< 1285978210 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct z { int a:0.5; int b:0.5; } < 1285978226 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fair to say I can store the integer 0, and no other integers, in a < 1285978229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto b < 1285978255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also fair to say I can store the integers 0 and 1 in z, by the rules of C < 1285978288 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but casting seems like cheating < 1285978316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's as close as i'm going to attempt atm < 1285978414 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm thinking is if you can store 6 values in a and 5 values in b then you should be able to store 30 values... you could somehow base it off that idea < 1285978455 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon < 1285978980 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285979049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285979083 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1285979130 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285979130 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1285979130 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1285979448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1285979787 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285979873 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this conversation about again? < 1285979876 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1285979892 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something i'm somewhat familiar with, but i can't extract a summary from the scrollback easily :P < 1285979902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractional bits of information < 1285979905 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285979925 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, but i mean, you just decided to talk about that or there was some specific thing (encoding, problem, whatever) that kicked it off? < 1285979943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just talking about fractals < 1285979946 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285979947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have fractional dimensions < 1285979965 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should tell you guys about my script to encode binary data in mirc control codes < 1285979967 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1285979982 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only grows the size by 272% < 1285979985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1285979990 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty good considering the previous incarnation was like 400% :P < 1285979999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just base64 it? < 1285980004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's visible < 1285980015 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is to encode data but not clutter the screen with said data < 1285980023 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the control codes are non printing characters) < 1285980023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: wouldn't work here alas, lame +c ;) < 1285980028 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1285980033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My system will display control codes. < 1285980034 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how i hate that mode < 1285980035 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1285980041 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm sorry for your system < 1285980041 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1285980063 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's the encoding that's interesting not its use (i haven't really made use of it since i never finished the script it was intended for) < 1285980065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not mirc control codes < 1285980066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colours etc. < 1285980073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Aaah. < 1285980078 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should have said formatting codes < 1285980083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Are mIRC control codes using the 8th bit of the 7-bit ASCII? < 1285980086 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control was a poorly chosen word < 1285980090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1285980092 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are all <32 < 1285980118 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, that pesky 8th bit gives some fun results on misconfigured linux clients when used in conjunction with unicode ;) < 1285980129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invert/italics is tab, fun fun < 1285980140 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some irc clients will pass the utf-8 data as-is but you can hide C2 control codes in valid UTF-8 values < 1285980143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My system will render many of those using inverse-color and the ^F^O^O notation, IIRC. < 1285980157 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse (invert?) is 22 < 1285980163 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italics is new, but i thought it was not 9 < 1285980173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285980173 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm not using mirc 7 yet so i don't have it included in my encoding < 1285980175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ^I is something < 1285980178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konversation thinks it's italics < 1285980182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which causes ais523 no end of trouble < 1285980187 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^i is tab < 1285980194 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on mirc 6.5 at least < 1285980194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1285980197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least one client thinks it's italics < 1285980201 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc isn't the only client to implement its own stuff < 1285980210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1285980212 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virc(?) has rgb color codes < 1285980219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said, using control codes is pretty silly in general. < 1285980219 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe xircon, i forget which < 1285980229 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, but they can come in useful sometimes i guess < 1285980241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And evil if it's XON or XOFF. :P < 1285980242 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rule of thumb is to avoid them in "public" < 1285980263 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as evil as sending telnet codes that do fun things to people using telnet :) < 1285980281 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using my utf-8 trick to issue arbitrary ansi codes to someone's terminal < 1285980281 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1285980293 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what i WAS talking about was my encoding < 1285980306 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally i just took the easy way out and used ^kN,NN or ^kNN < 1285980312 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 3-digit decimal or 2-digit decimal values < 1285980318 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is obviously not very efficient < 1285980319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My rule of thumb is that all text on the Internet should be valid UTF-8, and normalised using NFC. < 1285980328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: See if that trick works on my terminal, or if PuTTY will remove overlong encodings (if that is what you are doing?) < 1285980332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1285980349 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'll look it up, lemme finish typing < 1285980361 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, mirc has more than just ^k < 1285980378 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for another, ^k has like 7 valid distinct uses < 1285980396 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wound up creating a script to find how many permutations of valid color code sequences could be had from N bytes < 1285980404 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color/formatting code, i mean < 1285980419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal ASCII escape codes will just be reformatted by PHIRC, though < 1285980429 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one byte could be any of the single byte values, or you could have 2, 3, 4, 6, or 7 byte color codes < 1285980455 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that wrong... 2, 3, 5, 6 < 1285980460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my client deliberately does not parse IRC color codes < 1285980461 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1285980479 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i found one that came close to a similar amount of values as a binary bit border < 1285980491 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and learned that i could get an extra bit if i used it twice < 1285980505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Reasonable decision, actually. < 1285980510 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pretty close to in synch with binary, would take a lot of extra work to approach the limit which isn't much less than 272% < 1285980523 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now the values depend on the codes, as well as the pattern of their ordering < 1285980535 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty neat :) < 1285980540 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the utf-8 thing < 1285980564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It just displays color codes using the notation it normally uses for control characters, which is uppercase letter, black on magenta background) < 1285980596 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C1 not C2, silly me < 1285980598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will parse some control codes used commonly on IRC, though, if /SET FORMAT + < 1285980612 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C0_and_C1_control_codes#C1_.28ISO_8859_and_Unicode.29 < 1285980621 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether C1 control codes are enabled in PuTTY < 1285980622 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of those can be embedded as the second byte of a utf-8 sequence < 1285980631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if there is a way to turn them off < 1285980637 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most irc clients screen out terminal codes but they let this one pass because they see it as valid utf-8 < 1285980653 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what linux foos get for bitching about people fucking up their screen... eventually i get curious and find what happened and then they get exploited ;) < 1285980720 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess 155 is the ansi code thing < 1285980730 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :194 155 followed by an ansi sequence should do it < 1285980766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a mode to disable C1 escape codes? < 1285980770 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :›30;40m black on black(?) < 1285980776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PHIRC doesn't actually know anything about UTF-8) < 1285980782 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, guess it would depend on your terminal configuration < 1285980788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, you could normalise your Unicode. < 1285980792 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should be fine, since it'll only see the C1 code and block it < 1285980825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: That did not change the color. I can see a block followed by "30;40m" and the text < 1285980837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1285980839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can see it is fine < 1285980846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: ^[30;40m < 1285980848 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might have done it wrong, i kinda f orget < 1285980858 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, that symbol is not the same as ctrl+[ < 1285980862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1285980878 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a C1 code that can also be used to introduce ansi codes < 1285980879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You normally do escape and a left square bracket, that is the CSI code < 1285980889 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i successfully spoofed my nick to a vulnerable client while testing once < 1285980891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C1 though, CSI code is a single character < 1285980899 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1285980939 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always wondered why it was esc then [ when i was a kid < 1285980942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: actually parse your damned text right. :P < 1285980945 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now i know it is because esc is ctrl+[ < 1285980954 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well that's the thing, the irc client IS parsing the text correctly < 1285980958 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1285980975 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc client thinks the terminal can display utf-8 < 1285980981 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the terminal actually cannot or is not configured to < 1285981038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: (Esc+[)3 is... not a valid UTF-8 sequence. < 1285981069 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i sent < 1285981077 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sent 194 155, which is valid utf-8 < 1285981090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 155 is also C1 for CSI introducer < 1285981095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah. It is. < 1285981120 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me sorta of another fun bug i found once < 1285981124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is up to the terminal program to parse UTF-8 codes (or whatever other encoding it is configured to use), so if a malformed UTF-8 code is sent with a ASCII control character immediately after a UTF-8 begin code, PHIRC will convert it to escape codes before the terminal sees it < 1285981135 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain versions of psybnc were vulnerable to a weird thing that let you basically spoof messages from the irc server < 1285981172 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ...wat? < 1285981190 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like undesirable behavior; i mean, it is a legit utf-8 code and should not be interpreted as a control code < 1285981191 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tried C1 codes, now try sending an overlong encoding of the C0 escape codes, to see if this program will block it. < 1285981213 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you are referring to by that < 1285981221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: What's the actual Unicode code point for that combination? < 1285981237 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be undefined haha, i don't know, but it still shouldn't be taken to be an escape code < 1285981238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: But multi-byte UTF-8 codes never contain 7-bit ASCII codes. < 1285981251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Unicode code point: the number it decodes to. < 1285981255 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not 7-bit ascii < 1285981257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The high bit is set to indicate it is a UTF-8 code. < 1285981259 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1285981261 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be umm < 1285981277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter if it's not assigned. :) < 1285981297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10011011 < 1285981303 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually decodes to 155 < 1285981310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+155? < 1285981319 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1285981340 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it was important that it do so anymore < 1285981357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no; the Unicode code points are usually listed in hex. Anyways. < 1285981370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes a null character is encoded using overlong encoding so that you can have embedded nulls in a string that is used in a program that uses null terminated strings) < 1285981442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's U+9B. "CONTROL SEQUENCE INTRODUCER". < 1285981483 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1285981486 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :P < 1285981488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: the client should *probably* be removing that anyways. < 1285981499 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that it actually encoded to that value haha < 1285981510 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess you could change it to whatever you wanted < 1285981515 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by mangling the first few bits < 1285981519 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first byte could be many things < 1285981523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, 0x00 through 0xFF are from Latin-1. < 1285981536 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1285981542 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i knew that, actually < 1285981556 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure why i chose 194, maybe i forgot what the bug was about < 1285981563 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be that the client was just decoding it and not blocking it < 1285981592 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i see... sorta. by overlong, you mean a utf-8 value that doesn't need 3 bytes but uses 3, for example? < 1285981607 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1285981611 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11000000 10000000 < 1285981637 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-null? < 1285981640 0 :Kordalien!~chatzilla@adsl-71-141-89-187.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285981644 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't decode here haha < 1285981701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got rendered as though it were Latin-1 here. < 1285981714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(typical for handling invalid UTF-8) < 1285982288 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1285983853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got a shaded block, it is what this program does for invalid codes, I think < 1285983876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Yes that is what I mean by overlong encodings < 1285985363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285986446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1285986457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the one hand, the system didn't just roll over and give me someone else's grades < 1285986487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, it did display an error message with a stack trace, and my understanding is that that's the wrong way to configure web services < 1285987337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axioms! < 1285987629 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285987675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if this is accurate, but I just described Objective-C as a mashup of Smalltalk and C, and that the whole is less than the sum of its parts < 1285987684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just added "(Note: I never learned Objective-C, so that last thought is possibly unfounded)" < 1285987738 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@194-236-14-54.customer.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285988016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: objective-c is an alright language. < 1285988024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not creative but it's well-designed < 1285988033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it inherits smalltalk's excellent object model < 1285988078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I've kind of fallen in love with CLOS-style object models < 1285988088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares to be slapped < 1285988155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have never fallen in love with anything. < 1285988166 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285988169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo -----### < 1285988192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make sideways glances at the cleavage of languages over the period of a few days. :P < 1285988383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sidelong < 1285988547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do you have any other interests besides programming?" "I like to read and watch fiction" < 1285988581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in full-on giggle mode < 1285988587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because to me the word fiction means novels because I don't know what words mean < 1285988635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm laughing because it's a very general statement that applies to pretty much everyone < 1285988680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not to illiterate persons before TV I guess < 1285988761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then it's going to be s/read/listen to/ < 1285988790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plays used to be popular entertainment, you know. As well as story-telling. < 1285989043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just wish we had Hamlet on the TV every day. :P < 1285989127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, WTF < 1285989207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is webchat.freenode.net down? < 1285989280 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you touch yourself at night. < 1285989330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels sorry for anyone who won't allow themselves to < 1285989352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : STOP IT! STOP TURNING EVERYTHING SEXUAL < 1285989387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285989387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1285989392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's joke is meant to be sexual < 1285989393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cliche < 1285989397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1285989399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ... you just ... lose < 1285989409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But last time Gregor said something like that, and I responded, you called me out < 1285989418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ♥ clichés. < 1285989420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Unicode. < 1285989428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely ♥ Unicode. < 1285989454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ? Unicode too *ducks* < 1285989473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ♥ the compose key < 1285989476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ♥ diæresis marks and ligatures. I can never think of a word with a diæresis when I need one ... < 1285989485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1285989504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285989512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :……… < 1285989522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good way to tell if you're using fixed-width or not < 1285989548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fix your encoding you fool. < 1285989560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No! It is integral that oerjan sees Unicode as ?. < 1285989563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is part of our culture. < 1285989564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You naïve simpleton. < 1285989565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fix your sarcasm-detector you fool. < 1285989566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our culture is a shabby one. < 1285989579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan does actually see unicode as ? < 1285989591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can never think of a /contextuälly-relevant/ diæresis when I need one. < 1285989602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ⁵ < 1285989613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP USING DIAERESES ON WORDS THAT DON'T EITHER HAVE HYPHENS IN THEM OR ARE OFTEN WRITTEN WITH ONE < 1285989620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably pikhq was meaning that oerjan should fix the encoding he *sees*, not sends, and Gregor misinterpreted this < 1285989625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more you know ****************=> < 1285989630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1285989633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===========================* < 1285989634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1285989649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a big-ass encyclopedia. What a big ass-encyclopedia. What a big assencyclopædia < 1285989680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a bigassencyclopædia. < 1285989689 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Encyclopedia Copronomicon < 1285989725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Coppro-nomicon < 1285989730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1285989730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285989733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coppro-nomic-on < 1285989736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro plays nomic < 1285989739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG SONCPIRACY < 1285989742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285989745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :son c piracy < 1285989748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :son coppro piracy < 1285989748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG SONGPIRACY < 1285989751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is someone's son < 1285989756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is a member of the pirate party < 1285989759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know that. < 1285989762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG THE COINCIDENCES < 1285989769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS SO METAPHYSIC < 1285989782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes... yes we do :P < 1285989822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through long and tortured logic < 1285989933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Eliezer Yudkowsky writing fanfiction is somehow using my brain power as CPU for the seed AI he's designed. < 1285989940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yudkowsky's fanfiction < 1285990790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/plotutils/ : GNU totally does not name things in intentionally ambiguous ways. < 1285990814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan. < 1285990895 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285990953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plotu tils! Plo Tutils! < 1285990972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tutils of the Palestinian Liberation Organization? < 1285990976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285990978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1285990984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRA Tutils! < 1285991069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're quite IRAte < 1285991177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRA Tutus < 1285991518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mess with my tutus < 1285992090 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285992105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I only need to do one problem for this chapter < 1285992113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the choices is knapsack stuff < 1285992117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard could it be? < 1285992170 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1285992178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP? < 1285992184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EVERYONE: DO NOT NITPICK JOKES) < 1285992195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("HOW HARD" "NP" IS FUNNY, NO MATTER -- SO SHUT UP) < 1285992204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DO NOT SAY "BUT NP-HARD") < 1285992241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically I made no errors anyway. A joke well-executed. < 1285992465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea of a way of UTF-8 parsing: [Step 1] Control characters [Step 2] Decode numbers [Step 3] Unicode to unicode conversion [Step 4] Render output < 1285992487 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1285992518 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285992529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: except for the error of a paranoid implosion? < 1285992595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Implicatory! Verisimilitude was EXTINCT; by then, at least. < 1285992651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicatorial sesquipedalism < 1285992872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, aren't we the orthodontist! Stricken, quickly, he fell; his loquaciousness now evaporated, he graduated losing, summa cum laude, and expired. < 1285992998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION straightens alise's teeth with the saucepan ===\__/ < 1285993117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I created your being; post hoc ergo propter hoc axiomatic, fallacies embedded into the velvet that defines you, it; machinery whirrs and purrs and ASCII saucepans confers. < 1285993124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1285993126 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.114.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285993127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1285993244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All homework done < 1285993275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confers with his saucepan ===\__/ *OUCH* < 1285993349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing about tex4ht: Makes fairly-nice HTML output from LaTeX. < 1285993362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad thing about tex4ht: Main developer is dead, last release was a few days before his death ... < 1285993462 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there C compilers that cannot turn off trigraphs inside of a string? If there are some common ones, it might be necessary to add a option to Enhanced CWEB to tell it to change ? in a string to \? (and also to replace high characters with their escape sequence, if that might also be necessary) < 1285993616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fecking trigraphs X_X < 1285993625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most C compilers have the ability to turn off trigraphs /entirely/ < 1285993724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In GCC they're off unless you ask for them) < 1285993747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely hopes he doesn't get in trouble for the ticket he just submitted < 1285993758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I recently received an error message. The cause isn't important (I was experimenting < 1285993758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if I could do something I shouldn't be able to, but was unable to do it),..." < 1285993782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a white-hat hacker." < 1285993785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He's a hacker, lock 'im up!" < 1285993786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bad thing about tex4ht: Main developer is dead, last release was a few days before his death ... < 1285993791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and I still can't find anywhere to put the body. < 1285993844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1285993847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did he die? < 1285993852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doesn't say. < 1285993861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "unexpectedly" < 1285993872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does somebody young enough to be writing tex4ht die expectedly though :P < 1285994141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He died from latex poisoning. < 1285994148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs to #ubuntu -> < 1285994153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OERJAN CAN'T CATCH M-- < 1285994250 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If needed, you could create a TeX macro package that allows output to both DVI and HTML (and possibly also XML and other formats too if required) < 1285994552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u run thru #ubuntu < 1285994688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, that's what tex4ht is :P (AFAIK) < 1285994877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think so. (And I think tex4ht is designed for LaTeX, anyways) What I meant is writing a macro package that you use commands in it that can make it work for both DVI and HTML and other formats output. < 1285995058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So if you don't use LaTeX, watch out! < 1285995218 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1285995295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, trigraphs. The only thing worse than digraphs. < 1285995321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. Digraphs aren't *that* bad. < 1285995328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trigraphs are just head-poundingly awful. < 1285995359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX trigraphs are very useful, even though C trigraphs are bad and useless. < 1285995382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C digraphs are handled during tokenization, unlike trigraphs. < 1285995386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing worse and monographs. < 1285995388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making them automatically an improvement. < 1285995412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, trigraphs are basically done via sed before compilation) < 1285995419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and/are/ X_X < 1285995456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/is/? Idonno, that whole sentence was grammatically dubious. < 1285995464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nonsense. < 1285995488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do suppose C digraphs are better than C trigraphs in that way. < 1285995539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digraphs at least don't cause completely unexpected parses. < 1285995616 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But TeX trigraphs are a bit different, because you can use them for many purposes and you can even change how trigraphs are parsed by changing the category codes. < 1285995792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the utfeight.tex program will convert numbers to hex and then make them into trigraphs send to output file, and then input them again (this time TeX will parse the trigraphs), in order to make definitions for all active characters which can be used as part of UTF-8 codes. < 1285995976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely quote from wikipedia < 1285995980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"more realistically, CERN's Large Hadron Collider is the subject of a CERN-produced rap video" < 1285996006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a variant of TeX in one day when I get a chance to do so. What programs would I need to do so? One change I want to add is to make a new trigraph which forces the next character to be treated as a certain character code. For example ^^xd? will make a ? which is a active character. < 1285996071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another change I want to make is removing the \outer command. < 1285996142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And adding new kind of definitions, such as \idef \progdef \catdef < 1285996163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: more realistic than what? :P < 1285996189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know! < 1285996190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does \outer do zzo38? < 1285996204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more realistic than Stephen Hawking MCing maybe < 1285996222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The \outer command prevents a command from occuring as part of a macro expansion. < 1285996260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can be worked around using \write and \input although I think it is better that the \outer command is not there at all) < 1285996309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I want is to allow \long to be prepended to the use of a macro instead of only allowing it prepending a definition of a macro. < 1285996585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAHAHAHAHAH < 1285996590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEED SWAP SPACE < 1285996595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1285996698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a way to read in a list, box, and tokens, in ways that they can then be processed by other TeX codes. And a command \glueset to access the glue set value of a box. < 1285996862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. Bye. < 1285996868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1285997496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as: \convbox or something like that. < 1285998427 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285999145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trigraphs in TeX are even usable to create trigraphs, example: \message{^^5e^5e} --> ^ < 1285999200 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\message{^^5e^5e^21} --> ! < 1285999516 0 :Slereah!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-126-228.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1286001292 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286001732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Etruscans < 1286001784 0 :Etruscans!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1286002655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1286003483 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286003506 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286005734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I am, in fact, a member of the pirate party < 1286006051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have to do if you are a member? < 1286006063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1286006106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the meaning of being a member, then? < 1286006118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think they're going to try to have me chair the online meetings on the basis that I seem to be good at this thin (they're not the online ones. The president of the math society at waterloo wanted me installed as speaker after she'd known me for a week and a half) < 1286006124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to indicate support < 1286006124 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286006140 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286006175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe in future...? < 1286006221 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: O, did you ever read mathNEWS? < 1286006303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do you know of mathNEWS? < 1286006355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, being a member carries benefits that you might expect of any similar organization - I have a vote < 1286006359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember where/when I first figured out about it, or how. < 1286006387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've never been to UW? < 1286006399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1286006400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1286006465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never been to UW. < 1286006506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, yes, I know of mathNEWS. I even wrote two articles in the most recent issue and contributed a significant portion of the profQUOTES < 1286006522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1286006653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you write about? < 1286006738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, I found a copy of the articles now and I think I know which one you might have written) < 1286006798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1286006839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lol someone who reads the website.. < 1286006856 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that you know then about the E is for Idiot issue? < 1286006895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you write the article titled "Reminder: Games Nights Exist"? (I guess based on the information I have) < 1286006917 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, that was one < 1286006938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one should also be obvious if you /whois me < 1286006970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I did use the WHOIS command. I also saw "coppro!~scshunt" so I guess, and then did WHOIS to check more < 1286007087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know about the E is for Idiot issue. What is the date for that issue? < 1286007255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1286007266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it there was an article entitled E is for Idiot, that got them sued < 1286007277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently it was defamatory < 1286007304 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they settled on posting an apology to their website, which they consider doing almost nothing because the website is not designed to be useful < 1286007312 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so virtually no one reads it < 1286007375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, pencil policy is hilariou < 1286007377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hilarious < 1286007650 0 :Kordalien!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1286008020 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286008228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question about your opinion about code generation in Enhanced CWEB using interpreted C codes. The question is what commands you would find useful to be built-in that can be accessed by C interpreter, for code generation? < 1286008284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recompiling a specific function < 1286008337 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give an example? < 1286008374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, suppose I have a function and change its definition; it would be nice to tell the compiler to recompile it < 1286008381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simple functions, even from within the interpreter itself < 1286008589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite understand. Can you give a more specific example of what you are trying to do? < 1286009288 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C compiler does not work that way? Enhanced CWEB cannot change the way the C compiler works! < 1286010413 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286010630 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286010702 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-2-65.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1286011603 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1286012075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1286013811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286014074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:25:06 0.005646564 bits according to my calculator ← does lambdabot not do logs? < 1286014082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type log < 1286014083 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1286014114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, um, anything wrong with using a calculator still? < 1286014148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it requires that you reach for the calculator and hit buttons on that, then type the result into the channel. < 1286014183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, he didn't say he meant a physical calculator. Could have been dc or such < 1286014209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286014236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah, well some other computer based calculator then < 1286014323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you know that bc was traditionally implemented in dc? < 1286014332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1286014346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and bc has log < 1286014352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I can't find it in dc < 1286014358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this scares me < 1286014366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As part of an extra library which IIRC is written in bc. < 1286014405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, still, writing an infix calculator in bc is probably indicative of multiple things in DSM < 1286014425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1286014427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in dc" < 1286014429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1286014452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt profoundly that bc was ever written in raw dc. < 1286014463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you mean then < 1286014465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc doesn't have anything near the I/O capabilities. < 1286014505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia: < 1286014507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an example, here is an implementation of the Euclidean algorithm to find the GCD: < 1286014507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc -e '??[dSarLa%d0 Gregor: I am, in fact, a member of the pirate party < 1286031744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure he meant the male part < 1286031748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54:11 What do you have to do if you are a member? < 1286031748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54:23 nothing < 1286031748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:55:06 What is the meaning of being a member, then? < 1286031748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1286031792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:47 you've never been to UW? < 1286031792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's in high school < 1286031851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this "mathNEWS" is hopelessly shoddy -- < 1286031853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Indeed, vi is nothing more than a wrapper script for the command ex, which is itself a wrapper for ed" < 1286031877 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, though < 1286031883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1286031885 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure what u mean < 1286031893 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF COURSE IT IS < 1286031898 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ed is a wrapper for cat < 1286031899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ ls -l $(which vi) < 1286031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2010-09-12 03:11 /usr/bin/vi -> /etc/alternatives/vi < 1286031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/vi < 1286031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2010-09-12 03:11 /etc/alternatives/vi -> /usr/bin/vim.tiny < 1286031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/vim.tiny < 1286031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 754744 2010-04-16 14:33 /usr/bin/vim.tiny < 1286031902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/ex < 1286031904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2010-09-12 03:11 /usr/bin/ex -> /etc/alternatives/ex < 1286031906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/ex < 1286031908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2010-09-12 03:11 /etc/alternatives/ex -> /usr/bin/vim.tiny < 1286031910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex is a *symlink* to vi on most systems. < 1286031916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a wrapper script. and not the other way around < 1286031919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286031922 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because they did < 1286031924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and furthermore ex is an entirely separate editor, nothing to do with ed, merely inspired by it < 1286031925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv ex vi < 1286031941 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they did mv ex ed < 1286031946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: if you're trying to troll, it's incredibly boring and obvious; if you're actually serious, you're just stupid < 1286031953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're trying to make a joke, it isn't funny) < 1286031960 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you ever think i was serious with that? < 1286032025 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to reconstruct the thought process < 1286032039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you've said similarly silly things before :) < 1286032041 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it "wow, that guy cheater99 TOTALLY doesn't know the difference between ed and ex!" < 1286032042 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1286032050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second :P < 1286032057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trolled! < 1286032057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'm *fairly* sure they're just < 1286032059 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286032063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) using a lenient definition of "script", and < 1286032077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) apparently not required to actually look at ex to decide what it does < 1286032092 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're just trolling too. < 1286032097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The whole article is an unfunny joke; it provides an "implementation" of ed in Python that just reads input up until a "q" and outputs ?.) < 1286032104 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, vim is just a wrapper around vi with some added bash scripts < 1286032106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure the introductory sentences are serious. < 1286032112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emacs is a wrapper around screen and vim. < 1286032146 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, if you hadn't heard yet, erlang is just a wrapper around lisp < 1286032164 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, lisp is a wrapper around haskell, and haskell is a wrapper around erlang < 1286032169 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one has solved that problem yet < 1286032300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang is also a wrapper around BANCStar < 1286032418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok i take it back, prof quotes more than makes up for it (i will not support your insipid logotype capitalisation) < 1286032438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i seem to use insipid to mean much more than it actually does :) < 1286032516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was giving a tour of the observatory one day and ended up explaining how the stars are actually like the Sun, just really far away. It was great to catch people up from the 15th century." ;; i have had to do this more than i would like < 1286032536 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1286032892 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286033011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanerer < 1286033027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION oerjaneers < 1286033269 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: see, you got the hang of it < 1286033325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286033331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1286033348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, apparently MI2's soundtrack WAS actually designed for MT-32. < 1286033356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just the intro music that sounds a bit odd. < 1286033436 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roland mt-32? < 1286033438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1286033445 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1286033450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: sure, just like the MI1 soundtrack < 1286033455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the Space Quest soundtracks < 1286033463 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i was thinking mission impossible 2 < 1286033465 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not monkey island < 1286033466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1286033469 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i know about monkey island < 1286033473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! WRONG 8 WEEKS < 1286033645 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ohh < 1286033646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: (Especially the special remapping ones where they change the entire sound, which a *lot* of games do.) < 1286033648 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok got it < 1286033655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286033656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I'm sure it's *possible*, but you sure as heck can't get ScummVM to do it. < 1286033662 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :233| Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286033662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is basically the only reason to do it. < 1286033678 0 :Harpyon!~Harpyon@ti0031a380-0251.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1286033686 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1286033693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait now it _reused_ the number D: < 1286033694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Pirated MT-32 ROMs (or you could *manually* remove them... !) plus the emulator does a very good job. < 1286033700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't sound analogue though. < 1286033701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 233 < 1286033701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when? < 1286033705 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :233| Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286033727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 233 for both Vorpal and last Phantom_Hoover quote < 1286033737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 pikhq, Okinawan? Wtf is that < 1286033778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 232 < 1286033782 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :232| It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! WRONG 8 WEEKS < 1286033785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 233 < 1286033796 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :233| Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1286033798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 234 < 1286033801 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 12/13 < 1286033804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think HackEgo may have something in the DSM < 1286033805 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1286033807 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :234| dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1286033831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if i remember how to use revert < 1286033838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um how so? < 1286033847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1286033849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1286033855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought your addquote line was actually one of my quote requests < 1286033859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HackEgo _overwrote_ the original 233 it seems < 1286033866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1286033899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like all the quotes finally got in, anyhow < 1286033908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FOR NOW) < 1286034044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end of LeChuck's Revelation is sweet < 1286034257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1286034325 0 :Sgeo!~ubuntu@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286034364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and, if you hadn't heard yet, erlang is just a wrapper around lisp <-- ITYM PROLOG. sheesh don't you know ANYTHING? < 1286034381 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1286034388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear whatever is causing window borders etc. to just die: Fuck you < 1286034397 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't hit me mommy :( < 1286034406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats cheater99 -----### < 1286034408 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: on ubuntu? < 1286034413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO, I'M NOT YOUR MOMMY < 1286034424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1286034430 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's fucking compiz < 1286034437 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst piece of software in existence < 1286034451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiz is terribly designed but i have an intel gpu so it just works :P < 1286034458 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1286034462 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still gave me that shit < 1286034466 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for sgeo < 1286034466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha < 1286034478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so i probably just haven't given it enough time :p < 1286034493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes his visual effects < 1286034503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to deal with this, though < 1286034512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, what? you have the wobbly resize and everything turned on? < 1286034515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1286034516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if this is also somehow related to Firefox crashing < 1286034520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just the defaults < 1286034527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal or whatever's above that < 1286034534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extra < 1286034535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal < 1286034551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the only visual effect is... minimising and restoring < 1286034569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, shadows and non-active window semitransparency < 1286034570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's it < 1286034572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(titlebar) < 1286034581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(barely noticeable effect) < 1286034590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My terminal stopped being transparent! < 1286034598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'll live < 1286034600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1286034604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANSPARENT TERMINALS ARE THE WORST FUCKING IDEA EVER < 1286034610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like translucent fucking paper < 1286034622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you feel cool < 1286034625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Roland MT-32 and CM-32L control and pcm roms for use with DOSBox and Munt" ;; yesplz < 1286034635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but then you can spy on people when you're reading! < 1286034858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The next thing we have is "Movies That Don't Have Sequels" Movie Night! We're showing Pirates of the Caribbean and The Matrix.]] < 1286035054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends to see Highlander included in such lists too < 1286035065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T WANT THE FUCKING SPECIAL EDITION I WANT THE ORIGINAL OCTOBER 1990 SOMI < 1286035150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only saw approx. the ending of The Matrix, and the two sequels < 1286035185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1286035192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've watched two terrible movies < 1286035195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spoiled a really good one < 1286035197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1286035646 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286035649 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1286035706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ho < 1286035744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*de < 1286035890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAH < 1286035899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: relatedly, Games That Don't Have More Than N Sequels < 1286035900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notifications are no longer semitransparent < 1286035905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OH NO < 1286035916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots at the zombies following Sgeo  < 1286035921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games That Don't Have More Than 2 (or 1 if you're boring and anal or Ron Gilbert) Sequels: Monkey Island < 1286035933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're completely invisible when the cursor is over them < 1286035937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games That Probably Don't Have More Than 1 Sequel For Someone: Fallout < 1286035939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SO WHAT < 1286036126 0 :Kordalien!~chatzilla@adsl-71-141-89-187.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286036371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1286036398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/zPEGs.jpg < 1286036449 0 :Kordalien!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286037042 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1286037078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1286037088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a magic dance magic dance magic dance < 1286037094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts singing < 1286037111 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-206-109.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286037191 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just starting to rain here :-( < 1286037454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember... < 1286037454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherever you go... < 1286037455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On sea or on land, < 1286037455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't ever hide < 1286037455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Largo LeGrande! < 1286037656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 234| dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 pikhq, Okinawan? Wtf is that < 1286037685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quoted wikipedia saying so < 1286037700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah oerjan realised that you dipshit < 1286037764 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286037832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://miwiki.net/images/Mi2se_comparison.jpg ;; what did the redraw do to the poor man's nose... < 1286038232 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1286038236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1286038344 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1286038369 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1286040153 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the quote is funnier that way, stop complaining :) < 1286040386 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1286040541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is more line-noise-y? J or dc? < 1286040574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither are line-noisey. < 1286040577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have clearly never seen line noise < 1286040589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, J code is more comprehensible than dc code. < 1286040693 0 :zeotrope!~vib@bas3-kitchener06-1096649602.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1286040953 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286041899 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like J; it's not open source :-/ < 1286042324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boo hoo." The libraries are at least viewable-source. < 1286042329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to reimplement it... < 1286042359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/zakmckracken/zak-fmtowns.png ;; Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders, English FM Towns version < 1286042364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/zakmckracken/zak-fmtownsj.png ;; Japanese FM Towns version. < 1286042365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Groan* < 1286042382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Real screenshots.) < 1286042431 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say J? < 1286042441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes they did. < 1286042448 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how does line noise look? < 1286042463 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/zeotrope/j7-src < 1286042475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not like a bunch of letters, a few punctuation chars and a lot of []s! < 1286042489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more like perl code? < 1286042510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a lot of control characters, most likely < 1286042510 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an old version of the J interpreter < 1286042517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: ah, the first version? < 1286042523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ... the first version was one file < 1286042529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Viewable-source" < 1286042530 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeesh < 1286042534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: where did you get this? < 1286042539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: also, fuck formatting changes < 1286042541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows CE is also "viewable-source" < 1286042545 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterloo APL/J archives < 1286042552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: awesome. now undo your lame changes :D < 1286042558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, as in you can download it freely and it has the files right there < 1286042560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can change them < 1286042561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works < 1286042567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just can't redistribute changes. < 1286042568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286042569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1286042573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributing a patch should be legal < 1286042582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... whoo qmail-style development < 1286042593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only actually closed-source bit is the interpreter itself and the Java UI < 1286042611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a lot of the forms (UI) stuff is part of the lib too so that'd be sourced as well < 1286042618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who use shitty licenses are the worst kind of people :P < 1286042627 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in j7.01 this will be the case < 1286042638 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gtk and web frontend will be written in J < 1286042641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there is no license, it's freeware < 1286042645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: omg, there's gonna be a gtk frontend? < 1286042649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: <3 < 1286042658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K has cooler UI stuff though ;) < 1286042664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K3 that is < 1286042670 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K has a lot of cool things < 1286042680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K4/K5 are abominations of databasery :< < 1286042684 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad its license sucks even more < 1286042691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well < 1286042698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsl still has the binaries :P < 1286042709 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't those binaries have a time limit? < 1286042712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not in a linked path < 1286042715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: no < 1286042721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the full k3 < 1286042727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least... i never found a limitation < 1286042728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manual, too < 1286042735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux, windows and i think solaris or something weird like that < 1286042735 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll take a look < 1286042740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the windows binaries in wine work way better than the linux ones < 1286042741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for gui < 1286042748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: as i said, pretty sure it's in an unlinked directory < 1286042755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the megabreds guys linked me < 1286042809 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never liked Q < 1286042821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: wait, why will it be 701? < 1286042824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 602 now < 1286042832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of unreleased/pay-only revisions? < 1286042848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a weird versioning scheme? < 1286042860 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, I'm not sure how they are named < 1286042875 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the old interpreter I showed you is called version 7 < 1286042880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly silly yet probably good idea for running Windows programs that don't work well in WINE (old games using obscure Direct2D features, for instance): have a Windows VM for qemu in QCOW. Create a new QCOW image using that one as the base. Install. < 1286042880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/ ;; here's a big directory of (official) k stuff < 1286042886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a k3 binray there somewhere < 1286042894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, per-app virtual machines not using unreasonable space. < 1286042946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just use Xen to virtualise Windows! MWAHAHAHA-- < 1286042996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, to do that, you need to be using a recent CPU, and qemu built to use Xen. < 1286042999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: i'm trying to find k3 now :) < 1286043007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OR JUST USE PLAIN XEN MWAHAHA < 1286043011 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, me too < 1286043021 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Arthur Whitney's C style < 1286043022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: if all else fails i can try and get in touch with the guy who linked me. < 1286043049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No source license handy, sadly. < 1286043058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MWAHAHAHA < 1286043066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: have you seen the k->english code? < 1286043067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awesome < 1286043075 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? link? < 1286043080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: i'll try and find it < 1286043090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: basically it replaces verbs with what they do and does a few adjective changes < 1286043091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite amusing < 1286043099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the code itself is incomprehensible :P < 1286043108 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a non K-er :P < 1286043117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: to a mortal < 1286043125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have fun fighting Windows update. < 1286043133 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find J quite readable, but K pushes it with the overloading < 1286043140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here's the thing: we use Windows 2000 for it. THERE ARE NO UPDATES < 1286043145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: tbh i've written a bit of k myself using the manual < 1286043149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: the gui stuff is amazingly cool < 1286043150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 95, depending on what works better. < 1286043159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have fun getting hax0rd ;) < 1286043164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: every value has properties < 1286043172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah cuz you'd put it on the net of course. < 1286043182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No known vulnerabilities for a fully-patched version of either, because NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. < 1286043186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: like every value has its own dictionary...directory...hash table < 1286043190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact every value has a path to it from the root < 1286043190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for in Internet Explorer. < 1286043193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object filesystem < 1286043194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who uses that shit? < 1286043198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, every object has below it a GUI directory < 1286043206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you specify what kind of control it should show as and actions and the like < 1286043216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can have lists, and specify how they should show, as a form or a spreadsheet or whatever < 1286043218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And anyways: totally totally behind iptables, even if it *is* on the net. < 1286043218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just show them < 1286043220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really cool < 1286043224 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that, it was called a K-tree or something < 1286043228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286043237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/k/view.k ;; K tree viewer :P < 1286043247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blah..x stuff is the gui stuff < 1286043279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/papers/spreadsheet.htm spreadsheets are stupidly simple since it's basically built-in :P < 1286043299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: anyway windows is unquestionably the best platform for using K on, WINE works fine too. < 1286043304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the gui < 1286043445 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why must all the modern APLs be closed < 1286043448 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1286043458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: A+! < 1286043463 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+ doesn't count < 1286043463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MOST TOTALLY AWESOME APL DERIVATIVE EVER < 1286043467 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1286043470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha why not? i sort of agree but < 1286043473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interested in hearing your reasoning < 1286043480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+ amuses me because of the ... conventional libraries < 1286043484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nine parameters bullshit < 1286043485 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the character set for one < 1286043504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more APLthentic :P < 1286043508 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it lacks a lot of "modern" stuff < 1286043516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm like what? < 1286043520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good gui support? < 1286043531 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries ya < 1286043536 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even semantics of the language < 1286043543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1286043544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example? < 1286043586 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exceptions? < 1286043586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: grah, you have got me looking for k3! < 1286043595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, exceptions in what sense? < 1286043613 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like proper error checking < 1286043621 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nit-picking < 1286043625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in non-local control flow? < 1286043629 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anything that applies to APL < 1286043632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-local, imperative control flow? < 1286043637 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1286043638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say that's not a thing to brag about having! < 1286043644 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gotos < 1286043650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what exceptions are < 1286043657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still non-local, imperative control flow < 1286043663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which breaks like 3 out of 3 rules of how array programming works < 1286043673 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they are useful.. < 1286043679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(functional, not imperative, no "control flow" as such) < 1286043689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: not that useful imo. < 1286043690 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are explicit conditionals < 1286043697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that i'll grant < 1286043803 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm A+ has a lot of things I never knew.. < 1286043837 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a rank operator? < 1286043885 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it still use APL bracket syntax < 1286043892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1286043897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: k has no rank :) < 1286043899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplicity! < 1286043915 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rank is simplicity < 1286043929 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalizing a hard concept into one operator < 1286043932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: no, k literally has no replacement for it < 1286043935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't do that >:) < 1286043952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i understand; i may be wrong < 1286043971 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I believe you are correct < 1286043980 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I have seen of K code < 1286043986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THAT AN INSULT MY FRIEND < 1286044010 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL FIGHT! < 1286044096 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x@>#:'x < 1286044110 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's K for sorting strings by length < 1286044125 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears that #:' does each length < 1286044138 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there must be some sort of selection < 1286044155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just magic so there < 1286044232 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J version is better imo: (/: #&>) < 1286044251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd say that, Jacist < 1286044256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds like racist, coincidence? < 1286044262 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all.. < 1286044262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare jihad < 1286044319 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on J? < 1286044327 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J..Jihad..zomg < 1286044331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286044339 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all so clear now < 1286044339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JJihad, J^2ihad < 1286044959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE IS K < 1286045005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: btw http://www.nsl.com/papers/instant.htm, starts out normal before he starts freaking transmitting code to be executed and then *editing objects that result and re-sending them* < 1286045008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have already seen it < 1286045019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure exactly how secure it is :P < 1286045135 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm impressed at how much K stuff there is < 1286045148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: most of it his :P < 1286045160 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya :P < 1286045164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's his name again, i've forgotten < 1286045168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steven A...? < 1286045169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steven Apter? < 1286045257 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1286045262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: http://www.nsl.com/links.html he has quite an esolang passion if you grep /Esoteric/ < 1286045265 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stevan < 1286045270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's some esoteric language implementations on nsl.com... < 1286045289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda, jot, zot, 01, 10, befunge-93, false, befreak, brainfuck < 1286045294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in K ofc < 1286045421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: if olegfink was online i'd just ask him for the link < 1286045470 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the J/K oleg? < 1286045488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: is there a specific J/K oleg? < 1286045491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it may be. < 1286045495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/k/excel.k ;; excel v1 < 1286045497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/k/excel/excel2.k ;; excel v2 < 1286045499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW MICROSOFT < 1286045523 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goggles.. < 1286045532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: see bottom of page for actual VB macros for excel :D < 1286045538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use with k for ... i have no idea what this does < 1286045545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/k/excel/ < 1286045552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe k.xls holds the key < 1286045712 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k.xls has a macro called kload, I'm assuming this is an interface to excel < 1286045734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mind boggles. < 1286045740 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it to write K in excel < 1286045743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bind moggles < 1286045749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: i think it's two-way?? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS THIS < 1286045750 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to manipulate excel from K < 1286045763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the k obvs parses formulas... < 1286045794 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, small lexer there < 1286045834 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parser < 1286045836 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and .. < 1286045839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something < 1286045892 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also once saw K in K < 1286045922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/k/wolfram.k < 1286045934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which steven rewrites A New Kind of Science in three lines < 1286045941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then gives it a GUI in three < 1286045945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, basically two < 1286045952 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's K < 1286046006 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a descendant of APL < 1286046015 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we care? < 1286046033 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one said you do < 1286046122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: we have cared about J/K for a while. < 1286046141 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh ok < 1286046141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year or two in fact < 1286046148 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a word play < 1286046148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/read.k ;; the ->english < 1286046160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/papers/kisntlisp.htm seems to imply it turns < 1286046165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : +(#:'=v[;1];?v[;1]) < 1286046165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1286046166 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are you gonna suddenly scream out JUST KIDDING!! < 1286046166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : flip(count each group v[;1];unique v[;1]) < 1286046168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no. < 1286046175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be stupid. < 1286046179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286046181 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-188-222.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286046206 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because of that, it would also be completely unexpected. which would make it smart again. < 1286046214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1286046218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't < 1286046224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1286046254 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sneeze* < 1286046258 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a cold : ( < 1286046287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is COLS AND HEARTLESS < 1286046310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*COLD < 1286046313 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so you're tabular? < 1286046317 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a similar one in J, converts J to "english" < 1286046323 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or haskell imo < 1286046334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you run a local instance of squid proxy? < 1286046357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no < 1286046360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: lol < 1286046365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you? < 1286046529 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286046534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1286046540 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works perfectly for fixing my internet woes < 1286046544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define < 1286046552 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use mobile internet (temporarily) and they have this transparent proxy < 1286046564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used mobile internet for over a month < 1286046571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it minifies html and recompresses images, and sometimes it returns empty responses in error < 1286046576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't compress images though or any of that bullshit < 1286046580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squid has an option for retrying that < 1286046583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just had a content filter, easily removed < 1286046586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you just call up) < 1286046589 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO: < 1286046595 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great for when you use multiple browsers < 1286046600 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to share a cache between them < 1286046603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1286046613 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also allows webpages to be prefetched < 1286047100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it seems to be fucking up dns too < 1286047112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i get squid complaining that there are no dns records for q.ebaystatic.com. < 1286047120 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have to think about getting a dns caching proxy too < 1286047131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.logarithmic.net/ghost.xhtml ;; click "random" a lot < 1286047132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1286047171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how come you're all into diagrams suddenly? < 1286047178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: er, I am? < 1286047182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else have i said about diagrams? < 1286047190 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were posting some diagram game last week i think < 1286047215 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you had to come up with the longest interconnected line or something like that and had hexagonal tiles < 1286047240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1286047243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no i didn't < 1286047247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be thinking of someone else < 1286047250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i have amnesia < 1286047328 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably my error < 1286047352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a aC C', 'a bC D', 'b aD C', 'b bD D', 'cacAAA', 'dacBBB', 'cbcBBB', 'dbcBBB', 'cadAAA', 'dadBBB', 'cbdBBB', 'dbdAAA', colors=['#fff', '#000', '#888', '#888', '#888', '#888', '#fff', '#000', '#000', '#000', '#fff', '#000', '#000', '#fff'] < 1286047355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tileset implementing rule 110 < 1286047374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colors doesn't work with the web version < 1286047375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1286047390 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen it < 1286047405 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wonder when his program knows that a tileset is "solved" < 1286047420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's filled the whole field, which is finite, presumably < 1286047425 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean this isn't regular at all that i know of: '11 1 ', '111 1 ' < 1286047426 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1286047431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's random < 1286047432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1286047436 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1286047444 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes it does backtracking < 1286047445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you get a different one each time < 1286047450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know when it decides to do that < 1286047453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: presumably if it figures out it can't fit something somewhere < 1286047454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1286047477 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe possibly not terminating? 'dDDDd-', 'ddDd-D', 'ddd--D' < 1286047517 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1286047524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1286047525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hates you :) < 1286047541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it may be impossible to do, or simply take a very long time < 1286047554 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286047575 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given that i'm only on a centrino, it's relatively NP-hard. < 1286047668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ... wat < 1286047678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst abuse of NP-hard ever :D < 1286047703 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's np-hard-to-disprove-on-a-slow-cpu < 1286048015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: wow he included ghost diagrams in his phd thesis < 1286048023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/thesis chapter 7 apparently < 1286048032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy 60 megabyte pdf batman :) < 1286048038 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: niiice < 1286048061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't get the hang of making nice patterns yet :( < 1286048194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh the same guy also wrote a GIMP plugin that does that awesome texture synthesis stuff < 1286048202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "oh look i just removed this object by coping some of the sky" and the like < 1286048249 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the least-power-path thing? < 1286048282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1286048298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer < 1286048302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the example pages < 1286048325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop recently introduced this and everyone called it magical < 1286048335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resynthesizer is slightly less polished but still pretty good < 1286048345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also part of his Ph.D. xD < 1286048418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , in a stunning burst of insanity, decides to code a stupid half-wiki < 1286048446 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's cooool < 1286048453 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1286048533 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this a looot: http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer/theming < 1286048554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1286048559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to press Enter! < 1286048567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On ShareKeyboard < 1286048571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press the other enter < 1286048611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are browsers so stupid that they can't embed a program inside a page < 1286048613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without like java crap < 1286048618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna say < 1286048632 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a test, this is only a test. ShareKeyboard is pretty awesome. Except for the lack of an Enter key... help me help me I can't say anything < 1286048647 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: don't get me started < 1286048656 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: every technology used by the internet is a failed piece of crap < 1286048667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = document.getElementById("editor").runApplication(preferences.editor, "-stdin"); foo.write(sometext); < 1286048668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1286048673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons why this doesn't work: < 1286048676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- shitty OSes are architectured shittily < 1286048685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- LOL EVERYBODY FAILS AT MAKING A SECURITY SYSTEM SO WE JUST STOP PEOPLE DOING USEFUL THINGS < 1286048687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- fuck everything < 1286048691 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to switch to stock keyboard to send that... although actually, in landscape mode, there's a share button < 1286048697 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, send button < 1286048733 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ < 1286048850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ... so instead i'll just implement my own editor component! BECAUSE I CLEARLY WANT TO DO THAT < 1286048860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the web. fuck it fuck it < 1286048880 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, fuck it < 1286048881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made some wiki software once that popped open your editor to edit pages, that was quite nice but only worked locally... < 1286048904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: and here's the monstrosity that did it: < 1286048917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pre-rendered dealie < 1286048917 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect java < 1286048919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not online < 1286048922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1286048931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edit link linked to a *localhost* with ?page=foo < 1286048931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1286048933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your localhost < 1286048936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ran a server < 1286048939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that listened for requests < 1286048941 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1286048941 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1286048944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and opened your editor < 1286048954 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like php and system() < 1286048956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd click the link on your external server, which would bounce back to localhost, which would open your editor and redirect you back < 1286048961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had an "edit" link that worked < 1286048977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you edited, saved, and pressed whatever hotkey you had to build and upload the site < 1286048987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code was a bit of a mess though, for the building bit < 1286048993 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing with WifiKeyboard, this is a test this is only a test. < 1286048999 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is much, much better for IRC < 1286049011 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no ads! < 1286049024 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't see the input on the computer screen, though < 1286049029 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can seem to backspace < 1286049036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Male infertility gene discovered" --BBC News < 1286049053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NATURAL SELECTION: THE MORE YOU KNOW =============* < 1286049093 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in Game mode, backspace only sends one backspace < 1286049130 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love, love, is a verb, love is a doing word < 1286049133 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ < 1286049138 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ə < 1286049140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up. < 1286049162 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never! < 1286049167 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahahahhahahahhh! < 1286049169 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes insane < 1286049250 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this will be useful at schoo, so I don't have to login to, say, Gmail to respond using a decent keybiard < 1286049265 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not even looking at my phone right now, so don't know if I'm typoing < 1286049273 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Wifi Keyboard doesn't show current input < 1286049416 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that it's not the most secure thing to use at school :/ < 1286049441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: How do you name things? I'm wondering if there is actually a trick t it. < 1286049446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1286049449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busyloop! < 1286049478 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in a greenfield project, in a legacy project, or when reverse-engineering? < 1286049478 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if someone else starts typing, the thing will complain about multiple input < 1286049503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Just... naming a spare-time project. Greenfield, sure. < 1286049512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any other kinds of projects. :p < 1286049522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean naming a project < 1286049534 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant code objects (classes, functions, variables) < 1286049547 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, i usually try to figure out if there has been some form of inspiration for this < 1286049571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to find the use for what i'm doing, and then express the gist of that < 1286049572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking maybe bonsai but that's a very tenuous link < 1286049577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bonsai trees are small, my software is small!) < 1286049584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems almost like i should save that name for something better. < 1286049600 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not great < 1286049614 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what software are you trying to name? < 1286049617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1286049648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pseudo-wiki (one user, designed for maintaining non-wiki-looking things) < 1286049656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primarily the byproduct of my serve NIH syndrome < 1286049798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: thinking about it, bonsai has a more tenuous link -- the links of pages to each other sort of form a branching tree < 1286049806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a graph, but whatever, you can imagine a link visualisation as a tree < 1286049851 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got a problem i see in many coders right now < 1286049859 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are thinking of the code and not about what it does < 1286049872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was doing a code review with this girl last friday < 1286049874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean i'm thinking too technically? dude, it's for my own use. < 1286049878 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i ask her what the application does < 1286049890 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so she says "the calculation class blah blah blah" < 1286049890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what it does: it maintains a website. < 1286049897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a pseudo-wiki (one user, designed for maintaining non-wiki-looking things) < 1286049900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty non-codey < 1286049903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i tell her ok, but i don't want to know about that, i want to know what the application is for < 1286049924 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes, you build up a configuration object and then pass it and blah blah blah" < 1286049927 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i tell her < 1286049933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i get it < 1286049935 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't want to know about any classes < 1286049953 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the most basic level, what does the application do, in the eyes of a user? < 1286049963 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it is a collection of form text input fields." < 1286049967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . < 1286049971 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped asking < 1286049987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1286049990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, i didn't do that. < 1286050005 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286050012 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1286050019 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides < 1286050029 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference if it's for your own use or for someone else's use? < 1286050040 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are big benefits to keeping projects public-ready < 1286050047 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. it makes you finish them so they work < 1286050060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. it makes you write the important bits like manuals etc which makes you actually rethink usefulness < 1286050072 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. it makes you package it nicely even if for your own use (useful down the line) < 1286050081 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. it makes you think differently about what's necessary < 1286050193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yeah, uh, you're no fun at all. < 1286050313 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kno :( < 1286050330 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is a personal wiki only/ < 1286050331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1286050337 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uni-user? < 1286050347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather monouser < 1286050453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes < 1286050466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: but infinite readers < 1286050471 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286050481 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've got a set of information which you maintain < 1286050485 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as your own brain map < 1286050496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already know what i want it to do < 1286050498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to name it. < 1286050498 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wolfram's brain? < 1286050504 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it? < 1286050505 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing < 1286050542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not really < 1286050550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a website with an edit button for one person :P < 1286050555 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're the only maintainer < 1286050562 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you make it nice and fine for yourself < 1286050578 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others can look at it but you're the only one who builds it and understands it < 1286050591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a real connotation with a banzai < 1286050599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"banzai" does not mean what you think it is < 1286050601 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every banzai belongs to only one person < 1286050609 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banzai tree ? < 1286050612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "ten thousand years". < 1286050614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "bonsai". < 1286050624 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286050650 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have misspelled it because xchat underlined bonzai and not banzai :( < 1286050720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's bonsai < 1286050724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more you know =========++* < 1286050726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no +s < 1286050756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bonsai it is then :P < 1286050762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the even harder part, deciding a language! < 1286050766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell i never get anything done? < 1286050849 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell < 1286050857 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftfy < 1286050908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286050976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i became too theoretical to appreciate haskell :) < 1286050984 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good < 1286050988 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now appreciate it practically < 1286050991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then went so crazy that i decided to forget type systems even existed < 1286050996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am now a lot less disturbed < 1286051015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, we aren't on a Haskell vs C slanging match, are we? < 1286051017 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how do you figure out your dns server now? < 1286051021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope < 1286051025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99 is on the haskell side < 1286051035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on my own side < 1286051046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( cheater99: i became too theoretical to appreciate haskell :) and then went so crazy that i decided to forget type systems even existed i am now a lot less disturbed) < 1286051057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: /etc/resolv.conf? < 1286051060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: write it in something that has a natural impedance match for that < 1286051072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: wonderful advice; useless, of course, but... < 1286051074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you go crazy enough to forget type systems? < 1286051080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might write it in rc :) < 1286051086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. natural graph structures, and taxonomies < 1286051087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because the things you see... in type theory... they scare you < 1286051091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you believe only in category theory? < 1286051092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never truly be whole again < 1286051107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what, you mean undecidable types? < 1286051111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh yeah you start becoming convinced that you should base a computational model on category theory < 1286051113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than type theory < 1286051121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usually when the cluster headaches start < 1286051126 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that file seems to work < 1286051134 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it get automagically updated by dialup software? < 1286051137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of awful things are there in type theory? < 1286051144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: DHCP will update it (I forget the client name) < 1286051150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes probably < 1286051165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you may simply want to remove all write bits from the file if the dialup thing does it < 1286051168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: here NetworkManager sets it < 1286051175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: btw NetworkManager can connect to a lot of 3G modems < 1286051180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the shitty dialup software < 1286051181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly recommended < 1286051200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu, at least, has a nice wizard for it < 1286051203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go to edit connections < 1286051211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you can set a custom dns server after that too < 1286051353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit I want to know the forbidden secrets of type theory alise. < 1286051362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IA IA IA < 1286051372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert Zalgo < 1286051377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot the diæreses! < 1286051390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IÄ IÄ IÄ! < 1286051395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better! < 1286051479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish wiki syntaxes sucked less. < 1286051484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: MAKE THEM SUCK LESS < 1286051504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sucks more: PMWiki markup or MediaWiki markup? < 1286051507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{tag ...} is a tag. Maybe I'll have keyword arguments. < 1286051512 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm < 1286051521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If a tree falls in a forest and noöne is around to hear it? < 1286051526 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i should try it then < 1286051541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what distro? < 1286051545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you not know PMWiki markup? < 1286051548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu! < 1286051593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: uninstall crappy dialup software, right click network icon, edit connections, mobile broadband, add, hope for the best < 1286051600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a surprising range of support < 1286051602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually Just Works < 1286051629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed not. < 1286051636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But I was implying their equal shittiness. < 1286051636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what TV Tropes uses. < 1286051645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1286051648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've edited TV Tropes exactly once. < 1286051659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least MediaWiki doesn't have 4 different kinds of link formats. < 1286051672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*internal link formats. < 1286051673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you go to edit it tells you not to say This Troper on the article page because they're making the pages not discussions any more. < 1286051678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is Wikipedian bullshit. < 1286051689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they have never browsed WardsWiki. < 1286051722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The discussion does get a little out of hand in both places... < 1286051724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i don't think i need to uninstall crappy dialup software < 1286051736 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw, i have ditched network manager for wicd < 1286051740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: if it's handling connections you probably do. < 1286051742 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :network manager was cancer for me < 1286051746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: also, i doubt wicd can do this. < 1286051748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your loss < 1286051751 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286051757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: networkmanager works fine :P < 1286051757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nm was very very bad for me < 1286051764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than shitty dialup software for sure < 1286051765 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wifi was dying all the time with nm < 1286051776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ain't wifi < 1286051813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: anyway just make your changes to /etc/resolv.conf, -w it < 1286051814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1286051823 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286051840 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i set up djbdns on my pc < 1286051845 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see how it works with retries < 1286051872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: djb software is great if you already have djb software, otherwise it brings along a lot of /services stuff :D < 1286051894 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have had it installed already < 1286051896 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough < 1286051906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i go through the package manager and install 100s of packages.) < 1286051912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1286051914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1286051935 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great because it shows you software you never thought existed < 1286051954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to know about more software, the existing set gives me enough pain :) < 1286051960 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise are you into audio stuff at all? < 1286051968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specify further < 1286052016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, making/recording music < 1286052021 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sounds < 1286052043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to do it, but i have no particular talent for it. < 1286052058 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "have no particular talent" < 1286052058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have discovered this lack of talent an amusing number of times, and like to blame software for it. < 1286052070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i have no particular inspiration for what to do to produce pleasing sounds. < 1286052084 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1286052087 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comes with practice < 1286052097 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not that difficult < 1286052103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i also have the extreme lack of patience to learn, say, an instrument. < 1286052129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way Look Around You lapses into horror at random. < 1286052131 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be about mastering finger techniques < 1286052137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: which episode? < 1286052146 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cool thing about this stuff is that there's a lot of technology backing it < 1286052153 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot about it is highly esoteric < 1286052157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calcium specifically, but the Boîte Diabolique also counts. < 1286052167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Helvetica scenario. < 1286052176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1286052180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i have this wonderful plan to create a wonderful music-composition software based on vague bits of interacting code; it will never happen < 1286052190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VwumVweeeeeeeeeee...VwumVweeeeeeeeeeeee < 1286052199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automaton music has been done to death < 1286052203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not that < 1286052216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a typical horizontal-is-time, vertical-is-tracks thing, but instead of waveforms it's little snippets of code < 1286052231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a huge library of, say, sine waves, midi, raw waveform, etc. functions < 1286052238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've just described a tracker < 1286052241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and filters that do effects and the like < 1286052243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you stack them with code < 1286052252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i've never seen anyone input code into a tracker < 1286052261 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screamtracker < 1286052265 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's very simple code < 1286052273 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a few most important things < 1286052275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the code i'm thinking of isn't :P < 1286052285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have, say, a whole "riff" in one block of code < 1286052307 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286052328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it also doesn't help that simple music bores me < 1286052329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cellular automaton music has been done to death ← it has? < 1286052333 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this stuff in uh.. < 1286052335 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name < 1286052339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making boring things bores me even more than consuming them. < 1286052343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, even by wolfram < 1286052344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1286052364 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmusic? something like that < 1286052364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work? < 1286052366 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-something < 1286052370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck? < 1286052375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i know there's another c- thin < 1286052377 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no < 1286052379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: and if you've ever tried creating might be < 1286052379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-sound < 1286052380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1286052381 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1286052382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMusic < 1286052399 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean c-sound < 1286052409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: most music composition software is ridiculously complex, i've noticed < 1286052421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five billion twiddle knobs, five billion preferences behind it, five billion different modes... < 1286052424 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmusic is the max/msp predecessor isn't it? < 1286052436 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286052441 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music software is generally gay < 1286052443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also: interfaces that look like real equipment and have stupid knobs and shit MAKE ME FUCKING RAGE) < 1286052450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And none of it implements the Boîtes Diabolique. < 1286052451 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all like ms word < 1286052452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MY COMPUTER DOES NOT FUCKING WORK LIKE THAT FUCK YOU) < 1286052460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a nice vim based build system, you don't get shit. < 1286052481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1286052482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you expect *musicians* to be able to competently use a well-designed UI? < 1286052486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1286052488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um. < 1286052498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a musician can use Ableton. < 1286052504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that musician can use literally any interface known to man. < 1286052514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ableton is the *craziest freaking thing* ever. < 1286052514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1286052530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even Reason is that bad. < 1286052547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Maybe I'll get ahold of the original Atari ST version of Logic :) < 1286052548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried getting a job at ableton < 1286052551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father has that. < 1286052554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an Atari to run it on! < 1286052568 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they replied with a code excercise < 1286052568 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i replied with code < 1286052572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something happened last night < 1286052577 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in python, which they wanted) < 1286052582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He now does music using Logic Studio on Windows Me. No joke.) < 1286052586 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they replied that my code is not up to their quality standards < 1286052597 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had someone at PSF check that code and find no problems with it < 1286052600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad said that if it weren't for him visiting the hospital where my step-mother's mom was, she would have died due to incompetent care < 1286052603 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1286052609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if maybe I should become a doctor < 1286052640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the thought of other people's lives being in my hands, but if I displace someone who might be less competent, it's a net win I think < 1286052648 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tell him to start using sonar < 1286052656 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's the nicest thing for windoze < 1286052659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i'm not on speaking terms with my father. < 1286052665 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :( < 1286052680 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: he uses windows me. i wouldn't talk to him either : P < 1286052687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he still uses Me because he never saw a reason to upgrade. also Cool Edit Pro and Sound Forge < 1286052692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i doubt he will ever change his setup, ever < 1286052700 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound forge ain't so bad < 1286052705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: *old* sound forge < 1286052707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the software is old < 1286052713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a look at Ableton's interface. < 1286052718 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a point to "it works" though < 1286052718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god... I am humbled. < 1286052728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat < 1286052730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1286052732 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ableton's interface is fairly shit < 1286052738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's even worse when you can click on it < 1286052746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the simplistic interface you normally see < 1286052749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the one for retards < 1286052755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't tweak anything despite it being almost impossible to use < 1286052756 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@188-22-118-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1286052758 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's worst is that they're trying to be a dj/live production thing < 1286052761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they suck at dj < 1286052763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get to enter the even worse parts of the interface < 1286052763 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck at live < 1286052766 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they suck at production < 1286052770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Autechre use Ableton in live performances < 1286052779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, uh, props to them because that shit sounds painfully impossible to me < 1286052797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if they use max/msp live too < 1286052804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW FAST CAN I MOVE THIS MOUSE TO THIS TEXT BOX AND TWEAK THE VALUE < 1286052805 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autechre is not something i'd consider an influence to myself < 1286052813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autechre are awesome < 1286052821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's awesome? < 1286052834 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i turn up the resonance knob, my tb303's sequencer slows down < 1286052835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Around You? < 1286052837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1286052841 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the batteries are half empty. < 1286052844 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome. < 1286052845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O GOD I AM BECOMING SGEO < 1286052847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://dailyjs.com/images/posts/autechre.jpg <-- Max/MSP patches by Autechre < 1286052850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1286052851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it have a colour picker? I DON'T KNOW < 1286052864 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done better < 1286052872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL ME WHILE I STILL HAVE SOME HOOVERITY LEFT < 1286052875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how so? < 1286052906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Name a language! < 1286052919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I basically want Logo with a bit more syntactic sugar. ...wait, I just said I want REBOL. < 1286052919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done patches full of text entry boxes < 1286052921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TAKE IT BACK I TAKE IT < 1286052925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's across like 3 screens. < 1286052932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Nemerle! < 1286052939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: but what that outputs probably counts as music to most people >:) < 1286052942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yours, that is) < 1286052954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of Nemerle whatsoever. < 1286052955 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1286052957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Æ TRANSCEND YOUR MERE PERCEPTIONS OF MUSIC < 1286052961 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an additive synthesizer < 1286052974 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for researching on inharmonic spectra < 1286052985 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very important to the musicality of computer music < 1286053008 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once electronic instruments can reliably generate inharmonic spectra, the world of electronic music will change forever < 1286053044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made no sense to me at all. < 1286053106 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99.99999999999999999999% of all sounds generated with electronic means are either noise, or harmonic spectra, or derivations from those, or recordings. < 1286053136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like noise. < 1286053140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's inharmonic spectra < 1286053151 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a sound, it has partials < 1286053166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think it's something to do with its timbre. < 1286053183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the first result on Google. < 1286053186 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the frequency and the loudness envelope of these partials is called the spectrum < 1286053195 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be seen with a spectrograph < 1286053199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, is that correct? < 1286053205 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286053234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So real instruments produce harmonic spectra, while computers produce inharmonic ones? < 1286053235 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most sounds generated with syntesizers have harmonic spectra < 1286053246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, other way round? < 1286053275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1286053351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harmonic spectrum = repeating waveform < 1286053356 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1286053370 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a piano is stretched-harmonic. it is a special type of inharmonicity. < 1286053495 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an almost-harmonic spectrum, except < 1286053504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So electronic music is too precise, or what? < 1286053548 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a harmonic spectrum, the frequencies of partials are 1f, 2f, 3f, ... < 1286053567 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a stretched-harmonic spectrum it's 1af, 2af, 3af, 4af, ... < 1286053571 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854] < 1286053581 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a > 1 < 1286053594 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you can also try a <1 and it'll sound nice too) < 1286053613 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think for a piano a is around between 1.001 and 1.1, not sure < 1286053618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOESN'T THIS HAVE AN OBVIOUS ANSWER < 1286053635 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1286053638 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ? < 1286053641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different instruments have different spectra < 1286053650 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1286053663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers have different types of spectra to real instruments. < 1286053666 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that it's mostly about the "a" rather than the levels < 1286053691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's basically it. < 1286053722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and cheater99 plans to discover how to generate inharmonic spectra with a computer and make 5 billion currencies. < 1286053845 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1286053865 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is currently not being achieved on a computer < 1286053874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1286053876 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a very difficult problem computationally < 1286053883 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the additive method needs umpteens of partials < 1286053902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the physical method (simulate a string with weight) is out of reach < 1286053906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that i know of) < 1286054029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wind instruments? < 1286054029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: >SPIT OUT RANDOM LANGUAGE < 1286054042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already spat out Nemerle. < 1286054059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays the flute and is constantly confused by the keyings for notes. < 1286054064 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1286054194 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1286054233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523! < 1286054249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: name a (non-eso) language, please < 1286054304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perl < 1286054307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, WHAT, NEMERLE NOT RANDOM ENOUGH < 1286054310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you said non-eso < 1286054311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1286054314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, ADA < 1286054350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, non-eso but including Perl and languages of similar esoity; can i have another? < 1286054352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's Ada. < 1286054364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but the entire language is in allcaps < 1286054369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: m4 < 1286054374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ada? < 1286054376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1286054387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor < 1286054388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, ok, strengthen non-eso constraint a bit more < 1286054389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: actually, I think it's case-insensitive < 1286054394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Ada.Text_IO; < 1286054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1286054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedure Hello is < 1286054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin < 1286054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ada.Text_IO.Put_Line("Hello, world!"); < 1286054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end Hello; < 1286054397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the Ada code I've seen has been in allcaps < 1286054401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1286054415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Prolog. < 1286054420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSL < 1286054425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: on average, a randomly-picked language is not suitable for your project < 1286054435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I agree < 1286054438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRO. LOG. < 1286054446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I don't use the same lang for everything < 1286054459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, follow cpressey's philosophy on C++. < 1286054460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, there's generally more than one lang suitable for any given project < 1286054485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C. < 1286054493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C++! < 1286054495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D! < 1286054557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does objective C++ actually exist? < 1286054601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen in mentioned in OS X docs. < 1286054616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if it was actually a langage. < 1286054618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, follow cpressey's philosophy on C++. ;; wat? < 1286054622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language. < 1286054623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, for compatibility < 1286054626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with C++ libs < 1286054627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1286054638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't think of a plausible reason for it to exist, but that's one < 1286054739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, DNS root server H was down for around 18 hours < 1286054750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the one owned by the US Army < 1286054760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how reassuring! < 1286054760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the root servers going down is pretty rare... < 1286054769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the terrists. < 1286054779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the nuclear holocaust is mere hours away. < 1286054843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues thinking about graph-based esolangs. < 1286054850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oklopol < 1286054865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphica < 1286054869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I an oklo? < 1286054871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eodermdrome < 1286054882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oklopol's Graphica and ais523 's Eodermdrome < 1286054910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link? < 1286054952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/graphica.txt is so useless words fail me. < 1286054953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/graphica.txt < 1286054955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome < 1286054970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there are also some vjn.fi/pb links by oklopol with graphica code in them in the logs < 1286055005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY NOT READ OKLOTALK-- CODE INSTEAD < 1286055006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk--.txt < 1286055010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THE LISTS ARE MINE < 1286055037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Eodermdrome still hasn't been implemented < 1286055045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although someone (oerjan?) wrote a program in it to prove TCness < 1286055060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages would be good for graph manipulation? < 1286055074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain has failed me on this. < 1286055080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan, yeah < 1286055154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- (greater/less) (or equal to/than) --> < 1286055157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- oklotalk--.txt < 1286055157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1286055233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is probably why eodermdrome wasn't implemented < 1286055240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody can think of a lang that's remotely good to implement it in < 1286055266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen some snippets of graphy code in Prolog... < 1286055284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A fact represents a connection betwixt nodes.) < 1286055296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you could also just have < 1286055298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc(a,b) < 1286055307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e.g. value(a,42). < 1286055308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Prolog doesn't like interfacing with the outside world very much. < 1286055317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it does it alright... < 1286055321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is the point. < 1286055336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i thought you meant like < 1286055336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(b) < 1286055338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is arc(a,b) < 1286055339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bizarre < 1286055341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably asserts would be used to parse < 1286055345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not. < 1286055349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and dynamic < 1286055350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it have < 1286055355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc(A,B) :- arc(B,A). < 1286055357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1286055360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it directional < 1286055373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was. < 1286055378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we can do it that way. < 1286055388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah markup formats suck! < 1286055477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I love the Prolog pathfinding code: < 1286055479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path(A, B) :- arc(A, B). < 1286055480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path(A, B) :- path(A, C), path(C, B). < 1286055514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is cool; this is indisputable. < 1286055527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utterly impractical, but so, so cool. < 1286055619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debugs his path *recording* code < 1286055675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ?- find_path(a,d,R). < 1286055675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = [[a|d]] ? ; (forever) < 1286055678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not happen... < 1286055683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find_path(A, B, [[A|B]]) :- arc(A, B). < 1286055683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find_path(A, B, [[A|C]|R]) :- < 1286055683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : find_path(A, C, R1), < 1286055683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : find_path(C, B, R2), < 1286055683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : append(R1, R2, R). < 1286055704 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1286055721 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is she cute http://tinyurl.com/2vqdepz < 1286055744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, i was even being on-topic < 1286055751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Prolog counts as esoteric, right?) < 1286055760 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trying hard enough < 1286055779 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has existed for more than 1 year < 1286055782 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND has more than 100 users < 1286055786 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/ < 1286055854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure anyone really uses prolog. < 1286055856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog uses them. < 1286055935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would one delete nodes for this? < 1286055956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: retract < 1286055959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you would need to deassert every arc containing them. < 1286055969 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's not nice to not answer questions :( < 1286055972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh, wait, my path code is right < 1286055981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's not directional < 1286055989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: why are you asking, why me, and why in here? < 1286056000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, assert(arc(a,b)). < 1286056005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retract(a). < 1286056011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc(a,b). < 1286056027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still true. < 1286056033 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because i wonder what you think! < 1286056039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: reatract(arc(a,b)) < 1286056041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*retract < 1286056042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durr < 1286056045 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just randomly < 1286056046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: why? < 1286056053 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you were the first person i saw talking on irc) < 1286056065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see /msg < 1286056079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ?- path(a,x). < 1286056079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal Error: local stack overflow (size: 8192 Kb, environment variable used: LOCALSZ) < 1286056108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually a way of getting away with non-tail recursion? < 1286056120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1286056122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path(A, B) :- path(A, C), path(C, B), !. < 1286056141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant generally. < 1286056145 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1286056172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ?- find_path(a, d, R). < 1286056172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1286056232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's also retractall < 1286056234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulba.sdsu.edu/prolog/parsing/recursion_and_assertion.htm < 1286056247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, retract(arc(a,X)). < 1286056255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: retractall < 1286056260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retractall(arc(a,_)). < 1286056286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no particular difference there... < 1286056337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyah, I've forgotten what cut does. < 1286056389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: forgets about all backtracking opportunities < 1286056395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't go back before the cut < 1286056399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it fails after that, it'll just fail. < 1286056429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : R = [[a|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d],[d|b],[b|c],[c|d]] ? < 1286056429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, your thing to make arcs undirected obviously leads to an infinite loop. < 1286056429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1286056438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems incredibly messy < 1286056441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just paths... < 1286056445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1286056454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thought you had written code like that :P < 1286056532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have an account on LTSP and it log in using the Ubuntu GUI, how to set environment variables global to the account? < 1286056553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: .profile < 1286056601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LTSP? < 1286056606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does all environment variables set in .profile affect all programs running in the session for that account? < 1286056607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds familiar < 1286056610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it now again < 1286056623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Terminal Server Project < 1286056690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so thin clients? < 1286056692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1286056768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does all environment variables set in .profile affect all programs running in the session for that account? < 1286056770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xinitrc too < 1286056776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use X < 1286056787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you ever actually write down Eodermdrone's command set? < 1286056818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it on the wiki, didn't I? < 1286056836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1286056837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I can see... < 1286056839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome < 1286056850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually have any commands, that's a complete description of how it works < 1286056856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I kind of see it. < 1286056859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think all esolangs have to be based on commands? < 1286056865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is X; that is what the terminal loads. It uses the graphical login screen and then loads that account in the X session (I think it is the GNOME session). I configured my account to start the bash terminal window at login, but I don't know how to make it automatically maximize the window. < 1286056923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I just skimmed the syntax section. < 1286056939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assumed that there was a predefined command set. < 1286057079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, do I start on the parser or the interpreter? < 1286057153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what parser? < 1286057161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything seems much less crashy without Compiz < 1286057179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for Eodermdrome. < 1286057188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what parser? < 1286057207 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that goes from list of characters to assertions in Prolog. < 1286057217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a list < 1286057237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: using dcgs i hope < 1286057275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributed Common Ground Systems? < 1286057279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolog#Parser_example < 1286057353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is theree a way to disable all of the options in the menu and use .xinitrc instead? < 1286057362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe. < 1286057366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not. < 1286057417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it says graphical login manager do not use .xinitrc it says I need .xsession instead. < 1286057458 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1286057491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took way too long for Akinator to guess "Yes-man" "Some Guy Who Always Presses "Yes"" < 1286057732 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I do not have administrative privilege on that computer) < 1286057763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Languages suck. < 1286057862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please make a language that doesn't suck. < 1286057947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they suck this time? < 1286057976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All reasons! < 1286058002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's focus on a specific area. < 1286058011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do arithmetic operators suck? < 1286058103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because. < 1286058200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sucks about the + operator? < 1286058205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING < 1286058215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, such as? < 1286058217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires multithreading to implement efficiently in INTERCAL < 1286058223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that. < 1286058224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? +? < 1286058229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1286058230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1286058245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: two threads; one to do the addition, the other to check when it's finished < 1286058250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1286058262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that what the standard library does? < 1286058267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it uses a less efficient version < 1286058271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no threading in the stdlib < 1286058276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but you optimise it? < 1286058278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1286058287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't optimise all the way down to addition < 1286058295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, INTERCAL doesn't suck! < 1286058295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? why not? < 1286058297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you link a stdlib written in C rather than INTERCAL) < 1286058300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1286058304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it only optimises individual statements < 1286058308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does dc! < 1286058312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and INTERCAL addition requires a loop (or a very very very large expression) < 1286058314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1286058325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION murders Flash < 1286058339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the stdlib version loops once per bit < 1286058347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the stdlib version loops once per bit