00:12:22 alise, so, did the kernel finish installing yet? 00:14:08 well then... night 00:16:21 AnMaster: haven't started yet 00:37:59 alise, couldn't sleep, due to this idea: 00:38:05 md5 quine 00:38:19 possible? 00:38:38 alise, ^ 00:39:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:48:39 night → 00:55:05 AnMaster: hmm 00:55:24 AnMaster: crc32 quines exist i think 00:55:26 or something 00:55:28 so possible 01:01:15 Genteelmen. 01:04:28 Project for the insane: Translate Hamlet to Toki Pona. 01:07:33 It doesn't even have a word for "green"; you have to use "yelo laso" (yellow blue) or something. 01:08:07 Toki Ponans express larger numbers additively by using phrases such as tu wan for three, tu tu for four, and so on.[27] This feature was added to make it impractical to communicate large numbers.[6] 01:11:18 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:14:22 tu tu mute tu wan 01:14:28 "four many three" = 4*3 01:14:33 I have thwarted you, Kisa! 01:14:46 now to ackermann 01:16:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 01:24:53 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:27:25 Hi CakeProphet 01:27:35 Prophesised any cakes recently? 01:29:44 * Sgeo thought Sapir-Worf was discredited? 01:32:52 Context? 01:32:54 *Sapir-Whorf 01:32:54 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 01:34:01 Sgeo: 01:34:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona 01:34:33 yes, it is; but otoh, toki pona utilises something a bit weaker than sapir-whorf 01:34:41 i.e. "making it linguistically a bitch to say anything complex or bad" 01:34:48 which is obviously possible 01:36:04 DAMMIT 01:36:09 * alise presses alt+f4 on qemu by mistake 01:39:48 md5 quine <<< if it's any good a hash, it's highly likely that there is a quine, you need 23 ppl for birthday paradox, in the md5 paradox you have 2^128 people and 2^128 days 01:40:08 of course if you meant whether it's possible to *find* one 01:42:48 -!- Leonidas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:43:50 -!- Leonidas has joined. 01:44:43 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/MD5 01:52:57 quoting uncyclopedia isn't much of an argument, how could you trust it when anyone can just put whatever they want in there 01:54:54 * Sgeo blehs at his dad wanting to buy him a Kindle 01:57:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:58 Sgeo: Which you obviously must obey. 01:58:20 Honestly, one of the main things I want is the ability to use it like blank pen and paper 01:58:37 I saw a review suggesting that the handwriting stuff is better for short notes than for that sort of thing 01:58:49 But I guess I'll have to try it in a store [the Sony eReader Touch] 01:59:19 It would mean I'd be far more mathy, imo 02:01:31 irex 02:02:01 Last time we had this discussion, I remember commenting that that's expensive, iirc? 02:02:32 Only outside of US. 02:02:55 It's not exactly cheap in the US either :P 02:03:07 "Oops! Google Chrome could not find shop.ereaderoutfitters.com 02:03:07 " 02:03:19 n/m 02:04:39 Does IREX have a handwriting thingy, so I can do math stuff? 02:04:48 And take notes for class? 02:04:58 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:06:15 "Sorry, the page you requested was not found." 02:06:23 ^^trying to go to the BestBuy link 02:09:14 IREX does handwriting I think 02:09:16 It has a stylus 02:10:39 I'm having trouble finding it 02:10:50 Unless you're referring to iLiad 02:11:18 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:11:23 $4800 02:11:26 erm, $480 02:11:29 Still expensive 02:12:33 Any reasons not to get a Sony eReader Touch? 02:13:52 Maybe I'll get a chance to try it in-person 02:13:54 It's not an irex. 02:14:01 iLiad is the old irex 02:14:03 ask Gregor 02:14:20 http://www.irexreader.com/ 02:16:50 The IREX DR800SG is what I have. 02:16:53 It is not $480 02:17:15 How much is it? 02:17:51 Idonno, I don't know where you can buy it anymore. 02:17:58 It used to be on bestbuy.com, but it seems it's not any more. 02:18:09 -!- MizardX- has joined. 02:20:39 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:21:08 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 02:22:16 Again, is there anything wrong with getting a Sony eReader Touch? 02:22:33 herpes 02:23:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:01 -!- augur has joined. 