00:04:52 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:05:34 -!- Kordalien has joined. 00:05:59 olsner: koka means cocaine in pl 00:06:00 ;] 00:08:29 obviously we have other words for it since koka is already taken :) 00:08:57 eh, it's kokaina exactly 00:10:29 it's a bit weird 00:11:30 because we have some words that sound alike... um: smak - taste, some ppl say penga - money and tryknąć - to push 00:12:32 instead of pieniÄ…dze - money and nacisnąć - to push 00:14:09 koka coca, ok? 00:14:14 mhm 00:14:46 but how would you explain smak, penga and tryk 00:15:37 well penga and variants is common in several languages 00:15:47 german Pfennig, english penny 00:16:18 but we've got zÅ‚oty 00:16:19 ;] 00:16:41 and zÅ‚oty means - golden 00:17:03 and we've got kron[ea], but peng[ea]r is the word for money 00:17:46 czech money is also kronor (with weirder spelling, kurona or something like that) 00:17:56 hungarian pengö (actually should be a long accent on the o) 00:18:19 SGU on tonight 00:18:40 http://www.empi2.pl/obudowa/slownik/files/banknoty2.jpg kickass kings 00:18:41 I wonder if the beer brand slots (I think it's danish) is actually a form of golden, it would make sense for it to be a cognate for zloty 00:18:44 I'll probably watch on Hulu tomorrow 00:19:07 no, slot(t)? means castle 00:19:51 well more likely, anyhow 00:20:30 of course it does, but that doesn't mean that's the root they're referring to 00:20:38 well true 00:20:43 * oerjan googles 00:20:53 smak, tryck? 00:22:17 well they _could_ just be loanwords 00:22:23 but how 00:22:42 it's also smeck or something like that in german, i think 00:22:49 sweden was all over europe pwning around, a few hundred years ago 00:22:54 ah 00:22:55 right 00:22:57 yeah 00:23:24 at least it accounts for some weird loans of words and culture 00:23:29 drücken or something like that in german 00:23:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(history) 00:23:54 tbh Poland was pwned by everyone 00:26:35 hmm, 1.30, time to sleep again 00:27:41 Glasgeo: Young dies 00:28:04 I wonder what the heck we need sleep for, if there's maintenance to be done why can't it just be *done* instead of requiring hours of hibernation 00:28:12 I don't think it even aired yet! 00:28:20 Glasgeo: because spoilers never leak to the internet 00:28:21 unpossible 00:28:29 olsner: because it makes us hallucinate crazy shit 00:28:33 alise, do you want me to spoil FS for you? 00:28:39 alise: BUT WHYYYY!? 00:28:40 Glasgeo: nope 00:28:49 So why would you spoil SGU for me? 00:28:50 olsner: the body's only defence is to make us even 1/4 aware of it happening and also to forget as much as possible 00:28:56 Glasgeo: because i'm a bastard 00:29:02 Glasgeo: also, I'm lying 00:29:05 through my teeth, no less 00:29:18 although Young might just die, I have no idea, I don't know a single thing about it 00:29:20 lol 00:29:23 sick 00:30:13 * Glasgeo has homework he needs to do :/ 00:30:41 Also, what I said was more of a threat, really 00:30:47 seriously though, why does lack of sleep cause hallucinations of crazy shit? 00:30:50 >.> 00:30:52 i know you're not evil enough to 00:30:58 except accidentally 00:31:04 also, you'd never see the end of shit from me if you did :) 00:31:11 olsner: who knows! 00:31:19 alise: I demand answers 00:31:20 he accidentally humanity 00:31:30 olsner: there probably are answers, just we don't know them 00:31:37 "There is no universally agreed biological definition of dreaming." 00:31:38 or not 00:31:58 [[In 1952, Eugene Aserinsky identified and defined rapid eye movement (REM) sleep while working in the surgery of his PhD advisor. Aserinsky noticed that the sleepers' eyes fluttered beneath their closed eyelids, later using a polygraph machine to record their brainwaves during these periods. In one session, he awakened a subject who was wailing and crying out during REM and confirmed his suspicion that dreaming was occurring.[4] In 1953, Aserinsky and his a 00:31:59 dvisor published the ground-breaking study in Science.[5]]] 00:32:02 how the heck did it take us that long to realise? 00:32:39 afaik, no-one's figured out yawning yet either 00:32:51 olsner: THAT VIRUS IS TRANSMITTABLE OVER TEXT DAMMIT 00:32:53 * alise yawns 00:32:58 (IRL) 00:33:13 lol, your irc-brain barrier is failing 00:33:15 olsner: what we need is a language where the word for yawning is like 00:33:18 sdfoijsgdhklmjxxx 00:33:21 then we'd need have to worry 00:33:26 oh god now i'm yawning when looking at that 00:33:28 IT'S UNSTOPPABLE 00:33:46 in #haskell, they call it yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 00:33:54 olsner: i'm pretty sure the at least pop science theory is that dreams are your brain sifting through memories and deciding what to junk or not and the like 00:34:14 thus accessing them, and your brain translates this into a semi-coherent experience as it tries to make sense of the crazy 00:34:20 olsner: really? (also FUCK YOU) 00:34:25 i guess not :P 00:34:45 well, sure, brain defrag... just do it in the background dammit 00:34:51 mad theory: the dream world is the real one, we're just hallucinating this one ;D 00:35:16 INCEPTION? 00:35:18 (also ancient) 00:35:24 olsner: ur doing it wrong 00:35:27 I N C E P T I O N 00:35:36 fun fact: the star wars holiday special is canon 00:35:40 every single bit of it 00:35:43 alise: IRC strips kerning information 00:35:54 i keep yaaawning 00:36:21 alise: kerning now also makes you yawn 00:36:31 f u 00:36:32 keeeerning, yaaaawning 00:36:34 swe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61s62WKVio vs pl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUsXbPkiL4 xD 00:36:36 I HATE YOU SO MUCH 00:37:03 aaaaalise 00:37:12 gjeeeeesp 00:37:35 gäsp 00:37:41 blerh 00:37:47 my surname is Gasperowicz 00:37:48 ;d 00:37:57 *gasp* 00:37:59 i hate the word "gasp" 00:39:16 I HATE ALL ONOMATOPOEIAS 00:39:39 no no 00:39:43 nooga: this ä is pronounced e though 00:39:48 gasp is not the sound 00:39:57 gasp sholud be: sap 00:40:23 and the sound that dogs make is: hau hau 00:40:34 nooga: WhoTF makes a sound vaguely similar to "sap" while gasping >_O 00:40:43 If you make that sound, go to a hospital. Immediately. 00:40:43 pollocks 00:41:10 no, srsly, it's written like this 00:41:20 oh right, sleeping over yawning it was 00:42:06 it's more like "hah" 00:42:15 uhm 00:42:36 gah now i'm yawning for real 00:42:48 yawn -> zieww 00:43:29 * Glasgeo wonders if he can put alise to sleep over IRC 00:44:21 * oerjan waits for alise to respond with a remark indicating that's all Glasgeo does 00:44:45 * nooga 00:45:00 a remark indicating that's all Glasgeo does 00:47:12 disappointment over failure to follow use/mention distinction 00:47:45 i eat pasta 00:48:29 oerjan: remark indicating disappointment over 00:49:06 use of insect obliteration device on alise 00:49:18 death 00:49:55 The use–mention distinction is especially important in analytic philosophy.[3] The standard notation for mentioning a term in philosophy and logic is to put it in quotation marks. Notating using italics might require a potentially infinite number of typefaces.[4] 00:49:58 ludicrous :D 00:53:02 incest obliteration 00:55:22 insect obliteration! ahahahaha oh wait 00:59:31 my zangband compilation sometimes writes "incest" instead of "insect" 01:00:21 so you've said 01:00:25 zangband is for luzers 01:00:45 Your face is for losers 01:00:46 zandbang 01:00:49 Sorry. Reflex. 01:01:13 zangband = more fun than vanilla angband 01:01:17 angband > nethack 01:01:34 nooga: nethack >>> angband 01:01:38 no 01:01:42 angband is just a wimp game for losers, it even has a bot that can complete the game 01:01:43 nethack is unplayable 01:01:44 how fucking easy is that? 01:01:44 crawl >>> nethack 01:01:52 because of goddamn cat 01:01:57 nooga: you can kill it 01:01:59 or los eit 01:02:00 *lose it 01:02:02 or get a horse 01:02:05 or any number of things 01:02:19 nooga, minimize the window when you leave the computer unattended? 01:02:21 =P 01:02:44 ... 01:02:54 Glasgeo: shut the fuck up 01:03:02 nooga: Let me make this easy for you. Angband: yeah, there's a bot to play that. 01:03:13 Nethack: TAEB can get down a few levels... most of the time... 01:03:19 it can do sokoban... 01:03:29 How does it successfully reach sokoban? 01:03:56 by going down levels until it reaches sokoban 01:03:58 and then entering sokoban 01:04:11 alise: boring 01:04:23 nooga, Xom is never boring! Play Crawl! 01:04:30 nooga: not boring 01:04:36 Glasgeo: crawl is a shitty game 01:04:46 alise, just because you hate the view 01:04:53 nope, i played it too 01:05:06 especially ais' complaint about monsters with super-attacks that they rarely use 01:05:07 it's unbalanced 01:05:11 nethack is far better designed 01:05:45 nethack is simple and hard 01:06:07 nethack isn't simple in the boring rogue sense, it's a rich game 01:07:32 what's the footv bot again 01:07:35 that's the only good part of crawl 01:07:35 er 01:07:37 the fightclub 01:07:37 roaring bog 01:07:38 Sequell 01:07:39 Oh 01:07:43 varmin? 01:09:04 nice roguelike food idea: corpses start out raw, then mature into an edible state, then go rotten 01:09:12 perhaps only for a certain race or whatever 01:10:01 So corpses are more like fruit? 01:10:32 sure 01:10:46 explanation could be that it's a species that likes its corpses partially rotten 01:10:47 but not totally 01:10:59 a nice thing about nethack is how simple combat is 01:11:04 unfortunately that's also a point of boredom 01:11:10 but complex battle planning isn't so fun 01:11:14 something in-between 01:20:25 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat 01:20:32 everything is at absolute zero in a conservative CA :) 01:20:36 wait, no 01:20:38 there is still heat 01:20:49 Phantom_Hoover logreading: ^ work that into the "real-physics" CA :P 01:20:53 Glasgeo: You, remind me of that tomorrow. 01:20:54 :| 01:21:40 If I remember myself... 01:23:36 HEY ME PAY ATTENTION 01:23:37 HEY ME PAY ATTENTION 01:23:37 HEY ME PAY ATTENTION 01:23:37 HEY ME PAY ATTENTION 01:23:39 ELIJGLKJSGDFGJSDFKGSHGKSJLDFG 01:23:40 there 01:23:44 for logreading :P 01:23:51 ^^^ LOOK UP ^^^ 01:24:05 vvv LOOK DOWN vvv 01:25:17 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Overweight_spaceship 01:25:18 An overweight spaceship (or OWSS for short) is a would-be spaceship similar to the lightweight spaceship, middleweight spaceship and heavyweight spaceship, but longer. On its own an overweight spaceship is unstable because the three cells at its top do not die off like the corresponding sparks at the top of the smaller spaceships. Nonetheless, it can be escorted by true spaceships to form a flotilla. 01:25:19 awesome 01:25:36 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Spaceship_flotilla 01:26:23 "Everything else", what a great category 01:28:30 You never heard of OWSS before? 01:29:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:29:50 "In June, 2010 Dave Greene constructed the first true knightship in Life, which is based on Gemini and travels at a velocity of (4096,8192)/c35567490." 01:29:58 http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=406&start=25a#p2578 01:31:15 Now try to play these computer game "CGA Collection"!! (It is not quite finish yet, sorry) http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip 01:31:34 I thought Gemini was a true knightship? 01:31:43 That had the replicator bits disabled for some reason 01:32:30 "and he has studied the Long Life rule." ;; what's this? 01:32:31 Glasgeo: wut? 01:32:40 it's not a knightship, knigtship is 01:32:45 *knightship 01:32:48 A knightship is a spaceship of type (2m,m)/n (that is, a spaceship that moves two cells horizontally for every one cell it moves vertically). Knightships must be asymmetric and their period must be at least 6, which makes searching for them using programs like lifesrc very difficult. An "almost knightship" was found on March 23, 2004, which would be a period 6 knightship if it weren't for three cells that are incorrect in its sixth generation.[1] 01:32:49 Alternatively, 'knightship' may refer to any spaceship that travels in an oblique direction (not diagonally or orthogonally). The first oblique spaceship to be discovered, Gemini, was found in May, 2010 with a velocity of (5120,1024)c/33699586. In June, 2010 Dave Greene constructed the first true knightship in Life, which is based on Gemini and travels at a velocity of (4096,8192)/c35567490.[2] 01:33:01 replicator bits disabled? what? 01:33:27 alise, I thought gemini was .. for some reason, not itself a replicator, but could be turned into one 01:33:33 It occurs to me that I may be mixed up 01:33:40 you mean Spartan? 01:33:49 that's just a computer + constructor without an appropriate replicating program 01:33:53 separate issue 01:34:01 Oh, "true" knightship 01:34:01 gemini is a self-removing oblique replicator spaceship 01:34:04 that has been modified into a knightship 01:34:08 Goodnight. 01:34:09 Bye. 01:34:11 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:34:11 Bye 01:40:49 In addition, I have been assigned to work on a PXE Linux module. How do I send a UDP packet with that? 01:47:54 what? 01:47:59 a GoL compiler? 01:51:55 Wooo! 01:52:10 I can now bruteforce a list of all usernames at my school [and everyone has a username] 01:56:39 generated ones? 01:57:16 Based on last name and first and middle initial 01:57:39 I'm still looking for an actual list 01:57:46 I'm not going to start bruteforcing stuff 01:58:23 how about umlaut? 02:01:27 ümläüt 02:03:45 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/H%C3%AB%C3%A4v%C3%BF_M%C3%ABt%C3%A4l_%C3%9Cml%C3%A4%C3%BCt_D%C3%A4%C3%BF, argh. 02:04:52 From usernames, I can now go to full names 02:07:35 nö wäÿ! 02:11:46 You'll NEVER guess MY full name from my username. 02:16:52 * oerjan side attacks Gregor 02:17:11 Side ... channel attacks? 02:17:15 Gareth, Rex Oregon? 02:17:31 Erm. 02:17:40 Gareth, Rex Gorbinald 02:17:42 There. 02:17:49 That one actually makes sense. 02:17:50 First was right. 02:17:59 Gregor: King of Oregon? 02:18:04 Yup 02:18:08 Awesome. 02:18:23 * oerjan channels a richards 02:19:08 lousy latin grammar. itym Oregonis. 02:19:27 Garethus, Rex Oregonis. 02:21:59 oerjan: Latin Sine Flexione, you fool. :P 02:22:40 *Latino 02:22:57 Okay, in that case your pedantry is more than valid. 02:23:29 lex muphriana 03:10:11 I wrote a Underload interpreter in TeX 03:11:02 : is \begingroup and ! is \endgroup 03:17:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:18:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:08:59 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:10:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:12:17 -!- augur has joined. 04:22:01 -!- antivigilante has joined. 04:31:54 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:24:17 -!- augur has joined. 05:25:47 http://sprunge.us/aXWH 05:47:13 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:49:12 -!- antivigilante has joined. 05:59:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:18:39 -!- augur has joined. 06:23:44 -!- Joseph1 has joined. 06:30:32 -!- Joseph1 has left (?). 06:36:24 I have just corrected a serious bug in the Underload interpreter. Fixed version: http://sprunge.us/jLSD 06:39:35 When it asks for the filename, type the filename of Underload program (extension .ul is assumed). Program output is sent to file called underload.out 06:44:43 -!- lament has joined. 07:02:13 -!- tombom has joined. 07:06:09 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:09:47 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 07:10:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:12:09 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:12:15 -!- hailtothethief has joined. 07:12:39 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:15:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:09 -!- augur has joined. 07:41:48 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:48:56 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:34:05 -!- Kordalien has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:56:58 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:16:38 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:21:31 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:25:04 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:53:06 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:53:57 -!- kwertii has joined. 10:06:22 -!- hailtothethief has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:13:43 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:37:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:33:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:49:48 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 12:05:13 -!- antivigilante has joined. 12:16:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug 12:34:34 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 12:43:49 -!- sftp has joined. 12:57:09 -!- sftp_ has joined. 12:57:46 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:04:39 -!- sftp has joined. 13:05:18 -!- sftp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:11:37 -!- alise has joined. 13:17:07 -!- Glasgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:21:00 hello sweethearts <3 13:25:22 Hey 13:34:57 hi Quadlex, you new? 13:46:13 Just to make tab completing a pain, hi everyone 13:46:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:53:32 I make tab-completing a pain too. we're not alone :. 13:54:11 Gralise 14:14:19 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Quit: ...). 14:37:54 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:38:23 -!- sftp has joined. 14:47:42 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:48:07 -!- sftp has joined. 14:50:49 -!- augur has joined. 14:59:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:00:36 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 15:01:55 -!- Kordalien has joined. 15:09:08 -!- Harpyon has joined. 15:09:48 Grails 15:10:11 * alise decides to design a simple RISC. 15:10:54 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:11:26 I'm tired of powers of two. Why not a 24-bit processor?!?!! 15:11:59 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 15:14:31 i made 15-bit one 15:15:20 i wonder how practical 24-bit is in hw if you did some fun stuff 15:15:23 nooga: you're the hw expert, ansewr 15:15:25 *answer 15:18:00 nooga: that's totally not answering 15:24:33 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 15:25:01 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:28:54 nooga: :| 15:31:00 Vorpal: your RoadRunner bullshit is over 15:31:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(computer) 15:31:05 Meet the new king. 15:31:14 Cray is back, bitches. 15:31:22 And it looks awesome: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/JaguarXT5.jpg 15:31:41 alise: sry 15:31:43 i was cooking 15:31:50 nooga: LESS COOKING MORE ANSWERING 15:32:17 well 15:32:37 *Roadrunner 15:33:40 i think that 24b would act pretty simmilar to any other architecture 15:35:39 nooga: but RAM is based on powers of two, right? 15:35:43 perhaps not 15:35:55 hmm, there's nothing actually inherent in a power of two bitsize is there? 15:38:05 nooga: although a 24-bit computer could only address 16 megs of ram :P 15:38:33 nooga: unless you used two words per address, then it'd be 256 terabytes, which is a nice number 15:40:31 nooga: comment, HW slave 15:41:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:42:19 -!- augur has joined. 15:44:33 More CA thoughts! 15:45:10 Phantom_Hoover: i said stuff for you in the logs 15:45:36 17:20:25 http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Heat 15:45:36 17:20:32 everything is at absolute zero in a conservative CA :) 15:45:36 17:20:36 wait, no 15:45:36 17:20:38 there is still heat 15:45:36 17:20:49 Phantom_Hoover logreading: ^ work that into the "real-physics" CA :P 15:45:41 Phantom_Hoover: Work as in "work heat preservation in". 15:45:51 Some sort of heat-energy equivalence. So on. 15:45:57 So forth. 15:48:24 15:11:07 --- nick: Sgeo -> Glasgeo 15:49:08 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:49:15 Yes? 15:52:40 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 15:54:09 Words fail me on that one. 15:55:05 Making a conservative CA reversible would presumably entail constraining the rules such that the number of cells that change can be no more than the number of existing ones... 15:56:23 Phantom_Hoover: WHY DO WORDS FAIL YOU 15:56:26 WE NEED REALISTIC CA PHYSICS 15:56:37 Phantom_Hoover: Otherwise you could have a perpetual motion machine. 15:56:41 Without food. 15:56:44 THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE 15:56:52 No, on Sgeo's nick change. 15:57:10 Perpetual motion is possible in this universe, anyway. 15:57:21 Free energy is the impossible one. 15:58:17 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:46 Phantom_Hoover: I DON'T WNAT TO BE PSIBLE 15:59:09 But you have just outlawed gliders! 15:59:58 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 16:00:10 Phantom_Hoover: No! The gliders can eat food. 16:00:15 To keep going. 16:01:31 Phantom_Hoover: Pick a number of bits. 16:01:47 They're not gliders, then. 16:01:55 They're burning fuses. 16:02:05 Phantom_Hoover: Fine. 16:02:07 SO BE IT 16:02:23 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:02:34 And when did you turn into Stephen Wolfram? 16:03:04 THIS UNIVERSE IS *NOT* BASED ON A CA 16:03:06 THAT IS WHY IT IS INFERIOR 16:03:08 WE MUST BUILD ONE THAT IS 16:03:10 AND TRANSFER INTO IT 16:03:14 THEN SHED OFF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES 16:03:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:03:19 ALL OF THEM; THE REVOLUTION SHALL BE AUTOMATIC 16:03:23 NO CONSENT WILL BE NECESSARY 16:03:39 EVERYONE'S BODIES WILL BE UNNECESSARY THEY SHALL BE A 100X100 PATTERN OF CELLS IN THE NEW UNIVERSAL ORDER 16:04:26 "While many people call the GNU system GNU/Hurd this is not strictly true. The kernel is GNU Mach not the Hurd. The Hurd is a series of servers which run on top of the microkernel, GNU Mach. Both the Hurd and GNU Mach are part of the GNU project while the Linux kernel is an independent project." 16:04:27 SILLY PEOPLE 16:04:50 Then why bother with replicating real physics to a boring degree? 16:05:18 ASDFG 16:05:29 And anyway, computation requires energy loss AFAIK. 16:05:57 Length: 4525166592 (4.2G) [application/x-iso9660-image] 16:05:57 Saving to: `debian-L1-hurd-i386-DVD1.iso' 16:05:57 0% [ ] 39,734,084 840K/s eta 88m 29s 16:06:12 Phantom_Hoover: More seriously -- I don't believe in that heat idea -- that's why you just shed it (in a conservative automaton). 16:06:15 Spit out gliders or whatever. 16:06:20 Or still life, or oscillators. 16:06:24 *still lifes, 16:06:29 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:06:52 Shed energy? 16:06:57 Cells, that is. 16:06:58 Besides, f(x,y) = (x+y,x-y) is a reversible implementation of both addition and subtraction without having to use a bit bucket. 16:07:10 (The bit that requires a bit bucket is throwing away one of them and only using the other.) 16:07:13 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 16:07:31 *(x+y, x-y), that is. 16:09:24 But if you don't want x-y? 16:09:41 Then you throw it into the bit bucket. Or just let it take up that memory and ignore it. 16:09:48 Although making it nonreversible makes the bit bucket a rather cooler idea. 16:09:53 I see you are not familiar with reversible computing. 16:09:59 It is actually a bucket. Of its. 16:10:01 *bits 16:10:05 Also, the bit bucket is just terminology for pooping. 16:10:11 In modern CPUs, the bit bucket is heat. 16:10:11 I am, I just liked the idea... 16:10:18 But if you don't want x-y? 16:10:20 seemed to imply not. 16:10:22 Anyway, yeah. 16:10:43 In a reversible automaton, the bit bucket would just be throwing out junk like gliders, still lifes or oscillators. 16:10:46 To get rid of the cells. 16:10:48 Synthesis is also possible this way, but it's very wasteful. 16:10:59 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:08 Why am I dedicating 4.2 gigs on my disk to HURD? Who knows? 16:11:19 *the Hurd. Because it's a lowercase acronym! 16:11:29 -!- augur has joined. 16:12:03 Arch Hurd is for wimps. Debian is where it at 16:12:45 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:13:01 Archhurd, something like an archbishop but for a hird of hurds. 16:13:33 eHird, an online Hurd instance. 16:13:53 Your hurdistic tendencies must be because of the name. 16:14:34 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 16:16:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:17:10 My professor essentially told me to stop asking hypothetical questions, I might be confusing the other students 16:17:26 What are you actually taking? 16:17:32 13% [====> ] 614,377,898 834K/s eta 78m 26s 16:17:36 So I'll ask in here: Can I have a variable that evaluates to two unrelated things in string and number contexts, the way $! does? 16:18:03 Unfortunately, nobody here answers hypothetical questions. 16:18:06 Say Phantom_Hoover, what if a duck died? 16:18:38 It would quack its last? 16:18:42 -!- hailtothethief has joined. 16:18:47 Phantom_Hoover: oh no! 16:19:00 THAT MAKES ME THE SADDEST. 16:21:08 Stop asking hypothetical questions! 16:24:47 How does eating work in a reversible, conservative CA? 16:25:05 You can't just shoot a glider at a block and get two gliders coming back. 16:25:52 Imagine a "spaceship" with a fuse inside that is always ticking. It has a little tendril thing that, upon collision with a properly-shaped niblet of food, shoves it down to the end of the fuse. 16:26:01 If the fuse were ever to run out, it would implode. 16:26:18 D: 16:27:00 IF THE FUSE WERE EVER TO RUN OUT, IT WOULD IMPLODE. 16:27:15 hi hailtothethief 16:27:17 IF THE FUSE WERE EVER TO RUN OUT, IT WOULD IMPLODE. 16:29:34 Does that satisfy reversibility as well? 16:30:05 Is there a receipt to the universe saying "I ate that block"? 16:34:03 Phantom_Hoover: It "eats" it by using some sort of transport mechanism to push it along a wire, and pop it on the end of the fuse. 16:34:18 That is, it directly and literally uses the food. It burns the food to move. 16:34:32 I don't think that can be reversed... 16:34:36 Of course, there could be some sort of digestive system where it turns the inert food into something more useful. 16:34:41 Phantom_Hoover: The burning, of course, gets released. 16:34:51 But of course moving a cell and putting at the end of some other cells is reversible... 16:34:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:13 The burning is just some reaction that turns the food into a small oscillator or something that escapes the glider, after using some of its energy to help move the big, food-ship. 16:35:54 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:36:23 -!- antivigilante has joined. 16:38:51 -!- hailtothethief has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:41:36 So wait, how does reversibility make it cooler? 16:41:54 -!- Kordalien has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:42:12 Phantom_Hoover: Because physics is. 16:42:17 And reversibility is COOL. 16:42:23 Watch the unrise of civilisation! 16:42:36 "Hmm, I wonder if there's a nicer predecessor of this... ...yep." 16:42:40 does anybody know if mono execs run under windows? 16:43:48 43% [===============> ] 1,957,187,962 834K/s eta 50m 42s 16:43:50 nooga: yes. 16:43:56 if they install mono :P 16:44:03 i guess you can probably bundle the framework with it? 16:44:06 dunno, use google 16:45:57 nooga: 36 or 54 bits, which is cooler 16:46:39 36 can address 64 gigabytes, 54 can address 16 petabytes :P 16:50:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(computer) Meet the new king. <-- I have known about that for weeks 16:50:22 alise, and I 16:50:26 CRAY MOTHERFUCKER 16:50:29 I'm* not attached to roadrunner in specific 16:50:30 THEY BUILD FAST THINGS 16:50:36 just to 16:50:38 :P 16:50:51 alise, so you completely fail at trolling 16:51:25 IBM POSERS DON'T MOTHAFUCKIN' KNOW HOW A FAST BEASTLY COMPUTAH BE LOOKIN. THEY JUST SHOVE THEIR COMPUTERS TOGETHER N CALL IT WINNING. NO MOTHERFUCKER! CRAY! CRAY INC! FUCKING CRAY INC! THEY BUILD FAST THINGS! THEY BUILD FAST THINGS WITH A FREAKIN "JAGUAR" AND A FREAKIN JAGUAR ON THE FRONT BECAUSE THEY ARE MOTHERFUCKING CRAY 16:51:37 CRAY INC COULD TAKE OVER IBM TOMORROW... BUT WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO 16:51:44 CRAY INC MOTHERFUCKER! CRAY! CRAY! 16:51:46 the end 16:52:03 i wanna try the Cray Linux Environment 16:52:06 gotta be crazy 16:52:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebulae_%28computer%29 God that name annoys me 16:52:27 you already are, 16:52:33 s/,/./ 16:52:39 Phantom_Hoover: IT'S MULTIPLE NEBULAE 16:53:00 But they refer to it in the singular! 16:53:11 theoretical peak performance, n. a bullshit figure we extrapolated from a reality in which the speed of light is 20x what it is in our universe. 16:53:32 [[UNICOS/lc: not derived from UNICOS, but based on SuSE Linux. Used on the XT3, XT4 and XT5. UNICOS/lc 1.x comprises a combination of the Catamount microkernel (based on Cougar, used on the ASCI Red system) running on the compute elements, and SuSE Linux running on the service elements. In UNICOS/lc 2.0, Catamount is replaced by a customized Linux kernel, called Compute Node Linux (CNL). [1] From release 2.1 onwards, UNICOS/lc is now called Cray Linux Enviro 16:53:32 nment (CLE).]] 16:53:43 CRAY: RUNNING LINUX ON TOP OF A MICROKERNEL 16:54:09 fucking crays, how do they work 16:55:13 56% [===================> ] 2,538,296,296 762K/s eta 39m 12s 16:55:15 How the hell...? 16:55:31 You can't run Linux on a different kernel! 16:55:31 Phantom_Hoover: FUCKING CRAY MOTHERFUCKER 16:55:33 theoretical peak performance, n. a bullshit figure we extrapolated from a reality in which the speed of light is 20x what it is in our universe. <-- [citation needed] 16:55:36 IF YOU ADD A Z TO CRAY YOU GET CRAZY 16:55:45 CRAY IS MOTHERFUCKIN CRAZY AND NO APOLOGIES 16:55:50 DOING SHIT NOT EVEN POSSIBLE 16:55:55 VORPAL: HUMOUR DETECTION ENGINE NEEDED YO 16:56:01 CRAY INC GETS ALL THE FUCKIN HUMOUR 16:56:19 SEYMOUR CRAY ONCE PUNCHED CHUCK NORRIS. HE GOT CANCER (CHUCK NORRIS) 16:56:27 alise, it is easier if it is actually funny 16:56:40 Vorpal: it was a slight against the Nebulae figure 16:56:41 And then Paul Erdös punched them both. 16:56:47 (>2 petaflops theoretical peak performance) 16:56:51 yes indeed it was 16:56:52 (Jaguar gets 1 petaflops sustained in practice) 16:57:13 Phantom_Hoover: Accent fail. 16:57:27 It's ErdÅ‘s, goddammit! ErdÅ‘s! 16:57:34 Erdøs? 16:57:43 ErdÅ‘s!!! 16:57:49 I didn't know the compose sequence for that... 16:57:52 I would put it in capitals but I can't type that Å‘. :P 16:57:54 Phantom_Hoover: COPY AND PASTE MAN 16:57:57 CRAY WOULD COPY AND PASTE 16:59:33 CRAY WOULD USE NC AND PUT THE BYTES IN MANUALLY 16:59:42 NO 16:59:51 CRAY USES FIBER-OPTIC CABLES RECTALLY 17:00:11 HE TICKLES IN THE INDIVIDUAL BITS OF LIGHT 17:04:24 66% [=======================> ] 3,003,294,256 840K/s eta 30m 3s 17:04:35 WITH A CRAY COMPUTER ON AN IDENTICAL NETWORK THIS WOULD HAVE DOWNLOADED IN THREE MINUTES 17:04:45 TWO IF YOU DISABLE ALL THE CPUS WHICH WORKS BECAUSE OF CRAY GODDAMN 17:06:32 alise, watched that minecraft video you mentioned yesterday 17:06:33 cool 17:06:50 yeah i wish we saw it actually computing though -- or maybe we did, and it was just not really seen :P 17:07:24 Phantom_Hoover, what about the ~ key followed by o ? That works here... but then ~ is a dead key. 17:07:31 so it does nothing with compose 17:07:48 õ 17:07:49 õ 17:07:53 Vorpal: Fail. 17:07:53 That's not it. 17:07:58 hm 17:08:03 That's not even *close* 17:08:05 ah yeah 17:08:07 If anything, it'd be ``o. 17:08:09 same at this font size 17:08:10 Anyway, dead keys suck shit. 17:08:39 Isn't shift a dead key sort of? 17:08:40 alise, not when you write a language where they are useful 17:08:57 alise, like é and è. Happens in Swedish every now and then. 17:09:01 Also known as LANGUAGES OF FAIL. 17:09:04 Vorpal: we get that too. 17:09:09 Café 17:09:16 alise, a bit tricky to write on your keyboard though 17:09:24 idé (en:idea) 17:09:36 Altgr-; e 17:09:42 Not difficult. Although I forget which. 17:09:53 (which key after altgr; but that's only because I use it rarely.) 17:09:58 alise, so altgr-; is a dead key 17:10:09 (or whatever key) 17:10:33 It's not a dead key if there's a modifier involved. 17:11:11 alise, define dead key then. I thought it meant "does nothing until you press another key" 17:11:56 dead key is a single key on the keyboard that, when pressed alone, does nothing until you press another key, inserting a combined accent version or, when combined with e.g. space, inserts the character itself. 17:11:59 *a dead key 17:12:04 alise, because by your logic some "dead keys" on Swedish keyboards are not. Because they have different stuff on shifted and non-shifted (but both are dead) 17:12:05 they are very annoying. especially when one's on ' 17:12:09 (this is the source of "don`t syndrome") 17:12:23 alise, um ' is not a dead key here 17:12:39 please quote the line where i stated it is 17:12:54 alise, well you implied that there are keyboard layouts on which it is the case 17:13:04 otherwise such a syndrome wouldn't exist 17:13:24 they do. 17:13:27 please quote the line where i stated it is on yours 17:13:37 alise, is it on UK? 17:13:44 no. 17:13:52 alise, also I didn't say you implied it was on Swedish layout 17:13:56 I was just noting that it wasn't 17:14:15 alise, which keyboard layouts have ' as dead then... 17:14:53 a few. 17:20:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:22:26 -!- nooga has joined. 17:27:24 Yay, I found the article on Sexyloop! 17:29:10 Phantom_Hoover, Do I dare ask what that is? 17:29:42 It's just a variant of Langton's Loop capable of genetic transfer between loops. 17:32:12 http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~on5ag/sexyloop.html 17:36:54 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:37:27 * Phantom_Hoover → stuff 17:37:40 I'll try to tablify that rule when I get back. 17:41:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:46:50 alise, hm is the article only on IEEE exlore? 17:46:53 explore* 17:47:28 seems so. there's also http://homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~on5ag/mypapers/OROS_2009_IEEE_ALIFE_b.pdf 17:47:38 https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/1735/1/901918.pdf 17:47:41 the original paper 17:47:43 thanks google 17:47:50 damn "Content is outside your subscription" 17:47:55 see my link 17:47:56 I can't get it through university proxy 17:48:01 https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2299/1735/1/901918.pdf 17:48:42 (Reviewing the state-of-the-art in modern abstract fields of mathematics without providing an instrument of capitalism requires breaking international law. Discuss.) 17:48:51 wait no 17:48:52 it isn't 17:48:59 I was just somehow fucking up the url 17:49:00 there 17:49:25 * Vorpal reads the ieee publication 17:49:38 alise: I do not quite understand what you mean by that 17:49:43 Vorpal: I *linked to the IEEE publication*. 17:49:47 (no I won't share, all pdfs are watermarked with who and when downloaded it) 17:49:50 alise, ah 17:50:02 zzo38: The law is copyright law, the instrument of capitalism is the almighty dollar, and the state-of-the-art is recorded in papers. 17:50:34 The only exception is, of course, if you live in a country that (a) has free university and (b) has free universities whose subscription extends to those papers. 17:50:52 alise, a and b applies here? 17:51:01 Vorpal: Yes; you're lucky. 17:51:19 Vorpal: Although your *state* is now feeding the IEEE, which is rather questionable from the IEEE-isn't-very-not-evil point of view. 17:51:25 alise: Now I understand. 17:51:39 alise, of course. I realise that is somewhat tricky 17:51:48 But it means they need to make mathematics papers that are public domain and freely available 17:51:49 alise, at least it isn't pay-per-downloaded-paper or such afaik 17:51:57 alise, as in, my action won't require them to pay more 17:52:03 I think they have yearly subscription 17:52:09 Vorpal: Even that has issues, effectively imposing a minimum age limit on reading research papers; getting into university at an early age (a) sucks and (b) is extraordinarily difficult. 17:52:18 alise, true 17:52:20 zzo38: Agreed! 17:52:27 You shouldn't need the IEEE to do these things! 17:52:27 Open access is incredibly important. 17:52:30 It's just a shame it's not universal. 17:52:39 alise, and when I'm done at university it will be harder again 17:52:58 Vorpal: Unless you become a prof. Which has the issue of being... difficult. 17:53:04 hm true 17:53:09 alise, anyway, for math isn't ACM more prestigious than IEEE? 17:53:10 Although you do get tenure :P 17:53:14 though I can access ACM too 17:53:17 Vorpal: Dude, ACM isn't mathematics. 17:53:19 ACM is CS. 17:53:21 ah 17:53:26 You mean the AMS, presumably. 17:53:35 alise, what does the M in ACM stand for? 17:53:37 alise, yes I did 17:53:41 Computing Machinery 17:53:46 (Association of) 17:53:54 alise, what exactly does tenure mean btw? 17:53:57 (IEEE is about *electronic engineering* of all things; for some perverted reason computing counts as related to electricity.) 17:54:05 Vorpal: Tenure commonly refers to life tenure in a job and specifically to a senior academic's contractual right not to have his or her position terminated without just cause. 17:54:11 tl;dr "You're a prof. You can't get fired." 17:54:28 alise, hm I don't know if that is true in Sweden 17:54:30 You can publish whatever crap you want as long as you don't, like, rape someone. 17:54:32 I never heard of such stuff here 17:54:42 It is a bit of a ridiculous system. 17:54:50 alise, and is not in use here afaik 17:55:09 So your processors actually do things? WEIRD :P 17:55:10 *professors 17:55:28 [[Professor - Requires a PhD degree, a strong publication record, proven teaching skills, and supervision as main supervisor of PhD students which have successfully obtained their PhD. Similar to a tenured, senior, full professor in the USA.]] 17:55:32 maybe just de facto tenure, then 17:56:27 hm 17:56:59 alise, and from observation I believe that the main drive in a professor is avoiding students and somehow get away with just doing research 17:57:17 Sounds pretty good to me :P 17:57:24 http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/gallery/5demotivator/31.jpg 17:57:29 Vorpal: SWEDEN WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN FOR THIS. 17:57:30 alise, from what I understand it is rather hard to get away with 17:57:43 Jätte mumsig MY ASS. 17:57:46 alise, huh, I never seen that 17:58:01 alise, that was obscene 17:58:06 (the combination I meant) 17:58:12 I refuse to translate it. 17:58:43 Gahaha (Translated myself) 17:58:47 alise, notice the blue label, translates to "American taste" 17:59:02 alise, well it isn't obscene on it's own. Just when combined with "my ass" as you did. 17:59:09 i gathered 17:59:14 American taste my ass. 17:59:19 (though not exactly gramatically correct) 17:59:26 alise, XD 18:00:35 They may actually have managed to make bacon awful. A previously unheard of feat. 18:00:56 alise, I don't think it was a Swedish invention 18:01:02 just an example of the idea 18:01:08 IT'S YOUR FAULT ALL YOUR FAULT 18:01:16 alise, also how can you know what it tastes like without trying it? 18:01:51 alise, I mean, americans invented squeezeable cheese. That is even worse. 18:01:51 Dude, it's a *squeeze bottle* with cheapl-= 18:01:53 erm 18:01:56 Dude, it's a *squeeze bottle* with cheap-looking packaging, 18:02:03 advertising *an actual replacement for bacon* coming out of the little hole. 18:02:07 Not even "bacon flavouring". 18:02:12 Squeeze out bacon! 18:02:16 There is no question that it is terrible. 18:03:15 alise, this is worse. By far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Cheese 18:03:40 No, I'm pretty sure squeezed bacon is going to taste worse than squeezed cheese. 18:04:00 At least the texture of squeezed cheese will be *SOMETHING* like cheese. 18:04:01 alise, no way 18:04:06 Bacon is crispy. 18:04:08 alise, depends on what cheese 18:04:16 alise, cheddar? No way 18:04:21 "Although sometimes called "aerosol cheese", its container is not actually an aerosol spray can, because the cheese does not combine with the propellant (nitrogen) to turn into a fine mist upon being sprayed." ;; THIS WOULD BE HILARIOUS 18:04:29 some soft cheeses will be a bit similar 18:04:49 Vorpal: Cheddar is quite a soft solid. It's not rock-hard, crispy, or anything. 18:04:55 Bacon is always at least slightly CRISPY. 18:06:02 2010-09-29 17:34:22 (821 KB/s) - `debian-L1-hurd-i386-DVD1.iso' saved [4525166592/4525166592] 18:06:11 Length: 4525166592 (4.2G) [application/x-iso9660-image] 18:06:25 Vorpal: Cheddar is quite a soft solid. It's not rock-hard, crispy, or anything. <-- that varies between types of cheeses 18:06:30 there are some very hard ones 18:06:40 harder than hard cheddar even (which is already quite a hard one) 18:06:54 now, bbl, food (sadly without squeezed bacon) 18:07:26 Vorpal: BUT WAIT 18:07:32 Vorpal: I'M ABOUT TO INSTALL DEBIAN GNU/HURD IN A VM 18:10:03 http://i.imgur.com/e8UPJ.png 18:11:03 "The Rescue disk CANNOT be used for system recovery." 18:11:21 Haha, it actually uses Linux to unpack baseGNU.tgz onto the partition. 18:11:23 Genius. 18:12:00 Wow, it starts with an image of Tux with a beercan. 18:13:44 erm 18:13:51 is hurd usable? 18:14:01 it can run GNOME 18:14:06 so what 18:14:17 your definition of usable always seems to be linux 18:14:18 so "no" 18:14:26 Gregor used it for a while 18:14:50 OSX is usable 18:16:03 "Linux or OS X or maybe a BSD", then. 18:20:55 Writing programs in TeX can easily confuse the syntax highlighter 18:21:41 Forth codes can do that, too. 18:22:19 plan 9 is cool 18:22:24 but not exactly usable 18:24:00 Please review this program: http://sprunge.us/jLSD 18:24:24 zzo38: Yes. 18:24:54 alise: Yes to what question? 18:25:03 Yes to the program. 18:25:35 Do you think it is workable? 18:25:55 I have tried a few Underload programs and it does works. 18:26:37 Although sometimes there is error due to capacity of TeX 18:27:21 Also, each "S" command sends output to a separate line in the output file, instead of all on one line, how Underload is meant to. 18:28:49 Other than that it works perfectly OK as far as I can tell. 18:29:42 It should work. 18:29:50 I'd recommend rendering the result rather than using an output file, for extra coolness. 18:30:00 Now can you learn? 18:30:24 alise: Yes, however, some programs run infinite loops, so that is why it won't work to render the result. 18:30:55 Ah. 18:33:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:35:11 I have even heard of a BASIC interpreter written in TeX 18:36:16 What's that about Pushkin? 18:36:47 Pushkin? 18:37:52 alise: It was something in Godel, Escher, Bach. Someone said that line, after mishearing someone reading the book that the story they are in said something 18:38:14 back 18:38:27 Vorpal: I'M ABOUT TO INSTALL DEBIAN GNU/HURD IN A VM <-- why not natively? 18:39:18 Vorpal: lawl 18:39:21 I would also like some review of this game: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip 18:39:22 zzo38: call the interpreter jLSD 18:39:30 You do realise Hurd doesn't even support USB? :P 18:39:30 alise, :P 18:39:41 alise, hah 18:39:45 I think my DVD is corrupt or something. I'm gonna try the mini install CD. 18:39:46 zzo38: how do i run this game under linux? 18:39:48 All those 4 gigs for nuthin'. 18:39:56 nooga: you can't, linux isn't usable 18:40:08 alise, torrent it? That tends to have better error checking. Though I doubt anyone would see a hurd dvd 18:40:14 *seed 18:40:23 Vorpal: It's actually based on Debian woody, despite coming out late last year. 18:40:30 Woody is from *2002*. 18:40:42 Now consider how obsolete Debian stable releases become in their lifetime. 18:40:43 nooga: Probably best using a DOS emulator. Although if you want, you can try to recompile it using FreeBASIC (which would require modifying the programs). 18:40:49 The release after, sarge, came in 2005. 18:40:59 alise, indeed 18:41:00 By that time, woody would have been hopelessly, comically outdated, as old-release-schedule Debian releases did. 18:41:05 Now consider it in *late 2009*. 18:41:20 alise, still beats mastodon 18:41:21 :P 18:41:36 Vorpal: Except mastodon is designed to be retro and is actually maintained -- or, well, was when anyone used it. 18:41:46 alise, well yes 18:42:04 Are Debian going to use names from Toy Story 3 in the future? 18:42:43 Heh. 18:42:49 Not many new "characters" in 3 had names... 18:43:02 alise, upgrading X while running X. How insane is that? 18:43:11 so far I noticed no issues with that 18:43:17 and I haven't restarted X yet 18:43:40 zzo38: i dont know how to play some of these 18:44:00 nooga: What questions do you have specific? 18:44:06 I can try to answer you 18:44:31 stroker? 18:44:40 Toy Story 3 is awesome btw. 18:44:56 nooga: Probably best using a DOS emulator. Although if you want, you can try to recompile it using FreeBASIC (which would require modifying the programs). <-- which programs? 18:45:35 Vorpal: They would require modifying the .BAS programs to make them work properly under FreeBASIC. Although a DOS emulator (or another computer with DOS) will work, too. 18:46:12 oh 18:46:14 zzo38, I asked "which programs" 18:46:17 now i found the doc 18:46:22 nooga: I can explain STROKER: 18:46:33 zzo38, as in, what do the .BAS programs do 18:46:34 (The doc doesn't explain everything yet, unfortunately. It is not finish) 18:47:06 STROKER game you push space bar, arrow keys (you can step on each space only once), and then if you make that no rows contain both green and red blocks, then you win. 18:47:14 Vorpal: The .BAS programs do game program. 18:47:31 what sort of games? 18:47:40 Vorpal: Game programs. 18:47:45 (Except CGACOLL.BAS, which just calculates the size of the files) 18:48:03 alise, like... RPG? Card games? Racing games? text adventure? 18:48:05 or what 18:48:05 Vorpal: There are many kinds of games. 18:48:11 Vorpal: Games! 18:48:19 alise, -_- 18:48:52 alise, why not implement USB support in Hurd 18:48:54 maybe just 1.1 18:49:13 because they're too busy wanking over their amazing design and... doing... something that i'm not sure exactly what it is 18:49:21 besides, doesn't your bios provide PS/2 compatibility?! 18:49:24 just bring your ISA video card! 18:49:31 alise, aha, it is like tenured profs 18:49:35 they don't do anything 18:49:38 COREBOOT(not-TM) Optimised! 18:49:39 Vorpal: The program ELEMENTA is a implementation of a card game. 18:49:41 but seem to act busy 18:49:47 "not-TM" linking to a rant on why trademarks are evil, naturally! 18:49:52 alise, it actually said that? 18:49:54 XD 18:49:56 Vorpal: no 18:49:57 but it should! 18:50:03 zzo38, mhm 18:50:07 the hurd guys tend to be the crazies more than the zealots :P 18:50:09 zzo38, any RPGs or such? 18:50:57 Vorpal: No... 18:51:13 oh well 18:51:39 Maybe the STARWARS game counts, sort of... 18:51:51 oh? 18:52:02 zzo38, I don't have DOS handy btw 18:52:12 and I don't plan to code any basic 18:52:31 The STARWARS program is a two player game, it is the only two players game in the package 18:52:42 Vorpal: they work with DOSBox, usually 18:52:45 zzo38's basic games 18:52:54 Hurd uses its own extended version of ext2. :) 18:53:02 zzo38: sovminga is quite amusing 18:53:11 oh, two player, not really possible to try it atm then 18:53:14 extended version of extended 18:53:16 (I got the rules from a paper that described it as a sort of RPG, but it isn't really a true RPG) 18:53:21 alise, well, installing dosbox... too much work 18:53:24 I'm laz 18:53:26 lazy* 18:53:31 sudo aptitude install dosbox 18:53:38 dosbox 18:53:42 alise, pacman atm 18:53:43 but meh 18:53:47 Z:\> mount c ~/ 18:53:51 Z:\> cd zzo 18:53:53 nooga: In case you want to know, SOVMINGA is actually short for "Soviet Mind Game" 18:53:54 erm 18:53:57 Z:\> C: 18:53:59 C:\> cd zzo 18:54:00 C:\> game 18:54:06 zzo38: looks like normal tetris 18:54:21 It's funny because Tetris comes from Soviet Russia. 18:54:34 nooga: It is, although there are some options you can change which make it a bit different from normal Tetris. 18:54:39 alise, and yeah, too much work. 18:54:52 Vorpal: Yes, because six lines is work. 18:54:57 That's six lines including the actual starting of the game. 18:55:06 And they can be typed without even touching the mouse. 18:55:20 mhm 18:57:32 The program GIVEAWAY is actually a solitaire chess variant 18:57:55 But COLORSPI is one which I would like you to try 18:58:12 why all caps? 18:58:23 heh 18:58:30 Vorpal: Because it is DOS filenames 18:58:33 i just looked at the webpage of mastodon 18:58:42 no links, no download, nothing 18:58:47 zzo38, they are case insensitive afaik. No need to write them upper case 18:58:54 lower case or mixed case would work just as well 18:58:58 Vorpal: DIR lists them in uppercase. 18:59:14 Vorpal: I know but I prefer to type them in uppercase 18:59:16 alise, I'm aware of that, I don't think that is a justification 18:59:20 zzo38, ah okay 18:59:32 Vorpal: For the same reason, Lisp and Scheme functions are rendered in upper-case. 18:59:36 For instance, CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION. 19:00:06 All of these game programs are public domain, do as you like with it. 19:00:13 alise, not in most docs I have seen iirc. But yes quite commonly in error messages and such 19:00:47 Vorpal: When it is available, monospaced type is preferred. 19:00:54 In all other situations, upper-case should be and is used. 19:01:04 alise, R3RS seem to use lower case 19:01:10 err 19:01:11 5 19:01:12 not 3 19:01:16 wtf at that typo 19:01:22 Vorpal: it uses monospaced type. 19:01:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Antarctica 19:01:26 well yeah 19:02:03 why on earth is that not just integrated into the main article on Antarctica? 19:02:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Religion_in_Antarctica 19:02:32 Sub-categories! 19:02:34 Two levels deep! 19:02:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Church_buildings_in_Antarctica 19:03:21 Wow, Alcoholics Anonymous were there. 19:03:53 alise, I can only presume they somehow generated these for all continents or such 19:04:02 Nope. 19:04:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Church_buildings_in_Antarctica 19:04:04 wtf 19:04:05 Actual articles. 19:04:13 Five of them. 19:04:19 alise, well and then someone used that when it existed 19:04:43 Nope. 19:04:45 See page history. 19:05:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Las_Estrellas Civilian settlement in Antarctica. 19:06:02 alise, strange they had so many fires down there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapel_of_the_Snows both the original and the temp replacement burned 19:06:12 They're FIRES OF COLD. 19:06:49 -!- tombom has joined. 19:08:13 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Villa_Las_Estrellas.jpg 19:08:17 Wonderful. 19:08:41 GNU Emacs mostly does work, however there are a few issues. 19:08:41 dired on a directory hangs. (Use C-g C-g to break the unresponsive operation.) 19:08:41 http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/emacs.html 19:08:48 alise, yeah, but that must be in the *summer* I think 19:08:54 alise, it would be a lot worse in the winter 19:08:56 Vorpal: Of course. Still... 19:08:57 well 19:09:00 local summer 19:09:07 Apparently there are 15 children there! (at least in summer). 19:09:08 Must suck. 19:09:10 *summer.) 19:09:24 Also internet on three computers at the school. :P 19:09:28 alise, indeed. Cool to visit, sure. But not a place to live permanently 19:09:40 Well, when its cold, people tend to light fires... And those can ocassionally spread to unintentional places... :-) 19:09:48 alise, yeah that seems strange. Surely the govt offices would have internet? 19:10:13 Ilari_antrcomp, you would assume they built for coldness down there 19:10:23 I mean, with radiators and such 19:10:42 Bad use of radiators could also cause fires... 19:10:42 Vorpal: Clearly not! 19:11:00 Ilari_antrcomp, well yes 19:11:15 Ilari_antrcomp, bad use of a lot of things can cause fires 19:12:09 Well, maybe except LN2, LHe or dry ice... :-) 19:12:47 Ilari_antrcomp, LN2? LHe? 19:13:11 Liquid nitrogen, Liquid helium. 19:13:15 ah 19:13:30 hm 19:13:47 Ilari_antrcomp, shouldn't that be N3? 19:14:05 Vorpal: Triple bond between two nitrogen atoms. 19:14:11 ah right 19:14:14 thought backwards 19:14:29 Ilari_antrcomp, and hrrm does any of those three substances conduct electricity? 19:14:42 No. 19:14:55 ah hm, then indeed I can't think of a way to start a fire using those 19:15:01 oh wait 19:15:29 -!- hailtothethief has joined. 19:15:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:15:51 Ilari_antrcomp, indirectly: Lets say you have some sort of moving device, which if it stops operating could result in a fire hazard, Like, say, a cooling fan motor. 19:16:00 Ilari_antrcomp, now LHe on it 19:16:06 Ilari_antrcomp, watch the grease freeze 19:16:12 and thus the thing it cooled overhead 19:16:29 Ilari_antrcomp, there, fire from LHe. Though rather contrived I agree 19:16:39 OTOH, LOx is different stuff. Well, its cold. But the oxidant density wins over that by quite a margin... 19:17:13 Ilari_antrcomp, LOx? 19:17:21 Liquid oxygen... 19:17:21 wtf is x 19:17:24 oh 19:17:30 Ilari_antrcomp, shouldn't that be LO? 19:17:33 Good question why it isn't L02... 19:17:36 or LO2 19:17:37 rather 19:17:44 *LO2 19:17:56 Ilari_antrcomp, anyway, what do you think of my suggestion for starting fire with LHe? 19:18:54 OTOH, if you freeze the motor using that (if its electric), blocking the motion causes it to emit lots of heat, which would warm it back up... 19:20:03 Do you know in QBASIC? Using the SOUND command allows you to time shorter intervals than you can with the TIMER command. It is faster to check the states of the shift keys and control/alt and numlock/capslock/scrolllock than it is to check the states of the other keys. 19:20:10 Ilari_antrcomp, hrrm. Either make it non-electric or provide a continuous flow of LHe so that it cools quicker than it heats up 19:20:15 Here's trick that might work: "Fix" the fuses with nails. Then connect leads to block of superconductor and pour LHe on it... 19:20:30 Ilari_antrcomp, hah 19:20:45 That current is going to go up quite a bit... 19:21:44 * Ilari_antrcomp goes to check if any new installments of "things I don't work with" series have popped up... 19:22:58 *Things I won't work with" 19:32:33 Ilari_antrcomp, is there anything that can burn in an atmosphere of helium? 19:35:05 I doubt it. 19:35:12 Helium can combine with some elements 19:35:26 But I don't think it would be a burning scenario 19:35:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Compounds 19:35:58 AFAIK, He has no stable compounds. 19:36:22 "Calculations show that two new compounds containing a helium-oxygen bond could be stable." 19:36:46 still a hypothetical, apparently 19:38:02 LOFD 19:40:36 I have some music files on my computer that say this archive was downloaded from and the URL (HTTP), and not to be redistributed without permission. Well, I have not downloaded it as an archive, I have not downloaded it at that domain name, and I have not downloaded it over HTTP either. 19:40:55 It was downloaded over the gopher protocol (I forget the domain name) 19:42:30 AFAIK, He has no stable compounds. <-- stable under what conditions? 19:42:55 Helium is a noble gas? 19:43:41 yes, but some noble gases _do_ have stable compounds, if that section is to be believed 19:43:48 zzo38, yes and? Argon and iirc Xenon has some compounds 19:43:55 (helium and neon have no known ones) 19:44:24 Vorpal: I don't know, I just mentioned that it is a noble gas, in case that matters at all 19:45:10 well yes it is rather inert, but not completely it seems 19:46:35 Why? 19:47:00 I'm not a chemist 19:47:13 I'm not a chemist either, that is why I don't know, and why I ask 19:47:40 well I can't help you, I have no clue why, I just know it is the case 19:48:29 I can help everyone! 19:57:59 -!- augur has joined. 20:05:09 Ah yes, things like FOOF. Explodes on contact with water ice at about -180 degC... 20:05:51 i guess it is rather inert because noble gases have zero valence electrons, at not quite inert because valence electrons are only a first approximation to how an atom can react... 20:05:59 *and not quite 20:07:43 also, explodes Pentium processors 20:08:08 ah 20:08:11 dire straits 20:08:21 * oerjan isn't a chemist either but he _did_ ace his chemistry exam back in '89. standard vague recall disclaimers apply. 20:08:31 89!? 20:08:44 i was 1 y old then 20:08:45 :F 20:08:50 oerjan isn't 17?! 20:08:52 * oerjan waves his cane at nooga 20:09:00 I was 3, but I also aced my chemistry exam. 20:09:03 alise: i predict he could be 30+ 20:09:12 nooga: the wrong end of 30+ :P 20:09:19 but still 30+ 20:09:21 ;D 20:10:55 I need a machine that if you feed paper in, it will fold them, and after receiving a certain number of pages (configurable), it will place them in a window envelope. 20:11:32 you probably can buy one from xerox or something :D 20:12:59 Ah yes, things like FOOF. Explodes on contact with water ice at about -180 degC... <-- cool, now tip the mythbusters about this 20:14:08 * oerjan recalls fluorine and oxygen are the two most electronegative elements, so no surprise really 20:14:59 They were doing it by email and webpages and Windows Media, and PDF files even, so I offered to do it entirely using TeX instead, so that is what I am doing. 20:15:25 (O, and I am also using METAFONT to create the name cards) 20:16:33 What should be the position of the address on the page so that it will appear in the window envelope? 20:18:07 If the output tray of the printer is arranged so that it drops the pages directly into the other machine, then you would have to do nothing other than put stamps and put it in the mailbox! 20:21:52 woenoenoanoanoen 20:23:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:25:40 Is there a simple way of interchanging columns in a file? 20:26:38 Probably with Awk. 20:30:01 You look upon a man unacquainted with Awk. 20:30:40 -!- wareya_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:49 well basically you have to look awkward. 20:31:23 Phantom_Hoover: 20:31:23 -!- wareya has joined. 20:31:34 ehird@dinky:~$ (echo 1 2 3; echo 4 5 6) | awk '{ print $2, $1, $3 }' 20:31:34 2 1 3 20:31:34 5 4 6 20:32:17 And now it is a matter of working out the Sexyloop rule table symmetries... 20:32:25 Oh god, the source is Java. 20:32:38 Do you need symmetries if you do a dumb translation? 20:32:38 how would you biuld an interpreter that gets program written as quite entangled and forked, looped curve ? 20:32:47 *build 20:32:56 alise, yes. 20:33:18 Because I don't know exactly how their format works. 20:34:57 nooga: properly. 20:35:17 ;f 20:35:37 I'll assume it uses the same symmetries as Evoloop. 20:41:26 ;f 20:42:04 Is there a program for creating road maps with TeX? 20:42:08 alise, the columns aren't space-separated. 20:43:20 Basically, I want abcdef -> e,a,b,c,d,f 20:43:44 Along with a couple of substitutions, but those I can do myself. 20:46:11 Phantom_Hoover: you can do that too 20:46:32 Phantom_Hoover: always six fields? 20:47:02 fis@iris:~$ (echo 123456; echo abcdef) | awk -F '' '{print $5","$1","$2","$3","$4","$6;}' 20:47:04 Yep. 20:47:05 5,1,2,3,4,6 20:47:08 e,a,b,c,d,f 20:47:44 Assuming you actually wanted those commas in. 20:47:47 ehird@dinky:~$ echo abcdef | sed -E 's/(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)/\5\1\2\3\4\6/' 20:47:49 But yes, that works too. 20:47:59 Um, with commas in. 20:48:03 fizzie, substituting A for 10 and B for 11 would be nice as well... 20:48:10 Phantom_Hoover: I'M ON IT 20:48:26 The sed expression looks like a six-breasted thing, though. 20:48:51 Phantom_Hoover: 20:48:52 ehird@dinky:~$ echo AbcdeB | sed -E 's/(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)/\5,\1,\2,\3,\4,\6/; s/A/10/g; s/B/11/g' 20:48:52 e,10,b,c,d,11 20:53:17 fizzie: How much does Minecraft cost? 20:53:36 alise: You can buy it for 9.95 EUR during this alpha-test, and they'll say it goes up to 20 EUR later. 20:53:41 As much as it costs to torrent? 20:53:49 Unless you think it's worth paying for. 20:53:56 Phantom_Hoover: It's server-based. 20:53:58 Hurrr. 20:54:01 (Well, partly.) 20:54:07 Damn them! 20:54:15 Damn them for creating a multiplayer game!!1213134853 20:54:23 INDEED! 20:54:35 Also, perl -ne 'chomp; $_ = join(",", split //); s/([AB])/"1".chr(ord($1)-17)/eg; print; print "\n";' is obviously far preferable and cleaner than the simple sed expression. 20:54:36 fizzie: My brain must be broken; when I saw Google spit out £8.58 my first thought was "wow, that's a lot". 20:54:36 Who wants to play with OTHER PEOPLE? 20:56:07 xkcd today: slightly amusing? 20:56:45 Nope. 20:56:52 I'm not sure whether the multiplayer servers (at the moment) actually check for account validity, just the servers the launcher uses to download the actual game bits from. But the official multiplayer servers probably will at some point. 20:57:12 I think Hawking may have a slight problem with cinemas. 20:57:26 There's something like a dozen third-party servers, but I'm not sure if those support the current Alpha client or just the old "Classic" one. 20:57:41 (I've just been playing with myself.) 20:58:03 The two mini-comics in http://xkcd.com/798/ are amusing. 20:58:14 The use of phi for both properties is confusing and annoying. 20:58:21 `addquote (I've just been playing with myself.) 20:58:24 Nothing is too low-brow for HackEgo. 20:58:33 fizzie: Meh! 20:58:38 230| (I've just been playing with myself.) 20:59:17 In the end I did buy it, anyway. 20:59:33 BUT WHERE IS YOUR MONEY NOW 21:00:44 fungot, are you better or worse than Mezzacotta? 21:00:45 Phantom_Hoover: the main practical upshot of this manual. the following parts, written in c, or where commands intended to be less than a label, to select every second bit of the format created by the compiler or optimizer thinks that such a stack existed, because it's inside the main control-flow command in other programming languages. 21:00:55 ^style 21:00:55 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic* irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 21:01:04 ^style pa 21:01:05 Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) 21:01:22 fungot, I hope this is as cool as I think it is. 21:01:22 Phantom_Hoover: no mess and fresh juice anytime! 21:01:45 fungot, but I like mess! And I like fresh juice... 21:01:45 Phantom_Hoover: i didn't know you could even do that. 21:02:12 fungot: WHAT ABOUT THE MESS OF FRESH JUICES 21:02:13 alise: gentlemen. i never thought i'd see the day. hail ikthor! you have a gamer card with us? 21:02:20 most of it is just verbatim 21:02:55 It is a bit verbatimy, yes. I think I should've used a lower maximum n-gram order, it was a pretty small data set. 21:03:06 fungot: Can't you, you know, jazz it up a bit? 21:03:07 fizzie: my parents are coming over tonight. i don't know if i can be friends with a zombie lover. you will take in scenic vistas, within view of majestic caribou... hey! maybe we could trade off, you could race, then me... 21:03:48 ^join ##gameoflife 21:03:59 Bah! 21:04:31 It is sort of multi-channel-capable; but is that really a place that'd appreciate such a noisy bot? 21:04:55 Yes! 21:05:05 ##gameoflife so sold out when it changed name >__> 21:05:07 I don't believe you! 21:05:30 DON'T BELIEVE HIM 21:05:33 alise: i _vaguely_ recall it was my fault. despite me never being there :D 21:05:43 PHANTOM_HOOVER IS THE CRIMINAL 21:06:17 oerjan suggested it! 21:06:31 Phantom_Hoover: Any objections to me moving it back? 'cuz the old name is SO more awesome :P 21:06:36 or did i. 21:07:20 Given the only person in it is Ilari, it makes no difference. 21:11:32 so what's game of life in finnish, anyway. 21:11:54 Life-peli 21:12:14 Which is a bit boring. ("peli" is just generically "game".) 21:15:47 -!- cheater99 has changed nick to cheater100. 21:18:55 "Thanks, Elliot." --Robert Nemiroff, editor of Astronomy Picture of the Day, in response to an email where the only statement of my name was in the From field, spelled correctly. 21:18:57 EEK, HE LEVELED UP 21:19:00 WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 21:22:35 wtf http://i.imgur.com/Wqqxv.jpg 21:23:14 xD 21:28:43 There is a Wikipedia article called "Libertarianism (metaphysics)". 21:30:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:33:15 The free market controls MY gravity. 21:34:10 Gregor: Hi, I'm 1000g. I'm currently taking over 1g. 21:34:17 Have fun. 21:34:36 I wonder what happens if you mix hydrazine with fluorine? Or if that doesn't do anything interesting, why not mix it with caesium instead 21:34:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 21:35:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:35:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 21:37:29 I had an idea of a context making computer game, with topics you have to use, the topics are the titles of two Wikipedia pages selected at random. 21:37:42 (Using the [[Special:Random]] function) 21:41:03 how would that work 21:41:41 a computer cannot actually _understand_ the topics... 21:41:58 Phantom_Hoover: I HOPE YOU'RE READING THIS 21:42:10 No... the judge posts the topics and tells the people to make a game with this, and then the judge tells how closely it matches the topic 21:42:24 *contest, surely, not context. 21:42:32 zzo38: oh... what alise said 21:42:47 Yes, I do mean "contest" 21:44:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lerner and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpang_Pulai_Interchange 21:44:29 Phantom_Hoover: I HOPE YOU'RE READING MY BEAUTIFUL HATE POETRY 21:44:35 i see some problems there :D 21:44:59 Phantom_Hoover: David Lerner is driving on the Simpang Pulai Interchange. But the Malaysian government don't want him there! 21:45:07 Drive and shoot the enemy cars while avoiding the donkeys. 21:45:13 alise: wait David Lerner looks like a hate poet... 21:46:01 Pretty sure Phantom_Hoover's client is lagged to hell, but I was referring to this in ##gameoflife: http://pastie.org/1189862.txt?key=vgenivuit5vq7guwwqoxa 21:46:08 (He is busy pasting Paradise Lost into #b3s23.) 21:46:28 O_o 21:46:29 It is the greatest work of poetry. 21:46:40 And the even better work of HATE POETRY. 21:47:35 hm 21:47:36 guys 21:47:54 alise: i think the game should involve orangutans too 21:48:25 i'm studying something called "Informatyka" which would directly translate to "Informatics" 21:48:39 oerjan: xD 21:48:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:48:41 "the literary world 21:48:43 sucks dead dog dick" -- David Lerner, "Mein Kampf" 21:48:45 "I want people to hear my poetry and 21:48:47 get headaches 21:48:49 I want people to hear my poetry and 21:48:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:48:51 vomit" 21:48:53 nooga: wat 21:48:55 should i write "Computer Science" in my english CV? 21:49:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:49:10 instead of "Informatics"? 21:49:49 is the subject computer science? 21:50:04 Informatics (academic field), a broad academic field encompassing information science, information technology, algorithms, and social science 21:50:04 Computer science, the study of complex systems, information and computation using applied mathematics, electrical engineering and software engineering techniques. 21:50:04 Information science, the study of the processing, management, and retrieval of information 21:50:08 so informatics is a sort of supersubject... 21:50:17 nooga: what you've primarily been studying is CS, right? 21:50:24 if so, i'd write Computer Science 21:50:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatics_(academic_field) ;; wut 21:50:48 CS is called Informatyka in Polish 21:51:21 nooga: put CS on 21:51:23 like Matematyka -> Mathematics 21:51:39 doing a literal word-by-word translation is silly, so if informatyka means CS, then write Computer Science. 21:51:56 but what is Informatics then? 21:52:31 some crazy thing 21:52:40 some supersubject of CS that probably involves very little CS 21:52:46 about... systems and information 21:52:47 definitely not CS :P 21:53:00 uhm 21:53:08 stupid language 21:53:15 nooga: just say computer science. 21:54:29 uhm 21:55:09 nooga: ? 21:55:53 computer science sounds cheesy 21:55:55 like 21:56:09 a science of repairing computers 21:56:14 nooga: dude, it's the name of the subject. 21:56:16 it's what we say. 21:56:24 nobody knows what the hell informatics means :P 21:56:41 nooga: "computing science" has gained a little bit of traction but nothing even nearly serious enough for any CV-reader not to think of it as a stupid error 21:56:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science :P 21:56:57 okay 21:58:36 alise, if you can get at this somehow, I recommend this: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00893a004 it's just absurd. 21:58:47 (university proxy, but result is water marked...) 21:58:51 Vorpal: yes, you looked up the blog post like me :P 21:58:54 and found the reference to that 21:58:59 alise, indeed 21:59:07 Purchase This Content 21:59:07 Choose from the following options: 21:59:07 $30.00 for 48 hours of access 21:59:09 what a great price! 21:59:09 alise, and I managed to use university proxy to extract that paper 21:59:22 £18.98 for *two days* of access to a research paper 21:59:31 it's so cheap it gives me heartburn. 21:59:40 alise, ouch, I wonder what they pay for the subscription.... 21:59:44 since it is campus wide 21:59:46 Vorpal: £lots/year 21:59:51 in technical units. 21:59:57 alise, yeah... 22:00:09 http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=The+Chemical+Properties+of+Dioxygen+Difluoride#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=The+Chemical+Properties+of+Dioxygen+Difluoride+filetype%3Apdf&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=7eab77b8d2d38738 22:00:14 "[PDF] Thermodynamic Properties of Dioxygen Difluoride (OZF2) and ..." 22:00:17 Not the same, Google. 22:00:18 Not the same. 22:00:47 Nope, can't find it. 22:01:15 Vorpal: How many hail Marys would I have to do to get your PDF copy? What if I used Tipp-Ex on my screen to remove your watermark? WHAT THEN 22:01:31 alise, hm... 22:01:45 alise, it is scanned and extremely blurry 22:01:48 hard to read in fact 22:02:47 alise, and rather boringly written 22:03:08 alise, in fact, you have to be a chemist to understand that it means what the blog post described 22:03:55 alise, and sharing it with you is not worth the trouble if it comes to attention. It just isn't 22:05:37 Re "how much it costs", it might be something comparable to ACM Digital Library, which for the "academic institution" class has list prices for "tier 1/2/3/4/5" of 2,000/13421/14634/15322/16021 USD/year. (I can't quite find out what the different tiers actually mean, though.) 22:05:52 Maaaan 22:05:53 Vorpal, what blog post? 22:05:54 I am SO weird looking. 22:07:16 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 22:08:41 Phantom_Hoover: http://pastie.org/1189862.txt?key=vgenivuit5vq7guwwqoxa 22:09:08 Read it. 22:09:13 Phantom_Hoover: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php 22:09:15 is the blog post 22:09:18 Was singularly underwhelmend. 22:09:22 Phantom_Hoover: READ IT BUT DID NOT VERBALLY APPRECIATE MY POETIC TALENT 22:09:50 ;_; twatbasket is already on urban dictionary 22:09:55 That was my primary innovation! 22:16:40 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:24:15 alise: 4Oâ‚‚Fâ‚‚ + Hâ‚‚S +2HF + 4Oâ‚‚ + SF₆ + 432.9 kcal 22:24:30 if units(1) is correct that is fucking 1.8124657 MJ 22:25:31 also "contradistinction" is a nice word 22:25:57 i recall something about the cal unit being ambiguous 22:26:55 one of the definitions being 1000 times the other 22:27:52 heh 22:28:03 oerjan, it is however likely in this case to be correct 22:28:03 Yes, but I don't think it's unambiguous if you have the k in there. 22:28:09 about 4.2 and 4200 joules respectively, says wikipedia 22:29:20 "In contact with a Pt sheet covered with PtF4, dioxygen difluoride exploded at 160°K." 22:29:21 hm probably not, 4.2 gives about what Vorpal said 22:29:42 I win a lot of points at this Bumping Pachinko game 22:29:42 oerjan: Calories are a dietary unit being 1 kcal. 22:29:47 You won't see them in science. 22:30:12 "In scientific contexts, the name "calorie" refers to the gram calorie, and this unit has the symbol cal. Metric prefixes are used with this name and symbol, so that the kilogram calorie is known as the "kilocalorie" and has the symbol kcal." -- says the 'pedia too. 22:30:46 I don't think you'll ever really see the k prefix with the larger sort of Cal. 22:31:58 I thought calories were superseded by Joules/ 22:32:46 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/06/11/things_i_wont_work_with_thioacetone.php 22:32:57 Phantom_Hoover, yes 22:33:00 but the paper is old 22:33:07 1962 22:33:21 * oerjan vaguely recalls a similar article about methyl mercury 22:33:33 oerjan, sounds about as absurd 22:34:44 *dimethyl mercury 22:36:16 Thioacetone is CH3CSCH3, presumably/ 22:37:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:37:20 hm he only mentions it in passing on that site 22:38:07 "When added to Dry Ice, dioxygen difluoride did not react and was only absorbed by the solid. Addition of acetone to this mixture resulted in sparking accompanied by an explosion." 22:38:09 heh 22:38:15 "Dimethyl mercury I will not get within yards of, for very well-founded reasons." 22:38:25 ah 22:38:55 -!- nooga has joined. 22:39:31 Dimethyl mercury is just CH3HgCH3. Chemistry is terrifying... 22:39:56 Thioacetone sounds like something related to thiotimoline. 22:40:09 Both of those compounds are only a few atoms away from propane. 22:40:24 fizzie, "thio-" is sulphur-related IIRC. 22:41:04 As with thiols, which are alcohols with sulphur rather than oxygen stuck on. 22:44:10 can you make vodka using them? 22:45:20 No. 22:46:50 Thioethanol looks like it's toxic. 22:48:05 ethanol is also toxic 22:49:37 wait those 432.9 kcal are for a _single_ set of molecules? 22:52:24 oerjan: yes 22:52:30 oerjan: except 22:52:32 iirc there was some detail 22:52:41 > 1812465.7 / 3600000 22:52:41 0.5034626944444445 22:52:47 oerjan: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148591 22:52:48 see fisrt reply 22:52:52 about 1/2 kWh ... 22:53:00 that's actually per mol 22:53:04 *first 22:53:14 so not that bad :D 22:53:26 ah 22:54:12 i guess per molecule that would be more than a nuclear bomb... 22:56:42 "They offer it in 100g, 500g, and 1 kilo amounts, which is interesting, because I don't think a kilo of dioxygen difluoride has ever existed." :D 23:02:14 oerjan, not at once at least 23:02:20 oerjan, I do think it might have existed in total 23:02:36 mol and rad: my most hated units. 23:02:46 considering how many fucked up experiments that paper he referred to did 23:03:22 Phantom_Hoover, rad? That's nothing. sr is way worse 23:03:24 and degrees 23:03:26 that is also bad 23:03:31 at least radians make sense 23:03:35 unlike degrees 23:03:38 Vorpal, I'm talking about the units. 23:03:42 Not the things. 23:03:53 Phantom_Hoover, okay but sr is a crazy unit 23:03:54 agree? 23:03:57 sr? 23:04:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steradian 23:04:14 mol and rad are just unitlessness masquerading otherwise. 23:04:32 Steradians don't look too crazy. 23:04:33 Dimethyl mercury is quite frightening stuff. Highly toxic. Absorbs through skin. Penetrates latex gloves... 23:05:28 Phantom_Hoover, dimensionless too 23:05:37 Vorpal, oh, I thought you meant the concept. 23:05:43 Phantom_Hoover, ah 23:05:50 Phantom_Hoover, well that too :P 23:06:22 Vorpal, those 433kcal were for one specific reaction. 23:06:26 *oerjan 23:06:46 hm? 23:07:46 Stuff that explodes on contact with water ice in cryogenic temperatures is sure nice stuff... 23:08:18 Ilari, indeed 23:08:36 Ilari, now I want someone to try FOOF and cesium 23:08:50 I want to watch the resulting youtube video 23:09:18 FOOF and surfur compounds would probably be good enough... 23:09:54 Ilari, true 23:10:07 Ilari, but I wonder if FOOF and cesium would be worse or not 23:10:18 The 433kcal figure was for sulphur compounds, FWIW. 23:10:32 Phantom_Hoover, yes 23:10:52 well... 432.9 23:10:57 HS, specifically. 23:11:12 Also, HF as product... Fun. 23:11:25 sulphur is also electronegative, isn't it, it's just below oxygen in the table 23:11:48 mol and rad: my most hated units. ;; radians are sweet 23:11:55 A calorie is 4.2 joules. 23:11:55 so clearly it's not just about distance on that scale 23:11:56 but yeah, unitless 23:12:18 Effing Americans and your stubborn refusal to accept sane measurements for everything. 23:12:28 Phantom_Hoover: what, calories or joules? 23:12:36 Calories, obviously. 23:12:37 joules are clearly superior by virtue of SI 23:12:56 Phantom_Hoover: do you also propose that americans measure people in feet and inches, roads in miles, but everything else in metric? 23:13:03 our system is *fucked up* 23:13:22 I would want to see page that documented FFU electrical units (thankfully, they were probably just too crazy and died). 23:13:34 alise, that kcal figure was for *a scientific measurement*. 23:13:39 There's no excuse for that. 23:13:47 Phantom_Hoover: err, i was supporting joules 23:13:50 also, it's from the 60s 23:13:52 there's your excuse 23:13:58 > 433 * 4.2 23:14:00 1818.6000000000001 23:14:07 Ah yeah... Nutrion is not a science (at least judging from behaviour of "scientists" of that field). 23:14:08 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 23:15:29 > (433 * 4.2) * 6 * (10^23) 23:15:30 1.09116e27 23:16:06 So we get on the order of 10^30 joules of energy per *mole* of HS and FOOF reacting. 23:16:18 No, wait. 23:16:32 > ((433 * 4.2) * 6 * (10^23)) / 4 23:16:33 2.7279e26 23:16:37 Haha... The very first sentence of this article (happens to be about nutrion) is completely wrong... 23:16:45 3*10^29 joules. 23:16:57 Phantom_Hoover_: sheesh read the corrections above 23:16:59 That's way too high... 23:17:15 the 433 kcal _is_ for moles 23:17:45 For 1 mole of FOOF or for 4 moles of FOOF reacting with H2S? 23:17:56 oerjan, ahhh. 23:18:05 * oerjan guesses the latter 23:19:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:19:05 Wow, and when the first sentence is completely wrong, one might think that the rest of article is full of misinformation. Indeed it is... 23:20:47 ?? 23:20:53 whaarticle/. 23:21:01 1 mole of FOOF is 70g... So 4 moles would be 280g. 23:21:18 Just one I ran across... 23:21:19 tsar bomba was about 210000 TJ, says wp 23:22:22 2.1*10^17 joules 23:22:30 Well, there's section about smoking... That's probably the only one that's not completely wrong... 23:23:32 so way too high indeed 23:24:02 And as scale, Sun emits about 4 * 10^26 joules of energy per second... 23:24:55 so basically if the numbers had been right we'd have been toast after that experiment 23:26:02 Well, there's section about smoking... That's probably the only one that's not completely wrong... <-- smooking what? 23:26:09 I just had a horrible mental image 23:26:14 pigs fly and the hell is frozen, i applied for a job of C# programmer 23:26:20 Tobacco... 23:26:24 a guy smooking a cigar with FOOF 23:26:30 that's a horrible mental picture 23:26:32 FOOF would be somewhere in the region of... 80 gfm? 23:26:46 what's FOOF? 23:27:01 Dioxygen difluoride. 23:27:08 nooga, F_2O_2 23:27:10 Really really reactive compound. 23:27:40 nooga: Explodes on contact with water in cryogenic temperatures... 23:27:51 So 4 mol of it would have a mass of 320g. 23:27:56 (of course, water is ice in that temperatures). 23:28:03 > 433 / 320 23:28:04 1.353125 23:28:04 Its about 70g/mol... So 280g... 23:28:24 > 433 / 280 23:28:26 1.5464285714285715 23:28:43 > (433 / 280) * 4.2 23:28:44 6.495 23:28:57 6.4 kJ/g 23:29:03 *6.5 23:29:12 That's... pretty damn high. 23:29:53 Let's see, the specific heat capacity of water is 4.18kJ/kg/°C 23:30:52 Wait, there's the HS to account for. 23:31:15 > (433 / (280 + 32 + 1)) * 4.2 23:31:16 5.810223642172525 23:31:40 Isn't it H2S? 23:31:55 Wouldn't that be dihydrogen sulphide? 23:31:58 I don't know. 23:32:15 > (433 / (280 + 32 + 2)) * 4.2 23:32:16 5.79171974522293 23:32:25 Sulfur is group 16, so it tends to form two bonds... Hydrogen tends to form one... 23:32:41 OK, so it's 5.8kJ/g 23:32:56 IIRC, that's more than TNT. 23:34:02 > 418 / 5.8 23:34:04 72.06896551724138 23:34:11 Add to that kinetics and thermodynamics that tend to favor highly rapid reaction... 23:34:33 From this I conclude that 72g of the reactants will boil a litre of water at 0°C. 23:35:27 Just heat to 100 degC... Boiling water takes LOTS of energy... 23:35:39 so smoking FOOF in a cigarette would do nothing 23:35:56 since cigarettes burn in ca 700 Celcius degs 23:36:12 IIRC, its on order of 2000kJ/kg to boil water... 23:36:29 Argh, latent heat of vapourisation... 23:36:59 * Phantom_Hoover_ feels stupid. 23:37:04 And FOOF does something nasty in way below zero celsius or so... 23:38:31 And wonder what the compounds with six oxygens and two fluorines are like... :-) 23:39:57 Yeah, the reactants should do other stuff... 23:41:02 I wouldn't be surprised if FOOF and LOx mixed together would explode before LOx boiled off... 23:42:35 drop sodium in a toilet 23:42:41 for profit 23:42:45 Been done. Repeatedly. 23:44:12 my grandpa was charged for sabotage by soviets when he did this on his university 23:44:59 * Phantom_Hoover_ → sleep 23:46:29 so smoking FOOF in a cigarette would do nothing 23:46:29 since cigarettes burn in ca 700 Celcius degs 23:46:30 err 23:46:40 nooga, probably very toxic 23:46:41 and 23:46:49 it would explode before that 23:46:50 and 23:46:55 cigarettes are already very toxic 23:47:01 wait 23:47:01 it would evaporate and/or explode before that 23:47:19 nooga, not in the "kills you dead right now" kind of way 23:47:22 i thought FOOF explodes only in contact with water in v. low temperatures 23:47:30 -!- olsner has joined. 23:47:35 nooga, it explodes in contact with about everything 23:47:42 AWESOME 23:47:50 way better than H-bomb 23:47:53 nooga, and it isn't stable at higher temperatures 23:48:07 so that is why only low temperatures are discussed 23:48:31 beh 23:49:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:51:27 There are some other compounds that are erm... Somewhat unstable in that "Things I won't work with" category. 23:51:55 The things that don't even need you to look at them wrong to explode... 23:53:05 hmm, but chemical reactions seem pretty lame anyway 23:53:13 at least compared to the nucular ones 23:53:46 There are three kinds of exploding compounds: One that require proper ignition, things that explode if you look at them wrong and things that explode even if you don't look at them wrong... 23:58:03 -!- Kordalien has joined.