00:00:04 i'm not sure it's possible... maybe starting on the <-- yes it is 00:00:06 I told you how 00:00:07 duh 00:00:28 oklopol, you can tell him what I said. He is obviously /ignore-ing me. I don't know why 00:01:02 what exactly should i tell him? 00:01:11 http://image.bayimg.com/padlgaade.jpg 00:01:14 oklopol, that I told him how it is possible to do that :P 00:01:19 elliott, are you ignoring Vorpal? 00:01:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:01:44 Until XChat can be configured to ignore mentions of names I will have to do it mentally. 00:01:44 -!- pumpkin has joined. 00:01:51 I'll write a script to do it at some point. 00:01:59 LOL 00:02:02 how strange. Well if that is his style 00:02:11 elliott, Vorpal suggested sneaking over the edge 00:02:30 he will refuse to acknowledge this 00:02:33 Sgeo: I recommend not trying to evade ignores. 00:02:36 which will be utterly stupid 00:02:37 see 00:02:40 that is what I told you 00:02:49 how immature 00:02:53 Vorpal might note that that method is exactly what I said, however. 00:02:56 elliott: Vorpal suggested what Sgeo said, but you don't even need to have that, all we need is that you can remove the topmost dirt from piles close to you, if you have good visibility 00:03:03 Vorpal might note that that method is exactly what I said, however. <-- no 00:03:04 erm 00:03:05 it wasn't 00:03:11 oh of course you then can't remove the last one 00:03:16 you said " i'm not sure it's possible... maybe starting on the" after 00:04:16 "The Blue Creeper is a new variety of creeper that spawns in the dark just like normal creepers, but they have a much different behaviour pattern. Instead of puffing up, these creepers launch themselves into the air like a rocket! After that, they explode on impact with the ground, so get out of there!!!" 00:04:17 Oh, lovely. 00:04:19 Just what I need. 00:04:39 btw 00:04:44 but it's actually still possible with a slightly less powerful visibility (which i don't specify): you have AB and C on top of C, now add D next to A on another axis, remove B, then remove D, jump on C and remove A 00:04:49 I was able to hook a creeper on the fishing line to actually get him off my treehouse :P 00:04:56 j-invariant: :D 00:05:03 oklopol: start minecraft theory 00:05:35 Bloody piece of shit website 00:05:42 STOP BEING DOWN 00:06:20 It's back up? 00:06:22 o.O 00:06:47 j-invariant: http://twitter.com/pigworker/status/25835213661675520 00:06:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 00:07:02 And it's back down 00:07:07 * Sgeo stabs elliott angrily 00:07:12 What. 00:07:34 I'm just taking out my anger at this website on you 00:07:50 elliott is an awesome punching bag 00:08:04 indeed, but for the gormet punching experience may i recommend oklopol 00:08:09 *gourmet 00:08:10 mmmm 00:08:12 gourmet 00:08:34 i should probably eat some meat. and possibly some noodles. 00:08:43 how gourmet 00:09:11 yes, i have a binary scale from uninteresting to gourmet 00:10:41 it's actually a bit crazy that even if you have an infinite plane, there is actually no way to even get one block down from it 00:10:47 unless there already are blocks down 00:11:07 is there with some tool or something? 00:11:15 * Sgeo oohs at http://isup.me 00:11:16 sand doesn't help in this case 00:12:15 oklopol: If your spawn-point is on the plane, jump down, place blocks as you fall, die, respawn, go down. 00:12:29 I guess that doesn't quite count. 00:12:29 well sure, by using one life, you can lower the plane as much as you like 00:13:13 Sgeo: "oohs"? 00:13:18 you seriously haven't seen it before? 00:13:20 the whole plane, since if you have even one block under the plane, you can easily destroy the whole plane, and build another plane from that single block (ignoring the fact it's an infinite plane, but anyhow i think you can do it lazily) 00:13:29 elliott, I haven't seen the shortened domain before. 00:13:36 :/ 00:13:41 what the hell is impressive about that 00:13:44 Sgeo: ...you're oohing at a domain being slightly shorter. 00:13:49 Your... brain is... broken. 00:13:53 oklopol: Maybe if you ride a boat down you could (theoretically) place blocks as you fall in such a way that you'd be able to jump from the boat on to one of them. (I'm not sure how well you can jump from a falling boat, however.) 00:13:57 Your brain is completely and utterly not working correctly in any way whatsoever. 00:14:00 oh my god Sgeo, what the hell did you just do! please apologize 00:14:03 for once I actually agree with elliott 00:14:09 j-invariant: that hurts man, that hurts :D 00:14:10 oklopol: And then there was the water thing. 00:14:11 me too 00:14:28 oklopol, um? 00:14:32 Sgeo: ...you're oohing at a domain being slightly shorter. <-- "slightly"? 00:14:41 the one I remember is rather long 00:14:42 ohh right, make a waterfall, go down by boat, put some blocks, come up? 00:14:50 You can just swim down/up. 00:14:53 tru 00:15:19 so again, that's kind of trivial 00:15:22 oklopol: I don't suppose you could hang at the "bottom" of a ladder and place a continuation block below where the ladder ends? (Probably not.) 00:15:34 Seriously? Not having to type as much is not ooh worthy? 00:15:41 [Bookmarks are useless for me] 00:15:43 i want a problem that doesn't have an *effective* solution, like you'd need a bot and it'd take ages to do 00:15:52 fizzie: i don't know, was wondering 00:15:55 oklopol: Maybe if you ride a boat down you could (theoretically) place blocks as you fall in such a way that you'd be able to jump from the boat on to one of them. (I'm not sure how well you can jump from a falling boat, however.) <-- you can exit a falling boat. I don't think you can jump from one though. Never tried in single player since falling on a falling boat hurts (it falls slower than 00:15:55 you do except when you hit it and your vertical speed is reset to zero) 00:15:56 Sgeo: yes, it seriously is not 00:16:25 There's a certain elegance to the new domain name 00:16:25 Sgeo, elliott is wrong 00:16:37 Sgeo, though perhaps you did over-react a bit 00:16:46 but he is way too hard. I think he gone nuts recently 00:16:59 "recently" 00:16:59 ? 00:17:05 Sgeo, well more than usually 00:17:17 Sgeo, he has been nuts for a long time 00:17:21 but not this much 00:17:36 I'm pretty sure his reaction is typical of him 00:17:47 Sgeo, well true. But I meant in general 00:18:00 are there minecraft puzzles somewhere? 00:18:21 oklopol, that sounds interesting 00:18:23 a certain elegeance 00:18:25 *elegance 00:18:26 maybe you could do some stuff with resource limitations, dunno 00:18:26 honestly 00:18:27 oklopol, do you mean physical ones? 00:18:29 Sgeo: There's a domain (registered) called up.is, that could be made one of those is-it-up sites. 00:18:39 oklopol, or puzzles to solve in-game? 00:18:42 also if you're replying to Vorpal which I suspect, he's currently in his regular elliott whine mode 00:18:53 no I'm not 00:18:57 where he uses every situation as an opportunity to talk about how horrible i am, i doubt j-invariant and oklopol got the same treatment despite them agreeing 00:19:00 you are in going nuts mode 00:19:01 puzzles to solve in-game would necessarily be pretty trivial wouldn't they 00:19:04 but then Vorpal never was one for consistency, non-hypocrisy, logic, ... 00:19:13 oklopol: that's what ADVENTURE mode is going to be 00:19:16 no block placing which is just stupid 00:19:17 oh come on. You are not one for them either 00:19:32 well of course there has to be block placing and removing 00:19:51 otherwise obviously you can execute any puzzle as a computer program opening a door if the correct switches are used 00:20:06 BRB 00:20:24 or alternatively: that wouldn't really be a minecraft puzzle 00:21:01 Vorpal: in-game, sure, but in the sense that you are given extra rules 00:21:16 oklopol: Minecraft without block placement is like a farm without the wife walking on the granary path, you know. (I don't suppose the "talo ilman aitanpolulla astelevaa emäntää" thing is an international idiom.) 00:21:17 hmmhmm 00:21:27 could you build a trap that can't be destroyed easily without dying? 00:21:28 next time I'm setting up base somewhere isolated I am saving the coordinates 00:22:01 P.S. how the hell am I supposed to SEE the coordinates over that graph 00:22:09 Someone highlighted me. 00:22:14 that's a problem i have as well 00:22:23 j-invariant: get a better cpu 00:22:26 and it'll take up less of the graph :-) 00:22:39 Oh. Wow. 00:22:41 olsner: "ridiculous. ant/nant is already the ultimate build system." --actual person expressing actual, non-sarcastic opinion 00:22:50 Using a larger and/or a differently shaped window might also help. (I don't know if it scales the font size or not.) 00:22:52 OUTRAGE! 00:23:44 olsner: when someone said "but XML" they replied "well nant fixes that!" (paraphrased) 00:23:49 hmm, could you make something like a huge amount of arrow guns that shoot at you no matter which way you approach the thing? 00:24:04 oklopol: probably 00:24:13 from bedrock to clouds 00:24:20 you can go above clouds 00:24:20 shooting all the time 00:24:23 oklopol: you can place dispensers in any direction 00:24:26 shooting all the time? heh 00:24:27 the only remedy would be if nant stands for "not ant", but even in the negative starting with ant is the wrong way 00:24:32 that's just a constant redstone circuit 00:24:35 elliott: up as well? oh cool 00:24:45 kind of like how SVN wouldn't have been any better if it was "not cvs" instead of "better cvs" 00:24:48 olsner: nant = .NET ant 00:24:50 oklopol: er well doubtful 00:24:53 Is "nant" that Ant-like .net build tool? Because that's XML build files too. 00:25:02 maybe it just uses LESS XML! 00:25:05 oh you just meant in any nwes direction 00:25:05 oklopol: but if you build bedrock to top you can't go above anyway 00:25:06 well 00:25:10 you can climb to the top, but 00:25:16 that's basically unsolvable 00:25:21 even with arrows, you could climb to the top 00:25:22 http://nant.sourceforge.net/release/latest/help/fundamentals/buildfiles.html -- yeah, I'm sure that's very nice to anyone who hates XML. 00:25:23 and just jump over quickly 00:25:29 is it? what if you build a wall as you go 00:25:35 you'd get killed from the fall though 00:25:36 oklopol: eh? 00:25:40 we may assume a single arrow kills you 00:26:09 oklopol: are the cows in this model spherical? 00:26:10 elliott: like, dunno, somehow shield yourself from the arrows 00:26:21 great: "NAnt's build files are written in XML. Each build file contains one project and a number of targets. Each target contains a number of tasks." 00:26:21 if it makes the puzzle interesting, sure 00:26:22 oklopol: i think it's quite simple 00:26:32 that's *exactly what ant does* 00:26:44 oklopol: does the inside need to be guarded too? 00:26:52 i.e. do you want people inside to be shot 00:26:58 no 00:27:07 that's the goal, to get inside 00:27:08 maybe. 00:27:09 olsner: That's not surprising, given that it's designed to be "like Ant". 00:27:14 oklopol: build each wall with the arrows facing outwards 00:27:33 ? 00:27:38 oklopol: this misses diagonals, so if you approach from a diagonal, time it right, and put two dirt in front of you, you can shield 00:27:41 (btw i just realized you can just approach diagonally) 00:27:46 fizzie: according to some supporters nant fixes all the problems with using xml 00:27:46 well you might need two i think arrows go through one block with dispensers 00:27:50 oklopol: and then you just have to like 00:27:57 build one platform, place dirt over dispenser quickly 00:28:00 repeat until you get to the top 00:28:02 oklopol: alternatively 00:28:09 oklopol: start far enough away that the arrows don't reach you 00:28:09 maybe the trap sends minecarts shooting arrows by using zombies 00:28:11 build tower to level 128 00:28:13 erm 00:28:15 build dirt towards tower 00:28:16 step over 00:28:17 not zombies, skeletons 00:28:17 Do dispensers have any user other than weaponry? 00:28:18 fall to death 00:28:24 Sgeo: yes 00:28:31 Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RAjfNdZ0hw 00:28:55 elliott: you can be higher than highest dirt? 00:29:04 oklopol: you can stand on top of it 00:29:16 oklopol: so the dispenser would be level with what you're standing on 00:29:19 thus making you immune to its arrows 00:30:00 oklopol: is your game done 00:30:03 yet 00:30:12 in that case you can approach any trap: no trap can destroy your dirts, and no trap can shoot up, so you can just remove one layer of the trap at a time 00:30:18 one level i mean 00:30:33 starting from the top 00:30:39 blergh 00:31:04 oklopol: hehe 00:31:10 oklopol: question, you know your game 00:31:15 i know it 00:31:22 it's not ready yet btw 00:31:38 oklopol: it's 2d universe right 00:31:45 yes 00:32:00 3d is always ugly 00:32:00 -!- cheater00 has joined. 00:32:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:32:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:32:34 oklopol: i have an idea you will enjoy 00:32:40 i'm sure i will 00:32:43 oklopol: 3d universe with 2d cross-section interface 00:32:46 oklopol: i.e. the dwarf fortress model 00:32:56 all the freedom of 3d, all the beauty of 2d, all the incomprehensibility of the combination 00:32:59 yeah that's a retarded idea 00:33:24 oklopol: you hurt me 00:33:50 oklopol: why's it retarded :p 00:34:02 less ugly than the usual 3d view, sure, but so is rendering a 3d world as a butterfly flying around on your screen. 00:34:07 doesn't really make the gameplay all that fun. 00:34:31 Why are you down, website? Why? Why must you do this to me? 00:34:37 You are tearing me apart, website! 00:34:43 you would be a complete cripple against an enemy 00:34:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:35:11 a human that uses the usual 3d rendering or an ai 00:35:12 -!- cheater777 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:35:17 oklopol: make it 4d then 00:35:26 oklopol: everyone's a cripple 00:35:28 4d is always a viable option 00:35:29 :D 00:35:38 oklopol: now how you render this is 00:35:48 speaking of 4d...is that 4d platformer thing any closer to public playability/ 00:35:54 oklopol: pick a 4d->3d projection, preferably the craziest one you can think of that works in discrete space 00:36:04 oklopol: then do the cross-section 3d->2d thing 00:36:13 oklopol: congrats, least understandable world, ever 00:36:41 http://www.sct-bus.org/br.html is up, but the main website isn't 00:36:44 maybe a 1d projection would be nice 00:36:44 * Sgeo mindboggles 00:36:58 erm 00:37:01 i meant to say 0d 00:37:09 oklopol: use the most mathematically pretty Z^2 -> Z projection you can think of 00:37:13 and render the plane in 1d like that 00:37:20 :D 00:37:24 oklopol: omg, then do a 3d projection like this: 00:37:25 hey that's actually a great idea 00:37:33 oklopol: first row is everything with z=0, with that pretty projection 00:37:33 |4d| = |1d| 00:37:35 second row is z=1 00:37:38 third row is z=2 00:37:38 etc. 00:37:46 and you'll have the most fucked-up 3D projection ever :D 00:37:48 now 00:37:53 that forms a 2D image 00:37:59 compress THAT with the same projection 00:38:01 nah we just need one dimension and a bijection with the 4d space 00:38:03 and you've compressed 3D into 1D 00:38:08 then do the same thing with rows again 00:38:09 tada 00:38:09 4D 00:38:13 in 2D 00:38:20 and arrows drawn on top to show where the successor in each direction is 00:38:40 oklopol: mine is nicer 00:38:40 because 00:38:49 movement would be completely incomprehensible 00:38:56 you'd probably just jump about the plane seemingly randomly 00:38:56 if ( temp == '.' ) { fileName=fileName } 00:38:57 the array gets randomly resorted all the time in order to make sure the hamming distances correspond well to distances on screen 00:39:02 and things would just sorta flicker all the time 00:39:03 Bloody hell is wrong with this website? 00:39:32 erm 00:39:34 #esoteric is not a "website" 00:39:42 and it's supposed to work like this 00:40:10 :D 00:40:24 elliott: so maybe 4d -> 2d + arrows + resorting 00:40:28 or actually 00:40:32 oklopol: dude excuse me 00:40:34 maybe it just shows a neighborhood as a graph 00:40:36 oklopol: mine involved one, pretty projection? 00:40:57 but that's a stupid projection because you have to stay near spawn all the time 00:41:02 or you won't see what you're doing 00:41:17 oklopol: um it always scrolls to show you where you are 00:41:18 oklopol: and 00:41:26 oklopol: you can hold like shift while pressing a direction 00:41:27 to "look around" 00:41:38 i.e. center the view on the block to your [direction] 00:41:42 and move around like that, without actually moving 00:41:44 it scrolls, yes, what i meant was the jumps get longer 00:41:47 thus letting you GET TO GRIPS with the world 00:41:50 oklopol: but of course 00:41:52 isn't that a feature 00:42:02 it's a feature that means you have to stay near spawn 00:42:06 I wish you coud put down flags that would be your (nearest) spawnpoint 00:42:08 i prefer just rendering a graph 00:42:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:43:10 ofc it's always the same graph, but i won't tell the randomized graph drawer that 00:43:21 tomorrow I shall stop being so afraid of iretq 00:44:12 olsner: how far is your os done 00:44:28 I'd say a few operations short of iretq 00:44:36 olsner: no but srsly 00:45:10 well srsly then - I was working on context switching then figured out it was a wee bit trickier than in theory 00:45:29 (this was 3 weeks ago) 00:46:16 I thought it should be doable without any of the fancy stuff that an iretq *can* do, not so sure anymore 00:47:14 olsner, iretq? 00:47:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:47:37 interrupt return, quad version 00:47:55 or iret with a 64-bit operand size 00:48:11 olsner, is that the x86 family? 00:48:25 did not do any work today, just played minecraft :| 00:48:32 j-invariant: :D 00:48:50 olsner: so what is your os actually going to be like 00:48:52 what structure 00:49:00 Why are you down, website? Why? Why must you do this to me? <-- hey get with the memes, it's supposed to be "WEBSITE Y U NO WORK?" 00:49:13 elliott: mostly yet to be determined, microkernelish 00:49:24 I finally got my hands on the bus's schedule 00:49:48 and, you know, there won't actually be an *operating* system, it'll just be a kernel until at least 2020 00:50:11 (probably...) 00:50:32 !help 00:50:37 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:50:41 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 00:50:43 Speaking of ambition, today I came across http://nhi1.berlios.de/ "The line from the evolution in computer-science up to the computer hardware development speed and the internet global computer network lead to the possibility to create the first Non Human Intelligence until 2040. [...] The NHI1 project will create an open intelligence." 00:50:51 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 00:51:12 They have already solved natural language understanding: you just do "human language --> other language --> human language" and then make sure "other language" is "computer understand-able". 00:51:19 err 00:51:32 it's very slow today 00:51:38 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [707] 00:51:43 oh come on 00:51:45 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 00:51:48 128 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-----.>++.+++++++..+++.>.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>-. [771] 00:51:55 .. 00:51:59 fizzie: Easy! 00:52:24 olsner: hey 2020 is about when I expect @ to start taking shape... 00:52:40 after fixing up context switching I think communicating processes will be next - then some kind of support for SMP systems, basically just whatever is needed for the kernel not to fuck itself immediately 00:52:47 They have already solved natural language understanding: you just do "human language --> other language --> human language" and then make sure "other language" is "computer understand-able". <-- :D 00:53:01 fizzie, what morons. 00:53:05 OHEY Notch should add a fourth dimension mode to MC and completely remove the market for Miegakure :P 00:53:25 e.g. I'd like it to be pre-emptive as soon as possible, but I think there are tricky bits in making that work right 00:53:31 fizzie: 00:53:36 Why 'Friend Of Google' ? 00:53:36 In the past days I had time to watch some tubes from Google tech-talk including the latest interviews from Eric Schmidt. I thing Google is the current technology PowerHouse and worth to serve as the first target of NHI1. 00:53:36 Would that be Google as a verb or a noun? -> more noun as verb 00:53:51 elliott: They also have "theBrain", which is a key-value database, because, you know, that's all a brain is. Since "Data is the key point of every technology. Data have to be smart organized to be available with the speed and with the quality needed." 00:54:02 fizzie: Tokyo Cabinet: it's intelligent! 00:54:21 ~99% of all the data is located in the private (local) networks. (to check this, google (verb) for an average known (not famous) person from your own social environment and check the results available in the Internet. You will not find any data from the person own hard-drive, you will not find any data from the person employer, you will not find any private data from a Login-Required Internet zone like facebook... -> This all is good because priv 00:54:21 ate is private and the opposite from public) 00:54:25 Yes, the Moggel thing was a bit curious too. 00:54:26 Private is private and the opposite from public. 00:54:45 The Project sounds a little bit like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development but it does, in fact, more. The goal is that the programmer does only write test-cases and the TDC is in duty to: write, organize and publish the software. Nobody, including the programmer itself, have to understand the software created. 00:54:45 elliott: Do note that "theCompiler" has some Clue-like tendencies. (Except it of course doesn't exist.) 00:54:48 it irks me this full context switching thing though - there are a *lot* of registers to restore... cooperative multiprocessing would be nicer - not least because since you already have rcx and r11 clobbered for syscall so you can simply sysret back to it 00:54:50 Hey, they invented Clue! >:) 00:54:52 fizzie: haha 00:54:59 again, cooperative sucks 00:55:21 olsner: see if you compile a language like I do, then you can automatically insert yield instructions in the compiled code in places that the compiler deems to be optimal 00:55:24 olsner: just saying 00:55:54 well, basically you have to *guarantee* that all user processes call yield in a timely manner 00:55:55 olsner: this allows the simplicity of a cooperative architecture with the responsiveness and reliability of a preemptive architecture, and with a Sufficiently Smart Compiler, even greater performance 00:56:03 olsner: yes, and since all things in my OS go through the compiler 00:56:08 it just has to insert yield instructions itself 00:56:12 right, that's your OS 00:56:19 olsner: which your OS should be, since my OS is the best? 00:56:35 it irks me this full context switching thing though - there are a *lot* of registers to restore... cooperative multiprocessing would be nicer - not least because since you already have rcx and r11 clobbered for syscall so you can simply sysret back to it <-- hm doesn't x86 have an instruction to dump it all or restore it all? 00:56:58 fizzie: "responsible engineer to migrate the entire infrastructure of a life insurance company to the state of the art" 00:57:04 fizzie: Dear god, this guy is actually given serious tasks to do. 00:57:08 for one, I still expect an assembly-level interface, and no trust from the OS on user processes - this means cooperative is pretty much out of the question from the start 00:57:13 http://openfacts2.berlios.de/wikien/index.php/User:Aotto1968#1_mar_2008 00:57:31 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:42 olsner: my OS gives no trust at all to "processes" (no such concept in mine), but yeah, no asm-level interface without the user demanding that e be allowed to run some arbitrary code :) 00:58:02 olsner, will this be an RTOS? 00:58:06 Vorpal: there is (waspushad 00:58:25 olsner, er? 00:58:29 *(was) pushad, but it doesn't restore ip and doesn't support 64-bit registers 00:58:41 olsner: have I mentioned: @ is the greatest? 