< 1282608121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah zipping sounds suspicious, probably some questionably legal activity < 1282608194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282608210 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.78.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282608221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly < 1282608223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astronomers < 1282608257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everywhere < 1282608259 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that it's not my dad claiming it, although he did decide he'd rather be safe than sorry < 1282608272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've pretty much covered the "your dad is crazy" front < 1282608276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with glue < 1282608287 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's his AV, not him < 1282608290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: no but he _would_ choose that kind of AV, wouldn't he < 1282608301 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McAfee < 1282608306 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1282608328 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a few minutes ago, why would I remember? < 1282608450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a good time for a pun on really wanting to buy coffee, if intel hadn't run that into the ground already < 1282608457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McAfee AV is probably the worst consumer product ever released. < 1282608461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, what? < 1282608471 0 :Guest76379!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282608489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well reddit, commenting on intel buying mcafee. < 1282608493 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big Rigs... < 1282608515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how coffee tho :| < 1282608520 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caffwe coffee < 1282608524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait INTEL BOUGHT MCAFFE? < 1282608525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1282608529 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McAFFE < 1282608550 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My coffee < 1282608572 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I could take the place of the gone JokeExplainer < 1282608585 0 :yorick__!yorick@2001:470:8:257::2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282608607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, poor JokeExplainer. I knew him, barely. < 1282608703 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282608761 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282608761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/d3d8r/just_a_normal_day_for_an_intel_ceo < 1282608763 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282608772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in there somewhere, among the rest of the jokes < 1282608789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, will you watch me fail at Crawl now? < 1282608818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor solaris < 1282608819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as soon as i finish messing this up sure < 1282608834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Intel CEO: "We need antivirus, can someone buy me McAfee?" Few hours later: "Done." "Great, which version?" "Version ... ?"]] < 1282608834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1282608841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1282608846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard it at least twice already < 1282608852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, I had no idea they'd even bought McAffe until three seconds ago. < 1282608860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't knew when it was on reddit either < 1282608862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*new < 1282608890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antivirus programs are some of the worst consumer products ever released. < 1282608894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the McAffe misspelling should work so much better in german < 1282608904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does gargoyle display better than my OS ... < 1282608908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McAfee is just worse than most others. < 1282608916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nod32 is excellent on windows btw < 1282608932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pirate it, but it takes up ~0 memory, is written entirely in assembly, and is one of the most effective for detecting shit there is < 1282608940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1st or 2nd place) < 1282608965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: amen to that < 1282608998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"have to"? < 1282609022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, or pay for it, I GUESS. < 1282609026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who'd do that < 1282609056 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282609106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'm back on Crawl < 1282609114 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1282609120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: telnet address? < 1282609138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not telnet, ssh < 1282609149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crawl.akrasiac.org user joshua password joshua < 1282609157 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you use an arbitrary font in LaTeX? < 1282609164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ssh: command not found < 1282609166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: arbitrary what font? < 1282609171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: TeX has its own font system < 1282609173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text font < 1282609176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean format. < 1282609177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mindboggles at alise  < 1282609180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want OpenType fonts, you have to use XeLaTeX < 1282609181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks < 1282609184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: haven't installed it yet :) < 1282609197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so "google for a TeX version" basically. < 1282609201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there usually is one < 1282609204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ a supporting latex package < 1282609209 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, I was afraid of that < 1282609219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you /could/ use XeLaTeX... but it kinda sucks < 1282609226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or LuaTeX. < 1282609230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but ... < 1282609232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to < 1282609251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently? No good reason; it's very much a work-in-progress. < 1282609277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the future? Microtypography + OpenType. Need I say more? < 1282609294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you are impresent < 1282609299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but Lua :P < 1282609300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Sgeoster < 1282609309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah < 1282609309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I forgot that I registered Sgeo < 1282609325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm likely to die right now due to stupidity < 1282609347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They're using it well, at least. < 1282609353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo gets no presents < 1282609357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stop dying < 1282609360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I strongly suspect a Scheme would be better-suited. < 1282609391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're watching now? < 1282609395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1282609404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like nethack but boring! < 1282609409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, boring? How < 1282609413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It automates boring stuff! < 1282609416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks boring < 1282609423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No price-ID, no Elbereth-spam < 1282609426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to write NetFuck < 1282609436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Elbereth spam? but that's the whole fun thing about Elbereth < 1282609439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automated travel between levels < 1282609445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E-ElberethE-ElberethE-ElberethE-Elbereth < 1282609462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha sgeo dead < 1282609467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serves him right for betraying nethack < 1282609479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which level is that < 1282609481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 4 < 1282609496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, switching to the name Sgeo < 1282609545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: psht, it's not as good as A Dungeon < 1282609556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1282609576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demigod is a species < 1282609578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, playing again < 1282609592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A Dungeon is my now-named roguelike! < 1282609598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for alise dungeon, obvs < 1282609625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you watching? < 1282609653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1282609665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is rest until something interesting happens < 1282609671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka 100. < 1282609676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to be up at 9 :) < 1282609688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, should I start singing OpenBSD songs at you? < 1282609696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1282609713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corpses aren't food < 1282609717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they're cut < 1282609730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the cut corpses won't be eaten unless hungry < 1282609743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wasn't expecting that < 1282609750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of obvious though, really < 1282609784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corpses should be food... < 1282609841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably they're yelling at me for walking around with >100% health < 1282609887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was pathetic < 1282609917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again... < 1282610028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corpses are color-coded < 1282610035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The green means it's poisonous < 1282610049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds too easy < 1282610075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly, spoiled NetHack is easier < 1282610086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's meant to not need spoilers < 1282610086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1282610100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of things the interface does for you < 1282610110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mechanics are obvious, etc. < 1282610126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, obvious is the wrong word < 1282610491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an escape hatch in the ceiling < 1282610579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ded < 1282610644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Should I call my roguelike Squirm, or something else? :P < 1282610651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crawl, Squirm, ... < 1282610663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if it has a Crawllike UI < 1282610672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, name it something more hacky < 1282610696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee, autoexplore < 1282610709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it has an it-like UI :P < 1282610732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you watching me? < 1282610752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you're dead < 1282610755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1282610756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're not < 1282610815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid cursed weapon... < 1282610868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was a waste of a magic mapping < 1282610893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a blink < 1282610910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blink? < 1282610920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short range controlled (if by scroll) teleport < 1282610926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for emergencies < 1282610931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it called a blink? < 1282610936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1282610943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most teleports in Crawl are delayed.. < 1282610946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blink isn't < 1282611014 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1282611165 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282611228 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282611273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ??Jessica < 1282611273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jessica[1/1]: Early unique human wizard who is very easy to kill, but between haste, slow, pain, blink, and possibly a wand you might not get a chance. Either a pushover or worse than Sigmund, depending on the will of the RNG. < 1282611278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO JESSICA < 1282611292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SCARIEST OF NAMES < 1282611301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she's dead < 1282611531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check out my non-diagonal non-orthogonal aim! < 1282611623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see this? < 1282611629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means I'm going to teleport soon < 1282611631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1282611639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free < 1282611641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Check out my non-diagonal non-orthogonal aim! < 1282611642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1282611644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *non-cardinal < 1282611655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you weren't watching? < 1282611667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean how does that even work < 1282611677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1282611688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if there was an enemy nearby, it would autoaim < 1282611791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it will autoaim, watch < 1282611826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this seems unhealthy < 1282611917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm going to make autoexplore skip that area < 1282611936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zoooom < 1282611944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As soon as I figure out how < 1282611970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1282612093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENTLY, ARCHAEOLOGY < 1282612483 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1282612669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo dies < 1282612677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? < 1282612680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono < 1282612707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok though, that worm may be trouble < 1282612721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything yellow in inventory is an escape item < 1282612731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have four scrolls of teleportation < 1282612738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not immediate though, so... < 1282612760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1282612824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nono <-- double negative, so yes? < 1282612908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Check out my non-diagonal non-orthogonal aim! <-- ? < 1282613019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In NetHack, effects, including ranged attacks, can only go up, down, left, right, up-right, up-left, down-right, down-left < 1282613032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, screenwise I mean < 1282613652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I die... < 1282614015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knife moves < 1282614019 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knight < 1282614021 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1282614038 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting trying a knightspace renderer < 1282615043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, an altar < 1282615049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, altars don't do all that much < 1282615058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm no, they do < 1282615066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just, I've been told to not do anything with them yet < 1282615074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it's how you convert to a religion < 1282615078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other stuff maybe? < 1282615082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not BUC testing though < 1282615099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : altar[2/2]: Unlike other roguelikes, you won't be sacrificing much - altars are generally only used for religious conversion. You also can't use them to discover curse status, sorry. Silly Hacker. < 1282615252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : knight moves <-- right < 1282615263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it'd be interesting trying a knightspace renderer <-- hm? < 1282615291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, of course you BUC test with an altar < 1282615302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can sac a lot < 1282615316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, assuming nethack that is < 1282615357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOu know what they say about assumptions... < 1282615362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, asking rodney ?? altar < 1282615368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives way too many lines < 1282615371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to paste here < 1282615375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is retarded :p < 1282615378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you said " In NetHack, effects, including ranged attacks, can only go up, down, left, right, up-right, up-left, down-right, down-left" above < 1282615381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I assumed nethack < 1282615530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so which rougelike? < 1282615548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup < 1282615568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *roguelike < 1282615599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah < 1282615647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr < 1282615656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was wandering around without full magic again < 1282615738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ghost killed someone else < 1282615839 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i mean it'd be interesting trying to render a scene where you step by knight moves or something like that < 1282615848 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, food < 1282615890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, render, as in 3D render? < 1282615916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knight geometry < 1282616510 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1282616663 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1282616669 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps < 1282616722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to slap coppro in here so that alise has a chance to either slap coppro or do some other alise-y thing that probably amounts to the opposite of a slap < 1282616722 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282616740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1282616765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's 2:21, i have to be up at 9, unfortunately, i am practically paralysed due to being creeped out < 1282616766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1282616787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creeped out? < 1282616793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully not by what I just said :/ < 1282616794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit thread :P < 1282616798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/d4gu8/askreddit_what_are_some_unexplainable_things_you/ < 1282616817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can always sing you an OpenBSD song < 1282616822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like the OpenBSD songs < 1282616874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally cannot move < 1282616877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't bother < 1282616898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I was twenty/They said I wouldn't last/All that I believed in/Were the teachings of the past < 1282616918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I ever wanted/Was to keep the world secure/And all the criticizing/Was something I'd endure < 1282616945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skips ahead a bit < 1282616961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some say that I'm a hero/But I'm just being me/With my filter I can hide/My true identity < 1282616964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1282617020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the future/One very rich man/runs the Earth with/one multinational/owns your stuff/and owns your birth < 1282617071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way back in my time/Open source kept/everyone choosing/People knew the insides/Of devices they were using < 1282617079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're irritating < 1282617094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to sleep and I'll stop < 1282617622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not that easy when you're paralysed < 1282617638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I summon a newt to bite you? < 1282617688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1282617690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1282617703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my scam worked! < 1282617713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pals coppro < 1282617716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(opposite of slap, Sgeo) < 1282617852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1282618437 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1282618640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1282618746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1282619177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282619801 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1282619838 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1282621108 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282621969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1282623520 0 :Jubi!~Jubi@189.115.83.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282623591 0 :Jubi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1282625581 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1282625665 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282626764 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282628763 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282630101 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282630255 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282630261 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282630734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282630739 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282631496 0 :yorick__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282631497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282631497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282631497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282631497 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282631570 0 :yorick__!yorick@2001:470:8:257::2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282631570 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-203-58.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282631570 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/scshunt JOIN :#esoteric < 1282631570 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1282631570 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282633515 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282633714 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1282634705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1282635936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282635942 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282635942 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282635948 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282636799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1282636800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1282638460 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282638484 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-28-137.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1282641159 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282641215 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282641462 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282644936 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282645101 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1282645668 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1282646374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282646375 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282646375 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282646375 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1282646460 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282646460 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1282646460 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282646460 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282646585 0 :ais523!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282647185 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282647228 0 :comex_!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282647543 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1282648676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : both the C# camp and the Java camp are desperately trying to use this lawsuit to "prove" that their language is superior. < 1282648682 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282648694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if we can convert everyone to esolangs like that? < 1282649757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A peculiarity: if you /part from our official state religion, any less than 12 year old children automatically follow, which I guess makes sense; but apparently you can also forcibly dis-join such children (without even asking them) even if you're still going to stay as a member yourself. < 1282649795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any homes use this as a sanction; "you'd better behave or I'll kick you out of the church". < 1282650507 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1282650732 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282650852 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1282651223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what lawsuit? < 1282651229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle vs. Google < 1282651242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? what is it they are suing about? < 1282651263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alleged patent infringement in Android < 1282651271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders how Vorpal managed to miss this < 1282651277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been all over the tech news for about a week now < 1282651286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1282651320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw did I mention that the ceiling in an auditorium at the university I attend fell down a few days ago? I had lectures in that very room this spring. < 1282651328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you didn't < 1282651337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort-of embarassing for the ceiling manufacturer, actually < 1282651338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe you weren't in here yesterday then < 1282651343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't < 1282651353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't really want much from ceilings, but not falling is a major part of it < 1282651359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are apparently no longer in business according to the local paper < 1282651371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was renovated in 1995 < 1282651380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when the ceiling was replaced) < 1282651394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a company called ZenRobotics, a sort of a spin-off of people from this university department and others; it was called Zendroid at first, but Google was all "you can't call it that, we have this Android thing". < 1282651421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See e.g. the latest newspost at http://www.zenrobotics.com/?page=news -- they have a rather unserious way of writing "press releases", if you can call 'em that. < 1282651435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""We're not saying that Mika was key for Google's success story, and we're not alleging that Google's withdrawal from China is in any way related to this coup de grace from our side. Then again, there are many things we are not saying or alleging!", says ZenRobotics's CEO Jaakko Särelä. < 1282651442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, actually I was the Lead Developer for the Latitude China team, but I had nothing to do...", starts Mika when Head of Special Ops Mr. Peltomaa drops him handily with a swift blow to the neck. "Mika has no more comments on the matter as he's apparently unconscious", sums up Mr. Peltomaa. The press is requested to leave the ZenRobotics office, amid rumors of harsh censorship." < 1282651456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They hired a guy away from Google, which is what the newspost is about.) < 1282651480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1282651831 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1282652343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1282654122 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@188-22-112-60.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282654147 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1282654161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1282654707 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282654741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is there any esolang that specifies an upper length for valid programs? And is of trivial computational class (like HQ9+ or such) < 1282654780 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe you might know the answer to that? < 1282654815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised that you can implement some such esolangs in file(1) but it has to be even more limited than HQ9+ for that < 1282654817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of one < 1282654821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, original Malbolge, maybe < 1282654830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, flow control, too complicated < 1282654834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more a bounded-storage machine < 1282654866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be a finite, and small, number of valid programs < 1282654921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so you can compile into a lookup table? < 1282654937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or submatches < 1282654953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like h: output "Hello, ", w: output "world", u: output "user", would work with the additional clause that every instruction must only be used once in a single program < 1282654986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't need a full lookup table I think, some tricky submatches in file.magic would probably reduce the size of implementing it a bit < 1282655024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yes, more or less you need to encode it in lookup table for the code, you can use values from the file though in the output. < 1282655039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loops would be impossible unless you can look up all variants in a lookup table < 1282655139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do some pretty complicated things, according to man 5 magic. < 1282655187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the test-type "indirect": "Starting at the given offset, consult the magic database again." And you can read the "given offset" from the file. < 1282655204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282655210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could do loops then < 1282655235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder what computational class it is in then < 1282655278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some sort of offset that's updated by regex tests that might let you do conditionals. I haven't written any "code" for file, and the man page isn't horribly clear. < 1282655311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More conditionals than just the "if true, output a message; if not, then don't" sort. < 1282655319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no memory though, so definitely sub-tc < 1282655545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, there's that whole subtest hierarchy, so you can definitely do conditionals that do "indirect"-type test on different offsets depending on a main test. It's too bad there's only that one input file, and that one single offset pointer to it. < 1282655655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm "Offsets do not need to be constant, but can also be read from the file being examined." < 1282655702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you can get any constants from the file in memory, but arithmetics seems extremely limited < 1282655780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do the usual sort of arithmetics (+-*/%&|^) with one operand from the file, another a constant in the "source". < 1282655817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but I still don't think you can really compute anything < 1282655817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But about the only sort of state you have is the offset to the file being examined. < 1282655832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1282655850 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, FSA perhaps? < 1282655927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends whether you want the magic(5) contents to be a fixed thing to execute a "program" in the file it's inspecting, or whether you're willing to allow a combination of specifically crafted file *and* a magic(5) "source" to be a "file(1) program" to compute something. < 1282655993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282656013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the latter sounds really hard to classify < 1282656031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the latter case it sounds pretty tricky to do anything nontrivial. < 1282656039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1282656042 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282656163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, for example, if you make a file that has the bytes 0x00 0x01 0x02 .. 0xff, in order, then your magic(5) file can use the "current offset" value directly in the tests, since the value at the offset equals the offset. (Of course with the offset limited depending on how large a file you want.) < 1282656203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1282656288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can see how you would do HQ9+ except for Q and +... H9 hm... extremely silly language < 1282656330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with Q is that while you could do it, it would mess up the offset < 1282656341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably no longer have any clue where to continue the program < 1282656637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that. The relative-offset (&0) tests are relative to "the last up-level field", so if in a ">>&0 string Q" you detect the command, in a ">>>"-level test you could then print out the complete file, if it's possible to do so with one test. Still, I haven't completely thought this through. And even HQ9 is still pretty boring. < 1282656701 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1282656748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1282656762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you will need a indirect match to continue though, no? < 1282656868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think you just need to do something like ">&1 indirect" entry, where that's on a level where the Q execution hasn't messed up the correct value of "&n"; I think "&1 indirect" should mean "starting from the next byte, consult the database again". < 1282656896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to make it terminate; I don't know what values the tests "return" if you refer to outside the file. < 1282656969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be that the "consult the magic database again" means that on the second run, constant-offset "0" would refer to what was the parameter of indirect. It's not very well documented in this manpage. < 1282657235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to, which would make "Q" very hard to do in the simple architecture where you'd continue with ">1 indirect" after each matched HQ9 command. Because I don't know how you could get to the real beginning of the file to print it out. < 1282657311 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-204-201.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282657315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, if you just do a 0 regex .* %s, it will only print the half of the file starting from the Q. < 1282657380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZbaY < 1282657410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you just respec the Q command to be a "half-quine"; at least it's novel and new and other synonyms. < 1282657438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's some newline issues in that example, but those are minor.) < 1282657957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282657965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1282658014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it prints out ? < 1282658039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm not sure how to stick a literal newline in there, if it's possible at all. < 1282658070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could make the interpreter command a bit more complex, like appending sed 's//\n/g' or such < 1282658107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1282658277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can replace the "0 regex .* %s" with the potentially more appealing "0 string >\0 %s"; I think both have the problem that they don't match across newlines, but you can just strip those from the hq9 source. Still, the "half-quine" problem is a worse one. < 1282658375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282658509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use "indirect" to restart the processing, I'm not sure how to get around that. If you move the "starting offset" forward to use it as an IP, it doesn't seem possible to get back to earlier parts of the file; but if you do "indirect" with a start offset of 0, it is as if you'd start the whole thing from the beginning, since there's no state you could use to distinguish from where you were. < 1282658640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 99 bottles seems to break it hm < 1282658648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't add 9 in at all. < 1282658651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few lines of it work, but more and it prints it incorrectly < 1282658654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I added it < 1282658671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it has some length limits in there. < 1282658679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hq9.magic, 3: Warning: description `99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.Tak' truncated < 1282658689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1282658727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hq9.magic, 4: Warning: offset `l, 42 bottles of beer.Take one down and pass it [...] Go to the store and buy some more, 99 bottles of beer on the wall.' invalid < 1282658746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it happen if you do it with multiple messages? Something like "0 string 9" followed by ">0 default x first line of song", ">0 default x second line of song", ...? < 1282658763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("offset default x" should be a test that always matches.) < 1282658797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah could try that < 1282658872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might still truncate the full message, though. < 1282658897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to not print the default one < 1282658912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe I'm doing it wrong < 1282658922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes needs the x test < 1282658944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "default" is just the data type. < 1282659053 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282659065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the is the max length hm < 1282659075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62? < 1282659076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1282659470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently if you use an indirect offset with the indirect type -- something like ">(0.b) indirect" -- it ignores the current starting offset from the previous "indirect", and instead uses the offset read from the file directly. So if you have a 0 there, you'll get back to the real beginning of the file. But it still doesn't help, since there's no state, and when you're back at the beginning of the file, it's exactly identical as when you first ran it; so you c < 1282659470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an't go back to where you were. < 1282659483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's a bus I need to catch; away for now, back late in the evening. -> < 1282659873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282659971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you can do a relative indirect offset (I think you can), and are allowed to do a simple transformation, which unfortunately will take N*S*A of size (where N is the length of the input, S is the number of states, and A the size of the input alphabet), I think you can do a FSM. :p < 1282660055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Basically, you'd use the current offset to denote both the position in input as well as the state -- giving N*S places -- and in each place put the transition table of that state, which of course has A entries.) < 1282660166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course anything capable of comfortably building the special input file would probably be more than enough to directly do the FSM itself. But at least the magic db would be very simple, and generic. < 1282661850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1282663273 0 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1282663806 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, current hq9 file: http://sprunge.us/BNUe < 1282663819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the magic < 1282663863 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there seems to be an issue with adding a space at the start of lines < 1282663898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1282663902 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to move about < 1282664308 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, here is a new version http://sprunge.us/gXJf < 1282664314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the wrapper script < 1282665082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm it might be able to do Q < 1282665089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, by heavy preprocessing < 1282665164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically insert a the length to end of file after ever Q pointing to the end of the file (after taking these length fields into account of course), then append the original source, That way you could get the original source by using that offset < 1282665217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that ammount of pre-processing makes it "not really file(1) any longer" though < 1282665261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you could mark it with a # (you need to know when to stop reading the file anyway, so you need a marker somewhere) and then use search and skip the length value < 1282665556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282665640 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1282665705 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282666009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1282666017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to work assuming no newlines in input file < 1282666026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could of course escape those < 1282666221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:28:50 Near as I can tell, the *simplest* way to go to college in the US without being in debt forever is to get married. ← a solution appears immediately. < 1282666292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, married? how so? < 1282666305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, pikhq said it. < 1282666312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how to get married? < 1282666331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "why would getting married help avoid debt?" < 1282666331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's easy enough if you can find someone of the opposite sex who also wants into college. < 1282666390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in the logs he said it was because they calculated things based on your own income and assets rather than with those of your parents added. < 1282666428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this one works assuming no | in the input source file: http://sprunge.us/NKiR < 1282666445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1282666470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in Scotland university is actually free for Scottish students. < 1282666519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or with little to no fees. < 1282666525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Sweden it is free for students from EU (or was it from Schegen maybe?) < 1282666536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1282666538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schegen? < 1282666564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like EU + Norway, Switzerland, Listenstein and one or two other countries < 1282666596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be free for students outside EU too, but this is the last year of that. < 1282666698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah it is "Schengen" < 1282666701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed a letter there < 1282666711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area < 1282667928 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-94.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282668999 0 :leBMD!~chatzilla@174-23-6-67.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282669027 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greetings, #esoteric. < 1282669040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings, leBMD. < 1282669295 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E289E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282669335 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how about them yankees? < 1282669385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about them? < 1282669392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, graue replied to my email. < 1282669393 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1282669520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nice, was he going to enable that thing? < 1282669529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is* < 1282669532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1282669535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said he'd look into it. < 1282669555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that if he didn't respond for a month, to email him again. < 1282669563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1282669630 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here's a random poll: what languages are you guys currently doing? < 1282669658 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I say "currently doing" I mean "maybe messing around every once in a while" < 1282669674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eso or normal? < 1282669679 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eso. < 1282669693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did some stuff in Lazy K a while ago. < 1282669730 0 :zeotrope!~vib@bas3-kitchener06-1096648871.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1282669775 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1282669788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD, do you count "implementing interpreters for" as well as "programming in"? < 1282669796 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1282669797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Sgeo < 1282669837 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing Befunge, along with contemplating ways to make a Noobinary interpretor. < 1282669841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98, brainfuck, INTERCAL and a few more. Special for today is implementing HQ9+ in file(1) < 1282669889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, do tell. < 1282669889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while file(1) is in no way esoteric, this usage of it is < 1282669915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do tell what? < 1282669939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nature of your HQ9+ interpreter in file. < 1282669941 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1282669945 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217F3B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282669948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it is a joint effort with fizzie really < 1282669957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, this one works assuming no | in the input source file: http://sprunge.us/NKiR < 1282669962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah needs a wrapper script < 1282669965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise Q won't work < 1282669984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the only state you have is your current offset, and you need to read the whole file somehow for Q < 1282669993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course + is a dummy-implementation due to this < 1282670097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD, what was that about noobinary? < 1282670111 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about making an interpreter for it. < 1282670130 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be too hard. It would just need a 1D vector for the stack, and a couple other things. < 1282670136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282670150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, DMM is going on a pun craze... < 1282670151 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick fact: I'm the one who made noobinary. < 1282670166 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is probably why it's not very creative. XD < 1282670215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comp. class looks to be PDA, at best. < 1282670328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD, noobinary? < 1282670344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you know, the wiki has got a search function. < 1282670348 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's in the language list. It's made to resemble binary, but be easier to read. < 1282670355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A crappy search function, yes, but it's enough. < 1282670504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Noobinary is an esoteric language designed by user Batmanifestdestiny to resemble Binary, but be easier to learn. " <-- Binary does not seem to be another esolang hm. < 1282670520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumed he meant machine code < 1282670521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is it referring to? The number system? < 1282670544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we speak of binaries. < 1282670582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as jpeg images yes < 1282670583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1282670587 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary, other than the numbering system, is the very basic core of programming. < 1282670598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really true... < 1282670601 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I tend to say "programs" "executables" "object files" or such < 1282670636 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, considering it's the series of electrons going through the CPU, I'd say it's pretty basic. ;) < 1282670645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD, binary is just the way machine code is represented. < 1282670667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowest level of abstraction is effectively assembly. < 1282670669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe I use binaries in the sense "unknown/arbitrary digital data on a binary computer" but that is it. Oh and the erlang data type binary, which is exactly that, arbitrary byte-stream that you can interpret however you want < 1282670686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well byte stream is the most common source/destination I guess < 1282670703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a stream in the sense of an open FILE* in C < 1282670705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would define it as a file not intended to be readable with a flat text encoding. < 1282670765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm so how do you classify that uudecode *.com that consisted of only printable chars? < 1282670772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais linked to it a few years ago < 1282670792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc he (or maybe someone else, don't remember) wrote it for sending over usenet, to people lacking uudecode < 1282670797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably. < 1282670811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, by your definition it is not a binary? < 1282670817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Given that the file offset is the only thing that could even concievably be called "accumulator" there, and + increments it (as do all other commands, of course), it's a reasonable implementation. < 1282670828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1282670835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still the issue of | in the input file < 1282670847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would need a bit more complex escaping to handle it properly < 1282670895 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gosh, my cat is meowing in her sleep. < 1282670901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "include source with marker" is also a bit cheaty, but, well, understandable also. < 1282670903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD, has this conversation been illuminating? < 1282670917 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1282670933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think we more or less exhausted all possible alternatives to it < 1282671111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set an upper limit to program length, you can so something inelegant like including the H, Qa9 < 1282671116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any progress on jitfunge btw? < 1282671125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 9 handlers separately for each offset. < 1282671141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to report on that front. :/ < 1282671154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you can do JITfunge with an existing compiler with a hook stuck onto the p instruction? < 1282671167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1282671170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? < 1282671199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile it, stick the result into a buffer, call, when p is executed, recompile. < 1282671223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't that many existing befunge compilers either. < 1282671240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how would you handle ~~x then? < 1282671301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does x do < 1282671303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes an extreme example, but x and j are both problematic even without parameters taken directly from user input < 1282671313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pop dy and dx and set the delta to that < 1282671313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed j. < 1282671330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1282671336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and j pops a parameter n then jumps forward n*current_delta, n might be negative < 1282671341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed 0 < 1282671370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flick to interpretation until the delta has settled again? < 1282671380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just do B93? < 1282671384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, befunge93 you could feasibly compile all 4 cardinal directions for, but 98? no way < 1282671404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has arbitrary delta thanks to x < 1282671415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and jitfunge is 98... < 1282671425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1282671432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so 93-only is not really relevant for this discussion < 1282671495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, besides you might think implementing + as straight forward, but then you forgot that popping on empty stack pops 0. So you need to check for that < 1282671523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recompiling absolutely everything on each change doesn't sound so incredibly clever. And I'm not claiming there to be any sort of theoretical reasons why JITting befunge would be somehow incredibly difficult, just that it is not entirely trivial either. < 1282671546 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, what is that strangeness you do with mmap? IIRC recent linux introduced a guard page below the stack and above the heap. Recent = 2.6.35 < 1282671556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if this might mess up for you < 1282671562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it made lvm spit warnings < 1282671579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to reboot to 2.6.25.3 soon, it has a fix for lvm doing that < 1282671588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least if you want to (within limits) minimize the amount of needless recompilation.) < 1282671627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, I mmap in the middle of nowhere and put my own guard pages around the b98 stack, I don't see why that should be a problem. < 1282671641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't say JITing was increadibly difficult. What I suggested was that Phantom_Hoover's approach to the problem was infeasible. < 1282671656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1282671660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, JITing is _quite_ difficult at least. Even for non-befunge < 1282671674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1282671790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mmap-segfault-autocheck stack is broken anyway with the llvm codegen at the moment, since the handler needs to understand all the different operations that could try to access the stack (to fake the stack pointer as if a zero was returned without it moving), and you never quite know what the llvm code will turn into. It might need some more llvm-digging. < 1282671888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I optimize pop+push -> peek, which also complicates it a bit, since a "peek" operation on empty stack should actually do push 0. < 1282671949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that many programs probably care whether there's a "real" zero on the bottom of the stack, on top of the imaginary ones. But it certainly has an observable effect. < 1282672006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mycology cares (it checks with y) < 1282672083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology is a bit special that way. I mostly meant the huge amount of B98 applications that are used all around the globe and ha wouldn't it be nice if there actually were any? < 1282672096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides fungot, anyway. < 1282672097 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can not implement scheme using a java irc library :d) there just would be kewl.). it has awk macros, a wonderful typo, imho) < 1282672134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, correct. < 1282672134 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's very easy to get the interface of the sicp < 1282672144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1282672452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is so cool < 1282672453 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: got a microphone? i might need a bit of ratpoison advocacy slip out there. similar logic applies to physical theories: that's why you agree to these patches going into the kitchen and starts making a lot of < 1282672495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool but sometimes a bit incoherent. < 1282672510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's coherent locally < 1282672533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might be an old thing, but from #anotherchannel: http://bit.ly/9DBmOT -- (a maps.google.com link) < 1282672687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh? < 1282672699 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282672742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks as if it is achieving warp speed. < 1282672777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I get it. I think. < 1282672793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the different colours are captured sequentially? < 1282672821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the brightness slightly later, by the looks of it. < 1282672849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about brightness, but it does look like they take R, G and B pictures at different moments. < 1282672886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would think that "brightness" comes from the sum of it, though; it's not like they could physically speaking capture the chrominance and luminance information separately in any sensible way. < 1282672980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's the grey shadow after everything else. < 1282673061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that. Yes, I think they could be taking one more "monochrome" picture with no filters to get better luminance resolution, or some such thing. < 1282673097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had managed to miss the "outline" part completely somehow. < 1282674819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parts of its functionality are almost copy-pasted from CCBI, and I think AnMaster trusts CCBI a bit more than he should. In some cases, this means that CCBI bugs remain in it for some time. But that does help it in getting a full pass from Mycology." ← is this true? < 1282675099 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@93-82-33-226.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1282675186 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1282675201 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1282675382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I believe I did more or less copy parts of 3DSP at that time since I had not yet learnt matrix math. Apart from that: no, though in cases were the standard were unclear I used it as a reference implementation. < 1282675409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1282675416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so I would call it quite an exaggeration. < 1282675464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you would say that! It's just like the evolutionists! < 1282675468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, however, I did credit him where credit was due, and one of the point of open source is sharing :P < 1282675502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :points* < 1282675568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "sharing" is just another word for "stealing"! (They even begin with the same letter.) < 1282675601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omigodrobotwarsisbeingrerun < 1282675662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the I-consider-it-just-a-fake remote-controlled thing? < 1282675667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282675682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the DESTRUCTION! < 1282675685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not real "robot wars" unless autonomous, amoral killing machines are involved. < 1282675699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's do that! < 1282675781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :del morality < 1282675787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Python) < 1282675805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't they just make them autonomous? < 1282675818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make it way more interesting < 1282675839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would, but that would require decent programmers as well as mechanics. < 1282675852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it could make it way more boring, given how dull e.g. robot soccer is. < 1282675854 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is fizzie < 1282675864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, the writer of fungot? < 1282675864 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you credit me... no problem for a fnord < 1282675881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow, that's quite a thing to be known for. < 1282675882 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1282675883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, we need to make him into a fortunealike < 1282675890 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just looking at the fizzie nick < 1282675900 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can see it does not belong in here < 1282675903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an intruder < 1282675929 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should go to the city or sumptin < 1282675932 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least to the shop < 1282675963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes, I am INTRUDING. Perhaps even EXTRUDING. < 1282675981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends our autonomous killing machine to get fizzie. < 1282676006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they could self-repair, then it would become awesome^2. < 1282676291 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would, but that would require decent programmers as well as mechanics. <-- um yes? < 1282676314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the problem with that < 1282676319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It raises the bar greatly. < 1282676331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how is that a bad thing? < 1282676349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can have about one competition a year. < 1282676357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1282676408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's less to watch. It's about entertainment, after all. < 1282676430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, expand the area of coverage, then split it up in loads of sub-matches < 1282676436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they manage to do that with football after all < 1282676441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is ever 4th year iirco < 1282676442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1282676444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that OS? < 1282676470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, these things are very complex; custom stuff, etc. < 1282676494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designing strategies would be much harder than for football. < 1282676495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, football is also very complex, I never managed to understand what "offside" is. < 1282676502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, and this is just a guess, but I doubt they'd be so free about installing the kill-and-maim hardware I assume those things have (I don't really follow any of the shows) if they weren't just remote-controlled toys. < 1282676509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, true, but after that... < 1282676522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, after that I gave up on football so no clue < 1282676532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules are static, the hardware is basically the same and there's not many possible strategies. < 1282676557 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sounds like football? < 1282676565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware = the ball ? < 1282676588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a destructive arena game, you have a huge range of opponents, you have unique hardware. < 1282676595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but you could of course make rules more flexible, if you make the bot autonomous you have to change the rules anyway < 1282676608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be self-correcting, in case a wheel gets ripped off. < 1282676622 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, or use a different traction system < 1282676623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be able to adapt strategies for each opponent. < 1282676658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to take into account the state of the opponent, since they might themselves have a wheel ripped off. < 1282676659 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so it is more like judo or perhaps boxing? < 1282676666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destructive and so on < 1282676674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they are still rather easier. < 1282676689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a huge range of variables here, all of which have to be coded. < 1282676703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still watch it, even with imperfect autonomous killer machines, but I do think they get participants easier this way. < 1282676724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't just stick a supercomputer into it; your computer needs to be inside the machine and needs to be shielded. < 1282676725 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, self adapting robots do exist < 1282676736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, in experimental and fragile states. < 1282676736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so you don't have to code for absolutely everything < 1282676743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282676770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You couldn't use plastics or anything, they'd be ripped to shreds by a nice, big saw. < 1282676798 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also, modern computers are quite powerful. Even a mobile CPU < 1282676807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't exactly need 8 hours of battery life there < 1282676836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're also running a large lump of metal with drive systems and armour. < 1282676877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, hm... Why not allow the program to run from a remote system, but once the match started it is hands off? < 1282676881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could have a human "mission control" who can adapt the overall strategies on the fly. < 1282676891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that could be allowed < 1282676901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, again, suppose a tyre or something is damaged? < 1282676918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, guess why tanks do not use tyres! < 1282676931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not use a similar traction system to that < 1282676950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still vulnerable, and you miss the overall point. < 1282676959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it would however be way more cool < 1282676962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again, the entertainment value: look at this RoboCup video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICgL1OWsn58 -- I guess it could be considered interesting to look at, but exciting mainstream TV it isn't. < 1282676977 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282676977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and correcting for damaged drive isn't terribly difficult < 1282676980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. in a fight, you are likely to sustain damage that makes your old tactics ineffective. < 1282677009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so that is where mission control comes into it < 1282677017 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282677021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282677032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could actually be workable, though still difficult. < 1282677107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway you basically want armour, lots of it traction a bit inwards from the sides, low GC, some way to flip over if you end up upside down (not hard) and some weapon. < 1282677109 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1282677117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC? < 1282677123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Center of gravity? < 1282677128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage collection? < 1282677129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1282677131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1282677136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, those are basically the requirements for the existing things. < 1282677140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often called GC in aircraft context < 1282677145 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the jargon < 1282677180 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that the Concorde pumped fuel during flight to change the GC along the forward/aft axis < 1282677180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now for the software. < 1282677194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primarily to avoid the drag from trimming the normal way < 1282677220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1282677230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the normal way would be to angle the control surfaces from the "flat" position, but that induces drag) < 1282677243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and the software for that wouldn't be too complex < 1282677262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about sensors etc? < 1282677281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well true, but sensors are light compared to the rest < 1282677303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1282677327 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and power usage is also rather low compared to the movement < 1282677361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they be mounted so that they're fairly resilient? < 1282677364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → food < 1282677374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well the gyro and such definitely can < 1282677385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and camera probably could too < 1282677392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can transform into food? < 1282677404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess people are technically speaking food too. < 1282677413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just about to say that < 1282677425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1282677510 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1282677524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a small IR camera in each direction wouldn't be too hard. it would take a lot of luck for the opponent to hit a recessed square of hardened glass about 0.5x0.5 cm < 1282677534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, remember that the opponent also is AI controlled < 1282677539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually lowers the bar < 1282677582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just means that both opponents can't really fight very well, which makes for non-flashy battling. < 1282677602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, but it is a lot more interesting of course < 1282677609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting for us, maybe. :p < 1282677668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you would need gyroscope or just some simpler way to detect being upside down, such as this: < 1282677669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ < 1282677670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__/ < 1282677670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ < 1282677671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1282677682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is in the upside down position, would fall down < 1282677701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you built it the right way, being on edge is unlikely < 1282677707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't even need a gyroscope < 1282677743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do however need some odometer, but that is cheap and trivial to attach to the drive, and some position sensing of your weapon (depends on what sort of weapon) < 1282677856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm... I would suggest using some titanium alloy for the armour... Quite light, strong, and not very brittle < 1282677886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making sense of the real world even badly (well, for some values of "bad" that still let you do at least *something* sensible) is pretty nontrivial, though. I guess for a fixed-environment arena you could get something done with a drive-odometer (though wouldn't the derived position information start to drift there too?), but understanding what the opponent is doing is going to be pretty tricky. < 1282677916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282677926 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably with a metal skeleton below < 1282677953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I was getting to that < 1282677980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suggest a laser 3D scanner if that is feasible < 1282677983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's an intruder <-- that's quite something to say about the channel's top present admin... < 1282677987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, otherwise some IR camera < 1282678020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that takes care of where the opponent is < 1282678032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps also what it is doing < 1282678034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there _could_ have been a hostile takeover involved. < 1282678036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282678047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're on the same level in the food chain, aren't you? < 1282678056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but you weren't here at that moment. < 1282678076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i am? wasn't it you who made me op? < 1282678092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember doing that, but I could be wrong. < 1282678098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat? < 1282678099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, re armour etc., these details have been worked out. < 1282678101 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.13/2009073022] < 1282678106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't change for us. < 1282678110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in that case maybe it's lament who is the top present admin < 1282678124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, titanium alloys with supporting steel skeleton seems like the best bet < 1282678129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ChanServ- 2 fizzie +votsriRfA [modified ? ago] < 1282678130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ChanServ- 3 lament +votsriRfA [modified ? ago] < 1282678130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ChanServ- 5 oerjan +votsriRfA [modified 26 weeks, 3 days, 21:05:35 ago] < 1282678147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all have the same flags. (I don't know how the numbering is determined, though.) < 1282678155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say who did it, though... < 1282678157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :votsrirfa! < 1282678184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, look it up. The RC models will do it better than you can make up in an afternoon. < 1282678185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!flags < 1282678187 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1282678189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1282678198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chanserv not in here and freenode doesn't use that module anyway < 1282678199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so does that mean i could actually lift someone else up to my level as well? i thought i was some kind of under-op < 1282678201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that won't work < 1282678224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under-dog. But yes, I think that's all the flags you can have, except the "founder" flag that andreou has. < 1282678225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes you have +f < 1282678230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, /msg chanserv help flags < 1282678231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for details < 1282678241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1282678255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly on principle < 1282678263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1282678267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so, some general strategy things. < 1282678287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, titanium might be a bit expensive though < 1282678288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282678290 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282678300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... perhaps robots could broadcast some information on their position and location. < 1282678312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, just use LIDAR < 1282678314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make things a little more interesting. < 1282678319 0 :yorick__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1282678322 0 :yorick!yorick@ipv6.shellium.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1282678346 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1282678346 0 :yorick!yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1282678359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, look, making the robot ascertain complex details like direction and identity from the poor sensors you have suggested is going to be really difficult. < 1282678388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Laser gyro should take care of it better than anything else < 1282678395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for position and orientation < 1282678412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For its own position and orientation, not that of the others. < 1282678423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of course you could use 4 radio beams, one in each corner of the arena, and then just do what GPS does < 1282678425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from those < 1282678440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot simpler than the full thing a GPS does < 1282678457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but then you have to know where your opponents are. < 1282678460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to wory about terrain, elevation, multi-path (well maybe that to some degree) < 1282678462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And where they are going. < 1282678472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is where radar or lidar or similar comes into it < 1282678501 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1282678504 0 :yorick!yorick@2001:470:8:257::2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1282678532 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest86443 < 1282678546 0 :Guest86443!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1282678555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or why not a sonar? < 1282678582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a robot. I want to know where the other robots are, what direction they are pointing and how fast they are going. < 1282678600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, radar, lidar and sonar can all answer that < 1282678624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, directly for position, speed and direction by integrating over time < 1282678634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's standing still? < 1282678674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what about the flames shooting out of the ground, and holes that sometimes open there? (I looked at this first youtube-hit for robot wars -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA_z51dlPQU -- and the arena is a lot unfriendlier than your standard robot-soccer field.) < 1282678682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, then you could try to do image processing to figure out the shape. You could load 3D models of the opponents in advance < 1282678698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or why not require them to have a blue spot on the front < 1282678699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1282678713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you need visual camera, no big issue < 1282678731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I fail to see the point of those flames < 1282678753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah! Image processing objects out of grainy, noisy, messy, blurry visual images is *really* something that your average remote-controlled robot enthusiast is not going to be able to write. < 1282678771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM does image processing... < 1282678778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1282678794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well okay, so why not require it to be painted in radar absorbing paint at the front? < 1282678801 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the whole front of course < 1282678804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a small spot < 1282678804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, please watch that video. < 1282678810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's a lot more boring? < 1282678813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically what we're aiming for. < 1282678867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what I was. < 1282678870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again, personally I'd watch a lot less visually flashy autonomous-robot murder-o-death-o-matchery, but not everyone would. < 1282678871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about you. < 1282678890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we can go without flames and pits. < 1282678907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though some degree of environmental control could be interesting. < 1282679016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the sound quality is horrible < 1282679023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what they said really < 1282679026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't pick it out < 1282679029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a terrible video. < 1282679031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore it. < 1282679034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and increadibly boring < 1282679048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... you told me to watch it above < 1282679051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal, please watch that video. < 1282679059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, for context. < 1282679064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1282679086 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, extremely boring < 1282679100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so software design? < 1282679106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is the interesting part < 1282679130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they should be reviewing the code for both bots before the match! That's sure to hook in the viewers. < 1282679135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people building the hardware would need to team up with people working on software, unless they are skilled at both < 1282679161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, reviewing hm? Why? < 1282679169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's the interesting part, of course. < 1282679172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1282679204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they could publish it as bonus material on their site, and then discuss the interesting parts on the show < 1282679231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the sound level needs to go down. any sport where audience is louder than in Tennis is basically not interesting < 1282679236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this is going to be the nerdiest thing ever. < 1282679237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tennis* < 1282679243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why I hit shift there < 1282679248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nerdiest non-existent thing ever. < 1282679251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so we have a win-win situation! < 1282679262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have no AMBITION < 1282679278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and of course they could review the hardware as well as the software < 1282679284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both parts are interesting < 1282679285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I have an amb-eval here somewhere. < 1282679299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, to US. < 1282679320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But by all means, do make it happen. I'll even watch it, if it's watchable over the interwebs. < 1282679333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, who said US? I aimed for world wide coverage. Anyone who is interested, from any country can join. After all, it isn't like the olympics is US only is it? < 1282679359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that was "us" capitalised. < 1282679366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, amb-eval sounds familiar... hm? < 1282679376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme, if I'm not mistaken. < 1282679378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's what SICP calls that nondeterministic backtracking thing. < 1282679379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme macro, backtracking? < 1282679380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1282679399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be used in related non-SICP Scheme contexts too. < 1282679405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh < 1282679409 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282679414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm sure we are not alone < 1282679425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides you don't need to focus on the software in the TV show < 1282679426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems to have been "ambeval", to be more accurate. < 1282679470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282679482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this is never going to be a TV show. < 1282679486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1282679510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where's that AMBITION of yours now, huh!? < 1282679513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you could of course make each bot send out it's position if you want, that might make things a bit simpler. Especially since there seems to be more than two robots at a time < 1282679522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering duels < 1282679522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1282679542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where keeping track of one opponent with sensors wouldn't be TOO hard < 1282679543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duels would be good to start with, though. < 1282679547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, it's both: the evaluation procedure is "ambeval", but the prompts it prints out say "Amb-Eval".) < 1282679563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH with those levels of destruction, it's basically all or nothing. < 1282679600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm... that makes for fewer shows < 1282679612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1282679627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we're approaching this with selective practicality < 1282679655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple opponents changes the whole thing < 1282679663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact a robot might be better than a human at that < 1282679678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CPU has no issues with keeping tracks of many things at once < 1282679874 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-219.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282680036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this would be a very interesting exercise. < 1282680097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :track* < 1282680349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that robocup thing was a lot more interesting than the robowars thingy < 1282680364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, haven't watched the complete movie < 1282680370 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get like 2 kB/s on it < 1282680378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so still not completely downloaded < 1282680892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stop raping my childhood memories! < 1282680943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?? < 1282680953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You heard me! < 1282681041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes but I didn't understand what you meant by that < 1282681056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're MURDERING my NOSTALGIA < 1282681141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostalgia about what? < 1282681356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH < 1282681414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, robocup? < 1282681419 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was good? < 1282681424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean robowars? < 1282681434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can anyone be nostalgic about that... crap < 1282681437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOSTALGIA < 1282681441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ISN'T SANE < 1282681449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1282681456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS LIKE 5 < 1282681482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which series? < 1282681492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1282681495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem more insane towards the later ones < 1282681613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I now pinned down your age that to "was around 5 at some point between 1994 and 2004" < 1282681624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done. < 1282681631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so how old are you, that way I can tell which series it was < 1282681632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm between 20 and 10. < 1282681641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282681646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not sure if I was actually 5. < 1282681660 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1282681719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have semi-recently (note more than a couple of years ago) started showing one of those shows on some Finnish TV channel; but it might not be Robot Wars exactly, since there are some others, like BattleBots. < 1282681726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282681734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we will do it with added awesome. < 1282681752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2004 is unlikely, 10 years as minimum means 1990-2000 (excluding possible off by one errors due to later/earlier during the year than the current day and month) < 1282681779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although we'll need to prevent midgets being used instead of computers. < 1282681781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after all I'm 20, but later this year I will be 21) < 1282681827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why don't they make robots that can climb out of that pit btw? < 1282681830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not impossible < 1282681835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God only knows. < 1282681852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wondered why noöne had integrated a radio jammer. < 1282681860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, probably against the rules < 1282681880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, perhaps the same applied to the pits? < 1282681884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282681944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, more autonobot things! < 1282681953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Wars_%28TV_series%29#Arena_and_hazards falling into the Pit of Oblivion is instant disqualification. < 1282681958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no use climbing up there. < 1282681969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Besides, it sounds like a lot more added complexity for pretty little benefit.) < 1282681999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about folding out arms so that you hang above, and never fell into it < 1282682010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could climb back < 1282682060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the pit wasn't such a huge hazard. I'unno. < 1282682067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm kevlar? < 1282682088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for added armour I mean < 1282682103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does armour square with heat exchange? < 1282682122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you have a motor in there as well as the computer. < 1282682125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1282682165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well didn't we agree on putting the computer off the arena? But running an AI, with no human interaction once the battle started < 1282682178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did? < 1282682179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still probably want a low power CPU in it < 1282682185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some local processing < 1282682195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high end ARM would be perfect < 1282682204 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as used in high end phones < 1282682208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How destructive do we go? < 1282682237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, the first series was presented by Jeremy Clarkson. < 1282682242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1282682242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1282682250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1282682250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British TV personality. < 1282682254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1282682262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, depends on what armour < 1282682273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some would act as a heatsink < 1282682287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re destruction or heat? < 1282682292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re heat < 1282682314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggest a low-heat low-power CPU anyway if you do it locally, like one or more ARM < 1282682315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1282682332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, stuff like nintento DS runs on it after all. < 1282682335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, if we're just running an ARM it's not too much of an issue. < 1282682335 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that has no fan afaik < 1282682359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think a pair of high end ARMs have more than enough processing power < 1282682429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, otherwise, since this doesn't last long, just use liquid nitrogen cooling < 1282682431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re destruction, obviously not as insane as the show. < 1282682437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a one off per battle anyway < 1282682452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed, too expensive hardware at stake here < 1282682463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1282682475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flippers are all right, though. < 1282682478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1282682531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some degree of sawing? < 1282682556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, armour is pointless otherwise. < 1282682561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, further I suggest using a composite armor < 1282682567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm < 1282682575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1282682579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or hacking I guess < 1282682587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... < 1282682605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composite armour? Are we millionaires? < 1282682616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1282682623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, titanium alloys then? < 1282682636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with steel skeleton for stiffness < 1282682663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We aren't designing tanks! < 1282682666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium#Physical_properties < 1282682688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure we are, titanium is light too, so you can have more of it if there are weight limits < 1282682699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer can be encased nicely, but everything else isn't that important. < 1282682717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, actually *some* of those sensors might be a bit expensive < 1282682731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, we're discussing the general designs... < 1282682733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laser gyro and LIDAR primarily I think < 1282682755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have lots of simple switch sensors for detecting bumping into things and so on of course < 1282682899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway composite isn't that expensive. Well depends on what composite < 1282683107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so robot has sensors which feed to a lightweight processor which consults a heavyweight computer off the arena and does things accordingly? < 1282683140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes the heavywight processor (if needed, it might not be) would send commands to the robot < 1282683226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, would be free to make it at the level of "move towards that thing" or "drive on motor a", that is, you are free to put any amount of processing in the bot and any amount off it. I suggest that the CPU in the bot should not be limited in power (since other considerations will already do that) but the one off the arena should be. < 1282683240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1282683240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be so fun it someone bought a super cluster there < 1282683260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might. < 1282683277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, might run out of space < 1282683290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a supercluster, but if you still need to calculate the strategies sensibly. < 1282683342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggest simply a standard high end machine running linux off the arena. Say a dual-cpu quad-core Xeon with 8 GB RAM and a few GPGPUs attached. For each combatant < 1282683367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, now can we discuss software tactics? < 1282683371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1282683376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is quite interesting < 1282683449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, any good ideas? < 1282683474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... Obviously a schematic of the other robot will be useful. < 1282683490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to go charging onto a flipper, for instance. < 1282683520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggest a rouge 3D model of the opponent(s) of it marking the weapon such as flippers < 1282683524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing more detailed probably < 1282683529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe drive system < 1282683535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1282683555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marking vulnerable and dangerous points. < 1282683568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would have to be done by a human, of course. < 1282683574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1282683580 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282683596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we allow some form of 3D system scanners (LIDAR, Radar, sonar or such), and I suggest we do, that could be matched against the 3D model loaded in advance < 1282683626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/system scanners/scanner systems/ < 1282683633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea how I managed that typo!) < 1282683694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as I mentioned before, being able to perform primitive diagnostics on opponents would be advantageous. < 1282683720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you mean position and such? < 1282683724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more? < 1282683727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean damage. < 1282683736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was plausible. < 1282683745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well sure, that would be some interesting sensors < 1282683753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you could match against it being dented < 1282683791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if your opponent's drive system is crippled, say, you have much more space to manoeuvre yourself. < 1282683808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a human give simple hints, though. < 1282683820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well that would be reasonably easy to detect, if it doesn't move < 1282683828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1282683829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or moves slowly < 1282683840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heuristics < 1282683857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be good because that way you could try to pretend to be damaged < 1282683870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which would be quite a nice tactic < 1282683877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus the game becomes much more tactically complex. < 1282683883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fun to program. < 1282683883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of course < 1282683924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I wonder if it might be possible to build a drive system that can move in any direction < 1282683930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or nearly so < 1282683942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but it'd be vulnerable. < 1282683953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1282683966 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how it could be done basically < 1282683972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there are methods of doing it. < 1282683993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best I can think of is ability to drive the left and right side wheels or tracks independently < 1282684002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can turn on the spot < 1282684003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite easily < 1282684004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecanum_wheel is omnidirectional < 1282684020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleaver < 1282684027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err clever* < 1282684034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But easy to disable. < 1282684052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to a wheel or track, I mean. < 1282684088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1282684104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also that three-wheel design built out of what looks like the bottom bit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omni_wheel with the wheels put like /_\ ; you can drive with two of them and the "sideways" wheels will make the third one not drag horribly. < 1282684213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, but exposed wheels can be shredded easily. < 1282684214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still I think tracks and being able to turn on the spot is better < 1282684230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can put them under your body, no need to put them at the edges < 1282684247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1282684262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and why not retract them and put a cover over when getting flipped? then when you flip back reveal them again < 1282684335 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1282684377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ruber covered metal tracks are probably better though. Rubber for added traction that is < 1282684387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and metal core for making it harder to destroy < 1282684392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1282684393 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B217F3B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282684556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate to say this, but given the amount of work that would go into building a capable autonobot, you *might* have some trouble in finding people to participate in a... how should I put it, slightly hazardous thing like that? (No matter how much you limit the destructiviness, the aim -- unless you stray pretty far -- still is to break the opponent.) < 1282684590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1282684657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it go with DARPA's "Grand Challenge" series of autonomous driving things; are they still doing that stuff? I haven't heard any news lately; though I guess I should just ask Google. < 1282684736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is the FUTURE of WARFARE. < 1282684742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can ask the MILITARY! < 1282684788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in that case we want different rules < 1282684796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and composite armor < 1282684808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably having the crowd quite a long way away < 1282684816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, missiles and such < 1282684893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that at-times-a-bit-hilarious paper about how having robots shooting guns is going to be more ethically good, because they can more easily in "the heat of the battle" judge who are civilians and who they shouldn't be shooting. < 1282684927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to really suck for that 10 % that happen to be false negatives of the civilian-classifier algo, though. < 1282684939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1282684961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also giving robots weapons like that? Um, you must be insane < 1282684985 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just see future predictions by Hollywood < 1282685041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there's quite a bit of (overview-only presentation in the upcoming video link) hardware that might be useful for an autonobot in the 2007 DARPA-winning autonocar, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lULl63ERek0 < 1282685316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice but expensive < 1282685348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw in the mine in Kiruna they use autonomous trucks and such < 1282685360 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, monitored by humans and the occasional change and such < 1282685368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but day-to-day operation is autonomous < 1282685404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc they use lasers, oh and some kind of reflective things mounted on the walls at the proper height < 1282685412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can make sure it is not crashing into a wall < 1282685435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operations* < 1282685462 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and there is no GPS to help them down there < 1282685513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but on the other hand it's a lot more controlled environment than a random city. < 1282685517 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1282685530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they have been using them since way before those cars though < 1282685783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, all this robotics talk always makes me feel like I should build something; then I remember how very non-hardwarey person I am. I think I'll stick with the bits; they're a lot more malleable. < 1282685917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no great shortage of hardware people. < 1282685936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try lego, and remember to put support beams in orthogonally < 1282686021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is really just one "secret" of lego technic: two normal "beams" with two plates between is the proper distance to mount orthogonal supports on the side < 1282686032 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could draw this in ldraw if you are interested I guess < 1282686071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah lego has it: < 1282686073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cache.lego.com/2057/images/create/designschool/courses/course_1/lesson1c/und272x362brickfit.gif < 1282686088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm cache... hope that url works for you < 1282686138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1282686140 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282686154 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-73.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282686205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also reminds me of Pac-Man.) < 1282686233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not very < 1282686253 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282686266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone else seen the Lego Turing machine? < 1282686274 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1282686313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack, now I want one. < 1282686338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, link? < 1282686358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen the difference machine < 1282686361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't got one, at the moment. < 1282686366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not really a turing machine at all < 1282686368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on Youtube. < 1282686826 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1282686985 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1282687906 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1282688137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282689833 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1282690370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1282691022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, Cubestormer is impressive < 1282691733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1282692127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is in the Crawl learndb < 1282692527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh? < 1282692543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html#ais523 < 1282692554 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1282692575 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I wasn't aware of nethack's interface being really inconsistent < 1282692591 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one or two small things sure but, nothing major < 1282692606 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, is crawl's interface actually inconsistent? < 1282692617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1282692622 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1282692636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... feels nicer than NetHack's, in that it automates tedious stuff < 1282692673 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1282692690 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, such as? < 1282692703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh and: is it harder or easier than nethack? < 1282692719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exploring, knowing where you stashed your stuff, note taking, resting until healed < 1282692729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing what's safe to eat < 1282692762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interlevel travel, including avoiding areas that the user marked for exclusion < 1282692796 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, knowing where you stashed stuff is easy. First level of sokoban, icebox if possible. Until right before ascending, when I move it to level 1 if feasible. < 1282692810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the stuff I want to take with me but don't plan to carry down < 1282692828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like artifacts that I have no use for except for the score < 1282692899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price-ID is impossible < 1282692907 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's a pity. < 1282692924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I prefer avoiding price-ID in NH < 1282692930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's tedious < 1282692931 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1282692935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1282693537 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1282693763 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1282693789 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1282693906 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1282694172 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric