if their tongues were firmly in their cheeks I'd forgive them :P
01:19:07 <Lymia> Hey!
01:19:21 <Lymia> O(1) is much slower than O(n!) for large enough values of O.
01:19:28 <Lymia> Like...
01:19:32 <elliott_> HURF DURF
01:19:39 <Lymia> for(;;) {}
01:19:40 <Lymia> See!
01:20:11 <elliott_> Lymia: (Anyway, it doesn't take a university education to understand big O notation; for time, O(...) simply means: calculating f(x) takes time proportional to k*... for some k.)
01:20:14 <elliott_> Err, that's a bit awkwardly worded.
01:20:23 <Lymia> I know that much.
01:20:30 <elliott_> Well, that's all there is to it.
01:20:36 <Lymia> I know the general idea, just not the details.
01:20:37 <Lymia> =p
01:20:50 <Lymia> Plus, I'm not in much of a thinking mood today, so...
01:21:02 <Lymia> (Blame me waking up at 8AM after going to bed at 3AM)
01:21:02 <elliott_> PSHT THEN WHY ARE YOU IN #ESOTERIC, THE MOST INTELLECTUAL CHANNEL ON ALL IRC
01:21:11 * Lymia hides
01:21:20 * elliott_ DONS TOP HAT WHAT HO
01:21:29 * Lymia puts elliott_ in a frilly dress~
01:21:32 <oerjan> HERP DERP
01:21:40 <elliott_> THAT IS NOT SUITABLE ACCOMPANIMENT TO A TOP HAT
01:21:55 <Lymia> Yes it is.
01:22:08 <elliott_> BY WHAT LOGIC
01:22:25 <Lymia> Frilly dresses go with everything
01:22:34 <elliott_> YOUR LOGIC IS NOT COMPELLING
01:22:44 * Lymia removes tophat
01:22:51 <elliott_> :|
01:25:54 <Sgeo> Just because some Clojure people are idiots doesn't mean they all are
01:26:16 <Sgeo> The only criticism I know of against the language itself is that it's not Lisp all the way down
01:26:31 <Sgeo> Oh, and no TCO partly due to that
01:26:37 <Sgeo> Which sucks major suckage
01:28:47 <Lymia> Sgeo, recursion resulting a stack overflow?
01:28:48 <Lymia> Fun!
01:30:21 <elliott_> oerjan: hm I think my impl is quite unique among underload interpreters as distinguishing between code and data sort of
01:30:27 <elliott_> except that code pushes data which will later be treat as code :)
01:30:45 <Sgeo> <***someone***> Sgeo: in the mean time there are solid tools to write tail-call style code, and it performs at least as well as Racket (which isn't slow) as far I can tell.
01:31:14 <elliott_> hmm, 28 bytes per object...might be acceptable
01:33:14 <Lymia> elliott.
01:33:27 <Lymia> Write an underload interpreter in Underload.
01:33:30 <Lymia> Without the eval operator.
01:33:49 <elliott_> Lymia: Every program in Underload uses the eval operator.
01:33:50 <elliott_> It is unavoidable.
01:33:55 <Lymia> :(
01:34:00 <Lymia> Without running eval on the input?
01:34:31 <elliott_> Underload has no input.
01:34:33 * elliott_ snarkin'
01:35:23 * Lymia hugs elliott_ <3
01:40:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
01:40:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:45:44 <elliott_> r->t=CHURCH; r->i=p->i*q->i; r->p=cat(p->p,q->p);
01:45:55 <elliott_> I REFUSE TO LET THIS PROGRAM BE 100X LONGER THAN THE EQUIVALENT HASKELL
01:48:53 <elliott_> oerjan: hm i'm not going to get very good structure sharing if (a)(b)* duplicates a, am i...
01:49:00 <elliott_> oh wait, it will end up duplicating b, as well
01:55:45 * variable is writing a Piet interpreter in python
01:56:35 <elliott_> OK, derlo is utterly incomprehensible
01:56:58 <elliott_> oerjan: i don't think derlo does structure sharing. well it does. but how can it...
01:57:17 <elliott_> afaict, (a)(X):(*)dip(y)* should make the (aX) become (AXy)
01:57:20 <elliott_> *(aXy)
02:03:08 -!- yorick has joined.
02:11:08 <Gregor> Deewiant: Hm ... is allegro also a train?
02:11:13 <Deewiant> Yese
02:11:14 <Deewiant> -e
02:11:20 <Gregor> Oh :P
02:11:47 <Gregor> I actually looked up pendolino, but with allegro I assumed you'd dropped the train vibe and went with tempos (or more broadly musical terms) instead for some reason :P
02:12:22 <Deewiant> Yes, I was a bit hesitant about the name for that reason :-P
02:14:26 <elliott_> I can't wait until Deewiant has to start trainspotting to come up with new names
02:14:41 <pikhq_> So, I apparently have free Amazon instant streaming.
02:15:22 <pikhq_> (because I have free Amazon Prime)
02:15:51 <elliott_> ...I could use catn for the stack... NO, elliott, bad elliott.
02:16:44 <pikhq_> If only it offered anything over Netflix, which I have *effectively* for free, as well.
02:17:50 <pikhq_> Ah well. More of this "viable business model for video" thing.
02:18:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
02:21:43 <oerjan> <elliott_> oerjan: i don't think derlo does structure sharing. well it does. but how can it... <-- maybe it just shares quoted elements, that might help too
02:21:57 <elliott_> oerjan: what do you mean?
02:24:24 <oerjan> <<elliott_> afaict, (a)(X):(*)dip(y)* should make the (aX) become (AXy) <-- no, it would afaict make (aX)(Xy)
02:24:35 <elliott_> oerjan: I mean in derlo
02:24:40 <elliott_> if it did structure-sharing
02:24:42 <elliott_> properly, that is
02:24:45 <elliott_> so i conclude that it doesn't
02:25:42 <oerjan> um i mean the program produces (aX)(Xy), so obviously there should be no (aXy) there
02:26:09 <elliott_> oerjan: no shit
02:26:16 <elliott_> oerjan: it was how i decided that derlo can't do proper structure sharing
02:26:31 <elliott_> oerjan: because if it did it would produce that
02:26:54 * oerjan has no idea what elliott_ is talking about
02:27:12 <elliott_> oerjan: wtf is hard to understand about this?!?!
02:27:15 <elliott_> I looked at derlo's structures
02:27:17 <elliott_> and concluded that
02:27:19 <elliott_> if it did full structure sharing
02:27:24 <elliott_> (a)(X):(*)dip(y)*
02:27:26 <oerjan> elliott_: for the former, i mean if it concatenates ((a)b) and (c) then it might not share the top level of ((a)bc) but the (a) would still be shared
02:27:31 <elliott_> would have the INCORRECT BEHAVIOUR
02:27:43 <elliott_> oerjan: right, so the (a) would be shared
02:27:46 <elliott_> so concatenating (y) on to it
02:27:50 <elliott_> would affect the other (a) too
02:27:54 <elliott_> with derlo's structure
02:28:29 <oerjan> elliott_: well you obviously cannot do proper structure sharing if all your list are arrays of each element in it
02:28:37 <elliott_> oerjan: what?
02:28:49 <elliott_> oerjan: I have no idea what you are talking about
02:28:50 <oerjan> elliott_: what is derlo's structure anyway
02:29:05 <elliott_> typedef struct tag_el {
02:29:05 <elliott_> int_least32_t val; /* character, or a special value if negative */
02:29:05 <elliott_> size_t refcount; /* reference count from inner, next, or globals */
02:29:13 <elliott_> if ->inner=x, and x is also on the stack, and you set x->next
02:29:21 <elliott_> then ->inner->next will be set too
02:29:26 <elliott_> of some random element containing x
02:30:35 <oerjan> anyway structure sharing is obviously incompatible with mutation
02:30:40 <elliott_> argh
02:30:41 <elliott_> it did not send the structure
02:30:45 <elliott_> <elliott_> typedef struct tag_el {
02:30:45 <elliott_> <elliott_> int_least32_t val; /* character, or a special value if negative */
02:30:45 <elliott_> <elliott_> size_t refcount; /* reference count from inner, next, or globals */
02:30:50 <elliott_> <elliott_> } el
02:30:54 <elliott_> fuck
02:30:56 <elliott_> fuckity fuck
02:30:58 <elliott_> ---START HERE
02:31:00 <elliott_> <elliott_> typedef struct tag_el {
02:31:02 <elliott_> <elliott_> int_least32_t val; /* character, or a special value if negative */
02:31:04 <elliott_> <elliott_> size_t refcount; /* reference count from inner, next, or globals */
02:31:06 <elliott_> <elliott_> /* this counts the number of locations referencing, even if they're
02:31:07 <elliott_> <elliott_> referenced multiple times themselves they only count as 1 */
02:31:09 <elliott_> <elliott_> struct tag_el* next; /* the element after this one */
02:31:12 <elliott_> <elliott_> struct tag_el* inner; /* the element inside this one, if val is negative */
02:31:14 <elliott_> <elliott_> } el;
02:31:16 <elliott_> <elliott_> if ->inner=x, and x is also on the stack, and you set x->next
02:31:18 <elliott_> <elliott_> then ->inner->next will be set too
02:31:19 <elliott_> <elliott_> of some random element containing x
02:31:24 <elliott_> oerjan: well exactly.
