< 1289174448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as that #line has no semantic behavior, I'm gonna go with "who cares if it supports it" < 1289174744 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, turned out I needed another bunch of segments for user space, I have *eight* of the bastards now < 1289174783 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is for long mode which was supposed to do away with segmentation < 1289174840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I suppose the error messages will be harder to read if it doesn't support #line command. (Even then, it might be possible to make a program which filters the error messages and reads the #line commands to convert them) < 1289174886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, the output of Frama-C (or any other program that does something like that) is piped to the filter program) < 1289175315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: In long mode, you cannot have segments that are smaller than the entire memory space. < 1289175354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Unfortunately, it still uses segmentation for its idea of kernelspace and userspace seperation. < 1289175385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that qemu's I/O is really insanely slow when it has to expand a disk image. < 1289175886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem should not be hard < 1289175892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I spending >\epsilon time on it < 1289176302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FSF has a list of free software licenses incompatible with the GNU GPL. Some of them is because you are required to change the name of the software. Didn't they fix that with GPL v3, to allow the software to have the additional restriction that you cannot call it the same thing as the official version? < 1289176311 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe I am wrong, but I don't know.) < 1289176563 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1289176627 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1289176634 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289176682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bah, turned out I needed another bunch of segments for user space, I have *eight* of the bastards now <-- paging! ;P < 1289177475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If GCC had a -Wcast-spell option, what would it do anyways? < 1289177613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Warn when you do casts which are likely wrong due to typos. < 1289177707 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That seems correct. < 1289177789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what it would do, I guess. (Of course it doesn't exist; I even tried it. It was in a list of joke options for GCC) < 1289177921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with -vomit-frame-pointer < 1289177938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1289178738 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289179017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bweheheh. Qemu's snapshotting ability lets me get around load times. < 1289179039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take *that*, PC games! < 1289179204 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1289179207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG best idea ever. swap over nbd. < 1289179275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful. < 1289179279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN BETTER: < 1289179290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) sshfs (the FUSE one) < 1289179301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) losetup /dev/loop0 /swapfile < 1289179304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) swapon /dev/loop0 < 1289179315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swapping can context-switch to a program, which may be swapped out! < 1289179316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEATH < 1289179401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But, did you consider about the Random Number Hole? < 1289180245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fuck that. < 1289180253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hah. < 1289180271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... Oh dear God the consequences of that. < 1289180308 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1289180315 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289180321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random Number Hole? < 1289180324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you say KERNEL-MODE INFINITE LOOP? < 1289180446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1289180446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1289180449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1289180778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that places like Fark and Reddit must sound to Freepers what Freepers sound to places like Fark and Reddit < 1289180779 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289180789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see Freeper reaction to a Fark thread, for some balance < 1289180813 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289181370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not quite. < 1289181477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You'd have to go a *bit* further left for that. < 1289181876 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289181879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing the book "Literate Programming Hacks", it describes use and examples of Enhanced CWEB, as well as various tricks that you can make with it. You can read so far if you want to, make suggestions, contributions, questions, ideas, please. < 1289182150 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289182173 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289182180 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289182388 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tell me if you found any typing mistakes, too. < 1289183099 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289183209 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DAMN IT ME. FYTHE IS SO AWESOMETERRIBLE. ARGH. < 1289183399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DO TELL, ÞEE. < 1289183417 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing the transform engine in C is painful :P < 1289183455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1289183459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it in Fythe. < 1289183462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289183547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final transform from IR -> runnable code is part of the transform engine, so it's not knottable. < 1289183568 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought my computer was halfway decent until I just spent the last few hours waiting for an ubuntu stock kernel to compile < 1289183606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficient magic. < 1289183614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: *Few hours*? < 1289183620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Dear God that's sad. < 1289183629 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1289183642 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always made custom kernels with just what I needed in them < 1289183648 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fast < 1289183679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289185003 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welllll < 1289185018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, Ubuntu's stock kernel probably builds with (!ships) basically every module in the source. < 1289185052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Still should only take an hour or so. < 1289185142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if I built it on my ChiPad! < 1289185341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much swap does that thing have? < 1289185369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits as Gregor sets up a terabyte swap device via nbd before answering < 1289185369 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289185398 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 1TB. < 1289185412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1289185423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, it can definitely build then. < 1289185651 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1289185659 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going in some kind of loop < 1289185664 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wonder it isn't done < 1289185669 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1289185948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different kind of Monty Hall problem is as thus: The contestant selects one of three doors. One has a car, two have goats. Monty Hall opens one that the contestant didn't select which contains a goat (using a satellite to control the doors). One goat always tells the truth and one goat always lies. The problem is: Who is the liar? < 1289186063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: develop a taste for cheese made from goat's milk, and make cheese. < 1289187840 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289188048 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289188838 0 :calamous!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1289189062 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289189490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'awww. Missed moment of awesome. Carl Sagan wanted "Here Comes the Sun" (by The Beatles) on the Voyager record. EMI refused. < 1289190171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't that be the Beatles's decision? (Assuming they were still around) < 1289190296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how copyright law works. < 1289190298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1289190309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's written by a bunch of phalluses. < 1289190418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely imagines Voyager landing somewhere and destroying life just as it's beginning to form < 1289190438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably incredibly unlikely, but it would be... disturbing < 1289190472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what's Voyager's final fate likely to be? < 1289190486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit star, black hole, drift until universe ends? < 1289190659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V'ger. < 1289190669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1289190688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Star Trek: The Motion Picture". < 1289190699 0 :Decarabia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1289190709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is not a terrible film, but has *major* pacing issues...) < 1289190862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: As dictated by Star Trek XI, its final fate is that it never existed in the first place :P < 1289190899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION builds a Cathedral < 1289190933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I suck at references < 1289190942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nah, I got the reference. < 1289190955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but could have said something that made more sense < 1289190976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "/me joins the campaign for real time" < 1289190985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, true, that would've helped a lot. < 1289191028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been so long since I read that book that the only reason I remember anything about that is because I saw it on Wikipedia :/ < 1289191063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a couple months since I last listened to the radio series. < 1289191089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The book... I would have reread it sometime in the past couple years, but I don't know where my copy is. < 1289191093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I legally listen to the series for free? < 1289191119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you have a time machine. < 1289191164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a campaign for real tea... < 1289191216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there isn't, but there's someone saying there should be < 1289191221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/3563374/Letters-to-the-Telegraph.html < 1289191237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the word Cathedral right there is why this thing came up in my google search < 1289191315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is, however, a standard cup of tea. < 1289191343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ISO 3103) < 1289191436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to wiki, it's more for documenting the making of a cup of tea < 1289191451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than standardizing a cup of ... oh, hm < 1289191461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still allows you to produce and ISO standard cup of tea. < 1289191546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. Andre Geim received the Ig Nobel Prize in Physics in 2000, and the *Nobel* Prize in Physics in 2010. < 1289191549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice work. < 1289191583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess that the Ig Nobel is for the tea? What's the Nobel for? < 1289191595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ig Nobel for magleving a frog. < 1289191601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1289191620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobel for experiments with graphene. < 1289191980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION manages to confirm that someone's saying ISO-0xC0FFEE was, in fact, a joke unrelated to the number 3103 < 1289191990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without using anything to do the actual conversion < 1289192008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Factor was loading too slowly) < 1289192142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0xC0FFEE looks a bit too large to be 3103, but I'm checkin... 1 2 4 8 | 16 32 64 128 | 256 512 1024 2048 | 4096 < 1289192142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No way 3103 has more than 3 hex digits < 1289192164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I'm saying this < 1289192307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 0xC0FFEE should be a real standard. < 1289192312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably for coffee. < 1289192804 0 :Decarabia!~root@S010600240171528a.ed.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289193248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you earn the Ig Nobel prize and Nobel prize both for the same thing, then you win. < 1289193271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there METAFONT files for Creative Commons licenses? < 1289193629 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1289194480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I agree. That would be win. < 1289194751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to say something like "If I die in a fire tonight, it's because I left the dryer on while I slept", but I'm deciding I'll continue drying the clothes tomorrow morning < 1289195098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1289195109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289195368 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289195569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly Sgeo's "dryer" is a blowtorch. < 1289195680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289197241 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289197377 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289197397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Now I am going to fire my clothes manually while sleeping < 1289197708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289200390 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289200516 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289200929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289201545 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1289202469 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289203199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1289203200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1289204026 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289204290 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289209263 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-253-150-51.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1289210583 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289211188 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289212032 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1289213055 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1289213214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289213754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289217552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289220709 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~ < 1289222081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any free SSL cert providers that don't suck as hard as startSSL X_X < 1289222102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Observing that CAcert sucks much, much more since nobody recognizes them) < 1289222788 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289223129 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289223273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt there are any; I was in fact a bit surprised about StartSSL being as reasonable as it is. How exactly do they suck? < 1289224195 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1289225034 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289225431 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1289225771 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289225792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than 15. < 1289225832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00:36 elliott: I know you weren't talking to me, but by a wonderful coincidence "make it detect the client" was actually good helpful advice for a software project I'm working on, so thanks! < 1289225837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: also, it's more than 15 < 1289225839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more helpful advice for you < 1289225884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:40 probably my own API, posix is overrated < 1289225890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinder words than I'd choose < 1289225911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:43:50 * ais523 tries to figure out what something likely is if Vorpal describes it as a joke < 1289225911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:43:57 a... sentence? < 1289225911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289225968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:13 i remember that one guy from gamedev.pl wrote a game that was multiplayer and allowed to mine and set blocks, build houses from block & stuff and it looked better than minecraft < 1289225968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:21 it was, huh, in 2003 ? < 1289225968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:39 how come that such a crap gets so many players and cash < 1289225971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are shallow. < 1289225974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:40 nooga, minecraft is intentionally retro though < 1289225974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:51 i don't think so < 1289225976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1289225983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43:14 nooga, anyway good gameplay beats good graphics < 1289225984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43:24 that's true < 1289225984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43:32 but it might have looked better < 1289225985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. < 1289226000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:38 i guess it's software rendered < 1289226000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:45 nooga, no it isn't < 1289226000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:49 or well, it isn't for me < 1289226000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:49 It's OpenGL. < 1289226000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:52 then WTF?! < 1289226001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:45:00 why do i get 10 FPS? < 1289226005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the rendering depth is ridiculous. < 1289226011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:46:33 i guess it was written by some student in 2-3 days < 1289226012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guess wrong. < 1289226021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:47:02 "well, i know a bit of java and we did opengl during the classes so uh, i will write funny game" he thought < 1289226030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what uniformly-sized 3D blocks did to you as a child to inspire this hatred. < 1289226066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:15:29 what an impertinence < 1289226067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:00 i hate the author < 1289226069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17:20 fuck < 1289226070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17:46 cheesy virtual lego for 4 packs of cigarettes < 1289226098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite an advanced stage of addiction where it's bad and wrong of someone to ask for more money than it takes for N of what you're addicted to. < 1289226105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I didn't notice that last bit. That's some quality hate there. < 1289226108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nobody is forcing you to buy the horrible student non-retro slow game of evil. < 1289226116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if you don't want to. < 1289226192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mind, if real-life lego had zombies and mining... < 1289226195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be awesome. < 1289226285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also really tiny portals to hell. < 1289226288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Nether. < 1289226300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have been unable to find them. :-( < 1289226307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to build them. < 1289226308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am not the good at Minecraft. < 1289226318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. It has to be said that I have also been unable to craft a single thing. < 1289226336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to build them out of obsidian, though, and obsidian is rather rare and tricky. < 1289226377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a diamond pick to mine it with, and it's oh-so-slow with that too; and naturally occurring obsidian usually sits directly on top of lava, so it's hard-ish to collect. You can make your own, though. < 1289226423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Man, and all I do is hit pigs and go downwards. < 1289226450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/2/2d/Natural_obsidian.png Wait, where is the Obsidian here? < 1289226471 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1289226504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Note: Going past the Bedrock barrier will kill you, reason being is that the world ends and you will fall to you death and you won't be able to place block to save yourself due to being far below the closest block. < 1289226543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like the "economy portal"; http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/f/fa/Portalcomparison.png. < 1289226574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, all my (two) portals are the economy models. < 1289226580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When re-entering the normal world, any distance covered in The Nether is multiplied by 8 times, effectively making The Nether a fast travel zone that allows for greater distances to be covered in a short amount of time in the normal world." < 1289226582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyperspace! < 1289226583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I filled the corners with that red hell-stone. < 1289226608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On portals: "Physics: No" < 1289226612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should feed Minepedia into fungot. < 1289226651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just about everything is "Physics: No", only sand and gravel fall down. < 1289226672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should, but I doubt they have XML data dumps for me, and scraping is so impure. < 1289226676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it's funny! So shush. < 1289226734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Minecraft monsters freak me out. < 1289226744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "mobs". < 1289226753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are pretty scary. < 1289226760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those moabs (pronunciation-accurate!) < 1289226788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So far, every time I encounter them I just try and whack them with whatever block I'm holding. That ... that rarely goes well. < 1289226815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, maybe you should make a stone sword or something. < 1289226881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That would require learning how to craft. < 1289226922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You craft things up to 2x2 size in the inventory (i), and larger with the workbench (made with 2x2 planks). But of course if you have some sort of ideological opposition... < 1289226923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Rana" were mobs who resembled little girls with frog hats. They were originally in-game as a test; Rana was made by "Dock", Minecraft's past artist, for another project of his. The player's character was supposed to look like Rana, albeit with a miner hat, no ponytails and a different skin. This was scrapped with Dock's removal, with a fair few people arguing for her to stay.]] < 1289226926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I smell drama! < 1289226956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's just that I'd have to collect blocks and stuff to craft, and who likes doing that? < 1289226982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, it'd feel too much like a *game*. < 1289227001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you meant to figure out the recipes by yourself? < 1289227011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I doubt anyone actually does :P < 1289227049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that too. < 1289227057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure there's at least one "purist" in the world. < 1289227074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Used to hold Mushroom Stew. The player keeps the bowl when they eat the stew." < 1289227078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eat the stew, keep the bowl! < 1289227103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it seems that i am too disillusioned with minecraft to play it after thinking of Dwarf Fortress ONLINE < 1289227114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best game?? no. only game. < 1289227142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Creeper AAAAAAAAH < 1289227143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Dwarf Fortress is indubitably far more eXtreme. < 1289227178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Zombie_Pigman is a bit... too. < 1289227218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At least that isn't camouflaged. < 1289227225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now I'm wondering what Dwarf Fortress 3D would be like. < 1289227259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By editing the mob's files, it is possible to make the slimes much bigger, some values creating 50 block high slimes." < 1289227416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ New plan: Whenever someone tells me to "fix smp" or similar, I will work on something else for four hours!]] < 1289227424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming SMP is what I think it is, I wonder what problems people have been having. < 1289227479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Creepers are misunderstood creatures. Try to befriend them instead of hurting them! A friendly pat on the back should do it!" ;; oh dear god < 1289227619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't want to scare you or anything, but Creepers carry records. It is probable that they have found jukeboxes too, and have some form of civilisation and intelligence. < 1289227635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In minecraft parlance, SMP is Survival MultiPlayer. < 1289227642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's buggey as Nether. < 1289227651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ahhhh. (Wait, how do you do that?) < 1289227658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it part of Alpha? < 1289227663 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of Alpha, yes. < 1289227707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecarts don't work there, and all mobs (as well as players) are unkillable; the server doesn't track health. < 1289227731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the plus side, you can jump from top of the map to bottom for fast one-directional vertical travel. < 1289227753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually jumped down my mine-shaft in single-player mode before thinking. < 1289227760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ended badly. < 1289227783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I will not be satisfied until I get a portal on the very bottom of a level, somehow flat, go inside, dig a hole all the way down, get back into the portal, build a tower to the very top of a level, and ... drop < 1289227802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I actually jumped down my mine-shaft in single-player mode before thinking. ;; What I do is, I destroy the block below me. Forever. < 1289227813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this reminds me of the volcanos in Dwarf Fortress < 1289227826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Then I collect a bunch of blocks -- uh, you know, those really easy to destroy ones? -- and build my way back up my shaft. < 1289227833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uh, except worded less like that.) < 1289227840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, they were originally a bug caused by lava falling down a bottomless pit, overflowing it, and falling back on from the top of the screen < 1289227847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brilliant < 1289227854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, *overflowing* a *bottomless* pit? < 1289227861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1289227864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a MAXINT pit < 1289227871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289227878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: impressive to get MAXINT lava < 1289227893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose it depends on the units, and the size of the integers < 1289227901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if they were using shorts or even chars there to save memory < 1289228050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to lend me a server farm? < 1289228056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a decent network pipe? < 1289228073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put whatever you want to the cloud. < 1289228078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, there it floats. < 1289228092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course money will fly out too, but them's the breaks. < 1289228094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ...how... Look at the first line of http://sprunge.us/SFFO X-D < 1289228117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (The bot, there, is meant to be running on $some_random_server. I refuse to use the term "cloud", only make snarky references to it in nomenclature.) < 1289228141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hypothesise that fizzie has read my mind. < 1289228152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be the other way around, too. < 1289228173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you just do your psychic "more than 15" stuff. < 1289228197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If that was the case, you'd have asked for a server farm to implement that on first! < 1289228202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think I've mentioned the idea to ais523 before. < 1289228204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I claim PRIOR ART < 1289228212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fizzie's mind is in fact patented.) < 1289228390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Document is currently being inspected. Please allow 7-10 days. No action is required by you at this time." 19 days already! Stop being in that state! < 1289228422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is what you get for STEALING MY IDEA. < 1289228586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things worse then Apple regularly spamming you because you did, at one point, buy an Apple product: Apple spamming you about Microsoft Office 2011 being out for OS X. < 1289228940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1289228962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1289228991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure either < 1289228996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "wait what?" at what? < 1289229004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Apple spamming about a Microsoft product < 1289229021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From: Apple < 1289229026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: Introducing Microsoft Office for Mac 2011. < 1289229038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apple spamming about the availability of a Windows Phone 7 sync app for Mac OS X would be funnier, though) < 1289229047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Apple and Microsoft have an agreement of some sort there, I think. < 1289229064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They sell it in the online store and all, and advertise it on the sites of the various Mac models. < 1289229068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where Microsoft advertises, umm, Safari for Windows? < 1289229081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(acually, Microsoft /do/ advertise Safari for Windows, but only because the EU told them to) < 1289229096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, where Apple advertises office and Microsoft do nothing because Apple couldn't possibly make demands :) < 1289229109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it does get conversions out of the "...but what about my precious Office???" crowd though. < 1289229115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Office for Mac 2011 support Visual Basic? < 1289229115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Asked by KV from Irvine < 1289229115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 27-Oct-2010 < 1289229115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 Answers < 1289229124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Yes. Office for Mac 2011 comes with VBA 6.5, ported from Office for Windows. According to Macworld magazine this version of VBA will give Mac users all the latest VBA tools and be fully compatible with Office. So if you create macros on your Mac they "should work just fine" in Windows.]] < 1289229201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nomic 217! < 1289229230 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289229277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried "Office v. X" for a bit on the iBook there; it was, well, reasonable, I guess. (Seems like 2011 will be >=10.5 must-be-Intel though.) < 1289229393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you really still have OS X on there? < 1289229411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, good old Tiger. < 1289229420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Psht! NETBSD! < 1289229480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that Ubuntu dual-boot thing going on, but it's a lot more noisy laptop when in Linux. (Either the temperature tolerances or just something about fan control or power-saving in general could do with some tuning.) < 1289229490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Commerce and business will shift from offices and malls to networks and modems. [...] Baloney. Do our computer pundits lack all common sense? The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works. [...] Yet Nicholas Negroponte, director of the MIT Media Lab, predicts that we'll soon buy books and newspapers straight over < 1289229490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Intenet. Uh, sure." < 1289229497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Newsweek < 1289229500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1995) < 1289229534 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-144.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289229541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he say why it's baloney? (Bologna!) < 1289229576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, not really. http://www.newsweek.com/1995/02/26/the-internet-bah.html < 1289229586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[What the Internet hucksters won't tell you is tht the Internet is one big ocean of unedited data, without any pretense of completeness. Lacking editors, reviewers or critics, the Internet has become a wasteland of unfiltered data. You don't know what to ignore and what's worth reading. Logged onto the World Wide Web, I hunt for the date of the Battle of Trafalgar. Hundreds of files show up, and it takes 15 minutes to unravel them—one's a biog < 1289229586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raphy written by an eighth grader, the second is a computer game that doesn't work and the third is an image of a London monument. None answers my question, and my search is periodically interrupted by messages like, "Too many connectios, try again later."]] < 1289229591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's pretty much the only, uh, argument in there. < 1289229608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, now we can get our unedited, inaccurate information from one place: Wikipedia! < 1289229637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Every voice is heard. The cacophany more closely resembles citizens band radio, complete with handles, harrasment, and anonymous threats.]] < 1289229640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, yes :-) < 1289229662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's the guy who sells http://www.kleinbottle.com/. < 1289229671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And also wrote The Cuckoo's Egg. < 1289229671 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1289229679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: at least Wikipedia is usually right, despite being inaccurate and unedited < 1289229682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, who sells Klein bottles from that site, not who... sells that site. < 1289229688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it's again that "-- the myopic glow of a clunky computer replaces the friendly pages of a book" thing. < 1289229691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Inaccurate true statements! < 1289229724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Klein bottle thing is awesome, though; I've been thinking of buying one some day as a birthday self-present or something. < 1289229745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Slereah_ has the mug, I think. < 1289229748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe he dislikes it. < 1289229754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask'im. < 1289229763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kleinbottle.com/drinking_mug_klein_bottle.htm This'un. < 1289229828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds a bit too useful. < 1289229839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Haha -- [[Stoll was a regular contributor to MSNBC's The Site.]] -- [[The Site, hosted by Soledad O'Brien, was an hour-long TV program devoted to the Internet revolution.]] < 1289229853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, he even wrote a book on how the Web is rubbish; dedication. < 1289229857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd like to see is a restaurant that randomly served this http://www.kleinbottle.com/wine_bottle_klein_bottle.html to people ordering wine. < 1289229870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Devnull.gif Oh wow, he's called "Dev Null". < 1289229886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Classy. < 1289229924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For optimal aerodynamic performance, your Wine Bottle Klein Bottle has smooth, spline-like curves." < 1289229927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like they say: "Guaranteed to frustrate even the most dedicated wine connoisseur: it's difficult to fill, difficult to pour, and difficult to clean." < 1289230077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ls /opt < 1289230077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash-4.1 egobf-0.7.1 ick-0.-2.0.29 perl-5.12.2 ruby-1.9.2-p0 < 1289230078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL-1.-94.-2 emacs-23.2 nginx-0.8.53 Python-2.7 zsh-4.3.10 < 1289230086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quick, give me other software that has something like a ./configure script to install! < 1289230133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I need to run to a bus. NASM has a configure script. -> < 1289230210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does it all work, in addition to installing? < 1289230231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1289230242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you have to set $PERL5LIB for CLC-INTERCAL, but yes. < 1289230246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (that's to be expected, though) < 1289230250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1289230267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try nasm. < 1289230269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is too easy. < 1289230270 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1289230288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out why "aloril" rings a bell... < 1289230291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually impressed with ick here for finding all its libaries and so in in the right place < 1289230317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably a sign of madness that I want to make it read Makefiles and detect a --prefix-esque variable and a relevant target (e.g. for programs that have platform-specific targets), right? < 1289230319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for non-autotools programs < 1289230340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's the good sort of madness; flow with it, don't fight it < 1289230348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...in Python? < 1289230357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what Python has to do with it < 1289230366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Parsing Makefiles with Python seems odd. < 1289230381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps, mostly because it's neither make(1), sed, nor Perl < 1289230407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or, uh, C? < 1289230412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing make's written in? < 1289230427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try nasm, because I'm crazy, ha ha. < 1289230437 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The company that makes the klein bottle has a lifetime guarantee that you will live your entire lifetime. < 1289230511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, by the way, if you ever release a tarball that ends in -src.tar.gz or -src-unix.tar.gz or such silliness, my program will hate you even more < 1289230520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to work around that for other programs... < 1289230609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ /opt/nasm-2.09.03/bin/nasm < 1289230609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm: error: no input file specified < 1289230609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type `nasm -h' for help < 1289230611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was easy. < 1289230960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god @ Inkscape's interface < 1289231072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for using, or for compiling? < 1289231214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about Inkscape's interface? (I don't use Inkscape, so I don't know) < 1289231224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: using; Debian comes with it < 1289231228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ... cluttered! < 1289231303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://imgur.com/SOvrL.png, if you care < 1289231564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I love Acme Klein Bottles. < 1289231597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Psht; doesn't he know that e-commerce is a stillborn concept? < 1289231617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hah. < 1289231634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (If you didn't see, he wrote an article in 1995 claiming so.) < 1289231650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grant, his website design is very very bland. Like a '95 website design done by someone sane. < 1289231676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (As well as seemingly rejecting the idea of Amazon a year after it was founded.) < 1289231684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, more than "Like". It is. < 1289231754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GF-Magick is more better instead of Inkscape try it maybe, it is not cluttered? < 1289231784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try this program tell me if it can work for you or not, or other question/complaint. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/gfmagick/gfmagick.zip < 1289231786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Are you using ImageMagick or GraphicsMagick? < 1289231787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm pretty sure the two have completely different usecases. < 1289231802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like the GIMP and ImageMagick. < 1289231834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ImageMagick. Although, you might be able to get it to work with GraphicsMagick too (you can try if you want to). < 1289231852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should probably use GraphicsMagick; ImageMagick development is dead and GraphicsMagick is much better maintained. < 1289231915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Also, ImageMagick is now under corporate control, and the corporation isn't very community-friendly. < 1289231947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GraphicsMagick is also a lot smaller and faster than ImageMagick and it has fewer dependencies, too. < 1289232008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Plus the interface is compatible (for the command-line interface, simply put "gm " in front of every command, e.g. "gm mogrify ...".) < 1289232047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I have been unable to find them. :-( <-- not in the old version, if you were still using that < 1289232059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was added after < 1289232062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it seems buggy to me < 1289232067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can do that. ImageMagick, even if under corporate control is still free software. But if GraphicsMagick is smaller and faster and compatible, then is probably much more better. Maybe in some time I will insteall GraphicsMagick. < 1289232077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I end up in different portals different times. And so on < 1289232121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought Nether portals were far downwards. < 1289232132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway doesn't it auto-update? It can tell I'm not premium so presumably it connects to the server. < 1289232140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it only update if I'm premium? < 1289232148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well updating requires you to login and get a session token < 1289232154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289232158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so yeah, only if premium < 1289232187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Don't suppose I could -- hypothetically -- not have a couple of non-files from somewhere that isn't ~/.minecraft to not get a more inaccurate perception of the game as it isn't, hypothetical non-cough? < 1289232191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289232204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! The hypothetical non-phantom hoover. < 1289232219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Again I will tell you, that you might be able to get GF-Magick to work with GraphicsMagick, it should not be difficult to make the change (either the .w file can be fixed to allow GraphicsMagick, or a .ch file can be written to compile the program to work with GraphicsMagick instead.) < 1289232219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is I. < 1289232238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Okay. (Again? When did you say this previously?) < 1289232393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me if you can use this program or if you understand this program or whatever, too. < 1289232397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: \\\ < 1289232462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sometimes it's fun wondering which of two inappropriate programs are best for a particular job < 1289232510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would you rather edit text files with the GIMP or Rhythmbox? < 1289232521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GIMP, I think < 1289232535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out how rhythmbox would do it at all < 1289232549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ooh, wait, I have a better inappropriate program. < 1289232557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Would you rather edit text files with Rhythmbox or Emacs? < 1289232557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1289232558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAP < 1289232598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had a grudging respect for Emacs... < 1289232612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Am I not allowed to playfully hate it, too? < 1289232626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, all right. < 1289232701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1289232710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1289232727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, just remove all the hypotheticals and the "not"s and you'll get what I ABSOLUTELY DIDN'T want to say. < 1289232730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just got back, and parse timeout on that hypothetical sentence < 1289232733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289232737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the n'ts. < 1289232751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ins. < 1289232782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, possibly not, do you have somewhere to not scp them to? < 1289232790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Er, I could create such a place. < 1289232795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ubuntu.com WTF: "Originally coined in 1998, the term open source came out of the free software movement, a collaborative force going strong since the dawn of computing in the 1950s." < 1289232823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1) rms must hate them for associating open source and free software like that (2) oh yeah, all those FOSS programs of the 1950s < 1289232834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact I am running an ssh server already; isn't that convenient? < 1289232841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now to figure how to jail your user. < 1289232852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that was on the previous machine. < 1289232855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1289232859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /msg? < 1289232859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs an ssh server < 1289233035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wasn't programming mainly an academic venture in the 50s? < 1289233062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. there wasn't a *point* in restricting the code, since about 3 other people in the world could possibly run it. < 1289233089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it's more that it never actually got released because yours was the only computer that could run it because nobody had standardised anything yet. < 1289233091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1289233169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was about to add "and those people were all in the same room as you." < 1289233293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bent Linux: small simple distro, statically linked against uClibc" < 1289233295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: try this. < 1289233298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Lisp is 50s-era. < 1289233309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cpio.bz2 based :-) < 1289233316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yes. Fortran too. < 1289233319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still... < 1289233324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else *modified* these programs. < 1289233327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if they were in papers. < 1289233330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it's a stretch. < 1289233342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but if you *wanted* to, noöne was going to bother doing anything about it. < 1289233382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, there were about 4 programs worth paying for at all, so you weren't exactly losing any profit. < 1289233397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which programs, exactly? :-P < 1289233420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4" sounds better than "0". < 1289233641 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289233667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my professor is apparently incapable of checking her Perl programs for typos before she puts them on an exam < 1289233688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... have Perl programs ... in a college course ... < 1289233690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drop out. < 1289233691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. < 1289233693 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your college sucks. < 1289233704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, elliott has told him this many times. < 1289233708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He never listens. < 1289233718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but elliott is elliott :P < 1289233729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , on the other hand, is Gregor! < 1289233733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: His university *beyond* sucks. < 1289233751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's the biggest, shittiest state university I can possibly imagine. < 1289233771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "big" = "bad"? :P < 1289233775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go to a big state university :P < 1289233776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if, once I graduate from here, I could get a Master's in CS from a decent university < 1289233790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's called "Farmingdale". < 1289233799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The Farmingdale State College, also known as SUNY Farmingdale, and also called Farmingdale State College, is the former Long Island Agricultural and Technical Institute or LIATI.]] < 1289233805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Agricultural and Technical Institute! < 1289233811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farming technology! < 1289233827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. < 1289233828 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two! < 1289233829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farm(verb) technology! < 1289233831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...X-D < 1289233839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should totally write a language in a West Country accent. < 1289233856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Undergraduates: Over 6,800"; they lost count. < 1289233977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes to a revelation. < 1289234016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a gay vampire!" < 1289234025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! < 1289234047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feersum Endjinn and The Algebraist are in the same universe! < 1289234057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ALL MAKES SENSE < 1289234275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he can shoehorn "Against a Dark Background" in. < 1289234278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our university has a lot to do with wood. (Finland is a foresty place, they do I guess a lot of paper technology.) < 1289234295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What about all his non-sci-fi too? < 1289234333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that can be stuffed into either the Culture or Hoovershoehorn universe. < 1289234364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or BOTH < 1289234381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, indeed. < 1289234560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289234576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he just crashed his router < 1289234580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AWESOME was too much for him. < 1289234593 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289234792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hhmm < 1289234812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the problem that Gregor was complaining about was the word _program_ to describe Perl code? < 1289234818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's entirely my wording/fault < 1289234836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it was the presence of Perl in a university course. < 1289235078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.yourdomaingoeshere.com/openvz.php $9.88/mo for 512 MiB of RAM, now taking bets on how shit it will be :P < 1289235081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/is < 1289235101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Our natural language processing course had some Perl pre-processing scripts, too; what's wrong with that? < 1289235142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Bent Linux is a compact Linux distro. It's inspired by LFS, but uses Busybox, uClibc, and static linking. It's particularly suited to building dedicated servers, initrds for custom installers and rescue disks, and systems with a nice crisp mid-1980s mouthfeel to satisfy the mid-life crises of crusty curmudgeons.]] < 1289235144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like me! < 1289235189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps not in an exam, though.) < 1289235252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .cpio.bz2 based :-) <--- this is an abomination against the timeline of archival formats < 1289235263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *a wonderful, wonderful abomination < 1289235289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IIRC Gregor said some system (HP? IRIX?) used .bz2.cpio for packages. < 1289235302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which he held up as a good example of random-access archives, except that he said it's useless for packages. < 1289235334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("$ find foo -exec bzip2 '{} \; && tar cf foo.tar foo" or whatever. :P) < 1289235337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'{}' < 1289235351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1289235357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bz2.tar or whatever is entirely different from .tar.bz2 < 1289235383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I love the way you can have nostalgia from a period before you were born < 1289235429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the best kind! < 1289235449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I swear I'm 40-odd on the inside, except whingy. < 1289235490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! < 1289235500 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289235506 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255| elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! < 1289235510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that's expensive? < 1289235519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I'm hoping that if I do this enough, a random `quote will actually be likely to return something interesting or funny < 1289235532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it does! If you're me. < 1289235533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we've almost run out of quotes, assuming HackEgo thinks in 8-bit < 1289235538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235539 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36| ehird: There is no h in "honour" < 1289235549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235550 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15| wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? No. They all go by stage names. < 1289235555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235556 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :191| ARGARGARHAHRHARHA REDDIT ON CHROME IS FULL OF HATE < 1289235588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still full of hate. Despite me getting a new computer. < 1289235594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once < 1289235603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54| I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary < 1289235613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235615 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :105| Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1289235615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235617 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40| That'd be the fahrenheit? I'm trying to have a mental breakdown here. < 1289235619 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :147| (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) < 1289235633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235637 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :199| Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on < 1289235649 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :134| A person's sex is not the same thing as their penis length. < 1289235649 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63| The thing is just to exist < 1289235677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :183|* Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. < 1289235680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93| oohhh ha heh and what are your other characteristics? oh, many, madbrain but it's hardly worth it to go on with listing that list here < 1289235692 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1289235710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235712 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :175| alise, marble marbelus < 1289235713 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12| Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence < 1289235714 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :171| alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia < 1289235724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is the context for the zzo thing? < 1289235737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's context-free. < 1289235746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there probably wasn't any even at the time < 1289235768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235769 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98| ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" < 1289235771 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243| ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic < 1289235772 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78| ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? < 1289235800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to bring my quotes pages back up < 1289235802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page < 1289235804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1289235807 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :167| like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... < 1289235807 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :166| you move on the tape and shit < 1289235808 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :108| It's not incest if you're third cousins! < 1289235845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: IIRC Gregor said some system (HP? IRIX?) used .bz2.cpio for packages. < 1289235849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was .gz.tar, and HP-UX < 1289235871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your mom's .gz.tar. < 1289235886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.gz.tar....? < 1289235908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W.. what purpose could that serve? Compress a single file for ... tar < 1289235927 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OH GOD CONVERSATIONAL INFINITE LOOP RUN < 1289235939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it makes the file smaller, obviously < 1289235940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: .hp.ux < 1289235951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.gz.tar.gz would be ridiculous < 1289235953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why is it tar'd? < 1289235962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I *think* it makes random-access easier. < 1289235964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because there's more than one file? < 1289235974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could see how stupid Sgeo's being right now. < 1289235977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, to preserve permissions, etc < 1289235983 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: .tar.gz gives you a hierarchy of files but no random access. .tar gives you random access but no compression. .gz.tar gives you compression and random access. < 1289236017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how is it more than one fil.. oh, all the files in the .tar are gziped, I guess < 1289236020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: truly random-access memory: you ask it for some data, and it gives you a byte back at random and lets you change it < 1289236024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should not take things so literally < 1289236043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, perhaps it's random whether it writes or reads < 1289236071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you could make this into a probabilistic TC system somehow, in the limit; it would be a form of analog storage < 1289236112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: .zip is basically .gz.tar with CRC32 to boot, right? < 1289236113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1289236131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no UNIX file modes and such. < 1289236135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the same algo as .gz? < 1289236137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except in InfoZIP) < 1289236141 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Close enough *shrugs* < 1289236146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1289236184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gzip is "GNU zip", i.e. "like zip but we changed everything so we can make it Free". < 1289236201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was inspired by compress(1) < 1289236205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU zip implements the gzip format. < 1289236209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1289236217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can gzip actually handle multiple files? < 1289236225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps, but I'm fairly sure the zip name is based on PK-ZIP... < 1289236227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not an archival format < 1289236230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PKZIP... < 1289236235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, it's not an archival format < 1289236235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: potentially indirectly, but I agree < 1289236235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1289236248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gzip isn't, it doesn't store multiple files < 1289236252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a compression format < 1289236259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, that's what I thought < 1289236269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a panick attack with the idea that I might have been wrong < 1289236270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, just checked logs; (sorry, I have Sgeo on ignore... and spent 10 seconds trying to reword this sentence so I didn't mention that) < 1289236284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "a; (b)", what odd grammar of me < 1289236309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, some zip algos (including gzip, I think) store the permissions of the file, which is acting like an archival format a bit < 1289236334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, also, why does gzip defy the normal conventions of UNIX programs, and also the normal conventions of GNU programs? < 1289236356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE unX decompressors that destroy the original file. < 1289236356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect to use gzip as "gzip archive.tar -o archive.tar.gz", and still have the original < 1289236356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HATE. < 1289236357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip doesn't store the permissions, it just preserves them. < 1289236363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...??? < 1289236378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *My* favourite archival format is {.ar}^∞. < 1289236384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you gzip foo, foo.gz has the same permissions as foo had. < 1289236390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'll love the syntax for using azip; "azip archive.tar > archive.tar.az" (alternatively "azip < archive.tar > archive.tar.az") < 1289236392 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if those permissions make no sense for the gzipped file. < 1289236401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it stores them inside the file too < 1289236407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have to ask me what {.ar}^∞ is now. < 1289236413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, I guessed < 1289236415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it stores the original filename, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't store the permissions. < 1289236419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursively convert directories to .ar files < 1289236420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's useful for .gz.tar < 1289236436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep! Also, you store a directory list as the file... I'm not sure yet. Either "/" or "[NUL byte]". < 1289236438 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : By default, gzip keeps the original file name and timestamp in the compressed file. These are used when decompressing the file with the -N option. This is useful when < 1289236438 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the compressed file name was truncated or when the time stamp was not preserved after a file transfer. < 1289236451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite a 1-1 conversion, though, because there might be .ar files there already < 1289236454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: These aren't valid paths, so you process it before continuing. (Note: ar(1) fails on this, but eh, you can process it yourself; the format is simple enough.) < 1289236457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ais523: Yep! Also, you store a directory list as the file... I'm not sure yet. Either "/" or "[NUL byte]". < 1289236470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, in every directory, the file "/" in the archive has a list of the directory names, separated by NUL. < 1289236478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you only decompress foo.ar if ar is in that file. < 1289236483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in every .ar, < 1289236485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1289236491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store permissions and file types too, don't you? < 1289236504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: File types? Eh? < 1289236505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, whether the file's regular/socket/symlink, etc < 1289236512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh, who cares about either of those. < 1289236522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for real men, who don't use such silly things. < 1289236529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you couldn't distinguish between a text file saying "/etc/passwd", and a symlink to /etc/passwd < 1289236550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Symlinks not supported! < 1289236563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, but, symlinks! < 1289236572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders about the physical structure of symlinks < 1289236574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symlinks are for the weak. Real men use HARDlinks. ... which also aren't usefully supported. < 1289236594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: they aren't usefully supported by anything other than some of the insane modes of rsync, IIRC < 1289236598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FINE. / can be more complicated. < 1289236612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rsync -H FTW HOORAY < 1289236614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because finding the other end of a hardlink requires brute-forcing with most file systems < 1289236624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yup 8-D < 1289236642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean to support a hardlink? < 1289236660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Firstly, a NUL-separated list of "filename[NUL]X", where X is "s" for socket, and "y" for symlink. Then, a NUL. Then, a NUL-separated list of directory names. < 1289236667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't a hardlink essentially just another name for the same file? So if you include it in an archive, you're just including the file < 1289236668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it means that if you hardlink two files, archive, unarchive elsewhere, the two files will also be hardlinked in the new version < 1289236674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1289236689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, directories aren't a regular file either, so you can merge the two parts of that < 1289236696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in filename[NUL]d for a directory < 1289236707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, good idea < 1289236718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I love how ar is plain text. < 1289236722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The archive entries.) < 1289236725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the man page for ls has a list of the various other things you can put there < 1289236739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, yeah, what does ls show sockets and symlinks as? < 1289236744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :character and block special devices should probably be supported < 1289236747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just copy those indicators. < 1289236883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file type indicators are `/' for directories, `@' for symbolic links, `|' for FIFOs, `=' for sockets, `>' for doors, and nothing for regular files. < 1289236904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the indicators used by ls -F, which has a very old-fashioned look to it < 1289236919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -l uses a completely different style of indicators, which I can't find documented in either man ls or info ls < 1289236932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't know what a door is in that context < 1289236989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking the fact that it's within a certain context out of context < 1289237098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do I care enough to attempt to understand rot13d German? < 1289237160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fvr unora jnuefpurvayvpu avpug traht Fbetsnyg nhs qvrfr orefrgmra... < 1289237169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all < 1289237230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I guessed the last word was "übersetzen" just from the first letter and context < 1289237236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated the rot13 mentally, and I was right < 1289237252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *doors*? :D < 1289237268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, rot13'd German? How the heck does it handle umlauts? < 1289237277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leaves them unchanged < 1289237300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, umlaut on the replaced character? < 1289237304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just literally ü? < 1289237313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ü stays ü < 1289237319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1289237328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because ä would transform to n-umlaut, which doesn't exist < 1289237430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1289237454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I submitted a Slashdot story 5 days ago, still hasn't been accepted or rejeted < 1289237457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rejected < 1289237503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, it went all the way up to yellow, was removed from public view with a copy placed into the queue at the original time it was submitted, and the copy went up to green, so the few people who actually care about Firehose voting presumably liked it < 1289237900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With combining umlauts, x-umlaut exists for any x; that's no reason not to do the swappery. < 1289237929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I let the users pick their own passwords and user names but I warned them with this text. "Your username and password are case sensitive." Then one day someone wanted me to change their user name and password for them. They set them them to... Case and Sensitive! < 1289237932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish official alphabet has an odd number of characters, which makes self-decrypting ROT-n a no-go. :/ < 1289237966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just leave one alone < 1289237987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the gzip file format has support for multi-part things, you could have a multi-file .gz. No-one does, though. < 1289237993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("A gzip file consists of a series of "members" (compressed data sets). The format of each member is specified in the following section. The members simply appear one after another in the file, with no additional information before, between, or after them.") < 1289238015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And each "member" has its own original-filename fields and so on.) < 1289238033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you could use that as a sidechannel to steganograph data into in a normal .gz, couldn't you? < 1289238064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when I came back to Wikipedia after over a year, I noticed that one of the CSD changes was to allow instant deletion of images with data steganographically hidden in them) < 1289238080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, I guess; but it's not a very clever side-channel, it's a bit painfully obvious. I'm sure some tools will complain about "junk", too. < 1289238125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painfully obvious side-channels can be the best ones, sometimes < 1289238147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone made a polyglot between an image format and a compression format by exploiting the fact that one ignored junk at the end, and the other ignored junk at the start < 1289238156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1289238233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'gunzip' seems to just concatenate the uncompressed data together, so it's not a very hidingy with that tool either. < 1289238261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess the manual goes and even says that explicitly. < 1289238293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You may be disappointed to know that I have learned how to craft. < 1289238298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Multiple compressed files can be concatenated. In this case, gunzip will extract all members at once. For example: gzip -c file1 > foo.gz; gzip -c file2 >> foo.gz .. Then gunzip -c foo is equivalent to cat file1 file2 .." < 1289238319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, you could hide data more subtly by splitting a file into lots of pieces, and having the splitpoints encode the data < 1289238346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you could do, though I think you could do the same within a single-member gzip file by manipulating the chunk boundaries. < 1289238359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or block boundaries, I think the spec uses that word. < 1289238476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7z does a bit sillily: http://p.zem.fi/7z-multimember (for context, test.gz was made by gzipping tmp1.txt and tmp2.txt, both of which had one line) < 1289238527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you don't need to follow a link: with the "list" option, it shows info (size/name) for the first member; when uncompressing, it uses the name of the first file but writes contents of both files there. < 1289238559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the file it creates is larger than the size it reports it will create? < 1289238564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1289238576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, dangerous < 1289238587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi", then a billion terabytes of "0" < 1289238593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of zeroes < 1289238640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gzip -l" does the same: it reports the size of the latter file, but decompresses into a bigger file. Not that I think anyone does "gzip -l" ever. < 1289238706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289238718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here who uses Windows: does it use .rar as the default for compressed (zipped) folders nowadays? < 1289238730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I ask someone to compress files for me, they send me .rars for no obvious reason < 1289238733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It doesn't even support .rar. < 1289238734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at work, that is) < 1289238740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .rar is just the ubiquitous Windows compression format. < 1289238740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, strange < 1289238743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they're so popular, then < 1289238750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .zip is the Old Rubbish, .7z is the Obscure Stuff. < 1289238753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed .zip was the ubiquitous Windows compression format < 1289238756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1289238768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Torrents are always in .rars, for instance, when they're in some kind of archive. < 1289238782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason is: (1) Piracy, (2) Software and stuff. < 1289238819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often they're in .rars even when that's totally retarded. < 1289238826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mp4.rar woooooh < 1289238839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes there's .rars within .rars within .rars. < 1289238868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, context for my earlier random quote off Slashdot: someone hacked the UK navy's website via SQL injection < 1289238881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or multi-file split .rars that extricate into a big single-file .rar. < 1289238888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure what is worse. The fact that they fell victim to an SQL injection attack, or the HTML source that is displayed on TFA is badly broken. A "centre" tag? And the closing HTML tag is broken. Someone put up that maintenance page in a mega hurry. < 1289238894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the concept of a tag < 1289238904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wrong on so many levels, well at least two < 1289238930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : centers things only in commonwealth countries. < 1289238950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or multi-file split .rars that extricate into a big single-file .rar. < 1289238952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That contains a .rar. < 1289238973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes it has an .arj. (Okay, so not any more, but still.) < 1289238994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when there were floppies, there used to be floppy-splitted .arj archives around. < 1289239017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since .zip didn't split.) < 1289239028 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289239039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, as Wikipedia says: "Generally ARJ was less popular than PKZIP, but it did enjoy a niche market during the BBS era and in the warez scene. This was largely due to ARJ's creation and handling of multi-volume archives (archives which are split into smaller files which are then suitable for dial-up transfers and floppy distribution) being more robust than PKZIP's." < 1289239047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound oh-so-sophisticated. < 1289239063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that bit doesn't have a [citation needed] tag. < 1289239076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smells like original research to me! < 1289239102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know, you can add one if you like? < 1289239113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tags don't add themselves < 1289239132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like them, I was just expecting one. < 1289239133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although Wikipedia would likely be greatly improved by a bot that went around adding [citation needed] to things at random) < 1289239962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EsoCPU in Minecraft: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=69299 < 1289239968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that esoteric, I guess, but hey, 8 bytes of RAM. < 1289239987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Previously 4) < 1289239994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Oracle are apparently planning to create a paid JVM in addition to the free one < 1289240010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1289240035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are wondering what extra features it will have; my personal guess is that it'll just be bundled with a support contract and some vague enterprisey nonsense ("uptime optimised", etc) and otherwise be identical to the free one < 1289240057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that companies tend to pick the most expensive option, and /especially/ companies that are used to Oracle products < 1289240062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait! "I'm doubling the memory of my CPU to 16 bytes" < 1289240080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sufficient ROM, 16 bytes is actually quite a lto < 1289240081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lot < 1289240093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've written simple games in 16 bytes of RAM before < 1289240099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was about to say "it might get technical updates like GC overhauls faster than the free version", but then realised that Oracle are hardly going to improve the GC. < 1289240107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially as it's already the single best GC ever.) < 1289240127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would impact their hardware sales? < 1289240141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just because Oracle are incompetent < 1289240159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what leads you to that conclusion? < 1289240166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oracle < 1289240188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, PL/SQL is evidence in favour, but I thought they had a reputation for working very well, just requring tens of Oracle consultants all the time and being massively overpriced < 1289240197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Specifically the DB, but also EVERY OTHER THING EVER. < 1289240206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suspect I'm mentally considering the consultants to be part of the program, IRP-style < 1289240215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it works better than any other DB as it's actually intelligent < 1289240219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the DB is supposed to be (a) not all that performant compared to Postgres and the like, and (b) the STUPIDEST PROGRAM EVER. < 1289240280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are other candidates for the title of STUPIDEST PROGRAM EVER < 1289240499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX? < 1289240575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secho? < 1289240602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wrong! secho is BRILLIANT. < 1289240607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, PSOX is far from the most stupid program ever < 1289240611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's misguided, but not stupid < 1289241551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Falcon! < 1289241566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaspora! < 1289241643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH. How is it that people can speak English perfectly and yet are incapable of writing a cogent sentence X_X < 1289241669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ Case in point. < 1289241674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure I'd describe either of those as "stupid" either < 1289241677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> ARGH. How is it that people can speak English perfectly and yet are incapable of writing a cogent sentence X_X < 1289241677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> ^^^ Case in point. < 1289241684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: don't be so hard on yourself. < 1289241698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are the < and > surrounded by tabs? < 1289241704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in tab < tab Gregor tab > tab < 1289241709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because xchat copies the blueness of Gregor as mirc colours because it's stupid < 1289241716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also [000F] after the last tab < 1289241717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab means blue? < 1289241720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1289241743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, tab does not mean blue :P < 1289241764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't had xchat copy any strange tabs in. < 1289241773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same 'ere. < 1289241775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weirdiey. < 1289241804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only happens sometimes. < 1289241807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For god knows what reason. < 1289241839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Weirdiey. ← this was some pasta. It is a bit weird in that it adds the <>s in, they're not in the "timestamp nick|line" sort of format it shows in the screen. < 1289241912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it does that. < 1289242749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LOral USA Fellowships For Women" < 1289242772 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "respectable scientist", I then immediately think "L'Oral" < 1289242779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1289242788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I2KnFx-kb4 < 1289242793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Very relevant. < 1289242798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very at work. < 1289242807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Very shut up :P < 1289242818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Very your MOM. < 1289242831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, no insult chains in two channels at once < 1289242842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Very INSULT < 1289242857 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-55.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1289243195 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289243539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dcook.org/gobet/ < 1289243559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go match: John Trump (yes, the binary lambda calculus) vs. COMPUTER < 1289243572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010, $1000 bet :P < 1289243594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In early 2006 MCTS (Monte Carlo Tree Search [7]) started being used to make strong 9x9 programs. The idea was crazy - have the computer play out random games, play out a lot of them, and choose the move leading to the position where randomness wins more. I would still say it is crazy, except for the inescapable fact that it works." < 1289244154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description sounds a bit simplificationary: I don't think they usually play the simulated games completely randomly. < 1289244183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but still. < 1289244314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it sounds crazy when elaborated. "For each move, we sample out different alternative futures of how the game could go from there, and choose the move which leads to victory more often" vs. "DURR make random moves DURR". < 1289244347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SIMPLIFICATIONS ARE EVIL < 1289244427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's basically a normal alpha-beta search, except pruning at random < 1289244441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suppose is one way to look to a large depth quickly < 1289244475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welll... usually they do play one game to the very end, which means no guesswork with position-evaluation heuristics. < 1289244586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's an intriguing idae < 1289244587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ida < 1289244589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1289244600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike most computers, it seems like it's really good at strategy yet bad at tactics < 1289244606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's been at least one monte-carloish contestant in that AI competition I harp about year after year. I really should tag up some meta about the participants so I could look for these things, now I just have piles of messy .pdf results. < 1289244626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we need an equivalent of indent(1) for PDFs < 1289244741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for p in *.pdf; do pdftotext $p -; done | grep -i monte" reveals just two reports (in 2010) who mention Monte Carlo approach in the discussion part as an alternative. < 1289244845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible to make infinite memory with minecraft physics? < 1289244866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, is there a block factory < 1289244874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ destructory < 1289244887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't necessarily need a factory if you could do something analog with water levels, or something like that < 1289244912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all you need is a stack or line of blocks you can grow infinitely < 1289244923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to work out if Enigma was TC without Lua scripting; I concluded that it wasn't, but only because there was no way to keep a supply of coins handy to feed coinslots < 1289244941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceoni slot whats < 1289244949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd use the remaining duration of the coinslots as a bignum for a Minsky machine, thus getting round the limited storage space of the level) < 1289244956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289244959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only people can create blocks. And the water/lava spread is... wonky, I doubt it's very workable. Some blocks are destroyed by fire/lava, though. < 1289244980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just watching this vid and water doesn't really seem to work < 1289244991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in any of the vids < 1289244991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"> I hope this will Go well for the computer. < 1289244991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally hope not. There ought to be a few things that humans do that computers can not do. < 1289244991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt pretty bad when Kasparov lost to the IBM computer." < 1289244992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking luddites. < 1289244998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's different in different versions, and really pretty wonky in the latest too. < 1289244999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's TC if you allow arbitrary Lua scripting (notwithstanding the risk of the computer running out of memory) < 1289245019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still feel sorry for the game designers < 1289245033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BUT DUDE ARIMAA IS LIKE SO UN COMPUTERABLEEEE < 1289245037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if computers will ever beat humans at Arimaa (a chess-like game designed specifically to be hard for AIs to play)? < 1289245039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why we PATENTED it. < 1289245044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, snap < 1289245047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Protip: Arimaa is 99.999999999999999999% marketing. < 1289245052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And stupid copyright policies. < 1289245060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly < 1289245063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (You can't make a program to play Arimaa, I think. Or was it that you can't sell one?) < 1289245066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie knows the gory details. < 1289245078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can memorise something, like the rules of Arimaa, it should probably be uncopyrightable < 1289245081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: opinion, not law) < 1289245115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it designed by? < 1289245138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was very strange. I think the designer has had some "oh I want to let SCIENCE use this thing" notions when writing the license, but had no clue how to actually do that. < 1289245138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Most things should be uncopyrightable. :) < 1289245156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: screwed-up custom license? < 1289245158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yse < 1289245161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1289245161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but if you can memorise something, like the rules of Arimaa, it should probably be uncopyrightable < 1289245175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like the idea of making a board game's rules so complex that you can't memorise them, just so it can be copyrighted. < 1289245184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18xx < 1289245187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I remember the row about the JSON license < 1289245191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a thousand special cases for one scenario that almost never happens, and it's almost always one of three outcomes. < 1289245198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's MIT with an extra condition: "please use this software for good, not evil" < 1289245204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Educational, research or personal use or distribution: For this category there is basically no restrictions on the use or distribution of Arimaa related products or services." And then in the list of examples what you can do: < 1289245210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IBM got a license saying they could use the software for Evil, too. :-) < 1289245217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? that's hilarious < 1289245220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is great (although I agree that the license is stupid and IBM did the right thing). < 1289245222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I just looked for "1835 (board game)" on Wikipedia and got "Blood-vomiting game" < 1289245225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those silly Japanese. < 1289245225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Development of Arimaa related software for educational, research or personal use. However you may not hire, contract or commision someone else to develop the software; may not sell the software or release the software publicly in any form (source code or executable)." < 1289245234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, technically they got it under the MIT license, I think. < 1289245236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how that's "basically no restrictions". < 1289245248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's more amusing saying that they got a license that permitted them to use it for Evil, too. < 1289245270 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18XX_games <-- board game with rules so complicated you can't memoriZe them. < 1289245277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there really aren't any real conditions: it's just "basically no restrictions" and a very non-exhaustive list of things you might do, and then that inscrutable "wahh if you make software you can't give it to anyone" thing. < 1289245288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What @ that naming scheme. Bizarre. < 1289245294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it sort of makes me think if it's been added there to make it slower for computer programs to get better at the game. < 1289245309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The original games were all named after some year in the 19th century :P < 1289245316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but still. < 1289245325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Arimaa has so far proven to be more difficult for artificial intelligences to play than chess." -- Wikipedia; I think what it means to say is "nobody competent enough has bothered to". < 1289245333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, for Arimaa's latest yearly challenge: "In 2010, Mattias Hultgren's bot Marwin edged out Clueless in the computer championship. In the Challenge match Marwin became the first bot to win two out of three games against a single human defender, and also the first bot to win three of the nine games overall." < 1289245340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arimaa pieces are hard to distinguish for me. < 1289245346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the human players aren't probably exactly as serious about it as Chess/Go players. < 1289245364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa#Computer_performance tl;dr Brute forcing is hard! ZOMG! < 1289245378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, it should just use numbers < 1289245388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mathematician! < 1289245392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember elephant > camel > horse > dog > cat > rabbit is the hardest part of the game < 1289245421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Really? "Bigger-than" over mammals is too hard for you? < 1289245426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Top chess programs use brute-force searching" < 1289245432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer pessimizations have been made pretty much with existing chess-playing techniques in mind. < 1289245451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cats are larger than rabbits? < 1289245451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's irritating... < 1289245455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Umm... yes. < 1289245455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: For smart enough values of brute. < 1289245456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are. < 1289245460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I don't see rabbits very often < 1289245461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By a big margin. < 1289245471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I say this as someone who owns both a small and a big rabbit :P < 1289245481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And has, in fact, seen and owned cats in my time.) < 1289245491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wild rabbits, still smaller. < 1289245495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbits can be bigger too < 1289245495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you strike me as sorr of the person who /would/ own multiple sizes of rabbit just to be able to compare them < 1289245502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I can say with certainty that though cats and rabbits share a size range, cats are on average larger. < 1289245505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is now officially my reason. < 1289245511 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Same is true of cats and dogs, so that's not much of an argument :P < 1289245515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what Gregor said < 1289245553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as the sort of person < 1289245570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Domestic cats are similar in size to the other members of the genus Felis, typically weighing between 4 kilograms (8 lb 13 oz) and 5 kilograms (11 lb 0 oz). -- The smallest adult cat ever officially recorded weighed around 1.36 kilograms (3 lb)." -- "[Rabbits'] size can range anywhere from 20 cm (8 in) in length and 0.4 kg in weight to 50 cm (20 in) and more than 2 kg." < 1289245574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very much of overlap there. < 1289245577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but (|rabbits > cats|/(|rabbits|*|cats)) > (|cats > dogs|/(|cats|*|dogs|)). < 1289245586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Er, without the *|cats|. < 1289245589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*|cats|), also. < 1289245589 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tl;dr < 1289245618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: x = percentage of rabbits that are bigger than the average-sized cat. y = percentage of cats that are bigger than the average-sized dog. < 1289245623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: x >> y < 1289245625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that an attempt at a famous equality? < 1289245629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inequality? < 1289245636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nope. What does it look like to you? < 1289245637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my youth is scarred from having to memorise the things < 1289245643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks vaguely like one of them < 1289245652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1289245657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I mean in general < 1289245665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous inequalities all look much the same < 1289245841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/cats-vs-rabbits < 1289245857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I got the < upside down! < 1289245875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't an upside-down < a (sum x in cats : size(x)) / |cats|}| > |{x : x in cats, size(x) > (sum x in dogs : size(x)) / |dogs|}|. < 1289246072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off/foo is an interesting typo suggestion < 1289246123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love IRC for its ability to explode an offhand comment into a full scientific investigation < 1289246180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't even bother reading it; I wasn't yet in the whole rabbits-vs.-cats vs. cats-vs.-dogs mess. < 1289246207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metavs. < 1289246222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha does not have the average cat size in it. < 1289246224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappointed. < 1289246228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming "size" is referring to species data extras | Use as referring to administrative divisions instead < 1289246249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming length | Use height or [more | v] instead. More = maximum recorded trunk diameter, or weight. < 1289246257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum recorded trunk diameter of a cat: 0! < 1289246262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Last line my own speculation.) < 1289246279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say the maximum size cat is, then, if the average size cat isn't listed? < 1289246296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Note that it does have photoreceptors/square millimeter stats for cats. < 1289246311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And olfactory epithelium surface area. < 1289246336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (data not available) < 1289246350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so we know how dense the photoreceptors are on cats, but not how large they are? < 1289246357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! < 1289246360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha reminds me of mathematica, awesome but only for things they thought of < 1289246376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's actually useful for basic algebra/calculus data-munging. < 1289246382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that you don't have to start up Mathematica. < 1289246394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it's free and all.) < 1289246408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if I write ungrammatically "volume of cat", it goes "Input interpretation: Caterpillar | volume" and the result is "2.981 million shares". < 1289246412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember which term in the ToS I disagreed with < 1289246414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: X-D < 1289246417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the one that claims it's a contract < 1289246419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: age limit? no bots? < 1289246442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the age limit is ridiculous, also self-defeating < 1289246469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you think about it, they're claiming in the contract a) the ToS are a contract, b) minors aren't allowed to use the site because they can't agree to contracts < 1289246472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being corrupted by the evil pornographic Wolfram Alpha data. < 1289246486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) is obviously not enforced on minors, due to being in a contract they can't legally agree to < 1289246493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289246496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1289246499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that's the argument for (b)? < 1289246502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just "NO UNDER 18S K" < 1289246510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not sure, it's a memory < 1289246519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sort of thing I might plausibly misremember < 1289246534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can check if you like, IIRC (b) was spelled out in the ToS itself < 1289246553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[on The Art of Unix Programming] "Yeah, there's a reason nobody likes that crap. A book on unix programming by a man who knows neither unix nor programming leaves a lot to be desired." < 1289246577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I read the UNIX-HATERS HANDBOOK btw (as it's UNIX, I assume it's case-sensitive) < 1289246582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't particularly impressed with it < 1289246608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly, beause it's dated in that many of the things that it claimed were outdated actually are outdated, as in not even used in UNIX any more < 1289246760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many of the complaints are still true, though < 1289246763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the general complaints < 1289246908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the email in the preface is the best, though, I think < 1289246915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the fifth day I’ve used a Sun. Coincidentally, it’s also the fifth < 1289246915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time my Emacs has given up the ghost. So I think I’m getting a feel < 1289246915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what’s good about Suns." < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Another nice thing about Suns is their simplicity. You know how a < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LispM is always jumping into that awful, hairy debugger with the < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing backtrace display, and expecting you to tell it how to pro- < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceed? Well, Suns ALWAYS know how to proceed. They dump a < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core file and kill the offending process. What could be easier? If < 1289246934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there’s a window involved, it closes right up. (Did I feel a draft?) < 1289246937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This simplicity greatly decreases debugging time because you imme- < 1289246939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diately give up all hope of finding the problem, and just restart from < 1289246941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the beginning whatever complex task you were up to. In fact, at this < 1289246943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point, you can just boot. Go ahead, it’s fast!") < 1289246945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ possibly my favourite paragraph < 1289246996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with the typical quality of today's programs, effectively running them all under a debugger all the time would make your life unusable with really-continue commands < 1289247014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it worked on the lisp machine because it had hardware support < 1289247017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also people weren't idiots < 1289247026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is weren't not a word according to my spell checker? < 1289247039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, a lot of the reasons today's programs suck ARE Unix and Windows < 1289247042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's a bit of a circular counter-argument < 1289247117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I really need to just buy a Lisp Machine some day. Shipping from Virginia can only be hilariously cheap, right? Sigh. < 1289247375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r-- 1 1005728 Jan 7 2007 bzip2-1.0.4.cpio.bz2 < 1289247382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it physically possible to not smile at filenames like that? < 1289247407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I smiled at it < 1289247411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there are people who wouldn't < 1289247414 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12:36:40 probably my own API, posix is overrated | kinder words than I'd choose < 1289247423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "-r--", is this a single-user system? < 1289247434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an httpd < 1289247444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably, it lists whatever permissions apply to the user it's looking at them as < 1289247447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody or www-data or whatever < 1289247462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289247475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's thttpd. < 1289247524 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may hate posix, but I just think it's an API and as all API:s it sucks more or less :) < 1289247564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's more a system specification < 1289247674 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, definitely more than an API ... s/API/whatever it is/g or something < 1289247740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to donate $675 or a fraction thereof for a shell account on a Lisp Machine? :-) < 1289247758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bet I can afford international postage of an object weighing about 400 pounds if I just get the actual cost out of the way! < 1289247832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how heavy can a shell account be? < 1289247853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to assume that misinterpretation was deliberate. :P < 1289247876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The object is the Lisp Machine; DKS says the 36xx machines weigh "up to 400 pounds", but then factor in the monitor, keyboard, etc.) < 1289247894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the newer machines are likely to be cheaper -- and quieter! -- but also more expensive. Perhaps the postage would balance it out. < 1289247915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I've only just worked out your intended interpretation < 1289247923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, all the >36xx machines are either MacIvories or the WTFEXPENSIVE $3,500 XL1200/XL1201 and apparently for that one "shipping can be expensive". < 1289247933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait! < 1289247936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :400 pounds is the maximum weight. < 1289247939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smallest of these machines is the 3620, which is < 1289247939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deskside machine (9 x 18 x 25) that runs off standard 120V power and < 1289247939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weighs about 70 pounds, not including the monitor < 1289247943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*monitor. < 1289247945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more like it... < 1289247956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The standard < 1289247956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cofiguration is 4 MWords with a 760 MB of ESDI disk and a 17" monochrome < 1289247956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console with keyboard and 3-button mouse. You can add another 760 MB disk < 1289247956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an additional $150.]] < 1289247961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four megawords of memory! < 1289247967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[You can add additional memory for $50 per MWord up < 1289247967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a total of 8 MWords. You can upgrade to the 19" premium monochrome < 1289247968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monitor for an additional $300.]] < 1289247989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would a 760 MB disk cost $150 nowadays? < 1289248000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ESDI, SMD or ST506 disks. < 1289248005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard disk doesn't depend on the CPU architecture, surely? < 1289248008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I think they're original Symbolics disks. < 1289248012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1289248015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but: ais523: ESDI, SMD or ST506 disks. < 1289248027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e. pre-SCSI/ATA < 1289248035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is this a company who's come across a load of unused original Lisp machines, and is hanging onto them in the hope that someone will buy them? < 1289248041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this *is* the Lisp Machine company < 1289248042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics < 1289248044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still exists < 1289248052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sells its copious stock of Lisp Machines < 1289248054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, are they still making them, or just selling their extra stock? < 1289248058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just selling < 1289248061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just one guy now < 1289248063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://symbolics-dks.com/ < 1289248075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (he sold symbolics.com to a squatter -- SHAME on him! (oldest .com)) < 1289248084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recently) < 1289248098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, more than one guy -- [[Send bug reports to Kalman Reti at reti@symbolics-dks.com]] < 1289248104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so they still have a Macsyma developer, it seems < 1289248120 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289248124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'd sort-of expect verisign.com to be the oldest, although maybe they got hold of .com after it was created rather than owning it forever < 1289248140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: verisign didn't own .com from the start < 1289248151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here is the list and spec of lisp machines still sold, plus prices, FWIW: http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt < 1289248164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated as of February < 1289248166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting read. < 1289248180 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289248182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This would only be a viable < 1289248182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option, if you live close enough to Washington, DC to pickup the machine.]] < 1289248183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit! < 1289248189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, Washington now?) < 1289248208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, conclusion: only viable option is 3620, which can pack 1.5 gigs of disk, but "barely makes for a useable environment once you load all the software and documentation files" < 1289248228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always just move the documentation to a different system < 1289248241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's needed for the debugger to work < 1289248250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you want it (it's hyperlinked and integrated) < 1289248256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. click a function in Emacs (yes, it had emacs), see the documentation < 1289248258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click around < 1289248266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a large part of the appeal of these systems -- the integration < 1289248270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could it not have Emacs? < 1289248277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but it's not GNU Emacs < 1289248282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's *real* emacs :-) < 1289248282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming it wouldn't be GNU Emacs, but a different dialect) < 1289248285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, snap < 1289248303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, decked-out 3620 with 8 MWords of memory and 1.5 gigs of storage, that's... $1025. < 1289248313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is £634.99. < 1289248325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad, especially if you ditch some of the RAM. < 1289248332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($50 per MWord of RAM) < 1289248353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 8 MB = 1.3 MWord, apparently < 1289248393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear I'm going mad... < 1289248404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a word is... 6 bytes? < 1289248405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1289248406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe less# < 1289248416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why? < 1289248422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/less#/less/ < 1289248433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know. < 1289248440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the real problem would be shipping 70 pounds + keyboard + monitor + CRT monitor internatioanlly! < 1289248443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep deprivation, I suspect. < 1289248443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*internationally! < 1289248447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's got to be hundreds of pounds < 1289248496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how the LoseThos developer linked the last line of his Loper OS blog comment, "I’m funded from social security disability for being insane.", to the LoseThos site. < 1289248498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have contacts in Virginia. < 1289248498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appropriate. < 1289248515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are they willing to pay ridiculous shipping prices? Besides, I think the actual machines are in Washington DC. < 1289248540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I'm assuming you'll give me tonnes of money to pay them off. < 1289248550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just ask for it to be delivered to the US Embassy and pick it up from there; that way, it technically isn't international < 1289248556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or I could just give DKS tons of money for the same effect. < 1289248559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please tell me that works < 1289248567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, but it's a hilarious concept < 1289248579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, but this way I get money! < 1289248639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, Stanislav just bought one of the Tru64 UNIX-based machines and used Open Genera on it < 1289248642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame, my friend! < 1289248643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME! < 1289248657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[My place of business recently purchased a copy of Open Genera from David Schmidt of Symbolics Inc. (http://www.symbolics-dks.com/) and he included this machine as a no-cost extra.]] < 1289248661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Place of business"?) < 1289248705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/bolix1.png ;; whereas this looks like an actual lisp machine to me, although i'm not sure... < 1289248756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Stanislav is still bowing before his Lisp machine overlords before going to sleep every night? < 1289248770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1289249001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then all is right with the world. < 1289249132 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289249169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo, God is in his heaven. < 1289249305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1289249312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, < 1289249313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" as the laws progress they quickly devolve into a delusional hacker wonderland ... A debugger opening on a program error? ... really? I can't think of anything much more use-hostile." < 1289249534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it seems unfortunately likely at this point that Kitten will be linux-based < 1289249551 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nooooo < 1289249559 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be like the others :( < 1289249567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't want to be! But have you *seen* NetBSD? < 1289249576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Especially its hardware support. I do not think it will speak to my network card. < 1289249600 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use *CVS*, I'm not sure it will even speak with this century < 1289249611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289249647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you at least make it a true No-GNU Linux? < 1289249668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is the idea -- well, a consequence of the idea -- although somehow I suspect you sincerely want that. < 1289249685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although I will likely ship GNUmacs, at least, and -- I forget the prominent other piece of GNU-only software. < 1289249703 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc :P < 1289249713 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the other Linux libcs are based on glibc. < 1289249714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: uClibc < 1289249729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is not glibc-based :P < 1289249733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (And works just fine for desktop systems) < 1289249735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... isn't it? < 1289249738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1289249747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Development on uClibc started around 1999.[3] uClibc was mostly written from scratch,[4] but has incorporated code from glibc and other projects.[5] < 1289249754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A few bits are from glibc, but no, it's mostly own code. < 1289249755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much! < 1289249765 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, kitten would be BSD/Linux? < 1289249768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, I think that newlib technically works for Linux. < 1289249772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well. Kitten/Linux. < 1289249776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: BSD-esque, sure. < 1289249779 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Linux bits are lifted from glibc. < 1289249793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can only call it a No-GNU Linux if there are no [L]GPL'd pieces other than the kernel itself :P < 1289249797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But mostly cobblings of software, plus I'm not sure which set of core utilities. < 1289249803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're crazy :P < 1289249807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GPL != GNU < 1289249819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, WRONG: dietlibc. < 1289249822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was kidding :P < 1289249829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dietlibc! POYFECT < 1289249832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (dietlibc is GPL and thus utterly unsuitable for my purpose, as it means I could not distribute binaries, because the author is a fuckwit.) < 1289249845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL is unsuitable is unsuitable for any purpose due to that license, yes :P < 1289249848 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1289249850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dietlibc ... < 1289249858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I stand by my original statement :P < 1289250000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Best sentence ever :P < 1289250010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a real shame because dietlibc is *perfect* code. < 1289250011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, right! < 1289250020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But... source-based distro no. < 1289250121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Although it also warns about stdio, which is fucking annoying.) < 1289250130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1289250134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dietlibc, upon linking. < 1289250137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdio/printf/etc. = warning. < 1289250142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because they're big.) < 1289250148 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1289250152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty lameawesome :P < 1289250162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, no true djbite would use them :-) < 1289250166 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawmesome? < 1289250171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Q: GPL sucks! Now I can't compile my BSD programs with the diet libc! < 1289250171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Wrong. You can compile them, and you can use them. You just can't < 1289250171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : redistribute the binaries. If you are a distribution vendor and want < 1289250171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to use the diet libc to make BSD licensed binaries for the install < 1289250171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or rescue floppy which you sell commercially, please talk to me.]] < 1289250177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the install I want to not sell freely... < 1289250219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If I use .xz.tar for Kitten packages, do I have to pay you royalties? < 1289250224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You just have to provide sources secondarily to the install media, which puts the onus of continuing that redistribution on the people who download it :P < 1289250233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I stole it from HP-UX, so, ... yes. < 1289250237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...??? elliott: You just have to provide sources secondarily to the install media, which puts the onus of continuing that redistribution on the people who download it :P < 1289250240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't get it. < 1289250255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The install media can just be downloadable alongside the sources. < 1289250296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, you can't redistribute a BSD-licensed program linked with dietlibc. < 1289250299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's illegal. Full stop. < 1289250333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spite of what that Q&A says, you can, so long as you redistribute the sources too. < 1289250354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...I don't see how that's true at all. < 1289250359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, what awesome things is Kitten going to have? < 1289250408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Simplicity. Speed. No-bullshit administration. Snarky curmudgeonness. Like being in a goddamn time machine and setting it to SANE AD. < 1289250416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also: Lots and lots of breakage when I break stuff! < 1289250437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dude, the GPL is not MS Shared Source. When you want to redistribute something linked to something under the GPL, that just means you have to redistribute the whole thing under the terms of the GPL; that just means including sources. < 1289250452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Isn't this the CLISP bullshit? < 1289250457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If I believe rms, I can't do that. < 1289250475 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you believe the GPL FAQ on gnu.org RIGHT FRIGGIN' NOW, you can. < 1289250500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cool -- I'll go email fefe and tell him, so that he changes the license. < 1289250520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BSD is GPL-//compatible// < 1289250548 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get how you can redistribute BSD stuff under the GPL (which you must if you link it with GPL), without violating the BSD license < 1289250584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Because the BSD license allows you to add further restrictions. < 1289250598 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1289250604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Permission to quote you in lieu of restating what you said to fefe? < 1289250616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's fefe? :P < 1289250710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The writer of CLISP, I assume. < 1289250717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*author < 1289250746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would still mean that the result of combining BSD and GPL code is effectively GPL:d - this may not be acceptable for whatever elliott wants to build using dietlibc < 1289250833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the (only) issue. < 1289250966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1289250969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fefe = dietlibc < 1289250978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289250983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't see how that's an issue; distributing GPL'd binaries is pretty much irrelevant, is it not? < 1289250999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as I have the source to the program -- as BSD -- and the source to dietlibc -- as GPL -- available too. < 1289251003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Permission to quote you in lieu of restating what you said to fefe? < 1289251023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: [[So why another fortune program? Because the BSD one sucks. It needs a separate file and a program called "strfile" to create that said file.]] < 1289251027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, fefe agrees with me. < 1289251030 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it wouldn't be irrelevant for anyone wanting to fork kitten < 1289251035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why? < 1289251059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, tar(1) is so limited. < 1289251065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't run a program for each file it extracts. < 1289251098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they would be forced to release the source < 1289251112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: To...what? < 1289251115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The third-party packages? < 1289251119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are already source-available. < 1289251141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the administration utilities... they'd only have to release the source if they distributed them linked to dietlibc. < 1289251146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they could just use uClibc or something. < 1289251154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, I could just use uClibc :P < 1289251160 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would need to release the source of anything linked to the GPL:d dietlibc, including the "BSD-licensed" parts < 1289251165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1289251166 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or replace dietlibc < 1289251167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --to-command=COMMAND < 1289251167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pipe extracted files to another program < 1289251168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray! < 1289251373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That made me wonder how it passes the file name and other stuff like that, but it seems it's actually the somewhat sensible thing: a pile of TAR_FOO envvars. < 1289251391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Got a list? :P < 1289251402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Also, does it not save the output of the command to the filename?) < 1289251421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --transform, --xform EXPRESSION < 1289251421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : use sed replace EXPRESSION to transform file names < 1289251421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be useful < 1289251501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are the .gz.tars actually called that on HP-UX? < 1289251530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering .xzt and .xtr at this point. :P < 1289251584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAR_{FILENAME,REALNAME,SIZE,GID,GNAME,UID,UNAME,MODE,ATIME,CTIME,MTIME} are the ones that are probably most useful. I don't know what's the difference between REALNAME and FILENAME. < 1289251602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you getting this? Hand-written program? < 1289251609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a real list, I just "tar xf foo.tar --to-command env | grep TAR_" 'd a single-file foo.tar. < 1289251615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289251690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAR_FILENAME < 1289251690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The name of the file. < 1289251690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAR_REALNAME < 1289251690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Name of the file as stored in the archive. < 1289251694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmph, it seems to not bother creating a directory structure or anything if you do that. < 1289251695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows what the difference is. < 1289251697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite irksome. < 1289251708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That last one was from http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/tar/Writing-to-an-External-Program.html ) < 1289251759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will probably (perhaps) get the directories first with TAR_FILETYPE=d, you could mkdir at those times. < 1289251775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Non-regular files (directories, etc.) are ignored when this option is used." < 1289251785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So in fact I can't even extract empty directories like this. < 1289251793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I will just use find(1) after the fact to unxz. < 1289251796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1289251810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. How silley. < 1289251875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that there's TAR_FILETYPE at all if it just does regular files. I guess it could be for future-proofing. < 1289252046 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.180.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289252075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange minecraft sighting: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.31.01.png (yes this was natural...) < 1289252110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, see the other screenshots in that dir too for some weird bugs and some nice scenery < 1289252159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like aliens. < 1289252165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trees sometimes do some weird stuff. < 1289252183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1289252193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess some leaves touched the lava and then that happened < 1289252252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In multiplayer it quite often happens that it gets into some sort of lag w.r.t. retrieving blocks, and then you can see lava-caves. I'm not explaining this very well, but unfortunately I don't have a screenshot. < 1289252291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1289252553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh not floating islands but the largest and most improbable overhang ever < 1289252567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be several chunks alrge < 1289252569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large* < 1289252609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know what the FOV is of minecraft? this might be an interesting application of hugin < 1289252626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think you rotate with no parallax right? < 1289252655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1289252657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1289252661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn there is parallax < 1289252681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rly? < 1289252696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes just checked very close and very far objects < 1289252710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the camera is slightly in front of the rotation point I think < 1289252794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/minecraft-hugin.jpg -- made this earlier. < 1289252842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HFOV on my system is something very close to 53.8 degrees, I'd guess: v53.7996384046093, says the optimizer. < 1289252867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite correctly aligned, there were control points in the clouds and whatnot. < 1289252924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen minecraft "movie"-style motion videos without the crosshairs and with programmed-like camera motions; you could probably mess around with the client to get better images. < 1289252931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you already did? hm not many close objects there. < 1289252942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289252946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was just from 16 random cropped screencaps, to see how well it goes. < 1289252954 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289252981 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289253026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stopping the clouds at least would help. Even if you avoid putting control points there, they do move. < 1289253058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was wondering if I should upgrade from my current OpenTTD-themed N900 panorama-background to a minecraft one.) < 1289253089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/08/l-i-woman-dies-after-marrow-donors-refuse-to-show/ < 1289253121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there are caves in these almost-floating-islands < 1289253149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, elliott: new screenshots in http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/ < 1289253393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terrain generator does make some interesting-looking scenery. < 1289253433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it does. Also the straight edges are probably due to borders between old and new generator < 1289253610 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289253702 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-98.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289253771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289253792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow there are caves in these almost-floating-islands < 1289253804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine what a mindfuck it'd be if you found out the ground you started on is actually some huge overhand < 1289253805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overhang < 1289253815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some immensely larger island on top of the actual world < 1289253826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MATRIX < 1289253868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just for the record, current boring background: http://zem.fi/~fis/openttd-bg.png < 1289253923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is more to come < 1289253949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1289253955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh pretty < 1289253964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one waterfall lands on the top of a tree < 1289253995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to get snowfall back in snowy biomes, though. < 1289254002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently there's snow, but if you scoop it up, it's gone. < 1289254006 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289254015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1289254085 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-98.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289254246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reminds me of something. I'm not sure what. < 1289254305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Even when it's not doing floating islands, it doesn't always go for realism: http://zem.fi/~fis/spire.png < 1289254412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1289254546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1289254550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289254572 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: NO U < 1289254592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.14.22.png < 1289254595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i <3 these < 1289254612 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@75-174-222-98.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289254613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.19.57.png this also < 1289254626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I beg you to play in 1366x768 so I can wallpaper :P < 1289254636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thought: screenshots need to be Minecraft-voxel based.) < 1289254651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to upload some more < 1289254656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're mistaken; in http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.31.01.png, those are giant torches! < 1289254660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giant FLOATING torches. < 1289254670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289254682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.39.18.png This is Holland. < 1289254687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are in Holland. < 1289254693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Below sea level) < 1289254697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1289254703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-08_22.41.35.png This isn't an overhang; it's resting on that tree! < 1289254712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For terrain features, you only need the seed and coordinates to regenerate them. I think there are (and/or have-been/were) some features to get the seed out and in. < 1289254736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Apart from all the things that have happened to it since the start... and any changes Vorpal might have made... < 1289254746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the progress of uploading another bunch < 1289254756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Really though, I'd like a replay format for Minecraft; records the seed and all actions taken. < 1289254760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including rotating the camera, I guess.) < 1289254767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1289254786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also as I predicted: net plus on coal < 1289254789 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm Minecraft < 1289254790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly just tcpdump-capture the multiplayer connection stuff. < 1289254794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by about 40 coals < 1289254795 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels good to be a legit owner < 1289254801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is single player < 1289254811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1289254814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploaded another bunch < 1289254824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refresh index and look for different coloured links ;P < 1289254836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vinhboy.com/blog/2010/03/25/how-to-get-free-comcast-internet/ < 1289254838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comcast fail < 1289254848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fizzie ^ < 1289254872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I obtained it from an evil malicious legit owner because I'm horrible and kill kittens regularly. I would like to see Notch starve to death. < 1289254875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: 99% of above line false.) < 1289254885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your upload-place doesn't show visited-links in my firefox, which is a bit strange and annoying. (Or maybe the browser is being snarky.) < 1289254888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is evil and malicious! AND I REFUSE TO STATE THE REASONS < 1289254893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh < 1289254894 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't matter < 1289254895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1289254899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WFM < 1289254911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I placed torches so I could track my path? < 1289254913 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a little tiny feeling of satisfaction of owning my own account < 1289254919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an account, too. :P < 1289254919 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much < 1289254922 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a bit < 1289254926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not Premium. < 1289254927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yet.) < 1289254935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is premium since yesterday < 1289255108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Permission plz? :P < 1289255186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program actually using write(2) instead of stdio. Impressive... < 1289255241 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The .gz.tars are not called .gz.tars on HP-UX, they were just part of the crazy package system, called .pkg or something. < 1289255254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Permission to quote your statements about BSD/GPL to fefe? :P < 1289255272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tell me A) whoTF is fefe and B) how exactly you're going to quote me first. < 1289255280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I told you: fefe is the dietlibc developer. < 1289255282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you multiple times. < 1289255291 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You told me after I was gone :P < 1289255293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, I'll just quote your lines that say "BSD" or "GPL" and not our argument. < 1289255294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid BNC! :P < 1289255299 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289255329 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: plain read/write is much nicer than stdio IMO < 1289255342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should specify some sort of "tar-based certificate private key storage" thing; they could then call those files ".key.tar"s. < 1289255344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Agreed, but... printf, dude. < 1289255356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even need printf really, as long as I have separate functions for the printf formats, I guess. < 1289255358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1289255358 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, printf excluded < 1289255366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: printf is the bloatiest part of stdio :P < 1289255375 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think that grep -E 'Gregor.*(GPL|BSD)' produces a cogent stream of words, I want to see the actual quote(s) you intend to use :P < 1289255381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but yeah, i have never understood why stdio isn't just write() and read() + strlen() :P < 1289255381 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but printf could just as well be mapped to read/write and no-one would notice < 1289255381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: Really though, I'd like a replay format for Minecraft; records the seed and all actions taken. <-- would be huge and slow down things. Especially since I tend to move view a lot to look for minerals < 1289255395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just record those at N fps. < 1289255399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual keypresses and stuff will be tiny. < 1289255406 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except that printf probably makes good use of output buffering that write wouldn't give you < 1289255409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mouse movements < 1289255435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is quite useful < 1289255456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write, read, printf, mmm < 1289255471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 fps of a couple of floating-point camera-position values isn't very many kilobytes/sec even as-is like that. < 1289255520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: The .gz.tars are not called .gz.tars on HP-UX, they were just part of the crazy package system, called .pkg or something. <--- where did we get *.gz.tar!? < 1289255536 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god INFINITE LOOPING CONVERSATION < 1289255542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hah < 1289255552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, please tell me though < 1289255588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you use nice or fast rendering? < 1289255591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: .tar has random access, .gz has compression, .tar.gz sacrifices random access in the name of compression, but you can get nearly the same compression ratio with file-level random access by gzipping files then tarring that. < 1289255595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, I think. < 1289255595 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hence, .gz.tar. < 1289255600 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use fast. < 1289255607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, uh... .zip? < 1289255613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Alpha multiplayer protocol sends a 9-byte (float, float, bool) packet every time you turn your head. (Don't quite know how often.) < 1289255620 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one iffy part of read/write is that they may randomly decide to do only part of the buffer because it's convenient or because the system call was "interrupted" (well, for the "traditional" variants of read/write at least) < 1289255621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, .zip or .7z is better, but they're so WINDOWSY :P < 1289255628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use fast, anything else is too slow for me < 1289255637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hah < 1289255639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Nobody actually does that :P < 1289255650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrong < 1289255657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mostly for sockets < 1289255658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In my nice world, nobody actually does that. < 1289255666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for sockets it happens sometimes < 1289255666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In my nice world, nobody actually does sockets X-P < 1289255673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1289255686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mostly because kernel buffer is full though < 1289255697 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do run into the partial read/write even on sensible modern systems like linux < 1289255721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: [[[on distributing BSD-licensed programs linked with the GPL'd dietlibc] < 1289255721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You just have to provide sources secondarily to the install media, which puts the onus of continuing that redistribution on the people who download it :P < 1289255721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: The install media can just be downloadable alongside the sources. < 1289255721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1289255721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Dude, the GPL is not MS Shared Source. When you want to redistribute something linked to something under the GPL, that just means you have to redistribute the whole thing under the terms of the GPL; that just means including sources.]] < 1289255725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is this acceptable to you? < 1289255765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, wait, I forgot I [...] f[...]u[...]ck go[...]at[...]s [...] a lot. < 1289255791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289255794 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289255813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's totally true, I just elided some rubbish! < 1289255820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1289255827 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I get around to implementing file I/O I will just make my kernel do the whole operation except when it encounters an error or if non-blocking IO is explicitly enabled < 1289255831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Add "in this case" after "GPL;" and before "that", and that's fine. < 1289255834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: < 1289255835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define writes(fd,s) write(fd, s, sizeof(s)) < 1289255835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define writev(fd,s) write(fd, s, strlen(s)) < 1289255842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You don't need files! :-) < 1289255847 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289255870 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, did you swap writes and writev there? < 1289255874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure. Can I also remove "elliott:" and "Dude,"? < 1289255875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nope < 1289255879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: writes writes a constant string < 1289255881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please :P < 1289255882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which sizeof(s) is the length < 1289255887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writev writes a variable length string < 1289255895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which strlen(s) is the length (and sizeof == sizeof(char *)) < 1289255896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't writev to do scatter-io? < 1289255903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, writev exists? < 1289255904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : readv, writev - read or write data into multiple buffers < 1289255905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh :P < 1289255906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1289255908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not mean it to. < 1289255909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is awesome :P < 1289255910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it < 1289255916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some high performance network stuff < 1289255916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it *writevs or something. < 1289255933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about ":P"? You want that removed too, Mr. Uptight? :-P < 1289255935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't see how that's a problem with read/write as opposed to fread/fwrite; fread is allowed to return partial results too if the underlying read gets interrupted. (It's specified in terms of fgetc, and fgetc may return with errno=EINTR.) < 1289255943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, :P is my signature :P < 1289255957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, no, it's mine, I have :P on almost every line :P < 1289255968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quick, SQL our logs; :Ps/msgs of both of us, who has more? < 1289255974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Gregor so do I :P < 1289255984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't count as a person. < 1289256007 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the problem I have with fread is that fread is somehow supposed to be "higher" level - but it doesn't actually provide any useful abstraction over plain read < 1289256011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently I do. < 1289256013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huzzah! < 1289256017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey you! [ACTIVATE MINECRAFT_TROJAN] < 1289256022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1289256049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How would you like to be referred to? "Associate"? "Cow-orker"? "Fiancée"? "Lord"? "Murderer"? "Mother of my son"? < 1289256068 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, and I meant that as a generic thing that is iffy with read/write without considering fread/fwrite at all < 1289256074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Guy on IRC" < 1289256083 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289256098 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't quite aware that fread/fwrite were allowed to do that except (obviously) on EOF < 1289256189 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this almost makes me want a pet antelope: http://www.google.se/images?q=royal+antelope < 1289256189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I already mentioned it was on IRC :P < 1289256214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Stepson"? < 1289256227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Stepdaughter"? < 1289256245 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Butler"? < 1289256288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll just avoid referring to you at all. < 1289256292 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of butlers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPVcxy1zreA :) < 1289256293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ("Negro"?) < 1289256364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Kay, emailed :P. < 1289256367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1289256396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Gregor http://sprunge.us/cTEd < 1289256400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your :P-factor is .022655 (7003/309109) while Gregor's is .132536 (6265/47270), sorry. (These numbers have a significant margin of error, they were quite quick-and-dirty, but anyway.) < 1289256408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1289256413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289256417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/O$/O :P/ :P < 1289256429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ha! < 1289256431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I STILL WIN ON ABSOLUTE COUNT < 1289256433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOVE OVER GREGOR < 1289256446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you give me the query and I can do them on the nick merged table? < 1289256449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hey, zuff is me too. < 1289256458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :P < 1289256458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1289256464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1289256486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289256508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then http://sprunge.us/bORK < 1289256511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I did some hand-made nick-merging there: http://p.zem.fi/ymnz -- and I counted "%:P%", not just end-of-line; and I counted the factors manually out of those two numbers. < 1289256521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%:P% does not count. < 1289256524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the termination that matters. < 1289256532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now divide by total messages :P < 1289256544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: YOUR MERGE IS WOEFULLY INADEQUATE < 1289256546 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, tusho was also elliott? < 1289256548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many billions of nicks. < 1289256550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Err, yes :P < 1289256556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude... you forgot "alise". < 1289256560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pretty big omission there :P < 1289256567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'M ALSO EHIRD < 1289256570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you *sure* that " %:P% does not count." ? < 1289256579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1289256581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor will agree < 1289256586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: figured that from elliott matching the first name of ehird < 1289256604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well bad for you. In absolute number that increases your lead even more < 1289256605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, right. You should stop with all that nick-changing. The automagical regexp-remapping I have only works for the Python log-plots, I don't have a messy sqlite view like that. < 1289256674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: RELATIVISE < 1289256685 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I ever talked to tusho, but I remember the nick < 1289256703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I am ehird, tusho, alise, zuff, estoppel, ... :P < 1289256729 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"estoppel", hmm, vague recollection there < 1289256741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, working on it < 1289256744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't that easy < 1289256755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I was estoppel for all of a few days :P < 1289256758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want to write the INNER JOIN? < 1289256766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope. < 1289256772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then don't complain < 1289256778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Moan moan moan. < 1289256792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need any joins, just two subqueries and then a / on them. < 1289256794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't do it < 1289256796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: WE SHOULD WRITE NONSTD-IO!!11127238947293487234 < 1289256801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hum < 1289256805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BUT SPEED :P < 1289256807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Isn't that obvious?) < 1289256810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does SQL taint minds so?) < 1289256820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Alternatively, just do it like in http://p.zem.fi/ymnz and do the single division manually. < 1289256834 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230231150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1289256838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That one gives you "is-:P" and "is-not-:P" counts for one nick. < 1289256876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, unless you want to sort by the normalized :P ratios; that's trickier. But here you just needed the numbers for elliott and Gregor. < 1289256949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick -- favourite libc/POSIX function. Name it! < 1289256959 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289256995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select a.nick as nick, b.cnt / a.total as ratio from (select nick, count(*) as total from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) group by nick) as a, (select nick as nick,count(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) and body like '%:P%' group by nick) as b WHERE a.nick = b.nick order by ratio desc limit 20; < 1289256997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting... < 1289257005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You are crazy. < 1289257013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That will run on every single nick. < 1289257016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? I dropped the inner join < 1289257019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and correct, it will < 1289257023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1289257029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1289257032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got integer division < 1289257034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1289257036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1289257050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you get non-integer division? < 1289257084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "case body like '%:P%' when 1 then 1 else 0 end" < 1289257090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Couldn't you do int(bool) or something? < 1289257096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289257097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::real < 1289257098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1289257104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ?? < 1289257117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, arvid=> select a.nick as nick, b.cnt::real / a.total::real as ratio from (select nick, count(*) as total from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) group by nick) as a, (select nick as nick,count(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) and body like '%:P%' group by nick) as b WHERE a.nick = b.nick order by ratio desc limit 20; < 1289257119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work < 1289257119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also +0.0 works. < 1289257129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is postgresql specific syntax I think < 1289257138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the joined version, here's it in sqlite: < 1289257145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are not in the top 20 < 1289257147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite> select nick, (p.pcnt+0.0)/np.cnt as pf from (select nick, count(*) as pcnt from logs where type = 0 and body like '%:P' group by nick) as p natural join (select nick, count(*) as cnt from logs where type = 0 group by nick) as np order by pf desc limit 20; < 1289257147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD|1.0 < 1289257147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs42|1.0 < 1289257147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L__|1.0 < 1289257148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_|1.0 < 1289257150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Svenstaro|0.666666666666667 < 1289257152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood2|0.5 < 1289257162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, AMD? < 1289257164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that < 1289257165 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257165 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think ordering by absolutes is the best X__X < 1289257169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1289257170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1289257171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just displaying the ratio. < 1289257188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Filtering with number-of-lines is good enough. Like this: < 1289257194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite> select nick, (p.pcnt+0.0)/np.cnt as pf from (select nick, count(*) as pcnt from logs where type = 0 and body like '%:P' group by nick) as p natural join (select nick, count(*) as cnt from logs where type = 0 group by nick) as np where np.cnt > 10000 order by pf desc limit 20; < 1289257194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR|0.118136747077105 < 1289257194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`|0.0351198287174529 < 1289257194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive|0.0350286077558805 < 1289257195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq|0.0294485036190346 < 1289257195 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257195 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho|0.0246700781039591 < 1289257200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just run that in the nick-merged table. < 1289257203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Run that on the merged one kthx :P < 1289257221 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257221 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done sebbu < 1289257242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different column names < 1289257247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey -- I think BSD tar doesn't accept options without - in front of them. < 1289257266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it needs nick, body and type, where type = 0 tests for msg-ness. < 1289257280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1289257284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least not with NetBSD. < 1289257287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select * from (select a.nick as nick, b.cnt as cnt, b.cnt::real / a.total::real as ratio from (select nick, count(*) as total from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) group by nick) as a, (select nick as nick,count(*) as cnt from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) and body like '%:P%' group by nick) as b WHERE a.nick = b.nick order by b.cnt desc limit 20) as foo order by foo.ratio; < 1289257290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh < 1289257294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this monster < 1289257307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're doing %:P% there again. < 1289257311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gah < 1289257323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1289257329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regexp matching isn't sh-portable, right? < 1289257336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1289257346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. regexp matching might not work in non-bash shells. < 1289257347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean [[ =~ ]] ? < 1289257347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ksh < 1289257354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that is bash specific < 1289257357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1289257363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just |grep < 1289257365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(echo|grep) < 1289257372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sprunge.us/eMRN < 1289257374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ^ < 1289257383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waity < 1289257386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait* < 1289257389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... < 1289257389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that order the wrong way? < 1289257392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P < 1289257399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1289257404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, JUST READ IT BOTTOM UP! < 1289257413 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257416 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Please tell me that my number of %:P messages exceeds Gregor's number of total messages. < 1289257427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, fizzie measured both, didn't he? < 1289257438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1289257442 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257442 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could calculate the total number from the ratio... < 1289257461 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 8947*0.03 looks like a lot less than 6652 < 1289257469 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257469 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.02 < 1289257470 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay other way around: http://sprunge.us/TJgX < 1289257497 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257497 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I do different nick merging < 1289257513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of Gregor.* -> Gregor < 1289257520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he had so many nicks < 1289257522 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257522 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have +o can you ban sebbu for now so he stops this spam? < 1289257552 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257553 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257580 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257581 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuyutjyyj_qwert, whatever his nick is, did it yesterday too :P < 1289257589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, night before,r eally < 1289257589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, dumped the view: http://sprunge.us/WGYW < 1289257596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I wasn't here then < 1289257602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't know about it < 1289257610 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257610 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um, you don't have estoppel. < 1289257624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or zuff. < 1289257636 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o fizzie < 1289257639 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289257639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1289257640 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1289257641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old view < 1289257643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1289257646 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's an SQL query, as opposed to something actually useful for me < 1289257648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't refresh window < 1289257649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b sebbu!*@* < 1289257661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OP ME < 1289257663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1289257664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long should I keep that thing up? A few minutes? Will it stop autojoining then? < 1289257686 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that any of this is "useful" to begin with, but the results I can at least read :) < 1289257690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here: http://sprunge.us/BaGc < 1289257693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what it is < 1289257693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you op me I'll sort it out for you. < 1289257705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, unlikely to help since it is auto quitting < 1289257709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe worth a try < 1289257729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, sql query is all you get < 1289257742 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU, I'm leaving < 1289257743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll -- not now, but later -- have that Python script push in merged nicks to another table. It's not as elegant as a modifiable view, maybe, but might be fastener. < 1289257749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hah < 1289257750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you op me I'll sort it out for you!1121212121111 < 1289257754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO < 1289257759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHA! < 1289257773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1289257790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should maybe have added the olsner thing. < 1289257793 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256| olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1289257796 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1289257800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote DAMN YOU, I'm leaving olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257801 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :257| DAMN YOU, I'm leaving olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your revert failed < 1289257811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the numbers < 1289257815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now sort it out < 1289257815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 256 < 1289257816 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256| olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! < 1289257818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no u < 1289257852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pittance of, uh, hugs, to anyone who writes xzt(1). < 1289257869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xzt? < 1289257871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(find -type d -exec xz '{}' \; + tar, and the reverse of that) < 1289257878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: .xzt = .xz.tar, except not confusingly-named if taken literally. < 1289257879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1289257882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also more 8.3 compatible.) < 1289257891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1289257893 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like... tar with compression on the inside instead of the outside? < 1289257901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes, as discussed 89573495834734589 times with Gregor. < 1289257914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen that < 1289257917 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't listening then! < 1289257918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You can see the file structure, and only decompress some files if you want to, and the like. < 1289257925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .zip.tar.bz2 inside a tarball < 1289257926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious < 1289257928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And the compression lost is roughly zero, since tars hardly have much overhead :P < 1289257930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously* < 1289257938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, not seriously :P < 1289257947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Really?) < 1289257949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was something from Xilinx < 1289257955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well That Explains It < 1289257957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FPGA makers < 1289257964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know who they are < 1289257968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it does. ais would not be surprised < 1289257972 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? I always thought of tar as having massive overhead < 1289257979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overhead is not why it loses in compression ratios: not being able to compress across files is. < 1289257986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Try it for yourself (say, the Linux kernel). < 1289258000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think the outer tar was not compressed. But it was made without an index... < 1289258005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it was around 3 GB < 1289258005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, yes; obviously, the Ideal Format would handle that, too, but -- hey, zip and rar do it. < 1289258009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're not exactly unpopular. < 1289258026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to do the kernel (with bz2, so it's fair) to compare. < 1289258057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not xz outside and xz inside? < 1289258073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel outside and Intel inside. < 1289258076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That would be immensely pointless and overhead-inducing :P < 1289258086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if the noise is still there. < 1289258088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not at the same time duh < 1289258092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant to compare the sizes < 1289258096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of tar.xz < 1289258100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and .xz.tar < 1289258105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b Sebbu!*@* < 1289258109 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember which block size tar uses, but it pads to even blocks and stuff, which seems like something you might want to skip if you don't compress on the ourside < 1289258133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, *ouch* < 1289258139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ...that's beyond stupid. < 1289258145 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1289258149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have an idea! < 1289258153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it isn't. zip does that by default too < 1289258154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: LET'S JUST USE 7ZIP. < 1289258164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or used to < 1289258170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/ < 1289258185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, random seeking is not important in the kernel though < 1289258187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open format, portable compressor. < 1289258188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Booyah. < 1289258192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but it's a matter of principle :P < 1289258196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, afaik 7zip is perfectly sensible < 1289258219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible, and therefore off-topic for us. < 1289258238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope .7z stores file permissions and symlinks and the like. < 1289258243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does, fuck it, I'm just going to use it forever. < 1289258271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_compression < 1289258284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: LOL 7ZIP IS LIKE .TAR.FOO < 1289258288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flail :P < 1289258320 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: istr that's an option when you create the archive, if you want it solid or not < 1289258338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it, we'll do it live. < 1289258349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quick -- favourite libc/POSIX function. Name it! < 1289258352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficient response :P < 1289258353 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*Support for* solid compression" emphasis mine < 1289258378 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: "The 7z format does not store UNIX owner/group permissions" < 1289258419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mmap() < 1289258426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...wh...you stole mine. < 1289258426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You can both toggle it on/off as well as set the maximum block size when it's on. < 1289258430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to pull out mmap() at the end. < 1289258436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh... what < 1289258442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's my favourite! < 1289258444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So you sort of get the benefits of both.) < 1289258445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The closest thing to orthogonal persistence this side of Torsion! < 1289258447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is mine too < 1289258464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is microoptimising of course ;P (j/k) < 1289258481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a flag which makes it start a new solid block for each new file extension. < 1289258490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1289258492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why < 1289258507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assumption being that you want across-file compression for file format headers and such. < 1289258513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but: "The 7z format does not store UNIX owner/group permissions" <-- nor symlinks? < 1289258521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then not very useful < 1289258537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: squashfs archives < 1289258539 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you bother implementing symlinks I'm pretty sure you'll make space for a few bits of owner/group info too < 1289258542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can use xz iirc < 1289258548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1289258559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are non-solid < 1289258565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also very convenient to use < 1289258573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why convenient? 'Cause you can mount them? < 1289258611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey I put mathematica on one and icc on another, nwn static files on a third. In total I saved over 7 GB on my laptop. :P < 1289258612 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if you can only have exactly one system call, I think you should make it mmap < 1289258627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and yes you can mount them < 1289258633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then out of tree build becomes easy < 1289258637 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1289258644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount gcc.squash gcc-src < 1289258648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir gcc-build < 1289258651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd gcc-build < 1289258660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../gcc-src/configure --whatever < 1289258663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need to write a mount-loopback(1) with FUSE sometime; stupid mount(1) is root-only... < 1289258668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make && make installl < 1289258671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install* < 1289258674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nice idea < 1289258677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how is that easier than just untarring it? < 1289258688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is nicer < 1289258690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mount(8) < 1289258697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why? Saves disk space only? < 1289258701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slower, though... < 1289258701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you don't use up inodes < 1289258711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those scarce inodes :P < 1289258724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that used to be a problem historically < 1289258809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a thing called "mountlo" which I think is a fuse-driven loopback device. < 1289258810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because it was like 16 bit counter and it would overflow.. With serious effects < 1289258814 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or a system call for writing a single byte on some kind of "system command stream" might be another nice single-syscall os < 1289258826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that the autojoin/quit noise did in fact stop. < 1289258832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o fizzie < 1289258839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1289258840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems a bit too easy to just add multiplexing and wrap it in nice libraries so that it isn't esoteric anymore but just slow :/ < 1289258853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed < 1289258896 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing for mmap-only, you'd just use mmio to "call" hundreds of system functions by writing commands into designated pages < 1289258910 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something similar to mmio < 1289258918 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring! < 1289258938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, weird yellow text in minecraft < 1289258947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"happy birthday, ez!" < 1289258952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change either < 1289258964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ez I wonder < 1289258978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch - Minepedia - The Minecraft Wiki! < 1289258978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He lives just outside of Stockholm, Sweden. Notch is 31. He enjoys working on Minecraft. He is engaged to his fiancée, Elin aka "ez"; He is SCUBA certified ... < 1289258989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1289258994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[freenode] -!- There is no such nick ez < 1289259001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody, it seems! < 1289259005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1289259014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Freenode == doesn't exist. < 1289259015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boy this is beyond tedious... < 1289259020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was his real name now again? < 1289259027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some very very generic one iirc < 1289259031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Markus ALEXEJ Persson. < 1289259033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emphasis mine. < 1289259035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALEXEJJJJJ < 1289259039 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ < 1289259047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not very common middle name < 1289259053 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed a few on the end :) < 1289259060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Markus Persson, that is very common < 1289259064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO TEDIOUS < 1289259068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is? < 1289259070 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHAT IS < 1289259084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, beat you to it < 1289259103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DAMN YOU, and this time I'm really leaving! < 1289259115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/minecraft-splash has the regulat splash-texts, though it was extricated from a pre-Halloween Alpha. < 1289259117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1289259127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T E D I O U S < 1289259136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, night < 1289259149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "This text is hard to read if you play the game at the default resolution, but at 1080p it's fine! < 1289259155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vorpal saw that. < 1289259158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Legal in Finland!" < 1289259159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289259171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Legal in Finland? < 1289259172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, most things are illegal here. < 1289259176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, someone better explain that < 1289259197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Now supports ���!"? < 1289259216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "/v/"? < 1289259220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Encoding problem, maybe. < 1289259230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T E D I U M < 1289259235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/v/ could be a image-board thing. < 1289259240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm perhaps < 1289259241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://boards.4chan.org/v/ < 1289259248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fits in with the other surrounding "Woo"s. < 1289259268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just closed browser and opened minecraft, what is it about? < 1289259269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they're all game-related (well, Something Awful only semi-related, but.) < 1289259274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a 4chan board. < 1289259280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes and the topic is? < 1289259291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Vidya"; or, less opaqueley, video games. < 1289259294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*opaquely < 1289259296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1289259296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*opaquely, < 1289259397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current list: http://p.zem.fi/minecraft-splashes-2 < 1289259446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The chars in "now supports" one actually seem to be valid utf-8 for the missing-char glyph in the source .txt, unless I mislooked. < 1289259448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T E D I U M < 1289259486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eple (original edit)!" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBiRcAmmJVY < 1289259492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless that isn't the original edit.) < 1289259495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange thing to exclaim. < 1289259850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dag down < 1289259872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i decided to dig up but ran outta ladders and then i came up and i died. < 1289259952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you dig staircase-style < 1289259954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not vertical < 1289259957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also, classic or alpha? < 1289260041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAR BE ØRJAN < 1289260045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha < 1289260053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dag down staircase < 1289260056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wanted to go straight up < 1289260087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see where i was < 1289260114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was too deep < 1289260142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go staight up with a 4x4 shaft with no ladders by leaving a circular-staircase thing going around and around the shaft. (It's more boring to climb, though.) < 1289260179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W.r.t. ladders, have you noticed that you only need to put those to every other square in order to be able to climb? < 1289260192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 50 % savings right there. < 1289260334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/4x4/3x3/ up there if you prefer. < 1289260337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers forking http://dmr.ath.cx/net/darkhttpd/ and adding CGI/SCGI support < 1289260345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHAR BE ØRJAN < 1289260349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: shell account is gone i would guess < 1289260354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (not in here and email account on the same server is dead) < 1289260367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but he's commented on Gödel's Last Letter and P=NP so he's fine :P < 1289260368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289260370 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289260372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be his ghost though < 1289260687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the happy birthday, ez one is not there? < 1289260698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm nice < 1289260705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you need one at the top square? < 1289260729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, or maybe you can jump. < 1289260737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: obviously i didn't start playing without watching hours of tutorials and reading the wiki for hours first < 1289260759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopo: But of course! < 1289260786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nether is really quite efficient if you only care approximately where you end up