< 1293580887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks out digg < 1293580897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wtfs at how few comments there are on everything < 1293581141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What killed it? I've never had a straight answer to tha. < 1293581144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1293581160 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes you have, you just wanted infinite details. < 1293581211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was along the lines of "they changed the UI and had a few outages and everyone left". < 1293581388 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you had a box which prints out an infinite stream of bits < 1293581416 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits are not a computable function, they can be any sequence you can define.. is it possible to make an infinite energy generator with it? < 1293581446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, XD < 1293581448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to put electricity in to get the bits out) < 1293581451 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: coming back? < 1293581452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1293581459 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to covre the costs of the LED or whatever < 1293581473 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I doubt it < 1293581479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it's not that I'm bored or anything, just that it sucks down time. < 1293581483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how do you refine raw entropy :-P < 1293581486 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this thing has infinite amount of information in it < 1293581514 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yep, but that's not very useful < 1293581524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well anyway < 1293581530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do they /have/ to be uncomputable? < 1293581540 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you can specify the bits to be anything < 1293581546 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well < 1293581551 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not "instructions for building an infinite energy machine" but... < 1293581554 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could use the LED's light < 1293581556 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the bit is 1 < 1293581561 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to power some light-based electricity generator < 1293581563 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even its heat < 1293581567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very, very minimal heat < 1293581572 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except no < 1293581573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, except such a thing exists. < 1293581574 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you have to cover the costs of the LED < 1293581576 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to cover the LED generator < 1293581579 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ok then no < 1293581588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why he installed Braid from Steam < 1293581594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum much? < 1293581596 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I define the sequence to be 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, ... < 1293581604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: zomg! the AIR is that machine! < 1293581610 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs the air gives us infinite energy :} < 1293581630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, read The Minecraft Experiment lately? < 1293581634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He reached the Nether. < 1293581635 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a few days ago < 1293581639 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :air?? < 1293581701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yep, just don't plug the led into anything < 1293581703 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite 0 bits < 1293581730 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't disprove that this might be possible < 1293581755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see mc < 1293581758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, so how are you getting energy here? < 1293581806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose the machine was a halting oracel for the nth brainfuck program < 1293581831 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be able to prove some difficult mathematical theorems just by waiting a long enough time < 1293581880 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if this was the 1800s I could have one that prints out instructions for a flying machine < 1293581897 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bad example actually < 1293581917 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we only know post facto that the sequence exists < 1293581921 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly, machines can't fly < 1293582040 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S TRUE < 1293582047 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but um, i don't think you can use it to generate infinite energy < 1293582054 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well < 1293582057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: how does it generate the bits? < 1293582060 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: does it come with the LED built in? < 1293582060 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel like if an alien asked me what what infinite sequecne of bits I would like.. I wouldn't be prepared < 1293582067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: as in < 1293582080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: is it an impenetrable black box that lights up occasionally iff you give >= N watts of energy? < 1293582081 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't open the device up < 1293582084 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into a little hole in the back < 1293582086 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1293582087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. the LED is built in, yes? < 1293582087 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1293582108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'd say ... definitely no, because we can't access the information in any physical form < 1293582116 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: only the LED, which we're covering < 1293582131 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i.e. the actual /physical/ results of generating the information are not accessible < 1293582131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1293582135 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what is relevant here < 1293582144 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? what's the diffence, same 1s and 0s < 1293582156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the actual principle for the infinite energy? < 1293582168 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well because the point is that heat etc. < 1293582172 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno :D < 1293582218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumblegrumblemyideawasbetter < 1293582284 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1293582292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For energy! < 1293582296 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: can I cheat? < 1293582308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a man. Shovelling coal. Into a black hole. < 1293582311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT < 1293582321 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cheat if it's clever < 1293582327 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I request the sequence of bits that represent ASCII instructions in easily-comprehended-by-a-modern-physicist English that describes all steps necessary to build an infinite energy generator given our current materials and understanding < 1293582339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: presumably, the black box itself uses some kind of infinite energy source to do it < 1293582348 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it was constructed specially by aliens, they can tell us how to make us one that gives electricity! < 1293582355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or heat or whatever < 1293582358 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that only works if such a machine exists -- current evidence suggests it doesn't < 1293582379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: current evidence suggests this infinitely-outputting box doesn't exist either! < 1293582399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: & if they can't give such a sequence, they're frauds, as their magic box must use an infinite energy generator < 1293582407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or physics is really, *really* weird) < 1293582477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is totally cheating though :) < 1293582625 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1293582631 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the best approach so far < 1293582943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the last time I got angry with Opera was because it failed to save my settings properly < 1293582958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i remember that as a last straw. What else was wrong with it? < 1293582968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have a private blog so I rememer things like this < 1293582982 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no minecart tunnel yet. < 1293582985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it's all done < 1293582989 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or just use a text file. < 1293583032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.31:16:42:28 It occurs to me that I have a record of my Opera usage < 1293583032 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.31:16:42:42 So if I'm ever tempted to try Opera again, say in a few years... < 1293583079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1293583094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, idea to confuse people: add "no pun intended" where there is no pun. It is correct but confusing < 1293583104 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF. < 1293583106 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawn reverted too. < 1293583113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what < 1293583118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's weird < 1293583125 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to pre-second-explosion < 1293583130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, are you behind this? < 1293583135 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros said he'd help now where is he >:| < 1293583146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, I hope my home doesn't revert again < 1293583158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I dumped more pumpkins and fixed the lava there < 1293583175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.29:19:06:37 What an awesome security feature, Opera < 1293583175 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.29:19:06:42 * Sgeo gives Opera the middle finger < 1293583177 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:22:05:18 Opera complains about an illegal port number < 1293583180 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:22:03:32 * Sgeo angers at Opera < 1293583188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.25:12:51:34 elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/websplat-does-not-work-on-opera.png < 1293583193 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.24:14:24:52 Opera seems to be having some problems again < 1293583195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.23:18:55:30 Dear Opera, quit feasdf < 1293583198 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:18:00:05 Why does Opera force me to click the flash before interacting? < 1293583202 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:11:33:12 Dear websites/Opera: Stop making it so that Opera keeps thinking that something changed in your tab < 1293583202 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.10.22:15:44:34 Opera fails to mark files as originating from the Internet < 1293583211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.22:18:00:05 Why does Opera force me to click the flash before interacting? <-- good idea < 1293583218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.22:15:44:34 Opera fails to mark files as originating from the Internet <--- ??? < 1293583226 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: good idea that IE invented :) < 1293583243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10.10.25:12:51:34 elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/websplat-does-not-work-on-opera.png <-- this... is this hard mode? < 1293583245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1293583248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible mode? < 1293583270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 544 images? < 1293583275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Opera 11 fixed all that < 1293583302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why not use another browser, such as firefox. Firefox may be bad, but it works < 1293583341 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because Sgeo hates chrome now for no clear reason < 1293583350 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE NEVER SHUTS UP ABOUT ANYTHING NO MATTER HOW LITTLE ANYONE CARES < 1293583370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was creating its enemy images, then counting them, then creating more and recounting them, then creating more etc etc. < 1293583404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Played websplat lately? :P < 1293583414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, awesome < 1293583423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, issues with it? < 1293583424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I was just thinking about it; implementing zalgo went all fail :P < 1293583430 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1293583431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, zalgo? < 1293583444 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what zalgo is < 1293583446 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the sentence does not parse < 1293583466 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos. < 1293583492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if zalgo is a generic noun then it makes sense < 1293583516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so how did you try to implement that? < 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ṫ͈̭̖ͅo̤̊̿͋̂́ͅ ̨̳̭͚̹̘̬̮̙ͥ̅̈́̿̍͌̌i̛̐̽̿ͪ҉̢̭͔̼̘̮ͅṅ̢͖̭̤͕̮̹̪ͧ̐̿ͦ͞v̷̬̙̻̳̤͔͙̓ͨͣ́̎o̦͔͐̇̂͋͊͂ͨͫ̚k̫̈͞ͅeͯͮ̌̂̓͑ͬ҉̳͍̖̠̰̖̭͎ ̮̝̪̲̦͈͎̗̿͐̄̌ͨͤ̉ͬͩ́t͈͐ͭ̑h̙͎̙̲͉̬͎͖̟́͗̓̓e̖̘͖̳̫̟̔ͬ̿ͬ͠ ̸̻̳͖̋͗̄̿̂̚ḩ̜̀̾̓͜i̼̘͗́̽ͭͩv̜̆̂̾̋́͋ͥ̾é̷̺͎ͬ̀̑ͭ̿̈̂͢͝-͚͍̙͉ͫ̆͛̆ͮ͗͘͝͡m̯̠̩̠͍̭͓̝ͭͫ̔̆iͧ̏ < 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̸̴̞͔̝͍̭̂̑ͦ̑ͫ͜n̷͖̥̺ͮ̋̎̈́d̷͓̟̩̄ͨ ̽̔̕͜͏̰̤̼̠̤͖̠r̴̹̔̂͐͌ͦͣȅ̷̛̳̞̩̘ͫͤ͐̋ͨ͛p͎͚̃̒̄͌̈̕r̶̻̮͉͓̩̳̲̖ͤ̀ͨͧͪ̒̈́̈͡e͌̓̅ͥ͏̼̘̩͈͟s̸͎̮̭̘̥̫̒͂̉͗̎̕e̵̵̛̘̺͑ͬn̯̠̖͋͂̎̽͘ẗ̰͖͔̠͚̲̫́ͫ͐ͩ̔̈̂ͤͩ͟ͅi̗͇̦͈̙̮͆ͥń̨̛̰̘̘̮͓̙̫ͭ̍ͫ͛̀g̸̪̗̩͕̙̜̩͊ͮ͌̇͠ ͧ͂ͫ̆̔ͧ̽͏̮̭̫̣͚͇c̴̛̝̪͙̼̦̪͛͋ͬh̵̦͍̼̞͚͖͚ͧ̑̀ȃ̓͌̔ < 1293583531 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̵͍̥̣̩͉͉̤̫̔̓̀͠o̙̼̅́ͫͩͩ̇́s̪̟͚̲̋͋̿̄͆̉̏ͬ̓́ͅ.̲͙͈̖̏̂ͦ́ < 1293583533 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̴͎̝̩̮̤̲͈ͣ͛ͅĮ͉̖̱̭ͫ̎̈̒̒̿ͪ́n̞̰͔̱͖̯̜ͩ̇ͯͯ̈̚͘͠v̜̭̏ͩ̍̔͛ͣ͂͂͢͢ǒ̷ͭ̄̀̊ͧ̒̽҉̠̻̤̹k̡̰͓̰̱͂ͭ͋̔́ͅi̯̤̒͊͌ͥͦͬ͐n̤̤͐̿̏̌̇̆̈́͆́g̨̙̱̗̤̙̾̏̍̈ͧ͡ ̵̵̟̲̙̭͙ͩ̄̽̇t̺̫̔ͭ͟͞h̡̭̗̻̠̫̥̩͍ͮͧ̓̈̎̊̊ͮ̀͜e̴̝͙͉̘̙̍́̂̐ͥ̃ ̨͉͇̭̯̝̖̰̰͂̑ͫ͊͗͘ͅf͓̓͗̓ͧ̐ẹ̠͔̔ͬ͒ͧ͋ͤ̉͋e̹̫̥͊ͦͫ̍̌͝l̢͙̺̙̺̩ͥͭ̇̐ͫͧͧ͂͢ȋ̈͋̉͛ < 1293583538 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̧̟͉̩̘̼̙́̄ͧ̚͢ǹ̢͓̞̮̗͖̝̮͍ͭ͜g̙̻͖̠̎̚͜͟ ̢͎̪̲̬ͯ̊ͬͪ͒ͨ̑͜͡ͅo̗̙͋̊̂͌̄̋͌͝f̠͎͕̯͗̒ͯͯͪ͊̊ ̨̼̩̪̯̜̲̖͖͑ͤc̸̻̪̖̱ͭ͐ͨͫ̋h̴͈̹̦̼͙͇̼͖̣̄͗͡͡a̤̱̬͉̼͇̲̜ͮ́̏͋͊ơ͙̝̮̜̈́̐ͪ̿͗̔ͮs̖͎̟͊ͧ̇̈ͅ.̘ͬͧ̐ͣ́͠ < 1293583542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̞̬̳̖̘͎ͮ̈̍ͫͬ̏̚Ẃ̛̻̗̒̓̉̉ͣȉ̺̬͎͖̭͔̝͆ͤͤ͑͝t̨͈̯̬̠̍̍̊̐h̛̯̬̬͗̃͗ͭ͐ ̨͇̹̬͓̗ͪ͑͛͗ͩ͑̒̚͠ǫ̶̶̫̱̼̮̦̪̟̔͐̇u̱͓̹̞̦̾t̸̮̘̭͌͗̐͛͛ͨ͂́͂ͅ ̊ͭ҉̸͕̟͖͉̙̣̩̲̹ǫ̸̬͕͖̰̍̑ͦ̾͐̐ͫ͒͘r̴͎ͬ̒ͧ̇ͪ͊̂̅͜d̯̙̙͍̦̼̣̭ͨ͊̀͟e̶͔̟̦͍͌ͤͧ̿̐̋̀ͮ͞ṛ̳͓̈ͦ͊ͨ̽ͩ̕.̨̲͖̳͔͉͇̯́̉ͨ̋͡ < 1293583547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̃̍͏͏͓̙̖̱T̢̩̘̭̞̟͍̣̦̦́͊ͬh̨͓͈̻̗͙̱̘͛ͮͮ̑̍ͣẹ͙̰͉̲̘̹ͦͫ͂ͥ͞ ̶̨̬͉ͮ̑͐̃̀̂̈́̕N̫̲ͦ̒ͧ̊ͤ̈̉̕͜ͅe̷̲̊̾̐͐̅̕z̜͔̮̯̬̺̣̉̓͌̒͑͝pͨ̽͏͇̥̥̱͟e̸̖̤͊͗ͮ͝r̦̣͇̦̱̹ͨ͋͜d̞̺̘̪͕̯͎̹ͨ̓̄ͫͯͥ͊̂͡ͅi̢̖̍̊ͤͮ͑̈a̶̹ͫ̈̿́n̪̺̯̣̝ͮͬ̋ͨ ̡̰̍̉ͤ̊ͩ͡ẖ̴͚̼̯̖̈́ͤ̔͋ͬ̐̈͑́͠i͙͔̤̮̳̗̤̥ͯ̐̒̾̍ͯ̓̍̚v̛͉͎̫͆ę̤̳̮͈̟̪̰̰̿̆ͬ-̈́̈ < 1293583552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̝̠̞͢m̶̷̯͎͑̚i̴̅͏̡̜̙̘̘n͗̌͗̅̅͛ͯ͋̃҉̸̡͉̜̼d̹͈̗̀ͦ̿ͣ͆̒ͣͨ͜͝ ̡̡̪̙̹̲͚͔̗͈̈̓́ŏ̶̥̣̬̘̯̟̼̺͉̅͗f̡̟͎̪̹ͬ̐͒͠ ̛̦͈̹̫͚͖̜ͯ̇͂͜c̴̥̬͚̣̹ͩ͌̔̅̚̕h̎̆͑͑̈͡͏͉̺̠̻̳͓̱͎a͂̄̊͋͐̍͊͗̕͡҉͍̪̣̹͚͚͇o̷̶͖͙͇̣͇̥͖̎͌͑͛͋̽ͦͤś̟̪ͦ͝.̯͎͈̞͗̄͆͗̾̏̈͑ͅ ̢̜̟̣ͯͯ̃͂̌ͩ͋Z̬̘͎͛̍ͣ͛ͣa̟͈̙͕͗ͦͨͪ͑̆l̛̘̤̤̼͍̏̑̉̀ğ́ͬ̅̆ͧ < 1293583557 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̪̫̖̌̊̀o̷̻̤̰̼͉̞͖͖ͩ̂͊ͩ̽̓ͭ̚̚.̧̹̪̉́͆̽͌̈́̒̂ ̷̵̭̲̳̲̝̱̞ͩͫ͗͊ͪ͂ < 1293583559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̢̭̤̓̐ͯH̵̲̮̬̹̣͓̮ͩ̉ͦ͌̍ͦ̑̌̀̚̕e̼̼͓̞͌̿ͣ̀ͩ ̧͔̭̭̙̩̥͑̍̔̃͗ͮ̉ͪ͟w̶̓ͮ҉̳͕͇̲͔͓h̥̱͖̘͔͕̔̄̊̉̆͊ͤo͊͗҉̫̹̲̰͉̀ ̶̼̼͕̙̙̫̝͚̩͐͒̓ͤ́͒̂́Ŵ̤̄̎ͫ̐̆̑͞a̳̣̞̣̟͚̯͙̪ͣ͐͠i̡̿̈̽̍͗̐́ͭ͏̞́ť̡̗͕̼̰͙ͣ̽̈́ͧ́̑ś̩͖͔͉̘̥̋͂̏̑͐ͯ̆͜ ̵͂̋ͮͣ̊͡͏̘͇͔͕̞B̢͚̼̞̔̉̒̓ͧͯ͌ͯ͘̕e̊̓̓ͬ͂ͦ͒̈҉̶͉̣̠̳̦̖̘ḣ͉̭̖ͣ̈ͪͅi͗̋ͩ̚͏͞ < 1293583562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. It *didn't* mess up my terminal < 1293583564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :͔́ņ̹̱͍ͥ̇d̜̻̹̹̿̈́̉̽͂ͩ̃ ̵͓͍͎͓̳̝ͬ̅͂̄́T̴̢͉͔̝̫͎̺̪̺ͧ̈́̋̄̎ͪͅḩ͖̝͕̰̳ͭ̾͐͞ͅe̯͙ͨ̋ͥ̎̆ͩ ̸̡̘̦̂̆̀̔̇́̕Ẁ̮͉͈̿ͤá̸̡̘͚̏͛ͥ̓͐̾̌ͪ͝ͅl̛͇̼̼ͯ̈͡ͅḻ̤̰̈ͫ̋ͩ.̲̙͔̫͓ͩ͋̎ͦ̈́ͥ̆̆̚͞ < 1293583565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it won't < 1293583568 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̢̠͔̳̆̽͛̾͘Z̦̺̺͊ͥ̒̒̏ͫ͜ < 1293583570 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wow, XChat failed at that < 1293583572 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T̷̞̭̺̩͚̹̙̜͓̞ͭͧ̉ͩ̀ͤͥ̂͂ͨͫ̈ͨ̎̀͆ͨ̊̕o̶͉͔̮̺͙̳͈̰̙̞̝̖̜͕̗͇̣̭ͬ̐̀̈̽̽ͯ̆̔̇̉̕͡͝͝ ̵͎̜̩̹̻̲̜̪̉ͧ̔̓͂̀̈́ͣͤ͗̉͞i̴̢͇̻͍̘̦̜̦̩̜͓͎̗̠͊̉̈́̌͜ṋ͇͕͔̰̱̘̝̼͔͎̼͖͓͋ͬͪ̊́̀v̴̨͈̟͓̬̯̙͍̩̟̙̞̰͛̈́́̓͛͜͢ȍ͗͒͐ͥ̆͏̡͚͖̳̪̼͎͕k̡̛̖̥̭̬͚͙̟̫̰͔̦͖̲͕͖̟̥͈̘ͣ̈̄ͯ̌̌̓̏̈͆̇ͬͯ͊ͣ̋́̕eͭ̈́̀ͥ͂̏̽̈́̏̓̍̋ͤͮ̽̈́͌͐҉̷̛̣̭ < 1293583577 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̮̳̖ ̶̧̼͕̲̤̰͙̠̮͍̦̖̟̺̬̙̳͍̜̣̂̓͒̊ͮ̈́̉̃͑̽͡t̷̿ͧͦͨ҉̖̹̣͈̖̲̗͍͈̤ͅh̢ͮͭ͆ͯ̅̚҉̥̮̮̮͓̥̮͍e̷̡͍̼̲̞̣̘͓̻̠̻͖̩̤̹͔͒̊ͯ͘͟ͅ ̨̝̼͓̼̥̜̘͈̖̏̒́ͨ̑ͫ̌ͫ̿̐ͫ͊́́̒̉́͋̀͞ḩ̵̴̩̞̗͉̤̔̊̾iͭ͌͗ͮͥͤ̾ͭͪ͑ͮͣͨ̑̌̊ͫ͠҉̴҉͏̙̫̹̘͕v̦̠̰̝̱̱̄ͭ̀ͨ͋ͦ̃̂ͬ̊̈̂ͧͩ͐͌̚̕e̸̢̟̫̰͕̲̫ͩ͒ͬͨͫ̾͋̑̐͆̒ͬͮ̚̕-̗͉̱̳̣̥̣̏ͧͣ̿̕m̓̅̄̚ < 1293583582 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̿͐̔ͭͨ̿̓̉ͬ̚͏̷̸̣̭͉̦i̧̩͚̜̜͔̖̞̥̭̇ͪͣ̆ͬͫ̆̐̓̐͢͢n̔ͨ̇͐ͦ̃̉҉̷̠͎̳̝͍̲͚̙̟̬̤̟͉ͅd̐̉̄̾̀́͑ͮ͗̃͛̏ͩ͑̀̆̚҉͏͏̙̺͉͈͈̗͍̪̩̮͚̝̣͙͢͞ͅ ̸̮͓̰̱͎͇̙͔̖̙͓͔͇̙̾͆̊̅̍̄ͮ̿̅̃̃̚͜r̷̡͔̩͚̥̗ͩͮ̄ͨ̕ẽ͌͐͂ͮ̀͂̍ͮ̓́̎̈̊̒͗ͯ͏̴̫̰̙͇̳̙̫͍͈͈̦̙͖͘p̢ͯ̒̋̓ͩ̃ͥ̓̀ͯ̾͛̅ͬͨ̀҉̢̹̝̟̥̬͈̩̩͚͖̟ṛͧ͆̾̽̏ͫͣ͑̋ͤ͐͛ͫ̉̔̓͛̚͟͜ < 1293583583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did it? < 1293583587 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̳̞̗̯̫̟̗̘̣̲̫͚̝ͅe̜͚͚̞̝͎͖̗̺͐ͫ͛̔ͯͧ̐͒͆̊̊ͫ̀͆̋̿ͧ́ͪ̀̕͜͜͞ş̲̦͉̪͔̪ͭ͛ͬ́̈́ͦ̐ͯ̍ͯͫͭ̋̕e͖̟̩̠͐ͫ͒̀̀̚n̽͒͊̆̀͏̰̩̗̜̫̖͚͉̣̤̯͉̻t̡͍͈̦͓͔̟̱̳̰̹̺͈̖̪̪͐ͮͣ̊͗̾̉ͣ͛ͧ̚ỉ͖̗̹̲̩̤̖̗̗̦̹̟̳͎̯͈͒̑̈́ͤ́̕n̴̷̘̞͓͚͔̼̳̣̘͋̃̎̋͐̾ͅͅg̢̧̢̨͖̣̱̙̖̫͔͕͐̉̑͐͆̔̃͊ͩ̋ͮ̈̐̏̋̀͊ͪ ̵̼͎̼̬͚̜͇̔̈͂͊ͦ̿̃́͠͡͡ͅcͬͦ̿͊ͥͬ < 1293583593 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̸̨̰̩̪͎͍̥̫͔̻͖͍̯͔̤̖̋́͝h̨̙̬͓͈̱͉͖͈̖̫͍̫͕̱̟̼̳̥͌̓͒ͬ̈́̂̇́͛̎͂̈̓͠͞å̴̢̭̘͕̖͔̳̪̠͑̃̒ͭͤ̇̀͝o̴̺̩̰͚͎͚̺͓̭̘͕̠̩̫͍̺ͨͯ̒ͩ̈͂̀͘͜s̈́͒̓͛̎͌ͨ҉̳͎̩̙̣̗̣͍͓̰̟͎̟̖͔.̶̨̧̣̺͙͓̂͑ͬ̏͂ͩͧͪͭ̋ͦͤ͞͡ < 1293583594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it fail? < 1293583596 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̷̥̖̙͓̊̂̏̈ͭ̌ͩͯ̔͛̿ͬ͟͠I̶̷͓̥͔̗̰̼̬̽̽̆̓̐ͭͤ̋̅̍ͥ̒͒̑ͬ͠ͅn̵̶̘̠̳̠͕̥͈̳͈͓̈́͆ͬ̂ͥ̄ͮͨ̆ͫ̎ͥ̎v̛͍̹̲̳̗̼͚̮̹͕̖̺̘̗̲̭̊̀̽͒ͩ͋̓͌͌̿̕ͅö̡̆ͭͭ͊̓̌̈́̿̄̑ͧͦ̎̐͑͑͏̨͙̰̞̭̠̰̹̼̣͍̭k̲̲̪̖̫̗̠͇̼̲̗̣̣̩̟̦ͭ̆̽̈́͐͒ͮ͐̉͑̅̿̎͝ͅi̡̲̦͕͈̗͙̞̜̦̯̽ͯͣ͒͝ñ̵̴̨͇̳̦̦̻̱͚ͫ͛̓̔͂ͯ̍͢͟g̷̴̸̘̱̠̼̫̙̘͕̳̝̥͖̰ͩ̓̿̄ͬ̚͜͠ ͧͨ < 1293583601 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̗͇̱̹̦̺̐͆ͥͭ́͢͝͠t̴̺̝̩̹̺̠͙̺̘̱̤̻͖͓̐͐̈́ͭ͟͠h̲̼̮̰̰̤̞̙̅̒ͯ̃ͤ̽̓́̊̎ͬ͒̇̄ͨ͂͘̕e̸͓̥̯͈̬̘̼̯͕̱̠̖ͪ̔̽͐̈̉͊̿͊̓́̾͛̿͆̇̓͑͟͞͡ ̸̫̥̯̺̺̫̬͓͇̯̼̩͗̓ͣ̉̐̀ͭ̐ͣ̾ͭͪ͆͆́̑̀͠f̸̢̹͈̯̘̖͑̐̈́̏ͤ̊͛͞͡ͅë̶̛̛͙̦̱̻̣͔̘͙̠̣̖̯͇̻͈̓ͩ̔ͭͣ͗̿͒ͯ̎̂̈́̀͠ė̷̠͔̗̜̮̥͖͈̮ͥ̀̉ͪͨͬͩͩ͊͂̈ͭ̐͊ͯ͘͘l̇ͭ̏͋͒͐͑̈́ͭͥ̎̅ͮ̚͟҉̢͠ < 1293583606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :͖̪̪͇̙͕̣̲̟̻̹̬͕̹̜̱̝͖ĭ̢̡͔͚̼̞͙̖̮̙̯͕̺̪͚̪͔̘̼͓̖̾̉̓ͬ̔ͤ̊̊͒̐̊ͪ̍̓̕͘͟ñ̻̬͓̯̙̪̥̭̞͇͉̯̹̬̘̱͓̏̌ͦ̊͒̓ͦ̈́͜͡g̶̼̥̗̻͓̟̩͚̱̺̗̼̰̈̓̒ͬͯ́́͠ ̧̛̦̺̫͔̥̲͇̪̈͛̌̑ͫ͆ͨͮ͛̆̒̚̚ȍ̧̖̺͎̤̘͈͎̫̱̩̆̽͑ͦͤ͌͌͡͡f̛̜̤̹̙̱̟̩̞̻̱ͣ͂̓̌͗̋ͬ̽ͤ̅̔̅͠ ̶̸̬̝̩̜̱̥̆ͤ͛ͧ̈̔ͩ̕͢͡c̷̵̢̯͉̦͚̘̳̹̘̭͙̦̈̃̊͐͋ͧ̉̾ͩ͊͆͆ͭͤͫ̀ < 1293583611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̲̖̰͇̲̰̣̳hͥ̓̈̓ͭ̊͛̒̕͏͕̲̘̥̹̲̥̩̹̗͇̼ͅͅaͩ̍̈́̔͐ͥ̋͐̔̾ͩ͗ͮͣͫ̚̚͏̧̩̭̫͉̞͉̗́̕͝ő͎͉̤̈̅̓̆͐ͨ̎͗̽̉͋ͬͪͩ̂͡͝͞ͅs̮̣̮̤̺̘̣͍̱̤͕̠͓̼̗̦͌̔ͣͦͣ̓̊̑̑̏̋̆̿̀̕͜ͅ.̸̶̡̬̖̠̖̦͎̲͖͈͓̲̦͓̱̮͉̥̂̒ͦͩ͟ < 1293583615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̡͙̳͙͍͓̞͚͖̤̘̯̭̮̹̥͉̊̐̏ͭ̐ͨͯ̿͘͡ͅW̵̨̡̯̮̜̰̩͎͇̠̮̖͚̗̯̬̞̦͓̒ͦ̑̈͑͗̑ͥͩͫͪͬ̋ͦ̂̔̀̚i̅͊ͣͫ̒̊̾́͊ͪ͐ͩ̌͒ͦ͂͏̰͔̞̮͉̹͔̲͖͉̩͎̤̟̳̫ͅt͆̓͐ͫͧ́̉̈́ͪ̋ͣ̄͑ͮ͗͒̓͏̧̛̪͇̳͟͡ͅ < 1293583619 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1293583621 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fail :( < 1293583623 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid IRC length limit :P < 1293583625 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also XChat cutting off limit < 1293583646 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you seem to be spitting out line noise < 1293583657 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: that's just the zalgo. < 1293583668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, actually biased noise < 1293583673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to unicode combining chars < 1293583752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, zalgo is part of zlib right? < 1293583759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the z algorithm obviously < 1293583763 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. you're right I can read it every few chars there's a real letter < 1293583859 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: when you going to make websplat work on the wii... so I can have my computer back when my kids come over? < 1293583901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it seems to read as a message < 1293583903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: When you buy me a Wii! < 1293583906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lots of unicode combining < 1293583923 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is there some kind of debug mode? < 1293583940 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give you environment information or such < 1293583964 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's failing due to the js engine sucking < 1293583966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, doesn't your browser have a js console? < 1293583985 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I could find < 1293583990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We're talking about the Wii. < 1293584000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make it work in opera mini (note: I doubt this) < 1293584007 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Buy me a Wi < 1293584008 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1293584043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, verily < 1293584046 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could go through the source and try to figure it out instead of complaining like a loser < 1293584081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is wii wrt. homebrew? < 1293584085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, linux < 1293584114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's linux and a bunch of homebrew < 1293584134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293584134 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the media player is nice, well as nice as SD resolution will allow < 1293584152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, SD? < 1293584155 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :480p < 1293584178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, right... I prefer my 24" computer TFT for all purposes < 1293584191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for carrying, then I prefer a smaller 15" laptop) < 1293584214 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD IT PLUGS INTO A TELEVISION IT'S USELESS < 1293584219 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1293584228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, I have a TV from the 80s < 1293584235 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of your problem < 1293584241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacks scart and so on < 1293584246 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: calm yourself.. ssh server ;) < 1293584257 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I was mocking Vorpal, not agreeing with him. < 1293584261 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1293584328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ useless compared to a full PC. Except for getting money from buyers < 1293584344 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You realise it's meant for playing games, yes? < 1293584358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes, so why not an advanced PC for it? < 1293584368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see bsmntbombdood's computer for example < 1293584380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293584380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am punching you over the internet, and one day, you will be able to experience it. < 1293584384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because, and I know you have trouble with this, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT YOU. < 1293584389 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because technology is worthless, today is not that day. < 1293584393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But one day, you will feel the punches. < 1293584395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that doesn't really answer it < 1293584403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DO NOT WANT AN EXPENSIVE HIGH-END MACHINE TO PLAY GAMES. < 1293584413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cost of bsmntbombdood's machine: $1600 < 1293584416 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost of Wii: like 3 cents? < 1293584423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY WANT A CHEAP, COMPACT GAMES CONSOLE WHICH WORKS WITH VERY LITTLE SETUP EFFORT. < 1293584432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, cost of wii games = high, very high < 1293584433 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the Wii due to the games available for it < 1293584440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this makes no sense < 1293584445 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cost of PC games = high, very high < 1293584449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, £40 for new releases, drops off later? < 1293584449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes true < 1293584458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, more than minecraft < 1293584469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what. < 1293584471 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PEOPLE PLAY GAMES THAT AREN'T MINECRAFT < 1293584480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, really? < 1293584486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this sounds like a strange concept < 1293584489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of the games I want to play are PC games < 1293584492 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not punching you any more; I am using a knife, and it is stabbing you. < 1293584495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, quite < 1293584496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hack your wii, download games for bittorrent.. games = $0 < 1293584502 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1293584504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, hah < 1293584504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do please indicate a modern game that's less than £40. < 1293584508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new one. < 1293584513 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, making stupid jokes doesn't distract anyone from the fact that you've lost the argument. < 1293584515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, just released. < 1293584517 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: used that to try a couple games before I bought them < 1293584520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, minecraft. < 1293584524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft. < 1293584524 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft. < 1293584525 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, minecraft. < 1293584527 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FUCK OFF >_< < 1293584529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OTHER GAMES. < 1293584534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you didn't say < 1293584539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM A MAJOR GAMES STUDIO < 1293584542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but then I don't know. I don't follow that market < 1293584548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ...ugh. < 1293584552 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And yet you believe yourself to be qualified to speak about these subjects. < 1293584560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I believe they are too expensive < 1293584562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1293584562 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because you have successfully lodged your head firmly up somewhere it's not meant to go. < 1293584570 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FACT THAT GAMES ARE EXPENSIVE IS IRRELEVANT. < 1293584573 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental note: never mention the wii in this channel again < 1293584573 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are talking about *consoles*. < 1293584583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are just so utterly, utterly thoughtless. In the literal sense that you put no thought whatsoever into what you say. < 1293584584 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The Wii would still have to be sold if computers existed. As an IR receiver. < 1293584585 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a controller. < 1293584593 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would be a big part of the cost of the Wii itself. < 1293584595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if games were priced like minecraft you would get much less pirating < 1293584599 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It's okay, it's just that Vorpal is a moron. < 1293584599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait computers don't exist < 1293584604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We yell at him no matter what. < 1293584606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Jesus, you just have no idea. < 1293584606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you still get some < 1293584623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal is right on one level < 1293584627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrong on so many ohters < 1293584628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft is not Half-life 2. < 1293584637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I agree.. the wii hardware is total crap < 1293584643 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S BETTER BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE FPSES, ERGO, I'M RIGHT < 1293584645 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1293584649 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get it for that tho.. < 1293584687 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have to admit being able to put linux on it did make it appealing lol < 1293584693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, do you have WoG on Wii? < 1293584719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → AWAY FROM VORPAL'S IDIOCY < 1293584745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293584759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, quite. I'm an moron for helping with the cube < 1293584765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why I did in the first place < 1293584771 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this? no http://www.amazon.com/Mario-Sonic-Olympic-Winter-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B001SIFNXW < 1293584782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I meant World of Goo < 1293584784 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Everything is going to end up in you saying "WAAH CUBE" isn't it. < 1293584806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I did not say that < 1293584809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, does building stuff like that in MC require special intellect? < 1293584832 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1293584838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1293584839 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bits Vorpal is helping with are essentially drudge work. < 1293584839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very droll < 1293584864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and getting coords, and so on. A lot of stuff you couldn't have done without getting lost < 1293584865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was the last time I was called a complete idiot? < 1293584895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could have found the lake myself, it would have just taken longer. < 1293584935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. you think I'm a complete idiot for thinking gaming consoles are stupid and pointless... right < 1293584943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows you have strong feelings about them < 1293584946 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1293584952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even own any consoles, the last I bought was the GameCube. < 1293584952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hadn't heard of it.. I assume you like WoG? < 1293584958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that your reasons are really, really, really stupid. < 1293584961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which they are. < 1293584963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, maybe they're pointless for you. Other people like Wii games < 1293585063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3 was nice < 1293585066 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Wii emulator.. how fast does it run on your fancy pc? < 1293585068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you could run linux on it < 1293585082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I wish I had a fancy PC. never invested in one < 1293585100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wish for this convo < 1293585103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a fancy PC < 1293585105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have the money < 1293585114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have the need < 1293585123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, give me the money? ;) < 1293585126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I spend it on other stuff < 1293585131 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my bad, bsmntbombdood's pc < 1293585133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not going to happen :P < 1293585150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well he could do it. my current computers can't, but I could afford one that could < 1293585158 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: bsmntbombdood's is i7/SSD/12 GiB, so it should work fairly well :-P < 1293585162 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a lot cheaper to buy a wii. < 1293585170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, unless you get the IR receiver and the wiimote it's... beyond pointless. < 1293585177 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's like 60% of the cost of a Wii right there. < 1293585209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the games shouldn't have been made for that platform really. Of course emulation is going to be slow < 1293585230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... games shouldn't have been made for the Wii? < 1293585242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because emulating the Wii system on PC is annoying? < 1293585247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I misreading Vorpal < 1293585249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1293585251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are misreading me < 1293585256 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad they weren't made for pc because then I'd have to boot winblows to play them < 1293585260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1293585268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that is a fair point < 1293585273 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you are misreading me < 1293585276 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1293585295 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's no real point to keep talking about this because (1) you've enumerated all of your "points", several times and (2) nobody agrees with them. < 1293585328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal said I was misreading him < 1293585328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, while /you/ have not given any real substantial reasons < 1293585332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he should clarify < 1293585336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only good reason I seen so far is that calamari made < 1293585364 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, except, i don't /feel/ like giving any reasons since you're the one spouting bullshit < 1293585371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, of course emulation will be slower than native. For any platform, A Wii emulating a PC to play a PC game would be slow as well < 1293585372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've /rebutted/ all your stupid reasons and that's enough. < 1293585374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really a good reason... lol < 1293585400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so the "speed for emulating" question is a bit nonsense < 1293585411 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest we stop feeding him < 1293585436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trolling < 1293585452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott wants you to die < 1293585460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293585461 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never said you were trolling. < 1293585464 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do think we should stop feeding you < 1293585467 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has wanted me to die in the past, I'm sure < 1293585479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, he wants everyone to die at some point < 1293585485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everyone except himself < 1293585496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he could have stabbed me with an icepick through the internet he would have (re: forkbomb article) < 1293585497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is very emotional, easy to overreact and so on < 1293585497 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably did < 1293585514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what article was that? < 1293585523 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably would have deserved it a little bit lol < 1293585535 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i don't want anyone to die, but hey, in that case pikhq had just as much vitrol as me >:) < 1293585559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't really overreact so much as I'm always ready to start yelling at you because I find the requirement to come up astonishingly often. < 1293585572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you do at other people too < 1293585577 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like when you used to be able to set Mozilla to load at system startup to make it quicker when you start it < 1293585598 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really. I don't recall yelling at ais523 or olsner or Gregor or ... < 1293585611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, gregor and autoconf < 1293585614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, seriously? < 1293585617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you yelled at him < 1293585620 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't "yell", I disagreed. < 1293585631 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with *bold marks*. < 1293585635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall you yelling at anyone. do you ever caps lock? < 1293585635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ais523: only once iirc, and over a year ago < 1293585642 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an opinionated asshole, it's easy to get into it with me :) < 1293585646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that is rare. But he doesn't yell that way < 1293585646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is watching a Bit of Fry and Laurie. < 1293585651 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The fact that you're *keeping track of who I yell at* suggests you're ... uh, crazy. < 1293585661 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: love that shit. which one? < 1293585662 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I capslock exclusively for Vorpal, it is a privilege and honour reserved solely for ihm. < 1293585676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wrong. You yelled at sgeo I think < 1293585677 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1293585695 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I hold down shift at those junctures. < 1293585698 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: First episode. < 1293585699 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since he usually shuts up pretty quickly. < 1293585981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have misplaced trust in elliott_ < 1293585987 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1293585993 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust in me is always golden. < 1293585999 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am like a shining pillar of perfection. < 1293586029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1293586058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was the last time I disagreed with elliott_? < 1293586067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the time? < 1293586068 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I may have misplaced trust in elliott_ < 1293586068 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1293586087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I take your opinions too seriously < 1293586109 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, I *am* always right. < 1293586133 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293586198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you know what hubris is? < 1293586200 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you overstate your positions sometimes, but you have a lot of rightness. occasionally you make matters of opinion out to be more black and white than they are and that is a bit irksome. < 1293586212 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Something that doesn't apply to people who are already right. < 1293586215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, verily < 1293586218 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You see, the thing is that I'm always right. < 1293586231 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I do not actually believe that I am always right.) < 1293586233 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I do!) < 1293586236 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No I don't. etc.) < 1293586239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when i am right and i disagree with you < 1293586241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also split personality) < 1293586253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: then you're wrong < 1293586253 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might start to sway me into thinking i'm wrong < 1293586269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, don't let that happen < 1293586269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i realize i was wrong about being wrong and was actually right < 1293586275 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to know you are wrong sometimes < 1293586289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, are you right about that? < 1293586322 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1293586329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1293586335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: unfortunately, you're wrong, that never happens < 1293586339 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because i know it never happens < 1293586340 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm always right < 1293586358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone need instructions for making a cross compiler to RCX on modern linux? < 1293586369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a guide, surely /someone/ out there needs it < 1293586372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here's proof you're sometimes wrong...you are wrong about always being right < 1293586396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/lego/rcx-toolchain-guide/guide.html < 1293586397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the smell of nitrogen is overpowering < 1293586421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw, True Grit is a p cool movie. i smell an oscar nomination for jeff bridges < 1293586432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't nitrogen odorless? < 1293586442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I'm pretty sure you can't smell nitrogen < 1293586451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was joking < 1293586459 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, here's proof you're sometimes wrong...you are wrong about always being right < 1293586460 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong. < 1293586468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/esj6l/fire_officials_noticed_a_strong_odor_of_carbon/c1akw23 < 1293586483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1293586486 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. It's HTML. < 1293586488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that commentor is a moron < 1293586492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1293586503 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hypertext markdown language < 1293586539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the source of it is < 1293586545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, see same file .md < 1293586567 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's a lie < 1293586569 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo you are sometimes wrong < 1293586571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I saw no way to make a comment in markdown :P < 1293586573 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo i'm right < 1293586588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never claimed I was /always/ right. I just disputed you were always right < 1293586602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I see another typo there < 1293586605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I will fix < 1293586605 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your Makefile is wrong < 1293586609 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't define all and clean to be phony targets < 1293586615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you're a failure right < 1293586628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well all and clean are not required to be that < 1293586633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if you create them: so what < 1293586641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not my issue < 1293586644 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: touch all; make < 1293586647 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will produce incorrect results < 1293586650 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your makefile is WRONG. < 1293586657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so will rm -f Makefile; make < 1293586663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that produces wrong result too < 1293586675 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but all is a perfectly valid filename and so is clean < 1293586676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets slightly creeped out by Reddit Enhancement Suite being in View Source of a reddit page < 1293586682 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your makefile doesn't say "BREAKS IF YOU MAKE ALL OR CLEAN" < 1293586694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you are absurd < 1293586725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no elliott_ is quite correct < 1293586732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all and clean ought to be phony targets < 1293586736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes but it is not of any importance really < 1293586746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it also breaks if you >guide.md && > guide.html && make < 1293586748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one line < 1293586749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go do it < 1293586753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this will not rebuild guide.html < 1293586765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, now that ehird said it? No :P < 1293586773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Vorpal having an off day? < 1293586776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msut be < 1293586798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, actually they are already phony locally < 1293586804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so I guess I just forgot to push < 1293586813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEN PUSH GODDAMMIT < 1293586820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, sure. < 1293586835 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: AMEND < 1293586895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[on web browsers] < 1293586895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:35 Sgeo: what you must do, of course, is write your own < 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:23 Able to use WebKit, Gecko, or .. the IE one as necessary < 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:32 Able to use extensions from any browser < 1293586896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:06:50 Can use GreaseMonkey scripts designed for any browser < 1293586903 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why, my OS can run Windows, Linux, and BeOS binaries! < 1293586913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can't < 1293586918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, refresh < 1293586922 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it was a joke < 1293586928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't even know what you're talking about < 1293586949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, since you complained about the makefile above, refresh < 1293586961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be easier than the browser thing? < 1293586977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ........................................................................................................................................ < 1293586985 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should kill Sgeo. Also Vorpal. < 1293586998 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:11:35 Can I use IE6's Trident if IE>6 is installed? < 1293586999 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:12:11 So that businesses can use this browser in place of IE6 < 1293587037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could, with a lot of pain. Such as a VM. < 1293587040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and invoke that < 1293587081 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss cpressey. < 1293587106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the kernel can be set up to invoke WINE, and WINE keeps improving, a system would run both Win32 and Linux executables easily < 1293587108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yeah haven't seen him for a while < 1293587112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wonder where he is < 1293587120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he left because the channel was eating all his time. < 1293587123 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's still active on the wiki. < 1293587126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah okay < 1293587129 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i miss mocking you in /msg! < 1293587132 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i shouldn't have said that < 1293587142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I know you are a complete turd. So what < 1293587153 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so cpressey is a complete turd too? :) < 1293587176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably not. Only 45% or so < 1293587228 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293587246 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293587246 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is voxelperfect.net expired? < 1293587258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the owner was LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME < 1293587265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :this channel is 45% turds on average | voxelperfect.net has expired, the wiki is still reachable at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293587281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will correct the bookmark now. < 1293587296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was the owner? < 1293587300 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue < 1293587309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope esolangs.org won't expire < 1293587311 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293587317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought graue owned esolangs.org? < 1293587325 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ineded < 1293587326 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Indeed < 1293587336 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think voxelperfect only had esolangs on really < 1293587340 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I fixed the bookmark now. < 1293587357 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Administrative Contact: < 1293587357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1293587357 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Feeney, Scott another.step.away@gmail.com < 1293587359 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's Graue. < 1293587361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: He ... owned both, and didn't tell us when one expired, even though all it had was esolangs? :P < 1293587364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs is a better name anyway < 1293587373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes I'm scared < 1293587375 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It might have been an accidental slip; it was just the 27th. < 1293587379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He's edited the wiki recently. < 1293587383 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And esolangs is registered until 2011. < 1293587384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm < 1293587391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that is just a few days away! < 1293587392 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly he got tired of paying for two < 1293587395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It conceivably had non-esolangs stuff that just wasn't linked to < 1293587404 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1293587407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org isn't Graue's. < 1293587413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registrant Name:Alan Dipert < 1293587413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registrant Email:completelycrazy@aol.com < 1293587418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess we're OK then :P < 1293587420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the heck is that < 1293587421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who dat? < 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Created On:24-May-2005 19:21:16 UTC < 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last Updated On:03-Dec-2009 07:12:24 UTC < 1293587422 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expiration Date:24-May-2011 19:21:16 UTC < 1293587424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh < 1293587426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, who is alan dipert? < 1293587426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who is that? < 1293587431 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have NO FUCKING CLUE :P < 1293587434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh uh < 1293587439 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alan.dipert.org/ < 1293587441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Then maybe they could get a subdomain if we need to, for non-esolangs stuff? (Except possibly things in the wiki, such as DottyWeb and so on) < 1293587452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least we have an email < 1293587456 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google thinks one of his best works is https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic < 1293587478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, dude how the heck did he get around the license problems of that < 1293587488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosaic is /not/ foss < 1293587504 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the source has been available for N years. < 1293587519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but check https://github.com/alandipert/ncsa-mosaic/blob/1e53bc1a5fb778f0bbcf49364d5947e666f2fbbd/COPYRIGHT < 1293587536 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Licensee may make derivative works. However, if Licensee distributes * < 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * any derivative work based on or derived from the Software, then * < 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Licensee will (1) notify NCSA regarding its distribution of the * < 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * derivative work, and (2) clearly notify users that such derivative * < 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * work is a modified version and not the original NCSA Mosaic * < 1293587537 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * distributed by the UI. * < 1293587547 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically all he had to do was email NCSA and change one line. < 1293587556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm < 1293587559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's (almost) as FOSS as TeX. < 1293587568 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX you have to change the name; this you have to change the name and tell them. < 1293587579 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NCSA probably aren't going away ever. < 1293587580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fair enough < 1293587597 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After NCSA stopped work on Mosaic, development of the NCSA Mosaic for the X Window System source code was continued by several independent groups. These independent development efforts include mMosaic (multicast Mosaic)[19] which ceased development in early 2004, and Mosaic-CK and VMS Mosaic which are both under active development as of July 2010. < 1293587611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multicast mosaic? < 1293587613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... < 1293587615 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/9610_Workshop/paper05/paper05.html < 1293587645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1293587658 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/9610_Workshop/paper05/user-ex.gif UNIX! < 1293587677 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could not look at screens like that all day without vomiting :P < 1293587683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually with TeX it is a bit different: Files like plain.tex you have to just change the name; with tex.web you have to put changes in separate files (but can still call it TeX as long as it passes the TRIP test), but the algorithms in TeX are public domain, so I assume the copyright on tex.web is like a collection copyright. < 1293587698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, blame mosaic's fucking stupid X resources < 1293587701 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fair enough. < 1293587707 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The cyan background doesn't help < 1293587720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, true < 1293587724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, you are still not allowed to call any software derived from it "tex.web") < 1293587732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but bold italic menus? < 1293587737 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Even if it passes TRIP? < 1293587739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's just utterly stupid < 1293587745 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't /think/ that's default. < 1293587750 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So someone, somewhere, decided to TURN IT INTO THAT. < 1293587750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is < 1293587752 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius. < 1293587753 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1293587766 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why us typography nerds are important, guys. < 1293587772 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we'd been around then, we'd have bludgeoned the guy to death. < 1293587774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, was like one of the first things I changed when I got the thing to work < 1293587785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes and you would have been locked up < 1293587785 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you ever try and get Mosaic to work. < 1293587787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes I think so. However if it doesn't pass TRIP, you are not allowed to call *executables* derived from it + change files "tex". If it does pass TRIP, you can call its executables "tex". < 1293587789 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_, yes and you would have been locked up < 1293587794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Worth it to avoid Mosaic, innit? < 1293587794 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good typography is invisible, bad typography is everywhere < 1293587797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this is how understand it. < 1293587806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, worth it anyway! < 1293587814 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I said. < 1293587818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how /how I / < 1293587823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right < 1293587840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway, I tried mosaic because I was interested in computer history < 1293587849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, same as you tried PDP emulators < 1293587852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is correct? (Knuth hasn't made it entirely clear; but I think this is the intention.) < 1293587881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but history enthusiasts don't try and be a Jew in a realistic reenactment of the holocaust. < 1293587889 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, use of the name TeX is intended to be governed by trademark law, not copyright law.) < 1293587890 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So why did you revisit an interface holocaust? < 1293587901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yet they reenact the civil war and such < 1293587909 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but they don't use actual guns. < 1293587912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I didn't know the interface < 1293587916 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Mosaic is like shooting yourself repeatedly. < 1293587923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I found out after < 1293587930 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... didn't know? < 1293587933 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long ago was this? < 1293587937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, a few years < 1293587955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two things to look at: The copyright page of Computers & Typesetting Volume B, and the comment at the beginning of tex.web. < 1293587957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like, weeks after I learnt C < 1293587971 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319327833/clubcompy-kids-heart-computers/posts/46045 "Why Teach Programming with BASIC" ... I think I have another person I need to kill. < 1293587973 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293587991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I believe it is like a collection copyright. Do you think this is reasonable? < 1293587996 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps encourage him, and infect his curriculum with insanity; hopefully it will scare everyone subjected to it off from programming forever. < 1293588006 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, that's better than having BASIC-weened programmers running around.) < 1293588009 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure. < 1293588018 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293588063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, anyway mosaic isn't that bad < 1293588066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, apart from the UI < 1293588069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the actual code < 1293588073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that bad < 1293588080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means only the idea is left < 1293588080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But Mosaic is a UI made out of code. < 1293588082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that isn't bad < 1293588088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes but the non-UI code is also horrible < 1293588091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1293588092 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is WIMP, and I'd argue WIMP is pretty bad :P < 1293588109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the BASIC referred to have decent control structures? < 1293588114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they don't teach GOTO < 1293588132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what's wrong with 20 GOTO 10? < 1293588143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Teaching it to kids < 1293588162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ... did you think I was serious? < 1293588189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No comment. < 1293588194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1293588195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what makes Sgeo try and apologise for idiots. < 1293588239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, everyone knows you sshould teach programming with LOGO < 1293588260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program once that allowed you to write GWBASIC programs without line numbers (something like WEB, actually; there were a few differences, one was that it printed to Epson control codes). < 1293588279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Similarly, BASIC's relative lack of abstractions is an advantage to people who've never programmed before." or, you know, you could just choose a language that has those abstractions but doesn't force them < 1293588279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I'm all for scheme. Though if you are targeting pre-high school that might not work out so well for the majority of the cases. < 1293588285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Python comes to mind) < 1293588321 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Python is a terrible first language to teach. < 1293588328 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a second language -- or a third language -- or a language. < 1293588340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1293588362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big issue that I see with it being a first language is that it's different from mainstream languages in the importance of indentation < 1293588367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, an imperative one might work better if you are trageting pre-highschool < 1293588372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People might rely on it too much < 1293588380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1293588388 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...shut up. < 1293588390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not for you and me indeed < 1293588392 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: these are like 10 year olds. < 1293588395 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imperative seems intuitive only because we know it. < 1293588396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, /but/ for the majority of kids < 1293588399 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Same with WIMP interfaces. < 1293588402 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Same with filesystems. < 1293588413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guarantee you that none of these are actually intuitive the first time around. < 1293588442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I think you are wrong, but I give you the benefit of doubt. imperative is like shouting commands. functional is like math. < 1293588470 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Filesystems are like filing cabinets. Object space is like goop. Do you have any idea how much trouble my mother has with filesystems? < 1293588477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can construct metaphors that seem just about right. That's irrelevant. < 1293588498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, like goop? eh < 1293588510 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, formless nothingness where you have to dig to find anything. < 1293588514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make new computer, BASIC and Forth are both built-in to the system. (Others can be installed separately, or cross-compiled from other computers, or whatever.) And BASIC is not recommended for new programs, it is there for compatibility with old computers and old books. < 1293588519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystems are not like filing cabinets. That you can construct a bad analogy does not mean that all analogies are bad < 1293588523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm. Are you sure that is a /good/ thing < 1293588540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also I agree filesystems are bad < 1293588542 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course not. < 1293588549 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was showing how metaphors can make filesystems look good. < 1293588554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way makes sense? < 1293588555 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're intuitive - everyone knows how to use filing cabinets. < 1293588556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but a file system is not the same as imperative programming < 1293588564 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm DEMONSTRATING HOW METAPHORS ARE NOT A VALID METHOD OF ARGUMENTATION. < 1293588569 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I used capslock. < 1293588570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I agree they aren't < 1293588580 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative -- it's like shouting commands! No, that doesn't really work at all. < 1293588588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And really, is asking for input a command you shout?) < 1293588591 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The link is very tenuous.) < 1293588599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" < 1293588602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative is a list of instructions. < 1293588607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, why not that? < 1293588621 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, even if imperative is "easier" to teach it's still a bad idea. < 1293588623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes that is better is more like how imperative is like. < 1293588630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so it is < 1293588643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, A HOLLOW VOICE SHOUTS PLUGH (yes, yes, paraphrased) < 1293588645 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have less people be able to program than a bunch of people who have no idea how to program well. < 1293588665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, verily but try to get that past the radar < 1293588689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it will be screams about elitism and segregation all over. < 1293588712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Sweden < 1293588725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your politics might be different < 1293588729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ha, you are so lucky to be able to complain about too *much* populism. < 1293588735 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some value of populism.) < 1293588745 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think programming at pre-high-school level is more likely to get cries of "but that's *useless*!" here. < 1293588756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well it would that too < 1293588788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not sure this is populism actually. It is generally the Swedish education style. Dumb things down until almost everyone pass. < 1293588836 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, you see that everywhere because of STATISTICS, we need better STATISTICS, exam results will improve THIS MUCH in five years -- and they do because now they're easy. < 1293588841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is true up to university level. Then it changes /drastically/ < 1293588843 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do is this my new make computer, even the manual includes information about how to use these built-in programming languages, and you are encouraged to learn it and write a program. But you do not have to write a program to use this computer; you could just insert the DVD and play the game. < 1293588844 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics is fucked, what's new? < 1293588877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how zzo... < 1293588899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it doesn't change anything really) < 1293588911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is like pre-installing MSVC or something) < 1293588980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch Q-Less soon < 1293589057 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a Q episode and it's not Enterprise. Prepare for suckage. < 1293589068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You meant TNG < 1293589069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293589071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes. < 1293589077 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and it's not set on the Enterprise. < 1293589078 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA RETCON < 1293589096 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it does change some things, the entire computer is very different. < 1293589096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's still mandatory? < 1293589116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: It's a Q episode and it's not Enterprise. Prepare for suckage. <-- I was wondering if it was star trek too < 1293589147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/too// < 1293589165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 watching stuff on YouTube < 1293589188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as, you do not have to learn any operating system, you can just put the DVD in and push START button if you want; but you can learn the operating system too (or even modify the operating system) if you want to.) < 1293589190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what stuff? < 1293589197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek < 1293589238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, split into 10 minute videos? < 1293589252 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1293589256 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because BitTorrent is HARD. < 1293589272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, won't they get "aaargh remove this" stuff < 1293589272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wikilog is 528MB < 1293589276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not have them there < 1293589278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that it's not bigger than that. < 1293589281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wikilog hm? < 1293589285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do < 1293589292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just heard a quote that I seem to remember has some relevance later < 1293589299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like irc logs which you can comment on, using a wiki? < 1293589310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... no :P < 1293589319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it should be! < 1293589326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, (but seriously, what is it?) < 1293589328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That ... is nonsense. < 1293589345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My backup of the wiki is stored in hg, so I have a log external to its own log. < 1293589356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh nice < 1293589367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it is good to know someone has a backup of it < 1293589404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are several. < 1293589444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, could be that graue lets shit hit the fan and so on < 1293589456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vps/dedi/whatever going away or such) < 1293589532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made in TeXnicard, a variation of Martin Pool's natural compare algorithm, but it does more things such as roman numerals compare, numbers with radix point, numbers with comma as thousands separator, and a few more. It is customizable at run time by the S table. < 1293589543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about this? < 1293589571 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very sophisticated < 1293589580 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably use it elsewhere < 1293589612 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293589636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have put it in its own chapter. You could probably use it elsewhere and put a bibliography citation if you want to. < 1293589896 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: except it's in TeX :) < 1293589943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually it is in C. < 1293589963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1293589981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX. < 1293590061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does create .tex and .mf and whatever as output files, and then TeX makes the .dvi file, and then TeXnicard will read the .dvi file again and then calls ImageMagick to create .png and so on.) < 1293590288 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper code in C, assuming both functions have the same return type and arguments? (fractional?compare_left:compare_right)(pa,pb) < 1293590530 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably not. < 1293590538 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*(fractional?compare_left:compare_right))(pa,pb) possibly. < 1293590657 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293590683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, does it handle comma as decimal separator (Swedish use that) < 1293590684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually it looks like it compiled without error. < 1293590694 0 :zeotrope!