02:31:25 <elliott_> oerjan: but the point is that mutation is what derlo does
02:31:37 <oerjan> elliott_: yeah i guessed
02:31:42 <elliott_> although not always, i guess:
02:31:42 <elliott_> /* Tailcat optimisation: if nothing else is using the stack
02:31:42 <elliott_> element we're catting to, just change its next pointer to do
02:31:56 <oerjan> aha
02:32:08 <elliott_> oerjan: what i'm trying to say is, fuck derlo is twisty.
02:32:49 <oerjan> ok so it does structure sharing only with unique values
02:33:00 <oerjan> sounds like Clean :D
02:33:39 <elliott_> oerjan: btw have i rambled to you yet about my idea for a lazy concatenative language
02:33:49 <oerjan> vaguely possibly
02:33:55 <elliott_> oerjan: that's a no then. may I? :-P
02:35:00 <oerjan> i mean i vaguely recall something about someone mentioning evaluating a concatenative language like that
02:35:03 <oerjan> recently
02:35:15 <oerjan> that's evaluation from the end, naturally
02:35:24 <elliott_> oerjan: oh, that was me about underload
02:35:31 <elliott_> yeah, i'm talking about left-to-right, normal style
02:35:41 <elliott_> oerjan: it's really quite simple -- we make the language typed like Cat, so the stack effect of any word is known
02:35:52 <elliott_> now consider a word "foo" taking two params and pushing one
02:35:53 <elliott_> and this program
02:35:59 <elliott_> 1 2 3 foo 4
02:36:04 <elliott_> now this trace, with "stack|prog":
02:36:07 <elliott_> 1 | 2 3 foo 4
02:36:10 <elliott_> 1 2 | 3 foo 4
02:36:15 <elliott_> 1 2 3 | foo 4
02:36:27 <elliott_> 1 <2 wide -- [2 3 foo]> | 4
02:36:29 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
02:36:29 <elliott_> 1 <2 wide -- [2 3 foo]> 4 |
02:36:50 <elliott_> oerjan: basically you gobble up the top N stack elements into a quotation, put the word in, and then mark the result number of stack elements with the sufficient number of placeholders
02:36:53 <oerjan> ah if you have typed stack effects you can sometimes look at other stack elements without evaluating an intervening program
02:37:00 <elliott_> precisely
02:37:13 <elliott_> obviously, looking inside that 2 wide will turn it into e.g.
02:37:21 <elliott_> 1 (2:...) (3:...) 4
02:37:31 <elliott_> (if we say that foo is "put both args into infinite lists")
02:37:37 <elliott_> and so on
02:37:50 <oerjan> hm there might even be a way to do this without types
02:38:11 <elliott_> oerjan: well if you can determine how many pops and pushes a word does (in sum, that is) without evaluating it then sure
02:38:14 <oerjan> if foo returned a promise to the stack instead of evaluating completely
02:38:19 <elliott_> oerjan: basically i want to make a purely-functional, lazy concatenative language
02:38:23 <elliott_> to show that it can be as elegant as haskell
02:38:24 <oerjan> a promise of an element
02:38:37 <elliott_> oerjan: well, indeed
02:38:45 <elliott_> oerjan: but that's basically manual types and laziness
02:38:50 <elliott_> you push your "type"
02:38:52 <oerjan> hm probably
02:38:55 <elliott_> which also serves as the lazy value
02:39:54 <elliott_> hmm my "a" is a bit heavy-weight
02:40:27 <elliott_> x -> {type=QUOTE, p={{type=PUSH, value=x}}}
02:40:42 <elliott_> i wonder if I could benefit from an "enclose" object type
02:40:57 <elliott_> I'd try it, except that it won't work for parsed programs
02:41:01 <elliott_> well i could maybe make it work.
02:41:05 <elliott_> i'll try it out.
02:43:22 <elliott_> /* Tailcat optimisation on the call stack; replace the return at
02:43:22 <elliott_> the end of the called code with a goto, as long as it isn't
02:43:22 <elliott_> used anywhere else */
02:43:36 <elliott_> oerjan: heh derlo is a bit insane...
02:43:42 <elliott_> oerjan: it seems it actually optimises that for /later/ as well as now
02:43:54 <elliott_> oh wait
02:43:58 <elliott_> ^ actually cats the program rather than recursing
02:47:20 <elliott_> oerjan: I think relief-in-C is shaping up quite well; I'm dreading porting your church function though
02:47:32 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
02:51:17 <elliott_> oerjan: can i get a grant for this research
02:51:31 <oerjan> not from me, sorry
02:54:29 <oerjan> i assume you understand the general idea of what church' does
02:58:32 <elliott_> oerjan: well GENERAL
02:59:33 -!- augur has joined.
03:00:40 <elliott_> oerjan: may i just say that i am NOT thrilled at the idea of having to use bignums in c
03:00:48 <oerjan> hm
03:00:59 <elliott_> shit, i swear to god, this is the one program that would be more convenient in C++ than C
03:01:21 <Gregor> O_O
03:01:33 <Gregor> How 'bout Vala :P
03:01:37 <elliott_> Gregor: No, seriously, it would be
03:02:05 <elliott_> Gregor: I have what is EXACTLY a subtyping relationship of a few structs (that I am currently wasting memory and mushing together by making them one struct and reappropriating one field for various things).
03:02:12 <Gregor> If you do use C++, you should use WTF instead of STL.
03:02:19 <elliott_> Gregor: I have a requirement to use bignums, and of course operator overloading would help.
03:02:30 <elliott_> I have functions that have wildly different behaviour depending on the type field of their arguments.
03:02:41 <elliott_> OK, so really what it's suited for is Haskell.
03:02:47 <elliott_> But I'm trying to micro-optimise here :P
03:03:48 <elliott_> Gregor: Is WTF actually a thing.
03:04:07 <elliott_> Oh, a WebKit thing :-P
03:04:09 <Gregor> elliott_: WTF is the Webkit Template Framework
03:04:12 <elliott_> Hmm, theory: People who don't know C++ are better C++ programmers than C++ programmers.
03:04:23 <elliott_> Because, man... C++ is terrible.
03:10:52 <pikhq_> elliott_: Exception, Our Lord Oleg.
03:11:08 <pikhq_> But, well, Oleg is better than you.
03:12:00 <elliott_> oerjan: erm wait what's the cat formula for (a)(b)^ church numerals again
03:12:03 <elliott_> a, repeated b times?
03:12:03 <Sgeo> MY EYES
03:12:08 <Sgeo> MY POOR USELESS EYES
03:12:09 <Sgeo> http://people.csail.mit.edu/jrb/goo/
03:12:30 <pikhq_> THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING
03:13:55 <elliott_> pikhq_: ?
03:14:03 <oerjan> elliott_: yes
03:14:14 * Sgeo sads at elliott_ ignorage
03:14:40 <pikhq_> elliott_: Sgeo linkage.
03:14:43 <elliott_> oh
03:15:06 <pikhq_> elliott_: Nothing NSFW or eye-bleachy, just a painful color scheme.
03:15:08 <Gregor> That page would be totally unoffensive if the text was in a box with a solid background, and the weird background was behind that.
03:15:28 <elliott_> if(x->t==CHURCH) {
03:15:29 <elliott_> y=new(); y->t=CHURCH; y->i=1;
03:15:29 <elliott_> for(size_t i=0; i<o->i; i++) y->i *= x->i;
03:15:33 <elliott_> }
03:15:35 <elliott_> equivalent haskel
03:15:37 <elliott_> *haskell
03:15:39 <elliott_> call (Church n p) !(Church m q : xs) = return (Church (m^n) (Rept n q) : xs)
03:15:41 <elliott_> fuuuuuck C
03:15:49 <elliott_> oh and the haskell does bignums too obviously. because haskell is a real language
03:16:14 <elliott_> not a pdp assembler with an identity crisis after a sex - sorry, syntax change
03:16:24 <elliott_> pikhq_: Oh, the Goo site.
03:16:26 <elliott_> I *like* it.
03:16:27 <elliott_> Well, okay.
03:16:30 <elliott_> So the text isn't particularly readable.
03:16:37 <elliott_> But it has CHARM.
03:16:50 <elliott_> Sgeo: Goo hasn't been updated since 2005. (gotta keep Sgeo away from all the intelligent languages)
03:16:55 <pikhq_> Geocities chic?
03:17:03 <elliott_> pikhq_: :(
03:17:06 <pikhq_> You'd fucking *love* Japanese websites, then.
03:17:06 <elliott_> you make such horrible statements!
03:17:58 <pikhq_> Seriously, I'm convinced the Japanese forget about graphic design when they get on the Internet.
03:18:37 <pikhq_> Maybe it has something to do with how Japanese Geocities still exists?
03:19:23 <Ilari> Hmm. Wonder how many addresses has China allocated in last year (365 days)?
03:19:48 <pikhq_> Yes, geocities.co.jp exists *and* is reasonably well-used.
