< 1284422422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, 100 kr hm. Tja, gör nog det. < 1284422455 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur funkar det med kårhus och sånt? får man komma in på fester etc utan att vara medlem i kåren? < 1284422469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, jag går inte på festerna! < 1284422480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, jag bor två mil utanför stan < 1284422486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :och jag är nykterist < 1284422497 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail, fail och fail :) < 1284422538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, nä < 1284422538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i can just translate all of that < 1284422554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION no longer has long hair. Feels a bit odd.
< 1284422559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fine. the reason I switched was because I have no clue wtf "kåravgiften" is in English < 1284422572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: translates "student union fees" here < 1284422575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] And our corps sucks. < 1284422580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *our corps sucks :) < 1284422593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Translate: bad at translating foreign errors in language! < 1284422594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un < 1284422599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our student union < 1284422601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1284422602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jag skulle betala kåravgift tror jag -> I would pay student union fees, I think < 1284422603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not corps < 1284422614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IT'S TOTALLY CORPS (says Google) < 1284422616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ugh fix it. < 1284422624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your neck is cold and your ears painfully exposed. < 1284422632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Olsner, I read well the hell not linguistics: P < 1284422642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh "Uppdatering: PayEx har nu fått alla uppgifter från banken och kan därför i samarbete med Montania starta igång medlemssystemet i början på nästa vecka!" < 1284422646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Bald spot + long hair = vomit < 1284422647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't pay it yet it seems < 1284422649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1284422655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how it works with the student union building and stuff? you may enter at parties etc but to be a member of the Corps? < 1284422655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Olsner, I'm not at the party! < 1284422655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Olsner, I live two mil out of town < 1284422655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I am a teetotaler < 1284422655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fail, fail and fail:) < 1284422670 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: Bald spot + long hair = vomit // THIS WILL BE ME < 1284422677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner ⁵ < 1284422679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fail < 1284422682 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess "fail" is universal < 1284422686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at two of them < 1284422688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: olsner actually said "fail". < 1284422693 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes i know < 1284422697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: close enough that i grokked the meaning enough to know you were being your usual boring self < 1284422698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but you definitely give absolutely no credence to any other person's tastes in your personal apperance. < 1284422709 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, or rather, culture imperialism :P < 1284422711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: Gregor: You're hideous. < 1284422712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point of having actually painful colors. :P < 1284422725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That was my understanding. < 1284422737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: men det är lite coolt att vara nykterist ändå, jag brukar tänka mig att nykterister är det för att de har dolda ninjaskills som skulle vara alldeles för farliga om de släppte på hämningarna < 1284422744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, it's just that he manages to select precisely the wrong colors intentionally. It's kinda cool, though. < 1284422760 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ninjaskills" - translate *that*! < 1284422762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To the point of having actually painful colors. :P <-- I like Gregor doing it that way < 1284422764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands out < 1284422775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does going naked everywhere < 1284422782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "ninja skills" < 1284422786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS DIFFICULT < 1284422787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hahaha < 1284422792 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed. bow down to our king < 1284422795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of merely not caring about matching and stuff, he actually goes out and unmatches. < 1284422800 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the king of the english language empire < 1284422812 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OMG YOU CRACKED IT < 1284422819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kuk-sugande jäveln tik skit fitta! < 1284422824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE GOOGLE TRANSLATE < 1284422826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm, men kom ihåg vem som kan köra hem efter festen! < 1284422877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tik? That is "female dog" but it is in no way an insult < 1284422886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, bitch is 'bitch' in swedish, "tik" just means a female dog < 1284422893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be rather incomprehensible as an insult < 1284422901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, bitch is not a Swedish word! < 1284422927 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used as a swedish word, thus it must be one < 1284422931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enligt min åsikt i hermeneutik i alltihop har vi förlorat en känsla av eller riktning. En viss rening av bajs däck skall vara ordnade, så att vi kan automatisera vissa overaller bara. < 1284422939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, whaaat? < 1284422945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hermeneutik" < 1284422947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1284422957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics < 1284422982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and why do you want to "automatisera vissa overaller bara" < 1284422990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYEVER NOT < 1284422991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic overalls? < 1284423001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was "alls" :P < 1284423006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was something like < 1284423006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't in Swedish < 1284423011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned into "overalls" < 1284423014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in clothing < 1284423035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, with the hermeneutics of everything we have lost a sense or direction. A degree of [purification?] on the poop deck blah blah so we can aut... < 1284423037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it was nonsense < 1284423048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1284423057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"icecream" -> "glass" < 1284423060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Translate \o/ < 1284423061 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 | < 1284423061 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                /�\ < 1284423064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes what about it < 1284423069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nonsense, i've heard of that < 1284423070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for single words it works okay < 1284423071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is it actually glass? < 1284423076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish < 1284423079 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes? < 1284423085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what else would it be? < 1284423091 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, glass is icecream, glas is glass < 1284423115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following that pattern, gla is iron < 1284423125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, järn is iron < 1284423149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics <-- tl;dr < 1284423149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "glad" "glad"? < 1284423150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1284423159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, glad is happy yes. < 1284423170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's gladd? < 1284423178 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION itchin' for more extrapolatin'
< 1284423178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a word starting "gla" that means some sort of person or being < 1284423181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in swedish < 1284423181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, as far as I know: nothing < 1284423207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do a concatenation of some sort < 1284423211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be easy < 1284423228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I leave it as an exercise to the reader < 1284423234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate doesn't know how to do that. < 1284423261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually getting gla that way could be tricky < 1284423263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1284423265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Glass glas glasyrer glasartade glad glasidioter. < 1284423284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasyrer <-- coating on pottery afaik < 1284423290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plural < 1284423291 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on cakes < 1284423295 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that yes < 1284423298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ice cream glass glazes glassy glad glass morons" < 1284423299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I wrote < 1284423302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then concatenated the last two words < 1284423313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasidioter does work < 1284423317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo < 1284423319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am Swedish < 1284423319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning morons made of glass < 1284423320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1284423321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1284423339 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nonsensical to me, but it's perfectly alright to make up your own words < 1284423341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at least that is how I would interpret it < 1284423349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed < 1284423368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-sensical and I just went with the default interpretation if none other is standard. < 1284423387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I assume you end up with the same meaning as I did? < 1284423424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH! Och spetsen ner ... fortfarande, härskaren av den och den är inte säker. Alltså: är inte säker på vad, varför, när, vilka eller hur, eller något annat ärende som gäller ärenden som händer med ärendet omkring honom. "Oavsett", sade han: helt fel. Som, ofokuserad, närmade sig kameran honom flyttade han snabbt så att den inte en skymt av honom ... och misslyckades, så var det. < 1284423448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not grammatically correct < 1284423453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what does it read as? < 1284423458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nonsense < 1284423461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with in-head grammatical correction < 1284423464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nonsense, i've heard of that < 1284423481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Overhead! and the tip down ... still" < 1284423488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, for that language please visit www.perl.org or #perl - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1284423489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: gladd would be the perfect participle of glädja (make happy) < 1284423502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH = overhead in Swedish, Åh = Oh < 1284423524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1284423524 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh gosh, that doesn't make it easy. iron, happy, make happy... < 1284423526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can't be bothered to translate the rest < 1284423543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD < 1284423553 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next term in the series must be...: spontaneous combustion < 1284423563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh indeed it would. Not common really < 1284423571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gladde sig" < 1284423577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is about all I can think of < 1284423587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is probably even more convoluted class < 1284423593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than just perfect participle < 1284423615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't translate that < 1284423618 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preteritum, apparently < 1284423619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vad är det här jävla idiotiskt skitsnack?" kom rasande och såg buller of the Beast kapten - tredje division, fullt bepansrade, lastade hela tiden, primade med en detonator, du vet hur det är i dessa dagar. (Hur som helst, funderade han, att formulera mer skulle vara meningslös, skulle för sin publik inte förstår orden. Så fruktansvärt att behöva vara så krass ... men då han blev påmind om sin vrede, och den facklas. Hur som helst ...) Han iv < 1284423619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äg på sin nyfunna resa, han skulle gå till ... < 1284423635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Odjuret Kapten < 1284423645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nonsense after the second " < 1284423657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the closing quote? < 1284423660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes < 1284423661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1284423664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you interpret it < 1284423667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're more forgiving < 1284423675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you need to do it shorter < 1284423678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1284423679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tl;dt < 1284423681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1284423686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with t = translate < 1284423687 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much nonsense < 1284423715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate translates it back ... sort of okay :P < 1284423718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"skulle för sin publik inte förstår orden" was rather fitting though < 1284423755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Vilken godhet-förbaskad fitta! < 1284423765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rofl < 1284423792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "goodness-damned" I think is the best backtranslation < 1284423797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I wrote. < 1284423801 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284423802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh-darned just translated as gosh-darned. < 1284423804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1284423806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh-[darned]. < 1284423809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume gosh doesn't mean gosh. < 1284423811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION esolang-ideas
< 1284423817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it doesn't < 1284423831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there an equivalent of an -ing suffix? < 1284423839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A parens-less stack-based language that mixes prefix and postfix < 1284423844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a -s suffix? (on verbs; make -> makes) < 1284423846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, presens is generally used < 1284423851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and for -s: no < 1284423852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "FOOpresens"? < 1284423854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't do that shot < 1284423856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aww, what do I do in that case? < 1284423858 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh would be jösses, I think < 1284423861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no as in the presens form < 1284423863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to give some examples right now < 1284423870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "read" rather than "reading" < 1284423880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284423886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is there a way around it? < 1284423886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284423892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for a good cause! < 1284423897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we have a sort of -ing form but... it is rarely used, a subset of the English cases. < 1284423901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, VERY formal < 1284423902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1284423906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like juridical text < 1284423907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to translate "Verbing weirds language." < 1284423909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"läsande" < 1284423915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. could be in stats < 1284423918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still formal < 1284423921 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbande konstigar språk < 1284423927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, fail < 1284423933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284423933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's not the same -ing as for progressive < 1284423935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284423939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"weirds" < 1284423940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These all print 10: < 1284423944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ . 5 5 < 1284423944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not -s as in third person < 1284423947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1284423949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 5 5 . < 1284423954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 5 + . < 1284423961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does not print 10: < 1284423962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the-act-of-verbing makes-weird language < 1284423964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. 5 5 + < 1284423974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except makes-weird must be expressed as "[weird as adjective][-s]" < 1284423984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "verbande konstifierar språk" < 1284423986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1284423986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i vaguely recall the norwegian translation from my old Tommy & Tigern magazines was "Verbing sprøer språket" < 1284423990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1284423995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still vote for verbande, but makes-weird is hard to find a good word for I think < 1284423996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ . 5 5 does NOT print 10 < 1284423996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what do you think about that one? < 1284424011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. + 5 5 does < 1284424012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has to be [weird][suffix] < 1284424015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using the proper form < 1284424017 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdifies ... could be worse < 1284424026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Vem är du som säger att det finns ingenting som du kan säga som inte redan sagts av en annan?! AAAAAAAAAA < 1284424031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Tommy & Tigern xD < 1284424039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only person on topic? < 1284424040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why can't it be the proper form < 1284424047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1284424052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because that removes the humour < 1284424053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: basically for _that_ meaning norwegian uses -ing, and i suspect swedish as well < 1284424056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah < 1284424058 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we're on topic! it's just that our topic is different from yours < 1284424061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f88340115706740f4970b-800wi < 1284424066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not sure it can be translated to Swedish < 1284424070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bibbles
< 1284424076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: english conflated the two meanings in its history, it used to have -ind vs. -ing iirc < 1284424078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, skulle vara verbning isåfall < 1284424079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: bibbles means nothing < 1284424082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write up a spec and ask for opinions < 1284424088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1284424129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: basically for _that_ meaning norwegian uses -ing, and i suspect swedish as well <-- which meaning? < 1284424132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Vorpal: Han härmade hans enda telefon över nedskärningen. Detta, då, var hans fostret. < 1284424150 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, s/hans/sin/ perhaps? < 1284424153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah it translated fetus->baby < 1284424160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's "He aped his only telephone at the cut. This, then, was his fetus." < 1284424165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no fostret = fetus < 1284424169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284424172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the backtranslation that failed < 1284424176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google makes it baby the other way around < 1284424180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would hans->sin do < 1284424180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284424190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google gives same backtranslation < 1284424200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no... nedskärningen = cut in the sense of "govt cuts funds for ..." < 1284424211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not in the sense of cut a cable < 1284424243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway the first hans should be "sin" < 1284424260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I can't explain it. You use the same word in English < 1284424265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds wrong in Swedish < 1284424277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pointing to the wrong "his" < 1284424281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the noun-making meaning of english -ing, as opposed to the participle-making one < 1284424282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a previous sentence < 1284424305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm. bråkning (flaxen preparation process iirc?) < 1284424310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps < 1284424320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"---!!!! Den hop arga anhängare av post-term aborter närmar! Jag kan inte --" var hans sista ord! Glädjas glädjas glädjas! ÅH! Åh lyckligaste dag! Varför? Varför? Nej varför: bara lycklig. Lycklig Lycklig Lycklig! Glädjas glädjas glädjas! < 1284424333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_pronoun < 1284424334 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, night < 1284424338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284424339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ^ < 1284424340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unnight < 1284424343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: norwegian is less consistent about whether to insert an -n- in between (there are semantic differences too iirc) < 1284424363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, can you explain the hans/sin difference there to alise < 1284424364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't < 1284424367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"---!!!! Pöbeln av arga supportrar efter sikt aborter närmar! Jag kan inte --" var hans sista ord! Glädjas glädjas glädjas! ÅH! Åh lyckligaste dag! Varför? Varför? Nej varför: bara lycklig. Lycklig Lycklig Lycklig! Glädjas glädjas glädjas! < 1284424371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be a better translation < 1284424385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: e.g. bygging vs. bygning (the act of building vs. the result) < 1284424398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, we don't have the first < 1284424409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the latter would mean, something < 1284424411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what < 1284424413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["---!!!! Den hop arga anhängare av post-term aborter närmar! Jag kan inte --" var hans sista ord! Glädjas glädjas glädjas! ÅH! Åh lyckligaste dag! Varför? Varför? Nej varför: bara lycklig. Lycklig Lycklig Lycklig! Glädjas glädjas glädjas!]] backtranslates better < 1284424416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that means much, though < 1284424419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the result would be "byggnad" (building) < 1284424446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we have -nad too but not for that verb < 1284424456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIGHT!!!! → < 1284424472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 黒人の有権者は常に同じです。 < 1284424496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Negro voters always have the same it." < 1284424587 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about hans/sin: if we take "tom gave peter his book" and replace the 'his' with 'hans' then it must refer to peter's book, but if you use 'sin' then it would be tom's book instead < 1284424598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "sin" is the possessive pronoun used to refer back to the subject of the sentence, "hans" is used to refer to other males < 1284424601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284424611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sin = reflexive possessive pronoun) < 1284424617 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's explanation is much more specific :) < 1284424618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a word for subject vs. generic-person-mentioned is good < 1284424659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose just writing out a spec in here isn't that great an idea < 1284424661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284424667 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1284424669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use a text file < 1284424687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''' < 1284424695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;/ < 1284424698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1284424714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE OFFICIAL TINY FONT COMPETITION IS NOW OVER < 1284424715 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "den arga hopen", and you need a better translation of post-term abortion < 1284424722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Design a font smaller than 4x8. You get prizes. < 1284424729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4x8 is Already Done: http://gnu.ethz.ch/linuks.mine.nu/atari/) < 1284424747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to clean out some gunk on my " key, and I'm not bothering to get a paperclip < 1284424752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it only applies if the subject is in the 3rd person btw. i recall in czech své applies even with other persons < 1284424759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ' key, surely < 1284424764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, unless you have shift+' = " < 1284424816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The key isn't reattaching < 1284424826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''''[ < 1284424837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. '''''''''''' < 1284424839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no < 1284424843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's sunk in < 1284424860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it feels weak < 1284424866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''''''''''''''''//] < 1284424898 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, "glädjas" is probably the wrong translation there, you can't use it for exclamations of joy < 1284424932 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, and "nej varför ..." comes from something like "Not why: just happy"? < 1284424944 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1284424959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw -s in english ~ -r in scandinavian languages, for both present of verbs and plural of nouns. i think they were confused by the fact that in english verbs in means 3rd person singular + present, while in scandinavian languages it means all persons < 1284424971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284424979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes (to that last one) < 1284424990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No why: just joy. < 1284424991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it means < 1284424992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1284424999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''['[''''''';;;'''''''''l/.;[;;;''///////l;'';;';;;;p;;;;;;;;;;;;'';''';''''';;;;;'''''''''''[[['''/?{//'[;]----.;ppp/p[/;'mkk'';'m';'''''''''''' < 1284425019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''/'[[[[[[[[[[[[[[['[''''''''''' < 1284425042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeep < 1284425062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the attack of the keyboard gunk < 1284425083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' < 1284425089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''''''' < 1284425099 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nej is no, not not < 1284425103 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alltså ska det vara inte, inte nej) < 1284425105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think I had that thought once < 1284425115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RPN/FPN one, not the bibbles or the gunk ones < 1284425130 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i did, i never did anything with it < 1284425131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily do it with negotiation < 1284425161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but "no why: just joy" would be "inget varför: bara glädje" < 1284425182 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope some of these show up in peoples' quit messages < 1284425193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluate all expressions in a function call. get all their types. find one that's a function type. look up in the function's record what types it accepts and outputs. continue for all the functions. pick the one that most precisely matches (subclasses match better than superclasses, etc., optional arguments match worse than non-optional arguments), and call it with the others in the relevant positions. < 1284425197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this allows totally free word order < 1284425217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 'x' is a character and "x" is a string, < 1284425223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' in "xyz" < 1284425226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1284425228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 'x' "xyz" < 1284425229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally free world order < 1284425233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in "xyz" 'x' < 1284425234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' in "xyz" < 1284425237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xyz" in 'x' < 1284425242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' "xyz" in < 1284425242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tlatinagata < 1284425243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1284425245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xyz" 'x' in < 1284425246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would all work < 1284425261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 - 3 < 1284425276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: spoilsport :D < 1284425288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1284425294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea allows infix too < 1284425302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just realized
< 1284425302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: invent associative subtraction already! < 1284425307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we just lack circumfix < 1284425307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- 2 3 < 1284425310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 - 3 < 1284425313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 3 - < 1284425315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the same < 1284425319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so absically it's like mine but not as cool < 1284425325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the order you specify would take precedence in such matters < 1284425327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2 - 3 != 3 - 2 < 1284425333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can't negotiate the two; so it uses the source order < 1284425343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: *commutative (although you want associative too, with more arguments) < 1284425347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pluvo does something similar to this. < 1284425349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plastic on this key has been mashed < 1284425356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commutative subtraction is just |x-y| < 1284425361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :associative is difficult < 1284425371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;'[' < 1284425381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have permanently damaged my ' key :( < 1284425381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's a sad Sgeo < 1284425437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody ask me what Pluvo is < 1284425438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey? :P < 1284425447 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ^. ? < 1284425468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1284425478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pluvo is http://inamidst.com/pluvo/, anyway. < 1284425478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hands full
< 1284425513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ' key is now liable to fall off randomly < 1284425519 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god not another programming language < 1284425530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284425534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey andrew cooke commented on it cool < 1284425536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first comment on http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1598) < 1284425542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pluvo is just an experimentally thing anyway < 1284425544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dead (2006) < 1284425554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so basically it is now a catastrophe key? < 1284425569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://inamidst.com/pluvo/doc/guide coordination stuff < 1284425597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can use superglue < 1284425684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should make a '" free language
< 1284425695 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experimental language will be a great and superior language in the future when it gets out of the experimental stage < 1284425725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimate in vapor-based computing < 1284425727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders ways to make . 5 5 + work
< 1284425759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's my joke-idea from a few days ago < 1284425761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you stole it :| < 1284425763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284425771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe I can use superglue ;; on a keyboard? uh, no. < 1284425778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a laptop? < 1284425780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what idea < 1284425782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1284425782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting scissor-switch keys back on is a bitch < 1284425788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ha ha sucks to be you < 1284425790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try and fit it in again < 1284425793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible but... barely < 1284425800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plastic key is BROKEN < 1284425800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: PN/RPN mixing < 1284425802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh. < 1284425804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't stay on < 1284425806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then yeah, a tiny amount of superglue < 1284425811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean < 1284425813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in two pieces? < 1284425815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1284425825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ... thingy that holds it in place is chipped < 1284425844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I realized what it was for, I chipped it further, thinking that it wouldn't go on because its deformity blocked it < 1284425889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh... i wonder, does it make any sense to intern bigints? < 1284425894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have misplaced the actual key, minutes after my dad told me not to lose it < 1284425897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prrrobly not < 1284425963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i say 'problem' there is a good chance i will say 'problem' again sometime. if i say 3,617,217,282... < 1284425999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends right? but, yeah, no. < 1284426015 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just intern *everything*? < 1284426041 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: optimal sharing hash consing! < 1284426087 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! whatever that is! < 1284426088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equals equals equiv < 1284426111 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what is "optimal" sharing? isn't everything always shared if you're hash-consing? < 1284426128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal sharing = hash consing, i was being sloppy < 1284426148 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some really really technical difference i'm not aware of < 1284426330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there always < 1284426335 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really build a language with hash-consing some day < 1284426479 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lisp-like though, more like a simplified haskell with at least some of the nice type-system features and basic polymorphism < 1284426530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea before i forget: a language with dynamic "aspect-oriented" self-weaving of some kind, like we can eval a routine as a string and it can insert code around everywhere some pattern matches in the rest of the program < 1284426545 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eval a string as a routine < 1284426546 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1284426581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be seen as a generalization of "dynamic come from" < 1284426957 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you should do that. and you should name it "Jonguilexiphonaugh" < 1284426970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you don't want to use that name... may I? < 1284427321 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284427323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I must scream < 1284427331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find my dang ' key < 1284427351 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1284427369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for using any language other than Underload or Brainfuck < 1284427462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on the table... < 1284427470 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284427505 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1284427702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines stacks and substacks
< 1284427757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, prefix notation can be used from within postfix notation, but not visa versa < 1284427762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants the visa versa
< 1284427912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does allow for a comfortable infix notation, at least < 1284428093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1284428097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *vice versa < 1284428098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1284428101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284428172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284428260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i point you to /// which basically does _nothing_ but the two things you mention ;D < 1284428291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that doesn't mean it's anything like what you meant) < 1284428296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, easiest explanation of my thoughts: < 1284428308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally, it's postfix < 1284428320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when there's stack underflow, it goes into a prefix-like mode < 1284428335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the starved word waits for things to fill the stack before executing < 1284428339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So much for using any language other than Underload or Brainfuck <-- also unlambda :) < 1284428339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + < 1284428351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + is an underflow, thus, it waits < 1284428357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 1 fills what + needed < 1284428364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is an underflow < 1284428367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 fills it < 1284428456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1 + 1 and 1 1 + do the same thing < 1284428462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, + 1 1 < 1284428470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 1 + is not a stack underflow < 1284428546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284428565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe , could tell the next word that there's nothing on the stack < 1284428575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To force prefix notation < 1284428719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ' causes the next single stack push to not count towards fulfilling an underflow until a word executes that causes the substack to have 1 element again < 1284428735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this would be valid: < 1284428756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 2 ' 1 1 + < 1284428766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That leaves a 4 on the stack < 1284428808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet: < 1284428831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is "The next word does not satisfy the condition needed to fulfil..." < 1284428833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, no < 1284428974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ye-e-es < 1284428989 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it's not possible to find that page on esolangs.org by searching < 1284429051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1284429057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seriously has homework he needs to do :/
< 1284429062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might need to boot into ubunto < 1284429065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu < 1284429078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Slashes in case you didn't find it at all) < 1284429103 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did, eventually, by browsing. < 1284429111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying string-rewriting system, is what that is < 1284429131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1284429137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1284429161 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of < 1284429214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thoughts on my thoughts? < 1284429348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: none yet < 1284429364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thought. < 1284429380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given your lack of a ' key, why did you choose ' as a language element? < 1284429404 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284429530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the opposite of , < 1284429544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $debug = ($#ARGV >= 0 and $ARGV[0] =~ m/^-d([1-2]?)$/ and shift and ($1 || 1)); < 1284429547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided it's not worth letting my terminal keyboard issues interfere with the language < 1284429551 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You had me at 'and shift and'" < 1284429623 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wasn't aware you had a , < 1284429639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284429688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 + , + 1 1 < 1284429695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that , is unnecessary < 1284429706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the second + is in a substack < 1284429722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, also, it's wrong < 1284429725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1284429747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 , + 1 1 + < 1284429753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1284429765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The , makes it such that the + doesn't see the two 1s on the stack < 1284429784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION might just scrap , and '
< 1284429884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should use combinators for those weirdities < 1284429893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would screw up the flow < 1284429909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284429926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should consider what happens if words pushed themselves onto the stack, or some such weirdity < 1284429940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might let me include postfix within prefix, by forcing reliance on correct types < 1284429951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a fleshed out idea yet, though < 1284430000 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't words already push themselves onto the stack? < 1284430022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not.. as such, no < 1284430038 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kind of wants to implement /// in C now
< 1284430048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe R < 1284430083 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep wanting to write something in R < 1284430234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dives in his R grant money.
< 1284430237 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm, R grant money. < 1284430246 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Rry. < 1284430471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would \ as a time travel word be too much < 1284430493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a "Hey wait, that last word wasn't meant to fulfil the underflow!" < 1284430527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R --slave --file=your_script.R < 1284430540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what happens then when one word potentially fulfills a bunch of underflows < 1284430542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have to specify 'slave', or R will spam your output with prompts and such < 1284430589 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The R Language Definition" does not appear to include the word "comment" anywhere in it < 1284430603 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1284430606 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wrong. < 1284430631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# they are the boring usual ones < 1284430751 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how would that happen? maybe i'm not following closely enough < 1284430777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 + 1 1 < 1284430792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last one fulfills the second + < 1284430796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resulting in a 1 < 1284430800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which fulfills the first + < 1284430815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I elaborated on the substacks enough for it to be comprehensible < 1284430822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: R is in violation of the universal declaration of human rights! < 1284430849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, _why_ do I have substacks? < 1284430881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: subconsciously introduced? < 1284430898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I thought I needed them to be able to next prefix < 1284430903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I'm not sure < 1284430908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nest < 1284430998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the terminally confused, I was reading + 1 + 1 1 as (+ 1 (+ 1 1)) < 1284431029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When probably (+ (1 + 1)) with an extra 1 makes more sense given what I've explained < 1284431256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language started in my mind initially as a stack-based parensless prefix, before I decided to make it mixfix < 1284431386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I guess it depends on whether operations which don't have enough values 'grab' values as soon as they can, or wait for there to be as many as they need < 1284431414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284431419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between those? < 1284431454 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe nothing < 1284431457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1284431510 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have + 1 * 2 3, is that (1+2)*3, or 1+(2*3) ? < 1284431554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter, I think < 1284431557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's "eager" it's the latter, but if operators are "patient" it's the former < 1284431588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a stack underflow at * < 1284431619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume both + and * "hang around" waiting for more values < 1284431628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1284431638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may need to change some or all of this < 1284431649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I really, really want to allow postfix within prefix < 1284431673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, another interpretation might be + (1 * 2) 3 < 1284431807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything useful about that interpretation? < 1284431826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows postfix in some circumstances... < 1284431848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the postfix can't be used to fulfil the last one that a prefix is waiting for < 1284431866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to next prefix in that interpretation? < 1284431868 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix within prefix will take guts and sweat and days without food < 1284431877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i predict) < 1284431881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can see, not without something like , < 1284431891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or another operator, sure. < 1284431910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should try to avoid operators like that though < 1284431918 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 2 * 3 is very ambiguous that way < 1284431943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that at all ambiguous? < 1284431954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could nondeterministically parse every possible interpretation, and then pick one based on an optimality-theoretic tableau < 1284431955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 2 becomes 3, then 3 * 3 < 1284431968 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ (1 2 *) 3 < 1284431978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want postfix within prefix, as you said < 1284431990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1284432036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 'ea' in creative a diaeresis? Sure it is, right? < 1284432040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is, I'm being silly. < 1284432066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION aets Gregor
< 1284432282 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be a triaeresis or quadraeresis < 1284432299 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say it slowly it sounds like there are a whole lot of different vowel sounds in there < 1284432346 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be three, but it's a diaeresis since two form a diphthong. < 1284432351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cr-ee-eh-ah-ee-tiv < 1284432377 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may just be imagining the eh < 1284432394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're either imagining it or the 'ah', depending on your accent :P < 1284432501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just start using þorn ... I wonder if I could get enough people to stop using T-H þat þe momentum would actually change language. Probably not, technology would kill it. < 1284432514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for postfix in prefix, I'd need an operator < 1284432584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support þornography < 1284432588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Θink so? < 1284432601 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Þat's not a capital þorn. < 1284432626 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't say "Þink". < 1284432634 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, unless you're advocating for two different letters for þe voiced and unvoiced form. < 1284432658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Þat's not how it worked in English by þe time þorn died. Eiþer way, you want ð, not þat. < 1284432687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TheAnnoyer < 1284432841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe I could get myself to use boþ þorn and eþ ... < 1284432862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I þink ðat would be too tricky for Random Idiot X... < 1284432940 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is where the taxpayers' R grant money is going, eh. < 1284432946 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YUP! < 1284432977 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anova one bites the dust < 1284432983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it concerns Random Idiots, and is therefore _clearly_ statistical < 1284432996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Precisically! < 1284434143 0 :TheAnnoyer!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1284434858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the Student's t-distribution and t-test were developed for the Guinness brewery (the guy wrote under the pen name "Student") < 1284434953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the inventor of that cannot have been quite sober < 1284435181 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284435192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a calamari! < 1284435199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is learning to survive without a ' key
< 1284435206 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1284435320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I broke mine after trying to put it back after cleaning out gunk in the hopes that it would work better < 1284435363 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1284435387 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I unplug my keyboard and plug it back in, the layout changes to international and I can no longer type ' or " < 1284435428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then I have to go change the layout.. really annoying, but I suppose I could fix it if I really wanted so, since kde is open source < 1284436057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Perl < 1284436071 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284436481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Hi < 1284436483 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1284436491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote perl < 1284436493 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284436498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking! < 1284436523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote brainfuck < 1284436525 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284436547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote befunge < 1284436549 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284436555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote what < 1284436557 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. 14| So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? 42| after all, what are DVD players for? 81| < 1284436789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need substacks for decent nesting of prefix < 1284437417 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote who < 1284437420 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :132| For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. 139| let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future < 1284437455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails to be mystified
< 1284437460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 38 < 1284437461 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :38| speaking of pants harry potter movie < 1284437462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 138 < 1284437467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :138| so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? < 1284437584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 140 < 1284437585 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :140| oklopol geez what are you doing here ...i don't know :< i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... < 1284437594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 137 < 1284437596 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :137|0 < 1284437612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess that last one was pretty mystifying < 1284437631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should grep the esologs < 1284437640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May not have come from #esoteric. < 1284437674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but ais523 is not a Siner < 1284437675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible. all other channels are illusions! < 1284437728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the quote's been repeated in channel before, but I can't find it in logs < 1284437744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the quote itself is pretty mystifying < 1284437858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It's impossible to add fake quotes. < 1284437860 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :224| It's impossible to add fake quotes. < 1284438571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, I didn't add that!" "Sure you did, you said right there it's impossible to add fake quotes." < 1284438637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who should know better than the bot's creator < 1284438980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How important is sensible prefix-in-prefix? < 1284439091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I _still_ want postfix-in-prefix < 1284439113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use types < 1284439116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say I have someword < 1284439122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It accepts only a boolean < 1284439141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someword 'A' capital? < 1284439153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'A' does not satisfy someword's requirement < 1284439158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the capital? does < 1284439236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an >unsat that makes whatever's on the stack into a special class of types that doesn't satisfy for these purposes < 1284439258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does satisfiability work with postfix, though? < 1284439665 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wants Sgeo prefix postfix in < 1284439761 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make @ take a value and 'decorate' it to be unprefixsyntaxusablein < 1284439816 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wants Sgeo @prefix @postfix in < 1284439832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your "unsat" < 1284439851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is ugly, just off the top of my head. pick something prettier < 1284439868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. I have been deemed "attractive". < 1284439902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravitationally speaking, that just means fat < 1284439905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have been deemed 'hot' before, which is odd < 1284439934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm merely finding it curious that a change in hair style produces such a result. < 1284439963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been called 'hot', then almost immediately found out that that wasn't serious < 1284439983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah < 1284439989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nope, was serious < 1284442202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1284442706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284443749 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284444241 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what hairstyle is that < 1284444480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Rather short hair, instead of having the headbanger look going. < 1284444498 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parted? < 1284444597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too short to part. < 1284444863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1284444874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got short hair recently, and my step-mother said it looked hideous < 1284444879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, it was soldier-short < 1284444886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't trust my step-mother < 1284444977 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284444982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mine is, in fact, soldier-short. < 1284444992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disbelieve in undramatic changes in appearance. < 1284444992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284445018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering just taking advice from a female friend of mine who said she'd like to help < 1284445088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To solider-short from long-enough-to-hypothetically-braid. < 1284445102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About as dramatic as it gets with hair, really. < 1284445695 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1284447081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, but "no why: just joy" would be "inget varför: bara glädje" <--- really? < 1284447127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this allows totally free word order <-- what about for exp(double, double) ? XD < 1284447314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Before I realized what it was for, I chipped it further, thinking that it wouldn't go on because its deformity blocked it <-- idiot < 1284447568 0 :tombom!~tombom@86.26.74.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284447575 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1284447575 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284447834 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284448279 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284448956 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1284450169 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284450683 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284451199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1284451200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1284452189 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1284452282 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284454377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, the university shell servers keep getting more and more ridiculous; this one lists 24 cores in /proc/cpuinfo. (Though I think it's just a 2-cpu 6-core Xeon, with the 12→24 duplication because of HyperThreading.) < 1284454422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also seems to have an even hundred gigabytes of memory.) < 1284454516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 96.5, apparently; I'm not quite sure where the .5 comes from.) < 1284454737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I would like me one of those < 1284454880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that box is pretty much dedicated to run a few hundred (or maybe a thousand) irssi/alpine/mutt/etc. screens, nothing more. < 1284455501 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284455774 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284455885 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1284456848 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dedicated to run 24 of your own gcc processes, you mean? < 1284456868 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever cpu-intensive project you're up to :) < 1284457052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have some sort of automation to catch people who do long-running CPU-intensive tasks. < 1284461027 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284470885 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1284471184 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284474655 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1284474976 0 :Slereah!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-42-192.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284475334 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E62EC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284475370 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284475424 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1284475648 0 :cpressey_!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284475787 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tricky," he said. "But can you do it?" cried Loonquawl. < 1284476541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: He was a bit loony for a quawl < 1284476766 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1284476833 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284477315 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i need your peer reviewing skills < 1284477417 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284477598 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he just left :( < 1284477946 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'peers so < 1284480198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boo hiss. < 1284480440 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1284480443 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ufomammut < 1284480448 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pshaw. if oerjan said it you'd lol < 1284480495 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nooga < 1284480551 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1284480743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: That's because we WURRRRRRRRVE the oerj (pronounced "werj") < 1284480785 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-142.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284481200 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1284481816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!5ead1d47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.29.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284481840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, who made the title sane? < 1284481852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it more when it was stupid and confusing! < 1284482045 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he who is slowly becoming my nemesis it seems < 1284482066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: who? < 1284482080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, you can't make that dound appropriately dramatic. < 1284482098 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't like where i live, underwhelmed by the languages i design, and now hissing at my oerjan-level punning just 'cos it'd not coming from oerjan himself < 1284482115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that William Shatner said it. Anyway, < 1284482122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be Gregor? < 1284482126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise? < 1284482142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, when it comes round to hating things, my money's on alise. < 1284482149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's very good at it. < 1284482181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was Gregor. < 1284482200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know you're logreading this, so please don't take offence. < 1284482279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: well, I always thought you and Gregor would end up at odds with each other. < 1284482299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You both occupy the same quantum state in my head, and it's not big enough for the both of you. < 1284482438 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, he's only my nemesis so far. i think it would take an alise or a zzo38 to be my *arch*-nemesis. :D < 1284482471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: ooh, can I be your arch nemesis! < 1284482536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to help with Lisp64 < 1284482542 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you could be Q. Not the Star Trek one, the James Bond one. 'coz, you know, you have The Deevice. and that Deity Ray thing < 1284482543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're my friend. < 1284482553 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Device < 1284482554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: I can be both! < 1284482561 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Deevice looks kind of cool too < 1284482594 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am not opposed to Lisp64 although I don't know if I'm in a state to help it < 1284482628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: well, you just need to be able to make crazy engineering suggestions. < 1284482689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, I am both Qs now. < 1284482887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN FACT: I have watched neither the classic James Bond films nor TNG, < 1284482917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have never actually seen either Q. < 1284483398 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-84.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284484462 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284484618 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.246.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284484668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how many wakeups/sec do you get on ubuntu? < 1284484894 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284484913 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284485025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:13:32 ...i guess that last one was pretty mystifying < 1284485027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 138 < 1284485126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:52:43 I've been called 'hot', then almost immediately found out that that wasn't serious < 1284485132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm considered a rather cute female. < 1284485135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such is life < 1284485149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if i cut my hair i can one day fulfil my dream of being just like pikhq < 1284485169 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rather cute pokemon < 1284485171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:52:07 this allows totally free word order <-- what about for exp(double, double) ? XD < 1284485175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source order takes precedence, as i said < 1284485198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:14 Before I realized what it was for, I chipped it further, thinking that it wouldn't go on because its deformity blocked it <-- idiot < 1284485206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is often a reasonable course of action. < 1284485246 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to comment on that, because i don't know what it's about, so it would be stupid < 1284485257 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello alise, what's a hello < 1284485310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hello is a murder < 1284485330 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1284485333 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking damn < 1284485462 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1284485699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: more Lisp64 stuff± < 1284485722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you any thoughts on how the dialect would be? < 1284485749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer to CL than Scheme, but not CL for obvious reasons? < 1284485777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... like Scheme < 1284485791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so do I. < 1284485816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this isn't really its forte, is it? < 1284485929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But CL is *way* too huge and carries far too much baggage from lesser OSes to use for this. < 1284485954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just make the perfect Lisp. k. < 1284485980 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover said I can make crazy engineering suggestions so I shall promote using Pixley < 1284486012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: interesting crazy, silly! < 1284486023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, so what's in that perfect Lisp? < 1284486028 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, irssi in a cygwin bastardized dos window does not handle resizing and scrolling well < 1284486067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many namespaces? < 1284486081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1284486097 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: to be slightly more serious, I would want a pure and reasonably small core, howevermuch wise that may or may not be < 1284486113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: yes, so what's in that perfect Lisp? ;; cool things < 1284486144 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang-style message-passing < 1284486154 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the only way to violate the pure < 1284486165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the behaviour of the compiler changes depending on the namespace. < 1284486168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: mayyybe < 1284486193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AfterNote: I may vanish at any moment. < 1284486288 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ^L redraws. yes. good. sanity again < 1284486358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how does that fit with the current architecture? < 1284486367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, rather well. < 1284486397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks about it
< 1284486441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Some* code will need to me impure, like device drivers etc. < 1284486444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1284486468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting all caught up about purity here. That's for alise OS. < 1284486478 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I read a paper once on "hardware access monads" and their use in an academic Haskell OS < 1284486479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alOS < 1284486531 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, only expressing my opinion, which may or may not reflect those of Lisp864 and its sponsors. < 1284486553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Void where prohibited. < 1284486556 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, as long as i've got a way to statically analyze the code and tell me what's pure and what might not be, i'm good < 1284486720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp86 is my vehicle to use Phantom_Hoover to create something like my perfect world-dominating vision in finite time! < 1284486722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahahaha < 1284486724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so anyway, I think we can restrict the actual language primitives to a tiny set of direct memory access ones. < 1284486734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh... maybe. < 1284486740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sort of like kind of exactly Forth. < 1284486756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if etc, obviously. < 1284486821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe not. < 1284486863 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda, cons, car, cdr, at least, i assume? < 1284486886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! Leave all the design to me, Phantom_Hoover; you can code the x86-75 < 1284486887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284486893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! Leave all the design to me, Phantom_Hoover; you can code the pages upon pages of x86-64 assembly. < 1284486894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284486896 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's as "direct" as memory access classically gets in lispies, though i can see wanting to go lower < 1284486910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: there will be some sort of service offering memory poking for drivers. < 1284486918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought assembly was going to be kept to a completely bare minimum. < 1284486933 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(poke! 53281 0) < 1284486936 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like. < 1284486954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Except for all the runtime, the GC, the various OS facilities now part of the runtime... < 1284486961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not many facilities, admittedly.) < 1284487008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pages on pages of assembly are not something I am even vaguely good at. < 1284487019 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284487027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I! < 1284487030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun! < 1284487061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S KIDNAP SOMEONE < 1284487096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_ is good at assembly! < 1284487102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can put Vorpal in an agony booth! < 1284487104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get to it. < 1284487134 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_ is okay at assembly. hardly the best one here, i'm sure. < 1284487154 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: i have never done anything remotely >286ish. < 1284487157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the others are either in asylums or not stupid enough. < 1284487164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will be assimilated. < 1284487177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resistance is -- where did you go...? < 1284487198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, so can I help with design? < 1284487219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're the kidnapper in this crime ring! < 1284487237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: baaaah < 1284487242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fiine. < 1284487243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to DESIGN things! < 1284487247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now go kidnap cpressey. < 1284487251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Vorpal! < 1284487257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ... keep him away from a computer. < 1284487259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forever. < 1284487267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fires up the Device.
< 1284487312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, Vorpal, get plane tickets straight to Edinburgh. You'll only need one way. Failure to comply will be met with use of the Device. < 1284487346 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cleverly swaps places with Gregor somehow
< 1284487384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay, we can just poke Gregor with a rusty stick. < 1284487390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Kidnap Gregor -- who is actually cpressey. < 1284487392 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes < 1284487399 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise has discovered the nature of THE DEVICE < 1284487400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT poke "Gregor" (cpressey) with a rusty stick; < 1284487408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO poke "cpressey" (Gregor) with a rusty stick. < 1284487412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284487417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The device is the RUSTIEST STICK. < 1284487423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never before has bark been so rusty. < 1284487428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S SO RUSTY < 1284487444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA < 1284487472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, Gregor, into the plane. Now. < 1284487480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOSE < 1284487499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, cpressey_, into the plain. < 1284487501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MWAHAHA) < 1284487504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they cannot resist. < 1284487581 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, this is gonna be the best os EVER! < 1284487628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i said plain by mistake < 1284487628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1284487630 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284487695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now that I have kidnapped some developy people can I help design? < 1284487732 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would actually be willing to try coding some *small corner* of the OS if it is *well defined*. Which in practice means no. < 1284487775 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it means you actually have to design shit instead of just playing around with cool ideas < 1284487865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION -> stuff
< 1284487870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1284488072 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284488187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;c < 1284488188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c; < 1284488190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1284488204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: grumpy grumpy < 1284488208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284488255 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be too if you were just kidnapped! by use of the Device, no less < 1284488433 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284488444 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rewrites his traversal function a *third* time
< 1284488454 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284488987 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1284489206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284489233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1284489290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, so we aren't designing shit at the moment? < 1284489308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea as to the process of designing shit
< 1284489407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you designing shit? < 1284489418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284489491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shit are you designing right now? < 1284489535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1284489563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it language shit or persistence shit or what? < 1284489608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1284489680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[SAN FRANCISCO — In describing the motivation behind Intel's recent purchase of McAfee for a packed-out audience at the Intel Developer Forum, Intel's Paul Otellini framed it as an effort to move the way the company approaches security "from a known-bad model to a known-good model." Otellini went on to briefly describe the shift in a way that sounded innocuous enough--current A/V efforts focus on building up a library of known threats against which they < 1284489680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protect a user, but Intel would love to move to a world where only code from known and trusted parties runs on x86 systems. It sounds sensible enough, so what could be objectionable about that?]] < 1284489682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1284489682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD < 1284489686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they AWESOME! < 1284489689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best processors ever < 1284489704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how they eat up so much power and get so hot for the same performance, and I'm buying one now < 1284489752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is unsure about today's SMBC
< 1284489816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tachyons are solutions to the SR equations that have imaginary mass, although I suppose they could have reverse causality. < 1284489830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are usually assumed to < 1284489847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, they move faster than light, which to Joe McLayman... < 1284489930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, time dilation is proportional to gamma. < 1284489969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), so for velocities over c, the time dilation is imaginary. < 1284490014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having negative time dilation would seem to be impossible, actually. < 1284490042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pros: This CPU should be my last in this lifetime [I am 80 and expect this will be more than sufficient to get me into my 90's!] The amazing factor to me [apart from the speed] is how cool it runs on the stock Intel heatsink and fan; I have the fan set on low!" < 1284490044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although because of the FtL-implies-time-travel thing, you could probably still use them to violate causality. < 1284490052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Newegg review of Core i7-980X Extreme Edition < 1284490062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not tachyons < 1284490072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the contemporary and widely accepted understanding of the concept of a particle, tachyon particles are too unstable to be treated as existent.[4] By that theory, faster than light information transmission and causality violation with tachyons are impossible. < 1284490073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1284490075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, assuming no interaction with matter. < 1284490079 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.246.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284490085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, assuming no interaction with matter. < 1284490102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the BORING way of looking at it. < 1284490161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because the total energy must be real" PAH, UNNECESSARY < 1284490224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFREED < 1284490323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284490337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typo that I liked. < 1284490357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstpersondonewithtest VICTORY < 1284490476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Phantom_Hoover: whatever that highlight was about: tl;dr, and bbl for a few hours again < 1284490495 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also here < 1284490499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how many wakeups/sec do you get < 1284490500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ubuntu < 1284490894 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which kernel? < 1284490923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1284490930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version you mean? < 1284490932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, .30, .31 or stock lucid? All on lucid. Varies widely between those < 1284490932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or patches? < 1284490935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, versions < 1284490943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stock, i guess < 1284490955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the custom ones much better? < 1284490967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, only because of less buggy with my hardware :P < 1284490985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, .27 (stock) on *jaunty* I got less than 10. Even with .27 on lucid I get more. Like 15 per seconds. < 1284490993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With stock above 50 / sec all the time < 1284491012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.31 around 10-30, varies quite widely < 1284491017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many should a non-insane person aim for? < 1284491027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.30 around the same as .27 with lucid (15 or so) < 1284491059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well... hard to say. With lucid I don't think you can get to the levels of jaunty. Probably user space changes < 1284491073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with stock: depends on if you have an intel core 2 duo < 1284491087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, technically < 1284491089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.33 ghz though < 1284491135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well depending on stepping you might hit the same bug I do. Which is that load balacing ticks sky rocket < 1284491145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically due to a race condition as far as I understand the bug < 1284491157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where one core tries to sleep but wakes the other or something like that < 1284491159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over and over again < 1284491187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which is why you get no lower than 50 / sec when idle. And average 100-140 / sec < 1284491194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284491250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, .31 doesn't have that bug (karmic had .31 iirc?) but it is still somewhat worse than .27 of jaunty. Probably a combination of user space and other kernel stuff < 1284491259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least not nearly as bad for battery time < 1284491299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, something else that will save power is turning off bluetooth if not used. Same goes for wlan. With turning off I mean rfkill or whatever you need to make it stop using it's antenna and so on < 1284491363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just click "Turn Off Bluetooth". < 1284491388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, HDCP is finally actually cracked now. < 1284491389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yeah hopefully yes. But I heard about some laptops where that isn't enough. On my thinkpad the GUI ways work < 1284491395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprised it took this long. < 1284491421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple matter of watching the HDMI bus on 40 devices and solving a system of equations. < 1284491436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, don't they realise that as long as they put the keys for encryption in *user accessible* hardware any DRM is futile in the long run? < 1284491452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am attempting to disable Wi-Fi... < 1284491453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, they don't. < 1284491454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you don't have physical security, just attach a logic probe < 1284491468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And they also really, really suck at doing encryption anyways. < 1284491490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do it all in one IC... In which it can still be done, just significantly trickier than if you can tab between two ICs < 1284491496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HDMI had "encryption" with a *linear function*. < 1284491504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Linear. Fucking. Function.* < 1284491504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, whoops < 1284491520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is only safe assuming a non-repeating key < 1284491526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find 40 coefficients and all possible keys are yours. < 1284491528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously not the case here < 1284491539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait, this sounds worse than WEP? < 1284491548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why yes, yes it is. < 1284491553 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1284491564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right click the network manager thingy < 1284491573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the icon in the menu bar I mean < 1284491575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean in hardware. < 1284491590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah well, for me doing it from there disables it the hw too < 1284491615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course, it might not < 1284491633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you want /sys/something/something/rfkill/rfkill1/something < 1284491635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1284491639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well replace the 1 there < 1284491644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the relevant number < 1284491651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one will be bluetooth < 1284491653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other wlan < 1284491656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hopefully* < 1284491684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in worst case rmmod of the module ought to disable the wlan < 1284491699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1284491707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else helps? < 1284491716 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you don't know the name work backwards from mac*802 (whatever the numbers are) < 1284491728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which your wlan module will depend on directly or indirectly < 1284491740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. Physical rfkill switch would I assume < 1284491742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have one < 1284491754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for wakeups < 1284491757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284491780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is hdaps running? (the daemon that uses the accelerometer to unload hd head)? < 1284491786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?$// < 1284491804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just hdaps? < 1284491805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it causes lots of wakeups, and if you have it on a stable table you could probably turn it off. < 1284491807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hdapsd, etc.? < 1284491815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err hdapsd I think < 1284491824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on a ... stable-ish table. < 1284491825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually. < 1284491855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, another thing that helps for me is unloading tg3 (ethernet module). Because networkmanager keeps polling it < 1284491868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use ethernet < 1284491874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ pgrep hdapsd < 1284491874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~$ < 1284491877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes. I switch < 1284491913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 646 ? 00:00:00 bluetooth < 1284491913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 659 ? 00:00:00 bluetoothd < 1284491914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1284491917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, other than that, powertop gives you suggestions. Checking those might be worth the job < 1284491923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the work involved < 1284491942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always plugged in so this is just or my amusement < 1284491947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in case i ever take it off power < 1284491955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284491957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDCP's actual encryption is with a perfectly sane stream cipher, not a "linear function". They had a linear key exchange thing, which means you could figure out the master key from 40 device keys, and therefore circumvent the key revocation mechanism, which is I guess what has now been done. < 1284491974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought you previously wanted long battery life because you were mobile a lot? < 1284492010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, right, it was just the key setup that was retarded. < 1284492020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, another thing that helps for reducing wakeups is usually suspend 2 ram ;P < 1284492030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspend 2 disk helps even more with power usage < 1284492062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what sort of *moron* does linear key exchange? < 1284492080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the sort that tech companies hire for DRM. < 1284492090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think I have an answer. < 1284492109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284492133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the techies that design this hate DRM. But their managers want it. The managers are stupid and don't know enough about this stuff. Thus they can just insert poor DRM < 1284492151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should be happy that they aren't competent < 1284492267 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.246.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284492273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: powertop shows one report then freezes my syste,m < 1284492275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system < 1284492277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even reisub recoverable < 1284492279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? < 1284492283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1284492285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root that is < 1284492294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have it running as root on my thinkpad atm < 1284492296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no issues < 1284492311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show72 / sec. But that is due to firefox running < 1284492315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall I had one box too where powertop managed to hang things up badly. Not sure which one it was. < 1284492325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm empty firefox window gives you 40 wakeups / sec? < 1284492350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:36:40 alise, I know you're logreading this, so please don't take offence. < 1284492350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just laughed at the idea of cpressey rabidly hating me :) < 1284492359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing of firefox: around 40 wakeups / s < 1284492369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but network is not completely idle < 1284492379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshfs is mounted so some keepalive sent I assume < 1284492456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, very strange that powertop issue. Was it possible to ssh in from another host? Did sysrq work? < 1284492498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said reisub didn't work, and you really think i'm going to try the former? < 1284492540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, my machine has frozen. Thankfully, I have an ssh server running on my personal box, so I will just boot up the slow computer next to me and try to connect. Maybe after that, I will hard-reboot! But only after writing a journal article and three poems about it." < 1284492829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, MORE OS DESIGN! < 1284492834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i said reisub didn't work, and you really think i'm going to try the former? <-- um. I have done that < 1284492848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always try the SSH thing, too, usually from the phone. < 1284492852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, in general I do have one running at home < 1284492859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on laptop < 1284492866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshfs and such :) < 1284492873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Even if the cause is /obvious/? < 1284492878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't run it on laptop at university. < 1284492879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? To salvage my... Chrome window? < 1284492918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if I forgot it running it would still be secure (key auth only, no pw) and only listens to a specific ip on eth0 and iptables filter all IPs but my desktop < 1284492938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if it works, it would help tell what crashed < 1284492940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Even if; doing the hard powercycling feels somehow dirty, I want to exhaust all possible remedies. < 1284492943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, maybe only X locked up < 1284492946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1284492956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so? < 1284492958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powertop is broken < 1284492964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i very much doubt it just crashed X < 1284492970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: don't run powertop < 1284492971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes. < 1284492973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284492978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not broken for me < 1284492981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no reason to boot up the slow machine and ssh in (and go back in time and start sshd) < 1284492983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: broken for me. < 1284492985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, must be your hardware it doesn't like < 1284493075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I can think of a few ways that powertop could cause issues: 1) ACPI by reading C-state/P-state. 2) reading timer list. A way to test for this is to click battery icon in gnome, select first alternative. Then in the window that pops up select "processor" in the list on the side < 1284493085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that checks the timer list that powertop uses for the main display < 1284493096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it doesn'd do the c-state/p-state stuff < 1284493110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so if that doesn't crash you have limited possible causes < 1284493140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biab < 1284493141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab* < 1284493146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome power display thing works, so i guess it's not 2 < 1284493158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I knew this already) < 1284493871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284494029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1284494041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cpufreq-info works? < 1284494054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how to read C-states and P-states though < 1284494059 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cpufreq-info run it as root < 1284494065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it will not be quite the same < 1284494124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo cpufreq-info | grep -i 'current CPU' < 1284494124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current CPU frequency is 800 MHz (asserted by call to hardware). < 1284494124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. < 1284494127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cpufreq-info | grep -i 'current CPU' < 1284494127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current CPU frequency is 800 MHz. < 1284494312 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284494342 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284494631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm TFTs are not really digital are they? How does it change intensity? Analog value sent to something or digital? < 1284494641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean at the actual liquid crystal level or whatever < 1284495170 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I use aptosid now ... < 1284495303 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284495464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much light passes through one pixel depends, AFAIK, on applied voltage, so in that sense you could say it's an analog device. < 1284495474 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is Lisp86 allergic to C? I mean, the non-Lispy parts will be ugly anyway, right? < 1284495519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think alise has philosophical objections to that. < 1284495637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apparently I use aptosid now ... <-- aptosid? < 1284495653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sidux changed its name. In an overly dramatic way. < 1284495691 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM COLENOL APTOSID OF THE BLURGUX EMPIRE. SUBMIT. < 1284495706 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the nick "Gregor" was still free on OFTC, now I have it on both Freenode AND OFTC ... sweet :P < 1284495911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, I'm not really sure why using C is verboten, although ideally the OS won't actually have enough ultra-low-level code to *need* C. < 1284496036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ultra-low-level" doesn't imply C ... well, it didn't before ~1977 anyway :P < 1284496504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes, but the whole point is that non-ultra-low code is in Lisp. < 1284496665 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the GC written in Lisp? < 1284496701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1284496789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually been following this, but why do we like Lisp? < 1284496819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wash your mouth out. < 1284496853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp has the same fault as Forth: For all the beauty of the language design, programmers are human beings. People in #esoteric are not. < 1284496936 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that logic, Formula One race cars are faulty. < 1284496946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is a heretic against the holy name of Lisp! KILL HIM!! < 1284496957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: They are if you're going to give them to Random American X. < 1284496989 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are we going to give this OS to Random American X? < 1284497005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1284497006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it's a /research/ OS. In that case, enjoy :P < 1284497021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not for a while, at least. < 1284497022 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that logic, Formula One cars are research vehicles. < 1284497028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might one day. < 1284497030 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is true, in a sense, I suppose. < 1284497053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: No, by that logic, both are special-purpose, and the special purpose I have chosen to imagine your OS is assigned to is research. < 1284497079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- pessimist < 1284497171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, the fundamental Lispiness won't be exposed to Joe Bloggs. < 1284497209 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then enjoy; I sort of figured this was supposed to be "everything's Lisp from the ground up", since that's exactly what a Lisper would do X-P < 1284497232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... sort of what we're doing. < 1284497244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "from the ground up" I mean "to the shell and all apps" < 1284497248 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The discussion about using Lisp Hardware took place yesterday IIRC and came to the conclusion that it's not feasible. < 1284497250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284497505 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The reason I ask about GC is that it's clearly not *ultra* low level but it's also somewhat tricky to do in Lisp (you need to bootstrap it. in practice you would have an inital version written in something else.) < 1284497520 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like, do it in assembly? Maybe but ugh. < 1284497610 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think the most reasonable assumption about nigh all projects discussed in this channel is that they are for entertainment rather than production or research. That's one reason I chose the analogy I did with the race car. But maybe that's just me. < 1284497644 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: Yeah, I'm just being a jerk :P < 1284497653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: Since alise was actually being compliant, I had to be the jerk. < 1284497781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, yeah this is why we're kidnapping you, Gregor and Vorpal to actually code it for us. < 1284497795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1284497839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, because. < 1284497865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the Device, in case you've forgotten. < 1284497872 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfffff. < 1284497876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Device doesn't scare me! < 1284497924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points it in the general direction of Oregon.
< 1284497947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION giggles.
< 1284497949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nooooooooooooooo! < 1284497953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION giggles more.
< 1284497985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See! It has induced uncontrollable giggling in you! < 1284497996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not pointing it at me, but suuuuuuure it is. < 1284498080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Device works in mysterious ways! < 1284498117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points it at Indiana this time.
< 1284498220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nooooooooooooose! < 1284498240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Device knows where you live, in any case. < 1284498246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE US HAS TOO MANY DAMN STATES < 1284498259 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I actually am in Indiana :P < 1284498264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIFTY‽ I can name like 10! < 1284498285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably can't name all fifty :P < 1284498317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, get in the plane. < 1284498330 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284498352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no plane. < 1284498357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a helicopter here with my name on it. < 1284498360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I see no plane. < 1284498389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get in the helicopter, then. < 1284498395 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284498409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, upon further inspection, it's an autogyro. < 1284498431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever it is, get in it. < 1284498537 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure what this is, but I think it's something one gets ON, not IN. < 1284498540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archipelago < 1284498563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can name a lot of us states but not nearly all < 1284498592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can you name all the states of the UK?! < 1284498596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, inspect thing. < 1284498615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know how to "inspect" a thing. < 1284498619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland. < 1284498630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can't name all counties of England. < 1284498640 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australia, Canada, India. < 1284498644 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well not India anymore. < 1284498657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Isle of Man and Gibraltar! < 1284498664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I have no idea what their statuses are :P < 1284498677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: Those are not states :P < 1284498678 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to hold an esoconference in Kergeulen
< 1284498684 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(France) < 1284498699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, those were colonies. < 1284498699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1284498701 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-221-199.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1284498704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, islands. < 1284498710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are no indigenous inhabitants, but France maintains a permanent presence of 50 to 100 scientists, engineers and researchers." < 1284498711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring < 1284498714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sealand < 1284498733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: now they're... members of the commonwealth, apart from india. < 1284498740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Surely there must be a plumber or two :P < 1284498740 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, boring < 1284498748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NO PLUMBERS < 1284498755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: A barber ... < 1284498756 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284498759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: xDD < 1284498760 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably no plumbING < 1284498844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31417429&l=cd8ecd0e3f&id=1055580469 < 1284498853 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1284498859 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All's I know is that we still have a portrait of the Queen in every hockey rink. < 1284498904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I thought there was a spiffy little rotate button in Preview? < 1284498939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I realised that when you remove the ram/disk distinction you might as well take the next natural step < 1284498940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but it didn't work. < 1284498953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apparently Facebook ignores the EXIF rotate tag X_X < 1284498954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, more detail needed. < 1284498958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh. < 1284498961 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: remove the 0/1 distinction? < 1284498964 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OM < 1284498967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, .... < 1284498978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, network/computer < 1284498980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1284498983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, closer! < 1284498996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remove the "host" distinction. A cluster would be little more than an extreme NUMA system. < 1284499005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's alise's evil masterplan. < 1284499008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you still want to limit this, you don't trust all hosts < 1284499015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like microsoft.com < 1284499017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1284499017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: already been done < 1284499026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ram is cache of disk is cache of global networked magic < 1284499029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? link? < 1284499031 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragonflymumblesd < 1284499035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uhh no specific links < 1284499043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, any name of project then? < 1284499043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C Guy Yarvin has it in his ultra-abstract Urbit system < 1284499051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc Stanislav of Loper OS is toying with similar ideas < 1284499062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, nobody's been crazy enough to actually do it /yet/ < 1284499064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am probably wrong though < 1284499071 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's ever been done *successfully*, but so many people are trying that it's kind of boring imo < 1284499071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Inferno still had the mem/fs distinction right? < 1284499076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284499079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically plan 9 in a vm < 1284499080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the problem is zooko's triangle < 1284499083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course Inferno was right in other bits, like the JITing < 1284499090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to identify one object in a sea of seven hundred billion trillion < 1284499096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to be decentralised < 1284499097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1284499102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and secure < 1284499105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure, you need some efficient algorithms for it < 1284499109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you also want human-meaningful; i.e. memorable < 1284499119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a huge meaningless string of IPs and rubbish < 1284499123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and security, hm, ethernet cluster? Could be completely trusted < 1284499125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since objects can be so much more than data calculations < 1284499129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why run IP over it < 1284499136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nonono, you use internet here; anyway, it was just an example < 1284499137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e.g. < 1284499140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object can be an application < 1284499142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if someone tells you < 1284499148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not sure latency and bw is acceptable over internet < 1284499154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go to ieuf98es7wyf89w3y598yh985yf983q2y5c982q3hjc9832qur98qhy98rq3h498fhc9q83h5c98h435c, it's the coolest mumble jumble application ever to fumble." < 1284499157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course depends on how you use it < 1284499163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very nice < 1284499166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you run into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko's_triangle < 1284499167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1284499177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you basically have to cheat somehow < 1284499178 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loses interest
< 1284499180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the hard part < 1284499185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was thinking cluster-scale rather than global-scale < 1284499188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: it's cool because it's part of the wider design < 1284499188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, there was a man with "Zooko" as his last name. < 1284499192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at which this is not really an issue < 1284499193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: global scale is cooler -- < 1284499204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you get to encrypt all your own stuff by default < 1284499207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that anyone can download your stuff < 1284499209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course, but learning to crawl before flying and so on < 1284499209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that they can't decrypt it < 1284499218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also allows source-independent networking < 1284499222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :networking without a sender header < 1284499262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cool and even one of the designers of TCP/IP says it's the right way :P < 1284499264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Van Jacobson) < 1284499347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1284499358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm awesome < 1284499366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tricky as hell though < 1284499389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happens in the face of offline usage here though < 1284499409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I had some question I really wanted to ask but I've forgotten it. < 1284499421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like, say, I'm somewhere with no connection whatsoever, except satellite phone < 1284499428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, say, polar expedition < 1284499696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think it may have had something to do with Gregor's comments. < 1284499737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's why disk caches the interwebnets < 1284499743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, the bits you access < 1284499758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a bit more tricky than caching disk in ram since the net isn't so much of a permanent storage mechanism :) < 1284499765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hard to tell what to cache, which would be a slower process < 1284499776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely something for the pipe-dream-from-the-position-of-an-already-pipish-dream OS < 1284499780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the pipe-dream OS < 1284499940 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31417429&l=cd8ecd0e3f&id=1055580469 Fix't :P < 1284500029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is a bit more tricky than caching disk in ram since the net isn't so much of a permanent storage mechanism :) <-- indeed < 1284500062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I would suggest aiming for local, then cluster level. Before even attempting global scale < 1284500078 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284500088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, what do you think of the JIT model of inferno? < 1284500097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it something like that you aim for? < 1284500108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seems like a sane way to do it) < 1284500227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably something like that. < 1284500243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1284500334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As to his OS comments or his money picture? < 1284500340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a tablety touchscreeny computer now. < 1284500342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: latter < 1284500348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor made no OS comments. < 1284500362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want to make a tablety touchscreeny computer now. ;; primarily for the OS, that is. < 1284500572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see a nonsucky OS for such a device :P < 1284500584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or really, I want to see a nonsucky interface. < 1284500585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284500588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS is kind of uninteresting. < 1284500642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, yeah, that's what I mean. < 1284500689 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284500690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It'd probably be Linux-based, just for the geek-out factor. And, uh, the massive amount of applications factor. < 1284500694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284500708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welllll < 1284500709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tweaking Chromium excessively rated as far easier than writing a new browser from scratch) < 1284500719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: With water in it? < 1284500721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you're going to get the massive amount of applications factor if the interface is new and unique < 1284500778 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off-topic again? < 1284500791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, they'd look remarkably like an ugly Linux application stuffed into fullscreen with a tiny bit of UI around it. < 1284500809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fair enough. < 1284500810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if they're like, say, an editor, where you have a toolbar and shit and then just a big expanse of text that is fine being stretched, it'd be fine. < 1284500816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even an IRC client. < 1284500837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Form factor is important. Requires thinking. < 1284500841 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: thanks for your question! i've filed it in the queue. < 1284500852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure how much X11 will like an overlayed touchscreen keyboard, but there's only one way to find out! < 1284500880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Idonno, Matchbox seems to have managed it, though that's now very olde. < 1284500882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'll have Bluetooth and maybe some way to use USB so don't whine about not being able to use a real keyboard kthx.) < 1284500896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB would be via an adapter though, otherwise it'd be way too thick. < 1284500907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hee, Openmoko. < 1284500911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have an OTG port. < 1284500913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wonderfully shit. < 1284500916 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try something weird now: going to bed on the right side of midnight < 1284500916 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-87.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1284500931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying matchbox is a good interface (Openmoko used matchbox?), I'm saying it had on-screen keyboards :P < 1284500943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openmoko used Matchbox on the Neo 1973. < 1284500965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/1112FIC326x550.jpg < 1284500970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dig that brushed metal UI. < 1284500979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: By "dig" I mean "vomit".) < 1284500987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess when it was released? < 1284500988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain. < 1284500988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong! < 1284500989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007. < 1284500994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two thousand and fucking seven they released this. < 1284501001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How amazing is that? < 1284501010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ... that doesn't look like Matchbox to me :P < 1284501015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be a very customized Mathcbox. < 1284501018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Matchbox < 1284501020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably ruined it, like they ruined everything in existence ever. < 1284501027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with abstracting away fs/memory distinction, how do you handle stuff like cds and usb sticks? Would still be useful to communicate with other systems < 1284501038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even kept that ludicrous form factor for the successor phone. < 1284501047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't so orange/metally, though. So there's an improvement. A single improvement. < 1284501052 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1284501053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 3G because 3G isn't ~FREE AS IN FIEFDOM~ < 1284501058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just GSM. < 1284501074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are just objects! Like everything :P < 1284501083 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet the browser sucked foot. < 1284501092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, objects wrapping file systems? < 1284501096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Probably more than foot. < 1284501100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, you mean filesystems. < 1284501119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uhh... probably it'll have some sort of filesystem compatibility API if we stoop so low to allow that kind of rabble. < 1284501120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, if I want to get some data stored on an ISOwhatever < 1284501133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it'll happily ask you if you want to format it to store objects! < 1284501138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or what if I want to load images from my camera's flash card < 1284501142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses FAT32 < 1284501152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, these images I would store into a set < 1284501153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although saying "yes" would be a sign of insanity, as there are guaranteed to be no other systems that can read it on your continent.) < 1284501154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the disk < 1284501157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1284501160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into the object space < 1284501175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, it'd probably have a FAT32-as-nested-tree compatibility layer or whatever. < 1284501181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT32-as-nested-tree-with-extra-filesystem-functions, and whatnot. < 1284501188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would be useful yes < 1284501190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for such cases < 1284501195 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes slightly interested again
< 1284501206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: You became interested when I wsa boring and old? < 1284501207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1284501218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, FAT12/16/32 is about what is needed I think. Oh and ISOwhatever & UDF for cds. < 1284501221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's a OTG *micro* plug! < 1284501225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even smaller than a mini plug! < 1284501232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't really need any support for other file systems < 1284501237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO SMALL IT IS ACTUALLY INVISIBLE TO THE NATIVE EYE < 1284501241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah. < 1284501248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... "native"? :P < 1284501251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who wants to read a Linux filesystem is a FAG. < 1284501254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NAKED < 1284501255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEVER < 1284501261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natives have been known to be naked! < 1284501275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can OTG still deliver the same amount of power? < 1284501283 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in general. < 1284501292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In specific? < 1284501292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how will the actual object storage be done? Got any relevant links or such to read? < 1284501306 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I became interested imagining how filesystems-as-we-know-them and your objectspace could seamlessly coexist < 1284501309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The device will have batteries made of magic unicorns and use 0.0004 W, so. < 1284501312 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think that's an implementation question, not a standards question. That is, a given OTG implementation may choose to do better. < 1284501316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have power spare! < 1284501319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mmh. < 1284501343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in general they refuse to provide more than whatever the default minimum is (100mA?) < 1284501346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and will the language for your OS use dependant typing and so on? < 1284501359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Naive form: Pick binary object serialisation format. Set up some sort of on-disk paging mechanism to map The Address Space to disk. Allocate spaces on disk when you allocate objects (of a reasonable lifespan, perhaps, blah blah). < 1284501372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serialise dirty objects -- or have them serialise themselves -- every (small interval). < 1284501382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Uh, the Dream Ideal OS? Who nkws < 1284501383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knows! < 1284501389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so perfect that I don't know what it is. < 1284501403 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell me where to start coding < 1284501405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, but how will we keep track of the objects. I mean, If I want to find some text I wrote about something before < 1284501407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I access it < 1284501417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with an FS I have the obvious root to start at < 1284501427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then walk to wherever I want to < 1284501429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here? < 1284501437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well obviously you can browse object space with queries and such < 1284501442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most likely you'd have an indexing server < 1284501448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set to index stuff created as normal text or whatever < 1284501453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than as a transient calculated object) < 1284501462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to be certain about any of this before it's tried out < 1284501467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's clearly /workable/ < 1284501501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well lets say I just want to go back to that university-assignment-object that I worked on yesterday (but I closed it for some reason, never mind what). What would be the most likely way to re-locate it < 1284501533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [Magic Search Keybinding] yesterday whatever-your-university-is-called-or-a-segment-of-the-essay-title-or-whatever. < 1284501540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284501545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "ultra-quick magic search" interface that you start off with will magically interpret specific words, most likely.) < 1284501551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could finetune it afterwards.) < 1284501567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, interesting. Would there be some sort of tags to group all assignments together < 1284501577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to create something like the views of gmail or such < 1284501579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, I guess. < 1284501590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that this is all random ramblings by someone who, like everyone, hasn't done it yet :) < 1284501618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I believe it could be done though. And should be done. What is going on with loper OS for example? < 1284501622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think I've thought about it enough to know that there is a solution < 1284501624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also it reminds me of smalltalk < 1284501626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not certain what it is yet < 1284501629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is one of my top inspirations < 1284501630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the top < 1284501644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a great shame Smalltalk the OS was never pursued further < 1284501662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so a lot of the parts are around, just not in one place and at an OS level? < 1284501674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Loper OS -- Stanislav is busy fantasising about building an FPGA Lisp Machine and masturbating to his Symbolics machines. < 1284501679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Restate that less crudely if you desire.) < 1284501681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and writing blog posts. < 1284501684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I want a concept compositing operator :P < 1284501694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that be nice. < 1284501695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be sweet < 1284501700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284501703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1284501721 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you realize what i could do to your house with only $50 worth of dynamite? jeez < 1284501729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know, if any of this had come up in 2007/2008, I bet you'd be defending REAL PROPER UNIX over these insane unworkable systems :-D < 1284501734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like smalltalk . lisp . haskell . dependant typing < 1284501736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1284501739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: Are you _entirely_ sober? < 1284501750 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's re the latest post on the loper os blog < 1284501754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no comments < 1284501774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We've poisoned you! Mwahahaha! < 1284501775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, however, I bet you will continue using *nix based systems for years to come. Rather than actually do this < 1284501775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: ah < 1284501780 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Stanislav is a little... out of perspective sometimes < 1284501787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, I'll do it if I can. < 1284501790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just won't use it. < 1284501792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll iterate forever. :) < 1284501799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um? why not use it? < 1284501804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it isn't perfect yet! < 1284501821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you can't have second system syndrome until you have a *first* system < 1284501825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I have rather less free time than as of this time last year, so who knows how quickly progress will go. < 1284501828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless unix is the first system < 1284501830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284501830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the first system is everything else! < 1284501836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1284501837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it < 1284501840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically unix is like < 1284501841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is second system syndrome < 1284501846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third system < 1284501853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first and second systems were on the right track < 1284501856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix came and ruined it all < 1284501856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, but not for you personally < 1284501860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's fourth system syndrome < 1284501868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to improve on the first and second without having them < 1284501891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the first and second ones being? < 1284501902 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284501909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ehh -- lisp machines, some aspects of Multics... < 1284501915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are others, I've just forgotten them. < 1284501917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even Forth?) < 1284501920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I'd love to just be able to pull up an inspector on anything, just like in genera, or squeak. Genera more so iirc. < 1284501929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my browser window < 1284501930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. very. < 1284501931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1284501945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, should be possible. < 1284501955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as the system will be source-only and obviously have a nice debugger, that's easy < 1284501955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pretty useless for most apps here < 1284501966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no symbolic info relevant to it and so on < 1284501967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be able to fiddle about with anything < 1284501973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modify code on the fly < 1284501976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1284501980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the web page it's rendering underneath it < 1284501981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1284501987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how useful would this be to non-geeks I wonder < 1284501999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... ideally the user/programmer distinction should be eliminated < 1284502007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a programmer is just a sufficiently advanced user < 1284502009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you think that is realistic? < 1284502012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately: no. < 1284502015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right now, at least. < 1284502016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so compilation will just be a cache for certain things < 1284502024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :337.584, 206.268 < 1284502025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe when this generation has its kids. < 1284502027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, look at the average user < 1284502034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, ignore those numbers. < 1284502047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're getting better at adjusting to change, due to its accelerating rate. < 1284502048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I doubt it. Look at those in your age. Most aren't geeks < 1284502057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are aiming for 2 generations ahead at least < 1284502059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but they can use a computer, and more importantly, they're better at adjusting to change < 1284502076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at this age. Everyone gets more set in their ways as they grow older < 1284502076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'll be more up-to-date when they're raising their kids, giving their kids a better bootstrap < 1284502078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1284502082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you too will < 1284502085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but not really: < 1284502090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not true of everyone, certainly not < 1284502103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are incredibly flexible, high-tech, intelligent old people < 1284502110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think this is becoming more common < 1284502115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, certainly. The majority though? nah < 1284502116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rate of change is accelerating and i believe we're adapting. < 1284502119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you SEEN this generation try to program? < 1284502125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humanity isn't a constant < 1284502137 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: do tell do tell. < 1284502139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i never said this generation could do that in particular < 1284502151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying we're adapting to become better adapters :) < 1284502165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is rambling. < 1284502174 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to grow up with duck types... < 1284502186 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, duck typING. < 1284502189 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no "duck types" < 1284502193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, duck types? I *wished* we had duck types. < 1284502196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I believe the system will not be useful to non-geeks because it will be totally unlike anything they've learned, making people hate it, < 1284502198 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1284502206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had *Javascript's* typing. < 1284502207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also because it won't have the backwards-compatibility of their current machines. < 1284502212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I despair watching most other CS students of my year program. One or two manage yes. But out of maybe 15 or so only a few are anything near my level. And these are not your average people. They are after all second year CS students. Which implies that all have some interest in the area and managed the first year... < 1284502215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coercion in the extreme. < 1284502216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although web apps are making that less prevalent, what's the point of running this just for a browser? < 1284502289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I must agree with Vorpal here; very very very few people are good programmers. < 1284502293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true backwards compat likely will be whatever-you-call-a-killer-feature-that-isn't-there < 1284502299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad, but likely < 1284502319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they tend to go for less boring careers in mathematics or the sciences, I think. < 1284502335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, perhaps. < 1284502342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A mother-feature! < 1284502347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what will probably happen to me. < 1284502409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, basically I feel like I'm surrounded by morons there. Sure, morons that try as far as their ability allow them to. But still morons. There just just one other person I could discuss topics covered in this channel with really. < 1284502432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, basically, yes. < 1284502433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not all of those topics < 1284502453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and he previously worked at a call center. Poor him. < 1284502456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think societal pressures contribute largely to this, though.) < 1284502477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it has to be said that #esoteric is a rather above-average sample. < 1284502492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually showing any extracurricular interest in computing results in you being branded a nerd and being ostracised... < 1284502503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: it has to be said that #esoteric is a rather above-average sample. <-- true < 1284502513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, crazy keyboard idea: < 1284502526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, even the worst people in here are above average. And I'm not naming any names. But virtual worlds comes to mind. < 1284502528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's a little eject button that prolapses^Wlets out a keyboard shoved inside the machine's body. < 1284502541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a hinge that can somehow support it, so you can basically turn it into a pretty-strange horizontal laptop. < 1284502550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bit of a small screen. < 1284502570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sgeo's right here < 1284502580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he may be a necrophiliac and think PSOX is a good idea but he's not stupid :P < 1284502581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who? No I didn't mention any names < 1284502587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the /other/ virtual worlds fan! < 1284502591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that is. < 1284502607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284502623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually I meant the two other fans < 1284502627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever they are < 1284502633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some of our idlers < 1284502635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1284502647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an awful lot of idlers. < 1284502653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually showing any extracurricular interest in computing results in you being branded a nerd and being ostracised... <-- I haven't seen that so much actually < 1284502654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a very small channel that is nonetheless active. < 1284502664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1284502667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say there are maybe 10 people who talk more than once every three plus months. < 1284502672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's an overestimate, I'd wager. < 1284502689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think it sounds like a pretty good estimate < 1284502699 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Megazeux count as a virtual world? < 1284502702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a screen that can shrink. < 1284502713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, few talk like me and you though. fizzie should make one of them graphs again < 1284502719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with data from the last year < 1284502724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey you ^ < 1284502725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get a smallish laptop with a keyboard, slide the keyboard back in, press the magic button, and it turns into a handheld tablet. < 1284502743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, me, alise, Sgeo, cpressey_, coppro, ais523, augur, fizzie, Gregor, nooga, oerjan, oklopol, pikhq at least/ < 1284502745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And nobody talks like me with the same amount of intelligence in every line! < 1284502754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: There's a little eject button that prolapses^Wlets out a keyboard shoved inside the machine's body. <-- you mean like thinkpad with butterfly keyboard? < 1284502758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, that's fourteen. < 1284502759 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with button? < 1284502759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 14 at least/ < 1284502761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no :P < 1284502768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I've been working on a new compression algorithm < 1284502774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1284502776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Imagine an iPad (I assume you at least know what one /looks/ like; if not, imagine a big iPhone) < 1284502788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now imagine a little pushed-in-slot on the side with an eject button. < 1284502795 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284502802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you press it, it spits out a physical keyboard from inside the device, and snaps into position when it is taken fully out. < 1284502812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know what an ipad looks like, though not in detail (as in I seen photos, and I presume it as a power button hidden somewhere and a few such things) < 1284502813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now imagine that somehow there's a hinge-type dealie which can support this in a laptop position. < 1284502830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1284502834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, interesting < 1284502845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now imagine that the thing is bigger, so that it's a regular style laptop, except it has a button which shrinks it to sanely-holdable-like-an-iPad size if the keyboard is in.) < 1284502845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, me. I don't have time for that right now, but I'll keep that in mind and try to remember to make some more up-to-date graphs. < 1284502847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it would have to be a very flat keyboard < 1284502850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last bit is a bit fantastical. < 1284502858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, well, it's already magical, you can't expect miracles. < 1284502860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think getting a model m feeling would be realistic < 1284502875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can make scissor-switches quite pleasant. But hey, it's better than a touchscreen keyboard by far. < 1284502886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...besides, if you want a Model M: < 1284502899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buy a Unicomp with a USB port (Model M power requirements are ludicrous even when adapted to USB). < 1284502903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, model M *terminal edition* ;P < 1284502907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a USB<->USB On-The-Go cable. < 1284502912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plug in to device. < 1284502917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy lugging around forever. < 1284502922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contemplate waste of life. < 1284502932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, sadly it is not realistic < 1284502940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pfft, Model F indahouse. < 1284502955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, model F? < 1284502958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it had the strangest layout imaginable, but that magnetic hall-effect thing? < 1284502961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best keyfeel ever! < 1284502963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've never used one.) < 1284502972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the keyboard that is better than the model M and predates it < 1284502975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, link or something? I get completely irrelevant hits < 1284502982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardcore keyboard fans of the Model M-type disposition love it < 1284502987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and magnetic hall effect is awesome everywhere < 1284502987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://geekhack.org/ < 1284502988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284502992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly-relevant fact: at my old school, all computing classes stopped completely at 13-14. < 1284502993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my joystick uses it < 1284502995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a geeky keyboard, geekhack, always. < 1284502997 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no noisy pots < 1284503004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, every key on the Model F is that. < 1284503016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an even heavier press than the Model M, I think. < 1284503018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where on there is the "search" < 1284503028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh? < 1284503029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think you might have to log in. < 1284503032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope: < 1284503033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=38 < 1284503038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the header of that forum. < 1284503043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a search link. < 1284503048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably you just want to search in reviews and pictures. < 1284503050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284503056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And titles only. < 1284503072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1284503073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name the three letter acronym of a common computer interface used for peripherals such as keyboards and mice." < 1284503082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSF! (The F is for Forwardslash Two) < 1284503106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10909 < 1284503107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went for USB < 1284503108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Model F porn < 1284503108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked < 1284503123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, wait, surely you'd heard me bitch about my schools idiotic computing course before/ < 1284503130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, Ctrl is in what some people consider the Right Place. < 1284503134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, Alt is where Ctrl is on modern keyboards. < 1284503137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh why does it show full size in the thread < 1284503142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try refreshing < 1284503143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and enabling js < 1284503144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about COM? < 1284503149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes it's a pain < 1284503151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mice used to be serial back when I first started using them < 1284503161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that model F porn is actually just one picture < 1284503166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keyboards used a DIN interface, that's another < 1284503170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ADB! < 1284503177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of that one < 1284503182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it did say "common". < 1284503189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the beautiful original Apple bus < 1284503196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: used S-Video cables < 1284503200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very, very simple protocol < 1284503201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or LPT. Though that also is not so terribly "common". < 1284503202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Woz designed it) < 1284503209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Desktop_Bus < 1284503216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: LPT was rarely used for things like keyboard and mice < 1284503218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?s=0c174c8b14d11bdf94a6cd991f87bc4e&t=10987&highlight=Model < 1284503230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and you find your new favourite keyboard. :P < 1284503235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do all sorts of weird things with it to be able to both send and receive, normally LPT was for send-only devices like printers < 1284503235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOOAAAR KEEEYS < 1284503238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Rarely, but still used. Especially for DIY keyboardy adapters. < 1284503244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, non-clickly I presume < 1284503248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with hall effect < 1284503251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, clicky < 1284503256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine the model m feel < 1284503259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except while model m is 8 < 1284503261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 11 < 1284503262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in which way does it use the hall effect? < 1284503266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows < 1284503266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I seem to remember duplex-parallel worked by reversing the directions of four of the data lines; you needed hardware support to pull that off) < 1284503268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it goes to 11! < 1284503269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's hall-effect < 1284503271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is < 1284503280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really expensive insanely authentically clicky method < 1284503287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people love it < 1284503300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, parallel port was used for pretty fast bidirectional data transfer, c.f. LapLink. < 1284503310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1284503315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: while you fawn over the idea of a 122-keyboard, I wish I had enough money to buy http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/pdkb400wn_iso_th620x400.jpg :P < 1284503319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you happen to notice me Forthing your "cancel fractions" task? (Though not very well.) < 1284503343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($265! But they ARE Topre keyswitches... and it DOES have DIP switches on the back for configuration...) < 1284503351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I couldn't fit a 122 key keyboard :( < 1284503351 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh. yes. that. < 1284503383 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284503394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_, yes, that. < 1284503435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: geekhack is a great way to waste hours if you're a keyboard nerd, or to develop a keyboard nerdiness if you don't already possess one < 1284503447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go around thinking "oh, buckling springs are absolutely fine for me" and then BOOM < 1284503449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I also wrote a sort of a "in the spirit of it" Befunge implementation, which "works" for some values of "works": it's just that the Befunge-93 playfield only stores characters, not full-stack-cell-width numbers, and storing in multiple playfield cells would've taken far too much space; and the only built-in number output forcibly puts that space after it, which is not so good when it needs "nnn/mmm". < 1284503464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they start talking about the nuances and tweaking of tiny little switches made of individually-hand-carved, living gnomes < 1284503465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, alas I do find that I like one that doesn't require too much force. Model M feeling but less force would be perfect < 1284503471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with little velvet cussions at the bottom < 1284503492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cherry MX Blue (if you like the insipid, unuseful "click") or Brown (if you don't; they still clack, just not an actual TIC! type of click) < 1284503510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer less sound in fact < 1284503513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or Topre, which is like typing on silk and velvet with tactile feedback; very gentle switches, expensive as hell. Capacitative! < 1284503530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1284503533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're made of a rubber dome-style membrane, and /underneath/ they have a spring on top of the circuit. < 1284503545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The circuit is capacitative. < 1284503553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can imagine how much they cost. < 1284503556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but F24 would be just awesome. I would design programs that required you to use those keys to operate. Just to mess around with people < 1284503562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and thirdly for Forth it didn't accept my version that outputted a " " after some of the lines (the ones that had "n/m" instead of just "n"), don't quite know why. I guess it's conceivable that "ignore trailing space in line" only applies when there is trailing space in all the lines, or something. < 1284503569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600-key keyboard < 1284503572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use it on ascii systems < 1284503575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haha < 1284503593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a lovely keyboard design with every fucking keyboard rolled into one by one of the geekhack members, think i've linked it here before < 1284503593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme find it < 1284503600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not go for full Chinese keyboard? < 1284503601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even < 1284503608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete BMP keyboard < 1284503612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in Unicode BMP < 1284503616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: complete unicode < 1284503622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{N} keyboard < 1284503625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{Z} keyboard < 1284503628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{Q} keyboard < 1284503630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{R} keyboard < 1284503633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{C} keyboard < 1284503633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh < 1284503636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete \mathbb{2^R} keyboard < 1284503637 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncountable keyboard? < 1284503643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not 2^ as blackboard bold ofc < 1284503645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHY NOT < 1284503647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be quite tricky to use < 1284503654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every two keys have a little door between them, see < 1284503660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you push it apart with two fingernails < 1284503663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it expands into stairs < 1284503666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading down to a room < 1284503672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the numbers between those two numbers < 1284503672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1284503675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on, forever < 1284503684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you walk all the way back up to your infinitely-long computer room < 1284503697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, the lighting goes out. < 1284503720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as long as the magic is not based on electricity you should be fine < 1284503725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is it sounds lethal < 1284503739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it's just your average TARDIS-technology door < 1284503741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was once thinking of a 256+8-key BMP keyboard; have a 16x16 grid to select the low eight bits, and 8 toggle-style keys that you use to "program" in the higher eight bits. Then you can comfortably keep all the toggles off when you're writing regular ASCII text. (And then you can do the million-dollar version that updates the keycap pictures whenever the toggles are changed). < 1284503742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("It's bigger on the inside.") < 1284503767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 64+9-key would be rather more practical. < 1284503785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-handed keying is quite popular, anyway. < 1284503797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we don't need to speculate on the reasons why, to nip that topic in the proverbial bud. < 1284503815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I say one-handed keying because 64 isn't the whole standard keyboard set, of course.) < 1284503826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely you'd have the alphabet + common punctuation on the first "plane". < 1284503852 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder... if I covered the walls of my cubicle with keyswitches... < 1284503865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oerjan told me R^2 was bijectable to R! < 1284503869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain this! < 1284503876 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I'd have to reach further. But the sheer number of switches could start to compenstate for that. < 1284503928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think tiny LCDs would cost millions? < 1284503933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thousands yes < 1284503936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not millions < 1284503944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That was just some hyperbolism. < 1284503949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1284503952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, have a 16 wide by 4 high main keying area, plus a 3x3 modifier pad. < 1284503962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 16 wide is a bit much. < 1284503964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, 8x8. < 1284503974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could type everything two-handed! < 1284503983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, oerjan told me R^2 was bijectable to R! < 1284503987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true of any infinite set < 1284503992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i think it depends on the axiom of choice... < 1284503997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indee.. wha? < 1284504006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, even the worst people in here are above average. And I'm not naming any names. But virtual worlds comes to mind. <-- "But you ruin _one_ keyboard..." < 1284504007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is not bijectable to N, surely? < 1284504015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For another indication of the controversy that initially surrounded the Axiom of Choice, consider this anecdote (recounted by Jan Mycielski in Notices of the AMS vol. 53 no. 2 page 209). Tarski, one of the early great researchers in set theory and logic, proved that AC is equivalent to the statement that any infinite set X has the same cardinality as the Cartesian product X x X. He submitted his article < 1284504015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Comptes Rendus Acad. Sci. Paris, where it was refereed by two very famous mathematicians, Fréchet and Lebesgue. Both wrote letters rejecting the article. Fréchet wrote that an implication between two well known truths is not a new result. And Lebesgue wrote that an implication between two false statements is of no interest. Tarski said that he never again submitted a paper to the Comptes Rendus. < 1284504024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean < 1284504031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just for the reference, the Optimus Maximus, which I think has the regular set of ~100 keys and a 48x48 pixel 64k-color display on each key, costs 1400 eur here in Finland. < 1284504044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|A^2| = |A| for |A| >= Aleph_0 < 1284504059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Optimus Maximus is so silly. < 1284504064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it doesn't even use nice keyswitches. < 1284504075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sure it has horrible feel to it. < 1284504086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"10 frames per second minimum" < 1284504093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just know they were going for the ridiculous-keyboard-movie aspect there < 1284504099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not their thinly-veiled excuse for a purpose < 1284504107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"viewing angle: 160°" < 1284504113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Viewing angle of a keyboard. < 1284504117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1284504121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System requirements < 1284504122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least 256 MB of RAM. < 1284504129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 160° doesn't seem too bad < 1284504134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keyboard is just THAT POWERFUL. < 1284504152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nah, their drivers are that sucky :P < 1284504155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a genius. < 1284504155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1284504156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. < 1284504158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice FAQ. < 1284504168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why isn’t there any Linux software? < 1284504169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because first we want to let 95% of people to work with the keyboard." < 1284504176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 95% of people can afford, and are stupid enough to buy, it. < 1284504179 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284504224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[What happens if I spill coffee, coke or wine on the keyboard? < 1284504224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keyboard will likely break down. Just as a laptop, a TV or the Imperial State Crown in a similar situation.]] < 1284504225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, there's the OpenOptimus project Linux driver. < 1284504231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would get hard to see, fingerprints < 1284504231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparing your keyboard to the Imperial State Crown. Amazing. < 1284504234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you can't avoid themn < 1284504236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1284504241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it only supports the three-key model, though. :p < 1284504250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oleophobic coating (like the iPhone 3G S has). < 1284504258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meaning? < 1284504263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://en.wiki.gg.st/w/images/Openoptimus_interface_screenshot.png < 1284504265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also lifting keycaps to clean them sounds tricky < 1284504270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like the blabla placeholder text. < 1284504277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oleophobic is the Japanese name for fear of Oreo cookies. < 1284504290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But instead, I will let Bill Nye the Science Guy explain. < 1284504291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gizmodo.com/5302097/giz-bill-nye-explains-the-iphone-3gss-oleophobic-screen/gallery/ < 1284504293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284504293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gizmodo.com/5302097/giz-bill-nye-explains-the-iphone-3gss-oleophobic-screen/ < 1284504301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as "the only reason to ever open Gizmodo". < 1284504301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BUGS: Still need to find out how to prevent the OLED Mini Three from powering off (it does shutdown automatically after a few seconds)." < 1284504312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a minor issue. < 1284504420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[A lipophobic coating is used on the touchscreens of the Apple iPhone 4[1] and iPad[2], and HTC Touch HD2[citation needed] and Hero[citation needed] to repel fingerprint oils.]] < 1284504446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the future we are planning to offer keyboards where some buttons will have no displays (passive type). So you will be able to replace these buttons with those with displays.]] < 1284504466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are planning to make more keyboards that require you to give us more money than you just already gave us to get the 'advantage' of the only reason you bought it." < 1284504475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Tactile sensations are good: we use mechanical micro-keyswitches with a key travel of 2.5 mm. The activation force is, if you are interested, 50 ± 20 g.]] < 1284504480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284504480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least that's okay. < 1284504482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1284504483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is a /micro/ keyswitch, though? < 1284504526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[First of all, the feel of Model M isn't so great compared to the Model F. Well, at least, compared to my hand-me-down Model M. With my Model M, the end of the keystroke is a kind of "thud", because of the contact with the membrane of the keyboard. With the Model F, the keystroke is sharper, and more pronounced, as the little platters attached to each key are directly hitting the PCB of the keyb < 1284504526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oard. Each keystroke has a distinct "ping" that the Model M just can't really match.]] < 1284504528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a small one < 1284504564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, platters? hitting PCB? no hall effect there < 1284504573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i forget exactly what it is :) < 1284504578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not buckling spring though < 1284504580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more ingenious < 1284504589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i read hall effect somewhere < 1284504602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hall effect is sensing current without touching < 1284504607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of stuff < 1284504638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i seem to remember now < 1284504638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetism is also related to it < 1284504644 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or involved in it rather < 1284504644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it has some magnets or something, the Model F < 1284504647 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses a theremin as an input device
< 1284504647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then cause something to strike the PCB < 1284504651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than it hitting directly < 1284504653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something clever like that anyway < 1284504751 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1284504796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listening to keyboard sounds is addictive < 1284504802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the taps are so relaxing! < 1284504888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of keyboards, engadget mobile had this newspost about... well, to quote: < 1284504899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The company's [InputDynamics] developed a piece of software called TouchDevice that uses a phone's embedded microphone to analyze the acoustics inside, reacting to your finger's impact on the surface with a touchscreen-like input on the device. New Scientist reports that's not all, as the algorithms can also be fine tuned for detect scratches and swipes for scrolling and zoom, --" < 1284504904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Look at this lovely thing with a real TrackPoint in it: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4917 < 1284504907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like something unlikely to work very well. < 1284504910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the product was cancelled. < 1284504913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To put it mildly.) < 1284504920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gahaha < 1284504924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like voice recognition for fingers < 1284504924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wow < 1284504933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how reliable is it? < 1284504936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just one mic? < 1284504946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a phone doesn't have one in each corner < 1284504950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's anyone's guess; but my personal guess is "not very". < 1284505047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The software can identify the point of contact to within about 1 square centimetre." < 1284505057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Look at this lovely thing with a real TrackPoint in it: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4917 <-- no arrow keys? :( < 1284505064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh stop whining, it's awesome < 1284505069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use emacs anyway < 1284505073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man up and learn the ctrl shortcuts < 1284505076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284505085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, more keypresses < 1284505088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's in a case made out of fucking aluminium < 1284505089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat that < 1284505094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, hand travel is much more significant < 1284505099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, wrong shape of enter key :P < 1284505099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you press thousands of keys a minute < 1284505118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I hire you as a consultant on the Slate. < 1284505119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I don't I'm not a typist. < 1284505129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be the name of my hypothetical tablet right up until Slate magazine sues me. < 1284505140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1284505140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How fast can you type? < 1284505144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyone programming spends more time thinking than writing. At least for most languages < 1284505148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no clue < 1284505149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Watch out or it'll become LCARS :P < 1284505154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : although i think it depends on the axiom of choice... <-- in fact it's equivalent to it < 1284505156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I am watching out. < 1284505178 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey uh what was that C subset language again? < 1284505180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You: find me something that has an ARM chip on it and also USB OTG. < 1284505189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1284505191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1284505193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Beagleboard. < 1284505194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i quoted it after < 1284505204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What GHz is it again? < 1284505220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is typing far up in the backscroll in case you didn't guess
< 1284505228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this is going to be powering a decent-resolution (well, for a small thing) screen with X11 on Linux running some sort of modern browser :) < 1284505233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1284505240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://beagleboard.org/hardware-xM < 1284505245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Cortex-A8 at 1 GHz. < 1284505247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds nice. < 1284505255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 512 MiB of RAM, though. And DDR, too. < 1284505257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the amount is fine. < 1284505261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DDR part... not so much. < 1284505283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you know what the Beagleboard's OTG power supply is like? < 1284505293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 100mA no matter what. < 1284505296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could it power a fancy mouse or keyboard? < 1284505302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Define "fancy" < 1284505317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've cheated by buying a USB hub with secondary power and plugging the secondary power into a cheap USB battery. < 1284505320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So many LEDs it's like turning the basement light on. < 1284505322 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not cause explosions by doing this. < 1284505337 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284505341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the Optimus Shittus Maximus? :P < 1284505345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1284505359 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP < 1284505369 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: SO DO I < 1284505372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: 2005 welcomes you! < 1284505387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE 2005 AS WELL < 1284505399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE HAVING SEX WITH MEN! < 1284505400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1284505405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS MUCH AS I LOVE 2005 < 1284505408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I REALLY HATED 2005. < 1284505411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO A LOT THEN < 1284505416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOVE-HATE < 1284505420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005 WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD SEX WITH A MAN. < 1284505426 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, what was that C subset language or am i just imagining things? < 1284505429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO OBVIOUSLY I HATE IT < 1284505430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving on < 1284505434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to less capitally pastures < 1284505438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: dunno. < 1284505445 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Uhhh, there are lots of C subset languages ... < 1284505490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: I've cheated by buying a USB hub with secondary power and plugging the secondary power into a cheap USB battery. < 1284505492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to power what? < 1284505493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the preprocessor! < 1284505506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i wonder if we can hook up the fancy battery to two things at once < 1284505510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to supply usb power < 1284505515 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Bluetooth adapter. < 1284505515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. have everything on a hub < 1284505518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, and a mouse. < 1284505520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd be hard to stuff it all in < 1284505524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmmm < 1284505530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd have built-in bluetooth :P < 1284505534 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there was one on the esolang wiki < 1284505555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you think the pop-out keyboard with hinge idea is feasible? < 1284505560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope it is, because that would be kickass. < 1284505578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with sliding or something else more ... conventional? < 1284505610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't think that's infeasible, I just think it's not appreciably better than more achievable alternatives :P < 1284505618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh hello, I'm just tapping on my EVEN BETTER THAN IPAD. Look at my seamless multitasking of fancy things and hardcore Linux applications. LOOK AT IT. I am typing in a terminal. Whoops! I just put it on the table. And took out a keyboard. And hinged it up. Oh hello, I'm just typing on my AWESOME NETBOOK." < 1284505625 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-235-149.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1284505626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sliding keyboard == tiny keyboard. < 1284505633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have to be. < 1284505651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess I am basically proposing a sliding keyboard, except it's inside the casing. < 1284505658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point X-D < 1284505668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm just splitting hairs for effectively no reason. < 1284505672 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIGANTIC SLIDING KEYBOARD CRUSHES LOCAL MAN - page 3 < 1284505673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, E_WORKSFORME. < 1284505684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweet. Now figure out how to get the whole hinge thing working. < 1284505687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Imagine a keyboard on the iPad. That comes on a hinge. Hey, it'd be a laptop! AWESOME < 1284505690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284505693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pop-out mini-stand I guess. < 1284505710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without feeling weird in your hands all the time and popping out at the most inopportune times. < 1284505713 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, it halves the retardedness of the iPad by making it usable for non-retarded things. < 1284505728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't typical hinged keyboards work by lifting up the screen to reveal a keyboard below, then rotating the screen 180 degrees so it faces the keyboard? < 1284505730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stick a proper OS on it and it ceases to be retarded. < 1284505731 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284505756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The OS will be proper... although obviously designed for primarily touch usage. < 1284505767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that's a good point, you'd look like a dickwad touching the screen then typing. < 1284505770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what's your opinion on Android? < 1284505773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a touch interface with a mouse would be weird. Hm. < 1284505776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uhh, it's a mobile OS. < 1284505780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is there any reason for the iPad not to have actual OS X?) < 1284505786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's... fine? < 1284505790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, OK < 1284505792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good luck hitting targets that small. < 1284505798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if you were going to rant against it, or something like that < 1284505802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the iPad OS is pretty good. Just not the App Store. < 1284505805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *shrug* < 1284505811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's too boring to have an opinion on. < 1284505817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1284505824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: With a better UI. < 1284505826 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, someone needs to delete some spam: http://esolangs.org/forum/kareha.pl/1252908587/l50 < 1284505831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, iOS except less crippled. < 1284505835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah. < 1284505871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm thinkin "totally-integrated UI to application selection and filesystem navigation", and "no concept of an 'open' application exposed". < 1284505888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, the switcher just shows a list of applications, ordered by last use; the more recently use, the brighter the icon, say. < 1284505915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And applications that can save their state and quit seamlessly get automatically closed after a certain amount of idle time. < 1284505946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's how Android works < 1284505960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you switch away from an application, it keeps running in the background for a while, and might get garbage-collected later < 1284505964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think it still has an open-app-switcher thing < 1284505972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you still know what's open or not, so to speak < 1284505976 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sw-app < 1284505977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an application's responsibility to persist state no matter how it ends up being switched back to < 1284505981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than there being no concept of opening and closing applications < 1284505986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1284506116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there'll be a tab bar of some sorts to serve as the taskbar... < 1284506127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i can hack up chrome to open a new window for each tab so that that blends in < 1284506128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1284506147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't suppose the Beagleboard has 3G hardware? :P < 1284506158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: would you ever close browser tabs? < 1284506159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, I don't think it does have an open-app-switcher < 1284506169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would they stay open forever, just sliding down to the end of the list? < 1284506174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The phone companies are *ridiculously* paranoid about letting custom hardware on their networks. < 1284506179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what i don't know :) < 1284506182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think closing would be possible < 1284506184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to mean "go away" < 1284506187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows < 1284506190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah... < 1284506205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's a total shame because non-3G mobile internet is shit < 1284506209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGE is half-acceptable, but... < 1284506216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind a lack of voice access, though, you could probably figure out a way to get a 3G modem hooked up. < 1284506222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: i suspect only graue has access to delete stuff on the forum < 1284506222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a web page and an application being indistinguishable, on that sort of system < 1284506227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, no telephone capabilities < 1284506230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's one of the things I hate about IE8 on Windows 7 < 1284506231 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww poopy :( < 1284506233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Jolicloud does that < 1284506235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would *love* to homebrew a cell phone
< 1284506236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1284506253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's just a tiny tablet PC with telephone equipment :P < 1284506261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I agree I would too, but... < 1284506265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never actually use the phone part of my phone. < 1284506272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but not often. < 1284506279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION once, a long time ago, saw a kit on building your own cell phone
< 1284506280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I'm busy discovering that bubble sort really is /that/ inefficient < 1284506282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I really needed to call someone, I would be happy using Skype. < 1284506285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was for kids < 1284506286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best way to sort a linked list? mergesort? < 1284506294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it was probably just "Put the case on!" < 1284506296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think so < 1284506302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor do I use the mobile Internet *much*. (typically use WiFi) < 1284506306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/algorithms/listsort.html < 1284506310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first result for "sort a linked list" < 1284506313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WikiAnswers - How would you sort a linked list < 1284506314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Terminology question: How would you sort a linked list? using merge sort.http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/algorithms/listsort.html. < 1284506316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merge sort - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1284506316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merge sort is often the best choice for sorting a linked list: in this situation it is relatively easy to implement a merge sort in such a way that it ... < 1284506343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep; I can sort-of see how it would be implemented < 1284506344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort is my favourite sorting algorithm < 1284506348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: click that link to see how :P < 1284506349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1284506356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the PuTTY developer) < 1284506363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also by the coroutines-in-C macros "developer" < 1284506374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: < 1284506375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enigma: a block-pushing puzzle game. Originally invented by a friend; converted to a curses-based Unix game by me." < 1284506378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got confused there < 1284506382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was the other Enigma < 1284506415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it orignally? < 1284506415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: also that spam is several months old, there isn't _really_ enough to bother, it's just there are even _less_ real posts :D D: < 1284506423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before being a UNIX game? < 1284506430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1284506430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/enigma/ < 1284506434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't claim credit for inventing Enigma; the game rules were devised by somebody else, who also designed the twelve original levels. He wishes to remain anonymous, so he has donated the levels to the public domain. This reimplementation of the game engine is done in C, from scratch, by me. < 1284506435 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1284506456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're the Insanity Consultant for Slate < 1284506461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your job is to keep everyone else sufficiently insane < 1284506475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284506488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to watch The Guild < 1284506489 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma looks like boulderdash < 1284506490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there are quite a few games called Enigma, IIRC < 1284506492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least three < 1284506503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: "It has elements of Boulderdash and elements of Sokoban" < 1284506503 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why does he get scare quotes around "developer"? < 1284506510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counting the ex-game? < 1284506516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey_: It's the same guy; and because they're only a few lines long really. < 1284506518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more an article. < 1284506522 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1284506532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ex-contest < 1284506536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex-existent < 1284506583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1284506590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm pretty sure ghc uses merge for it's sort implementation, for example < 1284506596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the contest in Agora < 1284506600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before contracts died < 1284506609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...the marble game that ais523 has made levels for < 1284506616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ais523: I suggest we base the OS on Windows CE. < 1284506629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's at least one shareware game with that name too, because someone posted to the marble-game mailing list talking about it < 1284506638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1284506643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wouldn't that require paying for licenses just to get started on development? < 1284506645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, learn to ais523lineread? < 1284506647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I thought for a second the list was actually called marble-game, as a historical relic < 1284506649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1284506657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1284506659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also restrict the hardware to not run on a Befunge machine? < 1284506664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: there are quite a few games called Enigma, IIRC < 1284506665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least three < 1284506670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We can virtualise. < 1284506684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do windows CE licenses allow virtualisation? < 1284506692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We'll make a business deal with Microsoft. < 1284506694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect they don't < 1284506695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1284506702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you'd need a viable product first? < 1284506715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Microsoft don't have one. < 1284506720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look where they are! < 1284506729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xbox 360 has just started to make money, IIRC < 1284506731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's one < 1284506748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their mouse-rebranding business is doing quite well too, I think < 1284506782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just remembered that I implemented a linked-list heapsort already, to the horror of anyone who knows anything about algorithms < 1284506784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll use that < 1284506931 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284507042 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with making a parser in java... < 1284507053 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's say that I typed IllegalArgumentExpression by mistake. < 1284507054 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice. < 1284507186 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284507240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: ...i vaguely recall that you want an IDE with autocompletion for Java. not that i've ever used one. or written anything in Java beyond the Hello World level. < 1284507256 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just using kate < 1284507264 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used both netbeans and eclipse < 1284507268 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have their flaws < 1284507289 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former displays garbage once you hit 2000 lines < 1284507301 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter just craps out badly for no apparent reason < 1284507318 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it runs fine and then after some time it decides to break) < 1284507865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq: Awesome idea warning! < 1284507890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not even have a concept of installed application. You have favourite applications or whatever, and opening an application for the first time just downloads it. < 1284507899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-favourite applications that you don't use in a while get baleeted. < 1284507919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These applications all being from the repo, that is. < 1284508013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My main fear is wrangling Linux/X11 into all this. :) < 1284508043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baleeted: thrown to the whales < 1284508046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284508049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284508052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whales of /dev/null. < 1284508158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pikhq: Tell me I'm an idiot or something! At least comment. :P < 1284508251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1284508265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A4: 210 x 297 mm < 1284508281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPad: 190 x 243 mm < 1284508306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A5: 148 x 210 mm, for comparison. < 1284508327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US Letter: 216 x 279 mm < 1284508345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: The iPad is... not any particular paper size. < 1284508386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (243/190, phi) < 1284508393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just keep the comments rolling, totally. < 1284508402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i doubt it < 1284508417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243/190 = 1.2789 < 1284508421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not even close < 1284508422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot appears dead < 1284508446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the A# it's sqrt(2) ofc < 1284508465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With a soft microfibre interior and reinforced panels to provide structure, the iPad Case is the perfect way to carry around your iPad. And it does double duty. It folds in just the right places to act as a stand that holds iPad at an ideal angle for watching videos and slideshows or for typing on the onscreen keyboard." < 1284508468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They stole OUR IDEA. < 1284508484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, wait, not actually with the keyboard part. < 1284508494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (243/190, (sqrt 5 + 1)/2) < 1284508502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 42 < 1284508524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead as a doornail, so it wasn't just phi being undefined < 1284508530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1284508531 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1284508535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1284508542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi < 1284508543 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1284508544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo butt < 1284508544 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt < 1284508545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284508549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "rabies" < 1284508554 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabies < 1284508559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "babies" < 1284508561 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"babies" < 1284508562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell show 42 < 1284508564 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"42" < 1284508566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 42 < 1284508568 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 < 1284508571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I fixed it. < 1284508578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (243/190, phi) < 1284508587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said phi isn't defined < 1284508591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.520.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1284508592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1284508598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a braino, since pi is < 1284508598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (243/190, (sqrt 5 + 1)/2) < 1284508601 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1.2789473684210526,1.618033988749895) < 1284508607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am such a genius for fixing that. < 1284508653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1284508683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will HackEgo have Factor [language]? < 1284508694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdoifjodfjoidjgoigfjh < 1284508696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: when you add it? < 1284508696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL < 1284508702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it needs divine intervention < 1284508705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: he SAID he removed it < 1284508709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it slowed down the VCS too much < 1284508712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1284508716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize < 1284508717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you send him patches to fix the VCS it's not happening < 1284508724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's possible, in principle) < 1284508740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait VCS? why is that a problem? < 1284508753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big change? < 1284508779 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284508791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: something like that < 1284508796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Gregor