< 1285459217 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or brought in by the SCP foundation. < 1285459218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: we're not < 1285459221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1285459225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about something completely different < 1285459244 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285459255 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This _has_ to be one of my practice recordins < 1285459258 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*recordings < 1285459270 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO THE PAUSE BUTTON IS BROKEN < 1285459279 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION twitches
< 1285459306 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I have a superpower < 1285459310 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to take a long time to recover from that. < 1285459327 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last half minute or so isn't that bad < 1285459358 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And neither is the first 23 seconds or so < 1285459362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: Unfortunately, no human being can wait until then. < 1285459372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total skeletal collapse occurs a few seconds beforehand. < 1285459376 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can listen to it just fine < 1285459376 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually reached up to 1.35. < 1285459376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285459387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I recorded it :P < 1285459393 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, to never ever let anyone hear it. < 1285459424 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be the microphone..; < 1285459429 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm going to try for another 20 seconds. AT ONCE. < 1285459449 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio, if all 20 seconds don't include singing, it's cheating < 1285459455 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAa < 1285459461 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS ALL SINGING < 1285459473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: filebin.ca < 1285459476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what you must do. < 1285459482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it if two other people do :P < 1285459488 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, counting me? < 1285459489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What, sing opera? < 1285459491 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: No. < 1285459496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know any opera to sing. < 1285459496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sing something, record it, upload it. < 1285459498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be short. < 1285459505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tell me how to get Ubuntu to recognise my microphone. < 1285459515 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285459524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is it in arecord -L? < 1285459532 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285459534 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wamanuz, http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/paint_it_black_karaoke.ogg < 1285459539 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to go deaf < 1285459547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: So now you're just being evil then :P < 1285459552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see link in /msg < 1285459555 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I included a warning < 1285459564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't know. < 1285459569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1285459570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1285459577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I record with the default input, it just has stuff that sounds like background noise. < 1285459577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`arecord -L < 1285459581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like real background noise. < 1285459586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if I recorded it and said nothing. < 1285459593 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel strangely desensitised by now... < 1285459599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, *prod* < 1285459611 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1285459676 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I at least pronounce Majere correctly? < 1285459683 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1285459688 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-139.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1285459694 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's clear I've gone Majere" < 1285459695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: DON'T DO IT < 1285459704 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1285459707 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo, noöne is going to listen to it *again*. < 1285459728 0 :FIQ!~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq JOIN :#esoteric < 1285459735 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've listened to it several times already < 1285459747 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT YOU < 1285459748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeGo: You're obviously desensitized by being you. < 1285459759 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reached the end! < 1285459763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he may have lost the ability to have taste in music. < 1285459768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now, to kill myself. < 1285459791 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio, without pausing? < 1285459807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been listening to Final Fantasy music instead of this madness. < 1285459810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vast improvement. < 1285459812 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, when did I say that. < 1285459823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*smack* < 1285459850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except OH GOD I HAVE THE FFX2 SOUNDTRACK < 1285459852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MAKE IT STOP < 1285459854 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now I get it. < 1285459862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PAIN AND AGONY AND WHY IS YUNAS THEME UPBEAT < 1285459871 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285459872 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is my karaoke better?? < 1285459884 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, listen to SeGo singing. It makes *everything* good by comparison. < 1285459901 0 :SeGo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1285459914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like miraculin! < 1285459934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio: I don't think you realise the scope of the tone change here. < 1285459950 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, probably. < 1285459976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcSPrk2LfNM <- Yuna's Theme from FFX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjYbJ6u05yQ <- Yuna's Theme from FFX-2. < 1285459979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions? < 1285460016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-youtube.php <- Gregor's Theme from this summer or something :P < 1285460023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly link ... < 1285460034 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION asked a friend to listen to that. HE THOUGHT IT WAS ME SINGING
< 1285460040 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM MORTALLY OFFENDED < 1285460066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1285460114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION strongly hates FFX-2. And hates the music more.
< 1285460127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hate the concept. < 1285460136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's FFXI? No, it's FFX ... part two. < 1285460151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You played FFX, right? < 1285460157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played any FF since 8. < 1285460171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sit down and play FFX now. < 1285460173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAO < 1285460196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and maybe play FFXII simultaneously; very little interaction required. < 1285460205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the relevant consoles. < 1285460211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/consoles/console/ < 1285460213 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285460215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a PS-2. NAO < 1285460224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought XII was PS3 < 1285460229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's XIII. < 1285460232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I also dislike. < 1285460237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, wow < 1285460249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an Ubuntu-using friend-of-a-friend is trying to prove that he knows more about computers than me < 1285460255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XII sucked ass at gameplay, but had a decent story. < 1285460265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It more *lacked* gameplay. < 1285460270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I quote (sec) < 1285460274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You programmed the PCs. < 1285460297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unless he formatted the whole drive. partitioning the drive into 3 sections, 60gb, 60 gband 32gb (NTFS, ext4 and ext4 respectively), doing that requires about 50% more knowledge than a plain install" < 1285460304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand then... Let them do all combat automatically. < 1285460313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is correct: someone is trying to out-nerd me with (probably graphical) PARTITIONING < 1285460323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then they made it encourage grinding. < 1285460331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short: play another game while playing it. < 1285460339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Facepalm. < 1285460370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i've told him to come in here to see if he can understand even half a word of it < 1285460374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so talk technical guys! < 1285460380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does PSOX count? < 1285460381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i quote some more: "i'm sure he just wants to seem big by using multiple technical words < 1285460384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*words" < 1285460389 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285460396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1285460411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyways. FFX-2. Let's take a somewhat sad game, and make a spin-off. Wherein the female characters become the *only* playable characters, and they dress like strippers. < 1285460426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do they at least strip? < 1285460436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, but they change clothes in combat. < 1285460449 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is he coming? < 1285460452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he can't even program lol < 1285460453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is there any nudity in it? < 1285460454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio: dunno < 1285460457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have to see < 1285460461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought Wamanuz was him < 1285460462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, and did I mention that they're somehow pop music sensations? Only 5 years after a very very strong religious opposition to ALL TECHNOLOGY ended? < 1285460466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1285460474 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone, switch to Turing machines1 < 1285460482 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285460503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a C-to-TM compiler yet? < 1285460504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even figure out what to do with a damaged HD < 1285460509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than ask in here... < 1285460511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vonlebio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcSPrk2LfNM <- Yuna's Theme from FFX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjYbJ6u05yQ <- Yuna's Theme from FFX-2. <-- nice music (at least the first one, haven't got around to the second yet) < 1285460512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1285460515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just dissed double booting < 1285460516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1285460519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no... merey installing 3 os's on a single hard drive hence the partitioning" < 1285460524 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, GET HIM IN HERE NOW < 1285460524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FFX had very good music. It's a Final Fantasy game. < 1285460526 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-139.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1285460529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1285460529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....? < 1285460531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285460534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does he think dual-booting is? < 1285460534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-booting is "a waste of cpu space and electrons" or -- i forget exactly what he said there, but -- < 1285460537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet triple-booting < 1285460539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THE SHIT < 1285460552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With emphasis on "shit" < 1285460553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to be honest... intelligence isnt just how much you know... it is how you use it, and he isnt using it sociably, thats for sure" < 1285460573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : double-booting is "a waste of cpu space and electrons" or -- i forget exactly what he said there, but -- <-- of "CPU space"? < 1285460574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1285460580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind i haven't actually talked to him < 1285460582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk space maybe < 1285460584 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, quick! Play Sgeo singing at him! < 1285460585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just insulted my intelligence when someone else brought me up < 1285460586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cpu space? < 1285460588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i retaliated < 1285460602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i dunno if he said "space" < 1285460604 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll reduce him to a gibbering wreck! < 1285460609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attacks on my intelligence *really* fucking irritate me. < 1285460621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heck, you could just do a comparison of the opening CGs to get a full grasp of the astounding difference between the games. < 1285460646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ? < 1285460661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, opening... Cutscenes. That. < 1285460666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285460681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay the second one is shitty for a game. < 1285460690 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, IS HE HERE YET < 1285460690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in the ff genre < 1285460693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do we know we're not all delusional? < 1285460702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we incorrectly think we are capable and intelligent? < 1285460703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonlebio: he's not coming, i don't think < 1285460706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Double-booting" is presumably booting one OS on one core, and one OS on the other core ... simultaneously. < 1285460713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: er i meant dual-booting < 1285460721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm trying to explain his "logic" :P < 1285460722 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, because noöne would delude themselves into thinking that your karaoke exists. < 1285460742 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must exist objectively. < 1285460798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, different composers I presume? < 1285460815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I can't imagine that whoever made the first one would sink so low as to do the second one < 1285460816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, FFX was mostly Nobuou Uematsu. FFX-2 was some J-pop artist. < 1285460845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the second one is a total disaster for a fantasy game < 1285460894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvIp4tRIUJI FFX intro, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjldKQx3Kag FFX-2 intro. < 1285460934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if his singing could be used as a WMD
< 1285460953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1285460960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo|SomeonesAtM < 1285460973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFX-2 *starts with a fucking pop concert*. < 1285460993 0 :Sgeo|SomeonesAtM!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1285461012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about the ffx game after that? < 1285461023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What FFX game after FFX-2? < 1285461037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? there isn't one? < 1285461049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that abortion of a game? < 1285461057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did they abort it? < 1285461058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1285461078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm using "abortion" as an insult, and a suggestion that they should have aborted it. < 1285461087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285461095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should do so post-term. With a sledgehammer. < 1285461208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whoever's responsible for the dressphere system should be executed. < 1285461225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dressphere? < 1285461250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the FFX-2 intro is unwatchable < 1285461275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It has a clothing-based combat system. Honest-to-God. < 1285461300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does that even mean? < 1285461313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You change clothing to change jobs. < 1285461318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I want that GPU used for FFX2 though. That is some realistic graphics. < 1285461321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh < 1285461380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and from what I can remember of the final fantasy series that pop concert is just _competely_ anachronistic < 1285461417 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y z -> x z $ y z < 1285461417 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1285461424 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr. < 1285461452 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \m n f x -> m (n f) x < 1285461452 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) < 1285461479 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \a b f -> f a b < 1285461479 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip . flip id < 1285461497 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \p -> p (\x y -> x) < 1285461497 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ const) < 1285461509 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEVER < 1285461516 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1285461662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1285461665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he pussied out < 1285461671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just being completely normal now he's actually face to face with me < 1285461685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retard + loss of indirection = nice person < 1285461765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh? < 1285461781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the aforementioned idiot < 1285461782 0 :Vonlebio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285461792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "unless he formatted the whole drive. partitioning the drive into 3 sections, 60gb, 60 gband 32gb (NTFS, ext4 and ext4 respectively), doing that requires about 50% more knowledge than a plain install" < 1285461793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, that is correct: someone is trying to out-nerd me with (probably graphical) PARTITIONING < 1285461794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with the CPU area? < 1285461796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and i quote some more: "i'm sure he just wants to seem big by using multiple technical words < 1285461799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : apparently he can't even program lol < 1285461803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow < 1285461805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, gband? < 1285461805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : he just dissed double booting < 1285461806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then < 1285461806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "no... merey installing 3 os's on a single hard drive hence the partitioning" < 1285461812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : double-booting is "a waste of cpu space and electrons" or -- i forget exactly what he said there, but -- < 1285461814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yet triple-booting < 1285461814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IS THE SHIT < 1285461816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "to be honest... intelligence isnt just how much you know... it is how you use it, and he isnt using it sociably, thats for sure" < 1285461819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1285461857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what the fuck is "gband" < 1285461963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gb and" < 1285461982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course all of this is because i'm ~zomg young~ < 1285461993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was 25 he would have just shut up and accepted it < 1285461998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 15 year olds are INHERENTLY LESS INTELLIGENT :) < 1285462308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and how old is he? < 1285462324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also you said face to face? You meant him in RL? < 1285462335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :face to face as in not through the friend of whom he is a friend < 1285462349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how old he is, only a few years older than me at most < 1285462650 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285462710 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285462782 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285462823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that dell btw, built in speakers are way better than that of my thinkpad. However, the headphone jack is *noisy* < 1285462836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for headphones my laptop beats it < 1285462855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course my desktop with SB Live 5.1 beats both easily < 1285462886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and mute remove the noise < 1285463067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see headphones are at 100 < 1285463073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing that helps < 1285463095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit noisy < 1285463235 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285463390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why haven't you resumed reading FS? < 1285463402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or résuméd it, for that matter? < 1285463427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking a break < 1285463466 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why haven't you accepted Cthulhu as your Lord and God Almighty? < 1285463608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because IPU < 1285463627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, IPU? < 1285463696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invisible pink-- < 1285463743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a True Believer, eh < 1285463782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped IPU for FSM < 1285463791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM does not have a contradiction inherent in the name itself < 1285463807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like there is no contradiction inherent in the letters G o d < 1285463821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, invisible pink what? < 1285463824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn < 1285463828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285463830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BBHH) < 1285463835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I dropped IPU for FSM < 1285463835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FSM does not have a contradiction inherent in the name itself < 1285463835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just like there is no contradiction inherent in the letters G o d < 1285463838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupidest fucking rationale ever < 1285463843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of these is to be ridiculous < 1285463858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the FSM is irritating, because its inventor seems to think he's the first to think of such a wacky idea, a fake god! < 1285463868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...he does? o.O < 1285463897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he seemed to be pleased with himself about it in the first letter. < 1285463909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, a pop concert merely existing isn't anachronistic for the *series*. < 1285463918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just that game. < 1285463953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, more like "that point in the timeline of the game". < 1285463965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION secretly replaces alise's IRC client next time he goes to sleep with MS Comic Chat, locked in comic mode
< 1285463967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would have not been an abuse of the timeline at the start of FFX's storyline. < 1285463972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an abuse of all taste. < 1285463982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm okay < 1285464016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to say that FFX also had, near the very start, some heavy metal. And it fit. < 1285464024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1285464030 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1285464057 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worship the invisible pink flying spaghetti goddess of the Old Ones, Discordia! < 1285464058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Firefox: When I click a tab, I do _not_ intend to close it < 1285464059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and the very end. It was also boss music. :D) < 1285464066 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discordia fhtagn! < 1285464112 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sounds like a bug. My copy doesn't put the close buttons on inactive tabs. < 1285464145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does mine < 1285464153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just thinks I clicked to close for some reason < 1285464174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to attempt to watch some SGU < 1285464196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to see what packages are taking up lots of disk space? < 1285464213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what distro? < 1285464227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 10.04 LTS < 1285464228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could list all packages with size presumably < 1285464230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sort it < 1285464234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fact, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GjvRAJaEc0 < 1285464251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, don't have any ubuntu system turned on atm, but should be possible with dpkg or such < 1285464307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: In fact, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GjvRAJaEc0 <-- which game? < 1285464328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFX < 1285464337 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: try dpkg -I < 1285464342 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you still have the archive < 1285464354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, was that the one with the good themes? < 1285464357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285464358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that *is* Nobuo Uematsu doing metal. < 1285464361 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size of the archive should correlate to the unpacked size < 1285464368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a lot higher 3D quality than the intro of it? < 1285464386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intro was done by the PS2 hardware; this is pre-rendered. < 1285464394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand the very start of the plot. < 1285464403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285464418 0 :Henoheno!~gm@121-74-67-237.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285464437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, you should totally play this game. It is by far my favorite Final Fantasy game. < 1285464439 0 :Henoheno!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1285464455 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1285464468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to watch some SGU
< 1285464483 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1285464490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I doubt I have the hardware for it < 1285464503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A PS2 is cheap. < 1285464506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and: spoony bard. You can't get better than that < 1285464511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is FFX. < 1285464517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm not going to get a PS2 < 1285464519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no < 1285464526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of good JRPGs for the PS2. < 1285464531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *lot*. < 1285464532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, besides I doubt it would be easy to find one around here < 1285464535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with ps2s < 1285464541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Should be. < 1285464542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides you could emulate (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no) < 1285464554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst case scenario, buy one new. < 1285464564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suspect it would be non-trivial to emulate < 1285464564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new ps2 costs like 3p :P < 1285464571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: near-impossible with current hardware < 1285464576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with that fancy emotion engine crap < 1285464576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1285464577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's $99 for literally brand-new. < 1285464582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so 3p < 1285464584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, emotion engine? < 1285464587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1285464593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_Engine < 1285464596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The PS2 had an absurd number of CPUs. < 1285464682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main CPU, two vector CPUs, a general-purpose GPU, two audio CPUs, and an IO CPU (the Playstation I CPU). < 1285464698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, to emulate a PS2 you need to emulate a PS1. < 1285464735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah. Sony is still manufacturing them. < 1285464739 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, (after reading link): how boring. For a split second after you said "emotion engine" I thought it was a CPU dedicated to calculating facial expressions or something XD < 1285464752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is the cpu that lets the computer feel < 1285464754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have no plans to stop. < 1285464759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1285464793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 years and counting. < 1285464814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Combined, the two channels of DRDRAM have a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 3.2 GB/s, about 33% more bandwidth than the internal data bus." < 1285464816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1285464820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point of THAT < 1285464865 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YA I KNOW RITE? < 1285464875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sony is on record as saying they will continue making the PS2 until it stops selling. Dear me. < 1285464890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why does it still sell? With the PS3 around I mean < 1285464920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has pretty most of the good games made from 2000 to, say, 2008. < 1285464927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pretty/ < 1285464933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pretty// < 1285464959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And there are still games being made for it... < 1285464968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, invalid: you must correct the first sed expression using the second. And now you have to sed your second expression to fix the first instead :P < 1285464971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And it *outsold the PS3* until 2009. < 1285464983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh < 1285465001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it was outselling the Wii for quite a while. < 1285465272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PS2: it prints money ™. < 1285465560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, yeah. Get yous a PS2. < 1285465602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nah < 1285465659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But you must play FFX. And FFXII. And Persona 3. Absolutely positively must. < 1285465663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is imperative. < 1285465680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now go make the best-selling console of all time sell a bit better! < 1285465722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nah < 1285465726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq, why does it still sell? With the PS3 around I mean < 1285465726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: night < 1285465727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cost of PS3 < 1285465730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS3 doesn't support PS1 games < 1285465733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's ugly :) < 1285465737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: s/PS1/PS2/ < 1285465742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, doesn't it? < 1285465745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah they dropped that recently didn't they < 1285465746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckface < 1285465749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fuckfaces < 1285465753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It still plays PS1 games. < 1285465756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1285465759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was software emulation from day 1. < 1285465764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it plays PS1 but not PS2? :D < 1285465779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They actually sell PS1 games on PSN. < 1285465791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *PSP* can play PS1 games as well. < 1285465820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My PS3 still has the PS2 hardware in it. < 1285465840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(made a point of getting a used one) < 1285466039 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1285466160 0 :pintassilgo!~teco@78.29.169.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285466302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one thing < 1285466311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wrt pre-rendered cutscene: < 1285466317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the warning to avoid that game < 1285466326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate pre-rendered cut scenes < 1285466344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference in quality is often jarring < 1285466364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really breaks suspension of disbelief < 1285466398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then you hate any game newer than '95. < 1285466400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is one thing that I can't stand in games it is pre-rendered high quality cut scenes, when the actual game has lower image quality < 1285466441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm what about n64, when was that? < 1285466463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the N64 didn't have the cartridge space for pre-rendered cut scenes. < 1285466465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda oot lacks pre-rendered cut scenes < 1285466469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1285466489 0 :pintassilgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1285466498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost all PS1, PS2, PS3, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, and Xbox 360 games have pre-rendered cutscenes. < 1285466510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about PC games? < 1285466519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285466523 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saints Row didn't have them, or at least, they were no higher quality than the game engine provided < 1285466524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, varies < 1285466529 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm pretty sure they were scripted < 1285466539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm sure ghost recon's cutscenes were just scripted < 1285466562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True; PC games can also opt for scripting cutscenes and have absolutely steller graphics. Better GPUs in general, and a need to deal with varying resolutions. < 1285466578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What would you think of a game that had *animated* cutscenes? < 1285466593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean? As in not a static image? < 1285466600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer non-static image yes < 1285466609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in an actual drawn animation. < 1285466623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1285466630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE NEVERHOOD WAS ENTIRELY CLAYMATION < 1285466630 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends on what the rest of the game looks like < 1285466632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCUSSION OVER < 1285466634 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm p cool with that < 1285466638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if 3D? then fuck it < 1285466641 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World of Goo has great cutscenes < 1285466641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anime. < 1285466644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THE ANIMATIONS, ALL THE BACKGROUNDS, ALL THE CHARACTERS < 1285466647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THE CUTSCENES < 1285466649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THE FUCKING GAME MENUS < 1285466651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(YES, ALL OF THEM) < 1285466655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot be beaten < 1285466661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, agreed < 1285466664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You should play Persona 3. < 1285466665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is consistent < 1285466670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the best JRPG. < 1285466679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as I said, the cut scenes *must* look like the rest of the game < 1285466694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Neverhood is the best JRPG, the best FPS, the best RTS, the best casual game, the best EVERYTHING < 1285466696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I will just abort the game at the first cut scene < 1285466710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stop it, you are denying yourself excellent games. < 1285466725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "The game *must* be made with sprites no better than what the SNES had" < 1285466733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I tried and I found that it is so extremely jarring it just puts me off it < 1285466736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "The game *must* have sequenced graphics" < 1285466738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is completely different < 1285466747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "The game *must* use an NES controller" < 1285466752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm asking for consistency < 1285466757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for limiting to SNES < 1285466770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the game itself has excellent graphics then so can the cut scenes < 1285466776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has to be consistent < 1285466812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, your attacks were just absurd :P < 1285466826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard not to be when you're being absurd. < 1285466834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I HATE GOOD-LOOKING CUTSCENES" < 1285466841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I will grant sometimes it's jarring < 1285466845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looking at *you*, FF7) < 1285466865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no I don't. I hate cutscenes of _different quality_ than the parts of the game that isn't cut scenes < 1285466869 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1285466875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very different from hating good quality cut scenes < 1285466901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at YouTube
< 1285466903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzHpCOPsVbo Cutscene (intro, Persona 3), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drs140-CIf8 Gameplay (no spoilers) < 1285466933 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon < 1285466964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, horrible music < 1285466991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You know what? You are not allowed to have opinions about games, you are a luddite. < 1285467005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what genre is it? < 1285467015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a stick and string. < 1285467017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy. < 1285467022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The game? JRPG. < 1285467033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with dating sim elements. It works. Somehow.) < 1285467041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the actual in game music is better < 1285467051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it was just the intro music that I found rather bad < 1285467087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then we have inconsistent opinions on Shouji Meguro. :P < 1285467127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, though the battle music, while technically good is not really my cup of tea (to use a British idiom) < 1285467157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkh-ZehNibg And this? < 1285467196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, starts out good at least < 1285467227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm vocals, opera style? < 1285467232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1285467244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Because Shōji Meguro is stranger to no genre. < 1285467288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, technically good, but I personally dislike vocals in opera style < 1285467308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You appear to have restricted tastes. < 1285467319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *do* you like? < 1285467339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal likes my singing < 1285467366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Okay, I'm sorry. He apparently has a burnt out musical-taste lobe. < 1285467371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remove the vocals (well that wouldn't work, replace it with some instrument, maybe violins?) and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkh-ZehNibg would be awesome (it is already very good) < 1285467387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't think I said I liked Sgeo singing? < 1285467392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was joking
< 1285467407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it very nasty < 1285467423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, example of a game where I liked all music: zelda oot < 1285467431 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285467435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... Have astoundingly narrow tastes. < 1285467439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no < 1285467440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do you like the Aquaria music? < 1285467445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it was just an example < 1285467453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I have no clue what that is, so no idea < 1285467472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJEpxPWJAh8 < 1285467503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm... I like Gregor's music too :) < 1285467509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqZpngl1LwI And this? (random remake on the soundtrack album, not in the game) < 1285467518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, queued < 1285467561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm futurama theme is also nice btw. < 1285467573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you are disallowed from playing JRPGs. You hate the freaking theme of the best series bar none. :P < 1285467595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, I like that final fantasy I played on SNES < 1285467602 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285467604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF6. < 1285467605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the spoony bard one < 1285467624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, one with floating continent or such? < 1285467625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1285467639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, whatever number that one had < 1285467664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJEpxPWJAh8 <-- rather restful. Game music? Which genre? < 1285467679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : otherwise I will just abort the game at the first cut scene ;; lol < 1285467680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, game music. < 1285467686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I like NWN1 music too btw. < 1285467697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wesnoth has awesome music < 1285467704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I swear, I am going to fly over there and force you to play some games some day. < 1285467707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what genre, but I've heard Aquaria described as something like Metroid and.. Castlevania? I haven't played those < 1285467715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because God. < 1285467734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIOuQjgMYY more spirited < 1285467738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, secret of mana had mostly good music too < 1285467780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqZpngl1LwI And this? (random remake on the soundtrack album, not in the game) <-- starts out very nice, a bit jazzy < 1285467789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I like jazz < 1285467814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, quite far from jazz, at least traditional jazz... Still very good < 1285467842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the last one before I go to sleep < 1285467851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, will queue that one for tomorrow < 1285467941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you ever going to go to fucking bed like you said three times? < 1285467953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, two I think < 1285467975 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285467982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I invoke the Swedish idiom "tredje gången gilt" (translation left as exercise to the reader. < 1285467985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus: night → < 1285468012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night Vorpal < 1285468108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody gives a shit about you enough to translate what you say < 1285468517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't turn into Vorpal please < 1285468525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know it's really Vorpal turning into you) < 1285468549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time I insulted someone in this channel? < 1285468599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years < 1285468770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're just making it up, unless you link to logfile < 1285468820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't been here 5 years < 1285468903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember discussing when I first came in < 1285468915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, seeing the logs recently < 1285468920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking about PESOIX < 1285468931 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Premonition of evil things to come < 1285469072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP7nBFk1C20&NR=1 < 1285469078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the Aquaria soundtrack < 1285469080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3<3<3 < 1285469493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.project10tothe100.com/ideas.html < 1285469510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea I had a very long time ago would fall under "Create real-world issue reporting system" < 1285469692 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285470558 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285471901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has discovered a new virtual world
< 1285472409 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1285472580 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285472683 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1285473543 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285473736 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1285474828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when you see this: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010529 < 1285474860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1285474934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Userfriendly. A webcomic that follows newspaper comic conventions! < 1285474944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*especially* the "no art change ever" one) < 1285475048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And the "not being funny" one < 1285475079 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god the far side never followed those conventions < 1285475129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor did Calvin & Hobbes. < 1285475172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOR DID GARFIELD < 1285475176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets shot
< 1285475176 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1285475178 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1285475182 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i snickered < 1285475184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garfield is so post-modern man < 1285475188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear God Garfield actually had art change, didn't it. < 1285475205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garfield is awesome because you know that it's actually taking place inside an empty house while Garfield is starving to death and hallucinating because of it. < 1285475210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: The Halloween sequence. < 1285475219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, Jim Davies SAYS it's not canon... but we know the truth. < 1285475221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE KNOW THE TRUTH < 1285475224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sequence is awesome. < 1285475250 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Garfield may have changed art once, but it fits perfectly the "not being funny" convention < 1285475325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, alise is awake for some unfathomable reason < 1285475337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut the hell up about when I'm awake. < 1285475341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1285475373 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it alise? < 1285475405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It had art evolution, actually. < 1285475419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:29am < 1285475422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*4:29 am < 1285475426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illiad never made episode 2 < 1285475465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://www.garfield.com/comics/vault.html?yr=1989&addr=891023 Also, you must read this. < 1285475477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(storyline) < 1285475552 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid flash won't work for me :/ < 1285475554 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1285475662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/episode1.html < 1285475667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually liked this when I was a kid < 1285475744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Userfriendly is simple: it is bland as hell. < 1285475767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, this is the normal expectation of comics. < 1285476048 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHD tends to be pretty good on that front though. < 1285476053 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of them are lolworthy < 1285476253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMBC's quite good. < 1285476282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyanide & Happiness is good sometimes, though it does dead baby humor so much that it actually *becomes* mundane somehow. :P < 1285476348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur Comics is just awesomeness in comic form. < 1285476365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Dr. McNinja is awesomeness². < 1285476571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur Comics > everything < 1285476584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pictures for sad children < 1285476590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only one that can even compete with dinosaur comics < 1285476698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Dr. McNinja is more about being the epitomy of epicness to the exclusion of all else. I don't think you can really compare it with comedic comics, because, uh. It's about having crowning moments of awesome. < 1285476705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it is very good at. < 1285476847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3G5IXn0K7A why does this exist? I don't dislike it or anything, but who would bother? < 1285476880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Warning: ancient Internet meme] < 1285476891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah they remade it like 50 times < 1285476895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to cash in on the popularity < 1285476918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did they "cash in" though? < 1285476920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to click because I am listening to good music ATM. < 1285476925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what meme? < 1285476933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hampster dance < 1285476939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hamster < 1285476945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, kill it with fire the meme. Got it. < 1285476955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is catchy though < 1285476959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: released as a single < 1285476964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah o.O < 1285476989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first heard it (at least a section of it) in a weird way < 1285477010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.4chan.org/flash/?file=comeback4chan.swf&title=Come+Back+4chan < 1285477013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SFW, I _think_) < 1285477017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1285477026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black and White makes the low HP battle music *not horrible*. < 1285477027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0TcjM7wUM < 1285477088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read about Pokemon as a kid. And that's it
< 1285477099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had a book that listed all of them, think I had a story < 1285477100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ... read about it? < 1285477124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have played Pokemon Snap at a friend's house once, and .. the thing with the arena at camp < 1285477242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. Emulator. Pokémon. Now. < 1285477265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, if you prefer: hǫke'to monnsutâsù) < 1285477301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading a book that had a section for parents. It said something like "You endured a talking purple dinosaur, you can endure this" < 1285477323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nao. < 1285477348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you wasting time when you could be playing the game? < 1285477370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember friends at my house when I was showing off Macromedia Shockwave thingy that I just learned about and I asked them for something for me to do. They had me have "Mew" scroll across the screen, iirc < 1285477389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do not know why it was on my computer < 1285477399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said nao < 1285477407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could find the tutorial animations again, that would be amazing < 1285477430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had a book. I think the book came after me finding that, not sure < 1285477434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My god they made the low HP battle music sound good. < 1285477438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, after I eat, I need to go to sleep < 1285477462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also: "No Gen I-IV Pokemon pre-national dex. Which means no more Zubats, Tentacools and Geodudes." < 1285477467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: < 1285477469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Fake Longevity: At long last AVERTED, battles are extremely sped up compared to the previous games, and without animations, it's essentially as fast as you can push the buttons. < 1285477469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the task of catching all of the Pokemon is mitigated A LOT by the Dream World having essentially every Pokemon available to find. Some require codes of course, but still!]] < 1285477473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They took Pokemon and removed all the shitty parts! < 1285477476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO FUCKING BATS < 1285477479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's see how they made the game last longer than three seconds! < 1285477479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO FUCKING BATS < 1285477489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They'll add more bats, just differently-named and different looking ones :P < 1285477501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You should play it. < 1285477509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the Japanese will pose no trouble for you. < 1285477519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much space would an emulator and the game take up? < 1285477521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I totally will. < 1285477526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Megabytes? < 1285477530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of on a low-space budget right now, for obvious reasons < 1285477534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have 50 left < 1285477552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aren't DS cartridges like < 1285477553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more < 1285477577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cards currently range from 64 megabits to 4 gigabits (8–512 MiB) in size (although the maximum capacity is unknown). < 1285477596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 8 to 512 megabytes (as you know them) < 1285477599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: For a Gameboy cart? < 1285477600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, delete some fucking shit < 1285477601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DS... < 1285477609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need Factor. < 1285477610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The last generation (remake) was DS, too :P < 1285477612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need Second Life. < 1285477620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Protip: Gameboys aren't made any more < 1285477632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Emulator" < 1285477643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, the last one wasn't a remake either. XD < 1285477645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also: Pokemon Red & Blue is for the Gameboy biznitch. :P < 1285477650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What do you mean "Emulator"? < 1285477654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Factor is huge < 1285477661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :114.9MB < 1285477665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokemon Black and White, like Diamond, Pearl and Platinum, are *DS* games. < 1285477678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Red & Blue is *Gameboy*. < 1285477686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have a slightly warped understanding of "huge" < 1285477694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was talking about playing Black & White, which have removed the suck. < 1285477704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't out in English yet, you see. < 1285477709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was Gold? < 1285477717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I'm not hallucinating that? < 1285477729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold & Silver were the first sequel. < 1285477732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mean, besides me < 1285477746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? Two games to a generation? Red and blue aren't separate? < 1285477767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285477769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, two games to a generation < 1285477770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like always < 1285477786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can be the first person to start with a Pokemon *other* than Tsutarja! < 1285477808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there was often a 0.5 gen game. < 1285477812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of your Pokemon love is due to nostalgia? < 1285477813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yellow, Crystal, etc.) < 1285477824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a reasonable JRPG, actually. < 1285477826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: none < 1285477831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't play a pokemon game before Sapphire < 1285477835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit light on the plot, but not bad mechanically. < 1285477840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it someone else's copy of ruby, eh < 1285477841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1285477844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are excellent < 1285477848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although irritating < 1285477857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black & white speeding up battles will make it nicer < 1285477879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for me nostalgia definitely kicks in. It was my first JRPG. :P < 1285477888 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285477898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: third games are pretty much inevitable now < 1285477906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow • Gold, Silver, and Crystal • Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald • Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum • Black and White < 1285477912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these things is not yet like the others < 1285477919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1285477938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grey? < 1285477942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or transparent < 1285477943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1285477947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireRed and LeafGreen • HeartGold and SoulSilver ;; neither of these count :P < 1285477958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, remakes. < 1285477969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between Red and Blue? < 1285477975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example < 1285477985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encounter tables. < 1285477998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno but for sapphire/ruby it's < 1285478010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of the bad guys, plot elements, the colour of the box art, and one pokemon unique to each < 1285478015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only get both by trading < 1285478037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Unless* you're in Japan, in which case Blue was the bug-fix rerelease with a different map setup and art, which all the foreign releases were based on. < 1285478051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: For the first gen, there were a *lot* of Pokemon unique to each. < 1285478057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no other differences. < 1285478065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just the encounter tables. < 1285478081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1285478082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1285478084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1285478161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and the Japanese versions of the games also had Mew attainable without bugs. < 1285478173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(motherfucking bad export for you) < 1285478310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Windows NT MIPS running :) < 1285478325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁵ < 1285478325 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard about the new Pokemon Black/White, and that one change is that the pokemon numbers now start at zero. < 1285478339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And there's 150 Pokemon. < 1285478351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the first time in, oh, 14 years. < 1285478374 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They don't start at one anymore, although number 1 is still the grass starter, not number 0) < 1285478419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want to see in a pokemon game is another mode which adds limitations and removes some features and changes some, to make a bit different kind of game. < 1285478478 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Another thing I have heard about the new game is that there is now a Flying/Null type) < 1285478555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still amazes me how Mew was put into Pokemon. < 1285478596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programmer snuck it in and didn't tell anyone until after the game came out. < 1285478653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is how? I didn't know that. < 1285478725 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1285478908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1285478909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSS < 1285478912 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGYESYESYES < 1285478916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual C++ 2.0 for MIPS < 1285478939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNIGN: I AM TIRED < 1285478948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with all consequences of Sgeoan tiredness < 1285478949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgena < 1285478951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgean < 1285479218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Couple weeks before they shipped the code out to be masked onto ROMs. < 1285479337 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. Thanks for telling me that < 1285479369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Mew wasn't an official promo thingy? < 1285479390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have created ... A BINARY! < 1285479440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nope, it was a complete and utter surprise to Nintendo. < 1285479459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, it helped make Pokemon a success < 1285479460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They took the code for actually getting it *without* a promotion out of the out-of-Japan release, though. < 1285479477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the Japanese version, catching all Pokemon gave you a Mew) < 1285479678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1285479684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mewtwo's existence was deliberate? < 1285479700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so there was a hypothetical "Mew", just not expected to be programmed in? < 1285479705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285479730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mewtwo was in a bonus dungeon. < 1285479760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beat the game, go to Cerulean Cave, get you a Mewtwo. Hope you held on to that Masterball!) < 1285479769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm not interested in Ubuntu < 1285479772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1285479805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but your mom is. All night long. < 1285479815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285479864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, I don't care. I don't really take those jokes personally < 1285479936 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People take those jokes personally? < 1285479941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept is absurd. < 1285479959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it was possible to take them personally. < 1285479964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean it like that < 1285479969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, me getting offended < 1285479991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I didn't know it was even meant to be all that offensive. < 1285480023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very premise is too absurd. < 1285480030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like your mother. < 1285480062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mother died in 2004 < 1285480090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1285480138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think basing people's unwillingness to make "Your mother" jokes on alise's reaction may have been a mistake < 1285480138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean to be rude or anything, but... It's a freaking "your mom" joke. It's not a slight against your mother, it's hardly even a reference to her, it's just a mildly cliché form of joke. < 1285480157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but I'm used to alise avoiding all mention of such jokes, is all < 1285480203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when you read this: I don't care anymore, I won't get offended < 1285480284 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mildly cliché"? < 1285480288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is 100% cliché. < 1285480292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is entirely a cliché. < 1285480306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a cliché it has transcended cliché. It is a metacliché. < 1285480310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clíche < 1285480356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing those accents is mildly annoying for me due to the missing key < 1285480395 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ compose key < 1285480399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have attained a habit of understating things from Japanese. < 1285480405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but accents require the compose key.. < 1285480409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ < 1285480409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's polite) < 1285480410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1285480451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a list of compose key shenanigans somewhere? < 1285480459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose-<-3 is awesome! < 1285480459 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1285480461 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1285480470 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are all so obvious you shouldn't need it < 1285480485 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose-m-u is � < 1285480487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, if I don't realise that a heart can be done with compose key, I wouldn't even think to try it < 1285480499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µtorrent < 1285480510 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� is 1-2 < 1285480513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose-p-i is not pi < 1285480513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� is 3-4 < 1285480525 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that bothered me too < 1285480533 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no composed pi < 1285480549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encyclopædia Dramætica < 1285480582 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� is L-- < 1285480589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want the list < 1285480599 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use your google fu < 1285480602 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ain't that hard to find < 1285480619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C♯ < 1285480652 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�erjan < 1285480658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tired insanity ©Sgeo < 1285480681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1÷0 < 1285480707 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commas put tails on things to get french letter < 1285480710 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1285480718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100¢ < 1285480725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses ¢ these days? < 1285480761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use it to repla¢e c. < 1285480767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁰ < 1285480787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :âĉê < 1285480790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuu < 1285480825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tàiakuritiŧkusu. < 1285480839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The table that Wikipedia has doens't mention ♥ < 1285480912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :± < 1285480938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :„ < 1285480941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOT < 1285480972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♮ < 1285480979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a ♮ at this < 1285480983 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are uses of TeX trigraphs in CWEB programs, for example, if you want a literal "|" in the TeX output, if you want a literal "*/" in the TeX output, or if you want a space at the beginning of a line. < 1285481039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see ♥ on this list < 1285481050 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a new one < 1285481059 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285481069 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285481074 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: also, it's unicode < 1285481079 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you shouldn't use it < 1285481085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you want to stop CWEB from complaining about unmatched braces in comments < 1285481095 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you should use the superscripted 4-0 you printed above < 1285481108 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shouldn't < 1285481135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is IRC dammit, and we have laws! < 1285481141 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, uh, social conventions! < 1285481188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC works best with plain ASCII, although UTF-8 and things like that can be used, too, if all relevant clients are configured correctly. < 1285481229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have PuTTY configured to use UTF-8, so anything that isn't valid UTF-8 will print as a block) < 1285481263 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is possible to change what characters can be entered by the compose key. < 1285481322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I hereby ban non-Unicode. < 1285481365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand þat þe Unicode be uſèd! < 1285481382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are þere any who would conteſt þis? < 1285481475 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the convention is so that people on mobile clients and such that don't support unicode aren't constantly bitching about funky gibberish in their screen < 1285481491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for one thing my IRC client does not have capability to send unicode (although it can receive unicode OK). < 1285481515 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in another channel, there is a bot that lets you set a catchphrase that displays when you enter, and i set mine to a plain old message, but every letter was changed to its unicode equivalent < 1285481547 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people on mobile clients bitched and moaned because it translated to gibberish that was twice as long and filled up their screens so they couldn't read what was actually happening in the channel < 1285481575 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got very unpopular for a while there < 1285481585 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain old message? What unicode equivalent? < 1285481620 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It said something like "Whogivesafuckaboutan encoding?" < 1285481635 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all of those characters were the unicode versions < 1285481647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shockingly, Visual C++ 2.0 MIPS doesn't have getopt. < 1285481650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Þat's bullſhit. If you can't do Unicode in þis day and age, you do not deſerve Internet access. < 1285481659 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to generate them here, but on my old OS, shift+space switched to an all-unicode input mode < 1285481684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppoſe next you'll be saying we should mandate þat we uſe only HTML 1? < 1285481688 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: some mobile devices just don't HAVE unicode-supporting clients yet < 1285481698 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primarily because the devices themselves don't natively support unicode < 1285481704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And þoſe devices are þus BROKEN < 1285481718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII codes are the same in UTF-8, unless overlong encodings are used. < 1285481725 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because everyone doesn't have to see when people bitch about webpages not displaying < 1285481734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You shouldn't use any HTML on IRC < 1285481737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat: not supporting UTF-8 is brain damage of the worst kind. < 1285481739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter HTML 1 or not < 1285481742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, I mean *on the web*. < 1285481761 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the devices are broken pikhq, but people have them nonetheless < 1285481764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: HTML 1 *on the web*. Because some moron might be using an ooold browser. < 1285481772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I care not. < 1285481772 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the people we have to deal with when they whine about it < 1285481776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O, sorry. If you want efficiently and full compatible, use plain text, don't use HTML at all if HTML is not necessary. < 1285481791 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sticking to ISO 8859-1 isn't all that hard to do < 1285481792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, right, it's you. With the Gopher server. :P < 1285481794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is necessary, use HTML, use whatever tags are important, and any tags the browser does not understand will be ignored. < 1285481796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is OK. < 1285481809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: この言語はISO 8859-1にないぜ！ < 1285481834 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't speak that language < 1285481846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Also, *yes it is*. You realise that ISO 8859-1 is actually hardly ever used? < 1285481848 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that to your silly asian irc server < 1285481860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Instead what is used is a Microsoft code page that is *similar*. < 1285481872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is always advertised as ISO 8859-1. < 1285481889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat: non-Unicode is brain damage of the worst kinda and it should be murdered. < 1285481900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not merely stopped, MURDERED IN A COLD ALLEY. < 1285481917 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should i know what is actually being used? i just tell IRC to only transmit 8859-1. if it fucks that up, i really don't care, because it works for all the characters i use on a regular basis < 1285481962 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already told you i agreed with you on that front < 1285481985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My program utfeight.tex supports overlong encodings and calls them valid. You might use them to enter unicode characters that are equivalent of ASCII codes but you don't want them to be used as those TeX commands < 1285481988 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just explaining why that convention came into existence < 1285482004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The convention on Freenode *is* to use UTF-8, BTW. < 1285482034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The convention on my IRC server is to use plain ASCII, although you can use UTF-8 if you want. < 1285482056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: I care not for conventions that exist only to support retarded software that's decades out of date. < 1285482067 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. For you. < 1285482084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I *hate* having to deal with the encoding game for Japanese. < 1285482102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(attitudes like YOURS are responsible for there being 4 encodings in common use for Japanese and OH GOD MAKE IT STOP) < 1285482130 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attitudes like mine? < 1285482137 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even know what my attitude is < 1285482139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It works just fine so let's not change it" < 1285482168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why typical Japanese IRC uses a character encoding designed for being compatible with a DOS encoding that supported ASCII + half-width katakana. < 1285482172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vomit) < 1285482175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i never said "it works just fine" < 1285482180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work just fine < 1285482184 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine FOR ME < 1285482191 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I won't change it < 1285482199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is the problem. < 1285482213 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a problem < 1285482221 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't ever write in japanese < 1285482222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For English channels that have Japanese text typed in it, though, UTF-8 is more commonly used for that purpose. < 1285482225 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't have caused that problem < 1285482240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but the same attitude causes that problem in Japanese. < 1285482259 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people being wrong is not an attitude < 1285482262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, English doesn't fit in ASCII or ISO 8859-1. Just FYI. < 1285482285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't English fit in ASCII or ISO 8859-1? < 1285482304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: “Quotation marks”, anyone‽ < 1285482312 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1285482317 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" is good enough for me < 1285482324 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unambiguous by placement < 1285482325 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if you don't want straight quotation marks < 1285482341 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curly quotes are silly anyway < 1285482358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loan words; comprendé? < 1285482359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curly quotes should be used only in books, not on computer text documents < 1285482376 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interrobangs should be used nowhere < 1285482392 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285482416 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i don't know any common use loan words that don't fit in ISO i8859-1 < 1285482418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diaresis, perhaps? (as in “coöperate” or “naïve”) < 1285482429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let'ſ ſee if I´ll have to kill anyone oveſ Unicode ♥ < 1285482435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "Arigatō". < 1285482438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use backspace to compose characters in plain ASCII, although a lot of program do not accept that < 1285482454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workſ perſectly ſor me < 1285482458 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we spell it arigato here. < 1285482467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You fail at long s. < 1285482476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepareſ to die by pikhq'ſ handſ
< 1285482477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes, and that's a completely horrifically wrong spelling. < 1285482490 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see files that use backspace with the same character twice to make bold < 1285482491 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tends to be the case with loan words < 1285482498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that ſ isn't f < 1285482501 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't think you are supposed to ever use long s at the end of a word < 1285482506 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we don't really borrow them, just steal them and modify them to our liking < 1285482518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I knew that too, although I think someone said that it used to be used there < 1285482522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in modern typing, long s is not used at all < 1285482541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did schools stop teaching ſ? < 1285482557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know, but it isn't commonly used these days anyways < 1285482564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did public education come to be, for that matter? < 1285482577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels clueleſs
< 1285482584 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: in the U.S., long before the declaration of independence < 1285482591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Also, dashes — as opposed to the common hyphen — are not in ASCII or ISO 8859-1. < 1285482605 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1647 in Massachusetts < 1285482608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that's the answer to which question? < 1285482615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: EEEEHHHH, wrong. Long s came out of use during the 1800s. < 1285482618 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public education < 1285482630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. Public education. Right. < 1285482630 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: neato < 1285482652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's written "In Congreſs Aſsembled" on the Constitution. < 1285482653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people were angered by everyone's use of s? < 1285482654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1285482692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is with the weird a? < 1285482697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one writes a like a < 1285482702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you want to be über-cool, use ß for “ſ”. < 1285482708 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, when i want it to be pretty < 1285482709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1285482714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ſs”. < 1285482717 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1285482720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to say... < 1285482727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ß is the ligature for ſs) < 1285482744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in German, isn't it? < 1285482744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aßßaßßination < 1285482746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1285482754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aßaßination < 1285482756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it! < 1285482757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, though it fell out of use in English in the 1600s. < 1285482765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O, OK < 1285482770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ſs does look like ß < 1285482777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was a bit uncommon starting in the 1500s. < 1285482777 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and when did � fall out of use in english? < 1285482789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Printing press. < 1285482793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It does if you put it close together < 1285482806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably where it comes from < 1285482824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Printers didn't have glyphs for þ, so they substituted first "y" and then "th". < 1285482825 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and per se and is my fave ligature < 1285482831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some faces, they are very pretty < 1285482833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to take a document containing "the" to back then, would it be understandable? < 1285482851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this, BTW, is where we get the bizarre "ye old" thing. Because "y" was substituting for þ.) < 1285482868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That *is* where it comes from. < 1285482874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is the ligature of ſs. < 1285482923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aß < 1285482938 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got that right < 1285483025 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go to bed if i'm gonna get up in 5.5 hours < 1285483033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Þe quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. < 1285483034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit < 1285483044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice < 1285483056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Þe quick brown fox jumps over Þe lazy dog < 1285483067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*þe < 1285483078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Þe quick brown fox jumps over þe lazy dog”, þou mean'ſt. < 1285483129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean'st? < 1285483142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I almost have netcat for NT MIPS < 1285483150 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you might find this interesting, in a scan it for info kind of way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws < 1285483162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go to sleep < 1285483209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peeoples! < 1285483219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1285483951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia claims that þ is Compose-T < 1285483959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes no sense < 1285483992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wtfs at Ctrl-Shift-ude
< 1285483999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sense does that make? < 1285484037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for unicode < 1285484043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, that makes a weird sort of sense < 1285484073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÿ < 1285484084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you type it when the unicode has digits? < 1285484141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, got it < 1285484146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :啕 < 1285484150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is fun! < 1285484167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the \outer command in TeX. < 1285484194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ < 1285484202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Shift-U2603 < 1285484204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, look, it's 口+勹+缶! < 1285484276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚠Fire in the disco⚠ < 1285484277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚠Fire in the disco⚠ < 1285484295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚠Fire at the Taco Bell⚠ < 1285484342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚠Don't you want to know how we keep starting fires‽ < 1285484362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my desire! It's my desire! < 1285484432 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AugurMD < 1285484446 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh, got netcat to compile on NT MIPS, but it doesn't work :P < 1285484461 0 :AugurMD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1285484712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1285484815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Placebo effect can't stain teeth, can it? < 1285484838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either my mouthwash is staining my teeth after two uses, or my teeth are really screwed up < 1285484845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I just haven't noticed before < 1285484928 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285484929 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1285484929 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1285484967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your teeth may be really screwed up. < 1285485194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a4gyJsY0mc potentially nsfw, but no skin. Also certainly nsfh < 1285485886 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1285486801 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-18-46.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1285486833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who wants SSH into Windows? X-P < 1285486838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows MIPS that iss < 1285487432 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1285487668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def\defnoexpand#1{\def#1{\noexpand#1\noexpand}} < 1285487999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1285488000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1285488619 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1285490097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is an example demonstrating some of the new features of Enhanced CWEB version 0.3: http://sprunge.us/RBID < 1285490223 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions?? < 1285492266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1285492585 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1285492715 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net - < 1285492831 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-197.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285493352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285494876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm bogosort isn't stable right? < 1285494893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stable bogosort, I wonder how it could be accomplished < 1285495238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bogosort? < 1285495248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like bogomips? < 1285495378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bogosort is when you mix it at random and then check to see if it is sorted or not. < 1285495460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read about a quantom bogosort, in which after checking to see if it is sorted or not, and if it is not sorted then you have to destroy the entire universe. If it is correct then you do not destroy the universe. < 1285495504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose one way of destroying the universe might be to cause a paradox?) < 1285495542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, one of DMM's searches? < 1285495586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, algorithms. < 1285495610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, I don't know < 1285496561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that dell laptop has this CPU. (though I'm not 100% certain): http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27593 < 1285496701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't think DMM made it < 1285496742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is just one of those well known "joke" algorithms. IIRC it dates back to the 1980s or earlier < 1285496749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. It seemed like one of his... < 1285496872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, he did bogobogosort. < 1285496898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that one work? < 1285497143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's recursive bogosort. < 1285497247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way is it recursive? < 1285497307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meh* googles < 1285498018 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1285498320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, go drink hydroxic acid. < 1285498778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than going to the garage makes you a car. < 1285499441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you say this for no apparent reason? < 1285499457 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1285500284 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this somewhat like how John Stump writes music? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/circuit_diagram.png (Except, that it isn't music, in this case.) < 1285500636 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285501101 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285501226 0 :Wamanuz!~Markus@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285501763 0 :Harpyon_!~Harpyon@ti0031a380-0390.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1285501850 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285501871 0 :Harpyon_!~Harpyon@ti0031a380-0390.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1285502291 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zangband zangband yeah' < 1285502582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285503091 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1285504730 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1285505117 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1285507090 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285507327 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1285507328 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1285507328 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1285507545 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zangband < 1285507762 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285509127 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-33-59.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1285509186 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, wine doesn't work on NTFS, becuase "NTFS does not provide all the file system features needed by some applications" < 1285509330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, wait a second... "on ntfs"? Are you running wine on windows? < 1285509461 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, they're probably talking about linux' ntfs support not providing all the features < 1285509758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah that makes a lot more sense < 1285509966 0 :iGO!~xk001@62.169.98.185.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1285510140 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-119-166.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1285511488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285512703 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1285514327 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285514346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1285514406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:18:30 I have Windows NT MIPS running :) < 1285514409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only 3, ha ha < 1285514414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I blame you severely. < 1285514599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49:17 pikhq, but I'm used to alise avoiding all mention of such jokes, is all < 1285514606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alive moms get no such preferential treatment :P < 1285514641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285514691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04:34 sgeo: also, it's unicode < 1285514691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04:39 so you shouldn't use it < 1285514697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel has no such law < 1285514755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11:15 the convention is so that people on mobile clients and such that don't support unicode aren't constantly bitching about funky gibberish in their screen < 1285514758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use such clients < 1285514761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1285514788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1285514798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:14:07 Shockingly, Visual C++ 2.0 MIPS doesn't have getopt. < 1285514800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you have it?! < 1285514818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (context: me and Gregor have been trying to get Windows NT working on a non-x86 architecture) < 1285514836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT 4, specifically, but Gregor's cheated and done 3.5 because that's easy < 1285514841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is it an arch it was actually ported to? < 1285514848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, yes < 1285514849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you trying to port Windows without (or with?) access to its source? < 1285514855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86, Alpha, MIPS, PPC < 1285514870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the archs NT 4 runs on < 1285514882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with MIPS, we've got all the bios and stuff setup so it does the part of the install before the first reboot < 1285514892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then gets into graphical mode, says it's initialising, then it freezes including the mouse forever < 1285514912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A Computer Database Maintainance is currently going on our Webmail Message Center. Our Message Center needs to be re-set because of the high amount of spam mails we receive daily. A Quarantine Maintainance will help us prevent this everyday dilemma. < 1285514912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with PPC, the bioses are being stoopid and we can't get it to boot < 1285514920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Alpha, we have no idea what the hell can simulate a full Alpha machine properly < 1285514927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails completely because I'm not actually accessing the account via webmail < 1285514935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was sent three times < 1285514936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Alpha one translates x86 Windows executables to Alpha JIT, though, which is awesome < 1285514940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then *stores the translation* so there's no further overhead < 1285514948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it mostly because the title was "HTML *******" < 1285514962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1285514980 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1285514988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I actually got two more copies it seems, with the title "SPAM: Important: Email Account Verification Update? ! ! !" < 1285514994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SPAM: at the start is added by the university spamfilter < 1285514999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which often hits false positives, but not this time < 1285515005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, were you there when I created a monster hybrid of Windows 2000 and NT 4? < 1285515018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1285515036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, another spammer was talking about recalls for hip replacements < 1285515046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a recall for one of those would probably make the news... < 1285515060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To make IE completely removable, I - like someone had done for XP - swapped in the NT 4 explorer.exe for 2k's. < 1285515079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus producing an ever-so-slightly broken but surprisingly-well-working 95-era interface on Win2k. < 1285515090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1285515094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One of the bugs is that the default action on folders was Find, not Open. :)) < 1285515106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was/is; pick one to keep it consistent < 1285515187 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some registry hacking could get that default action fixed? < 1285515208 0 :tombom!~tombom@86.24.9.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285515209 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1285515209 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1285515237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: almost certainly < 1285515250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also crashes an awful lot for no particular reason -- for instance every time you click a link in IE, and many other things besides < 1285515255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd remove IE, but... < 1285515681 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285515711 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1285516196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is doing SCIENCE
< 1285516242 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285516471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE complete, results disappointing < 1285516638 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1285516690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I am completing online surveys for an entirely imaginary person who wishes to be contacted about nothing, and referring versions of myself with different email addresses, in order to get the Spotify Premium code at the end, just to see if it actually ever happens < 1285516703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i'm trying to figure out where i put the variation on my address to refer myself < 1285516856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i think that one tries to iframe a survey so it can tell when it's done < 1285516859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it breaks out of the iframe < 1285517199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Remember that each of your referrals must complete 1 credit worth of offers to be classed as a complete referral." < 1285517205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't I guess that? < 1285517232 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-119-166.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1285517653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm getting excellent quotes on comparethemarket.com for my 1970H BMW 1600, 1573CC Petrol, 2DR, Manual < 1285517871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give up; it won't confirm my vehicle < 1285518162 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1285518245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I suppose one way of destroying the universe might be to cause a paradox?) < 1285518261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the rather hypothetical part... :D < 1285518296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obvious from quantum mechanics that you can destroy a universe arbitrarily. < 1285518424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you can do is to make different ways of reaching the same outcome interfer with each other, destroying all of them. but it's not clear that you can always find some way to interfer away a particular outcome, afaik < 1285518544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it's not obvious from quantum mechanics that you can destroy a universe arbitrarily. < 1285518554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you _could_, you'd probably have a way of solving NP-complete problems with quantum computing. scott aronson's blog Shtetl Optimized as as its subtitle "Quantum computers are not known to be able < 1285518557 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :227| it's not obvious from quantum mechanics that you can destroy a universe arbitrarily. < 1285518558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time." < 1285518574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the same way quantum bogosort works? < 1285518576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1285518591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was the discussion zzo38 was responding to... < 1285518601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I suspect that if it were possible to arbitrarily destroy the universe, unless it was incredibly difficult someone would have done so by now < 1285518612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's not obvious you _can_ do quantum bogosort < 1285518628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the anthropic principle rather implies that we live in a universe that's hard to destroy arbitrarily < 1285518662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um in this case the idea is that you would notice if someone destroyed the universe, since you would by many-worlds interpretation be in one of the universes that hadn't been destroyed < 1285518670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*would _not_ notice < 1285518696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and there are always worlds in which the universe is not destroyed? < 1285518711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you have to draw a distinction between destroying the universe, and the multiverse < 1285518741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between a class X-4 and a class X-5 on the TVTropes scale of apocalypse severities < 1285518760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that in fact _does_ follow from quantum mechanics since the unitary evolution always preserves the length (i.e. square root of total probability) of the state vector < 1285518805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, if you can destroy an entire multiverse, destroying maths and logic seems fairly easy by comparison < 1285518822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, I suspect that if it were possible to arbitrarily destroy the universe, unless it was incredibly difficult someone would have done so by now < 1285518824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the quantum sense < 1285518852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this links in to the rather kooky idea of quantum immortality) < 1285518863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Secretly ... oh so secretly ... the page you linked to with instructions on how to install NT4 MIPS in QEmu also has sufficient information to find where the author has squirreled away a downloadable copy of VC++ for MIPS :) < 1285518872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well all this stuff only becomes mildly realistic because you _can_ in some sense interpret interference of quantum waves as destroying the universes in which the wave sums are zero < 1285518874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: haha < 1285518887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in the ported software section? < 1285518895 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nope. < 1285518910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well actually yeah, there too. < 1285518912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i freakin' found the page, netcatted you an iso and got a good part of NT installed, just tell me :P < 1285518916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But that's not where I found the information :P < 1285518919 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff < 1285518920 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@178-191-136-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1285518923 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec, need to refind the link :P < 1285518937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: i freakin' found the page, netcatted you an iso an < 1285518938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1285518943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:21 PM 65012747 WindowsNT4.0-MIPS.iso.gz < 1285518946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, that one might actually work < 1285518952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aaronson < 1285518953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you found it. < 1285518956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, tried that. < 1285518962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't work about it? < 1285518964 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Same issue. < 1285518985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/WindowsNT4.0-MIPS/GNUstuff/ < 1285519004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/WindowsNT4.0-MIPS/irc/ OMG IRC < 1285519075 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1285519082 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1285519103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so is the iso exactly the same, more or less? < 1285519108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being presumably workstation? < 1285519119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:41 PM 234936 wimamp25.zip < 1285519120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDD < 1285519125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wim"amp? < 1285519134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "The TCS Stack Exchange. Exponentially better than emailing Scott Aaronson." < 1285519140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it's MIPS-only, but it's behaviorally close enough. < 1285519146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something tells me the guy feels a bit inundated :D < 1285519154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So they just deleted the non-MIPS directories, then? < 1285519172 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Either that or it actually was a MIPS-only CD in the first place. < 1285519230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suspect the latter because it actually has a label that looks like a MS kind of label, and nobody bothers to label when they just make ISO images. < 1285519265 0 :Kordalien!~chatzilla@adsl-71-141-89-187.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285519334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ooh, I wonder if qemu 0.10 will work with MIPS? Although apparently old versions of QEMU get the colours wrong, and it was only a recent effort, so probably not, but I have it compiled anyway, so... < 1285519339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any progress with PPC? < 1285519373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It boots the bios, at least. (qemu 0.10/mips) < 1285519406 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: None, got too excited about MIPS :P < 1285519422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also reboots. < 1285519447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And loads the setup. < 1285519451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc4030 ERROR: rc4030_writel: Cache maintenance not handled yet (val 0x1b) < 1285519461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure the setup will start :P < 1285519466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems not. < 1285519479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You do realise that whatever succeeds must be physically replicated? < 1285519510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Except that it's substantially easier to physically install NT4 and say "screw QEmu" :P < 1285519520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than going to the garage makes you a car. < 1285519538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what made zzo38 say that, but found it amusing
< 1285519539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You forgot the "build, by hand, a motherfucking MIPS workstation". < 1285519565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Except you can probably more easily buy, by hand, a complete motherfucking MIPS workstation. < 1285519569 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :228| Going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than going to the garage makes you a car. < 1285519625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's motherfucking cheating. Like buying a Dell computer when the goal is being fucking awesome. < 1285519632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUILD the MIPS workstation. < 1285519697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mildly interesting programming system < 1285520043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this channel has no such law <-- frequent logreaders instead wish for a ban of iso-8859-1 < 1285520085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my browser interprets utf-8 as iso-8859-1 by default, as do i think many others < 1285520088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is highly irritating < 1285520091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's what you mean < 1285520098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid server not sending the content-type header < 1285520100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially this morning when the logs had a discussion in which different participants used iso-8859-1 and utf-8 < 1285520110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no! < 1285520121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean actual usage. < 1285520172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time my browser detects that the logs are utf-8 automatically, but not always < 1285520197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when someone actually has used iso-8859-1 it of course breaks completely < 1285520243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while irssi guesses encoding on at least line-by-line basis, IE seems to have no such fine-grained option < 1285520250 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!~user@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285520260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G-MIPSYEAH: is that from mips? < 1285520269 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAAAAH < 1285520272 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1285520279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until I do that < 1285520328 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!~user@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285520338 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This IRC client sucks so much. < 1285520352 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's convinced I'm not actually in this channel. < 1285520361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot or gtfo < 1285520402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION memes about stacktrace
< 1285520469 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It didn't even give me that message from you. < 1285520474 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1285520498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREENSHOT OR FTGO < 1285520517 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow < 1285520525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't effing care or GTFO :P < 1285520632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey i'm good at that! sometimes. < 1285520719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH HOMEWORK DAMMIT < 1285520721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1285520729 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!~G-MIPSYEA@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285520751 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo < 1285520757 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better worse IRC client :P < 1285520761 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it knows I'm in this channel. < 1285520824 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT THAT YOU CARE :( < 1285520856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care < 1285520860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well if i cared i'd have to GTFO, you told me so < 1285520872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh we'll have to ban you then < 1285520876 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... touche sir :P < 1285520880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that this is genuine MIPS, as JSMIPS would have no Internet connectivity < 1285520895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get NT to work on JSMIPS =P < 1285520896 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's QeEmu MIPS, running Windows NT. < 1285520900 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahno < 1285520903 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would RULE. < 1285520991 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1285521054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, Firefox just loves crashing! < 1285521099 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/ircyeah.png < 1285521113 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot < 1285521116 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It DID happen. < 1285521330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT 4 on JSMIPS < 1285521335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running cygwin < 1285521337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running X11 < 1285521341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the best way to do graphics in JSMIPS < 1285521350 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right to me. < 1285521355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G-MIPSYEAH: was the other one graphical? < 1285521385 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1285521386 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very.' < 1285521391 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't fucking work :P < 1285521522 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quit < 1285521522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1285521524 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1285521527 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greaaat. < 1285521530 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell do I quit? < 1285521538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the screenshot wasn't of JSMIPS < 1285521545 0 :G-MIPSYEAH!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285521694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Duh :P < 1285521701 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1285521702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have a porpoiseal. < 1285521726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can barely have 5 tabs open in Fx when OpenOffice.org Writer is open < 1285521765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your mad biology experiments will be your downfall, i tell ya < 1285521781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: AbiWord < 1285521808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if I have enough disk space for that < 1285521823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285521841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries
< 1285521865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do, or do not. There is no try. < 1285521885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I get a bigger USB stick, could I set it up such that some of it is swap space? < 1285521926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1285521942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to do some hairy things, though. < 1285522173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they would appreciate it. < 1285522398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If girls with hair on the top of their heads count... < 1285522411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hairy enough. < 1285522825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I get a bigger USB stick, could I set it up such that some of it is swap space? <-- um that's silly < 1285522841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, swap on flash is a bad idea generally < 1285522852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to write cycles being rather limited < 1285522876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDs are generally rated for much higher write cycle count, so less of a worry there < 1285523777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ay98m.png Straight, gay, lesbian, hispanic, bisexual or unsure? < 1285523816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I get a bigger USB stick, could I set it up such that some of it is swap space? < 1285523816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probably. < 1285523816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You'd need to do some hairy things, though. < 1285523816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If girls with hair on the top of their heads count... < 1285523818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop doing that shit, it's not funny < 1285523913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you miss what Gregor said? < 1285523946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :girls _without_ hair on the top of their heads probably count, in a paradoxical way < 1285524030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's got very little to do with the fact that half of the things you say serve no other purpose other than a de facto nick change to HormonesDeliveredThroughAnIRCSocket :P < 1285524163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wouldn't want to deliver your hormones that way, since it would be cut off < 1285524898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's the first time I've seen Sgeo say anything that would corroborate that statement. < 1285524935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well ok it's more like >1/3 of his jokes. < 1285524961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't noticed that either... < 1285524998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not about to go log trawling < 1285525036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand people who have persistence of memory for other people. < 1285525054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really good at it :P < 1285525066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could easily tell who says what in this channel without names < 1285525078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's on. < 1285525080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is SO on. < 1285525086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack an IRC client to hide names and DO IT. < 1285525118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i already proposed a game that takes a random recent snippet of logs and asks you to fill in the names < 1285525124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent as in < 1285525126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the past few years < 1285525132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not from like 2005 when god knows who everyone was :P < 1285525150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, make it! < 1285525155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't just talk about it! < 1285525164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told fizzie to make it < 1285525167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is everybody else would suck at it :P < 1285525208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to make botornot < 1285525301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bot, or not to bot < 1285525365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crud, I have such a terrible memory for people :( < 1285525380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got back in touch with a childhood friend who I haven't spoken to since 2004 < 1285525382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1285525394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He remembers a lot about me < 1285525398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember almost nothing about him < 1285525407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Concept behind botornot: Reverse Turing test. Two players are brought together, one is a questioner, the other is an answerer. Also brought in is a randomly-selected bot. Both answer questions, and the answerer tries to convince the questioner (judge) that he's the bot. The questioner then guesses which is the bot. If you're a human and you get guessed as bot, you win points. < 1285525452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could pretend to be ELIZA-like < 1285525471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1285525481 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you were paired with a better bot, they would still think IT was the bot, 'cuz ELIZA is too easy. < 1285525489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you think you could pretend to be ELIZA-like? < 1285525504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems all three sides could easily cheat < 1285525516 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The bot can't cheat. < 1285525520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there's a famous dialog somewhere where Douglas Hofstadter was asked to assess a "new chatterbot" < 1285525522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The questioner certainly can't cheat. < 1285525532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when he was actually being connected to a group of students pretending to be a bot < 1285525538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The only other issue is timing, and that can be smoothed out. < 1285525543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lawl; what about timing? < 1285525548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't believe you. They can all cheat. < 1285525557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was told the connection was to a mainframe at the other end of the campus < 1285525563 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What does it even mean for the judge to cheat? < 1285525567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bandwidth was so limited those days that the high latency was plausible < 1285525616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://pastebin.com/VvdSYukk < 1285525620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that? < 1285525637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure. perhaps even without the numbers < 1285525649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what rough time is that from? < 1285525655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :June. < 1285525657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you forgot to censor lifthrasiir; is he a number? < 1285525662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1285525676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used search-and-replace to get rid of the names. < 1285525688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suppose one way is doing things other than simply sending normal messages. Such as looking elsewhere. Or other protocol commands. < 1285525689 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285525711 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's just silly. Why are we building such a criminally broken system around this? I never claimed it was IRC. < 1285525747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And sending random text or whatnot is fine. < 1285525752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know that. But if it is IRC there is obviously those way. If it isn't IRC, there might be other ways. < 1285525761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what did he conclude? < 1285525766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are ways that are not even part of the protocol, possibly. < 1285525766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: got all but #1, very small sample size there < 1285525768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about it < 1285525785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: first they convinced him it was a rather inept bot, and he believed it < 1285525793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Everything you're mentioning is /within the realm of what the judge is allowed to do/, you just need to respond in the right bot way. < 1285525795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they used the fact he thought it was a bot to try to weird him out < 1285525804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did it work? < 1285525809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually he side-channeled it, on the basis that everyone was too busy laughing < 1285525815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was a first run. < 1285525816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it worked for a while < 1285525821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1285525829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't be bothered doing it for lots of names. < 1285525831 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285525860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And really, your only argument thusfar is "if you fuck it up really bad, the judge can cheat". So don't fuck it up so bad :P < 1285525887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: < 1285525888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 = I don't know; uses standard orthography, may be quoting some incorrect source or simply having typoed meaning no strong aversion to uppercase/exclamations for probably-comedic effect. "Well, pressable, apparently." seems to suggest someone, but I don't know who. < 1285525888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 = uorygl (if not, then maybe Phantom_Hoover? probably not) < 1285525888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 = oklopol < 1285525888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#4 = Gregor < 1285525890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION _thinks_ #3 may be oklopol
< 1285525895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah, OK. (I suppose if it is IRC, it is possible to write te client to do certain things with CTRL+A VERSION and so on, is that cheating?) But it doesn't have to be IRC, it can be a simple protocol < 1285525905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: These are my guesses. < 1285525909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It can be a web page where you enter text. < 1285525911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's it. < 1285525912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i _had_ typed that, just needed to press enter) < 1285525914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, #2 also use comma pings < 1285525914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole interface. < 1285525916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't be Phantom_Hoover < 1285525919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1285525921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be < 1285525925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses comma-highlights < 1285525925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That doesn't count as a simple protocol like I said < 1285525935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I know believe it's more balanced between uorgyl and phanty < 1285525939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll still go for uorygl < 1285525941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you remember details like that? < 1285525942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, no < 1285525945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1285525947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There's no value in making this have a "simple protocol", and I never claimed it would. < 1285525949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Phantom_Hoover < 1285525953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rank my guesses? < 1285525976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#4 is wrong, but #3 and #2 are correct. < 1285526007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahahaha < 1285526029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so it was you? < 1285526030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple protocol would be where two clients tonnect to the judge's server... The judge's screen displays messages with their IP address and broadcasts messages typed to the clients. To make it a bit harder to cheat, both clients can connect through Tor nodes < 1285526031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1285526043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm #4... < 1285526050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That makes timing a nightmare. < 1285526062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:24:17 <#4> They'd be all "sorry, we're out of numbers right now, but we'll be getting more next Tuesday from our number mines". < 1285526062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:24:45 <#4> Everything comes from mines. < 1285526062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:27 <#4> Yes, they refine primes from large composites extracted from the earth. < 1285526072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1285526074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fizzie < 1285526074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The bot can always respond instantly, but the user will take time, messages need to be buffered for some predetermined amount of time (30 seconds?) to get rid of the timing channel. < 1285526083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 seconds is too much < 1285526086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it 10 < 1285526094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, correct < 1285526096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :) < 1285526100 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Give the user time to think :P < 1285526100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's #1? < 1285526106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 15 to 20, then < 1285526109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 30 is just boring < 1285526114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also, if the user enters faster < 1285526117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have it send both < 1285526131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But then the length of the bot's submission could make it obvious. < 1285526143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i didn't actually read the idea :) < 1285526144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you say "yes" and the bot spits out Moby Dick, and it sends in 3 seconds, GEEE < 1285526152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So yeah, I am pretty good at it. < 1285526155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are right about that < 1285526166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 was cpressey. < 1285526166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so make it not spit out moby dick :P < 1285526179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Remember, the bot writer wants the judge to think their bot IS a bot. < 1285526186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, i wouldn't have got that < 1285526187 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And that would make it clear that their bot is a botr. < 1285526188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bot < 1285526190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the CERTIAN thing a quote < 1285526191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1285526195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285526201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so the human has to pretend to be a bot? < 1285526206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: okay. what's the day, fwiw? < 1285526206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the Moby Dick be too large file? < 1285526212 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's the whole idea. < 1285526217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably :P < 1285526231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well that's easy < 1285526234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say whatever eliza would say < 1285526243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 30/6/10 < 1285526249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it is HTTP, the server can easily reject a file that is too large) < 1285526254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But ELIZA is too easy, if the bot is slightly more cleverer, they'll figure the human is being an idiot and the bot is really the bot. < 1285526258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The judge isn't a retard. < 1285526273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1285526276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd always mark eliza as a bot :P < 1285526283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are we trying to make the bots more realistic? < 1285526287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make them less humanlike < 1285526288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1285526290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more humanlike < 1285526292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defeating the point < 1285526294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Doesn't matter. < 1285526297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1285526306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The bots are whatever bots seem OK, that's like, the whole trick to the thing. < 1285526309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing an ELIZA thing on TV < 1285526315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which interested me in Pandorabots somehow < 1285526318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: then why not eliza < 1285526324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know if that actually lead anywhere < 1285526355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have run the ELIZA program manually using dice, before. < 1285526362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The bot COULD be eliza, but if the majority of the bots in the botbank AREN'T eliza, then just going with the one that seems like eliza is a bad guess. < 1285526382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, get coding. < 1285526397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or I guess I could :P < 1285526399 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mangy looking leper begs you for money. < 1285526457 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Novice ranger tries to cast a spell, but fails. < 1285526482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In fact, it would even be OK to have an interface that just lets you chat with some bot, to try to get an idea of what the bots in the botbank are like. < 1285526495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: makes it too easy and less hilarious < 1285526517 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How does it make it too easy? The judge and the answerer can both chat with the bot. < 1285526535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could just intricately study every bot < 1285526544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typos would let you win < 1285526548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You feel yourself yanked downwards! < 1285526550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typos of humans < 1285526551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imitating bots < 1285526575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You think you can imitate a bot that well, with any amount of studying at it, but with the input being unpredictable? I think you're being extremely optimistic. < 1285526596 0 :delayed_optbot!~ehird@91.104.239.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285526604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that hard, is it, delayed_optbot? < 1285526612 0 :delayed_optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't see how that architecture could ever work :-P < 1285526619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not, delayed_optbot? < 1285526625 0 :delayed_optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delayed_optbot: or if you didn't < 1285526629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whops < 1285526631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoops < 1285526632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there goes my jig < 1285526634 0 :delayed_optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1285526647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went up. < 1285526648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the worst bot ever < 1285526648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still rising. < 1285526695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO NT 4 < 1285526703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, get delayed_optbot on. < 1285526724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON JSMIPS < 1285526725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For what? < 1285526731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://github.com/tycho/openhackware < 1285526735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe the latest version will work better. < 1285526749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Latest version is the version Debian has. < 1285526757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest *git commit*? Okaay. < 1285526777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I bet we can get OpenHackware working with latest qemu. < 1285526801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f x -> f $ f $ f x < 1285526801 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (.) (join (.)) < 1285526809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type ap < 1285526810 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1285526818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the right -M. < 1285526899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm, does it have any compilation options? < 1285526901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for certain machines < 1285526916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only machine it supports is QEmu. < 1285526917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like being able to type in Unicode⚠ < 1285526935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but it says machine meulation < 1285526936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emulation < 1285526938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[OpenHackWare is an OpenFirmware emulator intended to be used on PowerPC machines. It is not a real OpenFirmware as it knows nothing about Forth. It emulates the OpenFirmware boot time interface as well as the RTAS interface. It also emulates some known "interpret" strings, to make it able to launch known OSes.]] < 1285526939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285526942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does openfirmware too, why < 1285526951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :￮ < 1285526956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1285526960 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1285526960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I just type? < 1285526967 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nonsense. < 1285526968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEF < 1285526970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEFF < 1285526973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.openfirmware.info/SmartFirmware < 1285526973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's FEFF? < 1285526978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: An alternate Open Firmware implementation. < 1285526980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, does anyone remember that relativistic CA we tried to make a while ago? < 1285526989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't OpenFirmware use Forth? < 1285527007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :뻯 < 1285527008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEEF < 1285527009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1285527011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that someone managed to get SR working in a CA. < 1285527015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1285527027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+BEEF = 뻯 < 1285527069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone called Mark Smith, apparently. < 1285527078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: link < 1285527110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/ mentions it tangentially. < 1285527132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark smith is the 110 prover < 1285527138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1285527141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was matthew cook < 1285527170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1994 mit dissertions with cellular automat(a|on) in the title < 1285527171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go search < 1285527188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CBwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.18.7750%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&rct=j&q=Mark%20Smith%20relativistic%20cellular%20automaton&ei=KoifTLCRM8f24AbY5IytDg&usg=AFQjCNFEED0eug9-OOdH4yWN5y9vtTaMtw&sig2=aq92m9j25Gxoal_PLVFcnQ&cad=rja seems to be it. < 1285527253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Doesn't support PPC < 1285527267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FML < 1285527273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, so, MIPS! < 1285527277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it freeze < 1285527283 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misread that as power
< 1285527286 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, 3.51 rules < 1285527299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're crazy. < 1285527309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, ahem. < 1285527311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The challenge NEVER ENDS. < 1285527321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testtest < 1285527325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, 3.51 is win32 with a win16-like interface! < 1285527326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS AWESOME < 1285527339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win16-like interface = horrible :P < 1285527344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadf < 1285527348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, the challenge DOES NOT END. We made an agreement. CONTINUE < 1285527372 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done, I got Windows NT running on MIPS. < 1285527419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We said NT 4. < 1285527440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T CARE < 1285527451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :«» < 1285527465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, JSMIPS JSMIPS JSMIPS < 1285527473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§4 of that dissertation has the Lorenz-invariant CA stuff, it appears. < 1285527482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You violated a secret oath. < 1285527488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: § is section, not page, you know < 1285527494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1285527494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know. < 1285527497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant section. < 1285527497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1285527502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's precisely what I meant! < 1285527508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ is a simoleon < 1285527612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1285527618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :␦ < 1285527637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :␇ < 1285527654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What good is the symbols for control characters if the damn symbols don't show up? < 1285527659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, we get it. You can dump Unicode into the channel. < 1285527685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the symbols for control characters don't show up because THEY'RE CONTROL CHARACTERS. < 1285527698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY SHOULDN'T BE PRINTED. < 1285527707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those are supposed to be the symbols that represent them when you want to print something < 1285527709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1285527733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUL on a diagonal < 1285527733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1285527744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :✆ < 1285527767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, control characters should never be represented graphically. < 1285527799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1285527873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they can be in e.g. editors that edit binary files < 1285527911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, that's what the fancy representations are for. < 1285527928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those fancy representations are what I was trying to print < 1285527934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Sgeo seems to expect them to be printed if there's a null in the channel. < 1285527941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somesuch. < 1285527944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285527945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't < 1285527951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightspeed doesn't require infinite energy in CAs < 1285527955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. th elightspeed telegraph < 1285527961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1285527964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my < 1285527982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not in the real world either, as long as you use luxons < 1285527988 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longest living zangband character just died ad fucking dlvl 11 by disease < 1285527994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://decodeunicode.org/en/control_pictures < 1285528001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EDIT This Unicode block is a collection of visible glyphs for control characters." < 1285528002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played with this goddamn char whole summer < 1285528005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lawl < 1285528009 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1285528010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's a single relativistic CA. < 1285528013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: still, though :P < 1285528015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm jst saying < 1285528018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1285528024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's not even a sensible formulation of "energy" in Life. < 1285528065 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285528092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be < 1285528093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1285528100 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in a despair < 1285528119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not force times distance. < 1285528136 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why now! < 1285528137 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1285528137 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: . ? @ v < 1285528138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: New challenge. < 1285528141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURD on real hardware. < 1285528147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably: Itanium. < 1285528154 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turd on real hardware < 1285528156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you need a hamiltonian/lagrangian mechanics for energy to really make sense, afaik < 1285528158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to apply physical things to Life is stupid in the first place. < 1285528160 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, quite easy < 1285528168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're stupid in the first place < 1285528178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: good luck getting an itanium workstation < 1285528183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother is stupid in the first place. < 1285528200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: life isn't reversible like microscopic physics, for one thing < 1285528212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1285528213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285528218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the most interesting reversible CA? < 1285528249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, although rule 30 is at least locally reversible < 1285528256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1285528262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D :P < 1285528283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't _know_ any notable 2d reversible ones < 1285528286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't even sure if there *are* any 2D reversible CAs of interest.
< 1285528308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally global reversibility is undecidable for 2d CAs but not for 1d iirc < 1285528338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a big iirc in this case) < 1285528387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to be < 1285528390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they're >2 colours < 1285528502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1285528511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the HPP lattice gas reversible? < 1285528527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excluding sinks. < 1285528531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sources. < 1285528533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undecidable? < 1285528536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, it can < 1285528556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be algorithmically determined, for any 2d ca, whether or not it's globally reversable < 1285528559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1285528569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's what i _think_ i am recalling < 1285528577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes. < 1285528584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems obvious to me :) < 1285528593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/HPP_small.gif hypnotic < 1285528593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRTWPAIAWC < 1285528594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between global and local reversibility? < 1285528604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm if you have a bunch of arrows < 1285528610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then obviously to reverse a state, make it move back one < 1285528617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they go in opposite directions when collided < 1285528621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves how much of WP's CA stuff is from Golly.
< 1285528623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whenever you have e.g. <> < 1285528626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just flip both of them to reverse < 1285528631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they advance one at the same time < 1285528637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then <.> turns into >< < 1285528642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so that's the most interesting one I can think of. < 1285528644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with colliding wals < 1285528646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*walls < 1285528651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least the version in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/HPP_small.gif is easy enoughto reverse < 1285528656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, it isn't terribly interesting < 1285528661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are reversible turing machines < 1285528759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langton's ant with a single ant? < 1285528771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well global would mean here that a given configuration of the _whole_ infinite space has only one possible parent < 1285528798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not langton's ant, surely < 1285528806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when it collides < 1285528808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after spinning off < 1285528812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, maybe i'm wrong < 1285528825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe. < 1285528828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One consequence: If there's life, it can never die out < 1285528830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm perhaps the best way of designing a reversible CA is figuring out how to go one step backwards, then just doing that in reverse >:) < 1285528831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awesome < 1285528833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, that *is* a joke) < 1285528838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: untrue < 1285528841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can die out as long as it leaves a corpse < 1285528847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while local would mean that if you have most of the parent configuration itself, but are missing a finite portion, you can only fill it in in one way < 1285528860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 30 fulfils the latter but not the first iirc < 1285528866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that if you retraced the ant's steps, that would make it reversible. < 1285528914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can something be globally reversable but not locally? < 1285528931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1285528975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, corpses have to live < 1285528992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1285529002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it could just stay there forever < 1285529005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immortal but unmoving < 1285529005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't go from non-still-life to still-life < 1285529039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in Life < 1285529046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's not true < 1285529050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can collide with something else in Life < 1285529054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who said we're talking about Life? < 1285529056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life isn't reversible < 1285529064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was talking about a globally reversable CA
< 1285529069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1285529070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't go from non-still-life to still-life < 1285529073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not necessarily true at all < 1285529155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no because globally reversable means you have a unique parent even if you have _no_ information about it beyond its child configuration. btw i'm probably misremembering terminology something vicious here < 1285529194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_automaton#Reversible corresponds to what i call global < 1285529298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what < 1285529314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the unique parent of a stilllife that a non-stillife gave rise to? < 1285529345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in a reversible automaton you cannot get a still-life from a non-still life because a still life is its own parent and can have no non-stillife one < 1285529378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION marvels at his own inconsistent hyphenation
< 1285529385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, of course < 1285529398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Sgeo it could turn into a very stupid form of life, i guess < 1285529457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually understood something before alise did? < 1285529462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this witchcraftery? < 1285529523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH < 1285529580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm another way of saying what i call local reversibility is that two configurations that differ in a finite set of cells cannot have the same child < 1285529642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand, life will never be able to venture into the empty universe < 1285529666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: er what? < 1285529699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1285529704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nevermind < 1285529737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a reversible CA you could have something that shrunk from unbounded size to something small, then expanded back again < 1285529811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh if a configuration's ancestors are all finite then they must repeat, and so the descendants are also (the same repeating) finite configurations < 1285529821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1285529827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*within a finite area < 1285529827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so basically all life grows eternally :) < 1285529837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1285529842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ungrows and regrows forever < 1285529847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :living your life backwards :P < 1285529849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285529853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it starts living its life backwards < 1285529857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nothing can change < 1285529858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1285529860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, incidentally, you can go from spaceshipoid to still-life in Life. < 1285529862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody can suddenly shoot it while it's regressing < 1285529867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would mean it wouldn't have finite states < 1285529868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1285529879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the predecessor of point P would be in one timeline whatever should happena < 1285529881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the other < 1285529881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it doesn't have to go backwards the same path, you just need a cycle < 1285529882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting shot < 1285529891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm? but it's global < 1285529912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if it's finite always < 1285529927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaceship guns would be illegal, too... < 1285529935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my correction above was because you can obviously have something that's finite but eternally moving < 1285529944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could a hypothetical scientist in a CA ever deduce that cells and generations exist? < 1285529956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it depends. < 1285529963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about that a while ago. < 1285529980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he could create an accurate model with them < 1285529982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why not, we in the real world have hypothesized planck time and length < 1285529985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think you could verify it < 1285529999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could have a particle accelerator that fired gliders at each other and checked the debris. < 1285530003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't "see" a dot moving from one cell to another < 1285530011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looks continuous to you < 1285530012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a CA world _might_ have an easier time proving it < 1285530018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you only exist "in" the generations too < 1285530040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although life in Life would either be insanely sparse and ultra-redundant, or so fragile it would die before it could do anything. < 1285530081 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-227-177.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1285530119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt Life itself can sustain life < 1285530121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads to the interesting scenario that they would have a workable equivalent of attotechnology. < 1285530122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1285530125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously can sustain life < 1285530128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. gliders < 1285530131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a sort < 1285530133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285530142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make "life" in Life that has to pick up "food" every now and then? < 1285530144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it dies? < 1285530147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could have a very very sparse universe. < 1285530154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is turing-complete < 1285530159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the main competition in CAs is space. < 1285530164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe the more food it has, it goes faster? < 1285530165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can simulate a mind in a computer, we could simulate it in Life < 1285530165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(up to a point) < 1285530167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the evoloop patterns in golly. < 1285530186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:14:07 Shockingly, Visual C++ 2.0 MIPS doesn't have getopt. < 1285530189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile rawirc < 1285530206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, assuming evolution, the first lifeform to develop a power source would dominate completely. < 1285530211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although such a simulation would likely not be able to do science at the level required.. < 1285530228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is turing complete then it would be possible to make it have to pick up food every now and then, I suppose, but not necessarily in a way that might be expected < 1285530240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285530248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a replicator in life < 1285530252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(knightship, but it just erases itself) < 1285530255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's asexual reproduction < 1285530259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any sexual reproduction in life? < 1285530259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's assume that the lifeform is made of very sparse, stable technology. < 1285530263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, so far known < 1285530270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With redundancy to a great degree. < 1285530285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two ships of some sort that, when some part of them collides in a certain way, they build a third ship < 1285530287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then continue on < 1285530301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a stray glider won't cause the kind of catastrophic collapse it does with periodic, dense constructs. < 1285530320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I haven't been following the Life news lately. < 1285530346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That replicator came out of nowhere, and people were tinkering with it when I stopped checking regularly. < 1285530369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a replicator gun. < 1285530381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha really? link? < 1285530388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway sexual reproduction would be interesting if it exists < 1285530392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loads it into Golly
< 1285530401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://pentadecathlon.com/lifeNews/index.php < 1285530403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linuxdesk.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/could-not-open-location-you-might-not-have-permission-to-open-the-file-totem-movie-player/ < 1285530404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrr < 1285530410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a youtube.py to patch < 1285530412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'd say that anything that 1) relies on food to survive and 2) reproduces sexually is DEFINITELY life < 1285530430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(things that don't meet those criteria can be life too, it's just that I think anything that fulfils those two is unquestionably life) < 1285530444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap it's huge. < 1285530462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to recall some "official" definition of life involving "capable of undergoing darwinian evolution" < 1285530471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's just in our universe :-) < 1285530473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285530479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants conscious life
< 1285530481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had those food-eating, reproducing creatures < 1285530483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any form of evolution would pretty quickly lead to lifeforms with their own power supply. < 1285530484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can do science! < 1285530488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put them in a repeating pattern of space with food in it < 1285530490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be interesting < 1285530494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they will compete for space. < 1285530499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they're stupid and reproduce in an area they've already gobbled up < 1285530505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their babies will die before they reach food < 1285530507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they're not < 1285530510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to start with < 1285530511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reproduce enough < 1285530516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a very high chance they'll reproduce forever < 1285530520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some of the space will be unusable, either from corpses or random bits of ash left over from initialisation < 1285530531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do we make it so it selects for intelligence? < 1285530535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could get evolution going. < 1285530537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1285530540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution isn't something you design... < 1285530542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of the point < 1285530554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What pressures could we apply, I mean < 1285530557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution is what happens when you have threats in an environment and random mutation due to reproduction < 1285530562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make clever bad guys. < 1285530564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same problem < 1285530566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically nothing < 1285530572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if a lifeform can work out how to fix unusable space, it would have an advantage. < 1285530583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a possible selection for intelligence. < 1285530597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sophisticated manipulation and sensory equipment. < 1285530665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course what we really want is lifeforms made out of the equivalent of a few hundreds to a few thousands of particles < 1285530675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in reality you'd almost certainly have to zoom way, way, way out to see anything < 1285530682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at that scale the actual life mechanics aren't very interesting or relevant < 1285530682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Have I made it clear what my assumed lifeforms are like, by the way?" < 1285530685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*) < 1285530687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1285530705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very sparse, stable, redundant components for everything. < 1285530710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1285530713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're fairly durable. < 1285530728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Powered" by glider streams between components. < 1285530730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my idea of a simple definitely-lifeform, i'm imagining spaceships with little dangly reproductive bits that, when a certain part collides with the reproductive bit, both of them work to create a clone < 1285530731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually, when we notice them working on low-level physics, how do we communicate with them? < 1285530733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then continue on < 1285530743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, also, some sort of energy supply that can be replenished by them going into food < 1285530751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ideally they'd search for it in a stupid way) < 1285530760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they could send out glider and LWSS streams to sense things. < 1285530766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we got that, I'd have the firm conviction that Life can sustain life < 1285530781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And communicate information such as genetic code. < 1285530784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: true, hey, it'd be peacocky < 1285530790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we had evolution, < 1285530795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd evolve things that absorb gliders < 1285530799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They woudln't know to attempt to initiate communication < 1285530801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send back an "OMG REALLY FERTILE HOT HOT" signal < 1285530803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1285530805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look at what fancy spaceships I can synthesise!" < 1285530828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we don't communicate < 1285530829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which directly implies good synthesis apparatus and patterns. < 1285530833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be very hard to < 1285530840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is incredibly unlikely that they will be anything like us < 1285530852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even communicating with aliens in this universe is a huge chore at best < 1285530855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically impossible at worse < 1285530864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about different *fundamental universe structures* here < 1285530879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... we just watch. and don't interfere. < 1285530889 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285530891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we understand to some extent how their universal structure works < 1285530906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than they do... although perhaps at too low a level to be useful < 1285530911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now pile an incomprehensible number of layers of complexity on top of it < 1285530916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus an evolved form of life that we didn't design < 1285530920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has evolved so much it's intelligent < 1285530929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is therefore utterly incomprehensible to us with very high probability < 1285530944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I can see them discovering particle physics in this model. < 1285530965 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;fd < 1285530965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their particle physics, presumably < 1285530969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285530971 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tpp < 1285530972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, but they wouldn't be able to verify that they're in a discrete universe < 1285530973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1285530982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do that, you'd have to observe a dot jumping from one cell to another < 1285530982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see their Standard Model... < 1285530987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, they can't < 1285530991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they *don't exist* in those moments < 1285531000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're busy state-changing themselves < 1285531003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this applies to all machinery too < 1285531010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to them, the universe looks completely continuous < 1285531012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how freaky is that?! < 1285531013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1285531013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they could do things that a discrete universe is the best explanation for? < 1285531015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no # < 1285531021 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmdk < 1285531021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perhaps < 1285531024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but if they discovered the b3/s23 mechanic independently and then discovered "hey, this *exactly* models the results for the LGC!" < 1285531030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they could never observe a discrete universe < 1285531033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large glider collider :D < 1285531037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1285531039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just crazy, i mean < 1285531042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could be in a discrete universe < 1285531045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it looks completely continuous < 1285531047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1285531050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We probably *are*. < 1285531056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it looks discrete to us? < 1285531059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :planck length, etc < 1285531060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not really < 1285531066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :planck length is just the length below which everything is fucking strange < 1285531078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually quite an indicator that we're not seeing what's really going on there < 1285531084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so planck length may be our cell size :) < 1285531089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wouldn't go so far as probably, Mr. Wolfram < 1285531091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sure is interesting < 1285531099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this stuff < 1285531107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this also gives them the ability to design microchips. < 1285531113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1285531120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synthesis is a bit hard in CA universes i think < 1285531130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'll be at such a macroscopic scale that they won't see the microscopic particles doing crazy shit to get it done :) < 1285531133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure they could evolve it though < 1285531137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using the kind of circuitry we do. < 1285531144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WireWorld :-) < 1285531153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to talk to them :( < 1285531166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe tell them about cells and generations < 1285531167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more of p30 and p46 glider circuits. < 1285531175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: even if you /could/, there's no way you'd possibly live long enough to see them evolve into intelligent life! < 1285531185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the fastest Life simulators run many times slower than our freaking universe! < 1285531187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many, many times slower! < 1285531190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which run *very* quickly compared to even our stable technology. < 1285531193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about the entirety of evolution up to humans here! < 1285531226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way this will _ever_ happen is if there is some kind of lunatic project to run and maintain an almost impossibly-fast computer running this over the course of countless civilisations, disasters, wars -- anything < 1285531240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that somehow *survives* for those -- I don't even know how many years it'd take, far too many, anyway. < 1285531245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to rename alise to Debbie Downer
< 1285531249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1285531252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're in a post-singularity situation < 1285531254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all living inside its VR < 1285531255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1285531257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time outside is irrelevant < 1285531269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a gajillion years may pass in what is everyone's perceived second < 1285531275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it could be done in seconds < 1285531288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by simply running (an incomprehensible number) of generations every tick of the AI < 1285531298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would have no subjective effect on us < 1285531304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we could observe it going by awfully quickly < 1285531336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now whether we'd be around to recognise civilisation before it puffs out, who knows? the AI could store all the past generations if the universe has boundless storage... (or just really, REALLY incomprehensibly big storage)) < 1285531405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff is ridiculously interesting < 1285531406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285531408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: talk more < 1285531408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1285531412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUMBASSES < 1285531413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53512&start=0 < 1285531413 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285531418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are so fucking unhelpful < 1285531430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking about the LGC. < 1285531433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or LSC. < 1285531442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHC < 1285531447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux mint is dumbness < 1285531454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large HWSS Collider? < 1285531464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have the same problem as in that post < 1285531472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the responders seem to be less-than-bright < 1285531480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're linux mint users < 1285531495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe Mplayer would work... < 1285531506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i would be very surprised if intelligent organisms had fine enough control to synthesise gliders. < 1285531512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, the fact that we can do the LHC is surprising too :) < 1285531525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an alien watching us in the stone age would say the same. < 1285531546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, I suppose they'll split the atom with a pointy rock." < 1285531556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1285531571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's a really, really sharp rock, though." "But it's a ROCK." < 1285531623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that there was an evolutionary advantage already to fine glider syntheses. < 1285531624 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1285531633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they are useful for a lot of things. < 1285531662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if they discovered the lightspeed telegraph :) < 1285531675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What the fucking fucking what." "Yeah, you know what? I'ma start believing in God." < 1285531694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agar: < 1285531700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THIS MAKES NO FREAKING SENSE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" < 1285531709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1285531721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agar was one of the things I considered them discovering. < 1285531724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I bet the bubbles in agar end up revolutionising their physics into something completely incomprehensible like quantum physics did for us :) < 1285531737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otoh < 1285531741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell would they observe agar? < 1285531744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really, can you? < 1285531747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the time from start to end < 1285531749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what happens inside < 1285531749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, their sensory arrays will cause a catastrophic collapse in the agar. < 1285531759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1285531760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, what's over th-- < 1285531764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a bubble leaves the Agar... < 1285531766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how the heck would they build it? < 1285531774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what < 1285531774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*massive glider wash* < 1285531775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even build agar? < 1285531778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1285531783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, but it's complex. < 1285531784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you discussing life in game of life or something? < 1285531787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: haha wow i just realised, what would a glider gun look like to them < 1285531790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes < 1285531791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHAT THE FUCK ALL THE COLOURS" < 1285531792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spacefillers do it, for insance. < 1285531793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285531804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey, still life would be invisible to them. < 1285531804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably like a laser, if anything. < 1285531805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1285531806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they accidentally built a spacefiller? < 1285531813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they used better spaceships < 1285531814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they hit it with a glider. < 1285531816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see < 1285531817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not much. < 1285531820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they could see still life < 1285531822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is *intelligent* life possible in a completely deterministic simulation? < 1285531825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would hit something and burn. < 1285531832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, naturally. < 1285531834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1285531837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you believe in free will < 1285531837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that depends on your view of free will I guess < 1285531839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just makes you an idiot < 1285531849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(free will in /that/ sense, that is) < 1285531860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, most of our Life patterns are unbelievably fragile. < 1285531872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can synthesise a spacefiller < 1285531875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not with current knowledge < 1285531877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single cell inverted can destroy everything. < 1285531887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although yeah, you just need better lifeforms :P < 1285531890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily destroy a spacefiller < 1285531895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be *able* to synth a spacefiller. < 1285531895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"easily" < 1285531897 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1285531904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh right tur < 1285531905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*true < 1285531908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL Life might end up being just that fragile < 1285531908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the "real" world isn't deterministic, at least if you subscribe to quantum mechanics < 1285531914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such that a stray glider kills everyone < 1285531916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, is it known that salvo glider synthesis or whatever it is < 1285531922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it known that you can synthesise more than that? < 1285531926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not necessarily true at all < 1285531934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then science comes along.. < 1285531934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they could be pseudorandom numbers from the universe above < 1285531939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would look totally random to us < 1285531941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm okay < 1285531942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming we don't know the seed, etc. < 1285531949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1285531957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of doubt quantum effects *give the brain free will* < 1285531957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global synthesis is still unsolved. < 1285531959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just insane < 1285531964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with alise
< 1285531976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc neurons interact in some way with quantum effects < 1285531977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true, just saying it isn't deterministic < 1285531985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to ponder that God interacted with the world by quantum effects < 1285531985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt that matters as much as the free will believers would like to think < 1285531992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used to ponder some stupid stuff :P < 1285532016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, neurons do interact with quantum effects? < 1285532017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, quantum effects are part of the effect that makes free will, and possibly also partially the effect of consciousness. < 1285532019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pondered if everyone in the world was a reincarnation of his line of consciousness, conspiring against him.
< 1285532022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well it was a pop science article < 1285532023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not < 1285532032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently some little element of neurons was quantum < 1285532033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1285532035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of things does that you wouldn't think do < 1285532039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's a very short story about that < 1285532041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(interact with quantum effects that is) < 1285532043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gold. < 1285532060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc gold is yellowish due to quantum tunnelling < 1285532060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, you actually construct nigh-invulnerable shielding in Life. < 1285532061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr he dies, "hi, i'm you." "wat" "so is everyone else." "ohhh" "you're actually an alien trying this shit out." "ok" "have fun" [revived] < 1285532065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is there a database of life patterns anywhere? < 1285532067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disconnected from the wiki < 1285532074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stores rle, shows it, description, comments, categories < 1285532084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives them all unique identifiers < 1285532085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, why not? < 1285532095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's the Life Lexicon, but it's not at all thorough. < 1285532095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: O, so that is why elements are the color they are? < 1285532096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah gold's colour is cool :) < 1285532101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not necessarily < 1285532102 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1285532103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gold, i think < 1285532106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe some others < 1285532108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not every element by far < 1285532111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's pretend that it weren't completely impossible, and try to communicate with GoL intelligent life < 1285532111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold is a strange one < 1285532114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would we say? < 1285532118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gold? < 1285532121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does it matter? they wouldn't believe us. < 1285532123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, maybe copper too < 1285532124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, b3s23 < 1285532129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not their sceptics < 1285532137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could prove it < 1285532144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we couldn't < 1285532145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1285532149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could ask them to perform some experiment, and change the result wildly < 1285532157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always formulate a new theory of physics that works like that < 1285532161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we can't be sure god exists in here < 1285532164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is in fact an argument often posed < 1285532168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, prove that physics is what we describe it to be < 1285532169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, anyway it is just for metals in the metal state. If they aren't greyish (copper and gold are the only ones iirc?) then it might be quantum tunneling < 1285532177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: impossible < 1285532187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's what you were getting at? < 1285532190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1285532193 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So that's why! Now I understand a little bit. < 1285532204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible to be very convincing < 1285532210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can never prove it outright < 1285532213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, I'm not completely sure that is the case for copper. *googles* < 1285532216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, i have a feeling that in *this* universe < 1285532228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a _sizeable_ amount of atheists who would *never* believe < 1285532246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not *rationalists* of course, but *atheists*) < 1285532254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if a voice came out, stated "Run this experiment, this is waht the result would be", etc.? < 1285532254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, not the case for copper < 1285532255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they probably think of themselves as the former) < 1285532261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you don't seem to understand what proof means < 1285532264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copper, osmium (blueish) and gold (yellow) are the only three elemental metals with a natural color other than gray or silver.[3]" < 1285532266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even evolution isn't proven < 1285532277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof is *rock hard* and *completely, mathematically unquestionable* even in theory < 1285532294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1285532302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course very little is actually proven about this universe < 1285532304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything < 1285532306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a huge deal < 1285532314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, i think we'd have a hard time communicating like them < 1285532317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if we knew their language < 1285532321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't know how they *think* < 1285532324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't know how to argue with them < 1285532327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't know how their logic works < 1285532337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'd have a very hard time convincing them of anything < 1285532348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it seems to be different mechanisms for gold and copper < 1285532351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1285532353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the direction rules in Life would lead to some interesting effects. < 1285532361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say everyone has a reincarnation of your (or a specific person's) line of consciousness, then you have failed to take it into account as the entire universe as a whole. Everything is a part of the entire universe as a whole, including by quantum entanglement and warped spacetime geometry and other things. < 1285532382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would only be able to talk to someone if they were in a cardinal line with one of their emitter organs. < 1285532408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: damn, imagine their porn. < 1285532412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how so? < 1285532424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not true, there are non-cardinal spaceships < 1285532425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, knightships < 1285532431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not simple ones. < 1285532437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well okay < 1285532438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1285532443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll bet any sentient organism is a hell of a lot bigger than the knightship! < 1285532444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smallest is the *replicator*, for pete's sake. < 1285532454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it moves at a crawl. < 1285532461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is evidence for micro-evolution and parts of macro-evolution, but that isn't proof, and we can have a lot of things about evolution wrong, that we do not know. Nevertheless, these theories can help even if they are entirely wrong. < 1285532468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, correction: smallest known. There could be other ones. < 1285532468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if this were in b36s23? < 1285532476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it would be all right for very long-distance communications along a well-maintained channel. < 1285532478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: macro-evolution is true. < 1285532489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the universe would be dominated by replicators < 1285532489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is doubt, but it is so small as to fall far below the doubt we have in other things we readily accept. < 1285532495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1285532499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: At least in general. Of course it is possible to have some details wrong. < 1285532504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not really < 1285532508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution isn't very detailed < 1285532509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HL's replicator is pretty common in random soups. < 1285532510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a simple tautology < 1285532514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also, what about the diagonals? Gliders aren't moving in the cardinal directions < 1285532526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, cardinals + diagonals. < 1285532539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you have random mutations as part of reproduction, and you have threats, then obviously mutations that better survive threats will live to reproduce more, passing on this mutation" < 1285532551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"therefore, the offspring of the mutated will outlive the non-mutated, because they have better survival characteristics" < 1285532559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1285532585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : evolution isn't very detailed <-- do you mean "natural selection" with evolution? < 1285532591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1285532595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does everyone else :) < 1285532613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution is just the changes being passed down, natural selection is why it helps :P < 1285532619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither are questionable in any way < 1285532625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, if that is what you mean by "macro-evolution" then obviously it works. But it doesn't mean *everything* actually works that way, even if many things do work that way. < 1285532646 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I read somewhere that in the bleeding edge biology research there is a discussion if natural selection is the only driving force of evolution < 1285532661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's discussion about an awful lot of crap in science :p < 1285532670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about genetic drift then? < 1285532677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah i know < 1285532682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but natural selection IS a driving force < 1285532684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't the only one < 1285532689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think it being the main one is basically assured < 1285532704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never disputed that it was the major one < 1285532711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, sexual selection has long been acknowledged as a non-natural selective force. < 1285532714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it was the only one < 1285532732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm sexual selection being? < 1285532749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm no expert on this, I just remembered reading a few things) < 1285532766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what it says on the tin. One sex selects their mate based on a characteristic with no survival value. < 1285532772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a peacock's tail. < 1285532780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or penis length :P < 1285532790 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1285532853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That selection particularly has no survival value when it's the male doing the selection. < 1285532858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Organisms with the characteristic mate, others don't. < 1285532880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nothing has any relevance in homosexual couplings :P < 1285532886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: humans have, proportionately, the longest penises of any apes. < 1285532887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as, y'know, there's no reproduction. < 1285532893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HA HA SUCKS TO BE APES < 1285532899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, have you measured this? < 1285532903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SUCKS TO BE NON-HUMAN APES < 1285532907 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Who said it was a homosexual coupling? Surely when choosing a female mate you want the one with the smallest penis size :P < 1285532909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE AN APE < 1285532912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was in one of Jared Diamond's books. < 1285532927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, breast size is similarly disproportionate. < 1285532928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pretty sure vaginoplasty does not include ovaroplasty yet :P < 1285532934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ovaroplasty: WORST WORD EVER < 1285532948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Disproportionate? I LIKE disproportionate." < 1285532957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hence the selection. < 1285532992 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just had an idea about creating a python package with different esoteric interpreters in it, allowing you to do stuff like "python esoteric.py brainfuck hello.bf" < 1285532994 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts? < 1285533009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: Hellooooo Esco < 1285533016 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's esco? < 1285533016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual comment: utterly pointless < 1285533021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, I can implement esoteric.py easily: < 1285533025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just execute the rest of the command line < 1285533026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's boring. < 1285533028 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I was wondering actually, does such a thing exist already? < 1285533030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no point having it in one file. < 1285533031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing bad about it, just.. boring < 1285533033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No point at all. < 1285533035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, yes but it sucks < 1285533043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is exactly equivalent to having "brainfuck" be a separate executable. < 1285533043 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean all in one file < 1285533049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even PSOX is more interesting < 1285533049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1285533051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: Then why have it all run with esoteric.py? < 1285533057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just run the interpreters directly?!?! < 1285533063 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but < 1285533065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symlink interpreters into ~/bin; problem solved. < 1285533066 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1285533074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use any executable language. < 1285533088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we're discussing ape penis sizes and discrete universes, stop being on-topic. < 1285533091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Harpyon_ wants a single package deal < 1285533093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Continue. < 1285533110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one package contains a variety of esolang interpreters < 1285533112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you sure our universe isn't discrete? < 1285533113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of thing < 1285533119 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah kinda Sgeo < 1285533129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: very unsure! < 1285533131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on penis size or on discreteness? < 1285533134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more sure that it is discrete < 1285533136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Combine both. < 1285533142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1285533146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ha ha, your penis is only 10^23 cells long." < 1285533157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they can't see cells! < 1285533157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_ < 1285533160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1285533168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they'll have a way to measure cells though < 1285533168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IT WAS A JOKE < 1285533169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can they "see" at all < 1285533170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, they can estimate their dimensions. < 1285533172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1285533174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how can we "see" at all < 1285533180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit hits our eyes < 1285533181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, he has a point. < 1285533183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reports back to brain < 1285533189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a CA, it's more likely that they send out shit < 1285533191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shit comes back < 1285533191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost all collisions in Life are destructive. < 1285533192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hits their eyes < 1285533194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reports back to brain < 1285533195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well there are photons and sensors for them. You would need some sort of "glider gun sun" or something < 1285533196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: naturally < 1285533199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: on *microscopic* scales < 1285533203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that spread gliders everywhere < 1285533210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nobody said it has to be like in this universe < 1285533216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we're basically looking at atoms, remember < 1285533218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not < 1285533222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the large scale < 1285533223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is no need for vision even < 1285533224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, my trying to see created a destructive construction. We all die now. < 1285533226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so we have ageing! < 1285533227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, really large, macro scale < 1285533234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY REALLY REALLY large, macro scale < 1285533238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could easily have a resilient spaceship < 1285533243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can return home after hitting shit < 1285533246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, like Vorpal said < 1285533250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be slow degeneration over time regardless. < 1285533252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"glider gun sun" or something of that sort < 1285533256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Anyway, we're discussing ape penis sizes and discrete universes, stop being on-topic. < 1285533261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like ageing? < 1285533265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes. < 1285533267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: again remember < 1285533270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1285533271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're looking at particles in a vacuum < 1285533275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285533278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing says we have to have vacuum where life is :P < 1285533281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What patterns might be accidentally made that expand endlessly? < 1285533284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may live entirely in an agar! < 1285533285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And destructively? < 1285533287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very complex, subtle agar < 1285533291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an agar nonetheless < 1285533293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, agar being? I forgot < 1285533306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically any material that certain stuff can move around in < 1285533308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stable tiling of the plane. < 1285533309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually, at lightspeed < 1285533315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1285533321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's... not the standard definition. < 1285533325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well true < 1285533326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't really evolve to live in an agar, can they? < 1285533329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's usually what an agar gets you < 1285533336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the agar can be there before they are < 1285533338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think big bang :P < 1285533342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they live in an agar, then it's because we did it < 1285533342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could someone with the esoknowledge go and correct http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fish's blatant misinformation about Befunge? < 1285533343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the standard, boring agar doesn't have c transmission in all directions. < 1285533349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a huge, completely random pattern < 1285533352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUGE, i mean < 1285533352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1285533358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than any of our computers' memories, combined < 1285533363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set it running < 1285533365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope for the best < 1285533368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again if it doesn't work < 1285533372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about the sparse universe model? < 1285533373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we'd want to cheat, but < 1285533378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one thing saying your lang is different from Befunge, and another saying it's different /because it's threaded/ < 1285533378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that could work. < 1285533387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha! < 1285533389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: < 1285533395 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :228| Anyway, we're discussing ape penis sizes and discrete universes, stop being on-topic. < 1285533402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Harpyon_ just reinvented esco a few seconds ago < 1285533405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's active < 1285533409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he/she < 1285533421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, befunge98 have threads < 1285533423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, missed that Harpyon_ was in the channel < 1285533424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I considered to have reinvented PESOIX? < 1285533426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1285533432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or EsoOS? < 1285533441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sparse universe model is nicely near to our universe, actually. < 1285533444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, the idea's too obvious to count as being reinvented < 1285533452 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up. < 1285533460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really. our universe is 3d :P < 1285533461 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, it does? < 1285533461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: you lied! < 1285533464 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1285533472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fish claims to be made by you. However befunge98 have threads. < 1285533474 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never saw anything about that < 1285533476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HAS < 1285533478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HAS DAMMIT < 1285533483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'VE HAD LIKE 48545 YEARS TO LEARN HAD/HAS < 1285533485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HAVE/HAS < 1285533487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in the sense that almost everything is photon-permeable empty space < 1285533493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bah < 1285533495 0 :Kordalien!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1285533495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i want a fun universe < 1285533504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has a way to give alise an aneurseum < 1285533511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can never spell that word < 1285533517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fun, on large scales! < 1285533526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, and with the loadable extension (fingerprint) ATHR it can even get async-multiple-core style threads < 1285533527 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything about threads in the instructions of befunge < 1285533528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aneurysm. < 1285533534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I has a way to give alise an aneurseum ;; just seems like cheezburgr < 1285533535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: are you looking at Befunge-98? < 1285533543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_: http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html < 1285533545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1285533548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just sing... < 1285533548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the command is "t" < 1285533553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not a Funge expert < 1285533556 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides
< 1285533557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, befunge93 is different from befunge98. Befunge98 is rather extended < 1285533559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :116 t Split/98/c Split IP < 1285533578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, from my singing? Good idea < 1285533580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good idea < 1285533624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see /msg < 1285533624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harpyon_, harping on? < 1285533636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh god I think sgeo got stuck in a loop discussing his singing, instead of discussing active worlds < 1285533636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -_- < 1285533651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well.... < 1285533663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just amusing < 1285533671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that was a nasty thing to do though :P < 1285533672 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.6.43.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1285533678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i promise never to do it again < 1285533679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is amused
< 1285533680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't hurt me with sticks < 1285533681 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285533692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hurts alise with sticks ------
< 1285533698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't plan to... < 1285533705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wouldn't call this thing a stick really < 1285533710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Order of the Stick? < 1285533711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it might have the same general shape < 1285533717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is referring to his penis < 1285533725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Freud :Nickname is already in use. < 1285533734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but calling an ICBM a stick is really stretching it < 1285533750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks and covers
< 1285533773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you could perhaps sing in activeworlds? < 1285533784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW does have a voice... thingy < 1285533804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, I didn't plan for that answer < 1285533810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This'll kill it for good. < 1285533849 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1285533853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, there is nobody else in AW to hear Sgeo < 1285533853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, kill which? < 1285533858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the singing or AW? < 1285533863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both :P < 1285533875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285533911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover probably means just AW < 1285533932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats alise (hey it's not a _stick_) -----###
< 1285533971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could have used the saucepan, that would have made it completely unambiguous (as far as I can tell at least) < 1285534049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh god I think sgeo got stuck in a loop discussing his singing, instead of discussing active worlds <-- wait is this good or bad? < 1285534054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm < 1285534061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Life movies would be 1d < 1285534067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since our movies are 2d :) < 1285534075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus i can't think how they could see in 2d) < 1285534080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have no idea < 1285534086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1D Life porn < 1285534086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they could see in 2d < 1285534094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffering and pixellated < 1285534097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how, though < 1285534105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (plus i can't think how they could see in 2d) <--- hm < 1285534113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And any 1d displays would need to have some thickness, I think < 1285534119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does that mean that we are 4D but can only see in 3D? < 1285534128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1285534135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be awesome if it did < 1285534138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, it probably wouldn't display individual cells < 1285534156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we see in 2d < 1285534163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with rudimentary depth perception < 1285534177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some people lack depth perception and they see in true 2d. these people hate stairs) < 1285534180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose their eye had a sort of quantum unit that they can't see lower down then < 1285534180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, really, they do) < 1285534191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cover one eye and look at things. < 1285534195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean one-eyed person? < 1285534199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1285534202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even without my glasses, I have feeble depth perception, not none < 1285534203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, some people actually lack depth perception entirely < 1285534206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not true, due to focus < 1285534209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well okay < 1285534214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an actual thing < 1285534217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're born with it oc < 1285534218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ofc < 1285534223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bit of care, you can make your hand into a cardboard cutout! < 1285534236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try running quickly with one eye closed < 1285534237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so they have like shutter = f11? Otherwise they would get blur out of focus like everyone else < 1285534238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scary experience < 1285534241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything looms < 1285534249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm not sure exactly < 1285534253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, that's the default < 1285534261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know they they literally have no depth perceptions, and stairs are their worst enemy < 1285534262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what? < 1285534265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glasses give me an incredible sensation of actually living in a 3d world < 1285534270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1285534272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I have one good eye and one terrible eye < 1285534273 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only pinhole cameras are close to hiperfocal < 1285534278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, okay < 1285534281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when I wear glasses, I get use of both eyes < 1285534292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get everything more than, say, 30 cm a bit blurred without glasses < 1285534298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hmm, my bad eye can still see this screen ok < 1285534300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I had that idea about Lifeforms using spaceships to advertise their fitness. < 1285534303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really change the 3D perception < 1285534314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a room away, I can't read text < 1285534324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: indeed < 1285534327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it .. looks different, somehow < 1285534328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since advanced synthesis facilities have huge survival value. < 1285534336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1285534347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi, I'm the Yoyodone Synthesis and Manufacturing Corporation -- but you can call me Yoyo." < 1285534356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Corporation's Main Facility < 1285534358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can synthesise a caterpillar! < 1285534365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wanna see my SECONDARY facility? ;)" < 1285534366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mate with me! < 1285534376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can synthesize quantum bombs by accident! < 1285534397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET US COLLIDE OUR DANGLY REPRODUCTION PARTICLES < 1285534404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how would the "logic" for decisions be done? < 1285534408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wat? < 1285534420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know < 1285534425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "thinking" so to speak < 1285534427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1285534429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all organisms think. < 1285534431 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can kill a single bacteria in range of 100km < 1285534434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have evolved < 1285534435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well okay < 1285534443 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask me to do it < 1285534446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for basic decision-making, uhh, you can do "conditionals" in life < 1285534446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're hoping for thinkers ;) < 1285534457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1285534460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What my mind read into that ;): So we can mate with them ;) < 1285534462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, how precise is it? < 1285534488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose that life exists easily on a small scale, but thought needs a large-scale.. oh wait, that's the case in this universe < 1285534491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, anyway none of us would be close enough to be able to verify it :P < 1285534513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're turning into me again < 1285534517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life doesn't exist on THAT small a scale < 1285534524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like what we look at in Golly :P < 1285534541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1285534555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a bacteria in GOL (if possible) would be enormous < 1285534561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need a name for a unit of life in GOL-Universe < 1285534591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, assuming that such a concept necessarily makes sense < 1285534605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is lagoon's (sp?) ant TC btw? < 1285534611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "organism" < 1285534614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I think something cellular would arise. < 1285534617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: langton's, and no way. < 1285534622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it repeats. always < 1285534632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/LangtonsAnt.png < 1285534633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the corridors < 1285534634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not proved iirc? < 1285534635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1285534640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The universality of Langton's ant was proven in 2000." < 1285534640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1285534643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i'm wrong < 1285534644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought multiple ants interacted in a universal way. < 1285534647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worldview destroyed < 1285534647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1285534648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can do organism-level science, presumably? < 1285534658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be what they are talking about. < 1285534661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2000, Gajardo et al. showed a construction that calculates any boolean circuit using the trajectory of a single instance of Langton's ant.[2] Thus, it would be possible to simulate a Turing machine using the ant's trajectory for computation. This means that the ant is capable of universal computation." < 1285534664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1285534665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared now < 1285534668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very scared < 1285534687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed, I thought it always settled into that repeating pattern < 1285534715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also: < 1285534717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All finite initial configurations tested eventually converge to the same repetitive pattern suggesting that the "highway" is an attractor of Langton's ant, but no one has been able to prove that this is true for all such initial configurations. It is only known that the ant's trajectory is always unbounded regardless of the initial configuration" < 1285534777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries a lot
< 1285534795 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? < 1285534802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's not that bad. < 1285534825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING < 1285534833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I realized something before alise did < 1285534836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earlier < 1285534847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that hasn't been helping] < 1285534908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently, he had a bet on that LA wasn't TC. < 1285534923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what thing? < 1285534951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That globally reversible CA implied that no non-stilllife became a stilllife < 1285534967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw if life ever evolves in GOL, what are the chances of us realising it is life < 1285534973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life? high < 1285534975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intelligent life? low < 1285534990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you mean < 1285534997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will probably recognise that intelligent life is certainly something complex, but unless we've been following the evolution, we will probably see it more as a huge machine < 1285535007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if we have been watching the evolution, it would be hard for us to recognise what is intelligent and what is not < 1285535015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it takes way too long to ever observe this stuff on a meaningful scale < 1285535025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and how would we be able to tell if something was life at all? < 1285535035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way we do in this universe < 1285535039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, actually, it can happen with some caveats. < 1285535039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic life isn't *that* gigantic < 1285535043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if we see it doing experiments that are sensitive to low-level things, we'd know that they discovered low-level physics? < 1285535047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since GoL cells are quite useful < 1285535050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to stupid quarks < 1285535052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well here we tend to look for carbon < 1285535060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carbon is irrelevant < 1285535064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indee < 1285535066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed* < 1285535071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-carbon based lifeforms are possible even in this universe < 1285535074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in what sense? < 1285535075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes < 1285535087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large scale order would be a pretty obvious clue < 1285535100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that is, building life out of GoL cells is a lot easier than building life out of quarks < 1285535101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, would there end up being "elements" in their universe possibly? < 1285535104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since GoL cells actually make sense ;) < 1285535104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what exactly is life? Isn't it just a complex machine? < 1285535104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're *possible*, just highly improbable. < 1285535112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or a simple machine. < 1285535117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would imply a .. weird level of simulation I think < 1285535118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to interact with its environment, probably < 1285535120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is unlikely < 1285535122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the turing machine isn't life < 1285535126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it just sits there and computes < 1285535130 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1285535132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turing machine that moved around and did stuff would be life < 1285535138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the idea of attoscale engineering for the Lifeforms. < 1285535153 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ni < 1285535154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does that mean stuff like a lego bot that moves around is alive? < 1285535161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure. < 1285535164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the knight who say ni < 1285535168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not organic life, but it's as much alive as an amoeba is < 1285535168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF < 1285535171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IF, it reproduces. < 1285535175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asexually or sexually. < 1285535175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah good point < 1285535186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so what about crossing a hourse and a donkey... < 1285535189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an organism is a machine that moves around, does stuff, and reproduces < 1285535191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that dead then? < 1285535194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would need lots of shielding and carefully controlled inputs. < 1285535196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shut up :) < 1285535205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an organism is a machine that moves around, does stuff, and that either reproduces or is the descendent of something that does < 1285535212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, though I guess you could argue that it's cells are still alive < 1285535217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can divide < 1285535229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what do you mean? < 1285535244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. Minitube doesn't work < 1285535246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, attocicuitry. < 1285535259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "atto"? < 1285535270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay, so what building a lego bot that could, given a carefully sorted set of lego elements, build a copy of itself? < 1285535274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, really effing small. < 1285535287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cicuitry! < 1285535289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p30 glider technology small. < 1285535298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think we need a proper name for cell/generation level stuff < 1285535304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in a universe of lego bricks, sure :P < 1285535312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well < 1285535313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I would go for "atto". < 1285535316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to sort from raw materials < 1285535323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think i'd mandate that it has to sort the bricks itself < 1285535326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even if it doesn't < 1285535327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very close < 1285535336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, we can't produce some stuff from raw materials. Mostly some amino acids < 1285535341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how big are p30s again? < 1285535346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we need other animals or plants to do that < 1285535348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we eat them < 1285535353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus we are not alive? < 1285535357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, QB shuttles and pentadecathlons. < 1285535360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to _talk_ to them < 1285535373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: link me to a p30, i've lost my sense of scale < 1285535376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *you can't* < 1285535384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Gosper gun? < 1285535384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ships containing these beings would probably be large < 1285535386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for sorting the bricks I guess an NXT have the power to do image processing < 1285535391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does large imply slow? < 1285535392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah. noted < 1285535395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no. < 1285535409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1285535410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1285535413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big in both dimensions, sure < 1285535416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big in one dimension, probably not < 1285535420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but colour sensor + brick sorting has been done < 1285535423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would they have any incentive to go into space? < 1285535430 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrmbwab < 1285535434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe if the universe started with a random soup < 1285535450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would be some evidence of amazing technology out there < 1285535462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, did you follow my earlier stuff on resource competition? < 1285535472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, um, competing for space < 1285535475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space is isotropic, and it's their only resource. < 1285535484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really < 1285535485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food < 1285535490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, food? < 1285535495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not in Life. < 1285535496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it need that < 1285535509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise was hoping we'd design the basic lifeforms to need food < 1285535518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1285535527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i know there's perpetual motion machines, but < 1285535528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1285535529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't design life, but it could evolve to have food < 1285535536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1285535542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have an infinite energy generator in you < 1285535545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have one less weak point < 1285535549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll probably be a lot smallre < 1285535551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller < 1285535551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, getting an eternal glider stream is *trivial*. < 1285535553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you rely on food < 1285535564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with ultra-sparse streams. < 1285535594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to solve their overcrowding problem once they're intelligent, they build ships? < 1285535600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of fighting, like they want to? < 1285535611 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1285535614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a matter of a reflector and a stream splitter. < 1285535618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, humans still fight < 1285535636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may not ever decide it's wrong to kill < 1285535663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humanity still hasn't < 1285535681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/alise/DebbieDowner/ < 1285535690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DebbieActuallyRealer < 1285535706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1285535714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is debbie? < 1285535794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Downer < 1285535809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character's name is a slang phrase which refers to someone who frequently adds bad news and negative feelings to a gathering, thus bringing down the mood of everyone around them. Dratch's character would usually appear at social gatherings and interrupt the conversation to voice negative opinions and pronouncements. She was especially concerned about the rate of Feline AIDS, a subject that she would bring up on more than one occasion. < 1285535812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it predates that, but < 1285535817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't get a better link at a pinch for the slang < 1285535849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1285535878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize it was a slang term >.> < 1285535902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, incidentally, I don't think murder will be very easy once small-scale self-sufficiency evolves. < 1285535914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attobombs! < 1285535929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be obsessed < 1285535943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that all easy methods of killing people involve disrupting their internal supply apparatus. < 1285535973 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285535982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If each cell has a mitochondrion producing an unlimited glider stream, there *is* no internal supply chain. < 1285535986 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285535995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Simple: Obliterate the cells. < 1285536001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill the mitochondrion < 1285536003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire out a ton of fucking gliders. < 1285536011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sparse sparse sparse < 1285536015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since this is at a pretty large scale: A TON OF FUCKING GLIDERS. < 1285536026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or, if you don't mind suicide: < 1285536031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply walk right in to them. < 1285536038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case your firing mechanism is so dense it's an easy target. < 1285536039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no force stopping that, unlike in real life. < 1285536049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pass right through them -- and destroy both your internal systems. < 1285536058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, another thing: how does movement work? < 1285536066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiply. < 1285536069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gemini-esque replication? < 1285536079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1285536093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg, that would be cool, having two identical intelligent lifeforms existing at one point, then one killing the other. < 1285536108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other submitting to it. < 1285536152 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285536160 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything froze < 1285536257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285536265 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there'd be a quantum of movement? < 1285536275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate :P < 1285536326 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't easily duplicate yourself from current position to current position +0.5 < 1285536356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comes with discreteness. < 1285536373 0 :Sgeo!~ubuntu@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285536384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible they'd be gradual spaceships < 1285536393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's discreteness at a different scale < 1285536394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically stretching a bit to the right, yet still staying stable < 1285536396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as movement goes, I'd assume either fixed lifeforms or UC replicators. < 1285536398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then shrinking and lobbing off your end < 1285536408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a UC replicator. < 1285536416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like single-celled organisms do < 1285536424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uc replicator? i doubt that < 1285536439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd surely have an optimised way of just moving into a new version of themselves < 1285536441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. construct copy, then destroy original. < 1285536444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1285536447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're naturally stationary, but eventually build ships that allow movement < 1285536451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not UC based, of course. < 1285536456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure lifeforms would be TC, but anyway < 1285536458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same principle. < 1285536463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask me, the stretch-and-shrink one is the coolest < 1285536472 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-70-79.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285536473 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1285536473 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1285536474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine copy/pasting some additional columns of a lifeform and having it still work stably! < 1285536482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just having the end blow itself up < 1285536486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that* would be *amazingly cool* < 1285536498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be cool is communication *cries* < 1285536501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, reminds me of some experiments I read about. < 1285536527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean that the organism is <>, and we make it <=>. < 1285536530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how do you know they'll even care about whether god exists or not? < 1285536536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sort of, i was thinking something even cooler < 1285536552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should they have to care? < 1285536570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might want answers to questions of science < 1285536579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's <,'^":> and we make it, say, <,'^"::> then .<'^"::> (where . is blank space), then it morphs back into .<,'^":> < 1285536581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1285536582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can answer attoscientific questions < 1285536592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if all the ,'^":s are the same, you don't even have to morph < 1285536596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they have no reason to believe us. < 1285536610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could provide experiments < 1285536623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in fact, demonstrate something that they can't build themselves < 1285536660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's very reminiscent of some embryology experiments. < 1285536664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd have to learn their science before doing anything too crazy < 1285536667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the hhgttg books, we had a bot-driven competition game where it spewed out 5 lines of text from one of the books, and the user who said fastestly which book it was from got a point. < 1285536680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see, i'm a genius < 1285536692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is bullshit < 1285536695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how do they know we're not lying? < 1285536701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they trust us? < 1285536712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they know they're not just reading shit into our messages, that it's actually natural phenomena? < 1285536712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285536729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, let's suppose we managed to get across the way of simulating the GoL to them after they'd built the LGC. < 1285536730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that last point is very, very significant I guess < 1285536744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could act like a supersmart one of them < 1285536748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send off the same signals < 1285536750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we'd be Einstein. < 1285536754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not God < 1285536757 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285536759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they might still hate us. < 1285536761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except able to ... bleh < 1285536762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might still question us. < 1285536766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might still "kill" us. < 1285536768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like JESUS < 1285536770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SCIENCE < 1285536779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :science, pronounced "sins" < 1285536786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing is i can see how science would be pronounced like that < 1285536790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could see that the model is working, and at least get a huge leap in technological progress. < 1285536796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sci = si, en = n, ce = s < 1285536812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they can figure out that stuff themselves < 1285536817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, way to kill the sense of achievement and progress < 1285536818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they can't < 1285536822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. < 1285536822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they can't < 1285536825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's the point of research? they can just tell us." < 1285536833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's true < 1285536833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if they can't figure it out < 1285536835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't test it < 1285536837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1285536838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly < 1285536845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if they can't figure it out but can test it then they just can't understand it) < 1285536848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so it's pointless telling them anyway) < 1285536850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we might run a cosy attoscale manufacturing industry. < 1285536858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, killing their scientific drive is a very bad idea < 1285536859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might not be able to prove Riemann's hypothesis, but if someone gave us a proof, we could check it < 1285536865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't you read TMoPI? :P < 1285536865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are various things only we could synthesise. < 1285536876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "oh, yeah, we really want a garden of eden pattern please" < 1285536876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1285536880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a proof that not everything is synthesisable < 1285536883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gardens of eden aren't < 1285536898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the synthesis question doesn't apply to everything < 1285536915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It applies to stable circuitry. < 1285536966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd be unable to answer many questions of things higher than attoscience < 1285536970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lightspeed telegraph would totally fuck them up < 1285536973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHY IS THIS POSSIBLY WHYYYY" < 1285536976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*POSSIBLE < 1285536990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, great evidence for our claims < 1285536996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, boring! < 1285537010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have a puppet magic man who sells attocircuits. < 1285537037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of attobombs? < 1285537042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to make an attobomb
< 1285537051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attotech is *extremely* unstable. < 1285537056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe they're naturally stationary, but eventually build ships that allow movement <-- since Life has no relativity, a pattern cannot just be put inside a moving ship to move it. i think they'd at most be using ships as shields against the surroundings while they do the movement themselves. either that or they would use replication in a star trek transportery way < 1285537063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not really < 1285537069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightspeed communication is possible in this universe :P < 1285537077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1285537088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to a single photon destroying things. < 1285537106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spacefillers would be fun though < 1285537111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural disasters < 1285537112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, we can manufacture ash shielding for them < 1285537118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fast, too, from their perspective < 1285537128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is completely unsynthesisable. < 1285537145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spacefillers are hopelessly fragile. < 1285537148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1285537151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we can manufacture them. < 1285537152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As are dense agars in general. < 1285537153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHA < 1285537161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEEL OUR WRATH < 1285537170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd have some interesting effects. < 1285537178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they haven't discovered the telegraph yet... < 1285537179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like a firework than a bomb, though. < 1285537184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best thing is < 1285537187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just look like a black hole to them < 1285537195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no spaceship of any kind could come back < 1285537197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except at the edges, i guess < 1285537208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those things synthesizable? < 1285537209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would grow for a while and smash into a glider, then throw off a huge wave of gliders as the agar burns. < 1285537211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where looking at it would just make you see black too < 1285537214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it'd stop expanding < 1285537215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1285537219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOKING AT THE CORNER would stop it expanding < 1285537223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as your vision-ship destroys the mechanism < 1285537225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't come back < 1285537232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the sides would do the same. < 1285537237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha true < 1285537238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1285537239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it hit someone, could it kill them? < 1285537245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1285537253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only if they're very unresilient. < 1285537266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know how resiliant life is < 1285537267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be destroyed before it got large enough to give off a very large pulse. < 1285537273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, we do. < 1285537276 0 :Harpyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon_ < 1285537281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may grow up in a universe where there are no stray gliders < 1285537299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they could synthesise a spacefiller by accident < 1285537301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1285537301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also one which can't support life. < 1285537303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think unresilient life would soon be evolved away < 1285537303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1285537308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said stray < 1285537308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could ACTUALLY HAVE an LHC apocalypse < 1285537314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they collide a bunch of shit < 1285537318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes chaotic < 1285537324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, FFS SPACEFILLERS AREN'T A THREAT. < 1285537332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i know that < 1285537334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant a non-spacefiller threat < 1285537345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their lhc could literally produce a killing machine < 1285537348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is *awesome* < 1285537369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil madman with attomanufacturing builds seedship that, at some distance, synthesizes spacefiller < 1285537371 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I assume they wouldn't want to fire massive glider waves. < 1285537381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: all in the name of science < 1285537385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why call it attotech? < 1285537387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nanotech. < 1285537388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd want to collide single gliders and probe what comes off. < 1285537391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally what we call nanotech. < 1285537394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no. Nano is too small. < 1285537400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. < 1285537406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nano is too big < 1285537407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our nanotech is bigger than what they'd consider attotech. < 1285537408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*large < 1285537411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285537415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're both using it to mean different things < 1285537418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stupid people < 1285537421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is proton-scale. < 1285537422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is using it to mean what we look at < 1285537427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is using it to mean the size of the people < 1285537432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not protons < 1285537433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life has no protons < 1285537433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is? < 1285537436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL cells are more like atoms < 1285537436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1285537449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for the Lifeforms < 1285537458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for the lifeforms < 1285537460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atoms would be constellations of still-lifes. < 1285537463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just won't develop subatomic physics < 1285537465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it wouldn't exist < 1285537480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL cells interact in more complex ways than protons, imo < 1285537486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ignoring how fucked up protons are in our world < 1285537509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we explained b3s23, they might realize how SIMPLE it is < 1285537515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no < 1285537515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be enough to get them to believe us < 1285537523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285537529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless they built a simulator of themselves. < 1285537560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be their model for particle physics, but not for macroscopic interactions. < 1285537592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1285537595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biologists don't use quarks as a model < 1285537596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1285537600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the same reason we use Newtonian mechanics for most things. < 1285537711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose we discover that they do accidentally create an LHC-Apocolypse < 1285537714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we intervene? < 1285537800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not likely we could < 1285537805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There won't *be* an LHC-apocalypse. < 1285537806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd be running it so fast that it'd be over in seconds < 1285537816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since apocalyptic material probably runs at generation-scale < 1285537823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i don't think so < 1285537833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think being the father figure helps < 1285537839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could have some software that detects potential patterns < 1285537846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pauses it when discovered < 1285537849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would be *angry* < 1285537853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have that kind of power, why not give them everything? < 1285537861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we did give them everything, they would lose all purpose in life < 1285537867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we're not smart enough to give them everything < 1285537869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if there was a destructive pattern, we'd have noticed it by now. < 1285537874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1285537877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't die naturally < 1285537882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's already close to paradise < 1285537916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially, since I have pointed out innumerable times, the LSC collides single spaceships. < 1285537916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know what drives they have.. probably reproduction, largely < 1285537940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but the Insane Large Spaceship Collider doesn't < 1285537946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: erm, i mean rather higher level drives < 1285537954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, evolution wouldn't go normally < 1285537957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they *never die without a threat* < 1285537967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd be evolving against danger, but... < 1285537972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they'd have nearly as big a sex drive as us < 1285537980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, neither do bacteria. < 1285537981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm talking about the drive to achieve < 1285537982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :science < 1285537982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1285538005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate to keep mentioning it but *giving people everything does not make them happy* < 1285538013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes them *extremely bored* < 1285538031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me everything I need to be able to stay on the computer 24/7 < 1285538048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so the Singularity...? < 1285538059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...needs to be better than that. < 1285538070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's more intelligent than us, it will be able to grasp why we think this. < 1285538076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Relevant: The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. < 1285538098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, it has torture-rape in the first chapter; but it's also a very interesting portrait of a post-Singularity scenario gone wrong. < 1285538107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone right, imo < 1285538118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that just means you are *severely* fucked up. < 1285538130 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1285538200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you should read it. < 1285538204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/ < 1285538205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html < 1285538300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, please tell me that wasn't in response to the torture-rape. < 1285538314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it almost certainly wasn't. < 1285538327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: it's not actually rape. More a super-kink.) < 1285538332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION breathes a sigh of relief.
< 1285538346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but it definitely isn't a utopia; anyway, read it, there's no point in me spoiling it all with qualifiers. < 1285538351 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285538353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a terribly long book < 1285538375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how it isn't a utopia < 1285538387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: again, this only points at you having serious, serious issues. < 1285538401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, FWIW, the tone changes significantly in chapter 2. < 1285538406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this doesn't mean that chapter 1 isn't a necessary part of the plot) < 1285538438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Culture isn't post-Singularity in the strictest sense, is it? < 1285538453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't read it, but i don't think so < 1285538465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the Minds are extremely advanced, but still comprehensible. < 1285538468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably a lot more healthy than post-TMoPI-Change. < 1285538471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Excession showed. < 1285538473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, read the damn novel. < 1285538477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks for the spoiler :P < 1285538479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing so. < 1285538486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really a spoiler. < 1285538581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what a non-atto bomb would be like
< 1285538591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides boring < 1285538597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: destructive. < 1285538600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it makes them *extremely bored* <-- except when "everything" includes various flash games :P < 1285538620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, dot action 2 forever plus an irc server would be a pretty good afterlife < 1285538631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just your vision with those two, you can only show one or the other or show both split-screened < 1285538636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all you can feel is a keyboard < 1285538638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd sign up for that < 1285538649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, yes, it has torture-rape in the first chapter; but it's also a very interesting portrait of a post-Singularity scenario gone wrong. <-- what book/film/whatever? < 1285538660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/ < 1285538661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html < 1285538663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1285538667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can buy a dead tree version, but *eh* < 1285538668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall avoid reading it then < 1285538668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many guys wants to win a big spider by playing solitaire card? < 1285538680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not unintellectual or anything. < 1285538688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even squicky < 1285538836 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285539032 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1285539042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pondering if they'd ever detect exotic spaceships from space < 1285539048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the random soup universe) < 1285539065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But such things would come about so rarely, and would tend to be destroyed on their way... < 1285539078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random soup universe would be unlikely to get life any time soon :P < 1285539126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could they invent writing? What would it look like < 1285539153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, remember what I said a while ago about advertisement to mates? < 1285539164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaguely < 1285539204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could they invent writing? What would it look like < 1285539209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff that does stuff to vision gliders. < 1285539219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not impossible that making exotic ships would be used to advertise that a Lifeform had very good synthesis organs. < 1285539222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if we have a sun model, stuff that does stuff to the light-ships < 1285539231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, synthesis organs < 1285539236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wanna synthesise, baby?" < 1285539241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was thinking more about natural exotic spaceships
< 1285539251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To help them work out more of the laws of physics < 1285539257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, more like hands in general. < 1285539265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I reading TMoPI again... < 1285539279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kills alise
< 1285539281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well, they might get the occasional exotic from space. < 1285539329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how rarely would exotics even form in space? And survive to hit the area where life is < 1285539333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where that soup catalogue was.
< 1285539350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we start from a big bang scenario, < 1285539358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unlikely that there will be anything interesting in space. < 1285539361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha imagine being the space agency < 1285539366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now... we will venture into the blackness." < 1285539368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten years later < 1285539371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We went there. It's black." < 1285539381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a solution to overcrowding! < 1285539416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a soup scenario, there may be valuable attotechnology in space < 1285539423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovering it would be a challenge though < 1285539424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no. < 1285539445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try slinging a glider at the Turing Machine in Golly's collection. < 1285539461 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it! < 1285539465 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will destroooooy it! < 1285539467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In a soup scenario, there may be valuable attotechnology in space < 1285539472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like abraham lincoln's head, too. < 1285539476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will never be found. < 1285539479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, could be found < 1285539483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think they'd get bored after a while < 1285539486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even as immortals < 1285539506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, http://www.conwaylife.com/soup/ < 1285539521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying it would be destroyed quickly? < 1285539521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we just fill infinite space with true randomness, the utopian civilisation exists somewhere, right from the start. :) < 1285539532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i'm saying getting ahold of it would take a journey < 1285539534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a journey would take too long < 1285539543 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285539552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they'd have no way of knowing where to journey to < 1285539557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless we told them >.>) < 1285539580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that census doesn't actually *have* any spaceships outside of the glider and main series. < 1285539589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/soup/img/obj73851.png long integral, also known as "S" < 1285539593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid name :P < 1285539595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(long integral that is) < 1285539618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Sgeo just has a really strong desire to play god and curse poor sentient beings with his warped version of paradise < 1285539649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not giving them paradise. I don't know enough of their science < 1285539674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, averting the apocalypse would be worthwhile since we don't want to lose the whole simulation. < 1285539687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is no small apocalyptic pattern, so. < 1285539731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apocalpyse-detection heuristics! < 1285539760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure they have nothing like an atomic bomb < 1285539762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, did you know that Gosper guns can be chained? < 1285539765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cells are too weak and unstable < 1285539775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either it's big and slow enough for them to disarm it, or it's harmless < 1285539779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a number of lifeforms started dying in a circular fashion... < 1285539805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in b36s23 the replicator... < 1285539838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can pretty easily get an arbitrarily large number of p30 columns very closely spaced. < 1285539838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would probably be formed soon enough to prevent intelligent life from forming < 1285539859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it hits something, it would be... very destructive. < 1285539879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The replicator, or the chained Gosper guns? < 1285539897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't believe the creativity of a student in a test situation. For example, one of the abbreviations was "fax," which *really* stands for "facsimile." However, various Comp 4'ers said it stood for: < 1285539903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Fiber-optic Aided Xeroxing < 1285539908 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Frequency Automatic X-rays < 1285539912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Fast A** Xeroxing < 1285539936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh, imagine whoever discovers that < 1285539938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the remorse! < 1285539946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chained Gospers? < 1285539949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1285539952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am become Death, destroyer of cells. < 1285539975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that they can disintegrate easily? < 1285539985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An incredibly unstable construction... but a deadly one." < 1285539995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reactions when they hit things tend to fling gliders back up the stream. < 1285540000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil madman takes a ship into space. Evil madmen makes the Chained Gosper device < 1285540028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's weird how resilient the organisms would be. < 1285540039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because microscopic particles are so damn *weak*. < 1285540072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1285540095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that their vision and weapons both use the same mechanism. < 1285540097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to start a website about this stuff. < 1285540101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's deeply interesting. < 1285540128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we could communicate with them and tell them about general relativity and quantum mechanics < 1285540131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd laugh their asses off < 1285540134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wow, your universe is retarded." < 1285540164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could write some of it down on LifeWiki. < 1285540177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, it's more interesting than a few pages < 1285540190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION helped :D
< 1285540198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A topic on the forum? < 1285540210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking a separate mini-site/wiki :P < 1285540264 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285540265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we have COLORS < 1285540269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collaborative blog? < 1285540270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have RAINBOWS < 1285540289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, they might have weird.. things < 1285540290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, different properties of glider returns? < 1285540293 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285540298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: perhaps < 1285540303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can easily have a little wiki/blog combo < 1285540313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so deeply interesting as to be regularly updated, but < 1285540381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On their own, what models would they come up with for the creation of the Universe? < 1285540395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who says they will < 1285540406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, from a scientific standpoint, not from whatever ideas they evolve with < 1285540406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, they live forever! < 1285540414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling religion would be a lot less prominent < 1285540426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably nothing < 1285540426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1285540429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense we didn't create anything < 1285540432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, they're not going to live forever unless they develop a morality involving not killing eachother < 1285540432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we started at a given state < 1285540438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly a state with predecessors < 1285540442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we started simulating < 1285540449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no first point in time < 1285540454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can extend it back to any predecessor < 1285540462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there's no competition for resources, really < 1285540464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why kill? < 1285540475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Competition for space < 1285540476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For mates < 1285540480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relating to this "no-creation" thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis) < 1285540484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there's infinite space. < 1285540485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem? < 1285540504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But given a finite amount of time, only a small amount of space is accessible < 1285540508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no reason that they can't fuck one after another < 1285540515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't humans :P < 1285540528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: given a finite amount of time, an arbitrary amount of space is accessible. < 1285540534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where's the evolutionary pressure? < 1285540555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's very little. < 1285540557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you talk some more. < 1285540568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, space. < 1285540570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is likely we would have to populate space with evil killers. < 1285540572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they won't ever actually evolve intelligence without divine intervention? < 1285540577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's literally the only resource to fight over. < 1285540577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give them an evolutionary sex drive < 1285540588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some space is better than other space. < 1285540596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's unlikely < 1285540606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different sections of space could have different laws of physics! < 1285540607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, corpses in the way? < 1285540609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drive everyone mad! < 1285540637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: destroy them < 1285540639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, dying is unlikely < 1285540644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sectors < 1285540650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of a certain size of cells < 1285540652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kills B. < 1285540653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do think the best idea is to put a lot of threats in < 1285540657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how < 1285540657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sectors are given rules randomly < 1285540685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, by firing a high-speed glider assault? < 1285540715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can snag the brain, the target is doomed. < 1285540723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is infinite space with superluminal travel, there is no need for anyone to ever be dead or eat anything anymore. Game of Life satisfies the first, but not the second. < 1285540726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil killers that can only be killed with attotechnology < 1285540758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION regrets bringing up attotech in the first place.
< 1285540765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1285540788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The independent power supply thing is interesting, though. < 1285540802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, by firing a high-speed glider assault? < 1285540804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is how to figure out how to make killers non-evil somehow..... it requires a use of relative morality depending on circumstances and the universe model, and even more confusing things..... < 1285540806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they evolve such killing mechanisms? < 1285540809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have nothing to fight over < 1285540816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they don't have to fight over space unless there's corpses) < 1285540823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if there aren't any threats, there is no death, and thus no corpses) < 1285540831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this means they'll basically *never* adapt to anything < 1285540838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i think you'd have to put a bunch of natural threats < 1285540844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastards guns that fire huge columns rapidly < 1285540847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to force evolution to happen < 1285540849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Langton's Loops? < 1285540859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cell gets surrounded pretty quickly. < 1285540863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it < 1285540864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you could somehow do fake superluminal travel, maybe < 1285540869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you start from a big bang scenario and let threats evolve, but seriously, even with seriously dilated time nobody's that patient!) < 1285540872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a simple gun, could they learn to survive? < 1285540877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By slowing everything < 1285540957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, non-sparse soup? < 1285540975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that space isn't necessarily habitable? < 1285540990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: basically, an utterly chaotic initial configuration < 1285541001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you hope it goes just right and ends up with little planets with nice aliens on them < 1285541016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not only incredibly unlikely with the fragility and tendency to form still life that atomic-level Life has, < 1285541017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If space truly is infinite, no need to hope < 1285541020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is also really boring. < 1285541027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: repeating pattern, Q.E.D. < 1285541028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not true < 1285541031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probability 1 != has happened < 1285541036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, ok, it *has* happened < 1285541047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but technically, you could get a repeating pattern generated totally randomly across infinite space :) < 1285541059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a *REALLY* interesting thought experiment: < 1285541074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine an infinite CA space. < 1285541089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that we have filled it lazily -- i.e. not computed until we look at that place -- with randomness. < 1285541103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This randomness is the kind that has produced civilisations everywhere (just not where we're looking). < 1285541112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, we have an algorithm that can simulate one part of space and keep the rest consistent, < 1285541119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if we looked at another part, we'd get what the state would be at this generation. < 1285541126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now suppose we point our camera at somewhere without civilisations. < 1285541138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we kept looking back at a civilisation, we'd see it develop, people live, etc.; "shit happening". < 1285541147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we could look away, and if we look back again, it'd be the same as if we didn't look away. < 1285541155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *they are not computed* while we are looking away. < 1285541165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they still conscious and alive in these periods? < 1285541181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. They have false memories implanted. < 1285541185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1285541186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's metaphysical < 1285541189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably false < 1285541197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consciousness is a byproduct of thinking. yes? < 1285541211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you're saying it's a metaphysical entity < 1285541217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i don't think you want to say < 1285541232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the snapshots we take are exactly identical whether our computer runs it or not < 1285541242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, the computation is still "done" < 1285541244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the results are viewable < 1285541247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not actually computed on our machines < 1285541255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, they are actually conscious *despite us not computing them at all* < 1285541257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis < 1285541319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Hashlife. < 1285541324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically how it works. < 1285541329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ex-fucking-actly. < 1285541333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xactly. < 1285541339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is *so fucking cool*. < 1285541354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually *manages to legitimatise some form of Platonism*. < 1285541379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1285541392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you simulate a universe on a computer. Obviously this is just repeated application of a function of some sort. You're not doing anything unique. The initial state, and the answer to each successive application of the function, is a fact, whether you compute it or not. < 1285541397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore: what does it matter if you compute it or not? < 1285541404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computation isn't "privileged"; it doesn't GIVE an answer. < 1285541408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is already there. < 1285541415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have made a camera. But you have not created a universe. < 1285541418 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1285541424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether you simulate it or not, the fact that the function has answers means *the universe already exists*. < 1285541433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course this is all unprovable philosophical twaddle. < 1285541437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's also beautiful. < 1285541458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the simulation argument, except you say "why the fuck do we need to be simulated at all?". < 1285541468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this also imply that all self-consistent fiction is true? < 1285541481 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285541487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not true in our universe, but... in a way, yes. < 1285541496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I interpret it is closer to "*we* aren't even really 'true'". < 1285541510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're just Platonic, not-actually-changing mathematical structures... < 1285541520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1285541524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then although that function is a "fact" about time in that structure, < 1285541528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not voluntarily. < 1285541529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not really "real" at all. < 1285541537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See you. < 1285541542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're real relative to us < 1285541554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye :( < 1285541558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1285541559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Phantom_Hoover < 1285541559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: < 1285541560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sexyloop[11] (2007): Sexyloop is a modification of Evoloop in which collisions often result in transfer of genetic material between loops. This increases diversity in evolution of new species of loops. < 1285541564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evoloop[9] (1999): An extension of the SDSR loop, Evoloop is capable of interaction with neighboring loops as well as of evolution. Often, the greatest selection pressure in a colony of Evoloops is the competition for space, and natural selection favors the smallest functional loop present. Further studies demonstrated more complexity than originally thought in the Evoloop system.[10] < 1285541568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Bye. ^^^ ZOMGZ < 1285541570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have any philosophical discussions without me! < 1285541574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Competition for space. < 1285541581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're fucking right. < 1285541584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius bastard. < 1285541593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sexyloop is annoying, since I can't find the spec for it. < 1285541612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, to make enemies to increase pressure for intelligence < 1285541622 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If infinite 2D space with 2-state cells is filled randomly and then Game of life rules are appiled to it, what happens? < 1285541626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's not neede < 1285541673 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not contain all possible subconfigurations... < 1285541743 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there would be beth-zero cells and GOL has beth-one configurations... < 1285541789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 2-state cells? < 1285541793 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1285541796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1285541804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life that's resistant to common space debris might not necessarily be able to survive exotic ships if one happens to hit < 1285541811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: stack an infinite number of random universes on top of each other :P < 1285541832 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285541832 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not enough unless number of universes is at least beth-one. < 1285541844 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since beth-zero + beth-zero = beth-zero. < 1285541856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1285541876 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285541881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: true, it'd be beth-zero^2 < 1285541882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1285541902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, beth-zero * beth-zero = beth-zero. < 1285541916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose a spacefiller does happen to be nearby < 1285541923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It degrades due to debris < 1285541934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But couldn't that flood the area with gliders? < 1285541946 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's fun one. Aleph-two * beth-one. < 1285541962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's gimel-zero? < 1285541968 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that equal aleph two or beth one? :-) < 1285542046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the answer is that its independent of ZFC. < 1285542115 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be fun if P=NP? was shown to be independent in turing machine model. < 1285542172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an infinite soup, surely gliders would continue to hit a given space < 1285542190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But would lessen in intensive, as gliders from further away end up hitting more debris along the way < 1285542356 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are CA rules with two slashes in them (in golly)? < 1285542924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd have their own cosmic background radiation < 1285542982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does gimel-zero mean something? < 1285543120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, same spam again from a different From address, this time with the subject "HTML !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" < 1285543155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, aleph and beth are letters of the Hewbrew alphabet < 1285543157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet? < 1285543176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can'tcha just FEEL the HTML? < 1285543195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Aleph-two * beth-one = Aleph-two + beth-one = max(Aleph-two, beth-one) but beth-one can be almost any aleph < 1285543231 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1285543239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know that aleph and beth and gimel are letters of the Hebrew alphabet < 1285543252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a gimel sequence exists, it's far more obscure than the others < 1285543257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still doesn't tell me what gimel is used for in mathematics < 1285543277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's the difference between aleph-zero and beth-zero? < 1285543286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or aleph-N and beth-N in general? < 1285543292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extrapolate, you've got gimel-N < 1285543298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph-zero = beth-zero but from there the definitions are different < 1285543316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think there is no difference between aleph-zero and beth-zero? But I don't know how aleph-N and beth-N will differ. < 1285543333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The continuum hypothesis means that aleph and beth might be the same, I think? < 1285543340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph-N is the Nth infinite well-orderable cardinal < 1285543346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe not? There is no way to tell if it is same or not? < 1285543364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beth-(N+1) = 2^beth-N, and limits go to limits < 1285543391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generalized continuum hypothesis says aleph-N = beth-N for all ordinals N < 1285543409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with axiom of choice, every cardinal is an aleph) < 1285543450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there are models of ZFC where the beths can be chosen _very_ freely among the alephs < 1285543511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some restrictions which i don't remember, but i think e.g. beth-one can be aleph-one, aleph-two, aleph-three and possibly any aleph < 1285543552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a restriction that if beth-one is aleph-five, then beth-two cannot be aleph-four? < 1285543553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not recall ever seeing a definition for gimel-N < 1285543570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, both sequences are increasing < 1285543593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have not seen a definition like that either < 1285543617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beth-omega must be the limit of the lower beths, so that's not free to choose < 1285543735 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1285543798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikipedes
< 1285543807 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there model where beth one equals aleph two but beth two equals aleph three? < 1285543824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That was going to be my next question, too. < 1285543893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life might not be immortal: It might evolve to depend on the cosmic background radiation < 1285543909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ but i'm trying to find some definite statement < 1285543912 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, probably not as it would imply that two sets of different size would have power set of same size... < 1285543913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+so < 1285543922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which _will_, eventually, die down. Not come to a halt, but come at lower levels than life needs for sustainability < 1285543939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: um how so? < 1285543948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I design a font where the character in position 'n' is the representation of '\n' < 1285543965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh aleph-two and aleph-one < 1285543978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on for all of the other lowercase letters except 'x' < 1285544104 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1285544123 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiviously set having more elements has at least as large power set. Thus powerset of aleph one would be at least as large as powerset of aleph zero (which is aleph two in this case) but no larger than powerset of aleph two (which would happen to be aleph three). There's nothing in between, so the powerset would have to equal one or other in size. < 1285544186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A recent result of Carmi Merimovich shows that, for each n>=1, it is consistent with ZFC that for each k, 2^k is the nth successor of k." < 1285544207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think such a definition as this is useful in TeX? \def\defnoexpand#1{\def#1{\noexpand#1\noexpand}} < 1285544249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can have beth-one = aleph-two and beth-two = aleph-four, at least < 1285544281 0 :augur!~augur@pool-71-163-220-122.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285544293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n is finite here) < 1285544442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be even more WTF to them: Knightship movement < 1285544450 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that powerset of A is strictly larger than powerset of B if A is strictly larger than B, then there must be at least as many cardinailities between two consequtive beths as there was between previous beths... < 1285544501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_hypothesis#The_generalized_continuum_hypothesis < 1285544602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would like some suggestions how the representation of '\n' '\r' '\e' and so on should be drawn < 1285544620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: hm i don't think any of the examples in that section violate your hypothesis < 1285544647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i would not bet on it being true < 1285544706 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Hmm... that page has formula that says that strictly larger set can have equally sized powerset... < 1285544729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1285544758 0 :augur!~augur@pool-71-163-220-122.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1285544801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the second last inequality in that section? i guess that sort of implies it's not _known_ to be impossible, at least < 1285544847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the assumption that inequality was added by someone who knew, at least - this _is_ wikipedia after all < 1285544855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that that < 1285544940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1285544954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easton%27s_theorem < 1285544985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i vaguely must have remembered when saying there were some restrictions < 1285545056 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1285545163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph_omega is the first non-regular infinite cardinal, says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_cardinal < 1285545164 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two sets that are not isomorphic but have isomorphic powersets is somewhat mind-bending... < 1285545226 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiviously those can't exist unless GCH is false... < 1285545318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ easton's theorem applies to the beth-one = aleph-two, beth-two = aleph-three case < 1285545359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1285545405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want G(0) = 2, G(2) = 3 < 1285545548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to me to work