< 1290988853 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290989052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's REDPROGRAM < 1290989140 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-191-128.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290989140 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1290989140 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1290989155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One and one still is one < 1290989163 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290989303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can i just say that sevenfold.mid is the best thing ever < 1290989356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: REDPROGRAM is a function taking two parameters, one is the index number to a FlooP program and the other is its parameter. An ordering is applied to FlooP programs (a turing-complete programming language). < 1290989417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/dpGbh.png MY EYES < 1290989422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each program takes one natural number as input and its output is one natural number. That is the GREENPROGRAM command. Remove all programs from the list that do not halt for all values of input, and then make the numbering consecutive again, that is REDPROGRAM. < 1290989457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, linky? < 1290989463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now do you understand what REDPROGRAM is? < 1290989466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/sevenfold.mid. it gets better < 1290989468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, thanks < 1290989512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my browser is being a bitch < 1290989517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wget < 1290989561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that Clojure? < 1290989567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1290989570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the screenshot < 1290989570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1290989573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ow my eys < 1290989574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyes < 1290989580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ow your eyes? < 1290989633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the colours < 1290989634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1290989641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to a data: URI rather than bothering with wget
< 1290989656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, my browser just downloads the file anyway, so nevermind < 1290989752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow, my ears < 1290989758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loser < 1290989759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it gets better < 1290989765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo goes to a data: URI rather than bothering with wget <-- what? < 1290989770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh with a link < 1290989827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were maybe a few seconds of pleasant sound < 1290989838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck < 1290989858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are good parts < 1290989863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then EAR HORROR < 1290989865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another good part < 1290989867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EAR HORROR < 1290989905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your ears are broken < 1290989906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all great < 1290989933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is oklopol's answer to my singing < 1290989967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your singing is terrible. < 1290989970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sevenfold is amazing. < 1290989997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/etudes/All-as-midi.rar then :P < 1290990026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290990842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you develop @ for me please thanks bye < 1290990890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or at least half of it < 1290990991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a DVI driver to control a old-fashion printing press? < 1290991430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, where did ais523 go < 1290991678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would love to develop @
< 1290991692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I don't even have an idea of what it's supposed to be like < 1290991694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Doesn't DVI have font embedding and such? If so, no. < 1290991701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you ever coded actual haskell < 1290991703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, it doesn't < 1290991706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: one of it's many flaws < 1290991710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "actual"? < 1290991717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a BF interpreter once < 1290991719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as in not just a goldilock's joke < 1290991720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DVI has no font embedding. < 1290991726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything is aid, fix the grammar and all < 1290991727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i said < 1290991820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you ever coded in any non-haskell functional language < 1290991836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1290991841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1290991851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about Erlang a while ago, but never coded in it < 1290991855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is possible to include fonts in separate files, but you should compile the fonts separately for each printer because they have different resolutions and so on. < 1290991887 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One font format is GF format; you can see my program GF-Magick for an example of parsing GF files. < 1290991907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what language is @ in? < 1290991931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (new) < 1290991939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun! < 1290991946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is in @ < 1290991952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is heavy in type theory. < 1290991979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, hm < 1290991982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1290991985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_type_theory. except it's not quite like that. but that's basically a prerequisite to being able to understand any of this. < 1290992043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also good to have an understanding of: type systems, specialisers, FRP, HCI, x86-64 < 1290992068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I'll stay away then < 1290992075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to learn all that stuff though < 1290992095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that hard, dunno why i said type systems there since that S type theory < 1290992108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type theory is just functional programming one level higher. and a bit of logic. < 1290992114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specialisers are not complicated at all, just hard to implement < 1290992118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP is simpler than imperative IO < 1290992124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HCI is not really necessary to know < 1290992129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" whose result type may vary on their input" < 1290992136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 is just some wiki pages to understand. < 1290992164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could have division that's Integer if the result is an integer, Double if the result isn't? < 1290992175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I totally misunderstanding? < 1290992176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um. sort of. doing that would get you a slap and i'd never talk to you again. < 1290992183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's all compile-time < 1290992186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1290992188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typecheck time < 1290992190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as < 1290992193 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290992193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorem verification time < 1290992208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what does the result type vary on? < 1290992234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The types of the input? That doesn't make much sense < 1290992260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more sense than the division thing, ad < 1290992263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION confuses
< 1290992327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the functional type (A -> B) is replaced by a type (x:A) -> B, where B can include mention of x. < 1290992328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all. < 1290992344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, types become values in the value language, too, so you can do "foo = Integer" < 1290992357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x:A) -> B) happens to be the same as (forall x in A : B) in intuitionistic logic. < 1290992360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no data Hey = Hey | What < 1290992363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the theorems < 1290992365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: who said that < 1290992379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me, seeing a consequence of what you just said... or not < 1290992379 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290992379 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290992393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how is that a consequence < 1290992418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = Hey is foo of type Hey or whatever type can hold types? < 1290992423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two different Heys < 1290992445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1290992456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Coq one would call the constructors "hey" and "what" instead, the uppercase constructor names make little sense < 1290992458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a language. < 1290992522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn Coq, that's the easiest way to learn most of htis stuff. < 1290992523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this < 1290992541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1290992542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1290992567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost reluctant to learn a non-general-purposeish language < 1290992571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1290992583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because if I can't imagine it ruling the world one day... < 1290992591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll force myself < 1290992596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq is sort of general purpose < 1290992606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, you care way too much about ego, status, authority, popularity. < 1290992617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I object to "authority"! < 1290992627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed you do. < 1290992667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I care about popularity not in "It's only worthwhile if it's popular" but as in "This is an awesome language. It deserves to be more popular" < 1290992689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: mhm. yet you went on about debian not being "usable" < 1290992692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i have to leave. < 1290992697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1290992712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/ is an online book on coq. < 1290992724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just google anything you don't understand < 1290992735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the best book on coq since it's meant for a specific use of it, but it's close enough < 1290992745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1290992746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1290992761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why would elliott link me to something that's not the best book? < 1290992777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries it anyway
< 1290992788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always love multiple viewpoints and tutorials < 1290993170 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290993196 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest67632 < 1290993482 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290993582 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290993637 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1290993791 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290993926 0 :Guest67632!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :quintopia < 1290994025 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290994683 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290994768 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290996935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1290997025 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-207-250.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290997399 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1290997680 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290998164 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290998169 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/computational_linguists.png < 1290998176 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that guy :D < 1290998206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1290998259 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1290998423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, a number of people here dislike XKCD < 1290998427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not one of them, but < 1290998554 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dislike.... < 1290998555 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1290998580 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How sad < 1290999294 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-118-64.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1290999813 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-221-137.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290999910 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291000295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you haven't done anything that awesome recently, why is that? < 1291000387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time I did anything awesome? < 1291000545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I have two papers submitted for review, one coming up to be submitted for review in a month, and one Super-Sekrit™ project I can't tell you about. Also there's http://js.codu.org/ and WebSplat. < 1291000589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the Super-Sekrit project ever cease to be Super-Sekrit? < 1291000610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Iff the first of the papers submitted for review is accepted. < 1291000626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Is it larger than a breadbox? < 1291000635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more abstract than a breadbox. < 1291000710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, it's not larger than a breadbox, smaller than a breadbox, the same size as a breadbox, or a breadbox. < 1291000716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be an anti-breadbox. < 1291000728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: can i just say that sevenfold.mid is the best thing ever" <<< at this gathering, i actually tried to make something as horrible as possible, but failed because it turned out awesome < 1291000744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I compared it with my singing < 1291000751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there were good parts < 1291000766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to sevenfold.mid, not my singing) < 1291000866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" When was the last time I did anything awesome?" <<< i don't remember < 1291000895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well those are all somewhat awesome things, but what have you done for ME? < 1291000910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were the papers about, or were they so stupid you don't wanna tell? < 1291000916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: All that porn I scp you on a crontab every night :P < 1291000952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you set that up ages ago, spending a couple hours a day to search that stuff manually is just part of that awesomeness of the past. < 1291000965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And the papers are being anonymously reviewed, so I shouldn't mention them in a publicly-logged channel. < 1291000971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291000976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that matter I shouldn't make jokes about producing tons of porn every night, but *eh* < 1291000985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so topic? < 1291001000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL :P < 1291001006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1291001013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS < 1291001052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your singing was interesting to listen to < 1291001068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The paper submitted to PLDI is about programming language design and/or implementation, and the paper submitted to S&P is about security and/or privacy. < 1291001075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually know how to sing, that was impressive, at least < 1291001097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1291001114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to reading everything you ever publish < 1291001170 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Have you read the 2.5 papers I've already published? :P < 1291001171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to do that with everyone i know even a little bit, i make the exception of professors with more than 200 publications tho < 1291001178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1291001193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually i should read oerjan's phd at some point < 1291001194 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEN THAT IS WHY YOU WILL FAIL. < 1291001216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know i'll life for quite a while after you're gone so i'm not in a hurry < 1291001221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*live < 1291001246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: But I'm already an eternal energy being no the Higher Level. < 1291001248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on the < 1291001293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i didn't even realize the 0.5, what could that possibly mean? < 1291001309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a workshop paper, plus it's subsumed into a later conference paper. < 1291001314 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, y'know, half a publication. < 1291001337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was your current degree and age? < 1291001353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bachelors+masters-equivalent and 24 < 1291001367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1291001490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's dynamic behavior? :) < 1291001507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i can guess < 1291001544 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291001596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: By example: If I go running around my apartment naked at 2AM while screaming communist propaganda, that would be dynamic behavior. < 1291001706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i get it < 1291001785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just take that example, abstract away me and the apartment, and consider it in the context of JavaScript. < 1291001795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm trying! < 1291001819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like just... what happens when a program is run? :P < 1291001834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was 2am / communist propaganda also meaninful < 1291001849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are both relevant. < 1291001873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2am would probably just be what happens when, but communist propaganda... < 1291001912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hints? < 1291001952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll just have to read the paper. < 1291001964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291001976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can't wait < 1291001994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't wait ... to read the paper that's already published? < 1291002003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i can't read it now < 1291002010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i should be reading ergodic theory < 1291002016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know? I have once written a program similar to WEB, but it was GWBASIC instead of Pascal, and ESC/P instead of TeX; there were a few other differences as well. I no longer have that program. < 1291002030 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291002257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did read the abstract, and i have to say it sounds pretty mundane, compared to all my... wait