00:00:04 * Phantom__Hoover → sleep 00:00:05 also who puts slipknot and evanescence on the same list :D what's their connection? 00:00:15 "electric guitar -> metal!" 00:00:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:00:50 and who puts eminem and justin bieber on the same list 00:00:53 what's their connection 00:01:07 well umm maybe i shouldn't analyze this further 00:01:11 They're both jokingly made fun of by some group 00:01:25 ? 00:01:33 can you elaborate 00:01:40 i'm referring to the thing i pasted 00:04:06 People hate Justin Bieber for no reason, and I'm sure people hate Eminem for no reason 00:04:11 YOU SAY C++, I SAY BRAINFUCK!!!!! YOU SAY JAVA, I SAY UNLAMBDA!! 6% OF PEOPLE HAVE TURNED TO PROGRAMMING, IF YOU ARE IN THE 0.03% SUBSET THAT USES REAL PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES, COPY AND PASTE THIS TO 5 OTHER PROGRAMMING CHANNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T LET THE SPIRIT OF ETC 00:04:11 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:04:17 -!- sshc has joined. 00:04:29 i would make a great retard 00:04:33 really i wouldn't have to change a thing 00:04:57 YOU SAY C++, I SAY BRAINFUCK!!!!! YOU SAY JAVA, I SAY UNLAMBDA!! 6% OF PEOPLE HAVE TURNED TO PROGRAMMING, IF YOU ARE IN THE 0.03% SUBSET THAT USES REAL PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES, COPY AND PASTE THIS TO 5 OTHER PROGRAMMING CHANNELS!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T LET THE SPIRIT OF ETC 00:05:16 j-invariant: what were the channels? 00:05:20 just this one 00:05:22 oh 00:05:28 darn, i wish elliott was here 00:05:36 i'm not 00:05:42 yeah, i know 00:05:48 "6% OF PEOPLE HAVE TURNED TO PROGRAMMING, IF YOU ARE IN THE 0.03% SUBSET THAT USES REAL PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES" 00:05:50 otherwise i would've said 00:05:53 yay, elliott is here 00:05:54 i think there's a /prog/ meme like that :} 00:06:00 or well, was 00:06:24 well it's kind of an obvious joke, so obvious that it took me quite a lot of effort to make myself write it. 00:06:38 oh 00:06:42 or in what sense? 00:06:53 i used to see that youtube comment like daily 00:07:10 wait Sgeo is still going to date ktat? 00:07:11 CAN YOU LOOK UP MEM 00:07:11 LOL 00:07:52 why wouldn't he date ktat? 00:08:08 oklopol: she believes vitamin c causes cancer, and that chemotherapy is essentially vitamin c 00:08:14 elliott, cures 00:08:17 oops 00:08:22 oklopol: (and is a cancer survivor herself, cured by chemotherapy, not vitamin c) 00:08:28 oh wait i forgot, they're the same thing 00:08:31 because radiation is a vitamin 00:09:01 I think [hope] she knows radiation isn't a vitamin 00:09:13 Sgeo: then how is chemotherapy vitamin c 00:09:22 elliott: everyone laughed at einstein when he told the world center of physics that the earth is actually the center of time but look what happened 00:09:31 oklopol: marry me 00:09:39 Chemotherapy != radiation 00:09:48 Sgeo: i am aware, how's chemotherapy vitamin c 00:10:04 She mentioned some documentary... 00:10:25 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:25 chemotherapy != radiation? i thought that was the essential part 00:10:27 yeah but you see the thing is chemotherapy has nothing to do with vitamin c 00:10:30 -!- sshc has joined. 00:10:30 just saying 00:10:37 kinda important fact 00:11:04 ALSO WHO CARES WHAT A GIRL THINKS AS LONG AS THERE'S PROSPECT OF SEX 00:11:32 that needed to be said i think 00:11:51 oklopol: but Sgeo has said he's not sure he'd like sex before! all he wants is opinions on vitamin c 00:11:54 and boy, these opinions are low-quality 00:12:15 i knew this guy who said he didn't like sex, masturbation was better 00:12:33 elliott, how do you have such a good memory? 00:12:38 oklopol, Mike?/ 00:12:47 Sgeo: because i remember things that are really strange, and you're fucking weird. 00:12:50 Sgeo: a guy i went to high school with 00:12:52 *that are strange 00:13:27 elliott: do you remember something i've said? 00:13:37 dog food 00:13:44 oh eating that 00:14:04 was it nice 00:14:05 i've certainly dabbled in dogging 00:14:15 eating doggy style 00:14:38 I am here now. I was away before sorry someone tried to call me 00:15:12 dunno if it's nice or bad, but it's certainly different from human food 00:15:24 zzo38: why don't you want a funeral 00:15:25 and i've only tried the dry stuff 00:15:28 there will be people with a serious fetish for behaving like a pet dog and eating dog food out of a bowl 00:15:46 http://sexylosers.com/053.html [NSFW NSFW NSFW] 00:15:49 I want to funeral for me and no bury me. The funeral and these things is cost money and I do not like it. 00:15:50 wouldn't be surprising if it's called dogging too 00:16:17 ^^relevant to what oklopol said about that guy 00:16:26 You can make my body to use, such as making wig by the hair, making writing by the blood (perhaps some lie about how I died?), and the rest of the body for eating?? 00:16:41 zzo38: how about sex? 00:16:45 if eating is okay 00:17:09 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:17:13 oklopol: No sex. (Of course I am dead and I will therefore not stop you, but surely sex of the dead is doesn't even make sense??) 00:17:14 -!- sshc has joined. 00:17:20 Necrophilia is real. 00:17:29 It happens :P 00:17:52 necrophilia with a man would obviously have the dead guy as a bottom 00:18:07 at least i assume so 00:18:09 lol 00:18:13 "well come on then" 00:18:15 "I'M WAITING" 00:18:21 i don't know since i'm a completely straight necrophiliac 00:18:24 I would assume it goes all ways 00:18:58 gay necro is just weeeeird 00:19:06 The more time you waste with sex from dead, the body will be rotten and then it will be no good for anything whatsoever (except, perhaps, source of carbon). 00:19:06 just... always assume some people are weirder than you thought possible 00:19:34 i mean come on, who wants to see two guys kiss each other and one is dead, two girls (one being dead), sure, everyone likes that but two guys.. (and one is dead) that's just sick 00:19:55 never leave us oklopol 00:20:03 necrophilic cannibals finish quick so they can have fresher meat 00:20:07 You have to eat right away while it is still on the line of live and dead. But you also have to pull your hair, not only so you can see who is strong enough to pull the hair, but also so that you can make wig. 00:20:12 zzo38: it will have been good for the sex, at least you can have sex multiple times, you can only eat a body once 00:20:20 although i guess you'll get a lot of meat from one body 00:20:32 oklopol: But you cannot make proper sex with the dead! 00:20:47 You can if they're still warm! 00:20:54 zzo38: why? 00:20:59 (Of course, it is possible to be bald when dead, and then you will have no hair to pull) 00:21:13 meat should be cured for better taste though, I would assume this goes for humans too 00:21:48 olsner: No! I disallowed you to sell human meats in the store! 00:22:18 heh, are you drunk? 00:22:25 why couldn't you have sex with someone who's dead, zzo38? 00:22:29 No. Are you drunk? 00:22:38 Nope. 00:22:38 why couldn't you have sex with someone who's dead, zzo38? 00:22:39 do you just mean because it's gross, or like some physical reason 00:22:47 oklopol: Because it is not proper sex. 00:23:06 I wouldn't expect it to work so well or proper. 00:23:08 what about sex with someone who's unconscious? 00:23:20 zzo38: how is it not proper? 00:23:20 oklopol: yuck! that's just weird 00:23:35 oklopol: In that case, they are still live, and they didn't tell you consent, so you should not do that either. 00:23:43 (But for different reason) 00:23:45 erm 00:24:04 you can consent to unconscious sex just as you can for post-mortem sex 00:24:08 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:24:14 -!- sshc has joined. 00:24:21 how do you know they "didn't tell you consent"? and we're not talking about whether you should do it, but whether it'd be proper sex 00:24:35 olsner: well except that you're going to wake up if you're unconscious... and are also still a sentient being 00:24:35 olsner: i think legally you can't consent to post-mortem sex 00:24:40 Is it possible to write a note from blood of the recently deceased, about how they died? 00:24:44 but legally, you can consent to unconscious sex, prolly 00:24:49 olsner: so post-mortem is a bit different 00:24:55 zzo38: "I died getting the blood to write this note" 00:24:58 oklopol: Well, I guess if they told you consent ahead of time for unconscious sex, it is different. 00:25:04 zzo38: so why can sex with a dead person not be proper? 00:25:33 zzo38: we don't care about the consent part... or is sex somehow different depending on whether it's immoral or not? 00:25:34 elliott: Because sex must involve two people and their body of sex is not function properly once dead, therefore it is improper. 00:25:44 oh 00:25:48 improper as in "wrong"? 00:25:49 zzo38: how does it not function properly, like, how does that stop sex being proper? 00:25:50 or what 00:25:59 not sure about the legalities, of course, but if someone decides their burial should involve sex shouldn't that be exactly like deciding you want to be cremated? 00:26:03 zzo38: as in -- what parts of the body are (1) required for sex to be proper and (2) not functioning past death? 00:26:23 olsner: ashes to ashes... dust to dust... genitalia to genitalia... 00:26:24 elliott: I don't know, I am not a doctor. Nor do I know about sex. Maybe you should ask a sex doctor. 00:26:35 olsner: unless it's just plain illegal to fuck a dead body 00:26:35 zzo38: then i don't see how you can say post-mortem sex is not proper 00:26:43 well 00:26:57 elliott: Of course I can say whatever I want, it doesn't make it necessarily true! 00:26:57 i suppose this gets a bit fine-grained, maybe you can still make the contract legally or something 00:27:04 zzo38: well that's a bit silly 00:27:13 oklopol: you can't make a contract saying someone can murder you 00:27:14 I think burning a dead body is illegal too, except when part of the procedures 00:27:16 i think it's probably similar 00:27:39 i imagine most necrophiliacs wouldn't actually fuck a dead guy 00:27:41 for, you know, safety reasons 00:27:43 what if you hump the body so fast the friction creates spontaneous combustion 00:27:50 does that count as cremation 00:28:04 wouldn't that also cause self-immolation? 00:28:06 elliott: fucking a fresh body doesn't sound very dangerous tho 00:28:16 not if you're wearing an asbestos condom 00:28:26 and besides, we're not even debating that aspect really :D 00:28:27 oklopol: well it'd be a bit cold still 00:28:38 muscles frozen up and stuff 00:28:49 i dunno it still sounds unsanitary :D 00:29:00 not really 00:29:15 asses are full of shit and still we stick our dicks in them without protection 00:29:28 Food Matters 00:29:34 That's the name of the bullshit that she saw 00:30:23 also i think the coldness would just be really hot if your fantasy is to fuck a dead body 00:30:50 i've tried a cold fleshlight for instance and that works fine 00:31:07 You probably will not die by writing a note from your own blood if it is one small part. But if you played mahjong with blood and your opponent won everything and they must remove all of your blood from one small hole in your arm (which is sterilized too), then it is different. 00:31:10 not for that purpose tho :D 00:31:25 oklopol: chilled with ice? 00:31:26 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:29 zzo38: you say weird things 00:31:32 -!- sshc has joined. 00:31:35 oklopol: also, sane people don't stick their dicks in asses without protection :P 00:31:39 elliott: a dead body would be room temperature, wouldn't it 00:32:01 Sgeo: doesn't even have a wp page 00:32:02 with time, a dead body will approach ambient temperature 00:32:03 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1528734/ 00:32:05 not in uncharted asses, no 00:32:10 but asses in general 00:32:32 You probably will not die by writing a note from your own blood if it is one small part. But if you played mahjong with blood and your opponent won everything and they must remove all of your blood from one small hole in your arm (which is sterilized too), then it is different. 00:32:33 what :D 00:32:38 http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1TSND_enUS401US401&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Food+Matters%22 00:32:57 elliott: Can you play mahjong? Can you read Akagi manga book? 00:33:07 -!- cheater00 has joined. 00:33:08 no. it is physically impossible for me to read Akagi 00:33:10 i would combust. 00:33:27 and the probabilities of catching std's are highly overestimated to scare young ppl into being safer, i've had unprotected sex with non-regular gf at least 4 times and i've caught only one std 00:33:28 elliott: Why would you? 00:33:32 magic 00:33:33 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:33:33 what if he/she dies during the act? that wouldn't be so unsanitary. i mean it's not like 50 milliseconds after death the corpse becomes a juicy tender sack of disease, riddled with bugs. it's not an old apple that's been in tupperware on the back of your car in the sun for too long 00:33:43 oklopol: i have no words :D 00:33:49 These books are real books they are not magic. 00:34:02 19:36 < oklopol> and the probabilities of catching std's are highly overestimated to scare young ppl into being safer, i've had unprotected sex with non-regular gf at least 4 times and i've caught only one std 00:34:04 Holy fuck 00:34:06 this is not reassuring 00:34:09 Just saw the trailer 00:34:14 I have *all* of the Akagi books, including the special edition. 00:34:17 coppro: it was a joke 00:34:22 unless you missed that 00:34:30 But the series is still on-going. 00:34:30 wow 0.999... = 1 discussion in #haskell 00:34:31 lame 00:34:35 oklopol: but i already quoted it to everyone... 00:34:36 (it's true, sure) 00:34:43 (but it was a joke) 00:34:57 j-invariant: TROLL TIME 00:35:06 oklopol: IS IT TRUE OR NOT 00:35:24 yes 00:35:30 i've caught an std 00:35:57 i think. it was kinda unclear, they told me i MUST HAVE CAUGHT IT, and that they'd call me when it's confirmed, gave me the treatment and sent me away 00:36:01 but didn't call me 00:36:17 so i suppose i didn't have it, or i had such a strong strain that they figured i'll just die anyway 00:37:41 or i suppose it's more likely that they were actually never going to call in the first place and i just misunderstood 00:37:44 i never listen to ppl 00:38:12 zzo38: here? 00:38:25 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:38:26 Even in D&D game, my character had blue blood so I cut myself to use it to cover a potion to disguise its colors, so someone else doesn't know what color it is. 00:38:30 -!- sshc has joined. 00:38:31 oklopol: here? 00:38:37 i'm here! 00:38:41 but are you here? 00:38:47 oklopol: Yes. 00:38:50 okay 00:38:52 oklopol: they took a sample of your blood but there were no blood cells in there, only cancer cells infested by HIV 00:38:59 zzo38: Are you not here? 00:39:07 zzo38: you unignored cheater00 right? 00:39:10 elliott: I am not in your house. 00:39:18 oklopol: Yes I did. 00:39:19 zzo38: Are you not not here? 00:39:27 zzo38: :D 00:39:32 elliott: Not not where, to be specific? 00:39:39 zzo38: Not not there. 00:40:08 cheater00: i've decided my body is naturally resistant to all forms of cancer 00:40:25 (I only ignored cheater00 for a short time, and even if I did not remove the ignore it is not persistent across sessions unless I put it in the init file for the IRC client) 00:40:28 oklopol: you're an Oklopol Realdoll 00:40:29 because people are all gay about how dangerous it is, i've decided to take the higher road 00:40:52 oklopol: aka mr. floppy 00:41:02 or how-ever-the-hell-you-call-it 00:41:05 elliott: now they're using inconsistent theories 00:41:10 elliott: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED 00:41:21 j-invariant: the 0.999 vs 1 thing? 00:41:29 brb, need to say bye to my friends who're off on a trip 00:41:30 bbs 00:42:02 yeah say bye to your friend's whore 00:42:56 can someone copy and paste the interesting bits of the convo somewhee 00:42:57 *where 00:43:01 j-invariant: cale doesn't believe in an objective universe 00:43:10 is Cale the one who's being stupid? 00:43:18 i thought he's like the smartest guy on ever 00:43:31 no he isn't being stupid apart from that 00:43:47 elliott: Well I am not sure what it means, I'm interested 00:44:01 Which IRC clients do and do not persist ignores (and/or other things) across sessions? 00:44:13 xchat persists it 00:44:48 elliott: Does xchat have a init file? 00:44:51 i don't know what a session is 00:44:56 sounds like a pretty useless concept 00:44:57 no 00:45:00 oklopol: indeed 00:45:27 oklopol: What I mean by a session is when the program is loaded and then closed. Next time you run the program is the next session, memory from the previous session is gone. 00:45:33 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:45:39 -!- sshc has joined. 00:45:53 oh alright 00:46:11 oklopol: Call it something else if you want to. 00:46:35 no sensible program ever had that concept, when you close a program and reopen it, obviously you start in the same state 00:47:03 oklopol: No, many program do not start automatically from where you left off. 00:47:18 zzo38: they are retarded programs and can be ignored for the purposes of this argument 00:47:33 studying the empty set is much easier and purer 00:47:38 oklopol: in @, it's impossible to write a program that obeys differently when you close it! 00:47:39 well 00:47:40 (TeX will save state if you use \dump otherwise it will not do so) 00:47:43 you could hook into disk save/disk load 00:47:50 but that doesn't correspond to start/stop using necessarily at all 00:49:00 the only way a program can tell it has been closed and reopened is that the system clock suddenly jumps 00:49:22 why would someone associate with this event the emptying of all state 00:49:47 oklopol: I suppose if that is the way, you can make it if you do not want to save state, instead delete it when you close and create a new copy with a nwe session ID and everything when you start back up. 00:50:08 The program does not need to be able to tell when it has been closed or not, because you can set state by user setting instead of by program setting. 00:50:21 let me try to work my way through what you just said 00:50:24 It would also be useful to have multiple sessions, sometimes, such as working on multiple things. 00:50:31 oklopol all mobs are invisible for me how amazing is that 00:50:42 "delete it when you close" 00:51:09 elliott: that's the way it should be, even scarier than as is 00:51:47 oklopol: :D 00:52:05 What I mean is delete the copy of the session, and then you can create a new session from the copy of the initial program. 00:52:41 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:52:49 " It would also be useful to have multiple sessions, sometimes, such as working on multiple things." <<< that is actually very true 00:53:02 but i'm not sure starting and closing programs is the way to do that 00:53:22 Which is why the session should be separate from the program itself, even if sessions are allowed to persist. 00:53:32 elliott: why are they invisible? 00:53:38 zzo38: yeah 00:53:57 oklopol: some bug 00:54:08 elliott: that actually sounds so scary 00:54:20 you'd just occasionally hear the sound of something 00:54:31 And then, perhaps, allow you to copy a session. 00:54:36 oklopol: i'm muted 00:54:36 and oh god, where is it 00:54:43 oklopol: so actually, i just started losing damage 00:54:44 and being pushed 00:54:48 and tried to run away but couldnt 00:54:49 *couldn't 00:54:50 :D 00:54:52 because i didn't know where it was 00:54:53 that's so cool 00:54:54 and it killed me 00:55:00 haha 00:55:02 ghosts 00:55:17 oklopol: it should play monster sounds completely uncorrelated with actual monsters 00:55:18 there should be a game based on that 00:55:26 hear a spider, nothing's there, but you walk a bit, and there's a zombie, totally silent, start losing health 00:55:30 fight it like a spider 00:55:31 die horribly 00:55:48 I have some games with some things invisible. 00:56:03 Including I modified the ROM for Super Mario game to make Mario to be invisible, too. 00:56:04 what kind of games? 00:56:16 mario being invisible would be just annoying 00:56:23 And also one pinball game with the ball is invisible. 00:56:23 as would mario enemies being invisible 00:56:23 everything should be invisible 00:56:26 apart from terrain 00:56:27 third-person 00:56:33 zzo38: also that sounds just annoying :D 00:56:36 scrolling pseudorandomly triggered so you can't deduce your position from it 00:56:43 all items, enemies, yourself, etc. are invisible and inaudible 00:56:52 that's just a game of luck isn't it 00:56:55 that pong 00:56:56 And there is invisible tetris (it is a mode in Lockjaw). 00:56:59 erm pinball 00:57:08 well in pinball you already whack the flippers madly constantly anyway 00:57:14 invisible tetris xD 00:57:14 oklopol: Pinball is not just a game of luck, invisible or not; flippers or not. 00:57:15 worst game ever 00:57:19 zzo38: yes it is 00:57:26 it's a game of 00:57:33 (1) pressing flippers when you see the ball (a monkey could do this) 00:57:33 and 00:57:34 elliott: I do not whack the flippers madly. 00:57:38 (2) hoping it doesn't go straight in the middle 00:57:42 which it does, constantly 00:57:43 and that's it 00:57:47 elliott: No, it isn't. You also bump the table. 00:57:50 i should make a game that's like totally awesome, with contemporary 3d graphics, but everything is actually rendered as a black screen without sound 00:57:51 useless 00:57:53 Especially if it is flipperless game. 00:57:54 unless it completely stops 00:57:56 in which case bump it once 00:58:01 oklopol: xD 00:58:02 I prefer flipperless pinball game. 00:58:25 so uh 00:58:27 one control? 00:58:29 no game with one control can be good 00:58:31 pretty much 00:58:32 you need two 00:58:33 exactly two 00:58:38 or infinite 00:58:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:58:39 just like when we were making this one game which never came to be, we decided to make this big elaborate secret area that you *actually can't access in any way* 00:58:51 elliott: Well, you have multiple controls. You can bump it in many different directions, and you can control the plunger. 00:58:59 oklopol: stfu 00:59:03 oklopol: what game 00:59:07 * cheater00 blends oklopol 00:59:08 elliott: ulimon! 00:59:13 :D 00:59:15 oklopol: also, there was one of those in some nintendo or something game 00:59:16 :DD 00:59:19 oklopol: contest winner got a special room 00:59:27 oklopol: except that it was only in the american version 00:59:28 pokemon but with ulis... although it didn't have much to do with pokemon 00:59:32 oklopol: and the american localisers removed the door 00:59:36 so it was impossible to get to 00:59:42 lol 00:59:50 oh hey elliott 00:59:56 have you ever read up on hyperreal numberz 00:59:59 In a real flipperless pinball game (without computer), you can bump in any direction you want and with different amounts of force. 01:00:18 pinball is rubbish 01:00:24 oklopol: so how goes oklocraft 01:00:30 elliott: guess! 01:00:36 oklopol: almost developed? 01:00:42 elliott: Probably because you do not understand the strategy for playing the game. 01:00:50 there is a strategy? 01:01:00 oklopol: For pinball game, yes. 01:01:03 zzo38: no, no, you see, my opinion is that it's rubbish 01:01:08 after a few bumps, the movement of the ball is random 01:01:26 and it usually bumps like 30 times before falling 01:01:48 oklopol: Timing is important. You cannot just bump it at randomly, you will almost certainly lose that way. 01:02:01 if the flippers extended to the middle 01:02:04 anyone could beat the world record for pinball 01:02:09 in some pinballs there's some sort of plot like you have to hit a certain thing and then another thing etc, so you have aim those couple of first bumps right 01:02:09 easily 01:02:26 except not because the ball could still fall between flippers in an unlucky situation! 01:02:32 You also have to pay attention to all of the lights and everything, and order of targets if it is important, the velocity of the ball, and more. 01:02:35 and then someone who's extremely unlucky will always keep on doing that 01:02:46 zzo38: you call aiming the first bump of the ball to be somewhere that gives a high amount of points "strategy"? 01:03:02 cheater00: What is the elasticity of the flippers? 01:03:12 oklopol: No, that is only a small part of the game. 01:03:21 You have to think about the entire game which is a lot more than just that. 01:03:48 but you do realize when you hit the ball, it hits the first couple things as you like, and then it just jumps around randomly 01:03:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 01:03:49 The elasticity of the various objects in the table is very important. 01:04:05 unless you make very precise hits that come back right away, is that the way pros play it? 01:04:08 zzo38: speaking of elasticity.. i should play some gish 01:04:12 gish! 01:04:14 <4 01:04:20 hahah 01:04:25 have you been playing it again? 01:04:29 oklopol: Yes it does do that sometimes, which is why you have to make precision and timing, and to think of how to recover from some things. 01:04:31 yeah no pinball is boring and unstrategic 01:04:35 not in ages 01:04:45 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 01:04:51 "yes it does do that sometimes" 01:04:52 do what? 01:05:23 oklopol: Moves in the different way than expected. 01:05:29 whenever you let the ball jump more then 2 times, you certainly can't predict *at all* what it's going to do 01:05:49 That is what makes pinball a good game, you can do like that. 01:05:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:05:54 oklopol: you can in (good) real pinballs 01:06:13 not like the pinball that came with windows nt 4 01:06:14 i find that hard to believe 01:06:24 in start > programs > accessories 01:06:25 :D 01:06:31 but okay maybe like 4 01:06:31 oklopol: Which is why you might attempt to hit certain targets in order to turn on and off lights in order to improve the advantage that you might get with the ball moving different way. 01:07:19 zzo38: as long as you really play the game in such a way that the ball returns down at least say every 3 bumps, i believe you're actually controlling the game. 01:07:34 and not just being good at catching the drops that almost go in the middle 01:07:53 well i don't *believe* that, but at least it could theoretically be possible 01:08:15 I play a pinball game called "JiggleBox". There are bumpers and drop targets and rollover targets with lights and stuff, but near the bottom, the ball can reenter the launch area, and then there is some holes, labeled "50", "100", "0", and "game over". 01:08:53 If you get the ball in a hole you get that many points and you lose the current ball (you get nine balls per game). If you get the ball in the hole labeled "game over", the game ends immediately, you lose all of your balls to play. 01:10:05 So when the ball is up high you try generally to hit targets and lights and points, and try not to make it too fast into the lower area; when it is in the lower area, try to recover so that the ball will touch the launch area, or the "100" hole, at least. 01:10:26 when the ball is high, you can control its movement? 01:10:56 oklopol: By hitting the table so that the ball deflects off of bumpers and pins and walls and drop targets in various ways. 01:11:18 fizzie: Apparently you spawn in a random location of the first chunk in SMP. (reddit hearsay.) 01:11:21 what does hitting do? 01:12:02 i never used that because in all the pinballs i've played, it's just a small random move that is not really good for anything 01:12:02 oklopol: When you hit the table it gives force to the table in the direction you hit it, moving everything in one way for a short time. 01:12:21 does the ball's trajectory change? 01:12:46 or can you just make the ball touch an object if it was already going near it 01:13:40 oklopol: It can, a little bit, depending on friction and stuff. But usually you just make the ball touch an object that it is near, in a certain way, to increase or reduce the force with which the ball touches that object. 01:13:43 if the trajectory doesn't change, that's just silly optimization 01:14:02 oklopol: i think it's to make it bounce harder 01:14:12 And of course the force is a vector quantity, which is also important. 01:14:25 well in that case the trajectory certainly does change 01:14:37 zzo38: what? 01:14:53 anyway you're not really convinving me at all 01:14:54 elliott: Yes, to make it bounce harder or in a different direction. (Or, sometimes less hard) 01:15:07 yeah these are not good arguments 01:15:30 you're not really telling me anything i didn't know 01:15:48 well, i suppose it's hard to prove something that's not true 01:15:51 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 01:16:03 Pinball is all based on physics. 01:16:16 what 01:16:22 so is solitaire 01:16:25 you put the cards on top of each other 01:16:28 that's physcs 01:16:29 *physics 01:16:33 elliott: No, that doesn't count. 01:16:39 also chess, how do you think those pieces stay on the board 01:16:41 FRICTION bitches 01:16:59 zzo38: it's based on physics, point is there's so little control the movement of the ball is essentially random 01:17:09 elliott: Of course the games work because of physics, but chess is not a game of physics. 01:17:57 oklopol: It isn't. I know because I play pinball a lot and the control you have can improve the game a lot, even though there are many random movements of the ball. 01:18:32 i can't seem to find youtube vids of people being good a pinball 01:18:36 might convince me a bit 01:19:11 -!- azaq23 has left (?). 01:19:37 See a picture of the pinball game http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/jigglebox.png 01:20:01 i don't like pinball, it's bad 01:20:06 i agree with oklopol 01:20:08 give us youtube videos 01:20:10 of good pinballing 01:21:30 Hmm 01:21:55 I think she might not think that chemo is literally vit. C, just that it has the same effect as far as destroying cancer is conc.. wait, no 01:22:08 i assume people can become really awesome in these games, but i still think 1) it's mostly about very rough estimates of how to stay safe, and never failing when it's possible to catch the ball 2) a casual player will never reach anything above randomness 01:23:02 oklopol: You are probably correct 01:23:47 hey oklopol you're good at x86-64 asm right 01:23:49 also, it's possible the pro way is indeed to either 1) actually control the ball by hitting 2) make short between-control runs by hitting in places so that the ball just falls back 01:24:02 Sgeo: wait no why 01:24:03 elliott: i've read a book about it, i don't remember any of the actual operations though 01:24:05 *why "wait no" 01:24:06 :D 01:24:10 oklopol: right, so you get to write @'s kernel 01:24:32 if either of 1 or 2 is used, i believe the game can become non-random 01:24:39 I asked her how there could be different types of chemo, and she said different doses 01:25:12 oklopol: You can also use a combination of those techniques. 01:25:13 isn't chemo = injecting some shit for fun + radiation 01:26:30 zzo38: so like, do you actually decide "okay, i'm going to hit that target, and then let the ball go to that other target there, then come back", or do you go "okay ima hit there", and then when it hits those two targets you go like yay i hit exactly what i wanted! 01:26:42 i do the latter 01:26:51 and i've played a lot of pinball 01:27:17 of course, only the windows pinball, so maybe there is essential difference in amount of control, but anyway. 01:27:42 in windows pinball, you always choose like a mission by hitting these targets 01:27:50 oklopol: It is selected based on a few factors, such as the current velocity of the ball and the probability of certain things working. 01:27:52 and then based on that mission, you have to hit certain kinds of targets 01:28:21 and that was all very random 01:28:43 like "put numbers in this prng and try to get 3452 to appear in the first 30 digits!" random 01:28:44 zzo38: so can you give us a youtube thing 01:28:57 elliott: I have no YouTube things. 01:29:12 well get one, to show us pinball 01:29:23 like "put numbers in this prng and try to get 3452 to appear in the first 30 digits!" random 01:29:25 i would play that 01:29:27 if there are no youtube videos of pinballing, then it's pretty obvious no one has ever become good at pinball 01:29:56 there's a video where this guy picks a whole glass of snot from his nose in one minute 01:30:04 so pinball shouldn't really be excluded 01:30:09 that was a lie 01:30:16 -!- TLUL has joined. 01:30:19 thanks i can taste snot now 01:30:36 once me and a friend tested whether you can drink coke through your nose and i drink a whole glass 01:30:46 *drank 01:30:47 oklopol: I have played the Windows pinball. The up arrow is a dumb key for forward bump, so you can change it to spacebar (and set the plunger key to enter). But if you hold down the bump key for more than a small fraction of a second it goes on tilt, so release the keys very quickly after pushing them. 01:31:05 yeah tilt is kinda stupid 01:31:36 either make hitting an essential part of the game mechanics and make like a bar that shows how much you have left to use or something, or just leave it out... 01:31:56 Tilt penalty is found less often on flipperless games than on flippered games. 01:32:12 ? 01:32:18 well right, because it's copied from irl machines 01:32:29 Hitting *is* an essential part of the game. 01:32:46 but the penalty is done completely wrong 01:32:46 oklopol: did it burn your nose 01:32:52 Many flipperless games do not detect tilt. 01:33:06 it's copied from irl games where the system WAS MADE SO THAT NO ONE COULD HIT THE BOARD EVER 01:33:13 i don't get the tilt penalty, yeah 01:33:13 it's like 01:33:15 STOP THAT 01:33:18 in real life does it beep 01:33:19 and punch you 01:33:21 if you tilt it too hard 01:34:12 elliott: It won't punch you, but some games will reboot if you tilt it too hard. 01:35:02 i suppose the point of tilt penalty is exactly that hitting makes the game less random, and you generally want your games to be random if people are paying to play them 01:35:11 because otherwise good players can play longer 01:35:16 and you want everyone to play for a short time 01:37:35 but yeah, why not take hitting - a misfeature provided by reality in the irl pinballs - and then also add tilt penalty - a misfeature provided by the fact games are not actually made to be interesting, but to make money - to your computer game 01:37:48 what the fuck is wrong with these people 01:38:11 i don't really care 01:43:58 -!- drakhan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:44:28 Do you know if you will be able to help to write user-documentation/tutorials for TeXnicard? 01:49:47 i know *i* can't, if that helps! 01:49:49 elliott: no 01:49:57 it was just weird 01:50:04 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 01:50:13 and i fell on some crap earlier today and now my pants are all smelly 01:50:17 oklopol: no what 01:50:31 elliott: well you know that question you once asked 01:50:41 oklopol: You can't? Do you know why you can't? 01:50:47 oklopol: oh the dog food right 01:50:53 elliott: no 01:51:00 elliott: one of the other ones 01:51:01 then what 01:51:07 hmm 01:51:07 which 01:51:12 hey pikhq 01:51:13 let me copy it for you 01:51:21 since you seem to be a bit short on the brain today. 01:51:21 *Main> eval (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> x))) 01:51:21 eval (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> v0)))) 01:51:45 " oklopol: did it burn your nose" 01:51:48 oh 01:51:58 coke burns my nose 01:52:12 did you try 01:52:20 no, but i've had it come out of my nose 01:52:21 that burns 01:52:26 j-invariant: i wrote the most lovely lambda calculus in haskell just now 01:52:32 realy 01:52:38 WAT 01:52:43 01:54 < elliott> *Main> eval (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> x))) 01:52:43 01:54 < elliott> eval (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> v0)))) 01:52:46 fail 01:52:53 j-invariant: howso 01:52:55 alpha evaluation LOL 01:52:59 j-invariant: nope 01:53:00 not how it works 01:53:00 im just being silly 01:53:02 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:53:20 j-invariant: i based it on http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fplunch/weblog/?p=95 which you've probably seen 01:53:23 seems to be down 01:53:24 cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joFRT78UzLkJ:sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fplunch/weblog/%3Fp%3D95+http://sneezy.cs.nott.ac.uk/fplunch/weblog/%3Fp%3D95&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk 01:53:33 j-invariant: but, i used HOAS instead of de bruijn 01:53:43 j-invariant: and now the evaluator and the quoter are crazy bidirectional! 01:54:03 j-invariant: http://sprunge.us/ZEeS 01:54:16 j-invariant: obviously if you just want an evaluator, you can ditch Var, SVar, showSyn and the Show instances 01:54:18 cool 01:54:19 and even nf 01:54:30 which makes it literally just... 7 lines 01:54:35 (i counted) 01:54:42 data Syn = Lam (Syn -> Syn) | App Syn Syn 01:54:42 I think I found what report DVItype is part of (which is why it starts on page 402 instead of page 1), it is TeXware, it is listed in the bibliography for TeX. But there is no ISBN? 01:54:45 data Sem = Sem (Sem -> Sem) 01:54:46 -!- variable has joined. 01:54:48 eval :: Syn -> Sem 01:54:53 eval (Lam f) = Sem (\x -> eval (f (quote x))) 01:54:55 eval (App f x) = f' (eval x) where Sem f' = eval f 01:54:59 quote :: Sem -> Syn 01:54:59 quote (Sem f) = Lam (\x -> quote (f (eval x))) 01:55:01 j-invariant: that's all you need 01:55:10 hey those functions are eval . f . quote 01:55:12 and quote . f . eval :DD 01:55:17 very nice 01:56:03 *Main> nf (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> Lam (\z -> App (App x y) z)))) 01:56:03 (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> (Lam (\v2 -> *** Exception: /home/elliott/Code/lc/second.hs:9:35-49: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern Main.Sem f' 01:56:04 oops 01:56:06 i'll fix that 01:56:10 but it'll get uglier 01:56:37 i don't understand http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/jigglebox.png 01:56:41 /home/elliott/Code/lc/second.hs:9:35-49: Irrefutable pattern failed 01:56:41 where are the flippers floppers 01:56:44 for pattern Main.Sem f' 01:56:47 j-invariant: yeah 01:56:48 DONT USE TYPES HE SAID, IT WILL BE OKAY HE SAID. 01:56:52 :DD 01:56:53 oklopol: That is a flipperless game, there are no flippers. 01:57:03 j-invariant: basically the problem is, (App (SVar i) ...) doesn't work 01:57:07 :P 01:57:08 and i'm not sure how to fix that without it being horrible 01:57:12 any ideas? 01:57:15 zzo38: oh? just hitting or? 01:57:32 or no control at all? :D 01:57:35 that'd be cool 01:57:40 oklopol: Yes, just hitting. (Actually there is one more thing you can control -- the launch strength.) 01:58:08 The computer allows hitting in five directions. 01:58:09 so... that's fortuna, not pinball? 01:58:22 What is fortuna? 01:58:23 even more pointless a game 01:59:18 my internet is not flowing so i can't check if the name is international or just the name of a particular type of that game no one knows outside my apartment 01:59:19 JiggleBox is a pinball game, just without flippers. If you are good at it you might be able to hit all of the drop targets twice per game. 01:59:47 erm, pinball games last for like 15 minutes before ball drops out.. 02:00:02 it's mostly a game of stamina... 02:00:05 j-invariant: oh i know... 02:00:14 j-invariant: if i just implement an evaluator that works on pure Syn it would work :D 02:00:15 uglyyy 02:00:22 oklopol: If you are good at it you can make it last longer. 02:00:50 j-invariant: or actually, I could put Add in Sem, but that is ugly! 02:01:01 02:02 < Mahcaut> ⓘⓢ ⓘⓣ ⓣⓡⓤⓔ ⓣⓗⓐⓣ ⓘⓝⓣ ⓢⓘⓝ(ⓧ) ⓘⓝⓕ ❸.1❹ 02:01:05 02:02 < Mahcaut> ⓞⓞⓟⓢ 02:01:10 j-invariant: ...xDDDD 02:01:14 longer than 15 minutes? sure, that was just an indication of what kind of game pinball is, since "you might be able to hit all of the drop targets twice per game" sounded a bit less 02:01:16 than 15 minutes 02:01:19 is that #math 02:01:57 oklopol: Yes it does usually last less than 15 minutes. But sometimes it will go on longer. 02:02:15 (Also, the drop targets are not the entire game; mostly you hit the other things.) 02:02:23 and if you don't hit at all, it just falls down or? 02:02:35 or jumps around just as long 02:02:38 just as randomly 02:03:01 oklopol: The ball might just fall down, but it might also jump around. Usually it will jump around for a while and then fall down before you have many points. 02:03:15 j-invariant: 02:03:17 *Main> (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> Lam (\z -> App (App x y) z)))) 02:03:17 (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> (Lam (\v2 -> (App (App v0 v1) v2))))))) 02:03:17 *Main> eval (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> Lam (\z -> App (App x y) z)))) 02:03:17 eval (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> (Lam (\v2 -> *** Exception: /home/elliott/Code/lc/second.hs:9:35-49: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern Main.Fun f' 02:03:21 j-invariant: yep, my Sem is insufficient 02:03:27 (i.e. quote isn't total) 02:04:31 If you are not good at the game, you will probably fail to hit all of the drop targets even once. 02:05:05 *Main> eval (Lam (\x -> Lam (\y -> Lam (\z -> App (App x y) z)))) 02:05:05 eval (Lam (\v0 -> (Lam (\v1 -> (Lam (\v2 -> (App (App v0 v1) v2))))))) 02:05:06 \o/ 02:05:06 | 02:05:06 /'\ 02:05:50 *Main> eval (App (Lam (\x -> x)) (Lam (\x -> x))) 02:05:50 eval (Lam (\v0 -> v0)) 02:05:53 j-invariant: it works, how amazing is that 02:05:57 31 lines 02:06:10 7-lines extended with full printing functionality that actually works as Show 02:06:14 i.e. the result is valid Haskell 02:06:14 :D 02:06:19 (with the same result always) 02:06:42 02:08 < gnee> lol 50% IS math 02:06:42 02:09 < joo> It's like undone math cake. 02:06:42 02:09 < gnee> lol 02:06:42 02:09 < Mahcaut> ⓘⓢ ⓘⓣ ⓣⓡⓤⓔ ⓣⓗⓐⓣ ʃ ⓢⓘⓝ(ⓧ/ⓨ) ∝ ξ 02:06:45 ... 02:09:19 j-invariant: what the fuck is this xD 02:09:47 ok i need a tip 02:09:47 how do you get the limits of factorials 02:09:47 ? 02:10:11 >:) 02:10:32 j-invariant: is it bad if my Sem type contains things that could be evaluated further? 02:10:38 in my defence, my functions never produce such values 02:11:38 j-invariant: i'm asking for, like, spiritual guidance here 02:12:15 it is bad 02:12:41 j-invariant: but i need it to do proper showing! :P 02:12:57 j-invariant: the only other way is to have an extra type with its own evaluator for no real reason... 02:13:10 j-invariant: basically, you could say (SApp (Fun ...) ...), even though that should never happen 02:13:12 it's really for 02:13:17 (SApp (SVar 42) ...) 02:13:18 and the like 02:13:19 elliott: whta is it trying to do? 02:13:54 j-invariant: http://sprunge.us/dCVK 02:14:08 j-invariant: Var, SApp, and SVar exist solely to support showing 02:14:13 j-invariant: but the only problematic one is SApp 02:14:27 in that you can construct (SApp (Fun ...) ...), which should be reduced to ((...) ...) 02:14:38 no function there ever constructs that 02:14:40 but you can manually 02:14:57 elliott: Sem shouldn't be the same as Syn 02:15:08 j-invariant: well it isn't 02:15:10 it just grew into that 02:15:12 for this one special case 02:15:15 it is _not_ a mirror 02:15:19 SApp is used differently to App 02:15:25 how do you suggest I do this? 02:15:40 do what? 02:15:44 this 02:15:45 :P 02:15:53 but I don't know what the goal is 02:16:07 j-invariant: 02:16:12 data Syn = Lam (Syn -> Syn) | App Syn Syn 02:16:12 data Sem = Fun (Sem -> Sem) 02:16:12 eval :: Syn -> Sem 02:16:12 eval (Lam f) = Fun (eval . f . quote) 02:16:12 eval (App f x) = f' (eval x) where Fun f' = eval f 02:16:13 quote :: Sem -> Syn 02:16:15 quote (Fun f) = Lam (quote . f . eval) 02:16:22 extend Syn and preferably Sem to have a Show instance 02:16:29 in the most elegant, clean and short way possible 02:16:37 wait how you can quote that Sem 02:16:42 I tohught you have to have a variable thing in there 02:16:48 j-invariant: HOA 02:16:49 *HOAS 02:17:04 j-invariant: it's beautiful :D 02:17:14 i love how the Lam and Fun cases are mirrors of each other 02:20:51 j-invariant: any ideas on how to extend it? 02:21:08 ext,md 02:21:11 extend to what/? 02:21:29 extend Syn and preferably Sem to have a Show instance 02:21:29 in the most elegant, clean and short way possible 02:21:44 well you need a syntax without lambda in is 02:21:45 in it 02:21:54 j-invariant: eh? 02:22:00 j-invariant: it works fine with those, you just pass a gensym 02:22:01 pretty much 02:22:10 like SYN = Lam Name SYN | ... 02:22:23 j-invariant: yeah but isn't that the same as basically passing a gensym 02:22:31 i guess it's because you can't really evaluate (f x) where f is a free variable 02:22:36 j-invariant: ok so do you suggest i make this a third type? 02:22:42 Syn, Sem, NameSyn? 02:23:09 elliott: well maybe it is the same as GENSYM, but what I mean is that the lambda in Syn is completely cosmetic. Whereas the lambda in Sem is actually essential 02:23:24 http://imgur.com/a/dhld6 02:23:24 http://imgur.com/a/dhld6 02:23:25 http://imgur.com/a/dhld6 02:23:57 right 02:24:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Fortytwo). 02:24:40 hmm what should i call the new type :D 02:24:43 NamedSyn is so ugly 02:25:23 elliott: TrueType 02:27:35 j-invariant: i can't write Syn -> Named 02:27:39 because i'd have to pass a gensym 02:27:58 j-invariant: I don't think there is *any* way of doing this without introducing a dummy Var type into Syn 02:28:03 which then requires a brother in Sem 02:30:25 :S 02:30:26 lol http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65201 stole my fucking name 02:30:41 j-invariant: yeah i'm lost as to how to do it... 02:30:45 this is where HOAS fails 02:30:52 elliott: HOAS is stupid :/ 02:30:55 oh i know...maybe... 02:30:58 j-invariant: but really elegant for this 02:31:01 elliott: there's no fold on it 02:31:08 eh? 02:31:10 (IIRC) 02:32:00 elliott: btw, http://i.imgur.com/m4W5N.png 02:34:12 j-invariant: hey wow how did you get it rendering like that 02:34:13 that is sweet 02:34:19 elliott: LaTeX 02:34:30 elliott: which is just hte problem.... 02:34:37 j-invariant: but, err, it looks like you're mixing up your polynomials and your renderings of polynomials 02:34:47 j-invariant: I would put the rendering code in another module or whatever to avoid clashing? 02:35:01 that is amazing though 02:35:09 elliott: that's the problem X)_ 02:35:15 j-invariant: why can't you do that :) 02:35:33 elliott: I can do polynomials on their own, and modular arithmetic on it's own.. But how do I do polynomials with modular arithmetic coefficients? 02:35:54 basically I have to start combining LaTeX cleverly) 02:36:58 elliott: every. single. thing... I add to this program ends up being a huge hassle 02:37:11 j-invariant: ok i need to ask you 02:37:21 j-invariant: why are you representing things with their latex display?!?!??!! 02:37:28 wdhat do you mean 02:37:29 ? 02:37:33 maintain polynomials as abstract objects and then handle rendering to latex in another module 02:37:37 that seems like the only sane thing to do by far ... 02:39:25 elliott: I cna't be bothered fixing this I just wish it waws done 02:39:42 j-invariant: well it seems like your program is structured very wrongly 02:39:44 *structured very 02:39:51 realyl? :P 02:39:56 j-invariant: it's like you've defined + on IO Ints instead of Ints 02:40:03 haha 02:40:04 i mean, why would you even do that 02:40:09 latex is a separate thing! 02:42:36 elliott: fix my program 02:42:41 :) 02:42:46 j-invariant: gimme the file :P 02:42:54 it's a whole bunch of fiels 02:42:56 also, only if you help program scapegoat 02:42:59 j-invariant: tar it up then 02:43:00 or put it in 02:43:01 a 02:43:03 scapegoat repository 02:43:12 lolj 02:43:27 step 1 of putting smoething in a scapegoat repo: Implement scapegoat? 02:43:28 *Main> showVarred 0 (varify (Lam (\x -> x))) 02:43:28 "(\\v0 -> ((\\v1 -> ((\\v2 -> ((\\v3 -> ((\\v4 -> ((\\v5 -> ((\\v6 -> ((\\v7 -> ((\\v8 -> ((\\v9 -> ((\\v10 -> ((\\v11 -> ((\\v12 -> ((\\v13 -> ((\\v14 -> ((\\v15 -> ((\\v16 -> ((\\v17 -> ((\\v18 -> ((\\v19 -> ((\\v20 -> ((\\v21 -> ((\\v22 -> ((\\v23 -> ((\\v24 -> ((\\v25 -> ((\\v26 -> ((\\v27 -> ((\\v28 -> ((\\v29 -> ((\\v30 -> ((\\v31 -> ((\\v32 -> ((\\v33 -> ((\\v34 -> ((\\v35 -> ((\\v36 -> ((\\v37 -> ((\\v38 -> ((\\v39 -> ((\\v40 -> ((\\v41 - 02:43:28 > ((\\v42 -> ((\\v43 -> ((\\v44 -> ((\\v45 -> ((\\v46 -> ((\\v47 -> ((\\v48 -> ((\\v49 -> ((\\v50 -> ((\\v51 -> ((\\v52 -> ((\\v53 -> ((\\v54 -> ((\\v55 -> ((\\v56 -> ((\\v57 -> ((\\v58 -> ((\\v59 -> ((\\v60 -> ((\\v61 -> ((\\v62 -> ((\\v63 -> ((\\v64 -> ((\\v65 -> ((\\v66 -> ((\\v67 -> ((\\v68 -> ((\\v69 -> ((\\v70 -> ((\\v71 -> ((\\v72 -> ((\\v73 -> ((\\v74 -> ((\\v75 -> ((\\v76 -> ((\\v77 -> ((\\v78 -> ((\\v79 -> ((\\v80 -> ((\\v81 -> ((\\v82 02:43:29 : parse error on input `->' 02:43:31 -> ((\\v83 -> ((\\v84 -> ((\\v85 -> ((\\v86 -> ((\\v87 -> ((\\v88 -> ((\\v89 -> ((\\v90 -> ((\\v91 -> ((\\v92 -> ((\\v93 -> ((\\v94 -> ((\\v95 -> ((\\v96 -> ((\\v97 -> ((\\v98 -> ((\\v99 -> ((\\v100 -> ((\\v101 -> ((\\v102 -> ((\\v103 -> ((\\v104 -> ((\\v105 -> ((\\v106 -> ((\\v107 -> ((\\v108 -> ((\\v109 -> ((\\v110 -> ((\\v111 -> ((\\v112 -> ((\\v113 -> ((\\v114 -> ((\\v115 -> ((\\v116 -> ((\\v117 -> ((\\v118 -> ((\\v119 -> ((\\v120 -> ((\\v121 02:43:36 -> ((\\v122 -> ((\\v123 -> ((\\v124 -> ((\\v125 -> ((\\v126 -> ((\\v127 -> ((\\v128 -> ((\\v129 -> ((\\v130 -> ((\\v131 -> ((\\v132 -> ((\\v133 -> ((\\v134 -> ((\\v135 -> ((\\v136 -> ((\\v137 -> ((\\v138 -> ((\\v139 -> ((\\v140 -> ((\\v141 -> ((\\v142 -> ((\\v143 -> ((\\v144 -> ((\\v145 -> ((\\v146 -> ((\\v147 -> ((\\v148 -> ((\\v149 -> ((\\v150 -> ((\\v151 -> ((\\v152 -> ((\\v153 -> ((\\v154 -> ((\\v155 -> ((\\v156 -> ((\\v157 -> ((\\v158 -> 02:43:41 j-invariant: i think my code is broken 02:43:43 and yes, that's step one 02:43:44 why you shouldn't use /exec -o ^ 02:43:50 that wasn't exec -o 02:43:53 that was copy and paste magic! 