00:47:18 what are the ways that have changed 00:47:25 oho 00:47:29 a disagreement between devs and the company 00:47:52 drama drama! 00:48:02 involving companies in free OSes is always a bad idea i think. 00:48:07 fuckin' suits 00:48:14 fuckin' crampin' our style 00:48:23 catseye: oh shaddup it's true 00:48:37 also: fuckin' rainbows! 00:48:37 unless you were being serious 00:49:00 elliott: neither serious nor in jest really 00:49:18 it is true 00:49:18 Fuckin' rainbows, how do they work? 00:49:20 Though he is having sex with rainbows. 00:49:25 Wait... no. 00:50:02 "We got a theory" -- Insane Clown Posse, at the beginning 00:50:12 "I HATE SCIENTISTS" -- Insane Clown Posse, near the end, paraphrased 00:50:14 HMMM 00:52:04 it IS true, but if you want to get *paid* for doing foss? guess what 00:52:13 you must interface with the economy 00:52:19 and the economy is FUCKED 00:52:44 catseye: fuck getting paid :D 00:52:54 elliott: exactly 00:55:04 anyway i liked that quote about the ibex 00:55:10 Theory aigj: ao. 00:55:12 catseye: Yes. 00:57:14 Phantom_Hoover | GreaseMonkey, OK, so not being able to accurately store £0.10 is a tolerable error? 00:57:33 if you are a large corporation with a valuation in the millions -- yes, totally. 00:57:45 who gives a fuck about a few pence 00:57:56 or whatever you call those things after decimalisation 00:58:02 i think they're still pence... 00:58:34 Peter Gibbons: [Explaining the plan] Alright so when the sub routine compounds the interest is uses all these extra decimal places that just get rounded off. So we simplified the whole thing, we rounded them all down, drop the remainder into an account we opened. 00:58:34 Joanna: [Confused] So you're stealing? 00:58:34 Peter Gibbons: Ah no, you don't understand. It's very complicated. It's uh it's aggregate, so I'm talking about fractions of a penny here. And over time they add up to a lot. 00:58:48 catseye: Yes, they are still pence. 00:58:51 Joanna: Oh okay. So you're gonna be making a lot of money, right? 00:58:52 Peter Gibbons: Yeah. 00:58:52 Joanna: Right. It's not yours? 00:58:52 Peter Gibbons: Well it becomes ours. 00:58:52 Joanna: How is that not stealing? 00:58:53 Peter Gibbons: [pauses] I don't think I'm explaining this very well. 00:58:54 Joanna: Okay. 00:58:56 Peter Gibbons: Um... the 7-11. You take a penny from the tray, right? 00:58:58 Joanna: From the cripple children? 00:59:00 Peter Gibbons: No that's the jar. I'm talking about the tray. You know the pennies that are for everybody? 00:59:04 Joanna: Oh for everybody. Okay. 00:59:06 Peter Gibbons: Well those are whole pennies, right? I'm just talking about fractions of a penny here. But we do it from a much bigger tray and we do it a couple a million times. 00:59:09 s/ +$// 01:00:27 I wonder if catseye has actually seen Office Space. 01:01:52 CLEARLY NOT 01:02:13 elliott: I have but it was a long time ago. 01:02:30 catseye: Yes, all those 11 -- almost 12 -- years ago, in 1999. 01:02:35 [catseye feels UNSPEAKABLY OLD] 01:04:15 also, if you are a large corporation: none of the developers you hire will be able to understand why you would not store currency in a float anyway. If you are lucky they will "understand" why it should be a double. 01:04:33 catseye: dude, this place is a sanctuary. no talking about corporate development 01:04:37 :| 01:04:41 not even hating on it? 01:04:51 well okay but not all the time 01:04:57 otherwise we'll just get #corporate-dev-sucks :P 01:05:06 okay 01:05:41 anyhoo 01:05:45 i'm going in... a minute 01:07:10 i got nothing. so don't let me stop you 01:07:15 g'night 01:07:18 :) 01:07:27 pikhq: You. Figure out a way to get a RAM-based filesystem to run a system from into RAM quickly. 01:07:31 Like "seconds" quickly. 01:07:31 kthx 01:07:32 :P 01:07:56 I think "John Freeman turned on off the computer" would make an awesome quit message. 01:08:00 Hey, I did have something! 01:08:15 catseye: But... but I thought it was stupid! :p 01:08:26 stupid and entertaining! 01:08:27 Anyway it can't beat DEMOCRATIC PEER-REVIEW-BASED IRC DISCONNECTION. 01:08:34 tru 01:09:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:20 As demonstrated above. 01:09:48 Gregor: No, as demonstrated by this! 01:09:56 (As a last final note, I ought to watch Idiocracy sometime.) 01:09:59 Gregor: BEHOLD: 01:10:03 (Goodnight. Bye.) 01:10:04 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review). 01:11:12 -!- dbc has joined. 01:16:34 Gnome desktop. 01:16:37 Trashcan. 01:16:39 Where? 01:22:33 -!- catseye has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6). 01:26:23 -!- catseye has joined. 01:32:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:27 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:26 adobe_acrobat_reader is a product that is a kind of map 01:53:32 president_elect is a U.S. person 01:54:02 Whoops, copied the wrong one, that one is true X-P 01:54:07 shanghai is the capital city of the country china 01:54:15 outdoor_air is a weather phenomenon 01:54:20 (Is that true, or just nonsense?) 01:54:58 outdoor_air is a weather phenomenon 01:55:07 john is a musician who is part of ben_folds 01:55:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:55:36 microsoft_sql_server is a consumer electronic device 01:56:22 envelope_llc_intelligent_nutrients is an office supply 01:56:30 barack is a politician who holds the office of secretary 01:58:22 "intelligent nutrients" 01:58:35 i like that 02:13:35 -!- augur has joined. 02:18:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:19:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:19:43 Hey eso 02:27:10 hey Quadlex 02:28:06 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:28:37 How're we going? 02:28:45 I'm about to call a loan shark about a job they are offering 02:30:56 We are all going all over 02:31:43 I almost took a job at a usurer last year :) 02:32:24 -!- augur has joined. 02:34:55 An usurer? 02:35:32 Fancy word for loan shark. 02:36:24 Ah 02:36:28 This is a software job 02:36:32 And they actually seem really cool 02:36:34 Which is weird 02:36:38 http://www.cashdoctors.com.au 02:38:59 My offer was kind of like that, too... programmers had their own offices, the pay was good, etc. 02:39:21 I ended up going to a different place because their health insurance was kind of crap, though. 02:39:39 their what? 02:39:43 Health what? 02:39:50 Quadlex: Australian! :) 02:39:59 Oh right, I remember now 02:40:07 We're socialist nazi commies 02:40:08 I'm from Canada originally, but in this awful place called the United States right nw... 02:40:11 *now 02:44:10 [unexpected log event :(] 04:46:56 So far, I've got to say Debian is less of a complete and utter pain than Gentoo. 04:47:55 Why does GTK+ hate me using my trackpad to scroll? 04:48:45 ... And seems to perform better. 04:49:01 From inside of a VM. 04:53:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:53:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:59:20 fungot: HEY 04:59:32 fungot: YOU APPEAR TO HAVE DIEDED 04:59:54 fizzie: FUNGOT HAS APPEARED TO HAVE DIEDEDED 05:05:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:07:47 * Sgeo allows Symantec to downgrade his beautiful new computer :( 05:13:07 calamari: Well, you only have two ears. With some physical simulation, should be totally feasible. 05:13:27 calamari: Reminds me of that barbershop recording ... 05:16:08 AAAARGH Debian (and clones) has one major, major breaker for me. Multiarch support is not quite finished. 05:17:03 calamari: Mplayer's "hrtf" plugin does that. 05:17:10 Yeah, multiarch sucks arse on Debian. 05:17:18 (abbreviation of "head-related transfer function", the method it uses for that) 05:17:20 I actually have a debootstrap-generated i386 chroot. 05:17:38 Gregor: Apparently they fell *just* short of getting multiarch into squeeze. 05:18:00 And here I thought it had the best chance of having decent multiarch. 05:18:02 God. 05:18:14 Why is Gentoo's multiarch support *still* the only thing that even halfway works? 05:18:20 sid doesn't have useful multiarch. 05:18:28 pikhq: Because multiarch is (relatively) easy when you build everything. 05:18:40 Gregor: Except it's not even doing that. 05:18:50 Gregor: It's... Just got a handful of tarballs of x86_32 libraries. 05:19:07 Uhhh, that != multiarch support :P 05:19:10 Even Debian has that. 05:19:17 Presumably Gentoo can build 32-bit libraries on x86_64? 05:19:31 Yeah, but it only does so for libc, IIRC. 05:20:10 The thing is, it also has packages for 32-bit only programs. Said programs on x86_64 depend on the tarballs instead of the actual libraries. 05:20:19 It's a damned hack, but *it fucking works*. 05:20:48 Debian has everything up to GTK+ for x86_32 on x86_64 05:20:53 (But that's it) 05:21:15 Yeah, Gentoo's got... Basically all the dependencies for programs without x86_64 versions. 05:21:18 Plus apparently it has an installable x86_32 Java for some unimaginable reason. 05:21:41 * Sgeo is using a Toshiba Satellite T215 05:21:42 There's no official x86_64 Java binaries. 05:21:53 Builds just fine, though. 05:22:00 Ohhhhh, yeah, these are the sun packages, yeah. 05:22:07 Oh, it's not considered a netbook 05:22:16 I of course have OpenJDK :P 05:22:30 -!- augur has joined. 05:22:50 Well, yeah. It's just a bit less of a pain to deal with. 05:23:30 I hate to say it, but Mandriva has great multiarch support :P 05:24:04 I have seen the dark side of its multiarch support. 05:24:06 *shudder* 05:24:31 RPM has far far too many limitations. 05:24:40 Oh, RPM is garbagesauce on rye. 05:24:42 ATI Integrated Radeon stuff > Intel integrated? 05:24:55 Sgeo: Hard to imagine it wouldn't be. 05:25:02 Sgeo: Unless you want it to work on Linux. 05:25:13 Sgeo: Unless power usage is your consideration, yes. 05:25:24 Ok 05:25:34 Now, why does SL hate this thing? 05:25:34 Gregor: Official drivers should just work, the X11 drivers should just have somewhat shitty OpenGL performance. 05:25:46 pikhq: That's what I mean by "work" :P 05:25:59 I'm not convinced that ATI+Linux will even outperform Intel+Linux. 05:25:59 Gregor: No, I mean, the ones that are *built into X11*. 05:26:14 Figured out how to stop XChat from minimizing to tray 05:26:28 Still... 05:26:44 * Gregor continues to munch on infant bones while watching the conversation unfold. 05:26:52 Nvidia+Linux is definitely better than ATI+Linux, performance-wise. 05:27:25 * Sgeo tries SL on lowest settings 05:30:44 * Sgeo angrily blibbers at the "32-bit only" thing in SL's requirements 05:32:15 You can fix that by building it. 05:33:37 oh, talking 05:38:05 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Orchestra_layout.svg This orchestra layout lists both "double basses" and "contrebasses". ... fail. 05:38:07 -!- antivigilante has joined. 05:44:54 eicar time 05:45:42 That worked well 05:46:09 Gregor: there should also be separate sections for baritones and euphoniums 05:46:24 catseye: Considering that the arrangement is almost entirely wrong, it's sort of irrelevant. 05:46:26 (baritone horn, of course) 05:47:10 Not that those ever get into an orchestra. 05:47:24 Muahahahaha 05:47:27 Screw your euphonium :P 05:51:55 Gregor: Perhaps there should be a seating arrangement for the coronets. 05:53:37 *cornet 05:53:47 whoosh 05:54:00 Good night. 05:54:10 I could go a cornetto 06:09:35 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:14:56 -!- realazthat has joined. 06:34:48 goddamn ubuntu 06:34:53 can you do an upgrade without breaking my sound? 06:37:08 VLC comes with FluidSynth stuff? 06:37:10 No 06:37:12 I can just use a soundfont? 06:37:16 No sound for you 06:37:34 Real Ubuntu users are happy with brown wallpaper and silence 06:37:35 And unicorns will take flight? 06:38:09 Unicorns don't need to fly to get around 06:38:12 They're just THERE 06:38:25 Like Omnipresent Man! 06:38:49 Yeah, he's Omnipresent, but does the bastard ever do anything? 06:38:56 No, he's too busy with his hand on his dick 06:47:02 -!- antivigilante has joined. 06:48:01 So, looking at seeing if/how Debian's made an abomination of things, being seduced by Slackware, aaand... I think I'll try random things from there. <-- arch is pretty good IMO 06:50:11 Nvidia+Linux is definitely better than ATI+Linux, performance-wise. <-- last I checked, also stability-wise. 06:50:15 that was a while ago though 06:50:27 though intel graphics is probably most stable 06:50:36 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:50:36 worst when it comes to performance though 06:51:05 -!- quintopia has joined. 06:52:54 can you do an upgrade without breaking my sound? <-- that is why you stay on LTS if using ubuntu 06:56:06 -!- antivigilante_ has joined. 06:56:28 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:56:47 -!- antivigilante_ has changed nick to antivigilante. 06:58:53 Vorpal: you've got some borogrove on your face 06:59:55 * Vorpal snicker-snack! 07:00:32 Quadlex, new here, nick-changer, previously idler or just someone who been away for some time? 07:02:13 meh, don't have time to wait for answer, need to leave or I'll miss the bus 07:03:12 Newish 07:03:59 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:04:43 -!- tombom has joined. 07:12:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:30:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:36:17 pikhq: re: hrtf.. thanks! 07:39:12 Re "brown wallpaper", also, the Meerkat wallpaper is pretty colorful and un-brown. 07:39:56 http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/x34gp6re/wartyfinalubuntu.jpg from a random google-image hit. 07:46:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:48:21 if you don't have a word for purple, that *is* brown 07:49:58 And I guess it's not so dissimilar in color from the not-quite-as-brown Lucid wallpaper -- http://www.kilobitspersecond.com/stuff/warty-final-ubuntu.jpg -- too. 07:50:21 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:50:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:50:55 Karmic and Jaunty were pretty brown though. 07:51:50 (And Intrepid. And Hardy.) 07:58:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug&feature=player_embedded#! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:31 You people keep saying the same thing; that link was posted by alise in 2010-09-28 and nooga in 2010-09-29. And I don't think clog was even down then, so no excuse at all! 08:01:19 Speaking of excuses, was I supposed to do something to fungot? 08:01:19 fizzie: it is. 08:01:26 Apparently not. 08:24:34 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:24:49 ...and xkcd is back to just weird again. 08:29:37 linux aqualung with "metal" skin = awesome 08:29:43 i feel like i'm on a c64 again <3 08:30:00 also, a very good music play0r 09:09:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:41:28 -!- nooga has joined. 10:06:12 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:22:10 -!- jcp has joined. 10:49:17 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:00:11 -!- jcp has joined. 11:30:17 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:49 -!- myndzi has joined. 11:36:23 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:38:40 -!- jcp has joined. 11:45:05 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:51:41 -!- jcp has joined. 12:04:34 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:11:40 -!- jcp has joined. 12:21:40 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:29:11 -!- jcp has joined. 12:36:40 -!- sftp has joined. 13:29:53 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:40:40 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 13:41:20 I just realized something horrible about Flatterland 13:42:36 It promotes the pseudoscientific bullshit involving taking scientific words, interpreting stuff as you please, and thinking it means something 13:43:10 -!- jcp has joined. 13:44:07 I feel no guilt about spoiling this: the last scene involves the protagonist basing arguments for gender equality on Flatland's supersymmetry 13:45:29 "Supersymmetric sister! ..." 13:46:03 I forgot the rest of her advertisement on Flatland's Internet 13:47:04 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:55:11 -!- jcp has joined. 13:58:13 SgeoN1, Speak Not Ill Of Ian Stewart. 13:59:41 I don't want to! 14:01:17 Indeed, And Thou Wert Always At War With Eastasia. 14:03:29 clog sees all, SgeoN1/ 14:03:48 Except when it's broken, of course. 14:04:05 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:04:08 I don't want to criticise the book I loved as a kid, but I must! 14:04:37 Just like Friend Computer! Friend Computer never breaHSUDJEHDHDHDHHHU 14:04:57 Note: do not confuse Ian and Iain Stewart. 14:05:01 *beep* 14:05:25 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:07:32 What about Calculus the Easy Way? 14:08:32 I can't love books? 14:09:03 *multiple 14:09:13 I remember you pondering why there wasn't a TV Tropes article on it a while ago... 14:09:40 -!- jcp has joined. 14:09:44 And it doesn't seem to have a WP article, implying it's pretty obscure. 14:09:58 When it comes to books, I'm polygamous. Only with languages is it serial monogamy 14:11:38 I thought the easy way to do calculus was from first principles... 14:13:01 Although "easy" there depends entirely on one's point of view. 14:16:00 Going off irc to save battery 14:16:04 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: Bye). 14:17:06 Heh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/11/chilean-miners-rival-churches-tussle 14:53:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:54:25 -!- elliott has joined. 14:55:02 quintopia: A Golly ruleset sounds interesting enough! 14:55:17 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:56:11 17:16:34 Gnome desktop. 14:56:12 17:16:37 Trashcan. 14:56:12 17:16:39 Where? 14:56:14 Bottom right. Panel. 14:56:19 (If using Ubuntu.) 14:56:46 17:53:26 adobe_acrobat_reader is a product that is a kind of map 14:56:48 what are these from? 14:57:39 20:46:56 So far, I've got to say Debian is less of a complete and utter pain than Gentoo. 14:57:45 pikhq: stable, testing, sid? 15:00:43 22:37:34 Real Ubuntu users are happy with brown wallpaper and silence 15:00:47 Year old information fail 15:00:51 It's PURPLE now! 15:01:04 22:48:01 So, looking at seeing if/how Debian's made an abomination of things, being seduced by Slackware, aaand... I think I'll try random things from there. <-- arch is pretty good IMO 15:01:10 -!- jcp has joined. 15:01:15 It really isn't and pikhq is smart enough to have realised that already. 15:12:18 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:14:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:22:41 -!- jcp has joined. 15:29:29 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:32:08 Purple is the new brown, eh? 15:32:48 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:35:19 < ais523> I'm amused at the way he called me a hacker with basically no evidence 15:35:31 wait, he... called you a hacker out of the blue? 15:35:44 bah, no ais523, and clog is probably still wack 15:36:54 cpressey: ais523 has been "collaborating" with esr to get old c-intercal versions together because knuth wants it 15:40:10 -!- jcp has joined. 15:40:18 elliott: yes, i remembered that. but even in that context it's a bit creepy 15:41:29 indeed 15:41:39 and what knuth wants knuth gets 15:44:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:46:17 Grrrrr at glare 15:46:31 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:52:41 -!- jcp has joined. 15:56:17 * Sgeo falls in love with WinSCP 15:58:41 I love croissants. 15:59:17 crossaints love you, too 16:01:24 Urgh, pyFLTK's API is ugly. 16:01:28 fltk.Fl_Window... 16:01:39 wtf's fltk? 16:01:54 The Fast Light ToolKit 16:02:05 And considering that FLTK's API is ugly itself, it's unsurprising that pyFLTK's API is ugly :P 16:03:37 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:03:43 what does it do? 16:04:20 Gregor: Well, it's not that ugly. 16:04:23 It's fine in C++ :P 16:04:52 Gregor: If they just chopped the Fl_ prefixes off, and changed foo.prop(x) to "foo.prop = x" and foo.prop() into foo.prop, it'd be almost perfect. 16:04:59 Change labelsize and the like into label_size and it'd be perfect. 16:05:55 Oh, and making the constructor args be e.g. 16:06:03 Button((110, 130), (100, 35), 'Okay') 16:06:04 rather than 16:06:08 Button(110, 130, 100, 35, 'Okay') 16:06:12 would be a nice finishing touch. 16:09:52 elliott: So, if they changed almost every aspect of the API, it'd be ALMOST perfect : 16:09:54 *:P 16:10:04 Gregor: Well, firstly, those are all *Python* changes. 16:10:12 I wouldn't change the C++ API. 16:10:39 Gregor: A sed one the names, wrapping property-functions as properties -- not hard -- and unpacking a tuple in contructors. 16:10:52 (Then, as a super-optional thing, maybe s/foobar/foo_bar/.) 16:10:55 *on the 16:11:09 Not exactly major API changes, just aesthetics. 16:11:10 -!- jcp has joined. 16:11:18 Gregor: Name something with a nicer API. 16:11:36 * Sgeo attempts to get used to this keyboard 16:14:58 elliott: Like all languages, all APIs suck. 16:15:07 Gregor: Name one that sucks less. 16:15:37 Hell, even STL sucks less. 16:15:47 I don't use enough C++ to make relevant comparisons though :P 16:15:52 And that's suck a ridiculous challenge. 16:15:58 "Name an API that sucks less than " 16:16:03 Yeesh. 16:17:25 Gregor: name a GUI API that sucks less than FLTK 16:18:26 The only GUI APIs I've used are FLTK and GTK+, and GTK+ sure as hell ain't it. 16:18:41 Gregor: Lemme put it this way. 16:18:50 If you think FLTK has a terrible API, you haven't seen every other GUI API. 16:19:03 I never write GUIs. 16:19:06 Because GUIs are for pussies. 16:19:08 Tk's API is better, sure. Hell, so is Shoes', although nobody uses that for serious stuff. 16:19:10 Apart from that. 16:19:12 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 16:20:38 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:20:48 Perl persons: 16:20:55 Are delete and exists magical? 16:28:40 -!- jcp has joined. 16:31:30 Gregor: Now you've got me mocking up half-code of a non-shitty GUI API... 16:31:34 Damn you! 16:31:45 Sgeo: All of Perl is magical! 16:31:59 * Sgeo wonders why, exactly, this thing came with a 64-bit version of Win7 16:32:20 It only has 2gbs, are there any relevant advantages to 64-bit considering that? 16:32:29 curses, you must use curses so that your app works on all terminals. oh you want to colorize your bash prompt? here's some vt100 escape codes, enjoy 16:34:05 Sgeo: actually I have no idea what you mean. Syntactically they're slightly magical, because they take a whole hash ref as argument, but don't evaluate it. Semantically, the hash can be tied, so other things can happen when you delete or exsists. But that is, afaik, all. 16:34:39 * Sgeo meant the syntactical bit 16:34:53 That is, in fact, magic that I can't reproduce in my own functions? 16:35:31 Gregor: http://pastie.org/pastes/1218376/text?key=jzpmwvfrsp1qg51leacw 16:35:39 Gregor: Look, it doesn't suck! 16:35:57 Gregor: (_ is "arrange horizontally", | vertically) 16:37:40 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:38:37 Actually, that switch's canecl should actually be 16:38:41 case $cancel \undo 16:38:42 To undo the selection. 16:41:28 Gregor: Psht, so unappreciative. 16:41:46 Actually it should be case $cancel \cancel to cancel whatever event we're handling. 16:41:56 Which implies to me that $cancel should have a default action of cancelling. 16:42:07 Making the case perhaps unnecessary. 16:42:08 But whatever. 16:42:26 cpressey: http://pastie.org/pastes/1218391/text?key=p2lt6cdvyvt1bgy7u9pj2q 16:42:28 cpressey: ADMIRE 16:44:11 -!- jcp has joined. 16:47:23 Sgeo: Not by any way I'm aware of, but my awareness essentially ends around 5.6 -- after that it's all a blur 16:47:31 cpressey: http://pastie.org/pastes/1218391/text?key=p2lt6cdvyvt1bgy7u9pj2q 16:47:31 cpressey: ADMIRE 16:47:33 :| 16:47:49 elliott: attack of the mutant yamls. 16:47:59 cpressey: 'TIS NOT YAML 16:48:04 cpressey: 'TIS GOOEY 16:48:16 cpressey: As I said, _ means horizontal arrangement, and | means vertical 16:48:19 The rest is somewhat obvious 16:48:32 modified: [text contents != pages .(page_list selected) text] 16:48:32 page_text: [pages .(page_list selected) text] 16:48:34 this needs changing to 16:48:41 page_text: [pages .(page_list selected) text] 16:48:42 modified: [text contents != page_text] 16:48:45 in fact 16:48:47 * elliott tweaks a bit 16:49:32 http://pastie.org/pastes/1218407/text?key=rvfz2k1dho97nel635zhg 16:49:34 There. 16:54:51 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:55:23 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:00:19 cpressey does not even acknowledge my design POWAH 17:02:41 -!- jcp has joined. 17:03:32 Moop 17:03:46 NOR DOES GREGOR 17:04:00 http://pastie.org/pastes/1218407/text?key=rvfz2k1dho97nel635zhg You made me do this, it's *your* responsibility to comment! 17:04:46 *yawn* 17:05:03 SCOUNDREL 17:07:21 Wirth's law: "Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster." 17:07:43 Heh, didn't realise anyone had called it "Wirth's law" before. 17:08:15 "Wirth attributed the saying to Martin Reiser" -- thus continuing to fulfil -- what's that law's name again? 17:08:25 Where things are never attributed to the first person to think of them, instead the second. 17:10:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:11:56 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:12:27 How bookendy. 17:13:50 what 17:14:03 Phantom_Hoover: can you link me to that site that has a shitload of spaceships catalogued in various rules? 17:14:09 and it tells you which are inverses of others, etc. 17:14:11 blue backrgound 17:14:12 *background 17:14:49 elliott, it's one of Golly's external thingies IIRC. 17:15:00 Phantom_Hoover: it's not affiliated with golly 17:15:17 Yeah, but Golly can still look at it 17:15:32 aha 17:15:33 you're right though 17:15:34 http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/ 17:16:03 It has 3 more gliders for Day & Night than for Life. 17:16:04 O.o 17:16:21 Phantom_Hoover: the inverted versions, presumably 17:16:23 or something 17:16:47 Even then, there are definitely more than 40 spaceships in Life, 17:17:09 And it's not that dated, either: it has the Caterpillar in it. 17:17:47 Damn these Golly developers! 17:18:33 Would it be that hard to replace give_obnoxious_warning_about_not_being_able_to_do_something_while_generating(); with stop(); do_thing();? 17:18:54 golly's ui is terrible 17:19:31 It's... tolerable, if you zoom out when using Quicklife. 17:19:41 -!- jcp has joined. 17:19:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:21:24 its editing is so limitedly-designed as to be useless 17:21:46 simple operations like clearing a 50,000 x 50,000 square somehow take ten minutes 17:22:04 okay so maybe that's more reasonable :) 17:22:05 but still 17:22:08 most of it was empty! 17:22:15 the controls are blergh 17:22:18 you can't save colours per-pattern 17:22:19 dfjgodfjsiojh 17:22:20 it sucks 17:22:46 Gregor: Wow. Tiny Core Linux has a KDE package. 17:22:57 Tiny Core is awesome :) 17:22:57 Gregor: Never has KDE been in a less appropriate setting X-D 17:22:58 Well, clearing a square is going to take a long time unless you're clever about it. 17:23:08 "I totally want a ten megabyte micro-distro... with KDE 4." 17:23:11 It's Tiny CORE Linux, not Tiny EVERYTHING Linux 17:24:07 Tiny Core may be cool but it's not as cool as KITTEN 17:25:34 Existing is so uncool. 17:25:59 -!- augur has joined. 17:27:36 `quote 17:28:06 155| Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing 17:28:24 `quote 17:28:27 215| Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible) 17:28:56 `quote 17:28:59 127| Discrimination fields ACTIVATE. 17:29:01 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:29:03 `quote 17:29:07 63| The thing is just to exist 17:29:13 `quote 17:29:16 `quote 17:29:17 126| Ah, vulva. What is that, anyway? 17:29:18 `quote 17:29:21 98| ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" 17:29:21 `quote 17:29:24 42| after all, what are DVD players for? 17:29:27 19| "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom 17:29:31 `quote 17:29:34 2| I used computational linguistics to kill her. 17:30:06 `quote 17:30:09 77| no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 17:30:30 `quote 17:30:33 6| I think the freemasons are actually a cover for homosexual men. 17:31:25 `quote 17:31:26 `quote 17:31:34 88| both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? 17:31:37 128| I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 17:31:39 Phantom_Hoover: http://pastie.org/pastes/1218391/text?key=p2lt6cdvyvt1bgy7u9pj2q BEHOLD (because nobody else will) 17:31:44 whoops wait 17:31:46 that's an older one 17:32:04 Phantom_Hoover: http://pastie.org/pastes/1218501/text?key=kgj5a2hgnlvgoqqntjkg 17:32:06 BEHOLD 17:32:07 elliott, what's it for? 17:32:10 http://pastie.org/pastes/1218501/text?key=kgj5a2hgnlvgoqqntjkg 17:32:11 that one 17:32:21 Phantom_Hoover: I complained about pyFLTK's API, Gregor complained about FLTK's API 17:32:22 Also, is that Smalltalk? 17:32:25 I noted that all GUI libs sucked 17:32:30 I wrote my own fakecode for something that sucked a bit less 17:32:32 No it isn't 17:32:39 And the previous one sucks, only look at the latest one 17:32:40 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 17:32:46 Phantom_Hoover: what? 17:32:48 Wait... 17:32:50 At 5:32 PM? 17:32:51 No, stuff 17:33:00 Phantom_Hoover: You know 17:33:06 "-> stuff" 17:33:08 is a lame way of saying 17:33:11 bbl :P 17:36:38 fungot: are you still broken? 17:36:38 cpressey: riastradh oh, indeed. i'd prefer to just call fnord or whatever.) 17:37:40 -!- jcp has joined. 17:41:11 Gregor: UNFORTUNATELY KDE4-DESKTOP.TCZ DOESN'T INSTALL. 17:41:15 "Error on hunspell.tcz" 17:41:21 Should have gone with attilaspell.tcz 17:43:09 Hooplah 17:43:15 elliott: Only Atilla can install it. 17:43:31 Gregor: Totally preempted you there. 17:43:54 Foobar. 17:44:15 IT MIGHT BE WORKING THIS TIME 17:46:07 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:48:13 -!- flippo has joined. 17:48:49 elliott, what distro is that? 17:50:06 Vorpal: "I see no reason to listen to you"r questions. 17:50:41 -!- jcp has joined. 17:51:13 mhm 17:51:29 elliott, fair enough 17:53:19 select the function you want to call from the dropdown 17:53:26 ... 17:53:27 DO IT 17:54:03 cpressey: Sounds like Excel. 17:54:48 -!- flippo has quit (Changing host). 17:54:48 -!- flippo has joined. 17:59:49 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 18:09:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:14:33 someone just told me that i'm Roy from IT Crowd 18:14:59 actually i heard it twice 18:15:06 from my boss and from my date 18:15:06 ;f 18:15:28 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:00 -!- tombom has joined. 18:24:11 -!- jcp has joined. 18:26:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:28:22 Gregor: you're right gui development sucks 18:34:14 sucks 18:36:27 elliott, not giving me credit for saying that several times before? Oh well *shrug* 18:37:06 Vorpal: You can't do GUI development because of some sort of cognitive deformity. I was merely referring to the current crop of *common* toolkits. 18:37:14 There are a few I like, but they are mostly dead projects. 18:37:14 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:38:00 And please either start ignoring me entirely, or talk in more than passive-aggressive slights. 18:41:18 -!- augur has joined. 18:41:36 hi augur 18:42:00 hello elliot 18:42:32 TWO FUCKING TS 18:42:41 -!- jcp has joined. 18:43:49 why 18:43:55 elliot sound okay to me 18:44:16 what's the difference between t and tt anyway? 18:48:07 okay, nougart 18:48:14 *nougat 18:48:28 (OK, so it's not pronounced identically, but my point is made.) 18:54:24 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:55:41 Vorpal: You can't do GUI development because of some sort of cognitive deformity. I was merely referring to the current crop of *common* toolkits. <-- hm, no, I never claimed I wasn't able to do it at all in theory 18:55:55 I said I disliked it, and implicitly referred to any GUI toolkits I used 18:56:44 And please either start ignoring me entirely, or talk in more than passive-aggressive slights. <-- do you know what "the golden rule" means? 18:57:20 I am perfectly willing to not talk to you if you stop highlighting me with questions that ask for a response. 18:57:50 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 18:57:53 elliott: fi:aita = en:fence, fi:aitta = en:granary/storehouse/whatever. We have these delightful meaning-changes when it comes to "t"/"tt". 18:58:01 elliott, I have nothing against talking to you in general. 18:58:04 elliott, /msg? 19:00:57 Korean also pronounces t/tt (and d/dd) differently. 19:01:02 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:01:19 -!- cpressey_ has changed nick to cpressey. 19:01:44 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:03:17 cpressey: Also, I didn't notice anything wrong with fungot; maybe you just hit the "I will only answer to the same guy four or so times in a row" limit? 19:03:17 fizzie: then ask for more time to demi, irc-galleria, pouet, deviantart, newsgroups etc. it would be more fun 19:03:19 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 19:03:40 -!- jcp has joined. 19:04:18 fizzie, does the t/tt thing change the quality of the t or the letter before it (the latter would be like in Swedish) 19:05:18 fizzie: that must be it. 19:08:29 Vorpal: I think officially what it changes is the length of the silent part in /t/. It doesn't (much) change the neighbouring letters; Finnish has, or at least is approximated reasonably well by a simple mapping from text to phonemes. 19:08:47 fizzie, ah 19:09:08 hm what do you mean with silent part though 19:09:52 The stop in it. 19:10:00 Record something with a t and take a look if you want. 19:10:58 ah 19:11:27 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:12:05 "In the articulation of the stop, three phases can be distinguished: 19:12:06 * Catch: The airway closes so that no air can escape through the mouth (hence the name stop). With nasal stops, the air escapes through the nose. 19:12:06 * Hold or occlusion: The airway stays closed, causing a pressure difference to build up (hence the name occlusive). 19:12:06 * Release or burst: The closure is opened. In the case of plosives, the released airflow produces a sudden impulse causing an audible sound (hence the name plosive)." 19:12:09 The middle part, then. 19:12:21 of course, double consonants can change a lot in Swedish too, but in that case it changes the quality of the preceding vowel. Like sil (en:sieve) and sill (a kind of fish, seems like I forgot what that one is called in English) 19:13:28 Grr, I hate it when TLDs and language codes don't match. 19:13:35 se.wikipedia.org is not Swedish. 19:14:49 The 'sv' code is a bit annoying; I remember not noticing it when looking at a suitable keymap in NetBSD, since it only listed them by language code. (There wasn't one for fi, but sv is usable enough.) 19:15:25 elliott, yes I agree it is annoying 19:15:26 It would be nice to have a translate thing here that uses interwiki. 19:15:29 e.g. 19:15:43 `tr sv sill 19:15:46 elliott, I always have to think if I want se or sv when I select keymap on a livecd 19:15:48 Atlantic herring 19:15:52 `tr sv sill no 19:16:02 Whoops no article lol 19:16:06 elliott, herring sounds about right 19:16:09 `tr sv sill nn 19:16:22 ERROR REFUSE TO SHOW NYNORK BECAUSE AM BIGOT BOT 19:16:30 nynork, what a spelling error 19:16:31 elliott, what really? :D 19:16:43 `which tr 19:16:47 haven't made it yet! 19:16:48 plan to though 19:16:52 /usr/bin/tr 19:16:52 Nynork sounds like some sort of a D&D monster. 19:16:53 interestingly, the Swedish wiki links to the Nynorsk article for herring 19:16:55 elliott, oh 19:17:02 tr has been borkleborked for a while. 19:17:02 IIRC 19:17:03 fizzie, indeed! 19:17:05 and that one links to the Bokm\oal one 19:17:06 Erm 19:17:11 IGNORE MY PAST THREE LINES. 19:17:15 but 19:17:21 the Swedish one doesn't link to the bokmal one directly 19:17:29 elliott, wait, tr is a bit bad name for it 19:17:30 as in 19:17:31 Which is just odd. 19:17:34 Vorpal: Yes yes, I didn't think. 19:17:43 Instead ponder why interwiki is silly. 19:17:56 What kind of interwiki doesn't catch second-level interwikis? 19:17:59 elliott, trans or something like that might work (unless that is taken too, in which case I guess I didn't think) 19:18:02 (i.e. "this listed interwiki links to this other interwiki") 19:18:09 [think that is was] that is ;) 19:18:12 Vorpal: maybe "iw" for interwiki 19:18:55 elliott, iw says here: "Usage: iw [options] command" but then I wouldn't expect it on a server, since it deals with 802.11 stuff 19:19:11 It goes in ~/bin, so who cares. 19:19:16 true 19:19:30 elliott, tr is the kind of thing shell scripts in ~/bin might use 19:19:38 but yeah, iw would work very well 19:19:43 Nynork nynork, it's a helluva town 19:19:58 "" fuck you i want the whole query 19:19:58 cpressey thinks the way i do, apparently 19:20:18 * quintopia high fives 19:20:24 nynork? 19:20:41 -!- jcp has joined. 19:20:48 olsner: I actually meant nynorsk 19:21:05 when you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits? 19:22:39 http://redhatinbluesea.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/j4lup.jpeg 19:23:25 Vorpal: Or even "interwiki" + "translate" = intertrans! The most vague thing ever. 19:23:35 Except having connotations of an intersexed, transgender person. 19:23:42 elliott, true, a bit tedious to type though 19:23:43 Or wikilate. 19:23:58 I mean, there are some virtues in a short name 19:24:01 "11 am? I'm afraid you're wikilate. You're wikifired." 19:24:07 hah 19:24:13 *wikiam 19:24:32 Vorpal: So do you have an wl(1)? 19:24:43 "wikileven wikiam? WikI'm wikfraid wiki're wikilate. Wiki're wikifired." 19:24:53 Bork bork bork 19:24:59 elliott, not on any turned on computer at least 19:25:21 elliott, that jpg (err, jpeg actually, how unusual), is it supposed to be on top of a communion bread? 19:25:33 it kind of looks a bit like that 19:25:34 No. 19:25:39 It's Putin on the ... 19:25:47 elliott, yes it is obviously Putin :P 19:25:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puttin'_on_the_Ritz 19:25:54 putin on the ritz? 19:26:02 that is SOOOOO funny 19:26:02 olsner: yes 19:26:10 So funny it has a capital SOOOOO? 19:26:12 augh 19:26:22 :D 19:26:26 yes, THAAAAAT funny 19:28:37 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:28:43 Gregor: HackEgo totally needs a way to take quoted arguments. 19:28:53 By which I mean "please, god, don't make me feed every call through sh". 19:29:08 Actually you can just use _. 19:29:09 But still. 19:29:37 elliott, the `run thingy isn't that irritating IMO. Just 4 letters more 19:29:53 Yes, but still. 19:29:59 but sure, it would be nice to avoid it 19:30:43 elliott, still, there are more annoying things, like !haskell doing ghci then ghc, and not reporting any errors for some cases 19:30:52 (instead just failing silently) 19:31:06 Gregor: Wait, does HackEgo have network? 19:31:20 elliott, I seem to remember he used the owner netfilter match 19:31:23 to check for uid 19:31:32 to block it for all but a handful of things 19:31:35 Gregor: tl;dr I need *.wikipedia.org access. 19:32:19 elliott, that is, he was considering how to solve the network issue then I mentioned the owner match and he concluded it fitted perfectly, so unless he changed I presume he still uses that 19:32:43 Mhm. 19:33:10 hm I just noticed how silly "so unless he changed I presume he still uses that" actually is if you read what it actually means 19:33:34 elliott: It has an http proxy, I can give extra access on request. Wikipedia seems reasonable, one sec.' 19:33:45 Gregor: I need all language codes, mind :P 19:33:54 (of course he might not be, in which case he isn't, and then doesn't use that) 19:33:58 Can I just access normally or do I need to write my program for the proxy? 19:34:02 okay, that was a bit too extreme to match zzo 19:34:14 elliott: It needs to be proxy-aware. 19:34:26 elliott: If you're writing something using e.g. wget to do requests, then you're fine. 19:34:29 Gregor: Fucking fuckshit fuck you okay how do I do it? 19:34:33 I don't, I use urllib2 :P 19:34:42 Gregor: Is it SOCKS or something horrible? 19:34:50 It's a standard HTTP proxy. 19:34:51 elliott, that's python isn't it (urllib2 I mean)? 19:34:53 It can't be SOCKS. 19:34:56 Vorpal: Yes. 19:35:10 elliott, why the 2, I never seem to remember seeing any urllib 19:35:18 There is a urllib. 19:35:21 urllib2 uses it internally. 19:35:24 oh 19:35:26 In Python 3 it's a saner name. 19:35:31 ah 19:35:39 class urllib2.ProxyHandler([proxies]) 19:35:40 Cause requests to go through a proxy. If proxies is given, it must be a dictionary mapping protocol names to URLs of proxies. The default is to read the list of proxies from the environment variables . If no proxy environment variables are set, in a Windows environment, proxy settings are obtained from the registry’s Internet Settings section and in a Mac OS X environment, proxy information is retrie 19:35:40 ved from the OS X System Configuration Framework. 19:35:52 Gregor: What's the URoLogy? 19:35:58 By which I mean URL. 19:36:04 It's in $http_proxy 19:36:04 elliott, well that is only to be expected, they did use the opportunity of python 3 breaking things anyway to clear up some weirdness 19:36:36 `run echo $http_proxy 19:36:40 hm 19:36:44 Gregor: OR IS IT 19:36:47 `help 19:36:51 `run echo $HTTP_PROXY FUCK YEAH 19:36:52 err 19:36:55 http://127.0.0.1:3128 19:36:56 FUCK YEAH 19:36:56 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:37:01 ah just slow 19:37:18 Gregor: Why couldn't you just IP firewall it ;__ 19:37:21 *;__; 19:37:26 elliott, he is doing that as well 19:37:41 -!- jcp has joined. 19:37:41 Gregor, you still use the owner match I presume? 19:38:42 Gregor: "The default is to read the list of proxies from the environment variables" 19:38:45 You should totally set that propertly 19:38:55 *variables." (it's " ." in the source text but I'm sure that's a mistake.) 19:38:59 *properly. 19:41:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:41:32 elliott: I was testing Testing. 19:41:37 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 19:41:41 pikhq: Testing? Testing testing? 19:41:55 elliott: Apparently Sid isn't going to get multiarch support until Squeeze is made stable. 19:41:59 Testing testing testing? ("Testing to see if you want to test testing") 19:42:03 pikhq: KITTEN 19:42:09 MULTIARCH UP THE ANUS^WWAZOO 19:42:14 Someone should write unit tests for the unit tests of the unit testing framework 19:42:25 So, basically, until then, Debian will suck more than Gentoo on amd64, regardless. 19:42:34 pikhq, multiarch as in proper lib32? 19:42:40 elliott: So, how *is* Kitten going to handle multiple ABIs? 19:42:42 that would be so awesome 19:42:44 Vorpal: Yes. 19:43:17 Vorpal: Gentoo kinda sucks at it and has it very hacky.. (tarballs of libraries) Debian has that, but less comprehensive. 19:43:21 pikhq: # pkg ins libc --arch=x86 19:43:28 pikhq: # pkg ins libc --arch=x86-64 19:43:33 pikhq: # pkg ins libc --arch=arm 19:43:38 elliott: And the filesystem layout? 19:43:39 pikhq, most distros I know of has it very hacky 19:43:46 Vorpal: Quite true. 19:43:59 elliott: Per-ABI bin/lib/... dirs? 19:44:04 pikhq, correction: all distros, except arch recently made it somewhat more sane 19:44:05 pikhq: I'm open to suggestions on that. Probably something like /lib32, /lib64, /libarm. 19:44:20 pikhq: Or, perhaps even: root is your native architecture, beyond that it's /arch/... 19:44:21 So 19:44:25 /lib/libc.a 19:44:33 /x86/lib/libc.a 19:44:37 But really, I'm open to suggestions. 19:44:46 elliott: Make it the actual ABI tuple. 19:44:55 pikhq: Sure. 19:45:02 pikhq, arch still doesn't provide a complete set of 32-bit packages on 64-bit, but the repo and package layouts is quite a bit saner than in gentoo (one package matches one package, not one package matches a bunch of loosely related packages) 19:45:03 pikhq: I might hide it away in an /arch/ directory to avoid the ugly. 19:45:09 Sorry, had an ad-hoc meeting. 19:45:14 Wait, does NetBSD have ABI tuples? 19:45:26 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:45:30 It's an autotools convention that's gotten spread elsewhere. 19:45:36 Right. 19:45:51 it is one of the few sane things coming from autotools 19:45:52 pikhq: I'm not sure what the OS part of Kitten's would be though. 19:46:01 *-netbsd-...what? 19:46:34 And it'd probably be best to have the same filesystem layout regardless of what the native ABI is; some packages hardcode paths in, and it's easier to not have to patch that. 19:46:43 elliott, *-netbsd- 19:46:54 bsd userland? I presume you wouldn't use gnu userland 19:46:56 Vorpal: *-netbsd-kitten, then. 19:46:59 Well, maybe. 19:47:06 I might use newlib libc with BSD coreutils. Who knows? 19:47:09 elliott: The convention is that the last bit is based on the libc. 19:47:25 elliott, then *-netbsd-newlib 19:47:40 Vorpal: But what if I change libc?! (Okay, yeah, everything will have to be rebuilt anyway :P) 19:47:46 elliott, exactly :P 19:47:49 For instance, i686-pc-linux-gnu for a "normal" Linux system, but i686-pc-linux-uclibc for a uclibc system. 19:47:59 elliott, except you could now have them side by side when rebuilding! 19:48:07 elliott: If you have the filesystem layout based on the ABI tuple, you could have them both! 19:48:14 elliott: Even if you dynamically link! 19:48:22 pikhq, the pc stuff, none of my systems have it 19:48:25 pikhq: AAAAAAAAAAAAA 19:48:30 Anyway, yes. 19:48:39 As far as I'm concerned there's no reason not just to have an arch option when building packages. 19:48:42 pikhq, wait, actually one does 19:48:53 Easy enough for the package to have arch-specific dependencies, too. 19:48:58 Heh, Wikipedia was already whitelisted :P 19:48:58 `run wget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ -O - 19:49:03 \ \ \ Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia \ 19:49:06 pikhq, one is x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, the other ones are x86_64-linux-gnu 19:49:10 `run wget http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/ -O - | head 19:49:12 \ \ \ Wikipedia, den fria encyklopedin \ 19:49:17 Cool. 19:50:09 elliott, nice coincidence, head getting (most of) 19:50:16 Not most of :P 19:50:21 There's a lot in . 19:50:23 ah 19:51:08 `run curl http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/ | head 19:51:10 Gregor: What's the download-this command again? 19:51:11 No output. 19:51:16 oh no curl I presume 19:51:28 So, it seems Mandriva is the only distro with actual multi-arch support. 19:51:28 elliott, `fetch maybe 19:51:31 Gag. 19:51:35 pikhq: KITTEN 19:51:47 pikhq, mandriva is in all other aspects not a sane choice 19:51:58 Vorpal: Quite right. 19:52:06 sounds pretty neat to have all architectures' packages available and installable 19:52:09 pikhq, also I'm surprised it supports it if other RPM based distros don't 19:52:25 olsner: Well, that's the thing; there isn't one pakage per architecture. 19:52:33 yeah, mostly useful for ones you can run, for cross compiling it is a bit more work 19:52:34 There's "newlib" and if it supports the given architecture, good for you. 19:52:44 elliott, source based distro? 19:52:46 Vorpal: It will treat it all as cross-compilation. 19:52:53 wait, is this source-based? 19:53:00 Just with the knowledge that "gcc -m32" is a valid 32-bit cross-compiler on 64-bit. 19:53:03 elliott, ever done a canadian cross? 19:53:09 Vorpal: olsner: Not source-based. 19:53:18 Although you will be able to build-and-install a package with one command. 19:53:23 If you really want to for some reason. 19:53:31 Vorpal: RPM itself actually has support for multiple ABIs. No other distro *actually uses it*. 19:53:36 elliott, ever done a canadian cross? 19:53:38 No. Thank god. 19:53:39 pikhq, heh 19:53:47 elliott, indeed 19:54:06 Canadian cross = just don't go there. 19:54:26 Basically 32-bit and 64-bit support will just work... I'll have to tell the package manager about cross-compilers for --arch=arm on x86 or something, but that's not so difficult. 19:54:28 elliott, I heard someone cross compiling gdb on OS X to run on linux (the resulting gdb binary that is). Why? Because it had to target debugging OS X. Remote kernel debugging. 19:54:31 cross-compiling a cross-compiler? what's so hard about that? :D 19:54:34 I mean... 19:54:36 and it didn't want to compile on linux 19:54:44 All it has to do is install the relevant cross-compiler. 19:54:51 compared to that, a canadian cross seems like a stroll in the park! 19:54:57 (There probably won't be one package per host and target architecture.) 19:55:10 (Instead, a cross-compiling gcc or whatever will be a single metapackage, taking host and target as argument/options.) 19:55:13 Vorpal: There effectively is no anything-to-OS-X cross-compiler, so that's unsurprising. 19:55:16 well, if you do canadian cross of the compiler, you'll probably want to do it of the rest of the toolchain too, including gdb 19:55:38 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1218858/text?key=rmrta4udnevkdlwt0vgxg 19:55:42 2010-10-13 18:55:36 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1218858/text?key=rmrta4udnevkdlwt0vgxg [1486/1486] -> "text?key=rmrta4udnevkdlwt0vgxg" [1] 19:55:43 Gregor, actually the guy got the cross compiling to OS X to kind of work, but not for gdb. 19:55:50 so the osx-linux-osx gdb thing would pretty much be included in the work for the canadian cross 19:55:51 wait 19:55:55 that actually doesn't work without `run 19:56:00 `run rm "text?key=rmrta4udnevkdlwt0vgxg" 19:56:03 No output. 19:56:14 ...wtf 19:56:14 Gregor, as in, he successfully cross compiled "hell of a world" as a test (he refused to use "hello world" after all he had to go through to make it work) 19:56:19 oh it's html 19:56:19 heh 19:56:22 &prop 19:56:24 turned into alpha 19:56:25 somehow 19:56:26 wait no not alpha 19:56:29 proportional-to 19:58:33 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1218882/text?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog 19:58:35 2010-10-13 18:58:29 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1218882/text?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog [1553/1553] -> "text?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog" [1] 19:58:39 `run mv text?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog bin/wl 19:58:44 `run chmod +x bin/wl 19:58:44 No output. 19:58:49 No output. 19:58:54 `wl sv sill 19:59:01 Oh wait 19:59:02 No output. 19:59:03 I downloaded the text 19:59:08 if kitten is netbsd-based, will the freebsd opera builds work? 19:59:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:59:20 olsner: maybe. who knows? if not, try the linux emulation ;) 19:59:25 `fetch http://pastie.org/pastes/1218882/download?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog 19:59:28 2010-10-13 18:59:22 URL:http://pastie.org/pastes/1218882/download?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog [1124/1124] -> "download?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog" [1] 19:59:41 `run cat download?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog >bin/wl; rm download?key=1grvzo3sho5cexf4rrmog 19:59:48 No output. 19:59:50 `wl sv sill 19:59:53 No output. 20:00:00 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 20:00:04 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/hackenv.13346/bin/wl", line 5, in \ import json \ ImportError: No module named json 20:00:11 `run python --version 20:00:13 No output. 20:00:17 `run python -V 20:00:19 No output. 20:00:22 `run python -V 2>&1 20:00:24 Python 2.5.5 20:00:27 Gregor: 2.6 plz 20:00:42 elliott, will kitten still run on toasters? 20:00:52 Vorpal: Yes. If your toaster can run X11. 20:01:00 (Okay, so X11 isn't required, but still.) 20:01:14 elliott, hah. Will it be officially supported? 20:01:27 Vorpal: Yes, if your toaster has a standard PC inside. 20:01:38 elliott, ouch. That is not likely 20:01:48 Neither is your toaster having any kind of computer inside :) 20:02:05 elliott, well of course, but I meant, even ATX-mini is a bit large :P 20:02:07 Vorpal: OTOH, all brands of coffee maker will be supported. 20:02:19 Hopefully I will support RFC2324. 20:02:36 Wow, RFC2324 is sucky. It isn't even REST! 20:02:51 elliott, ah nice, I have one here that is completely devoid of anything like an integrated circuit 20:03:09 Vorpal: I redefine "coffee maker" to mean "coffee maker with a computer hooked up to it". 20:03:12 it is just a plain old electrical coffee maker, so simple inside that even your grandmum could understand it :P 20:03:26 What's all this about toasting kittens? 20:03:26 elliott, and that computer must be a PC? :D 20:03:39 Gregor, ...you did that intentionally right? 20:03:49 Toasted kittens? NEVER! 20:04:03 Wow, RFC2324 is sucky. It isn't even REST! <-- the cofee makers never rest! 20:05:00 alias coffee="curl -d '' http://kitchenpc:999/brew" 20:05:03 elliott: How about 2.7 20:05:07 elliott: BTW, one of the major reasons to actually have per-ABI directories is so that you actually have the flexibility to do something like install x86 programs on ARM and have them "just work" with qemu (and Linux's arbitrary ABI support). 20:05:18 alias coffee-status="curl -q http://kitchenpc:999/status" 20:05:19 elliott, um that should be the BREW method :P 20:05:20 $ coffee 20:05:24 $ coffee-status 20:05:25 NO COFFEE YET 20:05:30 $ coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee; coffee 20:05:42 FLOOD 20:05:50 (as in, a flood of coffee) 20:05:52 Vorpal: No, this is HTCPCPCP 20:06:01 Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol Crappy. Perfect! 20:06:06 elliott, yes indeed! it flooded your kitchen with cofee 20:06:09 coffee 20:06:09 It is the RESTful alternatiev to HTCPCP. 20:06:35 eugh, "BREW method" ... don't write brew with all-caps or I'll be reminded of Binary Runtime Environment for Wireless :/ 20:06:55 hungarian coffee 20:06:55 olsner, what was binary runtime environment for wireless? 20:07:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BREW 20:07:08 Gregor: You can apt upgrade the stuff inside, right? 20:07:13 Gregor: Plz just upgrade Python to 2.6 20:07:13 elliott: No. 20:07:19 elliott: But I can install from source. 20:07:23 Gregor: Okay... well... do that please :P 20:07:28 Python 2.5.5 is ancientish. 20:07:31 Why 2.6 and not 2.7? 20:07:39 Gregor: Sure, 2.7. 20:07:42 Debian is just ancient. 20:07:46 So I didn't think it'd have 2.7. 20:07:48 OH SNAP 20:08:01 Worse yet, HackBot is on Debian Lenny. 20:08:04 Which is why it has 2.5 20:08:30 Gregor, is lenny not like previous stable? 20:08:31 Didn't they promise to start upgrading regularly? 20:08:32 BREW :( 20:08:35 Vorpal: current stable 20:08:39 ah 20:08:40 but it's had point-releases 20:08:42 but fuck that shit 20:08:49 coppro: Get on to fucking that shit, stat. 20:08:58 Gregor: Anyway, not hamm? 20:09:01 elliott, which was previous stable? There was something in between woody and lenny right? 20:09:14 Gregor: I mean, ideally buzz of course, but hamm at the very least. 20:09:17 elliott, why not python 3 btw? 20:09:30 elliott: Potato 20:09:31 elliott: I used potato once :P 20:09:33 Vorpal: Python 3 is completely useless as it has approximately 0 library support and approximately 0 things written in it. 20:09:39 anyone want to hear a TERRIBLE math class homework question? 20:09:41 Gregor: Potato is .2 versions newer than hamm! Can't have that. 20:10:04 -!- oklopol has joined. 20:10:06 quintopia: ALWAYS 20:10:06 Man, what will Debian do when they run out of Toy Story characters? 20:10:11 Start naming them after the individual soldiers? 20:10:21 Which of the following are continuous functions? (Select all that apply.) 20:10:24 elliott: Use Toy Story {2,3} characters, presumably. 20:10:30 1 The temperature at a specific location as a function of time. 2 The temperature at a specific time as a function of the distance due west from New York City. 3 The altitude above 20:10:32 Gregor: And then? :P 20:10:34 sea level as a function of the distance due west from New York City. 4 The cost of a taxi ride as a function of the distance traveled. 5 The current in the circuit for the lights in a 20:10:38 room as a function of time. 20:10:47 Gregor: Even that plan has... flaws. 20:10:53 Gregor: "Boy, I can't wait for Debian barbie!" 20:10:58 quintopia, any other ones? 20:11:00 I was just about to say that :P 20:11:01 quintopia, or was that all? 20:11:06 tht's it 20:11:08 elliott: http://lackof.org/taggart/hacking/multiarch/ Oh, here's a thought on how to do multiarch "right". 20:11:13 elliott: I preordered the Barbie Computer Engineer :P 20:11:31 quintopia, well I don't know about taxi, but all the other ones are discrete, due to quantum mechanics 20:11:38 Gregor: Debian lotsohugginbear 20:11:38 my best guess at reading the asker's mind says "the first three" while the actual correct answer i believe to be "none of the above" 20:11:46 pikhq: reading 20:12:00 Gregor: (Yes yes, it'd just be lotso, shut up.) 20:12:11 however, the problem is compounded by not knowing whether the asker wants time zones to be taken into account in number 2. 20:12:22 pikhq: OK, well, it looks relatively good, except: 20:12:35 pikhq: The -os prefix is stupid, Kitten is not going to run on the same FS as any other OS. 20:12:47 elliott: Maybe ... JUST MAYBE ... at some point they'll come to their senses and use numbers. 20:12:48 quintopia, anyway, current in a circuit might be continuous if there is a dimmer connected (well not really due to quantum mechanics9 20:12:49 pikhq: And /*/foo directories are silly and /foo/* is a far better structure for things like that. 20:12:52 s/9/)/ 20:13:13 Gregor: Debian stretch 20:13:15 Gregor: Debian chunk 20:13:16 elliott: But you might want to support another OS's ABI someday. 20:13:19 vorpal: ignoring quantum mechanical effects, 5 would be continuous with or without a dimmer. 20:13:21 Gregor: Debian chattertelephone 20:13:26 Gregor: Debian jackinthebox 20:13:32 Debian pricklepants 20:13:41 ("What are you running?" "Debian pricklepants.") 20:13:42 quintopia, well yes, since current doesn't change instantly 20:13:48 pikhq: Well, okay, NetBSD does support Linux emulation. 20:13:51 pikhq: BUT STILL 20:13:54 but i suspect the asker expects to also ignore the latency in change of current in a wire 20:14:00 Gregor: Debian totoro (I <3 THAT CAMEO FOREVER) 20:14:01 quintopia, so why not write a proper answer to it! 20:14:09 (<3 <3 <3) 20:14:15 elliott: Just use it so that you can have multiple kernel ABIs "just work". 20:14:21 pikhq: MAYBE 20:14:32 elliott: Not having to change things in the future is GOOD. 20:14:38 pikhq: I'LL THINK ABOUT IT 20:14:39 quintopia, surely you can't get in trouble from writing a paragraph answering it properly 20:14:50 Gregor: Oh man Debian zurg. 20:14:55 That had better be the best release EVER. 20:15:10 Vorpal: it's not my homework. i have no need to. i just wanted to post its awfulness here so that i could say that the person whose homework it is, after getting a wave of complaints that the question is ambiguous, said "i'll go ask somewhere where people will actually want to help me." 20:15:14 elliott: They can use that as a transitionary release by spelling it both "zurg" and "zerg" 20:15:22 elliott: Then they can have Debian Protoss and Debian Terran 20:15:27 quintopia, well I don't know about taxi, but all the other ones are discrete, due to quantum mechanics ;; oh come on 20:15:29 Admittedly that doesn't get them too much farther ... 20:15:37 quintopia, okay then the person who asked for help is stupid too 20:15:39 Gregor: Unit names. 20:15:45 pikhq: PERFECTION 20:15:47 Vorpal: jexactly 20:15:51 elliott, wasn't it obvious it was a joke? 20:16:06 Vorpal: No, because it wasn't funny :P 20:16:26 Gregor: Wait. With Totoro they can "reasonably" claim that My Neighbour Totoro took place entirely within the Toy Story universe. 20:16:42 elliott, okay, lets rephrase that: wasn't it obvious it couldn't have been meant to be taken seriously? 20:16:42 Gregor: I'm talkin' Debian catbus here. 20:16:42 Gregor: Alternately, they could *commission* more Toy Story films just to have more namespace. 20:16:46 Gregor: :P 20:16:46 elliott: i also stated that the correct answer would be "none of the above" due to the discrete nature of the universe. want to bitch me out for pedanticism too? 20:16:49 elliott: There ya go, lots of new names. 20:16:52 elliott: YES 20:16:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:16:54 quintopia: Yes 20:17:06 Man, Debian catbus. 20:17:14 No OS can ever possibly hope to live up to that name. 20:17:16 "Toy Story 4: Debian Versioning" 20:17:28 heh 20:17:52 pikhq: But Disney/Pixar are jerks, so they give all the characters names in Klingon. 20:17:57 Or numbers. 20:18:07 Hi, I'm 4.7 20:18:15 Debian Qapla' 20:18:18 But Debian wouldn't use the number-names in order. 20:18:27 They'd have Debian 5.5, then Debian 4.7, then Debian 8.2 20:18:32 Gregor: Debian 8 "4.7" 20:18:37 *8.0 20:18:40 Exactly :P 20:19:04 Or maybe Debian 8.0 "Four Point Seven" 20:19:09 that would be quite fun 20:19:26 hm 20:19:31 Oh man, the Tux would have to be a character in Toy Story 4: Debian Versioning. 20:19:33 *no the 20:19:44 With his friend, Debian 20:19:49 Debian 12.0 debian 20:19:54 elliott, they could reuse the cast from previous movies in the newly commissioned one. That would be even more jerky 20:20:06 deb http://http.us.debian/org/debian debian main 20:20:42 elliott, oh and of course the Gnu gnu, just to irritate everyone but FSF. Oh wait, they would probably irritated too, since that is the natural state of them. 20:21:07 Debian 13.0 "gnu" 20:21:15 Have rms appear as the main antagonist 20:21:17 they should have the cast be: woody, buzz, bo peep, the main bug from bug's life, the little boy from Up, Mike Waczowski, and Tux 20:21:28 But they won't use outright evil characters for release names will they :( 20:21:38 elliott, no. Debian GNU/Linux 12.0 "gnu" 20:21:38 :P 20:21:39 elliott: sid 20:21:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:14 -!- augur has joined. 20:22:20 Debian 14.0 "Linux linux" 20:22:22 pikhq, sid is always fixed to unstable though afaik 20:22:24 pikhq: ...is the unstable release. 20:22:30 oh, are the debian releases named after toy story characters? 20:22:33 They'll never codename experimental because that's giving it too much legitimacy :P 20:22:36 olsner: Yeees... 20:22:37 elliott: And an outright evil character. 20:22:40 olsner, .... yes 20:22:44 olsner, or actually no 20:22:47 no 20:22:47 olsner, it is the other way around 20:22:58 ok 20:23:02 It's a coincidence! 20:23:04 olsner, Toy story characters are named after Debian releases 20:23:13 pikhq: sid is never released. 20:23:14 So it's not a release. 20:23:51 elliott, experimental, is that like unstable, just more so? 20:23:58 Oh, the next release codename is actually coming from Toy Story 2. 20:24:02 "wheezy". 20:24:19 elliott, hm when did they run out of Toy Story characters? 20:24:23 or when are they going to maybe 20:24:31 Vorpal: Staging area for things that have yet to hit unstable. 20:24:37 pikhq, heh 20:24:40 there are plenty of characters left 20:24:59 I would definitely use Debian T-Rex 20:25:07 I wonder what'll happen with Ubuntu. 20:25:14 elliott, hm when did they run out of Toy Story characters? 20:25:15 pikhq, in what sense? 20:25:17 They'll be fine for years. 20:25:24 elliott, ah 20:25:30 they will start over from the beginning of the alphabet iirc 20:25:30 Since they have a release once every two years or so :P 20:25:31 Vorpal: when ubuntu run out of alphabet 20:25:36 Gregor: twice a year 20:25:36 oh 20:25:37 right 20:25:47 So in something like 2017, OH GOD 20:25:52 Zygotic Zebra will come out 20:26:09 Zygotic. Wow. 20:26:10 And then... THEN WHAT 20:26:18 Gregor: Yes, even I'm amazed at how awesome that was. 20:26:19 And then Amorphous Aardvark. They have yet to use A. 20:26:22 no, they wouldn't use zygotic 20:26:28 Shut up. 20:26:34 elliott, well, they will just continue incrementing the unicode code point 20:26:36 zany maybe 20:26:38 pikhq: Truth 20:26:41 quintopia: You are boring 20:26:45 What letter did they start on? 20:26:46 and when that runs out we are probably not using *nix based systems any more 20:26:47 Wait... 20:26:48 or, more likely, zippy, "CAUSE ITS FAST LOL" 20:26:52 They only started the alphabetical thing recently. 20:26:54 Well "recently" 20:26:58 Gregor: W, then H, then B, then they went alphabetical. 20:27:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:27:03 W, H, B, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N is planned. 20:27:16 hm 20:27:27 So they have two Hs. Heh. 20:27:30 elliott, which one was the first H? 20:27:32 So they have A, B and C after 2017. 20:27:36 They reüsed H. Darnit. 20:27:36 OK, so next would be Þ 20:27:38 the second would be hedgehog 20:27:38 So 2018/2019. 20:27:39 something hippo 20:27:42 Vorpal: Hoary Hedgehog 20:27:45 lame 20:27:49 elliott, was that not the second one? 20:27:51 Then Ð 20:28:02 the second was hardy heron 20:28:04 Vorpal: Yes. 20:28:06 ah 20:28:09 quintopia: no it wasn't 20:28:12 hardy heron was 8.04 20:28:14 Then Ƿ 20:28:16 hoary hedgehog was 5.04 20:28:18 elliott: second h 20:28:21 oh 20:28:24 i thought you meant 20:28:25 second ubuntu 20:28:27 (which was hoary) 20:28:30 ah 20:28:47 elliott, on the other hand, think of a suitable name starting with c 20:28:49 I can't 20:28:50 Anyway after Cashmere Civet they'll have run out. 20:29:02 elliott, best I managed was "chaotic camel" 20:29:05 How about Cheshire Cat 20:29:08 which does not sound very good 20:29:11 And move to Toy Story characters. 20:29:13 And then... 20:29:15 there's a whole list of planned future names for ubuntu versions already...put your suggestions there 20:29:21 Gregor, Cheshire is not an adjective 20:29:24 Abrasive Ab... 20:29:24 Ab... 20:29:26 Uh... 20:29:34 elliott, must it be first *two* letters? 20:29:39 Vorpal: You fail 20:29:43 Vorpal: Yes it is. "Of or relating to Cheshire." 20:29:45 elliott: Abalone 20:29:48 pikhq, oh hah 20:29:58 Have rms appear as the main antagonist <-- this made me think of the bathtub monster from Rose is Rose (both eat toes) 20:30:00 elliott, they need to get aardvark 20:30:01 Vorpal: Yes. 20:30:13 Aardvarklike Aardvark 20:30:17 lol 20:30:19 No, seriously, Ab 20:30:22 Animal starting with Ab 20:30:22 Aardvarkish Aardvark? 20:30:29 elliott: abalone IS animal 20:30:29 elliott, "hardy heron", "karmic koala"? 20:30:32 Gregor: Anthropomorphic Aardvark. For the furries. 20:30:32 elliott: You already said Abalone 20:30:38 elliott, that is first one letter, not first two 20:30:39 quintopia: Yes 20:30:41 Errr 20:30:44 Abrasive Aberlone 20:30:45 s/you/quintopia/ >_> 20:30:47 *Abalone 20:30:52 Wait 20:30:55 you're right Vorpal 20:30:58 pikhq: It has to be aa 20:31:18 AAAAAAAaaaaaaaargh Aardvark 20:31:21 elliott@dinky:~/Code/wl$ grep '^aa' /usr/share/dict/words 20:31:21 aardvark 20:31:21 aardvark's 20:31:21 aardvarks 20:31:24 shouldn't it rather be something like aardvarkomorphic anthrope to refer to furries? 20:31:25 for the pirates fed up with ubuntu 20:31:41 you're right Vorpal <-- of course ;) 20:31:52 SO IGNORING AA 20:31:57 Gregor: A'a Aarvdvark? 20:32:01 Accurate Ac... 20:32:01 Ac... 20:32:15 Actually Aardvark? 20:32:20 s/accurate/acerbic/ 20:32:25 Acerbic Ac... 20:32:26 Ac... 20:32:28 HALP 20:32:36 "andalism" -- first line of [[Abalone]] 20:32:57 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:33:15 elliott, anyway, jaunty was the only one I remember where it is actually first two letters that are the same. 20:33:31 Vorpal: But after Cashmere Civet, they've run out of alphabet. 20:33:38 So we go to Aa, Ab, ..., Az, ..., Zz 20:33:41 Accidental Acupuncturist 20:33:48 Gregor: THAT IS NOT AN ANIMAL 20:33:48 Yes, an acupuncturist is an animal. 20:33:52 elliott, so they keep incrementing the unicode codepoint I told you! 20:33:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:33:58 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:34:08 acanthocephelan ftw! 20:34:10 -!- tombom has joined. 20:34:10 -!- tombom has quit (Changing host). 20:34:10 -!- tombom has joined. 20:34:13 Vorpal: So... { 20:34:17 {eric {gne 20:34:21 elliott, they need to get something starting with the del char into the dictionary quickly 20:34:23 :P 20:34:24 The famous {gne animal. 20:34:34 elliott, indeed! 20:34:47 I can't wait for いたい いぬ (itai inu). 20:34:54 I can't wait til Gnaught Gnu comes out. 20:35:04 elliott, once they reach the Chinese letters it will be easy 20:35:04 *Gnaughty 20:35:23 Ghastly Gnu 20:35:26 elliott, hm, which one was I? 20:35:29 as in 20:35:34 Gnawing Gnu. 20:35:35 Vorpal: intrepid ibex 20:35:37 ah 20:35:53 and what was F? 20:35:57 and what was E? 20:35:58 -!- cpressey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:36:04 Fucking Falcon 20:36:14 elliott, I swear they pick intentionally obscure adjectives. Okay, lucid wasn't, but many other ones were 20:36:15 Erect Ermine 20:36:28 Fucking Falcon, how does that work? 20:36:39 cpressey: have you a cloaca? 20:36:48 (By the principle of the Multiparadigm clusterfuck, apparently.) 20:37:01 quintopia: haven't checked recently 20:37:02 elliott: Wordnet says: http://p.zem.fi/ab-animals -- okay, so it counts pretty much anything that's alive by any definition, but... 20:37:19 fizzie: Abortus? 20:37:24 Is that the ... result of an abortion? 20:37:30 elliott: Yes. 20:37:34 fizzie: THAT'S NOT ALIVE 20:37:46 elliott: Well, http://p.zem.fi/b5og you see. 20:37:49 Accredited Achatellinus 20:37:53 cpressey: you can do it with one hand, while typing 20:37:54 Amiable Abortus 20:38:42 Still, there's two quite viable ab-animals there: 20:38:47 1. abalone, ear-shell -- (any of various large edible marine gastropods of the genus Haliotis having an ear-shaped shell with pearly interior) 20:38:48 1. abrocome, chinchilla rat, rat chinchilla -- (ratlike rodent with soft fur and large ears of the Andes) 20:38:51 When do we get to Augmented Australopithecine? 20:38:58 fizzie: Already said abalone. 20:39:08 Gregor: "Ages away" 20:39:29 Or are WE the Augmented Australopithecine? 20:39:32 (Oooooh) 20:39:34 (Aaaaah) 20:39:38 Abortus isn't animal, it's a murdered human! 20:39:38 What # is u in the alphabet? 20:39:52 ("Right next to me.") 20:40:06 elliott: what? 20:40:12 abcdefghijklmnopqrstu 20:40:13 21 20:40:13 elliott: A, B, C, D, E, F, G 20:40:24 Gregor: Augmented Australopithecine is in about 2039. 20:40:25 elliott: H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P 20:40:25 elliott: Q, R, S 20:40:27 elliott: T, _U_ 20:40:27 do re mi fa so la ti do 20:40:37 Axiomatic Axolotl 20:40:38 M=Math;C=12;f=[];R=[];A='charCodeAt';S='slice';for(P=0;P<96;){k="/SN;__/NK;OL/QN;__/OL;NK4L@@_C4_G@OL4SO@__4QN@OL3NB?_G3_K?OL/QN;__/SK;__4OL@__4LC@_G4LC@_G4_C@_G"[A](P);D="\0\0";for(j=0;k<95&&j<1e4;){v=M.max(-1e4,M.min(1e4,1e6*M.sin(j*M.pow(2,k/C)/695)))/M.exp(j++/5e3);D+=String.fromCharCode(v&255,v>>8&255)}R[P++]=new Audio("data:audio/wav;base64,UklGRgAAAABXQVZFZm10IBAAAAABAAEAwF0AAIC7AAACABAAZGF0YSBO 20:40:39 "+btoa(D))}for(e=i=252;i--;)f[i]=i%C&&i<240?(i+1)%C?r=0:'█
':'█';t=p=4;function d(c){for(q=p+[13,14,26,25][r%4],i=1;i<99;q+=((i*=2)==8?[9,-37,-9,37]:[1,C,-1,-C])[r%4])if('36cqrtx'[A](t)&i)if(-c){if(f[q])return 1}else f[q]=c}function m(e){Q=[-1,0,1,C][e?e.keyCode-37:3]||0;d(0);p+=Q;r+=!Q;s=d(1);if(s)p-=Q,r-=!Q;d('▒');document.body.innerHTML=f.join('').replace(/0/g,'░');return s}onkeydown=m;o= 20:40:39 function(){P=P%96;for(_ in[1,2,3])R[P++].play();if(m()){t=~~(7*M.random()),p=r=4;e=d(1)?1e9:e;for(y=0;y<240;)if(f[S](y,y+=C).join().indexOf('0')<0)f=f[S](0,C).concat(f[S](0,y-C),f[S](y))}setTimeout(o,e*=0.997)};o() 20:40:42 ^ Tetris, with music. 20:40:43 *do re mi fa sol la si do 20:40:53 http://js1k.com/demo/730 20:40:57 fis@eris:~$ wn animal -treen 20:40:57 Hyponyms of noun animal 20:40:57 Search too large. Narrow search and try again... 20:40:57 (What a silly limited thing.) 20:41:00 Gregor: ? 20:41:29 aloril, lang? 20:41:33 elliott, lang? 20:41:39 Phantom_Hoover: javascript 20:41:43 see http://js1k.com/demo/730 in firefox 20:41:45 (no music in chrome) 20:42:10 Is the music actually coded into the program? 20:42:14 coppro: Just correcting your solfege :P 20:42:24 Have to love the data:audio/wav dynamic audio-synthery. 20:42:27 elliott: you pinged me earlier 20:42:28 why 20:42:32 also how goes wa? 20:42:33 coppro: did I? 20:42:43 Gregor: it's ti in some languages 20:42:44 15:08 < elliott> coppro: Get on to fucking that shit, stat. 20:42:44 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. 20:42:46 Phantom_Hoover: It's also computed. 20:42:47 coppro: ah yes. 20:42:57 15:08 < elliott> coppro: Get on to fucking that shit, stat. 20:42:57 well you are the coprophiliac 20:43:01 ... 20:43:14 oerjan: LOSER LANGUAGES. 20:43:14 elliott: tetris is popular as a programming project precisely because it can be written with so little code 20:43:24 elliott, is it the actual Tetris music? 20:43:27 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. 20:43:29 Just load the page! 20:43:51 O.o 20:43:55 quintopia: Oh come on, Tetris with speeding-up and *the original Tetris theme generated in wav* in 1024 bytes is pretty damn impressive. 20:43:56 Phantom_Hoover: http://js1k.com/demo/730 20:44:41 elliott, the first 8 bars or so, not the full piece. 20:44:50 Phantom_Hoover: oh shut up 20:44:51 it's awesome 20:45:24 I was thinking they had some awesome procedural generator specially configured to belt out the full theme. 20:45:26 NOT HAPPY 20:45:38 Phantom_Hoover: IT'S AWESOME GO TO HELL 20:45:55 Anyway it's approximately the whole theme. 20:45:59 BUT NOT AS AWESOME AS IT COULD BE 20:46:06 elliott: i'm not hearing the music in firefox, and also, this version doesn't seem to let me hold down a key to move the block a long distance 20:46:07 It's enough to sing I Am The Man... to it. 20:46:13 quintopia: which Fx version? 20:46:15 * pikhq needs a decent pair of speakers, but is cheap. Dammit. 20:46:20 also, holding down helps 20:46:21 for speed 20:46:27 also, i don't think you realise just how little code 1k is 20:46:35 3.6.3 20:46:38 Gregor: How goes 2.6? 20:46:43 quintopia: OS? 20:46:53 I'm on 3.6.10, so, try upgrading. 20:46:58 elliott: Apparently it's in the repos, but since I hadn't updated Hackbot's chroot in roughly all eternity, it's not installed :P 20:47:08 Gregor: I thought you said you were gonna source it. 20:47:18 elliott: I was, until I noticed it was in the repo anyway. 20:47:23 Gregor: So how's that going 20:47:28 Still upgrading. 20:47:36 lawl 20:47:41 I bet it breaks everything. 20:47:45 Probably. 20:47:50 But *eh*, these things happen. 20:48:09 I've recreated the Hcakiki chroot three times after breaking it horribly by trying to do stupid things. 20:48:13 I can do the same with Hackbot. 20:48:15 *Hackiki 20:48:17 *HackBot 20:48:56 also, where is my preview of the next block >: 20:49:21 quintopia: Man up. 20:49:34 * elliott writes HASKTRIS 20:49:39 No, wait. 20:49:40 Lazytris 20:49:47 elliott: Then compile that to <1K of JS. 20:49:51 Gregor: X-D No. 20:50:17 !haskell randomIO 20:50:32 Gregor: :| 20:50:42 I do not like you, elliott. 20:51:04 I do not like green eggs and ham, either. 20:51:12 I do not like them, Ego I am. 20:51:32 I do not like them on the 'net. 20:51:48 I can't rhyme *shrugs* 20:52:24 !haskell 42 20:52:36 42 20:53:26 what an unexpected result! 20:53:48 but I guess it is too lazy to compute the question 20:54:05 -!- augur has joined. 20:54:27 in lazytris the block isn't actually drawn until it hits bottom. you better _pray_ you hit the right buttons. 20:55:13 oerjan, actually, the blocks doesn't hit the bottom until you lose. 20:55:16 http://codu.org/imgs/rc.png Images I've left floating around codu.org that are totally self-descriptive. 20:55:39 Vorpal: wicked 20:55:44 Gregor, hah 20:55:53 It is the nineties and there is time for JSKlax? 20:56:21 Gregor, any idea what rc.png actually is. I'm genuinely interested 20:56:28 Not even the foggiest bit of a clue. 20:56:43 Gregor, to tell the truth it looks pretty random. Which rules out a lot of stuff rc could stand for 20:56:48 Clearly something with poorly-correlated axes. 20:57:01 race condition! 20:57:09 Gregor, what about timestamp on file? 20:57:09 Random Crap 20:57:15 Gregor, maybe you could grep logs 20:57:24 if ever mentioned on irc 20:57:27 I doubt it was #esoteric-related. 20:57:33 Or otherwise IRC-related 20:57:33 * augur greps gregor's logs 20:57:40 hm okay 20:57:52 augur: I hope you're using a -E! 20:57:54 It is the nineties and there is time for JSKlax? ;; wat 20:58:02 oh right klax. 20:58:38 klix klax 20:59:01 oerjan: sequence.repeat$randomIO 20:59:02 make this work plz 20:59:08 :P 20:59:50 not a chance 21:00:22 aha randomRs 21:00:22 try randoms<$>newStdGen instead 21:00:34 oerjan: right :p 21:01:06 Prelude Random> g<-newStdGen 21:01:09 Prelude Random> randoms g :: [Int] 21:01:09 [ 21:01:46 huh 21:02:29 elliott: Whoever writes copy for the Xubuntu installer should be shot. 21:02:35 pikhq: What does it say? 21:02:38 `run top -l 1 21:02:50 elliott: erm did it hang at [ ? 21:02:53 oerjan: yes 21:02:54 elliott: It's got grammatical and spelling errors. 21:02:59 pikhq: Do quote. 21:03:12 The one I remember most strong was "linux". 21:03:13 weird 21:03:15 Yes, lower-case. 21:03:19 pikhq: (Xubuntu doesn't get nearly as much love as (K)ubuntu) 21:03:49 *cough*aptosid*cough* 21:03:52 No output. 21:04:06 Gregor: What differences does it have from Sid? 21:04:12 pikhq: More ricer. 21:04:18 pikhq: Just bugfixes. 21:04:19 pikhq: It's sid for people who think that pre-installed KDE is a grand idea. 21:04:26 (Well, the LiveCD uses KDE.) 21:04:34 elliott: The XFCE live CD uses XFCE. 21:04:48 Meanwhile, sid uses whatever the fuck you install :P 21:05:02 Gregor, I would be surprised if the xfce livecd used, say, fluxbox 21:05:04 :P 21:05:05 There is basically no reason not to just use testing anyway. 21:05:24 elliott: aptosid is more up-to-date than testing, at the cost of being less stable. 21:05:32 testing is not exactly out-of-date. 21:05:40 elliott: Depends on the packages. 21:05:44 elliott: *package 21:05:55 elliott: Some packages are basically right up to latest, others trail behind. 21:05:55 Testing's usually pretty up-to-date. It only ceases to be even vaguely so when they do a freeze for a new stable. 21:06:10 (Yeah, the freezes are annoying to) 21:06:21 !haskell import System.Random; main = print.take 10.randoms=< ok this works: 21:06:47 import Random 21:06:47 main=do{g<-newStdGen;print(randoms g::[Int])} 21:06:51 but gives horrible things 21:06:51 Yeesh, I'm doing a system upgrade on Codu and NOW everybody's hammering it >_< 21:06:58 elliott@dinky:~/Code/lazytris$ runhaskell lazytris.hs | head -c 50 21:06:58 [-7911342775086485719,-3419649560986927097,-704380lazytris.hs: : commitAndReleaseBuffer: resource vanished (Broken pipe) 21:07:26 this game is hard: http://js1k.com/demo/823 (my high score after 4 plays is only 11!) 21:07:33 elliott, I'm not surprised at the broken pipe 21:07:40 quintopia: http://sibeli.us/ <-- this game is hard 21:07:45 quintopia: yikes 21:07:45 (Not 1K JS though) 21:07:47 Vorpal: I meant the integers. 21:07:55 elliott, they *are* integers 21:08:01 Yes. Yes they are. 21:08:08 Gregor: That game makes you listen to Sibelius, though. 21:08:10 elliott, so just do abs() or something if that is the issue 21:08:20 elliott, that is nasty 21:08:37 elliott: s/makes/allows/ 21:08:57 Gregor, what is the goal of the game? 21:08:59 Vorpal: Or use randomRs. 21:09:07 Vorpal: Welcome to Sibeli.us! This is a web based version of that insipid game-music genre that's popular lately, with a twist: The music is Sibelius' Finlandia. Sound easy? Feel free to try! Use the keys '1', '2', '3' and '4' or 's', 'w', 'b' and 'p' when an action hits the relevant letter (and music). And have fun! 21:09:24 Gregor: It needs to penalise you for pressing swbp when there's nothing there. 21:09:29 elliott: It does. 21:09:36 elliott: It just doesn't let your score go below 0. 21:09:37 Gregor: Doesn't go negative though. 21:09:39 LAME 21:09:51 oh wait 21:09:54 I mixed up people 21:09:56 this game is hard: http://js1k.com/demo/823 (my high score after 4 plays is only 11!) 21:09:59 I want to go for minimum possible score! 21:09:59 is the one I meant 21:10:04 what is the goal of that game 21:10:04 Vorpal: Get the blue. 21:10:06 er 21:10:08 get the orange 21:10:09 you are blue 21:10:10 ah 21:10:15 grey is dead 21:10:19 timer runs out is dead 21:10:27 okay 21:10:49 http://sibeli.us/ <-- "meh, flash" 21:10:56 but then, I'm no sibelius fan 21:11:17 Vorpal: Flash only for audio. 21:11:23 Gregor, oh? 21:11:25 Vorpal: And don't say HTML5. 21:11:30 Gregor, don't you um need that for the page? 21:11:32 HTML5 21:11:32 Vorpal: If you say HTML5, I punch you in the face. 21:11:35 Oh, that was the installer for the last LTS version. Why would I want *that*? 21:11:40 Gregor: that game would be ridiculously easy if it were smooth and synced with the music properly 21:11:44 * Gregor punches elliott in the face. 21:11:48 quintopia: Windows? 21:11:55 Gregor: It's punch-worthy because it works! 21:11:58 GREGORLOGIC 21:12:11 Or I guess Gregor supports IE. 21:12:21 gregor: no. it would probably work in windows. adobe supports windows... 21:12:28 quintopia: No, it's SHIT in Windows. 21:12:32 quintopia: It's much better everywhere else. 21:12:40 i shall attempt it in chrome 21:13:12 s/chrome/chromium/ 21:13:13 Gregor: It's punch-worthy because it works! <-- he thinks it doesn't 21:13:16 for zee 21:13:31 It doesn't work for ZEE for different reasons ... 21:13:46 well, except for zee it works nicely 21:13:48 with html5 21:13:54 It doesn't work for Sibeli.us because no implementation communicates time very well. 21:14:05 Your mom doesn't communism. 21:14:07 * Vorpal forces elliott to use gopher5 21:14:13 For ZEE HTML5 can't loop properly. Neither can Flash, but it's a modicum better. 21:14:35 Gregor, why not just use jsmips + proper code to loop! ;) 21:14:50 Vorpal: Because HTML5 doesn't support synth, only feeding it audio files. 21:14:56 import Random 21:14:56 main=do{g<-newStdGen;let b=randomRs(0,6)g::[Int]} 21:14:57 ah 21:14:59 The beginnings of LAZYTRIS 21:15:09 Gregor, no streams? 21:15:21 Vorpal: Honestly, if HTML5 Audio had a function to just hand it bits to spit out, that would be ideal. 21:15:27 Gregor: #whatwg 21:15:39 Vorpal: It can do streams (sometimes), but that's a waste of bandwidth if you're just looping. 21:15:39 Gregor, with streams you could do it properly server-side 21:15:47 hm 21:15:49 s/igork/pluda/ 21:16:01 Gregor, maybe you need to do it locally instead of in the browser then 21:16:07 Gregor, using sdl or such 21:16:16 Vorpal: The SDL version of ZEE loops beautifully :P 21:16:24 Which is why I sort of don't care that the browser version is crapsiloo. 21:16:28 Gregor, oh, you somehow combined sdl + js? 21:16:34 Yup >:) 21:16:39 Gregor, how 21:16:39 http://codu.org/projects/gjs/ 21:16:50 Manually is how :P 21:16:57 slow to load 21:17:02 still waiting 21:17:08 Codu is doing a system upgrade right now, yeeeesh 21:17:39 Gregor, timed out 21:17:51 * Gregor projects hatred at Vorpal 21:17:56 Gregor, why? 21:17:59 ah now it works 21:18:09 Codu is doing a system upgrade right now, yeeeesh 21:18:11 hatred: makes stuff work 21:18:19 yes 21:18:30 Gregor, I just updated you on the current situation 21:18:39 !run wget http://everything | bzip2 21:18:44 THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ME APPRISED. 21:18:54 cpressey: `run 21:19:00 elliott: thank you. 21:19:02 `run wget http://everything | bzip2 21:19:18 BZh9rE8P 21:19:18 Gregor, IT WAS SO LITTLE. NOTHING TO THANK ME FOR. 21:19:26 olsner: Gregor is all about red hats 21:19:33 HackEgo: CoooOOoooOOool 21:19:44 Gregor, what js engine do you use? 21:19:45 oerjan: ooh, that's clever 21:19:47 in gjs 21:19:53 Vorpal: Spidermonkey 21:19:58 Gregor: V8! 21:20:00 Gregor, not v8? 21:20:00 * elliott gets shot 21:20:04 >_< 21:20:24 As a professional in the field of JavaScript behavior: Screw V8 :P 21:20:33 Gregor, oh? fun 21:20:44 Gregor, it is probably faster though 21:20:50 It would be. 21:20:52 Undeniably. 21:20:55 oh, V8 is broken? nice :D 21:21:00 olsner: NO. 21:21:01 Er 21:21:06 Didn't mean for that to be caps. 21:21:06 olsner: No. 21:21:18 Vorpal: But since all of my time is spent in SDL, that's irrelevant. 21:21:30 Gregor, ah 21:21:32 [from] whence Screw V8 then? 21:21:32 * elliott wonders if Gregor will bother qualifying his statements about v8 21:22:20 V8 has great performance in a possibly-general-case-but-maybe-not-it's-never-really-been-quantified, and EXTREMELY bad performance in other cases. 21:22:51 With semantically-innocuous changes to JS code, I can make v8 balloon up 30x. 21:23:01 I can't get SpiderMonkey to go more than 4x. 21:23:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:23:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 21:23:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:23:16 you should write a JS benchmark :D 21:23:26 olsner: See my upcoming PLDI paper (if it's accepted) 21:23:45 Gregor, PLDI? 21:23:54 Vorpal: http://google.com/search?q=pldi 21:24:16 Gregor, pldi.net or the sigplan link? 21:24:16 gregor: runs smoother in chromium, but letters are still about a half second ahead of music. got a 362174 somehow 21:24:22 Vorpal: The SIGPLAN link X_X 21:24:31 those fast sections should have the letters moving faster :/ 21:24:32 Gregor, there was also a stanford link 21:24:40 quintopia: A half second? That's mega-screwy, something weird in your audio. 21:24:46 Vorpal: That's just a particular instance of the conference. 21:25:12 http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/ looks like a good link 21:25:14 Gregor, ah, sigplan is acm, meaning I should be able to get it through the university proxy if it is acccepted 21:26:19 Gregor: You shoulda put up a paper online, changed one wording in one paragraph and then submitted it :P 21:26:21 Ad-hoc open access 21:26:44 Oh 21:26:45 You did 21:26:52 elliott, fail indeed :P 21:26:52 Or... did you 21:26:54 Is http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/ it? 21:27:15 Gregor: Is that TeX with Times? 21:27:23 WHY IS IT SLANTED 21:27:40 elliott, slanted, where? 21:27:43 That is LaTeX with SIGPLAN's instituted templates. 21:27:51 Vorpal: zoom out and look 21:27:54 the text is slanted slightly 21:28:06 I don't see it. Oh well 21:28:16 elliott: I think your brain is slanted slightly. 21:28:16 elliott, TeX with Comic Sans would have been worse anyway 21:28:43 Also, at least it's not Word :P 21:28:49 elliott, my pdf reader does not list times as being embedded 21:29:02 unless 21:29:05 what is txtt? 21:29:08 it's important 21:29:14 there is NumbusRomNo9L and such 21:29:30 Numbus lol 21:29:33 thou failest 21:29:44 oops 21:29:47 Nimbus 21:29:57 elliott, I use qwerty yes :P 21:30:09 Fucking FONTophiles 21:30:27 Gregor++ 21:30:37 elliott, as long as it isn't nubus I'm happy 21:30:37 seriously? Nimbus is just an imitation of Times. 21:30:44 Nubile Sans. 21:30:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:30:57 elliott, Times Sans 21:31:02 Helvetica Serif 21:31:06 indeed! 21:31:09 Comic Serif OH GOD WHY 21:31:17 http://www.swiss-miss.com/2008/04/helvetica-serif.html 21:31:18 -!- augur has joined. 21:31:24 elliott, Comic Antiqua! (spelling?) 21:33:07 Arial Tapered and Pointy 21:33:07 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:33:32 -!- wareya has joined. 21:34:37 elliott: I totally lied. 21:34:39 `run /opt/python27/bin/python -c 'print "Hello"' 21:34:40 Hello 21:35:09 Gregor, how did you lie? 21:35:23 Vorpal: I said I was going to just install a newer system Python. But I did not :P 21:35:36 Gregor, so you compiled from source in the end? 21:35:41 Yup 21:35:49 Gregor: Now replace the normal python with it :P 21:35:56 elliott: Not gonna happen. 21:35:59 Why not? 21:36:17 elliott: Because that's part of the system, and since the upgrade went all kerplutz I've decided maybe I just want to leave that as-is. 21:36:37 If you want /usr/bin/python2.7, that can be arranged. 21:36:44 HackEgo: Hi. 21:36:44 Gregor: Okay, put /opt/python27/bin first in the PATH. 21:36:58 Actually, that most certainly can be arranged. 21:37:03 (And should be) 21:37:26 Yeah, I had some fun after moving my system python to 2.7 21:37:37 Well, not even that 21:37:56 Just putting a Python 2.7 called 'python' in my ~/bin which is on my path 21:38:17 Suddenly #/usr/env/bin python has EXCITING NEW SEMANTICS 21:38:22 *!# 21:38:29 **#! 21:38:59 `which python 21:39:03 /opt/python27/bin/python 21:39:24 cpressey: Luckily, putting it in this PATH is more OK as it's only used for things within HackEgo :P 21:39:32 cpressey, new semantics? how so? 21:39:44 Gregor: I'm sorry to hear that. (ok, not really) 21:39:46 Vorpal: Suddenly, it pulls up the python in his ~ 21:39:57 pikhq, yes that is obvious 21:40:04 pikhq, I meant, "it isn't like it went to python3" 21:40:10 so things should just continue to work 21:40:20 Point releases can still break things sometimes. 21:40:24 Vorpal: tell that to ubuntu system tools 21:40:41 cpressey, oh, hah 21:41:12 `wl sv sill 21:41:15 No output. 21:41:21 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 21:41:25 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/hackenv.15489/bin/wl", line 37, in \ q = query(continue_id) \ File "/tmp/hackenv.15489/bin/wl", line 29, in query \ response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen \ return _opener.open(url, 21:41:30 we totally need #!/usr/bin/guess_format_and_interpret 21:42:09 We totally need an OS with sufficient metadata that the format of every file can be known. 21:42:21 Of course, I also totally need a pony. 21:42:45 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' 21:42:47 Traceback (most recent call last): File "/tmp/hackenv.15552/bin/wl", line 37, in q = query(continue_id) File "/tmp/hackenv.15552/bin/wl", line 29, in query response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)AttributeError: 21:42:57 `run wl 'sv sill' 2>&1 | tr -d '\n' | tail -c +50 21:43:00 ckenv.15603/bin/wl", line 37, in q = query(continue_id) File "/tmp/hackenv.15603/bin/wl", line 29, in query response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)AttributeError: ProxyHandler instance has no attribute 'open' 21:43:08 I'll fix it later. 21:46:38 DISCOVERY: Browser that supports HTML5 Audio + PCM .wav + data: URLs = do client-side loop unrolling! 21:46:38 (More like OBSERVATION) 21:48:17 * cpressey huh?s 21:54:05 To loop oggs in a web browser: 1) download ogg via XHR, 2) decompress ogg with JS code, 3) duplicate decompressed audio a bunch of times, 4) write that into a data: URL as a PCM .wav, 5) load that into HTML5 Audio 21:55:25 * cpressey reads that 21:55:34 It's only too bad you can't stream like that. 21:57:45 cpressey, what is it you actually do? 21:58:30 elliott: Well, I must say. Xubuntu > Debian when it comes to "just works". 21:58:37 He's a homeless, jobless layabout living off social security and drugs. 21:59:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:01:52 Gregor, do you and him actually hate each other, or is it just a joke? 22:02:14 Phantom_Hoover: we all hate each other here. especially you. 22:02:38 hope that cleared things up 22:02:38 Really? I only really hate sshc/ 22:02:56 Fuck you oerjan, we don't hate each other! 22:03:12 ...i hate people who cannot even follow our hate policy properly 22:03:19 Gregor: I have now read your paper 22:04:30 olsner: Congratulations on your literacy. 22:04:51 thanks :D I'm quite proud of it myself 22:05:19 olsner is an ace at littering 22:05:53 WHAT THE HELL WHY IS FLASH IN XUBUNTU ACTUALLY USING CPU WELL 22:06:01 IT IS NOT RAPING MY CPU 22:06:09 UNLIKE ON REAL HARDWARE 22:06:32 this is virtually unheard of! 22:06:47 It's using like 30% CPU for Youtube. Note: Flash in Gentoo uses like 110% CPU. 22:07:04 -!- augur has joined. 22:07:06 pikhq, Flash isn't that bad on my computer IIRC... 22:07:12 Java is the real criminal 22:07:36 lol, java 22:08:47 I use it occasionally. 22:09:13 java is alright, but surely not *applets*? 22:10:20 Now that we're done hatin' on each other, anybody have an opinion on my crazy JS-data-URL-wtf plan? :P 22:11:36 Gregor: Delicious. 22:12:22 now embed that in MIPS and we're all set 22:12:52 Someone tell me what cpressey actually does. 22:13:06 Phantom_Hoover: Idonno, that's why I made up nonsense :P 22:13:15 No one but cpressey is privy to that information. 22:14:09 I don't know what you do, either... 22:14:30 Gregor studies Ph.D.s 22:14:32 even cpressey doesn't know, the nsa wipe his memory whenever he leaves and reinstate it when he comes back 22:14:40 cpressey does Python 22:14:49 Debbie does Dallas 22:15:07 oerjan: Though leaving him with an imprint that will lead him to have an inexplicable desire to come back the next day. 22:15:25 well that part was obvious 22:15:41 oerjan, are you still an ex-mathematician? 22:15:49 yesh 22:15:49 yes 22:15:51 the other cpressey probably thinks he's discussing esoteric knitting patterns all night 22:16:01 The only way you can stop being an ex-anything is by becoming one again ... 22:16:35 Gregor: That didn't work to get your ex-wife back now, did it? 22:16:53 elliott: No, I became my wife. 22:17:14 Kinky. 22:17:15 kinky. 22:17:17 Also illegal in 13 states. 22:17:20 oerjan: snap 22:17:57 crackle 22:18:11 push 22:18:16 oerjan, so do you sit with a sign saying "will simplify for food"? 22:18:48 no no, it's "will make incomprehensible for food" 22:21:15 "does: 22:21:19 "does" 22:21:26 **"does" 22:21:45 what was the question? 22:21:53 < Phantom_Hoover> Someone tell me what cpressey actually does. 22:21:55 i rock 22:21:56 duh 22:23:06 oh, you're a musician? 22:23:21 Phantom_Hoover, you mean what he does for a living: well, I know he complained about python in a work-related context. I think he works as a programmer. 22:24:44 Gregor studies Ph.D.s 22:24:45 cpressey does Python 22:25:07 elliott, he studies people with Ph.D.? 22:25:12 Apparently. 22:25:14 déjà dit 22:25:22 Phoetal Disease 22:25:23 Vorpal: No, he studies Ph.D.s themselves. 22:25:23 olsner: you haven't heard my MED songs! 22:25:33 oerjan: *Phetal 22:25:36 oerjan: good band name. 22:25:37 foetus is a hypercorrection 22:25:53 cpressey: nope! 22:25:54 elliott, ah. The abstract Ph.D.s are quite tricky to study I heard. Takes a lot of skill. 22:26:07 OE KAY 22:26:11 He studies applied Ph.D.s 22:26:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:27:30 elliott, ah 22:27:37 elliott, that is indeed more tangible 22:27:41 déjà dit 22:27:44 Someone appreciate this :( 22:27:48 Gregor: With a fast enough Javascript engine, you could have a single