< 1292976241 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point in even trying to protect a game < 1292976249 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its going to get cracked anyways < 1292976335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it harder for lazier people to pirate it < 1292976356 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a matter of copying and pasting a cracked exe < 1292976362 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lazy and I can do that < 1292976366 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292976373 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again I also crack my own games sometimes, so I guess I'm not that lazy < 1292976521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or 2 requests a second shouldn't accidentally DoS anyone, should it? < 1292976552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Target is using Dreamhost < 1292976670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292976691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um that's not a very good idea prolonged < 1292976719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1292976742 0 :Phamhntom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1292976847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1292976925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well how long would you be making such requests for < 1292976934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~18 hours < 1292976968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not all at one time < 1292976971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: You forgot about the AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA****************************\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ < 1292976991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, I just contacted someone who might have administrative control of the wiki < 1292977022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi. Do you have control over the wiki? Unofficial policy seems to be < 1292977022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that unregistered edits should be disabled for the time being. I've < 1292977023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been contemplating writing a bot to ban IPs, but I'd really rather < 1292977023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. There should be a simple setting somewhere, I think." < 1292977034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1-2 edits a second for 18 hours? < 1292977035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L O L < 1292977045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1-2 bans a second < 1292977050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requests < 1292977057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming it's on a shitty server < 1292977059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i find very likely < 1292977119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is Dreamhost < 1292977152 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1292977219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe < 1292977221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY NOT < 1292977227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be slightly slower. < 1292977275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I improved http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1292977627 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292977797 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292977888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVSup is written in Modula-3. < 1292978052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously! What is this language! < 1292978270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki.org uses what looks like a Linspire icon < 1292978402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST FIND THIS LANGUAGE. < 1292978551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Newarticletext < 1292978764 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292978967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292979203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hey, any slashes program ending with \ is invalid, right? < 1292979570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slashes elliott's head off < 1292979688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: And what about //foo/? Does that terminate immediately, or $wtf forever? < 1292979939 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292980171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292980695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> run "/abc/def/abc" < 1292980695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1292980697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tha's no' ri'. < 1292980914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> replace "abc" "def" "helloabc" < 1292980914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"defc" < 1292980915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1292980921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1292981024 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1292981137 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292981276 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1292981494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292981580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the name of the game. the length of the string. the crime of the time. the dog ate my moon. < 1292981581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep. < 1292982313 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1292982457 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292982586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1292982658 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292983514 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my God < 1292983515 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This < 1292983516 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1292983517 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1292983517 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most < 1292983524 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic keygen music I have ever heard < 1292983554 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dancing pirate is awesome too < 1292983595 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292983659 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292984615 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292984648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's playing DDR, I see. < 1292984692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1292984884 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292985193 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1292985399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: hey, any slashes program ending with \ is invalid, right? < 1292985408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1292985410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program just terminates < 1292985412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any slashes program consisting solely of \, you mean < 1292985413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my interpretation of the spec < 1292985414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1292985417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1292985419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foo\ < 1292985421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prints foo and exits < 1292985426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1292985428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when there's not enough program to execute, program execution stops < 1292985435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a haskell slashes impl < 1292985438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec is quite clear on that point. < 1292985447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ICgN < 1292985449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably very slow < 1292985457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite elegant < 1292985462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the perl implementation may not be entirely correct on //.../ stuff, there was a discussion < 1292985468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine infloops on that < 1292985472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the discussion < 1292985506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it was a perl special case feature interfering < 1292985840 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292985875 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ew0VtHmik < 1292985986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, wtf? < 1292985986 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292986112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I figured how to do N-arg c lambdas. < 1292986138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: basically fn((int a, int b, int c), ...) using "join_args_commas args" inside fn and "join_args_semicolons", this also lets us do type inferrence < 1292986143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a note to self, amend http://sprunge.us/IOdM tomorrow < 1292986182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pikhq should link me to his copyable lambda code so I can base it off that. < 1292986202 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Revolution < 1292986542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1292986555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yoy forgot to ping yourself ;) ) < 1292986556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1292986559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1292986559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1292986565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1292986657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1292986953 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292987201 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292988153 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292988426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292988670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1292989353 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292989435 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292989918 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292990078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1292990219 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1292990400 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292990770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292990803 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292991577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been *years* since I played FFX, and I still have the freaking Hymn of the Fayth stuck in my head. < 1292991587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit UEMATU! < 1292991633 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292991855 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292992599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1292992696 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-204-200.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292992803 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292992929 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292993406 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... PCRM has published bottom 5 cookbooks for the year... Of course, knowing what PCRM does, good work from writers of those 5. < 1292993457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1292993559 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCRM, CSPI, PETA... All part of same bunch... < 1292993715 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all have doublespeak names... < 1292993801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in league with each other? < 1292993818 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, Yes. < 1292993883 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292993968 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "best" cookbooks of the year on list PCRM did are all vegan (caveat!) or vegetarian (not so good). < 1292994024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caveat? < 1292994037 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially means "Watch out!" < 1292994062 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292994064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a caveat is < 1292994067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the caveat? < 1292994140 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vegan diet without supplementing leads to nutrional defiencies. < 1292994167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1292994179 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it isn't good for health even when when supplementing is an understatement. < 1292994232 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is only funny today because of previous xkcd < 1292994248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and having herbivore without signaficant predators in any ecosystem is a recipe for disaster. < 1292994505 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with plant-based diet one must choose the animal products well to avoid trouble with defiencies. And there are some plant products that are not acutely toxic but still just plain unfit for human consumption. < 1292994566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: There is no indication that a cultivating omnivore is no less dangerous < 1292994700 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps... But that "herbivore on top of food chain" disaster has been seen time and time again... < 1292994717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1292994727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But our situation has never truly occurred < 1292994732 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the known history of life < 1292994857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1292995017 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292995037 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, agriculture as presently practiced is really destructive to the environment and health. < 1292995067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1292995086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an obvious economical consequence that will not be overcome until necessary < 1292995171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292995208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I met someone with more nostalgia than myself. < 1292995215 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really destructive to health: Second worst health-related disaster humankind has ever experenced. < 1292995246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why do you say health? < 1292995254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do you consider #1? < 1292995343 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, #1 was also related to agriculture... < 1292995352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is? < 1292995380 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning of agriculture with cereal grains. That was REALLY ugly. < 1292995390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1292995397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we got over that one, more or less < 1292995404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1292995483 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can tell from remains of human skull around the time of beginning of argriculture if it is remains of hunter-gatherer or of member of agricultural tribe with one look if one knows what to look for... < 1292995510 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diffrence is just so massive. < 1292995519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not about to abandon agriculture, thank you very much < 1292995562 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are way better ways (for human health and environment) to do agriculture than what is presently done. And the reason why these changes are not done is economics. < 1292995749 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is cheaper to do half-assed job and expend lots of fossil resources than to do it properly. < 1292995891 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is closely related to reasons why seed oils and margarine are promoted as "healthy" and why butter is demonized as "unhealthy". < 1292995969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: economics is not about money < 1292996131 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292996169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and organization closely related to PCRM (CSPI) is the one who made restaurants switch from frying with tallow, lard and co to frying with partially hyrogenated plant fats (the unhealthiest fats in existence). < 1292996241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no < 1292996281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the public has thankfully managed to straighten out the difference between saturated, cis-unsaturated, and trans-unsaturated fats, thankfully < 1292996387 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292996453 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and don't forget the diffrence between trans fats from partial hydrogenation (why these are even allowed?) and vaccinic acid/conjugated linolic acid (seem to be healthy). < 1292996546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's true < 1292996558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our body can process a few naturally-occuring trans-unsaturated fats < 1292996618 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, one often hears statements about fats that can be only explained by 1) Who gives the statement has absolutely no clue about what they are talkin about. 2) The statement is just plain disinformation. < 1292996633 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or intentional attempt to mislead the public... < 1292996816 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what is efficency of conversion of linolic acid into archadonic acid in the body... Is it real bad like ALA->EPA/DHA conversion or way better than that? < 1292996858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you understand why trans fats are bad for you? < 1292997025 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and techno trans fats don't occur alone. Hydrogenation also produces dihydrovitamin-K1 from vitamin K1. Little is known about that compound, but the little that is known is chock full of red flags... < 1292997258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I repeat my question < 1292997323 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, the biochemical basis of why trans fats are unhealthy could be rather interesting reading... < 1292997360 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292997564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292997695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Eldaic acid (the infamous trans fat) has the double bond in position 9 (and most well-known desaturase acts on just that position)... < 1292997765 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desaturating position 6 would create C=C-C-C=C group (which is somewhat unstable). < 1292998533 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292998728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292999702 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292999931 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293000899 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293000985 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1293001091 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293001243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For your Consideration, The Firms of Dutton & Riverhead Books of New York City, Publishers of Ken Follett, Darin Strauss, David Rees, and the RZA, Present in the English Language: A Further Compendium of Complete World Knowledge in "The Areas Of My Expertise" Assembled and Illumined by Me, John Hodgman, A Famous Minor Television Personality*, Offering More Information Than You Require On subjects as Diverse As: The Past (As There Is Always < 1293001243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of It), The Future (As There is Still Some Left), All of the Presidents of the United States, The Secrets of Hollywood, Gambling, The Sport of the Asthmatic Man (Including Hermit-Crab Racing), Strange Encounters with Aliens, How to Buy a Computer, How to Cook an Owl, And Most Other Subjects, Plus: Answers To Your Questions Posed via Electronic Mail, And: 700 Mole-Man Names, Including Their Occupations." < 1293001249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Formerly a Former Professional Literary Agent and Professional Writer, AKA "The Deranged Millionaire" < 1293001252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there's a title. < 1293001453 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i only know of it due to hodgman's association with joco and the list of hobo names < 1293002040 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293002060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it be to port zzo38's MegaZeux stuff to Flash? < 1293002230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293003179 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293003426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293003676 0 :sexygirl153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293003679 0 :sexygirl153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1293003726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: THAT WAS TOO OBVIOUS < 1293003754 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launched 2 copies of mirc by mistake >.