00:00:13 After I write more, I can test it to see if the example programs will run 00:06:55 Zoiks 00:07:13 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Yes, "Zoiks".). 00:08:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Zurrr). 00:15:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:33 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:33 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:18 -!- wareya has joined. 00:41:47 -!- alise has joined. 01:18:47 Gaah, Dot Action 2 is so impossible. 01:21:52 Um 01:21:58 Does it not save your place? 01:22:06 I'm stuck with level 1 again 01:23:39 *sigh* McCain proposing a bill that would allow imprisonment without trial. 01:24:04 Apparently he liked his time as a prisoner of war so much that he feels everyone should live it. 01:25:23 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:26:17 Sgeo: You need to write down the save code. 01:26:24 From the level selection screen; the NNN-NNN. 01:26:30 "(3) INAPPLICABILITY OF CERTAIN STATEMENT AND RIGHTS- A individual who is suspected of being an unprivileged enemy belligerent shall not, during interrogation under this subsection, be provided the statement required by Miranda v. Arizona (384 U.S. 436 (1966)) or otherwise be informed of any rights that the individual may or may not have to counsel or to remain silent consistent with Miranda v. Arizona." 01:26:32 (Second menu item to enter one.) 01:26:37 I... Don't think that actually works. 01:26:40 pikhq: Ha. 01:26:58 Sgeo: I have a code for 55. 01:27:02 -!- Quadrescence has joined. 01:27:04 But you're not getting iiit~ 01:28:12 alise: Yeah, the opinion of the court in Miranda v. Arizona was that absolutely no evidence from an interrogation is admissible in any court, civil or otherwise, unless the "Miranda rights" are told to them. 01:29:42 Soooo... Yeah. Doesn't work unless they want to produce a giant pile of BS that the judge will laugh out of court. 01:30:18 "An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has 01:30:38 Whoa, Google own reCAPTCHA. 01:30:44 Since about a year ago. 01:30:44 And *that* just violates almost the entire US Bill of Rights in a single long sentence. 01:30:49 Impressive, but dang. 01:30:51 http://www.google.com/recaptcha 01:31:51 "9) UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENT- The term `unprivileged enemy belligerent' means an individual (other than a privileged belligerent) who-- 01:31:54 (A) has engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; 01:31:57 (B) has purposely and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or 01:32:00 (C) was a part of al Qaeda at the time of capture." 01:32:11 Sooo. I hereby declare Congress to be code for al Qaeda. 01:32:23 And shall detain them in the Capitol. 01:41:49 Oh, awesome. 01:42:39 Dang it, I keep missing a dot in level 20 01:42:44 DoJ is suing Arpaio. 01:45:22 * Sgeo lols at stage 22 01:49:17 WTF at Stage 23 01:52:15 * Sgeo wtfs at stage 24 01:52:44 Sgeo: 48 is the hardest so far 01:52:45 apart from 55 01:52:51 which appears to be impossible in the time given :) 01:52:52 How about the one with 1 time?! 01:53:33 I either fry on the upper yellow, or run out of time 01:53:47 Finally 01:54:02 Like that. :) 01:55:35 25 was fun 01:57:23 55 I actually have no idea what you have to do, past getting the first green block. 02:00:38 Sgeo: what are you on now? 02:00:46 Taking a break from it 02:00:50 Around 27 I think 02:01:07 Did you note your save code> 02:01:08 *code? 02:01:25 Yes 02:01:52 27 02:11:25 -!- sshc_ has changed nick to sshc. 02:13:58 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:34:40 alise, cheat codes: http://jayisgames.com/archives/2007/04/dot_action_2.php#walkthrough 02:34:50 Sgeo: Fuck that shit. 02:35:05 Well, I'm skipping level 27 02:37:12 Sgeo: Ha. You'll find much harder ones and end up skipping the entire game. 02:37:14 27 is easy. 02:37:27 ?! 02:37:44 27 is utterly trivial 02:37:48 if you can't do it you have no hope 02:38:01 just go in the middle 02:38:27 ... 02:38:35 Why are you saying tons of punctuation? 02:38:46 @# 02:39:34 27 done 02:39:37 did 28 already 02:39:43 Fighting 29 02:41:34 Dangit, missed one 02:42:04 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:48:32 -!- augur has joined. 03:35:45 -!- comex has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 03:35:45 -!- comex_ has joined. 03:38:49 Why can't I run bsnes at full speed any more? D: 03:40:38 Apparently the answer is: X went "fuck you". 03:53:27 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:57:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:58:10 I made the BytePusher VM program, and it works. 03:58:39 But I have to wait 14 minutes to try the second example program. 03:59:18 * Sgeo has a Factor project to do! 04:03:55 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/logo.png 04:08:09 -!- Gregor-L has joined. 04:10:49 Audio is not implemented yet. 04:12:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:12:39 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:14:03 I have just testsed the second program too, and the second program also works. 04:21:59 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/ 04:22:19 (I have included both example programs in the .ZIP archive so that you do not have to use RapidShare) 04:25:16 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:25:17 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:28:01 -!- EgoBot has joined. 04:28:07 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:29:57 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 04:39:31 -!- mtve has joined. 04:54:15 -!- Gregor-L has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:19:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:20:21 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:48 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:41 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:06:37 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:08:20 -!- Quadrescence has joined. 07:13:31 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:14:54 -!- cheater00 has joined. 07:16:50 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:17:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:17:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 07:17:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:23:10 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:32:17 -!- comex_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:34:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:35:31 -!- comex has joined. 07:43:47 -!- relet1 has joined. 07:45:16 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:45:48 -!- relet1 has changed nick to relet. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:38 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:05:52 -!- augur has joined. 08:06:02 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:06:19 -!- myndzi has joined. 08:12:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:41:55 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:53:39 -!- cheater00 has joined. 09:08:02 -!- tombom has joined. 09:10:10 -!- choochter has joined. 09:11:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:12:58 -!- augur has joined. 09:13:51 -!- choochter has quit (Client Quit). 09:34:30 -!- choochter has joined. 09:50:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:00:57 it's in german, but the code vs times comparisons speak for themselves 10:00:59 http://www.drweb.de/magazin/schneller-php-schneller/ 10:07:08 Also, Google translate is somewhat hilarious. 10:07:11 "D. grinding for, foreach, while (performance gain 15-30%) 10:07:11 Es ist falsch, pauschal zu behaupten, while ist schneller als zum Bespiel foreach. It is wrong to say a flat rate, while faster than the examples foreach. Oder umgekehrt. Or vice versa. Es kommt immer auf die Art des Objekts, die der Befehl zu schleifen hat. It all depends on the nature of the object to the grind, the command has." 10:07:21 Gah, it pastes both versions. 10:07:42 "It is wrong to say a flat rate, while faster than the examples foreach. Or vice versa. It all depends on the nature of the object to the grind, the command has." 10:07:47 Anyway, lovely verb choice there. 10:07:55 GRIND that LOOP, PEON. 10:17:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:37:09 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:50:08 yeah 10:50:14 he's loopgrinding 11:09:23 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:19:41 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:40:28 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:14:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:55:20 -!- comex has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:55:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:57:34 -!- comex has joined. 13:01:51 fungot 13:01:54 Phantom_Hoover: poe's tales, of which he had cultivated with such singular results. it was, they averred, as though wounded by some stray shot. the beast turned its head in my direction and the eyes fell open, disclosing the repulsively rotten fangs of the degenerate joe slater. i shivered as i wondered why i did not fnord killing four and finally succeeding in the liberation of the monster. those victims who could recall the e 13:02:18 * Phantom_Hoover wonders who Joe Slater is. 13:02:52 -!- amca has joined. 13:03:18 -!- amca has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:09:26 Phantom_Hoover: He's a degenerate, with repulsively rotten fangs. 13:10:12 "His name, as given on the records, was Joe Slater, or Slaader, and his appearance was that of the typical denizen of the Catskill Mountain region; one of those strange, repellent scions of a primitive Colonial peasant stock whose isolation for nearly three centuries in the hilly fastnesses of a little-traveled countryside has caused them to sink to a kind of barbaric degeneracy, rather than advance with their more fortunately placed brethren of the thickly set 13:10:12 tled districts." 13:11:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:12:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:12:34 ^style 13:12:34 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 13:12:56 that explains it 13:13:47 He appears to have been an early-20th century footballer. 13:14:33 "The man himself was pitiably inferior in mentality and language alike; but his glowing, titanic visions, though described in a barbarous disjointed jargon, were assuredly things which only a superior or even exceptional brain could conceive." 13:15:25 Well, that's your average footballer. 13:15:31 XD 13:18:55 fungot: Can you tell us more about what happened to Joe? 13:18:56 fizzie: a cowed and cringing satellite in the fnord fnord firm to the house in darkness but for the glare of the fnord 13:19:13 I'm not sure if that's good or bad. 13:19:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 13:20:15 fungot, Wikipedia says he was killed in WWI. Is this true? 13:20:16 Phantom_Hoover_: it was a gentle daylight rain that awaked me front my stupor in the brush-grown railway cut, and among them was lore of a golden valley that led to old world wonders. by night the outer harbour was cleared, and late passengers watched the stars twinkling above an unpolluted ocean. 13:20:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:21:11 Actually, he was killed because he was "unfit to bear the active intellect of cosmic entity. His gross body could not undergo the needed adjustments between ethereal life and planet life." 13:21:36 Ah, so there it was hushed up. 13:21:41 Cosmic entities should have more sense than picking footballers. 13:22:50 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:23:02 Evidently. 13:23:22 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:23:28 Obviously they thought that understanding the offside rule was a sign of high mental calibre. 13:27:15 Phantom_Hoover_, XD 13:34:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:36:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 13:36:37 Disclaimer: I actually do understand the offside rule. 13:38:00 do you mean the football/soccer rule, or the indentation rule? 13:38:10 The football rule. 13:39:15 What's the indentation rule? 13:48:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:48:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 13:59:08 it's a common nickname AFAIK for the rule Haskell uses 13:59:21 where you can line up a loop (or other control structure) body with the first line 14:02:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 14:02:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:03:37 -!- sftp has joined. 14:06:29 -!- derdon has joined. 14:07:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 14:21:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:21:37 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:22:43 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:23:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 14:32:43 ais523, that is strange... The haskell rule is actually quite easy to understand. 14:33:04 it's more complicated than the rules for pretty much any other lang... 14:33:22 while I never understood the football rule. Though, I can't say I spent much time trying to understand the football rule 14:33:38 football just doesn't interest me very much 14:34:05 ais523, hm possibly. 14:34:51 -!- relet has joined. 14:41:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:45:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:54:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 15:05:57 -!- augur has joined. 15:10:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:10:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 15:13:05 ais523: It's more complex than the rules for any other language, but it's more *natural* than most other such rules. 15:13:29 I rather like it, but I see how people could be confused 15:14:14 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:25:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:25:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 15:33:39 -!- teuchter has joined. 15:35:32 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:42:05 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:42:17 MISTER PRESSER 15:42:21 Er, PRESSEY 15:49:06 XD 15:51:39 -!- choochter has joined. 15:51:53 -!- tombom_ has joined. 15:51:58 Ah, He who Choochts. 15:52:27 -!- teuchter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:54:55 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:02:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:02:51 -!- cpressey1 has joined. 16:03:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 16:05:25 -!- Ilari_an1rcomp has joined. 16:05:43 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:05:43 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:07:09 -!- teuchter has joined. 16:09:12 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:09:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:09:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 16:09:51 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:20:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:21:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 16:23:49 -!- choochter has joined. 16:24:15 -!- derdon has joined. 16:26:33 -!- teuchter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:31:52 -!- cpressey1 has changed nick to cpressey. 16:40:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:53:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 17:10:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:17:44 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:26:38 -!- madbrain2 has joined. 17:40:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:41:00 -!- cheater99 has joined. 18:02:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:09:23 -!- augur has joined. 18:18:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 18:18:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:38:09 -!- cpressey has left (?). 18:38:43 hm 18:39:39 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010atbj.php#details says "Depth16.1 km (10.0 miles) (poorly constrained)" and "Location Uncertaintyhorizontal +/- 16.5 km (10.3 miles); depth +/- 64.6 km (40.1 miles)". So that earth quake could be located far about the ground then? XD 18:39:56 poorly constrained indeed XD 18:45:20 -!- derdon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:45:21 A skyquake. 18:45:38 fizzie, indeed. 18:52:53 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:55:17 -!- nooga has joined. 18:55:34 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 18:58:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:01:27 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:24 -!- cheater99 has joined. 19:05:04 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:05:27 -!- augur has joined. 19:06:15 wow, someone bought out the rights to Duke Nukem Forever and started developing it again 19:06:35 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:06:56 Never bought out the rights, actually. 19:07:21 Take Two has always *had* the rights. They just had contracted to have it developed. 19:07:39 And they decided to switch contractors. 19:07:49 ais523, yay! 19:08:03 It can not be made again! 19:08:21 what may shock Vorpal even more is that I finally got a small fragment of a Feather interp to work pretty much as expected 19:08:31 although it's just leading to more questions about what I should do next 19:08:42 ais523, WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO 19:08:50 code! 19:08:52 I think one thing that's necessary is to restrict the program to using only atoms that are in the original program 19:09:00 (not really a problem as you can just go back in time and add them there...) 19:09:13 Phantom_Hoover_: well, there isn't any Feather code yet 19:09:20 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:09:27 just creating Feather fakeobjects via metagaming, and checking that they interact correctly 19:09:29 3D Realms, who previously had been developing it, last released a new game in '97. 19:09:49 ais523, yes, but anything Feather is interesting. 19:09:52 *Ninety fucking seven*. 19:10:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:10:21 -!- nooga has joined. 19:20:10 ais523, pretty please? 19:20:37 ;(set! abc (box_atom "abc")) 19:20:39 ;(eval (((((abc "==") (box_atom "def")) "#") '(display "equal")) '((abc "<<=") (box_atom "def")))) 19:20:41 commented out because it's just a paste 19:20:46 (and yes, that's Scheme not Feather) 19:21:06 UNDERSCORES IN SYMBOLS 19:21:12 YOU SHOULD BURN IN HELL 19:21:26 Oh, wait, you don't like helly stuff. 19:21:35 YOU SHOULD BE BEATEN SOUNDLY 19:22:32 uhm 19:22:51 so feather will resemble scheme, on which abstraction level? 19:23:17 ais523, how do you get around the "turtles all the way down" problem? 19:23:31 so far I haven't 19:23:37 Ideas? 19:23:52 the issue is not the number of turtles, but inconsistent counts 19:24:17 it's a pain to try to match up old turtles with new one 19:24:29 Feather is the only lang I know where you have to think about backwards compatibility in the very first interp... 19:29:32 -!- cheater99 has joined. 19:31:11 turtles? 19:31:37 Sgeo, small, shelled marine reptiles. 19:32:48 ais523, a language with specs but no implementation for a long time, and when someone gets around to it, they find that it _can't quite_ meet the specs 19:33:34 -!- teuchter has joined. 19:33:57 teuchter, choochter, any relation? 19:35:09 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:39:28 -!- madbrain2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:39:57 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:40:17 -!- augur has joined. 19:43:41 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:45:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:46:31 How can I make the audio in BytePusher VM syncrhonized? In SDL the audio has to run in a separate thread. So, how do I synchronize it? 19:46:46 With SCIENCE! 19:49:51 Not helping.... 19:52:40 -!- teuchter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:55:23 How can SCIENCE not help‽ 19:55:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:55:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 19:55:39 How can SCIENCE not help‽ 19:55:46 We saw that the last time. 19:56:34 Oh. Effing connection. 19:56:44 And clog. 19:57:29 Phantom_Hoover_: Because that is not enough explanation, of what codes needed, and stuff like that 19:57:45 zzo38, but it's SCIENCE! 19:58:44 I'm not sure what exactly is being wanted here, but of course you could just make another buffer, into which the synchronous audio-output functions write; wrap a mutex around it; if the buffer's full, have the synchronous output function block with SDL_CondWait; and then the audio thread just reads from that buffer and SDL_CondSignal's in case the synchronous audio output function's waiting there. 19:59:03 See? fizzie has SCIENCE! 20:00:34 It has a bit unpredictable latency there, since there's another buffer inside SDL. And you'd need to call the synchronous audio-output function often enough so that the buffer never happens to be empty, but I guess that's a given. 20:02:12 Who wrote this BytePusher/ByteByteJump thing anyway? Someone not on-channel, apparently? 20:03:30 I wanted to comment on the µ-law encoding thing, which I think mostly makes sense only for speech. 20:06:34 You think it is only for speech? 20:06:48 You can post the comment on the Talk page on the wiki 20:06:59 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:48 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:08:04 Wikipedia does say it is for speech. 20:12:38 Maybe I will wait until they write a program that uses audio, in case they decide to change it back? 20:13:33 how to code BBJ ? 20:13:33 Waiting for a audio-outputting program might be a good idea anyway, so you can test your thing. (Though the µ-law lookup table is easy to add/remove, I guess.) 20:15:12 Yes, it is easy to add/remove 20:15:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:16:21 -!- augur has joined. 20:17:35 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:22:20 what may shock Vorpal even more is that I finally got a small fragment of a Feather interp to work pretty much as expected <-- wow... \o/ 20:22:38 no, this does not mean the lang itself is working 20:22:45 just that the very first stage is not completely impossible 20:23:01 /o/ 20:23:02 | 20:23:02 /`\ 20:23:52 ais523, indeed 20:24:05 ais523, still a first step 20:24:33 ais523: Kudos! 20:26:45 -!- cheater99 has joined. 20:27:43 ais523: i also thought a lot about language like Feather 20:27:55 and all that comes to me is some kind of Lisp on steroids 20:33:43 I made a random test of a 30-second snippet of music, in both 8-bit unsigned linear PCM and 8-bit µ-law, and the difference is pretty small, so I guess it doesn't really hurt that much to have it there. 20:34:01 fizzie: OK 20:35:22 http://zem.fi/~fis/test-linear.wav and http://zem.fi/~fis/test-ulaw.wav if someone with more discerning ears wants to comment on the µ-law + music use case. 20:35:54 (Technically I guess it's copyrighted audio, but, well, a 30-second lowish-quality snippet...) 20:38:28 fizzie: That'd be a better comparison if it were 44100 Hz. 20:39:23 pikhq: I guess, but the BytePusher has a sampling rate of 15360 Hz. 20:39:32 ... 20:39:36 Why? 20:39:57 A fixed 60 Hz framerate, and 256 samples per frame, if you mean "why that exact number". 20:40:36 If it's a more general sort of why, "dunno" then. 20:41:50 That's not even sufficiently lossless to encode music well. 20:41:56 Erm. 20:42:10 That's not even enough to encode the *base frequencies* of a giant swath of the musical scale. 20:43:37 High-fidelity music may not have been high up on the design criteria list. 20:43:39 Hrm. Actually, looking at a table of notes vs. Hz. You're good up until A8. 20:43:42 so 20:43:42 how to write programs for bytePusher? 20:43:42 is there some compiler? 20:43:47 (which is ridiculously high) 20:43:48 pikhq: It is not enough? Even for square wave or sine wave or other simple things, if you stay in the middle of octave? 20:43:59 Yes, A8 is high. 20:44:12 nooga: No there isn't, but I am writing one 20:44:20 It is more like assembler, though 20:45:26 It'll omit a good chunk of audible frequencies, buuut these are less essential ones, apparently. 20:46:33 But standard music should be enough for simple waveforms, 12-TET, 12-JI, Bohlen-Pierce, and more, which ones are likely to work? 20:47:24 zzo38: because i can't imagine how to do arithmetics on oisc 20:47:27 zzo38: Yeah, it'd only start being an issue if you start putting real instruments through there. 20:47:46 -!- calamari has joined. 20:47:57 Ones which have *some* sound above 8 kHz. 20:48:01 nooga: I think the suggestion was doing it using tables..... 20:48:07 (approx.) 20:48:40 And it is OK, since my assembler ("PUSHEM") supports adding tables and calculating values to enter into the tables, including loading them from binary files (for pictures) 20:48:58 You still have to explicitly tell it to add tables, though. 20:49:23 "However, DSD advocates and equipment manufacturers continue to assert an improvement in sound quality above PCM 24-bit 176.4 kHz." -- yeah, right, I'm sure there's a lot of audible fine detail out there somewhere over 80 kHz. 20:50:56 Ones which have *some* sound above 8 kHz. <-- doesn't most have that? 20:52:07 pikhq, as far as I remember the overtones for many (all?) instruments in theory goes on forever, getting fainter and fainter the further up they are. 20:52:35 This might depend on your definition of "some"; whether you're being unnecessarily literal with it or not. 20:52:49 fizzie, hm? 20:53:10 fizzie, did the second line clarify what I meant? 20:54:17 fizzie: Human hearing goes up to about 20 kHz... :) 20:54:26 pikhq, well yes there is that limit too 20:54:39 which makes most of those infinite overtones irrelevant 20:55:13 Vorpal: As well as the whole "approaching 0 dB" thing. 20:55:20 pikhq, indeed, which I mentioned there 20:55:36 Anyways. CD audio is nearly perfect in terms of audio reproduction.\ 20:55:39 pikhq, what about interference between stuff about 20 kHz and stuff below it? 20:55:52 probably not a significant issue though 20:56:02 Vorpal: Will get recorded as part of the CD audio. 20:56:12 Keep in mind, you're recording the *net* sound wave there. 20:56:13 pikhq, well, that is only stereo. 20:56:55 pikhq, remember you can hear the difference between sounds in more than just left/right direction due to various factors which I forgot the details about 20:57:07 If you make it 32-bit, 44.1 kHz audio, and *record binaurally*, you will have *literally perfect audio reproduction*. 20:57:16 pikhq, indeed 20:57:16 zzo38: excruciatingly slow 20:57:20 (assuming you've got hardware to actually play that back) 20:57:21 Will everyone write only twelve tone equal temperament music on BytePusher, or will some people use other tunings? 20:57:33 pikhq, that would be a PITA due to varying between different persons though 20:57:39 the head form and such I mean 20:57:49 Vorpal: Binaural recording with a generic head is "good enough", though. 20:57:50 zzo38: Or will anyone at all write music on BytePusher? 20:57:57 fizzie: I don't know. 20:58:06 pikhq, not *perfect* though ;P 20:58:13 Yes. 20:58:27 Many music programs support only twelve tone equal temperament, which is good enough for most music, but not everything. 20:58:36 Vorpal: As good as can be achieved for mass distribution, though. 20:59:06 Music-wise BytePusher seems a bit "boring", in the sense that it's just sampled audio playback, not e.g. some funky digital/analog hybrid synth-chip with interesting distortions (I'm obviously referring to the SID here). 20:59:10 zzo38, I seem to remember my electrical piano supports other tunings than equal temperament. 20:59:23 doubt midi supports it though 20:59:32 pikhq, well yes 20:59:35 Also: 32-bit audio there is kinda overkill. 20:59:57 pikhq, there = ? 21:00:14 32-bit PCM is sufficient for recording the full dynamic range possible in air. 21:00:18 This includes shock waves. 21:00:19 right 21:00:28 Vorpal: My digital piano also supports other tunings, but only a few, and not Bohlen-Pierce or 19-tone tunings or anything else like that. 21:00:36 pikhq, what about other media than air though? 21:00:48 It varies from medium to medium... 21:01:14 Double-precision floating-point audio; freedom from dynamic-range problems. 21:01:33 zzo38, right. And I can't find the manual for my piano atm. So not sure about what it supports exactly 21:01:34 fizzie: But now you've got imperfect reproduction. 21:01:48 what about quadruple precision then? 21:01:55 fizzie: 32-bit 44.1 kHz can perfectly represent all sounds that humans can hear in air. 21:01:59 But I have figured out a way to write Bohlen-Pierce music in .IT format, although it doesn't work the best way, since you have to store a sample for each pitch! http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/music2/bohlen-pierce.it 21:02:19 Not just "close enough that the differences are irrelevant". Literally perfect. 21:02:24 pikhq, what about something in between two values though? 21:02:44 pikhq: There's 52 bits of precision in a double, it can't be any more imperfect than a 32-bit integer. And if you go overkill, you should really go overkill well. 21:02:55 pikhq, I mean, lets say we have 1000 and 1001 as two values, what about representing a sound in between those? 21:02:57 Do you think this bohlen-pierce.it music works? Obviously it won't work for anything more complicated than what I have done there 21:03:22 pikhq, of course this is probably pointlessly detailed 21:03:23 It's not "literally perfect" until you hit the Heisenberg limits. :p 21:03:23 but still 21:03:33 fizzie: Which you do. And go far, far beyond. 21:03:45 I find that pretty suspicious. 21:03:49 fizzie, hm Heisenberg limits? 21:03:59 h is a very small number, after all. 21:04:11 is this about quantum mechanics suddenly? 21:04:15 O, you mean Planck units? 21:04:17 or am I confusing a name 21:04:32 Vorpal: Quantum-mechanics uncertainty about the momentum of the air molecules, you see. 21:04:40 fizzie, ahahahaha 21:05:22 fizzie, that isn't enough. Get a compensator for it. Like in star trek. Used to explain how it is possible to beam people iirc 21:05:34 Vorpal: Sample a wave with a sampling rate twice its frequency. Apply the Whittaker-Shannon interpolation formula. You have the *precise* original waveform. 21:06:22 pikhq, I find having anything precise in a real world measurement pretty suspicious... 21:06:41 but I'm no expert on this area 21:06:52 Vorpal: It is mathematically precise. In terms of the real-world, you are limited by the quality of your measuring equipment. 21:07:04 right 21:07:05 pikhq: That would assume continuous-value samples there. Otherwise you'd get quantization noise anyway. Unless the physics of a pressure wave give some limits here, but I'd like to see references for that. 21:08:16 fizzie: Adding finite ranges of samples limits the amplitude... 21:08:51 Hrm. Lemme find in precisely the manner it does so. 21:09:01 I didn't quite understand that last bit. 21:09:16 anyway why are you limiting yourself to air? 21:09:43 Vorpal: Because we don't generally care about other media 21:10:08 I mean, a finite range of real numbers has just as many real numbers than R, it doesn't help to give a maximum pressure there. You should somehow limit the number of possible pressure levels to < 2^32. 21:11:11 The whole notion of "pressure" gets a bit tricky if you start to consider individual molecules, though. Hmh. 21:12:39 hi calamari 21:12:51 hey cpressey 21:12:57 Argh. Quantization does add a small amount of error. 21:12:58 fizzie, why not record the speed and time of each individual molecule hitting your sound recording hardware? 21:13:25 possibly also location on the device in question 21:14:06 Vorpal: Why not, indeed! You should sell that sort of stuff to hifists. (It doesn't even have to actually do the impossibilities, they'll pay bazillion dollars for it anyway if you do the marketing right.) 21:14:18 Though one could *quite* feasibly put it up to bitrates that would make a 1-bit difference be below Heisenberg limits, if you set the maximum value as the maximum possible volume in your prefered medium. 21:14:22 Behold, a new use for Google's compute base. 21:15:32 fizzie, yes I realise it is of course infeasible if not impossible :P 21:16:17 pikhq, and you claim 32-bit is that for air? 21:16:49 fizzie, hm should make it go to 12 as well while I'm at it. 21:18:27 and to answer the inevitable question "go to 12 for what", it doesn't matter. Just pick any suitable setting knob 21:18:39 Vorpal: Actually, I'm going to make the actual, proper calculation, now that I've thought about it some. 21:19:07 pikhq, right. 21:19:24 * pikhq figures out the conversion rate between a Pascal and a planck mass per (planck length * planck time^2) 21:19:42 (that is, M/(L*T^2) 21:19:44 ) 21:19:49 pikhq, I guess insanely large or insanely small 21:20:14 though it could be something reasonable-sized. Who knows 21:20:25 Ah, there it is. 21:20:38 4.63309 × 10113 Pa per M/(L*T^2) 21:20:46 10113? 21:20:52 Erm. 21:20:54 10^113 21:21:00 ah 10¹¹³ 21:21:07 pikhq, :P 21:22:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:22:48 Sooo... A shock wave is 2.18698536 × 10^-129 planck pressures, and that did not help me at all. 21:23:04 pikhq, -129? 21:23:14 is planck pressures then a VERY VERY large unit? 21:23:27 Yes. 21:23:31 ah 21:23:35 It's 4.63309 * 10^133 pascals. 21:23:43 ouch! 21:24:08 -!- tombom__ has joined. 21:24:11 * pikhq looks for better units 21:25:47 -!- tombom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:25:58 Fuck it. I'm calling 32 bits good enough arbitrarily. 21:26:09 Screw quantisation error. If it matters, you are a freak. 21:26:50 pikhq, you aren't persistent enough 21:27:14 pikhq, anyway... 21:27:22 if 2.18698536 × 10^-129 is max 21:27:39 what is the heisenberg limit? 21:27:47 then just take that range 21:28:24 then take the range 0 to 2.18698536 × 10^-129 and divide in 2^32, if less than heisenberg limit, it is enough 21:28:28 pikhq, or? 21:28:32 did I miss something? 21:28:54 The problem is the Heisenberg limit for pressure; I certainly am not a physicist enough to start guesstimating it. 21:29:15 right, but is my basic idea sound? 21:29:30 < fizzie> The whole notion of "pressure" gets a bit tricky if you start to consider individual molecules, though. Hmh. 21:29:40 fizzie, also this is pressure, but what defines frequency hm? I'm not audio engineer enough to know this 21:29:57 Might be better to model it directly as the electric and strong forces that are causing it, at that point. 21:29:59 but certainly you can have differently loud sound at the same frequency? 21:30:33 cpressey, a bit tricky to record that, no? 21:30:45 You just need enough precision bits to handle all possible pressure levels; and then sample often enough to catch all physically possible frequencies. 21:31:01 fizzie, ah, so what sampling frequency do we need? 21:31:29 I don't know about that, but probably not something horribly huge. 21:31:35 oh? 21:32:28 fizzie, what sort of playback device do you need to play back below 1 Hz I wonder 21:32:37 Vorpal: I can't see how it would be much different from recoring the pressure on a single air molecule. 21:32:40 I know my headphones claim to go down to 5 Hz 21:32:46 which is quite absurdly extreme 21:32:50 *recording 21:33:01 cpressey, hm okay 21:34:43 If you're willing to limit yourself to humans, you can start to derive limits from the ear; those limits are lot more reasonable-sized, but they're a bit "soft" limits. 21:38:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:40:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:06 What are algorithms for simulation of Guqin scales? 21:43:19 fizzie: Though *pressure* probably has reasonable limits if you merely limit yourself to a specific medium. 21:45:06 wtf are you talking about 21:45:30 from simplistic VM to quantum physics -> #esoteric 21:50:51 -!- choochter has joined. 21:52:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:54:45 -!- tombom_ has joined. 21:57:37 -!- tombom__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:04:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:05:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:16:15 nooga: they're talking about perfect audio reproduction 22:16:45 but somehow they've magically found perfect mics and speakers 22:18:03 with THD of 0 and perfectly flat frequency response over an insanely large range 22:19:37 It was more about audio storage/transmission, where we just postulate the existence of perfect recording and playback equipment. 22:21:57 -!- augur has joined. 22:23:15 * cpressey joins some other freenode channels on a whim 22:23:36 Suspecting this will just confirm my suspicion that this is the only one that will hold my interest 22:24:14 cpressey: I used to go to #crypto .. that one had some good discussions 22:24:22 Oo, many times I've been considering doing that, but never managed to decide where to join to. 22:24:54 Ha! There's a #falcon 22:26:36 I can set up channels on my own IRC server, too, for things that you might want, and they will automatically be logged. So that can be used if you need this kind of service (if you don't, there are other IRC networks too) 22:26:47 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:27:29 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:27:45 sometimes when my kids throw a fit is is absolutely hilarious, but I haven't decided if laughing would cause them long term emotional harm 22:35:13 Ask them which way they prefer? 22:36:26 Well. The maintenance guy came up to fix the oven, took it apart (with bits of it all over the kitchen floor now), then left while I was in the other room. Presumably to get a necessary tool or something. Haven't seen him in 20 minutes now, though. 22:36:31 I wonder how this will turn out. 22:39:47 with THD of 0 and perfectly flat frequency response over an insanely large range <-- THD? 22:40:17 A distortion measure. 22:40:23 Total harmonic distortion, was it? 22:40:46 cpressey, If you are still looking for extra channels, what about #haskell? 22:41:17 Vorpal: 16:40 -!- channels : #bash #scheme #ruby #picolisp #falcon #python #haskell ##pfsense #esoteric 22:41:40 cpressey, mhm. pfsense? falcon? 22:41:59 cpressey, #bash can be hilarious at times btw. 22:42:15 Vorpal: Yes! #falcon! 22:42:15 cpressey: A friend just facebooked (and a friend-of-a-friend told a similiar story) about a plumber that came to fix something, left saying "I'll need to go get some more tools from the car", and then never came back (or at least not in two weeks). 22:42:33 cpressey, watch out for greycat (regular there) trying to help a newbie. Headdesking will likely ensue! 22:43:15 fizzie, huh. 22:44:00 cpressey, seems he is offline atm though 22:44:19 cpressey, what is #falcon about? 22:44:24 cpressey, another suggestion: #erlang 22:44:47 cpressey, is it about the birds? 22:45:40 My guess would be the programming language. 22:45:58 Vorpal: Oh, you must have missed the recent, ah, research we've been doing into the Falcon language here recently. 22:46:18 cpressey, oh? what paradigm is it? 22:46:32 and why would anyone in this channel be interested in it 22:46:50 cpressey, I never hard of it as a programming language before today 22:47:35 Ooh 22:47:50 I never realized that XChat made it easy to manipulate autojoin channels! 22:48:14 Vorpal: Glad you asked! "Falcon provides six integrated programming paradigms: procedural, object oriented, prototype oriented, functional, tabular and message oriented." 22:48:34 fizzie: yeah 22:48:53 What's the difference between object-oriented and message oriented? 22:49:12 cpressey, ah okay.... sounds like aiming for bloated... Or to be more precise: tricky to pull that off in a good way and without getting bloated 22:49:52 cpressey, so what's so special about the language apart from supporting multiple paradigms 22:50:16 btw, what is the tabular programming paradigm? Lookup tables? 22:51:11 Vorpal: Please read the table on http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=facts -- in particular, the "Functional programming" row. 22:51:41 hm 22:51:42 Vorpal, in-memory SQLite with multiple copies of tables 22:52:04 Well, SQLite-like I guess 22:52:15 And not using SQL 22:52:20 Ok, my explanations suck 22:52:55 As far as I understand it, it means to say "None of these other languages try to embed S-expressions in an otherwise vanilla-procedural programming language" 22:55:04 cpressey, mhm 22:55:08 Oh, but my favourite part is how Falcon does "monadic programming" with "out of band values". 22:55:31 cpressey, you don't need s-expressions to be functional 22:55:40 for example, haskell 22:56:03 cpressey, "monadic programming" with "out of band values" <-- is it just me, or is that technobabel? 22:56:34 Vorpal: Ah, you may be catching on! 22:56:38 "Marking an item as out-of-band allows the creation of monads in functional evaluations. More automatism will be introduced in future, but scripters can have monads by assigning the oob status to complex objects and perform out-of-band processing on them." 22:57:18 cpressey, where did it say that? 22:57:21 * Vorpal greps the page 22:57:23 I'm really wondering if I'm sick enough to try CODING something in this language. I have the implementation installed... 22:57:34 Vorpal: It's on http://www.falconpl.org/project_docs/core/funset_oob_support.html 22:57:37 ah 22:58:16 cpressey, are all parts as bad as the functional part? 22:58:28 cpressey, or are the procedural parts better? 22:59:44 cpressey, also the way to measure "raw loop speed" is utterly silly. Just throw in an llvm style JIT there and it would probably constant fold it 23:00:31 Vorpal: I think it's fair to say that it's their approach to language design & implementation, that I find entertaining. 23:00:42 Er, and to ... language marketing. 23:01:01 cpressey, not as bad as mathematica though 23:01:15 The language itself, if you take out the "ooh! functional!" parts, is pretty plain-jane pythonish-rubyish-whatnot, it looks like. 23:01:22 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 23:01:30 Vorpal: Well! When you get into "math tools" -- have you seen R? 23:01:33 OMG, R. 23:01:37 As someone who understands monads, I wish to object to this 23:01:48 Phantom_Hoover: :D 23:01:50 cpressey, read the first paragraph on http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/FunctionalProgramming.html 23:02:03 cpressey, that is one huge ego making false claims 23:02:18 cpressey, I have heard of R. I never used it. 23:02:18 Apparently Haskell and OCaml do not even register to the hugeness of Wolfram's ego. 23:02:22 can't remember what the code looks like 23:02:34 Phantom_Hoover, or LISP 23:02:38 Vorpal: Loading. Ah - I should have said "When you get into things done by Wolfram -- well!" 23:02:38 Vorpal, it's for st-t-st-cs 23:02:50 cpressey, indeed 23:02:56 Phantom_Hoover, ? 23:03:14 * Phantom_Hoover cannot tell for the life of him what Falcon calls monads 23:03:14 "Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language." 23:03:15 oh you removed vowels 23:03:16 why 23:03:18 Vorpal: OK! You win 23:03:21 ! 23:03:29 FINALLY 23:03:31 cpressey, what? 23:03:34 cpressey, I won what? 23:03:42 A truly convenient and practical functional programming language! 23:03:47 Vorpal: The Bad Language Marketing Game 23:03:55 I mean, is the OOB stuff doing functor-related things? 23:04:11 cpressey, it also has "industrial-strength string manipulation" according to another page 23:04:14 cpressey, Mathematica isn't *that* unpleasant, just agglutinative to an insane degree. 23:04:17 cpressey, what on earth that means I don't know 23:04:24 Phantom_Hoover: OOB seems to "tag" a value with a special invisible quality which makes some built-in functions do something different with it when they receive it. 23:04:38 Phantom_Hoover: And you thought *I* had a nuts view of monads. 23:04:40 It means that it can be used in string factories. 23:04:52 Phantom_Hoover, hah 23:05:51 it seems to have functions to compute hamming distance and edit distance... And dictionary lookup. Apart from that it seems like a fairly normal set of functions for string processing 23:06:29 If it can be computed, Mathematica has a built-in function for it. 23:06:38 close 23:07:01 cpressey, what about this one: 23:07:04 "Mathematica provides a uniquely integrated and automated environment for parallel computing. With zero configuration, full interactivity and seamless local and network operation, the symbolic character of the Mathematica language allows immediate support of a variety of existing and new parallel programming paradigms and data-sharing models." 23:07:07 having tried it... 23:07:12 I can say it is shoddy at best 23:08:08 and not very automatic at all 23:08:16 I would rather say it is a PITA to use 23:08:37 "Google saw it and it blew them away! They just up and stopped using MapReduce and started using MATHEMATICA instead!" 23:08:45 cpressey, I'm not sure if I would rather use it or pthreads. And considering what a PITA pthreads is... that says about everything... 23:08:58 cpressey, any idea on what Falcon does when it natters about monads? 23:09:16 "At the core of Mathematica's symbolic programming paradigm is the concept of transformation rules for arbitrary symbolic patterns. Mathematica's pattern language conveniently describes a very general set of classes of expressions, making possible uniquely readable, elegant and efficient programs." 23:09:18 Phantom_Hoover: I am tempted to ask in #falcon. Maybe after I've had a few drinks. 23:09:22 that one, I'm not sure what they mean 23:09:38 Phantom_Hoover: But, basically, what I said about it adding a "tag" to a value, is all I can tell. 23:09:46 * Phantom_Hoover is sleep-deprived 23:09:47 that statement is curiously devoid of any factual information 23:09:50 That'll do. 23:09:55 /join #falcon 23:10:03 but it sure sound pretentious! 23:10:21 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:10:42 Vorpal: So it's a... rewriting language. 23:10:56 cpressey, yes that's about all it says 23:11:40 cpressey, mathematica wouldn't so bad if they didn't try to boost it's abilities to this degree. With some more factual documentation it would still turn out a decent product. 23:12:15 shoddy in many parts though, and worth about 1/6 of the price 23:12:36 but it wouldn't look so bad compared to it's own documentation! 23:13:28 cpressey, anyway, it should come at no great surprise that a CAS like mathematica is based on rewriting symbolic expressions 23:14:06 heck, that is likely the sanest way to implement a simplification function, by rewriting rules 23:14:28 bbiab 23:14:56 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:14:57 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 23:18:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:21:16 Is it just me and my Haskell naïveté, or is it a rather ugly hack to add support for monads straight into a language? 23:21:40 Oh damn, I haven't been following this. 23:22:46 Phantom_Hoover, what is? 23:22:47 Now invent something like METAFONT but for music synthesis. 23:22:55 Phantom_Hoover: Well, uh, "tabular programming paradigm" -- need I say more? 23:22:58 cpressey, apparently OOB allows special handling of objects. 23:23:11 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it's a "please handle me specially" bit. 23:23:13 Phantom_Hoover, I'm not sure that makes monads though 23:23:22 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:23:23 Phantom_Hoover, can't see how to do the IO monad with it for example 23:23:32 I assume from this that they've implemented some horrible hack that bashes functors in somehow. 23:24:30 cpressey, looks like they ignore TeX too: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/MathematicalTypesetting.html 23:24:38 I still don't think you can get proper monads from this. 23:24:43 and yes, TeX is in my opinion far better 23:25:09 maybe they are correct about the input, but that is just how they render it 23:25:13 * Phantom_Hoover assumed it used TeX already. 23:25:27 but the rendered result is shoddy compared to TeX using CM 23:25:32 Phantom_Hoover, no it doesn't afaik 23:25:39 That NIH is slightly worse than zzo's. 23:27:30 -!- madbr has joined. 23:27:31 TeX is better, and it is better for more than just mathematical typesetting. Mathematica is just a large program that does too many things and costs a lot of money, and is not Free Software. 23:27:59 Well, you can get around the money pretty easily. 23:28:04 indeed. We were poking fun at wolfram's large ego 23:28:07 Phantom_Hoover, indeed 23:28:07 http://fr.justin.tv/surasshu#/w/361774448 <-chipmusic stream 23:28:32 (original songs from famicompo, quality varies ofc :D) 23:30:19 I don't want that, do you have the .NSF files instead? (If they are written on .NSF, that is.....) 23:30:42 yeah 23:30:55 http://midr2.under.jp/compo/vol7/index.html 23:30:59 link is on these 23:32:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:32:33 OK thanks, why didn't you just post that one at first? 23:32:55 cause we're doing a synclisten in espernet #mod_shrine 23:33:05 but yeah that's fine too 23:33:10 check out original #1 23:33:59 -!- teuchter has joined. 23:34:13 -!- alise has joined. 23:34:43 * oerjan was wondering about the alise deficiency 23:34:54 madbr: Original #1 is the one I currently have playing 23:35:02 oerjan: I simply had to be at a place today. 23:35:30 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:35:52 yes but it's evening now 23:36:17 oerjan, it's very nearly morning. 23:37:04 depends on your definition of "morning" - it feels strange to call just after 12 am morning 23:37:32 O! Entry number 2 uses MMC5 23:40:08 An idea I have is to make a .NSF music with multiple tracks, where each track is a variation of the same music, such as looping/non-looping, different waveforms, turning the music backward and/or upsidedown, different temperament, and so on 23:40:24 oerjan: I had to get up early and couldn't sleep; after coming back, I was tired enough to want to rest a bit before trekking up the stairs. 23:41:03 zzo: not allowed in famicompo :( (no multi-tracks) 23:41:30 Who wrote this BytePusher/ByteByteJump thing anyway? Someone not on-channel, apparently? 23:41:37 javamannen on the wiki 23:41:42 Can .NSF format use different temperament? 23:41:58 zzo: yeah but why would you use it 23:42:12 madbr: Why is that? What if they just make it if it has multiple tracks, they just use only track zero 23:42:31 Or, if they won't accept multi-tracks, just change the number of tracks in the header to zero before submitting the file 23:42:32 I dunno, they just have a rule against it :/ 23:42:39 (I mean, to one track) 23:43:21 madbr: So that you can use just intonation music, or pythagorean tuning (for Chinese music), or Bohlen-Pierce, or any other temperament, instead of using twelve tone equal temperament all the time 23:43:44 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:44:04 madbr: Do they accept it if the file has multiple tracks but you change the header so it says it is only one track, and the others are not accessible unless someone fixes the file? 23:44:19 yeah but in practice pythagorean is almost exactly like equal temperament 23:45:20 madbr: Yes it is close, but for some things it is better. 23:46:12 bohlen-pierce has like no octave or no 5th 23:46:30 zzo: the difference is like less than the nes tuning accuracy 23:46:56 (well, or so one might assume, the initial edits were anonymous ip. "javamannen" means "the java man" in norwegian, btw) 23:47:29 madbr: Yes that is true, but that is because Bohlen-Pierce has different intervals instead, for writing different kind of music. Just like just intonation and Mersenne and so on is all for different kind of music. 23:47:40 < Phantom_Hoover> I assume from this that they've implemented some horrible hack that bashes functors in somehow. <-- I simply assumed they wanted the use the word "monad" without regard for what it meant. 23:47:48 Oh, it's still goin. 23:47:49 zzo: but yeah in some music engines like it2nsf it's easy to detune by about the right amount 23:47:50 *going 23:48:17 Well, after much questioning, I still have little idea what they're going on about. 23:48:26 it2nsf can detune in 1/16ths of a semitone 23:49:07 madbr: That is, if you are using a program like it2nsf. If you program directly instead, you could program it however you want (within the limits of the NES APU and any audio addons that are part of the .NSF format) 23:49:41 zzo: that's not a good strategy for making music 23:50:06 simply because it makes it harder to put in notes and listen to what you're doing 23:50:35 Some people listened to music in their mind because they cannot hear it 23:51:08 Tracker programs are just too limited in my opinion 23:51:21 limited? by what? :D 23:52:11 Limited in all sorts of ways. These programs are not METAFONT! 23:52:53 -!- teuchter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:53:09 I think I've come to a degree of understanding over OOB monads, and my conclusion from this is that they're so hideous I won't explain out of kindness. 23:54:00 Phantom_Hoover: Thank you. 23:54:02 metafont? 23:54:23 madbr: Have you heard of TeX? METAFONT is the program to design fonts for TeX documents. 23:54:41 If I understand correctly, the way they do it will cause map to explode if you use a monad in it. 23:55:05 And I think TeX and METAFONT are very good for the things they do. 23:55:37 And various other bits are so crazy that I feel that I must have got them wrong, but fear that I haven't. 23:56:17 Phantom_Hoover: Good times! 23:56:21 zzo: well, it's kinda like... mml is more flexible than trackers 23:56:33 cpressey, what's going on now? 23:56:36 but mml is for aspies really 23:56:45 Phantom_Hoover: OOB? 23:56:45 madbr: What does "mml" means? 23:56:54 alise, you know Falcon? 23:57:03 mml is a system used mostly by japanese composers 23:57:11 No, thankfully; but yes, of it. 23:57:16 Somewhere they said they could do monads through some mysterious OOB thing. 23:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: Not much. Mathnerd314 is continuing to... explore their concepts. 23:57:29 basically you write your song in text format and it compiles it to nsf 23:57:30 I, curious, investigated. 23:57:42 Phantom_Hoover: Well, by which I mean, he said something. 23:57:47 The rest is basically Lovecraft but with crappy languages. 23:58:05 madbr: Where is more information? 23:58:24 alise: We discovered that there is a #falcon channel on freenode. Hilarity ensued! 23:58:51 Oh no. 23:58:54 zzo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Macro_Language 23:58:59 OK 23:59:03 cpressey: Watch as I get banned! 23:59:06 cpressey, alise didn't join, did he? 23:59:11 Phantom_Hoover: You bet it, baby. 23:59:13 :| 23:59:17 Wow, it's like the insane asylum created an outpost, and it's on IRC! 23:59:18 This I must see! 23:59:51 Aww, he ignores me because I hurt his feelings.