02:28:19 hi augur 02:28:45 Sgeo: 's probably OK. 02:28:45 Idonno 02:29:02 hello, alise, my dear 02:29:15 drop the last two words there :| 02:29:18 Maybe I should make sure the software installs onto my computer successfully 02:29:38 Sgeo: it's not linux :D 02:30:21 Is there a Linux version? Maybe I should use that. My Windows install is rather FUBARed right now 02:30:39 i mean sony reader isn't 02:30:41 irex is linux 02:30:54 hello, alise, 02:31:07 augur: also the comma. 02:31:15 hello alise, 02:31:16 if i said last clause you'd just linguistically correct me pedantically 02:31:26 what? 02:31:40 alise: The Sony Reader doesn't run Linux? That sounds unlikely. 02:31:42 They all do. 02:31:45 oh, yes, well, there was no clause there, so. 02:31:49 It might be less hackable. 02:31:56 augur: precisely 02:32:04 Gregor: Well, yeah, but it's probably not X11. 02:32:06 so yeah 02:32:07 Which is a good bad thing. 02:32:09 hello alise, 02:32:12 hows life 02:32:12 alise: Yesh :P 02:32:19 Erm. 02:32:20 A bad good thing. 02:32:22 I think. 02:32:29 ahh 02:32:31 badgood 02:32:38 the bane of goodbad's existance 02:33:40 GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! 02:33:56 alise, when will you read Fine Structure? 02:35:03 -!- Leonidas has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:35:24 Sgeo: what's Fine Structure? 02:35:27 when the universe all's out of line and -- "Fucking--! What the fuck i-- I'm not even going to ask, where is the prince, is the prince here? What have you done with the prince?" "Sir, I'm sor-" "No. No fucking sorry. I want to know where the prince is." There was silence for minutes. "... follow me." He was lead into a ch-- what is this that I have found to happen? The things are all whats. 02:35:33 augur: a sci-fi novel by Sam Hughes 02:35:36 ahh 02:35:39 Sgeo: ^ there is your answer 02:35:52 o.O 02:36:02 So, I can feel free to spoil you? 02:36:46 Damn it augur and alise, stop having names that both begin with 'a' and are the same number of characters long >_< 02:37:07 Sgeo: No. 02:39:13 Stuff happens 02:40:19 yes, stuff does >3 02:40:32 Sgeo: gasp 02:45:13 * Sgeo needs to fix IE somehow 02:47:01 * Sgeo wonders if installing IE8 then uninstalling IE8 would fix IE6 02:47:26 But for now, I'll just install IE8 02:48:19 Bleh, installer said it couldn't uninstall the "current version" of IE8 02:48:27 So it will install over it a new, unremovable version 02:48:28 :/ 02:48:51 ... how about you just USE IE8 ... 02:49:07 Actually, how about you use a real browser, but one step at a time. 02:49:44 First, there are many applications that rely on IE for one reason or another. 02:49:57 Second, Windows Activation happens to be one of them.. and it demands IE6 02:50:07 So when I eventually do a Repair Install... 02:50:38 Activation demands IE6? That's hilariously broken even for MS :P 02:51:08 I actually thought about attempting to .. do piratey stuff to my otherwise legit XP install to get around it 02:51:12 Last time I did a Repair Install 02:51:46 http://abstrusegoose.com/249 02:53:56 Well, restarting 02:57:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:57:22 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:00:36 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:04:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:06:20 Hm 03:06:31 Installing IE8 fixed the problem with there being no default browser 03:06:39 And it made the default browser Chrome 03:07:07 lawl 03:07:11 [Well, I think Chrome was the default, but installing IE fixed.. the thingy that handles URLs] 03:07:12 Good choice, IE8! 03:12:27 * Sgeo needs to find his library card 03:21:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:28:28 comex, congratulations 03:29:06 `addquote GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! 03:29:19 202| GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! 03:29:46 ALthough, uh.. this means that malicious websites could do evil things, right? 03:30:15 *GASP* 03:30:34 and here i thought malicious websites only did _good_ things 03:30:34 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 03:32:02 Sgeo: why congrats to comex? 03:32:19 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/cw6ym/iphone_401_jailbreak_via_safari/ 03:32:32 http://www.jailbreakme.com/faq.html 03:32:55 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:37:45 Sweet. It's back. 03:39:14 god 03:39:19 im totally comment spamming this thread 03:39:29 so much to say! 03:39:32 x.x 03:39:58 http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/01/official-iphone-4-jailbreak-hits-from-iphone-dev-team/ 03:40:39 alise: you know anything about theorem proving? 03:40:45 Of what sort? 03:41:10 any 03:43:24 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 03:46:56 http://twitter.com/joshwrobel <-- boohoo 03:51:54 no huh 03:52:57 Well, goodnight. 03:53:16 Bye. 03:53:20 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:17:29 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:19:30 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:29:30 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:38:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:38:51 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 04:40:57 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:54:37 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:04:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:05:58 Dang it, uploading 70MB or so of audio files = slow :P 05:08:21 http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2-wipp10.ogg 05:11:21 AnMaster, pikhq (not here), maybe augur, anybody else who might care, ^^^ 05:16:39 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 05:30:02 Gregor: will look after BBT 05:54:13 omg bbt 05:54:14 ":D 05:54:37 Gregor: did your algos generate this? 05:55:00 >_< 05:55:04 The algos in my brain 05:55:07 And hands 05:55:15 And right foot 05:55:30 o 05:55:34 well thats not impressive 05:55:44 any skilled human composer can write good piano music 05:56:16 That sentence ... is its own definition :P 05:56:43 i dont know what that means, but ok :D 05:58:42 A skilled composer is someone who can write good music. Someone who can write good music is a skilled composer. So the only addition is "piano", which is obvious since the piano is a versatile solo instrument that nearly anyone who can play any instrument can play. 05:59:37 Oh, and "human" I suppose, but I am insufficiently skilled at MAGIC to write a skilled computer composer :P 06:00:19 it was a compliment, take it for what it is. 06:00:32 MUST ANALYZE EVERYTHING 06:01:28 also, it was a carefully crafted sentence and im glad you appreciated it for that. 06:01:30 <3 06:03:22 :P 06:10:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Well you also need _talent_...). 06:19:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:30:35 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: Bye). 06:31:52 -!- SevenInchBread has changed nick to CakeProphet. 06:33:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:44:15 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Quit: omghaahhahaohwow). 07:15:41 -!- tombom has joined. 07:43:53 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:53:58 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:38:55 AnMaster, pikhq (not here), maybe augur, anybody else who might care, ^^^ <-- mmm thanks, will listen in a few hours, just woke up and have to head out 08:39:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:16:21 AnMaster: Heh: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorenragsdale/3192314056/ 09:18:29 Awesome. 09:21:12 Somehow it doesn't look flight-save. 09:22:27 There's two other nice ones in a gallery about the effect: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorenragsdale/3904937619/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/meriko/4013673616/ 09:38:19 fizzie: yes. 09:39:39 i would love to do a bullettime fly around of such a thing 09:57:18 -!- DarkRedman has joined. 10:07:29 -!- DarkRedman has left (?). 10:08:27 I'm *so* happy I got RAID 1. Really 10:08:42 * AnMaster uses mdadm to fail one device 10:08:57 now to figure out which one it is physically 10:30:41 mdadm monitoring daemon mail from that: http://sprunge.us/YUZe 10:30:46 strange style it is written in 10:31:09 I mean, think about it, an auto generated mail have no reason to use P.S. ... really 10:53:13 It's a reasonably common style, though, to make app-generated emails look as if they were written by a person. 10:53:19 qmail does it a lot, IIRC. 10:53:50 It's bounces look like: 10:54:04 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at [host]. 10:54:04 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. 10:54:04 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. 10:55:24 AnMaster, why are you so happy? 10:56:10 One broken disk, no data loss; I presume. 10:57:04 Not with RAID 1, surely? 10:57:22 RAID 1 just striped, I thought. 10:58:05 That's RAID 0. 10:58:08 RAID 1 is the mirrored one. 11:02:44 Oh, where you just have a few disks with the same data on all of them. 11:06:46 Right. Usually few == 2. 11:08:06 One broken disk, no data loss; I presume. <-- one broken disk, no need to restore from slow backup 11:08:50 fizzie, any opinions on if this is drive or mobo? http://sprunge.us/bfPd 11:09:08 fizzie, I suspect drive since it seems to have vibration issues as well... 11:09:31 noticed that when using hdparm -y to identify which physical drive it was 11:10:02 fizzie, I would use few = 3, except my mobo only has two sata connectors 11:10:59 I wouldn't use few == 3, I'm not made of money. 11:11:09 Did you check smartctl's statistics, if applicable? 11:11:38 fizzie, I checked that, no errors reported. but that drive spun down several more times (it does at each error) 11:11:54 fizzie, but if you mean vibration stats I don't think it has that 11:12:43 Well, I guess the drive is more likely anyway; if the sata controller has been burninated, you'd probably see errors on all channels. (Of course it's probably *possible* for it to break so that only one port goes, but it's maybe not so likely.) 11:12:53 fizzie, the disk is quite readable, md data check passes but it does have vibration issues and it does spin down and lock everything up every now and then 11:13:55 fizzie, it is interesting that there seems to be no place to see that ata1.00 == sda 11:14:40 I mean, I figured it out from spin down count for smartctl -A and also that when running extended self test, the drive spun down, and when it restarted it had completely forgot about this last self test 11:20:20 ls -l /sys/dev/block | grep sda/ => "8:0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.2/host0/target0:0:0/0:0:0:0/block/sda/" -- the physical path there (target0:0:0) is somewhat likely to correspond to connectors. (Though on my system changing BIOS flips for SATA mode -- legacy IDE, AHCI, silly-RAID -- can rearrange in which order connectors {0, 1, 2, 3} and {4, 5} appear.) 11:21:18 I'm not quite sure where the "ata1.00" name comes from, though. I guess it could be something driver-internal. 11:22:27 Bleh. These two files should be identical, but one has 21639 lines in it while the other has only 16254; that's not quite identical to me. 11:22:54 fizzie, the other disk is ata2.00 iirc 11:23:12 and my dvd is ata3.00 11:25:11 The other car is a cdr. 11:26:09 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 1 aug 21.48 8:0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0f.0/host0/target0:0:0/0:0:0:0/block/sda 11:26:10 hm 11:26:35 fizzie, where in that did you say ata1.00 was 11:27:00 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:27:12 fizzie, and driver is sata_via iirc 11:34:06 I just think that the "ataN" numbering would be in the same order than what's in /sys/bus/scsi/devices, though there might be some differences in 0-/1-based indexing and/or if there's multiple SATA controllers around. 11:35:30 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:36:38 -!- MizardX has joined. 11:38:42 fizzie, there is a SATA controller and a PATA controller 11:40:44 fizzie, btw do you have any idea about this: 11:40:45 # lspci | grep ISA 11:40:46 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation ICH9M LPC Interface Controller (rev 03) 11:40:51 that is on a no-legacy thinkpad 11:41:06 well, some legacy I guess 11:41:08 considering that 11:41:41 There's an ISA bridge almost everywhere; often the temperature sensors/smbus/i2c/whatever are hooked to it. 11:42:09 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JDO (ICH10DO) LPC Interface Controller (rev 02) 11:42:12 hm sensors does say coretemp-isa-0000 11:42:20 but I doubt that one is actually ISA 11:42:40 thinkpad-isa-0000, well I think that is virtualish. 11:43:04 Gregor, I like your last work so far 11:46:51 I don't know what the "-isa-" part there is trying to say; coretemp uses the rdmsr opcode to read the temperature. 11:51:30 ICH's (a random version) data sheet says: "Low Pin count (LPC) Interface: Allows Connection of Legacy ISA and X-Bus devices such as Super I/O; Supports Two Master/DMA Devices". 11:52:00 I think the actual sensors in at least one of my (otherwise pretty un-legacy) boxes lives in the traditional ISA bus I/O range. 11:53:20 sensors-detect: 11:53:22 Driver `f71882fg': 11:53:22 * ISA bus, address 0x295 11:53:22 Chip `Fintek F71862FG Super IO Sensors' (confidence: 9) 11:54:19 (This was from that Atom box.) 11:55:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:06:23 hm 12:13:53 -!- Leonidas_ has joined. 12:14:10 -!- Leonidas_ has changed nick to Leonidas. 12:15:03 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 12:37:18 fizzie, it seems that thinkpad-isa is really provided by ACPI 12:39:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 12:39:14 -!- distant_figure has quit (*.net *.split). 12:39:14 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split). 12:41:10 -!- distant_figure has joined. 12:41:18 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 12:46:54 Hm, there doesn't seem to be lm-sensors package for the N900, at least in the repo. It does have drivers for the sensors; there's /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon[01] (omap temperature sensor and something in the i2c bus), and I can even read current brightness and such from the files there, but there's no user-space command-line app. (There's some battery-graphing tools that I think monitor sensors too, and a port of http://conky.sourceforge.net/, but that's about it. 13:03:09 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 13:10:13 Does it count as open-source if you distribute an executable for which there /is/ no source code? 13:12:59 Phantom_Hoover, what do you mean with no source? lost source? written in machine code directly with a hex editor? 13:13:12 the former I would say no, the latter probably yes 13:13:16 Written directly with a hex editor. 13:13:30 Phantom_Hoover, depends on the license too 13:13:58 Assuming all of those things. 13:15:08 OSI's definition is: "The source code must be the preferred form in which a programmer would modify the program." 13:15:29 So, uh... I guess it depends on which programmer you ask. 13:22:30 -!- derdon has joined. 13:27:02 fizzie, doesn't it also require that it has a free license? 13:27:09 such as BSD or GPL or whatever 13:39:17 Is using non-tail recursion A Bad Thing? 13:41:44 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 13:44:20 AnMaster: Yes, it requires all kinds of things; that was just the part defining "source code". 13:52:48 Phantom_Hoover: only for many function calls 13:53:25 derdon, recursion tends to imply many calls. 13:53:45 Phantom_Hoover: no, not necessarily 13:54:04 Phantom_Hoover: you can define this typical recursive definition of a factorial 13:54:12 Phantom_Hoover: and then compute the factorial of 5 13:54:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:54:41 Phantom_Hoover: there are less function calls than with the factorial of 100 13:54:45 should be clear 13:54:54 Yes, of course. 13:56:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:06:30 oerjan! 14:06:45 ssh, it's a secret 14:10:34 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:11:11 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 14:14:39 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:16:07 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:31:19 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:36:57 -!- Flonk has joined. 14:37:09 g'day 14:44:35 Good day. 15:08:34 -!- Flonk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:16:37 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:20:23 So, cabal (Haskell) and setuptools (Python) are too similar to be explained by coincidence. Who copied who? 15:22:16 Who was first? 15:22:33 "In an effort to prevent bots from registering and spamming up the forum, you are kindly requested to refrain from registering if you are incapable of feeling love. 15:22:44 "If this prevents you from registering and you are a human, maybe you should talk to someone about it." 15:22:58 How do they test for it? 15:23:38 It's like the Turing test except... no, I cannot say. 15:27:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:29:41 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined. 15:29:58 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314. 15:32:15 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:33:57 -!- jcp has joined. 15:37:13 Random thought: conspiracy to commit a crime is itself a crime isn't it? 15:39:03 in most cases, although it's a different crime 15:39:17 in the UK, incidentally, conspiracy to defraud is illegal, but fraud itself isn't 15:39:32 OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? 15:39:53 which is a weird glitch on the legal system 15:39:58 Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime 15:40:31 norway is currently having a slight problem with this: conspiring to commit terrorism is criminal, but planning to commit terrorism by yourself isn't (unless you actually go ahead and do it) 15:41:10 Weird... 15:41:12 they arrested three people who were supposedly terrorists, but they're having trouble proving more than one of them actually knew what was happening :D 15:41:56 which means in principle _all_ of them might go free, even the main guy 15:42:12 (since they never got to actually carry out the plan) 15:58:01 `addquote OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime 15:58:07 203| OK, so is conspiring to conspire to commit a crime a crime? Let's all get together and talk about defacing public property sometime 16:22:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:59 -!- relet has joined. 16:53:14 cpressey, Cat's Eye is a consultancy complany? 16:53:27 Phantom_Hoover: Well, it used to be. 16:53:38 What is it now? 16:53:41 I don't do a lot of consulting these day. 16:53:43 *days. 16:53:53 It is what it says on the front page now :) 16:55:22 A concern? 16:55:49 Hey, if someone requires my unique services and is willing to pay me for it, I'm open to discussion. But while I was working for corporations with "non compete" clauses I couldn't do any consulting work. 16:56:00 Yes, a "concern". :) 16:56:19 heh, found cpressey's linked-in page :) "Esoteric Programming Language Designer" is an awesome job title btw 16:56:36 Yes. I take LinkedIn VERY seriously, you see... 16:56:38 * oerjan notes that "konsern" in norwegian means a large corporation 16:56:53 oerjan, probably the same root. 16:57:19 obviously 16:57:29 doesn't english 'concern' also have that meaning? 16:57:34 I think "concern" is usually how "large corporation" is translated from Japanese to English, too. 16:57:55 It's such a general, ambiguous word in English. 16:58:10 c -> k,s according to pronunciation is a regular rule in norwegian spelling 16:59:11 actually it seems to mean a group of companies 16:59:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concern_(business) seems to be a german borrowing 17:00:15 cpressey, what business can you do with esolangs? 17:00:37 Phantom_Hoover: You tell me! :) 17:00:46 -!- sshc_ has joined. 17:00:57 cpressey, torture device? 17:01:22 "So, you won't talk? Then implement quicksort in Lazy K!" 17:01:40 that article has some horrible grammar :D 17:02:07 if you start posting esolangs on the esolangs reddit you can at least get some reddit karma 17:04:28 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:07:20 -!- Gregor-P has joined. 17:07:34 There's an esolangs reddit? 17:07:49 http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/ 17:08:11 "conglomerate" seems to be a more precise english equivalent. maybe _too_ precise. 17:08:25 * Sgeo was about to ask why eso-std is mentioned, but it's apparently 2 years old 17:08:30 (or narrow) 17:08:49 there was an initial torrent of activity around the time it started, a couple of years later I made the first comment 17:09:27 oerjan: In English it can be used informally to refer to a single company or other organization 17:10:18 Or, of course, in the very general sense of "nexus of interest", which is kind of how I was applying it. 17:14:24 * oerjan isn't sure if you can say that in norwegian without being closer to either issue ("sak") or worry ("bekymring") 17:16:24 I think the same applies to swedish 17:17:03 hm looking at wiktionary interest ("interesse") might also apply 17:17:14 oddly enough we have the verb concern (as 'koncernera') in swedish 17:17:39 not in norwegian afaik 17:18:39 but it's very seldomly used (would sound very swenglish, although it's very old and actually imported from german rather than english) 17:19:44 it has synonyms though - avse, angå, röra 17:19:53 might use berøre ("touch") 17:20:07 ah angå as well 17:31:05 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:35:12 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:48:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:50:07 cpressey: Oh, but "concern" would apply to catseye also in the "concern, worry, headache, vexation -- (something or someone that causes anxiety; a source of unhappiness; "New York traffic is a constant concern"; "it's a major worry")" sense pretty well, wouldn't it? 17:50:20 fizzie: Yup :) 17:50:59 oh, wasn't that exactly what someone meant? 17:51:03 Whatever is to be done with all these esolangs? 17:51:20 "but cat's eye doesn't do anything now" -> "is that something to be worried about?" 17:55:00 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:56:45 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 18:07:25 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:52:20 Is there a minimum number of bits required for a Unicode character? 18:53:41 They've promised that all Unicode characters will be in the range from 0 to 0x10ffff, if that's what you mean. 18:54:28 And if that's NOT what you mean, then yes but that's more a question about compression than about Unicode. 18:56:01 Rather large amounts of that range are currently empty, but of course they might fill them later. (Since they did jump from the original 16 bits to 17 planes of that size, I guess it's concievable that they might go all "whoops, we'll need a bit more range after all" again.) 18:56:16 Phantom_Hoover, um. what encoding? 18:56:34 unicode is not an encoding after all... utf-8, utf-16, UCS4 and so on are 18:56:40 Not encoding; just the codepoints. 18:56:41 fizzie: As long as they don't introduce a typesetting equivalent of leap seconds... 18:57:20 Presumably there's a specified largest codepoint, which can be represented with a fixed number of bits. 18:57:20 Phantom_Hoover, well, I guess one but for the first two chars, two bits for the first 4 chars and so on :P 18:57:25 Phantom_Hoover: It's a finite range, at least at the moment. 18:57:33 Phantom_Hoover: 0x10ffff, like I said. 18:57:36 ah not in that sense 18:57:43 fizzie, the moment? They could embiggen it in the future? 18:57:59 fizzie, why only 0x10ffff ? And not 0xffffff 18:58:02 Phantom_Hoover: They could replace the contents of the standard with base64-encoded porn in the future, if they want. 18:58:15 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, they've sort-of promised they won't. 18:58:21 Good enough. 18:58:38 (Expand it, I mean. I don't know if they've made any promises about the porn thing.) 18:59:22 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:59:30 AnMaster: I don't know why; there's the BMP and then 16 "supplemental planes" of the same size; 17*65536-1 gives 0x10ffff. 19:00:20 fizzie, huh 19:00:45 It's a bit curious that they defined 16 supplemental planes and not 15; with 15 it'd be a reasonable [0, 0xfffff] range. 19:01:05 fizzie, 24 bits? 19:01:30 20 bits. One nybble for the plane, 16 for index in it. 19:01:48 Planes 3-13 (in the numbering where BMP is 0, and the rest are 1...16) are unassigned at the moment, so it's mostly empty still. 19:02:24 I always thought unicode was 32-bit... Now I'm all confused 19:02:49 fizzie: plane 3 is finally being filled with some other anarchic ideographs. 19:02:51 UTF-8 maxes out at 21 bits. 19:02:57 huh 19:02:59 Like you said, it's not an encoding; there's just the range of defined codepoints. 19:03:08 Maybe that's why there's so much empty space in atoms and galaxies -- reserved for future expansion. 19:03:12 11110xxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 19:04:30 Although a five-byte non-standard UTF-8 encoding would be pretty obvious: 111110xx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 19:04:41 And the six-byte, too. 19:04:52 I guess that goes up to the full 32-bit range. 19:05:16 Or maybe not. There's 31 "data" bits in a six-byte sequence. 19:05:39 SO CLOSE 19:05:52 Wasn't it so that the earlier UTF-8 spec did go up to 6 bytes? 19:06:01 "The original specification allowed for sequences of up to six bytes covering numbers up to 31 bits (the original limit of the Universal Character Set). However, UTF-8 was restricted by RFC 3629 (Note: IETF doesn't define UTF-8, Unicode does) to use only the area covered by the formal Unicode definition, U+0000 to U+10FFFF, in November 2003." 19:06:06 Right, it seems to have been. 19:06:13 Seven-byte, with the first byte containing no payload :P 19:06:31 fizzie: 31-bit limit seems to be a original codepoint space of UCS (before it kept synchronized to unicode) 19:06:43 Gregor-P: You could do that, but it'd be even more nonstandard, if that's a concept. 19:09:16 Eight-byte UTF-8 would break all the invariants though :( 19:09:43 11111111 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 10xxxxxx 19:10:02