03:20:58 <elliott_> relief.c:202: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘}’ token
03:20:58 <elliott_> THAT'S SO HELPFUL
03:22:06 <pikhq_> Offering a whole *fifty megabytes* of hosting space.
03:22:21 <pikhq_> (1GB for ¥525 a month)
03:23:20 <Ilari> 64 850 688 (3.865 blocks).
03:24:54 <Ilari> On IPv6 front: 22 020 098 /48s.
03:28:35 <Ilari> All-time grand total for China: IPv4: 300 715 776 IPv6: 26 411 013
03:33:35 <elliott_> oerjan: i bet when i finish with this
03:33:38 <elliott_> oerjan: i'll tell ais and he'll be all
03:33:48 <elliott_> oh yeah i wrote a version of derlo that optimised church numerals a few months ago
03:33:52 <elliott_> it does underlambda too
03:33:58 <elliott_> and shares every fuckin' structure
03:34:31 <oerjan> THAT'S WHEN WE BAN HIM
03:34:43 <elliott_> agree
03:35:02 <oerjan> unless he promises never to mention anything he wrote unless he includes a working URL
03:36:01 <elliott_> :D
03:36:17 <elliott_> oerjan: i bet when he dies
03:36:19 <elliott_> it's gonna be all
03:36:26 <elliott_> "shit he has fifty terabyte disks here"
03:36:31 <elliott_> "Wtf are they filled with, porn?"
03:36:35 <elliott_> "no... code and language specs"
03:36:39 <pikhq_> :D
03:36:51 <oerjan> and a P=NP proof he'd forgotten all about
03:37:25 <oerjan> (yes ais523's demise will cause the DEATH of the internet)
03:41:19 <elliott_> hey oerjan
03:41:22 <elliott_> are you the reason gcc hates me?
03:41:23 <elliott_> :(
03:41:46 <oerjan> i don't know
03:41:52 <elliott_> oh gosh i fixed it
03:41:53 <elliott_> oerjan: i guess not
03:44:45 <elliott_> oerjan: well I _do_ know that ais has an underlambda implementation.
03:44:53 <elliott_> the sneaky bastard. :D
03:45:10 <elliott_> maybe he _does_ have a proof that p=np
03:45:13 <elliott_> and hasn't forgotten it
03:45:14 <elliott_> maybe he just hates us.
03:47:05 * oerjan thinks ais523 writes a _teeny_ bit verbosely
03:47:32 <elliott_> oerjan: why do you mention that? is it "SPILL THE BEANS ABOUT YOUR AIS523-RELATED FEELINGS" day? :P
03:47:46 <oerjan> because i'm reading the Checkout page
03:47:48 <elliott_> or do you mean his new lang
03:47:48 <elliott_> right
03:48:12 <elliott_> oerjan: the trick with ais' text
03:48:19 <elliott_> is for every 3 sentences
03:48:20 <elliott_> skip one
03:48:23 <oerjan> it's large enough that i almost tl;dr
03:48:26 <pikhq_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kraftparmesan.jpg Am I the only one somewhat disturbed by this shit?
03:48:27 <elliott_> or if they seem quite long, skip every other sentence
03:48:30 <elliott_> you will miss nothing
03:48:46 <elliott_> if the sentences are TRULY GIGANTIC, skip half of every sentence, and skip one whole sentence for every 3 sentences
03:49:09 <oerjan> elliott_: well i'm trying to proofread a little simultaneously
03:49:19 <elliott_> oerjan: i pity your soul
03:49:24 <pikhq_> Yes? Okay. Everyone else loves processed psuedofood.
03:49:27 <pikhq_> Explains a lot.
03:49:30 <elliott_> pikhq_: Clearly.
03:49:42 <elliott_> You and Ilari -> ##nutrition :P
03:49:50 <elliott_> Oh wow
03:49:51 <elliott_> It actually exists
03:49:52 <elliott_> Lucky you
03:50:02 <elliott_> "RULES: Stay on topic. No idling >60d."
03:50:03 <pikhq_> elliott_: I'm not even a nutrition nut, I just want my food to not taste like shit!
03:50:04 <elliott_> Is d days here?
03:50:08 <elliott_> You're not allowed to idle for more than 60 days?
03:50:18 <elliott_> :what the fuck is this shit:
03:50:25 <Ilari> Global RIR-allocated IPv6 space: 9 622 829 006
03:50:43 <elliott_> ok so Ilari is now ipv6bot :D
03:51:14 -!- TLUL has quit (Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*).
03:51:22 <pikhq_> No, it's pence. You're not allowed to idle for more than 60 pence.
03:51:24 <elliott_> Ilari: !rirdepletion
03:52:15 <Ilari> pikhq_: Well, food tasting good and being nutrious tend to go together (wonder why?).
03:52:20 <Ilari> :-)
03:52:37 <elliott_> that's only necessarily true if you live like a caveman
03:52:54 <pikhq_> Ilari: Well, yes, there is that *tendency*.
03:53:54 <pikhq_> At least in that processed shit-food tastes much worse than the real stuff, and the real stuff does tend to be better for you.
03:54:02 <Ilari> Of course, the normal processed stuff is pumped full of sugar.
03:54:12 <pikhq_> Or salt.
03:54:20 <Ilari> Well, salt is much less harmful.
03:54:39 <pikhq_> Course, absurd amounts of salt have been a feature of human diets as long as we've been able to do that on a regular basis.
03:55:24 <pikhq_> I mean, shit, freaking applying enough salt to cause bacteria to die from osmosis was once one of the major meat preservation methods.
03:57:48 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:58:00 <Ilari> The dangers of sugar are commonly understated and the dangers of salt are commonly overstated.
03:58:30 <elliott_> Ilari still hasn't responded with the current RIR depletion stats!
03:58:56 <pikhq_> Ilari: Yeah, but both sugar and salt are freaking all over the place in factory food.
03:59:32 <pikhq_> Significantly more-so than any sanity would allow for.
04:00:29 <pikhq_> On the other hand... WHY THE FUCK DOES FREAKING BREAD HAVE CORN SYRUP IN IT. GOD.
04:00:33 <Ilari> Oh, and don't forget seed oils (at least screwed up with too much heat).
04:01:34 <pikhq_> ... Man. It has corn syrup in it but it's blander than anything else. That's worrisome.
04:02:26 <pikhq_> How the hell do they even make bread flavorless, anyways?
04:02:27 <Ilari> If not screwed up more by hardening it.
04:02:50 <pikhq_> You can literally bake a mix of water and flour and it'll have more flavor.
04:03:16 <pikhq_> Course, you then have hardtack, but hey.
04:03:47 <elliott_> okay right it is time for me to become unconscious \o/
04:03:47 <myndzi> |
04:03:48 <myndzi> >\
04:03:49 -!- elliott_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
04:04:48 <Ilari> As to why it has corn syrup: It is so bad-tasting otherwise that it wouldn't sell? Or trying to make people consume more of it?
04:06:13 <pikhq_> Or maybe they just want it to rise faster.
04:06:16 <pikhq_> Yeast ♥ sugar.
04:07:29 <Ilari> Ah yeah.
04:07:45 <quintopia> except sucrose
04:08:30 <Ilari> BTW: The real corn syrup doesn't have fructose in it. It only gets fructose by enzymatic action.
04:08:39 <pikhq_> Well, high fructose corn syrup is, ah, high in fructose.
04:08:53 <pikhq_> Not to mention that the rest of it is glucose.
04:09:43 <Ilari> The amount of fructose by weight in HFCS varies something like 45-90%, usually being about 55-60%
04:09:46 <pikhq_> Ilari: The real corn syrup itself is a chemical product...
04:11:17 <pikhq_> Originally HCl, now a bunch of enzymes.
04:11:34 <Ilari> Well, it is mostly glucose and water. Plus a bunch of impurities.
04:15:36 <Ilari> HCl isn
04:16:33 <Ilari> HCl isn't very "fun" on the scale of chemicals used in producing "food". There's stuff like Hexane (from gasoline!) and Sodum Hydroxide (NaOH) used in producing seed oils.
04:17:36 <pikhq_> Lye isn't *too* weird in food production, y'know.
04:17:40 <pikhq_> I mean, there's...
04:17:42 <pikhq_> Lutefisk.
04:17:47 <pikhq_> Oh, fuck, never mind. :P
04:18:29 <Ilari> Actually, that isn't the only food that involves lye when cooking.
04:18:46 <pikhq_> I know, just the most notorious.
04:18:56 <Ilari> Apparently cooking with lye improves the mineral profile of at least some foods.
04:18:58 <pikhq_> What with it *actually being caustic* and all.
04:22:01 <oerjan> while "readonlyly" looks barely possible as an adverb, allowing it to stay would make it only about the 9th google hit so i assume it's a typo for "readonly".
04:23:51 <pikhq_> That's... Not adverby.
04:24:12 <pikhq_> I'm not entirely sure what would be an adverbial form of that, actually.
04:24:14 <oerjan> well it's a sort of adjective with -ly appended
04:24:35 <oerjan> it's just that the adjective already ends in -ly
04:24:40 <pikhq_> I could make it into an adverb in Japanese, but that's trivial.
04:25:10 <oerjan> RIDONURIRU DESU
04:25:21 <pikhq_> Close.
04:25:50 <oerjan> i guess the "DESU" might be wrong XD
04:25:52 <pikhq_> "Riidonri-teki ni" desu.
04:26:16 <oerjan> ack
04:26:41 <pikhq_> ("n" is the *only* mora in Japanese without a vowel)
04:26:52 <oerjan> i really knew that
04:28:44 <pikhq_> Also, I only just now had the connection that the term "adverb" applies to Japanese at all. XD
04:29:07 <pikhq_> "... Wait, that actually... Is an adverb. Hmm. Hooray, not-formally-learned grammar."
04:36:46 -!- TLUL has joined.
04:53:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:00:14 -!- watweewoo has joined.
05:00:35 -!- watweewoo has left (?).
05:00:47 -!- watweewoo has joined.
05:01:23 <watweewoo> x
05:03:22 -!- watweewoo has left (?).
05:14:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
05:14:47 -!- augur has joined.
05:17:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
05:17:57 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
05:18:52 <Ilari> Potaroo says that globally there are 443 137 736 free IPv4 addresses (337 665 542 193 free IPv6 in RIR pools, plus 34 837 083 717 632 in IANA pool).
05:21:16 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
05:25:32 <Ilari> Err. IPv4Depletion says 29 558 976 IPv4 addresses allocated in last 30 days. Compare this with earlier figure of 20 719 616 for APNIC last 30 days.
05:26:23 <Ilari> That would be APNIC allocating over 2/3 of the IP space.
05:31:59 -!- tvs_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
05:32:02 <pikhq_> Jeeze.
05:32:23 <coppro> uh, isn't IANA's pool empty?
05:32:45 <Ilari> IPv4 IANA pool is. IPv6 IANA pool is at 99%.
05:32:52 <coppro> oh, misread
05:33:34 <coppro> pikhq_: wait, in Japanese, n is actually a mora? I thought it was just a modifier to another mora
05:35:18 <pikhq_> coppro: No, it's a mora.
05:35:57 <oerjan> um i vaguely recall, aren't geminated consonants moras too
05:36:18 <pikhq_> Yes, gemination is also a mora.
05:36:24 <pikhq_> ... Fek.
05:36:49 <pikhq_> coppro: Also, slightly random, but: y'know the whole haiku syllable pattern thing?
05:36:53 <pikhq_> That's entirely wrong.
05:37:04 <pikhq_> Haiku has 5 morae/7 morae/5 morae.
05:37:17 <pikhq_> Not syllables. Japanese doesn't give a fuck about syllables.
05:37:28 <coppro> yep
05:38:27 <pikhq_> Probably because the pronunciation of Japanese is such that each mora is pronounced with roughly equal timing.
05:38:47 <coppro> right
05:41:00 <Ilari> This month (according to latest data, IPv4/IPv6): AfriNIC: 12 800 / 393 218 LACNIC: 210 688 / 1 703 936 RIPE: 3 183 888 / 33 161 254 ARIN: 5 235 456 / 21 694 831 APNIC: 11 642 880 / 3 670 029 Total: 20 285 712 / 60 623 268.
05:42:45 <pikhq_> Huh, APNIC is the only RIR to not allocate more IPv6 (/48s?) than IPv4 addresses.
05:43:15 <Ilari> Well, RIPE and ARIN both gave out a nice /24 (most likely to some NIR/LIR).
05:43:27 <pikhq_> *Aaaah*.
05:43:31 <pikhq_> What about AfriNIC?
05:44:03 <Ilari> Couple /32s (ISPs likely) plus /47(?)
05:44:22 <oerjan> well the north african countries are busy shutting down the internet, aren't they >:)
05:45:45 <pikhq_> Ilari: A /47 could be a single entity that's multihomed, I guess.
05:46:08 <pikhq_> (and so has an AS number, and so can actually get allocations personally)
05:46:13 <Ilari> LACNIC: 1x/28 (larger ISP?) plus 10x/32 (ISPs?)
05:48:58 <Ilari> The IPv4Depletion large alloc list: apnic, arin, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, apnic, ripencc, apnic, apnic, apnic, arin, ripencc, ripencc, ripencc
06:00:02 <Ilari> Allocation entry counts: AfriNIC: 8/7, LACNIC: 8/11, RIPE: 453/217, ARIN: 128/121, APNIC: 130/58, Total: 727/414.
06:35:54 -!- pikhq has joined.
06:36:11 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
06:57:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
07:16:57 -!- pingveno has quit (*.net *.split).
07:16:58 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split).
07:18:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
07:21:46 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
07:23:15 -!- pingveno has joined.
07:23:15 -!- mycroftiv has joined.
07:24:57 -!- TLUL has quit (Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*).
07:37:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:42:52 -!- boysetsfrog has joined.
07:51:05 -!- Sgeo has joined.
07:53:54 -!- Leonidas has quit (*.net *.split).
07:53:54 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split).
07:53:54 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split).
07:53:58 -!- pingveno has quit (*.net *.split).
07:53:59 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split).
07:55:22 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
07:55:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:58:05 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:02 -!- Leonidas has joined.
08:00:02 -!- fizzie has joined.
08:00:02 -!- yiyus has joined.
08:01:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
08:05:40 -!- pingveno has joined.
08:05:40 -!- mycroftiv has joined.
08:36:46 -!- Sgeo has joined.
08:40:16 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
09:06:12 <Ilari> Long-term growth rate of APNIC allocations seems to be about 19% per year.
09:10:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
09:13:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
09:44:50 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
09:46:41 -!- cheater- has joined.
10:05:44 -!- pikhq has joined.
10:06:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
11:43:35 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:46:12 -!- ais523 has joined.
11:47:10 -!- quintopia has joined.
11:47:10 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host).
11:47:10 -!- quintopia has joined.
11:58:21 -!- ais523_ has joined.
11:59:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services).
12:00:04 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
12:03:43 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
12:05:09 -!- quintopia has joined.
12:35:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:35:21 -!- pikhq has joined.
12:44:15 -!- nddrylliog has joined.
12:48:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:52:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:53:19 <oerjan> hi ais523
12:53:58 <ais523> hi
12:54:23 <oerjan> i think i have an idea for :()^!a TC-ness as well
12:56:30 <oerjan> basically use a instead of ~ in the turing machine construction for getting information into the left part of the tape
12:57:15 <ais523> hmm, is it usual for a language to have this many different minimizations?
12:57:31 <oerjan> i don't know :)
12:57:44 <oerjan> well given enough instructions, probably
12:57:49 <ais523> elliott already proved that () can be omitted so long as you have some other command for producing stack elements containing arbitrary commands
12:57:59 <oerjan> i remember
12:59:28 <oerjan> anyway we so far seem to have :()^~, :()^a*, and :()^!a as minimal known TC subsets (although none of them proven to be minimal)
13:01:00 <oerjan> also i believe :()^! is at the minimum a general deterministic pushdown automaton
13:01:35 <ais523> does being nondeterministic add to the power of PDAs?
13:01:39 <oerjan> yes
13:02:02 <ais523> what about one-counter Minsky machines?
13:02:19 <oerjan> nondeterministic gives context-free language recognition, deterministic only LR(1)
13:02:46 <oerjan> don't know about minsky machines
13:02:58 <ais523> LR(1)? seriously?
13:03:06 <ais523> I'd imagine it would be LR(n) for arbitrary finite n, at least
13:03:18 <ais523> because you can clearly just add extra states to read more than one character ahead
13:03:23 <oerjan> any language with an LR(n) grammar also has an LR(1) one
13:03:32 <ais523> hmm, I didn't know that
13:03:40 -!- boysetsfrog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
13:03:42 <ais523> and it seems a little surprising, although not obviously incorrect
13:05:15 <oerjan> i think i've heard the proof is somewhat tricky
13:05:37 <oerjan> "A deterministic context-free language is a language for which some LR(k) grammar exists. Every LR(k) grammar for k > 1 can be mechanically transformed into an LR(1) grammar for the same language, while an LR(0) grammar for the same language may not exist; the LR(0) languages are a proper subset of the deterministic ones.
13:12:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
13:13:32 <KingOfKarlsruhe> if someone want to compile Brainfuck to C++ ^^ http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0qjQJTEW it´s GuileScheme
13:13:54 <ais523> there are a bunch of brainfuck to (insert language here) compilers already
13:14:02 <ais523> is it naive, or does it try to optimise in some way?
13:14:42 <KingOfKarlsruhe> yes a little bit of optimsization
13:15:12 <KingOfKarlsruhe> optimization*
13:16:14 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ais523: if you disable "tape_protection" in the resultung code, then it is fast enough
13:17:51 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~9s
13:17:56 <oerjan> high-speed segfaults
13:18:57 <KingOfKarlsruhe> and without tape_protection : 2.237s
13:25:08 -!- augur has joined.
13:29:52 <oerjan> ...i suddenly wonder if i can do a one-counter extended minsky machine with :()^!
13:39:39 <oerjan> because i don't need either a or ~ in the TM construction if there is just one symbol
13:39:56 <ais523> what do you mean by "extended" here?
13:40:15 <oerjan> the one which can do mult by constant and divmod
13:40:20 <oerjan> and is TM
13:40:23 <oerjan> *TC
13:40:39 <ais523> ah, divmod-based minsky machines
13:40:53 <oerjan> they're listed in our wiki article
13:40:58 <ais523> that's a bit of an abstraction inversion in a way, isn't it, because aren't two-counter minsky machines shown TC by using them to emulate divmod-based?
13:41:08 <ais523> (and yes, I knew about divmod-based, just not that name for them)
13:41:34 <oerjan> i think so, i looked at the wikipedia Counter machine article the other day
13:41:50 <oerjan> um i only made up that name now
13:41:58 <oerjan> er or you did
13:42:03 <ais523> ah, no wonder I didn't know what it meant!
13:42:51 <oerjan> it would look like (U)(U)(T)^n(T):^!{s}^^{m}!^
13:42:51 <ais523> your fix on Checkout was entirely correct, btw; malloc/6 was originally a /5 for technical reasons, but I realised I could make it /6 without changing the semantics, and it's a lot clearer that way
13:43:07 <oerjan> good
13:43:19 <oerjan> er
13:43:29 <oerjan> *it would look like (U)(U)(T){n}(T):^!{s}^^{m}!^
13:43:51 <oerjan> ({n} being repetition count, since ^ is sort of taken)
13:45:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:45:30 -!- cheater00 has joined.
13:45:34 -!- cheater- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:47:11 <oerjan> hm is there a technical term for that kind of turing machine? just one symbol other than the end points, but symbols can be inserted and deleted
13:49:45 <oerjan> hm wait that's _also_ a two counter ordinary minsky machine isn't it
13:49:56 <ais523> yep, assuming you have a pointer
13:50:00 <ais523> it's one-counter if you don't have a tape pointer
13:50:07 <oerjan> but we do
13:50:22 <oerjan> the (T):^!{s}^ part
13:50:49 <oerjan> and the ends are equivalent to the zero checks
13:50:58 <ais523> yep, I was talking in general, rather than in this case in particular
13:52:01 -!- Vorpal_ has joined.
13:52:20 <ais523> o
13:52:46 -!- Vorpal has quit (Disconnected by services).
13:52:51 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal.
13:54:58 -!- FireFly has joined.
14:01:19 -!- azaq23 has joined.
14:06:17 <Gregor> `translate fnord
14:06:50 <HackEgo> fnord
14:10:47 -!- ais523_ has joined.
14:10:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services).
14:10:53 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
14:15:55 -!- augur has joined.
14:16:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:18:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:32:15 -!- nddrylliog has quit (Quit: Leaving).
14:40:57 <oerjan> ^ul (((()(!:^!^))(!((0)S!:^^!^)(!:^!^))(!!((1)S!:^^!^)(!::^!!^))(!!!(!:^^^)))(:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**!^
14:41:07 <oerjan> gah
14:41:10 <oerjan> oh hm
14:41:29 <oerjan> ^ul (((()(!:^!^))(!((0)S!:^^!^)(!:^!^))(!!((1)S!:^^!^)(!::^!!^))(!!!(!:^^^)))(:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
14:41:30 <fungot> 1
14:42:05 <oerjan> argh
14:44:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:44:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:45:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:48:30 <oerjan> ^ul (((((S|)S)((S*)S!:^!^))(!((R0|)S!:^^!^)((R0*)S!:^!^))(!!((R1|)S!:^^!^)((R1*)S!::^!!^))(!!!((L*)S!:^^^)))((|L)S:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
14:48:30 <fungot> |LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1|
14:51:35 <oerjan> ^ul (((()(!:^!^))(!((0)S!:^^^!^)(!:^!^))(!!((1)S!:^^^!^)(!::^!!^))(!!!(!:^^^)))(:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
14:51:36 <fungot> 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ...too much output!
14:51:39 <oerjan> ff
14:52:08 <oerjan> ^ul (((((S|)S)((S*)S!:^!^))(!((R0|)S!:^^^!^)((R0*)S!:^!^))(!!((R1|)S!:^^^!^)((R1*)S!::^!!^))(!!!((L*)S!:^^^)))((|L)S:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
14:52:08 <fungot> |LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1|L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*|LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS*R1||LS ...too much output!
14:54:19 <Gregor> `translate plurty
14:54:20 <HackEgo> plurty
14:54:32 <Gregor> `translate schill
14:54:34 <HackEgo> Schill
14:54:41 <Gregor> Bahaha, it capitalized it :P
15:01:44 <oerjan> ^ul (((()(!:^!^))(!((0)S!:^^^!^)(!:^!^))(!!((1)S!:^^^!^)(!::^!!^))(!!!(!:^^^^)))(:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
15:01:45 <fungot> 100110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ...too much output!
15:02:52 <oerjan> ^ul (((((S|)S)((S*)S!:^!^))(!((R0|)S!:^^^!^)((R0*)S!:^!^))(!!((R1|)S!:^^^!^)((R1*)S!::^!!^))(!!!((L*)S!:^^^^)))((|L)S:^!!!^)):^^(^)(::**)::**^^!^
15:02:52 <fungot> |LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1|L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*L*|LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0|L*L*L*L*L*L*L*|LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1*R0|L*L*L*L*|LS*R1*R0*R1*R0*R1|L*L*|LS*R1*R0*R1|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1*R0|L*|LS*R1* ...too much output!
15:07:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
15:07:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
15:09:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
15:10:59 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:11:39 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
15:13:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:15:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
15:16:24 -!- ais523_ has joined.
15:17:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
15:17:36 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
15:22:54 -!- asiekierka has joined.
15:25:48 -!- azaq23 has joined.
15:26:41 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
15:28:17 -!- cheater00 has joined.
15:31:39 -!- copumpkin has joined.
15:34:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:35:07 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:38:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:54:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
16:11:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
16:11:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host).
16:11:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
16:11:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:12:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
16:14:14 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
16:14:40 -!- sftp has joined.
16:14:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:16:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
16:19:45 -!- copumpkin has joined.
16:26:54 -!- pumpkin has joined.
16:29:28 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:30:09 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
16:30:28 <hagb4rd> hey ya
16:30:43 -!- ferix2x has joined.
16:47:37 -!- asiekierka has joined.
16:51:03 <Ilari> APNIC down <0.01. 16k+2x4k+2k to Japan, 4k to India, 256 to Indonesia, 2x256 to Vietnam. IPv6: /32 to Cambodia, /32 to Nepal.
16:51:51 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:52:17 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
16:53:43 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
17:18:30 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
17:18:46 -!- augur has joined.
17:24:47 -!- bleaa has joined.
17:25:05 <bleaa> hi all
17:27:51 -!- bleaa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:31:12 -!- cheater- has joined.
17:31:23 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
17:36:17 <Ilari> Tsk, tsk. .se doesn't look like IPv6-ready. :-)
17:40:56 <Gregor> What, the whole country?
17:41:03 <Gregor> Or the TLD DNS?
17:41:39 -!- asiekierka has joined.
17:42:25 <Ilari> Authoritative DNS for .se.
17:45:03 <Gregor> Mmmm
17:45:07 <Gregor> That's bad.
17:46:36 <Gregor> But then, who cares about .se <trollface/>
17:47:19 <Ilari> Oops, they do have IPv6 nameservers.
17:47:45 <Ilari> At least 3.
18:01:38 <Ilari> TLDs that really seem IPv6-incapable: ag, ai, asia, aw, ax, ba, bb, bd, bf, bh, bj, bn, bo, bs, bv, bz, cc, ck, cm, co, coop, cr, cx, dj, dm, er, fk, fo, gd, gf, gi, gm, gov, gp, gu, hm, hn, info, iq, ir, jobs, kp, ky, lc, mg, mh, mil, mm, mn, mobi, mp, mq, mu, mv, name, nc, ne, ni, nu,
18:04:29 <Ilari> pf, pg, pk, pr, pro, pw, qa, sc, sd, sj, sl, sm, sr, st, sv, sy, tc, td, tg, tk, tl, to, tr, tt, tv, uz, vc, vg, vi, vu, ws, ye, zw, xn--ogbpf8fl, xn--wgbh1c, xn--wgbl6a and xn--ygbi2ammx
18:06:31 <Gregor> Yowza
18:06:32 <Ilari> How I did get that list: I AXFR'd root zone, collected all AAAA records there, then filtered all TLDs having NS pointing to one of those AAAA records and then diffed that with full list of all TLDs there.
18:06:39 <Gregor> Glad at least us isn't on there :P
18:07:12 <Ilari> And .asia and .mobi is there?
18:08:42 <Ilari> Urgh. Looks like that list is generated quite wrong.
