< 1287273616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, link to enhanced cweb? < 1287273659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/cweb/cweb.zip http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/cweb/webmath.zip < 1287273671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(First link is the program itself; second link is the fonts) < 1287273682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, not on gopher? < 1287273733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not yet. The gopher server does not automatically index, I make them manually, so it will take a while. Things are usually found on HTTP first. And then later, on both protocols. < 1287273756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1287273761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Sigh. I am downloading the NetBSD 5.0.2 install ISO, via torrent. < 1287273763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why sigh? < 1287273765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I plan to add it now, just because of reminded < 1287273779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You are expected to complain about version 0.3 of Enhanced CWEB now, so that I can fix it and also answer question, please. < 1287273781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I see < 1287273783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expected by you, maybe. < 1287273803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, some gopher servers does index automatically though < 1287273852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but then you won't get descriptions and stuff. I do have a auto index script for the stuff in textfile/ < 1287273864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The stuff in textfile/ has no descriptions on its menus) < 1287274004 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You talked me into it! Well, not really. < 1287274019 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287274042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have now added it to gopher. It is now available over two protocols < 1287274147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287274171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with catseye about it though < 1287274196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is my intention that most of my stuff will be available over both protocols; however there is some things only useful for one or the other protocol, so I won't make everything listed on both) < 1287274446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you have the same complains about Enhanced CWEB that catseye? But catseye tried only normal CWEB at first? < 1287274602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play solitaire card and win a big spider 2.9 times as big as you and then change their name to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! < 1287274673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AAAAAAAAAA! < 1287274701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which reminds me, it seems like the new neighbors possibly named their dog "Taxi". < 1287274709 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if you don't want to, I do want to. Even trade?) < 1287274825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What have you heard? Have the neighbors told you they named their dog "Taxi"? Is that for normal reason or for confusing reason, or for the other reason? < 1287274847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to respond "even so" but fears that might be considered acceptance of the trade < 1287274865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of their kids shouted that to it < 1287274910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evidence isn't yet very reliable < 1287274972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You cannot accept the trade. There is currently nothing to trade and anyways it is by computer, so we can't. < 1287275010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if someone in near here win the big spider 2.9 times as big as me and change their name to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! then if I win something else as big, it can trade with you if the other thing is the things you wanted. < 1287275019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how goes it < 1287275064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I tried to use Enhanced CWEB but a spider 2.9 times as big as me mauled me. < 1287275070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently bleeding profusely and may die soon. < 1287275073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a refund. < 1287275105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...land arthropods don't get that big, anyway < 1287275139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do in Bosnatia < 1287275163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there was this giant sea scorpion or something in the paleozoic, i recall < 1287275165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry. No refund, since the program doesn't cost any money, therefore the money cannot be refunded. But perhaps be more careful next time, please. < 1287275171 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bit slow < 1287275173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm suing you, then! < 1287275176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: still downloading? < 1287275180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: add some WEB SEEDS < 1287275193 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, downloading is done. backing up still in progress. also noms < 1287275200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also... noms? < 1287275206 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nom nom nom < 1287275218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how's the backup going, i don't want to miss the netbsd action < 1287275268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurypterid < 1287275282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can refund the cost of the bet that you win a big spider, but I cannot refund the cost of the Enhanced CWEB program. Sorry. < 1287275283 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any significant action of netbsd will probably be tomorrow. < 1287275288 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i may test tonight < 1287275301 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(test booting it off the usb stick) < 1287275303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what timezone are you in? < 1287275309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm suing you. < 1287275318 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CDT < 1287275319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: new nightmare < 1287275340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great old nightmares < 1287275346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bst right now??? < 1287275348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1287275368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what local times are you usually doing crazy computer shit (i'm going to see if i'll MISS THE ACTION or not) < 1287275369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last weekend in october hasn't been yet < 1287275380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shouldn't be < 1287275392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it is bst < 1287275393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine, OK, but perhaps I can refund the bet. But you can't sue me for the program; the program is provided you are responsible for your own use. < 1287275399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"12:29am Sunday (BST) - Time in London, United Kingdom" < 1287275406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i saw no such disclaimer < 1287275431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait it doesn't distinguish DST? < 1287275435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287275445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely should still be DST across europe < 1287275447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in britain we call it BST < 1287275450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you didn't look; it is on line seven. < 1287275451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a different system i think < 1287275461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: British Summer Time < 1287275463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what do you call it in winter then? < 1287275467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: normal time? < 1287275467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMT < 1287275472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1287275473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenwich Mean Time < 1287275477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we don't have DST in winter < 1287275481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1287275487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's what you meant < 1287275495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1287275500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *annoyingly* there is no acronym to refer to "whatever it is in britain right now" < 1287275504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so you get to say "British time" or whatever < 1287275511 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have nothing much to do tomorrow. i don't know when i'll get up. with luck, i might be ready to install around noon, but who knows/ < 1287275514 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1287275516 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% It is distributed WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY, express or implied. < 1287275521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hell naw < 1287275529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that's 6am for me here! >_> < 1287275540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: IT IS THEATRE OK < 1287275556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can sue whoever you bet the big spider at. < 1287275557 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'll wait til i see you, then. unless i get bored. < 1287275572 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might try installing something else first if i don't see you. < 1287275578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i will probably be on at 8-9 pm your time :P < 1287275604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: otoh, i will most likely be here at 10/11am your time (4/5am for me) < 1287275625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you are as big as me, send a big spider to me and then I will figure out how much money to refund for that. (Please note this is not a refund for the computer program; but it is still a refund for the same amount of money; so why complain?) < 1287275646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How am I meant to post you a gigantic spider? < 1287275669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Do you have the same complains about Enhanced CWEB that catseye? But catseye tried only normal CWEB at first? <-- so did I < 1287275675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a few weeks ago < 1287275688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1287275722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know how. Perhaps call the service that is specifically for that purpose. < 1287275736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you *sure* you're not on lsd? < 1287275756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I am sure I am not on LSD. I only simulate it. < 1287275765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1287275768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aaah, time zones. How little sense they make. < 1287275769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Constantly. < 1287275785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you talking about one of his games? < 1287275793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, I highly doubt you use GMT. < 1287275796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope. < 1287275800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, we actually do. < 1287275804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not UTC. < 1287275805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch < 1287275807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well. < 1287275817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it is possible, I suppose, that all the GMT clocks secretly count leap seconds. < 1287275827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... You use the mean solar time at the Royal Observatory? < 1287275829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it is *definitely* universally referred to as GMT, no matter what < 1287275834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think elliott is not, but I am talking about one of Damian Yerrick's game, called: Tetanus on Drugs, or, Lockjaw: The Overdose. < 1287275844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok it seems to now be an alias < 1287275847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is a term originally referring to mean solar time at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London. It is arguably the same as Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) and when this is viewed as a time zone the name Greenwich Mean Time is especially used by bodies connected with the United Kingdom, such as the BBC World Service,[1] the Royal Navy, the Met Office and others. < 1287275848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the introduction of UTC on 1 January 1972 Greenwich Mean Time (also known as Zulu time) was the same as Universal Time (UT) which is a standard astronomical concept used in many technical fields. Astronomers no longer use the term "Greenwich Mean Time". < 1287275848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK, GMT is the official time only during winter; during summer British Summer Time is used. GMT is the same as Western European Time.[2] < 1287275850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I see < 1287275884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Greenwich_clock.jpg < 1287275893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXIII, O, I, ... < 1287275898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*..., XXIII, O, I, ... < 1287275906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need to be drunk to play Tetris; the computer can make it drunk for you.) < 1287275913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently, under the Interpretation Act, it is *literally* GMT. < 1287275914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, 5s of seconds? < 1287275915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"British yard" "Two feet" "One foot" "six inches" < 1287275917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"? inches" < 1287275923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[incomprehensible]" < 1287275924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Six < 1287275930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err minutes* < 1287275931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Alright then. < 1287275936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: UTC, you mean? < 1287275938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1287275946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1287275949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, those roman numerals < 1287275951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf < 1287275956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is literally the mean solar time at the Royal Observatory. < 1287275957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's hours < 1287275961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXIII = 23 < 1287275964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:00 < 1287275967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're living in the WET zone < 1287275975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, but *nobody* uses GMT to mean that. < 1287275984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not the BBC, not the Met Office... < 1287276005 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike using roman numbers for 24-hour clock; roman numbers should be used for 12-hour clock. < 1287276006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, timezones actually make a lot of sense in that people want to be awake when it is daylight. But sure you could start using UTC everywhere and then refer to midday as 22:00 and such < 1287276008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But de jure, it is. < 1287276017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: de jure yet even the government ignores it :P < 1287276020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, like the US Constitution! < 1287276022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh a 24h clock < 1287276023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The specific implementations suck. < 1287276029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how so? < 1287276037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are timezones that aren't even UTC+n.5 < 1287276040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one that's like < 1287276043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N hours and 12 minutes off < 1287276044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1287276045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh indeed < 1287276052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China has one timezone all the way < 1287276053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are exceptions though < 1287276054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's like < 1287276056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 billion lightyears long < 1287276057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most are +n < 1287276063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few are +n.5 < 1287276073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes that was one of my ideas too; have no DST or anything like that, just change what is called the first hour of the day at DST, instead of changing what is called eight o'clock < 1287276074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes most countries suck < 1287276076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposal: instead of dividing the globe into discrete sections for timezones < 1287276079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide it continuously < 1287276079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Daylight savings time, being *entirely* arbitrarily drawn, aaand bizarre offsets. < 1287276091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. moving one planck length changes your timezone proportionally < 1287276092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287276099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would be confusing for most people < 1287276102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT AWESOME < 1287276105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could travel in time < 1287276107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by running forwards < 1287276110 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Driving west, your car's clock would slow down < 1287276111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 1 timezone second per second < 1287276112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287276113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay in time < 1287276115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1287276116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Timezones2010.png See, the lines chosen suck. < 1287276121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes yes yes < 1287276122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1287276125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have UTC time and sundial time, if that is necessary. < 1287276125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relativity for the layman < 1287276133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need DST. < 1287276150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what really sucks? < 1287276153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :international waters aren't free. < 1287276156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freedom of the seas my ass < 1287276160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of "international jurisdiction" < 1287276171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do something we think's really horrible in international waters, we'll come and get you just because we can! < 1287276191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that it has nothing to do with the actual solar time in the region, and sometimes doesn't even vaguely correspond to political boundaries. < 1287276209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes spain fails at it < 1287276229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Sweden manages quite okay < 1287276256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why in the *world* is Spain on UTC+1? < 1287276258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck I almost live where it is correct < 1287276261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no clue < 1287276340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new proposal < 1287276348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to live right along the UTC+7 meridian. It's a bit of a rarity for North Americans to live close to the meridian for their time zone... < 1287276348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00 is whenever the sun rises, no matter what :D < 1287276354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59 gets extended until the sun rises < 1287276364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59:129 < 1287276369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine the poles :) < 1287276372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the polish people. < 1287276383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59:123478632478346 < 1287276384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Canada: the UTC+6 meridian happens to be the *border* of the UTC+6 time zone there! < 1287276392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for a decent chunk of it. < 1287276397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's < 1287276407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3,913 millenia < 1287276410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that many seconds :D < 1287276466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are aiming for awkward aren't you? < 1287276472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1287276487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: would fit in nicely with eternal september though < 1287276511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland's UTC+0 but is in the ideal UTC+1 and UTC+2 zones... < 1287276512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just. Gah. < 1287276526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's September 65257, 1993, 11:59:7889231." < 1287276548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and China. Ideal UTC+5 over to ideal UTC+9, but it's all on UTC+8. < 1287276559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait there is one place offset 14? < 1287276562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it < 1287276566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably < 1287276569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick a number, it's there. < 1287276575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how's that backup doing :| you are my entertainment < 1287276578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 14 > 12 though < 1287276580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is weird < 1287276588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1287276589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: UTC+24 < 1287276603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1287276651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually Sweden is on +2 atm, due to DST < 1287276659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Silly. < 1287276663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed < 1287276695 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :p < 1287276708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: HOW IS IT GOIIIING < 1287276720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And God, the US has so many time zones. < 1287276730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists in 11 time zones. < 1287276757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo momma's so fat, she's in 11 different time zones. < 1287276761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simultaneously. < 1287276772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sun never sets on the US empire < 1287276779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait 11? time.gov suggests fewer < 1287276784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 there < 1287276811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nearly < 1287276823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's two US islands without *legally* defined timezones; they thus are defined by nautical time. < 1287276831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: awesome. < 1287276841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baker Island & Howland Island are UTC-12, and Wake Island is UTC+12. < 1287276845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: speaking of nautical lament the nonexistence of the freedom of the seas < 1287276959 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's going. I have backed up my windows partition (with exception of some files in the Windows directory that it hangs on copying. I just decided I do not need to retain my Windows directory. Seems sane enough.) I am now copying over my files from Ubuntu < 1287276971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: not just copying ~? < 1287276985 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of ~, yes. I think that's all < 1287277000 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the whole ubuntu install, that's... no < 1287277024 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for windows, though, you're never really sure where it's saving your stuff) < 1287277097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if i were you i'd put the netbsd manual on another usb stick (assuming you have two usb ports...) < 1287277112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw iirc the netbsd installer cd has no option to go to a console, but ^C does it < 1287277120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the software selection is very limited though, i'd just install it) < 1287277132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: at least the networking stuff was a bit "wut" when i tried in a vm < 1287277166 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this should be ##esoteric < 1287277193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that has been mentioned before. (1) we've been here since december 2002, freenode can go fuck itself, < 1287277204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (2) nobody owns esotericness, so nobody has a real claim to #esoteric, only ##esoteric < 1287277207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't matter < 1287277210 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I OWN ESOTERIC well kind of < 1287277219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since nobody's being, or can possibly be, disadvantaged < 1287277227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah you invented brainfuck < 1287277240 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i chose the word < 1287277251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287277262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you realise that by coming in here and acting all normal you've ruined your deity^Wcelebrity status :) < 1287277276 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was an extremely un-obvious choice < 1287277282 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um... no < 1287277289 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i do not realize that < 1287277302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well at least among the sillier esotericers (i.e. most of us) < 1287277341 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......... < 1287277347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm pretty sure everyone was convinced you had a complete understanding of what the funge-98 specification was meant to say, and there was only one possible interpretation < 1287277349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287277350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. In Alaska, the days between October 6, 1867 and October 18, 1867 never existed. < 1287277354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ONLY WE COULD MEET THE MAN < 1287277360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm exaggerating < 1287277362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop dotting < 1287277380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE DAMN RUSSIANS STOLE THEM < 1287277403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "The British calender act of 1751 / declared the day after Wednesday / September 2nd, 1752 / Would be Thursday, September 14" < 1287277409 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: glad to be of disillusioning service, i guess < 1287277413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calendar < 1287277428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Zf1eyWYFs < 1287277431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : catseye: i'm pretty sure everyone was convinced you had a complete understanding of what the funge-98 specification was meant to say, and there was only one possible interpretation <-- I suspected it was not the whole truth, what with the behaviour of t < 1287277435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the song that quote's from) < 1287277445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US purchase of Alaska became effective October 6, 1867, 24:00:00 local time. In doing so, Alaska switched from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian, *and* went to the other side of the International Date Line. < 1287277460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: julian -> gregorian was the name for that quoted change too < 1287277464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lol @ international date line < 1287277492 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying 14x,xxx files, one hour twenty-eight minutes remaining < 1287277507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it went from Friday to Friday. < 1287277537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287277540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the day after Friday, October 6 was Friday, October 18. < 1287277556 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOUBLE FRIDAY!! < 1287277559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make better lyrics < 1287277561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: all the way across the sky? < 1287277671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Would be Thursday, September 14 / 1752" < 1287277691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Many Eastern Orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar. < 1287277699 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How was 10.10? < 1287277700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the Gregorian was invented by a Catholic Pope. < 1287277716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: not recommended over netbsd, that's for sure. i'm considering installing it myself now < 1287277722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's ports but... urggh < 1287277747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh btw pkg_add doesn't work out of the box in netbsd. you have to set a mirror environment variable. it's explained in the big ol' manual ... you probably know all this, i'm just relaying some issues i had < 1287277751 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm going to need an understudy in case NetBSD gets in a traffic accident < 1287277753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: <3 that < 1287277763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason Protestant countries in Europe were reluctant to switch. < 1287277771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You /could/ install 10.10, but you'd want to start hating it and aiming to replace it quickly. < 1287277776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you become complacent. < 1287277785 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know nothing. But I might be able to use my awesome BSD intuitions developed in previous escapades < 1287277810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "Also, FreeBSD offers a nice alternative interface to NetBSD Manual Pages." < 1287277813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--netbsd.org/docs < 1287277829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Put this on another USB stick: http://netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/netbsd.html < 1287277835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the entire NetBSD guide in one HTML file. < 1287277841 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't OpenBSD man pages the best? < 1287277848 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ports kind of is awful. pkgsrc is kinda sorta ok but also has same root in awful as ports. what pkg manager for Kitten? < 1287277853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: nothing OpenBSD is the best < 1287277856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: pkg(8) < 1287277864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's the bees bollocks. wait... < 1287277870 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHAT UNIX SYSTEM AM I SUPPOSED TO MAN THAT AT < 1287277874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: kitten < 1287277881 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hellfire etc < 1287277897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: btw you have to download pkgsrc in netbsd :D < 1287277899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tarball < 1287277904 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beauty < 1287277912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously recommend downloading that html file. i had quite a few "wtf" moments < 1287277916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it always explained them < 1287277922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... It gets worse. < 1287277925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH NO < 1287277934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They use a *Revised* Julian Calendar. < 1287277934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: pkg(8) is basically the most awesome package manager you can imagine, ever. < 1287277938 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok WHOA < 1287277943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sorry, *many* of them do. < 1287277944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what < 1287277945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xD < 1287277949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome desktop froze for a moment < 1287277958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Move the calendar back 13 days and then use a slightly different leap year rule. < 1287277962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "In 2800 the two calendars will diverge again, though more slowly than the Julian and Gregorian do." < 1287277963 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halfway bwteen two virtual desktops < 1287277966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup. < 1287277968 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was scary < 1287277969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: FREAKY MAN < 1287277981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: totally install xfce next time. or. maybe assemble your own if you're crazy enough < 1287277985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scattered window managers < 1287277991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what WM did you use when you used bsd? < 1287277991 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1287277992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmonad ftw < 1287278002 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I used blackbox most of the time < 1287278007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro was so promising before he discovered all that shitty software everyone loves < 1287278008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ew < 1287278012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can't stand the *boxes < 1287278017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: they're so... "1337 hax0r" < 1287278024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially fluxbox < 1287278035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1287278046 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not something i was fond of, just something that worked < 1287278049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: amend will never forgive you < 1287278059 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you ever finish it, I'm willing to try it < 1287278063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: pekwm is a pretty nice minimalish-but-works-normally WM < 1287278068 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meanwhile, I will be happy powerusing with vim and xmonad < 1287278069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no panel though :P < 1287278074 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i will totally go to a tiling wm if i can < 1287278079 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not < 1287278080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ugh -- you too? < 1287278087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: nice idea in theory. but trust me. they're terribly designed < 1287278088 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiling wms increase efficiency < 1287278091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as simple as that < 1287278094 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try that at work (ON WINDOWS 7 -- it's a blast, man) < 1287278106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're either trolling or stupid enough to think making an assertion like that makes it true without justification < 1287278109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: terribly designed in what sense? < 1287278109 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they CAN SOMETIMES if THINGS WORK < 1287278119 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they DON'T < 1287278124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: modern tiling wms - "Stop wasting time on window management! Waste time pressing our hotkeys instead because it never gets it right the first time." < 1287278131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if you're hardcore try http://www.jfc.org.uk/software/lwm.html < 1287278135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no buttons, but it's cool < 1287278136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used it for a time < 1287278144 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you've make some great assertions without justification. I thought I'd join the party < 1287278159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i was having a conversation with catseye clearly expressing an opinion < 1287278161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I have had no issues getting xmonad to work. I have no experience with other tiling wms. < 1287278163 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just want a billion jillion virtual desktops and intuitive navigation between them and the ability to make some things like chat windows highly notifivisible. < 1287278164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to understand this. < 1287278174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you dislike tiling wms? < 1287278178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lwm has exactly 1 desktop, so :P < 1287278183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:14 < elliott> catseye: nice idea in theory. but trust me. they're terribly designed < 1287278188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no -- my favourite WM is a tiling WM. unfortunately nobody has implemented it yet < 1287278195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "catseye:", "trust me" (i.e. my opinion) < 1287278197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about dwm? < 1287278203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll take it to /msg instead. < 1287278208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can't say suckless software sucks! < 1287278213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dwm is cool, sure, but i wouldn't use it :P < 1287278218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "trust me" does not sound like an opinion. It sounds like "I am right and will not waste time explaining it" < 1287278220 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 minutes left! < 1287278222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dwm is at least saner than most tiling WMs < 1287278222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1287278229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and "literally" often means "NOT LITERALLY AT ALL" < 1287278233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG MODERN ENGLISH SLANG < 1287278234 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, wm "debate" < 1287278236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS IT WHAT IS IT WHAAAAT < 1287278243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean from normal usage < 1287278248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what people use "trust me" to mean < 1287278254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no, it's me mostly agreeing with Vorpal's joke and it's coppro picking stupid nits < 1287278256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of its denotative meaning < 1287278259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will start using figuratively to mean "as written" < 1287278262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: only idiots. i hope you realise i'm not an idiot < 1287278285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, no, that's the standard connotative meaning of the phrase < 1287278288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least where I come from < 1287278299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "trust me" basically means nothing really < 1287278301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "like" ;) < 1287278307 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, at work, I use a tiling "window manager" for Windows called "bug.n" (great name huh), and it *kind of* works. But, Windows' window GUIs are rarely designed with tiling in mind. < 1287278322 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I will just reiterate what I said about a billion jillion virtual desktops. < 1287278340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's impressive < 1287278342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug.n that is < 1287278353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you use subpixel smoothing? if so be prepared to stop doing so; other stuff doesn't ship with the patched freetype that makes it non-hideous < 1287278355 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug.n is error. < 1287278359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mean hideous (blue. everywhere.) < 1287278369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the website is a bit strange < 1287278371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fork of dwm 5.8, a dynamic window manager for X, incuding the flextile patch. < 1287278372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in AutoHotkey script < 1287278372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operating system Microsoft Windows < 1287278373 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... don't think I do < 1287278379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently fork means rewrite loosely based on < 1287278382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you use ubuntu? < 1287278387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you turn it off? < 1287278388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1287278392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on an old version < 1287278395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you don't, no need to worry < 1287278395 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH! AutoHotKey script is a FANTASTIC language, just like NSIS Installer language is FANTASTIC. < 1287278461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so how goes my article publication HUH < 1287278485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks being sick. < 1287278500 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1287278511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh btw the difference between FFSv1 and FFSv2 is that FFSv1 uses 32-bit inodes and FFSv2 doesn't. so if you have a partition >1 Tb... :P also only FFSv2 has journaling. it might be worth using just for that < 1287278520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UFSv2 = FFSv2, and none of the other filesystems are worth using < 1287278524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just an alias) < 1287278530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: THAT IS WHAT I HAVE LEARNED. < 1287278544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dunno < 1287278560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I'm not an editor, and you're getting annoying. < 1287278574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: I may /ignore you if you ask again) < 1287278585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gentoo's had a patent violation USE flag for ages now. :) < 1287278597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SORRY I WILL REFRAIN FROM JOKING IN FUTURE PLEASE FORGIVE ME < 1287278603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: of course it can be done it's just more of a pain < 1287278615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and if you're not crazy like you or me, it's easier just to turn it off < 1287278626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes it does suck :( < 1287278632 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does freebsd use? < 1287278634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. That sort of thing happens to be one of the few things that I genuinely *absolutely adore* about Gentoo. < 1287278635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got food poisoning last week. :( What's wrong with you? < 1287278651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: USE flag proliferation is irritating < 1287278656 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i do not have anything > 1 tb but thanks for letting me know < 1287278660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: i don't know and i really don't care < 1287278664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes but journaling is nice < 1287278667 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, pikhq: for me, being sick means I get to stay home and do fun stuff :-) < 1287278668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are given the ability to flip off patent and trademark laws within the constraints of the package manager. < 1287278672 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says ufs but i think it might be a variant < 1287278673 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr FFSv2 < 1287278675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It's the weekend. < 1287278682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the patent is only valid in the us < 1287278685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Like a flu or something. < 1287278686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canonical is a UK company < 1287278687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1287278689 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE *BSDS ARE DYING < 1287278697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really just all the US users who are breaking the law < 1287278705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Netcraft confirms it. < 1287278707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Said patent expired, anyways. < 1287278708 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kirk McKusick and Poul-Henning Kamp extended the FreeBSD FFS and UFS layers to support a new variant, called UFS2, which adds 64-bit block pointers (allowing volumes to grow up to 8 zettabytes), variable-sized blocks (similar to extents), extended flag fields, additional 'birthtime' stamps, extended attribute support and POSIX1.e ACLs. UFS2 became the default UFS version starting with FreeBSD 5.0. < 1287278711 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, maybe it'll last until monday or tuesday < 1287278725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: FFSv1 is still the default NetBSD filesystem < 1287278736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but it's probably worth going FFSv2 just for the journaling < 1287278738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1287278745 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT12 or nothing, baby! < 1287278746 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's not sick < 1287278761 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's society being hypochondriac < 1287278768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: although http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/PH_Kamp.jpg that tshirt is dangerously furry, do you want to risk another AROS?! < 1287278775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE CO-INVENTED FFSV1 BE VERY AFRAID < 1287278775 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1287278784 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHK is... oh god < 1287278787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I'm too sick to genuinely *enjoy* doing stuff. < 1287278793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I WANT TO HEAR STORIES < 1287278799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anything that requires thought. Or action. < 1287278803 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can enjoy napping < 1287278805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: although i have him down as a cool dude < 1287278806 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i will just not use computers from now on < 1287278809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: hahahahaha < 1287278817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: freebsd jails, Varnish cache, popularised "bikeshedding"?? < 1287278826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: have you ever had a flu? < 1287278840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what's wrong with him, honest question < 1287278847 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he is probably not a bad guy, he is just a vortex of drama < 1287278871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: apparently he only contributed bits of the FFSv2 *implementation* SO YOU SHOULD BE FINE < 1287278872 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really there are other freebsd'ers who i would be pointing fingers at < 1287278877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Sleeping is somewhat difficult when you have difficulty breathing. < 1287278879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just stick with the defaults < 1287278881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and know it will work < 1287278886 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it came to "problem personalities" < 1287278888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just hope it never crashes leaving you wanting journalling < 1287278895 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FAT12 or nothing, baby! <-- the only real file system i've ever coded a driver for < 1287278899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: colin percival is fun, i like him, despite his ego being unspeakably immense < 1287278909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: You could probably get FAT16 or FAT32 going easily from there. < 1287278921 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when colin percival was accepted as a committer. he was SOOOOOOOOOOO EXCITED < 1287278925 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT16 would theoretically be a tad easier < 1287278929 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT32 has more stuff though < 1287278935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well he's probably aspergers or something. < 1287278943 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1287278944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: No, FAT32 is just FAT with 32 instead of 16. < 1287278946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: when was that? < 1287278951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's only 27/28 now < 1287278955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: The long filename stuff is a FAT extension that works on all variants. < 1287278966 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i ... must have been around 2001 < 1287278972 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, pikhq: my experience has always been that lying in bed, hiding under the covers, it's warm and humid and dark enough to a) stop my nose and b) let me use my computer < 1287278988 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 2003? < 1287278993 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember < 1287278994 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no if you've looked at FAT32 you would have noticed that it uses more than just the first block for info and treats the root directory differently. < 1287279000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 19 or 21 then < 1287279004 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VFAT is available for all FATs. < 1287279007 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that. < 1287279015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can also be safely ignored < 1287279028 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had just presented his paper on an exploit based on... i don't remember < 1287279033 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something clever < 1287279034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: he did a reddit "ask me questions" type thing a while back, someone asked him whether he thought he'd change the world and he said that he'd basically accepted that he would end up doing so no matter what < 1287279036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol'd at that < 1287279037 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about timings, probably < 1287279047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he's... he... timing, yeah < 1287279055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Um? < 1287279061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: if you tried that with a proper flu, you'd have a computer covered in vomit < 1287279066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it does have another structure. < 1287279069 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd still feel awful < 1287279073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: VOMITPUTER < 1287279078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever had hot-cold cycles?) < 1287279079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs on puters. also vomit < 1287279082 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we're gossiping, then, oh yes, dag-erling smorgrav and kris whatshisname, THEY made the freebsd experience ENTIRELY pleasant. < 1287279094 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Below are years 2004 and 2005 public logs provided by clog (an IRC channel logging "bot") for #esoteric on the Freenode (formerly known as Open Projects (formerly known as Linpeople)) IRC network. < 1287279094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it can also be safely ignored <-- what exactly is vfat < 1287279101 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest log: 10.10.16 < 1287279106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, iirc fat file systems list as vfat when I mount them < 1287279108 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VFAT == LFN support for FAT < 1287279115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, LFN? < 1287279124 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long file name < 1287279125 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: usually I can tell at least 10-20s before I'm going to vomit < 1287279126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: The FAT32 information structure seems pretty simple. < 1287279128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, ah < 1287279139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, can't be ignored safely then :P < 1287279143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: then you have not had a flu < 1287279143 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but it is a little more than just "change 16 to 32" < 1287279148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1287279160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas FAT16 is just that. < 1287279167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : latest log: 10.10.16 < 1287279168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1287279169 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually you can ignore them, i think it's a weird combination of the disk label flag and some other flag < 1287279169 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whatever, I'll sit and be happy < 1287279170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what of it < 1287279171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... 