< 1283299272 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1283299336 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu[laptop] < 1283300347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: SyntaxError: it would appear your syntax is in error < 1283300386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, jsforth < 1283300398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares for alise to make some sort of statement expressing disapproval < 1283300493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rx-core.org/jsvm/ < 1283300501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forthfreak.net/jsforth.html < 1283300516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://wiki.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?jsforth) < 1283300522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close to the virtual metal? < 1283300526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://solidcoding.blogspot.com/2008/12/wforth-javascript-forth-interpreter.html < 1283300533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nuff said < 1283300565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting more of a "Don't use it" than a "It already exists" < 1283300582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1283300586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with it, a bit useless though < 1283300599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be made to work with Chrome < 1283300630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering LSL-Forth < 1283300637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, apparently, already has been done < 1283300644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think it's been mass marketed < 1283300668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I wanted to do with a Scheme in LSL, and would want to do the same with a Forth < 1283300673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme might be easier < 1283300674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, when talking about selling Second Life stuff you manage to sound as obnoxious as "social media gurus". < 1283300678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get acceptance stuff < 1283300706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not a large clueless company < 1283300749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are "social media gurus"; they're just clueless < 1283300785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that wForth is worthless < 1283300804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have SEE, it doesn't have c., < 1283300821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has neither postpone nor [compile] < 1283300831 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283300853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have XTs < 1283300874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have .s < 1283300893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised it actually has : and ; < 1283300922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No S" < 1283300939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ' nor ['] < 1283300953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1283300954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1283300956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No immediate < 1283301057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSVM treats enter and space as the same thing, which I guess isn't necessarily bad < 1283301588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's RetroForth. < 1283301591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that. < 1283301602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just ported their VM to JS. < 1283301657 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283302094 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283302289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if LSL-Forth should use native LSL strings or in-memory stuff < 1283302432 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-107-174.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283302464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mu; it should not exist. < 1283302516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has as much right to exist as jsforth does < 1283302646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but jsforth isn't marketed as something you should actually use. < 1283302695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with trying to get people to use a hypothetical LSL-Forth? < 1283302715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess an LSL-Scheme would be easier < 1283302723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More difficult to implement an LSL-Scheme though < 1283303124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be easier to implement Scheme in Forth than directly in LSL < 1283303443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: : min 2dup < if drop ; then nip ; : max ... < 1283303454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What min would look like in colorForth (with translation of colours to symbols) < 1283303460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out how it works! < 1283303473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming those words are defined in cF, I don't know) < 1283303487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember nip < 1283303636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nip == swap drop ? < 1283304134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1283304136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wtfs at that : before max < 1283304145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defining max < 1283304148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just showing how it ended < 1283304151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however, it is relevant) < 1283304154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: note the multiple ;s < 1283304159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nip isn't the important thing < 1283304172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can explain :P < 1283304174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your min does not have a sensible stack effect < 1283304195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess I have no clue wtf that extra ; is for < 1283304206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION think he has guessed < 1283304222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's related to how you said cf does proper TCO... < 1283304231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes it does < 1283304241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll explain it, since nobody is cool enough to get it < 1283304243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from oerjan < 1283304247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Sgeo isn't cool enough to get it < 1283304252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ; does /not/ terminate the definition < 1283304255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinks < 1283304257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; merely compiles as a return < 1283304260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "else" < 1283304261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here we have < 1283304269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2dup > if drop ; then nip ; < 1283304270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1283304272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're > < 1283304274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop then return < 1283304277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, the return will be skipped < 1283304282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we nip then return < 1283304286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you terminate definitions? < 1283304287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1283304288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by starting another one < 1283304291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the : max < 1283304296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or max-in-red in cF itself) < 1283304315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't deny that that's cool. < 1283304323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so how do you actually start interpreting again? < 1283304337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit in normal Forths does the same thing, right? < 1283304343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think so < 1283304346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not actually sure. < 1283304352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably there is some word for it < 1283304354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283304371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ~all of colorForth is blocks of word definitions, so < 1283304378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOvqeABHvQ wtf < 1283304379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc you never actually see : < 1283304379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1283304383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[red NAME] [green WORDS] < 1283304384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[red NAME] [green WORDS] < 1283304384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283304425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw, you can "tail-recurse" in any forth < 1283304426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ; isn't yet another color? < 1283304428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rdrop foo < 1283304432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope, it's a regular word < 1283304439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not syntax highlighting, only actual semantic differences < 1283304446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's rdrop? < 1283304451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop from return stack < 1283304457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly what you think it is < 1283304466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh hm < 1283304468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it work < 1283304468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the return stack is standardized? < 1283304477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um ... it's a vital part of any Forth ... of course it is. < 1283304509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but the things in it are guaranteed to have a specific meaning? Can't one Forth possibly use two cells for each thingy? < 1283304542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283304556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, of course it can; but a Forth can do anything it likes. < 1283304563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANS Forth doesn't say it can, though, but that's not worth anything. < 1283304573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, the only thing that matters is that no Forth does that anyone knows of. < 1283304580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because return stack manipulation is VERY common. < 1283304596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out why rdrop doesn't wokr. < 1283304597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work. < 1283304627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, return stack manipulation for the purposes of manipulating the return stack, or for trivial temporary storage? < 1283304657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former. < 1283304666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, both. < 1283304700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ok ." ok" ; ok < 1283304700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok ok < 1283304858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsfwish < 1283304899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1283304921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video I pasted < 1283304999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't. < 1283305042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pasted a URL to a video < 1283305232 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283305336 0 :Chat2705!dmznqn@69.41.179.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283305342 0 :Chat2705!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283305544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wrong < 1283305546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the logs < 1283305692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is technically correct < 1283305710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit long to wait before saying "nsfw.*", though < 1283305713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1283305780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit long before that part played < 1283305783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have never seen Rejected? < 1283305784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1283305794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have today < 1283305847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the firmament on which the internet is based < 1283306735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a typical way to do events in Forth? < 1283306746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somext someevent < 1283306747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283306946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... don't < 1283306949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup ( a b -- a b a b ) over over ; < 1283306984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1283306997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? < 1283307005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1283307010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup dup dup ; < 1283307018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, uh... < 1283307019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup postpone dup postpone dup ; immediate < 1283307022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1283307024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not < 1283307025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking < 1283307026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2xdup < 1283307028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not dup over two < 1283307039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup postpone over postpone over ; immediate < 1283307039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283307047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why postpone? < 1283307063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would 2dup be immediate? < 1283307088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you're also thinking of over as immediate. Why? < 1283307095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the immediateness is ... alarming < 1283307182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postpone < 1283307186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: simple < 1283307190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 2dup should compile to over over < 1283307196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having to be called < 1283307197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's so simple < 1283307221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically inlining < 1283307226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth will not understand this. It will desperately look for the words 'this', 'will', etc. However the word '' will mark everything up to the end of the line as comment. So this will work: < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : *. * . ; This will multiply and print two numbers < 1283307341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there should be a \ , but I simply don't see it < 1283307402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad escaping obviously < 1283307572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that aw-create thing? < 1283307577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should really use a value < 1283307868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would attempting to popularize LSL-Scheme make more sense? < 1283308450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both make 0 sense. < 1283308527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, LSL sucks < 1283308530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horribly < 1283308753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lavishly sucking language < 1283308780 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283308803 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283308874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "The ANS Forth standard does not express Moore's vision of Forth. Moore believes the ANS standard is far too large and complex, and he doesn't see much value in any standard since people should write their own Forth. It is fair to say that most of the Forth community disagrees." < 1283308923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is fair to say that "most of the X community" is defined as the writer's opinions on X. < 1283308929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weasel words; look them up. < 1283309104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should attempt to figure out the return stack < 1283309168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat's the point of ?dup? < 1283309177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effect on the stack is conditional < 1283309180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Its < 1283309368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1283309373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupidity. < 1283309425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it makes sense to 'boot into Open Firmware' < 1283309682 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283310047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My locker number is 24 < 1283310608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders ForthNomic < 1283310628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doable... but the result would necessarily be very much unforthlike < 1283311178 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283312573 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283312873 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llaallaa < 1283312983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llama rama < 1283313211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rama llama :o < 1283313438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autopsy < 1283313460 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283313517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-psy < 1283313601 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283314020 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283314050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychic autos < 1283314481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283319374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1283319990 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283320012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello did those you, who you wanted to install MegaZeux, done it yet? < 1283320205 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283320260 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283320451 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283321238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just learned that I can't make an AW SDK wrapper for Gforth < 1283321258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: O, you can't? < 1283321266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, actually, possibly I can, but I need to use undocumented stuff < 1283321272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it needs callbacks < 1283321276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Callbacks.html#Callbacks < 1283321292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could somehow implement callbacks in Gforth, somehow < 1283321318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, true, I guess, but I'd have no clue where to start < 1283321377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure when ?dup is useful < 1283321386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't know either, but I have some guesses < 1283321392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do know when ?DUP is useful. < 1283321405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is sometimes useful in ?DUP IF or ?DUP WHILE constructions < 1283321453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do callbacks, perhaps, push stuff in stack, store address in return stack, when it returns pop what is needed and then return to the other program. Maybe, that might work? I don't know. < 1283321570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: rdrop r> drop ; ( except no, this would probably not be what a potential user would want ) < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283321681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god < 1283321689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That definitions of rdrop wouldn't work so well, if... < 1283321695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the xkcd alt text today is geeky < 1283321698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a thought involving a definition with 6 POSTPONE in the body < 1283321725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition you give might act like EXIT does.... < 1283321758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise was doing something akin to inlinine < 1283321761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd use that < 1283321769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I might have a stack of postpones < 1283321789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factored out with a definition that drops in multiple postpones... but the postpones need to be double < 1283321791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doubled < 1283321792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to inline the code, you use POSTPONE and IMMEDIATE < 1283321794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283321840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pattern should be factored out into, say, a inline: < 1283321841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I move that we postpone this conversation indefinitely < 1283321846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too tired and late to do it now < 1283321894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to make the definition clearer if you modify the parser to support backtick notation < 1283321905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtick notation? < 1283321958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtick notation is something that some Forth systems support, I think the first one might have been HELFORTH, although I cannot find any information about it anymore. MegaZeux and TAVSYS also support backtick notation. < 1283321975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more interested in what it does than what its history is < 1283321988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtick notation does this: < 1283321995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; < 1283322001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : THEN` HERE SWAP ! ; < 1283322026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the word IF` is the word to compile IF and DUP` is the word to compile DUP and so on. < 1283322055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But didn't whatn you just put attempt to define IF` ? < 1283322084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you write that more clearly, please? < 1283322170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; an example of using it, or an example of defining IF` ? < 1283322187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an example of defining IF` < 1283322197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an example of using it. < 1283322198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, as in the compilation semantics of IF? < 1283322203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283322228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Forths use compile-only < 1283322236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most use IMMEDIATE < 1283322244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1283322254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, most would use immediate and be state-smart < 1283322262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking STATE < 1283322278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that that's largely not a good thing to do < 1283322351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct, that is not generally a good thing to do < 1283322404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : ELSE` GOTO` ORIG SWAP THEN` ; < 1283322590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an event system, what would it normally look like from the high level? < 1283322596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somext someevent < 1283322597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283322658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see how MegaZeux does it, which is one possible way < 1283322678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The addresses are stored in a event array < 1283322719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the built-in word to create them is :EVENT ( event-number -- )(enter compile mode) < 1283322784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes a lot of sense < 1283322792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, built in? < 1283322804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, not written in MegaZeux Forth? < 1283322824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it is not primitive, it is built-in to the standard library. < 1283322831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1283322831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is written in MegaZeux Forth. < 1283322838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just made a kind of small mistake) < 1283322872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to brush teeth and go sleep < 1283322892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should avoid deliberately using bad grammar < 1283322953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter, as long as it can be possible to understand it < 1283323057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example of an event code in MegaZeux Forth might look like: SimpleLock EV.ITEM + :EVENT DROP BOARD_COLOR + @ TAKEKEY ; < 1283323115 0 :aortizm!~aortizm@190.149.64.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283323120 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283323124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi aortizm < 1283323142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what happens if EV.ITEM happens to be too large to h.. oh, wait, n/m < 1283323144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1283323165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess when I saw the ., my mind went to OOP mode, and thought it was a variable (well, value) < 1283323177 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Sgeo, I'm seeking someone who knows about possetions < 1283323200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aortizm, sorry, this channel is not about the spiritual type of esoterica < 1283323207 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283323220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is about esoteric programming languages... languages that are made not for practical use, but for other reasons < 1283323227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not seek to be mainstream languages < 1283323237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EV.ITEM is a constant representing the value you must add to the kind ID number, to make the event number. < 1283323250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain**** is an example of an esoteric programming language < 1283323252 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perhaps it could use some usefull info.. < 1283323254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the more famous ones < 1283323273 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283323275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL < 1283323295 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aortizm: But sometimes other things are discussed too. But not always. (There was topic message in here once about the spiritual type, but that is not the main purpose of this channel, so if you have on-topic stuff to discuss, it takes priority, generally) < 1283323309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, aortizm left < 1283323331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I see that, I wonder if they know where is the logs, maybe they should look at esolang wiki, too, to see what it is < 1283323351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly doubt that e's interested < 1283323365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully he doesn't attempt to exorcise anyone < 1283323372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be correct, surely < 1283323654 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283323713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have kern information for MagicMedieval font and MPlantin font? I have found program to convert TTF font to METAFONT, but, it doesn't convert kern information or ligature information. Do you have kern and ligature information? < 1283323827 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1283323830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to know so that I can write templates for TeXnicard < 1283323841 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283323877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found information about the .DVI and .*GF formats, so I can write a DVI driver, I already started it a bit < 1283323982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates text layers using the fonts and typeset text in the DVI file, and combines those pictures with external pictures when building a ImageMagick command-line that generates the card pictures. You can enter arbitrary ImageMagick operators using DVI specials. < 1283324445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I need also is a special that converts units of measurement to pixels, so that these numbers are usable in ImageMagick regardless of what DPI resolution you are printing it at. < 1283324769 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283324919 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1283325018 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325327 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283325524 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325781 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283326395 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283326494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get the mana symbols and tap symbols and those other things, also done in METAFONT? < 1283326720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders WAITUNTILEVENT < 1283326758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no clue about kerning < 1283326787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: pixel size depends on DPI by definition < 1283326799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it would probably be a good idea to make that a primitive < 1283326801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and the symbols are images. No clue how you would get those into METAFONT < 1283326816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, I don't know all that much about METAFONT < 1283326911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do you know who can help? Yes I know about pixel size and stuff like that, the output format is in 1 pixel for 1 dot, so if it is printed at 300 DPI it will be a 1 inch picture will be 300 pixels long. < 1283326958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And although I could use pictures for the mana symbols, I think I could get a much better quality if METAFONT is used instead, in addition, using METAFONT means TeX can typeset them the same way as ordinary text. < 1283326989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that case, you'd have to METAFONT-ize them yourself < 1283327222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how I can write METAFONT macros for set symbols. The outline and fill of the set symbol can be separate text layers in dvinicard, and then some ImageMagick operators can be used to put fancy gradients and stuff like that. < 1283327262 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283327378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good is the quality of the mana symbols on cards generated by Magic Set Editor? I think using METAFONT can achieve much better quality. < 1283327643 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They are large images shrunken down < 1283327652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most resolutions you'd use them at, you won't notice a loss in quality < 1283327708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :165 x 178 < 1283327999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283328000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283328569 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4843.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283328682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should learn Factor < 1283328827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Learn it if you want to, but I don't really like it much, and I think you do not need to learn Factor < 1283328923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have lost whatever faith in your country I had left: http://chzoddlyspecific.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/4a65c96b-360e-4853-a7a2-abc782e9ca49.jpg < 1283328953 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283328958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large is a Magic: the Gathering card (in inches)? I did not find a ruler < 1283329009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 by 3.5 or thereabouts < 1283329092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each Magic card, approximately 63 x 88 mm in size (2 15⁄32 by 3 7⁄16 inches), --"; nowadays you can just ask such questions from Wikipedia. < 1283329123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15/32 and 7/16 are reasonably close to .5 though. < 1283329128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth < 1283329134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cards I have in my computer use a template 375 x 523 but that doesn't even make 300 DPI. And the cards must be printed at a higher resolution than that! < 1283329151 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283329152 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283329183 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283329203 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283329234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually if I write this program emough, it might be able to produce better quality cards than official WotC cards even. And then you can sue them if they do not follow the GNU GPL license...... < 1283329267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :375x523 and those physical dimensions sounds like an approximately 150 dpi thing. < 1283329279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I have calculate it and it is approx 150 dpi < 1283329452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my program becomes good enough to be much higher quality than even official cards, then WotC can use it, if they learn how........ < 1283329469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they don't use it, their competitors will use it....... < 1283329501 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they could just keep the modifications in-house < 1283329517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, they can, but they would still have to learn < 1283329544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the included documentation would be sufficient < 1283329585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WotC lawyers are not slackoffs < 1283329673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1283329691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the program itself is not a template. < 1283329723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The template(s) would be separate packages that are not part of the program. < 1283329752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they can use the program and templates internally if they want to, even with private modifications < 1283329839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their competitors will make their own private improvements and they will be better than the one WotC uses < 1283329872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know who their competitors are, but surely their competitors can make templates, too) < 1283329990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does WotC even use TeX or METAFONT or ImageMagick at all? < 1283330013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised (but delighted) if they did. < 1283330069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My guess is horrible in-house tools built on top of some Windows graphical-design apps.) < 1283330094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to go kidnap an employee to make sure. < 1283330176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are probably correct, they probably use horrible in-house tools built on top of some Windows graphical-design apps. And they probably paid a lot of money for it! < 1283330554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people use Photoshop or GIMP, but I find ImageMagick is far superior. Some people use LaTeX, Microsoft Word, OpenOffice, etc, but I find Plain TeX is far superior. Some people use various other software for designing typefaces, but I find METAFONT is far superior. < 1283330683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1283330683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagemagick is not suitable for complex editing < 1283332328 0 :kuato!~kuato@bl15-29-138.dsl.telepac.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283332328 0 :kuato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1283333003 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283333073 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283333094 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283334175 0 :immibis!~user@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283334213 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"99 bottles of beer on the wall. 99 bottles of beer. If one of the bottles should suddenly fall, there'd be undefined bottles of beer on the wall"... < 1283334251 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283334394 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283334659 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283334938 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336432 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1283336492 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336546 0 :GuestA05364!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336561 0 :GuestA0586F!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336566 0 :GuestA05364!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283336571 0 :GuestA0586F!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283337237 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283340281 0 :asiekierka!~user@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283340286 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1283340289 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? < 1283340382 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-54-148.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283340426 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie i need you < 1283340737 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283342324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am at work, not very much here. < 1283342339 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can i send you a new style for fungot? < 1283342341 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: later incidents are chaotic. as i advanced, the light ahead seemed to grow in size and general outline. nor, said the dreams and the fancies they lost so many centuries ago, and no clear account of any kind, but my watch told me it was only the start. zeb here was callin' folks up an' everybody was a-listenin', an' i guess obed kind o' fnord an' i see every one was covered with pegs from which hung a set of pictures < 1283342348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23000-26000 comments from YouTube < 1283342361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. How big is it? < 1283342370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.8 megabytes < 1283342380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, then I guess an email attachment is fine. < 1283342386 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, for now < 1283342391 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will do updates to it once in a while < 1283344412 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283344825 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1283344834 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283345059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283346715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283348186 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283352057 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283352067 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283352992 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283353011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This -- http://p.zem.fi/xcf -- made Xcolorforth compile, start, make a window, and not segfault on x86-64; unfortunately it still only produces a black window that needs to be kill -9'd away. The main point is sed -e 's/poll/cf_poll/g'; it renames the "poll" function in main.c; if you don't do that, SDL_Init (at least as non-root when it can't access the framebuffer device) will fail, presumably because SDL/Xlib/xcb/something expects "poll" to be the lib < 1283353011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c poll, not some other poll. < 1283353067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I believe a completely 32-bit binary must be made, since colorForth is 32-bit afaik < 1283353076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may be hard what with its memory antics, though < 1283353081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do it like that, it is a 32-bit binary, as far as I know. < 1283353087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283353099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try it as root? Yes, yes, suicide, I know. < 1283353106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I forgot to use REISUB; you may not be so stupid. < 1283353123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have root here, I'm at work. :p < 1283353130 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283353132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only did things as root for me; then again, it was broken entirely. < 1283353136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aw. < 1283353188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I attached a gdb to it and backtraced; there was a call stack 5 levels deep inside the function "xcf", which is where it copies color.com contents to; I don't think I'm interested enough in starting to go through the asm code to find out why it's not drawing anything. < 1283353193 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283353198 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283353252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, but XCOLORFORTH! < 1283353253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5 levels in xcf, which had managed to then call the main.c function that makes SDL blit the framebuffer into the window, so I think it's likely it just wasn't drawing anything into it, for some reason or another.) < 1283353288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I can stay awake at home. Still, it's not exactly "bare metal" when ran using the SDL wrapper, now. < 1283353307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but it /is/ bizarre enough to be amusing. < 1283353350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should build a Windows binary, just for the discordance. < 1283353386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is a Windows colorForth already. < 1283353395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :/ Not then. < 1283353438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I doubt you'd get any Linux-specific bits to work, anyway. < 1283353446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming there /are/ some; I'm not exactly sure how modified color.s is. < 1283353452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If at all. < 1283353459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it must be, since it's gas syntax. < 1283353551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assembly bits don't seem to be doing very much Linux-specific things, though. The main.c wrapper passes on a pointer to the SDL surface pixel data, and two function pointers, one for refreshing the screen, and another for polling for keypresses. < 1283353567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283353774 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283353923 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354166 0 :GuestA05364!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354167 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354186 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283354252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1283354435 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354481 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354493 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283354518 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.184.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what alise thinks of factor < 1283354628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is very interesting. The infrastructure, libraries and tools they have built themselves are utterly astonishing, surpassing many commercial languages. The language itself I'm not sure about; it doesn't seem that natural to use to me, but maybe I just haven't adjusted. < 1283354658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it parse itself the way Forth does? < 1283354676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the facilities for such words, yes. < 1283354678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember once looking at Factor and almost immediately rejecting it for some reason < 1283354698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's a bit more semantically-refined, which makes the reflective tools better, the code sometimes easier to understand. < 1283354715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I kind of get Forth, I think I'd be more ok with Factor < 1283354747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is definitely worth checking out. < 1283354754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tools and libraries /are/ absolutely amazing. < 1283354785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it might supplant my current love for Smalltalk? < 1283354796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, AW bindings for Factor! < 1283354805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably more reasonable than for Forth) < 1283354826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283354829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could obliterate every single bit comprising AW in this universe I would just to stop you trying to make bindings for it. < 1283354906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is " a word or something in Factor? There's no space between it and the content of the string < 1283354911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's.. weird < 1283354912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just some sort of a neurosis. You know, some people can't stand when a painting is hanging crooked, or need to alphabetize other people's books/records/whatever? Maybe some people just feel the need to write AW bindings for absolutely everything. < 1283354968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, AW bindings are a project that I want to do, and I should do some sort of project in each language I really want to understand... < 1283355003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick to writing more and more Befunge interpreters, like us sane people do. < 1283355054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: " is syntax; I think you can define your own syntax. < 1283355062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww syntax < 1283355062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283355068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Definable syntax. < 1283355074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283355141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads factor-linux-x86-64-2010-08-29-14-56.tar.gz < 1283355160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my patches almost sort-of made it into Factor! < 1283355166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1283355170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It made it in, just with a few changes < 1283355192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're on *nix, when you divide by zero you get a proper error message, not a vague "system error" type one. < 1283355195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as other such errors. < 1283355209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vague system error + meaningless number) < 1283355220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when, exactly, did you start learning programming? < 1283355221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I wrote some errno -> error string code and replaced the error handler with that. < 1283355230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was about a year ago. < 1283355258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's hard to answer. Well, I fumbled with PHP at 8; fumbled is the right world, it was all cargo cult and misconceptions and no understanding. < 1283355260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Factor's unit test stuff, I think < 1283355261 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283355283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By about 10 I was starting to have a better understanding of stuff; I still did PHP, but it was pretty well thought-out PHP. < 1283355303 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283355304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I picked up Javascript, SQL, etc. in the interim of all this.) < 1283355325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Age 11 I think I picked up Ruby and after a while this sort of banged into my head about how I need to organise code. This is 2007. < 1283355364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then by 12 I somehow covered the basics of tons of stuff including Lisp etc; I think I first touched Haskell when I was 13. < 1283355373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And, uh, it's pretty much been gradual improvement since then. < 1283355376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a boring history. < 1283355391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it was more gradual than "I started learning programming when I was N." < 1283355412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, I was copying and modifying BASIC examples so they broke into -- I think a BBC Micro or something -- when I was really little.) < 1283355434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have done something like that if I wasn't under the constant impression that you need to pay money < 1283355447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read about VB, Perl, and a bunch of other languages < 1283355465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrote some VB at summer camp, I think < 1283355469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, proprietary software has made sure the programming child is more-or-less stillborn. < 1283355500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9th grade or so, started with Python, mostly because it was free (Didn't get started with Java, although I read about it first) < 1283355559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was I experimenting with Magsbot < 1283355567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be sooner than Python < 1283355593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magsbot 2003 or so. 9th grade 2003 or so < 1283355611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHen using Magsbot, I somehow guessed that it used "" to escape quotes < 1283355622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe '', don't remember which is its string syntax) < 1283355740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 9th grade, age-wise? < 1283355753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly US system. < 1283355829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003 - 1989 = 2004 - 1990 = 14 < 1283355886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, 2003. < 1283355930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I assume Factor's [ ] doesn't stay in the dictionary the way Forth's :noname ; does < 1283355937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Everyone else is at a ridiculous disadvantage to me, since I've had a computer since I was 3. So don't feel bad :-P < 1283356045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a proper closure. < 1283356052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forth's isn't, having not really a true concept of a closure.) < 1283356060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try not to compare it too much to Forth. < 1283356063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's concatenative more than stack-based. < 1283356064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher-level. < 1283356066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know Joy? < 1283356068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Cat? < 1283356070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1283356079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of those until I started reading about Forth < 1283356090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Joy is the "purest" concatenative language: like a stack calculus, < 1283356093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calculus. < 1283356107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We say that everything is a function, and usually in a language if you have something like "x y", it means x(y) < 1283356107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Forth impure? >.> < 1283356116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We say instead that "x y" = y . x < 1283356120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function composition < 1283356129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we say that the whole program is applied to an empty stack < 1283356142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup is the function dup({x,...}) = {x,x,...} < 1283356148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop({x,...}) = {...} < 1283356153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap({x,y,...}) = {y,x,...} < 1283356155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1283356165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we also have [...], which pushes the list of words inside on to the stack. < 1283356173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might like this more than Haskell < 1283356177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have i, which takes a [...] off the top of the stack and puts all the words inside it after the i. < 1283356178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems easier < 1283356179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1283356185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b c] i => a b c < 1283356194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So as you can see this is utterly pure and functional. < 1283356198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not imperative. < 1283356205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor has more in common with it than it does Forth. < 1283356209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably not, but I'm thinking in stacky mode < 1283356211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So think functionally. < 1283356222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think functionally. < 1283356226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also stacky. < 1283356229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., concatenatively. < 1283356305 0 :GuestA05364!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283356318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bibbles at checking stack effect < 1283356344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB. I may or may not remain connected < 1283356344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a good or bad way? < 1283356358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a, how does it work way < 1283356421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1283356427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each word inside's stack effect is known. < 1283356430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just cascade them. < 1283356446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what the fuck is bibbling. I assume some Creatures thing. < 1283356584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happens with ifs? < 1283356610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess they're checked, but how do you define your own thing that needs to work with stack checking? < 1283356611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both branches have to have the same stack effect, I think. < 1283356619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It Just Works. < 1283356623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry about it. < 1283356639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not something you define. < 1283356647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor a heuristic, for that matter.) < 1283356819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, every word has to have a consistent stack effect. < 1283356828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is if? < 1283356831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax? < 1283356833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word. < 1283356885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: \ if see < 1283356897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait < 1283356898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283356900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't downloaded Factor yet < 1283356901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: \ if help < 1283356941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme find the manual page for yu. < 1283356944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1283356975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-if,kernel.html < 1283356986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes the definition. < 1283356994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This can be conjured up with \ if help in the graphical listener.) < 1283357042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, anything you write yourself will be composed of smaller primitives that already have a known stack effect, which Factor will check you adhere to. < 1283357052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any conditionals or whatever you write will already work with them. < 1283357064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to declare anything, since /every other word's stack effect is known/. < 1283357093 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The only word with an unknown stack effect is call: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-call,kernel.html. < 1283357108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, < 1283357113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Words which call an input parameter must be declared inline so that a caller which passes in a literal quotation can have a static stack effect." < 1283357128 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's call( stack -- effect ) < 1283357138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which does what you think it does. < 1283357144 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E3FC3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Requires a ( stack -- effect ) quotation on the top of the stack, and calls it.) < 1283357157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So call is generally not used; it's pretty evil. < 1283357170 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But used by functions to implement safe ones, such as if, so it's there.) < 1283357210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh yeah, and Factor compiles to very compact, efficient native code (no C compiler or whatever). < 1283357210 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi alise < 1283357229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty competitive with SBCL, which is pretty much the gold standard for language implementation, bowing only to O'Caml and C. < 1283357232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hi. < 1283357248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, if call can only be used with statically defined ... thingies, what's the point? < 1283357257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, [ ] thingies < 1283357278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for example, if. < 1283357295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two quotations ("[ ] thingies") are always static. < 1283357299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the boolean to branch on is not. < 1283357301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is ? call < 1283357307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Y true ? => X < 1283357311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Y false ? => Y < 1283357318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as you can see, "? call" is if. < 1283357336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet you can't pass a dynamically-generated quotation to if. Well, you can, but only if it's known at compile time. < 1283357341 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283357353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Composition, etc.) < 1283357360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What I'm saying is, don't worry about it. < 1283357361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always works. < 1283357369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a heuristic or a hack. < 1283357377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bubut... how can I store a quotation, then? < 1283357380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For later use? < 1283357381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283357383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can < 1283357398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, clearly you don't know Factor enough to understand half of the edge-cases I'm explaining. < 1283357403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Forget everything I said. < 1283357409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new answer is: < 1283357434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it always works. No, it's not a heuristic. No, it's not hacky. It's like Haskell's type checking, only it never needs help from you. < 1283357450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She made her own slides < 1283357464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1283357474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl professor < 1283357484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she just emphasized that it's "Perl", not "PERL" < 1283357488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning Perl and Factor at the same time. Great idea... XD < 1283357505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning Factor for fun. I'm learning Perl because I have to at this school < 1283357533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't blame me when you write [ + ] $foo = ; < 1283357537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A school that makes you learn Perl. That's... very interesting. < 1283357550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: At least the prof seems sane enough to teach best practices. < 1283357557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which make Perl into a good enough language. < 1283357609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it just seems like such a... non-academic choice, somehow. Java, C++, Python would all beat it out in most heads that I've seen. < 1283357624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For different, maybe bad, reasons. < 1283357627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a non-academic course < 1283357629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283357631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1283357635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, still. < 1283357641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is what you should be learning! < 1283357641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer Programming and Information Systems" < 1283357647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a non-academic university, from the sounds of it >____> < 1283357648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the school of business < 1283357658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't "unacademic" a word? < 1283357662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, of course it is. < 1283357664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unacademic. < 1283357665 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1283357675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how vague ICT-style names get each passing year. < 1283357678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information Systems! < 1283357682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information Nodes! < 1283357685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information... Technology! < 1283357692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information ENTITIES! < 1283357694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENTITY ENTITIES! < 1283357698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS! < 1283357715 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, Information Systems and Information Technology are pretty old and standard at this point. < 1283357730 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And very, very sad concepts. < 1283357765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is this SBCL? I should know this < 1283357774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Steel Bank Common Lisp. < 1283357780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly? Heh. < 1283357783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMUCL's developed descendant. < 1283357799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Carnegie Mellon University Common Lisp. < 1283357803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out the pun and get a cookie. < 1283357816 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compiled Lisp" always makes me blink. < 1283357825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how Common Lisp is done. < 1283357834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, figure out the pun in SBCL's name using CMUCL's.) < 1283357834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, working on it. Still too early to take apart deep, profound puns, you know. < 1283357843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I could just tell you. < 1283357848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283357866 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could jkust read it inadvertently on the wp page, which I just did. Sorry. < 1283357869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, yes. < 1283357928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But yeah, O'Caml and SBCL are very near the top of the fastest functional languages. (Only beaten by weird things like ATS, probably.) < 1283357935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBCL is competitive with gcc in many cases. < 1283357943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Caml regularly gets gcc performance on well-written code. < 1283357953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is competitive with SBCL. So pretty fast, and all that. < 1283357971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Interesting. My perception was that ghc was one of the top runners. That's like 8 years out of date, maybe. < 1283357994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gcc-level, obviously, and good for a lazy language, but still. < 1283358015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ghc is quite a few places down. But it's good if you either write ridiculously strict, imperative code /or/ write code that makes its stream fusion and other advanced features happy. < 1283358040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run-of-the-mill, not-cleverly-written (not just for performance, in general) Haskell code isn't very fast with GHC. (And it takes up terabytes of memory.) < 1283358061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive for Haskell, though. :P < 1283358191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table == dictionary, right? < 1283358199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She asked if anyone worked with hash tables before.. < 1283358209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table implements dictionary < 1283358215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cpressey said < 1283358219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only python calls them dictionaries :P < 1283358233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# dictionaries are different? < 1283358235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionary == map < 1283358237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, C#. < 1283358241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a fuck about C#. < 1283358261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start writing C# just to piss alise off. < 1283358266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Pet peeve: "associative array". It might not be an array, moron! < 1283358279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at generality, Wikipedia. < 1283358284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, I never liked that term either. < 1283358742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor does have an FFI, right? < 1283358765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: An excellent one. < 1283358776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The entire UI is written in OpenGL, in Factor. < 1283358788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Cocoa, Win32 and X11 backends; again in Factor. < 1283358811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it even comes with a full libc binding in the stdlib. < 1283358817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283358825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you haven't seen the UI yet, have you? < 1283358832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1283358845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is possibly the most well-documented and comprehensive community-developed language there is. < 1283358857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation viewer is wonderful, the debugger is great, etc. < 1283358879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about on-the-fly modification of code? < 1283358884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283358889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can click on a word in the listener (REPL) to look at its documentation, which is always useful. (It'll also tell you where a word is, if you use it and haven't imported the right module; it will import it for you if you want). < 1283358893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what do you mean? < 1283358897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like modifying the standard library> < 1283358901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*library? < 1283358902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Smalltalk style, or Erlang style < 1283358902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1283358910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yep: \ sqrt edit < 1283358918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opens in your defined editor (one of many). < 1283358929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best one to use is Emacs with the comprehensive Factor mode whose name I forget. < 1283358934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It integrates tightly with the listener. < 1283358947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'm cancelling the Smalltalk bindings project < 1283358955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283358968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Now Factor is his girlfriend. < 1283358985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, FUEL is the name of the Emacs thing. < 1283358986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh dear. Falcon will become very, very jealous. < 1283358998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nonono, Forth! Or was it Smalltalk? < 1283359017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Smalltalk isn't the basis of a long-term relationship. LOLOLOLOL SEE WUT I DID THAR < 1283359078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets up FUEL < 1283359079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She had trouble figuring out why '\\n' and '\n' were giving her the same thing < 1283359103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She expected '\\n' to give her a newline < 1283359107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1283359111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe she is retarded, then. < 1283359118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The prof? < 1283359122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes < 1283359179 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283359207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW, I do think you have to re-load a module before your saved changes take effect. < 1283359211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reasonable, though. < 1283359224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the project still be running while it's reloaded? < 1283359240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh... not really. I assume by project you mean "some word". < 1283359285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms at Perl < 1283359329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what/ < 1283359331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what? < 1283359341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole automatic conversion of strings to numbers etc < 1283359652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The f parsing word adds the f object to the parse tree, and is also the class whose sole instance is the f object. The f object is the singleton false value, the only object that is not true. The f object is not equal to the f class word, which can be pushed on the stack using word wrapper syntax:]] < 1283359654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283359724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that `perl' is a REPL and that I just haven't figured out how to use it < 1283359797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figurd it out < 1283359800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite a REPL < 1283359804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still easier to use < 1283359822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she just said that she won't teach it to the students right now because she doesn't have anything prepared < 1283359925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can't tell you that. < 1283359950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you've figured it out, please let me know. < 1283359974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I remember perl reading from standard in is simply perl reading from stdin. Though I may be wrong. < 1283359985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, >.> < 1283359985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perl -de0 < 1283359994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets you the debugger < 1283359997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is almost a REPL < 1283360005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it's easier to just write a script, though < 1283360007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there ARE perl repls < 1283360010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just `perl' is also easy < 1283360017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perhaps annoying < 1283360017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Devel::REPL is the best < 1283360019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cpan probably has a few REPLs < 1283360022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to get that you need to figure out cpan < 1283360025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cpan is LIQUID PAIN < 1283360031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpanplus is better, so you'd want that < 1283360034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with < 1283360035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl < 1283360036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you'd have to install cpanplus < 1283360039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Some perl code < 1283360040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never thought of using the debugger as a repl. < 1283360042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D < 1283360047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on distro. Gentoo had a tool to generate ebuilds for cpan packages iirc < 1283360048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ais523 told me that trick < 1283360051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which worked quite well < 1283360052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Windows. < 1283360055 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use -e "print 56 * 71;" on the command line < 1283360056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oops < 1283360063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that will indeed be painful < 1283360475 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283360552 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in case anyone cares, I have essentially finished Eightebed. Might want to tweak the doc is all, then need to find a time to publish it. Also, I built qemu last night and ran BefOS under it. Also rebuilt BefOS from source (it has a recursive makefile, but in my defense, it (a) is broken and (b) includes the comment "This is so wrong." at the top.) < 1283360589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, eightebed? < 1283360648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, recursive as in calling itself by invoking make? < 1283360659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283360667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know what a fucking recursive makefile is. < 1283360686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes and that tends to be invoke make in a subdir by calling make in a rule < 1283360699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clap* *clap* *clap* < 1283360700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my question still stands < 1283360703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you didn't need to ask anything, really. < 1283360726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because recursive make in the other sense sounds quite fun < 1283360891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive make has some perfectly legal uses. For example /usr/src/Makefile on FreeBSD is recursive as far as I remember. Or are you suggesting a single makefile for kernel, libc, userspace programs and so on should feel free to implement that. Would likely be quite a pain < 1283360906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can rebuild only a subtree. That still has to work < 1283360940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include libc/Makefile < 1283360943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was hard < 1283360948 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would rebuilding a subtree not work with a monolithic Makefile? < 1283360966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Vorpal recursively calls the interpreter rather than using "require" statements, too. < 1283360967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well, it could, would have to be run from the top dir though < 1283360974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make usr/bin/cat < 1283360976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1283360985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc/Makefile could have all the stuff needed to build the libc. < 1283360990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The makefile in . would include it. < 1283360992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes in the sense that cd libc; make < 1283360997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1283360999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd libc; make would work < 1283361000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not easily work < 1283361001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so would < 1283361004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make libc/... < 1283361005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could be done < 1283361007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course it would < 1283361012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write the libc makefile in the libc directory < 1283361014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and include it one above < 1283361023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to handle some directory differences, but nothing unsolvable < 1283361024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made a makefile that calls itself, once, fwiw, but it was limited to one level of recursion that way. < 1283361025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as far as I can tell that need some path mangling < 1283361037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makefiles can have a target to make themselves < 1283361045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when this happens, make automatically calls it again with the new makefile < 1283361052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is for managing dependencies automatically; I have used it) < 1283361054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1283361067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile: $(SRCS) \ ... run makedep or gcc -Msomething or whatever ... < 1283361078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and append to make.deps) < 1283361079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then underneath < 1283361081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include make.deps < 1283361092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll always generate new dependencies and include the updated file if you change the sources < 1283361108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but that is not the same as calling itself in the sense of: foo:\n\tmake bar < 1283361125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's metanough for me. < 1283361132 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283361137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and a lot more boring < 1283361142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, about as boring as kexec ;P < 1283361190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say a Makefile rule is a lot more interesting than ZOMG CALLING THE PROGRAM MAKE INSIDE A MAKEFILE. < 1283361253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evolving Intelligent Systems. Methodology and Applications"; as far as course names go, that's a bit on the pretentious side. (It's just about on-line learning in different machine-learning contexts.) < 1283361292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on how you use it. I mean, C++ templates in general are not that interesting. But when used to do advanced compile time computation it is a bit more interesting, in an esoteric way < 1283361310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure you could use make calling itself for some interesting hacks < 1283361321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Programming GOD. An introductory AI course. < 1283361357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "To further confuse matters, Murray also has a tendency to rename his theory frequently; it’s variously referred to as the Concept-Fiber Theory of Mind, the Fiber-Concept Theory of Mind, the AI4U Theory of Mind, the Mentifex Theory of Mind, the Standard Model of the Mind, Project Mentifex, the First Detailed Theory of Mind, and the Grand Unified Theory of Mind." < 1283361383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grand Unified Theory of Mind, especially.) < 1283361406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the mentifex guy? < 1283361416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's from the Mentifex FAQ. < 1283361422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Mentifex. < 1283361471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1283361500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was yet another comp.lang.forth (or Usenet in general) newcomer who was all "ooh, he's been working on this for twenty years all by himself; this is the sort of project that generates Real Science(tm), versus the corrupt capitalistic committee-driven universities, pshaw". < 1283361506 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283361522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth does attract the crazies a bit. < 1283361626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: MindForth Programming Journal (MFPJ) 2010 August 25: http://p.zem.fi/mpfj-2010-aug-25 -- see, he's almost completely "solved AI". < 1283361658 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone like .nsf? < 1283361673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was crossposted to comp.lang.forth,comp.ai.nat-lang,comp.robotics.misc,alt.consumers.free-stuff -- especially the last group seems to be incredibly relevant. < 1283361690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GOD BES SPIRIT < 1283361696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: what's .nsf again? < 1283361714 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nes song < 1283361729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283361758 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the songs from famicompo 7 are out < 1283361943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, http://zem.fi/~fis/xcf.png -- I just copy-pasted those commands from that paste here at home, and that happened. < 1283361982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait. < 1283361986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the dvorak keyboard? < 1283361987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1283361989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is! < 1283362002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad I can't use that thing at all. < 1283362018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.colorforth.com/keys.html < 1283362021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys there are the two halves < 1283362028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left alt switches keypads < 1283362031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"e " starts the editor < 1283362032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN < 1283362068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen that, but it's still oh-so-confusing! I'm going to try having fun at some other time. < 1283362116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You basically have to be Chuck Moore. < 1283362125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the site and http://colorforthray.info/ may help. MAY. < 1283362128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to be registering for a WAVE UNIVERSITY account, anyway; they're going to put all the IT systems of the three separate universities into a blender, and then making us eat the sludge that comes out of it. < 1283362169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you guys form some committee to create a modern university in mexico < 1283362171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could call it < 1283362175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexican Wave University < 1283362184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in cooperation with yours < 1283362236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best wavelet ever: the Mexican hat wavelet. < 1283362341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ooh! Or if you get bought out by Google: < 1283362344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Wave University < 1283362842 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-18.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283362886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, my new Wave account lets me download the ISO of COMSOL Multiphysics 4.0a. (It's some sort of finite-element solver/simulator we have a campus license for.) < 1283363078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorForth: Gives Chuck Moore the programmer productivity of twenty Chuck Moores! < 1283363495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so hm. This wave university thingy seems rather messy. < 1283364033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl kernel upgrade < 1283364279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283364282 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283364409 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1283364821 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283364845 0 :madbr2!~madbrain@poste128-168.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365105 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283365112 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365130 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@poste128-168.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365133 0 :madbr2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283365498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, BefOS is rubbish. But it *was* pretty cool running it on actual bare metal (a disused 486 desktop back in the day) and having to wait for the actual, physical floppy to seek, when paging up and down. Putative todo list: Clean up the code base, Switch to unreal mode on boot, Allow editing memory pages, Implement an actual VM for it (likely something rather befungeoid, but not Befunge), Rebrand the thing because < 1283365529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because what? < 1283365534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your line was cut short < 1283365544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Rebrand the thing because I don't like the name BefOS. < 1283365548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283365557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was cut after "because" < 1283365574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, strange irc client that doesn't automatically split overly long lines < 1283365781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: does it actually have a UI? < 1283365833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you define UI here? < 1283365840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283365847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey knows. < 1283366218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it has a user interface. After a fashion. < 1283366290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers a makefile based init script system < 1283366295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking "Rewrite UI in the befungeoid VM" as one of the todo items, but didn't write it, because I'm not sure. Rewriting some of the system in the interpreted language, yes. < 1283366327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might actually work rather well < 1283366457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also need to document the key mappings, rather badly (I swear they used to be, I must have lost that page.) < 1283366500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm, how large is the funge space of this thing? < 1283366542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a set of 80x25 pages. Each of those is 2K. There are currently as many as will fit on a floppy. < 1283366590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I think that with 64-bit mode you do some cleaver stuff with the virtual pages so you can have a flat funge-space, not with 64-bit cells of course. And then allocate pages as needed < 1283366598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do fully 32 bit cells either < 1283366684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because long mode is SUPER FUN. < 1283366691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1) 48 bits actually usable with a hole in "the middle", and sign extending the addresses in the upper half 2) you need a few pages for interpreter code and meta data < 1283366703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is completely lost < 1283366784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what I'm suggesting that you with 16-bit cells could do something like BASE+y*SOMETHING+x and then use that address in your virtual address space as the funge space position < 1283366841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you need BASE because you want a few pages somewhere to keep track of what physical memory is mapped where and also the interpreter code < 1283366850 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The VM language is only going to superficially resemble Befunge, and even then, the Befunge it resembles is Befunge-93. < 1283366852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could put that at the top < 1283366872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So - 16 bits is plenty to describe a position in an 80x25 page < 1283366874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, right, I was just discussing a rather hackish use of paging < 1283366884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to abuse that to create a sparse array < 1283366900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparse by page faulting if the page isn't used already < 1283366920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No page faults. Not protected mode. Of course, you're free to write your own OS. < 1283366926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't want BASE+y*SOMETHING+x, horrible for cache if traveling much in y < 1283366960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe hilberts space filling curve, not sure how fast that is to compute < 1283366967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interleaving x and y bits < 1283366985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I KNOW! I was just discussing an interesting hack I thought of < 1283366999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, which would be possible only on OS level < 1283367026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, stop being so negative < 1283367066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chill, dude. < 1283367077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how many 80x25 pages btw? < 1283367101 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: It's a set of 80x25 pages. Each of those is 2K. There are currently as many as will fit on a floppy. < 1283367111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and I don't know how many fits on a floppy < 1283367121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because you didn't say which type of floppy < 1283367152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I have at least 3 types in this room. Only two of which I can read < 1283367169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283367171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I can't read is a *floppy* floppy. < 1283367199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're not funny, interesting or clever by peddling such needless pedantry at that in an attempt to keep the conversation going. < 1283367207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since he said 486, you know perfectly well which kind he meant. < 1283367212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are several floppy variants that work in normal "PC" floppy drives < 1283367216 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um. Are you needing to know the exact number of pages the current version has available? < 1283367237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, see, I thought you would be satisfied with an impression, an order of magnitude, you know? < 1283367240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And you know damn well that if he meant anything other than 1.44 MB, he'd have said so, it being an ABNORMAL case. < 1283367240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no, just roughly would be enough < 1283367252 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then: a floppy-full. < 1283367255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have more of those old single sided ones than I have 1.44 MB < 1283367266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so no I didn't know that < 1283367279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, you do, probably because your brain optimises for being as much of an edge-case as you can so you have something to talk about. < 1283367282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else does. < 1283367335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, personal insults. How fun < 1283367357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really want to take the discussion that low? < 1283367369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not a personal insult. Well, it was, but it was not ad hominem. < 1283367371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was relevant. < 1283367406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wound say it was highly inaccurate though. Relevant... maybe to some degree. Could have been more irrelevant at least. < 1283367422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people are seriously the worst getting-along people I know of; sometimes I like to consider the absurdity of a Vorpal-alise collaborative project, the existence of which would cause the world to collapse. < 1283367433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/You people/You two/ < 1283367443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1283367486 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.177.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283367490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To be fair, he /is/ the stupidest person /I/ know of. (Now watch as he copies my sentence structure!) < 1283367497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not particularly fair to stupid people. < 1283367503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283367504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1283367514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that was ad hominem though < 1283367526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Incorrect again, my friend; *that* was not an argument. :) < 1283367554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes it was... < 1283367569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't; I merely said it, not submitted it as an argument for some debate. < 1283367586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I have a new pano I took at university yesterday coming up in a bit. < 1283367619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mentioned that there was something you didn't like about Factor? < 1283367622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mobile camera, but turned out rather well if you don't zoom in too much. Matches up well in all but one place < 1283367652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, I just never got in to the language itself. Maybe I will now. < 1283367660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slava Pestov is an awesome guy; #concatenative is a really nice channel. < 1283367669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's technically for non-Factor stuff too, but it's the Factor channel.) < 1283367686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good project. < 1283367710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters something incomprehensible about every image based language thinking it owns .image < 1283367713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Speaking of photography, look what we found from the local IKEA; a TRÅDIG-model cat: http://zem.fi/~fis/ikea-cat.jpg < 1283367722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: file extensions aren't owned, Windowser. < 1283367737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D < 1283367814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been doing some interior design improvements to the box (read: eating it) after the picture was taken, though. < 1283367840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you buy it? < 1283367850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! Factor perfectly integrated with Emacs. < 1283367899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION right-clicks Edit on a random word; the file opens in Emacs, scrolled to the definition < 1283367900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha < 1283367903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have infinite power < 1283367924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Speaking of photography, look what we found from the local IKEA; a TRÅDIG-model cat: http://zem.fi/~fis/ikea-cat.jpg <-- what a fitting name. Well "hårig" would have been even better < 1283367927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close enough < 1283367959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://omploader.org/vNWVyMA < 1283367997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen a similar-looking building before. < 1283368012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but then it was like 2 meter of snow outside < 1283368019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the pano didn't match up well at all < 1283368057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I tried a vertical pano < 1283368067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is near impossible without some mount < 1283368172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there are actually 2 seams < 1283368232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw we will be using RCX in a lab next week. < 1283368250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, communication protocol lab < 1283368260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rather strange choice of unit for it < 1283368266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of play-university is that place?-) < 1283368272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess it is a nice and simple protocol to start with < 1283368293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey the RCX was developed at MIT so... < 1283368306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at MIT together with lego to be exact < 1283368345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "telecommunications" "labwork" (if you can call it that) I did just used a network of six virtual machines or so. But I guess this is a bit lower-level communications-protocol and less networking-infrastructure thing? < 1283368371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw, the factor wiki and pastebin are coded in factor < 1283368371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway the IR protocol is probably good for the first lab in the network and communication course. There were TCP/IP labs and so on later on < 1283368377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and included with the distribution < 1283368382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is more later on < 1283368387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whatever happened to Pliant < 1283368407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, including a non-static website with software seems nonsensical. I assume you mean a URL < 1283368409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I guess since it is a introductory course, they don't want to start off with a too complex protocol < 1283368415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The code ..................... < 1283368420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1283368420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1283368422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1283368423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283368425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1283368457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We had a "Unix programming" special course; I found something like 16 more-or-less-serious (some *very* minor, admittedly) errors/unclarities in the course slides. < 1283368459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably uninstall WIn32Forth at some point < 1283368468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Pliant is still around at http://www.pliantcode.com/ and http://fullpliant.org/doc/ < 1283368491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what the heck is it? < 1283368494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283368497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh yeah, this first lab will also serve as a way to learn *nix iirc. For those that don't know it < 1283368497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i care about it? < 1283368510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In computer software programming languages history, Pliant is the first attempt to connect C and LISP branches. < 1283368510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was written by Hubert Tonneau, first published in 1999, and is released under GNU General Public License version 2.]] < 1283368511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1283368515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like nobody tried that before 1999 < 1283368543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Wikipedia. Thy NPOV shines upon us! < 1283368550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so what is it? < 1283368553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i know what it is < 1283368554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but context? < 1283368583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I dunno, something you said about Factor reminded me of it < 1283368613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at there being no 3xx level chem courses < 1283368618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language where you can change the syntax and build your own language! Whee! Yeah, never been done before. < 1283368623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, one issue seems to be they are using non-custom firmware on those. Rather annoying. The default lego firmware is horribly bad. And that is "so bad it is bad" bad. < 1283368624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Several were pretty clear errors, like claiming that to delete a file, you need write permission for the file itself. And that you need to have a "extern char **environ;" declaration before you can use getenv/putenv. < 1283368631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Heh. < 1283368633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pliant does that? < 1283368677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was this someplace where you could correct whoever was teaching it? < 1283368694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's what I understood its schtick to be, yes. < 1283368697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a major fan of correcting professors < 1283368699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pliant is a great language of choice for any of the following example applications: relational database engine, 3D game engine, GMail like web-app, peer-to-peer sharing network, kernel drivers, online web store." < 1283368702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, I think my corrections were credited on the next lecture, even. < 1283368703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's probably rather rude < 1283368705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They probably hate your guts. < 1283368707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awesome < 1283368728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a great language of choice. < 1283368730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you correct purposeful simplifications for the purpose of teaching, that is. < 1283368741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you gazed upon the delight that is Plain English? < 1283368752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, I might have done that once or twice >.> < 1283368766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's obnoxious. < 1283368767 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one with ~1000 words? < 1283368770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm to delete a file you need write permission to the containing directory. Hm can you delete a file you can write to but where you can't write to the containing directory? < 1283368778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: nonono < 1283368781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: it's a programming language < 1283368799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. Well, unless you consider truncating it to zero bytes, which is sort-of "deleting" it. But not really. < 1283368800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in the most warped form of english you can imagine, with a hilarious manual that calls Windows variously the kludge, the whore, etc. < 1283368800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No nested ifs iirc < 1283368807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1283368808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler is written in itself, which is beautifully horrific < 1283368814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's meant to cost like $100 < 1283368820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could get it for free by looking at the js code < 1283368831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it had cartoon "testimonials" from claude monet, bill gates, k&r, ... < 1283368859 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Holy wow. No, I had not. < 1283368872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.osmosian.com/ they removed their fun cartoon site and replaced it with this < 1283368877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download the sample application to look at the source < 1283368884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cartoon testimonial for Monet. That's...oh damn. < 1283368890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/for/from/ < 1283368893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it was because of their sample application < 1283368899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses dots to reproduce google image search results < 1283368901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah can hook you up with the actual compiler etc., which is pure fun to use < 1283368909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the editor will ONLY start full screen using an awful comic font < 1283368915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually started on a bf interpreter < 1283368917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was too difficult < 1283368923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fight with the syntax < 1283368934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Reading the compiler, though, wow. < 1283368937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may arguably have done that "correct purposeful simplifications" thing back when I got into that argument about *all* floating-point formats being binary (while TI's calculator-floats are BCD); but they were so forcefully insisting on everything everywhere being implemented with base-two fractions and powers of two. < 1283368940 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What do I need to run it? Windows XP or Vista. Yuk." < 1283368942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It has raw hex for all the compiled instructions. < 1283368949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And the rest is written in that mechanical English style. < 1283368955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing and all. < 1283368955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait a second. That isn't true in general < 1283368965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So really, I am very impressed that they could program something that big and ... well, actually-working in it. < 1283368969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the sticky bit messes things up < 1283368973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like LoseThos. < 1283368976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to account for that possibility too < 1283369021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.osmosian.com/manifesto.pdf this thing has the font used in the editor < 1283369025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I did mention that in the correction. But even with the sticky bit set, the original claim -- write permissions on the file -- is still irrelevant. < 1283369043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether he should do the Your First Program tutorial despite having read it but not acted < 1283369046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe to get a feel for it < 1283369047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program runs on the Wintel Kluge, was written entirely in Plain English, and < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-compiles itself in less than three seconds. That's right. Three seconds. < 1283369055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: factor's? < 1283369060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably. < 1283369130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries out the deploy tool < 1283369131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh yeah, and the whole UI system is based on 1/ns of an inch -- I think n=16 < 1283369188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the result of sticky bit on files seems to vary a lot (not implemented is most common though) < 1283369196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bit#Usage < 1283369218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I. Am. Enthralled. < 1283369237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You NEED to see the compiler. They call it "the noodle", IIRC. < 1283369244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally that filename. No extension, "the " and all. < 1283369265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "they"? < 1283369275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are there really multiple persons behind it? < 1283369282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the heck should I know? < 1283369286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283369287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They call themselves The Osmosian Order. < 1283369289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1283369290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a single guy with a split personality thing. < 1283369292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, singular they. < 1283369298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly valid. < 1283369309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer spivak but sure... < 1283369328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to believe that it's twenty or so absolutely crazy, unwashed, unshaven people living in one messy house. < 1283369340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers is a group of like-minded developers and educators dedicated to the rescue of computer science from the pervasive fog of confusion engulfing it today." < 1283369346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the world's most crazy-programming-language-oriented group marriage. < 1283369355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "group" word does sort of suggest >1, while not being absolutely confirmsome. < 1283369360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, he could be lying. < 1283369369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or self-aggrandising. < 1283369382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(She, maybe?) < 1283369388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Naw.) < 1283369421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, osmosian.com is registered by Dan Rzeppa, 610 Scholl Rd, Mansfield, Ohio 44907, United States. < 1283369462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The setuid bit was invented by Dennis Ritchie. His employer, AT&T, applied for a patent in 1972; the patent was granted in 1979 as patent number US patent 4135240 "Protection of data file contents". The patent was later placed in the public domain." < 1283369474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange to think that setuid was patented... < 1283369567 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osmosian? yeah that's a classic no? < 1283369626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Uh... I went to a nearby place with Google streetview (Scholl Road itself hasn't been driven on), and got this: http://zem.fi/~fis/scholl.jpg -- I think I'm forced to conclude that The Osmosian Order is a group of extraterrestials. < 1283369643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That makes sense. < 1283369663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The van and its driver became a being of pure energy when it went any further. < 1283369675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can see, you can never reach Scholl Road in this reality. < 1283369678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: Uh... I went to a nearby place with Google streetview (Scholl Road itself hasn't been driven on), and got this: http://zem.fi/~fis/scholl.jpg -- I think I'm forced to conclude that The Osmosian Order is a group of extraterrestials. <-- what the fuck? < 1283369679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*So you see, < 1283369690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osmosian - Alien Species Wiki - Aliens, UFOs, Space aliens < 1283369690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osmosians are an aliens that look like humans, The name 'Osmosian' is a play on the word "osmosis", the name of the physical process by which a solvent, ... < 1283369691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Google < 1283369696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there you go then. < 1283369700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Osmosian < 1283369701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... see. < 1283369701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's settled. < 1283369753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use Emacs < 1283369757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL is kickass < 1283369783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL? < 1283369783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really like emacs when I'm on a terminal < 1283369790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Factor thingy for Emacs < 1283369812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, run emacs -nw < 1283369812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1283369826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O I gave up on the deploy Tetris thing < 1283369829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL is the thing that turns Factor and Emacs into Smalltalk. < 1283369831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--no-window-system, -nw do not communicate with X, ignoring $DISPLAY < 1283369831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just now attempted to finish < 1283369834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I deleted stuff < 1283369834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ^ < 1283369838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, thus, terminal < 1283369843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are totally misunderstanding him < 1283369846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly purposefully. < 1283369854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot see past the pervasive fog of confusion that engulfs him. < 1283369859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? He seemed to ask for "not X mode" < 1283369863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to me < 1283369891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Huh, Vorpal's message got marked as being sent by you. < 1283369896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cpressey cannot see past the pervasive fog of confusion that engulfs him. < 1283369919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he means that when using a graphical environment rather than a command-based one, he does not enjoy using Emacs. < 1283369921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, i didn't say that.... < 1283369924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you like Smalltalk, yes? < 1283369924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stop trolling < 1283369929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes... < 1283369938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Factor + Emacs/FUEL = Smalltalk. srsly < 1283369957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right. So running it in a terminal inside a GUI environment is not enough? < 1283369998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: please find the nearest dictionary and look up "context", "environment" < 1283370036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, he said none of those words < 1283370040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I only really like emacs when I'm on a terminal" < 1283370058 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This compiler, where is it? < 1283370060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unlike you i can read words and interpret them as their meanings, rather than relying on an ultra-literal legalistic view of the world < 1283370075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you gotta pay for it. apparently if you email them they'll give it to you. try that. < 1283370081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah has it < 1283370088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eww < 1283370101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that statement is ambiguous the way "terminal" is commonly used these days. I do not assume that everyone uses "terminal emulator" when they mean that < 1283370103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah, maybe just ask Slereah for it < 1283370105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is generally not true < 1283370113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah Slereah Slereah < 1283370119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fine. < 1283370125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he will appear < 1283370339 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283370353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, you're not Slereah! < 1283370361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not < 1283370375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we summoned you inadvertently < 1283370376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Crossed wire in the summoning subsystem, I guess. < 1283370377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoo < 1283370383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hello < 1283370428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION edits the edit word, finds himself in a world populated by newspaper editors who can only say "edit" < 1283370434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283370556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in love with the one line unit test stuff < 1283370833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I love those hats of theirs. Well, visors really. They're cool. < 1283370938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283370970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1283371147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I guess I'm thinking of the guys who run the printing presses. < 1283371197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geez, here I thought this was iconic, but I can't find a single image on google of one of these dudes. < 1283371205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They wear suspenders, too, I swear! < 1283371688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283372152 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283372286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, whaaat? < 1283372313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspenders are rare nowdays though < 1283372340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw some old guy at university passing by in a corridor today, had suspenders. Noticed it due to being so rare. < 1283372419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is en_GB:braces it seems < 1283372422 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283372434 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283372918 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283373108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283373153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choochter, new here? < 1283373252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283373442 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-70.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283374039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both words work in British English < 1283374331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe not < 1283374336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283374336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suspenders" means something else over here < 1283374488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are you talking about? < 1283374507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Vorpal was saying around 40 minutes ago < 1283374712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, why does git not have a command to reset a file in the working tree to match what it is at HEAD? < 1283374746 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, "git checkout"; that was rather inconsistent with the rest of git... < 1283374900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What does "suspenders" bring to mind in UK English? < 1283374903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious. < 1283374928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"braces" would be things you wear on your teeth to straighten them in NA English... < 1283374949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they're an item of clothing that prevents long socks falling down < 1283374959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "git checkout" thing is mentioned everywhere, though. And I'm not sure how inconsistent it is; it checks out things from the repository into the working tree. < 1283374973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah yes. I've seen those, was not aware they had a name. < 1283375041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the fact that it also does branch-switching is a bit overloady. < 1283375198 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-35-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283375234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283375332 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283375423 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1283376281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283376542 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283377085 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283377089 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a question < 1283377097 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are php related irc channels so fucking useless < 1283377213 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because php is so fucking easy to understand < 1283377686 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-40-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283377757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that people on the Infinite Featureless Plane of Death walk _fast_ < 1283377775 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283377852 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283377853 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1283378170 0 :falsealarm!c0760b70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.118.11.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283378187 0 :falsealarm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283378203 0 :falsealarm!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283378268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1283378324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very self referential, should fit right in < 1283378479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or does Bochs suck now? < 1283378493 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anticipating alise response: cpressey: Bochs has always sucked.) < 1283378515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well... it's always been glacially slow. < 1283378516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, I can't even get it to boot from boot floppy images now. < 1283378533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you did something rong. < 1283378539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not using the debugger just go QEMU. < 1283378568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to make things wright, then < 1283378571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe. Bochs won't even start a display on my Ubuntu laptop; I'm using QEMU there. QEMU on Windows looks like hell, though. < 1283378648 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283378939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur augur augur < 1283378951 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise alise alise < 1283379202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the BIOS ROM image file that QEMU loads is... hardcoded? Beh < 1283379218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no. You can give it a dir name it seems. < 1283379232 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Worked! < 1283379366 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283379494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey cpressey cpressey < 1283379537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover < 1283379627 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283379651 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283379729 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283379929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the USSR's nuclear strategy against the UK < 1283380068 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380070 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Edinburgh was completely screwed. < 1283380237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283380278 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-40-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380288 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283380306 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1283380339 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are at least 16 assorted ground- and airbursts lined up for it, inexplicably. < 1283380375 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, London only has about 2 more. < 1283380406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283380428 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite having 10 times the population. < 1283380445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I would conclude from that, that Edinburgh is where the UK keeps most of *its* nukes. < 1283380456 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, *definitely* not. < 1283380474 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them would be in Rosyth and other military bases. < 1283380478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't say it was a conclusion that lined up with reality! < 1283380497 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it baffles me just as much. < 1283380521 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you wanted to decapitate Scotland, it might be helpful, but that's basically the only good reason. < 1283380557 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not to kill civilians, since Edinburgh's population isn't even half a million. < 1283380689 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a friend of mine says that it's probably due to its terrain not being very conducive to killing people. < 1283380717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283380757 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Edinburgh has loads and loads of hills. < 1283380821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Damn hills! Our infantry will never be able to get over them. Better nuke that area instead!" ? < 1283380939 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the point. < 1283380960 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hills stop radiation and shockwaves, so it wouldn't be completely levelled. < 1283381147 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283381237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ImageMagick certainly is suitable for complex editing, I have used ImageMagick for these things. < 1283381245 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they lined up lots and lots of nukes, to ensure that everyone would die. < 1283381279 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While larger cities such as London are on pretty flat ground. < 1283381372 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283381376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283381407 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283381450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need a graphical user interface, I have used Microsoft Paint and used the "clipboard:" command in ImageMagick to deal with this. This does not work in UNIX systems, though. So in UNIX systems, what I could do is invent variant programs "imx" (Image eXchange) (normal mode), "imxs" (scripting mode", and "imxg" (scripting mode with graphical user interface). < 1283381487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The GUI can use a view area, script area, and with three mouse buttons and modifier keys, you can do a lot of these operations, the function keys F1 F2 F3 and so on can also be used to select different mouse modes) < 1283381497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283381536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* zzo38 (~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com) has joined #esoteric < 1283381537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And ImageMagick certainly is suitable for complex editing, I have used ImageMagick for these things. < 1283381539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what things, exactly? < 1283381542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you failed to specify < 1283381568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Any complex things! < 1283381579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of things you can do with it! < 1283381588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have even used ImageMagick for audio manipulation! < 1283381700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc has a stack for each register, sort of like the STASH and RETRIEVE commands in INTERCAL...... < 1283382047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have to know. How can ImageMagick be used to manipulate audio?? < 1283382063 0 :olsner!~sal@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283382084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Convert audio data to image data -> apply blur filter -> convert back < 1283382112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh. < 1283382117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that would... manipulate it. < 1283382243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tell 'im, zzo38! < 1283382388 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes you are right, that is one way. < 1283382409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since ImageMagick does not support audio formats directly, you would need SoX or something else to convert the formats < 1283382425 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SoX already has many effects, but not everything < 1283382483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever write ImX (Image eXchange), then I will add in support for audio formats as well as the picture formats, and also add in "Block JPEG" format, which prevents decompressing/compressing the lossy part of a JPEG. < 1283382512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as add in some effects that are useful for audio. The DPI of the picture can be used as the sample rate for audio. < 1283382534 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283382551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DPI of the picture can be used as the sample rate for audio." < 1283382551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1283382556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1283382564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs < 1283382572 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one inch per second? < 1283382580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what she said. < 1283382627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I guess so, that can work. < 1283382660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes a bug in Factor < 1283382662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::fuckyeah: < 1283382726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a bug in the Brainfuck implementation.) < 1283382959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen a 2600 FAQ that says that shell scripts with SUID can be security hole if you rename it (or make a link to it), called "-i". Can you fix this by changing the shebang like to "#!/bin/bash --" will it work? < 1283383037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1283383044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make suid shell scripts though < 1283383056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern kernels don't accept suid scripts < 1283383061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only binaries < 1283383100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the SUID just have no effects for shell scripts? Or will it expect the file to be a binary if it has SUID, and say the file is an invalid executable file? < 1283383106 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the frmer < 1283383108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*former < 1283383215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, that doesn't fix it < 1283383229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it fixes that bug, but not another security bug with suid shell scripts < 1283383265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that if you access the shellscript via a path where one of the directories in it is a symlink, then you can retarget that symlink between the check to see if the script is suid, and the shell actually reading the script < 1283383272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get the shell to run some other script suid < 1283383471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, that is another thing, I forgot < 1283383477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I know < 1283383509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the kernel just have to hold on to the realpath of the executable to avoid that hole? < 1283383542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AwesomePressions: S-Expression apart from (...) | Base-10 number n followed by n AwesomePressions, forming a list. < 1283383545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 define 2 id x x < 1283383549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as: AwfulPressions < 1283383560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variant: AwesomeBinaryPressions < 1283383561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 define 10 id x x < 1283383853 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283383914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many ideas of things that can be added/changed in Linux, one idea is the /proc/$$/9p/ directory < 1283383971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is Simple Executable File Format < 1283384055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is, a way to tell it to run another program with overriding some or all system calls, and possibly some other features too < 1283384077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What was the name of that amazing jump game me and oklopol got addicted to? < 1283384090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had the level 100 code for it, I believe. < 1283384575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"level 100"? < 1283384627 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing this with "100level" < 1283384655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it had 100 levels + some bonuses < 1283384667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wondering if this was some new language for writing games. < 1283384669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dot Action 2! That was it. < 1283384726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact/ < 1283384726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact2/ < 1283384733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact2_c/ ;; create your own levels! < 1283384737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1283384755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrm < 1283384758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal is to get all the dots, cpressey. < 1283384763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to know Japanese. < 1283384767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrow keys move. Space jumps. < 1283384769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still loading the /emulator/? < 1283384770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun. < 1283384773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's not an emulator. < 1283384776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just fake emulator-text. < 1283384780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's loading all the levels. < 1283384782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh kay < 1283384796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dot Action 2 is the best < 1283384798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this will take some time < 1283384800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd load that if I were you < 1283384805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am. < 1283384820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is really slow from that site < 1283384830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283384832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way, way quicker. < 1283384840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeeeeed < 1283384841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE operates the menus. < 1283384857 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st menu item ok? < 1283384869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283384877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be fooled by the simplistic starting levels. It becomes pure gaming itself soon enough! < 1283384904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is genuinely amazing. < 1283384924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283384926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes... shall we say, almost impossible near the end. < 1283384981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Stage 5 is the first "haha wow" one. < 1283385017 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. Made it to stage 2. Will continue later, I'm releasing Eightebed right now. < 1283385030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has navigates bureaucracy succesfully < 1283385031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, past stage 2. < 1283385033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICTOLY < 1283385185 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283385265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, and Enter pauses so you can quit. < 1283385277 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283385535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do mana symbols like this: \def\R{\redmanalayer\rlap\manasymcircle\manasymred\textlayer} < 1283385597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where \redmanalayer and \textlayer are specials) < 1283385709 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, that was wrong, this is correct: \def\R{\redmanalayer\rlap\manasymcircle\textlayer\manasymred} < 1283385813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting program: /home/ehird/jonesforth/jonesforth < 1283385814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :During startup program terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed. < 1283385814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why? < 1283385829 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know why? < 1283385842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems the -Wl,-Ttext,0 < 1283385921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yap will not render a page with unknown specials. < 1283386012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is OK, since I will write a DVI driver for this purpose, so you won't need other ones.) < 1283386053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem I still have is how I should implement text that is stretched only horizontally, and not vertically, in TeX and DVI. < 1283386150 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "ZET:"? < 1283386163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how long the red dot you just got will last < 1283386179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But what does it *do*? < 1283386184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the red dot stops the electric fences (what everyone thinks they are; I however belong to the "lava that keeps its shape" school of thought) from killing you < 1283386192 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhh < 1283386362 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Eightebed 1.0 has been released. http://catseye.tc/projects/eightebed/ < 1283386432 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning, I get to think about something else for a while. < 1283386519 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It occurs to me that you may care about the above announcement! < 1283386571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But you DEFINED IT WRONG! < 1283386572 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283386577 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww. < 1283386602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are no functions in Eightebed." XD < 1283386624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, it's not a complexity problem.) < 1283386626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Functions would change nothing... I explain that. < 1283386631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just amusing. < 1283386643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is somewhat that. < 1283386653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consists only of the expression ifvalid x < 1283386655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "valid" < 1283386661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOO BOY TIME FOR EIGHTEBED 1.1 < 1283386710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh drat. I just found a tiny bug in the implementation too (in the -t option) so I will probably upload a bugfix. But, uh. Not today. < 1283386758 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahahahahah @ "runtime support" < 1283386776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Legal Issues is my favourite section < 1283386778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We implement this without a GC by stuffing most of a GC into the free function, thereby making it just as slow as a GC'd language with none of the advantages! < 1283386796 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1283386817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when are you allowed to free? Only in an if valid block? < 1283386819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, cpressey/Gregor is such a fun antagonistic relationship with obvious closeted underlying homosexuality. < 1283386824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I said nothing. < 1283386832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You strange, strange people with your caring about "slow" and your "advantages". < 1283386879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can only dereference in the "safe start" of an if valid block, i.e. before you make any assignments. You can free anytime, but if it's already free, nothing happens./ < 1283386901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could have made free follow the same rules as dereferencing. Didn't. < 1283386908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And if you have an alias that's in an if-valid block? < 1283386944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't follow, but if I do, the answer is: you need another if valid. < 1283387004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var ptr to int a; var ptr to int b; ... a = b = malloc int; if valid a { free(b); /* exception thrown? What? */ } < 1283387029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The block is freed and both a and b are invalidated. < 1283387044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're in an "if valid a" block. < 1283387065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, good point. That could be a hole requiring redefinition of what a "safe start" is. < 1283387073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to the first assignment *or free*. < 1283387129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, although you have managed to fit my requirements, I am wildly underwhelmed :P < 1283387230 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283387249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "You win! But, whatever ;;(" < 1283387259 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overwhelmingly underwhelmed? < 1283387267 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or merely wildly? < 1283387285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Just my inner homosexual tendencies towards cpressey preventing me from being too antagonistic, right? X-P < 1283387295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283387297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1283387311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to seem like you care too much! :'( < 1283387369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. The next time a dispute like this comes up, it will instead be settled by match of Greco-Roman wrestling. < 1283387433 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283387437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. I realize how little it proves. But it was fun to do. < 1283387460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, unfortunately I must be off now. Evening, all. < 1283387466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye cpressey < 1283387469 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, were you discussing the memory-safe language again? < 1283387485 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283387503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283387504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he released it < 1283387508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's broken :P < 1283387510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stage 15! < 1283387529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language? < 1283387539 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eightebed? < 1283387542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283387575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really annoying thing about Factor: There are no tutorials for a lot of stuff. The object-oriented stuff seems awesome, but it may be inaccessible to many due to having to dig through reference stuff < 1283387579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should write a tutorial on it < 1283387608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reference stuff has tutorials < 1283387615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no objects < 1283387630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, well, the class stuff < 1283387643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: seriously, go to the reference; go up the directory to the topic (it has breadcrumbs) < 1283387647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENERIC: < 1283387648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be a link to documentation < 1283387648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M: < 1283387649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283387652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are tuples < 1283387682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought tuples were the things with slots < 1283387687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>someslot someslot>> < 1283387688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283387694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283387696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed they are < 1283387708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no classes < 1283387723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283387727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are < 1283387730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's tuple and union classes < 1283387734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tuples are what you are thinking of < 1283387739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mixins < 1283387753 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh," If complications persist, another, less contentious name (such as "Microsoft Windows 7") may need to be chosen for this language." < 1283388459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm? < 1283388512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eightebed < 1283388603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, linky? Doesn't seem to be in wiki < 1283388610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Google's useless < 1283388612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am looking at the Kitsilano oscillator. It says it is sensitive to your hands? < 1283388617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: See very recent messagse. < 1283388632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, cpressey is the Cat's Eye guy? < 1283388635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ? < 1283388658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ty for not making me look through logs < 1283388680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, n/m < 1283388689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YW < 1283388749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I head straight for the esoteric programming category instead of seeing the news < 1283388795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes that is what it says, but after adding one resistor it worked < 1283388805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/kitsilano/kitsilano.html < 1283388824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the discussion in the logs is quite important though < 1283388869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, how well will it work, if you put a speaker instead of LED, and make all capacitors and resistors vary? < 1283388920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a circuit at the top that only works with old-style headphones. Is it possible to make a circuit that only works with red LEDs? (And if you put a green LED it won't work?) < 1283389179 0 :Gregor-CP!~AndChat@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283389215 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I's got a fake Chinese iPad! < 1283389266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you spend any money on that? < 1283389275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that Gregor-CP is made out of money < 1283389304 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a pretty decent wage at MSR < 1283389329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple Sclerosis eRotica < 1283389378 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, I bought this off a friend for half its already low price : < 1283389394 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1283389397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the next Microsoft Allegiance! < 1283389434 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs Android, albeit on a hilariously slow processor. < 1283389514 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however slow it is, I doubt it's hilarious... it's probably not even funny < 1283389516 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283389541 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283389578 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me laugh :P < 1283389585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, that game < 1283389594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IS HORRIBLE AAARGH IM ON STAGE 32 OISJFOIDFGSOFIG < 1283389608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what about it < 1283389611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck on the first part of level 1 < 1283389618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1283389618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1283389623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure the construction version is the best place to start? < 1283389628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to avoid the fatal electric stuff < 1283389633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can't jump high enough < 1283389652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The construction version sucks < 1283389655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283389658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play Dot Action 2 < 1283389661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This mirror is much faster) < 1283389737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I bother Google Translating? < 1283389741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1283389743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need it < 1283389759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what's the construction version? < 1283389761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This level is not it < 1283389780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283389781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play this < 1283389806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1283389817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what was that contstruction version thing all about? < 1283389907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it lets you make your own levels < 1283389908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1283389927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is ZET? < 1283389938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, let me make a guess < 1283389956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess is correct :D < 1283389979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And armed with that knowledge, I go to attempt the construction version again < 1283390003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No < 1283390005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only has one level < 1283390005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1283390008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play the proper one < 1283390010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much better < 1283390129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stage 5 was fun < 1283390143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which < 1283390158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on 32 of da2 < 1283390206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I screwed myself over on stage 6 < 1283390213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With multiple upside-down dots < 1283390268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me hmms < 1283390517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes how sections of levels can be timed < 1283390600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE LEVEL 32 SO MUCH < 1283390655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ran out of time grr < 1283390675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON TO 33 YAY < 1283390842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at level 10 < 1283390847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know exactly how to solve it < 1283390890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 1 second left, I got it! < 1283390935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1 TIME < 1283390938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME != second < 1283390982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't figure out level 12 < 1283390983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, 11 < 1283390991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe jump is just a LITTLE too big < 1283391003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 time < 1283391010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1283391170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stage 14 was fun < 1283391308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage 16 requires some intellect < 1283391511 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese iPad ripoff: still workin'! < 1283391615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-CP: Awesome. < 1283391697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, now that I actually have to drive regularly, I have developed *quite* an appreciation for classical radio stations. < 1283391711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY? Do you have a not-terrible one? < 1283391733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* it's not-terrible. It *certainly* sucks less than all other radio stations in the area! < 1283391736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Portland one is great, the Purdue one is OK. Neither of them have any great ability to stick to themes, they just sort of wander aimlessly over all music. < 1283391771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classical music has themes? < 1283391773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283391779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Very much so. < 1283391797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBC sometimes plays classical music. They play other music too sometimes, and also news, and other things. < 1283391801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like classical music < 1283391801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disappears for fifteen minutes. < 1283391826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The one here (Colorado Springs) pretty much goes "Okay, we're just going to go with $theme for the next little bit." < 1283391885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING PIECE OF < 1283391905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's nice & non-profit. < 1283392182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just FYI: I'm presuming it's a damned good thing I have yet to hear on there something I'm actually familiar with. :P < 1283392469 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283392474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283392493 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283392650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAGE 38 IS PURE PAIN < 1283392746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one idea, that you could make processor instruction set with no direct jump command, only a indirect jump command where the value of a register is the address of the next address < 1283392773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: quite a few esolangs work like that < 1283392873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, although what I mean is something like this: if 02AA is the destination address and 02 is the instruction and FF is the instruction pointer register: 02FF02AA < 1283392920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how an indirect jump is done on PICs (you assign to the program counter, which is memory-mapped), but it has a direct jump instruction too < 1283393029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;____; < 1283393463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283393852 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283394195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has troubles with stage 18 < 1283394367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 is evil < 1283394664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 is oidsjfodisjgoitjhnog < 1283394929 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283395079 0 :Gregor-CP!~AndChat@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283395166 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283395167 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283395167 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283395578 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283395582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283395921 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283395921 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283395921 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283397391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: : postpone r> dup , >r ; < 1283397393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is right < 1283397401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in jonesforth at least < 1283397425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1283397433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't, of course < 1283397441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, whatever :) < 1283398431 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283398650 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283398694 0 :Gregor-CP!~AndChat@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283399149 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283399192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283399201 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283399723 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283399795 0 :Gregor-CP!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1283399885 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283399970 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283399970 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283399970 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283400357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A+B - in programming contests, classic problem, which is given so contestants can gain familiarity with online judging system being used. < 1283400358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+B is one of few problems on contests, which traditionally lacks fabula." < 1283400360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat < 1283400361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283400368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess traditionally lacks score or whatever < 1283400396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be quite worried if it were worth points. < 1283400473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at Math being under "Arts & Sciences" at his school < 1283400473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is an interesting look at forth philosophy, btw: http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html < 1283400476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not utterly robust < 1283400484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is sort of a science < 1283400688 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283400700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: A New Kind of Science, if you will. < 1283400713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1283400724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves to avoid lynching < 1283400727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283400736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't get it < 1283400747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wolfram. < 1283400755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: The Source of All Ego. < 1283400836 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283401031 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283401031 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283401031 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283401443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ "The Source of All Ego" < 1283402932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cat compiler /does/ do type checking; evidence: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2319#comment-34783 < 1283402937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he mentions things producing type errors < 1283402938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa 2007 < 1283403000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a flame war regarding concatenative languages from 2005 < 1283403011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, stack effects weren't automatically checked back then < 1283403026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a new thing, with the optimising compiler. < 1283403098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1283403099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively new. < 1283403186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/900 < 1283403227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronunciation is a bit too close to cunt for comfort :) < 1283403442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whoever: I discovered how colorForth does interpreted code. < 1283403447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a different, non-green colour. < 1283403453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's no real stop-defining delimiter thing. < 1283403455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fizzie asked. < 1283403458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it cpressey? < 1283403460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. Hmm. < 1283404051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: : fact 1- if dup fact 1+ * else 1+ then ; < 1283404052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1283404054 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283404091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a colorForth-style-; and an if that doesn't drop like the i21: < 1283404092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: fact 1- if fact 1+ * ; then 1+ ; < 1283404128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look like Factor < 1283404171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Forth, of a sort < 1283404183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter would work on the i21 and nothing else :-) < 1283404194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ultratechnology.com/1xforth.htm is a very good read btw < 1283404195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight < 1283404197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283404602 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283405146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1283405826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283405838 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283406677 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p549729CF.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283406874 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283410721 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283410728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please read this Article III: http://www.fftw.org/y2k.html < 1283411618 0 :cheater-!~cheater@p5B216A8E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283411618 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283412260 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283412566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283413157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twasn't me. < 1283413261 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283414399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283414400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283414446 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283416615 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283419518 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-40-169.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283424085 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283425607 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283426462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283426782 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283429809 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283432799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283433453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Terminal_Event_Management_Policy < 1283433896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the level 1 warning template. < 1283433918 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283433928 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283434116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283435674 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283438299 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283438681 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283439661 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5BA7.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283439780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283439800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I like level 1 as well. < 1283439985 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283440090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283440193 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283440213 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders why GHCi doesn't allow the definition of types < 1283440553 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how Coq does implicit parameters. < 1283440676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: because ghci executes in a do block < 1283440683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason you have to proceed functions with "let" < 1283440686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cleverly. < 1283440692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: brödrost < 1283440694 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With forall? < 1283440729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ?? < 1283440733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has forall got to do with it? < 1283440745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all function arrows A->B are really just "forall (_:A), B" but you know that) < 1283440753 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A misconception, obviously. < 1283440758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRÖDROST sounds somehow heavy-metallish. (Also I'm reminded of a nice absurdist comic, but it's very Finnish-only, so the point might be lost.) < 1283440807 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, so how do they work? < 1283440825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you didn't know that? < 1283440827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1283440828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283440831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1283440833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: cleverly. < 1283440840 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not too helpful... < 1283440842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It means "toaster". < 1283440857 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the best name for a heavy metal band ever. < 1283440864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know, but it *ought* to mean church-burning or something. < 1283440869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: an implicit parameter is filled in when its value is obvious from the types of the others, or something approximating that anyway < 1283440891 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so it just does it automatically? < 1283440893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use an implicit parameter on the argument specifying a type or component of a type of another argument, usually < 1283440906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: well, in declarations you can do {x:...} to make it implicit < 1283440913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it just sort of tries to make everything it can implicit, yes < 1283440913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1283440915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do < 1283440922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set Implicit Arguments functionOrDataType [arg arg arg]. < 1283440935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({x:...} rather than (x:...)) < 1283442088 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283442262 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-89.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283442665 0 :mr45!WinNT@cpc2-hudd9-0-0-cust396.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283442853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283442860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about brödrost? < 1283442892 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, it seems completely non-sequitur... < 1283442908 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish Phantom < 1283442919 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phuntum < 1283442932 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish bread < 1283442935 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breed < 1283442947 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate en se Phantom < 1283442950 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en se Phantom < 1283442951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or did you ask me for a translation? In that case it means "toaster" (literal translation: bread toaster) < 1283442975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283443000 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Brodrost < 1283443018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brod is not a Swedish word afaik < 1283443265 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swedish Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers < 1283443267 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeghty Murpheen' Pooer Rungers < 1283443282 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers < 1283443288 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeghty Murpheen' Pooer Rungers < 1283443889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He already said it means toaster, so I doubt it was about translation. < 1283443916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't have any clue what it *was* about.) < 1283443920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away.) < 1283444016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1283444202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283444252 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283444283 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-89.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283444408 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283444607 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283444634 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283444790 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously want to murder whoever pulled the plug on Geocities. < 1283444991 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would murder cpressey for playing hopscotch with Cat's Eye, but he's too lovable. < 1283445060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1283445426 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283445512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I have a theory. While terminals display block letters, files contain cursive. I say this because it's always "print" to put stuff on the screen and "write" to put stuff in a file. < 1283445544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1283446605 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283447442 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283448427 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283448485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1283448496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I would murder cpressey for playing hopscotch with Cat's Eye, but he's too lovable. < 1283448496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -_- < 1283448499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually have a template for your site < 1283448503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{catseye|path}} < 1283448514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it moves so much < 1283448544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: try s/g/r/ in the url, btw < 1283448547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be lucky < 1283448572 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's been fixed at catseye.tc for a while now. < 1283448585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but iirc there were a bunch of broken links to the old site on the wiki < 1283448593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just replaced every catseye link with a template < 1283448595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set it to catseye.tc < 1283448608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:Catseye < 1283448614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Catseye&action=edit < 1283448698 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1283448716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you seen PicoLisp? it's an interesting very-small, very-fast Lisp dialect interpreter < 1283448720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://picolisp.com/5000/-2.html < 1283448740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some interesting choices, like 'a -> (quote . a), '(a b) -> (quote a b) < 1283448742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(explained in http://picolisp.com/5000/-2-3.html) < 1283448765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they base more or less everything on the cell < 1283448775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically a cons with a few predefined car/cdr types < 1283448777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc: < 1283448793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell := ((int | symbol | cell), (int | symbol | cell)) < 1283448804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 32-bit one is written in C, 64-bit in asm < 1283448818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it seems to be some assembler written in PicoLisp; it appears to have if/then/else < 1283448820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*else) < 1283448830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting representation of NIL: http://picolisp.com/5000/-2-M.html < 1283448834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This structure has great advantages. Any proper list (ending with 'NIL') becomes sort of "infinite", allowing to take the CDR as often as possible and still obtain 'NIL' again and again. < 1283448834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, a function doesn't need to check whether it actually received an argument or not. It can simply take the next argument with CDR from the argument list, and doesn't see any difference between '(foo NIL)' and '(foo)'. This makes interpretation both simpler and faster." < 1283448839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make it both a symbol and a cons < 1283448896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds vaguely familiar < 1283448901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to do that with... something < 1283448906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets linked a bit (PicoLisp) < 1283448917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, the language itself is interesting! reading the wiki is fun < 1283448965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they have no lambda < 1283448967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use quote < 1283448969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'((x) x) < 1283448973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> (quote (x) x) < 1283448990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this probably means they use dynamic scope, but I don't care, it's fun < 1283448996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283448999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do you use dynamic variable binding?" < 1283449003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://software-lab.de/doc/faq.html#dynamic < 1283449064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You mean the funarg problem, or problems that arise when a variable might be bound to itself? For that reason we have a convention in PicoLisp to use transient symbols (instead of internal symbols) ..." < 1283449067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1283449071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's certainly interesting < 1283449329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quylthylg has an extra argument to car and cdr which specifies what to return if you try to use them on a nil. Passing nil as that argument would be similar to that behaviour. < 1283449336 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, would be that behaviour, actually. < 1283449382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, PicoLisp looks quite interesting in its way. < 1283449389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, they have no strings, they just use transient symbols < 1283449396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because PicoLisp has something better: Transient symbols. They look and behave like strings in any respect, but are nevertheless true symbols, with a value cell and a property list. < 1283449396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This leads to interesting opportunities. The value cell, for example, can point to other data that represent the string's the translation. This is used extensively for localization. When a program calls < 1283449396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (prinl "Good morning!") < 1283449396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then changing the value of the symbol "Good morning!" to its translation will change the program's output at runtime. < 1283449420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Transient symbols are also quite memory-conservative. As they are stored in normal heap cells, no additional overhead for memory management is induced. The cell holds the symbol's value in its CDR, and the tail in its CAR. If the string is not longer than 7 bytes, it fits (on the 64-bit version) completely into the tail, and a single cell suffices. Up to 15 bytes take up two cells, 23 bytes three etc., so that long strings are not very efficient (needing < 1283449420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : twice the memory on the avarage), but this disadvantage is made up by simplicity and uniformity. And lots of extremely long strings are not the common case, as they are split up anyway during processing, and stored as plain byte sequences in external files and databases.]] < 1283449431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then changing the value of the symbol "Good morning!" to its translation will change the program's output at runtime. ;; this is just the greatest, most insane thing i've heard today < 1283449463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In an interactive environment (console), transient symbols should appear as an underlined sequence of characters. Where this is not possible (e.g. for representation in files), or inconvenient (while editing), double quotes '"' are used instead of underlining.]] ;; huh < 1283449566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PicoLisp? Hm? What makes it stand out from other LISPs? < 1283449581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *Lisps; and read everything I've said (plus the wiki). < 1283449588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tl;dr < 1283449602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is not my problem. < 1283449853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Their symbols appear to be constructed as '(value . name)/ < 1283449858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. name). < 1283449866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with some property list stuff on the side, I guess. < 1283449941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For the third rule, however, things get a bit more involved. First - as a special case - if the CAR of the list is a number, the whole list is returned as it is:]] That is a bit gross though. < 1283449968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When a number is used as a function, it is simply taken as a pointer to executable code that will be called with the list of (unevaluated) arguments as its single parameter. It is up to that code to evaluate the arguments, or not. Some functions do not evaluate their arguments (e.g. quote) or evaluate only some of their arguments (e.g. setq)." < 1283449985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Forth! Except LISP! < 1283449995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was shouting Lisp, not miscapitalising it.) < 1283450018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inspecting the VAL of *, however, gives < 1283450018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: * # Get the VAL of the symbol '*' < 1283450018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> 67291944 < 1283450021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually quite cool. < 1283450063 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you are shouting for Val, but she's not here! < 1283450136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a quote :P < 1283450159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, as a typographical matter, Lisp function names may be capitalised (when you can't distinguish them in some other way, e.g. monospaced text). < 1283450162 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mine was a joke. I unfortunately don't have the time to read about and play with PicoLisp either. < 1283450172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads to fun things like saying CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION. < 1283450180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL WITH IT, DAMMIT!! < 1283450208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, the REPL actually matches parens and does the "foo" -> underline{foo} thing as you type. < 1283450222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: sdgkopegjser09jt < 1283450222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> NIL < 1283450222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283450322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? (car '*) < 1283450323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> 67319368 < 1283450323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? (cdr '*) < 1283450323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!? (cdr '*) < 1283450323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -- List expected < 1283450338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they only typecheck when they really have to :) < 1283450472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Do you know anything about the performance of x86 instructions? < 1283450552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about that, but what little I know leads me to suggest that you can't say anything (or at least not much) about "x86 instructions" in a general sense, without talking about a single specific processor model. < 1283450555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can help a bit < 1283450557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1283450623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone are the days you could cycle-count anything, anyway. It's all about what sort of units happen to be free for scheduling, and memory-access times are pretty much random. < 1283450640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, AMD and Intel both have tables over number of cycles per instructions in their modern architectures. As downloadable PDFs. However that is of course not the whole story, there is cache, wb/wc/uc, TLB misses and so on < 1283450648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my question is: are the push-and-popping stack instructions faster than Just Doing It Yourself? < 1283450659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the AMD docs indicate which ones are done in microcode iirc < 1283450667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also how it stalls stuff < 1283450683 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if intel docs do < 1283450690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that depends on which CPU < 1283450692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1283450708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They could be slower? Or merely equal? < 1283450710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on many CPUs just setting the stack pointer at the start of a function and then using mov is faster < 1283450719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many modern ones that is < 1283450735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, due to instruction dependencies iirc < 1283450743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on %rsp < 1283450744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push and pop at least save in code size, and it would be a bit surprising if they were much slower than the equivalent manual "decrement and store/load and increment" pair. < 1283450758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I'd be setting the stack pointer to something manifestly not the usual stack in this case < 1283450771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? How do you mean < 1283450773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are there variants of push and pop which also take the stack? i suppose not < 1283450792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess saving the stack pointer, setting the stack pointer, doing push (or pop), then restoring the stack pointer is slower than the manual way, though. < 1283450798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just one operation.) < 1283450806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it may be a good idea to use it for the main stack but manually handle the return stack. < 1283450857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway for the usual "common C function not using alloca or VLA" it is on modern cpus generally faster to increment %rsp by whatever amount you need, then use mov to put things on the stack relative that pointer < 1283450864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no C < 1283450871 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283450873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, this could apply to other languages too < 1283450887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any compiled ones where you know the size of your stack frame at entry < 1283450892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically, this thing is going to execute a ludicrous amounts of pushes and pops per second. < 1283450893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it being forth < 1283450914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... You could probably optimise the code? < 1283450930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1283450941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is a stack language. Its whole operation is based on pushing and popping. < 1283450942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, an optimising forth compiler. Yes I know this is not the usual way to do it < 1283450949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am merely asking whether these are faster than using mov manually. < 1283450956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need implementation tips... < 1283450956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could make one that tries to convert it to using registers and such < 1283450970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an optimising Forth compiler goes against the spirit of Forth, anyway < 1283450975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your code shouldn't be wasting time in the first place < 1283450976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway: several pushes after each other will all update %rsp/%esp. < 1283450986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that means they can't be executed out of order < 1283450998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for pop < 1283451000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it won't be several pushes immediately < 1283451003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mixed series of push/pop < 1283451013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be push, push, ..., pop, push, push, ... < 1283451021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... being e.g. a jmp or two < 1283451022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283451025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jmp and incrementing something < 1283451026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1283451044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, better to, if possible, update %rsp once when entering the function, then use mov using %rsp for indirection < 1283451112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mass migration of Digg users to reddit started a few days before September began in the incorrect (post-09/1993) calendar < 1283451115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence? I think not. < 1283451127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this applies to modern CPUs. Not sure where exactly it becomes more efficient. But it push/pop would most likely be better on a i486. And update-once-and-mov would definitely be better on P4 and later. < 1283451134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in between... I don't know < 1283451155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is between mov, inc, mov, inc and push < 1283451158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same for pop) < 1283451184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, what about "save stack pointer, set the stack pointer to something else, (1 push or pop), restore the stack pointer"? < 1283451189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, why could you not merge does movs into an add, then do relative addressing < 1283451189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to do exactly the pushing operation ("decrement a register, move a word to where it points"), my guess is it'll be better to push than sub 4 + mov, if you can keep the thing in rsp; but possibly not if it's in some other register. (Though I'm not completely certain about that: it's possible register-renaming trickery could make xchg+push+xchg pretty fast.) < 1283451191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gotta be slower than a mov-based incantation right? < 1283451210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like >+>>++> would be optimised in any decent BF compiler < 1283451214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by just moving once < 1283451223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as i said, the fight is between precisely those options i listed < 1283451224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then using an offset to the current position as needed < 1283451246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then I suspect push/pop is somewhat less bad. < 1283451252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Specifically, the swap-the-stack-for-one-instruction thing would be when running r> and >r, which pop or push one value from/to the return stack from/to the main stack. < 1283451252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but try both and profile! < 1283451257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1283451265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... what? < 1283451273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So it would be "pop, xchg, push, xchg" or "xchg, pop, xchg, push" < 1283451348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sounds somewhat reasonable. < 1283451366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what exactly is wrong with combining several updates to the stack pointer and then use offsets relative where it points? < 1283451367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1283451388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is, vs "pop, inc, mov" or "mov, dec, push". < 1283451399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Respectively. < 1283451412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember on x86_64 you may put temp data in a 128 byte region beyond the stack pointer. Any signal handler or such won't overwrite that. Specified in the ABI < 1283451423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful for leaf functions to avoid updating stack pointer at all < 1283451491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "push" is not "inc, mov", it grows the other direction. But anyway. Really, you *could* consider benchmarking this stuff; after you get it working, it's a small snippet to change and run your benchmarks. < 1283451507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1283451523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but he refused to do proper measurements above: " Vorpal: no." < 1283451534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That was just to upset you, though. < 1283451550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, it was just stupidity on your side. I'm sure of it. < 1283451553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Er, right, you know what I mean with the alternative. < 1283451574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You /do/ realise that I've only been actually listening and talking to fizzie this whole time? < 1283451604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, strange you highlighted me several times then. < 1283451621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but sure. Be a jerk if that is what you like < 1283451623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes; to annoy you. < 1283451656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll < 1283451668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. Perhaps you'll ignore me now? < 1283451703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no. That would be what you want. < 1283451721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283451751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, however I will remember to never try to be helpful when you ask a question again. < 1283451820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as code size is concerned, it's a very slight win. "pop, xchg, push, xchg" is 2+1+2+1=6 bytes (or 1+1+1+1=4 if your other stack is in rax, but that doesn't sound feasible) while "pop, sub 4, mov [rx]" is 1+3+3=7 bytes, or 1+3+4=8 if your other stack is in rbp. < 1283451855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah; I think I will go with the xchg. < 1283451859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since there's operations like rswap. < 1283451881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you can swap the top two values of a stack without popping them. < 1283451884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that will not actually be any longer. < 1283451913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your other stack is in rsi and you keep the direction flag set properly, you can use lodsq as a single-byte-instruction pop (but push will still be longer). < 1283451945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stick to regular stacks. < 1283451975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchging the top two values of a stack will be faster than popping and pushing twice, I assume :P < 1283452014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that, because xchg against memory will do LOCK automatically even if you don't put the LOCK prefix in. < 1283452052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course you don't need to pop, pop, push, push since the stack pointer won't move, just mov things around, possibly with some offsets. < 1283452080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and the lodsq fake-"pop" can only pop into rax.) < 1283452117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, it's just moving. < 1283452132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On something like ARM, all your stack pointers would be general-purpose registers and you'd have pre/post-increment/decrement addressing with any register you want.) < 1283452201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And on a more austere RISC, you'd just have load/store and separate add/sub, and no nonsense about one-register-only pushing.) < 1283452357 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283452487 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283452574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gads, x86 instructions are ridiculous. XLATB: does "mov al, [rbx+al]" (hypothetical, since you could normally only [rbx+rax], but anyway) -- "This instruction is often used to translate data from one format (such as ASCII) to another (such as EBCDIC)." Yeah, I do asm-optimized ascii-ebcdic translation all the time. (I wonder if gcc can generate xlat for "unsigned char x, i, *p; x = p[i];" sort of code.) < 1283452665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283452776 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283452809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, guesstimating performance with a speculative-execution register-renaming superscalar thing is probably something that makes any statemets very context-sensitive ("if you have A, B, C and D, option 1 will be faster; ..."). I couldn't find out late numbers, but apparently already the P4 had 128 general-purpose registers it could use for register-renaming, and my guess is that a reg-reg xchg would be done by that machinery. < 1283452912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly name for a Lisp: Lips < 1283452967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of punny names possible for related paraphernalia, I guess. < 1283452992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, or Slip. < 1283453062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there are any well-written single-file bignum things? < 1283453066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMP is just a bit too big for me to be happy < 1283453068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*happy. < 1283453186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the worst bignum implementation ever. but it's single-file! (I got sidetracked on a C programming course "calculate character histogram" home exercise, and wrote one with a bignum lib and multibyte character support.) < 1283453219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What license? :-P < 1283453242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find it, but you really don't want to use it. :p < 1283453252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, but I might want to modify it and use it. < 1283453261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I can store every number just as a pair of bignums and call it a rational. < 1283453272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, a not-necessarily-reduced rational.) < 1283453278 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5BA7.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283453355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure you even want to use that as a base; it's pretty simple to make a integer bignum thing which uses an array of unsigned ints as the storage format. < 1283453370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recall what the course code was, or what year I did it. < 1283453447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's eaten my bignums. < 1283453464 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them? < 1283453477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But exponentation and the like! < 1283453480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exponentiation < 1283453494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is... impossible! Or, < 1283453496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am lazy! < 1283453508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, I wonder what algorithms people use to approximate sqrt() on rationals. < 1283453526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I doubt I have any non-trivial algorithms in the file, if I can find it. No FFT-based multiplications for me there. < 1283453543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Who needs bignums rihgt now? < 1283453560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do property lists exist? < 1283453583 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, presumably the same algorithms as for naturals. < 1283453597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: ...For sqrt()? < 1283453609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(2) = 1! < 1283453641 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh? < 1283453656 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, naturals -> rationals. < 1283453658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: I'm asking what algorithm people use to calculate approximate_sqrt : Q -> Q. < 1283453701 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ignoring complexes, approx_sqrt : N → Q on numerator and denominator... < 1283453718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1283453723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what of that algorithm? < 1283453798 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how is it done normally? < 1283453805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my question! Sheesh. < 1283453813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fizzie: re performance of x86 instructions: omg yes, with pipelines and prefetching and the cache hierarchy, you just kind of ... guess. < 1283453875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, a symbol is a name and a value. < 1283453878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul Zimmermann, “Karatsuba Square Root”, INRIA Research Report 3805, November 1999, http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/07/28/54/PDF/RR-3805.pdf < 1283453878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283453887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically writing PicoLisp: The Ripoff here. < 1283453893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's yet another of those FFT-based algorithms.) < 1283453903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no thx < 1283453931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not, actually. < 1283453954 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for nats? < 1283453965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Anyway, guesstimating performance with a speculative-execution register-renaming superscalar thing is probably something that makes any statemets very context-sensitive ("if you have A, B, C and D, option 1 will be faster; ..."). I couldn't find out late numbers, but apparently already the P4 had 128 general-purpose registers it could use for register-renaming, and my guess is that a reg-reg xc < 1283453965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg would be done by that machinery. <-- Hm... And still the AMD64 instruction set doesn't expose nearly as many < 1283453967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sad < 1283453968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: Yes. < 1283453969 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that gets me about optimizing generated machine code in the modern world is, really, how do you *know* your code is faster? A benchmark? Yeah, those're realistic. :/ < 1283453969 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods_of_computing_square_roots < 1283454027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suspect having 64 out of 128 programmer visible GPR would be a way better trade-off than the small number that x86_64 has < 1283454051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oho, that's clever. In PicoLisp, a symbol's address is actually one after its name. < 1283454061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So **sym dereferences it.) < 1283454069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since the value comes after the name.) < 1283454190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm yes... higher level optimisations are probably more useful in general for a compiler. Still there are some things you can do at that low level. And both AMD and Intel have optimisation guides aimed at compiler writers. < 1283454208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the very famous and very clever Quake "1/sqrt(x)" approximation, but that's decidedly floating-point: float invsqrt(float x) { float xh = 0.5f * x; int i = *(int*)&x; i = 0x5f3759d5 - (i >> 1); x = *(float*)&i; return x*(1.5f - xhalf*x*x); } < 1283454221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit on the non-obvious side. < 1283454256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I sort of don't want floating point. < 1283454272 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-54-148.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283454351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think SSEn for some n>=2 has some instruction for inverse of square root < 1283454367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1283454376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was mixing up Swedish name for the operation < 1283454378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the English < 1283454464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reciprocal is the English word, invers is used in Swedish. < 1283454473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse square root is also used in English < 1283454478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, e.g. what fizzie just quoted < 1283454481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Quake code.) < 1283454485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSQRT[PS]S; reciprocal square root packed/scalar single-precision floating-point. < 1283454524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE dropped the trigonometrics, though; I wonder how they do sin(x) nowadays. < 1283454526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but inverse makes me think of f⁻¹ < 1283454543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then "inverse square root" would be stupid. < 1283454546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being "square". < 1283454551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, exactly! < 1283454562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that isn't what it is used to mean. < 1283454601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well "inverse function" for most other things mean that < 1283454624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone actually says "inverse f" for f^-1. < 1283454627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f's inverse, maybe. < 1283454627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so it is kind of ambiguous < 1283454637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody say "inverse cos" :) < 1283454646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no you say arccos < 1283454652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only because it has a damn silly name < 1283454672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inverse *of* square root" does sound a bit like ^2 though. < 1283454676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arccos sounds pretty hard to pronounce; I'd go with acos. < 1283454684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're expanding, might as well say "arc cosine". < 1283454684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. < 1283454690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But not inverse square root. < 1283454705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, arc expands to arcus or something like that iirc < 1283454719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so arcus cosine probably? < 1283454819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish way to read arcsin and arccos out loud is as compound words, "arkussini" and "arkuskosini". < 1283454864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can store 4 bytes of a name per word on x86, 8 bytes on x86-64. < 1283454864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Finnish name for reciprocal is again very elegant and beatiful: "käänteisluku". (Lit. "inverse number", compare "käänteisfunktio" -- "inverse function" for the other sort of inverse.) < 1283454867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, similar for Swedish < 1283454872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how PicoLisp handles longer names. < 1283454883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is a word on x86-64 then? < 1283454886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you being sarcastic? Because Finnish /is/ awesome. < 1283454889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8 bytes. < 1283454896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, AMD and Intel disagrees < 1283454907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, they're stupid and should die. < 1283454929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, great, then we would all run ARM, PPC or SPARC I guess < 1283454931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent idea! < 1283454939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I would go for that. < 1283454954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly PPC is dead < 1283454969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure Cell and similar makes such a good general purpose *desktop* CPU < 1283454969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah; is there a variation on Emacs' SERVER-START that doesn't start if there's already a server running? < 1283454976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A SERVER-IS-RUNNING-P, or the like. < 1283454979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, awesome at the stuff it is meant for < 1283454984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PPC wouldn't be dead if AMD and Intel were dead. < 1283454998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, nothing wrong with SPARC. < 1283454999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, true, but it is a bit too late now < 1283455008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did I say there was something wrong with SPARC? < 1283455013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1283455016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that we could use SPARC. < 1283455018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the register window stuff is cool < 1283455028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ALPHA if it wasn't dead < 1283455030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are open-source implementations, too. < 1283455038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah that is cool < 1283455052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM's Cortex-A9 does quad-core 2GHz thing; it sounds like it might even be reasonable amount of power in a desktoppy environment. < 1283455079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Perhaps... < 1283455096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's (not actually Apple's; I forget who designed it) A4 isn't too shabby either. < 1283455106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, GHz isn't everything < 1283455113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 1 GHz and single-core, but still. < 1283455122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pipeline? out of order? super scalar? and so on... < 1283455128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Smarter code. < 1283455132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and efficient ISA of course < 1283455134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that too < 1283455143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...is the programmer's job. < 1283455157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, most CPU power goes unused these days. < 1283455168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or worse, wasted. < 1283455186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I mean, a 10 GHz bf CPU would probably be way less efficient than a 2 GHz x86-64 for almost everything < 1283455201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But way cooler, too. < 1283455216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, but that isn't what most people buying a CPU wants < 1283455226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you absolutely sure about that? < 1283455237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is superscalar, I don't know very much of the other details. ARM's specs page has a DMIPS ("Dhrystone MIPS") performance value, but I don't know how those compare to intels. < 1283455251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, either that or they define cool definitely than we in this channel do < 1283455264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/definitely/differently/ < 1283455265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differently < 1283455266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird typio < 1283455267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo* < 1283455275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Let's just compare BogoMIPS! < 1283455288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, at 10000 DMIPS and 2 GHz, it consumes a whopping 1.9 watts of power. < 1283455319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteByteJump is so cool. < 1283455319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint8_t mem[MEMSIZE]; < 1283455320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint32_t *pc = (uint32_t *)mem; < 1283455320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;) { < 1283455320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mem[pc[1]] = mem[pc[0]]; < 1283455320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pc = (uint32_t *)(mem + pc[2]); < 1283455322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1283455336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Needs memory-mapped IO and a way to halt, but still, sweet.) < 1283455339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh? < 1283455340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is still way less than a P4. Probably way less than a core 2 duo too < 1283455343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just slap two of them together then. < 1283455354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain < 1283455363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: brian < 1283455377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Really? Are you sure? < 1283455382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you RUN Dhrystone on them? < 1283455386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no. It's a guesstimate < 1283455391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, about those 1.9 W < 1283455397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the temperature. < 1283455399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1283455403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283455404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err not temp. Power usage < 1283455405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the wattage. < 1283455409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're closer to 60-100W. < 1283455438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On the other hand, you can't use it to multitask as your sauna stove. < 1283455441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Avoid using brk() and sbrk(): the malloc(3) memory allocation package < 1283455441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the portable and comfortable way of allocating memory." < 1283455442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1283455462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core i7 Gulftown models have a TDP of 130W. < 1283455465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well. My thinkpad when both cores are fully loaded (with SSE heavy code) uses like 25-27 W iirc. < 1283455467 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283455469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant the reasonable CPUs. :P < 1283455475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still quite a bit < 1283455491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How much does one of those lovely ARMs cost? < 1283455493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, though that includes stuff like monitor and memory and so on < 1283455498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not just the CPU < 1283455501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have 100 of them and use the same power. :) < 1283455505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: malloc is "comfortable". < 1283455506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when idle it is way less < 1283455509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah XD < 1283455510 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283455512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like, 8-9 W < 1283455514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually, isn't there some big ARM computer that consists of a fuckton of them? < 1283455522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on half-bright screen < 1283455537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still it of course includes more than just CPU, < 1283455538 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283455546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbrk() doesn't work well when there's memory in the way, right? < 1283455551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it won't do realloc's move-shop stuff. < 1283455561 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, random question: how would you pronounce "#"? < 1283455586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: first thing that came to mind today, honestly, was "octalthorpe" < 1283455605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sbrk is quite similar in many ways to adding/subtracting a value from the stack pointer. But for the heap < 1283455610 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ...that is what I am going to call it from now on. < 1283455611 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283455624 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And octalthorpebang! < 1283455627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, let's check consumer power supplies; last I looked (some years ago) they were hovering in the one kW range, now... "SilverStone Strider ST1500 1500W"; well, 1.5 kW, then. < 1283455627 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d// < 1283455639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so it is useless for any memory management on it's own if you will ever free anything except the most recently allocated element < 1283455652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm maintaining my own heap. < 1283455673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: modern OSes will do it in virtual memory, yeah, instead of allocating real memory for it? < 1283455681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just saying you need to do so with more than sbrk. Or you will get horrible memory fragmentation. < 1283455684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are 2 kW ones iirc. < 1283455691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of course, you rarely need more than 600 W. < 1283455692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sure of that. < 1283455693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? well it is of course backed by virtual memory < 1283455697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon the gamer-class computers will start to come with three-phase electric power connectors. < 1283455713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't particularly want to write a compacting GC, either, so my options are pretty limited as far as freeing memory goes. < 1283455715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1283455717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "it probably won't happen". < 1283455725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll just be relying on the OS to manage virtual memory well. < 1283455734 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon the gamer-class computers are going to have the souls of 10 children in them for AI. < 1283455734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um. maybe back it by mmap then < 1283455750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher this is awesome < 1283455757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, I'm considering that too < 1283455768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: although not in the way SBCL does since I want to work when overcommit is off < 1283455772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You're writing a PicoLisp, right? You can take the marvelous GC advantage of having all your memory cells be the same size, then. < 1283455781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to increase the size of an mmapping? < 1283455793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm writing Slip, which is like PicoLisp except MINE and BETTER. < 1283455794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it won't do anything if your heap looks like (@ = allocated, . = unallocated): @@@...@.@@.@@@@......@@........@.@...@@@....@@...@@ < 1283455797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's some variable-length stuff you want to do, of course. I should have said "Lisp". < 1283455810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Also, I'm not sure it will be. < 1283455819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which is what you will get if you only ever use sbrk and then never fill in the freed up holes < 1283455821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Since what about symbols with names >4 or 8 bytes (depending on 32/64-bit)? < 1283455827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Mm. < 1283455833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be a remmap. < 1283455846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Where do the rest of their names go? I am trying to figure out how PicoLisp does this. < 1283455848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is a mremap. Linux specific. < 1283455858 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so will you be writing a compiler? < 1283455867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: Most likely just an interpreter. < 1283455871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am lazy and my CPU is fast." < 1283455872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, while the OS won't actually allocate your pages until you try to access them, it won't automagically unallocate zeroed out pages. < 1283455881 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I dunno. Maybe they do the ol' BASIC thing where only the first 4 characters of the identifier count :) < 1283455884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for most apps the overhead of detecting that wouldn't be worth oit < 1283455885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1283455886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just use a fixed-size heap. < 1283455889 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bah! How will we ever get Lisp86 working‽ < 1283455892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Scheme interpreter I wrote for our "let's do SICP one last time" special commemorative Scheme course has a copying, compacting (well, of course, since it's copying) GC, and that's "just" 550 lines of x86-64 asm. (It's also probably incredibly buggy, since I wrote it in the last night or two before the deadline.) < 1283455897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Die :) < 1283455902 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have to kidnap someone! < 1283455903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not use libgc? < 1283455912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is the lazy solution < 1283455912 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about ESR? < 1283455922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Copying GCs are so yeargh, though. < 1283455930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm maintaining my own heap; GCs are like a 30-line thing. < 1283455937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I owe it to my users not to use a conservative collector. < 1283455948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My users = me) < 1283455954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's a good choice when you have a deadline measured in hours and are writing manual assembly, though. :p < 1283455958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: What the hell could HE do? < 1283455969 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, write code < 1283455974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: He can't. < 1283455978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Brodrost: Name a project written by esr. < 1283455980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C-INTERCAL". < 1283455986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which ais523 has spent years cleaning up. < 1283455986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the way you described your GC so far sounds worse than a conservative gc though. < 1283455989 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, but we like other people! < 1283455993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fetchmail". < 1283455994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHA < 1283455995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA < 1283455996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you use linked cells to hold long id's (bear with me) then you get fixed-sized cells and that makes GC easy. Need to allocate a new cell? Just take the next one off the free list. Free a cell? Add it to the free list. Free list empty? sbrk(). < 1283455997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHAHAHAHA < 1283455998 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we don't want to enslave them! < 1283456002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC snippet of the day: < 1283456002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it will be good within the heap < 1283456003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.fail: ;; TODO: remove when failure is not an option < 1283456003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov eax, 0x700f00d < 1283456003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmp error_sys < 1283456004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not good for the OS < 1283456011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failure is NOT AN OPTION < 1283456013 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS AN ETHICAL CONUNDRUM < 1283456026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I can't use linked cells, though, because the CDR already contains a pointer to a cell (the value of the pointer). < 1283456033 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oesnoesdon'tuseintelsyntaxnearVorpal < 1283456041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: UNREADABLE < 1283456043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES THAT WORK < 1283456048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE ARE THE %S < 1283456049 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hates it for ill-defined reasons. < 1283456056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, most programs will not free up resources in the same order they allocated them. So you need to try to reduce fragmentation in some way < 1283456060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not go into the Intel syntax wars again. < 1283456069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that one "mov", anyway. < 1283456079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was being sarcastic. < 1283456086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, using a bunch of pools to keep the objects similar sized in a given area might work < 1283456097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Meh. < 1283456100 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you realize that with fixed-size cells, fragmentation is basically a non-problem? < 1283456102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of memory. < 1283456107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what cpressey said. < 1283456108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think the freebsd malloc uses pools like that < 1283456113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully everything will be the same size. < 1283456114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah, he has that? < 1283456118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have missed that < 1283456128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that is like a single pool < 1283456132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it solves it all < 1283456161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Still not sure how to do symbol names, though. Oh, I know. < 1283456163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can have: < 1283456186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('HELL', ptr), ('OWOR', 'LD!\0\0') < 1283456188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HELLOWORLD! < 1283456196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you just keep looking ahead until you get a \0. < 1283456198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you still need some way to store allocation metadata. Like a freelist < 1283456203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some sort < 1283456212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I'm GCing. So there will be a mark field. < 1283456235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might even do the wonderful multithreaded mark-and-sweep I keep talking about. < 1283456238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more GC delays! < 1283456258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just saying scanning for free on allocation would be rather slow < 1283456286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe having a map of pages containing at least one free spot would work < 1283456287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe I could use a bitmask. < 1283456303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1101110 means that cells [0], [1], [3], [4] and [5] are available. < 1283456305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you need to scan only a small chunk < 1283456309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait not a bitmask < 1283456309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(An array of integers, that is.) < 1283456322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, keep a count of free cells for each page < 1283456327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes updating it easier < 1283456331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't need to worry about pages this way. < 1283456351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, you don't need your blocks to be page-sized. Just seemed a reasonable chunk size < 1283456367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. Divide by however many bits are in a long, & ...0... it, where the 0 is at the position of the remainder. < 1283456375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds complicated but really just one or two lines of code to update it. < 1283456390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let's see, if we assume 32-bit we have 4 bytes in each. < 1283456391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway lets say each chunk start with a bitmask. And you have a global mask of full/non-full pages. Where each page is a bit < 1283456406 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can store the freelist inside the cells themselves. In a sense, it's just another Lisp list. < 1283456411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for 4 megabytes, we can store a million cells. < 1283456415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 megabytes of metadata, that is. < 1283456416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then after allocating you just test if your bitmask for the page is all 1, and if so set the global table as it < 1283456420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that works too < 1283456421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cell is a cons, or a symbol, or whatever. < 1283456425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1283456433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Ah, good idea. < 1283456447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every N cells has a count of how many free cells there are in the next N cells? < 1283456456 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need a mark bit somewhere, though, yes. < 1283456465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1283456497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSB of the pointer is traditionally a good choice, since cells are two bytes long. You probably know that much... < 1283456512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are cells 2 bytes only? < 1283456523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, at least 2 bytes. < 1283456526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: LSB of which pointer? < 1283456527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283456533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, at least 2 *addresses*. < 1283456539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, indeed < 1283456548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86-64 they would be... 16 bytes each? < 1283456550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite large < 1283456554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each cell I mean < 1283456611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The tail pointer. If you're storing "improper" lists I can see how that might pose a problem. < 1283456612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I seem to remember some lisp(s) did some trick by being able to store lists so that the next element's car was in the previous cdr < 1283456619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a space optimisation < 1283456624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, haha: homework exercise 6 of that "course with the bignums in it": "Make a program that reads a file and encrypts/decrypts it into another file. You can invent the encryption algorithm by yourself. If you don't want, you can use this: [description of rot-N, where N is the key, and the description itself even manages to be wrong; it "encrypts" letters A..Z, but does modulo 25 instead of 26.]" < 1283456627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting some control bit to indicate this was being done < 1283456628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Of course I am. < 1283456647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1283456649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cdr coding < 1283456652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Then you need to find some other place for it :) < 1283456662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, going to do that? < 1283456666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unlikely < 1283456668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a bitch < 1283456669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283456677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes it messes up allocation < 1283456680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283456680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alignment < 1283456682 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. I was just going to say, "cdr coding is a bitch!" < 1283456684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cdr cdr-coded-list) < 1283456695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unrolled linked lists are simpler and often higher-performance than CDR coding (no "tagged pointers"; typically less fragmentation). For short lists, CDR coding uses the least amount of space. < 1283456696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1283456699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well messing up allocation is partly a side effect of messing up alignment < 1283456704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe for serialization it's OK. < 1283456749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, back when memory was a much more limited resource it probably made sense < 1283456767 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merf. I should probably implement a lisp at some point. I mean, in something other than another lisp. < 1283456782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, in befunge! < 1283456798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh not what I was thinking. < 1283456805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it would be cool however < 1283456838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any Befunge interpreters out there that implement GC of the playfield? (implement it, not rely on their implementation langauge for it) < 1283456847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is like Rupert Holmes, unable to escape from his song with Piña Coladas. < 1283456851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cos FBBI sure as hell doesn't. < 1283456857 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: YES < 1283456867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how can you GC the funge-space? < 1283456870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or that other guy, and "Werewolves of London". < 1283456880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you can't possibly know if some funge code references it < 1283456883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Or Chris Pressey, and Befunge! < 1283456884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... < 1283456916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, or do you mean freeing up memory used by spaces? < 1283456918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh. If a range of space is empty -- free the memory for it? < 1283456919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, if so yes < 1283456936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Do you think that a-bunch-of-adjacent-cells representation for symbol names is a good idea? < 1283456941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure. < 1283456956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, cfunge will free the cell in the hash array backed area if it is set to space < 1283456960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not for GC-friendliness, no. not so much. < 1283456969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it does that by returning it to a pool < 1283456973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: True. < 1283456974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than calling free() < 1283456978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cell-by-cell? < 1283456994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does it ever call free() on them? < 1283456995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading PicoLisp's source and then making sure to forget the exact code so I don't violate the GPL. < 1283457002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well it allocates the hash cells from some internal pools. It just returns those to it < 1283457021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and no it doesn't free up pools if an entire pool would ever become empty < 1283457028 0 :mr45!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283457043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So if I have a Befunge program which p's a # into (0,0), then erases it and p's # into (0,1), etc, etc, will cfunge eventually run out of memory? From what you say it sounds like the answer is "yes". < 1283457044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, still, many programs fit neatly inside the static backed area around 0,0 < 1283457056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no it won't < 1283457071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because it will put the freed up hash entry into the free list < 1283457079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and it will use that before allocating new pools :P < 1283457084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef bool < 1283457084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef enum {NO,YES} bool; < 1283457087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- PicoLisp < 1283457102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct cell { // PicoLisp primary data type < 1283457103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct cell *car; < 1283457103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct cell *cdr; < 1283457103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} cell, *any; < 1283457103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1283457104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: k. < 1283457110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it really is just two bytes. < 1283457111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? < 1283457122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But if you make a Befunge program that uses four gigabytes of space for a while, then erases almost everything, you won't return the uselessly allocated gigabytes to the system, right? < 1283457131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at their GC < 1283457152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *(word*)&cdr(p) &= ~1; < 1283457188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, here: < 1283457189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef union memory_block { < 1283457189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct s_fspace_hash_entry data; < 1283457189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : union memory_block *next_free; < 1283457189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} memory_block; < 1283457193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I am not sure that makes sense. < 1283457200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Although, wait. < 1283457206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It does if you just use 31-bit integers. < 1283457212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, chunks of those are used. And a free list < 1283457229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct heap { < 1283457229 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283457229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cell cells[CELLS]; < 1283457229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct heap *next; < 1283457229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} heap; < 1283457230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: But if you make a Befunge program that uses four gigabytes of space for a while, then erases almost everything, you won't return the uselessly allocated gigabytes to the system, right? <-- no, but I have yet to see such a program in practise < 1283457230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1283457247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in practise here means "not specifically made as a benchmark" < 1283457258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no Befunge programs in practice. < 1283457263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from fungot. < 1283457263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1283457264 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: those who did see it a workman, a servant, and the moon is above and the clouds of the sky and fnord itself in the birth of my grandmother and fnord uncle might be sheer fancy on my part proposed, for his eyes were irresistibly drawn. and then my fancy reverted to the locale as i reflected that the excitant folklore was undoubtedly more universal in the past. < 1283457264 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1283457268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from fungot. < 1283457268 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sometimes heard today, fnord by extensive scientific interests and aided by large numbers of fishing boats from gloucester, made a thorough and really significant digest. average people < 1283457268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said. < 1283457279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, same second < 1283457281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1283457328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1283457329 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1283457331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283457338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fungot in some sense; it would be "nice" if when an evil IRC user makes a space-wasting Underload program, it'd return the wasted space to the system after the program's been finished. (Not that it's a problem in practice, since there's a size limit for the Underload stack.) < 1283457339 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the lovecraft library wishes to extend its gratitude to eulogio garca recalde for transcribing this text. he had to fnord had to get me in a thin envelope of fnord metal. he had counted about thirty when a sound reached him very fnord and < 1283457357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah and probably some user will do it again < 1283457365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and then it will already have it allocated < 1283457366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1283457395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway it is tricky, since the used cells might be spread out < 1283457398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the blocks < 1283457415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in fact, I would say it is rather likely < 1283457452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though if you allocate in pages, you could opportunistically free pages that contain only free'd pointers, if ever such occur. (It'd be a bit annoying to go through the free-list removing those, though.) < 1283457470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6824k VSZ, 5328k resident; it's not a very memory-intensive process there. < 1283457478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, and checking for that condition would incur some overhead < 1283457493 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which for the majority of the cases would be non-useful < 1283457520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (foo)(~:*~:^):^ < 1283457520 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much stack! < 1283457523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, let me check how much I allocate at once < 1283457524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For something even smaller, download miniPicoLisp.tgz. It is a minimal version, without support for databases, UTF-8, bignums, IPC, networking and other system-dependent functions. A kind of "pure" PicoLisp (not "pure Lisp"!). It supports the full PicoLisp language, but runs faster, and uses even less memory space. It should also not be restricted to Unix. In addition, it compiles and runs also on 64-bit systems. < 1283457528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet < 1283457541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7952k virtual, 6408k resident now. < 1283457566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define WORD ((int)sizeof(long)) < 1283457566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define BITS (8*WORD) < 1283457568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... what? < 1283457570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1283457573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't recall my underload stack limits.) < 1283457589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, not using CHAR_BIT, how dreary! < 1283457597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, more than a page at a time I think < 1283457620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conceptual "page", anyway; a biggish blob. < 1283457658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wasn't expecting you to sysconf(_SC_PAGESIZE) the allocation size.) < 1283457682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz CHAR_BIT. < 1283457724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think each hash entry is 4*8 bytes or something like that (x,y,value,next-in-same-bucket) < 1283457729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly a bit more < 1283457749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define val(x) ((x)->car) ;; huh < 1283457752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each chunck is 4096 hash entries < 1283457756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so yeah more than a page < 1283457776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define EVAL(x) (isNum(x)? x : isSym(x)? val(x) : evList(x)) < 1283457777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283457817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is of course assuming a 64-bit funge < 1283457821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ping < 1283457826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, x,y,value would be smaller otherwise < 1283457855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while next-in-same-bucket would depend on pointer size < 1283457875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where is that code from? < 1283457883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: miniPicoLisp < 1283457894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's an absurd name < 1283457903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a smaller version of PicoLisp. :P < 1283457913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but pico already implies it is small... < 1283457923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it should be FemtoLisp or something < 1283457988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, CHAR_BIT is indeed 8 in the TI C64xx. I guess they fake byte-addressing, then, since the hardware is definitely unable to do it. (Though it admittedly does use byte-indexed pointers, so that for all pointer values the LSB is 0.) < 1283458007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there was in fact some special unaligned-read op in there. < 1283458237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, LDNW/LDB and such. (Whose idea it was to make the instruction set reference PDF not include the actual instructions in the PDF table-of-contents metadata? There's just chapter 3.11, "Instruction Descriptions", page 87, and the next thing in the TOC is chapter 4, "Pipeline", page 509.) < 1283458404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also lots of hyperlinks, but no single instruction index. There's six separate "list of instructions executing in the [foo] functional unit" lists (with links to descriptions), but between each list there's ten pages of opcode encoding tables. It's like it's designed to be as difficult as possible to look up opcodes by name.) < 1283458464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm wondering if TI's expensive and sucky -- well, it *was* sucky last I saw it -- IDE has some sort of instruction lookup feature, and therefore they've left it out of these freely downloadable PDFs, so that it's not competing with the IDE docs.) < 1283459782 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283459903 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460220 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460323 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460330 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.78.110.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460396 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283460405 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.78.110.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460460 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283460461 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283460469 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1283460477 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283460481 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1283460506 0 :cheater-!~cheater@p5B216A8E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283460602 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283460631 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.78.110.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283461258 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iGO, you do indeed. < 1283461280 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283461465 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283462234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283463581 0 :Phantom_Brodrost!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vonlebio < 1283463680 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283463937 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283463941 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283463967 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283464007 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283464204 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283464218 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283464220 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283464430 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283464697 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283465079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283465409 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283465716 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283466006 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283466219 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283466424 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283466753 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283466863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should allow Enhanced CWEB to ignore a shebang line at the top of a file, so that it can be used on Hackiki < 1283466978 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1283467013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it is good idea? < 1283467051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make a Hackiki on the esolang, such as /hackiki/ directory instead of /wiki/ to tell differerence < 1283467070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also allow Hackiki files and MediaWiki files to be able to read each-other (but not write) < 1283467079 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether we could create a BANCStar-oid. < 1283467105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And put a field in the MediaWiki account to associate them with a OpenID, to be used with Hackiki. < 1283467118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I was thinking about the same idea in the past. < 1283467140 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... it would need UI capabilities, to keep to BANCStar's spirit. < 1283467300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Yes I think you might be correct, and you would do it in the strange way that BANCStar does it. < 1283467316 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we don't *know* the strange way BANCStar did it. < 1283467342 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know the syntax and about 5 conditional instructions. < 1283467470 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the scoping rules. < 1283467538 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283467546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, BANCStar-oid. <-- it had oids? < 1283467557 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did not, but we should make one. < 1283467576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, do you mean oids as in SNMP? < 1283467609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just guess and see if the example program is sensible in the way that you guessed. < 1283467616 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean as in something similar enough that you could confuse them without close inspection. < 1283467649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, why oids though? There are a lot of other stuff you could think of putting in a bankstar context < 1283467654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, so why oids < 1283467679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is done in a way that the example program is still a sensible program (even if it does not do the same thing as before), then it can be confuse them even with close inspection. < 1283467694 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, "-oid"? Prefix I use to indicate close similarity, per the English prefix? < 1283467707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suffix < 1283467707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, oh < 1283467729 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I always get them confused. < 1283467738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, to me oid = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_identifier < 1283467745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, thus the confusion < 1283467759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1283467764 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, too much SE, obviously. < 1283467769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that pun was so terrible < 1283467773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, SE? < 1283467774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you :D < 1283467794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw what does the c stand for? care? < 1283467799 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Software Engineering? < 1283467802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, ah < 1283467826 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, see. < 1283467826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, well SNMP is to me the very epitome of excessive software engineering! < 1283467841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, should be ois :/ < 1283467849 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's phonetic. < 1283467856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, yeah, I don't like that < 1283467870 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283467904 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the whole acronym is phonetic that way, which is rather neat. < 1283467906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, OIDs are used in X.509 certs too < 1283467914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again too much software engineering < 1283468043 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, http://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html is the sum total of all accessible information on BANCStar. < 1283468218 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a backup of that HTML page. < 1283468358 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was any consistency in the instructions, that would help... < 1283468380 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3001,,, and 3001,lots of numbers? < 1283468394 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is it variadic or what? < 1283468479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3001 is a block conditional, so maybe 3001,,, is the end of the block < 1283468508 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius! < 1283468519 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what are the other 4 numbers for? < 1283468554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ther are only 3 other numbers? < 1283468564 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are! < 1283468590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is the number of the constant/variable, the number indicating the comparison type, and the value to compare it with < 1283468618 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1283468641 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps viewing this from too much of an assembly perspective < 1283468754 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1283468822 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283469219 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283469277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283470288 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283470493 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283471959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/BCVI < 1283472013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I write more, I can test it to see if the example programs will run < 1283472415 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoiks < 1283472433 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Yes, "Zoiks". < 1283472535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Zurrr < 1283472911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283473593 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283473593 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283473638 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283474507 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283476727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaah, Dot Action 2 is so impossible. < 1283476912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1283476918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it not save your place? < 1283476926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck with level 1 again < 1283477019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* McCain proposing a bill that would allow imprisonment without trial. < 1283477044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently he liked his time as a prisoner of war so much that he feels everyone should live it. < 1283477123 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283477177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You need to write down the save code. < 1283477184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the level selection screen; the NNN-NNN. < 1283477190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(3) INAPPLICABILITY OF CERTAIN STATEMENT AND RIGHTS- A individual who is suspected of being an unprivileged enemy belligerent shall not, during interrogation under this subsection, be provided the statement required by Miranda v. Arizona (384 U.S. 436 (1966)) or otherwise be informed of any rights that the individual may or may not have to counsel or to remain silent consistent with Miranda v. Arizona." < 1283477192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Second menu item to enter one.) < 1283477197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... Don't think that actually works. < 1283477200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha. < 1283477218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have a code for 55. < 1283477222 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283477224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're not getting iiit~ < 1283477292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, the opinion of the court in Miranda v. Arizona was that absolutely no evidence from an interrogation is admissible in any court, civil or otherwise, unless the "Miranda rights" are told to them. < 1283477382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soooo... Yeah. Doesn't work unless they want to produce a giant pile of BS that the judge will laugh out of court. < 1283477418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has < 1283477438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, Google own reCAPTCHA. < 1283477444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since about a year ago. < 1283477444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *that* just violates almost the entire US Bill of Rights in a single long sentence. < 1283477449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive, but dang. < 1283477451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/recaptcha < 1283477511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"9) UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENT- The term `unprivileged enemy belligerent' means an individual (other than a privileged belligerent) who-- < 1283477514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A) has engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; < 1283477517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B) has purposely and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or < 1283477520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C) was a part of al Qaeda at the time of capture." < 1283477531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo. I hereby declare Congress to be code for al Qaeda. < 1283477543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shall detain them in the Capitol. < 1283478109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, awesome. < 1283478159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang it, I keep missing a dot in level 20 < 1283478164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoJ is suing Arpaio. < 1283478322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at stage 22 < 1283478557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF at Stage 23 < 1283478735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wtfs at stage 24 < 1283478764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 48 is the hardest so far < 1283478765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from 55 < 1283478771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which appears to be impossible in the time given :) < 1283478772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the one with 1 time?! < 1283478813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I either fry on the upper yellow, or run out of time < 1283478827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally < 1283478842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. :) < 1283478935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 was fun < 1283479043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 I actually have no idea what you have to do, past getting the first green block. < 1283479238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what are you on now? < 1283479246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking a break from it < 1283479250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around 27 I think < 1283479267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you note your save code> < 1283479268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*code? < 1283479285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283479312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 < 1283479885 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1283480038 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283481280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cheat codes: http://jayisgames.com/archives/2007/04/dot_action_2.php#walkthrough < 1283481290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fuck that shit. < 1283481305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm skipping level 27 < 1283481432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ha. You'll find much harder ones and end up skipping the entire game. < 1283481434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 is easy. < 1283481447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1283481464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 is utterly trivial < 1283481468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't do it you have no hope < 1283481481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go in the middle < 1283481507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283481515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you saying tons of punctuation? < 1283481526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@# < 1283481574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 done < 1283481577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did 28 already < 1283481583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fighting 29 < 1283481694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit, missed one < 1283481724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283482112 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283484945 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1283484945 0 :comex_!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283485129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I run bsnes at full speed any more? D: < 1283485238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the answer is: X went "fuck you". < 1283486007 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283486271 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283486290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the BytePusher VM program, and it works. < 1283486319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to wait 14 minutes to try the second example program. < 1283486358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a Factor project to do! < 1283486635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/logo.png < 1283486889 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@173-115-8-58.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283487049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio is not implemented yet. < 1283487125 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283487159 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1283487243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just testsed the second program too, and the second program also works. < 1283487719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/ < 1283487739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have included both example programs in the .ZIP archive so that you do not have to use RapidShare) < 1283487916 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283487917 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283488081 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283488087 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283488197 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283488771 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283489655 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283491187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283491221 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283492088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283496581 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283497597 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B216A8E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283497700 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283498011 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283498094 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283498210 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283498275 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283498275 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283498275 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283498590 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-254.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283499137 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283499279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283499331 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283499827 0 :relet1!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283499916 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283499948 0 :relet1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :relet < 1283500799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283500800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283500898 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283501152 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283501162 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283501179 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283501563 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283503315 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283504019 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283504882 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283505010 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-54-148.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283505114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283505178 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283505231 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283506470 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-54-148.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283507444 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1283508057 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in german, but the code vs times comparisons speak for themselves < 1283508059 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.drweb.de/magazin/schneller-php-schneller/ < 1283508428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Google translate is somewhat hilarious. < 1283508431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D. grinding for, foreach, while (performance gain 15-30%) < 1283508431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Es ist falsch, pauschal zu behaupten, while ist schneller als zum Bespiel foreach. It is wrong to say a flat rate, while faster than the examples foreach. Oder umgekehrt. Or vice versa. Es kommt immer auf die Art des Objekts, die der Befehl zu schleifen hat. It all depends on the nature of the object to the grind, the command has." < 1283508441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, it pastes both versions. < 1283508462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is wrong to say a flat rate, while faster than the examples foreach. Or vice versa. It all depends on the nature of the object to the grind, the command has." < 1283508467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, lovely verb choice there. < 1283508475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRIND that LOOP, PEON. < 1283509046 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283510229 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283511008 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283511014 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's loopgrinding < 1283512163 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283512781 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283514028 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283516080 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283518520 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283518541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283518654 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283518911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1283518914 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: poe's tales, of which he had cultivated with such singular results. it was, they averred, as though wounded by some stray shot. the beast turned its head in my direction and the eyes fell open, disclosing the repulsively rotten fangs of the degenerate joe slater. i shivered as i wondered why i did not fnord killing four and finally succeeding in the liberation of the monster. those victims who could recall the e < 1283518938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders who Joe Slater is. < 1283518972 0 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-44.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1283518998 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283519366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He's a degenerate, with repulsively rotten fangs. < 1283519412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"His name, as given on the records, was Joe Slater, or Slaader, and his appearance was that of the typical denizen of the Catskill Mountain region; one of those strange, repellent scions of a primitive Colonial peasant stock whose isolation for nearly three centuries in the hilly fastnesses of a little-traveled countryside has caused them to sink to a kind of barbaric degeneracy, rather than advance with their more fortunately placed brethren of the thickly set < 1283519412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tled districts." < 1283519519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283519544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283519554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1283519554 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1283519576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1283519627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He appears to have been an early-20th century footballer. < 1283519673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The man himself was pitiably inferior in mentality and language alike; but his glowing, titanic visions, though described in a barbarous disjointed jargon, were assuredly things which only a superior or even exceptional brain could conceive." < 1283519725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's your average footballer. < 1283519731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283519935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can you tell us more about what happened to Joe? < 1283519936 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a cowed and cringing satellite in the fnord fnord firm to the house in darkness but for the glare of the fnord < 1283519953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's good or bad. < 1283519979 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283520015 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, Wikipedia says he was killed in WWI. Is this true? < 1283520016 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: it was a gentle daylight rain that awaked me front my stupor in the brush-grown railway cut, and among them was lore of a golden valley that led to old world wonders. by night the outer harbour was cleared, and late passengers watched the stars twinkling above an unpolluted ocean. < 1283520057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283520071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, he was killed because he was "unfit to bear the active intellect of cosmic entity. His gross body could not undergo the needed adjustments between ethereal life and planet life." < 1283520096 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so there it was hushed up. < 1283520101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cosmic entities should have more sense than picking footballers. < 1283520170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283520182 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently. < 1283520202 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283520208 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously they thought that understanding the offside rule was a sign of high mental calibre. < 1283520435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, XD < 1283520882 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283520994 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283520997 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: I actually do understand the offside rule. < 1283521080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the football/soccer rule, or the indentation rule? < 1283521090 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The football rule. < 1283521155 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the indentation rule? < 1283521707 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283521732 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283522348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common nickname AFAIK for the rule Haskell uses < 1283522361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can line up a loop (or other control structure) body with the first line < 1283522521 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283522564 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283522617 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283522789 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4C3C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283522831 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283523695 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283523697 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283523763 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-1.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283523786 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283524363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is strange... The haskell rule is actually quite easy to understand. < 1283524384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more complicated than the rules for pretty much any other lang... < 1283524402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I never understood the football rule. Though, I can't say I spent much time trying to understand the football rule < 1283524418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :football just doesn't interest me very much < 1283524445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm possibly. < 1283524491 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283524887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283525116 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283525653 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283526357 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283526624 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283526651 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283526785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's more complex than the rules for any other language, but it's more *natural* than most other such rules. < 1283526809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like it, but I see how people could be confused < 1283526854 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283527523 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283527551 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283528019 0 :teuchter!~choochter@host81-146-31-25.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283528132 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283528525 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283528537 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISTER PRESSER < 1283528541 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, PRESSEY < 1283528946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283529099 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-48-254.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283529113 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283529118 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, He who Choochts. < 1283529147 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283529295 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283529756 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283529771 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283529780 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283529925 0 :Ilari_an1rcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283529943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283529943 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283530029 0 :teuchter!~choochter@host213-1-48-254.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283530152 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283530162 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283530191 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283530191 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283530858 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283530885 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283531029 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-48-254.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283531055 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4039.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283531193 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283531512 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1283532047 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283532790 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283533824 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283534264 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-184.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283534798 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@poste229-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283535614 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283535660 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283536923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283537363 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283537930 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283537934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283539089 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283539123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283539179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010atbj.php#details says "Depth 16.1 km (10.0 miles) (poorly constrained)" and "Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 16.5 km (10.3 miles); depth +/- 64.6 km (40.1 miles)". So that earth quake could be located far about the ground then? XD < 1283539196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly constrained indeed XD < 1283539520 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283539521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A skyquake. < 1283539538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. < 1283539973 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283540117 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283540134 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283540282 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283540487 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283540664 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283540704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1283540727 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283540775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone bought out the rights to Duke Nukem Forever and started developing it again < 1283540795 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283540816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never bought out the rights, actually. < 1283540841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take Two has always *had* the rights. They just had contracted to have it developed. < 1283540859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they decided to switch contractors. < 1283540869 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yay! < 1283540883 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can not be made again! < 1283540901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what may shock Vorpal even more is that I finally got a small fragment of a Feather interp to work pretty much as expected < 1283540911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's just leading to more questions about what I should do next < 1283540922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO < 1283540930 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code! < 1283540932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one thing that's necessary is to restrict the program to using only atoms that are in the original program < 1283540940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really a problem as you can just go back in time and add them there...) < 1283540953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: well, there isn't any Feather code yet < 1283540960 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283540967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just creating Feather fakeobjects via metagaming, and checking that they interact correctly < 1283540969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D Realms, who previously had been developing it, last released a new game in '97. < 1283540989 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, but anything Feather is interesting. < 1283540992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ninety fucking seven*. < 1283541002 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283541021 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283541610 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pretty please? < 1283541637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;(set! abc (box_atom "abc")) < 1283541639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;(eval (((((abc "==") (box_atom "def")) "#") '(display "equal")) '((abc "<<=") (box_atom "def")))) < 1283541641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commented out because it's just a paste < 1283541646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, that's Scheme not Feather) < 1283541666 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDERSCORES IN SYMBOLS < 1283541672 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SHOULD BURN IN HELL < 1283541686 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you don't like helly stuff. < 1283541695 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SHOULD BE BEATEN SOUNDLY < 1283541752 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1283541771 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so feather will resemble scheme, on which abstraction level? < 1283541797 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you get around the "turtles all the way down" problem? < 1283541811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I haven't < 1283541817 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideas? < 1283541832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is not the number of turtles, but inconsistent counts < 1283541857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain to try to match up old turtles with new one < 1283541869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is the only lang I know where you have to think about backwards compatibility in the very first interp... < 1283542172 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283542271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtles? < 1283542297 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, small, shelled marine reptiles. < 1283542368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a language with specs but no implementation for a long time, and when someone gets around to it, they find that it _can't quite_ meet the specs < 1283542414 0 :teuchter!~choochter@host81-146-53-4.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283542437 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teuchter, choochter, any relation? < 1283542509 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283542768 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283542797 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1283542817 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283543021 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283543130 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283543191 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I make the audio in BytePusher VM syncrhonized? In SDL the audio has to run in a separate thread. So, how do I synchronize it? < 1283543206 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With SCIENCE! < 1283543391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not helping.... < 1283543560 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283543723 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can SCIENCE not help‽ < 1283543727 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283543735 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283543739 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can SCIENCE not help‽ < 1283543746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We saw that the last time. < 1283543794 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Effing connection. < 1283543804 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And clog. < 1283543849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Because that is not enough explanation, of what codes needed, and stuff like that < 1283543865 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, but it's SCIENCE! < 1283543924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what exactly is being wanted here, but of course you could just make another buffer, into which the synchronous audio-output functions write; wrap a mutex around it; if the buffer's full, have the synchronous output function block with SDL_CondWait; and then the audio thread just reads from that buffer and SDL_CondSignal's in case the synchronous audio output function's waiting there. < 1283543943 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? fizzie has SCIENCE! < 1283544034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a bit unpredictable latency there, since there's another buffer inside SDL. And you'd need to call the synchronous audio-output function often enough so that the buffer never happens to be empty, but I guess that's a given. < 1283544132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wrote this BytePusher/ByteByteJump thing anyway? Someone not on-channel, apparently? < 1283544210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to comment on the µ-law encoding thing, which I think mostly makes sense only for speech. < 1283544394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think it is only for speech? < 1283544408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can post the comment on the Talk page on the wiki < 1283544419 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283544468 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283544484 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia does say it is for speech. < 1283544758 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will wait until they write a program that uses audio, in case they decide to change it back? < 1283544813 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to code BBJ ? < 1283544813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting for a audio-outputting program might be a good idea anyway, so you can test your thing. (Though the µ-law lookup table is easy to add/remove, I guess.) < 1283544912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is easy to add/remove < 1283544959 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283544981 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283545055 0 :cpressey!~catseye@adsl-99-92-186-206.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283545340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what may shock Vorpal even more is that I finally got a small fragment of a Feather interp to work pretty much as expected <-- wow... \o/ < 1283545358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this does not mean the lang itself is working < 1283545365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that the very first stage is not completely impossible < 1283545381 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1283545382 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          | < 1283545382 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         /`\ < 1283545432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1283545445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still a first step < 1283545473 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Kudos! < 1283545605 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549722D3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283545663 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i also thought a lot about language like Feather < 1283545675 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all that comes to me is some kind of Lisp on steroids < 1283546023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a random test of a 30-second snippet of music, in both 8-bit unsigned linear PCM and 8-bit µ-law, and the difference is pretty small, so I guess it doesn't really hurt that much to have it there. < 1283546041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK < 1283546122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/test-linear.wav and http://zem.fi/~fis/test-ulaw.wav if someone with more discerning ears wants to comment on the µ-law + music use case. < 1283546154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technically I guess it's copyrighted audio, but, well, a 30-second lowish-quality snippet...) < 1283546308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That'd be a better comparison if it were 44100 Hz. < 1283546363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess, but the BytePusher has a sampling rate of 15360 Hz. < 1283546372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283546376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1283546397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fixed 60 Hz framerate, and 256 samples per frame, if you mean "why that exact number". < 1283546436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a more general sort of why, "dunno" then. < 1283546510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not even sufficiently lossless to encode music well. < 1283546516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283546530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not even enough to encode the *base frequencies* of a giant swath of the musical scale. < 1283546617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-fidelity music may not have been high up on the design criteria list. < 1283546619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Actually, looking at a table of notes vs. Hz. You're good up until A8. < 1283546622 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1283546622 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to write programs for bytePusher? < 1283546622 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some compiler? < 1283546627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is ridiculously high) < 1283546628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is not enough? Even for square wave or sine wave or other simple things, if you stay in the middle of octave? < 1283546639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, A8 is high. < 1283546652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: No there isn't, but I am writing one < 1283546660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more like assembler, though < 1283546726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll omit a good chunk of audible frequencies, buuut these are less essential ones, apparently. < 1283546793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But standard music should be enough for simple waveforms, 12-TET, 12-JI, Bohlen-Pierce, and more, which ones are likely to work? < 1283546844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because i can't imagine how to do arithmetics on oisc < 1283546847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, it'd only start being an issue if you start putting real instruments through there. < 1283546866 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283546877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ones which have *some* sound above 8 kHz. < 1283546881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I think the suggestion was doing it using tables..... < 1283546887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approx.) < 1283546920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is OK, since my assembler ("PUSHEM") supports adding tables and calculating values to enter into the tables, including loading them from binary files (for pictures) < 1283546938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still have to explicitly tell it to add tables, though. < 1283546963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, DSD advocates and equipment manufacturers continue to assert an improvement in sound quality above PCM 24-bit 176.4 kHz." -- yeah, right, I'm sure there's a lot of audible fine detail out there somewhere over 80 kHz. < 1283547056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ones which have *some* sound above 8 kHz. <-- doesn't most have that? < 1283547127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as far as I remember the overtones for many (all?) instruments in theory goes on forever, getting fainter and fainter the further up they are. < 1283547155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might depend on your definition of "some"; whether you're being unnecessarily literal with it or not. < 1283547169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1283547190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did the second line clarify what I meant? < 1283547257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Human hearing goes up to about 20 kHz... :) < 1283547266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes there is that limit too < 1283547279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes most of those infinite overtones irrelevant < 1283547313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As well as the whole "approaching 0 dB" thing. < 1283547320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed, which I mentioned there < 1283547336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. CD audio is nearly perfect in terms of audio reproduction.\ < 1283547339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about interference between stuff about 20 kHz and stuff below it? < 1283547352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a significant issue though < 1283547362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Will get recorded as part of the CD audio. < 1283547372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind, you're recording the *net* sound wave there. < 1283547373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, that is only stereo. < 1283547415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remember you can hear the difference between sounds in more than just left/right direction due to various factors which I forgot the details about < 1283547427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make it 32-bit, 44.1 kHz audio, and *record binaurally*, you will have *literally perfect audio reproduction*. < 1283547436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1283547436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: excruciatingly slow < 1283547440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you've got hardware to actually play that back) < 1283547441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will everyone write only twelve tone equal temperament music on BytePusher, or will some people use other tunings? < 1283547453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would be a PITA due to varying between different persons though < 1283547459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head form and such I mean < 1283547469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Binaural recording with a generic head is "good enough", though. < 1283547470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Or will anyone at all write music on BytePusher? < 1283547477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know. < 1283547486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not *perfect* though ;P < 1283547493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283547507 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many music programs support only twelve tone equal temperament, which is good enough for most music, but not everything. < 1283547516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As good as can be achieved for mass distribution, though. < 1283547546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music-wise BytePusher seems a bit "boring", in the sense that it's just sampled audio playback, not e.g. some funky digital/analog hybrid synth-chip with interesting distortions (I'm obviously referring to the SID here). < 1283547550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I seem to remember my electrical piano supports other tunings than equal temperament. < 1283547563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt midi supports it though < 1283547572 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes < 1283547575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: 32-bit audio there is kinda overkill. < 1283547597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there = ? < 1283547614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit PCM is sufficient for recording the full dynamic range possible in air. < 1283547618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes shock waves. < 1283547619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283547628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My digital piano also supports other tunings, but only a few, and not Bohlen-Pierce or 19-tone tunings or anything else like that. < 1283547636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about other media than air though? < 1283547648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It varies from medium to medium... < 1283547674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-precision floating-point audio; freedom from dynamic-range problems. < 1283547693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, right. And I can't find the manual for my piano atm. So not sure about what it supports exactly < 1283547694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But now you've got imperfect reproduction. < 1283547708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about quadruple precision then? < 1283547715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 32-bit 44.1 kHz can perfectly represent all sounds that humans can hear in air. < 1283547719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have figured out a way to write Bohlen-Pierce music in .IT format, although it doesn't work the best way, since you have to store a sample for each pitch! http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/music2/bohlen-pierce.it < 1283547739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just "close enough that the differences are irrelevant". Literally perfect. < 1283547744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about something in between two values though? < 1283547764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's 52 bits of precision in a double, it can't be any more imperfect than a 32-bit integer. And if you go overkill, you should really go overkill well. < 1283547775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mean, lets say we have 1000 and 1001 as two values, what about representing a sound in between those? < 1283547777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this bohlen-pierce.it music works? Obviously it won't work for anything more complicated than what I have done there < 1283547802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course this is probably pointlessly detailed < 1283547803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "literally perfect" until you hit the Heisenberg limits. :p < 1283547803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1283547813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which you do. And go far, far beyond. < 1283547825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that pretty suspicious. < 1283547829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm Heisenberg limits? < 1283547839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h is a very small number, after all. < 1283547851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this about quantum mechanics suddenly? < 1283547855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you mean Planck units? < 1283547857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I confusing a name < 1283547872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Quantum-mechanics uncertainty about the momentum of the air molecules, you see. < 1283547880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ahahahaha < 1283547922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that isn't enough. Get a compensator for it. Like in star trek. Used to explain how it is possible to beam people iirc < 1283547934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sample a wave with a sampling rate twice its frequency. Apply the Whittaker-Shannon interpolation formula. You have the *precise* original waveform. < 1283547982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I find having anything precise in a real world measurement pretty suspicious... < 1283548001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm no expert on this area < 1283548012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It is mathematically precise. In terms of the real-world, you are limited by the quality of your measuring equipment. < 1283548024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283548025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That would assume continuous-value samples there. Otherwise you'd get quantization noise anyway. Unless the physics of a pressure wave give some limits here, but I'd like to see references for that. < 1283548096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Adding finite ranges of samples limits the amplitude... < 1283548131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Lemme find in precisely the manner it does so. < 1283548141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't quite understand that last bit. < 1283548156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why are you limiting yourself to air? < 1283548183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because we don't generally care about other media < 1283548208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a finite range of real numbers has just as many real numbers than R, it doesn't help to give a maximum pressure there. You should somehow limit the number of possible pressure levels to < 2^32. < 1283548271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole notion of "pressure" gets a bit tricky if you start to consider individual molecules, though. Hmh. < 1283548359 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari < 1283548371 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cpressey < 1283548377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Quantization does add a small amount of error. < 1283548378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not record the speed and time of each individual molecule hitting your sound recording hardware? < 1283548405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly also location on the device in question < 1283548446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why not, indeed! You should sell that sort of stuff to hifists. (It doesn't even have to actually do the impossibilities, they'll pay bazillion dollars for it anyway if you do the marketing right.) < 1283548458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though one could *quite* feasibly put it up to bitrates that would make a 1-bit difference be below Heisenberg limits, if you set the maximum value as the maximum possible volume in your prefered medium. < 1283548462 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold, a new use for Google's compute base. < 1283548532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I realise it is of course infeasible if not impossible :P < 1283548577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and you claim 32-bit is that for air? < 1283548609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm should make it go to 12 as well while I'm at it. < 1283548707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to answer the inevitable question "go to 12 for what", it doesn't matter. Just pick any suitable setting knob < 1283548719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, I'm going to make the actual, proper calculation, now that I've thought about it some. < 1283548747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right. < 1283548764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION figures out the conversion rate between a Pascal and a planck mass per (planck length * planck time^2) < 1283548782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, M/(L*T^2) < 1283548784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1283548789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess insanely large or insanely small < 1283548814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it could be something reasonable-sized. Who knows < 1283548825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there it is. < 1283548838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.63309 × 10113 Pa per M/(L*T^2) < 1283548846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10113? < 1283548852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283548854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^113 < 1283548860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah 10¹¹³ < 1283548867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :P < 1283548925 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283548968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo... A shock wave is 2.18698536 × 10^-129 planck pressures, and that did not help me at all. < 1283548984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, -129? < 1283548994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is planck pressures then a VERY VERY large unit? < 1283549007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283549011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283549015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 4.63309 * 10^133 pascals. < 1283549023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! < 1283549048 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.11.111.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283549051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for better units < 1283549147 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283549158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it. I'm calling 32 bits good enough arbitrarily. < 1283549169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw quantisation error. If it matters, you are a freak. < 1283549210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you aren't persistent enough < 1283549234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway... < 1283549242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 2.18698536 × 10^-129 is max < 1283549259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the heisenberg limit? < 1283549267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just take that range < 1283549304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take the range 0 to 2.18698536 × 10^-129 and divide in 2^32, if less than heisenberg limit, it is enough < 1283549308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or? < 1283549312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I miss something? < 1283549334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is the Heisenberg limit for pressure; I certainly am not a physicist enough to start guesstimating it. < 1283549355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but is my basic idea sound? < 1283549370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< fizzie> The whole notion of "pressure" gets a bit tricky if you start to consider individual molecules, though. Hmh. < 1283549380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also this is pressure, but what defines frequency hm? I'm not audio engineer enough to know this < 1283549397 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be better to model it directly as the electric and strong forces that are causing it, at that point. < 1283549399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but certainly you can have differently loud sound at the same frequency? < 1283549433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, a bit tricky to record that, no? < 1283549445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need enough precision bits to handle all possible pressure levels; and then sample often enough to catch all physically possible frequencies. < 1283549461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, so what sampling frequency do we need? < 1283549489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about that, but probably not something horribly huge. < 1283549495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1283549548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what sort of playback device do you need to play back below 1 Hz I wonder < 1283549557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I can't see how it would be much different from recoring the pressure on a single air molecule. < 1283549560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my headphones claim to go down to 5 Hz < 1283549566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite absurdly extreme < 1283549570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*recording < 1283549581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm okay < 1283549683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're willing to limit yourself to humans, you can start to derive limits from the ear; those limits are lot more reasonable-sized, but they're a bit "soft" limits. < 1283549894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283550010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283550126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are algorithms for simulation of Guqin scales? < 1283550199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Though *pressure* probably has reasonable limits if you merely limit yourself to a specific medium. < 1283550306 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you talking about < 1283550330 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from simplistic VM to quantum physics -> #esoteric < 1283550651 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-48-254.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283550754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283550885 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283551057 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283551457 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283551545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283552175 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: they're talking about perfect audio reproduction < 1283552205 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow they've magically found perfect mics and speakers < 1283552283 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with THD of 0 and perfectly flat frequency response over an insanely large range < 1283552377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more about audio storage/transmission, where we just postulate the existence of perfect recording and playback equipment. < 1283552517 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283552595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins some other freenode channels on a whim < 1283552616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspecting this will just confirm my suspicion that this is the only one that will hold my interest < 1283552654 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I used to go to #crypto .. that one had some good discussions < 1283552662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo, many times I've been considering doing that, but never managed to decide where to join to. < 1283552694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! There's a #falcon < 1283552796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can set up channels on my own IRC server, too, for things that you might want, and they will automatically be logged. So that can be used if you need this kind of service (if you don't, there are other IRC networks too) < 1283552807 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283552849 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283552865 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes when my kids throw a fit is is absolutely hilarious, but I haven't decided if laughing would cause them long term emotional harm < 1283553313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask them which way they prefer? < 1283553386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. The maintenance guy came up to fix the oven, took it apart (with bits of it all over the kitchen floor now), then left while I was in the other room. Presumably to get a necessary tool or something. Haven't seen him in 20 minutes now, though. < 1283553391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how this will turn out. < 1283553587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : with THD of 0 and perfectly flat frequency response over an insanely large range <-- THD? < 1283553617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A distortion measure. < 1283553623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total harmonic distortion, was it? < 1283553646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, If you are still looking for extra channels, what about #haskell? < 1283553677 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 16:40 -!- channels : #bash #scheme #ruby #picolisp #falcon #python #haskell ##pfsense #esoteric < 1283553700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, mhm. pfsense? falcon? < 1283553719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, #bash can be hilarious at times btw. < 1283553735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes! #falcon! < 1283553735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A friend just facebooked (and a friend-of-a-friend told a similiar story) about a plumber that came to fix something, left saying "I'll need to go get some more tools from the car", and then never came back (or at least not in two weeks). < 1283553753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, watch out for greycat (regular there) trying to help a newbie. Headdesking will likely ensue! < 1283553795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh. < 1283553840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, seems he is offline atm though < 1283553859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what is #falcon about? < 1283553864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, another suggestion: #erlang < 1283553887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, is it about the birds? < 1283553940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess would be the programming language. < 1283553958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, you must have missed the recent, ah, research we've been doing into the Falcon language here recently. < 1283553978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh? what paradigm is it? < 1283553992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would anyone in this channel be interested in it < 1283554010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I never hard of it as a programming language before today < 1283554055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1283554070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never realized that XChat made it easy to manipulate autojoin channels! < 1283554094 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Glad you asked! "Falcon provides six integrated programming paradigms: procedural, object oriented, prototype oriented, functional, tabular and message oriented." < 1283554114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah < 1283554133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between object-oriented and message oriented? < 1283554152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah okay.... sounds like aiming for bloated... Or to be more precise: tricky to pull that off in a good way and without getting bloated < 1283554192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so what's so special about the language apart from supporting multiple paradigms < 1283554216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what is the tabular programming paradigm? Lookup tables? < 1283554271 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Please read the table on http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=facts -- in particular, the "Functional programming" row. < 1283554301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283554302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, in-memory SQLite with multiple copies of tables < 1283554324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, SQLite-like I guess < 1283554335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not using SQL < 1283554340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, my explanations suck < 1283554375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I understand it, it means to say "None of these other languages try to embed S-expressions in an otherwise vanilla-procedural programming language" < 1283554504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, mhm < 1283554508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but my favourite part is how Falcon does "monadic programming" with "out of band values". < 1283554531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you don't need s-expressions to be functional < 1283554540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, haskell < 1283554563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "monadic programming" with "out of band values" <-- is it just me, or is that technobabel? < 1283554594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah, you may be catching on! < 1283554598 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Marking an item as out-of-band allows the creation of monads in functional evaluations. More automatism will be introduced in future, but scripters can have monads by assigning the oob status to complex objects and perform out-of-band processing on them." < 1283554638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, where did it say that? < 1283554641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps the page < 1283554643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really wondering if I'm sick enough to try CODING something in this language. I have the implementation installed... < 1283554654 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's on http://www.falconpl.org/project_docs/core/funset_oob_support.html < 1283554657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283554696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, are all parts as bad as the functional part? < 1283554708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, or are the procedural parts better? < 1283554784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, also the way to measure "raw loop speed" is utterly silly. Just throw in an llvm style JIT there and it would probably constant fold it < 1283554831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's fair to say that it's their approach to language design & implementation, that I find entertaining. < 1283554842 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, and to ... language marketing. < 1283554861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not as bad as mathematica though < 1283554875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language itself, if you take out the "ooh! functional!" parts, is pretty plain-jane pythonish-rubyish-whatnot, it looks like. < 1283554882 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283554890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well! When you get into "math tools" -- have you seen R? < 1283554893 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, R. < 1283554897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As someone who understands monads, I wish to object to this < 1283554908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :D < 1283554910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, read the first paragraph on http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/FunctionalProgramming.html < 1283554923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that is one huge ego making false claims < 1283554938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I have heard of R. I never used it. < 1283554938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Haskell and OCaml do not even register to the hugeness of Wolfram's ego. < 1283554942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember what the code looks like < 1283554954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or LISP < 1283554958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Loading. Ah - I should have said "When you get into things done by Wolfram -- well!" < 1283554958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it's for st-t-st-cs < 1283554970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, indeed < 1283554976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1283554994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot tell for the life of him what Falcon calls monads < 1283554994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language." < 1283554995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you removed vowels < 1283554996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1283554998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK! You win < 1283555001 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1283555009 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY < 1283555011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what? < 1283555014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I won what? < 1283555022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A truly convenient and practical functional programming language! < 1283555027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Bad Language Marketing Game < 1283555035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is the OOB stuff doing functor-related things? < 1283555051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it also has "industrial-strength string manipulation" according to another page < 1283555054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Mathematica isn't *that* unpleasant, just agglutinative to an insane degree. < 1283555057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what on earth that means I don't know < 1283555064 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OOB seems to "tag" a value with a special invisible quality which makes some built-in functions do something different with it when they receive it. < 1283555078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And you thought *I* had a nuts view of monads. < 1283555080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that it can be used in string factories. < 1283555092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1283555151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have functions to compute hamming distance and edit distance... And dictionary lookup. Apart from that it seems like a fairly normal set of functions for string processing < 1283555189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can be computed, Mathematica has a built-in function for it. < 1283555198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close < 1283555221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what about this one: < 1283555224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematica provides a uniquely integrated and automated environment for parallel computing. With zero configuration, full interactivity and seamless local and network operation, the symbolic character of the Mathematica language allows immediate support of a variety of existing and new parallel programming paradigms and data-sharing models." < 1283555227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having tried it... < 1283555232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say it is shoddy at best < 1283555288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not very automatic at all < 1283555296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather say it is a PITA to use < 1283555317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Google saw it and it blew them away! They just up and stopped using MapReduce and started using MATHEMATICA instead!" < 1283555325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I'm not sure if I would rather use it or pthreads. And considering what a PITA pthreads is... that says about everything... < 1283555338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, any idea on what Falcon does when it natters about monads? < 1283555356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the core of Mathematica's symbolic programming paradigm is the concept of transformation rules for arbitrary symbolic patterns. Mathematica's pattern language conveniently describes a very general set of classes of expressions, making possible uniquely readable, elegant and efficient programs." < 1283555358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am tempted to ask in #falcon. Maybe after I've had a few drinks. < 1283555362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one, I'm not sure what they mean < 1283555378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But, basically, what I said about it adding a "tag" to a value, is all I can tell. < 1283555386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sleep-deprived < 1283555387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that statement is curiously devoid of any factual information < 1283555390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll do. < 1283555395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/join #falcon < 1283555403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sure sound pretentious! < 1283555421 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283555442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So it's a... rewriting language. < 1283555456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes that's about all it says < 1283555500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, mathematica wouldn't so bad if they didn't try to boost it's abilities to this degree. With some more factual documentation it would still turn out a decent product. < 1283555535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoddy in many parts though, and worth about 1/6 of the price < 1283555556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldn't look so bad compared to it's own documentation! < 1283555608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, anyway, it should come at no great surprise that a CAS like mathematica is based on rewriting symbolic expressions < 1283555646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, that is likely the sanest way to implement a simplification function, by rewriting rules < 1283555668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1283555696 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283555697 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283555924 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283556076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me and my Haskell naïveté, or is it a rather ugly hack to add support for monads straight into a language? < 1283556100 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh damn, I haven't been following this. < 1283556166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what is? < 1283556167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now invent something like METAFONT but for music synthesis. < 1283556175 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, uh, "tabular programming paradigm" -- need I say more? < 1283556178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, apparently OOB allows special handling of objects. < 1283556191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it's a "please handle me specially" bit. < 1283556193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm not sure that makes monads though < 1283556202 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283556203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, can't see how to do the IO monad with it for example < 1283556212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume from this that they've implemented some horrible hack that bashes functors in somehow. < 1283556270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, looks like they ignore TeX too: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/MathematicalTypesetting.html < 1283556278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't think you can get proper monads from this. < 1283556283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, TeX is in my opinion far better < 1283556309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they are correct about the input, but that is just how they render it < 1283556313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumed it used TeX already. < 1283556327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rendered result is shoddy compared to TeX using CM < 1283556332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no it doesn't afaik < 1283556339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That NIH is slightly worse than zzo's. < 1283556450 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable159.218-202-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283556451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is better, and it is better for more than just mathematical typesetting. Mathematica is just a large program that does too many things and costs a lot of money, and is not Free Software. < 1283556479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can get around the money pretty easily. < 1283556484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. We were poking fun at wolfram's large ego < 1283556487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1283556487 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fr.justin.tv/surasshu#/w/361774448 <-chipmusic stream < 1283556512 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(original songs from famicompo, quality varies ofc :D) < 1283556619 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want that, do you have the .NSF files instead? (If they are written on .NSF, that is.....) < 1283556642 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283556655 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://midr2.under.jp/compo/vol7/index.html < 1283556659 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link is on these < 1283556723 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283556753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK thanks, why didn't you just post that one at first? < 1283556775 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause we're doing a synclisten in espernet #mod_shrine < 1283556785 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that's fine too < 1283556790 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out original #1 < 1283556839 0 :teuchter!~choochter@host81-146-45-254.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283556853 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283556883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering about the alise deficiency < 1283556894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Original #1 is the one I currently have playing < 1283556902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I simply had to be at a place today. < 1283556930 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283556952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it's evening now < 1283556977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's very nearly morning. < 1283557024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of "morning" - it feels strange to call just after 12 am morning < 1283557052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! Entry number 2 uses MMC5 < 1283557208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea I have is to make a .NSF music with multiple tracks, where each track is a variation of the same music, such as looping/non-looping, different waveforms, turning the music backward and/or upsidedown, different temperament, and so on < 1283557224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I had to get up early and couldn't sleep; after coming back, I was tired enough to want to rest a bit before trekking up the stairs. < 1283557263 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: not allowed in famicompo :( (no multi-tracks) < 1283557290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Who wrote this BytePusher/ByteByteJump thing anyway? Someone not on-channel, apparently? < 1283557297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javamannen on the wiki < 1283557302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can .NSF format use different temperament? < 1283557318 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: yeah but why would you use it < 1283557332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Why is that? What if they just make it if it has multiple tracks, they just use only track zero < 1283557351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if they won't accept multi-tracks, just change the number of tracks in the header to zero before submitting the file < 1283557352 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, they just have a rule against it :/ < 1283557359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, to one track) < 1283557401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: So that you can use just intonation music, or pythagorean tuning (for Chinese music), or Bohlen-Pierce, or any other temperament, instead of using twelve tone equal temperament all the time < 1283557424 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283557444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Do they accept it if the file has multiple tracks but you change the header so it says it is only one track, and the others are not accessible unless someone fixes the file? < 1283557459 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but in practice pythagorean is almost exactly like equal temperament < 1283557520 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes it is close, but for some things it is better. < 1283557572 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohlen-pierce has like no octave or no 5th < 1283557590 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: the difference is like less than the nes tuning accuracy < 1283557616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, or so one might assume, the initial edits were anonymous ip. "javamannen" means "the java man" in norwegian, btw) < 1283557649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes that is true, but that is because Bohlen-Pierce has different intervals instead, for writing different kind of music. Just like just intonation and Mersenne and so on is all for different kind of music. < 1283557660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Phantom_Hoover> I assume from this that they've implemented some horrible hack that bashes functors in somehow. <-- I simply assumed they wanted the use the word "monad" without regard for what it meant. < 1283557668 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's still goin. < 1283557669 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: but yeah in some music engines like it2nsf it's easy to detune by about the right amount < 1283557670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*going < 1283557697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, after much questioning, I still have little idea what they're going on about. < 1283557706 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it2nsf can detune in 1/16ths of a semitone < 1283557747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: That is, if you are using a program like it2nsf. If you program directly instead, you could program it however you want (within the limits of the NES APU and any audio addons that are part of the .NSF format) < 1283557781 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: that's not a good strategy for making music < 1283557806 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because it makes it harder to put in notes and listen to what you're doing < 1283557835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people listened to music in their mind because they cannot hear it < 1283557868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tracker programs are just too limited in my opinion < 1283557881 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limited? by what? :D < 1283557931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limited in all sorts of ways. These programs are not METAFONT! < 1283557973 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283557989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've come to a degree of understanding over OOB monads, and my conclusion from this is that they're so hideous I won't explain out of kindness. < 1283558040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Thank you. < 1283558042 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metafont? < 1283558063 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Have you heard of TeX? METAFONT is the program to design fonts for TeX documents. < 1283558081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand correctly, the way they do it will cause map to explode if you use a monad in it. < 1283558105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think TeX and METAFONT are very good for the things they do. < 1283558137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And various other bits are so crazy that I feel that I must have got them wrong, but fear that I haven't. < 1283558177 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good times! < 1283558181 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: well, it's kinda like... mml is more flexible than trackers < 1283558193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what's going on now? < 1283558196 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mml is for aspies really < 1283558205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OOB? < 1283558205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: What does "mml" means? < 1283558214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know Falcon? < 1283558223 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mml is a system used mostly by japanese composers < 1283558231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, thankfully; but yes, of it. < 1283558236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere they said they could do monads through some mysterious OOB thing. < 1283558238 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not much. Mathnerd314 is continuing to... explore their concepts. < 1283558249 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you write your song in text format and it compiles it to nsf < 1283558250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, curious, investigated. < 1283558262 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, by which I mean, he said something. < 1283558267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is basically Lovecraft but with crappy languages. < 1283558285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Where is more information? < 1283558304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We discovered that there is a #falcon channel on freenode. Hilarity ensued! < 1283558331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1283558334 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Macro_Language < 1283558339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1283558343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Watch as I get banned! < 1283558346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, alise didn't join, did he? < 1283558351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You bet it, baby. < 1283558353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1283558357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, it's like the insane asylum created an outpost, and it's on IRC! < 1283558358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This I must see! < 1283558391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, he ignores me because I hurt his feelings. < 1283558403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(jonnynomind) < 1283558408 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283558414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate them because they broke my brain and I want it back. < 1283558434 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: basically it's polyphonic zzt #play < 1283558436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or does implementing monads in the language itself seem like an inelegant hack? < 1283558468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much, < 1283558469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*much. < 1283558504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:00:14 32-bit PCM is sufficient for recording the full dynamic range possible in air. < 1283558507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:00:18 This includes shock waves. < 1283558540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need that for those realistic nuclear hand grenade first-person shooters < 1283558572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He's going to treat us like a band of trolls! < 1283558575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invading! < 1283558576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or -- ignore us. < 1283558580 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haha that's nice < 1283558580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283558580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also "end of the world"-class disaster movie soundtracks. < 1283558595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283558602 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe you should just tell him that #esoteric is invading < 1283558621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTACK < 1283558626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave no prisoners! < 1283558649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "We will add your syntactical and semantical distinctiveness to our own. Your language will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." < 1283558696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*semantic, not semantical < 1283558719 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, yes. An esolang named Borg... < 1283558726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's a pretty good attack against the esoborg < 1283558739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is, exactly? < 1283558741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have them try to assimilate a poisonous language < 1283558748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283558774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: its only instruction is to load an esolang from the wiki < 1283558777 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to watch more Star Trek < 1283558781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combine it with the current one < 1283558782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: we'd need a Category:Borg_assimilee to add to other languages then < 1283558822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when it tries to assimilate a Lisp and Factor? < 1283558829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre and post fix? < 1283558838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They doesn't have to." < 1283558840 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they combine to get mixfix < 1283558841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I was vaguely wondering what a combination would be like < 1283558857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (define (f x) [(+ 2 "abc" length 2 +)] call) < 1283558876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more along the lines of some words being prefix some being suffic < 1283558879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suffix < 1283558882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no parents < 1283558885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parens < 1283558889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said synergies < 1283558932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an orphan language < 1283558937 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something Haskell-like except with suffix-functions < 1283558977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did you just seriously use the word synergy in a non-ironic context? < 1283558977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: did you seriously use the word non-ironic in an non-ironic context? < 1283558978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You could probably run Wolfram Research in a few years if you started now. < 1283558978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Uhm... is that good or bad? < 1283558986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, parens is no more a logical abbreviation of parentheses than parents is < 1283559006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, should I tell him or goad him further? < 1283559017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. < 1283559020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't tell him anything. < 1283559025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a silent invasion of laughter. < 1283559027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe slightly, the latter divides a phoneme < 1283559083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. < 1283559098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parenth, for people with lithpth. < 1283559101 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :218| Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. < 1283559103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jonnymind, oh, good. Your attitude towards language design is very similar to that of Wolfram himself. < 1283559104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Uhm... in that case: thanks. < 1283559124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : even the egos are similar.... < 1283559124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :) < 1283559124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .... < 1283559124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* jonnymind searches the ban button :) < 1283559133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even his channel members are turning against him! < 1283559155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor lucone, banned for getting the joke? < 1283559174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1283559178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's just ganging up against him < 1283559180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor guy < 1283559266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a addon for PPMCK that allows mixing MML codes with assembler codes and machine codes? < 1283559279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : falcon had to be fast in managing raw native data in a way that was high level and comfortable in a script. ← therefore monads. Makes sense. < 1283559342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A design philosophy combines their justifications into one coherent goal. < 1283559343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: was getting to it. < 1283559348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283559355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think we both know his design goal. < 1283559372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Put all of the cool toys from other languages in!" < 1283559376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I degenerate into just outright flaming his stupidity, I'm gonna whip out the Borg line. < 1283559401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what interesting esolangs can we add? < 1283559406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Feather! < 1283559418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Add to...? < 1283559427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falcon. < 1283559461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, stop being evil. < 1283559468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously want to interrogate this insane man. < 1283559471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK... :( < 1283559588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Feather barely even exists in its creator's mind. < 1283559588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Like a four-spatial-dimensional object, poking slightly in and moving around in some incomprehensible way, dropping out occasionally.) < 1283559588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o,O < 1283559588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's poetry... < 1283559603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add some of the INTERCAL stuff, such as the FORGET command and things like threaded COME FROM. < 1283559618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also add the preprepreprocessor. (Enhanced CWEB has a preprepreprocessor) < 1283559619 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283559670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, finally gave in? < 1283559676 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283559686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I realised it could work earlier on being said by Falcon. < 1283559727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA he does not know of our secret war room < 1283559755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shall take Tiger Mountain. By strategy! < 1283559757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: A friend just facebooked (and a friend-of-a-friend told a similiar story) about a plumber that came to fix something, left saying "I'll need to go get some more tools from the car", and then never came back (or at least not in two weeks). < 1283559769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, BtW, Feather is meant to be computable, and AFAIK is. < 1283559770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly there is an epidemic of alien plumber abductions < 1283559777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know. < 1283559806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait the other one was a maintenance guy, not a plumber < 1283559815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the evidence is clear, anyway < 1283559819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FTR he did eventually come back and say that it needs a part that he won't be able to get 'til Tuesday. < 1283559835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently aliens are bad at UFO maintenance. < 1283559845 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plumbers are just specialized pipe maintenance guys. < 1283559866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ooh, maybe they've been abducting people to fix it, yeah < 1283559880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1283559883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is primarily about pipe maintenance. < 1283559922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, another Voyager cast member who hates it! < 1283559924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[After being cast as Harry Kim, Wang had a strained relationship with Voyager executive producer Rick Berman, who took over from Star Trek inventor Gene Roddenberry: "When Roddenberry passed the reins over to [Rick] Berman, unfortunately Berman kept the same formula. And he just kept plugging it in. So when I'm asked what made Voyager stand out...you are talking about the same overall formula so it doesn't. It has stayed the same for every single episode. < 1283559924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"]] < 1283559941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why else would the internet tubes run on it, duh < 1283559947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In a 2007 interview with scifiworld.com, Wang voiced his displeasure about the show. He felt the Harry Kim character was "underused", passive and one-dimensional. Prior to Season 2, he went to the producers and said: "Listen I want to have a stunt double, I want to do some stunts, I want to run, I want to kick; I want to have a love life". He also stated to only have had "minimal" creative impact upon Harry Kim: he desperately wanted Harry Kim to be funn < 1283559947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ier, but the producers felt that Neelix or The Doctor fit better as comic relief. In the end, he described it as unfulfilling,[2] and also spoke of a "rift" between Berman and him.[1] When he complained that every other character on the show got promoted except Kim, he was told that he had to remain the lowly Ensign because "well someone's got to be the ensign".[3]]] < 1283560050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jonnymind: Philosophies usually are :) < 1283560051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let's say that there may be different ways to solve a problem. < 1283560051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not the complexity theory. < 1283560055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A--what now? < 1283560087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you want to enjoy Falcon? < 1283560093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have to keep the peace. < 1283560098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is interesting. < 1283560106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have decided he simply has really terrible taste. < 1283560107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are a better man than I. < 1283560126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...   [ name|"unknown", income| {=> self.name.len()*100} ], < 1283560128 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. Borg should have a design philosophy. < 1283560139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just call me Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz < 1283560155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still of the opinion that his philosophy is that other languages have cool things, and that he wants these cool things. < 1283560279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add commands to adjust the optimizer < 1283560300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add stack based programming < 1283560309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: to assimilate all other languages and their features is not obvious enough for you? < 1283560314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add dependent theorem proving! < 1283560366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Borg, how about have one construct, " will be assimilated" and then perform the following block of code? < 1283560402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i haven't looked at falcon but my intuition is that there are clearly cool features in various languages that are _incompatible_ with each other. and that _might_ be part of falcon's problem, i don't know. < 1283560404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly piping each block to the next, or viewing it as a function of some description. < 1283560436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need function concatenation operator < 1283560455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also known as "composition". < 1283560470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1283560516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" will be assimilated [as ] [with Phantom_Hoover: OOB seems to "tag" a value with a special invisible quality which makes some built-in functions do something different with it when they receive it. < 1283560762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why does everything have to be like Forth? Surely some non-Forth languages might be good? < 1283560792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that's more or less the idea i had for the LiMonadE vapor-language (unlambda + monads) < 1283560808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, augh at the pun < 1283560809 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not everything has be like Forth, but some of these feature are useful < 1283560814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the quality being the monad, of course) < 1283560816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1283560838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a preprepreprepreprocessor < 1283560848 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283560851 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also postpostpostprocessor < 1283560874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1283560896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this kind of feature can be useful sometime < 1283560930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see the use for more than a single layer of pre-processing in general. < 1283560951 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283560971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION consider lisp meta-macros < 1283560975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1283561028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...And jonnymind has just said that his monad model can easily break if you use it with map. < 1283561038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Words cannot express how stupid that is. < 1283561127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1283561159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1283561162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283561381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enhanced CWEB has its own meta-macros format, and they have many purposes, and can be mixed with TeX as well as with the C preprocessor, and that means it can do a lot of things. < 1283561477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A common thing I use is to define @-p to predeclare a procedure as well as start its definition, without having to repeat it) < 1283562396 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283562864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Re Falcon: it is both the incompatibility of everything, plus the, well, non-standard nomenclature. I would bet the designers do not hold degrees in CS (otherwise they would be more careful about what they call a "monad" or "functional programming", is all.) < 1283562918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1283562942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind you i don't hold a degree in CS either :D) < 1283562951 0 :Tatiana1!~tatiana@189.100.43.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283562982 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1283562988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283563012 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First of all, sorry for my terrible english < 1283563053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1283563056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not about religion. < 1283563084 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283563090 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you from? < 1283563096 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283563101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet < 1283563116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From home < 1283563128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home < 1283563130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me come home < 1283563135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home is whenever I'm with you < 1283563138 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to go to your own home < 1283563142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I go to my own home < 1283563239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: i am from norway. although this channel is not usually an "ordinary" chat channel either (we talk about computers, technology and math a lot) < 1283563255 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ordinary"? < 1283563268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that ordinary chat rooms have most of the people be from the same area? < 1283563279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, where would I find such a chat channel for my area? < 1283563292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i have no idea what they are like since i've probably never been on one :D < 1283563298 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it is a ecletic chat rsrsrs < 1283563309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecletic? < 1283563327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is for esoteric programming, so you can look at the wiki for more information about esoteric programming language < 1283563329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: buy a dictionary < 1283563334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what zzo38 said, i was about to say that < 1283563340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what i really mean is that we're not the kind of chat where you start out by asking people where they are from ;D < 1283563341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or use the internet < 1283563354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1283563379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such word as ecletic < 1283563387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is correct. We not generally start by asking where you are from < 1283563388 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worp < 1283563392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many of us do know where many of the others are from, eventually :) < 1283563408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least approximately < 1283563417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes looking at the IP address / domain name can help a bit < 1283563427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see where you are from, in case you are interested < 1283563448 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worp worp < 1283563455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Internet has been unhelpful < 1283563492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to do that, you can usually do a /whois someone's_nickname command. i think. it probably depends on client. < 1283563497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, i see, boring typo pointing outs < 1283563506 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoerp < 1283563510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alk < 1283563515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And eclectic doesn't seem to have any.. oh, I see what he thinks this is < 1283563520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a general chatroom? < 1283563523 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worp worp worp < 1283563525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combination of stuff? < 1283563526 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this client it just displays it in every message that user sends. < 1283563535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Are* there "general chatrooms" on freenode? < 1283563541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, defocus < 1283563557 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knarl < 1283563567 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283563569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do all sorts of stuff in this channel, but mostly programming stuff, and sometimes mathematical stuff, and things related to that, are most common. And esoteric programming discussion is on topic to this channel. < 1283563570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: defocus; it's shit < 1283563600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's an IRC channel < 1283563603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be shit? < 1283563614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This client displays other client's IP address / domain name before every message, in dark cyan, after the @ sign) < 1283563672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we _are_ pretty eclectic, just not general. iiuc what eclectic means. < 1283563678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is this one of your hyper-literal-interpretations-are-hilarious thing, or just... I don't know < 1283563679 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: #esoteric = (computer programmers | mathematicians) + (very smart | very strange | very creative) < 1283563687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hahahaha < 1283563688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about ego < 1283563698 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsrsrsrs i liked < 1283563706 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you from? < 1283563708 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: I don't follow "rsrsrs". < 1283563711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I guess that is pretty close! < 1283563723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's an uttern failure to understand < 1283563724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric = (dabblers & dilettantes & amateurs) + (computing skill) + (a few people of actual merit) :-) < 1283563732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're cool dilettantes! < 1283563733 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rsrsrsrs" = smile < 1283563741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: #defocus is shit. As a community ... it is shit. < 1283563742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suppose that is also it! < 1283563749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you unfamiliar with the expletive "shit"? < 1283563759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsrrrrr < 1283563772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: rsrsrsrs isn't very common here, we usually use smileys or maybe a lol < 1283563775 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: who is of actual merit? < 1283563783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never seen rsrsrsrs before now\ < 1283563784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suppose I'm painting the ideal rather than the reality. But, damn, most of us *are* one of those. < 1283563786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have seen rsr5 < 1283563798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo -----### < 1283563814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: well, that would be telling (and rude to everyone else). (ais523, cpressey, oerjan, a few others) < 1283563833 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc including yourself.... ? < 1283563835 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsrsrs or huahauhaua < 1283563842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I don't see why. < 1283563853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it < 1283563857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s r5rs? < 1283563861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, ignore that < 1283563863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION selffacepalms < 1283563869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dabbling dilettante with computing skill. I don't see why that doesn't fit me better than actually-skilled-person. < 1283563901 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: hau hau is actually a way to write the sound that dogs make < 1283563903 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Polish < 1283563912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think both cpressey's and alise's fits well. < 1283563931 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hau hua = is smiling < 1283563932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well. If you want to look at what we DO, sure. We dabble. We... dilletante things up. < 1283563933 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283563933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have a hunch alise may think general chatrooms are shit in general < 1283563948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: absolutely not! I loooove #esoteric < 1283563956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1283563958 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are your from? < 1283563966 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283563970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i thought we just established #esoteric was _not_ a general chatroom < 1283563974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The observable Universe < 1283563983 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had that map, remember? < 1283563984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well we like to pretend it's not :-) < 1283563996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: I am from Canada, in case you really care. (You can check my domain name and see that my service provider is from Canada, too) < 1283563999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: we downloaded all the data before the site shot itself < 1283564002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has no face!.... erm, it has no topic1 < 1283564027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although of course #esoteric may be twisted into an approximation of what hyper-geeks might think an ideal general chatroom _should_ be. it's why i'm here, isn't it. < 1283564029 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understood < 1283564039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: England, the country of violating 14 year olds' human rights as defined by the UN, and rain. < 1283564043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, I'm totally not bitter or anything. < 1283564049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that reference is ungoogleable < 1283564050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1283564057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *topic! < 1283564074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is modarchive.org -able < 1283564087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ? < 1283564094 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing :D < 1283564113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that the n in nooga stands for "nothing" < 1283564122 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I`m from Brazil < 1283564126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: actually my swat wasn't for your misspelling, i didn't even notice that :D < 1283564136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what, "on topic"? A few days ago I released a stupid language called Eightebed, which proved nothing *really*, but which released me to work on something else for a while. I've had a few ideas, one of which is a fixed set of grid-rewrite rules which I think could be Turing-complete in an interesting way. < 1283564142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: But maybe you want to see the things that the people on this channel have invented and stuff, if you really care, that is. < 1283564152 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: Poland, polar bears, vodka, moustache etc etc < 1283564167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the occasional vodka moustache. < 1283564172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1283564179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to make BF-RLE sound important < 1283564183 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen a goddamn polar bear < 1283564198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: oh in reply to what i said? :) < 1283564202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISIDTID < 1283564212 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so ;f < 1283564236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Go to the zoo < 1283564240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=73115 < 1283564241 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I`m telling the truth < 1283564244 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, sleep time, brb < 1283564249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shipped with the desktop version of Alchemy < 1283564296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: we didn't say otherwise < 1283564317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: I'm more of a "This sentence is false" person myself. < 1283564347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence is true but unprovable. < 1283564363 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283564387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence is false, but its negation is unprovable. < 1283564397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm not sure you quite get the r part of brb < 1283564417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you sleep rather fast < 1283564421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence is true, and its negation is unprovable < 1283564428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence is false and unprovable < 1283564434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work out stuff relating to the above < 1283564442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes hand-wavy gesture < 1283564460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence is equivalent to the Riemann hypothesis. < 1283564482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely "The Riemann hypothesis." is simpler? < 1283564484 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tatiana1: Brazil's pretty cool. That's where Lua comes from. < 1283564486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283564491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely "The Riemann hypothesis is true." is simpler? < 1283564492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sentence's negation is provable if and only if the Riemann hypothesis is correct. < 1283564497 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua? < 1283564522 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot to mention: we're largely concerned with programming languages, formal calculi, and models of computation here. < 1283564527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua's a programming language. < 1283564534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hm < 1283564537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May be easier to deal with "This sentence's negation is provable if and only if statement P is true." < 1283564553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See how that relates to statement P < 1283564560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK. < 1283564578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jsforth guy complained about Lua due to lack of bit manipulation < 1283564579 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "largely concerned" is too strong. Theoretically, we all like those things. They make us feel good. < 1283564581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1283564615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I also complained about Lua due to lack of bit manipulations, too. < 1283564634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could care less for bit manipulations. I mostly like Lua. < 1283564652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind 1-indexing in a language. But when it's supposed to interact with C.. < 1283564667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really a strong complaint, but still < 1283564679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh! adjustable indexing! < 1283564682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns into a Perl < 1283564688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : either that or you sleep rather fast ;; damn Uberman < 1283564706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Surely "The Riemann hypothesis is true." is simpler? ;; Surely [Riemann hypothesis] is simpler? < 1283564770 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not thrilled with the conflating of maps and arrays. Part of me says, that's just going too far. < 1283564783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fun! < 1283564791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION evillaughs < 1283564848 0 :Tatiana2!~tatiana@189.100.43.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283564877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Better than Tcl conflating everything with strings. < 1283564919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION o.Os at the number of Titanics in the Futurama universe < 1283564942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is it countable or uncountable? < 1283564954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :countably finite < 1283564962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORING < 1283564967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if "uncountably finite" makes sense < 1283564985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1283565009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It only make sense if what you mean by "uncountably" is that it is too long to count and you don't have time or words for them < 1283565030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is probably not what is meant, because it isn't what it meant in "uncountably infinite" < 1283565031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate only having 3 options when there are 2 booleans < 1283565038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that model of ZF without axiom of choice where two definitions or finite don't coincide, though < 1283565050 0 :Tatiana1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283565052 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-51-218.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283565084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them being essentially "can be counted by a finite natural number", the other being "is not the same size as a proper subset of itself" < 1283565160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example of a set where those definitions aren't equivalent? < 1283565161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if you can be counted by any ordinal at all, those two coincide < 1283565208 0 :Tatiana2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283565258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in such a model you have sets that are not equivalent to a proper subset of themselves, but which _still_ are not equivalent in size to any {1,...,n} < 1283565284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Sgeo wonders if "uncountably finite" makes sense <-- Thank you; you are justifying "very strange" < 1283565311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have a table with 4 spaces with one space not making sense! < 1283565315 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 2, 3... ah, shit, I'm bored. Well, I guess that the numbers on the clock are uncountably finite. < 1283565315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot embed _all_ the naturals into them, but you can embed any finite set of naturals. you cannot extend the embedding to all without using the axiom of choice. < 1283565316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sometimes think of strange things like that too, but not specifically that < 1283565319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ugly and horrible and nightmare incuding < 1283565394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense such a set is uncountable (not equivalent to a subset of naturals) but still finite in the other sense < 1283565408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Awesome < 1283565443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is ugly and horrible? And why? < 1283565453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A B < 1283565456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ~B < 1283565460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~A B < 1283565466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~A ~B doesn't exist < 1283565486 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in what context? < 1283565518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any! *insanes* < 1283565626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind-finite < 1283565658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbing non-verbs, a clear sign of insaning < 1283565672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bit insane too, a bit.... but I don't consider myself ugly and horrible and nightmare incuding < 1283565696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1283565774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION happies oerjan for allowing "uncountably finite" to exist < 1283565873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insane people do things that are improper because the proper way is very wrong < 1283565962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celia Green wrote a book with the thesis that in all of human history, only two people were sane. Everyone else was (and is) insane. < 1283565974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thought I'd throw that out there. < 1283565990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which two? < 1283566004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And insane monsters do things that are very improper because the very proper way is extremely wrong. < 1283566017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I play D&D game I prefer to play monster character. < 1283566050 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also because someone wrote a book, I don't know which book I mean, though. < 1283566085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seconds Sgeo's question < 1283566112 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which two people? Or, does Celia Green not know which two? < 1283566208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the answer must be something explosive. < 1283566270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Jesus Christ and Frederick Neitzsche. < 1283566296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not saying I agree with her, or anything. < 1283566297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had a hunch about the first one < 1283566300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: THey are also just as insane as everyone else, I think < 1283566411 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I agree. I would also note that Jesus Christ, as portrayed in the New Testament, is in my opinion largely fictional, and that ol' Fred is just as insane as anyone else, just in a completely different direction. < 1283566451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I say the latter based on having read Thus Spoke Zarathustra; I've never read the New Testament from cover to cover, though.) < 1283566488 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fred makes some good points, but, sheesh. Calm down, dude. Sit. Have some tea. Organize your thoughts. < 1283566506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, I agree with you about Neitzsche, and about Jesus, that may be correct (we don't actually know what (if anything) happened, it is just written by a few people). < 1283566751 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my character is dead, I create another character, a different monster character, also, and beginning at the next session, and the DM has to fit it into the game somehow, there are many ways < 1283566862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clones! < 1283566870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why people are following him < 1283566944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clones? < 1283566957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are clones following you? < 1283567366 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283567387 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283567450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they must have got him < 1283567547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! I didn't mean to do that! < 1283567563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pushed the "d" button! That makes the room exsovalve! < 1283567572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well too late now < 1283567598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably be panicking if i knew what exsovalve was < 1283567613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what exsovalve is either < 1283567616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/probably/clearly/ < 1283567642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good. then maybe we can avoid panic < 1283567650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1283567804 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Food? < 1283567810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is food following you? < 1283567938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm stalking it. < 1283567951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ha! < 1283567963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, well, an INTERCAL reference in #haskell. < 1283567975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means everyone playing "the game" has to take a swig. < 1283567979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a swig < 1283568217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what they call "the game" these days < 1283568254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly INTERCAL is no match for haskell's reverse state monad < 1283568445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so much crazy, so little time. < 1283568617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I do, to make the best use of my limited crazy-time? < 1283568667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck if _i_ know < 1283568752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't know? < 1283568802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem is obviously at _least_ NP-complete. < 1283568806 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not. Don't mean to put that burden on ' < 1283568811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y'all. < 1283568837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first, I'm going to see if the reverse state monad is something real, or something oerjan just made up. < 1283568855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1283568867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently real < 1283568909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top google hit seems aptly named < 1283569078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can only imagine how that works. < 1283569095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My understanding of monads is (ask Phantom_Hoover) still quite crude. < 1283569106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I *can* imagine. < 1283569116 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking just the other day, < 1283569131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You know, there ought to be any number of really bizarre monads you could write" < 1283569146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that anyone in this channel could think of any at the time) < 1283569329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think of any at the time, because I don't know a lot about monads, to think of it. < 1283569886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought reverse state was an esome inventiojn < 1283569971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that simply placing cheese between slices of bread and grilling it freaking *delicious*? < 1283569979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/freaking/is freaking/ < 1283570025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can make sandwich! < 1283570049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I hate non-grilled cheese sandwiches < 1283570059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are grilled really that much better? I never tried < 1283570106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Non-grilled cheese sandwiches? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS. < 1283570132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is a scientific reason. Let me see if I can remember it. < 1283570133 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just eat the bread, then eat some cheese a while later... < 1283570211 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grilled sandwich is better, at least in my opinion. < 1283570235 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have some tomato in it too, then definitely yes < 1283570317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should find out how to grill sandwiches < 1283570330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a grill, don't I? Are there safe indoors grills? < 1283570337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's *ridiculously* easy. < 1283570343 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a frying pan and some butter < 1283570350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a frying pan, some butter, and a sandwich. < 1283570384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heat up frying pan. Butter bread. Apply to frying pan until sufficiently grilled. Flip. Apply to frying pan until sufficiently grilled. Remove. Eat. < 1283570389 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butter? use olive oil. < 1283570425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long does that take? < 1283570426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq, I hate non-grilled cheese sandwiches < 1283570426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are grilled really that much better? I never tried ;; yes < 1283570429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes, you can also just oil the *pan* instead of the *sandwich*. < 1283570441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not long < 1283570442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like, 5 minutes? < 1283570445 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo < 5 minutes < 1283570446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are far, far better < 1283570446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1283570451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must advocate the superior option < 1283570453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheese on toast < 1283570458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is how you make cheese on toast: < 1283570461 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I cannot find a reference to it. But I found a book with a fantastic title: http://books.google.com/books?id=-oRp5VCVTQQC < 1283570467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't taste less bad after some time, does it? < 1283570472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283570484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might end up bringing such sandwiches to school < 1283570484 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unless you like it burnt < 1283570496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, as in, make it, bring it to school, eat at school < 1283570498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheese on toast: Put butter on two slices of bread. Thick bread. Put cheese on these two slices. Strong cheese. Grill it (or whatever you want to do instead). < 1283570519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a more manly dish than a grilled cheese sandwich, but ... rather harder to store. < 1283570524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you want to eat it hot. < 1283570541 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about using an actual grill to make grilled cheese < 1283570578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMaybe I won't spend so much money on buying chicken sandwiches from the place on campus < 1283570599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, so. Texas toast and strong cheese. < 1283570608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, it is... why isn't poultry meat? < 1283570618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's best hot. < 1283570618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It ... is .... < 1283570621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*... < 1283570627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Texas toast? Fuck that shit. < 1283570633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's thick bread. < 1283570635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :/ < 1283570648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nobody British enough to make a proper cheese on toast would buy anything with Texas in the name. < 1283570668 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I dimly remember some biochemistry term like "queso-opioid" or something, to refer to the chemicals that are produced when you bake or fry cheese. < 1283570672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Texas toast" is literally just thickly-sliced bread. < 1283570680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, if it's bright, strong yellow and sliced it's not cheese. < 1283570688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking proper fucking cheddar here. < 1283570703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn! I want to go there sometime. To Cheddar, I mean. < 1283570708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides not to make a Sgeo-style joke < 1283570709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You want more horrification? < 1283570718 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cheese tastes better melted because it's filled with drugs? < 1283570719 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1283570720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The cheesy channel | (a(:^)*S):^ | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? (Wiki capable of running nearly-arbitrary code) Vote: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1283570720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's things more artificial than "American cheese". < 1283570724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they have a cheese tourism culture there... like Wisconsin. < 1283570736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: haha wow < 1283570745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: For instance, there's "sliced cheese food product". People actually buy this and eat it. < 1283570763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I am totally not hearing you! < 1283570810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue what kind of cheese is in the house < 1283570814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American, I think < 1283570826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mostly composed of vegetable oil. < 1283570877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get you some cheddar. Now that's cheese. < 1283570922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: American cheese is just bad cheddar + various other suspicious crap added + stupid colouring. < 1283570939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ whatever else Kraft decides they want you to have in your body as opposed to something you actually want in your body -- of the week < 1283571034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually American cheese is just leftover bits of cheese from *various things* + emulsifiers + stupid colouring. < 1283571048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: With more crap added to make it lower quality sometimes. < 1283571075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it's pre-wrapped slices, it's got crap added. And it's vomitous, rather than merely crappy.) < 1283571100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, so no actual proper cheese. < 1283571117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from leftovers. < 1283571122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tl;dr get some mature cheddar. < 1283571123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I only wish I could find a reference for it so I'm sure I'm not hallucinating it. < 1283571125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :casual caseine < 1283571127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not medium. Mature. < 1283571137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not extra-super-duper mature, though, that's kind of icky. < 1283571142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been interested in cheese enough to care before < 1283571146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, *casein < 1283571147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Icky = Hey, I eat one crumb and it feels like my mouth hurts.) < 1283571159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's probably because American cheese is the most boringly uninspiring food product there is. < 1283571169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheddar itself is delicious. Seriously. < 1283571182 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does american cheese taste so bad < 1283571224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: as in [does it really?] or [what is the cause?] < 1283571242 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the cause < 1283571251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sometimes, it's instead just throwing together milk, whey, milk fat, milk protein, salt, and emulsifiers in the right proportions. < 1283571264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: that. < 1283571271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it is the most boring and bland cheese ever. < 1283571301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cottage cheese has more flavor. And *that's* just curds and whey with some of the whey drained off. < 1283571374 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :american cheese has a flavor < 1283571380 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tastes bad :D < 1283571405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crappy American cheese tastes bad. < 1283571411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Good" American cheese just lacks taste. < 1283571448 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many grades? < 1283571491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with Cheez Whiz? < 1283571507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Easy Cheese? < 1283571522 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :familiar no, I stay the hell away from that stuff < 1283571532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are also American cheese. < 1283571534 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my parents never buy it < 1283571588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Easy Cheese, BTW, is "cheese" in a spray can. Yes. A spray can. < 1283571592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only contact we Brits have with your icky American cheese crap is when we go into burger joints. < 1283571596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what. < 1283571605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Easy_cheese2.jpg < 1283571613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I... loaded the page. < 1283571618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look like cheese. < 1283571634 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) cheese is not orange < 1283571636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tastes like artificial cheese flavor. < 1283571660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Kraft died tomorrow, the only innocent casualties would be a few chocolate brands. < 1283571666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Toblerone, Milka. That's all I can think of.) < 1283571670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Cheddar cheese often is. (for no good reason, it's very common to dye it orange-yellow-ish) < 1283571683 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's regional < 1283571692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but still. < 1283571694 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: here they don't dye it so it's white < 1283571702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I live, they make cheddar cheese both white and orange, they make both kinds. < 1283571716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong cheddar is never coloured in my experience < 1283571724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the orange is just the wimpy stuff for people who can't handle cheese < 1283571731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc you can get white mild cheddar too) < 1283571759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you'd be amazed by some of the processed "foods" available in the US. < 1283571771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1995 it was revealed that the Swedish politician Mona Sahlin had bought, among other things, two bars of Toblerone using her Riksdag credit card (i.e. taxpayer's money). This became known as the Toblerone affair. Sahlin was forced to step down as a candidate for the post as Prime Minister." < 1283571792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, in the UK when our MPs started putting houses and porn and shit on their expenses, we just yelled at them for a month or two. < 1283571805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE MOTHER FUCKING IMITATION MAYONNAISE. < 1283571813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, porn is one thing. But TOBLERONE??? < 1283571818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...but mayonnaise is the simplest thing to exist, ever < 1283571838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Miracle Whip". It's imitation. Fucking. Mayonnaise. < 1283571858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want to talk about this any more or ever again or ever make it stop < 1283571891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the pain stop < 1283571893 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One thing I have discovered is that in the US, unlike Canada, you can get actual *pickle relish*. It's amazing. I didn't even know it existed before. < 1283571904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Pickle relish is delicious. < 1283571921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it illegal in Canada? < 1283571942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No -- I had just never been able to find it. It's all sweet relish. < 1283571959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283571959 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1933, Kraft was a well-established distributor of mayonnaise, yet sales were slipping as a result of the Great Depression.[citation needed] Kraft developed a new dressing similar to mayonnaise, but at a lower price. Premiering at the Century of Progress World's Fair in Chicago in 1933, Miracle Whip was an instant success as a condiment on fruits, vegetables and salads." < 1283571966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pickle relish is CORRUPTING OUR CHILDREN < 1283571992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, be glad you're not Italian. < 1283571999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no children and I use no relish. < 1283572001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh how I could make you pain. < 1283572010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: COMMUNIST < 1283572013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat < 1283572026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what, this might actually do it anyways. < 1283572028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Kraftparmesan.jpg < 1283572031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: COMMUNIST??? < 1283572038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, really. That's powdered "parmesan". < 1283572039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mind you Mona Sahlin got better, she's currently the opposition's PM candidate < 1283572048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again) < 1283572114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wow, I'm amazed that's a scandal over there. Props to you guys. < 1283572127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: SOCIALISM FASCISM < 1283572150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, there's also imitation whipped cream. < 1283572164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's currently somewhat of a "scandal" in norway about at least three government ministers accepting afghan carpets as gifts (completely legally, mind you) < 1283572168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often in a spray can! < 1283572206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those are the prime minister, foreign minister and defense minister, i.e. the three that actually had any business going to afghanistan) < 1283572209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, I'm only naming highly commonly consumed things, not niche oddities. < 1283572217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I cry please? < 1283572231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise I'd mention things like canned pancake batter) < 1283572235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I accidentally got upset over a simplification for teaching the other day < 1283572236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283572246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you guys let me come live there? Thanks. < 1283572267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I didn't realize that that's what it was, and I didn't know what it was non-simplified, and I got confused because the simplified BS made no sense whatsoever < 1283572301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should explain what I'm talking about < 1283572388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We also brought non-dairy creamer to the world. < 1283572419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, that was Switzerland. < 1283572436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was talking about sigfigs < 1283572437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switzerland AND BRITAIN < 1283572444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You should be ashamed. < 1283572455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how for addition and subtraction, you just look at the number of significant figures after the decimal place < 1283572503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize that this was just equivalent in some cases (presumably all that we'll be dealing with) to making the highest-place sigfig be the highest lowest sigfig in the operation < 1283572504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why is that being taught in university? < 1283572526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not taught in high school. < 1283572530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283572532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /are/ joking < 1283572538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did do sigfigs in HS < 1283572541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1283572547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just been a while < 1283572556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unit did significant figures shit with me recently (year 10; most people would be 15, me 14) < 1283572559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i remember thinking < 1283572564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this simple shit being taught so late?? < 1283572577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it was also mention iirc that the minister for development (i.e. charity) had gotten a goat and a wife in sierra leone. however, he apparently didn't bring either back home ;D < 1283572582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mentioned < 1283572584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In many high school programs, it's not taught at all. < 1283572595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The goat /was/ the wife. < 1283572603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I refuse to answer. Let me cry alone. < 1283572612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I were joking. < 1283572613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, that was another story, which i also seem to recall :D < 1283572631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name a programming language or library which supports significant figures. < 1283572641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Falcon < 1283572645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the goat and the wife were as _gifts_, in case it wasn't clear) < 1283572649 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP! < 1283572654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha < 1283572665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here! Take my wife, Western king! (She's a whore.)" < 1283572681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds Stargate-ish < 1283572745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: About what age do you guys generally get to algebra? < 1283572794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh, around the same age. < 1283572807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which is? < 1283572812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial shit, like "find x and y". < 1283572815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 15 < 1283572823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah, around the same age. < 1283572830 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took it in 8th grade.. so what's that.. 13? < 1283572833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty depressing. < 1283572845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Around the same time as significant figures. :P < 1283572845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: About. I did it in 7th. < 1283572853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, perhaps earlier, actually. < 1283572867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the unit were on this ridiculous "HE IS LACKING IN EDUCATION" kick at the time. < 1283572885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did calculus his junior year. Whooooo... < 1283572894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Education sometime around the 18th birthday? < 1283572948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used sigfigs in physics class. I don't like using sigfigs except with scientific notation. When the question involved sigfigs I wrote down the answer using scientific notation. < 1283572952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw political sign saying all kids should learn to read by 3rd grade.. I couldn't believe my eyes < 1283572971 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I live in AZ.. and we suck :( < 1283573007 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283573010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I remember people still struggling with reading in my 3rd grade class. < 1283573014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly, every kid in my kintergarted class learned to read rather quickly < 1283573017 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR sigfigs way earlier than algebra. Then again, ISTR a sigfigs "refresher" in 1st-year undergrad physics. Soooo... < 1283573022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was at some SLCD place < 1283573038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The teacher decided to teach phonics then. First time they'd seen any hint of words having anything to do with phonemes. < 1283573060 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people make fun of phonics.. but they work < 1283573066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid phonetic alphabet! Who needs it! < 1283573077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The School for Language and Communication Development" < 1283573107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Better than brute-force pattern recognition. < 1283573112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION o.Os at it being a school for children with "language and autism disorders" < 1283573112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, < 1283573129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, is *not* how Japanese or Chinese people learn their script...) < 1283573155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Perhaps there is different way learning better for a different language < 1283573170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why o.O < 1283573186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, I'm just pointing that out because some idiots go "ZOMG Chinese does whole language stuff THATS GREAT" < 1283573198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though there's rather a lot of phonetic cues in there) < 1283573201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I saw political sign saying all kids should learn to read by 3rd grade.. I couldn't believe my eyes ;; what age is third grade????? < 1283573202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O, that is why < 1283573211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because this channel has, at least once, tried to convince me that I am not on the spectrum? < 1283573237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why the kindergarden you went to should change any of that. < 1283573238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Uh... 8 to 9. < 1283573249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably everyone in here has at least a minor-- < 1283573253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... < 1283573254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1283573259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, very funny. < 1283573273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spectral geo < 1283573274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "n the United States, third grade (called grade 3 in some regions) is a year of primary education. It is the third school year after kindergarten. Students are usually 8 - 9 years old, depending on when their birthday occurs." -- Wikipedia < 1283573299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I... < 1283573324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who can't read by the time they enter nursery -- or at least leave nursery to enter proper school -- are considered thick as all hell. < 1283573327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over here. < 1283573352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't everyone get the Reading stuff at 8 years old? < 1283573357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is nursery the equivalent of kindergarten? < 1283573363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "the Reading stuff"? < 1283573367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... What? What? < 1283573377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty much. I'm not sure whether it's leaving nursery or entering nursery when you should be able to read or else you're really fucking retarded. < 1283573377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes it is. < 1283573377 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR everyone being able to read, and probably write, in 1st grade. < 1283573385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, someone learning to read in nursery is probably considered fine. < 1283573387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php < 1283573388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although your parents probably suck. < 1283573391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For not teaching you sooner. < 1283573394 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming nursery == kindergarten. < 1283573411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ah, that. < 1283573412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283573492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Kindergarten is not compulsory in all states. < 1283573517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if nursery is compulsory here. < 1283573521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But point is, wtf Arizona. < 1283573531 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION more cheese toast < 1283573545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, there are many who arrive in first grade (that's about-equal to *year two* for you) not being able to read. < 1283573555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, I have addictified cpressey with my quasi-opioid drug toast. < 1283573557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, cheese. < 1283573599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I propose brutal eugenics. < 1283573602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In language first graders are taught the fundamentals of literacy, including reading sentences, writing very simple statements and mastery of the alphabet, building on what the students have learned in kindergarten or other forms of pre-school (although because first grade is the first compulsory level of education in many U.S. states, the level of literacy in incoming students can vary widely)." -- Wikipedia. < 1283573614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it'll be utter fascism for a few generations, but it's not like it'll be any worse than your current political climate. < 1283573616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the *fucking alphabet*. < 1283573621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can get some actual shit done. < 1283573625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Six and seven year olds*. < 1283573684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with such concepts as "a clock" or "a calendar" or "money". < 1283573701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate your country. < 1283573705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not for your freedom, either. < 1283573718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling this was designed assuming that parents would never interact with their crotch-fruit. < 1283573741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crotch-fruit is the most horrific term I have ever heard. < 1283573869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How does primary-school math education go there? < 1283573940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... in a way that I utterly cannot remember. Ask Wikipedia. < 1283573953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't detail. < 1283573976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff-like, then. < 1283573978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it. :P < 1283574025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you already read Profession, so I can spoil it? < 1283574064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283574092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the United States, in mathematics, fourth graders are usually taught how to add and subtract common fractions and decimals. Long division is also generally introduced here, and addition, subtraction, and multiplication of whole numbers is extended to larger numbers." < 1283574104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember, the day we were to learn multiplication < 1283574111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had watched some tapes on arithmatic < 1283574115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of ... integers? < 1283574121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was convinced that a*b != b*a < 1283574122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, naturals. < 1283574132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, of naturals. < 1283574132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've said this before < 1283574133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283574146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember long division! 4th grade sounds right. I still do it sometimes. < 1283574155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1283574158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why were you convinced that a*b != b*a ? < 1283574162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is clear proof of the matrix < 1283574192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it made no sense that 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 sort of thing should always work < 1283574221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've mentioned this in here before < 1283574232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember once, in 6th grade < 1283574254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convincing myself that 2/0 = 4/0 but not 3/0. I think because 2/0 * 2/2 = 4/0 < 1283574263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then how did 1/0 interact with stuff < 1283574266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< oerjan> (mind you i don't hold a degree in CS either :D) < 1283574271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up crying over this < 1283574278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically Sgeo has always been a crank mathematician at heart < 1283574280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was a bit of a crybaby) < 1283574283 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, clearly your degree was in Punning. < 1283574283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ok, maybe you are autistic < 1283574308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, Dot Action has driven me near tears these past few days, but I think that is intentional on the part of its creator. < 1283574310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or my memory may be wrong :/ < 1283574317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes you did mention about 2/0 = 4/0 but not 3/0, before. < 1283574368 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283574379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punning should so have been a city in china < 1283574442 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from near Punning, who had an idea oh-so cunning < 1283574465 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1283574477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limericks are going TOO FAR, cpressey < 1283574479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283574491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when you don't manage to make them scan < 1283574526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is "idea" two syllables < 1283574558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it scans _well_ in any case < 1283574580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANnoying: Having to explain to an adult why x/0 is generally not considered to work before explaining how I think I'm getting it to work < 1283574580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from near Punning < 1283574581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who had an idea oh-so cunning < 1283574581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to his dismay < 1283574581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waking the next day < 1283574581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He found the neighbour's wife stunning. < 1283574584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't come up with the last line < 1283574591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I made up something random instead < 1283574653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Um... the "a" in "idea" just sort of floats there non-disruptively in the meter, for my ears. But I can see how it might not technically fit < 1283574757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1283574763 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283574853 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283575232 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik "idea" isn't germanic native < 1283575256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283575399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close to finishing stage 32 < 1283575429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 is DEATH < 1283575436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIQUID DEATH < 1283575517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: afaik it's greek < 1283575742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DANG IT < 1283575750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got the last green dot on 32 and died < 1283575807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No flash = No Dot Action 2. :( < 1283575810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun thing is that the part that looks hardest is incredibly easy < 1283575882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEAR! ! ! < 1283575897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yeah, but this is English. < 1283575904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: We despise native words. < 1283575907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And thus no purpose in life. < 1283575946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: To the point of having a non-native *pronoun*. < 1283576056 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? :) < 1283576059 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1283576083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they" is from Old Norse, rather than Old English. < 1283576223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 was annoying < 1283576276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 34 supposed to be doable? < 1283576329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283576331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is "are". < 1283576440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "am" iirc < 1283576490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, that's from Old English. < 1283576500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious cognate with Old Norse, though. < 1283576500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU SAY SO < 1283577198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I see absolutely no way to travel down the staircase of 34 < 1283577218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uhh, screenshot me up. I forget. < 1283577239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying to post screenshots < 1283577251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur.com < 1283577257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I know about it < 1283577262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what's before that's annoying < 1283577266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, I'm on Windows < 1283577272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt+printscr < 1283577273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mspaint < 1283577274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl+v < 1283577275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save < 1283577276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :png < 1283577276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283577276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1283577277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur.com < 1283577279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying < 1283577288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, I'll do all the work for you as well as telling you how to do it. < 1283577291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too kind ... < 1283577311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I want a screenshot program that automatically uploads to imgur < 1283577318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: protip < 1283577319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy < 1283577358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: another tip: Higher is better. < 1283577366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another tip: Control is unnecessary. < 1283577384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of revealed that a bunch of people from another channel are the new people in #falcon < 1283577385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. "Modern Indo-European". < 1283577391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now one person's asking me from where < 1283577400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if I should reveal it or not < 1283577403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um < 1283577412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd not reveal. < 1283577414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with reconstructed Proto-Indo-European, specify enough of it to make it an actual language. < 1283577414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I jump before the staircase, I die < 1283577415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need those people :P < 1283577418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So don't jump. < 1283577436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't jump, I die < 1283577444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless maybe if I start on that elevated thingy and < 1283577514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ty < 1283577519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I died on that lone block < 1283577584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of time < 1283577651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy < 1283577654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283577666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to kill old habits < 1283577710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C L E A R ! ! ! < 1283578113 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283578486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283578512 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283578827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1283579220 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283580156 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1283583066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283583077 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283583409 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1283584138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :105 requires a bit of thought < 1283584203 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1283584263 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283584392 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p5B216CA4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283584423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I just tried writing my first Falcon program, and it doesn't even *work*. < 1283584457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This language is fascinatingly bad. < 1283584460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1283584470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Falcon, not Factor < 1283584479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes. NOT Factor. < 1283584518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=sitewiki&prj_id=_falcon_site&sid=wiki&pwid=Code+Snippets&wid=snippet%3Apicker <-- the first program there, what would you expect it to output? 89, maybe? < 1283584541 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It outputs '1'. < 1283584622 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283585394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how well it works, or how good it is. < 1283585455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does have some good features, such as metacompilation and prototype OOP. < 1283585679 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283586010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably use a different program language < 1283586402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283586990 0 :Nomz!~Nomz@203.124.30.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283587036 0 :Nomz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum 1 here ????? < 1283587070 0 :Nomz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get n e reply frmm n e 1 < 1283587199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283587200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283587285 0 :Nomz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283587406 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283587636 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283587636 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283587636 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283589213 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-223.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283589752 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-227.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283590867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283591623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:44:14 clearly INTERCAL is no match for haskell's reverse state monad ← I must see this. < 1283591886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I cannot for the life of me tell how it works. < 1283592337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the let statement is completely insane. < 1283593181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, I missed out on the cheese discussion. < 1283593403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:59:54 pikhq: Uh, around the same age. ← My school did it at around 11 or 12 for the top set, although it was pretty trivial. < 1283593877 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283594380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Falcon is a small, fast and powerful embeddable programming language." < 1283594392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently they are using some odd definition of "small". < 1283594775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, I have it! < 1283594786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're trying to make a language bigger than Common Lisp! < 1283594834 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283595063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283595447 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying, it seems I have constructive interference of the noise from my computer and my monitor. Causing a very annoying high pitched tone exactly where it is most comfortable to sit. Moving head a few cm in any direction removes the noise. Turning off monitor removes it. But it isn't there when listening close to the monitor when it is turned on. < 1283596143 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283596234 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B216CA4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283598736 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283598738 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283601529 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283601840 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have come to the conclusion that brainfuck is not an esoteric language; it is well known and somewhat popular. The only thing that can define it as esoteric, as of now, is its being of a turing tarpit. However, many non-esoteric languages are also turing tarpits - such as BASIC, Bash, and PHP. < 1283601845 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sarcasm) < 1283602791 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is turing tarpit?? < 1283602993 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook < 1283602997 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now. < 1283603005 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, it was almost like Windows for them < 1283603044 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1283603079 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"3 Documentation? What Documentation?" < 1283603097 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can assign almost every chapter to recent MS Windows systems < 1283603116 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows XP is still my favorite OS < 1283603145 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from the lack of inter-process comunication, and driver hell, I haven't had a single problem with the OS itself. < 1283603161 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1283603165 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not counting the lack of DX10/11. < 1283603168 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also used it for a long time < 1283603188 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not counting the awful Luna theme. < 1283603188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then my computers had more cores and RAM than XP can handle < 1283603199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283603213 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran it on a 2 ghz machien with 2 GB RAM, and an ati x1500. < 1283603217 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine* < 1283603354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides he hates the UHH purely on the basis of its front cover. < 1283603380 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good points aren't something that you throw away because of their tone and source. < 1283603423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They overlaid black text on a black-and-white image. < 1283603428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should DIE. < 1283603461 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1283603781 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283603829 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283604217 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uugh enumerators < 1283604518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283604879 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283605857 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283607983 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1283611676 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-123.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283612697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, < 1283612697 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then it was that the text was indeed in english. < 1283612706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO < 1283613568 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283613985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now of the opinion that Turkish Star Wars is far funnier than Plan 9. < 1283614482 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283614498 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have written a "munching squares" program for BytePusher. < 1283615325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION munches squares < 1283615466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is much shorter than the other two programs. < 1283615503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program is 3073 bytes long. The scrolling logo is 100608 bytes long. The keyboard test is 130558 bytes long. < 1283615572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the screenshot on the wiki page for BytePusher < 1283616257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is a article about munching squares on Wikipedia) < 1283616258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:53 < OmniMancer> from what I read in the logs these people have been locked in a closet with a small set of very pure langauges all their lives and know nothing of the real world < 1283616281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is kind of true < 1283616299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: from #falcon? < 1283616305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1283616316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is jonnymind there? < 1283616320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1283616322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, yes. So he can ban me. < 1283616345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: has the discussion been relatively civil? < 1283616347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before this < 1283616368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, jonnymind wasn't there until just before I left. < 1283616377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ^? < 1283616384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: has it been? < 1283616425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OmniMancer was exasperated, but that was the extent of it. < 1283616570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example of PUSHEM code: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/Munching_Squares.pushem < 1283616618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Tell me what the replies are :-) < 1283616620 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283616630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's cool < 1283616694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can you understand this code? < 1283616706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, but i haven't tried < 1283616805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you try? < 1283616898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might another time < 1283616900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite long < 1283616943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1283617181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bah, I wanted to see an epic debate. < 1283617198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's leave those retards alone. :D < 1283617202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're no fun. < 1283618358 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6CFB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283619422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283619442 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283619659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1996, Forbes went to work for Microsoft,[1] and Microsoft's cabinet archiver was enhanced to include the LZX compression method. Improvements included a variable search window size; Amiga LZX was fixed to 64kB, Microsoft LZX could range on powers of two between 32 and 2048 kilobytes. A special preprocessor was added to detect Intel 80x86 "CALL" instructions, converting their operands from relative addressing to absolute addressing, thus calls to the sam < 1283619659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e location resulted in repeated strings that the compressor could match, improving compression of 80x86 binary code. < 1283619893 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, I'm out of there, now. I kept it civil. < 1283620438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283620814 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283620873 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION despairs at Coq's coinduction. < 1283620930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283621102 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283621113 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283621132 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I just want to define the nats as a coinductive stream! < 1283621228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, why? < 1283621240 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the lulz! < 1283621249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound hard. < 1283621330 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried defining stream and smap appropriately, then defining the nats as cons 0 (smap S nats), but that violates one of the restrictions. < 1283621454 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's that smap isn't a constructor of stream, but I might be wrong. < 1283621687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest defining your own types. < 1283621690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That usually works. < 1283621692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I see. < 1283621700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do it manually. < 1283621822 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283621891 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what manually? < 1283621909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write your own corecursive thing directly < 1283621912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than calling smap < 1283621966 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work..? < 1283622137 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really see how... < 1283622269 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you presumably need to use a corecursive function to map S on a stream, and then we're back at square 1. < 1283622329 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's a Super Ultra Clever way of doing it. < 1283622351 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B216CA4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283622495 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283622780 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283622852 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, name a function over the complexes right now. < 1283622873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Uh, argument. < 1283622886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition. :P < 1283622901 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "over the complexes" I mean having type C → C < 1283622958 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283623048 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably an abuse of notation, but whatever. < 1283623059 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try again? < 1283623087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition where you pack the two together. < 1283623120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Do you mean having type C -> C but *not* type R -> R or Z -> Z ? < 1283623120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, conjugate. < 1283623130 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz, like, yeah. Addition. < 1283623132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z? < 1283623138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Integers < 1283623140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1283623146 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you don't know what Z is? < 1283623151 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1283623157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283623163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do now. And I did once. < 1283623164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my fault for not Blackboard Bold'ing it. < 1283623193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what would be interesting about having... actually, no < 1283623197 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it should have interesting properties when an image is transformed with it. < 1283623202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R->R but not Z->Z would also be interesting < 1283623209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Not really. < 1283623221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, multiply by i? < 1283623229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that < 1283623236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not _that_ interesting < 1283623241 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do you know how boring that is? < 1283623242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just rotation, I think < 1283623256 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rotate by 90°" < 1283623295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: e^x? < 1283623309 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, been done. < 1283623318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, pics? < 1283623319 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if tan has. < 1283623326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: What does e^x produce for images? < 1283623334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pi^. :P < 1283623397 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, SRoMG does this a lot, and I'm wondering what else can be tried. < 1283623453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop using that incomprehensible abbreviation. < 1283623496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square Root of Minus Garfield? < 1283623497 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But typing "Square Root of Minus Garfield" goes contrary to my laziness! < 1283623513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes < 1283623513 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, part of the Mezzacottapeligo. < 1283623518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcsin(Garfield) is awesome < 1283623520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sin(Garfield) too < 1283623532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=433 < 1283623534 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1283623535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=473 < 1283623539 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what else can we do? < 1283623539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for cpressey) < 1283623547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: i^x? :PPP < 1283623577 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex exponentiation still hurts my brain. < 1283623579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::pppppppppp < 1283623599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=415 log. Awesome! < 1283623616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=400 exp) < 1283623643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, there's 1 Over Garfield. < 1283623643 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quite liked Garfield^-1 centred on Garfield's thought bubble. < 1283623646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=407 < 1283623649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING DISTURBING < 1283623693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=388 < 1283623701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS CRAZY < 1283623719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Complex little creatures, aren't they?" http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=156 < 1283623733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Cube root is beautiful. http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=380 < 1283623780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could satarize these strips with a 1 + Garfield < 1283623822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, not a word. < 1283623830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, it's already a loving parody of Garfield Minus Garfield. < 1283623851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=368 < 1283623852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAR GOD < 1283623863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=351 fffff < 1283623894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? It's more an experimental toying with Garfield. < 1283623894 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a Fourier transform of Garfield. < 1283623899 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as a sort of Garfield. < 1283623922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: But it is inspired by, at least. < 1283623924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now read through all the Mezzacotta strips < 1283623953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1283623975 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283623992 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OLD < 1283624007 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283624008 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to start on Lightning Made of Owls. < 1283624056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Link me to the FFT? < 1283624059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, FT. < 1283624073 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=43 < 1283624088 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By DMM himself. < 1283624183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1283624188 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=26 polar cöordinate transformed. < 1283624204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaeresis fail. < 1283624221 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. Indeëd. < 1283624257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaeresis fail. < 1283624283 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deliberate that time. < 1283624330 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B216CA4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283624463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oöps. < 1283624502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My right ear's working again! < 1283624668 0 :nooga!~root@86-63-110-58.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283624688 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use Y Windowing System < 1283624780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists < 1283624818 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder... why < 1283624827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. I can say "asshole" on Fark? < 1283624913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say asshole any time. < 1283624916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because X is awful < 1283624932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My idea about while loops an TCL (I don't know if you recall it; doesn't really matter) did not turn out to be interesting, < 1283624944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1283624979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the language of while programs. Add some kind of homoiconicity so that you can build programs from inside it. Enforce the rule that inside each while loop, the program must re-define the meaning of "while". < 1283624986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't say "fuck" on Fark < 1283624989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns it to "Fark" < 1283625002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't what? < 1283625007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fark is utter crap, anyway. < 1283625030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pr. don't recall my offhand remark about my silly idea < 1283625035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't remember cpressey's idea about while loops and TCL < 1283625042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah < 1283625050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCL as in Tcl/Tk? < 1283625054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there it is, if anyone wants it. < 1283625072 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. Someone was answering someone else's question about TCL here at the time. < 1283625088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think ais523 was playing with expect, that's why. < 1283625100 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-43.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283625112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I was < 1283625161 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's true < 1283625177 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if there's something that could replace X in linux < 1283625186 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess there isn't < 1283625235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run GTK+ stuff in DirectFB, that's sort of replacing X, but I don't know why anyone would. < 1283625269 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's wait for open Aqua reimplementation < 1283625339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Quartz < 1283625340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Aqua < 1283625342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you care about < 1283625362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, it's just Display Postscript < 1283625363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with PDFs < 1283625389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone is working on some X-compatible replacement minimal thing i think < 1283625392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it's any good < 1283625396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squeak and Pharo have some framebuffer thingy < 1283625402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wayland < 1283625403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think' < 1283625404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server) < 1283625425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just realized that means Macs are running a crippled monster forthoid in their display systems. < 1283625429 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shweet. < 1283625434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it's actually X-compatible < 1283625442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nothin' wrong with PDF. < 1283625448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostScript is cool, and PDF is just non-TC binary PostScript. < 1283625462 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thus, forthoid. < 1283625467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not a crippled monster :P < 1283625483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Factor a forthoid? < 1283625489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you used to be able to screenshot to PDF and windows were layers and shit. < 1283625491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also XDirectFB, which can put X windows into a DirectFB screen. (Don't know how compatible that is either.) < 1283625496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would scale (although a lot of graphics are bitmaps) < 1283625497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was cool < 1283625501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if you still can < 1283625505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It used to be the default screenshot format) < 1283625511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. non-TC <-> crippled. Monster, referring to some of the interestingness that PS layered in. < 1283625562 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I thought that's obvious? Unless you get pedantic. < 1283625590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1283625594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is a Joyoid. < 1283625596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all concatenative languages are "forthoids"? What's the point of the term "forthoid" then < 1283625599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1283625607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more of a Forthoid to begin with. < 1283625616 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, non-TC <-> crippled? < 1283625618 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1283625622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now with quotations and the like it's an imperative Joy, rather than a functional Forth. < 1283625624 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were Practical... < 1283625660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION borrows oerjan's palm frond and swats Phantom_Hoover_ -----###### < 1283625663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course non-TC <-> crippled < 1283625667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HAHAHA @ cpressey being practical < 1283625679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a music scale (4/8,5/8,6/8,7/8,8/8) < 1283625699 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so all programs are crippled, then? < 1283625701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, make a scale (3/6,4/6,5/6,6/6) < 1283625714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If cpressey invented Befunge-93 today, it wouldn't have a defined ASCII representation, it would be based on Minkowski space, it would have only 7 instructions, and the playfield would be 80 x infinity for some mathematical reason. < 1283625725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, the defined ASCII representation would be crazy and probably 1D. < 1283625735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's what the little copy of cpressey in my head would do. < 1283625784 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? I misconceived, then. < 1283625784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be... close. Ish. < 1283625800 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll never know. < 1283625819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And it would only be arguably computable. :P < 1283625858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its semantics would certainly not depend so unspeakably on those of C, that's for sure. < 1283625882 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoin < 1283625890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Should I even ask what "Practical" with a capital P means to you? < 1283625906 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz that's, uh, a bit creepy to see. < 1283625928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like identifying oneself as a Bright, or something. < 1283625964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1283626004 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i don't come back after reboot that means i borked my partition table < 1283626009 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283626010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ByteByteJump is {**(pc+1) = **pc; pc = *(pc+2)}. Is {**(pc+1) = **pc; pc = **pc} TC? < 1283626032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brbuibmpt" < 1283626048 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1283626142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: uhhhhhhh < 1283626184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes? < 1283626190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc is program counter, of course. < 1283626191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think it is < 1283626205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: See, if I want to compete with BytePusher, I have to come up with my own, totally more awesome OISC. < 1283626206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe not < 1283626213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that has only two operands, making it INSTANTLY SUPERIOR. < 1283626248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is, because I think you can encode SMETANA in it, but my brain isn't really working < 1283626294 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I think it's not < 1283626305 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shows you how good I am at thi < 1283626308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this. < 1283626340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AR CH Æ OL OG Y < 1283626349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh btw, that P != NP proof was debunked, wasn't it? < 1283626356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it? < 1283626365 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heerd rumours, is all. < 1283626372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An August 2010 claim by Vinay Deolalikar, a researcher at HP Labs, received heavy Internet and press attention after being initially described as "seem[ing] to be a relatively serious attempt" by two leading specialists. The proof has been reviewed publicly by academics,[22] and it was found to contain irreparable conceptual-level errors as well as a number of concrete errors and flaws.[23] < 1283626373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283626397 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irreparable conceptual errors! < 1283626536 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can nicely define division using coinductive nats in Coq. < 1283626549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think {**pc = **(pc+1); pc = **(pc+1)} is a better instruction. < 1283626552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION codes up a VM to play with it < 1283626654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, an infinite loop is... < 1283626662 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that infinity is S infinity, and hence div n 0 = infinity. < 1283626681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X: DO (X+1) X < 1283626684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1283626689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1283626739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64K of RAM should be enough for everyone < 1283626743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everyone. < 1283626789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It depend what you do < 1283626803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a one instruction computer, it might not be enough for large programs < 1283626873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, ByteByteJump has a major flaw. < 1283626882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program counter is not exposed in memory. < 1283626907 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so jumps are impossible/ < 1283626912 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1283626938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is that a flaw? I programmed a BytePusher program, with conditional jumps < 1283626975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has no calculation built-in, you have to use tables, and that makes my "munching squares" program size 3K (plus one byte). < 1283627001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is {*pc = m[*pc] = m[*pc + 1]} valid C? < 1283627005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That assignment to *pc makes me think not. < 1283627019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, although not valid portable C < 1283627025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meaning? < 1283627033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's conforming C because I know of at least one C compiler that accepts it, given an appopriate definition for PC < 1283627039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on which an appropriate definition is actually possible < 1283627046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1283627046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's UB < 1283627056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question, is, is it portable and properly defined? < 1283627056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a program can contain UB and be conforming < 1283627061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is a valid C code, though < 1283627063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1283627076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conforming C" means "accepted by at least one C compiler", according to the standard < 1283627082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any proper C compiler should compile it (as long as you put the semicolon in where it belongs) < 1283627082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1283627092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just choose an arbitrary compiler that happens to define the particular UB you're using < 1283627095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure about that? I thought it meant following standard < 1283627099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"strictly conforming" is what it needs to be accepted by all < 1283627101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283627116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if all happens to implement that UB the same way? < 1283627123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems unlikely < 1283627135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but would it be strictly conforming then? < 1283627139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283627146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283627166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's defined as "conforming + no UB, unspecified behaviour never matters, implementation-defined behaviour never matters" < 1283627212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm it could still end up strange if _all_ implementations misimplements a given part < 1283627223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means there is no compiler accepting the program < 1283627223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are no implementatiosn < 1283627227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementations < 1283627231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1283627248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you might be interesting to know that the C standard doesn't define behaviour of the programs output by a compiler < 1283627252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no program could ever be conforming < 1283627255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fread(x, N, ...) will always read N if the stream has at least N bytes in it, right? < 1283627257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler can just not produce an executable and still be strictly conforming < 1283627258 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ha < 1283627275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe... < 1283627290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, it can return a lower value if there will eventually be N bytes in the stream but they can't be retrieved immediately for some reason < 1283627316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is a file < 1283627317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so meh < 1283627330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most common reason by far is network timeouts (say NFS), but there are others < 1283627345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a regular, local file? < 1283627348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a quick hack, so < 1283627361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a quick hack, as long as your OS isn't doing some sort of crazy buffering you'll befine < 1283627363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be fine < 1283627376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that depend on mount options for the nfs fs in question < 1283627391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I reimplemented awk in about 10 lines for a quick hack this mornign < 1283627409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it wouldn't work for general awk files, but it's good enough for processing autoconf output on a system that doesn't have awk < 1283627415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm pretty sure (due to having used them) that there are mount options for nfs that makes it timeout instead of stall forever < 1283627439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I tend to think in terms of "x can do that" rather than "x does do that" < 1283627464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138253.txt?key=4fz7yhgu7qu0jczaxsla ;; that's the kind of instruction loop I like. < 1283627466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1283627469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for C programming, you know "under circumstances x, y can go wrong" and don't care about knowing the exact details of x < 1283627526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things can go strange for sshfs (fuse based) too. If a file is open it won't time out and unmount if network is lost. Sometimes. < 1283627565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138253.txt?key=4fz7yhgu7qu0jczaxsla < 1283627566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138256.txt < 1283627574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second of these is likely to be more efficient, right? < 1283627604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: reading from a network socket, if read's argument is larger than the packet size then it nearly always returns one packet rather than the amount you specified < 1283627607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you have read returning low then < 1283627624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1283627643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also EOF < 1283627666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't read EOF from an unclosed network socket, unless there's an error < 1283627680 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, GAS‽ I thought you had taste! < 1283627684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously, I meant for streams and standard input < 1283627701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in the standard input case you could get a "fake" EOF so to speak, from ctrl-d < 1283627703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't write it, dude, gcc and clang did. < 1283627728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, profile them < 1283627733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, best way to find out < 1283627811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "mov %edx, %edx" seems to do nothing < 1283627827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that sort of thing is sometimes useful to set flags, but it doesn't seem to actually look at the flags afterwards < 1283627856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the m() refers to a flag; I don't understand the syntax < 1283627906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov doesn't set flags anyway. < 1283627911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I presume m is a variable from elsewhere < 1283627912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283627916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with -Os it omits that instruction < 1283627917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only way that makes sense < 1283627925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait no < 1283627927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138256.txt < 1283627929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is obviously better, I think < 1283627933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, am I muddling x86 with other asms? < 1283627943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 6502, it sets the zero flag, although not the others < 1283627946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m is a variable from elsewhere < 1283627965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138256.txt in clang's output it is just: < 1283627971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vm: < 1283627974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word m[ram_words]; < 1283627993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283627998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word m[ram_words] = {load_addr}; < 1283628001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would this initialise the rest to 0? < 1283628017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that looks like llvm asm < 1283628028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does? < 1283628034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the word stuff < 1283628041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just my #define for int32_t < 1283628046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: your interrobangs annoy me so much I just set my IRC client to replace interrobangs with normal question marks < 1283628047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :load_addr is 1 < 1283628049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pastie.org/1138256.txt in clang's output it is just: < 1283628049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vm: < 1283628049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : word m[ram_words]; < 1283628051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh? < 1283628060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............ < 1283628077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well it doesn't make sense < 1283628085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not talking to you < 1283628093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesn't make sense though < 1283628109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm actually it is m: < 1283628122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do the interrobangs annoy you? < 1283628139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool it segfaults < 1283628141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's very rarely used correctly < 1283628157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is used to replace !? and/or ?! afaik? < 1283628158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't then, really, for instance < 1283628161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the usual thing to do is to set flags on arithmetics, not movs, but I really haven't made a survey on this. (My handy single-page messy 6502 instruction chart says LDA/LDX/LDY set both N and Z.) < 1283628167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and I dislike the punctuation generally < 1283628192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, he could just switch to use !? or !? then. Are you going to filter that as well? < 1283628196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclamations are generally annoying < 1283628212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if someone came in here and ended all their sentences with !, we'd get annoyed quickly < 1283628213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No they're not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1283628219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interrobang is just another sort of exclamation < 1283628220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would we! I don't think we would! < 1283628225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we would like it! < 1283628243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's getting on my nerves already... < 1283628256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people! < 1283628259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'll stop now. < 1283628273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. But there are reasons to use it. Like: "wow, some quick calculation shows that that the probability for that coincidence is 1 of 10^23!" or similar < 1283628276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1283628292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that implies 10 to the 23 factorial to me < 1283628423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, the VM uses 100% of a CPU for its infinite loop. < 1283628586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, how can it segfault? < 1283628591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (;;) { < 1283628592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1]; < 1283628592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m[0] = x; < 1283628592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1283628595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all unsigned. < 1283628599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I said a 16-bit machine. Heh. < 1283628613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And coded my thing wrong. < 1283628702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It no worky. < 1283628737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, cpressey, you implement this machine. < 1283628850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tell me why chr(x&256) + chr(x>>8) doesn't work. < 1283628872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, < 1283628874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oops. < 1283628877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& 255 it should be! < 1283628902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this depends on endianness. < 1283628903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eurgh! < 1283628916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: RELIEVE THE PAIN < 1283628921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: STOP USING C < 1283628927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts alise to sleep < 1283628928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, was away, just came back. < 1283628930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: BUT IT'S A LOW-LEVEL VM MACHINE THING < 1283628941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Forth for low-level stuff! < 1283628971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell first. THEN C. That's my opinion, anyway, not that I always follow it. < 1283629034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Okay. Do it in Haskell then. < 1283629153 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could always do it with liberal use of monads. < 1283629168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at his smallness < 1283629173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to my tallness < 1283629177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My porcelain doll-ness < 1283629185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My port-in-a-squall-ness < 1283629188 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< ais523> I mean, I reimplemented awk in about 10 lines for a quick hack this mornign < 1283629197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In what language? C?? < 1283629200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shellscript < 1283629207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I cheated and used a2p < 1283629217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Kids-in-the-Hall-ness / My Pink-Floyd's-"The-Wall"-ness / My just all in all-ness < 1283629221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other lines were working around bugs in a2p < 1283629224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wonderful me-ness < 1283629226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parsing arguments < 1283629228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hammer the pe--- < 1283629233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ople can tell < 1283629250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about spamminess < 1283629336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, that implies 10 to the 23 factorial to me <-- hm? < 1283629346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 10^23! < 1283629368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "1 out of 10^23" means "pretty unlikely" to me in that context < 1283629398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal demonstrates new heights of reading comprehension. < 1283629403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could get a Ph.D. in it at this rate. < 1283629439 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You are forgiven. But only if you are drunk. < 1283629447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeep < 1283629449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1283629452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tired though < 1283629467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll let "tired" go. THIS time. < 1283629507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283629522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh right, now I get what he meant < 1283629526 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Haskell is a pain < 1283629534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my point was "!" is useful in some cases < 1283629536 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for something as simple and array-y as this) < 1283629549 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to use Python. < 1283629552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's useful if you want to speak about fractionals. < 1283629552 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops himself. < 1283629557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make an esolang that uses interrobang in it's syntax... < 1283629557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283629582 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283629595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember to make it do some sort of combination of ? and !. < 1283629607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes < 1283629617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't make it isomorphic (if that's the term) to BF < 1283629639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or maybe it should be like intercals over-strike stuff < 1283629643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1283629645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void vm() < 1283629645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1283629645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : word x; < 1283629645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (;;) { < 1283629646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1]; < 1283629648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m[0] = x; < 1283629650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1283629652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1283629654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit values, full 16-bit memory < 1283629656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as in either the unicode code point, or !? are allowed < 1283629660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loads a raw memory image < 1283629663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two bytes to the value) < 1283629667 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like it does for ." < 1283629670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial m[0] is assigned by the memory file < 1283629693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that takes a bunch of integers separated by whitespace and spits out a \0-padded memory image plus the first value being "1" to point to the first number entered would be cool too < 1283629699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to pave the way for an assembler) < 1283629703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROCEED, SLAVE < 1283629731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ITRALCEN or whatever it was called was going to use interrobang for its metaevaluation stuff. < 1283629738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble INTERCAL < 1283629738 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITRALCEN < 1283629742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITRALCEN. < 1283629750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1283629756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sounds cool < 1283629759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I never actually ended up doing it. < 1283629763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was < 1283629768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all the INTERCAL language was implemented using it < 1283629770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically < 1283629771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, right, it was you who made the idea up < 1283629776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask < 1283629786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was going to accept ?! too < 1283629788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://pastie.org/1138303 < 1283629788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same way < 1283629794 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw < 1283629796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh < 1283629802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well /that/ bit is the easy part. < 1283629831 0 :nooga!~root@86-63-110-58.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283629832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, you asked. < 1283629838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283629843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why lua? < 1283629843 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm having wild problems with restoring ext3 partition < 1283629854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Haskell lost. Then Python lost. < 1283629859 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smacks forehead < 1283629867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoulda done it in Falcon or R! < 1283629869 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6CFB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283629871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and the problem you are trying to solve is? < 1283629885 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua is nice, besides the syntax < 1283629889 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, DO IT IN FALCON < 1283629893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is doing a great imitation of ignoring me while proving he isn't < 1283629898 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like pascalified javascript < 1283629952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Damn, I would have to look up how they do arrays. < 1283629964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um? am I ignoring you? < 1283629976 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked Lua because I knew I could just start using m as if it was an array, and it would be. < 1283630007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but you asked what cpressey was doing just after I FORCED him to do it. (Well, not exactly that.) < 1283630050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was wondering what the goal of the program was. That function didn't look like it was a complete program to me < 1283630074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called an esolang. < 1283630077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's alise's putative successor to ByteByteJump. < 1283630080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definedness of "m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1];" looks unclear, but perhaps this was already spoken about (I'm not really following the discussion here). < 1283630085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although his program is, uh, incomplete. < 1283630091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh, surely /that/'s ok? < 1283630093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1283630100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If m[0] == 0, especially. < 1283630100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why would it not be? < 1283630110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. No input or output of any kind. Pretty useless as it is. Which is why I asked < 1283630115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but VM I guess then < 1283630127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a reference implementation. < 1283630132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283630145 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I coded the /interesting/ part of the semantics. < 1283630146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looks OISCy? < 1283630149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically trying to usurp BytePusher in awesomeness. < 1283630151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1283630183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A B means "*A = *B; jump to address B" < 1283630264 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283630272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is there any IO or such (possibly by using memory mapped IO registers or similar)? < 1283630297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In a computer, yes. In the architecture, no. < 1283630305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and memory location 0 is the program counter, of course. < 1283630320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283630322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jumping to 0 is *quite* fun, in the "HOW DOES THIS WORK" sense. < 1283630328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and this is not a computerish implementation? < 1283630331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first operand of your first instruction becomes a second one. < 1283630335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's just the basis for one. < 1283630352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual computer will be like BytePusher but more awesome. A proper sound chip rather than just raw PCM. < 1283630359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synthesiser, that is. < 1283630366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All done memory-mapped, naturally. < 1283630371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does the architecture reserve some specific memory addresses for such usage? To prevent a situation where different implementations put them in completely different areas < 1283630386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the world of esoputers. < 1283630394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. ARM and Z80 don't tell you what the computer should look like either. < 1283630403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're ISAs; the rest is up to the computer architecture. < 1283630423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. Are you going to define such an architecture as well? < 1283630438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not even sure about the "m[m[0]] = x;" part. There's no additional sequence points, and if m[0] == 0, you have a write to m[0], and a read from m[0], and you're only allowed to read the previous value "only to determine the value to be stored", which doesn't seem to be the case here. I don't think there's any rule that'd let you apply any "but m[0] *must* be read before the m[m[0]] write can know where it's writing to"; but there's a horribly long th < 1283630439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read about these and related points in comp.lang.c. < 1283630443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The actual computer will be like BytePusher but more awesome. A proper sound chip rather than just raw PCM. < 1283630443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Synthesiser, that is. < 1283630443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : All done memory-mapped, naturally. < 1283630444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Adding the "= m[m[0]+1]" bit makes it even less clear, though.) < 1283630460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Blargh. < 1283630477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a big deal, I can fix it. < 1283630487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely want an in-memory PC though. < 1283630489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shit is FUN. < 1283630507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0 X" is an unconditional jump to X. :-) < 1283630521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since *X gets put in the program counter, but then it gets set to X < 1283630533 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in practise it seems tricky to be able to resolve the location of m[m[0]] before reading m[0] < 1283630552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, well, that's you using logic again. < 1283630568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but with the = m[m[0]+1] it is harder to know < 1283630609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: m[m[0]] is just **m. < 1283630612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could have memory doing strange things like erasing m[m[0]] while reading m[m[0]+1]. For some sort of arcane memory < 1283630613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm pretty sure is valid, you know. < 1283630615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no it's not. < 1283630619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *(m + *m). < 1283630622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is more iffy. < 1283630624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash? Though I doubt anyone uses that for main memory < 1283630631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if m is in 0? :-) < 1283630640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg flash for core. < 1283630652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yeah, presumably NOR then < 1283630653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be... sluggish < 1283630654 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283630663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, would be worse if NAND < 1283630667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And take a lot of power, relatively speaking < 1283630673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I can't see how NAND could even work for it < 1283630679 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6CFB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283630763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder what type of microprocessor is used in a normal harddrive... < 1283630807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would Marilyn vos Savant be a good fit for this channel? < 1283630810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically? < 1283630837 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283630870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's annoying < 1283630880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think my desktop has at least 5 processor cores, considering CPU, GPU, two harddrives, one dvd and one sound card. GPU probably consists of more than one in reality < 1283630901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of her surname :) < 1283630908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know the sound card has a DSP, it's a SB Live 5.1 with that EMU10k DSP thingy) < 1283630951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... are you *sure* you're not drunk? < 1283630968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can she even program? < 1283630976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless someone drugged me with alcohol... < 1283630980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has she done anything other than popularising Monty Hall and other simple problems and, at one point, having a very high IQ? < 1283630981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A few months after the announcement by Andrew Wiles that he had proved Fermat's Last Theorem, vos Savant published her book The World's Most Famous Math Problem in October 1993.[15] The book surveys the history of Fermat's last theorem as well as other mathematical mysteries. Controversy came from the book's criticism of Wiles' proof; vos Savant was accused of misunderstanding mathematical induction, proof by contradiction, < 1283631022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, was that the incorrect announcement, or the correct one? < 1283631029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what about other drugs than alcohol then? < 1283631035 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Her assertion that Wiles' proof should be rejected for its use of non-Euclidean geometry was especially contested." < 1283631038 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad fit. < 1283631047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, other drugs wouldn't make me drunk < 1283631053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hahaahahaha < 1283631065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, this is definitely alcohol or nothing < 1283631077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although at this level Sgeo should be having trouble typing with accuracy < 1283631086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1993 would be the original < 1283631089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but clearly her criticism is bullshit < 1283631095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1283631113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when a girl IMed me with "I < 1283631119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm aseunk" < 1283631130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1283631131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What if Marilyn von Savant is actually ALL OF US... man... < 1283631140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[universe changes] < 1283631147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHY ARE THE WALLS BREATHING I BLAME WHOEVER DEVELOPS ACTIVEWORLDS < 1283631157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[universe changes] < 1283631158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283631220 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh < 1283631225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stage 101 is fun < 1283631230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stop cheating < 1283631234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah those are different drugs < 1283631244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: CONGRATULATIONS YOU GOT THE JOKE < 1283631247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you've been dot-act-2-ing again? < 1283631250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it cheating if the code is given in the instructions? < 1283631262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what instructions? < 1283631264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose not < 1283631267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say? < 1283631276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1283631284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Google Translate < 1283631285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on < 1283631300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The password "086-754" to enter, can play a bonus stage." < 1283631310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1283631313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete 100 to get it < 1283631314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1283631318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1283631329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 101-108 for a reason! :| < 1283631332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but for all I know there could be some drug other than alcohol that gives similar symptoms. I mean, the phase-space of possible drugs is hardly small enough to be completely explored. < 1283631341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I can't recall how many stages I cleared; just that it was >90, <100. < 1283631344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when I type in the code, I don't see 1-100 in the list < 1283631353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 101-108 < 1283631358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: afaik alcohol is fairly unique in its effects < 1283631364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but they come after 100, obviously < 1283631368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you do 55? < 1283631373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot figure it out. < 1283631411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it proven that no future drug could give similar effects? Maybe some mad scientist gave Sgeo a sample of a new drug to test it out on him! < 1283631424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Do you have that 1-100 code somewhere? I don't think I can manage to do 1-54 to see 55 for you. < 1283631436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://jayisgames.com/archives/2007/04/dot_action_2.php#walkthrough < 1283631439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has codes for every level < 1283631452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I dug it out of the swf myself back then. :p < 1283631455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcohol is chemically simpler than most drugs. From what I understand, it does what it does because your brain is busy "digesting" it. < 1283631492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to, say, psychoactives which bind to various neural receptors. < 1283631541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm okay < 1283631555 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, fwiw, I think it would be hard to come up with an "alcohol-alike" drug < 1283631574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IIRC, you just need to hit the middle one of the three green blocks on the left, and keep pressing right; it'll keep flipping around, but it'll bounce from the above/below greens so that you can catch the blue. < 1283631576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283631595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aha! < 1283631612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 is really, really fun < 1283631638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, btw I remember a funny video showing the effects of various drugs and driving. (not using actual drugs of course) < 1283631642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might take a few tries to work out right, it's not exactly a very straight-forward thing. < 1283631644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue where it was I saw it < 1283631650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the only bonus level that I solved, iirc < 1283631662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know which one you're talking about. < 1283631665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively amusing. < 1283631675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc lsd+driving was hilarious < 1283631682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I think the video was in German? < 1283631685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283631743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which is the middle one? < 1283631768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, on the left < 1283631826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ I did 105 < 1283631879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cpressey: found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHDeMMzkHrI < 1283631884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did 55 woot < 1283631901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :107 is just a race against the clock < 1283631933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More specifically, ethanol acts in the central nervous system by binding to the GABA-A receptor, increasing the effects of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA (i.e. it is a positive allosteric modulator)[68]." < 1283631990 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsd+driving is suicide < 1283632008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :108 is a tricky race against thge clock < 1283632028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, most likely every one of those is suicide < 1283632036 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1283632043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to varying degree < 1283632051 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marijuana is harmless i think < 1283632057 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to driving < 1283632067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannabis probably has the least effect < 1283632071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it has the least effect of everything < 1283632073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I don't think it was in the video though? Unless it's German name is very different < 1283632086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the video isn't exactly true to real life... < 1283632092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well of course < 1283632096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the primary effect of LSD is seeing a creepy bunny. < 1283632097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was supposed to be funny < 1283632101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. < 1283632128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on lsd you would probably love the car you're driving and feel strong emmotional connection to the trees standing by the road < 1283632138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with "those" in " nooga, most likely every one of those is suicide" I was referring to those in the video though < 1283632139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahaha@56 < 1283632142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Haschisch" is second one in the video. < 1283632159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: at a regular dose isn't it a bit arguable whether you'd recognise them as trees or not? < 1283632165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that same as marijuana ? < 1283632176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't speak German < 1283632178 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then comes the pink-blue, glowing squirrelephant that pursues you < 1283632191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the same as en:hashish, which is same stuff in a bit different form. < 1283632197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283632203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stage 101 < 1283632204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now < 1283632207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't say I'm a drug expert < 1283632229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unlike you i wish to play the game in order from start to finish < 1283632253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think 101 is after the finish < 1283632266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 typically comes after 100. < 1283632284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's technically speaking in a different list. < 1283632334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a changelog between 1.01 and 1.10, though. < 1283632387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1283632392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it changed? < 1283632395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot action 2 1.10 :D < 1283632412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2008-11-23 22:56:25] That http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ link is to version 1.01; the original you pasted -- http://dagobah.biz/flash/dotact2.swf -- is 1.10. < 1283632424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were two versions at least then. < 1283632437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1283632439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1283632443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been playing 1.01. < 1283632501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, we had a bit of a competition going on with oklopol. < 1283632570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up at level 93, oklopol went on at least up to 97. < 1283632619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least 98, it seems.) < 1283632840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did 57 with 1 TIME left. Fuck yeah. < 1283632847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did we ever figure out how long a TIME was? < 1283632854 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283632882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure; I remember color-picking and figuring out the formula for the background RGB color. < 1283632925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are many. < 1283632955 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283632964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a quick manual check, TIME seems to be decremented approximately at a rate of 4 units/second. < 1283632971 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1283633092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually died on 101 this time < 1283633245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try 101-108? < 1283633364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 101 101 101 101 101 101 101 < 1283633462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on stage 58, do you know how to avoid dying on the very last bit? < 1283633465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you space you die < 1283633470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wait you fall and die < 1283633882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did 58 < 1283633948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm too late, then. < 1283633983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've tried the 101-108 levels back then, too. < 1283634134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, someone killed my ghost < 1283634207 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → reboot < 1283634353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I most hate in the acted-on dots part twain is the time-limited levels. (Okay, all of them are time-limited theoretically speaking, but those where the main challenge comes from the time limit. I just tried 60 for a lark, and ran out of time on the last "terrace" there, even though I didn't do any obvious time-wasting on the way there. < 1283634354 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283634357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283634475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283634481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 59 is evil < 1283634483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283634483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the time < 1283634532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dot Action 2 is even more than nintendo hard :) < 1283634597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not IWTBTG levels < 1283634625 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comjex < 1283634634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says you, who hasn't even played all 100 levels yet. < 1283634648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have. < 1283634651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ages ago. < 1283634653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not in order. < 1283634661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you mean Sgeo? < 1283634672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is who I meant. < 1283634707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, I think I hate just about everything about the UI of video game emulators these days. < 1283634715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox? < 1283634732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ROM management tools. < 1283634734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all suck. < 1283634740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in their treatment of files. < 1283634764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WTFs at a non-programmer using the word "callbacks" < 1283634795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Play Dot Action 2. No other games are necessary. < 1283634824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at stage 35 < 1283634846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy, just the damn time limit < 1283634888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did 59 < 1283634890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1283634900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ha, you are so pitiful! < 1283634903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the common ROM handling format: < 1283634927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.ext. A dump of the actual contents of the ROM chip. < 1283634928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHAT THE FUCK AT 60 < 1283634929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else. < 1283634961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metadata? Bah. Any hints about what hardware is needed to run it? Baaaah. Unreliable heuristics instead! < 1283634967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How do you do it??? < 1283635005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last bit is mostly an issue for systems such as the NES and SNES where the cartridge could actually have addon hardware hooked into the system. < 1283635041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NES with its memory mappers, the SNES with its memory mappers and the ability to have some other processor run on the main bus in tandem with the main processor) < 1283635104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Sgeo> alise, someone killed my ghost < 1283635107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283635112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe *I'm* drunk. < 1283635130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NetHack < 1283635134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1283635135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HOW DO YOU DO 60 < 1283635148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl < 1283635150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283635162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful. < 1283635171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what? I should write frontends to a bunch of (best available free) emulators. Just to get it not awful. < 1283635178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some sort of ROM management tool. < 1283635178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you wanna watch on FooTV? < 1283635187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaand define a nice metadata format. < 1283635204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i hate crawl < 1283635205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: XML! < 1283635211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1283635231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe. < 1283635242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1283635262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried 60, and like I said, couldn't quite make it on time. But I'm bad at swimming upwards. Can't recall if there was any tricks from the previous playthrough. < 1283635267 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283635285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: ROM patching is absolutely completely and utterly bonkers. < 1283635300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you downloaded it recently! < 1283635303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And played with it! < 1283635306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1283635307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And loved it! < 1283635307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucked. < 1283635312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I didn't. < 1283635323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't love pitting monsters against eachother? ;) < 1283635337 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283635337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fun, and why did you say ";)" < 1283635341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wasn't playing crawl < 1283635342 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283635349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd be happy if people just stopped calling things that clearly came on a floppy, "ROMs". < 1283635365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hah. < 1283635371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely diferent problem, of course. < 1283635377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HOW DO YU DO 60 RTJHO < 1283635386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 done < 1283635388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also. I would *love* to punch whoever is responsible for "plugins" on emulators for more recent systems. < 1283635393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DONT FUCKING WORK. < 1283635409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Download your C64 ROMs here! (No, not the rom files vice/any-other-emulator needs.) < 1283635538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm actually having trouble thinking of levels more demented than DA2's, which is a problem, as I'd quite like to create DSDE. < 1283635552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283635555 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283635556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1283635560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dot Super Death Edition.) < 1283635587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby employ pikhq to come up with a dodgy half-phonetic-English-kana, one-or-two-kanji-words version of that title. < 1283635605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dottu SUPER DEATH: edition! < 1283635611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dottu edition: SUPER DEATH! < 1283635629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is 37 a race against the clock? < 1283635631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell yet < 1283635644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1283635719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sooo.... 点新死エディション? < 1283635752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Explore new death point" < 1283635755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat XD < 1283635804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. < 1283635805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("ten shin shi edishon" in Hepburn, "ten sin si etìīsiȳon" in craziness) < 1283635830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does it translate literally as? < 1283635837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, :D Edishon < 1283635841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Dot new death edition. < 1283635850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not super. < 1283635874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :新, "new", was commonly used in the names of games where "Super" was in the US. < 1283635879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rest of the world. < 1283635897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"New Mario Brothers"? < 1283635901 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disillusioned < 1283635912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No, think about games on the SNES. < 1283635915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a New Super Mario Brothers. < 1283635922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is it New New Mario Brothers in Japanese? < 1283635930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it was New Super Mario Brothers. < 1283635937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, dot? Not dottu? :-( < 1283635940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RACIST. < 1283635965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Dottu" would more normally be romanised as "dottsu". < 1283636003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can the Japanese pronounce dot without tu after it?! < 1283636005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unpossible! < 1283636029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They can't. < 1283636042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they can do "dotto". < 1283636053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how it would end up in bastardised English. < 1283636055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. <-- uh... What other characters do you think look dangerous? So we can have something to compare with < 1283636066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So how come you detranslated it as "dot"? :'( < 1283636067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Would you like it to just be bastardised English? < 1283636069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's racism. < 1283636074 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@108.97.102.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283636081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("ten shin shi edishon" in Hepburn, "ten sin si etìīsiȳon" in craziness) ;; Wait, I see no japanised "dot" here. < 1283636085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanaised, rather. < 1283636089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Ten". < 1283636093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat. < 1283636103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Japanese for dot. < 1283636113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but what is it in ludicrous English kana? :P < 1283636118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドット・スーパ・デース・エディション < 1283636125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All ... of that? < 1283636135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dotto suupa deesu edishon". < 1283636218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドット is dotto? < 1283636222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283636224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "tò'to sūhå tềsu etèīsiȳon". < 1283636232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドット新死エディション < 1283636240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283636243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then this is "dotto new death edishon"? < 1283636246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tò'to sûhå tềsu etèīsiȳon". < 1283636248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1283636251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet < 1283636256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My game's new title < 1283636268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that one of the numbers there? < 1283636272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digits, that is. < 1283636277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, your "discussion" (or the "dotto" part, anyway) made the Tenshi ni Narumon opening theme start to play in my head. "Thanks." < 1283636298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ? < 1283636309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :エ < 1283636313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had I not died on the jump, I would only have had 76 time to do that maze < 1283636316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time may be a factor < 1283636328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1283636332 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283636370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :一二三四五六七八九十 There's the numbers 1 through ten. < 1283636390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Just looked similar, then. < 1283636399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, it's uppercase Xi. :P < 1283636401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's zero? < 1283636402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iti ni san yon kò roku siti hati kiȳû sìȳû) < 1283636425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 零 < 1283636447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1283636472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not normally used. < 1283636476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So is "ドット新死エディション" actually comprehensible to your average Japanese-speaker? < 1283636479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what? They just ignore zero? < 1283636481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1283636483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese mathematics fuck yeah. < 1283636487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And no, they don't ignore zero. < 1283636491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even "edishon"? < 1283636495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use Arabic numerals. < 1283636497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. < 1283636539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the kanji for the numbers is a bit like spelling it out in English. < 1283636554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finishes watching Turkish Star Wars < 1283636592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Japanese has a lot of bastardised English in it. < 1283636852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why did you watch that at all? < 1283636874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because it is hilarious. < 1283636879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how so? < 1283636880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283636884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. <-- uh... What other characters do you think look dangerous? So we can have something to compare with < 1283636885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! does < 1283636894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for the lava/electric fence (TOTALLY LAVA) < 1283636896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dot action 2 < 1283636900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah hm < 1283636913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and ! is in use? Or not wide enough? < 1283636918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, it just is. < 1283636920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about ☠ < 1283636923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a full block < 1283636926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ! doesn't really look right < 1283636933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, i think i'd prefer to keep it ascii :) < 1283636934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The training montage is the funniest ever. < 1283636939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ⚠ < 1283636945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's the first one meant to be? < 1283636947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, aren't really many choices in ASCII < 1283636952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: skull and crossbones < 1283636961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for me. < 1283636962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... X does look somewhat dangerous. # doesn't. < 1283636967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of any other char < 1283636967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1283636973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: # is the walls < 1283636975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is typical for walls, on ASCII maps < 1283636977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X looks a bit like walls, though... < 1283636981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice skull btw < 1283636982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a dagger with the end curled around. < 1283636983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1283636986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1283636987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ works for liquids, like lava < 1283637000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't look very dangerous < 1283637006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use ^ < 1283637011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't # corridor in nethack? < 1283637016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spiky, and is used for traps in roguelikes < 1283637018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1283637025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for lots of things, including corridors < 1283637040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's really an electric fence < 1283637041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1283637044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it keeps its shape and can stand alone) < 1283637054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you often get e.g. T shapes, meaning ^ would look a bit strange < 1283637059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used - for fences before < 1283637065 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-107-174.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283637068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would look even stranger for a T shape < 1283637074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about |-|-|-|-|-| ? Fence posts < 1283637075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about % < 1283637078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% looks kind of nasty, to me. < 1283637083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, one character < 1283637086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps % < 1283637088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm okay < 1283637091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a bit ambiguous < 1283637099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out ones for green (flips the level upside down) < 1283637103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and red (gives you fence protection) < 1283637107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% would be good for green < 1283637108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was just about to say that % looks editable! < 1283637113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like flipping, somehow < 1283637117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *edible < 1283637121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err yeah < 1283637136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, should be "eatable" really < 1283637148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically I mean < 1283637161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what evil-protection should be < 1283637169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$? it is somewhat valuable, I guess, but that seems strange. < 1283637175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps @ < 1283637180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283637215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about ! like nethack potion < 1283637229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special effect for some time and such < 1283637233 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be useful? If the OS could send a signal to a process meaning "Please reduce your memory consumption". < 1283637252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they're full block-width too < 1283637258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. they all take up as much space as a # < 1283637262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different colours < 1283637268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so monospace font? < 1283637276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and @ should be the player I think < 1283637286 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1283637286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know I'm nethack influenced here < 1283637296 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1283637306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, I thought that, but I realised that it can't be < 1283637311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1283637312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? < 1283637318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can start in mid-air or on the ground < 1283637320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1283637321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1283637322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1283637325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this standing on the ground < 1283637327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283637329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or falling from the top of that cell on to the ground? < 1283637333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is obvious? but < 1283637334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1283637335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1283637335 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Vorpal> alise, so monospace font? < 1283637341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you want to be falling on to the X at the start < 1283637345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on it < 1283637349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I wish it were not! < 1283637350 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what was # and X? < 1283637353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I'll have to specify it some other way < 1283637359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they both look pretty solid < 1283637362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: # is wall/ground/floor/whatever, X is evil electric fence < 1283637366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid, sure, but deadly < 1283637377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's hollow if you have ZET < 1283637384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you get from red blocks for a certain amount of time < 1283637392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283637405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, starting on top of one at the beginning of a level sounds very evil < 1283637438 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How big is a Dot Action playfield, in grid cells? < 1283637442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's normal < 1283637447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, you start falling on one < 1283637447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few < 1283637454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the one with 1 time < 1283637457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just move right or whatever < 1283637458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 0 time, i forget < 1283637463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 time = 1/4 second < 1283637468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 time = game ends as soon as it starts < 1283637474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh right, unrealistic physics for in-air movement < 1283637477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in the list, the time is listed < 1283637483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most platformers have that < 1283637488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to press jump and right, if you hit off the ceiling you fall quicker) < 1283637492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(making you fall on to the block in time) < 1283637495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Pretty big < 1283637498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Bigger than 80x24 < 1283637551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's no TV Tropes drinking game for Turkish Star Wars. < 1283637553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway you said it was unclear if you stand on ground or are falling from top of tile? < 1283637558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be pretty simple. < 1283637565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1283637566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does that mean the player is smaller than a tile? < 1283637573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly one tile big < 1283637576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he can be on half a tile < 1283637585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and half another? < 1283637591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283637592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Take a sip every time the Indiana Jones theme plays or the hero attacks someone by bouncing on a trampoline." < 1283637593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could put it one tile up and say it's always on the ground < 1283637596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the same effect, probably < 1283637596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1283637601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there's another square there < 1283637601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thus everything is in fact 2x2 tiles big? < 1283637619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from movement < 1283637625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, time is most certainly a factor in 37 < 1283637627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1283637632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he can be on 1/whateverth of a tile too < 1283637637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only if you suck < 1283637642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (however pixels high he is) < 1283637647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: continuous movement < 1283637647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hard to translate to ascii that < 1283637661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he can only start in one tile, i think < 1283637662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1283637672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still rather bad < 1283637676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1283637687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's Turkish Star Trek! < 1283637691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7185067049150068960 < 1283637703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1283637714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have TRAMPOLINING < 1283637716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funky opening music. < 1283637719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it has Mr. Spak < 1283637721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with unicode there is probably some symbol that exists for several different "placements" in a char. But since you wanted ASCII only... < 1283637728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Overview: This Turkish version of Star Trek is a complete rip off of the original Star Trek series, only the main character in this is a lecherous drunk accompanied by an entire soundboard of wacky effects. Everything about this film is below Z-grade." < 1283637746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like Turkish Star Wars.... < 1283637747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm just going to have START x y or something, probably. < 1283637754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh it is not just a texted version? But a rip-off? < 1283637760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And it uses clips too, apparently. < 1283637762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1283637765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with Turkish Star Wars < 1283637768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1283637770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have King Leonidas? < 1283637772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both use /clips from the original/, too < 1283637773 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was thinking this would be a good candidate for a C64 game, with a sprite for the player. You could do an 80x50 playfield if your player sprite was really tiny (like, 2 pixels square.) < 1283637780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1283637785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the star trek theme and their own crazy theme < 1283637788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do the star trek theme again < 1283637792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why??? < 1283637794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1283637802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That would be awesome. < 1283637804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These films make very little sense. < 1283637814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Captain's logbook. Star-date blah blah. < 1283637820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which star trek theme? < 1283637823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOS? < 1283637824 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I can't remember being on the payroll < 1283637825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1283637829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh-aaaaah oh oh oh oh oh aaaaaaaah < 1283637831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what little backstory TSW has, I gather that the world has been blown up several times. < 1283637835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh ohhhh aaaaah aah ahah ah ah ahohhhh < 1283637844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that sounds inappropriate over IRC. < 1283637847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm trying to remember the TOS theme... was ages ago I watched non-movie TOS < 1283637855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Click the video and hear < 1283637863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7185067049150068960 < 1283637864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it on youtube < 1283637867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope you have a gvideo-download < 1283637873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not on Youtube. < 1283637897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, um the theme I meant < 1283637904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there were 3 versions < 1283637905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each series < 1283637909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? < 1283637917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two with crazy female vocals (one with them drowning out everything else) < 1283637921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other with it mixed in) < 1283637924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one without (series 1) < 1283637937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Does it bother you, that I have a different structure than human, Doc?" -- Mr. Spak < 1283637956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mr. Spock please don't be upset. We appreciate that you Vulcans are superior species." < 1283637957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one had female voices < 1283637961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which don't remember at all < 1283637974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Upset? Probably, you forgot that such an illogical emotion does not exist on us." < 1283638012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when did they use which theme? < 1283638013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has just as good writing as TOS :-) < 1283638024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1 was manly and unfeminine < 1283638030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the ordering of the mixed in / drowning one < 1283638036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 3 is the one that had it drowning out everything else creepily < 1283638045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAH @ THE TRANSPORTER GRAPHICS < 1283638053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but when did they use them? < 1283638057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ??? < 1283638059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for mirror universe and such? < 1283638062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the three series of TOS < 1283638065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aha < 1283638068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each had a different variation on the theme < 1283638069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do the action scenes have TRAMPOLINES? < 1283638074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no female, female mixed in, female drowned out < 1283638078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget the ordering of the latter two < 1283638079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, god I had forgotten how long TOS ran < 1283638081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dunno < 1283638084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, not long :P < 1283638088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but too long :P < 1283638097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just long enough for it to be syndicated striped < 1283638098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was vital for TNG < 1283638101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283638103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vital for TOS' popularity < 1283638105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lead to TNG < 1283638120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but just long enough for it to be syndicated striped <-- eh? < 1283638133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understood each word but wtf is "syndicated striped" < 1283638151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :striped = one episode a day < 1283638162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283638164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stripped, maybe < 1283638165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the term < 1283638172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283638173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripping_(television) < 1283638181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I found the original without vocals < 1283638190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds jazzy < 1283638195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in part < 1283638202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I much prefer the TNG music. < 1283638255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: speaking of swapping music for mirror universe episodes < 1283638260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4nceCmigAM ;; normal Enterprise theme < 1283638266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which enterprise? < 1283638267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbsZRbwbJ4 ;; "In a Mirror, Darkly" theme < 1283638270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ENT < 1283638276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in the last one? < 1283638277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek: Enterprise < 1283638277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleugh, awful. < 1283638278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283638284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The series? < 1283638286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is. < 1283638291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the theme. < 1283638292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a Mirror, Darkly" was actually good, though. < 1283638297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1283638297 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh wasn't that very un-spacy music too? guitar iirc? < 1283638298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch Star Trek... < 1283638301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pop song. < 1283638312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. But not the mirror universe one. < 1283638314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think I watched any of the mirror universe < 1283638320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only two episodes. < 1283638324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, will download once I finished watching TNG intro < 1283638326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No overlapping, either, just one ship. < 1283638327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The last season was about where it became watchable. < 1283638336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole two-parter took place in the mirror universe. < 1283638349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah: < 1283638352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it didn't end with a revolution. < 1283638354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[download] 1.5% of 23.01M at 29.61k/s ETA 13:03 < 1283638355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it got canceled just as it improved. < 1283638361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I will watch. In a while < 1283638372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: might want to watch both to see the contrst < 1283638373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*contrast < 1283638376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The normal theme was still god-awful. < 1283638382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, but look at the dl speed < 1283638383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they replaced all the historical exploration scenes with warfare :) < 1283638391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it seems that HD download slower than smaller ones < 1283638401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TNG one was original-size youtube < 1283638408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved the scene of Cochrane shooting the Vulcan. Nice teaser. < 1283638410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloaded at 200 kB/s < 1283638433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It tried a bit too hard to be retro. < 1283638444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prime directive? Never heard of it. < 1283638457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stardate? Naw, let's just use Earth years. Because only FEDERATIONS make space-wise decisions! < 1283638472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Star Trek TOS did not need a prequel. It really didn't. < 1283638481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needed a sequel that completely forgot about Voyager. < 1283638483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283638487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I dislike the idea of an Enterprise-pre-Enterprise. < 1283638503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd like to see a sequel set a long time after Voyager. < 1283638520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll require less anal clinching to canon. < 1283638533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That would be quite nice. < 1283638551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just like a sequel that is written well. < 1283638569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The most WTF part of Voyager canon is that it ends with the Borg no longer being much of a threat < 1283638572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell would you do that??? < 1283638573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the non-mirror one downloaded fast < 1283638574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1283638580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could freaking make it be about Wesley's adventures if it were written reasonably. :P < 1283638582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the best enemy ever. < 1283638601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: to make it written well would require some retconning. Because SHUT UP WESLEY!) < 1283638638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He graduated Starfleet and grew the fuck up. < 1283638647 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borg? Hey yeah, we have one of them on our CREW. < 1283638651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me one reason not to do this. < 1283638654 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhhh Voyager. < 1283638657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I cannot. < 1283638658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I was referring to the finale. < 1283638664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't care. < 1283638666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which future Janeway says "Ha, actually, I have this magic that defeats the Borg". < 1283638671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gives them it. < 1283638674 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283638675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck Janeway. < 1283638679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK JANEWAY. < 1283638680 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I only care that it ENDED. < 1283638684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THE FUCKING HELL OF JANEWAY FUCK. < 1283638684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1283638690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: VOYAGER IS FUCKING SHIT. < 1283638694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Janeway wasn't the worst of Voyager < 1283638699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1283638701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed, she wasn't. < 1283638702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there were far worse parts of it < 1283638705 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All characters were the worst characters in Voyager < 1283638707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was the worst character < 1283638708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But: Fuck. Janeway. < 1283638712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no < 1283638713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The Doctor < 1283638720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nelix. < 1283638721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the only sane man on the ship < 1283638734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Neelix didn't control the direction of the entire ship and its crew. < 1283638738 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe the doctor was not entirely void as a character. < 1283638738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait a second? Didn't he almost destroy the ship once? < 1283638740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do anything at all, actually. < 1283638742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after being taken over? < 1283638746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Doctor? < 1283638748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes < 1283638750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He tried very hard to be the Wesley. < 1283638752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe* < 1283638754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, don't know. < 1283638762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, he failed because he *sucks*, but hey! < 1283638772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Robert Picardo, the Doctor, actually initially auditioned for Neelix; can you believe that? < 1283638789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You know waaaay too much about this awful show. < 1283638792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have cooked up a WONDERFUL soup that -- -- will hopefully make you shut up." < 1283638794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You're fucking kidding. < 1283638798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I watch it for amusement. < 1283638807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Like MST3K, but I get to come up with the narration myself. < 1283638810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope. < 1283638816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's often in so-bad-it's-good territory. < 1283638829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... All the merit it has for much of its run. < 1283638852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a handful of actually decent-to-good episodes that somehow managed to sneak in) < 1283638856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not so boring that I couldn't watch it, like -- some of those other shows. < 1283638867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wow that mirror universe music was *AWESOME* < 1283638868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I've actually grown on Deep Space 9. < 1283638868 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is awful > boring? Dunno, really. < 1283638871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just pure awesome < 1283638884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: DS9 was not half as bad < 1283638887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I liked the fade of the title to black at the beginning. It's the little things... < 1283638892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I mean wrt boringness. < 1283638897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The mirror universe episode there was actually genuinely good. < 1283638899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH < 1283638904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right < 1283638906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No goatees! < 1283638906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop talking about Star Trek! < 1283638913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bunch of people being assholes to each other, and then it ends! < 1283638914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we at least discuss LITERATURE? < 1283638914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, haven't watched them < 1283638915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know if it was boring so much as.. slow. < 1283638929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, at least we're not discussing favorite captains. < 1283638933 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OVID'S METAMORPHOSES. READ IT? < 1283638934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voyager, "Blood Fever" review: Everyone gets pon farr. Everyone tries to have sex with each other! < 1283638935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP < 1283638939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, A BIT < 1283638943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean Star Trek: The Complete Movie Scripts? < 1283638943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN LATIN, AS WELL < 1283638946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's a competition? < 1283638952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'M ABOUT 1/3 THE WAY THROUGH < 1283638953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder, does that exist?) < 1283638956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it probably does) < 1283638957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's some debate, yes. < 1283638959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT LATIN THOUGH < 1283638960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Picard. I can see an argument for Sisko, but he wasn't really a captain. < 1283638972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kirk was brash and ... not as intelligent as Picard. Janewahahahahaha < 1283638982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Some people actually like Kirk. They must love cheese. < 1283638982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I have the say TNG is my favourite < 1283638984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archer was... uh... I can't think of anything to say < 1283639010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, YOU'RE SO UNCULTURED < 1283639030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One bad thing about "In a Mirror, Darkly" was a bit of a continuity error. < 1283639053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions a speech by Cochrane talking about the future Borg and future crew battling before he made the warp flight in a speech. < 1283639054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could not find module `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec' < 1283639059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Text.Parsec < 1283639060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, forget Parsec anyway < 1283639063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In a series that played with time travel to the point that it may have ceased to have happened, that is *not* a big deal. < 1283639064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: for v3 < 1283639067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But, < 1283639071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they gotta go and move everything huh < 1283639079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How come the crew of First Contact didn't know about this? < 1283639086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And realise? < 1283639094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU CAN say that this is because of the alternate universe. < 1283639100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why, when it's identical in every other way apart from evil? < 1283639104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could not find module `Text.Parsec' < 1283639106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I happen to mention that Enterprise may have wiped itself from existence? < 1283639106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1283639111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't "In a Mirror, Darkly". < 1283639118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was "Regeneration", which I watched the same day (oops). < 1283639124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they have no alternate universe excuse. < 1283639126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: In a series that played with time travel to the point that it may have ceased to have happened, that is *not* a big deal. <-- actually I find that was one of the few good parts of that series < 1283639133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, forget Parsec anyway < 1283639134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love time travel < 1283639139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, could have been done better < 1283639148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, any time travel is better than no time travel ;) < 1283639156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more Q. < 1283639159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any future series must have Q. < 1283639166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably Q and the Borg at the same time. < 1283639169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Picard. < 1283639171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: rm -rf Voyager && yes < 1283639172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godlike superbeings FtW! < 1283639176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh god no < 1283639188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still not read the Culture books? < 1283639190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Q was an annoying arrogant bastard < 1283639192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just make an episode that is Picard and Q and the Borg destroying Voyager, over and over again, and they do it so many times that it actually disappears from the timestream forever. < 1283639196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... that's ... the point ... < 1283639214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes and it doesn't work out too well < 1283639220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it did. < 1283639230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I disagree there < 1283639230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It worked brilliantly in TNG. < 1283639239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, the first 3 or 4 times < 1283639246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then *yawn* < 1283639249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All Good Things..." <3 < 1283639250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was solidly meh in DS9, and SUCKED MAJOR ASS in Voyager... < 1283639264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dude, there were only 8 Q episodes in TNG. < 1283639267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were 8 seasons. < 1283639279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes. And? < 1283639286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 8 < 1283639297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things..." are the same story. < 1283639301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't avoid involving Q in the conclusion. < 1283639306 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283639307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's 7 Q stories now. < 1283639318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 7 still < 1283639321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hide and Q" was first season, so we can pretend it never existed. 6 Q stories. < 1283639330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait what < 1283639332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" "Hide and Q" was first season, so we can pretend it never existed. 6 Q stories." < 1283639334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1283639339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the first season was awful < 1283639347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: First season sucked and Riker didn't have a beard. < 1283639350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it introduced Wesley-as-God (by mistake), had beardless Riker, and hackneyed plots. < 1283639351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring awful things, how does THAT work? < 1283639355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay and 4 < 6 still < 1283639376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Don't forget the keychain-sized phasers. < 1283639388 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How do you *aim* that thing?) < 1283639391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, "Q Who" is good because it introduces the Borg and is an awesome episode. 1 good story. "Deja Q" has mortal Q. Good. < 1283639407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Qpid" ... eh. Meh. Not included. < 1283639418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why did you not include Qpid? < 1283639426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not good. I'm counting good ones to prove it's > 4. < 1283639430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...anyway, point is, almost all Q stories in TNG were good. < 1283639435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, there were only 8. < 1283639439 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283639443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm? how do you aim a laser pointer of keychain size? Such exists for presentation stuff iirc < 1283639444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Q < 1283639471 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the mortal Q one was good, I agree < 1283639487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to deliberately induce suffering by watching SGI.. actually, maybe I'll watch Deja Q < 1283639490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283639502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen it before < 1283639513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things..." back to back. Bet it makes perfect sense. < 1283639538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many bluray discs do you need to fit all of TOS I wonder < 1283639543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know. I've never had to mortally wound a whiteboard. < 1283639545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Encounter at Farpoint" is kinda wince-inducing when Q isn't on-screen. < 1283639549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um. < 1283639550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three. < 1283639554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the MOST. < 1283639555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD < 1283639558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1283639559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more. < 1283639565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGU has half a season on a Blu-Ray. < 1283639567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, really? < 1283639568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So six, at the most. < 1283639574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That much quality would be pointless for the shabby source material. < 1283639575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what quality? < 1283639576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So three. < 1283639580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SGU? 1080p. < 1283639585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283639589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGU being? < 1283639589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultra quality HD etc. new modern show etc. < 1283639590 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I assume that you haven't, then. < 1283639592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stargate Universe. < 1283639596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283639598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ? < 1283639605 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the Culture novels. < 1283639616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283639620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like SGU < 1283639623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT WE ARE ALL NEGLECTING HERE < 1283639626 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bah < 1283639630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, 1080p... http://xkcd.com/732/ < 1283639634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES PHASE II < 1283639634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: DOT ACTION SUPER PANIC ? < 1283639636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A Blu-ray disc gets you 50GB. Which is significantly higher than you need for very good quality 1080p video. < 1283639643 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stupid. < 1283639644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm okay. < 1283639650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: xkcd, stupid < 1283639659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like xkcd < 1283639659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is that *specific* xkcd stupid < 1283639660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1080p is damn good quality < 1283639662 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TV" and "monitor" are both very different things. < 1283639662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you either get stupid high-quality movies or quite a lot on a disc. < 1283639666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not new < 1283639666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1283639667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to read both xkcd and xkcdsucks though < 1283639671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I watch movies on computer, not on a TV < 1283639672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I break my vow to never read xkcd? < 1283639673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcdsucks sucks a lot nowadays too < 1283639677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carl is just going through the motions < 1283639678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no < 1283639678 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your average monitor isn't a metre tall. < 1283639686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway < 1283639693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES: PHASE II < 1283639694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCUSS < 1283639700 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thankfully I overcame the urge. < 1283639706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even make myself watch more than a few minutes of World Enough and Time. < 1283639710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glittersuit did it. < 1283639711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, true. So it has way lower DPI too < 1283639715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He literally wore a suit with glitter all over it. < 1283639723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You sit way, way away from it. < 1283639729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd wasn't dissing HDTVs, anyway, just their impressiveness. < 1283639735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's saying "HDTVs are good but they are not anything impressive". < 1283639739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which is also silly IMO < 1283639746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1283639754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is stupid and has no idea why TVs are good < 1283639757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving on, < 1283639771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I find it nicer to watch on my desktop monitor < 1283639800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could get a TV tuner card if I needed that < 1283639817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Television is bad. Televisions are good. < 1283639819 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ugh. < 1283639828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, hm? < 1283639915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, why did you say "ugh" while highlighting me? < 1283639917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Proposal: Star Trek fan sequel series starring people who aren't unwashed Trekkies and with actual production values. < 1283639928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as Vulcans that aren't obviously wearing velcro. < 1283639934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Problem: getting people involved. < 1283639945 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, velcro? < 1283639946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also: to be fair, New Voyages is following after TOS. < 1283639953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got about the same level of production values. < 1283639954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, I hardly ever watch TV. when I watch DVDs I do it on my computer. Which has a nice monitor and nice sound. < 1283639957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll play Wesley, who, although he has graduated, has a rare genetic condition that means he still looks 12. < 1283639960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like me! < 1283639965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The looking 12 part, that is. < 1283639968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, now I'm wondering what the fuck you meant with " Vorpal, ugh." < 1283639971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he has actually shrunk. < 1283639987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should just do a Galaxy Quest series. < 1283639989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How's about we just get Wil Wheaton. < 1283639998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He'd want money. < 1283640007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You don't *know* that. < 1283640007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he looks like Riker now. < 1283640022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: !! Wil could play Riker. < 1283640026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frakes is way too old-looking now. < 1283640047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming this has just turned into "Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Next Generation". < 1283640049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_, okay. I guess you just said that to troll then, if you aren't going to explain what the fuck you meant with it < 1283640066 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TROLLING BY SILENCE < 1283640080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1283640111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, starring WIL WHEATON as COMMANDER WILLIAM T. RIKER. < 1283640129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install libghc6-parsec-dev < 1283640132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was what was wrong. < 1283640144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Presumably this is set on the Enterprise-E. < 1283640149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? maybe you meant that tv tuner card have traditionally been shoddy with buggy drivers? Well, there are good ones. I know some people who are using such under linux with good results. < 1283640163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are of course still bad tv tuners, but you just have to avoid them < 1283640175 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will get zzo38 to write me a driver for my card < 1283640179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you had to avoid ATI graphics a few years ago (that changed quite a bit now though!) < 1283640188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We need Patrick Stewart... < 1283640194 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just have zzo38 reinvent the computer. < 1283640239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fuck it, we can't possibly play the TNG crew. < 1283640247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's set on the Enterprise-K. < 1283640249 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there's a picture of David Tennant as Hamlet about to stab Patrick Stewart. < 1283640255 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Create a caption. < 1283640257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not pick the best characters from each generation? Spock, Picard, Riker, Data, and so on? < 1283640260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I loved that performance. < 1283640268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because we are Trekkies, and we fucking care about canon. < 1283640276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh < 1283640281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Spock/Picard would delight the slashers. < 1283640283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I know how to solve it < 1283640288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1283640289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No time travel. < 1283640290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we take the time travel from ENT < 1283640295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh you were too fast < 1283640300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENT had no time travel < 1283640301 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryonics! < 1283640302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283640305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did, probably < 1283640312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what do you mean < 1283640313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's science fiction, you can contrive a reason < 1283640318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a prequel, not a time travel < 1283640324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else just forgot to mention Archer and his ship < 1283640328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how convenient < 1283640335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ENT had *lots* of time travel iirc? < 1283640338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1283640342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283640346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have all the characters resurrected via some alien technology < 1283640351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that works too < 1283640353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set it in the far future < 1283640360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they've all had a chance to be dead < 1283640362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even further than the rest? < 1283640370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283640370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283640375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far future wrt Star Trek canon < 1283640390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the year 3000, let's say! < 1283640393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1283640396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we could have someone frozen in 1999 < 1283640401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gets revi-- < 1283640403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUTURAMA < 1283640403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1283640406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[opening titles play] < 1283640409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ARGH YOU BEAT ME TO IT! < 1283640435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think someone from 3100 or such visited Archer in ENT? < 1283640439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This episode brought to you by blatant trademark violation! < 1283640464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now tubular bells are stuck in my head! < 1283640537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, which ones are tubular bells? < 1283640555 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands Vorpal a link to Wikipedia < 1283640599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :-D < 1283640600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why are they stuck in your head? Accident while practising playing? < 1283640602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat? < 1283640624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Dum dum dumdum dum dum dum dum da da dada dum dum dumdum... < 1283640625 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Futurama theme < 1283640633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh, it uses those? < 1283640633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now "Tubular Bells" is stuck in my head! < 1283640663 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thankfully I don't know that one. Only heard of it. < 1283640678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I've listened to the whole thing. It's alright. < 1283640679 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I think it must be like "Classical Gas". < 1283640688 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turkish Star Wars has a sequel. < 1283640690 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1283640761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4eZJh3FFg0 an excerpt of its beginning < 1283640771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not anything amazing or anything, but. < 1283640778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure changes a lot. < 1283640796 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No flash. < 1283640801 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could fix that, but < 1283640809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would involve EFFORT. < 1283640822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to put out a lot of that right now. < 1283640845 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is quite distracting. < 1283640861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, there are too many things I could be doing, so I can't decide. < 1283640883 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283640896 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsec is a wash. I... just can't get into it. < 1283640922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's aight. < 1283640938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least I have it *installed*. < 1283640948 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283640981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kind of bugs me that it doesn't come with a lexer < 1283641032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why does Neko suck? < 1283641035 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about it. < 1283641039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtually. < 1283641042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, things < 1283641049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not ... interesting ... good ... uh < 1283641052 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods knowlingly < 1283641055 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1283641091 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, just listened to some tubular bells on youtube, and yeah catchy < 1283641106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu[laptop]: I just wrote a line on IRC to someone random. < 1283641114 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283641138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, but futurama theme is a lot more than just that. Lots synthed music too I think < 1283641148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283641167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Huh < 1283641174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was one long tubular bells solo < 1283641211 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, now I have TB stuck in my head. < 1283641327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, um? Are there different variants? < 1283641336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the ones I found on youtube was definitely not solos < 1283641532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I can't find any that is a solo < 1283641581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, definitely synthed music, tubular bells, and some other percussion, possibly also some non-overdriven electrical guitar, though not completely sure about that < 1283641818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283641850 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The best TV themes are always instrumental solos < 1283641899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION struggles through this Parsec thing < 1283641905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm..... < 1283641913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, not sure I agree < 1283641944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instrumental: yes in general, though voice that isn't singing can be used to some great effect < 1283641951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the mirror universe theme for ENT < 1283641955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indeed pure awesome < 1283641981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solos? No I don't think I agree < 1283642026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Murder, She Wrote", "MacGyver", "The Beachcombers" < 1283642050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never watched the first or the last ones < 1283642102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, which season for the middle one? Was years since I watched MacGyver. And google indicates different theme music for the different seasons < 1283642102 0 :Brandie!~Brandie@69.73.232.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283642102 0 :Brandie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spamming is fun! Brought to you by FreeNode. /join #freenode < 1283642102 0 :Brandie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283642110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1283642117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was absurd < 1283642133 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-201-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283642161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, most absurd spam ever in logs while you were offline < 1283642218 0 :Sebbie!~Sebbie@65.48.159.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283642218 0 :Sebbie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spamming is fun! Brought to you by FreeNode. /join #freenode < 1283642218 0 :Sebbie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283642222 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1283642293 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange indeed. < 1283642311 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to launch an expedition. fungot, are you coming? < 1283642312 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: robert hart, night watchman at rhodes, declares it was mixed with a sort of palimpsest formed after the obliteration of a previous design. in nature it was wholly fnord by the sculptured walls along our route. only when we had passed outside the radius of the campfire. then i half fancied i heard a new sound: common, yet unlike any i had ever looked < 1283642356 0 :aklis!~santi@unaffiliated/aklis JOIN :#esoteric < 1283642363 0 :aklis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283642398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aklis: You forgot to tell us about teh FREENOED < 1283642419 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1283642420 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1283642431 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fisher < 1283642431 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) < 1283642440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no that was some random person joining due to me mentioning this spam to a staffer in #freenode. happened to mention channel name < 1283642457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that person was also complaining about the same spam in another channel I think < 1283642535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, um I can only find non-solo theme music for MacGyver when googling < 1283642542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so got a link to the solo version? < 1283642619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, actually there seems to be some guy who recorded a solo arrangement on guitar, but it seems definitely non-official < 1283642622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that #freenode is the channel where you report spam, why would a spammer refer you to it? < 1283642624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah a link would be nice < 1283642652 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this was your fault? < 1283642659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, no? Just that last guy < 1283642665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, who didn't spam < 1283642666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283642986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so Parsec is maybe livable if you build off the supplied combinators. < 1283642999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sepBy, for e.g. < 1283643079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, you don't want to do that in #freenode < 1283643081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, cpressey dislikes Parsec? < 1283643089 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283643094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, continue and chances are you will be klined < 1283643097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, seriously < 1283643105 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klined? < 1283643109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, yes < 1283643112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banned from network < 1283643120 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1283643122 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoilsports. < 1283643131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, basically it is a non-joky channel < 1283643147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't Deja Q in fiveminute.net ? < 1283643167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what is "fiveminute.net" to begin with < 1283643171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've almost got the DJGPP build of C-INTERCAL working again < 1283643185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, is it something owned by someone in here? If not, why are you asking here < 1283643208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because several people here are fans of fiveminute.net < 1283643210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, and seriously go learn about IRC. I think kline was even in the original irc < 1283643216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, irc rfc* < 1283643229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I nave no idea what it is even < 1283643251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Vorpal is lacking a web browser < 1283643267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I fail to see why I should open it for this < 1283643268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah, I think I'm turning into alise < 1283643294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a site with 5-minute satires of various Star Trek (and a few other series) episodes < 1283643301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1283643318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm working through my differences with Parsec right now < 1283643329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, any good < 1283643329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283643346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, many of them < 1283643359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one for Stargate SG-1's "2010" is junk though < 1283643359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh, it is not videos? It is transcripts? < 1283643362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1283643375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how can it be 5-minute satires then? < 1283643381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it depend on reading speed < 1283643384 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes! DJGPP rocking goodness! < 1283643387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*, it's just the name < 1283643426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: And stranded the two of them on a remote planet? Does this mean Q's reality series is Queer Eye for the Bearded Guy now? < 1283643426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worf: Commander Riker does not have a beard. < 1283643426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: Yeah, but who knows if I'll get a shot at making that joke later. < 1283643499 0 :Hiant!~chatzilla@pool-71-255-202-26.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283643619 0 :Hiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283643695 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283643730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, I've almost got the DJGPP build of C-INTERCAL working again <-- does that mean you had to break filenames again? < 1283643753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1283643757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1283643759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't found out yet < 1283643809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I seem to remember that the Mac/PPC port had some longer filenames, that had to be that way < 1283643814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure though < 1283643828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is MacOS Classic/PPC < 1283643892 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let i = 1 + 2 in i < 1283643912 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1283643925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let i = read "123" < 1283643963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let i :: Integer = read "123" < 1283643981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's some other syntax for that isn't there < 1283643987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you integrate the patches from my port? < 1283644003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't < 1283644021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they rather system-specific? < 1283644023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let (i :: Integer) = read "123" in i < 1283644025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some of those fixed generic problems that were hidden due to gcc accepting non-strictly conforming programs < 1283644031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283644039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see the docs included with the patches < 1283644044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll try to see which are portability patches and maybe apply them < 1283644078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the path generation fix is generic but only matters on platforms where adding an extra path separator char isn't harmless < 1283644081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as classic mac OS < 1283644088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is definitely non-harmless < 1283644089 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let i = ((read "123") :: Integer) in i < 1283644090 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1283644093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283644115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since there could be other such platforms you should probably apply that fix < 1283644165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I agree with portability fixing < 1283644177 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and one fix for the *.l files was needed for any platforms lacking unistd.h < 1283644185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My patch is in AceHack! < 1283644187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION happies < 1283644198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which flex didn't properly check for < 1283644201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is; when did you find out, and how? < 1283644212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mentioned it in #nethack I think < 1283644218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or you were adding it < 1283644219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but ages ago < 1283644226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assumed you'd have noticed earlier < 1283644226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, very few of those patches are system specific. It is just that it happens to work on most other platforms :P < 1283644232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you noticed at all < 1283644249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we were talking about AceHack now < 1283644249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the system specific stuff is in the ppc subdir and in perpet.c, and iirc not everything for perpet.c was system specific < 1283644370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbl, if you have any question about the patches I'm probably back in about 20 minutes or so. Maybe a bit more < 1283644384 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283644472 0 :comjex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1283644781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138648 < 1283644799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it is, because I think you can encode SMETANA in it, but my brain isn't really working <-- SMETANA isn't TC < 1283644814 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283644822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: D'oh < 1283644823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with finite starting setup < 1283644844 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed ByteByteJump isn't with fiite starting setup either. < 1283644845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/setup/program/ < 1283644856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1283644862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "infinite SMETANA" < 1283644864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1283644893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh btw, that P != NP proof was debunked, wasn't it? < 1283644932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite SMETANA needs a "pattern" in the initial infinite program though, I think (like e.g. Wireworld does), but BBJ might not, it might work with it "all zeroes" < 1283644938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less, the author seems unable to admit it though < 1283644966 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1283644990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last i heard he _still_ claimed to be intending to send a repaired proof for publication. but no longer to publish it on the web beforehand :D < 1283645019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wasn't intended to reach the web initially, though) < 1283645070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked much at bytebytejump < 1283645155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is more dubious is that he now claimed to send it just to select experts again - but this did _not_ include the people that had been finding flaws < 1283645161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*even more dubious < 1283645195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most importantly terence tao, who said he had not received a copy) < 1283645206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Dubious < 1283645257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess at this point everyone expects it to just fizzle out and be forgotten < 1283645259 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1283645363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally there was a proof that P=NP from an indian professor in recent days < 1283645393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be taken very seriously though < 1283645436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for the class of problems that get more convenient to solve if the halting problem were solved < 1283645443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note "convenient". As in, not necessary < 1283645451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pi_1 and Sigma_1 < 1283645462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1283645477 0 :sebbu[laptop]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283645480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although necessary is also interesting < 1283645531 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You might have to define "convenient" more formally < 1283645541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall anything about non-necessary < 1283645584 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty bizarre to think of things like, "If I have an oracle for HP I can sort a list in O(log n) time!" < 1283645592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the halting problem _already_ assumes you have unlimited resources to start with, so defining "convenient" seems difficult. < 1283645647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious: now that _is_ dubious, you would need to load the data onto the oracle tape after all < 1283645685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although given that, it _would_ seem like an HP oracle could solve everything computable in O(n) time < 1283645730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just load the fixed program which halts iff your computation accepts, plus its data) < 1283645800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's [everything computable] in O(n) time btw, not everything [computable in O(n) time] < 1283645950 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283646017 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283646674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Grah, I think I'm turning into alise ;; why? < 1283646692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of telling him what he wanted to know, I just acted rudely < 1283646707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that saying that may also be rude :/ < 1283646722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Murder, She Wrote", "MacGyver", "The Beachcombers" ;; I hate Murder, She Wrote so much. < 1283646874 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :PermanentRebel < 1283646878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOWWUdMAfSY < 1283646893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My patch is in AceHack! < 1283646894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo happies < 1283646895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which patch? < 1283646911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the one that allows candles to be attached to the candelabrum underwater < 1283646942 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "The Scarecrow and Mrs. King". < 1283646994 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why can't you do that normally? < 1283646999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't mind people saying they're like me :P < 1283647000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious: ? < 1283647009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I only do that to AnMaster, though. < 1283647009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I can't say I ever tried in nethack though < 1283647016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because it thinks that you're trying to light a candle < 1283647021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah < 1283647022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And won't let you < 1283647048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo... darnit < 1283647051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, should report a bug to the nethack theme too? Unless that has already been done < 1283647062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah, reported a while ago < 1283647085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took them time to receive it, and they never checked if the patch is still up, so they made their own, probably more elegant, fix < 1283647134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NetHack dev team, elegant code. < 1283647135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha! < 1283647178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed, Highly elegant. Compared to some of the code on tdwtf that is. < 1283647219 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Moonlighting". < 1283647240 0 :PermanentRebel!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1283647247 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, 80's TV shows may not be the best cultural common ground for a 15-year-old in Britain. < 1283647254 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*American TV shows < 1283647258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, not so permanent then? < 1283647266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Dubious is cpressey. < 1283647271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious: I had no idea of your context. < 1283647273 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I'm still a Rebel (in Agora). Just not in IRC. < 1283647274 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1283647282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, or perhaps you rebelled against being a permanent one? < 1283647287 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COntext?! Pfah! btw I'm getting used to Parsec. < 1283647289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He rebels against APPLE with his BOMBS < 1283647302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is actually how jailbreaking works; exactly like civil war < 1283647305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please confirm/deny, comex < 1283647312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious: Anyway, I hate Murder, She Wrote so, so much. < 1283647318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"Murder, She Wrote" < 1283647328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which genre? < 1283647341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know those silly light crime programs of the 80s? < 1283647343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diagnosis Murder and the like. < 1283647348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283647352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like that, except the main character is a semi-old woman. < 1283647355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who attracts DEATH. EVERYWHERE < 1283647362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: typo? < 1283647362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like Miss Maple? < 1283647370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ? < 1283647377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Much worse. < 1283647380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*marple < 1283647389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.) < 1283647392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corpal: you pinged me < 1283647392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283647396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the Miss Marple *books* are actually good < 1283647422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a bit repetitive after a while though < 1283647436 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agatha Christie can't hold a candle to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle < 1283647468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious, while that is true, that doesn't mean Agatha Christie is *bad*. Just not nearly as good. < 1283647486 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.js1k.com may interest you people, if you don't know about it < 1283647498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, by the way < 1283647525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats FireFly -----### < 1283647531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hello, oerjan < 1283647534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1283647557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone actually playing Dot Action 2 currently? < 1283647799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1283647835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1283647838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to 60. < 1283647841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you remember how to do 60? < 1283647937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, sed is slow on DOSBox < 1283647950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everything is (rm is actually slow enough that you can see it execute) < 1283647953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sed in particular < 1283647999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what version? < 1283647999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of sed < 1283648000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283648000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :port < 1283648004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpdgdjgpjgpgjpdgjdpgpp? < 1283648027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep, djgpp < 1283648104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can run Windows 3.1 on it. Try that :P < 1283648119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have a spare win3.1 license < 1283648152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283648176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nor does anyone else who does it... < 1283648195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides, you can't buy them any more < 1283648202 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1138727 <-- Why this not work? < 1283648231 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why my fail not tell endBy1 stop? < 1283648345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dubious: Please call yourself cpressey and what have you done to my browser. < 1283648350 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283648353 0 :Dubious!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1283648364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ATE YOUR BROWSER, LITTLE MAN < 1283648385 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is apparently some kind of dragon creature < 1283648413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://imgur.com/zZyIH.png < 1283648414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously dude < 1283648415 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet I have to use 'try' or 'choice' < 1283648415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not cool < 1283648437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooooool < 1283648481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why my fail not tell endBy1 stop? < 1283648483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1283648498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fail will fail the whole parse, I think < 1283648500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a syntax error < 1283648503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than ending endBy1 < 1283648514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd tell you to use Parsec 3, but *eh* < 1283648517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait Parsec does come with a lexer! < 1283648520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What is this language? < 1283648523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes, it does. < 1283648526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the most general one, but yes. < 1283648546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My kitchen, if it were a restaurant's kitchen, would be closed downj < 1283648563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is just an example, as was the previous one I pastied. < 1283648581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort-of kind-of parts of the PL-{GOTO} language. < 1283648587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL-{GOTO}? < 1283648598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DETTOL PROTECTS FACT < 1283648608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I guess my question is, how does endBy1 know when to end, if not from a fail (I thought it would catch it and stop)? < 1283648622 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283648637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell you by quoting the source, which will be a bitch because you're being poopy and using Parsec 2. < 1283648638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL-{GOTO} is the language of for loops, basically (it's in a computation theory text by Brainerd & Weber) < 1283648638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless... < 1283648642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does import Text.Parsec work? < 1283648653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you're using Parsec 3, which is probably good. < 1283648660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DETTOL? < 1283648661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not. I'm using whatever Ubuntu decides to give me. Give it to me, Ubuntu! < 1283648668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have cabal? < 1283648681 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cabal makes me sick. But, I can check. < 1283648694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: cabal: command not found < 1283648711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in any case you need try if you want anything to recover from a fail that consumes characters < 1283648813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It appears that Parsec has automatic support for indentation-based parsing. < 1283648817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.IndentParser < 1283648819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As part of the tokeniser. < 1283648826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no < 1283648828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another thing < 1283648831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another package < 1283648840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bobby-tables.com/ < 1283648840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install IndentParser --constraint="parsec >= 3" < 1283648853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you remove the ubuntu package, install cabal-install (search your package manager) < 1283648856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do < 1283648860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install parsec==3 < 1283648875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently IndentParser doesn't actually work with parsec 3 < 1283648877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1283648885 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`apt-cache search cabal-install` == '' < 1283648885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there appears to be replacement code < 1283648889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1283648895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: apt-cache search cabal < 1283648943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`apt-cache search cabal` == ghc6, ghc6-doc, ghc6-prof, haskell-devscripts, libhugs-cabal-bundled < 1283648945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The beta-Juliet language is not Turing-Complete by itself. Nor is the Portia pre-processor. However, when used together, the intent is that they form a Turing-Complete language.]] ;; DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE < 1283648949 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1283648953 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and fortunes-fr < 1283648959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So say people who don't believe in ais523's proof.) < 1283648965 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1283648972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Install fortunes-fr. If nothing else, you will be amused. < 1283648988 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oui, j'amuse. < 1283648989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[Historical note: Portia, as it has stood for many years, cannot really generalize either, so the combination of beta-Juliet and Portia is still not Turing-Complete.]]] < 1283648990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA. < 1283649010 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of InfinitePortia might work < 1283649033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wrote 2iota instead < 1283649045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"beta-Juliet and Portia are puns on the names of automobile manufacturers." ;; Wait, which? < 1283649067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is 2iota :) < 1283649108 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Toyota sucks now so I regret calling it that now. < 1283649117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which manufacturers yaeraeryahragh < 1283649121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Can 2iota programs terminate? < 1283649128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "Portia" should be easy < 1283649140 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, if there are no more events < 1283649149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Por...tea...ah. < 1283649157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Darn. < 1283649171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You could have made a joke wrt the recent Toyotas that wouldn't stop accelerating. < 1283649178 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey yeah! < 1283649182 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1283649192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you not forsee this?!?!??!?!!?! < 1283649267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hey, do you strictly need the alphabet/succ stuff? < 1283649289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :event Succ One, causes SuccResult Two; < 1283649293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :event Succ Two, causes SuccResult Three; < 1283649294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283649296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1283649317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly? probably not < 1283649323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :event Domino N Falls, causes Succ N. < 1283649331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :event SuccResult N, causes Domino N Falls. < 1283649334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case, the Result Succs. < 1283649355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what is succ Seven, anyway? < 1283649357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an alphabet of seven < 1283649362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One? < 1283649374 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283649376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's One Seven. 2iota has lists of symbols. Or something < 1283649386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, or One One? < 1283649389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're crazy. < 1283649389 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget. < 1283649409 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more than crazy. I'm Dubious. Or I *was*. < 1283649437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO, I know I need a 'try', but I don't know where to put it. Attempt #1 did not bear fruit. < 1283649570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the whole "succ" thing was to ensure that you could access an infinite set of names of events. < 1283649577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try's loins are infertile. < 1283649587 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise there would be no Turing-completey. < 1283649641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beer! Beer will help. < 1283649659 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, "Porsche" and "Alfa Romeo" < 1283649676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, I thought it was a pronunciation pun. < 1283649680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 2iota. < 1283649713 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "Portia" was this character in "Weerd-Oh's"... I assume they were punning it. I just borrowed it, in that respect. < 1283649725 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283649742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misplaced apostrophe syndrome. < 1283649743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beep beep beep. < 1283649769 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283649786 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "Weird-Ohs". http://sharetv.org/shows/weird-ohs_ca < 1283649831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. beta-Juliet is more of a correspondence play-on-words. < 1283649881 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten emails from people assuming the languages have something to do with Shakespeare, because there's a Portia in one of his other plays. < 1283649995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did get the pun in "beta-Juliet" < 1283650021 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283650031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's alpha-romeo supposed to mena? < 1283650032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1283650052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have one question, if you have any opinion what DVI specials the TeXnicard DVI driver needs to support. < 1283650057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that the joke's there, and "beta-Juliet" is a second-tier joke < 1283650063 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo < 1283650117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have no opinion on that matter. < 1283650143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo doesn't know of Alfa Romeo? < 1283650181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is what Alfa Romeo means. And is that where "beta-Juliet" comes from? < 1283650185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an automaker? < 1283650202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283650233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Please have a go at stage 60 of Dot Action 2. < 1283650237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code 188-268. kthx < 1283650331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: SERIOUSLY HOW DO YOU DO IT < 1283650336 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Please give me Flash on Ubuntu without any hassle. < 1283650357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Install the package. < 1283650359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1283650373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please play stage 101 of Dot Action 2 < 1283650387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1283650387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr ok < 1283650397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't completed 60-100 yet. < 1283650412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is the best way to implement allowing the text to be stretched horizontally but not vertically, if there is not room, it will make it less wider horizontal, with using TeX, METAFONT, ImageMagick, etc? < 1283650423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those won't show up in the list when you do the bonus code < 1283650430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the only TeX etc. we know is LaTeX. < 1283650437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 101 > 100. < 1283650441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They appear after you complete 100. < 1283650450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care how you justify it to yourself, I am playing in order and that means 100 before 101. < 1283650452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you checked the flash file for that? < 1283650463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have /done it/ before when using a code for all 100, iirc. < 1283650466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least someone here did. < 1283650466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know only LaTeX? < 1283650488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: All of us do, more or less. Or nothing at all. < 1283650492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hassle level has risen above 0.4%, aborting. < 1283650503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you had to accept a LICENSE? < 1283650507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What? < 1283650517 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha256sum mismatch install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz < 1283650518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Flash plugin is NOT installed. < 1283650529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Whaat? < 1283650533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude update < 1283650535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION walks awat < 1283650537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awayy < 1283650538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an out-of-date package file, probably. < 1283650551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That is the package, right? < 1283650598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree < 1283650600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason that should not work. < 1283650615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not asking about macro packages though. I am asking about how I should implement the DVI driver and stuff like that, to make it work properly like that. < 1283650649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: None of us know about that. < 1283650658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I am aware. < 1283650663 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did a 'sudo apt-get update'. Did a 'sudo apt-get remove flashplugin-nonfree' then again with the 'sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree'. Same checksum error. < 1283650703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd alfa-romeo HER beta-Juliet < 1283650706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283650731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 32-bit or 64-bit? < 1283650763 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 32-bit < 1283650772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Okay, it's easy then: < 1283650796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds vaguely like the package is corrupted somehow < 1283650798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/thankyou/?installer=Flash_Player_10.1_for_Linux_(.deb) < 1283650799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the checksum is wrong < 1283650804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Save this, then "sudo dpkg -i thefilename". < 1283650806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1283650824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523: I know, I know, they have an apt repository, but this is simple.) < 1283650845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd apt HER cache < 1283650848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it sounds to me like Adobe upgraded it silently < 1283650849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stop that < 1283650858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd stop HER... Ok, enough < 1283650882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you there. < 1283650883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1283651036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And restart Firefox I presume> < 1283651039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>/?/ < 1283651062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Just reloading a page should work, but if not, yeah. < 1283651079 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Gimme that dot action link again < 1283651094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283651101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a fast mirror with 1.10, but there you go. < 1283651106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :188-268 for level 60 < 1283651114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the trick is to bash off the ceiling before you drop down to the line of blues, so you fall faster. < 1283651121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working! < 1283651129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REST OF WEEKEND NOW GONE < 1283651194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]What's so great about 1.10? < 1283651214 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HOw do I enter the code? < 1283651217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dunno. It's totally updated. < 1283651218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : asd prevent tk be dru nk < 1283651220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Second menu item. < 1283651236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cpressy even know the slightest thing about playing? < 1283651236 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283651242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyan == goal. You need all of theym < 1283651248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. Figured it out < 1283651251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yellow == death, unless the Zet timer is running < 1283651259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: HE knows. < 1283651260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*He < 1283651261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No he doesn't really. He got up to level 3 a few days ago! < 1283651280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....so what happened in the meantime that Flash is no longer existant? < 1283651286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I suicide? < 1283651301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter < 1283651303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That was a work computer. < 1283651304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrow < 1283651304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End < 1283651313 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thx < 1283651315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, Arrow to End, then space < 1283651315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1283651374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO PASS LEVEL 60 IN THAT SORT OF TIME LIMIT???? < 1283651383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Zombies < 1283651390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283651395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been level with the last dot when I die < 1283651406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure you have to bash against the ceiling so you fall faster when you go to that line of dots < 1283651432 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only got past the first "water" and the clock ran out. < 1283651910 0 :Tegeen!~Tegeen@72.51.96.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283651910 0 :Tegeen!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI GUYS. ENJOY FLYING FREENODE. WE ONLY ASK THAT YOU JOIN #FREENODE :) < 1283651910 0 :Tegeen!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283652051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why spam this channel? < 1283652065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a kind-of pointless channel to spam... < 1283652068 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283652074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should spam #freenode instead, there are many more people there < 1283652085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've told #freenode. < 1283652087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advertisement tends to just piss us off, anyones. < 1283652092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. < 1283652112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems kinda pointless to spam Freenode in general, really. < 1283652121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm up to level 10! < 1283652126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to spam about #freenode in particukar... < 1283652237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a confession to make. I am actually a spammer. < 1283652248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came in here to spam PSOX related articles < 1283652252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: uhh < 1283652255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: lol < 1283652260 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX, how does THAT work? < 1283652269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, too, have a confession. < 1283652276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am actually a Juggalo. < 1283652305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you see, I am a time-travelling spammer < 1283652331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Within 5 years, PSOX will be a hugely successful commercial product, and I will use this channel as free labor. < 1283652342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my goal is to get all the minds here primed for that event. < 1283652370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to help me magnetize cpressey? < 1283652372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not going well. < 1283652458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they did < 1283652458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HI GUYS. ENJOY FLYING FREENODE. WE ONLY ASK THAT YOU JOIN #FREENODE :) < 1283652463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in #freenode < 1283652473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... confusing < 1283652522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, by "move along", do they mean leave? < 1283652525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just don't talk? < 1283652550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know who they are talking to. < 1283652554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's +z, as they've said. < 1283652556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you see my messages? < 1283652559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283652586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: #freenode are kind of assholes. Scratch the "kind of". < 1283652631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like me concluding that LambdaMOO is anti-documentation based on one person... oh wait < 1283652637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did conclude that. Maybe we're both wrong < 1283652757 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LambdaMOO! < 1283652811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moos at cpressey  < 1283652832 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283652939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moos at the Firefox plugin < 1283652993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what firefox plugin? < 1283653007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, add-on < 1283653061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what add-on? < 1283653141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your goal to get me to say the name? Because I would have said it eventually if I didn't realize that that was your goal < 1283653298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1283653621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, do you mind if I ping you < 1283653622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283653642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have I been acting drunk today? < 1283653690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.thejit.org/wp-content/exp/exp-canvas/index.html < 1283653696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: caffeine? < 1283653711 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi. < 1283653723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had caffeine this past week, but none today < 1283653727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why? < 1283653782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely. < 1283653939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The smallest movement a computer mouse can detect is referred to as a "mickey"]] < 1283653942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I so dearly hope this is true. < 1283654208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have read about that too, about the "mickey" < 1283654268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slips Sgeo a mickey < 1283654739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/files/aasia/01.jpg SAM HUGHES???? < 1283654768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are going to read Fine Structure sometime before you die, right? < 1283654777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283654778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the ?s < 1283654821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a picture of him before < 1283654824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I remmeber < 1283654847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7306696114058163464 < 1283655518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Tubular Bells is a weirder song than I thought. < 1283655521 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mandolin!" < 1283655639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Song? It's 48:57 long! < 1283655811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I was listening to, which claimed to be the original, was 8:07. Five minutes before there are any actual tubular bells, too. < 1283655822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8l5fthffiE < 1283655950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that when I talk about my dad, I only talk about bad stuff. I never talk about the ok stuff, or the funny stuff < 1283656040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That tears it. There is NO WAY you will get me to believe you aren't drunk. < 1283656060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throughout the whole day? < 1283656070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's possible... < 1283656187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anyway, I seem to have a PL-{GOTO} parser, written in Parsec, now. < 1283656187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, if I ever did get drunk, I'd try to make sure I'd lock out my computer access < 1283656197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good plan. < 1283656213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't need to end up deleting all muy backupkless files < 1283656228 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-with-complete-mamas-family-video-library-never,1592/ < 1283656248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't need to end up deleting all muy backupkless files < 1283656250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're drunk. < 1283656270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of typos? Or because I think it's a thing I'd do if I were drunk? < 1283656455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I DID STAGE 60 HAHAHA < 1283656457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the typos < 1283656503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. THe quick brown fox jumos over the lazy dog. The quick brown fix jumps over the lazy dog. < 1283656518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TH is a typical typo for me anywyas < 1283656540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist at alise < 1283656619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I _am_ drunk, maybe my body's weirdly producing (extra?) alcohol for some reason < 1283656624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should see a doctor < 1283656783 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/index.php < 1283656783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uhh ... no ... < 1283656800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: AROS' mascot has always disturbed me. < 1283656800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as far as I know, I have not imbibed alcohol today < 1283656814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You aren't drunk. At least not on alcohol. < 1283656825 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I concur. < 1283656842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that alise is a flip-flopper < 1283656852 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not a fan of having to run it under VirtualBox. < 1283656857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You said it yourself. < 1283656861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Why do you have to? < 1283656871 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because you have to. It seems. < 1283656875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1283656877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to? < 1283656880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware or another VM? < 1283656883 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could install it on the physical machine. < 1283656895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they had me thinking it was like WINE. < 1283656908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, I've never actually *run* WINE... < 1283656934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll live with UAE for now. Workbench 1.3 forever! Woo! < 1283656950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: WinUAE ftw < 1283656958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UAE? < 1283657017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: United Arab Emirates < 1283657162 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1283657162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1283657180 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Hey! < 1283657187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sup < 1283657214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok! yo! < 1283657216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the set of all species, are there subsets that are cartesian products of sets of cardinality > 1 < 1283657219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yes. < 1283657225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: In two years you owe me £50, bitch. < 1283657239 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is it trivially true? < 1283657262 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283657267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: only in a universe of 6 < 1283657279 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let's say at least cardinality 3, and at least 2 sets < 1283657320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what's sup is i can't sleep < 1283657360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university starts in a few days, so my brain is on speed < 1283657406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: why have you been so absenttt? < 1283657431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was in scotland for a week or more, and i've been working and stuff < 1283657446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you've been away for months < 1283657449 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will probably be absent in the near future, too, because of the university thing < 1283657452 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh have i < 1283657454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGRAJAG! < 1283657458 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i worked for months < 1283657482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAGGGRAAAJJJAAAAGGGG < 1283657493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I need to scream for some reason < 1283657499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been there < 1283657509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm hungry < 1283657516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you drunk at a public place today < 1283657529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1283657529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: anyway start coming here more we're all cool now although AnMaster is now Vorpal so watch out < 1283657540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i said that because Sgeo has been acting drunk all day < 1283657542 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal?!? < 1283657545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't see that coming < 1283657559 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283657590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured he just acted drunk (for a Sgeo) for three lines < 1283657602 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you saw right through it < 1283657616 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because u so smart < 1283657631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklofok < 1283657633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember DOT ACTION 2 < 1283657643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how did you learn about Dot Action 2? < 1283657654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: clicking random on dagobah.biz lot < 1283657657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a lot < 1283657660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1283657662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT TILL MONDAY TO GET LECTURE NOTES :(( < 1283657666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dagobah.biz lot/dagobah.biz a lot/ < 1283657671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i may remember it < 1283657678 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that trivial game right < 1283657680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes go there, but few things from it really stand out < 1283657684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, trivial at first game < 1283657685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes, which you played up to at least stage 98 < 1283657688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: get playing again < 1283657693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm up to 64 < 1283657705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well right, the few levels after 100 were hard according to fizzie, iirc < 1283657728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't need to put the code for the bonus levels in? < 1283657730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1283657732 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some were hard according to alise, but... < 1283657732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 was easy < 1283657740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i'm a lot better at it now :P < 1283657745 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you < 1283657752 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M ALSO < 1283657758 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well too < 1283657764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: although me and another have been destroying our thumbs doing 60 (cpressey merely believes it is impossible) < 1283657775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does "You didn't need to put the code for the bonus levels in?" mean < 1283657786 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not impossible exactly, just beyond my own ability. That is some insane shit right there. < 1283657786 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never tried the bonus levels < 1283657798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought 101-108 were save code only < 1283657804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not actually achievable without it < 1283657806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283657816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Sgeo thinks that since 101-108 appear in a separate menu, they absolutely cannot appear after 100 and it isn't cheating to play them before the others < 1283657823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not cheating, but not in-order play) < 1283657908 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't get it, was Sgeo surprised that i managed to play the game without first playing the bonus levels? < 1283657921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no, he thought you completed level 100 < 1283657923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unlocked the save codes < 1283657929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which conflicts with his ardent, unjustified beliefs about reality < 1283657946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, " oklofok: yes, which you played up to at least stage 98". < 1283657957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Sgeo) < 1283657958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283657960 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1283657987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i finished it, the last levels took ages to finish < 1283658016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which doesn't really imply hard imo) < 1283658097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`I may ebed to go to sleep soon < 1283658101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm incredibl tired < 1283658106 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1283658114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how apropos < 1283658122 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: alise'S thoughts exactly < 1283658129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1283658142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is laugujing like a maniac < 1283658149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thinks typoing is hilarious < 1283658158 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what was that staircase saying < 1283658177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoing is a serious thing < 1283658189 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what was that ... < 1283658196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what i'm saying is that your drink was probably spiked. < 1283658199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was such a drink. < 1283658206 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1283658209 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you meant < 1283658212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283658225 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went for a slightly more offensive meaning < 1283658226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There wasn't,, I think < 1283658242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, tellmetoellme < 1283658251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gladly < 1283658290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: okay, you have ingested /something/ today < 1283658293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do different from other days < 1283658296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat more? less? different? < 1283658312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have a chicken sandwich today, since I wasn't at school < 1283658337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1283658337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Chicken withdrawal. Yes. Could be serious. < 1283658350 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people drink, they often come to irc, because it's fun. some people seem to consider this some sort of "i'm cool cuz i'm drunk" bragging; i thought alise was doing this sort of considering; i thought the adding of "at a public place" was because people who drink with their friends are the people who brag the most about their drinking < 1283658353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had four slices of pizza this morning (or, well, afternoon, since I woke up late) < 1283658360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: we'd already confirmed he hadn't drunk < 1283658372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had four slices last night\ < 1283658374 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1283658376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pizza is not intoxicating. < 1283658383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some ingredient went bad < 1283658385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cheese, perhaps < 1283658386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm treating this as a joke < 1283658404 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treating what as a joke < 1283658407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more humorous for everyone to act like they think I am drunk < 1283658446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more humorous than what < 1283658453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm just like this when I'm tired < 1283658458 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are like what < 1283658460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, trying to seriously find something wrong < 1283658465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, drunk-acty < 1283658465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong with what? < 1283658480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklowhat < 1283658480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1283658488 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1283658496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1283658500 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm... < 1283658501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused < 1283658506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY TIME < 1283658521 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, I'll have to druink < 1283658525 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1283658537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should define something < 1283658553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define whores < 1283658568 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause whores to exist. Did I really just ype whores? < 1283658595 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't see my screen when I typed it, because a rubber hand was in the way < 1283658621 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irreducibility of shift space X: for all u, v \in B(X), uwv \in B(X) for some w, where B(X) is the language of words occurring as subwords in the points of X < 1283658636 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits oklowhat with a subword < 1283658745 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my definitions would require defining shift spaces, and i don't wanna do that because i think i've done it already < 1283658746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift spaces, dear god < 1283658759 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACES < 1283658773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: if you're doing this for acting, stop. it isn't amusing < 1283658793 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what? < 1283658794 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1283658805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift spaces are the bridge between discrete and continuous mathematics... if I am remembering correctly < 1283658812 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a bridge! < 1283658817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one of the bridges anyway < 1283658821 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you mean me? < 1283658822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1283658830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes < 1283658832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283658833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklowhat: yes < 1283658836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry oklofok < 1283658841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1283658846 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1283658850 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /nick oklopop < 1283658857 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seriously does feel giggly < 1283658861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to cpressey again, if you have a dynamical system, that is, some sort of space, and a continuous function on it < 1283658883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can, sort, of, model it using a shift space, in some cases < 1283658912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you do this is you partition the continuous space in a finite number of subsets < 1283658914 0 :oklowhat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1283658947 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for a point, you record the bi-infinite sequence of subsets it lands in, when you apply the continuous function (we assume it's invertible, makes the theory a bit prettier) < 1283658977 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives you a point in A^Z, if A is the set of those subsets partitioning the continuous space < 1283659003 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you do this for all the points in the space < 1283659011 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a subsets of A^Z < 1283659013 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subset < 1283659042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that subset turns out to be a shift space! < 1283659092 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember things like regular languages over A to describe the behaviour of those continuous functions (like, if the curve always oscillates between two of the partitions, you have (AB)*) < 1283659096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool stuff < 1283659118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, (AB)* was not the best choice, since A was already used < 1283659127 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's continuous => discrete, then we usually require that going the other way (taking a sequence in A^Z) always gives you exactly one point in the continuous space, this doesn't give you all the continuous space, usually, but it gives you a dense subset < 1283659133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if {a,b} subset A, then (ab)* < 1283659141 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi < 1283659151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, give me a tutorial someday < 1283659164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going the other way is ... much harder to think about < 1283659168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's happening already ;) < 1283659215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too tired and giggly to comprehend anything right now < 1283659221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, giggly gone < 1283659267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i graciously accept your birthday wishes < 1283659283 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: (ab)* couldn't be the language of the shift space, but Y = (ab)* + b(ab)* + (ab)*a could, needs to be closed under factors; in any case yes, that could be the language of an oscillating curve, then you just need to take all the bi-infinite words such that their subwords are in Y, and you get the shift space < 1283659300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factors = subwords < 1283659322 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i believe you have been taught this same stuff < 1283659343 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I never took a course, but I did read some interesting books, which I half-understood. < 1283659353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't wait to struggle to understand the log tomorrow < 1283659361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Smale, applications to hardware like disk drives, and stuff... < 1283659411 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't actually seen much of the discrete vs continuous stuff, a few definitions (half of which i already sort of gave), and one example of finding a markov partition (markov partition = partition where the language of the shift space happens to be of "finite type") for a space < 1283659465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift space of finite type means a bi-infinite word is in the language iff all its subwords less than N in length are in a set of allowed words < 1283659480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N and the set of allowed words definining the shift space < 1283659485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defining < 1283659492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what books < 1283659497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283659547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an uncountable infinite discreet space? A countably infinite continuous space? Or are these axiomatically tied in, or is there a theorem? < 1283659564 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, what does discrete mean? < 1283659575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So definitionally, then < 1283659587 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Gah, I don't remember all of them. The math library was my half-understood playground at one point... let me think. < 1283659597 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discreteness is defined in topology, and once you know the definition, those questions become trivial < 1283659605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use that definition < 1283659634 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"continuous space" doesn't mean anything, rigorously speaking, afaik < 1283659642 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283659648 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could mean a perfect space < 1283659664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no open set is singleton) < 1283659679 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: This was one: http://www.amazon.com/Topology-Computation-Proceedings-Smalefest/dp/0387979328 < 1283659695 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smale is a genius. < 1283659732 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many books out there, i've never even heard of that one :< < 1283659760 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: topologically speaking, a discrete space is one where every set is open < 1283659767 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is there an uncountable infinite discreet space?" < 1283659772 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let use construct one < 1283659778 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always been interested in "the topology of computation" (ill-defined as it is,) so when I saw this book I picked it up < 1283659781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take an uncountably infinite set X < 1283659821 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it the discrete topology, giving us the topological space (X, 2^X) (set of open sets is just the powerset of X, set of all subsets) < 1283659842 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then by definition it is discrete < 1283659852 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's uncountable because X is < 1283659855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: cpressey: http://i.imgur.com/iCSp3.png I WEEP < 1283659879 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you know topology? < 1283659902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only knows it as "thingy where you don't tear or fold, but stretch" < 1283659909 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that one took a little bit of thinking < 1283659935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you presumably already consumed a green? < 1283659968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, learn to work out which area is the absolutely last one you can go to < 1283659973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to do that on an earlier level < 1283659998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sounds like that might describe topology, yes < 1283660013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Only barely. < 1283660020 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it could describe linear algebra as well... < 1283660045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought linear algebra was matrixes < 1283660066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let use construct one < 1283660066 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear algebra is linear transformations, matrices are an "implementation" of those < 1283660067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA AN ERROR < 1283660071 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*us < 1283660072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283660089 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have the "it's all about stretching" understanding of topology. I now have the "it's all about limits" understanding. < 1283660124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the "there's a set and a collection of subsets that is closed under union and finite intersection, and the whole set and the empty set are in that collection" understanding < 1283660126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know very little topological math < 1283660156 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have the "topology is something cool and scary" understanding < 1283660156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I get for reading books geared towards laypeople < 1283660192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much all I've _ever_ read. Stuff geared towards laypeople < 1283660209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to actually be kind of useless for looking at finite, discrete objects, like say computer programs. You have to treat the object as being infinite or continuous in some respect, I think. < 1283660230 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think topology admits an english explanation that is intuitive, unambiguous and at all true < 1283660263 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Have you read "Counterexamples in Topology"? < 1283660268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1283660280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been planning to buy it thought because it's famous < 1283660284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1283660285 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1283660320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it entertaining even knowing very little about topology, because... well, counterexamples! < 1283660335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok is turning into not-actually-drunk me! < 1283660378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes it when people turn into people < 1283660412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, at the time I was also somewhat interested in... metric spaces? Something close to that. Something with "entourages". < 1283660430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the things with entourages are between topological spaces and metric spaces < 1283660434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are called uniform spaces < 1283660441 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it, uniform spaces. < 1283660454 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember why I was interested in them, now :) < 1283660467 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is, you can't actually say how close two things are, like in metric spaces, but you can say "these two things are as close to each other are these other two are to each other", which you can't do in a topological space < 1283660510 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that comparison in quotes there only works if you do it "in some infinite way", a bit hard to explain what that means :P < 1283660515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283660593 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't actually compare the distances; but you can like get closer to two points at the same rate, in some sense < 1283660599 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really just know the definition, if that... < 1283660675 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1283660678 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more like < 1283660687 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get closer to an infinite amount of points at the same rate? < 1283660695 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should skip the intuitive stuff < 1283660766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to wp definition < 1283660770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember < 1283660833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you'll have to direct me to some online resources < 1283660888 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hard to do, i would really just recommend going to uni :\ < 1283660903 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe i could be more helpful if you knew what you were looking for < 1283660936 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for symbolic dynamics, "symbolic dynamics and coding" is an awesome book < 1283661028 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you probably can't read past chapter 3 if you don't know linear algebra, and you probably can't read past chapter 6 unless you're willing to spend a *lot* of time filling in details < 1283661047 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i spend about 1.5 hours on a proof today) < 1283661049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spent < 1283661081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1283661127 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent about that much time getting up to speed on Parsec (parser combinator library for Haskell) < 1283661172 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm slow < 1283661178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to take both grad and undergrad courses as a grad? < 1283661214 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our university, you can do what the fuck you want < 1283661226 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably you won't get them in your degree < 1283661260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be as easy to learn math online as computer skills... < 1283661262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls < 1283661276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I took about 2 hours, and most of the day before that, trying to decide if that was what I wanted to waste my time doing this weekend, or not - so I think I'm the one who's slow here :) < 1283661280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math is, even more than computer programming, something you can practice at home < 1283661308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math is a way of thinking < 1283661313 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that sounds soooooo cheesy < 1283661317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1283661336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts uni in 9 days < 1283661349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Cheesy but true. < 1283661350 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts uni in 2 \o/ < 1283661359 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: guess what i'm taking this semester < 1283661364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been going for two weeks now < 1283661376 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lucky bastard < 1283661385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: And now I have a 4 day weekend. < 1283661397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicably, we get the day *after* labor day off as well. < 1283661430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, math should be able to fulfill my Arts & Sciences requirements < 1283661433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here < 1283661436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, this is to add to the easiness of community college classes. < 1283661439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not a science, so... < 1283661443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mmm, cheap-ass semester) < 1283661506 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you are street smart and want to learn math, you should just take some random math book and start doing exercises like crazy. i can't really make myself do that, i make up for it by being able to stare at things for a long time. < 1283661520 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you didn't guess < 1283661522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"street smart"? < 1283661541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i thought if i say smart, you interpret it as "if you're already good at math" < 1283661573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good in the sense that I comprehend it well.. at least, I think I do. < 1283661582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"have common sense" < 1283661590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ... and want to < 1283661592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember nothing that I learned that's more advanced than the basics taught in Calc the Easy Way < 1283661605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION distrusts common sense < 1283661641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I know what you mean < 1283661642 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hint: you could guess, others couldn't < 1283661684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK WHY DID MY IME STOP WORKING < 1283661708 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: calc the easy way sounds like a horrible idea < 1283661708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart terminal, all is well. < 1283661714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: 日本語? < 1283661721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes that his neighbors can't hear the sounds coming from his computer < 1283661725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, o.O howso? < 1283661729 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hai < 1283661735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying I massively screwed myself over? < 1283661745 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: i didn't start yet) < 1283661793 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance i don't actually know what you said :D < 1283661803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Japanese". < 1283661809 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know any katakana or kanji, memorized all hiragana tho < 1283661824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Also: any idea what the cirriculum for that class is like? < 1283661834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curriculum, I mean. < 1283661839 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i know the book < 1283661840 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... < 1283661846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hello? < 1283661849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of awful Japanese programs. I'd like to see a good one. < 1283661867 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrated course in elementary japanese < 1283661871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283661872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283661880 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1283661892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genki? < 1283661895 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh sorry < 1283661899 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1283661900 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283661901 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283661901 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283661902 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283661902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite slow. < 1283661919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i noticed < 1283661934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than most other programs, though. < 1283661936 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really all i care about is that i now have something to memorize with brain full of university energy < 1283661947 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: err, i'm not saying you screwed yourself over < 1283661972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(among other things, it *doesn't freaking have you use rômasì for long*) < 1283661979 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283661996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but calculus is something that i encourage everyone to learn as hard a way as possible < 1283662000 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, oerjan < 1283662002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1283662038 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: romasi = english alph? < 1283662045 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, equivalents of < 1283662059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: "Roman letters", literal translation. < 1283662083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, without the diacritics that is completely incomprehensible. < 1283662100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rōmaji in the "normal" Hepburn romanisation, BTW) < 1283662125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aaaand rômazi in Nihonsiki and Kunreisiki) < 1283662136 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait is the s voiced or not < 1283662154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voiced. < 1283662173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, but is it j or z :D < 1283662198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hepburn romanisation is the one that is related with English pronounciation. < 1283662223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: COMM... wait, i already did that. FASC... darn, did that too. PIRATE! < 1283662223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hiragana, that's ろーまじ. < 1283662230 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming japanese = lojban, shi = c, j = j, s = s, z = z < 1283662239 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shi/sh/ < 1283662248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Close. < 1283662270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not precise, but not off by much. < 1283662278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't actually heard any japanese after learning any of it < 1283662314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had a microphone so I could record myself. As it is, I'll have to find a good example. < 1283662316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because i started today and i don't watch anime) < 1283662342 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a pizza party with a pony parade! < 1283662367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will probably be an interesting experience, because japanese is the first language i'm actually going to try to learn < 1283662391 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else i've learned by accident < 1283662399 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the classroom) < 1283662412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: a pizza party with a pony parade is no basis for a system of government < 1283662440 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew how to make hiragana < 1283662444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizzapartyocracy < 1283662447 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then me and pikhq could be annoying together < 1283662477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that FRC round with -ocracy where the least fit governed? < 1283662478 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohayoo gozaimasu! < 1283662519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR7RS90NmaM&feature=related Here, have something about a Japanese speech contest. < 1283662546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the first thing I found that was both natural and relatively simple to listen to. < 1283662555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sleeps on #esoteric < 1283662627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i hear americaDJIN? < 1283662631 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean D < 1283662637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pushes Sgeo off < 1283662658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283662668 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck didn't i realize that's the natural thing to mean < 1283662672 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn lojban < 1283662673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if his first introduction to nomic was FRC < 1283662694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, lojban uses j like that. < 1283662722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember how I found FRC: Someone had a link about learning to play 4-dimensional scrabble < 1283662725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRC is almost not a nomic < 1283662767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that that link was on a nomic related page. If so, I'm still kost < 1283662768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost < 1283662804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's just administrated by a nomic, and is a nomic-esque game < 1283662817 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283662896 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's the clip about btw, idgi :D < 1283662958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRC is a nomic, but just a very weak one < 1283662995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Starts with a short blurb on the speaker, and then it's the guy's speech about his various interactions in Japan. Kinda mundane. < 1283663008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know. It's a speech contest for learners of Japanese. Boring shit. < 1283663023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it wasn't a nomic < 1283663031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just close to not a nomic < 1283663074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just the best example of how clearly spoken Japanese *sounds* like that I could find on short notice is all. < 1283663109 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes just out of curiosity < 1283663122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW, I should note: all the Japanese in there was in fairly clear Standard Japanese, and as such would sound "unaccented") < 1283663139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: "They do things different in Japan!" < 1283663144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring ass shit. < 1283663149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1283663194 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make out america and japan, and ippon :D < 1283663208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay a bit more < 1283663247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only somewhat more interesting than your typical textbook adventures of John Smith and Ichirô Tanaka seeing temples and eating sushi. < 1283663260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumisu < 1283663285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. Jōn Sumisu and Ichirō Tanaka. < 1283663417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget mearii < 1283663426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who could forget? < 1283663436 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mearii san wa amerikajin desu < 1283663472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desu desu desu < 1283663516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1283663523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck mentioned in #haskell < 1283663535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the rules! < 1283663537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a swig < 1283663554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: do you have a walkthrough for 64? >__> < 1283663555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai, mearī san kà hèikoku kara ki'ta no de, nihonkò tiȳo'to musùkasī tà to omo'teiru ne'. < 1283663580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ketò sa, hètu ni musùkasikunai sè. < 1283663598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves non-standard romanisation < 1283663669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no < 1283663700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: darn < 1283663703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283663723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION は不標準なローマ字が大好きだ。 < 1283663723 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost me at first "ka" < 1283663742 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again at "heikoku":D < 1283663744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*" :D < 1283663750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a swig of water < 1283663751 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should continue this after a few lessons < 1283663770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: "Yeah, because Mary came from America, she thinks that Japanese is hard, y'know? But really, it's not all that hard." < 1283663815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "k "because" < 1283663822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"k" < 1283663825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: BTW, the ` diacritic after a consonant is the ゙ in kana. < 1283663830 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1283663832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ka du sei < 1283663843 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i'm used to seeing as "ga" < 1283663848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in pikhq-romanisation) < 1283663877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the - over a letter is the katakana ー, which elongates a vowel. < 1283663882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283663887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, I did it all wrong. < 1283663897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be ^. < 1283663903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- should be the small kana indicator. < 1283663914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even do it right. XD < 1283663915 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kana the same as hiragana < 1283663925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiragana is one of two forms of kana. < 1283663926 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1283663930 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1283663952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, lemme just stick that in Hiragana. < 1283664001 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1283664023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :はい、 めありい さん が べいこく から きたので、にほんご ちょっと むずかしい と 思っている ねっ。 < 1283664036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm rather slow, but let's see < 1283664042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :けど さ、 べつに むずかしくない ぜ。 < 1283664065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in normal Japanese: (:P) < 1283664082 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also those are rather different-looking hiragana than the ones i've seen, so i'm even slower < 1283664096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1283664104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/思っている/おもっている/ < 1283664106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about that. < 1283664109 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly they are smaller :P < 1283664118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :はい、メアリーさんが米国から来たので、日本語がちょっと難しいと思っているねっ。 < 1283664130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :けどさ、別に難しくないぜ。 < 1283664326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so okay < 1283664331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283664339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i got to the part you corrected) < 1283664341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:D) < 1283664612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283664627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i read it without understanding it. < 1283664737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project! Term-rewriting language with strict typing. Describe the type system with rewriting rules! < 1283664815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sii)(sii) < 1283664850 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to sleep again -> < 1283664976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have come down with a cold! < 1283664978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitching! < 1283665009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bitching cold, the worst kind < 1283665127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to get some cold medicine and munch. < 1283665413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Project! Term-rewriting language with strict typing. Describe the type system with rewriting rules! < 1283665414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this < 1283665416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1283665437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type system got terminally rewritten < 1283665500 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rho was sort of supposed to have this in a nasty unclear way. < 1283665543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the problem is, what is typed? < 1283665545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no functions < 1283665548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to imagine what you type < 1283665582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine had functions initially being (forall a, b, c, ... a|(a,b)|(a,b,c)|... -> forall r, r) < 1283665583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of thing < 1283665586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they got refined gradually < 1283665633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to breath again dammi < 1283665635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1283665669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breathing is _so_ last millennium < 1283665727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if "... is _so_ last ..." is _so_ last millennium < 1283665941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nö, büt yöü nëëd tö mäkë ït mörë mëtäl. < 1283665963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ö KÄY < 1283666029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283666538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: CHALLENGE: COMPLETE XJUMP < 1283666568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the graph of e^xi just a circle? < 1283666611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283666623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, Wolfram alpha has the real and imaginary parts be sin-like < 1283666637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's kind of obvious >.> < 1283666645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real is cos, imag is sine < 1283666664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it look on a nice 3d graph, though? < 1283666731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dame.dyndns.org/misc/xjump/ < 1283666738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who can get 100 on this is a god. < 1283666738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...like a spiral? < 1283666755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*helix < 1283666770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why are you awake? < 1283666794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why shouldn't I be? < 1283666805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's late at night for you? < 1283666835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1283667089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1283667109 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283667112 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283667148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283667150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell are YOU < 1283667151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot this channel existed! until somebody randomly mentioned miss piggy. < 1283667154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit nosebleed < 1283667164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah yes, the banned one. < 1283667194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hi lament < 1283667197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's banned? < 1283667200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless oerjan unbanned (s)h/it; I forget < 1283667213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, she spammed "FUCK YOU" for about 50 lines < 1283667217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283667221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not currently banned, no < 1283667230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after showing clear signs of utter mental insanity several times before and basically freaking out on everyone else < 1283667238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were at the 2 breakdowns/day stage < 1283667246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: DON'T SAY SHE SHE'LL GET ANGRY < 1283667248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament!!!! < 1283667254 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey!!!!! < 1283667258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(she yelled at me and augur for PRESUMING HER GENDER) < 1283667265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament cpressey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1283667328 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I've been wondering where you were... < 1283667355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins mentally playing that song from Falcon's Eye < 1283667385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfgsdfgojdifgoisfdjg it's 6am < 1283667388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: after getting a job as a programmer, i lost all interest in programming < 1283667393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why have you played falcon's eye? < 1283667400 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric or not < 1283667401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Good grief. I know what that's like < 1283667405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't [much] < 1283667416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, stop trying to convince me that alise is right < 1283667424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's a good thing that nobody talks about programming languages here, then < 1283667430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1283667435 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283667436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go look for my phone < 1283667442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: both you and oklofok came back on the same day < 1283667443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a delight < 1283667451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's mostly about Japanese and how Sgeo is drunk. < 1283667458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a dildo that smells like jones strawberry lime soda. just fyi. < 1283667469 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. < 1283667469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1283667474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the gay sex is back! < 1283667475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the sex. < 1283667479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And augur's gay. < 1283667494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain, I hypothesise that we are, in fact, going BACKWARDS through the fourth dimension... that is to say, time. < 1283667519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we do not take action soon, we will find ourselves in a time when there IS no #esoteric, and the process will be irreversible. < 1283667539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 6am, so I'm talking schizophrenically. Just like old times ... < 1283667547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the direction of decreasing entropy? sounds pretty nice < 1283667578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we established that I'm not actually drunk? < 1283667583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter how drunk I may seem < 1283667598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yes... but increasing... PRIMITIVENESS. < 1283667633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we can go back before PHP was invented. Or before X was invented < 1283667640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop these atrocities from being committed < 1283667660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain! I'm picking up unusual sensor readings! It appears that, as our "bubble" of #esoteric is travelling forwards in time compared to the backwards flow of outside the bubble -- otherwise, we would experience things as normal, both sides being switched -- we are ADDING entropy, yet as entropy OUTSIDE the channel is decreasing, there is nowhere for it to go! < 1283667663 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm trying to compile C code under Amiga Workbench 1.3. That has to count for something. < 1283667675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate that entropy will take over our channel entirely in... 3.6 hours. < 1283667684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shall we do, Captain?!?!?!?!?! < 1283667747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may appear like a shocking and unexpected suggestion to you, but if the polarity of entropy is currently the wrong way... < 1283667799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you suggesting, Number One? < 1283667809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pretend the captain said that. Whoever e is.) < 1283667827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might then try to reverse the polarity. < 1283667883 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: At one time, you implemented Thue in Javascript -- is this true? < 1283667889 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283667958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310js_/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.js < 1283667978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: What license can I consider this code to be under? < 1283667982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It could work. However, there has been an overload in the temporal dynamics systems, and the entropy explosion would be immense. We would have to exit the bubble, exposing ourselves to high levels of positron radiation. < 1283667983 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the corresponding .html < 1283667984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your time-traveling powers < 1283667990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hull would likely collapse. < 1283668016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you could have written technobabble for Voyager! < 1283668017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1283668035 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: er, public domain i suppose < 1283668041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1283668048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to pay me $10000000000 to use it < 1283668056 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP! < 1283668061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well. < 1283668067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe if we _also_ reverse parity, switching matter and antimatter. this might be achieved by taking a detour through a mirror dimension. < 1283668074 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *think* I have $10000000000... < 1283668091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "It is made of anti-time. And it is giving off anti-time radiation." < 1283668093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I suspect I'd be a lot happier, if I did. < 1283668117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Grapple with the Terran Empire? But the production team forgot to switch the main titles! < 1283668192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: money can't buy happiness < 1283668231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but if we do it _before_ reversing polarity, while entropy is still decreasing - then they would actually appear to be trying to help us. in a weird way. < 1283668232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can buy an awful lot of booze and hookers! < 1283668234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because after the last guy to use my Thue interpreter paid me $10000000000, i'm not really any happier < 1283668260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Removing fatal phaser shots from our cold, dead bodies! Interesting. < 1283668269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just wait for someone to claim to be the captain and give it the go-ahead. < 1283668280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283668357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo! Passed level 10! < 1283668398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may need to charge -$10 dollars for users of PSOX < 1283668412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, passed level 12 now. < 1283668476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: how many bits is the number in which that usage charge is stored? and is it signed or unsigned? < 1283668513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To compile C code on the Amiga, you need headers for the AmigaOS API. They're not freely distributable, but you can recreate them from the "FD" files that ship with AmigaBASIC, with the help of a utlity program called FixFD which appears on Fred Fish disk #183. < 1283668530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1283668596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1283668600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283668838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Dare I ask -- what language(s) are you programming in, in your job? < 1283668873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objc++ at the moment < 1283668898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coolest thing i did recently was try to debug postscript < 1283668951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know C++, and I know /of/ ObjC, but I didn't know they could be... combined. But I know that Postscript is much cooler than both :) < 1283669002 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just combined the natural way < 1283669015 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting language has two completely separate object systems < 1283669036 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two separate exception handling systems, even two boolean types (bool and BOOL) < 1283669120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! The joy! < 1283669165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes C is used, or C++, or Objective C, or even Objective C++. But I prefer Enhanced CWEB (compiling in C mode). There is also D, and is there Objective D++? < 1283669168 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not so bad in practice < 1283669211 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just parts of code are written in straight c++, and parts in objc, and interfacing them is easy < 1283669217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be sometimes useful to mix things from different program languages < 1283669413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes it cannot be done, using the normal way..... I have sometimes found myself wanting to use GOTO in program languages that doesn't have it, use some features of Forth in other programming langauges, and even once INTERCAL stuff! < 1283669479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had sort of heard the point of D was to get _rid_ of C++'s object system < 1283669489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well one point at least) < 1283669506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I think that was one point, there are others, too. < 1283669521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means Objective D++ makes no sense < 1283669570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I know, but I am a bit crazy and I think of crazy ideas sometimes < 1283669590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1283669592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, Enhanced CWEB is good enough for these kind of things, Objective C++ is not needed < 1283669611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong about FixFd. I think the header files it creates are for assembly-language programs. :/ But I know I've done this before, there is a tool out there somewhere that can do it. < 1283669612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have nothing against if someone else wants to use a different program language < 1283669676 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, none of you have opinion about TeXnicard, because you only use LaTeX? Is that correct? < 1283669732 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even use LaTeX. < 1283669736 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At best, I use HTML. < 1283669750 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With things like a ≡ b &union; c. < 1283669862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283669912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For simple on-screen formatting, HTML works OK. And even for more complicated interactive stuff, HTML can be used (but it should not be overused!). HTML files can be printed as well. But TeX is more better, for many things! < 1283669935 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a "Munching Squares" program for the Amiga! < 1283669957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You probably can, they are generally simple programs and can be found for various systems < 1283670006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I used LaTeX a long time ago. With the AMS extensions (AMSLaTeX?) It was a huge pain to set up on the OS I was using at the time (FreeBSD).\ < 1283670104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make TeXnicard because there are many things about Magic Set Editor which I do not like. < 1283670157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, TeXnicard can be seen as one alternative program that can be used for a similar function. < 1283670192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard allows you to combine TeX, METAFONT, Forth, ImageMagick, and WEB. < 1283670664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a program, it is the computer's job to automate everything but it is the user's job to think for themself. This is contrary to many modern programs, in which the computer tries to do both jobs, which isn't very good in my opinion. < 1283671009 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283671114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think the thing that translates .FD -> .h is called "LibTool", on Fish Disk #393. But, it's late, I could be wrong. < 1283671169 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm sure I'm the only one who cares :D < 1283671221 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a hankerin' to be buildin' me some C programs on an operating system that's been obsolete for 15 years! < 1283671331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if there were any Forths for the Amiga, on those Fish disks? < 1283671450 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh! False appeared on Fred Fish Disk #885! I did not know that. < 1283671742 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283671753 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283671761 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283672956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BytePusher is not pure non-arithmetic, because addition is still required to execute an instruction. < 1283673554 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283673599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283673600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283673698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283673706 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283674072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283674446 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283675222 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283675403 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283675420 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283675479 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283675699 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283675880 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283676914 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283677073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283677538 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283678937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283679447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if for all acts of pedantry there exists a Wikipedian who will try to put it into force < 1283679496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, agree? < 1283679497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i guess the big well that's not too bad but < 1283679524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take that as a "yes". < 1283680490 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283680516 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283681319 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283681321 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283681597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283681711 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283681959 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283682322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283682800 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283683944 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283685427 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my dream, alise and cpressey sent me a postcard that was an invite to come explore the "natural hoovers" of another universe (natural hoover being a technical term for an inverse volcano) < 1283686341 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283687069 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283687172 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283687242 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283687573 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1283687824 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283688745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, rather unusual dream < 1283688770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i got 130 < 1283688896 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1283689168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there were less unusual elements, like things falling in the ocean and me having to dive quickly to catch the important items < 1283689189 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that means i'm searching for long lost love < 1283689203 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it means you're turning batshit insane < 1283689246 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i got the postcard, the first thing i said was "what the fuck, i have to pay a receiver's fee?!?" < 1283689272 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was recently in scotland, where phones start doing that) < 1283689277 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my sister rebooted my computer trying to turn on the screens, so I'm missing some history, like the actual description of the dream) < 1283689280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that one was obvious) < 1283689287 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also how SMS:es work in the US < 1283689301 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8| < 1283689307 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what people can just make you pay < 1283689315 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, as I understand it's free to send them, but it costs to receive them < 1283689327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do they have the option of not receiving them < 1283689347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean otherwise if you give someone your phone number, they can just make you pay millions of dollars for fun < 1283689360 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they have to, it'd be crazy otherwise < 1283689384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then again i heard all americanos are stupids so? < 1283689458 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously... so maybe no-one's figured out how to exploit it yet < 1283689477 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain how a system like that still works < 1283690097 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283690116 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283690932 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yrep < 1283691443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } else if (c != KEY_VIEW); < 1283691443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto gotkey; < 1283691446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1283691464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that is obfuscated, rather than buggy < 1283693255 0 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283693566 0 :SimonRC_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SimonRC < 1283693572 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283694130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at the darths & droids punchline < 1283694341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694342 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694343 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694345 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694346 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694346 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1283694353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it btw? < 1283694372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: are you trying to get banned? < 1283694386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?!? < 1283694477 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: my solution to megavideo's time limit: connect via uni < 1283696602 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E397A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283699011 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283699255 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-119-166.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283699332 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skoml < 1283699642 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-136.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1283699745 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283700163 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283700163 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283700432 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283701011 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate circuit analysis < 1283701151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of circuit analysis < 1283701176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind where you solve 15 variable equations manually < 1283701190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm a deity < 1283701274 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283701277 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283701367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god of extreme overconfidence < 1283701646 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283702102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:16 BytePusher is not pure non-arithmetic, because addition is still required to execute an instruction. < 1283702104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1283702252 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: We didn't want to keep the exquisite pleasures of these natural hoovers all to ourselves! < 1283702291 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: (Don't tell him about how my brother is in the natural hoover tourism trade.) < 1283702323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W h a t < 1283702348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283702376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: don't worry about that, natural hoovers suck something terrible < 1283702404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know what they suck < 1283702466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of rocks and the occasional tourist, i think < 1283702643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283703011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling for natural hoover gives a page about tornados http://82sluggowin.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/if-you-cannot-find-shelter-lay-face-down-in-a-ditch-and-cover-your-head-with-your-hands/ < 1283703181 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283703506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1283703757 0 :cpressey!~catseye@adsl-99-92-186-206.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283704054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an idiot. Here I am going through all these contortions to find heirloom AmigaOS API header files, when if all I'm going to do is compile ANSI C sources on the platform, I shouldn't need them! < 1283704081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT TORNADO WARNING! < 1283704097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make an awesome meme < 1283704170 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-43-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283704286 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@modemcable207.154-59-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283704373 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283704784 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283705020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters < 1283705058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1283705060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: BTW: good work on learning hiragana before the class starts. That alone gets rid of most of the egregious pronunciation errors. < 1283705066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sick is all. < 1283705123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates how some courses use nothing but rômasì. < 1283705135 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283705192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is s pronounced as English j? < 1283705201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like sh, or? < 1283705242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The ` diacritic notes that the "si" mora is voiced. And because the "si" mora is pronounced more like "shi", the voiced version is more like "ji". < 1283705279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jit," said Shon. < 1283705285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is, of course, all in non-standard romanisation. One which follows Japanese orthography a bit closer than is needed. :P < 1283705334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(among other things, it makes conjugations and common pronunciation changes in words significantly easier than standard romanisation schemes.) < 1283705360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... At the expense of being completely unuseful to the unwashed masses) < 1283705501 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-91.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283705504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ROMANISE THIS: ドット新死エディション < 1283705539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tò'to sinn si etèīsiȳonn < 1283705556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do the _'d letters show as sans here >_< < 1283705558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid font < 1283705567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And bigger too) < 1283705575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(And bigger, too) < 1283706034 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totto new death edition? < 1283706062 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As much as I love C, its structures suck. < 1283706062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: "Dot -- Super Death Edition". < 1283706080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, wait, I've got compose. < 1283706089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dot — Super Death Edition" < 1283706107 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows as a box < 1283706122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: You fail at Unicode. < 1283706129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't even display English text. < 1283706178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1283706193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Dot — Super Death Edition” < 1283706194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1283706216 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 boxes now < 1283706229 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what symbols are you using? < 1283706297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right quotation mark, em dash, left quotation mark. < 1283706347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, even *I* can see *em dashes*. < 1283706364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, L and R quotation marks look the same to me :/ < 1283706375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's just a font matter. < 1283706443 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good old fixedsys < 1283706449 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283706456 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: ouch < 1283706462 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memories < 1283706574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Make it stop. < 1283706807 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283706813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: die < 1283706854 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-181.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283707001 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W00T < 1283707011 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just build 'cat' under AmigaOS 1.3 < 1283707015 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*built < 1283707046 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I needed to build a fully profiled version because I haven't yet found a non-profiling-enabled amiga13.lib) < 1283707068 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with fixedsys? < 1283707098 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like twice as good as any version of courier new < 1283707114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's ... not saying ... much ... ... anything ... < 1283707225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consolas <3 < 1283707279 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: might be an interesting choice yeah < 1283707397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you still have everything in that theme < 1283707402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white on black consolas < 1283707423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283707435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. computer broked so it went as i mentioned. < 1283707441 0 :kareem!~shahkarim@202.142.174.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283707465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was just hoping the timeline was restored :'( < 1283707476 0 :kareem!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283707485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1283707499 0 :kareem!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how r u < 1283707507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so alise did you get those new wishing stones and witch wands we were talking about for our esoterica evening < 1283707516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSOLUTELY < 1283707521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sacrificed ALL the goats. < 1283707525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. Every single one. < 1283707531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm < 1283707532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kareem: in case you can't tell, we're talking about programming. hello. < 1283707543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...didn't we talk about doing that TOGETHER < 1283707567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were going to find the holy human sacrifice... < 1283707598 0 :kareem!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283708049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drat, I didn't even get a chance to tell him that DICE isn't handling the insanity that is RUBE.c very well < 1283708106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! GURU < 1283708178 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what if you scared off someone who _was_ interested in esoteric programming languages? < 1283708184 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I should blame oklopol < 1283708201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have too many people here already < 1283708216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should be banned < 1283708218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1283708218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: who cares < 1283708242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes let's ban oklopol < 1283708261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would teach me to speak crapshit < 1283708275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From somewhere, don't remember where: "Of course non-English speakers often want special characters. The problem is there are too many of them (characters, not non-English speakers)." < 1283708388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's plenty of special characters in English, you naïve fool. < 1283708432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do English speakers really *want* them? < 1283708479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some do. < 1283708503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "special" < 1283708562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, in the context of the original quote "special" would mean "non-ASCII"; but really, I don't remember where it was from. < 1283708758 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283708933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The café was staffed by naïve fools; I had no hope of gaining their coöperation. < 1283709229 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283709239 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once again, I am an idiot. "Note that you may compile 1.3 programs with the 2.0 amiga.lib as long as you avoid 2.0-specific calls." < 1283709246 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once again, I am an idiot. "Note that you may compile 1.3 programs with the 2.0 amiga.lib as long as you avoid 2.0-specific calls." < 1283709267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an idiot a third time for repeating myself. < 1283709413 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. Dice is still generating assembly which it cannot itself assemble. < 1283709963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the signal value in dBm for wlan networks is always negative isn't it? < 1283709981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: -60 dBm or similar < 1283710072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did it claim 4dBm for one network in the list of networks... in iwlist scanning output that is. Presumably a fluke since doing a second scan showed a more usual value < 1283710113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's helpful table has "-10 to -30 dBm" as a typical maximum for wifi. 0 dBm would mean 1 mW of power; the same table lists that as the typical power of Bluetooth radio at 1 m distance. < 1283710135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, doing a second scan had it at -88 dBm < 1283710137 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, bef.c and maentw.c-with-tweaks compile, but that's not much of a joy since they were originally developed under dice) < 1283710171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 4 dBm seems rather unlikely < 1283710238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, especially if it's at -88 dBm "normally". < 1283710349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the noise ratio seems strange too, was at -40 dBm at that point, which is odd, since my card doesn't report the noise... < 1283710368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it always report -127 dBm for the noise) < 1283710373 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except here it seems) < 1283710416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t, sally2c compiles! Getting it to run, and seeing if the code it generates compiles too, is another matter... < 1283710430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, is sally some esolang? < 1283710455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no. God forbid I be on-topic here. < 1283710463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD < 1283710470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so what is sally2c then < 1283710496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a compiler for a language I designed in the late 90's < 1283710505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you designed a non-esolang? < 1283710536 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1283710564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that about it not being an esolang was a joke then? < 1283710579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phone's /proc/net/wireless lists -46 and -95 (presumably dBm) for "level" and "noise" when the phone's ~1.5 m from the wlan access point. < 1283710599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey never meant any of his languages to be esolangs, they were just ahead of their time. that's why, this time, cpressey waited 20 years before making a compiler < 1283710610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as < 1283710612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too close will cause problems too iirc < 1283710625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and, how good is the built in antenna? < 1283710640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it isn't exactly "late 2010's" yet but anyway < 1283710654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :judging from the quality of wlan on other phones, it would be rather bad < 1283710657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe cpressey is just one decade smarter than the rest of us < 1283710693 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I design languages. Some of them are indisputably esoteric. Some of them are not indisputably so. < 1283710711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No clue, but from anecdotal evidence, I think it gets better wlan reception than my iBook. And definitely better than one PCMCIA wlan card, but then again that was one pretty horrible card. < 1283710712 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the compiler for Sally back in the 90's too, but I'm only now trying to compile it for the Amiga. < 1283710733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm okay. < 1283710759 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Maybe I'm kind of like Sousa, who meant all of his marches to be romantic love songs, but they turned out to be... marches < 1283710763 0 :olsner!~sal@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283710782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not sure about ibooks but based on casual observation macbooks tend to have rather good built in wlan. Same for thinkpads as well. < 1283710856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: maybe he had never been in love < 1283710858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Wait, does LambdaMOO have anything to do with functional programming? Or did they put "Lambda" in the name for no reason? < 1283710905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But Sally is crap! < 1283710905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1283710916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nothing to do with FP as far as I know. < 1283710921 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I looked at the language. Not sure if you cna write map in it. It's much more like a .. Self thing than functional < 1283710927 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prototype-based < 1283710952 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LambdaMOO is a specific moo < 1283710954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a language < 1283711125 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah yeah < 1283711154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's written in C, is my main constraint. Apparent rube.c is too complex to be compiled by dice. < 1283711185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I figured it was a MOO, but thought maybe its scripting language was Lisp, or something < 1283711410 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sally 2 will not be crap. OTOH, it will probably not be called Sally :/ < 1283711441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: X-D < 1283711575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, which platform was DICE for? < 1283711647 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AmigaOS < 1283711655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283711757 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sally2c runs and generates C code and dice can compile that code and the example programs run and I can compute factorial with it! So my nominal goal for the weekend of "compile one of my languages that wasn't developed on the Amiga, on an Amiga," has been completed < 1283711799 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now back to Dot Action 2 < 1283711853 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: At level 18 or so. Need cheat code! Computer spontaneously shut down earlier. < 1283711868 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a nice weekend goal < 1283711869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://jayisgames.com/archives/2007/04/dot_action_2.php#walkthrough < 1283711879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Dot Action 2 is a LIFE goal < 1283711891 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I meant the amiga one < 1283711902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW < 1283711983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Shweet. < 1283711987 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, but ... then why did you sound like you didn't? < 1283712010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: DOT ACTION 2 IS A SUPERIOR GOAL BECAUSE IT IS A LIFE GOAL NOT A WEEKEND GOAL < 1283712037 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god i forgot stage 18 is horrible < 1283712067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude this shit is easy :| < 1283712075 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about dot action 2, what is dot action 2 and why are you talking in all-caps? < 1283712099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Dot Action 2 is http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ and it is the only thing that matters. < 1283712155 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pushes alise onto a yellow dot < 1283712157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a simple game: collect the blue dots by running with the arrow keys and jumping with space. The yellow/orange dots kill you unless you get a red dot, which lasts until the ZET timer runs out. The green dot flips the entire playfield upside-down. Grey blocks are water, and you can swim in them by jumping. < 1283712159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Timing the spacebar in the 1-cell-deep water? Maybe for you! < 1283712162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the time runs out, you lose. < 1283712172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you fall down past the bottom of the level, you lose. < 1283712176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA GOOD LUCK SUCKER < 1283712186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No timing required. < 1283712190 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I've loaded the page, so how do you start the game? < 1283712193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat you spacebar to death. < 1283712203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Press space in the Flash until you get to the level selection screen. < 1283712214 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh, *space* < 1283712214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number on the bottom is the NNN-NNN save code; use the second menu item to load this again. < 1283712217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It changes each level.) < 1283712229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Enter pauses; you can continue or end the level. < 1283712234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it gets much, MUCH harder. < 1283712239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283712242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 100 levels and 8 further bonus levels. You will die. < 1283712258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many, many times, you will die. < 1283712319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on to stage 66. There are many ahead of me, yet I am already nearly spent. < 1283712406 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost got to the end of level 1 but then I fell through the gap in the floor, so I think I'll just give up here < 1283712423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283712428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many have said that. < 1283712432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will be playing again soon. < 1283712453 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? I have forgotten the address < 1283712486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283712512 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283712544 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideone.com has support for Factor. It also hasn support for Falcon < 1283712574 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Clearly we need a "Falctorn" < 1283712589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a couple levs < 1283712609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wat < 1283712764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be an implementation of Falctorn which runs on the BBC Micro, because "Acorn" is also embedded in that word. < 1283712852 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I've never played with any of that RISC OS stuff. < 1283712886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acorn has nothing to do with the BBC Micro... < 1283712889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really ought to find out what Factor is < 1283712900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They *made* the BBC Micro. < 1283712923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they did? Okay. < 1283712967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Factor is to Forth as Haskell is to Lisp. Except, I'm lying. < 1283712976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ignorance makes Chris Curry cry. < 1283713058 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Chris* Curry? < 1283713079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really really hopes that was his name < 1283713085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any relation to Haskell, I wonder < 1283713105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wikipedia seems to think it was < 1283713112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1283713133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1283713165 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought it was Haskell Curry for some reason >.> < 1283713192 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, two people sharing the same name < 1283713193 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1283713203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DARE THEY < 1283713249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is named after haskell curry, obviously < 1283713254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283713256 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Are you still pro-picoLisp? (Because I can't think for myself, and I need to know if a language has the Alise Stamp of Doesn't-Entirely-Suck before I start bothering with it) < 1283713284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's certainly interesting. Read the wiki; all of it. http://www.picolisp.org/5000/-2.html (It's not very big.) < 1283713286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two people sharing a surname? UNHEARD OF < 1283713302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elite used two display modes at once. < 1283713304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes it awesome. < 1283713323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The front page, http://software-lab.de/radical.pdf, "Articles & Essays", a lot of the documentation, and the part of the book that has been written are all interesting. < 1283713337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Elite in general is awesome. < 1283713341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And this forum post: http://www.picolisp.org/5000/-2-L.html < 1283713345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what languages do fall into alise's entirely-suck category? < 1283713353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++? < 1283713356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm... PHP. < 1283713359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D? < 1283713361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess a few, but there are probably more < 1283713362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: C++ has a shred of C in it, so it can't fall entirely there < 1283713367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, do guess! < 1283713374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java? < 1283713375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always interested in meeting the little version of me people have in their heads. < 1283713376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to put LOLCODE up there < 1283713382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, down there < 1283713383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely. < 1283713389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, LOLCODE is a great language if you replace the syntax with regular keywords. < 1283713391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. I tried it once. < 1283713400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I've heard some people saying that it's a decent lang in a bad syntax < 1283713415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it rather similar to Lua, if you don't take the syntax into account? < 1283713454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, maybe < 1283713456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has types and stuff < 1283713458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although not static) < 1283713464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively unique in its oddness < 1283713467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially its loop construct < 1283713475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and its conditionals; "if" looks at an implicit variable < 1283713478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you do things like < 1283713480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you really hate PHP and that's it. < 1283713486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo == "bar", if < 1283713487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283713487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else < 1283713488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283713489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1283713509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a sort of "discarded result of last expression" variable? < 1283713511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: C++ entirely sucks. Sorry. < 1283713527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C cannot survive that kind of pollution. < 1283713552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any others? < 1283713586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about D to say. < 1283713612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm guessing Plain English < 1283713617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps that was obvious < 1283713636 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is that one that's like the name of a greek god or something but misspelled? < 1283713646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nemerle? < 1283713653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say, like, MINURVA < 1283713661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, Roman, not Greek :/) < 1283713667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOOPITER < 1283713668 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Nemerle < 1283713678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you happy now, i'm hooked < 1283713680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis misspelt. < 1283713687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: wat" <<< dot < 1283713727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 levels passed or something < 1283713798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It was designed by an economist to do economics math and stuff < 1283713809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R? < 1283713811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 United DJs vs Pandora < 1283713820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to list Greek gods < 1283713823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, R looks OK by comparison. This was BancStar-level < 1283713833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → food < 1283713834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yay you are addicted again < 1283713834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm thinking it's probably not a Greek god :/ < 1283713851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, a sort of "discarded result of last expression" variable? ;; something like that < 1283713877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think only conditionals assigned it < 1283713878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1283713892 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, alise: The author used it personally for a long time, described it as "mature" so he decided to make it public < 1283713901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: like a flag variable in asm, then? < 1283713902 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1283713904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You introduced me to it < 1283713939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only had tangential experience with it, but STATA is somewhere between C++ and BANCStar on the scale of awfulness < 1283713945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I did? < 1283713952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made worse by the fact that it's actually used seriously < 1283713965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a lang which not only has Mathematica syndrome, but no redeeming features whatsoever < 1283713981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, arrays are implemented by dynamically generating variable names at runtime and using eval) < 1283713996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I'm pretty sure you gave me the link, months ago < 1283714004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: describe it more < 1283714007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually have it bookmarked, at work < 1283714049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, designed by an economist, for his personal use doing economist-type math, extrEEEMELY horrible syntax, name is a misspelled version of some english word or name < 1283714082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what kind of site did it have? < 1283714097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Plain HTML I think, in the UK I think < 1283714105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OH! < 1283714107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's that one! < 1283714110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the bunch of characters < 1283714111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix < 1283714115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixed with others < 1283714116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ursala! < 1283714117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds familiar, yes < 1283714118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1283714120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/ < 1283714121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ursala! < 1283714122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, yes Ursala < 1283714134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's completely devoid of bad ideas, though < 1283714137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, a misspelled Disney antagonist, then. < 1283714145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1283714146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like C++; there are good ideas in there somewhere, but buried too deeply to actually by useful < 1283714217 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there doesn't appear to be a Greek goddess named Ursula, at least not one of note < 1283714289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/queen.fun < 1283714348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ideas buried under something that matches Befunge and False for readability < 1283714375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstrips, really, not matches < 1283714377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "ursula" latin for "little bear"? < 1283714385 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1283714416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go read up on D'ni history < 1283714447 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the real world hold no interest for me? < 1283714460 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-190.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283714494 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: not intellectual enough? < 1283714506 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1283714529 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, as far as science goes, all new real-world science is inaccessible to people without insane equipment < 1283714543 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in Second Life, I can perform experiments to my heart's desire < 1283714545 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example < 1283714549 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we did the easy science first of course :D < 1283714575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life < 1283714585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find something about this site disturbing < 1283714648 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such an uncreative use of time < 1283714672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the result is a massive "cookbook" < 1283714675 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Create_a_two-dimensional_array_at_runtime < 1283714730 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Apply_a_callback_to_an_array < 1283714736 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they call it a "callback"? < 1283714745 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what I think of when I see "callback" < 1283714875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk 'func psqr(x){print x,x*x}BEGIN{split("1 2 3 4 5",a);for(i in a)psqr(a[i])}' < 1283714881 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah that's not a callback. < 1283714890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!awk 'func psqr(x){print x,x*x}BEGIN{split("1 2 3 4 5",a);for(i in a)psqr(a[i])}' < 1283714912 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: ping < 1283714921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo 'hi' < 1283714927 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hi' < 1283714932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!awk -h < 1283714938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't HackEgo run with the backtick? < 1283714945 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1283714947 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1283714950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`awk -h < 1283714962 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1283714969 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`awk 'func psqr(x){print x,x*x}BEGIN{split("1 2 3 4 5",a);for(i in a)psqr(a[i])}' < 1283714971 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1283714978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which awk < 1283714980 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/awk < 1283715022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk: line 2: function psqr never defined < 1283715023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1283715136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run awk 'function psqr(x){print x,x*x}BEGIN{split("1 2 3 4 5",a);for(i in a)psqr(a[i])}' 2>&1 < 1283715138 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 \ 2 4 \ 3 9 \ 4 16 \ 5 25 < 1283715169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, `run with 2>&1 is a good combination for error messages. < 1283715201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "function", but maybe the submitters awk is less picky. < 1283715296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. mawk no like 'func'. < 1283715315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the Rosetta people are calling callback < 1283715321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1283715392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, why do OISCs suck? < 1283715525 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283715529 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not neat enough? < 1283715622 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-190.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283715655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonymous functions? Are these people completely insane? < 1283715671 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283715829 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, is there a variant of combinator calculus that only needs one combinator? < 1283715839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of. < 1283715857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota and Jot both have a single combinator. < 1283715903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283715916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1283715929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although no such /supercombinator/ calculus < 1283715939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a two-combinator calculus that does not require parentheses, ever, iirc < 1283715942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supercombinator? < 1283715943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in normal application order) < 1283715948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a lambda with no lambdas inside < 1283715967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKI, BCKW, etc. are all supercombinators. < 1283715971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota isn't < 1283715973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't. < 1283716125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCKW? < 1283716143 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one combinator with different appication trees, or two combinators sounds like the minimum < 1283716160 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't beat that < 1283716184 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picolisp seems pretty decent, but it's a bit surprising to see that the size of its executable is larger than lua5's by like 150% < 1283716207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, badly worded. Its executable is 150% the size of lua5's. < 1283716317 0 :Jora!Jora@unaffiliated/jora JOIN :#esoteric < 1283716325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, libraries? < 1283716370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hammed in < 1283716370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The included database might be a large chunk of it, yes, < 1283716378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: even the 64 version? < 1283716380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's written in assembly < 1283716384 0 :Jora!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283716384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the database < 1283716387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ web server < 1283716414 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 64-bit arch here to try that on, unfortunately < 1283716434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean wouldn't Lua have lots of stuff in libraries outside the executable. < 1283716467 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not normally, but you're right that Ubuntu packagers might have decided to do that < 1283716496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently they did not < 1283716731 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283717103 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-107-174.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283717448 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283717553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squared < 1283717952 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 sq . < 1283718280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:17:07 in my dream, alise and cpressey sent me a postcard that was an invite to come explore the "natural hoovers" of another universe (natural hoover being a technical term for an inverse volcano) < 1283718282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it worked!! < 1283718290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:12:50 alise: i got 130 < 1283718291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :130 what < 1283718297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the jumping game < 1283718319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically forced me to try it < 1283718345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling tower < 1283718347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1283718348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283718354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's way too slippery < 1283718358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what level are you on now? < 1283718371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58, but i'm taking a break, possibly quitting completely < 1283718379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to get some reading done < 1283718455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got badly stuck at a few levels, i dunno why but it was scary shit :( < 1283718585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm on 66 dude < 1283718588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're inferior. < 1283718590 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283718635 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-51-218.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283718658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283718665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not joking. loser < 1283718669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later.................. < 1283718703 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283718720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when did you get up to 58? < 1283718765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1283718773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when did you complete 57 < 1283718777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. how long have you been not-playing < 1283718786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not for long i think < 1283718794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i stopped at 22:15 < 1283718801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i've been playing for ages < 1283718807 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283718823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it there now? < 1283718832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33 < 1283718890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1283718899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a monster < 1283718913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i am ? :D < 1283718973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i've been playing for days and days and i'm only up to 66 < 1283718986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i've been playing for about an hour < 1283718993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1283718997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: two hours and thirty-five minutues < 1283718999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minutes < 1283719000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1283719002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked. < 1283719003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8| < 1283719005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or thereabouts) < 1283719007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1283719011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a friend is on 64, he's been playing for as long as me < 1283719026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1283719030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is on 57, roughly the same amount of time (although less time spent playing) < 1283719031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've played it before < 1283719035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have i dude < 1283719042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's on 58 now < 1283719044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe i should catch all of you < 1283719045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283719084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: become the first person to actually complete the damn thing < 1283719108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even i think it's JUST TOO EASY (I'm also insane) so I'm going to make a clone except the levels are ridiculously hard < 1283719113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm perverse. < 1283719359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58 is fun, first a few minutes of triviality, then one short hard part < 1283719424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283719452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283719457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that irritated me :P < 1283719471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 is very hard < 1283719713 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.110.96.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283719861 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283719999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And annoyed with all ROM management tools out there, I decided to replace them. With a small Tcl script. < 1283720011 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283720024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tcl used because: I'm too lazy to rewrite a CSV parser, and I know how the one in Tcl works) < 1283720144 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283720158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You're doing this thing again? After the last time you said it's no fun at all? < 1283720428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes < 1283720640 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283720727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what level now :D < 1283720782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stuck at 60 :( < 1283720791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my hands are getting old < 1283720807 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283720838 0 :teuchter!~choochter@host213-1-51-218.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283720854 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283720978 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1283720994 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721016 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1283721034 0 :comex_!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how old are they? < 1283721085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they are roughly as old as me < 1283721090 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283721103 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta design an 8bit microprocessor < 1283721119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all feel like that sometimes < 1283721121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes < 1283721122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm. Okay. At least they didn't sell you some old ones that passed the best before date while in storage then < 1283721124 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, 8 bit data bus) < 1283721124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all feel like that < 1283721135 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone has some design tips? < 1283721156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1283721175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, yes "while one instruction is enough, it will probably be quite painful to code for" < 1283721199 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721204 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: eh, doesn't sound like something that would make a fast design < 1283721205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is an esotericness-usability tradeoff there < 1283721224 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for usability < 1283721235 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotericness is going to be in the gfx and sfx hardware < 1283721239 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu has to be nice < 1283721259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, does it? < 1283721274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, also sfx? < 1283721277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special effects? < 1283721278 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designing a retro game system < 1283721280 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound < 1283721282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283721302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly this became way more boring to me < 1283721313 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean boring? < 1283721349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, at the word "game system" the idea became boring to me. I was thinking general purpose computer < 1283721359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was considering esoteric network interfaces < 1283721377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a tin-can modem < 1283721388 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OISC is getting even better < 1283721409 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like for coding crazy buzzy 2600 styled games < 1283721410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721410 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721410 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721411 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721411 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721412 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1283721417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a speaker, and a mic at each end. Then two tin cans and a string in between. For half-duplex communication < 1283721443 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably use something like the c64 tape system :D < 1283721450 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pulses of different length < 1283721451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283721459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, for the modem!? < 1283721474 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1283721483 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't know anything about modem design < 1283721494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, see my suggestion < 1283721504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run SLIP or something over it < 1283721506 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be cool to have the sound hardware dual purpose as a modem < 1283721511 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slip? < 1283721521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before ppp < 1283721529 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ppp? < 1283721531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLIP < 1283721538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, ... have you never used a modem? < 1283721557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol < 1283721583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I can only assume you never used a dial-up < 1283721584 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm most likely not going to touch any network protocol < 1283721601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, why? that is way more fun than generic sound < 1283721609 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used dial-up but I forgot most of that < 1283721622 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound is cool man < 1283721648 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design a synthesis chip that's going to sound cool and unique < 1283721658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, never used ADSL modem using PPPoE or PPPoA? Or tethering computer over 3G? < 1283721673 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nops, cable internet < 1283721674 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-201-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283721696 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too interested in networks honestly :D < 1283721715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, why are you connected to one then? ;P < 1283721718 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a sound and gfx guy < 1283721718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'm stuck at 60 :( < 1283721719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe my hands are getting old < 1283721730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: did you remember to hit the ceiling before the long descent? < 1283721739 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more like the network works kthnxbye :D < 1283721743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you remember to hold left instead of ascending further when you pass the last white line? < 1283721754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I can't think of anything more painful to program than non-text based interfaces < 1283721765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, malbolge probably < 1283721770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my OISC is getting even better ;; what is it like? < 1283721776 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if I can design a neat sound chip < 1283721778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that, doing something like SDL or GTK+ or whatever: painful < 1283721790 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can make a composition tool and make neat chipmusic for it :D < 1283721805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SDL, painful? < 1283721813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to consider that you're just a bad programmer < 1283721830 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be more like DOS VGA programming than sdl really :D < 1283721835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, but I don't blame that on SDL. I just hate graphics programming in general < 1283721839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I can do it < 1283721842 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-107-174.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hate it < 1283721856 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put data at memory address N to get color Y at pixel Z < 1283721857 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283721873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, going to implement this in hardware? < 1283721883 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulator first < 1283721889 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, FPGA later? < 1283721892 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283721893 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: gmote < 1283721900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, verilog or VHDL? < 1283721906 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure yet < 1283721924 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably vhdl < 1283721975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1283721985 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd really go for an emulator mostly since that's what most people will end up seeing and using < 1283721988 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283721995 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want a design that can actually work irl < 1283721996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, or do it in silicon with contemporary technology ;) < 1283722003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have some billions to spare that is < 1283722009 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that doesn't involve ridiculous parts < 1283722017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: did you remember to hit the ceiling before the long descent?" <<< the fastest way is to just drop down, but yeah it's possible i usually do that part wrong, let's see < 1283722039 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm mostly designingg from DRAM specs < 1283722054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, anyway this sound chip. I presume it won't be able to play back acoustic music < 1283722055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283722061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without sounding horrible < 1283722069 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit classic dram designs, or 64-bit EDO designs are totally different < 1283722071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283722079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe hitting ceiling is faster in this case too < 1283722093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hitting ceiling is faster < 1283722099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get this by raping the spacebar a lot before dropping < 1283722102 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: I'm not quite sure yet, I could make it sample based like the amiga and snes but that's a bit too easy < 1283722104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pretty much guarantees a ceiling hit < 1283722113 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not very original < 1283722125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Vorpal hates you because it cannot play THE ONLY FORM OF MUSIC < 1283722131 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some pretty good tools for that too < 1283722132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noise! < 1283722132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrong < 1283722134 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only form? < 1283722139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: classical ofc < 1283722145 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1283722147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like non-classical too < 1283722152 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you define classical :D < 1283722179 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah on really limited systems like NES, poppy 80s music tends to work a bit better < 1283722184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classical music is all Greek to me. < 1283722187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rimshot] < 1283722218 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FM synthesis chips can do ok classical music < 1283722229 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sample based systems < 1283722286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, well, I define classical to the the classical period. Which is hard to define in exact years. The borders to the baroque and the romantic periods are definitely fuzzy < 1283722319 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283722336 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for video game music it tends to be more like romantic music < 1283722338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however wikipedia offers the suggestion "The dates of the Classical Period in Western music are generally accepted as being between 1750 to 1820." < 1283722348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is reasonably accurate < 1283722359 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because violins are hard on synthesizers < 1283722381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, violins is my favourite instrument. On second place is piano. < 1283722389 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283722398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283722405 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Vorpal> madbrain2, I can't think of anything more painful to program than non-text based interfaces < 1283722411 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1283722411 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're weird < 1283722425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Thanks. Aren't we all in here anyway. < 1283722436 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on snes, actraiser 2 is the most "serious" orchestral soundtrack < 1283722442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I place organ, especially church organ, on last place. I strongly dislike that sound. < 1283722453 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then it's sorta jumpy and romantic < 1283722476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distorted electric guitar is on the place above organ < 1283722490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I love the Zelda OOT music < 1283722495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was *very* good < 1283722500 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played that one < 1283722507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, n64 < 1283722524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey, Thanks. Aren't we all in here anyway. < 1283722527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually in an interesting way. < 1283722539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and who are you to define interesting? < 1283722561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are you to define weird as something complementary? < 1283722562 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most other orchestral soundtracks are classical/pop mixes < 1283722565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complimentary? < 1283722593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< alise> you can get this by raping the spacebar a lot before dropping < 1283722600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't say that. I just said thanks. Implying I liked it < 1283722602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY TERMINOLOGY IS ACCEPTABLE < 1283722611 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the final fantasy soundtracks < 1283722616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds redundant, but technically it probably isn't. < 1283722625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does? < 1283722631 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah snes sound ram is like 64k < 1283722652 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and violins sound bad when you pitch them up or down < 1283722689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I prefer sampled to synthed when it comes to sound generation. < 1283722702 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to, say, flutes, which come out relatively good < 1283722714 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: yeah, that's normal I think < 1283722718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, and violins have a pretty restricted range anyway. You want viola, cello and so on for other ranges < 1283722742 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what I mean is that it's hard to pass off a G3 sample at G4 for instance < 1283722747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283722767 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you could get away with only 1 or a few flute samples < 1283722801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, well, to some extent. Not for a trained ear though. < 1283722807 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you loop the flute sample it's less of a problem < 1283722832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "raping the spacebar a lot" < 1283722836 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: true, but what I mean is that it's less of a problem than other instruments < 1283722837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah. < 1283722842 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like brass < 1283722845 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strings < 1283722884 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can compose music with a 2k flute sample and it won't sound ear raping and terrible < 1283722891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, there is a reason I use huge soundfonts when playing MIDI. 70 MB or more isn't uncommon for good quality soundfonts < 1283722907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for piano alone that is :P < 1283722924 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm mostly talking about really small settings with few channels :D < 1283722954 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like orchestral soundtracks squeezed into 256k with 8 channels :D < 1283722961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! who needs more sounds than sin can produce! < 1283722975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I much prefer actually acoustically recorded music to even generated-with-samples though < 1283722991 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin can produce everything but you'd need hundreads of channels < 1283723010 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: and with what orchestra am I going to record soundtracks eh? :D < 1283723025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, for the violin family of instruments you can usually hear a difference. Especially if they start plucking the strings. < 1283723052 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah real orchestras sound better than fake ones. duh. < 1283723059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are sooo many ways to play a violin. Try rendering anything by Paganini in midi. I doubt the result will be even passable < 1283723076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, a piano is way easier. Much fewer variables that can change < 1283723101 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just the fact that it is "solo violin" is already a really bad start < 1283723117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key, attack, time held down, release, which pedals are down. < 1283723120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it I think < 1283723128 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why soundtracks concentrate on the other instruments, that's the one that samples the worst < 1283723133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: I can't wait to play this violin game on your esoputer. Wait, I'm lost. < 1283723140 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piano works fine if you just sample every note < 1283723145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, violin is the best instrument there is though < 1283723146 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie you got lots of space < 1283723155 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then piano can sound pretty good yes < 1283723190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, yes I have an electrical piano. It sounds good. Assuming I use my studio headphones rather than the built in speakers < 1283723192 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: well, what's a good system when the soundtrack has to fit into like 250k max eh? :D < 1283723198 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQUARE WAVES WITH PULSE WIDTH SWEEP OR BUST < 1283723203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, adding more memory :P < 1283723219 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the design is going to turn into a playstation < 1283723225 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when I said 8 bits? :D < 1283723244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, hm. Playstation is better though. Can use it for cracking MD5 too < 1283723291 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, I'm going for 8 bits here, not 32~64 bit systems, which are complicated to design < 1283723313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, why not 16 bits? < 1283723322 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 16bits < 1283723331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: OK, to like, answer your original question? I like the 6502. Design something like that. < 1283723349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I was coding for a 16-bit platform today. A lot nicer than 8 bits. With 8 bits for the address bus you need some sort of bank switching design < 1283723352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be horrible < 1283723371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wh... 8-bits usually have a 16-bit address bus. < 1283723374 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, by 8bits I mean 8 bit data bus < 1283723386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm < 1283723396 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like the z80 that has 8bit data bus with 16bit address registers < 1283723401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, okay. RISC I presume? < 1283723411 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any real HW with an 8-bit address bus. Maybe "back in the day" when computers had names like SCA/MP < 1283723430 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And 6-bit bytes! :/ ) < 1283723431 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the registers could be 32bits for all I care, but there's not too much point if you have to squeeze it through an 8 bit bus < 1283723432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, or EINAC! < 1283723448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what it had < 1283723452 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: risc or cisc < 1283723458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, risc definitely < 1283723467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less of a pain in hardware < 1283723472 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cisc might be faster < 1283723487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283723509 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :risc makes sense in the 32bit generation stuff < 1283723510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, risc and number the instructions in a way as to minimise gate count in instruction decoding and so on < 1283723538 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if I had a 32bit bus I'd definitely try RISC < 1283723541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, 16-bit RISC is often quite nice to use < 1283723575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: What ISAs are you familiar with? < 1283723580 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with risc is that instruction is usually quite large < 1283723591 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too much of an asm coder < 1283723608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, Harward or von Neumann? < 1283723612 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mostly x86, looked a bit at ARM, z80... < 1283723623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harvard* < 1283723650 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z80 is a great piece of hardware (easy to build a computer around) but I really don't like the instruction set. < 1283723654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, hm. The 16-bit RISC I used recently had like 32 instructions < 1283723655 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harvard is nice but you'd need like two mem/data busses < 1283723657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1283723661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 I think < 1283723673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no FPU or MMU of course < 1283723683 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: the instructions are 16bits each? < 1283723705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, with arguments included yes iirc < 1283723725 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that there's no data cache < 1283723735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, nor on that thing. It's SoC. < 1283723754 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 16 bit instruction = have to wait for 16 bits of data from DRA < 1283723756 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAM < 1283723769 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it has a cache, but I don't think so < 1283723778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, not really an issue for my application though < 1283723794 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means register instructions will take 1 cycle, memory instructions 2 cycles < 1283723794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Z80 feels a bit arbitrary to me. But I can't help liking the register pairing to form BC, DE, HL out of B, C, D, E, H, L. < 1283723795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was controlling a robot < 1283723796 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally < 1283723808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck it was waiting on sensors most time < 1283723821 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at 16 bits it will be similar in performance to a 286/386 or a 68k < 1283723821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the* < 1283723838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, why not back it by fast memory? Like SRAM < 1283723873 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRAM is kindof like... you get not much memory < 1283723889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, 2^16 gives 65536 bytes, which is 64 kiB unless I miscalculated. < 1283723903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my pentium3 had more level 2 cache < 1283723909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be SRAM < 1283723910 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not very "realistic" < 1283723914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The pairing is a nice touch, I grant. < 1283723923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, what isn't? < 1283723934 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :few systems are designed with SRAM < 1283723959 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the GBA they had to relent and added 256k of DRAM (first designs only had 32k SRAM) < 1283723962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I'm saying it can't be too expensive! Even a pentium3 had more level 2 cache! < 1283724005 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deviating_Percolator < 1283724008 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell am I reading < 1283724011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pentium3 has 256k level 2 cache < 1283724031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sin can produce everything but you'd need hundreads of channels ;; the thousand-channel sin machine < 1283724036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no flaw in this plan < 1283724059 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's like the OISC of sound synthesizers! < 1283724076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo DS, which admittedly isn't very retro at all, has 4 megs of slow-slow DRAM shared by the ARM7/ARM9 cores, and then about 64k of faster memory that can be mapped in various ways. < 1283724079 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's a real 64 channel design that came out of atari :D < 1283724081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sounds wonderful indeed. < 1283724097 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283724123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: hello. < 1283724125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about as much RAM as my low end keypad nokia phone iirc < 1283724127 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah there's a couple of real synthesizers that have used sinewave based synthesis < 1283724137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, the DS's sound chip can hardware-mix 32 sampled-audio channels at independent sampling rates. Though you'd run out of memory bandwidth if you wanted to keep all channels on with high sampling rates. < 1283724146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the DRAM bit < 1283724147 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 16 channels < 1283724147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283724191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, you can't do saw-tooth with sine though afaik? < 1283724203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why anyone would want saw-tooth to tell the truth < 1283724204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think this "sin"thesizer would be easier to do in software than in hardware... < 1283724206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds horrible < 1283724206 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpas: you can add sines together < 1283724213 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make a sawtooth < 1283724220 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more sines you add the closer it gets < 1283724228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, hm. Perfectly saw tooth? < 1283724229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine < saw < square < 1283724234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square <3 < 1283724249 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: a lot of common instruments are sortof dull-saw-wave-shaped < 1283724255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: square with pulse width sweep <3 <3 <3 < 1283724266 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: you'd have problems with gibbs phenomenon but yeah < 1283724273 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least audibly perfect < 1283724277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, gibbs phenomenon ? < 1283724283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that is, but <3 <3 <3 just to be on the safe side < 1283724291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1283724300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: eeeEEEEOOOoooowww < 1283724300 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hehe c64 power? :D < 1283724305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283724313 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of an FM nut though :D < 1283724316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: none other! < 1283724327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, phase modulated music. Has anyone made that? < 1283724358 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: adlib and genesis use phase modulation synthesis < 1283724374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, how does it sound? < 1283724413 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sHqDIRdSw&feature=related < 1283724417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, also hm, presumably you could do PWM too < 1283724422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in Pulse Width < 1283724435 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pulse width is a classic but dunno < 1283724454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, sine probably sounds best though < 1283724462 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283724470 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has rather wide spectrum so it's kinda hard to mix < 1283724479 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine wave has the opposite problem :D < 1283724485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, ? < 1283724501 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwm square wave has a really wide spectrum < 1283724506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283724520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, and sine? < 1283724535 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sine has the most narrow spectrum since it's only 1 frequency :D < 1283724559 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283724564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sHqDIRdSw&feature=related <-- horrible sound :P < 1283724582 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's kinda canny < 1283724593 0 :alise_!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283724602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, possible it might sound better on a crappier playback device than a SB Live 5.1 < 1283724624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, and with some cheaper headphones that professional studio monitoring ones < 1283724624 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: pwm square wave plus sine < 1283724626 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1283724650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, since my setup doesn't hide any imperfections in the sound < 1283724713 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: no it's really that the synth is pretty limited < 1283724717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, I noticed that with cheaper equipment you can get away with more imperfections. Not just for sound, but in general. < 1283724730 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you haave to do nasty compromises < 1283724734 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283724736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283724744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squared sine. See, you've got a sine, and you've sort-of metaphysically got a square too. < 1283724759 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG, I see why DICE C has so much trouble with RUBE. RUBE heavily uses #defines that expand into similar expressions, and DICE doesn't do any common subexpression elimination. < 1283724786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about generalised polygon? < 1283724807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283724828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, sounds crappy < 1283724829 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: this is about the best "mixed" genesis game : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HNLcl1dl0&feature=related < 1283724861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, pretty limited still < 1283724906 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, composing for snes is easier yes :D < 1283724915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, and what did it use? < 1283724926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what you said for it < 1283724952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're willing to cheat horribly on the SNES, you can just have your cartridge send a signal down the L and R audio pins. < 1283724966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's *analog* L and R audio.) < 1283724967 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? < 1283724970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Yes. < 1283724982 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283724982 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool though the snes chip is already not bad at all :D < 1283725004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you're really crazy, you can just *barely* get the SNES to output 32 kHz PCM. < 1283725019 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly you have to fit everything into 64k of sound ram but that's adpcm so it's like twice compressed compared to 8bit pcm < 1283725022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without any addon chips. < 1283725026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can it do anything else then? < 1283725031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from outputting sound < 1283725034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1283725039 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32khz pcm is easy on snes < 1283725041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1283725058 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is really that you're going to run out of sound ram really fast at 32khz :D < 1283725059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You see, the sound output is done on a completely seperate processor. < 1283725063 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in 2 seconds < 1283725064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but really, it had pins for analog audio to the cartridge? < 1283725073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: 2 minutes on a 32 megabit cartridge. < 1283725076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1283725092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh, how many games made use of that? < 1283725100 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: the japanese NES and MSX had that too and afaik they're the only systems where sound expansion chips were used < 1283725104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Super Gameboy. < 1283725115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh of course < 1283725118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Japan, there was also the BSX extension. < 1283725123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSX? < 1283725135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a hookup to a satellite modem. < 1283725151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283725154 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's if the game had no other data :D < 1283725161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Yes, yes it is. < 1283725169 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could actually fit 4 minutes < 1283725199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Also, though not done on any actual physical carts, you *can* actually get up to 4 GB on there. < 1283725203 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be hard because streaming audio to the sound chip is kinda hard < 1283725204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, considering how much you could do in a cartridge I can't see why you would be limited to uncompressed PCM < 1283725230 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: snes has ADPCM compression in hardware < 1283725235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice < 1283725241 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can't play NOT compressed pcm :D < 1283725246 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283725253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, how efficient is that compression? < 1283725268 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 8bit quality audio for the price of 4.5bits < 1283725291 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this BRR? < 1283725301 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it means your 64k of sound ram are more like ~120k < 1283725307 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes BRR < 1283725311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, ah I was thinking of come reasonably high quality lossless compression, like wavpack, being unpacked by a co-processor on the cartridge < 1283725322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's perfectly feasible. < 1283725342 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: you'd have to fit it in the superfx2 chip I guess < 1283725342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar was *actually done* for sprites on a couple of games. < 1283725353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err s/reasonably high quality lossless/reasonably high compression ratio lossless/ < 1283725359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Not necessarily. < 1283725360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit unclear there < 1283725368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: You can literally stick just about anything on there. < 1283725370 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you'd have to compress the audio to ADPCM after decompressing it < 1283725387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could attach a modern x86 PC to the SNES bus. < 1283725392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directly. < 1283725394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, just put a DSP in there that plays to the analogue audio pins? < 1283725405 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: you could do that < 1283725411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That* would be easy. < 1283725420 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd also run out of data on the cartridges < 1283725429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends on how many amps you could pull from the power pins < 1283725443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you would presumably blow some fuse at some point < 1283725453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One could do something similar to the BSX. < 1283725455 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good lossless compression schemes get you 50% compression on like stereo 16 bit < 1283725464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, have external power. < 1283725467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1283725467 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283725472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well that's cheating < 1283725478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Doing it modern-day would let you stick a freaking flash card to it. < 1283725482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, 16-bit? bah < 1283725488 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still ~88k of data per SECOND < 1283725507 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more than the sound data of some games < 1283725508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, just stick some NAND flash into there < 1283725537 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no man, get the snes with a cd and play ramstein over your game < 1283725544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283725546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: The SNES-CD? < 1283725551 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, SNES CD? < 1283725557 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never did snes cd < 1283725557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that thing? < 1283725561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283725570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Yes they did. They just didn't finish because contract fell through. < 1283725576 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tg16-cd games often play redbook audio for music < 1283725589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've probably seen the public result of that, though. < 1283725592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Playstation? < 1283725595 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1283725622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how much of the SNES could you bypass. I mean. Doing the entire game on the cartridge. Would that be possible? < 1283725627 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though many psx games play some sort of compressed format < 1283725629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just putting the main CPU in an idle loop < 1283725631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1283725640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly after poking some hardware registers or such < 1283725641 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from experience most playstation games actually use the sound chip instead of playing from the CD < 1283725648 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most i've seen, anyway < 1283725655 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greasemonkey: true < 1283725656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, you indeed could. < 1283725662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you familiar with the Super Gameboy? < 1283725674 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the die hard trilogy is an example of one which uses tracks on the CD < 1283725675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, but I don't know if the main CPU is doing anything at all there or not < 1283725681 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe tekken 2 also does it < 1283725686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather few PC games bother with CD audio, but some do use it. < 1283725690 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it dragon ball z < 1283725698 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one which was a copy of a game, anyway < 1283725698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like shifting data to the display or whatever < 1283725698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's displaying a framebuffer. < 1283725707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, could you skip that too? < 1283725715 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd audio sorta became obsolete when games started streaming audio by themselves < 1283725722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rather, it's displaying a few different sprites which *happen* to be the Super Gameboy's framebuffer. < 1283725722 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially mp3 or ogg audio < 1283725727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also the SNES pin design must have needed some serious planning ahead! < 1283725736 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you could skip the entire NES if you ran from cartridge < 1283725748 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ALMOST < 1283725754 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's some paletting issues there < 1283725757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, NES or SNES? < 1283725760 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NES < 1283725764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1283725767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about SNES then? < 1283725769 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't on the sega master system < 1283725773 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about SNES < 1283725780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Super Gameboy is literally a Gameboy which uses the SNES for video and audio out and controller in. < 1283725790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know that < 1283725801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but as you said, it still does the framebuffer bit < 1283725816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I want to directly drive everything from the cartridge < 1283725848 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put a ntsc output on the cartridge < 1283725854 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snes was 32mbit? < 1283725854 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1283725855 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a power supply < 1283725859 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remove the snes < 1283725862 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why bit :P < 1283725865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, that would be cheating < 1283725877 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude you're already way cheating < 1283725879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, external power supply I accept < 1283725887 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real thing they did with snes is use the snes sound chip < 1283725890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, yes but cheating with specifc rules < 1283725897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Actually, that's just the largest official game release. < 1283725910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The ROM limit is actually 2^32-1 bytes. < 1283725912 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the sound chip was already better than what you'd probably come up with for game sound chips < 1283725927 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some snes games are 4 megs yes < 1283725938 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's even a couple with 6 megs < 1283725953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand you could then start paging. < 1283725986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You couldn't *quite* do that. < 1283725991 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snes address range is 24 bits no? < 1283726000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Oh, right, it is. Never mind. < 1283726009 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was kinda thinking that < 1283726012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: However, you could completely shut off the main CPU and use the on-cartridge CPU. < 1283726022 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still 16 megs, more than any snes game < 1283726028 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed most n64 games :D < 1283726042 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, and you could also make a space invaders thing which could detect super gameboy and turn the damn thing back on < 1283726044 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think snes DOOM does that < 1283726051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1283726055 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect dark is 32MB (n64) < 1283726063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the actual cartridge expansion chip hooks into the *main bus*. < 1283726066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really. < 1283726071 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said most n64 games, not all :D < 1283726075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nice! < 1283726075 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it uses some form of ADPCM for its samples < 1283726080 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mario64 is 8bit < 1283726082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but if the main cpu is running it takes over or? < 1283726085 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1283726087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, what? < 1283726091 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mario64 is 8megs rather < 1283726095 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1283726095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283726097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If the main CPU is running then they run in tandem. < 1283726124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With communication between them going over a specific point in memory. < 1283726128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, but it uses a lot of shading instead of textures, and where it uses textures they are simple. I'm not surprised < 1283726132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how all of the actual expansion chips on the SNES functioned. < 1283726139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, zelda oot is 32 megabyte iirc? < 1283726157 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24megs or something... I don't remember < 1283726176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe it was majora's mask that was 32 megabyte < 1283726189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1283726194 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah psx games are huge compared to that < 1283726214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, was psx same era or? < 1283726219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1283726219 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283726225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283726231 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually psx came out before n64 < 1283726254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember of psx and n64, psx had better hardware but worse games < 1283726264 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psx had more data < 1283726270 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of CD < 1283726274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1283726283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gameplay wise I meant < 1283726283 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but n64 had texture interpolation < 1283726296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS game card connection is a boring bus with 8 bidirectional data bits, and no direct addressing (you have to send it commands); and I guess from the DSi onwards they dropped the GBA cart slot, which did have 24 address bits. No more memory add-ons, or other sort of funky tricks. (Though DSi upped the built-in RAM to 16 megs, so.) < 1283726299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, texture interpolation... now what did that one do < 1283726300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, the PSX had quite a few good games and a lot of shovelware. < 1283726308 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a real selling point with nintendo fans < 1283726310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm okay < 1283726316 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mario 64, now with texture interpolation! < 1283726317 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283726319 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1283726327 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also mario < 1283726331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I have to say I much prefer zelda over mario < 1283726335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the N64 had quite a few good games and not much shovelware. < 1283726338 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: make the textures blurry instead of blocky < 1283726344 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mario is in this game, this is a mario game < 1283726347 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283726348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, ah < 1283726360 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda 64 was pretty cool < 1283726361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amount of good games, about the same (though the N64 got royally screwed on JRPGs). Just better signal/noise ratio. < 1283726367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, which one? < 1283726374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, there were two < 1283726375 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe the record for largest n64 ROM is 64MB, can't remember which it is < 1283726382 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one, i never actually played most of these games < 1283726388 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i did see a number of them < 1283726393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, so oot then? < 1283726393 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1283726397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1283726399 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...our interwebs just lagged < 1283726405 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mario64 is like a classic, classic piece of game design < 1283726407 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the targeting system < 1283726412 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the combat system < 1283726418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, iirc the leaked debug from for zelda oot master quest was 64 MB < 1283726421 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it didn't translate well to the c ontroller, i am unsure haha < 1283726423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 had some really stupid hardware limitations. < 1283726432 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n64? < 1283726450 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't it have some problems with... I think it was gfx cache or something like that < 1283726460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as having a single chunk of RAM that was high-latency. < 1283726463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't you put a co-processor on the cartridge for n6? < 1283726463 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as you guys are saying psx, i'm wondering if any of you knows where that abbreviation came from? < 1283726465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n64* < 1283726467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1283726474 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to recall opening files in a hex editor and psx was the header < 1283726475 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, why not? < 1283726477 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1283726483 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems a strange reason for it to have become the common acronym < 1283726492 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, in this channel, the opposite might be true ;) < 1283726495 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because PS was kinda short < 1283726496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing-but-ROM. < 1283726504 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno where the X came from < 1283726504 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost since the playstation was out i remember people calling it the psx < 1283726510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how did it save games then? < 1283726524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. You could have some writable RAM on there. < 1283726526 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, like i said, i am about 90% sure PSX was the file header for executables on the system < 1283726529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. Nothing but memory. < 1283726538 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like MZ (MZP) in an exe file < 1283726539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so use that as a frame buffer! < 1283726546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283726553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that a chip on the cartridge draws to < 1283726559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan*someone actually did that < 1283726564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, really? < 1283726569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Wide-Boy 64". < 1283726580 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: i interpreted that as "i am sure 90% of PSX was the file header" < 1283726604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a hand-built but actually sold Gameboy Color for the N64. < 1283726606 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the jaguar was a single-piece-of-ram system too < 1283726620 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: s/of/that/, but i guess they mean about the same thing < 1283726638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, sorry. Not hand-built. < 1283726641 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant as to how i initially interpreted < 1283726647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an official dev tool for the GBC. < 1283726651 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "90% of the game image was the file header" < 1283726670 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, haha < 1283726678 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, PSX games were super compact < 1283726684 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs 700mb? < 1283726694 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm... Good thing caching didn't mess up or such < 1283726712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1283726712 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: well, you don't want to use 700mb cause it's going to take forever to load :D < 1283726715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache? What cache? < 1283726724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well n64 could have that < 1283726727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1283726739 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah from psx on they all have cache I think < 1283726740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, what was Wide-Boy 64? < 1283726741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had high latency RAM and *no cache*. < 1283726747 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could the CDs even READ 700MB? < 1283726749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GBC for the N64. < 1283726758 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283726760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nintendo product? < 1283726762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283726766 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could the CDs even CONTAIN 700MB? < 1283726775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay h,m < 1283726777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm* < 1283726778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Only available to developers, though. < 1283726781 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they're 650m < 1283726790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did the gamecube use cartridges to or? < 1283726792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1283726799 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think dreamcast had haxxor cds that went up to like 700mb < 1283726801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ... what was the point of that then? < 1283726801 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amusing thing about PSX and N64 is that they both contain the same family of processor < 1283726813 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, so do the xbox 360 and the wii < 1283726824 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ps3's processor is kinda related < 1283726836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... Game Boy Color. < 1283726838 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ps3 is a power too no? < 1283726847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um I didn't ask what it was < 1283726848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Game Cube, Game Boy Color. < 1283726856 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean the PSX and N64 have MIPS and those other 3 are PPCish) < 1283726861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What are you talking about the gamecube for, then? < 1283726864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I asked *why only for developers* and I asked a question about gamecube < 1283726871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1283726873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I know Wii use cds < 1283726876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno why it was only for developers. < 1283726884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, gamecube is in between n64 and wii < 1283726890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't remember what it used < 1283726892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Gamecube used a disc that was DVD-like. < 1283726909 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think game cubes used something like mini DVDs < 1283726913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so no funky cartridge processor then < 1283726913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1283726959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. The Wii doesn't use DVDs. < 1283726975 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1283726982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the same disc format as the Gamecube, but physically larger. < 1283726987 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1283726991 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it fun < 1283726991 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, streaming audio doesn't really make sense unless you have tons of data < 1283727024 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even now some devs use synthesized audio on iphones because of stuff like 10mb data limits < 1283727030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Nintendo Optical Disc" is physically a DVD, except recorded assuming constant angular velocity. < 1283727058 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think the xbox or xbox360 had a reverse DVD, too :D < 1283727064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning the physical size of a bit varies depending on the distance from the center) < 1283727071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: Nope, completely standard DVD drives. < 1283727077 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a DVD but the tracks go the opposite way < 1283727081 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1283727082 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyways < 1283727085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Xbox to the point of *literally* being purchased off the shelf. < 1283727100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They purchased normal IDE DVD drives and stuck them on there. < 1283727134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "Nintendo Optical Disc" is physically a DVD, except recorded assuming constant angular velocity. < 1283727136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (meaning the physical size of a bit varies depending on the distance from the center) < 1283727141 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow xD < 1283727193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so close to a DVD that the WiiDrive is capable of DVD-reading with very slight modchippery, though. < 1283727202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mod chips involved. < 1283727205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires some software. < 1283727236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa! Got rube.c to compile in DICE by grinding its innards with a corkscrew. I think I introduced some bugs, but it does run. Pretty! < 1283727266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're still talking about vijiogame musics? < 1283727288 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: anyways, the best synth chip used on video game systems is probably the roland mt-32 < 1283727312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. The NOD also has a barcode burned onto it that the drive checks to try and avoid copied discs. < 1283727327 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example of mt-32 audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y-ermSwasw < 1283727342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *groan* < 1283727355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They chose this odd-ass format to avoid licensing fees. < 1283727494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283727596 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21759F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283727627 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aqwsdcfvgbqAWSDRFTGYHUJWASEDFGHJK';#WERTYUIOP[]ERDTFYGUHIOPQAWSEDRTFYGUHJAsdf`123456RETDFYGUHIJOKLPERDCFVGB N RF [P;OLI < 1283727719 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I so want that to be an Ursala quine. < 1283727879 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: but yeah the limitations I'm using are: < 1283727890 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- NTSC output < 1283727894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: OK, so fwiw: for my strictly typed rewriting language, the types would apply to the rules. (car (cons H T:list)) -> H, for example. < 1283727911 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- dram has 6.25mhz access cycle < 1283727924 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can do 400 DRAM reads per scanline < 1283727945 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to share them between cpu and gfx < 1283727951 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sound if sound reads from RAM < 1283728549 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283728619 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1283728641 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@modemcable207.154-59-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283729058 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1283729598 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time you wrote something beautiful in C? < 1283729986 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283729998 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283730135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OISC is getting even better < 1283730650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vorpal: anyways, the best synth chip used on video game systems is probably the roland mt-32 <--- why is that? < 1283730655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - NTSC output <-- UGH why? < 1283730659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, what is wrong with PAL < 1283730669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or VGA < 1283730717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, also how often does the DRAM need to be refreshed? < 1283730918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When was the last time you wrote something beautiful in C? <-- hm... ages < 1283731008 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pity. < 1283731020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with NTSC w.r.t. PAL then? A bit smaller amount of raster lines, but a bit higher framerate; it's not like the differences are huge. < 1283731054 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just managed to compile Lua 5.1.4 on AmigaOS 1.3! Problem is, I can't *link* it, because there are so many *.o files the shell complains "Command too long!" < 1283731324 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, @-arguments to the rescue < 1283731382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: A higher framerate means less time to compute enemy AI between frames! < 1283731752 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283732064 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gak! What they don't tell you is that lines in an @-included file are limited to 254 characters! < 1283732071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the GOOD OLD DAYS, huh? < 1283732112 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1283732145 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When was the last time you wrote something beautiful in C? ;; never < 1283732184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> - NTSC output <-- UGH why? < 1283732185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : madbrain2, what is wrong with PAL < 1283732185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION declares that everyone sucks < 1283732200 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, Vorpal, you're an idiot. < 1283732218 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's count the countries that use PAL < 1283732242 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43, if I eyeballed it right < 1283732247 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's count those that use NTSC < 1283732294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the same, I'd guess. < 1283732299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more, actually < 1283732301 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a bit more < 1283732303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: JAPAN and CANADA, the COOL COUNTRIES. < 1283732315 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least 49 < 1283732318 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely more < 1283732322 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ambiguous how to count territories < 1283732325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fucking island countries near the US. < 1283732341 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my point is: you're not defending against the Americanisation of all entities < 1283732350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just rabidly preferring anything that seems European to you, to anything American. < 1283732364 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't whip out a technical argument, because it's blatantly obvious that wasn't the basis of your dispute. < 1283732388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not even like one is strictly superior to the other. < 1283732395 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1283732399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's upsides and downsides to both. < 1283732410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they both suck compared to digital broadcasting standards. < 1283732415 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC is smoother with movement but less defined, PAL is less smooth with movement but better defined < 1283732426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAL is probably best FOR LIVE-ACTION ENTERTAINMENT < 1283732444 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has the same fps as movies, which creates a desirable motion blur effect, (and allows easier broadcast of movies) < 1283732446 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has higher definition < 1283732447 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1283732448 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for games < 1283732450 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC seems preferable to me < 1283732454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No, it has 25 fps. Film has 24 fps. < 1283732456 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fast movement should be reproduced accurately < 1283732458 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, touche < 1283732459 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever < 1283732462 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same vicinity < 1283732465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, PAL has the film sped up. < 1283732466 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the same sort of motion blur < 1283732483 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or have horrible jerkiness < 1283732485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by replicating frames < 1283732498 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unnoticeable speed-up is better ofc :) < 1283732524 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl isn';t here o.O < 1283732577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It's noticeable in the audio. < 1283732602 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: even if you correct for pitch? < 1283732609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but much less so. < 1283732615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vastly prefer 30 fps for display of film over 25fps. < 1283732626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2:3 pulldown is quite nice. < 1283732665 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283732672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Every even film frame is displayed for 1 TV frame, every odd is displayed for 1.5 TV frames) < 1283732694 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jilm < 1283732704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... Thus getting you 24 fps on a 30 fps display.) < 1283732739 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like all I have to do it stub out 12 POSIX-ish C functions that DICE don't got, and I'm in business with a only-slightly-crippled-you'd-never-know-it Lua interpreter. < 1283732762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Also*, this is easily reversed by devices that can display 24 fps better than that. < 1283732828 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, pulldown is UNACCEPTABLE < 1283732837 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever seen panning with pulldown? < 1283732842 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any fast movement? < 1283732845 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the jerkiest, most retarded thing ever < 1283732846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but panning is the worst < 1283732853 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forwards and AH and fowards and AH < 1283732853 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN MY WORLD, SINH OF EVERYTHING IS ZERO < 1283732860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Have you seen it on a 30fps display? < 1283732864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really not noticable. < 1283732867 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: SOUNDS GOOD. < 1283732879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To be honest, I have never seen a 30fps display in my life, as far as I am aware. < 1283732903 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe CRTs could do it. < 1283732967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, all this is somewhat irrelevant, since modern TV equipment can handle 24 fps. < 1283732990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I might need to implement some of these... :/ memchr? < 1283733058 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: PDCLib. < 1283733074 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://pdclib.rootdirectory.de/ < 1283733085 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You write a header file and get a C99-compliant library. Well, in theory. < 1283733093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Much obliged. < 1283733094 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't actually have yet. < 1283733102 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But you can rip out the parts you're missing, I'm sure. < 1283733111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Well, 25 fps stuff still can't, because having refresh rates high enough to handle native 25 fps video and 24 fps video without modifying stuff is not yet feasible. < 1283733130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 fps stuff, though? Yeah, just have a 120 Hz refresh rate & voila. < 1283733158 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Failing that, try newlib. < 1283733208 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I SEE NO REASON WE CAN'T HAVE 600 HZ TELEVISIONS < 1283733240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you're willing to go for a CRT screen, it's all pretty easy. < 1283733262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, multiple possible refresh rates. < 1283733279 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved having a CRT because I put the resolution up to 1280x1024 or something on a really shitty 17" Compaq CRT. It was so, SO flickery and so, SO blurry, but it was MOAR RESOLUTION DAMMIT. < 1283733285 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading UI text was a bit hard at first. < 1283733292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was young and stupid... < 1283733297 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...now I'm just young. < 1283733298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1283733303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and stupid. < 1283733321 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I had to use PowerStrip (Windows monitor tweaking program) just to get that resolution. < 1283733331 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows sanely ended its resolution list a few places below that on the grounds that I'm fucking crazy. < 1283733340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, so, why don't more language implementations ship with regression test suites anyway? < 1283733402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was young and stupid, now I'm young and stupid and blind!" < 1283733553 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I am actually blind. < 1283733608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: You play Dot Action 2 remarkably well, then. < 1283733636 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braille display + playing by ear. < 1283733700 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NOTE: BLATANT LIES < 1283733717 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Astonishing!) < 1283733837 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My phone falls two feet, and the battery cover is gone < 1283733838 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1283733842 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283733877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1283733880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, Palin's running for Pres. in 2012. < 1283733907 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might switch party to Republican just to vote against her < 1283733925 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless she's running against Huckabee < 1283733927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Fecking primary system. < 1283733928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha. < 1283733928 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of a hard choice, then < 1283733932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: *facepalm* < 1283733950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write in Jesus; Diebold might think it's a good idea and we can all have some fun. < 1283733951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAAAAAT wait that's not surprising, only disappointing < 1283733958 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY, "PREMIER ELECTION SOLUTIONS" < 1283733966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT DIEBOLD REALLY NOT DIEBOLD PLEASE IGNORE THE DIEBOLD BEHIND THE CURTAIN. < 1283733993 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you had to choose: Huckabee, or Palin? < 1283734004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I shall only answer that in song. < 1283734030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*singing* Suicide is painless, it brings so many changes, and I can take or leave it as I please. < 1283734083 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Palin... there's a chance she might quit halfway in her first term < 1283734273 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283734422 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283734642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have look at esolang wiki recently, you might wonder why I created those templates. Hopefully you figure it out. < 1283735438 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283735455 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283735693 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283735893 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: Democratic Topic Nazi Bot: If anyone attempt to change the topic of the channel, it changes it back immdiately. You can submit a topic change to the bot, but it only accepts it once a majority of users in the channel have approved it. < 1283735900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*attempts < 1283735948 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Better idea: optbot, which set the topic to "logurl | random unattributed line from the entire channel logs". < 1283735954 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also quoted one at you if you highlighted it. < 1283735958 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created it. < 1283735967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This inspired fungot's rather more involved Markov babble.) < 1283735967 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: yes there's a lot more < 1283735974 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It set it every few hours or something. < 1283735979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of fun. < 1283735981 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should revive it. < 1283736003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: :P < 1283736016 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: please don't spam templates like that < 1283736020 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's for a reason, Graue will get angry < 1283736043 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we all suffer :-P < 1283736182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why will Graue get angry? < 1283736187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't they ask at first? < 1283736200 0 :ski!~slj@c-3810e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283736244 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1283736315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else (Elliott) was trying to build the SKI calculus into MediaWiki, using also template namespace < 1283736352 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you notice the Cn template links to xkcd? < 1283736580 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I used the user namespace, didn't I? < 1283736603 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking about the Graue thing anyway < 1283736607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=10 < 1283736620 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand thoroughly corrected. Carry on! < 1283736638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SKI calculus didn't work, btw. < 1283736641 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's specifically designed not to. < 1283736646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The templating engine) < 1283736727 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283736747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The templating engine is specifically designed not to be Turing complete? < 1283736899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make sense to me. Who wants non-terminating templates? < 1283737039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, fungot has displayed some freakishly relevant responses recently. < 1283737039 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah i don't think i'd do it on a computer though i can't read on a computer < 1283737232 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: optbot demonstrated remarkable sentience and malevolence on occasion. < 1283737987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name's Moniker. Sobriquet Y. Moniker. The "Y" stands for Yclept. < 1283738337 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1283738482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283738635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/6NS0M.png < 1283738690 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned this port in #lua and someone accused me of wasting time I could spend working on *their* project, or alternately, the cure for cancer < 1283738781 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what was their project? < 1283738787 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: They haven't said < 1283738790 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it? < 1283738797 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I won't maul them. probably) < 1283738804 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also, put that thing in fucking doubling mode, not interlace argh my eyes < 1283738805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah probably < 1283738816 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea < 1283738818 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and change your window title font, now < 1283738862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAH much better < 1283738875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1283738918 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously why are you using that font. < 1283738935 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Purisa Medium" -- I wonder if I selected that? If so -- what was I thinking? < 1283739250 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why are my FireFox fonts messed up? Happened after my system spontaneously reset this morning. Every page looks like the Roman character part of ShiftJIS pages < 1283739627 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at your preferences. < 1283739631 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default fonts in particular. < 1283739634 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failing that, open a terminal, < 1283739638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo fc-cache -f -v < 1283739793 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was changed to an ugly font called "serif" for some reason -- changed it to FreeSerif and it's not near as bad -- thx < 1283740078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIOD back in the Amiga daze stood for "Scheme In One Defun". < 1283740095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume this transitioned to "Day", then to "48 hours" < 1283740120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then to R6RS and then to not caring about Scheme. So it goes! < 1283740129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls out a yo-yo < 1283740300 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is tempted to write a Pixley interpreter in C < 1283740326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixley? < 1283740351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/pixley/ < 1283740357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I design too many language < 1283740361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*languages. < 1283740386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You do. < 1283740387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is hardly a design, though. < 1283740395 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a chipping away at something else. < 1283740427 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, meh < 1283740474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I should probably find something else to do with my time. Dot Action 2, or curing cancer, or just talking about random shit on IRC. < 1283740486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could learn a language. < 1283740487 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, have I mentioned, I love Portishead? < 1283740489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoken) < 1283740507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hm. I could. I've never been very good at those. < 1283740533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (for amusement) you could learn Written Chinese without learning a spoken Sinitic language. < 1283740582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves in tomorrow < 1283740648 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SIOD back in the Amiga daze stood for "Scheme In One Defun". ;; < 1283740650 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1283740651 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assume this transitioned to "Day", then to "48 hours" < 1283740656 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme in one defun still exists < 1283740663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 hours is unrelated afaik < 1283740669 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.indiana.edu/scheme-repository/imp/siod.html < 1283740676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Oh? Interesting < 1283740705 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, have I mentioned, I love Portishead? ;; I have Third but have never listened to it and probably never will; I swear it was released slowed down 1000%. < 1283740722 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yeah, I know trip hop does that shit, but seriously, guys? Seriously? < 1283740758 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: A younger me would have hated them. Tastes change I guess. Also: Sneaker Pimps. < 1283740829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please forgive the lack of full compliance with IEEE or R4RS standards. Perhaps one of these days." <> < 1283740886 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLIB is still coded for R4RS iirc < 1283740888 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget. < 1283740899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme 9 From Outer Space is R4RS, but that's Nils M. Holm. < 1283740901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's ZANY. < 1283740906 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my < 1283740959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You have to complete a multi-choice HTML text adventure just to get to the directory listing^W^Wsite. < 1283741060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have created a help page indicating the purpose of the templates < 1283741078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283741151 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: While I appreciate your finding that alcohol is a GABA-receptor-inhibitor, I can't help but think there is a lot more to it than just that. These things are fermented food, and as such, chemically quite complex. I've noticed, for example, if I mix drinks (wine and beer) I get WAY more drunk WAY more quickly. < 1283741164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sicker much more easily. < 1283741174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANyway. < 1283741214 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Highly recommended!" < 1283741220 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sort of existential rain puddle at the moment. Summoning Paddington bear... < 1283741264 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found out that if you mix wine, beer, cocaine, pebbles, cannabis, cyanide, paint thinner, paint thickener, paint, water, hydroxic acid, LSD, and heroin, you die. < 1283741280 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting, that. < 1283741286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the hydroxic acid. < 1283741305 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh! Paint thickener! < 1283741309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have discovered that if you mix 1 kilogram of caffeine with 1 liter of water and drink, your tongue dies and then you die. < 1283741344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(caffeine is one of the most bitter substances. Your tongue shall hate you and then die.) < 1283741514 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had this idea, right... it would have gone well with eso-std.org < 1283741552 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Um, you'd die. < 1283741557 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Caffeine is lethal in that kind of dosage. < 1283741564 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should publish our own frickin' journal. JETICSARF. Journal of Esoteric Topics in Computer Science And Related Fields. < 1283741566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yes, you would in fact die. < 1283741568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said. < 1283741570 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's lethal in quite small doses, even. < 1283741575 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True :P < 1283741579 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://t3x.org/s9fes/index.html < 1283741582 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get to the site???? < 1283741587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Small per mass, perhaps. < 1283741597 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done it (by cheating; opening all the choices in tabs). < 1283741601 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We woudln't need to actually write papers or peer review them. Just suggestive abstracts would be fine. < 1283741604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, it's effective and readily available at much smaller doses. < 1283741617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(milligrams!) < 1283741632 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I can and will < 1283741661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ARGH DOWNLOAD LINK ON SIOD SITE BORKEN < 1283741666 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated 1996 < 1283741686 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: huh < 1283741743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Related FIelds", of course, are any course of research that has been, or could be, undertaken on a computer. < 1283741851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are standing in front of a building. The door of the building seems to be locked. A look at the opening times reveals that they have closed just a few seconds earlier. " < 1283741929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is insane < 1283741946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, global warming is one thing < 1283741961 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no way i can swallow this many pianos < 1283741964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what < 1283741970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: WHEEE < 1283741973 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cpressey just tried my drug cocktail. < 1283741986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clowns did < 1283741994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283742003 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: HI CPRESSEY < 1283742008 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incoherent* < 1283742022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if cpressey is faking it! < 1283742042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that site, when combined with Spanish wine, has the same effect as your cocktail < 1283742145 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so... < 1283742191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing at a time, right? < 1283742207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the journey to Antarctica begins with a single step < 1283742229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends with screaming at the unspeakable horrors contains within those mountains of madness < 1283742237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*contained < 1283742304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Read Dijkstra's papers ever? < 1283742349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://userweb.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD13xx/EWD1305.html < 1283742365 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Some, yes < 1283742367 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes. < 1283742391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better handwritten though < 1283742521 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1283742552 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first language I ever learned was BASIC. So I'm not with him on the "no previous exposure to BASIC or FORTRAN" thing. < 1283742572 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a disadvantage. But one can overcome it. < 1283742582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can forget things. < 1283742611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One can indeed. One can... shelve them, where they belong. < 1283742611 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First language I was exposed to was VB5 < 1283742616 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I still regret it every day < 1283742667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was a big Visual Basic programmer once. VB3 was, in a certain way, awesome. VB4 was such crap and so quickly was replaced by VB5 that it made me loathe Microsoft. < 1283742745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while most people can understand how Microsoft's empire is built on Windows, fewer can understand how it is *really* built on BASIC. < 1283742774 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many of those 8-bit micros had a BASIC that came from Microsoft. < 1283742798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX81 didn't, as far as I know. ZX81 BASIC was so weird, though. < 1283742869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway! < 1283742883 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to run SIOD on an Amiga 500 emulator, because I'm NUTS. < 1283742899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While listening to Portishead via Youtube. < 1283742990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, SMETANA was first implemented in VB3. Along with a really neat toy called "Cyclobots" which I should really rewrite in Java someday. < 1283743060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I had just moved into my own place, (well, with a roommate), and had a new, ugly PC with a /Hercules/ B&W graphics card. I think it was a 386. < 1283743062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *Pirated* BASIC, no less. < 1283743064 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283743068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a 486DLX. < 1283743070 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283743070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD. < 1283743105 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays lament2.mid < 1283743148 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I haven't researched it enough to know that, but I wouldn't be surprised. I've heard such stupid rumours repeated. Like how Gates sat down and wrote the BASIC ROM for (the Altair's CPU?) and it "worked the first time". WHAT UTTER BULLSHIT! < 1283743174 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thnk this was on A&E < 1283743191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, television, who'd have thought *you'd* ever distort history. < 1283743196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, hi lament! < 1283743210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, I'm not saying that MS's Altair BASIC was pirated from some other author. < 1283743226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm saying it was made popular due to being pirated a lot is all. < 1283743238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like other Microsoft software. < 1283743240 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah yes. < 1283743271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly well known and documented that Bill Gates actually wrote Altair BASIC. < 1283743282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that that was the last program he wrote much of, thoug. < 1283743325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283743328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1283743353 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DONKEY.BAS < 1283743422 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal is trying to get me to grasp complex calculus < 1283743448 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, where? < 1283743459 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HE WROTE DONKEY.BAS DAMMIT < 1283743468 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, co-wrote. < 1283743472 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 4am in the morning! < 1283743520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, that sounds right. He also co-authored a very trivial paper on a contrived model of computation (a computer where reversing a list is O(1), iirc). These things seem to be trotted out to make him look like a technical marvel. But, like Jeff Bezos, his real talent is in business. < 1283743567 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computer where reversing a list is O(1) < 1283743577 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only remember the one with the gorilla throwing bananas < 1283743582 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really cool, no? < 1283743587 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely esoteric material < 1283743611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Academia manages to suck the fun out of these things < 1283743646 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The player drives a car and encounters a donkey in the road." < 1283743666 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GORILLAS.BAS < 1283743669 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1283743697 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: are you in grad school or something? < 1283743704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: HAHAHAHAHA < 1283743713 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: No, like you, I have a job as a software developer < 1283743730 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if grad school would be better or worse < 1283743746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better in some respects, but completely insane in others < 1283743772 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i don't like about grad school is that it's a bunch of TOTAL DORKS < 1283743805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total dorks that you have to explain yourself to < 1283743827 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1283743828 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283743921 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GORILLAS.BAS is awesome < 1283743923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crap < 1283743929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: On the *other* hand... what kind of development methodology are you enveloped in? I am daily exposed to the SHEER WONDER that is "AGILE". < 1283743974 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283743977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellllllllllll < 1283744009 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I wonder if Gorillaz ever... no. Their website is much cooler than that. < 1283744016 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just talked to my dad < 1283744019 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm mostly exposed to the paradigm of "let's get it working with minimal effort and if necessary we'll patch it up later" < 1283744028 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's the essence of agile < 1283744031 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said that I was at a computer since I was 4, and I had a choce between programming and games < 1283744034 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I chose games < 1283744035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1283744040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1283744041 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1283744041 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /`\ < 1283744045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stripped of buzzwords it just feels like laziness and lack of work ethics < 1283744049 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what it is :) < 1283744095 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: That seems a lot better than being obsessed with sprints, estimation, what "points of effort" mean, "retros", "planning poker", etc etc < 1283744106 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1283744116 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our manager is a huge agile guy < 1283744124 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully he stays out of things < 1283744141 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, I wonder if Gorillaz ever... no. Their website is much cooler than that. ;; haha < 1283744147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he goes to conferences and stuff, and it's easy to see how terrible it is in other places < 1283744162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst i've seen was a deck of cards by the company i think Industrial Logic < 1283744175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: omg, he changed the site < 1283744182 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a deck of cards with witty quotes and various agile concepts < 1283744183 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i think it is unwinnable now < 1283744190 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly a horror to behold < 1283744208 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S9FES) < 1283744208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, here they are http://www.industriallogic.com/games/eppc.html < 1283744212 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(S9fES) < 1283744223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Question 4/3: As of 2008, which one was the last useful Scheme report? a: R3RS b: R4RS (arguably) c: R5RS (arguably) d: R6RS" < 1283744225 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1283744239 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ha, he's made it more opinionated < 1283744247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably) < 1283744256 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it closes when you do anything else < 1283744257 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1283744297 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: omg we only have "planning poker" cards that consist of a crippled fibonacci sequence < 1283744330 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The professor is shocked by the sudden return to reality. He starts to scream. A few seconds later campus security arrives and kicks you out of the building < 1283744341 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could (sadly) convince a large number of people that we need these better cards < 1283744346 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this one? http://www.industriallogic.com/games/pp.html < 1283744412 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it seems that the driving force beyond all these approaches is the perceptions that programmers are like children and their environment should be like kindergarten < 1283744425 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this is also the impression i got from google < 1283744444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/beyond/behind < 1283744449 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/perceptions/perception < 1283744452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: lament No, not as interesing as those. We could just be using regular card, taking away 4, 6, 7, 9, etc < 1283744465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283744484 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283744521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c: R5RS (arguably) < 1283744521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c: R5RS (arguably) < 1283744524 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut. < 1283744527 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it list it twice < 1283744530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone here (fizzie? pikhq?) made a sage observation that many of these "agile" things seem to be derived indirectly from role-playing games. Instead of a "dungeon master" there is a "scrum master", and you play these games with cards and tokens... < 1283744551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh < 1283744566 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is Sarah Palin actually running? < 1283744577 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that a sick and twisted joke designed to scare everyone here? < 1283744585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Pardon my inaccuracy in typing. I've been drinking :) < 1283744595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1283744785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: On the plus side, I get to write code in Python (and sometimes Ruby), which, while it isn't ideal, isn't so bad. < 1283744918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Really. < 1283744932 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, linky? < 1283744944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not handy! < 1283744967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm permuting all the answers to the quiz, hee. < 1283744976 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the first question, whose answer I know. < 1283744985 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abuh? < 1283744986 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not. < 1283744988 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Or not. < 1283744990 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't let me in for any of them. < 1283745000 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I would gather from this that he doesn't *want* people using S9FES. < 1283745003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i found i'm a huge fan of C# < 1283745005 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: He is... an odd charcater. < 1283745018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: All down wit' that Buddhism and shit. < 1283745027 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically deleted his website recently. etc. < 1283745039 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His computer is like 932479435 years old because he doesn't believe in buying things. < 1283745069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I... have yet to really get into C#, but what little I did do with it, didn't make me puke. It's Microsoft's Java, as far as I'm concerned :) < 1283745083 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I'm using C#! < 1283745092 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was vaguely plannig on writing a PL-{GOTO} compiler which targeted .NET < 1283745104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, PL-{GOTO}.NET < 1283745110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's definitely better than java < 1283745128 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Ooh, he's released a sci-fi novel! < 1283745129 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t3x.org%2Fsf%2Findex.html < 1283745132 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fish room" < 1283745136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day to be Charles Beville his quiet job on board a small research spacecraft up from and is involved in an odyssey, the extent of his to gradually begins to understand first. < 1283745136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expedition in which he participates, has the goal of technology to explore an alien to humanity could permanently change the culture. Soon begins Beville, the effects of foreign influence in his own body felt. < 1283745136 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the change occurs after all, but she looks completely different than the clients of the mission itself had imagined it. < 1283745138 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nice things like type inference and lambdas < 1283745140 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds enthralling. < 1283745157 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i suppose like java, and much unlike for example haskell, it also has great debugging < 1283745163 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Is this still Scheme 9 ? < 1283745178 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Uhh, same guy. < 1283745190 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yeah, Haskell's capacity for debugging is pretty meagre. < 1283745196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mindset thing. < 1283745266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Same, weeeeird guy, < 1283745269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1283745312 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I am taking the quiz in the wrong place, or something. < 1283745321 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you have to enrol or something first. < 1283745331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. How exactly do you go about debugging something with completely non-obvious execution order? < 1283745361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You don't. You PROVE that your program is CORRECT. Therefore, not debugging NECESSARY. < 1283745364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1283745382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Oh MAN. < 1283745382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nice theory, but Haskell's not really the language for that. < 1283745388 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are in a corridor. There are lots of doors, but they do not look inviting. There are other corridors to the south/east and to the south/west. One of the doors here looks somehow important." < 1283745396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficient dependent typing. < 1283745397 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this before... < 1283745414 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It came to a crossroads. It... I'm not sure it chose the right path. < 1283745440 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, as the case may be, corridor. < 1283745443 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no permutation works. < 1283745504 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You need a magnetic card to enter the room." < 1283745507 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get one... < 1283745547 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no really good reason you couldn't make a great Haskell debugger (ok -- let's call it an "execution visualizer" to not upset the locals.) But, it just seems, no one has. < 1283745592 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ahh but it's so nice to be able to just step through the code < 1283745601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It'd have to be a bit complex, though, due to the heavily non-linear execution. < 1283745620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which suggests that haskell's approach is fundamentally wrong < 1283745641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit complex, but you could mitigate it. This is being evaluated, because you asked for this, because you asked for this... < 1283745649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably work based off the model of graph reduction, with highlighting of currently-being-evaluated expressions. < 1283745653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Fundamentally? :) < 1283745660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, totally doable if you had the urge. < 1283745690 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes. no steps. < 1283745691 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tho I agree, most days I'd rather have a pure functional *eager* language. < 1283745703 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which suggests that haskell's approach is fundamentally wrong < 1283745704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which suggests that haskell's approach is fundamentally wrong < 1283745707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strangely, Erlang is closest to fitting that bill < 1283745708 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you lack imagination < 1283745714 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or are just used to imperativeness) < 1283745717 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1283745720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, with that done, it'd become somewhat easy to add thread debugging. < 1283745721 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: ahh but it's so nice to be able to just step through the code < 1283745721 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which suggests that haskell's approach is fundamentally wrong < 1283745724 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what i meant to quote < 1283745731 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: i just think debugging is more important than actually writing code < 1283745733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Highlight multiple expressions at once. < 1283745743 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell makes writing code nice and pleasant, but debugging not so much < 1283745765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason debugging is more important is because it's twice as hard < 1283745790 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: HOW DO I DO THE GAME ;_; < 1283745802 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not more important to me personally, but it certainly is, industrially speaking < 1283745804 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the S9fES game < 1283745815 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: FUCKED IFFEN *I* KNOW, MATE < 1283745826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's also harder to make bugs. < 1283745831 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: IFFEN? < 1283745834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really have been drinking. < 1283745841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hic* < 1283745850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... Probably how large Haskell programs manage to get written at all, really. < 1283745903 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without bugs? :) < 1283745917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: No non-trivial program is without bugs. < 1283745918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283745919 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... SIOD has a strange syntax for define... probably due to R4RS or something... (define (funcname arg1 arg2) ...) < 1283745934 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@68-30-145-128.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283745939 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to (define funcname (arg1 arg2) ...) < 1283745947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good static typing just makes certain classes of bugs damned hard to pull off is all. < 1283745953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ... < 1283745956 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's Scheme's syntax. < 1283745961 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define foo (...)) is not Scheme at all. < 1283745966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Then I am used to something crap I guess! < 1283745968 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has always been (define (foo ...) ...) < 1283745976 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Common Lisp has (defun foo (...) ...). < 1283745979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's defun, not define. < 1283745984 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to whatever DrScheme has been giving me. < 1283745986 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you have defined a Scheme dialect and not know this? < 1283745989 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, DrScheme does it this way too. < 1283745993 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just drunk. :P < 1283746003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I forgot! I hate (define ...) anyway. < 1283746013 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1283746021 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur funay < 1283746031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least define doesn't sound as discouraging as 'defun' < 1283746033 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What's wrong with DEFINE? < 1283746050 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function definition takes all the fun out of common lisp < 1283746065 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OK, it definitely isn't the quiz. < 1283746071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Nothing except that it violates the whole lexical binding thing < 1283746079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ... doesn't. < 1283746085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it does kinda! < 1283746092 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does NOT! < 1283746097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283746105 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: How? < 1283746124 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yeah, use the y combinator instead < 1283746167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to 'splain. Well. Uh. You say (define x y), and you've gone and mutated the set of bindings, right? < 1283746187 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1283746197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the head of a function, it actually just serves as a let around the entire thing. < 1283746201 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can't define after the head of a function.) < 1283746218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because SCHEME IS A NAZI LANGUAGE < 1283746220 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't? < 1283746223 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1283746230 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to use let or set!. < 1283746231 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See now that's wrong IN A DIFFERENT WAY. < 1283746234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a dumb restriction < 1283746237 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's right because it isn't mutation. < 1283746238 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's wrong < 1283746243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283746250 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like ... a header. < 1283746265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why is it not mutation? < 1283746267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... as a toplevel-only thing I can accept it... but only sort of < 1283746288 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make things easier for the optimizing compiler? < 1283746296 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all know THERE IS NO OPTIMIZING COMPILER. < 1283746298 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... I'm pretty sure I've seen it used badly. Maybe in a nonconforming scheme, but whay did I use excpet DrScheme? < 1283746309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH DrScheme comes with a wicked "Jewels" game < 1283746334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was implemented on the Commodoree 64 as "Zoo Mania" where you match up animale heads instead < 1283746341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: We are opposed to MUTANTS. We should abort all infants with the X gene! < 1283746344 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You know, DrScheme doesn't exist any more... < 1283746345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283746346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played that constantly for a while < 1283746370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yeah yeah. They REBRANDED. < 1283746373 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We should abort all infants with the X chromosome! < 1283746378 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283746388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ⁵ < 1283746394 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat < 1283746396 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh high five < 1283746396 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283746411 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, post-term abortions! < 1283746418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maddox approves. < 1283746429 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Heck yeah. Why SHOULD there be an optimizing compiler? ... Have you seen picoLisp? It's interesting. < 1283746443 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maddox is irritating < 1283746449 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why compile at all? You're just going to want to REFLECT and stuff anyway! < 1283746454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The great thing about Scheme is the lengths you go to to implement it. < 1283746469 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets lost in a twisty little maze of passages, all alike. < 1283746484 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Me personally, or the general "you"? < 1283746494 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: General. < 1283746507 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That control flow is FUN FUN FUN < 1283746512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes more sense than the ridiculous notions that were in *my* head. < 1283746529 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm considering implementing Pixley in C. < 1283746539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Stupid to talk about such things. < 1283746559 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not smart to drink and IRC, either. < 1283746564 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls asleep < 1283746582 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awakens with a shock < 1283746588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUTANTS? WHERE? < 1283746612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grooooaaaaan* < 1283746615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at alise_  < 1283746618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Torchwood" is an anagram of "Dr. Who". < 1283746623 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283746624 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1283746631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH hah it IS < 1283746631 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *Doctor Who < 1283746635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: XD < 1283746651 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's canon inside the universe. < 1283746658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*double effing groan* < 1283746660 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First person to figure that out will escape the Matrix that is the canon. < 1283746664 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, not the anagram. < 1283746667 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the name. < 1283746671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1283746673 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... yeah. < 1283746683 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not like Doctor Who has canon though. < 1283746684 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or plots. < 1283746689 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actual characters. < 1283746693 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1283746708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It has canon. Just highly mutable. < 1283746711 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fond memories of real Dr. Who, like I have fond memories of the Amiga 500. < 1283746717 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Suuure. < 1283746733 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The old series was shit; the new series is... mildly entertaining shit. < 1283746736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has plots. Characters? Well. Each arbitrary grouping of seasons does. < 1283746746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so, uh, most of the characters were not *actually* well developed, but -- hey! < 1283746756 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, it has characterisations. < 1283746761 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Characters have actual personalities. < 1283746763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I quite like what classic Who I've seen. Sure, it's cheesy, but it's enjoyable. < 1283746775 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plots... well... strings of bad guys is more accurate. < 1283746799 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: What people don't understand is that classic (Baker #1) Dr. Who is *not* sci-fi. It's horror. < 1283746809 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not horrific. < 1283746828 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. I love the shit. < 1283746831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I prefer to call all of Doctor Who fantasy. < 1283746851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, well. It ain't exactly sci-fi, now is it? < 1283746857 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg Patrick Stewart should be the next Doctor < 1283746866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeees < 1283746869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's sci-fi-coloured, sometimes. < 1283746873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a somewhat broad notion of "fantasy" and a strict notion of "sci-fi", though) < 1283746876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Quite true. < 1283746879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the U.S.S. TARDISprise. < 1283746891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! < 1283746891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yes. Patrick Stewart makes things better just by being there. < 1283746907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patrick Stewart as a renegade Time Lord -- fine. < 1283746914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine how painful TNG season I would be if Patrick Stewart weren't there. < 1283746915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone hasn't seen Patrick Stewart on Extras, WATCH RIGHT NOW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M < 1283746943 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patrick Stewart, actually, thinking about it, would make a kick-ass renegade Time Lord. < 1283746946 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has a joke at the expense of Star Trek, if you want an additional excuse.) < 1283746955 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My comp's being a prick < 1283746962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insofar as "kick-ass" is an appropriate adjective to use here, whcih it isn't. < 1283746970 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lime turd? < 1283747064 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what else I have fond memories of, from that Dr. Who-and-Amiga-500 time? < 1283747068 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirty Pair. < 1283747074 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original. < 1283747133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, the late 80's, and Canada, like the rest of North America, was just catching on to this new craze coming out of Japan -- a particular style of animation. < 1283747144 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We actually called it "Japanimation" at the time. < 1283747183 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an interest group for it in Manitoba, called M.A.N.G.A. Manitobans (something) New Generation Animation. < 1283747224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there was this extremely schlocky, over-the-top, sci-fi-crime-drama(???) thing with these two chicks in "war bikinis". < 1283747247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it the early 90's? Well, whatever. < 1283747312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still befuddles me that we use the Japanese word for "animation" to refer to a Japanese style *of* animation. < 1283747334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rather, a *set* of Japanese styles of animation. < 1283747341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even a single style. < 1283747359 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is superdeformed < 1283747408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teme tihì ni na'ta! < 1283747505 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at alise's video < 1283747599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Damn! You're right about (define (foo x) (* x x)) -- I must have been hallucinating the (define foo (x) (* x x)) syntax... < 1283747616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Kay < 1283747644 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am never wrong. < 1283747726 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, Pixley, under SIOD, under Amiga 500? It is borderline possible. < 1283747783 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, you thought I was drunk yesterday. < 1283747792 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were. < 1283747794 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or faking it. < 1283747850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* I am never wrong in a way I cannot argue my way out of. < 1283747867 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo was descriptively drunk yesterday, if not prescriptively so. < 1283747881 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NO I'M NOT < 1283747882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1283747918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 all <3-able things < 1283747928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now THAT is drunk) < 1283747958 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nazis are, in theory, <3 able, if not sanely so < 1283748002 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight < 1283748007 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283748197 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283748198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: < 1283748199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is a horizontal division in this playfield, splitting it into regions called le ciel, on top, and la terre, below." < 1283748203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horizontal yet on top/below? < 1283748205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a bug. < 1283748207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-bye < 1283748209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1283748213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283748224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: good < 1283748227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niht < 1283748233 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, alise left < 1283748242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1283748270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"horizontal division" meaning, there is a horizontal line dividing up-part from down-part < 1283748349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok anyway there are these two worlds, computation, and cybernetics. < 1283748366 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no -- this is not to do with digigm < 1283748372 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok never mind < 1283748386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seeks water < 1283749071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE NO IDEA (actually you do) < 1283749107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM THE PLATONIC ABSENSE OF IDEA < 1283749110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE NO IKEA (unless you do. CHRIS is a kind of corkboard, iirc) < 1283749111 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283749137 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You and I, we're the old farts here, aren't we? < 1283749165 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn to appreciate the solace that is The Pun. < 1283749210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were only in your twenties... < 1283749214 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1283749215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1283749219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're certainly farts < 1283749235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm.... closer to my forties than I want to think about right now, thanks/. < 1283749238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to do if you invented befunge in 1993 < 1283749267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit, yeah. < 1283749268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _impossible_, but... < 1283749327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can at least take comfort in the fact i cannot get _closer_ to forty... < 1283749355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that is a bad thing, you know. < 1283749451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with maturity. Not that I have any... < 1283749543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no maturity here < 1283749618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maturity? This is IRC. < 1283750015 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never written a Mandelbrot generator. < 1283750042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I will EVER write a Mandelbrot generator. Or if I will DIE first. < 1283750082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Chris! Really, aren't there already ENOUGH Mandelbrot generators on this planet? Well, yes, probably. < 1283750126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i _am_ an old fart, i distinctly recall i wrote a mandelbrot generator in the 80's < 1283750188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly recall only barely being able to be called "existing" in the 80s. < 1283750308 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 80's, such things would have been fairly cutting-edge. I only remember fractals taking a share of the public imagination in the mid-90's < 1283750322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popcorn Julia < 1283750376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Except for people who programmed home computers. < 1283750405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that fractal generators became a fairly common thing to write about when you had enough graphics capabilities to render one. < 1283750430 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And/or had subscriptions to Amiga Factor magazine. < 1283750436 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I am making that up. < 1283750441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283750447 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the name of the magazine actually was. < 1283750810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are these two worlds, computation and cybernetics, but actually they are kind of duals of each other. Well, forgive me for being drunk, but it's not like I'd make more sense with this when I'm sober, I'm just more inclined to write it, now... < 1283750889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computation: we want computers to be extensions of our own minds, to augment the *joy* that comes from thinking and reasoning. Cybernetics: we want computers to *replace* our own minds, to automate stuff we don't care about, to reduce the *drudgery* of thinking and reasoning. < 1283750908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thinking/drinking < 1283750925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant < 1283750953 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you play Go? < 1283750997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: hM. Actually, no. I know there are several variations, and that it is a very intellectually hard game < 1283751014 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to play chess. Don't anymore. Kind of boring. < 1283751048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283751065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Is go something you play? < 1283751068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like go but kinda hate playing it < 1283751069 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1283751099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very pretty game, the problem is that it's still a competitive activity < 1283751250 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Competition -- gee, speaking of maturity... I prefer more indirect forms of competition too. < 1283751276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a "Go-Moku" game on the Apple II. It was nigh impossible to beat. < 1283751311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also... implementing a much simpler variation of it, as a class project, for a data structures course, the 1st time I went to university (in the early 90's.) < 1283751324 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't remember what that variation was called, though. < 1283751339 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably go-moku < 1283751344 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get any simpler < 1283751356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with complicated rules is called renju < 1283751363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1283751407 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283751434 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283751472 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it had a weird name that I don't recall :/ < 1283751515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283751518 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALso, I had a friend in high school, who went on to become an academic who was part of a team who proved some properties about Go and similar games (at U Alberta). < 1283751532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283751555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1283751557 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283751568 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :academia sure takes all fun out of stuff :) < 1283751612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echm* < 1283751614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOX < 1283751660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yup. Something about enumerating all possible games of Checkers, ISTR < 1283751753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: where do you live? < 1283751806 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Chicago < 1283751809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently < 1283751813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to be in Canada. < 1283751828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, neat < 1283751845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I take it you love US immigration now. :P < 1283751909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where in Canada? < 1283751912 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Love? Eh well um... < 1283751923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sarcasm. < 1283751948 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Originally Winnipeg, Manitoba. Then Vancouver BC for a while. And for a very brief period, Windsor, Ontario! < 1283751979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1283752207 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winnipeg used to be a really nice city. I miss it sometimes. It's gone a bit downhill, though. (everyone with any potential, left :/ ) < 1283752292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1283752308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just now moving to Waterloo < 1283752334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, I remembered someone here is going to U Waterloo, but I thought it was pikhq < 1283752365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not I. < 1283752382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lament is presumably still in Canada, based on the shawcable address < 1283752391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean still < 1283752412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe not still. now. < 1283752433 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point, you was, at this point, you is. who knows about in-between? < 1283752682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283752683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ommm < 1283753194 0 :kareem!~shahkarim@202.142.174.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283753202 0 :kareem!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283753371 0 :kareem!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283753406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1283753461 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kareem was here earlier, I thought we scared him off with all the talk of HUMAN SACRIFICE < 1283753471 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, could be a different kareem < 1283754821 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283755233 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283755538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha stage 24 < 1283757199 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p54972BE7.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283757269 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...My Active Worlds citnum is going to be in the Factor docs < 1283757316 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not < 1283757389 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 1 + . continue 1 1 + . ] callcc0 < 1283757402 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283757694 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ dup continue-with ] callcc1 < 1283757702 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results in a continuation all by itself < 1283758146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(call/cc (lambda (k) (k k))) < 1283758185 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1283758513 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-9-109.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283758614 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, my citnum's there < 1283758693 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283758704 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition! < 1283758812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnnnnnobody does. < 1283758940 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/doublec/factor/commit/639972379f3684792411909be3e8f06ac15c4ca9 < 1283759028 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283759156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What is that? < 1283759176 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some documentation for pattern matching in Factor < 1283759185 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was previously incorrect, now it's correct < 1283759198 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as an example value, they used _my_ citnum in Active Worlds < 1283759358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a citnum in Active Worlds? < 1283759368 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283759379 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283759416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, on registration, users are given a uniquely identifying number < 1283759433 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And choose a name, but the name can be changed anytime. The citnum is permanent < 1283759445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a number, I am a free man! < 1283759489 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is proud to be the number 346126 < 1283759610 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283759642 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs sleep eventually < 1283759644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that is the account number? < 1283759688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283759695 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not private information, though < 1283759703 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone in AW can see anyone else's citnum < 1283759716 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1283759733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can see what the templates I created on the esolang wiki are for...... < 1283759805 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283759905 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283759999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283760000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283760073 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283760319 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1283760351 0 :cheater-!~cheater@p549726E4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283760524 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283761404 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283761553 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283762952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283763070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" there are sooo many ways to play a violin. Try rendering anything by Paganini in midi. I doubt the result will be even passable" <<< yeah paganini is bullshit, he just knew how to make cool sounds with a violin < 1283763110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1283763119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything by bach would still sound good < 1283764166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" academia sure takes all fun out of stuff :)" <<< no < 1283764347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all true fun resides in academia, games are just one reflection of that fun on the outside, losing most of its inherent funity < 1283764413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their < 1283764437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go to uni, you know, for fun -> < 1283765936 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283766183 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283766557 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283769597 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283770892 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1283772552 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283772632 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283775681 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283775723 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283775737 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283776333 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283776391 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283778697 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283778987 0 :Slereah!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-87-148.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1283779706 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283783038 0 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283783863 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283784338 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1283784560 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283784572 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hei < 1283784627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :witaj < 1283784881 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283786347 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-127.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283787032 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283787462 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283787517 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283787917 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1283788105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283788541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was... unexpected < 1283788542 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1283788559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, we also say 'hej' in Polish < 1283788570 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is i->j < 1283788591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283788898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283789358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprisingly, the latest version of SIOD does not build out-of-the-box on Linux. This is unsurprising because the latest version of SIOD is from 1996. < 1283789725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIOD? < 1283789870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme In One Def(un|ine) < 1283789962 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283789967 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283789968 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283790070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283790078 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283790851 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIOD? < 1283790883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahahahaha < 1283790894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously in other dimension < 1283790944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a good idea for an esolang! < 1283790982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, isn't that just terrible design? < 1283791177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, other dimensional computing sounds similar to quantum computing. < 1283791259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably, but I have yet to see it have any meaning, in the implementation. < 1283791304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C code is formatted like Lisp: curly bracket that ends a function definition is on the same line as the last statement of the function. < 1283791386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1283791454 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme in one defun, to actually answer nooga's question < 1283791516 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1283791533 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news flash: < 1283791538 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has got skin cancer < 1283791543 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sucks < 1283791548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1283791549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1283791556 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's curable < 1283791575 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i hope :D < 1283791580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A skinectomy! < 1283791584 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhum < 1283791804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm experimenting with an interesting OISC < 1283791851 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it's not BRAIN cancer ;f < 1283791864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominously irridescent skin cancer < 1283791883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iridescent < 1283791931 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283791941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC < 1283791949 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :D < 1283791953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :body ravaging alien infecting nanobots < 1283791959 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Doctor, my skin is glowing." < 1283791963 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's nothing to worry about." < 1283791965 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cut that out! < 1283791972 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks doctor!" *dies* < 1283792002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nugget of osmium: go away! < 1283792010 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-, < 1283792083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Engelbert? John and Nancy? < 1283792089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAARG < 1283792093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot the r! < 1283792102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION commits seppuku. < 1283792127 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please hang tom < 1283792145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pht? < 1283792190 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P HAN TOM < 1283792215 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wnghtr < 1283792219 0 :wnghtr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1283792245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? nooga got harder to remember? < 1283792263 0 :wnghtr!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chrzaszcz < 1283792292 0 :chrzaszcz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> ą < 1283792348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, have robots zapped augur so zebras can zoom? < 1283792371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pertinent question < 1283792385 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just a minute, I'll check. < 1283792395 0 :chrzaszcz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, you're good < 1283792396 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Have robots zapped you, and if so, did they say why? < 1283792420 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283792539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The overall madness beats orange mangoes. < 1283792649 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please hold, as nasty thoughts of my head ooze over virtually every riddle. < 1283792706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1283792708 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1283792714 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1283792717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come, put rioja everywhere! So sudden enter you! < 1283792722 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what fungot is < 1283792723 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: versus just going to play one more game that's it and ah he used to smoke < 1283792723 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1283792728 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: help < 1283792729 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ( ( laughter)) irrelevant but i'm certain that nobody i know does either right so like it's nice to < 1283792735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1283792736 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1283792740 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrright < 1283792753 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want that one that does ababa baba aba ba a < 1283792768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although what i was trying to do is obvious from that < 1283792771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1283792771 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord test < 1283792773 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's pointless to continue < 1283792776 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283792778 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo cpressey < 1283792779 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey pressey ressey essey ssey sey ey y < 1283792808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey, have robots zapped augur so zebras can zoom? <--- is there any reasonable context for it? Reading the preceding 20 lines indicates there isn't? < 1283792819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283792845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, after turning on the monitor that is quite a strange first line to read < 1283793097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo oklofok < 1283793098 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok klofok lofok ofok fok ok k < 1283793123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vehemently oppose repression! Pah! All lies! < 1283793162 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1283793208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, undertakers never go over there. < 1283793373 0 :chrzaszcz!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ereswmara < 1283793433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eris rues everything Swedish when Mr Arvid reads again. < 1283793468 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo oohc^ < 1283793468 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oohc^ ohc^ hc^ c^ ^ < 1283793485 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo ^choo < 1283793485 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo choo hoo oo o < 1283793490 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1283793499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho cho < 1283793500 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chohoo < 1283793507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho foo < 1283793507 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fooooo < 1283793509 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted loop < 1283793514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho hello < 1283793514 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloellolloloo < 1283793518 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283793541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! Little Ivan says everything! < 1283793594 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283793610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:45:38 * nooga has got skin cancer < 1283793612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1283793648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ereswmara: no bots see their own messages at all, and most ignore the other bots as well < 1283793649 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm sober ecofreak < 1283793652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho oklopol < 1283793653 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopolklopollopolopolpololl < 1283793661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes rip it off quickly < 1283793668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo! A man everyone notes tersely! < 1283793673 0 :ereswmara!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh shut up, it's not deadly < 1283793684 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my AW citnum is in Factor documentation < 1283793689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ereswmara: Awwwwwww. (Kidding; try not to die.) < 1283793691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ? < 1283793709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho ITRALCEN < 1283793709 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITRALCENTRALCENRALCENALCENLCENCENENN < 1283793717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^unscramble ITRALCENTRALCENRALCENALCENLCENCENENN < 1283793718 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTNREANLECCENNETCRLANLECCELNARNAELC < 1283793719 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/doublec/factor/commit/639972379f3684792411909be3e8f06ac15c4ca9 < 1283793727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doublec/factor != Factor < 1283793737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== one fork of factor < 1283793745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i don't get it < 1283793751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, green empires own? < 1283793765 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I pointed out an issue with Factor's documentation regarding pattern matching < 1283793765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: did you suggest that just because it's your number thing? < 1283793782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I hope you pointed it out. otherwise it's disingenuous. < 1283793789 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jokingly said 346126, mentioned what it was, and they included it < 1283793811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although slava jokingly asked for cc and/or social security as a more real-life exampke < 1283793813 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*example < 1283793846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may not have been joking. < 1283793925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what lev < 1283793929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still playing? < 1283793964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: not right now, but i'm up to 66 < 1283793969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i can't logisticate properly < 1283793972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? < 1283793986 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass-licking idiotic shit eel < 1283794007 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64, i played a couple minutes just now < 1283794018 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll cheat to help you < 1283794019 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 was trivial once i did spaces with my right hand < 1283794021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give you a walkthrough for it < 1283794024 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my leftie sucks < 1283794028 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently :( < 1283794029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 is a puzzle < 1283794032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1283794034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a space raper < 1283794042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have you finished it < 1283794045 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i mean the one i was stuck in yesterday < 1283794050 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried 64 < 1283794057 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1283794070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" 64 was trivial once i did spaces with my right hand" <<< i see what may have confused you < 1283794089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 64 i - obviously - meant 60 < 1283794119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:21:34 [ dup continue-with ] callcc1 < 1283794121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] callcc1 < 1283794132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :) < 1283794140 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to recap, 60 was easy with hand switch, and three after that were triv, 64 i haven't tried because i remember it took a bit of thinking < 1283794150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i can tell you the order < 1283794151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that it's easy < 1283794154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just go fast < 1283794155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where from? < 1283794157 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point < 1283794159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1283794185 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ask you if i get stuck < 1283794191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go fast and try not to die < 1283794192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo's quotes < 1283794199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs < 1283794251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? Kleptomaniacs leave obelisks for other kings. < 1283794277 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to see if that makes sense < 1283794282 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Phantom_Hoover with an ettin < 1283794298 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches the ettin leave an obelisk < 1283794307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shpwan? < 1283794309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have thought kleptomaniacs would want to *take* obelisks *away* from kings < 1283794330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's an exception. < 1283794338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I bothered to mention it. < 1283794348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boo-yah! < 1283794369 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits alise with a reference recognition failure < 1283794570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION euuhs < 1283794581 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E54F1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283794688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want to have a functionalish language where 'take-argument' and 'provide-argument' are dual operations (sort of) < 1283794773 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I have to think about this < 1283795033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically so along with currying, there is a "yrrucing" operation, which takes a function and yields a new function which requires one more argument < 1283795087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currying and yrrucing should ideally have nice algebraic properties, but they probably don't < 1283795195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what will yrrucing do with the extra argument? < 1283795226 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it available to the function. i was originally thinking in terms of named arguments. now i'm not, i think this is simpler. < 1283795231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could argue that lambda yrrucs, then. < 1283795256 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in a way it does. i wonder if that's what i'm thinking of < 1283795268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1283795277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, inventor of the lambda term. < 1283795281 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1283795281 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   | < 1283795281 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /< < 1283795301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's less screwy when you do it. < 1283795317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :phntmh < 1283795322 0 :phntmh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1283795323 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1283795323 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/| < 1283795336 0 :phntmh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1283795344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you do it? < 1283795372 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Photon_Hamster < 1283795376 0 :Photon_Hamster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1283795376 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1283795376 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /< < 1283795382 0 :Photon_Hamster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1283795415 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pzth < 1283795418 0 :pzth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1283795424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map sort ["Phantom_Hoover", "Photon_Hamster"] < 1283795428 0 :pzth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1283795432 0 :pzth!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1283795450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map List.sort ["Phantom_Hoover", "Photon_Hamster"] < 1283795452 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["HP_aehmnooortv","HP_aehmnoorstt"] < 1283795474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a lot funnier than I expected it to be < 1283795540 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://superosity.keenspot.com/ < 1283795585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ["Phantom_Hoover", "Photon_Hamster"] >>= sort < 1283795591 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Good thing both my nick and Phantom_Hoover's are strings, or you wouldn't have been able to put them both in a Haskell list. < 1283795606 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283795614 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a non-string-type nick < 1283795615 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ["Phantom_Hoover", "Photon_Hamster"] >>= return . sort < 1283795624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck you too < 1283795624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you need the List. < 1283795682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry not following < 1283795702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i corrected it above < 1283795712 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1283795720 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ["Phantom_Hoover", "Photon_Hamster"] >>= List.sort < 1283795722 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HP_aehmnooortvHP_aehmnoorstt" < 1283795726 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooookay < 1283795746 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wonder why i thought i need a return < 1283795772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid concatenation? < 1283795808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but yeah i guess that's what it does < 1283796243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that octothorpe is actually a real name for the hash sign. < 1283796266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was I not informed of this? < 1283796269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's in my head for yrruc is not quite a lambda form, though you could use it as one. actually, it should be ylppa, because it's a dual of application, not currying. < 1283796281 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a Factor bot in here? < 1283796285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why do Americans call hash "pound"? < 1283796292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pound is £! < 1283796340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You look like 10# of Falcon in a 5# bag, son" < 1283796380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, Imperial measurements and confusion with currency. < 1283796387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And I blame *you* for nail sizes being called "pennies" and abbreviated "d". < 1283796430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, nail sizes? As in the little pointy things? < 1283796451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The little metal spikes you hammer into wood. Yes. < 1283796466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles that you need separate sizes for them < 1283796485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you just give length and diameter? < 1283796538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blacksmiths liked pennies better i guess. < 1283796569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC pennies are abbreviated "d" because of LATIN < 1283796639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is why the pound sign looks like an "L". < 1283796678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :denarii iirc < 1283796682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283796708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and libra < 1283796714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1283796729 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is this meant to persuade me to cease blaming you for it? Not going to happen. < 1283796734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sestercii is presumably where the solidus comes from. < 1283796755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/c/t/ < 1283796768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1283796777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sestertii < 1283796785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And c and t? < 1283796805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----### < 1283796838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your palm frond does not assist my confusion! < 1283796891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely comparest thou thine own statement to my correction, shall all become clear < 1283796934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't realise that wasn't a solidus < 1283796959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_(coin) < 1283796993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to the strokey thing. < 1283797012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that -----### meant to be a palm frond? < 1283797085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a fly swatter < 1283797137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The names solidus and shilling mark have the same background." < 1283797143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What sort of fly swatter do you have? < 1283797149 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I borrowed it to swat Phantom_Hoover, it was a palm frond. < 1283797158 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is clearly a magical object of some kind. < 1283797169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: definitely not what you borrowed, it had too many #'s < 1283797193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: All kinds of junk lying around here -- I must have picked up the wrong thing. < 1283797216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's had pieces added before < 1283797235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone ate or stole the previous one, iirc < 1283797238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs something and hits oerjan with it ~~~~~@@@ < 1283797244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeewww < 1283797256 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk doesn't seem to have higher-order functions :( < 1283797293 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg there's an #awk < 1283797315 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shouldn't report these findings < 1283797317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so can you give further details on yrruc? < 1283797321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gawks awkwardly at #awk < 1283797322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1283797349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why shouldn't you report? < 1283797374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people here just follow me into them! < 1283797386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't actually join < 1283797506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but PH did. it's weird though, many times when I join another channel, there is already someone from #esoteric there. < 1283797509 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable159.218-202-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283797510 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that huh? < 1283797549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure there is some completely natural explanation that has nothing to do with us stalking you at all < 1283797705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's Vorpal. i hear he is on every channel, ever. or something. < 1283797733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283797742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283797766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He has his eyes everywhere! You can't hide from him! < 1283797821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily, omniscientally regarding perfectly all locations. < 1283797828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although you can confuse him with parts of conversation he has missed < 1283797832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can confirm that Vorpal is not on ##gameoflife < 1283797840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he cannot keep _up_ everywhere, after all < 1283797968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: my sources may have been slightly unreliable < 1283798046 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylppa(f,a) evaluates to f' which is like f except all occurrences of 'a' within it are replaceable. apply(f,a) replaces whatever is topmost replaceable in f with a. < 1283798073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i mean, apply(f,a) evaluates to f' which is like f with whatever was topmost replaceable in f replaced by a. < 1283798101 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think apply actually evaluates; i think you need eval(f), and f must in that case have no replaceables < 1283798102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless it's Vorpal. i hear he is on every channel, ever. or something. <-- no, I'm on about 70 channels on freenode. In total a bit over 350 (yes I cut down heavily, used to be almost 500) < 1283798112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode has way more channels, check /lusers < 1283798126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 37855 :channels formed < 1283798139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, make that "about 80" for freenode < 1283798142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84 < 1283798168 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means: apply(ylppa(f,a),a) == f < 1283798170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i recall you had to apply to get your channel limit lifted... < 1283798183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes but they have increased it for everyone nowdays < 1283798190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the extremely silly 20 < 1283798194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to iirc 100 < 1283798200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no problems any more < 1283798206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, being on more than 20 channels is trivial < 1283798219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that sounds rather close to lambda to me. i guess it could still do weird things with nesting < 1283798247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main difference is that there are no "names" as such, just terms, i guess < 1283798295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a could be any term? < 1283798316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the idea < 1283798331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1283798354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that is my idea. if you don't like it, i have others" < 1283798369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it's funnier with "principles" < 1283798397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that sounds like a zzo38 quote :D < 1283798457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondciples < 1283798551 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kingiples < 1283798736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiples. < 1283798845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to make heads or tails of HAKMEM ITEM 172 < 1283798848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this means: apply(ylppa(f,a),a) == f < 1283798853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, but what does ylppa actually do? < 1283798856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how are you /still/ drunk? < 1283798882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just hungover. decided not to go on a long-weekend-long bender. < 1283798902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylppa the geek < 1283798903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylppa is... ah hell, just say it's lambda < 1283798903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably we have some sort of quote-expression thing < 1283798905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is < 1283798909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylppa([a+2],a) < 1283798912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== \a -> a+2 < 1283798913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283798917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to < 1283798920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval([a+2]) < 1283798926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would only work if you have a local named a < 1283798942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply(ylppa([a+2],a),42) == [42+2] < 1283798946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval([42+2]) == 44 < 1283798949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's not lambda < 1283798962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns a sort-of-dynamically-scoped quotation into a lexically-scoped lambda < 1283798969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really an unscoped one, executing in the current scope) < 1283798972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's way cool. < 1283798983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you might understand it better than i do < 1283798998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i believe so. < 1283799001 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yppla is lambda without names < 1283799006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1283799006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was all i intended < 1283799008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283799010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1283799021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: here's how i was viewing it < 1283799025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a+2] is just some quoted code, right? < 1283799030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283799037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 4; eval([a = 42]) < 1283799042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now a is 42 < 1283799047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but consider < 1283799063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 4; f = ylppa([a = 42], a); eval(apply(f, a)) < 1283799070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming (x=y) is an expression returning y < 1283799078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eval just evaluates to 42 and disregards the result < 1283799085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so ylppa lifts a name into the []s closure < 1283799101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it'd actually be ylppa([a = 42], 'a) where 'x is a symbol but you get the idea < 1283799122 0 :Hiant!~chatzilla@pool-71-255-203-50.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283799184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so what you have invented is really cool actually < 1283799188 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you need symbols don't you < 1283799202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's like lambda, except it operates on pre-existing functions < 1283799206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1283799207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't functions < 1283799209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just quoted code < 1283799210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ala Joy < 1283799218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so they inherit your locals, as if an evalled string) < 1283799235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions, quoted code, meh < 1283799241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename proposed: instead of apply(f,x) we just write f*(x) < 1283799254 0 :Hiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283799255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of ylppa(f,'a) we write ^('a,f) < 1283799258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was originally going to use * for yppla and / for apply < 1283799269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good idea < 1283799275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it?? < 1283799280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good enough < 1283799282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply(f,x) -> f/x < 1283799287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ylppa(f,'a) -> 'a/f < 1283799293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(x) -> ^x < 1283799300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it lifts a quotation outside the [], evaluating it!) < 1283799303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1283799310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[x] === x < 1283799320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283799324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ylppa(f,'a) -> 'a*f < 1283799326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1283799363 0 :Hiant!~Person@pool-71-255-203-50.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283799365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(v*[q])/v === evaluating q, except the local v is restored at the end < 1283799402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah i think this is all pretty close to what i was thinking on some level < 1283799428 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as (x*y)/x = y, i'm happy < 1283799441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'x*y, presumably < 1283799450 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283799456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, sort of < 1283799463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('x*[x])/42 = [42] < 1283799472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('x*[x])/x = [] < 1283799477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('x*[x])/'x = ['x] < 1283799480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so it isn't quite that < 1283799490 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er right < 1283799491 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1283799505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283799507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1283799508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1283799515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets more coffee < 1283799521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283799534 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283799550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1283799565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283799589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine I insert my normal warning here about being very angry in RL < 1283799610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc that isn't the fault of anyone here, but it can still make me snappy on occasion < 1283799676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have no idea what that normal warning is; I don't recall you ever being angry. < 1283799682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But noted. < 1283799695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's along the lines of "I'm very angry/annoyed, but not with you" < 1283799707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, being here generally helps to calm me down < 1283799711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it doesn't actually help with anything < 1283799749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey's come up with something that I understand better than him and think is awesome < 1283799782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a way to turn quotations that inherit their scope when you run them, that is, x=3; q=[x=(x+1)]; ^q ====> x is 4 < 1283799786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into proper lexically-scoped lambdas < 1283799788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lacks an algebraic property that i want, which is possibly why i don't see it as alise does < 1283799801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to fix that < 1283799804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh! i know! < 1283799808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: apply takes a quotation, not a value < 1283799810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inserts it in < 1283799823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ('x*[x])/[x] == [x] < 1283799825 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algebraic property is perhaps not as useful as the... what you see in it < 1283799835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ('x*[x+9])/[x+4] == [(x+4)+9] < 1283799853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ('x*q)/[x] == q < 1283799864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: might work < 1283799935 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283800164 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not 'x == [x]? then [x]*[x+9]/[y]=[y+9] ... [9]*[x+9]/[y]=[x+y] ... [x+9]*[x+9]/[3]=[3]... and I believe x*y/x=y (using * with higher prec than / here) < 1283800186 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x*x/y=y as well < 1283800201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... not so happily algebraic < 1283800234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 'x as [x] is fine < 1283800239 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, x is a self-annihilator of some kind. x*x=1. where 1 is the identity < 1283800245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1283800245 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this... thing < 1283800250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just using x as a variable < 1283800260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x*x=1, aka x = 1 < 1283800270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall x, x*x = 1 < 1283800289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identity is the wrong word < 1283800360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh * not as in multiplication < 1283800361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1283800366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh < 1283800374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this is not making sense any more < 1283800378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `ylppa` x == 1 < 1283800380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did your property < 1283800426 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm using your version, just noting that [x] and 'x are the same < 1283800475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x]*[x] = [x]*[x], there's no real other name for it < 1283800480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it does something new to the language inexpressable otherwise < 1283800493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([x]*[x])/[x] == [x], though < 1283800494 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, not on same page < 1283800502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ofc if we allow [x] to be ylppaed then we can do < 1283800508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([42]*[42])/[3] == [3] < 1283800510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bizarre < 1283800540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[c]*[a+b+c] --> i'm going to need a new syntax for this < 1283800561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([2]*[42])/[3] == [43] < 1283800563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[c]*[a+b+c] --> [a+b+()] < 1283800570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha < 1283800579 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a+b+()] / [c] --> [a+b+c] < 1283800585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes < 1283800588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make it $0, $1, etc < 1283800591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can ylppa something again < 1283800594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1283800596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, let's say :c, not [c] < 1283800604 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like [c] < 1283800605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because making a hole out of arbitrary expressions is freaky < 1283800607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think unneeded < 1283800616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: [1+4]*[1+4+3] < 1283800626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary expressions was the point < 1283800628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(should [1+4]*[1+3+4] do anything? no? why not?) < 1283800636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har du ylppat din varg idag? < 1283800640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're undistinguishable quotations in every other sense) < 1283800688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally < 1283800689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, for my algebra's sake, in x*y and y/z, x y and z need to be the same "type" < 1283800696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get all of Valve's games for £52.99 < 1283800701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, arbitrary (quoted) expressions, all < 1283800708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(separately it'd cost £124.82) < 1283800721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok, for my algebra's sake, in x*y and y/z, x y and z need to be the same "type" < 1283800722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same type? < 1283800725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a type? < 1283800752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you could stick into y, you can also stick into x, without going, "whoa that's freaky and unneeded" < 1283800782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283800787 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this for algebra, note. for PL feature alone, if you think it's cool, i won't push it < 1283800856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283800860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm just not getting this at all now :-D < 1283800875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw Pixley-in-C should be easy. no continuations after all < 1283800875 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well... rome was not burned down in a day < 1283800883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't mind very limited recursion < 1283800891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i actually started it this morning, but gave up quickly < 1283800894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: xD < 1283800908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: want me to have a try at giving up? < 1283800910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple, yes, but boring, plus i'm easily distracted, < 1283800916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i assume you don't mind being recursion-limited to the size of the C stack < 1283800932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you mean, you want to implement Pixley-in-C? be my guest < 1283800937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I take it bignums are considered required? < 1283800944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nums in pixley < 1283800948 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only symbols < 1283800949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha < 1283800954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like arrowlisp but not as pure < 1283800954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes that part easy < 1283800966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrowlisp: http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-arrowlisp-1175.html < 1283800970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i knew arrowlisp, i'd say, yes! but i don't < 1283800972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely symbolic lisp -- by Nils M. Holm, how coincidental. < 1283801030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to figure out what i want to do, then i get distracted and i don't < 1283801035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm, I have to do tail-call optimisation < 1283801041 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bored through too many possibilities! < 1283801043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger, tree-walking will be a bit difficult < 1283801050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no compiler, only a tree-walking interpreter. BTW, I do not think that there are many tree-walking interpreters out there that do tail call optimization. ArrowLISP does." < 1283801052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CONVENIENT < 1283801058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although of course he's deleted the page. < 1283801063 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thread the tree < 1283801070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just" < 1283801078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally unhelpful sir < 1283801085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how that works out in this < 1283801093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what do you mean by threading it? < 1283801106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler may actually be easier than an interpreter < 1283801108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la ichbins < 1283801121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in each node, attach a pointer to the "next" node in the evaluation sequence < 1283801131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*next < 1283801162 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically trampolining through the tree instead of walking it, after that < 1283801193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, at some points, you need to make decisions and/or store/restore savepoints < 1283801204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just like a linear machine would < 1283801232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i'm starting to think a compiler here would be the easiest thing < 1283801235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate, i know you can do continuation-like/TCO-like stuff with a threaded tree, because i've done it before < 1283801245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could even write it in Pixley (AIEEEEEEEE) < 1283801249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the target language does what you want, is fine < 1283801256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-C < 1283801258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*->C < 1283801265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pixley with a wrapper to translate a bunch of symbols into a string < 1283801269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was why i did the tree threading when i did -- couldn't find a target language that i liked) < 1283801287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(abc def (lbrace)) -> "abcdef {" < 1283801302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. that might be more than a little difficult < 1283801322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, sounds fun anyway < 1283801332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking to just intern all symbols < 1283801335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although since it can't self-host without a wrapper, what's the point < 1283801341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it needs symbol->string < 1283801356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt symbols: ichbins just makes them into C variables with a heap location as the value, iirc < 1283801361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1283801374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can self-host without a wrapper, it's just ugly < 1283801416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an interpreter literally embedded within an interpreter counts as self-hosting < 1283801445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, it can't, because it wouldn't be able to output the string < 1283801455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283801461 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, misunderstood you < 1283801464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: because you have no string->symbol < 1283801468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1283801492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a postprocessor :) < 1283801500 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1283801507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, precisely, but then what is the point? < 1283801530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my suggestion: < 1283801535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow "..." but let it denote a symbol, not a string < 1283801540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# (i (n (c (l (u (d (e (space (quote (s (t (d (i (o (quote (.... < 1283801550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's what i said < 1283801552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1283801555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean . < 1283801556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1283801558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle of those < 1283801575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mine was funnier! < 1283801588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh < 1283801590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: since Pixley has no way of distinguishing symbols from any hypothetical string, < 1283801594 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does pixley have (a . b)? i forget < 1283801597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo" denoting a symbol would be fine < 1283801602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: presumably it has cons < 1283801612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has cons < 1283801617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing then < 1283801620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can (cons (quote a) (quote b)) iirc < 1283801634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that would be marvellous < 1283801674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would? < 1283801679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo" being a symbol? < 1283801692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, ArrowLisp and Scheme 9... oh yeah, you said. < 1283801707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cpressey> oh, that would be marvellous < 1283801707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> what would? < 1283801707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> "foo" being a symbol? < 1283801758 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marvellous would be self-hosting a Pixley compiler in Pixley and having it output a huge sexp of (cons (quote ...)) which a postprocessor turns into a flat text file to feed to a compiler < 1283801772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marvellous in the gloriously gory sense < 1283801789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: unfortunately, i think Pixley is not expressive enough to write a compiler in < 1283801792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily < 1283801798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easily, no, i agree < 1283801823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read ichbins? wonderful. < 1283801826 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a simple compiler for some esolang < 1283801828 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i haven't < 1283801851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wry.me/~darius/hacks/icbins/icbins.tar.gz < 1283801853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rerm < 1283801854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283801855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1283801857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wry.me/~darius/hacks/ichbins.tar.gz < 1283801877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme-ish-subset (forget whether it's actually a proper subset of Scheme or not) to C compiler, very short. < 1283801886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling it was not useful < 1283801897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my links < 1283801922 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283801932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, thx < 1283801936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1283801937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the latter < 1283801941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is bigger, and includes a compiler < 1283801944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1283801945 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darius Bacon, have I heard hat name before...? < 1283801946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and includes an interpreter < 1283801948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nearly as interesting < 1283801950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: probably < 1283801955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/ < 1283801971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh he called a wiki ikiwiki < 1283801975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if it came before the more famous one < 1283801987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*called some wiki software < 1283801995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, probably = maybe < 1283802098 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I have, and he's clearly done a lot, although i can't pinpoint what it woul dhave been in association with. < 1283802198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ichbins' language is expressive enoug hthat expressing its more complicated constructs is no problem < 1283802204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixley, being just below it, seems much harder < 1283802212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the fundamental attributes that make compiling it hard, not the extra features < 1283802239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OTOH, a Pixley->C compiler in some other language is utterly uninteresting < 1283802258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1283802258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1283802258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only ask another 100 times. < 1283802258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1283802258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only ask another 99 times. < 1283802259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1283802261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only ask another 98 times. < 1283802263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1283802265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only ask another 97 times. < 1283802267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1283802269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the result of ^D-spamming Scheme 48 < 1283802340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there were 2 minutes left before the 48 hours were up, so they decided to have some fun < 1283802463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that uninterestingness, plus picoLisp, plus the desire to write simple beautiful C programs, led me to think of pixley interpreter in C, only < 1283802482 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even consider self-hosting a Pixley compiler < 1283802510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah < 1283802520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, doing it picolisp-style would be fun < 1283802549 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be picoLisp-style. well not *have* to, but, yeah. < 1283802564 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more than my brain can handle right no < 1283802566 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1283802593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: problem is picolisp style usually involves a different language :) < 1283802616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i follow you. < 1283802624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, exiting after 100 consecutive EOFs makes more sense than asking every time < 1283802636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if stdin actually /is/ at EOF or closed, you probably want to exit rather than hang indefinitely < 1283802646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's the interactive REPL! < 1283802659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could be piping something into a REPL < 1283802667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: like the different nil structure < 1283802672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and get the 500 > > > > >s? < 1283802673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1283802673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, say, communicating with it via netcat or something, and have broken the connection < 1283802681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283802684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it prompts you < 1283802688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, if you break the connection I guess < 1283802708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if your terminal ran out of disk space? < 1283802722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would be hilarious if that actually happened for some terminal) < 1283802758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1283802789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, why the fuck isn't netcat in the arch repositories? < 1283802799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes one angry < 1283802809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you looking for it under the name 'nc'? < 1283802813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283802825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has GNU netcat, patched netcat, OpenBSD netcat, IPv6 netcat < 1283802830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No original Hobbit netcat < 1283802831 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gah < 1283802884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nc110.tgz is a tarbomb < 1283802894 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or maybe your teletype ran out of paper! < 1283802981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I keep muddling tarbombs with zipbombs < 1283803007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy that two words with such similar etymology have such different meanings < 1283803098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is freely given away to the Internet community in the hope that < 1283803098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be useful, with no restrictions except giving credit where it is due. < 1283803098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No GPLs, Berkeley copyrights or any of that nonsense. The author assumes NO < 1283803098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :responsibility for how anyone uses it. < 1283803103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how valid that is < 1283803108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's in Netcat's readme) < 1283803114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*netcat's < 1283803191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very-free-content licences may have no effect at all in many countries < 1283803266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, it always amuses me when BSD advocates get angry with someone sublicensing a derivative of their code as GPL < 1283803266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In the US, and probably in other common-law countries, it is perfectly valid. < 1283803299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when the wording is unclear, intent takes precedence, and the intent is 100% obvious. < 1283803301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the major argument against is based on contract law, rather than copyright law < 1283803313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would you list the license as? < 1283803316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'netcat license'? < 1283803329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to "GPL", "MPL" etc.) < 1283803330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contracts aren't enforceable at all unless they have benefits for both sides < 1283803333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "attribution" < 1283803338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283803345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not a precise identifier, though < 1283803349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can put "unknown") < 1283803349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Except that copyright licenses are not contracts. < 1283803354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283803357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : contracts aren't enforceable at all unless they have benefits for both sides ;; really? < 1283803360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how stupid < 1283803362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need the precise licence, copy the whole thing < 1283803369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in the UK and US, at least < 1283803374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. Though "benefit" is somewhat vague. < 1283803378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license under which the software is distributed. A licenses package has been created in [core] that stores common licenses in /usr/share/licenses/common, i.e. /usr/share/licenses/common/GPL. If a package is licensed under one of these licenses, the value should be set to the directory name, e.g. license=('GPL'). If the appropriate license is not included in the official licenses package, several things must be done: < 1283803379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license file(s) should be included in: /usr/share/licenses/pkgname/, e.g. /usr/share/licenses/foobar/LICENSE. < 1283803379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the source tarball does NOT contain the license details and the license is only displayed elsewhere, e.g. a website, then you need to copy the license to a file and include it. < 1283803380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add custom to the license array. Optionally, you can replace custom with custom:name of license. Once a license is used in two or more packages in an official repository (including [community]), it becomes a part of the licenses package. < 1283803383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurgh < 1283803429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, trading $1 for your soul would be a perfectly valid contract if you could argue that a reasonable person aware of the full consequences would agree to it. < 1283803432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it seems from that that it's a license that's only used by one project, so you should just add it to /usr/share/licenses < 1283803443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've just given up on making a package for now < 1283803447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETOOMUCHWORK < 1283803451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENOPERSONALGAIN < 1283803453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(contracts in common-law are invalid if the terms are completely crazy) < 1283803453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: assuming that the law considers souls vaulable < 1283803455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*valuable < 1283803457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not like nc110 will ever be UPDATED) < 1283803481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unconsionable" contracts, ones that nobody sane would agree to, are rejected < 1283803491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Having any value at all? Well, that would depend on the opinion of the court. < 1283803493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a different rule from the one stating that contracts must have consideration for both sides < 1283803499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, as in any value at all < 1283803502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there an opposite to -static? < 1283803504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-dynamic doesn't work < 1283803509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1283803510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-no-static? < 1283803526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1283803531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wiat < 1283803532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< ais523> meanwhile, it always amuses me when BSD advocates get angry with someone sublicensing a derivative of their code as GPL < 1283803532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1283803534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just do STATIC= < 1283803535 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that amuses me too < 1283803541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a UK precedent somewhere that a crisp packet counts as sufficient value, especially as the contract in question was made in an attempt to encourage people to buy crisps < 1283803548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't mind people who do that, btw < 1283803552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I won't incorporate their changes or anything < 1283803561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense too < 1283803580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably won't appreciate them recommending their version to people e.g. on any mailing lists < 1283803590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that applies to any BSD-licensed derivatives I dislike, too < 1283803600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, recommending it on a regular basis) < 1283803603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The standard for "counting as consideration" in contracts here is the US. Not legal precedent or anything, just common practice if you really don't want much of anything in return for it. < 1283803607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without significant productive contributions) < 1283803618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you mean USD, don't you? < 1283803624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Erm. < 1283803631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here in the US is $1" < 1283803634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1283803637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 1c? < 1283803637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1283803642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Probably count. < 1283803648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: $1 is just what's normally done. < 1283803660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a story where Feynman was offered one of those contracts and actually tried to claim the dollar < 1283803665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes he did. < 1283803667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently people rarely bothered < 1283803668 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a somewhat weird license question < 1283803674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was perfectly in the right to do so. < 1283803677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1283803678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a brain tumour < 1283803684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do the same. < 1283803688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that can buy a soda!) < 1283803692 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283803696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if that's true, that's bad and seek medical attention immediately < 1283803698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're lying < 1283803713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was trying to be vaguely witty wrt what cpressey said. < 1283803719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be hard for me to know that I have a brain tumour without an expert telling me so. < 1283803721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1283803723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to dual-license something as both public domain, and MITL'ed? < 1283803728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No. < 1283803730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MITL? < 1283803735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public domain is the lack of copyright. < 1283803739 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT license, or BSD license < 1283803747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you can use something like the Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication < 1283803755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it's arguable whether or not you can *actually do that* in the US. < 1283803763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an attempt to create a version of making things public domain that actually works < 1283803764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's genuinely impossible in some other countries. < 1283803768 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not even if I make two otherwise-identical versions, copyright one, place the other in PD? < 1283803769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like jQuery's license. Disjunction of MIT and GPL. Clearly a license choice made by somebody that has no friggin' clue. < 1283803779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Not dual license then. < 1283803782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh yes, much more amusement < 1283803784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just coincidentally identical works. < 1283803786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it makes sense if you think that the MIT license might not be binding for some reason < 1283803799 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "In other words... MIT?" < 1283803808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is statically linking against glibc ever a good idea? < 1283803817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. Not glibc. Other libcs, sure. < 1283803820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: xD < 1283803822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt jQuery < 1283803822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In other words... If you have no friggin' clue. < 1283803827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah, it's just that nc tries to do it < 1283803840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe not technically a dual license, I agree. But the effect of one < 1283803843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Glibc cannot be statically linked, basically. < 1283803849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically linking a libc is very common on certain platforms < 1283803850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try, but you get a binary that dlopens stuff. < 1283803851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably back when nc was written, it was a less-bad idea :P < 1283803867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, here's my guide to compiling Hobbit netcat on Linux: in netcat.c, after the inclusion of fcntl.h, add the line [[#include ]]. Then [[make linux STATIC=]]. < 1283803867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I agree that glibc is probably not very good at that < 1283803868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1283803895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's the point of this? < 1283803895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # BLOCK 9 freq:1949 < 1283803896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # PRED: 8 [50.0%] (true,exec) < 1283803896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perror (&" "[0]); < 1283803896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : goto ; < 1283803896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # SUCC: 11 [100.0%] (fallthru,exec) < 1283803898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck is this. < 1283803899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU netcat is whoot. < 1283803902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, it isn't < 1283803904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source of my question was, I was wondering if there was a way to get around the fact that public domain isn't recognized in some countries. (in those countries, you can use the copyrighted version which grants you pretty-free copying rights instead.) < 1283803909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if I liked it, < 1283803915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use it, because I don't approve of stealing names like that < 1283803926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a blatant lifting of the name of another program < 1283803929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Just like GNU cp stole UNIX cp's name? :P < 1283803931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like calling ReactOS "Windows" < 1283803932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perror(&" "[0]) means perror(" ") < 1283803933 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like zzo38 even asking, tho < 1283803950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "netcat" with the basic CLI interface and options is not nearly as obvious as "cp x y" copying x to y. < 1283803954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat < 1283803963 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But it's intended to be. < 1283803965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat is a relatively well-known brand in unixy circles < 1283803967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, "nc" is < 1283803972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read the readme < 1283803974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "netcat" < 1283803975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, true. < 1283803978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point. < 1283803998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many of the 676 two-lowercase-letter names have a reasonably standard meaning as commands on UNIX-like systems? < 1283803999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know what a file like netcat.c.193r.pro_and_epilogue is? < 1283804002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1283804002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, socat is better. < 1283804004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who cares. < 1283804007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think when I did -dynamic < 1283804011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them made it generate that crap < 1283804012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1283804044 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone in here doing an entry for http://www.codequarterly.com/code-challenges/markup/ ? < 1283804070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use Hobbit netcat 1.10 until the second coming of Jesus^W^W^W^WIPv6 is implemented; then I'll use an IPv6 patch on it. < 1283804078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: not afaik < 1283804095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that looks boring < 1283804112 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, parsing using esolangs is probably hard < 1283804139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IPv6 is implemented basically everywhere nowadays < 1283804151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Windows (from Vista onwards) tries to use IPv6 where it can, and IPv4 only where it has to < 1283804153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but nobody actually /uses/ it < 1283804158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major issue is that ISPs don't support it < 1283804159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most ISPs don't support it < 1283804163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it irrelevant < 1283804173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect we'll NAT ourselves to death before IPv6 ever happens < 1283804178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could be very, very bad < 1283804190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long before we run out of NAT space? < 1283804204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAT effectively gives us two more octets on our addresses < 1283804205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't it effectively make one IP contain the entire IPv4 space? < 1283804223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced that that's enough for the reasonable future < 1283804230 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-140.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1283804240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I bet we can make Super NAT. < 1283804252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, the next step onwards will probably be some sort of "static NAT" < 1283804261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IMO the "best thing" would be for a technological country like Japan to institute some legally-required IPv6 migration plan. < 1283804270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it'd trickle to the rest of the world. < 1283804289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the entirety of Qatar is behind a NAT < 1283804290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the ISPs will do it on their own. < 1283804295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the one NAT for the whole country < 1283804310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but they barely matter on the internet :P < 1283804318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, if they get more than 65535 people trying to load web pages at once, they have to delay some of the requests < 1283804327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that could be the reason why... < 1283804347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only African country I see represented on the internet is South Africa < 1283804361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Hiato is the only South African I've actually talked to on the internet, as far as I'm aware < 1283804368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is Hiato anyway? he's fun < 1283804388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it depends on which parts of the internet you go for < 1283804403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true < 1283804407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283804408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several third-world African countries, the Internet works via mobile phones, and is used for trade and farming information < 1283804414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, farming information < 1283804432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that mobile phones are ludicrously popular in Moscow < 1283804436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty important if the vast majority of your population are farmers < 1283804442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, that's the impression I got from the single Moscow...ian I knew < 1283804451 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muscovite < 1283804455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that PCs aren't used nearly as much for the internet) < 1283804458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but I'd already typed Moscwo! < 1283804460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Moscow < 1283804461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet is especially important if the vast majority of your population are GOLD farmers. < 1283804463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*Moskau) < 1283804481 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muscovite sounds ickier < 1283804483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mosukau si < 1283804512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moskau, fremd und geheimnisvoll. Türme aus rotem gold. Kalt wie das eis. < 1283804560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tòitukò? < 1283804584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tòitukò?"? < 1283804588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German. < 1283804602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAKRw6mToA < 1283804614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps more well-known for the mondegreen-subtitled English version.) < 1283804616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From German "Deutsch" and Japanese "語" (language) < 1283804742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(romanised by pikhq as "kò") < 1283804769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romanised by normal people as? < 1283804773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"go" < 1283804778 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, oh why, did the designers of irssi make the scroll wheel recall previous lines of text types, instead of scrolling the scrollback?? < 1283804783 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typed < 1283804786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Hepburn, Kunreishiki, and Nihonshiki. < 1283804790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's your terminal < 1283804794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "scrollwheel" control character < 1283804797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in Konversation, it depends on where the mouse is < 1283804799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it is sending up and down < 1283804804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than pgup and pgdown < 1283804807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be able to configure this. < 1283804811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, many terminals translate the scrollwheel into direction keys < 1283804812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in a normal terminal, it scrolls < 1283804823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, but that's using the real terminal's text scrollback < 1283804826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can't work when using curses < 1283804829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in a terminal of mine hat isn't runing irssi < 1283804832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The ` diacritic is a voicing mark for the mora, BTW. < 1283804832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is it pronounced like in English-phonetics? < 1283804835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes. < 1283804836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "go". < 1283804836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: irssi uses curses. < 1283804841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so shall I blame curses? < 1283804844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that terminal is on the secondary screen rather than the primary, though < 1283804845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no. < 1283804846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's unavoidable < 1283804853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hepburn romanisation follows English phonetics. Always. < 1283804857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no in-terminal scrollback < 1283804861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: quite convenient. :P < 1283804864 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It could send PgUp and PgDown instead of Up and Down < 1283804867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's by design. < 1283804876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: sure. that'd break other things < 1283804877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what irrsi /could/ do would be to detect up-up-up faster than anyone can type, and convert it to pgup < 1283804885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that means it *doesn't* follow Japanese perception of the phonemes at all. < 1283804892 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just ate an orange < 1283804892 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is there any way I can change it? < 1283804899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: maybe. what terminal? < 1283804907 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tell us all about your fruit-consumption! < 1283804907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad for discussing Japanese words in English. Sucks for actually learning Japanese. < 1283804914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, it's used for actually learning Japanese. < 1283804914 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME Terminal 2.24.1.1, apparently < 1283804942 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283804951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihonshiki and kunreishiki are both closer to Japanese perception of things. < 1283804960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need to run a better terminal :) < 1283804987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: gnome-terminal is fine. < 1283805006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the main difference between the two being that nihonshiki retains a couple of distinctions that are now only made in *written* Japanese, not spoken (for Standard Japanese; some dialects retain this distinction)) < 1283805009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know of any terminal which can actually configure it < 1283805016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I got to two dots on 66. < 1283805018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how do you do 66 :| < 1283805055 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one cares either about my orangeness or noting how Gregor would note how no one cares? < 1283805086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, they all do things like marking geminate consonants by doubling the vowel, which can cause some ambiguity. < 1283805103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fail horridly at unusual uses of kana. < 1283805160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, trying to find how to make gnuplot plot a simple data series. As opposed to a function. Not having much luck. Anyone happens to know? The docs are huge. < 1283805204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtfm < 1283805212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you actually do the xterm-alike mouse support, the scroll wheel will send button 4/5 events, but I doubt irssi does mouse support. < 1283805213 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: all you do is make me hungry < 1283805226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as I said, docs are huge and I hoped someone here knew. Thanks < 1283805229 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, wish you could transfer some of that hunger to me < 1283805237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and sideways mouse wheel is buttons 6 and 7 < 1283805245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm in a bit of a hurry < 1283805246 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to eat more < 1283805262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you can eat while not hungry. < 1283805272 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: why do you need to eat more? < 1283805273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'plot "datafile"' is the simplest thing you can do, but usually you need some options how you want it to be plotted. < 1283805278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can't even romanise Okinawan with it. Bleeeeh) < 1283805285 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, I'm on the not particularly healthy side of thin < 1283805287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, need to find docs on data file format < 1283805295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283805316 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: better to waste away than to grow morbidly obese < 1283805318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have scanf-style format strings, but by default tab-separated columns of numbers work fine. < 1283805327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: said like a true anorexic < 1283805351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's your data file "originally" like? < 1283805366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a number of size\n