18:12:38 <Ilari> Hopefully generating it correctly: ai, aw, ax, ba, bb, bd, bf, bh, bj, bn, bo, bs, bv, cc, ck, cm, co, coop, cr, cx, dj, dm, er, fk, fo, gd, gf, gm, gov, gp, gu, hm, iq, ir, jobs, kp, ky, mg, mh, mil, mm, mp, mq, mu, mv, name, nc, ne, ni, nu, pf, pg, pk, pr, pro, pw, qa, sd, sj, sl, sm, sr, st,
18:13:00 <Ilari> sv, sy, tc, td, tg, tk, tl, to, tr, tt, tv, uz, vg, vi, vu, ws, ye, zw, xn--ogbpf8fl, xn--wgbh1c, xn--wgbl6a and xn--ygbi2ammx.
18:13:36 <Gregor> .name???
18:13:46 <Gregor> Isn't that administered by one of the groups that administers .com, .net or .org?
18:15:53 <Gregor> Yeah, it's run by VeriSign.
18:16:14 <Gregor> How is it that they can figure out .com and .net, but not .name, .cc or .tv :P
18:16:59 <Ilari> Nope, same gorup that administers, tv, cc and jobs. And they have NSes running IPv6. Except those aren't used for the TLDs they admin.
18:18:54 <Ilari> And with luck, there's couple TLDs there that do have IPv6 capability but no AAAA glue records in the root zone.
18:24:50 <Ilari> And yes, .mil and .gov really appear to be IPv6-incapable.
18:28:32 <pikhq> That should change soon...
18:28:48 <pikhq> DoD directive requiring all military systems to be on IPv6 by January 2012.
18:31:34 <Ilari> Heh. There are legends about DOD having IPv6 /13, but there doesn't seem to be public allocation records for that. So perhaps it is "bogon" space.
18:33:04 <Ilari> The biggest block I can find allocation records for is a /16, apparently to some NIR in Brazil.
18:40:27 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
18:40:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18:41:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:09:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
19:10:29 -!- copumpkin has joined.
19:15:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:16:39 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:26:09 -!- augur has joined.
19:40:01 -!- TLUL has joined.
20:04:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
20:12:59 -!- asiekierka[ds] has joined.
20:13:06 <asiekierka[ds]> hhhi
20:13:47 <Gregor> Are you .... IRC'ing from a Nintendo DS?
20:14:57 <Ilari> 306 TLDs total, 222 of those are IPv6 capable. So that leaves 84 TLDs that are IPv4-only.
20:15:06 -!- asiekierka[ds] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:17:18 <Ilari> What could be fun list: All ASNs announcing IPv4 space but no IPv6 space.
20:18:07 <Ilari> Oh, and complete with AS names.
20:19:24 <Ilari> To the public internet that is.
20:22:47 <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, no, from deep space.
20:23:14 <Gregor> Ahhhh
20:23:15 <Gregor> Better
20:23:24 <Gregor> Explains the lag time for him to respond, too.
20:23:35 <fizzie> Explains the read error.
20:24:04 <fizzie> Though the DS IRC clients I've used have been rather horrible, so that's not a completely ruled-out possibility either.
20:27:46 <Gregor> lol
20:28:34 <fizzie> There's one in DSorganize, and it's bad. Almost as bad as the "web browser".
20:28:41 <fizzie> Have to put that in quotes.
20:29:28 <Gregor> Well, what do you expect from a suite named "disorganize"
20:31:11 <fizzie> If I recall correctly, ClIRC -- http://www.ds-xtra.com/ClIRC -- wasn't really anything to write home about either.
20:32:00 <fizzie> Haven't tried either in a long while, though, since the DS doesn't do WPA. (I used to have a separate 802.11b USB stick I ran in access point mode + NAT for trying DS networking stuff out.)
20:37:12 <Phantom__Hoover> fungot,
20:37:13 <fungot> Phantom__Hoover: i'm wondering how to modify a number? cause a string can be applied to arguments ( which, if i just don't know
20:40:19 <Phantom__Hoover> ferix2x, I haven't seen you here before.
20:40:19 <Phantom__Hoover> Welcome!
20:47:00 <Gregor> I don't see him here now :P
20:49:06 <Phantom__Hoover> WELL I DON'T CARE
20:50:55 -!- elliott has joined.
20:52:28 <elliott> 20:22:01 <oerjan> while "readonlyly" looks barely possible as an adverb, allowing it to stay would make it only about the 9th google hit so i assume it's a typo for "readonly".
20:52:32 <elliott> no, ais types like that
20:59:44 <olsner> shouldn't that be readonlily?
21:00:08 <olsner> feels like the y should become i when you bend the word like that
21:00:15 <elliott> indeed
21:08:21 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split).
21:14:38 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:18:07 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split).
21:18:12 -!- clog has joined.
21:18:12 -!- clog_ has joined.
21:20:34 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:34 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:34 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:34 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:34 -!- miekko has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:34 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- azaq23 has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:36 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:36 -!- Ilari has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:36 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:53 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:53 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:53 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:54 -!- comex_ has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:55 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:56 -!- sftp has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:56 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:57 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:57 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split).
21:20:57 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split).
21:21:26 <Phantom__Hoover> So have I been netsplit, or have they?
21:21:42 <quintopia> you're on my side PH
21:21:44 <quintopia> the cool side
21:21:57 <olsner> meh, why did I have to end up with you guys?
21:22:02 <Phantom__Hoover> Yeah.
21:22:03 <quintopia> that was a p huge split
21:22:11 <Phantom__Hoover> olsner, because we're the better ones.
21:22:20 <quintopia> well
21:22:21 <olsner> Right.
21:22:22 <Phantom__Hoover> Look at the names!
21:22:24 <quintopia> except for olsner
21:22:54 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie! augur! Gregor! lifthrasiir! mycroftiv! pikhq_!
21:23:01 <Phantom__Hoover> Aww, Sgeo_ is here as well.
21:23:14 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, quick, kick him before he cramps our style.
21:23:19 <augur> ..
21:23:19 <Phantom__Hoover> Get rid of cheater- as well.
21:23:21 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
21:23:21 -!- elliott has joined.
21:23:21 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:23:21 -!- azaq23 has joined.
21:23:21 -!- Vorpal has joined.
21:23:21 -!- yorick has joined.
21:23:21 -!- dbc has joined.
21:23:21 -!- tswett has joined.
21:23:21 -!- fungot has joined.
21:23:21 -!- miekko has joined.
21:23:21 -!- ineiros has joined.
21:23:21 -!- EgoBot has joined.
21:23:21 -!- Zuu has joined.
21:23:21 -!- Ilari has joined.
21:23:21 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined.
21:24:57 <fizzie> Too late!
21:25:22 <quintopia> welcome back
21:29:01 <elliott> "Too late"?
21:29:55 <Phantom__Hoover> To kick Sgeo_ and cheater- before they ruined the party on the awesome side of the netsplit.
21:40:52 -!- comex_ has joined.
21:40:52 -!- lambdabot has joined.
21:40:52 -!- Deewiant has joined.
21:40:52 -!- rodgort has joined.
21:40:52 -!- aloril has joined.
21:40:52 -!- variable has joined.
21:40:52 -!- SimonRC has joined.
21:40:52 -!- mtve has joined.
21:40:52 -!- coppro has joined.
21:41:31 <cheater-> Phantom__Hoover: stop trolling
21:42:48 -!- nddrylliog has joined.
21:44:37 <cheater-> Ilari: .cx is ipv6 incapable??
21:44:47 <cheater-> Ilari: can this really mean the true, real end of goatse.cx???
21:45:00 <cheater-> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:45:20 <olsner> eeh, that page exists on something like thousands of other addresses
21:45:52 <olsner> and there's room for about 2^100 more in ipv6
21:46:27 <cheater-> yes, but the domain has a sentimental value :(
21:46:39 <olsner> no it doesn't :)
21:46:57 <cheater-> it'll feel like something important is gone
21:47:29 <cheater-> imagine that suddenly st. paul's cathedral in london is gone
21:47:31 <cheater-> forever
21:47:37 <olsner> I wouldn't care about that
21:47:44 <cheater-> what would you care about
21:47:58 <cheater-> imagine one of your fingers is gone forever
21:48:08 <cheater-> that's what it would feel like
21:48:09 <olsner> that would be sad
21:48:14 <Ilari> Right, .cx doesn't seem to support IPv6.
21:48:20 <cheater-> yes, that's exactly how sad it would be
21:48:23 <olsner> especially if one of my fingers was a cathedral in london
21:48:29 <cheater-> Ilari: can .cx fix this problem?
21:48:36 <cheater-> Ilari: or is this something unfixable?
21:48:55 <Ilari> Yes, they can. The DNS is handled by dyntld.net
21:49:02 <olsner> but I imagine a domain name would be of little use as a finger, so I would probably be fine about losing it
21:49:15 -!- Wamanuz5 has changed nick to 5EXAB9FNH.
21:49:16 <elliott> What page?
21:49:19 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined.
21:49:22 <elliott> Goatse?
21:49:55 <cheater-> Ilari: *PHEW*
21:50:50 <Ilari> Basically, dual-stack some/all of authoritative nameservers of the TLD and then send the AAAA glue records to root.
21:52:29 <Ilari> 222 TLDs have AAAA glue records in the root zone.
21:53:37 <Ilari> (there are 306 total).
21:56:40 -!- dbc has changed nick to 50UAAAYNV.