nm < 1291003352 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291003412 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291003986 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1291005097 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291005319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter made many kinds of wordplays working together. The Dialogue titled "Contracrostipunctus", the lines alternate between Achilles and the Tortoise, but the first letter or punctuation in each line spells out "Hofstadter's Contracrostipunctus Acrostically Backwards Spells J.s.bach" < 1291005344 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All letters are actually capitalized; I put the capitalized letters corresponding to the ones typed in a larger font in the book.) < 1291005437 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the unlikely event that a dialogician should write a contrapuntal acrostic in homage to J. S. Bach, do you suppose it would be more proper for him to acrostically embed his own name-- or that of Bach?" The answer is, embed both names. < 1291005749 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291005812 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291005820 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for memfuck < 1291005891 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] can be a while, if, and other types of flow directors based on the second value in the current cell's stack. < 1291006010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: You can then add that idea to the article? < 1291006016 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1291006023 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reformatting it too < 1291006031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1291006035 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll start on an interpreter some time this week < 1291006103 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1291006240 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I should do it with a value < 1291006246 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the cell stack < 1291006257 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should have some sort of flags that can be set :/ < 1291006321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it in any way you prefer to design it; in esoteric programming it does not matter that much. < 1291006328 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :D < 1291006428 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, new commands for definable flow directors < 1291006432 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1291006438 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gonna make these ones more complex < 1291006440 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291006486 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you going to write the interpreter with? Java? Forth? C? Enhanced CWEB? Or maybe even with other esolangs? < 1291006503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English? < 1291006508 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C probably < 1291006513 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe haskell < 1291006536 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably C < 1291006548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter too much, because you can write it using what you want to write it with. And then possibly someone else can write another interpreter (which is also sometimes done with esolang). < 1291006726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like to use Enhanced CWEB to write programs (which should work with any C compiler supporting #line) < 1291006732 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1291006739 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its amazing how much more crazy it got < 1291006790 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have it check the memory stack < 1291006846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: You can design memfuck to be the amount of crazy you prefer. There are many different esolangs, including some which are not computable, even. < 1291006860 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291007020 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently +[+++\++>\+] will leave 4 in [0], 2 in [1], 1 in [M]. the ] will be discounted while [M] contains 1. < 1291007059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just see which way works best for you according to whatever goals you want, such as turing-complete, and so on. < 1291007064 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch, it should be +\[ < 1291007094 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I'm getting more confused than in brainfuck xD < 1291007318 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176440744.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291008215 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291008361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is the longest day of the year, when we have to switch off daylight saving time? < 1291008476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say something about amount of daylight varying by much more than 1 hour in norway, then i realized that's not what you meant < 1291008523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're presumably right < 1291008549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DST is such bullshit. < 1291008565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention *completely and utterly backwards* even for its intended goals. < 1291008572 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit < 1291008579 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost confused the hell out of myself xD < 1291008596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wanted to give people more suntime in the evening, it should be DST during the *winter*, not the summer. < 1291008602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of sun to go around in the summer! < 1291008640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, even then it'd be pretty stupid. < 1291008666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite understand it myself < 1291008673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am led to believe it has a rationale < 1291008673 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1291008678 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who edited my text D: < 1291008717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: An ignorant one, based around the idea that it's better to have more suntime in the evening during the summer. < 1291008721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think how well it works depends on both work hours and latitude. at least in norway the difference is quite noticable when we change. < 1291008813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd expect it to make most difference around the time it changes (spring and autumn). as you imply in the winter it's dark anyhow, and in the summer light. < 1291008822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here. < 1291008892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine the effects would be a bit more noticable depending on how far off from solar time your de jure time zone is. < 1291008909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the time is _not_ really adapted to latitude, afaik both the usa and europe change at a common day (different between them though) < 1291008925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I need to find papers on it < 1291008940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought it was rooted out of agricultural tradition? < 1291008946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(poor bastards in western China, living in ideal UTC+5 but de jure UTC+8) < 1291008960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, it was invented in 1895. < 1291008980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall some of the rationale had to do with energy saving. and also that agriculture is utterly irrelevant because farmers have to follow actual daylight regardless < 1291008998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's actually contrary to agricultural tradition — the chickens and cows don't care what time it is, they care when the sun rises. < 1291009009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like daylight saving time at all, either. < 1291009044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do recall energy saving stuff < 1291009058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's been shown to be a negligible electric saving nowadays. < 1291009146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if DST does save energy, I think DST is not the correct way to do it. The way I think it should be done, is, whatever time is sunrise is called the first hour of the day, which might be eight o'clock on one day and nine o'clock on another day, and so on. < 1291009178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I really hate having sunset at 21:00. < 1291009204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: except our clocks would need a redesign for that < 1291009214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sundial. < 1291009216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1291009235 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Memfuck < 1291009241 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far so good :D < 1291009273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not saying it would be impossible, just that we'd have to change clocks to something that adapts to time of year (and latitude too) < 1291009296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably easy with an electronic clock < 1291009308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately, we could just make time sane. < 1291009314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, no need to change the clock. < 1291009322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No DST. < 1291009345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time zones are an integer UTC offset, derived from which meridian you're closest to. < 1291009346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the idea I said, you would still have eight o'clock and nine o'clock and everything else like you have now. However, there would also be a secondary measurement of time that starts at sunrise each day. < 1291009348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1291009352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sane civil time. < 1291009399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't we just use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time < 1291009413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no more fucking UTC+9.5 < 1291009422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um it would be wholly impractical in a modern day if people didn't have clocks that could keep track of it. as well as that it would be impractical to keep track of two different measurements, although i think some religious people (monks, maybe jews?) do that anyway. < 1291009449 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291009470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can say "half past seven" and "the first hour of the day" and so on. < 1291009485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the international date line is to be on the 180° meridian. Period. < 1291009499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are there any banks on the date line? < 1291009512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Hmm? < 1291009516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so ignoring political boundaries? yeah that sounds _really_ practical >:D < 1291009536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, ignore political boundaries entirely! < 1291009565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If we don't, we get insanity like de jure UTC+8 in UTC+5! < 1291009582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think only china is _quite_ that extreme, no? < 1291009603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. But there's a lot of places with silly time zones regardless. < 1291009637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, Russia's UTC+8, UTC+9, UTC+10, and UTC+11 do not contain the meridians for each. < 1291009641 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea different notations. For twelve-hour clocks, use roman numerals as in "IV::30" and for twenty-four-hour clocks, use digits as in "16:30" and for time counted from sunrise, use notations such as "1st /" and "3rd 1/4" and so on. < 1291009648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure it's actually a problem in china, they could still have slightly different work hours in different parts of the country if they wanted, in fact it's only a one-time adjustment unlike DST... < 1291009649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nor does their UTC+4. < 1291009665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What if the divide runs directly through a city? < 1291009674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming without evidence that they would be sane about that, though < 1291009674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Fuck 'em. < 1291009679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :P < 1291009739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you like seconds? i always thought they were WAY too short < 1291009748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "1st /" means the start of the first hour of the day, and "3rd 1/4" means one quarter hour after the beginning of the third hour of the day.) < 1291009777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Whether or not you use seconds depends what you are doing. I do like to use clocks with the second hand. < 1291009783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i read recently that turkey is planning to change to a +1/2 time zone. on the bright side they would simultaneously abolish DST. < 1291009805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and the US's UTC-9 doesn't have the UTC-9 meridian either. Though it does have the UTC-10 and UTC-11 meridians. < 1291009845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my three kind of notations? Do you have other opininions of differences you think of? < 1291009848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And US UTC-10 has the UTC-10, UTC-11, UTC-12/UTC+12 meridians. < 1291009917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: minutes are way too long for the "short tick" < 1291009934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a second is somewhat around the length of a heartbeat i think, isn't that nice? < 1291009962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think so. I think you can use seconds as well if you need it. < 1291009963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1291010011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, that's nice. < 1291010025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The double colon is delibate.) < 1291010037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/delibate/deliberate/ < 1291010062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to end this deberate now, since my bus leaves in 15 min < 1291010091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's this one application of the martingale convergence theorem which i didn't really get, but the lecturer thought was really cool and sexy :( < 1291010121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought oklopol was saying the lecturer was really cool and sexy
< 1291010138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could indeed be distracting < 1291010143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure he's either < 1291010174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1291010182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do fractional time zones exist? < 1291010220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because somebody hates libc developers. < 1291010223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theorem: stationary measure on shift space, then -1/n * p(x_0, ..., x_(n-1)) ---> entropy almost everywhere < 1291010233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*p stationary measure < 1291010255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if p is just a product measure, then you can apply birkhoff directly < 1291010266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, indeed, sanity. < 1291010276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because obviously < 1291010282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes he knew that theorem at one time
< 1291010301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the general case, you will have something of the birkhoff form, but the function slightly changes each time n increases < 1291010310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turns out it's a martingale < 1291010319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what is? well erm) < 1291010322 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractional timezone exist because the sun and Earth is exist, and there is many more countries in the world. < 1291010335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The +x.75 ones are the most cruel. < 1291010355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: good point! :D < 1291010356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there were ones with crazier offsets in the past. < 1291010366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, UTC+4:51 once existed. < 1291010405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As did UTC-0:44... < 1291010407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: martingale convergence is just that if you have an increasing sequence of sigma algebras converging to S, and you integrate a function on each of those algebras, the integrals converge to the integral of f over S < 1291010452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i certainly used to know that :) in fact i think i've mentioned it in one of our discussions. < 1291010487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :birkhoff is, as you probably know, in the most useful case, that we can define the time average function f* for each f, which simply takes the orbit of a point and averages f(T^j x)'s, and it turns out it has all kinds of fun properties and is shift invariant ofc < 1291010493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*T-invariant < 1291010499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you (mathematically) grow up so fast :( < 1291010513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1291010519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how I can make a code in Gforth doing something in between each line of the source file? < 1291010521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i don't actually understand any of this, i just memorize a bunch of shit < 1291010531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1AM, I have to be up at 7AM, and I have a play I was supposed to read over the break that I didn't < 1291010562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory of birkhoff is exceedingly vague < 1291010577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the martingale theorem is pretty easy to prove, birkhoff on the other hand takes quite a lot of paper < 1291010578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291010586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll rant about it later today < 1291010589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to go -> < 1291010591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1291010624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's hard being the pope i guess < 1291010653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should RTFR < 1291010677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not before I RTFP though < 1291010777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found it, I found the LINE-END-HOOK < 1291010821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, already up? < 1291010830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawsn
< 1291010833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawns* < 1291010841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1291010857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not like you :P < 1291010894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an appointment today, so i had to make an effort to wake up at an approximately normal time < 1291010935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that _does_ happen occasionally purely by chance < 1291010960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so does everything with an element of randomness < 1291010974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1291011047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean, if you cat /dev/random, sooner or later you will get the complete works of Shakespeare < 1291011105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you manage to avoid the heat death of the universe < 1291011124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1291011203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, < 1291011205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep "To be" /dev/urandom < 1291011209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary file /dev/urandom matches < 1291011216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this took about a minute) < 1291011272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELPU MIN < 1291011280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291011293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway getting the set of letters in those same works should be way quicker < 1291011314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, if you had a library of all possible text files arranged alphabetically, _finding_ anything interesting in it would be as hard as inventing it yourself < 1291011352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text files of a certain length < 1291011374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah true < 1291011386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and catting /dev/random is even worse, since you cannot even do binary search < 1291011437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a library of all text files that contain only grammatical, sensical statements? < 1291011442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the work "b" would be infinitely far away unless you sort by length first < 1291011454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, since every work starting with a would come before that < 1291011461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there would be infinitely many < 1291011474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unless "sensical" involves a good AI you would still have to do the main part of the work yourself < 1291011487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does sensical mean here? < 1291011505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to avoid "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" I think < 1291011509 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this spell checker doesn't accept "sensical" < 1291011519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to nonsensical < 1291011522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also if only single statements were sensical it would still be hard to find a coherent whole < 1291011531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you know that there *are* works like that right? < 1291011553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1291011556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(university) < 1291011582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i corrected to "of a certain length", also i was sort of assuming travel time wasn't an issue < 1291011681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i tried to think of a sensical meaning for that sentence once, my interpretation was of a particular boring politician from an environmental party falling asleep in parliament < 1291011704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring and bored, presumably < 1291011717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why was he sleeping furiously? < 1291011721 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291011728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably he was very tired < 1291011749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably snoring loudly < 1291011757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute < 1291011798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having bad dreams maybe < 1291011850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to be coherent tomorrow. Fortunatly, my plans for this week don't consider tomorrow to be particularly significant < 1291012630 0 :occamsrzr!~brandon.f@user-0cdvp8t.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291013220 0 :occamsrzr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291013300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, need to put the compter down now < 1291013348 0 :occamsrzr!~brandon.f@user-0cdvp8t.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291013355 0 :occamsrzr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291013357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suddenly occurs to me that I will have plenty of time on my way to school to read < 1291013378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long commute? < 1291013432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1291013448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even when I arrive, there's still about an hour before my first class < 1291013459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my first class is Perl, so I'll have some time then < 1291013467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Class right after that is the one < 1291013536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procrastinate early, procrastinate often < 1291013557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even procrastinating sleep! < 1291013661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found a poem googling that http://theblogofjen.blogspot.com/2005/12/you-and-me-and-monkey-makes-three-dont.html
< 1291013672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was in fact the _only_ hit < 1291013735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When my mom used to sing to me before I went to bed, there was one song that I'd try to delay < 1291013743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I had more time before I had to go to sleep < 1291013754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is weird to be talking about < 1291013838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a weird channel < 1291013849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think, given that i'm not on any others < 1291014760 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291015059 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291015865 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291016988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291017252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291017418 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291017599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1291017600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1291019264 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1291021002 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291021559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Off I go... < 1291023812 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1291028539 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1291029933 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291030259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523! < 1291030269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What /was/ that thing elliott did to Agora? < 1291030289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did quite a lot to Agora < 1291030304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what in particular you're referring to < 1291030319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one about noöne knowing what any of the rules meant. < 1291030333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that seems unusual < 1291030339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time, most of the players know what most of the rules mean < 1291030348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I remember < 1291030364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently, he managed to send a message that was ambiguous in a rather 50-50 way < 1291030423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it took ages to decide whether it worked or not < 1291030435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291031929 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291032152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:00:12 I don't think I have one, but I think I have a picture sufficiently revealing of the relevant characteristic. < 1291032155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoted without context < 1291032200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:09:04 We should transcend beyond these physical shackles of bodies and exist as beings of pure energy. < 1291032201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291032204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:09:37 when's the first mass suicide meeting of #esoteric < 1291032204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1291032239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:24:01 Why am I a pope? < 1291032239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:33:29 Sgeo: because some cardinals got together in a room and voted. < 1291032255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone was there, from aleph null to beth null (although they /might/ have been the same person, we're not sure) < 1291032324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:43 I'm going to assume that Fine Structure either isn't finished or that it ends rather abruptly. < 1291032332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is finished, but that was before you realised you missed stuff :) < 1291032355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:06:01 So why would elliott link me to something that's not the best book? < 1291032356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually, \aleph_0 and \beth_0 are equal IIRC. < 1291032363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is no best book -- well, not at your experience level at least < 1291032378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's aleph and beth 1 upwards that are the subject of the continuum hypothesis. < 1291032382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but that book is both free and a good introduction, it's just focused on formally proving programs rather than the other stuff coq can do, but it covers that as part of its path < 1291032388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh,r ight < 1291032398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because \beth_0 = \aleph_0 by definition < 1291032399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh, right < 1291032408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1291032408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then \beth_{n+1} = 2^{\beth_n} < 1291032438 0 :huang!~huang@125.41.201.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291032444 0 :huang!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291032453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely sure about what the succession rule for the aleph numbers is, though. < 1291032500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ \aleph_{n+1} is just the next largest cardinal from \aleph_n, and there's no definition on what that actually /is/. < 1291032517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, 4chan's source code has supposedly been leaked. < 1291032519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/4JVjS02b < 1291032526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hideous php ftw < 1291032534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed. < 1291032541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is correct. < 1291032589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1291032589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $cmd = "nohup /usr/local/bin/suid_run_global bin/appendban $board $ip >/dev/null 2>&1 &"; < 1291032594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local/bin/suid_run_global < 1291032595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST < 1291032596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMAND < 1291032596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1291032611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1291032637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it was started by a 15-year-old; what did you expect? < 1291032646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *13-year-old < 1291032668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, he didn't code the software AFAIK; I forget who did. < 1291032674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: suid = setuid; "run this program as its owner whoever executes it", usually root, used for commands that access root-only files but that anyone can use. < 1291032685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In this case, it's probably coded to allow any shell script or whatever in the bin/ directory to execute as root. < 1291032695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now imagine if someone manages to replace the contents of bin/appendban to do rm -rf /. < 1291032707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they were willing to work for a 13-year-old, so they can't have been very competent. < 1291032707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And runs /usr/local/bin/suid_run_global bin/appendban < 1291032720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Work"? Dude, it was just a thread on the Something Awful forums and a domain name. < 1291032739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They started off with a hack translation of the 2chan board software IIRC. < 1291032741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. "Put effort into a project started by" < 1291032749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed: "It's based on the old Japanese futaba.php, which was a rotten mess to start with, and has mostly been tweaked and patched up from that, I understand. It's no wonder it's still a mess." < 1291032754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody knew he was 13 either... < 1291032779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Knew PHP." < 1291032780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.2chan.net/script/ < 1291032784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google result pointing tot he actual script: http://www.2chan.net/h/futaba.php.txt < 1291032794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4chan is basically an extended hack of an old version of that :P < 1291032808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo ""; < 1291032815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love how those \s show as the yen sign < 1291032819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the encoding < 1291033511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, come and see the work on the ROU! < 1291033540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fine. < 1291033542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291033577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wanna help me diagnose a VGA MEMORY PROBLEM?! < 1291033592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how VGA works, so no. < 1291034836 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291035359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291036560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But it's BIOS < 1291036564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIOS shouted there < 1291037021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that I don't know how the BIOS works either? < 1291038641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yo. < 1291038648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo? < 1291038735 0 :ttm_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291038746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You disconnected momentarily :P < 1291038870 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291038884 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-221-137.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291038914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect my diamond pickaxe is deep under the sea... < 1291038964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can make one. < 1291038976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the SENTIMENT¬! < 1291038981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Go to our mine. Look in my chest. There is some diamond in the rightmost column. < 1291038991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some dupes anyway/ < 1291039000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The diamond left of that is mine, don't touch it. But the rightmost you can take whatever, it's my non-coal mining spoils. I gather you have enough coal.) < 1291039020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How did it get there? < 1291039035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The normal MP duplication bug. < 1291039071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean at the bottom of the sea. < 1291039072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1291039073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4// < 1291039096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fell from the ROU, died, stuff was scattered to the 4 winds. < 1291039165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *7 winds < 1291039166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's 7. < 1291039177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which 7? < 1291039239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the 7 < 1291039255 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291039255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 seas, 4 winds, surely? < 1291039281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 4 winds, 7 seas. < 1291039286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common misconception. < 1291039302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...That's what I just said. < 1291039307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"7 seas, 4 winds" is not all *that* different from your "4 winds, 7 seas". < 1291039351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, come see the ROU! < 1291039358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 seas, 4 winds, surely? < 1291039358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: 4 winds, 7 seas. < 1291039361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...That's what I just said. < 1291039362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back. < 1291039364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat. < 1291039373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is it with everyone wanting fizzie to look at stuff < 1291039384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted you to look at stuff too. < 1291039393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work, I can't be all aROUnd the ROU right now. < 1291039449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan should be here to swat you for that. < 1291040154 0 :ais523\unfoog!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291040306 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291040567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's ais523\funoog! I mean ais523\unfoog. < 1291041353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291041408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Phobos anomaly!" --yellow < 1291041669 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm marking again < 1291041703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: yes, the clan name was rather a hint. also the \. < 1291042346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The timeout is fixed but arbitrary. It was a quick hack to remove cars which "get stuck" without dropping their load. It has the side-effect of making this program extremely frustrating to watch." < 1291042408 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ESR coming back to INTERCAL has done /some/ good; he seems to have connections amongst many of the relevant people, and it unearthed details about the Atari implementation < 1291042437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so basically, esr is useful only in that he knows other people :) < 1291042445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they groan whenever he appears in their inbox < 1291042448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not again..." < 1291042457 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that it never existed; the person who first made the electronic copy of the manual was planning to write it, so they documented it in an appendix/tonsil, but neve really started < 1291042463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, i'm nasty :D < 1291042463 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow, this seems appropriate < 1291042466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: ...wow. < 1291042470 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was meant to run on arbitrary 6502-based systems < 1291042472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: *That* I would *not* have guessed. < 1291042482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It seemed so... obviously real. < 1291042502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (Although I couldn't quite imagine anyone typing in INTERCAL code on an 8-bit ATARI...) < 1291042503 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was intended to be < 1291042519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, clearly we need to implement Atari INTERCAL, then < 1291042523 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was never ported to the Atari, despite being intended to be ported there, because it was never finished < 1291042534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: otherwise, the compatibility features of modern INTERCAL systems are useless < 1291042540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, we must make them useful by implementing it < 1291042562 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we still have compatibility to the Princeton impl, which definitely did exist < 1291042586 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, C-INTERCAL was designed to emulate the Atari impl by default, it needs options to implement others < 1291042678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: right, what I'm saying is, that choice as a compatibility decision now makes no sense at all, you've effectively implemented a never-used-before dialect of INTERCAL < 1291042688 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1291042689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so, clearly, we need to implement Atari INTERCAL, so that the choice has relevance and justification < 1291042694 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1291042709 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, emulating an existing implementation would be rather similar to most other compilers, though? < 1291042720 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulating a nonexistent implementation is so much better < 1291042745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: isn't emulating an implementation *before it even exists* even better? < 1291042771 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1291042780 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal/commit/e4f30b9803b2f2911147cc7746fc2e8315387baa is esr's explanation (in the manual) of what happened < 1291042803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, he's even got into the documentation? < 1291042817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example programs printing out anti-gun-control messages to be in the next release's manual < 1291042830 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, I am looking at his commits, after all < 1291042838 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makes sense for him to document his changes, rather than making me do it < 1291042855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: I'm not sure he'd let you remove anything he added :P < 1291042859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think he will, just sayin'.) < 1291042867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's probably still thinking of it as "his" program. < 1291042890 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the only time I ever rejected a proposed feature was that Perl and PHP did it already < 1291042898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: haha < 1291042902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: variable variables? < 1291042904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. ${$x} < 1291042906 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291042921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: hmm, obviously you need variable constants... or variable invariables... < 1291042931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: no, variable constants is definitely best < 1291042931 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if elliott was thinking "what unusual-seeming feature is done by both Perl and PHP?"
< 1291042936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291042938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1291042938 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they exist already, -v option on command line < 1291042943 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO #1 <- #2 < 1291042949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: heh, what does -v mean? < 1291042954 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291042961 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "don't error out on attempts to change the value of a constant" < 1291042973 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt that having that behaviour by default might make things a bit hard to debug < 1291042998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh yeah, INTERCAL, so easy to debug < 1291043010 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-223-77.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291043026 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, normally to assign to constants in INTERCAL you have to do something like DO .1 <- '.1/#1'$#0, but C-INTERCAL allows the abbreviation) < 1291043043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so helpful < 1291043059 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL both let you assign to arbitrary expressions, but they're both buggy in that respect < 1291043103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so does writing a specialiser for a pure functional language in x86-64 assembly without a libc or a kernel sound like fun to you? < 1291043111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause i sorta need someone to do that, and it doesn't sound like fun to me. < 1291043115 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a specialiser, again? < 1291043125 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't actually know x86_64 asm < 1291043142 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 8086 asm, but never bothered to see how it had changed when it went 32-bit < 1291043240 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291043295 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, being well-connected is a surprisingly useful skill < 1291043303 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I feel vaguely well-connected just being in this channel < 1291043326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: a specialiser takes a function (F_big : X * Y -> Z), and an argument x, and returns (F_small : Y -> Z), where the first argument is filled in < 1291043345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: of course, you could just do this with partial application, but the trick is partial *evaluation*: you actually evaluate all the stuff you can, knowing the first parameter's value < 1291043353 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's how you implement a curried function? < 1291043356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1291043358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: of course, you could just do this with partial application, but the trick is partial *evaluation*: you actually evaluate all the stuff you can, knowing the first parameter's value < 1291043375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: this lets you, say, convert an interpreter into an efficient compiler. (and this "actually works") < 1291043377 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crossed messages < 1291043388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I /think/ \aleph_{n+1} is just the next largest cardinal from \aleph_n, and there's no definition on what that actually /is/. < 1291043393 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still looks like a way of implementing a curried function, just an optimised way < 1291043398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, basically < 1291043409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't assume the axiom of choice, it's the next largest _well-orderable_ cardinal < 1291043424 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291043429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: say the specialiser is S, and you have an interpreter (I : Program * Input -> Result). then S(I, P) where P is a program is a function (Input -> Result). < 1291043429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well if you assume AoC, then all cardinals are well-orderable < 1291043441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if the specialiser is sufficiently advanced, then the result of S(I, P) is an efficient compilation of P. < 1291043442 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't say things like "assume the axiom of choice" to me without clarifying contexts < 1291043452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (it *is* possible to write specialisers this advanced, just very difficult) < 1291043458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: (it has been done) < 1291043461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: huh? i was quoting Phantom_Hoover < 1291043463 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this CS lab, people do things like assume it on booleans but not integers < 1291043475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, Axiom of Choice is provable for finite sets... < 1291043476 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on integers but not reals < 1291043480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, the AoC only applies to infinite sets < 1291043481 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are two sets involved < 1291043506 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them obviously has to be infinite for it to be interesting, but the other one has quite a few possibilities < 1291043508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: -- oh, and of course, S(S, S) is a function that takes an interpreter and returns a compiler. < 1291043545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: now the specialiser can be in language A, take programs in language B, and output programs in language C, but doing interpreter-to-compiler tricks requires A=B, or at least two specialisers, one taking B and written in A, and one taking B and written in B. < 1291043565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well in any case the _general_ axiom of choice is equivalent to all cardinals being well-orderable < 1291043577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if you know of PyPy, their conversion of interpreters to JITs is basically specialised (:P) specialisation, with some annotations to make it easier < 1291043607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he knew even a tiny bit of logic
< 1291043612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and who can tell about Zorn's lemma? < 1291043618 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-144.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291043622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is equivalent too < 1291043622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i *refuse* to believe i know more logic than you < 1291043629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and i know a tiny bit < 1291043634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was making reference. < 1291043641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably know more logics than me, at least :D < 1291043649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "The Axiom of Choice is obviously true, the well-ordering principle obviously false, and who can tell about Zorn's lemma?" --Jerry Bona < 1291043662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1291043688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Tarski tried to publish his theorem [the equivalence between AC and 'every infinite set A has the same cardinality as AxA', see above] in Comptes Rendus, but Fréchet and Lebesgue refused to present it. Fréchet wrote that an implication between two well known [true] propositions is not a new result, and Lebesgue wrote that an implication between two false propositions is of no interest".) < 1291043690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you probably know that one) < 1291043699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1291043722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh and it is actually possible to get the "useful" part of the Axiom of Choice without the well-ordering theorem, in an intuitionistic logic < 1291043724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html < 1291043726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would have hoped the editor would have noticed the discrepancy < 1291043740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (and the "useful" part is actually provable in type theory, which you probably know) < 1291043749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as you probably < 1291043809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah well intuitionistic logic is afaik more or less restricting the concept of existence to constructable existence, which makes AoC sort of trivial < 1291043826 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, intuitionistic logic < 1291043833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yes. but it's interesting that it doesn't imply the well-ordering theorem < 1291043836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's just intensional choice < 1291043837 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up all the time in computer science, because it makes a good model of certain things < 1291043850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: it comes up all the time in computer science because it's how you do (sane) theorem provers :) < 1291043856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1291043859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as realised in type theory < 1291043864 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not just that, that's a special case < 1291043868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well, yes < 1291043882 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(not not a) = not not(f a) < 1291043892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitionistic logic is lovely, too bad it's not all that useful for actual mathematics :) < 1291043909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f(not not a) = not not(f a) < 1291043912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if f is impure! :p < 1291044227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:29 surely, emulating an existing implementation would be rather similar to most other compilers, though? < 1291044231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:58:40 emulating a nonexistent implementation is so much better < 1291044235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm with ais523\unfoog here :D < 1291044275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, emulating a nonexistent implementation is better than emulating an implementation before it even exists? < 1291044282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's forwards-back-compatibility < 1291044324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291044373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "in 1990 we implemented the compiler, selecting compatiblity with Atari INTERCAL, written in 2010, as the default mode." < 1291044565 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291044600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291044611 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291044726 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291044757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ is topical today < 1291044798 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291044832 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291044926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's fizzie's, in case you don't recognise the name < 1291044941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he showed it to us quite a while ago, so we can now measure the length in weeks of the submission queue! < 1291044982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _thought_ it was something familiar < 1291045019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was a bit confused because i know there's a guy on the mezzacotta forums who uses a piet avatar (Taneb) < 1291045081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw that nick briefly in this channel once < 1291045093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i probably shouldn't know fizzie's real name without even checking, should i < 1291045111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I remember it < 1291045124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed oklopol omniovorol or whatever < 1291045134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominovorol < 1291045134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw i have hatched a plan to get your real name! but i've forgotten it < 1291045138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i hatched < 1291045140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291045146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my real name which i've mentioned multiple time < 1291045147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1291045157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: WELL GREP CAN'T SEARCH FOR NAMES < 1291045159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fizzie isn't trying to hide his real name, it's right there in the whois < 1291045165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is Jaska Jantunen < 1291045166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll try and find like < 1291045169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :University of Turku < 1291045170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Student List < 1291045174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wait really? < 1291045176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291045185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ...no man, you're not a J kind of person < 1291045187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have Is in your name < 1291045189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he's either lying now or has lied before < 1291045190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like < 1291045192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äs < 1291045198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah :P < 1291045203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's jaska juntunen < 1291045212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay okay, it's Päivi Liimatainen < 1291045232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i have a feeling you constructed that name to fit my expectations :P < 1291045234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why isn't irssi showing that properly < 1291045238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1291045245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, you're no Päivi. especially since that ä looks ugly next to the P < 1291045247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't choose my name < 1291045253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: prolly mirc is too dumb to show his encoding < 1291045255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291045257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: prolly mirc is too dumb to send the right encoding < 1291045263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: äääääää < 1291045269 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I like oklopol omniovorol as a pseudo-real-name for oklopol < 1291045274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay, if you really need to know, my name is Villä Sälö < 1291045281 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares what the real real name is if you have something that sounds plausible? < 1291045296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but irssi used to show both correctly when my terminal was set to iso-8859-1 < 1291045312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: set your terminal to utf-8, set irssi to convert everything else to utf-8 < 1291045316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that what you did < 1291045321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey i remember hearing that < 1291045325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but wasn't that another lie < 1291045332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that one was real < 1291045334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can construct a name orthogonal to my real one with < 1291045340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it sometime! < 1291045343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No results found for "Villä Sälö"." < 1291045347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that vaguely implausible < 1291045350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a rare name or sth < 1291045351 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1291045353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very rare < 1291045360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Marvin McHamster < 1291045361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is he lying < 1291045377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not weirdly spelt enough. < 1291045396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Phantom McHoover < 1291045399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: erm it may be that irssi only can convert from utf-8 and that the fact it showed iso-8859-1 properly before was because i had my terminal set to that so it got through when irssi didn't convert... < 1291045411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he has tweaked the vowels < 1291045414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also not weirdly spelt enough. Think silent consonant clusters. < 1291045419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "irssi only can convert from utf-8" um, that would be rather silly < 1291045434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok googling "villa salo" makse me doubt oklopol :P < 1291045437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on incoming from chaneel... < 1291045443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mcwnm Yyyrtk < 1291045451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one of the vowels wasn't just adding an accent < 1291045455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: most clients can convert from whatever -> utf-8 before pooping it to the terminal (technical term) < 1291045457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap the order and that's close enough. < 1291045482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if i met oklopol in real life i'd just call him oklopol < 1291045493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that i'd pronounce it oh / kloh / pohl because that's how i pronounce it < 1291045501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not owh / klow / powl < 1291045503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of my friends call me oklopol < 1291045509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct :P < 1291045515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irl < 1291045524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is correct :P question mark < 1291045537 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some also call me brother lasol < 1291045578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet others call you malcom mchamster < 1291045579 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291045581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plundering your dirt supplies since I've run out. < 1291045590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*channel < 1291045655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: run out of dirt. wow. < 1291045678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using it as scaffolding. < 1291045689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I need a *lot* of scaffolding. < 1291045726 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291045736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you sure you actually exist in real life < 1291045745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1291045768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you don't, you're a figment of your own imagination < 1291045768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, but i have no idea what that implies < 1291045793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck did i get to reading vjn comics < 1291045798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291045798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are terrible, yet i can't stop < 1291045809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: write me something accented characters < 1291045812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language are they in? < 1291045813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with < 1291045831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, VJN? < 1291045839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um, i suppose you *could* call it english, if you were feeling generous < 1291045843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's this thing < 1291045856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you made some of them, you should know :| < 1291045858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: PLEASE i'm trying to test my setting change here < 1291045859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that was 5 years ago in 2008 < 1291045864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: äüöïë < 1291045870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no only he can do it < 1291045889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for detecting non-utf-8 incoming < 1291045893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: verdã! êxcellentè! ẅimäsẗurkã! < 1291045897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ẅ) < 1291045908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not suitable to say bad in school, little uli < 1291045917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/c/greenone.png what is this even < 1291045922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äöäöäöäöä < 1291045925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :öäöäöäöäöäöäöäöäöäöäöäöäöä < 1291045928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: WHAT IS IT < 1291045929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: thank you! < 1291045952 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever been called ais523 in RL < 1291045965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a racist joke < 1291045970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/c/bladeofhell.png is the phallic imagery intentional < 1291045971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ulis are very racist < 1291045977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: i totally would < 1291045989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: although it's a cumbersome name, you have to pronounce every single bit separately < 1291045990 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, and I'd likely call you ehird without thinking < 1291045992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it appears recode_fallback was the right setting. i foolishly changed it to utf-8 when changing the other things, but it's supposed to be the name of a non-utf-8 encoding to try to convert from < 1291045993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably < 1291045995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well you could say five hundred and twenty-three but that would be weird < 1291046003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'd probably respond to ehird irl without thinking < 1291046007 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I spell it out when I say my own name mentally < 1291046014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also, we prefer "away from keyboard". we believe the internet is real. < 1291046017 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange that I think of you as ehird whatever your actual nick < 1291046018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1291046021 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's real, but not alive < 1291046030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: whoosh (or intentional ignorance) < 1291046032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ais f'tuthr" < 1291046064 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you just made me try to pronounce ais523 in one syllable < 1291046067 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost doable < 1291046074 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not particularly intelligible < 1291046084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais fhtagn < 1291046092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ia, ia, cthulhu f'tuthr < 1291046163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: if you missed the meme reference: http://www.zubon.org/log/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/01-10-1115.jpg < 1291046166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(took me ages to track that down) < 1291046167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the pirate bay trial < 1291046178 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed it might be a meme, but wasn't aware of what it was < 1291046184 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1291046191 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember the quote < 1291046207 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"away from keyboard" doesn't really work either, though < 1291046229 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as typically, saying afk in IRC means you physically have to leave contact with the computer, perhaps in an emergency < 1291046311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/index.php?c=17 i have absolutely no recollection of making this < 1291046418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: "away from [the] keyboard, i blah'd" < 1291046426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, "afk" makes no sense like that < 1291046430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: XD < 1291046492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "As a rule number one, please remember that beguiling your time on this channel is never meant to be an enjoyable experience *for you*." < 1291046495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not sure theyk now what beguiling means < 1291046497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291046498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they know < 1291046568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4.To pass (time) pleasantly." but yeah i don't recall seeing this outside a dictionary < 1291046597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1291046621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please note that to join a Finnish association like ours, you don't have to hold the citizenship of Finland or reside in Finland." < 1291046628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, i could waste money to absolutely no avail without even moving! < 1291046631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291046642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the benefits! < 1291046645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you could join, but we're thinking of making a new association soon so < 1291046654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the name a bit and such < 1291046658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, Phase 2 of ROU construction complete! < 1291046669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what, but vjn is the perfect ordering of the three perfect letters < 1291046676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a j person < 1291046686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but i thought you liked that language :| < 1291046690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oerjan will now swat me < 1291046696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm talking wronglyest < 1291046700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an exception < 1291046716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: vwn then < 1291046718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vun? < 1291046719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vtn? < 1291046720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vrn? < 1291046721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vzn? < 1291046722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vxn? < 1291046724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vcn? < 1291046724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not telling ya < 1291046724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vvn? < 1291046726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vnn? < 1291046728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v?n? < 1291046732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd register the name! < 1291046750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely, i'm that evil < 1291046754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that irc channel still existing < 1291046765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, it might be a good idea to stick to English, Finnish, German or ZX3 to avoid getting banned." ZX3 wat < 1291046774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language of volimo's < 1291046810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/index.php?a=361 ha my name will always be famous < 1291046813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks a lot like tok pisin < 1291046826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291046831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think oklotalk--'s way of setting vars by reusing the name as a parameter was fucked up :D < 1291046857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very fucked up, and i should actually change it a bit < 1291046869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a better handle of names < 1291046878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some things you can't do now < 1291046879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- the map here is so output makes sense, implementation defect really --> < 1291046880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(map {(get _)} (qs list)) < 1291046882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1291046886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither. < 1291046898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so is oklotalk permanently abandoned :p < 1291046902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291046903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1291046926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just it's much crazier than it used to be < 1291046971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things get pretty fucked up, cooking up there in my headplace < 1291047016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what about your os, does it now run solely on badgers < 1291047115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear mushrooms are required for proper fucking up < 1291047120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291047131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard about MaOS? < 1291047146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the majava operating system < 1291047149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :majava = beaver < 1291047157 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291047161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where everything is a beaver < 1291047238 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291047248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with my professor on something! < 1291047263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well you can install linux on a dead badger < 1291047266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She said that the textbook doesn't talk about making your own modules, but she feels it's important < 1291047271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml < 1291047283 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she took examples from a different book < 1291047314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wow, like sum kinda scientist or sth < 1291047376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i just can't see you writing assembly really < 1291047379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: bios calls and all < 1291047479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds kind of unlikely, yeas < 1291047491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just glad she didn't blindly follow the textbook < 1291047505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: BUT IT MUST BE DONE < 1291047512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we don't use textbooks here < 1291047526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profs just write stuff < 1291047549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned I dislike this school < 1291047564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291047605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like mine < 1291047608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1291047620 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the C module today was a disaster < 1291047630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh joy < 1291047636 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the students have started on exercise 3, which is writing a keylogger as a kernel module < 1291047645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: :D < 1291047654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: best module ever, can i include it in the kitten kernel? < 1291047671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: wait are these guys actually using "make menuconfig" and the like? are you sure they know how to do that? < 1291047674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys/gals/whatever < 1291047676 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the reason it was a disaster is that the kernel doesn't actually let you hook the interrupt in question, so it was being done on a kernel modified to allow modules to hook the keyboard interrupt < 1291047689 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /module/, those don't require recompiling the kernel < 1291047707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: oh, they do when you don't use modules and just compile everything in ... like kitten ... but i digress < 1291047716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: also, lol @ that < 1291047724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: it'd be easier to patch X.Org to do it :) < 1291047732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well < 1291047733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pty layer < 1291047735 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that's how all sane Linux keyloggers work < 1291047736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd get ttys too < 1291047740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd need to do X.Org too < 1291047741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1291047754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you could just log VCs separately to X.Org < 1291047755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :job done < 1291047766 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, obviously it would be crazy to give the students root perms on the normal lab machines so they could try to get this to work < 1291047788 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, they were sent to an unusual lab which has some sacrifical machines that are going to be wiped after the exercise < 1291047801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: haha < 1291047808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: should have told them to install linux on their own machine and try it there < 1291047813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: intellectual darwinism < 1291047829 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, among other things, have no public internet connection, and do not have the modified kernel needed to do the exercise < 1291047846 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the exercise itself was available from the course website < 1291047851 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can see where this is going... < 1291047890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, the exercise itself was available from the course website < 1291047893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, as in the solution? < 1291047897 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the question < 1291047907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: i can't see where it's going, but i'm not good at predicting trainwrecks < 1291047909 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they couldn't access it from inside the lab, because no Internet < 1291047916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's possible that i've predicted it and not real- ah :) < 1291047936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: so did anyone manage to get it done? any intrepid people compile the patched kernel and install it to make it work? < 1291047938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291048248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go, little intrepid car! go go go! < 1291048250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it! < 1291048259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you'll live to the next generation! < 1291048370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/c/isocsshit.jpg why did you make this < 1291048445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: congratulations, "Quimbox" is the worst comic I have ever read < 1291048450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's 20 of them?! < 1291048465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there isn't :D < 1291048660 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291048674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sorry not yet < 1291048679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couple more exist than are online < 1291048689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably complete the series < 1291048733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with http://www.vjn.fi/c/isocsshit.jpg < 1291048770 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291048771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reader needs to learn what isocs are < 1291048785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they can fully enjoy watching them be massacred < 1291048802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you recall making http://www.vjn.fi/c/003.jpg < 1291048804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about 0.1% of all uli comics are online) < 1291048804 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-46-184.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291048831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i do, yes < 1291048839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i now remember making the other one as well < 1291048858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so there's like... 700 uli comics? < 1291048862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximating through sheer guesswork < 1291048901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay much more < 1291048920 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've spend weekends just watching volimo draw those < 1291048960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1291049233 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291049270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Not permitted: hereby said so. Your violation of access rights has been reported unto our staff." < 1291049293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the oficial mesages < 1291049319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1291049325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hies < 1291049508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should try newspeak again < 1291049584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wawait, newspeak is mostly functional? < 1291049593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Define mostly... < 1291049596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news peak < 1291049603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is one exactly one construct in the entire language that makes it imperative; the rest depends on the libraries you use. So it’s very easy to restrict oneself to coding in a pure functional style in Newspeak." < 1291049659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down < 1291049660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291049672 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: back; sorry, I was just doing a bunch of marking < 1291049684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who marks the markers? < 1291049688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523\unfoog: so did anyone manage to get it done? any intrepid people compile the patched kernel and install it to make it work? < 1291049688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :P < 1291049702 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they were given an RPM with the kernel on < 1291049726 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, of course, it was only accessible via scp/sftp from a location that nobody knew, eventually the lecturer came by and told us what it was < 1291049754 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people who were unused to Linux had to figure out how to copy an RPM from a fileserver on the local network, install it, and then run the new kernel < 1291049769 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I spent most of the two-hour session running around explaining it to people < 1291049783 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even once that was done, they had to find the example code they were meant to work from < 1291049794 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, we copied it out of the lecturer's home directory < 1291049807 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know, it was a+r, and accessible from that machine via ssh...) < 1291049854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this friend of mine is teaching java at uni, he usually spends the two hour sessions telling people what the difference between returning values and mutating the parameter is < 1291049873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course about how a function can actually be called multiple times, with different parameters < 1291049943 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: strangely, most of the students here grasped that pretty well < 1291049993 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291049993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gibbers
< 1291050001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, does your friend happen to work here? < 1291050004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gibber gibber < 1291050006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are they masters students < 1291050013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOU DID NOT GIBBER AT ALL THERE STOP IT < 1291050020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWO-YEAR-OLDS GIBBER < 1291050059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber gibber < 1291050074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giblets < 1291050129 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291050157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291050162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopop < 1291050256 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, they are not master's students, not in cs at least < 1291050259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Newspeak browser needs tabbed browsing. < 1291050266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well ais523\unfoog's students are. < 1291050275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1291050281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not his students i guess they're not his property technically < 1291050283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's just call them that < 1291050284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are < 1291050286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1291050289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever start writing a sentence and it's stupid < 1291050293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just happened to me, funniest thing < 1291050298 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291050300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes all the time < 1291050304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i do < 1291050316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i proudly present it to the world, and go on with my life < 1291050376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i did that, it's the lines above that line. < 1291050396 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1291050447 0 :ais523\unfoog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1291051168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291051620 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291051732 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-223-239.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291052231 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-227.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291052360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291052550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Newspeak browser needs tabbed browsing. <-- a double plus good idea? < 1291053551 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291053554 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291053609 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1291053796 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291053876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1291054778 0 :ais523_!~ais523@cpc2-king8-0-0-cust831.perr.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291054782 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291054783 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291054802 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, fan got stuck, computer shut down to avoid overheating < 1291054808 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't notice in time < 1291054811 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's working now < 1291054865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: cramming the components into 11" sure didn't work so well for toshiba, huh < 1291054910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291055045 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1291055055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291055253 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291055274 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1291055457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it bad when 99% of the thoughts i have about project X are utterly unrelated to the direct point of project X and are instead about my insane implementation choices? < 1291055575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291055602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how can you say that, you're a mathematician :) < 1291055633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mark Zukerberg’s Zionist FB which took YEARS to develop and ran as a prototype for years. Than was registered in 1997 and it wasn’t until a YEAR LATER in 1998 that they could formally launch it." what < 1291055643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah facebook, launched in 1998 < 1291055644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't i < 1291055651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey that sounds like the reason why most of my programs stay vaporware :D < 1291055664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of the reasons < 1291055677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because mathematics is about abstracting your problems away to such a degree that you can't possibly be lonely any more! < 1291055699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the opposite of implementation choices < 1291055766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually there is an intersection there, when you fall into the trap of making a whole general framework just to write part of your program < 1291055853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well in my case it's that my implementation choices are *abstractions* < 1291055855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said basically < 1291055868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not thinking about my wonderful OS, I'm thinking about lazy specialisers and type theory :) < 1291056008 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@75-174-223-239.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291056008 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291056053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...my vague attempts at writing a Reaper implementation in Haskell tended to get stuck on me trying to invent Enumerators before oleg did, i suspect... < 1291056069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should try again soon < 1291056180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is Reaper that hard? :P < 1291056197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is uncategorised! < 1291056199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikignomes
< 1291056228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is intended to be more insane than what the description so far may indicate < 1291056235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, why don't we delete [[Language list]] and point it to [[Category:Languages]]? < 1291056243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC admins can edit the sidebar < 1291056257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with a script to put language list articles into the category < 1291056264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are any missing < 1291056287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Redivider get very little attention? < 1291056318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the issue of article names that are incorrect for technical reasons, and also something about formatting for categories being awful with great length variation < 1291056350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay < 1291056356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we on mediawiki anyway :D < 1291056379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the Language list article could be expanded with short descriptions. anyway i recall there was a discussion of this on the talk page. < 1291056420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may have been started by me asking the same question, at least i was involved i think < 1291056475 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.180.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291056522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, do you copy? < 1291057001 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1291057036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any chance of a map update? < 1291057118 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291057154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291057177 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. I'll do it now. < 1291057303 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291057330 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291057385 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291057529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291058205 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230229057.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291058212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, what about [[Category:Foo|bar]] < 1291058216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't that make it show as bar in the category? < 1291058244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe < 1291058251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure < 1291058429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll test it by vandalising [[brainfuck]] < 1291058461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, it just changes the sort order < 1291058465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1291058465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Brainfuck < 1291058467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck < 1291058479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes
< 1291058489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i seem to vaguely recall that < 1291058538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems random lag < 1291058551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok then we need a bot that uses [[Category:Languages|foo]] to determine the name of every language, and automatically maintains the language list :D < 1291058849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it changes sort order, yes < 1291058883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the beth numbers are ordinal-indexed, yes? < 1291058888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1291058921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What's the smallest ordinal that's equal to 1 plus itself? < 1291058930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega < 1291058932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: \omega, presumably... < 1291058938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha im smart as oerjan < 1291058965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, \omega + 1 \neq \omega. < 1291058976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordinal addition isn't commutative < 1291058983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although 1 + \omega is. < 1291058986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _is_ equal to 1 + \omega < 1291059000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see the pitfalls of using language to describe maths. < 1291059016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so which way round is it for beth numbers? < 1291059020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omegamega < 1291059031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm it's defined as \beth_{n+1} = ... < 1291059034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the wrong way :) < 1291059044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1291059075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there any ordinal n such that n = n + 1? < 1291059080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + a = a for all infinite ordinals a < 1291059081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1291059097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n + 1 is by definition the next larger ordinal < 1291059119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so there's no set equal to its own powerset. < 1291059132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, that's Cantor's theorem < 1291059134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that... was obvious < 1291059135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1291059139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just about to type "Cantor's" < 1291059139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291059151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking you had some Higher Evil Purpose in mind than *that* < 1291059157 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just proved that here a few days ago < 1291059161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WAIT but what if X is strictly larger than X < 1291059162 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i though Phantom_Hoover was near < 1291059168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHAT NOW CANTOR, YOU DON'T DISPROVE IT ANY MORE < 1291059175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q.e.motherfuckin'.d. bitches < 1291059179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was wondering if there was some weird, esoteric set which didn't work with Cantor. < 1291059196 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i proved it for every set < 1291059203 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-119.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1291059207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in ZF set theory < 1291059249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah cuz theorems saying "for all X" usually mean < 1291059252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for all but esoteric X" < 1291059260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why they're useful results, because we can invalidate them with esoteric edge-cases < 1291059279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the ordinals are also never-ending, they do not form a set < 1291059302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about the ESOTERIC ordinals < 1291059304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i'm a jerk < 1291059305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Burali-Forti paradox) < 1291059312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry Phantom_Hoover! just lying, you're the stupidest person ever < 1291059314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from vorpal < 1291059315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone < 1291059332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey the car stopped evolving and froze :( < 1291059347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, see? If I'm not stupider than everyone I must be strictly smarter than myself. < 1291059367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorrt, *not as stupid. < 1291059382 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a logic in which the exception makes the theorem < 1291059384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that cantor < 1291059396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: there should be < 1291059400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: english spelling logic < 1291059438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: (exists x. ~P(x) & (forall y. y =/= x -> P(y))) < 1291059443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: (interpreting exists/forall as normaly) < 1291059446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the way to prove (forall x. P(x)) < 1291059448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of this insanity < 1291059500 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1291059632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: or maybe you should just make forall mean foralmostall < 1291059641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: as long as there's finite counterexamples you're good to go < 1291059731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite? < 1291059799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ""Almost all" is sometimes used synonymously with "all but finitely many" (formally, a cofinite set) or "all but a countable set" (formally, a cocountable set); see almost." --proved by wikipedia < 1291059843 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the measure theoretic meaning basically never means all but finitely many < 1291059866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i know, but it's nicer this way < 1291059878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: (for this specific, stupid case) < 1291059884 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only happen if there are a finite set A with measure zero, and all other points are atoms < 1291059892 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, have nonzero measure as singletons < 1291059903 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1291059972 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance if it's a probability space, you'll have a countable number of points, and sets are never that small < 1291060006 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-239-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291060058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: all sets are visible under microscope < 1291060358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the empty set? D: < 1291060469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: that is EVERYWHERE < 1291060482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: also fun fact i literally thought yesterday that you should talk more in #esoteric; do so < 1291060492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and just remembered now :P) < 1291060595 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am a terrible programmer D: < 1291060601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: don't worry, so's oerjan < 1291060603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs madly
< 1291060607 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to cyber, maybe < 1291060616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Phantom_Hoover has made like 3 programs in his life! < 1291060621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 4 more than oerjan < 1291060669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan wrote a code generator for /// once. < 1291060760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: his programs are so bad that they constitute negative fractions of programs, duh < 1291060781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1291060785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as lousy as elliott's insults < 1291060802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3 programs I wrote weren't exactly shining examples of code either... < 1291060818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is it not true that you took part in the haskell 98 standards process to deliberately sabotage its usefulness in your crusade against good programs? < 1291060834 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1291060840 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses my languages ;_; < 1291060849 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, they are neither original nor well made < 1291060852 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still! < 1291060864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: you REJECTED my lazy bird logo < 1291060873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what did he do to the standard? < 1291060874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that logo a... lazy bird? < 1291060875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was even better than ratpoison's logo < 1291060882 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok : Indeed it was < 1291060884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes, it was fat and had a crossed-out lambda on it < 1291060885 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ratpoison's logo... rat poison? < 1291060891 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1291060895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratpoison's logo is a cross thing like stop sign, over a badly-drawn rat < 1291060895 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS STUPID < 1291060897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ms paint style < 1291060898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hah it was sabotaged before i'd ever heard of it (see: monad comprehensions) < 1291060898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: :'( < 1291060901 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because lazy bird HAS LAMBDA CALCULUS < 1291060915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: those weren't in h98 right? < 1291060928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed they were _removed_ in h98 < 1291060936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, pretty stupid < 1291060946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i read someone's blog, they're coding them as a ghc extension < 1291060953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like we're set for a full circle on that issue :) < 1291060967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what did you even do anyway? typo fixing? :p < 1291060995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1291061003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he fixed typos < 1291061029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantical typos < 1291061038 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(al?) < 1291061051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semanticianary typocalypse < 1291061076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typocalypse its up on us < 1291061141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: write my lazy specialiser for me < 1291061494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, down? < 1291061505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not sure. < 1291061536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had bloody well not be, or else there will be blood unless my items are returned to me. < 1291061540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, badly broken < 1291061549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: whine whine moan < 1291061562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... stop being silly < 1291061600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't < 1291061608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people shouldn't whine about items disappearing < 1291061611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's happened to all of us < 1291061612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whimper whimper < 1291061629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes you were < 1291061647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think you understand the meaning of "silly" < 1291061659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I disagree with what you say" would be reasonable, "that's a stupid response", yes, but "ha ha you are being silly" is not. < 1291061660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, he's swedish < 1291061673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think those jokes have something to them < 1291061711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this isn't single items disappearing I'm whining about. < 1291061724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ineiros found your blimp < 1291061727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal whined when his inventory disappeared too < 1291061732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own inventory has disappeared four, five, six times < 1291061736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just recreate it, it's not hard < 1291061741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes your are the abnormal one < 1291061742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store everything you don't need right now in chests < 1291061751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have quite a few nearly-irreplacable things in it. < 1291061751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when has fizzie or ineiros whined about losing their inventory < 1291061751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1291061757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nearly-irreplacable? Like what? < 1291061777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bow, for one thing. < 1291061785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291061788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Erm... craft one? < 1291061788 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291061794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to scour for dungeons to get some string. < 1291061811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ITT: server willing to use /give < 1291061819 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291061877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i.e. exactly what you were complaining about me asking for. < 1291061900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's not quite "give me back my items" < 1291062093 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291062107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is very very very close < 1291062128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so rare about string < 1291062136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, spiders < 1291062219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost a bow two. Fizzie can confirm this < 1291062240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1291062245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since bows are useless, who cares < 1291062246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too indeed < 1291062251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they will be fixed tomorrow < 1291062258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, MORE updates < 1291062265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, hey: update tomorrow that requires both client and server to be updated in sync < 1291062274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought updates were voluntary now. < 1291062283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think they are going to be very soon < 1291062286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the server probably still checks minecraft just to punish anyone actually taking advantage of that < 1291062290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minecraft.net < 1291062496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291063893 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291063903 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291063935 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-220-54.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291063962 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291064203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let's start a moneyless betting pool on who will become SHA-3 once the final round contestants are announced < 1291064335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd guess either Skein or CubeHash due to the big names behind them :P < 1291064346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that skein has attacks published and cubehash doesn't < 1291064355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In October 2010, an attack that combines rotational cryptanalysis with the rebound attack was published. The attack breaks collision resistance of up to 53 of 72 rounds in Skein-256, and 57 of 72 rounds in Skein-512. It also affects the Threefish cipher.[2] This is a follow-up to the earlier attack published in February, which breaks 39 and 42 rounds respectively.[5]] < 1291064357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*]]] < 1291064365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, bad lag < 1291064396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clearly, SHA-3 will only exist when someone manages to make a perfect mapping from a larger set to a smaller set. < 1291064412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Obviously, in order to compute this function you need a magic wand and a spellcaster. < 1291064416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, up again < 1291064420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: considering they're announcing final round contestants soon, i doubt it :) < 1291064433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGIC < 1291064442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MAHÔ) < 1291064442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cubehash.cr.yp.to/prizes.html typical bernstein! < 1291064490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just put bernstein in charge of security of the entire world. < 1291064519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1291064570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh, i didn't realise he was the one who got US crypto export restrictions eliminated! < 1291064573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case was first brought in 1995, when Bernstein was a student at University of California, Berkeley, and wanted to publish a paper and associated source code on his Snuffle encryption system. Bernstein was represented by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who hired outside lawyer Cindy Cohn. After four years and one regulatory change, the court case won a landmark decision from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, that software source code was < 1291064573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : speech protected by the First Amendment and that the government's regulations preventing its publication were unconstitutional.[1] < 1291064585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Often lost in the discussion of Bernstein v. United States, the court case that overturned and eventually eliminated US export restrictions on cryptography, is that the subject of the case, Snuffle, was itself an attempt to bypass the regulations. < 1291064586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snuffle showed how to use a cryptographic hash function, which was legal to export, as a strong encryption system, which was illegal to export. The irony of the case was that it was not the hash that was illegal, but the software that showed how to use it.]] < 1291064587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291064622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [[The government modified the regulations again, substantially loosening them, and Bernstein, now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, challenged them again. This time, he chose to represent himself, although he had no formal legal training. On October 15, 2003, almost nine years after Bernstein first brought the case, the judge dismissed it and asked Bernstein to come back when the government made a "concrete threat".[2]]] < 1291064631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cubehash is actually quite a simple hash algorithm. ♥ Bernstein. < 1291064652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :D < 1291064859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1291065124 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291065393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1291066545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why did tar win out over cpio? isn't cpio more advanced and with a more unixy interface? < 1291066557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the fact that it was in SysV < 1291066577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: why does initramfs use cpio? why rpm? < 1291066580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rathe than tar < 1291066604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The cpio utility was standardized in POSIX.1-1988. It was dropped from later revisions, starting with POSIX.1-2001 due to its 8 GB filesize limit." heh) < 1291066616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pax can do cpio though :P < 1291066622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio's a bit easier to parse, I bet. < 1291066658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sure RPM just uses a library or calls out to cpio... < 1291066675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But yeah, why did tar win? < 1291066708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Bent Linux's bpm uses cpio.bz2. I'm not sure why; it just calls out to cpio(1). Perhaps the author used rpm a lot. < 1291066777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha! pax can be used to do cp(1). < 1291066779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -depth -print | pax -rwd target_dirfind . -depth -print | pax -rwd target_dir < 1291066794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well; cp with -R, that is. < 1291066830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that tar's a bit older. And network effects took over. < 1291066937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you *seen* how useless pre-2001 POSIX tar is? < 1291066951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1291066960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tar is such a bad format. < 1291066965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which makes me suspect: lol, GNU did it. < 1291066975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because GNU had their own tar extensions that made it useful. < 1291066991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Despite all this, GNU cpio is actually the GNU Operating System's official archiver, and can read and write tarballs. < 1291067006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Perhaps rms uses it, or something. < 1291067021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[GNU cpio supports the following archive formats: binary, old ASCII, new ASCII, crc, HPUX binary, HPUX old ASCII, old tar, and POSIX.1 tar. The tar format is provided for compatability with the tar program. By default, cpio creates binary format archives, for compatibility with older cpio programs. When extracting from archives, cpio automatically recognizes which kind of archive it is reading and can read archives created on machines with a dif < 1291067022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferent byte-order.]] < 1291067024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A...ASCII cpio? wat < 1291067031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL! < 1291067040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: look at the list of downloads on http://www.gnu.org/software/cpio/ < 1291067045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio-2.11.tar.gz and its signature < 1291067046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio-2.11.tar.bz2 and its signature < 1291067046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpio-2.11.shar.gz and its signature < 1291067052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that, not even shars, just tars < 1291067053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291067421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shars aren't nearly portable enough anyway, we demand dd/sh archives < 1291067471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dd-sh.intercal.org.uk/regex/ wow. < 1291068466 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291068594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd of="CLC-INTERCAL$DTYPE-$VERSION/Makefile.PL" bs=6468 count=1 <&3 2>&1 | grep -v '[0-9] record' | grep -v 'bytes.*copied' < 1291068606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CLC-INTERCAL dd/sh packages are LIES! That's GREP I spot! < 1291068778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only that grep were a sh function. < 1291068805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is "$@" standard Bourne shell? I don't think so... < 1291068897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appears not to be in Bourne's shell documentation. < 1291068904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be in POSIX though.\ < 1291068928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess it's a Korn addition. < 1291068931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But "exec 3/dev/null < 1291069178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And voila! < 1291069185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAHA PASCAL < 1291069185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/mac.h < 1291069191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Old :P < 1291069207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT USES TRUE=-1 < 1291069263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You need `...` for Bourne sh, right? Not $(...). < 1291069268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1291069272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$() is a POSIXism. < 1291069280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does `echo $1 | ...` work if $1 exists in the parent scope? < 1291069300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure. < 1291069340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1291069340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tksh < 1291069343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm. How does one increment a variable by one when one is only in possession of dd and Bourne sh? < 1291069345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Korn shell with Tk. < 1291069379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT I missed the easiest solution to this. < 1291069391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : out=$out$c < 1291069393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha < 1291069419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am *horribly* afraid the only way to do increment is a lookup table. < 1291069426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good thing I don't have to, then. < 1291069433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although I, uh, will need addition soon. < 1291069438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. < 1291069453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I have to use decimal to pass to dd, so I can't just use unary and concatenate. < 1291069469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, doesn't even work either. < 1291069484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1291069502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291069528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that doesn't even work. < 1291069568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you say "replace first instance of this with that in this string" in bourne sh? < 1291069571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely can in bash, easily < 1291069579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ${foo#blah%whatever} kind of stuff < 1291069653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wait, $@ *is* Bourne. < 1291069666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. The replacement thing... Looking. < 1291069751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But is "$@" somehow magically expanding to multiple things Bourne? < 1291069754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can't do the replacement thing. < 1291069755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in "$@"; do ... done < 1291069765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1291069769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WAIT that's okay I can use dd to do the replacement thing! < 1291069774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay dd < 1291069876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha, it works. < 1291069894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/fVLX < 1291069901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: parsenum 123xyzblah -> 123 < 1291069918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you want easy arithmetics, you can use a file as a unary variable. To convert the value to a decimal integer, extract the file size from dd diagnostics. To add a decimal integer N to one file, do "dd if=inputvar of=outputvar bs=1 seek=N". < 1291069956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (1) <3 (2) Any way to do that without using a temporary file? I suppose not, but... < 1291069962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, I can just use a variable, duh. < 1291069965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=`dd ...` < 1291069968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the like. < 1291070006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to do something that would do `dd if=/dev/zero count=...` and so on, but it appears zero bytes are too scary. < 1291070069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Define too scary. < 1291070099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They go away; "echo `dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=5` | hexdump -C" just prints a single newline. < 1291070123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, hexdumps a single newline. < 1291070143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wouldn't /dev/urandom work? < 1291070148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, hypothetically... < 1291070179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, you can implement the equivalent of "yes ''" as a shell function. < 1291070208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yesnewline >&3 | dd <&3 bs=1 count=5 < 1291070212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No? < 1291070221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And echo whatever else on a non-&3 pipe. < 1291070286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that sounds at least plausible. < 1291070313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now you have to tell me how to tell dd not to bother actually copying the file, just to display stats as if it would have. :p < 1291070346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that isn't the problem < 1291070399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hum, actually. < 1291070421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=42 seek=69 > t 2> /dev/null; dd if=t bs=1 < 1291070422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111+0 records in < 1291070426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 42+69 in decimal. < 1291070455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't quite yet figure out how to do that without the temporary, since you can't seek=N a pipe. < 1291070478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: >/dev/null, duh. < 1291070502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need to be able to read the resulting output file to get the result. < 1291070516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagnostics from the original dd ignore seek/skip amounts. < 1291070542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Use skip instead of seek? < 1291070564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt that would work, but... < 1291070570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't really help, then it just silently skips N bytes out of /dev/zero, which has no discernable effect. < 1291070612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, duh. < 1291070625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: x=`dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=42 seek=69 2>/dev/null` < 1291070632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, no. < 1291070635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said that didn't work. < 1291070664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't do anything; both the "`` won't save zeroes" problem, and the "seek won't work if of= doesn't name a file" problem. < 1291070676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dd can do conversions, can't it? < 1291070682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can change the zeroes to... something else? < 1291070703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ebcdic/ascii and such, couldn't yet figure out anything that'd do anything to zeroes. < 1291070750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least you can compute N*M without a temporary file: "dd if=/dev/zero bs=6 count=7 2>/dev/null | dd bs=1" and read the diagnostics. < 1291070768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh. < 1291070777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Unfortunately I don't need multiplication. < 1291070806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this works in bash: < 1291070809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ (dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=42 2>/dev/null; dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=69 2>/dev/null) | dd bs=1 < 1291070810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111+0 records in < 1291070821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how complicated (...) subshellery you can do in sh. < 1291070825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's so bash about that? < 1291070829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling all pikhqs. < 1291070839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, {} might work, perhaps? < 1291070867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am really not a sh guy. But as long as you get something to run two commands and get their outputs into the same pipe. < 1291070930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: erm, define a function and use that? < 1291070976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, y'see, I don't know how primitive sh is, so I tend to assume the worst. Chances are that stuff will work. < 1291070981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If nothing else, at least sh -c 'dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=42 2>/dev/null; dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=69 2>/dev/null' | dd bs=1 < 1291071004 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291071005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The so-called manual subshelling.) < 1291071103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bourne sh had functions right? < 1291071111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1291071120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add () { < 1291071121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : parsenum `( < 1291071121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count="$1" 2>/dev/null < 1291071121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count="$2" 2>/dev/null < 1291071121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) | dd bs=1 of=/dev/null 2>&1` < 1291071121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1291071125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowest way to add two numbers EVER < 1291071132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What you named there would work in Thompson shell. < 1291071132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from intercal's snobol implementation < 1291071143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So (x; y) | z is kosher in Bourne? < 1291071147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, good. < 1291071148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the predecessor to Bourne, written by Ken Thompson.) < 1291071149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Entirely. < 1291071175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://steve-parker.org/sh/bourne.shtml Here. < 1291071181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION replaces /dev/zero with his own infinite-output function; relying on non-/dev/null files here seems wrong.
< 1291071187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Bourne shell documentation. Written by Bourne. < 1291071199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he's crazy enough to code C like that, why should i trust him :D < 1291071213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1291071277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about ":"? :p < 1291071280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use (exit 0) instead. < 1291071370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yesnl | dd bs=1 count="$1" 2>/dev/null < 1291071370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yesnl | dd bs=1 count="$2" 2>/dev/null < 1291071375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't work... yesnl is: < 1291071377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while :; do < 1291071377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Echo < 1291071378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : done < 1291071389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hangs forever. < 1291071395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works with if=/dev/zero... < 1291071410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no longer on? < 1291071456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd, Echo appears to be the problem. < 1291071463 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291071494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1291071520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd seems to not bother quitting... < 1291071533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. < 1291071536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while :; do < 1291071536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Echo || return < 1291071537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : done < 1291071541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: return kosher Bourne? < 1291071560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*while Echo; do :; done < 1291071561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291071575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Try building Bourne shell and testing. :P < 1291071584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sounds scary < 1291071789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for the record, if you need to handle negative quantities, subtraction is really easy: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=123 2>/dev/null | dd bs=1 skip=45 of=/dev/null 2>&1 will compute 123-45. < 1291071836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You are awesome. < 1291071898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People should use more unary number systems, they're the bee's knees. < 1291072000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : block pad newline-terminated records with spaces to cbs-size < 1291072001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1291072001 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what about negative numbers? < 1291072021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo | dd cbs=1G count=1 conv=block < 1291072022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score < 1291072023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for free < 1291072050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sped up my addition algorithm immensely! < 1291072101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just test for the - sign and then subtract instead of add, and so on. It's a bit of messy, but none of those dd parameters can be negative. :/ < 1291072112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Man, your algorithm is unbelievably slow. < 1291072123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's yesnl... < 1291072139 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IMO it's just no comparison to balanced ternary < 1291072161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant the unary bit, not just dd/sh math in general. < 1291072174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you want to be *practical* about it... < 1291072328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: got any ideas? :P < 1291072430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dear. < 1291072442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMP's pixeliser has betrayed me. < 1291072454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can CLEARLY see those genitals!" < 1291072521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the ellipse → pixel thing. < 1291072535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suure. < 1291072570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With cbs=1G, I wouldn't be surprised if dd were allocating a gigabyte and doing something to it in memory before starting to write. < 1291072589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Unlikely, it goes quickly for me. Anyway even with /dev/zero it's TOO SLOW. < 1291072605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: File sizes in bytes are regularly added to it. < 1291072663 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's O(n) single-byte write/read pair where n is your sum value. < 1291072823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to speed it up a tiny bit by converting those two "output" dd's from "dd bs=1 count=N" to "dd bs=N count=1", but the reading "input" dd does need bs=1 for the diagnostics. (Maybe ibs=1M obs=1 could work too.) < 1291072823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right, but I have to numparse it, which invokes dd a lot and is O(n) where n is length of the resulting number. < 1291072825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It slow. < 1291072830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? it is up < 1291072869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I saw your numparse. < 1291072885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I'm despairing at the fact that I may have completely messed up the ROU's hull in places. < 1291072949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That goes INSANELY faster. (Well, faster enough.) < 1291072970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: parsenum is "interesting"; http://sprunge.us/fVLX < 1291073018 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291073028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "ibs=1M obs=1" fails horribly. < 1291073054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, parsenum optimisations welcome :P < 1291073070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Those echoes are *Echo in the new version < 1291073075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually dding to dd < 1291073076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a "read up one byte at a time with dd" sort of thing. < 1291073078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION inlines the Echos
< 1291073094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c=`dd bs=1 count=1 2>/dev/null </dev/null || exit 1 < 1291073156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd of='/home/elliott/code/inst/wget-1.12/tests/Test-ftp-iri.px' skip=3255 count=1080 <&3 2>/dev/null || exit 1 < 1291073223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? < 1291073234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how so? < 1291073246 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291073247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might well be broken; it's not very well-tested. < 1291073248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, my cobblestone factory works. It is larger than that though < 1291073256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, GIMP's pixelisation of ellipses is borken. < 1291073258 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291073271 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back from school. :) < 1291073272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I see. Is it visibly wrong? < 1291073308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: More efficient ways to implement < 1291073309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesnl () { < 1291073309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Echo | dd cbs=1G conv=block < 1291073309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1291073310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the difference is about 1 pixel off-centre. It's still niggling, though. < 1291073312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are also appreciated. < 1291073317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I see. < 1291073318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that "nl" is totally wrong, /me renames it to inf. < 1291073326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ibs=1M obs=1 failure is probably because you're reading the first line of diagnostics, not the second. (But if you can easily get the N'th line, you can actually use bs=1M in general and read the third, "bytes copied" bit.) < 1291073383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Get the second line? With *dd*? < 1291073393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe with another parsenum-style monstrosity... < 1291073448 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1291073466 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1291073468 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[ < 1291073481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: sorry i'm too busy implementing a dd/sharchiver. < 1291073494 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS ACKNOWLEDGED! < 1291073498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, less slow ways to do: size=`parsenum \`dd bs=1 if="$file" of=/dev/null 2>&1\`` < 1291073499 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, it's good. < 1291073513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For instance ways that don't involve copying the file. < 1291073524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you said "may" < 1291073527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you however do it? < 1291073548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, depends on how easily I can ignore it. < 1291073552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that just reading the file instead of actually copying? Still. < 1291073555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual error is very small. < 1291073568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there you go then < 1291073576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in which direction is the error? < 1291073578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Copying it to NOWHERE. < 1291073587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, major axis. < 1291073599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is in the length? < 1291073616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well since you can't easily see from side to side that isn't much of an issue < 1291073668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh lawd. < 1291073677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: All the dds have "skip=foo", and read from the program file itself. < 1291073692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So basically I have to know the size of the ddshar script, including the skips, before I can write it... < 1291073728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does CLC-INTERCAL do it... < 1291073733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd of=/dev/null bs=2825 count=1 <&3 2>/dev/null < 1291073736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, cheatingly. < 1291073743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, um, for the earlier thing, there's again the bs=1 issue that usually slows that down. You can try ibs=1 obs=1M but that probably won't help much; or bs=1M if you can be bothered to read the third line. < 1291073744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait, I don't need addition after all; there is that. < 1291073788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Patches accepted wrt reading the first line :P < 1291073837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd of=/dev/null bs=2825 count=1 <&3 2>/dev/null < 1291073842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how the padding imposes a maximum file length < 1291073937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HAHAHA how do you do subtraction again? < 1291073946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dd of=/dev/null bs=1234 count=1 <&3 2>/dev/null" sounds like it's better written as "dd bs=1234 skip=1 count=0 <&3 2>/dev/null" to get a seek instead of a throwaway read, but I can't be sure that'd work. < 1291073957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or rather: How do I fill in, say, 20 spaces with a number, left-aligned? < 1291073959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And leave the rest free? < 1291073977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skip would work, yes; thanks. < 1291074005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm actually planning to get rid of the /dev/null dependency. >&4 should work, for unallocated fourth descriptor. < 1291074020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody said dd/sh implies unix! < 1291074155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how to get the third line: < 1291074157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo xxx | dd bs=1M of=/dev/null 2>&1 | dd cbs=80 conv=block 2>/dev/null | dd cbs=80 bs=80 skip=2 conv=unblock 2>/dev/null < 1291074160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 bytes (4 B) copied, 0.000917496 s, 4.4 kB/s < 1291074179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first dd is the one producing the diagnostics. < 1291074182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now now, dd could always print a line longer than 80 chars. < 1291074195 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291074197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, make it a bit longer. < 1291074208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Arbitrary limits are bad for your HEALTH! < 1291074234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says the "20 spaces with a number" guy. < 1291074275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You do realise the number going in those 20 spaces depends on the length of the line they're in? :P < 1291074283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patches WELCOME! < 1291074353 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291074563 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291074569 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291074742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Funny how similar this is to quining... < 1291074767 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone use OpenOffice 3? < 1291074784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: i have used it < 1291074790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like using it, nor want to use it < 1291074798 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291074801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would prefer it and its Microsoft brother would just go shoot themselves forever or something. < 1291074804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: also, it's LibreOffice now. < 1291074805 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i do doublespacing? < 1291074815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: with the formatting menu. < 1291074841 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, duh < 1291074845 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I feel stupid < 1291074847 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, elliott < 1291074858 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is your editing-for-print solution of choice? < 1291074865 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION derp a derp a derp
< 1291074875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i don't believe in paper. i am fairly sure it does not exist. < 1291074891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably latex, because i'm a masochist. < 1291074900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpret /that/ sentence as you will < 1291074907 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about paper monies? < 1291074912 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, fine. editing for publishing-in-pdf-form-in-print-like-formats-for-an-online-journal then < 1291074921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: not real, the only real money i have is electronics < 1291074925 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just plain straight latex? < 1291074929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about paper aeroplanes? < 1291074932 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about books? < 1291074934 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1291074935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes. well, with the memoir class probably. and other packages. but yes, i just use latex. < 1291074937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lyx is terrible. < 1291074937 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and origami < 1291074941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely latex for books < 1291074943 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and napkins? < 1291074947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :origami is based on a false assumption (that paper exists) < 1291074954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :napkins aren't made out of paper where i come from. < 1291074956 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1291074961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're made out of soft wood. < 1291074962 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the languages I'm learning < 1291074966 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen a nonpaper napkin < 1291074967 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried folding a kindle once. the results were quite satisfying < 1291074977 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost know 17 languages :D < 1291074984 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Which? < 1291074987 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe sahsa has never seen a cloth napkin. he must be poor. < 1291074997 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog, Common Lisp, Haskell, C, C++, C#, Java, Python, Assembly, Brainfuck, Perl, Befunge, Scheme, Forth, Bash and Batch, and a bit of HTML/CSS < 1291075007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how can you not like origami? < 1291075008 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, just don't go out often < 1291075012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so cool! < 1291075022 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning Haskell, Forth, Perl and Befunge < 1291075022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i "like" it like i like tesseracts < 1291075024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely hypothetical < 1291075027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the fun sort of origami with regular solids and things. < 1291075036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of that boat crap. < 1291075038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: is batch actually turing complete. also, which assembly < 1291075069 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Seeing things involves looking at them < 1291075070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, neither HTML nor CSS are programming languages. < 1291075083 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of those are real languages < 1291075089 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's this guy who made a full-size cuckoo clock out of single giant piece of paper without cutting. i wish i could find that website again. < 1291075092 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NASM assembly < 1291075100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, O.o < 1291075101 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for linux :P < 1291075103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it work? < 1291075106 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides in 15, give me a break :D < 1291075138 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uh, no. it's paper. contiguous paper. ...i don't even know how you could ask that. < 1291075143 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I would reverse-engineer the shit out of that fucker < 1291075155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, well, that's boring. < 1291075157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and none of those are real languages < 1291075164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, prolog? haskell? forth? < 1291075167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C? < 1291075170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly? < 1291075173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck? < 1291075176 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl < 1291075177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of these are not real languages < 1291075185 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them < 1291075185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: no perl is an elaborate prank >:) < 1291075190 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ LOL < 1291075191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: i see; name a real language < 1291075197 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :French