< 1291939292 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1291939307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This one. < 1291939335 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1291939607 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see any compilers here < 1291940036 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh < 1291940131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSER INSTRUCTION < 1291940269 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291940668 0 :terry123!~xiang@183.16.126.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291940888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./foo: cannot execute binary file < 1291940890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a new one. < 1291941045 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291941063 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-46-249.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291941224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby present The World's Worst Code Formatting Style, revision 1: < 1291941232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/hShh < 1291941260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are rules involved. < 1291941262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible rules. < 1291941274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&c and &d should be "& c" and "& d" there. < 1291941289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291941537 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could immediately spot "optimizations". :-) < 1291941667 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that :F < 1291941690 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that elliott isn;t trying to write another C compiler < 1291941887 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291942628 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291942668 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291942686 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291942766 0 :terry123!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291942841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z̷̰͙͚̫ͮ̐͝a̢̳̹̪͂̊̇̔̃͛̕͜ḷ̷̡̘̙̝̠̩͇̈́͆͢ǧ̅͏̹̮̟̰͇̝ő̱͚̠̗̠̖̣ͯ̀̀͠ͅ,̢͚̪̯͍̰̟̠̗̎ͪͧ̅ ͙̝̞̬̘͈̫̐͊̏̀ͧ̐͌a̡̖̪̻͕̯̅ͬ͋́̾͘ǹ̳̤ͧ́̀ͪ̍ͦͭ͘̕͜y̸͕̙͈̣̣̥̰͎ͩ̏ͦ̈́̓̌ͧo̶̮̼̫ͧ̐̍̃n̡̝̦̭̰͉̳͎͓̄̒ͩ̎ͪ̄͘͘ĕ̫̲̺ͤ?̥̥͇̦̻̗̟ͫ͒̃͑ͤ͋ < 1291943038 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1291943048 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1291943074 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zatgo? < 1291943097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Zalgo. Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos. < 1291943107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoking the feeling of chaos. < 1291943111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With out order. < 1291943142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T̜̙̙͎̹̾͋ͩ̾͒ͤ̾ͅȟͬ̅e̢͚̣̩̩ͩͯ̌ͅ ҉N̈̾̚ez͖͍̬̥̣͙ͨ̾̌̔̔̇p̯͚eͯ͏̼̤̼r̾ͯ̕d̸̲̗̺i̹̳̹͉̙̳ͫ̃̽ͮ̽̅ͭa̡̺̻͙͕͕͇͕ͦn̴͓̜͌̊̅̔̊̒̓ ̛̜̤̭̊ͭh̵̟̮͔̘̬̜ͪi͎͊̑v̢͖͚̖͖͈̈́̿̀̽̏e̖̝̙̱̗͎̦͌̏̎̅̚-̟̹̠ͬͥ̈m̩̞͔͖̰̥̉̄̅ͫͬ́iͩ́ͫ̏͊̚n͋ͨͭ͞ḏ̩̰̦̫͇ ̨̹̫ͯ̔ͣͪo̡̮͈f͓̫͖̣̭ͩ͗̓ͧ̍̏̄ ̤̩̯̰̞̎͢c̲͓̯͞h̳̗̳̜̲͚ͤͥa̜͊o̳̣̭̐͂ͅs̎̒̐̋ͪ < 1291943143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̨̖͙͖̹̞̗̈́ͨ.̛̟̦̙̙͎̮̉͑̈́ ̳̘̫̳Ž̧̬͎̝ͤ̿͆̋a̹̦l̢͔̟̜̈̀͐g̩̩̣̲͍͈ͯ̈͐ͦ̐̽̽ò̥͖.̍ͤ̽̍҉̙̭̰̼̞̩ ̸̂ < 1291943156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ḩ̶̡̯̮̠̙͙̹ͤ͊͂ͅe͍͖̅ͬͪ̏ͅ ̶̞̬̬̪̳̄͆̍͌̈́͘w̸̷̩͓̠̌̇ͯh͈͙̰͈̫̃̿̒ͭ͆ͪͣ̀͘͢ȍ̺͈̞̥̺̝͖ͯͮ͞ ̡̮̃͠Ẅ̮̖̝̊̀͜ͅá͖̻̞̬̖̮̾͒̎͂̔͠i̸̤͉̻̣ͮͤ̆ͥͭ̾̀t̸ͭ͋͗̍͋̔ͩ҉͔̣ş̷͖̝ͤ̑̈́̒͋̑̀ͣ̔ ͚͖̻͙̲̂ͦ͌ͤ̄͗B̝̫̻̬͈̦̲̮̭͊ͮ̍̂̏ͯ̇ͯe̼̺̠͍͚̤̫͖̊ͩ̒̋h̦͉ͤi̻͈͉̱̭̠̲ͪͪ̈́̀̊̐̑̈̀͡n͈̥͔̤̫̜ͮ̋͗d̡̼̖͕̠̙̫̬̗̂ ̢͈̜̺͉ͥ͌ͬ̀̆͑̔͠T̿ͦ < 1291943156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :̧̗̭̺͗̑ͥ̾͞h̷̨̤ͩ͂ͥ͒̈̿eͥ̅͗̽͛̂ͦ҉̗̝͎͖͚̩͍̹̜͜ ̔ͫ̏ͮ͗ͩ̚҉͈̝W̵̛̱̩͙̦̲̗͔̳̏̀͡a̸̯̣͍̽ͮ̔͒̅͑ͥͥ͐l̸̴̗̉̒̌̐̐͋͐̒͢ḽ̗͉̻̠̞͉͙ͫ̒͝.ͮ͐͏̴̗̺̟͖̣͎̮ < 1291943165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z̶̵̑̋̑̐͊̂̓̽ͨ̃͏͕͍̖̘̱̻͙̗̺̗̠͙̥Ą̴̯̺̟̭̅ͩͣ͑͘͝L͚̙͖̳̂̌̑̈́͌ͪ̿ͦ͘̕ͅĢ̷̛̹̙̖̩̻͚͚̳̳̬͇̮̬̰̬̒̑̑͗͗͆͛ͮͯ͑ͩ͜͝Ö̓̃̍ͬ̏̈́͋̉ͨ̓̂̔̐̐҉̴̨̞̟̪͈̬̝̞̬̱͠!̍ͭ̇͊̈̎̿ͬ͗ͥ̅̓̓̿̆̈́ͯͦ̈́̀͞҉̥̹̮͓̻ < 1291943240 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this creepypasta < 1291943242 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291943350 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.228.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291943708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291943799 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291943802 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h3h < 1291943843 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't screen -x the existing irssi session because it was on pts/0 < 1291943861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll do it. < 1291943978 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291944787 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291944808 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291944915 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1291944918 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen is stoopid < 1291945038 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as putty < 1291945041 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows < 1291945306 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291945329 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291947042 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291947254 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291947584 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1291948006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like your suggestions about this D&D class http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Patamagician.c < 1291948062 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291948849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Null Metamagic? < 1291949516 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291949594 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291952553 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even get it < 1291952567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one gets it. < 1291952603 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also don't get why this channel is fucking up in my buffer...the last line printed stays six lines up :( < 1291952611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, XChat? < 1291952615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1291952618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi < 1291952622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What program? Do other channels do that? < 1291952623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm betting it's because I ZALGO'D YOU < 1291952626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blames ZALGO :D < 1291952635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just this one < 1291952640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not happening in my irssi < 1291952652 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291952653 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291952654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZALGO? < 1291952656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the terminal option is misconfigured? < 1291952658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: try pressing ^L ? < 1291952670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't fix it < 1291952675 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i need a new window < 1291952679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that unicode noise Gregor pasted < 1291952691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had no detrimental effect on my clien < 1291952691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a meme) < 1291952692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Za̷l̴g͞o is̀ ̨to̵ ̶ín͞v̶ok͡e ҉the̕ h͠i̛v̸e-͝m͞i̴n͡d͟ ͘re̛p̶r̵e̡śen͟t͞ìng ch̢a͘ơs. < 1291952694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :client < 1291952705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hive-mind? < 1291952726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I͎̖͝n̨͔͙̪̹̰͎͎v͔̥̖̝̺͡o̱̦̳k͍̲̱̺ͅi̭̲͙͓̗̥n̟͖͎̱͓̯g̮̹̼̘͇̹ ̟̟͚̻̱̝͎th̰͓͓̞̟e̺ ̷̙̻̟̮͚fe̶el̟̼̹̀ị͖̮̯̞n̬ͅͅg̟̼͎̳̩̠͘ ͔̠o̙͓̳f̻̜̪͖̻̙ ̲͕c̢̣̪̩̣̺͕h̪̮̬̙̥a͕͈̱̻̬̹̦o̯̺̬̼̟s̗͖̦̠̣̦.̞̲́ ͔̱͈̭̠̟W̕i҉̘̖t̴̳̪ͅh̝̱̬̭͜ ͕̮o̮͍͎̭̥͉͡ut͙̟ ̼͈͖̫͠o̢̼r̪͙̝͢d͖̮̩ͅe̡̳̩̣͕͙r̗̣̜̝͎͜.̪͕̤̜͞ͅ < 1291952727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zalgo is to invoke the hive-mind representing chaos < 1291952732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nah, that doesn't do anything. what appears to be happening is that somehow the window got the wrong offset for when to start displaying < 1291952738 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a new window < 1291952738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just see the words with squares overlapping some letters < 1291952739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it only makes sense in a lovecraftian way < 1291952740 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291952751 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291952761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see mostly boxes < 1291952762 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okiedoke < 1291952768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the letters are clear enough < 1291952785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then your Unicode support S̷̨͈̼̖͈̈́̓ͥ͋̈̑Ų̷̠̹͓͎̱̰͉̮̠̻̮̭͓͌̉ͫ̓̆̿͛̀̐̓̿ͭ̄̍ͤͅC̓̔̔́ͫ͌̾͘͟͏̶̰̤̺̮̕ͅK̵̴͉̞̰̟̣͈̬͔̗̟̐̎ͯͣ͊̐̇͊ͮ̓ͥ͒ͯ̓̓̈́̽͋̚S̴͌̾̊̽͂͛͂͂ͦͧ̈́̽̒͌͒̋̚҉̞̯͎̝͓̥̱̤̹̙̻̦̘̯͓͟ < 1291952786 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favorite time of day in this channel < 1291952803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you is silly < 1291952806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291952807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions about the 'Patamagician class? < 1291952816 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it really need a '? < 1291952821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: If you don't give me WebSplat suggestions, I'll just have to make it zalgofy things you jump on! < 1291952829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's traditional! < 1291952837 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... not bad. go for it! < 1291952837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That is part of the name it has a apostrophe < 1291952853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Zalgo (all ED links should be assumed NSFW) < 1291952894 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what the hell is a null metamagic? why would you want one? < 1291952972 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone smile < 1291952975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291952984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::E < 1291952995 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291953017 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3: < 1291953023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D̷̢̼̮͍̫͇̣̹̗̥͍͕̺͆̆̅̇ͭ̇̿ͣ͂ͭ̿̀͜͟͠ͅ < 1291953044 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor did you just write something < 1291953053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? :P < 1291953067 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was you that broke my window < 1291953074 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you better not have done it this time < 1291953110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1291953118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOVE THE ZALGO < 1291953127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You said it wasn't the Zalgo :P ) < 1291953151 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel needs an admin bot to auto-punt anyone that uses the RTL unicode modifier... < 1291953184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests < 1291953209 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it broke anything this time < 1291953227 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, it added and extra blank line < 1291953238 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291953241 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291953274 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could write a script that autokilled those particular characters < 1291953288 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before they reach the buffer < 1291953296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The purpose of a null metamagic is mostly for use with 'patamagic. < 1291953304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there might be other uses as well. < 1291953331 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purpose is to what? occupy a slot? < 1291953333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions for the auxiliary tables, or any 'patamagic feats? < 1291953349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: So that you can apply a 'patamagic to it. < 1291953359 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291953360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_v._$124,700 Such bullshit. < 1291953369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is USA v. $124,700. < 1291953385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in full: United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency < 1291953411 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: body table: one arm shrinks five inches and the other grows five inches :P < 1291953481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. If you have more than two arms, select two at random. If you have only one, select shrink/grow at random. If you have none, reroll. < 1291953504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the US *actually sued* money. < 1291953514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you are allowed to sue money < 1291953529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The US can. < 1291953575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They sue the currency to do asset forfeiture, without either just compensation or convicting anyone of a crime. < 1291953619 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else for the auxiliary tables? I should put twenty or one hundred choices per table, I think. < 1291953658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue the sun? < 1291953678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the US could sue the sun to claim it. < 1291953704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that would be against a space treaty, i believe < 1291953719 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap pikhq. that's BS. that's practically spitting in the face of the fourth amendment < 1291953726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The US handling of treaties is that they are ordinary law. < 1291953734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And as such the courts can overrule them just fine. < 1291953750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In short, the US says "FUCK YOU, I WANT TYRANNY". < 1291953753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you find anything wrong with this 'Patamagician class? Any ideas for 'patamagic feats that can be written? < 1291953762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeah. < 1291953796 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the only thing i find wrong with it is that i don't understand it < 1291953828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What parts do you not understand? Maybe I can clarify it? < 1291953831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, *anyone* can directly sue an item in order to attempt to claim it. < 1291953855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue yourself? < 1291953858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. v. The Wrecked and Abandoned Vessel, R.M.S. Titanic < 1291953864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, really) < 1291953873 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they win it? < 1291953879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to sue things which do not exist? < 1291953914 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think not. cases X vs. God tend to get thrown out. < 1291953939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1291953948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. < 1291953962 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: explain what that big level table is about (i don't play, so i have no idea) < 1291953977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does anyone have a claim to it? < 1291953980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "R.M.S. Titanic" case is not against itself. < 1291953997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. < 1291954009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, well, i suppose that's for the best < 1291954014 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The level table describes how many spells you get at each experience level < 1291954015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It was merely shown that R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. did not have a valid claim. < 1291954041 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: spells per slot? < 1291954049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, spell slots per day. < 1291954064 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: only one kind of spell can occupy a slot at a time? < 1291954073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes. < 1291954077 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1291954098 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'patamagic feats ... let you use prepared magic spontaneously and vice versa? < 1291954189 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. 