21:56:44 -!- dbc has joined.
21:56:44 -!- elliott_ has joined.
21:58:10 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:10 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:11 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:11 -!- 50UAAAYNV has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:11 -!- miekko has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:11 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:11 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:41 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:41 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:41 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split).
21:58:50 -!- Vorpal has joined.
22:00:35 -!- 5EXAB9FNH has quit (*.net *.split).
22:04:10 -!- coppro has joined.
22:04:50 -!- SimonRC has joined.
22:04:54 -!- miekko has joined.
22:06:51 -!- tswett has joined.
22:07:17 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host).
22:07:17 -!- Vorpal has joined.
22:07:22 -!- Behold has quit (Changing host).
22:07:22 -!- Behold has joined.
22:07:58 -!- miekko has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:09:09 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:10:20 * Phantom__Hoover → sleep
22:10:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:10:47 -!- SimonRC has joined.
22:15:09 -!- miekko has joined.
22:20:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:20:13 -!- yorick has joined.
22:20:13 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:33:36 <elliott_> ^ul (:!:!:*)(:)~^S
22:33:43 <elliott_> fizzie: FUNGOT
22:38:56 -!- fungot has joined.
22:39:00 <fizzie> A split casualty, I guess.
22:39:23 <fizzie> (gone now)
22:48:15 -!- iconmaster has joined.
22:49:20 <elliott_> ^ul (:!:!:*)(:)~^S
22:49:20 <fungot> ::
22:53:55 <iconmaster> IconJoust is FINALLY done virusscaning, and is linked at the BF Joust page!
22:54:08 <iconmaster> Yay me.
22:54:16 <elliott_> I made your table less ugly
22:54:44 <iconmaster> Yes, thanks. Im not good at tables.
22:55:35 <iconmaster> Im not good at much (other than Lua, really). Yay high self esteem!
22:58:53 * iconmaster acrually thinks better of himself than he shows. no, really!
22:59:18 <elliott_> I WONDER WHY, HA HA
22:59:42 <iconmaster> HA HA HA... Wait...
23:00:29 <iconmaster> Ya, im going to try to work a ()* system for IconJoust this weekend.
23:00:47 <iconmaster> It needs it.
23:00:47 <elliott_> ()* is eas, ()% is not
23:00:50 <elliott_> *easy
23:02:07 <iconmaster> Well, doesnt (a{b}c)%x equal to (a)*xb(c)*x?
23:03:06 <iconmaster> Or am is my knowlodge of % correct?
23:03:25 <elliott_> iconmaster: (x[y{z}a]b)%n is valid.
23:03:30 <elliott_> (But (x[y)*n is not.)
23:03:36 <elliott_> The point is that ({})% allows you to do nesting.
23:03:47 <iconmaster> Oh.
23:04:17 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:04:26 <iconmaster> Why can't you do ([)? it would be easy in IconJoust.
23:04:42 <iconmaster> As long as you march correctly
23:04:44 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
23:04:51 -!- Slereah has joined.
23:05:03 <iconmaster> *match
23:06:43 <elliott_> iconmaster: You're just going to expand them in memory.
23:06:46 <elliott_> This is hideously slow.
23:07:02 <elliott_> Especially since ()% allows the expansion of a program to be exponentially bigger than its source.
23:07:56 <iconmaster> But () would lagdeath to display the program! It needs to iterate.
23:08:23 <iconmaster> Hmmm... Ill sort this out. Brb for now.
23:08:27 -!- iconmaster has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi).
23:09:16 <elliott_> hmm, what do you need apart from NAND to do arithmetic?
23:09:28 <elliott_> bitwise nand
23:09:28 <elliott_> that is
23:09:40 <elliott_> well, nand gives you xor...
23:16:19 <elliott_> ;; mov r3 <- r4
23:16:19 <elliott_> log r9 <- r4, r4
23:16:19 <elliott_> log r4 <- r3, r3
23:16:19 <elliott_> log r4 <- r4, r4
23:16:19 <elliott_> log r3 <- r9, r9
23:16:24 <elliott_> gotta love any machine where mov isn't a primitive
23:25:40 -!- azaq231 has joined.
23:27:37 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:30:43 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:32:45 <oerjan> 12:52:28 <elliott> 20:22:01 <oerjan> while "readonlyly" looks barely possible as an adverb, allowing it to stay would make it only about the 9th google hit so i assume it's a typo for "readonly".
23:32:49 <oerjan> 12:52:32 <elliott> no, ais types like that
23:32:51 <oerjan> 12:59:44 <olsner> shouldn't that be readonlily?
23:32:54 <oerjan> 13:00:08 <olsner> feels like the y should become i when you bend the word like that
23:33:03 <oerjan> i thought about that, but it didn't really help with the google hits :D
23:33:16 <elliott_> oerjan: i'm an authority, i have successfully mimicked ais523's writing style completely undetected before, a rare feat!
23:33:26 <oerjan> bravo!
23:33:44 <elliott_> oerjan: i can assure you that if "readonlyly" makes sense there it was totally intentional :P
23:33:59 <elliott_> I wish English made such things more elegant
23:34:14 <elliott_> like, a nice to-adverb suffix. and it should be agglutinative.
23:34:35 <elliott_> actually "read-only" is a good word because it's essentially agglutinative anyway
23:34:40 <oerjan> well it's mainly inelegant there because you have an adjective made with a -ly adverb inside
23:34:41 <elliott_> readonly
23:34:43 <elliott_> erm
23:34:49 <elliott_> *drop that line
23:34:56 <elliott_> oerjan: is only derived from an adverb?
23:35:22 <oerjan> um it _is_ an adverb, presumably derived from "one"?
23:35:34 <elliott_> I would call only an adjective?
23:35:45 <elliott_> wordnet agrees
23:35:55 <oerjan> ok it can be used for both i think
23:36:04 <elliott_> I'm not sure the "one" etymology is clear either
23:36:46 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:36:48 <elliott_> oerjan: anyway vocabulary should be formed for maximal elegance upon arbitrary composition
23:36:53 <oerjan> hm ok it was the obvious one though
23:37:02 <elliott_> oh it may be true, it's just not obvious to me as a dumb native
23:37:45 <oerjan> well only means "just the one", sort of
23:37:54 <elliott_> well yes
23:37:57 <oerjan> *-the, maybe
23:38:00 <elliott_> oerjan: really though. agglutinativitivity is totally awesome
23:38:31 <oerjan> the norwegian equivalent is "eneste", which would directly translate as "onest"
23:38:38 <oerjan> *"one-est"
23:38:42 <elliott_> hey pikhq
23:38:59 <elliott_> if i want a language that's so fucking agglutinative that the speakers don't even know how to not agglut things
23:39:03 <elliott_> what's a good choice
23:39:12 <elliott_> how agglutinative is moonspeak?
23:39:18 <oerjan> finnish i would think
23:39:31 <oerjan> greenlandic, even more
23:39:40 <miekko> greenlandic is pretty bad
23:39:46 <miekko> but I think there's some native american langs that
23:39:50 <miekko> way outdo it
23:39:54 <miekko> and some australian ones
23:39:59 <elliott_> finnish is pretty agglutinative i think yes
23:40:03 <miekko> iirc kayardild permits stacking casess
23:40:06 <elliott_> but wp says jap is too
23:40:12 <miekko> japanese only agglutinates in the verbs
23:40:13 <oerjan> yeah i hear native american languages in general tend to be much more agglutinative
23:40:19 <elliott_> Agglutinative languages tend to have a high rate of affixes/morphemes per word, and to be very regular[citation needed]. For example, Japanese has only two irregular verbs (and not very irregular), Luganda has only one (or two, depending on how 'irregular' is defined), Turkish has only one and in the Quechua languages all the verbs are regular. Georgian is an exception; not only is it highly agglutinative (there can be simultaneously up to 8 morphemes
23:40:19 <elliott_> per word), but there is also a significant number of irregular verbs, varying in degrees of irregularity.
23:40:19 <elliott_> no mention of finnish, probably because of SYSTEMATIC RACISM
23:40:36 <elliott_> actually i'm not sure how you go about inventing a language that isn't agglutinative, except maybe by being retarded
23:40:45 <miekko> in kayardild, if you have a subclause, every word in that subclause will be marked by the case of the noun it modifies
23:40:48 <miekko> so like
23:40:48 <elliott_> if it didn't sound so darn awkward half of my words would have like three hyphens in them
23:40:59 <elliott_> miekko: hey do we have two linguists in here now? :D
23:41:06 <miekko> I'm not really a linguist
23:41:10 <miekko> but I've read tons of typology
23:41:13 <elliott_> more than that n00b augur haha
23:41:13 <miekko> and it's my minor subject
23:41:18 <elliott_> he's all
23:41:20 <elliott_> OOH SYNTAX
23:41:22 <miekko> I know augur from elsewhere
23:41:24 <elliott_> and we're like lol ur dum
23:41:24 <miekko> syntax is fun.
23:41:31 <elliott_> sorry, you are getting in the way of me mocking augur
23:41:32 <elliott_> please cease
23:41:34 <miekko> but uh, cs syntax is
23:41:39 <miekko> funnier than linguistics syntax
23:41:46 <elliott_> <augur> hurf durf!! languages! syntax!