> < 1293003786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that is your _actual_ alternative nick? very well then. < 1293003801 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed so < 1293004381 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293004503 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... New set of IPv4 allocation reports is coming soon... < 1293004646 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293004799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1293004800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1293005205 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... 2.96x/8... < 1293005383 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 depletion is still at 0.027%. Wonder if they manage to deplete even one IPv6 block next year (oh, and there are 506 of them free currently)... < 1293005583 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293005794 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293005897 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1293005902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Build system weirdness: http://p.zem.fi/bow4 -- the actual link failure is because on some systems just having "gio-2.0" is not enough to pull in gthread fluff, so libs also needs "gthread-2.0"; but it fails in a bit funny way. < 1293005919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With V=1 it fails the way you'd expect, with the failing link step last and no extra fluff after. < 1293005994 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least no weird header / library incompatiblities. < 1293006169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a quoting thing is involved. < 1293006186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corresponding useful.make snippet: < 1293006188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define do < 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo '$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)'; \ < 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(strip $(3)) || ( \ < 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit=$$?; \ < 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo ' (command was: $(strip $(3)))'; \ < 1293006189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit $$exit \ < 1293006191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1293006193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef < 1293006260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it ends up executing: echo ' LINK _build/mcmap'; cc [..] || ( exit=_build/cmd.o _build/console.o [..]; echo '...'; exit xit ) < 1293006326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just stupidly quadruplicating the $$s into $$$$s makes it work. < 1293006370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming some double-expansion there somewhere; maybe once on the definition and once on use? < 1293006386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GNU Make 3.81.) < 1293006751 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293006950 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293007893 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293008267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293009117 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293009269 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293009541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293010235 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293010670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293011611 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293011851 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293012169 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1293012333 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293012811 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293012885 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293013801 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293014045 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293014781 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293015005 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293015265 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293016233 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293016492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293017373 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228063001.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293017642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1293018340 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293018499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293018539 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1293018568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1293019473 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293019824 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293020759 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293021010 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293021232 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal < 1293021959 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293022119 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293023073 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293023306 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Rewrote Leaf Decay for the seventeenth time, and as a result.. < 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. fixed HUGE fps drops in single player < 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. fixed players getting spammed with data and getting disconnected in SMP < 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* .. felt like a sexy programming god < 1293023679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Fixed the item dupe bug in SMP" < 1293023695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that third subitem there is a good sign, but at least it's (supposedly) fixed now. < 1293023841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293023991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has MC been patched to a working state yet? < 1293024165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they say. < 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "* Rewrote Leaf Decay for the seventeenth time, and as a result.. < 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. fixed HUGE fps drops in single player < 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. fixed players getting spammed with data and getting disconnected in SMP < 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * .. felt like a sexy programming god < 1293024172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Fixed the item dupe bug in SMP" < 1293024174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure that third subitem there is a good sign, but at least it's (supposedly) fixed now. < 1293024180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was just before your join. < 1293024226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the beta 1.1 update he posted was further updated to 1.1_01 because 1.1 "contained a bug where no text worked anywhere in the game because the newly made font.txt didn’t make it into package when building.." < 1293024240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But such issues are the norm when you're dealing with a "sexy programming god". < 1293024260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTCH: the man with the ego to dwarf Wolfram's. < 1293024275 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293024300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course, that font bug doesn't happen except when testing through the live system.. Hold on.." -- "Yes, I ran the game right after it went on the live system, and saw the bug =)" < 1293024318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_%28MMOG%29 < 1293024319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he doesn't have any sort of system in place that'd test the binary blob he pushes into the world-wide updates. < 1293024323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How clevur. < 1293024374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"groooan, updated to 1.1_02, mandatory for client and server, fixing the container not opening with empty hands bug [7 minutes ago via web]" < 1293024375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact that it has 4 awards despite the fact that only a combat simulator with next to no of the promised features has been released. < 1293024402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is the first time I've ever seen you actually mocking someone. < 1293024460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293024471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the sort of stuff I do with mcmap, except that I have an audience of, uh, four, instead of 855793. < 1293025415 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293025605 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293025978 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293026579 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293026805 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293027178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293027262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a site seems to have replaced an article with an entirely different article about a vaguely similar subject, in response to it being slashdotted < 1293027336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293027418 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1293027698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as a mathematician, what is your opinion on whether 0 \in N? < 1293027787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it differs by mathematical subject < 1293027873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is round and N is all acute-angly, I don't thing the former belongs in the latter. < 1293027891 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293027936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder if programmers in general (due to the whole zero-indexing thing) are more likely to put 0 in N than a random sampling of other people. Maybe someone should do a poll. < 1293027948 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293028194 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1293028350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:25:26 Yes, just stupidly quadruplicating the $$s into $$$$s makes it work. < 1293028358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I just /replaced/ them with $$s from $$$$s. < 1293028370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough though. < 1293028380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I use do both in template rules and real rules. TODO: fix. < 1293028440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:13 pikhq: i only know of it due to hodgman's association with joco and the list of hobo names < 1293028444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hobo names are in the previous book. < 1293028485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:16 --- join: sexygirl153 (~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #esoteric < 1293028485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:19 --- quit: sexygirl153 (Client Quit) < 1293028487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004 repeats itself < 1293028601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:36 Incidentally, I wonder if programmers in general (due to the whole zero-indexing thing) are more likely to put 0 in N than a random sampling of other people. Maybe someone should do a poll. < 1293028609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think 0 should be in N but accept that it usually isn't < 1293028817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make < 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINK _build/mcmap < 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/cmd.o: No such file or directory < 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/console.o: No such file or directory < 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/main.o: No such file or directory < 1293028818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/map.o: No such file or directory < 1293028820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/protocol.o: No such file or directory < 1293028822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc: _build/world.o: No such file or directory < 1293028824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, regret adding OBJDIR support. < 1293029007 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293029126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh well, actually turns out $$ -> $$$$ works perfectly for everything. Pushed it without realising I'd not done anything else, sorry if that causes conflcits. < 1293029213 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293029216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when things don't work, add more dollars < 1293029222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what escaping format is there that requires quadrupling of dollars? < 1293029260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Makke < 1293029262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Make < 1293029266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Make metaprogramming < 1293029267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact < 1293029315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you're trying to show GNU make TC? < 1293029320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1293029325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is actual code used in an actual project :) < 1293029329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1293029332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the latter because ... I bugged fizzie until he let me put it in < 1293029346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /boring/? I've practically proved GNU make TC /accidentally/ in the process of using it < 1293029354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, if you've ever used GNU make, you will understand is not very usual < 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define clean-recipe < 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(foreach x,$(to-clean),$(call do,RM,$(objdir)/$(x),rm -f $(objdir)/$(x)) < 1293029366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(call do,RMDIR,$(objdir),rmdir $(objdir) 2>/dev/null || true) < 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef < 1293029367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean: ; $(clean-recipe) < 1293029372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that newline before the ) is *required* :) < 1293029380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you must define clean like that ... I'm still not sure why < 1293029394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more used to portable make than GNU make < 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define c-program-body < 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-install += $(1) < 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to-clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d) < 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(objdir)/$(1): $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o) Makefile | $(objdir) ; \ < 1293029403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(call do,LINK,$(objdir)/$(1),$(cc.link) -o $(objdir)/$(1) \ < 1293029404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o)) < 1293029405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if $(cleaning),,-include $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.d)) < 1293029407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef < 1293029409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## $(call c-program,foo,foo.c bar.c) -- compiles foo.c and bar.c into foo < 1293029411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-program = $(eval $(call c-program-body,$(strip $(1)),$(strip $(2)))) < 1293029413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU Make is SO MUCH MORE FUN. < 1293029439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual escaped thing, btw: < 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define do < 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @echo '$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)'; \ < 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(strip $(3)) || ( \ < 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit=$$$$?; \ < 1293029440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo ' (command was: $(strip $(3)))'; \ < 1293029442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit $$$$exit \ < 1293029444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1293029446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef < 1293029590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do hope it's a GNUmakefile and not a Makefile! < 1293029601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You hope wrong :-) < 1293029618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The Makefile itself is perfectly portable to any make with, uh, "include file" and "$(call foo,bar,baz)". < 1293029633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But if it doesn't have its own implementation of useful.make built in, well, I even included a GNU Make one for you. < 1293029644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? It's kindness. < 1293029658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most makes have that stuff? :-P < 1293029689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Only decent ones. Sadly, there are no decent makes. < 1293029691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I'm not entirely certain the deps work; "make ; touch world.h ; make" => Nothing to be done for `all' for the latter case. < 1293029714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm < 1293029739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another objdir-related thing, I believe. < 1293029742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/cmd.d: /usr/include/SDL/SDL_timer.h /usr/include/SDL/SDL_version.h world.h < 1293029742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/console.d: /usr/include/glib-2.0/gio/gzlibdecompressor.h console.h world.h < 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/main.d: common.h protocol.h console.h map.h world.h < 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/map.d: /usr/include/SDL/SDL_timer.h /usr/include/SDL/SDL_version.h world.h < 1293029743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_build/world.d: /usr/include/glib-2.0/gio/gzlibdecompressor.h map.h world.h < 1293029747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed X-D < 1293029751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since "make objdir=. ; touch world.h ; make objdir=." rebuilds the necessary bits. < 1293029754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I swear this thing was perfect and un-buggy before I added objdir. < 1293029757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe me? :P < 1293029779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, am I going to have to set cc's output here? < 1293029810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can give it an objprefix. < 1293029818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1293029818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1293029857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1293029862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why would it be objdir-related? < 1293029887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the CWD in all the .d files' context is the mcmap source tree root. < 1293029892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the filenames are *right*. < 1293029892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just based that judgement on the fact that objdir=. makes it work. < 1293029899 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I think I solved the problem elliott but I have to go < 1293029902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, I agree, I'm just confused. < 1293029904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: awesome! how? < 1293029928 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seems a bit weird but I define equality of objects in terms of equality of morphisms < 1293029938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that sounds really nice < 1293029946 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so A = B is defined as having f : A -> B, g : B -> A, with fg = id and gf = id < 1293029970 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't typed it up yet but we'll see! < 1293029984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: wait < 1293029988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's just a bijection! < 1293029994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's what i've been telling you to do all along :-) < 1293030010 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez you are right < 1293030017 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I remember yuo saying that.. < 1293030036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least i know i'm a perfect, infallible genius now < 1293030037 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think it will work anyway bbl < 1293030041 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1293030063 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the definition of a category simpler too < 1293030066 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293030144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1293030147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.o: world.c \ < 1293030261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit: 1: Illegal number: 4957exit < 1293030266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$L"~!O_)!_)£O_)@~F:! < 1293030293 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293030299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sounds like it got the $$ PID there now. :p < 1293030304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1293030311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know what? I'm making two nearly-identical do functions < 1293030318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with $$, one with $$$$ < 1293030336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to look inside useful.make anwyay. < 1293030340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD < 1293030342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody should < 1293030344 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1293030354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the skeleton in your beautiful build system's closet < 1293030541 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293030884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, hMod is actually beta'd; https://github.com/traitor/Minecraft-Server-Mod/ < 1293030886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not as a release. < 1293030891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Get ineiros intoxicated! < 1293030914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/traitor/Minecraft-Server-Mod/blob/master/build.xml Ahahahant. < 1293030955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Minecraft-Server-Mod] http://bit.ly/gRtj3z Erik Broes - Added item.getDamage()/item.setDamage() < 1293030957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the last one. < 1293031318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might consider adding also "-MT $(objdir)/$*.d" in addition to "-MT $(objdir)/$*.o" (you can use multiple -MTs), that way it should then rebuild the depfile also when any of the headers change. (Currently I think it only rebuilds deps when the associated source file itself changes.) < 1293031384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(objdir)/%.d: %.c Makefile | $(objdir) < 1293031384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(call do,DEP,$<,$(cc.invoke) -M -MG -MT $(objdir)/$*.o -MF $@ $<) < 1293031387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. < 1293031392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you are right, I will do that. < 1293031457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1293031481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "make clean all" still doesn't work, though, because make is astonishingly braindead. < 1293031528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for hMod, I'm not sure even an intoxicated ineiros would care enough to start testing pre-release things. < 1293031556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a theory that ineiros is Notch. < 1293031582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you make very, very sure he's not Swedish? < 1293031606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he doesn't *look* Swedish, but of course you never know. < 1293031611 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181129100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293031664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hell, I've seen *you* (well, in a dream), and you didn't look Finnish! < 1293031686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'm pretty sure you were on the blacker side of brown. So maybe not very accurate. < 1293031702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you wore sunglasses and were bald. < 1293031719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, were you bald or did your hair just look like thick fibre-optic cables... < 1293031726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for heaven's sake, I don't know. < 1293031726 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293031736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's any sort of product to test for Swedishness. < 1293031750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, http://www.amazon.com/Parent-Child-Testing-Product-Pack/dp/B002A6HXL6/ -- "Parent Child Testing Product, 5 Pack", $10035.98. < 1293031759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Erm, Lutefisk : Norwegians :: ? : Swedes? < 1293031796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Man, that parent child testing product looks judgemental. < 1293032519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just had a horriterrible idea. < 1293032568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know the GNU System thing you mentioned? < 1293032811 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181134207.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293033001 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293033175 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293033592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Surströmming. < 1293033600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. < 1293033604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Feed him that and see if he survives. < 1293033633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only a very small group of swedes like surströmming < 1293033633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just checking, you being a lutefisk fan, Surströmming isn't something delicious? :D < 1293033635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know what it is.) < 1293033645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope all of you < 1293033650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the majority think it is weird and wouldn't touch it. < 1293033658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Surstroemmngsklaemma.png every swede eats this every day < 1293033686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I'm no Swede by your definition. Nor is some 90% of the rest of population < 1293033699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course < 1293033711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a local speciality in parts of north Sweden. < 1293033727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by all i've read, surströmming is far more vile than lutefisk < 1293033727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and always beware of that) < 1293033733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, quite < 1293033748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and lutfisk occurs in Sweden to. < 1293033761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, almost none like it these days < 1293033779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :northern sweden sounds like crazy land < 1293033875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite < 1293034397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck is that (and I hope that milk is whole milk...)? < 1293034452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It's DISGUSTINGNESS < 1293034466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surströmming with potatoes, onion on tunnbröd." < 1293034499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Surströmming itself is, of course, rotting fish. < 1293034509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because god dammit, we're Swedes, we're vikings, we're HARDCORE. < 1293034536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In April 2006, several major airlines (such as Air France and British Airways) banned the fish citing that the pressurized cans of fish are potentially explosive. The sale of the fish was subsequently discontinued in Stockholm's international airport. Those who produce the fish have called the airline's decision "culturally illiterate," claiming that it is a "myth that the tinned fish can explode."[6]]] < 1293034541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support cultural illiteracy. < 1293034554 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least pretend that way... Well, in the past, real hardcore people existed... < 1293035190 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lagging in mc is somewhat fixed < 1293035194 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get 40 fps now < 1293035703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as the premier wiki sysop, you should slap cpressey for decreasing the sum total of the world's happiness significantly: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck&curid=1138&diff=20541&oldid=20540 < 1293035832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1293035836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In addition, no well-defined algorithm has yet been devised that a universal Turing machine is demonstrably incapable of executing." --[[Esolang:Turing machine]] < 1293035838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just stupid < 1293035855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either we define well-defined algorithm = list of instructions in a TC language, and it's a tautology < 1293035873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "determine whether a Turing machine halts" is a well-defined algorithm that a UTM is demonstrably incapable of executing < 1293035874 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293035882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone rewrite that < 1293035931 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293036575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because god dammit, we're Swedes, we're vikings, we're HARDCORE. <-- only some madmen up north < 1293036611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What the heck is that (and I hope that milk is whole milk...)? <-- why do you hope that < 1293036705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I just had the mad idea of a brainfuck supercompiler < 1293036743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, if it's not a specialiser I don't acre. < 1293036744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*care. < 1293036770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I was thinking along the lines of partial evaluation < 1293036772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so supercompilers do usually do something close to specialisation.) < 1293036777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Specialisation == partial evaluation. < 1293036809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but it seems rather tricky for bf, since the alias analysis is basically a hell, and figuring out previous state is not always that easy. < 1293036833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes quite < 1293036858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never claimed those were different. < 1293036865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, the more abstract a language it is the better you can compile it (dynamism is a separate factor that makes compilation more difficult; it just happens that more abstract languages tend to be more dynamic). < 1293036876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's hardly surprising that compiling BF well is near-impossible. :p < 1293036882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mutable state makes it a lot trickier too < 1293036899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, mutable state is effectively an anti-abstraction and an element of dynamism, so yeah. < 1293036913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh *looks up what dynamism is exactly* < 1293036924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dynamic languages are very dynamic. < 1293036929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Changing things at runtime = dynamism. < 1293036938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293036945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Scheme's ability to redefine + is dynamism; it makes Scheme harder to compile efficiently, since you can't inline calls to it. < 1293036954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is "things" here code? or data too? < 1293036958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything. < 1293036980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's extreme late binding is dynamism; it makes Smalltalk harder to compile because you have to do a lot of table lookups by strings, rather than hardcoding memory locations to load, store, and jump to. < 1293036991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by /strings/? < 1293037004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; "foo abc: 3" looks up "abc:" in foo and passes it 3. < 1293037015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you change the abc: method, and call whatever method did "foo abc: 3", it will get the new method. < 1293037026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because everything is looked up at the latest possible moment -- right when it's used, i.e. late binding. < 1293037026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you compile identifiers into some table and then use that integer to look up < 1293037028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is dynamism. < 1293037031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an atom table < 1293037036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sort of. < 1293037038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1293037041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not quite that simple. < 1293037044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it was just an example. < 1293037045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1293037048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293037062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but doing it by strings sound incredibly stupid < 1293037071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds* < 1293037073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; I forget how most Smalltalks do it. < 1293037100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now you made me imagine a bashtalk (along the lines of bashforth) < 1293037129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, the insane idea I was going to tell to pikhq but he's not here: GNUGNUGNU/Linux. It's Linux, and then everything on top of that that can feasibly be GNU *IS*. That means even GNU inetutils. Additionally, everything is done The GNU Way, no matter how impractical that is. < 1293037134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance, all package management will be done with GNU stow. < 1293037155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does inetutils contain now again < 1293037159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ping etc. < 1293037162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293037164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stow? < 1293037172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: inetutils is maintained by the *wonderful human being* called ams. < 1293037174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have heard of him. < 1293037191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stow is: < 1293037192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU Stow is a program for managing the installation of software packages, keeping them separate (/usr/local/stow/emacs vs. /usr/local/stow/perl, for example) while making them appear to be installed in the same place (/usr/local)." < 1293037194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the tla sounds familiar, that is all < 1293037206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its design is based on Carnegie-Mellon's Depot. < 1293037207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/manual.html < 1293037228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the separate thing reminds me of gobolinux and such < 1293037241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's a much older concept than that. :p < 1293037247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Stow is positively bleh. < 1293037255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh, have you actually used it? :) < 1293037257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway ams is an IRC jackass and troll. < 1293037272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who is probably rms' secret lover or something. < 1293037276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes; the GNU System testing images used it. < 1293037296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They're HURD-based, though, aren't they? < 1293037305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not familiar < 1293037306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, it's intended to be replaced with Stowfs. < 1293037308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. < 1293037314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I heard ams in some other context < 1293037323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: See, mine is meant for Linux, because then we can SPREAD THE GOSPEL to other platforms. < 1293037332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1293037334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway stow seems like a "good idea" to me apart from the implementation details. < 1293037335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1293037340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i.e. using symlinks. < 1293037349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course it sounded familiar. AMS. < 1293037354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1293037382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which seems to be rather overloaded btw < 1293037450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, stow's actually quite alright aside from implementation details. < 1293037457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: once he asked me a question about C99 and I first quoted POSIX to him, which he said didn't count because it wasn't C99, I pointed out that it was unlikely to contradict the C standard (IIRC it was the behaviour of free(NULL) or something); I then found a C99 draft standard /newer/ (2007) than C99 itself, and quoted that to him, and he said that a draft didn't count since it wasn't C99, I said I don't have a copy of C99 to hand but I doub < 1293037457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t it changed since C99 was published, and then he called me a liar because C99 wasn't published in 2007, and then when I said he was being awfully rude to someone who went out of their way to help, he /ignored me. < 1293037463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is why stowfs was a WIP. < 1293037463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was before I knew who he was. < 1293037466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasant chap. :p < 1293037481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1293037491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Later he started whining at the distro maintainers to make all software in the repositories Free As In FSF because it was an issue of "respect" for your users.) < 1293037500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Apparently he doesn't actually /use/ the distro.) < 1293037509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for POSIX not contradicting, true. However POSIX may define something that C99 leaves undefined. That happened. < 1293037516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although he did ask about progress on a MIPS port, so he could run it on some netbook by the same company as rms' TOTALLY-FREE netbook. < 1293037518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The one he uses.) < 1293037526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~Free As In FSF netbook buddies~ < 1293037532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, as for POSIX not contradicting, true. However POSIX may define something that C99 leaves undefined. That happened. < 1293037534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still. < 1293037568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, I have run into systems that don't follow the C standard on free(NULL). I think they were all ancient or embedded though < 1293037579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, even if it is a behavior unique to POSIX, that's still quite important. < 1293037582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but he was very explicit about wanting C99's take. < 1293037600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, most everything but Windows these days are going to give credence to POSIX. < 1293037607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/is/ < 1293037611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but just lol @ calling someone who quotes a draft of a post-1999 revision to C99 a liar for implying that C99 was published in 2007. < 1293037626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed wtf < 1293037645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, the GNU Operating System seemingly does not include an init system. < 1293037649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least from scanning http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html. < 1293037677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 404! < 1293037677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does hurd use then? < 1293037686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remove the final dot < 1293037689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But anyways, I'm reasonably certain it uses init. < 1293037696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, HURD? I think it just uses a shell script. < 1293037699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SysV. < 1293037702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: 404! < 1293037702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1293037703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 404? < 1293037713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HTTP Error 404! < 1293037715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is file not found < 1293037722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat. < 1293037724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html < 1293037725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ not 404 < 1293037726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: totally not what you meant) < 1293037740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as I said, you probably copied the ending dot on the line < 1293037746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The . at the end got into the link because it's entirely valid! < 1293037754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your client sucks donkey dick! < 1293037765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, quite, but I made my client apply a heurstic at that. < 1293037766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technical term for clients that are too correct about URLs.) < 1293037788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your URL is a giant donkey dick! < 1293037791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have my site have all pages end in .html. < 1293037797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *.html.. < 1293037801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I terminated your sentence for you. < 1293037817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/mdk/ oh man so useful < 1293037839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how some of the software links just go to empty directories. < 1293037859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/myserver/ GNU HTTPD! < 1293037878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's not like GNU only hosts things useful to the GNU system. < 1293037887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, but that's a list of GNU packages. < 1293037896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the bulk of the platonic ideal GNU Operating System. < 1293037898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Here's what it takes to get it into GNU proper: give a FSF copyright assignment. < 1293037903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of it is USELESS. < 1293037906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yes. < 1293037920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. That list is an amazing glob of worthlessness, with like 10 useful things in it. < 1293037928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well. Yeah. < 1293037945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wtf? reddit shows a link on /r/programming/ at +1009 with 852 comments < 1293037952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about it? < 1293037959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I click at it, it's on +0 with 3 comments < 1293037967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cache... but still, wow. < 1293037972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a cache effect < 1293037972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reddit is under heavy load right now, sorry. Try again in a few minutes." < 1293037973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.gnu.org/software/mdk/ oh man so useful <-- missing ending dot! < 1293037985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try again later < 1293038002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/trac/ggc http://codu.org/projects/trac/gggc < 1293038004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's actually happening to every link there < 1293038007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/trac/ggggc < 1293038012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The displayed karma is random. < 1293038012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've figured out Gregor's versioning system. < 1293038016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duplicate the first letter." < 1293038034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prepend g." < 1293038054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe the first one was called c, and it collected everything, not just garbage. < 1293038075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the acronym for that, anyways? < 1293038085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gregor's General-purpose Generational Garbage Collector." < 1293038094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1293038098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gs! < 1293038119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[# Never ever EVER have interior pointers. Ever. EVER. GGGGC relies on all GC pointers being to the base of an object.]] < 1293038122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[[# < 1293038132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any way to relax that? I really want to use GGGGC for this project, but ... < 1293038140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it'd be simpler still to have a GC that required all pointers to be NULL < 1293038146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could just garbage-collect everything on the heap < 1293038146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What if the interior pointers are always to the start of a given element in a structure? < 1293038153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (And I can specify which element at pointer-creation-time.) < 1293038181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Interior pointers make garbage collection both painful and slow. < 1293038232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you need interior pointers? < 1293038233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Let's put it this way: the only kind I really need is "__typeof__(s->x) *foo = gc_pointer_to(s, offsetof(s, x));". < 1293038237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'cuz I do. < 1293038242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1293038243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1293038272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just keep an extra pointer around? < 1293038275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to the base I mean < 1293038330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1293038335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would this even disallow (some_string + n)? < 1293038353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well duh < 1293038361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293038364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way to relax that Gregor? :P < 1293038379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some_string[n] < 1293038386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I need a fix in the _GC_. < 1293038389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note: strings will always have their lengths encoded before them. < 1293038398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the GC will always know where a string ends, even just having a pointer to the start < 1293038407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns. < 1293038415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, elliott: Interior pointers make garbage collection both painful and slow. < 1293038428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the GC will always know the end anyway < 1293038437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as free() does know the end of the allocated block < 1293038441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but in this case it's /one special case/. I realise it won't be as fast, I just need it decent. < 1293038445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll still beat boehm. < 1293038471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is indexing so hard? < 1293038473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1293038488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The question is not "do I need (s+n)?", it's "can I make GGGGGGGGGGGGC support (s+n)?". < 1293038505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know /why/ it is slow to suppor that? < 1293038510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1293038512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support* < 1293038513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes. < 1293038514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid numpad < 1293038532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what XD < 1293038547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed the . numpad key, but numlock was off so it did [del], which did nothing since i was at eol. < 1293038564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the numpad . because I had already completed the sentence, and moved my hands away without realising. < 1293038568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it was the closest .. < 1293038570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*".". < 1293038572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my numpad seems broken btw < 1293038582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow , -> 0 and 0 -> nothing < 1293038588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like my numpad, it gives me bad habits. < 1293038589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1293038601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only recently started being able to type numbers with the normal row. < 1293038623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might just use boehm. < 1293038624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only time I use numpad is for navigation in various games < 1293038627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good enough. < 1293038643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, interior pointers is an option for boehm iirc. And it slows it down even more < 1293038661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presumably on by default due to the commonness of (s+n)... < 1293038696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it is a global-variable-before-GC_init() style of option < 1293038699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1293038708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Default. < 1293038713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1293038714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1293038718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's stupid < 1293038722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1293038722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It tries not to break behavior of anything that's valid C. < 1293038726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s+n) is very common. < 1293038749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it will gleefully change various forms of undefined behavior, which can break programs. < 1293038751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but if you were doing manual memory management you would need a pointer to the base anyway, or you couldn't call free() on it < 1293038929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean using (s+n) temporarily, calling a function with it. < 1293038933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not throwing away s completely from the program. < 1293038941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What, would GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC support that?) < 1293038989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure GGGGC is conservative. < 1293039005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, wait, it'd have to be. < 1293039018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1293039019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It isn't. < 1293039025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then. < 1293039026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have to do all reads and writes through a macro because Gregor is a masochist. < 1293039031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a sadist. But he uses it himself. < 1293039033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So masochist too. < 1293039043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no freaking way you're getting internal pointers to work without much pain and agony. < 1293039059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but is string_function(s+n) okay, as long as you keep a hold of s in the calling function? < 1293039068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news: bsnes's unsupported game list is down by one. < 1293039094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if the parent function still holds a pointer to it? < 1293039099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1293039104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does it move objects around in memory? < 1293039113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, rewrite pointers? < 1293039118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't, then that will work. < 1293039123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I don't see why it is an issue if you also have an internal pointer < 1293039163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fine then. < 1293039179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can OGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC collect garbage in a separate thread, too? :p < 1293039189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, O? < 1293039201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also define each of those Gs you just used < 1293039210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1293039244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OGGGGGGGGGGGGC was just a reference to that OGC name thing. < 1293039253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, OGC? < 1293039258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, http://www.eatliver.com/img/2008/3028.jpg. < 1293039266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK government organisation. < 1293039273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293039300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[A spokesman for OGC said: “It is true that it caused a few titters among some staff when viewed on its side, but on consideration we concluded that the effect was generic to the particular combination of the letters OGC - and it is not inappropriate to an organisation that’s looking to have a firm grip on Government spend.”]] < 1293039309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and it is not inappropriate to an organisation that’s looking to have a firm grip on Government spend." < 1293039327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah wtf about that < 1293039338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's called a joke. < 1293039354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it really that far fetched < 1293039357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so ugh < 1293039364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "that far fetched"? < 1293039366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bloomin' obvious. < 1293039717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1293039726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I must have used a bloom filter then < 1293039736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, bad pun) < 1293039932 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293039948 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293040079 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1293040466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1293041719 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1293041799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293041867 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isomorphism notion is Ob -> Ob -> Type, rather than -> Prop. Do you think that matters? I could redefine what an equivalence relation is to allow Type instead of Prop < 1293041881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yeah i don't think it matters < 1293041885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Coq Prop is rather restricted IMO < 1293041915 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want to go another 300 lines and realize I made a mistake < 1293041985 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and what about equality of maps? should f = g be in Prop or Type? < 1293042053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I think if one thing is in Type all of them should be < 1293042061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: but, is it possible to make the isomorphism -> Prop by restricting it? < 1293042064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, eh, it doesn't matter < 1293042074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I end up putting sets into Type all the time, no reason not to put Props there < 1293042079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq doesn't have proof irrelevance anyway < 1293042119 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for equality of functors, we have F=G meaning that Ff=Gf but Ff : FX -> FY and Gf : GX -> GY < 1293042133 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need a way to cast FX <-> GX < 1293042175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1293042188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems fine to me < 1293042226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is extensive generic (void *) hackery ok with GGGGGGGGGC? < 1293043091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see how any GC can manage that, if it actually collects things < 1293043100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about storing pointers in files and reading them back later? < 1293043126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I just mean having things like linked lists with (void *) elements < 1293043224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, today I learnt that most new Windows software with an auto-updater installs its executables the equivalent of suid root < 1293043229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid UAC prompts when it updates < 1293043233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... defeats the point < 1293043233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293043720 0 :OoS!