00:00:07 elliott, also stairs use a different direction-encoding scheme 00:00:09 as well 00:00:22 as ladders YET another one 00:06:18 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:10:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:12:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:18:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:22:06 ifneq "$(findstring $(SPACE),$(CURDIR))" "" 00:22:06 $(error Your work area is under a directory whose name contains a space. While it's possible to beat make into working with such directories, it's surprisingly hard and causes more problems than it solves. So, sorry, but don't do that) 00:22:06 endif 00:22:16 --salma-hayek, another (and much larger, multi-file) make "framework" 00:22:25 If I fail this course, my GPA will go from 3.86 to a number larger than 3.61 00:22:35 elliott, you will do it I presume? 00:22:41 Sgeo, GPA? 00:22:56 Vorpal: GPA = stupid numeric measure of success in USA 00:22:57 -!- cheater99 has joined. 00:23:02 elliott, ah 00:23:09 Vorpal: And I don't know if I'll do it; it really is a *huge* pain and it's also impossible to use lists like that, I think. 00:23:11 4.0 being straight As 00:23:23 Sgeo, so don't fail it? 00:23:36 Vorpal, do half a semester's worth of work in one night? 00:24:12 Sgeo: On, what, xor swapping in Perl? 00:24:21 elliott: make framework == fail, make library == potentially not fail 00:24:23 Sgeo, so why didn't you? 00:24:37 olsner: "framework" in so far as it defines targets like "all" and "clean" for you :P 00:24:39 Vorpal: "GPA" = "Grade Point Average". Essentially an averaging of grades, with A=4.0, B=3.0, C=2.0, D=1.0, F=0.0. 00:24:40 Vorpal, I missed a deadline, then got scared of checking whether it would be possible to submit 00:24:41 Sgeo, I mean, why didn't you work 00:24:44 And it kind of snowballed 00:24:50 ... 00:24:52 "Scared"? 00:24:54 What? 00:24:56 Sgeo: ? 00:24:57 at least using the framework/library distinction I read in a random blog post a while ago, dunno if there's any official definition of it 00:24:58 night → 00:25:04 It's a very bizzare "measure" of academic performance. 00:25:13 olsner: well with make it's more like... ball of mud vs. ball of mud :D 00:25:17 Especially as the given out grades are essentially arbitrary. 00:25:47 elliott, yes, scared 00:25:53 Sgeo: Howso exactly? 00:25:58 Of the thing closing so I couldn't submit work 00:26:09 "scared of checking whether it would be possible to submit" 00:26:15 Sgeo: You said scared of checking. 00:26:17 Not scared of it closing. 00:26:32 Well, I ended up not checking. Or looking at it. Or doing anything else 00:26:37 Sgeo: ...why? 00:27:10 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:27:26 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:48 Gregor: You... forced a new WebKit build into Safari? 00:27:50 WHY GOD WHY 00:27:59 elliott, early adapter? 00:28:09 Well, I ended up not checking. Or looking at it. Or doing anything else 00:28:09 Sgeo: ...why? 00:28:11 Question not answered yet. 00:28:35 elliott, because I was scared. 00:28:45 Sgeo: Of /what/ 00:28:47 grades are useless 00:29:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:29:04 Of it being too late to do anything 00:29:12 except for getting into the next level of education where you can achieve: more useless grades 00:29:13 elliott, you think that this was rational? 00:29:15 It wasn't 00:29:15 Sgeo: Yes, but you said scared of /checking/. 00:29:21 No, but irrational is one thing. 00:29:23 Completely stupid is another. 00:29:39 olsner: but then you get a ph.d.! 00:29:57 * pikhq declares it to be time for more Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES 00:30:08 elliott: orly? I didn't 00:30:24 olsner: then you didn't get enough useless grades 00:30:31 pikhq: do what i said :P 00:30:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 00:31:23 eugh, these x86 assembly instructions are so damned long :( 00:32:42 olsner: write your OS in MIPS and then just write a MIPS emulator in x86 asm 00:34:14 or ARM, I have arbitrarily decided that I like ARM assembly more than MIPS 00:34:21 MIPS is easier to decode though 00:35:03 olsner: yes but with mips you can, one day, perhaps run on jsmips 00:35:37 perhaps! 00:35:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:36:00 or maybe look into Alpha which has that PAL thingy 00:36:04 which sounds cool 00:36:07 olsner: alpha is super-complex :P 00:36:08 iirc 00:36:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:37:12 hmm, right, not so cool to emulate... but potentially for writing stuff in 00:37:25 olsner: write it in MIX, not MMIX, MIX 00:37:36 as in, write a microkernel directly in PAL or something 00:37:43 Man. This game has an in-game calendar. 00:37:48 The End of the World is marked on it. 00:38:18 "By default, the Make rules should compile and link with ‘-g’, so that executable programs have debugging symbols. Users who don't mind being helpless can strip the executables later if they wish." 00:38:20 not sure what you can do with it though, and wikipedia didn't have a complete description so I'll assume there's not a lot of online information about it 00:38:26 yeah, I use the debugging symbols in my binaries ALL THE TIME 00:38:43 olsner: define pal 00:39:07 20100131, in fact. 00:39:29 elliott: it's a microcodeish thing that allows you to define custom assembler instructions (really function calls into PAL code) 00:39:49 olsner: psht, why not overwrite the actual microcode of the x86 00:39:50 -!- cheater99 has joined. 00:39:55 to do bytebytejump! 00:40:00 pikhq: heh 00:40:17 elliott: that would be awesome, if only you could make your own 00:40:28 maybe I should get a job at intel or something 00:40:40 olsner: you can 00:40:57 olsner: linux lets you write to microcode with a file in /proc if it's enabled at kconfig time 00:41:04 olsner: for applying microcode updates from intel 00:41:07 or something 00:41:12 olsner: all you have to do is figure out the format and instructions! 00:41:25 ... and intel's private key for microcode updates? 00:42:32 olsner: well, let's put it this way 00:42:39 olsner: either you can figure it out by reading the linux kernel source, 00:42:46 olsner: or /intel's cpus actually check the key themselves/ 00:42:56 now, the latter would be an amazing feat of silicon 00:42:57 but i doubt it 00:43:31 as I understand it, what's in linux is just glue code for sending the contents of intel's microcode files into the cpu 00:43:59 olsner: so you're saying the cpu actually has silicon/microcode on it to verify a public key? 00:44:00 hmm 00:44:00 i.e. mostly useless for anyone wanting to construct their own microcode file 00:44:25 elliott: the key wouldn't actually have to be assymetric, would it? 00:44:39 oerjan: well no i was about to correct that but decided not to :D 00:44:49 *asymmetric 00:45:36 elliott: it could also have plain x86 code that does it - every x86 cpu comes with an x86 cpu after all 00:45:50 olsner: well, yes. 00:45:54 olsner: TIAS :P 00:46:02 (I accept no responsibility if etc.) 00:46:14 TIAS? 00:46:19 olsner: Try It And Snorkel 00:46:22 Or See. 00:46:24 But probably snorkel. 00:46:41 I do wonder what happens if you send random data as the microcode thing 00:46:50 olsner: TIAS! 00:47:01 (Tiaras Impede Actually Snorkelling) 00:47:02 * oerjan watches olsner brick his computer 00:47:50 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:48:43 olsner: so how can I make everything depend on the Makefile I wonder 00:48:45 you must answer 00:49:13 this sounds promising: "The microcode update is volatile and needs to be uploaded on each system boot i.e. it doesn't reflash your cpu permanently, reboot and it reverts back to the old microcode." 00:50:40 olsner: it probably won't brick it then! now cat /dev/urandom to it 00:51:04 olsner: http://www.urbanmyth.org/microcode/ 00:51:08 olsner: this may help sorta 00:51:17 elliott: yep, found 00:51:44 what's the filename for microcode again? 00:51:48 i wanna see if i can cat it :P 00:52:13 it's a text file, with many sets of updates (for different models, presumably), each is a list of 32-bit hexadecimal values 00:52:31 you can: apt-get install intel-microcode :) 00:52:34 heh 00:53:10 dammit, make needs a 00:53:20 $(.WHAT_DEFAULT_GOAL_WILL_BE_AT_THE_END_OF_EVALUATION) 00:54:09 most of the data sets seem to have a header (a bunch have 12 words, the last entry in the file has 36 words of header) 00:57:23 olsner: please tell me you're actually gonna try writing to the file 01:00:35 -!- cheater99 has joined. 01:01:06 first problem: finding out which of all these updates belong to my CPU model 01:01:06 SOON THERE SHALL BE SATAN 01:01:24 AND I SHALL BE INVINCIBLE 01:03:31 nice, the code that teases apart the file-of-all-updates into the right per-cpu update is in the kernel 01:04:20 heh 01:04:20 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:57 elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ ls 01:07:58 foo.c foo.d Makefile useful.make 01:07:58 elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ rm foo.d 01:07:58 rm: cannot remove `foo.d': No such file or directory 01:07:59 spot the error 01:08:27 foo.d\ \ Makefile? 01:09:36 olsner: nope 01:10:43 olsner: GUESS AGAIN MY FRIEND 01:18:33 olsner: answer: \ foo.d 01:21:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 01:23:13 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:20 hmm, looks like I won't have time to do this microcode thingy until after christmas 01:25:45 According to the academic calendar, the grades are due in a week 01:25:51 So maybe I can still pull this off 01:28:42 (it suddenly involved a reboot because I don't have kernel modules installed for my running kernel) 01:29:22 olsner: rebooting takes until after christmas? 01:29:22 and microcode loading (which might print some numbers when running) and msr reading (which could also tell me those numbers) both require loading some specific kernel modules 01:29:26 elliott: yep 01:29:30 :D 01:29:36 olsner: can't you just modprobe 01:29:37 no time for planned downtime! 01:29:39 the one advantage of dynamic modules! 01:29:44 they save uptime 01:29:59 hmm, using modprobe solves not having the modules installed? 01:30:24 olsner: well you can always recompile the kernel, install it, and use modprobe, no>? 01:30:25 *no? 01:30:33 or even just compile the modules themselves? 01:30:34 and modprobe them? 01:30:48 Makefile:2: *** commands commence before first target. Stop. 01:30:50 SHUT UP YOU PIECE OF SHIT 01:31:24 lol it was because i had indentation 01:33:55 I'm starting to think I put about as much effort into school as a high school dropout, I just happen to be lucky 01:34:35 hmm, I could just reinstall the kernel package I had when I last booted :) 01:35:22 dmesg after modprobe microcode says: sig=0x10677, pf=0x10, revision=0x703 <-- those are the droids I should be looking for 01:35:53 There's snow in Australia right now. 01:35:58 On the summer. Fucking. Solstice. 01:37:56 w.t.f.is.this. 01:38:04 define compile 01:38:04 @echo $(call quote,$(1)) 01:38:04 $(2) 01:38:04 endef 01:38:04 works 01:38:07 define compile 01:38:07 @echo $(call quote,$(1)) 01:38:08 @$(2) 01:38:10 endef 01:38:12 says missing separator 01:38:16 pikhq, therefore, Global Warming is a lie! 01:38:19 AND 01:38:22 define compile 01:38:22 @echo $(call quote,$(1)) 01:38:23 @$(2) 01:38:23 endef 01:38:25 works, but still prints $(2) 01:38:31 WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPEN;FGHING 01:39:21 define c-dep-rule 01:39:21 $(1).d : $(1).c ; $(call compile,DEP $(1).c, 01:39:21 $(CC.INVOKE) -M -MG \ 01:39:21 -MT $(call quote,$(2)) \ 01:39:21 -MF $(call quote,$(1).d) \ 01:39:22 $(1).c) 01:39:23 endef 01:39:25 pikhq: behold the ugly 01:40:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 01:40:57 oh, i needed MOAR BACKSLUSHES 01:41:12 nope wait avoided 01:42:46 elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make 01:42:47 DEP foo.c 01:42:47 CC foo.c 01:42:47 elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make clean 01:42:47 rm -f 'foo' 'foo.d' 01:42:49 pikhq: Oh god this is hideous. 01:43:13 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:44:14 hmm, this thing only contains 2012 bytes of microcode 01:45:04 when the snow crust carries a man at summer solstice, spring will be late 01:45:25 olsner: I think they only contain "patches". 01:46:33 (ancient northern norwegian proverb) 01:46:56 grr, forgot about how 4-byte ints take 4 bytes each - it's actually 8k :) 01:49:26 define c-program-body 01:49:26 $(call c-program-rule,$(1)) 01:49:26 $(call c-dep-rule,$(1),$(1)) 01:49:26 $(if $(cleaning),,-include $(1).d) 01:49:26 endef 01:51:05 pikhq: olsner: http://sprunge.us/ejFR useful.make 01:51:07 http://sprunge.us/YEbG Makefile 01:51:12 Warning: MOST HIDEOUS HACK IN THE HISTORY OF HACKS. 01:51:22 FEATURES CODE LIKE 01:51:22 quote = '$(subst ','\'',$(1))'#' 01:51:23 "The language for Apex is sort of a combination of TECO and Sam." 01:51:27 and 01:51:29 define c-dep-rule 01:51:29 to-clean += $(1).d 01:51:30 $(1).d : $(1).c ; $(call compile,DEP $(1).c, 01:51:30 $(cc.invoke) -M -MG \ 01:51:30 -MT $(call quote,$(2)) \ 01:51:30 http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2010/12/19/apex-my-editor-project/ 01:51:30 -MF $(call quote,$(1).d) \ 01:51:32 $(1).c) 01:51:34 endef 01:51:48 oerjan: <3 01:52:07 but, dammit, Apex is already a cpressey language! 01:53:32 nobody gonna call me out on that? :P 01:54:07 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 01:54:15 pikhq: not gonna cry at my useful.make? 01:58:06 elliott: google does not seem to support that claim much 01:58:28 oerjan: it was actually a language i managed to trick cpressey into semi-designing before he buggered off irc :) 01:58:36 heh 02:00:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 02:04:09 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:09:01 elliott@dinky:~/code/useful-make$ make 02:09:01 DEPfoo.c 02:09:01 CCfoo.c 02:09:01 foo.c: In function ‘main’: 02:09:01 foo.c:2: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘}’ token 02:09:02 (command was: cc -o 'foo' 'foo.c') 02:09:03 make: *** [foo] Error 1 02:09:05 aww yeah 02:09:11 define do 02:09:12 @echo $(call quote,$(SPACE)$(SPACE)$(1)$(TAB)$(2)); $(strip $(3)) || ( \ 02:09:12 exit=$$$$?; \ 02:09:13 echo ' (command was: '$(call quote,$(strip $(3)))')'; \ 02:09:15 exit $$$$exit \ 02:09:18 ) 02:09:19 endef 02:09:21 I'm a four-dollar programmer. 02:09:23 pikhq: ^ 02:18:22 elliott: There is no God. 02:18:32 pikhq: No -- I am god, see. 02:18:40 pikhq: I got the number of $s right on my *second try*. 02:18:43 No, you are Loki. 02:18:49 I went straight from $? to $$$$?. 02:18:49 What language is this? 02:18:52 That is how in tune I am with make right now. 02:18:54 Sgeo: Make. 02:18:56 Sgeo: Make, of the GNU variety. 02:19:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:08 * Sgeo decides not to learn it 02:19:16 Sgeo: It's not a language, it's a build system. 02:19:22 A BUILD SYSTEM THAT I HAVE PERVERTED 02:19:25 GAHAHAHAHAHA 02:19:34 Oh, that's alright then 02:19:37 NO IT'S NOT 02:19:43 IT IS SO, /SO/ NOT ALL RIGHT 02:20:22 Oh it's "Oh. Well, that's all right then" 02:20:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 02:20:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:22:29 http://www.american-buddha.com/hitchhikersolong8.htm how is this legal? Or is it not? 02:22:45 Clearly it is totally legal. 02:23:19 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:25:38 Sgeo: Copyright is enforced via civil law. Making it trivial to violate without fear of retribution if you're not a big enough target. 02:28:06 pikhq: http://sprunge.us/STBN useful.make, slightly less horrific version. 02:28:20 pikhq: Semi-recommended reading now, as it merely provides insight into using and abusing make, rather than also inflicting mortal pain :P 02:32:05 pikhq: No? 02:38:36 * pikhq attempts to gain 20 to 30 levels 02:39:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:18 pikhq: REEAD IT 02:39:23 I could beat the game, but I want to completely break it first. 02:40:05 pikhq, what game is this? 02:40:07 -!- cheater99 has joined. 02:40:15 Wait, didn't I ask previously? 02:40:16 Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES 02:40:41 AKA "really fucking hard". 02:40:41 * Sgeo wishes that all the effort that goes into mining Bitcoins was redirected to Folding@Home 02:40:51 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:41:53 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:46:09 ah, I have now found the microcode that matches my CPU (both rev 0x705 and 0x703) 02:46:32 (change random parts and go? :D) 02:46:37 The mooks have mediarahan. WHY. 02:46:42 (mediarahan is a full party heal) 02:47:53 incidentally, the size of the patch doubled in size between those two revs 02:48:31 * Sgeo wishes that all the effort that goes into mining Bitcoins was redirected to Folding@Home 02:48:34 i suppose you hate hashcash, too 02:48:50 elliott, how much effort is put into hashcash, anywhere? 02:48:59 Does Hashcash even see use? 02:49:02 Sgeo: um, very little, just like bitcoins 02:49:24 People apparently have purchased lots of expensive GPUs for Bitcoins 02:49:30 Sgeo: So? 02:50:00 fizzie: Would you be upset if I replaced the mcmap makefile with another one that's about 11 lines long, much clearer, and depends on an awful hideous monstrosity file I'm writing called useful.make? :-) 02:52:30 real0m1.961s 02:52:30 Aha. 02:52:42 mcmap's current Makefile is broken and doesn't generate the .ds. 02:56:23 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:56:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:58:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 03:01:25 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:25 pikhq: So... you ever generated filenames with spaces in them using make? 03:04:39 Not really. 