00:58:52 elliott: repeatedly, probably 00:58:53 olsner, wasn't there some task dump? 00:59:00 olsner: Insufficiently? I am going to mention it? 00:59:00 tasks? no such thing 00:59:03 @ is the greatest? 00:59:39 Vorpal: that is to say, hardware task-switching is generally recognized as suckage and is dropped in amd64 01:00:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:00:10 elliott: Well, he does (to some extent) seem less overtly crazy than, say, Mentifex; and there are some reasonable (from a first glance, anyway) low-level twiddlery there, though of course nothing that'd have anything to do with AI. 01:00:43 olsner: OS task-switching is generally recognised as suckage and is dropped in @ 01:01:09 elliott trolling. surprising in oh so many ways. 01:01:19 olsner: i have a knife and your address 01:01:30 olsner, well yes 01:01:35 elliott: wtf, who gave you a knife? and my address? 01:01:42 olsner, I still thought there was some dump-registers thingy 01:01:43 olsner: that's what I want to know! 01:01:57 http://9gag.com/gag/68400/ <-- greatest troll ever 01:02:11 elliott: also, do come visit and chop some vegetables with your knife, we could cook and have fun all night 01:02:22 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:02:29 Gregor: :D 01:02:41 olsner: pervert, I'm going to call the police 01:03:05 elliott: "a'ight" as they say "in da hood" 01:03:23 olsner: I have trouble believing that you have any relation to or know anything about "da hood" 01:04:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:04:14 elliott: I have trouble believing in God, yet he's real 01:04:22 olsner: he is? 01:04:50 not sure, as previously mentioned I have trouble believing 01:05:07 olsner: are you _trying_ to confuse me? :D 01:05:37 am I? really? 01:05:42 fizzie: yay mentifex http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2010/09/sep09mfpj.html 01:05:47 olsner: knife, address 01:06:03 elliott: vegetables, "fun all night" 01:06:14 olsner: saved for future blackmail 01:06:18 nice 01:06:25 fizzie: CARS WHAT ARE CARS / GUNS WHAT ARE GUNS / TOOLS WHAT ARE TOOLS 01:06:28 fizzie: Pure poetry. 01:08:51 Also obvious sentience. 01:09:50 THE GUNS MAKE THE CARS 01:10:14 fizzie: It's referring to the military-industrial complex, dude. 01:14:48 j-invariant: give haskell a better type system please 01:15:56 elliott: HAHA 01:16:05 elliott: haskell is broke, let it die 01:16:15 j-invariant: i'm not about to start writing programs in coq 01:16:16 :p 01:16:26 Coq fails 01:16:26 "There's a feature called "reification" (which the classically-educated will recognise as the Latin for "thingification"), which provides a reflection mechanism." 01:16:31 j-invariant: oh yeah, epigram 2 programs 01:16:34 hurf durf 01:16:38 Epigram 2? 01:17:07 j-invariant: well got another suggestion? :P 01:17:35 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined. 01:18:36 elliott: There is currently no programming language suitable for actually programming in 01:18:52 j-invariant: i don't think that's true ... you can mostly sling it if you build your own little library of abstractions 01:19:22 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:24:56 @hoogle TypeQ -> Name 01:24:57 Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b 01:24:57 Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b 01:24:57 Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax bindQ :: Q a -> (a -> Q b) -> Q b 01:25:03 j-invariant: for instance I think Template Haskell is useful :-) 01:29:17 I don't like it 01:29:24 neither do you 01:31:53 maybe I should just give on scheme and implement a new language in haskell 01:32:18 Slate has macros, right?/ 01:32:28 [I think I'm putting Atomo down, for now] 01:32:41 Sgeo: nobody is going to know what Slate is in 2 years 01:32:50 (I hope) 01:33:28 java: malloc.c:3684: __libc_malloc: Assertion `!victim || ((((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)))))->size & 0x2) || ar_ptr == (((((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)))))->size & 0x4) ? ((heap_info *)((unsigned long)(((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t))))) & ~((2 * (4 * 1024 * 1024 * sizeof(long)))-1)))->ar_ptr : &main_arena)' failed. 01:33:32 I do prefer Atomo's lambda syntax 01:33:33 YAY 01:33:43 I think it's the best I've ever seen 01:33:54 lambda syntax, that's what matters in a language 01:33:57 pikhq: :-D 01:33:59 pikhq: waht jvm? 01:34:01 *what 01:34:13 elliott, note that, despite that, I'm still leaning back towards Slate 01:34:25 Also, lack of a lambda syntax can be.. ticky 01:34:27 elliott: what should I call my caluculator thing? 01:34:33 Computronium? 01:34:35 j-invariant: you mean your dependent CAS? 01:34:39 yeah 01:34:42 Same with a crappy one (ahem ahem Python) 01:35:26 j-invariant: Colony? 01:35:30 j-invariant: justification: dependent -> http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=dependency 01:35:36 -> colony for some reason 01:35:44 j-invariant: also you could say it was like a colony of mathematical definitions??? i dunno :D 01:35:51 hehe 01:35:52 elliott: HotSpot. 01:35:53 i like short, simple names, they don't have to mean much imo 01:36:03 pikhq: note that hotspot is -client only, -server is another VM 01:36:18 j-invariant: "In computer science, coupling or dependency ..." maybe some pun on coupling 01:36:21 It's claiming to be HotSpot server. 01:36:29 j-invariant: Relate, coupling -- relationship, and it like, finds mathematical relations? 01:36:38 j-invariant: so Colony or Relate :P 01:38:23 I can't program without dependent types 01:38:46 NOW IT KEEPS CRASHING. 01:38:51 IT MUST HATE MY MINE 01:38:54 elliott: simple example: data T = Z | Q, obviously you just defiena function carrier Z = Integer ; carrier Q = Rational and everything is easy 01:39:22 j-invariant: that's rather limited since you can't extent T 01:39:23 elliott: (N.B. I can't do the usual data T x where Z :: T Integer ... because of other stuff) 01:39:28 no? 01:39:33 j-invariant: or wait, is this haskell? 01:39:36 wait obviously not 01:39:45 j-invariant: so how are you approaching this, are you implementing a dependent lang and doing it in that or? 01:39:47 this is an explanation of why haskell is stupid 01:40:36 (N.B. I am well aware that it's /me/ that's stupid, because I can't find any way to program this very simple) 01:40:55 maybe I'll just have if x /= y then error "IMPOSSIBLE" else ... everywhere 01:40:56 Has anyone yet made an easily reprogrammable music playing system in MC? 01:41:23 no 01:41:26 it's only been a day 01:41:44 j-invariant: try template haskell :D 01:41:46 j-invariant: alternatively 01:41:58 j-invariant: one way to do more "complex" types that doesn't give compile-time errors but stops you having conditions everywhere 01:41:59 is 01:42:07 module Foo (DataType, mkDataType) where 01:42:15 data DataType = Constructor ... 01:42:24 mkDataType ... | ok = Constructor ... 01:42:29 | otherwise = error "nooooo" 01:42:31 for instance 01:42:35 module Nat (Nat, mkNat) where 01:42:40 newtype Nat = Nat Integer 01:42:44 mkNat n | n >= 0 = Nat n 01:42:53 | otherwise = error "Nat.mkNat: negative natural" 01:43:01 then nothing can access the constructor 01:43:01 oh 01:43:02 you also need 01:43:08 the relevant deriving instances 01:43:12 so you can to toInteger and the like 01:43:13 but yeha 01:43:14 *yeah 01:47:31 -!- amca has joined. 01:48:21 So I think I can actually make a valid claim that "haskells type system is too limiting" 01:48:43 (normally when people say that they are wrong) 01:49:05 You can't embed a more expressive type system into it 01:49:51 obviously :P 01:49:57 so e.g. if you are implementing a language with a more expressive type system, your typechecking (written in haskell) cannot give you a well typed & total evaluator 01:49:58 @hoogle a -> ExpQ 01:50:07 (In fact haskell can not even express its own type system) 01:50:11 j-invariant: the thing is that more expressive type systems have their own problems 01:50:25 elliott: I don't know of any 01:50:35 j-invariant: try and type infer Coq programs 01:50:53 j-invariant: also you get very close very quickly to "oops, my language must be sub-TC for this to work" 01:51:00 and also "oops, I need proofs everywhere to take advantage of this" 01:51:08 and also "oops, everything is really fucking slow to typecheck now" 01:51:12 @help 01:51:13 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:51:16 @hoogle ExpQ 01:51:18 Language.Haskell.TH type ExpQ = Q Exp 01:51:18 Language.Haskell.TH.Lib type ExpQ = Q Exp 01:51:18 Language.Haskell.TH.Quote dataToExpQ :: Data a => (b -> Maybe (Q Exp)) -> a -> Q Exp 01:51:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:03 maybe I am wrong! I hope so 01:52:08 j-invariant: here's a little something i am working on for haskell 01:52:15 I just had a stupid idea that might work 01:52:20 type level GENSYM 01:52:29 {-# LANGUAGE TemplateHaskell #-} 01:52:29 import Foo 01:52:29 validatedType "Nat" "Integer" [| \i -> i >= 0 |] 01:52:37 j-invariant: then 01:52:44 *Main> :browse 01:52:44 newtype Nat = MkNat Integer 01:52:44 mkNat :: Integer -> Nat 01:53:01 *Main> mkNat 3 01:53:01 MkNat 3 01:53:01 *Main> mkNat (-1) 01:53:01 MkNat *** Exception: bad! 01:53:29 j-invariant: obviously I really want it to be like maybeMkNat returning Maybe Nat and then have functions on top of that etc 01:53:38 *etc. 01:54:45 j-invariant: obviously this is runtime-only 01:54:47 but i think it's quite cool 01:55:53 elliott: you could implement this without TH? 01:56:00 j-invariant: how? 01:56:14 j-invariant: well sure you could write out all the functions yourself ... but that's a huge pain 01:56:28 the point is that this defines things like mkMaybeNat, isValidNat, etc. 01:59:01 j-invariant: ? 02:00:34 elliott: not trying to be mean but I don't find that very useful 02:00:45 elliott: I mean just type out the names by hand :P 02:01:06 j-invariant: ok compare: 02:01:29 newtype Nat = MkNat Integer deriving (Eq, Show) 02:01:36 mkMaybeNat :: Integer -> Maybe Nat 02:01:40 mkMaybeNat x 02:01:45 | x >= 0 = Just (MkNat x) 02:01:50 | otherwise = Nothing 02:01:54 mkNat :: Integer -> Nat 02:02:02 mkNat = fromJust . mkMaybeNat 02:02:04 j-invariant: with 02:02:11 validatedType "Nat" "Integer" [| \i -> i >= 0 |] 02:02:49 elliott: well maybe that is useful but it's not exactly a pearl 02:03:05 j-invariant: i mentioned it because it was relevant to what you were saying 02:03:10 j-invariant: wrt continually making checks for validity 02:03:30 oh, how is it? 02:03:46 nobody in #haskell wants to help me :( 02:04:28 j-invariant: you didn't state your problem very clearly in #haskell :) 02:04:34 j-invariant: also, the point is that instead of checking values are valid all the time 02:04:37 you can just build this "gate" 02:04:48 and since all Nats have to come from mkNat, since you don't export MkNat, 02:04:56 you can be sure that every Nat obeys the condition you ste 02:04:57 *set 02:05:09 which is type safety, of a sort: all your internal code can assume and work upon these invariants on the type 02:05:16 it's just that it's actually implemented at runtime 02:05:22 but it should simplify your code a lot 02:07:13 elliott: also someone mentioned "Turing complete" which was annoying 02:07:57 lol don't acll him on it, that will just make things worse 02:08:10 he just hadn't seen what I was trying to explain 02:08:21 thuogh it was kind of a knee-jerk thing 02:08:33 i like calling people on things 02:08:38 X) 02:08:40 j-invariant: but i'll answer your question 02:08:53 j-invariant: stop trying to make everything perfectly type-safe, this isn't how haskell is meant to be done 02:08:59 -!- impomatic has left (?). 02:09:02 elliott: :D 02:09:04 verify that types are essentially write, but handle actual errors as runtime errors, for instance via Maybe 02:09:21 Haskell isn't meant to let you solve all bugs with the type system, that's a design decision, probably a conscious one 02:09:26 So don't try and make it do that for you 02:10:49 I can actually make this work IF there is no type level computation 02:11:00 (on the other hand, I like type level computation..) 02:11:04 j-invariant: try and forget dependent types exist entirely 02:11:08 j-invariant: write your program 02:11:15 j-invariant: and /then/ see what you can do to it 02:11:16 elliott: I tried that, In scheme 02:11:42 j-invariant: do it in haskell 02:11:44 don't forget types exist 02:11:48 just dependent types :) 02:11:49 Didn't work out, someone mentiond "use objects" and I gave up 02:12:00 j-invariant: if you want an abstract syntax tree, make "data MyAST = ..." 02:12:04 j-invariant: if you want an integer, use Integer 02:12:10 j-invariant: avoid type parameters except for generic structures like lists and the like 02:12:12 and use no GADTs 02:12:20 j-invariant: I dare you, try and write your polynomial code like that 02:12:26 j-invariant: this may not be the nicest way to use it 02:12:28 but in Haskell 02:12:30 have to use GADTs :> 02:12:33 it's the only way you're gonna be able to code it 02:12:35 j-invariant: nope, not allowed 02:12:40 j-invariant: remove some type parameters until you don't have to any more 02:13:46 -!- augur has joined. 02:14:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:23:06 hi augur 02:23:21 O_O 02:23:25 hey elliott 02:23:30 sup boy 02:23:35 why O_O 02:23:54 ? 02:24:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:24:24 augur 02:24:50 cause! 02:25:00 wat 02:25:37 :D 02:26:10 aggry 02:26:21 eggry 02:32:43 i need to figure out what program to write! 02:34:19 im writing one as we speak! 02:38:36 #math is fucking stupid 02:38:49 they're all doing pseudo-set theory 02:41:19 j-invariant: quotes? :D 02:41:24 Couldn't match expected type `Change t a' 02:41:25 against inferred type `Change t1 a1' 02:41:29 j-invariant: if i get this error it means i'm winning right? 02:41:31 02:42 < Polytope> {x | P} means that x is in the set if and only if P is true. 02:41:31 02:43 < j-invariant> no set theory allows definitions like that 02:41:37 NB: `Change' is a type function, and may not be injective 02:41:46 j-invariant: more, i want more quotes, pastebin! :P 02:41:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:41:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 02:41:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:42:05 02:26 < j-invariant> Axmann: { X subset of Y | P(X) } defines a set 02:42:05 02:26 < j-invariant> Axmann: { X | P(X) } does not 02:43:29 Type declaration in a class must be a kind signature or synonym default 02:43:31 definitely winning 02:43:52 j-invariant: wait a sec 02:43:57 j-invariant: is this the polytope of http://www.bash.org/?4916 02:44:13 dunno 02:44:18 elliott: everyone's being an idoit 02:44:24 j-invariant: i doubt it, he mentioned first-year, so first-year uni student? 02:44:26 that quote is 90s vintage 02:44:38 so he'd have to have said that when he was like 02:44:39 9 02:44:45 elliott: they are doing { x | P(x) } rather than { x in X | P(x) } 02:44:56 elliott: apparently it's easier? 02:45:00 j-invariant: P(x) = x in X /\ Q(x) 02:45:03 Problem? :trollface: 02:45:27 P(x) = x is not in x, problem Frege? 02:45:41 P(x) = not P(x), problem Aristotle? 02:45:53 you can't do that! 02:45:53 why did i say aristotle 02:46:00 j-invariant: isn't #math basically a cesspool anyway 02:46:01 lol 02:46:07 wow holy shit look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page 02:46:09 elliott: yeah seems that way, it's frustrating 02:46:09 ugliest fucking logo ever 02:46:14 lol at the mirroring in the box 02:46:15 jesus christ 02:46:22 oh my god look at the featured section what have they done 02:46:28 Today's featured picture 02:46:29 02:46:29 Jimmy Wales is the co-founder of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia, along with Larry Sanger and others. Wikipedia succeeded an earlier attempt at an encyclopedia called Nupedia, but Nupedia grew slowly because of its onerous submission format, which required articles to be peer reviewed. Sanger was then introduced to the concept of a wiki, and thus Wikipedia was born. Wales continues to serve the Board of Trustees of the non-profit Wikimedia Foun 02:46:29 dation, and he also co-founded Wikia, a for-profit wiki hosting site. 02:46:31 why is that 02:46:32 what is this 02:46:34 is this a joke 02:46:48 todays featured picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Jimmy_Wales_Fundraiser_Appeal_edit.jpg 02:46:52 oh LOL you're on it too 02:47:01 * Cannot join #not-not-math (Channel is invite only). 02:47:14 it should redirect to #math 02:47:16 to annoy intuitionists 02:47:27 lol 02:48:11 oh come on haskell 02:48:14 don't be a dumbfuck 02:49:10 Couldn't match expected type `Change t2 a2' 02:49:10 against inferred type `FileChange' 02:49:10 NB: `Change' is a type function, and may not be injective 02:49:15 steadily heading towards failure 02:49:36 j-invariant: i'm going to troll them 02:49:38 badly 02:49:41 for my own amusement 02:49:44 God dammit. 02:49:54 Minecraft crashed. I lost the crate I put my stuff in. 02:50:02 this will not end well 02:50:03 pikhq: :( 02:50:07 pikhq: that happened to me once 02:50:14 I submitted a report 02:50:21 j-invariant: that just submits to apple 02:50:22 lol 02:50:24 j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjsWHtkd7Yk 02:50:27 oh wait 02:50:29 you're not on os x 02:50:30 elliott: XD 02:50:35 I emailed it by hand 02:50:38 pikhq: internalise this phrase: Notch quality engineering. 02:50:46 pikhq: Notch, you see, is possibly the worst programer of our time. 02:51:04 Minecraft crashed. I lost the crate I put my stuff in. <-- since when did you start playing minecraft? :D 02:51:13 Today! 02:51:18 pikhq: He got a good idea, somehow managed to develop it to near its current state (recent improvements have been by Jeb, who is competent), and then went into an ETERNAL LOOP OF FAIL. 02:51:23 pikhq: For instance. A quote. 02:51:37 pikhq: [[Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository. 02:51:37 (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)]] 02:51:57 pikhq: When Beta first came out, in multiplayer, when you died, items would *duplicate*. 02:52:03 You would get two of everything you own lying around. 02:52:11 But only half of them could be picked up. 02:52:11 j-invariant, see that link! 02:52:14 elliott: what the hell just happened lol 02:52:21 pikhq: Additionally, leaf decay meant that single-player games ran at about 5 fps. 02:52:23 Vorpal: oops how did I miss that 02:52:35 pikhq: We are almost entirely certain that Notch does not even try and run the game before pushing updates. 02:52:54 Vorpal: WOW!!! Meta :D 02:53:41 Ah well. 02:53:52 All I lost was wood and cobblestone. 02:54:02 j-invariant, indeed. There was harry potter theme on youtube too. Played manually 02:54:11 j-invariant, by walking sideways and hitting timed blocks 02:54:15 I 02:54:18 pikhq: what's your base 02:54:19 Vorpal: this one is great though 02:54:22 've been hollowing out a mountain. 02:54:22 as in what type 02:54:25 ah 02:54:40 And mining the hell out of it. 02:54:52 I'm playing on peaceful, though. 02:55:13 pikhq: laaame 02:55:16 wtf 02:55:19 j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f1ofoKylN4 02:55:19 pikhq: real men play on hard 02:55:20 also real women 02:55:21 and fake men 02:55:23 there was a skeleton that killed me IN BROAD DAYLIGHT 02:55:24 but not fake women 02:55:28 j-invariant: xD 02:55:32 j-invariant: it just didn't want to burn 02:55:37 j-invariant: if trees shelter them 02:55:40 they can avoid burning 02:55:42 j-invariant, rather expertly played I have to say considering the limits of minecraft. I played that melody on piano 02:55:42 but not if they step out 02:56:21 Vorpal: have you seen the CPU? 02:56:29 yes, he has. 02:56:50 aaaaargh fuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyou FUCK GHC 02:56:53 j-invariant, yes I have even downloaded and played with it locally 02:57:02 YOU ARE NOT DOING THINGS I WANT YOU TO DO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THESE THINGS ARE UNREASONABLE 02:57:08 I DISLIKE THIS FACET OF YOU 02:57:50 Vorpal: oh really! I tried that.. didn't work for me 02:58:15 Vorpal: I thnink the savegame format has been changed recently 02:58:21 j-invariant, no it hasn't 02:58:22 folderized 02:58:24 Vorpal: hm 02:58:27 j-invariant, it likely will though 02:58:29 it changed a looong time ago 02:58:30 Vorpal: Then I am an idiot 02:58:32 j-invariant, did you unpack the zip? 02:58:36 Vorpal: the RAR 02:58:39 oh right 02:58:40 the rar 02:58:41 whatever 02:58:57 Vorpal: I'm being precise because the mistake is probably a very small detail 02:59:13 j-invariant, oh right. unrar? 02:59:19 yeah 02:59:25 j-invariant, you need to tell it to unpack with folder structure preserved 02:59:30 j-invariant, rather than unpack flat 02:59:33 yes this is stupid 02:59:41 check docs. iirc it is x instead of e 02:59:41 I blame unrar :P 02:59:43 not myself 02:59:44 or something like that 02:59:48 j-invariant, same 03:00:35 holy shit, it works 03:01:03 well, sorta... 03:01:59 j-invariant, if you ever played zelda oot you will find this awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUSF3IlFqY 03:02:41 Vorpal: one question.. how do you find all these videos so quickly? 03:02:52 j-invariant, by searching youtube! 03:02:52 reddit.com/r/minecraft 03:02:56 elliott, no 03:03:02 some I found there 03:03:05 but not most 03:03:06 I want to make these boxes 03:03:07 you will notice it taking up 90% of your reddit time soon 03:03:21 j-invariant, can you tell him not for all cases 03:03:36 Meanwhile, nine year old girls play Minecraft: http://i.imgur.com/KPI02.jpg 03:03:51 I like how the idea of a minecart floating in the void was scrapped. 03:04:04 elliott: 03:04:05 03:03 < Axmann> so if {x | x is an integer above zero}, then |8|? 03:04:05 03:03 < Axmann> that 8=infinity 03:04:10 elliott: Misson accomplished 03:04:22 j-invariant: wait what xD 03:04:54 8*2i = oo 03:04:58 j-invariant: {troll} 03:05:28 Vorpal: Cool! It's working 03:07:46 j-invariant, happy to be of service 03:08:00 # C [r600_dri.so+0x55d0c] radeonEmitVec4+0x4c 03:08:02 ARGH 03:08:10 It's hitting a bug in my driver. 03:08:20 pikhq: :-D 03:08:51 j-invariant: what, they're actually listening to me ... 03:09:03 j-invariant: assure me that #math is never worthwhile, because I'm on the road to a ban 03:09:41 02:45 < j-invariant> I thought this was #math, not #interpretive-dance 03:10:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:11:45 3:14 maybe I should go to bed 03:11:49 pikhq, ouch 03:12:07 pikhq, should have gotten yourself nvidia or intel :P 03:12:43 j-invariant, 04:15: I agree 03:12:46 j-invariant: i'm not going to bed so you shouldn't either, that's like 03:12:48 a fundamental law of nature 03:12:48 night → 03:12:59 elliott: Some people have to get up in the morning 03:13:17 (I'm not one of them) 03:13:19 j-invariant: what a strange concept 03:13:40 j-invariant: anyone who has to get up in the morning on saturday probably has a terrible life i figure, so being sleep-deprived shouldn't make things significantly worse 03:13:42 ergo what i said stands 03:14:38 LOL 03:14:39 pikhq: I suggest switching to another driver, Minecraft takes precedence over all 03:14:40 so harsh 03:14:50 pikhq: I would redesign @ to be able to support a JVM if it couldn't, just so it could run Minecraft 03:17:53 * pikhq just won Minecraft. 