00:00:23 (see, this sort of thing is what makes the multiple-ABI directory layout thing not a terrible idea!) 00:00:45 pikhq: /lib/{libc.a,crt*.o} is main libc; /lib/otherlibname/* is the other one. :p 00:01:42 elliott: Well, that actually does work for static linking... *shrug* 00:01:50 pikhq: (I suppose I don't want to build every lib twice, though, against a different libc...) 00:02:09 Only the libraries that'll actually work against dietlibc. 00:02:17 Which is *not* going to be universal. 00:02:33 Or even incredibly common. 00:03:02 pikhq: That's what makes me want to use uClibc. 00:03:13 pikhq: But man, nm -a a uClibc'd executable some time. Bloooooat. 00:32:25 elliott, down? 00:32:39 Perhaps. :P 00:32:39 elliott, the next torch is close to me, there is a chest a bit further along 00:32:50 Ah. 00:33:58 elliott, up 00:38:24 -!- Sasha2 has joined. 00:39:01 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:39:55 -!- augur has joined. 00:40:03 -!- Sasha has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:40:56 pikhq: ping 00:41:19 elliott: Gnip 00:41:36 elliott: I'm sad that live-action doesn't compress as well as animation. 00:41:54 pikhq: Clearly we should all become animated. 00:41:57 Clearly. 00:44:03 Why, I have to resort to 256 kbps to get tolerable 240p! 00:44:06 pikhq: Wait, how do typical C compilers know what start files to link? Do they just go by whatever's at /lib/crt1.o and the like? 00:44:16 i.e. filename based? 00:44:58 The path is builtin to the compiler. 00:45:09 pikhq: So, path-based. 00:45:10 GCC at least has the courtesy to stick it in the spec file. 00:45:26 pikhq: How would one go about making a typical (non-gcc) compiler assume it's statically compiling always? 00:45:28 i.e. implicit -static. 00:45:37 Uuuuh. I dunno. 00:45:44 Really easy to do with GCC, though. 00:45:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:46:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:47:40 pikhq: pcc, so it's probably not configurable without patching :P 00:48:20 * Copyright(C) Caldera International Inc. 2001-2002. All rights reserved. 00:48:25 pikhq: Gotta love any piece of code that starts with that. 00:48:32 * This file should be rewritten readable. 00:48:34 And then has that. 00:48:41 ... Whaaa? 00:48:47 pikhq: It's pcc. 00:48:51 pikhq: pcc has... a LOT of authors. 00:49:05 pikhq: Caldera happens to be one of them and they stuck that copyright there :P 00:49:28 pikhq: ...come to think of it thought, pcc wasn't being maintained then. Whut? 00:49:30 Well, yes. It's got a shaggy dog story about as crazy as your typical genetic UNIX. 00:49:40 if (strcmp(argv[i], "-static") == 0) { 00:49:40 Bstatic = 1; 00:50:02 #ifdef DYNLINKER 00:50:07 Nice, I can theoretically disable that :P 00:50:20 TODO: figure all that out. 00:50:26 pikhq: So, what's your vote for main libc. uClibc or dietlibc? 00:52:09 uClibc, I guess. 00:52:40 pikhq: Okay! The people have spoken, and they choose MEDIOCRITY! 00:53:58 XD 00:59:46 pikhq: The worst thing about all of this is the kernel configuration. 00:59:59 pikhq: It is *so hard* to know what you need to get stuff working, and no matter how much you disable it always seems to end up huge. 01:00:09 (At least starting from the stock kernel.) 01:04:20 Hmm. I didn't need to scale that Sintel trailer down to 240p; it turns out fine at 480p. 01:05:02 SD VIDEO STREAMING VIA ISDN. 01:11:10 pikhq: I eagerly await "NES live game streaming over telegraph" 01:12:04 elliott: XD 01:17:43 night 01:19:26 -!- Sasha2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:24:32 -!- Sasha has joined. 01:29:32 There should be a digital-composey-MIDI-ish-tracker-y thing with a decent interface. 01:30:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:45:41 Huh. Microsoft has started funding Hercules. 01:45:47 The IBM mainframe emulator. 01:45:58 Why? Beats me. 01:48:07 Newspeak makes me feel like I can contribute to it 01:48:13 I like that feeling 01:50:46 pikhq: If it runs on Windows and they suspect people will want it, that's customers. 01:54:05 Well, it does run on Windows. 01:59:54 Why is newspeaklanguage.org down? :(:( 02:07:22 Sgeo: You know what's a good language...? 02:07:24 Sgeo: newLISP. 02:11:20 I like dynamic scoping.. but dynamic scoping by default? 02:11:59 Sgeo: Hey, original LISP had it that way! 02:15:25 pikhq: More kitten work tomorrow; let's see if I can bootstrap a usable if bare system with X11 by Christmas. 02:15:26 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:24:20 elliot: Needs more cowbell. 