03:05:17 pikhq: Darn. 03:05:25 pikhq: (I'm trying to fix useful.make's handling of that right now.) 03:14:47 pikhq: I should just give up, shouldn't I. 03:17:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 03:20:40 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:22:15 WHY DOES IT DO THIS TO ME 03:22:40 elliott, because you don't go to sleep at night 03:22:51 it's just 3:22 am fuck off 03:23:01 * Sgeo was trying to be humerous 03:23:04 humouros 03:23:08 I can't spell today 03:24:07 Ok, now I'm cracking up 03:26:17 pikhq: So... do you happen to know a variant of $(foreach) that works for escaped spaces? 03:30:20 im afraid to make my videogame :( 03:31:43 augur, don't turn into me >.> [yes I know that makes no sense] 03:31:51 Not really. 03:34:02 Sgeo: wat 03:34:21 augur, crippling fear preventing you from getting something done 03:34:28 Sgeo: oh, well 03:34:35 im afraid to do it because i want to EXPERIENCE the game 03:34:50 and if i MAKE the game, ill be intimately familiar with it from the outset 03:34:58 there wont be anything wondrous to experience 03:35:37 hm which one of you talented young minds wants to write about something interesting on my BLOG 03:36:17 Quadrescence: i don't know. such a shame that links can only be clicked once before they expire forever 03:36:23 i hope you choose wisely 03:37:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 03:37:52 i know : ( 03:38:37 Wait what? 03:39:48 anyway if someone is interested in posting something cool i'm totes down with it but ideally it should probably contain a little math or compsci 03:40:47 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:41:28 oh WRITE about something 03:41:32 i thought you said read 03:41:40 no write 03:41:48 just link to the #esoteric logs 03:41:52 instant blog post 03:41:57 no #esoteric logs are terrible 03:42:03 they are the worst ever 03:42:16 i don't think you'll find much support for that statement on #esoteric 03:42:34 especially considering how popular logreading is 03:45:30 so anyway are there any interested ppl 03:49:08 doubtful, i can't recall ever seeing anyone in here do any work voluntarily 03:49:58 it's not really work 03:50:18 it's an outlet to Talk About Something Interesting 03:50:35 through work 03:50:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:51:13 -!- augur has joined. 03:52:08 elliott: well i don't want someone writing who'd feel like they're doing work 03:57:02 pikhq: So this horrible hack turns out to be really nice actually: http://sprunge.us/HBNM 03:57:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 03:59:53 pikhq: Hey ho? 03:59:53 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:11:13 Hee ho! 04:11:48 elliott: That's pretty nice if you ignore the contents of useful.make. 04:12:51 pikhq: It's getting better, actually: http://sprunge.us/MbZN 04:13:05 Oh, ignore the commented-out defines... 04:13:12 You're making GNU make usable. 04:13:14 God. 04:13:26 -!- kanzure has joined. 04:13:36 what iz this place 04:15:03 この場所は皆が英語で話せる所です。けど、僕は英語で話したくないので、日本語で話してる。^_^ 04:15:30 kanzure: a place of death and diere 04:15:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:15:34 and DIEF DIEF DIEF 04:15:35 elliott: lovely 04:15:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 04:15:42 kanzure: or a channel for esoteric programming languages 04:15:43 YOU DECIDE 04:16:05 i will, fine 04:16:15 kanzure: we're all awaiting your decision! 04:16:28 pikhq: Apparently, because you talk in English, you speak Japanese. 04:16:30 pikhq: A feat of logic. 04:16:49 elliott: Google Translate fails horribly. 04:17:07 elliott: It turns a negative into a positive and ignores the "want to" suffix. 04:17:10 pikhq: :P 04:17:37 "This is a place where everyone speaks English. But, since I don't want to speak English, I'm speaking Japanese." 04:18:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:18:55 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:21:29 fizzie: Can I replace the Makefile with http://sprunge.us/HBNM plus a 100-line-or-so-black-box include file? :p 04:26:05 elliott: diere? dief? 04:26:38 oerjan: Dief! Dief! Dief! 04:26:52 * oerjan feels severy whooshed 04:26:59 *severely 04:27:47 oerjan: dief is the name of a macro in mcmap's code; I just felt it suitably ... die-y. It sounded very Nazi in a wonderful way! (Best sentence. Best sentence.) 04:27:50 DIEF! 04:28:02 (Pronounced "dye-ff".) 04:28:39 apparently it means "thief" in dutch 04:28:47 but then, no one understand dutch anyhow 04:28:51 *understands 04:29:07 * oerjan hits his fingers for bad spelling 04:34:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 04:39:10 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:41:44 oerjan: Especially not the Dutch. 04:41:56 It's a big game they play with foreigners.\ 04:41:58 that was implied. 04:42:08 Much like Swedish without the bork bork bork. 04:42:37 or the danish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk 04:44:07 LOG QUOTE OF THE DAY 04:44:08 16:10:03 * oerjan has _never_ masturbated to the curry-howard isomorphism. should i try it? 04:44:28 * oerjan has no recollection of that quote 04:44:39 it was after 04:44:45 16:09:24 HEY LOOK GUYS I CAN PRETEND I'M A MATHEMATICIAN BECAUSE I CAN WRITE PROOFS IN COQ fapfapfapfapfap etc 04:44:45 16:09:31 * Sgeo_ should probably learn what the Curry-Howard isomorphism 04:44:46 16:09:33 *is 04:44:51 (and some other stuff, but) 04:45:42 i am pretty sure i didn't actually try it, though 04:45:55 oerjan: you have done a disservice to science. 04:46:37 Dear Facebook: When I download my data, I want to download all of it. That includes the messages to/from a girl who blocked me. 04:46:44 win2 6 04:47:00 coppro: TYPE BETTER 04:47:06 and lose some windows 04:47:08 Sgeo: MEGAN 04:47:09 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:47:27 elliott, I thought you hated xkcdsucks 04:47:57 xkcd sucks, xkcdsucks is just stupid as of late 04:48:04 http://xkcdexplained.com/ is perfect though 04:48:29 elliott, it seems to have ended 04:48:46 Yes, that's part of what's so perfect about it. 04:49:18 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:51:43 I do kind of like the latest xkcd, though the "bitches" bit seems overdone 04:51:53 Randall is now making references to his own comic 04:52:33 Actually, the latest xkcd is awesome, especially if you subtract the flaws. It's a wonderful message 04:55:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 04:56:02 oerjan: look what you have done: 04:56:04 ./08.11.01:01:10:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for feminine hysteria 04:56:04 ./08.11.01:01:17:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for fun 04:56:14 damn you! 04:56:41 i am _so_ sorry for destroying your innocence in this way 04:56:52 *MWAHAHAHA* 04:56:57 why did it have to be so 04:57:28 01:15:07 * oerjan is not particularly hysterical today, or feminine for that matter. 04:57:29 01:15:38 perhaps. 04:57:29 01:17:22 doubly good then! 04:57:29 01:17:32 * psygnisfive manually masturbates oerjan for fun 04:57:29 01:19:37 hey, a deer outside the window 04:57:29 01:26:12 cute :D 04:57:31 01:36:12 Yeah, that mundane magic page is one of the most brilliant things I've read in a long time. 04:57:34 01:36:44 Er, misread that as "hey, a deer masturbates outside the window" "cute". 04:57:38 01:37:08 thank you, fizzie. 04:58:07 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:59:18 not that there is anything wrong with that. 04:59:50 oerjan: as a deer, i concur. 04:59:53 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: TO CUTENESS!). 05:00:17 MY MIND'S EYE! MY POOR MIND'S EYE! 05:01:09 it's just the universe's way to attempt to shock you out of procrastination. 05:02:05 I may have more time than I thought 05:02:21 If I don't have as much time as I now think I might have, I might as well accept the 3.6 GPA 05:14:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 05:16:48 Sgeo: Hardly anybody will care about your GPA. 05:18:17 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:28:37 Eclipse begin! 05:28:55 wait, now? 05:29:31 Total lunar eclipse tonight; it's penumbral right now. 05:29:47 Should be more obviously visible in about an hour when the moon hits the umbra. 05:29:52 wait now 05:29:55 And be total about an hour after that. 05:29:57 oh yeah 05:29:58 good 05:30:01 thought I had my timing off 05:30:13 i know that, i just thought it was several hours until it 05:30:35 The penumbra screws your concept of timing! 05:31:26 sadly the moon here looks like it's about to set :( 05:32:47 oerjan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Visibility_Lunar_Eclipse_2010-12-21.png According to this, you will just barely be able to totality as the moon sets. 05:33:07 Erm, to see totality 05:35:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 05:36:03 I think I'm going to eat 05:36:19 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:36:21 I won't miss anything if this is the last time I look at the moon for the next hour, will I? 05:36:29 nope 05:36:34 the real fun is when you get totality 05:36:42 or at least when the umbra hits 05:36:46 Sgeo: Well, the moon will be slowly darkening for the next hour. 05:36:59 Not much to see until it gets close to the umbra, though. 05:53:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 05:55:38 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 06:15:08 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:24:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:31:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 06:34:01 eclipse! 06:34:48 Hooray! 06:35:13 ever so slightly 06:35:22 * oerjan just took a trip outside to check 06:36:59 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:36:59 It's actually pretty nice here. 06:37:01 Straight up. 06:38:06 um i am assuming it cannot look much different in america :D 06:38:21 oerjan: Well, it's just a nice night out, and the moon is straight up. 06:38:49 (no, but seriously, don't you know? The American moon is MUCH better than yours!) 06:39:01 (why else do you think we had to go there?) 06:39:02 AND made of cheese, too 06:39:17 ours is just made of cardboard 06:41:00 Yeah. We go and mine it, because it's the only way for America to get good cheese. 06:41:20 sounds legit to me 06:46:46 pikhq: where are you?? 06:48:39 * Sgeo is still eating :/ 06:53:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 06:54:05 augur: Colorado. 06:54:12 o 06:57:12 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:14:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:17:59 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:21:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:34:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:37:58 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:42:42 Totality. :D 07:43:05 pikhq is Facebook-stalking me =P 07:43:26 And Mr. Totality is an enemy combatant obviously 07:43:30 I FACEBOOK-STALK EVERYONE. 07:43:40 But especially you. 07:54:21 pikhq: it's still lighter on one side...will it not get totally red? 07:54:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:55:16 quintopia: It will towards the time of greatest eclipse, 08:16:56 UTC. 07:55:47 ah 07:56:57 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 07:57:10 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:11:48 -!- boily has joined. 08:14:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 08:16:22 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:24:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:29:42 -!- atrapado has joined. 08:33:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 08:33:50 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: Bye). 08:37:20 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:54:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 08:57:27 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:58:18 -!- atrapado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:59:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:14:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:19:55 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:35:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:36:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:40:45 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:53:15 -!- frodatio has joined. 09:53:31 -!- frodatio has left (?). 09:53:34 2.98 /8s in APNIC pool (the allocation threshold is about 2 /8s)... 09:56:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:59:41 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:19:49 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:20:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:25:16 -!- Sasha2 has joined. 10:28:25 -!- javawizard has joined. 10:33:10 -!- Sasha has quit (*.net *.split). 10:33:13 -!- jcp has quit (*.net *.split). 10:33:13 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 10:33:22 -!- javawizard has changed nick to jcp. 10:34:04 -!- dbc has joined. 10:34:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:36:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:40:37 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:40:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:47:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:57:09 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:59:58 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:04:17 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:12:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:13:40 Totality. :D 11:13:51 it got too cloudy here :( 11:16:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:20:15 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:35:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:36:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:38:29 -!- atrapado has joined. 11:40:43 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:40:45 -!- atrapado has changed nick to roper. 11:40:58 -!- roper has changed nick to atrapado. 11:57:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:59:57 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:18:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:20:25 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:28:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:29:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:36:33 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:37:17 hmm, a page linked from reddit turned out to be incapable of scrolling without javascript turned on 12:37:24 of all the things that people use javascript for, that's pretty weird 12:37:33 (I opened it in w3m, in the end, so it wouldn't use the CSS either) 12:39:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:49:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:50:59 Javascript or is it javashit? :-) 12:51:02 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:52:32 Ilari: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with JavaScript (in fact, it's a very nice language, although the DOM is irritating), but people try to use it in all sorts of contexts where they probably shouldn't 12:55:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:58:16 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:14:31 -!- cheater99 has joined. 13:17:56 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:34:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 13:36:23 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:56 -!- Sasha has joined. 13:49:39 -!- Sasha2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:52:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 13:58:07 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:32 -!- cheater99 has joined. 14:16:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:19:19 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:28 -!- cheater99 has joined. 14:41:07 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:58:00 -!- cheater99 has joined. 15:01:22 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:02:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:15:17 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:18:30 -!- cheater99 has joined. 15:19:42 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:19:56 -!- wareya_ has joined. 15:22:08 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:22:52 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:33:26 -!- sftp has joined. 15:40:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 15:44:56 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:56:16 -!- elliott has joined. 15:56:27 http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/12/21/woke-kids-lunar-eclipse/ ;; apparently this is what passes for an article these days 15:57:07 erm then again clicking a random link on that page only seems to show a tagline for me too, so maybe Fox don't want me to see their articles for fear of mocking them :D 16:02:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 16:04:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:05:35 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:12:50 -!- j-invariant has joined. 16:13:25 "Times like these will never happen again.". Err... TLEs happen about once per 17 months on average (oh, and there's apparently two next year) and are visible from about half of the planet at once... 16:14:07 misinformation in the news 16:14:19 that's something that will happen again! 16:16:21 Ilari: yeah I think there's more article but the server isn't showing it 16:16:33 nope wait 16:16:39 http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/21/report-evacuated-suspicious-odor/ was just a tagline before but it isn't now 16:16:47 so heh, the entire article is "Times like these will never happen again." 16:17:05 maybe he means that the democrats and gays are going to band together and blow up the moon 16:17:16 elliott: I got a decent chunk of cats done in coq now 16:18:00 the proofs are awful though, don't know how to sort that 16:18:04 j-invariant: This many? http://www.stitching-dreams.co.uk/images/Bundle%20of%20KittensMed.jpg 16:18:12 More seriously though, cool. 16:18:23 For some reason I can't seem to access anything under nasa.gov (it won't resolve). 16:18:23 I forget why I abandoned my impl. based on that one paper... 16:18:25 hehe 16:18:40 I do know that whenever I start doing algebraic structures, it fails round about at ... what point was it 16:18:48 Im going on the catsters youtube videos 16:18:51 Doing the resolutions manually works, no idea why the recursive nameserver can't resolve it. 16:19:11 I think it was the first one that was just two other structures combined 16:19:16 I think all my operations became ambiguous or something 16:19:30 elliott: well that's useful actually - if you know what it is that made you give up I could try it out (too see if what I have falls apart or not) 16:19:35 but it worked *really* nicely before that with coercions and all ... can't remember if I ever did it with categories though 16:19:50 j-invariant: well, that was when i gave up doing algebraic structures, not categories :) 16:20:01 j-invariant: An implementation of the structures with categories would be interesting, though. 16:20:25 Preferably with coercions from stronger structures to weaker ones, and then defining "op" on e.g. magmas 16:20:31 so that all calls to op downcast the structure or whatever 16:20:34 -!- co345at_office_i has joined. 16:20:34 dude u want this http://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911760&vnr=411870 16:20:34 -!- co345at_office_i has left (?). 16:20:35 I think I would need an example of algebra done inside category theory to get me started though 16:20:35 well 16:20:36 you do like 16:20:44 For some reason it started to wrk... 16:21:05 Definition {A : Magma} (x : A) (y : A) := op A x y 16:21:08 I think 16:21:09 erm 16:21:12 Definition opp {A : Magma} (x : A) (y : A) := op A x y 16:21:18 oh, to hell with it, I've forgotten; I'll try again! 16:21:26 j-invariant: yeah i'm not sure how to do it with categories really 16:21:42 j-invariant: I have a feeling that Coq-with-categories would end up being a lot of fluff to get it cooperating with the categories 16:21:45 And yes, NASA does confirm the two TLEs for next year... :-> 16:22:42 hacking a complex makefile while writing Coq ... this can only go well 16:22:44 elliott: proofs are really verbose - I think I have to have my categories act as a model of an abstract theory or something, so all the mess doesn't leak in to proofs 16:23:02 foo 16:23:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 16:23:19 j-invariant: you could do that thing where you declare a model with axioms and then you "prove" them according to a concrete structure 16:23:23 though i've forgotten how to do that in coq 16:23:26 something with sections or something 16:23:26 or modules 16:23:38 I'll look into that 16:23:42 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:24:24 elliott, it's Section ., then some Variable declarations, then End. IIRC. 16:24:34 Phantom_Hoover: right, yes 16:24:44 Where each Variable is an axiom. 16:24:48 then you can code everything to the "axioms" which you have actually proved according to the gnarly concrete structure 16:26:12 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:28:03 Ilari: um the unusual thing is supposedly that the eclipse is on the same day as the solstice (in american time zones) 16:29:07 * elliott takes a look at dude u want this http://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911760&vnr=411870 16:29:10 i read something about this only happening every 500 years. 16:29:22 well it's a folder called psyBNC2.3.1 but that actually contains what looks like mIRC :P 16:30:11 oerjan, I fail to see the actual *significance* of that. 16:30:12 !haskell 17/12 * 365 16:30:39 oh j-invariant left i was just about to say something i remembered 16:30:45 Phantom_Hoover: it's news! 16:30:46 I mean, extremely improbable astronomical things happen pretty regularly, since there are a lot of them. 16:30:58 !echo hi 16:30:59 hi 16:31:07 !haskell 17/12 * 365 16:31:08 517.0833333333334 16:31:53 Gregor: i think it would be somehow nice if the timeout stuff didn't include the time EgoBot needs to drag itself out of bed, is my suspicion 16:32:51 :D 16:33:03 oerjan: you see, botte does everything really quickly ... 16:34:05 ecord Magma := mkMagma { 16:34:05 M : Set; 16:34:05 o : M -> M -> M 16:34:05 }. 16:34:05 Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := M m. 16:34:10 that's the basic idea 16:34:12 except *Record 16:34:14 no it doesn't, because it's not _here_ 16:34:29 except that since Coq is stupid we need 16:34:36 Record Magma := mkMagma { 16:34:36 magmaM : Set; 16:34:36 magmaO : M -> M -> M 16:34:36 }. 16:34:43 because otherwise we get clashes later, because coq is a douchebag 16:34:47 so moving on, anonymous log-reader, 16:35:30 Record Magma := mkMagma { 16:35:30 magmaM : Set; 16:35:30 magmaO : magmaM -> magmaM -> magmaM 16:35:30 }. 16:35:30 Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := magmaM m. 16:35:31 Definition o {M : Magma} (a : M) (b : M) := 16:35:33 magmaO M a b. 16:35:35 see that??? BEYOOTIFUL 16:35:47 this is the point where i get bored for a while 16:38:12 no it doesn't, because it's not _here_ <-- haven't you realised that elliott does not know the difference between present and future tense by now? 16:38:32 ah yes, timeless elliott 16:38:32 that's disturbingly close to the truth :) 16:38:57 IT'S NOT LEFT-RECURSIVE DAMMIT I TOLD YOU IT HAS NO ASSOCIATIVITY 16:39:02 elliott, I would say it *is* the truth based on the data we have 16:39:13 fuck off, I'm battling Coq 16:39:25 also very elliottish 16:43:28 YES IT FUCKING WORKS 16:43:36 -!- cheater99 has joined. 16:44:17 what, why are you complaining 16:44:18 dammit coq 16:44:43 "Error: Notation _ * _ is already defined at level 40 with arguments 16:44:43 at level 40, at next level while it is now required to be at level 40 16:44:43 with arguments at next level, at next level." 16:44:59 i am pretty sure those two are equivalent :D 16:45:04 oh wait no 16:45:09 the first one is at level 40 i think 16:49:26 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:52:58 pikhq: "The convention of using the same suffix ‘.l’ for all Lex files regardless of whether they produce C code or Ratfor code makes it impossible for make to determine automatically which of the two languages you are using in any particular case." 16:54:53 "Ratfor was invented by the people who invented C. After inventing C, they realized that they had made a mistake (too many semicolons) and they fixed it in Ratfor, although it was too late for C." --Stanford 16:55:03 (Okay, so not STANFORD THEMSELVES.) 16:56:00 elliott, scapegoat question 16:56:08 I'll try. 16:56:37 elliott, have I understood it correctly in that it allows you to, for example, filter commits by some commiters (such as esr) 16:56:50 Not "really". 16:56:53 Sort of. Kinda. 16:57:35 I mean, yes, you could use a script to whitelist every non-esr commit, and in a hypothetical infinitely-flexible version, you could define a branch to be "not-authored-by-esr", but in the version I'm planning to implement, no, there is no native support for that. 16:58:03 I think branches will end up as, in my version, explicitly-whitelisted or automatic, to control whether patches trickle in without being explicitly pulled in. 16:58:44 elliott, ah. Because based on that rather simplistic explanation there are some obvious issues. Trivial one being, committer a writes a function foo, but you filter him. In another file, committer b (which you white list) changes something to call this function foo. 16:59:02 (and the obvious issue arise) 16:59:12 for x in ; do \ 16:59:12 @echo ' RM$x'; rm -f $x || ( exit=$$?; echo ' (command was: rm -f $x)'; exit $$exit ); \ 16:59:12 done 16:59:14 Well that's not right ... 16:59:30 Vorpal: Obviously patches to patches you don't have don't get applied. 16:59:43 elliott, so the compile will then break as one would expect 16:59:50 No shit, sherlock. 16:59:52 But no, what you describe is not a feature of scapegoat at all, it is merely something that can be done with an extended, general implementation. 17:00:06 Therefore don't tell me how useless it is, I /know/ how useless it is; good thing it's not a feature, then. 17:00:28 It's simply that if you let branches be predicates for whether a patch is accepted, then 17:00:28 elliott, right, I saw you discuss this some days ago with ais. 17:00:35 (\p => p.author != (hash of esr)) 17:00:41 is a valid branch, albeit one with rather few files in it. 17:00:48 (given C-INTERCAL, which he wrote most of) 17:00:49 hah 17:01:54 The idea was that @tip would point to a complex formula specifying "the most recent (or was it oldest?) maximally-merged branch". 17:02:12 But at that point you've got a full programming language and at least for now I've vetoed it, and will special-case @tip. 17:02:43 elliott, ah, but TC branch description sounds fun! 17:02:52 It would definitely not be TC. 17:05:23 http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/dreamjobs/dreamjobs5.html Ouch. 17:06:38 -!- cheater99 has joined. 17:09:06 WHAT THE FUCK MAKE 17:09:11 HOW CAN A VARIABLE /LOSE/ VALUES 17:09:30 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:09:35 to_clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d) 17:09:41 fff 17:09:42 OH 17:09:45 it's to-clean 17:09:47 not to_clean 17:10:38 underscoring the difference 17:15:07 pikhq: http://sprunge.us/gZOC 17:15:21 pikhq: useful.make -- now with implicit rules and more readability! 17:16:38 fizzie: Heh, I was just about to whine at you for making a curses dependency, but I see you've made it readline. 17:27:08 -!- cheater99 has joined. 17:28:57 -!- cal153 has joined. 17:30:28 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:31:14 -!- atrapado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:04 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:33:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 17:37:58 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:41:03 Vorpal: quick! what's the variable name of the tree in which we're out-of-tree-building to? 17:41:11 BUILDDIR is ugly because of the repeated D 17:44:44 elliott, ANITVPATH? 17:44:54 Vorpal: wut. 17:44:54 (since iirc VPATH works kind of the other way) 17:45:12 (well, not really) 17:45:24 *ANTI, then 17:45:32 oh 17:45:33 right 17:45:38 didn't notice the typo 17:45:40 yeah I'm not sure whether to get source files from another directory, or to put build files in another directory 17:45:52 "GNU Standard" is to put build files in . and look for sources elsewhere, but that's a bit inconvenient 17:46:01 as opposed to "make" by default putting stuff into build/ 17:46:13 elliott, it is kind of useful when you have a configure script and you have different builds against the same tree 17:46:25 Vorpal: "make BUILDDIR=x" "make BUILDDIR=y" 17:46:26 etc 17:46:48 elliott, make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && make 17:46:54 Vorpal: also, the Makefile would have to figure out what directory it's in to figure out where all the files are, which just screams "MORE GNU MAKE FUNCTION FUN" to me :) 17:46:56 elliott, make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && make 17:46:57 you mean 17:47:06 make DEBUG=1 BUILDDIR=debug vs. cd debug && ../configure --enable-debug && make 17:47:08 elliott, it is a bit messier without a configure script yes 17:47:11 first one sounds nicer to me 17:47:16 elliott, the thing with configure is that you do it once 17:47:20 then just make in the future 17:47:25 as you update the version control 17:47:36 Vorpal: 99.999999999999999999999% of times that's not what happens. 17:47:46 elliott, it is when you are a developer 17:47:52 because the makefile changes. or because you remove the source tree. or any number of reasons. (yes, i know /you/ don't0 17:47:53 *don't) 17:47:55 as a developer -- 17:48:02 it's easiest just to keep the default build/ directory. 17:48:04 -!- cheater99 has joined. 17:48:07 hell, you could even make DESTDIR=debug by default if DEBUG is on 17:48:09 elliott, as an end user, sure it isn't 17:48:12 and then 17:48:13 $ make 17:48:13 vs. 17:48:18 erm 17:48:18 and then 17:48:20 $ make debug=1 17:48:21 vs. 17:48:24 elliott, quite 17:48:24 $ cd debug && make 17:48:32 the former is actually more convenient because you don't have to cd back afterwards 17:48:37 (if you want to) 17:48:45 elliott, often you want do run the binary though 17:48:48 if you are a developer 17:48:50 Vorpal: build/mcmap :P 17:49:24 elliott, I tend to not trust that for anything large. Imagine: wesnoth: can not find data files 17:49:24 Vorpal: and for users, "$ cd mcmap && make" is much nicer than "$ cd mcmap && mkdir build && make -f ../Makefile" 17:49:32 which is how it'd look in this case 17:49:40 well 17:49:41 Vorpal: i.e. programs that need to be installed to be tested 17:49:43 (i.e. bad programs) 17:49:52 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:49:56 elliott, well, they tend to often run from the build dir too 17:50:05 because the devs get fed up with installing when testing 17:50:07 Vorpal: add a "make test" target 17:50:11 .PHONY: test 17:50:18 test: mcmap ; cd build; ./mcmap 17:50:21 elliott, that is probably for the regression test suite 17:50:23 *: build/mcmap 17:50:26 Vorpal: try-it-out ffs 17:50:32 mcmap doesn't even have an install target :P (although if I can convince fizzie to let me replace the Makefile with one using useful.make, it'll automagically get one) 17:50:32 elliott, also mcmap need options 17:50:40 Vorpal: oh jesus shut up and write a shell script 17:50:40 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:50:51 elliott, I didn't say your solution was bad 17:51:01 elliott, just that the alternative isn't as bad as you make it out to be 17:51:07 Sure. But it is without a configure script. 17:51:14 gnu make is so broken :( You can't make targets depend on variable values. 17:51:15 as in 17:51:19 %.o: %.c $(CFLAGS) 17:51:19 as in 17:51:23 elliott, sometimes a configure script is the sanest option 17:51:24 if CFLAGS change, the objects need rebuilding 17:51:28 Vorpal: not for mcmap. 17:51:34 elliott, well duh 17:51:39 if CFLAGS change, the objects need rebuilding 17:51:39 elliott, I was thinking larger thing. 17:51:45 Vorpal: yeah, no, configure is never the right option. 17:51:54 elliott, Gregor disagrees 17:52:00 so does pikhq 17:52:13 actually, pikhq hates autotools almost as much as i do. 17:52:24 Vorpal: but nice argument from authority... 17:52:26 elliott, yes but he think it is the least of bad alternatives iirc 17:52:33 Vorpal: no, he likes makefiles. 17:52:38 Gregor: If you ever want to update me on your current opinions... just let me know. 17:52:47 Gregor: After all, you are like unto a god, and everything you say is immediately entered into my mind. 17:53:13 elliott, well, I pretty much agree with Gregor's arguments for why configure is sometimes good. That is why I refer to him instead of restating them 17:53:19 since I know he told you before 17:53:41 not appeal to authority thus 17:53:46 Vorpal: Actually, he said configure is better than SCons, CMake, and plain-untailored-Makefiles when stuff is semi-complex and needs to be portable. 17:53:48 This is because: 17:53:53 1. SCons sucks ass. 17:53:58 sure, when you *can* avoid configure that is a good idea 17:54:03 2. CMake sucks ass. 17:54:06 I do not love configure either 17:54:13 3. Retards can't write Makefiles. 17:54:20 but in some cases it is the least bad of options 17:54:28 Only if you ignore the right option. 17:54:32 elliott, how do you crosscompile with useful.make? 17:54:45 elliott, specifically a cross toolchain 17:54:46 Vorpal: make cc=your-crosscompiling-gcc-name 17:54:48 (not canadian) 17:55:10 Vorpal: But, uhh, if you're going to form opinions based on what is essentially a 115-line proof of concept ... 17:55:18 elliott, of course not 17:55:23 It does everything mcmap's current Makefile does, plus some. 17:55:30 elliott, mhm 17:55:39 Now why the fuck is it not regenerating the .ds at this point ... 17:55:41 *not regenerating 17:56:01 bbl 17:57:02 elliott: Right, the curses bits are there just because I used the curses attempt as a basis for the readline thing. Anyway, basically what it does is to use rl_replace_line("", 0); rl_redisplay(); to make the "readline area" contain just "> ", then wipe that with \r\e[K, print out the output, then rl_insert_text() the old text back and rl_forced_update_display() it on screen. (But since messing around with the readline buffer isn't exactly safe while some code 17:57:02 is inside readline(), I had to use that alternative, callback-driven interface.) 17:57:57 fizzie: Rite. 17:58:19 I would have to see the useful.make before I can make any sensible decisions; the current Makefile isn't exactly complicated either. (Especially if you get rid of the build-it-with-"-combine -fwhole-program" parts, which would I think happen also with the include useful.make solution.) 17:58:39 fizzie: The current Makefile has such features as "doesn't actually build the .d files properly". 17:58:50 (This is why useful.make seemed to be almost half a second slower at building the whole program.) 17:59:02 Or at least it didn't build them properly last time I checked. 18:00:15 (useful.make isn't exactly the *prettiest* thing -- GNU Make metaprogramming, yay -- but it doesn't do anything "awful", it's just a bit ugley. It's something I'm planning to maintain separately and beyond mcmap, though, so it's not like I've made the Makefile simpler by just shoving it into another file. It's more generic than that.) 18:00:21 Also this will give an install target for free. 18:00:30 And do out-of-tree builds. 18:01:03 Well, "whatever". As long as the build system doesn't get in the way. 18:01:14 MWAHAHAHA WORLD DOMINATION SHALL BE MINE 18:02:02 I did switch from pkg-config zlib to just plain '-lz', since that is such a quasi-standard thing, and my work-workstation didn't have zlib installed inside pkg-config either. 18:03:26 Oh, I dropped the debug target for "make debug=1", but to be fair, "make debug" was pretty slow because of the recursion. 18:03:43 Oh, and I did some protocol-updates based solely on that one wiki; I was a bit suspicious of one of their changes. Will have to test those new things tonight. 18:04:04 -!- j-invariant has joined. 18:05:00 I definitely don't care about the build system speed, given the size of the project. (So far things like "make clean; make debug" have been <2 seconds.) 