'Patamagic feats are effects applied to metamagic feats (like metamagic feats are effects applied to spells), but 'patamagic is applied spontaneously to a prepared spell, and you can spontaneously cast a spell from a spontaneous slot which has been prepared with a 'patamagic feat. < 1291954217 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291954232 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's an example of a 'patamagic feat? < 1291954239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also spontaneously cast a spell with a spontaneous slot even if it has not been prepared with 'patamagic. < 1291954275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I have none yet, but I guess one possibility is one which allows you to use a metamagic feat by spending 'patamagic points instead of adjusting the spell level. < 1291954299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another could be that the metamagic affects the spell during even numbered rounds of the spell's duration only. < 1291954386 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...the metamagic affects the last spell cast, and history is rewritten to account for the change? < 1291954432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. Metamagic affects the spell you are currently casting. < 1291954455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 'patamagic only affects a metamagic you have applied to a spell you are casting. < 1291954457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that won't work. < 1291954464 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but why couldn't your 'patamagic feat make the metamagic travel back in time? :D < 1291954535 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i evil for even suggesting it? < 1291954552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Perhaps that might be a possibility. But the metamagic still has to apply to a spell you are currently casting. < 1291954561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a mistake is not the same thing as being evil. < 1291954655 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm suggesting that you first apply the metamagic to the spell you are casting, and then you do the 'patamagic feat, and it switches the metamagic from the spell you are casting to the previous spell, if it applies to that spell < 1291954688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Ah! That could work, I think. < 1291954904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My character in current D&D game is ettercap and my brother's character is human. Next time my character I think I should want to be 'patamagician class, and my brother's character is ninja.) < 1291955281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at some of the other spells and feats I wrote too, if you want to (they are in the same directory). < 1291955384 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7eREddMjt4 this is going to take forever to happen, but if it ever does...wooooo! < 1291955494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that video about? < 1291955555 0 :Pupuser402-1!~puppy@61.187.179.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291955746 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a new MMO in development < 1291955749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if the target asks < 1291955763 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large scale procedurally generated universe < 1291955766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why did Bodhidharma come to China from India?" and the manifester answers That oak tree in the garden" those words are understandable < 1291956016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1291956041 0 :Pupuser402-1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291956041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also do you have any comments about the esolang called TNTNT? < 1291956133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1291956149 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you watch the videos? < 1291956289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. Do you have a transcript of the videos? And then I can watch the transcript. Or a Ogg Theora video I can also watch (but I prefer a transcript). < 1291956369 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by transcript? < 1291956415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a text transcript of the things the video is about. < 1291956422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291956439 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just leave you wishing you had seen the video < 1291956452 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a transcript of everything that is said in the videos: < 1291956457 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1291956478 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is a tech demo < 1291956483 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about pretty graphics < 1291956657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I submitted the only deterministic solution to the "123" problem on anarchy golf. < 1291956695 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the problem again? < 1291956720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is run three times. No input. The first time, output "1", the second time, output "2", the third time, output "3". < 1291956757 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo...it's "find a way to save state between runs"? < 1291956793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Actually there is another later problem which involves saving state between runs. < 1291956840 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way to do 123 without finding a way to preserve some state... < 1291956847 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your solush? < 1291956849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the other solutions to the "123" problem use the process ID or random numbers. < 1291956864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My solution (in Bash and Zsh) is: ls>>*;wc -l<* < 1291956884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is shorter than the nondeterministic solutions in Bash. < 1291956952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please note that with most programming languages available (including Bash and Zsh), your program is the only file in the directory, initially. < 1291956965 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, no i see it < 1291957013 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you'd get some other numbers :P < 1291957022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291957058 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello coppro < 1291957070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Are you trying to make a report about the IRC clients used by people in this channel? < 1291957071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1291957076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. I should. < 1291957090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better < 1291957096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do like a chart of the top N freenode channels < 1291957161 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the top N channels? i can't even begin to guess < 1291958249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Maybe you can also make a report about timezones and cloaks. < 1291958301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you know what random number algorithm would be suitable for TeXnicard? < 1291958366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One possibility is the same one used in METAFONT, so that I can reference it in the bibliography.) < 1291958466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that one be suitable? Or would a different one do better? < 1291958554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc's VERSION response says "mIRC version something" < 1291960566 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960568 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960568 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960568 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960569 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960569 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960569 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960570 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960570 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960571 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :fxkr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960572 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960573 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960573 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960573 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960574 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960575 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960575 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960575 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960576 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960576 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1291960831 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181142190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :tswett!~Warrigal@arch06.cis.gvsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-64-85.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :fxkr!~fxkr@unaffiliated/fxkr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291960831 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291962987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone on, today? < 1291963681 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1291965164 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291965349 0 :Zuu_!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1291965371 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291965387 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1291966141 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-64.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291966781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291967352 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291967518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291967545 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291967549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291967620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291967999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1291968000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1291970161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the French translation of Star Wars uses "Ceci n'est pas une lune"... < 1291970453 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291970467 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291970644 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291971608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that makes for a funny t-shirt text though < 1291971961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291971979 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291972799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ce n'est pas une lune." in the French subtitles. < 1291973678 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291975887 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291976023 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291979851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, close but not close enough < 1291980326 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291981224 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1291981710 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291981749 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291983006 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291983190 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291984915 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291985602 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291985610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291985819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291985869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291985984 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1291986439 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291986591 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291986694 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291986802 0 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b73ee.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291986815 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291986887 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-141.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291987355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291987379 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291987382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:46:47 Do you have any suggestions about the 'Patamagician class? < 1291987385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the p is lowercase in 'pata < 1291987447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is a title, though? < 1291987452 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.89.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291987453 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291987455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the ' is uppercase < 1291987476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, it seems that the P is capital only at the beginning of a sentence or in a name, like brainfuck < 1291987553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: er, in a title < 1291987569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's 'Patamagician in titles or at the start of sentences, 'patamagician everywhere else < 1291987591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:04:18 See: R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. v. The Wrecked and Abandoned Vessel, R.M.S. Titanic < 1291987591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:04:24 (yes, really) < 1291987593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :album name. < 1291987599 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291987617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the class is a title. < 1291987792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1291987813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you should generate a new map. the last one is quite old < 1291987958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:21 what are the top N channels? i can't even begin to guess < 1291987962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu, #gentoo is on there somewhere < 1291987964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#wikipedia < 1291987973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try /list in a fancy client that can sort /list < 1291987973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1291988044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ##linux is high too < 1291988045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291988052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also uh, /list will take ages < 1291988097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that long, actually < 1291988102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a few thousand lines :) < 1291988116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat just displays it raw though, you'd have to | sort -n and the like < 1291988129 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291988130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* End of /LIST < 1291988132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1291988185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought http://irc.netsplit.de/ had a sortable channel list, but apparently not. They produce an across-networks top-100 channel list, and they can list freenode's channels (paginated into 950 pages of 10), but they don't have a per-network top-channels page. < 1291988196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if they do, I can't find it.) < 1291988223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, now it went sorted-by-user-count. < 1291988228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I did, exactly. < 1291988252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode in that case, maybe. They strip one # off the name there. < 1291988260 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291988261 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291988285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So #ubuntu (1407 users), then #debian, #gentoo, #archlinux, #python, #git, #jquery, ##c++, #perl, #haskell. < 1291988297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't debian move to oftc? < 1291988308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #debian redirect to ##debian iirc? < 1291988320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian are still on freenode, but they're on oftc too. < 1291988322 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291988325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291988328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's ##debian now < 1291988336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is #debian so large? < 1291988344 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291988345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it redirects < 1291988349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it used to be #debian < 1291988356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the netsplit.de system still knows it as #debian < 1291988360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one presumes < 1291988388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291988408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, ##c is too high up that list for comfort < 1291988411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible channel < 1291988429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's our departmental christmas party now, I think I should be out there. -> < 1291988458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plots ways to overthrow ##c < 1291988461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nukes? < 1291988462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to know which sea you plan to use for the glass cube, because I need to find one for something I planned. Need to be large (but not nearly as large, something like 70x50 is enough for me) < 1291988478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thus I would rather not build where you will be building < 1291988496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, find a sea that isn't very close to nice, mountainous land, and that ideally doesn't have a perfect 128x128 block somewhere in it. :p < 1291988507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can go further from spawn that would work too. < 1291988532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well which one. I want to be reasonably close to spawn due to travel time otherwise (I will need to get a lot of material from my store) < 1291988539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Warp :P < 1291988547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, none yet afaik? < 1291988573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but you could always get one added. < 1291988580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a single command at Mount Vorpal to get /warp vorpal. < 1291988620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on ineiros doing it though < 1291988640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ask nicely? :p < 1291988656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually /warp thingi'mbuilding would be better, since you wouldn't want /warp vorpal to go inside. < 1291988661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then we could visit it too. < 1291988669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But, ehh, just take any sea; most of them don't have 128x128 blocks. < 1291988670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yeah, he said he would add them but was rather preoccupied. < 1291988685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tp dwarf1982 BCxVAhWQXI < 1291988688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/setwarp thing < 1291988693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as for that thing I plan: I have no idea how it will turn out. :P < 1291988701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you type that user name from memory!? < 1291988708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mine I mean) < 1291988718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so: more than I can do < 1291988719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, PHP decided against supporting "finally" beause you could just catch and ignore the exception. < 1291988720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius. < 1291988724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I did. < 1291988727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *WQxi, actually. < 1291988739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it. okay < 1291988746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "B.C. Ex-vah Wuh-kwuh-cksi". < 1291988760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the w is not voiced < 1291988780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'Tis in my mind. < 1291988781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one in that pronunciation that is < 1291988782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1291988789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, heh. < 1291988790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal, are you two planning Minecraft things? < 1291988792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1291988796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in: "B.C. Ex-vah Wuh-kuh-cksi" < 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is one of numerous cases why finally is useful: < 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_query("LOCK TABLES mytable WRITE"); < 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try { < 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // ... do lots of queries here < 1291988797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} finally { < 1291988805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try { < 1291988807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // ... do lots of queries here < 1291988809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} catch (Exception $e) { < 1291988811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // do nothing here < 1291988813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1291988814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1291988815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES"); < 1291988817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only difference is the second example does rethrow the exception. Though this is still possible (however much more to type) it is wrong design. Since obviously you are using the exceptions as control flow.]] < 1291988818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that makes no sense < 1291988820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that < 1291988822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silently dropping the exception is better than re-throwing it after cleaning up < 1291988824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person is a core PHP developer. < 1291988826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1291988828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PHP makes no sense < 1291988830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=32100 see the problem and first response < 1291988831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "transactions"? < 1291988832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cry < 1291988845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, that is how you do sql stuff. With transactions < 1291988848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, they built this language on embedding values into SQL strings. < 1291988852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't know shit about SQL features :P < 1291988872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, php does support sql transactions iirc though. No idea to what degree < 1291988891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah :P < 1291988974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The best thing is, to rethrow the exception, you need < 1291988976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try { ... } < 1291988982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes I'm considering an underground dock. Two waterfalls in the middle of the sea, a bit from each other. then a small river from the down shaft, opening onto a small lake (this really needs flickering flames :/) with a dock. From that another short river to an up shaft < 1291988985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch (Exception $e) { mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES"); throw $e; } < 1291988986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_query("UNLOCK TABLES"); < 1291988995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundancy AND it loses the file/line info! < 1291989013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two waterfalls in the middle of the sea, a bit from each other" ;; use the ones you already have? :p < 1291989022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, these ones go *down* < 1291989023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how MoveCraft deals with ships sailing into waterfalls. < 1291989030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I could do it in the same sea, sure < 1291989066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That might work, I don't plan to buld there. < 1291989072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually one waterfall and one drop shaft. Hm. How to prevent the water from flowing into the drop shaft and making the boat not drop < 1291989088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I could use that. < 1291989090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291989091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1291989106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like the water-redstone thingy, except with no redstone) < 1291989112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perfect drop shaft) < 1291989452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, elliott: which of you ruined the easter egg < 1291989458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1291989465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not me. < 1291989467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lots of lava, stuff dug away < 1291989479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not I, I haven't been tot he easteregg since you led me there < 1291989485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good enough at navigation :P < 1291989493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover: I doubt fizzie would do it, nor ineiros. I certainly didn't do it. nailor: doubtful. So that leaves you two. < 1291989509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't been there in ages *shrug* < 1291989513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so PH then < 1291989519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get lost by travelling for 30 seconds away from Mount Hoover. < 1291989520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no good lying < 1291989525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it wasn't me. < 1291989543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you or elliott. I don't know who < 1291989560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously. One of you are lying < 1291989568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not me. < 1291989576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame sheep. < 1291989589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cows. What did the server say to burn? < 1291989594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever they are, they're clearly evil. < 1291989601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... pouring lava over the whole thing? digging away blocks? < 1291989616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty piece of work, cows... sheep? < 1291989625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiendishly intelligent beasts, sheep. < 1291989626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, I've been there exactly once. < 1291989642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1291989681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I find out who did it, I will make the same damage to whatever he built < 1291989737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you are the prime suspect. Can you prove you didn't do it? < 1291989743 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291989761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ...no. Why am I the prime suspect? < 1291989764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see Vorpal's legal system is based on the tried-and-true principle of guilty until proven guilty. :p < 1291989989 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1291990067 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.72.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291990071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't log in < 1291990075 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says i'm alraedy logged in < 1291990098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it says "ehird joined/left" all the time < 1291990299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1291990900 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CubeHash is not an SHA-3 finalist. < 1291990913 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to the announcement, the choice of finalists came down more to issues of efficiency than issues of security." < 1291990925 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# Given the above, NIST didn’t have much to go on, with regard to security, in making their decision. They even made what I find to be an unusual statement in their announcement: “in some cases [we] did not select algorithms … largely because something about them made us ‘nervous,’ even though we knew of no clear attack”.]] < 1291990947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, down? < 1291990958 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seems so. I'll come there with bukkits of lurva. < 1291990968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no thanks :P < 1291990978 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Obsidian, dude! < 1291991009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, will do other stuff for a while. And only I know the font. < 1291991033 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd just donate the bukkits. < 1291991068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you realise how much you would need? the V alone is 9 blocks < 1291991086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O is considerably more. Besides the scaffolding for that would be large < 1291991098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to prevent lava going everywhere < 1291991117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, going to make food now < 1291991209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ping < 1291991312 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You just need to make a 3D O shell, fill it with water, and put lava there. < 1291992166 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh oklopol isn't here < 1291992655 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291992666 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97.124.32.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291992875 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291992884 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291993256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291993280 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291993528 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291993556 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1291993763 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1291993774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291993968 0 :hoxily1!~hoxily@60.177.51.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291993996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what are the top N channels? i can't even begin to guess < 1291994005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode has a list < 1291994042 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memetech.com is still down < 1291994076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu, #debian, #archlinux, #gentoo, #python, #git, #jquery, #haskell, ##c++, #perl i think < 1291994081 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i saw the whole discussion above already, thanks < 1291994096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait there was a discussion? < 1291994121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was still on yesterday's logs < 1291994123 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said the same things you just said < 1291994132 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two hours ago < 1291994153 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal < 1291994265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW RUDE < 1291994311 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.38.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291994430 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should really make all their responses to logs in a separate file as they read, and then post them all at once when they reach the present moment... < 1291994494 0 :ginz!~ginz@202.96.191.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291994517 0 :hoxily1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291994604 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: whine whine, we do it this way and we like it < 1291994638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah. that's good then. < 1291994650 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffered IO is more work < 1291994652 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1291994721 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i don't care much. i just think it must be embarassing to be ninja'd by hours... < 1291994834 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht, just being in this shithole is embarrassing! < 1291994903 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: true. but it's really not worth any effort to reduce the amount of shit here. best to come up with more and more ways to add to the shitpile. < 1291994943 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inDEED < 1291995072 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ups his font size in an effort to become friends with his eyes once again < 1291995245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just wrote the following: "void* with_rng_state_saved(func, data) void* (*func)(void*); void* data; {" < 1291995255 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291995257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something so wrong about functional programming in K&R C < 1291995265 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is NetHack K&R or something? :) < 1291995273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291995283 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd make it a macro. < 1291995289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack: 1987; C89: 1989 < 1291995330 0 :ginz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291995353 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #define DO_with_rng_state_saved(q) do { rng_state *foo = current_rng_state(); {q;}; restore_rng_state(foo); } while (0) < 1291995354 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1291995360 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO just to mark it as a macro without shouting the whole thing < 1291995366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1291995370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: < 1291995370 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO_with_rng_state_saved( < 1291995372 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1291995374 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :); < 1291995386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: issue with there is not writing any commas in what might be quite a complicated function < 1291995393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*issue with that < 1291995398 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can solve that in various ways < 1291995400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291995406 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by calling the macro as DO_with_rng_state_saved((...)) < 1291995413 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tweaking it slightly < 1291995414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't use semicolons < 1291995422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use gcc extensions < 1291995427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IMO, gcc extensions and K&R C don't mix < 1291995438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not because you can't do it, just because it's an abomination) < 1291995448 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, it's just that constructing functions in C is irritating, and also, you have to separate the code from where it happens < 1291995451 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really aid reading < 1291995462 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291995485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too bad, because I'm doing it in two consecutive functions, the second of which is mostly a wrapper < 1291995488 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... what about < 1291995496 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH_RNG_STATE_SAVED { < 1291995498 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1291995500 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} END_SAVE_RNG < 1291995504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, macros are the wrong tool for this < 1291995514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are clearly "better" < 1291995515 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Cpp macros are, yes :) < 1291995522 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what it really wants is a Lisp macro < 1291995541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp macros always strike me as fundamentally impure and awkward < 1291995547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they work syntactically rather than semantically < 1291995553 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the whole /point/ < 1291995559 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with Lisp, the syntax and semantics are closely linked < 1291995585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think that's a huge negative for a language < 1291995588 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you looked at Scheme's hygenic macros? < 1291995592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're much nicer < 1291995602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually almost what inspired Underlambda < 1291995609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty much syntax-independent < 1291995611 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, scheme macros? < 1291995626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wanting to not link syntax and semantics < 1291995629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Underload does < 1291995653 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly, we need to define Abstract Semantic Trees < 1291995667 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain flags up a warning sign: that actually sounds like a good idea < 1291995671 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like we're straying off topic! < 1291995682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ideas aren't offtopic < 1291995688 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but close :) < 1291995690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they're sufficiently eso < 1291995728 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd just like to say that I highly recommend 12pt fonts on small, high-PPI laptop screens like we have. < 1291995729 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nice. < 1291995731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sounds to me like you're summoning augur :D < 1291995740 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear :D < 1291995748 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1291995752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291995752 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291995756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually did that now, didn't he :D < 1291995756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AWAKEN < 1291995763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE < 1291995811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem with abstract semantic trees is that for all programs, P,Q, eval(P)=eval(Q) must => ASemT of P = ASemT of Q < 1291995818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not computable, *unless* you restrict the operations on them < 1291995842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that for every ASemT P' and Q' of programs P and Q, eval(P)=eval(Q) => f(P')=f(Q') for all f < 1291996093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know a way to get the GNOME menu to only show the generic names of applications, not their brand name too? it's irritating me that a bunch of applications have an irrelevant name on top of them < 1291996112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Pidgin Instant Messenger" vs. "Instant Messenger", etc.) < 1291996144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291996242 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.41.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291996307 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291996698 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291996823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1291997023 0 :hoxily2!~hoxily@60.176.46.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291997104 0 :hoxily2!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291997157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, would you prefer "gimp" or "image editor"? And what about gimp vs. krita then (both are image editors) < 1291997177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if you have no more than one of any type of application installed < 1291997197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "GNU Image Manipulation Program"? :P But yes, disambiguation is required, it's just one of those niggles. < 1291997219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably rename GIMP to "Image Editor" and Krita to just "Krita" if I used both but GIMP more often. Admittedly that is not a very future-proof solution. < 1291997226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or automatic, either. < 1291997233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291997242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my menus are a bit daunting, so I'm decluttering them. < 1291997251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine just say "Gimp" and so on < 1291997269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For instance "AisleRiot Solitaire", there's no reason not to have that as Solitaire really, since it's the GNOME desktop's official Solitaire program. < 1291997287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also it's a little confusing, I wondered "what game is AisleRiot?" the first time Is aw it. < 1291997455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gconf-editor failure: "long description: Project-Id-Version: gnome-panel Report-Msgid-Bugs-To: POT-Creation-Date: 2010-07-27 00:02+0200 PO-Revision-Date: [... lots more ...]" < 1291997458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some setting < 1291997492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D < 1291997527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very strange that the UI is in English but some key descs are in Swedish < 1291997535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some are however in English) < 1291997545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the UI on this machine is set to English I find this very strange < 1291997567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice, this one has different languages for short and long desc < 1291997584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any METAFONT-like music program exist? < 1291997632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291997651 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291997679 0 :hoxily!~hoxily@60.176.44.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291997733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what Inkscape's generic name is < 1291997738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scalable Drawing Editor? < 1291997742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scalable Graphics Editor? < 1291997823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1291997840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out what the difference between Applications → System Tools and System → Administration is meant to be < 1291997844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local vs. global? that doesn't really fit < 1291997867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information vs. modification or something like that? < 1291997890 0 :hoxily1!~hoxily@60.176.46.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291997917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nope; System Tools has Configuration Editor. < 1291997930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most things in Administration are modification, but not all.) < 1291997964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think GF-Magick is better than Inkscape and GIMP? < 1291998037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree! < 1291998110 0 :hoxily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291998124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pidgin calls itself Pidgin Internet Messenger, not Pidgin Instant Messenger. Interesting. < 1291998137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, system → admin I think is gnome settings for system stuff. contrast with system → preferences < 1291998152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but what is Applications → System Tools then? < 1291998169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ones that doesn't show up in the gnome control center? < 1291998178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the ones under system → admin do < 1291998181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes it has bloated so much it is no longer instant < 1291998186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you think that's a worthy distinction? :) < 1291998195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Control Centre is basically hidden out of sight nowadays anyway. < 1291998199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting to it is non-trivial. < 1291998202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Applications → system tools contain stuff like wireshark and other non-settings thingies < 1291998209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gparted too there < 1291998221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gconf-editor is in system tools too for me < 1291998222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it also contains Configuration Editor. also, GParted here in in System → Administration < 1291998231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Nobody knows what the fuck the difference is meant to be. < 1291998235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have control center right there in the system menu < 1291998254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think I added it manually < 1291998271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291998283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ubuntu? < 1291998284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what? < 1291998298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the Control Centre is a rather rubbish version of a menu. :) < 1291998315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff that requires root privileges vs. stuff that doesn't? :-P < 1291998357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's actually vaguely plausible, but not a very relevant distinction; e.g. just because Disk Utility doesn't require root to show information, doesn't mean it isn't system-wide. < 1291998364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's nothing else it's probably something similar to regular vs. power user distinction < 1291998391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, Configuration Editor isn't a power-user tool? < 1291998407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, both on ubuntu and arch < 1291998407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't what Configuration Editor is, so I can't answer that question < 1291998409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you mean the other way around: the Services settings? < 1291998411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+know < 1291998412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gconf-editor. < 1291998418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Think regedit, except less annoying to use. < 1291998420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, neither install is brand new < 1291998421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what gconf-editor does < 1291998421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where GNOME settings go to die. < 1291998422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1291998441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, Ubuntu hasn't had the Control Centre visible in forever (years). < 1291998446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *may* be in stock GNOME; dunno. < 1291998452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it's probably not that either, which is a bit surprising < 1291998472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, on my ubuntu system it dates back to jaunty < 1291998474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm just moving everything in System Tools to either Administration or Accessories :P < 1291998478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so maybe the default was different then? < 1291998488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not that I know of. < 1291998494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh < 1291998498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Amusingly, Administration is in the top-level menu System, so one would think System Tools would at least be System → Tools. < 1291998521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but System menu contains stuff like log out? < 1291998525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think System Tools is meant to be Accessories: The Expert Edition. < 1291998528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it does. And? < 1291998535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not on recent Ubuntus, incidentally.) < 1291998537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think it is a "real" menu in the sense that applications is < 1291998540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntæ. < 1291998541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is. < 1291998546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, recent = ? < 1291998546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can add things to it with the menu editor. < 1291998553 0 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291998556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Recent = 10.04 onwards? Maybe 9.10 onwards. < 1291998559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my lucid system has logout and such in the system menu < 1291998570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it didn't back in jaunty < 1291998577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that's just because your upgrade botched *shrug* < 1291998577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my arch always had it in system < 1291998591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it did? haven't noticed in general < 1291998596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/photo_on_menu_thumb.png < 1291998620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have log out and shut down below that. But isn't that 10.10? < 1291998631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe not < 1291998637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(considering date) < 1291998648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've *used* Lucid, I know what it was :P < 1291998659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can tell it's not Maverick because it has that brown highlight, not orange. < 1291998663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beigey. < 1291998676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I upgraded to lucid and switched back to clearlooks first thing :P < 1291998705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also indeed, ubuntu has gparted in system -> admin < 1291998716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian too. < 1291998721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and in control-center too < 1291998835 0 :hoxily1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291999031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers putting Emacs in every menu < 1291999085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION renames Quadrapassel to Tetris < 1291999089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers appending a (TM) sign < 1291999336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything wrong with GF-Magick? Is there anything wrong with Inkscape and GIMP? < 1291999406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They have completely different usage cases, as far as I am aware. < 1291999444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (Deletion log); 14:49 . . Keymaker (Talk | contribs) (deleted "Talk:Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php") < 1291999445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They do? < 1291999449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will you hate me? < 1291999461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure; GF-Magick is a batch program, and Inkscape and GIMP are interactive editors. < 1291999613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes and that is the problem with those programs, that if you do it wrong, you have to do it over again, and even if you have a macro with calculation, you still have to click the point manually every time you change something. < 1291999647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, in my opinion they are much more suitable for creating and editing images than GF-Magick, because you can see what you're doing while you're doing it, and you don't have to plan ahead as much. < 1291999756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, static linking. Would it not be rather annoying when you have a security update in some commonly used library. Such as OpenSSL. Probably would take more time to get the update out too, since more stuff needs to be recompiled? < 1291999790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am sure you have raised this objection before as it is the first one *everyone* raises when hearing of static linking ... no? < 1291999800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The answer is basically that < 1291999802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291999829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The answer is basically that with symbol versioning, ABI breaks in libraries are *already* common and we have to go through situations like this. Additionally, it does not really help that much: < 1291999830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't remember having mentioned it. Of course this does not apply to glibc and it's stupid versioned symbols. But to stuff like openssl it seems somewhat relevant < 1291999846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, openssl doesn't version symbols though < 1291999847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a decent distribution method -- think binary diffs here -- it does not actually take all that much bandwidth to transfer the new binaries. < 1291999860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you're on dial-up it would be a problem. < 1291999865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but time on the compile farm before you can push out the upgrades? < 1291999892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As far as compilation goes, any active, semi-large distro already regularly compiles many, many packages every day as part of the normal routine of things -- updates, simple time-based builds to check it still works, etc. < 1291999911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Compile farms are fast. And the best part is, with static linking, they'll spend a lot less time running ld(1) ;-) < 1291999913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but kitten will be a one man project for quite some time < 1291999919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So quicker security updates! < 1291999935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so slower since you don't yet have a huge compile farm < 1291999936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed it will. Small distros tend to not be so quick on the security updates. That's a risk you take. < 1291999946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course I would endeavour to recompile all vulnerable packages ASAP. < 1291999946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1291999955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might take three days or so to get everything pushed out. < 1291999985 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1291999987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, I don't plan to recompile for every new library update, as for things like new features and the like it really doesn't matter. I can easily update a library package without updating every program to be compiled with it. < 1291999997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not plan ahead when making the drawing, you will make a mistake! And then you have to do it all over again. < 1291999998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1291999999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then I'll rebuild every single package over the course of a week to bring in a new libc. < 1292000010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, because with Inkscape and GIMP you can just fix your mistake. < 1292000012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use undo. < 1292000043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but for security issue in openssl that is quite a bit. Hm. *checks with ldd for binaries using openssl* < 1292000075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I plan to avoid OpenSSL wherever I can. < 1292000086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gnutls? < 1292000088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have seen a few too many code snippets to trust their sanity. < 1292000092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno about gnutls. < 1292000095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see. < 1292000102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbear uses LibTomCrypt :P < 1292000103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from what I remember it's API is actually somewhat saner < 1292000115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ssh != ssl < 1292000117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes you can undo, of course. But can you put all the steps in one window and type equations in there, and keep them there with the drawing? (With SVG you can *almost* do so, but almost is not enough except for exploding hand grenades) < 1292000118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, gnutls is probably my best bet. < 1292000120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know that. < 1292000134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IIRC There's a LibTomWhatever for that. < 1292000151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /msg < 1292000153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still, a lot of stuff only has code for openssl. Unless you plan to rewrite those I suspect you will need openssl < 1292000168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnutls is actually meant to be openssl-compatible ... *sort of* < 1292000176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, openssl is probably a necessary evil. < 1292000184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say I didn't warn you if another vulnerability is found :) < 1292000223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "but almost is not enough except for exploding hand grenades" what? < 1292000332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, it is just a metaphor. It can be safely ignored. < 1292000343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure I quite understand that metaphor. < 1292000354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then ignore it. < 1292000424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just read the rest of the sentence by assuming the metaphorical part is not there. < 1292000757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it can, not all SVG rendering programs work the same way (some might not support all feature, or might be slow, you might have some fonts missing, etc), and it doesn't do the kind of contrast/hue/colorspace and those kind of things (Inkscape and GIMP are not the same program).) < 1292000914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What license is Enhanced CWEB under? < 1292001327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is under the license that you are not allowed to call any derivative works just "CWEB" by itself, and that you must not change the license. < 1292001386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it must be clear that it is not the standard CWEB. < 1292001418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I included the comment at the top of each source file "% This is modified from standard CWEB." to make it more clearly) < 1292001473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs written with Enhanced CWEB can use whatever license you want to use, though. (I often use either the GNU GPL or public domain, depending on the program.) < 1292001617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to know what the license is? < 1292001830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just curious. I thought it was GPL. < 1292001934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. It is a free software license incompatible with the GPL. I believe the license only applies to the specific modules included in standard CWEB, not to external modules such as PicoC. < 1292001966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want to use Enhanced CWEB to write your own programs, those programs can be GPL if you want it to. < 1292002062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's compatible with GPL version 3; see clause 7c < 1292002131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to add a requirement "requiring that modified versions of such material be marked in reasonable ways as different from the original version" < 1292002142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and requiring it to not have exactly the same name as the original version seems reasonable to me < 1292002178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK let me see. OK I saw it. So I guess that means you are permitted to add modules licensed under the GPL, to the program, and link them together without license violations. < 1292002201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, too, as long as the modules don't require a version before 3 < 1292002216 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think you are allowed to relicense the CWEB modules though, because they specifically say you can't change the license) < 1292002253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL version 3 had quite a few changes to make it more compatible with existing open source licenses < 1292002255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree with you that it is a reasonable requirement. < 1292002320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I made a GPL'd software as part of a commercial project, I would certainly want to make that requirement. < 1292002584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it do to simply type "Option 7c of the GNU GPL v3 is selected" in the license notice, or is that not specific enough? < 1292002596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not specific enough < 1292002653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd say something like "As an additional restriction, you must give any derivative works a name other than just 'CWEB', to distinguish them from the original work." < 1292002704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/original work/original version/, may as well keep it as similar to the wording in GPLv3 as possible < 1292002757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292002835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1292002843 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1292002904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1292002924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1292002955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed to make any of the options in section 7 to be conditionally applied, such as only for commercial use or whatever? < 1292002981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be non-Free, I strongly believe. < 1292002989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Discrimination on the basis of field of endeavour.) < 1292003045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe that makes it non-Open-Source, but for the Free-Software definition, such things are not explicit (whether they are important depends on certain things). < 1292003081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, it's non-Free according to the DFSG. < 1292003087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your software could not be included in Debian. < 1292003123 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I suppose the condition can be written as a separate license, and the separate license is deleted, then it is unconditional, so it can be used, then, I guess. < 1292003167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, I have no reason to add these kind of conditionally applied restrictions except in the case of software I would be writing as part of a commercial project, so it doesn't really need to be included in Debian anyways. < 1292003300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But writing the condition as a separate license probably helps. < 1292003494 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.114.29.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292003646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to how the LGPL v3 is written as a separate license which adds extra permission to the GPL v3. < 1292003871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree with me that octal numbers are good for coding the patterns on a seven-segment display? < 1292003902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly ever use octal, but it does have a few good uses. < 1292004358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1292004613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down? < 1292004653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, no, as you would have noted if you could wait for more than two goddamn seconds before asking. < 1292004672 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-32-81.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292004789 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1292004924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1292004926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu Shop < 1292004926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/ < 1292004936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=795 ha what < 1292004946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ubuntu Mouse" < 1292004948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=643 < 1292004953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it flat < 1292004958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the ubuntu logo illuminate < 1292005414 0 :nooga__!nooga@156.17.4.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292005507 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1292005513 0 :nooga__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nooga < 1292005777 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292006790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down? < 1292006792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dwon? < 1292006821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know if d won anything < 1292007041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Basically having such a conditional requirement only will work for the FSF's notion of "Free", and even then they will be damned annoyed by it. < 1292007098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1292007270 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be separate license for the condition this is you can stop being annoying by it? < 1292007358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some scripts using FurryScript, such as D&D adventure, video game names, TV plot, etc. Maybe you or someone else can have more ideas, such as news headlines, or mahjong, or something else? < 1292007389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still annoying to the FSF for the licensing conditions to change based on whether or not you like money. < 1292007431 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is a separate license, then you are allowed to tell the licensing conditions not to change, if that is what you prefer. < 1292007455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I feel I may regret this, but what is FurryScript? < 1292007480 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably the best way is to look at it http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/ < 1292007505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no documentation yet, sorry. Just use the existing scripts as examples to base on < 1292007559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Despite what some people think, it has nothing to do with pornography or Javascript.) < 1292007842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1292007851 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you regret this? Or do you have another question, because you did not understand it the first time? < 1292007916 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292008354 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292008366 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1292008470 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1292008731 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181133078.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1292008969 0 :Sasha2_!~WHAT@97-124-38-155.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292009108 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1292009473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, down? < 1292010104 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1292010182 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1292010296 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292010440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you manage to figure it out yet? < 1292010701 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-183.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1292011053 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292011184 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1292011731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down? < 1292012034 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's down? < 1292012603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basement < 1292014136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there a NASM-portable way to get names for syscall numbers in a program? < 1292014148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't want to run cpp on my program. < 1292014258 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply sed to the relevant headers, massage into nasm syntax, use %include (if there is such a thing) < 1292014260 0 :Algoromist!~A@115.84.143.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292014281 0 :Algoromist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1292014281 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed <3 < 1292014317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just read about how C++ differentiate operator overloading of ++ prefix vs. ++ postfix < 1292014319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UGH < 1292014333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ [...] UGH < 1292014340 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you surprised or something? :P < 1292014342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook#Usage < 1292014342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean the dummy argument? < 1292014346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes indeed. But this is worse than average < 1292014348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1292014355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember your integrated circuit thing? < 1292014369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fantastic. Horrible, but somehow fantastic. < 1292014382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how? < 1292014396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is like they left in a quick hack for testing during development. (the "sane" thing would have been to have operator++pre or something like that. Or a prefix/postfix keyword) < 1292014401 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, I don't really get that, how is it fantastic? < 1292014405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how what? < 1292014415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it differentiate? < 1292014426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, remember your integrated circuit thing? < 1292014427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1292014435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it needs different function signatures. Right? < 1292014436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't know, it's just a subjective feeling. < 1292014443 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fair enough < 1292014444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so it passes an extra int dummy argument for postfix < 1292014450 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't get it though :P < 1292014474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/ICs < 1292014483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way operator overloading works in C++ is very dumb. I think many things in C++ are very dumb in general. < 1292014484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, do you know if there is a defined value for the dummy argument, or is actually using it implementation-defined (or even undefined)? < 1292014487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Definw how it's my integrated circuit thing. < 1292014496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure. < 1292014497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Define < 1292014518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a PRNG. < 1292014550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo& Foo::operator++() { /* code for prefix */ return *this; } Foo Foo::operator++(int this_is_so_stupid) { /* code for postfix */ return whatever; } -- what's not to like! < 1292014560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, bookshelves in some form. < 1292014588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/Readable_bookshelves < 1292014667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could make a prng in redstone by making use of the timing issues of redstone on SMP :P < 1292014697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, do you know if there is a defined value for the dummy argument, or is actually using it implementation-defined (or even undefined)? <-- no idea. one source says "constant dummy value" < 1292014698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's a server mod though. < 1292014702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are all of these server mods? < 1292014703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the dummy argument is defined to have a value of 0 when the postfix code is called. I'd like to know how much code there is in the world that actually relies on that value. :p < 1292014710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they are. < 1292014711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L A M E < 1292014714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not so much server mods as plugins to hMod. < 1292014729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an actual redstone PRNG. < 1292014735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can be installed while it was running. < 1292014746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ISO/IEC 14882:2003(E) 13.5.7 para 1: "When the postfix increment is called as a result of using the ++ operator, the int argument will have value zero.125)" < 1292014754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lame indeed < 1292014769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"125) Calling operator++ explicitly, as in expressions like a.operator++(2), has no special properties: The argument to operator++ is 2.") < 1292014785 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ooh, that implies that you can call it explicitly with a non-zero value :) < 1292014790 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292014795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, it isn't an hMod plugin. Forget it. < 1292014798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you was to decide it would no longer be minecraft that we ran. But some sort of blinkenlightcraftbling < 1292014800 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++(7) or something like that < 1292014808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Right, that's the second line I pasted. < 1292014816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WaitI'mnotsureanymore < 1292014838 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: doh, missed that :) < 1292014850 0 :Algoromist!~A@115.84.143.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1292014861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: ooh, that implies that you can call it explicitly with a non-zero value :) <-- you can explicitly call operations in C++ iirc. Except for the classical C types < 1292014863 0 :Algoromist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1292014866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a void argument < 1292014868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operators* < 1292014869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator++(void x) < 1292014870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1292014875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're not allowed to use, except as < 1292014877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x; < 1292014879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1292014880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) x; < 1292014892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right, again, that was the second line I pasted. < 1292014893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could do < 1292014899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++(function_returning_void()) < 1292014900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see! < 1292014906 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1292014918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus points for not allowing a void value/argument ANYWHERE but in operator++. < 1292014930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet having (void) in a declaration imply one void argument, thus making every C89 header ever invalid. < 1292014939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the only time you could use that in a declaration would be for operator++. < 1292014962 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you also add an empty expression and make it have a void type :D < 1292015010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that calling foo(), where foo is declared foo(void) actually calls it with one void argument < 1292015070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, the syntax for a void argument is (;) < 1292015076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the null statement results in a void value < 1292015081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, ok < 1292015082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, C++ apparently left out operator** to simplify parsing. How utterly ironic < 1292015083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo->operator++((;)) < 1292015090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but statements don't have values, stupid < 1292015098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty *expression* has a value :) < 1292015100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might like that irony too < 1292015115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when has C++ ever been logical? < 1292015116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty statement is simply an expression statement evaluating the empty expression! < 1292015125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't suppose you have a nasm struct declaration for an ELF header? :p < 1292015129 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292015133 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do not, no < 1292015165 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1292015180 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I won't have ELF in my OS, I'll just have a jump-to-first-byte binary format - considering making the "magic" value an x86 jmp instruction :D < 1292015213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: who needs a magic value! < 1292015217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute anything you're told to < 1292015227 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, but I think hashbang is useful enough to keep around < 1292015255 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably pluggable loaders too, since that should allow me to support ELF too in theory < 1292015257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: psht, do what the commodore 64 did (sort of); instead of hashbangs, use some assembly code that does exec(interp, myfilename) < 1292015272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then just have a compiler that turns #!foo at the start of a file to a program with that at the top! < 1292015296 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashbang is useful because it's in ASCII, you don't need a binary editor to edit shell scripts < 1292015302 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, that can be done < 1292015304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you have to compile it on every computer, the file won't just run on all computer, but it can still work, I guess. < 1292015308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can do x86 code in ascii, just ask ais523 < 1292015312 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, having the shell recognize hashbangs works < 1292015315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote a self-uudecoder program in entirely ascii < 1292015319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not really, exec() < 1292015322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. what does init do < 1292015382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jump to first byte format can work, maybe similar to .COM format, it can load the PSP (program segment prefix). < 1292015384 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, init can be limited to the set of binary formats actually supported by the vanilla kernel < 1292015386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nasm-mode is supremely irritating for structures :P < 1292015393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, I mean, init scripts < 1292015398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scripts that init calls < 1292015404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with exec() < 1292015407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be in any language :) < 1292015458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they just need to be something that init can execute, and init doesn't necessarily use exec(), and exec() doesn't necessarily even exist < 1292015507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, C++ allows overloading the comma operator?! < 1292015511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even make sense < 1292015521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well of course C++ isn't required to make sense) < 1292015530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but here I meant "how can that even have a meaning") < 1292015540 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comma operator overloading is hardly the most weird part of C++ even :P < 1292015558 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy, it's a binary operator, you can make it do whatever you want < 1292015566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oooh, the comma operator does the dummy int too < 1292015575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1292015576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1292015580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think it doesn't make sense to overload the comma operator, though. < 1292015595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is binary but exists in prefix and postfix < 1292015598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1292015660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it isn't even like the comma operator is commonly used in C... I mean, to stuff into for (...) or while (...) is the only common usage afaik < 1292015699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you can overload ->.... < 1292015706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you handle this-> then < 1292015712 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not used a lot, no... maybe for corner cases like sequencing into a single statement or to do something similar to statement expressions < 1292015722 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this-> doesn't invoke the overload < 1292015728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, how boring :P < 1292015733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pointer to Foo, not a Foo < 1292015740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1292015745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so this->->? < 1292015746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is often used to implement classes that behave like pointers < 1292015747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1292015753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*this)-> < 1292015757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how silly < 1292015765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever do that? < 1292015767 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart pointers, handles, etc < 1292015768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for the syle? < 1292015772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what < 1292015783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, n/m < 1292015795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how can this ever be a **? < 1292015807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this is C, right? < 1292015819 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Sgeo is lost, right? < 1292015845 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still C++: vorpal is reading about C++ and finding things he find weird :) < 1292015862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: C/C++! < 1292015865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mauled < 1292015883 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, this is *well* into the C++-only part of C/C++ < 1292015884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, only because a course uses it < 1292015888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm translating http://www.sco.com/developers/gabi/1998-04-29/ch4.eheader.html (lolol sco.com yeah yeah) to nasm and it's a pain :) < 1292015890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i was joking < 1292015894 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, ok < 1292015898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok then. Why would this ever be a **? < 1292015905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it isn't < 1292015913 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever ask? :P < 1292015924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*this)-> < 1292015963 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pointer to Foo, (*this) is a Foo, Foo presumably has an overloaded -> operator, it gets called < 1292015988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1292015995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing your own elf header is a bitch < 1292016031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, someone will tell me that * and & (as deref and ref) can be overloaded < 1292016037 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operator would then return a pointer to Bar, and the name that comes after -> is then resolved as a member of Bar < 1292016038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1292016041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[or did I get the names backwards?] < 1292016042 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they can < 1292016048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1292016077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The times I've written ELF headers in NASM, I've just done it with commented db/dw/dd lines. (Possibly because I haven't ever bothered with NASMs struct macros anyway.) < 1292016078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but*, as before, this is a pointer so *this always gets the default operator* (the one that takes a pointer type) < 1292016090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the utility of fake pointers is < 1292016103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(*this) however, could invoke an overloaded operator < 1292016112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1292016118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new[] could overflow couldn't it? < 1292016132 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, smart pointers and such things < 1292016136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the size of the object * the number of objects to allocate > SIZE_T_MAX < 1292016140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1292016150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As much as calloc, I would say. < 1292016152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that will be a compile time error < 1292016153 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're supposed to check for that < 1292016160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can also overload cast to void*. < 1292016177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, "you" as the programmer check for that size? Or "you" as compiler writer? < 1292016184 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a vaguely uneasy feeling his new[] overloads and calloc implementations don't check this < 1292016189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you overload other casts? Or add your own casts? < 1292016195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, wait, why do you use C++ ? < 1292016198 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one implementing new[] that is < 1292016211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's too big, return null or throw bad_alloc < 1292016226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, won't throwing an exception allocate memory btw? < 1292016233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hmm. Yes, you can. < 1292016242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator name_of_type() < 1292016243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, which is bad for OOM < 1292016248 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only if you heap-allocate the exception, I don't think you usually do that < 1292016254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stack-allocate it instead < 1292016264 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have never ever used exceptions in C++ < 1292016276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, won't that be invalid when the function returns? < 1292016284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, even if it returns by exception that is < 1292016295 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't return, it throws an exception, and then magic happens < 1292016320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you catch by value, it's even intuitively okay. < 1292016327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so... surely the stack frame must be cleared up, and then signal handlers could clobber it < 1292016339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think catching by reference is sort-of allowed too. < 1292016348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how this could possibly work < 1292016356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy to reserved area < 1292016359 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack frames, signal handlers, these things don't even exist in C++'s semantics afaik :) < 1292016361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, what about size of the thing < 1292016371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, stack frames must, at some level < 1292016379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and even plain C89 has signals iirc < 1292016381 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the language, maybe in the implementation :D < 1292016388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very abstract level. < 1292016404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, #include I presume works < 1292016408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh... < 1292016416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they realised this must be handled < 1292016433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuh, signals are a POSIXism. < 1292016442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they are in C99. I checked < 1292016442 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signals are too unixy to exist in C/C++ - for one Windows doesn't ever do signals < 1292016456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just SIGFPE and SIGABRT iirc < 1292016478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, they did add signals to C, didn't they. < 1292016485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they must exist in C++. < 1292016510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't have a copy of C89 so can't check it < 1292016520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if exception handlers don't allocate new stack space until after the exception object has died, it'll be fine... but I wonder what happens if you catch by reference and call some functions < 1292016521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just specify that signals during exception handling use a different stack or something. Or run the exception handler before the stack actually gets properly unwound, I'm sure that's doable (if messy) too. < 1292016522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1292016527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page of signal(2) says < 1292016530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89, C99, POSIX.1-2001. < 1292016534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conforming to < 1292016534 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1292016563 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it'll be fine as long as you don't unwind the stack until after you've run the exception handler(s) < 1292016594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't based on C99 < 1292016598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, they mustn't exist in C++ < 1292016601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is based on C89. < 1292016613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: based on, yes, but not as a standard < 1292016620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C++ spec doesn't go "this is a delta to C89 that defers to it" < 1292016623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, post increment operator needs to return previous value? < 1292016624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1292016628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't mention signals in the PDF, it's not part of C++ < 1292016633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: True, true. < 1292016638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's only POSIX. < 1292016647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just be called *AFTER* < 1292016664 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could say that signal "conforms to" C99 also if C99 doesn't include the signal function, as in saying any function you've written in pure C99 conforms to it < 1292016704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not proper overloading if you can't completely specify the return value to whatever. < 1292016705 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say: "conforms to? what does that EVEN MEAN?" < 1292016724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it isn't just syntax sugar then... It needs to act insane < 1292016743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just always returned the object it's called on, then you could only use postfix ++ for "postfixy" things. < 1292016759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can use it for any operation you want. < 1292016759 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not insane, it just needs to act as the normal postfix-increment operator or your users will go mad < 1292016761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, patently good idea! < 1292016767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, flexibility! < 1292016769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to only allow postfixy uses) < 1292016815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, "act insane" = "make a deep copy of the object to return, then modify the original one" < 1292016819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, is what I'm saying < 1292016893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just trusting their magical optimizing compilers to optimize away the copies. < 1292016937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be a good trick. I have a feeling this would entail solving the halting problem to handle for the general case. < 1292016965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure though) < 1292016987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would all make perfect sense to you if you were sufficiently damaged by C++ < 1292016995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it does to me) < 1292017012 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-44-210.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292017013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, why have you exposed yourself to so much C++ < 1292017018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, surely you must hate the language < 1292017031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is delete NULL; valid? < 1292017035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, free(NULL) is < 1292017039 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's a no-op < 1292017090 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hrm, literally "delete NULL;" might not be valid because delete on a void-pointer is undefined < 1292017157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I meant literally yes < 1292017248 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, written literally, it's a damned stupid thing to do and best removed by nothing or a better no-op :) < 1292017257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1292017262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like __asm__("nop") < 1292017265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1292017307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, actually tried it. error: type long int argument given to delete, expected pointer < 1292017312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I expected < 1292017325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete (void *)NULL; < 1292017326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that < 1292017346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tells me that delete of void* pointer is undefined < 1292017354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: delete (char *)NULL; < 1292017376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the void* thing was just a warning though < 1292017378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not an error < 1292017379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1292017380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- if the value of the oeprand of delete is the null pointer the operation has no effect." < 1292017384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that shouldn't be an error. < 1292017389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oeprand. < 1292017392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The void thing is prohibited, though. < 1292017392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that really in the spec? < 1292017402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm typing because the PDF-paste often messes things up. < 1292017402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That conventional space between char and * irritates my eyes < 1292017413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really because of the int* a, b; thing?? < 1292017413 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *but* doesn't the null pointer and void thing interact? < 1292017418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?\?/?/ < 1292017430 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes precedence - is deleting a null void-pointer a no-op or undefined? :) < 1292017446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's also because of declaration-mirrors-use. < 1292017450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int *a; < 1292017451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a = 3; < 1292017452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1292017457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not really, since the null-pointer thing was when the expression has a valid type. < 1292017462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it seems to have been optimised away at -O0 by gcc < 1292017464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird < 1292017478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O0 shouldn't do that < 1292017479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm. < 1292017491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only about deleting an incomplete class type. < 1292017500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't really work that well with C++'s reference types, which must die a horrible death < 1292017545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...what's wrong with them? < 1292017579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem a bit magical. Assign to them once, followed by a subsequent assign.. those assigns do two different things < 1292017593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initialization != assignment. < 1292017615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said < 1292017621 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said < 1292017625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what olsner said < 1292017629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said < 1292017633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said < 1292017651 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, what I said < 1292017709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1292017735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't see if the thing will be modified with references < 1292017743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without checking the declaration of the function < 1292017744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider: < 1292017746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i; < 1292017750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 4; < 1292017753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(i) < 1292017770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then consider: foo(int x) vs. foo(int &x) < 1292017804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# actually gets that right, it requires ref keyword both in function "prototype" and in the call to the function < 1292017833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hence C++ references needs to die. < 1292017910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s references were most assuredly a mistake. < 1292017930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from being totally redundant with pointers, they make function calls super-confusing since you can't tell what's what. < 1292017935 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you all know that :P < 1292017966 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I'm not so sure everyone knows that :P < 1292018016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know :D < 1292018029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not knowing C++ almost at all helps with that < 1292018047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I switch back and forth from C++ to JavaScript every day 8-D < 1292018054 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people think "but omg, references, like, optimization! and stuff!", but references are really exactly like pointers except *possibly* if something gets inlined (and then I believe references and pointers are just as optimizable anyway) < 1292018063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and your brain has not been completely fried yet? < 1292018083 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Have you seen pictures of me? < 1292018084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1292018107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who designed ELF, can I shoot them? < 1292018113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so freakin' complex X_X < 1292018113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i realized that after i spoke. ok, i retract my previous line. < 1292018171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HEY < 1292018177 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ELF is fucking AWESOME. < 1292018186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And why are you trapped in the land of ELFs? < 1292018196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elves < 1292018202 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ELFs < 1292018208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was probably led there by a GNOME < 1292018209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've decided that the only way my wimpy coreutils efforts can possibly compete with asmutils is to... , so yeah, I'm writing elf.inc right now with all the ELF header structures. < 1292018214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will define macros to assemble them manually :P < 1292018216 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ELVes then :D < 1292018221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But SHEESH there is a lot of crap here. < 1292018270 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-222-170.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292018300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ... explained nothing. < 1292018320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ld generates big executables. So I'm assembling in a custom ELF header. < 1292018327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which involves defining the ELF structures in nasm. < 1292018343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Big = almost 300 bytes when stripped!) < 1292018396 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1292018445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Explained? :P < 1292018454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should have been called GIANT then? < 1292018461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oerjan < 1292018467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an invisible swatter obvs < 1292018472 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-170.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292018474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For some definition of "explained" < 1292018494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHY ARE SECTION HEADERS SO HUGE < 1292018500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually plausible given that putty shows unknown unicode as space to me < 1292018549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although clog sees and reveals all. well almost all. < 1292018570 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1292018588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PornograFREE. < 1292018603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What. < 1292018606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porn wants to be free < 1292018629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is of course a corollary to porn being information < 1292018634 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1292018700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keys are information < 1292018720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information wants to pee < 1292018736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information wants to be Cree. < 1292018737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and according to rule 34/35, information is porn < 1292018773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leaked diplomatic cables are SO HOT < 1292018858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what's the correlation between that and its Kolmogorov complexity? < 1292018861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's rule 35 < 1292018891 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: over 9000 < 1292018915 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one about if there's no porn of it, it must be made (no exceptions) < 1292018935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1292018985 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the rule that makes sure rule #34 always applies even when it doesn't (didn't) < 1292018998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: the one about if there's no porn of it, it must be made (no exceptions) < 1292018999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true < 1292019005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not the statement of the rule < 1292019007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the statement is: < 1292019012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If porn of it does not exist, it will be made. < 1292019025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.: it's a platonic statement, not a mere order < 1292019055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO -- speaking theologically -- rule 34 has no exceptions, as it itself states, and rule 35 merely clarifies it < 1292019056 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're probably right. seems the end effect of either formulation is the same though < 1292019064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. It is just the way things tend to happen. Or, at least that is what I have heard. < 1292019072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, for everything, there IS porn of it, but it might not be on the internet, anyone's hard drive, or even in this universe < 1292019095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 35 is merely stating that, upon this being noticed, eventually, porn of it *will* enter this universe, after existing in mathematical platonic concept-space < 1292019105 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rule 34 always applies! but when it doesn't, rule 35 makes sure it applies anyway! :) < 1292019110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, there is porn of it, no exceptions; and if the porn cannot be found, it will be made < 1292019120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it is not a crude hack, it is an elegant clarification! < 1292019127 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a tautology with a plus menu < 1292019131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has nothing to do with mathematical platonic concept-space. Just some people like to make pornography of anything so that is why they do so. < 1292019132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1292019139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I pray for your soul. < 1292019147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one day you will see the light. < 1292019157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that I LIKE to make pornography of everything. < 1292019165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the Great Guiding Pervert forces me to. < 1292019184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to make pornography of anything, but some people do, so they can have freedom to do so. < 1292019212 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I expected zzo38 to be more of a pervert < 1292019315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Some people think some of my concepts are a bit perverted. However, it is not meant to be. < 1292019424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: MC! < 1292019428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you made porn of what now? < 1292019433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: isn't he asexual? pretty sure he's said he's asexual. < 1292019451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Colour porn. < 1292019458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by choice? :P < 1292019459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty, perverted colour porn -- interracial, non-matching colour porn. < 1292019461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people are the perversion, who thinks FurryScript has something to do with both pornography and Javascript, and gave a (completely stupid) example. In reality, FurryScript has nothing to do with pornography or with Javascript. < 1292019468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Gregor or zzo38? < 1292019470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you are about to close 123 tabs, do you want to save your session" <--- hell, no that will take forever