02:45:23 my idea didn't work :( 02:45:24 hoas is lame 02:45:25 :P 02:45:31 hehe 02:45:35 some people really love HOAS I think 02:46:22 j-invariant: it's so cool except you CAN'T FUCKING PRINT SHIT OUT 02:46:36 j-invariant: so are you totally coding scapegoat 02:47:09 sort of 02:47:20 actually you never said how it works 02:47:31 j-invariant: quite well! 02:47:36 >_> 02:48:07 My dogs got no nose 02:48:23 I feel like a pair of curtains 02:48:53 pull yourself terrible 02:55:42 elliott: A LaTeX object will render "\\sqrt{2}" for example... what should that stsring be called? 02:55:58 j-invariant: where it can be any object being rendered? 02:55:59 j-invariant: "latex" 02:56:28 (struct latex (string) ...) <-- need a better name for the string :/ 02:56:31 j-invariant: seriously though... you want to make polynomial an abstract structure, now, and have one function to do latex rendering 02:56:34 so you'd do 02:56:39 (to-latex poly1) 02:56:40 i'm rewriting it now :P 02:56:42 and get that picture out 02:56:43 yay 02:56:44 j-invariant: make it 02:56:46 j-invariant: uh 02:56:49 j-invariant: call it "code" 02:56:59 j-invariant: wait, what is the rest of struct latex 02:57:00 hmm 02:57:04 actually this doesn't even work 02:57:07 j-invariant: wait, what is the rest of struct latex 02:57:24 i wanna know :) 02:58:05 elliott: it has a custom print method to render and display itself 02:58:15 j-invariant: so it has only one field? 02:58:19 yes 02:58:27 j-invariant: I suggest you ditch that model. 02:58:49 why? 02:58:50 j-invariant: Have to-latex, taking a polynomial, and outputting a LaTeX string. Then have render-latex, taking a LaTeX string, and outputting a Racket picture. 02:58:58 j-invariant: Then have render, which is just render-latex . to-latex 02:59:07 j-invariant: This will be much simpler, and you don't have to come up with variable names :-) 02:59:16 Structures with one element are a bit iffy in Scheme I would say, they feel wrong 02:59:32 Remember that you can use a single type for many semantic meanings in Scheme and derivatives 02:59:46 And if you can do things nicely with an existing type, such as strings and pictures, you should 02:59:57 j-invariant: try that model, I think it'll turn out cleanly 03:00:44 fizzie: Why did you remove the gio dependency from mcmap? 03:01:27 fizzie: Also: Can I factor out the platform-specific bits (i.e. the ifdef WIN32/else) into a win32.c and a posix.c, so that the rest of the code just calls functions? ifdef-portability really irks me. 03:03:26 ineiros: Oh, look at that; hMod isn't going to be updated. 03:03:27 Vorpal: ^ 03:03:35 Stock Minecraft server until Bukkit comes out which will take months. 03:04:13 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:45:07 -!- res0001 has joined. 04:05:45 -!- res0001 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 04:42:29 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:13:16 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:22:33 I had to do it with raw sockets to fix the Windows build (since GIO sockets there are just too broken); since I had that in place already I realized I could just use the same code for both. Also "yes", assuming it doesn't go all messy-looking from that. 06:44:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:47:10 Heh, so hMod won't be updated because they couldn't figure out how to do that even after being "all day" at it; everyone knows that either you can do it in a day or else it's just impossible. 06:47:52 Anyway, just because they won't doesn't mean someone else won't go through the trouble of cobbling together a build. 06:50:53 At least Bukkit is enterprisey enough to have trouble with "licensing issues" such that they need to "get in contact with Mojang to discuss what we're doing". 06:51:25 Minecraft server mods seem to be serious business. 06:55:24 Incidentally, someone's public server (the alarmingly named "FurMine") is listed as to having a beta 1.2 hMod build. 06:57:20 Also a Finnish server ("Kemicraft") says they're running 1.2_01 with their own unofficial hMod build. 07:00:34 (They also sell "VIP privileges" == access to a kit for 3/5/10 EUR -- steel/diamond/both kits -- on Kemicraft. That's enterprisey in a whole another way.) 07:10:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:13:48 RIICHI!!! 07:14:34 rîti? 07:15:39 pikhq: Yes, same thing. 07:15:52 Care to explain the significance thereof? 07:16:14 pikhq: Mahjong. 07:16:21 Oh, *duh*. 07:17:57 Do you know how many different names the normal chess game is called by? 07:18:43 -!- TLUL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:20:55 What can you make out from this chess position? http://play.chessvariants.org/pbm/play.php?game=123456+Chess&log=maeko-makov333-2009-359-344 07:23:04 zzo38: Probably gets worse when you realise that chess has a freaking *family tree* going on. 07:23:16 And that each one has its own name. 07:25:40 The normal chess game is called FIDE chess, Orthochess, Orthodox chess, International chess, Western chess, and the "Mad Queen" variant. 07:26:41 And that's just in English. >:D 07:28:46 Yes, that's just in English. 07:32:23 Do you know any more that are used in English? 07:33:11 "Normal chess". 07:34:10 Yes, of course. And also "chess" 07:40:45 -!- TLUL has joined. 07:40:50 What can you figure out from this chess position? 07:41:12 It is the black player's turn. What move? 07:42:57 -!- unenana has joined. 07:44:08 -!- unenana has quit (Client Quit). 07:46:37 I can see five ways to get out of check. Can you find more? 07:51:06 Roll one of those d6's? 07:51:16 pikhq: Not allowed. 07:51:50 (You may increase one of them by one, though. But doing so would not get you out of check, anyways.) 07:56:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:10:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 08:10:12 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 08:10:12 -!- azaq23 has joined. 08:19:25 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:19:27 The black player is going to lose the queen. 08:19:56 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 08:27:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:45:55 ineiros: Oh, look at that; hMod isn't going to be updated. 08:45:55 Vorpal: ^ 08:45:55 Stock Minecraft server until Bukkit comes out which will take months. 08:46:00 oh well, nothing to do about it 08:46:03 (source?) 08:46:59 ah found it 08:47:01 oh well 09:25:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:38:00 I tried to knock a channel because I was not invited, but I do not believe there is anyone there. 09:40:31 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:06:05 Answer me! 10:06:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Answer me!). 10:17:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:17:46 Hi :-) 10:18:50 Does anyone have a TRS-80? 10:30:32 http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65201 <<< this guy is an idiot, you have 3 dimensions in minecraft, which basically lets you do this already, and even his trivial diagrams aren't optimal 10:30:39 wait umm 10:31:04 scratch that 10:31:11 that's so stupid i don't need an argument 10:32:50 maybe if you could color more objects than just wool 10:32:58 and then redstone would be one of those 10:33:48 oh and also i think that's a good idea, just that the guy is an idiot :D 10:34:27 "only an idiot would come up with this particular good idea" 10:34:47 o 10:38:56 Psssht, bluestone is bettr. 10:38:59 *better 10:41:39 surely, that would be a very small-scale thing only useful, but it'd take 3 minutes to implement 10:41:46 *-only useful 10:41:57 did some heavy refactoring on that sentence 10:42:40 so what is your bluestone like exactly 10:43:00 is it just a general idea of what you can do with it or some actual spex 10:43:58 It allows more interactions with the environment and requires constant power, basically. 10:45:36 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 10:46:43 and what are those interactions 10:48:14 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:48:54 i mean if i find bluestone ore, what can i do with it, can i make a bluestone block? can i eat it? can i feed it to a creeper to make it walk backwards? 10:50:44 oklopol, well, you can wire things together with it. 10:51:32 erm, okay? 10:51:42 does that make them move? 10:52:01 One of the things to do was to have a more elegant wiring system. 10:52:10 Redstone's is too clunky. 10:53:22 err k 10:53:32 i thought you had moving blocks and shit 10:53:39 so how is the wiring system more elegant? 10:54:01 More compact, can be put on roofs and walls etc. 10:54:17 couldn't you just make redstone do thate 10:54:18 *that 10:54:31 Well, probably. 10:55:31 :\ 10:55:41 maybe i should've asked elliott 10:55:58 he'd've been all like AND THEN LET ME IMPROVISE SOME SEMANTICS FOR HOW BLUESTONE MOVES BLOCKS AROUND 11:00:58 maybe if you could color more objects than just wool <-- iirc someone was working on a mod for stained glass 11:01:30 wouldn't work on SMP as it currently stands due to needing to add new stuff client side for it 11:02:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:03:56 -!- drakhan has joined. 11:04:06 oklopol, he would also be be like "omg lets add lava and TNT to it" or such. 11:04:27 (nothing wrong with that, in moderation) 11:10:10 when a bluestone signal is sent to lav 11:10:11 a 11:10:16 a huge lava monster is born 11:10:31 and also 11:10:38 when bluestone signal is applied to tnt 11:10:45 a huge tnt monster is born 11:10:58 it's like a creeper but slightly deadlier. 11:16:00 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:24:03 -!- impomatic has left (?). 11:28:47 oklopol, "slightly"? 11:30:09 Hi there. 11:30:43 As I think, many people in here are interested in esoteric, spiritual development, occult, yes? 11:31:42 drakhan, no. It is about esoteric programming languages 11:34:00 Oh, my bad :x 11:35:26 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:34 -!- drakhan has left (?). 11:48:13 Been a while since we had a neopagan. 11:55:58 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined. 11:57:53 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:00:20 Chrome doesn't have AdBlock Plus. 12:00:25 Ugh. 12:16:11 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 12:18:36 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:01:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:05:35 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:17:08 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:19:26 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 13:22:29 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:28:45 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:31:07 -!- j-invariant has joined. 13:34:57 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:38:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:39:49 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:56:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:01:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:11:23 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 14:13:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:16:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:28:28 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:51:46 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:57:30 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:44 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 15:07:52 "B has got it into her nut that A is in love with her. Now until recently, B was engaged to ... errr" "Shall we call him C, sir?" "Well alright, Caesar is as good a name as any." 15:08:56 lol 15:13:03 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:13:32 -!- cheater00 has joined. 15:13:54 * oerjan tries to remember the names one cryptologist used that were real names but pronounced like A and B 15:14:02 i think Bea was one of them 15:14:10 hah 15:14:33 the other one was something irish-like and thus impossible to guess the spelling of 15:15:44 Abhmnghe? 15:15:48 and iirc it was male 15:15:54 Phantom_Hoover: not _that_ absurd 15:16:09 something like aeion or the like, i think 15:21:08 ah found it 15:21:10 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:21:12 Aodh and Bea 15:21:19 ... 15:21:58 (wikipedia's Irish name article to the rescue) 15:22:39 Card Colm's column is where i saw it first 15:25:21 um *-'s 15:25:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaoSzCfa9OM 15:25:54 Wow. 15:28:01 -!- variable has joined. 15:30:47 variable! 15:33:18 -!- j-invariant has joined. 15:33:23 j-invariant! 15:33:40 hey Phantom_Hoover 15:33:47 hows it going 15:34:13 Left. 15:35:00 07:13:54 * oerjan tries to remember the names one cryptologist used that were real names but pronounced like A and B 15:35:12 Someone deviated form Alice and Bob? TREASON 15:35:14 Phantom_Hoover: oh, neat 15:35:53 j-invariant: it wasn't actually cryptology btw, it was mathematical card games 15:35:59 especially like how it's all sunk into the ground to what must be the same depth as the height of those example cells 15:39:08 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:39:28 -!- variable has joined. 15:45:56 -!- elliott has joined. 15:46:30 hi 15:47:10 If you don't beleive in caetgory theory you will be eater by sabre toothed tigers 15:47:35 category theory is like GOD, how can you BELIEVE in it!!!OI 15:47:38 Every time you say you don't believe in category theory a fairy dies. 15:47:54 http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/s0894694/agda-course/ 15:47:57 wdat's it going to teach? 15:47:57 # Uncomment to get a beep at grub start 15:47:58 #GRUB_INIT_TUNE="480 440 1" 15:48:00 omg 15:48:03 i can make it play a tune 15:48:07 best day 15:48:14 j-invariant: so you'll be gored by big cats? 15:48:23 *groan* 15:48:45 elliott: hey i wouldn't even have noticed if not for the egregious misspellings 15:48:53 :D 15:50:42 elliott: hi 15:51:31 hi 15:52:22 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:54:55 j-invariant, I could always break in if given suitable payment. 15:55:26 Hey, and I can use the opportunity to kidnap Conor McBride. 15:56:38 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:59:05 Phantom_Hoover: do you have to pay? 15:59:26 I don't know. 15:59:28 -!- elliott has joined. 15:59:38 elliott: http://i.imgur.com/J0U4t.png 15:59:40 But I have other things to waste my time on. 15:59:47 pikhq: Kernel modesetting isn't supported by the native nvidia drivers, right? 16:00:13 j-invariant: great! did you try my idea of ditching the latex type? 16:00:16 no 16:00:21 psht :p 16:00:30 What's this? 16:00:36 wait, did you still not make polynomials abstract objects? 16:00:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/118670 16:00:58 this is my generic function system 16:01:03 j-invariant: ouch... i'm not sure you want to do that 16:01:10 do what 16:01:12 that 16:01:19 be specific 16:01:20 programming, ever again 16:01:23 that whole paste :P 16:01:37 * oklopol didn't actually open the file 16:02:44 elliott: Okay you should see my actual code first, because maybe you have imagined it is different than it is 16:02:53 possible 16:04:41 * elliott reboots 16:05:26 programming, ever again <-- what 16:06:02 elliott: http://i.imgur.com/sI2Ot.png & http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XWS1MuCj 16:07:13 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:08:00 " do what" " programming, ever again" 16:08:47 i figured if elliott isn't direct about it, it must be pretty devastating 16:09:15 if elliott was a doctor and a guy had cancer he'd go to the guy and say "hey mister X, you have cancer" 16:09:29 ah. 16:09:43 and then the guy'd be like "oh my god, is it terminal" and elliott would be all like "yes." 16:10:22 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:10:34 YOU KILLED THEM BOTH 16:10:43 * oerjan starts getting nervous 16:10:58 -!- j-invariant has joined. 16:11:06 eek, zombie 16:11:40 and the me who'd be his secretary would go all like isn't terminal cancer one despair-filled can, sir 16:11:49 and elliott would go like "lol, classic oklo" 16:12:09 and then the guy would leave because he thought elliott was an occultist doctor 16:12:32 -!- sftp has joined. 16:12:52 but he's actually just a completely insane doctor that specializes in curing methods that aren't at all practical, just weird. 16:13:08 and everyone would be mining the walls of the hospital all day 16:13:20 i think i'm having a dream 16:13:24 Minecraft hospital! 16:13:30 i need to go steal some yoghurt -> 16:13:39 ah, extcore! I think I could build jonguilexiphonaugh on that (http://hackage.haskell.org/package/extcore) 16:13:50 Phantom_Hoover: beware of creepers in the corridors! 16:14:07 You pay taxes in the form of wheat and then there's just a dispenser that throws bread at you. 16:14:11 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:11 mm yohgurt 16:14:18 that was a typo 16:14:29 yo, hgurt 16:14:37 My yog hurts! 