< 1283299272 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1283299336 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu[laptop] < 1283300347 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: SyntaxError: it would appear your syntax is in error < 1283300386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, jsforth < 1283300398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares for alise to make some sort of statement expressing disapproval
< 1283300493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rx-core.org/jsvm/ < 1283300501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forthfreak.net/jsforth.html < 1283300516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://wiki.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?jsforth) < 1283300522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close to the virtual metal? < 1283300526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://solidcoding.blogspot.com/2008/12/wforth-javascript-forth-interpreter.html < 1283300533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nuff said < 1283300565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting more of a "Don't use it" than a "It already exists" < 1283300582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1283300586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with it, a bit useless though < 1283300599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be made to work with Chrome < 1283300630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is considering LSL-Forth
< 1283300637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, apparently, already has been done < 1283300644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think it's been mass marketed < 1283300668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I wanted to do with a Scheme in LSL, and would want to do the same with a Forth < 1283300673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme might be easier < 1283300674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, when talking about selling Second Life stuff you manage to sound as obnoxious as "social media gurus". < 1283300678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get acceptance stuff < 1283300706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not a large clueless company < 1283300749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are "social media gurus"; they're just clueless < 1283300785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that wForth is worthless
< 1283300804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have SEE, it doesn't have c., < 1283300821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has neither postpone nor [compile] < 1283300831 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283300853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have XTs < 1283300874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have .s < 1283300893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised it actually has : and ; < 1283300922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No S" < 1283300939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ' nor ['] < 1283300953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1283300954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1283300956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No immediate < 1283301057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSVM treats enter and space as the same thing, which I guess isn't necessarily bad < 1283301588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's RetroForth. < 1283301591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that. < 1283301602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just ported their VM to JS. < 1283301657 0 :Killerkid!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283302094 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283302289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if LSL-Forth should use native LSL strings or in-memory stuff
< 1283302432 0 :Killerkid!~l1am9111@host86-176-107-174.range86-176.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283302464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mu; it should not exist. < 1283302516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has as much right to exist as jsforth does < 1283302646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but jsforth isn't marketed as something you should actually use. < 1283302695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with trying to get people to use a hypothetical LSL-Forth? < 1283302715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess an LSL-Scheme would be easier < 1283302723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More difficult to implement an LSL-Scheme though < 1283303124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it would be easier to implement Scheme in Forth than directly in LSL
< 1283303443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: : min 2dup < if drop ; then nip ; : max ... < 1283303454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What min would look like in colorForth (with translation of colours to symbols) < 1283303460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out how it works! < 1283303473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming those words are defined in cF, I don't know) < 1283303487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't remember nip
< 1283303636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nip == swap drop ? < 1283304134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1283304136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wtfs at that : before max
< 1283304145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defining max < 1283304148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just showing how it ended < 1283304151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however, it is relevant) < 1283304154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: note the multiple ;s < 1283304159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nip isn't the important thing < 1283304172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can explain :P < 1283304174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your min does not have a sensible stack effect < 1283304195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess I have no clue wtf that extra ; is for < 1283304206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION think he has guessed
< 1283304222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's related to how you said cf does proper TCO... < 1283304231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes it does < 1283304241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll explain it, since nobody is cool enough to get it < 1283304243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from oerjan < 1283304247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Sgeo isn't cool enough to get it < 1283304252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ; does /not/ terminate the definition < 1283304255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinks < 1283304257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; merely compiles as a return < 1283304260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no "else" < 1283304261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here we have < 1283304269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2dup > if drop ; then nip ; < 1283304270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1283304272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're > < 1283304274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop then return < 1283304277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, the return will be skipped < 1283304282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we nip then return < 1283304286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you terminate definitions? < 1283304287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1283304288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by starting another one < 1283304291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the : max < 1283304296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or max-in-red in cF itself) < 1283304315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't deny that that's cool. < 1283304323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so how do you actually start interpreting again? < 1283304337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit in normal Forths does the same thing, right? < 1283304343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think so < 1283304346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not actually sure. < 1283304352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably there is some word for it < 1283304354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283304371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ~all of colorForth is blocks of word definitions, so < 1283304378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOvqeABHvQ wtf < 1283304379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc you never actually see : < 1283304379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1283304383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[red NAME] [green WORDS] < 1283304384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[red NAME] [green WORDS] < 1283304384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283304425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw, you can "tail-recurse" in any forth < 1283304426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ; isn't yet another color? < 1283304428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rdrop foo < 1283304432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope, it's a regular word < 1283304439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not syntax highlighting, only actual semantic differences < 1283304446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's rdrop? < 1283304451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop from return stack < 1283304457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly what you think it is < 1283304466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh hm < 1283304468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it work < 1283304468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the return stack is standardized? < 1283304477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um ... it's a vital part of any Forth ... of course it is. < 1283304509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but the things in it are guaranteed to have a specific meaning? Can't one Forth possibly use two cells for each thingy? < 1283304542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1283304556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, of course it can; but a Forth can do anything it likes. < 1283304563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANS Forth doesn't say it can, though, but that's not worth anything. < 1283304573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, the only thing that matters is that no Forth does that anyone knows of. < 1283304580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because return stack manipulation is VERY common. < 1283304596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out why rdrop doesn't wokr. < 1283304597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work. < 1283304627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, return stack manipulation for the purposes of manipulating the return stack, or for trivial temporary storage? < 1283304657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former. < 1283304666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, both. < 1283304700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ok ." ok" ; ok < 1283304700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok ok < 1283304858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsfwish < 1283304899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1283304921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video I pasted < 1283304999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't. < 1283305042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pasted a URL to a video < 1283305232 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283305336 0 :Chat2705!dmznqn@69.41.179.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283305342 0 :Chat2705!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283305544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wrong < 1283305546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the logs < 1283305692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is technically correct < 1283305710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit long to wait before saying "nsfw.*", though < 1283305713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1283305780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit long before that part played < 1283305783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have never seen Rejected? < 1283305784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1283305794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have today < 1283305847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the firmament on which the internet is based < 1283306735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a typical way to do events in Forth? < 1283306746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somext someevent < 1283306747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283306946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... don't < 1283306949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup ( a b -- a b a b ) over over ; < 1283306984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1283306997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? < 1283307005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1283307010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup dup dup ; < 1283307018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, uh... < 1283307019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup postpone dup postpone dup ; immediate < 1283307022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1283307024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not < 1283307025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking < 1283307026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2xdup < 1283307028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not dup over two < 1283307039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 2dup postpone over postpone over ; immediate < 1283307039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283307047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why postpone? < 1283307063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would 2dup be immediate? < 1283307088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you're also thinking of over as immediate. Why? < 1283307095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the immediateness is ... alarming < 1283307182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postpone < 1283307186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: simple < 1283307190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 2dup should compile to over over < 1283307196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having to be called < 1283307197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's so simple < 1283307221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically inlining < 1283307226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth will not understand this. It will desperately look for the words 'this', 'will', etc. However the word '' will mark everything up to the end of the line as comment. So this will work: < 1283307301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : *. * . ; This will multiply and print two numbers < 1283307341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there should be a \ , but I simply don't see it < 1283307402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad escaping obviously < 1283307572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that aw-create thing? < 1283307577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should really use a value < 1283307868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would attempting to popularize LSL-Scheme make more sense? < 1283308450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both make 0 sense. < 1283308527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, LSL sucks < 1283308530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horribly < 1283308753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lavishly sucking language < 1283308780 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283308803 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283308874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "The ANS Forth standard does not express Moore's vision of Forth. Moore believes the ANS standard is far too large and complex, and he doesn't see much value in any standard since people should write their own Forth. It is fair to say that most of the Forth community disagrees." < 1283308923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is fair to say that "most of the X community" is defined as the writer's opinions on X. < 1283308929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weasel words; look them up. < 1283309104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should attempt to figure out the return stack < 1283309168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat's the point of ?dup? < 1283309177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effect on the stack is conditional < 1283309180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Its < 1283309368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1283309373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupidity. < 1283309425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it makes sense to 'boot into Open Firmware'
< 1283309682 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1283310047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My locker number is 24 < 1283310608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders ForthNomic
< 1283310628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doable... but the result would necessarily be very much unforthlike < 1283311178 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283312573 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283312873 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llaallaa < 1283312983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llama rama < 1283313211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rama llama :o < 1283313438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autopsy < 1283313460 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283313517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-psy < 1283313601 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283314020 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1283314050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychic autos < 1283314481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283319374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1283319990 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283320012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello did those you, who you wanted to install MegaZeux, done it yet? < 1283320205 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283320260 0 :cheater00!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283320451 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283321238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just learned that I can't make an AW SDK wrapper for Gforth < 1283321258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: O, you can't? < 1283321266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, actually, possibly I can, but I need to use undocumented stuff < 1283321272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it needs callbacks < 1283321276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Callbacks.html#Callbacks < 1283321292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could somehow implement callbacks in Gforth, somehow < 1283321318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, true, I guess, but I'd have no clue where to start < 1283321377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure when ?dup is useful < 1283321386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't know either, but I have some guesses < 1283321392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do know when ?DUP is useful. < 1283321405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is sometimes useful in ?DUP IF or ?DUP WHILE constructions < 1283321453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do callbacks, perhaps, push stuff in stack, store address in return stack, when it returns pop what is needed and then return to the other program. Maybe, that might work? I don't know. < 1283321570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: rdrop r> drop ; ( except no, this would probably not be what a potential user would want ) < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1283321644 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283321681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god < 1283321689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That definitions of rdrop wouldn't work so well, if... < 1283321695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the xkcd alt text today is geeky < 1283321698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a thought involving a definition with 6 POSTPONE in the body < 1283321725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition you give might act like EXIT does.... < 1283321758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise was doing something akin to inlinine < 1283321761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd use that < 1283321769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I might have a stack of postpones < 1283321789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factored out with a definition that drops in multiple postpones... but the postpones need to be double < 1283321791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doubled < 1283321792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to inline the code, you use POSTPONE and IMMEDIATE < 1283321794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1283321840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pattern should be factored out into, say, a inline: < 1283321841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I move that we postpone this conversation indefinitely < 1283321846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too tired and late to do it now < 1283321894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to make the definition clearer if you modify the parser to support backtick notation < 1283321905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtick notation? < 1283321958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtick notation is something that some Forth systems support, I think the first one might have been HELFORTH, although I cannot find any information about it anymore. MegaZeux and TAVSYS also support backtick notation. < 1283321975 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is more interested in what it does than what its history is
< 1283321988 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtick notation does this: < 1283321995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; < 1283322001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : THEN` HERE SWAP ! ; < 1283322026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the word IF` is the word to compile IF and DUP` is the word to compile DUP and so on. < 1283322055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But didn't whatn you just put attempt to define IF` ? < 1283322084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you write that more clearly, please? < 1283322170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; an example of using it, or an example of defining IF` ? < 1283322187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an example of defining IF` < 1283322197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an example of using it. < 1283322198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, as in the compilation semantics of IF? < 1283322203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283322228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Forths use compile-only < 1283322236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most use IMMEDIATE < 1283322244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1283322254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, most would use immediate and be state-smart < 1283322262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking STATE < 1283322278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that that's largely not a good thing to do < 1283322351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct, that is not generally a good thing to do < 1283322404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : ELSE` GOTO` ORIG SWAP THEN` ; < 1283322590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an event system, what would it normally look like from the high level? < 1283322596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somext someevent < 1283322597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283322658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see how MegaZeux does it, which is one possible way < 1283322678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The addresses are stored in a event array < 1283322719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the built-in word to create them is :EVENT ( event-number -- )(enter compile mode) < 1283322784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes a lot of sense < 1283322792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, built in? < 1283322804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, not written in MegaZeux Forth? < 1283322824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it is not primitive, it is built-in to the standard library. < 1283322831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1283322831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is written in MegaZeux Forth. < 1283322838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just made a kind of small mistake) < 1283322872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to brush teeth and go sleep < 1283322892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should avoid deliberately using bad grammar < 1283322953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter, as long as it can be possible to understand it < 1283323057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example of an event code in MegaZeux Forth might look like: SimpleLock EV.ITEM + :EVENT DROP BOARD_COLOR + @ TAKEKEY ; < 1283323115 0 :aortizm!~aortizm@190.149.64.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283323120 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283323124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi aortizm < 1283323142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what happens if EV.ITEM happens to be too large to h.. oh, wait, n/m < 1283323144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1283323165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess when I saw the ., my mind went to OOP mode, and thought it was a variable (well, value) < 1283323177 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Sgeo, I'm seeking someone who knows about possetions < 1283323200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aortizm, sorry, this channel is not about the spiritual type of esoterica < 1283323207 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1283323220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is about esoteric programming languages... languages that are made not for practical use, but for other reasons < 1283323227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not seek to be mainstream languages < 1283323237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EV.ITEM is a constant representing the value you must add to the kind ID number, to make the event number. < 1283323250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain**** is an example of an esoteric programming language < 1283323252 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perhaps it could use some usefull info.. < 1283323254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the more famous ones < 1283323273 0 :aortizm!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283323275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL < 1283323295 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aortizm: But sometimes other things are discussed too. But not always. (There was topic message in here once about the spiritual type, but that is not the main purpose of this channel, so if you have on-topic stuff to discuss, it takes priority, generally) < 1283323309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, aortizm left < 1283323331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I see that, I wonder if they know where is the logs, maybe they should look at esolang wiki, too, to see what it is < 1283323351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly doubt that e's interested < 1283323365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully he doesn't attempt to exorcise anyone < 1283323372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be correct, surely < 1283323654 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283323713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have kern information for MagicMedieval font and MPlantin font? I have found program to convert TTF font to METAFONT, but, it doesn't convert kern information or ligature information. Do you have kern and ligature information? < 1283323827 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1283323830 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to know so that I can write templates for TeXnicard < 1283323841 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283323877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found information about the .DVI and .*GF formats, so I can write a DVI driver, I already started it a bit < 1283323982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates text layers using the fonts and typeset text in the DVI file, and combines those pictures with external pictures when building a ImageMagick command-line that generates the card pictures. You can enter arbitrary ImageMagick operators using DVI specials. < 1283324445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I need also is a special that converts units of measurement to pixels, so that these numbers are usable in ImageMagick regardless of what DPI resolution you are printing it at. < 1283324769 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283324919 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1283325018 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325327 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283325524 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283325781 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1283326395 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283326494 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get the mana symbols and tap symbols and those other things, also done in METAFONT? < 1283326720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders WAITUNTILEVENT
< 1283326758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no clue about kerning < 1283326787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: pixel size depends on DPI by definition < 1283326799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks it would probably be a good idea to make that a primitive
< 1283326801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and the symbols are images. No clue how you would get those into METAFONT < 1283326816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, I don't know all that much about METAFONT < 1283326911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do you know who can help? Yes I know about pixel size and stuff like that, the output format is in 1 pixel for 1 dot, so if it is printed at 300 DPI it will be a 1 inch picture will be 300 pixels long. < 1283326958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And although I could use pictures for the mana symbols, I think I could get a much better quality if METAFONT is used instead, in addition, using METAFONT means TeX can typeset them the same way as ordinary text. < 1283326989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that case, you'd have to METAFONT-ize them yourself < 1283327222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how I can write METAFONT macros for set symbols. The outline and fill of the set symbol can be separate text layers in dvinicard, and then some ImageMagick operators can be used to put fancy gradients and stuff like that. < 1283327262 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283327378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good is the quality of the mana symbols on cards generated by Magic Set Editor? I think using METAFONT can achieve much better quality. < 1283327643 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They are large images shrunken down < 1283327652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most resolutions you'd use them at, you won't notice a loss in quality < 1283327708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :165 x 178 < 1283327999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1283328000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1283328569 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E4843.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283328682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he should learn Factor
< 1283328827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Learn it if you want to, but I don't really like it much, and I think you do not need to learn Factor < 1283328923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have lost whatever faith in your country I had left: http://chzoddlyspecific.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/4a65c96b-360e-4853-a7a2-abc782e9ca49.jpg < 1283328953 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283328958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How large is a Magic: the Gathering card (in inches)? I did not find a ruler < 1283329009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 by 3.5 or thereabouts < 1283329092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each Magic card, approximately 63 x 88 mm in size (2 15⁄32 by 3 7⁄16 inches), --"; nowadays you can just ask such questions from Wikipedia. < 1283329123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15/32 and 7/16 are reasonably close to .5 though. < 1283329128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth < 1283329134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cards I have in my computer use a template 375 x 523 but that doesn't even make 300 DPI. And the cards must be printed at a higher resolution than that! < 1283329151 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283329152 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1283329183 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283329203 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283329234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually if I write this program emough, it might be able to produce better quality cards than official WotC cards even. And then you can sue them if they do not follow the GNU GPL license...... < 1283329267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :375x523 and those physical dimensions sounds like an approximately 150 dpi thing. < 1283329279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I have calculate it and it is approx 150 dpi < 1283329452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my program becomes good enough to be much higher quality than even official cards, then WotC can use it, if they learn how........ < 1283329469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they don't use it, their competitors will use it....... < 1283329501 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they could just keep the modifications in-house < 1283329517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, they can, but they would still have to learn < 1283329544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the included documentation would be sufficient < 1283329585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WotC lawyers are not slackoffs < 1283329673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1283329691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the program itself is not a template. < 1283329723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The template(s) would be separate packages that are not part of the program. < 1283329752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they can use the program and templates internally if they want to, even with private modifications < 1283329839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their competitors will make their own private improvements and they will be better than the one WotC uses < 1283329872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know who their competitors are, but surely their competitors can make templates, too) < 1283329990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does WotC even use TeX or METAFONT or ImageMagick at all? < 1283330013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised (but delighted) if they did. < 1283330069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My guess is horrible in-house tools built on top of some Windows graphical-design apps.) < 1283330094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to go kidnap an employee to make sure. < 1283330176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are probably correct, they probably use horrible in-house tools built on top of some Windows graphical-design apps. And they probably paid a lot of money for it! < 1283330554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people use Photoshop or GIMP, but I find ImageMagick is far superior. Some people use LaTeX, Microsoft Word, OpenOffice, etc, but I find Plain TeX is far superior. Some people use various other software for designing typefaces, but I find METAFONT is far superior. < 1283330683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1283330683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagemagick is not suitable for complex editing < 1283332328 0 :kuato!~kuato@bl15-29-138.dsl.telepac.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283332328 0 :kuato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1283333003 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283333073 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283333094 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283334175 0 :immibis!~user@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283334213 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"99 bottles of beer on the wall. 99 bottles of beer. If one of the bottles should suddenly fall, there'd be undefined bottles of beer on the wall"... < 1283334251 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283334394 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283334659 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283334938 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336432 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1283336492 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336546 0 :GuestA05364!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336561 0 :GuestA0586F!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283336566 0 :GuestA05364!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283336571 0 :GuestA0586F!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283337237 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283340281 0 :asiekierka!~user@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1283340286 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1283340289 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? < 1283340382 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-54-148.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283340426 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie i need you < 1283340737 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283342324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am at work, not very much here. < 1283342339 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can i send you a new style for fungot? < 1283342341 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: later incidents are chaotic. as i advanced, the light ahead seemed to grow in size and general outline. nor, said the dreams and the fancies they lost so many centuries ago, and no clear account of any kind, but my watch told me it was only the start. zeb here was callin' folks up an' everybody was a-listenin', an' i guess obed kind o' fnord an' i see every one was covered with pegs from which hung a set of pictures < 1283342348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23000-26000 comments from YouTube < 1283342361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. How big is it? < 1283342370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.8 megabytes < 1283342380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, then I guess an email attachment is fine. < 1283342386 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, for now < 1283342391 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will do updates to it once in a while < 1283344412 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283344825 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1283344834 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283345059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283346715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283348186 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283352057 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283352067 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1283352992 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283353011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This -- http://p.zem.fi/xcf -- made Xcolorforth compile, start, make a window, and not segfault on x86-64; unfortunately it still only produces a black window that needs to be kill -9'd away. The main point is sed -e 's/poll/cf_poll/g'; it renames the "poll" function in main.c; if you don't do that, SDL_Init (at least as non-root when it can't access the framebuffer device) will fail, presumably because SDL/Xlib/xcb/something expects "poll" to be the lib < 1283353011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c poll, not some other poll. < 1283353067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I believe a completely 32-bit binary must be made, since colorForth is 32-bit afaik < 1283353076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may be hard what with its memory antics, though < 1283353081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do it like that, it is a 32-bit binary, as far as I know. < 1283353087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283353099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try it as root? Yes, yes, suicide, I know. < 1283353106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I forgot to use REISUB; you may not be so stupid. < 1283353123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have root here, I'm at work. :p < 1283353130 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1283353132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only did things as root for me; then again, it was broken entirely. < 1283353136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aw. < 1283353188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I attached a gdb to it and backtraced; there was a call stack 5 levels deep inside the function "xcf", which is where it copies color.com contents to; I don't think I'm interested enough in starting to go through the asm code to find out why it's not drawing anything. < 1283353193 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283353198 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283353252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, but XCOLORFORTH! < 1283353253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5 levels in xcf, which had managed to then call the main.c function that makes SDL blit the framebuffer into the window, so I think it's likely it just wasn't drawing anything into it, for some reason or another.) < 1283353288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I can stay awake at home. Still, it's not exactly "bare metal" when ran using the SDL wrapper, now. < 1283353307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but it /is/ bizarre enough to be amusing. < 1283353350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should build a Windows binary, just for the discordance. < 1283353386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is a Windows colorForth already. < 1283353395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :/ Not then. < 1283353438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I doubt you'd get any Linux-specific bits to work, anyway. < 1283353446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming there /are/ some; I'm not exactly sure how modified color.s is. < 1283353452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If at all. < 1283353459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it must be, since it's gas syntax. < 1283353551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assembly bits don't seem to be doing very much Linux-specific things, though. The main.c wrapper passes on a pointer to the SDL surface pixel data, and two function pointers, one for refreshing the screen, and another for polling for keypresses. < 1283353567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1283353774 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283353923 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354166 0 :GuestA05364!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354167 0 :iGO!~xk001@78.130.9.190.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354186 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1283354252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1283354435 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354481 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354493 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283354518 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.184.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283354566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what alise thinks of factor
< 1283354628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is very interesting. The infrastructure, libraries and tools they have built themselves are utterly astonishing, surpassing many commercial languages. The language itself I'm not sure about; it doesn't seem that natural to use to me, but maybe I just haven't adjusted. < 1283354658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it parse itself the way Forth does? < 1283354676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the facilities for such words, yes. < 1283354678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember once looking at Factor and almost immediately rejecting it for some reason < 1283354698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's a bit more semantically-refined, which makes the reflective tools better, the code sometimes easier to understand. < 1283354715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I kind of get Forth, I think I'd be more ok with Factor < 1283354747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is definitely worth checking out. < 1283354754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tools and libraries /are/ absolutely amazing. < 1283354785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it might supplant my current love for Smalltalk? < 1283354796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, AW bindings for Factor! < 1283354805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably more reasonable than for Forth) < 1283354826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283354829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could obliterate every single bit comprising AW in this universe I would just to stop you trying to make bindings for it. < 1283354906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is " a word or something in Factor? There's no space between it and the content of the string < 1283354911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's.. weird < 1283354912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just some sort of a neurosis. You know, some people can't stand when a painting is hanging crooked, or need to alphabetize other people's books/records/whatever? Maybe some people just feel the need to write AW bindings for absolutely everything. < 1283354968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, AW bindings are a project that I want to do, and I should do some sort of project in each language I really want to understand... < 1283355003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick to writing more and more Befunge interpreters, like us sane people do. < 1283355054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: " is syntax; I think you can define your own syntax. < 1283355062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww syntax < 1283355062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283355068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Definable syntax. < 1283355074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1283355141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads factor-linux-x86-64-2010-08-29-14-56.tar.gz
< 1283355160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my patches almost sort-of made it into Factor! < 1283355166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1283355170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It made it in, just with a few changes < 1283355192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're on *nix, when you divide by zero you get a proper error message, not a vague "system error" type one. < 1283355195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as other such errors. < 1283355209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vague system error + meaningless number) < 1283355220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when, exactly, did you start learning programming? < 1283355221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I wrote some errno -> error string code and replaced the error handler with that. < 1283355230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was about a year ago. < 1283355258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's hard to answer. Well, I fumbled with PHP at 8; fumbled is the right world, it was all cargo cult and misconceptions and no understanding. < 1283355260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Factor's unit test stuff, I think < 1283355261 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283355283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By about 10 I was starting to have a better understanding of stuff; I still did PHP, but it was pretty well thought-out PHP. < 1283355303 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283355304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I picked up Javascript, SQL, etc. in the interim of all this.) < 1283355325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Age 11 I think I picked up Ruby and after a while this sort of banged into my head about how I need to organise code. This is 2007. < 1283355364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then by 12 I somehow covered the basics of tons of stuff including Lisp etc; I think I first touched Haskell when I was 13. < 1283355373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And, uh, it's pretty much been gradual improvement since then. < 1283355376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a boring history. < 1283355391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it was more gradual than "I started learning programming when I was N." < 1283355412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, I was copying and modifying BASIC examples so they broke into -- I think a BBC Micro or something -- when I was really little.) < 1283355434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have done something like that if I wasn't under the constant impression that you need to pay money < 1283355447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read about VB, Perl, and a bunch of other languages < 1283355465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrote some VB at summer camp, I think < 1283355469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, proprietary software has made sure the programming child is more-or-less stillborn. < 1283355500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9th grade or so, started with Python, mostly because it was free (Didn't get started with Java, although I read about it first) < 1283355559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, when was I experimenting with Magsbot < 1283355567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be sooner than Python < 1283355593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magsbot 2003 or so. 9th grade 2003 or so < 1283355611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHen using Magsbot, I somehow guessed that it used "" to escape quotes < 1283355622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe '', don't remember which is its string syntax) < 1283355740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 9th grade, age-wise? < 1283355753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly US system. < 1283355829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003 - 1989 = 2004 - 1990 = 14 < 1283355886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, 2003. < 1283355930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I assume Factor's [ ] doesn't stay in the dictionary the way Forth's :noname ; does < 1283355937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Everyone else is at a ridiculous disadvantage to me, since I've had a computer since I was 3. So don't feel bad :-P < 1283356045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a proper closure. < 1283356052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forth's isn't, having not really a true concept of a closure.) < 1283356060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try not to compare it too much to Forth. < 1283356063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's concatenative more than stack-based. < 1283356064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher-level. < 1283356066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know Joy? < 1283356068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Cat? < 1283356070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1283356079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of those until I started reading about Forth < 1283356090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Joy is the "purest" concatenative language: like a stack calculus, < 1283356093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*calculus. < 1283356107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We say that everything is a function, and usually in a language if you have something like "x y", it means x(y) < 1283356107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Forth impure? >.> < 1283356116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We say instead that "x y" = y . x < 1283356120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function composition < 1283356129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we say that the whole program is applied to an empty stack < 1283356142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup is the function dup({x,...}) = {x,x,...} < 1283356148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop({x,...}) = {...} < 1283356153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap({x,y,...}) = {y,x,...} < 1283356155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1283356165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we also have [...], which pushes the list of words inside on to the stack. < 1283356173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might like this more than Haskell < 1283356177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have i, which takes a [...] off the top of the stack and puts all the words inside it after the i. < 1283356178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems easier < 1283356179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1283356185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b c] i => a b c < 1283356194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So as you can see this is utterly pure and functional. < 1283356198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not imperative. < 1283356205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor has more in common with it than it does Forth. < 1283356209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably not, but I'm thinking in stacky mode < 1283356211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So think functionally. < 1283356222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think functionally. < 1283356226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also stacky. < 1283356229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., concatenatively. < 1283356305 0 :GuestA05364!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1283356318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bibbles at checking stack effect
< 1283356344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB. I may or may not remain connected < 1283356344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a good or bad way? < 1283356358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a, how does it work way < 1283356421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1283356427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each word inside's stack effect is known. < 1283356430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just cascade them. < 1283356446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what the fuck is bibbling. I assume some Creatures thing. < 1283356584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happens with ifs? < 1283356610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess they're checked, but how do you define your own thing that needs to work with stack checking? < 1283356611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both branches have to have the same stack effect, I think. < 1283356619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It Just Works. < 1283356623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry about it. < 1283356639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not something you define. < 1283356647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor a heuristic, for that matter.) < 1283356819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, every word has to have a consistent stack effect. < 1283356828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is if? < 1283356831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax? < 1283356833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word. < 1283356885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: \ if see < 1283356897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait < 1283356898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1283356900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't downloaded Factor yet < 1283356901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: \ if help < 1283356941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme find the manual page for yu. < 1283356944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1283356975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-if,kernel.html < 1283356986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes the definition. < 1283356994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This can be conjured up with \ if help in the graphical listener.) < 1283357042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, anything you write yourself will be composed of smaller primitives that already have a known stack effect, which Factor will check you adhere to. < 1283357052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any conditionals or whatever you write will already work with them. < 1283357064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to declare anything, since /every other word's stack effect is known/. < 1283357093 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The only word with an unknown stack effect is call: http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-call,kernel.html. < 1283357108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, < 1283357113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Words which call an input parameter must be declared inline so that a caller which passes in a literal quotation can have a static stack effect." < 1283357128 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's call( stack -- effect ) < 1283357138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which does what you think it does. < 1283357144 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E3FC3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Requires a ( stack -- effect ) quotation on the top of the stack, and calls it.) < 1283357157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So call is generally not used; it's pretty evil. < 1283357170 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283357175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But used by functions to implement safe ones, such as if, so it's there.) < 1283357210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh yeah, and Factor compiles to very compact, efficient native code (no C compiler or whatever). < 1283357210 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi alise < 1283357229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty competitive with SBCL, which is pretty much the gold standard for language implementation, bowing only to O'Caml and C. < 1283357232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hi. < 1283357248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, if call can only be used with statically defined ... thingies, what's the point? < 1283357257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, [ ] thingies < 1283357278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for example, if. < 1283357295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two quotations ("[ ] thingies") are always static. < 1283357299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the boolean to branch on is not. < 1283357301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is ? call < 1283357307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Y true ? => X < 1283357311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Y false ? => Y < 1283357318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as you can see, "? call" is if. < 1283357336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet you can't pass a dynamically-generated quotation to if. Well, you can, but only if it's known at compile time. < 1283357341 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283357353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Composition, etc.) < 1283357360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What I'm saying is, don't worry about it. < 1283357361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always works. < 1283357369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a heuristic or a hack. < 1283357377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bubut... how can I store a quotation, then? < 1283357380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For later use? < 1283357381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283357383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can < 1283357398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, clearly you don't know Factor enough to understand half of the edge-cases I'm explaining. < 1283357403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Forget everything I said. < 1283357409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new answer is: < 1283357434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it always works. No, it's not a heuristic. No, it's not hacky. It's like Haskell's type checking, only it never needs help from you. < 1283357450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She made her own slides < 1283357464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1283357474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl professor < 1283357484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she just emphasized that it's "Perl", not "PERL" < 1283357488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning Perl and Factor at the same time. Great idea... XD < 1283357505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning Factor for fun. I'm learning Perl because I have to at this school < 1283357533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't blame me when you write [ + ] $foo = ; < 1283357537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A school that makes you learn Perl. That's... very interesting. < 1283357550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: At least the prof seems sane enough to teach best practices. < 1283357557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which make Perl into a good enough language. < 1283357609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it just seems like such a... non-academic choice, somehow. Java, C++, Python would all beat it out in most heads that I've seen. < 1283357624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For different, maybe bad, reasons. < 1283357627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a non-academic course < 1283357629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1283357631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1283357635 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, still. < 1283357641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is what you should be learning! < 1283357641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer Programming and Information Systems" < 1283357647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a non-academic university, from the sounds of it >____> < 1283357648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the school of business < 1283357658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't "unacademic" a word? < 1283357662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, of course it is. < 1283357664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unacademic. < 1283357665 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1283357675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how vague ICT-style names get each passing year. < 1283357678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information Systems! < 1283357682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information Nodes! < 1283357685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information... Technology! < 1283357692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information ENTITIES! < 1283357694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENTITY ENTITIES! < 1283357698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS! < 1283357715 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, Information Systems and Information Technology are pretty old and standard at this point. < 1283357730 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And very, very sad concepts. < 1283357765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what is this SBCL? I should know this < 1283357774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Steel Bank Common Lisp. < 1283357780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly? Heh. < 1283357783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMUCL's developed descendant. < 1283357799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Carnegie Mellon University Common Lisp. < 1283357803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure out the pun and get a cookie. < 1283357816 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compiled Lisp" always makes me blink. < 1283357825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how Common Lisp is done. < 1283357834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, figure out the pun in SBCL's name using CMUCL's.) < 1283357834 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, working on it. Still too early to take apart deep, profound puns, you know. < 1283357843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I could just tell you. < 1283357848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1283357866 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could jkust read it inadvertently on the wp page, which I just did. Sorry. < 1283357869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that, yes. < 1283357928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But yeah, O'Caml and SBCL are very near the top of the fastest functional languages. (Only beaten by weird things like ATS, probably.) < 1283357935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SBCL is competitive with gcc in many cases. < 1283357943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Caml regularly gets gcc performance on well-written code. < 1283357953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is competitive with SBCL. So pretty fast, and all that. < 1283357971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Interesting. My perception was that ghc was one of the top runners. That's like 8 years out of date, maybe. < 1283357994 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gcc-level, obviously, and good for a lazy language, but still. < 1283358015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ghc is quite a few places down. But it's good if you either write ridiculously strict, imperative code /or/ write code that makes its stream fusion and other advanced features happy. < 1283358040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run-of-the-mill, not-cleverly-written (not just for performance, in general) Haskell code isn't very fast with GHC. (And it takes up terabytes of memory.) < 1283358061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive for Haskell, though. :P < 1283358191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table == dictionary, right? < 1283358199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She asked if anyone worked with hash tables before.. < 1283358209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash table implements dictionary < 1283358215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cpressey said < 1283358219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only python calls them dictionaries :P < 1283358233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# dictionaries are different? < 1283358235 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionary == map < 1283358237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, C#. < 1283358241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a fuck about C#. < 1283358261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start writing C# just to piss alise off. < 1283358266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Pet peeve: "associative array". It might not be an array, moron! < 1283358279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at generality, Wikipedia. < 1283358284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, I never liked that term either. < 1283358742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor does have an FFI, right? < 1283358765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: An excellent one. < 1283358776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The entire UI is written in OpenGL, in Factor. < 1283358788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Cocoa, Win32 and X11 backends; again in Factor. < 1283358811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it even comes with a full libc binding in the stdlib. < 1283358817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1283358825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you haven't seen the UI yet, have you? < 1283358832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1283358845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is possibly the most well-documented and comprehensive community-developed language there is. < 1283358857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation viewer is wonderful, the debugger is great, etc. < 1283358879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about on-the-fly modification of code? < 1283358884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283358889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can click on a word in the listener (REPL) to look at its documentation, which is always useful. (It'll also tell you where a word is, if you use it and haven't imported the right module; it will import it for you if you want). < 1283358893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what do you mean? < 1283358897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like modifying the standard library> < 1283358901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*library? < 1283358902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Smalltalk style, or Erlang style < 1283358902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ? < 1283358910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yep: \ sqrt edit < 1283358918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opens in your defined editor (one of many). < 1283358929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best one to use is Emacs with the comprehensive Factor mode whose name I forget. < 1283358934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It integrates tightly with the listener. < 1283358947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'm cancelling the Smalltalk bindings project < 1283358955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1283358968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Now Factor is his girlfriend. < 1283358985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, FUEL is the name of the Emacs thing. < 1283358986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh dear. Falcon will become very, very jealous. < 1283358998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nonono, Forth! Or was it Smalltalk? < 1283359017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Smalltalk isn't the basis of a long-term relationship. LOLOLOLOL SEE WUT I DID THAR < 1283359078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets up FUEL
< 1283359079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She had trouble figuring out why '\\n' and '\n' were giving her the same thing < 1283359103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She expected '\\n' to give her a newline < 1283359107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1283359111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe she is retarded, then. < 1283359118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The prof? < 1283359122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes < 1283359179 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283359207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW, I do think you have to re-load a module before your saved changes take effect. < 1283359211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reasonable, though. < 1283359224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the project still be running while it's reloaded? < 1283359240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh... not really. I assume by project you mean "some word". < 1283359285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms at Perl
< 1283359329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what/ < 1283359331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what? < 1283359341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole automatic conversion of strings to numbers etc < 1283359652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The f parsing word adds the f object to the parse tree, and is also the class whose sole instance is the f object. The f object is the singleton false value, the only object that is not true. The f object is not equal to the f class word, which can be pushed on the stack using word wrapper syntax:]] < 1283359654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283359724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me that `perl' is a REPL and that I just haven't figured out how to use it < 1283359797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figurd it out < 1283359800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite a REPL < 1283359804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still easier to use < 1283359822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she just said that she won't teach it to the students right now because she doesn't have anything prepared < 1283359925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can't tell you that. < 1283359950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you've figured it out, please let me know. < 1283359974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I remember perl reading from standard in is simply perl reading from stdin. Though I may be wrong. < 1283359985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, >.> < 1283359985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perl -de0 < 1283359994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets you the debugger < 1283359997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is almost a REPL < 1283360005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it's easier to just write a script, though < 1283360007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there ARE perl repls < 1283360010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just `perl' is also easy < 1283360017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perhaps annoying < 1283360017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Devel::REPL is the best < 1283360019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cpan probably has a few REPLs < 1283360022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to get that you need to figure out cpan < 1283360025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cpan is LIQUID PAIN < 1283360031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpanplus is better, so you'd want that < 1283360034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with < 1283360035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl < 1283360036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you'd have to install cpanplus < 1283360039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Some perl code < 1283360040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never thought of using the debugger as a repl.
< 1283360042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D < 1283360047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on distro. Gentoo had a tool to generate ebuilds for cpan packages iirc < 1283360048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ais523 told me that trick < 1283360051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which worked quite well < 1283360052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Windows. < 1283360055 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use -e "print 56 * 71;" on the command line < 1283360056 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oops < 1283360063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that will indeed be painful < 1283360475 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1283360552 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in case anyone cares, I have essentially finished Eightebed. Might want to tweak the doc is all, then need to find a time to publish it. Also, I built qemu last night and ran BefOS under it. Also rebuilt BefOS from source (it has a recursive makefile, but in my defense, it (a) is broken and (b) includes the comment "This is so wrong." at the top.) < 1283360589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, eightebed? < 1283360648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, recursive as in calling itself by invoking make? < 1283360659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283360667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you know what a fucking recursive makefile is. < 1283360686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes and that tends to be invoke make in a subdir by calling make in a rule < 1283360699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clap* *clap* *clap* < 1283360700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my question still stands < 1283360703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you didn't need to ask anything, really. < 1283360726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because recursive make in the other sense sounds quite fun < 1283360891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive make has some perfectly legal uses. For example /usr/src/Makefile on FreeBSD is recursive as far as I remember. Or are you suggesting a single makefile for kernel, libc, userspace programs and so on should feel free to implement that. Would likely be quite a pain < 1283360906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can rebuild only a subtree. That still has to work < 1283360940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include libc/Makefile < 1283360943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was hard < 1283360948 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would rebuilding a subtree not work with a monolithic Makefile? < 1283360966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Vorpal recursively calls the interpreter rather than using "require" statements, too. < 1283360967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well, it could, would have to be run from the top dir though < 1283360974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make usr/bin/cat < 1283360976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't. < 1283360985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc/Makefile could have all the stuff needed to build the libc. < 1283360990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The makefile in . would include it. < 1283360992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes in the sense that cd libc; make < 1283360997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope < 1283360999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd libc; make would work < 1283361000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not easily work < 1283361001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so would < 1283361004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make libc/... < 1283361005 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could be done < 1283361007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course it would < 1283361012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write the libc makefile in the libc directory < 1283361014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and include it one above < 1283361023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to handle some directory differences, but nothing unsolvable < 1283361024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made a makefile that calls itself, once, fwiw, but it was limited to one level of recursion that way. < 1283361025 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as far as I can tell that need some path mangling < 1283361037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makefiles can have a target to make themselves < 1283361045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when this happens, make automatically calls it again with the new makefile < 1283361052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is for managing dependencies automatically; I have used it) < 1283361054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1283361067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile: $(SRCS) \ ... run makedep or gcc -Msomething or whatever ... < 1283361078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and append to make.deps) < 1283361079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then underneath < 1283361081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include make.deps < 1283361092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll always generate new dependencies and include the updated file if you change the sources < 1283361108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but that is not the same as calling itself in the sense of: foo:\n\tmake bar < 1283361125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's metanough for me. < 1283361132 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283361137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and a lot more boring < 1283361142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, about as boring as kexec ;P < 1283361190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say a Makefile rule is a lot more interesting than ZOMG CALLING THE PROGRAM MAKE INSIDE A MAKEFILE. < 1283361253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evolving Intelligent Systems. Methodology and Applications"; as far as course names go, that's a bit on the pretentious side. (It's just about on-line learning in different machine-learning contexts.) < 1283361292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on how you use it. I mean, C++ templates in general are not that interesting. But when used to do advanced compile time computation it is a bit more interesting, in an esoteric way < 1283361310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure you could use make calling itself for some interesting hacks < 1283361321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Programming GOD. An introductory AI course. < 1283361357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "To further confuse matters, Murray also has a tendency to rename his theory frequently; it’s variously referred to as the Concept-Fiber Theory of Mind, the Fiber-Concept Theory of Mind, the AI4U Theory of Mind, the Mentifex Theory of Mind, the Standard Model of the Mind, Project Mentifex, the First Detailed Theory of Mind, and the Grand Unified Theory of Mind." < 1283361383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Grand Unified Theory of Mind, especially.) < 1283361406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the mentifex guy? < 1283361416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's from the Mentifex FAQ. < 1283361422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Mentifex. < 1283361471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1283361500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was yet another comp.lang.forth (or Usenet in general) newcomer who was all "ooh, he's been working on this for twenty years all by himself; this is the sort of project that generates Real Science(tm), versus the corrupt capitalistic committee-driven universities, pshaw". < 1283361506 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283361522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth does attract the crazies a bit. < 1283361626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: MindForth Programming Journal (MFPJ) 2010 August 25: http://p.zem.fi/mpfj-2010-aug-25 -- see, he's almost completely "solved AI". < 1283361658 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone like .nsf? < 1283361673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was crossposted to comp.lang.forth,comp.ai.nat-lang,comp.robotics.misc,alt.consumers.free-stuff -- especially the last group seems to be incredibly relevant. < 1283361690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GOD BES SPIRIT < 1283361696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: what's .nsf again? < 1283361714 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nes song < 1283361729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283361758 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the songs from famicompo 7 are out < 1283361943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, http://zem.fi/~fis/xcf.png -- I just copy-pasted those commands from that paste here at home, and that happened. < 1283361982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait. < 1283361986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the dvorak keyboard? < 1283361987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1283361989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is! < 1283362002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad I can't use that thing at all. < 1283362018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.colorforth.com/keys.html < 1283362021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys there are the two halves < 1283362028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left alt switches keypads < 1283362031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"e " starts the editor < 1283362032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE FUN < 1283362068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen that, but it's still oh-so-confusing! I'm going to try having fun at some other time. < 1283362116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You basically have to be Chuck Moore. < 1283362125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the site and http://colorforthray.info/ may help. MAY. < 1283362128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to be registering for a WAVE UNIVERSITY account, anyway; they're going to put all the IT systems of the three separate universities into a blender, and then making us eat the sludge that comes out of it. < 1283362169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you guys form some committee to create a modern university in mexico < 1283362171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could call it < 1283362175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexican Wave University < 1283362184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in cooperation with yours < 1283362236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best wavelet ever: the Mexican hat wavelet. < 1283362341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ooh! Or if you get bought out by Google: < 1283362344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Wave University < 1283362842 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-18.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283362886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, my new Wave account lets me download the ISO of COMSOL Multiphysics 4.0a. (It's some sort of finite-element solver/simulator we have a campus license for.) < 1283363078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorForth: Gives Chuck Moore the programmer productivity of twenty Chuck Moores! < 1283363495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so hm. This wave university thingy seems rather messy. < 1283364033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl kernel upgrade < 1283364279 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283364282 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283364409 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1283364821 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283364845 0 :madbr2!~madbrain@poste128-168.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365105 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283365112 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365130 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@poste128-168.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283365133 0 :madbr2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283365498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, BefOS is rubbish. But it *was* pretty cool running it on actual bare metal (a disused 486 desktop back in the day) and having to wait for the actual, physical floppy to seek, when paging up and down. Putative todo list: Clean up the code base, Switch to unreal mode on boot, Allow editing memory pages, Implement an actual VM for it (likely something rather befungeoid, but not Befunge), Rebrand the thing because < 1283365529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because what? < 1283365534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your line was cut short < 1283365544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Rebrand the thing because I don't like the name BefOS. < 1283365548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1283365557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was cut after "because" < 1283365574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, strange irc client that doesn't automatically split overly long lines < 1283365781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: does it actually have a UI? < 1283365833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you define UI here? < 1283365840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1283365847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey knows. < 1283366218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it has a user interface. After a fashion. < 1283366290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers a makefile based init script system
< 1283366295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking "Rewrite UI in the befungeoid VM" as one of the todo items, but didn't write it, because I'm not sure. Rewriting some of the system in the interpreted language, yes. < 1283366327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might actually work rather well < 1283366457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also need to document the key mappings, rather badly (I swear they used to be, I must have lost that page.) < 1283366500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hm, how large is the funge space of this thing? < 1283366542 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a set of 80x25 pages. Each of those is 2K. There are currently as many as will fit on a floppy. < 1283366590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I think that with 64-bit mode you do some cleaver stuff with the virtual pages so you can have a flat funge-space, not with 64-bit cells of course. And then allocate pages as needed < 1283366598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do fully 32 bit cells either < 1283366684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because long mode is SUPER FUN. < 1283366691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1) 48 bits actually usable with a hole in "the middle", and sign extending the addresses in the upper half 2) you need a few pages for interpreter code and meta data < 1283366703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is completely lost
< 1283366784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what I'm suggesting that you with 16-bit cells could do something like BASE+y*SOMETHING+x and then use that address in your virtual address space as the funge space position < 1283366841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you need BASE because you want a few pages somewhere to keep track of what physical memory is mapped where and also the interpreter code < 1283366850 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The VM language is only going to superficially resemble Befunge, and even then, the Befunge it resembles is Befunge-93. < 1283366852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could put that at the top < 1283366872 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So - 16 bits is plenty to describe a position in an 80x25 page < 1283366874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, right, I was just discussing a rather hackish use of paging < 1283366884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to abuse that to create a sparse array < 1283366900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparse by page faulting if the page isn't used already < 1283366920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No page faults. Not protected mode. Of course, you're free to write your own OS. < 1283366926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't want BASE+y*SOMETHING+x, horrible for cache if traveling much in y < 1283366960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe hilberts space filling curve, not sure how fast that is to compute < 1283366967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interleaving x and y bits < 1283366985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I KNOW! I was just discussing an interesting hack I thought of < 1283366999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, which would be possible only on OS level < 1283367026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, stop being so negative < 1283367066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chill, dude. < 1283367077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, how many 80x25 pages btw? < 1283367101 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: It's a set of 80x25 pages. Each of those is 2K. There are currently as many as will fit on a floppy. < 1283367111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, and I don't know how many fits on a floppy < 1283367121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, because you didn't say which type of floppy < 1283367152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I have at least 3 types in this room. Only two of which I can read < 1283367169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283367171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I can't read is a *floppy* floppy. < 1283367199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're not funny, interesting or clever by peddling such needless pedantry at that in an attempt to keep the conversation going. < 1283367207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since he said 486, you know perfectly well which kind he meant. < 1283367212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are several floppy variants that work in normal "PC" floppy drives < 1283367216 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Um. Are you needing to know the exact number of pages the current version has available? < 1283367237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, see, I thought you would be satisfied with an impression, an order of magnitude, you know? < 1283367240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And you know damn well that if he meant anything other than 1.44 MB, he'd have said so, it being an ABNORMAL case. < 1283367240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no, just roughly would be enough < 1283367252 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then: a floppy-full. < 1283367255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have more of those old single sided ones than I have 1.44 MB < 1283367266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so no I didn't know that < 1283367279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, you do, probably because your brain optimises for being as much of an edge-case as you can so you have something to talk about. < 1283367282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else does. < 1283367335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, personal insults. How fun < 1283367357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really want to take the discussion that low? < 1283367369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not a personal insult. Well, it was, but it was not ad hominem. < 1283367371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was relevant. < 1283367406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wound say it was highly inaccurate though. Relevant... maybe to some degree. Could have been more irrelevant at least. < 1283367422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people are seriously the worst getting-along people I know of; sometimes I like to consider the absurdity of a Vorpal-alise collaborative project, the existence of which would cause the world to collapse. < 1283367433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/You people/You two/ < 1283367443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1283367486 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.177.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283367490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: To be fair, he /is/ the stupidest person /I/ know of. (Now watch as he copies my sentence structure!) < 1283367497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not particularly fair to stupid people. < 1283367503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1283367504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1283367514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that was ad hominem though < 1283367526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Incorrect again, my friend; *that* was not an argument. :) < 1283367554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes it was... < 1283367569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't; I merely said it, not submitted it as an argument for some debate. < 1283367586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I have a new pano I took at university yesterday coming up in a bit. < 1283367619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mentioned that there was something you didn't like about Factor? < 1283367622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mobile camera, but turned out rather well if you don't zoom in too much. Matches up well in all but one place < 1283367652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, I just never got in to the language itself. Maybe I will now. < 1283367660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slava Pestov is an awesome guy; #concatenative is a really nice channel. < 1283367669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's technically for non-Factor stuff too, but it's the Factor channel.) < 1283367686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good project. < 1283367710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters something incomprehensible about every image based language thinking it owns .image
< 1283367713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Speaking of photography, look what we found from the local IKEA; a TRÅDIG-model cat: http://zem.fi/~fis/ikea-cat.jpg < 1283367722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: file extensions aren't owned, Windowser. < 1283367737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D < 1283367814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been doing some interior design improvements to the box (read: eating it) after the picture was taken, though. < 1283367840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you buy it? < 1283367850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! Factor perfectly integrated with Emacs. < 1283367899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION right-clicks Edit on a random word; the file opens in Emacs, scrolled to the definition
< 1283367900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha < 1283367903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have infinite power < 1283367924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Speaking of photography, look what we found from the local IKEA; a TRÅDIG-model cat: http://zem.fi/~fis/ikea-cat.jpg <-- what a fitting name. Well "hårig" would have been even better < 1283367927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close enough < 1283367959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://omploader.org/vNWVyMA < 1283367997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen a similar-looking building before. < 1283368012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but then it was like 2 meter of snow outside < 1283368019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the pano didn't match up well at all < 1283368057 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I tried a vertical pano < 1283368067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is near impossible without some mount < 1283368172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there are actually 2 seams < 1283368232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw we will be using RCX in a lab next week. < 1283368250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, communication protocol lab < 1283368260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rather strange choice of unit for it < 1283368266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of play-university is that place?-) < 1283368272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess it is a nice and simple protocol to start with < 1283368293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey the RCX was developed at MIT so... < 1283368306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at MIT together with lego to be exact < 1283368345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "telecommunications" "labwork" (if you can call it that) I did just used a network of six virtual machines or so. But I guess this is a bit lower-level communications-protocol and less networking-infrastructure thing? < 1283368371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw, the factor wiki and pastebin are coded in factor < 1283368371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway the IR protocol is probably good for the first lab in the network and communication course. There were TCP/IP labs and so on later on < 1283368377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and included with the distribution < 1283368382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is more later on < 1283368387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whatever happened to Pliant
< 1283368407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, including a non-static website with software seems nonsensical. I assume you mean a URL < 1283368409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I guess since it is a introductory course, they don't want to start off with a too complex protocol < 1283368415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The code ..................... < 1283368420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1283368420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1283368422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1283368423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1283368425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1283368457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We had a "Unix programming" special course; I found something like 16 more-or-less-serious (some *very* minor, admittedly) errors/unclarities in the course slides. < 1283368459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably uninstall WIn32Forth at some point < 1283368468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Pliant is still around at http://www.pliantcode.com/ and http://fullpliant.org/doc/ < 1283368491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what the heck is it? < 1283368494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1283368497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh yeah, this first lab will also serve as a way to learn *nix iirc. For those that don't know it < 1283368497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i care about it? < 1283368510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In computer software programming languages history, Pliant is the first attempt to connect C and LISP branches. < 1283368510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was written by Hubert Tonneau, first published in 1999, and is released under GNU General Public License version 2.]] < 1283368511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1283368515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like nobody tried that before 1999 < 1283368543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Wikipedia. Thy NPOV shines upon us! < 1283368550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so what is it? < 1283368553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i know what it is < 1283368554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but context? < 1283368583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I dunno, something you said about Factor reminded me of it < 1283368613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at there being no 3xx level chem courses
< 1283368618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language where you can change the syntax and build your own language! Whee! Yeah, never been done before. < 1283368623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, one issue seems to be they are using non-custom firmware on those. Rather annoying. The default lego firmware is horribly bad. And that is "so bad it is bad" bad. < 1283368624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Several were pretty clear errors, like claiming that to delete a file, you need write permission for the file itself. And that you need to have a "extern char **environ;" declaration before you can use getenv/putenv. < 1283368631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Heh. < 1283368633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pliant does that? < 1283368677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was this someplace where you could correct whoever was teaching it? < 1283368694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's what I understood its schtick to be, yes. < 1283368697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a major fan of correcting professors
< 1283368699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pliant is a great language of choice for any of the following example applications: relational database engine, 3D game engine, GMail like web-app, peer-to-peer sharing network, kernel drivers, online web store." < 1283368702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, I think my corrections were credited on the next lecture, even. < 1283368703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's probably rather rude < 1283368705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They probably hate your guts. < 1283368707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awesome < 1283368728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a great language of choice. < 1283368730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you correct purposeful simplifications for the purpose of teaching, that is. < 1283368741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you gazed upon the delight that is Plain English? < 1283368752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, I might have done that once or twice >.> < 1283368766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's obnoxious. < 1283368767 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one with ~1000 words? < 1283368770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm to delete a file you need write permission to the containing directory. Hm can you delete a file you can write to but where you can't write to the containing directory? < 1283368778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: nonono < 1283368781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: it's a programming language < 1283368799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. Well, unless you consider truncating it to zero bytes, which is sort-of "deleting" it. But not really. < 1283368800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in the most warped form of english you can imagine, with a hilarious manual that calls Windows variously the kludge, the whore, etc. < 1283368800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No nested ifs iirc < 1283368807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1283368808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler is written in itself, which is beautifully horrific < 1283368814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's meant to cost like $100 < 1283368820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could get it for free by looking at the js code < 1283368831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it had cartoon "testimonials" from claude monet, bill gates, k&r, ... < 1283368859 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Holy wow. No, I had not. < 1283368872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.osmosian.com/ they removed their fun cartoon site and replaced it with this < 1283368877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download the sample application to look at the source < 1283368884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cartoon testimonial for Monet. That's...oh damn. < 1283368890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/for/from/ < 1283368893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it was because of their sample application < 1283368899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses dots to reproduce google image search results < 1283368901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah can hook you up with the actual compiler etc., which is pure fun to use < 1283368909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the editor will ONLY start full screen using an awful comic font < 1283368915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually started on a bf interpreter < 1283368917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was too difficult < 1283368923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fight with the syntax < 1283368934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Reading the compiler, though, wow. < 1283368937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may arguably have done that "correct purposeful simplifications" thing back when I got into that argument about *all* floating-point formats being binary (while TI's calculator-floats are BCD); but they were so forcefully insisting on everything everywhere being implemented with base-two fractions and powers of two. < 1283368940 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What do I need to run it? Windows XP or Vista. Yuk." < 1283368942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It has raw hex for all the compiled instructions. < 1283368949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And the rest is written in that mechanical English style. < 1283368955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing and all. < 1283368955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait a second. That isn't true in general < 1283368965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So really, I am very impressed that they could program something that big and ... well, actually-working in it. < 1283368969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the sticky bit messes things up < 1283368973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like LoseThos. < 1283368976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to account for that possibility too < 1283369021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://www.osmosian.com/manifesto.pdf this thing has the font used in the editor < 1283369025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I did mention that in the correction. But even with the sticky bit set, the original claim -- write permissions on the file -- is still irrelevant. < 1283369043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether he should do the Your First Program tutorial despite having read it but not acted
< 1283369046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe to get a feel for it < 1283369047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program runs on the Wintel Kluge, was written entirely in Plain English, and < 1283369053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-compiles itself in less than three seconds. That's right. Three seconds. < 1283369055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: factor's? < 1283369060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably. < 1283369130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries out the deploy tool
< 1283369131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh yeah, and the whole UI system is based on 1/ns of an inch -- I think n=16 < 1283369188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the result of sticky bit on files seems to vary a lot (not implemented is most common though) < 1283369196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bit#Usage < 1283369218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I. Am. Enthralled. < 1283369237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You NEED to see the compiler. They call it "the noodle", IIRC. < 1283369244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally that filename. No extension, "the " and all. < 1283369265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "they"? < 1283369275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are there really multiple persons behind it? < 1283369282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the heck should I know? < 1283369286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283369287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They call themselves The Osmosian Order. < 1283369289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1283369290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a single guy with a split personality thing. < 1283369292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, singular they. < 1283369298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly valid. < 1283369309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer spivak but sure... < 1283369328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to believe that it's twenty or so absolutely crazy, unwashed, unshaven people living in one messy house. < 1283369340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers is a group of like-minded developers and educators dedicated to the rescue of computer science from the pervasive fog of confusion engulfing it today." < 1283369346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the world's most crazy-programming-language-oriented group marriage. < 1283369355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "group" word does sort of suggest >1, while not being absolutely confirmsome. < 1283369360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, he could be lying. < 1283369369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or self-aggrandising. < 1283369382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(She, maybe?) < 1283369388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Naw.) < 1283369421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, osmosian.com is registered by Dan Rzeppa, 610 Scholl Rd, Mansfield, Ohio 44907, United States. < 1283369462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The setuid bit was invented by Dennis Ritchie. His employer, AT&T, applied for a patent in 1972; the patent was granted in 1979 as patent number US patent 4135240 "Protection of data file contents". The patent was later placed in the public domain." < 1283369474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange to think that setuid was patented... < 1283369567 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osmosian? yeah that's a classic no? < 1283369626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Uh... I went to a nearby place with Google streetview (Scholl Road itself hasn't been driven on), and got this: http://zem.fi/~fis/scholl.jpg -- I think I'm forced to conclude that The Osmosian Order is a group of extraterrestials. < 1283369643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That makes sense. < 1283369663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The van and its driver became a being of pure energy when it went any further. < 1283369675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can see, you can never reach Scholl Road in this reality. < 1283369678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: Uh... I went to a nearby place with Google streetview (Scholl Road itself hasn't been driven on), and got this: http://zem.fi/~fis/scholl.jpg -- I think I'm forced to conclude that The Osmosian Order is a group of extraterrestials. <-- what the fuck? < 1283369679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*So you see, < 1283369690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osmosian - Alien Species Wiki - Aliens, UFOs, Space aliens < 1283369690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osmosians are an aliens that look like humans, The name 'Osmosian' is a play on the word "osmosis", the name of the physical process by which a solvent, ... < 1283369691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Google < 1283369696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there you go then. < 1283369700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Osmosian < 1283369701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... see. < 1283369701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's settled. < 1283369753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use Emacs < 1283369757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL is kickass < 1283369783 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL? < 1283369783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really like emacs when I'm on a terminal < 1283369790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Factor thingy for Emacs < 1283369812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, run emacs -nw < 1283369812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1283369826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O I gave up on the deploy Tetris thing < 1283369829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUEL is the thing that turns Factor and Emacs into Smalltalk. < 1283369831 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--no-window-system, -nw do not communicate with X, ignoring $DISPLAY < 1283369831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just now attempted to finish < 1283369834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I deleted stuff < 1283369834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ^ < 1283369838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, thus, terminal < 1283369843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are totally misunderstanding him < 1283369846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly purposefully. < 1283369854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot see past the pervasive fog of confusion that engulfs him.
< 1283369859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? He seemed to ask for "not X mode" < 1283369863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to me < 1283369891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Huh, Vorpal's message got marked as being sent by you. < 1283369896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* cpressey cannot see past the pervasive fog of confusion that engulfs him. < 1283369919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he means that when using a graphical environment rather than a command-based one, he does not enjoy using Emacs. < 1283369921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, i didn't say that.... < 1283369924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you like Smalltalk, yes? < 1283369924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stop trolling < 1283369929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes... < 1283369938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Factor + Emacs/FUEL = Smalltalk. srsly < 1283369957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right. So running it in a terminal inside a GUI environment is not enough? < 1283369998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: please find the nearest dictionary and look up "context", "environment" < 1283370036 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, he said none of those words < 1283370040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I only really like emacs when I'm on a terminal" < 1283370058 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This compiler, where is it? < 1283370060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unlike you i can read words and interpret them as their meanings, rather than relying on an ultra-literal legalistic view of the world < 1283370075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you gotta pay for it. apparently if you email them they'll give it to you. try that. < 1283370081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah has it < 1283370088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eww < 1283370101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that statement is ambiguous the way "terminal" is commonly used these days. I do not assume that everyone uses "terminal emulator" when they mean that < 1283370103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah, maybe just ask Slereah for it < 1283370105 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is generally not true < 1283370113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah Slereah Slereah < 1283370119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fine. < 1283370125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he will appear < 1283370339 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283370353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, you're not Slereah! < 1283370361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not < 1283370375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we summoned you inadvertently < 1283370376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Crossed wire in the summoning subsystem, I guess. < 1283370377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoo < 1283370383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hello < 1283370428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION edits the edit word, finds himself in a world populated by newspaper editors who can only say "edit"
< 1283370434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1283370556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in love with the one line unit test stuff < 1283370833 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I love those hats of theirs. Well, visors really. They're cool. < 1283370938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1283370970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wat < 1283371147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I guess I'm thinking of the guys who run the printing presses. < 1283371197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geez, here I thought this was iconic, but I can't find a single image on google of one of these dudes. < 1283371205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They wear suspenders, too, I swear! < 1283371688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283372152 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283372286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, whaaat? < 1283372313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspenders are rare nowdays though < 1283372340 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw some old guy at university passing by in a corridor today, had suspenders. Noticed it due to being so rare. < 1283372419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that is en_GB:braces it seems < 1283372422 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283372434 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54972D62.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283372918 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283373108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283373153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choochter, new here? < 1283373252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283373442 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-70.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1283374039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both words work in British English < 1283374331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe not < 1283374336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1283374336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suspenders" means something else over here < 1283374488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are you talking about? < 1283374507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Vorpal was saying around 40 minutes ago < 1283374712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, why does git not have a command to reset a file in the working tree to match what it is at HEAD? < 1283374746 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283374865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, "git checkout"; that was rather inconsistent with the rest of git... < 1283374900 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What does "suspenders" bring to mind in UK English? < 1283374903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious. < 1283374928 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"braces" would be things you wear on your teeth to straighten them in NA English... < 1283374949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they're an item of clothing that prevents long socks falling down < 1283374959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "git checkout" thing is mentioned everywhere, though. And I'm not sure how inconsistent it is; it checks out things from the repository into the working tree. < 1283374973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah yes. I've seen those, was not aware they had a name. < 1283375041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the fact that it also does branch-switching is a bit overloady. < 1283375198 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-35-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283375234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283375332 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1283375423 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1283376281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1283376542 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283377085 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283377089 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a question < 1283377097 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are php related irc channels so fucking useless < 1283377213 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because php is so fucking easy to understand < 1283377686 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-40-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283377757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that people on the Infinite Featureless Plane of Death walk _fast_
< 1283377775 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283377852 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1283377853 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1283378170 0 :falsealarm!c0760b70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.118.11.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283378187 0 :falsealarm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1283378203 0 :falsealarm!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1283378268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1283378324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very self referential, should fit right in < 1283378479 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or does Bochs suck now? < 1283378493 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anticipating alise response: cpressey: Bochs has always sucked.) < 1283378515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Well... it's always been glacially slow. < 1283378516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, I can't even get it to boot from boot floppy images now. < 1283378533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you did something rong. < 1283378539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not using the debugger just go QEMU. < 1283378568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to make things wright, then < 1283378571 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe. Bochs won't even start a display on my Ubuntu laptop; I'm using QEMU there. QEMU on Windows looks like hell, though. < 1283378648 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283378939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur augur augur < 1283378951 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise alise alise < 1283379202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the BIOS ROM image file that QEMU loads is... hardcoded? Beh < 1283379218 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no. You can give it a dir name it seems. < 1283379232 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Worked! < 1283379366 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283379494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey cpressey cpressey < 1283379537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover < 1283379627 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1283379651 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@132.203.26.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1283379729 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-80.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1283379929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the USSR's nuclear strategy against the UK
< 1283380068 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380070 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Edinburgh was completely screwed. < 1283380237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283380278 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-40-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380288 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283380306 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1283380339 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are at least 16 assorted ground- and airbursts lined up for it, inexplicably. < 1283380375 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, London only has about 2 more. < 1283380406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1283380428 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1283380443 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite having 10 times the population. < 1283380445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I would conclude from that, that Edinburgh is where the UK keeps most of *its* nukes. < 1283380456 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, *definitely* not. < 1283380474 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them would be in Rosyth and other military bases. < 1283380478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't say it was a conclusion that lined up with reality! < 1283380497 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it baffles me just as much. < 1283380521 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you wanted to decapitate Scotland, it might be helpful, but that's basically the only good reason. < 1283380557 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not to kill civilians, since Edinburgh's population isn't even half a million. < 1283380689 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a friend of mine says that it's probably due to its terrain not being very conducive to killing people. < 1283380717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1283380757 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Edinburgh has loads and loads of hills. < 1283380821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Damn hills! Our infantry will never be able to get over them. Better nuke that area instead!" ? < 1283380939 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the point. < 1283380960 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hills stop radiation and shockwaves, so it wouldn't be completely levelled. < 1283381147 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1283381237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ImageMagick certainly is suitable for complex editing, I have used ImageMagick for these things. < 1283381245 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they lined up lots and lots of nukes, to ensure that everyone would die. < 1283381279 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While larger cities such as London are on pretty flat ground. < 1283381372 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283381376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283381407 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1283381450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need a graphical user interface, I have used Microsoft Paint and used the "clipboard:" command in ImageMagick to deal with this. This does not work in UNIX systems, though. So in UNIX systems, what I could do is invent variant programs "imx" (Image eXchange) (normal mode), "imxs" (scripting mode", and "imxg" (scripting mode with graphical user interface). < 1283381487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The GUI can use a view area, script area, and with three mouse buttons and modifier keys, you can do a lot of these operations, the function keys F1 F2 F3 and so on can also be used to select different mouse modes) < 1283381497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1283381536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* zzo38 (~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com) has joined #esoteric < 1283381537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And ImageMagick certainly is suitable for complex editing, I have used ImageMagick for these things. < 1283381539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what things, exactly? < 1283381542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you failed to specify < 1283381568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Any complex things! < 1283381579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of things you can do with it! < 1283381588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have even used ImageMagick for audio manipulation! < 1283381700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc has a stack for each register, sort of like the STASH and RETRIEVE commands in INTERCAL...... < 1283382047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have to know. How can ImageMagick be used to manipulate audio?? < 1283382063 0 :olsner!~sal@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1283382084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Convert audio data to image data -> apply blur filter -> convert back < 1283382112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh. < 1283382117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that would... manipulate it. < 1283382243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tell 'im, zzo38! < 1283382388 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes you are right, that is one way. < 1283382409 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since ImageMagick does not support audio formats directly, you would need SoX or something else to convert the formats < 1283382425 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SoX already has many effects, but not everything < 1283382483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever write ImX (Image eXchange), then I will add in support for audio formats as well as the picture formats, and also add in "Block JPEG" format, which prevents decompressing/compressing the lossy part of a JPEG. < 1283382512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as add in some effects that are useful for audio. The DPI of the picture can be used as the sample rate for audio. < 1283382534 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1283382551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DPI of the picture can be used as the sample rate for audio." < 1283382551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1283382556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1283382564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs
< 1283382572 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one inch per second? < 1283382580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what she said. < 1283382627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I guess so, that can work. < 1283382660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes a bug in Factor
< 1283382662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::fuckyeah: < 1283382726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a bug in the Brainfuck implementation.) < 1283382959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen a 2600 FAQ that says that shell scripts with SUID can be security hole if you rename it (or make a link to it), called "-i". Can you fix this by changing the shebang like to "#!/bin/bash --" will it work? < 1283383037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1283383044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make suid shell scripts though < 1283383056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern kernels don't accept suid scripts < 1283383061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only binaries < 1283383100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the SUID just have no effects for shell scripts? Or will it expect the file to be a binary if it has SUID, and say the file is an invalid executable file? < 1283383106 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the frmer < 1283383108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*former < 1283383215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, that doesn't fix it < 1283383229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it fixes that bug, but not another security bug with suid shell scripts < 1283383265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that if you access the shellscript via a path where one of the directories in it is a symlink, then you can retarget that symlink between the check to see if the script is suid, and the shell actually reading the script < 1283383272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get the shell to run some other script suid < 1283383471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, that is another thing, I forgot < 1283383477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I know < 1283383509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the kernel just have to hold on to the realpath of the executable to avoid that hole? < 1283383542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AwesomePressions: S-Expression apart from (...) | Base-10 number n followed by n AwesomePressions, forming a list. < 1283383545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 define 2 id x x < 1283383549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as: AwfulPressions < 1283383560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variant: AwesomeBinaryPressions < 1283383561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 define 10 id x x < 1283383853 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1283383914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many ideas of things that can be added/changed in Linux, one idea is the /proc/$$/9p/ directory < 1283383971 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is Simple Executable File Format < 1283384055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is, a way to tell it to run another program with overriding some or all system calls, and possibly some other features too < 1283384077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What was the name of that amazing jump game me and oklopol got addicted to? < 1283384090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had the level 100 code for it, I believe. < 1283384575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"level 100"? < 1283384627 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing this with "100level" < 1283384655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it had 100 levels + some bonuses < 1283384667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wondering if this was some new language for writing games. < 1283384669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dot Action 2! That was it. < 1283384726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact/ < 1283384726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact2/ < 1283384733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact2_c/ ;; create your own levels! < 1283384737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1283384755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrm < 1283384758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goal is to get all the dots, cpressey. < 1283384763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to know Japanese. < 1283384767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrow keys move. Space jumps. < 1283384769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still loading the /emulator/? < 1283384770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun. < 1283384773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's not an emulator. < 1283384776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just fake emulator-text. < 1283384780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's loading all the levels. < 1283384782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh kay < 1283384796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dot Action 2 is the best < 1283384798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this will take some time < 1283384800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd load that if I were you < 1283384805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am. < 1283384820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is really slow from that site < 1283384830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ < 1283384832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way, way quicker. < 1283384840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeeeeed < 1283384841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE operates the menus. < 1283384857 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st menu item ok? < 1283384869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1283384877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be fooled by the simplistic starting levels. It becomes pure gaming itself soon enough! < 1283384904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is genuinely amazing. < 1283384924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1283384926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes... shall we say, almost impossible near the end. < 1283384981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Stage 5 is the first "haha wow" one. < 1283385017 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. Made it to stage 2. Will continue later, I'm releasing Eightebed right now. < 1283385030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has navigates bureaucracy succesfully
< 1283385031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, past stage 2. < 1283385033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICTOLY < 1283385185 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283385265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, and Enter pauses so you can quit. < 1283385277 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1283385535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do mana symbols like this: \def\R{\redmanalayer\rlap\manasymcircle\manasymred\textlayer} < 1283385597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where \redmanalayer and \textlayer are specials)