< 1293235204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think my sb live card has S/PDIF < 1293235218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1293235222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably all dusty < 1293235225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The USB stick I have has one of those. There's a little piece of plastic that converts it into the usual optical S/PDIF connector: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JztQ1Y7eS._AA1500_.jpg < 1293235227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I never used that hole < 1293235246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they tend to have some plastic covers in there? < 1293235273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is S/PDIF listed in alsamixer, but I don't think I have any connector that isn't either 3.5 mm style or gameport < 1293235276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1293235290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which hardware is this? < 1293235339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sb live 5.1 < 1293235346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PCI card < 1293235358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, only the connector styles I mentioned < 1293235360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My motherboard-integrated Intel HD Audio thing does (coaxial) S/PDIF via a header on the motherboard; had to get the coax connector back-panel plate separately. I guess something similar could be done on some sound cards too. < 1293235361 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293235385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm pretty sure the card does /some/ digital output however < 1293235399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Sound_Blaster_Live!_5.1.jpg -- there's something that says "SPDIF" up there. < 1293235423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what the topmost orange connector is either, from this angle. < 1293235449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could check the back... < 1293235455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like another stereo plug in another image. < 1293235483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't tell the symbol, it is under the case metal < 1293235494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ANALOG (center and subwoofer)/DIGITAL OUT (front and rear SPDIF digital outputs) via 4-pole 3.5 mm minijack on rear bracket" says a spec sheet. < 1293235501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually another hybrid thing. < 1293235510 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1293235512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but an electrical sort? < 1293235520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4-pole" sounds like that, yes. < 1293235532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only every used green and pink (and gameport) < 1293235535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever* < 1293235693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. fizzie you should write a midi->speaker string thingy < 1293235703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can get the whole TOS on there < 1293235754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, with some strong-AI modules to understand the semantics and reconstruct the best possible rendition out of a polyphonic midi file. < 1293235843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I don't demand that < 1293235870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the speaker string syntax. Is there a spec for that? < 1293235878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sec < 1293235885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=speaker&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.1-RELEASE&format=html < 1293235889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, scroll down a bit < 1293235901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, until you see a two column bit < 1293235918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though some of the text before and after is relevant too) < 1293235958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did look quite BASICy indeed. < 1293236004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I think it is similar, with some minor changes < 1293236027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The `octave-tracking' feature and the slur mark are new." < 1293236097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The MB, MF, and X primitives of PLAY are not useful in a timesharing environment and are omitted." < 1293236101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what those did < 1293236145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MF/MB are probably "play in foreground/play in background" switches. < 1293236156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X? < 1293236171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And X defererences a pointer, basically. :p < 1293236175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDNl < 1293236179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh? < 1293236203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's followed by a string representation of a variable's address, and it goes and executes that. < 1293236216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could also consider it a subroutine call. < 1293236221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why... < 1293236236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to construct long strings that way. < 1293236245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could call PLAY several times? < 1293236269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that way you can do a hierarchical string that includes other parts several times. < 1293236274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293236275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1293236287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well not strange they don't want that, since it was done in the kernel < 1293236288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I don't really know what it's for. The example given is pretty contrived. < 1293236302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1293236359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, now I want to play monkey island on the pc speaker. I know I seen that on youtube somewhere (it is probably in ~/tmp or maybe /mnt/old-system/home/anmaster/tmp or such < 1293236412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found the MT-32 version of it < 1293236423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is awesome too < 1293236459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, that is a different version of monkey island < 1293236475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, awesome music < 1293236616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found the mt-32 one of the same game < 1293236627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I had the pc-speaker one of) < 1293236746 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1293236934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a324ykKV-7Y has a bunch of versions of the monkey island tune for the interested < 1293237047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was walking to a friend's graduation party thing, there was a dude at the local train station underpass playing the Monkey Island tune on a melodica. < 1293237110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually it turned out the "dude" (which we only noticed really briefly, as we were in a hurry to get that party) was a quasi-friend of ours, who was also at the same graduation event thing too.) < 1293237143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, we hadn't realized that and started to tell him an interesting story about someone playing the Monkey Island tune under the railway station while we passed by.) < 1293237145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one I thought of was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DLoSAb1-bc < 1293237173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1293237198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you thought it was some beggar or such? < 1293237208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think they like to be called "street musicians". < 1293237213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. < 1293237220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, though the choice of song did make us wonder. < 1293237231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, those poor comp sci students < 1293237232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "uh, it was actually I" realization was a bit awkwardly entertaining. < 1293237373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The song's a perennial favourite of everybody. I think I've seen a recording of Press Play On Tape performing it somewhere too. < 1293237388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a324ykKV-7Y has a bunch of versions of the monkey island tune for the interested < 1293237389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293237401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought MT-32 was a standalone box? < 1293237409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that card is FUCKING huge < 1293237434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LAPC-I is an MT-32 compatible card < 1293237437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They put it on an ISA card too, I think. < 1293237438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1293237441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an ISA card. < 1293237449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't take a look. < 1293237450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really that acceptable for a language to make no distinction between x(5) and x=5? < 1293237461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... are they all from the same version of monkey island? < 1293237476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was made for MT32 < 1293237478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-23* < 1293237479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1293237481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-32* < 1293237495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shouldn't sound better on more recent hardware < 1293237500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are from the same < 1293237510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then how can it sound better than MT-32? < 1293237511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as typical for games of the time, it has different versions for different cards. < 1293237525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes quite. But some of them were made /after/ monkey island iirc < 1293237528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6A0CsU3fh8 < 1293237543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you noticed the last annotation, the final one played ("CD audio quality" or whatever it was called) is from a different version < 1293237549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ones before that are from the same. < 1293237555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes quite < 1293237561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293237564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't noticed that < 1293237615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and adlib was quite decent (unlike gameblaster) though nowhere near MT-32 of course < 1293237635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First two versions sound curiously unlike. < 1293237640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah... < 1293237660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultrasound one is good, but I think the MT-32 is even better. < 1293237660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there's a very good standard for the PC beeper, of course. < 1293237673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Card looks like a full-size ISA one. < 1293237685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 256K add-on memory card of that size somewhere. < 1293237694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SB16 sounded bad < 1293237726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, dude I believe in my computer case it would be inside the harddisk bay at that size!! < 1293237818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's supposed to be *that* much difference between Adlib's OPL2 FM synthesis and SB16's OPL3; the latter just adds features. (Of course many things that play on SB16 are actually sampled stuff, I guess.) < 1293237830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If that's in the video, I'm not that far yet.) < 1293237846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the MT-32 sounds better than the SB16 < 1293237849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by far < 1293237858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that*'s not surprising. < 1293237862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1293237873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SCC-1 is nice too < 1293237894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ultrasound is really bad considering it comes after the MT-32 < 1293237919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SCC-1 is mainly crisper < 1293237937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't really think fits < 1293237947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a GUS MAX somewhere; GUS is a rather PC-demoscene-famous thing. It's not a bad piece of hardware, compared to the similar-cost SB16. < 1293237954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has some on-board memory for wavetabley stuff. < 1293237968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tracker music players could do hardware-accelerated mixing on that. < 1293237977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, but I don't really care about anything that sounds /worse/ than an MT-32 :P < 1293237991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just depends what you play with it. < 1293238018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anything designed to make use of MT-32's capabilities :P < 1293238041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pc speaker is an exception) < 1293238060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure that's a fair benchmark. < 1293238068 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293238077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In unrelated news, the new Special Edition re-orchestrated re-played soundtrack doesn't sound half bad. < 1293238079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the segment between pc speaker and MT-32 I find throughoutly boring) < 1293238091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? link? < 1293238103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that last thing in the video. < 1293238126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't it have the issue of not doing the proper transition-and-blend thingy? < 1293238132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that monkey island 2 only? < 1293238150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iMUSE" I think it was called < 1293238207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sounds possible. < 1293238216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's recorded-on-real-instruments stuff. < 1293238217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc elliott played it or something < 1293238231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, basically you got lots of CD seeking even < 1293238279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually played it. (Though I did try out that episodic what-was-it-called modern thing, which was I-guess-nice but nothing that much to, as they say, write home about.) < 1293238291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, though if recoreded in *perfect* sync (note: impossible with real instruments) you could mix the channels < 1293238308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what episodic thing? < 1293238315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales of Monkey Island. < 1293238319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale Games' thing. < 1293238344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Free wovels! Get them while they're wovel!" (Heard from a wovel salesman in the game.) < 1293238424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there were some chuckle-worthy jokes about "U Tubes". < 1293238435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... there is no excuse for that pun which doesn't even really work < 1293238449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, misread it < 1293238454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "free wolves" < 1293238456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1293238462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now it makes more sense XD < 1293238488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Telltale Games' thing. <-- never heard of that < 1293238510 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293238564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The company, or the game? < 1293238581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the phrase in the line I highlighted < 1293238590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have no idea IF it is a company or a game < 1293238611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale Games is the company, and Tales of Monkey Island is the game. < 1293238617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293238624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well neither then < 1293238669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've done episodic-style modern adventure games into existing "franchises"; that Monkey Island game, and some Sam & Max stories, and I don't know what else. < 1293238782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm should I use the FreeBSD name in the BSD license < 1293238784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or my own < 1293238789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is based on freebsd code < 1293238798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the line "The views and conclusions contained in the software and documentation are those of the authors and should not be interpreted as representing official policies, either expressed or implied, of the FreeBSD Project." < 1293238806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not plan to re-license it under GPL) < 1293238841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea? < 1293238923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293238979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll settle for something like: < 1293238981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In part) Copyright (c) 2010 Arvid Norlander. All rights reserved. < 1293238981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In part) Copyright (c) 1992-2010 The FreeBSD Project. All rights reserved. < 1293238999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "all rights reserved" amuse me) < 1293239207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/software/pcspeak.tar.xz < 1293239215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to play with the software < 1293239330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The song's a perennial favourite of everybody. I think I've seen a recording of Press Play On Tape performing it somewhere too. < 1293239342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've done an *awesome* version of it segued into LeChuck's theme. < 1293239368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The LAPC-I is an MT-32 compatible card < 1293239377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Proper compat or just one of those ones with its default soundfont? < 1293239413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can confirm that the PC speaker and Tandy ones are the same game. < 1293239432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Roland LAPC-I contains an MT-32 compatible synthesizer < 1293239449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't compare cards with the MT-32 based on one track, since the MT-32 is far more reprogrammable than any of the others. < 1293239453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> fizzie, didn't it have the issue of not doing the proper transition-and-blend thingy? < 1293239466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the CD version of MI1, but it didn't even have iMUSE; it was just slightly less smooth. < 1293239478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MI2 has never been CD-soundtracked and was the first to use iMUSE. < 1293239483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special Edition != CD rerelease. < 1293239483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did you do to that line, it only highlighted /part/ of it < 1293239489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it ended just after > < 1293239496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> fizzie, basically you got lots of CD seeking even < 1293239503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you did it again < 1293239504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was MI2 even released on CD when it came out? < 1293239507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, though if recoreded in *perfect* sync (note: impossible with real instruments) you could mix the channels < 1293239510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMUSE didn't mix any channels. < 1293239518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no longer < 1293239518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It waited until an appropriate transition point and jumped to the appropriate transition. < 1293239521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were handmade. < 1293239525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1293239539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the Special Edition theme; the main lead isn't pronounced enough. < 1293239545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Telltale