~John@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1293043723 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1293043733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1293043794 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just clearing out some old computer books to make space for a few new ones :-/ < 1293044050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OoS: BUY MORE BOOKSHELVES < 1293044082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just keep them mixed with a bunch of other books in a pile on the floor < 1293044088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or occasionally, in other people's bedrooms < 1293044101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(general rule of house physics: people are loath to throw out anything in their own bedroom, you can exploit this fact) < 1293044114 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 14 shelves of books (mostly programming / computing / caving) < 1293044138 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus more in boxes / cupboards :-( < 1293044142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's brilliant < 1293044148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1293044172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now progress to Joey Hess stage -- use that for all possessions, and live in yurts < 1293044183 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't work, my girlfriend loves to throw stuff out < 1293044187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal debian-developing hobo status achieved < 1293044204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who is that guy < 1293044225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/ < 1293044228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he wrote the debian-installer < 1293044231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among other things < 1293044241 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I'm getting rid of stuff I likely won't need. Assembly programming books for 68000, 6809... < 1293044246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he lives in a yurt. http://kitenet.net/~joey/yurt/ < 1293044255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh the guy with palm investigation? < 1293044258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah < 1293044265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: his living expenses are flat 0, IIRC < 1293044274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he lives in a yurt. http://kitenet.net/~joey/yurt/ <-- as in, permanently? < 1293044277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1293044291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, somewhere warm I assume? or a hoax? < 1293044304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno how warm it is. Probably relatively. < 1293044308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a hoax, no, he really lives like that < 1293044323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős famously did the "hobo mathematician" thing. < 1293044339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, does he have a more normal house as well? < 1293044344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1293044345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I didn't know that < 1293044350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As I said, his expenses are roughly 0. < 1293044357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mortgage or rent = expense. < 1293044370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aiee! http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/pics/snowyurt.jpg < 1293044374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Possessions meant little to Erdős; most of his belongings would fit in a suitcase, as dictated by his itinerant lifestyle. Awards and other earnings were generally donated to people in need and various worthy causes. He spent most of his life as a vagabond, traveling between scientific conferences and the homes of colleagues all over the world." < 1293044377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "He would typically show up at a colleague's doorstep and announce "my brain is open," staying long enough to collaborate on a few papers before moving on a few days later. In many cases, he would ask the current collaborator about whom he (Erdős) should visit next. His working style has been humorously compared[by whom?] to traversing a linked list." < 1293044377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're a swede, be more hardcore. < 1293044391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, we have thick walls for a reason < 1293044398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VIKING < 1293044399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's around -25 C outside now < 1293044402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VIKING < 1293044406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not :P < 1293044448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's -12.75 in Otaniemi now (it's far easier to browse to outside.hut.fi than to amble to the thermometer in the window), but they've predicted -15 to -25 for christmas. < 1293044483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh ofc, I forgot ikiwiki < 1293044486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he wrote ikiwiki too < 1293044502 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yurt looks cool. I've slept in worse places. < 1293044524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kinda cool to do the hobo thing, but i need an internet connection... and heating < 1293044531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1293044534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good internet connection, rather < 1293044548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got both :-P < 1293044550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, outside.hut.fi should really respond to finger requests, that's how all the cool internet-connected coffee pots / cola vending machines / etc. used to be connected. < 1293044552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see image on the page you linked < 1293044570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what XD < 1293044582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I see no evidence of a /good/ internet connection < 1293044591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see no evidence of a bad one < 1293044597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ethernet < 1293044605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's America, isn't it? < 1293044608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's gonna be like 2 Mbit. < 1293044609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293044611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who knows where the ethernet goes < 1293044618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably to a *HOUSE*? < 1293044619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Into a dead badger, obviously. < 1293044621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running Linux. < 1293044629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's some way away from a friend's house or something. < 1293044635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1293044637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have his living situation exactly memorised, that would be creepy :P < 1293044645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See for example the finger RFC (1288) chapter 2.5.5 "Vending machines": http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1288.txt < 1293044645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -12? that's nothing < 1293044662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow to load < 1293044690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IETF tends to be. There's faster places to get RFCs from, of course. < 1293044711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait a second.... this isn't april < 1293044714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so wtf < 1293044727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fingering vending machines sounds a bit niche. < 1293044736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what all the cool universities had. < 1293044766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vending machines should NEVER NEVER EVER eat money." <-- this make it sound like a joke rfc (it is too unrealistic) < 1293044774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had one Internet book from the pre-web era, it listed a few fingerable vending machines around the world. < 1293044780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, doesn't fit into a serious rfc, would use MUST then) < 1293044793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1293044837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very useful to see how many bottles of cola there are in some California university's cs department's corridor X. < 1293044839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sound implementation of Finger is of the utmost importance. Implementations should be tested against various forms of attack. In particular, an RUIP SHOULD protect itself against malformed inputs. Vendors providing Finger with the operating system or network software should subject their implementations to penetration testing." < 1293044850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that last sentence sounds.... < 1293044874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, was finger named to maximise uncomfortableness of using the names?) < 1293045026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earnest named his program after the idea that people would run their fingers down the who list to find what they were looking for. < 1293045047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The earliest Finger RFC (742) from 1977 is pretty non-modern; port numbers in octal and it isn't really much of a protocol at that point. < 1293045149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone write port numbers in octal? < 1293045187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ICP to socket 117 (octal, 79. decimal) and establish two 8-bit connections." < 1293045312 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1293045320 0 :micahjohnston!~Adium@174-23-72-242.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293045326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Earnest named his program after the idea that people would run their fingers down the who list to find what they were looking for. < 1293045327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1293045331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the stupidest etymology ever. < 1293045386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ICP? < 1293045434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't really know what it refers to; I strongly suspect it's not the modern web-cache thing. < 1293045449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC123 speaks of ICPs. < 1293045453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know the modern meaning either < 1293045470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICP was on ARPANET < 1293045483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program < 1293045504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293045533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Anyway, the ICP socket number 79 does match the current Finger TCP port number, so I guess they just reused that. < 1293045574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe ICP socket numbers used to be in octal, then. < 1293045683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders if some day this "HTTP" thing will sound equally quaint and historical. < 1293045704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would hope so. < 1293045738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had to use your hands? etc. < 1293045755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds even dirtier! < 1293045762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video Game Boy #1: You mean you have to use your hands? < 1293045763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video Game Boy #2: That's like a baby's toy! < 1293045769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Thank imdb for the really-useful character names.) < 1293045786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what movie is it from? < 1293045799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bttfii. < 1293045806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced "butt-fee", clearly. < 1293045830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh back to the future < 1293045832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293045836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ages since I saw that < 1293045848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number two. :p < 1293045857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also ages ago I saw it < 1293045867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was it 3 in total? I don't remember < 1293045869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah: http://www.theasylum.cc/product.php?id=174 Titanic II. < 1293045875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything The Asylum won't push out? < 1293045883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Unless they've made Bttfiv. < 1293045898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "the asylum"? < 1293045960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The people who brought you such quality films as "The Da Vinci Treasure", "Pirates of Treasure Island", "Snakes on a Train", "AVH: Alien vs Hunter", "Transmorphers", "The Terminators" and "Paranormal Entity". < 1293045970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes with ROBOTIC DINOSAURS. < 1293045971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, snakes on a train? < 1293045975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Asylum < 1293045977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1293045979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I never heard of any of these movies < 1293045985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No -- but you may have heard of < 1293045990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Da Vinci Code < 1293045993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirates of the Caribbean < 1293045995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snakes on a Plain < 1293045999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alien vs Predator < 1293046000 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Plain/Plane/ < 1293046001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transformers < 1293046002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, the first is a book and suchs < 1293046003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminator < 1293046004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks* < 1293046006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Paranormal Activity. < 1293046007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course < 1293046013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not the last one < 1293046017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the other ones < 1293046027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Now observe: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Quartermainskulls.jpg < 1293046059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you understand what The Asylum does. < 1293046061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what an obvious rip off < 1293046063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, probably.) < 1293046079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how come lucasfilm didn't sue them? < 1293046081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but to be fair, the Sherlock Holmes film that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_%282010_film%29 rips off did NOT have exploding dinosaurs, as far as I am aware. < 1293046083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or is it parody? < 1293046089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not parody... well, sort of. < 1293046124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's hard to distinguish the two sides close to the line dividing super-blatant, super-terrible ripoffs and super-blatant, super-terrible ripoffs that make fun of themselves. < 1293046141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But god dammit, ROBOTIC DINOSAURS. < 1293046164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As to where this film fits into the Canon of Sherlock Holmes is unclear." --Wikipedia < 1293046169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1293046179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the BEST PLACE. < 1293046237 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293046239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293046243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not to be confused with Sherlock Holmes (2009 film)." I was confused there a bit; I saw some Sherlock Holmes trailers somewhere, and wondered how I managed to miss exploding dinosaurs. < 1293046262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: UNFORTUNATELY YOU SAW ONLY THE TRAILERS FOR THE INFERIOR MOVIE < 1293046272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I would rather watch the terrible one with exploding dinosaurs. < 1293046276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inferior movie looked quite silly too. < 1293046322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, purely based on the trailer it looked like it was more explosions and action and so on, whereas from the "Sherlock Holmes" part I was expecting something, you know, that'd have involved, I don't know, thinking. < 1293046355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trailers tend to concentrate on explosions and action. < 1293046391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always dislike trailers for that reason < 1293046392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: From what I've heard it was actually a pretty good film. < 1293046400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was. < 1293046401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Supposedly they slowed some of the fight sequences to fit more thinking in there. :p < 1293046413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want a bad trailer? < 1293046414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7tU8JME_g < 1293046416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Office Space's. < 1293046418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, and Holmes is a pretty active guy even in the books; it just looked somewhat overdone. < 1293046451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...comes a movie about people who go to work" You know, I don't recall Office Space involving very much going to work at all. < 1293046526 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Sherlock Holmes actually got pretty good writeups according to WP/ < 1293046532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: fizzie: From what I've heard it was actually a pretty good film. < 1293046534 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Asylum's version. < 1293046538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1293046539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1293046565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CIA sets up Wikileaks Task Force. They're calling it WTF." < 1293046588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .. are they trying to put the entire plot in the trailer? < 1293046593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is that from? < 1293046599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty much. < 1293046600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: reddit. < 1293046604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/21/AR2010122105498.html < 1293046607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Officially, the panel is called the WikiLeaks Task Force. But at CIA headquarters, it's mainly known by its all-too-apt acronym: W.T.F." < 1293046618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1293046683 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: the Asylum's film titles are utterly hilarious. < 1293046844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANSMORPHERS < 1293046899 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something seriously messed up with my graphics drivers. < 1293046951 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then fix it < 1293046952 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhhh < 1293046979 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1293046988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YO ARE YOU THERE < 1293046995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never < 1293047115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, websplat on google results pages is weird < 1293047135 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293047151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's how Google does images. < 1293047163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1293047184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does SPS actually work at all? < 1293047190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, correction. < 1293047202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How easy would it be to port SPS to non-apt? < 1293047228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, um, oh, it looks like you've thrown out all the code... which was in D. < 1293047237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IRRELEVANT < 1293047322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the flags on http://wiki.inspircd.org/Main_Page don't get the proper yellow border < 1293047324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea why? < 1293047349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, they don't seem to use !important < 1293047443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What on earth has that got to do with Gregor. < 1293047503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, websplat... < 1293047509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1293047544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was mentioned less than 1/5th of a screenful above < 1293047890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Vorpal assumes that everyone has the same setup as him < 1293048133 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293048280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PING. < 1293048375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my OS makes it unnecessarily ugly to write haskell code < 1293048399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, even on a small monitor it would be in the same screenfull < 1293048414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you mean? < 1293048435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: all the OS' structures are strict, and it has several unsafe operations due to them being immutable < 1293048453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for instance, a directory can't be a lazy tree accessed purely, because it can change, and it's evaluated strictly < 1293048462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning efficient directory-traversing haskell code has to iterate, impurely < 1293048529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, what does directory traversing haskell code do now normally? < 1293048603 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what OS? < 1293048716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: any :) < 1293048718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Be ugly? < 1293048727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do a lot of IO, basically. < 1293049044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh < 1293049061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what < 1293049076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What was that latest ping, the one that wasn't discovering that SPS killed itself :P < 1293049162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nothing at all, I just wanted to see you try and answer my question that is now a non-question. < 1293049166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever finished adventure? < 1293049214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in. /usr/games/adventure < 1293049218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1293049223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: navigation and spelunking < 1293049225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my two mortal enemies < 1293049239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... why do you play minecraft then? < 1293049261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CUBE < 1293049262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I find adventure somewhat hard to navigate in, simply because it is textual. I can't really visualise where I am thus < 1293050047 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-45.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293050048 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1293050393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, the repeal of DADT has been signed into law. < 1293050431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I say "In other news"? < 1293050448 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Did you or I start saying it first? < 1293050467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1293050632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone made a page with what xyzzy did in hundreds of different text adventure games < 1293050655 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293050877 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293050883 0 :calamari_!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293050917 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1293050925 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1293050929 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1293051158 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1293051391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Mercan < 1293051408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Merca "Songist" < 1293051414 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note insanity. < 1293051465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Bodily_excretion < 1293051469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FAVOURITE BODILY SECRETIONS < 1293051531 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: < 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Bodily_excretion < 1293051666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY FAVOURITE BODILY SECRETIONS < 1293051675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doodie, nightwater, smells, nosechewiw and misstrasauce. < 1293051703 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is creepu. < 1293051706 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*creepy < 1293051708 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And insane. < 1293051717 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1293051735 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293051780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IS creepu. < 1293051810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most crêpe thing I have ever seen. < 1293051820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previous versions had "Menstrual blood" < 1293051829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the top? :p < 1293051838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no :( < 1293051840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, no, he hates menstrual blood. < 1293051847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sadly? Are you like, a fan of menstrual blood? < 1293051862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Jesus_%28carnation_Norm_Chomskywalker%29 < 1293051867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1293051871 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1293051888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy doesn't seriously think he's a yeti, does he? < 1293051895 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has cut deeply through his vaguely-manifested sanity. < 1293051901 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He loves Noam Chomsky. < 1293051911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Chomsky. < 1293051921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/EncyclopediaDracula apparently ed gives you diarrhoea < 1293051925 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He really likes Chomsky. < 1293051929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the dramatica sense, not the... other sense. < 1293051934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody add Santorum to that bodily-excretions list :P < 1293051940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Norm_Chompsky < 1293051944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW MANY CHOMSKY ARTICLES ARE THERE < 1293051952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Chomsky < 1293051953 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FAR TOO MANY < 1293051964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Mostsade what < 1293051974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But sandorum is only partly excretion! < 1293051979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *santorum < 1293051983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to get this guy some mental health help? < 1293051994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Free software vs closed source" ;; rms would cry at this title < 1293051997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's only partially /bodily/, it's all excretion in that it's excreted. < 1293052003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I like him just how he is < 1293052011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You excrete lube? < 1293052013 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the thing is, he's been showing some sanity lately. < 1293052039 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, actual, coherent, well-thought-out arguments. < 1293052039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Excreted just means that it comes out of the body, and after the acts that produce santorum, that's where it comes from :P < 1293052059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Venn Diagram correct? < 1293052063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure. ARGUABLY < 1293052080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clearly we must EXPERIMENT to determine for sure. Who volunteers?! < 1293052109 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what Venn diagram? < 1293052118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, the wiki logo < 1293052126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it display all possible combinations? < 1293052171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So, how easy would a HYPOTHETICAL SPS IMPLEMENTATION be to port to non-APT? < 1293052172 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is... that is not a Venn diagram. I don't think it's *meant* to be a Venn diagram. < 1293052191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/File:Dude.jpg it is dude < 1293052202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most of SPS wasn't apt-related at all, it just used that to make guesses about versions. < 1293052202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not the phattest tom, really. < 1293052207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And to install packages :P < 1293052229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more-or-less independent of SPS proper. < 1293052247 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FUN FACT: that is a real picture of the King of the Dudes. < 1293052250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good; how long until SPS 2 is out. < 1293052256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: i.e. you < 1293052265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Seven billion years. < 1293052273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I pay you to make it go faster? < 1293052277 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, some 19th-Centure New York socialite. < 1293052287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centure? < 1293052288 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Century < 1293052289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, you'll bring it down to three billion years. < 1293052289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A journalist of the New York American, Blakely Hall, made Wall famous, proclaiming him in 1888 "King of the Dudes" for having won the "Battle of the Dudes" against Robert "Bob" Hilliard, another sartorial dude when, during the blizzard of 1888, he strode into a bar clad in gleaming boots of patent leather that went to his hips.[4] Nevertheless, some historians still consider it was Hilliard who won that dude battle.[8]" < 1293052296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How much money for three weeks? < 1293052296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a centaur? < 1293052316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, there isn't enough money. < 1293052320 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I love that quote. < 1293052334 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It still needs to be based on SOME packaging system y'know :P < 1293052335 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose that there was enough money. < 1293052342 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much money would that be? < 1293052363 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Creating more money just decreases its value, the fundamental issue is that there's not enough /value/ in the universe. < 1293052387 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose there was enough value. < 1293052392 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much value would that be? < 1293052397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have said that the universe isn't large enough to store the smallest possible description < 1293052403 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In valunits). < 1293052447 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Sadly, the limitation of the speed of light prevents anyone from getting that much value to me in less than three weeks, and also if formed into a sphere, its radius would be greater than three lightweeks. < 1293052472 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose the speed of light was big enough. < 1293052478 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big would it have to be? < 1293052517 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the tactical mind of the guy who wrote the navy reserve expansion to Oolite. < 1293052518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Changing the speed of light would be a fundamental enough change to the universe that value would reduce proportionally. < 1293052541 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tactics seem to be "let's fly VERY SLOWLY at the enemy until they come into radar range!" < 1293052579 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't want to associate fundamental constants any more today. < 1293052729 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent a depressing amount of my life convincing my chemistry teacher that yes, changing the fine structure constant /would/ affect the rate of enzyme function. < 1293052821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What would you estimate is the value of a brick of antigold? < 1293052860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty damned valuable, but we couldn't store it, so it would be far more likely to destroy the Earth and therefore decrease overall global value. < 1293052903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure we could. I went to the frictionless pully store and got myself a vacuum bottle for it. < 1293053047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, let us suppose the value constant of the universe was big enough. How big would it have to be? < 1293053056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's dimensionless) < 1293053323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: It still needs to be based on SOME packaging system y'know :P < 1293053327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just factor out the few functions it needs. < 1293053396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover__: Sadly, the limitation of the speed of light prevents anyone from getting that much value to me in less than three weeks, and also if formed into a sphere, its radius would be greater than three lightweeks. < 1293053402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It does not matter that the money gets to you in 3 weeks. < 1293053406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only that it is completed 3 weeks after it arrives. < 1293053450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, what is cunionfs that unionfs isn't < 1293053451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1293053481 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1293053659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://ishmodupdated.com/ < 1293053684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a blind, retarded hamster I support this motion of equality. < 1293053710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cunionfs is a per-process union FS. Every process may see a unique union. < 1293053721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ahh. So it's Plan 9, implemented in FUSE. < 1293053727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes? < 1293053739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Plan 9's namespaces, but same thing :P < 1293053785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1293053820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just supposed to be the /usr-mounting part of SPS, the rest is what chooses what to union there, installs things, etc, but then I decided "blar" and din't reimplement the rest :P < 1293053835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, you should make it based on an arbitrary function rather than just getpid. < 1293053846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That would be COOL. and impractical and COOL. < 1293053925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And impossible to do in FUSE. < 1293053932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason it's possible with FUSE is that I have /proc < 1293054053 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if a Slashes program ends with \, it simply stops. < 1293054058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Right. < 1293054067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is an FS kernel module so hard? :P < 1293054092 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And //foo/ terminating immediately would be special behavior, it seems. < 1293054111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: //foo/ infinite loops, no? < 1293054118 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I should think so. < 1293054120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no idea, I've never written any kernel code. < 1293054130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ask ais523, his students are writing a KEYLOGGER! < 1293054134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite this not being possible with vanilla linux < 1293054136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooooooh < 1293054138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhh < 1293054157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And despite them being so incompetent as to write size_t for sizeof because Eclipse completed size as that. < 1293054162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Note: They are Masters' students.) < 1293054190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured with that kind of incompetence they had to be PhD students. < 1293054221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In the UK we optimise incompetence on all levels. < 1293054565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is cunionfs actually stable? :P < 1293054771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I, uh ... < 1293054775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound good. < 1293054921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked cunionfs itself was pretty solid. < 1293055007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can I call it cuneiformfs? < 1293055019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not stop you from renaming it :P < 1293055026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "last I checked" -- has it got less stable since then? :P < 1293055044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that the FUSE APIs have changed in incompatible ways :P < 1293055080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How old is it exactly? X-D < 1293055090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older than time itself. < 1293055131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 months apparently < 1293055133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 2009 -- older than time itself. < 1293055135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1293055155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:05 Changeset [3:3045e8c02021] by Gregor Richards < 1293055156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cunionfs/cunionfs.c: Support for symlinks. < 1293055170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see that by the end of its development it had already been feature-complete for quite a while! < 1293055174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, for a whole two revisions. < 1293055312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe I'll just use stow :P < 1293055325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't care. < 1293055337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But how will you get my royalty money < 1293055339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*money? < 1293055411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In principle SPS is like stow, minus the fact that stow has a rather "static" view of the installed directory. SPS just lets multiple users see different views. Since that's almost always useless in "non-enterprise" settings anyway, do whateverTF you want. < 1293055418 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's cunionfs? < 1293055434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I /am/ an Enterprise and I want to give you five billion monies. < 1293055452 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: The only component of SPS I ever ported to C :P < 1293055459 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPS? < 1293055467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: cunionfs is a unionfs that lets each process see its own union. < 1293055474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: SPS is dead. Long live SPS. < 1293055477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cunionfs is leftist scum, basically. < 1293055486 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do I get five billion monies for writing gravity? < 1293055488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down with the unions! < 1293055494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: No. You get six! < 1293055508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Did you ever do collision? < 1293055516 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in a sense! < 1293055542 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If two point masses (i.e. black holes) collide, the system divides by zero and crashes. < 1293055559 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like in real life! < 1293055560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: I ... I really hope our universe works like that. < 1293055585 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: I am unsure if singularities actually "exist" in GR. < 1293055617 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that they are either entirely in your past or in your future, so they can't really do anything. < 1293055694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Make it instead blow everything up. < 1293055697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashing is so boring. < 1293055715 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, blowing things up? That'll be 20 gajillion moneys. < 1293055722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://ishmodupdated.com/ < 1293055723 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*monies < 1293055742 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you do that? < 1293055750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1293055753 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/ < 1293055763 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A correlation! < 1293055770 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is the causal relation... < 1293055785 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Thatcher wasn't dead, then hmod wasn't updated. < 1293055800 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So logically, killing Thatcher will update hMod. < 1293055805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be no, not not. < 1293055841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's "NOT YET". < 1293055844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My zoom broke it. < 1293055876 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sooo. < 1293055885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: ? < 1293055895 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how to do the collision mechanics for non-trivial shapes. < 1293055949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Make a rectangle. Collide that rectangle. < 1293055954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the rectangle slightly smaller than the object. < 1293055960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor can attest to this method's effectiveness. < 1293055973 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebSplat's collision detection is the suck < 1293055980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for working well, yes, yes it is :P < 1293056002 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, surely compiled CL can be a little more decadent than JS? < 1293056032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please explain to Phantom_Hoover__ that rectangle collision is how the world works. < 1293056044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, "the world" being "2D games" < 1293056047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*games". < 1293056063 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the big problem with that is that it handles rotation horribly. < 1293056081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Why? < 1293056089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate the rectangle. < 1293056104 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and then how do you actually *check* if there's a collision? < 1293056132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: "Does this rectangle intersect with this other rectangle?" < 1293056200 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't think of an efficient way to do so that doesn't extend to arbitrary polygons. < 1293056213 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least triangles and ellipses. < 1293056248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_detection#Video_games < 1293056253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: You don't tilt the rectangles, obviously. < 1293056258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still keep the lines straight. < 1293056274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate the rectangle and interpolate from that to make another rectangle; at least that's what /I'd/ do. < 1293056275 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You just rotate the rectangle. < 1293056279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, yes, shut up. < 1293056292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Of course you could do arbitrary collision and it'd probably work... but surely there are more worthwhile things to spend CPU time on. < 1293056309 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically we're back to "split shape up into lots of little rectangles and use rectangle method." < 1293056320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1293056324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One rectangle per shape. < 1293056332 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you tilt? < 1293056334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, ehh, I may be wrong, ask Gregor :P < 1293056341 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rotate? < 1293056345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Tilt the rectangle; from that, compute another, straight-edged rectangle, with the approximate same dimensions. < 1293056355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can do this without actually tilting the rectangle, obviously.) < 1293056371 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do not understand what you are saying at all. < 1293056378 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of diagram is in order. < 1293056392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Don't worry -- I don't either. < 1293056441 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, last thing: do we want accurateish physics or speed? < 1293056469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: If we can get 30fps with semi-decent hardware (i.e. better than our laptops) I'm happy with it. < 1293056473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's in Amber, not Lisp. < 1293056485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: (I think programming the whole world to a 30 Hz tick is the simplest.) < 1293056506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But, eh -- do general polygon collision. < 1293056508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might just be fast enough. < 1293056521 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do that! < 1293056525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: But if bullets are objects too, then we might be looking at thousands of objects at once :P < 1293056527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: So figure it out! < 1293056529 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically how this got started! < 1293056532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Okay fine. < 1293056535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Do it any way you want. < 1293056538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just google :P < 1293056547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Polygon_Collision < 1293056548 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how would you do this. < 1293056554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete with broken images, but there you go. < 1293056563 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1293056566 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In order to prevent embarrassing situations where game objects move right through each other without even noticing, a lot of games utilize some kind of collision detection system. ]] < 1293056591 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshht. < 1293056612 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, bullets I think would be done as a specialised kind of object. < 1293056638 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With negligible mass or something, and when they hit something they disappear. < 1293056650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: http://www.flipcode.com/archives/Basic_Collision_Detection.shtml < 1293056656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pogopixels.com/blog/2d-polygon-collision-detection/ < 1293056704 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think we should kind of map out what game we want to make. < 1293056716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: I HAVE NO IDEA YOU'VE REELED ME INTO THIS WITH GRAVITY < 1293056727 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. multiplayer deathmatch or something a bit more lasting? < 1293057093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there a way to use OGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC without having it automatically-pointer-typedef the defined structures and similar magic? < 1293057174 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1293057199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know about GCC nested functions, right? < 1293057222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested functions are hilarious < 1293057229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way they're implemented (read: not) < 1293057250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Right. Returning them is non-kosher, right? < 1293057255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: very < 1293057259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they live on the stack < 1293057299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hmm. Can one use __builtin_whatever to access gcc's implementation of Ayn Rand^W^WObjectivist-C blocks from a non-Shrugging-Atlas language? < 1293057307 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IIRC the GCC manual says "you can pass the function pointer if you want, but really bad things will happen if you call it after the parent function's stack frame has exited." < 1293057310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Those copy, I think. < 1293057318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blocks? < 1293057328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those have their own fun < 1293057333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Meaning? < 1293057354 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: their implementation is different < 1293057361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Precisely. < 1293057365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a __block variable IIRC is actually heap-allocated < 1293057367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can I access their implementation outside of Objective-C? < 1293057370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ref-counted < 1293057372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -fblocks < 1293057373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care how ugly or difficult it is. < 1293057379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Does that just ... enable them in regular C? < 1293057383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1293057389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Awesome. < 1293057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (Is there a reason it isn't awesome?) < 1293057398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm wait < 1293057402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gcc doesn't appear to have it < 1293057405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang does though < 1293057408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a clang thing. < 1293057410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc -fblocks < 1293057410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: no input files < 1293057416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, does gcc have anything similar? < 1293057420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /can/ use clang ... if I have to. < 1293057425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: blocks are implemented in some GCCs aren't they? < 1293057439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gcc complaining about no input files trumps gcc complaining about other options < 1293057445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh < 1293057455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Apple added them to clang directly, didn't they? < 1293057458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, sometimes gcc will compile before finding out it doesn't know what an option does < 1293057464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had thought they were in some GCCs < 1293057466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong < 1293057475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1293057481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang certainly does < 1293057484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=objective-c+blocks+gcc&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a < 1293057484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and certainly has -fblocks < 1293057486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like it < 1293057487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also -foverloading) < 1293057494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: maybe just in Apple's gcc? < 1293057498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe < 1293057504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the source would have to be available < 1293057507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unlikely < 1293057520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: basically I'm implementing a language that compiles down to "something gcc or clang (depending on which I pick) accepts" < 1293057524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Apple knows better than to piss RMS off by trying to avoid the GPL) < 1293057526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and it has lambdas. < 1293057527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1293057535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks sound like a reasonable solution < 1293057545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293057553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i'd rather stick with gcc for ... little reason other than being a luddite < 1293057555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and overloading) < 1293057563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: overloading for what? < 1293057567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: functions of course < 1293057579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what, why would I enable that? < 1293057588 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I'm trolling you < 1293057596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :p < 1293057597 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of a good Minecraft server? < 1293057609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: yes, I know of one. < 1293057610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: {} < 1293057616 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1293057631 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, care to divulge this information with me? < 1293057633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I actually think my language might have function overloading, but it'd be done at the compiler level < 1293057638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha2: nope! it's down anyway < 1293057649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm already doing my own mangling, for namespaces. < 1293057650 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1293057657 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I can't imagine a meta-compiler getting a lot out of -foverloading < 1293057686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I wonder how hard it is to add gdb support for a language. :) < 1293057697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly just demangling, since I think #line and the like will already have gdb show the correct source lines) < 1293057698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:I wonder too... :p < 1293057714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about expression evaluation? < 1293057718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb can't do that for C < 1293057720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less your language < 1293057740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: let's just say that gdb has its own little language and leave it at that :P < 1293057750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm still using C structs and stuff... well, depends how much Gregor's GGGGGGGGC mangles structs < 1293057753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how much does it mangle structs? < 1293058506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, for what it is worth, I talked with a prof doing compsci (the "mathy" kind of compsci even) some days ago, and I asked about the issue with what TC really is (mentioning the example with "one-program-only" languages). He said that the original definition of turing-complete really had no concept of input separate from the program, thus it being somewhat ill-defined. < 1293058537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. But I don't see how you can formulate ais523's proof without some notion of input. < 1293058558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however, he argued that input should /probably/ be considered part of the program < 1293058587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes, but I can't see how to word ais523's proof without it. < 1293058607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe the proof doesn't work then? < 1293058627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I mean, I can't see how you'd even /state/ the false proof without having a notion of input. < 1293058638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1293058653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong. < 1293058662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can maybe just rewrite: < 1293058669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is about the price I presume? < 1293058676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run([P], I) as run([P(I)]). < 1293058682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where [...] means "the language's equivalent of". < 1293058687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do you define that for brainfuck? or a CA? < 1293058689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The price of what? < 1293058693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the prize. Yes. < 1293058694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wolfram? < 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : run([P], I) as run([P(I)]). < 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Where [...] means "the language's equivalent of". < 1293058699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But how do you define that for brainfuck? or a CA? < 1293058699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, damn english < 1293058723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about the details of that prize proof to make any sort of constructive comment with regards to it < 1293058734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and brainfuck is easy. It is fine without IO. P'' < 1293058744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you meant < 1293058749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you do not understand at all. < 1293058764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what did you mean? < 1293058778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say our current form is run(P,I) where P is the program string and I is the input. Let [Q] denote a program string with semantics equivalent to the mathematical expression Q. < 1293058786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's say the input-less run is run'. < 1293058789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can rewrite: < 1293058796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run([P], I) as run'([P(I)]). < 1293058800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293058803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not know how to define [f(x)] for e.g. Brainfuck, cellular automata, etc. < 1293058818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, classical for brainfuck P(I) would be P+"@"+I iirc < 1293058822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Brainfuck you'd have to do a lot of tape-tracking probably. < 1293058826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...wow, you really don't understand at all. < 1293058832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh you meant like that < 1293058834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293058835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you do that why remove input from the equation? < 1293058839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd gain nothing. < 1293058881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1293058921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for a CA, what would be P be? the initial state? The rules? < 1293058947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the former, but then that seems the same as input < 1293059004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yeah it is a tricky issue in general. < 1293059019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: P would be the initial state. < 1293059021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are the language. < 1293059026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial state = program < 1293059027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1293059031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, CAs don't have input. < 1293059033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So bad example. < 1293059040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, that is why I got confused < 1293059103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, I don't think we can define TC sensibly with I/O. Imagine hooking a bf, somehow crippled to be non-TC (exactly how is not important for the concept), but able to do IO to something able to do TC calculations < 1293059146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was Sgeo's bf thing called now again? < 1293059159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same idea basically (except with something more interesting) < 1293059173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, still, I don't think we can define TC sensibly with I/O. Imagine hooking a bf, somehow crippled to be non-TC (exactly how is not important for the concept), but able to do IO to something able to do TC calculations < 1293059180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure; the combination of those two is TC. < 1293059185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1293059189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC + non-TC system = TC. < 1293059403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unrelatedly, got a better way to write this C99 program? http://sprunge.us/BLMO < 1293059425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not in a C-ish mode really atm. but I'll take a look < 1293059454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's err... interesting < 1293059461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :P < 1293059482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't figure out how to do it in one assignment. < 1293059485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never used variable length elements at the end of structs that were not only allocated dynamically < 1293059498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you could probably do that < 1293059507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I thought you wanted to avoid the extra struct < 1293059509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is harder < 1293059514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes, I would rather. < 1293059528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I'll probably end up dynamically allocating it and copying the string in. < 1293059532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1293059539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteString *str = malloc(sizeof ByteString + 3); < 1293059542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str->length = 3; < 1293059544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str->alloc = 3; < 1293059552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strcpy(str->bytes, "abc"); < 1293059553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got a hunch how to do it in one assignment. I have no clue how to do it without defining a new struct type < 1293059559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One assignment would be cool. < 1293059569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, need to look something up for it < 1293059599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (funge_vector) { .x = x, .y = y }; < 1293059604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can do that sort of stuff < 1293059614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (btw, this makes splint go mad :D) < 1293059625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you could use the same general idea here < 1293059643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I already tried that. < 1293059647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't cast a struct. < 1293059649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That syntax is LIES. < 1293059659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can't even do < 1293059662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteString x = { ... } < 1293059663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah... so it's rather special cased syntax < 1293059667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it thinks "abc" is non-constant < 1293059671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the pointer could be ANYTHOMG!! < 1293059673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1293059675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err < 1293059680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1293059680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a pointer to something you need to allocate storage for it, you can't do that in one assignment < 1293059690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True. < 1293059692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can assign a constant string, you just did: __str0_v = {3,3,"abc"}; < 1293059695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's compiler output anyway. So no big deal. < 1293059696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1293059701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not with ByteString < 1293059704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VLAs are special < 1293059706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the retarded sense < 1293059707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah right < 1293059720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not make it a char*, then you could I think < 1293059723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cost char* < 1293059733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because that's another memory allocation for no reason? < 1293059747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it would make an extra pointer < 1293059763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but the string would go in .rodata < 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ByteString *str = malloc(sizeof ByteString + 3); < 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : str->length = 3; < 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : str->alloc = 3; < 1293059778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(str->bytes, "abc", 3); < 1293059780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should do. < 1293059782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, suggestion: don't use C < 1293059784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str can be reallocated willy-nilly anyway. < 1293059787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's COMPILER OUTPUT. < 1293059793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah... < 1293059796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LLVM IR! < 1293059798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not writing a compiler that compiles to Haskell, that would just be ridiculous. < 1293059800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ugh < 1293059805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1293059807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm doing lambdas, you know! :p < 1293059812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compiling to haskell sounds fun < 1293059814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which means I'm probably using clang, for its blocks-in-C support. < 1293059826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not use pikhq's code for that < 1293059827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1293059840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't he even have closures < 1293059855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not ones you could return. < 1293059860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is KINDA IMPORTANT < 1293059961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[They never go back to fix bugs where they occur. They write new code to workaround the earlier failure case. I asked why they don't go back and just fix the bug where it happens. I was told "We can't go back and change it. That code's already done!" Their solution for insuring that failing code will be able to get to its workaround is the GOTO statement. GOTO is sprinkled liberally around other code, pointing to functions and routines that do n < 1293059961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot exist yet. If, down the road, it is discovered that the old code has a bug, they find out which GOTOs exist in that code that do not point to anything yet, pick one, and write the workaround there.]] < 1293059964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've clearly never heard of COME FROM. < 1293060038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if (Gregor) GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGC works with clang. < 1293060053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know what everyone loves??? NAME MANGLING < 1293060502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can return the nested function pointers so long as they don't close. < 1293060514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... there are some reasonable cases for it. something like module_func_arity could work for some languages, except the one I know that would want that allows any valid atom for module and function name < 1293060522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which is why my code did manual management of closing instead of using GCC's closing. < 1293060527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M2myM7awesome_function < 1293060545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's technically not guaranteed to work at all, it just happens to. < 1293060546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but what about names like is-int? < 1293060560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsupported < 1293060567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it isn't a scheme-ish < 1293060853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what language are you compiling? < 1293060870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amber < 1293060882 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, never heard of it, is it an esolang? < 1293060887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1293060888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sort of esolang the < 1293060890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1293060893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then what is it? :D < 1293060914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1293061168 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's his C-with-lambdas-and-GC. < 1293061296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, and something that needs name mangling too < 1293061555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Not quite true. plz leave explainin' to me < 1293061589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, waiting for that < 1293061604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, going to sleep in 5-10 minutes < 1293061613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, yes. < 1293061614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy. < 1293061615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so. < 1293061639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Basically it's a language whose semantics map very directly to C, but with GC, lambdas, saner structure declarations, nicer syntax, foreach and the like, ETC. < 1293061659 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1293061660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1293061664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It reuses (most of) the C standard library (well, with our own string structure and library), and creating bindings is as easy as making a new module, converting (automatically) a C header, and mangling them. < 1293061667 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1293061671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. SDL_Foo you probably want as sdl.foo. < 1293061681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The target market is basically game development. < 1293061706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The idea is that you don't need bindings at all because the calling convention is exactly the same, etc. < 1293061716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name mangling is for the namespaces/modules. < 1293061724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M2myM7awesome_function is my.awesome.function. < 1293061738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1293061748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name := M | _ < 1293061765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need some bindings to handle your "saner structs" < 1293061775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or can you just include a C header file? < 1293061816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you probably need some kind of C-string<->sane-string mapping too < 1293061847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, you need some bindings to handle your "saner structs" < 1293061855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By saner structs I just mean you access stack and heap allocates ones the same :P < 1293061861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1293061863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I might not have stack structs. < 1293061867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, and you probably need some kind of C-string<->sane-string mapping too < 1293061867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so . = -> ? < 1293061870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the one thing that will be mapped. < 1293061874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just s ===> s->bytes) < 1293061880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since they're kept null-terminated) < 1293061886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But yeah, I might just have heap structs only. Not sure. < 1293061890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No pointer type, I think. < 1293061924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. That will make interfacing with stuff like sdl and allegro a bit more painful < 1293061929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why? < 1293061938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm pretty sure there are foo **bar style pointers there < 1293061950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, right, I'll have to see. I can't have totally-general pointers though 'cuz of the GC. < 1293061959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The first program (well, game) written in it will be Allegro-based. Or SDL.) < 1293061985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have to say I find sdl nicer. Even though allegro is higher level < 1293062003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm going to look at Allegro 5. < 1293062009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's out real-soon-now. < 1293062014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never really found any use for more than blitting sprites, rotation and drawing primitives. All of which SDL can do < 1293062020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah I haven't looked at allegro5 < 1293062026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at the older one < 1293062031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's a 2D game here. < 1293062036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with quite a lot of things to keep track of. < 1293062047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I written 2D games with both allegro and sdl. < 1293062051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have* < 1293062071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Phantom_Hoover__ for this endeavour entirely, BTW. < 1293062073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not the language. < 1293062112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, do you think you will complete this project within the next few months? < 1293062117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will it be put on hold < 1293062120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a lot of other things < 1293062121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was Vorpal asking about PSOX? < 1293062126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Phantom_Hoover__'s already written some code and is writing more. < 1293062138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's in Common Lisp, but Phantom_Hoover__ writing code is rare enough that at least some dedication appears to exist. < 1293062156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he codes? < 1293062160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't aware of that < 1293062166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think this is his fifth program. Phantom_Hoover__? < 1293062174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought he was purely theoretical < 1293062192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm purely theoretical. I don't exist in practice. < 1293062209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you... code a shitload. Just you do breadth-first not depth-first. < 1293062226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1293062240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Amber is specifically designed to be really easy to compile to C. < 1293062256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still requires writing a parser < 1293062258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I have a parser, it should be pretty trivial. < 1293062259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1293062259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes. < 1293062269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm probably going to write the compiler in Python for the "it's there"-ness of it. < 1293062279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and parsers I can't help with. Anything more complex than parsing, say, brainfuck I hate < 1293062294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (The game is probably going to be commercial-but-comes-with-source-that-you-can-distribute-modifications-of, so having the compiler be portable is an added bonus.) < 1293062304 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 5 is probably generous. < 1293062318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I'll be using one of those magic-BNF-parser tools. The C compiler time will dwarf whatever time it takes to translate to C, anyway. < 1293062324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I absolutely have to parse I tend to do it as basic as possible. Absolutely no "lenient in what you accept" < 1293062326 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-45.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1293062342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the game btw? < 1293062364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, magic-BNF? lex and yacc? < 1293062365 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1293062372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2D Newtonian mechanics third-person space flight/combat simulator. We're not sure exactly /what/ it's going to be yet, but something like that. < 1293062375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Definitely Newtonian. < 1293062385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imagine Asteroids, times a few billion. < 1293062394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also: Localised changes to the laws of physics as a tactical weapon!