Which game would you like to play?" [button with html tag in it] < 1298147698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes indeed < 1298147749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait for my anise soda syrup to cool down, I'm impatient D-8 < 1298147750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how did that screwiness happen < 1298147760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why is it hot? < 1298147769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also try cooling it < 1298147776 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only make supersaturated sucrose syrup in hot water. < 1298147792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the refrigerator, but it was boiling and it's dense so it'll still take a while :P < 1298147828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if you let it pass through a tube with that nifty "outer-tube-where-cold-water-flows-in-the-opposite-direction"-thingy then it should cool quite quickly < 1298147839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sucrose syrup, it doesn't "flow" :P < 1298147843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1298147848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is it qctually soda then < 1298147850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually* < 1298147866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, soda shouldn't be syrupy. It should flow < 1298147872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's in the refrigerator, but it was boiling and it's dense so it'll still take a while :P ← HEAT CAPACITY FAIL < 1298147881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is soda SYRUP < 1298147892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do other hyposmic people taste drinks like you do? i have this feeling these experiments ought to be of benefit to _someone_ else... < 1298147896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay what about liquid nitrogen then? < 1298147904 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've gotten mixed results :P < 1298147915 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've got a huge supply of that lawlehcoptah < 1298147935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what about normal freeze spray? < 1298147952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, they can cool things to like -20 in a handful of seconds < 1298147966 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want frozen syrup :P < 1298147980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, don't apply it for so long then duh! < 1298147994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: zomg u r so helpful < 1298147994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, besides "couple of seconds" was a for a 8-pin DIP < 1298148004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm sure it would take a bit longer for your thing < 1298148007 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298148084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaaah*. < 1298148103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? < 1298148116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder if there is a faster, yet still not extra energy-requiring way of cooling boiling things down to room temperature (to save on refrigeration) < 1298148119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, my packets end up going through a router that gleefully throws away all ICMP messages, including those required for path MTU discovery. < 1298148136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(below room temperature obviously needs energy) < 1298148141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and error reporting: http://p.zem.fi/8yf1 < 1298148151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that router is badly misconfigured < 1298148162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, try to report it to whoever controls it < 1298148162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1298148179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can find who's got it. < 1298148188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Python and error reporting: http://p.zem.fi/8yf1 <-- I have to admit I haven't seen that one, but could it be too much indention compared to the previous line perhaps? < 1298148206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess dependent on temperature, putting things outdoors may help, we sometimes do that in norway (well did when i was a child, at least) < 1298148213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The line was completely empty. The problem was a missing ) in a function comments few lines (and comments) backwards, though. < 1298148233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, we still do here as well. Like when deiceing the freezer or such while it is winter. < 1298148260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in a comment < 1298148262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs netalyzr
< 1298148263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do you mean < 1298148265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i wasn't thinking frozen things, just cooling recently boiled things < 1298148273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it checks you have ( and ) balanced in comments? < 1298148281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that too happens < 1298148295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but I think today it would end up colder than inside the freezer < 1298148296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just mean that it reported the error for the last line of the while, while the one with the missing ( was several lines earlier, and there were comments in-between. < 1298148314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah... < 1298148318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what a strange bug < 1298148325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well you don't want to keep it there too long < 1298148336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, -20 °C over there too? < 1298148391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Current temperature at Otaniemi: -20.81 °C" < 1298148448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The offending host is 184.99.1.22. < 1298148477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, whois(1) is helpful < 1298148482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: around -8 i think, iirc the forecast < 1298148491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, lucky you < 1298148493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no actual outside thermometer handy
< 1298148497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owned by my ISP. < 1298148502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also the forcast was way off < 1298148537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, good luck getting past the stupid IT support when calling < 1298148539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You smarmy Norwegians with your Gulf Streams. < 1298148549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fudge. < 1298148555 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298148557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they've been having this strange phenomenon lately where the three-day forecast sometimes gives far too low temperatures, to the degree yr.no for a while included a warning against it < 1298148560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, might be better to email the email listed in the whois record < 1298148567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipadmin@qwest.com < 1298148568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1298148573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I guess so < 1298148576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first two days are comparably fine) < 1298148584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or abuse if they have one. This is abuse of the router :P < 1298148596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how strange. < 1298148604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1298148605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not actually abuse, just a major administrative fail. < 1298148607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seriously who wrote this toolkit. < 1298148607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection timed out). < 1298148610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH MY CONNECTION < 1298148611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1298148623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what toolkit? < 1298148630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also check if your MTU discovery works < 1298148632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i recall something vague about the computers not being able to handle very local variations < 1298148634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk < 1298148636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what < 1298148642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under some wind conditions < 1298148646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just in case it is some sort of epidemic < 1298148655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTU discovery? < 1298148672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see log, check what pikhq talked about. far too long to explain < 1298148697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, start at " *Aaaaah*." < 1298148705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't skip logs < 1298148713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1298148753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i run to see if there's some evil router in my path :D < 1298148755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traceroute? < 1298148760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/ < 1298148761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: i recall something vague about the computers not being able to handle very local variations <-- hm okay < 1298148772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that seems complicated. i'm not clever. but okay... < 1298148781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it may be all those fjords throwing them off :D < 1298148785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's an automated thing. < 1298148790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hills and stuff < 1298148793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: erm does that page actually have any way to run it < 1298148801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's java. < 1298148801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err? < 1298148804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably won't work, fun < 1298148805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh that doesn't explain why it didn't happen before < 1298148809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here we go < 1298148817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: norway has a lot of local height variation < 1298148828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: okay, let's see if this helps :P < 1298148834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe we have the same problematic router between us < 1298148837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could be BAD ROUTER BUDDIES? < 1298148855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1298148874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't skip logs <-- THAT'S DEDICATION < 1298148881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unlikely. It is at his ISP < 1298148886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shut up. < 1298148888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: buddies *hi5* < 1298148908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you hate the truth? :,( < 1298148910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIND THE BLOODY EXACT DNS MTU < 1298148912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT HARD YO < 1298148915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID COMPUTER < 1298148928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear gtk, < 1298148930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i want to do < 1298148933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make Ctrl+A and Ctrl+E < 1298148935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the right thing < 1298148936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my text widget < 1298148937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't skip logs <-- THAT'S DEDICATION <-- no it is DSM < 1298148941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your API < 1298148943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is so fucking retarded < 1298148944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i can't < 1298148945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1298148946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is that gtk < 1298148949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because you suck < 1298148958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what would C-e do? < 1298148961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298148963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A local "tabloid"-style "news"paper recently (around start of this month) advertised themselves with (paraphrasing) "Exclusive! Exact weather reports for the whole next summer! Only from us!" < 1298148968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you think < 1298148987 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Regarding MREs: The ingridients used probably aren't too healthy, but those rations are likely heavily fortified which would at least provode micronutriets. Unfortunately, the micronutrient list is probably missing couple essential ones. Also, it has so many carbs that one needs solid handling of blood glucose (even with all the activity). < 1298148991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eject harddrive hotswap bay 17 < 1298148997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. go to eol < 1298149005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh isn't that what end does < 1298149012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you... even use emacs? < 1298149015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least I'm used to end doing that in many text editors < 1298149022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I do but I changed some keybindings around < 1298149028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, i use the arrow keys in emacs, but even /I/ use Ctrl+A and Ctrl+E < 1298149030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I don't use ctrl-e or end a lot < 1298149032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck do you move around your shell prompt? < 1298149038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DSM-IV? < 1298149038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you forgot to prepend sudo < 1298149043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah < 1298149043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tap the left arrow key 100 times? < 1298149046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i need to make Ctrl+k do the right thing afterwards too... < 1298149052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/not/ what Emacs treats it as) < 1298149059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know inputrc? < 1298149074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why anyone would use home/end. they're in the block of useless keys. < 1298149074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, home jumps to start of the input for me. Easier to press too < 1298149080 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I was not expecting Star Trek to take a strong anti-euthanasia stance < 1298149082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to press than ctrl+a/e? < 1298149084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1298149086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean I don't even have to move my hand to reach home key < 1298149123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well slightly up. But not much. Don't need to move for end though < 1298149140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on a laptop I do of course, but not on a full size keyboard < 1298149146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder /why/ emacs is so retarded with ctrl-k. < 1298149151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops place those keys so stupidly < 1298149163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, there isn't much choice < 1298149173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn-left and fn-right are home/end on this. < 1298149177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fn-up and fn-down are pgup/pgdwn) < 1298149180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pgdown) < 1298149191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch that hurts < 1298149203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298149204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice < 1298149207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cursor keys are ok on this < 1298149229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really if you can't reach end from home row position on a full size keyboard with the outermost finger your hands are too small :P < 1298149229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298149240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just as well he didn't see that < 1298149263 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298149267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major Abnormalities < 1298149269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ISP's DNS server is slow to lookup names < 1298149271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor Aberrations < 1298149273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certain TCP protocols are blocked in outbound traffic < 1298149275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fragmented UDP traffic is blocked < 1298149277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network path does not reply when it needs to fragment traffic < 1298149281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network packet buffering may be excessive < 1298149283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem to help much. < 1298149296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I very very much doubt fragmenting would happen for IRC < 1298149300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic UDP access is available. < 1298149300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The applet was able to send a packet of 1471 bytes of payload (1499 bytes total) only on the second try, suggesting your host is running Linux (or other path MTU discovery) on UDP traffic. < 1298149300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The applet was unable to receive fragmented UDP traffic. The most likely cause is an error in your network's firewall configuration or NAT. < 1298149301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you too have path MTU discovery broken. < 1298149303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The maximum packet successfully received was 1477 bytes of payload. < 1298149305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTU < 1298149307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see MTU < 1298149314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that MTU looks good < 1298149315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so that would cause me not seeing any messages from the server for ages < 1298149316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then disconnecting < 1298149322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reconnecting nearly immediately? < 1298149326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, no downtime delay) < 1298149335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, at the same time, i get disconnected from MSN Messenger < 1298149339 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does UDP-Lite work? :-> < 1298149340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it's somehow dropping fragmented packets. < 1298149343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's like a temporary outage? < 1298149354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess? < 1298149366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also seem to have bufferbloat. < 1298149369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh: [[We estimate your uplink as having 2600 msec of buffering. This is quite high, and you may experience substantial disruption to your network performance when performing interactive tasks such as web-surfing while simultaneously conducting large uploads. With such a buffer, real-time applications such as games or audio chat can work quite poorly when conducting large uploads at the same time.]] < 1298149370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, you too have path MTU discovery broken. <-- SYNCHRONICITY < 1298149378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently my isp's dns sucks. < 1298149389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo. bogons. < 1298149389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shuffles back into the corner
< 1298149462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I wonder what that netalyzer will tell me. Turned on java to test. In particular I have a local dns server for example < 1298149463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not ended up actually testing my ISP's DNS; my DNS server is on localhost. < 1298149469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i assume you have tried several different irc servers. < 1298149477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also IPsec and an ipv6 tunnel. And what not < 1298149485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um no < 1298149488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use irc.freenode.net < 1298149492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: since i get disconnected from msn messenger. < 1298149496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the irc server. < 1298149503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that _is_ technically several different ones, i believe. < 1298149505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still getting excessive buffering on uplink, even though I've throttled that to the point that load doesn't appear to cause RTT to go up. :/ < 1298149508 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Going! < 1298149528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was the analysis complete when you lost connection? < 1298149533 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1298149534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a default one in sweden and irc. as backup. < 1298149538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1298149542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it presents it all in one go. < 1298149543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah good < 1298149554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU WOULD ASSOCIATE WITH SWEDES? < 1298149567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as long as it completed then since otherwise I bet that would have screwed it up < 1298149582 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298149629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for filtered ports. I guess SMTP? < 1298149681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. and netbios and stuff. < 1298149682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me. < 1298149704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's quite sane < 1298149757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would probably do the same for non-business customers when it comes to SMTP if I ran the network operations for an ISP. And NetBIOS I would definitely block for everyone out. < 1298149779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I wonder why it reports "No DNS Port Randomization" < 1298149781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for quite a while there was no freenode server in norway. i think there is one again now but i haven't bothered to change. < 1298149782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :/ < 1298149803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I use unbound after all < 1298149841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're set up for a DNS cache poisoning. < 1298149853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Check your unbound settings. < 1298149860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1298149870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I would probably do the same for non-business customers when it comes to SMTP if I ran the network operations for an ISP. And NetBIOS I would definitely block for everyone out. < 1298149872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1298149876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocking smtp doesn't help anything. < 1298149886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blocking netbios is pointless, that hasn't been a threat in like 200 yeras. < 1298149888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*years. < 1298149894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking with the tubes is why every ISP sucks. < 1298149905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it prevents sending spam from botnets on those computers < 1298149907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes it helps < 1298149919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And that's why nobody gets any spam! < 1298149933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it would be worse if they didn't block that < 1298149939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1298149949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Gilmore gazes sadly at thee. < 1298149956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, blocking outgoing SMTP prevents people from using *normal mail clients*. < 1298149967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know that strongSwan thing you love? < 1298149969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, great. My IPv6 has asymmetric MTU... < 1298149979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derives from code written by John Gilmore, who now hates you. :P < 1298149982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Derived < 1298149996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, openbsd? < 1298150002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1298150006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, FreeS/WAN. < 1298150014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would Gilmore hate me? < 1298150015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which strongSwan is a fork. < 1298150020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm aware < 1298150021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because he runs an open mail relay. < 1298150026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1298150033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hates a lot of anti-spammers because of it. < 1298150043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(His ISP disabled his connection after a bunch of people yelled.) < 1298150052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He owns the domain toad.com which is one of the 100 oldest active .com domains. It was registered on August 18, 1987. He runs the mail server at toad.com as an open mail relay. In October 2002, Gilmore's ISP, Verio, cut off his Internet access for running an open relay, a violation of Verio's terms of service. Many people contend that open relays make it too easy to send spam. Gilmore protests that his mail server was programmed to be essentially < 1298150052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : useless to spammers and other senders of mass email and he argues that Verio's actions constitute censorship. He also notes that his configuration makes it easier for friends who travel to send email, although his critics counter that there are other mechanisms to accommodate people wanting to send email while traveling. The measures Gilmore took to make his server useless to spammers may or may not have helped, considering that in 2002, at leas < 1298150053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t one massmailing worm that sent through open relays—W32.Yaha—had been hardcoded to relay through the toad.com mailserver. An article citing this was posted, and a subsequent discussion on the issue took place, on Declan McCullagh's Politechbot mailing list. to archived article and discussion < 1298150073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any idea what in unbound settings I should look for? < 1298150074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Blocking outgoing SMTP just means everyone configures your whitelisted SMTP server as their "outgoing mail" server; I thought that was pretty much common practice. I mean, normal email clients don't do direct-to-MX mail delivery. < 1298150091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, blocking open mail relays does not really help at all. < 1298150095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spam problem is way too big for that to matter at all. < 1298150111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not a clue; it "just works" for me. < 1298150114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see nothing obviously wrong. So it would have to be bad defaults. < 1298150156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm I suspect my NAT might be doing something strange with DNS requests < 1298150159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would make sense < 1298150162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Funny, by having a single SMTP server whitelisted then you're either making it so that people can only use the ISP's mail service *or* you're giving them a completely open relay. < 1298150170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which *actually allows spam*. < 1298150181 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows was being weird < 1298150200 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A YouTube video randomly lept to my desktop < 1298150227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw SMTP was not blocked for me < 1298150235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OH NOES SPAMME < 1298150238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1298150242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any idea about: pikhq, great. My IPv6 has asymmetric MTU... < 1298150250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not a clue. < 1298150256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The ISP's whitelisted server of course allows "spam" coming from their customer networks, yes. It's not an "open relay" though. < 1298150258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also "Your system can send fragmented traffic, but can not receive fragmented traffic over IPv6." < 1298150277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Close enough as far as a botnet is concerned. < 1298150293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a botnet smart enough to actually figure out which SMTP server is allowed. < 1298150312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and what about password for SMTP server? < 1298150320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Botnet can sniff. < 1298150323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1298150323 0 :invariable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1298150338 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298150357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server address is probably diggable from Outlook/Thunderbird/maybe-a-few-more-clients configuration settings pretty easily for say 98% of hosts. < 1298150361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, blocking SMTP does very little beyond making things inconvenient for legit use. < 1298150419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err wait it says I'm good on SMTP out for ipv6 but it doesn't even list it for ipv4 < 1298150443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still not exactly an unknown practice. I'm not sure what my ISP does, since I'm just using their outgoing SMTP server anyway. < 1298150473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your system can successfully look up IPv6 addresses. Your DNS resolver is not on Google's IPv6 "whitelist", which means that Google does not enable IPv6 access to their services for you. < 1298150476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION appears to have all outgoing ports allowed.
< 1298150477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they point that out < 1298150483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it isn't done by google? < 1298150492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any ISPs that don't provide an open-to-their-customers SMTP relay server, though; it's not like the customers in question have anything else to put in their email client's outgoing-server configurations. < 1298150496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because google's ipv6 whitelist is important < 1298150501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err? < 1298150502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they leave off services that have problems or something < 1298150503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1298150513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1298150515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Google currently only hands out AAAA records to whitelisted servers on networks that have working IPv6. < 1298150522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think there's some IPv6-enabled services that, when Google gave them IPv6 access, IPv4 access to Google got way slower < 1298150523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1298150526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1298150555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The issue is that broken systems will claim to have IPv6 but not actually have it. < 1298150557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can imagine that ipv6 is slower than ipv4 in a lot of cases as well as there being timeouts on ipv6 first < 1298150561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Rite. < 1298150563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Causing them to wait for a IPv6 timeout. < 1298150565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you can't send AAAA JUST ANYWHERE < 1298150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To qualify for Google over IPv6, your network must meet a number of requirements. These include: < 1298150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Low latency, redundant paths to Google using direct peering or reliable transit < 1298150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Production-quality IPv6 support and reliability < 1298150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Separate DNS servers for your IPv6 users (not shared with IPv4-only users) < 1298150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Users who have opted in to IPv6 services and know how to opt out if they experience problems with Google services" < 1298150576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have quite some requirements there. < 1298150581 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even worse problems: Some systems have IPv6 connectivity but the path is broken somewhere. < 1298150605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Those requirements are sure to change soon. < 1298150620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users who have opted in to IPv6 services and know how to opt out if they experience problems with Google services" < 1298150620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298150621 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IPv6 is only "slower" if your system is set to try IPv6 first but they service doesn't offer IPv6 but it does provide AAAA records < 1298150621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that happens a lot on ipv6 :P < 1298150624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more than a year until we've got v6-only hosts going up. < 1298150635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, no it is slower if you have an ipv6 tunnel < 1298150636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: or if your isp is broken < 1298150637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, ... < 1298150639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: The issue is that broken systems will claim to have IPv6 but not actually have it. < 1298150641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Causing them to wait for a IPv6 timeout. < 1298150649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, as I have < 1298150651 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok - or if you have a tunnel < 1298150652 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already seen v6-only hosts. < 1298150658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, really? < 1298150667 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : variable: or if your isp is broken --> same with V4 < 1298150668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Probably not common, though. < 1298150674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: uh, not really < 1298150678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: because every isp supports v4 < 1298150679 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even included v6 address literals. < 1298150683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: IPv4 breakage is obvious. < 1298150686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :claim to have v6 + don't support v6 + AAAA -> timeout < 1298150688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> slow < 1298150710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen even more bizarre IPv6 breakage than paths not working. < 1298150711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 breakage will be perceived as "Dang, this site is slow. WTF?" < 1298150735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the host is v6-only, in which case it's obvious again. This is just not a common case yet.) < 1298150787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically: TCP connection establishes (paths both ways working) but then the connection instahangs as first packet other end sends gets blackholed. There will be no fallback to IPv4 since the connection established. < 1298150809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay the port for DNS issue is due to my NAT. I checked with wireshark... < 1298150814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck speedtouch < 1298150816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how good Bogons' IPv6 is. < 1298150824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's perverse. < 1298150859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your NAT is broken. < 1298150873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'd have a static IP < 1298150875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IP. < 1298150879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And could use a proper router. < 1298150908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I blame speedtouch < 1298150935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SpeedTouch gateways have been criticized because the algorithm used by the manufacturer to set both the default SSID and the corresponding WEP/WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK passwords was very easily compromised, meaning that wireless access to SpeedTouch models that still use the default password is easily possible.[20] < 1298150937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I could use a proper router by reconfiguring the adsl modem to not do NAT and then buy an expensive router < 1298150949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean: I could use a proper Linksys modem too. < 1298150951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic. < 1298150955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Bogons aren't assholes. < 1298150959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Eeeew. < 1298150968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh my speedtouch didn't have default settings for either of those and required you to fill that in. < 1298150968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298150970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ? < 1298150985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, " pikhq, yes I blame speedtouch" -> " Vorpal: Eeeew." or? < 1298150987 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298150993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THIS BULLSHIT < 1298150995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE LIKE TODAY < 1298150999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND MAYBE YESTERDAY NIGHT < 1298151007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SpeedTouch seems to be filled with security violations, then. < 1298151018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway: elliott, uh my speedtouch didn't have default settings for either of those and required you to fill that in. < 1298151033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and well default SSID/pass. Keeping those is just stupid anyway < 1298151047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you do that it isn't the manufacture's fault. It is your own fault. < 1298151056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's SSID is Revolutionary Opticians. don't ask.