Games guy on the esowiki, btw. < 1293239561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just xchat copying colour codes for some reason < 1293239574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it only did it 2 out of 3 times < 1293239578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Vorpal doesn't see annotations, re: And if you noticed the last annotation, the final one played ("CD audio quality" or whatever it was called) is from a different version < 1293239585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he uses some youtube-dl thing, not flashl. < 1293239588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flash. < 1293239596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the modes of this channel should filter colour codes < 1293239599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's based on the precise moon-phase. < 1293239605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no, annoying colours are GREAT! < 1293239606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaah < 1293239612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aaaaah? < 1293239620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (moon phase) < 1293239627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irssi shows "< elliott> HH fizzie, ..." with inverse-video Hs. < 1293239634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1293239658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you ever actually played the Monkey Island games? < 1293239671 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i luv them < 1293239675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, it is on my todo list however < 1293239691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I never really liked point and click < 1293239698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer more free form in general < 1293239714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, open world I love (ev override is very open world) < 1293239716 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 5: where is the fuel for the chainsaw? < 1293239744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is great (but short; once you've beaten it once it only takes like 2-3 hours to do), 2 is probably the best adventure game ever written, and 3 (Curse of) is excellent too (although basically just ignore-retconned 2's ending and didn't involve Ron Gilbert; it is still good, however; note that it's 640x480x8. ScummVM can play it.) 4 (Escape from) is utter terrible keyboard-controlled 3D dreck and should be avoided at all costs. < 1293239751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is the craziness of the puzzles too < 1293239752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales I haven't played yet. < 1293239756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer RPG in general < 1293239765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course you use the rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle to cross over the chasm ... < 1293239767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you, an idiot? < 1293239779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Actual spoiler.) < 1293239788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard about that example before < 1293239793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not spoiled by you < 1293239830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah I don't really enjoy exploring the combinatorial explosion of all items in all places at all times < 1293239836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what it seems like pretty much < 1293239840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1293239843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use spoilers < 1293239846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to sense a pun when one comes along. < 1293239857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The combine-X-with-Y approach only happens when you're really stuck. < 1293239871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so is " Vorpal: Of course you use the rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle to cross over the chasm ..." from a pun? < 1293239883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, it comes with the pulley. < 1293239889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a line conveniently crossing the chasm. < 1293239901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, okay, so that one isn't terribly intuitive, but it /is/ lampshaded in the actual game. :p < 1293239906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the rubber chicken? < 1293239917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the pulley, sure < 1293239920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with the pulley. < 1293239929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which seems rather weird < 1293239935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well. < 1293239940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Voodoo Lady is weird. < 1293239940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a rubber chicken with a pulley built in before < 1293239956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it... < 1293239961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a rubber chicken < 1293239964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubber ducks sure < 1293239966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not chicken < 1293239981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They serve different roles. < 1293239994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.photobucket.com/image/rubber%20chicken%20with%20a%20pulley%20in%20the%20middle/ErDracu/Pollo.jpg < 1293239996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW < 1293239998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE < 1293240003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, rubber chickens are far more floppy and less bath-toyey. < 1293240010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect for crossing chasms. < 1293240030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not science. Just... technology < 1293240037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It disproves science. < 1293240043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so how much load can it take? < 1293240057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Approximately one (1) Guybrush Threepwood./ < 1293240059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1293240072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant the real-world one < 1293240085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Approximately one (1) Guybrush Threepwood. < 1293240094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Turns out they live in a world where everything is tiny.) < 1293240109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1293240177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was Tales really released in 2009? jeez. < 1293240217 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painted with deluxe paint.. btw ;) < 1293240227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tales wasn't relatively speaking too far on the "horrible annoying puzzlery" scale, but it did have its share. (And personally I am most annoyed by those cases where I clearly know what to do, it has a reasonable probability of being the right thing, but I just can't seem to figure out how to communicate that to the game through the UI.) < 1293240255 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brushguy < 1293240285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that sucks < 1293240286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293240289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after guy.brush < 1293240299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since deluxe paint used .brush < 1293240310 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1293240357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate(TM). < 1293240364 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the first apps using thi terminology, as far as i know < 1293240369 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you still think I wasted your time? < 1293240376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is niceness value so backwards. In other words: why does *nix use an inverse of the more straight-forward concept "priority"? < 1293240380 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna buy a map? *g < 1293240383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1293240384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Everyone always wastes my time! < 1293240396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So they could use C's default initialisation to 0? :) < 1293240404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so that would work with priority too I guess. < 1293240410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suspect positive nice values came much before negative. < 1293240417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293240424 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok... < 1293240425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's nicer. < 1293240431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so they started with lower-valued priority? < 1293240445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, yes < 1293240455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you are trespassing on oerjan's territory! < 1293240520 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so is that a yes? < 1293240533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's file_not_found < 1293240542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I might want to write 4'33" for the pc speaker < 1293240611 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's called "mute button" < 1293240616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's 273 seconds. So, if ... < 1293240621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Hz does one 386 cycle take? < 1293240630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather. < 1293240637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually the time tempo to give it < 1293240641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-audible-frequency beeps were a common-ish way of doing sub-second resolution delays in some system. < 1293240644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many one-cycle instructions can you fit into one second of 386 execution? < 1293240645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to figure out* < 1293240650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got dropped from it < 1293240650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 12 MHz. < 1293240665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumablly 1/12 MHz? < 1293240671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1293240678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/(12 MHz) btw < 1293240694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right. So 83 ns for one instruction. < 1293240704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assuming it takes one cycle < 1293240735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, the tool doesn't work like that < 1293240758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, 2^23 nops on a 12 MHz 386. < 1293240764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a 1-cycle nop. < 1293240772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close to 4'33", except as a power of two. < 1293240788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... but how does that help me? < 1293240790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Man, even 386s are /fast/.) < 1293240797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you can do it without even touching the PC speaker! < 1293240805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I don't have a 386 < 1293240812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you can listen to 4'33" even if you don't have a PC speaker to listen to it with. < 1293240830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Early in production, Intel discovered a bug that could cause a system to unexpectedly halt when running 32-bit software. Not all of the processors already manufactured were affected, so Intel tested its inventory. < 1293240836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processors that were found to be bug-free were marked with a double-sigma (ΣΣ), and affected processors were marked "16 BIT S/W ONLY". These latter processors were sold as good parts, since at the time 32 bit capability was not relevant for most users. Such chips are now extremely rare." < 1293240844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so very nice. < 1293240852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where 3-core AMDs come from. < 1293240859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-core AMDs born with Down's syndrome. < 1293240862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here is the easy version: "". Note: program exits right away and it continues playing in background < 1293240876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But how will I know when to stop listening? < 1293240901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like the "only connections to IP addresses inside Finland" cheaper-rate thing our ISP used to offer. < 1293240907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use a wall clock < 1293240920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_clock_time < 1293240923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so no google for example < 1293240925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but I need a process that runs for 4'33" to do that. < 1293240930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which my example gave. < 1293240937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, so no google for example ;; I doubt Google existed then < 1293240941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293240943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1293240944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was around 1991, so no Google anyway. < 1293240953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaah THAT far back < 1293240959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: Year is purely guesswork.) < 1293240966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1991, before the dinosaurs got wiped out. < 1293240969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Jesus roamed the Earth < 1293240973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1293240982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he was long lived then < 1293240991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of we have exponential year length < 1293240999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/431306643_528c65a6b3.jpg < 1293241015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... < 1293241054 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: "Brushes can be cut from the background by using the box, freehand, or polygon selection tools. They can then be used in the same manner as any other brush or pen. This functionality is simpler to use than the "stamp" tool of Photoshop or Alpha Channels as provided in later programs. Brushes can also be rotated and scaled, even in 3D. After a brush is selected, it appears attached to the mouse cursor, < 1293241054 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : providing an exact preview of what will be drawn. This allows precise pixel positioning of brushes, unlike brushes in Photoshop CS3 and lower, which only show an outline." --wikipedia, on the amiga version of deluxe paint (1985!) [appendix] < 1293241065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh found a quickcam in a box < 1293241069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it works with linux < 1293241076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logitech quickcam express) < 1293241085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of those with a pyramid base) < 1293241095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's popular enough to probably do. < 1293241102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293241108 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i loved it *sigh < 1293241116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, loved what? < 1293241123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some googling suggests a out of kernel driver, which seems unmaintained < 1293241130 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deluxe paint < 1293241136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, never heard of it < 1293241137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quickcam-in-a-box, sounds like a trademark. < 1293241167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you were a mac guy, weren't you? (I ay misremember.) < 1293241170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This functionality is simpler to use than the "stamp" tool of Photoshop or Alpha Channels as provided in later programs." < 1293241175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, I see an issue here < 1293241198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, mostly in that it won't 1) do blending very well 2) follow where you drag the mouse < 1293241202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooh found a quickcam in a box < 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if it works with linux < 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (logitech quickcam express) < 1293241203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (one of those with a pyramid base) < 1293241207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAD ONE OF THOSE OMG. < 1293241212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such shitty quality. < 1293241216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's usb < 1293241218 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: a painting app, i remember from the amiga, with quite innovative, and impressing func. < 1293241220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes shitty quality < 1293241233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, ah, so not for retouching photos then < 1293241263 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint#Functionality < 1293241264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, careful with what you say about Deluxe Paint. < 1293241268 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry < 1293241268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ui28.gamespot.com/475/full20040105092056_2.gif <-- It produced things like this. < 1293241279 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293241281 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint vorpal < 1293241286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, good for drawing < 1293241321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the character's name derived from the file used to store his image data. Contrary to popular belief however, the original source sprite was not named "guy.brush" as the file extension used was ".bbm" and not ".brush". The file was in fact named "guybrush.bbm", the "brush" portion of the file name being included by the artist behind the character, Steve Purcell." <-- aww < 1293241323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL < 1293241409 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye :) < 1293241440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/?sound=1 ;; these are beautiful btw, colour cycling < 1293241444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(turn sound on) < 1293241463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gspca (which is in mainline kernel nowadays) supports at least some hw revisions of quickcam express. < 1293241477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh nice < 1293241484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, will try that when I recompile kernel < 1293241486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is Pull? < 1293241488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going to anyway) < 1293241494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1293241495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what? < 1293241511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is being silly. Look at the image of the game < 1293241515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1293241521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tries on ubuntu box* < 1293241523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293241530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so... what program does one use then? < 1293241552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* QuickCam Express */ < 1293241552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {USB_DEVICE(0x046d, 0x0840), .driver_info = BRIDGE_STV600 }, < 1293241565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anything? Cheese is popular for photo/video-taking, I gathe.r < 1293241567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gather. < 1293241569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can lsusb to see if it has those ids. < 1293241582 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are there any games iwth graphics like that throughout? < 1293241586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just dmesg for v4l messages about finding a new device. :p < 1293241593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fizzie nop, 0x0870 < 1293241594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: On the Amiga, I would expect so. < 1293241601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for the first id < 1293241608 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to play them < 1293241609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Perhaps none quite so beautiful,t hough; they look quite high-res. < 1293241624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could still be compatible. Or handled by something else. < 1293241631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: btw do you know about IΞ? < 1293241641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1293241645 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what is that < 1293241657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* Dexxa WebCam USB */ < 1293241658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {USB_DEVICE(0x046d, 