18:05:03 elliott, that mc bug with peaceful in single player you mentioned 18:05:08 did you confirm actual monsters? 18:05:17 Vorpal: No, I'm too much of a pussy to. 18:05:31 j-invariant: I remembered how I did the structures. 18:05:37 elliott, I haven't seen anything about it elsewhere 18:06:12 (Food now.) 18:07:18 elliott: want to have a look at my draft? 18:08:18 elliott, sure it was on peaceful? 18:08:31 I should try and define a group 18:08:34 -!- cheater99 has joined. 18:08:37 elliott, maybe you changed it by mistake 18:08:41 or a bug changed it 18:09:10 j-invariant: sure 18:09:13 Vorpal: no, it was peaceful. 18:09:34 j-invariant: Record Magma := mkMagma { 18:09:34 magmaM : Set; 18:09:34 magmaO : magmaM -> magmaM -> magmaM 18:09:34 }. 18:09:34 Coercion Magma_to_Set (m : Magma) : Set := magmaM m. 18:09:35 Definition op {M : Magma} (a : M) (b : M) := 18:09:36 magmaO M a b. 18:09:38 Infix "*" := op (at level 40, no associativity). 18:09:40 j-invariant: that's the basic idea 18:09:42 then you do things like 18:09:44 Record Semigroup := mkSemigroup { 18:09:46 semigroupMagma : Magma; 18:09:48 semigroupIsAssociative : 18:09:50 forall a b c : semigroupMagma, 18:09:52 a * (b * c) = (a * b) * c 18:09:54 }. 18:09:56 (that code doesn't work because * is already defined in coq, but whatever) 18:10:44 j-invariant: but iirc this falls down later 18:10:48 j-invariant: but yeah i'd like to see your draft 18:10:49 I have been putting up with things like magmaO M a (magmaO M b c) everywhere 18:10:54 heh 18:11:13 j-invariant: the nice thing about the coercions is, you can have "Foo" be a InsertStructureHere with all the proofs bundled in and the like, 18:11:16 j-invariant: but also say (x : Foo) 18:11:21 because of the coercion to Set 18:11:56 http://coq.pastebin.com/1jd3Ey51 18:12:50 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:26 looking 18:14:09 j-invariant: you've certainly got much further than i ever did 18:14:16 worries me slightly that the category definitions are a bit ugly though 18:14:27 but wow 18:14:39 I'm surprised myself, I didn't expect to be able to defined CAT 18:15:05 remind me to photoshop a picture of a cat to be made out of smaller versions of itself sometime 18:15:07 cat of small cats 18:15:18 IIRC the paper I read defined Cat 18:15:34 very nice though 18:17:35 I wonder if I keep going with it.. if it will not collapse 18:17:55 j-invariant: I hope not, it'd be awesome if you could get the algebraic structures on top of that... then it might be a decent alternative to the crappy coq stdlib 18:18:18 yeah notice I use -nois which means nothing from Coq library gets used 18:18:39 yeah ... for some reason that didn't undefine the * notation for me though when i did those structures just now 18:19:14 fizzie: Pushed the new build system; if you don't look at useful.make it's all nice and pretty. "make" does an OPTOMIZED(tm) build (well, just -O3; -funroll-loops is probably not helpful), "make debug=1" does a DEBUGGERISED(tm) build. "make clean" works, "make install" doesn't exist right now, "make objdir=foo" does what you'd expect, and you can set CFLAGS and the like if you don't know what cc.flags is. 18:19:32 fizzie: It niceifies the build output by default, but prints out the full command whenever anything goes wrong; V=1 makes it print everything (and this is automatically turned on if you use -n.) 18:19:45 "make clean all" fails to generate the .ds properly due to an obscure bug, but I'm looking into that now. 18:19:59 And I used -lz rather than pkg-configging zlib. 18:20:05 It builds into build/ by default. 18:21:28 (But "make objdir=." does work, if you're crazy.) 18:21:57 elliott, can't reproduce the issue you mentioned on peaceful in my games 18:22:09 Vorpal: Well, it /was/ near a mob spawner. 18:22:14 elliott: but if you look at say lines 370 to 417. All that crap does is prove that Ff o (eta o nu) = (Ff o eta) o nu = (eta o Gf) o nu = eta o (Gf o nu) = eta o (nu o Hf) 18:22:17 Because my STAIRCASE MINE IS ABOVE A MOB SPAWNER AAAA. 18:22:21 elliott, hm, don't know anyone near me 18:22:29 Vorpal: *any one :p 18:22:37 j-invariant: yeah, it is a bit verbose ... but 18:22:39 elliott, nor any two 18:22:45 j-invariant: at least you proved it, I never got anywhere near that with mine 18:23:24 crazy idea: Maybe you could make a new category theory proof language... which uses Coq under the hood? 18:23:45 it could even just be commutative diagrams 18:24:48 Vorpal: No sounds so far... 18:24:56 j-invariant: that would be nice ... sounds complicated though :) 18:25:02 yeah 18:25:06 bbl 18:25:08 j-invariant: it'd be nice if category theory turns out to be a useful basis for "typed" computation 18:25:17 j-invariant: like how intuitionistic logic is useful for that, via type theory 18:25:23 and lambda calculus 18:25:47 Vorpal: what scares me a bit is that i have various tunnels of varying litness.. 18:26:02 yeah I don't see how that's possible because all the functions in category theory are just A --> B.. that's my ignorance though 18:26:16 j-invariant: it is a bit hard to imagine yeah 18:28:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:30:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 18:30:23 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:31:07 elliott, hm 18:31:07 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:31:43 Vorpal: I mean, can a spider spawned by a mob spawner manage to trigger off do-a-slurp-sound before it evaporates? 18:32:03 elliott: do you happen to know what's the "simplest nontrivial theorem" for monoids? 18:32:08 elliott, no clue 18:32:22 elliott, I never seen them show up either like that 18:32:25 j-invariant: alas no 18:32:26 I'll try and define moniod but I don't know what to say about them 18:32:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid#Relation_to_category_theory :-) 18:32:50 "Likewise, monoid homomorphisms are just functors between single object categories. So this construction gives an equivalence between the category of (small) monoids Mon and a full subcategory of the category of (small) categories Cat. Similarly, the category of groups is equivalent to another full subcategory of Cat." 18:32:52 j-invariant: prove that :P 18:34:08 huh I have n oidea how to define a subcategory.. 18:34:48 j-invariant: maybe it's just (ob A) subtype-of (ob B)? 18:34:49 i think the name was ob 18:34:50 i forget 18:34:53 the type of the category 18:39:26 ah that could work 18:39:47 j-invariant: i guess you might need to include that the operations are equivalent but i forget so 18:39:49 uh 18:39:56 basically the main thing would be having the types be subtypes i think 18:40:06 "operations are equivalent" <-- Functor :D 18:41:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:44:52 elliott, beta is laggy as fuck 18:44:54 elliott, on a local game 18:45:04 Vorpal: pretty, but restarting it helps 18:45:08 i keep opening minecraft twice by mistake 18:45:15 uh? 18:45:20 *pretty laggy, 18:45:23 elliott, anyway it is way slower than alpha 18:45:32 Vorpal: now i've fallen into a cavern and there's diamond but i'm busy running around scared shitless putting torches everywhere because oh god what if there really are monsters 18:45:49 elliott, I found no indications of that 18:46:04 elliott, the game is from pre-halloween btw (not that it should matter) 18:47:04 elliott, I considered doing some mega scale engineering in that game, smoothing out the discontinuities somewhat, at least for the areas I visit 18:47:12 Vorpal: there is also gold though... and iron ... and diamond 18:47:24 you fell? 18:47:25 elliott, how? 18:47:25 i have 64+33 coal though so I can come back to that 18:47:36 elliott, did you dig right below yourself 18:47:38 Vorpal: turns out when i removed a block to make my stairs go down further 18:47:39 no 18:47:41 i just didn't notice 18:47:44 since it was obscured by darkness 18:47:55 elliott, so why didn't you use torches? 18:48:29 Vorpal: I was about to place them FFS 18:48:30 it looked solid 18:48:33 heh redstone, too bad i don't need it 18:48:36 -!- cheater99 has joined. 18:48:59 SERIOUSLY? a single diamond? 18:49:01 fuck y'all 18:49:27 shietloads of redstone though ... and coal 18:49:45 but i have enough coal for now 18:50:16 elliott, lightstone on bottom of deep sea is pretty from the surface 18:50:22 like random lights spread out 18:50:24 heh 18:50:26 especially nice at night 18:50:42 and uh there's also water and lava and stuff so I bet these caverns branch a lot but I have lots of iron and a single diamond 18:50:44 so this is enough forn ow 18:50:46 *for now 18:50:53 I have until Sunday 18:51:19 note to self: bunch of torches + torch on cobblestone = entrance to cavern 18:51:42 more gold! wish gold was useful in any way at all 18:51:43 elliott, idea to make creeper safe: small island, middle of ocean, 10 high obsidian tower. 3x3 or such. With ladder inside 18:51:46 apart from like, compass 18:51:48 elliott, and steel door 18:51:52 elliott, at both ends 18:51:54 Vorpal: heh 18:51:58 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:51:59 elliott, then at top, a floating castle 18:52:05 or at least 18:52:12 structurally unsound 18:52:18 elliott, the castle need not be obsidian 18:52:34 which saves on both annoyance and "fuuuu that was misplaced" 18:52:45 well, probably make it obsidian just near the shaft 18:52:56 elliott, do you think this is safe? 18:53:41 Vorpal: well, the castle would need to have no holes in the top. 18:53:47 *on the top 18:53:53 and you'd still see enemies if it had a glass ceiling :) 18:54:04 elliott, you could cover it with torches on top 18:54:08 without too much issues 18:54:44 elliott, but obviously, and exit there would use doors 18:54:53 (iron probably) 18:55:13 elliott, still it is a lot less annoying than a obsidian fort on the ground 18:55:16 what's to stop a creeper getting in the obsidian fort? or is the top closed? 18:55:24 elliott, well yes 18:55:39 elliott, there could be doors to the top but as I said it would be floating above any ground 18:55:42 Vorpal: what's to stop a creeper getting on top, and blowing up your castle's connection to the obsidian? 18:55:43 elliott, and it would be lit on top 18:55:44 wouldn't matter, but 18:55:52 elliott, how could it 18:55:57 Vorpal: spawning there 18:56:04 elliott, but it is LIT ON TOP! 18:56:08 as I said several times 18:56:09 Regarding the slowness, from Notch's Twitter: "I have a scary feeling the lag some people get might be leaf decay. Grraaaaahhh!!" 18:56:16 Vorpal: it doesn't spawn there, it spawns below the castle 18:56:19 on top of the obsidian 18:56:30 elliott, uh 18:56:33 Deewiant: Misread as "lead decaf". 18:56:33 elliott, what? 18:56:44 nm. 18:56:45 elliott, the obsidian shaft goes from ground to middle of bottom of castle 18:56:50 elliott, how could it spawn on top 18:57:03 so it's not floating? 18:57:11 elliott: http://p.zem.fi/kdvd -- is there a reason it does DEP for all but one of the source files twice? 18:57:16 elliott, no, I corrected that above 18:57:28 fizzie: Um, what. Let me take a look at useful.make. 18:57:54 elliott, while a floating castle is indeed awesome, it has the disadvantage of being annoying to enter and exit 18:58:00 fizzie: Can you clean and run it with V=1? 18:58:09 (Don't do make clean all, do make clean; make all V=1.) 18:58:39 cc -Wall -Werror -std=gnu99 -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/SDL -O3 -M -MG -MF build/map.d map.c 18:58:40 cc -Wall -Werror -std=gnu99 -pthread -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/SDL -O3 -M -MG -MF build/map.d map.c 18:58:45 How strange, it's doing the exact same thing twice. 18:58:56 I suspect an objdir bug at this point. 18:59:02 Since it worked fine before I added objdir support. 18:59:33 http://p.zem.fi/g1cc but yes, it looks like that. 18:59:43 Hah... (about PCRM): "If these guys are against your dietary recommendations, you're probably doing something right, so I'm going to take this one as a win." 19:00:04 * elliott does make -d V=1 2>&1 >foo to check 19:01:30 Prerequisite `map.c' is older than target `build/map.d'. 19:01:30 Prerequisite `build' is newer than target `build/map.d'. 19:01:30 Prerequisite `Makefile' is older than target `build/map.d'. 19:01:30 Must remake target `build/map.d'. 19:01:50 fizzie: It seems it decides it needs to do it all again after it re-makes after satisfying the .d dependencies the first time. 19:02:35 Aha... hmm. 19:03:20 fizzie: Pushing a fix. 19:03:38 tl;dr if you just want something to exist, not to update when it gets newer, make it a |-dependency. 19:03:41 Oh, there's a client update too? 19:04:29 It's weird how it nowadays sends trees (or at least their leaves) before any other blocks. 19:04:33 Pushin' now. 19:04:35 Must be leaf-decay-related. 19:05:06 fizzie: Fixed. 19:05:44 http://zem.fi/~fis/what.png -- that thing in the upper-left corner does not fill me with confidence. 19:05:46 " * Mysteriously, with the 1.2.0_02 update on November 4th, all Jack-O-Lanterns on worlds were converted back into pumpkins." 19:05:46 *"* 19:06:14 It also isn't static, it keeps flickering. 19:07:13 gold tools are stupid, right? 19:07:20 what is new in 1.0.2? 19:07:27 The durability is the same as wood, wasn't it? 19:07:30 Vorpal: "on November 4th" 19:07:31 fizzie: Heh. 19:07:37 fizzie: Also, that top-left is REAL. It's CHAOS. 19:07:43 elliott, reading comprehension failure 19:07:47 elliott, you that is 19:07:55 elliott, now read what I said again 19:07:56 wait, compasses are IRON 19:08:03 Vorpal: oh. 19:08:05 Vorpal: bugfixes. 19:08:16 elliott, nothing on his blog, nothing on minecraft wiki 19:09:16 Yay I'm on fire. 19:09:34 -!- cheater99 has joined. 19:09:52 http://zem.fi/~fis/what2.png -- it's also not the only chaotic region. 19:10:26 fizzie, it's the even rarer thing! missingno 19:11:33 fizzie: Visit it and SEE THE CHAOS. 19:12:29 I've visited, but nothing special is visible to the client. 19:12:41 It might be that it goes over y=128, though. 19:13:04 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:13:15 Deewiant: BTW, you're missing gold and iron ore from your emporium. 19:13:24 I know. 19:13:24 fizzie: It does? How? 19:14:08 Well, protocol-wise the y coordinates go all the way up to 255, so he might have just relaxed the limits. 19:14:25 The room is slowly filling with smoke... 19:14:29 It might also be that the trees at max-alt are related. 19:14:40 I didn't bother exactly counting which height it was at. 19:14:41 I feel that chimneys should prevent this. 19:14:55 It sucks having your house in a boring area. 19:15:10 fizzie: Can you actually build above 128 though, now? 19:15:27 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Soul_Sand Since when is it called soul sand. 19:15:29 I'll try to get up there to see. 19:15:34 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Netherrack Since when is it called netherrack. 19:15:46 Stupid tooltips. 19:15:46 "That's a nice netherrack you've got there." 19:15:58 Yeah, I can't even figure out that name ... at all. 19:16:18 http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/eoxvk/sincere_thank_you_to_notch_for_the_tooltips/c19ufzq?context=3 19:16:24 rack as in wrack, I guess 19:16:26 "# The name "Netherrack" is not a misspelling of "Netherrock". [2] 19:16:26 # It could also possibly be based on one or more of several definitions of rack having to do with suffering." 19:17:41 The server-side inventory did fix that item-placement thing. 19:18:06 I should eat 19:18:10 * Phantom_Hoover makes a respirator out of a blanket. 19:18:22 http://evilmousestudios.com/tronic/ Heh, someone got to the "single-colour texture pack thing" before me (well, sort of), except theirs is HD. 19:19:41 Teleporting still works, though with health on it's a bit dangerous. (Read: you pretty much die always.) 19:21:08 fizzie, how does it work? 19:21:50 wait, gun powder is sulphur now? 19:21:56 (says tooltip) 19:22:20 half-step is stone slab 19:22:51 Phantom_Hoover: The server trusts client-sent "player position" packets pretty much absolutely, except it checks whether the path would go through solid blocks; so our teleportation command just sends two faked player-position commands, one to move from (px,py,pz) to (px,+128,pz), then another from there to (tx,+128,tz), where p is current player position and t the target. 19:23:09 Then gravity will take care of getting the player down from y=128. 19:23:37 fizzie, you can target lakes 19:23:40 for porting 19:23:43 That's true. 19:23:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:24:03 fizzie, you need to indicate if a lake is 1 or 2 deep! 19:24:34 Lakes aren't everywhere. 19:24:57 elliott, common enough that it is still somewhat useful 19:25:05 Maybe it could keep the player flying with repeated move packets, and construct a temporary water basin below, then let you drop. 19:25:07 Vorpal: But a322 has health off anyway. 19:25:19 fizzie: Actual flying is a known griefer thing, so that should actually work. 19:25:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:25:20 elliott, yep, but it breaks armour 19:25:34 elliott, only in classic iirc 19:25:34 Vorpal: But there's no health ... you don't need armour ... 19:25:38 Ah, okay. 19:25:46 Still. 19:25:47 Vorpal: But there's no health ... you don't need armour ... 19:25:49 elliott, I like the look of the armour 19:25:55 I might check whether you still get falling damage even if you "move" the player down from the highest point, but I suspect it just counts the drop from max-y to ground. 19:25:56 So don't teleport. 19:26:07 fizzie: Move down 128 times. 19:26:22 I think it will still count the whole thing as a single jump. 19:26:31 But I'll test at some point. 19:26:47 Oh *joy*, a lava lake. 19:27:11 There's also a byte on the movement packets that is set when the player is on the ground, I'm not sure exactly what that does. The wiki says it's for "detecting flying". 19:27:14 elliott, yet another one 19:27:23 elliott, or at the old altitude? 19:27:59 fizzie, for large drops and such? 19:29:28 elliott, course literature in one of your favourite areas. I have no doubt you will say the book sucks 19:29:40 ("Interaction design") 19:29:57 Vorpal: Interaction design != HCI. 19:30:06 Vorpal: Anyway most HCI stuff is bullshit. 19:30:10 elliott, yeah 19:30:16 elliott, course literature and so on 19:30:34 and it seems to cover HCI in parts at least 19:30:36 -!- cheater99 has joined. 19:31:20 And I died. 19:31:53 elliott, authors are Sharp, Rogers and Preece. If those names mean anything to you (they don't to me) 19:32:00 To be explicit: I died, losing most of my possessions, and will now be transported to a spawn point from which I have no idea how to get to my house, which I built after wandering frustratedly at the bad map. 19:32:06 Vorpal: Don't to me. 19:32:19 elliott, anyway, why didn't you mark your path and so on 19:32:27 elliott, or use an inventory editor and teleporter 19:32:38 elliott, or next time, create a new world when you find the current one sucks 19:32:48 Vorpal: Because as I said, I was wandering frustratedly. The first coal I found, after walking for, like, a day, I punched through. 19:32:49 Light streamed in. 19:32:52 The mountain was ONE DEEP. 19:32:54 I got ONE PIECE OF COAL. 19:33:05 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:33:07 Then finally I found a nice mountain with trees and set up shop. 19:33:15 elliott, I would have generated a new map at that point 19:33:22 Vorpal: I /was/ regenerating the world; I'd done it like five times, and decided I'd stop. 19:33:35 Heh. A tree I hollowed out. 19:34:26 Aw, mcmap is definitely not as pretty as some of the competition, like the http://minecraftam.com/ thing. 19:34:52 fizzie: But who uses mcmap for the map? 19:34:57 >:P 19:35:10 It's the only thing I use it for, when I use it 19:35:23 fizzie: Looks like it needs a server mod to work. 19:35:25 (automap) 19:35:34 I may be wrong. 19:35:42 I don't think it does. "The mod/map is entirely clientside, meaning you can use it in singleplayer or on any SMP server, regardless of what mods it has." 19:35:52 "# The mod/map is entirely clientside, meaning you can use it in singleplayer or on any SMP server, regardless of what mods it has." 19:35:53 Hmm. 19:35:54 But it is a client-side mod, not a nifty proxy tool like ours. 19:36:00 Oh, it's talking about http://minecraftam.com/MM.aspx. 19:36:03 fizzie: Yeah, proxies are more fun. 19:36:30 fizzie: If you made your map lighting-savvy (i.e. torches light thiings up), and jigged the colours a bit, I think it'd be fine. 19:37:05 SMP server? 19:37:36 Sgeo: "Survival multiplayer." 19:37:37 Aw, mcmap is definitely not as pretty as some of the competition, like the http://minecraftam.com/ thing. <-- sure, but which one runs on my system? mcmap, it has less requirements 19:37:42 Ah 19:39:53 fizzie, it's path marking thing looks useful 19:39:56 to ehird at least 19:40:10 -!- Sgeo has left (?). 19:40:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:40:21 Linden Lab closed the Teen Grid 19:40:33 This is not as big a victory for anti-age-segregationists as it sounds 19:41:15 Users between 13-16 have to be with an "affiliated organization" separate from the main part of SL 19:41:20 erm, 13-15 19:41:40 All 1 people in here who play or care about Second Life thank you for that information. 19:41:47 it doesn't sound like a victory either way 19:41:50 I mean, who cares about SL 19:41:58 (in here at least) 19:42:23 Vorpal: BUT BECAUSE I'M BETWEEN 13 AND 16 ... NOBODY UNDERSTANDS M3... 0R MY UNKONVENSIONAL SPELUNG... WITHOUT SOMEWHERE I CAN BE TRULY UNDERSTOOD... A SECOND LIFE... 19:42:29 ..... HOW WILL I BE ABLE TO AVOID CUTTING MYSELF????/ 19:42:38 ;__; 19:42:46 MOVING ON 19:42:48 octocat_sad.gif 19:42:57 fizzie, is that github? 19:43:09 Yes, I got it the other day. 19:43:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hm3E2cGQE4 19:43:27 http://github.com/images/error/octocat_sad.gif and then some sort of "the server, it is error" page. 19:43:41 (The error is a reference to those.) 19:43:45 (I think.) 19:43:46 elliott, "Minecraft AutoMap requires Windows, the .NET Framework 4, and the XNA Framework 4.0." 19:43:52 Vorpal: Mono :P 19:43:57 elliott, not xna iirc 19:43:57 Okay, so XNA might be difficult. 19:44:09 elliott, also last I looked mono went to 3.5 19:44:11 not to 4 19:44:20 It goes to etc. 19:44:30 elliott, 11? 19:44:35 AAAAAAAAA MY EYES 19:44:36 Yes yes. 19:44:45 Phantom_Hoover, what 19:45:10 Vorpal, DID I MENTION THIS ROOM IS FULL OF SMOKE 19:45:26 AND I CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR OR THE SMOKE DETECTOR WILL GO OFF 19:45:33 It's not the nicotine that kills! It's the smo-oo-ooke, the smoooke! 19:45:45 Phantom_Hoover, so put out the fire 19:45:52 Cancer, it's the smoke! Heart disease, it's the smoke. It's the smoooooooooke! 19:46:06 It's the, it's the inhalation, it's the smooooke, the smooooooooke! 19:46:24 Phantom_Hoover, and there is this thing in fireplaces that kind of open and closes above them 19:46:27 did you open it 19:46:32 not sure what the English word is 19:46:34 Vorpal, I'll get in trouble if the fire goes out! 19:46:37 spjäll in Swedish 19:46:41 Phantom_Hoover is burning his parents. 19:46:48 Phantom_Hoover, so talk to some grown up? 19:47:01 Vorpal: Phantom_Hoover is *burning his parents*. 19:47:05 Vorpal, they didn't CARE 19:47:09 Also they live in Antarctica and there is nobody else within a seventy mile radius. 19:47:11 On account of being on fire. 19:47:17 uh 19:47:24 sure 19:47:37 It's the smooooooooke. 19:48:24 * Phantom_Hoover opens the door anyway. 19:50:38 -!- cheater99 has joined. 19:52:36 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:52:50 "The first time I played the game I didn't know that I'd picked up clay, and I was wondering why the hell cooking eggs turned them into bricks..." 19:53:37 http://i.imgur.com/WNTDy.png whoa. 19:54:33 OH GOD I CAN SEE FOREVER 19:58:44 "Get this. Framerate goes back to normal if you're beside trees and you look straight up at the sky... 19:58:44 Look back down, and I'm right back to 2fps from 40-60fps looking up." 19:58:47 Vorpal: Notch quality. 19:59:06 I propose we define "notch" to mean "very low/poor". It even SOUNDS like it means "small". Notch. 19:59:52 "Notch" already has a meaning or ten. 20:00:13 Crud 20:00:16 I MISSED MY FINAL 20:00:57 you're a retard 20:01:11 missed missed or can-still-run-to-be-late missed 20:01:20 missed missed 20:01:28 Sgeo, why did you do that 20:01:28 I must admit though, the "Crud" part is a lie 20:01:33 It's an optional final 20:01:35 oh 20:01:36 Sgeo, alarm clock? 20:01:43 That can only help one's grade... my grade cannot be helped 20:01:48 lol 20:01:57 I have to write a final tomorrow 20:02:00 last one 20:02:05 stupid balsdkfjals 20:02:12 anyway, I'm going in search of food 20:02:14 see yzs 20:03:26 Vorpal: I MADE IT BACK HOME 20:03:33 "Notch" already has a meaning or ten. 20:03:37 Oh, it does, doesn't it... 20:04:17 HA I've lost all my iron. 20:05:08 "Noun, sense 1. An affectionate synonym for 'vagina'. See also gash. Noun, sense 2. Someone with whom you basically just get drunk and/or high and have sex, usually on a short term basis. Compare to "your girl" or "a ho", both are higher on the intimacy ladder." (Urban Dictionary.) 20:05:56 Also the OED site has gone all multimedia and web 2.1 on me. 20:06:06 fizzie: For every word, there is a sexual definition for it on Urban Dictionary. 20:06:17 Wrong. 20:06:20 Most likely several. 20:06:36 Deewiant: You know, I had this /terrible/ feeling you were about to say "Wrong." when I said that. 20:06:53 Deewiant: I decided amending it to s/every/almost every/, but then I decided not to edit my joke just because of you :P 20:07:12 *considered 20:07:22 Well, OED 'notch': "4. In various /fig./ uses. a. /coarse/ slang. The female genitals." 20:07:33 fizzie: Still. :p 20:07:42 fizzie: BTW, does mcmap >foo work with the new IO superplexer? 20:08:01 if (pipe(pipefd) != 0) 20:08:01 goto no_terminal; 20:08:02 ... 20:08:02 no_terminal: 20:08:02 return; 20:08:02 } 20:08:04 Yes, without isatty(0) && isatty(1) it should just write into stdout as usual and not start it. 20:08:07 One would think "return;" might suffice. 20:08:20 Right, I was planning to have some sort of initialization done below there. 20:08:27 fizzie: But can it support reading from plain stdin? 20:08:29 But then I couldn't invent anything to initialize. 20:08:36 Well, no, it doesn't do that at the moment. 20:08:41 'cuz then we can have RIDICULOUSLY BLOATED BOTS that require Minecraft to be running for no good reason! 20:09:00 Well, I can certainly add that. 20:09:07 It sounds like a good thing to have! 20:09:38 Anyhoo, also on OED 'notch': "N. Amer. colloq. and regional. to the notch and variants: to the right standard, to perfection, exactly." That can't be right... 20:09:48 elliott, nice (about getting back) 20:10:06 -!- cheater99 has joined. 20:10:50 "notch effect n. Materials Sci. the increase in the susceptibility of a specimen to fracture caused by the presence of a notch." -- but this could be generalized into some sort of software breakage use. 20:12:02 fizzie: Have you got a testing server up on the beta server or something? My computer isn't strong enough to run the server properly, and I'd like to do some mcmap codeine. 20:12:16 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:14:33 No, I've just been running it locally, and I don't feel like starting to add port-forwarding rules and all that to open things up. 20:14:53 fizzie: Woot, I have a commit on my hands and no way to test it :P 20:15:19 console.c:114: error: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of ‘cmd_parse’ differ in signedness 20:15:19 cmd.h:4: note: expected ‘unsigned char *’ but argument is of type ‘char *’ 20:15:21 Oh please. 20:17:32 Where are you getting a char * for cmd_parse, anyway? 20:17:40 That can only help one's grade... my grade cannot be helped ← ...how 20:18:07 You've made it clear that the course is for simpletons and you are failing? 20:18:31 Or alternatively, what do you need cmd_parse for? 20:18:32 fizzie: readline. 20:18:37 fizzie: And for //foo at the console. 20:18:42 It already works. 20:18:49 fizzie: Really? Does inject_to_server do It? 20:18:50 *do it? 20:19:00 https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/c336bce1afe12eb80f18bef1686766f4d8f43ee4 20:19:11 Okay, I *think* it works. 20:19:16 -!- wareya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:19:17 I haven't actually tried it. 20:19:31 Anyway, I reworked it so that inject_to_server'd packets are processed as if they came from the client. 20:19:43 So it should be indistinguishable from client-sent chat. 20:19:50 Ah. 20:20:01 fizzie: What happens if you do //slap <99 chars>? 20:20:05 In-game. 20:20:13 And what happens if you type "a" 101 times at the console? 20:20:20 You probably will get kicked. 20:20:27 Right ... 20:20:58 Or actually not at 101, but certainly at 105 or so. It was somewhere around there. 20:21:11 Either truncating or auto-splitting could be a nice feature. 20:21:25 Truncating would be more IRCy. :p 20:21:34 (Auto-splitting would be more "user-friendly IRC client"y.) 20:21:56 "The Alpha server will check the message to see if it begins with a '/'. If it doesn't, the username of the sender is prepended and sent to all other clients (including the original sender). If it does, the server assumes it to be a command and attempts to process it. A message longer than 100 characters will cause the server to kick the client. This limits the chat message packet length to 103 bytes. Note that this limit does not apply to incomi 20:21:56 ng chat messages as the server may have prepended other information, not limited to, but usually including, a username." 20:22:09 fizzie: Infalliprotocollywiki says it's 100. 20:22:09 Ah, so it was 103 bytes per packet. 20:23:12 I wonder if it's 100 characters or 100 bytes. Could be either. 20:23:30 Easy (but boring) to check. 20:23:44 Hey Deewiant, set up a server so I can test things. (I'm just going to bug random people until somebody does.) 20:23:57 Tell me how (I'm on Windows) 20:24:51 Deewiant: Run minecraft_server.exe. 20:25:01 (I've seen that mentioned on the download site.) 20:25:01 Deewiant: What fizzie said. 20:25:07 Link it. 20:25:08 Deewiant: Also turn off monsters and PvP, or I'll eat your soul. 20:25:09 It's 100 bytes, not 100 chars. 20:25:22 elliott: I'll put it on "hard". 20:25:25 Deewiant: http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft_Server.exe 20:25:25 http://minecraft.net/download/Minecraft_Server.exe?v=1292963092965 20:25:29 Deewiant: And you can't control the difficulty. 20:25:32 Just monsters and pvp on vs off. 20:25:40 Meh, lame. 20:25:44 I think. 20:25:50 elliott: If you're going to be the only person there, how does PvP matter?-) 20:26:04 fizzie: Because Deewiant will probably drop in and punch me to death. 20:26:05 And it seems to be 100 bytes, not 100 characters. 20:26:10 -!- wareya has joined. 20:26:19 "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" works, "äääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääää" kicks me off. 20:26:27 It doesn't have any pvp/monster settings 20:26:39 Deewiant: Yes it does. 20:26:41 But, tar.us.to:25565 may or may not work. 20:26:46 That's the "server.properties" file it generates somewhere. 20:26:48 This GUI doesn't, and the help command doesn't list any. 20:26:53 Same directory, I think. 20:27:14 20:26:38 [DIED] main.c: 106: proxy thread (client -> server) write failed 20:27:18 Did you just take it down, Deewiant? 20:27:24 [INFO] ehird [/91.105.117.134:33325] logged in with entity id 4393 20:27:25 [INFO] ehird lost connection: disconnect.overflow 20:27:31 Lolz whats. 20:27:40 fizzie: Your mcmap, 'tis insufficient. 20:27:41 Now it happened to fizzie too. 20:27:43 It works now, second connect. 20:27:52 Then I got kicked off. 20:27:59 I connected, got packet updates for a while, then got dumped. 20:28:00 Without an error thist ime. 20:28:01 *this time. 20:28:10 'tis weird; it works if I connect to localhost. 20:28:11 fizzie: Nice beta support :P 20:28:20 fizzie: Are you surey ou're on the beat server? 20:28:20 *beta 20:28:23 *sure you're 20:28:27 Well, yes. 20:28:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 20:28:35 Well, TEST FAST. 20:28:37 WELL THIS WORKS 20:28:38 2010-12-21 21:15:44 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.0 20:30:10 Trying without mcmap now. 20:30:35 Deewiant: EOFException even without mcmap. 20:30:42 Well, I don't know. 20:30:44 22:27:49 server -> client packet 0xff size 4294967048 20:30:45 Deewiant: Concludion: ERGO ROUTER FAIL (or server fail or something) 20:30:48 That's probably not all right. 20:32:00 Haven't had problems with any other kinds of servers thus far, so I blame the software. 20:32:50 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:32:51 Deewiant: Considering it works for fizzie, that's a rather odd conclusion. :p 20:33:01 Does it work for fizzie? 20:33:10 fizzie says it works for fizzie. As in, using a server on localhost. 20:33:10 Oh, his server, you meant. 20:33:14 He's not running it on Windows. 20:33:33 Deewiant: Does it say "Beta 1.0" for the version? (Though I don't suppose there are any others yet.) 20:33:42 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.0 20:33:49 And it's Java, you know, write once, run anywhere, platform-agnostic. 20:33:54 Deewiant: Y'could try: 20:33:54 http://minecraft.net/download/minecraft_server.jar?v=1292963598077 20:33:56 java -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui 20:34:13 That's what I use to start it; though it might be just timing-related things, or worldgen-related things. 20:34:23 I've written Java software with Windows-only hacks to make stuff work better. 20:34:41 No, you don't understand, write once, run ANYWHERE. 20:34:47 (I've been indoctramotated.) 20:34:49 Anywho, nogui version running. 20:35:00 The noogie version. 20:35:23 Shrug. 20:35:26 Write everywhere, run once. 20:35:36 Crash, give up. 20:36:15 fizzie: So hey, dem forwarded ports. 20:36:20 :p 20:36:28 Blonk. Yes, it certainly does seem to break even on a direct connection. 20:36:36 Deewiant: Any interesting messages in the server console? 20:36:47 This time it printed a few SocketExceptions. 20:36:57 java.net.SocketException: Software caused connection abort: recv failed 20:36:57 at java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method) 20:37:04 java.net.SocketException: Connection reset by peer: socket write error 20:37:05 at java.net.SocketOutputStream.socketWrite0(Native Method) 20:37:12 Between ehird's join and quit 20:38:00 http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=110437 "my friends server has just been updated but me and a few other people are constantly crashing with errors such as: - internal exception: Java.EOFException - minecraft connection lost Internal exception: java.net.socket exception: socket caused connection abort: recv failed" 20:38:16 Notch Engineering strikes again. 20:38:25 It's Notch quality 20:38:27 *quality. 20:38:33 "I'm having exactly the same problem - I've tried on multiple servers, and on both my mac and pc machines - I tried updated java to the latest version, I've tried deleting my MC /bin directory and getting new files downloaded, nothing seems to be working." 20:38:48 "I'm beginning to hate Java -_-" 20:38:50 Hate the Notch, not the game. 20:39:04 Although hate Java too. 20:39:06 So basically just hate. 20:40:53 Deewiant: Ooh -- "Bad packet id 158". 20:40:57 fizzie: ^ 20:40:58 Is the server-ip in server.properties an address to bind to or its external IP? 20:41:04 DESYNCHRONISPORPOISE 20:43:13 Deewiant: No idea. 20:43:31 gah, -22 C outside 20:44:09 who called -10 C or whatever it was "really fucking cold" last week or so? 20:44:13 pikhq i think 20:44:14 How much snow? 20:44:30 Deewiant, well, it snowed a lot yesterday and the day before that 20:44:38 Deewiant, but it rarely snow when THIS cold 20:44:39 cm-depth 20:45:10 Deewiant, snow blower used yesterday, hasn't snowed since then. So about 1 cm where it was used. Almost 2 meters in other places 20:45:26 Deewiant, hard to tell what it actually is since it tends to blow up against walls around here 20:45:29 Don't you have weather services? 20:45:45 Deewiant, you mean, the weather services us with a lot of snow? ;P 20:45:56 Deewiant, sure, there is SMHI 20:45:57 I mean that snow depth is a well-defined value :-P 20:46:05 That they should report 20:46:10 Deewiant, and I don't know where to find it on there 20:47:31 isthesnowdepthinswedentodayreallyfuckingdeep.com: "YES" 20:47:37 There's your value. 20:48:06 elliott, well, at least over a meter I'd say 20:48:11 but I can't find official values 20:48:51 fizzie: The command-output-appears-as-CHAT is a regression. 20:48:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 20:49:02 fizzie: It's all neon-coloured and unreadable now for those of us with lightbulb terminals. 20:49:21 elliott, no one uses those anyway 20:49:23 so a feature 20:49:23 Vorpal: Use http://www.smhi.se/vadret/vadret-i-sverige/snodjup 20:49:24 not a bug 20:49:41 Vorpal: I use one, and I'm the only person who isn't fizzie who's contributed code, so there. 20:50:02 Doesn't the same apply for server-sent yellow messages? 20:50:12 Deewiant, closest observation is 32, but it is not very near 20:50:20 Deewiant, and due to wind it is much deeper locally 20:50:41 I think it's more harmonically harmonious when it does the same color-thing it does for all; there's the no-color option already, anyway. 20:50:45 fizzie: Yes, but that's "less" problematic. 20:50:53 I don't mind the colours, I just don't like command output to be arbitrarily coloured. 20:51:00 fizzie, easy fix, force bg to black 20:51:03 The only reason they're coloured in the client is because there's no other good way to indicate. 20:51:11 In the console, there's [INFO] vs [CHAT] to indicate. 20:51:20 elliott, make it an option 20:51:23 (Especially considering that the coords response isn't chat by any reasonable definition of CHAT.) 20:51:23 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:51:23 I prefer coloured 20:51:32 Vorpal: I'm talking to fizzie, not you. 20:51:36 elliott, calling it a regression is just wrong 20:51:51 It's chat by the definition that "it's something sent to the client as chat". 20:52:08 fizzie: Well, yes, but //coords is more info generated by mcmap than chat. 20:52:17 Also, it makes //command and /command outputs work exactly the same. 20:52:27 fizzie: I mean, this way, /mode changes/ come out as [CHAT]... which is just weird. 20:52:42 I didn't want mode changes to be reported to the client chat, anyway. :p 20:52:48 Anyway, -c is broken. 20:52:51 > //coords 20:52:51 20:52:11 [CHAT] §b//coords: x=-601, z=-16, y=68 20:53:11 Hmm, ^D is broken too, I'll fix that. 20:53:13 I didn't want mode changes to be reported to the client chat, anyway. :p <-- nor me 20:53:18 Is there any special way to restore the terminal or is it atexited? 20:53:50 console_cleanup() does the readline term-deprep if readline has been initialized. 20:53:59 fizzie: What about closing sockets and stuff? 20:54:25 What did you want ^D to do? 20:54:46 fizzie: Quit; but I've already made it do that. 20:54:46 If you want to exit, just exit; the cleanup is also atexit'd. 20:54:49 OK. 20:55:12 Indeed, 'tis worky. 20:55:32 And right, the nocolor-mode doesn't actually parse the color codes at all. I guess it would be better if it did but just didn't print the escape codes. 20:55:35 fizzie: I'm going to let it send blank messages 'cuz that's totally useful. (If that's okay.) 20:55:42 -!- olsner has joined. 20:55:52 If it's possible, sure. 20:56:04 I haven't tried a zero-length string chat message. 20:56:05 It is, yes. 20:56:29 Well, if the server doesn't mind getting those, by all means make it possible to send those too. 20:56:41 Considering I've sent many before, yes. :P 20:57:06 > 20:57:07 20:56:29 [CHAT] ! 20:57:07 > 20:57:07 20:56:30 [CHAT] ! 20:57:07 > 20:57:10 But they show as blank in Minecraft. 20:57:19 fizzie: I think there's a printing code bug. 20:57:28 fizzie: ! might be printing 1 char of an uninitialised buffer. 20:57:29 Maybe. 20:57:40 It didn't print ! before you rewrote the console code, so. 20:58:03 Hmm. 20:58:18 I can take a look at that if you want. 20:58:28 Well, it's possibly something to look at. 20:58:31 If you push the empty-message sending version. 20:58:43 Doing so. 20:59:25 fizzie: Done 20:59:27 *Done. 20:59:31 Okkay. 20:59:47 Okkkkkkkkay. 21:00:56 fizzie: Hmm. Should I make debug=1 builds go into a debug/ directory? I think I keep accidentally mixing -g and -O3 objects. 21:01:03 (Or I could just make debug=1 be the default. 21:01:10 *default.) 21:01:18 I find it a good idea to give each configuration its own output directory 21:01:55 mm 21:02:15 -!- Goosey has joined. 21:02:22 Anyone know of a good high traffick image hosting site? 21:02:36 Goosey: lemonparty.org 21:02:44 It hosts an image and it's high-traffic. 21:02:55 No 21:02:58 I'm not going there 21:03:01 you bastard 21:03:13 Nice try though 21:03:49 fizzie: Got any nicer target directory names than _debug and _build? :p (Underscores to allow mental filtering-out in directory listings.) 21:05:03 (I am slowly -- but steadily -- leading mcmap onto the path of Java EE.) 21:05:13 (I plan to port useful.make to Ant in a few days.) 21:05:24 aieee! 21:05:42 to ... ant? 21:06:00 olsner: Yes. But it will also require Maven. 21:06:07 elliott, maven? 21:06:17 Vorpal: You really don't want to know. 21:06:29 elliott, actually I do 21:06:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Maven#Example 21:06:39 have fun. 21:06:42 it can't be worse than ant 21:06:49 No, but it's close. 21:06:59 * Vorpal waits for browser to load 21:06:59 And yes, those XML files get WAY more enterprisey and generic and bloated for even simple projects. 21:07:18 p.s. http://i.imgur.com/T1cao.jpg 21:07:24 Phantom_Hoover, different course 21:07:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 21:07:38 Sgeo: I was unaware your college offered non-moronic courses? 21:07:55 elliott, I presume maven still doesn't do proper dependency handling 21:08:12 The course I'm failing seems to be decent, except for problems that are my problems and not the course's 21:08:18 Vorpal: Fucked if I know. 21:08:25 elliott: Bugfixed the no-color mode: https://github.com/fis/mcmap/commit/188d632 (and that's actually your bug; it used to be a fwrite(msg, 1, msglen, stdout); and you log_print'ified it even though obviously (for some values of...) msg might not be null-terminated. (Otherwise I wouldn't have had a msglen parameter.) 21:08:40 elliott, no, the optional final course is a chemistry course, a bit moronic, but I'm not failing it 21:09:15 fizzie: Well, uh, your mother. 21:09:37 fizzie: And no, you didn't quite bugfix it in that it still spews colour codes :P 21:09:47 But yeah. 21:10:26 In fact I'll fix thatn ow. 21:10:30 that now. 21:10:44 elliott, make it an option! 21:10:48 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:10:54 fizzie, I do like the colour codes btw. 21:11:04 Vorpal: You like it spewing colour codes when colour is off? 21:11:05 makes output easier to read 21:11:16 Vorpal: Please stop pinging me about mcmap. 21:11:17 elliott, oh, hm. If it is turned off ... 21:11:22 The no bitching policy applies. 21:11:26 Right, well, yes. It might be best that you just use the color-code parsing routine always, and nocolor-test away the escape-code outputs. 21:11:30 elliott, not to you, only to fizzie 21:11:35 elliott, I never agreed it to you 21:12:01 Vorpal: Stop pinging me to whine about mcmap. 21:13:03 fizzie: Pushed what "might" be a fix; untested due to lack of server that'll stay up long enough to check. 21:13:44 The humans are dead 21:14:29 elliott, why 21:14:38 Vorpal: Because I said so. 21:14:42 elliott, local server? 21:14:54 Not enough processing power to run Minecraft, the server, and mcmap at the same time. 21:15:05 At least, not without waiting a minute for it to stabilise. 21:15:12 (Probably.) 21:15:20 elliott, uh, mcmap is not heavy. So run server on one computer, client and mcmap on another 21:15:22 problem solved 21:15:29 elliott, I /know/ you have an imac too 21:15:29 so 21:15:32 Vorpal: I do not have reasonable access to another computer. 21:15:40 elliott, so where is the imac? 21:15:42 The iMac is in a box and there's no free sockets here that I know of. 21:15:47 ah 21:15:48 My router also only has one Ethernet port. 21:15:55 elliott, wireless? 21:15:59 I don't see why the fix wouldn't work; and I've put in quite a lot of untested code. 21:16:05 Vorpal: Or I could just push without testing, like Notch. 21:16:10 elliott, hah 21:16:13 And like me! 21:16:17 mcmap: at least as stable as the game itself! 21:16:36 At least I haven't sold a million copies of mcmap and made them auto-update. :p 21:16:40 when will ineiros update the server 21:16:48 Vorpal: When hMod updates and he's sufficiently drunk. 21:16:55 (Obviously one can only upgrade servers when inebriated.) 21:17:01 I can take care of the latter, but I don't know how to speed up the former. 21:17:17 fizzie: Get hey0 drunk too? 21:18:12 fizzie: So, do you want to have some fun by looking into my GNU Make metaprogramming bug? 21:18:28 It would make "make clean all" SLIGHTLY more convenient for all mcmap users! 21:20:30 Nnnnot right now. 21:21:20 define c-program-body 21:21:20 to-install += $(1) 21:21:20 to-clean += $(1) $(2:.c=.o) $(2:.c=.d) 21:21:20 $(objdir)/$(1): $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o) Makefile | $(objdir) ; \ 21:21:20 $(call do,LINK,$(objdir)/$(1),$(cc.link) -o $(objdir)/$(1) \ 21:21:21 $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.o)) 21:21:22 $(if $(cleaning),,-include $(2:%.c=$(objdir)/%.d)) 21:21:24 endef 21:21:26 fizzie: HOW CAN YOU NOT WANT TO DEBUG THINGS LIKE THAT 21:26:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 21:27:44 * elliott pushes 21:28:02 Okay, I think the build system "vaguely" complete now. 21:28:24 Being able to set objdir in a less hacky manner in the Makefile should be possible (need to figure out how to handle that in useful.make), and an install target would be useful, but it's pretty good. 21:28:53 Although you have to do "make clean debug=1" for it to clean a debug build properly. Although that might be the Right Thing. 21:31:29 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:34:25 Heh. Lua lets you drop parens for single-argument functions. 21:34:28 Well, seemingly. 21:34:35 Oh, only for string and list literals? What. 21:41:52 changequote(` ',` 21:41:53 ') 21:41:54 MWAHAHAHA M 21:41:55 *M4 21:42:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:45:43 elliott, what're you doing m4 for? 21:45:49 Phantom_Hoover: No reason whatsoever. 21:46:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 21:47:46 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:33 I motion that m4 be made an honourary esolang. 21:49:46 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 21:50:10 All in favour? 21:52:06 Phantom_Hoover: It always has been. 21:55:00 But not OFFICIALLY! 21:55:33 That reminds me, I still have to send a message to Fidelity 21:57:22 Sgeo, what are the properties of the entity you call Fidelity? 21:57:53 Phantom_Hoover, possibly having possession of materials related to BancSTAR 21:58:18 Sgeo: Wait, it's a *person*? 21:58:19 Called Fidelity? 21:58:32 There are *people* called Fidelity? 21:58:33 elliott, wait, I implied it's a person? 21:58:45 Hmm. Okay, so you didn't. 21:58:54 Oh it's that! 21:58:58 You realise a corporation would prefer to forget bancstar ever existed right? 21:58:59 Sgeo, I assume he assumed it was Alluded To Female. 21:59:15 elliott, uh. female names like that were once common (not that specific attribute) 21:59:32 There are people called Faith and Hope 21:59:37 Vorpal: Well yes, but it's also 2010 here. 21:59:43 And... Fidelity? 21:59:43 Sgeo, in direct violation of Hoover's Naming Law. 21:59:51 Faith and Hope I can kind of understand, even though they're terrible names. 21:59:52 Fidelity?? 22:00:02 elliott, I think Honesty also happened 22:00:25 Vorpal: I think this is God's way of telling us that he likes eugenics. 22:00:59 What was that Python-y-syntaxed language that was on the level of C? 22:01:06 Cython? 22:01:07 "Felicity". If you EVER have the urge to call a child "Fidelity", at least extend that kindness to it. 22:01:20 Oh, the think like Vala but with Pythony syntax1 22:01:22 Sgeo: No. 22:01:23 ! 22:01:23 Unrelated to Python. 22:01:27 And no, not that either (Genie). 22:01:39 The homepage had a screenshot of some mandelbrot program written in it, I think. 22:01:46 Low-fi site, IIRC it had no CSS. 22:02:08 Phantom_Hoover, Felicia Day? 22:02:27 Sgeo, what? 22:02:40 "Felicity" kind of sounds like "Felicia" 22:02:45 ... 22:03:03 Sgeo, and "Seth" sounds a bit like "Zath". 22:03:08 With a voiced "th". 22:03:09 Which sounds a bit like Zach. 22:03:12 Which sounds a bit like Exactly. 22:03:16 THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE CALLED NOW. 22:03:16 Which sounds a bit like Eggsactly. 22:03:21 Which sounds a bit like eggs. 22:03:23 I've been called Zach before 22:03:25 Which are OVARIES. 22:03:30 -!- cheater99 has joined. 22:03:31 What I'm saying is, Sgeo is ovaries. 22:03:40 Via logic. 22:03:41 elliott sounds a bit like "Elliot" which sounds a bit like "Eliott". 22:03:53 Phantom_Hoover: I will make your intestines into a stew. 22:03:54 Q.E.D. 22:04:11 elliott, sorry, is that sound a ł rather than an l? 22:04:30 heh 22:04:34 "Thou‑Shalt‑Not‑Commit‑Adultery Pulsifer?" he said, when she'd finished. 22:04:35 "That sort of name was quite common in those days," said Anath­ema. "Apparently there were ten children and they were a very religious family. There was Covetousness Pulsifer, False‑Witness Pulsifer‑" 22:04:35 Wow, I didn't realise that the Soviety government owned Tetris. :) 22:05:01 fizzie: Suffer-The-Little-Children-Onto-Me Jones. 22:05:17 elliott, fun fact: my real name has an "mhn" in it! 22:05:26 Phantom_Hoover: Phantomhn Hoover? 22:05:35 That's the principle! 22:05:52 Phantomhnoover 22:06:00 Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I ever want to know your real name, you're just Phantom to me. 22:06:05 It would be weird. 22:06:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Phamhntom_Hoover. 22:06:28 -!- elliott has changed nick to J_Edgar_Hoover. 22:06:33 Phamhntom_Hoover: BROTHER. 22:07:17 fizzie, good omens? 22:07:17 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:07:21 Vorpal: Yes. 22:07:27 Vorpal, you need to *ask*? 22:07:41 fizzie, how can you quote books in about 30 seconds? 22:07:42 Phamhntom_Hoover, yes, well, it was some time ago I read it 22:07:54 I think Pyramids is underquoted 22:07:58 but that's just me 22:07:58 Surely you don't have a library a metre to your left. 22:08:00 Phamhntom_Hoover: It's this thing called computers, they can sort and search data pretty fast! 22:08:15 fizzie, but did you know that putting books on computers is PIRACY? 22:08:47 God, I love weird little phonemes that appear in about 2 languages. 22:08:49 http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/datasets ← the worst pirates of them all. 22:09:05 Gyaah, I like Pyramids but I don't want to support Vorpal by quoting it. 22:09:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labiodental_plosive 22:09:25 Von Labiodental. 22:09:31 It isn't used in _a single language_. 22:09:37 "It's used in TWENTY!" 22:09:45 It turns up occasionally in two. 22:10:03 Phamhntom_Hoover: NameDB (which is pretty small, only 30000 names) says there's two "mhn"-containing names, Adhamhnan (Irish-Gaelic, "little Adam") and Domhnall (Scots-Gaelic, "ruler of the earth"). 22:10:18 fizzie, no comment. 22:10:19 J_Edgar_Hoover, take for instance this stunned seagull (note: quoting from memory, YMMV) 22:10:36 Naming someone "ruler of the earth" sounds a bit... suspicious. 22:10:44 Phamhntom_Hoover: Didn't you say it started with A? 22:10:48 Or is that my bad memory? 22:10:50 J_Edgar_Hoover, no comment. 22:10:57 -!- J_Edgar_Hoover has changed nick to Adhamhnan. 22:11:08 does /usr/share/words contain person names? 22:11:13 "Frankly, we should be catching these people earlier. I mean, if you have a kid named 'Death-tron' enrolled in school..." 22:11:15 Suspiciously close to "Saddam", I might add. 22:11:16 As in HUSSEIN. 22:11:31 Vorpal, yes, that's what takes up all your disk space! 22:11:33 fizzie: Source? 22:11:38 Googling just showed one archived TV Tropes discussion page. :p 22:11:51 Adhamhnan: That Ozy and Millie webcomic, though I located that quote from the aforementioned tvtropes discussion page. 22:12:04 Last time I was reminded of it I actually bothered to find the actual strip too. 22:12:20 " In other news, Penguin Classics has decided not to publish all the commas removed from Humboldt’s Gift by Mr. Bellow while he was originally revising the manuscript." 22:12:21 Wat. 22:12:23 *"In 22:12:43 o.O 22:12:53 Adhamhnan, it's cited to Ozy and Millie, so the original source will be a PNG. 22:13:06 Phamhntom_Hoover: Right. Unless someone goes and transcribes them all. 22:13:07 The template I made is #411 on most transcluded templates 22:13:09 http://www.ozyandmillie.org/d/20040603.html 22:13:13 IT'S THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE 22:13:17 Sgeo: Ego ego ego. 22:13:31 fizzie, Jesus. 22:13:38 How the hell did you do that? 22:13:39 fizzie is Jesus. 22:13:44 Adhamhnan, you reminded me of it recently 22:13:46 He just flipped through every comic, sequentially, until he found that one. 22:13:50 With his cyborg mind. 22:13:52 Phamhntom_Hoover: That's nothing strange: it's in a published book, and Google books search finds things inside the speech bubbles. 22:13:55 (Jesus is a cyborg.) 22:14:00 I KNEW IT 22:14:01 fizzie, O.o 22:14:04 http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=ozy+and+millie+%22death-tron%22&btnG=Search+Books 22:14:05 fizzie: ...I love you. 22:14:10 I cannot ever imagine thinking, 22:14:16 "Oh! I remember! They published those comics in a book." 22:14:20 "Hmm... Google transcribe books..." 22:14:23 "To Google Book Search!" 22:14:26 It even highlights the word inside the bubble. 22:14:33 "Aha, there it is... now what comic number is it... there we GO..." 22:14:36 "...aaaaand link it." 22:14:38 In, what, seconds. 22:15:13 Well, the book name says it's 2004, and after seeing it in context, I remembered the whole sequence was about eradicating evil, so that was just "/evil" in the 2004 archive. 22:15:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:15:40 elliott: equality of functors is annoying..... 22:15:40 fizzie: Do you have anything, you know, useful in your brain? :p 22:15:43 (Not that I do.) 22:15:49 j-invariant: isn't it just equality of functions? 22:15:52 which is, admittedly, just as annoying 22:15:56 -!- Adhamhnan has changed nick to elliott. 22:16:27 if you just have simple functions f,g : X -> Y then f = g is forall x, f x = g x. 22:16:40 right... are the functors more complex? 22:16:42 oh, they are, aren't they 22:16:59 Let C,D be categories and F,G : C -> D functors. Then we need to say that forall X, FX=GX and only then can we even state that for all f : X -> Y, Ff = Gf 22:17:11 because Ff and Gf have different types (unless FX=GX and FY=GY) 22:17:21 and Coq does not like that... 22:17:59 j-invariant: you could do it in the same way as subtypes? maybe? 22:18:11 j-invariant: except, just use a bijection 22:18:15 j-invariant: i.e. make it Ff <==> Gf 22:18:21 well I don't know about subtypes 22:18:23 where <==> is just a function bijection 22:18:29 well by subtypes i just mean like... 22:18:32 yeah just go for a bijection? 22:18:41 forall f:X->Y, Ff <===> Gf 22:18:48 where <===> is just two functions, both ways 22:18:52 and a proof of equality 22:18:56 Phamhntom_Hoover: Incidentally, I think it's done with OCR, and it's not especially good, since the regular-google excerpt text contains "HAVE ft WD NAMED DEATH-TRON", so it's gotten the "A KID" part wrong. 22:18:57 i.e. to (fro x) = x and fro (to x) = x 22:19:33 I can sort of see A → ft, but W → KI is a bit less believable. 22:19:54 Heh 22:19:55 Or the other way around. 22:19:56 *Heh. 22:19:59 * Phamhntom_Hoover laments the lack of names equivalent to "dark lord". 22:20:29 Phamhntom_Hoover: "Phantom Hoover". 22:21:47 elliott: line 306 of http://coq.pastebin.com/hRgqWQ6H - same thing as before except with SET now 22:22:22 j-invariant: looks pretty good to me? I might be missing something 22:22:34 OCaml: worth learning? 22:22:50 Phamhntom_Hoover: Maybe. 22:23:01 Worse than Haskell? 22:23:02 Phamhntom_Hoover: It's like Haskell but impure, strict and unsafe. Also very, very, very, very, very, very fast. 22:23:08 it's a type error "Hom' (MapOb C D G X) (MapOb C D G Y)" while it is expected to have type "Hom' (MapOb C D F X) (MapOb C D F Y)". 22:23:08 Competitive with C. 22:23:14 j-invariant: ahh 22:23:15 but we know that GX = FX... 22:23:24 j-invariant: you need to do equality elimination? 22:23:25 elliott, speed is for the weak! 22:23:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 22:23:35 j-invariant: like make it H and prove FX=HX and GX=HX 22:23:45 I might just start fresh and see if I can set things with this in mind 22:25:46 I'm not sure if A=B means we have a map A-->B 22:26:11 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:26:17 it's more "use A or B, doesn't matter" 22:26:36 j-invariant: well yeah, but you can say A<=>B instead of A=B if coq doesn't like A=B 22:26:37 and it's the same 22:26:44 (obviously you have to define <=>) 22:26:54 well, "the same" 22:27:01 every set of the same cardinality is equal by that definition 22:27:02 "We paid for a product, whether it was finished or not, and we as customers deserve to have a working product. Therefore using us as guinea pigs throwing nonfunctional code at us is not right." Yet another way to solve any sort of an energy crisis would be to figure out a way to extract energy from all this indignation. 22:27:19 that might be too relaxed? 22:27:35 j-invariant: maybe ... but it'll definitely work 22:27:41 j-invariant: and i personally think sets with the same cardinality *are* the same :) 22:27:57 Phamhntom_Hoover: It's like Haskell but impure, strict and unsafe. Also very, very, very, very, very, very fast. ← so wait, it doesn't have the nice bits of Haskell but is faster? 22:28:00 fizzie: At the same time, anyone complaining about a bug in ANY WAY and saying that Minecraft isn't tested at all gets told "lol UR the tester". 22:28:08 fizzie: Which is just silly. 22:28:13 Phamhntom_Hoover: It's still a functional language. 22:29:01 Anyone know that Python-ish C-level language? I distinctly recall it ... 22:30:56 Aww man, you were able to store things in your 2x2 inventory crafting area until the beta update. 22:30:58 I didn't know that. 22:31:37 Vorpal: The super-rare thing is just a single person's special outfit. 22:31:52 fizzie: "The downside of the mojang cape is that everyone thinks it's an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --C41813981398189. 22:31:55 fizzie: I think we have a duty here. 22:32:12 [["The mojang cape is [...] an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --/r/Minecraft; hopefully intentional.) 22:32:15 *(" 22:32:27 Heh, clevur. 22:33:02 But wasn't the cape thing already mentioned in the same list as the "even more rare" thing? 22:33:18 fizzie: Jeb doth beggeth to differ; http://i.imgur.com/XJDhN.png 22:33:42 I suggest we track Notch down and brutally murder him, repeatedly, in a futile attempt to get the cape. 22:33:50 Or just because DAMMIT NOTCH. 22:33:57 elliott, then what? 22:34:02 Phamhntom_Hoover: Then we kill him some more. 22:34:04 Oh, okay; so it's a single-person special thing in addition to the cape. 22:34:11 Why are we suggesting to kill notch? 22:34:12 Who else will be masochistic enough to develop his code further? 22:34:18 Goosey, because he's an IDIOT. 22:34:26 Other than that 22:34:32 Because CAPE. 22:34:52 Goosey: Because god dammit Notch. 22:34:57 lol 22:35:16 This is for a bug. And this is for another bug! And we'll be here until Saturday! 22:36:08 Speaking of Minecraft 22:36:13 It's so fucking laggy 22:36:29 Goosey: Yes, it's because of DEAF LECAY. 22:36:31 I can play crysis, but not minecraft? 22:36:32 elliott, "This is for a bug! This is for the 43 bugs and 3 "fixes" of entertaining aspects of gameplay you removed in the bugfix!" 22:36:42 So if i delete all the trees in an area....:D 22:36:44 Phamhntom_Hoover: This is because you're Swedish! 22:36:52 This is just because I hate you! 22:37:02 fizzie: http://twitter.com/Ridder_Graniet/status/17306802005741569 http://twitter.com/notch/status/17306923489566720 22:37:17 "Notch could be the ultimate troll if he wanted to be. 22:37:18 How hilarious would it be if he made one more release which was incredibly and purposefully broken and then retired from Minecraft." 22:37:28 Isn't he already making releases that are incredibly and purposefully broken? 22:37:29 I'd do it 22:37:35 I can't think of any other explanation for the bugs. 22:37:46 " please make that minecraft can handle ä,ü and ö" " coming tomorrow, I fixed it before I left work today" -- I didn't even know they were broken. 22:37:48 I'm going to block the patch updater and run old minecraft :/ 22:37:55 http://i.imgur.com/SQhzh.png What. 22:38:00 Goosey: good luck using SMP 22:38:01 elliott, because Notch does not actually understand coding. 22:38:07 Phamhntom_Hoover: http://i.imgur.com/SQhzh.png Indeed. 22:38:23 I don't play smp much 22:38:24 too broken 22:38:36 Phamhntom_Hoover: LOL DUPLICATION. 22:38:39 "Every time you throw a tool, two or more of that same tool are thrown. Each of those, when picked up, can also duplicate when thrown. 22:38:39 When you die, every tool you have is thrown, and is subject to the same duplication. 22:38:39 The best part is is that duplicated tools are unusable. The server detects them as duplicates, and thus are immediately destroyed after one use. Add this to the few PKers that camp the spawn point and you get tools everywhere." 22:38:45 LOL SMP 22:38:47 It still eludes me why anyone would decide to have two completely separate lumps of code for single- and multiplayer/ 22:38:53 Goosey: SMP isn't all that buggy if you disable the survival part. 22:38:55 i.e. health. 22:39:04 It's *obvious* that SP is just a special case of MP. 22:39:11 http://i.imgur.com/GNrcO.jpg MY SOULMATE 22:39:50 elliott, inventory 22:39:52 "Beta, taking everything working in alpha and breaking it, and then adding leaf decay." 22:39:53 "You can either have leaf decay or everything else, make up your minds." 22:40:05 Goosey: Well, it's server-side now. So duplication is broken. :p 22:40:09 (It was a feature!) 22:40:12 Idc about leaf decay 22:40:16 I'm not playing MC until Notch fixes things to ineiros' high standards. 22:40:18 fizzie: "The downside of the mojang cape is that everyone thinks it's an item and therefore they can kill me to receive one" --C41813981398189. <-- hah 22:40:26 "It is complete anarchy in there right now... 22:40:27 The laws of physics don't even apply. I got in a boat and sank through the ground." 22:40:32 I'd still like to know if adding 360*24*60*60*1000 to the value in ~/.minecraft/bin/version will automagically block the updating functionality (for the next year) without disabling the logging-in thing. 22:40:44 *cough* 22:40:53 Turning and turning in the widening gyre 22:40:54 The falcon cannot hear the falconer; 22:40:54 Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; 22:40:54 Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, 22:40:54 The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere 22:40:54 The ceremony of innocence is drowned; 22:40:56 The best lack all conviction, while the worst 22:40:58 Are full of passionate intensity. 22:41:03 Didn't you know that was about the Minecraft beta? 22:41:30 (And not a single fuck was given that day.) 22:41:40 "on one server I got in a boat, which forced me out of the server from some java socket error. then when I came back both me and the boat were still there. then the boat left my clone sitting in the air and decided to repeatedly smash itself into a stone wall. this all took place in my mine." 22:41:54 "on one server I got in a boat, which forced me out of the server from some java socket error. then when I came back both me and the boat were still there. then the boat left my clone sitting in the air and decided to repeatedly smash itself into a stone wall. this all took place in my mine." 22:41:56 erm 22:41:58 "Inaccurate. That JPEG has a much better framerate than Minecraft on Windows 7 64 currently.{I used to get 30-40 in Alpha on Far}" 22:41:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 22:42:05 0 FPS, fuck yeah. 22:42:29 `addquote I can play crysis, but not minecraft? 22:42:40 252) I can play crysis, but not minecraft? 22:43:01 I'm not playing MC until Notch fixes things to ineiros' high standards. 22:43:07 Maybe we should just get the hellworld out again. 22:43:15 elliott, I used to get 150-160 :/ 22:43:19 YOU WANT CHAOS?! I'LL GIVE YOU CHAOS!! 22:43:21 now I get 10-15 at best 22:43:43 Honestly 22:43:47 when I think of the source for minecraft 22:43:53 If MC were any less fun to play, I wouldn't be playing it until Notch left and Donald Knuth rewrote it from scratch. 22:44:04 I can't help but think how terribly obfuscated and inefficient it is 22:44:05 Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. 22:44:15 it probably looks like rat shit 22:44:18 Goosey: I don't think anyone's actually analysed the performance. 22:44:18 Goosey, the best part is that Notch is going to RELEASE it! 22:44:26 `addquote Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. 22:44:26 Once everyone's stopped buying. 22:44:27 253) Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly. 22:44:43 Which, given the state of beta, I would estimate to be in about 3 weeks. 22:44:58 I'd still like to know if adding 360*24*60*60*1000 to the value in ~/.minecraft/bin/version will automagically block the updating functionality (for the next year) without disabling the logging-in thing. <--- does that work? 22:44:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s 22:45:03 for now I mean 22:45:06 vorpal 22:45:07 let me try 22:45:15 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:45:16 Vorpal: If I knew, I wouldn't have to wonder. 22:45:38 I have a copy of the old version 22:45:38 fizzie: You could just try, with an old backup. 22:45:40 I have a feeling it won't, since it'd be so easy I'd have seen it on the forumlons. 22:45:40 If you have one. 22:45:53 fizzie: If you mean minecraftforum, um, the average IQ is something like "duck" there. 22:46:13 loaded flatgrass 22:46:14 no lag 22:46:17 stupid trees 22:46:17 Also, I have gotten the updates when I've just copied the minecraft.jar in place and left the new-version "version" file in place, so I think it does check the .jar files too, but that's just me. 22:46:26 BURN THE TREES. 22:46:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s 22:46:35 what is this terrible thing 22:47:00 elliott, come on do the Qt 4 dance! 22:47:03 gtfo 22:47:15 fizzie: Why hasn't someone modded the client to say to the server, "oh ho, yes, yes, I am version 34589734589345 and my hash is bork"? 22:47:16 Sgeo, go download Oolite and play it for a while. It should stop you talking for a while. 22:47:17 Goosey, so did changing that version actually work? 22:47:23 * Sgeo wants there to be a GTK+ dance 22:47:25 fizzie: It's _possible_, by definition, anyway. 22:48:14 Maybe someone has; I haven't tried to find out a way to play with the old version (and still participate in the authentication stuff) very hard. 22:48:59 Vorpal, nope :/ 22:49:55 Does *nobody* know of that language? 22:51:21 elliott, which language? 22:51:45 Vorpal: It had a Python-y syntax but was about as low level as C. *Not* related to Python like Cython is or anything. 22:51:59 Can you tell us anything more about it? 22:52:04 Quite barebones web page; I think it had no CSS or something although IIRC there was a screenshot on the left or right with some mandelbrot written in it running... I think with a tiling WM, unantialiased X fonts? 22:52:06 fizzie: Nope, I don't recall much. 22:52:09 It was on reddit once, I think. 22:52:12 elliott, vala? 22:52:12 I'm not very helpful. :p 22:52:14 Vorpal: No. 22:52:18 Vorpal: Vala isn't Python-like at all. 22:52:24 elliott, okay 22:52:26 Genie, which is Vala's alternative "frontend", is, but no. 22:52:33 It had indentation-based syntax etc. 22:52:50 elliott, no clue 22:52:54 Grr 22:52:57 *Grr. 22:52:59 :p 22:53:11 -!- zzo38 has set topic: The closer you are to the batsman, the sillier you are. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 22:53:15 elliott, only indention based languages I know of are: python, haskell, make 22:53:28 or at least, only ones I can remember atm 22:53:38 elliott, was it mentioned in here? 22:53:38 Vorpal: It wasn't a well-known thing. 22:53:43 I think I linked it ... maybe. 22:53:43 elliott, if so you could grep the logs 22:53:55 I'm stumped. 22:54:07 I try to look at the MSE codes to learn some things that I might or might not use to make TeXnicard. 22:54:16 j-invariant: My arms are a bloody stump. 22:55:36 One thing that might be very likely to block the updates would be just to rewrite the "version" field of the response the launcher gets for "http://www.minecraft.net/game/getversion.jsp?..." (with a transparent-Squid and a script or whatever) to whatever you have; that way the launcher just won't try to download new packages, but it will still use the has-logged-in session ID for server connections. (Of course assumes the server is old enough to speak the same 22:55:36 protocol.) 22:55:57 Phamhntom_Hoover, oolite looks... primitive? 22:56:12 Minecraft looks... primitive? 22:56:15 Phamhntom_Hoover, heck, even vegastrike has better graphics 22:56:25 elliott, fair enough, but in a different way 22:56:29 Dammit, elliott, I was going to say the same 22:56:34 Vorpal: Oolite is an Elite clone. 22:56:35 So. 22:56:39 elliott, hm okay 22:56:56 And to that you would have responded with indignation 22:56:57 Vorpal: If it looks better than http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/BBC_Micro_Elite_screenshot.png, it's doing it right. :p 22:56:58 idea: induction on syntax 22:57:11 j-invariant: to implement a compiler? 22:57:24 Vorpal, well, there are expansion packs with extremely advanced graphics. 22:57:24 or interpreter, whatever 22:57:29 for equality of functors 22:57:40 So much so that I cannot use them since they break my graphics card. 22:57:41 j-invariant: ah 22:58:11 Phamhntom_Hoover, ever played EV override? 22:58:15 Phamhntom_Hoover, you might love it 22:58:16 No. 22:58:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite_%28video_game%29#Critical_reception_and_reviews Rather well-praised. 22:58:33 I'm not going to say I like it, but I got Vegastrike's interstellar movement stuck in my head. The idea of being fast when little gravity is acting on you, and slowing down near large masses 22:58:54 Phamhntom_Hoover, classic mac, doesn't run under sheepshaver. So you need a real classic mac for it. Or an ppc mac os x with classic emulation 22:58:57 Sgeo, how utterly silly. 22:59:01 a* 22:59:17 Vorpal, Oolite is cross-platform in a beautifully hideous way! 22:59:33 Phamhntom_Hoover, right, ev override was shareware 22:59:47 Phamhntom_Hoover, ambrosia software (I presume you heard about it) 23:00:11 10.10.27:18:53:21 ===> Checking for vulnerabilities in python26-2.6.6nb2 23:00:11 10.10.27:18:53:21 Package python26-2.6.6nb2 has a denial-of-service vulnerability, see http://secunia.com/advisories/41279/ 23:00:11 10.10.27:18:53:32 same for python25 23:00:11 10.10.27:18:53:38 i guess i could try python24 23:00:22 It uses Objective-C and the original Mac version was very OS X dependent, so all ports use the GNUstep libraries! 23:00:24 elliott, looks like freebsd 23:00:28 Vorpal: NetBSD 23:00:32 elliott, ah 23:00:34 s/NetBSD/Big Brother/ 23:00:38 s/Big Brother/Friend Computer/ 23:00:43 s/Friend Computer/NO YOU CAN'T INSTALL PYTHON/ 23:01:17 (ambrosia software is right up there along with spiderweb software amongst "cool sharware companies") 23:01:21 elliott, don't you agree? 23:01:27 Maybe. 23:01:27 Vorpal, see http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries for the ultra-cool OpenGL my-computer-breakery. 23:01:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:01:40 Vorpal: Ambrosia soured me a bit. 23:01:57 elliott, how so? 23:02:05 <3 Microsoft Allegiance 23:02:08 They have this audio tool that lets you multiplex/redirect/etc. audio streams that I used to be able to record what's coming out of the sound and save it; except that its 23:02:21 its? 23:02:30 i hate day/night cycle 23:02:31 "trial period is over" mode was to randomly say "Hey, this is not registered, I am a generic female voice" (well, not /exactly/ that) over your recordings. 23:02:31 elliott, stop doing mc cutting on irc! 23:02:37 I JUST WANT TO BUILD DAMNIT 23:02:40 Very irritating. 23:03:00 elliott, ev override had unusual trial period over stuff too 23:03:05 Vorpal: btw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiwinia 23:03:11 elliott, heard about it 23:03:27 <3 Introversion 23:03:30 elliott, oh and introversion is also right up there among cool companies 23:03:41 Introversion is *the* coolest company. 23:03:49 One disc has Windows/Mac/Linux binaries, and is the only disc sold. 23:03:54 Another disc has the freaking SOURCE CODE. 23:03:59 And they allow mods to be redistributed. 23:04:03 or I could just add another axiom to Category 23:04:19 So you can *buy a disc with the source code on* and *redistribute your modifications, even as binaries*. 23:04:22 Meh, I rather disliked Uplink. Loved the music, not so much the game 23:04:29 Then again, I only tried the trial version 23:04:32 Is Darwinia better? 23:04:34 The game is awesome. 23:04:38 Sgeo, that is because, as has been established, you have terrible taste. 23:04:45 Darwinia I haven't played due to not having a good enough computer when it came out. 23:04:46 Introversion is *the* coolest company. <-- no 23:04:50 Vorpal: Yes. It really is. 23:04:56 elliott, they never released the final darwinia upgrade for linux 23:05:05 elliott, that took them down a notch 23:05:06 Vorpal: I see. So what company is better? 23:05:15 If you can't name one: SORRY, still the coolest. 23:05:16 elliott, I had great fun once I worked out that with a single relatively-high risk hack you can get a million currencies. 23:05:18 elliott, well, I don't know any. But they are not perfect 23:05:27 Phamhntom_Hoover: Heh. I could never get the storyline to start. 23:05:28 elliott, still they are cool, but that thing soured me a bit 23:05:28 brb. 23:05:28 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:05:43 Maybe I shouldn't have read about the storyline 23:05:54 So you can go from crappy starting equipment, with some bank-oriented upgrade to OMGAWESOME supercomputer. 23:06:00 Darwinia I haven't played due to not having a good enough computer when it came out. <-- wait what 23:06:07 *upgrades 23:06:11 Maybe I'll try it agan 23:06:13 again 23:06:15 elliott, darwinia (awesome awesome) has *retro* graphics 23:06:30 Is there a Darwinia trial? 23:06:32 elliott, it is low polygon 23:06:37 Sgeo, think so 23:06:38 Sgeo, there's a demo. 23:06:43 Awesome 23:06:46 ah yeah demo 23:06:50 not the full thing of course 23:06:53 Maybe after Monday I'll try it 23:07:03 Sgeo, first thing: disable mouse gesture interface 23:07:07 it is bloody annoying 23:07:07 Uplink doesn't work on modern Linux systems, though, due to the evils of shared libraries. 23:07:10 And Braid. And get back to work on the Project 23:07:17 Phamhntom_Hoover, ouch 23:07:23 Vorpal, I know! 23:07:24 And ban all IPs on Wikisuperosity 23:07:26 ANd and and 23:07:28 Phamhntom_Hoover, was uplink the nuclear war one? 23:07:38 Vorpal, Uplink's the "hacking" one 23:07:40 Vorpal, no, the Hollywood hacking simulator. 23:07:45 oh 23:07:48 I never played it 23:07:50 sounds cool 23:08:14 OTOH, after completing the storyline about 5 times and hacking into every system in existence twice I got bored. 23:08:16 it had a real shell 23:08:31 you could delete a box's os 23:08:38 and it'd die 23:08:42 forever 23:08:46 NB: never side with ARC in the story mode; spreading that virus is ridiculously hard/ 23:09:09 I downloaded a revelation.exe from a fansite once. Never opened it, never intended to 23:09:34 Except maybe in a VM 23:09:36 Phamhntom_Hoover, I presume a chroot with older linux would work 23:09:40 Phamhntom_Hoover, when approx? 23:09:51 wait... 2001 23:09:53 Also, if you run the revelation you get from the Arunmor campaign, you get a 30-second, autonomous way of taking out any server. 23:10:02 Vorpal, it was their first game. 23:10:07 little chance of automagic deb chroot then 23:10:15 Subversion looks so cool. 23:10:27 Phamhntom_Hoover, link? 23:10:37 you could deposit into a bank 23:10:40 and 23:10:40 http://www.introversion.co.uk/subversion/ is the development blog. 23:10:56 the money woiyuold be there 23:11:01 It's extremely sporadic. 23:11:05 in a new game 23:11:17 elliott, oh, if you got caught? 23:11:20 would 23:11:22 yup 23:11:24 Phamhntom_Hoover, what is the game about? 23:11:28 Phamhntom_Hoover, subversion I mean 23:11:38 In the full version, at least, you could hack into the police servers and get people framed. 23:11:41 <3 the Uplink music 23:11:47 It's a pretty common mission. 23:11:52 yep 23:12:13 Although IIRC you can't get the elliptic curve decipherer in the demo, so good luck with that. 23:12:47 Vorpal, Subversion is AFAIK a Mission Impossibley game where you're the nerd in the van. 23:13:34 Phamhntom_Hoover, awesome 23:13:40 DEFCON is also pretty cool. 23:13:47 Phamhntom_Hoover, that was the nuclear one 23:14:02 Especially since you can have a pretty good time in MP even if you only get the demo. 23:14:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXyHhyDzE7w LISTEN TO IT 23:15:23 You know what else was awesome? 23:15:29 The soundtrack for Micro Men. 23:15:51 Of course, since it was a fringe docudrama that only aired on BBC 4, it'll never be released. 23:15:59 Phamhntom_Hoover, have a copy of uplink? 23:16:16 Vorpal, on the old family Mac. 23:16:20 Not on this computer. 23:16:22 Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y8IkcUGV9w 23:16:23 Phamhntom_Hoover, for linux? 23:16:35 buy it. 23:16:37 Skip forward until music is playing. 23:16:45 elliott, if it doesn't run any more... 23:17:09 quake ii still runs! 23:17:12 I loved that thing... 23:17:14 elliott, advocating purchasing data? 23:17:15 just use a chroot 23:17:17 elliott, it's libgtk1 IIRC. 23:17:21 I think the world is ending 23:17:22 so? 23:17:28 Or some other stupidly low version. 23:17:29 Phamhntom_Hoover, *gah* 23:17:36 Sgeo, it's purchasing from INTROVERSION. 23:17:38 Q.E.D 23:17:47 Vorpal, watch Micro Men to take your mind off it. 23:18:06 Phamhntom_Hoover, nah, after I listen to the video Sgeo linked 23:18:19 it reminds me of Perfect Dark music (but more awesome than that) 23:18:27 (though Perfect Dark was a pretty awesome game) 23:18:43 Man, that music brings back memories. 23:18:53 (The Uplink music.) 23:18:58 Try the game(s) I made. I made many different kind. 23:19:29 zzo38, you are not Introversion. 23:20:12 You can download the soundtrack from Introversion I think 23:20:24 that soundtrack is long 23:20:41 Phamhntom_Hoover: You are correct about that. But maybe try it anyways. 23:20:47 Vorpal, are you watching Micro Men 23:21:09 Phamhntom_Hoover, no, the one Sgeo linked 23:21:23 According to a YouTube commentor, there may be a glitch in the video 23:21:27 Vorpal, the Uplink soundtrack is long, obviously. 23:21:31 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:21:42 Phamhntom_Hoover, I will watch the other one when you help me find uplink (I bought darwinia, after I tried it) 23:21:49 (I never buy something before trying) 23:22:10 Vorpal, what time? 23:22:18 Vorpal, http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/downloads/uplink-demo-1.54.sh 23:22:18 7:50 some awesomeness 23:22:30 You should be able to fix it better than I. 23:22:41 Phamhntom_Hoover, I meant full version 23:22:45 Do you like this kind of game http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/xnazzyball.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/meskilb.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/oldgamescreen/009.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/games/DiskCatch2.png or http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/screen.png 23:22:54 Vorpal, not sure. 23:23:04 I think I got the Mac version from Ambrosia. 23:23:10 zzo38, NO. 23:23:10 zzo38, DF clone? 23:23:13 Probably you don't know without a description. 23:23:15 Phamhntom_Hoover, they were involved? 23:23:25 Sgeo: What is DF clone? 23:23:29 Vorpal, they're Introversion's Mac distributor AFAIK. 23:23:37 zzo38, I hate puzzle games in general 23:23:43 Phamhntom_Hoover, ah 23:23:44 zzo38, the graphics of that last screenshot look like they're from Dwarf Fortress 23:23:47 For Darwinia, Multiwinia, DEFCON and Uplink. 23:23:51 ah 23:24:09 Phamhntom_Hoover, their trial-over stuff is on crack however 23:24:10 Sgeo: They aren't. They are the CP437 character set, though. 23:24:18 Sgeo, but less literate. 23:24:19 (as exemplified by elliott) 23:24:34 Vorpal, are you watching Micro Men yes 23:24:34 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:36 *yet 23:24:40 Phamhntom_Hoover, uplink still 23:24:48 Phamhntom_Hoover, several minutes left 23:24:53 Phamhntom_Hoover, sorry about upstaging you 23:25:04 Sgeo, you watch Micro Men. 23:25:14 After the Uplink soundtrack is over 23:25:16 It's like the best thing the BBC have made since forever. 23:25:37 Phamhntom_Hoover, well. We will see. 23:25:56 Vorpal, there's glitching around 11:20 23:26:07 Phamhntom_Hoover, but uplink music reminds me of Perfect Dark in parts 23:26:08 not all parts though 23:26:13 but I guess that is only natural considering the genre 23:26:20 Glitching ends before 11:30 23:26:24 Hey, I have a copy of Perfect Dark somewhere!! 23:26:43 Phamhntom_Hoover, well, it doesn't work well under mupen64plus 23:26:47 Phamhntom_Hoover, that is all I can say 23:26:47 For the last screen-shot, if you want information (and list of things that are not true in the "Criticize" section), see: http://www.digitalmzx.net/wiki/index.php?title=Super_ASCII_MZX_Town 23:26:51 I've never *played* it, and I'm not entirely confident it or the second-hand N64 work, but.. 23:27:04 Phamhntom_Hoover, hah 23:27:14 Phamhntom_Hoover, it is, or was, an awesome game 23:27:30 Vorpal, <3 Rogue Squadron, incidentally. 23:27:39 Vorpal: the only reason pirating minecraft was acceptable for demoing is because there is no demo offered. you can easily figure out whether you'll like uplink from the demo. if you just want to pirate it, fine, but don't phrase it as trying-before-you-buy. 23:27:42 and don't expect Phamhntom_Hoover to help you 23:28:05 Phamhntom_Hoover, never played that 23:28:09 Phamhntom_Hoover, genre? 23:28:22 Vorpal, space-sim-but-not-really. 23:28:27 Phamhntom_Hoover, hm 23:28:50 It *should* be a space sim, but exactly one of the levels are in anything that could be called space. 23:28:52 Sgeo: Now do you like this game? 23:29:35 It hardened me against escort missions early on. 23:29:48 Vorpal: the only reason pirating minecraft was acceptable for demoing is because there is no demo offered. you can easily figure out whether you'll like uplink from the demo. if you just want to pirate it, fine, but don't phrase it as trying-before-you-buy. 23:29:48 and don't expect Phamhntom_Hoover to help you 23:30:06 "Some of the puzzles do not work correctly except on the author's computer" 23:30:26 Oh, those criticisms are all jokes? 23:30:42 We're not supposed to kill BIG_MONSTER? 23:30:47 Sgeo: That isn't true, though. Everything in the criticisms list is untrue. 23:30:51 elliott: axioms like forall {X X' Y}, ObEq X X' -> Hom X Y -> Hom X' Y can't be realized 23:30:57 Rogue Squadron and OoT were basically the first games I played. 23:31:05 zzo38, Criticisms says to kill the BIG_MONSTER... 23:31:05 j-invariant: goodbye constructivism :P 23:31:15 there needs to be a way... 23:31:44 Sgeo: Yes you shouldn't kill BIG_MONSTER. (You can't, anyways. But even if you could, you shouldn't. You should kill MEDIUM_SIZE_MONSTER though, because they are bad and BIG_MONSTER can help you to beat them.) 23:32:25 Understand? 23:32:38 * Sgeo decides not to trust zzo38 to write cross-platform software 23:32:54 * Phamhntom_Hoover decides not to trust zzo38 for ANYTHING. 23:33:14 "so you have to use the same forked version of MegaZeux that zzo38 wrote" 23:33:34 Sgeo: This game is cross-platform software. Most of the software I write is cross-platform software and most of it works. (I have even tested some of my programs on Linux and they work.) 23:33:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:34:08 Phamhntom_Hoover, so what about that micromen 23:34:15 Phamhntom_Hoover, decent music, but that's it 23:34:18 zzo38, I meant in the sense of "is likely to write his own fork of the platform and make it run exclusively on that" 23:34:19 Sgeo: That is for Part II. Part I does not require it (but does work with my version of MegaZeux). I have only compiled my forked version of MegaZeux on Windows, but it should work on other operating system, too. 23:34:30 Vorpal, Philistine. 23:34:34 Phamhntom_Hoover, hm? 23:34:35 I expected as much! 23:34:45 Phamhntom_Hoover, I loved uplink music! 23:35:02 i bet Vorpal wouldn't even like the IT crowd! 23:35:07 RABBLE RABBLE 23:35:09 I love The IT Crowd! 23:35:10 Sgeo: O, that is what you mean. Still, you should be able to compile the one with PZX-feature on any operating system with C and SDL. 23:35:19 elliott, well, I did show him the "Have you tried turning it off and on again clip". 23:35:23 elliott, is that the one I seen a clip from where the technobable made sense? 23:35:28 He responded positively. 23:35:30 Vorpal: Probably. 23:35:36 Vorpal, that's a sign of QUALITY. 23:35:43 elliott, something about the global interrupt table in the NT kernel or such 23:35:50 which made absolutely perfect sense 23:35:52 I've only seen seasons 1 and 2 :( 23:35:55 Phamhntom_Hoover, quite! 23:36:00 Vorpal: yes, that 23:36:15 Sgeo, Season 3... hmm... 23:36:25 I'm trying to remember if there's been a Season 4. 23:36:28 Phamhntom_Hoover: What things you didn't trust me with? Maybe some things I cannot properly be trusted but some things I can do it why didn't you trust it?? 23:36:32 I've only seen sporadic episodes; last I watched was the (Street) Countdown one. 23:36:43 elliott, I read about NT internals (don't ask why, I don't know). And I can tell you it was a perfectly sensible (if somewhat unlikely) problem description 23:36:50 elliott, was that the one where Moss ends up justifying the Iraq war? 23:37:09 Phamhntom_Hoover: I forget. 23:37:23 No, wait, that one was the one where he invents the bra. 23:37:29 Vorpal: IIRC it had one issue 23:37:40 Vorpal: in that he said you wanted X to happen when in fact you didn't, i.e. the opposite 23:37:40 elliott, oh? 23:37:42 or something 23:37:46 Why don't you tell me why? If you tell me why and it is a genuine mistake, I can attempt to correct it. 23:37:46 elliott, ah could be 23:38:01 elliott, don't remember exactly 23:38:05 I'm making practical applications for redstone :/ 23:38:16 Goosey, such as the CPU? 23:38:23 well that would lag... 23:38:26 Until redstone can control an automatic mining machine, I don't acre. 23:38:27 *care. 23:38:45 that would pwn 23:38:51 Vorpal, obviously one of the idiots on the 8th floor tried writing his own drivers for the printer and called Moss for help. 23:39:02 Phamhntom_Hoover, haha 23:39:09 THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN: BOfH cameo on the IT Crowd. 23:40:26 XD 23:40:29 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:41:01 Even better: the BOfH IS Renham Industries' network operator. 23:41:25 *Reynholm, you ... thing. 23:41:34 http://www.reynholm.co.uk/ 23:41:56 elliott, shh! 23:42:06 wat 23:42:14 Moving from the sublime to the ridiculous: Richmond is the BOfH in disguise! 23:42:24 Do you like any of the games in this list? BJACK BUMPERSH COLORSOL COLORSPI DANCEKEY DOWN ELEMENTA FATHER GIVEAWAY HACKBITS KNAR MAKETEN MAZEMAN MINES MUDCAGE MUTCHNAM PUZGEN PUZZLEX QCOOKIE SKEDALS SNAKEBIT SOVMINGA STARSTAK STARWARS STEPTILE STOKER WUMPUS9 . 23:44:56 END THE VELOCIRAPTORS TYRANNY! BOARD UP YOUR HOMES! 23:44:56 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:35 zzo38, NO, WE DON'T AND WE NEVER WILL 23:45:53 * Goosey hides after remembering this is a akcd hate club 23:45:59 Akcd! 23:46:02 The best web comic! 23:46:10 http://akcd.com/ THE BEST SPAM PAGE 23:46:17 xkcd... 23:46:26 Goosey: Note: I only hate xkcd post-around-comic-400. 23:46:31 It used to be excellent. 23:46:43 Phamhntom_Hoover: What did you not like about this game? 23:46:44 why is it not anymore? 23:46:54 and I like the black hat guy though :/ 23:47:02 Goosey: Because Randall went insane? 23:47:02 "so you have to use the same forked version of MegaZeux that zzo38 wrote" 23:47:05 whoops 23:47:05 Or just ran out of ideas. 23:47:15 "Your helpdesk request has been successfully received. You have been automatically allocated the ticket number O65LRV2T. Please record this number in a safe place." 23:47:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 23:50:08 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:02 * Sgeo has a Reynhold Industries ID card! 23:53:02 SQL Query: SELECT `userid`, `username`, md5(`password`) FROM `intranet_users` 23:53:56 I am still in progress of Part II game, so I didn't put SMALL_MONSTER yet, but SMALL_MONSTER is neither good nor bad. Now BIG_MONSTER is good, MEDIUM_SIZE_MONSTER is bad, and SMALL_MONSTER is neither good nor bad; this works isn't it? 23:54:11 Sgeo: Now I am going to steal your ticket number and sell it in the black market for access cards. 23:56:51 hm 23:57:02 I created a semi controllable oscillator in mc 23:57:14 there are known oscillators 23:57:21 mine changes speed bitch 23:58:03 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:58:29 * Sgeo sics a female dog on Goosey