to open < 1292019471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo < 1292019471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1292019476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Pretty sure he's said he's gay. by choice? :P < 1292019478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also explains the memory usage < 1292019507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Lesson: just don't go there. :p < 1292019508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, zzo38 is asexual, according to his WP user page. < 1292019518 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha, ok < 1292019534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: creepy, dude :P < 1292019565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "ZOMG YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE THAT THEY ADMIT OPENLY" is not a mature mode of conversation. < 1292019581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was referring more to the looking up his wikipedia page. < 1292019590 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the "not having sex" sense, it can certainly be by not-choice though < 1292019597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's not what asexual means < 1292019612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remembering information from it is not creepy either. < 1292019629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really, no, but that's the sense I used back there < 1292019656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia user pages are of course strictly private information. < 1292019661 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I say it, it means what I mean it to mean, or however that nice quote goes < 1292019683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleebquobble mcflooby screenflib. < 1292019693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: quite. < 1292019710 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just quibble that flibble-flobble < 1292019721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: PERVERT < 1292019806 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 123 tabs is seriously nothing to worry about < 1292019864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. This user likes to use redundant userboxes that are redundant. < 1292019930 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so you're not the zzo38 on wikipedia? < 1292019978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I am the same as the User:Zzo38 on the Wikipedia, that is my user page. < 1292020013 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks batshit insane < 1292020060 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know from here that you're not nearly as batshit insane as that looks < 1292020118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay, I *invented* Icoruma and FurryScript. If you are not perversioned, you might be able to guess the correct usage of FurryScript (or you might not, if you have no information) < 1292020121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you stalk my Wikipedia page some time back, or did I link it? < 1292020130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And I am a bit insane in some ways though, too. < 1292020131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember. < 1292020137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all ways. < 1292020138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, insane is good. < 1292020151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "This person does not understand Python (or understands it with considerable difficulties, or does not want to program in Python)." < 1292020154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are at war < 1292020182 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that statement applies to me too! < 1292020182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, this'll be entertaining. < 1292020185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it can be, depending on many things. But often the insane can do good things, and this is good things. < 1292020202 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the "does not want to program in Python" part < 1292020218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This user knows that 0.999... is exactly 1.]] — zzo38's WP page. < 1292020224 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow < 1292020228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in nonstandard analysis! < 1292020239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Actually since I put that there, I have programmed a few card games in Python, and have modified a drive wipe script written in Python. I don't ever write any of my own new programs in Python, though. < 1292020282 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1292020308 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suppose then you can use nonstandard analysis? In the standard way, though it is equal. In my opinion it is equal, but it might still be incorrect to use the equivalence sign there; the equal sign is OK there < 1292020358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This user can code in XUL" < 1292020363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to? < 1292020374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, saying "not in nonstandard analysis" is like saying "2+2 /= 4 in Z_4"; it's an axiomatic thing. < 1292020379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Vonkeror can do XUL, which would surprise me < 1292020415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is probably not a good reason except for making Mozilla based programs (Vonkeror is Mozilla based) < 1292020429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wasn't aware of that < 1292020457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, \lim_{x→\infty}1/x = 0 in standard analysis, but an infinitesimal in nonstandard analysis. < 1292020478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, sort of... < 1292020478 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What 2+2 makes is not axiom in TNT. < 1292020509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, but it is dependent upon the axioms of the system you're in. < 1292020529 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. I guess so. TNT is only for natural numbers, anyways. < 1292020558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, have you used a proof assistant in the past? < 1292020571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. < 1292020639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe later I will invent a computer program for proof assist if I would have a reason to do so. < 1292020639 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1292020706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, making a proof assistant yourself is an exercise in futility unless you have several years of free time and like writing long papers showing that your proof kernel is reliable. < 1292020767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have an intimate understanding of a particular flavour of logic and its implementation into a computational system. < 1292020858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how TNT works (described in Hofstadter's book), and how it could be generalized, and how you could also have macros and so on, so that would work. < 1292020962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT does not a good proof assistant make. < 1292020982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any good proof assistants other than Coq? < 1292020994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it can be possible to prove Fermat's Last Theorem in TNT by writing macros and so on. < 1292021052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, words fail me on that. < 1292021071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not be interactive, it would only execute the macros which you write and which can be checked according to the current state of the proving system, and so on, and then tell you which ones are valid, and then have a macro check if it is valid to make another proof. < 1292021075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's NIH and there's proving Fermat's Last Theorem on a self-written proof assistant. < 1292021154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq, the best, most mature proof assistant I know of, has a barely-understandable non-constructive implementation of the *reals*, let alone the vast towers of mathematics upon which that proof is based. < 1292021281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sgeo/randcolor-hex being broken < 1292021283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Coq prove Fermat's Last Theorem? < 1292021288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I still need to learn Coq < 1292021429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Coq prove the twin prime conjecture? < 1292021438 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1292021546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is again thinking about scientists inside GoL < 1292021618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. < 1292021633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, in the loosest sense. < 1292021659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. they are constructible within its logical framework from an appropriate set of axioms. < 1292021737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not the twin prime conjecture since we don't actually know if it's true or not. < 1292021833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ prove the four color theorem, though < 1292021872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm fermat's last theorem might not hold in Coq's logic < 1292021879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiles' proof wasn't exactly constructive < 1292021886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1292021888 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1292021932 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-32-65.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292021955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1292021957 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1292021977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly constructive...? < 1292021979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq... < 1292021988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1292022023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you constructively prove a universal statement? < 1292022154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Fermat's Last Theorem provable in Typographical Number Theory? < 1292022245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You mean forall x, y? < 1292022252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a function.. < 1292022259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point. < 1292022261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: erm fermat's last theorem might not hold in Coq's logic < 1292022262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wiles' proof wasn't exactly constructive < 1292022269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is, all we have to go on is wiles' proof < 1292022274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done in very non-constructive logic < 1292022288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't FALSE in constructivist logic, we know that thanks to wiles < 1292022290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might not be provable < 1292022406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know if it is possible in TNT? Even if you do not know if it is provable in Coq? < 1292022433 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1292022498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, depends entirely on the specific flavour of logic TNT uses. < 1292022570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TNT works entirely by typographical operations of replacing groups of symbols matching a template with other ones. < 1292022601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by combining and splitting previous theorems in some ways. < 1292022853 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋʝ̃ŋ] < 1292022878 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think [ʝ̃] is a sound in any language. :P < 1292022999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it defined in the IPA? < 1292023019 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's a nasalized voiced palatal fricative. < 1292023033 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "nasalized" and "voiced palatal fricative" are separate symbols; you just put the former over the latter. < 1292023054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1292023057 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should say ~ and ʝ are defined in the IPA but ʝ̃ is not. < 1292023204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the joys of making up stupid phonemes. < 1292023237 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1292023250 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a sound, not a phoneme. If it were a phoneme, it would be /ʝ̃/ instead of [ʝ̃]. :P < 1292023287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The sound written ‹r› in Mandarin has an odd history; for example, it has been borrowed into Japanese as both [z] and [n]. It seems likely that it was once a nasalized fricative, perhaps a palatal [ʝ̃]." < 1292023323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was, of course, just speculation. < 1292023347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *prod* < 1292023351 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Mandarin apparently doesn't have that sound now, or else it would say. < 1292023378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you must see the underground dock I built in MC. only thing remaining is adding some wooden piers + some pirate feel to it < 1292023382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smugglers maybe < 1292023390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smugglers is better < 1292023392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292023404 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a ramp going up to the ocean? < 1292023420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, it has a drop shaft and a boatlevator < 1292023428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, both in the middle of the ocean < 1292023436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, the boatlevator ends at the sea bottom < 1292023449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it does list some other nasalized fricatives (which to a Finnish speaker is a bit strange-sounding concept in the first place); "Some of the South Arabic languages have phonemic nasalized fricatives, such as /z̃/, which sounds something like a simultaneous [n] and [z]." < 1292023454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not that particular one, no. < 1292023468 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cool. < 1292023493 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a strange idea to me, too. I would be surprised if English had them. < 1292023645 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1292023738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 34 roulette < 1292023756 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Rule 34 roulette? < 1292023766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world's greatest idea. < 1292023778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how does it work? < 1292023782 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just roulette with different rules (one rule, in fact - rule 34) < 1292023828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is that rule? Is that the only number on the board? < 1292023844 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1292023898 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, the internet is full of numbers < 1292023965 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took a look at the Internet once and found that, while it had a lot of numbers in it, it also had a lot of pointers and mutexes. < 1292024025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does rule 34 work? < 1292024050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1292024248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot really write a proper syntax highlighter for TeX or for Forth, but METAFONT and FurryScript can be properly syntax coloring. < 1292024280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With Forth, it is possible, however, to prettyprint a program while it is executing.) < 1292024285 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FurryScript? What is this language whose name catches mine eye? < 1292024299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/ < 1292024351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have ideas for additional scripts, you can suggest and/or write them. (Sorry, no documentation yet. You can look at the files in the scripts/ directory for examples) < 1292024414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions so far? There probably is one, at least. < 1292024445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any documentation that isn't code? < 1292024462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I should learn to read < 1292024469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Unfortunately not. But we can work together to write some. < 1292024510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it TC? < 1292024567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I believe so. < 1292024592 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1292024609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am not completely sure. < 1292024760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1292024784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a language whose TC-ness is undeterminable. And as soon as I thought that, I start thinking that it's already been done < 1292024816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is one that is dependent on Goldbach conjecture < 1292025019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the files available in scripts/ is enough to understand most of the features of FurryScript so that you can write a code in FurryScript. < 1292025040 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that programming language where a program is a series of fractions? Is it called "Bag" or something? < 1292025050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: fractran; bag is iirc oerjan's extension of it < 1292025074 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I just realized that Fractran is equivalent to some other language, and then I realized that that other language is also equivalent to Fractran. < 1292025078 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MIND IS SO PROFOUND. < 1292025079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractornran < 1292025484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other programs with similar purpose to FurryScript exists, but as far as I know the other programs are weaker and not as clean.