0x0870), .driver_info = BRIDGE_STV602 }, < 1293241668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in the same list. < 1293241679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aah < 1293241684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a really awesome dependently typed lambda calculus extension that does it in a totally different way to everything else < 1293241690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: see these posts (I haven't found a better source): < 1293241694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marketing names are of course always pretty random. < 1293241699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/dependent-types-are-ridiculously-easy/ < 1293241702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/system-ig-semantics/ < 1293241708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/some-constructions-in-ixi/ < 1293241713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/dana-actual-progress/ < 1293241715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/recursive-types-in-ixi/ < 1293241721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish someone other than luke talked about it though :P < 1293241726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh you can ignore the system-ig-semantics one... < 1293241731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ig not iXi < 1293241746 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really in love with this color cycling stuff :( < 1293241764 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a game with these graphics < 1293241775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really cool because the type system is sort of, to the side < 1293241778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that would be awesome < 1293241785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm nowhere near a good enough artist to though :P < 1293241788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image quality: aieee < 1293241821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the problem is that palette cycling only works for some things < 1293241824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't do all animation withi t < 1293241831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with it < 1293241852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and also the way some of these are done you'd have very little palette left ... that is, on "authentic" hardware < 1293241868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some el-cheapo webcam which for some reason worked a lot better in Windows than in Linux for non-daylight levels. I suspect some sort of amplifier AGC thing not being handled properly. < 1293241893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: anyway you should read those posts about i\Xi, it's a really cool system < 1293241908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the posts get better as you go down :p < 1293241924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it has things like a universal set ... but is still consistent-looking < 1293241931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the universal set, I suppose < 1293242063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : im really in love with this color cycling stuff :( <--- what colour cycling? < 1293242092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes mine seems to have some issues in here too < 1293242101 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/?sound=1 < 1293242103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one i linked. < 1293242107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: requires js, best with sound turned on < 1293242160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh, cool < 1293242164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But there's also a case to be made that we all *really really suck* at < 1293242164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game we joined under a horridly stupid misunderstanding of what it < 1293242165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was all about, and that this is actually still the first era." -- teucer, talking at the end of B's supposed 7th (I think) era < 1293242165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where does the cycling come into it < 1293242173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's done entirely by changing the entries in a palette table < 1293242177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual pixel values stay the same < 1293242182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just mapped to different RGBs with the palette table < 1293242190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is how you did it on actual hardware, very common) < 1293242204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they change it midway through or such? < 1293242212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it changes every frame < 1293242215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293242216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what makes it look like it's animated < 1293242220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never touch the actual image < 1293242226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the palette < 1293242233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmatism is Agora's way of ensuring stability. B's is emergencies - < 1293242249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if things are breaking down, we have an emergency." < 1293242256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if doing it through the middle of a refresh you could get more colours maybe < 1293242268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly. That would be a bitch though. :p < 1293242274 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As for the present situation with the 2E issue, I'm gonna do what we < 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always do: enumerate the Woobleverses and try to recombine and/or < 1293242287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destroy as many as possible." < 1293242291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, B, what do you wanna do tonight? < 1293242306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing we do every night, players -- try to figure out a consistent gamestate! < 1293242324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTERNATIVELY < 1293242331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing we do every night, players -- have an Emergency! < 1293242411 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's good about that XI thing? < 1293242412 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293242420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's just cool :P < 1293242425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i think it's more elegant than regular type systems < 1293242429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: since you don't need the concept of a type < 1293242431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have predicates < 1293242437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of "more integrated" < 1293242511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you watch youtube in the browser < 1293242512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293242523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so, does sound and video sync properly for you? < 1293242554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, and yes. It didn't use to because of no native x86-64 player, but it works now. < 1293242567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm using the native x86-64 Flash.) < 1293242573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I thought there wasn't a native one currently? < 1293242592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is, I don't think it's totally "final" though, but Debian's package uses it... at least on squeeze < 1293242600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293242614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I get perfect sync in mplayer btw < 1293242622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's hardly surprising. < 1293242626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1293242632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I have for the past years < 1293242644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't use Linux the past years. < 1293242652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1293242653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In OS X, btw, everything syncs up perfectly, but Flash likes to take 100% of the CPU. < 1293242664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, incidentally, not planning to run Flash on my new laptop. :p < 1293242667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it under linux (take 100%?) < 1293242673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1293242678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adobe just really hate Steve Jobs. < 1293242689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume you will use linux on that air? < 1293242711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to dual-boot it. I can't throw away OS X because of EFI updates and, well, it is nice in some ways. < 1293242728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm gonna stick Ubuntu on it. :p < 1293242748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how much Kitten will like such foreign hardware. < 1293242751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, without or with flash? < 1293242763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :p < 1293242763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, couldn't you make kitten support it? < 1293242778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but even Ubuntu's support was flaky as of a year or two ago. < 1293242781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For Macs.) < 1293242784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, elilo? < 1293242790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody uses elilo :p < 1293242790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or grub2? < 1293242796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2 wasn't stable then. < 1293242810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, people used elilo when grub2 didn't yet exist iirc < 1293242937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS emulation is the most common thing to do, I think < 1293242939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think. < 1293242942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that's automatic. < 1293242973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bootcamp? < 1293242978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1293242998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also iirc it works well with freebsd < 1293243000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EFI that is) < 1293243009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Boot Camp is just the marketing name for (1) an EFI update that added BIOS emulation, and (2) a tool that partitions your drive for you then reboots. < 1293243015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) is the important thing here. < 1293243045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, so how does EFI know if you want BIOS emulation for a given partition? < 1293243075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It ... doesn't; it just starts emulatin' that thar BIOS if it looks like the bootloader wants a BIOS. I'm not sure how it works. Maybe EFI has different boot sectors. < 1293243124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume you still have to deal with GUID partition tables? < 1293243135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, "deal"; (GNU) fdisk supports them. < 1293243139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or was it GNU?) < 1293243143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the kernel needs to support it < 1293243156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think parted handles it too btw < 1293243163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I meant parted. < 1293243182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is parted gnu? < 1293243233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1293243236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1293243241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but... it is good? < 1293243251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't go that far! < 1293243261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it actually is < 1293243274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with gparted it is a bliss compared to fdisk < 1293243283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like fdisk. < 1293243288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it is tricky to edit partition type manually from gparted < 1293243289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands are shorter. :p < 1293243291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that lacks < 1293243297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about from parted < 1293243324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I ended up having to use fdisk to touch up the partition types afterwards a few times < 1293243399 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293243449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZXNVHVfhc The excellent Press Play On Tape Monkey Island theme / LeChuck's theme thing. < 1293243548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, decent performance < 1293243567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LeChuck part is better IMO. < 1293243575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but not same as the intro melody iirc? < 1293243576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, LeChuck's theme is /really/ catchy. < 1293243580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some minor variations < 1293243580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293243583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed not; it changes at 1 minutes something. < 1293243601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well even before that < 1293243613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, all that's the actual theme. < 1293243619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1293243635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer monkey island 2 theme personally < 1293243652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I linked gets rather metal at the end. :p < 1293243662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah.... < 1293243668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it does that in the game? < 1293243675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ... but it totally should. < 1293243681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the game songs loop cleanly. :p < 1293243692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wouldn't it be anachronistic? < 1293243738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Almost everything in MI2 is anachronistic. Observe: http://www.mrbillsadventureland.com/reviews/m-n/monkeyR/stans1.jpg < 1293243744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have to say I prefer the game theme song (even discarding the metal bit) < 1293243747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also "Ask me about LOOM(tm).") < 1293243783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1293243786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LOOM? < 1293243790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game. < 1293243800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a guy who gives you a sales pitch for it in the SCUMM Bar. < 1293243813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SCUMM would also count as an anachronism, except it can sort of pass as not being one.) < 1293243959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUMM not being the VM? < 1293244102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SCUMM = Script Creation Utility for Maniac Mansion, the engine used for Maniac Mansion and then the Monkey Island games. < 1293244106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with every other LucasArts adventure game. < 1293244117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ScummVM is just a program that runs SCUMM games... along with several other engines, but :P < 1293244236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Along with every other LucasArts adventure game. <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrimE < 1293244264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, up to then. < 1293244272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite so < 1293244272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, only one good GrimE game was ever released. < 1293244279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1293244284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which one? < 1293244285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grim Fandango; the only other was Escape from Monkey Island, which was beyond terrible.) < 1293244306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grim Fandango is probably the #1 or #2 best adventure game ever, though -- and that's *despite* the keyboard-arrow-button controls. < 1293244313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what came after GrimE? < 1293244314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are *terrible*, and yet it still comes out on top for being just that good. < 1293244320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing; LucasArts stopped making adventure games. < 1293244327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telltale have their own thing, but that's years later. < 1293244330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293244345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LucasArts pretty much just do Star Wars games... well, until the two Special Edition rereleases of Monkey Island. < 1293244421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, how do you move XChat tabs. Eurgh. < 1293244428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get #esoteric back in its rightful place. < 1293244469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I use xchat I use the tree list view < 1293244473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sorted by name < 1293244499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, I'm using tabs. < 1293244606 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293244697 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://coq.pastebin.com/sjjga8Uj < 1293244739 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a nice way to bootstrap, just set up enough machinary so that you can automatically prove equations - then start developing the theory < 1293244757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293244775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1293244775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section PublicService. < 1293244780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: make this "Section Socialism." < 1293244782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1293244785 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1293244790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that looks much nicer < 1293244799 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a lot more effective if it took equations like fg = id into account (rather than just solving associativity) HINT HINT elliott < 1293244827 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just saying that because I don't know how to implement it :/ < 1293244870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may switch to Pigdin from Digsby < 1293244872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you think *I* know? i'm an amateur :D < 1293244873 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: look at line 314 though. I need to prove a complicated equation, so I name the symbolic category - ask it for the proof, then functor map it into MY category < 1293244904 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes the proof so much easier < 1293244910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it looks awesome < 1293244914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn category theory properly < 1293244919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Features I need: To know when a particular person goes online < 1293244929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more importantly right now, a log of when everyone goes on and offline < 1293244936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Features I need: To know when a particular person goes online < 1293244938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, Pidgin does that ... < 1293244940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit late for that now < 1293244948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And more importantly right now, a log of when everyone goes on and offline < 1293244949 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is whatt I am using mostly http://www.scss.tcd.ie/Edsko.de.Vries/ct/catsters/linear.php < 1293244950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know. Reread what I wrote < 1293244953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it might do th-- why do you want that. < 1293244959 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but programming it helps a LOT < 1293244989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend's gf is worried about him, he was supposed to meet up with her, asked when I last spoke with him < 1293245010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do you mean on irc? < 1293245017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, MSN < 1293245018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody uses IRC. < 1293245020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293245035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... your statement is absurd given the medium of it's transmission < 1293245052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know what I mean, though. < 1293245066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one non-tech savey < 1293245077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(% typos) < 1293245086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, some tech morons manage to get on sometimes < 1293245121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, rare though < 1293245131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in channels like this < 1293245134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is another thing < 1293245171 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right now I can automatically prove all equations of the form f(g(1h)1)(i(j1)1)k = (f1g)((1(h1))(il))k (for example) because they both get reduced to f(g(h(i(j(k1))))) < 1293245199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is really awesome ... can coq even do that normally? < 1293245205 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it would be useful to be able to add reductions like pq --> 1 so that it could prove stuff like pp1qq = 1 < 1293245233 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you can do it without category theory, but it's the "same thing" really < 1293245242 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to program it of course < 1293245257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: but it would be useful to be able to add reductions like pq --> 1 so that it could prove stuff like pp1qq = 1 < 1293245264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just like, add that as an equality theorem < 1293245269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eliminate for equality in the tactics? < 1293245270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalising < 1293245319 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I do now: have to use tactics for each rewrite (that includes working your way into the middle of a deep expression you want to rewrite it), what I mean is the automatic equation prover should be able to take these sort of equations into account too < 1293245342 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proof like (fg)(hk) = f((gh)k) needs like 40 rewrites or something < 1293245394 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1293245417 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N.B. this is only difficult because "=" is an arbitrary equivalence relation, proving this stuff is really easy if it's actual equality) < 1293245431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you reread my line? < 1293245435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1293245446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: put a "do_common_elimination" thing at the start and end of every tactic < 1293245450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's "automatic" most of the time < 1293245470 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't implement do_common_elimination! that's too difficult < 1293245480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well you can eliminate equality as a tactic, right> < 1293245481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1293245484 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293245485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make that do_common_elimination for now < 1293245486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and expand it later < 1293245487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right? < 1293245490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh. what can you do? < 1293245493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**can* < 1293245592 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see http://coq.pastebin.com/sjjga8Uj line 72. That says that if f = f' then fg = f'g.. you have to apply it manually if you want to prove something like (jh)k = 1k given jk = 1 < 1293245599 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean jh = 1 < 1293245772 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293245846 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is a huge hassle... but now I can just state an equation in the symbolic category, which then gets proved automatically.. and I just map the equation back into my category! < 1293245862 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293245956 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess the genenral theory of typed equations would be decidible though? < 1293245979 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no you can encode the word problem can't you... < 1293245984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is awesome < 1293246000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hmm can you do language syntax extensions in coq? < 1293246003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, not as expressions < 1293246008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually defining things like "Record x := y" < 1293246021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: if not, write a preprocessor for using coq with categories :) < 1293246024 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to hack into the ocaml stuff to do that < 1293246028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like "Category blah ..." < 1293246033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do a preprocessor, way easier than hacking ocaml < 1293246044 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it would be easier to just make a new programming language that checks with Coq to see that everything checks out < 1293246058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: are you sure? this way you get tactics for free < 1293246071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: a preprocessor just has to transform some half-assedly parsed text into Coq boilerplate :P < 1293246074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for defining a category or whatever < 1293246080 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah thats true < 1293246094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you can even shout it CATEGORY to show that it's not going to be parsed decently :P < 1293246151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: this is really cool though < 1293246162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: hey is Lam a category? for lambda calculus < 1293246163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hask is < 1293246168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LC doesn't really have types < 1293246169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess not < 1293246174 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I feel like with this I might be able to speed up a bit < 1293246179 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293246220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1293246361 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one category I really want to get defined is one where objects are prolog terms and maps are substitutions < 1293246361 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1293246398 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so e.g. {X|-->e(Y,k)} : f(X,g(X)) ---> f(e(Y,k),g(e(Y,k))) < 1293246479 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293246492 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1293246495 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a book that shows how to implement unification on it < 1293246544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that is awesome. do that :D < 1293246603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what about CHR? < 1293246687 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is jsut syntax stuff < 1293246692 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual execution < 1293246879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293246882 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293246885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about chr < 1293246911 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~david/categories/programs/ < 1293246920 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing ths stuff once I get the scene set < 1293246955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~david/categories/programs/x.cat huh what is this, category theory in ML? < 1293246982 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293247159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do the Hask category next :D < 1293247215 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way lol < 1293247219 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it < 1293247229 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know wha the Hask is < 1293247247 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can define simple data types using initiality, though - that needs to be tested out < 1293247271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Hask is the category of Haskell types < 1293247276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :category-extras uses it :) < 1293247431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so to implement Hask you need to implement Haskell's type system... and I think probably most of the values too :P < 1293247448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/category-extras/0.53.5/doc/html/Control-Category-Hask.html < 1293247451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Make it clearer when we are dealing with the category (->) that we mean the category of haskell types via its Hom bifunctor (->) < 1293247648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any opinions on lambda Prolog? < 1293247754 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1293247761 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it < 1293247835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: any interesting insights, i guess < 1293247990 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293248093 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293248345 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going off to tell children that Santa is coming to a town near them, but will only visit their house if they're asleep. Anything else I should tell them? < 1293248393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Punching trees gives me wood" < 1293248440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.levelupstudios.com/punching-trees-gives-me-wood < 1293248526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "I killed your parents." < 1293248564 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *young, impressionable children* < 1293248578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMEMBER ME < 1293248604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "I killed your parents... while they slept. If you sleep... well, who knows what could happen?" < 1293248609 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell them that Santa only exists because people beleive in it, and that they should be very careful not to beleive in anything BAD incase it becomes real. And then make up a scary story about this happening in the past with a terrible monster < 1293248620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, I hate you. < 1293248624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course... Santa only brings presents to those who sleep." < 1293248630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "So, you know... it's your decision..." < 1293248681 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you realize that their parents are standing right next to them, and the call is probably on speakerphone? < 1293248693 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: whuy < 1293248709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "The reason why your parents seem to be next to you is ... they're replaced with duplicates." < 1293248714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "And they want your lungs..." < 1293248733 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I can get this all in before they hang up < 1293248743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: practice talking REALLY QUICKLY < 1293248749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, when I was a little kid, I read a book about the power of wishes. Being a kid, I believed it. < 1293248763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish I never read that book < 1293248768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: note -- Sgeo is crazy < 1293248768 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1293248813 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, the people sitting next to *me* will overhear and pull we away from the phone < 1293248822 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/we/me/ < 1293248833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: wrestle with bears to practice your self-defence skills < 1293248852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is this phone conversation that you can talk about it right now? < 1293248857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is just getting more and more insane. < 1293248863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "Santa loves you... but he has a secret. If you swap around two letters in his name... it becomes Satan." < 1293248867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: [whisper] "Behind you." < 1293248888 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's Norad tracks Santa, and my shift is in an hour < 1293248898 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's more like it < 1293248904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1293248931 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why propagate lying to little kids? < 1293248939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1293248945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Santa is EVIL CHRISTIAN LIES < 1293249006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's been any studies on how being taught that Santa is real or not as a kid affects the kid < 1293249046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1293249103 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293249104 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know from experience? < 1293249153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: From what I know of Sgeo finding out Santa wasn't real traumatised him and caused him to dedicate his life to overcoming the evil lies of Santa or something, so I hardly find the topic worth discussing *shrug* < 1293249190 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone seen the new Tron? < 1293249191 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293249207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I < 1293249208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, no < 1293249222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I may have exaggerated slightly. < 1293249232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was raised Jewish < 1293249279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely. < 1293249281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jewish Santa. < 1293249644 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how did you get to be so insane? < 1293249716 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the new TRON good? < 1293249777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF DRUGS* < 1293249778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lies < 1293249796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: The soundtrack is good (Daft Punk), dunno about the film :-P < 1293249856 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random google/twitter/reddit link: http://mimeti.ca/journal/?p=1481 < 1293249957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Tagged Christianity, Gnu, Jeff Bridges as Richard Stallman, root access, Sun Microsystems, Tron: Legacy" < 1293249959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ first tag < 1293249964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure that out :D < 1293250214 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293250265 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293250299 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a post carefully designed to be so obscure that elliott can't understand it < 1293250316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's christianity because of sacrifice son i think < 1293250318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK < 1293250318 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293250390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Count the seconds it takes to stop thinking about this sentence. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293250411 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 < 1293250414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh :D < 1293250423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS CHRISTMAS AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293250428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's Christianity because it is Christmas, I think. < 1293250443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has nothing to do with tron < 1293250446 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS SECULAR CHRISTMAS AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293250512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "The sillier you are to the batsman, the closer you are." a confusing topic? (Probably it is because I switched a few words around) < 1293250569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P < 1293250584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's right sidebar has baubles < 1293250633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :IT IS PAGAN YULE AND SO WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY CONFUSING TOPICS | HAPPY TWO DAYS AFTER FESTIVUS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1293250662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "proper" way is "The closer you are to the batsman, the sillier you are." (but of course it is not completely proper either) < 1293250667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now the new topic message is OK. < 1293250680 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make Yule as well as Christmas, now!! < 1293250681 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that cricket? < 1293250687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1293250689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: What do *you* think? < 1293250703 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see baubles < 1293250711 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide because I find it odd that "sillier" is a cricket concept < 1293250746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: "Sillier" isn't really a cricket concept. But the fielders standing very close to the striking batsman are said to be in the "silly" position. < 1293250768 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1293250784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1293250786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=christmas&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a < 1293250789 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try watching cricket next time it's on TV < 1293250792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only for "christmas" < 1293250799 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ifeel like I am mssing out < 1293250806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think they say that the ones closer are "sillier", though.) < 1293250831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: don't worry, IIRC zzo38 says he has never watched a game of cricket < 1293250842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so obviously you can reach this level of enjoyment without ever playing it or seeing it played < 1293250862 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293250869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are correct, I don't even know what channel it is on. (Or if it is on any channel in where I am, at all.) < 1293250882 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are a fan of cricket without having seen any games? < 1293250882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: so watching it is completely superfluous! < 1293250887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, isn't it great :D < 1293250890 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this idea < 1293250903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to be a fan of, uhh < 1293250908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :american football < 1293250913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna buy ALL the rulebooks < 1293250920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark the superbowl in my calender < 1293250923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna watch it though < 1293250934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calendar < 1293250948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had time, and I know what channel, I might watch a Test match. < 1293250963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about when they go for the real thing?! < 1293250976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What real thing? < 1293250984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-Test match! < 1293250992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insane asylums: Where the sane go insane < 1293250994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1293250998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That isn't what Test match means. < 1293251006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! < 1293251018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't worry, your stay will be peaceful. < 1293251045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test match means the long game, with simpler rules but more strategy. < 1293251113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even realise it was festivus :( < 1293251127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's festivus? < 1293251156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus < 1293251158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: For the rest of us. < 1293251164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Festivus" was a term used by the 2000 Baltimore Ravens of the National Football League (NFL) and their fans to denote the NFL Playoffs. During the season, Ravens head coach Brian Billick, wanting his players to focus on every game, banned the word "playoffs." Players substituted the term "festivus" for playoffs and "Festivus Maximus" for the Super Bowl. The Ravens eventually won the 2001 Festivus Ma < 1293251164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ximus, Super Bowl XXXV.]] < 1293251171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when Wikipedia humours other people's jokes for a sentence < 1293251178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Ravens eventually won the 2001 Festivus Maximus" < 1293251199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# In 2007, in a commercialization of the holiday, the first Festivus Pole Lot opened [20] in downtown Milwaukee.]] oh the irony < 1293251246 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish they would play Seinnfeld on TV < 1293251266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they do ... on one of Sky's 7 billion channels < 1293251299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here. < 1293251325 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293251433 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293252120 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293252152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1293252205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293252261 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-54.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293252432 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293252518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if elliott realizes I often rail against things that haven't affected me personally. I am utterly against faith healing, although no one I know has fallen for that BS. I am against thinking that vaccinations cause autism. < 1293252520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc. < 1293252560 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293252950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of what kind of algorithms and so on to use in TeXnicard for plurals and other word forms. < 1293253064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a list of patterns such as "]:1:s" and so on, but what do with other word forms? < 1293253171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am against drunk driving, texting while driving, and tired driving, but that might not be the best example -- I haven't learned to drive yet, and I have fears < 1293253207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't learn to drive and never plan to. I don't want to have driving license, please. < 1293253294 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1293253547 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293253697 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293254713 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293254812 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293255822 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293255891 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293255975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely gets offended at "Rides the short bus" < 1293256908 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293257005 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293257130 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293257170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1293257328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293257396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I love it when Wikipedia humours other people's jokes for a sentence < 1293257512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Smith#Family_and_early_life. actually it looks sillier now than when i last saw it. < 1293257609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an edit from yesterday though, so will probably be reverted < 1293257624 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should leave it :P < 1293257655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it wasn't _entirely_ serious before, it just that someone yesterday made it ungrammatical < 1293257874 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin.ca is down < 1293257883 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a non-suck file upload site these days? < 1293258012 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293258092 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293258192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1293258229 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. it does suck that it's down < 1293258232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a recommendation < 1293259091 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293259255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293260203 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293260371 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293260535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry Christmas! < 1293260550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mêri kurisumasu!) < 1293260565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mêri/merî/ < 1293260660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry christmas < 1293260682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chews som dried fish < 1293260684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some < 1293260795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How Norwegian of you. < 1293260857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a norwegian specialty, although really i think it's mostly sold to tourists these days :D < 1293260975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stockfish it's called in english, according to the bag < 1293261026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, dried haddock < 1293261043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it. It just really seemed to me that dried fish would be something exceptionally Norwegian for some reason. < 1293261056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1293261084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also exported in large amounts to southern europe and (the worst quality) africa < 1293261220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't think they usually eat it without further preparation < 1293261277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beside oil, gas, and income from the merchant fleet, stockfish is Norway's longest sustained export commodity, and the socioeconomically most profitable export over the centuries. < 1293261287 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293261404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ... and it's of course the pre-stage to lutefisk! < 1293261438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, so it's a traditional part of the traditional penance! < 1293261438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293261439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1293261447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D < 1293261518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave  < 1293261611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After sorting by quality, most of the stockfish is exported to Portugal, Italy and Croatia. In Norway and Iceland, the stockfish is mostly used as a snack and for lutefisk production. In Italy and Portugal, the fish (called stoccafisso) is soaked and used in various courses, and is viewed as a delicacy. < 1293261664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: According to Wikipedia, "Lutefisk sold in North America may also be cooked in a microwave oven." < 1293261674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because here in AMERICA we disbelieve in proper cooking! < 1293261678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1293261716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the package had no instructions for microwaving, unlike basically all the other ready-meals < 1293261779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amuses me that lutefisk is more commonly eaten in the US than in Norway... < 1293261802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(largely courtesy of Scandinavian immigrants up north) < 1293261805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. well iirc there are more people of norwegian ancestry in the US than in norway < 1293261821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1293261895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Perhaps I should actually try lutefisk. < 1293261902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you guys disbelieve in proper cooking, what do the Texans do? < 1293261922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes they put everything on the barbecue < 1293261936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not only. But stereotypically, yes. < 1293261958 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, there you would be mistaken < 1293261966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Texans are actually aware of another cooking method < 1293261972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep frying! < 1293261976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh how they love it. < 1293261990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little too much, if you know what I mean < 1293261990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1293262032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to introduce you to "chicken-fried steak". < 1293262040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has vaguely heardread on reddit about deep fried bacon < 1293262040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a *deep fried steak*. < 1293262070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's actually fairly typical in the South. < 1293262096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and served with gravy. < 1293262107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is mandatory. < 1293262144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a spherical texan in vacuum... < 1293262165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the name comes because it's made very similarly to fried chicken. Another typical food.) < 1293262170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also delicious.) < 1293262452 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293262598 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293262627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293262694 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293263598 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293263719 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293263999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1293264000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1293264708 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293264769 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.54.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293264827 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293265849 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293265967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293266952 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293267014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293267046 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-192.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293267071 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293267216 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1293268067 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293268151 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293269149 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293269256 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293270252 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293270425 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293271424 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293271532 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293272099 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42d84.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293272530 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293272731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293273650 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293273833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293273875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1293274052 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-34-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293274062 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi < 1293274098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry I guess < 1293274107 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is xmas here tho < 1293274159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, well, it's the 25th here, but only in Scandinavia (as far as I know) does the celebration take place on the proper day, the 24th < 1293274173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1293274223 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1293274230 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i pmed u < 1293274851 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293274998 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293275078 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293276012 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293276086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone happens to know if handlers registered with atexit() are called on ctrl-c? < 1293276100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293276111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if I need a signal handler < 1293276201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the answer is no < 1293276241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signal handlers it is then < 1293277096 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293277187 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293278185 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231048068.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293278582 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293278634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are only called on normal exit. < 1293278649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for signal-caused termination. < 1293279351 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293279398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1293279418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know if calling complex stuff in a signal handler is safe if you exit at the end? < 1293279442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, basically I just want to stop any sound generation in the beeper program if it is ctrl-ced < 1293279442 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293279456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I need a ioctl, then exit() < 1293279459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1293279467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure that is allowed in signal handlers < 1293279536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure. But perhaps there were some relaxations of the rules if the signal handler doesn't exist. < 1293279576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I thought so, but I can't find any mention of it < 1293279594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses' signal handlers do manage the terminal cleanup (incl. raw → cooked input flip) on signals, so it must be possible. < 1293279602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293279843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1293279854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcsetattr is in fact in the list of signal-safe functions, so they can call that. < 1293279856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mask off all signals, so that should not be an issue at least < 1293279858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, ioctl is not. < 1293279862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah < 1293279924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is because ioctl seems to be the sort of "catch-all" function of doing everything that doesn't fit anywhere else. < 1293279947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list does include all kinds of IO stuff. < 1293279953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293279973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I guess I need a volatile sig_atomic_t then < 1293279997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is that solution. Your sleeps should be interrupted by the signal anyway, I guess. < 1293280037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes quite. But what if someone hits ctrl-c when it isn't sleeping, sure not likely, but it could happen < 1293280037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be "safe enough" to risk, though. And of course there's not much you can do if you get SIGKILL'd during a beep. < 1293280047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I can't keep it off the "fast path" < 1293280053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1293280054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1293280101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could sig-mask everything during the call to ioctl(); I think the only thing that's likely to break is if you call your beep-ioctl() while in the middle of another beep-ioctl() call. < 1293280104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh wait, init can (and afaik does) ignore kill. You could ptrace init (hm does that actually work?) and inject the beeping code into it. < 1293280105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1293280131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean sigmask while calling it in the signal handler? < 1293280143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in the app side. < 1293280175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would that help, the ioctl is just "start playing note at this frequency", then I have to sleep and do another ioctl to stop it playing < 1293280176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does sigblock just ignore it, instead of keeping it pending? I haven't really done much messing with signals. < 1293280209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you mean like that < 1293280210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm < 1293280231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess blocking does mean actual ignoring. < 1293280240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293280244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if there was some way of keeping the signal in the pending state until it's safe to handle. < 1293280285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it actually does work the way I think it would, I think. < 1293280288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the action associated with a blocked signal is anything other than to ignore the signal, and if that signal is generated for the thread, the signal shall remain pending until it is unblocked, --" < 1293280310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293280322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could hopefully that way make sure the signal is handled when you're safely (for some values of safe) outside the ioctl. < 1293280375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you want to be literal with the spec, just avoiding the in-ioctl call-ioctl case doesn't make it fully proper. < 1293280410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1293280413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could fork(), let the child handle the beeping (and ^C-from-terminal reception), and have the parent issue an extra "stop with the beep" ioctl whenever the child terminates. < 1293280428 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293280455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't help if someone deliberately sends a SIGTERM (or some other) first to the parent, then to the child. < 1293280539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, except if you add in the parent a signal handler to kill+wait the child first, and only then stop the beeping.) < 1293280571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293280600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this seems a lot more complex :P < 1293280622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the sig_atomic_t now < 1293280661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also debugging this /does/ make me nervous. sudo valgrind feels so.... scary < 1293280820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For debugging, could you just temporarily sudo chown the device node? (Or does it test against something else?) < 1293281018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know why kernel code seems to shun floating point? < 1293281051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, the device node is /dev/console, which is as far as I know a bit special, in that it depends on the current vt < 1293281061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what messing with chown there would do < 1293281074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly it would mess something up < 1293281144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could however run it from a non-X vt < 1293281152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should change permissions. < 1293281175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually it doesn't < 1293281185 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293281227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating point doesn't exist everywhere, which might be a good reason to shun it. < 1293281238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use the same interface as beep(1) but I can't even get beep to work on a vt as a normal user, though I remember that it worked in the past, and the man page states it should work < 1293281246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see section "ioctl wackiness" < 1293281247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1293281547 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293281680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_speaker#Pulse-width_modulation < 1293281694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293281844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I think I found out why that tandy sounded so different from the ibm in that video < 1293281865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia tandy had 3 channels < 1293281871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the ibm which had one < 1293282037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GW-BASIC not sure how reliable it is < 1293282688 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293282895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293283267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, three-channel beeping. < 1293283579 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1293283611 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Message on all protocols: Merry Christmas!!!!! < 1293283768 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293283934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293284921 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293285058 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293285401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite < 1293285430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw... tried MT-32 emulation in scummvm. But... ALSA lib pcm.c:7245:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occured < 1293285440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may be time to upgrade this computer < 1293285483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides it didn't sound like the videos < 1293285492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why I wonder) < 1293285506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it sounded like even more advanced synthing) < 1293285513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be sample rate or something I guess < 1293285518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293285593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, my thinkpad has two cards in /proc/asound... card0 and card29 < 1293285613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card29/id says ThinkPadEC < 1293285617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card0/id says Intel < 1293285622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card0 is what I would expect < 1293285688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPadEC just has one control in alsamixer, named Console. And it is just mute/unmute, no volume control < 1293285790 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1293285811 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293285854 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1293286050 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293286138 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293286243 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1293286394 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293286894 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1293287130 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293287255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293287421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a ThinkPad console beep. < 1293287481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The motherboard-integrated Radeon card has an Alsa entry too, because there's a HDMI port that can be used for audio output. < 1293287496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a single alsamixer control called "S/PDIF", and it's also just mute/unmute. < 1293287546 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293288222 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293288337 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293288481 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|afk < 1293289048 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1293289336 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293289411 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293289623 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL2 < 1293289653 0 :TLUL2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1293289982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293289997 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLULbot_ < 1293289998 0 :TLULbot_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1293289998 0 :TLULbot_!~TLUL@Wikia/TLULbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1293290054 0 :TLULbot_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL2 < 1293290075 0 :TLUL2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL3 < 1293290097 0 :TLUL3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL4 < 1293290122 0 :TLUL4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL5 < 1293290185 0 :TLUL5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1293290186 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1293290186 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1293290414 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293290508 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293291144 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6d83.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293291464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sounds like a ThinkPad console beep. <-- ah perhaps < 1293291496 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293291518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the thinkpad just beeps using the normal speakers. Normal volume control affects it < 1293291628 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293292636 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293292687 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293292742 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293293052 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293293725 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293293850 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293293867 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293294085 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-34-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293294829 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293294994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293295582 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1293295996 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293295999 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293296095 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293297079 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293297199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293297709 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293297789 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293298191 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293298333 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293298379 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoooh < 1293298406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haaah < 1293298452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hieeee < 1293298482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to ask; what /is/ the other meaning of esoteric? < 1293298485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-programming one, that is < 1293298500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidden mystic knowledge? < 1293298510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1293298527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical theories" < 1293298541 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is basically also the meaning we use! < 1293298545 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except less magical < 1293298547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define esoteric < 1293298558 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish esoteric < 1293298561 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish esoteric < 1293298587 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isutereec < 1293298595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical theories" \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Esotericism or Esoterism is a term with two basic meanings. In the dictionary sense of the term, "esoterism" signifies the holding of opinions < 1293298597 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esutereec < 1293298603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh it's working < 1293298631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1293298638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish esoteric < 1293298639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isutereec < 1293298642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish esoteric < 1293298643 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esutereec < 1293298655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST BE DIFFERENT DIALECTS < 1293298694 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish and finno-swedish < 1293298935 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russe-norsk < 1293298962 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russenorsk ) < 1293298998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that survived the soviet union. maybe it'll redevelop now... < 1293299070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nowadays it's probably replaced by english < 1293299192 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1293299306 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630] < 1293299329 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050142.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293299533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293301157 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1293301173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo uhuh < 1293301173 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh uhuh < 1293301350 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tried Scala? < 1293301352 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Io? < 1293302534 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293302547 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1293302999 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132767.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293305233 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293305301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi elliott btw < 1293305307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523! < 1293305309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy christmas < 1293305316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or other holiday of various kinds < 1293305316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(saying "btw" at the end of that makes it look like the channel's been active...) < 1293305324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, insert typical christmas greeting here < 1293305338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got SICP :) < 1293305346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read it today? < 1293305358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ten pages! finally i am a real programmer < 1293305429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * oerjan considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave < 1293305431 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255) * oerjan considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave < 1293305445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a Norwegian could decide not to bother with the delights of lutefisk because it would be too inconvenient < 1293305591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:47:07 Floating point doesn't exist everywhere, which might be a good reason to shun it. < 1293305594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also it is scary. < 1293305614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:57:10 fizzie, btw... tried MT-32 emulation in scummvm. But... ALSA lib pcm.c:7245:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occured < 1293305619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You did pirate the ROMs, right? < 1293305633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work without them. < 1293305638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:34:42 I've been meaning to ask; what /is/ the other meaning of esoteric? < 1293305647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Aleister Crowley magick, except more general < 1293305663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a hideous overgeneralisation, but < 1293305688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody stupid enough to think #esoteric on freenode would be about esoterica probably hasn't got a better definition themselves < 1293305764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, incidentally, very tired < 1293306038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I < 1293306049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been online recently because I've been pretty ill < 1293306058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still am, actually, but Christmas takes precedence for some reason < 1293306098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to hear it < 1293306103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, some people put off dying until after christmas < 1293306104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did those keyloggers ever get written? < 1293306111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I have to mark those somehow < 1293306119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've been submitted, and I have a bunch of them to mark < 1293306123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't dared to actually look at them yet < 1293306129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now may not be a good time < 1293306199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293306209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find a suitable VM to mark them in < 1293306215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be a pain rebooting it all the time < 1293306236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) because the kernel modules in question probably won't unload properly, b) because the very nature of the problem means that pretty much any error will just crash the system < 1293306404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: qemu? that can boot without assembling a hard disk image < 1293306422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -kernel bzImage -initrd foo -append root=blah < 1293306428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, root= just beind an example < 1293306469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://syntensity.com/static/python.html <-- CPython, compiled to LLVM bitcode, compiled to JavaScript. < 1293306623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a riddle/thought experiment for you < 1293306630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (car '()) is an invalid Scheme program. < 1293306637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is (eval '(car '())) a valid Scheme program? < 1293307301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://syntensity.com/static/python.js < 1293308151 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293308297 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293308648 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293308701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have never watched any cricket game on television or in a stadium, I have heard the game on the radio, I have seen photographs, and I have seen scorecards. < 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((evil '(lambda (x) x) '()) < 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(hello)) < 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: attempt to call a non-procedure < 1293309029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ('hello '()) < 1293309030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what < 1293309238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Interesting, but please, the wiki is really not a discussion board. We were using it that way before, but it sucked. Tell the forum about this matter. --Graue 02:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)]], in reply to ais523 < 1293309245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue must hate us so much :) < 1293309260 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1293309273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree. The wiki works better as the discussion board than the forum we have. IRC can also be used for discussion. < 1293309429 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293309445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to take a chill pill sometimes < 1293309480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liquid nitrogen with raspberry flavor < 1293309517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P lol < 1293309532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what it would take to have solid nitrogen < 1293309767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63.153 K, -210.00 °C, -346.00 °F < 1293309832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that's only about 15 °C below boiling < 1293310082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think everyone disagrees with em on that < 1293310095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikis make very good forums < 1293310105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find them much more convenient than most actual forums < 1293310112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree completely -- I was remarking on the fact that /none/ of Graue's policies seem to be popular < 1293310121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you are correct. I agree with you about that < 1293310134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "no categories without discussing" thing is just weird, the keeping "User:" in links is weird too... < 1293310140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have watched cricket games, actually < 1293310156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rarely worth going to a stadium to actually watch the game, the field's so big you can hardly see what's going on, on TV works a lot better < 1293310160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've watched them both ways) < 1293310163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anyway, I'm trying to beat cpressey at his own game < 1293310166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I agree with User: in links < 1293310178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know me from Wikipedia, I'm a stickler for namespace separation < 1293310197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I'm trying to beat him at the "Scheme subset with a short self-interpreter" game < 1293310214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, well, even reading the first few pages of SICP does things like this to you < 1293310242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can ignore any policies that don't work that are bad except for the one about public domain. (Even wikipedia has one rule "ignore all rules" and it is basically of a similar idea; if the rule doesn't work, do something else. But also fix things to meet the rule if they should. There are rules for a reason!) < 1293310255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's not such a wise idea, at least it wasn't when Graue was around < 1293310260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his reaction to people breaking policies was to yell at them a lot < 1293310263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1293310269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only once, but it was pretty famous < 1293310275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with a mass revert of changes and a short ban < 1293310282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more than once < 1293310285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1293310291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the year categories thing is the only thing I can think of < 1293310293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I found another Graue-rage recently, lemme grep the logs < 1293310298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have watched at a stadium and television. What match was it and where was the stadium? < 1293310298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wasn't he against them? < 1293310311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it was Edgbaston stadium in Birmingham, more than once < 1293310324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in principle, e was against the fact they were implemented without asking for permission first < 1293310344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e doesn't mind the categories /themselves/ < 1293310360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was wrong with the year categories? < 1293310368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: not in principle, e was against the fact they were implemented without asking for permission first < 1293310374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grr, ever said something and then been unable to find it in the logs? < 1293310386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are correct partially I think, of course there are rules for a reason. But you have to know the purpose of the rules too. < 1293310389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't remember < 1293310398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, what was the match format? < 1293310400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems plausible that I've done that, but I can't think of an occasion on which it's happened < 1293310412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: five-day, either international or county < 1293310420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not seeing all five days < 1293310420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.22:19:37:47 haha, and some classic Graue rage: < 1293310420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.12.22:19:37:49 [[I reverted your purge of Talk:Udage because that isn't the way wikis work. You do not own that page, nor do you own the Udage article. Do not delete valid information from this site again. --Graue 19:16, 10 Oct 2005 (GMT)]] < 1293310427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Graue even still active? < 1293310427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more commonly 1 or 2 < 1293310431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nope < 1293310433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he wiped the talk page after it got big, IIRC) < 1293310435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e only wakes up in emergencies nowadays < 1293310453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more active than I < 1293310455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1293310464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I agree with not blanking the pages, but the reaction is a bit over-the-top) < 1293310469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, Keymaker and cpressey deal with most of the spam problem, that's pretty much the only thing that normally needs admin intervention < 1293310495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that is OK. If there is enough of wrong thing that is emergency, it ought to be corrected like that. < 1293310497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like how cpressey didn't even realise he was a sysop until I told him < 1293310501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: despite him deleting pages before that < 1293310549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I just realised I'm basically cheating at the self-interpreter game < 1293310553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally < 1293310576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm using various non-trivial procedures, and then just including them in the self-interpreter with < 1293310578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo . ,foo) < 1293310580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the default environment < 1293310589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., abusing metacircular privileges to vastly inflate the language < 1293310637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is excited for the upcoming release of Newspeak, despite not having enough time to submit my trivial IDE changes < 1293310652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, change. And it would probably be easier to describe the change than to package it up in any way < 1293310663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1293310665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse is ... leaking < 1293310720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293310724 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293310822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there an idealised algol self-interp? :) < 1293310933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have I/O, so no < 1293310959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the interesting subsets are incapable of self-interpreting due to being FSMs < 1293310972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume that's a metaphor for trying to avoid me? < 1293310980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1293310991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could a mouse possibly leak? < 1293310991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't need IO, just have a program that is a function < 1293310994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking a program and returning the result < 1293310997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-biological mouse < 1293311001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i wish i knew < 1293311056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of my /quit I think my computer is on fire < 1293311075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't have any sort of string type either < 1293311088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even an easy equivalent to lists < 1293311097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds useful! < 1293311111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idealised, see? < 1293311128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I actually talked about Alluded To Female enough in here for her to be called Alluded To Female? < 1293311138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, and please don't make it that way. < 1293311145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX! < 1293311149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: assume a perfectly spherical programming language in a vacuum < 1293311169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why did you mention Alluded To Female the other day? < 1293311181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did? < 1293311211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, you know, say, Iterable from Java, or your equivalent in insert-favourite-programming-language-here? < 1293311221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure < 1293311226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much as close to a string as you can get in Idealised Algol < 1293311230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I said something about sending a message to Fidelity, and you thought Fidelity was her name < 1293311249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably close enough to work from < 1293311249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so all strings are 8 bytes? :) < 1293311257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293311257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say yes) < 1293311259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1293311272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're things that support the same methods as a list of 8-bit characters would < 1293311280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, bool < 1293311282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not byte < 1293311285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1293311299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs data types other than booleans? < 1293311315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, IA's type system is hilarious; it's based around 1-bit integers and 0-bit integers) < 1293311320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idealised algol has functions, does it not? < 1293311323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the 0-bit integers are used more often) < 1293311326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why does it need booleans?! < 1293311329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, but only in the typed lambda calculus sense < 1293311335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit... integers.. < 1293311347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it doesn't actually need booleans < 1293311347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do booleans in typed lambda calculus :P < 1293311355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the typed < 1293311360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, I think they end up equivalent in the final circuitry < 1293311398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, \a\b.a and \a\b.b are wired the same way as true and false) < 1293311399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language is bloated! I'm switching to Idealised Concurrent Lambda Calculus < 1293311432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how generic is idealised algol? e.g. could there be a VHDL compiler outputting idealised algol? < 1293311439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have three or possibly four base types: command (0-bit int), integer (1-bit int), variable (like bool* in C), and perhaps Semaphor < 1293311443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*semaphore < 1293311451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit int is just data () = (), surely? < 1293311454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some debate as to whether the semaphores are intrinsically needed < 1293311456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1293311466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can still be evaluated for its side effects < 1293311467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, like (bool *) sans pointer arithmetic, one presumes < 1293311473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1293311481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like (bool &) from C++, except everyone hates C++ < 1293311485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would call 0-bit int "the unit type" < 1293311491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-bit integer just makes it sound strange for no real reason < 1293311491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ref bool from ML < 1293311496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *bool ref < 1293311496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, we normally call it "command" < 1293311499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds even weirder < 1293311501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, yes < 1293311510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ML, type parameters come first, because inconsistency is a virtue < 1293311548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IA/ICA is pretty heavily inspired by ML, actually < 1293311562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's call-by-name < 1293311591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this makes it difficult to determine whether it's lazy or eager, it has properties of both; mostly lazy, I think) < 1293311601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:30 I quit IRC < 1293311603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(local time) < 1293311618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott. Not forever. < 1293311641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have 16 minutes < 1293311643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1293311653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION commends tswett on counting the number of sand particles in Nubia < 1293311695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder he was away from the channel so long < 1293311706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm? < 1293311809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, beating cpressey is really hard < 1293311861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you get a rubber hose to beat cpressey with? < 1293311884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just steal something from a shop, kill the Kops that come after you, and take theirs < 1293311892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this may only work in NetHack, not in Real Life) < 1293311923 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@64.231.54.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293311926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: killing the Kops is not exactly /easy/ < 1293311933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, Kops are pretty rubbish < 1293311935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here =================================== < 1293311938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the shopkeeper that's the issue < 1293311943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Kops are just there to get in the way < 1293311950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, the Kops are fine, I forgot < 1293311954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of the Watch < 1293311962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, er, bad memories < 1293311976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: YO HMOD UPDATE OUT CUZ IT'S LIKE THEI T < 1293311978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THE IT < 1293311987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you escaped the watch IIRC < 1293312009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Correction -- I, pressing the keys that #nethack told me to, escaped the Watch. < 1293312012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#nethack is a very good player. < 1293312612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, bye all < 1293312624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all. < 1293312635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sorry I am late. < 1293312644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What was the result of the match? < 1293312645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1293312790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't remember < 1293312792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ages ago < 1293312799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I was supporting either team < 1293312851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs appears to rearrange itself in my task bar if i move it < 1293312855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go next to firefox, stupid thing! < 1293312862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't go next to two firefoxes < 1293312862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a description of algorithm for plurals, I might use something similar with TeXnicard. < 1293312867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dragged you next to /one/ < 1293312924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I should add conditional processing commands @< ... @> < 1293312943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps @[ ... @] < 1293312962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you need to support either team? < 1293313012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you remember if there were any ties or draws? < 1293313024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1293313027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program has a cadadr in it < 1293313029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cadadr e) < 1293313040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: draws are quite common, ties are pretty rare < 1293313045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(draws happen when you run out of time) < 1293313172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How common are draws? (I have only seen a few scorecards, so I don't know.) < 1293313429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty common < 1293313443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes sides get greedy and get too many runs, then can't win in time < 1293313457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes sides stall for a draw because they know that declaring would probably make them lose < 1293313480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, about half the games are draws < 1293313485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I think I might have to convert my defines into lets < 1293313495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the extent that county cricket introduced a tiebreak rule for draws, to stop people doing it so much) < 1293313533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare? < 1293313546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concede the rest of your innings < 1293313549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Declare an innings closed is you end your current innings early. < 1293313568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only do it when you think you'll win anyway, and fear that if you continue you'll end up running out of time and only getting a draw < 1293313730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I /think/ I have BEGIN and DEFINE support now. < 1293313969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my default environment is going to be ugly though < 1293313971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have no LIST < 1293314004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cons (cons 'cons cons) ...) < 1293314010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cons cons cons cons cons cons cons. < 1293314229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is one possible rule (I don't know how well it would work): If one side has wasted more time than the other side in total, and the game is running out of time while the side wasting more time is the batting side, the batting side loses. (I don't know how well such a rule would work.) < 1293314377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you tell if a side is wasting time? < 1293314384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule actually used is based on runs per over < 1293314388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is similar, in a way < 1293314397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that timewasting tends to be quite low on runrate < 1293314409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas trying to hurry up so you can declare tends to be quite hich < 1293314410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*high < 1293314596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I need help with another scheme question. I have four different functions that check four conditions to determine validity of the input. Each function checks one condition and returs a boolean. Normally, I would just check ((func1) && (func2) && .....)and print out the boolean. But appearantly Scheme48 doesn't allow logic operators. So How do I check the four functions without using logic operators?" < 1293314636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be something like (lazy-and (func1) (func2) (func3) (func4)), although I don't know what the function's actually called in Scheme < 1293314651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "and", and it's a special form; but I know this, I was just quoting it for amusement. < 1293314652 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293314656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know if you can tell if a side is wasting time much, except possibly in a computer game. Or maybe with TV recording. I don't know. < 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I tried doing cond( (func1) (cond( (func2) (cond (func3) (cond (func4)#T))))) but it returns < 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: invalid variable reference < 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cond < 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #{Package 173 user} < 1293314660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; no values returned]] < 1293314663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ lol < 1293314694 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293314737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe runs per over might work. Either way, if you think you could tell which side wasted more time in the match in total, do you think my rule would work? (I don't know for sure?) < 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In any case, I strongly think that the primitive for assigment < 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should be SET and not SET!. In fact, since no one likes assignment < 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, I don't see any reason why anyone should object to just < 1293314977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : leaving this undefined in the standard. < 1293314991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Kent M Pitman, the RRRS standardisation list, 1984 < 1293314994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only. < 1293315219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is it that you are making? < 1293315292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am attempting to implement an interpreter of a restricted subset of Scheme in that subset, such that the self-interpreter is shorter than that of Chris Pressey's Pixley effort (http://catseye.tc/projects/pixley/) without the language being much bigger at all. < 1293315471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Try to make that. < 1293315831 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1293316021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I think this self-interpreter might actually work right now < 1293316024 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL5 < 1293316029 0 :TLUL5!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cook_Me_Flax < 1293316039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if I fix the ONE OR TWO errors :P < 1293316107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where _is_ that unterminated list < 1293316255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you never tried that riddle, did you? < 1293316267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1293316268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"riddle" < 1293316272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very lose sense of the word < 1293316888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, more bugs < 1293316931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the document I found about English plural: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Plurals.html (I plan to use a somewhat more generic algorithm in TeXnicard) < 1293316934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293317018 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is TeXnicard? < 1293317105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay damian conway < 1293317285 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure ym little finger can take much more proving < 1293317329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you prove things with your little finger? < 1293317335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to use my other fingers, too < 1293317387 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1293317414 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293317425 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with Ctrl moved to the caps-lock key, it's taking a beating with all these lemmas < 1293317451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the best place for ctrl is where alt is (on pc keyboards) IMO, that's where it originally was < 1293317454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alt was at the extremities < 1293317460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally = on ibm pc keyboards < 1293317461 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1293317472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although on os x of course this is done by default < 1293317474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with apple keyboards < 1293317480 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea how to tell emacs this ? :D < 1293317486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in emacs, though, which still uses ctrl... < 1293317496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: dunno, what OS? < 1293317501 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu < 1293317524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have to say I like them where they are < 1293317558 0 :Cook_Me_Flax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293317575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: system → preferences → keyboard → layouts → options... → ctrl key position → ...never mind, it doesn't have an option for it < 1293317584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could mess around with xkb. but that way madness lies. < 1293317693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: telling emacs, though... I /think/ you can tell it to consider another key to be C- < 1293317707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know how. < 1293318040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait /what/ < 1293318101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293318248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this /almost/ works < 1293318310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: You did pirate the ROMs, right? <-- I found some copies on an old floppy. It said "this is totally legal" on the sticker < 1293318323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I meant as opposed to not having the ROMs. :p < 1293318333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do have the roms yes < 1293318340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it failed in a different way before that < 1293318346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which was to exit < 1293318355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the music /plays/, it just stutters < 1293318360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then < 1293318360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note: The MT-32 has a superior sound to the emulator, even when it works properly. < 1293318366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, also, uses less CPU. < 1293318372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention ScummVM can interface with a real MT-32? < 1293318377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have one < 1293318378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is: BUY IT FROM ME GOD DAMMIT. < 1293318381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help < 1293318386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't you want to use it < 1293318389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, free shipping? < 1293318406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have nowhere to put it anyway < 1293318409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Free shipping if the price is at least \epsilon more than the cost of shipping :p < 1293318410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1293318412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's not big. < 1293318425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, approx dimensions? < 1293318442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... it's wider and about as long as this 13" laptop, I'd say. Pretty flat; just enough for a display and some knobs. < 1293318445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light, too. < 1293318452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/MT_32.jpg < 1293318454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not big. < 1293318466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that doesn't really show the scale < 1293318468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.chrisguitars.com/rol-mt32.jpg < 1293318471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Comparison with big power brick. < 1293318484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293318499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't fit. Only place I have is on top of the tower case really < 1293318517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put it on the floor :P < 1293318539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, I'M SELLING AN AUTHENTIC SNAKE-OIL-COATED HOUSING STATION FOR THE MT-32. < 1293318545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only $1e9999999999999999999999. < 1293318559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides, the actual copy of the game for scummvm I have includes some *.ogg renderings that sound like the mt-32 < 1293318562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that don't stutter < 1293318569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that scummvm seems able to use < 1293318573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is that Monkey Island 1? < 1293318580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If so, those are rips of the CD tracks. < 1293318582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1 and 2. Have only tried 1 so far < 1293318591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have *.ogg < 1293318594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, 2 you don't need MT-32 for, just tell it to use Adlib. < 1293318601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and BTW, you want to turn on aspect ratio correction in the ScummVM settings. < 1293318602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but adlib sounds horrible < 1293318604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that < 1293318608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not for MI2. It's designed for Adlib. < 1293318611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More or less.) < 1293318611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1293318624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aspect ratio correction? < 1293318633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, won't it just resize the window? < 1293318634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. global scummvm settings -> graphics. < 1293318647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr the games are 320x200. This was shown on a 4:3 monitor. < 1293318649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. non-square pixels. < 1293318660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. everything will look subtly wrong if you don't turn on aspect ratio correction. < 1293318661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1293318671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You probably want 2x or 3x scaling (with no filters) too. < 1293318676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher is better, since there's less error in the aspect ratio correction then. < 1293318678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw xdpyinfo or whatever thinks I have (very slightly) non-square pixels < 1293318691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dpi differs in like 1-2. I think it is wrong < 1293318696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think that's just because you have non-square pixel distance, possibly. < 1293318700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the actual pixels still being square. < 1293318721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well measuring and dividing by pixels gives it as square < 1293318730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough then. < 1293318732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the difference is too small to actually be certain about < 1293318746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out how my self-interpreter is broken. < 1293318761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhh-ha! < 1293318763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1293318768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just foolishly using an INVALID PROGRAM. < 1293318796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, I /could/ use the steel calipers I have. But the risk of scratching screen is high < 1293318807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I don't think it would be enough for the width < 1293318882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be some integer rounding error for the dpi I guess < 1293318903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/WhkPl.gif <-- Oh man, time to get some wood, I'm all out. La la la... la la la... WHAT AAAAAAAA < 1293318912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on SMP, apparently) < 1293318921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better with TNT though :P < 1293318940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of these three monitors report non-equal X/Y DPI numbers too. < 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ xdpyinfo | grep -i resolution: < 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : resolution: 93x95 dots per inch < 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : resolution: 99x98 dots per inch < 1293318942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : resolution: 96x96 dots per inch < 1293318958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, water on the wood? < 1293318964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, you did that? < 1293318985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1293318989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we have 2 or 3 "water trees" on our server < 1293318994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do? < 1293319014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, two near 4000,4000, I made one (4x4x2 pool) and PH made one (1x1x1 pool) < 1293319020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and a third one elsewhere iirc < 1293319026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere northeast of spawn < 1293319027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so a tree in water. Right. < 1293319058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feck, it do not wurk. < 1293319059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that happens too < 1293319067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This a bads! < 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mzscheme -f diuerse.scm < 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(begin (define x (quote x)) x) < 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(begin x) < 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1293319083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car: expects argument of type ; given () < 1293319084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or rather, way east from spawn there is a waterfall with multiple partially submerged trees < 1293319086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE I EVER DONE TO YOU < 1293319098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was natural < 1293319153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I fix this bug, though, I think I've beaten cpressey. < 1293319167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'll want to implement a compiler to C, so we can have a wonderful Diuerse interpreter in C. < 1293319176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. With a hardcoded program. < 1293319208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, beaten him at what? < 1293319278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beaten him with what? < 1293319311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A ray of sunlight is made up many atoms." -- Plan 9 from Outer Space. < 1293319340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly with "of" in there, that might be a typo of whoever made this script transcription thing. < 1293319394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, not of sunlight, But what about a ray of CME? (Coronal Mass Ejection iirc) < 1293319421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Beaten him at "a Scheme subset with a short self-interpreter". < 1293319445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My language is slightly bigger than his (but smaller in some other aspects), but the self-interpreter is shorter and simpler. < 1293319448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, but didn't he hate the begin keyword? < 1293319504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Take a can of your gasoline. Say this can of gasoline is the sun. Now you spread a thin a line of it to a ball, representing the Earth. Now, the gasoline represents the sunlight, the sun particles. Here we saturate the ball with the gasoline, the sunlight. Then we put a flame to the ball. The flame will speedily travel around the Earth, back along the line of gasoline to can, or the sun itself. It will explode this source, and spread to every place tha < 1293319504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t gasoline, or sunlight, touches. Explode the sunlight here, Gentlemen, and you explode the universe." < 1293319520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could do without begin, it'd just be slightly uglier. I don't know that he hates it, anyway, and Scheme has no keywords; "begin" is a perfectly valid symbol, for instance. But, yes, the BEGIN special form. < 1293319539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is my new favourite science. < 1293319557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... this is so.... absurd < 1293319561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about a solaronite bomb. < 1293319604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: BOOOM < 1293319618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explode The Sunlight Here, Gentlemen, And You Explode The Universe sounds like a post-post-indie post-post-post-pre-'pata-post-hipster album title. < 1293319622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not really. < 1293319625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT WOULD, IN A BETTER UNIVERSE. < 1293319630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, oerjan must've stumbled across some solaronite. Bye bye, universe. < 1293319639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP universe a long time ago -- recently. < 1293319660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder what would happen in MC if the admin was to /give 64 blocks of 0 to a player < 1293319664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is air iirc) < 1293319670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you can hold air. < 1293319695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the "space soldier" bad guy is called Eros. < 1293319725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, .... .... < 1293319737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if pre-beta you could have placed air (with the item-placement hack) as opposed to mining. < 1293319807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with /give you can (or could) give someone water/lava source blocks, and they could hold those just fine. (They were rendered as thin, flat squares of water/lava when held in the hand.) < 1293319856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And protocol-wise the "no block" code tends to be -1, not 0. So it could do something. < 1293319907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Minepedia is very adamant that you can't do any funny stuff with air, at least: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Air < 1293319960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's no item with id 0" < 1293319968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not, then. < 1293320005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water is nice and animated in the inventory too. < 1293320035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both spring and block forms have the same tooltip ("Water"). < 1293320042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mzscheme -f diuerse.scm < 1293320042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quote x) < 1293320046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no ... < 1293320052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Portals even have a nice inventory icon. :p < 1293320059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, actual portal block. It just dies after a few seconds if you place it. < 1293320108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-source water block is pretty silly. You can place a block of still, non-flowing water anywhere, apparently. < 1293320129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1293320202 0 :calamari!~calamari@206.29.188.191 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293320202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works! < 1293320205 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1293320218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293320274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293320488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think that my procedures may not support recursion as-is < 1293320514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1293320584 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on something fun? < 1293320641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: semi-fun < 1293320654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: a self-interpreter for a tiny subset of Scheme < 1293320668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is to beat cpressey by having a shorter self-interpreter with a language about as small :) < 1293320693 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1293320730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I have a 66-line interpreter which does everything except recursion. < 1293320746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which I think can make self-interpret by changing (define (f ...) ...) to (define f (lambda (...) ...)). < 1293320749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and adding recursion :P < 1293320775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of like having a C compiler that doesn't support loops < 1293320803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Technically, all I have to do is fix DEFINE. < 1293320824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could have it so that in (define name value), name is in value's scope. Except not really, because that'd be infinite recursion etc. < 1293320835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the way I do it, define is basically a let around the rest of the program. < 1293320843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not quite sure what to do. < 1293320904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For define, all you need to do is implement macros and convert (define (f ...) ...) to (define f (lambda (...) ...)) using them < 1293320915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's not the issue. < 1293320924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I was being snarky. < 1293320932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1293320945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real issue is that "(define x (lambda () (x)) ..." doesn't work, because it just adds x to the environment in which it evaluates "...". < 1293320950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x))) < 1293320956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not exactly clear how to fix this. < 1293320968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could add list mutation, but, uh, that's a lot of additional complexity and ugliness and horrible and ugh. < 1293320978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait! < 1293320980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I can just fix define. < 1293320983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, I can't. < 1293320986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I? Maybe. < 1293320995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I add another parameter to EVIL to denote ... no, no. < 1293321000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if ... no. < 1293321032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fix my program, yo! < 1293321043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bugs// < 1293321046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done < 1293321046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how goes the C game language thing? < 1293321058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite c < 1293321072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Waiting for Phantom_Hoover to return from his mandatory six-day relative-visiting-hell. (Note: Hell may be exaggerating. Slightly!) :p < 1293321095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually I had guests from US this evening. Very nice. < 1293321118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this is IRELAND. < 1293321141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not old relatives however, but rather young friends of my mom. < 1293321161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mom"? You've turned into one of them already! < 1293321176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right "mum" in UK < 1293321210 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1293321265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, this is actually really subtle. < 1293321272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I did not read sufficient amounts of SICP today. < 1293321365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes: < 1293321366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T3X.ORG : Goodbye < 1293321366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to a revision of German law (the controversial JMStV), I will take this site off-line on 2010-12-31 until some degree of legal certainty has been established. < 1293321368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for posterity: < 1293321370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for Scheme 9 from Empty Space? < 1293321371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now hosted at these locations: < 1293321371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://tx97.net/s9fes/ < 1293321373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://telegraphics.com.au/s9fes/ < 1293321375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.sacrideo.us/s9fes/ < 1293321377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://xivilization.net/~marek/s9fes/ < 1293321379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for giving the code a new home!