16:14:53 Phantom_Hoover: too much yoga! 16:15:42 beware of yog sothoth 16:18:07 -!- sftp has joined. 16:21:00 * Phantom_Hoover falls into a pit of boredom 16:21:06 -!- elliott has joined. 16:21:15 ubuntu is working stupidly well 16:21:44 08:09:15 if elliott was a doctor and a guy had cancer he'd go to the guy and say "hey mister X, you have cancer" 16:21:44 08:09:43 and then the guy'd be like "oh my god, is it terminal" and elliott would be all like "yes." 16:21:44 <3 16:21:52 well, it's certainly good to hear that ubuntu is so good at working stupidly! 16:21:59 I would have caused the cancer, naturally. 16:22:07 j-invariant: i see that code but i still think you should do it my way :) 16:22:22 because i'm awesome, you see 16:23:03 elliott: but then j-invariant might get an awesomeness overdose! have you thought of THAT? 16:23:09 tru 16:23:22 j-invariant: what I would do is: (define (render x) (texvc-render (to-latex x))) 16:23:26 j-invariant: then, using your generic thing 16:23:34 (define-generic-procedure (to-latex x) define-latex) 16:23:39 j-invariant: and they return strings 16:23:42 render flesh 16:23:53 j-invariant: then you can just do (to-latex 3) to get "3" and (render 3) to get $3$ 16:24:10 j-invariant: oh and btw i'm sure Racket already has a library for multiple-dispatch style stuff like you are doing with define-generic procedure 16:24:19 and a proper type system too rather than using predicates like that 16:24:34 -!- j-invariant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:53 08:13:39 ah, extcore! I think I could build jonguilexiphonaugh on that (http://hackage.haskell.org/package/extcore) 16:25:53 naturally 16:26:59 Phantom_Hoover: You know, Minecraft is sorta like Eversion Lite. 16:27:16 elliott: the major obstacle for making progress on that is that I need a frontend for the source language, and I think haskell should be fine as that source language 16:27:47 elliott, ...*how*? 16:28:08 "Oh, it's like *LEGO*. For kids." "Sheesh, this grass is obnoxiously bright. And I'm this stupid block-guy?" "And I make a little cute house. How wonderful and mature." "Hey, this cave looks interesting." "Bit dark in here, oh well." [hurrrrrrrrng] "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT" [slrrrrrrp] "AH OH GOD WHAT ARE YOU I'M DYING OH FUCK" [You died!] 16:28:13 otoh, I'll need to check that I can actually use GHC Core directly :) 16:28:28 Phantom_Hoover: I said SORTA 16:28:38 olsner: what is it, again? 16:28:47 the kim jong-ilasjoifjofdgjkhklfjgh 16:28:57 elliott: not much more than a name :) 16:30:48 elliott: jonguilexiphonaugh, I don't see why you have such problems spelling it :P 16:30:54 quite 16:31:07 olsner: so you are totally going to use SCAPEGOAT to manage the jonguilexiphonaugh repository??????? 16:31:10 yes???? 16:31:17 I might if you tell me what the heck that is 16:31:37 does it have an implementation yet? 16:33:19 -!- j-invariant has joined. 16:40:57 elliott, down? 16:41:21 olsner: not _yet_, but i am actually working on it 16:41:30 j-invariant: what I would do is: (define (render x) (texvc-render (to-latex x))) 16:41:30 j-invariant: then, using your generic thing 16:41:30 (define-generic-procedure (to-latex x) define-latex) 16:41:30 j-invariant: and they return strings 16:41:30 j-invariant: then you can just do (to-latex 3) to get "3" and (render 3) to get $3$ 16:41:33 j-invariant: oh and btw i'm sure Racket already has a library for multiple-dispatch style stuff like you are doing with define-generic procedure 16:41:36 and a proper type system too rather than using predicates like that 16:42:03 i'm going to assume Vorpal has said "down?" 16:42:04 and reply yes 16:43:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:43:06 elliott: did you see my image and source code paste 16:43:10 yes 16:43:14 and replied with that suggestion :> 16:51:05 Vorpal: http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Nw 16:51:20 * Vorpal looks 16:51:22 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:51:52 (That screenshot really makes me wish for biome-compliant grass in Painterly that worked on the side (Notch's bug).) 16:51:55 (Lovely colour of grass.) 16:52:01 Blends in really well with the scenery. 16:53:43 -!- TLUL has changed nick to TLUL|afk. 16:53:44 -!- j-invariant has joined. 16:53:56 I can't figure how to remap a key 16:54:40 j-invariant: in what 16:54:49 UBUNTU 16:54:54 j-invariant: what key to what other key 16:56:04 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:57:13 elliott: "turn off internet" key to do nothing 16:57:45 j-invariant: Run "xev" from terminal and focus the window it pops up, wait a second, press the key, and look (without moving mouse or anything) at the last event in the terminla 16:58:06 Specifically the "keycode" part of a KeyPress/KeyRelease event pair. 16:58:07 elliott: I tried that :( then xmodmapping it to NoSymbol 16:58:16 What went wrong? 16:58:28 well there was no error messages at all, but it doesn't do anything 16:58:34 the key just continued to do what it does 16:58:51 j-invariant: what file did you put it in? 16:59:08 what file? no file 16:59:16 what command did you run 16:59:17 I just use xmodmap -e 'keycode ... 17:00:02 -!- TLUL|afk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:00:07 j-invariant: right... just _have_ to check, you didn't reboot after right? :-P 17:00:15 no I didn't 17:00:26 Itried putting the command into .xinitrc and rebotting though 17:00:30 that ddidn't do anything either 17:00:33 -!- TLUL|afk has joined. 17:00:53 so you did "keycode 358934593475345 = NoSymbol"? 17:00:59 yes 17:01:05 except its' a 3 digit number 17:01:10 yeah yeah 17:01:16 j-invariant: probably what happens is that it turns it off in hardware, and then sends the key 17:01:20 so there's nothing you can do 17:01:21 sorry :/ 17:01:25 I will try BIOS 17:01:29 maybe there is a configure option there 17:01:32 probably the best idea, yeah 17:01:35 but I don't knoww hot to access that. 17:02:35 j-invariant: erm when you boot your pc up hammer delete and f2 17:02:38 those are the most common keys 17:02:46 it usually says on the screen somewhere what key will do it 17:02:53 but try del and f2 first, just hammer them constantly :P 17:03:03 "If the OS can't see anything when you press the brightness keys, it could be because they're handled directly by the BIOS. The battle is not completely lost — it is in principle possible to hack the BIOS — but the difficulty level is considerably raised." 17:03:40 j-invariant: just try booting into the bios, sometimes they have options to disable the keys 17:03:44 it's not hard to use the bios :-P 17:04:17 how do you do it? 17:04:24 j-invariant: j-invariant: erm when you boot your pc up hammer delete and f2 17:04:24 those are the most common keys 17:04:24 it usually says on the screen somewhere what key will do it 17:04:24 but try del and f2 first, just hammer them constantly :P 17:04:36 okay thanks ill try! 17:04:39 and then it's just an easy menu-driven interface :P 17:04:43 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:08:28 -!- j-invariant has joined. 17:08:38 elliott: great! that fixed it, thanks 17:08:44 j-invariant: :) 17:08:45 no problem 17:08:50 -!- cheater00 has joined. 17:08:58 FINALLY 17:09:04 that was annoying me for ages 17:09:09 kept pressing "turn off internet" by accident 17:12:11 hah 17:35:26 I g9ess I will dgo on minecraft 17:35:40 h I can intall stuff now 17:36:00 elliott, yes? 17:36:10 Vorpal: "I would like detailed birch bark for my birch trees." or "I would like detailed dark birch bark for my birch trees.", latter is best, see the customiser's previews 17:36:19 the former is just too high contrast, *really* ugly 17:36:34 it's brighter in-game than it looks there, btw, for both of them 17:36:36 elliott, the former I think. well, I'll see how it looks when I find a birch 17:36:44 are they biome specific? 17:36:50 not relaly 17:36:51 *really 17:36:58 try tree farming 17:37:04 or just going to ungenerated terrain :D 17:37:55 elliott: how do I find the most recent versions of e.g. optimine? 17:37:56 or just going to ungenerated terrain :D <--- that would be far and take ages 17:38:06 j-invariant: um you get them from the forum 17:38:11 e.g. http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=132717 17:38:24 yeah how do you know that's the most recent one? 17:38:25 j-invariant: I can link you to all the mods I mentioned if you want, they can be hard to google 17:38:32 j-invariant: um because it's started by the mod author 17:38:34 who keeps the thread updated 17:38:39 okay 17:38:42 they can edit the fpost 17:38:43 *the post 17:38:50 ,elliott I just didnt'w atn to install a bunch of weird versions like an idiot :P 17:39:14 j-invariant: with mip mapping, the link in the first post is actuallywrong 17:39:20 j-invariant: I can link you to the correct one, but remember the order :P 17:39:37 *mipmapping, please be more careful about typos 17:39:40 optimine -> mcregion -> mipmapping -> better light+grass -> texture pack 17:39:49 oklopol: it's actually MIP mapping 17:39:51 shortened to mipmapping 17:39:57 so mip mapping is correct if you eschew lowercase 17:40:01 ergo f u 17:40:37 i just needed to point out j-invariant's awesomely typo filled message 17:40:55 which admittedly just had two centers of typoty 17:41:01 typoty? 17:41:03 anyhow 17:41:11 j-invariant: when you get to mipmapping let me know and i'll link you to the right version for the new beta 17:41:25 j-invariant: do you use painterly already? 17:41:31 no I don't use any mods of anything yet 17:41:38 I'm trying optimine now 17:41:45 ah 17:41:49 so is mipmapping from the latin word MIP 17:41:51 wait 17:41:53 oklopol: yes 17:41:53 :D 17:41:56 did i ask this already 17:42:05 oklopol: multium in parvo or something 17:42:07 i didn't, but i asked something related 17:42:11 multum in parvo 17:42:12 parvo? 17:42:15 many in one 17:42:18 well 17:42:21 "much in a small space" 17:42:27 elliott: how do I check if optimine is working :| 17:42:31 j-invariant: you don't, it is 17:42:37 if you did the steps, and it starts, then it's working :) 17:42:40 guh 17:42:46 if you forgot to delete META-INF it wouldn't even start 17:42:48 so you did it right 17:42:51 I have no idea whether this is any different from the normal one 17:42:59 it is, don't worry 17:43:00 do mcregion next 17:43:11 also elliott, don't you have to reinstall these mods every time there is an update 17:43:11 j-invariant: painterly has rather bad defaults and HUNDREDS of customisation options, so you'll want to go through http://painterlypack.net/customizer.php sometime soon 17:43:16 elliott, still no sign of a server? 17:43:19 and yes, but it really doesn't take that long 17:43:21 Phantom_Hoover: no, it's updated 17:43:28 j-invariant: I can apply all these mods in like... 3 minutes 17:43:32 j-invariant: besides, you won't have to do it every update 17:43:35 since they won't be updated themselves yet 17:43:41 so it's really every update plus a few days 17:43:42 elliott, no, I mean that SSP one. 17:43:46 Phantom_Hoover: Oh. Indeed. 17:43:50 Phantom_Hoover: *SMP 17:43:58 elliott: man I dunno if I like this it sounds like a problematic thing 17:44:05 Phantom_Hoover: But a322 is back up! 17:44:07 j-invariant: like what? 17:44:07 having to convert saves back and forth if an update comes out 17:44:12 elliott, yaaaaay! 17:44:19 j-invariant: You don't have to install it, but it's only one command to convert them. 17:44:23 And it speeds up single-player immensely. 17:44:26 But it's your game ofc :P 17:44:36 it just sounds like somethign that might go wrong 17:44:56 j-invariant: Scaevolus is a very well-respected modder 17:45:02 j-invariant: in fact part of optimine was included in the latest update 17:45:06 by Mojang 17:45:10 I'd trust it, but it's up to you :P 17:45:14 It is a big speedup 17:45:45 Phantom_Hoover: Notch and the Mojangs: http://i.imgur.com/CVAYf.jpg (via reddit) 17:45:53 I saw. 17:45:55 j-invariant: you can skip mcregion, all the other mods will still work fine 17:46:22 j-invariant: i'll link you to the right mipmapping download 17:46:34 j-invariant: http://up.dafk.net/files/9de39/minecraftmipmap4dev.zip 17:46:35 elliott: how do I know if mcregion has installed properly :/ 17:46:41 j-invariant: it is 17:46:42 don't worry 17:46:46 it's impossible to install it wrongly 17:46:49 if you copied the files over 17:46:51 and it starts 17:46:54 then you did it right 17:47:10 j-invariant: you don't have to delete META-INF in future btw, since you already did 17:47:28 j-invariant: note that Better Light/Grass are applied differently to most other mods 17:47:43 it does feel faster but I don't know if it REALLY is 17:47:51 j-invariant: it's not slower, so who cares :P 17:47:52 fizzie, has mcmap been updated for Beta 1.2? 17:47:55 Phantom_Hoover: No. 17:48:13 I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED 17:48:16 j-invariant: http://www.multiupload.com/ZJWVAP6EUB this is better light/grass -- unpack the zip into ~/.minecraft, you don't need to touch the jar 17:48:25 j-invariant: then do "java -jar MrMPatcher.jar" inside .minecraft 17:48:42 j-invariant: tick Better Light, Better Grass, and SMChat if you want (simplemap doesn't work without tweaking in the latest version), and click patch 17:48:56 j-invariant: only do that after mipmapping though 17:49:09 otherwise mipmapping will overwrite better light & better grass 17:49:26 okay 17:49:53 Phantom_Hoover: No, but now that there's a vanilla 1.2_01 up, I think I'll update it. 17:50:07 As soon as this render finishes. 17:50:18 fizzie: I'll factor out portamability stuff into separate files first. 17:50:28 I'll test OS X compilation sometime too. 17:50:48 fizzie: SO CAN I MOVE THE MCMAP REPOSITORY TO GOATPEN, THE ONLY SCAPEGOAT HOST 17:50:52 *THAT MATTERS 17:51:01 I don't think it'll really overlap. 17:51:07 You can host your ML rewrite there. :p 17:52:31 elliott: I installed MrMMods but it doesn't show in mods 17:52:39 j-invariant: it shouldn't 17:52:41 there is no official mod support yet 17:52:47 j-invariant: did you run the patcher and everything? 17:53:00 yes 17:53:04 j-invariant: just load a world 17:53:06 the lighting has improved ;D 17:53:08 j-invariant: and look at the lighting of blocks 17:53:08 yep 17:53:11 j-invariant: and also, look at grass on a hill 17:53:14 you'll see it goes down all the way 17:53:27 j-invariant: btw you have to use better grass for now, better light on its own doesn't work properly 17:53:31 hey I found a way to get infinite wool 17:53:34 j-invariant: did you get mipmapping installed? 17:53:45 just take some wool, drown yourself go and pick it up again and the sheep will have its wool back 17:53:56 lol 17:53:59 elliott: I have no idea, I did "install it" but there is no confirmation that it worked 17:54:11 j-invariant: go to the top of a mountain and look at a mountain further away 17:54:17 if it looks smooth, then mipmapping is working 17:54:30 also if you stand on some land and look at where it meets the first block on top 17:54:34 if that's smoothed, then it's working 17:54:35 also 17:54:38 if you look at a big sea 17:54:43 and it just becomes blue the further away it is 17:54:44 then it's working 17:55:09 elliott, hah, a squid on land 17:55:18 Vorpal: Screenshot? 17:55:22 SILLY SQUID. YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO BE THERE. 17:55:38 elliott, it is next to the water stream near subrary bridge 17:55:46 Vorpal: It'll probably be gone by the time I get there. 17:55:57 elliott, I'm standing there atm. Just get on now and walk there? 17:55:59 do I do mcpatcher now 17:56:10 j-invariant: no 17:56:11 or wait, now it went away 17:56:18 j-invariant: you use that to apply the texture pac 17:56:19 k 17:56:26 j-invariant: go through http://painterlypack.net/customizer.php and make your selections 17:56:33 elliott, well it was moving weirdly, that a screenshot can't capture 17:56:41 like how pigs move when on fire 17:56:53 j-invariant: mcpatcher's checkboxes are confusingly named, but basically you want to have them all ticked apart from Custom Water and Animated Water (trust me, even if this makes no sense, this gives you painterly water and keeps the rest working) 17:57:00 j-invariant: but you need to feed it a texture pack 17:57:00 bit instead of up/down, it did it horizontally 17:57:02 thus http://painterlypack.net/customizer.php 17:57:02 but* 17:57:25 j-invariant: http://github.com/downloads/pclewis/mcpatcher/mcpatcher-1.1.11.jar put this wherever, but yeah, you need to customise painterly first 17:57:28 ah no it is there 17:57:30 I just timed out 17:57:31 j-invariant: I can give you the painterly pack I use 17:57:35 which I used to take that screenshot you saw 17:57:39 if you don't wanna bother customising everything 17:59:02 j-invariant: just ping me if you want me to upload it 17:59:09 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:01:34 -!- j-invariant has joined. 18:01:40 Heh, he's added a yet another complicated "stream of variable-sized items" packet field format that needs to be completely decoded in order to be skipped over. GRAA, why can't he just add a length field in the protocol. 18:02:20 elliott: http://i.imgur.com/emifw.png 18:02:22 is that normal? 18:02:36 j-invariant: press F5 18:02:56 j-invariant: did you use the mipmapping link i gave you? the one in the post is wrong 18:03:01 i can't tell from the screeny but i'm not sure you have mipmapping 18:03:18 fizzie: why do you undef main on win32? 18:03:38 elliott: I mean the grass http://i.imgur.com/gFNHg.png 18:03:55 j-invariant: that's Better Grass :) 18:04:02 ah, you do have mipmapping 18:04:07 but why do you use such a tiny window to play in?! 18:04:22 j-invariant: btw better grass looks nicer with painterly 18:04:23 by far 18:04:30 since with painterly, normal grass goes down 2/3rds of the way 18:04:51 okay im configuring paintlerly :) 18:04:57 elliott: Because otherwise SDL.h redefines it to SDL_main, but that causes mingw to go all "there is no main() method in the application, I'll use WinMain as the entry point" even if I statically link against libSDLmain. 18:05:03 j-invariant: my configuration is the BESTEST!!! 18:05:14 fizzie: Ah, I'll put it in platform.h then, as ugly as that is. 18:05:34 I would like a crude creeper large pumpkin. 18:06:16 j-invariant: that's what i have :D 18:06:29 j-invariant: btw you probably do not want biome compliant grass 18:06:34 (biome-compliant leaves are fine) 18:06:40 because it doesn't work for side-grass, because Notch sucks 18:06:55 Wow, Jeeves and Wooster went downright crazy in the last season. 18:07:30 j-invariant: btw I'd do "cp ~/.minecraft/bin/{minecraft.jar,minecraft.good.jar}" now 18:07:36 just in case you mess up mcpatcher, happens to the best of us :P 18:07:49 elliott: oh for goodness sake this customizer is MASSIVE 18:07:57 j-invariant: yes it is, want my precustomised pack? :P 18:08:05 some of us take our painterly customisation err...quite seriously 18:08:12 btr 18:08:20 btr? 18:08:27 I have minecraft.jar, minercaft (copy).jar and minecraft.mrm2011-1-16-0 18:08:32 haha 18:08:39 make minecraft.patched.up.the.wazoo.jar 18:08:40 or something 18:08:44 (copy) is my backup, I think mrm is Mr... backup 18:08:51 yeah 18:08:56 you want a backup with all the patches though 18:08:58 before mcpatcher 18:09:01 fizzie: If I turn -DWIN32 into -DPLATFORM=win32, is that okay? 18:09:46 There is no -DWIN32 at the moment. 18:09:50 It's mingw-defined automagically. 18:10:03 But I can do -DPLATFORM=win32 if you want. 18:10:19 fizzie: Or even BETTER 18:10:22 #ifdef WIN32 18:10:26 #define PLATFORM win32 18:10:28 #endif 18:10:30 BEST IDEA?? 18:10:51 Well, why nots, assuming it ends up in all the places that test for PLATFORM. 18:12:10 -!- acetoline has joined. 18:12:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:12:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:12:53 platform.h:9: error: pasting "PLATFORM" and "." does not give a valid preprocessing token 18:12:56 Gah, how are you meant to do that, again? 18:13:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:22 Or maybe I should just use a conditional, wacky. 18:13:24 Sometimes you need a separate macro, if you want it to expand PLATFORM. 18:13:35 #define PLATFORM_HEADER_NAME_(x) x##.h 18:13:35 #define PLATFORM_HEADER_NAME PLATFORM_HEADER_NAME_(PLATFORM) 18:13:35 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:13:35 #define QUOTE_(x) #x 18:13:35 #define QUOTE(x) QUOTE_(x) 18:13:35 #define PLATFORM_HEADER QUOTE(PLATFORM_HEADER_NAME) 18:13:35 #include PLATFORM_HEADER 18:13:42 fizzie: I actually just want that first macro there to work without erroring :-P 18:13:45 ORRRR I could just do it manually. 18:14:33 fizzie: Or, wait, I'll just pass -iwin32.h to the compiler. 18:14:35 That's the "sanest" thing. 18:15:01 Erm, *-include win32.h 18:15:56 I don't see what's so unsane about just a single #if .. #include "win32.h" #elif .. #include "posix.h" #else #error "your platform is bad" #endif chain somewhere. (As opposed to trying to autodefine the header name like that. 18:16:03 fizzie: Mind if I ditch useful.make? It's bugging me. 18:16:05 elliott: Jeeves and Wooster managed to go three and half seasons with no transvestites, but being British and all just couldn't make it much further. 18:16:12 (Yes, yes, so HYPOCRITICAL.) 18:16:16 Gregor: Verily. 18:16:28 You added it, of course you can get rid of it too if you like. 18:16:32 Sweet, I'm gonna delete all the files I added. For anarchy! 18:17:03 elliott: cant' decide between: 18:17:03 The core of my world is delicious candycane. ◊ 18:17:03 PreviewPreview 18:17:04 I want to live on the back of a cosmic space turtle. 18:17:19 j-invariant: I use boring ol' bedrock, but I'd go for space-turtle. 18:17:26 The candycane is rather glaring when you're in a dark mine at bedrock. 18:18:19 -!- Behold has joined. 18:18:21 http://p.zem.fi/c179 -- *so* pretty. (The new packet field format is: read records until id byte == 127; record size depends on three top bits of ID byte, with 0 → 1 byte, 1 → 2 bytes, 2/3 → 4 bytes, 4 → length-prefixed UTF-8 string, 5 → 5 bytes.) 18:18:23 fizzie, working on mcmap update? 18:18:28 (Yet another place where it can get broken.) 18:18:47 fizzie, the whole protocol changed fundamentally? 18:19:01 No, he just added yet another field type that doesn't have a fixed length. 18:19:06 oh 18:19:16 It's used for something mob-related. 18:19:24 ah 18:21:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:25:40 fizzie: What would be your most approved-of renaming of main? (The platforms will handle main() itself.) 18:26:19 elliott: what's up with all the non-square moons and suns? Weird 18:26:28 j-invariant: I use them :P 18:26:34 (Plain circular moon, circular sun) 18:27:11 Anything, really; but preferrably something that includes the substring "main". (And no, something incorporating the verb "remain" doesn't quite count.) 18:27:51 I'll make it mcmap_main. 18:28:12 fizzie: What's this setlocale(LC_ALL, "") nonsense? 18:28:16 elliott: Finally made my pack 18:28:17 Are we a locale-friendly app now? 18:28:17 java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 504 for URL: http://www.minecraft.net/game/joinserver.jsp?[...] -- is there some sort of a problem, or is that just me? 18:28:18 :p 18:28:21 j-invariant: \o/ 18:28:21 | 18:28:21 >\ 18:28:36 j-invariant: Download mcpatcher, tick all except Custom Water and Animated Water, specify pack location 18:28:38 Press Patch 18:28:40 Start Minecraft 18:28:41 Rejoice 18:28:43 elliott: It manages to localize the glib help messages (partially) and something else. I don't remember what I thought when adding it. 18:28:49 j-invariant: (Assuming you ticked a water you like in the customiser.) 18:31:02 why not have custom water? 18:31:11 what should tile size be? 18:31:15 j-invariant: er, wait 18:31:17 j-invariant: OK, leave tile size 18:31:19 j-invariant: you want to: 18:31:21 untick custom lava 18:31:25 untick animated water 18:31:27 make sure all others are ticked 18:31:35 (Animated water actually *disables* Painterly's animated water.) 18:31:37 (So you want it UNTICKED.) 18:31:40 tile size is 16x16 18:31:43 yep 18:31:44 that's correct 18:31:48 click Patch, close the patcher, start minecraft normally 18:31:51 :((( 18:31:54 j-invariant: ? 18:32:05 Replacing kf.class: java.io.FileNotFoundException: newcode/kf.class 18:32:11 what 18:32:15 j-invariant: do the paths look right? 18:32:58 in the dialogue box 18:32:59 that you select 18:33:22 fizzie: So are we going to have a fancy GTK launcher someday? :P 18:34:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:34:16 I don't really think so. :p 18:34:29 I got "Success ...probably" this time, with custom water off 18:34:30 laggy 18:34:54 seems to have worked 18:35:07 j-invariant: ah 18:35:13 j-invariant: you forgot to enable water in painterly customiser!! 18:35:14 go fix it 18:35:24 Do not include MCPATCHER animation files for water. 18:35:25 Include MCPATCHER animation files for light water. 18:35:25 Include MCPATCHER animation files for dark water. 18:35:27 choose one of the latter two 18:35:28 dark is best imo :P 18:35:35 btw hover over the pictures to get previews 18:35:59 I chose dark water 18:36:54 j-invariant: are you sure? :/ 18:37:02 j-invariant: you are on 1.2_01, right? 18:37:04 minecraft 18:37:32 fizzie: Should I name portable types and functions like socket() and the socket type with mcmap_ prefix or sth? 18:37:40 fizzie: typedef int mcmap_socket; and the like. 18:37:43 Or platform_socket? 18:37:47 Yeah, I'll go for platform_ prefix. 18:38:13 ITS SO BEAUTIFUL OMFG 18:38:48 j-invariant: If you want to hear your hardware scream, set viewing distance to far and rendering to fancy. 18:39:46 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 18:43:12 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:43:56 fizzie: Is it okay if the win32 console still gets threaded, even though it isn't quite required? 18:44:09 elliott, how does a language like Slate manage to ... exist so long while going practically nowhere, generating little interest? 18:44:23 Can the thread do anything there? I mean, the currently ifdef'd-out code won't compile on Windows. 18:44:43 fizzie: Well, the idea is that there'd be a few console_* functions in platform.h, that both posix.c and win32.c would implement. 18:44:49 And posix.c would use readline and win32.c just the usual read() stuff. 18:44:53 Or, er, fread, whatever. 18:44:56 fgets. whatever. 18:45:05 fizzie: So it'd be threaded in all cases. 18:45:18 Hmm'k. Well, why not. 18:45:21 Sgeo: "going practically nowhere" is quite insulting to all the people who have been working on it for years. Besides, there was a dip in activity for years, this is a "revival". 18:45:23 One more thread doesn't really matter. 18:45:48 A revival that seems to consist of one person, as far as I can tell 18:46:13 Io is basically a one-man project too. 18:46:17 fizzie, pushed? 18:46:22 Anyway, I'll push this protocol-update change; it only changes protocol.h (and there only the packet_id and field_type enums) and protocol.c, it should auto-merge without any problems. 18:46:26 Hmm 18:46:34 Vorpal: I don't believe he's done. 18:46:43 Oh, so he is. 18:46:51 I am; I just testeded it a moment ago. 18:47:01 -!- TLUL|afk has changed nick to TLUL. 18:47:02 elliott, right, he said in game he was about to push, then he left the game 18:47:05 There it goes. 18:47:22 fizzie: Actually, come to think of it, I can just only have the thread in posix.c. 18:47:42 2 files changed, 61 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) 18:47:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:49:36 fizzie: Is console_readline ever false on POSIX? 18:51:09 Phantom_Hoover, there? Planning on that joint expedition still? 18:51:25 Yep. 18:51:29 Hm? 18:51:35 What joint expedition? 18:51:39 Phantom_Hoover, now seems like a perfect time to do it 18:51:40 elliott, for lapis. 18:51:42 Phantom_Hoover, :) 18:51:47 Updating mcmap... 18:51:52 elliott: It can be if there is both atexit + regular-quit cleanup. 18:51:54 Phantom_Hoover: Filthy traitor! 18:51:56 wait, what colour is it in mcmap? 18:51:59 fizzie, ^ 18:52:07 Oh, mcmap doesn't have that block colored yet. 18:52:10 So it'll be black. 18:52:15 ah well I'll add it then I guess. 18:52:33 You can manually add it for now; I'll fix that (and note blocks and whatnot) a bit later. 18:52:53 0x15 18:53:10 Non-white cloth blocks will also be black at the moment. 18:53:38 fizzie, any plans to make mcmap highlight specific blocks? 18:53:48 fizzie, aren't they all the same id, but different durability? 18:53:56 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, with a //command. 18:54:13 Vorpal: Oh, right, they might be. The classic cloth block had different IDs. 18:54:19 Do pressure plates provide charge downwards? 18:54:40 Vorpal, I'll need to get armour. 18:54:43 elliott, yes. 18:55:11 Phantom_Hoover, hm. 18:55:25 Is mcmap working for you, BtW? 18:55:35 Phantom_Hoover, about how long do you estimate? I have an early morning tomorrow 18:55:48 Vorpal, however long it takes... 18:55:55 right 18:56:22 Phantom_Hoover, what about NE approx? 18:56:27 Shouldn't be that long; we just need to branch mine at a specific depth/ 18:56:38 Vorpal, how about (-4000,-4000)? 18:56:49 Vorpal: I seem to recall you "not being interested" in lapis? 18:56:51 Phantom_Hoover, well tell me if there is water to fall in there :P 18:57:03 elliott, well I'm not HUGELY interested. But some will be fun :P 18:59:08 -!- BMG has joined. 19:00:18 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host). 19:00:18 -!- BMG has joined. 19:00:21 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 19:02:20 Phantom_Hoover, what happened? 19:02:29 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:02:30 Landed on a chunk error. 19:02:37 ah 19:08:07 sed 's,\($*\)\.o[ :]*,\1.o $@ : ,g' > $@ 19:08:10 fizzie: What does that line noise do? 19:09:06 It adds the depfile in the list of targets, so that it also depends on the dependencies. 19:09:12 fuck minecraft.net being downish 19:09:14 There's that GCC-specific option for it. 19:09:31 fizzie: Is there? 19:09:36 It corresponds to "-MT $@" 19:09:39 hmm, new entry for "list of unreasonably difficult tasks for a PhD student": discovering exactly what page of a conference proceedings you don't have your paper starts on 19:09:46 Or -MT $(objdir)/$*.d in useful.make terms. 19:09:48 in fact, just discovering the name of the conference proceedings can be quite hard 19:09:53 fizzie: Heh, I already use -MT $(@:.d=.o) right now. 19:10:09 I'll leave your ugley script in. 19:10:24 It's picked from the GNU make manual. 19:10:44 But you could change it to "-MT $(@:.d=.o) -MT $@" if you're using the MT flag in any case. 19:11:03 Are you putting the Windows build in the same Makefile as the "sensible" build? 19:12:09 Phantom_Hoover, down? 19:12:28 Yes. 19:14:02 fizzie: No. 19:14:13 fizzie: I'm making Makefile.common, Makefile.win32, Makefile.posix. 19:14:27 fizzie: And then probably making Makefile just include Makefile.posix, unless there's a snazzy detect-win32 thing in make. 19:14:28 Or mingw. 19:14:32 What does mingw's uname output? 19:14:42 I don't know, I just cross-build it. 19:18:03 elliott, I wish Slate had up-to-date thorough documentation 19:18:27 Which, at least, is better than Atomo's ... complete-looking, but secretly lacking, documentation 19:19:56 fizzie: So win32 actually has no input facilities, right? 19:20:13 There are the console functions. 19:20:23 But currently it doesn't have any, if that's what you meant. 19:30:28 -!- TLUL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:01 -!- TLUL has joined. 19:31:30 also, it seems that LyX's "integrated version control" is in fact RCS 19:31:36 I'm not sure how to react, or how Vorpal will react 19:36:56 ais523: It only uses RCS by default if it doesn't smell some other version control repository in the directory you've saved the file in. 19:37:08 ais523: It does CVS and Subversion if it sees files related to those. 19:37:55 I don't think it does any other systems yet, though. 19:38:30 elliott: chopping down trees form the comfort of my boat: If only I could get a workbench on it! 19:39:15 Gah, that Minecraft protocol is ad-hoc. The format for packet 0x35 ("place a block") starts as "int, byte, int" (X, Y, Z) coordinates. For packet 0x36 ("play a note block") the first three fields are "int, short, int" (also X, Y, Z). And there are quite many packets that start with "int, int, int" (X, Y, Z). 19:51:01 Going to start watching DS9 again 19:55:15 Finally I found some iron (and clay!) 19:58:41 "we're looking to compile at a rate very close to 100,000 lines of source code per second" 19:58:53 seriously. What the hell is going on in "industry"? 20:00:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:00:15 Do you like anarchy golf? 20:00:35 no, it makes me feel stupid. I cna't do any of them 20:01:40 j-invariant: I can give a lot of hints. I know a lot of tricks that can be used. Each programming language usable has its own challenge. 20:03:41 Such as, Objective-C is a strict superset of C, so any solution in C should also be acceptable as a Objective-C code. 20:03:53 ineiros, may I please request a chunk revert? 20:04:06 elliott has caused massive damage to the summit of Mt. Hoover. 20:04:13 Accidentally! 20:04:20 And in an agreement of war, no less. 20:04:24 Drrrrrama! 20:05:04 elliott, you either recreate the entire terrain from scratch or you help me get ineiros to give me a revert. 20:05:12 He'll revert it anyway. 20:05:17 What happened? 20:05:22 Why, exactly, were you placing that much TNT near the summit? 20:05:31 LOL 20:05:31 Phantom_Hoover: We _agreed to war_. 20:05:41 I guess elliott blew up Mt. Hoover 20:05:43 War, as in, war where people die. 20:05:47 elliott, please stop acting like this is a joke. 20:05:47 Also, does more TNT cause a bigger explosion? 20:05:56 Minecraft: Serious Business 20:06:00 I made a comment in jest. 20:06:03 Phantom_Hoover: A chunk revert takes two seconds, and I'm not acting like this is a joke, and for once Sgeo is right. 20:06:15 -!- zzo38 has left (?). 20:06:17 I consulted you on the matter of war for a reason and you agreed. 20:06:26 elliott, what? No, you didn't. 20:06:41 Vorpal, you have chat logs on your terminal 20:06:51 On IRC. 20:07:15 fizzie: Anyway, the portability work is almost done. 20:07:27 Phantom_Hoover, yes 20:07:32 Phantom_Hoover, want them? 20:07:38 I need the strongest posible armor 20:07:42 Phantom_Hoover, will take a minute or so to sprunge 20:07:44 i have some iron ore (not much) 20:08:02 j-invariant: diamond 20:08:11 im not sure where to find dioamonad 20:08:16 Phantom_Hoover, dumped in a file. 20:08:18 fizzie: does -O3 break windows? 20:08:36 Probably not. 20:08:39 Haven't tried, though. 20:08:52 Phantom_Hoover, I have saved them to a file 20:09:44 Phantom_Hoover, hm? 20:11:15 oh no ping reply from PH. I guess that is it 20:11:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:11:40 yep 20:16:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:16:43 My parents have confiscated my laptop because I'm "addicted" and I'm doing it in favour of homework I don't have.] 20:16:59 Heh: # renamed: console.c -> posix.c 20:17:10 Phantom_Hoover: Permanently? :p 20:17:31 elliott: apparently it's "for tonight"/ 20:17:48 Hate to ask the obvious question but what are you IRCing from :P 20:17:50 I have to demonstrate that I'm not addicted by doing something else, or something like that. 20:18:00 Family Mac, which is in the study. 20:18:29 Can't be long until they find me on this as well and force me off it. 20:18:41 fizzie: Pushed the portability stuff, probably broke Windows builds. 20:18:46 Probably broke POSIX builds come to think of it, but whatever. 20:18:56 They are incapable of grasping that addiction is not the same as being annoyed when you are forced off it in the middle of doing something. 20:19:31 Phantom_Hoover: As a revolutionary, while opposed to you, I am also naturally opposed to all forms of authority, and so death to parents and etc.! But if you will excuse me, I must go and blow shit up. 20:19:35 -!- Behold has joined. 20:19:40 (I, on the other hand, am quite clearly addictd ^) 20:19:42 *addicted 20:21:28 That's an interesting "clean" sequence: 20:21:30 $ make clean 20:21:30 mkdir build 20:21:30 rm -f build/mcmap build/posix.o build/cmd.o build/console.o build/main.o build/map.o build/nbt.o build/protocol.o build/world.o build/posix.d build/cmd.d build/console.d build/main.d build/map.d build/nbt.d build/protocol.d build/world.d 20:21:30 rmdir build; true 20:21:37 where is my intel manual for compiler writers 20:22:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:22:18 fizzie: Yes, it generates all the dependencies. 20:22:25 fizzie: useful.make hardcoded around this, but it was rather dumb. 20:22:30 fizzie: For instance, "make clean all" broke. 20:22:32 fizzie: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40327 20:23:11 fizzie: Of course, if you're cleaning without building in the first place, you're silly anyway. (You'll want to rm -rf _build and _debug, probably.) 20:23:19 Phantom_Hoover: "The name is quite stupid", like they say. :p 20:23:50 ineiros: anyway, how about that chunk update? 20:23:57 Er, *revert. 20:23:58 fizzie: Would you believe it, it actually works 20:24:04 Well, ostensibly. 20:24:28 $ make -f Makefile.win32 20:24:28 In file included from platform.h:5, 20:24:28 from common.h:4, 20:24:28 from world.c:13: 20:24:28 posix.h:6:19: error: netdb.h: No such file or directory 20:24:35 fizzie: What. 20:24:36 Preprocessor == compares values, not strings. 20:24:49 fizzie: Oh, in-deed. I thought that was the case but forgot. 20:24:52 Both "posix" and "win32" have the value 0 if you don't define them to something. 20:25:00 fizzie: I Can Fix That. 20:25:54 down... 20:26:37 fizzie: Come to think of it, I'll just make it -DPLATFORM_POSIX vs. -DPLATFORM_WIN32. 20:27:03 Or you could use the guaranteed-to-be-defined-on-all-win32-builds WIN32. :p 20:27:16 But that's less generic! What if you port it to Classic Mac OS? 20:27:27 Then you don't test against it. 20:27:41 Wouldn't you rather have to? 20:27:46 Oh, I see what you mean. 20:27:49 But that's a SPECIAL CASE. 20:27:57 Well, okay. 20:28:08 Pushin' a fix. 20:29:46 fizzie: http://www.spieleplanet.eu/get/mcmap-gui.png <-- is *your* launcher this ugly? 20:30:20 fizzie, what is this launcher of yours? 20:30:22 It's a lot smaller. 20:30:31 Approximately equally ugly, though. 20:30:34 Vorpal: It launches nuclear warheads. 20:30:49 Vorpal: I added a small launcher dialog in the Win32 build that's shown if you don't include any command-line arguments. 20:30:54 fizzie, ah 20:31:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:32:15 lawl 20:32:44 -!- cheater00 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:32:58 Pushed a three-line patch to fix the Windows builds. 20:33:00 2 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-) 20:33:15 Well, maybe it could be considered a four-line patch in some sense. 20:34:27 The link step needs $(objs) $(LDFLAGS) as opposed to $(LDFLAGS) $(objs), because otherwise it won't pick up the referred-to symbols from the DLL link stub libraries. (It only collects symbols that are used.) 20:36:35 -!- cheater00 has joined. 20:37:16 elliott: I like the checkbox for "render the hell dimension" 20:41:23 Also pushed a Perl script that takes a protocol.txt and writes the ugly parts of packet-format structures from that. Got tired of updating three different places whenever the protocol changes. 20:41:40 (Didn't add that as a build step though, since conceivably someone might want to build on Windows without Perl. 20:45:07 olsner: heh 20:45:31 fizzie: But doesn't that -Wl thing need to come before iojdofgjsodigjhfgsihjfkglhjlfkdh? 20:45:32 Before... 20:45:34 Yeah, the files? 20:45:38 Because you had it like that in the Makefile. 20:45:52 Probably not. I don't really know. At least it builds. :p 20:46:16 notch talks on http://www.livestream.com/coesquest 20:46:22 to some guyis playing his game 20:46:31 j-invariant: notch is the worst 20:46:37 THE WORST 20:47:21 * Sgeo wonders if Phantom_Hoover should destroy the remaining stocks of TNT 20:48:20 over 3000 people lol 20:49:28 just because he is there 20:49:58 :( 20:50:03 GODDAMMIT MINECRAFT 20:50:17 j-invariant: PRAISE THE GLORIOUS NOTCH 20:51:49 Vorpal: fizzie: "4815162342 lines of code!" That would explain a lot.. 20:51:51 *lot. 20:53:00 -!- trinithis has joined. 20:53:32 fizzie: Congratulations on your DSL (the .txt) 20:54:02 fizzie: You should probably add a rule to update protocol-data.{c,h}. 20:54:05 To Makefile.commo. 20:54:08 *common. 20:54:41 Yes, probably; I didn't want to make the build actually-depend on Perl, but OTOH it doesn't if those files do exist in the repo. 20:54:52 "It is possible to interact with the environment while riding a cart, such as shooting a bow at enemies or laying down track in front of the minecart while it is moving." 20:54:54 Hmm 20:55:04 That sounds like it could be... useful for long journeys 20:55:05 ^cat coppro: i like how much the minecraft talk bothers you 20:55:05 coppro: i like how much the minecraft talk bothers you 20:55:12 (I know fungot's inner desires.) 20:55:12 elliott: i have gotten a test binary file. 20:55:32 elliott are you now speaking to me through fungot? 20:55:32 coppro: i... just another instance of unix is no longer useable as a snarcstation-2. but these days? so what happened, and hardware manufacturers said the name of the 20:55:42 "When riding a falling minecart, landing will deal no damage." 20:55:54 ^cat Stop accusing elliott of things, I'm a real human being who' sa bot. 20:55:54 Stop accusing elliott of things, I'm a real human being who' sa bot. 20:56:00 That sounds like an easy way to get down from high heights 20:56:01 ^cat *who's a. I even make mistakes! 20:56:01 *who's a. I even make mistakes! 20:56:04 coppro, yes, yes he is 20:56:10 sigh 20:56:20 A+ for creativity 20:56:43 ^cat Of course, this means Sgeo can impersonate elliott within coppro's mind 20:56:44 Of course, this means Sgeo can impersonate elliott within coppro's mind 20:57:01 except I can see Sgeo issue the command 20:57:03 ^cat dfjghdfgkjljsdfzl;dfkjgophs94gsozf\dzf 20:57:03 dfjghdfgkjljsdfzl;dfkjgophs94gsozf\dzf 20:57:08 ..Oh right 20:57:13 ^cat MY BRAIN IS A WALRUS 20:57:13 MY BRAIN IS A WALRUS 20:57:20 fizzie: I think fungot is having a nervous breakdown. 20:57:20 elliott: the other hand, given the poor are terribly poor and the program. 20:58:35 Apparently, mipmapping is forcing the volume to 0 or something... 20:59:06 "Changing volume when music and sound are both off crashes Minecraft" 20:59:09 NOTCH QUALITY ENGINEERING 20:59:41 How to catch chickens: Use a fishing rod to pull them into a cactus 20:59:55 j-invariant: X-D 21:03:25 uh 21:04:04 Is it worth using powered minecarts? 21:04:32 English guys: how does a name "cardernet" (for an internet service) sounds to you? 21:05:09 nooga: a bit cheesey 21:05:27 yeah 21:05:30 i thought so 21:05:33 j-invariant: approve 21:05:57 i'd rather name it cardsnet or something like that 21:06:09 because AFAIK carder is something weird 21:06:55 paulscode.sound.SoundSystemException: The specified class does not implement interface 'ICodec' in method 'setCodec' 21:06:55 at paulscode.sound.SoundSystemConfig.setCodec(SourceFile:584) 21:06:55 at sg.d(SourceFile:47) 21:06:55 at sg.a(SourceFile:31) 21:06:56 at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.a(SourceFile:331) 21:06:58 at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.run(SourceFile:643) 21:07:00 at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:636) 21:07:02 error linking with the LibraryJavaSound plug-in 21:07:04 Sgeo: No. 21:07:13 hahah the water in minecraft is not confluent 21:07:26 j-invariant: wat 21:08:47 the way it flows is dependent on the order in which its path is cleared 21:08:48 Might Minecart boosters eventually be nerfed? 21:08:51 sound is so boooorken for me :( 21:08:52 Sgeo: yes 21:08:55 j-invariant: indeed 21:08:59 elliott: The current system seems to have bit of a rebuild problem: http://p.zem.fi/fkwv -- based on make -d at http://p.zem.fi/7nwt it's because you depend on the build directory, and that is always newer because any file-change inside there will update its timestamp. 21:09:10 How much stuff will break? 21:09:20 Sgeo: Everything. 21:09:23 And will powered minecarts then become useful? 21:09:31 fizzie: Oh for chrissakes. Change the dependency on $(objdir) to | $(objdir). 21:09:32 Sgeo: Ask Notch. 21:10:07 fizzie: That will fix it. 21:10:12 Yes, it seems to. 21:11:21 "You can also ride "them" and they'll move nearly forever if there is no dead end. It also moves slower off track and can move through water. 21:11:21 " 21:11:22 Ooh 21:11:33 The word confluent comes from the behavior of water 21:12:38 wait how dum 21:12:49 what a dumb way for water to work 21:13:40 Sgeo: Eh? 21:13:47 Oh, right. 21:13:50 The really buggy ones 21:13:52 *ones. 21:14:02 fizzie: Have you had any audio issues? 21:15:19 fizzie: Shall I add the auto-update of the protocol-data files to the build system? It'll only trigger when the files are out of date, obviously. 21:17:24 I haven't played Minecraft with sound more than once or so. 21:17:27 fizzie, I heard the "ouch" but saw nothing that could hurt you 21:17:30 You can. I was going to, but forgot. 21:17:36 Vorpal: Fell down the stairs. :p 21:17:38 fizzie, ah 21:18:15 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecart_booster#Double_Booster 21:18:18 fizzie: Pushing. 21:18:36 fizzie, what were you going to screenshot? 21:18:40 Sgeo: Yeah, that _will_ be fixed. It's a crazy bug. 21:18:46 -!- trinithis has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:18:56 Anyway, here's what I got when I tried to add "show block light levels in surface map for nice night-time look" in mcmap: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-lights.png 21:18:59 That's not quite it. 21:19:12 fizzie, hah 21:19:15 fizzie: I WANT TO MAKE AN ALBUM JUST SO I CAN USE THAT AS THE COVER. 21:19:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:19:39 I have made a list of some hints for anarchy golf gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0phlog*c_golf.anagol-tricks 21:19:40 I think boosters period are a crazy bug 21:19:46 Sgeo: But a useful one. 21:19:49 fizzie: SRSLY THAT IS AWESOME 21:20:01 fizzie, found out anything about the corruption bug btw? 21:20:49 Not yet either. I should really take a look at some point. 21:20:58 Item duplication glitches are useful bugs 21:21:33 elliott: http://i.imgur.com/moAMH.png 21:21:38 I can't stop staring at http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-lights.png 21:21:40 It's so pretty 21:21:45 free string every time I spend the night in my house 21:21:55 j-invariant: great :) 21:22:08 works well because I can get fish with it 21:22:08 j-invariant: add some logs on fire there, hehehe 21:22:12 j-invariant: have you built a portal to the Nether yet? 21:22:19 elliott: no I don't have any obsidian :( 21:22:27 I just found clay and iron for the fisrst time today thoug 21:22:29 j-invariant: you want buckets of lava and water, to build it in-place 21:22:37 that way you don't have to mine it either 21:22:44 oh yeah I do know where there is some lava 21:22:47 j-invariant: If it has taken this long for you to find iron you are doing something very wrong :) 21:22:48 j-invariant: string is useless though 21:22:51 To make a bucket you need iron 21:22:55 oklopol: I can make a fishing rod with it 21:23:07 j-invariant: also, wow, you really need to play at a higher resolution :P 21:23:16 you use 5 of it in the whole game 21:23:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:23:44 fizzie: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-lights.png has PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL in it, I am disgusted. 21:23:48 Phantom_Hoover: Found ANOTHER computer? 21:24:04 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File:Quarry_1.png 21:24:11 ineiros, I really, *really* need that revert. 21:24:12 * Sgeo wants to make a swimming pool that size 21:24:48 The damage is effectively irreparable. 21:25:19 How do you do squares in the gimp? :p 21:25:31 Cobblestone factory + tree farm = plenty of smooth stone 21:25:48 Sgeo: Cobblestone factory = useless. 21:25:52 It is 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x faster to mine. 21:26:00 Sgeo, do you have any idea of the rate of production in a cobble factory? 21:26:01 elliott: Second attempt: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-lights2.png 21:26:17 that's nice 21:26:17 fizzie: That's the cover to the accompanying EP. 21:26:24 is it correct? 21:26:26 fizzie: Can you save the version that generated mcmap-lights.png? 21:26:28 Literally the only place it would be useful would be in the Nether. 21:26:28 I really wanna use it :p 21:26:30 *it. :p 21:26:34 Phantom_Hoover, can't be lower than mining, right? 21:26:41 Sgeo, it's *far* lower. 21:26:45 How? 21:26:54 "a block a second" lower. 21:26:57 Sgeo: Because the cobble don't regenerate instantly. 21:26:59 elliott: I already messed it up. :/ 21:27:10 If the cobble magically reappeared AS SOON as you finished mining (not even a ms delay) it would be as fast. 21:27:17 But it takes like a second. 21:27:19 fizzie: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-lights.png has PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL in it, I am disgusted. // worst - porn -e ver 21:27:21 *- ever 21:27:33 Mining isn't as safe 21:27:38 Gregor: I'm trying to highlight the pornographic material now :P 21:27:50 Sgeo: Yes... it is. 21:27:57 If you do a corridor, it's completely safe and you get iron and coal too. 21:28:29 It's not as ecological 21:28:30 >.> 21:28:31 Phantom_Hoover, do it chunk-wise then 21:28:39 You'll run out eventually 21:28:48 And have to walk a distance to find more 21:28:52 Phantom_Hoover, I made some cool stuff such as a note based warning system when someone enters my place 21:29:12 Vorpal, note? 21:29:14 Vorpal, do what chunk-wise? 21:29:20 Phantom_Hoover, the revert 21:29:22 Sgeo: "Run out"? Not underground. 21:29:30 And the world is fucking infinite, there is nothing to conserve. 21:29:33 Vorpal, you mean list the chunks necessary? 21:29:40 Phantom_Hoover, yeah. 21:29:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: This means war!!). 21:29:45 Vorpal, how? 21:29:55 Phantom_Hoover, well the worldedit plugin for bukkit could do it 21:29:56 Sure, the world is infinite, but if you run out in a fixed area, you have to leave that area 21:30:19 Sgeo, for a very short time while you get cobble. 21:30:21 Phantom_Hoover, wait, dump with mcmap. then figure out the file names 21:30:23 HOW DO YOU DRAW A SQUARE WITH THE GIMP 21:30:31 Sgeo: Wrong. 21:30:35 Phantom_Hoover, I assume they would be the same for mcmap and for the server 21:30:35 Sgeo: The underground extends forever. 21:30:37 relative the world dir 21:30:52 You'll *already* have more cobble than you need from mining. 21:31:04 Vorpal, I doubt it. 21:31:15 elliott: Usually I just select a rectangle, then select->border, then fill that. 21:31:15 mcmap has absolutely no idea what the server calls the chunks. 21:31:36 HOW DO YOU DRAW A SQUARE WITH THE GIMP <-- make a rectangle selection, shift or ctrl or something to ensure all sides equally long 21:31:43 Phantom_Hoover: The file names are just base36-encoded integers of the chunk position. 21:31:47 Phantom_Hoover, isn't it determnistic from the coords? 21:31:55 fizzie, oh? 21:33:27 fizzie: Gregor: PROOF OF EVIL PORNOGRAPHY: http://i.imgur.com/c37jR.png 21:34:13 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. The path for chunk at (X,Z) is "%s/%s/c.%s.%s.dat", base36(X&63), base36(Z&63), base36(X), base36(Z). 21:34:20 elliott, ...what. 21:34:43 If you need me to colour it according to how an EVIL PORNOGRAPHIST would, I can do that too, but I figured I'd rely on your OWN EYES. 21:35:13 elliott, is it Cthulhu's secret porn stash? 21:35:23 Yes. 21:35:35 You ... must have an extremely dirty mind to see anything in that :P 21:35:38 (With a base36 digit set of "0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz".) 21:36:50 Gregor: Obviously the woman on the right is screaming in horror at what a horrible picture she is in, while wearing a necklace with a Christian cross on it, and apparently with no neck separating her face and breasts. IT'S OBVIOUS! 21:37:01 YOU'RE the pervert! 21:37:05 Maybe YOU'RE Cthulhu. 21:37:35 And ... a parrot on her shoulder? 21:37:39 Is smelting with lava ever worth it? 21:38:18 Gregor: That's clearly a tentacle. 21:38:21 Sgeo: No. 21:38:26 elliott: Oh dear. 21:38:38 Gregor: SEE? 21:39:08 j-invariant: Here's incentive to play at a higher resolution: http://ompldr.org/vNzBuNg 21:41:14 elliott, does 2 TNT next to eachother make more of an explosion than 1? 21:41:22 Yes. Obviously. 21:41:46 Can that be used to explode past obsidian, or is it just size of explosion? 21:42:04 You would need a LOT of TNT to explode obsidian. 21:42:20 But it's theoretically doable? 21:42:41 How much TNT would you need to explode past water? 21:42:41 It'd probably crash the game well before you ever got past TNT. 21:42:43 elliott: I think that's bigger than my maximum res :S 21:42:44 *past obsidian. 21:42:46 Sgeo: Infinite. 21:42:51 j-invariant: just press F11 :P 21:42:58 elliott: BTW, turns out my security system isn't completely watertight http://i.imgur.com/dUR5V.png 21:42:59 elliott, water is literally unbreakable? 21:43:01 might take pressing it thrice, if it doesn't get rid of your top/bottom panels 21:43:06 Sgeo: yes. 21:43:08 I think. 21:43:23 j-invariant: yikes 21:43:29 j-invariant: did it come down? 21:43:35 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Explosion#Block_Resistance has smaller numbers for water than obsidian, but I really don't know how those are calculated. 21:43:36 According to http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Explosion#Block_Resistance, water has a lower resistance than obsidian 21:43:38 haha it can't come down but I can't go up either 21:43:41 Oh 21:43:46 n/m the oh 21:43:49 Sgeo: Underwater explosions are a different thing, though. 21:44:01 I wasnt asking about underwater explosions 21:44:14 I wanted to know how well a wall of stationary water would hold up 21:44:30 ah. 21:46:26 What... was the point of Notch programming in the spring duplication? 21:47:45 elliott: Do people actually eat weetabix? 21:47:47 Spring duplication? 21:47:53 Gregor: Yes. It's nice. 21:47:56 Phantom_Hoover, the way water behaves 21:48:19 Sgeo, there's a certain maximum damage a single TNT block can deal. 21:48:33 Phantom_Hoover, with more TNT, can more damage be delt? 21:48:47 Sgeo, I don't think so. 21:49:06 isn't it additive if exploding exactly at the same time 21:49:07 So elliott's wrong then. Ok 21:49:12 The explosion algorithm is insane, and I think it's the reason TNT is woefully resource-heavy. 21:49:14 I thought that was how TNT cannons worked 21:49:21 Phantom_Hoover, they have been rewritten in 1.2 21:49:22 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Weetabix.jpg <-- this looks like something you'd be served as an indentured slave to the military. 21:50:23 Phantom_Hoover: Optimine stops TNT lagging things. 21:50:27 So not really. 21:50:37 Gregor: That picture is awful. 21:50:37 Optimine? 21:50:42 Gregor: Also what, you soak them in milk. 21:50:52 Gregor: They... really don't look like that :P 21:51:02 Gregor: With some sugar and soaked in milk it's actually really tasty. 21:51:16 Gregor: It isn't hard or anything, when milk'd. 21:51:17 My hatred for milk makes that even worse :P 21:51:26 Gregor: Oh... well you're just weird then. 21:51:32 Srsly, it's nice :P 21:51:51 Minepedia explains the block-destroying process reasonably well, but not the interaction of multiple TNT blocks, except by noting that other TNT blocks may ignite from the explosion; it doesn't mention at which point it resets the damage-to-blocks counters. 21:51:56 Gregor, use then. 21:52:05 Coca-Cola? 21:52:09 Yes. 21:52:12 fizzie, that article is on block interactions, isn't it? 21:52:12 Weetabix in coca-cola. 21:52:20 Not entities, which is what lit TNT is. 21:52:34 "The only dangers that a quarry presents are death from falling into the pit, death from hitting a magma flow, or by falling into a cavern due to recklessness and getting killed by a mob underground." 21:52:42 LIES! You could also die of boredom 21:53:50 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/index.php?title=Template:Blocks&diff=40037&oldid=39916 How annoying. 21:54:01 Sgeo, or from spiders getting into the pit. 21:54:13 Phantom_Hoover: Well yes, though it has an "interactions with entities" paragraph too, but that's just about how creatures and players get damage. 21:54:17 elliott: If you dipped it in chocolate, I could see it being food. 21:54:23 i.e. the dangers presented by mining plus one more. 21:54:35 Gregor: Sure :-P 21:55:06 There is a very confusing sentence about high-resistance blocks: "The minimum block resistance required to absorb maximum blast force of TNT explosion (with at least attenuation of 2 steps) is 77.67, 63.5 of creeper explosion, 20.17 of fireball explosion. So water, stationary lava, obsidian, and bedrock are always indestructible, and furnaces and less resistant blocks can be destroyed by fireballs." 21:55:13 I don't really know what they mean by that. 21:55:48 I guess "with at least attenuation of 2 steps" means that it takes 2 steps to get out of the TNT block itself. 21:57:40 I'm just thinking that bomb shelters made out of water are more economical than those made of obsidian 21:57:53 ais523: ping 21:58:26 -!- variable has quit (Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram). 21:58:47 Sgeo, an interesting result of TNT resistance is that the Cube would be extremely resistant to single-floor TNT detonations. 21:59:52 -!- variable has joined. 22:00:05 ..? o.O? 22:00:39 Sgeo, it would destroy the floor and ceiling of the level it was on (near the blast zone, at least). 22:00:46 But the damage would stop there. 22:02:01 What's the Cube made of? Also I don't know what it is, but I guess vertically it alternates block air block air? 22:02:55 It has lava between the floors for lighting. 22:03:23 can the cube fly 22:04:09 no 22:04:12 Sgeo, it's glass with lava sandwiched between things like fizzie said. 22:04:31 Mmmm, lava sandwiches. 22:04:31 lighting? 22:04:39 But there's no air to move around in? 22:04:51 Wait 22:05:09 glass lava glass air air repeat? 22:05:13 Yes. 22:05:19 Awesome 22:05:59 I'd like to see pictures 22:06:27 Sgeo, then buy MC and get to doing drudge work on it. 22:06:50 The Cube site is going to be a deathtrap now that health is on... 22:06:52 You can't just show me a screenshot? 22:07:11 Wait, it doesn't exist yet? 22:07:17 No. 22:07:44 I assume there is easy access to a lava lake near the site? 22:07:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:18 Sgeo, there is not. 22:08:32 We used to have renewable lava, but server-side inventory broke it. 22:08:58 Now we sit and wait for Bukkit to be released and then bug ineiros for a lava kit and a chunk revert on Mt. Hoover. 22:09:12 Or just abandon the site 22:09:16 Find a lava lake 22:09:29 Or minecart system between current site and lava lake 22:09:31 fizzie: mcmap is a lot shorter than I thought: 22:09:35 Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): 22:09:36 ansic: 2609 (89.20%) 22:09:36 sh: 242 (8.27%) 22:09:36 perl: 74 (2.53%) 22:09:36 Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 2,925 22:09:41 Sgeo: Abandon the site that's had so much work done on it? I think not. 22:09:44 Sgeo: Besides, one lava lake is NOT enough. 22:09:50 Sgeo: We need 16 thousand lava blocks per floor. 22:10:05 Minecart system it is 22:10:37 Also, 4000x4000? Why? 22:10:39 Wait 22:10:50 400x400 22:11:07 How much does a single lake hold? 22:11:16 Sgeo, it depends on the lake. 22:11:28 "Not enough" is invariably going to be the answer, though. 22:11:41 Well, can you estimate how many lakes you need per floor? 22:11:56 Sgeo: 400x400? 22:12:01 It's 128x128. 22:12:32 126x126 (accounting for the edge) = 15,876. 22:12:41 Sgeo: Far, far too many. Lakes are incredibly rare. 22:12:42 And small. 22:12:43 Well. 22:12:44 Not so rare. 22:12:49 But we'd have to basically go down to bedrock EVERYWHERE. 22:13:27 Wait for update in which portals work in SMP? 22:14:02 Sgeo, AKA never. 22:14:15 Sgeo: That's not going to happen. 22:15:33 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:19:59 How far away can a ditch be before it doesn't influence where water flows? 22:25:28 Sgeo: That's not going to happen. <-- oh? 22:25:48 Sgeo, check wiki? Page on fluids iirc 22:25:52 Portals are going to go to another server, apparently, but definitely never the Nether. 22:25:53 I forgot exact count 22:26:05 elliott, the point was that the other server could hold nether. 22:26:10 elliott, so one admin would run two servers 22:26:22 elliott, and let portals work between them 22:26:28 Vorpal: That requires running two servers. 22:26:33 elliott, indeed 22:26:35 Which is impractical. 22:26:36 For most people. 22:26:38 yep 22:26:52 elliott, reddit minecraft server could probably manage that 22:27:00 doubt they would want to 22:27:07 They already run TWO servers :P 22:27:10 elliott, oh? 22:27:16 elliott, creative/survival? 22:27:56 elliott, and what happened to that server after hmod was gone (didn't they use hmod?) 22:29:05 Vorpal: I think some of the "big" servers are using their own hMod development builds. 22:29:13 Also, yes, creatie/survival. 22:29:17 *creative/ 22:29:24 Hmm. 22:29:26 http://nerd.nu/ 22:29:31 Or they're just downgraded. 22:29:35 And also have an additional beta server. 22:29:40 What is that texture pack I wonder. 22:30:10 elliott, looks HD 22:30:17 It looks quite nice, like Painterly HD. 22:30:51 elliott, boring: http://redditpublic.com/wiki/Rules#Creative 22:30:59 okay a few make sense 22:31:01 but a lot does not 22:31:02 Vorpal: Looks like the creative server is running Bukkit. 22:31:08 Some sekrit build, presumably. 22:31:14 Vorpal: Redstone ore????? 22:31:20 elliott, I have no idea 22:31:20 Vorpal: I can understand water and shit, even if it is stupid. 22:31:23 But REDSTONE ORE??? 22:31:29 FISHING ROD? 22:35:11 Flowing lava is banned in Survival, stationary lava isn't/ 22:40:54 -!- sftp has joined. 22:44:35 And now, classic poetry ala moron ala Gregor: 22:44:36 The bird flew. 22:44:37 Why cant they stop, 22:44:37 the bird flew. 22:44:37 If they hav a cewre for canser, 22:44:38 they should be able to stop a simple, 22:44:40 flew. 22:45:00 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:45:07 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:45:13 -!- elliott has joined. 22:56:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Exasperated). 22:58:45 fizzie: Should .d files go in build/ even for debug builds, since they're common to both? 23:00:24 the dependencies will depend on the macros that are defined though, so that's not guaranteed to be safe :) 23:01:15 well... it'll be "safe" but not necessarily correct 23:01:47 olsner: oh, you are right, it'll have $platform.{c,h} deps 23:01:54 so we can't really do that without forcing both in or whatever 23:01:56 meh 23:02:31 olsner: there needs to be a build system that considers make variables (including cflags) as dependencies :) 23:02:34 and, uh, oh so much more 23:02:34 oh well 23:02:35 ghc --make 23:02:37 problem solved 23:02:48 right :) 23:05:04 olsner: actually such dependency tracking should probably go in the OS ... 23:05:13 strace can work for a lot of things, fabricate uses that, but it's imperfect 23:05:32 olsner: again a case of forcing things to go at a higher level of abstraction allowing greater system integration :P 23:08:29 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:52 -!- Gregor has set topic: MOTHERFUCKING WEETABIX TASTE LIKE CARDBOARD | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MOTHERFUCKING MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | WEETABIX, FUCKING WEETABIX | The Weetabix company would like to deny the claim that Weetabix tastes like cardboard. Having sampled a wide var. 23:26:58 D'awwwww 23:27:47 -!- Gregor has set topic: WEETABIX TASTE LIKE CARDBOARD | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | FUCKING WEETABIX | The Weetabix company denies the claim that Weetabix tastes like cardboard. Having sampled a wide variety of cardboard, the vast majority are not any m. 23:28:19 -!- Gregor has set topic: WEETABIX TASTE LIKE CARDBOARD | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | FUCKING WEETABIX | The Weetabix company denies the claim that Weetabix tastes like cardboard. Our fine natural additives completely eliminate cardboard flavor.. 23:28:36 "Weetabix tastes like cardboard" is possibly the first thing Americans ever said, so shut your face. 23:28:47 -!- elliott has set topic: MOTHER | FUCKING | WEETABIX | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 23:29:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: ELLIOTT'S MOTHER IS | FUCKING | WEETABIX | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 23:30:12 -!- Weetabix has joined. 23:30:22 elliott, I AM YOUR FATHER 23:30:40 -!- elliott has set topic: Beet a wix | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 23:30:43 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 23:30:57 every time i read weetabix i think of Mr. Bix from the redmeat comic book 23:31:16 -!- Gregor has set topic: Beet a wix | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | elliott denies claim of wheat-based parentage. More at 11.. 23:31:19 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:31:46 -!- Weetabix has quit (Client Quit). 23:31:53 I'll beet YOUR wixed parentage. 23:35:17 I tried a weetabix once... I threw it up. 23:36:21 maybe because it was 3 months old 23:39:11 ....did I have a dream about using Linux Mint? 23:39:12 * Sgeo WTFs 23:44:45 what should I do next? 23:44:48 I have a coulple hours 23:49:25 minecraft 23:50:35 :t forM 23:50:36 forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m [b] 23:50:36 j-invariant: yep! 23:50:53 :t mapM 23:50:54 forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] 23:50:57 huh 23:51:22 So, not 3 or 4 lakes per floor, then? 23:51:30 I think that would have been survivable 23:52:28 elliott: I can't pick up lava in my bucket :/ 23:52:33 maybe because it's a waterfall 23:52:39 j-invariant: yeah you have to get a source block 23:52:47 Sgeo: what? 23:52:55 For the cube 23:54:26 do I need something special to mine gold/redstone? 23:54:43 Or because it had so many suspicious chemicals in it? 23:57:39 Ilari: ...? 23:58:03 j-invariant: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Redstone_(Ore) 23:58:05 j-invariant: iron or diamond pickaxe 23:58:15 j-invariant: same for gold 23:59:36 hmm, I wonder if I could make a web framework that's horrific as possible, to ensure that my prediction about Haskell comes true, while still not writing, you know, a *web framework*, because i'd feel awful 23:59:48 maybe if i make it out of category theory! 23:59:54 haha 23:59:59 yes, best idea ever