02:24:40 Can someone please tell me WHY elliott is trying to push me from Newspeak? 02:25:31 Sgeo: Because all is koneko. 02:25:43 ??? 02:26:00 Kitten. 02:27:34 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:09 * pikhq is amused by how extensive the Japanese article on cats is. 02:35:29 -!- aloril has joined. 02:53:47 Sigh... IPv4 addresses are running out and the replacement is quite a Charlie Foxtrot... :-/ 02:54:45 Well, at least it has major "last mile" issues, and major routing issues. 03:03:06 last mile issues? 03:04:19 Both of them are not inherent faults in IPv6, but rather faults in meatware. 03:04:35 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 03:04:46 You fucking *idiots*, IPv4 is *basically over*. Get that through your fucking skulls. 03:06:14 Don't "get a transition plan in the coming years". Get a motherfucking time machine and be THROUGH YOUR TRANSITION as of last year. Or else you will HAVE NO INTERNET you fucking apes. 03:06:40 This has been cursing-filled rants from pikhq. 03:06:50 you fucking apes. 03:12:56 How bad can it be to live with not getting IP addresses for a few years? Hurt a few consumers, businesses, etc, not the end of the world, right/ 03:13:02 ? 03:18:39 Sgeo: Try "critically injure all businesses". 03:19:14 New ones? How often do current businesses need new IPs? 03:19:44 Uh, every time they get new computers that should be publicly accessible. 03:19:56 Imagine a world in which all Internet services cannot grow. 03:20:19 o.O 03:21:00 It's still temporary. Unless the economic impact causes irreversible damage to society or something 03:21:12 It's still pretty bad shit. 03:21:33 Because everyone is absolutely, positively *unprepared*. 03:21:53 This is going to sneak up and surprise everyone. 03:22:13 We should get the media involved somehow 03:22:20 "We can't add that new server." "Why not?" "The Internet is full." 03:23:19 I don't know if we could do something ourselves, or motivate the people tracking this sort of thing to speak to the media, but 03:23:41 Sgeo: The only way to get the media aware is for IANA to announce the end of allocations. 03:24:04 Which is when the shit hits the fan. 03:24:14 You don't think the media is interested in "In all liklihood, the Internet fills up around this time"? 03:24:55 I don't think you realise just how soon IPv4 depletion is. 03:25:19 Pessimistic estimates give us until March. 03:26:26 I'm sure the media would love to hear about it, at the very least. Put pressure on ISPs to start IPv6 adoption now, as opposed to waiting untii, say, March 03:26:27 Even if there was a gigantic push to switch to IPv6 rivaling the space race in effort, we couldn't switch in time. 03:26:37 pikhq, but surely, the sooner the better? 03:26:50 -!- augur has joined. 03:26:59 Less time of economic turmoil? 03:27:13 People still have their heads in the sand. 03:27:30 Again: The media might help fix that 03:27:43 The media? 03:28:05 Those morons are too focused on Justin Beiber to report on anything of merit. 03:29:00 I thought they love doom and gloom predictions... or make fun of them blah 03:29:34 They also have the intelligence of a gold fish. 03:29:52 Remember: Glenn Beck is taken seriously. 03:29:52 If IPv4 was a household object that can cause 1 in 6 billion people to die, then they'd care 03:30:00 Remember: Glenn Beck is taken seriously. 03:30:12 * Sgeo has never seen Glenn Beck 03:39:22 Take a completely crazy right-wing conspiracy theorist. 03:39:31 Now give him a radio program and a TV show. 03:39:35 That's Glenn Beck. 03:40:29 By "crazy" I don't mean "has some really bizarrely fascist opinions". I mean "is literally schizophrenic". 03:42:54 Why are people so ridiculously short-sighted w.r.t. what constitutes "life"? 03:43:33 The only reason we're even looking for carbon-rich planets is that we can't formulate a way that life could exist without carbon; this is almost assuredly because we're stupid, not because it's impossible. 03:44:05 So when we find something really exotic, we just expand our search from Space Earth to Space Almost-Earth. Yeehaw. 03:45:29 Gregor: To be fair, we're only searching for carbon-rich planets because it's literally the only selection criteria we have. 03:45:48 Aside from "happens to be sending us a treatise on classical mechanics". 03:45:55 Sadly, no planets meet *that* criteria. 03:46:15 Criterion. 