< 1298151074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is a randomly generated string. Well pseudo-randomly < 1298151092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously it was "supersonic mosquitos", which is just as meaningless. < 1298151100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think it's reasonable to expect random users to set their own SSID. < 1298151108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I manufactured an AP I would make it use the default SSID "CONFIGURE THIS" and the default password "FILL THIS IN" < 1298151108 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is "lifetime supply" with a password of some random foodstuff < 1298151121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh please. < 1298151125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ? < 1298151127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with -? < 1298151142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason users should have to be bugged with setting that. < 1298151145 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: most users wouldn't change - even though it says to < 1298151146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298151154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. Windows should come with default password for your account too < 1298151181 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298151182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, right. Windows should come with default password for your account too. < 1298151183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I COMPLETELY AGREE! < 1298151186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, if I manufactured an AP I would make it use the default SSID "CONFIGURE THIS" and the default password "FILL THIS IN" < 1298151189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mine is "lifetime supply" with a password of some random foodstuff < 1298151191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Oh please. < 1298151193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, ? < 1298151194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got that... < 1298151195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's wrong with -? < 1298151197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's no reason users should have to be bugged with setting that. < 1298151201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude. SSID != password ... < 1298151207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a shit what your SSID is if you have a good password? < 1298151212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true but for the password for the network < 1298151224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so okay the SSID could be randomised like you suggest < 1298151230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the password would be FILL THIS IN < 1298151233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1298151253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of "FILL THIS IN" why not just have it redirect all pages to a "yo gimme a password" screen. < 1298151257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then people would actually see it :P < 1298151292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assumed it would be required to change on that "first setup" page you get < 1298151312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know, where you enter stuff like ADSL login and what not < 1298151326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1298151347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Forgot about it, but I did in fact also plot the overall match-length histogram back then: http://zem.fi/~fis/cycleh15b.png < 1298151367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But while we're dreaming, can we eliminate ADSL too? < 1298151376 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people would be guaranteed to enter one and just forget what they put in. It would be better to provide one to the user with a warning that says "print this out" -> its better to tell the user to take affirmative action to remember things than passive action to "not forget" things < 1298151382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is the x-axis tape length? < 1298151394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i followed the *.abuse.email (iirc) newgroup for a while during the 90's. blocking outgoing smtp was very much considered an essential prevention agains spam then. < 1298151400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WiFi passwords are a bit pointless, "pairing" seems much saner < 1298151404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's the match length in 10^x cycles. It's a match length histogram, after all. < 1298151412 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WiFi passwords are a bit pointless, "pairing" seems much saner ---> agreed < 1298151414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have to physically press a button on the router to let a new MAC connect < 1298151415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But while we're dreaming, can we eliminate ADSL too? <-- yeah but it is unlikely you would get cable everywhere that you could get ADSL < 1298151417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost reasons < 1298151422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cable? Fibre. < 1298151435 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or even just a number on the device with a "pairing password" or whatever < 1298151436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is even more unlikely outside cities < 1298151438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fibre? Telepathy. < 1298151448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Eh, it's happening... < 1298151460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that place that was rolling out fibre into shitloads of rural areas? .au? < 1298151467 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibre and the last few tens of metres with Ethernet? :-) < 1298151468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by my norm, some 90% of UK is densely populated :P < 1298151479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Broadband_Network < 1298151486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1298151495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Committed download speeds of 100 megabits per second, and peak download speeds of 1 gigabit per second for 93% of Australia homes and businesses[10] using a Gigabit Passive optical network (GPON) or Ethernet Point to Point fibre[11] < 1298151495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The remainder of Australian homes and businesses will be serviced by a combination of next generation wireless and satellite technologies with a minimum speed of 12 megabits per second < 1298151545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... what < 1298151545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Underground Ethernet cables, I like it :P < 1298151549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1298151551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prods ipv6 config* < 1298151577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the bottleneck listed for the assymetric MTU is my tunnel endpoint < 1298151579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1298151582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, even by your norm Australia is like 0% densely populated :P < 1298151586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what is going on here < 1298151591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fibre on a wide scale _is_ feasible... < 1298151645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... "[...] providing download speeds of up to 1 Gigabit per second to 93% of Australian homes and businesses, with the remaining 7% of premises being connected at up to 12 Megabits per second using wireless and satellite technologies," < 1298151655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now. About what percentage lives in the outback? < 1298151660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not about the outback. < 1298151661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 8-10% ? < 1298151663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298151673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course it is feasible in Sydney < 1298151675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's plenty of rural areas near the cities that aren't in the outback :P < 1298151675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1298151688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR news stories about them laying down fibre in such places. < 1298151689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but outback is where the big problems start < 1298151706 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: /dev/io failed < 1298151707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people in the outback are happy enough to have water, never mind fibre-optic broadband :P < 1298151729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. And I suspect they are about 7%, perhaps slightly more or slightly less < 1298151752 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1298151752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt 7%. Less. < 1298151758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1298151773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But anyway, if we're talking about its relevancy to other countries, we can just pretend the outback doesn't exist X-P < 1298151782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sonera seems to be doing quite a lot of "fibre to the basement" sort of stuff nowadays, and then the last few metres with VDSL2 (for buildings with no suitable Ethernets in them, of course). < 1298151802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibre to the room. You need to run copper from there to your computer. < 1298151820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibre to the head. < 1298151827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that doesn't help us who live in freestanding houses < 1298151842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibre to the one-cm-gap-to-your-Ethernet-port. < 1298151850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a teeny tiny Ethernet connecting the rest of the way. < 1298151851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm sure they'd be willing to dig a cable to your place too if you just fork over enough money. :p < 1298151856 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've seen proposals to have fibre to the computer < 1298151863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIBRE TO THE MOTHERBOARD < 1298151868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fibre to the on-board fibre controller in your laptop :P < 1298151869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just gonna open up your computer here, hope you don't mind" < 1298151870 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and cut out the ethernet connection entirely) < 1298151873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt that will happen < 1298151894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, the issue with that is distributing it to a LAN < 1298151895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: That's kind of impractical unless we get fibre routers. < 1298151899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be "interesting". < 1298151920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fibre *switches* do exist, no? < 1298151934 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vorpal I'm very much aware of that. Nonetheless I've seen serious proposals (from people in the business) to offer this < 1298151934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could work if everybody normal used wifi, and the SPEED DEMONS plugged the fibre cable in to their DECKED OUT motherboard. < 1298151945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consumer use of Ethernet is dying out I'd say. < 1298151970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, really? < 1298151972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1298151981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's all wireless nowadays. < 1298151981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but wifi is slow and unreliable < 1298151991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n is "slow"? < 1298151993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By what definition? < 1298151997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unreliable"? By what definition? < 1298152011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by comparing to gbit ethernet over S/UTP :P < 1298152015 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1298152016 0 :invariable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1298152023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, nobody uses that. < 1298152025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's irrelevant. < 1298152037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, everyone seems to use channel 6 or 11.... < 1298152043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stick to 13, then you are mostly good to go < 1298152053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs manual reconfiguration in your AP likely < 1298152064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I use that < 1298152070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but you're not a Person. < 1298152077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not factor in to any statistics. < 1298152079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides I doubt computers will be without ethernet for some time to come < 1298152082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your use-case does not exist. < 1298152092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :802.11n speeds in reality do tend to be a bit less-than-impressive, at least with the AP behind a few walls and so on. Perfectly usable for most things, of course, but not the promised multi-hundred-megabits all the time. < 1298152093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, becuase companies use it < 1298152097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm sure it'll happen on laptops very, very quickly. < 1298152101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thinkpads? < 1298152102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Businesses are an excuse to sell business machines. < 1298152104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really? < 1298152112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody apart from business uses ThinkPads. < 1298152119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *ahem* < 1298152129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't really know what Sonera's fibre-to-the-basement business model is; our apartment building (with 48 apartments) got a letter from Sonera that they'd like to dig a cable (or use an existing pipe) to our telephone center box completely free of charge; we're sort of expecting they're going to follow with another letter somewhere along the lines of "now that you have our cable there, how about some speedy internets?" < 1298152141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You do not exist. Nobody is going to make decisions based on your use-case, which does not exist. < 1298152143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 802.11n speeds in reality do tend to be a bit less-than-impressive, at least with the AP behind a few walls and so on. Perfectly usable for most things, of course, but not the promised multi-hundred-megabits all the time. <-- indeed < 1298152152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are one percent of a percent of a percent of a percent of a percent of a percent. < 1298152155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me see what I get on 11g here... *fiddles with laptop* < 1298152156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is 0 percent. < 1298152171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curse you, why do you take ages to connect < 1298152198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Buffer bloat kills 802.11. < 1298152200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 Mb/s according to iwconfig < 1298152205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now down to 1 < 1298152218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is 11g though, but the laptop can do 11n as well < 1298152232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You probably have seconds of buffer. < 1298152233 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that and double-up/half-back < 1298152250 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which hurts speeds in general) < 1298152254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 18 Mb/s now < 1298152259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1298152264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, on that laptop yes I would have that < 1298152272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I normally hook it up on gbit ethernet when home < 1298152272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298152273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kills TCP congestion control, which kills latency and bandwidth. < 1298152287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and it's up to 24 Mb/s now < 1298152287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And makes congested links entirely unusable. < 1298152371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to beat all the people who think that no packet loss is a desirable thing.
< 1298152379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping reports rtt to google.com over wlan as avg of 33.114 ms. Let me hook it back up on ethernet and compare < 1298152382 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ditto < 1298152393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try saturating the link and then pinging google.com. < 1298152407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, meh I don't want to flood myself off irc :P < 1298152413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah - but - the gamers. < 1298152417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ping google.com" < 1298152420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0% packet loss" < 1298152427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FUCK YEA MY CONNECTION IMA FRAG SOME NOOBS WITH MY ULTRA-LOW PINGIZZLE" < 1298152429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, the gamers want to minimise latency. < 1298152437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's factor A. < 1298152440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're forgetting factor B. < 1298152441 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: packet loss != latency < 1298152443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor B: Gamers are retarded. < 1298152446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: See above. < 1298152455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oddly enough, the smarter ones have been mitigating bufferbloat for a while now. < 1298152457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway for gbit ethernet it is 31.338 average < 1298152466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are the same people who build glow-in-the-dark watercooled monstrosities :P < 1298152470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but note I'm on channel 13, and that is not crowded for some reason < 1298152475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Saturate the link. < 1298152477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tweak Windows god knows how much. < 1298152479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it seems auto selecting of channels try to skip it < 1298152493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, by scping something to another computer on the lan or? < 1298152497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latency on an uncongested link is not a very good measure any more... < 1298152518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that depends on which buffer you want to see at max. :P < 1298152532 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* measuring internet speeds have been the subject of PhD thesis < 1298152533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I will not be able to saturate ethernet for it. Since it is the only computer turned on atm with gbit ethernet < 1298152589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Doesn't require a doctorate to realise that latency on uncongested links is not very important when congestion can add seconds of latency. < 1298152589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY INTERNETS ARE FAST BECAUSE I GET -3 MS PING < 1298152593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S RIGHT < 1298152596 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know < 1298152597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PING RESPONSES COME BEFORE I SEND THEM < 1298152611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, it certainly can be complex. < 1298152612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, that is because things are so stupid. Something like the CAN bus is dead trivial to figure out < 1298152620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course it wouldn't scale) < 1298152623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: "It's the Latency, Stupid" amuses me highly < 1298152635 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you mean? < 1298152640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/rants/Latency.html < 1298152655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: The page: MODEMS HAVE 100 MS LATENCY! Me: Damn, I wish I got that kind of ping. < 1298152670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err, I have QoS setup I think from an earlier experiment. So it might not be as easy to check this. < 1298152675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets 80ms ping to Google.
< 1298152694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: QoS != avoiding buffer bloat. < 1298152699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1298152700 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: odd. I read _A lot_ about this subject and have not come across this before < 1298152705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unless you've got it set to shape bandwidth to slightly less than provisioned. < 1298152710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: really? < 1298152711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite famous < 1298152721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I forgot what I set it up < 1298152724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do < 1298152731 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hence the "odd" - I'm reading it now < 1298152746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your local network is probably still susceptible, but your WAN link should be just fine. < 1298152759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway doesn't 802.11 do checksuming and resending across the *link*. As opposed to normal wired connections that do it at the endpoints < 1298152790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I seem to remember this < 1298152792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 802.11 doesn't do resending at all. < 1298152796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, really? < 1298152798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1298152807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a minor modification of the Ethernet scheme. < 1298152823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, could be I confused it with wimax or 3G or something then < 1298152837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G does checksumming and resending across the link, yes. < 1298152852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a large number of other things that really fuck with TCP. < 1298152860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right. Which is very strange. It goes against one of the major keypoints to making internet scale < 1298152870 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually - I did see it before. I recall the conclusion of the article. Maybe I saw a quote? < 1298152879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Mm. < 1298152879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Telephone networks are set up assuming that the network is smart and the endpoints are retarded. < 1298152894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Internet is set up assuming that the network is retarded and the endpoints are smart. < 1298152900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, uh... but that is no longer true for data traffic over 3G < 1298152901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1298152912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what we're seeing is impedence mismatch between the two spaces. < 1298152914 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like that analogy < 1298152932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: pikhq: Also: "Everyone knows that when you buy a hard disk you should check what its seek time is. The maximum transfer rate is something you might also be concerned with, but the seek time is definitely more important." < 1298152937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: pikhq: I WISH THAT WERE STILL TRUE. < 1298152938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But oh no. < 1298152941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY DRIVE IS 10KRPM!! LOL! < 1298152942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAST! < 1298152945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, I don't see that it is an analogy. It seems plain fact < 1298152962 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: s/analogy/way of stating it/ < 1298152977 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know its true - but I've never been able to explain it easily < 1298152978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the idiots who dismiss SSDs because, omg, their linear transfer rate isn't as good as my 1000000000KRPM "RAPTORSAURUS SEX"! < 1298152980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, indeed < 1298152984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1298152984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*REX < 1298152993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, 1000000000 krpm raptosaurus sex. < 1298153004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Freud was right < 1298153027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: INDEED, LIKE HE SAID, SOMETIMES A CIGAR IS JUST A CIGAR, LIKE NOW. STOP LOOKING AT MY CIGAR. < 1298153028 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've been working on my soft skills (writing, etc) because I know a lot of the "hard" stuff already - I like seeing better ways to explain things :-) < 1298153035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1298153061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, resort to technical terms. < 1298153065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1298153065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298153074 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I dislike SSDs because of the fast failure rate. Once that's under control (and the price is reasonable) I'll care a lot more < 1298153087 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298153092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike SSD because of the price yeah. < 1298153093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : invariable, resort to technical terms. < 1298153095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: WHAT A GREAT IDEA < 1298153097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). < 1298153099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSPIRACY. < 1298153104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1298153105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : invariable, resort to technical terms. < 1298153105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;) < 1298153106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) < 1298153111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:04:34 elliott: I dislike SSDs because of the fast failure rate. Once that's under control (and the price is reasonable) I'll care a lot more < 1298153114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think I was serious? < 1298153121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: The failure rate isn't fast on any good SSDs that I know of (Intel). < 1298153123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't see the ;) :P < 1298153126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: SSD's failure rate is pretty low by now. < 1298153132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Think "years of constant use". < 1298153136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Besides, the failure mode is "becomes read-only". < 1298153147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is *one* failure mode < 1298153147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the failure rate is, of course, based on number of write cycles. < 1298153147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Which is a lot better than mechanical disks' failure mode, which is "OH GOD MY DATA". < 1298153149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the only one < 1298153151 0 :StukaBR!~StukaBR@189.124.198.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298153152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The most common failure mode by far :P < 1298153153 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: its still worse than typical HDDs. And its not pure failure rate. its sector failure rate < 1298153169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: I would trust data to an Intel SSD more than I would trust it to any mechanical disk. < 1298153178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike mechanical disk's failure rate, which is based on time running. < 1298153178 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : invariable: Besides, the failure mode is "becomes read-only". --> this is interesting < 1298153186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And spin-up cycles. < 1298153188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Because, again, by FAR the most common way for an SSD to fail is: after lots and lots of writing, data becomes read-only. < 1298153189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will switch to SSD when I can afford two 1 TB ones < 1298153191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use in RAID 1 < 1298153206 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting - I'd like to read more about that < 1298153208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put some data on an SSD, and leave it for 50 years, you've got a damn good chance of being able to read it back. Perhaps even longer. < 1298153210 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a link ? < 1298153214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just guesses of course. < 1298153223 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may change my mind on SSDs
< 1298153230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Hmm, no, I haven't, but AnandTech is my source for SSD-related info. < 1298153230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, his* < 1298153235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, /me uses third person < 1298153235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, the capacity/dollar ratio is the only downside to SSDs right now. < 1298153240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's just around 5 kiloeur; you are so cheap! < 1298153245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1298153245 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MEH < 1298153248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Quick google brings up this (HIGHLY RELIABLE) forum thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2020590 < 1298153257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It depends on the failure mode. For instance, when set on fire, hard drives and SSDs both provide equally fantastic recovery rates of 0%. " < 1298153278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For certain failure modes, it is believed that SSDs will still allow you to recover whatever data was previously on the drive; that said, all the SSD failures I've ever heard of have been non-recoverable firmware issues." ;; this is probably true because it's hard to invoke the real failure mode... but Intel SSD firmware is good from what i hear < 1298153278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and for hdds it is like.... 2000 SEK? < 1298153280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that was in 2009 < 1298153282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, something like that < 1298153283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDs are much more mature now < 1298153285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not quite. It may be possible to have a forensics lab extract some data. < 1298153290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE LIKE TODAY <-- wild hypothesis: isps are no starting to scramble to get ipv6 working and breaking everything else in the process < 1298153291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Thermite*, on the other hand. < 1298153297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1298153301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is about 220 EUR < 1298153306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :230* < 1298153307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1298153309 0 :StukaBR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1298153327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Anyway the only sane thing to put on SSDs nowadays is OS and software because of the capacity/cost ratio. < 1298153335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm, hot enough to randomise the magnetic domains. < 1298153338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those, you don't really care how reliable the data is. :P < 1298153345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Who backs up their OS?) < 1298153354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows users. < 1298153354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE LIKE TODAY <-- wild hypothesis: isps are no starting to scramble to get ipv6 working and breaking everything else in the process <-- too good to be true < 1298153358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1 TB SATA HDs are somewhere around 50-60 eur, so it's 120 EUR for 2*1TB. < 1298153367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Such* a fucking pain to reinstall. < 1298153370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PFFT LIKE ANYBODY USES WINDOWS. < 1298153370 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes - this is true. If I had the money I might actually look into doing so < 1298153391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like your statistics. First you dismiss me as 0%, then you do the same to windows users < 1298153393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298153399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I don't think it's reasonable to expect random users to set their own SSID. <-- heck my landlady cannot even find where she mislaid the passwords that _were_ set... < 1298153423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which means no one but her actually gets to use the wireless) < 1298153431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Wellll, the lucky people who have newegg can get a 40 Gio Intel SSD for $94.99. < 1298153433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why doesn't she just get a paperclip and push it into the reset hole? < 1298153436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, if it weren't out of stock.) < 1298153440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: And 80 Gio for $171.99. < 1298153466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where 80 Gio ~= 86 Go, of course. < 1298153467 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my budget for computer parts was exhausted recently when I bought another 2GB stick of ram :-\ < 1298153473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "mere" $4000 for a 1TB SSD. < 1298153487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 1TiB. < 1298153489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Hehe... must be a pretty small budget considering how cheap RAM is :) unless you're on DDR or something. < 1298153494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Can you even get 2 Gio DDR sticks?) < 1298153497 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was $30 < 1298153499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is wrong with the word "byte" < 1298153507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you using octets suddenly < 1298153508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There have been systems with 9-bit bytes. < 1298153512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true... < 1298153519 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I need to pay for other things... like university :-\\ < 1298153520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because I'm legally obligated to rip off Deewiant at every available opportunity. < 1298153523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: :-) < 1298153526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he did that? < 1298153529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs university when you have computers! < 1298153535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: His Fungicide results use "io", yes. < 1298153543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with a capital K for Kio because he's a Nazi. < 1298153544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why do you not use bits As in... 320 Gib? < 1298153553 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unfortunately one can't get grant money without a degree :-\ < 1298153558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WAY TO NOT PUNCTUATE, got confused there < 1298153567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yes, I would use b to denote internet speeds. < 1298153572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My internet connection is 8 Mib. < 1298153576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oops missed a . indeed < 1298153578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose it might technically be 8 Mb, but I doubt it.) < 1298153589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mib/s < 1298153589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mb/s < 1298153593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since I've got 1 Mio/s download occassionally.) < 1298153596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use o and bit because b is overloaded < 1298153606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298153617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow I have two 8 Gib HDDs. Isn't that impressive. < 1298153617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1298153624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1298153627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when I don't care that much about comprehension, anyway < 1298153628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow I have two 8 Tib HDDs. Isn't that impressive. < 1298153629 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298153629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1298153633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, wow I have two 8 Tib HDDs. Isn't that impressive. < 1298153634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1298153634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I only use o and bit because b is overloaded < 1298153636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Not for all those people on systems with 9-bit bytes? < 1298153638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). < 1298153640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Using bytes is like measuring things in megawords! < 1298153643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet most people wouldn't notice the lower case b < 1298153644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a RELIC of the PAST!!! < 1298153644 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when I installed the extra 2GB of ram I found an extra HDD in the case I didn't know I had < 1298153654 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your connection is horid :-| < 1298153664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: Yeah, I appear to have the same problem pikhq is having X-D < 1298153664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, you what < 1298153670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Except worse. < 1298153671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telecom people do tend to use M instead of Mi everywhere, so 8 Mbps sounds more likely. < 1298153671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, was it unconnected? < 1298153672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: b is overloaded to mean byte and bit, and byte is further overloaded :-P < 1298153674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH THANKS. < 1298153676 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1298153680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, SATA or PATA? < 1298153688 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IDE :-( < 1298153689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, I trial-and-error'd the right MTU. < 1298153692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, I wonder how invariable got ahold of 2 megabels of RAM. < 1298153696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a hold of < 1298153704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, okay you can still hook it up and use it for swap or such < 1298153711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, most mobos still have some IDE connectors < 1298153714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping -s SIZE -M do www.google.com < 1298153714 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is exactly what I did < 1298153718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, and? < 1298153721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, what was on it? < 1298153726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, was the disk broken? < 1298153727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET PLANS < 1298153731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The net here is *very* theoretically 24 Mbps, but it's never quite that even channel-wise. < 1298153733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIZE will be 28 smaller than the actual link MTU. < 1298153734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable, was it a quantum fireball? < 1298153736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't IDE = PATA? < 1298153739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1298153741 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nothing useful. Disk worked. using it for swap now < 1298153742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where = is pronounced "equal to" < 1298153742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1298153743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :styx> wan adsl chandata < 1298153743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSL standard: ADSL2+ Mode < 1298153743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near-end bit rate: 20282 kbps < 1298153743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far-end bit rate: 1015 kbps < 1298153748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's in fact quite close. < 1298153748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pikhq: FIGHT < 1298153751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PATA = ATA over IDE. < 1298153757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What kind of monster uses > as a prompt? < 1298153759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh. < 1298153762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed pikhq is right < 1298153764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDE is a variant of ISA. < 1298153775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what, really? < 1298153779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1298153785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is IDE really a variant of the *ISA bus*? < 1298153787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a ZyXEL ADSL modem thingie; it runs something bizarrely named, I think it was ZyNOS. < 1298153788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298153791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, crazy < 1298153805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xenu. < 1298153807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so did they use something else than ATA over IDE? < 1298153808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XenOS. < 1298153811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZyNOS. < 1298153813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COINCIDENCE? < 1298153815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK NOT. < 1298153820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PCI over IDE! < 1298153829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, PCI over ISA is just silly :P < 1298153832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The IDE protocol. < 1298153839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is/was that? < 1298153845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI over IDE would be awesome. < 1298153849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PLUG THE GRAPHICS CARD INTO YOUR HARD DRIVE PORT." < 1298153863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, never mind. < 1298153870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATA and IDE are synonyms. < 1298153873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1298153883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and was ISA ever involved? < 1298153884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATAPI, however, *is* tunneled over IDE. < 1298153887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1298153891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1298153907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The first IDE adapters were just cards with a port onto the ISA bus. < 1298153923 0 :invariable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah - I only saw a quote from that article. thanks for linking me to the original < 1298153928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no host controllers? < 1298153929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invariable: YOU'RE WELCOME < 1298153931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later enhancements basically just clocked it faster. < 1298153937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now why is GTK so terrible? < 1298153937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so modern IDE was like... high speed ISA with some crazy DMA stuff? < 1298153937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API-wise. < 1298153951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which sounds laughable < 1298153955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which works just fine, because ISA actually has no fixed bus speed. < 1298153974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It originally used the CPU clock. < 1298153975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true, but why did we get PCI then instead of just boosting ISA? < 1298153992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only fixed it because the clock speed got to be too high for the physical connectors. < 1298154024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO STUPID < 1298154028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, modern IDE is high-speed ISA with DMA tacked on. < 1298154037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true, but why did we get PCI then instead of just boosting ISA? < 1298154037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS IT SO TERRIBLE. WHY. < 1298154046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ISA sucks ass. < 1298154058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see, but so does x86. Yet we still have it < 1298154074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because capitalism. < 1298154077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see y'all don't feel my pain. < 1298154083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... what? < 1298154096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The processors changed their system bus, so ISA was no longer the default. < 1298154102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, switch to 3G or something for now... < 1298154109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1298154112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not the net. i can deal with that. < 1298154116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm complaining about gtk being terribly-designed < 1298154120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1298154121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to bind ctrl+a and ctrl+e properly :( < 1298154125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ISA was literally the *system bus* for x86 processors. < 1298154139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume you would have to subscribe to some sort of event? < 1298154151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, GUI stuff tends to be event-driven iirc < 1298154151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298154152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than try and devise a higher-speed ISA, motherboard manufacturers just grabbed PCI parts off the shelf, and voila. < 1298154166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, PCI existed before? < 1298154168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298154172 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298154178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I presume you would have to subscribe to some sort of event? < 1298154179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, GUI stuff tends to be event-driven iirc < 1298154179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) < 1298154179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I presume you would have to subscribe to some sort of event? < 1298154181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I've already handled /that/, the point is how to do it to the text widget, which is ABSTRACTED TO ALL HELL. < 1298154184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). < 1298154186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To wit: < 1298154199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A GtkSourceView displays the contents of a GtkSourceBuffer which knows what language it is (for some reason). < 1298154207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are various GtkTextMarks or something in a SourceBuffer. < 1298154210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hold various positions. < 1298154217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including one for the cursor and one for the selection. < 1298154225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To change a mark, you have to make a GtkTextIter from the GtkSourceBuffer, < 1298154235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then pass that to a method of the GtkSourceBuffer along with the GtkSomethingMark representing the cursor. < 1298154246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1298154247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PCI was created as a CPU-agnostic bus standard in '93. < 1298154251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to top it all off, the TextIter API is TOTALLY UNINTUITIVE and I have NO IDEA how to just tell it to go to the start of the fucking line. < 1298154253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1298154257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD. < 1298154265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but the system bus stopped being PCI a long time ago < 1298154275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and went to be things like HT and what not < 1298154278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The system bus was never PCI. < 1298154283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh okay < 1298154284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PCI is an expansion bus. < 1298154296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, FSB was the system bus for intel for a long time right? < 1298154311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas ISA was literally a few lines drawn from the CPU socket. < 1298154319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check what it does for other keys. Or what gedit and such does < 1298154355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: set_line(get_line())? < 1298154361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't look at what it does for other keys, it'll be written in C. < 1298154362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GObject C. < 1298154369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes for gedit. < 1298154373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mortal can read that. < 1298154382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are those actual methods or did you just make 'em up? :P < 1298154403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... weakling < 1298154406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled 'gtk textiter' and went to the first non-pygtk link and found those < 1298154408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GOBJECT. < 1298154414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm using pygtk X-D < 1298154427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, why doesn't she just get a paperclip and push it into the reset hole? <-- because she has no idea that such a thing exists? < 1298154429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, evidently pygtk has the same methods < 1298154433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, to get a clock speed faster than a few megahertz out of there, you would need to redo the physical attachment, and when you're doing that you may as well just grab a different bus. < 1298154436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think that actually sends you back though. < 1298154439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably need set_line_index. < 1298154439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you actually try google... < 1298154440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i barely do myself) < 1298154443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: YES FFS. < 1298154450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially one being backed by a major company. < 1298154455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PCI is Intel's handiwork) < 1298154459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You probably need set_line_index. <-- try it < 1298154462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, and I need the same behaviour as home/end, i.e. skipping whitespace at start and finish... and I bet I'll have to hack up my own to get that working for Ctrl+a/Ctrl+e. < 1298154463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "sets the textiter location to the start of the line", dude. < 1298154473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, Deewiant: Oh, and I need the same behaviour as home/end, i.e. skipping whitespace at start and finish... and I bet I'll have to hack up my own to get that working for Ctrl+a/Ctrl+e. < 1298154480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anise soda: SO GOOD < 1298154486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298154505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PCI itself got replaced because 33 or 66 MHz sucks. < 1298154507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You will recall that my connection is fucked up beyond comprehension. < 1298154508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you need stuff like that, the only way I can tell is to manually run backward/forward a char at a time < 1298154509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P <-- he does that a lot as I pointed out before < 1298154515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, blech. < 1298154519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, shut up. < 1298154528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hooray", max speed of 533 MB/s. < 1298154533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liquoricoids make me physically sick. < 1298154558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OMG IT IS SO GOOD < 1298154572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298154573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I WANT IT < 1298154578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I do next (I'm cycling through the single-flavorant sodas before mixing): Cinnamon, banana, or maple? < 1298154586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(133 MB/s on common equipment) < 1298154617 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298154625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hmm. Cinnamon would be... interesting, and I suspect it'd blend with anise respectably. < 1298154627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 317 < 1298154630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E_NOT_ACTUALLY_FUNNY < 1298154635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, maple < 1298154639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298154641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no... < 1298154644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298154644 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298154648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will add it back < 1298154649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it was an example of hypocrisy, this same conversation fits the same model: < 1298154663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You're a rapist! [LATER:] elliott: Ouch, stop raping people. < 1298154679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... what? I don't think I said that. < 1298154709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, maple is the stupidest. < 1298154726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maple is awesome. < 1298154738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not as a drink. < 1298154757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, drink maple syrup! < 1298154760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I missed anything? < 1298154765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be a bit gross though < 1298154767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been paying attention < 1298154775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a few hours of random stuff? < 1298154783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also Anise soda: SO GOOD < 1298154786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I once drank balsamic vinegar. < 1298154792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, DO THAT < 1298154794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... ? < 1298154798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what... < 1298154823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems he made himself some soda < 1298154841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards maple. < 1298154842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was little and I hadn't been forced to conform with normal standards of non-disgustingness. < 1298154847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it'd be a nifty cream soda. < 1298154848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, good idea < 1298154849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, -_- < 1298154874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, just the idea of vinegar... < 1298154877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1298154880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...maple cream soda sounds nice. < 1298154898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PUT ICE CREAM IN IT < 1298154900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, vinegar not in some other food stuff sounds nasty < 1298154914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and even vinegar in other foodstuff is rather nasty IMO < 1298154920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still view salad as a carrier for vinegar, though. < 1298154933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, bacon & garlic soda < 1298154940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe not :P < 1298154946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, just garlic then < 1298154977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't like salad with vinegar. I prefer salad without vinegar < 1298154979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about liver and onions. < 1298154981 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND FISH! Wait, no.... < 1298154987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, liver, eww < 1298154994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, SICK BASTARD < 1298154998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Vinegar soda < 1298155004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? because I hate liver? < 1298155008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HEALTH HEALTH HEALTH LOOK HOW HEALTHY I AM < 1298155015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collected some egojoust statistics plots at http://zem.fi/~fis/egostats/ -- just the "global" ones, not per-participant or per-game ones -- and these are cranky results from a 5-programs-dropped hill, so the numbers might not make sense everywhere. (FFSPG gets a rather impressive 73.63 score here, at least partially due to the fact that careless, spookygoth and defend14, against which all it loses, aren't included.) < 1298155022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are you talking about < 1298155029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, liver just tastes horrible. < 1298155030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : VINEGAR IS ONLY A SINGLE OXIDATION REACTION AWAY FROM ALCOHOL I ABSTAIN FROM IT < 1298155030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh man it's so POLISHED. < 1298155041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It even has CSSSSS. (A few lines.) < 1298155041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote VINEGAR IS ONLY A SINGLE OXIDATION REACTION AWAY FROM ALCOHOL I ABSTAIN FROM IT < 1298155042 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) VINEGAR IS ONLY A SINGLE OXIDATION REACTION AWAY FROM ALCOHOL I ABSTAIN FROM IT < 1298155050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fake quote < 1298155052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 317 < 1298155053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that number is off < 1298155055 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298155055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See, diplomacy.) < 1298155061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298155062 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298155067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will add that quote back < 1298155070 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Vinegar soda // vinegar actually could be an ingredient in soda, you always need some acid. < 1298155073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: Vorpal does not understand that vinegar is in fact two oxidation reactions away from alcohol due to viewing chemistry as unhealthy. < 1298155085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... I never disliked vinegar because of that < 1298155089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I just hate the taste < 1298155103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you could in theory make DRUGS from the things you learn there. < 1298155104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and I don't remember how many oxidation states away it is < 1298155155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you seem to have a very wrong picture of me. I have nothing against drugs in general. There are ones without the horrible side effects of alcohol. < 1298155164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I do not plan to try them myself currently < 1298155169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly due to legal issues) < 1298155175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have nothing against them in principle < 1298155176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE HELL IS WITH MY CRAZY LATENCY RIGHT NOW? < 1298155187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from pikhq: 1.10 second(s) < 1298155192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1298155202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's absurd. < 1298155212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 1.10 seems quite decent for irc < 1298155232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seconds. < 1298155237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 317 < 1298155238 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298155240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good there < 1298155250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop being a shit. Srsly. < 1298155261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm just checking that you didn't remove it < 1298155262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1298155276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and if it had been about me you would have found that thing hilarious :P < 1298155278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has come to my attention that you are engaging in the activity known as "being a shit"; immediate cessation of this activity is recommended to avoid progression onto shitheadedness, which follows shitness. < 1298155301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should maybe listen to your own advise sometimes. < 1298155312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, + Ping reply from pikhq: 0.72 second(s) < 1298155319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, *advice < 1298155319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway this isn't to your irc server < 1298155324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, whops, indeed < 1298155334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this is from me. In Europe. < 1298155342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there are two forms, the one with 'c' is generally the noun and 's' the verb. < 1298155347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, across irc servers. Not even direct route < 1298155355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY HA HA LET ME BLAME MY ILLITERACY ON THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE < 1298155359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh. Didn't know that. Interesting. < 1298155365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, useful to know. Thanks. < 1298155382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, loads of native English speakers get that wrong. < 1298155399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, where did I blame it on that. < 1298155401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: < 1298155403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's why we need to deport all the immigrants back to Africa. < 1298155406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 317 < 1298155407 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298155411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why < 1298155414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM MAKING A STAND < 1298155419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two against one, isn't that, like, Democracy? < 1298155439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because it is amusing as the later series of The Simpsons. < 1298155445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it, a wolf and three sheep deciding what to have for dinner? I forget the quote. < 1298155466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I HATE PUERILE HUMOUR AND THEREFORE DISLIKE ALL SERIES OF THE SIMPSONS EQUALLY < 1298155478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SINCE YOU EVIDENTLY HOLD THE EARLY SEASONS IN HIGH-REGARD, I CONCLUDE THAT THE LATER ONES ARE HILARIOUS TO YOU < 1298155490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. I haven't got around to watching the series. So I can't make any statement about it < 1298155502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, yeah, but now my masterstroke: < 1298155521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Vorpal clearly thinks I have no sense of humour, /the quote cannot be funny/. < 1298155525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I believe it is you who are "being a shit" here. < 1298155538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... the best logic ever. < 1298155567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no, that logic fails. Because you are saying: < 1298155567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A→B < 1298155569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬A < 1298155575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not mean ¬B < 1298155581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, < 1298155587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, logical fallacy < 1298155610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ah, butbutbut: < 1298155672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes? < 1298155676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly if I think something *is* funny, it mustn't actually be funny, per the earlier definitions. < 1298155690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for < 1298155690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the < 1298155690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decision." < 1298155690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Benjamin Franklin < 1298155691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1298155694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically unless Vorpal shoots us... < 1298155714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both stone cold logic and Ben Franklin agree. < 1298155715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how does that follow? < 1298155724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because you are asserting you have humour < 1298155743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up.
< 1298155749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but you are asserting I don't. Which means, if true, that I would be unable to judge if something is funny at all. < 1298155770 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust kinda_boring [[]+] < 1298155771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You believe that PH has no sense of humour. < 1298155776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I don't < 1298155778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, if PH thinks something is amusing, you think it is not. < 1298155790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As has previously been demonstrated with the Simpsons logic, from your POV, PH thinks the quote is funny. < 1298155799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe PH has a sense of humour, though different < 1298155801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, the quote is not funny in your POV, and because your POV is the POV you are reasoning from, the quote is not funny. < 1298155815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions will be ignored as it has been demonstrated and explained with utmost precision, have a nice day. < 1298155819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for your statement to be true I would have to have some sort of anti-humour. And then you could just take absolute value of what I say and it would be hilarious < 1298155842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there is a lot of anti-humor flying around here right now < 1298155858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I conclude you are right < 1298155880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is still far too-high latency. < 1298155882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway anti-humour is just another form of humour < 1298155891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. i am an expert on all the four humors. < 1298155897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from Gregor: 0.55 second(s) < 1298155899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from pikhq: 1.62 second(s) < 1298155900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1298155919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which one is the fourth? < 1298155920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of magnitude too high. < 1298155945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _would_ depend on which are the first three, i believe. < 1298155945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, about 3 times too high? < 1298155952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BAH < 1298155958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? < 1298155967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU AND YOUR TRUTH < 1298155973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1298155985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, this is cross Atlantic and corss-IRC < 1298155995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 317 elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298155996 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) 317 elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298155997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1298155998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no doubt it would be less if I used ping(8) < 1298155999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 317 < 1298156004 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1298156004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Happy now? < 1298156007 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, interesting that you added it < 1298156024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The latency from the links themselves should add up to *maybe* 300ms. < 1298156049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you saw what I got to Gregor < 1298156062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't know who else in here is in US < 1298156081 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for iconmaster_kinda_boring: 4.6 < 1298156081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot? < 1298156085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298156085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298156095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no ping reply from it < 1298156132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh also I'm connected through ipv6 tunnel to freenode it seems < 1298156137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would also explain a lot < 1298156172 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow EgoBot took a long time today < 1298156174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, sorry, I lied, I deleted it in /msg. You can readd it, I don't care. < 1298156247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1298156254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? < 1298156286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i _thought_ elliott was trying to be diplomatic for once < 1298156295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1298156295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now, I don't care enough to bother. < 1298156301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, Vorpal re-added it in /msg too. < 1298156329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `quote 317 < 1298156337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 2 seconds after each other < 1298156340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was deleted < 1298156342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1298156346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you "don't care"? < 1298156358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1298156359 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1298156361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What? < 1298156365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a problem with the merging. < 1298156370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happens sometimes. < 1298156373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done nothing. < 1298156376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1298156380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you changed addquote binary < 1298156390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS THIS < 1298156390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/ac438abc7950 < 1298156391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR < 1298156394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very droll < 1298156394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU FORGED CHANGES BY ME < 1298156397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am *disgusted* < 1298156419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 5cf5145b0354 < 1298156427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 317 < 1298156428 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1298156432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 69 < 1298156433 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 317 < 1298156434 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dammit _i_ was thinking of changing the addquote binary < 1298156445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 1e4d36f50b3b < 1298156455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great thing about anarchy is that you can do whatever you want. Also, the only thing about anarchy. < 1298156462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 317 < 1298156463 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :317) elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P < 1298156477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 76 < 1298156478 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 69 < 1298156487 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 76 < 1298156491 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/egostats/plot_lenscore.png -- BIGGER == BETTER. < 1298156512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/addquote < 1298156512 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" = " elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P" ]; then \ echo $(wc -l quotes | cut -d' ' -f1 | dc -e '?1+p')") $1" \ else \ [ < 1298156522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, that's the old broken version. < 1298156530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 77 < 1298156532 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/addquote < 1298156537 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" = " elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't "again" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P" ]; then \ echo $(wc -l quotes | cut -d' ' -f1 | dc -e '?1+p')") $1" \ else \ [ < 1298156541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1298156549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not seem to want to go back to the proper version. < 1298156550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 75 < 1298156551 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1298156552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/addquote < 1298156555 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" = " elliott, hh:mm:ss statement hh:mm:ss question. hh:mm:ss+2 statement repeated [LATER:] elliott: Don't \"again\" me when I send something on the same second as you do :-P" ]; then \ echo $(($(wc -l quotes | cut -d' ' -f1)+1))") $1" \ else \ [ "$1" ] || < 1298156558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1298156583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it hard to chastise elliott when i was thinking about doing the exact same thing. < 1298156590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :} < 1298156597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved anyway < 1298156618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have bothered if the quote wasn't part of one of Vorpal's semi-regular "latch onto anything anyone says that could be in any way construed as anti-elliott and spam the channel with how right that is". < 1298156622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite an obsession. < 1298156656 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust bigger_does_not_mean_better (<)*10000(<)*10000 < 1298156668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would help if you stopped being, as you put it yourself I believe, "a shit" < 1298156745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES, SOME PROBLEMS HAVE TWO POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS AND THEREFORE NO ONE DOES EITHER OF THEM < 1298156785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love caps lock < 1298156787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's warm and comforting < 1298156796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i should use it some time < 1298156847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is codu.org down? < 1298156849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ^ < 1298156871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1298156886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1298156893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, slow as hell though < 1298156905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and hackego took ages to respond < 1298156906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly elliott inserted something that makes codu.org ignore Vorpal < 1298156908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is taking ages even < 1298156914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I doubt it < 1298156914 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for iconmaster_bigger_does_not_mean_better: 0.0 < 1298156948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1298156949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't. < 1298156965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, codu is buggedly slow atm. As you can see < 1298156987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : run sed '/elliott/d' -i quotesdefault tip < 1298156989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/rolleyes. < 1298156999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said you liked anarchy < 1298157002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298157005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm quotes; rm bin/*quote* < 1298157005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you got it < 1298157006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1298157006 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1298157042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was trying to point out the stupidity of your actions by demonstrating your behaviour :) < 1298157050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(parodied yes) < 1298157098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1298157126 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ill_assume_the_tape_is_ten_long (>)*10[+.] < 1298157128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Vorpal stirs up this kind of idiotic drama just to rile me up so that he can later use it as evidence of how immature I am. < 1298157154 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298157155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: You're assuming 11, not 10 < 1298157163 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1298157163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1298157170 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ill_assume_the_tape_is_ten_long (>)*9[+.] < 1298157180 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1298157202 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made silly little losing BFjoust programs for no real reason. < 1298157204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vorpal ok, you have 30 minutes to get the quote system back into its state _before_ this ridiculous quarrel started before i ban you _both_ < 1298157217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: The graph's "size" measure would count (<)*10000(<)*10000 as size "6", actually. < 1298157219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thank you for your bug report. It has been filed into /dev/null with all the others. < 1298157223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the quote system back if it's just going to cause ridiculous drama like this. < 1298157239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: dear Christ, can't I leave you people alone for 10 minutes? < 1298157240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, right. So you don't know what is causing it or? < 1298157256 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: E_DONTCARE < 1298157272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott: Vorpal: < 1298157272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm going to bed. Besides it was elliott who removed it. I'd revert the changes to the file though I made, but it seems it is no longer there. < 1298157279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, night! < 1298157294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Guh, who put an underscore into your errno constant? That's so uncommon. < 1298157297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwhat. < 1298157310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping is in section 8 of the manual pages. < 1298157311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not an errno constant, it's a bugzilla code. < 1298157377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm just checking back for a second < 1298157405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OK, why, exactly, did you need that quote there? < 1298157408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as I said, I would undo it. But I don't want to cause drama by reverting elliott's last change. That one to remove the quotes. < 1298157415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because I found it funny < 1298157429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, heard of "diplomacy"? < 1298157451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes, but elliott has not applied it either. < 1298157459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, THE ONUS IS ON YOU < 1298157483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't care to look up "onus" atm, so I'll ask you to rewrite that < 1298157489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He started it! No, he started it!" -- Vorpal learns the rules of the playground. < 1298157495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ADDED THE QUOTE. IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE IN THESE SITUATIONS TO UNDO THE DISPUTED CHANGE UNTIL A RESOLUTION IS REACHED. < 1298157511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT SURE I AM AS MUCH OF A FAN OF CAPSLOCK NOW < 1298157516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, standard practise where < 1298157529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I map the caps lock to control. < 1298157540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I map mine to cruise control. < 1298157560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I map it the same way < 1298157577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes typing in caps painful. < 1298157589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not that you do that often... < 1298157593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't at least < 1298157596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not a matter of the single quote any more. elliott removed the _entire_ quote system. < 1298157602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, I know. < 1298157606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The entire quote system that I wrote :P < 1298157615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not going to defend that; that was immature. < 1298157616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well that is *his* problem < 1298157623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be put back in one damn command. < 1298157626 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for iconmaster_ill_assume_the_tape_is_ten_long: 4.9 < 1298157626 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for iconmaster_ill_assume_the_tape_is_ten_long: 4.9 < 1298157628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not going to do it myself because Vorpal will start up again. < 1298157631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Vorpal is the one who has prolonged this when he was clearly in the wrong. < 1298157644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to leave it to someone else < 1298157668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "clearly"? < 1298157696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but you could easily do it yourself. I believe you want revision 53 < 1298157711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It can be put back in one damn command. <-- sure. but i don't know that command and cannot be bothered to learn it. < 1298157721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you added the quote, which was a childish jibe at elliott. When asked to remove it, you repeatedly re-added it. < 1298157727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you want `revert 53 < 1298157728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i made a decision. < 1298157737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that one being? < 1298157745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was defusing a ridiculous situation; I'll leave the rest up to Gregor as he's the only one with any vague kind of authority wrt HackEgo. < 1298157749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned that this is ridiculous? < 1298157765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I agree that it is ridiculous < 1298157809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the reverse happened in the past. And then I believe no one sided with the person wanting to remove it < 1298157846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, *noöne has sided with you here.* < 1298157853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm not suggesting that favouritism for elliott here... that would be far beyond me... < 1298157871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there is* < 1298157899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean here as in this specific case? Perhaps. < 1298157922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nasty favouritist. < 1298157924 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1298157924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not a majority has said their opinion yet. So we are, as to speak in the dark. < 1298157928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Favouritist: A WORD? Experts disagree.) < 1298157941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that is not the way it works. < 1298157941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298157958 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298157961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like "Did you mean: Favouritest" on googling "Favouritist". < 1298157973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not with all those idlers no < 1298158043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, _noöne except you thought that quote was funny._ < 1298158050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Both me and elliott reverted it._ < 1298158062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no one who voiced their opinion* < 1298158120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slams his head into the wall that is Vorpal.
< 1298158155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you could explain *why* that statement isn't true < 1298158165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal is *still* bitching? sheesh. I left the channel for five minutes. < 1298158177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's like explaining *why* 2+2 is 4. < 1298158181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm not. I'm just replying to Phantom_Hoover's lines now < 1298158187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know when he stops < 1298158191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298158212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible, but you assume that anyone you actually argue with will be able to see its obvious truth. < 1298158237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is because of how + is defined. We could define it in terms of incrementing < 1298158240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then explain it < 1298158268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, lets assume I'm no expert in whatever legal system you seem to be alluding to above in a few places < 1298158273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so you're honestly saying that you think that a minority overrides a majority if not everyone has voiced an opinion? < 1298158303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no... I'm saying we do not have a quorum < 1298158341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm waiting for your reply < 1298158382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you wanted the quote there. elliott and I both wanted it gone. You *defer to majority opinion*. < 1298158393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no quorum. < 1298158397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, please reply to that < 1298158403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At *least* until you have some mediation. < 1298158418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, FFS THIS IS NOT A BLOODY PARLIAMENT < 1298158429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS _BASIC_ HUMAN INTERACTION < 1298158463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, quorum can apply to non-parliament situations according to google define: < 1298158470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a gathering of the minimal number of members of an organization to conduct business" < 1298158482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs
< 1298158484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs
< 1298158485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs
< 1298158491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, though it may or may not apply here < 1298158519 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, please sum up briefly why, exactly, a quorum is necessary here. < 1298158523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has he stopped blabbing yet? < 1298158524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop. < 1298158527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...quorum? < 1298158530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to know. < 1298158531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1298158549 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-217.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it might not be. That is open to discussion. < 1298158558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, night → < 1298158581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1298158585 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain is under serious strain here. < 1298158632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my vote is that quote dbs exist in order to make people look bad. therefore, if it isn't funny, and it doesn't embarass someone, delete it. < 1298158645 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, i do not know what quote we are talking about < 1298158653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, also, do you have a QUORUM for demonstrating that you are asleep. < 1298158658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or going to sleep. < 1298158673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAINTAIN THAT HE IS IN FACT AWAKE < 1298158689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL CONCURRING VOICES < 1298158719 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has he stopped yet? < 1298158732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, DO YOU VOTE THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO SLEEP < 1298158739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that about quorums? Did Vorpal form a nomic to decide whether the quote stays or not? < 1298158742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE NEED A QUORUM < 1298158780 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that whole hh:mm:ss quote? it's pretty not funny. < 1298158789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1298158801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual, serious (well, as serious as this idiocy can get) point: if there's not enough votes to decide, you go back to the previous state of things. < 1298158810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It was just added as part of Vorpal's semi-regular latch-on-to-anything-not-vaguely-positive-about-elliott-and-reply-with-extreme-agreement-because-elliott-sucks. < 1298158815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even by Vorpal's insane argument, he's *still* in the wrong. < 1298158823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal goes on regular tirades of the sort for no apparent reason other than his being childish. < 1298158830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1298158832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least I have the excuse of age.) < 1298158843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now wait until that ping causes him to wake back up, run to his computer, and disagree. < 1298158847 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that is childish. there are better ways to make the point that you suck. < 1298158848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Rather obviously the correct thing to do here is to obtain a ruling from the #esoteric arbitration board as to what sort of quote approval processes are acceptable. < 1298158849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you are not helping. < 1298158864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't have the ASTONISHING MATURITY of my perspective on things. < 1298158867 0 :j_!62ea882a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.234.136.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this is beyond help. < 1298158884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j_: what did you do to k and l? < 1298158886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: possibly. < 1298158902 0 :j_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ain't ehird is it < 1298158904 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! Let's compromise. We'll keep the first half of the quote and delete the latter half. < 1298158915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j_: Erm... < 1298158916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, catalysts! I've read those can lower the channel temperature. < 1298158917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I know you? < 1298158931 0 :j_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jayCampbell < 1298158931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster, BETTER IDEA: < 1298158931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298158948 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298158948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take every other letter of the quote! < 1298158951 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster: why don't we delete every other character. that way there are no arguments about whether we left out the "good part" < 1298158952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This connection hates me < 1298158958 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to nomic < 1298158965 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ninja'd by PH < 1298158986 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phanom_Hoover: Good idea. Lemme get the quote. < 1298159002 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's another familiar name < 1298159043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298159052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1298159068 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298159147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1298159152 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quote is now: < 1298159155 0 :iconmaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saeetrpae LTR] I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1298159337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1298159339 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine \ quotes \ test \ test.c \ tmpdir.12609 < 1298159350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -1 quotes < 1298159352 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing. < 1298159358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK THEN < 1298159364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1298159401 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g224201253.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1298159402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`head bin/addquote < 1298159403 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ [ "$1" ] || exit 1 \ printf "%s\n" "$1" >>quotes \ echo $(wc -l quotes | cut -d' ' -f1)") $1" < 1298159425 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you like cat bowling? http://senorgif.memebase.com/ < 1298159433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cat...bowling < 1298159436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298159454 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298159492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott and Vorpal happened. < 1298159493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how would you describe a language without loops, that only runs data thru a large tree of logic gates < 1298159496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-TC. < 1298159509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it could definitely be interesting < 1298159518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is going to be non-TC unless you enclose the whole program in a loop or something like that < 1298159524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exact placement of blame being itself a part of the problem < 1298159527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, psht, we're #esotericers! < 1298159527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if it's just logic gates, that implies finite state so non-TC even if you do that) < 1298159539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-TC is UNINTERESTING < 1298159549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So Coq is uninteresting? < 1298159552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YES < 1298159558 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think non-TC is the MOST INTERESTING < 1298159568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I WAS IN FACT BEING SARCASTIC < 1298159573 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everybody and their brother is TC < 1298159578 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I RECOGNIZE THIS FACT < 1298159583 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANK YOU < 1298159585 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS NOT < 1298159587 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1298159593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, remember Madk? < 1298159599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaguely? < 1298159602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did he do again? < 1298159604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1010&t=18829 < 1298159618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, made a nuisance of himself on the wiki, < 1298159632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1298159640 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-tc is non-uninteresting if you have an infinitely large pile of virtual transistors < 1298159647 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1298159649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, there's no reason everything has to be TC < 1298159683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, I know. I may have expressed my irritation at people who think that good = TC before. < 1298159726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is your opinion of people who think that non-TC is good? < 1298159743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am one of them. < 1298159757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I love how that thread got derailed by people talking about random esolangs < 1298159774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERETICS < 1298159779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk censors "Brainfuck". < 1298159784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does impomatic :P < 1298159788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CamelCases it. < 1298159800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's inexcusable. < 1298159807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, but impomatic hasn't come up onto my hatedar. < 1298159812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ writing a tutorial for an esolang < 1298159837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents get annoyed at me not censoring "brainfuck" < 1298159916 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have designed most of the basic logic gates in minecraft using water instead of redstone < 1298159917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Haha, that's actually quite brilliant :)]] < 1298159940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jayCampbell, are they self-resetting? < 1298159946 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1298159947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Impossible :P < 1298159960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, it was a leading question. < 1298159962 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence my earlier questions < 1298159980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got a universal gate implemented? < 1298159982 0 :jayCampbell!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen languages in run-once environments but can't remember any < 1298159989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrAiNfuCk