< 1281312019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuck" would be bleeped.
< 1281312026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... even after 8/9 pm?
< 1281312028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281312031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1281312035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT?!
< 1281312037 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they haven't got a watershed in the US IIRC
< 1281312049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... didn't that show The Wire have a fuckton of profanity?
< 1281312059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had a fuckton of bleeps.
< 1281312063 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*****ton
< 1281312070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1281312071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the smeg i know
< 1281312080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The difference being that Red Dwarf was comedy. :P
< 1281312089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So ... uh ... how do you guys even ... television ... the?
< 1281312105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most bizarre thing being that this is also done on cable TV.
< 1281312112 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall reading that it was partially due to the US having about 5 timezones, but that might be excuse-making.
< 1281312115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which has absolutely no such regulations at all.
< 1281312160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But ... why?
< 1281312197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGA had a character say "ass" in front of a toddler. That caught me offguard
< 1281312199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, imagine the oldest, most crotchety, conservative person you know.
< 1281312203 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the US is very conservative. That's what it comes down to.
< 1281312208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These people vote in droves.
< 1281312219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And complain in droves.
< 1281312219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But if there isn't a law for it for cable TV...
< 1281312242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They file complaints like crazy to the cable companies and the networks.
< 1281312252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iiiii want to cryyyy
< 1281312255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short: our old folk are fucking noisy and irritating.
< 1281312265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you guys allowed to be the biggest superpower?
< 1281312268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe China.
< 1281312274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so our television censors based on 1920s social mores.
< 1281312279 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on TV Tropes there are various references to films actively trying to avoid an NC-17 rating as if it would make it worthless, which is treated as normal.
< 1281312304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a film is rated NC-17 in the US, it basically will not be seen.
< 1281312323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have frontal nudity in a non-NC-17 movie
< 1281312325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1281312327 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile an 18 rating is commonplace in the UK.
< 1281312334 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, same with an 18.
< 1281312343 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get away with it in a PG, actually.
< 1281312348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because it's been banned, but because almost no stores will carry it and no theatres will carry it.
< 1281312352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ... *PG*.
< 1281312362 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Manon de Sources. Arty.
< 1281312365 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And French.
< 1281312372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Redundant.
< 1281312375 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1281312399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah... typical film ratings here are 12A (basically PG), 15 and 18.
< 1281312411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any "serious" film will be 15 or 18, most likely.
< 1281312412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, full frontal nudity will not make it NC-17 unless the crotchety old bastards on the rating panel feel it's too much.
< 1281312422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, U and PG are common, as well as plain 12.
< 1281312443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We have G, PG, PG-13, R, (effective censorship) NC-17
< 1281312468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're fucking crazy! I'm crying!
< 1281312473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it isn't even 17+, it's 18+.
< 1281312481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct.
< 1281312485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R and NC-17 are *both* 18+.
< 1281312486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBFC system is something like Uc, U, PG, 12A, 12, 15, 18, R18.
< 1281312487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a stupid fucking name for 18+.
< 1281312499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But a 3-year-old can watch an R movie with a parent, right?
< 1281312502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281312505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1281312506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness.
< 1281312507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is true in the UK.
< 1281312509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with NC-17, actually.
< 1281312512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1281312515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1281312516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one 17 and under admitted"
< 1281312519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem to imply not.
< 1281312521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1281312526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be 21+, to reflect the USA's fucking crazy moral system?
< 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R- Restricted (1968–present)
< 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under 17 requires accompanying by a parent or adult guardian
< 1281312530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NC-17- No One 17 and Under Admitted (1990–present)
< 1281312532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did not like being forced to see R movies
< 1281312532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 12A is the only one where an adult changes things.
< 1281312540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moot point though, because no film is released NC-17.
< 1281312542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, being forced anywhere, for that matte
< 1281312544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matter
< 1281312554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apart from porn?
< 1281312571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so it goes G, R?
< 1281312571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. Rating is not mandatory.
< 1281312573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a film *were* to be NC-17, it will instead opt for being unrated.
< 1281312581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1281312588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will stop anyone from seeing it, right?
< 1281312590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness^2.
< 1281312605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You forgot PG, PG-13.
< 1281312607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably isn't mandatory like the BBFC.
< 1281312612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> The BBFC system is something like Uc, U, PG, 12A, 12, 15, 18, R18.
< 1281312618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R18 is porn, isn't it?
< 1281312621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rating is entirely optional.
< 1281312623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we don't have PG-13 in the UK, or I've never seen it.
< 1281312625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More or less.)
< 1281312626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes.
< 1281312627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done by the MPAA.
< 1281312637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? I thought you meant the US systems.
< 1281312640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went G, R.
< 1281312647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1281312657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant the BBFC comment.
< 1281312673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, G, PG, PG-13, R.
< 1281312685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, G is the rating for something that even the most crazy "think of the children" type folk wouldn't be offended by.
< 1281312704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what Die Hard was rated as in the US
< 1281312712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG is vaguely serious stuff, but for the most part quite appropriate for children.
< 1281312713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, your system is saner in one way (that all the ratings that are actually used can be overriden by a parent)
< 1281312713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an 18 here, so...
< 1281312716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG-13 is that with cussing.
< 1281312720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did Avatar: The Last Airbender get the TV equivalent of G?
< 1281312732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TV ratings are different.
< 1281312732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is Gc really a rating in the true sense?
< 1281312742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gc is exactly the same as G, just saying "hey, children will like this".
< 1281312745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is that with more violence and room for nudity.
< 1281312749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uc? Well, not really. It was for completeness.
< 1281312753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...TV HAS RATINGS IN THE US???
< 1281312761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Entirely optional as well.
< 1281312769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it basically does here, if you count the watershed.
< 1281312770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And literally only exists as suggestions.
< 1281312776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only people who give ratings for TV in the UK are ... some TV guides.
< 1281312795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ironically, we *still* have no cursing on TV.
< 1281312798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the watershed should just be abolished and the main channels won't show hugely edgy stuff in the kinds of slots children etc. will be watching anyway.
< 1281312804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "ass" isn't a curse?
< 1281312809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... No.
< 1281312815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither is "damn" nor "hell".
< 1281312815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it matter all that much?
< 1281312827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, not really.
< 1281312830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ass will still get bleeped.
< 1281312833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...
< 1281312835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're joking.
< 1281312840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, FFS.
< 1281312850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't watched much SG-1/SGA on the TV
< 1281312856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Hulu/YouTube
< 1281312878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As will "shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker" and "tits".
< 1281312879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, question: do the non-TV releases of shows have the cursing?
< 1281312896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I, too, understand references!
< 1281312919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe you can't say "tits" on US TV... hahahahahahaha you're crazy.
< 1281312922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... I'm not even joking. I know I'm referring to a joke, but I'm not even joking.
< 1281312923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can you say "cock" but not "cocksucker"?
< 1281312940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281312940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "You are a person who sucks cocks" is okay but not "You are a cocksucker"?
< 1281312943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? that stuff gets bleeped out for you?
< 1281312950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "motherfucker" comes above "fuck" in the BBC's List Of Forbidden Words.
< 1281312954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes. The US is motherfucking insane.
< 1281312981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1281312982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, "motherfucker" comes above anything else in the List.
< 1281312994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Link me?
< 1281312997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in searching for it I found THIS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7949077.stm
< 1281313010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckety fuck.
< 1281313012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it was anecdotal and in print.
< 1281313012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckety fuck!
< 1281313013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a watershed, it's not as strong afterwards as in the UK, but we certainly can hear swear words
< 1281313015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fucky fuck fuck fuck!
< 1281313026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our game ratings are *also* absurd.
< 1281313053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In what, the Sun? :-)
< 1281313074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course not. Possibly one of the Guardian's array of supplements.
< 1281313091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Guardian/Grauniad/
< 1281313094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eC, E, E10
< 1281313102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eC, E, E10+, T, M, AO.
< 1281313115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't seem *that* absurd.
< 1281313128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Early Childhood", "Everyone", "Everyone 10+", "Teen", "Mature" (17+), "Adult Only"
< 1281313130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AO is reserved exclusively for Anarchy Online.
< 1281313133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK they just extend the film ratings.
< 1281313149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some European system.
< 1281313158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we use the European system now.
< 1281313169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I uninstalled AO recently, to make space
< 1281313176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suggested ages being: 3-10, 6+, 10+, 13+, 17+, 18+.
< 1281313181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only tried it once, remember nothing :(
< 1281313182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where be the insanity?
< 1281313193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The ratings are *also* done by old crotchety bastards.
< 1281313199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although 17+ and 18+ is ridiculously stupid.
< 1281313227 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few games have AO ratings because they're basically impossible to secure retailers for
< 1281313251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persona 3. CERO B, ESRB M.
< 1281313253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah.
< 1281313254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /me hates retailers who won't sell T or M games to people underage laiming it's the law
< 1281313256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've got to know: what kind of 18+ material exists in today's society that the average (18-n)-year-old can't stand?
< 1281313274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it really hard to believe that the average 16, 17 year old hasn't Already Seen That Shit. Probably even 15-year-old.
< 1281313285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rhetorical question, naturally.)
< 1281313292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something you guys call "appropriate for 12+" is on our highest-effective-rating.
< 1281313298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not to say they won't rate them AO - they have on occasion - but that the game manufacturers will then do everything to get them down
< 1281313299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry, that's Japan.
< 1281313305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGI, 12+
< 1281313315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same rating meaning, at least.
< 1281313331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claiming
< 1281313351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm. Well, there's probably some stuff that'd make them lose their lunch...
< 1281313361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But said stuff would do the same to the same person at 18+, so.
< 1281313371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1281313385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I always find myself orienting to a more conservative mindset in these matters? Intellectually, I agree with you all, but still, it feels.. weird, the idea of swearing not necessarily being something that needs to be shielded from kids
< 1281313390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the US have the weird habit of viewing sex as worse than violence?
< 1281313401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Outside of the US, swearing is not considered weird to expose to kids.
< 1281313404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1281313422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure nobody would object to a parent saying "Shit!" due to a minor injury.
< 1281313440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a mildly-valid slippery-slope argument, but... ugh
< 1281313444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dude, kids hear cursing. It's really not a big deal. Unless you're 60+ or a neocon.
< 1281313457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, intellectually I agree, but...
< 1281313461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OTOH, having something really offensive to say when you type an extra space in "rm -r * ~" is helpful.
< 1281313467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cursing is dumb anyways
< 1281313468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, get over your stupid US-based prejudices.
< 1281313475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the notion of it, I mean)
< 1281313483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ^
< 1281313495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: R is the first rating where nudity or sex can be depicted at all on film ratings.
< 1281313504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gore etc?
< 1281313518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And this literally cannot be shown over the air.
< 1281313521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine for teenagers
< 1281313535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, no, that's the point.
< 1281313559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using it randomly leaves you with nothing to say when things go really badly wrong.
< 1281313561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and de facto can't be shown on cable TV)
< 1281313562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, I mean that's fine for teenagers in the US
< 1281313577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: People do object to this.
< 1281313584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the notion of a word to express strong discontent is fine
< 1281313590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do object to?
< 1281313594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's why I don't swear often
< 1281313604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the notion that certain words are inherently bad is ridiculous
< 1281313606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Cursing in front of a child. At all.
< 1281313610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah.
< 1281313615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear a lot on the internet, barely ever in person.
< 1281313624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In person they just seem ... unnerving, somehow.
< 1281313628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talk pretty much the same IRL as I do in person. So.
< 1281313632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid swearing in public
< 1281313634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "over the air" being broadcast terrestrially?
< 1281313638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no kidding?
< 1281313639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, off-hand swearing puts me off-guard.
< 1281313639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1281313647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no kidding what?
< 1281313652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the word "fuck" will corrupt a child's mind for all eternity.
< 1281313659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As will seeing a nipple.
< 1281313659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq> I talk pretty much the same IRL as I do in person. So.
< 1281313661 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]
< 1281313665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm pretty sure that's true.
< 1281313669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's what you get with *swearing*?
< 1281313678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more willing to swear online than in person
< 1281313680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1281313684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hense why I said no kidding
< 1281313689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I certainly don't do it casually
< 1281313690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah.
< 1281313693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone does.
< 1281313696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't say "u" in person.
< 1281313704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1281313711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once saw someone on TV Tropes express surprise that "sod" wasn't bleeped.
< 1281313713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what it says again
< 1281313721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1281313724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1281313729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sod*. It's like "damn" or "hell".
< 1281313740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sod damn it to hell.
< 1281313755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, I would actually have said "IRL" there if around people who would have known the acronym without even thinking of it.
< 1281313762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, me too
< 1281313767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lolll
< 1281313772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it again
< 1281313777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully
< 1281313780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: *Wow*.
< 1281313791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slow today.
< 1281313794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1281313798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow at what?
< 1281313802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've complained about RL graphics before
< 1281313803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have totally made that slip IRL, though. :P
< 1281313851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1281313851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you say "eerc" at the start of sentences?
< 1281313864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1281313865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeerk?
< 1281313885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IIRC" funeticly.
< 1281313944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. TV ratings in the US are: Y, Y7, Y7-FV, G, PG, 14, MA. "Young", "Young, 7+", "Young, 7+, with Fantasy Violence", "General audience", "Parental Guidance suggested", "14+", "17+".
< 1281313945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "if I recall correctly" ...
< 1281313959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fantasy violence"?
< 1281313974 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fantasy violence is hitting a pirate with a frying pan
< 1281313976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Orc blood is clearly more scarring than man blood".
< 1281313982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/more/less/
< 1281313999 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : That's why Klingons had pink blood in Star Trek VI
< 1281314001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no. "Looney Tunes is clearly more scarring than Barney."
< 1281314007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/scarring/delicious/
< 1281314021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wince slightly when people star out "hell" and "damn".
< 1281314034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I consider "IIRC" as a logograph.
< 1281314035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get an impulse to hit the people who did it.
< 1281314056 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a yuropian, I find weird the whole taboo on hell and damn
< 1281314066 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well, our nations weren't founded by puritans
< 1281314087 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that probably doesn't mean much because Australia is even crazier in censorship
< 1281314104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should amuse you, though, to note that other than at the very low ranges of our ratings, violence is *perfectly* acceptable pretty much of the time.
< 1281314109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, yes. You would have thought that criminals would be cool about that.
< 1281314112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so are you going to censor me censoring d*mn?
< 1281314125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d*mn/damn/
< 1281314133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I shall focus the Device on you.
< 1281314152 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decapitation is better than an asscrack
< 1281314161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coördinates?
< 1281314175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : This isn't the 20's
< 1281314177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, an episode of The Nanny had an asscrack in it iirc
< 1281314178 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No diaresis
< 1281314190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, look what Slereah said
< 1281314191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the film a gigantic shootout? PG! Add a nipple? R! Add a suggestion of someone having sex outside of the missionary position? BANNED!
< 1281314209 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooo, not the nipple!
< 1281314231 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is strange, because babies see nipples all the time
< 1281314235 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They eat from them!
< 1281314246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The US has breast-feeding as a rarity.
< 1281314252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... No.
< 1281314269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, dö nöt ïnsült thë dïärësïs.
< 1281314280 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovecraft used diaresis :3
< 1281314285 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like
< 1281314287 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A�roport
< 1281314303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dïärësës.
< 1281314313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves the compose key.
< 1281314334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Slereah> Phantom_Hoover : That's why Klingons had pink blood in Star Trek VI
< 1281314335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?
< 1281314347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI is 6, so good.
< 1281314358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1281314364 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other episodes, it's red
< 1281314375 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they had to change it for rating purpose, IIRC
< 1281314378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Slereah> Phantom_Hoover : This isn't the 20's <Slereah> No diaresis
< 1281314380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1281314390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> Eh, an episode of The Nanny had an asscrack in it iirc <-- And you'd know, because you watched VERY CLOSELY.
< 1281314412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, The Undiscovered Country was great.
< 1281314415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Slereah: The US has breast-feeding as a rarity.
< 1281314415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> So... No.
< 1281314429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaaa?
< 1281314430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you're kidding.
< 1281314442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a total taboo on breastfeeding?
< 1281314448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not breastfeeding is considerd severely irresponsible in the UK.
< 1281314462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, America is now disqualified from the world.
< 1281314465 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p5B21764D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281314484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares to seal the IB
< 1281314487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course there would be one.
< 1281314490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone seen Star Trek (2009)?
< 1281314497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves showing babies BREASTS.
< 1281314498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1281314500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes
< 1281314502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: International Baccalaureate?
< 1281314507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: International Boundary
< 1281314512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: coppro: Is it any good>
< 1281314513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the only one I have seen
< 1281314514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good?
< 1281314515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE that big curved line
< 1281314516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes.
< 1281314521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: worth watching
< 1281314521 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise : Yes
< 1281314523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Presumably you've seen other Trek series, though.
< 1281314527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1281314530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wha?!
< 1281314535 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I most remember from Star Trek XI is
< 1281314549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen all the ST movies except 6
< 1281314552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Prescription: The Next Generation. Yes, all of it. Well. You can skip everything with beardless Riker and Wesley.
< 1281314553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not a taboo, but baby formula is the norm.
< 1281314556 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point, they send on a mission Sulu, Kirk, and some guy in a red suit
< 1281314556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By far the norm.
< 1281314558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now shoo, go watch it.
< 1281314560 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought
< 1281314560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's crazy.
< 1281314563 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Red guy is gonna die"
< 1281314565 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1281314568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was never on, so I never watched it.
< 1281314570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it is.
< 1281314571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: And he did, don't spoil it. :P
< 1281314581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : It's really not a spoiler
< 1281314586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's Star Trek
< 1281314587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Virgin 1 show TNG, DS9 and Voyager every day... :P
< 1281314591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: True dat
< 1281314594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red suits die if they go on a mission
< 1281314601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<coppro> I've seen all the ST movies except 6
< 1281314602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch it
< 1281314603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very good
< 1281314607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know that I should
< 1281314608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, red SHIRTS.
< 1281314610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the only Trek film I've seen)
< 1281314622 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : Watch Star Trek 4 and 8
< 1281314624 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the best
< 1281314636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is First Contact?
< 1281314641 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281314646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1281314649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defs watch
< 1281314667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know the formula, right?
< 1281314669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's recorded on the Sky+ box downstairs.
< 1281314673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only works if you add Galaxy Quest.
< 1281314675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not watch 5 except under duress
< 1281314675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/odd
< 1281314680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know.
< 1281314684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get Nemesis and (2009) correct
< 1281314690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness :: Int -> Bool
< 1281314693 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galaxy Quest is also p. good
< 1281314694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one's 5?
< 1281314703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Final Frontier
< 1281314704 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is the one considered bad
< 1281314707 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it, though
< 1281314713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shatner wrote The Final Frontier.
< 1281314720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure Shatner is a fucking terrible writer.
< 1281314720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness no = if no `mod` 2 == 1 then True else False
< 1281314725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...
< 1281314731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trekGoodness = even
< 1281314736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also:
< 1281314737 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover : what about 10
< 1281314739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1281314740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "if x then True else False"
< 1281314752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Galaxy Quest must be counted as #10
< 1281314755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cut me some slack!
< 1281314758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost wrote code like that recently
< 1281314759 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever.
< 1281314767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's #11: Nemesis, bad, #12: (2009), good
< 1281314780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I wrote in in like 5 seconds in a tiny single line IRC box.
< 1281314798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was never going to be best practice.
< 1281314805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me to no end that the HDTV is downstairs. >_>
< 1281314816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, I wrote lists in cpp on an /iPhone/ in a mental institution.
< 1281314821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I cut no slack :P
< 1281314828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On one line, too. In IRC.
< 1281314835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, you're God.
< 1281314839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pssh.
< 1281314860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a full kernel by whistling down a phone!
< 1281314861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.littlespikeyland.com/st_odd_even.php
< 1281314863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Therefore we can be 99% confident that the odd and even films represent two different classes of films, with the even films being the "better" of the two sets."
< 1281314867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, Joybubbles.
< 1281314870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I love having worshippers.
< 1281314887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(totally cheating though, that analysis)
< 1281314904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, more Trek opinions needed:
< 1281314910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enterprise: good series, bad series?
< 1281314947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock connected? Or is it some other two movies that are connected?
< 1281314959 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-4 are all direct sequels
< 1281314967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to sleep
< 1281314972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS FILIMING MORE RATING SERIESING
< 1281314972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281314995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, afaik, Enterprise is widely hated
< 1281315000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never saw an episode myself though
< 1281315004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty bad
< 1281315010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1281315015 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know
< 1281315025 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't care for the Wrath of Khan all that much
< 1281315031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep Space Nine: good series, bad series?
< 1281315045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS9 has good and bad in it
< 1281315049 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I love Ricardo Montalban
< 1281315051 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well
< 1281315053 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as wildly varying as voyager
< 1281315056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on average better
< 1281315067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a litmus test, I despise DS9. :P
< 1281315076 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's terrible, though?
< 1281315079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's /saner/ than Voyager, but...
< 1281315081 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The animated series.
< 1281315081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so fucking boring!
< 1281315093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The animated series is all that's bad about Star Trek.
< 1281315095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061122013747/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/0c/KIRK_IS_A_JERK.jpg/292px-KIRK_IS_A_JERK.jpg
< 1281315114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't the holodeck introduced in the animated series?
< 1281315121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "rec room" was.
< 1281315122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the whole, I'd say DS9 > VOY
< 1281315129 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, iunno
< 1281315130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, TNG is the one that really defined the holodeck.
< 1281315144 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that I regret is that M'ress was only in the animated series
< 1281315149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you have an attention span the length of ... something long.
< 1281315168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Furrrrryyyyy
< 1281315173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, broken link
< 1281315177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mimg.ugo.com/200901/14973/mress.jpg
< 1281315177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1281315180 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hit it.
< 1281315180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is not
< 1281315188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: * > VOY
< 1281315200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nonono, Voyager has great merit because it's fucking hilarious, always.
< 1281315203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even watching Threshold is great.
< 1281315218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm afraid I find myself groaning instead.
< 1281315239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The animated series had some good moments. And a lot of corny moments.
< 1281315246 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1281315257 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most telling episode is the one where they go into a universe
< 1281315260 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where there's MAGIC
< 1281315261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, though, it's TOS with worse production values.
< 1281315269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like TOS much.
< 1281315269 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Spock has to do a spell
< 1281315276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Roddenberry was a very good writer, I have to admit.
< 1281315276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if such a thing was possible)
< 1281315282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too idealistic.
< 1281315290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love TNG.
< 1281315291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: TOS, again, has its moments and a lot of corn.
< 1281315296 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite episodes are the time travel episodes
< 1281315299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG is absolutely amazing.
< 1281315301 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I loved 4 and 8
< 1281315308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a digital remaster thing of TOS airing on one of the CBS channels over here.
< 1281315311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awful.
< 1281315313 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, TNG also had stupid episodes
< 1281315316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't digitally remaster cardboard.
< 1281315319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels still and ... weird.
< 1281315320 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the one where they all become children
< 1281315335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but TOS had more stupid episodes than good ones.
< 1281315343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG is as good as Trek gets.
< 1281315347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the good ones are, themselves, filled with a lot of corn.
< 1281315348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is "a bit above mediocre".
< 1281315367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, most sci-fi you see is "almost unbearable crap".
< 1281315368 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, it has Data <3
< 1281315371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So TNG is very good.
< 1281315384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm with Slereah
< 1281315404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a nice Data quote to mark the mention of his name
< 1281315427 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One is my name, and the other isn't."
< 1281315440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a script
< 1281315444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, a script.
< 1281315495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lot of _anythng_ is crap.
< 1281315500 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything
< 1281315516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Brien: We're all going to be burning the midnight oil on this one. / Data: That would be inadvisable. If you attempt to ignite a petroleum product on this ship at zero-hundred hours, it will activate the fire suppression system, which will seal off this entire compartment. / [...] / Data: Ah. Then "to burn the midnight oil" implies late work?
< 1281315521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon after:
< 1281315537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data: This will require a completely new field induction subprocessor. It appears that we will be required to... ignite the midnight petroleum, sir.
< 1281315564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data would have been a much better character if the Trek writers had any sense of what an emotionless, rational, but still human-intelligence robot would be like :P
< 1281315569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, uh
< 1281315572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More tautological than I intended.
< 1281315579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, but more bad sci-fi gets published/etc.
< 1281315593 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise : Iunno
< 1281315605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would not have been as endearing if he actually had no emotions
< 1281315625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True...
< 1281315628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still.
< 1281315634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes he's not very logical ... at all.
< 1281315645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact come to think of it he's basically a Vulcan who talks weird.
< 1281315686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Vulcans themselves are not exactly logical.
< 1281315687 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most of the TNG cast was just TOS with different actors
< 1281315710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider their claims of this to just be religious assertations.
< 1281315716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, claims.
< 1281315720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One thing I've always been uneasy about: canon states they learned to "suppress" emotions.
< 1281315721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assertions.
< 1281315725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they still have all these emotions, they just ... bottle them up?
< 1281315729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gotta be really unhealthy.
< 1281315739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Picard was a way better captain than Kirk though
< 1281315746 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why the Vulkan in Star Trek 5 was all crazy
< 1281315755 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just lets out his emotions, and BAM!
< 1281315757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vulkan"
< 1281315766 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fifty years of bottled emotions come out
< 1281315772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, the quality of that cleaned-up TNG rip is pretty good.
< 1281315782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's still... very soft, you know, but that's just how it was filmed.
< 1281315790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No artifacts or anything.
< 1281315835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, TNG from season 2 onwards is good. Preferably without Wesley. Definitely not anywhere where Wesley saves the day.
< 1281315846 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wesley is the worst
< 1281315853 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With his faggy rainbow sweater
< 1281315867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Wil Wheaton hated Wesley.
< 1281315873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked The Game
< 1281315878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: FUCK YOU
< 1281315885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Example of the correct use of profanity.
< 1281315886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, I haven't seen that many Wesley saves the day eps, so
< 1281315907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Game"
< 1281315914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1281315920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thank you very much
< 1281315928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wesley was by far the worse character on TNG.
< 1281315949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Wesley do something that got someone killed?
< 1281315959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damned Gene Wesley Roddenberry.
< 1281315967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah: being that annoying can kill.
< 1281315979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: I thought Chekov was French.
< 1281315980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No joke.
< 1281315992 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuclearrr wessels
< 1281315992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was such a smooth Frenchman, too, right up until I realised his name was "Chekov".
< 1281315996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1281316016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like they could actually get a *Russian* to do the role.
< 1281316021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Cold War and all.
< 1281316033 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was the point of Star Trek :o
< 1281316042 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To present a perfect future where everyone is at peace
< 1281316045 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except aliens
< 1281316047 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck aliens
< 1281316070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, an American played Chekov in (2009), too.
< 1281316070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind if I do!
< 1281316073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1281316105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Some of Wesley's The Wesley-ness is accidental: Six scripts had been drafted for the "Wesley saves the day" plot, with the intention that the best elements of each would be combined to make one character-focus episode on Wesley — none of them were especially good, but it was hoped that there would be enough good material between them to make a single episode. A writer's strike dried up the supply of scripts for the first season, so all six d
< 1281316107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which aliens are we talkking about here?
< 1281316112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan*
< 1281316120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "all six d--" but I get the jist. Ha.
< 1281316129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gist
< 1281316165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *talking
< 1281316185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'[...] so all six drafts were completed and produced, at which point Wesley's characterization was firmly entrenched. '
< 1281316233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wouldn't that make that badness just a season 1 thing?
< 1281316255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because Wesley continued being Wesley until he left.
< 1281316329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that just made Season 1 all the worse.
< 1281316384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even non-Wesley, bearded-Riker episodes can be really bad. e.g. Sub Rosa.
< 1281316493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but a Wesley episode is instabad. As is babyface Riker.
< 1281316518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe eliminating Deanna-focused episodes would trim it down to almost universally good.
< 1281316558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, Troi.
< 1281316566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character who had *no reason to exist*.
< 1281316572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sub Rosa was Troi-focused, for instance.
< 1281316594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell would you need a *counselor* on the bridge at all times?
< 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: Computer, what day is it?
< 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer: The first day of the rest of your life.
< 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: GRRRRR....
< 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: It's Stardate 47988, Captain.
< 1281316622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: *Thank* you, Counsellor. At last your genius for stating the obvious has come in useful.
< 1281316623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Five-Minute "All Good Things..."
< 1281316626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And she didn't even... Counsel.
< 1281316645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Worf is the one who actually says it in the episode. :P)
< 1281316702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Picard: Yes... yes, of course. It's all coming back now. I'm readjusting to this time --
< 1281316702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: -- period. Dammit!
< 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: I'm sorry, sir, I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you swearing about punctuation or feminine problems?
< 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: Tasha! You're alive!
< 1281316703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar: Um... that's correct, sir.
< 1281316704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: At last. I've always wanted to tell you how much I miss --
< 1281316706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: -- your presence on the bridge.
< 1281316710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Troi: It is? Really? Oh, Captain, you remembered my birthday! I'll go get it right away!
< 1281316712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard: This had better be the last time we do that gag.]]
< 1281316714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dammit, I'll end up quoting the entire thing again if I don't stop.
< 1281316716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here: http://www.fiveminute.net/nextgen/fiver.php?ep=allgoodthings
< 1281316722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like twenty-minute "All Good Things...", though.
< 1281316729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't she useful in Encounter at Farpoint?
< 1281316738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Note: I've only seen a part of that ep]
< 1281316747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever counselling was done in TNG, it was *Guinan*...
< 1281316749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan*
< 1281316752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- your presence on the bridge" -> "your present's on the bridge" has to be the cheesiest thing I've ever seen.
< 1281316768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't even notice that >.>
< 1281316773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took me a while.
< 1281316798 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281316804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You may forget all parts of Encounter at Farpoint which did not have Q.
< 1281316815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Libertine's Q is hot.
< 1281316818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu
< 1281317119 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281317141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: "Te'arl grayaucht" means "[Colour of tea] bitter water" in Picardian.
< 1281317172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is "bloody" bleeped on US TV?
< 1281317236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, afaik, but I've never heard it used
< 1281317243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very British word
< 1281317260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed; Scotty says it in an episode of TNG, at least, which was broadcast on US TV, obviously.
< 1281317278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody and naff are the greatest British English-only words there are.
< 1281317326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to be that bloody not used in that context isn't particularly British
< 1281317361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that meaning.
< 1281317699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I actually use "bloody" all the time.
< 1281317728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what "naff" means though, so *eh*
< 1281317742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naff is ... rubbish, in a way, but more British.
< 1281317759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "supremely mediocre" if it was an active badness rather than a passive... middleness.
< 1281317763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ineffectual.
< 1281317763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rubbish" is already pretty British.
< 1281317771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but even more British.
< 1281317805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look at a new language that's almost exactly like Python or whatever, just cleaned up slightly and with some boring new features, and it makes you go "bleh" and "meh" and "feh" when looking at it... if it's not terrible, it's naff.
< 1281317809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in (certain parts of) Canada they use "litter" to mean what Americans mean when they say "garbage" and what Brits mean when they say "rubbish", rather than what either of us mean when we say "litter".
< 1281317828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naff#Adjective
< 1281317967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :narf?
< 1281317986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Narf?"?
< 1281318008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows 1 TV show that alise has never heard of
< 1281318042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Pinky and the Brain.
< 1281318049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't recognise the reference. Yes, of course I know of Pinky and the Brain.
< 1281319212 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281319729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise subscribe: Chat do: [ :ann | self say: ann text ].
< 1281319798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh.
< 1281320882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In contrast to the US' cursing conservatism, the word "bollocks" was deemed to be acceptable in "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols".
< 1281320887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the UK, of course)
< 1281321024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bollocks" is acceptable on TV at any time here :P
< 1281321029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's, like, not even a word here.
< 1281321065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bollocks to that.
< 1281321080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite offensive here.
< 1281321100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"logorrhoea" is actually a term, AWESOME
< 1281321318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scared_Straight! ;; "fuck" broadcast on US TV in 1978
< 1281321729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've seen "bloody" rated Y.
< 1281321769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do use "bloody".
< 1281321780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aware of "naff" but never used it myself.
< 1281321806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scared_Straight! ;; "fuck" broadcast on US TV in 1978
< 1281321807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER THIS
< 1281321817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Predates FCC obscenity rules!
< 1281321820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does floating point use a binary exponent?  why not use something like 10 or 16?
< 1281321828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But Carlin said you couldn't say "fuck" beforehand!
< 1281321833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: cuz computers use binary.
< 1281321849 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: duh.. not really an answer
< 1281321852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1281321853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Sometime after he made that joke, *they decided to use that list*.
< 1281321872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well 16 is equivalent to binary for this purpose
< 1281321876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't know the recommended way to do callback stuff in Squeak
< 1281321887 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really.. 16 gives a larger range
< 1281321904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When he had started making that joke, there were no country-wide regulations on it...
< 1281321930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was sometimes arrested *for giving that joke*...
< 1281321931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: but you'd get less precision for numbers of the form 1. ... * 16^n
< 1281321946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you?
< 1281321960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest we use base 1 for the exponent
< 1281321964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best of all worlds, really
< 1281321979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: *Oh god*. The FCC settled on that list because Carlin's routine was put on the radio and a *single person* was offended that his son heard such filth.
< 1281322033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single person that complained, you mean
< 1281322043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1281322084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Because of this mess, all live broadcasts in the US are actually on a delay so they can bleep.
< 1281322109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever since the nipple-slip and Bono saying "fuck" on live TV...)
< 1281322136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1281322142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: the mantissa would have to be 1 <= m < 16, if you then have a fixed number of bits after the point then the higher numbers would have less precision compared to in binary.
< 1281322150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1281322154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lower numbers
< 1281322157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro becomeForward: nil.
< 1281322209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess I'm confused then
< 1281322233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Last Christmas, when the whole "X-Factor (music reality show thing here) contestant winner" vs "really old Rage Against the Machine single" battle for the Christmas #1 space on the charts was ongoing (this actually happened, I am not shitting you: Rage Against the Machine won!), Rage Against the Machine were asked to play the song live on radio; it ends with a succession of lines that use the word "fuck" rather a lot. This was in the day time; they h
< 1281322233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad been asked ... not to include that part. They included it. All that happened was a fadeout and the presenters going "Bad band! Bad!". What would the reaction in the US be? Nuclear fallout?
< 1281322238 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to change floating point so that I could have 8 digits of decimal precision in 32 bits
< 1281322281 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't able to do it until I change it from 2^x to 10^x
< 1281322293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts assassination of everyone in #squeak
< 1281322303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fines, fines, more fines, and a possible loss of broadcasting license.
< 1281322313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in the news, nuclear fallout.
< 1281322318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I may have killed everyone on IRC
< 1281322323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1281322327 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lives!
< 1281322341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We fucking remember someone's nipple being shown on TV for a few seconds, for crissake...
< 1281322349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, frames.
< 1281322370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid nipple decoration thingy
< 1281322370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1281322412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. it seems like I can leave 28 bits for the number and 4 bits for placing the decimal point, and I should be able to represent positive and negative numbers from .00000001 to 99999999.
< 1281322419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well 10^x doesn't really make sense unless you use decimal for the mantissa part too
< 1281322491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, yes, the censorship also applies to radio.
< 1281322516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Music on the radio ends up either having the cursing removed from the voice track in the for-radio mix or a bleep.
< 1281322583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess that could be 1 bit for sign, 4 bits for decimal place, 27 bits for number.  how can I translate that into a 2^x?
< 1281322602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo attempts assassination of everyone in #squeak <-- What did they do this time?
< 1281322605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only 4 bits of 2^x, I can't make big numbers
< 1281322610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nothing
< 1281322617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except assist me
< 1281322627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> Chatter allInstancesDo: [ :chatter | chatter becomeForward: nil ].
< 1281322627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<RandalSchwartz> best to do "String new" just in case become: or becomeForward: is two-way
< 1281322639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randal Schwartz!
< 1281322640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's cool
< 1281322648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& quite famous
< 1281322653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randal_L._Schwartz
< 1281322679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popularised "Just another Perl hacker,", invented the Schwartzian transform
< 1281322687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sued by Oregon :P
< 1281322702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-author of the camel book, Programming Perl
< 1281322703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1281322707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and now Squeaker ofc)
< 1281322708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know floating point beyond that it's m*2^x with presumably fixed no. of bits for each of m and x
< 1281322730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's it, basically
< 1281322743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot even fathom why Comedy Central does the bleeping.
< 1281322767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keep in mind they air South Park. Which used to have the record for instances of fuck per minute.)
< 1281322776 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hits the fan?
< 1281322801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they used the word "shit" either 0 or 1 times in that ep. I think
< 1281322805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a lot
< 1281322807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea
< 1281322816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0, 1, or a lot"
< 1281322818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The movie.
< 1281322836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, that does exclude 2 or 3
< 1281322843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still has record for instances of fuck in an animated film.
< 1281322863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it lost the record for total to a documentary on the word.)
< 1281322891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 9*2*10^8
< 1281322901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!smalltalk
< 1281322904 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1800000000
< 1281322911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!smalltalk Transcript show: 'Hi!'.
< 1281322913 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python 1+2
< 1281322916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. "It Hits The Fan" had 162 instances of shit.
< 1281322916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww
< 1281322918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2^32
< 1281322919 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967296
< 1281322921 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1281322921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1281322930 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1281322931 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1281322931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A counter runs in the episode.
< 1281322934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well there _should_ be room in there, somehow :D
< 1281322963 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah somehow the 2^x wastes it whereas my non-standard representation fits it
< 1281322973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you didn't notice because it was bleeped?
< 1281322985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I never saw the ep
< 1281322998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i suspect those 8-digit calculators use decimal internally, anyway
< 1281323004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just vaguely knew the name, and that it was related to the word "shit"
< 1281323010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And something about a subversion?
< 1281323036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, what about this floating point structure:
< 1281323042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the floating point is dedicated to /specifying the base/
< 1281323046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. we have (mantissa, base, exponent)
< 1281323053 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1281323058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably base is quite small, mantissa is quite big, and exponent is medium
< 1281323058 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be cool
< 1281323065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yeah /that/ would be awesome :D
< 1281323090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually ... that sounds like a good idea
< 1281323094 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1281323096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, someone tell me why it sucks.
< 1281323116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well until you try to do arithmetic with two numbers of different bases
< 1281323123 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well there is a decimal32 sstandard but it only gives 7 digits of precision
< 1281323128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: use hackego for python
< 1281323137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how is it stored? Binary Coded BASEN?
< 1281323146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1281323146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just binary
< 1281323153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1281323156 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1281323161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: we store (m,b,e) for m * b^e in binary
< 1281323170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1281323179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget a sign bit
< 1281323187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(s,b,e)
< 1281323188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes
< 1281323194 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1281323198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+-,s,b,e) for +-(m * b^e)
< 1281323210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1281323213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in IEEE
< 1281323229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have s:24b
< 1281323241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2^32 / (9*2*10^8)
< 1281323242 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.386092942222222
< 1281323243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves 7b for exponent
< 1281323285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should try VisualWorks
< 1281323297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: there is so little extra room that you need to pack tightly, a decimal standard would probably use some way that made it easy to get at the decimal digits, using too much room
< 1281323307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for 64-bit, we have s:48.77b; taking that as 48, we have 15b left for the exponent
< 1281323338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's say we take away 6 bits from the exponent, leaving there be 9b for the exponent
< 1281323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these 6 bits are the base
< 1281323361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if it uses 4 bits per digit, then you get just 8 and 1 is probably for exponent
< 1281323394 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah I figured out for an old 8 digit calculator screen it can represent 1255333573 different values, requiring 30.2254, or 31 bits
< 1281323419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1281323420 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's with the negative sign eating a digit
< 1281323421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives us (2^48 - 1) * 61^511 maximum
< 1281323430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait the exponent is signed
< 1281323437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever, it's a big number
< 1281323445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any flaws to this representation? apart from difficult arithmetic :P
< 1281323484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well there will probably be some numbers with multiple representations
< 1281323509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, who cares :D
< 1281323549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1281323569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it will take about an hour for VW to install
< 1281323594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "more professional than Squeak/Pharo", I was kind of hoping that that wouldn't include the customary IDE slowness
< 1281323601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And install slowness
< 1281323607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: VisualWorks sucks.
< 1281323615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo is professional enough.
< 1281323620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides being proprietary, howso?
< 1281323631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does :P
< 1281323644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They came up with the Announcements framework, which I _will_ be using in my AW SDK bindings
< 1281323744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we seem to have done 20min in the space of 2min
< 1281323747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a good sign
< 1281323962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's a sign of bad time dilation.  we might be falling into a black hole!
< 1281324200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EsotericChannel subscribe: Chat do: [:ann | ann chatter becomeForward: nil ]. "MUAHAHAHA! ANYONE SPEAKS, THEY DIE!"
< 1281324270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa
< 1281324509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now stuck at 8 sec remaining
< 1281324511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies
< 1281324689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains
< 1281325133 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here play Battle for Wesnoth?  My friend and I would like to find a group to play in.
< 1281325446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it once or twice, I think
< 1281325457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love the music, esp. The Dangerous Symphony
< 1281325582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1281325606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Well ... AnMaster.
< 1281325617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: So yeah, nobody.
< 1281325621 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1281325631 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't suppose you're up for a game right now?
< 1281325642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :/
< 1281325652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to eat and sleep soon
< 1281325997 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in case you hasn't already found this  http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
< 1281326029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not.
< 1281326031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
< 1281327036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one configure the web browser XChat opens links in?
< 1281327177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Hackiki do Smalltalk?
< 1281327216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can my toaster do Smalltalk????
< 1281327246 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Toaster new) insert: myToast; toast.
< 1281327265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe that should be add:
< 1281327286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad Sgeo is finally growing taste in languages. It's like watching a wittle baby gwow up! >_>
< 1281327296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next you'll discover Lisp.
< 1281327356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is more implementation-dependent, and there are so many, than Smalltalk!
< 1281327426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hackiki can do anything the system can do, however, most Smalltalk environment aren't exactly known for integrating well into their environment. GNU Smalltalk is the exception.
< 1281327434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU Smalltalk sucks.
< 1281327437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1281327443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Smalltalk is very implementation-dependent.
< 1281327446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less so now, but still pretty dependent.
< 1281327452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially considering EVERYTHING IS INSIDE A VM IMAGE.
< 1281327459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that you say? File outs? Hahahaha...
< 1281327474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monticello is gaining support for more systems, though, I gather.
< 1281327482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the format for those defined by ANSI Smalltalk?
< 1281327500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fileouts? Yes.
< 1281327507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely "portability", though, more like an export format.
< 1281327529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how Monticello would help the portability issue, though :/
< 1281327556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it easier to bring incompatible code into various implementations?
< 1281327593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow collaboration between people using different implementations.
< 1281327605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's assuming all the system classes are the same, which isn't such a reasonable assumption, but is getting better.
< 1281327623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, though, nobody uses anything but VisualWorks and Squeak/Pharo, and nobody doing open-source stuff uses VisualWorks.
< 1281327639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not such a huge problem, considering the Smalltalk community has quite a bit of inertia (Pharo is long overdue) so it's unlikely to change.
< 1281327657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can trace Squeak's lineage directly back to Smalltalk-80.
< 1281327797 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281327891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of a chance do you think I have of getting other AW people to start using Smalltalk when I showcase the advantages?
< 1281327950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound hideously stupid, so 0.
< 1281327956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it's so ... different.
< 1281327966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It looks like a kid made it, and how do I save to a file?"
< 1281327974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is this browser thing? Where do I type class {?"
< 1281328013 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1281328019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you never met another AW SDK programmer
< 1281328082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Smalltalk.
< 1281328101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't *use* it much, I must admit that it has much awesome.
< 1281328125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still needs to get a grip on thisContext
< 1281328142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity it almost inherently is its own completely seperate environment.
< 1281328155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's what makes it so fun!
< 1281328166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1281328182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this just means that Smalltalk should run on bare hardware.
< 1281328183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1281328199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Doesn't static typing usually enable IDEs to be much smarter?
< 1281328209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Smalltalks are often known for their IDEness
< 1281328286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what makes for a great IDE? Being able to edit everything at runtime.
< 1281328332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Of course, this just means that Smalltalk should run on bare hardware.
< 1281328334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it did originally
< 1281328348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Quite.
< 1281328798 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281328969 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1281329584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Should I go back to horrifying the Europeans?
< 1281329592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281329600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/prison-bunk.jpg
< 1281329605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use INCHes here
< 1281329606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American prison cell.
< 1281329645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1000000/images/_1004547_uk_cell150.jpg
< 1281329646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British
< 1281329662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sydwalker.info/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/swedish_prison_cell-300x203.jpg
< 1281329663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.jabulela.com/files/media/norwegian-prison4.jpg Norwegian prison cell.
< 1281329665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish
< 1281329668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1281329683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love Scandinavia.
< 1281329694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm moving to sweden then stealing tons of shit
< 1281329694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1281329697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1281330339 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1281330620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIAERESISESERS
< 1281330738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D�� ... aresis.
< 1281330772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dïäëräësïs
< 1281330981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So how come movies get to say "fuck"?
< 1281331057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They aren't controlled by broadcast regulations
< 1281331064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is cable tv
< 1281331069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet they still bleep curses
< 1281331072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says pikhq
< 1281331105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most cable stations are controlled by big networks, as I understand it
< 1281331175 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281331189 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281331262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hysterical raisins.
< 1281331282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1281331285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the us
< 1281331337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1281331344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HRM
< 1281331349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Erlang-style concurrency without weird receive{} blocks
< 1281331366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found no information on the Actor model in Smalltalk
< 1281331375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the Haskell FAQ on lambdabot.
< 1281331398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how the Actor model works in general... I think
< 1281331464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu Q Q Q Q Qu Qu Qu Qu
< 1281331467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why would that help him?
< 1281331477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because Haskell Can Do That
< 1281331478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1281331500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu Qu “Indeed," said the Ambassador, “‘Qu’ does look appealing in this typeface.”
< 1281331583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why don't you want receive blocks?
< 1281331749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think encouraging someone to learn Smalltalk at the same time I'm teaching him C# might be a bad idea
< 1281331807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given select: = Where(), collect: = Select()
< 1281331815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1281332220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not teaching him. (Probably. Unless you're a natural-born teacher, which I'm not sure exists.)
< 1281332581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP/Deolalikar.pdf Serious attempt at P!=NP proof by a respected computer scientist at HP that has withstood some criticism so far, although nobody knows anything about whether it works or not, of course.
< 1281332586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need people here to look over it :-)
< 1281332626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.activeworlds.com/showthread.php?p=128618#post128618
< 1281332662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    do: [ :ann | myInstance say: (ann name), ': ', (ann message).].
< 1281332663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove first .
< 1281332664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is redundant
< 1281332672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1281332675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the ()s in the ,s
< 1281332675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I've looked at it, though not much.
< 1281332686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    do: [ :ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message ].
< 1281332696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any opinions?
< 1281332706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, these people have probably never seen Smalltalk before
< 1281332718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do it, I'm improving your Smalltalk.
< 1281332722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that might be an argument for making it look cleaner
< 1281332724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1281332728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know the precedent rules
< 1281332775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about style, now do it >_>
< 1281332780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hurts my eyes as-is :P
< 1281332809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed
< 1281332821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Good God.
< 1281332828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ok to have a constructor not use new, right?
< 1281332836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ?
< 1281332848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's stylistic not to.
< 1281332857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never thought an even plausible proof of that would float around. :P
< 1281332864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"File named: ...", for instance, would be conventional.
< 1281332873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps "File withName: ...", if you're creating a file and not just reading it from disk.
< 1281332940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1281333057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I showed you a screenshot of MagsBot once
< 1281333127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    do: [ :ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message].
< 1281333133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either remove the spaces from the whole [...] block (preferable)
< 1281333135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put a space after message
< 1281333136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest
< 1281333139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    do: [:ann | myInstance say: ann name, ': ', ann message].
< 1281333142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally no spaces are added.
< 1281333146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And YES this is important :|
< 1281333196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add some comments
< 1281333196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :||
< 1281333478 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281333497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I should eat my pizza and go to bed
< 1281333523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 5:54.
< 1281333525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think likewise.
< 1281333578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, uh
< 1281333590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sample completely forgets everything required by the AW SDK
< 1281333659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix it and fix it according to my suggestions :P
< 1281333660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLAVE
< 1281333662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, goodnight.
< 1281333662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye.
< 1281333664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1281335983 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281336405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281337056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll: what animal will Ubuntu 11.04 be?
< 1281337140 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.120 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281337179 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281337218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyala? Nanger?
< 1281337443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames has that list of suggestions; I don't think they've picked one yet?
< 1281337509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nagging Nag if more pop-up reminders are added to the desktop" -- I smell some bitterness.
< 1281337542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naughty Nymph
< 1281337635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason there seems to be quite many Naughty N's suggested.
< 1281337645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Naughty Nightelf -- just think about the artwork we could make"
< 1281337668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that'd promote Linux-on-desktop well.
< 1281337723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narwhal seems like a popular animal, too.
< 1281337764 0 :tombom!tombom@82.11.102.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281337773 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1281337773 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281338621 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]
< 1281339421 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1281340407 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1281340799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1281340800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281341290 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281341617 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281342887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP.htm is interesting
< 1281342894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a list of proofs of P=NP, and of P!=NP
< 1281342909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1281342927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, proofs that it's undecidable
< 1281342929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things
< 1281342945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gutsy that the guy published it publicly without perr review
< 1281342947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*peer
< 1281342988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Hubert Chen> "Proof by contradiction. Assume P=NP. Let y be a proof that P=NP. The proof y can be verified in polynomial time by a competent computer scientist, the existence of which we assert. However, since P=NP, the proof y can be generated in polynomial time by such computer scientists. Since this generation has not yet occurred (despite attempts by such computer scientists to produce a proof), we have a contradiction."
< 1281343318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1281343363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it just has a really large constant factor?
< 1281343473 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1281345256 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-pwbteqouqtafvkem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281348142 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281348652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281348684 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281348887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281348891 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281349519 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i left it way too late to chip in but i have a friend who thinks he may have an O(n^4) algorithm for turning NP into P
< 1281349549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably wrong
< 1281349630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281349697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "probably wrong" is very close to "provably wrong"; it has a Levenshtein distance of just one.
< 1281349704 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281349735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that gives a Levenshtein-1 proof of P!=NP, doesn't it?
< 1281350086 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Equal]: In 2005, Dr. Joachim Mertz proved P=NP. His main contribution is a linear programming formulation of the TSP with O(n^5) variables and O(n^4) constraints. <-- weird...
< 1281352601 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style.
< 1281352927 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281353671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/
< 1281353671 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1281353671 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /`\
< 1281353682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1281353683 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wish i knew where fix point combinators? :) fnord/ fnord/ babylonian cuneiform was just added in unicode 5.0, so few major lisps? ( networking and concurrency, despite my usual polemics i still think it's kind of hard
< 1281355021 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281355606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ \m/
< 1281355613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/  \m/
< 1281355617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/   \m/
< 1281355622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/    \m/
< 1281355630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/m\ /m\
< 1281355633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1281355655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hi
< 1281355918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what are you doing?
< 1281355967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to trigger myndzi
< 1281355973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/
< 1281355973 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1281355973 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\
< 1281355989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also being frustrated at AW SDK's clinically insane model for callbacks
< 1281356072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=SDK_Asynchronous_Operation
< 1281356120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that when you call a blocking function synchroneously, it can trigger events and callbacks
< 1281356136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I were joking
< 1281356168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to use a Monitor to make the pain go away
< 1281356479 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281356531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered that some "events" in the AW SDK are actually callbacks, although not termed such
< 1281356977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you sure your name isn't just too short?
< 1281356982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   \m/ \m/
< 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    `\o/�
< 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      |
< 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (_|�`\
< 1281356983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |_)
< 1281357012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            \m/ \m/
< 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           `\o/�
< 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             |
< 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            /`\
< 1281357012 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          (_| |_)
< 1281357184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Narwhal seems like a popular animal, too.
< 1281357194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, everyone from reddit would suggest that
< 1281357237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<coppro> it's gutsy that the guy published it publicly without perr review
< 1281357278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems likely he didn't mean to, he was just sending it to other researchers to look through but the email got seriously out of hand
< 1281357351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone _else_ put it on the web iiuc
< 1281357545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw at least one reddit comment by someone who _had_ read it and was worried about one particular point in the proof, something claimed to be polynomial in size
< 1281357567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like someone said yesterday, in the context of embarrassing pictures: "don't worry: what happens on the internet, stays on the internet".
< 1281357580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1281357678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf xkcd
< 1281357790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not cool, not funny, not a good comic?
< 1281357814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wtf :D
< 1281357940 0 :fruitbag`!~freshmeat@89.240.18.69 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281357954 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to device a quicksort algorithm in Brainfuck?
< 1281357963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, probably
< 1281357971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd go mad in the process, though.
< 1281357972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't interpret "quick" too literally :D
< 1281358027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, the complete lack of anything approaching a function call would be a significant barrier.
< 1281358043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, given the cost of moving around in brainfuck, might not bubble sort really be optimal for it?
< 1281358088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *everything* has a huge cost in BF.
< 1281358107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean asymptotically
< 1281358115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, possibly
< 1281358124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swapping would have a pretty high cost.
< 1281358124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I don't think quicksort would be too difficult in BF
< 1281358127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to move across things, you can just as well swap while you're doing it
< 1281358254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mezzacotta seems to be on a good run at the moment...
< 1281358302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't notice anything particularly good today, although he always gives the mad scientists at least 50%
< 1281358481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "good" in the sense of "fairly coherent".
< 1281358572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz has written a pretty nice quicksort in Befunge-93; even if it's a bit limited due to the 80x25 playfield. Admittedly that is a far more expressive and less-painful-to-write language.
< 1281358639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find it nicely syntax-highlighted at http://web.archive.org/web/20061205193036/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/qsort.html courtesy of archive.org.
< 1281358780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is Funge98-compatible in the sense that it can sort more data in a system like that.
< 1281359002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Monitor: FUCK YOU
< 1281359041 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how would I do an equivalent to a for loop in BF?
< 1281359065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, set a cell as a counter, then decrement in []s.
< 1281359099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not a C-style for loop.
< 1281359139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counting down to 0 is usually easier, though.
< 1281359181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses at http://pastebin.com/LDyEkQpa
< 1281359191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Easier than up, with a test at the end, I mean.)
< 1281359217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck + lambda calculus. It must be done.
< 1281359370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, there are a few high-level to BF compilers, but they're underdeveloped.
< 1281359477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to help me?
< 1281359518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what language?
< 1281359525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk
< 1281359536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I cannot help.
< 1281359644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you are going, I will not follow.
< 1281359699 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 is such a queer language
< 1281359721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, queer in the Enid Blyton sense?
< 1281359845 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed
< 1281359854 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :August would be another word
< 1281359899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are stranger languages out there.
< 1281359914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including ones that the inventors themselves don't understand.
< 1281359937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a Feather reference?
< 1281359962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1281360097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to shamelessly self-advertise the befunge-bot to yet another new victim.
< 1281360111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, tell fruitbag` about yourself
< 1281360111 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's your only potential competitor and there's no javascript or anything. they make
< 1281360125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1281360125 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1281360146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good, now I don't have to do that myself.
< 1281360158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281360159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it is true what e says: there's no javascript or anything.)
< 1281360773 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinating stuff
< 1281360800 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The statement '[-]' decrements the value at a point until zero, right?
< 1281360874 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281360878 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1281360903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1281360908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1281360912 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281361000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls
< 1281361015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monitor is reentrant. Apparently I want a non-reentrant Monitor
< 1281361246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, [->+] is the basic copying algorithm.
< 1281361278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/copying/moving/
< 1281361292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that Phantom_Hoover is as sleep deprived as I am
< 1281361308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no, not really.
< 1281361328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a fairly good night's sleep last night.
< 1281361343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, exactly, is that supposed to go back to the old cell to copy more than 1?
< 1281361363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oops.
< 1281361372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag`, ignore everything I say from now on.
< 1281361590 0 :fruitbag!~freshmeat@92.24.13.165 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281361720 0 :fruitbag`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1281363456 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Phantom_Hoover...
< 1281363466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why...?
< 1281363467 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't ignoring you
< 1281363479 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something came up and I was AFK
< 1281363493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were supposed to ignore me!
< 1281363508 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so you raised the question of moving a byte from one cell to another
< 1281363516 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the general algorithm?
< 1281363525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there needed to be a < at the end of the loop.
< 1281363544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, [->+<], I think.
< 1281363629 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- was decrement that pointer or memory cell?
< 1281363642 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, decrement contents or pointer?
< 1281363660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck doesn't have pointers.
< 1281363666 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course
< 1281363681 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant was the region being pointed
< 1281363707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- decrements the cell under the tape head.
< 1281363901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit annoying that it kills the old value, though. Actually copying a cell tends to involve something uglier like [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-] and need a spare cell there.
< 1281363964 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that makes sense
< 1281363985 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bascially, we are decrementing the contents from one cell and incrementing by the same amount in another
< 1281363990 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until the source cell is zero
< 1281364147 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppse that I wanted to traverse eight consequtive cells...
< 1281364177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>, in essence.
< 1281364180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another sometimes useful construction is >[-]+<[>-<]>[xxx-]<; that does xxx if current cell (at start) is zero; it's basically [xxx[-]] except the test is negated.
< 1281364222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, that [>-<] should be [>-<[-]] there.
< 1281364259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also looks like an angry horizontal-smiley.
< 1281364314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away; getting from work to home now.)
< 1281364775 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so let me get this straight....
< 1281364921 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, man -- wouldn't that decrememnt the contents of each consequtive cell by one?
< 1281364990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers functional esolangs for this very reason
< 1281365074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, are you talking about fizzie's construction?
< 1281365197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sets the cell being tested to 0 and the next one to 0 or 1; the xxx can have its own side-effects.
< 1281365490 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so how do we incremement the position while decrementing the contents of a cell statically?
< 1281365595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether arbitrary lookup is even possible in BF, at least without the tape being explicitly structured.
< 1281366093 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>-<]: "Increment the pointer, decrement the contents of the new position and go back until zero is reached."
< 1281366120 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't do much
< 1281366127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, fizzie got that wrong.
< 1281366135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be [>-<[-]]
< 1281366183 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so...
< 1281366243 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what exactly happens with that one, Phantom_Hoover
< 1281366295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is possible
< 1281366301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arbitrary lookup, that is)
< 1281366305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1281366310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to move all the data along the tape
< 1281366316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to give room for a bunch of temporaries
< 1281366324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, destructive as hell, surely?
< 1281366330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1281366339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, say the tape starts out as abc12345678
< 1281366347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the letters are temporaries and the numbers are data
< 1281366351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you change it to 1abc2345678
< 1281366359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 12abc345678
< 1281366360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1281366365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving the data past the temporaries
< 1281366367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, >[-]+<[>-<[-]>is effectively equivalent to logical not.
< 1281366401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[i+1] = !data[i]; data[i] = 0
< 1281366418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh.
< 1281366446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing that without some sort of compiler (or even macro system) seems like a road to insanity.
< 1281366469 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of sanity, I think mine is on the verge
< 1281366485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, that's normal here.
< 1281366507 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just want to go somewhere and be alone for a few weeks.
< 1281366520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understandable.
< 1281366620 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's even worse if you live in a big city
< 1281366998 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would one reverse a string?
< 1281367082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, having an effective swap algorithm would be a good start.
< 1281367171 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281367189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transfer-add a to a temp, b to a, then the temp to b
< 1281367200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a relatively fast swap
< 1281367208 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1281367439 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281367441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you null-terminate the string at each end, that might be enough.
< 1281367567 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1281367747 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281367778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Mr. Pressey. I've been expecting you.
< 1281367783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strokes his cat
< 1281367905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev a string
< 1281367906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnirts a
< 1281367909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rev
< 1281367910 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[.<]
< 1281367920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it just reads it in and prints out in the opposite order.
< 1281368221 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281368777 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting stuff
< 1281368841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"World disconnects need to be avoided at all costs"
< 1281368844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love you, AWSDK
< 1281369099 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a variant of BF that allows one to specify numbers?
< 1281369122 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, if I wanted to place 10 at a cell, instead of doing ++++++++++ I would do 10+
< 1281369132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1281369138 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10+[-]
< 1281369152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough to implement.
< 1281369180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bunch of BF abbreviations like that
< 1281369193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust writes it as (+)*10, for instance
< 1281369273 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I think I have an idea...
< 1281369280 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a for loop
< 1281369338 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if we form of statement that would go back to the intial cell?
< 1281369355 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it would go forward incrementally and at the same time go backward decrementally
< 1281369393 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an intial value, go forward once, go backwad once (and decrement once) then go forward twice and so on
< 1281369403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds about right
< 1281369413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it depends on what you're using the loop to do
< 1281369444 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initial value, forward once, backward once (decrement by one), forward twice, ...
< 1281369456 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: traversing a specified number of cells
< 1281369510 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initial value, forward once, backward once (decrement by one), forward twice, backward twice (decrement by one), forward by three, backward by three (decrement by one), ...
< 1281369519 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to implement this, though
< 1281369597 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts?
< 1281369648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is for "apply code to n consecutive cells"?
< 1281369680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case adding 1 to each cell that needs to be operated on and zeroing the next one is probably simpler.
< 1281369923 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-33-178.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281370042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you were the one asking if Star Trek (2009) was worth watching
< 1281370047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/
< 1281370138 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why people write 'Brainf*ck' when they are writing academic articles
< 1281370143 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, we are all adults...
< 1281370169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, because. We had a long discussion on this last night
< 1281370175 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?
< 1281370192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not Brainfuck specifically. Censorship in general.
< 1281370213 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1281370224 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculous, really...
< 1281370242 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if vulgar words are used artistically and tastefully, then I'm for it
< 1281370250 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are used just for the sake of being used, I'm against it
< 1281370261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was the consensus.
< 1281370273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's bf interp does the rle-style thing on output, and internally, but it doesn't allow it as input.
< 1281370274 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the code would be
< 1281370287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf +++++
< 1281370288 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined.
< 1281370294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show test
< 1281370294 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+5
< 1281370305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help def
< 1281370305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1281370319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What langs does it support?
< 1281370331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lang=bf/ul, like it says.
< 1281370369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No others so far, though I do have a standalone M-code interp I could finish and integrate in theory.
< 1281370521 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a load of this -- I just read that some rich Arab payed �9 million for a number plate that is just "1"
< 1281370561 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppoes there are indeed good ways to spend a shitload of money on
< 1281370838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Someone in Asia payed an inordinate sum for 5.
< 1281371000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much would you have to pay for ""
< 1281371047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how much does a 5-digit number cost?
< 1281371109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think a zero-length numberplate would be allowed
< 1281371139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Unlambda, is `c the current continuation?
< 1281371148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not exactly
< 1281371156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ci will get you the current continuation
< 1281371170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so c is call/cc.
< 1281371173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what c does is to grab a continuation that causes c to retroactively return with the value it's given, and pass it to c's argument
< 1281371176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, c is call/cc
< 1281371182 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1281371350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that photo circling around the internet where someone had written a SQL injection thing on a self-made car numberplate, supposedly to foil those automatical speeding-ticket camera machines. (I doubt it actually work-worked anywhere, but still.)
< 1281371431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/03/for_traffic_cameras.jpg that is.
< 1281371658 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What operating system do you guys use?
< 1281371677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every OS under the sun/
< 1281371776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, something that runs on a Sparc?
< 1281371803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, someone here probably does
< 1281371833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a SPARCstation 5 in the basement, does that count?
< 1281371845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's nice, but makes a whole lot of noise.)
< 1281371847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it does.
< 1281371964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To answer more seriously, my gut tells me the channel might be somewhat Linux-dominated, but I'm sure there are exceptions.
< 1281371994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281372455 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm in my workshop now and we use a multitude of OSes
< 1281372465 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tinkering around with Haiku OS last night
< 1281372481 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hunka junk
< 1281372846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha?
< 1281372855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have they ruined BeOS?
< 1281372891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, this channel is Linux + Windows with a few holdouts.
< 1281372894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey uses FreeBSD/
< 1281372896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FreeBSD.
< 1281372901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact Windows is very rare too.
< 1281372920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd say almost all Linux, maybe two to three windows, and ... cpressey.
< 1281372978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a handful of OS X usage.
< 1281372990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distros, not so sure; I'd expect a plurality, but not necessarily a majority, of Ubuntu, one or two Debian (fizzie and Gregor (well, sidux, but it's basically the same thing)), a few on Arch (Deewiant, AnMaster (sometimes), me),
< 1281372991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that'd be the holdouts.
< 1281372992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1281373002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two on Gentoo (pikhq and AnMaster).
< 1281373008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh yeah; jix is OS X.
< 1281373030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The common theme is, of course, UNIX.
< 1281373039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex uses OS X and Linux I think
< 1281373052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal and Slereah use Windows unless Slereah finally got Linux working properly
< 1281373058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo uses Windows because of his shitty games
< 1281373063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1281373070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*etc.
< 1281373083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The okkklo pol is Windowsy too, wasn't he?
< 1281373095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But also Ubuntu on one of his laptops.
< 1281373098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Windows now, I think.
< 1281373103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "is ... wasn't"
< 1281373109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Windows
< 1281373142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said you.
< 1281373147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that OS X laptop too, but I guess this was more "use for the most of the time" type of question.
< 1281373154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say you, coppro?
< 1281373155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably download a legit copy through the MSDNAA next year, but not because I like Windows
< 1281373155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1281373164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I like to feel important
< 1281373166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> So I'd say almost all Linux, maybe two to three windows, and ... cpressey.
< 1281373166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows
< 1281373167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1281373167 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What machines are you guys using right now?
< 1281373168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :D
< 1281373174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 uses Windows, shockingly.
< 1281373183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seriously considering having announcement handlers run in separate processes and all be run in 1 monitor
< 1281373184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Until he switches to ZZO38NUX
< 1281373185 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a Lenovo Thinkpad T60
< 1281373191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Handbuilt $300 desktop.
< 1281373193 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running Windows 7
< 1281373202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics card is shit, everything else is rather reasonable.
< 1281373203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Toshiba T150 running Arch Linux.
< 1281373217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a crappy Acer. I may get a better computer soon, but then my decisionphobia kicks in.
< 1281373217 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice
< 1281373222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I think it's a T150.
< 1281373223 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acer is quite nice, Phantom_Hoover
< 1281373226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please tell me that what I said is close enough to "single-threaded" as to seem pointless
< 1281373234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And non-dangerous
< 1281373237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13.3" screen, 1.33 GHz ultra-low voltage processor, 4 GiB of RAM.
< 1281373243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, well, yes. It's fine in all non-graphicsy respects.
< 1281373245 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember having an Acer before it was well-known in 1997
< 1281373248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1281373248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can almost decode 1080p with full AV synchronisation, so I'm happy with its performance.
< 1281373254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Microsoft optical mouse plugged in :P
< 1281373270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a T500
< 1281373270 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I no longer use Windows.
< 1281373270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This box too doesn't really have a model name, and listing all the specs sounds a bit too boresome.
< 1281373272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 TP
< 1281373279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Okay. What do you use? OS X? Linux?
< 1281373285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T500 sounds like a terminator model.
< 1281373295 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually OS X, sometimes Linux.
< 1281373301 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On eBay, there's a bunch of low-grade ARM Windows CE junk
< 1281373303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing has awful graphics but a beast of a processor (for compiling)
< 1281373305 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At around �50
< 1281373317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Yes, but Why Would You Want To.
< 1281373330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do own a ridiculously shitty "netbook"; 7" screen, ARM, and running a bastardised Debian.
< 1281373332 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for itnkering
< 1281373339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got proper Debian on it but broke it with one tiny error. Sigh.
< 1281373343 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Chinese stuff?
< 1281373348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Nah, "Ubisurfer"
< 1281373366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for DESTRUCTION
< 1281373368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the cheapest netbook ever, apparently. Comes with FREE FREE GPRS internet which /proxies to a Windows server running IE and sends back images of the page/
< 1281373370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not joking.)
< 1281373373 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharp have released a nice device they call the Netwalker, I think
< 1281373377 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the right name?
< 1281373377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost like £150 so, ha.
< 1281373385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Apparently.
< 1281373392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much hate netbooks.
< 1281373392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free GPRs? I should have thought that they were standard.
< 1281373395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Debian in my phone, too. (Okay, so it's Maemo, but close enough.)
< 1281373401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: GPRS internet :|
< 1281373403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only for proxying to IE
< 1281373411 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM-based stuff is secure
< 1281373417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, madness.
< 1281373419 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, not entirely...
< 1281373436 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never be entirely immune if you are using Mozilla on every architecture
< 1281373438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: I also own a 2006 iMac, a relatively new low-spec computer in an old, old case that I don't use...
< 1281373449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does an iPhone count as a computer?
< 1281373452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Buh?
< 1281373455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ARM have to do with security?
< 1281373459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Mozilla have to do with security?
< 1281373474 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ARM isn't mainstream
< 1281373482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, no shit, neither is Linux.
< 1281373487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nonexecutable memory is an arch-level security feature
< 1281373491 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mozilla is a mainstream browser that is a popular target
< 1281373493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the mainstream argument is bunk; it's UNIX's security model that saves it.
< 1281373496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Windows here (at work) and Linux (Ubuntu) at home.  I used to run primarily FreeBSD, but that was a few years ago now.
< 1281373497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt a RISC would have it.
< 1281373504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Once targeted you could only run native code, though, if you wanted to do anything interesting.
< 1281373508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ARM is safe anyway.
< 1281373517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's more the OS.
< 1281373527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is simply fundamentally flawed wrt its security model...
< 1281373536 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I once had an idea of a secure setup: two machines -- one for internet-based stuff and another for work and storing data.
< 1281373545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secure setup: Properly sandboxed operating system...
< 1281373560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you use Linux and don't run programs with "sudo" unless you know what they do... you're fine#
< 1281373562 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One machine would never be connected  at all
< 1281373564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$//
< 1281373573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: make that mostly fine
< 1281373586 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu makes my home laptop an unenjoyable piece of junk, but at least it runs -- I don't trust any *BSD to install on such a fragile profile of hardware as a laptop, and they all have such crud package managers.
< 1281373594 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for backing up, two seperate hard drives
< 1281373594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your security features on that OS we were discussing were... mad.
< 1281373614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I misremember, mooz had a non-internetted primary-use computer at some point; used a serial link to transfer selected data files when necessary, and never anything executable.
< 1281373614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madder than everything else.
< 1281373618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Mad in a good way, I hope :D
< 1281373623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still lose your homedir, and kernel exploits could give a root. Kernel exploits are far rare than <RANDOM APPLICATION> exploits
< 1281373629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, EVERYTHING RAN IN RING 0.
< 1281373632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's basically a blend of E's and Newspeak's security systems.
< 1281373640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yeah.
< 1281373646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just to avoid context-switching.
< 1281373650 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but even that serial link could put the machine in danger in some way
< 1281373659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: No ... it couldn't
< 1281373666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSes don't just randomly run code that comes in on ports.
< 1281373672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a bit paranoid.
< 1281373678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There could be an exploit in the serial port driver, you see!
< 1281373696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember Lumenos? He was more paranoid.
< 1281373701 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The safest way to transfer data between machines is by a USB flash stick
< 1281373703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. That's likely, you know, because serial ports are so hard to get right.
< 1281373705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much potential for error.
< 1281373715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: do you actually put this system into practice? Surely you realise how hopelessly impractical and overly paranoid it is.
< 1281373717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He always links to the HTTPS version of Wikipedia.
< 1281373728 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, alise... I abandoned the idea
< 1281373730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: Besides, haha...
< 1281373734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag: There could be an exploit in the USB driver.
< 1281373736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, THERE COULD BE A BUG IN THE USB DRIVERS!
< 1281373736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also no safer than a serial link.
< 1281373738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as much as the serial port driver.
< 1281373743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, channel-wide epiphany
< 1281373755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD... I BELIEVE IN GOD NOW!
< 1281373766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if the other computer is Windows; wasn't there that relatively recent USB-stick-driven seek-some-industrial-control-system virus?
< 1281373771 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the setup is indeed overly paranoid
< 1281373774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since those tend to be not connected to the interwebs.)
< 1281373774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be using transfer methods rooted entirely in userspace!
< 1281373778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I daresay that USB drivers are much more likely to be broken than serial port drivers.
< 1281373789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monolithic kernels are innately insecure!
< 1281373791 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better idea would be to make the internet machine ARM-based
< 1281373795 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that isn't mainstream
< 1281373798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just like ARM too much.
< 1281373802 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks
< 1281373803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks crayons in his nose
< 1281373807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You knows, OSes don't just randomly run machine code in ring 0.
< 1281373809 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it could be MIPS-based too
< 1281373810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this conversation actually taking place?
< 1281373813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x
< 1281373813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, except yours
< 1281373819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it runs Lisp.
< 1281373824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Apparently.
< 1281373830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * Phantom_Hoover sticks crayons in his nose
< 1281373835 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208|* Phantom_Hoover sticks crayons in his nose
< 1281373846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp which is compiled, hence making binary distribution the least secure thing ever.
< 1281373857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, no.
< 1281373863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only runs source Lisp, which it compiles itself.
< 1281373875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no method to execute machine code outside of the top security level.
< 1281373882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Below, it's just Lisp.
< 1281373883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with a single buffer overflow...
< 1281373888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what?
< 1281373895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In something.
< 1281373896 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the least secure programming language?
< 1281373901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's remarkably vague.
< 1281373905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, define "secure".
< 1281373906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure you've thought this exploit through.
< 1281373937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it is for an OS which hasn't been thought through.
< 1281373943 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: for instance, since there is no array bounds checking in C, buffer overflow security holes are common
< 1281373952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruitbag, assembly, then.
< 1281373964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or InsecureLang, which I shall invent now.
< 1281373967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I'm 99.9999% certain my security model works. :P
< 1281374020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of nines; is this one of the 89 % of statistics that are made up on the spot?
< 1281374028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs will allow the execution of arbitrary code if the word "foo" is typed in at any point of their execution.
< 1281374039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The traditional argument against (e.g.) Lisp and for context switching is that Lisp (or any other VM) can't get the performance of compiled code.  But the alternative is all that time taken context switching -- I haven't regularly believed the argument.
< 1281374040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The exact figure is 74%.
< 1281374056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, compiled Lisp.
< 1281374065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: My architecture was a Lisp compiler. Everything ran in ring 0, but because the Lisp had a very strong security model, it was safe.
< 1281374091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Since you could only pass Lisp to be executed, and there was a very strong total sandboxing system in place, it's even safer than typical UNIX-based OSes.
< 1281374107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Everything runs in ring 0 because one single call could end up talking to the hardware via e.g. the keyboard driver.
< 1281374117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of switching into kernel and back all the time, we just run everything in ring 0.
< 1281374143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the "safe assuming no implementation errors" definition of "safe"?
< 1281374176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it appears so.
< 1281374282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1281374284 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281374294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Lumenos was currently" --Lumenos
< 1281374306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Lumenos.
< 1281374314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an article on Lumeniki now.
< 1281374324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/Lumenikilu Fun fact: Capitalising the first letter of a word makes it plural.
< 1281374353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do link.
< 1281374363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lumeniki.referata.com/wiki/PhatTom_Hoover
< 1281374370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love him now just for the picture.
< 1281374551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly Ubuntu 11.04 will be "Niggardly Nigger"
< 1281374562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NOTE: Only one word in that sentence is hideously offensive.)
< 1281374585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you worked out a sensible way of mapping disc to memory yet?
< 1281374592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. I propose we use flux capacitors.
< 1281374624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we're going for standard x86-64 hardware, aren't we?
< 1281374665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augmented with flux capacitors.
< 1281374697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make it a TwoDucks OS, then?
< 1281374721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of mogulic misappropriation.
< 1281374735 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6393.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281374948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell allow you to define monads that aren't functors?
< 1281374962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; this is a flaw.
< 1281374972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1281374973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Monad originated before Functor, so there is not the dependency.
< 1281374997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there is a Monad instance in the standard library which is not a functor (in the mathematical sense); this is an egregrious abuse, but there you go.
< 1281375019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what sense isn't it mathematical?
< 1281375029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mathematical/functorial/
< 1281375044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it does not obey the functor laws.
< 1281375090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie.
< 1281375091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap id = id
< 1281375094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (f.g) = fmap f . fmap g
< 1281375105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i.e.
< 1281375167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jeez, Emacs depends on gconf.
< 1281375175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously?
< 1281375177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1281375181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GTK+ version, at least.
< 1281375189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes some sense.
< 1281375198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of sense that makes me want to slap people.
< 1281375214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1281375225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dammit I don't want gconf.
< 1281375257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1281375275 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek..
< 1281375305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't want GNOME components on my system; and because gconf not only requires a daemon to run at all times, but is very hard to change keys in -- you can't just edit the files, really.
< 1281375382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of course, since I don't have gconfd running, Evince won't actuall yremember my settings but will still have the daemon installed.
< 1281375547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually remember
< 1281375674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a single word that means "of note". :|
< 1281375724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable
< 1281375743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, another one.
< 1281375758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ununnotable
< 1281375768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1281375831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's a Monad instance that's not a functor? Said Monad instance is clearly not a monad.
< 1281375835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hence this is a bug.
< 1281375848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course; but a well-established one, just like Monad not being declared as Functor => Monad.
< 1281375856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which instance?
< 1281375860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People loathe to change the standard library, quite understandably.
< 1281375866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure.
< 1281375868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loathe the standard library.
< 1281375897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you read the Epitome?
< 1281375915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No.
< 1281375924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf
< 1281375946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The finest Epigram implementation there is! The only Epigram implemention there is!
< 1281375961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in beautiful Strathclyde Haskell Extension, typeset by beautiful LaTeX!
< 1281375969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be compiled with the beautiful glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation system!
< 1281375997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, said LaTeX is not microtype'd.
< 1281376000 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281376004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can /tell/?
< 1281376007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523.
< 1281376011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1281376015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How???
< 1281376024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T vs the i on the first page?
< 1281376025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Lack of margin kerning.
< 1281376027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1281376030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, page 7.
< 1281376031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that it?
< 1281376039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this debate about?
< 1281376052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pikhq has been given a PDF typeset with LaTeX
< 1281376055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the other microtypography stuff is not noticable outside of comparisons.
< 1281376062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he has been able to /recognise/ that it has not been \usepackage{microtype}d
< 1281376070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1281376070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because of a lack of a specific microtypographical correction
< 1281376078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am busy being astonished that he has managed to do this.
< 1281376090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which two lines gave it away?
< 1281376093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the character shrinking and stretching is only noticable in that it generates less ugly hyphenation
< 1281376105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what sect of Buddhism do I have to study to reach this kind of enlightenment?
< 1281376118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Look at any line with ending terminal punctuation. This is what makes it *most* obvious.
< 1281376123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Ending punctuation.
< 1281376124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character shrinking and stretching sucks a bit though, because you have to disable ligatures for it to work properly, which disables quotes etc.
< 1281376133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you do it specifically avoiding disabling quotes
< 1281376141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ligatures get disabled even at small spacings
< 1281376145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they would be beneficial
< 1281376164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But there aren't any to start with.
< 1281376170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whatever, it's just an Epigram implementation :P
< 1281376172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The letter spacing changes are also only noticable in that they generate less ugly hyphenation...
< 1281376181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said that.
< 1281376187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, letter spacing.
< 1281376188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1281376195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To prove that statement, we first show that any Tm {In, VV} p which is not a N t is not a
< 1281376196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral term. This is obvious as we are left with lambda and canonicals, which cannot be stuck.
< 1281376198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I see it there.
< 1281376199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page 9.
< 1281376205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons of it.
< 1281376211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you mean commas?
< 1281376215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; I see it there.
< 1281376224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, commas also get kerned on the edge.
< 1281376249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, though this requires more attention to detail, you would be able to see other characters getting kerned.
< 1281376256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, by the way. This has bugged me about the Epitome for ages.
< 1281376267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the Bwd constructor do?
< 1281376273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :i Bwd
< 1281376274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, none of us have actually /read/ the thing.
< 1281376275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, that "k" on the second line of the second paragraph of page 9 would be partially in the margin.
< 1281376287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See page 251.
< 1281376296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As would the "T" on the very start of the first paragraph on page 9.
< 1281376302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o_
< 1281376302 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1281376302 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /'\
< 1281376306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bwd x = B0 | Bwd x :< x
< 1281376306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1281376311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bwd x = B0 | (<:) (Bwd x) x
< 1281376315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a reverse list.
< 1281376318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also
< 1281376324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Fwd x = F0 | (:>) x (Fwd x)
< 1281376328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously the regular list structure.
< 1281376364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This always succeed." --Conor
< 1281376580 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281376677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one enable XeTeX's microtypographical support?
< 1281376712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Epigram actually used to research?
< 1281376733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dependent types.
< 1281376745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Doesn't exist yet.
< 1281376746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not actually actively being using to /research/ i.e. write papers and shit.
< 1281376746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh damn, you found the Epitome too?  I was trying to read it.  It's hilarious.
< 1281376751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more an experimental vehicle.
< 1281376758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hilarious because of Conor's humour, or what? :P
< 1281376764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell what's a technical term from type theory and what's kidding.
< 1281376770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epitome?
< 1281376778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Either you said that before or someone else thought the same.
< 1281376787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf
< 1281376789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had said it before :)
< 1281376862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"References are the key way we represent free variables, declared, defined, and deluded."
< 1281376876 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deluded is *probably* kidding.  But who knows?
< 1281376902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, wait, XeTeX does no microtypographical adjustments?
< 1281376907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's /half the point/ of XeTeX!
< 1281376970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, the point of XeTeX is to support OpenType features.
< 1281376976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, anyone know of a panelly thing for X11 that doesn't suck? A clock, systray icons, and a windows list, that's all I'm lookin' for.
< 1281376998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't yet support the microtype portions of OpenType.
< 1281377024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:25:19 <GreaseMonkey> i left it way too late to chip in but i have a friend who thinks he may have an O(n^4) algorithm for turning NP into P
< 1281377026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's full of shit.
< 1281377027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likewise, it doesn't yet support the vertical text layout portions of OpenType)
< 1281377035 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1281377036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well that's fucking useless.
< 1281377052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get Linux Libertine in ... a format that pdfTeX supports?
< 1281377099 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The fact that "I don't want GNOME components on my system" isn't regarded as a valid desire is one of the defining problems of our generation (whatever that means)... it goes along with "This is just an accretion of hacks and features that were slapped on one-by-one" not being a valid criticism of a code base.
< 1281377099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/libertine.html
< 1281377129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's part of TeX Live.
< 1281377132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{libertine}
< 1281377139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: <3
< 1281377149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does it support all the nice ligatures and stuff? I hope so.
< 1281377164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should.
< 1281377183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sir, that doesn't automatically set the text font. Whaddo I do
< 1281377207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh?
< 1281377255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \usepackage{libertine} still uses Computer Modern fonts by default.
< 1281377260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I have to do more to set it as the default font.
< 1281377262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey. "XeTeX now supports margin kerning along the same lines as pdfTeX"
< 1281377273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but this is fine too. I'm more comfortable with pdfTeX. :P
< 1281377300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that command you use in the quotation environment, name \*flushright for some *, to set the author?
< 1281377302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you do
< 1281377313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\somethingflushright Awesome Person
< 1281377348 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281377350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno.
< 1281377519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourceforge.net/projects/webadmin/forums/forum/600155/topic/3801603
< 1281377535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1281377552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:43:10 <fizzie> oerjan: Not cool, not funny, not a good comic?
< 1281377557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's secret identity is revealed
< 1281377579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gahahaha
< 1281377593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it's not that funny
< 1281377791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/august/134484/Al-Jazeera-on-college-TV-station-causes-concern
< 1281377809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.win.tue.nl/~gwoegi/P-versus-NP/argall.txt
< 1281377810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"instance Naperian Bwd where -- cheeky!"
< 1281377828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a controversial network"
< 1281377833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Al Jazeera is a controversial network?
< 1281377844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaaah ... I want to cry ...
< 1281377852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some of the comments are worse
< 1281377880 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I assume you mean that fizzie is Randall Munroe?
< 1281377885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1281377891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fizzie is sjeforgotthenumbers.
< 1281377907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a government funded college and thus should only promote the United States of America. Not a fascist idiology of anti-American hate from those who are sworn to kill all of us as they are of wiping Israel off the map. The sooner you liberal knuckle-heads understand that salient point the clearer your thought processes might become."
< 1281377910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think -- hope -- this is a joke.
< 1281377912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe, just possibly, I've just been reading the forums approximately thrice?
< 1281377923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inconceivable.
< 1281377930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare you lie>
< 1281377931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lie?
< 1281377948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I forgot to \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}. *headdesk*
< 1281377955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lie where I lay.
< 1281377968 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if that's a comment, it's not a joke.
< 1281377972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Insert Shakespearean pun.
< 1281377975 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world is full of idiots.
< 1281377977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: You know, some people /do/ use humour.
< 1281377991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that "P=NP is undecidable" proof is a joke, too, but it's not.
< 1281378002 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, proof?
< 1281378013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: alise's link
< 1281378023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. don't quite get it
< 1281378167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How does one set the default mathematics font in LaTeX?
< 1281378226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow; evince segfaults on this PDF.
< 1281378468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nice, Epigram is MITL'd.
< 1281378489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Epitome, or whatever their implementation is called, I mean.
< 1281378512 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MITL?
< 1281378515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate it when language and implementation are conflated like that.
< 1281378528 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do try to keep up, Phantom_Hoover_.
< 1281378571 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what MITL means!
< 1281378583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Their implementation has no name; you just check out it, and all the associated components, from the "Epigram" repository. The way you interact with the implementation is called the Cochon interactive theorem prover.
< 1281378602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has the "data T := (c:T); ..." stuff and the "make x : T" stuff, etc.
< 1281378621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the expressions and the implementations of these syntaxes et al. is part of the implementation.
< 1281378629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They do say "the source code of Epigram is available..."  Which always bugs me.
< 1281378633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Epitome is the name of the properly-typeset implementation.
< 1281378644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but that's {"An Epigram Implementation", Cochon, ...}
< 1281378678 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1281378688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1281378688 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what they "probably mean" but I still regard it as a bad habit.
< 1281378736 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many people can't make the distinction -- no need to encourage it through more "abuse of notation" like that.  Anyway, just my pet peeve.
< 1281378790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gibbers at Reddit being down
< 1281378878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it... isn't.
< 1281378917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not anymore
< 1281378966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, there is more to life than Reddit.
< 1281378995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.reddit.com works, reddit.com doesn't
< 1281379175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the LaTeX command to set not initial line indentation of a paragraph, but indentation of all following lines?
< 1281379266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Spivak
< 1281379282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The best way is to draw pictures; but this requires a chapter all by itself."
< 1281379343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that from?
< 1281379383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his Calculus textbook
< 1281379389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he's talking about functions)
< 1281379540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenEq t = (|id ~ () (% tokenFilter (== t) %)|)
< 1281379557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen that syntax in Haskell before... is this SHE stuff?
< 1281379603 0 :relet1!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281379720 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1281379935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \usepackage[libertine} doesn’t do the “Qu” ligature.
< 1281379958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1281379959 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281379962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sucks.
< 1281380053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So do you really use FreeBSD as a day-to-day OS?
< 1281380083 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I used to.  Meaning, no.  But I have, in the past.
< 1281380110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :(
< 1281380125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "Qu" ligature?
< 1281380155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upside: the kernel is actually well written.  Downside: all BSD package managers suck.  Java support was almost nonexistent.  The userland is still largely GNU anyway.  Etc, etc.
< 1281380212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What do you use now?
< 1281380216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In Libertine, yes.
< 1281380226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Q’s tail flows underneath the u.
< 1281380229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I see it?
< 1281380237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the Linux Libertine font installed?
< 1281380241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281380247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to it on IRC. XChat, yes?
< 1281380253 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ubuntu.  Sadly.  Can I call it Ubuntoad?  That, and Cygwin-under-Windows-7.
< 1281380280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Switched to it?
< 1281380291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1281380295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Query.
< 1281380297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Quite how we are to perform this feat, I am not certain,” admitted the dean.
< 1281380299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coool.
< 1281380303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q Q Q Qu
< 1281380305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q u
< 1281380316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This font is indeed cool.
< 1281380335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q​u <-- with zero width space inbetween
< 1281380338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q​u Qu
< 1281380343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is how it apperas in LaTeX.
< 1281380346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is a pretty nice typeface.
< 1281380374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit too... subtle for freetype to render properly, but all other fonts suck more, so I’m using it on IRC.
< 1281380374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a typography illiterate, I can confirm thi.
< 1281380389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like the capital “M”. The little slant! It’s so cute.
< 1281380397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also: “Th” is a ligature.
< 1281380403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1281380410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type “T”, then “h”. Note the transformation.
< 1281380421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T​h Th <-- Zero-width spaces to the rescue.
< 1281380425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have days of fun with this!
< 1281380437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​i fi <-- The fi ligature.
< 1281380446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​l fl <-- The fl ligature.
< 1281380454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f​f ff <-- The ff ligature.
< 1281380459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those are a bit more subtle.)
< 1281380464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the unligatured fi is hideous.)
< 1281380479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also nice is Biolinium, Libertine’s sans-serif sister.
< 1281380486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this.
< 1281380493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1281380503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- Thank Libertine for this.
< 1281380508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is pretty bizarre; does it show up as wavy lines for anyone else?
< 1281380564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1281380574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's not much help.
< 1281380599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stays as wavy lines in my terminal.
< 1281380640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's a black circle for me
< 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○        ○
< 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             
< 1281380665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○               ○
< 1281380672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         
< 1281380673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○                  ○
< 1281380677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         
< 1281380678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○                  ○
< 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               
< 1281380693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○                  ○
< 1281380697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            
< 1281380698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○                    ○
< 1281380702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            
< 1281380703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yayy
< 1281380710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :○                      ○
< 1281380711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            
< 1281380712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1281380714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfect!
< 1281380716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The face is complete.
< 1281380848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no it isn't.
< 1281380854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. Why isn't it?
< 1281380856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nose is off-centre.
< 1281380865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks centred to me.
< 1281380880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“I wish I had some sort of XChat plugin that properifies my quote marks.”
< 1281380886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And makes -- into a real em-dash.
< 1281380892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because you're a FASCIST.
< 1281380897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compose key?
< 1281380901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Is not automatic.
< 1281380902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there for a reason.
< 1281380911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I can just make substitutions for ``, '' and --.
< 1281380912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome!
< 1281380981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Testing.''
< 1281380982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaat.
< 1281380983 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1281380986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it needs to be a word.
< 1281380988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supremely lame.
< 1281381101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you’re meant to use an en-dash rather than a hyphen when it’s an adjective attached to multiple words, e.g. “Civil War–era”.
< 1281381105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least according to this random website.
< 1281381169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't seem to back this up.
< 1281381207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's something that varies from style guide to style guide.
< 1281381254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, Unicode can't mark up superscript-th, for all its useless superscripts and subscripts.
< 1281381322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Clearly, the preferred usage should be {Civil War}-era.
< 1281381327 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281381355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clearly. :P
< 1281381716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a programming language! Stat!
< 1281381722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C
< 1281381730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhilst:
< 1281381731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity
< 1281381736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No! Another one! Stat!
< 1281381747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theory of relativity is a mathematical system that allows no exceptions. It is heavily promoted by liberals who like its encouragement of relativism and its tendency to mislead people in how they view the world.[1] Here is a list of 24 counterexamples: any one of them shows that the theory is incorrect.
< 1281381778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The action-at-a-distance of quantum entanglement.[5]
< 1281381779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The action-at-a-distance by Jesus, described in John 4:46-54.]]
< 1281381796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Juxtaposing quantum entanglement with Jesus for the same purpose: Hilarity defined.
< 1281381801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: D
< 1281381814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You're just going through the alphabet!
< 1281381855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B is a programming language too!
< 1281381862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is E!
< 1281381864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And A+!
< 1281381870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And M! If you use that name instead of MUMPS.
< 1281382191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that article is one of the funnier ones.
< 1281382218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have "Black holes" in the list of liberal pseudoscience
< 1281382398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: fax uses conservapedia
< 1281382404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the insanity & the wikipedia hatred
< 1281382463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frank you make an interesting point, and I have an open mind about it. But I'm not entirely convinced. When the woman cured herself of bleeding and Jesus felt power leaving him, that sounds more like heat than light. And for heat to travel virtually instantaneously (or at the speed of light) WOULD violate the theory of relativity.--Andy Schlafly 20:48, 5 January 2010 (EST)
< 1281382501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know that WM I described to you?
< 1281382590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On this site we encourage *thinking* in a logical way.--Andy Schlafly"
< 1281382702 0 :cal153!~cal@208.181.171.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281382926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1281382940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew the government could be this helpful
< 1281383233 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281383366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ?
< 1281383426 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281383683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1281383736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:15:21 <fruitbag> Get a load of this -- I just read that some rich Arab payed .9 million for a number plate that is just "1"
< 1281383743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:20:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Meh. Someone in Asia payed an inordinate sum for 5.
< 1281383758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think those were the same country, it was in a newspaper here
< 1281383786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qatar or Kuwait or something like that
< 1281383885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm abu dhabi
< 1281383897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qatar is a bad name for a country because it does not utilise the Qu ligature.
< 1281383904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(part of UAE)
< 1281383909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, apart from the previously mentioned panos recently I took some obviously non-pano photos with my phone from a moving car on the way home (I don't have the google setup sadly!). http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/ if you are interested. If you can recommend some software to generate a minimalistic static gallery page I would be happy. Nothing that wouldn't wor
< 1281383909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k in links2 -g that is.
< 1281383965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used a Java thing for a static album dealie, but I'm not sure I'd go and recommend it.
< 1281384009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1281384039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally the top google hit when i tried to find it was a blog saying it was saudi arabia, but i am 100% sure that is wrong (and a later google hit said abu dhabi)
< 1281384041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in *; do echo "<p><img src=$x>" >>index.html; done
< 1281384049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also seems to have become confusing, with some sort of free hosting plan and iPhone apps and whatnot.
< 1281384067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The do-it-yourself solution is always a possibility, too.
< 1281384116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that involves a lot of work I'm not willing to spend
< 1281384122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the "thumbnails with bash-oneliner of convert, ls | sed to create the album page" approach in my case.
< 1281384140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so for now wget -r -np http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/ and eog on the resulting directory
< 1281384174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just clickety-click in the browser.
< 1281384183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that involves more clicking ;P
< 1281384205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two clicks for next image
< 1281384223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/trip_home/Bild032.jpg might need some explanation...
< 1281384224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's O(n), anyway. (Or, well, I guess eog can do some sort of automatic-advance slideshow, maybe.)
< 1281384243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the English word for hemvärnet
< 1281384247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't mewtwo some sort of pokeymon?
< 1281384249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that building used to be that
< 1281384259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, I didn't decide naming scheme of servers
< 1281384272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
< 1281384281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD
< 1281384297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <cpressey> Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
< 1281384301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1281384304 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :209|<cpressey> Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
< 1281384304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: <alise> for x in *; do echo "<p><img src=$x>" >>index.html; done
< 1281384309 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no!
< 1281384314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as the domain name implies it is an irc network (you wouldn't like it I think). I'm an oper there. Not the one deciding on naming scheme though.
< 1281384323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1281384324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cpressey> Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
< 1281384324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1281384329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, needs some </p> and such
< 1281384331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good idea
< 1281384332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope
< 1281384335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: <p> is perfectly valid
< 1281384338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without unterminated </p>)
< 1281384340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't do HTML5, sorry
< 1281384345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in HTML4.1 Strict
< 1281384351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't do that either
< 1281384354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He only speaks XML, you see.
< 1281384355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer xhtml
< 1281384361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, but that's just because he's fucking stupid.
< 1281384369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually S-Expressions too, but no browser does that
< 1281384379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may be crazy, but I'm with them on the "black holes are probably a complete fiction" platform.
< 1281384402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: x_x
< 1281384404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<irc:message recipient="#alise">How so&interrobang;</irc:message>
< 1281384405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that doesn't explain the evidence for them in the form of gravitational lenses and so on
< 1281384411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That is... vanishingly unlikely.
< 1281384438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... I think I just disproved the Riemann hypothesis.
< 1281384440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1082326.txt?key=kt6ybknat9le7iodnlxzxw
< 1281384442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You heard it here first.
< 1281384453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P!=NP, !Riemann... a lot of interesting theorems being proved recently!
< 1281384481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I want to see this published in a peer-reviewed paper first :P
< 1281384493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Published in a paper?
< 1281384505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Gravitational lensing" is a complete *guess* as to "why the sky appears like that there".
< 1281384507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, if you actually *proved* it...
< 1281384517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You fail at terminology.
< 1281384523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: black holes not actually existing as singularities isn't that unlikely
< 1281384524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, disproved it
< 1281384526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I didn't; I disproved it.
< 1281384531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still
< 1281384534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't publish things in papers.
< 1281384537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I used proved in the old sense
< 1281384537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You publish papers in journals.
< 1281384546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err right
< 1281384548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo
< 1281384550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A peer-reviewed newspaper!
< 1281384561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A peer-reviewed toilet paper.
< 1281384576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Men of Science only use that stuff.
< 1281384579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, but black holes altogether?
< 1281384583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be able to publish in any journal of your choice if your disproof passes peer review
< 1281384590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but I was announcing it here first.
< 1281384596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people can take a look at it and maybe point out flaws
< 1281384604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm submitting it to Annals of Mathematics tomorrow if all goes well.
< 1281384610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure oerjan can back me up.
< 1281384610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, my math is not nearly up to scratch in that area
< 1281384613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://pastie.org/1082326.txt?key=kt6ybknat9le7iodnlxzxw
< 1281384632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and yes oerjan could probably help
< 1281384632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it might also be that horizon never actually forms (it's apparently consistent to assume that happens infinitely far in the future from our viewpoint, after all)
< 1281384642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the horizon
< 1281384668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, speaking of photography, I took a minute of handsfree video from the Assembly main hall, in the interests of trying out the panotools-driven time-lapse stabilization trick to make it un-shakey. It's unfortunately a pretty boring sight; just a bunch of flashing lights.
< 1281384682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: any comments on my disproof?
< 1281384705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm is this a constructive proof? As in you can show a specific value it is wrong for, or provide a way to construct such a value?
< 1281384720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Erm, the Riemann hypothesis states that such a value exists.
< 1281384729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, wait.
< 1281384731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean.
< 1281384733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My disproof specifies that.
< 1281384742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is not a constructive proof, but then a great many mathematical proofs aren't
< 1281384750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1281384759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructing a value is probably possible but I have no idea what kind of techniques you'd use
< 1281384764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is a simple proof by contradiction.
< 1281384764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't it state that *all* _non-trivial_ 0 lies on a specific line
< 1281384771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I handle this.
< 1281384782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A trivial 0 = negative even number.
< 1281384787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1281384808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1281384815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the specific details
< 1281384827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway what about that P!=NP proof?
< 1281384858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, what about it?
< 1281384871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is it correct, of course.
< 1281384876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I assume you've already grokked all about it!
< 1281384890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, who made it and who checked it
< 1281384894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 100 pages of pure math.
< 1281384898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was authored by a competent computer scientist working at a high position in a large coroporation, it was sent to a bunch of high-profile computer scientists to review; it got published not by the author, but by someone else (so he didn't just post a non-peer-reviewed paper)
< 1281384911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it hasn't been conclusively checked yet.
< 1281384914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possibly true -- he's not a crank -- but probably flawed but useful.
< 1281384921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say however I will be less surprised if it is proven that P!=NP than if P=NP is proven.
< 1281384923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was only published by "accident".
< 1281384934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=NP doesn't mean much, the constant factor could be G_64.
< 1281384939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1281384951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it *could* also be quite small
< 1281384962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could, yes, but that's the kind of assumption I'm not willing to make.
< 1281384964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and did it stand up to other people checking it.
< 1281384980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well indeed. I'm not assuming it is small.
< 1281385004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's only 3 days since it first appeared.  experts are discussing it as we speak.
< 1281385010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not assuming it is large either
< 1281385022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, who?
< 1281385023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the godel's letter blog had a post on it today
< 1281385026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1281385034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, the suitable track record of Vinay Deolalikar and his proof,  which stated that P was smaller than NP for infinite time Turing  Machines, lessen the chances of errors."
< 1281385035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it passed outside this channel
< 1281385037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing
< 1281385067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um that P != NP proof has nothing to do with #esoteric
< 1281385067 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite time?  Hello!
< 1281385073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to me that looks slightly incoherent
< 1281385086 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No no!  Vinay is a long-time esolang enthusiast!
< 1281385088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"“But enough question-dodging!” you exclaim.  “Is the proof right or isn’t it?  C’mon, it’s been like three hours  since you first saw it—what’s taking you so long?”  Well, somehow, I haven’t yet found the opportunity to study this 103-page manuscript in detail."
< 1281385094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there are lots of variations of P vs. NP question
< 1281385100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh thought it did
< 1281385100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um you serious? :D
< 1281385103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1281385115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...
< 1281385130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already this: http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=456 -- "If Vinay Deolalikar is awarded the $1,000,000 Clay Millennium Prize for his proof of P≠NP, then I, Scott Aaronson, will personally supplement his prize by the amount of $200,000. I’m dead serious—and I can afford it about as well as you’d think I can."
< 1281385148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether to install a Flash version with a known security vulnerability.
< 1281385149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I thought someone in here claimed something about working on a secret P?=NP proof
< 1281385153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it agur?
< 1281385157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: he _could_ be from here, not everyone here has revealed their real name
< 1281385160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ... hmm ... yes.
< 1281385160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling
< 1281385167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh that's cpressey :D
< 1281385182 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's *my claim* that he invented the following languages: Spray, SixBucks, and KomputerNO.
< 1281385183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right, I initially thought we talked about that proof
< 1281385197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i sincerely doubt his real name is something indian
< 1281385197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have been on holiday, I haven't been able to keep up with news
< 1281385206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you forgot Findimate
< 1281385207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, only been on from slow hotel wlan a few hours every day
< 1281385223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And "Six Reversed Quail Sausages".
< 1281385246 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "there are lots of variations of P vs. NP question" -- but I've *read* the def'n from the Millenium Prize committee, and I don't remember anything about "infinite time".
< 1281385248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise ponders whether to install a Flash version with a known security vulnerability. <-- why not go for a secure one... oh wait that is unlikely to exist
< 1281385288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://logcom.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/5/577
< 1281385308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two co-authors
< 1281385318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they retracted the native 64-bit version
< 1281385321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for linux
< 1281385328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so the only available one is an older one with some known vulns
< 1281385330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1281385335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nspluginwrapper?
< 1281385338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm hideously irresponsible :)
< 1281385339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was called
< 1281385347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: has some mouse click issues and i think AV sync is a bit wonky
< 1281385355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes/often mouse clicks won't register)
< 1281385367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, youtube? I find youtube-dl and mplayer or vlc gives better result anyway
< 1281385374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the the last version
< 1281385386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the one in ubuntu and arch is too old to work with youtube atm
< 1281385386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: by "variation" i mean other questions that are slightly different (often by adding an oracle)
< 1281385392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ... the OS X users have a lovely browser plugin that replaces YouTube videos with an embedded native video player.
< 1281385398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a single file to download
< 1281385400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think there's anything similar for other browsers.
< 1281385400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chmod +x
< 1281385437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Shame, too.
< 1281385446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Flash player for Youtube sucks ass.
< 1281385448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, the article is sloppily referring to his *previous* (circa 2003) proof about infinite-time TMs.  He has maybe extended the results to finite-time.
< 1281385455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's some sort of "youtube enabler" for Firefox Mobile on N900 -- which I don't think did Flash properly, unlike the default browser -- that might do the same trick; haven't tried it.
< 1281385456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll WRITE ONE! Okay, does anyone know if Greasemonkey is available for Midori?
< 1281385469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has user script support. Hoorj!
< 1281385471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact one of the main known obstacles to proving P ? NP is that the proof must not work if you add an oracle, because it's known that some oracles have P^O = NP^O and some have P^O != NP^O
< 1281385472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Youtube without Flash Auto"
< 1281385475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1281385477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, what a coinkydink.
< 1281385491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ @description    Adds links below the Youtube video to (a) download the video (HD .mp4 file, no converters are used, no external sites) (b) view the video with an embedded external player (like mplayerplug-in or the totem plugin)
< 1281385495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer yay I like mplayer.
< 1281385521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community/gecko-mediaplayer 0.9.9.2-1
< 1281385522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Browser plugin that uses gnome-mplayer to play media in a web browser
< 1281385522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes please
< 1281385528 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I never understood why you cannot simply say "I have a proof that P != NP when there is no oracle"
< 1281385535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mplayer's plugin thing had some real issues way back then. But I'm sure it's been improved in the last five or so years.
< 1281385583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "because no one thought of doing that"?
< 1281385600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also say "I have a 'natural' proof that P != NP -- therefore certain one-way functions do [not?] exist" (or however that goes)
< 1281385619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: of course you can, the problem is that _most_ methods in complexity theory allow you to add an arbitrary oracle to a proof
< 1281385649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: heh
< 1281385650 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have no doubt we're using crap methods, is the thing :/
< 1281385687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: natural proofs of P!=NP don't work, no?
< 1281385699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well hopefully this guy found a non-crap method :)
< 1281385703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notably, assuming one-way functions exist, these proofs cannot separate the complexity classes P and NP."
< 1281385704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1281385704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah
< 1281385714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you look at alise's disprof of Riemann
< 1281385718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprof!
< 1281385723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disproof
< 1281385727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...it seems to introduce some thought-provoking new ideas, particularly a  connection between statistical physics and the first-order logic  characterization of NP."  from Scott Aaronson's blog.
< 1281385733 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he's using physics -- oi.
< 1281385738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is.
< 1281385739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i looked at the page, then my brain promptly ran away screaming
< 1281385740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistical physics.
< 1281385744 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Then -- oi.
< 1281385749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oui.
< 1281385779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is "statistical physics"?
< 1281385805 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope it's mathematically defined.
< 1281385826 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We measured the running time of several Turing machines and concluded that..."
< 1281385850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw that disproof you made was done by some proof checker right?
< 1281385858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a certain structure to it
< 1281385861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope
< 1281385865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1281385873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i used a CAS to simplify the expressions though
< 1281385882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the proof checker in question is Alise, maybe
< 1281385887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway yeah I can't help you check it due to my brain also running away screaming
< 1281385896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away screaming for effect
< 1281385900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1281385918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_physics
< 1281385925 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe you should take it to ##math or whatever it is.   (Haha.)
< 1281385958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you see, and I hesistate to point this out but, you see, um well, Turing machines aren't physical, er, objects, you know?
< 1281385972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Presumably it's using some other facet of statistical physics ...
< 1281385973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but if the proof was that short I strongly suspect someone else would have found it by now. Of course it could be correct, but you shouldn't be disappointed if it isn't
< 1281385977 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mathematical results from statistical physics* I have no problem with.
< 1281385984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I won't be, I'm just interested.
< 1281385989 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are properly *in Statistics*, not physics.
< 1281385999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway there is /some/ evidence to suggest that a simple proof of Fermat's Last Theorem is possible
< 1281386005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. proof sketches with just a few "hard" holes
< 1281386007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g.
< 1281386018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: apparently random SAT instances are involved in the proof, i recall
< 1281386034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That sounds extremely likely.
< 1281386053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure. No one has found that yet though. Maybe those holes takes a lot of stuff to fill?
< 1281386059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perhaps.
< 1281386096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Shannon had some proof a long time ago that "a randomly constructed formula has a big circuit", but for some reason that doesn't prove P != NP, although it totally should.
< 1281386133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I should totally be writing unit tests for my huge-ass infrastructure refactor right now.
< 1281386260 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er
< 1281386271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> IIRC there is a Monad instance in the standard library which is not a functor (in the mathematical sense); this is an egregrious abuse, but there you go.
< 1281386276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well do I think Scott Aaronson can afford to give away 200 grand?
< 1281386288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functor law follows from the monad laws, surely
< 1281386293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*laws
< 1281386297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s
< 1281386327 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshaw.  Laws.
< 1281386355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean it must also break a monad law, then
< 1281386368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1281386371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I really don't recall
< 1281386433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM f x = x >>= return . f
< 1281386454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= return . id = x >>= return = x, monad law
< 1281386497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1281386539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >>= return . (f . g) = x >>= \t -> return (f (g t))  there has to be some way to use the third monad law there
< 1281386540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If P≠NP is proved, then to whatever extent theoretical computer science  continues to exist at all, it will have a very different character."
< 1281386558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... the proof DESTROYS THEORETICAL COMPUTER SCIENCE?  Bitchen!
< 1281386561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1281386572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaa
< 1281386587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth will it change anything, it's the status quo
< 1281386611 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a friggin' narrow view of "theoretical computer science".
< 1281386617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He thinks the proof will need so unbelievably earth-shaking paradigm-shifting insights, TCS will be all about it for the rest of time.
< 1281386621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Goodness, midori is a nice browser.
< 1281386626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: x_x
< 1281386628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Who said that?
< 1281386637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, enable the Customise Toolbar extension to get rid of that irritating Sidepanel button.
< 1281386638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Himself, paraphrased a bit by myself.
< 1281386640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has... A few handy features, and nothing stupid getting in the way.
< 1281386643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I did that.
< 1281386655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x >>= (return . g)) >>= (return . f) = x >>= \t -> (return (g t)) >>= return . f
< 1281386661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is Scott Aaronson, if that wasn't clear.
< 1281386670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah
< 1281386703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := x >>= \t -> (return . f) (g t) = x >>= return . f . g, Q.E.D.
< 1281386707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. He's usually so smart.
< 1281386754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It was the immediately preceding bit from cpressey's quotation: "P≠NP is exactly the ‘expected’ answer! But proving that expected answer has been the central goal of the field for 40 years—not so much (in my opinion) because the answer itself is in serious doubt, as because of how much will need to be learned about computation on the way to the proof."
< 1281386759 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate comments.
< 1281386781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments are the peanut gallery of the internet.
< 1281386801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just plain nuts.
< 1281386821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha,
< 1281386822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ha.
< 1281387045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why won't mplayer wooork
< 1281387302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only there were ways to disable some other features.
< 1281387307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the URL completion.
< 1281387307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Like?
< 1281387309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no want.
< 1281387311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like it :(
< 1281387341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to configure hardware audio volume from Linux?
< 1281387344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in literal speaker volume,
< 1281387346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, least irritating browser...
< 1281387346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*volume.
< 1281387359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought you liked Conkeror?
< 1281387362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, least irritating 'normal' one.
< 1281387380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do, but its UI sometimes clashes with sites.
< 1281387587 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1281387648 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Since you used a theorem prover to help reformat your proof -- why not use it to check it?
< 1281387835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like how WebKit doesn't suck, in contrast to Gecko.
< 1281388016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAAAH
< 1281388029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I didn't use a theorem prover.
< 1281388041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Midori blithely ignores fontconfig. I have no idea how to get it to use an un-suck font for Japanese.
< 1281388042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no existing theorem prover has a complete enough formalisation of the reals to have the zeta function.
< 1281388110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/bipbopbipbop
< 1281388119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best channel ever
< 1281388141 0 :fruitbag!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1281388160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two Minute Sync Test Not Actually Rotated
< 1281388161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or maybe it's rotated 360 degrees! How will you know? (Hint: use complex analysis.)"
< 1281388205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, AV sync works.
< 1281388225 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But surely you could pack about half of it into a lemma that only needs a rudimentary understanding of the reals, and auto-prove that, leaving the remainder easier to check.
< 1281388237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for OSSv4!
< 1281388247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe not.
< 1281388249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you have to manually prove
< 1281388252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just checks the proof
< 1281388255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in an awkward format)
< 1281388262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Turns out theorem provers are a bit of a bitch. Anyway, my disproof is not very long.
< 1281388264 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know - you've already *done* that though
< 1281388265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be hard to verify.
< 1281388270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I haven't.
< 1281388278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used a computer to simplify some simple expressions.
< 1281388279 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have you written, if not a proof?
< 1281388286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a proof.
< 1281388293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in the format it'd accept, which accepts no handwaving at all.
< 1281388318 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm only suggesting you rewrite (as much of it as you can) in that format.
< 1281388349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could just persuade oerjan to take a look at it. :)
< 1281388388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, handwaving isn't really accepted anywhere in math. It isn't like people try to routinely hand-wave use of not yet proved hypotheses and so on. Oh wait, they are.
< 1281388400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handwaving is very much accepted for trivial things.
< 1281388409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think Wiles' FLT proof would have been simple if it proved every single thing it stated?
< 1281388424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I know. I was joking
< 1281388430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, exactly, if my disproof is correct that's quite a bit of mathematics out the door...
< 1281388436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much stuff just implicitly depends on the Riemann hypothesis.
< 1281388644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed.
< 1281388688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I would say the chances of it having a small but important flaw is more than 50%, considering how much time has been spent on trying to prove or disprove it
< 1281388708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiles' first proof had a major flaw, but it was corrected.
< 1281388717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1281388759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually he had to redo large parts to fix it iirc
< 1281388833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large but not immense.
< 1281388838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1281388851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but that is only because the complete proof was huge
< 1281388884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I've got HTML 5 video on youtube working.
< 1281388903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Me too; with what?
< 1281388908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc it proved one or two other open problems that it then used in the "main" proof. That kind of gives you some "modularity".
< 1281388909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean YouTube's HTML5 support?
< 1281388914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got it working with mplayer. Nyaah.
< 1281388914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youtube's HTML5 support.
< 1281388917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It sucks.
< 1281388930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest using the YouTube Without Flash Auto userscript (with some tweaking).
< 1281388934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works fine with Midori (with some tweaking).
< 1281388937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linky?
< 1281388944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports native (likely mplayer), VLC and HTML 5.
< 1281388945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or pastebin of tweaks)
< 1281388948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll pastie you my updated version.
< 1281388955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet.
< 1281388984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, just using <video> instead of Flash is so much nicer on the CPU.
< 1281388984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/iJHe
< 1281388989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enable the relevant extension, then copy to:
< 1281388994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.local/share/midori/scripts
< 1281389013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It puts some crap below the video, but load a video, click Preferences, set preferred quality to highest, and select the player of your choice.
< 1281389018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using native since HTML 5 doesn't work for me.
< 1281389043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, one more modification:
< 1281389043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(haveFlash) {
< 1281389044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	linkViewFlash = ' &diams; <a class="link" id="restoreFlash">View Flash</a>';
< 1281389044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1281389044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove this.
< 1281389091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then load a video, click Preferences, set default quality to highest, select player, save.
< 1281389096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila.
< 1281389128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you get Midori's HTML5 player to work?
< 1281389144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed gstreamer-plugin-faad , and the audio worked.
< 1281389154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other gstreamer plugins I already had installed.
< 1281389201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Still, just using <video> instead of Flash is so much nicer on the CPU. <-- youtube-dl + mplayer or vlc is quite nice too
< 1281389240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-bad gstreamer0.10-{bad,ugly}-plugins
< 1281389241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring it on.
< 1281389247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but this embeds it automatically in the page.
< 1281389258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also that one doesn't seem to support the 4k format
< 1281389263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out people usually watch insignificant videos on YouTube not worth waiting for the download.
< 1281389265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the script I meant
< 1281389267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 4k? You mean that ridiculously over-HD thing?
< 1281389270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, youtube-dl supports it
< 1281389271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, nobody uses that.
< 1281389274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, so I have it installed, but it's not... Workin.
< 1281389279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mhm.
< 1281389287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest installing the mplayer browser plugin then setting it to native.
< 1281389291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, I tried it. vlc told me it had to disable Xv due to only supporting up to 2048x2048 XD
< 1281389291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or installing VLC then setting it to VLC.
< 1281389298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Aaah.
< 1281389307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note: The mplayer plugin is a bit shit.
< 1281389333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well HTML5 now works with very staticy audio and shit.
< 1281389340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just installing VLC>
< 1281389342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*VLC.
< 1281389354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also what about TEXTp?
< 1281389357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1281389365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm iirc they dropped that, right?
< 1281389379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Doesn't appear to be in portage.
< 1281389379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it still supported?
< 1281389382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it was an April Fool's joke, obviously.
< 1281389386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What, VLC?
< 1281389394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer-plugin
< 1281389404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but since it was, you know, working, why wouldn't they just leave it there, but somewhat hidden
< 1281389405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's because it requires "Gnome" mplayer and crap.
< 1281389409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Strong recommendation of VLC here.
< 1281389410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like have to use fmt=whatever
< 1281389414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manually
< 1281389415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the url
< 1281389415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs vlc
< 1281389425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You might need to install a separate VLC plugin package.
< 1281389427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in any list
< 1281389435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Server resources. etc.
< 1281389442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah good point
< 1281389458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I think it's Google policy to erase April Fool's jokes, presumably so they don't get clogged down with the baggage of years of them.
< 1281389464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least de facto Google policy.
< 1281389486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually they left tisp and such around
< 1281389493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but with a note on the top of the page
< 1281389494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just static HTML.
< 1281389496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying it was a joke
< 1281389498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true
< 1281389504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still an 1 april joke
< 1281389509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google already have five billion pages on their website. :P
< 1281389534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know tiling WMs that put little title bars above their windows? Do they reparent?
< 1281389535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm actually http://www.google.com/tisp/ doesn't have such a banner
< 1281389612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Probably.
< 1281389626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you do it without reparenting? There are non-reparenting tiling WMs, so...
< 1281389633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know dwm does very small window borders.
< 1281389636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a title bar isn't much more than that.
< 1281389641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quite likes having a little Flashblock userscript...
< 1281389687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is the VLC plugin not working...
< 1281389709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, it crashes Midori.
< 1281389736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1281389789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful.
< 1281389835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process 15183: arguments to dbus_connection_close() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 2833.
< 1281389835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.
< 1281389835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  D-Bus not built with -rdynamic so unable to print a backtrace
< 1281389905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is indeed the error I get when running Midori.
< 1281389946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. The HTML-5 version of videos is generally higher *quality*.
< 1281389962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash sucks so much it makes the video blocky.
< 1281389972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So your HTML5 player works??
< 1281390002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Just having Youtube's HTML5 support on works fine.
< 1281390012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that script.
< 1281390025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does mine, apparently.
< 1281390052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it doesn't work well if it's going to *scale*...
< 1281390060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the scaling used is still naive.
< 1281390080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The volume control is hideously broken.
< 1281390089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't reflect the volume you click.
< 1281390108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EWORKSFORME
< 1281390125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, you can't drag the volume control.
< 1281390134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also.. the player doesn't show what's buffering.
< 1281390137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EWORKSFORME
< 1281390154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EYOUSUCK
< 1281390159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem (Shannon): With probability at least 1 - o(1), a random function f:{0,1}n → {0,1} requires a circuit of size Ω(2n/n).
< 1281390160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGIMMEYOURBOX
< 1281390162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, any video that's been put up by an "official" source still demands Flash for no good reason.
< 1281390168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XITHbsUUlYI
< 1281390171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try this in 1080p.
< 1281390172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epic fail.
< 1281390182 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry - should be 2^n/n
< 1281390192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's hawt.
< 1281390214 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That *particular* adjective I would honestly never have occurred to me.
< 1281390220 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGRAMMAR
< 1281390225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it /is/ hawt!
< 1281390245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, it doesn't show the damned buffering right.
< 1281390252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: See, I told you.
< 1281390265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it actually decodes the video in realtime. That's a nice improvement.
< 1281390271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Proposal: Userscript that, on encountering a YouTube page, removes the whole page and replaces it with a native player. Nothing else. Nothing.
< 1281390277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a download link.
< 1281390308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right.
< 1281390355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> pikhq: Can you do it without reparenting? There are non-reparenting tiling WMs, so... <-- what is wrong with reparenting?
< 1281390359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that theorem is beautiful, where's the proof?
< 1281390374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WM crashes -> everything crashes; change WM -> everything has to close; + more complex code
< 1281390409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens ehird.tar.
< 1281390414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the purpose of extracting files!)
< 1281390419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so um twm isn't reparenting? Because when I initially installed slackware I once did killall twm; kwin &
< 1281390429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows didn't close
< 1281390431 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: one awful place, but the first i found, has a sketch: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aqregIHR3j8J:www.cs.caltech.edu/~umans/cs151/lec6.ppt+shannon+random+formula+circuit&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
< 1281390445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i deleted them lmao.
< 1281390445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^fShannon on that page
< 1281390459 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"   frustrating fact: almost    all functions require huge    circuits "
< 1281390463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore P != NP
< 1281390464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1281390480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, I know)
< 1281390482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my duck is evil
< 1281390484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore P = NP
< 1281390504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Startrek Voyager S01 S07 Complete » tv shows star trek video television
< 1281390506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst torrent.
< 1281390523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd watch
< 1281390532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Star.Trek-All.11.Films.1080p.Bluray.x264.AC3-5.1-PeN"
< 1281390533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gawp*
< 1281390542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A half-bad torrent?
< 1281390544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They missed out Galaxy Quest, though.
< 1281390552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's Voyager. It's ALL bad.
< 1281390558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the films one
< 1281390565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries mplayer with youtube-dl -g in hopes of streaming youtube videos with mplayer
< 1281390574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://torrentz.com/be85b3578f87c5dc739ad72cceeb3c84d1caecd1 A lot of seeders.
< 1281390581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'd refuse the last one, seeing as it's not in original Bl-Ray format.
< 1281390593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Erm, just give it the get_video URL.
< 1281390608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is .m2ts the raw stuff from the Blu-Ray?
< 1281390611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, right?
< 1281390658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: get_video URL?
< 1281390674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, .m2ts should be the transport strem from a Blu-Ray.
< 1281390682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the thing all these things pass to the video
< 1281390687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the url of the actual .flv/whatever
< 1281390689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1281390692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the thing all these things pass to the player
< 1281390696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just mplayer 'er up
< 1281390698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah.
< 1281390702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Blu-Ray does H.264 too, right?
< 1281390709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1281390721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And if a film's released in .m2ts, it won't be released in H.264 too, will it?
< 1281390757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m2ts is the MPEG2 transport stream, which is used for Blu-Ray.
< 1281390779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can contain an H.264 bitstream.
< 1281390782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah.
< 1281390788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I tell, without downloading, which a film was released in?
< 1281390791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some online database?
< 1281390799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia?
< 1281390809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently VC-1 is also a popular Blu-Ray codec.
< 1281390828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Wikipedia.
< 1281390828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film) has nothin'
< 1281390833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno.
< 1281390894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So if I don't care about bonus features, should I prefer the .m2ts or a Blu-Ray directory?
< 1281390933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.m2ts I *think*.
< 1281390952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any idea what fmt is used for "original quality" on Youtube? :P
< 1281390966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 22
< 1281390969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HD 1080p iirc
< 1281390970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 24
< 1281390971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1281390987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 38 for 4K, 37 for 1080p
< 1281390988 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549726CC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281390988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest 37 :P
< 1281390990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, 38
< 1281390995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 37, man
< 1281390997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't play 4K
< 1281390998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just can't
< 1281391008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just curious.
< 1281391037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that could change.
< 1281391066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs molecule-level resolution
< 1281391090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets the .m2ts downloading.
< 1281391102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only I had hardware that could /comfortably/ decode HD, and the HDTV was in this room.
< 1281391141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: does that theorem have a specific name?
< 1281391204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any good torrent clients anyone can recommend?
< 1281391224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Apparently it's *not" "Shannon's Theorem", but it bloody well should be.
< 1281391226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with a daemon/client architecture would be good so I can avoid extra windows/terminals but still check on it.
< 1281391291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281391309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, incidentally, have you heard of the Conservative Bible Project?
< 1281391310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used Transmission a few times; it's preety simplistic, but I do think there was a daemon.
< 1281391314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes!
< 1281391331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was their single stupidest thing, probably.
< 1281391332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure whether the regular frontend spoke to the daemon, though.
< 1281391339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Apparently so.
< 1281391344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt there being a daemon
< 1281391371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And yes, I agree.  It is "hawt".
< 1281391390 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I can't bring myself to say it without quotes.
< 1281391403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least a "transmission-remote" command line tool to speak to the daemon.
< 1281391410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, has P!=NP been proven?
< 1281391418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also recall some sort of browser interfacey.
< 1281391426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transmission-daemon program is a daemon-based Transmission session that can be controlled via IPC commands by transmission-remote(1)
< 1281391439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Don't be afraid! There is a whole world of saying-"hawt"-ness out there if you just embrace it.
< 1281391449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although nobody is ever quite sure how to pronounce it!
< 1281391458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it "hauwht"? "hot"? "haute"?
< 1281391482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Seems that mplayer doesn't handle caching well when *seeking* in a stream.
< 1281391497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally haute.
< 1281391513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would having it just cache before going back to playing after a seek be too much?
< 1281391539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Otherwise*, though, mplayer + youtube-dl -g --max-quality=22 works nicely.
< 1281391551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 37
< 1281391594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maximum peers per torrent:"
< 1281391597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh, why would you want this?
< 1281391637 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, you don't like having too many peers, in your torrent, so you want to limit the number of peers, to a maximum.
< 1281391649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1281391649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1281391662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's actually a bit slowy-downy if it's too high due to your upload being chopped into tiny little pieces.
< 1281391722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: In my way, there would be a configuration file, and if you didn't like the option that lets you limit the number of peers because maybe you want to have unlimited peers, you could disable the option, in the configuration file.
< 1281391778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Colbert Report interview featured this project." --http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project
< 1281391789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was hilarious.
< 1281391793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1281391804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1281392454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: _maybe_.  the purported proof first appeared only 2-3 days ago and the experts have only barely started picking it apart to find flaws yet.  what's unusual is that it's not an obvious crank proof, but it's 100 pages long and there are still many ways it could have an error.
< 1281392568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm
< 1281392579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the discussion on the Godel's Letter blog is moving fast today, with a mixture of experts, cranks and spam
< 1281392581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted P to equal NP...
< 1281392608 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You make me want to post a comment which is all three at once
< 1281392672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you cannot be both expert and any of the two others, imo
< 1281392704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... could be an expert spammer?
< 1281392705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :experts can spam just like anyone else can
< 1281392706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, you can be an expert acting like a crank while spamming.
< 1281392727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your first post is moderated
< 1281392758 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I would just have to start off ALSO being a troll!
< 1281392956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok i guess there are very strong-opinioned experts.  i haven't seen any on this blog yet though.
< 1281393026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might be biased from not reading many blogs
< 1281393078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3436978/explain-the-proof-by-vinay-deolalikar-that-p-np/3437006#3437006
< 1281393087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly
< 1281393149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you could of course be an expert in a different field who went nuts * RIP Alexander Abian
< 1281393195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blowing. Up. The. Moon.
< 1281393204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This guy was awesome.
< 1281393223 0 :tombom__!tombom@213.81.112.171 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281393228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He compared himself to Galileo!
< 1281393234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love him!
< 1281393248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_that's_ not so unusal for cranks, i hear
< 1281393253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+u
< 1281393323 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=NP? seems very difficult question. Heck, IIRC the lowest complexity class that is known not to equal P is EXPTIME...
< 1281393354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Specifically, we exploit the limitation that first order logic can only express properties in terms of a bounded number of local neighborhoods of the underlying structure."
< 1281393356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1281393395 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1281393435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: strictly speaking TIME(f) for anything > all polynomials but < all exponentials should also work, no?
< 1281393461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not so famous i assume
< 1281393479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ?
< 1281393511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think that's a quote from the paper
< 1281393520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's from the supposed proof's abstract.  I don't know what to make of that, is all.  He's either onto something or... he... isn't.
< 1281393539 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it hasn't been yet provent that QBF requires superpolynomial time in worst case. And that would seem to be much easier to prove than to prove that P!=NP...
< 1281393539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That in itself seems like quite an interesting claim.
< 1281393578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well QBF is in PSPACE, no?  and P = PSPACE is also unsettled
< 1281393599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing I hate:
< 1281393599 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBF is the canonical PSPACE-complete problem.
< 1281393606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're downloading a huge (GBs) torrent
< 1281393609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your upload gets maxed out
< 1281393610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you download barely nothing
< 1281393612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right at the start
< 1281393614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up with that
< 1281393624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBF?
< 1281393627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: oh i read it as BQP :D
< 1281393630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum Brainfuck?
< 1281393631 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like SAT is the canonical NP-complete problem.
< 1281393657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn acronyms
< 1281393677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must find more reasons to use the Qu ligature.
< 1281393715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: quantified boolean formula
< 1281393726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil."
< 1281393727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake, Quentin! — ­Queen Quorum
< 1281393731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LOGIC of HELL
< 1281393734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's beautiful isn't it.
< 1281393740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep trying to make my sentences use Qu just to see it.
< 1281393761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SAT, except you're allowed to prepend things like "for _both_ X true and false" and "for _either_ X true or false"
< 1281393765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queues Are Quite Awesome, So Perhaps I, Quentin, Will Just Talk Like This.
< 1281393774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, have you seen the time Schlafly said one of his admins was a liberal because he forgot to capitalise "hell"?
< 1281393781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :-D
< 1281393796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/prepend/use/, although you can move them all to the front iirc
< 1281393797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This admin later left to found his own loony wiki.
< 1281393804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, link?
< 1281393819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last fall (2009) I taught Economics." Dear God.
< 1281393832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that.
< 1281393841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who let this madman teach economics?
< 1281393853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC he used an example of a service that was actually a good and a good that was actually a service.
< 1281393858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, homeschoolers.
< 1281393864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touche.
< 1281393866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine Computer Science.
< 1281393870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You must now write a Quine.
< 1281393878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He claimed to be a professional programmer once...
< 1281393878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turing was a known homosexual, and his ideas have little relevance."
< 1281393884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: e.g. for_all X (there_exists Y such that (X or Y)) where all the variables are booleans
< 1281393885 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this?
< 1281393892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g. things like
< 1281393897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so unhappy that the term "homeschooling" has been diluted by crazy people.
< 1281393901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Andy Schlafly, idiot extraordinare.
< 1281393910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: & admin of Conservapedia.
< 1281393919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& son of noted idiot extraordinaire.
< 1281393961 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, admin of Conservapedia => idiot extraordinare. But what is his father's claim to fame?
< 1281393963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Mystery:Why_Do_Non-Conservatives_Exist?
< 1281393976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Sharing & propagating the same beliefs as his son.
< 1281393994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it Andy's son, I forget.
< 1281394000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1281394003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly
< 1281394005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. I find these flamboyant ligatures quite spiffing.
< 1281394010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mother.
< 1281394017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phyllis McAlpin Stewart Schlafly (pronounced /ˈfɪlɨs ˈʃlæfli/; born August 15, 1924) is an American conservative political activist and constitutional attorney known for her opposition to feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment.
< 1281394045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaa--? Andy's Catholic?
< 1281394051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Catholic Church /accepts/ evolution!
< 1281394087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, he's been clever here.
< 1281394104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how there was a ridiculous debate over some bit of wording?
< 1281394111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, translation.
< 1281394173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But his church ... accepts ... evolution
< 1281394206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they also accept creationism
< 1281394229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They believe that biogenesis was initiated by God.
< 1281394239 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281394240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, they then believe that evolution progressed normally -- although of course us humans are "speshul".
< 1281394241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some complexity classes have equivalent logic formulations. P is first order logic with least fixed point operator. NP is second order logic with existential operator only. PH is second order logic. PSPACE is second order logic with transitive closure operator.
< 1281394254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they brute forced the Rubik's Cube with Google's CPUs and found out that no position requires more than 20 moves to solve.
< 1281394259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another victory for brute force over mathematics!
< 1281394265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only we could brute-force statements about the reals.
< 1281394290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well...
< 1281394303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: is this a quote from the paper?  i recall reading it uses the first fact for P
< 1281394312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, let's brute-force the nxnxn generalization of Rubik's cube too.
< 1281394327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n^n generalisation
< 1281394335 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some more things about the Catholic Church policy. They do not reject evolution (although some Catholics do), but they use creationism as well, and recognize it is not mutually exclusive, but not because humans are special or anything like that, but because evolution will not describe the grace of God.
< 1281394339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND OH YEAH
< 1281394350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not a very coherent policy.
< 1281394359 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Uh... maybe?
< 1281394362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evolution happened, but oh yeah, God created us all in the state we are in now!"
< 1281394370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have no problems accepting blatantly contradictory statements!"
< 1281394371 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would seem that it should be "easier" to try to settle P=PH? (IIRC, that's equivalent to P=NP?)...
< 1281394372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OH YEAH
< 1281394398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in principle you can brute-force first-order statements about the reals.  real closed fields are decidable that way.
< 1281394400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there is "theistic guided evolution", which is also some people's opinion.
< 1281394409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not sure if I'm equal to P.
< 1281394412 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If his P<NP proof is valid, I predict someone will simplify it
< 1281394412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That makes slightly more sense. It's about as much as you can reasonably expect from Christians.
< 1281394424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they accepted evolution wholesale, they'd be contradicting the basic tenets of Christianity.)
< 1281394445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Any opinions on my Riemann hypothesis disproof? http://pastie.org/1082326.txt?key=kt6ybknat9le7iodnlxzxw
< 1281394461 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Only that I'm allergic to the real line.
< 1281394471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Achoo!
< 1281394475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the complex plane, anyway.
< 1281394482 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out
< 1281394538 0 :cheater99!~cheater@p549726CC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281394541 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think the person who invented Perl is also both Christian and evolution.
< 1281394546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1281394556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have to believe God stepped in at some point, however.
< 1281394557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are. But some people are only one.
< 1281394563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Otherwise humans aren't special, destroying Christianity.
< 1281394588 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1281394595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I dislike Larry Wall because he's a missionary...
< 1281394635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's pretty immoral to go and seek out random people who haven't been exposed to the world, its culture or its religion and just try and force your religion upon them.
< 1281394658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I believe you, especially doing it at random, it is just nothing useful
< 1281394671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281394675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its religions
< 1281394679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, a few people do it in a better way, but many people don't.
< 1281394680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn typos.
< 1281394689 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, if P!=PH, there exists language that second-order logic can describe, but can't be described using first order logic with least fixed point operator.
< 1281394725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense.
< 1281394774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, you'd think this torrent would go faster.
< 1281394784 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281394787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only a high-quality rip of a recent major movie release.
< 1281394795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1281394804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek (2009).
< 1281394829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the x264 re-encodes etc. are more popular than this unmodified Blu-Ray stream.
< 1281394839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, 150 KiB/s? That's just piss-poor.
< 1281394950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here have a Usenet connection from one of the paid providers?
< 1281394965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how good the coverage of material the binary groups have is.
< 1281395007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the GNU GPL text available in TeX format?
< 1281395014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I know of.
< 1281395023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <alise> I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense.
< 1281395028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd just include it as \begin{verbatim}-ed stuff.
< 1281395035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, I mean Plain TeX, rather than LaTeX)
< 1281395041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure a modified version, even just for formatting as LaTeX, would count as the GPL, legally.
< 1281395044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not Plain TeX.
< 1281395044 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :210|<alise> I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense.
< 1281395055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's pikhq when you need him.
< 1281395059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know mplayer?
< 1281395063 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-203-58.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281395072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great timing! Hi pikhq.
< 1281395072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1281395077 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noice!
< 1281395081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can I tell mplayer "Scale this down until it fits on my screen, yo"?
< 1281395088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, even Plain TeX can do verbatim parts, although it involves changing category codes a lot.
< 1281395116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm: "However, LFP is too weak to express all polynomial-time properties of unordered structures (for instance that a structure has even size).".
< 1281395188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it does not really count as the GPL legally, but if it is the same text, it should be the same thing, and the FSF is probably OK with that, as long as the computer copy includes the original unmodified plain-text copy of the GPL.
< 1281395248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't find an option to do it.
< 1281395345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why not Plain TeX? Plain TeX is much more better than LaTeX
< 1281395361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use YakTeX myself
< 1281395362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because that's only your opinion, and the vast majority of TeX users, including me, disagree.
< 1281395376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am saying that the GPL is almost certainly unavailable in Plain TeX, due to its obscurity.
< 1281395407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it seems that mplayer successfully synchronises the audio and video, even when resizing down full 1080p video.
< 1281395451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really obscurity?
< 1281395468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain TeX, yes.
< 1281395474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX is almost universally used instead.
< 1281395503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd estimate Plain TeX's user base is somewhere between 1,000-8,000.
< 1281395518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas LaTeX's user base is the entire mathematics, physics and computer science community, more or less.
< 1281395524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus a lot of other users.
< 1281395591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that the GPL is available in LaTeX, but the LGPL isn't. (The GPL is also available in ODF, the LGPL and AGPL isn't.)
< 1281395628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aren't
< 1281395699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Wow, it seems that mplayer successfully synchronises the audio and video, even when resizing down full 1080p video. <-- on my desktop it uses X video extension to do resizing and such, meaning the GPU does the work
< 1281395721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the GPU in question is an onboard Intel card.
< 1281395728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah that changes stuff indeed
< 1281395733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue if it can do it
< 1281395738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it can to some degree
< 1281395743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I can't be for sure yet since the full file isn't there, making it hard to pass judgement on what is desync due to skipping in the life and what is legit desync.
< 1281395755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the little portion of continuous audio/video has mouths perfectly synchronised.
< 1281395759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm hopeful.
< 1281395763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I rewrite the GNU GPL in Plain TeX format, will the FSF accept it and make a copy?
< 1281395768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to hatch a plot to get the HDTV in this room.
< 1281395774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mayyyybe.
< 1281395782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not surprised they are synced. They usually are with proper video players on linux
< 1281395798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but in this case PulseAudio and ALSA both failed massively at it.
< 1281395803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's taken OSSv4 to get the latency low enough
< 1281395804 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-12-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281395806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enough.
< 1281395808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo go OSSv4
< 1281395816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your light notebook?
< 1281395829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a notebook that happens to be light, not a "light notebook" :P
< 1281395843 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a notebook MADE ENTIRELY OF LIGHT
< 1281395852 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as an ANGELBOOK
< 1281395852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281395853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumenotebook.
< 1281395853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? is it dark then?
< 1281395859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phanlom_Hoover
< 1281395861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, damn, you beat me to joking about that
< 1281395862 0 :Phanlom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies of shock
< 1281395864 0 :Phanlom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1281395873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does nearly everyone disagree about Plain TeX being more better? But some people don't?
< 1281395882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Personal taste.
< 1281395887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phanlom_Hoover dies of shock <--- alise what...?
< 1281395901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, because it isn't better?
< 1281395901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Lumenotebook.
< 1281395904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover can explain.
< 1281395906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1281395912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, please explain this
< 1281395913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Explain why it isn't better?
< 1281395916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GETITAWAYYY
< 1281395936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I think I did before?
< 1281395939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days ago
< 1281395939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used both Plain TeX and LaTeX, and in my experience, Plain TeX is much more better
< 1281395947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, explain why
< 1281395949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which date/time?
< 1281395952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everyone else here thinks you're wrong.
< 1281395956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, um you were here.
< 1281395962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't know exactly
< 1281395979 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the date at least?
< 1281395989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no
< 1281395996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, but why is plain tex better
< 1281396000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please explain why
< 1281396015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:14 <+cheesworshiper> pikhq: Just remember you have to have SSH working before you can use it as a phone if you want to maintain your nerd rep.
< 1281396016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh.
< 1281396033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is the device in question?
< 1281396034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, I can do many more things with Plain TeX. Also, Plain TeX can do cross-referencing without requiring two passes or an external makeindex program.
< 1281396044 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1281396045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no auxiliary files are required.
< 1281396054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, those extra things, examples?
< 1281396058 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-43-243.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1281396068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you know, I let kile or lyx handle the building
< 1281396080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both cases I just click a button or hit a key combo
< 1281396085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What extra things, examples?
< 1281396085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't need to care more
< 1281396094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<zzo38> For one thing, I can do many more things with Plain TeX."
< 1281396096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :examples of that
< 1281396114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written yesweb in Plain TeX
< 1281396117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is there and ready-made Plain TeX package for Karnaugh-diagrams?
< 1281396129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, or what about microtyping?
< 1281396130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what Karnaugh-diagrams is.
< 1281396139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/MfJb
< 1281396149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one example.
< 1281396157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, a tool used to minimize boolean functions, useful when doing electronic circuits
< 1281396160 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1281396166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to typeset that in a lab report last spring
< 1281396173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is of course a latex package for it
< 1281396175 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk
< 1281396187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Palm Pixi.
< 1281396195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh, never heard of that
< 1281396213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also wasn't Palm like dead and undead several times over?
< 1281396223 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of LaTeX packages for various things, but think Plain TeX does it better, if it doesn't exist I think someone can write codes for it
< 1281396225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palm Pixi = retarded Palm pre.
< 1281396229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note that WebOS sucks shit.
< 1281396233 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281396238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "shit" I mean "major shit".
< 1281396269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well part of the point of LaTeX is that I don't have to write those things. I have deadlines, if I had to write all those I wouldn't be able to meet the deadlines
< 1281396319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a LaTeX package to do what yesweb does?
< 1281396337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I could write one of them probably, but not kaurnaugh and gauss and longtable and AMS and so on
< 1281396346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, AMS might exist for plain TeX
< 1281396348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1281396350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it?
< 1281396353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1281396356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AMS-TeX
< 1281396358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by Michael Spivak
< 1281396358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1281396359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that one
< 1281396365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: undeveloped since late 80s
< 1281396388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, there some sort of LaTeX support for the math symbols from AMS and some enviroments
< 1281396392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I used a few times
< 1281396399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if those are in AMS-TeX too
< 1281396402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's AMS-LaTeX.
< 1281396402 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1281396405 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :munich is awesome
< 1281396408 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u should visit
< 1281396410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it as undeveloped?
< 1281396415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, at least for me, I am more effective at Plain TeX, than at LaTeX. And writing the codes for some things should not be too difficult.
< 1281396418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no... you use it every day
< 1281396424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{ams*} = AMS-LaTeX
< 1281396428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{amssym}
< 1281396430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{amsthm}
< 1281396433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{amsfonts}
< 1281396434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1281396437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, but I use qmail every day. Doesn't mean it is in active development
< 1281396453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "active" as in "it needs no changes anyway since it's very polished"
< 1281396458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :active like LaTeX development
< 1281396462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1281396470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so active like qmail too then
< 1281396530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and how the heck anyone can write as reliable C code for something as complex as qmail still confuses me. I guess djb is superhuman.
< 1281396591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why people view C as a good intellectual exercise.
< 1281396609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I claim that?
< 1281396611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory leaks versus monads: which is harder to understand.
< 1281396612 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) be a mathematician 2) do not use the standard library
< 1281396615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, no.
< 1281396623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It confuses me how a good programmer *cannot* write reliable C codes for a thing like that. It should be possible for any good programmer to do, without too much difficulty
< 1281396634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just claimed it was tricky to write non-trivial non-buggy C code
< 1281396646 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Are you a ham radio operator?
< 1281396664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, out of interest, why that question
< 1281396667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: No. But I was thinking about doing so some time in the future, possibly (or possibly not)
< 1281396677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, assembly vs Haskell
< 1281396685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cpressey> AnMaster: 1) be a mathematician 2) do not use the standard library <-- you still need to interface the OS with read() and write() or such then
< 1281396689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. Assembly without labels.
< 1281396703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, hard to avoid malloc() and friends as well. Plus a few other calls
< 1281396711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: your code barely ever checks errors
< 1281396719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wouldn't be so quick to blame other programmers
< 1281396724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least what i've seen on it)
< 1281396735 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your pedantry is adorable.
< 1281396737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do sometimes write a very small program directly in machine-codes
< 1281396751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, of course. That is part of my job here
< 1281396751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Adorable for a value of adorable equal to unbearable.
< 1281396751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, very small being the operative words.
< 1281396756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it does not check a lot of errors, just to make it efficient, though
< 1281396762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read() and write() are syscalls, you dumbass.
< 1281396771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, there exists a libc wrapper, but it just calls the syscall directly.)
< 1281396778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Checking errors isn't inefficient...
< 1281396788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I'm pretty sure qmail uses libc there
< 1281396791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It takes ~0 time.
< 1281396807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do usually check some errors
< 1281396814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, zzo38 doesn't have the same definition of "good" as us mortals.
< 1281396824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do realise /that/.
< 1281396838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot I realise that.
< 1281396846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quinn, Quite a Lot, realises Quadratics are Quines.
< 1281396847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Quines.
< 1281396854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, If I were a mathematician I would generalise that to "zzo38 doesn't have the same definition of * as us mortals"
< 1281396857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH writing if (!(ptr = malloc(whatever))) constantly will give you RSA.
< 1281396861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a/A/I/
< 1281396868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, fail
< 1281396875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does RSI means?
< 1281396881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how so?
< 1281396893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forall x, zzo38 doesn't have the same definition of x as us mortals
< 1281396900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Repetitive Strain Injury ...
< 1281396903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fail. Use unicode for that
< 1281396903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, globs /= mathematics.
< 1281396913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: O, that is it.
< 1281396915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's why you define xmalloc :P
< 1281396920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oerjan could use a glob
< 1281396923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1281396927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If checking errors is important you can make a macro or extra function
< 1281396935 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, he's a mathematician, though!
< 1281396941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics is what he says it is!
< 1281396949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that proves my point doesn't it?
< 1281396953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than your
< 1281396968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you're not a mathematician!
< 1281396976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1281396986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but oerjan would probably use a glob
< 1281396993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also compsci is really quite like math
< 1281396998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, moreover, he doesn't call it mathematics.
< 1281397002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper compsci
< 1281397003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION types in the Konami code
< 1281397008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1281397010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab
< 1281397019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, forget it.
< 1281397023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1281397030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tell me how many things in my codes is you considered to be bad codes:  http://sprunge.us/eKMF  (Sometimes I find things I don't like in my own codes, and fix it, but usually that is not the case)
< 1281397075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, for (;;) is a bit... tacky.
< 1281397090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (1) or while (TRUE) is nicer.
< 1281397095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;;) is very common.
< 1281397099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only idiots use TRUE.
< 1281397116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is very TRUE
< 1281397125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sorry, I meant of course that is very 1
< 1281397125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? We already all disagree about how bad my codes are!
< 1281397141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only idiots use TRUE in C.
< 1281397147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't
< 1281397156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ever (;;)
< 1281397171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define whilst while
< 1281397173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, THAT MUST GO INTO THE NEXT VERSION
< 1281397191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define logic (1
< 1281397192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define holds )
< 1281397195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst logic holds
< 1281397195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you don't check return value of fprintf(texout,"%s\n",s); for example
< 1281397197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was really in the official Amiga OS API includes.
< 1281397212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls in love with the Amiga
< 1281397229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the RKM, which was basically a printout of them.  I lived off that thing for months
< 1281397259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, checking your input parsing would take more work, and I'm too tired for that atm
< 1281397266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@d forev for(;;)
< 1281397268 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@f forev do
< 1281397293 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I need to check return value of fprintf(texout,"%s\n",s);
< 1281397294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *headdesk*
< 1281397295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forev"
< 1281397298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even K&R hate you for that.
< 1281397313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I just type for(;;) it works fine
< 1281397392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster: It is easier to read my program if you print it out, in case you care)
< 1281397405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just run it through TeX ...
< 1281397433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to run it through Enhanced CWEB first, before using TeX or a C compiler
< 1281397479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will automatically print the index and table of contents, from this file
< 1281397507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yesweb?!
< 1281397527 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is yesweb?
< 1281397534 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I am not using yesweb. For C programs, Enhanced CWEB is more better, in my opinion.
< 1281397543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38's NEW & IMPROVED literate programming system
< 1281397547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More better!
< 1281397560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yesweb can be used for generic language-independent literate programming.
< 1281397563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you made Enhanced CWEB yourself, right?
< 1281397574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1281397598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, incidentally, that Wiles proof of Fermat's Last theorem is so *ugly*.
< 1281397606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could make a better one.
< 1281397682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not right now!
< 1281397703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, no existing OSes are written with Enhanced CWEB!
< 1281397745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, of course that is right, Enhanced CWEB has not been out for long enough anyways, and even if it is, that doesn't seem much likely
< 1281397779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a gap in the market!
< 1281397833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is two kind of literate programming systems, ones specific for certain programming languages, and ones for generic use, so, I have both kinds available. I think if you are writing programs in C, ones specific to C is more better, and so on. But generic use ones are needed for ones with multiple programming languages and everything like that in one file
< 1281398029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I think OS design would be considerably improved if Enhanced CWEB was involved.
< 1281398072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think you are right, it can be.
< 1281398094 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1281398297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Other generic use literate programming systems include noweb and newfangle. The name "yesweb" is just a play on words from "noweb". But newfangle has the weave program implemented as LaTeX macros, but the tangle program is written in AWK. But yesweb has both tangle and weave implemented using Plain TeX.)
< 1281398337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R
< 1281398346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything should be written in R.
< 1281398363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my decree!
< 1281398370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1281398375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even used R.
< 1281398394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then learn about writing program in R, perhaps try to write a program in R, if you want to try to do so?