~zeotrope@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric < 1293590699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can customize those things by modifying the S table. < 1293590729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Plenty of invalid programs compile without error. < 1293590731 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What compiler? < 1293590741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: GNU C < 1293590754 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Try -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic. < 1293590759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if both return function pointers < 1293590763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they it sounds valid < 1293590765 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That will probably tell you it's not valid C90. < 1293590769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't promise you that < 1293590774 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "(fractional?compare_left:compare_right)(pa,pb)" I am not sure this is valid. < 1293590782 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need to do (*f)() in such a complex expression. < 1293590790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm maybe < 1293590818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, who knows < 1293590844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, function pointer syntax is a bit whacky really < 1293591366 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you get an error? < 1293591639 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also should be kept in mind that 'bastards' is often used in English as a generic derogatory term, not necessarily relating to the marital status of one's parents.[3] < 1293591899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then it makes even less sense, with no moving parts there isn't anything with a velocity. < 1293591899 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shutter requiring the energy of a nuclear bomb to work is much cooler to think about." < 1293591923 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so have you built that infinite energy machine yet < 1293591970 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of using it to build a maxwell demon < 1293591989 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that case it would have to know where it was, as well as where every air particle is < 1293592018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really the kind of abstract information I was trying to exploit < 1293592173 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think the issue is this: fundamentally, infinite information != infinite energy < 1293592182 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: infinite information *generated according to physics* = infinite energy < 1293592189 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this box basically violates physics, you can't exploit any byproducts of it < 1293592232 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293592236 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess os < 1293592250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information confuses me < 1293592549 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293592567 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293592883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do you know what complexity class Coq is? < 1293592895 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's bigger than PR (has Ackermann) but smaller than R (obviously) < 1293592901 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia lists no classes in-between those two < 1293592933 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively what type of automaton it is < 1293593174 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BARTYOUWANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAWANDHOCKEYMASK < 1293593254 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: might have to understand a normalization proof to get a handle on that - I have absolutely no idea < 1293593277 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hehe yeah < 1293593444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq guarantees halting < 1293593446 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293593457 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293593544 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes. < 1293593549 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if it did not, it would be inconsistent. < 1293593571 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is a proof of anything. also, you would have a _type_ that doesn't halt i.e. _|_ : Set and I have no fucking clue what that would mean < 1293593575 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds very scary :-) < 1293593637 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it would be inconsistent? wouldn't it just be incomplete in a different way? (i have never used coq so i need more exposition) < 1293593702 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because _|_ would prove everything < 1293593704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proofs are values < 1293593715 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know Haskell -- < 1293593719 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can initialise any value to undefined < 1293593727 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, undefined is a value of every type < 1293593728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1293593733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, undefined is a proof of every proposition < 1293593733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Coq < 1293593771 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1293593801 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it coq/haskell tradition to call bottom undefined? (i don't really know haskell either) < 1293593804 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p : P means that p is a proof of P. If we can always reduce p to a normal form the we can make the following argument: < 1293593823 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no proof of false because there is no normal form proof of false < 1293593841 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it coq/haskell tradition to call bottom undefined? (i don't really know haskell either) < 1293593842 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has < 1293593845 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined = error "undefined" < 1293593851 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just haskell tradition < 1293593857 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq has no _|_-relevant traditions, as it has no _|_ :) < 1293593919 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but being less than total recursive makes it impossible to guarantee p can always be reduced to a normal form and therefore the argument fails? < 1293593929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq has no _|_? < 1293593930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1293593952 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what do you mean less than total recursive? < 1293593995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, does agda always guarantee termination as well? < 1293593998 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott_> j-invariant: it's bigger than PR (has Ackermann) but smaller than R (obviously) < 1293594020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PR? < 1293594024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that now again < 1293594029 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: primitive recursive < 1293594032 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every primitive recursive function is total < 1293594033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh right < 1293594036 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agda does, unless you tell it not to, in which case you can do whatever you want < 1293594042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah < 1293594043 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is used an uncomfortably lot) < 1293594049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1293594062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it should really only be used to make a main loop or such < 1293594068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I feel < 1293594071 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Solvable groups are sometimes called "soluble groups," a turn of phrase that is a source of possible amusement to chemists. ' <-- hear that chemists??? possible amusment! < 1293594075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't need that < 1293594078 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SolvableGroup.html < 1293594079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh? < 1293594080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if you have a codata IO monad :-) < 1293594080 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: my bad...i meant the name of the class of all computable functions < 1293594094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, ah < 1293594100 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh man i feel this possible amusement bubbling up in my gut < 1293594101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it has that sort of stuff < 1293594103 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that indigestion < 1293594107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or does it? < 1293594108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well no agda doesn't :D < 1293594108 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1293594109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: all computable functions are total < 1293594112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right < 1293594121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, does any language? < 1293594148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I mean, any implemented one < 1293594156 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but thankfully there are only like three languages like Coq and Agda. :) < 1293594159 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you can't make a programming language that matches that exactly < 1293594164 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes you can < 1293594164 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so is my statement correct about said class? is that the reason the proof fails? < 1293594168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, which is the third one? < 1293594170 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php < 1293594176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://damienkatz.net/2008/03/what_sucks_abou.html < 1293594179 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Epigram? :p < 1293594182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh < 1293594184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, 1 or 2? < 1293594185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that the criticisms of if are braindead < 1293594189 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in a Turing machine < 1293594192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the reordering thing though < 1293594213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i'm just trolling :) < 1293594219 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages step over the line, and you have a lot of programs which never halt. Coq and others don't cross the line but they try to get close to it < 1293594222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: also you can if you acecpt the undefined behaviour of not halting when given an invalid program < 1293594224 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accept < 1293594228 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no it's a good point I shouldnt' make that assumption implicitly < 1293594248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well super-turing languages are pretty useless :p < 1293594262 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sub-turing languages requiring a super-turing machine to run with full error reporting triply so < 1293594267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it also means you can't distinguish easily at runtime between a string and a list, and especially between a string and a list of integers." < 1293594280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually super-turing languages are very useful. But not usable < 1293594283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing [97,98] into erlang returns "ab" < 1293594283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1293594285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand how Erlang's string stuff has problems... that's not really one of them < 1293594285 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293594302 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having a char type is pretty lame imo but whatever < 1293594304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is correct. It is the REPL trying to be "helpful" < 1293594312 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heheh we should get quad to do a blog post on that < 1293594318 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is not helpful if you have some data which happens to be all in ASCII range < 1293594322 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if it does unicode, well, wow < 1293594329 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly everything prints as a string! < 1293594337 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's a more valid complaint than having to write a tiny type signature :-P < 1293594338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I'm not sure what it does to random unicode. < 1293594339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1293594348 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe a HEURISTIC < 1293594355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((#\[) (let ((body (parse))) < 1293594355 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (cons body (parse)))) < 1293594358 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( this makes my code uglier < 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> [$ä]. < 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ä" < 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> [$¬]. < 1293594359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"¬" < 1293594361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELLL < 1293594364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a REPL problem really < 1293594364 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬ is latin-1 < 1293594369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh fair enough < 1293594375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> [$→]. < 1293594375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[8594] < 1293594378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1293594391 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a problem with the language not encoding rich enough information into values < 1293594418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, so the reply tries to be helpful. Also since erlang is dynamically typed there isn't that much point in adding a char type. < 1293594445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give me memory, or give me death!" < 1293594452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1293594453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, r5rs doesn't even have command line argument facilities < 1293594456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, THAT looks serious < 1293594464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I bet r6rs has < 1293594477 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah it also has an aborted fetus sitting on top of a throne pooping on people who like the language too much < 1293594483 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really, but R6RS is of comparable horribleness) < 1293594486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293594492 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: i am sleepy < 1293594505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: it's a problem with the language not encoding rich enough information into values <-- possibly, but dynamically strongly typed sounds... weird < 1293594518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following top-level program obtains the first argument from the command line via the command-line procedure from the (rnrs programs (6)) library (see library chapter on “Command-line access and exit values”). It then opens the file using open-file-input-port (see library section on “)”, yielding a port, i.e. a connection to the file as a data source, and calls the get-bytes-all procedure t < 1293594518 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o obtain the contents of the file as binary data. It then uses put-bytes to output the contents of the file to standard output: < 1293594519 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1293594591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://damienkatz.net/2008/03/what_sucks_abou.html <-- unidiomatic use of if. It is not like if of something like C < 1293594592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :group theory is so fucking complicated < 1293594610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you need to handle all variants < 1293594618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is by design < 1293594658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is the wrong way to do it in those examples < 1293594661 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: damien katz wrote couchdb FWIW. < 1293594668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, huh < 1293594672 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so I _think_ he probably knows that ;) < 1293594681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, the first if example: should be case < 1293594694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one: function with two entry clauses < 1293594768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Erlang string operations are just not as simple or easy as most languages with integrated string types." <-- actually they work fairly well in my experience < 1293594795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders falling in love with Erlang < 1293594824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, also he criticises it for single assignment. I rest my case on this point. < 1293594857 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it looks like a bit of a rant. considering he created and maintains a _very_ popular, complex Erlang system. < 1293594874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the memory thing is possibly a valid thing, assuming he's telling the truth < 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"case should_foo(X) of < 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true -> foo(); < 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false -> ok < 1293594881 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end" < 1293594883 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that is stupid. < 1293594909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well yes, but what would haskell do? < 1293594920 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if should_foo x then foo else ok < 1293594920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Erlang isn't pure, Haskell is < 1293594929 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-assignment is stupid in an impure language < 1293594929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you could use if for it yes < 1293594952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Update: On OS X with the most recent Erlang VM (R12B-1, emulator version 5.6.1), I can no longer reproduce this problem. Yay!" < 1293594952 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1293594960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, erlang is pure if you stay away from IO and ETS basically (okay process dict too) < 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar() -> < 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if < 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should_foo(X) -> % compile error on this line! < 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo(); < 1293594960 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : true -> ok < 1293594961 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end. < 1293594963 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever. < 1293594967 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from the article < 1293594969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, awesome < 1293594981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if should_foo x then foo else ok <-- that's haskell for it? < 1293594986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is about as bad < 1293594990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1293594992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar < 1293594994 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't mention True and False for no reason. < 1293595005 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway Erlang should at /least/ have realif < 1293595006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, fair enough < 1293595010 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its "if" statement is so useless :p < 1293595019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, realif? < 1293595033 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real if < 1293595038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would agree that records have annoying syntax however < 1293595038 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that accepts _any_ condition < 1293595046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it does < 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar() -> < 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if < 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should_foo(X) -> % compile error on this line! < 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo(); < 1293595052 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : true -> ok < 1293595052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you can add any number of clauses? < 1293595053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, where can user-derived functions be used in tests? < 1293595053 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end. < 1293595055 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever. < 1293595059 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not. < 1293595061 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar() -> < 1293595063 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if < 1293595065 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should_foo(X) -> % compile error on this line! < 1293595067 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo(); < 1293595069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes that is an issue < 1293595069 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : true -> ok < 1293595071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end. < 1293595071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, a large issue < 1293595073 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This limitation is due to Erlang's "when clause" pattern matching engine, which needs certain guarantees from the expressions for static optimization. Erlang allows a subset of the built-in functions (BIFs) in conditional expressions, but no user defined functions can be called whatsoever. < 1293595077 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^ < 1293595077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that iirc is working on being fixed < 1293595079 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not real if. < 1293595080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, already partly fixed < 1293595083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, right < 1293595086 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice language revision. < 1293595092 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it meant to be stable? < 1293595103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it won't break anything existing to add this < 1293595104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, do large Erlang programs do currently? < 1293595114 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has a knack of asking terrible questions < 1293595116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it will let more code compile, it won't let less code compile < 1293595118 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knack for < 1293595129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes I'm trying to figure out what the hell he meant < 1293595142 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think he means to combat the IMPOSSIBLE PROBLEM OF "IF". < 1293595149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293595158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never found it a problem in practise < 1293595182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Update: On OS X with the most recent Erlang VM (R12B-1, emulator version 5.6.1), I can no longer reproduce this problem. Yay!" right this is old < 1293595187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R12B-1 ? < 1293595188 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/wumpus/src/wumpus.erl THIS IS THE MOST ENTERPRISEY WUMPUS GAME EVER. < 1293595189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very old < 1293595194 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the post was posted 2008. < 1293595195 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see. < 1293595200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, even then it was somewhat old < 1293595210 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it was the most recent. < 1293595212 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1293595213 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he says. < 1293595217 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not want to live in a world where 2008 is somewhat old, incidentally. < 1293595217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, erlang got unicode after R12B. It has lots of new stuff since then < 1293595224 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://catseye.tc/projects/wumpus/src/wumpus.erl THIS IS THE MOST ENTERPRISEY WUMPUS GAME EVER. < 1293595229 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold the enterprisey < 1293595232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott_ does not want to live in a world where 2008 is somewhat old, incidentally. <-- eh? < 1293595238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wow < 1293595248 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think I don't like cpressey any more < 1293595253 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ... perverse < 1293595275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I wouldn't use a record when you have like 4 members < 1293595280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just use a tuple < 1293595288 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Should data structures ever have more than four members? < 1293595305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, sometimes that might be the best option < 1293595311 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Apart from boring enterprisey database stuff (like table of personal information).) < 1293595320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what about a bf compiler < 1293595332 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, that wumpus code has a nice antipattern: passing around a gigantic world state and returning new versions of it. < 1293595341 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really stupid because ... it's imperative, you just hide it behind a lot of mess. < 1293595351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, heh < 1293595363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no it doesn't < 1293595367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, digraph.... < 1293595373 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1293595373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digraph uses ETS < 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% The state of almost the entire game is encapsulated into one record, < 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% so it can more easily be passed between functions. < 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-record(game, < 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1293595378 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : map, % a digraph representing the cave system < 1293595379 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : location, % a vertex representing the player's current location < 1293595379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea why) < 1293595380 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arrows, % an integer representing the number of arrows left < 1293595382 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nasty % a list of hazard records representing the nasties < 1293595384 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}). < 1293595386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, digraph uses ETS! < 1293595393 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddap. < 1293595396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is impure < 1293595418 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parts of this program were derived from the Erlang example program bf.erl." < 1293595421 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's some example program. < 1293595448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that game records will look like this tuple: {game,,'strange$atom$whatever',42,[a,list,of,some,sort]} < 1293595452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record* < 1293595480 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1293595493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't remember what an ets table reference looks like < 1293595499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably /not/ < 1293595520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, could be an atom, could be something else < 1293595570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently made a variant of Wumpus game, some of the differences are: that you do not always know exactly where you are, that the game is scored, that there is a time limit, etc... < 1293595595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zzo edition of the world would be a strange place < 1293595606 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0mg cPR£ESSY!!!! http://catseye.tc/projects/openflax/openflax_core/doc/design/api.html itz 1nvalid < 1293595617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll stay away from Erlang < 1293595630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, erlang is decent. But it isn't perfect. < 1293595638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sums it up pretty well I think. < 1293595658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably wrong mime type < 1293595668 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah he needs to set it as text/html ... or de-xhtml everything :) < 1293595701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or add those quotes. works too < 1293595709 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not if it has other errors :P < 1293595724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well he could fix those as well < 1293595751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, probably easier than reconfiguring web server < 1293595758 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is part of the CGA Collection, which can be downloaded at: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip < 1293595758 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He already has an .htaccess of overrides. < 1293595768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh? < 1293595776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, apache is shit < 1293595778 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When pikhq bugged him into fixing the types. < 1293595786 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pretty sure he uses a shared host. < 1293595791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293595811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try the CGA Collection games? < 1293595820 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1293595861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 27 games. < 1293595878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay and? < 1293595935 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293595964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can try one or more of them. < 1293595976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, works under linux as is? < 1293595997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, they are all DOS programs. But maybe you can run them in a DOS emulator they should work. < 1293596006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, too lazy to even consider it < 1293596024 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what port is your irc server < 1293596027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, recompile them for Linux; although doing so probably requires modifying the programs) < 1293596031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Port 194 < 1293596057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I should specify it in my userpage?) < 1293596074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no one uses it, though it is allocated < 1293596089 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Incorrect! zzo38 uses it! < 1293596107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cthulhu :Summoning user to IRC < 1293596107 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* summon :Unable to SUMMON at this time < 1293596112 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is it meant to do. < 1293596155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You cannot summon too often. < 1293596158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, presumably SUMMON from original RFC < 1293596190 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I made it so after SUMMON is used, it sets a timer and you cannot summon anymore until the timer is expired) < 1293596203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the HELP SUMMON command for help, too. < 1293596249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only solution we've found is to create a parent watchdog process to monitor the VM and restart it if it crashes." <-- erlang includes this < 1293596269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the bug that it was killed too was fixed < 1293596370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How was SUMMON CTHULHU broken? < 1293596477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anything in Erlang using a GUI, like the debugger or process monitor, is hideous on Windows and pretty much unusable on OS X." <-- aka Tk. < 1293596494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(been fixed since in many cases) < 1293596577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still I can live with tk, some people can't( < 1293596577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No < 1293596581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VM /itself/ was failing < 1293596584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(/)/ < 1293596588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, on os x? < 1293596589 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /entire VM/ needed to be restarted < 1293596594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes I know < 1293596602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, thus the heart process < 1293596609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been fixed since < 1293596637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fixed since, but you made it sound like it was never the case < 1293596644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, no I didn't < 1293596653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The only solution we've found is to create a parent watchdog process to monitor the VM and restart it if it crashes." <-- erlang includes this and iirc the bug that it was killed too was fixed < 1293596663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how was this not clear < 1293596755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1293597414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293598102 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293598162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it. < 1293598211 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I broke it. < 1293598230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You did? Then *you* fix it this time. < 1293598239 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1293598420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it should automatically do FLUSH when doing PART or QUIT < 1293598898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest xkcd was meh < 1293598965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems Martin Pool's natural compare algorithm is no book or journal, how can I cite it in the bibliography, then? < 1293599223 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/ presumably < 1293599269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I looked at that URL, I can see no information about citations there. < 1293599280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Cite it as http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/. < 1293599285 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Martin Pool, Natural Order String Comparison; http://sourcefrog.net/projects/natsort/. < 1293599287 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever. < 1293599413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I did like that. < 1293599472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I made it slightly different to match the style of the citation for the random number algorithm. < 1293599566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the other one has a date it says "Marsaglia (July 2003)" should this one have a date too? < 1293599657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there no date? < 1293599835 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There is probably a date, but it doesn't mention one, so who knows. < 1293599974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just omit the date for now. < 1293600120 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293600291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyvJI2nch24 < 1293600674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Cryptography & Computer Security professor: " When you speak of me, speak well." < 1293601068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have located the location of the music box < 1293601145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293601295 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What's hot, chunky, and acts on a polygon? A: Dihedral soup. < 1293601304 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DihedralGroup.html < 1293601319 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Renteln and Dundes (2005) give the following (bad) mathematical joke about the dihedral group" < 1293601504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless someone tells me what's so bad about Racket other than not being Scheme-like enough when it was called PLT Scheme, I am going to try it < 1293601546 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the only bad thing about racket is the stupid name < 1293601594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, the only stupid names are ungoogleable < 1293601638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, factor newspeak j c < 1293601646 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293601771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard good things about Racket's module system < 1293601901 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1293603766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like Racket < 1293603777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although so far haven't seen anything that's Racket-specific < 1293603781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293603791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some stuff, but it's trivial and not too relevant to me liking it < 1293603855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/in 48 < 1293603865 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macro debugger is great < 1293603867 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try that out < 1293603893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm? < 1293604272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Racket's guide's length example isn't tail recursive < 1293604286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They know *shrug* < 1293604524 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1293604572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, hmm? < 1293604586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have an example afterwards making a tail-recursive version < 1293604587 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293604712 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293604874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at Racket's infix convention < 1293605060 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1293605193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The number categories integer, rational, real (always rational), and complex are defined in the usual way" < 1293605196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhhh < 1293605296 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a known diagonal c/2 fuse in GoL? < 1293605675 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it seems there is...a very simple one too < 1293605972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if (void) #t #f) < 1293605989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably install Racket at some point < 1293606097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the different types of hashes, tbh < 1293607050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (rational? (sin 1/2)) < 1293607050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#t < 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin 1/2) < 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.479425538604203 < 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (exact? (sin 1/2)) < 1293607051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#f < 1293607063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius! < 1293607073 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that sarcasm? < 1293607083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1293608306 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: WOW "This statement is out and out slander; it is frankly sick." < 1293608429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1293608807 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293609599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1293609600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1293609788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(struct dot (x y) #:mutable) < 1293609789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr < 1293609805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntactic forms are allowed to do that with keywords, but regular functions aren't? < 1293610844 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293611355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1293611363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I want to use alternate PLaneTs? < 1293612192 0 :a1234567890!~a12345678@61-225-134-248.dynamic.hinet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293612370 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293612380 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293612582 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no elliott-variant here today? < 1293612632 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I recently discovered that pretty much every clever idea I had about my kernel/user interface already exists in L4 < 1293612652 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this means I'll be making an L4 clone, because that'd be a bit boring < 1293612907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it something like 08:30am in elliott-land? I think he's usually here later in the day. < 1293613015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe more 09am, but still. < 1293613112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... but why log out of irc, he should just use it as a messaging service while away < 1293613654 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he switches off his computer < 1293613895 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's just absurd! < 1293615443 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293615567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS NO ABSURD AT ALL < 1293615709 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... 3G IMS (IP Multimedia System) is IPv6-only. < 1293615775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION o.Os at Racklog < 1293615828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Racket's goal is to consume all possible uses for any languages into itself. < 1293615847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a LaTeX substitute, a Prolog substitute < 1293615984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to comment on Factor's presentation stuff, but Racket has that too < 1293617077 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-149.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293617432 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293617551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an unusual side effect of a) being ill, and b) sleeping all day and waking all night < 1293617564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you end up picking an incredibly dark theme for your operating system < 1293617573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the 'a' key on my keyboard has become unreliable, which is really annoying < 1293617611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that's unrelated < 1293617982 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293617990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just got my first spam ever on my callforjudgement email account < 1293618005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is completely full of apparently deliberate typos < 1293618021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that they've embedded alphanumeric line noise in the middle of about half the words < 1293618033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you add spellcheck to the spam checking program? < 1293618060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a representative line, the spam is apparently from "Danial@kdelbhljaakgltdgkfleh.{SPF_D1}" < 1293618067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293618074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, I fear it would cause too many false positives < 1293618096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do spammers do that, exactly? < 1293618106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get round spam filters < 1293618116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use email a long time ago. So, I think any message with tabs in the subject line is probably spam message. < 1293618116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that they no longer care if anyone actually reads the spam < 1293618140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likely, it's subcontracted; someone pays someone else to make sure spam is delivered, that person holds up the letter of the agreement) < 1293618181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe that is how it works. < 1293618189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this theme really shows up what a) has a hardcoded foreground /and/ background, b) hardcodes exactly one of the two < 1293618194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white on white ftw < 1293618258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now days if someone tries to send me spam message they will probably get error due to unreachable SMTP server. < 1293618280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott for the logs: Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is completely obviously a finite state machine < 1293618287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all defined programs halt, thus only use a finite amount of memory < 1293618294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just run them to see how much they use < 1293618395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that if you do not care about errors, any valid Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php program can run in a normal brainfuck interpreter. < 1293618499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293618520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think elliott's trying to stop spambots editing the wiki by creating a legitimate page at every title they try to create < 1293618530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293618549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some services require my email address to register, so in that case I can start the SMTP server and then when the message is received, I can stop the SMTP server. If they try to send spam message to me later, they will be unable to connect to the SMTP server to send a message!! < 1293618572 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but what if the ywant to send you useful information about your account? < 1293618630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: They can't. I don't want them to. If I need to know something about my account I will log in and see what happened. < 1293618672 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1293618691 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is annoying my program is taking too long to compile < 1293618709 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be taking a massive effort to complie this single line of code < 1293618745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program is that? < 1293618773 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a definition that says given functions x -> a and x -> b we have x -> a*b < 1293618788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't written in (oklopol's) Clue, is it? < 1293618816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, there are two esolangs called Clue, it's about time the wiki had a disambiguation page, but I don't think they're both up yet) < 1293618829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293618940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to see natural sort algorithm (and the other algorithms)? See it at: http://sprunge.us/KiaC < 1293619112 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long have you worked on this code? < 1293619190 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293619476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how long, but I do remember I have started some time this month (I don't remember what day though). < 1293619670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293619931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I cannot find oklopol's Clue? < 1293619982 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293620206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it isn't on the wiki < 1293620209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was discussed in-channel a bit < 1293620224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you give a bunch of input/output pairs and the interp bruteforces the actual program < 1293620249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the interesting construction in the language is designing it so that that actually works in a plausible timeframe, and so that you always get the right program < 1293620257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is done by giving clues, thus the name of the language < 1293620394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it should be added into the wiki < 1293620475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293622125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1293622128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1293622760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the halting-problem always solvable of sub-Turing, if you have a Turing machine to solve it? < 1293622826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, if elliott joins and I'm not around, give him a clip on the ear from me. < 1293622830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What computational classes is halting problem always solvable for? < 1293622855 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: lots of languages where every program terminates - that's one class its' decidible for < 1293622860 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decidable* < 1293622867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He (or I assume it was he) left some TNT next to the door at Mt. Hoover. < 1293622873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The door with a pressure plate. < 1293622891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, the explosion didn't actually punch through the mountain. < 1293622959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think there should be sub-Turing languages for which the halting problem is undedicable but I couldn't think of one yet < 1293623030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's decidable for FSAs, isn't it? < 1293623140 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a language has finite memory you can solve the halting problem by checking if it enters the same state twice < 1293623179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corollary: the halting problem is decidable for C. < 1293623829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't figure out an answer to that but very interesting question I hope someone knows < 1293623883 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem like every language for which the halting problem is undecidable is turing equivalent though - I retract my guess from earler < 1293624056 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cheat the question (like having a language whose programs are mathematical propositions, if true they compute 1 if false they diverge -- so this language only computes the set {1} but it's halting problem is undecidable) but that's not a good answer < 1293624725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to program a halting problem into a string of Typographical Number Theory? < 1293624819 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293625315 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand "Typographical Number Theory? < 1293625318 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand "Typographical Number Theory" < 1293625331 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you take Peano Arithmetic and ... call it something else? < 1293625443 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The set of positive values of 2y^4x + y^3x^2 - 2y^2x^3 - y^5 - yx^4 + 2y for positive integer inputs are exactly the fibonacci numbers < 1293625481 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: using more complicated polynomials (higher degree and more than 20 variables) you can encode any turing machines in this way < 1293625546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1293625579 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah it's Hilberts 10th, solved by Matiyasevic and Robinson and others < 1293625589 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("solved" negatively) < 1293625591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1293626356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293626443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs at some code. < 1293626460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.com/2010/08/racket-vs-clojure.html < 1293626471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about Racket to comment on those criticisms < 1293626484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to populate Oolite with an ultra-rare type of ship; the probability seems to have been intended to be 0.02. < 1293626530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does so 30 times, so the probability of seeing it is nearly 0.5. < 1293627089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, one of the people on the Oolite board is from Hexham. I should tell elliott. < 1293627316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/steam.com < 1293627321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geniuses, the lot of them < 1293628062 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293628177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, zuh? < 1293628203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're acting as thought steam.com is trying to steal Steam passwords < 1293628405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1293630182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This episode of DS9 features: Braindead computer security, and medical pseudoscience < 1293630199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Humanoids only use a small portion of their brain" < 1293630951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate that statement. < 1293630971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so obviously false for so many reasons. < 1293631249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, if elliott joins and I'm not around, give him a clip on the ear from me. <-- sure, one paper clip pushed through the ear (I hope you planned to get earrings anyway!) < 1293631257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1293631350 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293631421 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-218.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293631647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1's treatment of this plot idea was better < 1293631773 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293632030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although SG-1 also pulls the same "We only use a small portion of our brains" bullshit < 1293632927 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293633185 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293633589 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1293634046 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293634148 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what plot idea? < 1293634173 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, with the ancients' learning machines < 1293634952 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293635119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1293635333 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293635815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What makes it /obviously/ false? < 1293635860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hi there. been on mc recently? < 1293635872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1293635877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, someone (we haven't found out how) was careless in the TNT room < 1293635888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw your messages about it earlier (yesterday?) < 1293635890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, me and ehird helped rebuild things. < 1293635900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a few days ago. Yesterday we were working on the cube < 1293635913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it was the day before < 1293635939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, took a few days to repair it, so I would say at least 4 days ago (point of discovery) < 1293635957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-12-27 04:56:04#esoteric: ( Vorpal) Deewiant, your wonders of the world looks blown up < 1293635968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293635971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1293635974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle of night < 1293635983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in "number of times I slept"-days < 1293635986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call that "early morning" already ;-) < 1293636003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, 3 sleep-times ago < 1293636012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or such < 1293636045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, we did not add back the TNT, and some signs in the cactus/reed/wheat section are missing (we didn't know how they were placed) < 1293636075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it blew out a large area. Even sand, gravel and clay on the opposite side < 1293636079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1293636105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually the outer wall behind clay was missing < 1293636109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how exactly the signs were placed either, it doesn't exactly matter whether it's precisely the same ;-P < 1293636149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I was at a Boxing Day party when it happened, so that gives you a clue as to the date. < 1293636167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no that was the day after iirc? < 1293636180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know you blamed me. < 1293636190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we /asked/ you if you had done it < 1293636218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, if you add TNT again that isn't behind glass and inside an obsidian room we will be rather disappointed (and also not help if it happens again) < 1293636252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you rebuild it so that there's space for obsidian on all sides? ;-) < 1293636266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, you need more than that < 1293636298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to put on display in a room like that without leaving at least some direction open for destruction < 1293636299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need some sort of zig-zag walkway to it. So the blast doesn't get through the "door" < 1293636307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite < 1293636313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually just a zigzag walk works < 1293636328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, a single TNT behind glass might be acceptable < 1293636330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but that already takes up more space so it's a different kind of room. < 1293636335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the pumpkin) < 1293636472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293636475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TNT is there again < 1293636491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1293636508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yesterday the server crashed. Some chunks were reverted then it seems. Including that chunk < 1293636528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1293636627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how fortunate. < 1293636628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293636637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO FORTUNATE < 1293636641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not really, since i had to re-empty a lava lake < 1293636647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also reverted < 1293636861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, come see the Cube! < 1293637081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps later < 1293637090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You also didn't answer my question < 1293637106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1293637113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes what obviously false? < 1293637122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the 10% thing. < 1293637151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for one thing, something like that would almost certainly be evolved out quickly. < 1293637186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, one of the reasons childbirth is more dangerous for humans than other animals is the much larger size of the baby's heade. < 1293637188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*head < 1293637203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have a selection pressure towards smaller brains right there. < 1293637226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1293637235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That issue wasn't obvious to me, though ;-) < 1293637718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293638621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust788.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293640144 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293640286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293640800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the forum rss points all the links to voxelperfect.net even if i subscribe from esolangs.org < 1293641471 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, weird, but surely not that bad? < 1293641501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you didn't notice the discussion that voxelperfect.net has expired? < 1293641511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has‽ < 1293641520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it in the topic but _someone_ has changed it again < 1293641528 0 :ehird!5b697dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293641544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what I'm not using. < 1293641551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TIME TRAVELLER FROM THE PAST < 1293641568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: deodorant? < 1293641569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I don't use this nick any more, do I...\ < 1293641572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1293641581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I will ignore that insult...THIS TIME. < 1293641586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1293641586 0 :elliott!5b697dd4@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293641586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1293641586 0 :elliott!5b697dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293641595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1293641627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, Sgeo's learning a new fucking language. < 1293641634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to put a damper on my day. < 1293641646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And liveblogging^WliveIRCing it too. < 1293641693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:59:32 (if (void) #t #f) < 1293641699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The result of that is undefined. < 1293641704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) is not standard Scheme anyway. < 1293641710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | turds at voxelperfect.net have expired | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293641712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, Racket might give a consistent value, but Racket has no standard.) < 1293641720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw esolangs.org isn't owned by Graue < 1293641724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I discovered yesterday < 1293641741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huh? < 1293641756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's huh < 1293641758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the domain itself < 1293641812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i noticed yesterday but somehow got the domains switched in my mind < 1293641830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i thought it was a different name because it had expired, or something < 1293641851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok who the heck _is_ alan dipert < 1293641873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: zis guy < 1293641877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled him, he's just a random dude. < 1293641879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of dudeness. < 1293641890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no apparent relation to our community except being strange (he has a fork of NCSA Mosaic on github) < 1293641903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ANSWER TO "WHAT AM I NOT USING?" IS MY LAPTOP, FRIENDS < 1293641922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, we're no longer hardware buddies. < 1293641951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:24:40 elliott for the logs: Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is completely obviously a finite state machine < 1293641964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you SURE < 1293641965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds disturbing given that that domain is about to expire soon as well < 1293641971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are programs that use N bytes of memory for all N < 1293641977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, because it was last renewed in 2009 < 1293641982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is Sgeo learning a language so bad? < 1293641984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we have no reason to suspect he doesn't feel like renewing it < 1293641993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope _someone_ knows him < 1293641995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because he thinks he's smarter than language designers and complains about stupid shit < 1293642003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well email the bastard :) < 1293642013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:40 also, I think elliott's trying to stop spambots editing the wiki by creating a legitimate page at every title they try to create < 1293642022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm trying to make it hard on the wiki sysops to protect talk pages < 1293642028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been a Discordian in another life < 1293642034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "stupid shit" is a bit ambiguous here. "Stupid things in the language" vs. "stupid complaints" < 1293642035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i already emailed graue, i'll wait for an answer < 1293642041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: latter < 1293642045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293642078 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what why < 1293642085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: why what < 1293642121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS, YOU ARE TOTALLY NOT TAKING MY ALL-CAPSED BAIT < 1293642179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:41:07 He (or I assume it was he) left some TNT next to the door at Mt. Hoover. 03:41:13 The door with a pressure plate. 03:41:31 Fortunately, the explosion didn't actually punch through the mountain. < 1293642181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1293642186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't know pressure plates activated TNT < 1293642194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TNT has been there for a day or two, t'was an accident; I was planning to remove it safely < 1293642257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:29 Hey, one of the people on the Oolite board is from Hexham. I should tell elliott. < 1293642263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Are they competent? :p < 1293642291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag spikes now < 1293642295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at ineiros  < 1293642309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been fine for hours < 1293642345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he won't stop skype just for MC so why bother mentioning it? < 1293642349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I should redownload Minecraft < 1293642356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, redownload? < 1293642373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes FINALLY SOMEONE TAKES MY BAIT. < 1293642376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, competent in which sense? < 1293642387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why *re*-download < 1293642397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Can e program? If not, can e form correctly-spelled and punctuated sentences that express coherent thoughts? < 1293642409 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he had about 3 posts. < 1293642410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'CUZ I DON'T HAVE IT ON MY SHINY NEW LAPTOP DUH < 1293642418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ how did it take you that long to fall into that trap < 1293642419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1293642419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, not much of a bait < 1293642425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SHUT UP < 1293642432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but first you must try out dwarf fortress < 1293642435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and report FPS < 1293642438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently in Apple Time, 31st means 29th < 1293642446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not complaining < 1293642451 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, he has 418 posts. < 1293642460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, not until I get an IRC client :-P < 1293642495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott waiting with baited breath < 1293642502 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1293642505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: die in a fire :} < 1293642511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have absolutely no idea about him other than that he is from Hexham and his punctuation and spelling are good < 1293642514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if iChat supports MSN now. < 1293642522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, going to run linux to it. Or will you live in the flash-hating vendor-lockin closed apple world (right, so that product is a normal laptop, but still) < 1293642523 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sorry, need to download Ubuntu. Stat! < 1293642525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE < 1293642530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how rude. < 1293642533 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, incidentally! < 1293642538 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are building the cube! < 1293642549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll put Linux on it sometime < 1293642552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ah, about how long will it take do you think? < 1293642554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: not without me I hope! < 1293642558 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which requires excavating an approximately 128x128x64 cuboid! < 1293642568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't work on the cube without me to supervise ;x < 1293642575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of you UNDERSTAND my ARCHITECTURE < 1293642584 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can we finally have a TNT kit? < 1293642597 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely we can drain without you? < 1293642599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is rather trivial for the shell actually :P < 1293642604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Okay fine. < 1293642611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue is the interior floors, which I leave to you < 1293642613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And explode too. < 1293642617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no expanding the glass wall! :p < 1293642621 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, TNT kit! ineiros, we beseech you! < 1293642634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME A TNT KIT I'M GOING TO BLOW UP EVERYTHING < 1293642646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE LIKE 6 STACKS OF EASILY-ACCESSIBLE TNT AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM < 1293642666 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE USED THEM ON MY FREAKING MOUNTAIN < 1293642670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the wrong method < 1293642676 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The stacks will be less available if I blow up the server. < 1293642677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are just making it /less/ likely < 1293642677 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're demoted to HHI janitor < 1293642690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I'LL BLOW UP YOUR FAMILY < 1293642695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1293642698 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you're promoted to landscape architect. < 1293642705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOUR DOG < 1293642712 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to get to your TNT needs today. < 1293642717 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your first job is to ment the < 1293642717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1293642717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is exactly the opposite of what you need to tell him < 1293642722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very convincing. < 1293642725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Worked, didn't it? < 1293642728 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mend the crater outside the door of the research facility. < 1293642730 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. :) < 1293642738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Poor Woof. < 1293642745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only wish he did not have to die. < 1293642746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, I think you didn't manage to make him change opinion from yesterday /yet/ < 1293642791 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you will be transmoted to builder, and your job will be to rebuild the mouth of the tunnel to the research facility. < 1293642794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh ... YouTube is one of the default sites in the top-sites-Safari-gallery thing ... but this thing doesn't ship with Flash. < 1293642798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, so... any idea how long this download might take? 10 minutes? half an hour? more? < 1293642810 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 seconds. < 1293642813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed clicking on videos says "lol no flash" < 1293642816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You are way impatient. < 1293642817 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shall then be demoted to joiner, and your job will be to fit a new door into the research facility. < 1293642818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ah < 1293642818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way so. < 1293642824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Can I be demoted to turd? < 1293642836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, just wondered if I should log off and do something else, or just wait a few minutes < 1293642844 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you've done all that. < 1293642847 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc question: can you "emote", like /me but with other people appearing to do the action? < 1293642862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: um, no. < 1293642865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sounds horrible. < 1293642893 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have something like (from ) at the end of it < 1293642991 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you make your own messages look like someone else's? < 1293643005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Mathnerd314 takes a bike (from elliott) < 1293643008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You monster. < 1293643013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is playing OpenTyrian < 1293643022 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: but with tags < 1293643023 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful < 1293643032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Get IRC, IM clients; install YouTube5; get Minecraft. < 1293643043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put up mandatory shrine to Steve Jobs. < 1293643043 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: prefix it, then. < 1293643045 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from elliott) * Mathnerd314 takes a bike < 1293643062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: new Mac? < 1293643067 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the iPhone has no backquote symbol, does it? < 1293643074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: (from elliott) * Mathnerd314 took / a $big (bicycle) / as he `shook < 1293643080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: This is an iPhone? < 1293643084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, it has no backtick indeed. < 1293643097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I have that command to output ` followed by something, in EgoBot. < 1293643100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the name. < 1293643101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Yes. < 1293643123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so there's a simple, foolproof way of securing WiFi networks against iPhones? < 1293643134 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo I think it was this... < 1293643135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: MacBook Air, 2.1 GHz, 4 GiB, 256 GiB SSD, 13" 1440x900. < 1293643139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Brilliant. < 1293643141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo I think it was this... < 1293643153 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was this... < 1293643164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Grmbl, in the MORNING, get me out of bed and sdjdiofgj < 1293643174 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd do it but half my family have iPhones now and they'd be nasty to me if I did so. < 1293643187 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blargh < 1293643197 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Airs are pointless but pretty < 1293643226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: correction -- they /used/ to be pointless. < 1293643236 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1293643238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they have respectable specifications, the fastest SSD of the macs, and they have actual fucking ports on the side. < 1293643242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since late 2010.) < 1293643254 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would change my mind if i had one :D < 1293643260 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you have this now? < 1293643271 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, the answer is: no, irc doesn't have that? < 1293643278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I said no right at the start. < 1293643293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Dunno. I think I'll give up all my material possessions. < 1293643320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do I download Minecraft or LimeChat first? OH THE DILEMMA < 1293643328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH THE DALAI LLAMA < 1293643364 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, did you actually ask for one? < 1293643372 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or go about purchasing one? < 1293643395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I would not own this today if not for a swift but damaging onset of temporary insanity. < 1293643416 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see it in a shop and become overwhelmed by lust? < 1293643454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No. Steve Jobs kidnapped me and did unspeakable things. < 1293643476 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sell the story to the Sun. < 1293643481 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll make MILLIONS < 1293643517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This trackpad is ridiculously huge. < 1293643526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *LAMA < 1293643527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't it include the buttons? < 1293643534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bigger than my palm. < 1293643537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The whole thing is a button. < 1293643539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Intentional. < 1293643553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a gigantic glass touchpad that presses down :-P < 1293643555 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you clearly have a tiny palm. < 1293643573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously in future the keyboard will be replaced by a GIGANTIC touchpad. < 1293643576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I do. < 1293643579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a rather tiny person. < 1293643598 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously malnutrition due to the Harrying of the North. < 1293643627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Indeed. < 1293643639 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am told that this is the reason I am taller than my entire extended family, although I am suspicious of this. < 1293643650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA WHEN I SWIPE WITH THREE FINGERS IT GOES BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS IN THE BROWSER I AM THE MASTER OF MY DOMAIN < 1293643695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The windows themselves contain some kind of unbreakable glass-like substance, probably glass." < 1293643728 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which windows? < 1293643741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Um, context is long and I've already closed the tab. < 1293643756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari thinks this web chat window is titled "Yahoo!". < 1293643759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why. < 1293643831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO IF I DRAG ANOTHER THING TO THE DOCK IT WILL SHRINK, BUT HOW CAN I VIOLATE STEVE JOBS' WISHES < 1293643840 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1293643871 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes and brain hurt < 1293643873 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, have you finished your landscape-architect-builder-joinerial duties? < 1293643877 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from playing tyrian < 1293643885 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol tyrian < 1293643904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: No. < 1293643906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demote me to rock. < 1293643922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, once you've moved your way down the rank! < 1293643924 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ranks < 1293643934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to Software Update. < 1293643935 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should invent a game < 1293643962 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ourselves and then introdouce a score table < 1293643985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1293643987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, any idea how long this second download might take? Roughly < 1293644035 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskel is there a difference between take 3 [1..20] or just [1..3] ---> since things are evaluated lazily? < 1293644144 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, no. < 1293644149 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't. < 1293644165 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 3 [1..] < 1293644179 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I mean - internally Haskel doesn't create the [1..20] list first < 1293644183 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] < 1293644191 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, that's what that example was for. < 1293644192 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the output is the same < 1293644202 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..] is an infinitely long list. < 1293644207 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops < 1293644210 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION missed the .. < 1293644218 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the discarded elements aren't calculated at all. < 1293644218 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that there wasn't an end < 1293644222 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool < 1293644226 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, thanks < 1293644371 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293644381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, LimeChat's defualt theme is beyond ugly. < 1293644382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*default < 1293644387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1293644387 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293644618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: there are programs that use N bytes of memory for all N <--- I mean, any given program is an FSM, just like a lang that asked you to declare memory use in advance would be < 1293644626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293644643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1293644644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293644678 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293644678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest12014 < 1293644694 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293644697 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ my name < 1293644726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest12014: I suspect you aren't identified, and got automatically kicked to a different nick as a result < 1293644728 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293644784 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest12014, if the owner of your nick chose "secure" you have 30 seconds to provide a password < 1293644792 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they chose immediate you have no time < 1293644798 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ns help < 1293644801 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1293644803 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set it like that. :) < 1293644807 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, he is the owner of his own nick. < 1293644809 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it's 30 seconds for me. < 1293644840 0 :Guest12014!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293644929 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz xs = [ if mod x 3 && mod x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if mod x 3 then "fizz" else if mod x 5 then "buzz" else x | x <- [1..] ] < 1293644935 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Char]' against inferred type `Bool' -> so I get < 1293644943 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why I can't mix strings and ints < 1293644948 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where did the bool come from ? < 1293644953 0 :dfj_!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293644965 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is elliott "temporarily unavailable"? < 1293644966 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick. < 1293645022 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfj_, /ns recover I think < 1293645030 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293645043 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"invalid command" so, no < 1293645062 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's RELEASE < 1293645064 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or release < 1293645068 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293645068 0 :dfj_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293645075 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.125.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293645077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works < 1293645078 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1293645082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1293645101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest77998 < 1293645104 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz xs = [ if mod x 3 && mod x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if mod x 3 then "fizz" else if mod x 5 then "buzz" else x | x <- [1..] ] < 1293645110 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\ < 1293645117 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not Guest77998 < 1293645128 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1293645145 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: erm mod doesn't return a boolean does it < 1293645156 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh righ < 1293645175 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1293645179 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i'd do something like < 1293645198 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nm < 1293645199 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divBy x y = mod x y == 0 < 1293645213 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I'd call that divides < 1293645214 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could say < 1293645221 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `divides` 3 < 1293645222 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1293645225 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to swap the arguments < 1293645227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1293645227 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293645232 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy < 1293645237 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo !echo hi < 1293645238 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1293645240 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1293645345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: case gcd x 15 of 15 -> "fizzbuzz" ; 3 -> "fizz" ; 5 -> "buzz ; 1 -> show x >:) < 1293645364 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh nice < 1293645364 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, for maximum Haskell credit, write divBy point-free. < 1293645375 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: for maximum haskell credit write EVERYTHING point free < 1293645376 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, point free ? < 1293645381 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you don't want to know. < 1293645384 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, lie < 1293645385 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you don't want to tell him. < 1293645394 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, explain < 1293645396 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1293645403 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Point free is where you write things using the function composition operator and other combinators, and don't name any arguments to the function. < 1293645428 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, in simple terms, a function f is defined point-free if it's "f =" rather than "f =". < 1293645441 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: @pl \x y -> mod x y == 0 < 1293645441 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: flip flip 0 . ((==) .) . mod < 1293645445 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: So you could say < 1293645451 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividesBy = flip flip 0 . ((==) .) . mod < 1293645452 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead. < 1293645471 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Point-free style often improves code concision and readability. But not in this case. < 1293645474 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that code may not be the best pl-ing of that. < 1293645475 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lambdabot is a bit stupid about it. < 1293645478 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1293645494 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's (==0) . mod n < 1293645500 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293645503 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1293645542 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> let divisbleBy (==0) . mod n < 1293645542 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:28: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1293645547 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you forg = < 1293645549 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forgot = < 1293645551 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops < 1293645553 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it'd be ((==0).) . mod. < 1293645606 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> let divisbleBy = ((==0).) . mod. < 1293645606 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:32: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1293645612 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (((==0).) . mod) 2 4 < 1293645614 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1293645624 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1293645638 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [1..] < 1293645640 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (((==0).) . mod) 4 2 < 1293645661 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True :-} < 1293645663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,1 < 1293645675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, !haskell is just GHCi. < 1293645677 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny DCC chat < 1293645678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1293645689 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I noticed < 1293645691 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah it DCC chats to give you what it flooded < 1293645720 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, I could use that to flood its connections - just keep on doing [1..] < 1293645722 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\ < 1293645725 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently Steve Jobs needs a picture of me, I swear to god that it wouldn't let me use the computer until I let it take a photo of me < 1293645738 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It's too slow for you to be able to flood it, my friend. < 1293645742 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: And the first line would still go to IRC. < 1293645748 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes it doesn't. But whatever. < 1293645763 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way < 1293645771 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\ntest" < 1293645780 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "\ntest" < 1293645782 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\ntest" < 1293645804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: actually !haskell is both ghci and ghc, it tries them in sequence. this is sometimes confusing when you get an error message (only the last one is given) < 1293645811 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\ntest" < 1293645811 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "QUOTE MSG NICKSERV DROP" < 1293645817 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-} < 1293645829 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway anyone who tried to hold up the bots just gets a ban :-P < 1293645832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1293645833 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293645842 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!echo hi" < 1293645849 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, could I try something this once? < 1293645850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: also EgoBot sometimes times out :( < 1293645858 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: sure. just don't do it all night :D < 1293645868 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, its afternoon - not night :-} < 1293645886 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, but it'll be night some day! < 1293645892 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's 18:04, so, about midday < 1293645900 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other bots on this channel? < 1293645906 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it's 13:00 in new york, maybe i'm on american time < 1293645907 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Me! < 1293645908 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me! < 1293645911 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, and also fungot < 1293645911 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: specs and examples of feather btw, that argument is fundamentally unscientific :) thanks < 1293645913 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Me! < 1293645913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me! Me! < 1293645915 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in befunge, as you probably know < 1293645919 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, my goal: create a poly command between EgoBot and HackEgo :-} < 1293645929 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the more attention-seeking of the two. < 1293645929 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: output, and with its own set of variables < 1293645932 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes them keep on looping < 1293645935 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: fungot filters other bots, BTW < 1293645935 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998: i know quitting high school was about creating a procedure from itself) with a generic object system relies on _static_ types. < 1293645942 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, do you think we haven't thought of that? < 1293645944 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1293645945 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !echo hi < 1293645946 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1293645955 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '!sh echo hi' < 1293645957 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi < 1293645975 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '`run happy'" < 1293645975 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1293645979 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293645979 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '`run happy'" < 1293645980 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1293645981 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo pays attention to EgoBot, though. < 1293645982 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293645982 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh - back to learn you a haskel < 1293645986 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '\`run happy'" < 1293645986 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo '`run happy' < 1293645992 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293646007 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "!sh echo '\`run happy'" < 1293646008 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo '`run happy' < 1293646011 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses < 1293646012 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293646017 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok EgoBot ignores HackEgo < 1293646046 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent about half an hour flying around in Oolite, only to realise that I hadn't actually picked up the passenger I was meant to be ferrying. < 1293646054 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: :-D < 1293646060 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Show (t -> [[Char]])) < 1293646061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: mutual bot quines is a tradition in this channel, so most bots eventually is set to ignore the others < 1293646062 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-\ < 1293646075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are < 1293646075 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, the worst part is that I've done this several times before. < 1293646118 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293646132 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, heh < 1293646178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you're probably missing a function argument, as that usually implies you are trying to print a function < 1293646185 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let fizzBuzz = [ if divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if divisbleBy x 3 then "fizz" else if divisbleBy x 5 then "buzz" else "#" | x <- [1..] ] < 1293646202 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh wait - I had an extra "xs" < 1293646207 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1293646231 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I don't get *any* fizzbuzz < 1293646233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show is the type class for stuff that is printed < 1293646246 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["#","#","fizz","#","buzz","fizz","#","#","fizz","buzz","#","fizz","#","#","fizzbuzz","#","#","fizz","#","buzz"] < 1293646301 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I lied < 1293646306 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION missed the 10th one < 1293646312 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an idiot < 1293646315 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*12 < 1293646319 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still an idiot < 1293646319 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: don't you mean "else show x"? :) < 1293646322 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the numbers in there < 1293646333 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, no - I wanted the "#" for now < 1293646336 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full fizzbuzz program: < 1293646344 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = mapM_ putStrLn [ if divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy x 5 then "fizzbuzz" else if divisbleBy x 3 then "fizz" else if divisbleBy x 5 then "buzz" else show x | x <- [1..] ] < 1293646350 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilable with ghc :-) < 1293646352 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i fucked up < 1293646357 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1293646361 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need divisibleBy obviously < 1293646385 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, I didn't know about show so using "#" stood in until I could figure out what i needed for int->string < 1293646390 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION redownloads Minecraft. ah sweet addiction... < 1293646392 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: right :-) < 1293646425 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding minecraft: I was told not to play it while I still plan on doing something productive with my life < 1293646444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested ifs are sort of bad style in haskell. although they may be awkward to avoid inside a list comprehension... < 1293646444 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I concur absolutely ... and now to get to work on this 128x128x128 glass cube lit by lava < 1293646457 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i decided not to pick on his style until he's more proficient >:) < 1293646465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1293646470 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when is the "haskellian" way to do things < 1293646480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: pattern guards < 1293646484 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, please pick on my style - I don't want to get into bad habbits < 1293646491 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles pattern guards < 1293646497 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: But you already have -- a life of imperative programming :-) < 1293646513 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest77998, nothing is wrong with imperative programming for certain types of tasks.... < 1293646534 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Yes there is. :-) (I am a bit of a zealot.) < 1293646544 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: But hey, I never denied that. < 1293646561 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Haskell lets you write as much imperative code as you want, that's what "IO" and the do statement is for. < 1293646573 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think all of a program should be imperative, which is what most languages make you do :-) < 1293646682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: if you just wanted to handle a single x you could use pattern guards as follows: fizzBuzz x | divisbleBy x 3 && divisbleBy x 5 = "fizzbuzz" | divisbleBy x 3 = "fizz" | divisbleBy x 5 = "buzz" | otherwise = show x < 1293646720 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that code looks clearer to me - but I'm not exactly sure of what it's doing < 1293646741 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it similar to a "switch" in that it looks for the first pattern that matches? < 1293646745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well one-line formatting doesn't exactly help < 1293646815 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:5: parse error on input `|' < 1293646817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the parts between | and following = are the guards. the first guard for a pattern which is True is selected < 1293646835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh and that's a function definition, so you need to put let in front in ghci < 1293646840 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1293646846 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1293646849 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1293646851 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps self < 1293647006 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is "otherwise" < 1293647016 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always returns True ? < 1293647046 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, otherwise is a keyword for the default if no pattern matches. < 1293647099 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskel cares about whitespace? < 1293647104 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzbuzz.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1293647106 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293647190 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://notepad.cc/vefina87 -> how could this be formatted nicely - but still be compilable under ghc ? < 1293647230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: otherwise = True, it's just defined for convenience to make pattern guards look nice :D < 1293647254 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there some way to print out what functions are defined as ? < 1293647276 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes, Haskell cares about whitespace < 1293647282 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you can always use explicit bracing instead though < 1293647284 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1293647294 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do foo < 1293647296 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar < 1293647296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i see nothing in that paste that should be a syntax error < 1293647297 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the same as < 1293647301 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do { foo; bar } < 1293647334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| actually doesn't need to be lined up, although it looks better if it is. < 1293647351 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, fizzbuzz.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1293647360 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try a nother new line before "fb x"? < 1293647363 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*another < 1293647364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh, you have a missing ) in the first line < 1293647369 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't do anything, but, it's a hunch- aaah < 1293647370 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1293647372 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said < 1293647372 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1293647373 0 :Guest77998!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293647397 0 :sdfjsdf!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293647404 0 :sdfjsdf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293647410 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293647410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equivalently, an ( more than necessary < 1293647416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try < 1293647423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy = ((==0) .) mod < 1293647424 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I got it < 1293647424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1293647428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisibleBy = ((==0) .) . mod < 1293647429 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I need to define main :-} < 1293647441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1293647458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: careful -- that's MONAD TERRITORY! (note: this is completely irrelevant and you don't need to think about it at all to use main) < 1293647483 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad ? < 1293647498 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, explain < 1293647507 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, that is a whole can of worms you do not want to get into right now. < 1293647518 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1293647520 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a good grasp of the basics, particularly the type system, first. < 1293647522 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293647522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: It's a thing from category theory. LYAH explains it in some chapters' times. < 1293647523 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo! < 1293647525 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do that! < 1293647534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Seriously, no, people are scared of monads for no reason. < 1293647540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think it makes Haskell impossible to use. < 1293647544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're silly. :p < 1293647560 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get endless analogies of how monads = burritos which are far more confusing than the simple definition! < 1293647569 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, elliott I really don't like to delay learning new things - but I'll go in order of LYAH < 1293647606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: You can't learn all of Haskell at once, trust me :) < 1293647658 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: how could fb be written point freE? < 1293647675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, don't bother. < 1293647676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: oh man, i don't even know < 1293647677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobod < 1293647678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1293647680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would do that :) < 1293647687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ouch, it is rather hard to use pointfree and pattern guards simultaneously < 1293647706 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point-free is nice and elegant when you have simple functions which simply chain other functions togetheer. < 1293647710 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*together < 1293647710 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, alright < 1293647715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: pointfree is best for things that follow a pipelined path without branching < 1293647719 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = [ fb x | x <- [ 1..20] ] -> what's wrong with this? < 1293647729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: main would result in a list < 1293647732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to result in an IO action < 1293647739 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, type signatures don't match. < 1293647744 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fb x :: [Int] < 1293647744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: main mus... right < 1293647748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: try this < 1293647749 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO () < 1293647752 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1293647757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: just put a print after the = < 1293647761 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so - I tried "show" - but that didn't wor < 1293647761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293647769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: show :: (Show a) => a -> String < 1293647770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: but print is < 1293647775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print :: (Show a) => a -> IO () < 1293647778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main is :: IO () < 1293647780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as: < 1293647784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO action giving no result < 1293647787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also < 1293647791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getChar :: IO Char < 1293647792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as: < 1293647795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO action giving a character < 1293647797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: see? :) < 1293647800 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there some way to get ghci to print those declarations out? < 1293647808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it is technically legal for main to be any IO a < 1293647809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: :t foo < 1293647811 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie - can I print what a function is defined at as? < 1293647813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives the type of foo < 1293647818 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh - cool < 1293647831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the a will nearly always be () in practice < 1293647833 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = print [ fb x | x <- [ 1..20] ] -> perfect < 1293647855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i don't think ghci saves the source anywhere < 1293647858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that'll show as < 1293647862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["foo","..."] < 1293647864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you might want < 1293647866 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean - if I defined "blah" 1000 lines up there is no way to view the source < 1293647868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's directly compiled < 1293647873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = mapM_ putStrLn [fb x | x <- [1..20]] < 1293647894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: nah, i don't think that's stored :) < 1293647899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put good stuff in a file < 1293647905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: usually you want to do most definitions in a file with an editor, and just reload it after major changes < 1293647914 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I do that - just curious < 1293647925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you can only define types in a file too < 1293647937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: also reloading a file into ghci wipes out everything else < 1293647946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1293647954 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/ecJmXtWw --> my first haskel program ;-} < 1293647982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: now try putting < 1293647986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fb :: Int -> String < 1293647989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before fb :p < 1293648020 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that defines the type of fb to only take an int and return a string < 1293648045 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisbleBy :: Int -> Int as well ? < 1293648084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no < 1293648092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it results in a boolean :) < 1293648099 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1293648108 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION made the inverse mistake before < 1293648128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and capital letters indicate types < 1293648132 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be Boolean ? < 1293648212 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it works with the one for fb but not the one for divisibleBy - with Bool as the type (:t True) < 1293648218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: actually capital letters also indicate other things, but type names are one of them < 1293648258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, Bool isn't the type < 1293648261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: common hint: use :t fb to find out what ghci thinks the type should be < 1293648263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means divisibleBy would either be True or False < 1293648266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it's Int -> Bool < 1293648274 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that < 1293648275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that'll show Num which is just confusing right now :) < 1293648279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: huh. what error? < 1293648280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1293648306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway shouldn't it be Int -> Int -> Bool < 1293648319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293648320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course :) < 1293648322 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes < 1293648329 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the "Inferred Type" < 1293648341 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "couldn't match" part of the problem < 1293648342 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1293648392 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a preferred order for things: should I do type A, type B, function A function B, main or type A function A type B function B < 1293648404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: latter < 1293648416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: types should be right next to the functions; they're very useful documentation :) < 1293648420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine-checked documentation at that < 1293648434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the name and type of a function you can usually work out 90% of what it does quickly < 1293648453 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep ---> this has been my preferred style for a while < 1293648469 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine checked documentation :-} < 1293648518 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1293648524 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that twas fun < 1293648532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, you're approaching Coq again < 1293648545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our machine-checked documentation is HUNDREDS OF LINES LONG PROOFS OF CORRECTNESS! < 1293648681 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get the distinct feeling that I'd liike Coq :-} < 1293648707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: unfortunately it is not very useful for actually writing programs :-) < 1293648720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: although there are one or two libraries that were extracted (automatically) from formally-proved Coq code < 1293648726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell libraries that is < 1293648861 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between head and fst? lists and tuples ? < 1293648912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yep < 1293648926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that fst only works on 2-tuples, even though there's 3, 4, 5 etc. -tuples < 1293648934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay though because nobody uses >=3-tuples :) < 1293648952 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let rightTriangles = [ (a,b,c) | c <- [1..10], b <- [1..c], a <- [1..b], a^2 + b^2 == c^2] -----> they should teach this in math class instead of making kids memorize < 1293648967 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-} < 1293648978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you memorized that? < 1293648988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall memorising that :-) < 1293648997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication tables on the other hand ... < 1293648997 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no - we had to memorize the Pythagorean triples < 1293649002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1293649006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: sucks to be you :D < 1293649045 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I personally think that math classes should be more programming and less computation - but meh < 1293649048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: in that case you should at least have learned the _real_ formula for listing them all (note: i don't remember that either) < 1293649079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well "maths" should be renamed to arithmetic and then be all but abolished :-) < 1293649096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm not altogether, you know what i mean < 1293649190 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293649285 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, so wait, which country are you in? < 1293649294 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, USA < 1293649303 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figures. < 1293649304 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our education system is junk < 1293649318 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, where are you? < 1293649337 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland. < 1293649366 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly good here, although I'm informed that it's better than in England at final-year-of-school level. < 1293649543 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*) :: (Num a) => a -> a -> a < 1293649547 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it not Int -> Int ? < 1293649561 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait - because it takes two ints < 1293649565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yes < 1293649566 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, ah, you are introduced to the wonderful world of typeclasses. < 1293649569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: no, not that < 1293649574 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1293649574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the two-argument thing here i think < 1293649579 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I get typeclasses already < 1293649581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: yeah, takes two ints, returns one int :) < 1293649592 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer it was something like Int,Int -> Int < 1293649592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: btw a -> a -> a is the same as a -> (a -> a) < 1293649596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f x y is the same as (f x) y < 1293649596 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its ambigious < 1293649602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: that's why it's not Int,Int -> Int < 1293649604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: because you can say < 1293649605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = f x < 1293649608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then foo y == f x y < 1293649616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: this is _very_ powerful & useful < 1293649616 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, or, if you're adventurous, it takes an int and returns a function that takes an int and returns an int. < 1293649635 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, ah - that makes sense < 1293649648 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to my dividesBy function < 1293649655 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identical. < 1293649656 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Edinburgh? < 1293649663 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, mhm. < 1293649673 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This all Just Makes Sense < 1293649675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, the (==0) bit is just that in a disguise. < 1293649678 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: and you study computer science on university of edi ? < 1293649683 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-218.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293649686 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, yeah - I figured < 1293649686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's in high school :P < 1293649686 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, no, but go on. < 1293649692 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293649698 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nothing < 1293649698 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? < 1293649701 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes I did this in High School :-\ < 1293649709 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm close enough though < 1293649713 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-} < 1293649721 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe you're studying cs with a friend of mine < 1293649726 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be awesome < 1293649729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: mwahaha, i'm three years ahead of you ... well actually i learned haskell a year or two ago so a bit more < 1293649742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WASTED CHILDHOOD < 1293649746 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ahead = your a senior ? < 1293649753 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your in HS ? < 1293649754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ahead in learning < 1293649754 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahhahahaha < 1293649755 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajhahahha < 1293649756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1293649757 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1293649760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell, at least < 1293649761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293649766 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how old are you < 1293649771 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, I think he's in school now. < 1293649771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: 15 < 1293649778 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah - I'm 19 < 1293649787 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He used to be in a loony bin, but they let him out for not being very crazy. < 1293649787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: not sure how I'm meant to parse that sentence < 1293649792 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates IRC < 1293649793 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing C++ then ;-\ < 1293649797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of this version of history < 1293649800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: why? < 1293649813 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, you poor baby! < 1293649814 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looney bin xD < 1293649824 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not enough structure < 1293649835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i don't want to tag every message i write < 1293649839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeform is nice < 1293649841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more flexible < 1293649853 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you can't even when you want too < 1293649860 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I still yearn for that LaTeX-rendering plugin. < 1293649860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i never want to < 1293649871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: p. sure it exists < 1293649879 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thus why you irc and I hate it < 1293649896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well don't complain about irc on irc, you'll find little support :P < 1293649917 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm hoping for something backwards-compatible < 1293650108 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other problems: you can't correct or annotate < 1293650123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1293650133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want mesags to change underneath me < 1293650134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*messages < 1293650136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that is much nicer < 1293650149 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so I'm assuming you approve of Learn You a Haskell? < 1293650158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yes. < 1293650314 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293650328 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped reading it for reasons unclear to me now, which is a pity since I missed out on all of the stuff on functors and monads and stuff. < 1293650384 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, you can correct, but it isn't structured; I can't tell what you were correcting < 1293650399 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if < 1293650406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yes you can, because you (probably) possess a brain < 1293650494 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: computers were invented so I could choose what to use my brain on < 1293650509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you chose complaining about IRC < 1293650530 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm asking for a way to stop using my brain for trivial things on irc < 1293650572 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1293650594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, no, not with the ancient's learning machines < 1293650619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can even _notice_ the tiny percent of your brain power it takes to figure out what message it's correcting, well ... maybe you don't have much brain power to go around < 1293650658 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ignoring half a day's conversation and going on with what he was talking about before. < 1293650704 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I notice the accumulation. it's a reflex against falling into ruts < 1293650715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stupid reflex. < 1293650804 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not at all. how else do you notice that your life sucks? < 1293650830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: your life sucks because you're figuring out what messages correct which other messages on IRC? < 1293650851 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wait, then when? < 1293650859 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly. so I want a program to do it for me, backwards-compatible with irc. < 1293650977 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap. < 1293650991 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a wiki of stuff that was too stupid for Uncyclopedia. < 1293650992 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1293650994 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what < 1293651022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: So ... uh ... < 1293651025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I can't think. < 1293651026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wht < 1293651028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it contain? < 1293651037 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm going in. < 1293651055 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't come back, fix that damn crater on Mt. Hoover, then make it into a memorial. < 1293651064 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: give a link first < 1293651073 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: also, agree with me < 1293651085 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1293651096 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to a random page. < 1293651102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I saw Illogicopedia before too < 1293651121 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Mr._Bean < 1293651125 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...my brain. < 1293651145 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even hurting, it's just exactly the wrong shape for conscious thought. < 1293651150 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be an SCP. < 1293651184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Flub_Nugget < 1293651242 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just... if Cthulhu's diary was translated into English, I suspect you'd get this. < 1293651254 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do you agree with me yet? < 1293651258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: nope. < 1293651261 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, please shut up. < 1293651296 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: that's new! why should I shut up? < 1293651306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it should be an SCP. < 1293651324 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, because you are being intensely irritating. Stop it or shut up. < 1293651401 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: so why am I irritating? < 1293651430 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you work XChat's /ignore? < 1293651442 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore is cheating < 1293651448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: /ignore nick!*@* all < 1293651457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick* if you want to catch foo_ as well as foo < 1293651459 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a reason and I'd shut up right away < 1293651467 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1293651484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you just did. < 1293651486 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, let's discuss something worthwhile. < 1293651530 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1293651748 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Why is Applicative dependent on Functor? < 1293651770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: because they're applicative functors < 1293651794 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely fmap f = (pure f <*>) < 1293651832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a < 1293651840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Applicative f) => Functor f < 1293651845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's all overlapping < 1293651849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is the best way < 1293651856 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would find it fun if Mr. Bean turned out to be god < 1293651891 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in some twisted, fucked-up world the deity turned out to have demented so far. he's still all-powerful, just barely ever uses those powers because he pretty much forgot about them. < 1293651894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this machine is called Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air. Worst hostname ever? < 1293651894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, overlapping? < 1293651900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yes < 1293651906 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain < 1293651908 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1293651919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bash: git: command not found < 1293651925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: too lazy, google overlapping instances < 1293651955 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. You'd do (Functor f) (Applicative f) or something? < 1293652006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: eh? < 1293652021 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe I should look it up. < 1293652350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: haskell doesn't support using the methods of a subclass to define the methods of a superclass implicitly. there have been extensions suggested to allow this. < 1293652374 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so just don't make Applicative a subclass of Functor? < 1293652387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: but every Applicative _should_ be a Functor < 1293652407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not for hysterical raisins, every Monad should have been an Applicative < 1293652419 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, so have instance (Applicative f) (Functor f) or whatever. < 1293652430 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where fmap f = (pure f <*>) < 1293652438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: and haskell does not support doing that, is what i'm saying < 1293652443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, why? < 1293652462 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I looked up overlapping definitions, but I just ended up confused. < 1293652469 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/definitions/instances/ < 1293652507 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, food. < 1293652641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: the algorithm ghc uses to look up whether a type belongs to a class does not look at other typeclasses it belongs to until _after_ deciding which instance to use, so class Applicative a => Functor a ... would be used for _every_ type a during the lookup phase. < 1293652671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you allow overlapping instances. < 1293652750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this restriction is in order to ensure that under normal circumstances, adding a new instance never changes the interpretation of already defined ones. < 1293652843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without giving a compiler error for overlapping) < 1293652943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also have something to do with keeping the typeclass resolution decidable < 1293652991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this has been complained about before, but the haskell gurus are ardent about keeping this "open world" property < 1293653377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1293653416 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about a compiler for a language typed pretty much like javascript < 1293653462 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd write type inference engine that would try to avoid any type hinting < 1293653481 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it can't guarantee correctness, right? < 1293653494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know...... there is big spider on my bed? < 1293653536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck! < 1293653559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big? < 1293653588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approx. 1 metre < 1293653621 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F < 1293653655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "F" is incorrect. The only choices are "A", "B", "C", "D". < 1293653667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is multiple choice question, isn't it?) < 1293653718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: type hinting? < 1293653722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean type signatures? < 1293653728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what do you mean re - guarantee correctness < 1293653806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the technical theorem goes something like "full type inference in the presence of subtyping is undecidable" < 1293653831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, but if nooga's ok with hindley-milner ... < 1293653852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well javascript has object orientation < 1293653882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but javascript also has dynamic typing < 1293653888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly nooga is straying slightly :) < 1293653894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw javascript has no inheritance < 1293653900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293653904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's prototype-based, which is even /more/ of a headache < 1293653912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, you can inherit things ... but you can also do hideous things too < 1293653928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and it's hard to distinguish types (prototype objects) from values (their clones) < 1293654056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, apple doesn't let you register as a developer without specifying a company/organisation < 1293654062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott from N/A corp here < 1293654076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Javascript is better program language than PHP in general (ignoring their common uses) < 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Apple platforms do you develop with? Select all that apply. < 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : iOS < 1293654115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mac OS X < 1293654117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Safari < 1293654121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how one "develops for Safari" < 1293654154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Hu Jintao is a much nicer politician than Stalin in general (ignoring their common policies) < 1293654172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which web technologies do you work with? Select all that apply. < 1293654172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C# CSS 3 HTML 5 Internet Plug-ins Java JavaScript/AJAX/Ruby/Rails Perl/PHP/Python Other < 1293654179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JavaScript/AJAX/Ruby/Rails" < 1293654183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear to god that is a single checkbox. < 1293654213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's an opinion in your message, but i can't find it < 1293654238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that comparing crap and horrible crap doesn't say much < 1293654251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i never thought of you as a guy with opinions :D < 1293654259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[By checking this box I confirm that I have read and agree to be bound by the Agreement above. I also confirm that I am of the legal age of majority in the jurisdiction in which I reside (at least 18 years of age in many countries).]] < 1293654264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap, being under 18 i can check this without consequence < 1293654271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no no it's not an opinion, it's a meta-opinion < 1293654288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes, but you just demonstrated anti-JS and anti-PHP sentiment :) < 1293654289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never m *hit by time-traveling anvil* < 1293654302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't quite work that way < 1293654306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw wouldn't mao have been more obvious < 1293654321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i considered it < 1293654321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: shh! I'm relying on being considered too stupid to have understood what I'm doing < 1293654330 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1293654375 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js is quite good < 1293654386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js is good apart from 90% of it which is horrible < 1293654389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 10% is Scheme < 1293654393 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293654397 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this 10% < 1293654403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yes, unfortunately it's useless < 1293654409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the object model and the DOM exist outside it < 1293654413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainwave! < 1293654415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but look at the design of jQuery! < 1293654416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also the syntax is sub-optimal for a Scheme. < 1293654455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamit CBC < 1293654457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm using a system COMPILED ENTIRELY WITH CLANG APART FROM THE KERNEL < 1293654460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using the word 'troll' right < 1293654460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading f'n edge < 1293654461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing < 1293654466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1293654467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice < 1293654468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293654475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 'troll' as in fishing < 1293654475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, they call it OS X :trollface: < 1293654480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Problem? < 1293654487 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1293654498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The site trolls for information" < 1293654501 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put elliott on /b/ < 1293654505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what xD < 1293654517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is correct usage of the word < 1293654518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm an innocent flower who has never seen /b/ before. < 1293654520 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch trolls being trolled < 1293654521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you better believe it < 1293654523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know < 1293654524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but lol < 1293654536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is so believable < 1293654556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 hours until xcode downloads < 1293654559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might plug into ethernet < 1293654568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how he gets close to you and *stabs* you < 1293654576 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe that there are some highly intelligent /b/tards out there that make idiots of themselves on /b/ just for pure fun < 1293654593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true < 1293654622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that's all of them. < 1293654631 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1293654638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. ok. it used to be all of them :) < 1293654647 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used... < 1293654673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: in the past. < 1293654765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it's going faster now < 1293655439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.cafe/84865 < 1293655458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap somehow got desynced while building with torches near max alt. < 1293655488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it "works" but the are has random "garbage" < 1293655492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I blame Notch. < 1293655500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is it time for Peter Landin Facts? < 1293655510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1293655571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/essc7/ok_i_am_a_bit_freaked_out/ < 1293655588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch should make that kind of stuff generate naturally. < 1293655606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence of people being there before, occasional hidden deposits of useful things... man-made objects... < 1293655671 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1293655694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite, might want it as an option though to avoid pissing of users who want to feel that they are the first to walk there < 1293655705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everything's an option :P < 1293655706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'm ok with either < 1293655756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/UGw2n.gif < 1293655761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit what limechat < 1293655766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you inlining images < 1293655769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad limechat < 1293655771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that think you linked: maybe F4 "bug"? < 1293655772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody link to goatse < 1293655776 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is an awesome MC idea. < 1293655785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently, it's chunks from old worlds being loaded < 1293655792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except if he didn't build a nether portal ... well ... < 1293655795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows anyway < 1293655803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the image inlining < 1293655806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can all link to goatse now < 1293655807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember when pressing f4 gave you nether? < 1293655810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1293655820 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't. < 1293655823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe he did that by mistake, that is what I meant < 1293655831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doubt it. since the boats etc < 1293655833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote nobody link to goatse elliott, that is an awesome MC idea. < 1293655836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and minecarts and chests < 1293655841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay < 1293655852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then weird bug or a hoax? < 1293655853 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swatpans oerjan --==\#/ < 1293655902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1293655903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they didn't include XCode on the reinstall drive that comes with the Air. < 1293655903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the steps for roof thing is quite nice when you can use it < 1293655910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the tiniest USB drive I have /ever/ seen.) < 1293655928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By tiny I mean *TINY*: < 1293655928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.cnet.com/i/tim/2010/10/20/DSC_0072_610x438.JPG < 1293655929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it doesn't have the developer cd? < 1293655933 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293655933 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256) nobody link to goatse elliott, that is an awesome MC idea. < 1293655942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 256 < 1293655943 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256) nobody link to goatse elliott, that is an awesome MC idea. < 1293655943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The developer CD == the install DVD. Or maybe it still comes on 2, so the second DVD. < 1293655952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how thick is it drive? < 1293655953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, eh, you can download it for free. All 3 gigabytes of it. < 1293655961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's thinner than the USB port. < 1293655968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds... unreliable? < 1293655973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1293655978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit hard to push in though. < 1293655995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wouldn't dare push it < 1293656004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I had to wriggle it :-P < 1293656015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this thing is *crazy* thin. < 1293656024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly as high as a USB port ... in the highest place. < 1293656041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need a border around the port, or it wouldn't be a port < 1293656044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, there is an imperceptible bit of non-USB-port aluminium above and below the USB ports. But still.) < 1293656059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly sure it's actually powered by gnomes. < 1293656066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat, two-dimensional gnomes. < 1293656067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unibody design I presume? < 1293656071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1293656077 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[But that is nuts.]] — someone on that Reddit thread who clearly has no insight into the twisted mind of Notch. < 1293656089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the connections to other parts would make it 10x thicker :-P < 1293656102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually has screw holes to open up the bottom though. < 1293656112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be impossible to do anything but replace the battery. < 1293656125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SSD isn't soldered on (the RAM is though), but it's chips without any enclosure, slotted into the motherboard. < 1293656125 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was the nature of the madness that lead you to buy this laptop? < 1293656137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, soldered on ram? yeargh < 1293656137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think you can buy the chips separately. < 1293656158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, at least it was necessary in this case rather than being a "fuck you customers thing". < 1293656165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, necessary given the crazy design goals. < 1293656170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: God knows. < 1293656205 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please run me through the events that lead to it coming into your possession. < 1293656212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is the wifi good? < 1293656219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and does it have bluetooth? < 1293656228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Well, I haven't tried any LAN stuff yet, but the WiFi is very reliable so far. < 1293656230 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders doing an Oolite Let's Play. < 1293656231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Bluetooth. < 1293656243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293656273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, keyboard backlit? < 1293656277 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, new Minecraft Experiment update. < 1293656278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: What's this. Oh. That's thin. Too bad the specs are -- it has a decent processor? Better GPU? 4 gigs of RAM? ...High resolution display? No. No. I won't do it. I won't be tem- HOW thin? DAMN YOU, STEVE JOBS, YOU CRAZY MAN! I CANNOT RESIST! < 1293656287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. That is the one thing it does not have :P < 1293656294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The previous model did IIRC, presumably it took up TOO MUCH ROOM.) < 1293656302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about a lamp above it? < 1293656303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKFULLY I can touch type. < 1293656307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, above the screen < 1293656308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. I can touch type. < 1293656312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well. < 1293656317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You could use the camera-is-on LED :-P < 1293656322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just the light from the screen. < 1293656323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1293656336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* LED, so it runs the full gamut from black to lightbulb. < 1293656341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about flash reader? < 1293656350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it will do CF < 1293656356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many some of the smaller ones? < 1293656368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has an SD card reader, at least. I don't know if it's a fancy combo thing. < 1293656379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293656380 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cubeengine.com/ this + crafting system + procedural landscape + MMO server > minecraft < 1293656401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and how many USB ports was it? < 1293656405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: As a fan of Wouter (like everyone here!): shut up. < 1293656411 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouter? < 1293656418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouter? < 1293656419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Inventor of Aardappel, and also Saurbraten. < 1293656428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy with 3498573495349857393945 languages. < 1293656431 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cube engine is pure awesomness < 1293656432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also FALSE. < 1293656433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1293656439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A whole two USB ports. < 1293656439 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognise these things, but I know nothing about them. Except FALSE. < 1293656452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://strlen.com/aardappel-language < 1293656454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... how is cooling? < 1293656463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and did you try dwarf fortress? < 1293656466 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looking at it now. < 1293656486 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Dwarf Fortress is pretty boring, to be honest. < 1293656492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's cool enough that I'm using it on my lap with no discomfort at all, and it only got lukewarm when I played Minecraft on maximum settings. (But the fan made a bit of noise.) < 1293656497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried Dwarf Fortress yet. < 1293656511 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no obvious Linux version. < 1293656516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes there is. < 1293656529 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obvious.* < 1293656529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL: Windows | Mirror 1 | Mirror 2 | Mirror 3 | Windows (No Music) | Linux | Mac (Intel) < 1293656531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note "Linux". < 1293656539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the same line as the Windows download. < 1293656539 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE WASN'T WHEN I LOOKED < 1293656546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to play Dwarf Fortress once. I don't like the game, also there is many things I cannot figure out how to change (if it can be changed), and it is slow. In general, I do not like this game. < 1293656557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I technically don't remember that either :P < 1293656561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's slow because your computer is slow. < 1293656581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, Dwarf Fortress is pretty boring, to be honest. <-- that is not important here. The important bit is that it has high system requirements < 1293656613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yes, my computer is one of the things that makes it slow. < 1293656617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This thing is better than my iMac, let's put it that way. :p < 1293656640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you ran windows I would suggest crysis < 1293656648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I tried playing it, I was astounded at the world generation, then confused to hell by the interface once gameplay actually started, then bored to hell and driven off by the prospect of (gasp!) micromanagement. < 1293656658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crysis is only slow if you max the settings out, I gather :-P < 1293656681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I never tried it. < 1293656691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it amuses me that, four years after it was released, getting it to run at high FPS on maximum settings is still reserved for the absolute most expensive cards. < 1293656701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1293656719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play different game, such as the games I make you can watch. Or, please make up your own games (or game ideas)! < 1293656727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1293656739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: My game idea is to make a game that is Dwarf Fortress. < 1293656778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, crysis is mainly GPU heavy right? So combine crysis 3D engine with dwarf fortress < 1293656778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have to admit that swiping four fingers downwards to activate Expose makes me feel like a bit of an uncivilised savage. < 1293656787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I'm swatting something with my paw. < 1293656803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you write a FOSS game working like Dwarf Fortress and with improvements? < 1293656804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't they use to put that in F? < 1293656813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably not :-P < 1293656833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I suggested something like that, I would get a very different answer :P < 1293656846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They still do, but since over a third of the laptop's bottom is dedicated to a gigantic slab of clickable glass, I'm gonna use the shit out of it. < 1293656865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hope it doesn't break < 1293656878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, the glass? < 1293656890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like glassy glass, it's just glass-coated. :p < 1293656891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293656895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293656900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels like very smooth plastic, basically. < 1293656902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irc_log/ADMIN/1293597986 < 1293656914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about fingerprints < 1293656938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't see any. It's not like the iPhone's screen. < 1293656954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I don't have any idea what it's actually made of, I just know it's coated with glass. < 1293656973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice, though; most trackpads feel really small to me. < 1293656977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey theoretically one could make a game that would keep using more and more resources the more computing power you throw at it, until it successfully simulates a universe in perfect detail < 1293656989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed! get on it < 1293657013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically, i am < 1293657025 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the eigenratio of the universe is. < 1293657038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er howso :D < 1293657047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, some sort of fractal might be a good way to do it < 1293657059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a very dubious theory < 1293657062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Matter is already fractal. < 1293657069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. < 1293657073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter is made out of matter is made out of matter is made out of quarks is ... oh, wait, never mind. < 1293657086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fractal up to a point < 1293657086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is made out of tiny vibrating strings is made out of raw hate for Notch!) < 1293657089 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, matter is just a general term. < 1293657110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, yes, but the way I see oerjan's idea, you'd go from simulating entire macroscopic objects to breaking them down slightly, to doing atoms, < 1293657114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to simulating THE VERY FABRIC OF MATTER. < 1293657126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but considering something like a tree. They have a fractal nature. So level of detail comes more or less "naturally" there < 1293657129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually the virtual particle creation and destruction makes things fractal even at the elementary particle level, i believe. < 1293657142 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like Inductive matter := | | | . < 1293657144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well < 1293657147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) < 1293657148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face is fractal ugly < 1293657152 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how? < 1293657171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) < 1293657172 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :257) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) < 1293657225 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293657415 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293657432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: basically every elementary particle is surrounded by an infinite cloud of virtual ones, which only exist for tiny moments before being destroyed again. this causes the math to blow up and they have to use a trick called renormalization to calculate how the things we actually observe (which consist of "real" particle + "virtual" cloud) behave < 1293657439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you please try to play CGA Collection game, one of these games might be good game to you??? < 1293657453 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, still don't see the fractalness. < 1293657469 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no self-similarity, just loads of particles on the same scale. < 1293657489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: these virtual particles, for the moment they exist, have their own virtual cloud < 1293657503 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1293657531 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're still selecting from a finite range of particles with constant size. < 1293657546 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't zoom in on an electron and see lots of little electrons. < 1293657554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the particles themselves have size _zero_ in the theory < 1293657584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this theory widely-accepted? :P < 1293657589 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. < 1293657593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have mass, though. And mass is also energy. < 1293657598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right < 1293657602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the -- oh forget it < 1293657606 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of the accepted corpus of QM. < 1293657606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am terrible at explaining things < 1293657607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can have differing amounts of energy. in fact a virtual particle can have higher energy the shorter they live. (heisenberg uncertainty) < 1293657629 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which leads neatly onto my awesome generator idea. < 1293657648 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which converts mass directly to energy without any of that tedious mucking about with antimatter. < 1293657685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well mass is usually fixed for each particle type afaik. it's the extra which varies, i think. actually i'm not very sure about those details < 1293657702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the extra energy < 1293657711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: oh? < 1293657760 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Hawking generator? < 1293657770 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I explained it yesterday when you were here? < 1293657774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1293657777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't that involve antimatter? < 1293657808 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I applaud 3GPP for making IMS IPv6-only... :-) < 1293657819 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, hawking generator doesn't involve antimatter. < 1293657878 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. < 1293657894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right. < 1293657894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could use it to convert antimatter into energy as well. < 1293657900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: How is it *your* idea again? :-) < 1293657912 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing about black holes: Is baryon number property of black holes or do black holes violate conservation of baryon number? < 1293657923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: it _does_ remain to be seen if a radiating black hole really destroys all quantum numbers other than charge and rotation, as predicted. hm if not would that prevent the hole from disappearing? < 1293657954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : who cares, black holes don't exist anyway < 1293657954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mass, charge and rotation < 1293657956 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm? < 1293657959 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for lepton numbers (3 of them). < 1293657967 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please tell me cpressey doesn't really think that. < 1293657983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, he doesn't actively go around saying black holes don't exist but he isn't convinced of their existence. < 1293657993 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs. < 1293658006 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why... just, why? < 1293658021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, B-L... That being violated would be even bigger deal than baryon/lepton number violations... < 1293658033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Hey now, I distinctly recall some pop sci article saying SCIENTISTS were considering that they might not exist ;) < 1293658069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: if black holes preserve baryon number, say, then they would have to radiate matter rather than antimatter. and that would mean they couldn't radiate just mostly photons... someone's probably thought about this < 1293658091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd grep the logs for cpressey's opinions on black holes, but I'd need hg to check out Gregor's log repository, and to get hg I need Homebrew, and to use Homebrew I need XCode which is downloading. < 1293658102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: oh i didn't notice you asking the same question < 1293658104 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, ahhh. < 1293658113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the matter/antimatter distinction in hawking radiation doesn't matter anyway before they reach enough temperature to start radiating electrons... < 1293658115 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, awww. < 1293658121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ? < 1293658124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lawlfail < 1293658134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SHUT UP, IT HAS A GIGANTIC GLASS TRACKPAD. < 1293658142 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, getting the codu repository from hg. < 1293658158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Why did you go wait, ahhh. < 1293658180 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being able to reach 511keV thermally requires _quite_ high temperature. < 1293658188 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I've wanted that forever. < 1293658211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Don't post the link, Gregor's method of conserving bandwidth appears to be to not publicise it at all and let people find it themselves :P < 1293658225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it is just a one-time download of about 70 megs. < 1293658226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much :P < 1293658229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nearing 100 by now. < 1293658256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 minutes remaining for XCode ... < 1293658280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can tell Homebrew to use clang by default. < 1293658317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you could imagine that black holes would stop radiating at some point because they couldn't satisfy the necessary quantum numbers... < 1293658391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/H9nHB.png OUR GLASS HATS ARE ... WAIT FOR IT ... OLD-HAT < 1293658403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1293658404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/eUq9d.png < 1293658406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/eUq9d.png < 1293658414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE NEED A CACTUS KIT THIS _VERY SECOND_ < 1293658421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is this GENERAL? < 1293658434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :turds at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | turds at voxelperfect.net have expired | historical turds at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D or via hg at http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ < 1293658439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well ... I think it has to be a _block_. < 1293658439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN < 1293658444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That ... is really unwise :P < 1293658444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is anyone mirroring the actual wiki? this dns business is starting to make me nervous < 1293658446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also you forgot https. < 1293658447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1293658450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has it in hg. < 1293658456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1293658456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people have backups < 1293658473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Works via both http and https < 1293658475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Gregor would only host the wiki if he could make it Hackiki :D < 1293658480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BUT HOW CAN I SECURE MY TRANSMUTION < 1293658489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By putting an 's' on it :P < 1293658495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU ARE FASCIST < 1293658505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no no s is for socialist < 1293658526 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning the lack of 's' is for fascism. < 1293658527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: [[This works with any block on SMP. Not items though. I gave myself a lightstone head.]] < 1293658570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/stairs.png < 1293658576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/fence.png < 1293658583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/halfblock.png < 1293658596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6771672/minecraft/armorbug/portal.png APPARENTLY THIS IS ANIMATED OMG OMG OMG WANT < 1293658597 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OK, so what should I search for in the logs to see cpressey being nuts? < 1293658601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT A SWIRLY HEAD < 1293658612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Um, grep -i 'cpressey>.*black' < 1293658615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1293658620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ri 'cpressey>.*black' . < 1293658623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1293658627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i 'cpressey>.*black' 10* < 1293658651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://i.imgur.com/rNfZR.png < 1293658653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should make esolang wiki have both MediaWiki and Hackiki, and allow some limited interaction between them. < 1293658672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I put diamond ore on my head, many Lolz ensued" "Camp near where people are digging and hide your lower half, then when they try to mine the diamond the ore runs away :D" < 1293658709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: apparently you can get a torch stuck to your head < 1293658711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a lavaface < 1293658753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementaly, my dear elliott < 1293658760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: racist! < 1293658761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+l < 1293658775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its funny cuz of asians and r and l < 1293658784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i have nothing against fire elementals < 1293658804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, there? < 1293658863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suddenly envision people getting in trouble for collecting shoe laces ("Oh, I'm a lacist!") < 1293658881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1293658884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, if so: wrt that bug. What I did for cryptsetup-luks on ubuntu (which also uses device-mapper in the end, like lvm), was to set up disk using system rescue cd. Then I booted ubuntu live cd, mounted stuff, and installed on there < 1293658916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, and before I rebooted I made sure the initramfs had cryptsetup of course < 1293658977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL APOGEE SAY "AARDWOLF" < 1293658997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now envisions _chinese_ people getting in trouble for collecting shoe laces < 1293659123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a confession to make < 1293659127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am addicted to this magnetic power cord < 1293659128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1293659128 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https? no httpy? :-) < 1293659135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually snaps into the computer < 1293659137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hold it close enough < 1293659157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari_antrcomp: Httpy? You mean http://www.eros-os.org/pipermail/e-lang/2000-May/003341.html? :p < 1293659161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAWD I hate the magnetic power cord attachment. < 1293659169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only comes out when I don't want it to. < 1293659190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The point is that it always comes out rather than having your laptop fall off the table, dude :P < 1293659208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had this mystical laptop-falling-off-the-table experience. < 1293659208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the new ones are stupid iirc. Since the cable doesn't attach straight out < 1293659219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Define "attach straight out". < 1293659224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do have a never-ending sequence of plug-coming-out-of-laptop-for-no-reason. < 1293659231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You are not clumsy. I am clumsy. < 1293659252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's come out once or twice without me wanting it today :P < 1293659372 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I still used the family MacBook the power cord broke at the attachment. < 1293659390 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An entirely new cord was needed, at considerable expense. < 1293659425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, the one with the bad guy who enters minds < 1293659426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones < 1293659435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Was that a magsafe one or an older one? < 1293659443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, magsafe. < 1293659458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGNETS ARE EXPENSIVE < 1293659504 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not even high-end magnets. < 1293659504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: IIRC the original MagSafe was really badly designed. < 1293659516 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ea4d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293659516 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need to tell me tha. < 1293659518 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1293659529 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *melted* in the end. < 1293659579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yeah... Apple like to rush things. < 1293659594 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And overcharge for replacements. < 1293659613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: How much did the cord cost? < 1293659631 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£60 or so IIRC. < 1293659644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Niiiiiiiiiiice. < 1293659647 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a transformer, some wires and a magnet. < 1293659656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Well, Apple do like to sell AppleCare. :-P < 1293659667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AppleCare? No AppleDon't.) < 1293659669 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously don't understand people who think Apple gives you value for money. < 1293659745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the removal of mana burn in Magic: the Gathering cards < 1293659764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Apple computers are, in fact, well-priced; the components are high quality. It's just that most people don't really care how well-shaped their aluminium computer is. < 1293659770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacements are a complete ripoff, of course. < 1293659777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they do offer an easy to use alternative to Windows. Expensive, but still < 1293659794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: (For instance, the new iMacs are ridiculously cheap. Let's put it this way: The 27" models are as expensive as the _display they use_ would be by itself.) < 1293659796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IPS.) < 1293659814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculously cheap in relative terms of course ... they still cost a bundle. < 1293659884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's wrong with Racket? < 1293659910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely nothin' (well, some things, but not much). < 1293660013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293660035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP ais523 < 1293660050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that mana burn should've been kept, in general the game's been dumbed down too much IMO < 1293660101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the point either way? Are there a lot of things that cause there to be more than one mana put into the pool? < 1293660109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG. < 1293660109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293660111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany. < 1293660123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: We must make Dwarf Fortress: The Tabletop RPG. < 1293660128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All computation done by humans. < 1293660134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be THE WORST> < 1293660135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WORST. < 1293660151 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on that topic http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Random_number_generator < 1293660160 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A detailed explanation of Elite's RNG. < 1293660160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes I think that is correct. Mana burn should kept, and a lot of things have been made badly. < 1293660172 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And galaxy-production mechanisms. < 1293660182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think it has been dumbed down too much < 1293660194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I think they should've kept interrupts :-P < 1293660195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: "On that topic"? :P < 1293660206 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, procedural generation! < 1293660220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Installing this software requires 9.53 GB of space." < 1293660227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's in decimal gigabytes. But still. < 1293660231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I like how the stack works actually. But there are some rules I never liked, such as the rule that a Aura that is also a creature is destroyed. < 1293660256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just liked that interrupts could be played during damage prevention but instants couldn't < 1293660287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Is Oolite actually fun? < 1293660287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays you can block a creature, have it deal damage, and then return it to your hand with Boomerang for example; in the past I don't think you could < 1293660293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the blocker deal damage, I mean < 1293660299 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends. < 1293660301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't really like the way that planeswalkers rules work < 1293660304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: On? < 1293660329 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty boring slog at the start, but it gets better once you have the cash to pay for gadgets and blow things up. < 1293660330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the planeswalker thing is actually a complication so I'm kind of fine with that in terms of "dumbing things down", although mostly they seem overpowered to me < 1293660359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unnerving for disk activity to be happening with no audial indication. < 1293660405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written rules for a "playercard" which is somewhat similar to a planeswalker, but it acts as another player. It doesn't get turns normally, but some spells can give it extra turns if it is a card that can give players extra turns. < 1293660408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend a RAID-1 array of a few dozen 10000 RPM disks, it should help with that < 1293660437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I wonder if this thing is meant to get hot when installing software. < 1293660452 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OTOH, you can always hack your save files to give yourself 10000000 credits and then buy tonnes of stuff, then install some OXPs and go nuts. < 1293660453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playercards are not allowed to concede, their life total is equal to the number of their loyalty counters, and they are discarded if they win or lose the game (and the game continues). < 1293660460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on fan! You can do it! < 1293660465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM < 1293660489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOON I WILL BE INFERTILE < 1293660492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MUST HELP ME OUT, FAN < 1293660497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAVE MY CHILDREN < 1293660555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, it's gone into jet engine mode. < 1293660559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried. < 1293660643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Vorpal: Recommendation seen on /r/minecraft: -Xincgc. < 1293660648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incremental GC. < 1293660667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Oh, time for irony. < 1293660669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: [[Problem is, Notch said gold is intentionally useless — to quote him, "it's kind of a political statement". He was interested in the way gold is useless in the real world, but still has such a high value, and wanted to replicate that in Minecraft.]] < 1293660677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And yet diamond is the most useful ore in the game. < 1293660688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gold is certainly not useless in the real world < 1293660692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft -- sponsored by De BEers. < 1293660693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Beers. < 1293660694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can figure out what any of these things do in Magic: the Gathering cards : < 1293660702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A card with the type "Instant Land". < 1293660709 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, diamond is very useful IRL. < 1293660719 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As is gold, but not as obviously.) < 1293660726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A creature with "Phasing. When ~ comes into play, it becomes an Instant in addition to its other types." < 1293660733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes. But diamond is also not NEARLY as scarce as its price suggests. < 1293660739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An instant that granted mana makes more sense to me than "instant land" < 1293660749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet in Minecraft diamond is very rare and very useful, and Notch ... mocks gold for being useless? < 1293660751 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is not what I am asking. < 1293660781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A card with "Tribal" as its only type. < 1293660791 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait, the rumours about De Beers are true? < 1293660833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: The "rumours"? < 1293660840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am asking what you would think would happen if a card's type somehow was "Instant Land", not what would make more sense and that kind of stuff. < 1293660847 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was told them I was told they were rumours. < 1293660866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: If you mean the fact that diamond's supply is very carefully controlled to keep it expensive and rare-seeming, then I don't know if I'd call them rumours so much as definite facts. < 1293660886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that De Beers was a monopoly for god knows how long. < 1293660892 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was it. < 1293660899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[De Beers is well known for its monopolistic practices throughout the 20th century, whereby it used its dominant position to manipulate the international diamond market.[2][16] The company used several methods to exercise this control over the market: Firstly, it convinced independent producers to join its single channel monopoly, it flooded the market with diamonds similar to those of producers who refused to join the cartel, and la < 1293660899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stly, it purchased and stockpiled diamonds produced by other manufacturers in order to control prices through supply.[17] However, the De Beers model changed in 2000,[17] due to factors such as the decision by producers in Russia, Canada and Australia, to distribute diamonds outside of the De Beers channel, thus effectively ending the monopoly.[2][16]]] < 1293660906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: But the effects -- diamond's ludicrous price -- remain. < 1293660955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“I plan on adding some kind of overarching narrative to the game to drive the player forward and provide a sense of direction, and add many more new features, like monster towns and alchemy.”]] -Notch < 1293660995 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ruins idea is interesting. < 1293661030 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if there were old mines. < 1293661096 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you could make it psychological horror or something! < 1293661110 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is a very horrific setting in the first place. < 1293661123 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least SSP is. < 1293661205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a price people are willing to pay though < 1293661251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes ... because of De Beers marketing them :) < 1293661294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the price will likely drop though < 1293661543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject: "stop smoking shark" < 1293661566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll smoke as much shark as I want. < 1293661699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#machomebrew is INSUFFICIENTLY ACTIVE. < 1293661747 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293661798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that that means something other than what I think it means < 1293661808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think it means? < 1293661833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a way to get binaries not signed by Apple onto Macs. Apple isn't THAT psychotic, is it? < 1293661841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes they are! < 1293661902 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, programming on the Mac is *horrible*. < 1293661914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, drained another two lines today in the cube. You haven't drained any today. No offence meant. Just a fact. < 1293661926 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to get *every binary* signed by Apple. < 1293661929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, horrible as in, requires assistance from Apple, or horrible as in, .... WTF < 1293661939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, you're joking < 1293661940 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recompile? Need new signature. < 1293661943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be joking < 1293661947 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1293661962 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293661964 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even the interpreted languages are restricted. < 1293662000 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have their own versions of Python and Perl which perform signature checks, and any other interpreters are denied permission. < 1293662011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not just a fact, you're complaining. What would you prefer I do? Make packages magically install faster so I can compile mcmap? < 1293662017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I get out my magic wand? < 1293662023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Also Ruby! < 1293662028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I think you're trying to illustrate the silliness of what I thought was going on < 1293662028 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, play without mcmap? < 1293662030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1293662034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: And WALK to the Cube? < 1293662035 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I wish I was. < 1293662037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1293662041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have two computers. < 1293662052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, link to source? < 1293662053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT TURNING ON MY OLD LAPTOP JUST TO RUN MCMAP FOR FUCK'S SAKE < 1293662063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also you don't /need/ mcmap as such. < 1293662073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it is nice to have < 1293662083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am not walking to the Cube. < 1293662091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo I need //goto. < 1293662091 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but I mean, you'll have to wait to get Apple to sign it as well. < 1293662107 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well break out the old laptop. < 1293662155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPLv3 prevents allowing them from doing such things unless you are given a separate key for your own computer so that it can be bypassed in that way < 1293662166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Python/Perl/Ruby have this license? < 1293662170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1293662199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of those are GPLv3'd. < 1293662229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But GNU packages are GPLv3'd. < 1293662249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you not allowed to run any GNU packages? < 1293662250 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1293662257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can if you homebrew them. < 1293662292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What does "homebrew them" mean? What do you do in order to do that? < 1293662302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Break in. < 1293662358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I think, when someone asks if you're being sarcastic, and you obviously are, the polite thing to do is to make fun of them for being slow to figure it out, not keep it going < 1293662401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they just give you a "unit key" for this purpose? Even the GPLv3 suggests doing this. < 1293662403 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I apologise for nothing! < 1293662410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you're that dense to miss obvious sarcasm, you deserve it. < 1293662421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it was not, in fact, the truth. < 1293662425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fuck that idea of "politeness"; mocking you is hilarious, fun and easy, like all good things in life. < 1293662452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It is unclear what you are refering to. < 1293662458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have mocked me in a less cruel manner! < 1293662464 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the Apple thing. < 1293662548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That was not cruel ... that was an obvious joke. < 1293662551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are way too sensitive. < 1293662864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#machomebrew appears a secret unregistered channel. < 1293662897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Um, it's registered for me. < 1293662965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer says it is unregistered and secret but existing. < 1293662976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it say that? Is that a lie? < 1293662982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1293663018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION taints his box with non-LLVM stuff < 1293663067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:19:42 It probably says "PentiumPro" because PPro is the first CPU to return family=6, which is what pentiums II, III, M, and Core/Core2/Core i7, and Atom, return too. (P4 returns family=15, for some unclear reason.) < 1293663075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aren't all the ones listed PIII arcthiecture, and P4 NetBurst? < 1293663080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, M is NetBurst too isn't it. < 1293663173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer. < 1293663190 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.1803v1 < 1293663199 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, all the good ideas are taken. < 1293663206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer. < 1293663207 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :258) I have plans to make the computer and one day I will do it!! (I have access to barter some people might help with these things) It is many difference from other computer. < 1293663221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket has such a ... not-ready-for-prime-time-yet feel to it < 1293663251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in their response to those criticisms, for instance < 1293663280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use only components with the following criteria: * Component is not expensive. * No special membership is required. * Public information is available how it works, someone else can make a clone or emulation. * It can be programmed without proprietary software. * Components are user-replaceable. < 1293663280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, it is *decades* old. < 1293663283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, decade. < 1293663292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, which is why it's a bit concernng < 1293663294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concerning < 1293663296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1994 apparently. < 1293663302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your complaints are stupid, though. < 1293663306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly a few more criteria, too. < 1293663325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the complaints of the person I linked to? < 1293663333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of these criteria? < 1293663337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I didn't see. < 1293663352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.com/2010/08/racket-vs-clojure.html < 1293663368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I need to name my computer. Anyone have any good hostnames? < 1293663370 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293663379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Clojure is terrible so anyone who's comparing X to Clojure and preferring Clojure is a moron unless X is PHP. < 1293663408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get the impression that the person wants to prefer Racket < 1293663416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hates a lot of things about Clojure < 1293663420 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-34-253.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293663424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about some random guy on the internet. < 1293663428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now someone name my computer. < 1293663431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You name it. < 1293663434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know. Are you going to use some dynamic DNS service? Will you get a static address and DNS? Is it only for your private network? < 1293663438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ok, but eir criticisms might still be valid < 1293663445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My previous one was called dinky; as this computer is EVEN DINKER, I have no idea what to call it.) < 1293663454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but I don't read every post that says HASKELL SUX either. < 1293663460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just for private network. < 1293663461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone defending Racket on that page: "In support of Racket, we have come up with a library of data structures in Typed Racket (a statically typed dialect of Racket). And we are in the process of integrating it into the Racket release" < 1293663462 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the Anguish of Malevolence. < 1293663466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it "evendinker", then. < 1293663466 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Angy" for short. < 1293663472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "We're working on it" < 1293663477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evendinkier < 1293663482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Typed Racket is very old. < 1293663488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So clearly they are just merging it into Racket itself. < 1293663493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Note that you can used Typed Racket with Racket. < 1293663499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket supports multiple languages in one implementation. < 1293663505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am aware of that < 1293663506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They coexist and can use the same libraries. < 1293663516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty ... I think Racket wants to take over the world < 1293663521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consume all other languages < 1293663536 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket = Scheme \cup other cool things, yes? < 1293663543 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293663550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Pretty much. Except it's not a strict R5RS superset now. < 1293663553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Conses are immutable) < 1293663554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will never be a Racket.NET, because Racket and .NET are almost in competition < 1293663575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Something wrong with creating a cohesive environment? < 1293663579 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, pleasepleaseplease tell me that's a quote? < 1293663583 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1293663589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1293663589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, that what's not a quote < 1293663595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1293663598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293663605 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you do not call the computer Angy I will be very upset and I won't help you ever again. < 1293663623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, the thing I didn't put in quote marks? < 1293663624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: BTW, my previous computer names have been Bournemouth (the iMac, named after the computer in Look Around You series 2; previously Deep-Thought), and dinky. < 1293663638 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Around You series 2! < 1293663645 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had it! < 1293663651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes! The comedy program slightly worse than Look Around You series 1! < 1293663654 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least series 1 is on YouTube! < 1293663672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Bournemouth was a computer so clever it had to be kept in a cage to stop it escaping. < 1293663689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that clip is on YouTube < 1293663693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it, so < 1293663700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC. < 1293663710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnNSvzvY6VE < 1293663713 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm. Remember it vaguely. < 1293663745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think more languages shoud have dual-pane REPLs like DrRacket < 1293663750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it ninja, were it not so cliche. < 1293663758 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, explain. < 1293663759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll call it REAL-ULTIMATE-POWER. < 1293663762 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ANGY < 1293663771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, definitions separate from REPL entry < 1293663775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got a list of every named object in H2G2? < 1293663792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can just edit the definitions without retyping them or copy-paste < 1293663802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And without having a file to store the program open < 1293663815 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh, AKA @'s source editor. < 1293663840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yeah, @ did it first ... or is that will do it later..." < 1293663896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I should call it Hotblack Desatio. < 1293663913 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1293663920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLaneT sounds great, but... I think centralization shouldn't be the only answer to module management < 1293664100 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630] < 1293664339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i forgot it, what was it about? remind me < 1293664376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9's was a murderer who escaped death by entering other people's minds, and was killed < 1293664384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for spoilers) < 1293664403 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds9 and spoilers? ahahahah < 1293664404 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1293664408 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293664425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what's so funny, ds9 is incredibly linear < 1293664445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: pkg-config: Command not found < 1293664462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FT-1'f jnf Nahovf jnf haxvyynoyr, naq gnxvat bire crbcyr. Ur riraghnyyl rfpncrq, ohg jnf gevpxrq vagb tbvat bagb n sebmra cynarg. < 1293664471 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: saying "i spoiled ds9 for you" is like saying "i threw away your two week old pizza leftovers, you can't eat them anymore" < 1293664493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that Snape killed Dumbledore/!??!. < 1293664500 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like he told us what's on the desert planet in star trek iv < 1293664510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the answer is Khan) < 1293664516 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the answer is < 1293664519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1's was Anubis was unkillable, and taking over people. He eventually escaped, but was tricked into going onto a frozen planet. < 1293664522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1293664524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fixed that for you < 1293664533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh him < 1293664556 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was boring < 1293664588 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked how his avatar in the higher plane was a rotund banker < 1293664645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone sane use Insert Lambda in DrRacket? < 1293664676 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they're sane but they use it to inflict pain on other people who later have to work with that code? < 1293664686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Snape did not killed Dumbledore. I did (accidentally) < 1293664692 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason why i write production code with haskell < 1293664758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sure. < 1293664761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode lambdas are nice. < 1293664781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE GOES COMPILATION TIME TO RADIATE MY FUTURE BABIES AWAY < 1293664784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BENEFITS OF LAPTOPS < 1293664882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why my preferred means of getting babies is theft. < 1293664895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very funny < 1293664903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λ < 1293664913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Before they're born? < 1293664928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before their parents are born? < 1293664940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have this mental image of you pulling fetuses out of vaginas now and keeping them all in your lair, laughing manically. < 1293664947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possibly the best mental image I have ever had < 1293664997 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, incidentally, are you really anosmic? < 1293665012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> ed - config.h < config.h.ed < 1293665013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve < 1293665046 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have taken all the numbers under 24 million, and grouped them in groups of 24. then i took the 1st, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, ... 23rd number off those. that's 8 numbers, and if the nth number is a prime number, the bit is 1. i have put this string of bytes in a wave file, and the output is.. white noise? < 1293665081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ZOMG WHAT IS RANDOMNESS < 1293665082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Why did you do that? < 1293665091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are spiral forms if you render the distribution a certain way though IIRC < 1293665094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan probably knows more < 1293665103 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, google "primzahlenkreuz" < 1293665106 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i did 24 < 1293665124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how difficult it would be to implement a Python subset in Racket < 1293665126 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone came up to me with this idea, i immediately called BS on it < 1293665129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: been done iirc < 1293665131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, implement is the wrong word < 1293665133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone did some denotational semantics thing < 1293665137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have as a #lang < 1293665156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i did this silly little calculation, and it proved interesting. < 1293665163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know what denotational semantics is :( < 1293665166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting as ... white noise? < 1293665182 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly this amount of interesting. < 1293665187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console.c:144: error: ‘rl_mark’ undeclared (first use in this function) < 1293665197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Compiling mcmap on OS X needs you to manually use GNU readline, FWIW. < 1293665202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it comes with libedit as libreadline, I think. < 1293665225 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does there have to be readline drama < 1293665229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293665232 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those people are out of their minds < 1293665234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1293665238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no readline drama < 1293665240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck are you talking about < 1293665242 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is < 1293665265 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every second language that has an interpreter abandons readline and goes for some sort of alternative bs < 1293665276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's gpl < 1293665279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1293665281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly reasonable. < 1293665288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libedit is very common and well-known < 1293665290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty much accurate. < 1293665293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Hyposmic. < 1293665308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: is it unthinkable to you that some people like licensing code under something that isn't gpl? < 1293665312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus preventing them using readline? < 1293665322 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what does that cause? < 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c: In function ‘map_init’: < 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c:107: error: nested functions are disabled, use -fnested-functions to re-enable < 1293665335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c: In function ‘map_draw_player_marker’: < 1293665337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map.c:399: error: nested functions are disabled, use -fnested-functions to re-enable < 1293665339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ < 1293665360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c: In function ‘world_thread’: < 1293665361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:460: warning: no return statement in function returning non-void < 1293665369 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is too complicated for my simple mind < 1293665413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: return NULL fixes that. < 1293665415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It doesn't "cause" anything, it's a symptom, it's a reduced sense of smell. < 1293665438 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh, of course. < 1293665450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: PRINTER IS EXPLODING < 1293665540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on mcmap, you can connect. < 1293665722 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293666182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAKE RFID READERS FOR THE NEW WORLD ORDER < 1293666278 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293666313 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, will they spare your organs when they make their harvest? < 1293666333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his organs will clearly be saved < 1293666346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now where and which purpose i cannot say < 1293666355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for which < 1293666438 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they'll keep him so that when they get bored after crushing all the dissidents they have someone to RFID tag everyone else. < 1293666476 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1293666748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: WHAT SHOULD I DO THAT IS INTERESTING < 1293666861 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an exploration mode in MC that doesn't let you mod stuff? < 1293666917 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one planned. < 1293666923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: There's an adventure mode. < 1293666928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mod presumably you mean change blocks. < 1293666932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adventure mode is pre-scripted stuff. < 1293666933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293666933 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it will never happen until Notch gets his act together. < 1293666942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you'd want to explore and do absolutely nothing. < 1293666944 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will never happen full stop. < 1293666946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can; just never hit any blocks. < 1293666956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would be _boring_. < 1293666983 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. i was thinking you could make a true 3d maze and just trust everyone who plays it not to cheat :P < 1293667047 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be better if you had a 3d maze where hitting blocks was part of it...but can you even place indestructible blocks? i didn't think you could... < 1293667061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well obsidian takes 30s or so to mine even with a diamond pickaxe < 1293667064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with hand ... minutes < 1293667072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can place bedrock as a server op though < 1293667074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indestructable < 1293667126 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't remove it, so god help you if you place a block wrongly. < 1293667135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just make a map out of bedrock i guess... < 1293667164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Racket's functional reactive stuff a good way to learn functional reactive programming? < 1293667165 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, bedrock is destructible in the sense that it doesn't actually have infinite resistance to explosions, just mind-bogglingly high. < 1293667177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doubtful.