03:18:13 Build a tiny room from wood planks. VICTORY SHALL BE YOURS. 03:18:41 :O 03:19:16 pikhq: ...? 03:19:29 copumpkin! O_O 03:19:34 YOU BASTARD 03:19:36 Mobs can't get you. Voila, you are immortal. 03:19:36 ? 03:19:47 sup dude 03:19:54 yo yo 03:19:54 since when do you come here 03:20:02 augur: I'm just stalking you 03:20:06 :> 03:20:09 <3 03:20:23 nah, I intend to murder you 03:20:28 but to do so I must first learn your habits 03:20:32 D: 03:20:38 pikhq: um i just mentioned how to win 03:20:39 also months ago 03:20:39 well 03:20:45 elliott can explain my habits to you 03:20:50 pikhq: you can do it with only taking two blocks 03:21:00 MURTHER! 03:21:05 pikhq: in fact, you can win in seconds 03:21:06 pikhq: let me tell you how 03:21:09 pikhq: find a dirt hill 03:21:14 pikhq: take two blocks vertically from the ground 03:21:15 pikhq: step inside 03:21:16 pikhq: turn around 03:21:22 pikhq: place them in front of you facing outside 03:21:25 congratulations, you win Minecraft! 03:21:34 what are the criteria for winning? 03:21:42 copumpkin: being safe forever, obviously 03:21:49 copumpkin: if there's nothing more to fight, obviously you win the game 03:21:51 that's how games work 03:21:57 after you do the final boss, that's it, no more game, you win 03:22:05 in this case, the final boss is two dirt blocks 03:23:25 -!- nooga has joined. 03:24:24 pikhq: still playing peaceful like a wimp? 03:24:46 elliott: I won on hard! 03:24:55 pikhq: Hard isn't actually very hard vs. normal 03:24:56 mmmm weetabix 03:25:06 pikhq: Really, if you have a house, you're fine; and you can even go around at night with a sword and armour. 03:25:19 elliott, even a wooden sword? 03:25:20 Just makes mining more interesting :P 03:25:27 And wooden armor? 03:25:28 Sgeo: Sure, but why would you make wooden anything? 03:25:31 elliott: BUT I MUST REMOVE ALL THE STONE FROM INSIDE THIS MOUNTAIN 03:25:32 There is no wooden armour. 03:25:36 pikhq: You can do that on hard. 03:25:48 elliott, because you haven't started mining yet 03:25:50 pikhq: to make the hall of the mountain king 03:25:59 Sgeo: You make one pickaxe, take three stone, and you have a stone pickaxe. 03:26:04 Congratulations, you never need to use wood tools ever again. 03:26:31 elliott, unless you're careless and run out of stone pickaxe usage and stones 03:26:37 Sgeo: That is impossible. 03:26:38 ... *Run out of stones*? 03:26:47 A stone pickaxe lasts for enough time to mine hundreds and hundreds of cobbles. 03:27:04 If you ever go "oops, out of cobbles, have to make a wood pickaxe", congratulations -- you are the first person to actually *lose* Minecraft. 03:27:54 comex: so are you a minecraft-head too or are you just here for the esoteric languages nobody ever speaks about? 03:28:30 Anyone want to shoot comex with an alarm clock? 03:28:41 copumpkin: he's just in here because of ircnomic 03:28:44 ...to some approximation 03:29:01 i don't actually know if comex does esolangs, but he never really talks, so, we just kinda accept him 03:29:03 he's cool 03:29:07 elliott, surely you mean Canada 03:29:23 Eff you! 03:29:25 elliott: he used to use an uncommon language, at least 03:29:26 He's a pretty cool guy though. He doesn't afraid of anything! 03:29:31 not sure I'd call it esoteric :P 03:29:32 copumpkin: What, Python? 03:29:36 nah, nimrod 03:29:45 Ne'r heard of it. 03:29:52 Oh, that thing. 03:30:01 That terrible-looking thing. 03:30:24 copumpkin: All comex's code that I've seen has been Python at least 03:30:27 Bayes was Python. 03:30:55 he's occasionally shown a tiny bit of interest in haskell 03:31:00 which is pretty esoteric 03:31:18 * copumpkin wonders if talking about comex for long enough will un-afk him 03:31:46 yeah i think he's written...one haskell program? 03:31:52 which one? 03:32:30 xD 03:33:03 damn Boston public transport 03:33:11 I want to get to the airport tomorrow morning 03:33:14 for a flight at 6:50 03:33:27 and the bus to get to the airport starts up at 5:50 03:33:27 copumpkin: Yeeaaah, good luck with that. 03:33:29 look at that 03:33:34 a person who needs to be up on Saturday 03:33:39 j-invariant: ha ha, let's laugh at him 03:33:48 hehe 03:33:50 elliott: hey, I get to go to warm places, at least :) 03:33:54 it's fucking cold here 03:33:54 I'm planning on waking up early on Saturday 03:34:03 Assuming she contacts me tonight 03:34:06 it sucks how everyone who asks a programming question seems to get an answer, except nobody knows how to solve my thing 03:34:06 copumpkin: i want to live in iceland, i can't really relate 03:34:15 j-invariant: your question is wrong :D 03:34:21 copumpkin: Boston's public transport is positively nice for "sane" hours. If you happen to need to be along the right routes. 03:34:28 in the context of haskell 03:34:37 copumpkin: 6:50 AM on Saturday? Weep! 03:34:38 pikhq: yeah, except I live and work on the green line 03:34:42 What's j-invariant's question? 03:34:46 copumpkin: Ouch. 03:34:52 elliott: a colleague of mine is from iceland! 03:34:57 and I'm listening to icelandic music right now 03:34:59 zomg 03:35:01 copumpkin: wait wait wait let me guess their name 03:35:04 copumpkin: either 03:35:04 Sgeo: how do I do such and such 03:35:06 copumpkin: X Yson 03:35:07 copumpkin: or 03:35:09 Sofuckingslow. 03:35:13 copumpkin: X Ydottir 03:35:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:35:16 lol 03:35:18 none of that 03:35:35 *dóttir 03:35:39 no 03:35:42 copumpkin: er are you sure, isn't that how icelandic names are formed :P 03:35:46 lol 03:35:50 there's a grammar for them? 03:35:57 * copumpkin builds an enumerator 03:36:06 now, I have a tough question 03:36:09 maybe you guys can help me 03:36:24 Mayhaps. 03:36:26 I just ate 3 (THREE) weetabix. Should I eat more? 03:36:29 copumpkin: well er, 03:36:42 copumpkin: it's [Firstname] [Parentfirstname][son|dóttir] 03:36:48 what's their name, I'd be very surprised if it didn't fit that? 03:36:54 son is indeed the suffix 03:37:21 copumpkin: then "X Yson" is correct, as i said 03:37:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name 03:37:44 oh, I didn't realize your uppercase was a free variable 03:38:06 heh 03:38:09 hi, my name is ecks whyson 03:38:20 lol 03:38:31 elliott: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like trying to guess if the sun's going to come up tomorrow. 03:38:42 pikhq: wut 03:38:50 Dagur Bergþóruson Eggertsson 03:38:59 that's some name 03:39:06 yep 03:39:06 elliott: Guessing that -son or -dóttir is the suffix for a Icelandic name. 03:39:13 copumpkin: congratulations, you know the mayor of reykjavik 03:39:20 *reykjavík 03:39:21 I'm good 03:39:28 erm ex-mayor 03:39:37 so, about the important question 03:39:43 does anyone have any thoughts? 03:40:04 what question 03:40:19 THE FUCKING WEETABIX 03:40:22 oh 03:40:25 eat more weetabix 03:40:29 with maple syrup 03:40:31 really? 03:40:32 I ate three 03:40:35 (everything should be combined with maple syrup) 03:40:35 copumpkin will ate 40 weetabix. That's as many as four tens! And that's terrible. 03:40:39 (also bacon) 03:40:39 I haven't had them with maple syrup 03:40:43 and chocolate 03:40:45 simultaneously 03:41:00 bacon with melted chocolate dripped in maple syrup is probably close to being liquid happiness-inflictor 03:41:14 well apart from not being liquid 03:41:15 that's one failing 03:41:19 elliott: Surprisingly, bacon and chocolate do in fact go together very well. 03:41:25 pikhq: i have this bacon chocolate here 03:41:26 it's amazing 03:41:29 fucking amazing 03:41:32 restored my faith in god 03:41:33 you know what also goes with bacon? 03:41:35 Unless you're Jewish. In which case you're fucked. 03:41:37 more bacon? 03:41:37 balsamic vinegar 03:41:42 no, you're wrong, the answer is more bacon 03:41:50 strangely enough 03:41:50 well, that too 03:41:52 Baconic vinegar? 03:41:57 copumpkin: vinegar + maple syrup!!! 03:42:00 THE BEST WORST THING EVER 03:42:05 guido thinks it's unbaconic 03:42:11 heh 03:42:23 elliott: does the Type 1 font program language count as esoteric? 03:42:27 I need it for this exploit. 03:42:32 (ssshhh) 03:42:35 comex: no, sry 03:42:44 it's a pretty good example of a turing tarpit 03:42:45 :] 03:42:47 comex: I totally won't tell anyone what it is if you say it in this publicly-logged channel. 03:42:54 * copumpkin tweets it 03:43:01 copumpkin won't tweet it either 03:43:03 so go ahead 03:43:09 why not? :( 03:43:13 I want some fame too 03:43:22 because it's secret! you can tweet it in a few minutes. 03:43:31 * copumpkin sets a countdown timer 03:43:37 * copumpkin goes and fetches more weetabix 03:43:39 x.x 03:43:55 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:43:59 I'm not even kidding, though; it feels like writing in an esolang. 03:44:07 -!- quintopia has joined. 03:44:13 comex: EXCUSE ME SORRY TELL US WHAT THE EXPLOIT IS OR GET BANNED 03:44:22 famous people are allowed in here only if they give us inside scoops 03:44:34 or money 03:44:53 I don't think Notch would be allowed here even if he gave us both 03:45:16 Maybe if he gave us a LOT of money. 03:45:38 why wouldn't he? 03:45:44 copumpkin: because he can't fucking code 03:45:52 oh? 03:45:53 and he has the piece of shit autoupdate to more broken versions constantly without warning 03:46:06 and he said git is horrible and evil and switched to svn because he fucked something up 03:46:10 and and and he "frowns upon" modders and 03:46:12 lol 03:46:14 he is the most hateful person 03:46:27 yeah but he's rich 03:46:31 yes 03:46:32 and in my land, that means he's good 03:46:38 and he can't even fucking hire developers to code minecraft properly 03:46:47 he hired devs ... to code on his supersekrit new project 03:46:55 rather than, you know, the game people actually fucking play 03:47:24 Didn''t a non-Notch person work on the new update? 03:47:26 in my land, that just means he's going to try to get richer 03:47:28 yes 03:47:29 Jeb 03:47:30 which means he's even gooder 03:47:35 copumpkin: your land is strange 03:47:40 Sgeo: the only non-Notch coder working on MC 03:47:43 and also seemingly competent 03:48:07 he basically did the whole new update 03:48:08 which was good 03:48:12 Would I be an improvement or a ... opposite 03:48:12 success = good and money = success 03:48:14 From Notch 03:48:15 more evidence that notch is a oajgoidfjg 03:48:18 if you are poor, you are a bad person 03:48:20 Sgeo: um i don't even want to think about that 03:48:25 copumpkin: good to know! 03:48:39 copumpkin: i'm just going to assume you're joking even though this is the internet 03:49:03 I'm going to assume that you assume that because you're poor 03:49:09 cause good people wouldn't assume that 03:49:18 i'm actually gandhi 03:49:26 I'm not even going to bother making the obvious Star Trek comparision 03:49:27 yeah, the worst person in history 03:49:41 Sgeo: what. 03:49:47 no star trek comparison is ever obvious 03:50:01 now that I have consumed more weetabix 03:50:02 elliott: what. 03:50:09 and am relatively replete 03:50:12 copumpkin: eat more 03:50:14 bitch 03:50:16 This one is. 03:50:16 I have another profound question 03:50:22 okay 03:50:23 shoot 03:50:32 should I sleep a bit and then wake up to go to the airport 03:50:42 or just stay up as late as I normally do, and not sleep at all 03:50:46 copumpkin: latter 03:50:47 way more fun 03:50:50 meh 03:50:52 * Sgeo decides that he's the wrong person to answer the question 03:50:53 you will RULE the plane 03:50:54 look 03:50:55 copumpkin: ALSOALSO 03:50:58 Minecraft is a Java applet 03:50:58 but then I'll want to sleep tomorrow 03:51:01 copumpkin: you can eat more weetabix 03:51:03 you don't need to say anything else 03:51:04 in the meantime 03:51:05 and I only have a couple of days out there 03:51:08 comex: it's not an applet 03:51:08 well it is 03:51:11 but nobody uses the applet... 03:51:14 you can't mod it or anything 03:51:16 so it seems like a waste to fly away and sleep there 03:51:16 or even use texture packs 03:51:20 or adjust the resolution 03:51:23 why would anyone even use the applet 03:51:33 copumpkin: sleep on the plane 03:51:39 copumpkin: problem solved 03:51:39 it's only three hours or so 03:51:47 copumpkin: good enough! 03:51:52 s/ applet// 03:51:55 my statement is still valid 03:51:59 I need 18 hours of beauty sleep 03:52:00 comex: Minecraft is A java?!?!?! 03:52:03 (the beauty is somewhat lacking) 03:52:05 You don't have to make random transfers on the plai1 03:52:06 :' 03:52:07 copumpkin: don't sleep ever 03:52:23 copumpkin: more fucking weetabix 03:52:23 now 03:52:24 god damn 03:52:26 Plail. PLAIL. 03:52:32 copumpkin: WEETABIX 03:52:36 * copumpkin forcefeeds elliott WEETABIX 03:52:37 me finds this hilarious 03:52:40 no 03:52:43 forcefeed YOURSELF 03:53:12 elliott `>> [ clone. ] 03:53:13 copumpkin: EAT SOME FUCKING WEETABIX FUCKFACE 03:53:20 * copumpkin hides 03:53:29 Wait. 03:53:36 Why would I ever, ever do that 03:53:43 Give elliott even 1 clone-child 03:53:56 -!- elliott has set topic: MOTHERFUCKING WEETABIX | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MOTHERFUCKING MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | WEETABIX FUCKING WEETABIX. 03:54:02 ....that sounded far, far wronger than I meant 03:54:07 -!- elliott has set topic: MOTHERFUCKING WEETABIX | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MOTHERFUCKING MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | WEETABIX, FUCKING WEETABIX. 03:54:14 to preempt sgeo 03:54:17 copumpkin: WEETABIX OR BUST 03:54:28 wha? 03:55:13 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:55:47 :o 03:56:07 weetafux 03:56:08 okay you convinced me 03:56:11 copumpkin: WEETABIX OR WEETABIX 03:56:11 YAY 03:56:12 MORE WEETABIX 03:56:14 i never understood why people ate that 03:56:16 I'll eat more weetabix 03:56:21 cheater00: they're yummy 03:56:23 :))))) 03:56:35 it's like a piece of wasa bread 03:56:37 in your milk 03:56:46 soaked 03:56:49 and soggy 03:56:54 copumpkin: i have a 03:56:54 yumy 03:56:55 i could never get it, maybe i'm using them wrong 03:56:55 serving suggestion 03:56:58 for your weetabix 03:57:00 serve it with more weetabix 03:57:03 I have no bacon 03:57:15 i just put them in the milk and it gets soggy and crappy and boring 03:57:21 the weetabix thing that is 03:58:15 copumpkin 03:58:18 make my function prettier 03:58:20 /more efficient 03:58:30 ordering cs = 03:58:30 let (g,v2n,n2v) = 03:58:30 Graph.graphFromEdges . Set.toList . Set.map (\c -> (c, c, deps c)) $ cs 03:58:30 in reverse . map (\v -> case v2n v of (c,_,_) -> c) . Graph.topSort $ g 03:58:36 right now it relies on changes themselves being Ord 03:58:40 since they're used as the key 03:58:42 which is bleh :( 03:59:11 graphs suck 03:59:13 It's sad that the only language or platform that has solved the module issue to my satisfaction thus far is JAVA 03:59:17 Fucking JAVA 03:59:17 I'm going to make them suck less in haskell someday 03:59:23 but for now, I can't, sorry 03:59:29 if java has solved your module issue 03:59:31 your issue is wrong 03:59:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:59:50 copumpkin: i don't really mind the api, i just want you to fix the function :( 04:00:03 NO 04:00:05 maybe i'll abstract a way a change-ref (i.e. object id) and use that as the key. 04:00:11 which i have to do anyway 04:00:12 but 04:00:13 Java has no conflicting packages whose names are the same 04:00:14 it would be so ugly 04:00:21 Or at least, if people weren't idiots, it wouldn't 04:00:25 Sgeo: yes it does 04:00:28 foo.org.blah 04:00:29 foo.org expires 04:00:31 Why can I not make a warning about converting a integer to a pointer without a cast, into error, without making other warnings also errors? 04:00:32 new owner takes it up 04:00:33 Ooh 04:00:34 foo.org.blah 04:00:39 OH SNAP 04:00:56 Sgeo: the only solution to your problem is having the cryptographic hash of the API be the hash's name (tuomov has proposed this solution) 04:01:58 Sgeo: what about python? 04:03:09 Can you just use #line if you want the compiler to emit an error message for compile-time-assertions? 04:03:21 (Such as arrays that conditionally have negative size) 04:03:31 (I have tried this, and it works) 04:04:14 The command in the new C specification that says you can make compile-time-assertions is unnecessary, I think. 04:05:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvyaGhc1mg 04:05:31 pure awesome 04:05:32 elliott, there's another solution, that I think Newspeak is heading in 04:05:45 Sgeo: being? 04:05:49 Have names not need to be unique within a system. 04:06:19 Sgeo: that doesn't really solve any problem unless you're more specific. 04:06:42 Sgeo: What are you trying to make? 04:07:03 Suppose you have two packages named Foobar. No packakages that use either Foobar have the name Foobar forcefully encoded in 04:07:07 Just as documentation 04:07:23 The user might call one copy of Foobar Foobar_to_do_this and the other Foobar_to_do_that 04:07:26 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:07:36 Hook each up to wherever it needs to go in the IDE 04:07:37 Sgeo: The problem is, of course, that every time you use a module at the top level, you have to give it EVERY FUCKING MODULE THERE IS. 04:08:38 No, just the ones it needs. And if you don't have duplicate names in a system yet, the IDE does it automatically perhaps 04:08:57 Sgeo: (1) That's what I meant. Consider something that needs 30 modules. 04:09:26 Sgeo: (2) So basically, duplicate names are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING to the point where you'd never want them anyway (and you're handwaving language issues by diverting them to some "IDE" that is well beyond the well-defined accepted scope of an IDE) 04:10:06 elliott: In what programming language? Java? 04:10:12 Newspeak. 04:10:30 Note: I am not on the Newspeak team. Just imagining where I think it would go 04:10:51 OK I found it on Wikipedia now. 04:11:22 elliott, instead of saying "IDE", is a config file better? 04:11:29 Sgeo: No, not really. 04:11:34 Name conflicts are still a horrific pain with that system. 04:11:46 elliott, at least they can be dealt with 04:11:53 For instance, a module can't use a module X, and also use another module that wants a different module called X. 04:11:55 Sgeo: They shouldn't be. 04:12:20 elliott, yes, it can? 04:12:24 (I avoid using Google whenever possible, so sometimes I search for things on Wikipedia instead.) 04:12:28 No, it can't? 04:13:13 Hook up other module's X to the X it wants, and main module's X to the X it wants 04:13:41 I see, so you get a horrible tangle if two commonly-used modules use different modules named X. 04:13:48 Not to mention that EVEN IF YOU CONFIGURE IT CORRECTLY, 04:13:57 you're going to have a world of confusion as you try and talk about it: 04:14:04 "So X1 does blah, and ..." "Which one is X1 again?" 04:14:08 "The one that does X." "They both do X." 04:14:17 That is why they need to add a command to rename modules. 04:14:23 "Uhh, the one that Poophead wrote." "Oh. Is that the one with the API that looks like turds or the API that looks like turdy turds?" 04:14:25 "Turdy turds." 04:14:35 "*looks at the code* No, that's the other one." 04:14:36 "Oops." 04:14:42 (Like the ALIAS command in Visual Basic, I guess.) 04:18:00 elliott, so it's not perfect, it can still be better than the rest 04:18:08 Not really. 04:18:16 I don't remember the last time I actually saw a naming conflict. 04:18:27 I have to wonder why you are obsessed with them. 04:19:02 Because the idea of their existence horrifies me 04:19:12 Horrifies. 04:19:15 Are you sure you want to use that word. 04:19:19 Does it not strike you as too strong 04:19:41 Does the word hyperbole strike you as a bit too.. 04:20:10 Considering you've talked about some random pseudoscientific book as making you physically ill, I really don't think I can assume hyperbole any more. 04:23:33 I wonder if the archive of tuomov's blog is complete. 04:23:52 Perhaps I could ask tuomov for the missing posts if not. 04:26:22 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:37:57 Sgeo: Here is tuomov's post about APIs and modules. http://tuomov.bitcheese.net/b/archives/2007/07/16/T22_41_22 04:41:15 Sgeo: You should read it. 04:41:20 I a 04:41:21 am 04:42:17 Yeah, the archive is not complete it seems ... 04:43:42 * Sgeo is tired 04:43:48 And not in the best of moods 04:43:49 Less tired, more reading! 04:45:13 Oh man, scapegoat is gonna rock. 04:49:22 http://bugs.darcs.net/issue64 <-- finally fucking resolved 04:49:23 Sgeo: Read it? 04:49:28 YES 04:49:34 Sgeo: Enlightened? 04:49:34 I DID 04:49:38 Sgeo: Enlightened? 04:49:45 I don't care right now 04:50:09 Darcs is anti-tf8? 04:50:12 Oh, you said resulved 04:50:14 ressolved 04:50:17 fuck it 04:50:38 o_O 04:50:41 Sgeo: You seem...disturbed. 04:50:50 She's still not online 04:52:47 Missing the bus and calling at the last limit ... (presumably) implying she'd be online and then not being so... Hmmmmmmmm. 04:52:49 I am going to sleep now. 04:53:04 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:53:15 She didn't know that it takes me so long to get to the mall 04:54:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: I need silence right now). 04:56:43 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 04:57:42 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:07:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:14:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:33:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:33:12 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:34:02 I need a new graphics card. 05:34:07 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 05:34:49 With ATi, I've got a choice of: slightly unstable drivers, or slightly unstable drivers *that fucking glitch like crazy* (those being the "official" drivers). 05:39:03 Seriously, the official drivers suck balls. 05:40:19 i believed you the first time 05:40:53 quintopia: It needs to be said often. 05:41:28 Also, Flash is a monstrosity and Adobe should be murdered for it. 05:41:53 I don't care if it's impractical to murder an international megacorp, either! 05:44:11 well, bombing their headquarters doesn't seem so infeasible at least 05:45:52 < sean_> inglip would kick zalgo's ass 05:46:03 what shall i tell him? 05:48:20 quickly, bring pie 05:50:04 Hah... Another piece of drivel promoting fantasy "mediterrainian diet". 05:52:27 "extra virgin olive oil and canola oil in place of saturated and trans fats" ... Yeah, right... Maybe they use _some_ olive oil (cold-pressed)... But sure no rancid-at-the-shelves canola/rapeseed oil... 05:53:04 And then there's the French paradox... 05:56:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:04:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:05:43 French Paradox: Why do French have so little heart disease even if their saturated fat consumption is so high? 06:07:43 Answer: correlation ≠ causation. 06:17:36 I'm certain my away message is a quote from some Simpsons book, a guide to either Simpsons episodes or to Springfield 06:17:40 But Google turns up nothing 06:17:41 :( 06:17:43 Night all 06:24:48 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:32:31 -!- quintopia has joined. 06:39:14 GAH! 06:40:22 Star Wars trilogies are getting yet *another* modified rerelease. Though the prequels probably can't be made much *worse* by Lucas, I wonder how fucking awful he's going to be to the original trilogy this time. 06:58:39 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 06:58:41 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:10:43 Lagerholm estimate is now below 7 days... The estimate for today will come in about 1.5 hours... But I doubt it is going to be more optimistic... 07:10:54 Current burnrate in used /8 per month: 1.84 07:16:32 HURRR... http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/fig25.png 07:16:47 Is that some sort of data processing error??? 07:18:16 And for extra fun, APNIC seems to be handing out about half of the addresses... 07:26:54 Probably more pessimistic, if anything. 07:33:54 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 07:36:38 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:41:53 -!- amca has quit (Quit: Farewell). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:37:27 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 08:40:16 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:42:04 Now the estimate is today (of course, being Saturday, it is not likely that anything happens before monday... 08:42:48 Last 5 days large allocations: 6.5Mi 08:45:46 Okay, these predictions are quite messed up... 08:49:49 The fastest case is APNIC having requested the blocks on Friday (and IANA has not yet processed the request...) 09:00:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:16:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:16:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:16:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:16:46 Been discussing Weetabix, have we? 09:20:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:35:01 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:39:57 Lagerholm estimate is today. 09:40:01 Wow. 09:40:23 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 09:40:52 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:59:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:00:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:05:36 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined. 10:07:43 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:09:11 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 10:11:38 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:15:16 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:18:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: ilua). 10:21:40 Wow, they already updated Painterly. 10:21:50 That is astonishing. 10:29:07 -!- bc98270 has joined. 10:37:17 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 10:37:42 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:39:14 -!- cheater00 has joined. 10:39:31 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 10:39:54 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:40:00 suck 10:41:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:42:03 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:56:02 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 10:57:59 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:58:10 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined. 11:01:08 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:02:46 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 11:05:10 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:09:53 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 11:12:43 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:14:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:16:32 -!- bc98270 has quit (Quit: question = ( to ) ? be : ! be; -- Wm. Shakespeare). 11:24:13 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:38:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:39:24 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 11:40:11 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:18:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:27:03 o 13:27:07 hi ais, how's up 13:33:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:41:39 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:09:35 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:10:35 -!- cheater00 has joined. 14:43:14 YouTube comments will never cease to destroy my faith in humanity. 14:44:00 Example? 14:44:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEATei2wewY&feature=related 14:44:39 First listen to the soundtrack. Then read the comments. 14:45:32 Half of them are right-wing screeching. 14:51:19 I was wondering where I heard that song 14:59:48 Heh... I just remembered that my earlier estimate of IANA IPv4 depletion estimate was mid-January... Lagerholm estimate is now "any moment now"... 15:01:12 How do we know when it happens? 15:01:34 i'm pretty sure it'll be all over reddit 15:09:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IaJ8bec8fg 15:09:29 Is that a bug? 15:10:10 Sgeo, if that's not been fixed, it's insanely useful. 15:10:24 It has been fixed. Damn. 15:10:31 Linky? 15:13:22 Meh 15:13:39 Sgeo, look at the comments. 15:13:50 On a different vid: "I don't know why this never occurred to me. What a great method. xD Once buckets are fixed in multiplayer, I'm going to use this on the obsidian tower I'm building." 15:13:58 What's wrong with buckets in multiplayer? 15:14:21 They were a bit unreliable IIRC. 15:18:20 Exactly how mathematical is the average CS curriculum? 15:22:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:34:04 I don't know about average, but here it's: not very, unless you deliberately choose courses to make it so. 15:50:50 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 15:53:56 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:03:15 ineiros, have you updated the server yet? 16:03:29 * Sgeo is in a good mood 16:05:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:08:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:10:44 Sgeo, does it turn out that KT-AT plays AW as well? 16:10:53 No 16:11:06 Although I did show her Cybertown a while ago 16:11:09 Wait, no. If that were the case, Sgeo would be far too busy being paralysed with joy. 16:11:10 Just briefly though 16:11:18 Sgeo, oh god. 16:12:04 EXTREMELY GOOD ADVICE: do NOT attempt to serenade her. Particularly not with "I see a red robe and I want to paint it black". 16:12:28 I don't know if she was bored. I do know she was once bored when I was describing some computer thing. And it's not like we haven't done anything that bored me 16:13:08 Sgeo, you are only allowed to liveblog in the event of impending trollpocalypse. 16:13:49 Did I ever mention the time that I took a journal to school and wrote about what happened as, or shortly after, it happened? 16:16:19 wow 16:16:29 that sounds like the most boring journal ever 16:16:58 Particularly given Sgeo's academic career. 16:17:12 Not boring 16:17:14 I think 16:17:21 i.e. being sent to a 5th-rate college because his dad is a total smeghead. 16:17:21 But you'd think I was a pervert perhaps 16:17:29 Also, this was in highschool 16:17:55 Sgeo, o god please tell me you weren't writing down your fantasies. 16:18:19 and please say they didn't involve urination 16:20:40 fungot, please tell me he wasn't writing down his urolagnic fantasies. 16:20:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:20:40 Phantom_Hoover: this program is linked into the market-o-matic, thinking that i claim no special effort to keep solaris his sign of the 16:20:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:20:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 16:20:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:21:08 fungot, please tell me he wasn't writing down his urolagnic fantasies. 16:21:08 Phantom_Hoover: claimed that the victim) subject:re: `which foo` error message 16:21:43 Oh, right. 16:21:49 Effing connection. 16:22:30 "Today, 3/9/07, begins my Era of Documentation. A while ago, my Dad told me not to use LiveJournal as a private journal. I wish I disobeyed him sooner." 16:22:55 should have listened to him :/ 16:23:13 and here in turku it's even less mathematical than in helsinki 16:23:16 cs 16:23:20 Why is this computer unable to competently hold onto a wireless network. 16:23:26 afaiu 16:23:52 Phantom_Hoover: why no wired connection 16:24:01 Phantom_Hoover, when I'm on Linux and at school, I have the same problem 16:24:17 Wow, Weetabix looks extremely gross :P 16:24:37 quintopia, because I live in a hundred-year-old house and as such it was not designed with easy Ethernet cable access in mind. 16:24:37 "Here is a dense, solid block of cereal product. Digest it." 16:24:58 Phantom_Hoover: oh i know how that goes :/ 16:25:11 Sgeo, wait, you actually disobeyed your father over something> 16:25:20 Gregor: no u look like a solid block 16:25:25 Since 2007 or so, all the time 16:25:43 Sgeo, before or after you let him pick your college? 16:25:53 Slightly before 16:25:59 Gregor: Holy crap, it's Industrial Food Product. 16:26:11 I didn't say I disobey him on everything 16:26:13 Well. More so than the rest of an American diet. 16:26:29 Just things like having my name on Facebook, talking to people about him, etc. 16:26:40 Sgeo, it's called Farmingdale. 16:26:42 Farming. Dale. 16:27:09 They thought "Farming" did not indicate how rustic they were. 16:27:19 So they stuck "dale" on the end. 16:27:23 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 16:27:43 That alone should indicate that you ignore anyone who says it's a good place to study computers. 16:28:04 well computer science is a bit gay anyway 16:28:06 ... He goes to a college called *Farmingdale*? 16:28:09 Yes. 16:28:13 it sounds like a knock-off social networking game 16:28:13 oklopol: Farming is not. 16:28:22 Gregor: it's a man's job! 16:28:25 pikhq, no, it's located in a place called Farmingdale 16:28:40 Sgeo, the point still stands. 16:28:49 i'm not sure what that was an argument for, exactly 16:29:03 oklopol: And there's nothing more manly than a man in another man's embrace! 16:29:08 -!- Behold has joined. 16:29:13 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:29:22 Sgeo: My intelligence informs me that it's SUNY Farmingdale, or formerly, Long Island Agricultural and Technical Institute. 16:29:28 let's all give up computers, move to PA, stop shaving our beards, and farm! 16:29:57 oklopol: Computer science is gay? Okay, then. Where's a phallus... 16:29:59 pikhq, awful, isn't it. 16:30:13 pikhq, well, it's... what I meant is that it's not called that because the college just decided "Hey, Farmingdale is an awesome name for a college", which is what I thought you meant. 16:30:54 Sgeo: Dear God man, you'd have a more respectible education at Devry. And those people ride the short bus! 16:31:05 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:31:05 * Sgeo gets offended at pikhq 16:31:37 Your dad offends my sensibilities! 16:31:40 he may be offensive...but he may be right... 16:31:48 pikhq, he offends everyone's sensibilities. 16:31:56 respectable education is a bit gay anyway 16:32:00 Phantom_Hoover: Except apparently Sgeo's. 16:32:11 Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF5yBBf-1ps 16:32:16 pikhq: My dad tells me he regularly has this conversation at work: "My son got into {Devry,University of Phoenix,Other Boxtop University}." "That's nice, my son is a doctoral student at Purdue." "*fume*" 16:32:22 OK, so it's not relevant at all, but it's funny. 16:32:38 "This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds." 16:32:48 Gregor: ... Who would be *proud* of being a student at one of those boxtop universities? 16:32:48 Sgeo, NO SOUP FOR YOU 16:32:52 oklopol: you're slowly convincing me that I should go gay. keep it up and I'll soon be asking you to undress... 16:32:58 Gregor: My community college has stricter requirements. 16:33:22 quintopia: i'm always naked when i'm on irc 16:33:28 oklopol: Pencils are phallic, and we know what Freud has to say about phallic objects. 16:33:29 * Phantom_Hoover laughs at the pathetic Americans. 16:33:40 quintopia: But ... he's some scrawny little Finnish twink :P 16:33:40 oklopol: dicks or GTFO 16:34:02 And someone tell me what a boxtop university is. 16:34:05 Gregor: do you have your hat on? 16:34:15 quintopia: Always! 16:34:23 i'm not at all scrawny 16:34:27 Phantom_Hoover: one you get a scholarship to by mailing weetabix tops 16:34:37 Ah, right. 16:35:02 Phantom_Hoover: One of a few for-profit colleges which exist *largely* for the purpose of soaking up federal financial aid from students. 16:35:09 well, i was recently told i'm "surprisingly fat" when i told them my weight, i'm not sure how to interpret that 16:35:26 * Gregor is trying to remember which boxtop university it is that's in the /mall/ in Portland. 16:35:44 You can get into them if you are capable of breathing, just about, and their degrees have similar value to a high school diploma. 16:36:00 Apollo College, that's right. 16:36:18 When you go to college in a mall, then you need to reconsider your life decisions :P 16:36:25 pikhq, is there a way to confirm that my college isn't one of them? 16:36:42 [It doesn't sound like one. I think] 16:36:51 Sgeo, why, exactly, did your dad send you there? 16:36:52 Sgeo: SUNY isn't one of them, it's just a piss-poor choice for you. 16:36:54 Gregor: you don't have to move to find work after college, the mall and the uni have a deal 16:37:02 "Because he's a smeghead" excepted. 16:37:03 oklopol: X-D 16:37:46 Easy commute + not as competitive 16:37:56 is competitive bad? 16:38:02 oklopol: i do happen to be naked at the moment, and for some reason my bathwater won't get above lukewarm today :/ 16:38:08 i wish we had even the slightest bit of competition here 16:38:21 quintopia, you're on your computer in the bath? 16:38:36 sgeo: my droid 16:38:40 oklopol, my dad's convinced that I have difficulties getting homework done 16:38:55 As much as I wish I could say I thought he was wrong... 16:38:56 Sgeo: It's a bit like getting a CS degree from The Institute of Everything Un-Technical. Even if the institute is the best thing ever, *you're a fucking moron* for getting a CS degree there. 16:39:00 ("motorola milestone" in other parts of the world) 16:39:21 Sgeo: however, if you went to a competitive university, you might start doing homework, because it would have a point. 16:39:25 oklopol, my dad's convinced that I have difficulties getting homework done ← I have difficulties getting homework done. Getting homework done doesn't matter. 16:39:29 the point being the competition 16:40:07 well i suppose you might drop out if you sucked ass 16:40:11 which is what you meant 16:40:57 sgeo: i recommend you transfer somewhere better at the earliest available opportunity 16:41:34 Phantom_Hoover: at uni, it matters for the first few years tho 16:41:52 after that, you'll have your own research to do anyway, so homework is just a sidejob 16:41:55 oklopol, not at Sgeo's. 16:42:37 Phantom_Hoover: well no but i mean whereever you'll go 16:42:47 if you're going to 16:42:57 assuming Sgeo's university is as crappy as i hear 16:43:32 it's not the uni that's crappy, it's his program 16:44:38 ... Holy crap they don't even *offer* computer science. 16:44:49 They offer "computer programming & information systems". 16:45:01 pikhq, yes 16:45:09 They had a CS program once 16:45:12 pikhq: that's also the case in turku :\ although partly because our math department has all the good cs 16:45:50 "Data structures" is an optional class and it's 300 level! 16:45:59 They had a CS program once ← "once" 16:46:14 It requires business classes! 16:46:19 I don't think Data Structures is optional 16:46:55 Sgeo: I'm looking at the degree requirements. Only required in the "programming track". 16:47:25 -!- charlvn has joined. 16:47:41 Sgeo: BTW: data structures in most CS programs is a freshman course. 16:47:53 ....what? Seriously? 16:48:13 yes you seriously need to transfer asap 16:49:00 And *holy God* the math requirements are light. 16:49:01 Can I get a Bachlor's here, and then do stuff at a more interesting place? 16:49:10 pikhq, there are math requirements? 16:49:18 Calc I and "Probability methods". 16:49:30 calc 1 is like some precalc shit or? 16:49:39 Sgeo: Most places I've looked, a CS degree gets you a math minor for free. 16:49:42 sgeo: just transfer now and get a bachelor's elsewhere 16:49:46 "here's the rules you learned in high school PLUS 5 MORE!" 16:49:53 oklopol: It's the first of three courses on the calculus of integrals and derivatives. 16:50:08 pikhq: i got a dual major with just like two or so more classes 16:50:27 quintopia: Yeah, I'm getting a math degree for 3 extra credit hours. 16:50:39 At least around here you can't include the same course (credit-point-wise) in multiple "modules". 16:50:59 fizzie: here you can :P 16:51:03 quintopia: But if I literally *didn't try*, I would have a math minor. 16:51:04 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:51:07 So getting a second minor is automatical +20 or +30 credits or however much it was. 16:51:08 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:51:33 fizzie: Here it's entirely accepted practice. 16:51:34 they only require that you take X extra hours that aren't for the primary major 16:51:35 Anyway, it's a bit problematical in fact when you're taking two minors (or a major and minor) that have a lot of overlapping classes, since you then need to invent credit points for the second. 16:51:46 electives are completely double-dippable 16:51:46 oklopol: It's the first of three courses on the calculus of integrals and derivatives. ← so you do polynomials and that's it? 16:52:04 So, there's no way I could just get a Bachelor's here, and ..whatever the next thing is at Stony Brook? 16:52:06 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:52:11 -!- charlvn has joined. 16:52:21 Phantom_Hoover: No, you do 2 dimensional integrals and derivatives. And that's about it. 16:52:33 2 dimensional? 16:52:38 Sgeo: You would have serious trouble going into grad school with that. 16:52:44 fizzie: it's kinda weird there's actually no way to get a major from both math and cs, since there are just not enough courses 16:52:57 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, on functions of single arguments? 16:53:06 i mean, if you've done the stuff required for the degree, why can't you have it... 16:53:22 pikhq, what, so you mean you only work with f(x) rather than f(x,y)? 16:53:29 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah. 16:53:32 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:53:53 pikhq, erm, here in Scotland you never even touch on multivariate functions. 16:54:07 Phantom_Hoover: Calc III covers calculus on multivariate functions. 16:54:43 -!- charlvn has joined. 16:54:49 we have a course called multivariate functions, but it's given by a very old guy, so it's way too hard for everybody 16:54:49 Aand calc II is a mishmash of various topics that didn't get covered in calc I. 16:55:16 AAAAGH 16:55:17 the old dudes still think like students should actually work for the courses 16:55:27 "like"? 16:55:32 Sgeo: You can take "Foundations of Programming I" *or* "Programming in Visual Basic". 16:55:41 pikhq: is that a joke? :D 16:55:53 oklopol: No. 16:55:58 i can't stop laughing 16:56:08 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:56:19 pikhq, I can only conclude that it is educating farmers in CS applicable to sheep feeders. 16:56:29 Sgeo: Frankly, I'd be worried about your courses *transferring*. 16:56:36 Phantom_Hoover: It's not even a CS degree! 16:57:15 -!- charlvn has joined. 16:58:00 * Phantom_Hoover tries to remember how many universities there are in Edinburgh, fails. 16:58:24 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:58:33 Looks like it's two. 16:58:51 are you in edinburg ph 16:59:03 *Edinburgh. And yes, I am. 16:59:07 i was there just recently, we could've played the bagpipe together 16:59:08 oh sorry 16:59:15 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 16:59:22 Bagpipes: WORST THING EVER 16:59:27 -!- charlvn has joined. 16:59:34 well eaten haggis then' 16:59:37 worn kilt 16:59:44 I've never worn a kilt, either. 16:59:46 drinking beer 16:59:49 having sex with sheep 16:59:58 fuck do i know what you ppl do in your spare time 16:59:59 That's Wales, you fool. 17:00:02 oh sry 17:00:26 HEY 17:00:30 Bagpipes are great. 17:00:34 Almost as good as accordions. 17:00:39 You're also required at Sgeo's school to take "Management Theories and Practices"... 17:00:41 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:00:50 Gregor, not when you can't go anywhere near the city centre without hearing them! 17:00:55 ... He's required to take more business classes than math classes! 17:01:24 Sgeo: Your degree is a joke. 17:02:56 Wait, which college does he go to again? 17:03:07 haha i wonder if they teach Sgeo to mind his own business haha 17:03:23 (Also, why do you Americans not have universities? Why is it all colleges?) 17:03:24 Phantom_Hoover: SUNY Farmingdale. 17:03:46 Phantom_Hoover: And we do have universities; we just tend to refer to any degree-granting institution as a "college". 17:03:58 Including universities. 17:04:05 Sgeo: which do you regret more, going to fd or mentioning it here? :D 17:04:15 Going to FD 17:04:29 Although there were some nice things social-wise 17:04:38 AFAIU colleges here are either constituents of universities or places that do some kind of vocational training. 17:04:54 Phantom_Hoover: Colleges are *also* constituents of universities here... 17:05:05 Phantom_Hoover: In addition to being any degree-granting institution. 17:05:09 Phantom_Hoover: And we do have universities; we just tend to refer to any degree-granting institution as a "college". // uhh ... no? 17:05:22 Well, yeah, I guess so ... implicitly. 17:05:31 You say "I go to college" even if you go to a university. 17:05:46 You say "college degree" even if it's from a univeristy. 17:06:00 You actually *call* it a college even if it's a university... 17:06:30 You guys have for-profit universities. 17:06:36 What. 17:07:17 Phantom_Hoover: Arguably, even our public universities are for-profit. 17:07:21 usa has for-profit free food for the poor organizations 17:07:23 here, colleges are not universities 17:07:25 at all 17:07:34 The USA also has for-proift prisons. 17:07:57 pikhq: inmates don't get to vote right? 17:08:08 coppro: It depends on the state, actually. 17:10:19 "Two states—Maine and Vermont—allow prison inmates to vote." 17:10:30 good for them 17:10:39 (inmates got the vote here thanks to the Charter( 17:11:02 Disenfranchisement is considered elsewhere to be part of the punishment for crime *shrugs* 17:11:11 If people actually cared about voting, then it would be a legit punishment :P 17:11:30 the problem is that by denying inmates the right to vote, you effectively deny any useful commentary on the prison system 17:11:30 Two states disenfranchise all felons. Even after their sentence is done. 17:11:42 since the only users of a prison get no say 17:11:44 wow 17:11:53 Arizona and Texas? 17:11:58 Kentucky and Virginia. 17:12:02 darn :( 17:12:14 that sounds surprisingly liberal for texas 17:12:40 Texas isn't completely *nuts*. 17:14:42 push button, receive bacon 17:15:01 pikhq, is the justification "being tough on crime"? 17:15:28 -!- BMG has joined. 17:16:08 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:16:11 Phantom_Hoover: Yup! 17:16:11 Hi :-) 17:16:19 cheater00: Push button, receive weetabix D'AWWWW 17:16:20 coppro: most prison inmates never voted a day in their life, and even if they all did, they'd still be in the minority 17:16:45 It's only old people that vote in the US. 17:17:14 So, the politics tends to trail decades behind. 17:17:16 We vote with student riots in the U.K. 17:17:17 hence the AARP being the biggest most powerful PAC 17:17:33 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:21:10 AARP and PAC? 17:22:22 =old people's society and =lobbying organization 17:23:08 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host). 17:23:08 -!- BMG has joined. 17:23:12 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 17:23:54 quintopia, that is quite possibly the most hilarious thing I have heard about US politics. 17:24:10 Your country. Is ruled. By an old people's organisation. 17:24:44 all the major politicians are old people too. at least the president is young 17:35:09 -!- charlvn has joined. 17:37:25 fun "microcode error detected" from wlan card. rmmod and modprobe worked 17:39:49 AAAAAARRRRGGGGH my architecture has failed! 17:40:00 There is a spider on top of the shaft to my mines! 17:40:24 haha sucks to be you 17:44:17 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:46:05 -!- cheater00 has joined. 17:58:25 -!- elliott has joined. 17:58:48 elliott, oh, you came just too late. 17:58:54 Oh god what did I miss. 17:59:57 pikhq was telling Sgeo that his college is the worst ever, in detail. 18:00:11 Did Sgeo listen? 18:00:18 (Turns out they do more management courses than mathematical ones.) 18:00:18 02:21:40 Wow, they already updated Painterly. 18:00:18 02:21:50 That is astonishing. 18:00:21 It's only 16x16. :p 18:03:49 I've never worn a kilt, either. <-- YOU'RE NO TRUE SCOTSMAN! 18:04:07 oerjan, nope. 18:05:18 08:24:17 Wow, Weetabix looks extremely gross :P 18:05:18 08:24:37 "Here is a dense, solid block of cereal product. Digest it." 18:05:20 TRAITOR OF WEETABIX 18:05:22 DESTROYER OF SOULS 18:09:31 -!- Behold has joined. 18:09:45 08:37:46 Easy commute + not as competitive ← wait, surely you could, y'know, live away from home. 18:09:58 UNTHINKABLE HIS DAD WOULD BEAT HIM INTO A BLOODY PULP 18:10:01 08:32:52 oklopol: you're slowly convincing me that I should go gay. keep it up and I'll soon be asking you to undress... 18:10:02 Hey, it's just like 2008! 18:10:52 I was never allowed to go to sleep-away camp as a kid 18:10:58 My parents thought I wouldn't eat. 18:11:02 Sgeo, ... 18:11:16 They *thought* that. 18:11:25 I need live advice, people: do I laugh, or do I curl into a ball and cry on Sgeo's behalf? 18:11:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:29 I can do both, but I need to know the order. 18:11:39 "No, Seth, you can't go to camp, you won't eat." "But I LIKE eating!" "Not at camp, you won't." 18:11:47 elliott: simultaneously 18:11:52 Isn't it well-known that Sgeo doesn't actually like eating at all. 18:11:59 What elliott said. 18:12:01 08:36:25 pikhq, is there a way to confirm that my college isn't one of them? 18:12:02 08:36:42 [It doesn't sound like one. I think] 18:12:02 Let me think... SUNY... STATE UNIVERSITY of New York ... hmm ... state university ... hmmmmmmmmmm 18:12:15 Probably an independent, for-profit corporation. 18:12:22 Sgeo, why the hell did they think you wouldn't eat? 18:12:29 Do you have a habit of not eating? 18:12:32 Yes 18:12:40 Phantom_Hoover: You don't know this ...? 18:12:51 Huh. 18:13:01 elliott, why exactly would I? 18:13:08 Phantom_Hoover: Because it comes up all the time? 18:13:13 It does? 18:13:18 I thought he just didn't sleep. 18:13:19 Well, in Sgeoland. 18:13:32 My sleep issues are relatively recent! 18:13:44 Sgeo: next, breathing! 18:13:47 "But my eating issues you can RELY on! 18:13:48 *on!" 18:14:30 Sgeo, so you can't live in student accommodation because you won't eat? 18:14:56 i can set up a bot to order you to eat at regular intervals 18:14:58 if that would help 18:15:02 :D 18:15:09 My step-mom's convinced that my unwillingness to organize and throw stuff out in this messy house is an indication that I can't live on my own 18:15:17 [My step-mom's crazier than my dad] 18:15:25 Sgeo, Christ. 18:15:36 Sgeo's step mother has never seen student accommodation. 18:15:36 How the hell can someone be crazier than your dad? 18:15:41 And believes it to be a place of cleanliness and perfection 18:16:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:16:34 "You're not allowed to date non-Jewish girls" "You're ill" 18:16:38 Sgeo, that offer to kidnap your father is now extended to murdering your stepmother. 18:17:00 "You're not allowed to date non-Jewish girls" <-- bitch 18:17:10 Sgeo, *murdering your stepmother very painfully 18:17:19 with a fork? 18:17:22 gotta have the forks 18:17:36 lawl, wtf 18:17:41 Since when is Sgeo even Jewish? 18:17:54 Gregor, dunno. 18:17:56 She also says that that my mom wanted me to only date Jewish girls. While I think my mom would prefer it slightly, I don't think she was that strict about it" 18:18:01 Besides, the Jewish side of my family says things more like "You're not allowed to date Jewish girls." 18:18:45 Sgeo, why did you not just spit in her face at this point? 18:19:08 Spit ACID IN HER FACE 18:19:14 Bonus points for not melting your tongue and gums firts 18:19:15 *first 18:21:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:21:04 Sgeo: i'm not sure if it's been mentioned enough but you should transfer to another college right now before it's too late and you get a useless degree that gets you nowhere at all ever 18:21:06 * oerjan now imagines Sgeo always wearing hasidic garb 18:21:08 just sayin' 18:21:12 PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA? 18:21:31 alternatively drop out because you could just scribble some crayons on a piece of blank paper and get a degree of similar usefulness 18:21:38 Sgeo, say you're going on a date with KT-AT and NEVER COME BACK 18:21:49 Phantom_Hoover: TRYING TO OFFER SERIOUS LIFE ADVICE HERE 18:21:50 KTHX 18:22:49 i'm sure Sgeo is aware that he could just leave if he liked 18:23:04 But my degree is almost done! 18:23:04 oklopol: i'm not sure he's aware that it's the only sane option 18:23:11 18:23:16 Sgeo, the degree will *decrease* your prospects. 18:23:18 Sgeo: And...then what? You're not gonna get into grad school with it ... 18:23:37 Sgeo: If you transfer it's not like you're going to have to start at square one... 18:23:38 Not even at another SUNY school? 18:23:46 Can I get a degree and then transfer? 18:23:50 ...no. 18:23:58 You see, you get the degree when you *finish* college. 18:24:02 You transfer while you are *in* college. 18:24:17 Pretend he doesn't have a degree? 18:24:33 Can I do all the required courses for a degree, and just not get the degree? 18:24:40 of course 18:24:50 they don't just automatically give it to you 18:24:58 -!- j-invariant has joined. 18:24:59 Sgeo: Choice 1: (1) Finish useless degree. (2) Be unable to get into grad school. Choice 2: (1) Transfer to another college. (2) Finish good degree. (3) Get into grad school. Choice 3: what you said but why would you want to do that 18:25:25 Because the senior project sounds like something I need to do. Have a real project. 18:25:41 Because there won't be any "real projects" in another college ... 18:25:47 [SARCASM ALERT] 18:26:36 Sgeo, wait, how long have you been at university for? 18:26:37 it sounds like a drastic solution i know, but when all of #esoteric vehemently agrees...well, desperate times call for it 18:26:50 Phantom_Hoover, since beginning of 2008 18:27:01 Seriously. 18:27:05 You need to get out of that shithole. 18:27:15 Sgeo, so... 19? 18:27:26 as you said, sunk cost. best not to sink anymore 18:27:36 What'd you do between leaving school and then? 18:27:40 Because if you sink... you DROWN 18:27:56 Nothing. 18:28:05 It felt like a summer that wouldn't end 18:28:24 [I hate summers] 18:28:31 Sgeo, erm, you left school at 19? 18:28:40 Phantom_Hoover, um, hm 18:28:40 It was one of those freakish year-long summers. 18:28:43 No, 18 18:28:51 I think 18:29:02 elliott, just half a year 18:29:07 quintopia: do we need to go and tell sgeo to transfer in person 18:29:14 I'll get plane tickets 18:29:19 let's all do this together! 18:29:21 What were you doing that meant you sat around for the end of 2007? 18:29:35 elliott: fuck that. that's more work even than filling out the transfer papers for him and hell if i'm doing that. 18:29:44 Phantom_Hoover, my step-mom and dad wanted me to go to Israel for a little while. That didn't happen. 18:29:50 Sgeo, ... 18:29:52 Why. 18:29:53 lol 18:29:57 Phantom_Hoover: BECAUSE HE'S A GOOD JEW 18:30:08 quintopia: Yeah, but he'll give us less horrific stories if he gets out of there, and that's worth anything. 18:30:50 well, i suppose i would feel awful good about helping someone so desperately in need 18:31:00 and as long as you're buying the tix... 18:31:10 right 18:31:12 Sgeo: what's your address 18:31:33 somewhere near farmingdale ny obviously 18:31:35 i already asked him 18:31:39 wouldn't tell me 18:31:41 Farmingrusticruralpigagridaleshire. 18:31:46 oklopol: no shit sherlock 18:31:48 just like the rest of you people WHO I THOUGHT WERE MY FRIENDS 18:32:00 quintopia: ok we'll meet him AT the college then 18:32:12 elliott, with some chloroform? 18:32:13 i know his name and what he looks like when dressed in a fursuit^Wblood drop costue 18:32:15 *costume 18:32:16 I wonder how my dad would react if he met you 18:32:29 Sgeo: We'll never find out, because he'd be unconscious before he realised. 18:32:36 your dad would like me 18:32:40 i'm very likable 18:32:43 able babble 18:32:48 your dad would very much like me 18:32:49 babel abble 18:33:03 yeah he and quinn could have a beer together 18:33:04 because he likes people who are smarter than him, right? 18:33:13 yeah totally that's why he treats Sgeo like a king 18:33:22 I know what his head looks like when he's not in a bloodsuit. 18:33:29 quintopia: okay, so, if we meet him at farmingdale, we need to throw him into the back of a truck 18:33:35 and drive him to a good college 18:33:41 :D 18:33:43 He wouldn't like me, because I am extremely insufferable. 18:33:46 go up to the first official-looking person we see 18:33:47 say 18:33:58 "This poor man was in SUNY FARMINGDALE." 18:34:03 elliott: you rent the truck, i'll drive with my AMURRCAN driver's license 18:34:04 "And he didn't even KNOW the implications." 18:34:10 They will look horrified, and take him in. 18:34:22 quintopia: how does that plan sound to you 18:34:31 it's on 18:34:34 right 18:34:40 i'll buy tickets tomorrow 18:34:43 elliott, clearly you should chloroform him because you are stunted by malnourishment and as such he will suspect nothing. 18:34:47 why don't people kidnap each other just for giggles anymore 18:34:50 just to see the look on the poor official looking person's face 18:35:02 Phantom_Hoover: SGEO KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE STUNTED BY MALNOURISHMENT 18:35:05 oklopol: i miss the good ol' days 18:35:25 it's true. sgeo is mentally malnourished in farmingdale 18:35:37 09:17:16 We vote with student riots in the U.K. 18:35:40 that would be the greatest voting system 18:35:48 quintopia, naw, elliott is physically malnourished due to the Harrying of the North. 18:35:49 "WE DEMAND HIGHER PENSIONS FOR THE ELDERLY" 18:36:19 that...is how politics works in the U.S. 18:36:27 but are they all students 18:36:32 and do they actually count as votes 18:36:42 no, of course not 18:36:45 votes are worth nothing 18:36:52 riots actually accomplish things 18:37:14 i suggest a riot on sgeo's house 18:37:22 mostly because i dunno how you'd vote in sgeo's house 18:37:53 it's easy 18:37:54 elliott, votes are made by bludgeoning Sgeo's father and stepmother. 18:37:58 we all go in there 18:38:08 Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo doesn't live with his stepmother. 18:38:13 and we say "we're all having a vote on whether sgeo has to transfer" 18:38:18 Phantom_Hoover: THINGS I AM RAPIDLY TIRING OF: Remakes of random music in Minecraft. 18:38:19 we'll even let his parents vote too 18:38:34 only his dad gets a vote 18:38:37 wait does Sgeo get to vote 18:38:38 nah 18:38:39 obviously 18:38:42 I'm not tired of those yet 18:38:45 elliott, OK, different sides of Sgeo's father's body. 18:39:10 elliott: let's be fair and let everyone in the household vote. there can't be more than 5 of them and there are at least 20 of us... 18:39:19 quintopia: isn't it just Sgeo and his father. 18:39:23 how do you what we're going to vote 18:39:27 i wouldn't know 18:39:36 if so, they can both vote, why not? 18:39:55 i would hate to be accused of being unfair 18:39:58 Just me and my dad 18:40:03 that makes it easier 18:40:05 Bye, going to meet up with KT-AT 18:40:09 heh 18:40:16 Sgeo: if you moved 18:40:18 you could move 18:40:20 CLOSER TO KTAT 18:40:34 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:40:49 Phantom_Hoover: So I've been thinking about yellowstone (Notch feckin stole blue for lapis). 18:40:55 Sgeo, PRETEND SHE KIDNAPPED YOU 18:41:16 Phantom_Hoover: The opening of this video is the most amazing thing ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewFrgDPCgGA 18:41:27 Watch it. You will not regret it. 18:42:17 elliott, :D 18:44:25 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opuQmQy87x4 18:45:18 elliott: fog is a wonderful thing 18:49:54 Phantom_Hoover: I have an idea for an RNG in Minecraft. 18:50:03 As in, using only existing blocks. 18:50:29 There are already some pretty compact ones. 18:51:25 Phantom_Hoover: Um, what? 18:51:31 Phantom_Hoover: AFAIK nobody has made an RNG in Minecraft before. 18:51:33 Phantom_Hoover: I mean -- 18:51:36 Phantom_Hoover: One that seeds itself. 18:51:47 i.e., if you run the circuit multiple times, you'll get different results. 18:51:50 There's that one that was used for the creepy door. 18:51:53 Even if you restore a save. 18:51:59 Phantom_Hoover: What door? Also, it probably had a predefined seed. 18:52:43 A friend elsewhere has just said that Chrome logs your browsing history to Google. 18:52:53 Your friend is wrong. 18:53:11 See Preferences -> Under the Bonnet for an enumeration of all the communication Chrome does to Google. 18:53:12 tl;dr: 18:53:13 oh I see, the dispenser is a block 18:53:22 I tohught it was some funny trick with the smelter 18:53:22 When you put stuff in the address bar it tells Google, to get search results there. 18:53:34 It also uses the phishing/malware protection that, sure, sends domain names. 18:53:38 But they aren't logged. 18:53:45 And... when you get an error page it asks Google for some likely results. 18:53:48 All of these are disableable. 18:54:05 Phantom_Hoover: If he disagrees, tell him to point you to the line in the source code where it communicates with Google. 18:54:53 what is it? 18:54:59 j-invariant: ? 18:55:48 Phantom_Hoover: I am VERY UPSET that you are not asking me about my amazing RNG idea! 18:56:01 elliott, OK, go on. 18:56:05 me too, because i was too lazy to ask myself 18:56:19 Dispensers throw items a seemingly random distance. 18:56:25 Surround a dispenser with wooden pressure plates. 18:56:26 Set it off. 18:56:33 Use the resulting pressure plate patterns. 18:56:44 Issues: (1) Can't reset automatically, AFAIK. 18:56:47 (2) ? 18:56:54 non-uniform 18:56:57 Of course, you'd just use the result as a seed. 18:56:59 j-invariant: naturally 18:57:02 you'd have to account for that 18:57:15 by weighting the value of each plate or whatever 18:57:29 elliott, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzERWnFoW54&feature=related 18:57:49 Fucking kiershar. 18:58:03 I guess it's because of minute lag in the redstone system. 18:58:07 vs. the game clock or something. 18:58:10 I have no idea. 18:58:16 Basically, yes. 18:58:27 where dou find all this redstone stuff.. 18:58:31 Phantom_Hoover: But if redstone wasn't buggy like that, then my idea would still work! 18:58:34 j-invariant: kiershar knows all. 18:59:05 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:00:52 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1021&t=114491 19:01:00 Phantom_Hoover: This pack looks awesome. 19:02:19 there should be a university that has a program in game physics, that is, the whole program is just about reverse-engineering games in-game. would make much more sense than just physics, because instead of one uninteresting universe, you'd have all kinds of universes. 19:03:42 and minecraft cosmology, we did a bit of that here the other day 19:03:53 sociology of lemmings 19:04:03 biology of Dogz 19:04:08 Phantom_Hoover: Wow, Optimine is great. 19:04:10 (by editing the config files) 19:04:24 far/fancy without my fan going to 100% 19:04:59 j-invariant: those topics make sense within this universe, but i'm not sure biology of games would be very a coherent field 19:05:05 by physics, i meant all natural sciences 19:05:07 * Phantom_Hoover wishes BiomeTerrain worked. 19:05:45 well, maybe it might. 19:09:08 i'm not even kidding about that in-game experimentation thing, i never understood the point of finding out stuff about this particular universe, it doesn't get much less interesting than this 19:09:41 "hey you can move around, and if you work for hours you can make an object that's slightly better suited for bashing containers open" 19:09:42 The genetics in Creature is pretty complex, from what I've read 19:09:46 At least as far as games go 19:09:48 Phantom_Hoover: Oh boy. There's a bloom filter fort he GLSL shaders mod :P 19:09:51 Slereah: Don't make Sgeo start 19:09:56 ...than your hand 19:10:20 Slereah: and even better, you actually get to try them out 19:10:25 unlike on earth 19:10:48 Well, you can do it on earth, too 19:10:52 technically yes 19:10:53 It just takes longer than a day 19:10:57 you can also build a computer in minecraft 19:11:04 who the fuck would, after it's been tested once, tho 19:11:05 So I've read 19:11:11 Well 19:11:13 For instance 19:11:18 You could make a MUSIC BOX 19:11:32 I got so lost my saved game as become 20 megabytes 19:11:49 heh 19:12:04 I try not to wander too far if I don't have a tunnel near 19:12:21 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720 YESSSSS 19:12:30 j-invariant, only? 19:12:45 j-invariant, my local world1 is about 100 MB iirc 19:13:01 world2 and world3 are about 25-30 MB iirc 19:13:01 Mine is only 8 so far :c 19:13:01 Phantom_Hoover: Oh, it has hardcoded side-grass. Lame. 19:13:02 Vorpal: O_O 19:13:09 (each) 19:13:10 But then again, I do spend a time making my lair pretty 19:13:24 j-invariant, my local test server world: 110 MB 19:13:45 Vorpal: what the hell do you *do*? :P 19:14:04 j-invariant, build (mega-scale). Explore. Spelunk 19:14:08 cool 19:14:11 j-invariant, remember I play on peaceful. 19:14:31 You pansy :V 19:14:31 j-invariant, night is just a minor light level inconvenience to me thus 19:14:45 Slereah, well sure :P 19:15:11 You need to man up, and spend every night cowering in fear in your lair! 19:15:16 j-invariant: try mcregion to get smaller files 19:15:18 well 19:15:20 and also speed things up 19:15:25 j-invariant: optimine + mcregion = awesome fast 19:16:05 WTF a creeper just jumped off a cliff to get me 19:16:12 j-invariant, ouch 19:16:37 He is a suicide bomber, j-invariant 19:16:40 What does he care! 19:16:55 Slereah: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720 19:16:55 j-invariant, idea: creepers able to build 1x1 towers of dirt to reach you 19:16:56 erm 19:16:58 http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720 19:16:59 ermmfsdogmsgflk 19:17:02 Slereah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X32nuDEvw-4 19:17:11 all enemies should be able to mine and build just like you 19:17:12 ofc 19:17:17 heh 19:17:36 think how neato, you'd never be safe if they get your scent 19:17:58 optimine + mcregion + mipmapping + better light = fuck yeah 19:18:03 so if you walk on the surface during the day, they'll start digging near that area 19:18:11 oklopol, if you are inside a obsidian structure? 19:18:14 oklopol, with no door 19:18:17 then you are safe 19:18:18 Vorpal: well you basically have to be 19:18:20 do you need something special to mine those bricks tht look like coal but white? 19:18:25 j-invariant: what 19:18:27 WHY IS THIS #minecraft 19:18:27 j-invariant: ??? 19:18:29 coal but white? 19:18:30 screenshot 19:18:32 well you're safe unless they find diamond 19:18:43 oklopol, hah 19:18:51 they have the whole night to look for it 19:18:52 oklopol: Phantom_Hoover just scared me into thinking that accidentally today 19:18:55 oklopol: imo i think just zombies should mine 19:18:55 oklopol, you can mine away obsidian at lower than that 19:19:00 creepers explode, skeletons fire arrows, zombies mine 19:19:06 after all they look like us and we can mine, and have no special power now 19:19:07 's only logical 19:19:08 oklopol, just you won't get any obsidian blocks dropped 19:19:15 think about it, every night, a thousand creatures are born that have all the powers of a player, that try to kill you 19:19:19 They are zombies, though 19:19:24 You would need like 19:19:26 Evil dudes 19:19:28 Not dead people 19:19:51 Slereah: They can move and jump and punch, so they can mine. 19:19:54 (They punch you) 19:20:15 Back. 19:20:21 Slereah: except somehow i think they would necessarily be a bit less smart than the player 19:20:32 Phantom_Hoover: Should I enable Better Grass or not. 19:20:38 SO HARD TO DECIDE 19:20:38 Or, alternatively 19:20:43 I SOMEHOW just got a stack of 65 19:20:44 You can try it multiplayer 19:20:44 how 19:20:46 And wage war 19:21:00 i'm not even kidding about that in-game experimentation thing, i never understood the point of finding out stuff about this particular universe, it doesn't get much less interesting than this 19:21:03 Erm, what? 19:21:20 We don't even know how it works, and what we do know about that is very interesting. 19:21:45 For a start, a fair bit of new mathematics has come from physics. 19:21:49 the actual dynamics are not at all interesting 19:21:53 (In modern times.) 19:22:05 oklopol, define "interesting". 19:22:19 that's a bit subjective, but i'm sure you all agree 19:22:29 that's why people play minecraft instead of football 19:22:38 oklopol, erm, what is so boring about quantum physics? 19:23:01 quantum physics is not something you can actually do stuff with 19:23:10 Well, you can 19:23:13 Like 19:23:15 EVERYTHING 19:23:15 are you guys talking about reality? 19:23:19 or minecraft? 19:23:19 yeah, if you've built a computer in minecraft 19:23:21 Phantom_Hoover: HOLY FUCK CREEPER IN THE DAY 19:23:51 Day creepers are the worst man 19:23:54 Also, the essential reason that we study the way this universe works rather than artificial ones is because a) this one is the one we actually live in and b) we don't actually know how this one works, unlike any artificial ones we make. 19:23:54 Or 19:24:00 a day creeper just kille dme 19:24:04 Natural caves creeprs :c 19:24:17 When I die, I'm not getting my stuff bck 19:24:25 It was day on the FIRST DAY 19:24:27 Probably from a cave 19:24:27 Phantom_Hoover: we certainly do not know how the artificial ones work either 19:24:36 not on a macro level 19:24:37 oklopol, yes, we do. 19:24:40 Phantom_Hoover: GoL 19:24:41 tell me how it works 19:24:43 on a macro level 19:24:44 As a species, at least. 19:24:54 so hey 19:24:56 some mod i have 19:24:58 no one really knows anything about gol 19:24:59 has evidently fixed side grass 19:24:59 but 19:24:59 er 19:25:02 And working bottom-up is not what we are doing with reality. 19:25:03 http://i.imgur.com/YlDro.png 19:25:04 badly 19:25:07 :DDD 19:25:08 i wonder what did it 19:25:11 This is extremely obvious. 19:27:13 but what are interesting are the methods of going top-down, and how simple things turn into macro-things. both can be done separately with artificial models, except you don't have to own a university to be able to do that, and you're not restricted by whatever god chose to include! 19:27:22 "The most recent update was on January 15th, and is henceforth known as the Community Appeasement Grab Bag Edition MK II. This update adds nearly 100 new tiles and skins, for the 1.2 beta patch. " 19:27:25 nearly 100???? 19:28:12 elliott, innumerable variants. 19:28:27 Oak is the normal tree type, right? 19:28:31 I looked at the customiser, and it had added a Chinese theme. 19:28:40 Omg, finally, I can replace the fucking fugly birch tree bark. 19:29:39 ARGH MY SAVE DISAPPEARED ENTIRELY 19:29:39 ais523: pastebin.ca has been for over a week... Is there any chance you could upload your BF Joust interpreter elsewhere? 19:29:42 pikhq: :-( 19:29:45 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 19:29:47 Save of what? 19:29:50 pikhq: I don't get the problems you do. 19:29:51 Minecraft. 19:29:52 Phantom_Hoover: MC. 19:29:57 impomatic: use egojoust, it's fairer 19:29:58 I'm hitting every edge case! 19:30:08 pikhq, you have jumped on the bandwagon? 19:30:10 i can't get on the server 19:30:14 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I helped him pirate it. 19:30:16 oklopol: it's not updated yet. 19:30:20 oklopol, what? 19:30:24 ineiros, snap to it. 19:30:26 Phantom_Hoover: People who like dark wood textures have a brain disease: discuss. 19:30:26 oklopol, I saw you join 19:30:28 and then part 19:30:38 oklopol, downgrade minecraft and use a non-updating launcher 19:30:39 elliott, I use the dark wood textures! 19:30:40 It's my next purchase when I have expendable income. 19:30:42 oh right so i should've prevented update as well? shit 19:30:48 Phantom_Hoover: Umm, why do you hate humanity? 19:30:48 oklopol: naw 19:30:50 oklopol: I haven't 19:30:54 oklopol: just play locally for now 19:30:59 the update is well worth it. 19:31:03 but playing locally is totally gay! 19:31:04 okay 19:31:06 Phantom_Hoover: (Actually I'm going to try dark wood.) 19:31:07 elliott, what, exactly, is wrong with dark wood? 19:31:18 Phantom_Hoover: Do you use the brick-planks or the line-planks? 19:31:35 elliott: *Part* of the problem is that Minecraft and an IME do not interact at all. 19:31:37 On-the-line. 19:31:41 pikhq: So disable the IME :P 19:31:49 elliott: Yeah, I closed it. 19:31:50 Phantom_Hoover: I'll try it ... this once... 19:32:07 elliott, which sandstone texture should I use? 19:32:09 elliott: But, yeah. That's only going to come up for East Asian-language-speakers. 19:32:13 Phantom_Hoover: I haven't got there yet! 19:32:21 -!- Behold has joined. 19:32:27 Phantom_Hoover: Moar sign options! 19:32:28 (I group them only because their *technological* requirements are very similar) 19:32:31 Good thing too, I don't like the bordered-sign. 19:32:39 *bordered sign. 19:32:43 so umm, can i change textures by just changing some sort of pic files 19:32:45 Phantom_Hoover: DO YOU USE LIGHT OR DARK STONE 19:32:55 Dark, obviously. 19:32:57 oklopol: you want to make your own pack? 19:33:00 Phantom_Hoover: Why obviously. 19:33:02 yes 19:33:04 i do 19:33:11 elliott, because light is unspeakably hideous. 19:33:18 I need some iron 19:33:19 You are plunged into an ocean of beige. 19:33:21 oklopol: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Texture_Pack 19:33:27 oklopol: look at that list of modifiable files 19:33:31 oklopol: copy them all out of minecraft.jar 19:33:33 oklopol: make a zip file 19:33:35 oklopol: put them all in 19:33:37 name it something 19:33:40 copy it into a new folder 19:33:43 %APPDATA/.minecraft/texturepacks 19:33:47 and edit terrain.png inside the zip 19:33:51 also other files, but terrain.png is all the blocks 19:34:02 you _can_ change them direct in the jar but this is more maintainable 19:34:15 Phantom_Hoover, beige is nice 19:34:17 Phantom_Hoover: I... need a screenshot of your setup with both stone and wood, because it sounds horrifically dark. 19:34:19 elliott, remember that stupid basic texture pack for slow computers. 19:34:24 okay, that sounds like *seconds* of work 19:34:30 elliott, it's no darker than the default. 19:34:36 apparently you can use a stone pickaxe to get iron 19:34:37 Phantom_Hoover: I NEED SCREENSHOT (also, wood is). 19:34:49 j-invariant: Dude, I found iron on my third in-game day... 19:34:54 You are mining terribly :P 19:35:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:36:24 elliott, sec. 19:36:40 Minecraft: http://i.imgur.com/ZODJz.gif 19:37:26 oklopol: so is your texture pack done 19:37:37 http://imgur.com/7kp9M 19:37:51 Phantom_Hoover: THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THAT PICTURE: Stone 19:38:35 elliott, it's 30m up from the ground. Of course there's no stone. 19:38:44 Phantom_Hoover: But I asked for stone! 19:38:52 DISAPPOINTED PLEASE GIVE SCREENSHOT WITH STONE 19:38:55 Also, where IS that? 19:39:01 Oh, SSP. 19:39:16 elliott, http://imgur.com/B7BTZ 19:39:18 so can i have alpha color everywhere 19:39:22 Better than the ocean of beige. 19:39:31 Phantom_Hoover: looks like gravel 19:39:33 oklopol: not on every block i don't think 19:39:43 oklopol: with leaves you can have full alpha, dunno about half 19:39:47 oklopol: and ice is half-transparent or whatever 19:39:52 oklopol: btw changing water/lava does not work 19:39:58 you need to use this fancy mcpatcher thing to do that but whatever 19:40:10 oklopol: also the blocks at the bottom are the digging animation, you can use any greyscale there 19:40:18 *mining animation 19:40:35 Phantom_Hoover: So ocean of grey > ocean of beige? :P 19:40:40 Yes. 19:40:45 Beige is the wost colour. 19:40:48 *worst 19:40:56 Phantom_Hoover: I like beige. Wait, do you use dark cobblstone too? 19:40:59 *cobblestone 19:41:21 Unless you're a tetrachromat, and since that requires you to be female, there's not much chance of that. 19:41:22 elliott, yes. 19:41:36 Phantom_Hoover: I like beige. Wait, do you use dark cobblstone too? <-- I like beige as well 19:41:40 Phantom_Hoover: We are ... no longer friends. 19:41:42 Also, 19:41:43 -!- elliott has changed nick to alise. 19:41:45 TOTALLY FEMALE 19:41:47 -!- alise has changed nick to elliott. 19:41:53 elliott, _chromosomally_ female. 19:42:07 I got chromosome reassignment surgery. 19:42:17 :D 19:42:24 And became a tetrachromat in the process! 19:42:40 elliott, so clearly you regressed to a zygote and regrew? 19:42:53 Phantom_Hoover: I think that's a fetish, but no. 19:42:56 They changed them in-place. 19:43:03 elliott, your eyes? 19:43:09 My chromosomes. 19:43:13 Even then. 19:43:16 So my eyes changed obviously, because they had new chromosomes now. 19:43:18 That's not how biology works. 19:43:31 Oh really? Then why am I a tetrachromat? 19:44:00 Your body doesn't go "oh, look, the DNA changed. Must bring phenotype up to date, then." 19:44:44 Yes it does. 19:44:46 "I want Lapis Lazuli ground into a powder for dyes." Ooh... 19:45:21 Phantom_Hoover: What redstone wire do you use? 19:45:25 The ornate one looks cool. 19:45:38 I switched to it because I'm a sucker for ornateness. 19:45:53 Phantom_Hoover: Hopefully you can agree that the Painterly chests and doors are hideous, though. 19:46:01 YOU CANNOT DO THAT IN 16 PIXELS WITHOUT LOOKING HIDEOUS 19:46:11 The ornate ones? 19:46:22 Yes. Which is all of them. 19:46:33 the light wood ones are good 19:46:38 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined. 19:46:59 "Give me Chinese-style windows." UGLIEST 19:47:06 Phantom_Hoover: Which sandstone option is most realistic. 19:47:12 I think the chests and doors are nice on the default. 19:47:22 elliott, I went for bricks since I'm used to seeing it used for that. 19:47:31 Original cloth of woven cloth?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! 19:47:32 *or 19:47:46 Phantom_Hoover: Smooth-topped? 19:47:59 Brick topped. 19:48:03 I'm considering changing that. 19:48:16 Smooth-topped sandstone columns look nice... but I'll stick with the default for now. 19:48:23 BUT WHICH CLOTH 19:48:32 I think the woven cloth. 19:48:51 Stitched-edge. 19:49:06 Personally "I would like BARONS DEF CHARGER'S woven cloth texture", even despite the name. 19:49:16 fizzie: That's the one I've been usin' too. 19:49:17 "I want a metal creeper insignia ornate monster spawner cage." 19:49:18 YES PLEASE. 19:49:35 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:49:56 "Change my wood door into an unstained light wood door." ;; I would use this one if it were darker. 19:50:55 Phantom_Hoover: Chocolate cake, I hope. 19:51:01 "I want my sugar in a bag like civilized people." 19:51:01 What? No. 19:51:11 Phantom_Hoover: Are you even human? 19:51:15 Given that cocoa beans are a probable addition. 19:51:25 Phantom_Hoover: *The Minecraft cake is chocolate*. 19:51:28 Also, the cake in Portal is chocolate. 19:51:34 elliott, ...it is? 19:51:41 To which? 19:51:53 Both. 19:52:13 Phantom_Hoover: Well, Notch *said* it was chocolate, and the sponge is dark enough for it. 19:52:19 And yes, the cake in Portal is chocolate. 19:52:20 http://theknittingdefective.typepad.com/.a/6a0115714ad401970c011572419026970b-800wi 19:52:32 Better shot: http://honestcake.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/portal_and_there_will_be_cake.jpg 19:52:51 WHAT PAINTING OPTIONS DO YOU USE 19:52:59 That looks like a plastic cake. 19:53:00 Monet. 19:53:07 I use pastel bedrock. 19:53:15 Urgh, ugly. 19:53:23 -!- pingveno has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:53:26 "Give me an ink sac, straight from the squid." Disgusting; I'll take the splatter. 19:54:06 Fuck you, default choice, my chickens are CHICKENS. 19:54:39 People who use glowing-eyed creepers are abortions: discuss. 19:54:54 I use glowing-eyed creepers! 19:54:54 In fact, people who use anything other than "Give me a Creeper that looks more like the original!" are probably Nazis. 19:55:00 Phantom_Hoover: YOU ARE THE WORST PERSON. 19:55:20 Blue sea squid <3 19:55:30 HAPPY CHEST 19:55:32 *GHAST 19:55:53 Do NOT confuse chests and ghasts. 19:56:10 Phantom_Hoover: What game cursor do you use. 19:56:15 Pixel. 19:56:21 Phantom_Hoover: I hate you. 19:56:25 CROSS DAMMIT CROSS 19:56:36 JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS 19:56:41 -!- pingveno has joined. 19:57:11 LATEST UPDATE: 19:57:11 1.1.10_01 - Fixed custom water/lava for beta 1.1_02 19:57:17 Gee, I wonder if it'll work on 1.2_01. 19:57:19 LET'S FIND OUT 19:58:04 The custom water/lava options are disabled. 19:58:04 It doesn't. 19:58:05 I am sad. 19:58:12 I'll use default water for now ... 19:58:36 elliott, but anyway, that basic texture back thing has been taken down because noöne donated to it. 19:58:39 I hope whatever's causing that fucked-up side grass goes away. 19:58:41 Phantom_Hoover: :-D 19:58:53 Oh god, the brick background on the title screen is ugly. 20:00:17 Phantom_Hoover: The "radios" are jukeboxes, right? 20:00:23 People who use glowing-eyed creepers are abortions: discuss. I use glowing-eyed creepers! <-- i am starting to see a trend here... 20:00:32 Phantom_Hoover is the worst person. 20:01:01 elliott, I left them as jukeboxes because I am lazy. 20:01:16 Ornate dispenser so ugly oh my god 20:01:31 * Phantom_Hoover whistles 20:01:35 "I want an industrial simple dispenser." is nice. 20:02:03 Phantom_Hoover: You at least use "I want cobblestone with larger individual stones.", surely? 20:02:05 Not the DEFAULT? 20:02:16 Yes. 20:02:21 Erm, wait. 20:02:22 Phew. 20:02:24 Oh god. 20:02:33 Phantom_Hoover: And marble half blocks? 20:02:35 No, I use tiles. 20:02:40 And marble half-blocks. 20:02:47 At least you're human in one area. 20:02:59 fizzie: Tell me you agree that Phantom_Hoover's texture pack options are insane. 20:03:02 Phantom_Hoover is half-creeper 20:03:16 20:05 < AliG> I is here with my man and we ares chattin about something well important, math. 20:03:19 20:05 < AliG> What is math? 20:03:21 elliott 20:03:21 Phantom_Hoover: "I want to use the flat Painterly lapis lazuli block." yes? 20:03:25 j-invariant: xD 20:03:34 elliott, slab. 20:03:43 Phantom_Hoover: I think you should die. 20:03:48 I picked all the dyes in bowls, before you ask. 20:03:53 Quickly, in fact. 20:04:02 Phantom_Hoover: he said die, not dye 20:04:08 :D 20:04:31 * Phantom_Hoover swats oerjan ----### 20:04:49 GRR, that stupid grass problem hasn't fixed itself. I need to repatch everything. 20:05:11 Phantom_Hoover: Holy shit, what coal ore do you use, the default dark stone coal ore is amazingly bad. 20:05:16 It has... yellow edges... 20:05:43 coal with extra sulphur, clearly 20:05:55 mipmapping + painterly = love 20:06:05 Game looks fucking amazing. 20:06:34 elliott, I used the default coal ore because it was that or beige or strangely machined coal chunks. 20:07:28 Phantom_Hoover: Dude, it's grey, not beige. 20:07:46 Can I just say now that Painterly dirt tiles terribly. 20:09:09 is pastebin.ca down for good? 20:09:16 it hasn't worked on any of my recent attempts to access it 20:09:56 ais523: i doubt it 20:10:00 ais523: it was up only a few days ago 20:10:11 ais523: filebin has been down forever, though 20:10:58 hello 20:11:16 ais523: anyway, I implemented tsort for changesets 20:11:26 ais523: probably wildly inefficient 20:11:32 OK, I have installed Optimine, mipmapping, MCPATCHER, Better Light and Painterly. 20:11:41 Phantom_Hoover: You don't need mcpatcher. 20:11:43 And it's lowercase. 20:11:49 elliott, why not? 20:11:51 Phantom_Hoover: Just put it in texturepacks? 20:11:54 There's native texture pack support now. 20:11:59 mcpatcher is only required for custom water and lava. 20:12:02 Which don't work right now. 20:12:04 And also HD packs. 20:12:05 It still does basic water and lava. 20:12:06 Which Painterly is not. 20:12:10 (Animations that it.) 20:12:14 Phantom_Hoover: ...fail. 20:12:15 *is 20:12:22 elliott, it doesn't? 20:12:22 Phantom_Hoover: Those buttons just make it use the DEFAULT Minecraft water/lava. 20:12:33 SO BETRAYED 20:12:34 Until custom water/lava are reenabled, mcpatcher does nothing for non-HD packs. 20:12:50 Does your side-grass get coloured weirdly, too? 20:13:12 That's just Notch-quality engineering. 20:13:43 Don't use biome compliance unless you like ugliness. 20:14:20 Phantom_Hoover: I *didn't*. 20:14:30 Phantom_Hoover: And it also happened with the default pack. 20:14:46 Phantom_Hoover: The problem is that it's colouring the dirt parts too for some reason according to the biome. 20:14:47 Default is biome-compliant. 20:15:08 Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about. 20:15:42 Phantom_Hoover: http://i.imgur.com/YlDro.png 20:15:44 Phantom_Hoover: See? 20:15:54 That's just you. 20:16:01 Phantom_Hoover: No, that's some mod. 20:16:13 Well, get rid of it! 20:17:05 Phantom_Hoover: I INSTALLED THE SAME MODS AS YOU. 20:17:08 green dirt looks nice imo 20:17:27 elliott, I don't know, then! 20:17:31 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, you forgot mcregion. 20:17:34 Remove bin and try again! 20:18:23 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 20:19:36 Fuck yeah, 64+64+20. 20:19:37 *clay. 20:19:53 -!- Behold has joined. 20:21:03 Phantom_Hoover: Respawned - half the clay returned - but still in my inventory - fuck yea 20:21:29 Clay is really only good as an æsthetic thing... 20:21:31 Phantom_Hoover: Oh wow, it is comical how bad the game looks without mipmapping and Better Light. 20:22:22 Phantom_Hoover: I think that stint with side-grass-that-looks-like-pure-grass has convinced me that either Better Grass or Painterly's 1/1 grass option are awesome. 20:22:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:23:58 Phantom_Hoover: Do beaches usually have a ton of brown mushrooms on them? 20:24:04 No. 20:24:13 But sometimes you get a massive cluster. 20:25:00 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:25:11 Phantom_Hoover: Notch hasn't hired Scaevolus yet; discuss. 20:25:28 http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2wvt/is_this_a_secret_fallout_puzzle_it_looks_like_a/ 20:25:28 Scaevolus? 20:25:28 ok 20:25:30 i dont know 20:25:31 but 20:25:37 Phantom_Hoover: The author of Optimine and mcregion. 20:25:43 Phantom_Hoover: A part of Optimine was included in 1.2. 20:25:44 Ah. 20:25:47 maybe its not a message and is just a bunch of keys for lockers.. 20:25:57 or something like that 20:26:02 augur: PSHT WHAT SILLINESS 20:26:40 also, if it IS a code, surely you could figure it out pretty quickly, at least if it were binary, morse, baudot, ... 20:27:05 augur: >expecting intelligence from /r/gaming 20:27:09 true 20:27:21 http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2wvt/is_this_a_secret_fallout_puzzle_it_looks_like_a/ <-- nice myst reference in the comments :D 20:27:27 yes 20:27:43 good thing its the first comment so i was guaranteed to see it as i read the comments. 20:27:55 -!- Wamanuz5 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:28:36 Phantom_Hoover: Wait what, MC can still read my McRegion save. 20:28:53 ok its time to watch some lectures on the russian revolution 20:29:06 well, more of a discussion 20:29:39 oh. nevermind. this is boring and short 20:29:39 elliott, conversion hasn't happened yet? 20:29:48 Phantom_Hoover: I started a new mcregion game. 20:30:13 I'm still getting FPS drops. 20:31:01 Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, I'ma skip Better Grass, since Painterly has an equivalent as a texture option. 20:31:14 Phantom_Hoover: (OK, so with Better Grass I'd get 2/3 instead of 1/1 when there's dirt below, but I always thought that looked weird.) 20:31:27 Putting dirt below a grass block should not cause it to lose grass! 20:31:49 elliott: im making a tagging app 20:31:53 augur: for what 20:34:01 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:34:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:34:10 Phantom_Hoover: Dude, I just did it all from scratch. 20:34:11 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 20:34:25 Phantom_Hoover: Optimine -> McRegion -> Mipmapping -> Better Light, in that order. 20:34:33 Side grass dirt is still biome-tinted. 20:34:35 hi ais523 20:34:39 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 20:34:42 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:34:57 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined. 20:35:03 ais523: how would you recommend handling the fact that there are different types of change? one type for files (lists of lines), one type for directories (sets of directory entries), etc... 20:35:07 in scapegoat 20:35:36 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314. 20:36:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:36:45 Phantom_Hoover: *blink* mcpatcher JUST GOT UPDATED. 20:36:49 *This very second*. 20:36:54 It has custom water/lava now. 20:37:02 Phantom_Hoover: So tick custom water/lava, detick animated water/lava, and ENJOY 20:37:04 sorry, elliott, if you said anything after my response i didnt see it 20:37:05 :( 20:37:10 elliott: im making a tagging app 20:37:10 augur: for what 20:37:32 ok so you didnt get my answer 20:37:33 what tagged: files, urls, text; what os: mac; what purpose: nothing does precisely what i like 20:37:48 i hate tagging. 20:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:38:05 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 20:38:08 taggint 20:38:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:38:38 elliott: oh? 20:39:00 elliott: how do you organize your ideas and stuff you find interesting and so forth? 20:39:25 irc :P ... in practice i use a file system 20:39:29 in @ it's basically based on search 20:39:53 Phantom_Hoover: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU, it seems that mcpatcher's custom water/lava overrides mipmapping. 20:40:35 Phantom_Hoover: So I'll have to copy the custom files into minecraft.jar myself. 20:41:04 -!- p_q has joined. 20:41:41 -!- cheater- has joined. 20:42:38 OK, here's what I'll do: Optimine -> McRegion -> Mipmapping -> Better Light -> manual copy of custom water files. (If that does in fact work.) 20:42:43 Wait. 20:42:47 That won't solve the side grass issue. 20:43:04 Phantom_Hoover: OK, seriously, screenshot some damn side-grass for me, I do not believe that you do not see the issue with these mods. 20:43:13 elliott: well, i use a file system too, but my organizational habits arent well adapted to file systems 20:43:13 Phantom_Hoover: What order did you install them in? You realise some of them overwrite the others? 20:43:28 elliott, no it doesn't. 20:43:33 augur: Nobody's are. But nobody likes tagging either, and you'll slip doing it eventually. 20:43:36 Phantom_Hoover: No it doesn't what? 20:43:44 elliott: will not! :| 20:43:50 i used delicious right up to the end 20:43:54 that was like four years worth 20:44:00 delicious still exists, you know 20:44:15 yeah but its supposedly closing 20:44:29 -!- cheater00 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:44:40 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 20:44:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (*.net *.split). 20:44:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (*.net *.split). 20:45:08 unless they changed their plans 20:45:08 augur: no it isn' 20:45:08 t 20:45:09 yahoo are selling it 20:45:09 which has always been the case 20:45:10 ITT: believing everything you hear on reddit 20:45:10 and then not seeing follow-up posts 20:45:11 ah ok, well they were supposedly just closing 20:45:12 either way, i want tags for my files and for ideas too, not just links 20:45:12 based on one slide from a presentation that never actually said that. 20:45:13 files are useless. 20:45:14 Phantom_Hoover: Do not what. 20:45:15 elliott, mipmapping still works. 20:45:33 elliott: files are useful! 20:45:34 i have lots of them 20:45:34 so do you! 20:45:35 augur: They are not useful. 20:45:44 Phantom_Hoover: Please tell me what order you installed mods in. 20:45:44 why not 20:45:50 Phantom_Hoover: Also, be aware that I'm using the new mcpatcher which was updated at 8:25 pm. 20:45:54 Which is not the version you used. 20:46:35 augur: http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html is a very whiny and very incomplete page, but it's more than you'd get out of me right now while I'm busy bugging Phantom_Hoover. 20:46:36 elliott, I used the mcpatcher which just came out. 20:46:43 "very whiny" 20:46:46 Phantom_Hoover: Are you going to give me the order of mods...? 20:46:57 augur: Or so I hear. Apparently italics are whiny, I use a lot of them. 20:47:15 elliott, Optimine, mcregion, mipmapping, Better Light + Grass, mcpatcher. 20:47:17 i was just commenting more on you commenting your own shit as whiny 20:47:33 augur: I didn't think it was whiny until everyone informed me it was. :p 20:47:41 x3 20:47:50 Phantom_Hoover: You mean that with Better Grass, which turns all the side of grass blocks into grass, you don't see tinted dirt? HOLY SHIT YOU'RE KIDDING ME 20:47:52 HOW AMAZING 20:47:59 Maybe that's because there IS NO DIRT? 20:48:04 elliott, no, erm, no. 20:48:09 Phantom_Hoover: What. 20:49:13 Better Grass leaves some blocks with the default side grass texture. 20:49:15 These are fine. 20:49:25 elliott: MATRIX DIRT?! 20:49:35 Phantom_Hoover: Screenshot, please. Also, what checkboxes did you tick in mcpatcher? 20:49:49 Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I suspect Better Grass is still the culprit, in that it probably overwrites the offending code entirely. 20:49:56 augur: Less talking, more reading! 20:51:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:51:21 elliott: it sounds like you want an Alto. 20:51:39 augur: Yes, please. 20:51:43 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 20:51:43 :) 20:51:50 augur: (Even Multics, the big behemoth predating Unix, had a form of orthogonal persistence.) 20:51:50 also, i agree with everything you said. 20:51:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:52:06 augur: And so you should use @! 20:52:07 Has someone told you that TeXnicard is used by writing Underload-like programs? I will tell you now that it is only partially true. 20:52:10 whats @ 20:52:19 augur: My pipe-dream OS of amazingness. 20:52:45 augur: It got a remarkably solid design a while ago, which I then completely liquefied by thinking about it some more. 20:52:51 Phantom_Hoover: checkboxes! 20:52:57 elliott: Can you use pipes with it? 20:53:03 zzo38: No. 20:53:08 Strictly forbidden. 20:53:23 elliott: a friend of mine is creating an OS 20:53:25 or is mulling it over 20:53:33 elliott: Then why did you call it pipe-dream OS? And how can it be used without pipes? 20:53:37 -!- charlvn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:53:37 augur: It's probably shit. @ has features such as being awesome, which is the opposite of the feature of being shit. 20:53:48 ive been pushing for a completely radical rethinking of how it should work 20:53:49 zzo38: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define:pipe-dream 20:53:55 Custom water, IIRC. 20:54:04 augur: @ is what happens when you radically rethink radical rethinking. 20:54:07 basically where everything is data-oriented instead of application oriented 20:54:11 Phantom_Hoover: It is important which animated box you ticked. 20:54:16 augur: @ had that from version 0.1... 20:54:16 outside the box 20:54:23 elliott: good! 20:54:25 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 20:54:29 @ is INSIDE THE CARDBOARD COMPRISING THE BOX 20:54:30 elliott, lava. 20:54:32 And fire. 20:54:39 Phantom_Hoover: But not water? Hmm. 20:54:46 Phantom_Hoover: How are you sure that mipmapping still functions? 20:54:47 elliott: what language are you writing it in? 20:55:11 elliott, yes, because things in the distance look nice. 20:55:16 augur: @lang. (I'm not kidding. Both @ and @lang are, of course, placeholder names; @ has also gone by ElliottOS in the past in here.) 20:55:19 Phantom_Hoover: You could just be blind. 20:55:30 Phantom_Hoover: OK, I'll retry in a minute... 20:55:31 Phantom_Hoover: I still suspect Better Grass, though. 20:55:31 I like to have many commands acting like filters so that you can use pipes for everything. 20:55:40 elliott: whats @lang like 20:55:47 augur: You know Haskell? 20:55:51 a little! 20:56:08 augur: Imagine if Haskell decided to stop being practical and became completely and utterly hardcore, thus ensuring it could never reasonably interact with existing systems. 20:56:13 augur: That's @lang. 20:56:30 i thought haskell WASNT practical :( 20:56:38 augur: @ itself is actually written in two languages: x86-64 assembly, and @lang. 20:56:59 augur: The assembly includes an efficient, parallel lazy specialiser for @lang (WARNING WARNING OPEN RESEARCH TOPIC WARNING). 20:57:04 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:57:05 augur: This comprises the implementation of @lang. 20:57:14 k 20:57:18 augur: It also has task switching code and the security system. 20:57:27 augur: Everything above that, including just about all hardware drivers, are written in @lang. 20:57:45 Indeed, in @lang, you can write to any memory address you want, so long as you have permission to. 20:58:02 (Of course, you are unlikely to get such blanket permission; drivers will get permission to write to restricted regions of memory if they require it, but little else.) 20:58:49 Phantom_Hoover: How much convincing do you need to redo it all without Better Grass to see if that's the cure? 20:59:07 augur: You seem like you have lost interest! 20:59:13 i have. 20:59:20 elliott, you would actually have to pay me. 20:59:23 augur: What did I say. :p 20:59:35 augur: Was it "OPEN RESEARCH TOPIC"? 20:59:38 something other than nothing 20:59:47 augur: Gee, thanks? 20:59:49 no i kid i kid 20:59:58 you answered the question. 21:00:02 ;__; INSUFFICIENTLY 21:00:17 augur: But there are so many INTERESTING DESIGN DECISIONS. 21:01:14 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:01:26 augur: I'm giving you ammo to make your friend redesign their OS here! 21:02:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:02:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:02:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 21:02:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:02:33 not really 21:03:05 augur: Psht, your tagging program is the worst ever, then. :p 21:04:14 ok 21:04:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:05:05 -!- p_q has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:05:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:05:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 21:06:00 augur: I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU 21:06:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:06:15 ok? 21:06:20 psht! 21:06:30 -!- zzo38 has left (?). 21:06:56 elliott is #esoteric. 21:07:04 Yes, yes I am. 21:07:14 If he were not here, this channel would have no properties in common with the channel as it is. 21:07:26 Every predicate true of it now would be false, and vice versa. 21:07:53 tswett: So if I left, the channel would not exist? 21:08:12 careful, you might say something you Kant 21:08:21 -!- acetoline has joined. 21:08:54 It would not exist, and the set of people in it would be the complement of the set of people currently in it. 21:08:59 Let's try it out. 21:09:01 -!- elliott has left (?). 21:09:50 Of course, the tunes.org logs still log this channel as it would be if elliott were still here. 21:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 21:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:10:25 -!- elliott has joined. 21:10:27 They do? Drat. 21:10:34 Phantom_Hoover: you should probably join and then identify, not vice versa. 21:10:36 What do? 21:10:44 tswett, huh? 21:10:47 elliott: DUDE THAT WAS AWESOME 21:10:51 Phantom_Hoover: I have a theory. That theory is that mipmapping doesn't work, at all. 21:10:55 tswett: How do you know, you weren't here. 21:10:59 Everything false was true and vice versa! Except for some things. 21:11:07 elliott, yes, it does. 21:11:11 tswett: Oh wait ... it briefly obeyed the property "is a gigantic space monster that eats everyone". 21:11:12 Yes, but the set of people in this channel was equal to {tswett}. 21:11:15 Phantom_Hoover: It used to! But now it doesn't! 21:11:17 Phantom_Hoover: OK, new theory. 21:11:23 Of course it did. 21:11:23 Mipmapping has to come before McRegion. 21:11:36 tswett, also, I should point out that I have no control over what XChat does. 21:11:42 Yes you do. 21:11:45 Specify a server password instead. 21:12:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:12:52 * Phantom__Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric 21:12:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 21:14:01 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:14:09 -!- coppro has joined. 21:14:12 does mindmapping have something more to it than categorizing in treeform and being restricted to a small amount of data in nodes? 21:14:21 Phantom_Hoover: I swear. Mipmapping does nothing. 21:14:21 oklopol: no 21:14:21 or 21:14:25 um why would you want to join before identifying, wouldn't that temporarily reveal the cloak 21:14:30 are you talking about something other than the general concept :D 21:14:31 Phantom_Hoover: Oh, well NOW it does. 21:14:36 oerjan: that's what he currently does 21:14:37 oklopol: mipmapping 21:14:40 not mindmapping 21:14:43 wait what 21:14:48 :D 21:14:50 i read that as mindmapping every time 21:14:53 :D 21:14:53 it's a 3d graphics thing 21:15:04 was kinda wondering why you'd be suddenly talking about that 21:15:05 oklopol: you know when you look at far away stuff on minecraft... actually you don't since you use tiny 21:15:08 but if you've ever used far, 21:15:11 and if you move your mouse left to right 21:15:13 you can see it warp around 21:15:18 because of it scaling the texture down 21:15:18 but i wanted to ask the question so didn't feel like googling for what you might actually mean 21:15:25 mipmapping just uses less pixels in the texture the further away it is 21:15:28 meaning far-away stuff looks nice 21:15:36 less detailed, but nicer 21:15:38 when looking around 21:15:49 (this warping is especially noticeable on the Stairs near spawn on the server) 21:16:04 elliott: was tswett doing that opposite thing when he suggested it, then? 21:16:13 oerjan: Phantom_Hoover was suggesting the proper way 21:16:14 erm 21:16:17 oerjan: tswett was suggesting the proper way 21:16:18 to Phantom_Hoover 21:16:23 who was doin it rong 21:16:28 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:16:28 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:16:32 is mipmapping the name of this technique, or some tool? 21:16:34 Ilari = Vorpal 21:16:37 oklopol: name of the technique 21:16:46 because i think i've heard the term, maybe it was in that one book i read once 21:16:53 anyway that's kind of an obvious thing to do 21:16:55 oklopol: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=128995 21:17:02 It's not as simple as just activating mip-mapping. 21:17:02 Initially it looked really bad because some blocks looked broken. 21:17:02 Glass, for instance had black halos and was completely black in the distance. 21:17:02 I fixed this by adjusting the alpha testing, so it discards everything with alpha < 0.5 instead of alpha=0. 21:17:02 what remains is that glass almost disappears in the distance. 21:17:06 Then, water had a purple shade in the distance. 21:17:08 The fix for that is somewhat of a compromise: I clamp the mipmapping level so there's always at least one pixel per texture. 21:17:11 so technical :P 21:17:15 oklopol: oh it improves fps too 21:17:17 very slightly 21:17:39 oklopol: The name is also derived from latin, so the technique is doubly awesome. 21:17:55 are you sure :P 21:18:07 it's not really a technique, it's an obvious thing to do 21:18:17 It also eats a bit more texture memory, but, well, nowadays cards seem to have gigabytes of it. 21:18:19 oh indeed it is 21:18:25 where does it come from 21:18:34 fizzie: do you still use tronic 21:18:39 okIn 3D computer graphics texture filtering, MIP maps (also mipmaps) are pre-calculated, optimized collections of images that accompany a main texture, intended to increase rendering speed and reduce aliasing artifacts. They are widely used in 3D computer games, flight simulators and other 3D imaging systems. The technique is known as mipmapping. The letters "MIP" in the name are an acronym of the Latin phrase multum in parvo, meaning "much in a 21:18:39 small space". Mipmaps need more space in memory. They also form the basis of wavelet compression. 21:18:40 oklopol: In 3D computer graphics texture filtering, MIP maps (also mipmaps) are pre-calculated, optimized collections of images that accompany a main texture, intended to increase rendering speed and reduce aliasing artifacts. They are widely used in 3D computer games, flight simulators and other 3D imaging systems. The technique is known as mipmapping. The letters "MIP" in the name are an acronym of the Latin phrase multum in parvo, meaning "muc 21:18:41 h in a small space". Mipmaps need more space in memory. They also form the basis of wavelet compression. 21:18:47 worst name ever 21:18:50 MUCH IN A SMALL SPACE MAPS 21:18:55 i was thinking i'd pay a couple thousand for a computer in february, SO I NEVER HAVE TO BUY A NEW ONE AGAIN 21:19:01 i hope there isn't a flaw in my logic 21:19:08 About gigabytes, or about it using more? 21:19:14 elliott: Phantom_Hoover: you should probably join and then identify, not vice versa. 21:19:15 oklopol: i can get parts for you, i'm GOOD at that! 21:19:23 oklopol: i didn't do it for Phantom_Hoover because his budget was lame 21:19:27 i'm already paying a friend to do that 21:19:27 but a couple thousand euros i could do a lot with 21:19:30 DARN 21:19:30 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:19:35 but i'll do it for free, and am more awesome? 21:19:43 you're killing small businesses 21:19:44 that work for free 21:19:45 like me 21:19:46 he would do it for free 21:19:49 or is it working for free that's killing us 21:19:50 i'm not sure 21:19:55 oerjan: Oh. Weird. 21:20:35 elliott: I haven't tried MC post the 1.2 update at all; so I'm not sure how to answer. Theoretically speaking "yes, I'm still using Tronic"; but on the other hand the updater will wipe that, so maybe "no" is closer. 21:21:01 fizzie: Well, only very few packs are updated for the beta, but yeah that was what I meant (are you using it as of last time you played). 21:21:10 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined. 21:21:22 I was, yes. 21:21:36 "Information wants to be free!" -- obnoxious. slogan. 21:21:42 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 21:22:02 Phantom_Hoover: OK, hypothesis. Mipmapping only works the first time you load a world. 21:22:11 elliott: he _was_ talking about predicates reversing truth value at about the same time though 21:22:21 Phantom_Hoover: This theory holds up so far. 21:22:59 Phantom_Hoover: ADDITIONAL FACT: Side-grass only looks weird in some biomes. 21:22:59 -!- BMG has joined. 21:23:03 Travel to another, I bet you'll see the tinting. 21:23:06 A foresty one. 21:23:20 elliott, why is it that mipmapping makes ladders white? 21:23:27 What. 21:23:37 Anyway, canya travel to another biome for me? 21:23:56 Or even just compare grass block above dirt block. 21:23:59 The dirt will *not* be the same colour. 21:25:03 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host). 21:25:03 -!- BMG has joined. 21:25:08 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 21:26:21 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:27:09 http://imgur.com/gkWnC 21:27:13 elliott, IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH 21:27:36 I blame Better Grass and holy shit whatever that four-block thing is, it is hideous, is that cobble? 21:27:47 Get rid of that. 21:28:03 Phantom_Hoover: Your 1/1-side-grass is seemingly not mip mapped. 21:28:15 Eh? 21:28:37 Phantom_Hoover: Look at the side grass in the distance. 21:28:42 Compare with the top grass. 21:28:46 Ho ho. Better Grass does indeed fix things. 21:29:02 ...And? 21:29:08 Looks mipmapped to me. 21:29:16 Stuff in the distance is fine. 21:29:29 The side of grass blocks aren't. 21:29:35 Oh wait, they are. 21:29:38 Verified locally. 21:32:11 Phantom_Hoover: Views like this make me want biome-compliant grass working properly on the side. Badly. http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Nw 21:32:14 (WARNING: PRETTY) 21:33:19 Phantom_Hoover exploded from the pretty. 21:33:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:35:10 fizzie: You get to appreciate it, then: http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Nw 21:37:46 * fizzie explodes too. 21:38:57 fizzie: How much is it bothering you that I didn't pick up the pumpkins beforehand? 21:46:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:47:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest93753. 21:48:30 Hello, Guest93753. 21:48:43 fizzie: Can you please please please get ineiros to the requisite level of drunkenness to update to the stock beta server tonight? 21:48:56 -!- aloril_ has joined. 21:49:06 -!- Guest93753 has quit (Changing host). 21:49:06 -!- Guest93753 has joined. 21:49:41 -!- Guest93753 has changed nick to Phantom__Hoover. 21:49:45 phantom ho kekekekekeke 21:50:37 elliott: I was supposed to, on Friday, but he went and got some sort of a flu thing and was too feverish for that. 21:50:43 Phantom__Hoover: I just can't stop taking screenshots... http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Yg This is how Minecraft should come by default. 21:50:47 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:50:50 Phantom__Hoover: Fast, CPU-friendly, and absurdly pretty. 21:51:11 elliott, I still get the FPS drops even with mcregion. 21:51:15 Now we just need shader-powered colour light, like in that beautiful screenshot of the unreleased shader with red redstone torch light... 21:51:21 Phantom__Hoover: Well, it can't be perfect. 21:51:29 But I definitely couldn't play with all these fancy mods seamlessly before. 21:51:39 huh? 21:51:43 j-invariant: ? 21:51:44 something to make minecrafpt faster? 21:51:51 j-invariant: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=132717 21:51:54 j-invariant: and also install mcregion: 21:51:58 j-invariant: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=120160 21:52:07 i want these graphics :D 21:52:09 j-invariant: (updates will make your saves inaccessible but there's a conversion tool so you can use them) 21:52:18 j-invariant: those graphics are what me and Phantom__Hoover just got working basically :P 21:52:27 j-invariant: how good is your gpu/cpu? 21:52:33 j-invariant: do you play on Far/Fancy? 21:52:43 dunno 21:52:43 no 21:52:53 j-invariant: can you do Far/Fancy without your computer lagging? 21:52:57 failing that, Normal/Fancy? 21:53:08 Far/Dandy. 21:53:15 if you can't play Normal/Fancy smoothly, it's very unlikely you'll be able to get all these mods working smoothly, even with optimine and mcregion 21:53:25 although mipmapping helps a bit 21:54:22 j-invariant: basically: Install Optimine; install McRegion; install mipmapping; install Better Light and Better Grass; use mcpatcher on a customised Painterly Pack, check Custom Water, Animated Lava and Animated Fire, decheck the rest. If you have problems with any step in this just ask me for help. :p 21:54:45 I have to say, it's well worth it. 21:54:57 ty 21:55:05 Also playing fullscreened helps for prettiness. :p 21:55:20 j-invariant: the checkboxes in mcpatcher are very unintuitive btw but those are the options you want 21:57:43 elliott: Might update in the morning. 21:58:00 ineiros: It's very, very early morning! 21:58:11 ineiros: BTW, after this last hMod release, there'll be no more. 21:58:30 It's all going to the "super-fancy" vapourware pre-pre-pre-alpha Bukkit. 21:58:38 It's past midnight here, so it qualifies as a morning. 21:58:43 ineiros: See? 21:58:46 You should update RIGHT NOW 21:59:05 Phantom__Hoover: Problem solved. Starting a world in full-screen doesn't do mipmapping. Seriously. 21:59:07 Wtf. :p 21:59:55 elliott, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw 22:00:01 MC IRL with a toaster. 22:00:43 TED talks overstep my upsettingly-short attention span. 22:00:46 Sorry. 22:02:40 Phantom__Hoover: 50-60 fps standing still, 30-40 fps moving. Booyah. 22:03:01 TL;DR: it takes the best part of human civilisation as it presently stands to make a toaster. 22:03:30 Heh. 22:03:37 Phantom__Hoover: Wait. You don't use view bobbing, do you? 22:03:42 I do. 22:03:42 Phantom__Hoover, I watched that video. Awesome. 22:03:49 Phantom__Hoover: ... how do you live with yourself? 22:04:09 It looks so mechanical when you just glide over the ground. 22:06:40 -!- Behold has joined. 22:06:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:08:28 -!- charlvn has joined. 22:08:46 I love the way he uses moulds made of a log. 22:09:18 Phantom__Hoover: 16 PUMPKINS IN ONE FIELD 22:11:02 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:11:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:11:32 Phantom__Hoover: I'm trying out a new playstyle. 22:11:36 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 22:11:50 Hopefully now it will not disconnect due to server problem. 22:11:52 Phantom__Hoover: Mariner. 22:12:15 Phantom__Hoover: I spend my time in the ocean, searching out new lands; in the day, I land on them, take useful materials, and sail on. 22:12:40 elliott: Do you mean, you steal them? 22:12:45 What? 22:12:49 Steal what? 22:13:08 Steal the materials. 22:13:18 zzo38: Nobody has laid claim to them, so how can it be stealing? 22:13:41 elliott: Are you sure? 22:13:55 Don't be so sure. 22:14:07 zzo38: There are no houses, or indeed any signs of building, or any change to the landscape at all; no signs; nothing. 22:14:19 So if someone has laid claim to them, they haven't exactly made it explicit. 22:14:21 And what kind of materials are they? 22:14:33 Wood from trees. Coal. Iron. Stone. 22:15:07 Well, don't steal too much of them, otherwise it will become empty and the trees and stuff can be important. 22:15:20 zzo38: I replant the saplings from the trees so that more grow. 22:15:48 elliott: OK. But please do not cut *all* the trees at once, at least!! 22:15:54 I don't. 22:15:59 Good. 22:16:51 http://davepenguin.imgur.com/the_candle 22:19:12 Seen it. It is cool. 22:20:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3kRGx--e-w 22:20:08 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 22:20:30 Has anyone played A.I. Wars? 22:22:12 impomatic: I have not. I do not know what that is. 22:22:22 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1: Good lord. Spiders can swim. I only hope that my boat can outrun these abominable creatures. There is wonderful land to the side of me, but I cannot stop now; there will be others like it, I am sure. For now, I approach morning ... as fast as my boat will take me. 22:22:26 OH MAN THIS IS SO CHEESY I LOVE IT 22:22:29 Phantom__Hoover: ISN'T IT 22:22:58 elliott, Minecraft LPs: SO YESTERDAY 22:23:05 OOLITE LPs ARE WHERE IT'S AT 22:23:14 NOTE: THERE IS ONLY ONE OOLITE LP AND IT'S CRAP 22:23:19 zzo38: it's some kind of programming game with robotic insects and 3d graphics, I don't know much about it - http://programminggames.org/AIWars-The-Insect-Mind.ashx 22:23:54 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum: A perfectly square hole in the world, down to lands of lava and void. What hath God wrought upon this sea? Have I tread into curséd waters? 22:24:03 (Chunk loading error) 22:24:07 Ah, right. 22:24:09 SAIL ONTO IT 22:24:15 Phantom__Hoover: btw that toaster thing is exactly what i meant by this being an utterly uninteresting world, it takes a fuckload of work to make it interesting! 22:24:30 but i suppose that work has been done already, so maybe i should complain less 22:24:42 Phantom__Hoover: No. :p 22:25:19 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 2: There are beasts frozen in a permanent expression of horror, made out of unearthly materials, stalking me silently. I am losing my faith. 22:26:09 elliott, squid? 22:26:25 Creepers. 22:27:06 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 3: A forest alight. If the unholy creatures did not dwell nearby, I would inspect. Perhaps they did this. There is no land ahead of me that I can see. 22:27:17 *ablaze 22:27:26 Lava? 22:29:23 Phantom__Hoover: No. 22:30:22 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 4: Never so fast have I tried to eliminate dirt as when I saw I was careering towards it. I did not get out; I knew the skeletal archers must have been watching me intently. But now my boat is a pile of wood and I am alone in the night. I am not even sure I have the wood to repair it. 22:30:56 elliott, MC really needs better oceans. 22:31:09 The crappy little lakes it has now don't cut it. 22:32:26 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 5: I hastily built a workbench and my boat again; thank God I had the materials. And I even managed to remove my workbench, but as I removed the few remaining blocks of dirt to allow me to pass them with the possibility of return if, as I suspect, it was a dead end, a zombie appeared next to me, after slinking up unnoticed. My boat is in the water but I am not in it, and I fear that the zombie wil 22:32:26 l soon decimate my health. I am at a loss. 22:33:19 http://www.universetoday.com/20671/ion-shield-for-interplanetary-spaceships-now-a-reality/ 22:33:27 Effing science journalists. 22:33:36 Phantom__Hoover: EXCUSE ME I REQUIRE ADVICE? 22:33:37 Wait, no. 22:33:40 Effing Redditors. 22:33:45 Phantom__Hoover: "The USS Enterprise has many uses for its deflector shields, including repelling the Borg (Paramount Pictures)" 22:33:50 --caption 22:33:57 OK, effing science journalists. 22:34:12 Why not both? 22:34:24 Yes, both! 22:34:48 I can kill a few when I murder Sgeo's father and stepmother. 22:35:02 Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night, addendum 6: Braaaiiiins. Braiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins... everything is so much better now... braaaaiins... the sea restricts movement, it is no place I want to be ... all I desire ... is FLESH... 22:35:08 (I died.) 22:35:24 what 22:35:34 nooga: A zombie killed me while I played a mariner. 22:36:37 > 1 + 1 22:36:38 2 22:36:54 j-invariant: yes, you can rely on haskell's arithmetic procedures working 22:36:59 even if they're not proven :D 22:37:09 #esoteric: bunch of smart computer wizzards playing with blocks like small boys + some audience 22:37:29 nooga: you forgot the small boy playing with blocks like a small boy 22:37:37 oh yes, me 22:37:41 :-D 22:37:43 irrelevant 22:38:03 nooga: bought the damn game yet? I need slaves. 22:38:45 no, i'm busy finding this lapis 22:38:50 lol 22:40:41 elliott: just make some TNT and use it for digging 22:40:52 nooga: we already have shitloads of TNT 22:40:55 the problem is, it's not nearly enough 22:40:59 we've used up almost 9 stacks 22:41:03 or even more, actually 22:41:10 nooga: and it's still only a tiny, tiny corner 22:41:12 that isn't even all down to bedrock 22:41:18 also, we need help draining, too 22:41:57 by nine stacks, sure you mean 9 boxes? i have at least a big box full of 9 boxes of exploded tnt 22:42:04 *surely 22:42:24 oklopol: xD 22:42:26 yeah cuz you can stack boxes 22:42:28 as we all know 22:42:40 when you say stack boxes, surely you mean box boxes 22:42:47 actually it would be nice if you could put chests in chests... not chests in inventory obviously 22:42:52 but chests in chests, nested only one level 22:42:53 would be like 22:42:56 a one-chest storage solution for life 22:43:14 ofc stacking chests works 22:43:15 you should be able to make a backpack 22:43:16 with a scrollbar 22:43:18 elliott, you *can* put chests in chests. 22:43:22 Phantom__Hoover: _with items_ 22:43:24 that lets you store more stuff 22:43:27 so one 64-stack of chests is as good as 64 chests 22:43:27 the inventory is smallllllll 22:43:33 you should be able to make a backpack with a scrollbar 22:43:36 and one large chest of 64-stacks of chests could store EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE 22:43:58 oklopol: what i would really like to see is the held-item bar being redesigned. 22:44:09 oklopol: there you should just be four rows of inventory, and at the end of each row, scrolling past gives you the next one 22:44:11 surely you mean it could sore a big box full of universes? 22:44:11 and it wraps around 22:44:16 *store 22:44:18 so you don't have to fucking drag things down and up all the time 22:45:33 i'm trying to respond but i'm not sure what to surely-you-mean 22:45:49 oklopol: :D 22:46:11 oklopol: surely you mean you should be able to scroll through the contents of infinite universes in the bottom bar 22:46:29 by bottom bar, surely you mean a big box of bottom bars? 22:46:53 i have at least 3 big boxes of bottom bars in my base 22:46:54 maybe the inventory should just be displayed in a sidebar 22:47:04 in a square 22:47:08 and you enter two digits, row then col, to select an item 22:47:21 also it'd have the 2x2 crafting there 22:47:28 and uh 22:47:29 your picture 22:47:33 and the armour stuff 22:48:26 i'd like mc more if instead of objects, you'd have big boxes full of objects, like you know use the chest icon as the icon of every object and name object x "a bix bog of x's" 22:48:37 :D 22:48:55 oklopol: or you could just make stacks go up to 1728 22:48:57 which is equivalent 22:48:58 oh wait 22:49:00 that's for a small chest 22:49:11 oklopol: 3456 (omg that's ASCENDING) 22:49:14 3, 4, 5, 6 ?!£NRjhkflghvmkjg 22:49:15 pojmklgtr 22:49:15 LOL, small chest... surely you mean a bix box of small chests 22:49:27 bix box, is that like weetabix 22:49:36 erm 22:49:41 sorry 22:49:43 by bix box 22:49:52 i of course meant a big box of bix boxes. 22:50:16 Heh... "New" indications on IETF I-Ds are based on date. That resulted obsolete version of I-D having "new" indiction. 22:50:42 oklopol: ah, so infinite storage? 22:50:42 Ilari: surely you mean it's based on a big box of dates? 22:50:52 i should stop this before it stops being funny 22:50:54 well 22:51:02 oklopol: you're actually a big box of oklopols, right? 22:51:07 not really a danger of that anytime soon 22:51:12 but you know, in a couple of days 22:51:57 elliott: by a big box of oklopols, surely you mean a big box of big boxes of oklopols? i have like 5 big boxes of big boxes of oklopols in my base 22:52:06 oklopol: friendly word of advice 22:52:10 oklopol: DEAR GOD NEVER LET THEM ESCAPE 22:52:14 :D 22:52:21 true 22:52:31 i should certainly not let them escape 22:52:35 but can i ask you something? 22:52:37 yes 22:52:44 when you say friendly word of advice 22:52:54 surely you mean a big box of friendly words of advice? 22:52:55 i mean 22:52:57 :D 22:53:00 absolutely. 22:53:06 i have like 7 big boxes of friendly words of advice in my base. 22:53:08 whole BOOKS of advice. 22:53:14 whole big boxes of books of advice. 22:53:22 by whole books of advice, i should probably go to sleep 22:53:59 oklopol: what do you call it when you start a new world, walk around for most of the day, take in the sights, explore tons, build something small, die much much later, respawn, and find out that you built that thing at spawn? 22:54:05 i can't walk in straight lines :D 22:54:42 http://9gag.com/gag/29876/ THEY'VE FOUND OUR SECRET 22:55:03 :D 22:55:30 elliott: you call that the circle of life 22:55:32 Gregor: I don't remember anything about ear juice in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. 22:55:47 btw guys 22:55:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page 22:55:51 ugliest logo ever? 22:55:58 ugliest box ever? with the logo at both sides, flipped on one 22:55:59 elliott: That's because we'd kept it a secret even through then, but now the damned Chinese have found it! 22:56:01 Yes. 22:56:17 seriously, every time i go to wp i'm like "wait this isn't wp, what the fuck is that logo" 22:56:22 "... oh. it's wp." 22:56:26 Their special content is a big picture of Jimbo. 22:56:31 I KNOW 22:56:53 Phantom__Hoover: the filename is best though 22:56:56 File:Jimmy Wales Fundraiser Appeal edit.jpg 22:57:01 yep, let's feature that 22:57:10 Gregor, can I clarify a point here? 22:57:22 Phantom__Hoover: I doubt it :P 22:57:33 Is Jew's ear Juice juice squeezed from a Jew's ear or juice that Jews pour into their ears? 22:57:37 IT'S AMBIGUOUS 22:57:45 Both. 22:57:51 Oh good. Then they still don't REALLY know the secret. 22:57:53 *WHEW* 22:57:59 wales must really like his face 22:58:00 Ear juice back and forth, forever. 22:58:05 oklopol: it's so beautiful 22:58:33 You know what the most useful thing about the NVIDIA X Server Settings is? 22:58:33 well it is a loveable face, if that guy tried to sell me a vacuum cleaner, i'd buy the hell out of it 22:58:42 It lets you enable a cursor shadow! 22:58:43 Fuck yeah! 22:58:47 That's the one thing I missed from Windows. 22:59:19 wales must really like his face ← naw, it doesn't look like a sheep's at all. 22:59:39 Heck... I think IANA IPv4 depletion will be all over the net (and not just reedit). 22:59:41 LOL i get the reference :DDDDDDDDDDDDDd 23:00:02 At least every blog related to IPv6 or IPv4 depletion. 23:00:18 Ilari: what's ipv4? 23:00:24 is it some sort of sports thing 23:00:40 :D 23:01:07 fizzie: can you not download mc skins?? 23:01:10 i want to back mine up 23:01:11 ages ago, i decided i'd add something to all this ipv4 humble and jumble that's been going around on the channel 23:01:14 and now i did 23:01:14 or wait 23:01:17 what's the path to the png file? 23:01:17 and i feel a proud. 23:01:18 anyone know? 23:02:02 hi 23:02:04 sup? 23:02:25 no, this lattice is not complete 23:02:31 foundit 23:03:19 Of the two major IPv4 depletion estimates, the more pessimistic one is now in "any moment now" mode. The another gives less than a month left... 23:03:44 Ilari: how long until RIR depletion? 23:03:45 Woo, civilisation ends! 23:04:06 LET'S HAVE A PARTY 23:04:10 \o/ 23:04:10 | 23:04:10 >\ 23:05:06 i wonder how long it would take to make an ipv4 protocol from scratch 23:05:12 -!- MrPhone has joined. 23:05:44 maybe i should do a ted talk on that 23:06:17 This is variable; curious does have any (good) graphics libraries? 23:06:21 That's difficult to estimate. Especially due publicity from IANA depletion... I hope that one graph I saw was misleading due to incorrect data processing... 23:06:21 Someone tell me how I subscribe to RSS feeds with Chrome. 23:06:35 MrPhone, we have esoteric graphics libraries. 23:06:38 Well, not really. 23:06:46 Phantom - extension 23:07:00 We have that non-Euclidean raytracer which I have not been working on solidly for about 6 months. 23:07:22 I meant haskell 23:07:39 Oh, right. 23:07:41 MrPhone: Like, what? 23:07:44 MrPhone: There's an SDL binding. 23:07:44 Non-Euclidean? Elliptic and Hyperbolic geometries? Or just General Relativity? 23:07:46 I can't help you there. 23:07:56 Ilari, GR? Hahahahahahahahahano. 23:08:00 Does haskell have something like tk or gtk? 23:08:09 It's not raytraceable for a start. 23:08:14 MrPhone: GTK 23:08:14 MrPhone: gtk2hs is a binding to gtk. 23:08:26 MrPhone: There's also Qt, I think... and Cocoa 23:08:33 MrPhone: Protip 23:08:36 And I don't even understand what the objects half of GR's equations rely on are so... 23:08:39 MrPhone: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html 23:08:44 MrPhone: Look at the categories :) 23:08:57 MrPhone: But what you want is a GUI toolkit, not a graphics library. 23:09:18 MrPhone: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Gtk2Hs Gtk2Hs is your best bet. 23:09:27 MrPhone: It's widely-used, well-maintained, and I gather has a decent API. 23:09:31 Will look later -on phone now due to busted internet 23:09:59 Of course it's not "perfect" as its use is mostly imperative/object oriented since Gtk is, but hey, it's not like you'd write all of your program in IO anyway. 23:09:59 Ilari, FWIW, I was kind of hoping that I'd be able to get it to do hyperbolic and elliptical geometries and maybe if thins turned out really well some arbitrary manifolds. 23:10:07 And thanks for the reference 23:10:13 There are some experimental projects to do purely-functional GUIs, but they're not really mature enough to use in practice. 23:10:27 Phantom__Hoover: fizzie: I have a new skin and it's even more beautiful than my last one: http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=ehird 23:10:31 Oh yeah, GR includes SR and SR is dynamic. 23:10:44 Ty elliot 23:11:13 j-invariant: did you get those mods installed? 23:11:15 MrPhone: Two Ts! :-) 23:11:18 elliott: no 23:11:19 I fell at the first stumbling block of not actually understanding how geodesic rays are calculated. 23:11:27 j-invariant: aw, did you not bother or was there a problem 23:11:36 elliott: I' going to do it later 23:11:41 ok :) 23:11:45 the java doens't work :( 23:11:46 elliott: Very rainbowy. (And yes, the URLs the client prints out don't seem to work for any old web browser; I don't know if it's about request headers or something.) 23:11:48 user=ehird 23:11:54 It's just a grey box FURPDKPDR 23:11:55 fizzie: Worked for me, I just wgetted it. 23:11:56 Elliott - no tab completion 23:12:02 j-invariant: you have no java plugin :P 23:12:06 MrPhone: hehe ok 23:12:16 j-invariant: preview: http://minecraft.net/skin/ehird.png 23:12:17 oh there we go 23:12:18 just imagine that warped 23:12:19 ah 23:12:33 -!- MrPhone has quit (Quit: Phone). 23:12:34 that't cool 23:12:50 fizzie: Did you see how Notch is offering pirated versions of Minecraft due to his own incompetence? 23:14:05 You know, variable has been converted to the Functional Order rather well. 23:15:06 aw 23:16:46 I could be in a better mood right now 23:16:52 elliott, he wasn't in the Functional Order before? 23:16:57 Sgeo, did you elope with KT-AT? 23:16:59 Sgeo: Did KT AT not show up *again*? 23:17:03 She showed up 23:17:09 And... 23:17:11 Phantom__Hoover: No, I convinced him to learn Haskell. 23:17:17 But my happiness is pretty much entirely eclipsed by a belief she holds 23:17:23 Astrology? 23:17:25 Christianity? 23:17:25 That the Earth is flat? 23:17:26 Tooth fairy? 23:17:30 Homeopathy? 23:17:32 That P=NP? 23:17:35 That sugar is imaginary? 23:17:37 Phantom__Hoover: OMG 23:17:39 don't even joke about that 23:17:43 that's just sick 23:17:49 elliott, none of those are potentially lethal [I started typing this before you mentioned homeopathy] 23:17:54 That ZFC is inconsistent? 23:17:56 Sgeo: Breatharianism? 23:17:57 Say yes. 23:18:00 Please to god say yes. 23:18:14 A real-life breatharianist would be the awesome. 23:18:19 fizzie: They do exist, you know. 23:18:19 elliott: No, I didn't. 23:18:25 That Vitamin C can essentially cure cancer, and chemotherapy is essentially vitamin C. 23:18:29 Sgeo: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 23:18:34 You dodged a bullet, my friend. 23:18:43 Sgeo, get access to her perfume. 23:18:44 And this is the LAST person I'd expect to hold such a belief 23:18:47 Fill it with benzene. 23:18:57 * elliott notes to self: never let Phantom__Hoover near anyone I love. 23:19:03 Phantom__Hoover: hey don't dis that, Dick Lipton believes P=NP. maybe. 23:19:11 oerjan, I want P=NP! 23:19:11 oerjan: t'was a joke 23:19:20 fizzie: The client downloads minecraft.jar?auth=...&..., but you can actually just elide the ? and everything after and it lets you download it. 23:19:31 fizzie: Notch quality protection. 23:19:34 people actually beleive P=NP? not just to be contrary? 23:19:35 Shortly after I met her, I was _convinced_ that she wouldn't hold such a belief 23:19:36 I can't wait for the Mojang condom. 23:19:45 j-invariant: Dick Lipton :-P 23:20:13 Sgeo: There are plenty of females in the universe ... and most of them don't even believe that Vitamin C causes cancer. 23:20:22 elliott, you read what I said wrong 23:20:26 Or you mistyped 23:20:29 Sgeo: I'm saying that it isn't a big deal :P 23:20:31 Erm. 23:20:31 *cures 23:20:39 Sgeo: But I am kind of upset, because now I have to start preparing another silly name... 23:20:57 The thing is, you wouldn't expect a cancer survivor to hold such a belief 23:21:22 X-D 23:21:29 Doged. A. Bullet. 23:21:32 Literally. 23:21:36 She probably shoots people for fun. 23:21:41 Bullets cure cancer. 23:21:44 Sgeo, benzene. 23:21:52 Phantom__Hoover: the "maybe" is part of his belief, though. 23:22:13 A real-life breatharianist would be the awesome. <-- what do they believe? 23:22:16 Sgeo: So, so, wait, what cured her -- did she drink a lot of orange juice and it cleared itself up? 23:22:27 Or was it, uh, lots of medical expertise and chemotherapy? 23:22:42 She got chemo. She's not against regular medicine 23:22:48 Sgeo: *real medicine 23:22:52 Sgeo: hey maybe she's the reincarnation of Linus Pauling. that would be cool. sort of. 23:22:56 Sgeo: But seriously, SHE BELIEVES CHEMOTHERAPY IS BASICALLY VITAMIN C? 23:23:01 THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE 23:23:30 Did you point out to her that vitamin C doesn't make you bald? 23:23:36 YES IT DOES 23:23:39 Just nobody's taken enough yet. 23:23:45 Chemotherapy results in LOTS of Vitamin C. 23:23:46 LOTS of it. 23:23:51 Like a HUNDRED oranges. 23:23:57 lol 23:23:58 She believes that vitamin C is free of side-effects 23:24:03 And thus is better than chemo 23:24:06 Sgeo: So it doesn't cure cancer? 23:24:13 Vorpal: That you can survive without eating; the justifications vary, sometimes you get things from the air by breathing, other times from the sunlight. 23:24:13 Sgeo, DID SHE NOT NOTICE HER SMEGGING HAIR FALLING OUT 23:24:17 "Oh god, I was drinking this orange juice and the most horrible thing happened... my cancer got cured!" 23:24:31 Phantom__Hoover: No, you see, only radiation Vitamin C causes hair falling out. 23:24:34 I think she was cured of her cancer before she formed this belief 23:24:36 fizzie, haha 23:24:36 Regular Vitamin C is better, because it doesn't. 23:24:43 fizzie, real life ones would be rather short lived 23:24:52 Vorpal: One of 'em took the Randi test, and was found sneaking into McDonald's around 04am, IIRC. But he said he just went there to breath in the nutrients. 23:24:56 elliott, chemotherapy isn't even radioactive! 23:25:07 Or maybe it was just some generic test and Randi reported it in the blog. 23:25:19 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:25:20 (I think he has a standing rule of not testing that sort of silliness.) 23:25:25 Sgeo, BENZENE 23:25:38 Phantom__Hoover: It's pure Vitamin C-enriched uranium. 23:25:41 fizzie, Randi? 23:25:58 Vorpal: James Randi, a noted skeptic. 23:26:06 Vorpal doesn't know who Randi is? lol. 23:26:07 and illusion maker 23:26:09 (And a stage magician.) 23:26:10 Right. 23:26:17 it's not magic! it's an illusion 23:26:29 j-invariant, only kind of magic anyone's going to see. 23:26:31 fizzie: There was one where they first did it in a city, deteriorated; "yeah well the air isn't pure enough!"; did it in the beautiful countryside, condition deteriorated, testers said fuck it, and cancelled it. 23:26:33 Why not call it magic? 23:26:45 Randi always makes the distinction 23:26:56 -!- impomatic has left (?). 23:26:58 fizzie: But yeah, another famous breatharianist has been found ordering meals on planes and such. 23:27:02 j-invariant: "James Randi James Randi has an international reputation as a magician and escape artist --", directly from randi.org; I'm pretty sure he's called it magic too. 23:27:34 A magician is an illusionist; a magician does magic tricks; magic tricks are illusions; a magician does not do magic, but "magic" is a common abbreviation for magic tricks. 23:27:39 * Phantom__Hoover logreads 23:27:41 So really it's fine to say he does magic, because it's an abbreviation in context. 23:27:46 01:29:13 * Sgeo decides not to state his sexual wishes in the channel 23:27:59 But what are your sexual wishes Sgeo? We need to know! 23:28:17 Clearly he wants his partner to dress up as a macrophage. 23:28:36 yes, that's logical. 23:29:07 And then have some sort of weird blood-furry-vore. 23:29:19 DISGUSTING 23:29:39 Phantom__Hoover: impossible. blood is not kosher! 23:29:44 :-D 23:29:59 oerjan, ah, but which constituent of blood? 23:31:09 Also, HE isn't doing the eating. 23:31:34 Clearly this is why his stepmother didn't want him seeing non-Jewish girls. 23:31:49 it all makes sense now! 23:32:59 The pieces of the puzzle are fitting together! 23:33:07 Sgeo, YOUR SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES 23:33:22 microscopic pieces 23:33:48 oerjan, maybe even... ANTIBODY PIECES 23:33:57 does anyone have that archive of the frappr, just realised i lost mine 23:34:13 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:34:53 http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/images/gallery/necrocard.jpg lawlwtf 23:35:46 -!- variable has joined. 23:35:57 Gregor: old 23:36:13 Gregor: that was actually made by some i think performance artist who actually carries it 23:36:17 not that it holds any legal weight of course :) 23:40:58 i'd rather have sex after my death than be eaten by worms 23:41:04 or burned 23:41:07 or pretty much anything 23:41:35 I would rather not be buried when I am dead 23:41:59 -!- charlvn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:42:01 me neither, it is a waste of space 23:43:01 I also would rather not funeral for when I am dead 23:43:29 hi zzo38 23:43:30 why? 23:43:36 why no funeral 23:43:53 they're no fun at all 23:44:23 I would rather not die\ 23:45:32 yeah eral is latin for not at all 23:47:20 Dingus Maximus died. Well that's fun eral. 23:47:39 hey 23:47:46 i just got what elliott meant by that 23:47:51 it was a joke! 23:47:53 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 23:47:54 see 23:47:55 INDEED 23:47:57 fun-eral 23:48:00 very 23:48:00 oklodurp 23:48:03 fun-not-at-all 23:48:20 oklopol: /nick oklodurp 23:48:35 okloplo 23:48:41 I'M ACTUALLY BBER SMART 23:48:44 *VERY 23:48:48 I would rather not die\ ← UNTIL YOU BECOME SENESCENT AND ARE PHAGOCYTOSED BY A SEXY MACROPHAGE 23:48:56 +quote I'M ACTUALLY BBER SMART 23:48:56 Bieber Smart? That doesn't sound very smart at all ... 23:49:14 :D 23:49:22 you're just ignorant 23:49:37 but is he bber ignorant? 23:49:42 *justin gnorant 23:50:47 j-invariant: Could not deduce (Peano n) from the context (Peano (S n)) 23:50:48 it's "justin bieber"? 23:50:58 that doesn't sound right 23:51:08 there was some other justin 23:51:16 i guess there could be two famous justins 23:51:25 timberlake? :P 23:51:28 timberlake 23:51:29 yeah 23:51:40 elliott: hum 23:51:41 that's like some famous programmer or what 23:51:46 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:51:47 j-invariant: :D 23:51:54 j-invariant: i should probably do it as a type family 23:51:57 or something 23:52:12 bieber is a singer i think 23:52:20 and has a really high voice? 23:52:48 i read this in a youtube comment i think 23:53:54 YOU SAY JUSTIN BIEBER, I SAY METAL BAND #1; YOU SAY SPICE GIRLS, I SAY METAL BAND #2; etc. 23:54:06 i have to conclude people who listen to metal are retarded 23:54:51 how ironic 23:54:56 You say? Justin Bieber,I say PARAMORE!!! You say Lady Gaga,I say Evanescence You say Miley Cyrus,I say Slipknot You say? T-Pain,I say Three Days Grace You say Emenem,I say Linkin Park You say Jonas Brother,Isay Green Day 23:54:58 oklopol, the correct deduction is "people who comment on music videos on YouTube are retarded." 23:55:16 92% of teens have turned to pop and hip-hop.If? you are part of the? 8% that still listens to real music, copy and paste this message to 5 other videos.? DON'T LET THE SPIRIT OF ROCK AND ROLL DIE!!!!!!! 23:55:36 7 exclamation marks. 23:55:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 23:55:42 That's some grade-A stupid there. 23:55:55 I love it when people say things are ironic ironically. 23:55:56 are you sure it wins the actual content in stupidity? 23:55:58 How ironic! 23:56:04 i mean, they actually DO copy paste that around :D 23:56:34 oklopol, believe me, I know. 23:56:39 :P 23:58:00 -!- sshc has joined. 23:58:14 Why has Sgeo not taken on board my dating advice. 23:58:29 Phantom__Hoover, I'm not a murderer, and I still like her 23:58:42 Just... am fearful for her safety 23:58:47 Sgeo, just give her loads of orange juice! 23:59:11 I would not stab someone who believes that they are immortal, either 23:59:12 Phantom__Hoover: did you suggest he kill her or what? 23:59:40 oklopol, I suggested he put benzene in her perfume in order to demonstrate that vitamin C does not, in fact, cure cancer.