03:46:57 Right now we're so limited, we should be more focused on "things we can get to" than "things that might have life by our narrow definition" 03:49:13 I note that the only planet that was "things that might have life by our narrow definition" so far is just a few light years away. 03:49:14 That is, it's "things we can get to" if you opt for a generation ship. 03:49:15 (which is, of course, the only way we're getting anywhere right now) 03:50:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:54:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:03:22 -!- augur has joined. 04:06:59 Pessimistic estimates of IANA depletion are *this year*. 04:09:18 And those "March" estimates are of optimistic category. 04:10:55 And one of those pessimistic (2010) estimates is by some (I don't recall which exactly) RIPE (the euro RIR) executive (who is expected to know this stuff pretty well)... 04:11:33 (but then, RIRs don't know much what each other is doing... Granted, there's NRO, but still...) 04:13:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:21:27 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:24:42 -!- augur has joined. 04:24:47 #esoteric: Home of those watching the IPv4 apocalypse helplessly 04:25:46 I got my Dinosaur Comics neckties! 8-D 04:26:18 #esoteric: Home of those who have not yet realized that humans have an impressive ability to adapt to imperfect situations, albeit reactively. 04:30:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 04:31:20 I think that's assuming that people actually got to IPv6 in a sensible way :/ 04:31:49 Oh, no it isn't 04:32:22 It incorrectly talks about TCP thugh 04:32:37 Er, wait no 04:33:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:42:33 If we couldn't respond sensibly to IPv4 depletion, despite having a perfect solution in hand for years 04:42:38 We knew the problem was solvable 04:42:47 What hope do we have for Global Warming? 04:42:51 * Sgeo depresses 05:02:55 -!- augur has joined. 05:03:11 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:14:45 Gregor: It's still depressing that humans only adapt in reaction to shit that's already *happened*, rather than being proäctive. 05:15:28 Oh, there are the "converging catastrophes" and Global Warming is just one of them... 05:15:43 pikhq: Hence "reactively" :P 05:15:59 (Pronounced "reek-tively") 05:16:47 And the worst is when predictors of disaster (that will later come to pass) are ridiculed for forecasting ridiculous things... 05:17:38 I'm genuinely surprised that we actually bothered to handle Y2K ahead of time. 05:18:09 And that took spelunking into some of the nastiest code bases out there. 05:20:07 Maybe the media helped a bit? =P 05:20:24 Perhaps because media took upon really drumming on it? 05:20:36 (Doom... Doom... Doom...) 05:21:21 Doom interests the media. I still want to get the media to pay attention to IPv4 depletion 05:22:12 Even if it doesn't help stop the crisis, at least the situation will be helped at least a little 05:22:29 It might go a bit faster, businesses might be more prepared to withstand it 05:24:43 IIRC, current growth rate of IPv6 is about 70% per year. Not enough, we need at least 700% per year to make it... :-) 05:25:42 Can we, #esoteric, speak to the media? 05:25:43 -!- Sgeo has left (?). 05:25:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:25:55 Or pressure some group into doing so? 05:27:41 Best case would be avoiding RIR depletions entierely (because of insufficient demand to deplete RIRs)... 05:28:17 But that's incredibly optimistic... 05:29:12 IANA would still be depleted (essentially nothing can stop that now). 05:30:58 Remember, APNIC could justify allocation at any momemnt. And they might have to in just couple weeks... 05:33:35 And now there's talk about RIR depletion estimates being too optimistic by several months... 05:34:27 You know what? 05:34:44 Soonish, I'm going to write something, ask #esoteric to proof it, then send it somewhere 05:36:10 It gets terrifying when the most pessimistic model is the reality... 05:37:04 Okay, lagerholm depletion model was the more pessimistic one... But now it seems hopelessly optimistic... 05:37:18 What can businesses do to prepare themselves? 06:28:28 -!- Goosey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:31:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:33:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:00:17 -!- perdito has changed nick to perdito|afk. 07:03:02 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:22:53 -!- wareya has joined. 07:25:09 -!- wareya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:50:41 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:54:46 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:16:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:19:47 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 08:20:19 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:49:51 -!- FireFly|n900 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:10:23 -!- FireFly|n900 has joined. 09:35:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:53:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: ilua). 10:13:09 -!- nopseudoidea has joined. 10:20:56 -!- evincar has joined. 10:21:03 Hey all. 10:21:28 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:24:58 -!- evincar has quit (Client Quit). 10:32:14 -!- FireFly|n900 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:32:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:33:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 10:33:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:33:39 /quit 10:33:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:38:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:38:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 10:39:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:39:43 æøå 10:40:54 !haskell "æ" 10:41:13 æ 10:42:29 -!- FireFly|n900 has joined. 10:42:32 i discovered that my locale setup that got irssi to work with utf8 last time actually works by having an illegal locale which is reset to C, so some more tweaking is needed :D 10:42:49 !help 10:42:50 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 10:42:55 !haskell "æ" 10:42:58 "\195\166" 10:43:31 Ã¦ 10:43:36 !haskell putStrLn "\195" 10:43:39 � 10:43:47 good, seems it's still working 11:00:17 -!- nopseudoidea has quit (Quit: Quitte). 11:02:46 -!- perdito|afk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:08:10 xkcd XD 11:17:00 oerjan, heh 11:20:29 oerjan, and I noticed the pirate theme of IWC is getting extremely absurd 11:20:34 more than average for iwc that is 11:24:26 today's square root of minus garfield is rather swedish 11:35:14 -!- perdito|afk has joined. 12:12:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:13:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:40:22 -!- perdito|afk has quit (Quit: perdito|afk). 12:40:42 -!- perdito|afk has joined. 12:47:40 time to buy minecraft 12:47:40 -!- FireFly|n900 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:49:10 I read that as Microsoft 12:49:14 Let's go buy Microsoft 12:53:00 why not 13:10:02 -!- FireFly|n900 has joined. 13:10:02 -!- nopseudoidea has joined. 13:10:02 -!- FireFly|n900 has quit (Changing host). 13:10:02 -!- FireFly|n900 has joined. 13:18:31 -!- perdito|afk has changed nick to perdito. 13:27:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:29:19 -!- Sasha2 has joined. 13:30:58 -!- Sasha has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:33:38 -!- elliott_ has joined. 13:33:53 Gregor: gcc just ate up your least favourite language. 13:38:28 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:46:43 Gregor, what's your least favourite language? 13:48:29 Presumably Go 13:50:50 -!- elliott_ has joined. 14:04:58 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 14:05:01 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 14:05:01 -!- elliott has joined. 14:11:52 -!- nopseudoidea has quit (Quit: Quitte). 14:18:30 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:INTERCAL#INTERCAL_is_not_Compiler_Language_With_No_Pronouncable_Acronym 14:20:55 ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ 14:20:55 ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| 14:20:55 \___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | 14:20:55 ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | 14:20:55 |____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| 14:21:44 wtf happened to the two first lines 14:22:20 oh duh the second line starts with / :D 14:23:28 do better next time 14:24:12 your second "O" in WHOOSH could be better too 14:24:17 ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ 14:24:17 / ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| 14:24:17 \___ \| | | | \ \ / /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | 14:24:17 ___) | |_| | \ V V / / | _ |/ ___ \| | 14:24:17 |____/ / \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| 14:24:24 GAH! 14:24:40 sed failure. oh missing the ^ :D 14:24:57 ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ 14:24:57 / ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| 14:24:57 \___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | 14:24:57 ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | 14:24:57 |____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| 14:25:29 you should have saved it for when it made sense to the conversation at hand 14:25:34 quintopia: it's just figlet generated 14:25:53 fix the figlet 14:27:57 the second O is just kerned with the S 14:28:27 yes 14:28:33 and it shouldn't be 14:28:38 because it makes it look bad 14:28:55 ____ ___ __ ___ _ _ _____ 14:28:55 / ___| / _ \ \ \ / / | | | / \|_ _| 14:28:55 \___ \| | | | \ \ /\ / /| |_| | / _ \ | | 14:28:55 ___) | |_| | \ V V / | _ |/ ___ \| | 14:28:55 |____/ \___/ \_/\_/ |_| |_/_/ \_\_| 14:29:47 i don't understand how i can read the sup-pixel message generator just fine, but i can't see the sub-pixels in your nick when you highlight me 14:31:09 because the subpixel message generator is ridiculously hyper-saturated on purpose... 14:31:10 duh 14:31:29 compare http://www.grc.com/image/cttech2.gif 14:31:45 ah yes 14:31:53 i can see the subpixels quite easily inn that message 14:32:18 say something in magenta 14:32:38 magenta delenda est 14:32:39 there's no colours in this channel. 14:32:52 oh right 14:33:06 but okay 14:33:07 -!- nopseudoidea has joined. 14:33:10 function feedthebear (enum[bear] whichone, enum[food] bearfood) 14:33:10 begin 14:33:10 bool fed;//if all goes well... 14:33:10 whichone[call] (); 14:33:10 try{ 14:33:11 whichone[eat] (bearfood); 14:33:13 throw (whichone[eat](armp));//armp is a global indicating 14:33:15 }//zookeeper's arm 14:33:17 14:33:19 return (fed=TRUE); 14:33:21 end; 14:33:23 (Am I part of the curse now too?) 14:33:35 what's a magenter? 14:34:18 zook the eeper 14:35:06 pikhq: please tell me why xorg is split into 3489573457839445 tarballs 14:35:42 i can see the subpixels a little bit in normal magenta text. i feel better. 14:37:02 aargh, not all of Magenta is on reocities 14:41:34 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 14:42:55 pikhq: Will you have me if I just package xorg as one gigantic package containing everything? 14:42:56 *hate 14:43:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:44:27 # Re-run the last command until a build succeeds. 14:44:30 that is so, so reassuring 14:45:45 "xserver ... requires ncurses" 14:46:54 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:59:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:43 -!- augur has joined. 15:04:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:09:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:09:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 15:09:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:15:04 Gregor: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1544,911,527&strip i made a terrible 15:15:05 hi ais523 15:15:43 Gregor: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1544,911,1252&strip t-rex imagines the upcoming discussion, badly 15:18:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:19:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:19:20 hi 15:19:35 ho 15:19:45 elliott: Because they decided to split it into multiple packages, and did it *far* too fine-grained. 15:20:04 pikhq: yeah and now i am discovering the joy of their build system 15:20:11 (seriously, a package for a *subdirectory* of headers‽) 15:20:20 pikhq: it depends on programs written in c++ 15:20:22 yaaaaaaay. 15:20:39 pikhq: anyway there's only going to be one single xorg package in Kitten because to hell with splitting this up 15:20:59 pikhq: but um this is kind of painful you should do the xorg package :P 15:21:18 oh no, it is disregard my cflags and -O2 instead of -Os, this is the sad 15:21:26 sad day 15:21:26 -!- sftp has joined. 15:21:31 and it may in fact be building git xorg instead of 7.5 15:21:33 which would be bad 15:24:12 elliott: Look at what Gentoo does for the xorg package for inspiration. 15:24:34 (should be fairly easy to grok; Portage runs on simple shell scripts.) 15:25:18 pikhq: So, um, I have a Dilemma. This patch: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128978361700898&w=2 is pretty much agreed by everyone to be on the order of, say, sliced bread in AWESOMENESS. There are videos showing before/afters where Linux is being compiled with -j64, 1080p video is playing, webpages are being scrolled and -- LIKE SOME KINDA MAGIC OS FROM THE FUTURE LIKE EVERY COMMERCIAL OS EVER -- everything just goes smoothly. (The before video 15:25:18 uh, less astonishing). Apparently -j128 is even more dramatic but makes for a bad demonstration because the "before" video is a static image of frozenness. 15:25:36 pikhq: BUT BUT BUT not only is this patch CFS-specific, but it uses cgroups! BFS explicitly does not have cgroups! 15:25:50 Thus a DILEMMA! Enhanced desktop performance OR-- enhanced desktop performance?? 15:25:54 ;____; 15:27:32 elliott: do you know what the patch does, specifically? 15:27:53 -!- sftp_ has joined. 15:27:58 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:27:58 ais523: it's summarised in http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128978361700898&w=2 15:28:04 it improves performance in the case where you run a lot of background processes in a terminal and do something interactive on the GUI or a different terminal 15:28:09 ais523: basically it automatically creates cgroups -- not very smartly at the moment, but -- 15:28:09 right 15:28:17 but "supposedly" it's going to be enhanced further 15:28:32 ais523: I suppose it does seem a bit niche, but -- I mean -- I do often get sluggishness when compiling stuff. 15:28:34 And that's rather irritating. 15:28:50 OTOH, it means using CFS, whereas BFS improves desktop performance in, like, every other case. 15:28:54 well, I compile at -j1 15:29:33 ais523: Mind you, I am going to be compiling stuff a *lot*, thanks to all the Kitten packages :) 15:29:42 But yeah, BFS is probably better overall. 15:29:59 hmm, according to Slashdot, there's now a mobile phone plan with a 21Mbps speed and a 5GB per month cap 15:30:12 conclusion: you can only use it for around half an hour per month 15:30:53 ha 15:31:09 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:31:13 pikhq: Does such a thing as NON-modular Xorg still exist? 15:31:41 elliott: Wayland! 15:31:42 * ais523 runs 15:32:08 elliott: Not any more. 15:32:22 ais523: I'm pretty sure the only way to get X running on Wayland is to use Xorg :P 15:32:25 or something 15:32:28 pikhq: ;_; 15:32:40 pikhq: How old is the last non-modular version? How long will I be able to use it before it rots to death? :P 15:32:41 * pikhq should get coffee 15:33:23 elliott: 5 years. 15:33:29 (X11R6.9) 15:33:41 pikhq: i think that is totally practical and i should use it, don't you totally agree??? 15:33:53 :P 15:34:04 elliott: How do you feel about autoconfiguration? 15:34:28 pikhq: well since I don't have udev or HAL I don't think I can have that anyway 15:34:36 driver support is a rather bigger issue :P 15:34:39 Mdev? 15:35:14 Anyways, it should have 2D acceleration about as good as right now. 15:35:40 annoying Firefox feature I just figured out how to turn off: sending what you typed to Google if it isn't a URL 15:35:54 pikhq: mdev is vaguely compelling, but it's still udev. But you know what? devfs is back in the kernel. Seriously. 15:36:10 pikhq: They snuck it in -- newly-implemented -- under the pretence of being a temporary devfs for initramfses before udev is started. 15:36:18 pikhq: It's called devtmpfs, it runs on a tmpfs, and it's fully-featured. 15:36:20 -!- Sasha has joined. 15:36:20 -!- sftp has joined. 15:36:36 -!- sftp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:36:45 -!- Sasha2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:21 -!- augur has joined. 15:37:53 pikhq: ...so yeah, I was pretty much just going to use that. 15:38:39 wrt mdev, there's also http://code.google.com/p/hotplug2/ 15:39:13 pikhq: All these things aren't very useful when you don't have modules in your kernel, of course. 15:39:30 So devfs is A Bad Thing? 15:39:55 Phantom_Hoover: No, devfs is A Good Thing. 15:40:10 Is udev A Bad Thing, then? 15:40:37 It had some implementation problems, and the kernel idiots decided that rather integrating a proposed new implementation, they should add pointless flexibility (you can make /dev/sda1 be called /dev/frobni1cator instead! USEFUL!) and move everything to userspace (because Linux is a microkernel amirite guyz?). 15:40:46 udev isn't necessarily terrible. It has some valid usecases. 15:40:48 But it's really overblown. 15:45:45 elliott: What was the 08:33 < elliott_> Gregor: gcc just ate up your least favourite language. 15:45:50 coppro: Go. 15:45:54 elliott: ate up? 15:45:55 coppro: gccgo is being merged into gcc. 15:46:00 elliott: oh 15:46:01 :( 15:46:14 coppro: Dude, it also has Fortran and Objective-C. 15:46:17 It's not exactly an endorsement. 15:46:19 And Ada. 15:46:29 And Java 15:46:32 And C++ 15:46:33 And C :P 15:46:59 Anyway Go is a perfectly competent language in a certain niche that EVERYONE IS DETERMINED TO PRETEND IT DOES NOT EXIST IN. 15:47:05 And with rather bad marketing materials. 15:47:36 Nobody uses gccgo anyway, the Plan 9-style compilers are far better :P 15:47:37 elliott: what's this about a niche? 15:47:59 coppro: systems server programming. nothing else. 15:48:06 more or less 15:51:04 elliott: *Issue 9 15:51:16 ais523: no, that issue was the stupidest thing ever 15:51:33 indeed 15:51:45 can't you call it Issue 9 just because the name "Go" is stupid. though? 15:51:48 s/./,/ 15:51:57 umm, s/,/c/ 15:52:00 s/\./,/ 15:52:00 ais523: (1) yes, you can totally own the name "go", that's not one of the most common words ever; (2) your language is called "Go!" on all your publications, with an exclamation mark, so you can't even claim identicality 15:52:13 (3) lol internet bandwagon "because it was done in google 20% time it's google's projects now let's lynch evil google" 15:52:16 elliott: I don't think there was trademark infringement 15:52:26 ais523: how's the name Go stupid, it's just... not an interesting name 15:52:43 too easily confused with the typical word without context 15:52:47 -!- Gregor has set topic: WE ARE SOMEWHAT SPARTA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 15:53:22 ais523: Even WITH context; it's too general of a word. 15:54:06 Gregor: isn't it THIS IS SOMEWHAT SPARTA 15:54:06 s/go/face/ 15:54:18 s/word/face/ 15:54:23 Your face is way too general. 15:54:41 elliott: Yes, but WE are somewhat sparta. 15:54:50 elliott: Also, no. 15:54:52 Your face is somewhat sparta. 15:54:54 elliott: It's "I AM SOMEWHAT SPARTA" 15:55:02 Ah. 15:57:01 pikhq: ouch, i just realised something about busybox 15:57:19 Somebody needs to invent descenders; like suspenders, but worn under your pants and keeps your shirt perfectly tucked. 15:57:40 No they don't. 15:59:00 Gregor: I love that concept 15:59:59 I'm not QUITE sure how they'd work just yet, but suffice it to say I'm tired of having to resort to the Picard Maneuver :P 16:00:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:00:45 Picard... Maneuver. 16:01:20 elliott: ? 16:01:35 I'm not QUITE sure how they'd work just yet, but suffice it to say I'm tired of having to resort to the Picard Maneuver :P 16:02:57 But, yeah, udev's only failing is that it's a bit overkill. 16:03:14 Which compared to some of the other odd shit done with /dev, makes it genuinely nice. :P 16:03:41 (devfs's organization scheme is, well, WTF.) 16:04:14 pikhq: Yeah, but fuck them for not accepting mini-devfs before udev came along. 16:04:20 elliott: In TNG, Patrick Stewart adjusted his shirt whenever he stood up; that adjusting is the Picard Maneuver :P 16:04:45 Gregor: So is http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver the spaceship analogue to adjusting your shirt? 16:04:49 Say yes. 16:04:54 elliott: Let's go with yes. 16:04:58 And oh god why hasn't Memory Alpha switched from Wikia. 16:05:01 very fast adjustment 16:05:01 elliott: However, that name is actually just the source of the JOKE :P 16:05:07 Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. 16:05:13 Gregor: THERE IS NO JOKE ONLY FACTUALS 16:05:24 "However, because the release of Star Trek took place nearly simultaneously across the world, the community has taken the decision to lock the English edition of Memory Alpha to editing from 2000 UTC on May 6th until 0400 UTC on May 9th, in order to allow the users of Memory Alpha time to see the film without having to worry about being spoiled before it was (technically) released." 16:06:30 This is why TOS sucked: "...that the original version of the script for Star Trek: The Next Generation's "Conspiracy" did not feature alien parasites? The 'conspiracy' in question was simply a military coup within Starfleet, but Gene Roddenberry vehemently opposed such an idea, since he believed Starfleet would never stoop to such methods; thus the alien angle was introduced at his insistence." 16:06:45 STARFLEET IS A PARAGON OF PERFECT EXCELLENCY IN OUR FUTURE UTOPIA WHERE NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG EVER 16:07:33 pikhq: Some parts of BusyBox require suid, like su, passwd, ping, traceroute. Apparently you're meant to make BUSYBOX ITSELF suid. That includes "ls" and "mv". 16:07:40 It says it drops permissions if it doesn't need them, but uh....... 16:08:04