23:41:57 <elliott_> no no wait
23:42:03 <elliott_> i know how to strike pain into the centre of his heart
23:42:09 <elliott_> so that he will never recover from the absolute slander
23:42:11 <elliott_> <augur> BRB FELLATING CHOMSKY
23:42:12 <elliott_> OH
23:42:15 <miekko> ouch
23:42:21 <miekko> that's gotta sting
23:42:23 <elliott_> okay, someone who isn't me talk, i'm well on my way to making a fool of myself
23:42:53 <elliott_> or have possibly reached making a fool of myself and drove past mindlessly
23:42:58 <oerjan> <elliott_> actually i'm not sure how you go about inventing a language that isn't agglutinative, except maybe by being retarded <-- i think you emulate history by piling on so many sound changes you cannot see the boundary between the suffixes any more
23:43:16 <elliott_> oerjan: that _isn't_ agglutinative
23:43:19 <elliott_> or is that what you meant
23:43:37 <oerjan> of course
23:43:40 <miekko> elliott_: i'm also, like augur, into you know, trying to construct natural-like languages (as works of art, not as anything else)
23:43:54 <miekko> and uh, isolating languages aren't that difficult to construct
23:43:56 <elliott_> miekko: haha faggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!
23:43:57 <elliott_> hi
23:44:00 <miekko> just sound change things to zero all the way
23:44:03 <oerjan> or sound changes that turn the suffixes into nothing
23:44:14 <elliott_> <miekko> SAPIR WHORF
23:44:15 <miekko> then do like chinese
23:44:17 <elliott_> man i'm slanderin' a lot today
23:44:26 <miekko> whenever you get homophones
23:44:39 <miekko> you add a synonym or something before or after it
23:44:49 <miekko> or some other word that feels reasonably related
23:44:58 <oerjan> and of course starting using auxiliary verbs and prepositions and the like instead of suffixes
23:45:01 <miekko> so, say owl, teacher and chair suddenly all are "pin"
23:45:13 <elliott_> :D
23:45:16 <elliott_> what about pin
23:45:17 <elliott_> what's pi
23:45:19 <elliott_> *pin
23:45:21 <elliott_> "chair"?
23:45:29 <miekko> then you take the word "bird" (which of course is now a synonyme with ran or whatever) and stick by owl
23:45:33 <miekko> so pin ran is bird
23:45:49 <miekko> by chair, you put the word butt - which of course is synonymous with another bunch of words
23:45:49 <elliott_> hmm, if i learned an agglutinative language i might end up just not bothering to use multiple words in a sentence
23:45:52 <miekko> and by teacher, you stick beard.
23:45:53 <elliott_> that might be... bad
23:45:53 <oerjan> (i recall reading indoeuropean prepositions derived from adverbs originally)
23:45:54 <miekko> etc
23:46:12 <miekko> oerjan: I think the occasional ones derive from nouns and verbs
23:46:23 <miekko> well not proto-indoeuropean ones
23:46:25 <miekko> but later ones
23:46:45 <miekko> in Finnish, many prepositions and postpositions still are visibly derived from nouns
23:47:40 <elliott_> hmm, I wonder whether forth is SOV or OSV
23:47:45 <elliott_> I think it might be the latter
23:48:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:48:13 <oerjan> <elliott_> hmm, if i learned an agglutinative language i might end up just not bothering to use multiple words in a sentence <-- that would require more than just ordinary agglutinativity, you need polysynthetic
23:48:21 -!- Mannerisky has joined.
23:48:31 <elliott_> oerjan: you wanna bet?
23:48:42 -!- augur has joined.
23:48:54 <elliott_> i'd go for polysynthetic but it doesn't look like there are any languages that anyone speaks that are polysynthetic ;D
23:48:57 <miekko> elliott_: doesn't make much sense to consider computer langs as SOV or SVO or anything
23:49:02 <elliott_> miekko: does for forth
23:49:09 <oerjan> elliott_: in finnish and hungarian say, you still usually need separate words for subject, verb and object say
23:49:23 <elliott_> miekko: the typical forth style constructs short "sentences" out of words which are unarguably verbs
23:49:39 -!- nddrylliog has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:49:41 <miekko> oerjan: generally, you can omit the subject if it's first or second person
23:49:50 <elliott_> e.g.
23:49:51 <miekko> elliott_: yeah but I guess there's no "cognitive" idea of subject and object?
23:49:54 <elliott_> 64 chars allot
23:49:54 <elliott_> ==
23:49:59 <elliott_> "allocate 64 chars"
23:50:04 <oerjan> yes, and in hungarian sometimes the object
23:50:10 <elliott_> miekko: well i'm not sure. I'm looking up what ! is now ("write to memory address")
23:50:13 <oerjan> but that's pronouns
23:50:14 <miekko> oerjan: yeah, that thing is pretty cool, really.
23:50:25 <elliott_> "value address !" would be OSV
23:50:26 <miekko> oerjan: they're still ... arguments of some kind
23:50:29 <elliott_> "address value !" would be SOV
23:50:30 <elliott_> I think
23:51:17 <miekko> hm
23:51:25 <elliott_> hmm
23:51:27 <miekko> well
23:51:28 <elliott_> it's "value addr !"
23:51:35 <miekko> in a sense
23:51:43 <elliott_> value address gets, oranges sam eats
23:51:44 <miekko> it's an imperative, not a subj obj verb thing
23:51:52 <miekko> so there's an implicit subject - the computer.
23:52:05 <elliott_> miekko: well, yes. but consider plain arithmetic
23:52:09 <elliott_> obviously there's no subject vs. object there
23:52:13 <elliott_> but it's definitely not an imperative
23:52:17 <miekko> not?
23:52:18 <elliott_> and forth still uses RPN there
23:52:24 <elliott_> 2 3 +
23:52:26 <elliott_> add two and three.
23:52:31 <miekko> yes
23:52:32 <elliott_> ok so that's an imperative the way it's phrased there
23:52:37 <elliott_> but that's not how forth code is reasoned about
23:52:49 <elliott_> ( m n -- m+n ) is how i'd "describe" it
23:52:52 <elliott_> in stack notation
23:53:04 <miekko> one can always reason about things in ways that suggests any number of things
23:53:09 <elliott_> and consider e.g. Joy, which ignoring IO is a purely functional language
23:53:09 <miekko> things that may not at all be analogous
23:53:10 <elliott_> miekko: oh certainly
23:53:14 <oerjan> <miekko> oerjan: I think the occasional ones derive from nouns and verbs <-- yeah i think norwegian "hos" (at ...'s house) and "til" (to) derive from words meaning house and goal, respectively
23:53:18 <elliott_> but forth code has a strong resemblance to sentences to me
23:53:53 <miekko> oerjan: does your dialect use til as an infinitive marker?
23:54:01 <elliott_> hm is ithkuil polysynthetic?
23:54:04 <miekko> (analogously to how English does)
23:54:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
23:54:19 <miekko> ithkuil is terrible, but I think polysynthetic is a badly defined thing anyway
23:54:53 <elliott_> miekko: you misspelled "awesome"
23:55:08 <oerjan> <miekko> elliott_: doesn't make much sense to consider computer langs as SOV or SVO or anything <-- well most imperative languages seem to be V first, at least
23:55:20 <oerjan> oh wait object orientation is SVO
23:55:27 <elliott_> YOU MISSPELLED AWESOME MIEKKO
23:55:44 <elliott_> oerjan: indeed.
23:55:50 <elliott_> J is of course SVO. or OVS, who can tell.
23:55:59 <elliott_> SVO, i'd say
23:56:05 <elliott_> I think array indexing is array first, index second
23:57:18 <miekko> elliott_: no, if I misspell awesome, it'll be avesome. it's a problem ve scandinawians sometimes hwe
23:57:29 <oerjan> <miekko> oerjan: does your dialect use til as an infinitive marker? <-- no we use "å" like most norwegians, cannot say i recall "til" used that way
23:57:45 <miekko> it's present in some dialects of Swedish - mine does it
23:58:11 <miekko> mine sounds a lot like northern norwegian if norwegian lost pitch accent
23:58:19 <oerjan> heh
23:58:31 <oerjan> well my dialect is northern norwegian
23:58:39 <miekko> ok, well, I figured it was worth a shot.
23:58:42 <elliott_> miekko: you still haven't apologised for your clearly incorrect remark, then!
23:58:50 <miekko> elliott_: no, ithkuil is terrible.
23:58:57 <elliott_> why must you lie?
23:58:59 <miekko> it's what we call a kitchen-sink conlang
23:59:16 <elliott_> miekko: heh, as snobbish as we esolangers
23:59:17 <miekko> and it's an almost entirely unartistic cartesian product of elements
23:59:20 <elliott_> Bah, brainfuck is lame!
23:59:26 <elliott_> LOLCode is a SIN UNTO THE GODS.
23:59:57 <miekko> natural languages tend not to be cartesian products of their elements
←2011-02-22 2011-02-23 2011-02-24→ ↑2011 ↑all