12 to 16) < 1287279182 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it says 2004 and 2005 < 1287279189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, will mess up the fs if you move stuff around, no? < 1287279192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: oh < 1287279201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: that's because hcf jumped off a bridge in 2005 < 1287279203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather stopped maintaining clog < 1287279204 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for reading they're safe to ignore < 1287279204 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try this unetbootin < 1287279206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was horribly hacked such that if used with an implementation that doesn't know about it, you just get 8.3 filenames. < 1287279209 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thaaang < 1287279217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you can't if you're backing up can you? < 1287279225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hmn < 1287279229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm* < 1287279239 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, RIP benoit mandelbrot < 1287279255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know nothing about FSes -- can a file be multiple inodes? < 1287279261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. non-continuous across the disk? < 1287279313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It adds entries into the directory entry that are marked volume label, system, hidden, read only, *and* point to completely empty files. < 1287279322 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gonna see how it works. i can create the install usb on one port while backing up? i think? < 1287279331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes. but not test it obviously < 1287279336 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1287279339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which makes ignorant filesystem drivers just ignore them. < 1287279345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: just open the program, put the ISO in, check that the ISO box is the chosen one < 1287279351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: pick the USB drive device < 1287279352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and click go < 1287279360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh if you already have stuff on the stick just delete the files < 1287279382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: (don't zero out the stick, it needs a fat partition to work) < 1287279390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *won't* automatically delete the files for you < 1287279392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287279395 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using newwww stick for nwo < 1287279398 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1287279402 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the NEW WORLD ORDER < 1287279404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1287279420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: OTOH this means that you can put http://netbsd.org/docs/guide/en/netbsd.html and http://netbsd.org/docs/pkgsrc/index.html on before or after using unetbootin < 1287279424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *on the stick < 1287279430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might have to mount it manually afterwards < 1287279433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'd just put them on another stick < 1287279436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler that way < 1287279439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the long filenames are always UTF-16, even if the system code page isn't Unicode. < 1287279439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more likely to work < 1287279457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normal FAT filenames are based on the system code page) < 1287279468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1287279485 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is already on my other "main" stick. the pkgsrc index, i don't have, might come in handy < 1287279523 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um that's just the toc < 1287279531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: er right sec < 1287279541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The pkgsrc guide - for users and developers of pkgsrc, the centralized package build and management system . Available formats for download: PostScript and PDF" < 1287279542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1287279546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript and pdf won't help ofc < 1287279571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1287279572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/pkgsrc/pkgsrc.html < 1287279580 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1287279618 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that the ISO standard for PDF is downloadable in the PDF format < 1287279628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: that's not really that amusing < 1287279634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you're going to try and implement pdf without a reader :) < 1287279644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is a self-describing document < 1287279647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is always nice < 1287279783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: anyway yes, if you get it working i will be very happy and consider switching myself < 1287279793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i think if you can get networking working you should be good to go. < 1287279807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give him the stick DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK < 1287279827 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i've managed to get netbsd working < 1287279827 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5Cwow badly machined USB stick < 1287279835 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i used packages < 1287279839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what? < 1287279847 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran it off a 2GB USB stick < 1287279848 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1287279850 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 metric GB < 1287279859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: *2 GB < 1287279871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = 1,000,000,000 < 1287279884 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Was a bitch to "open" it so the USB connector is out; and when it's out, it's crooked < 1287279887 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you'll be fighting with ais < 1287279890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2,147,483,648 bytes, on the other hand, is 2 GiB.) < 1287279895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: what? < 1287279899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais definitely knows this. < 1287279901 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was always 1MB = 2^20B < 1287279907 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until someone decided to be a smartarse < 1287279914 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just hope it works ok < 1287279918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: your history is laughably inaccurate. < 1287279922 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to < 1287279926 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it was anyway < 1287279927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: gigawatt. gigahertz. < 1287279934 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but those aren't bytes < 1287279935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: the prefix is G. < 1287279937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computing wasn't there first. < 1287279946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: PREFIXES DO NOT CHANGE DEPENDING ON THE UNIT < 1287279949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole POINT of prefixes! < 1287279952 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but when computing came out, division was EXPENSIVE < 1287279954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there something with HD manufacturers using the Non GiB? < 1287279969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: it's nothing to do with division < 1287279971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just making shit up < 1287279977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because memory is addressed in silicon < 1287279983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our CPUs are based on bits < 1287279987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: see http://www.tarsnap.com/GB-why.html < 1287279991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all a conspiracy by hard drive manufacturers who want to cheat us out of the disk space we're paying for! < 1287279991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all love good conspiracy theories... but really, this isn't about evil megacorporations trying to cheat you. Hard drive prices are determined almost entirely by competition between manufacturers, so if hard drives were labelled in GiB instead of being labelled in GB, we'd be paying the same number of dollars for the same number of bytes anyway — if this really was a global conspiracy, it would be one of the dumbest conspiracies ever. < 1287280006 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you will consider *switching*? heh... ok < 1287280012 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please shut up < 1287280014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait, what's so amusing? < 1287280018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i mean from ubuntu to netbsd < 1287280029 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say metric GB when i mean they use the SI unit or something < 1287280041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: I'm not going to shut up just because you can't think of a response. < 1287280045 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, my laptop uses 2048 metric MB of *RAM* < 1287280050 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I HAVE SEEN THAT PAGE BEFORE < 1287280052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially not after you invented about 10 explanations because I told you the previous ones were wrong. < 1287280060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think the idea is that it's more of a psychological thing < 1287280068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your laptop uses 2048 non-metric mebibytes. < 1287280071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not metric at all. < 1287280075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it isn't. < 1287280083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: seriously. there is no conspiracy. there is no trickery. < 1287280087 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just never considered running netbsd as a "main" OS before, i guess < 1287280094 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing saying you can't < 1287280098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's what you're crazy enough to be doing, isn't it? < 1287280101 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Your laptop uses 2048 non-metric mebibytes. <-- NOW you're wrong < 1287280113 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses metric MB < 1287280118 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with any luck, dual-boot windows and netbsd. so i have an "out" of sorts < 1287280121 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in your terms is MB, *NOT* MiB < 1287280121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: What? It really doesn't. < 1287280130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're crazy. RAM is sold in powers of two. < 1287280131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. MiB. < 1287280135 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'll check again < 1287280142 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they could save a few transistors < 1287280153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely to be reported by OSes as MB < 1287280156 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... address lines < 1287280162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 GiB of RAM = 2048 MiB of RAM = 2'147'483'648 bytes < 1287280163 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come in singles < 1287280165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what catseye said < 1287280170 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each one multiplies the space by 2 < 1287280170 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't change the number of address lines < 1287280187 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i believe they use metric MB < 1287280194 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my laptop's RAM < 1287280203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: they. really. don't. < 1287280214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, even see that dreaded page again: < 1287280217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[You're right: If you buy a "1GB" stick of RAM, it will hold 2^30 bytes of data.]] < 1287280223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody knows this... < 1287280227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thanksants.com/alise < 1287280246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks Elliott... Thelliott. < 1287280253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by metric MB you mean 10^whatever bytes... you're insane < 1287280255 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001772 KB total as reported by top < 1287280273 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this were measured in GiB that would be 1.9GiB < 1287280281 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.9090... actually < 1287280283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: when it says KB < 1287280284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means KiB < 1287280290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what most things mean by KB < 1287280292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a computer < 1287280301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001772 KiB = 2049814528 bytes < 1287280316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1287280316 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2001772.0/1024/1024 = 1.9090...... < 1287280319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: ok, something is rounding it. < 1287280324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *do not* get RAM in that size < 1287280329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: what reports that? < 1287280330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows? < 1287280333 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux < 1287280336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be reserving some RAM for itself < 1287280339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the OS < 1287280353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be used by graphics circuits < 1287280356 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GreaseMonkey: ok, i'm at risk of being wrong < 1287280357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, most likely < 1287280358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hapens < 1287280365 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1287280372 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much would that use, btw? < 1287280375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not most likely, it would use an even number of MB < 1287280381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not necessarily < 1287280388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, most probably it would < 1287280390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's more likely than RAM is being sold in non-powers of two, which *does* *not* *happen* < 1287280394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bios reserves some too iirc < 1287280420 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they sell flash memory in non powers of two < 1287280428 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's to stop them selling RAM in non powers of two? < 1287280438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: no they don't < 1287280441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not that i've seen < 1287280446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they do, it'll just have some inaccessible < 1287280449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: ok, here's a challenge < 1287280452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: http://newegg.com/ < 1287280455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find me some non-power-of-two RAM < 1287280456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go! < 1287280464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my system have a total of 1502 MiB RAM on my desktop. Not shared with gpu since gpu has it's own < 1287280470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at the physical memory map in dmesg; there's all kinds of messiness there. < 1287280472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "MiB" < 1287280474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not metric MB < 1287280477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like GreaseMonkey says < 1287280478 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it seems to something rather < 1287280478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's MiB < 1287280481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1287280488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so what you said contradicts nothing i said :) < 1287280492 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the term ais uses < 1287280492 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nominally it has 1.5 GB/GiB < 1287280499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: dear god, he doesn't, i was there when you said it < 1287280500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you put in a 512MiB stick and a 1GiB stick? < 1287280503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he mentioned it once < 1287280510 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while ais can get annoying i have more respect for him than you < 1287280556 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i revert to "drivemakers' gigabytes"? < 1287280560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1287280561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /proc/meminfo < 1287280562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MemTotal: 1539008 kB < 1287280567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be exact < 1287280580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rare for most people in this channel to be abject morons who grasp at straws and use ideas of respect to dismiss facts. < 1287280583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a rare treasure. < 1287280586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1287280601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it does not seem to be a power of two < 1287280604 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you're just insanely loud and opinionated < 1287280613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should be 1512 really < 1287280613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: only when people like you make sweeping statements < 1287280617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like to annoy them. works doesn't it? < 1287280624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is 1502.9375 < 1287280645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: something's reserved somewhere obviously < 1287280650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather non-exact in my experience < 1287280657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ram is still always sold as powers of two, which is the point < 1287280668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "sold as" != "is" ;P < 1287280669 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"obviously"[weasel word] < 1287280669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "2G" stick of ram is always 2 GiB < 1287280676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: oh seriously, fuck off. < 1287280681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even memtest doesn't think I have exactly 1512 MB < 1287280684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or MiB < 1287280684 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your plan has backfired < 1287280688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right. < 1287280692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but i'm talking about sold as here. < 1287280698 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal | MemTotal: 1539008 kB < 1287280705 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon < 1287280717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I swear to never be awful to you ever again. Now I know how bad it could be. < 1287280727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You are an angel of perfection. < 1287280730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err :P < 1287280735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh hah < 1287280769 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have MemTotal: 1023972 kB < 1287280781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: were you asking what pkg(8) was before btw? < 1287280784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can explain the basic design if you want < 1287280791 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no guarantee that is all of the ram in the system, is there? < 1287280794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would force you to watch graphs of statistics about panoramas all day long :P < 1287280800 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the total that the OS sees < 1287280809 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes i was! < 1287280809 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would i find out how much RAM was allocated to the GPU? < 1287280816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lovely. Sounds wonderful. I'll look at it with my 4 GiB of non-metric RAM. < 1287280828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are you sure you want the whole boring story??? 'cuz i totally have it lined up man < 1287280852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1287280859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SMM < 1287280867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would reserve some memory < 1287280869 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right now might not be the BEST time for me to absorb it, but, package managers have always been an annoyance to me, so i will probably recognize a lot of it. < 1287280879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while BIOS stuff would be visible to the OS < 1287280884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMM might not < 1287280886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1287280934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Packages are built on layers of abstraction; a package for a "typical" autotools thing will just use some autotools library and be maybe 10-15 lines. More complicated stuff would be longer, obviously. Because, you know, building on abstractions. This is CS 101. < 1287280944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: We have "metapackages" -- actually just packages but it's a semi-useful distinction. < 1287280949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Basically packages can take arguments/options. < 1287280953 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ports builds on abstractions and is STUPID < 1287280959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Also every package can be given --arch and be compiled for that architecture. < 1287280966 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its language is MAKE, fuckin MAKE man! < 1287280979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets put into /arch/THEARCH-netbsd-netbsd/ as a root. < 1287280981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's non-native. < 1287280993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. /arch/i686-netbsd-netbsd/bin/ls < 1287280998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : catseye: Also every package can be given --arch and be compiled for that architecture. <-- surely there are some arch specific packages? < 1287281000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously if you have x86_64 you can run this without issues. < 1287281007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is a list of supported architectures you can set in each package. < 1287281009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Now. < 1287281013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Something like a cross-compiler. < 1287281013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1287281019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: A Canadian cross would look like this: < 1287281046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# pkg ins --arch=ppc --build=arm --target=x86 < 1287281060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no package name? < 1287281062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1287281066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# pkg ins gcc-cross --arch=ppc --build=arm --target=x86 < 1287281077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i686 < 1287281078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1287281081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd actually be triples < 1287281082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1287281088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: This would mean "on a PPC architecture (this will work if you have some sort of automatic PPC emulator configured), build a gcc cross compiler that is an ARM executable, that spits out x86 executables." < 1287281091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you do canadian cross for llvm hm < 1287281095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously normally you'd omit --arch because... < 1287281101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well because it only controls the build process < 1287281105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so usually you'd want it to be native < 1287281107 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool unetbootin supports floppy i could make befos boot usb! < 1287281107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that'd then install in < 1287281115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/arch/arm-netbsd-netbsd/... < 1287281122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that isn't what --build means iirc? < 1287281127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i forget. whatever. --host. < 1287281129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean. < 1287281131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't --build the system used to build the cross compiler < 1287281132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or --build, or. < 1287281136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--host is where it runs < 1287281138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shut up you get the idea :D < 1287281139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Also, we use the package manager for system configuration. < 1287281141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and --target is what it compiles to < 1287281149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: for instance: say we have some default X configuration files that start "the default window manager". < 1287281158 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this does not seem to be addressing my own particular pet peeves but ok < 1287281159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: # pkg ins default-x11-wm --wm=pekwm < 1287281168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: this would conflict with all other arguments to --wm so you could only have one at a time < 1287281172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so we do a lot of configuration with this < 1287281179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i probably have addressed your peeves -- name them < 1287281180 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait the last might part i'm not sure < 1287281182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, what are your pet peeves then? < 1287281183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll tell you if i've thought of them < 1287281218 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package managers are imperative stomp stomp there it's installed should be declarative what packages ARE or ARE NOT on system < 1287281232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: see NixOS < 1287281234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, oh, you mean like that nixos thingy? < 1287281239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: there will be a slight functional bent to it. of course. < 1287281244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as far as NixOS < 1287281251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not as far? < 1287281253 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never heard of nixos and will soon accuse you of MAKING it UP < 1287281254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it will be more functional than you might think though < 1287281261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because i want to maintain a distro, not an entirely new configuration of everything :D < 1287281268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: same reason i'm not sandboxing everything < 1287281281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, it isn't made up < 1287281315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, when do you think this will be implemented? Before or after DNF? < 1287281325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your distro that is) < 1287281338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as soon as school stops taking up 90% of my time. so, maybe you can expect work to start in the half-term holiday. < 1287281351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i don't end up watching youtube for the entire duration < 1287281361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's deliberately not quite as ambitious as my real goals < 1287281365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely because ubuntu is irritating. < 1287281367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and when do we get the capability-based-or-whatever-os-the-current-fad elliottOS? < 1287281385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hey elliottOS is not faddish, it's more curmudgeonly, most of the stuff i want isn't in fashion :P < 1287281396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that project is and always has been a platonic ideal. if anything it will be my life's work. < 1287281407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, but your own fad < 1287281409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not anticipate calling anything 1.0 even in the next decade. < 1287281416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one day it is smalltalk and capabilities < 1287281427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the next it is lisp and one bit address space < 1287281429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note: i have never said i will use a certain language for elliottOS < 1287281434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1287281435 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so totally should have bought corn chips when i was at whole foods. oh well < 1287281436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one address space has always been a goal < 1287281437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287281441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capabilities have always been a goal < 1287281447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has always been and will always be in total flux :) < 1287281456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, their relative importance changed a lot < 1287281470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what's the point of vague design if you can't change your mind day-to-day? :) < 1287281478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1287281490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One address space"? < 1287281497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still I think you and zzo should join efforts :P < 1287281508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no ram/disk dichotomy < 1287281512 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VORPAL HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED ZORK < 1287281514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume anything attempting to access memory it shouldn't have access to gets an error of some .... OH < 1287281517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awes.. wait < 1287281521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are reasons for that < 1287281533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not for filesystems < 1287281534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there aren't. not like you think. < 1287281537 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mit dungeon < 1287281537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But HDs are slower < 1287281542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1287281544 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if not you totally should < 1287281546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is well accounted for < 1287281548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, alas no, I played collosal cave of course < 1287281552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err % typos < 1287281558 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah collosal cave! 2nd rate < 1287281563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, programs need to know whether a block of memory is RAM or HD < 1287281568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they don't < 1287281568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, it was the first! < 1287281570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are no programs < 1287281575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the design is much less simplistic than you think < 1287281577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and existed in the 60s < 1287281582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(multics did a form of it iirc) < 1287281592 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes it has that. but it's not as cool. < 1287281597 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not imho. < 1287281606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, being first makes it quite cool < 1287281610 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dungeon" is the best thing to ever come out of MIT. < 1287281628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1287281629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when a thingy accidentally uses HD for something very volatile and constantly changing, what then? < 1287281632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1287281637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they don't get the choice. < 1287281638 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the very very eary versions where it was just a text-based spelunking simulator: THOSE would be cool. < 1287281642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory and HD are managed for them. properly. < 1287281643 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*early < 1287281649 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know if they exist anymore. < 1287281658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS determines what changes quickly and what doesn't? < 1287281659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well there's the first official one < 1287281666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before fantasy-type stuff got added < 1287281668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's not that naive. < 1287281676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, volatile stuff is still saved. for a reason. < 1287281681 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really? if that's available i want to see it < 1287281685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hey, one of the questions on the ECDL test involved zork (in a minor way) < 1287281713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ECDL = really basic IT qualification; I'm doing it at school...) < 1287281722 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :European Computer Driving Licence < 1287281725 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says google < 1287281730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a note to self to only use EhirdOS on systems with solid-state storage < 1287281734 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY WAIT computers sholdn't be allowed to drive! < 1287281742 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moo < 1287281749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, they already do < 1287281758 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADNESS < 1287281777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no. < 1287281782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you don't understand the design at all. < 1287281785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you miscapitalised my name < 1287281797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EHird < 1287281821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SGeo < 1287281890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well@ < 1287281891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well: < 1287281893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crowther had explored the Mammoth Cave in the early 1970s, and created a vector map based on surveys of parts of the real cave, but the text game is a completely separate entity, created during the 1975-76 academic year [5] and featuring fantasy elements such as an axe-throwing dwarf and a magic bridge. < 1287281893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crowther/Woods Adventure (1977) running on a PDP-10 < 1287281893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The version that is best known today was the result of a collaboration with Don Woods, a graduate student who discovered the game on a computer at Stanford University[6] and made significant expansions and improvements, with Crowther's blessing. A big fan of Tolkien, he introduced additional fantasy elements, such as elves and a troll. < 1287281898 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i Now haff NetBSD on a USB stuck. in some Esotericke Formatte. I need to test this < 1287281901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so it still had some fantasy stuff but less < 1287281907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: explore the usb stick in GNOME < 1287281911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the files should all be there < 1287281949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup :) < 1287281967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crowther's original source code for Adventure (as recovered from Don Woods's student account at Stanford) < 1287281968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jerz.setonhill.edu/if/crowther/ < 1287281972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck playing it! < 1287281978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortran code + data < 1287281991 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDD < 1287282018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so you'll want adv{f4,dat}.77-03-11 < 1287282025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the earliest possible experience < 1287282030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: btw that's the same don woods as intercal < 1287282033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you probably knew that < 1287282036 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1287282105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# sudo aptitude install fortran77-compiler < 1287282141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: maybe i need to cat the data and source files < 1287282142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287282146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together, that is < 1287282196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it liketh it not < 1287282209 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably no code survives from the stage when it was just the spelunking simulator -- no fantasy. but it doubtless passed through that state < 1287282245 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea about teh fortan. it would be A Project. < 1287282254 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have saved it though < 1287282261 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now to test < 1287282272 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiabbiabbiabbiabbiabbiab < 1287282279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait < 1287282284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's backed up? < 1287282298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: be careful with that partitioner btw < 1287282299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bitch < 1287282301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if crowley considered himself a spelunker or a caver back then < 1287282305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, when your selection doesn't seem to be accepted < 1287282310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just moves to the next-installer-thing < 1287282312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually accepted < 1287282318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: good luck sir < 1287282365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (islower (opt )) opt = toupper (opt ); < 1287282367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1287282402 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's backed up < 1287282405 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"caver"? < 1287282410 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl < 1287282411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: good luck sir < 1287282414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i salute you < 1287282429 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes off all pomp and circumstance like < 1287282432 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6 < 1287282707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of a sudden it's cold. < 1287282711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was hot but now it's cold. < 1287282792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1287282798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: All of a sudden I want to design a filesystem... < 1287282799 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks a thermometer in pikhq  < 1287282824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it would have files. < 1287282829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well yeah, but < 1287282833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And be insufficiently awesome. < 1287282841 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a moneysystem < 1287282843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you make it sufficiently awesome? < 1287282843 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have money < 1287282853 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ysy < 1287282862 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ysys < 1287282867 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ysyst < 1287282885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_File_System#History_and_evolution Read this and tell me it doesn't make you want to design a nice little FS. < 1287282934 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hierarchies! < 1287282963 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-148-69-29.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287282970 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so, "it supports NetBSD" < 1287283006 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you bring the chicken wire and calcium carbonate?" "No Karl, I thought YOU were going to bring the chicken wire and calcium carbonate!" "Doh!" < 1287283017 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEANING < 1287283020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Restate that more coherently. < 1287283039 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's coherent. It just needs context. < 1287283043 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs the name of the kernel to load. If you just select an ISO from your disk, it doesn't know that. < 1287283066 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess you need to know that, although, I don't know how it knows how to read FFSv1. < 1287283080 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to the docs in more closer examination time! < 1287283081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Hmmm. < 1287283085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports Linux better than that. < 1287283092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Maybe the NetBSD download option does something fancy. How quickly did the iso download? < 1287283098 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also continuing to DL 10.10 < 1287283099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ISO < 1287283118 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO was not too fast but not too bad. Like 10, 15 minutes? < 1287283123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Sec. < 1287283164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *groan*, the NetBSD option in unetbootin is 4.0. < 1287283165 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"supply your own Linux .iso file" that is maybe a hint < 1287283172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes, but it has bsds in the list of the things < 1287283194 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i thought it would be general enough to do "if this ISO boots and can handle the fact it isn't a CD, it'll go < 1287283197 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1287283199 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alas < 1287283205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait, i have an idea. < 1287283216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you know that partition of the usb stick? < 1287283218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmount it in gnome < 1287283223 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1287283234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then dd if=netbsd.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=8k (assuming /dev/sdb is your usb drive) < 1287283237 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAt is IDEA < 1287283239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might work < 1287283242 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH uhhh < 1287283242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it uses the floppy emulation stuff < 1287283244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1287283266 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jeez. Let me see if anyone has mentioned this < 1287283276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Hey, you can always undo it. < 1287283286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fdisk the stick, add a partition, mkfs.vfat; tada, back to normal. < 1287283320 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bsdnexus.com/NetBSD_onastick/install_guide.php if you're already running NetBSD, great. lemme translate < 1287283355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *yes* no that won't work. < 1287283358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try my dd command < 1287283366 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to change our idea of what BIOS thinks? < 1287283371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not an idiot, that is the most likely thing to work from linux < 1287283372 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alone makes me hate bsd all over again < 1287283382 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't doubt it will probably work < 1287283391 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, "proceed" < 1287283391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press eject next to partition in gnome < 1287283394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo dd if=netbsd.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=8k < 1287283396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it dammit :P < 1287283400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take like three minutes < 1287283417 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, one sec < 1287283436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: make sure netbsd.iso is the actual name and make sure /dev/sdb is your usb stick < 1287283441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically pick the highest /dev/sd*...) < 1287283449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiping your HD with a netbsd iso would be nasty < 1287283470 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uh < 1287283474 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check < 1287283510 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdb1 < 1287283519 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate all unix now < 1287283553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no < 1287283554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sdb1 < 1287283555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdb < 1287283556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's important < 1287283561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdb1 won't work in this case < 1287283563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be sdb < 1287283573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you must eject the partition or NO WORKY am i yelling enough < 1287283573 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1287283585 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eject the partwhat ok < 1287283591 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLINKING! < 1287283613 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UMOUNTED! < 1287283618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: okay! < 1287283619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1287283622 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dding < 1287283626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo dd if=NETBSD_ISO_NAME of=/dev/sdb bs=8k < 1287283627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gogogo < 1287283630 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE BLINKING! < 1287283630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might joust work!!!1 < 1287283631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1287283636 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and waiting < 1287283646 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while transmission downloads 10.10 incase i can't get this to work < 1287283651 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in case < 1287283711 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT FINISH-ED < 1287283718 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i try reboot now < 1287283723 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme minute < 1287283727 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun :) < 1287283762 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is threads? what is "caver"? BYE < 1287283763 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6 < 1287283774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaagh. So, I've got this video I want to encode, right? It's hard telecined. But *strangely*. < 1287283806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Soft telecine! < 1287283812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard and soft telecine. < 1287283814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Medium telecine. < 1287283816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1287283817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. < 1287283853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near as I can tell, it's got an atypical telecine pattern. < 1287283864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts single-stepping to see what's going on. < 1287283889 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1287283937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the main FPSes are 24, 25 and 29.97, right? < 1287283942 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-148-69-29.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287283947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: No worky? < 1287283961 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION  < 1287283968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: did it even try and boot? :p < 1287283983 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I press F5 to boot from USB like usual, and am greeted by a shrill BEEEP through speakers. < 1287283987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1287283993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you know what? do you have a CD or DVD of any sort < 1287283995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be written to < 1287283996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1287284001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 24, 24000/1001 25, 30000/1001, 30. < 1287284007 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um I have a lot of blank DVDs that are useless t me < 1287284008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, fuck off :D < 1287284012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Writable? < 1287284018 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well presumably < 1287284024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Do you have a piece of equipment that can put bits onto discs? < 1287284025 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By a writer < 1287284033 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO I DO NOT that is part of the motivation for this < 1287284045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: okay < 1287284046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, wait, there's more, but those are digital only, so hey. < 1287284047 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This DVD/R is borked, at least under Ubuntu < 1287284052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NTSC-M is either 30000/1001 or (telecined) 24000/1001, system M is either 30 or (telecined) 24. < 1287284054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm < 1287284062 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried butning a CD, but expect same result < 1287284062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are you sure? < 1287284066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: try it :P < 1287284069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than this crap! < 1287284072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a CD < 1287284077 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried it like five times < 1287284104 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always tells me "operation not supported" or some crap. But it has worked on this OS once in the past. < 1287284110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(digital TV standards, BTW, should support directly: 24, 24000/1001, 25, 30000/1001, 30, 50, 60.) < 1287284139 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to 10.10 since ubutniknetboo understands linux. THEN I might try NetBSD. < 1287284171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Hmm. If burning works on that Ubuntu, that will be good. < 1287284184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: btw the installer sucks for partitioning < 1287284186 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try it again, but my hopes are nil. < 1287284192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: choose to install updates when installing, and partition manually < 1287284197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put an ext4 partition in for / < 1287284199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some swap if you want < 1287284203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the 10.10 installer? ok < 1287284232 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have another hour before the 10.10 download completes < 1287284240 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287284242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ah < 1287284248 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287284248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: bittorrent? < 1287284255 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1287284262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest that every analogue recording should have a test pattern for a second or so that hardware viewers skip past. < 1287284275 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287284276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So that it can be seen how it differs from the original signal. < 1287284279 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i... resuming an interrupted http download does never work < 1287284282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: add some web seeds < 1287284293 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok maybe how? < 1287284298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look it up :D < 1287284319 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep in mind i have old retarded transmission w/o File menu < 1287284327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it might even predate web seeds then < 1287284330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it seems to *mostly* be 2:3 pulldown, but *parts* of it seem to be doing 1:3 pulldown or 1:4 pulldown. < 1287284334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1287284385 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come other irc channels are never this cool? < 1287284403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: we're awesome < 1287284407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are. frequently. cooler. < 1287284420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: orly? < 1287284423 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: NAMES? < 1287284443 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#scheme i'm guessing NOT on that list < 1287284445 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people are lame and would ruin my cool hangouts. < 1287284451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "THEY'RE ALL PRIVATE HURR" < 1287284457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're cool because we have injokes < 1287284460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees how FUCKING CRAZY mplayer's divtc filter can be < 1287284467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are elitist < 1287284469 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh then they're totally yeah ok < 1287284470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the true ~irc~ way < 1287284567 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287284601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: try mplayer's pullup? < 1287284605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do crazy things i think < 1287284622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not crazy enough. < 1287284625 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb should write a roguelike < 1287284641 0 :Akeelah!~Akeelah@69.73.246.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287284641 0 :Akeelah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Global-announcement] Fuck you! This spam was brought to you by #freenode, remember, node freely! < 1287284642 0 :Akeelah!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287284672 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's AKELA, bitch < 1287284700 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever, spose i can't expect inteligence from that sort < 1287284730 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have no grasp of this "#freenode is spamming you" meme, though. < 1287284737 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, ... < 1287284756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: because it makes people be stupid in #freenode < 1287284763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they themselves go in and say "WHY FREENODE SPAMMING" < 1287284770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it wastes staffer time in #freenode < 1287284771 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These people need to watch "Airplane" or maybe "Pee-Wee's Playhouse" < 1287284802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pee-wee's playhouse" has to be the most worrying title for anything ever < 1287284802 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe level up their humorbone, if that's possible. < 1287284854 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287284865 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pretty worrying. That Herman fellow was very strange, very strange indeed. < 1287284897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mental association for Herman is Herman Toothrot. < 1287284916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.photobucket.com/image/herman%20toothrot/ATMachine/mimisc/mi1amiga8.png < 1287284920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amiga, catseye! Amiga! < 1287284930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he looks better in the pc version though. < 1287284934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scummbar.com/images/dep/mi1characters/fullQ.gif < 1287284943 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's funny for the spammer to watch/ < 1287284997 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to help me label these somehow? < 1287284999 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://daychilde.com/midiguy/ < 1287285064 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'narr < 1287285099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way. < 1287285109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is *impossible* to describe how little i want to help you label those < 1287285150 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means you must want to help a little. "Not at all" is perfectly describable < 1287285152 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1287285161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: shut up. < 1287285165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: i want to help negative amounts < 1287285165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ? < 1287285176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems the least awful way to do this is going to be following pullup with a deinterlacer. < 1287285187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287285194 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: whe... where did you get those and why do they need labelling < 1287285219 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From BYOND, many years ago. It caches stuff, including MIDIs from games, and randomizes the names < 1287285232 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"takefive.mid" is probably Take Five (WILD GUESS) < 1287285245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that Lummox JR's stupid fucking piece of crap? < 1287285247 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your guess for 87b672a2.mid < 1287285258 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOoh, "zoot_suit_riot.mid" < 1287285265 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's LummoxJR's, yes < 1287285277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who hates linux because ... actually he never made a coherent argument < 1287285283 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if i can play em < 1287285328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i love how take five was written in ye olden days when 5/4 was CRAZY AND WILD < 1287285330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1287285378 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: "Will You Be Mine in the Twilight of Unlambda" < 1287285409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esoteric album would be excellent < 1287285411 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing ais523 left himself logged in < 1287285430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ais523 is probably awake < 1287285436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his sleep schedule is worse than mine < 1287285541 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the ones that don't need labels aren't from BYOND < 1287285550 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are from AW mostly, a few from Worlds.com < 1287285581 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPHAMAN < 1287285583 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks like a bastardized URL, it's from AW. Doesn't have to be URLish to be from AW though < 1287285596 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And zelda_mario I labelled myself < 1287285610 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ZeldaMario < 1287285643 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol...take five isn't that old is it? dave brubeck is still around right? < 1287285663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddup :P < 1287285666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: WHOA: < 1287285668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble mauve < 1287285669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueva < 1287285671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. < 1287285672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1287285719 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1287285729 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3stheme < 1287285731 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's older than Mandlebrot < 1287285741 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mandelbrot < 1287285790 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brubeck is 90 this year, looks like < 1287285803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive... < 1287285814 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the ones that look labeled need better labels < 1287285824 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain lerf.mid is not the original name < 1287285827 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with stheme < 1287285832 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sthemes < 1287285841 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newages < 1287285909 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dc4 is Light My Fire < 1287285915 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When I Come Around" in MIDI is so... yeah < 1287285952 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever heard it not a MIDI < 1287285960 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION jaw drops < 1287285965 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: BUY DOOKIE < 1287285975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys this assignment < 1287285981 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to push my musical tastes on you buy < 1287285987 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but < 1287285991 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever I hear the real version of some of these songs, I just get giddy with joy < 1287285997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if I'm online overnight, I'm nearly always awake < 1287286000 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The AW ones from the AWGate) < 1287286000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rarely paying attention < 1287286015 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were referring to "Light My Fire", then BUY ANY DOORS COMPILATION < 1287286019 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when_i_come_around is one of them < 1287286020 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello then! < 1287286029 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, I was referring to when_i_come_around < 1287286053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whenever I hear the real version of some of these songs, I just get giddy with joy ;; you're crazy :p < 1287286154 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god you cannot half of these as midi is just preposterous MOST MUSIC IS NOT HELLO < 1287286185 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, try to be coherent? < 1287286191 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHHHHHH Blondie's "RAPTURE" in MIDI < 1287286210 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I am all for video-game music. So don't get me wrong. < 1287286219 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of what I write is video-game music. < 1287286221 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be another AWGate song < 1287286228 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard it outside of MIDI < 1287286228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some of my best friends are video-game music!" < 1287286234 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the thing. If it was *written* as video-game music, it's alight. < 1287286265 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alright < 1287286266 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a grey area, but the point is: < 1287286274 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY TIME YOU TAKE AN ARBITRARY ROCK SONG AND PUT IT INTO MIDI, A MUSE DIES. < 1287286299 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A muse of something. Could be the muse of modern science fiction. WHo knows. < 1287286315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see some modern progressive in MIDI. That would just be... it... I would laugh. < 1287286388 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: My opinion of AW has now fallen from "undefined" to "AUUUGGGGH", based entirely on the music thing. < 1287286390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where dose one obtain midis these days? < 1287286401 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, they stopped < 1287286431 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least these midis serve as source code, in a sense, if you wanted to cover them. < 1287286460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When you make your Linux distro, will you make sure that true and false are each 45 bytes? < 1287286522 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: Here, get giddy with joy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaU8LcwGTA < 1287286537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: < 1287286538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ls -lh /bin/true /bin/false < 1287286538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 23K 2010-06-11 08:24 /bin/false < 1287286538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 23K 2010-06-11 08:24 /bin/true < 1287286540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but... why? < 1287286550 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the MIDI version of Kiss from a Rose better than the real version < 1287286557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true can be 0 bytes, obviously < 1287286560 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That is totally a zzo38 question. < 1287286567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false can be 'exit 1\n' = 6 bytes < 1287286574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not the source < 1287286575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary < 1287286590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23K is hardly a minimal implementation < 1287286593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that was a binary. < 1287286606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ >mytrue < 1287286607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ chmod +x mytrue < 1287286607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ./mytrue; echo $? < 1287286607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1287286619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ echo 'exit 1' >myfalse < 1287286620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ chmod +x myfalse < 1287286620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ ./myfalse; echo $? < 1287286620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1287286624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whoa < 1287286632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they get interpreted as shell scripts, obviously < 1287286633 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language where the source for true and false is both 2 bytes < 1287286636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want a #!/bin/sh at the top really, but < 1287286638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, right < 1287286650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so why 45 bytes :p < 1287286653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unportable though, isn't it? < 1287286653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the smallest elf was 42 bytes < 1287286657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it is? why < 1287286668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the default shell uses a different convention, particularly with the exit line < 1287286683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 45 is the smallest elf < 1287286760 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287286764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if there is some configuration that causes it to not work < 1287286842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html < 1287286848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1287286852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returned 42 < 1287286856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: note: it doesn't work any more < 1287286859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it breaks every standard ever < 1287286875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, not linux. < 1287286880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did i say linux < 1287286923 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets maudlin < 1287286935 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adventure games < 1287286939 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, never mind < 1287286942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you've talked about making your distro among other things < 1287286948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed i have. < 1287286953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and? < 1287287055 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bringing a friend in here < 1287287061 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has questions that I don't know the answers to < 1287287084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: NO < 1287287086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO YOU FUCKING DON'T < 1287287086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1287287087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1287287087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287091 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGeo: we will totally poison his mind. < 1287287093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOP < 1287287101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1287287135 0 :SGeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1287287200 0 :hyper_cube!4859958e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.89.149.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287287205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi hyper_cube < 1287287213 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1287287220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: goodbye < 1287287229 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye < 1287287247 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sgeo < 1287287275 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u dont have any code idea < 1287287290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287287297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: Learn to type English or go away. < 1287287299 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how a program would communicate with some thing physical < 1287287301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with accessing arbitrary hardware < 1287287308 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1287287319 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know my english is poor < 1287287360 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be your gold is to turn a light bulb off and on with writing code < 1287287364 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big step < 1287287428 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this what they call under ground < 1287287429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is utterly unfamiliar with that sort of hardware interaction, while most of the people here understand everything in their sleep < 1287287434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underground? < 1287287456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, how exactly is the light bulb connected? < 1287287466 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb < 1287287475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: was that +o for me? < 1287287488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1287287492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1287287525 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a #usb channel; granted there are only two people in it. < 1287287537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. don't know much about USB, and everyone else seems hostile, thought oerjan seems more hostile to the hostile person. I know nothng about USB :( < 1287287541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is the OFFICIAL channel of USB. < 1287287550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like we're the OFFICIAL channel of ... esoteric. < 1287287571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know about hardware, alas < 1287287573 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the def of esoteric < 1287287579 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1287287585 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite of exoteric. < 1287287592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Thank you :P < 1287287595 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise not well defined. < 1287287599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esotericn generally refers to unusual. This channel is about esoteric programming languages. < 1287287603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: this channel is about esoteric programming languages and related computing topics and the people who love them. < 1287287609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you one of these people? < 1287287620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Languages that are interesting to thinnk about/work with/etc, but generally not practical < 1287287621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle" < 1287287622 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what languAGe would that be < 1287287630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube, not just one < 1287287639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variety, and it's often fun to make new ones < 1287287656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainf*ck, for exampe < 1287287657 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me some example < 1287287658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*example < 1287287662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuckety fuck fuck < 1287287672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a disturbing proliferation of people who have no interest in esoteric programming languages here < 1287287684 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott you not quite there are u < 1287287698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is ... smart, but caustic < 1287287710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you not quite there are u" -- i can't even attempt to parse a meaning from this. seriously. no joke. < 1287287714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean to say? < 1287287739 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u need come back on your meds ? < 1287287752 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how smart are u < 1287287756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: i was in a mental institution for 6 months or so. < 1287287764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bothered by them for anywhere between 11 months to two years. depending on your definition. < 1287287771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the half-joke is manifestly not appreciated. < 1287287776 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i reveal your true color < 1287287782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: wow, go fuck yourself < 1287287797 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1287287802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube, um < 1287287810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a moron and an asshole. this is great. < 1287287811 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know you are becoming normal < 1287287827 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*face-ueber-plam* < 1287287829 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*palm < 1287287835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts singing "Maybe, This Was a Bad Idea" < 1287287838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooooooh, no < 1287287840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i warned you < 1287287846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh whatever < 1287287851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*4859958e@*.72.89.149.142 < 1287287865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was unexpected. < 1287287878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if i say that it was unexpected to me too, i'll be next < 1287287882 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a delightful divertimento for the evening, what? < 1287287886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll utilise the use-mention distinction in the above line < 1287287912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287287913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels torn < 1287287930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I know nothing about USB < 1287287930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just feels confused :P < 1287287939 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who does? < 1287287947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's asking questions about USB, and I want to help < 1287287950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm utterly clueless < 1287287972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So tell him you don't know? < 1287287976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1287287980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I am... not sure ... that would stop him ... yeah. < 1287287993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I mentioned a place that I thought would know < 1287288029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tisk tisk :P < 1287288050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write up some guidelines to give to people before bringing them here < 1287288064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: To be absolutely frank... < 1287288071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure he would have comprehended them. < 1287288074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or listened to them if he did. < 1287288078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1287288082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Frank < 1287288084 0 :Frank!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely this dude. < 1287288086 0 :Frank!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1287288128 0 :catseye1!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-199.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287288147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do wish elliott would have been more polite to a newbie until he _proved_ himself rude. i was tempted to kickban both. < 1287288172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have enough experience with sgeo's friends. ok so the first "goodbye" was unwarranted < 1287288175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then he used "u" < 1287288181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287288182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : u dont have any code idea < 1287288186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he had said like < 1287288194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so u dont have any ideas for the usb interface code?" < 1287288214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...no, sorry, i just can't imagine anyone even vaguely worthwhile saying that line. < 1287288225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to kickban me, i'm collecting them < 1287288251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that he might have assumed that I already described what he wanted before he came here < 1287288301 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287288308 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have? < 1287288310 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287288312 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1287288413 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on some level, it is sad that modern computers have such high-level interfaces to the outside world that you cannot start to use unless you buy some communicator package, or understand an overcomplicated spec < 1287288436 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperintegration. < 1287288455 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, so what < 1287288485 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to control hardware, learn PIC < 1287288558 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of good books on microcontrollers, and the smell of solder is unbeatable! < 1287288578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are you drunk or tired? < 1287288584 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bit of both. < 1287288597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Anyway, _I'm_ tired. Good night. < 1287288601 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i miss the smell of solder < 1287288635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how goes 10.10 < 1287288681 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yer just lucky i haven't waxed poetical about adventure games. OH 10.10 still has... a half hour??? bah. < 1287288715 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had to make it the full 650M. < 1287288728 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't stop at 250M like netbsd. < 1287288730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: kitten will be, like, 100 mb livecd. :p < 1287288733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 200 mb < 1287288736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mib that is < 1287288737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1287288739 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice! < 1287288752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really needs to eat < 1287288774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it'll basically just be the core + the default-ish configuration of programs constituting the "desktop environment" (or maybe just xfce :P) + a browser + the installer tool < 1287288783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it doesn't have to include all the packages in the system, because they're installed from the network < 1287288789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which also means it always installs the latest version) < 1287288790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someday I'm going to introduce someone who won't be a trainwreck in this channel < 1287288800 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i used xfce once, after blackbox. < 1287288803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it just has to be the default graphical environment, a browser of some sort, and the installer. < 1287288805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1287288807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 - 200 mib. < 1287288819 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if only X wasn't an architectural nightmare. < 1287288820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably closer to 100. < 1287288822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :150? < 1287288823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ugh, yeah. < 1287288843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: there's smallx/tinyx but that's not really... maintained at all and it's ancient < 1287288846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a proof of concept < 1287288851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: there's kdrive which i'll probably use by default < 1287288856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: which is now part of xorg, but: < 1287288861 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i tried to fork svgalib once, but it was already obsolete (my ostensible goal was to get it working on dfly, and to clean it up) < 1287288862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: basically every server has one set of drivers < 1287288864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have Xvesa < 1287288867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just uses vesa < 1287288873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a generic keyboard/mouse drive < 1287288874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*driver < 1287288877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty damn small < 1287288882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you have Xfbdev, uses the framebuffer < 1287288888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's Xfoo for a handful of cards < 1287288894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not like nvidia or ati or intel or anything that needs full X.org < 1287288902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll probably ship xvesa as the default < 1287288907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the bloat comes from libx11 though < 1287288908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1287288909 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the X windows protocol reminds me of the optic nerve (er, what R.D. said about the optic nerve in... the blind watchmaker, i think) < 1287288927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen "R.D." before :) < 1287288930 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you'd never design it that way, but that's what evolved, so that's what we have < 1287288935 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Richard Dawkins0 < 1287288942 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(finding it hard to type :) < 1287288943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but X11 was designed! < 1287288944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the worst thing < 1287288949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YES. < 1287288966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: on his livejournal stanislav posted that he was switching majors to biology < 1287288968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone ever had anything good to say about X? < 1287288970 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we have vesa. < 1287288974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he could accept useless complexity from nature < 1287288976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not from people < 1287288979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointless, whatever < 1287288985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes. they were all on crack at the time < 1287288995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they called it the X11 specification meeting < 1287289002 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is X11 so bad? Yes, most client implementations are bad... < 1287289011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: As is the server architecture. < 1287289014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is the network protocol. < 1287289016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As are the two libraries. < 1287289033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.. how does Windows work> < 1287289035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287289041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It has the GUI in the kernel. < 1287289042 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most X11 clients synchronize way way too much. < 1287289048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLIBBER < 1287289057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel has window management functionality in a separate GUI module, and also GUI widget functions that draw inside these windows. < 1287289060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all done at kernel level. < 1287289071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also why Windows' GUI is -- well, was -- fast and responsive. < 1287289074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially compared to X11. < 1287289076 0 :catseye1!~catseye@adsl-99-96-162-188.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287289086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi catseye1 < 1287289100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also means no choice < 1287289106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No changing to a different window manager < 1287289115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well there's windowblinds. ha! < 1287289131 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that keeps happening < 1287289142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye1: zionists < 1287289157 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AND "nordics" < 1287289173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wusGIl3v044 dear GOD. < 1287289213 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287289221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going to murder me. < 1287289251 0 :catseye1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1287289259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/cyclist-friend-explains-necessity-of-35-socks,18259/ < 1287289261 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my internet has decided to be ass tonight, it seems < 1287289262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW < 1287289300 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully i am not AT work, at 10:21PM on a Saturday... < 1287289322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TEXT CANNOT BE NSFW < 1287289340 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, onion is onion < 1287289352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, never know if any easily offended children snuck on here recently < 1287289361 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in the midwest. It is available, free, from metal boxes, on the street corners. < 1287289379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then i hope they get offended < 1287289396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the onion start with the title and write with the article, and by god does it show. < 1287289418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HOLY SHIT, MAN WALKS ON FUCKING MOON" was excellent though. < 1287289447 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah. < 1287289617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: anyway software sucks. isn't that something? < 1287289629 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Zoombah! < 1287289640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ... totally < 1287289649 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going for something more Douglas-Adams-like, but that was... what came out. < 1287289658 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Freeow." < 1287289674 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "Foop." < 1287289731 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287289732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo is a p cool dude < 1287289767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh invites mrons to chanell and doesnt afraid of anything? < 1287289805 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh seems less elitist and..etc. < 1287289812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: explain why these aren't in C: < 1287289814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ITEMS(a) (sizeof(a) / sizeof((a)[0])) < 1287289814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define FOREACH(i,a) for ((i) = 0; (i) < ITEMS(a); (i)++) < 1287289815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: go! < 1287289839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Seriously? You say how your channels that you won't tell us about are better then you call someone less elitist than us for inviting an abject moron? < 1287289841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... come on. < 1287289859 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287289877 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you can #define them? < 1287289900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you can #define an awful lot of stuff in C :P < 1287289911 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is pretty cool, but not perfect. but imperfect in a way that is... dealable-with. < 1287289933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: come on? i'm already here, and yep you summed up my position pretty accurately. < 1287289954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The hypocrisy is immense. < 1287289957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287289987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're not cool enough for us" -- elitism; "He's less elitist than you guys, he invited an idiot who couldn't spell and insulted people rather than saying anything coherent" -- an insane level of anti-elitism < 1287289989 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287290025 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you mischaracterized it that time < 1287290043 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "not cool enough" should be "too assholish and argumentative" < 1287290052 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all of you!) < 1287290124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: did you even see the guy who came in? < 1287290149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you seriously saying we should have talked to him? despite the fact that he didn't say anything coherent or even vaguely on-topic and just came in because Sgeo had no idea what to do with him? < 1287290244 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@32.167.166.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287290263 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I mention that I know him irl? < 1287290295 0 :hyper_cube!4b63451a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.99.69.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287290304 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287290310 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo < 1287290314 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are u there < 1287290319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287290322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: you were banned. < 1287290326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are circumventing a ban. < 1287290327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease. < 1287290330 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am smarten then u < 1287290337 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elli < 1287290341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. let me repeat this in words you can understand < 1287290342 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\dont be suprise < 1287290344 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyper, please don't get into this argument < 1287290344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: fuck off you moron. < 1287290354 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has not the number of faces nor the number of palms sufficient for this situation < 1287290360 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, I'm begging you, don't insult the regulars < 1287290378 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i will leave < 1287290389 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just illustrtating how smart i am < 1287290395 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it's worth, elliott regularly runs circles around me mentally < 1287290408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs in circles < 1287290410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a DAWG. < 1287290411 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evading bans is not co sidered smart here < 1287290422 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, this is not about smart. This is about civil and sane. OK? < 1287290436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that < 1287290469 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evading bans is a sign of a) nonzero intelligence and b) zero social skill < 1287290480 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was hyper banned? Or just kicked? < 1287290483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: non-zero perhaps, but not non-infinitesimal < 1287290485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: banned. < 1287290489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: You must be a moron. < 1287290493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan sets ban on *!*4859958e@*.72.89.149.142 < 1287290493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan has kicked hyper_cube from #esoteric (hyper_cube) < 1287290501 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there are certain minimum levels of smart involved in "civil", but you get the idea. < 1287290503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that has been proved to excess earlier. < 1287290507 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could have expired < 1287290512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: no it couldn't < 1287290514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides < 1287290516 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats wierd sgeo bye technology is here to be hornase and share do < 1287290517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on a webchat < 1287290524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the webchat < 1287290528 0 :hyper_cube!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287290529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: infinitesimals don't exist :( < 1287290530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyper_cube: can you hurry up with the going away thing? < 1287290531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when did dotted quads have four dots? < 1287290532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the never going back thing < 1287290533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1287290539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coming < 1287290541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure they do < 1287290553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_analysis < 1287290555 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exist". < 1287290566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way more beautiful expression of calculus etc :) < 1287290569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*harnessed and *shared I think < 1287290583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now taking bets on how long until he comes back < 1287290595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, I did not ask him to come back < 1287290596 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that guy is annoying. sgeo is not as annoying as that guy. how did you find a guy like that sgeo? < 1287290605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're evading a ban, you are *certainly* missing the point. If you want back in the channel, demonstrate to an op that you will behave. Otherwise, fuck off. < 1287290626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've evaded bans here! admittedly the bans were ones i asked an op for after +o came and my insanity set in. < 1287290642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but that's different. < 1287290689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a person who asked for a ban a very long time ago in a channel and it's enforced to this day. He attempts to join every now and then and gets kbed by the bot. < 1287290711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: has he asked an op to revoke it? < 1287290717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then i conclude that the ops are basically dicks. < 1287290725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AFAIK he has not < 1287290741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no op has gone "oh that ban was dumb let's remove it" < 1287290748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hey coppro HOW IS MY MATHNEWS ARTICLE DOING IN THE PIPELINE < 1287290753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1287290778 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to ask him how many vertices he had. < 1287290783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[coppro has an epileptic fit and implodes] < 1287290788 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that's the wrong direction to go. < 1287290802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: heh < 1287290804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a while to get that < 1287290865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. I made a new recording of Op. 10 but it didn't come out very well >_> < 1287290880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: re-record op 13 < 1287290889 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... < 1287290920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re-record Op. 0 < 1287290933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands Gregor a time machine so that there can *be* an Op. 0 < 1287290971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I once did something really stupid in a channel < 1287290975 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: music has been redefined as "any action". Start tossing pillowcasefuls of ball bearings onto construction sites plz < 1287290982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said it was stupid enough to be kickbanned, asked for ops and they gave it to me < 1287290996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I did actually kickban myself with them, but someone unbanned me soon after) < 1287291009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whatdidyoudowhatdidyouDO < 1287291022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAS TOBE DONE??? < 1287291022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set a puzzle for which the intended answer was incorrect < 1287291034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when is that kickban-worthy :P < 1287291044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result, missed it when people got the actually right answer < 1287291227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sick enough to make reading a book a hard task. God dammit. < 1287291243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My options are: waste time web browsing. < 1287291249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do too much of that when I'm healthy! < 1287291267 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: software sucks because two reasons. one it is intrinsically hard because of hating poblem ETC. two, people are jerkasses who don't care if they've done right. < 1287291279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the entirety of TV Tropes so you never have to waste time on it again < 1287291284 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*halting problem. < 1287291301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not just TV Tropes. < 1287291302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do IRC bans expire? < 1287291305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's a major problem. < 1287291307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the concept of a hating problem < 1287291312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, they have to be removed by an op < 1287291318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by services, but services don't unless they're told to < 1287291326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By an op. < 1287291329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some really large channels have an opbot whose main purpose is expiring bans < 1287291333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so Robin, how long until it's implemented < 1287291348 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, i liked the hating problem too. < 1287291389 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, a long time probably, although you might have guessed, pixley + message passing + modules is what i'm now thinking about for a base language. < 1287291403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh ha. < 1287291428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you might want to take the route of "it's an OS with its own little simulated memory space and display but it's running in user space" thing. i find that a bit weird, but < 1287291432 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if Nock can be considered a decent core language (though it can't be, really, can it??), then... < 1287291441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it does let you prototype high-level OS ideas really easily < 1287291451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well with Nock you have jets which are basically cheating, but :) < 1287291469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: sounds like a standard example in Ramsey theory < 1287291498 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, once you are able to import symbols and send messages to and from processes which (to you) are just interfaces, you have what are effectively "jets" too, so... < 1287291523 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be how i would handle that, anyway) < 1287291536 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1287291537 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM MADE OF FAIL < 1287291550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Concurred. < 1287291562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : catseye: sounds like a standard example in Ramsey theory < 1287291563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287291569 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tho to be *made* of fail is actually something of a feat, so yeah! < 1287291572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the cord on my headphones is giving out, causing them to switch to mono left channel (AKA bass channel), the treble sucks! < 1287291584 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just about to google Ramsey theory actually < 1287291611 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WAS DISTRACTED BY GIMME SLOW PIZZA VIDEO AARGH < 1287291678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMMEEEE PIZZAAAAAAAAA < 1287291682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stares into your soul* < 1287291698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what sounds like that < 1287291700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (example) < 1287291710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ramsey theory gave us graham's number < 1287291753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, you have six people, each pair either loves each other or hates each other < 1287291760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove that there's some set of three people that mutually love or mutually hate < 1287291763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh hating problem ok < 1287291768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is /the/ standard Ramsey theory example < 1287291874 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i get that much, but yes, what sounds like this? an OS based on a sliver of scheme with some toys pasted in? < 1287291911 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toys = comminication mechanisms, really < 1287291933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: he never said anything looked liek that < 1287291935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1287291936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "hating problem" < 1287291940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: link me to robin again? < 1287291963 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ais523 | catseye: sounds like a standard example in Ramsey theory" unclear what this is in reference to < 1287291970 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's out of date! but i can try to find it again < 1287291980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: to "hating theory" < 1287291981 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like VERY out ofd ate < 1287291983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PROBLEM < 1287291986 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHH < 1287291986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS N TIMES < 1287292002 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hating theory, friends, strangers. OH KAY! < 1287292022 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PROBLEM too < 1287292023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you saying you liked the hating problem too < 1287292100 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://catseye.tc/lab/robin/robin.html WAY out of date but there you go < 1287292133 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as a mathematician, what do you see as more fundamental: multiplication, or addition? < 1287292143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication makes more sense than addition! < 1287292145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hink < 1287292146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i think < 1287292155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ais523 isn't exactly a mathematician, is he... < 1287292163 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication is multiset addition over the multisets of prime factors. < 1287292167 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm extracting his mathematician aspect < 1287292168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're doing electrical engineering right? < 1287292175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: computer science nowadays < 1287292177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're crazy and masochistic < 1287292181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh you came over to the light side < 1287292184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the electronic engineering is finished, I'm qualified in that now < 1287292202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a computer scientist, multiplication feels more fundamental < 1287292211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to implement in terms of Church numerals, for instance < 1287292219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah addition is like < 1287292223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to decompose the number on the right < 1287292225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stack it on to the left < 1287292225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, with Church numerals, even exponentiation is easier than addition) < 1287292228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas multiplication is just... < 1287292230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers are atomic < 1287292234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't feel like you're deconstructing them < 1287292242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using the one on the right (or left, whatever) as a loop < 1287292247 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm on the side of multiplication too. even in an abstract setting. which is a little weird, since it can be defined with addition. < 1287292250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"M, N times" < 1287292269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with addition... you basically have to phrase it as taking little Ses off a peano numeral and stacking them on to another < 1287292272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just weird. < 1287292274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLC manages to put buttons in the taskbar preview thingy? < 1287292300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so you've given up on ρ? < 1287292306 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, fundamental theory of arithmetic, and all. it's like there are two ways to get to any integer. but one is boring and the other is exciting. < 1287292325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*theorem, presumably < 1287292329 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, sort of. i mean, it has spun off a number of interesting sub-projects. < 1287292339 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes *theorem < 1287292342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's only a theory!" < 1287292349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like GRAVITY and EVILUTION." < 1287292360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: is stupidernestine still there? < 1287292374 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't thought about that in a while < 1287292389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a+b = ln [e^a * e^b], what's a?b = ln [e^a + e^b] < 1287292398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does ? behave? < 1287292419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287292421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it behaves like ln(e^a + e^b) < 1287292439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's base dependent. The multuplication thing works just as well in other bases < 1287292444 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have taken me a while, but yes it behaves something like that < 1287292477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys are no fun < 1287292505 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't think it's "clean" < 1287292536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any chance that addition is just repeated ? < 1287292537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287292574 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, take a = 1 and b = 1 < 1287292586 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp(1)+exp(1) < 1287292588 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.4365636569180902 < 1287292598 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : log(exp(1)+exp(1)) < 1287292599 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6931471805599452 < 1287292606 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get < 1287292629 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 ? 1 ~= 1.7 < 1287292634 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not + < 1287292643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sucks < 1287292655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's APPROXIMATITION < 1287292684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2?2 = 2 + log(2) < 1287292699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10?10 = 10 + log(2) < 1287292701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see a similarity? < 1287292724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10?50 = 10 + log(1 + e^40) < 1287292740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10?12 = 10 + log(1 + e^2) < 1287292741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: conclusion: < 1287292751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a?b = a + log(1 + e^(b-a)) < 1287292783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you get there from the defintion? < 1287292790 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it *safe* < 1287292795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wolfram alpha < 1287292800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plug in random valuse < 1287292801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*values < 1287292803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the alternate form < 1287292804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice pattern < 1287292820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we prove it? < 1287292837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this a weird true but unprovable thing? < 1287292840 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. properties of log? < 1287292841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we can prove it. < 1287292849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true but unprovable things are 345897589375x more complicated than this and rare. < 1287292866 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but "we" are easily distracted < 1287292873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1287292898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway uh, i can't think of a useful use for this operation < 1287292899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln(e^a + e^b) = ln(2e^a +e^b-e^a) < 1287292902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't to say there isn't one < 1287292904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, say log, not ln < 1287292906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln is for losers < 1287292913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned it as ln < 1287292921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log is base 10 < 1287292924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287292926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really isn't < 1287292956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln is freaky engineering talk < 1287292982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or CS < 1287292986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted something "below" addition, so to speak < 1287292999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'd say ln is only common in the rubbish, software-engineering brand of CS. < 1287292999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CS, log is normally to base 2 because that's the one that matters < 1287293018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno about that < 1287293021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say log_2 < 1287293023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it just so happens that log_e is not very useful in CS. But it would be called ln whenever that occurs < 1287293039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the running time of mergesort is O(n * log n) etc. < 1287293045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true. < 1287293055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs log when you have kolgomorov complexity! (what?) < 1287293056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in O notation, the base is irrelevant < 1287293091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: true, but not for other bound notations, and by convention log is base 2 in those as well < 1287293129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as little o < 1287293133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know the other notations :( < 1287293267 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is more "natural" than that 2.7 thing, in CS :0 < 1287293316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to start referring to sinusoidal time on the basis that O(x) = O(sin x) < 1287293317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad humans live on timescales where basic computation doesn't take up our natural lives < 1287293326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers should use base e! < 1287293327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1287293336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does O(x) = O(sin x)? < 1287293346 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: O(sin x) *weird* < 1287293359 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALGORITHMS DO NOT DO THAT < 1287293373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... It varies between 1 and 0 time sinusoidally? < 1287293373 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, they totally SHOULD < 1287293384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 1 and -1! < 1287293390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1287293394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(2 + sin x) < 1287293397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can sometimes do time travel. < 1287293401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: same set < 1287293406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287293408 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalence class < 1287293419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big-O defines equivalence classes, which is cool < 1287293429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it so happens, sin x and x are in the same such class < 1287293438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(sin x), i approve of this < 1287293444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are they the same such class? < 1287293445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it happen. < 1287293448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make an algorithm with that complexity < 1287293467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding an item in a linked list. < 1287293467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it follows simply from the definition of big-O < 1287293467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE < 1287293476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...what? < 1287293479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Constant factors are irrelevant by definition. < 1287293480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that O(sin x) < 1287293481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1287293483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : as it so happens, sin x and x are in the same such class < 1287293490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but < 1287293497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(sin x) has certain connotations. < 1287293499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to someone who sees it. < 1287293518 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but math doesn't care < 1287293520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's amusing < 1287293529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But big-O says you're wrong and that yo mamma so fat that she has O(x^x) complexity. < 1287293547 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although actually the algorithmic notations were invented for things other than algorithms) < 1287293554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n^934873489374983749347934) < 1287293556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed < 1287293559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make sense to talk about n complexity or sin n complexity, without the O? < 1287293575 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you *can* < 1287293581 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one *does* < 1287293588 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least, rarely < 1287293594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It'll probably be considered a shorthand for big-O notation. < 1287293594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is it's ambiguous < 1287293603 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it will be assumed to be big-O < 1287293604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, it's ambiguous. < 1287293606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1287293606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. We want an algorithm with a complexity of the form a + b sin c*n < 1287293608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1287293612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could just as easily be big-Omega < 1287293613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Connection reset by peer review < 1287293618 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting into the area of "This program executed this many instructions on this architecture" < 1287293637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I want *that* to be sinusoidal. < 1287293642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287293642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I just abstracted that away! < 1287293786 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just joined #inform < 1287293796 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only one there besides me is ChanServ' < 1287293879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "besides me" implies something that happens to be false -- namely, your presense there < 1287293910 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: am big confused < 1287293985 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my presence there was not false. and I don't see how "besides me" implies something false. < 1287294006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I guess at the time you said it you were there < 1287294011 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287294163 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287294173 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there is an ##electronics < 1287294203 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm. < 1287294205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bananas. < 1287294206 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a million jillion users < 1287294318 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor knows about the bananas. < 1287294351 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the power! < 1287294353 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of /list! < 1287295051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I apologize, I made a typo earlier < 1287295067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not x and sin x are not in the same big-O complexity class < 1287295070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, sin x and 1 are < 1287295074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I meant all along < 1287295086 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to test 10.10-on-a-usb-stick. < 1287295097 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6 < 1287295149 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1287295242 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287295541 0 :DrNinja!~ubuntu@adsl-99-96-162-188.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287295560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. MCNinja? < 1287295566 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it totally works. i am booted into ubuntu 10.10 right now. < 1287295591 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... i need to consider what to do next. < 1287295599 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it thinks it's 5:06 AM. < 1287295607 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID MACHINE. < 1287295613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T Unix SysV bootable USB disk! < 1287295630 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe but also no. < 1287295631 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287295698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :忍者医師?(ninnsìȳaisi?)[ninjaishi?]{Dr. Ninja?} < 1287295881 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287295995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need more enclosing punctuation. < 1287296020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1287296051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. On my keyboard, just (){}[]<>. Adding compose, I get... “”‘’‹›«», I think. < 1287296066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BenFranklin < 1287296068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have compose keys for Japanese quotes? < 1287296147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. IME... 「」【】『』〔〕〈〉<>《》(){} < 1287296163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IT COMES UP < 1287296347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70%! < 1287296451 0 :BenFranklin!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SgeoMcSgeo < 1287296554 0 :SgeoMcSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE WAS AN AXE COP/DR. MCNINJA CROSSOVER? < 1287296561 0 :SgeoMcSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED OF THIS? < 1287297361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know why Enhanced CWEB does not work on FreeBSD, apparently? < 1287297418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work fine on Windows and on Linux, but apparently it does not work on FreeBSD. I hope to correct this problem. < 1287297525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you give the example why more enclosing punctuation is needed? Depending what you do, perhaps things like <|....|> or (|....|) can be used? < 1287298484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: those sorts of punctuation are usable in perl 6 for user-defined sorts of parentheses < 1287298490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid clashes with the built in parentheses < 1287298495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, () [] {} <> «» < 1287298526 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you use other unicode enclosing punctuations? < 1287298540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they just don't have default meanings like those five do < 1287298545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to define them explicitly < 1287298569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's also '' "" // but those aren't exactly enclosing < 1287299904 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287301626 0 :SgeoMcSgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287302399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1287302400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1287302913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287306272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287306511 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1287306520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1287306628 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1287306663 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287306727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287306766 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287308311 0 :Ijophone!~rooms@190.43.39.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287308432 0 :Ijophone!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287310424 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287310448 0 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287311922 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1287311924 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1287313153 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1287314659 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1287315812 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287316063 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287316195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287317585 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287317612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest32752 < 1287321022 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287321527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* catseye has not the number of faces nor the number of palms sufficient for this situation < 1287321543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pictures catseye looking like an indian god < 1287321783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what as the context? < 1287321818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person i banned came back to gloat < 1287321865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after i went to sleep < 1287322003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately he eventually listened to Sgeo, who knows him < 1287322746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:24:51 Sgeo: true, but not for other bound notations, and by convention log is base 2 in those as well < 1287322749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:25:29 such as little o < 1287322767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the base is quite irrelevant for o as well. constant multiplier. < 1287322857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:30:19 big-O defines equivalence classes, which is cool < 1287322857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:30:29 as it so happens, sin x and x are in the same such class < 1287322903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for limits at zero. not for complexity, which uses limits at infinity. < 1287322982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, certainly not if it's to hold for all x, large and small < 1287323253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rather, sin x and 1 are < 1287323256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1287323576 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287324117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc XD < 1287324173 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-130.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287324479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287325010 0 :Quadresce`!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1287325012 0 :Quadresce`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287325178 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.105.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287325256 0 :Quadrescence!~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1287325316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xR < 1287325319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1287325570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikilawyering at its best: < 1287325570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:Two_other_uses < 1287326595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One Is Enough, a 2D platform game in which a communist ball needs to convert capitalist balls into fellow communist balls. More and more capitalist balls will be issued by the bank, creating new enemies." < 1287326691 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of 2D platform games, i played through a flash game called "The Tall Stump" last night. It was quite challenging. < 1287326773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you were stumped? < 1287326834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i beat it < 1287326843 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only found 3 hats though < 1287326938 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently if you play all the way through without pausing, you can submit your time to the high score list < 1287326968 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287326969 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you find all the hats, you can unlock the wearable clock, which deducts a minute if you finish wearing it < 1287327132 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1287327196 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287327208 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1287327793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287327902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1287328117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which was the multicast daemon you recommended? was it mrd6 or some other? < 1287328797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrd6 i believe, yes. < 1287328798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check logs. < 1287328986 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287329133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, mrd6; I've heard of it, though not tried it out. < 1287329192 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287329453 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287329768 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287330139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting kolgomorov complexity question: < 1287330161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a program that outputs (a program that outputs X) be smaller than the smallest program that outputs X? < 1287330223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(language may vary but nothing tweaked specifically to make this true) < 1287330247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you could have a "zoop" instruction that outputs for(i=0;i<1000;i++){print("hi")} < 1287330504 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe this to be possible < 1287330566 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if you are writing the program for the GoL UCC that replicates the same < 1287330596 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program that builds the program into the machine is necessarily much smaller than the machine itself by any reasonable definition < 1287330617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well kolgomorov complexity is not well-defined there. < 1287330628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"smaller than the *smallest* program that outputs X" is important < 1287330648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's saying: K(X where run(X) = Y) < K(Y) < 1287330654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an interesting property about the language < 1287330675 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was not offering a proof, just an intuition that leads me to believe it is possible < 1287330676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, any X can be used there < 1287330678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaargh this makefile makes me want to headdesk. It uses @strip in the rule for linking the program. So that is why make CFLAGS='-g' did not work.... < 1287330681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a super-long program that outputs Y < 1287330690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the @ is especially nasty < 1287330692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the program outputting X is smaller than the *smallest* program outputting Y < 1287330693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ok < 1287330703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nasty. < 1287330707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1287330709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: makefiles should have DEBUG flags < 1287330715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBUG=1 turns off optimisation, turns on -g and doesn't strip < 1287330717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make DEBUG=1 < 1287330750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah and well, programs shouldn't strip at all when compiling them, only perhaps when installing them < 1287330763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. i like to think of installs as just a copy < 1287330765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it should never ever call strip and hide it from output with @ < 1287330769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you can make it run from inside the build tree, it should work the same < 1287330776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strpping on a non-debug compile is reasonable methinks < 1287330778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but yeah the @ thing is evil < 1287330782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's doing < 1287330787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@echo STRIP foo < 1287330789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@strip ... foo < 1287330792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't < 1287330794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite common in makefiles < 1287330794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287330810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't even consistent in hiding calls to gcc and such < 1287330813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just strip < 1287330816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1287330822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1287330826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sorry. I was wrong: < 1287330830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC := @echo "[Compiling] $$@"; $(CC) < 1287330834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so utterly stupid < 1287330843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Compiling]? seriously? < 1287330849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to "CC" < 1287330854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and assigning it to CC, wow. < 1287330856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see the end < 1287330856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna barf now < 1287330862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1287330865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that only works thanks to := < 1287330867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to "CC file" < 1287330868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the output < 1287330873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did we need to make it longer :P < 1287330881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since otherwise CC would resolved at use < 1287330887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::= forces it to resolve it at assignment < 1287330888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1287330913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as a "side effect" := will also prevent make CC=clang or such from working < 1287330917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here it works < 1287330919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate < 1287330923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since it is used in the override < 1287330927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work here < 1287330928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1287330952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway clang doesn't work on that. It complains about unknown option -fshort-enums < 1287330958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, you can't just ignore that option < 1287330960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would break ABI < 1287330976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNS = -W -Wall -pedantic -Wshadow -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-align -Wwrite-strings -Waggregate-return -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Winline -Wbad-function-cast -fshort-enums -fstrict-aliasing -fno-common -Wpacked -Wpadded < 1287330977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1287330982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't only warns < 1287330986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ABI changing stuff too < 1287330993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh, why < 1287331011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What is this program with such WTF-class makefile? < 1287331012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fno-common? seriously < 1287331109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ecmh. A ipv6 MLDv1/v2 multicast routing daemon, which according to some googling is what sixxs recommends for POPs that can do multicast but aren't connected directly to m6bone, mrd6 apparently doesn't work very well there. < 1287331121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you trust sixxs. < 1287331145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't in general, and I think I'm going to give mrd6 a try and see if it can be made to work with it < 1287331167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe whatever bug made it fail before is now fixed < 1287331203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like ipv6. < 1287331213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: remind me to switch to Bogons sometime < 1287331216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :P < 1287331233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wish they were cheaper! < 1287331245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh btw, where you here when I got ipsec tunneling to work? < 1287331250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for VPN < 1287331250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1287331267 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let's say you have a program A that outputs "Hello World" and the listing of program B and program B outputs "Hello" and a listing of program A. Is there any reason to believe that the shortest programs that satisfy this description are the same length? < 1287331278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, well, it is crazy under linux. You would expect most tunnels to use some sort of "pseudo interface" or such right? < 1287331306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hmm. no. < 1287331321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: linux uses a daemon? a kernel module pretending to be a daemon? < 1287331322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a walrus? < 1287331335 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Linux has TUN and TAP interfaces... < 1287331402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, linux uses some strange routing policy rules and no pseudo interfaces for ipsec tunnels. If you use wireshark on eth0 (assuming that is where the tunnel comes in to you) it will show the packages twice: once as the encrypted package and then a second time as the decrypted one. < 1287331430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that for plain old transport mode wireshark just sees the encrypted packages < 1287331445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, wireshark on a third host just sees encrypted for both cases) < 1287331517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is a route like " via metric 0 proto static". Thanks to the magic policy stuff this nonsense route somehow works < 1287331547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so completely and utterly crazy < 1287331555 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION --> < 1287331576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawl < 1287331595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and if you use the network manager vpn thingy on the client, you need to add that route by hand < 1287331601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't get added, it did for the server < 1287331632 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proto static? < 1287331635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and talking to the rest of the lan is of course doomed unless you set up a route via the VPN server on each computer. I have to figure out how to do that. < 1287331638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes < 1287331660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, the daemon adds/removes it as needed. Except that fails with network-manager < 1287331665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS < 1287331675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the Elliott nmaps His Router time again! < 1287331677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, since it neither adds nor removes it < 1287331683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to let that proprietary piece of crap beat me < 1287331688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it one of those that likes to crash from that? < 1287331693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it didn't last time! i think. < 1287331697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1287331707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know that my previous router, the Orange Livebox, was hackable by: < 1287331712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Downloading a backup of the configuration < 1287331718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- XORing all the bytes with a magic number < 1287331721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Unpacking it (it's a tar!) < 1287331724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Modifying the init script < 1287331733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- XORing it the other way < 1287331738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Upload the "backed up configuration" < 1287331745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*put - Re-pack as a tar above the XORing it the other way step < 1287331745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I nmap mine it often decides to introduce random malfuction in the wlan. Like refusing DHCP from some wlan clients, or sending bogus responses < 1287331752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I got files on to the system but never got dropbear working. < 1287331761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that was nmaping from the ethernet side < 1287331765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287331778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this thing has a configuration backup/restore too < 1287331783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hopefully there's something i can do < 1287331790 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is that standard IPSec or some propiteriary VPN crap? < 1287331798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, last I remember it decided it wanted to send the completely wrong standard gateway info to any wlan nics from intel < 1287331810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote Management < 1287331810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1287331810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote management: On Off < 1287331813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is just an absurd failure mode < 1287331813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well hello there, what's this then? < 1287331827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it looks like it exposes the http configuration interface to the web < 1287331828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L O L < 1287331838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can configure what IP can access it though!) < 1287331861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "to the web"? < 1287331869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as in < 1287331869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean to the wan? < 1287331871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my ip < 1287331873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287331874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the web < 1287331879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as [myip]:8080 < 1287331889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password-protected and you can select that only one given IP can view it < 1287331890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as opposed to "to the gopher"? < 1287331896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...it's an HTTP web interface.s < 1287331898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop benig stupid < 1287331900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s$// < 1287331907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I think "to the web" is weird :P < 1287331918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you mean "to non-LAN"? < 1287331924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN TO THE WEB < 1287331926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE IT EXPOSES IT < 1287331930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ON 192.168.1.1:80 < 1287331934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287331939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT 91.104.104.157:8080 < 1287331940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1287331965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is what I meant with "to the wan" < 1287331969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wide area network < 1287331973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still < 1287331976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BRN E1" -- near the end of the backup file < 1287331992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287332004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like a shifted tar header or anything < 1287332026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wan is the common technical term for external interface of a customer-premises router < 1287332033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'ma nmap this shit. < 1287332034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meh < 1287332063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -sU: UDP Scan < 1287332067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if nmap uses this by default < 1287332068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1287332085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287332092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would it, it scans tcp normally < 1287332093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not udp < 1287332098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does -sU scan both? < 1287332099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just udp < 1287332112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just udp of course, how could it do both? < 1287332122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by scanning tcp and then udp...? < 1287332127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, default is -sS if root, otherwise -sT < 1287332135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that would be two separate scans < 1287332152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo nmap -v -A -sV 192.168.1.1 < 1287332153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring't on < 1287332160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-sV is badly named iirc < 1287332170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it isn't really a port scan in that sense < 1287332172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? oh well. < 1287332176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't used to detect open ports < 1287332177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want as much info as i can get < 1287332182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, i did it to detect < 1287332183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used to probe open ports to find what they are < 1287332184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :service/version info < 1287332185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287332186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i want < 1287332188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it said :) < 1287332200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but it shouldn't be -s then < 1287332208 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1287332209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since all the other -s are to detect open ports < 1287332221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and OS scan is not -sO < 1287332234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just illogical name of option name < 1287332245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scanning 4 services on SE572 (192.168.1.1) < 1287332246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum de dum < 1287332252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can take ages < 1287332256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time i tried this iirc it gave wild guesses that turned out to be totally wrong < 1287332263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to what the ports have on them < 1287332280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also fun thing: it tries to detect IRC by faking a connection and then quitting, with the realname field "nmap wuz here" < 1287332286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve < 1287332305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet some servers try and autoban that :)) < 1287332320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completed Service scan at 16:17, 119.42s elapsed (4 services on 1 host) < 1287332321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you didn't freaking tell me what they are! < 1287332340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i have to wait until the end? < 1287332340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes indeed < 1287332346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TCP/IP fingerprint:" fun fun < 1287332365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80/tcp open tcpwrapped < 1287332365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :443/tcp open https? < 1287332365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9000/tcp open tcpwrapped < 1287332365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000/tcp open snet-sensor-mgmt? < 1287332365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is tcpwrapped, anyway? < 1287332367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I saw this yesterday when an oper managed to auto-zline himself when trying to scan our servers for open ports. It tried too many times to quickly and server added a zline for 15 minutes. I guess he will be more careful when doing the security testing next time ;) < 1287332385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how did it not identify 80 as http? < 1287332399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1287332417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :9000 is http. inexplicably. < 1287332424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tcpwrapped... hm.... I very very much doubt that. Unless it runs linux < 1287332445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they both seem to be http < 1287332449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::80 definitely is < 1287332449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and :9000 is too < 1287332457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact :9000 seems to be a crazy-slow version of :80 < 1287332457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or i trashed its network stack by probing it...) < 1287332477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now port 10000, that sounds interesting. < 1287332478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tcpwrapped is related to the hosts.deny/hosts.allow files < 1287332515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like denyhosts and fail2ban and similar auto-block-bruteforce-login-attempts use it for example < 1287332532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is an iirc for fail2ban, I only used denyhosts personally < 1287332547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail2ban always fails to ban < 1287332569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a strange name for the software I always thought < 1287332593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fail2ban seems to do iptables updates too < 1287332621 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "tcpwrapped" is printed if connection opens but remote end resets it immediately afterwards? < 1287332626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bogons.net's LLU plans have reasonable usage limits :< < 1287332633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok you can get it without < 1287332636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's £10 more a month! < 1287332646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, perhaps < 1287332659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the non-LLU plans cap out at 8 Mb/s < 1287332707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some googling (not a reliable source but meh, the suggestion seems plausible): http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-security-4/how-does-nmap-determine-a-port-is-tcpwrapped-773983/ < 1287332707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol apparently you're not allowed to run irc bots on sixxs, only humans can chat < 1287332719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressively... retarded < 1287332719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although even that's grudgingly...) < 1287332770 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The route gives other endpoints IP inside tunnel even if its different from the one tunnel goes to? < 1287332783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, guy got banned from sixxs for saying on their forums that opennic now does ipv6 < 1287332816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you used hurricane electric's tunnel broker? < 1287332873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: omg, i've lagged my connection to hell by nmapping < 1287332873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid router < 1287332888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1287332914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: question. why don't freenode offer cloaks with a bot? < 1287332915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no CTCP PING reply? < 1287332916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: no reason! < 1287332925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err they do? < 1287333082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i just got your ping now < 1287333082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and three messages < 1287333082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY RESTARTING ROUTER OK < 1287333171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOAD THE REBOOT PAGE FASTER < 1287333220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from elliott: 191.75 second(s) < 1287333221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from elliott: 180.60 second(s) < 1287333235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Connection reset by peer review < 1287333347 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287333581 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: According to docs I have found, Linux IPSEC system itself decides when to encapsulate and does not require normal IP routes (except normal connectivity to remote end of tunnel)... < 1287333601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes but you needed those absurd routes to make the ip go anywhere < 1287333619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, otherwise it wouldn't even get as far as the ipsec subsystem < 1287333649 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno about tunnel mode... Transport mode definitely doesn't have any weird routes. < 1287333657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, indeed, transport mode is sane < 1287333672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, but not very useful for my use case < 1287333696 0 :Guest32752!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1287333716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid disco-nection. < 1287333752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW: There's joke that IPSec has been sabotaged by NSA. < 1287333826 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the < 1287333831 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCO SAUNA < 1287333832 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://209.222.11.132/media/flash/d/discosquirrels.swf < 1287333894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well If I would need to keep something really secret I wouldn't use a system based on x.509 at all. I would go for openssh < 1287334065 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean sabotage that made it insecure, but sabotage that made it difficult to use... < 1287334083 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.100.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287334087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1287334089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rebooted it < 1287334092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't start the lan < 1287334093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the wlan < 1287334100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THE WHAT < 1287334132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...apparently my router's certificate is for "bear" now < 1287334133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO FIGURE < 1287334135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never was before < 1287334200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you're thinking about getting a generic cloak, though, please consider instead making a donation to Peer-Directed Projects Center. PDPC is the not-for-profit entity which runs the network. If you donate, you'll get a nice cloak by way of acknowledgement and have the satisfaction of knowing that you've helped the network and PDPC continue to grow." < 1287334231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they so do not offer cloaks via bot. < 1287334322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh *via* bot < 1287334327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you meant *to* bot < 1287334331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, via bot. right. < 1287334360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw: < 1287334365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from elliott: 191.75 second(s) < 1287334365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Ping reply from elliott: 180.60 second(s) < 1287334369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yuup. < 1287334377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you saw that then < 1287334417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, important issue with mrd6: while the daemon and the controlling tool for it are documented, the actual daemon configuration file format is not < 1287334418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Insufficient parameters for LANGUAGE. < 1287334418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- Valid languages are: en ru < 1287334450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does freenode do ssl yet? < 1287334473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since over a year by now iirc < 1287334478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, port 7000 < 1287334486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. too bad i don't see a single reason to use ssl! < 1287334496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you ask then < 1287334498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would totally encrypt all my publicly-logged conversations here < 1287334502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i almost thought i did < 1287334505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then changed my mind < 1287334508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, curiosity < 1287334511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb trying identification < 1287334513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Connection reset by peer review < 1287334522 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.100.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287334527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo it works. < 1287334562 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to annoy FRA&co? :-) < 1287334581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: FRA&co? < 1287334609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i just ask a staffer for a cloak, right? < 1287334610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Elliot: Yes < 1287334618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what is it with these crazy fuckers who don't use tab complete? < 1287334621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are illiterate? < 1287334629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i regret using this nick :D < 1287334756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or they have irc clients that use caps maybe? < 1287334763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one t < 1287334768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ? < 1287334769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless their irc client also chops off the last letter. < 1287334772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: COMPARE: < 1287334774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott < 1287334774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1287334774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliot < 1287334777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287334836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeLLLLIIOOTTTT, yeah it looks strange with just one t < 1287334865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I thought you already had a cloak? < 1287334866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi Elliot!" "It's two Ts dammit!" "Oh, sorry! Hi Eliott!" < 1287334871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope. never had. < 1287334875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY NEW EXPERIENCE FOR ME YOU UNDERSTAND < 1287334884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you read the guidelines? < 1287334895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to have elliott_ linked to your main nick in nickserv < 1287334900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1287334907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, says their faq yes < 1287334907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like no choice about it? iirc that was just a recommendation. < 1287334923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it was more than a recommendation for getting cloaks < 1287334932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or used to be at least < 1287334932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. i'll do it afterwards < 1287334939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to switch nick when a staffer's about and i've already asked < 1287334944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope they don't notice :p < 1287335044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287335044 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1287335059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA THEY DIDN'T NOTICE < 1287335063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM BREAKING THE RULES < 1287335096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i might add ghosting to my autoconnect :p < 1287335103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghost elliott, nick elliott, identify < 1287335107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287335111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, no need for elliott_! < 1287335115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: although i have nick protection on < 1287335118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like they'd last long anyway < 1287335143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mquin: I am 12. Will I get klined? < 1287335159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troll or bizarre? We report, you decide! < 1287335182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: QUICK should I work on leaden or botte < 1287335224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, what was the difference? < 1287335228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1287335230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden edits < 1287335231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :botte bots < 1287335247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, leaden. it will cause less disarray in this irc channel < 1287335276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Y'know what'd be nice? Enough hard drive space to make *remuxing* a DVD a practical archival method. < 1287335288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remuxing? < 1287335289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but, but, FUN disarray! < 1287335306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dvd pfff dvd is for LOSERS < 1287335312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, do you want botte to be the first project coded inside leaden or not? < 1287335319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Taking the bitstream out of a DVD ISO and sticking it into, say, mkv. < 1287335324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if not, then you can do botte first < 1287335341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so, how much space does that need? < 1287335343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OH TOUCHÉ < 1287335347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, surely just a few GB < 1287335355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 4 to 8 gigs per disc. < 1287335364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you think i'm crazy enough to trust my editor with my code?! < 1287335375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lolcat93: not unless we have cause to mquin: Aren't I breaking freenode policy? < 1287335377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Which actually isn't *terrible*, but it's still a bit much for 720x480 video. < 1287335391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMUX BLURAY FUUUUUUUUUCK YEAH < 1287335406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Of course, you might get it smaller if there's a lot of extra content you don't care about. < 1287335410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only temporary I presume? < 1287335430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... That's the permanent storage space of a remuxed DVD. < 1287335435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, otherwise what would the point be. Of course, I would only trust it once it seemes somewhat stable < 1287335436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like a normal DVD. < 1287335440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lolcat93: you don't appear to be mquin: I allready stated I am 12! 12 years old! But I have to go visit my ex < 1287335447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you realise how crazy my ideas are? i'm not *stupid* :-D < 1287335468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it more than the original dvd!? < 1287335471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lolcat93: But you aren't registered You need to be registered to break the policy, ergo, you're not breaking it ;; <-- this guy must be a nomic player < 1287335476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's less. < 1287335488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But DVDs take a lot of space. < 1287335531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm I think that you discovered the DRM of the future. Make the things so high-def that pirating them becomes impractical < 1287335533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1287335544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it fails because you could just make it somewhat less high-def < 1287335560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *wow,* it's actually policy that you have to be 13 or over to register with nickserv < 1287335565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's alright to use the network at any age < 1287335568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck? < 1287335571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh < 1287335574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when is an email address personal information? < 1287335580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this stops people going into channels that require registration < 1287335655 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, stupid "think of the children!" laws... < 1287335664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D "Shame they don’t allow auto-identification using client-side SSL certificates, like OFTC does." < 1287335668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OFTC += awesome < 1287335699 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would be too complicated? < 1287335712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too AWESOME < 1287335713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH THIS DVD IS SO RETARDEDLY ENCODED < 1287335719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is basically OFTC's retarded cousin < 1287335722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oftc fails in some other aspects < 1287335724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who lives in the basement < 1287335737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as #esoteric not being there < 1287335748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's just because of hysterical raisins though :) < 1287335750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how is it encoded then < 1287335758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OFTC only being a year old at the time, for instance) < 1287335764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: besides < 1287335772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the true, original esoteric channel is #esoterica on EFNet < 1287335782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament was the one who told andreou to move it to #esoteric on freenode < 1287335783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounds like the other type of esotericness < 1287335785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're all using an imitation! < 1287335786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1287335789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric was taken or something iirc :) < 1287335795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287335798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we in it then < 1287335799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the 2002 Q4 mailing list archives < 1287335801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I said efnet. < 1287335803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRY TO READ < 1287335804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287335805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before speaking < 1287335813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a TV series collection. It has all the episodes in a single title, with 31 chapters. < 1287335819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there anything left in the old channel < 1287335825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also: what about logs for it back then < 1287335831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably not. also, none. < 1287335833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it existed for like < 1287335834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a day < 1287335838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287335839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably lament came in... once < 1287335843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise just andreou < 1287335883 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-130.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287335890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wanna try and FIGURE OUT HOW MY ROUTER ENCODES ITS KEY TO FREEDOM?!?!8375389E5W8347F < 1287335895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or YOU?! < 1287335906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is "8375389E5W8347F" the key? < 1287335909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO KNOWS < 1287335913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also key to freedom in what sense? < 1287335923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the configuration backup file < 1287335929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. almost certainly a tar with terrible XOR-encryption < 1287335929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about it < 1287335931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the livebox < 1287335932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1287335933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1287335934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has initscripts < 1287335934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1287335938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use it to get ssh < 1287335952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by unpacking, adding stuff, repacking, and using it as the configuration to restore < 1287335966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from my router backing up the config gives you an ini file. Trying to load it back will almost certainly fuck up the router and require a hard reset and then doing all the settings manually < 1287335970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a very very bad backup < 1287336005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also hm, it has an sshd? < 1287336038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1287336043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's why i'll put one in the initscript < 1287336057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i.e. in the initscript, i'll have it download dropbear and start it < 1287336060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: failing that -- < 1287336063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'll put dropbear in /etc < 1287336066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of the tar < 1287336068 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. chances of that working? < 1287336073 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287336074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high < 1287336077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for the livebox folks < 1287336079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low < 1287336086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, someone compiled dropbear for that arch? < 1287336095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uhh, it'll just be mips or something. < 1287336098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably linux. < 1287336100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, linux? < 1287336102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287336105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely < 1287336106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287336108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is probably not linux < 1287336113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nmap doesn't identify the OS < 1287336116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but routers do freaky shit anyway < 1287336133 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287336149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect mine is vxworks, not sure though < 1287336165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> rs = [''.join(chr(ord(c)^r) for c in list(x)) for r in range(0,256)] < 1287336167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x is the backup) < 1287336168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho hum. < 1287336174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may take a little while < 1287336179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 110 KiB :) < 1287336184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you doing < 1287336186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or KB, dunno what Gnome reports it as < 1287336189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: trying all possible XORs < 1287336199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and looking for what? < 1287336201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then e.g. i'll look at all the ones that contain the string "sh" < 1287336203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1287336206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /sh < 1287336209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /bin/sh < 1287336210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or #! < 1287336211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be compressed < 1287336211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1287336217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. unlikely. < 1287336221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gzip? < 1287336222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the livebox was just a plain tar < 1287336226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: takes up space on the router < 1287336228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the point? < 1287336235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's being transferred over a slow network < 1287336240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the xor routine takes up space too < 1287336243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the point < 1287336252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to stop people doing what i'm doing. < 1287336260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, xoring every byte in a string is like < 1287336263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it could use a multi-byte key < 1287336264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 bytes of machine code :P < 1287336268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unlikely. < 1287336275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, shut up, this is just my first avenue of investigation < 1287336282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, google not helpful on it? < 1287336298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> rs_ = filter(lambda y: 'sh' in y, rs) < 1287336298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> len(rs_) < 1287336298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :203 < 1287336298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287336300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope, tried that < 1287336318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> rs_ = filter(lambda y: '/sh' in y, rs) < 1287336319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> len(rs_) < 1287336319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1287336339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> rs_[0][0:25] < 1287336340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'\xaa)\x1f*K\x19\x85u49\xee\x81\xbb\xef\\cV\x7f \xff0\x99\x82\\~' < 1287336341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, uh < 1287336345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know mine is near impossible to replace firmware on. Google has a lot on it. But it boils down to "while the firmware file is obfuscated with xor and such, there is one thing we can't get past, an 1024-bit RSA signature" < 1287336345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look very useful < 1287336346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1287336348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\xaa) < 1287336350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ) rings a bell < 1287336351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1287336355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D < 1287336357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is hackable with jtag though < 1287336363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that requires soldering < 1287336367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lolinksys < 1287336372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not linksys < 1287336372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or d-link) < 1287336375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, speedtouch < 1287336378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or netgear < 1287336380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i meant < 1287336383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution is linksys :P < 1287336387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1287336391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it is an ADSL modem < 1287336395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not just a router < 1287336400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: linksys sell one of those too :P < 1287336407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could disable all the settings and plug it into a good router < 1287336415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not sure how well my ISP would like not using one of theirs < 1287336417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1287336425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your isp probably has bigger issues :P < 1287336447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but mine actually mostly do sane things, and it is not locked to that ISP. I could change to use a different ISP with it < 1287336488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headline i want to see: < 1287336501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"XS4ALL teams up with Pirate Party International to launch ISPs in various countries" < 1287336503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have an ISP who *are actually working on implementing IPv6 for last-mile* and have *fully ipv6 supporting backbone since mid-2006* < 1287336517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as good as bogons or xs4all, but better than average < 1287336528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right now i'm with Orange < 1287336530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are one of the big ones here < 1287336533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're basically terrible. < 1287336534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287336535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in every way. < 1287336550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I get 800 KiB/s predictably < 1287336555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ha ha ha ha ha < 1287336557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is one of the old ones. As in, the original one after it went "not just academical". < 1287336567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah < 1287336578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, original but it changed name < 1287336584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it uses the old name in some places < 1287336593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it changed name in like 1995 < 1287336594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287336599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 800 KiB/s? Yeah, once all our cities were wiped out by nuclear bombs and we had to cope with 800 KiB/s for an hour. < 1287336610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mail server was on old domain until last year! < 1287336618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISP mail! Yay! Who would ever use it? < 1287336631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, that was common back then < 1287336645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah :P < 1287336650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and well, my dad had the same email since 1994 :P < 1287336657 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1287336692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there wasn't much choice to ISP email < 1287336701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until, like, the past 5-7 years < 1287336759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sads me that gmail isn't quite all it could be < 1287336764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to run my own qmail < 1287336786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway < 1287336790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\xaa)\x1f* < 1287336792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you recognise this header? < 1287336801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1287336803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have file(1) < 1287336803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh! < 1287336805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, not really < 1287336817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah I was wondering why you didn't just use that < 1287336826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287336832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, did the xor take that long? < 1287336846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well about 10 seconds. to do all 256 possible xors of a 110 KiB file. < 1287336848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind this is python. < 1287336850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slow. < 1287336850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xor is like, one of the fastest operations possible on a modern CPU < 1287336854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, python < 1287336861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it also converted from a one-byte string to a character < 1287336864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back < 1287336870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth < 1287336877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string[x] is-a string < 1287336879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why didn't you just use haskell? < 1287336880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of length 1 < 1287336885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't recall :D < 1287336900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/Downloads$ file ~/sdff < 1287336900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/sdff: data < 1287336900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/Downloads$ file SE572_backup.bin < 1287336900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SE572_backup.bin: data < 1287336901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fuck. < 1287336913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, generate all the variants as files < 1287336913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the firmware upgrade may be a better route, but i see no way to test it < 1287336917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than dissecting a previous upgrade < 1287336922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, i will < 1287336951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the brand/model? < 1287336962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :siemens gigaset se572 < 1287336966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be Orange-specific. < 1287336973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe another model rebranded for orange < 1287337006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and I know someone who uses a cisco router at home. Because he had a spare one. It has the same CPU model as my desktop. (Sempron 3300+, 64-bit). And a CD-reader. < 1287337012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had such a router < 1287337018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be power hungry I bet though < 1287337018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/xyz219: Sendmail frozen configuration - version \332\254\274\016\362v\236\007O*\024]\241\351\006 < 1287337030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, misdetection I suspect < 1287337037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1287337041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/pastes/1227893/text?key=smb0pibj6th7rrkanurvg < 1287337047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how it detects things as com < 1287337050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, everything is a valid com :P < 1287337052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, grep -v data is bad < 1287337058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, data could exist inside other ones < 1287337058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, indeed < 1287337070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/xyz254: DBase 3 data file < 1287337071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt < 1287337081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/xyz126: DBase 3 data file with memo(s) (1554788450 records) < 1287337082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaano < 1287337088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at 1554788450 records though < 1287337091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's it < 1287337094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot of weird stuff is detected as "DBase 3 data file" in my experience < 1287337115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is "SysEx File"? < 1287337126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MIDI stuff, I think < 1287337144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah < 1287337164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm "MIPSEL-BE Ucode"? < 1287337182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't look at me < 1287337182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could try strings on all those files < 1287337190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and look for plausible things < 1287337203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be a custom format < 1287337214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look for known strings, like the configured SSID or whatever < 1287337228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might have given up :D < 1287337232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea for that ssid though < 1287337242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1287337249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try finding SSID in the original file too < 1287337254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be un-encrypted < 1287337264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1287337265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no occurrences < 1287337267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give up :p < 1287337269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287337287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'll give you access if you want to try and mess it up for me >:p < 1287337298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to the config or the router? < 1287337315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :router, that'd let you download the config too... although actually no, i don't trust you < 1287337325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I might take a quick look at the config, I doubt I'm in position to hijack your wlan from here < 1287337375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i am not entirely sure it does not store my password unencrypted. < 1287337380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a very very very very very very very good directed antenna aimed at Sweden (and assuming that the signals bounce against the ionosphere, which I doubt) < 1287337384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could change it and diff the two files < 1287337385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, grep for it ;P < 1287337386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be interesting < 1287337395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would certainly be interesting < 1287337405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also: back it up again without changing < 1287337408 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there might be timestamps < 1287337416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to look for that as well < 1287337458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary files SE572_backup.bin and new differ < 1287337459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdgdfg < 1287337465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how much? < 1287337465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bdiff designed for human use? < 1287337468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i can diff the hexdump < 1287337482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, diff <(od < foo) <(od < bar) < 1287337485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1287337503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are a ... lot of changes. < 1287337510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only after a certain point? < 1287337514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, it has rebooted since then, and the password has changed, but, a lot of changes. < 1287337518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/Router$ diff <(hexdump -C SE572_backup.bin) <(hexdump -C new) | wc -l < 1287337518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14060 < 1287337521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of changes. < 1287337533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287337542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the passwords were the same length < 1287337543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made sure of that < 1287337551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are they all after some specific point? < 1287337567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and after that point, nearly everything has changed? < 1287337568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000000b0 onwards < 1287337573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1287337573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, ah < 1287337574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right < 1287337578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh! < 1287337581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, block chiper < 1287337583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it's using actual encryption < 1287337587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with IV chaining probably < 1287337598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is where i give up, yes? < 1287337627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is where you fetch the screwdriver and the soldering iron and the oscope! < 1287337640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is where I switch ISPs! < 1287337644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And buy a new router! < 1287337650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember to use digital probes, not analogue ones < 1287337664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, remember to use digital probes, not analogue ones < 1287337669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context is futile. uh, irrelevant. < 1287337672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1287337686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm going to fetch the hammer < 1287337689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite small, made of plastic < 1287337690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can take it < 1287337702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look for jtag connectors on it < 1287337708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i...i doubt. < 1287337716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot of things have jtag in fact < 1287337728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably just holes for the connectors though < 1287337737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to put an actual contact there < 1287337742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves money < 1287337747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1287337757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, jtag. You know what it is right? < 1287337768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, probably just holes for the connectors though < 1287337769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no need to put an actual contact there < 1287337769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : saves money < 1287337770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the wat bit < 1287337792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, a lot of consumer crap crap stuff has jtag. Both for debugging faulty units and for debugging during development of the model. < 1287337816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but they don't put the actual physical connectors in retail units < 1287337830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is just the holes in the PCB left where it would have gone < 1287337835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287337850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe i'll just get a device capable of dispensing specific electrical shocks < 1287337850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ST585 (which I have) is such a case < 1287337853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and operate directly on the pcb < 1287337862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1287337880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay... so if I cause this bit to flip...right...now! it'll corrupt the disk in the right way that if I..." < 1287337894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it has a "disk" < 1287337903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I CAN MODIFY ROM DAMMIT < 1287337909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, raw access to a flash controller is more likely < 1287337910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll have some sort of flash storage < 1287337911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287337936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it will be low level access to it. Not any sort of SATA or IDE interface to it < 1287337951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if anyone's written an fltk binding for scheme < 1287337991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, if there aren't anything jtagish on there, you will have to resort to using a scope < 1287337999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *might* be an obsessive freak about video quality when you go and grab DVD ISOs for the sole purpose of getting better encodes. < 1287338000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/isn't/ < 1287338005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh sed fail < 1287338011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BLU-RAAAAAAAY < 1287338019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not ON Blu-ray! < 1287338033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder when we will get UV-ray < 1287338033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i would like to report myself for multiple kline evasions :) < 1287338046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor has it ever been aired in higher than 480p! < 1287338062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: UNSATISFACTORY < 1287338065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATCH A DIFFERENT FILM INSTEAD < 1287338074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why is bluetooth called "bluetooth" < 1287338092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the guy. < 1287338102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TV series. < 1287338103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word Bluetooth is an anglicised version of Danish/Swedish Blåtand, the epithet of the tenth-century king Harald I of Denmark and parts of Norway who united dissonant Danish tribes into a single kingdom. The implication is that Bluetooth does the same with communications protocols, uniting them into one universal standard.[2][3][4] < 1287338112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh harald blåtand, right < 1287338114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which series? Also: WATCH A DIFFERENT SERIES < 1287338116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE WITH HIGHER QUALITY < 1287338119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Invader Zim. < 1287338124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIGHER < 1287338125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUALITY < 1287338125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REQUIRED < 1287338135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nobody's gone out and refilmed the animation cells, sadly. < 1287338138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch anything that hasn't been aired or released in 1080p. < 1287338153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably 4096p. < 1287338163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, Doctor Who came into existence this year? < 1287338165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1287338167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2160p < 1287338172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1287338184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quite interesting in medias res beginning. < 1287338189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?! how can you accept 2160p!? < 1287338189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. < 1287338196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, this Doctor -- who is he? Where is he from? What is he doing? < 1287338201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's these other people? < 1287338202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what? < 1287338205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's absurdly bad quality! < 1287338206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be a psychological thriller. < 1287338210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 4000p at least < 1287338213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And how's he the eleventh? < 1287338217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my minimum! < 1287338222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think we are up for a FUCKTON of flashbacks. < 1287338236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I only watch continuous video frames. < 1287338253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is, the frame is a function from [0,1] to [0,1]^3 (RGB). < 1287338255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They might air it in 576i for a retro feel, though. < 1287338259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And wouldn't that be awful? < 1287338265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not if it's INTENTIONAL < 1287338270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like RETRO < 1287338273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287338278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Although RGB is a bit insufficient. < 1287338280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1287338281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? So you are keeping your eyes closed all the time then? (quantum... discrete!) < 1287338284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT I'LL JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT < 1287338288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, oh? So you are keeping your eyes closed all the time then? (quantum... discrete!) < 1287338289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut :p < 1287338293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, not in time < 1287338299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[0,1]^2 < 1287338300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the input < 1287338301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1287338303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. < 1287338308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d video! :P < 1287338316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only watch continuous *in time* < 1287338325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well duh, me too. < 1287338359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In conclusion, I watch ([0,1]^3)^(R * [0,1]^2). < 1287338380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, equivalently, < 1287338387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but since the real world isn't continuous in time... Lets just say it explains why I don't have a lot of scrollback, it would need a huge braille terminal! < 1287338391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(([0,1]^3)^([0,1]^2))^R < 1287338439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only watch those that have only imaginary colours < 1287338447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah yes, like the Discworld movies. < 1287338454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My display reproduces octarine perfectly. < 1287338456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, touche < 1287338488 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and lets not just get started on my audio requirements! < 1287338518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, grammar fail < 1287338536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I hope you don't use a silly notion of bits and kHz. < 1287338544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem like the kind of man who would use [0,1]^R. < 1287338559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A continuous signal of infinite bits! < 1287338688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. < 1287338733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perfect binaural of course < 1287338766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i have mono ears < 1287338883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves the hot water in the sink running for 7min < 1287338891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why? < 1287338902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be sure that it will stay hot < 1287338911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The house is breaking down < 1287338925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it stays hot, maybe I can take a shower in my house! < 1287338932 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1287338939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not from the sink water) < 1287339015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "It's useful, but not required, to have an alternate nick grouped to your account. For example, if your primary nick is foo: < 1287339016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :foo_ < 1287339020 0 :foo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1287339022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops :D < 1287339027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine the next line < 1287339027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1287339089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually said "whoops :D"? < 1287339275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287339445 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-130.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287339604 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god < 1287339608 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just recompiled the freedos kernel < 1287339618 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only so i can get Windows for Workgroups 3.11 run from an USB thumbdrive < 1287339626 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 386 Win3x support requires a special kernel compile < 1287339628 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if it works... < 1287339655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit bizarre. :) < 1287339820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "We will probably, but not definitely, end up working in Java." -- Eliezer Yudkowsky, ages ago, on the Seed AI project, making present Eliezer Yudkowsky very embarrassed indeed < 1287339846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How incredibly embarassing. < 1287339865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*embarrassing :| < 1287339870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the first time I've ever seen you typo. < 1287339874 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287339902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm just lovin' the thought that a standard-ish computer could be expected to run *Java* code fast enough to... to anything. < 1287339921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I typo somewhat often, IMO. < 1287339933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nver tpyo. < 1287339966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess you get the impression that I never typo simply because I actually try to spell things right (like most programmers). :P < 1287339986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just never see you use anything other than perfect English. Thinkos, yes, but not typos. < 1287340001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try and spell correctly but grammar I am much less concerned about :p < 1287340009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287340011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orthography, really < 1287340012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. < 1287340022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar i get right, i just tend to omit... punctuation < 1287340025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and capitalisation < 1287340027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mistype things fairly often. < 1287340040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And spelling, eh, I sometimes forget. Maybe once or twice a day. < 1287340170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very very annoying to try and get things set up to be easily encodable when you're having to dump the VOB stream for episodes FROM THE FREAKING CHAPTERS of a single title. < 1287340196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah well. < 1287340201 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287340204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dd bs=[whatever] if=/dev/cdrom of=movie.iso < 1287340208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of=series.iso, whatever < 1287340209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1287340221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See, I've got the ISOs already. < 1287340227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mplayer foo.iso < 1287340230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc this works. < 1287340231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want them in h264'd mkvs. < 1287340238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1287340247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer dvd://chapter/path-to-iso.iso < 1287340268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1287340273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just keep it like that then :D < 1287340286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works just fine, but it's kinda annoying. Especially when you're going to need to do some processing to make the video not suck. < 1287340322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(invert the 2:3 pulldown, deinterlace the random chunks of not 2:3 pulldown... Ugh.) < 1287340341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and probably completely omit the Spanish audio track. < 1287340352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not just pirate it from the start? < 1287340356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you had any esolang ideas recently? < 1287340358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I pirated the ISOs. < 1287340365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh < 1287340376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably < 1287340379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all the other encodes had INSUFFICIENT AUDIO QUALITY < 1287340382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1287340384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *probably*? < 1287340384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video. < 1287340390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose track after a while < 1287340413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been spending more time recently trying (and failing) to exploit a buffer overflow in NetHack < 1287340415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most encodes are going to have sane audio quality; you're generally going to just copy the AC3 stream. < 1287340430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal saw you on NAO, I think < 1287340431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a stupid full stop keeps getting in the way < 1287340433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing yourself repeatedly? < 1287340438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1287340439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, wouldn't have been me < 1287340440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a RNG hack < 1287340449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he said you wrote the bot though; probably he just meant TAEB < 1287340450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(192kbps for stereo AC3? What's the *point* in transcoding it?) < 1287340462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I haven't run TAEB523 recently either < 1287340473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal probably grossly overestimates how much of TAEB you wrote < 1287340482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was killing itself repeatedly on dlvl 1 by kicking a wand of wishing, apparently < 1287340496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wowdeath? < 1287340497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know he wrote one of those AIs only < 1287340509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a) only three kills, and b) years ago < 1287340515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it was days ago < 1287340518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Vorpal < 1287340523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : killing yourself repeatedly? <-- deathrobin? < 1287340525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1287340530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: has someone been doing wowdeath again? < 1287340531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you said a few days ago < 1287340535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you saw something on NAO < 1287340536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, I've also got this thing about retaining things like audio commentary; most people don't. < 1287340537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not that I know of < 1287340539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicking a wand of wishing repeatedly < 1287340542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes you did, you said it < 1287340545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't connected to nao for weeks < 1287340546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh < 1287340554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's just a timescale confusion, somehow < 1287340555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :months probably < 1287340559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287340559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pikhq < 1287340560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are mixing me up with someone else < 1287340561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:03 Someone reverse engineered Nethack's PRNG... And then logged onto a public server, killed himself on the first level by kicking a wand of wishing, three times a day. < 1287340566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was surprised, because the bug wowdeath exploited was fixed) < 1287340569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:25 pikhq: Uhhhhh < 1287340569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:33 http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=WowDeath Yes. < 1287340569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:46 Gregor: He could have done a bunch of ascensions, but that's funnier. < 1287340569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:38:47 Oh, whaddya know. ais523 developed the bot that does that. < 1287340569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:38:54 Awesome. < 1287340575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and later, the bug Adeon exploited was fixed too) < 1287340580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes, years ago < 1287340585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where he got your name from though < 1287340615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the WowDeath account, I killed myself by kicking wands of wishing on the first level — three times in one day." --sartak, TAEB blog < 1287340616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ < 1287340627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did you think ais523 wrote all the TAEB code or something? :p < 1287340628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was linked to from the TAEB blog, which listed ais523 as one of the developers. < 1287340631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wrote one of the AIs for TAEB; Sartak, who owned WoWdeath, was the original author for TAEB < 1287340636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1287340640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right < 1287340646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 had no part in it actually :P < 1287340650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I just misphrased it. I should have said something like "ais523 was *a* developer for the bot that does that." < 1287340656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TAEB didn't do it, though. < 1287340660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I /am/ one of the developers for TAEB, but TAEB wasn't involved in the RNG exploit < 1287340664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was another bot by someone else who happens to develop TAEB. < 1287340668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misinterpreted. < 1287340668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, was the original developer of. But.) < 1287340674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played deathrobin once for the fun of it. I got a new one iirc. IIRC I was first with something along the lines of "dying from jumping out of beartrap while punished and hallucinating" < 1287340678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND misphrased. < 1287340678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sartak's been missing for a while < 1287340683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most saner ones were already done < 1287340688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: literally missing? < 1287340693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just not arond much? < 1287340694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*around < 1287340699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hasn't turned up in #nethack or #interhack < 1287340702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1287340708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define "while < 1287340710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"while" < 1287340719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure offhand; probably around a year < 1287340731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a *year*? < 1287340737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's very worrying < 1287340747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we think he just moved on to other projects < 1287340753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, he works for best practical < 1287340762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd probably hear if he died or something < 1287340771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his twitter account's still being used, that's a quick way to check < 1287340779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, he's committed to github recently < 1287340782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the bestpractical account < 1287340804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight hours ago < 1287340814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I doubt he's vanished off the face of the Earth < 1287340818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just from the NetHack community < 1287340827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it happens < 1287340830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, got the vob streams dumped. < 1287340839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why :( ) < 1287340894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to experiment with how best to get the video to not suck < 1287340905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's kind-of annoying, because he owns the machine on which my TAEB repo is hosted < 1287340916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although the machine still works, my SSH key doesn't, and the account doesn't have a password < 1287340919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, i'm about to give you a flashback < 1287340922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rutian < 1287340934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a while ago < 1287340949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did your vision go greyscale? did events repeat?! did they:?!?!?! < 1287340950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no : < 1287340990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my vision goes greyscale whenever there's insufficient light for my cones to function correctly < 1287341015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which doesn't happen all that often, given the amount of light in the modern-day world even at night) < 1287341015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, you approached zzo38 a bit there < 1287341018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be careful < 1287341036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zzo38, btw, is now planning to make his own implementation of *TeX* < 1287341041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to include in his linux distribution < 1287341043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, most people can be like that; it's just zzo38 who does it as a way of life < 1287341066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you just have to wait for him to reimplement the rest of the userland and the kernel too < 1287341068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta meet him IRL before i die. < 1287341070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we'll have a new free OS < 1287341075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be an... experience < 1287341100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sartak"? < 1287341126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: invented TAEB, did wowdeath < 1287341128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappeared < 1287341133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ complete bio < 1287341133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1287341143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chronology of the first two may be backwards < 1287341144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1287341200 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-84.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287341215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure about the chronology of the third? < 1287341229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes. < 1287341234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ais523 has said, he's not in nethack channels any more. < 1287341259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, then I guess there is a chance time travel was not involved < 1287341263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this conversation has degenerated into pointlessness pretty rapidly < 1287341269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fun, isn't it? < 1287341287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not particularly < 1287341317 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1287341321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you slept too well then (not tired enough to think rather silly and not really funny things are funny) < 1287341332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm rarely /that/ tired < 1287341378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although your observation then explains a lot < 1287341381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh. Happens to be on regular basis. I guess the individual tiredness threshold differs < 1287341383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if s/tired/drunk/ < 1287341390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm a teetotaller < 1287341405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he just gets drunk on boring < 1287341410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(um, that's a semantic s///, not a textual substitution one) < 1287341412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his boring accumulates over the course of a day < 1287341416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he gets drunk on it < 1287341416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err < 1287341419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading tot he observed effects < 1287341421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm a teetotaller too, but am still capable of getting effectively drunk < 1287341421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to the < 1287341434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via lack of sleep < 1287341437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you promised to never be mean to me, remember? < 1287341439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or occasionally just on vapour < 1287341450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only when GreaseMonkey was around < 1287341477 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, retroactively adding clauses is cheating < 1287341485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had my fingers crossed < 1287341514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does that myth come from, fiction? < 1287341525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was just thinking of asking the same thing < 1287341527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, crossing fingers? < 1287341533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes from schoolkids < 1287341538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for the purpose of making a signature invalid? < 1287341539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, makes sense < 1287341549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does it make sense? < 1287341551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crossing fingers for luck, don't know < 1287341562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it makes about as much sense as cooties < 1287341580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, if there was proof that a) you did cross your fingers while signing, and b) the other person should have interpreted it as a sign that you weren't really agreeing to the contract or whatever < 1287341582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles that word < 1287341586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the contract probably isn't correctly agreed < 1287341593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can hide them < 1287341597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's still valid < 1287341607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that makes no sense < 1287341613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the other party can look first, so you have to e.g. cross your toes) < 1287341622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common playground law :) < 1287341642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is crossing toes valid? < 1287341643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playground law is famous for a) making no sense at all, and b) being inconsistent from person to person < 1287341646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to really bizarre arguments < 1287341657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. probably. but people will hate you < 1287341664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287341686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly, we need playground judges < 1287341690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to establish precedent < 1287341701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, do you know how insane the linux ipsec tunnel implementation is? < 1287341706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on < 1287341707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1287341721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing from the fact you asked the question that it's insane, though < 1287341729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would you expect it to use some of pseudo-interface, such as a tun interface? < 1287341746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wouldn't really expect anything, due to caring insufficiently about the details < 1287341798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that the pullup filter does wonderful, wonderful things to this video. < 1287341820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, it gets out sane, 24fps video. < 1287341848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it doesn't use one. Instead it uses some kind of ipsec policy and weird route. Weird route like: " via metric 0 proto static" (otherwise the packet wouldn't get far enough to be redirected to the tunnel). < 1287341876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sometimes the only difference between Vorpal and zzo38 is that Vorpal gives you the context < 1287341876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287341880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure which way I like better < 1287341888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and doing wireshark at either tunnel end point makes the packages show up twice, once as encrypted and once as decrypted (I verified with a third computer that was not actually sent over the wire) < 1287341906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, yes < 1287341909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/packages/packets/ < 1287341922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ais523, well, it doesn't use one. Instead it uses some kind of ipsec policy and weird route. Weird route like: " via metric 0 proto static" (otherwise the packet wouldn't get far enough to be redirected to the tunnel). < 1287341922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that bad or good? < 1287341925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is pretty close to a zzo line... < 1287341947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't use *quite* as awkward grammar. < 1287341951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but... < 1287341954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you rephrased it < 1287341957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and he is in here you know < 1287341962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wasn't thinking about the grammar at all < 1287341962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1287341987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "if you rephrased what you just said, you could make it sound like someone else, but you don't need to do that, if you don't want to, that is" < 1287341999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your point? < 1287342013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are completely missing the non-grammatical aspects of zzo's personality... < 1287342016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, one of the joys about IRC and/or Usenet is that you can basically talk about anything < 1287342023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaw, not *quite*. < 1287342027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usenet -- as long as it's spam < 1287342027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the other joys is that you don't necessarily have to listen < 1287342030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I know about them too, but they don't stand out quite as much as the grammatical ones < 1287342035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Yes they do. < 1287342055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that sounded very much like someone else. < 1287342062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, someone from xkcd I think < 1287342072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mentally filtering out Usenet spam isn't too hard, around as hard as mentally filtering out email spam < 1287342080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have a spam filter? < 1287342085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly harder than mentally filtering out adverts < 1287342102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for email, there are two competing spam filters checking my email, neither of which is under my control < 1287342114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to come across a good usenet spamfilter. I guess no one really cares about writing one < 1287342134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume the yahoo account is also spam-filtered, although perhaps not (the "spam" folder rarely gets anything, and when it does it's generally a legit email) < 1287342164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently, most Usenet servers other than Google Groups are pretty good at filtering it < 1287342171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone used a BSD in a VM? < 1287342182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be implausible if they hadn't < 1287342185 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the primary joy of irc is that you can talk about nothing < 1287342187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyone *here* < 1287342188 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1287342191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively recently < 1287342198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, the one I use drastically lowered spam amount about half a year ago < 1287342199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: alas < 1287342207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but there are no good client-integrated ones < 1287342210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming that second nickping was a joke, rather than a mistake?) < 1287342212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are in many email clients < 1287342215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as thunderbird < 1287342220 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1287342227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1287342231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : has anyone used a BSD in a VM? <-- yes < 1287342242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which (BSD and VM)? < 1287342265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used freebsd (64-bit) in virtualbox (with Intel's VT stuff) about 4 months ago9 < 1287342267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ago* < 1287342275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't have the install around any longer it seems < 1287342279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it just worked < 1287342291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to do 32-bit netbsd and i don't have vt. < 1287342292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy < 1287342303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither virtualbox nor qemu can boot it OOTB < 1287342305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1287342305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you need vt for the 64-bit stuff in virtualbox < 1287342307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu can install netbsd < 1287342312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i get network issues < 1287342333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never got network to work under qemu for any OS. Never tried very hard though < 1287342346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually just works. < 1287342354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, i got it working in NT 4 for MIPS. < 1287342364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't with plan9, which was the last thing I used under qemu < 1287342380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably have if you tweaked the plan9 config < 1287342380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it works pretty trivially (I can't remember whether it needs a command-line option or not), but you don't get an externally visible IP < 1287342383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything :p < 1287342384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does some sort of NATing < 1287342396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no option needed; it has a default < 1287342411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but well then venti decided to lock up and I had other stuff to do :P < 1287342415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I never got that far < 1287342415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1287342422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mknod segfaults when booting netbsd livecd in virtualbox < 1287342426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, now an abort trap < 1287342427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wut???) < 1287342440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, virtualbox NATs too by default < 1287342445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sort of fucked up. < 1287342450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your system is jinxed < 1287342453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287342455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just virtualbox < 1287342471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used netbsd (again 64-bit) about a year ago under virtualbox (again intel vt stuff) < 1287342491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt changes a lot. < 1287342496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1287342499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, vt is slower than virtualbox software emulation iirc :) < 1287342502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it was a few years ago < 1287342505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on the OS < 1287342522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in my experience it varies widely from case to case which is fastest < 1287342544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it is required for 64-bit guests, so... < 1287342572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I hate to say it, but the only OS I found "snappy" under virtualbox was 64-bit xp pro. < 1287342593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is fast enough to feel like "almost native" < 1287342615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bsds have always sucked at VMs : < 1287342616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:/ < 1287342633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am almost certain it will not like all my hardware, so i'm not about to install it without playing first < 1287342647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh yes, I remember freebsd was a pain to get working back in vmware server (this was before virtualbox existed, or before it was widely known at least) < 1287342674 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287342680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it *seems* that what's happening is that this video is occasionally using the wrong field order. < 1287342693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh, what < 1287342713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it interlaced or something? < 1287342728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's telecined poorly. < 1287342803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *trying* to get mplayer's filters to do the "right thing". < 1287342905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, btw, you said it would be nice to be able to store dvds remuxed. And said about 8 gb for each. I just thought about that number.... That means a 128 on a 1 TiB disk.... You would need a large RAID array to be able to store any decent number of dvds that way < 1287342905 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287342949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have more than 128 dvds? < 1287342973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but I don't think pikhq is average. After all he said he had all SNES roms :P < 1287343004 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get at least 2TB disks nowadays, that'd be 256 DVD:s per disk < 1287343006 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-171.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287343015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to build a huuuuge RAID at one point < 1287343029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 5-10 TiB, preferably enough to have that mirrored too < 1287343030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe dream, but :P < 1287343034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk is only getting cheaper! < 1287343042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is < 1287343047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of the unholy racket those disks will make! < 1287343052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I think I finally reached a system that will last for more than one year before it starts to get cramped < 1287343054 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, a 5 disk raid array, that's huuuuge < 1287343064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, no, it'd be 10 < 1287343069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, I have more than 600 GB unallocated! < 1287343070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 1 TiB disks and mirroring < 1287343074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and that *is* huge for home usage < 1287343086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess i could network it somewhere so i don't have to see or hear it, but then access time would suffer < 1287343110 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287343129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I talked to someone yesterday who recently installed a 60 TB RAID thingy. Hardware RAID, iSCSI, infiband. You name it. < 1287343133 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-84.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287343142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sadly not for home usage < 1287343151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if it was for home usage I'd... just want to punch him < 1287343159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no that would be bad < 1287343163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 60 TiB for home usage is wasteful to the max :) < 1287343169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, you would be a prime suspect when it goes missing! < 1287343171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a really crazy way < 1287343181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HEY I WOULD DIVIDE IT INTO SIX AND DISTRIBUTE IT AMONG THE PEOPLE < 1287343184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMUNISM! < 1287343228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt it, would need reconfiguring. And iirc it used 2 redundant RAID controllers, not 6 < 1287343237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for the top level that is < 1287343247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was of course multi-layered < 1287343255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't run plain RAID6 on that :P < 1287343282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actually ridiculous how cheap disk is getting < 1287343351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah well, you wouldn't use desktop disks in such an array < 1287343356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get 5 TB at 5400 rpm for $300 < 1287343370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because 60 TiB for home usage is wasteful to the max :) < 1287343373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TB probably :P < 1287343376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you would use server disks, which are smaller, generally higher RPM, lasts longer, and more expensive < 1287343380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287343384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for a home system though :) < 1287343394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much disk does RAID 5 get you again? < 1287343398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the raw space < 1287343417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287343425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest_size * (drives - 1) < 1287343432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you disagreed with that last time, didn't you? < 1287343437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah you don't use different sized drivers in general < 1287343463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, then, you can get 4 TB of RAID 5'd 5400 rpm storage for $300 < 1287343466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going by the wikipedia article < 1287343472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad at all < 1287343495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, if you do software raid (you almost certainly will), and don't care about RAID1 for swap. Don't do RAID0 for those partitions. That is just wasteful and also messes with suspend to disk. < 1287343505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what you do is assign both same priority in fstab < 1287343511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the kernel will interleave writes < 1287343513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this wouldn't be an OS drive < 1287343517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be an additional mounted drive < 1287343518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1287343522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably* over the network < 1287343533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you want a massive drive just for spare storage purposes? < 1287343534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the SAN? < 1287343537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to do a local network storage device without using nfs or anything of the sort? < 1287343547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iSCSI < 1287343548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want the equivalent of a really long cable :) < 1287343551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it'd be for bulk storage < 1287343552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but uh... < 1287343568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's pretty much what I meant < 1287343568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g. media (movies, tv series, etc.), large data sets < 1287343574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could make sense for some people < 1287343580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, i wouldn't really go for 5 TiB unless i needed it < 1287343587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TV < 1287343589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TB < 1287343590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I grew up on floppy disks, and am horrified at the large file sizes of today < 1287343593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1 TB i can see myself usnig up < 1287343594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*using < 1287343595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you realise that you want two NICs then? < 1287343598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1287343601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lawl < 1287343602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: RAID 5 < 1287343606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you disagreed with wikipedia last time < 1287343606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want a dedicated SAN < 1287343617 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use CIFS for my networked storage < 1287343618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when wikipedia said that it would give smallest_drive * (num_of_drives - 1) < 1287343618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1287343622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i dislike large filesizes for no reason < 1287343625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It should be smallest_size * (drives - 1) for RAID 5, yeah... < 1287343630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't want this over your normal ethernet. because as far as I remember, it is not friendly to other traffic < 1287343632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287343632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but e.g. HD video is large because it's high quality < 1287343634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK < 1287343636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Okay < 1287343642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even *ok < 1287343644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how badly swap over iSCSI would work < 1287343655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "high quality"? HD is 1024x768, isn't it? < 1287343659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems likely that if kernel is trying to swap because lack of memory that would be a really really bad idea < 1287343661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, no. < 1287343671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 720p, the lowest HD, is 1280x720 < 1287343684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1080p, i.e. something that actually looks high-definition, is 1920x1080 < 1287343712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1080i is a monstrosity. < 1287343712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now consider that you use a high quality video format, like H.264, encoded with a good codec with settings optimised for quality, like x264... < 1287343717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea: iSCSI + distributed network filesystem (several computers can access the same *physical* storage unit at once, writing to the same file system. And no, not like nfs. < 1287343726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I think that all existing video codecs suck < 1287343726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you get a movie that takes up quite some gigabytes < 1287343734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at things they aren't designed for < 1287343737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need one of those cluster FSes < 1287343741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: x264 is designed very well < 1287343747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. ocfs2 or whatever the other one was called < 1287343747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for live action and animation video < 1287343752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idling #tasvideos, you get lots of discussions about how to get computer games looking as realistic as possible < 1287343755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dark Shikari is basically obsessive about it < 1287343757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott, 4000p! < 1287343760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x264 is an awful codec for those < 1287343765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, well, that's not what it's designed for < 1287343773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine MNG would be better, but nobody really supports it < 1287343777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :live action and animated TV/movies it encodes superbly < 1287343784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much the highest you can get < 1287343795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, there's a reason the highest-quality blu-ray releases use H.264 < 1287343797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it tends to disintegrate with fast-moving backgrounds < 1287343801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x264 is by far the best H.264 codec < 1287343811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe pixely ones. < 1287343814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Believe me, other lossy codecs are worse. < 1287343824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: things like tickertape falling from the ceiling < 1287343824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why use a lossy codec? < 1287343826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, I believe you < 1287343830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, what bitrate are you guys trying this at? < 1287343835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because lossless leads to insane filesizes? < 1287343835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have no idea how big lossless video is. < 1287343840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right < 1287343842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, i've heard ais523 talking about these guys < 1287343846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're serious encoder dudes < 1287343849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tweaking settings all day < 1287343856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I do. Several TB for a normal movie. < 1287343857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't doubt that x264 fails at what they're doing < 1287343865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In SD. < 1287343869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they produce videos encoded in such an insane way that only VLC can handle the resulting videos < 1287343872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In HD... probably ... like... 50 TiB. < 1287343872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For pixellated sources, I'd *imagine* that lossless would be at tolerable size. < 1287343876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Doubtful. < 1287343877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Consider this: < 1287343882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not even movie editing is done losslessly*. < 1287343887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use a very high-quality lossy codec. < 1287343895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As soon as they start editing it on a computer. < 1287343903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even *that* requires insane RAID to store. < 1287343910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I read about digital editing systems for those multi-IMAX-on-a-sphere cinemas. < 1287343914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, insane :D < 1287343922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Most Linux media players use the same video handling routines; libavcodec is pretty much THE way to play video. < 1287343925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wait, how are you supposed to see everything? < 1287343925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC even VLC uses it. < 1287343930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone gets murdered behind you? :p < 1287343934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, half-sphere < 1287343938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, typo < 1287343940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287343950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, I know that Totem at least fails on the things with variable video framerates but constant audio framerates < 1287343955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Many of VLC's codecs are provided by the libavcodec library from the FFmpeg project, but it uses mainly its own muxer and demuxers." < 1287343956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is one in Stockholm. Pretty impressive. < 1287343963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the muxers and demuxers would matter in ais523's example there < 1287343964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever been to one? < 1287343970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no -- not even an IMAX < 1287343983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mplayer fails at *encoding* such things, but I'm pretty sure it handles them just fine. < 1287343991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the one in stockholm have like 7 separate IMAX-projectors with special lenses. < 1287343993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it's actually just *barely* possible to get lossless compressed video going on normal hardware... For SD. < 1287344030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and speakers spread out all over behind the half-sphere thingy < 1287344078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm personally unconvinced that DCT is a sensible way to encode video < 1287344101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense for low-frequency images, but there are better ways to encode segments of images that you know are low-frequency < 1287344108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we should use a Slow Fourier Transform < 1287344111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I, for kicks, did that with Elephant's Dream. They distribute PNG-per-frame for it... 21G for 10 minutes of video.) < 1287344129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please tell me you made it into an MNG < 1287344132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. That's the 1080p. < 1287344138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for high-frequency images, the results it produces don't really correspond to the original < 1287344149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait < 1287344154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so a 100 minute movie could be only 210G? < 1287344169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If *compressed losslessly*, yes. < 1287344176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve highly < 1287344180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. < 1287344185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's for 1080p. < 1287344186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang. < 1287344188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but that'll be the result, which will have been edited < 1287344190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually entirely practical. < 1287344190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at lossy quality < 1287344193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, the descriptions of DCT I see - decompose the image into frequency components, delete the ones with low amplitude - in practice effectively becomes "decompose the image into frequency components, ignore the high-frequency ones" < 1287344195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do professional movie productions try to avoid it or something? < 1287344195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1287344213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly painful, sure, but it's entirely practical to do lossless video editing. < 1287344216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, because all JPEG-like codecs are based on it, effectively < 1287344217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1287344220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both images and video < 1287344220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1287344223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the images that the png are < 1287344227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be frames from a lossy video < 1287344230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a high-quality lossy codec < 1287344233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the film was edited in < 1287344234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my bet < 1287344241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant, try to avoid stuff where it gives bad results < 1287344249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly < 1287344252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, no, no. The Elephant's Dream 1080p PNG files are the *output from the 3D renderer*. < 1287344259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh. fair enough then :D < 1287344276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/JPEG_JFIF_and_2000_Comparison.png jpeg 200: worse than jpeg! < 1287344287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the input to the 3D renderer be considerably smaller? < 1287344293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make a better codec in that example < 1287344302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but decompression would take many, many hours < 1287344303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :days, even < 1287344303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the fact that it would take too long to decode < 1287344304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the point of that format < 1287344307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1287344311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jpeg 2000? it's the official successor to jpeg < 1287344319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. They distribute *that* on the DVDs. < 1287344327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with the actual DVD video. < 1287344334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that just a worst-case image? Or is that representative of the general results? < 1287344334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, makes sense < 1287344339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it is a small image < 1287344343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000 < 1287344360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JPEG 2000 has many design commonalities with the ICER image compression format that is used to send images back from the Mars rovers." < 1287344366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can imagine something larger than the actual sources, but similar < 1287344372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1287344390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no one uses jpeg 2000, and it has been around for years < 1287344392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like a 3D input format that's partially rendered < 1287344414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, theory: is it possible to cache things between frames when 3D rendering? < 1287344422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no theoretical reason why it /wouldn't/ be, at least in some cases < 1287344440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICER < 1287344458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, theory: is it possible to cache things between frames when 3D rendering? < 1287344469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNG vs APNG < 1287344470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fight! < 1287344471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you asked that already < 1287344478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(it's this sort of reasoning that lead to me working on that roguelike routing algorithm) < 1287344488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know; if I repeat a line unexpectedly, it's almost always due to a typo < 1287344493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my IRC client makes that typo rather easy < 1287344502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway. Depends on illumination model I would guess. < 1287344507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"APNG hides the subsequent frames in PNG ancillary chunks in such a way that APNG-unaware applications would ignore them, but there are otherwise no changes to the format to allow software to distinguish between animated and non-animated images." < 1287344507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1287344531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla Firefox added support for APNG in version 3 trunk builds on March 23, 2007.[5] However, because libpng is the PNG Group's reference implementation of the official specification, APNG support can never be supported in the main libpng distribution so long as it remains unratified by the Group. Consequently, Iceweasel 3 does not support APNG.[6]" < 1287344543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with raytraceing, moving anything could change how light reflects and that could give effects way later in the path of the photon < 1287344554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceweasel vs GNU IceCat: discuss < 1287344556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2d41d737527e809d7511d0643b49bdfae5e6ad8e YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO. < 1287344567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, effects of a local change _could_ be global < 1287344569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed; but full raytracing is rarely actually used < 1287344583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, you can cache parts of the calculation that aren't illumination < 1287344584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU LINK ME TO AN IMAGE OF A BEAR KICKING A CAT AND A PUPPY < 1287344599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, go to the examples on povray's website ;P < 1287344599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually prefer the name Iceweasel < 1287344600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's about 21 gigs of PNGs. :) < 1287344607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know it's been done < 1287344607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ditto, it's also less GNU, which helps < 1287344610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, fuck you :P < 1287344614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the results are often awesome < 1287344620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no peers yet! < 1287344620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make it actually often used, though < 1287344629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just too CPU-intensive with modern technology < 1287344637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, even with more everyday-raytracing, you could get global effects from local changes < 1287344642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just somewhat less risk < 1287344645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU IceCat is available as a free download for the IA-32 and PowerPC architectures. Both binaries and source are available, though the current build is available only for GNU/Linux." < 1287344654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need no 64-bit! < 1287344657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It not FREE. < 1287344665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From xiph.org's test media. :) < 1287344674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can't get any peers. sorry < 1287344683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, radiosity, not sure how global that is < 1287344685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw. < 1287344710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are missing my point < 1287344717 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287344728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if, say, illlumination can't be cached, things like shaders often could be < 1287344744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." --Friedrich Nietzsche < 1287344744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm perhaps. < 1287344750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow. *Raw* 480p of Elephant's Dream is just 7.5GB. < 1287344755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's *without any compression at all*. < 1287344768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please tell me that's a genuine quote < 1287344780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow, it looks like one of those "nonsense attributed to a famous person to make it amusing" quotes < 1287344783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRACTICAL! < 1287344787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is if you wrap it in another layer of quotes and append "--Matt Groening" to the end < 1287344794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, alas, no < 1287344830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Debian so need to put that in the about box < 1287344836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or about:mozilla, if it still exists and shows the silly fake Bible thing < 1287344844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i bet mozilla.org removed that because of OFFENCE) < 1287344846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't shaders mostly used for rendering on GPUs? Which means it wouldn't be pre-rendered anyway < 1287344849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't* < 1287344873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be completely wrong < 1287344881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not 3D expert) < 1287344884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no* < 1287344898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shaders are used for everything < 1287344930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it this way: out of the things usually used in a graphics pipeline, shaders are the TC bit < 1287344952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There are no good panel applications for X11. Please rectify this. < 1287344976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the wp article on shaders is bad. It doesn't seem to mention it in the context of rendering for movies and such at all. Just for the GPU context. < 1287344996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, a shader is basically a bit of code that runs on the GPU < 1287345004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying either vertices or pixels in arbitrary ways < 1287345023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd do much the same thing for, say, smoke effects in a 3D movie < 1287345029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so they are not used when you render something in blender or povray? < 1287345056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost certainly depends on what you're rendering < 1287345071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :povray probably doesn't use them because it's insane; I expect blender would, though < 1287345098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One reason why lwm is excellent: Its original developer is "elliotth". < 1287345112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "elliotth" happens to maintain an editor which is inspired by Plan 9's acme. < 1287345115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1287345119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clone, right? SORRY NO HE USES JAVA. < 1287345123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know. < 1287345126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than nothing! < 1287345129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, traditionally "offline" rendering software did not use the GPU at all < 1287345147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The h actually stands for hughes, regrettably. But whatever. < 1287345163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it just goes about raytracing on the CPU, until it is done < 1287345190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GPUs are faster for that sort of calculation < 1287345191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hughes, < 1287345271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, it would use it as GP-GPU though, you don't want opengl/directx rendering look to it. You want something that looks way more realistic < 1287345373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1287345376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do that as shaders < 1287345392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would work yes < 1287345406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adanaxis uses shaders in order to get 4D rendering < 1287345415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, it has a 4D->3D projection shader as a vertex shader < 1287345416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1287345443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then lets the graphics lib handle 3D->2D < 1287345444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think adanaxis would break my brain < 1287345455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that bad, really < 1287345455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also blender for offline rendering still worked on sucky GPUs last I checked < 1287345463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am really terrible at envisioning higher dimensions < 1287345466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried a 4d maze game once < 1287345470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was so bad it wasn't even funny < 1287345473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as old on-board intel in laptop < 1287345478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does it represent 4d? < 1287345484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old enough to probably not have very advanced shaders < 1287345487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: strangely, with adanaxis I can't visualise where everything is, but I can visualise how I need to move to get there < 1287345506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it free or? I don't remember < 1287345513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and via color, and with coordinates of everything relative to your current heading marked on it < 1287345514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gpl with some commercial data available, it seems < 1287345516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But other objects are rendered, very roughly, as projections of 4D objects on the 2D screen.[6] In the game manual, the author says he didn’t yet figure out how to implement real 4D and 4D explosions without making the game require a thousand times more processing power.[1]" < 1287345517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Finally* figured out how I'm going to do this. pullup followed by the yadif deinterlacer. < 1287345523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The game is distributed under the Mushware Software License version 1.4, which refers to the GNU GPL v2, the public domain, proprietary and a number of other licenses." < 1287345533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a GPL version, which is the main version minus all the proprietary stuff < 1287345540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the version I use, but it's only available for Linux < 1287345543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1287345554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I'm going to use linux definitely < 1287345570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't find the source download < 1287345580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what distro are you on? < 1287345582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1287345587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about 4D? < 1287345588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, arch linux, 64-bit < 1287345591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287345592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's imperfect, but best I can do. < 1287345597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they only have .deb and .rpm < 1287345597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the repos on Ubuntu (and presumably Debian) < 1287345609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I definitely don't want to play this on on-board intel graphics :P < 1287345611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there a source .deb? < 1287345617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it'll work with intel < 1287345619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, onboard Intel graphics is what I use to play it < 1287345619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1287345620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has intel < 1287345628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get intel graphics deliberately, because they work well with Linux < 1287345632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably but smaller screen and such < 1287345636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1287345647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, i have the same system as him except with 1366x768 < 1287345653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the game isn't massively intensive < 1287345660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt I could get 4xAA with it. I can with my desktop though < 1287345663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "except"? mine is also 1366x768, IIRC < 1287345671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd get dizzy < 1287345673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is your enjoyment of a game directly enhanced by that extra AA? < 1287345673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just checked < 1287345679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i thought you had the 11 inch version < 1287345685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same screen res < 1287345686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller screen < 1287345689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found it I think < 1287345692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: damn you and your higher ppi! < 1287345694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pixels are smaller, I think < 1287345697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and take that back? < 1287345700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just closer together < 1287345704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bah, fine, i take it back < 1287345709 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287345715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only wish you to be tortured for a billion years because of ppi, not eternity < 1287345717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1287345733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can understand how "damn you" is insulting if you're religious and believe in hell < 1287345745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there is one saying "control demo 0.0.1, source files" and one saying "rendering demo 0.0.1, source files" < 1287345745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can me saying it be offensive, as i absolutely do not believe that any such thing will or should happen? < 1287345754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same demo < 1287345765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you'd like to build from source, GPL releases will be along towards the end of July 2007. These will contain source code but not the commercially-sourced graphics and audio (because of the distribution terms of that content). " < 1287345766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1287345770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like that didn't happen < 1287345774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, insults can be offensive even if you don't need them < 1287345778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes it did < 1287345779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1287345779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ppi? < 1287345781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in debian < 1287345783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have that versoin /installed/ < 1287345788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course source is available < 1287345789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the source one? < 1287345792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "need"? < 1287345793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287345795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pixels per inch < 1287345801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *mean < 1287345809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look at, http://www.mushware.com/portal.php?page=10 notice it says 1.1.4 and such? < 1287345824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then look at the version numbers on http://www.mushware.com/dload.php?action=category&cat_id=7&sid=b132c2cf9fa05a3a16320b70609bc36e < 1287345832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: look harder. debian would never package non-free software. < 1287345835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1287345873 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plots out course plans for the coming years < 1287345875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I guess I could download the source from debian. < 1287345877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: failing that, get the source from debian. < 1287345885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah, 2 seconds before you ;) < 1287345890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just did that, uploading to filebin.ca now < 1287345898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so three people have the same idea < 1287345913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, why upload it? < 1287345918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's available from 438593745934578934578934598345 mirrors already < 1287345933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it'll be in a package < 1287345941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I extracted the orig.tar.gz from the .deb, and am uploading that < 1287345943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287345945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[adanaxisgpl_1.2.5.dfsg.1.orig.tar.gz]" < 1287345949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see packages.debian.org/stable/adanaxisgpl < 1287345950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1287345952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cancels < 1287345967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dfsg in the version number is pretty interesting < 1287345975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, Debian had to modify it to make it open source < 1287345977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1287345978 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287346018 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287346018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The documentation for this package is supplied in a PDF file named < 1287346019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data-adanaxis/About_Adanaxis_GPL.pdf" < 1287346020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not there :D < 1287346021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi catseye < 1287346022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, reading the copyright you know what happened? < 1287346023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS? < 1287346029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1287346037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... an empty directory isn't preserved in .zip files < 1287346039 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows Vista! < 1287346047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick catseye < 1287346053 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m00f < 1287346057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in order to make sure the distro unpacked properly, the Adanaxis added an empty file to it, as normal < 1287346067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they somehow managed to specify that the empty file in question wasn't GPL < 1287346093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Adanaxis"? < 1287346100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Adanaxis person < 1287346108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Debian replaced it < 1287346115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, it's quite hard to follow what happened < 1287346148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with another empty file? < 1287346153 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: while your Persistent Pessimism Principle serves well, in this case it did not hold, as it was overridden by Laziness ("what is the least we must do to reinstall Windows on this laptop" resolved to "only touch the Windows partition") < 1287346164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: with a comment saying /* this is GPL */ or something along those lines, I think < 1287346187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have misinterpreted this < 1287346192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hope I haven't, as it's hilarious < 1287346210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I am wrong < 1287346218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened was that the source was split into GPL/PD/proprietary < 1287346230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with filename conditions to tell which was which < 1287346249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after removing the proprietary stuff, they had to add a stub to get it to compile < 1287346257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same filename as what was there < 1287346299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so there's a big exception saying that despite the license, the file in question is actually GPL < 1287346328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1287346370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being, basically, an empty file < 1287346383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" < 1287346384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287346386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDFLAGS* < 1287346394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian/rules sets that < 1287346399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it does < 1287346408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL uses "-Wl,-z,muldefs" < 1287346414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to delete redundant copies of main() < 1287346419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : defs < 1287346419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Disallows undefined symbols in object files. Undefined symbols in shared libraries are still allowed. < 1287346429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1287346439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hope it deletes the right one then < 1287346446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're all identical anyway... < 1287346453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287346459 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... nice < 1287346468 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they weren't? < 1287346471 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just picks one? < 1287346476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one, IIRC < 1287346488 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very computery of it < 1287346508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which one is the first one? < 1287346512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it errors out, but when you specifically tell it not to, it has to do something else < 1287346524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: first on the command line, first in the archive as a tiebreak, I imagine < 1287346530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why did someone decide to add an option to not error out on that < 1287346542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's useful? < 1287346546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proof that it's useful: I used it) < 1287346562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh, c-intercal is not very normal so... < 1287346570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that doesn't mean it isn't useful, though! < 1287346578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"isn't normally used" != "not useful" < 1287346581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the normal case would be handled by the compiler marking it as common or such < 1287346594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for functions though < 1287346602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1287346637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that mean you can put definitions in header files? < 1287346640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is int x = 3; < 1287346659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose so, although it would screw with whole-program optimization < 1287346675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seems rather like a bad idea < 1287346691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even put int x = 5; in a different header file < 1287346722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: Verdict was: < 1287346722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: CPPFLAGS= -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I${srcdir} -I${srcdir}/API -DNDEBUG -I${srcdir}/Platform/X11 < 1287346726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice way to phrase it < 1287346741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it also lists LDFLAGS and LIBS there < 1287346772 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT FOX HAS NO TAIL AND IT IS HUGGING THAT PLANET < 1287346798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You mean the... Firefox logo? < 1287346811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its body is sort of a tail. < 1287346815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make much anatomical sense. < 1287346825 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I meant, no legs. < 1287346835 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of ALL tail. < 1287346836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, why now. I mean, it been around for a numbers of years... < 1287346837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shower in 10min :D:D:D<3 < 1287346863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Y'know the perfect solution to the various framerates out there? High-quality CRT HDTV that handles them all. DONE. < 1287346867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287346874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, err... why :D:D:D < 1287346876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I remember a discussion I saw online about how to replace people's browsers with Firefox without them noticing < 1287346893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure we all love to maintain hygiene, but.... wtf :P < 1287346894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said that they left both an IE and a Firefox icon on the desktop, /both/ opening Firefox < 1287346895 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, good to know that is a logo and not a psychotic delusion on my part. < 1287346897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a bit overkill < 1287346898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it marks me taking daily showers again < 1287346917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes and? That is quite common < 1287346949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is Fedora's policy to close all < 1287346950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug reports from releases that are no longer maintained." < 1287346969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to weekly showers < 1287346976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as opposed to having to go elsewhere < 1287346978 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid unmaintained bug reports < 1287346994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess they think "well, people will mark them as affecting other releases as well, or reopen them in worst case" < 1287347008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's still stupid :p < 1287347018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relevant: http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html < 1287347027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, what are they going to do? Delete them? leave them open forever? < 1287347035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: leave them open until they're fixed < 1287347038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, after all, if they don't affect the next release, the thing is fixed < 1287347043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from their point of view < 1287347043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should be marked as fixed < 1287347047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was fixed and marked in the bug tracker < 1287347050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because "oh, i hope it just went away" < 1287347054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the real issue is that they are not doing rolling release < 1287347061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with rolling release it would be no issue < 1287347071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't rolling-release Gnome... < 1287347075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was Fedora, but still) < 1287347084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close them automatically after N time. < 1287347086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what Mozilla does. < 1287347091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .... I meant for distro < 1287347096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please read what I said < 1287347102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did. < 1287347107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was saying that it only applies in one very specific case < 1287347112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never claimed it would be relevant for a non-distro < 1287347124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though I know of rolling release non-distros < 1287347144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mrd6 seems to be that way for example < 1287347155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolling release software is generally an excuse not to bother to mark certain commits as stable :) < 1287347163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah :P < 1287347164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trunk? Sure, it'll probably work!" < 1287347167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hope!" < 1287347172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please let it work. Please let it work. Please let it work." < 1287347178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- "Um, it doesn't work." < 1287347185 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for everything *I* care about. < 1287347185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, you DID use the development tree release!" < 1287347194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What can you expect from a git repository?! Silly boy." < 1287347217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, bogons does multicast :D < 1287347218 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hey why wouldn't it / of course it doesn't) work < 1287347226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (ipv6 of course) < 1287347230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, m6bone? < 1287347244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i... don't know what that is :< < 1287347275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, if it isn't hooked up to m6bone it isn't very useful as the situation currently stands. Google it. < 1287347286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wp has a useful article on it < 1287347287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the list of nodes? < 1287347299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nodes of? < 1287347303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wikipedia has no "m6bone" article < 1287347327 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it's like the MBONE for IPv6 or something < 1287347334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287347347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A November 1994 Rolling Stones concert at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas with 50,000 fans was the "first major cyberspace multicast concert." Mick Jagger opened the concert by saying, "I wanna say a special welcome to everyone that's, uh, climbed into the Internet tonight and, uh, has got into the M-bone. And I hope it doesn't all collapse." < 1287347355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ I APPROVE OF THIS SO HARD < 1287347365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, indeed. And unlike mbone it is still active, though currently the activity is shrinking < 1287347375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: link me to the WP article < 1287347378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find none < 1287347400 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1287347401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well maybe it was mentioned in some other article there < 1287347409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, is there a list of who's connected to ti? < 1287347429 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see it not < 1287347431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, the top two services I can get from bogons: < 1287347439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure. sixxs has a list of POPs and lists which ones are connected < 1287347443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 Mb/s download, 448 Kb/s upload, £60 setup, £35/mo < 1287347449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 Mb/s download, 832 Kb/s upload, £60 setup, £45/mo < 1287347456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine is not directly connected there < 1287347462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£35 = 370 kr < 1287347466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer to 371 < 1287347467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does limited multicast though < 1287347472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£45 = 476 kr < 1287347476 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6bone < 1287347487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "M" < 1287347492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i can either get shitty, fast, reasonably-priced broadband or excellent, sort-of-midway-fast, expensive as hell broadband! < 1287347496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the latter matches my speed pretty well. The price is about twice of mine < 1287347497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY < 1287347507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah but bogons are like < 1287347509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hideously competent < 1287347511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have like < 1287347516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 home customers < 1287347519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more business customers < 1287347521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, very small company < 1287347525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. < 1287347534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one of the... two staff members is the one who originally registered bbc.co.uk :) < 1287347537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when working at the BBC < 1287347544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1287347573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, cool people! < 1287347590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok so where's the list of connected people >_> < 1287347599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it wasn't creating by the academics thinking "oh dear, we seem to have more commercial customers than universities hooked up now, maybe we should split that off or something" < 1287347602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1287347605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6bone is being phased out < 1287347606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was how the ISP I use came to be < 1287347612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in 1992 or 1993 iirc < 1287347623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, m6bone != 6bone < 1287347624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1287347625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it became obvious that the availability of IPv6 top level production prefixes was assured, and that commercial and private IPv6 networks were being operated outside the 6bone using these prefixes, a plan was developed to phase out the 6bone (see RFC 3701). < 1287347626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phaseout plan called for a halt to new 6bone prefix allocations on 1 January 2004 and the complete cessation of 6bone operation and routing over the 6bone testing prefixes on 6 June 2006. Addresses within the 6bone testing prefix have now reverted to the IANA, and should no longer be used. < 1287347627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well < 1287347629 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287347630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye linked it < 1287347634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i trust catseye with my HEART < 1287347635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and soul < 1287347640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well. They are different < 1287347641 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to BE an "m6bone" < 1287347643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and splanch < 1287347650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so *give me the list of things on m6bone*! < 1287347651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot find it < 1287347655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.m6bone.net/ < 1287347657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://www.m6bone.net/ < 1287347659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: most useless site ever < 1287347661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and? < 1287347673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, googling m6bone: "About 203,000 results (0.07 seconds) " < 1287347678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so?! < 1287347681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did a fucking search < 1287347688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find a fucking list of ISPs that are fucking conn fucking ected! < 1287347690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple as that! < 1287347691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.sixxs.net/faq/connectivity/?faq=multicast < 1287347700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An FAQ entry! Wonderful < 1287347705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I don't know of such a list eithyer < 1287347706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either* < 1287347710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...then how the hell am i meant to know? < 1287347723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I asked because I presumed they would list it < 1287347744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Optional included extras: [...] Multicast and/or IPv6 routing over ADSL" < 1287347752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well *shrug* < 1287347768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adanaxis takes forever to compile btw < 1287347772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Optional routed IP (/29 or /30 from us)" only £2/month, awesome < 1287347773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, says g++ in the output < 1287347775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1287347778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : can a program that outputs (a program that outputs X) be smaller than the smallest program that outputs X? < 1287347793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sounds like compression < 1287347807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i realise that if you have eval < 1287347808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow didn't notice the time < 1287347811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shower time :D < 1287347812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then e.g. < 1287347819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(that program) could be shorter than the others < 1287347821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assume you don't have eval < 1287347825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know but it reminds me and may be related to a result that there are theorems P such that provable(P) has a much shorter proof than P < 1287347827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also assume that the language doesn't cheat < 1287347833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like HQ9+F < 1287347836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where F outputs "QQQQQQQQQ" < 1287347877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would it be correct to state that if (size of xz + size output of "xz -9 -e otherprogram") < size of otherprogram < 1287347881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also even if you don't have eval you should be able to implement it with little overhead < 1287347883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your condition is true? < 1287347891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287347893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your question < 1287347895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. uh. < 1287347905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: let's consider xz and xz^-1 as two functions instead < 1287347922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Q == the implementation of xz and xz^-1 < 1287347928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you are picky add a shell script wrapper that includes an embedded xz binary and the compressed data < 1287347947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying basically that < 1287347952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|Q| + |xz(P_0)| + C <= P_1 < 1287347959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where C is the constant overhead of actually calling xz^-1 on it < 1287347964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, only a few bits < 1287347969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287347972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1287347974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few bytes rather, but yeah < 1287347974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|Q| + |xz(P_0)| + C <= P_0 < 1287347975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1287347979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|Q| + |xz(P_0)| + C <= |P_0| < 1287347980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1287347981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, that would meet the condition < 1287348002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for a sufficiently large P_0 it should be true < 1287348004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but remember < 1287348010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P_0 has to be the smallest possible program that outputs whatever it does < 1287348014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1287348024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're talking about an output of many, many random bits < 1287348024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, well, then that is trickier < 1287348026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guess what xz can't compress? < 1287348027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random bits! < 1287348030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, that doesn't work < 1287348045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(P_0 has to be basically an output statement for its output to be random like that) < 1287348045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1287348046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1287348047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, random, hm. is pseudorandom okay? < 1287348054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not for kolgomorov complexity < 1287348054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wouldn't help much < 1287348064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm deferring to oerjan who can explain things much less confuzzledly than me :D < 1287348084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm.... define "smallest possible program" < 1287348094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, do you know what kolgomorov complexity is? < 1287348109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest program that outputs X is the program P such that |P| <= |Q| for all Q that output X < 1287348111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then K(X) = |P| < 1287348118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where K is kolgomorov complexity < 1287348134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely random data can't be generated algorithmically, so basically we have a print statement followed by all the data < 1287348144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so K(X) = |X| + C if X is truly random < 1287348147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C just being the "print" overhead < 1287348155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it could be smaller on a different system. < 1287348157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e.g. < 1287348161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what? < 1287348163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like < 1287348165 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some fixed language L < 1287348166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a different computer? < 1287348169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ppc vs x86 < 1287348170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are *such* a fucking software engineer < 1287348171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I mean < 1287348172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you to death < 1287348172 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some fixed language L < 1287348174 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1287348176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what catseye said < 1287348179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287348188 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287348191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus represented as binary doesn't change :p < 1287348199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true < 1287348214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or e.g. specific UTM < 1287348215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: any particular string can be compressed smaller on a particular system, but _most_ strings cannot be compressed (in the kolmogorov or most other senses) < 1287348238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kolgomorov complexity is really deep and beautiful imo < 1287348246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1287348250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like half of information theory right there :P < 1287348265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for two different TC systems there's always a bound to how different their kolmogorov complexities can be - just simulate each in the other < 1287348267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has redone his x264 encoding options < 1287348270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what about this: We have a architecture where the minimal way to output "foo" is 14 instructions long. There is another, single, instruction however, which outputs this sequence of 14 instruction < 1287348279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-x264encopts preset=slow < 1287348281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i already said HQ9+F is not allowed < 1287348282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1287348285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where F outputs a bunch of Qs < 1287348292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we can think of different systems < 1287348296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean something like the lambda calculus < 1287348300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, it could have lots and lots of more instructions apart of those. < 1287348303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care < 1287348306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, x264, for adding presets since I last did the configuration for all that. < 1287348311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :devising a system which allows this can be interesting, but only if it emerges from the definition < 1287348314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than being a cheat < 1287348324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really i'm asking about things like the binary lambda calculus / ski / turing machine / etc. < 1287348334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what you are asking is really "are there any existing languages that allow this"? < 1287348343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1287348352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking an open-ended question to explore in interesting ways. < 1287348358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this concept is foreign to you i apologise. < 1287348378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more interesting question could be if _all_ TC languages allow this < 1287348395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, your intuition is that K(P) < K(X) where P outputs X probably exists in lambda calculus or whatever? < 1287348398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not so sure < 1287348401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might be, I suppose < 1287348406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't very well defined though, and I'm coming up with solutions based on what I know about the question, and you keep adding restrictions (that I didn't see mentioned above) < 1287348415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it feels like getting that result would be so dangerously close to K(X) < K(X) :) < 1287348420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1287348422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically is < 1287348426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you think I'm going to go back and log read the original convo you are wrong < 1287348429 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1287348431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: add one new element to the language, just eval < 1287348438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have been ages ago < 1287348446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then, if the program that outputs P is more than one instruction shorter th-- < 1287348446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1287348450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just changes it for that language < 1287348468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my intuition is that if there is some generic construction in some TC language with arbitrarily large difference in the sizes, then it can probably be converted to any other TC system < 1287348468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm not adding restrictions, i'm rejecting your uninteresting answers < 1287348475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh, adanaxis uses *.tiff in the data files it installs < 1287348485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i'm finding it hard to think of e.g. a python example, as a practical matter < 1287348492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then, you can't really measure python in bytes < 1287348495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, define "interesting" < 1287348503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everything that is not you. < 1287348506 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's similar to compressing a compressed file. < 1287348512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no, not quite < 1287348514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so anything I say you will just reject? < 1287348517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how nasty < 1287348520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you don't have to output the smallest program to output X < 1287348522 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite similar? < 1287348524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to output any old program to output X < 1287348533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the program that outputs that any old program is shorter than the *shortest* program that outputs X < 1287348534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1287348540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or wait, the fact that you can embed an interpreter for the language itself probably means you _cannot_ have arbitrarily large size difference < 1287348543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K(P) < K(X) where P outputs X < 1287348552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the program that provides the length for K(X) does not need to be P < 1287348557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a vastly-shorter-than-P Q < 1287348570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe if you start being interesting like catseye and oerjan and not proposing HQ9+F i will listen < 1287348575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1287348587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: establishing upper bounds sounds fun (although very difficult) < 1287348613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought the question was "is this possible". And it seems like a valid way to note "yes possible, but perhaps not usefully so" < 1287348618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course, if you have an eval instruction, then however much overhead just evalling is, is an upper bound < 1287348634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's very obviously possible... < 1287348659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287348660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, consider a language that, when a program results in a string that's a valid program, evals it, and repeats until it's an invalid program < 1287348669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we can't do this in that language, since the program it outputs would eval itself, etc. < 1287348673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and uh < 1287348679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i guess we could encode it actually < 1287348679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goedel-style < 1287348683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's an ingenious way to make a quineless language < 1287348691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ofc it isn't then capable of arbitrary output < 1287348706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but otoh, i very much doubt that ANY program outputting a goedel-or-similar-encoded program can be shorter than the *shortest program* program outputting the same thing in the native format < 1287348731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so i *think* those languages might be counterexamples < 1287348732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1287348739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait < 1287348748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *every* x in K(x) would have to be something-encoded in this language < 1287348759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since otherwise K would be ... partial, and that makes no sense at all < 1287348764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so no, disregard that, not a counterexample < 1287348772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: maybe if you start being interesting like catseye and oerjan and not proposing HQ9+F i will listen <-- hey _I_ added X to it, not that different :D < 1287348787 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287348792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that was in your regrettably-misspent youth. < 1287348816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, adanaxis, it refuses windowed mode and also refuses native resolution < 1287348822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea how to fix that? < 1287348830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does the same to me, I just play in 1024x768 < 1287348831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be made to do windowed mode in some hidden way < 1287348833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen can manage it < 1287348842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have 1680x1050 < 1287348846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windowed works for me < 1287348849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a separate resolution < 1287348852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the options < 1287348852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was unpleasant < 1287348852 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is, if there is a shorter "generator generator" than a generator, it's only shorter by a "+ C" if you know what I mean < 1287348854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all windowed resolutions < 1287348856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh *looks* < 1287348856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1287348857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The water failed to stay hot < 1287348866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but that's the thing < 1287348868 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a rounding error < 1287348879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: we could have a 3-byte program that outputs "print X; print X; print X" a billion times < 1287348884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and a 4-byte program that outputs X a billion times < 1287348891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3-byte program doesn't output the 4-byte program < 1287348891 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287348892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 800x600 windowed? yeargh that is small < 1287348894 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287348896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it outputs a program that *outputs the same thing* < 1287348901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what's important < 1287348906 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i understand that. < 1287348909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287348927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it seems like the kind of thing that you can prove and then when you try and derive an example it turns out to be five gigabytes big :) < 1287348936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it doesn't go above the tiny 800x600 for windowed mode! < 1287348940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes, as i said the difference cannot be more than the length of wrapping the generator in a self-interpreter implementation < 1287348941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time I disagreed with elliott about something? < 1287348946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that this would only occur at quite long bit lengths. but then the generator-generator would have to be bigger... < 1287348947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1287348958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you doing so now? < 1287348962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1287348962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm is there any tutorial? < 1287348967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know the topi < 1287348969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic < 1287348970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for kolgomorov complexity? < 1287348975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for adanaxis < 1287348978 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, i basically came to that conclusion too... you can write any program of any length you want onto your tape then interpret that. < 1287348979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: first mission < 1287348980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played < 1287348982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1287348989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: K(x) = length of shortest program that outputs x, "kolgomorov complexity" < 1287348998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in some fixed language L < 1287349038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the maximal complexity is when x is random < 1287349046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is terribly interesting. < 1287349049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well. basically. < 1287349054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K(x) = |x| + C when x is random < 1287349061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C is the length of "print this string" < 1287349064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1287349071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287349075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for almost all random strings < 1287349083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course your language could cheat or whatever for a few of them < 1287349085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the idea < 1287349088 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287349089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all strings are incompressible < 1287349095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me or is debian.org down? < 1287349115 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not down. < 1287349129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.debian.org < 1287349129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try reloading: www. debian. org < 1287349131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http sure is < 1287349132 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oerjan : in a sense, "print" is just the simplest interpreter there is :) < 1287349145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: \x.x < 1287349148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: interpreter for the cat language < 1287349152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is quantum disco? < 1287349161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K(x) = |x| for all x in the cat language! < 1287349173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every program is a quine! < 1287349214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|x|? < 1287349222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean for an output to be negative? < 1287349223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%27s_speedup_theorem seems analogous < 1287349231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: |x| = cardinality/length of x < 1287349236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cardinality for sets < 1287349236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, adanaxis only has x,y,z for aiming? That is just 3D, not 4D? < 1287349238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1287349242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is a string < 1287349247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, it can be anything abstract really but < 1287349251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string is the concrete one to go for < 1287349254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, K(x) is a number < 1287349256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're directoin angles < 1287349256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: never heard of it < 1287349258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms self < 1287349259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right click mouse button and move left/right < 1287349261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1287349262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right. < 1287349262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed < 1287349269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a natural number, to be precise < 1287349269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you move yourself though? < 1287349271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're aiming at something in 2D, you only need one angle to describe the direction < 1287349278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: w and s go forwards and backwards < 1287349281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does 0 count as natural? < 1287349289 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i had not considered facepalming someone *else* before now. < 1287349291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1287349300 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like some kind of monk martial arts move < 1287349302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts his palm on catseye's face < 1287349305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS OUR BOND < 1287349307 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: facepalm implies self, I think < 1287349308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no thrust in other axises? < 1287349309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and d strafe horizontally; q and e can be used for the rotations that you can't easily do with the mouse < 1287349313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287349318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: surprise, we're now in a civil union according to the laws of all civilised countries! < 1287349323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thrust is always /forwards/, except with a and d < 1287349325 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MBLEH < 1287349326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIVIL UNIONS: DESTROYING MARRIAGE? < 1287349328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in which dimensions do q and e move < 1287349357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was facepalming *about* myself, as opposed to at someone else's stupidity < 1287349359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move in a particular direction, use the mouse to face in that direction (moving it for two direction axes, right-drag for third), then press w < 1287349365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about strafing vertically or ? < 1287349367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.demolinux.org/en/ecrans/version-debian-gnome.jpg < 1287349372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and q and e rotate the current fourth dimension onto the forwards direction, IIRC < 1287349372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blast from the past < 1287349373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be honest though < 1287349376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that colour scheme < 1287349382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no, not that, that's what rightdrag does < 1287349389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rotate, then strafe < 1287349398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I see < 1287349407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, the usual fourth dimension terminology is ana/kata for the extra dimension) < 1287349434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you ever used DEBIAN STABLE as your main desktop OS? < 1287349442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Being a Debian zealot surely you have. < 1287349444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's STABLE! < 1287349446 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ana/kata? I have heard of it before..... OK, I suppose we can use that, then. < 1287349446 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1287349447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why those words, I thought kata was related to material arts? < 1287349451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian Stable == Debian Obsolete < 1287349457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used stable for servers. < 1287349461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I thought Debian is RIGHT. < 1287349464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're Greek prefixes, IIRC < 1287349470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, different kata then < 1287349476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is, but you don't need that kind of stability for a desktop. < 1287349489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's right because it gives you such awesome choices ;) < 1287349494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But unstable has no obviously-linked installer! < 1287349499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you support SUBVERTING the design of debian.org? < 1287349501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing, man! < 1287349502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TESTING! < 1287349504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: install stable, upgrade? < 1287349505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying that its choices are not RIGHT? < 1287349509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I meant testing. < 1287349509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1287349514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does anyone actually use Debian Testing for anything but testing Debian? < 1287349520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like Unstable, except bugs persist longer < 1287349520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1287349525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every Debian user users testing < 1287349527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the "read game info" link from the main menu is weird, it opens the pdf in firefox.... < 1287349527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uses < 1287349529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1287349534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually: < 1287349539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: kfmclient: command not found < 1287349539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: galeon: command not found < 1287349539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: opera: command not found < 1287349539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: mozilla: command not found < 1287349540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1287349541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Debian Testing = the actual stable Debian < 1287349541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stable is a dinosaur and sid breaks things < 1287349545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it tries firefox < 1287349546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the advice I heard from a Debian user friend of mine was "always use stable or unstable" < 1287349555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your Debian user friend is a retard. < 1287349557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bear in mind that most debian users are idiots. >:) < 1287349560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries konqueror, epiphany and netscape as well before firefox < 1287349562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1287349564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they use Debian! < 1287349573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[mauled by Gregor] < 1287349575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Debian < 1287349595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is your marriage triangle going to be called Grebian? < 1287349599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Weapon upgrades and ammunition are found by collecting the boxes shown below." oh god no. Not one of those games. < 1287349604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THAT JOKE IS INSENSITIVE, IAN AND DEB BROKE UP) < 1287349618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lesson: Never mention your spouse. EVER) < 1287349622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer games with a complex planet-based economy for buying upgrades, rather than random boxes in the void < 1287349631 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should've hyphenated the name or something to commemorate that < 1287349633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Worms uses boxes... < 1287349637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry it wasn't complex enough for you. < 1287349639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Worms isn't set in space. < 1287349645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, arguably it is. < 1287349648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... no. < 1287349656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it was < 1287349663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it change my statement about what I prefer < 1287349664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Deb minus Ian < 1287349667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ? < 1287349676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Vorpal: both of you shut up :P < 1287349686 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to my random-box-based economy < 1287349700 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -deb+ian? depending on who left who, and which one of them (if any) sticks to the debian project < 1287349711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Should I use sid on my server? < 1287349711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you insane? No!]] < 1287349715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: deb never had anything to do with debian < 1287349725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ian just named his distro debian because he was being a ~lovefag~ < 1287349733 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And neither of them stuck to the project :P < 1287349740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ian still uses debian i think < 1287349744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still posts stuff about it on his blog < 1287349760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He wrote the Debian Manifesto in 1993 while a student at Purdue University" < 1287349763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So THAT'S why Gregor likes it! < 1287349774 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, haha < 1287349775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[On joining Sun, he led Project Indiana, which he described as "taking the lesson that Linux has brought to the operating system and providing that for Solaris", making a full OpenSolaris distribution with GNOME and userland tools from GNU plus a network-based package management system.]] < 1287349776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287349792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: they divorced in 2007 < 1287349799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the same day he joined sun to start working on an opensolaris distro >:) < 1287349807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This time, I'll just call it Ian!" < 1287349815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ian Murdock’s Weblog < 1287349816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on emerging platforms and the power of aggregation and integration" < 1287349816 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ian joined sun and went all OpenSolaris-happy. I don't know what happened after he quit when Oracle bought Sun. < 1287349817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god. < 1287349826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He blogs about emerging platforms and the power of aggregation and integration. < 1287349841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Debra doing? < 1287349854 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being non-CS-related. < 1287349854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: weeping < 1287349858 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aggregation and integration, together at last < 1287349874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Aggregation + Integration = Aggregration! < 1287349876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I've been so tired of my unintegrated aggregate too! < 1287349882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1287349883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no r < 1287349891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1287349893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i said was right < 1287349898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integration + Aggregation = Integation! < 1287349904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aggregration and Integation. < 1287349926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aggregation - Integration = Diffregation < 1287349929 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integraggregation < 1287349979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously, debian.org HTTP is down. < 1287350000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol freeze has been frozen < 1287350002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy your cryogenic OS < 1287350006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not? < 1287350019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fully able to access www.debian.org < 1287350021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Use FTP then? < 1287350028 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287350029 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287350035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, try google translate or any other proxy < 1287350036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they have FTP? < 1287350043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Website over FTP? < 1287350045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are crazy. < 1287350077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had thoughts about that when I was a kid. Also about websites over email < 1287350081 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean download the files you need over FTP, if they have FTP and if HTTP doesn't work. < 1287350083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And websites in registry < 1287350090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed http://debian.org/ into Google's Arabic -> English translator. < 1287350096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It decided to transliterate it to حطب://إبن.عرج/. < 1287350098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: < 1287350100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firewood: / / son. Claudication / < 1287350108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firewood://son.claudication/ < 1287350277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you have to use the FIREWOOD protocol if the other protocols do not work < 1287350320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if it doesn't exist, you would have to invent that protocol first before it can be used.) < 1287350327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have to invent it. < 1287350330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is your duty. < 1287350337 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. Maybe I will. < 1287350345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "son.claudication" should be some sort of representation of a path, where the words are the result of hashing some sort of data. < 1287350359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, that could mean "org.debian", where debian is some integer allocated to Debian and org is the standard namespace. < 1287350387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, r.e.s. has a lot of messages on [[Talk:Kolgomorov complexity]] on Wikipedia < 1287350514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just realised that with my joystick I have enough analogue axises to make this quite a lot easier < 1287350526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, it got like 10 of them < 1287350529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287350546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, some are not very usable for this purpose (think hat switch or such) < 1287350551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enough are < 1287350563 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, you could fly three planes at once with such a control! < 1287350567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that isn't enough I have 3 more in my rudder pedals < 1287350576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, or one harrier < 1287350612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, it is nice being able to control the thrust vectoring easily when you need it to land safely :P < 1287350678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you need 4 for a basic plane (pitch, yaw, roll, thrust), so that doesn't give me 3 of then. < 1287350709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umea (probably an o on top of one of those letters) -- how crazy/stupid are they? < 1287350718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umeaboy in #debian is being stupid right now, I want to know the commonality of this < 1287350728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that assumes a jet engine anyway, on many (but not all) propeller planes you had mixture and feathering controls as well < 1287350754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Umeå was the -50°C place I mentioned a few days ago. < 1287350761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah. < 1287350764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his brain must have frozen then < 1287350775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though, it is quite nice up there in the early summer < 1287350798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, it is not -50 every year, it is too close to the coast for that. < 1287350818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets a.... ehrm. "mild" climate. Of course that is in relative terms < 1287350825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can you give me the ip of cdimage.debian.org? < 1287350829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dns for debian.org is bust or something < 1287350840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ host cdimage.debian.org < 1287350840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdimage.debian.org is an alias for ftp.acc.umu.se. < 1287350844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1287350852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm. so they should have it in the same place. < 1287350860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah inded < 1287350861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that might be a geodns though < 1287350861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indeed < 1287350864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1287350864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a /cdimage < 1287350868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was looking at that mirror anyway < 1287350876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought that daily builds were only on the main server since i couldn't find it < 1287350879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how comes, it can't be local to you < 1287350889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the UK, swedish servers get very good times < 1287350891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 uses them too < 1287350898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% CPU usage. HOORAY. < 1287350903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh, better than UK mirrors? < 1287350904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably a combination of not too close to us -- so our paths to them aren't clogged with other people < 1287350906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep < 1287350912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and the fact that you guys have fast interwebs < 1287350936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you know mirrors.kernel.org can easily max out my connection. They use geodns and they have one in Sweden < 1287350945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use that as my arch linux package mirror < 1287350947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :840 KiB/s now < 1287350947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome speed < 1287350948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that server < 1287350963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i use the se.mirrors.kernel.org or whatever as my package mirror on ubuntu < 1287350964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than those that are listed as Swedish mirrors in the mirror listing < 1287350979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrorservice.org in the uk also gets good speeds but the swedish ones are more consistently good < 1287351018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, don't steal our bw. then we will be just as slow as everyone else. After all, it is only right and proper that a country with a fraction of the population of UK and a larger surface area gets a lot more bw :P < 1287351024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per person that is < 1287351052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how the numbers look like when you look at the total bw < 1287351066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Swedishism < 1287351084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "how the numbers look" is idiomatic < 1287351086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the like < 1287351088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english < 1287351130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds like it should be "what the numbers look like" in English? < 1287351139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know google's dns servers? >_> < 1287351144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is also valid < 1287351145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1287351239 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how ... look, what ... look like, same difference in swedish really < 1287351270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287351286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four eights and two eights two fours < 1287351287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google dns) < 1287351347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Connection reset by peer review < 1287351356 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1287351377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Umeaboy, what advantage would as GUI installation have for, say, a server? or a low-resource machine? < 1287351378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bushmills: A newly started company that wants to make every computer-installation by themselves their own way. < 1287351383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: swedish people are retarded. < 1287351435 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, looks like denmark has twice the bandwidth per capita of sweden < 1287351455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wolfram alpha eh? < 1287351481 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, these numbers were from 2004 < 1287351497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAAAMNN YOUUU DENNMAAAARRRKKK < 1287351507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Debian testing in a VM < 1287351540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol, a guy in #debian already has him on ignore from mandriva channels < 1287351545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he said he uses mandriva too) < 1287351556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umea: Sweden's village of idiots! < 1287351571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They spell it Umea there because they can't type the o thing.) < 1287351580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian-installer is nice < 1287351584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the amount of stuff it can do < 1287351617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, end of Swedish upper qwerty row: uiopå < 1287351628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke fails so horribly thus < 1287351630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, they're retarded, you see < 1287351637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't know what that key does < 1287351646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in school they're taught the alphabet < 1287351651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, e, m, u < 1287351656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conveniently, that's Umea backwards < 1287351657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287351659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how it got its name < 1287351665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1287351670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a low resource machine that he wants a GUI install on < 1287351672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are just too far fetched to be funny < 1287351681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and you quote Monty Python? < 1287351688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me clarify: My previous statement is NOT in support of Umeaboy < 1287351700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can't use a text installer? seriously? < 1287351717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..Oh, _GUI Installer_ is the question? < 1287351720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1287351727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "To install X and related stuff, or not" < 1287351728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and debian has one < 1287351733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just downloaded mini.iso < 1287351735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the tiny tiny ISO < 1287351739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course only has a textual install. < 1287351745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the debian graphical installer is very nice. < 1287351782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I set up Debian to be suitable for ancient laptop? I guess I'd be choosing packages myself < 1287351812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian will run on just about anything. < 1287351822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I found adanaxis near impossible and a bit too fast paced to play < 1287351825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could be adventurous and try ~NETBSD~ < 1287351827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike catseye < 1287351833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even on easy the AI is very very good < 1287351840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to be easy to use < 1287351853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and netbsd isn't? < 1287351863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not the foggiest idea < 1287351870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is NetBSD even supported? < 1287351871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: get used to strafing < 1287351873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1287351878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it powers a good portion of the internet. < 1287351878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the AI is good, but its weapons aren't particularly good < 1287351883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good good portion. < 1287351885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of course it runs NetBSD. < 1287351887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you spend a lot of time dodging, they mostly can't hit you < 1287351890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many embedded devices < 1287351891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh < 1287351891 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put X and Gnome Desktop and whatever on it and there you go, easy to use < 1287351892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, your weapons have a /very/ long range < 1287351896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's more supported than Linux. < 1287351896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, how do you strafe in the 4th dimension? < 1287351898 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applies to any OS < 1287351898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow < 1287351902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll even be so bold to say < 1287351907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it q + a and d then? < 1287351908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: even windows? :P < 1287351909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: who cares; you can dodge in any direction you like < 1287351916 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, what the hell < 1287351919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a and d to strafe, and the mouse to change which directions those mean < 1287351927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that isn't the issue as much as the AI dodging me < 1287351939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your weapons are homing; as long as you're locked on when you fire, you won't be dodged < 1287351940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287351945 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1287351947 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287351947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell you're locked on because the fire cursor changes < 1287351957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I have a notebook, Ancient Laptop doesn < 1287351958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? that pdf didn't agree on that completely < 1287351960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and potentially hit from a very long distance, as long as you aim well enough to get the lock < 1287351963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem cute anymore < 1287351964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it depends on which weapon you use < 1287351971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine gun doesn't, for instance, so only really works at short range < 1287351974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic weapon homes just fine < 1287351978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know, I never seen any weapon boxes < 1287351990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I haven't been able to pick any up < 1287352065 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weapon boxes considered harmful < 1287352082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get weapon boxes on the first few levels < 1287352087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shield and health boxes come up earlier < 1287352100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to coerce Win98 to understand WiFi USB thingies? < 1287352103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't seem to have more than the green weapon? < 1287352106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is < 1287352106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be the best < 1287352131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: uhh. < 1287352133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, unlikely < 1287352137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with a zombie raccoon < 1287352141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: green just means you're misaiming it < 1287352153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weapons are all white, but they go green if they go offcourse into the fourth dimension < 1287352156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I meant in the lower right corner < 1287352156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or red the other way < 1287352158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone name my Debian VM < 1287352165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's always green no matter what weapon you're using < 1287352166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX < 1287352171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287352182 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: marzipan < 1287352190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ...why < 1287352198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :192MB RAM < 1287352200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HungFarLo < 1287352201 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY, he asks. < 1287352204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, manual says I'm using the "Plasma Spitter" < 1287352207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by matching up the image < 1287352207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel Celeron < 1287352228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I... what? < 1287352242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the blue mode? no chance to hit then? < 1287352247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's not ancient! < 1287352249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the cursors I mean < 1287352251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287352253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross hair < 1287352254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1287352281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: blue and red are the lock-on mode < 1287352289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down the mouse button, and eventually you'll blow up what you're aiming at < 1287352290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puppy Linux should work, right? < 1287352303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 4 will < 1287352312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: maybe marzipan < 1287352318 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just lay down newspaper first < 1287352329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking matryoshka for the nestedness < 1287352329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1287352331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too long < 1287352333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and too russian < 1287352334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sometimes it doesn't want to fire even when blue or red < 1287352344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no it isn't empty ammo < 1287352349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked that of course < 1287352358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mostly when the distance is long < 1287352360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fires no matter what sort of crosshairs you have < 1287352369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bullets take a while to actually hit < 1287352377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an instant-hit weapon like the laser < 1287352438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions other than marzipan? < 1287352454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never heard the gun sound or saw any bullets leaving < 1287352462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely that means "not fired" < 1287352470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1287352474 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Racket installer for Windows, you are the only remaining Windows installer that creates one of the "backdrop" windows to block out the rest of the screen. Congratulations on your anachronismus. Sincerely, C. < 1287352476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you aren't muddling ammo and health? < 1287352481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ammo regenerates over time, health doesn't < 1287352496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty sure yes < 1287352525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I'm not sure < 1287352536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Are you seriously just going to use windows? < 1287352584 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not just < 1287352643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: name my box, please, just to save me from the marzipan < 1287352656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you want a hostname? < 1287352671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes. for my Debian testing installation inside a VM < 1287352682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what's wrong with marzipan in that case... < 1287352691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: forget I even said marzipan :P < 1287352696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pick a random word from Wiktionary < 1287352704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's important, for a hostname in a VM, which can be changed later < 1287352716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain to change though < 1287352717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bah, fine < 1287352721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says "insinuates", btw < 1287352724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind-of cool < 1287352735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a non-noun/adjective as a hostname? < 1287352736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you crazy? < 1287352746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change the part of speech easily enough < 1287352750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"insinuation" or whatever < 1287352888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow < 1287352889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would NetBSD be easy to use for someone not used to using computers? < 1287352897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you translate to latin in google translate < 1287352900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sets it in marble < 1287352921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it'd be much like, say, Nexenta < 1287352923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe if you stuck gnome on it and taught them how to use it carefully with a strong understanding of HCI and how people interact with computers < 1287352938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to give a useless question (that's missing far too much context to be useful) a useless answer < 1287352941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you don't have such an understanding, then you can't help them. < 1287352953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you give them a computer you'll get 1,000,000,000,000 questions a day < 1287353039 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a million million questions! < 1287353061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the million dollar question. < 1287353112 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a million dollars each? that's a lot of dollars < 1287353143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's as much as four tens. < 1287353145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's terrible. < 1287353174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: save me from the marzipan < 1287353176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a hostname < 1287353227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the ammo regenerates over time, health doesn't <-- way to revert reality :D < 1287353241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *invert? < 1287353251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, HP are an abstraction < 1287353371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Call it debian_testing_in_a_vm. That's a really imaginative name. < 1287353371 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: call it Moxie < 1287353383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that's what Gregor probably calls his machines < 1287353395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION averts overtly answering < 1287353399 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: call it Falcon < 1287353427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, my machines are of the form G[r]gor < 1287353432 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: call it Ipsekhiphtl < 1287353442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: luftspeiling < 1287353469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously? < 1287353472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grx86gor? < 1287353475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grintelgor? < 1287353483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Grellgor? < 1287353490 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine-type is the CLASS of machine, not the ARCHITECTURE. < 1287353496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. gdeskgor, glapgor < 1287353518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpadgor < 1287353540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grtoastergor < 1287353556 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287353574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicable things: Debian still defaults to ext3. < 1287353582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext4, guys? Heard of it? < 1287353584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ext4 properly tested yet? < 1287353588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very much so < 1287353591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the default in Ubuntu < 1287353594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has been for a few releases < 1287353598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't taste like butterflies. < 1287353603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but Ubuntu changed the default to ext4 before it was working properly < 1287353610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, I suppose, rather typical for Ubuntu... < 1287353611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On 15 January 2010, Google announced that it would upgrade its storage infrastructure from ext2 to ext4." < 1287353616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's stable. < 1287353619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure if it had been fixed since < 1287353619 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: call it facepalm < 1287353621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear God is it stable if Google are switching to it. < 1287353626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: too late, marzipan'd < 1287353626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, agreed < 1287353636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet even the testing installer defaults to ext4. < 1287353637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I like the concept of facepalming someone else, btw < 1287353637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ext3. < 1287353646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switches to ext4 < 1287353688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets noatime... < 1287353702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not relatime? < 1287353710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1287353714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atime is basically useless < 1287353719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason not to just disable it < 1287353734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, relatime disables setting it in all situations except the ones that people actually occasionally use < 1287353765 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287353766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik nobody actually uses it even then < 1287353802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs will be cool < 1287353802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/5HoE6.png < 1287353805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atime is hilariously useless on Windows, btw < 1287353811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....I think my code tends to look like that < 1287353815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in order to display it, it access the file < 1287353816 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, adanaxis really failed with multiple monitors < 1287353819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it always shows the current time < 1287353830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's very obvious that the lines about ugly code < 1287353832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are from someone else < 1287353842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the highlighted line, and the "(WTF IS READABILITY???)" line < 1287353852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287353854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first because of the different capitalisation and obvious "i'm a virgin" insult < 1287353856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second for the same reason < 1287353859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the code isn't actually that unreadable < 1287353863 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287353875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. Because I can imagine my code looking a bit like that < 1287353878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although another image suggests it has an XSS in it that the developer acknowledged in a comment :) ) < 1287353916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287353921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namesys is now officially "suspended" as a corporation < 1287353924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this year < 1287353935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Their website has not been accessible since November 2007. Edward Shishkin, a Namesys employee, was quoted in a January 2008 CNET article as saying that "commercial activity of Namesys has stopped".[3]]] < 1287353966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1287354082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's not an XSS < 1287354103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose SQL Injection could be used for that for some weird reason < 1287354117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not ... /me forgot the exact definition of XSS < 1287354124 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287354144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it involves putting malicious stuff in the page that someone else sees and seems to come from a trusted source < 1287354147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stealing cookies etc. < 1287354160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But would such a thing inserted via SQL Injection count? < 1287354170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't really be "cross-site" < 1287354174 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287354534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In addition to the (probable) sql injection bit, it also uses "state" directly as part of the generated page; you can stick a script in there, that's something that would be considered XSSy, I would think. < 1287354595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: I did nm -C on adanaxis... and looked for the longest prototype. It is 1281 chars long! < 1287354648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some templately thing from libstdc++ < 1287354706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it isn't the longest one when you look at the mangled name for it < 1287354797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, the standard types have shorthands in iirc < 1287354894 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh almost done < 1287355199 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, um. looks like i can't download the JDK without a user account, now? < 1287355220 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just that oracle mucked up the site? < 1287355227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even both < 1287355473 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1287355488 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1287355490 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1287355569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use openjdk? < 1287355577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows < 1287355588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on windows < 1287355602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Explain this monstrosity: http://imgur.com/JWR4K.png < 1287355690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Somewhere I have a screenshot of OpenSolaris' install where it lets you select "no language" < 1287355706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I actually have on fucking idea which option to select. < 1287355714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally not my problem distro. I didn't even select the advanced install. < 1287355715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I :P < 1287355719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do whatever you feel's best, man. < 1287355722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what does that correspond to? C locale? < 1287355724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, ignoring it is always the right option. < 1287355727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yup. < 1287355737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but, I'm not convinced it's selected a UK layout. < 1287355748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be better expressed as "program default language (usually English)" < 1287355751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a bit long < 1287355751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then select a keymap from the full list. < 1287355772 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This was what to set $LANG to by default, so that doesn't QUITE make sense. < 1287355787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set it, by default, to the default < 1287355791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, doesn't it? < 1287355810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wouldn't even offer an option to use C as $LANG. < 1287355818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that *ever* a good idea for a system-wide setting? < 1287355836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that the debian installer? < 1287355839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1287355844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Somewhere I have a screenshot of OpenSolaris' install where it lets you select "no language" <-- i now imagine an OS where all messages are given as interpretive dance videos < 1287355844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but it's the nightly build < 1287355845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for debian linux? < 1287355848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ic an forgive the unusability < 1287355850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or debian/hurd? < 1287355850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes... < 1287355852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux < 1287355855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not that crazy. yet < 1287355858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i tried it < 1287355859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then "wtf" :P < 1287355862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no way does it have a graphical install < 1287355864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ancient < 1287355865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hurd) < 1287355869 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287355870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's a nightly build of the installer < 1287355872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing latest testing < 1287355873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO EYAH < 1287355874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YEAH < 1287355878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could be debian/somebsd < 1287355884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1287355886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287355888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1287355895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, select from full list probably < 1287355909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just left it as-is < 1287355913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since the "select keymap from arch list" is missing there < 1287355924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er? < 1287355925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well if you have US international it probably works < 1287355925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1287355927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the first option < 1287355930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the list < 1287355930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287355931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiht < 1287355939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i set United Kingdom as my location before, so < 1287355942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thought that was some header < 1287355944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's not dumb < 1287355946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah < 1287355979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the selection played tricks on the apparent colour of the first element < 1287355983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think debian-installer is the only program that pulls off using the exact same interface on the console and graphically. < 1287355983 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287355986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it looked like the background is darker < 1287355988 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than for those below < 1287355989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly it's not hideous. < 1287355991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1287355995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, optical illusion I think < 1287355998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still see it < 1287356009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.dropbox.com/u/309724/optical/same-color-illusion.png < 1287356010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but only at a specific distance from the screen < 1287356014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's the worse < 1287356019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the most striking optical illusion of all < 1287356025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, old < 1287356028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1287356030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but famous < 1287356037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still impossible to believe without verifying < 1287356038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, why dropbox? < 1287356043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first google image result < 1287356052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Debian, I don't want the graphical desktop environment. < 1287356060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ASSEMBLING MY OWN YAY < 1287356109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw, i don't want to have that clonky large font size look and fell in the terminal, i want the ubuntu one! how can i achieve it? < 1287356110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : roOoty: just get logged in first < 1287356110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jpinx-eeepc: yes, but i want to know if it is worht all the logging in or if it would be better to stick with ubuntu or something :) < 1287356112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have learned something today < 1287356116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#debian makes me want to stab people < 1287356129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, the text install asks that question in a very different way, and I never use the graphical installer, which is why I have no answer :P < 1287356130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, any Ubuntu or Mandriva user who comes into #debian will then proceed to be maximally imbecilic < 1287356143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought everywhere did that to you < 1287356144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, no, there's the same questions in both. < 1287356150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This will just be a nightly-build issue/thing. < 1287356155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or perhaps a NEW INSTALLER FEATURE < 1287356156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes but. < 1287356163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like most people in #esoteric! < 1287356167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1287356171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Vorpal i wouldn't stab. probably. < 1287356178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd already told it my location, so. < 1287356223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have in the past iirc < 1287356231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In... real life? < 1287356238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, over irc I meatn < 1287356240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant* < 1287356243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am truley sorry for your lots. < 1287356262 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287356311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. It surely can't have netinstalled already. < 1287356312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1287356312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did. < 1287356320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it installed all the packages before asking that silly question. < 1287356326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve. < 1287356336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to GRUB! < 1287356346 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287356356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did that other elliott use the nick "elliott" or ? < 1287356358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The malicious spreadsheet would find it very hard to get access to ".ssh": why would the user choose ".ssh" if Gnumeric opened a powerbox out of the blue without a good reason?" < 1287356365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliottcable and ec < 1287356365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm upgrading the nick normalising regexp < 1287356366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because users are clueless < 1287356371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah no collision then < 1287356381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the dodgy spreadsheet can pop up a dialog claiming to go to this or that file... < 1287356384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! I think Debian has... < 1287356387 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287356391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Debian automatically installed the VirtualBox drivers. < 1287356397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1287356403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have mouse integration *on the console*. < 1287356409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, how old is that new console font? < 1287356416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thin-ish one with the fancy g. < 1287356421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this stable, unstable, or testing? < 1287356426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the strangely short p. < 1287356428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: testing < 1287356431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aka squeeze right now < 1287356433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On a scale from one to ten, I have no fucking clue. < 1287356436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A piece of text that can be displayed in the powerbox window to describe why the application wants to be granted some authority. < 1287356437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1287356437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is frozen, and will become the stable release in like 349587345 years < 1287356440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes it even easier < 1287356453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, frozen testing < 1287356453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast bootup, though. < 1287356462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains why they removed C-INTERCAL, at least < 1287356466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should use testing when it's thawed, too... < 1287356467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287356477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bitter are we? :p < 1287356481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made sense, I was just wondering "why then" < 1287356486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not bitter, I agree with the decision < 1287356551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why did they remove it? < 1287356561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmaintained < 1287356572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at Debian, that is < 1287356625 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287356629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any easy-to-use distros that use Plash by default? If not, there should be. < 1287356677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the part where things don't use sudo by default. < 1287356683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You use sudo, right? See, that's a bad thing about Debian. < 1287356688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use sudo by default because it's run by nazis. < 1287356706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eh* < 1287356710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You straight-up can't use it on anything but Debian (or Debian-based). < 1287356715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1287356723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1287356724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Debian didn't automatically install the VirtualBox drivers for *me*. < 1287356739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because Plash does fucking *crazy* shit that's Debian-specific. < 1287356740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sure with sufficient hackery you COULD use it on other distros, but it wouldn't be fun. < 1287356744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I may be hallucinating, but VirtualBox definitely told me it saw sum of dat mouse integration support. On the *console*. < 1287356747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no X.org.) < 1287356748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO FIGS < 1287356753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Holy fuck that's awesome. < 1287356756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: select count(*) from irc.logs_na where type = 1 and nick = 'elliott' and body like 'stabs %'; yields 24. Apart from one case of stabbing RMS and one case of stabbing your own eye (using a rake), they were all nicks in the channel at that point of time. < 1287356765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287356765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1287356767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i received root's mail just there < 1287356768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which Debian and which install media? < 1287356770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the first one happened one year and two days ago < 1287356771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sudo warning that i'm not in sudoers) < 1287356774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it do Debian specific stuff? < 1287356776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: testing, netinst < 1287356778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1287356779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is after i rebooted < 1287356781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't sorted < 1287356785 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs a rake < 1287356786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Same; didn't see that after rebooting. < 1287356789 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with his eye < 1287356790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one case of stabbing your own eye (using a rake)" < 1287356793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... okay. < 1287356805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sorry, the first one happened in 2008 < 1287356810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono, he stabbed the RAKE < 1287356821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, that was catseye. < 1287356825 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just now < 1287356862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the body of the CTCP action was "stabs his eyes out with a rake" < 1287356885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UTC-normalised timestamp is "2008-08-09 16:02:45" if anyone cares < 1287356886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what happened to Gobuntu? < 1287356898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, I wasn't keeping track < 1287356907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to have spontaneously ceased to exist before ever being released < 1287356917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps they decided they were being outcompeted by Debian or something < 1287356924 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK! Now for the *experiment* < 1287356937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm, nerds. < 1287356956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is eating nerds. < 1287356962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, some thingy based off of Ubuntu, forked and pushed with Plash preconfigured < 1287356968 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the candy, i assume < 1287356976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basing things on Ubuntu: the best way to quickly show you have no idea what anything. < 1287356988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base it on Debian, then < 1287356990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was gobuntu? < 1287356993 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trubuntu < 1287356997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/taking-freedom-further < 1287357006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could explain it to you, but that comic does it perfectly well, and funnier. < 1287357022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plash wants Debian. I want easy-to-use < 1287357030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has never used Debian. Or Plash. < 1287357064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is obscene how many drivers come with X.org on Debian. < 1287357069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1287357078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true... < 1287357090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever looked how many are installed on ubuntu? < 1287357097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it is best for my sanity that I do not. < 1287357098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a shitload as well < 1287357121 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what OSes have you used? < 1287357125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about 20 video drivers and 10 or so input drivers < 1287357151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is, number of separate packages < 1287357152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor is eating nerds. <-- more filling than babies, i assume < 1287357156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not number of supported chipsets < 1287357159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not put the nerd in the mouth. < 1287357161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows, um, you want a list of Linux distros? Ubuntu, Freespire < 1287357161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be way higher < 1287357173 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless they are baby nerds. or nerd babies? < 1287357196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you installing debian? < 1287357212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, why not netbsd!? < 1287357217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is soooooo much better isn't it < 1287357219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetBSD hates my VMs! < 1287357226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With QEMU there's no networking, far as I can tell. < 1287357231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With VirtualBox it *segfaults* trying to boot up. < 1287357237 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so kitten will be a debian fork then? great... < 1287357242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hell naw! < 1287357243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freespire is dead? < 1287357244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1287357257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: can you detect nerdiness in babies? < 1287357259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has like the worst taste in everything. < 1287357271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I've only installed Debian to do some LeanDE mockups. < 1287357271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, freespire? what, is that like taking the shitty linspire and removing everything that made it different? < 1287357292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (LeanDE = a few pieces of software + configurations for them, constituting a desktop environment that sucks ever so slightly less.) < 1287357299 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha, I see < 1287357302 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at age 18 months! < 1287357303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there was a Linux distro that I hated once < 1287357307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux XP, iirc < 1287357309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The only good thing about the Linspire folks is that they used Haskell for a lot of their system software. < 1287357318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is actually nice < 1287357346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kept asking me for money. Looked like crap. Don't remember if it behaved like crap < 1287357349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Debian's default X11 configuration no longer uses twm < 1287357353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a gigantic, white-on-black xterm < 1287357356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covering the entire screen < 1287357357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm would it be a good idea to switch to writing security sensitive software in haskell? Such as su and sudo. < 1287357367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well. < 1287357372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably not. because you have to trust GHC < 1287357374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s runtime < 1287357381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah good point < 1287357383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and, like < 1287357384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sudo < 1287357385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want a much smaller runtime < 1287357387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to get the password < 1287357387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash it < 1287357391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then GET RID OF IT IMMEDIATELY < 1287357397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in haskell by using pointers and stuff but < 1287357398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very good point < 1287357406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there could be a nice abstraction for that but there isn't one yet < 1287357416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as it stands, no, i wouldn't trust haskell with such things < 1287357421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utilities and package managers though, sure < 1287357421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want to mlock() the password too < 1287357426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287357443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287357446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue is trusting C with this.... < 1287357461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well C itself is perfectly trustable, it's the C coding itself < 1287357469 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :potentially you could hash it as it comes in and discard each character after it's hashed. ha < 1287357476 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, it would probably be simple enough that you can read it and determine that it looks safe :) < 1287357477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and I bloody hope sudo's password handling code is careful < 1287357479 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm dreaming < 1287357484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hahahaha < 1287357492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: AHAhaahahaha < 1287357495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaahahahahahahahahahahaa < 1287357499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa < 1287357533 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and from that day, elliott spoke only in combinations of 'a' and 'h' < 1287357543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm "* tusho stabs ais523's eyes out", not very nice < 1287357556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287357566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287357572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HE PROBABLY DESERVED IT < 1287357601 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, elliott: The real question is why su and friends aren't compiled with compcert :P < 1287357608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "* ehird stabs oerjan repeatedly with the Ancient Staff of http://www.google.com/chrome" < 1287357611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does `addquote still work? < 1287357613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite absurd XD < 1287357619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. Slowly. < 1287357627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: compcert only compiles to ppc :P < 1287357637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i believe he mentioned using IE < 1287357642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WAIT < 1287357643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, it supports x86 now. < 1287357644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mhm < 1287357645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We could use qemu. < 1287357647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: To run the ppc code. < 1287357660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, compcert? < 1287357666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: formally verified C compiler < 1287357668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in Coq < 1287357670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1287357677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So you like compcert then. So I guess you like academic, purely functional, sub-TC languages. < 1287357678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow err, why < 1287357680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y'know, like Coq. < 1287357688 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1287357689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because you can't trust gcc and friends to compile code correctly. < 1287357692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can trust compcert in this way. < 1287357706 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[09/2010] Version 1.8 of the Compcert C compiler is available. It includes [..] a new port generating x86-32 bits code" < 1287357726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong, the xterm doesn't cover the screen < 1287357728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well... that depends on the reasoning about x86 code being correct < 1287357730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the screen is black, too < 1287357736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's formally verified. with Coq. < 1287357741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: read the papers < 1287357751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like Coq. < 1287357760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, compcert is actually programmed in Caml < 1287357762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, but that means whoever told coq about what the asm did had better not typo :P < 1287357764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You like O'Caml? < 1287357765 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, have they removed the insanely ugly checkerboard pattern in X? < 1287357770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, Debian have < 1287357777 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287357778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think you quite understand < 1287357779 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287357786 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have no faculty to understand that ":P" means "I am not being serious here!" < 1287357790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287357804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have clearly never conversed with Vorpal before. < 1287357819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that must be why it didn't work. < 1287357824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yup :P < 1287357829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how does stuff set the default X11 resolution in this bright new xorg.conf-less age? < 1287357834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Thanks for pointing out that it was down. < 1287357838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ";P" means "not being serious". ":P" means either that or "hah, take that" < 1287357843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when I use them < 1287357855 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experiment successful! < 1287357867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, how does stuff set the default X11 resolution in this bright new xorg.conf-less age? < 1287357867 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *can* burn DVDs under Windows. < 1287357867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1287357870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet it still seems slow? < 1287357877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: NetBSD. Burn. Go. < 1287357890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gnome-monitor-settings or something ;P < 1287357892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1287357896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, what do *they* do? < 1287357898 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Soon. < 1287357899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whaddya mean, "stuff"? < 1287357901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It always takes a long time the first time. < 1287357905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, call xrandr maybe? < 1287357910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, that. MAAAGIIIC < 1287357916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, and have X11 switch to a bad resolution even beforehand? < 1287357918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat. < 1287357927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh that. Magic < 1287357930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287357936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh. < 1287357938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1287357942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure that you create an xorg.conf. < 1287357949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ubuntu doesn't. < 1287357950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But MINIMAL! < 1287357952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are asking about deep black magic. < 1287357954 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badrelution < 1287357956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you expect. < 1287357967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's my epic misunderstanding about Plash? < 1287357975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently to X11, white means "another kind of checkerboard". < 1287357983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1287357986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHH wait no. < 1287357991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used -fg instead of -solid. < 1287357992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILLY ME. < 1287358009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What does it have to do, make a telephone call? Copy an entire hard drive? Request permission from a million servers? Make slow magic spell? < 1287358021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think anyone except a handful of select initiates that passed the rite of being X developers know how you set the defaults any more < 1287358023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is totally broken my friend. < 1287358061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think there's a single person left in the world who likes X11 now. < 1287358085 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287358120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even the X11 devs. < 1287358144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sprunge.us/gKWJ < 1287358167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never stabs anyone1 < 1287358171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSHI- < 1287358179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ffff < 1287358181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego is slow < 1287358182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimalist xorg.conf = contradiction < 1287358188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1287358195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is type=1 /me? < 1287358205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, and you fail at sql syntax too < 1287358208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for matching the body < 1287358214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make sense, especially since there can't be text at the beginning < 1287358219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than stabs < 1287358224 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all options for accessing linux parts from windows vista seem a bit unwholesome, so I'm going to boot into Ubuntu and copy to here instead < 1287358245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs procrastinatory tiredness < 1287358249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AARGH. It seems that what most things do is just *make gdm/whatever run xrandr -s*. < 1287358258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and postgresql is way faster than sqlite at queries < 1287358281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1287358282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you might find that useful to know as well < 1287358284 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once HackEgo started working, now it works faster, it is no longer as slowly. < 1287358291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's shift-click that's the annoying fucking prick < 1287358292 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287358301 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287358308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE SGEO_ DIE < 1287358317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Sgeo_ < 1287358338 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab. < 1287358347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... I think I just remembered why I generally gon't get IRC stabby < 1287358393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1287358417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried changing things in .fmt files for TeX, to see what happens. < 1287358468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.auto-west.blogspot.com – It over driven with steam vehicles, was thought already in XVII in. Priest from Flanders, Ferdinand Verbiest, such driven with steam vehicle had in 1678 allegedly to introduce Chinese emperor, however there are no no proofs on this. Therefore it for first constructor of car recognise Nicolas – Joseph Cugnot which presented in 1769. Next important period such car in history of car are summer about 1870. Sieg < 1287358468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fried Marcus constructed first car driven with petrol then. It was can not be sure who first engine about burning constructed internal. It recognise that this made almost simultaneously several German engineers, independently from me. Karl Benz constructed in 1885 first car in Mannheim, patent soon later received and he in 1888 began production. Gottlieb Daimler together with from Wilhelmem Maybachem in 1889 in Stuttgarcie designed acting on simi < 1287358469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lar principle vehicle. < 1287358479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including making category codes that are not in range, and making a macro with expansion that has unbalanced {} < 1287358526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.auto-west.blogspot.com – [...] <-- url fail < 1287358533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, the blog you were looking for does not exist. However, the name auto-west is available to register! " < 1287358533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :D < 1287358539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some spam < 1287358544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287358545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old spam < 1287358563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where did you find that < 1287358571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tuxicity.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/configure-your-resolution-in-ubuntu-and-debian/ < 1287358589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287358618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for me it automagically uses best resolution < 1287358621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the native one < 1287358630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VM < 1287358638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 244| [...] <-- that took _five_ minutes? < 1287358639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it chooses one that gives me *scrollbars* in the vm window < 1287358639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh good question < 1287358649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could just X -configure but blergh < 1287358653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1287358670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the VM is overloaded I think < 1287358670 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1287358671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1287358695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why is codu.org timing out? < 1287358707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now it works < 1287358717 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Trac or everything else? < 1287358732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the repo listed in `help < 1287358734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was timing out < 1287358785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`stat quotes/quote.db < 1287358790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lots of things have been going weird recently :( < 1287358803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the metadata in http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/dbc0ae026888/quotes/quote.db looks outdated < 1287358810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was changed more recently than that < 1287358812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run stat quotes/quote.db < 1287358836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, check top, is it overloaded? < 1287358846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What is XFCE's official display manager? < 1287358847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Right now it most certainly is, I'm poking at it and doing shit :P < 1287358850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if not, then your xen host is overloaded and you need to change < 1287358851 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287358851 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File: `quotes/quote.db' \ Size: 28672 Blocks: 56 IO Block: 4096 regular file \ Device: ca01h/51713d Inode: 1551941 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2010-10-17 22:40:08.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2010-10-17 22:40:08.000000000 +0000 \ Change: < 1287358876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file quotes/quote.db < 1287358881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, okay... < 1287358882 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotes/quote.db: SQLite 3.x database < 1287358888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run du -sh quotes/quote.db < 1287358891 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28K quotes/quote.db < 1287358892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: N/A < 1287358899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sqlite3 quotes/quote.db VACUUM < 1287358904 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287358907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run du -sh quotes/quote.db < 1287358908 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28K quotes/quote.db < 1287358909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay: if XFCE released a LiveCD, what display manager would it use? < 1287358913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, didn't save much < 1287358936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or anything, as far as you know :P < 1287358945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1287358974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 244 < 1287358977 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287358980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to aptitude full-upgrade Codu as if that's a solution. < 1287358980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was that the command? < 1287358988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed. < 1287358992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your quote adding seems like it didn't get registered < 1287359000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 243 < 1287359000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is why I tested something on the db < 1287359002 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243| ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic < 1287359018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why did " 244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream" never get registered < 1287359018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: full-upgrade. ANOTHER command? < 1287359037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's equivalent to dist-upgrade. < 1287359045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i thought safe-upgrade was thet hing. < 1287359049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, take backup < 1287359058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287359058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Presumably it failed to merge. < 1287359064 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrade was unsafe, safe-upgrade was too conservative, dist-upgrade upgrades everything? < 1287359065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, err, okay < 1287359069 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: safe-upgrade is upgrade. < 1287359074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh. < 1287359077 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287359077 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why upgrade couldn't just be fixed < 1287359083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I have no idea about any of these stupid commands. < 1287359120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 244 < 1287359124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want a decent display manager! < 1287359134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdm is nice but you have to configure it tons with -- ugh -- Xresources. < 1287359141 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287359167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1287359168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1287359180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please stop that < 1287359188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, all two of them? < 1287359189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the system is overloaded anyway < 1287359200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read. < 1287359206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uptime < 1287359222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the load averages will be < 1287359258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 243 < 1287359287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 243| ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic < 1287359288 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. < 1287359288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I'm waiting for the Routing Information Protocol to be superseded. Know why? < 1287359294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why? < 1287359300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so I can say "RIP RIP" < 1287359320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you're relevant as always < 1287359321 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's different? it seems pointless to have vector-set! and vector-ref. ( hm, this button should be about 100 mbps both directions. at least, i think < 1287359323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run uptime < 1287359359 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287359370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. < 1287359370 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sounds pretty cool. very similar, and i'd like to see source code.) good stuff. i just think it would < 1287359389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, please stop that < 1287359389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, the system is overloaded anyway < 1287359391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1287359395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh yeah < 1287359406 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lovin' how while I'm doing a dist-upgrade and super-overloading the system everybody wants to use it :P < 1287359407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a sucky system too < 1287359416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what, codu? < 1287359418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not it isn't... afaik < 1287359445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, my system is was more responsive than that when dist-upgrading from jaunty to karmic and karmic to lucid < 1287359462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just defer to Gregor here..... < 1287359523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/Wajig_Overview.html Wow. < 1287359526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a lot of commands. < 1287359529 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287359529 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287359529 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:52:03 up 19 days, 4:27, 0 users, load average: 15.92, 12.08, 8.42 < 1287359534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, but recently it's been pretty bad. I don't know if it's an issue with prgmr or me. < 1287359547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wajig.togaware.com/gjig-screenshot.jpg lol < 1287359556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well prgmr are full < 1287359556 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :210| I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense. < 1287359558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they usually are < 1287359561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1287359563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here comes the output < 1287359564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly < 1287359567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287359574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When they run out of letters for Ubuntu codenames and don't want to repeat anymore, then they will use letters from other language and make it up themself < 1287359577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh no wait < 1287359579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We added 3 new servers so far this month, and have gotten through the waiting list. Ordering is open for now and more parts are on order. we will try our best to keep up with demand. Right now, there is a 24 hour backlog to do provisioning." < 1287359586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no they won't, they'll just start from the first letter or change the name < 1287359592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's a decade or two before that will happen. < 1287359605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:53:24 up 19 days, 4:29, 0 users, load average: 10.93, 11.53, 8.53 < 1287359611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/Wajig_Overview.html really? < 1287359617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a frontend to apt and stuff. < 1287359618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it says how it works but not what it is < 1287359626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package management and shit. < 1287359630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, nothing wrong with apt-get and aptitude < 1287359632 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@166.199.78.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287359643 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power outage yay! < 1287359644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of the commands look useful < 1287359646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (apt-get because aptitude source won't work, while apt-get source will!) < 1287359647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installrs for instance < 1287359657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no aptitude in latest ubuntu :) < 1287359659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to install it yourself < 1287359669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's to save ~megabytes~ on disc so they can put shitty applications there instead) < 1287359671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why on earth < 1287359675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's to save ~megabytes~ on disc so they can put shitty applications there instead) < 1287359679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it saves like 13 MiB < 1287359679 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :245| elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. < 1287359683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it arrived same second :P < 1287359692 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287359701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: prgmr supports netbsd which is cool CAN YOU TELL I WANT TO USE NETBSD < 1287359702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but apt-get is still there? < 1287359723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uptime < 1287359725 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:24 up 19 days, 4:31, 0 users, load average: 6.87, 10.18, 8.43 < 1287359730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287359739 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287359741 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287359832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1287359841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to make commands in TeX for modifying the eqtb[] and various other things directly, so that you can write \the\equiv\basethe\catcode0 < 1287359889 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also \dvibinary to send arbitrary binary data into the DVI file, and trick the page position