< 1293408145 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293408236 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293408540 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293408714 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293409304 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1293409911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"J – It is unbeatable if you have RSI and need to type as little characters as possible for a task that can be applied to a whole array." < 1293410022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha it's funny because J programs are short? < 1293410134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rfc1149.net/blog/2010/12/09/something-nice-about-every-language-i-use/ < 1293410148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha, it's the best thing the person could come up with to say about J < 1293410245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should learn Ada < 1293410626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The experienced C programmer will probably be a bit frustrated with the attention to details required by the Ada compiler. You will not have your favorite "tricks" available to fool the compiler into doing something out of the ordinary. The Ada compiler cannot be fooled." < 1293411036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1293411159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, some people really hate Ada < 1293411548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear tutorial: Do you HAVE to use a sample program with deliberately horrible style to show an example Ada program? < 1293411552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.infres.enst.fr/~pautet/Ada95/chap02.htm < 1293411557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.infres.enst.fr/~pautet/Ada95/e_c02_p1.ada < 1293411578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I should learn Ada < 1293411582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1293411586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the worst languages ever. < 1293411611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my understanding, it's mostly syntax issues? < 1293411627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more than that. < 1293411699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to have SOME supporters. Not many. < 1293411729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got this idea that it's a good language for safety assurances < 1293411737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The human extinction movement has supporters, so do Republicans. < 1293411848 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vhemt.org/ whnat the fuck? < 1293411873 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just want to decrease the number of people, not go exitinct < 1293411897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, some of them do want humanity to go extinct < 1293411935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make a distinction between those who support extinction and those who just want to see the human population decrease significantly < 1293411968 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1293411976 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an important difference! < 1293411979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They compare humanity to cancer < 1293411988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4369876000541116073# < 1293412072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the difference: http://www.vhemt.org/ecology.htm#whyv < 1293412089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: Why extinction? Why not just get our population down to a sustainable size? < 1293412089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHEMT Supporters favor this goal, while Volunteers see extinction as the only sure way to avoid breeding ourselves back to today’s density." < 1293412248 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really make sense to call yourself a member of Human Extinction Movement in that case :/ < 1293412715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: VHEMT is very stupid < 1293412721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly worth expecting consistency of them < 1293412744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the best solution to overpopulation is lack of population!" < 1293412780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would (probably) leave the planet without any sentience which is /very/ stupid < 1293412806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: The spawn protection area is waaay too big. < 1293412807 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1293412809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember on the news seeing some environmental cleanup program that was projected to take 99 years. < 1293412812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why what? < 1293412817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what VHEMT thinks of that < 1293412839 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should earth be sentient? < 1293412839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why would it be bad to be without sentience, you mean? < 1293412861 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293412873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I hold sentience to be intrinsically valuable. < 1293412880 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what? < 1293412891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It's an axiom. < 1293412899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ZFC based on? < 1293412900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1293412920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least "sentience is valuable" is a lot less likely to be inconsistent than ZFC...) < 1293413087 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, if eta : F --> G is a natural transformation for functors F,G : C --> D. Then X : C |- etaX : FX --> GX < 1293413128 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some 'respectfulness' condition on it like X = X' -> etaX = etaX' < 1293413151 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293413180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think i'm going to link to your file in #epigram and ask them what it looks like in epigram 2 >:) < 1293413181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION troll < 1293413190 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait let me paste it < 1293413191 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293413207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see bug report for mcmap on mc < 1293413359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "too much work for way too little gain" < 1293413366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. something dereferences it and i can't figure out what because of glib :) < 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:24 [CHAT] Woot, now it segfaults. < 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:26 [CHAT] ehird left the game. < 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:30 [CHAT] heh < 1293413369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:48 [CHAT] ehird quality engineering < 1293413370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1293413379 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293413382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Technically it didn't segfault. < 1293413385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just closed the map window. < 1293413406 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the lastest http://coq.pastebin.com/cxeeG9qt < 1293413416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that statement still applies < 1293413446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i can't bring myself to do it, they're too nice, the epigram folk < 1293413611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would it be trolling to ask that? < 1293413635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hehe... epigram is (sort of (kind of)) entirely vapourware ... more specifically they have an implementation but Epigram Itself: The User Language isn't on top of it yet < 1293413677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would just get a "no idea yet"? < 1293413691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: More likely "oh, go away" < 1293413756 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293413756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How simple is it to make a electronic circuit for receiving a call display information? < 1293413864 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I'm not sure how to define Component_respectful < 1293413911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: heck if I know :D < 1293413922 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1293413928 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1293413936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used idris? < 1293413940 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293413959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293414095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: The end of this sentence is false, but the beginning of it is true. < 1293414120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts thinking about his old transaction type < 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transaction ok? transformed? after-ok? result < 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A function -- given a world W that satisfies (ok? W), and a < 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : continuation that takes a world s.t. (transformed? W), and a < 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : value of type result, and returns a new world W', < 1293414402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.t. (after-ok? W'), returns the new world W'. < 1293414403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transaction (\_ -> True) (\w -> fileIsOpenInWorld? filename w) (\w -> fileIsClosedInWorld? filename w) File < 1293414406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ugly though ... < 1293414411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it reduces to some elegant thing when strippe ddown < 1293414416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stripped down < 1293414433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be the result of "openFile" given a filename) < 1293414472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(readCharFromFile, given a filename, would look something like "Transaction (\w -> fileIsOpenInWorld? filename w) (\_ -> True) (\_ -> True) Char") < 1293414476 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293414494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then ofc you'd have to prove that the file is open in the world at type-checking time, which could probably be done automatically in most cases) < 1293414549 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty complicated < 1293414549 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293414587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah it is but I think the "core" of it is pretty simple < 1293414612 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that#s the important thoing < 1293414631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you want a certain value, and also a world which satisfies a relevant condition; to get it, you must give it a world that satisfies /its/ (the transaction's) relevant condition, and also show that the world at the end will be acceptable to it < 1293414638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, opening a file without closing it is a type error in this system < 1293414643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the postcondition in openFile < 1293414658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just "IO result" except really-overly-typed < 1293414696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293414737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish oklopol would come back < 1293414817 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-186-29.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293415075 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293415105 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you find out about VEHMT? < 1293415119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's pretty well-known, dunno how i heard of it < 1293415127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had not heard of it < 1293415153 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's been acting up lately < 1293415159 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to switch back to Opera < 1293415160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293415566 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293415772 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1293415896 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293415961 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293416049 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293416212 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293416306 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293416341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293416378 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293416384 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293416755 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293416775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[99],*r=s,*d,c;main(a,b){char*v=1[d=b];for(;c=*v++%93;)for(b=c&2,b=c%7?a&&(c&17?c&1?(*r+=b-1):(r+=b-1):syscall(4-!b,b,r,1),0):v;b&&c|a**r;v=d)main(!c,&a);d=v;} < 1293416782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this has been beaten yet. < 1293416787 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293416794 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293417049 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293417117 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293417122 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293417159 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293417344 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293417429 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293417436 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it could be beaten by Haskell < 1293417489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably too much looping though :-/ < 1293417494 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293417518 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293417527 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: http://www.jaist.ac.jp/~hirokawa/tool/ < 1293417672 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is a rewriting tool? news to me :p < 1293417852 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293417889 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293418023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mathnerd314: http://www.jaist.ac.jp/~hirokawa/tool/ < 1293418025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1293418034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: do you know what it does, though? < 1293418077 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "glorious glasgow haskell compiler"... < 1293418090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i mean the c progam < 1293418091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1293418122 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously a brainfuck interpreter (just ask google) < 1293418241 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293418256 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293418424 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293418593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, your wonders of the world looks blown up < 1293418621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it you? < 1293418649 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293418657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, HUGE hole, several exhibits broken < 1293418709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was that /bastard/ < 1293418720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching a binary counter count up is quite hypnotic < 1293418781 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: link? < 1293418883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, on minecraft < 1293418944 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly deeplinking into other people's computers < 1293419013 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not) < 1293419104 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293419471 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really vandalize other's stuff on AW! < 1293419475 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1293419656 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293419804 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293420140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1293420283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it you? < 1293420285 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what I'm going to write my 7 page paper about < 1293420289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1293420291 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misplaced trust < 1293420316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, someone blew up Deewiant's "wonders of the world" < 1293420317 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes everything from SQL Injections and XSS attacks to social engineering < 1293420330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you or PH < 1293420333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: o_O < 1293420346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one else would do it < 1293420355 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blew up? With an explosion, or mining it out? < 1293420369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Was it the TNT room or something? < 1293420379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine people blowing that up accidentally ... but then I'm me. < 1293420387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the TNT room. but it had a huge radius < 1293420395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it more or less cut the building in half < 1293420398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :across it < 1293420412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it wasn't a chunk loading error? :p < 1293420412 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't happen in AW =P < 1293420418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes... < 1293420424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it had no straight edgers < 1293420426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edges < 1293420434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke. < 1293420440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293420456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoever it was, I suggest we all help in rebuilding the other walls at least < 1293420463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rock below it < 1293420469 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd help if I was in minecraft < 1293420474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some snow left. < 1293420476 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't have a 7 page paper to write < 1293420476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll come see. :/ < 1293420480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you know coordinates for teleporting? < 1293420485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sec < 1293420491 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are there any topics in computer security that don't come down to misplaced trust? < 1293420491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, armour-friendly or near? < 1293420503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Near. < 1293420513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-717, 928 < 1293420520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting MC ... < 1293420521 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protecting from natural disasters I guess. Or could that be "Misplaced trust in God" >.> < 1293420540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reflections on Trusting Trusting Trust. < 1293420543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit what is *that*. < 1293420554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not there yet) < 1293420565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wheat < 1293420794 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293420932 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293421141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///goto -717 928 < 1293421143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1293421144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://goto -717 928 < 1293421258 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laffs at elliott  < 1293421267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293421285 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it wasn't you accidentally inputting into IRC twice < 1293421516 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh wheat" <- awesome < 1293421936 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293421990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: wat < 1293422040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to say "oh wheat" whenever I see something surprising < 1293422183 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293422184 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293422551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ah. in this case it was actually wheat. < 1293422662 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wheat useful? Do you need to eat to live in MC? < 1293422698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. No. < 1293422710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that will be an option in the final game.) < 1293422789 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to be a gibbering idiot by the end of the night < 1293422830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Why. < 1293422840 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 page research paper < 1293422840 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtons second law < 1293422845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: OH NO A WHOLE SEVEN PAGE < 1293422845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1293422852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to get it done before my professor wakes up < 1293422875 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I didn't even start on it < 1293422991 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293423346 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293423359 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it about? maybe you can distribute it < 1293423504 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security < 1293423512 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll talk about misplaced trust < 1293423517 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is incredibly broad < 1293423549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in security, all trust is misplaced. < 1293423640 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really afford not to trust the compiler, though. The risk is somewhat small, but the lengths that would need to be gone through to migitate that risk < 1293423646 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with hardware < 1293423674 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293423675 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're Wikileaks and you foolishly accept hardware from the U.S. Gov't or something < 1293423749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can't really afford not to trust the compiler, though. The risk is somewhat small, but the lengths that would need to be gone through to migitate that risk < 1293423758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ < 1293423760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: trusting trust has been solved. < 1293423788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the risk is somewhat large, actually; Trusting Trust was (thought to be) the only truly unbreakable hack < 1293423977 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually do it? < 1293424036 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you determine if something is bit-for-bit identical? < 1293424037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Um, you don't do it if you don't strongly distrust your machine. < 1293424064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do you determine if something is bit-for-bit identical? < 1293424072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: You could use the second, trusted compiler it mentions to write a program to do so. < 1293424123 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you read Double Computing < 1293424128 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to counter trusting trust < 1293424132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo__: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ < 1293424134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Double Compiling < 1293424136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what the link is < 1293424146 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait - you were describing that < 1293424150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diverse Double Compiling technically < 1293424151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1293424158 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why its so good < 1293424170 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its OBVIOUS that if you have a second trusted compiler you could defeat the attack < 1293424177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no, it's not that obvious < 1293424185 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you gain that trust? < 1293424201 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not? < 1293424209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's about compiling the _compiler_ < 1293424217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you can ultimately trust your own software. < 1293424234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not interested in going that far, you can trust something that isn't yourself. but that is more trustworthy than your untrusted box. < 1293424291 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I have a compiler which I trust which compiles source code which I trust which is a compiler then I could use that second compiler to compile other programs without fear < 1293424292 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct? < 1293424307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: no. not if you don't trust the system library < 1293424315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: anyway, the point is that - < 1293424321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: the system programs are compiled with the untrusted compiler < 1293424325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to know: is the system compromised? < 1293424328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DDC lets you check. < 1293424341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't about compiling programs you can trust, it's about /seeing whether the system is trustable/ < 1293424347 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah ok < 1293424353 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes about 100x more sense now < 1293424361 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can a trusted compiler on an untrusted system be trusted? < 1293424369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static-linking only, etc? < 1293424460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: just write everything yourself < 1293424473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the only syscalls you need are "read from standard input" and "write to standard output" pretty much < 1293424491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if write("yes") gives "no" you can easily test for that :-P < 1293424615 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great now i have a comma category < 1293424633 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karma karma karma karma chameleon < 1293424664 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*karma < 1293424779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what's that one? < 1293424828 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea.. < 1293424832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293424881 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have functors A --F--> C <--G-- B and the comma category F,G is sort of like generalized commutative squares with maps being C-maps and B-maps in parallel < 1293424930 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define natural transforms in terms of it, and also the category of cones < 1293424956 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the category of cones makes sense, but thats a really simplified specific case of the comma category < 1293425062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1293425145 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely onders if Sputnik is still in orbit < 1293425323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 48 < 1293425341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sputnik 1 burned up on 4 January 1958, as it fell from orbit upon reentering Earth's atmosphere, after travelling about 60 million km (37 million miles) and spending 3 months in orbit.[5] < 1293425430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/arthou$ make < 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfortran hello.f95 -o hello < 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s hello < 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/arthou$ ./hello < 1293425431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, world! < 1293425432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why the space. < 1293425742 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I've broke the 1000 line mark http://coq.pastebin.com/7tueVQYx < 1293425748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1293425751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program hello < 1293425758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(*,"(A)") "Hello, world!" < 1293425759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end program hello < 1293425770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work ... < 1293425774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A needs length after it < 1293425791 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desperately needing a better prover though < 1293425817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : write(*,"('Hello, world!')") < 1293425818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but ugh < 1293425880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print '(A)', 'Hello, world!' < 1293425881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1293425905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make it a function though < 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subroutine say(s) < 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : character s*(*) < 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print '(A)', s < 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end subroutine say < 1293426011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program arthou < 1293426012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : call say('Hello, world!') < 1293426014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end program arthou < 1293426016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1293426087 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know a good text for Knuth Bendix? < 1293426144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately not < 1293426333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1293426334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293426651 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293426964 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the requirements for adding a language to esolang ? < 1293427010 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1293427021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure it's well-specified < 1293427028 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or hilarious < 1293427065 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ie - can I announce a new one (derivative of brainfuck) on it or should I announce it on a personal blog first? < 1293427111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go right ahead and post it < 1293427118 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add it to the language list < 1293427121 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1293427142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure you put it in the brainfuck derivatives category so we know not to bother reading it :P < 1293427148 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, heh < 1293427182 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'll probably read it to see if it adds anything brilliant < 1293427203 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its brainfuck with one extra operator "~" which changes the value at the program counter by the amount at the stack pointer to allow for self modifying programs < 1293427205 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing special < 1293427268 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program counter... it can only self modify at ~ points? < 1293427282 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack pointer? < 1293427297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bracket stack? < 1293427314 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, yes < 1293427350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293427356 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the data pointer < 1293427358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1293427377 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changes it to the pointed to value? or adds it? < 1293427382 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adds < 1293427395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1293427403 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm - I just thought of a better idea < 1293427418 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds like a silly thing to do < 1293427434 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying brainfuck already does full self-modificatin < 1293427443 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it already exists? < 1293427453 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION couldn't find it < 1293427462 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah...every variant of bf already exists :P < 1293427466 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, maybe we could do research into finite and limited self modification < 1293427489 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, like the way there are classes of computational complexity, such as TC, there are classes of self-modifyingness < 1293427490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Self-modifying_Brainfuck < 1293427526 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-} < 1293427603 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds difficult to write code to manipulate what you want and when < 1293427631 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First step for convenience might be shifing everything over for easy..wait that would modify the source < 1293427639 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! In the source code, include markers < 1293427641 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i suspect that like TCness, it will be hard to limit it in such a way that creates an in-between class between trivial self-modification (aka, the ~ thing that only changes a command once to something else) and full on self-modification where the entire continuation can be replaced by something else < 1293427676 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ~ is already nicely in between the full thing and no self-mod < 1293427680 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a start < 1293427748 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it seems like it gives you no more flexibility than SMETANA's line-swapping paradigm does < 1293427761 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, does it give less? < 1293427768 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that in and of itself would be interesting IMO < 1293427769 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does actuually < 1293427773 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to tell < 1293427799 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, please don't take this hard < 1293427806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can only change a ~ to something other than a ~ exactly once < 1293427815 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you can swap lines as many times as you want < 1293427824 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, hrm ? < 1293427846 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, the near uselessness of ~, I mean. Well, actually, it is useful as an object of study, so < 1293427853 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, i recognized it wasn't exactly useful < 1293427866 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using it so the user could modify the program < 1293427871 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with input < 1293427880 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Well, actually, it is useful as an object of study, so" --> how so? < 1293427887 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, we're discussing it < 1293427892 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant < 1293427906 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's interesting, and want to keep exploring levels of self-mod < 1293427914 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a 7 page paper to write :/ < 1293427919 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what topic? < 1293427930 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to get into theoretical comp sci < 1293427933 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryptography and Computer Security < 1293427943 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, oh right - the one you pushed off... < 1293427950 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone here did :- < 1293427969 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, me < 1293427988 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a non paper assignment in the same class < 1293427989 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1293427991 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN < 1293428004 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293428011 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my classes are thankfully ove < 1293428038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iei < 1293428188 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the minimum change you need to BF to make it fully self-modifying is a ~ that appends the character under the data pointer to the program < 1293428299 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293428313 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that raises the question of the definition of "fully" < 1293428343 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, old code stays forever part of the program, but you could rewrite everything and never be in the old code again < 1293428343 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the entire continuation can be replaced by something else" < 1293428350 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293428396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a reasonable definition < 1293428435 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is fully self-modifying if it can ever reach a point that it is executing only code that did not exist before it started running < 1293428483 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, did not exist outside of the input /to/ the program) < 1293428589 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should also be true that the code that can be created in this way is fully as powerful as the language itself < 1293428620 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, how does that tie in with halting < 1293428632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else languages that let you add a bounded-time subset of the original code would qualify < 1293428643 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. added code doesn't return to the old code iff added code doesn't halt < 1293428649 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think eval()) < 1293428677 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that less powerful than full self-mod? < 1293428697 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that depends if there's a HALT instruction, doesn't it? < 1293428713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: if the underlying language is capable of non-halting computations, any modified code should also be capable of not halting < 1293428732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/any// < 1293428806 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that one could prove existence of programs for which haltingness and return-to-pre-existing code are fully separable problems < 1293428832 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, you can show that it will not return to pre-existing code even if you can't prove it will halt < 1293428855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, maybe not for all fully self-modifying languages < 1293428875 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293428915 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i bet i could prove that there exist programs that one cannot prove whether or not it returns to pre-existing code < 1293428926 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to think about it < 1293429051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :EGASSEMTERCESATONSISIHT | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293429087 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is zzo38. there is no way anyone could guess what that message says, so it must be secret. < 1293429148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Are you sure? < 1293429190 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright i've got it. construct a program P that takes a program M and then does "GOTO 0" when it halts. Now pass it as input to a program Q that prints "RUNNING" and then appends the input code to its own code. Pass this program to your executes-preexisting-code-again decider < 1293429220 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the decider says it does, then it says M halts. if it says it doesn't then it says M does not halt < 1293429291 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... fully self-modifying as i defined it is not a decidable class. < 1293429311 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. proof: apply rice's thm. < 1293429430 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is "pre-existing" defined? < 1293429438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it depends on how good one is at reading. < 1293429460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:00 I get to work < 1293429767 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: "pre-existing"="invariant at program initialization irrespective of the input" < 1293429800 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does self-modification without accepting input to determine the modifications not count as self-modifying? < 1293429831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't consider it that, personally < 1293429833 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because you can undo it into a normal program < 1293429838 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1293429978 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps another way of defining it is in terms of a state machine: if it can create new states and has the potential of abandoning entirely the set of states it was initialized with < 1293430146 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a quine that copies itself and then executes on the copy? < 1293430265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a definition that reduces it to exactly what i'm trying to get at < 1293430395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language is SM-complete if it is possible to create a program where there comes a point in its execution such that the entire continuation is dependent ONLY upon the contents of the input string and the contents of the program itself at initialization is completely irrelevant < 1293430610 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the quine program would not be such a program ad therefore says nothing about whether its underlying language is SM-complete) < 1293431173 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... if one can write an interpreter in the language? < 1293431209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is almost getting confusing... < 1293431295 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, the contents of the program at initialization are what lets it self-modify < 1293431320 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can have a program that doesn't use those features, then the language isn't SM-complete by your definition < 1293431335 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict < 1293431369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take Befunge/index.php, and make x the only legal program < 1293431374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no, i said the entire /continuation/ at /some point in its execution/ is independent of the program at init < 1293431407 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1293431609 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks the entire concept of self-modification is a throwback to machine code and is otherwise useless < 1293431647 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, as useless as Brainfuck? < 1293431702 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"useless" in terms of not granting one any more power < 1293431708 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1293431742 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should discuss how one could use it to grant one less power < 1293431757 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1293431782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have SM-complete yet still have the option to limit ... yeah, you shuld < 1293431785 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should < 1293431831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: maybe self-modification grants one no more power, and the same is surely true of introspection/reflection, but both can make a lot of programs a whole lot easier to write < 1293431909 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i suspect we could come up with a SM-complete language that that is only primitive recursive < 1293431943 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SM-code is just another form of mutation. and mutation is ugly compared to calculation. (IMO, obviously) < 1293431952 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to study up on primitive recursive < 1293431978 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there languages where the only mutation is self-modification? I think I've seen it < 1293432038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it is a whole lot easier to update an application without taking it offline if you have SM built in. < 1293432073 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is running out of battery < 1293432086 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plug in! < 1293432092 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updating is mutation! It must die! < 1293432104 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From now on, only write perfect code! < 1293432121 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you can update without self-mod if the application is just an interpreter < 1293432124 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no! use copy-on-write and then garbage-collect! < 1293432142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: in underload, self-mod is the only form of flow control. does that count? < 1293432163 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1293432175 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There wasn't something stronger? < 1293432183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stronger? < 1293432186 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No variables, just constants, modified by SM? < 1293432192 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing < 1293432196 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahm < 1293432216 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on < 1293432241 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean like all input is written immediately into the program? < 1293432269 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not sure < 1293432269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all data is stored in the program? < 1293432284 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I haven't seen it before < 1293432294 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aubergine would qualify there, although it has conventional flow control (gotos) < 1293432356 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a side note, Aubergine is one of my favorite languages on the wiki. i couldn't say why.) < 1293432479 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(This reference implementation is buggy. The "or" on line 15 should be an "and," and against all logic, the "<" on line 44 should be a "<=.")" < 1293432481 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1293432524 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wrote that < 1293432543 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i had to make those changes to the ref impl to make it work < 1293432549 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just fix it? < 1293432555 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't control the interp? < 1293432558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider [[IINC]]. Is that relevant? Maybe if you remove the line values and make it modify the commands instead? < 1293432561 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not my language < 1293432593 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you do it :P < 1293432629 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean hypothetically. < 1293432695 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630] < 1293432842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you can make a new kind of esolang out of purely self-modifying. < 1293432894 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that language where all instructions must come from input < 1293432902 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to quintopia, it's SM-complete < 1293432907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Easy]] < 1293432936 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Is Easy the right one? < 1293432948 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293433006 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1293433006 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that seems Forth-like < 1293433015 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole program is interpreting the program thing < 1293433021 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'd say that's SM-complee < 1293433035 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1293433049 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could also argue that it is more an interpreter than a language < 1293433091 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a problem < 1293433096 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, how is an interpreter that never leaves interpreter mode not as SM-complete as a program in an SM-complete language that gets completely overwritten? < 1293433103 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the : command is guaranteed to always be executed again < 1293433122 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it occurs at the end of a program regardless of the input < 1293433134 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is pre-existing code that always gets executed again < 1293433140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's disqualified < 1293433253 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it's possible that any TC language is SMC by virtue of such interpreters being possible. i'll have to think about it. < 1293433346 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?926695 i'm gonna play this at a party some night :P < 1293434568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293434969 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared that if I describe what an SQL injection is, and don't provide a source, my professor will think I'm plagiarising or something. < 1293435066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have standards for common knowledge? < 1293435111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, do it anyway < 1293435634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I recommend making sure it's not your computer < 1293435655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twiddling bits is a fantastic way to screw your system up in precise ways < 1293435663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or use a VM) < 1293435820 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i was thinking of building a system just to play on < 1293435830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can rebuild it from scratch the next day < 1293436060 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to play detective < 1293436350 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293436436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: ? < 1293436525 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bobby Tables! < 1293436657 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love playing detective < 1293436673 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/EUswg.jpg < 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/d5vDN.jpg < 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/feroG.jpg < 1293436677 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WbMEs.jpg < 1293436678 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the dressing up like a gumshoe and playing cat and mouse with attractive widows part < 1293436680 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure who did it < 1293436686 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually like solving mysteries < 1293436690 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happened a little while ago < 1293436754 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 mins, I get back to work < 1293436759 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next paragraph etc < 1293436765 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1min < 1293436799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1293436800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1293437126 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now railing about Diaspora's piece of shit security < 1293437183 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you EasyBib, that is NOT an invalid URL < 1293437810 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1293437811 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1293437837 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, nevermind < 1293437844 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. I'm still saying fuck you < 1293437857 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I have no idea. < 1293438523 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293438590 0 :marmar!~Marco_Gab@host34-149-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1293438596 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao < 1293438621 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1293438646 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!list < 1293438660 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marmar, hm? < 1293438665 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to do? < 1293438693 0 :marmar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293439037 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1293439038 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1293439046 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill < 1293439052 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you please look at the commands list < 1293439061 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tell me if there's a command i could replace < 1293439069 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be "duplicate topmost element on stack" < 1293439093 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking division or multiplication < 1293439164 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :² < 1293439184 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293439189 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry < 1293439194 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't look at the page < 1293439215 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think multiplication as it's far easier to implement with add/sub than division < 1293439231 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate topmost element on stack would save a lot of cycles for possible programmers < 1293439235 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1293439242 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example to duplicate a value of 10000 < 1293439247 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to execute like... 100000 commands < 1293439387 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Seriously, cloud computing was the original motivation for the language." -- Gilad Bracha on Newspeak < 1293439400 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, suddenly, I'm not so sure how much I like this language < 1293439419 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the language itself is fine, but can I morally support this language when that is its goal? < 1293439434 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not really that cloud-extremist < 1293439438 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should relax < 1293442610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293443930 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293444007 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is exactly equivalent to an SQL injection vulnerability, except in a language other than Javascript." < 1293444010 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I'm tired < 1293444144 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg < 1293444145 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg < 1293444146 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg < 1293444148 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ST7Cg.jpg < 1293444331 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if that's NSFW or not < 1293444378 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that it is < 1293444529 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__ < 1293444530 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not NSFW < 1293444535 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Not Safe For Any Kind Of Life Or Sanity < 1293444568 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, the only thing that matches that description is death < 1293444823 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, BZFlag < 1293444842 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talked about BZFlag two years ago, as an example of cheating in ga... no, I didn't actually < 1293444847 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm using it now =P < 1293444936 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293445184 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293445309 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293445439 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293445638 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293445904 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293446690 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now talking about Trusting Trust < 1293446806 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html this is it? < 1293446811 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the whole thing? < 1293447198 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html I actually understand this < 1293447956 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293448074 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so... obvious, really < 1293448710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293449895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Agu10sInternet < 1293449907 0 :Agu10sInternet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1293450454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/owls/ :D < 1293450547 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dares oerjan to read every Mezzacotta strip < 1293450568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try < 1293450786 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I on again? < 1293450790 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social engineering < 1293451046 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293451173 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293452281 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are some similarities and differences between prank calls and attacks such as SQL injections?" < 1293452286 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official, I'm insane. < 1293452340 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clarifies "prank calls" < 1293452871 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 seemingly unrelated comp sec topics in one paper < 1293452873 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible! < 1293453441 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1293453583 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293454893 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293455968 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293456177 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1293456179 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1293456184 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1293456461 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293456461 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293456461 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293456895 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293456978 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293457349 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-8-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293457553 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293457555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... I'm seeing how small space one can pack the complete list of all allocated unicast IPv4 addresses... < 1293457566 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293457669 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, 1/8th of the address space processed, about 2328 bytes output... < 1293457806 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293457890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap got desynced somehow when placing a torch high up. Garbage on map < 1293457978 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293458003 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293458094 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293458290 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION breathes < 1293458299 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted everything the professor asked for < 1293458306 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try to do more < 1293458312 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increase my odds < 1293458421 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293458755 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293458768 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293458813 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1293459607 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028037.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293459662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program I wrote compressed bitmap (4Gib) of all allocated/delegated IPv4 address ranges to 29376 bytes... < 1293459735 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293459867 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293459939 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari can you send the decompressor and the compressed file < 1293460242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1293460256 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293460278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I designed the format more for random access into compressed bitmap than to be decompressed... < 1293460328 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293460332 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-120.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293460351 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks what xz does with the data... < 1293460460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you have random access, surely decompression is just a for loop over that :) < 1293460476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari even if it's slow, do eet < 1293460515 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are faster methods to decompress that data than loop over random access... < 1293460838 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might find that data useful at some point < 1293460847 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to ban all IPs from a certain wiki < 1293460858 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can just ban every /16 block, but that's tedious < 1293460869 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of course I'd use a bot, but still < 1293460877 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel deranged < 1293460959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch source code? < 1293461005 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that kind of control over it < 1293461016 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did, I'd set the setting that blocks anons from editing < 1293461032 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally gets to use his Evil Wanda laugh in his FB status < 1293461749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, /all/ IPs? < 1293461755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that forbid everyone < 1293461762 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would forbid anonymous users < 1293461778 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't select the option to ban logged in users with those IPs < 1293461810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, tried captcha? < 1293461821 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I don't have that level of access < 1293461832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, can't you ask someone who /has/ that level of access? < 1293461844 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any such person is active < 1293461861 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't let to ban above /16 size? < 1293461888 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, nope < 1293462102 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now the data even roundtrips through compressor and decompressor I wrote... < 1293462167 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I deranged for comparing SQL injections to prank calls on The Simpsons? < 1293462660 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....CRAP < 1293462668 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My presentation doesn't have a works cited < 1293463204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it < 1293463209 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all the work I can do < 1293463215 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything else I can do < 1293463218 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to breathe < 1293463302 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293465365 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293465374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hi < 1293465384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:42:54 j-invariant: basically he's trying to replace MSE < 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:00 TeXnicard is not written entirely in TeX. It only uses TeX for the typesetting. < 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:02 knowing zzo38 it will likely not happen < 1293465459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:06 but if it does, <3 < 1293465467 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twcywesit21c.tumblr.com/ < 1293465476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: erm you have seen that TeXnicard is used by writing code in an underload-style language? :D < 1293465503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw /Enhanced/ CWEB is zzo's own version of CWEB. < 1293465544 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293465600 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1293465606 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Stackmill < 1293465621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:05 Sgeo: oh < 1293465621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24:08 so you're just an idiot < 1293465630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no no you don't understand, he has a crippling fear of deadlines! < 1293465631 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1293465635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: seen. < 1293465895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:38:47 brainf**k can be implemented in it so it seems turing-complete < 1293465899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i edited the page to correct this < 1293465912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you have implemented a /finite-tape/ version of brainfuck which only proves it is at least a finite state machine < 1293465950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: also see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Stackmill < 1293465998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:21:53 http://codepad.org/R1ydyMJ8 --> does anyone see anything wrong with this implementation of brainfuck ? < 1293466012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: as long as "quick" doesn't mean in the sense of execution speed, in which case it's going to be very slow ... < 1293466041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:30:18 It might give variable a wrong impression < 1293466051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo i'm sorry but i don't think any impression you could give would be wrong < 1293466068 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.86.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293466072 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:12 Vorpal < 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:13 about the bug < 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:21 it only happens in the best GBA emulator available, NO$GBA < 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:27 it doesn't happen on the worse emulators (VisualBoyAdvance) < 1293466141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:30:28 or the real thing < 1293466141 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I see how BCT can be implemented < 1293466147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well erm i hate to state the obvious... < 1293466150 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott it is the best emulator < 1293466157 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry but every NDS developer uses it < 1293466159 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1293466160 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not developer < 1293466161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an emulator with a bug not in the real hardware that other emulators don't have does not *sound* like the best, i'm afraid < 1293466165 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people who want to emulate the thing < 1293466183 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is the only one which can emulate almost all commercial games properly < 1293466193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry, don't buy it. I see "LOL NO$GBA IS SO K33WL" all the time but I've never seen any evidence for it < 1293466211 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is because it has a really good debugger < 1293466215 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1293466220 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can run a lot of stuff well < 1293466223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging is not to do with emulation < 1293466339 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after checking BCT < 1293466352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i read that as that the emulator may be the only one to have this particular bug, but all the others have _more_ :D < 1293466377 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure it's doable < 1293466378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: possibly ... but printf("%d",99) crashing an emulator suggests to me that it might be a widdle bit of a big bug < 1293466385 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = pop value < 1293466388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1293466406 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = if value is nonzero (1), put next input value on stack and shift up < 1293466409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: yeah i mentioned BCT because it looked to me like it would be easier < 1293466414 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's BCT in Stackmill < 1293466417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not have a working implementatino < 1293466420 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation* < 1293466422 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can prove it is possible < 1293466465 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not give up that easily < 1293466467 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293466472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will have to backport some stuff from BF algorithms < 1293466474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:29:29 I'm scared that if I describe what an SQL injection is, and don't provide a source, my professor will think I'm plagiarising or something. < 1293466487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man yeah i get punished for knowing things all the time because you're not expected to know simple things like that in university! < 1293466493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be careful even saying 2+2=4 personally < 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:14 2 mins, I get back to work < 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:19 Next paragraph etc < 1293466563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:25 1min < 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:59 --- log: ended esoteric/10.12.26 < 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:00:00 --- log: started esoteric/10.12.27 < 1293466564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:05:26 Now railing about Diaspora's piece of shit security < 1293466577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: a good less-than-five minutes of solid work i see! < 1293466592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you meant in your ... um ... i don't really want to give it the title essay < 1293466592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1293466594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am grouchy today < 1293466598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you got any kittens < 1293466599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least for 1+1=2 you can cite russell/whitehead < 1293466605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1293466616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php < 1293466617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look < 1293466620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new esolang to make!! < 1293466629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is going to be the BEST. ESOLANG. EVER < 1293466651 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Stackmill#Turing-completeness < 1293466762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i am grouchy today <-- no _i'm_ grouchy < 1293466849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that kind of thing OK < 1293466861 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293466865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you might also want BCT's top level loop and exit condition < 1293466939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, that's not very explicit... < 1293466983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan - check again, like this? < 1293466988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the exit condition might be slightly tricky. < 1293467030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you solved that part. < 1293467051 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore i've shown that using the current command set it is possible to implement BCT in my language < 1293467059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: write bf interpreter in scheme plz < 1293467064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need for silly troll language < 1293467090 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1293467096 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the **** did i port Stackmill to the GBA < 1293467104 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ran a fibonacci program on it < 1293467117 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weakness of Stackmill is a need to run a time-consuming loop to duplicate/move a number < 1293467118 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293467119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: actually it's the halting that's slightly tricky, since you have to be able to do that on every 0 instruction... < 1293467143 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do the check after the command runs < 1293467181 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push a check value on stack (0 - halt, 1 - no halt) < 1293467182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it's not the checking that's tricky, it's the actual halting... although maybe it's not that hard < 1293467192 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it'll be 0 < 1293467194 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop will terminate < 1293467197 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's 1, it will restart < 1293467201 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the beginning of the loop < 1293467204 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check value will be popped < 1293467207 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1293467255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you have to do that check after each 0 command though < 1293467264 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it will do it in the loop < 1293467272 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one run of the loop = one command parsed < 1293467273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i only know how to do a "x==[constant]" check in Stackmill < 1293467275 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd implement it < 1293467279 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knew* < 1293467343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i see, i was thinking of a compiler BCT -> Stackmill < 1293467347 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293467359 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking of an interpreter there < 1293467365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to your brainfuck example < 1293467370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input: the program, looped on and on < 1293467374 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output: nothing < 1293467381 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler may very well be impossible < 1293467385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interpreter has the disadvantage that you need to keep both the program and the data in the stack < 1293467390 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't < 1293467397 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : input: the program, looped on and on < 1293467403 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to send the program ad infinitum < 1293467410 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real-world example: glue both ends of the program tape together < 1293467420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i would not consider that a proof of TC-ness < 1293467437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too cheating < 1293467441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case it's not TC < 1293467447 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much < 1293467460 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless WAAAAAIT < 1293467462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1293467468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do this < 1293467472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[command, check][command, check] < 1293467476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] - loop < 1293467477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are not unsolvable problems. < 1293467479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 0 < 1293467484 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL the command/check loops will be ignored < 1293467487 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to the program halting < 1293467496 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1293467503 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the compiled version looks like this < 1293467506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: yeah but you need to do it a bit more subtly than that < 1293467511 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what < 1293467523 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1293467527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution works, is that not enough < 1293467533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you sometimes need to be able to go to the next command _without_ skipping it < 1293467541 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 1 < 1293467542 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't skip it < 1293467552 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will have normal program flow < 1293467561 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the check is 0 (read: stack empty) < 1293467561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if the check is 1 how do you exit the first loop? < 1293467567 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why would you have to < 1293467572 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check is 0 when the stack is empty < 1293467587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main loop would also exit as the last check executed would be a 0 < 1293467587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_because you want to run the next command_! < 1293467613 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it's "after each 0 command, halt if the stack is empty" < 1293467622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1293467626 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i do < 1293467635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does your solution do if the stack is nonempty? < 1293467640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the check will be a 1 < 1293467652 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1293467653 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1293467655 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me there < 1293467667 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, hmm < 1293467715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pop previous stack value -> command -> check -> shift up and push a 0 so it quits the loop] pop the 0 -> shift down, giving the true check value [pop -> next command... < 1293467717 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1293467721 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a way to make it work < 1293467780 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK AFTER CHECK: < 1293467785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1(data) < 1293467796 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the check was positive) < 1293467800 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK AFTER QUITTING THE LOOP: < 1293467802 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0(data)1 < 1293467806 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK BEFORE ENTERING THE NEXT LOOP: < 1293467808 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1(data) < 1293467823 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK BEFORE RUNNING THE COMMAND: < 1293467824 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(data) < 1293467837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You Know You're a Haskeller When: you write a scheme program without realising that it needs to be initialised with an infinite stream of 0s < 1293467897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay < 1293467911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fix it for me >:| < 1293467924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use set-cdr! ? >:) < 1293467935 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is complex but i believe i can pull off a BCT compiler < 1293467944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what it's called < 1293467946 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is VERY complex so i'll have to make an actual app for it < 1293467949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...hey that will actually work! < 1293467950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thanks dude < 1293467964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1293468063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm I just realised that I basically have to put my whole "interpret" procedure in the argument to H < 1293468069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since presumably it doesn't have access to the super-Turing environment < 1293468254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i think there's still a problem there < 1293468258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 1. Comments in -- style are too hard to mention cause they do not stop the eye-flow as // vertical slashes do. 2. Comments in /**/ style are too easy to enter from the right numeric keyboard, but {--} style require shift + some keys in the middle of keyboard. < 1293468258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From phisiological point of view - putting the right hand to the right for comments tells the body "i'm putting a comment", but putting {--} in some way tells the body - I still type-in the code part. < 1293468314 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about new general purpose programming language < 1293468334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: the "pop the 0" from the different loops accumulate < 1293468348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan no < 1293468365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I need Banana Scheme opinions < 1293468366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: saw that in r/programming < 1293468367 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop pops VALUE #1, does the command, pushes VALUE #1, moves it and pushes #2 < 1293468375 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the un-loop pops #2, moves VALUE #1 back < 1293468376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to use eval in this program < 1293468380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to pass an environment < 1293468385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to do (scheme-report-environment version) < 1293468389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For R5RS, version=5. < 1293468393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is it for Scheme-1? < 1293468405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scheme-report-environment 5.1)? :p < 1293468414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scheme-report-environment '5H)? < 1293468424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optional procedure: (interaction-environment) < 1293468424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This procedure returns a specifier for the environment that contains implementation-defined bindings, typically a superset of those listed in the report. The intent is that this procedure will return the environment in which the implementation would evaluate expressions dynamically typed by the user. < 1293468426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that will work! < 1293468432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: the problem isn't what happens inside the loops, but what happens between them once you decide to skip them < 1293468473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're popping a 0 in each gap < 1293468482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a swap instead might work < 1293468565 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293468578 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stuck < 1293468581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1293468588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+)) < 1293468588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme 48 heap overflow < 1293468591 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi asiekierka < 1293468591 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a problem as we are quitting the loop, right? < 1293468596 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we are halting < 1293468600 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293468601 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not care about what happens to the stack < 1293468609 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're halting only when the stack is empty < 1293468619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack will constantly return zeros when empty < 1293468620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: well you still might not want it to crash... < 1293468625 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It won't < 1293468630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh in that case it should be fine < 1293468632 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293468641 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so turing-completeness is theoretically proved < 1293468644 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not practically, thouh < 1293468646 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though* < 1293468697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it _should_ be just a cut-and-paste compilation once you found out what each part becomes < 1293468700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293468707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1293468713 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can I state that this is turing-complete < 1293468713 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1293468717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cut-and-paste/search-and-replace/ < 1293468720 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I make a practical one first < 1293468750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should make it at least as explicit as the brainfuck version is < 1293468772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now now, a mathematician can't demand full specification from others < 1293468774 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293468775 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will tomorrow < 1293468776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hypocritical! < 1293468776 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg bye < 1293468778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: just handwave it < 1293468780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it's probably TC < 1293468785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1293468804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1293468808 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elblÄ…g < 1293468849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1293468860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *prod* < 1293468863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what < 1293468873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shut up, i'm sad because scheme48 heap overflows on my program, und- OH < 1293468875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHH. I SEE. < 1293468884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about when do you plan to work on that thing? < 1293468888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thx rubber ducky < 1293468896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the wonders of the world? < 1293468899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1293468900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit busy coding right now :p < 1293468907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to turn minecraft off < 1293468917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll loot my stock a bit later to see what there is < 1293468931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+)) < 1293468931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme 48 heap overflow < 1293468933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I DONE TO YOU < 1293468936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just want to know when I can expect you there so we don't miss constantly miss each other with half a minute :P < 1293468948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll have breakfast first :p < 1293468952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: memory leak? < 1293468955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait what < 1293468969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when did you move to US or whatever < 1293468980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey shut up, ais523 has been on us timezone before and the like :) < 1293469006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan just does it discreetly < 1293469014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ... < 1293469023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think possibly scheme48 handles cyclic lists badly < 1293469032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oops < 1293469046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all that /should/ be happening here is it incrementing the first element of after (after = 0:after) < 1293469048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ('+ (interpret (cdr p) before (cons (+ (car after) 1) (cdr after)))) < 1293469052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then seeing the null is list and returning < 1293469055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((null? p) (cons before after)) < 1293469060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly it's /printing/ it that isn'tw orking < 1293469074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1293469076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try mzscheme < 1293469084 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293469143 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try Racket < 1293469146 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets shot < 1293469193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/bwipttbip$ mzscheme -if bwipttbip.sc1 < 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to MzScheme v4.2.1 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2009 PLT Scheme Inc. < 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+)) < 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: H < 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define (H x y) #t) < 1293469194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (run '(+)) < 1293469196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1293469200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: done. < 1293469201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1293469204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically that's slightly pre-Racket. < 1293469299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1293470266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The air on which Haskell programmers seem to thrive reeks of foul stench of cargo cult mathematics, something in which I don’t want to be a part." -- Quadrescence, clogging up my proggit with bullshit < 1293470271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: gtfo of my front page < 1293470359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't see that < 1293470397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you just ban him or something, he's a persistent troll with no interest in esolangs who just bothers everyone and also says "u" for "you" :{ < 1293470414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is clearly a direct attack on the secret cabal of haskellers >:) < 1293470458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dammit < 1293470469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1293470472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also beware, i am _damn_ grumpy today < 1293470477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to find a more loyal haskeller < 1293470493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT YOU JUST MADE UP THAT QUOTE < 1293470516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er what quote < 1293470551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that air and stench one < 1293470562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, that's on reddit right now. < 1293470569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/es29o/the_air_on_which_haskell_programmers_seem_to/ < 1293470588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbo1ics.com is his stupid blog which he keeps bugging everyone in here to write a post on. < 1293470595 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no you < 1293470609 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I've invited people to write things if they wish < 1293470615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banning me is so cliché it's happened like 4 times by now < 1293470620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm done bugging people about it. I just made an open offer < 1293470730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you're well on your way to becoming just as overly-dramatically acerbic as Stanislav without actually having decent opinions to back it up, i predict imminent internet fame < 1293470738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least proggit. what's the difference. < 1293470749 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u mad < 1293470773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggit is bad enough without your crap. < 1293470792 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't post it btw < 1293470798 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is .. was about to ask < 1293470803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: also considering you just mentioned IIRC /two days ago/ that you were finally learning haskell i seriously doubt you're even /close/ to competent enough to have a decent opinion on it. < 1293470811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's not let that stop us. < 1293470811 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what? < 1293470815 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, do you just accept all programming related thoughts? < 1293470818 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did I mention I was learning haskell < 1293470836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait bsmntbombdood said that < 1293470836 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i wrote a blog post about haskell like 2 months ago < 1293470836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1293470869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's too much to expect you to realise that nobody likes Num, it's a historical relic < 1293470894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:36] mauke: I'm not talking to Haskell inter- < 1293470895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preters, I'm talking to humans over the internet. < 1293470903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that [Num t => t] is valid with existential quantification. < 1293470906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hardly a nitpick. < 1293470924 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I said "forall", maybe it would! < 1293470979 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what am i saying "forall" < 1293470992 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckyouall < 1293471013 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are having a heated debate over a failure in communication. < 1293471022 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping times: 65.4ms and 1.5ms... < 1293471032 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for once i agree with Sgeo__ :) < 1293471055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: no, no we're not < 1293471060 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293471072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I'm having a non-heated shit-slinging over the fact that Quadrescence is a moron and just about every sentence in the post is either blatantly incorrect or stupid. < 1293471093 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: r u mad cuz i attacked haskell < 1293471108 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no comment about the rest of the post, but Quadrescence and the rest of the world need to figure out how to talk to eachother < 1293471109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't even /like/ haskell all that much < 1293471123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the problem is firmly Quadrescence's. < 1293471163 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In breakdowns of communication, the prolem is firmly whoever things that it's the other side's fault entirely < 1293471176 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ok, not "firmly" < 1293471204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: i'm not sure you quite understand: he did not write a post about how mauke is an idiot for being a pedant, this is one minor point in a whole gigantic, shining orb of idiocy. < 1293471205 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go back to napping now < 1293471305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: y u so mad < 1293471343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing even vaguely "mad" is mild irritation that proggit is being clogged up with another idiotic headline. the rest is just you being a moron :) < 1293471394 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programmer found it sensible. i guess he is probs an idiot too eh < 1293471439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, SOME PROGRAMMER?!?! < 1293471444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, those are some credentials there < 1293471449 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bet < 1293471461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got another programmer on line three, says VB is the best language ever and anything with esoteric in the name is a tool of the devil < 1293471463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta agree with him < 1293471468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you, satanic cocksuckers < 1293471469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293471486 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems upset < 1293471500 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293471505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided satanism is the thing for m < 1293471507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1293471537 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb elliott, master programmer of #esoteric < 1293471554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry no, i think you're forgetting: Mr. VB < 1293471621 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr VB doesn't vent about his favorite website being clogged with nonsense, he just Continues On His Way < 1293471657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses VB, yep. < 1293471663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thinks we're all going to hell. < 1293471665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice guy. < 1293471705 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very nice of you to elaborate on his opinions. perhaps you can tell me more about who he is because i am curious why he posted my non-sensical blog < 1293471714 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293471728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you see he's magical. < 1293471974 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you, master elliott < 1293471995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lord over my domain. all ~seven of us. < 1293472077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder where Deewiant is < 1293472135 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293472141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know how to merge two LVM volumes? < 1293472282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doing something deewiant, probably < 1293472471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to fix my interpreter? >:) < 1293472493 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where is it < 1293472504 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293472504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my filesystem < 1293472543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph wait why the fuck does that run out of heap < 1293472550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat < 1293472557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh. < 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (interpret p before after) < 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (eval < 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `(letrec ((interpret (lambda (p before after) ,interpret-code))) < 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (interpret ',p ',before ',after)) < 1293472567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (interaction-environment))) < 1293472577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks ',after might not like to be evaluated if after is infinite < 1293472593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (eval `',zeroes (interaction-environment)) < 1293472593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang] < 1293472594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293472636 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293472674 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1293472954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can i troll you please? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php < 1293472960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this language Turing complete or not? ;) < 1293472973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it can run any computation that brainfuck can, just so long as it halts < 1293473029 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293473035 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293473048 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck am I doing that XChat interprets as "close this tab"? < 1293473053 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293473061 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're all addicted to /index.php < 1293473066 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm gibbering mess < 1293473092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Actually, I'm just addicted to reacting to spammers that spam "Talk:foo" for ridiculous foo by creating a language named foo, so that Talk:foo cannot be reasonably protected. < 1293473094 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freezing cold outside, I haven't had a good night's sleep for... um < 1293473094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I hate the admins. < 1293473114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also all these foo languages are basically trolls against the concept of a computational class. < 1293473147 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you think of the disussion of SM-complete? < 1293473164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: To be honest I glossed over it as it didn't seem very interesting. < 1293473191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not TC, since you cannot emulate an arbitrary turing machine computation in it < 1293473208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure you can -- just so long as it halts < 1293473210 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1293473217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "emulation" requires a halting computation for the translation, naturally < 1293473222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can even sort of emulate an infinite computation < 1293473230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by running it for N steps for paramaterisable N < 1293473251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, you can trivially construct a program which is valid iff a given Turing machine computation halts, so it's /super-Turing/ and /sub-Turing/ at the same time < 1293473254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: confused yet? < 1293473303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:46:46 http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html this is it? < 1293473303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:46:51 This is the whole thing? < 1293473304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, but i believe TC requires you to be able to translate a computation which you don't know whether halts or not, and give a valid program as result < 1293473310 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1293473311 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai < 1293473321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Yes, that is the thing that made the most common opinion to be that computer trust was inherently limited. < 1293473329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For at least a decade. < 1293473366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure. but then, it is super-Turing in a way -- you can construct a program which, given an error-compliant implementation, behaves differently when given a halting turing machine program vs. a non-halting one < 1293473375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even if one of these cases is an error -- this is edging close to Kimian quines! < 1293473436 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kim Jong-Il writes quines? < 1293473444 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__ I LOL'D < 1293473447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1293473486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: what < 1293473489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1293473492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap :D < 1293473493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eek at what? < 1293473545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well your language reminds me of promise problems < 1293473590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the issue of detecting whether something is a valid problem is a completely different task to detecting what the answer is if it is < 1293473621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but consider this: < 1293473632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (p) ...run turing machine p, discard all output, print out "YAY!"...) < 1293473634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course since your language has no IO the second task is actually trivial for it < 1293473645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: given a strictly-erroring implementation, you can run this program with various inputs to determine whether the given turing machine halts < 1293473686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now imagine a simple shell script wrapper: do this. if the program halts, run it on an actual turing machine emulator. if the program does not halt, run it an infinite number of times. first telling it to execute instruction 1, then 2, etc., given the previous state < 1293473694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now obviously the infinite loop here means the wrapper is providing a lot of the TCness < 1293473697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. but then you are essentially solving the first task, which means you are not _really_ making use of only legal programs in the first place < 1293473702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1293473713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm saying that an error-conformant implementation is both:: < 1293473715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both: < 1293473718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then of course that is super-turing < 1293473724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- super-Turing (can solve halting problem for Turing machines) < 1293473731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- and sub-Turing (can't emulate all of them with valid programs) < 1293473741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be made TC by combining the first with a simple conditional infinite loop < 1293473754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr WTF IST DIS < 1293473857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also consider: a non-error-conforming implementation is TC < 1293473864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and can be implemented on a turing machine < 1293473868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just use a bf interpreter) < 1293473878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because non-halting programs will have their undefined behaviour be "run forever" :) < 1293473919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just saying, it's a promise problem and confusing the different subproblems of it will just give nonsense < 1293473932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't you think i'm /trying/ to give nonsense? < 1293473944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF COURSE NOT. THAT WOULD BE _EVIL_ < 1293473958 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1293473963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is, as i said, a troll :) < 1293474086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Chris_Pressey&diff=20610&oldid=20565 am i a bad person now < 1293474143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i already did a similar correction, as did cpressey < 1293474174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a user page < 1293474174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but not on his user page :D < 1293474193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Chris_Pressey&diff=11261&oldid=7997 oh that's okay then < 1293474194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, clearly genocidal evil madness < 1293474214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's a really tempting smart-vandal target? < 1293474216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Template:Catseye]] :D < 1293474260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1293474303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw can you delete http://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:Catseye/inner, it's been unused for ages :trollface: < 1293474460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT OF COURSE < 1293474554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well when will it be done?? < 1293474670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "WILL" < 1293474749 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never figured out the difference between "could" and "would" < 1293474753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when is the ETA on that macbook air? < 1293474771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's delivered via tiny particles in the air, you wait for them to spontaneously assemble to form a laptop < 1293474773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lighter that way < 1293474775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no packaging required < 1293474776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and more importantly: will it be beefy enough to run dwarf fortress < 1293474785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe :P < 1293474805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ETA are far too busy blowing up things in spain < 1293474806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2.1 GHz semi-recent Core 2 Duo, 4 GiB RAM, and a decent GPU but that hardly matters for Dwarf Fortress. < 1293474808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't it use text UI iirc? < 1293474828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so shouldn't you be able to get an account on bsmntbombdood's computer and play it over ssh? < 1293474829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it renders its own UI which uses sprites that are mostly DOS codepage 437 plus some extra ones (like a dwarf glyph). < 1293474835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293474837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a server for doing it over telnet/ssh, though. < 1293474844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt bsmntbombdood would do that :P < 1293474867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Curses-tileset.gif this is what dwarf fortress looks like; notice the bearded dwarves < 1293474904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it CPU bound or memory bound? < 1293474933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, memory bound is the wrong word < 1293474945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:System_requirements http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Maximizing_framerate < 1293474945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would seem to refer to memory speed < 1293474954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DF is not particularly RAM-hungry. Expect the process to allocate between 300 and 700 MB with medium regions. With 512MB you may be a bit on the short side, but 1 GB is absolutely sufficient. World Generation can eat up far more than that, but Generation will only be slower if not more RAM is available. Otherwise the influence of RAM on game speed is limited, as DF is not loading and offloading big ch < 1293474954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unks of data much." < 1293474977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1 GB for dwarf fortress or 1 GB for the entire system I wonder < 1293474985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Entire system, I think. < 1293474998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I gather that just about anything can play Dwarf Fortress if you're okay with only seeing a handful of tiles at a time. < 1293475044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CPU: AMD 7750x2 BE @ 2.7GHz < 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MBO: Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3h < 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : RAM: 4GB DDR2 800 < 1293475045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GPU: XFX GTX260 < 1293475047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Game version: 31.08 - graphics < 1293475047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : World size: Medium region (default, nonmodified) < 1293475049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Embark size: 5x5 < 1293475051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Age of fort: 6 years < 1293475053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Number of dwarves: 140 < 1293475055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Average fps: 6-14 < 1293475066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note extremely low average fps (it controls input too; apparently 5-15 fps is clumsy for text/mouse input) < 1293475067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293475084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what makes it so CPU hungry? < 1293475109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's reaaaaaaaaaally advanced. < 1293475118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, world generation basically simulates the whole world for ages. < 1293475131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedural up the wazoo. < 1293475140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... that would happen /before/ actual gameplay, no? < 1293475143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1293475149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then after that, it's just really complex nature algorithms and everything affecting everything else, from what I gather. < 1293475160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, each dwarf has its own AI (well, presumably). < 1293475163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so while annoying to wait, it is not a major issue) < 1293475201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can't really give any solid recommendations, but I can share my findings between my machines. A 3.0Ghz P4 w/ 1GB of RAM ran the new version a little slower than the old. Another machine with a dualcore 2.0Ghz processor and 2GB of RAM ran it even slower. And my main machine, a quadcore @2.3Ghz with 3.25 GB of RAM ran significantly faster than the old version." < 1293475202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in most games each create has it's own AI on some level. Otherwise all copies would do the exact same actions at a given point in time. < 1293475227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know why Minecraft is slow? < 1293475245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imagine if Notch was a crazy perfectionist who spent less time making the game fun than making it RIDICULOUSLY COMPREHENSIVE and had a magic infinite-speed computer. < 1293475251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's why DF is slow. < 1293475253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, java mostly. It is slower in the beginning when stuff hasn't been jitted. < 1293475257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. < 1293475259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he < 1293475262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh* < 1293475265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow because it's handling thousands and thousands of blocks and shit at the same time. < 1293475271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so Java doesn't help, but still. < 1293475275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for minecraft, yeah quite < 1293475282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK in Minecraft because not that much is going on at any given time. < 1293475291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, playing it locally gives lower FPS than playing SMP < 1293475297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for desktop < 1293475307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my laptop both give same (and lower) FPS < 1293475346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because my desktop has a good GPU but a somewhat dated CPU. And my laptop has a decent CPU but intel graphics < 1293475409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm optimistic about the Air's performance. < 1293475420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll probably be faster than my old iMac, which is good enough for me. :p < 1293475429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also SSD. < 1293475486 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java performance... Java is quite performant, but has some rough edges that really murder performance if hit (large switch statements and virtual method calls). < 1293475510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Switch statements being slow, who'da thunk it. < 1293475668 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently (at least the most common) JVM can't use jump tables to optimize switches. < 1293475713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can switch on strings in java. < 1293475755 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but even when switching on small integers it is slow. < 1293475777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293475811 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1293475893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some array-intensive code can be slow too (because of bounds checking)... < 1293475923 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now is time for... PINK FLOYD :F < 1293475939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which recording should I choose hmmm < 1293475983 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293475991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dark Side of the Moon is always good. < 1293476227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1293476232 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean yes < 1293476235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not now < 1293476776 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293476778 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shine on you < 1293477077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, "Wish You Were Here" is a pretty good album... < 1293477227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, skype again? < 1293477366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh. 27C3 started. < 1293477418 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1293477448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@host81-154-106-246.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293477835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mcmap failed with 19:21:23 [DIED] protocol.c:305: Unknown packet id: 0x68 < 1293477974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As we've said, you failed. < 1293477982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1293478010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rm mcmap *.o < 1293478012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: make < 1293478015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: _build/mcmap ... < 1293478018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were using the old version. < 1293478041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, screw it, I'm removing it and recloning./ < 1293478059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You just did ./mcmap. It builds into _build/mcmap. < 1293478063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./mcmap was your old build. < 1293478064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1293478118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry for not realising you'd changed the location of the executable from some vague references mixed with wrong advice. < 1293478251 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of like the presentation I made < 1293478578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, what was it on and should I care? < 1293478626 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the incredibly vague topic of "misplaced trust", which I used to cover SQL injections, XSS, games, trusting trust, and social engineering < 1293478646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I seriously cannot see anyone else on the server. < 1293478823 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293478840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guts .minecraft/bin < 1293478868 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to put food on his stomach soon < 1293478887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, eat your copies of ActiveWorlds. < 1293478894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: So, that's like writing about "formal reasoning" for a math class, then? < 1293478913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full of essential semimetals! < 1293478959 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm. I don't think it's _that_ relatively broad, but close < 1293478959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why do you keep dying? < 1293478964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some packets must be being dropped... < 1293478967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somesuch. < 1293478975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're stupid. < 1293478978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We can't see each other either. < 1293478981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's a glitch due to teleporting. < 1293478984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Known. < 1293478987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens to us all the time. < 1293478992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just don't want to reconnect because this is fun. < 1293479000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293479002 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever discover who blew up the wonders of the world? < 1293479005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have told me, rather than waiting for me to complain and then being smug. < 1293479021 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1293479038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we told you in game < 1293479042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shaves < 1293479055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not literally) < 1293479056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We /did/ tell you. Several times. < 1293479063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, oh, you mean when I was connecting and disconnecting constantly? < 1293479075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no, before that iirc < 1293479104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wasn't following the conversation; I assumed you couldn't see me but could see each other, and there was no evidence to the contrary. < 1293479163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, except what we said < 1293479228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uninstall painterly? < 1293479229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1293479230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We said we couldn't. < 1293479240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There. Is. Nothing. You. Can. Do. It. Is. A. Problem. That. Only. We. Can. Solve. Stop. Messing. With. Things. < 1293479250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a journal or book for citing Martin Pool? Is there some other algorithms? < 1293479251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because I gutted .minecraft before you told me. < 1293479261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, notch could solve it too < 1293479264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WE TOLD YOU AS SOON AS YOU ENTERED. < 1293479265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please don't just assume I'm a fool. < 1293479275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, your own fault for not reading what we said < 1293479282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we have to assume you are a fool < 1293479294 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo < 1293479296 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo thirty-eight < 1293479311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm... no, you can tell me after I notice the problem. < 1293479317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And start complaining. < 1293479319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it is because you kill Phantom_Hoover. Possibly, but not necessarily, by mistake (and/or indirectly). < 1293479343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 knows too much < 1293479352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than saying how stupid I am after missing a single comment a long time ago when I had to reconnect anyway because of an unrelated chunk error. < 1293479369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We told you while you were walking around in the actual thing, post-chunk-error. < 1293479391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Do you like my program? < 1293479434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not at all clearly; I read it as me being invisible to you and you being invisible to me, but both of you being visible to each other. < 1293479446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nope, we can both see you but nobody can see us. < 1293479465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I detonated a TNT in HHI headquarters. < 1293479470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...but nothing got hurt. < 1293479473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because I am a magician. < 1293479493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I could post scrollback from mcmap then... < 1293479504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can see how wrong you are < 1293479515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the scrollback I've just been looking at? < 1293479615 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293479687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch some DS9 today < 1293479690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1293479721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Captive Pursuit" sounds boring < 1293479760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Federation ambassador from Betazed, Lwaxana Troi, visits the station, but develops an affection for Odo. < 1293479760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1293479768 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293479775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not "Captive Pursuit". "The Forsaken") < 1293479778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course she does < 1293479801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why don't you watch DS78565398 yesterday, instead of watching DS9 today? < 1293479804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a doctor here? < 1293479836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bucket, irc medical advice < 1293479837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dammit < 1293479843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, medical advice < 1293479843 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anything else i could make the alpha key work and not really consistent with a decent product, if they didn't have methods? < 1293479881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/bucket/literal_irc%20medical%20advice.txt < 1293479925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1293479932 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm allergic to something < 1293479945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Are you allergic to you? < 1293479961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _do_ have a nutrition freak :D < 1293479968 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never happened but now sudenly i'm red and i'm shaking < 1293479972 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides that i feel good < 1293479974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reconnecting, but slow < 1293479974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, call a doctor? < 1293479975 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really strange < 1293480008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Yes, call a doctor. They can see you directly and since they are a doctor they might know better about this kind of things, too. < 1293480027 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will wait until it stops < 1293480029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, my dad is a doctor. I think I know what he'll say: "I refuse to give advice about someone I don't know" < 1293480037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I agree < 1293480041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it does not want to stop, then i will call the doc < 1293480054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yeah it will stop one way or the other *cough* < 1293480055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods elliott  < 1293480064 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P < 1293480077 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the one with skin cancer though ;f < 1293480084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1293480091 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post) < 1293480127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, i just yesterday saw a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_by_Internet < 1293480128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhmhhm < 1293480141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no accusation implied) < 1293480144 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F < 1293480149 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i will shut up < 1293480245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Captive Pursuit" sounds boring < 1293480249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You do realise you can't skip DS9 episodes. < 1293480282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they less skippable than SG-1 episodes? Because I successfully avoided a boring SG-1 episode < 1293480302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'll watch it of course < 1293480307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just wondering < 1293480307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SG-1 is basically entirely non-linear. < 1293480310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can skip every episode. < 1293480324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 is heavily linear and has many important B-plots in otherwise irrelevant episodes. < 1293480349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see more about the Dominion War dangit < 1293480429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, more skype? < 1293480443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: ASTOP TALKING TYO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET WE ARE DOEING SEIROUS 0BUSINESPK!!!!890 < 1293480484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is just down < 1293480618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll be off... < 1293480622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293480653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you still alive? < 1293480699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was that, then. < 1293480713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember kids, always call the doctor in time. < 1293480730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not actually follow his own advice much < 1293480770 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No more. < 1293480905 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Skin cancer? The almost-harmless kind or the nasty kind? < 1293480924 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293481463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Seeds are dried to a moisture content of less than 6%. The seeds are then stored in freezers at -18°C or below. Because seed DNA degrades with time, the seeds need to be periodically replanted and fresh seeds collected for another round of long-term storage." < 1293481480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1293481624 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1293482171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is computation class of Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php language? Is it the same powerful or not, than BlooP with the REDPROGRAM command added? < 1293482203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's sub-Turing, but a fully compliant interpreter can be used to solve a super-Turing problem: determining whether a Turing machine halts or not. < 1293482206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confused yet? < 1293482292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I realized that. But exactly what sub-Turing class is it? And of course a proper interpreter that gives error must be super-Turing to work properly. It is confused!! < 1293482305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very confused indeed. < 1293482321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's a rather powerful sub-Turing class, I don't think it has a name. < 1293482338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For most sub-Turing classes ST, there is a program p \in TC such that halts(p) but p \not\in ST. < 1293482351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas \forall p \in TC, halts(p) implies p \in ST. < 1293482352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, prod < 1293482359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Calling this one ST.) < 1293482390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.out.print.some.more.dots.because.java.loves.dots.man("ow!") < 1293482423 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Invent a name for it if it has no name < 1293482519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know the computational class of BlooP+REDPROGRAM? BlooP is sub-Turing, if you add REDPROGRAM command in, it will still halt, but exactly by how much does it affect its computational class? < 1293482572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sub-Turing,/sub-Turing;/ < 1293482655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know. < 1293482670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is REDPROGRAM, again? < 1293482672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to make the computational class of Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php called "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha class"? < 1293482750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: First I will define GREENPROGRAM. There is a catalog of all programs ordered by length and alphabetical order of FlooP programs. GREENPROGRAM takes the catalog program number (all numbered consecutively) and the input number. REDPROGRAM is the same but the catalog only contains programs < 1293482756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that halt for all values of their input. < 1293482792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So if GREENPROGRAMs 1 to 99 halt and 100 doesn't but 101 halts, then REDPROGRAM #100 is the GREENPROGRAM #101.) < 1293482810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can you say "REDPROGRAM f(x)+3"? < 1293482813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some function f. < 1293482814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And variable x. < 1293482861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am assuming in this variant of BlooP, that the REDPROGRAM command takes two numbers as input, which can be specified in any way you can specify numbers, just like any other function. < 1293482883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Why two numbers? < 1293482886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be one? < 1293482901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BlooP is sub-Turing, always halts; FlooP is BlooP+MU-LOOPs) < 1293482918 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Two numbers, because one is the catalog program number, the other is the input to that program. < 1293482927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293482974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Quick, is unionfs1, unionfs2 or aufs "better"? < 1293482982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no idea < 1293482992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht. < 1293483012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They're all terrible. elliottunionfs is the only choice. < 1293483027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why are they terrible. < 1293483041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, elliottunionfs would consist of me forking Gregor's cunionfs and making it usable :P < 1293483052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because they don't have elliott's magic sauce on them! < 1293483068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... I am not planning to put my "magic sauce" anywhere near a Kitten. < 1293483080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this Tomas M guy really hates unionfs and really loves aufs. < 1293483091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unionfs.org/ <-- Register a domain for open source research project X, use it to attack X! < 1293483100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not mean semen. < 1293483126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any idea about the computation class for BlooP+REDPROGRAM? < 1293483129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentally notes to never use Slax. < 1293483148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We all know what a sick, perverted furry you are now! < 1293483153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsk tsk tsk. < 1293483208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think BlooP + REDPROGRAM is superturing, no? < 1293483227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can determine if any program halts, by binary search < 1293483254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure? < 1293483258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it might seem so. Can you prove? Still, programs in BlooP+REDPROGRAM still always halt, and you have no access to GREENPROGRAM or BLUEPROGRAM. < 1293483263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: REDPROGRAM just runs a program < 1293483268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you do have access to GREENPROGRAM, you can generate it < 1293483277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a sub-turing language can enumerate all valid floop programs < 1293483291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't really distinguish two different programs which output the same thing given some input < 1293483293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't tell what program it ran < 1293483312 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But how can you match the catalog numbers between GREENPROGRAM and REDPROGRAM, especially if you cannot call GREENPROGRAM? < 1293483325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am not sure. < 1293483331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm < 1293483348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: er what is the _output_ of the REDPROGRAM function? < 1293483352 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think you cannot even call BLUEPROGRAM; there is a diagonal argument saying you cannot do so.) < 1293483385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The output of the REDPROGRAM function is a single number. (Numbers in BlooP and FlooP are natural numbers, which are unbounded.) < 1293483399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, by program zzo38 means one-argument function < 1293483401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1293483404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1293483411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're the one going on about magic sauce near a kitten. < 1293483419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I mean a function taking one number argument and one number output. < 1293483442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BUT WHO BROUGHT THE SUBJECT UP < 1293483449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is possible to encode many numbers in one number. There are multiple ways to do so.) < 1293483471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Þou hast. < 1293483480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Because they don't have elliott's magic sauce on them! < 1293483498 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it tomato sauce, or pesto sauce? < 1293483512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Þou art þe one wiþ þe mind in þe gutter. < 1293483525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or taco sauce? < 1293483546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How much more inefficient is reading/writing to a loopback device, vs. a real partition? < 1293483594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq,elliott: Look that only elliott wrote "Kitten", and pikhq wrote something else (and, in addition, did not mean semen). < 1293483742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, stowfs is some hurd only thing right? < 1293483768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite. < 1293483776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lame. < 1293483780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Though the *concept* would be fairly easy to do elsewhere. < 1293483793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's the difference between stowfs and a unionfs? < 1293483811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The stowfs automagically handles the union. < 1293483818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh, so does unionfs? < 1293483833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You drop a folder into /stow/ and its contents automagically becomes part of the union. < 1293483833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if REDPROGRAM m n is just the result of running halting program m on input n, then i don't see how to use that for anything useful < 1293483839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnionFS doesn't do that. < 1293483870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably make a userspace unionfs-alike do it in an afternoon, though. < 1293483959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just use unionfs and have a daemon watching /stow/ with gamin. < 1293483959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You would somehow have to calculate a number "m". You might do so from other known halting programs. I don't know. < 1293483973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Less elegant! < 1293483986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unionfs also stops unioning at mount points, which is really annoying and makes it unusable for a lot of purposes. e.g. a lot of the path-translation stuff in fakeroot could be avoided (and robustness improved) if you could union-mount the fakeroot directory over / before running the fakerooted command, so the changes that `make install' or whatever did landed in the fakerooted directory, but it norma < 1293483986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lly saw the original /. But this doesn't work because of the mount-point-traversal problem." < 1293483987 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1293483988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1293483994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but more elegant than stow. < 1293484011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, by far. < 1293484016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know if quining helps at all. < 1293484114 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+3 < 1293484117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm *prod < 1293484179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1293484222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you found it) < 1293484353 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wawtched the ashes fora b it < 1293484355 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo < 1293484365 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the rules < 1293484396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: What ground did they play and what scores? < 1293484406 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know < 1293484462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, what game? < 1293484473 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cricket < 1293484478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293484502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, the game that no one who isn't a fan can understand at all < 1293484518 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the rules < 1293484562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least with football, which I'm no fan of, I dislike it even, I know that the point is to get the ball into the side of the game area that isn't guarded by your own guy. Then there are various arcane stuff like "off sides" rules or whatever) < 1293484579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but cricket just looks random) < 1293484619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(random to the point of mornington crescent) < 1293484652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cricket the basically idea is that the bowler bowls the ball, the batsman should then try to hit it so that the fielders do not break the wicket. If they break the wicket, the batsman is out. Otherwise, the batsmen can run back and forth earning points, and stop when you think it is not safe. < 1293484675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, see, lots more jargon than you need to describe football < 1293484691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't understand it, I got lost halfway through) < 1293484700 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's funny because I saw all of that except the part with the guy running back and forth < 1293484708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That may be. < 1293484730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: He didn't run probably because he decided it wasn't safe to run. < 1293484748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1293484748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stowfs < 1293484749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is a special mode of unionfs. < 1293484750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--hurd wiki < 1293484751 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and also that process does not sound like it takes very long - how is the overall game so long? < 1293484780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When you step out of behind the popping crease (the popping crease is the line on the ground you have to stand behind to be safe), the fielder can throw the ball at the wicket and break it, and then you are out.) < 1293484781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm the goddamn batsman." etc. < 1293484814 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293484858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The reason the game is long is because you will often defend so that you can continue and hope to score runs later. Also, there are eleven players in a team, there must be two batsmen in play at all times, so the innings isn't finished until ten batsmen are out (unless you declare). < 1293484904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically the batsmen try to score and the fielders try to break the wicket so that the batsmen cannot score. < 1293484928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is the glass cube going? < 1293484936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, weren't you going to do it during xmas? < 1293484941 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zoo < 1293484943 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zzo38 < 1293484944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Still xmas holidays here! < 1293484959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes but *during*, it won't last forever < 1293484969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There are other rules too, but I have described the basically the way the game works. < 1293485026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I plan to spread out and build an underwater base, so I might claim a large lake if you don't < 1293485035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will need 128x128 too so... < 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls foobar < 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls -l foobar < 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 0 < 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Dec 27 21:23 x < 1293485053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:/pkg$ ls foobar < 1293485054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1293485063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may want to set udba=notify. If only it wasn't erroring on that ... < 1293485086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Did you ever notice anything in the game that I have not described? < 1293485098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw ls foobar/x worked before all that) < 1293485102 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well no, one thing was the filming < 1293485114 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they vary the speed of time quite sharply < 1293485138 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather they didn't < 1293485177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: That is just for instant replays and all of that kind of stuff so you can watch on television, it has nothing to do with the rules of the game. (If you do not like it, you might be able to go to the stadium?) < 1293485213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used aufs? < 1293485261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc that is like the single non-bugfix patch in arch kernel < 1293485266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use vanilla kernel though) < 1293485274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't answer my question :p < 1293485289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably every arch user not using a custom kernel then < 1293485301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is a module < 1293485303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1293485306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "use" < 1293485309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a filesystem. < 1293485315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293485317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a union filesystem. < 1293485320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, i doubt every arch user uses it. < 1293485325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they'd have to mount it manually < 1293485329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but if the code is loaded into the kernel then it has been used in one sense < 1293485339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1293485343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to be unhelpful? < 1293485371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes same as you are when you do not answer which lake you plan to use. Since I'm just going to pick a large one at random then for this project < 1293485376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like a douchebag < 1293485377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the one east of spawn < 1293485380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1293485395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said something I know I shouldn't have said, even though I only had good intentions < 1293485410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, this is not your diary. This is IRC. < 1293485411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: east of spawn will invoke server's wrath. < 1293485417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on how far < 1293485431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was planning the one near the TNT test < 1293485441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe one of the large one to the west < 1293485447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you rebuilding Deewiant's stuff? < 1293485456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: KITTEN WILL SHIP ONLY WITH GNUSTEP MWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHIAHAAHAHAHAAIAIDIOJASHAJKLASDJFKG;ALD JN < 1293485465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is done < 1293485471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O awesome < 1293485515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or I could make an artificial lake between my place and mth < 1293485519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1293485526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not too close. < 1293485557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I'm not sure yet. Or I could help on the cube if you start within the next few minutes (<5 minutes) < 1293485582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Err, help how? < 1293485594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, draining water, digging, stuff like that < 1293485596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP OpenSolaris -- the last System V derivative. < 1293485600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, marking out edges < 1293485603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Link me to those possible locations again? :P < 1293485607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opensolaris died? how? < 1293485613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oracle have cancelled it. < 1293485616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OpenSolaris was just one of many Sun projects acquired by the proprietary database vendor Oracle, and although several of the others (Java, OpenOffice, and MySQL) have had their fair share of headaches and battles since the acquisition, OpenSolaris is the only one to be scrapped outright. A leaked Oracle memo announced the move in September, under which upcoming "Solaris 11" releases might be availabl < 1293485616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e through a "technology partner program," but the open source version marches straight for the grave." < 1293485627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System V is now dead, dead, dead! < 1293485636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1293485642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have to find it < 1293485642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RIP OpenSolaris -- the last _free_ System V derivative. < 1293485653 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1293485657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the first, I think. < 1293485659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not that big a deal. < 1293485664 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm experimenting with SPARC machines < 1293485666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1293485701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/tmp/placement.png < 1293485706 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've recently met a team from Wroclaw's technical university that wants to build experimental, distributed OS for SPARCs < 1293485738 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they love Plan 9 < 1293485753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the previous version < 1293485757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that one is still available no < 1293485761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and could be forked or? < 1293485767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, presumably. I doubt it will be. < 1293485769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can't be forked, then it was never free < 1293485777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1293485781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hmm. That overlay makes it hard to see if there's any good mountains nearby. < 1293485788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need a mountain nearby for: (1) Entrance, and (2) Mining. < 1293485796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 2 is out; all that's near is sand. < 1293485802 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft = price wall < 1293485803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you get more stuff when mining below surface < 1293485809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but still. < 1293485811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "Price wall"? < 1293485815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty damn cheap. < 1293485829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheaper than most games < 1293485839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the final price ($20 I think) is cheaper than most games. < 1293485844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern games cost like £40 here. < 1293485857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how buggy final will be < 1293485859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably very < 1293485866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then a number of bug fixes for it) < 1293485872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adventure mode sounded fun until I read that you can't even place or remove blocks. < 1293485876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove blocks that you didn't place, sure. < 1293485881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should have to build things to get by! < 1293485887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete a circuit to open a door, say. < 1293485895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1293485924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 1 or Alt 3 ... hmm. < 1293485929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you have to check topo map to find mountains (which you don't need) < 1293485936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt 1 is slightly closer to civilisation and spawn. < 1293485956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Alt 3 has less water around it than Alt 1, right? < 1293485969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want it surrounded by water. Grr. I might have to explode some land. < 1293485972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hard to tell < 1293486014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for alt 1 I reserve the right to develop the waterfall area near it. < 1293486027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could explode the land in-between,t hough? < 1293486027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think that grown a bit since then < 1293486032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That currently blocks off alt 1 from waterfall area. < 1293486036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also the mines cover much < 1293486059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, that has the underground dock and huge lava lake area < 1293486064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tell you what. Do you know the coords of alt 1 and alt 3? < 1293486066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look at both personally. < 1293486072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm no I don't. < 1293486076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could teleport there approx < 1293486083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by map clicking) < 1293486094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That would be nice. I think it's about 10 ROUs above the ROU. < 1293486100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that map. < 1293486127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well alt 3 I been past a few times < 1293486133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt 1 I believe I gone past once < 1293486149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We both bring 256 cobbles? < 1293486160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 512 cobbles is enough for a 129x129 border at sea level. < 1293486199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, connection rest < 1293486201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset* < 1293486215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You okay bringing 256 cobbles? < 1293486244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: I've borrowed 256 cobbles on extended loan, hope you don't mind. Put some back in there. < 1293486247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will return soon enough. < 1293486253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I don't have 256 with me atm < 1293486268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How many, then? < 1293486283 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this about 256 cobbles? < 1293486286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 10 < 1293486292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was on my way when you said it < 1293486296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: minecraft :P < 1293486303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Can't you /home and //goto? < 1293486318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear PH: I've borrowed another 256. Sorry. < 1293486334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no due to lag I can't get out of /homed area (steel door) < 1293486356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you landed and parted game < 1293486359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it's annoying gathering materials? < 1293486364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chunk loading error. < 1293486372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it is. Although stone is ridiculously common so cobbles are easy. < 1293486398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if collecting stuff didn't exist, the game wouldn't be fun? < 1293486417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite resources etc < 1293486531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It'd be fun. That's what Classic was. < 1293486532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is more fun. < 1293486730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why does chess boxing exist? < 1293486869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be snow in MC < 1293486964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i would pay... 5 eur for such a game < 1293486981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because why? the "bad" graphics? < 1293486985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, come play in Active Worlds! < 1293486987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow in MC? < 1293486988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293486988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is snow in MC, you dolt. < 1293486992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC is snow-free < 1293486994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "no"? < 1293486996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's snow in it. < 1293487001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hallowed halls shall ever remain clean < 1293487016 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B133D2B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293487022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.biostatistics.ca/wp-content/themes/biostatistics/images/mc-building.jpg < 1293487043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor? < 1293487049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^MC < 1293487060 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293487078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why a pink tie made me think of him. If the building were wearing a hat that would be more sensible < 1293487092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, because the autor is already too rich and he can't code < 1293487105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unfortunately this view of the building no longer exists as they are putting a building roughly where the camera would have been) < 1293487138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have to know why the building is wearing a tie < 1293487152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's professional < 1293487158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orientation.math.uwaterloo.ca/2010/pinktie.php < 1293487209 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashes 4th test is starting now in ITV4 < 1293487256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wants a pink tie < 1293487280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293487349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Who won the toss? < 1293487381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit about the dean's tie isn't entirely accurate. There are a number of reproductions given out on special occasions < 1293487411 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the right to give them out is reserved for the dean) < 1293487414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have seen some mathNEWS stuff even though I do not live in that province. < 1293487421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, I recall < 1293487434 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I didn't know if there was a toss < 1293487446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've garble warble fashes < 1293487470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There is always a toss at the beginning of each match. That is how they decide who goes first. < 1293487494 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a coin? < 1293487517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, um < 1293487530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, a coin. < 1293487547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes that coppro is just joking around or somesuch, and is not having a stroke < 1293487561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm joking < 1293487568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't get the joke, I'm quite ashamed of you < 1293487597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly got that it wasn't serious, but what was humorous about it? < 1293487693 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it was nonsenes < 1293487709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why was coppro spouting nonsense/ < 1293487742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Whoever wins the coin toss gets to decide who goes first (one team bats while the other team fields, and then after one innings they switch). There is some strategy involved in making this decision. < 1293487763 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how can it be strategic, everyone has to have their turn < 1293487820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The strategy has to do with the conditions of the ground and of the weather. < 1293487837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not nonsense < 1293487844 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: really? < 1293487848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q="garble+warble+fashes"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 < 1293487852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They've table warble farble. < 1293487870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1293487873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1293487902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1293487903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes. There is strategy in this game involving timing, ground conditions, weather, relative abilities of the players, endurance, and other things. < 1293487934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, if the ball has bounced on the pitch a lot, it might make dents in the pitch.) < 1293487967 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that would make it harder to bowl < 1293487977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1293488041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What-the-fucks-his-name dies in that book. And in the 5th book. And in the first book. < 1293488069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if that's spoilery < 1293488076 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hey there are actually two batsmen, and they both run back and forth < 1293488111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes. That is correct. One is the striking side. If they run an odd number of times, they will have swapped positions. < 1293488145 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thiss is getting more complicated all the time < 1293488218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Slartibartfast? < 1293488225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no < 1293488228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to get more complicated all the time, but the rules have logical sense, the rules aren't just completely random. < 1293488234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: As Gregor said, the game of cricket is so complicated that the human mind can either understand it, or all other games. < 1293488235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agrajag? < 1293488241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293488253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a computer called that. < 1293488264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did Arthur kill it in a fit of rage? < 1293488304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, though it did have a habit of saying "CPU Fan Error - press F1 to continue" at boot-time. < 1293488311 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol elliott < 1293488329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how not only has Agrajag died every time to Arthur in some way, but /everything Arthur has ever eaten or caused the death of has been a reincarnation of Agrajag/ < 1293488338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The rules may be complicated, but not as much as some games. There are more complicated games. I think Quintuple Arcana is probably more complicated (in fact, so complicated that nobody has written out all the rules yet). < 1293488350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hmm, didn't remember that < 1293488376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, the sperm whale? < 1293488402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1293488428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1293488438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have this throwaway email address I use sometimes < 1293488446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, but most of those games aren't popular sports. < 1293488450 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website said it will be terminated by Dec 8; it's still there < 1293488458 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1293488480 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ball hit the edge of the field? < 1293488536 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: If the ball hits the boundary before anyone else catches it (or if someone catches it while it is outside the boundary), the batsman scores four points (or six points if it hasn't hit the ground yet). < 1293488556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can score without having to run in this case. < 1293488557 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought he wasn't supposed to get it rigpht outside < 1293488603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cricket kinda is, if you happen to have allegiance to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories, Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. < 1293488680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that relevant? < 1293488710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not very popular outside of Her Realms. < 1293488712 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how come cricket AND baseball exist in the same world? and football and soccer < 1293488733 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basketball and volleyball < 1293488743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Probably because they are different games. < 1293488764 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many games are there? < 1293488768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, next you'll say that only one of C and C++ should exist or... oh wait, there's a good argument for that < 1293488779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: There are *many* varieties of football. It just so happens American football and association football are the two most popular. < 1293488799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro hates me now < 1293488814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Likewise, there are many bat-and-ball games, baseball and cricket being the two most popular. < 1293488816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot. Even with card games, some people will make up some variant rules; with chess, there is FIDE chess but many people will make up variants; etc. < 1293488824 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crowd are making an ominous jeer < 1293488835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I can't say anything similar for basketball and volleyball, though; those are very unrelated games. < 1293488842 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear whether the batsman hit the ball or not < 1293488843 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293488846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volleyball is a net sport < 1293488847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only thing in common is the term "ball". < 1293488860 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :net sports overlap with racquet sports < 1293488868 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rugby and american football < 1293488883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes, rugby is another football game. < 1293488907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: That does sometimes happen. Sometimes they have a TV camera that they can record it and watch more accurately. But other than that it is the umpire's decision to make once someone appeals. < 1293488923 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even have a heat vision camera < 1293488924 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1293488941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :unaffiliated < 1293488942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Australian and Canadian football. See, tons of football games. < 1293488947 0 :unaffiliated!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1293488951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registered < 1293489144 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the batsman dived to get past the line before the ball with pushed against the wiket. It was close to within 1/30th of a second but he made it < 1293489206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: OK. < 1293489233 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that it is so close < 1293489262 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicket < 1293489354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course such a thing might happen sometimes. Like other things might happen sometimes, too. < 1293489363 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tennis and badmington < 1293489390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how common it is to be that close within 1/30th of a second, but of course it is possible. < 1293489398 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293489430 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I imagine things come closer as the skill of the players increases - so these playes must be very good < 1293489469 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was just random < 1293489506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I would imagine that is probably the case. It is a Test match, so it is the highest level first-class and they would have good players there. But it can happen just by random, too. < 1293489606 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does 4/283 mean, as a score> < 1293489619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1293489662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It means they have scored 283 points in 4 wickets (in this sense, a "wicket" means the play before you are out (being out is also called "losing a wicket" or "fall of wicket")). < 1293489710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can sometimes get confusing that "wicket" means two things until you are used to it, then it isn't really any more confusing than any other words meaning two things.) < 1293489725 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1293490019 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone happen to know if there is a meterology channel on here? < 1293490080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1293490094 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harm < 1293490149 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230230205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293490169 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like an opinion. Should I use Martin Pool's algorithm (but in a more generalized way)? Is there a journal or book to cite in the bibliography? < 1293490183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: down? < 1293490209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Ping. < 1293490258 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the players got hit by the ball and he wont get back up < 1293490282 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they cut away and now everything is back to normal < 1293490402 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must suck, playing with a sore knee < 1293490435 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that something which orders like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,... rather than 1,10,11,2,3,4,... ? < 1293490452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Yes. < 1293490478 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't like those but that's just because the basic algorithm is simpler, maybe some people find this easier to use or something < 1293490497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, up? < 1293490526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293490541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1293490571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Well, I am using it to make the program versatile. You can modify the S table to adjust the sorting algorithm that my program uses. < 1293491098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the correct bibliography citation to use? < 1293491708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE TO SELF BEEP BEEP BEEP: (-200, 1000) IS CUBE < 1293491880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cube? < 1293492264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason I'm scared of this episode is it reminds me of VOY < 1293492449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cube = 128x128x128 < 1293492457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass walls/floor. Lit by lava < 1293492458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lava. < 1293492485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W < 1293492486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T < 1293492487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F < 1293492488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1293492509 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft bots < 1293492513 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any? < 1293492525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a happy WTF, but still a WTF < 1293492527 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobs? < 1293492549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not deserve to get an A. < 1293492582 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots < 1293492631 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that for the class you forgot about? < 1293492635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293492835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, got bus error from mcmap < 1293492836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1293492845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I Blame Notch. < 1293492853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also not it fails to connect < 1293492861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That happens sometimes. < 1293492862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep tryin'. < 1293492866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think minecraft.net is the slow. < 1293493119 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots < 1293494313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection