< 1282694756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hi there < 1282694893 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1282694902 0 :cih!~sebz@64.186.160.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282694914 0 :cih!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282695074 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282695310 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.78.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282695501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1282695880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282696474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1282696507 0 :malem!~malem@188-23-74-86.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282696589 0 :malem!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1282698213 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282698948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo the Chiller (L5 MfIE) became a worshipper of Sif Muna on turn 6485. (D:3) < 1282699119 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://osblog.pl/ezoteryczne-jezyki-programowania/ < 1282699133 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, some polish blogger links our wiki < 1282699183 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found this article on wykop - polish digg's counterpart < 1282699424 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1282701998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Sgeo < 1282702005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worshipper of Sif Muna < 1282704720 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282705348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282705375 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282705566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282705881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1282706553 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282706575 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282708814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282711334 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282713123 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282713133 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282719574 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282719705 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282720526 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217F3B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282720581 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282720949 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-249.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282721247 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1282721375 0 :girishr!~girishr@122.167.238.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282721384 0 :girishr!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282721391 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282721415 0 :roop!~roop@122.167.238.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282721529 0 :kilo!7aa7ee75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.167.238.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282721537 0 :roop!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282721671 0 :kilo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1282721749 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282722435 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-8-249.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282722685 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282722773 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217F3B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282723199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1282723200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1282723372 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282724812 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282724841 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282726226 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1282726325 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282729409 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282733240 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1282736765 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1282739017 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282739584 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1282740338 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282740411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's wrong with Crawl's interface, if I may ask? < 1282740433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several things < 1282740441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inconsistent behaviour on the same keys is a large one < 1282740472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what "zrH" does rather depends on what spell is in slot R, and how much MP you have < 1282740506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to whether the "rH" is interpreted as "cast spell r left", as "cast spell r, wait I don't have the MP, move left instead", or as "read scroll H" because you don't know any spells < 1282740510 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282740528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last case is not major as you probably aren't trying to cast anyway in that situation, but the first two are pretty nasty and trip me up all the time < 1282740541 0 :Zuu_!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1282740546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, low HP is not really as visible as it should be, mostly because the HP bars look much the same no matter what your health is < 1282740695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would zrH be made consistent? Taking a dummy direction? < 1282740706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, well, not just direction I guess < 1282740740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dummy aiming? < 1282740775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct solution would be a --More-- on a failure to cast a spell, that absorbs the direction key < 1282740865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or other key such as f < 1282740871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I tend to use a lot) < 1282741041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Topicality! A recent NetHack tweet by fungot: About NetHack: diamond dog is everybody's best friend. the mirror replied: "if you can't read between it. he is useful." < 1282741072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a bit hilarious: "About Penny Arcade: am i right, or am i right, or am i right, or am i right, or am i right, or am i right, or am i right, or am i right?" < 1282741117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come it has had a sequence of awesome ones. "a reanimated corpse, death is but a loin-cloth. an elf would smell its rancid stench at ten..." < 1282741143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that penny arcade one is brilliant < 1282741149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a case of there being only two options in the chain? < 1282741193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely. I should maybe make some sort of dumper script to the language model format so that I could diagnose things like that. < 1282741251 0 :Zuu_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Zuu < 1282741263 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1282741263 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1282741613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, it was that silly inverted tree I had. < 1282741703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "bar" child of the "foo" node under root contains data related to context "... bar foo _", where _ is the word it's trying to fill. Wrote it that way because I can then just descend the tree as long as there is both context remaining and child nodes to go to, then use the final node for choosing the word. < 1282742091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that was an interesting error from a "#! /usr/bin/env perl"-headered script: < 1282742092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./dump-model.pl: /usr/bin/env: bad interpreter: Text file busy < 1282742168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what errno code "Text file busy" corresponds to < 1282742172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what system are you on? VMS? < 1282742215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a vague memory of seeing that message somewhere < 1282742246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as unnerving as "printer on fire" < 1282742522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a Linux system, but I'm thinking it's related to the NFS disk system. < 1282742541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had within the same fraction of second saved the script, which might or might not be relevant. < 1282742571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ETXTBSY 26 /* Text file busy */ < 1282742597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a representative line of Perl from the script: dumptree(read_node($_->[1]), [$_->[0], @$context]) foreach sort { $a->[1] cmp $b->[1] } map { [token2text($_), $tree->{'childs'}->{$_}] } keys %{$tree->{'childs'}}; < 1282742620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it worrying that I can actually read that? < 1282742649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the plural of "child" is "children" < 1282742673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The elements of $tree are 'nexts' and 'childs'. < 1282742886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so. "am i right" is followed by a question mark with probability 0.5, and a comma with probability 0.5 also; "i right," is always followed by "or"; "right, or" is always followed by "am"; ", or am" is always followed by "i"; "or am i" is always followed by "right". So there's a 50 % chance of a loop there. < 1282742919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have luck that it went like that < 1282742977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you might investigate why the sword alone can't stop < 1282743122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the "i right?" the possible continuations are end-of-sentence (with a probability depending on already generated length), or alternatively: "a" (10.53 %), "correct" (15.79 %), or one out of {did, fuck, he's, i, i'm, it's, maybe, robots, so, that, that's, they, why, you} each with a probability of 5.26 %. < 1282743209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see about this sword, then. < 1282743259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where is fungot, btw? < 1282743313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1282743333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone for about 14.08 hours < 1282743373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sword alone" always gets "can't"; "alone can't" always gets "stop"; "can't stop" doesn't exist, so it uses "stop" as the only context; there's a lot of alternatives there, but prominent among them is the ! with about 10 %, and the comma with about 12 %. < 1282743467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stop!" has a 23 % chance of being followed by "that" (other about equally possible alternatives are "intruders", "these", "this"); "stop! that" always gets the sword. < 1282743523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a significantly smaller chance of a loop there; we must either have been very lucky, or the randomness/use-of-it could be bad. < 1282743555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1282743559 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1282743565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was repeatable, no? < 1282743589 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1282743622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by that you mean we got the "that sword alone can't stop!" loop multiple times, yes. < 1282743637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can "can't stop" not exist, when it's generated... < 1282743652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it always ends a sentence < 1282743665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just means there hasn't been enough "can't stop X" sort of snippets for it to be able to give meaningful probabilities for X. < 1282743670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it uses a shorter context there. < 1282743671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Given that, I'd suggest there's not enough randomness < 1282743675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282743723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I trained the chrono trigger model with our variable-length n-gram toolkit; my handcrafted one would use fixed context lengths everywhere. < 1282743749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1282743749 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1282743762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you know why the sword just couldn't stop the other day? < 1282743762 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i shall help also. i shall depart for good. it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1282743791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Oh no, please don't depart for good. < 1282743791 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone < 1282743795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! < 1282743801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was very lucky. < 1282743812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or synchronisticy, perhaps.) < 1282743825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the RNG screwing with you < 1282743828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a tendency to do that < 1282743930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xom? < 1282743995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definitely doesn't look like a like thing to happen with 23% probabilities :D < 1282743998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*likely < 1282744023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you referring to the rigged RNG in ##crawl which always returns "xom" if it's ever given as an option? < 1282744061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm strange really, when comparing results from bootchart on jaunty and lucid (same set of daemons except for some changes to the core set, such as readahead -> ureadahead, and that is not my choice), lucid takes about twice as long to boot < 1282744066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realize there was such a bot. I just remember seeing some mention that Xom was sometimes referred to as RNG < 1282744072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:11 instead of 33 seconds < 1282744081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Less than 23 %: it also should be only 10 % for "!" to follow "stop". So just .23*.1 for it to keep looping per round. < 1282744091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which rng? < 1282744098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !rng xom notxom < 1282744098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The RNG chooses: notxom. < 1282744131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (0.023)^14 < 1282744141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1592836324538744e-23 < 1282744158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _say_ we have statistical significance, there < 1282744195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not sure, I don't hang out in ##crawl < 1282744204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been fixed (or unfixed, depending on your point of view) by now < 1282744207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Originally I had in the file just the pure n-gram counts, and their sum: if there's "foo bar" twice and "foo bar" thrice, it would have in the "foo" node totalnext=5, bar=2, baz=3. < 1282744214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you're in the LearnDB < 1282744219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1282744235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an actual quote by me, yes < 1282744239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although much of the context is missing < 1282744264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note I said "inconsistent" at the start; the entire quote is about Crawl's interface being much worse at consistency than even NetHack's < 1282744279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the variable-length ngram models, I only get floating-point probabilities from the tool, so I put totalnext = about 134217726 in all nodes, and divide that to the alternatives using the probabilities given. < 1282744342 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282744374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone asked about preventing SQL Injection. Someone said filtering input, someone else said parameterized queries, I piped in and suggested the latter, and that the former's tricky and unreliable < 1282744388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be that the large numbers there are confusing it. I'm supposed to be generating a [0, 2^28-1] random number there, and then do that modulo totalnext, but maybe I don't. < 1282744390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1282744391 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1282744420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: always use some form of query parameterization; either parameterized queries directly, or prepared statements < 1282744442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only is this easier to get right than filtering, it also doesn't put really arbitrary restrictions on your input < 1282744465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hhheh. < 1282744481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, now that I look at the befunge, I seem to be generating a number in the [0, 2^24-1] range. < 1282744515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for a case where there's a probability of ~23 % on the first alternative, it would pick it in reality about (.23/.25) of the time. < 1282744537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..now the big question, would fixing that bug be improving fungot or destroying it... < 1282744538 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1282744615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to see me fix it with a live "^code" patch? It's anyone's guess if I manage to calculate the offset of the place to 'p' in right. :p < 1282744648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recommends a backup < 1282744658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it won't modify anything on-disk anyway. < 1282744733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1282744753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HEAD: implies you have a VCS as backup < 1282744776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's line 142, column 34, according to my editor; converted zero-based, that's line 141, column 33; and there's a load offset of (0,100) for the bot code, so I want... 'f{33}{241}p, I think. With {n} converted to an acceptable number. < 1282744810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282744840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 is b3* < 1282744900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'f3b*ff1+*1+p perhaps. < 1282744921 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282744944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to try it and accidentally disable the do-not-become-Skynet code? < 1282744949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to remember if there was something I had to remember with ^code. < 1282744984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^code 'f3b*ff1+*1+p < 1282744997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Uh... how are you feeling? Can the sword now stop? < 1282744997 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! < 1282745013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the sword takes" in that line < 1282745038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "the sword", though, not "that sword". But it's still promising. < 1282745039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not "that sword" < 1282745043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: try again < 1282745043 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1282745076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Uh... you're repeating yourself there. You already spoke about Magus being our only hope just a moment ago. < 1282745077 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in the middle ages, sir slush!... < 1282745152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like some obscure sort of insult. < 1282745160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1282745165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm still interested in that sword... < 1282745166 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss them! use the y button displays the time to drop by!? all the young must migrate to other planets...to repeat the cycle... < 1282745188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly nonsensical, but the bit at the end is scary < 1282745216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how NPC characters in games speak of "the Y button" and so; there's a trope for it and all. < 1282745263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it not entirely unlikely that the same bug that causes "that sword" to loop also causes it to be probable to start in the first place? < 1282745265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HSUP B TCELES, as GameSpite's Talking Time puts it < 1282745271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quite possibly < 1282745315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde Y buttone < 1282746527 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1282746848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1282746947 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1282746952 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric roguelike < 1282746982 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282747019 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like walking through random befunge programs or something :D < 1282747130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I have the start of an esolang text adventure lying around somewhere < 1282747138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had an INTERCAL room, and a BF room < 1282747169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a staircase based on an esolang whose name I have difficulty remembering < 1282747190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's based on commands that look like "1. Go to step 3." and "2. Swap step 4 with step 6." < 1282747401 0 :madbrain2!~madbrain@74.59.154.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282747552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone help me identify the esolang? < 1282747575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, SMETANA < 1282747583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these things just come to you after a while... < 1282748252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was it ehird that predicted that ipv6 won't ever be deployed, and instead heavy NATing will be used? < 1282748278 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what's happening? < 1282748288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not in all areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Deployment < 1282748294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see about phones and such < 1282748358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also somewhat widespread deployment in china < 1282748365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I thought that was you who predicted that, and mentioned ais523 < 1282748378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no? < 1282748382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you now mentioning someone else mentioning me? < 1282748399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. think < 1282749167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282749360 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe roguelike with elements of sokoban < 1282749367 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rube < 1282749388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang> < 1282749394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>/?/ < 1282749435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Best/worst Crawl (or other RL) death?" < 1282749451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any RL death that I have is the worst < 1282749475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, I've had some nice enough ones. < 1282749532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I ate the same trice corpse twice, once < 1282749537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus neatly defeating my AoLS < 1282749570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was attempting to note the ambiguity of "RL" < 1282749572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1282749573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/d57s7/bestworst_crawl_or_other_rl_death/ < 1282749655 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it < 1282749680 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played any rogue likes... they seem like asshole games < 1282749697 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have biiiig screen and sometimes i don't notice information about hunger < 1282749723 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i walk and walk throu a corridor *KABOOM* death by starvation, bye bye < 1282749736 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a stupid idea < 1282749742 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1282749752 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole games I say < 1282749803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you fail at pun. < 1282749832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2: they take some getting used to < 1282749838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, yeah, but it's a classhole game, to copy xkcd. < 1282749939 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, RNG death? come on < 1282749985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly there are things you can do to avoid it < 1282749996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or decide if it's a risk you're willing to take < 1282749998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain2, no, not really < 1282750011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RNG can induce death, but it's always evitable. < 1282750012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to put it another way, games where you can constantly reload to get the desired outcome, may as well not have randomness at all < 1282750031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a/always/almost always/ < 1282750036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you notice how many people complain these days? I hate that. < 1282750036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1282750041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:donald < 1282750045 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1282750050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about the stag party < 1282750123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, but you got to talk to us! < 1282750135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fear nort < 1282750137 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not* < 1282750149 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282750151 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing is taking place in my flat < 1282750182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can use my computer while friends watch the striptease < 1282750185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a stag party going on in the same flat as you and you *forgot* about it. < 1282750188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1282750199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is getting married? < 1282750244 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1282750253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: so why wouldn't you watch the striptease too? < 1282750256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's less weird. < 1282750265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he can watch it on his computer! < 1282750414 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I grew with the SNES miyamoto "not asshole" design... I think it's a winner ;) < 1282750499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should look up "stag party" < 1282750536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a party that a man and his male friends have immediately before he gets married < 1282750543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're rather infamous for a lot of things < 1282750550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the female equivalent is a "hen party" < 1282750566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite why it isn't a doe party, I shall never know. < 1282750577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed, why stag parties aren't rooster parties. < 1282750583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the male version was originally "cock party" but they changed it because it was too literal < 1282750753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to mention that. < 1282750832 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1282750840 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit worried < 1282750918 0 :yorick!yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1282752061 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282752261 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14C040.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282752773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your majesty! < 1282752816 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it´s just a nickname < 1282752832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impostor! < 1282752893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282752921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill the pretender to the true King! < 1282752926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, attack! < 1282752926 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: these unique items make us invincible! < 1282752933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DO! < 1282754480 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1282754856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1282756226 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282756277 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282756366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are insufficient graph-based esolangs... < 1282757879 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282758239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Did you see the (unimaginative) Grasp I scetched out purely because of there being an insufficient amount of graph-related langs? (I advertised it here a couple of times, but can't recall if you were here then.) < 1282758250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1282758254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just forgot it. < 1282758275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages are good for dicking about with graphs? < 1282758320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on whether you want to graphically dick around, or graph-theoretically dick around, or something else. < 1282758415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog seems vaguely appropriate, but I'm not sure why. < 1282758516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates waking up when class would start < 1282758535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that can use C-interfaced libraries is often a safe bet; there are graph-related libs, like NAUTY, the (self-styled) world's fastest isomorphism testing program. < 1282758733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has an interesting licence; "application with nontrivial military significance" is not exactly a common exception. (Also one has to wonder how much the military does graph isomorphisms...) < 1282758799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't know? You're better off that way, anyway. < 1282760017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The military have their reasons for graph isomorphisms... < 1282760065 0 :augur_!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282760075 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282760390 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6562.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282760752 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282761651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a spit-take < 1282761667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1282761720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit Scandinavia, making me bitter. < 1282761729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway has free post-secondary education. < 1282761736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DONT WE HAVE FREE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION. < 1282761758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does Scotland, at least for the Scottish, at least for the moment. < 1282761775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastards! < 1282761778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you don't need to pay tuition fees, I dunno. < 1282761782 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1282761798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or they're paid for you, do you get how vague my grasp of this is? < 1282761819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1282761863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scotland has no tuition fees < 1282761937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear USA: your college system sucks ass unless you drive a solid gold Humvee. < 1282761941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIX IT. < 1282761967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thanks for knowing more about Scotland than I do. < 1282761977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This disturbs me somewhat. < 1282762014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you Scottish? < 1282762020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282762031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not, but I hang around the political student types here who debate tuition fees) < 1282762048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, ais523 is at least in the UK (England, I think, but I could be wrong). Sooo, it's not exactly unreasonable for him to have a clue about Scotland. < 1282762051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1282762060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manchester, IIRC. < 1282762086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, England specifically < 1282762090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Manchester, though < 1282762096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /other/ second city < 1282762108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham? < 1282762133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it always about ham? < 1282762149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ham is delicious. < 1282762205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been a lot of talk about Finland starting to charge tuition fees for university students, at least for non-Finnish exchange students. As far as I know they haven't yet gotten around to. < 1282762240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the tuition situation in Scotland is. < 1282762307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1282762330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In selected English-language Master's degree programmes it will be possible for the Finnish higher education institutions to collect tuition fees starting autumn 2010, 2011 or 2012." Okay, so I guess it's not completely free in absolutely all cases. < 1282762346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though it's still only for "non-EU/EEA nationals".) < 1282762380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-EU seems to be a common thread amongst tuition fee differences in the EU < 1282762385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I expect there's some sort of enforcement < 1282762424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that out-of-EU tuition still seems cheap to Americans. < 1282762440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mostly to Chinese, actually < 1282762456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least half of the non-EU intake here, at least, seems to be Chinese students for some reason < 1282762459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the figures look like? < 1282762473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is anecdotal, I don't know the exact numbers < 1282762492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's not too surprising. I'd say about half of the non-US students are from China or India here. < 1282762495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same across multiple departments < 1282762520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also based on anecdotal experience, but there's a large component of Chinese visitors at our place too. < 1282762904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because nobody wants to live in a world without cookies" < 1282762950 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282763060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. The US Constitution is the shortest constitution of any nation. < 1282763092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, shortest constitution of any government at all. < 1282763136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably the most misunderstood. < 1282763153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK Constitution is zero-length! < 1282763166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many Americans are shocked to hear that it isn't actually formalised anywhere < 1282763187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's made out of something like four different laws, plus a few conventions that aren't legally binding but that have been followed forever < 1282763231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd even hesitate to call it a constitution at all. < 1282763249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's normally called that by people who study it < 1282763271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically what you have is "the monarchs' word is law", and a bunch of laws & traditions restricting the monarchs' word. < 1282763275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard agreement that the Lords don't vote against points in the ruling party's manifesto is completely muddled atm, though < 1282763291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that we have a coalition ruling, and it didn't have a manifesto before the election < 1282763323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK legal system is completely bonkers. < 1282763329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *works*, but oooouch. < 1282763367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a compliment, I think < 1282763714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the House of Lords befuddles me. < 1282763736 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1282763750 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1282763773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it befuddles me, too. < 1282763798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the old system, which worked fine for ages, was to stuff it full of the children of other Lords, on the basis that they were less likely to be partisan, rich enough not to be bribed easily, and sane enough to keep the Commons in check < 1282763804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people disapproved of this < 1282763833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Labour government introduced a new system a few years ago, and were caught taking bribes to make people Lords as a result < 1282763839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that system's still in place, with people being appointed < 1282763859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it'll lead to disaster yet; it hasn't done so yet but it's still rather new < 1282763957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:House_of_Lords.jpg That's... Pretty lavish. < 1282764007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty old building < 1282764021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing usd to be standard in government buildings < 1282764085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, US senate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:110th_US_Senate_class_photo.jpg Rather lavish, but seriously. *Everything is covered in gold at the House of Lords*. < 1282764124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Senate looks temporary < 1282764144 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54971D44.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282764151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been done like that since the Capitol was built. < 1282764235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Obama_Health_Care_Speech_to_Joint_Session_of_Congress.jpg This is a bit more what you'd expect, right? < 1282764259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've seen the house of reps before < 1282764267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow, that's packed < 1282764285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which chamber's procedural rules are used in a joint session? < 1282764474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they both use Robert's rules anyway? < 1282764483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that it depends on who is presiding. If it's the Speaker of the House (as in most cases), House rules. If it's the President of the Senate (for instance, when electoral votes are being counted), then Senate rules. < 1282764484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are those outdated and oldfashioned things that modern Americans ignore/ < 1282764527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe that procedural rules similar to Robert's are used, but most legislative bodies have unique demands and so unique procedures < 1282764563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's similar to Robert's rules of order in both cases. < 1282764655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Robert's Rules of Order is actually based on the rules used in the House. < 1282764685 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are weird rules in both of them, IIRC, such as the House of Representatives' use of 'tabling' an item to kill it, and the Senate's filibuster rules < 1282764758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both the Senate and the House use rules derived from "Manual of Parliamentary Practice for the Use of the Senate of the United States", by Thomas Jefferson... < 1282764811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was itself based on British parliamentary procedure. < 1282764862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the filibuster rules in the House of Lords are great, as they require you to actually talk for the entire time period < 1282764873 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1282764877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pity the Senate stopped that. < 1282764877 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an actual filibuster < 1282764880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to some crazy drunken ramblings, and also talk relays < 1282764892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying 'I don't like this bill' is not a filibuster < 1282764904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the rules about filibusters are quite strict here, but they have to be actual filibusters in addition to meeting the requirements < 1282764907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to have political ads containing Republicans reading from the phone book. < 1282764908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind-of quaint < 1282764916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether learning to ARM would be worthwhile. < 1282764941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they'd stop "filibustering" each and every act of the Senate. < 1282764991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Obama_Health_Care_Speech_to_Joint_Session_of_Congress.jpg This is a bit more what you'd expect, right? <-- still... that is some expensive interior.. Nothing compared to the other ones though < 1282765027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that wood looks like mahogany or teak or something to me. Definitely not your everyday wood anyway < 1282765037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, the House has a rather expensive interior. And expansive. < 1282765040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then you'd be properly ARMed for all kinds of situations. < 1282765049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what people actually *see* of Congress. < 1282765049 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not surprising for an institution that large an important < 1282765056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't do any 'ARM. < 1282765094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Senate has 100 people in its chamber, and a tradition of using desks. With names carved into them by each Senator... < 1282765099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that pun was oerjan worthy < 1282765200 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm this might be something for you, a few days ago I tried to stuff all 4 variants of affect/effect in a single sentence, only managed 3 though, never figured out how to stuff affect as noun into it as well. < 1282765208 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's a challenge < 1282765257 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(optional extra: make it sound natural) < 1282765305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't affect how he effects these effects! < 1282765325 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is 3 < 1282765337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, what's the 4th? < 1282765342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :affect as noun < 1282765344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1282765386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cant affect how he effects these effects on my affects! < 1282765390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or did you mean you don't know what it means as a noun? In that case: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affect?jss=0 < 1282765405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm... seems to work < 1282765482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "effects these effects" sound a bit redundant though < 1282765492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not really. < 1282765508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have different meanings. < 1282765510 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it *isn't* redundant < 1282765514 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just *sounds* redundant < 1282765580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't affect how effect these affects the affects! < 1282765596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that may actually be fairly correct English. < 1282765604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how effect" ? < 1282765631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, I can't claim it isn't correct English, however I fail at parsing it < 1282765634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't affect how these affects effect these effects. < 1282765642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1282765647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a lot more sensible < 1282765732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1282766909 0 :madbrain2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1282767208 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282767263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_! < 1282767345 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a me! < 1282768157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it‽ < 1282768781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION interrobangs Phantom_Hoover  < 1282768860 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interrobang should be the name of a gun < 1282769063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it to be true < 1282769123 0 :malorie!~bla@unaffiliated/malorie JOIN :#esoteric < 1282769169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malorie, new? < 1282769278 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah. :) < 1282769314 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently implementing a befunge-intpreter, but I'm facing some stack problems.. < 1282769314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*, Kansas (band). < 1282769319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, say hello to malorie. < 1282769319 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! < 1282769328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1282769328 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1282769333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1282769333 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1282769344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger, eh? Heheheh. < 1282769560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malorie, what kind of stack problems? < 1282769600 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm uncertain about how I should implement the pop instructions. when I abort execution when I try to pop the already empty stack some programs crash. when I just return 0 in such a case (popping the empty stack, that is) everything works fine.. < 1282769624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what the standards explicitly define. < 1282769642 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. that'd be awesome! < 1282769643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malorie: Which Befunge? < 1282769648 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 < 1282769664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either return 0 or undefined behavior. < 1282769669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 98 definitely. But that's because it defines *everything* < 1282769672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall which. < 1282769684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with return 0, though; that's what programs assume. < 1282769707 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. makes sense. < 1282769727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And according to Cat's Eye, it's 0-with-empty-stack. < 1282769879 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I must have missed that part, then ... < 1282769953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's the official spec, though. < 1282769973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is about the only esolang that actually needs one. < 1282770358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe 0-on-empty-stack is a very fundamentally Befungey feature. < 1282770412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the spec it's at the very end of the "The Stack" section.) < 1282770448 0 :ais523!5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282770512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, mr 523! < 1282770518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/m/M/ < 1282770557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1282770562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also the widespread thing that in 93, if you / by zero, the interpreter should ask the user what the result should be, instead of crashing or returning 0. (The funge-98 spec, while saying that there it produces a 0 always, says that "Befunge-93 instead is supposed to ask the user", but the asking is not in the '93 spec-doc.) < 1282770591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using that as an IO mechanism would be awesome. < 1282770620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my Befunge 93 interpreter, I didn't implement that. Because I like treating undefined behavior differently. :) < 1282770648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in pikhqcc, #pragma just drops you into NetHack? < 1282770661 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, #pragma nethack :D < 1282770669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, #pragma nethack. < 1282770680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other pragmas start a siren. < 1282770739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for #pragma gcc, which replaces the translation unit with a portion of gcc source code. < 1282770822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have #pragma nethack < 1282770831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execl("/usr/games/hack", "#pragma", 0); < 1282770831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execl("/usr/games/rogue", "#pragma", 0); < 1282770831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execl("/usr/new/emacs", "-f","hanoi","9","-kill",0); < 1282770831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execl("/usr/local/emacs“,"-f“,"hanoi“,"9“,"-kill“,0); < 1282770831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal("You are in a maze of twisty compiler features, all different"); < 1282770845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very... persistant. < 1282770891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Makes one wonder in how many places emacs is in /usr/new...) < 1282770949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I just used pastie as a verb < 1282770957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastie'd < 1282770957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss. < 1282770971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm aware of the algo < 1282770981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it later changed to NetHack over Hack? < 1282770999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be switched to Crawl < 1282771008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1282771025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it was a bit more than "autoexplore, fight monsters, hope to live, rest, repeat" < 1282771034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I preferred it when you were obsessed with NetHack. < 1282771075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been kicked or banned from ##crawl-dev at least twice, IIRC < 1282771083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for what o.O < 1282771087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(counting a kickban as 1 rather than 2) < 1282771102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: disagreeing with the Crawl devs to such an extent that whenever I go there I'm basically trolling < 1282771116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1282771126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left voluntarily, in the end, upon realising I was incapable of doing anything but trolling there < 1282771128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, over what/ < 1282771135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go back occasionally then change my mind soon after < 1282771141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the direction the game is going, mostly < 1282771149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more or less everything else too < 1282771155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrong one? < 1282771156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that in particular < 1282771161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think so < 1282771163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what direction? < 1282771172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEFT < 1282771189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's the way they're aiming for balance, I think < 1282771200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betwixt what and what? < 1282771212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which a) involves removing features quite a bit, b) involves nerfs to things that were valid tactical options, and c) doesn't actually work < 1282771225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, they're adding a lot of things just for the coolness factor < 1282771240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Coolness factor? < 1282771252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "wouldn't it be cool if...", pretty much < 1282771254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the best way to do that is The Dev Team Thinks of Everything. < 1282771261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl's the opposite < 1282771270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1282771276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best part about nethack! < 1282771277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be cool if you could have non-Euclidean dungeons? < 1282771278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like The Dev Team Yells At Everything They Didn't Think Of < 1282771283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Re change to nethack, don't know. The GNU FTP site (or at least funet's mirror) only has 1.42 (and then 2.x onwards); but there it's #if 0'd -- /* This was a fun hack, but #pragma seems to start to be useful. By failing to recognize it, we pass it through unchanged to cc1. */ -- and there it tries those four, though only if it can open /dev/tty as stdin/stdout. < 1282771286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't get them started... < 1282771295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that WOULD be cool! < 1282771301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but... < 1282771317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they've made some very unpopular decisions and not even mentioned them in changelogs < 1282771329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try going to ##crawl and asking why they dislike acid walls in Slime, or circular ranges < 1282771329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nethack could use one. :P < 1282771360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could! < 1282771996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm scared of irritating someone < 1282772030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##crawl pretty much unanimously agree that acid walls and circular ranges are bad, I think < 1282772047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're unlikely to irritate someone unless you try to argue in their favour < 1282772051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a dev happens to be looking in < 1282772072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circular ranges? < 1282772092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ranges what are circles. < 1282772156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than squares, I assume. < 1282772624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um isn't that more or less non-euclidean light? < 1282772638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ...no. < 1282772661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what is a range then < 1282772676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far you can shoot at stuff. < 1282772680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1282772728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in that case squares are the non-euclidean version, i guess < 1282772742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically) < 1282772754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in a really boring sense. < 1282772784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "non-Euclidean" I mean that you can shoot yourself in the back of the head without much trouble. < 1282772872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-orientable non-euclidean is when you shoot yourself in the back of the head, and the arrow has turned into its mirror version. < 1282772881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282772891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what NetHack needs. < 1282772911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the message when you dip a bottle into itself may need revision. < 1282772928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what message? < 1282772948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a potion bottle, not a Klein bottle!" or somesuch. < 1282772973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think you got it verbatim < 1282772977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a Klein bottle is naturally possible with this. < 1282773068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And sticking a bag in itself? < 1282773078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that say? < 1282773091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That would be an interesting topological exercise." < 1282773205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Cra.. wait, Crawl doesn't have bags, does it? < 1282773213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just drop it on the floor, ^F will find it for you < 1282773267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm we discussed this at some point earlier didn't we, and we concluded that the only topologies that could be easily made into square grids were those with euler characteristic 0 or something < 1282773319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What characteristic is a torus? < 1282773330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right one < 1282773346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, 0 is plane, torus and Klein. < 1282773349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So characteristic doesn't mean uninteresting < 1282773362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would Klein be like? < 1282773363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sphere and projective plane have other one. < 1282773386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that torus is about the _simplest_ to do as square layout without borders. i think this was for boundaryless topologies < 1282773391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, like a torus, but with one of the edges glued on backwards/ < 1282773414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be with both edges on backwards? < 1282773421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_characteristic#Examples < 1282773423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projective plane. < 1282773428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EC 1 or something. < 1282773432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't that work? < 1282773433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projective plane has 1, sphere has 2 < 1282773444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong EC, like I said. < 1282773450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, basically: < 1282773461 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, how do you do that to a torus? < 1282773492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torus is just left edge wrapping to right, and top to bottom < 1282773502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The EC of a figure is V-E+F for a planar graph. < 1282773556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the Moore neighbourhood (i.e. a square grid), for each face, there are 2 edges and 1 vertex. V-E+F=1-2+1=0 < 1282773557 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh, I actually understand that < 1282773566 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you do it backwards? < 1282773579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Klein bottle or projective plane < 1282773595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so only a surface with EC 0 can have a Moore neighbourhood on it. < 1282773597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrap say top edge to bottom _reversed_ < 1282773598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where's AnMaster? < 1282773604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Vorpal now. < 1282773607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moore neighborhood? < 1282773609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tireds < 1282773612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal = AnMaster? < 1282773616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, square grid. < 1282773617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1282773618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. < 1282773624 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "left" of top to "right" of bottom? this is awesome < 1282773625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here? < 1282773626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, chessboard. < 1282773634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ty < 1282773659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: like you make a mobius strip, except you _also_ stitch together the edges of it < 1282773673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which cannot be done in 3D physics) < 1282773712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the edge of it, there's just one < 1282773716 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it in 4D or higher dimensional physics? < 1282773722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1282773727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_polygon#Examples has the mappings for the edges for a sphere, projective plane, Klein bottle and toruss. < 1282773735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1282773759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can put the klein bottle in 4D without self-intersection < 1282773761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any Linux users here willing to help me with a C-INTERCAL related task? < 1282773768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be... < 1282773780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repo's up publically at git://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal-trial.git now < 1282773797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR's asked me to test it, but I can't because my laptop's having issues < 1282773811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd like someone else to try to check it out and build it < 1282773818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to grasp what the arrow represents < 1282773840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are at the tip of an arrow of one color, you're at the tip of the other arrow of that color < 1282773845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if something goes off the edge at an arrow, it comes out at the corresponding location on the matching arrow. < 1282773864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where is that explained? < 1282773877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it isn't. < 1282773882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1282773895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's remarkably unhelpful of Wikipedia < 1282773899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article is from a fancy topological perspective. < 1282773924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the _correct_ definition, but obscure. < 1282773955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, checked it out. < 1282773978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to build it using whatever technique you'd normally use to build arbitrary Linux programs < 1282773986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try "make distcheck" < 1282774031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I needed to chmod configure, but that's incidental. < 1282774050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make sure I mention that < 1282774093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make[1]: *** No rule to make target `src/atari.bin', needed by `atari.o'. Stop. < 1282774093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/phantomhoover/Programs/intercal-trial' < 1282774093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [all] Error 2" < 1282774168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1282774176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like there are some problems < 1282774209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the file "atari.bin" anywhere in the repo? < 1282774255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently not (I'm browsing it online) < 1282774264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is not. < 1282774296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why you would want to generate an atari.o < 1282774328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, INTERCAL has Atari connections... < 1282774343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282774375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, 'find . -iname "*atari*"' comes up with nothing. < 1282774415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, you have the code for the ET game in the same directory by accident < 1282774428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I see, he deleted it by mistake < 1282774446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's for the Atari character set < 1282774451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used by INTERCAL < 1282774453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1282774475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you're still interested in trying to help, there are copies of the .bin files in the tarball on c.intercal.org.uk < 1282774488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it build if they're restored? < 1282774503 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282774521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying... < 1282774627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've lost *all* of the bin files, by the looks of it. < 1282774672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1282774683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems ESR just deleted *.bin without checking for source vs. derived < 1282774689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they should all be there < 1282774691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1282774701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all in the ick tarball, yes. < 1282774775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it building now? < 1282774892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it looks to have worked. < 1282774905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does make distcheck complain, or give a bunch of tarballs? < 1282774945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit Japan, why why why? < 1282774957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their municipal power is 100v, 50Hz or 60Hz. < 1282774961 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282774964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*How does this make any sense*? < 1282774997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so you can play either UK or US games < 1282775010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target `doc/ick.txt', needed by `distdir'. Stop. < 1282775017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TV is all NTSC-J. < 1282775029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm < 1282775037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a makefile in doc itself? < 1282775043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a variant of NTSC with a different black level) < 1282775047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1282775061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try make doc[tabcomplete] < 1282775062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is in the ick tree, though. < 1282775086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make doc.dvi etc. < 1282775093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but not .txt? < 1282775108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1282775151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1282775162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if ick.txt is generated at all? < 1282775189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does doc/ick.txi compare to doc/ick.txt in the c.intercal.org.uk tarball? < 1282775193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's preëxistent in the ick tree. < 1282775200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, intereting < 1282775208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does doc/ick.txi compare to doc/ick.txt, then? < 1282775213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not at all in intercal-trial < 1282775222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, ESR deleted it < 1282775227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it's generated or not < 1282775232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is, why the makefile doesn't generate it < 1282775251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're completely different, FWIW < 1282775265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1282775266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I haven't done anything in the ick tree. < 1282775271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's fine < 1282775285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick.txi doesn't contain any of the sentences in ick.txt? < 1282775297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might... < 1282775314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, pastebin ick.txt (I don't have an untar here) and I'll compare it to the ick.txi in the repo < 1282775375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look to have the same content, actually. < 1282775381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about that. < 1282775386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought so < 1282775397 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1282775397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a build system bug < 1282775400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why'd ESR nuke ick.txt? < 1282775433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's trying to delete all generated files < 1282775439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I used to version them all, by mistake < 1282775447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's bizzare that the makefile doesn't have a rule to build it < 1282775454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the makefile < 1282775467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So was the Knuth thing true? < 1282775486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's in doc/Makefile < 1282775489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it was < 1282775493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth thng? < 1282775495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1282775500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what if you cd to doc and run "make ick.txt" < 1282775516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in ick or intercal-...? < 1282775523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in intercal-trial < 1282775537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it works. < 1282775561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ick.txt? < 1282775561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why that was < 1282775566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does make distcheck work now? < 1282775568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: manual < 1282775586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's making tarballs, yes. < 1282775592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what's ESR? Not the person... < 1282775609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, the person < 1282775614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the Knuth thing is that ESR said that Knuth wanted him to make a new version of intercal. < 1282775621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR and I are doing a joint project at Knuth's request < 1282775630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1282775633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3 archives ready for distribution, now. < 1282775640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is Knuth so interested? < 1282775658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can say? < 1282775658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL will be the new Smalltalk.. erm, the new Java? < 1282775663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new MMIX! < 1282775672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's just a guess; I haven't a clue behind his motivation) < 1282775705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MYSTERIOU < 1282775710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/S/ < 1282776016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what changes are being made? < 1282776034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly reconstructing the history into a sane repo < 1282776039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just merging my branch and his branch < 1282776076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would Knuth be interested in this? < 1282776116 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may find it amusing < 1282776128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you were making interesting changes, then maybe, but boring bookkeeping? < 1282776170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he just wants a new version < 1282776182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he much cares about the process used to reach one < 1282776197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he want to make the ultimate nerd joke in the numbering? < 1282776201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you recruit /other/ internet celebrities for < 1282776211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: such as version numbers going from right to left? < 1282776220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERHAPS < 1282776262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would the ultimate nerd joke be? < 1282776399 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who can tell just by looking at a number that it's base 3 < 1282776405 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that wasn't a joke < 1282776413 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure there's some humor potential there. < 1282776485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SCO < 1282776494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO? < 1282776506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the Linux suey people/ < 1282776529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1282776663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Dear God the US is cruel on its treatment of flights. < 1282776690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if you are not from a country with a visa waiver program, if you take a flight that for any reason lands in the US, you need a visa. < 1282776704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this includes fueling stops. < 1282776730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you leave the plane, you need to go through customs. < 1282776753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... How does that make any sense at all? < 1282776781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1282777061 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p54971D44.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282777081 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1282777105 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turrists < 1282777179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sitting in the plane while they put fuel in it requires a visa. < 1282777204 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the turrists are resourceful < 1282777285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not resourceful enough to go to Canada and walk across the border. < 1282777344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they also want personal info of anyone flying over the US < 1282777442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *groan* < 1282777465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: isn't that border really well guarded nowadays? < 1282777481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian airports are hilarious, they have two sections, "flights to the US" and "flights to everywhere else" < 1282777494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first has much crazier security < 1282777553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, the Canadian border is completely unguarded. < 1282777562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, strange < 1282777627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, not completely unguarded. < 1282777651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's sensors scattered on road & trails to note if some *thing* crosses. < 1282777666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's nobody checking a lot of it, for obvious reasons. < 1282777933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US-Russia border is *completely* unguarded. < 1282777942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'd be bloody insane for crossing it. < 1282777945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it entirely water? < 1282777950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ice? < 1282777958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it has been crossed, in a vehicle designed for the purpose) < 1282777975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ice. Just a very small patch of shallow water between two islands, one of which is inhabited. < 1282777991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the entire Bering Strait is very shallow) < 1282778044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diomede_Islands_Bering_Sea_Jul_2006.jpg The US-Russia border. < 1282778091 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@188-22-119-192.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282778332 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TheRobot < 1282778429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* There is absolutely no sense at all in the US-Canada border being at all guarded. < 1282778439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't it just be "Welcome to Canada"? < 1282779013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1282779160 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282779614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is easy to figure out /my/ speed, since I walk at a constant speed," Recordis said proudly. < 1282779875 0 :malorie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I understand how the engines work now. It came to me in a dream. The engines don't move the ship _at_ _all_. The ship stays where it is and the engines move the universe around it." -- Cubert Farnsworth < 1282779925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, Futurama. < 1282779962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No love for Calculus the Easy Way? < 1282780018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly, I own it but have not read it. < 1282780308 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1282780463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ys, we know what you mean," the professor said quickly, before Recordis had a chance to say that they could write the same rule for five functions added together. < 1282780467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed < 1282780473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes < 1282780539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Of course, I imagine Canada gets a lot of its immigration policy fed to it by the US, and the US's immigration policy is governed by racists and idiots. < 1282780598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as far as the border, yes < 1282780624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1282780628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our immigration approach is not a major point of US influence though < 1282780641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like "actually moving to Canada" are at least san*er* than the US. < 1282780663 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282780663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Boundary Commission is a joint organization < 1282780666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, it is actually possible to do so!)