< 1280620803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Uhhh, that's exactly what I thought you meant :P < 1280620860 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280620870 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for getting me past that first hurdle < 1280620881 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280620887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cyriak <3 < 1280621078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: link me to that teddynom thing < 1280621234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/teddynom.gif < 1280621245 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280621257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has it bookmarked < 1280621297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i just typed codu and selected from the suggestions menu :D < 1280621472 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt hackiki: i think it should be as a wiki on the side < 1280621478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been stepping through the Ubuntu install then forgetting about it for like hours now. < 1280621484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Expert install) < 1280621487 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a bit too dangerous, we could consider using jsmips < 1280621495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dangerous. < 1280621503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280621506 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the server runs freebsd then you can jail it < 1280621572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there no-one sane in this channel? < 1280621579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have slight doubts about AnMaster < 1280621597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, no. < 1280621614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is just "not sane" not "insane" < 1280621623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought AnMaster was excessively sane < 1280621627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its own form of insanityt < 1280621629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insanity < 1280621649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there _could_ be someone sane among the people who never speak, i guess < 1280621751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen AnMaster's optimisation options? < 1280621761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's so sane crossed into the region of unsane < 1280621764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like insane but boring! < 1280621809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why did i not see Phantom_Hoover left just before i quoted him < 1280621819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S IMPOLITE, YOU RASCAL < 1280621851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since i'm pretty sure he doesn't read the logs. unless my previous hints have gotten through to him. < 1280622013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe he meant if you've checked from DSM you can't be sane <-- clearly anyone who checks stuff in the DSM has OCD at least < 1280622071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hypochondria < 1280622115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, do hypochondriacs usually go for _mental_ diseases? < 1280622120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280622141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, frequently. obviously not usually.) < 1280622228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because we need someone sane to vet our Lisp OS ideas. < 1280622246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is just an easy isomorphism to combinatory logic with mutation, anyhow. < 1280622290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We so totally don't, anyway. < 1280622293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insanity sucks. < 1280622312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you said _sane_. never mind. < 1280622370 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity is kinda good < 1280622380 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you need to stick within reasonable limits < 1280622385 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can go loose < 1280622396 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kinda like sanely insane < 1280622429 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sane enough to reach levels of insanity which top pure insanity < 1280622440 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this DOES kinda make sense if you think about it < 1280622448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280622449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sanity sucks. < 1280622455 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare: < 1280622473 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those guys run so fast and coordinated tied together, it's insane" < 1280622475 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :versus < 1280622490 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those guys keep getting tangled up and jerking each other around with the rope, it's insane" < 1280622505 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally believe the former to be better < 1280622521 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also consider nukes < 1280622528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knew he should have listened to the voices telling him to drop the subject < 1280622552 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was no sanity in building the nukes, there would be no working nukes < 1280622569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... that's a bad thing? < 1280622600 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the "firepower" is a higher level of insane than if you were to just let people be loose and uncoordinated < 1280622610 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like organised sanity < 1280622613 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280622617 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organised insanity < 1280622633 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example: forming a huge huge mob < 1280622643 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just swarming everywhere < 1280622689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tell why you'd use nukes as an example. < 1280622712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobs suck too < 1280622745 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a nuke demonstrates the point of "organised insanity" in that the power of a nuke is INSANE < 1280622762 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "mob" i mean a group of people gathered together < 1280622827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who thought up how to make nukes were mostly loner insane geniuses, I'd say. < 1280622830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual building, maybe not < 1280622908 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the only people who had anything to do with the nukes were insane then they would not have been made < 1280622920 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, too insane < 1280623100 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280623107 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280623142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: you're denouncing insanity in #esoteric < 1280623144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh man. < 1280623169 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm not, i'm promoting "organised insanity" < 1280623173 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 000082bc < 1280623180 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gotta be what is causing my segfaults < 1280623226 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1280623229 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 A person who was involved in a car accident was mistakenly pronounced dead at the scene by an ambulance officer. However, during the removal of the body, the victim was found to be still alive. Rushed to hospital, they died there later. < 1280623251 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the* victim was found... *they* died there later < 1280623303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the* reader was anal... *they* were used to programming in esoteric languages < 1280623313 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280623410 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1280623450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's phantom_hoover got to... < 1280623503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiring with his phantom friends < 1280623788 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280623838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I got a "! Misplaced \omit" error. < 1280623860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "\multispan ->\omit" "\hline\end{tabulary}" < 1280623959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also got undefined control sequence \TY@F4 < 1280623970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any such control sequence in my document, I don't have \omit either < 1280624001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're using some LaTeX command wrong, I guess; by causing it to do that. < 1280624023 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "\hline\end{tabulary}" wrong? < 1280624031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I using "\multispan" wrong? < 1280624060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have "\multispan" or "\omit" on this document! < 1280624103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the hline thing is in your document, that must be wrong. < 1280624111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put your document on sprunge and I'll have a look. < 1280624145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can access it at: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.tex < 1280624195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl grmbl files that won't display in the browser < 1280624277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know in the browser I use I can push "t" to force display as text. But you can also use curl or wget to get the files, or use the view-source: function in the browser < 1280624287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Strange: I cannot see an error in your code. Does it give a hint as to what line? < 1280624306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 49 < 1280624354 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there is a lot of other problems too, table headings are formatting incorrectly, it also badly formats tables that take up multiple pages < 1280624358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah yeah i know it's useless to complain you all just say "install linux and firefox" < 1280624417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also prints "_LOOKUP _OF_SKILLS" at the top of the table of contents, for some reason that I don't know. < 1280624419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i can easily save it and open in vim, it's just one click too much to bother.) < 1280624504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it *still* says the Introduction is on page 3 even after I converted it to LaTeX, even though the Introduction is actually on page 7, just like before. < 1280624579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the contents entries for the different spells levels are not lined up properly < 1280624658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with view-source in IE is that it doesn't become available before the browser actually displays the document _somehow_. i cannot get past the save/choose program dialog box. oh well. < 1280624703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280624707 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tables are still badly formatted, worse than before, even. < 1280624736 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also two blank pages before chapter 5 and chapter 6 < 1280624753 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, bet you can't guess what THIS does: http://www.ioccc.org/1994/tvr.c < 1280624762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See main.dvi < 1280624771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What table command are you using? < 1280624786 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay TeX... amirite? < 1280624789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do not use multicolumn for tables! < 1280624802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Tables < 1280624808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the tabular environment < 1280624819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: Something with X, I suppose? < 1280624835 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but look at what it spells out < 1280624850 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z <- Z^2 + C = ? < 1280624865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandelbrot. < 1280624888 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct! < 1280624896 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it spells Z -> Z^2 + C ? < 1280624922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I did look at that tables < 1280624947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But {tabulary} is needed to make it automatically wrap text in columns < 1280624950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're using multicolumn, though, which does not do the proper formatting for tables. < 1280624951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still does it badly < 1280624958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1280624968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, if the text in a column is too wide for the page, LaTeX won’t automatically wrap it. Using p{width} you can define a special type of column which will wrap-around the text as in a normal paragraph. You can pass the width using any unit supported by LaTeX, such as pt and cm, or command lengths, such as \textwidth.You can find a complete list in appendix Useful Measurement Macros. < 1280625001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use that because it has to be generated automatically from the .irm files < 1280625032 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: tabularx < 1280625058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{tabularx}{\linewidth}{...tablespec...} < 1280625114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says I need "supertab" for multiple pages < 1280625129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "xtabular" < 1280625148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which ones I need or how they should be used < 1280625168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the examples on Wikibooks do use \multicolumn < 1280625182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I try to use for the table headings < 1280625187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tabularx will work, no? < 1280625230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does tabularx do all of these things? < 1280625253 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the main.dvi file (in the same directory as main.tex) to see what is going wrong!! < 1280625321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See that the "Character-Start Feats" table is partly off the page (on page 30) < 1280625342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this was a pdf, so I could search it... < 1280625363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you have two tables without a paragraph between them! < 1280625372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to use \par -- or, in stuff you write yourself, two newlines < 1280625416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See on page 49 it is cut off < 1280625477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now it is a PDF. < 1280625477 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280625502 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625512 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280625524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is wrong on 49? < 1280625575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text is cut off (it should say "Duration" there), also there should be a line break before "Target" < 1280625596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look also the list on page 48 is cut off < 1280625615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On page 47 there is too large space between section names < 1280625644 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Vegabondmx < 1280625669 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is page numbers in table of contents is wrong? < 1280625722 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280625742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the formatting worked much better when it was Plain TeX, but that one had problems as well < 1280625853 0 :javawizard!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I still have the files for printing it with Plain TeX, they are different files than the LaTeX files) < 1280625893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Plain TeX one is called "icoruma_tex.php" and "icoruma.tex" while the LaTeX one uses "icoruma_latex.php" only) < 1280625904 0 :javawizard!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp < 1280625955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I know how icoruma.tex works! < 1280625963 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280625983 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280625998 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280626013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether I use Plain TeX (and icoruma.tex) or if I use LaTeX, it is still wrong! < 1280626136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did tabularx not work? < 1280626163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It has the same problem and everything is still broken. < 1280626168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't only the tables that are broken. < 1280626174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is broken? < 1280626199 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are cut off, spacing is all wrong, page numbers are still wrong..... < 1280626222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The formatting is worse than the macro packages I wrote myself. < 1280626239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have probably used the wrong code. < 1280626248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since your document still probably has non-LaTeXy things in there < 1280626259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is cut off? < 1280626266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is wrong with the page numbers? < 1280626300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are cut off, some of the tables are, also the list of spells and the spell descriptions are both cut off < 1280626312 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page numbers in the table of contents are not the actual page numbers for those sections < 1280626319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are four less than the actual page numbers < 1280626487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX just seems much more complicated than Plain TeX, I am going back to using my own < 1280626627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why VS2010 is working when the installer says it failed to install < 1280626651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Microsoft software is all like that..... < 1280627684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta < 1280627907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Later I will work on this printout of the rules for Icosahedral RPG. < 1280627914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I will do other things < 1280627996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biiiiiiiiiig Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeen < 1280628023 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280628043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say terrify. < 1280628048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say tissue. < 1280628053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say them both fast together. < 1280628055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name rings a bell < 1280628065 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever wonder why women always get a place to sleep? < 1280628092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1280628113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what terrifytissue is supposed to mean < 1280628132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it is because it is the weaker sex. < 1280628139 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. I believe they are stronger. < 1280628140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You /are/ joking, right? < 1280628144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know why I believe that? < 1280628150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they get enough sleep, that's why. < 1280628184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1280628194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually I am just quoting something from this pinball game, those are the speech they say in the background it is probably from some old movie or something like that < 1280628332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! I'm really good! I hit all of the drop targets! < 1280628473 0 :andynth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280628483 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h129.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280628936 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280629082 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg lives!!!! < 1280629114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death powered killing golems < 1280629135 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh death-powered, I like that :) < 1280629152 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a special power released in death? < 1280629175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently. < 1280629235 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to see if I can compile egobf for android < 1280629356 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280629734 0 :yiyus_!3390ade@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1280630426 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this would seem to answer my question except it doesn't work http://www.uclibc.org/FAQ.html#gnu_malloc < 1280630503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It doesn't work? How so? < 1280630534 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobfi8-bfi.o: In function `bf_interpret': < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x74): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x240): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi.c:(.text.bf_interpret+0x34c): undefined reference to `rpl_realloc' < 1280630561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that. < 1280630564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how does the solution not work. < 1280630577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, chalk that up to "when I wrote egobf, I sucked at autoconf" :P < 1280630577 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export jm_cv_func_working_malloc=yes < 1280630578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export ac_cv_func_malloc_0_nonnull=yes < 1280630592 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I suck at autoconf*inf < 1280630602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you murder your config.status first? < 1280630610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'll override exports if you're not careful. < 1280630628 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying < 1280630661 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't help.. going to see if I can figure out how to add MALLOC_GLIBC_COMPA < 1280630665 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+T < 1280630678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, presumably you're trying NOT to recompile libc here, right? < 1280630688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or are you not using Android's libc at all? < 1280630696 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was assuming that was something for autoconf < 1280630713 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1280630717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Android's libc.. bionic < 1280630736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid fix: Configure, edit config.h to remove the relevant #define, and pray it doesn't regenerate it. < 1280630884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gregor will like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw < 1280630890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available in stunning 1080p HD! < 1280630910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems like the kind of thing Gregor would link in here ten times in five minutes. :P < 1280630985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey hey hey ... I don't relink things with that frequency all that often ... < 1280630990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suuuure < 1280631011 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the subtitles are hd, that's about it < 1280631027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with HD subtitles! < 1280631077 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtf. < 1280631079 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfwtfwtf < 1280631082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftw < 1280631085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1280631092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll spam link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Xa4bHcJu8 instead < 1280631107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't appreciate the beauty of music. < 1280631838 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled.. trying it raw < 1280632117 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess egobfc doesn't make much sense to include < 1280632326 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fast hehe < 1280632424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: apt will have to wait because it requires libraries I don't have yet < 1280632582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364dzVsBs2o#t=0m57s <-- This washing machine hates tomato plants. < 1280632585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, really loathes them. < 1280632650 0 :rodgort`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1280632658 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280634382 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280634465 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280635405 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280635425 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280635440 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280635551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/computergameidea < 1280635561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which idea do you like/dislike? < 1280635743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sokoban on drugs!!" < 1280635826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have anything to expand any of these? < 1280635834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to add additional comments? < 1280636033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<6> is not a game < 1280636035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1280636062 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a game... with that title.... < 1280636070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHOOSH* < 1280636074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: pipe < 1280636080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1280636288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SICP available free? Will I learn _good_ design from it? < 1280636302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is SICP? < 1280636327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg < 1280636328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1280636330 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT <5> < 1280636332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANT < 1280636396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dislike the title-only ideas < 1280636410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You won't learn good design from it because it's nothing like C#. < 1280636434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sarcasm, I presume? Or are you saying that I won't learn good _OOP_ design from it? < 1280636452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant you specifically won't because of C# Syndrome. < 1280636477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# Syndrome? < 1280636492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known C# for less than a year < 1280636499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I can understand you dislike the title-only ideas because it is only a title, it doesn't really help much, but it is possible to imagination more about what it might be like, a bit < 1280636534 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280636534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known Python for... 6 years I think. If there's a Python syndrome, I may have it, but not C# Syndrome < 1280636572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you have any more specific ideas about anything on this list? Different people can have different ideas about it, I guess. And then if that is not specific enough other people (including me or even other people who did before) can add on to that, and so on < 1280636657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<13> sounds like it would be an interesting puzzle game < 1280636683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is <5> not a subset of <8>? < 1280636684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It might, if I can think of how it might work < 1280636687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magritte's pipes game could contain a lot of objects that look like pipes but turn out not to be when you pick them up < 1280636714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pipe-looking landscape features, and such < 1280636754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: <5> and <8> are two different things. By <8> I was thinking of something like "Tetanus on Drugs" (a GameBoy Advance game, Damian Yerrick wrote it and it is GNU GPL licensed) < 1280637239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280637253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night alise < 1280637267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280637269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280637342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know there are pink rotary payphones in Japan? < 1280637393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are found in the back of issue 26:3 of 2600 < 1280637466 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they be blueboxed < 1280637483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't know. I wonder if someone has tried. < 1280637491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you mean blueboxed? Or redboxed?) < 1280637517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Redbox is the one for payphones, usually) < 1280637542 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue. < 1280637551 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the one that lets you do free international phonecalls. < 1280637551 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280637569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes, that is what the blue one can be used for < 1280637590 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An early phreaking tool, the blue box is an electronic device that simulates a telephone operator's dialing console. It functions by replicating the tones used to switch long-distance calls and using them to route the user's own call, bypassing the normal switching mechanism. The most typical use of a blue box was to place free telephone calls < 1280637594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although to be specific, the blue box is simply used to generate a different type of tones than standard DTMF) < 1280637703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silverbox is the one for generating sixteen DTMF tones. As far as anyone knows you can't make free calls with it, but it can be used to automatically dial phones or to send DTMF to a remote service that uses DTMF even if you have only a rotary phone. < 1280637724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have tried this, the four extra tones do stop the dial tone on the phone I have at home! < 1280637782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the service over here does recognize them, but might just treat any telephone number containing them as invalid, I don't actually know. < 1280637784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280638165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: NO CARRIER < 1280639437 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280639467 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280639733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: language where some commands are of the form < 1280640247 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second apples and oranges? < 1280641037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome :P < 1280641055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want "millenium hand and shrimp" to be legal < 1280641626 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro++ < 1280641726 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h234.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280642785 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280644072 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280644082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't written it in green--your notes will be all wrong. < 1280644137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My conversion program Icoruma->TeX (without LaTeX) works completely perfectly when there are no tables involved! < 1280646026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280646106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280646312 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280647264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280648057 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280649599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280649600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280652947 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-35-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280652975 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1280653264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280653282 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1280653302 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280653308 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280653325 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280653765 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1280653862 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280654843 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280657121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280657942 0 :distant_1igure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280658080 0 :distant_1igure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280658796 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280658853 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280659018 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280659893 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E58CF.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280661385 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280661615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280662661 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280663342 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280663975 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280663994 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280664009 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280664265 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280665951 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280666234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is your first name Alex? < 1280666241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280666269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks himself < 1280666279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was Adam for some reason. < 1280668829 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was ais523 < 1280669142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the 'i' stand for? < 1280669145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivan? < 1280669149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1280669153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igor? < 1280669154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it really matter, though? < 1280669157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1280669235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't think of any other male names beginning with I... < 1280669294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ian? < 1280669522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280669534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280670391 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h60.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280670603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280671331 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-34-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671335 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day < 1280671515 0 :thanatos!~f901q@195-240-58-228.ip.telfort.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671570 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280671581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos? < 1280671591 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280671670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have thoughts on os, will discuss soon < 1280671679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, thoughts! < 1280671696 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os? < 1280671697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos, are you sane? < 1280671710 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1280671712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane people ruin oses < 1280671829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fair enough. < 1280671838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280671999 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more about sane people? < 1280672012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280672038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are the thoughts? < 1280672058 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts are illusion < 1280672126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos: this channel is for programming < 1280672138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: busy atm will tell in a little while] < 1280672140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*while < 1280672188 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric is about programming? :o < 1280672215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is about esoteric programming languages < 1280672217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not esoterica. < 1280672217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1280672239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe try somewhere else than freenode, this is a programming network mostly, for an esoterica channel < 1280672243 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe you :) < 1280672250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1280672258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanatos: see the topic < 1280672262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric is: (a(:^)*S):^ | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? (Wiki capable of running nearly-arbitrary code) Vote: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1280672264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some code < 1280672268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs - esoteric languages < 1280672271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly-arbitrary code < 1280672275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or look at the logs < 1280672296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: back me up here < 1280672316 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :em.... < 1280672352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp alise alise.old < 1280672354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1280672363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1280672373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, now *I* need to go. < 1280672383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: gah! for how long? < 1280672422 0 :thanatos!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280672534 0 :Fallensn0w!~thimceder@213-66-191-11-no24.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1280672547 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h5.7.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672562 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1280672568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280672573 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up < 1280672586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming < 1280672623 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ^^ < 1280672634 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang? < 1280672640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any :p < 1280672646 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280672702 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats your fav esoteric lang lol < 1280672718 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280672728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload or one of cpressey's or oklopol's, not sure which < 1280672760 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280672763 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1280672785 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload's easy to program in though xd < 1280672800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cpressey = Befunge, noit o' mnain worb, 5000 others -- catseye.tc guy) < 1280672804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oklopol = insane) < 1280672810 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280673778 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-119-166.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280674272 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is probably one of the sanest persons in this channel < 1280674337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallensn0w: what have you done in underload? < 1280674403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fallen snow, i thought it was fall en[d]s now < 1280674455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280674580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex INTERCAL Smith < 1280674601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a bit slow isn't he < 1280674629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this would make more sense if ais had chosen the name, now he'd have to have changed it < 1280676489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, Intercal is an awesome given name < 1280676495 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I haven't realized before < 1280677250 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280677714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey is probably one of the sanest persons in this channel < 1280677721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, no < 1280677772 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1280677864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is the NIH every-system-sucks let's-reinvent-computing types; and, man, just look at his esolangs < 1280677893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is the sanest person here then? < 1280677895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually while trying to figure out how Whothm works recently I ran into this quote from the documentation... (sec) < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd love to tell you about Whothm, but first I need to tell you about Joanie, the Gnostic Babysitter. Have you seen her? She's a very normal twelve-year-old girl, with very normal twelve-year-old girl concerns — she worries if her friends will make fun of her for liking different music than they do, worries if that cute boy in home room likes her or not, worries if she'll be able to achieve a transcendant state of gnosis at the moment of her physical de < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ath so that her soul may be freed from the reincarnation cycle. Because, you see, she's a Gnostic. Not just curious about Gnosticism, not just going through a phase, or anything like that — Joanie is a die-hard, demiurge-rejecting, rotten-material-world-shunning Gnostic. And she charges $15 an hour. < 1280677907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I can tell you about Whothm." < 1280677915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, I would very much doubt sanity. < 1280677924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hehehe... < 1280677953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it isn't you :P < 1280677958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but... every system *does* suck, and computing *should* be reinvented :P < 1280677960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's you. < 1280677965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, but :) < 1280677967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say ais except for INTERCAL and feather < 1280677975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is definitely crazy. < 1280677978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's you. it's why you're boring < 1280677986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280677987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1280677993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*not POV, others have called you the sanest e.g. oerjan :D) < 1280677997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Deewiant is pretty sane too < 1280678010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280678012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses D. < 1280678015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, nvm, x86-64 asm for that dobela interpreter < 1280678016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not sane < 1280678023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(% typos) < 1280678053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, olsner seems quite sane < 1280678060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1280678069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember him doing much but idling and saying a few lines every now and then < 1280678074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :) < 1280678134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... Sgeo is not actually insane is he? ... Just obsessed. < 1280678151 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is true that I mostly idle around here... < 1280678187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: necrophile < 1280678193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who? < 1280678196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sgeo < 1280678199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wf < 1280678199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: & thinks C# is nice < 1280678200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf* < 1280678206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1280678209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, this is a PSOX joke < 1280678210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1280678213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280678219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activeworlds joke then < 1280678228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is really as good as dead < 1280678229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, & other old VRs < 1280678235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro invented the necrophile thing :P < 1280678239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The main purpose of trigraphs and digraphs is so you can say "neener, neener, you didn't do it right" to some poor sap trying to write a tool that processes C and C++ source code." -- Walter Bright < 1280678249 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: besides, all my esoteric projects are all idling right now, waiting for my compiler to mature so I have something to write them in :) < 1280678252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1280678256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what, that M++ thing? < 1280678265 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a different thing < 1280678272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, what? < 1280678290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have to admit... I used them for that a couple of times. Only against people who I knew wouldn't take it badly though < 1280678296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and what about cpp and TC? < 1280678300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got anywhere with that? < 1280678315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think cpp is on the border between TC and not. < 1280678332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone linked me to the Game of Life implementation I could see if the lists would work. < 1280678346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of life implementation of cpp? < 1280678349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1280678353 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing fancy really, kind of C-ish with modules instead of includes, and some random syntax changes < 1280678376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, gc? < 1280678380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: other way around < 1280678381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL in CPP < 1280678387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: shame, i was hoping some crazy functional crap :) < 1280678392 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have haskell for that < 1280678395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, I would link you, except I never heard about it before today < 1280678403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haskell is insufficiently theoretical (type system is too weak) < 1280678409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's what spurred the TC cpp discussion < 1280678410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a finite grid < 1280678413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not in and of itself a proof < 1280678416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1280678422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in and of itself" is such a weird idiom < 1280678430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1280678430 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I do have a couple of ideas for crazy functional crap... dunno if/when I'll get around to implementing any of them though < 1280678447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, almost as weird as "x is all but y" < 1280678456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is probably not weird to a native speaker) < 1280678498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least "in and of itself" can be expanded to "in itself, and of itself" < 1280678499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1280678508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's not, in itself, and of itself, a proof" < 1280678513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot more parseable < 1280678526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Swedish has crazy idioms, though. < 1280678532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/20100731_010-027.jpg -- it's quite color-bandy, since it was snapped with the phone's normal camera app with full-auto settings, and also the sun took a peek at some point so the lighting changed; I did try the "LDR, variable WB" exposure optimization, but it mostly got the foresty part the same green, but made the sky be horribly surreal. < 1280678552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should've just done raw with fcam, but it's a bit slower, and didn't want to inconvenience others.) < 1280678556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, since I've been reading TaPL I will aim to get a proper type system into this language < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : auto a = puts((char[:>)<%a='a'+'\a',-~a,!(int<:'a']){[!!'a':>="a"<:!a]%>}); < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1280678556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1280678573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tried ldr, variable but with camera response unchecked? < 1280678574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: If it's as weak as Haskell's I will shoot you. < 1280678577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to give better results < 1280678578 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about just using simply typed lambda calculus as the type system < 1280678583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it has typeclasses I will shoot you.) < 1280678585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, need a small error still < 1280678586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hm, no; I could try that. < 1280678591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: doesn't work < 1280678598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because, we need a type *, being the type of types < 1280678602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for A,B in * < 1280678607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we conclude A->B in * < 1280678608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas < 1280678611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for A,B in X < 1280678618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, way quicker too < 1280678619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's approximately from here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=60.215859,21.292362&spn=0.080239,0.208569&t=h&z=13 < 1280678620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we conclude \(x:A). (y:B) in A->B < 1280678626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ^ so we can see that this does not work < 1280678634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is my internet so slow < 1280678638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1280678640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your upload < 1280678641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1280678642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the original De Bruijn proof checker used that model but it caused problems, which is why the types are usually separated < 1280678667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you *have* to point out my lack of upload bandwidth every single time I share a picture? I'm depressed about it enough as is. < 1280678677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry < 1280678699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a tip: progressive jpeg tends to be a bit smaller than normal ones, for same quality setting < 1280678715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 360°? < 1280678721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice though < 1280678727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280678750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and make sure you set the exposure reference image to one of the good ones < 1280678750 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280678755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone paste the last few lines plz < 1280678757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1280678759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280678763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) < 1280678764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, oh and make sure you set the exposure reference image to one of the good ones < 1280678770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than that, I need < 1280678775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed more due to freeze < 1280678780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: the original De Bruijn proof checker used that model but it caused problems, which is why the types are usually separated < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Do you *have* to point out my lack of upload bandwidth every single time I share a picture? I'm depressed about it enough as is. < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, sorry < 1280678781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, a tip: progressive jpeg tends to be a bit smaller than normal ones, for same quality setting < 1280678782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, 360°? < 1280678784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : very nice though < 1280678786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1280678787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes; it's from an observation tower thing up on a hill. < 1280678788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, freeze? < 1280678806 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, I don't understand what you're saying, but do you have a reference to that De Bruijn proof checker you were talking about? < 1280678809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, typing didn't work, nothing worked, ctrl+alt+f1 didn't work, just jerky mouse movements worked. < 1280678812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try drinking some antifreeze." (Note: do not actually try that.) < 1280678816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Freek has written about it. < 1280678820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sysrq? < 1280678827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: anyway: do you mean just using the STLC type system? < 1280678833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I thought you meant using STLC terms as types < 1280678844 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using STLC terms as types < 1280678856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: forgot to try < 1280678870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right. Well, you'd represent the type of a function from A to B as what, then? < 1280678870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1280678880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nothing in logs after reboot? < 1280678894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280678922 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280678957 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280678969 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280678972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fizzie's damn picture. < 1280678980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes Firefox hang the system when loading. < 1280678993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's just 9000 pixels wide, it's not *that* big. Especially compared to what AnMaster tends to post. < 1280678997 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail, I wrote two lines of response just between "alise has quit" and "alise has joined" < 1280679001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, firefox doesn't like it. < 1280679010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280679010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280679010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:08:42 so, you could say something like ((\x -> void(*)(x,x)) int) to write the type of a function that takes two ints < 1280679010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:09:17 (that's not really the syntax I will use for functions or function pointers though) < 1280679011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's the content. Your system can't handle the pristine wilderness! < 1280679024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how hideously pointless is that? that's equivalent to (void (*) (int, int)) < 1280679047 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, in reality you wouldn't use it to write pointless examples < 1280679050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: It's just 9000 pixels wide, it's not *that* big. Especially compared to what AnMaster tends to post. <-- true < 1280679061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I always use progressive jpeg < 1280679063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well anyway there has been a lot of good research done on type systems and i recommend you pick a better one ;) < 1280679065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that affects anything < 1280679080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i guess O'Caml's type system might be a good one to look at? < 1280679091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, maybe your system will work and I am a hopeless ...theoretician; wow, that's a word. < 1280679097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I still wish I had the stuff needed to make a 360° spherical at full optical zoom. HDR. < 1280679115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be quite a bit over 100 MP iirc < 1280679118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Any sort of variable-wb seems to insist on freaky sky (but nicely matching greenery); I think it simply needs more-than-two-parameters color correction in order to make both the sky and the shrubberies (ni!) match. < 1280679130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280679135 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it should surely "work" as in "produce types", the practical usability is a different question :) < 1280679158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: of course. < 1280679160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very strange that though... That it would need more than 2 var wb < 1280679167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if types are first order beings, then why not just call them sets < 1280679179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Coq and Agda do < 1280679186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: except Coq has Type with Set and Prop as descendants < 1280679188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what system specs btw? < 1280679190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since propositions aren't really sets that much. < 1280679194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, since firefox here likes it < 1280679195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more than good enough < 1280679202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CPU isn't the fastest, but it blazes all the time < 1280679210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sempron 3300+, 1.5 GB RAM. 72 tabs in firefox < 1280679213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i do warn you that if you introduce a type system like that you will end up with a functional language with bad syntax, unintentionally :D < 1280679219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess the default camera app might do any sort of "color-correction" postprocessing. It does some sort of edge-enhancing thing and horribly artifacty noise reduction already. < 1280679220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a bit slow to zoom in and out but otherwise just fine < 1280679221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, well, evidently there's some issue here with that imgae. < 1280679223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*image < 1280679229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really need you to brag about how your system manages it < 1280679261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm just pointing out that my old system manages it. Are you using that old thing with windows xp barely running on it? < 1280679264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What what what the Brontosaurus and Triceratops never existed < 1280679268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am crying < 1280679276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I'm running my good Toshiba < 1280679280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which has 4 GiB of RAM. < 1280679289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no smell of solder yet? ;P < 1280679297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, yes, only a 1.3 GHz dual-core Core 2, but dammit, ghz don't matter, it's fast < 1280679306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What what what the Brontosaurus and Triceratops never existed <-- ? The first got renamed didn't it? The second I have no clue about < 1280679310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I usually have 100+ CSS-y Javascript-y tabs open in firefox, so nyah < 1280679311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean something more recent? < 1280679318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, breaking news? < 1280679324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gizmodo.com/5601514/the-triceratops-never-existed-it-was-actually-a-young-version-of-another-dinosaur < 1280679327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the title in that URL. < 1280679335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, new news; just not breaking. < 1280679370 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I may also try to introduce type-functions that can produce code ... so many different ideas, I'll probably end up implementing none of them! < 1280679387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah interesting < 1280679390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh: < 1280679391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was already known that triceratops skulls changed throughout their development, but not that the final result was a torosaurus. Torosaurus will now be abolished as a species and specimens reassigned to Triceratops, says Horner." < 1280679401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So more shoddy Gizmodo reporting. This is why I read engadget! < 1280679408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the date that was posted < 1280679413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: type inferring is a bitch btw :P < 1280679418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sidebar at the top < 1280679422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gizmodo is also horribly laid out < 1280679425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER REASON TO READ ENGADGET < 1280679434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1280679437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although engadget's redesign is also shit. < 1280679449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not sure how dinosaurs apply to either site < 1280679462 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, also it's awesome so I'd like to have that too :P < 1280679464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to both include semi-random stuff the audience will like. < 1280679474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS < 1280679518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large were those young triceratops? < 1280679544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1280679555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, dammit, "Torosaurus will now be abolished as a species and specimens reassigned to Triceratops, says Horner." < 1280679560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gizmodo ruined my childhood TEMPORARILY. < 1280679562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1280679571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280679582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the temp bit < 1280679583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gizmodo KEPT A STOLEN PRE-RELEASE IPHONE 4. < 1280679587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engadget would NEVER be so evil. < 1280679589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280679592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get why it would ruin your childhood < 1280679597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DINOSORZ < 1280679615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I almost took this seriously and then I discovered it was on Gizmodo." --reddit THE PUBLIC ARE TIRING OF INFERIOR GADGETRY SITES < 1280679620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I am only getting paid a lot to say this < 1280679629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them? < 1280679634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinosaurs I mean < 1280679697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINO SORRRRRZ < 1280679762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't get that. Too much static. Try resending with reed-solomon < 1280679791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open sores < 1280679799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1280679839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ubuntu Rhythmbox has finally jumped off the deep-end and now opens on the Ubuntu One ... view, tab, whatever, rather than the library. < 1280679845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clooooooooooooooooud Stooooooooooooooraaaaaaaaaage < 1280679859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280679863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in what version? < 1280679869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.04. < 1280679901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't, maybe I did something. But I don't think so. < 1280679916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, doesn't here. Maybe I uninstalled that part early on. < 1280679924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is actually no such tab < 1280679925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1280679942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably you hid the tab or something. < 1280679957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now it starts in the proper tab. < 1280679969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You have the side pane on right? < 1280679973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got "Stores" hidden? < 1280679982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, just closed it *reopens to check* < 1280680017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I gotta finds me a music player. Not Banshee, Banshee is iTunes. < 1280680022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, says Library with several headings under it: (reverse i18ned titles): play queue, music, podcasts, radio < 1280680024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Quod Libet like last time, but *eh* < 1280680028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there is a playlist heading a bit below < 1280680034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and no Stores heading? < 1280680038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're not on 10.04. < 1280680053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing some "my hig...", "last pla..." and "most recently add.." < 1280680059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Exaile because it uses vertical tabs and those are an abomination < 1280680061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stores anywhere < 1280680072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am on luicd < 1280680079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, why has nobody created something as good as Amarok 1 yet :P < 1280680082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amarok 2 is crap) < 1280680102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I think I removed all packages that showed up on a search for ubuntu-one < 1280680110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's probably it, then. < 1280680121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That probably uninstalled ubuntu-desktop. Maybe not the best idea. < 1280680133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, ubuntu-desktop is still installed < 1280680141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were recommends instead of depends < 1280680142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280680144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Okay. < 1280680148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might do that. < 1280680155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Canonical. < 1280680166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course with recommends you probably need to override some setting to make it treat it closer to suggests instead < 1280680169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare they try and make a profit, darned company :P < 1280680178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :P < 1280680186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is terribly intrusive though. < 1280680203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, install debfoster < 1280680206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I really should just implement my Perfect Music Daemon and Client. < 1280680210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good to clean up the mess after upgrades ;P < 1280680219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't need debfoster < 1280680222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's deprecated since 2006 < 1280680226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? < 1280680233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do install with aptitude, right? < 1280680266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, varies. apt-get, aptitude or synaptic < 1280680273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, do not use apt-get. ever < 1280680279 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always use apt-get < 1280680284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it's like using dpkg. aptitude is the official debian package manager. And, furthermore: < 1280680288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it supports the "installed as dep" stuff < 1280680291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude automatically debfosters on every action basically. < 1280680299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes that is annoying < 1280680303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is why < 1280680304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2006-01-01, debfoster is officially deprecated: aptitude does the same stuff as debfoster but integrated into the apt system. To convert your debfoster data to the aptitude database, use the conversion script." < 1280680308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want it to do that when I tell it to < 1280680312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Okay, then: "apt-get autoremove". < 1280680315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280680317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's your debfoster now? < 1280680321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HELL. < 1280680341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because it seems on jaunty the entire default package set was marked as manually installed by default < 1280680354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that didn't resolve completely after upgrading to lucid < 1280680361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is where < 1280680371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord, why do people suck so much as software. < 1280680382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1280680409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Songbird? Wikipedia, why the fuck do you call SONGBIRD a music player? It's more like a hideous Firefoxed abomination that simultaneously rips off iTunes, makes it somehow SLOWER, and adds a bunch of crap! < 1280680411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage. Raaage. < 1280680419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linux support for Songbird was discontinued in April, 2010." and nothing of value was lost < 1280680439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tl;dr software sucks < 1280680442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla dropped linux support in a product? < 1280680464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Songbird isn't Mozilla. < 1280680469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280680470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uses Firefox as the base code or something. < 1280680472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1280680476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it wants to be hellish and awful. < 1280680479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it succeeds at. < 1280680495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally the biggest, slowest, most bloated piece of software that only irritates you that I have ever seen. < 1280680499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X has been displaced. < 1280680518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes. Btw I started using mobile versions of sites that have that even on desktop. Stuff like the Swedish equiv of BBC and such < 1280680521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way faster < 1280680531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads like in a snap, unlike their normal site < 1280680535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, in Britain our BBC has a well-designed website by default that loads instantly. < 1280680540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easier to navigate < 1280680544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes indeed < 1280680552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it, unbelievably, has a clean and simple, typographically-oriented design! < 1280680564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/And/ it's actually standards-compliant, and uses /RDF/: < 1280680565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1280680572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/And/ their devs have blogs and stuff. < 1280680574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compare loading time: http://mobil.sr.se/ http://sr.se/ < 1280680583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUR NEWS CORPORATION IS MORE GEEKY THAN YOURS < 1280680593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wow, sr.se loads slowly and is ugly. < 1280680602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mobil.sr.se/ is a bit craply designed for screen though, obviously. < 1280680620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Now compare with our BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10830485 < 1280680622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrt sr.se: agreed. It was better before the redesign about a years ago < 1280680623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK WE WIN < 1280680628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Might not load as quickly outside of the UK.) < 1280680636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes the mobile one is obviously designed for stuff like my phone < 1280680642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works very well in opera mini on my phone < 1280680669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying here is that if you don't care about human rights or not sucking, we are a better country than you. < 1280680670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that loads a bit slow from over here. Slightly faster than sr.se though < 1280680687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iceland ftw < 1280680696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes maybe 1 second or so from completely refresh load (including all CSS, images, etc. from scratch (forced)). < 1280680708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you saw that stuff about Assange and media heaven on iceland? < 1280680713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With everything cached apart from the page it loads in maybe .3 seconds. < 1280680716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however he spells his name) < 1280680748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, googling his name returns a bunch of anti-Wikileaks articles in the mainstream media. < 1280680752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the Afghan stuff. < 1280680760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Julian Assange: is 'Wikileaker' a crusade or ego trip?" --Telegraph < 1280680768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, mobil.sr.se loads in a fraction of a second on a complete reload. the bbc link loads in about 1.5 seconds, sr.se in about 2 < 1280680768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But no, I didn't see that. < 1280680779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but complete reloads are pointless :P < 1280680782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And our site is better designed so nyah < 1280680786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't have to use the mobile site < 1280680787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.immi.is/ < 1280680788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280680796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did hear that Rejkyavik or whatever elected a joke party. < 1280680802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which turned out to actually be the best party in the elections. < 1280680817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check that link out. Assange planted the idea originally from what I read < 1280680869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1280680881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they had more than four people in the entire country. < 1280680889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the laws are not in place, they just decided that they will design them and put them in place < 1280680907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The four people are Bjork, two of the members of Sigur Rós (the other two are fictional), and the Prime Minister.) < 1280680917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is about the same number of people in this Swedish equiv of county where I live and on Iceland. Slightly less on iceland iirc < 1280680962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Sigur Rós? < 1280680983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a popular (well, in indie circles) post-rock band from Iceland. < 1280681016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway they have cheap energy on iceland. Thermal energy. Looks like a haven for green data centers as long as you put in a dust filter (ash in the heatsink can't be good!) < 1280681016 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-25-154.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280681034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I just couldn't live somewhere so tiny, though. < 1280681046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280681065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as far as people go. < 1280681091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Islande_-_Rekjavik_du_haut_de_la_cath%C3%A9drale.JPG This is Central Rekjavík. 'Nuff said. < 1280681111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many inhabitants in Rekjavik? < 1280681157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118,427 in 277.1 km^2. 200,852 in 1,062.24 km^2 in the Greater Reykjavík Area (i.e. the only metropolitan area in Iceland). < 1280681167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that latter total includes Reykjavík itself) < 1280681171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is around the same as this town, which just happens to formally be a city. One of the last ones to become a city before they dropped the concept of special city rights (I think it was around 1920 or 1930 or so) < 1280681183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1280681189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118,427 inhabitants? < 1280681192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more then < 1280681204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this city/town is like 20000 < 1280681222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total population of Iceland is 317,593, but the 100,000 or so not in the Greater Reykjavík Area just, like, live in volcanoes or something. < 1280681227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's still a very small place. < 1280681234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Besides. < 1280681240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Greater Reykjavík Area is a large area of Iceland. < 1280681252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, slightly larger than the largest city of this county-equiv. < 1280681254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/H%C3%B6fu%C3%B0borgarsv%C3%A6%C3%B0i.svg < 1280681260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That red portion is the Greater Reykjavík Area. < 1280681265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So really it's a county. < 1280681267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280681271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah < 1280681274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And consider that outside of there there is /no metropolises/. < 1280681278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just villages and the like. < 1280681284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there are /no metropolises/. < 1280681298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I would call Reykjavík a metropolis as such though < 1280681328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newcastle, the nearest city to where I live, has 273,600 people in just 113 km^2. < 1280681332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'm pretty sure I *wouldn't* < 1280681338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. < 1280681339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's pretty large < 1280681348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's a "regular city" so to speak. < 1280681371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Tyneside, a very small portion of England around it, has 800,000. < 1280681376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember that Stockholm including suburbs has about 1 000 000 inhabitants iirc < 1280681376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah: Iceland is /almost empty/. < 1280681381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :London is way larger than that < 1280681389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, Reykjavík has lots of technology and the like. < 1280681398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so UK "regular city" is larger than Swedish regular city < 1280681403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very modern city with a lot of enterpriseyness (in fact, all of it in the country!) and the like. < 1280681406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: London is not a regular city. < 1280681418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well nor is Stockholm around here < 1280681419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: London is /fucking huge/ by anyone's standards. < 1280681428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greater London has /7,556,900 people/. < 1280681434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Stockholm is fucking huge by Swedish standards! < 1280681439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In just 1,572 km^2. < 1280681457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Icelandic people must lack words to describe the size of london < 1280681475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand Reykjavík." < 1280681480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, how many thousands was that?" < 1280681486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be bothered to count < 1280681499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, scientific notation for the win < 1280681588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should download those Afghan documents in case they get taken down. < 1280681598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they've gotta be on a billion torrents by now. < 1280681606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "This document, released by WikiLeaks on February 18th 2010 at 19:00 UTC, describes meetings between embassy chief Sam Watson (CDA) and members of the Icelandic government, together with British Ambassador Ian Whiting." < 1280681623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So much for supporting the Icelandic government for the Modern Media Initiative :D < 1280681629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and London represents about 81% of the entire Swedish population (based on your figure and wikipedia's figure for the Swedish population) < 1280681648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :London is basically a tiny country. :P < 1280681670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This (Finland) is a pretty empty place too, though the Helsinki metropolitan area is approaching something reasonably city-like in most scales; there's a tiny bit over a million in what's counted as the "urban area", and something like 1.3 million in those regions where 10 % or more of people have their jobs in Helsinki. < 1280681682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would like Iceland, apart from the language < 1280681702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is pretty beautiful though. < 1280681711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have... things and people and other cities, though. < 1280681715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but learning it? not a chance < 1280681724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate larger cities. a town on about 20000 is quite nice < 1280681726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# U.S. Embassy profiles on Icelandic PM, Foreign Minister, Ambassador" < 1280681738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you /sure/ Iceland decided that initiative because of Wikileaks? :D < 1280681757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I am is quite a nice town. < 1280681768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11,139 people. < 1280681770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is a bit ... empty. < 1280681774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I read a few news articles and watched a youtube interview of Assange from 2009 < 1280681777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing much you can do at all, and few people. < 1280681782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that youtube video that made me look this up < 1280681786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he talked about it < 1280681787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham < 1280681792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was from December 2009 < 1280681812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Abbey is a bit creepy. < 1280681818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland has a very nice ranking on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density list -- 232nd, in a list of 239. < 1280681827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1280681837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fucking Greenland! < 1280681849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Australia is cheating. < 1280681856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that number is not very representative, I mean it varies hugely between different parts of most countries < 1280681861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway and Finland both are out of the top-200, but Sweden's in (194th). < 1280681862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australia is totally dense in all the places where /there's actually any people/ :P < 1280681881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just three people playing digeredoos or however you spell it per square million kilometers. < 1280681887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having some kind of graph showing distribution of it would be nice, I admit I have to work a bit on what exactly to show < 1280681895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell yeah, Macau < 1280681896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's representative of the fraction of people in the country and area of the country, nothing more, nothing less. < 1280681897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a map with color coding for density is obvious < 1280681904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wanted a x/y style graph < 1280681918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macau has 18,534.247 people per square kilometre < 1280681921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kilometre. < 1280681923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat that. < 1280681946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: It is only 29.2 km^2.) < 1280681949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Sweden is very very unevenly distributed < 1280681957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, holy shit, Monaco is only 1.95 km^2. So what do they have apart from the Formula 1 track? < 1280681968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is very unevenly distributed. Well, except places like Monaco. < 1280681971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in north Sweden you can go for miles without getting a GSM signal (unless you have Telia) < 1280681992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Telia? < 1280681994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and telia is only because the govt (used to?) own a large part of their shares < 1280681998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280681998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was getting to that :P < 1280682031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iPhone 4: Nu förändras allt. Igen." < 1280682035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden is really bad at making things sound elegant. < 1280682042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they used to be a completely state owned thing. But then there was that rage for making govt stuff private companies during the 1990s < 1280682043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost as bad as German. < 1280682044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Swedish < 1280682051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We had that! < 1280682059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Thatcher. < 1280682060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now everything changes. Again." < 1280682062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thatcher. < 1280682064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "iPhone 4: Nu förändras allt. Igen." <-- "Now everything change. Again." < 1280682067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ... that doesn't work. < 1280682070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think You *can* make that sound good < 1280682077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like the worst slogan ever. < 1280682083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1280682087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think Telia invented it < 1280682090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err typo < 1280682091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't appear on Apple's site. < 1280682094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, it does < 1280682098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This changes everything. Again." < 1280682108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly better than "Now everything changes. Again." < 1280682112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, telia managed to say that maemo was a browser in their desc for n900 < 1280682113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280682119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it tells you /what/ is doing the changing. < 1280682152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's "Nyt kaikki muuttuu. Taas." (which is very close to "Now everything changes. Again.") on Sonera's (the Finnish iPhone exclusivity-holder) site. < 1280682159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Apple finally did what they should have done instead of the Mighty Mouse, and released their laptop touchpad as a standalone device. < 1280682162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that really so hard? < 1280682162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Sonera? < 1280682168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TeliaSonera. < 1280682169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it TeliaSonera these days? Actually < 1280682170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280682174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was getting to that < 1280682179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO I KNOW THAT. < 1280682180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they merged or something < 1280682181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sonera in finland < 1280682182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1280682183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sonera.fi/ < 1280682188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The brand's still called Sonera. < 1280682189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so {Telia, Sonera} are brands of TeliaSonera < 1280682190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm and telia in Sweden < 1280682202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on stuff like the SIM cards and such it says Telia < 1280682208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corporation's official name has Telia in it, I believe. < 1280682236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe they use TeliaSonera for there tire1 stuff < 1280682251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there might be also a company called "Sonera" still; corporate ownership is a jungle. < 1280682262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tier* < 1280682269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Fontvieille was added as fourth ward, a newly constructed area reclaimed from the sea (in the 1970s)" < 1280682275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, we deserve more space! RECLAIM THE SEA. < 1280682276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I always mix up tire and tier < 1280682277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Monaco) < 1280682283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.teliasonera.com/Markets-and-Brands/ lists that Telia, Halebop (in Sweden) and Sonera, TeleFinland (in Finland) are "majority-owned companies" of TeliaSonera. < 1280682316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, halebop is the so-called low price brand < 1280682325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's TeleFinland. < 1280682327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note: for statistical purposes, the wards of Monaco are further subdivided into 173 city blocks (îlots)" < 1280682329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK < 1280682333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LESS THAN 2 KM^2 < 1280682339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only web support. And when I calculated on the costs, telia turned out cheaper < 1280682341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU SUBDIVIDE IT INTO 6 FUCKING REGIONS < 1280682343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ironic < 1280682344 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought halebop was exclusively pre-paid cards? < 1280682346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN SUBDIVIDE THOSE INTO 173 < 1280682351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the so-called "obnoxious phone sales" brand. < 1280682354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each îlot must be like < 1280682361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one square millimetre < 1280682361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was due to sucky student discounts for halebop and better ones for telia < 1280682369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, nop < 1280682375 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1280682389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.tele.fi/ < 1280682393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person scares me. < 1280682396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the mouse. < 1280682406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.halebop.se/start < 1280682411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The woman scares me. < 1280682411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh gods, the guy. You should see the animated commercials. < 1280682417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also every other drawing. < 1280682434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Thanks to the power of YouTube, I can. < 1280682438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it seems you can. < 1280682449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the "skeittimummo" one for starters. < 1280682449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it as bad as that ISP... I think it is bredbandsbolaget or perhaps comhem? They use some animated figure too < 1280682450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-xPfKnlFc < 1280682451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1280682454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at olsner for help < 1280682470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that you selected the right one independently, too. < 1280682476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bredbandsbolaget are the only Swedish ISP to offer 100 Mb/s internet, I think. < 1280682477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I Know that. < 1280682478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know that < 1280682480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know that. < 1280682492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRYFwX-H3nY A 3D one. < 1280682492 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I dunno < 1280682519 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch television so I wouldn't have seen any such adverts < 1280682521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ooh, fancy. < 1280682526 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: plenty others do too < 1280682552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tele2 use a sheep. as a stupid play on sheep and cheap. which aren't even pronounced the same way, but do happen to sound quite close if you aren't good at English, due to Swedish missing one of those sound variants < 1280682553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280682564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have a TV either, but I've still seen those commercials here and there; horrible. < 1280682586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area Man[...] < 1280682624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-xPfKnlFc <-- oh god. What a failure < 1280682640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch TV. Could be as bad here. Don't know < 1280682642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone listened to an HDCD? < 1280682642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's supposed to be "hip", you see. < 1280682652 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have comhem 100/10 right now, used to have bahnhof before I moved here (which was technically 100/10 but they didn't seem to actually limit the upload) < 1280682679 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280682695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that incomprehensible ad about cars. VW I think < 1280682713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of that. But worse < 1280682726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volkswagen adverts tend to be a bit strange. < 1280682736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wasn't there something about pimp your car < 1280682737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280682742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody listened to an HDCD? < 1280682748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is an HDCD? < 1280682776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some patented extension to Redbook stuffing more quality in there, some tricks to get 20 bits of signal out of 16 bit samples it seems. < 1280682780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now owned by Microsoft. < 1280682802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 20 bits out of 16? Go ask CSI for that < 1280682805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing some piracy; one of the rips is from the HDCD, so I'm just wondering whether it's worthwhile at all. < 1280682805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1280682805 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280682810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean compressed < 1280682812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1280682813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280682813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDCD encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal by using custom dithering, audio filters, and some reversible amplitude and gain encoding; Peak Extend, which is a reversible soft limiter and Low Level Range Extend, which is a reversible gain on low-level signals. There is thus a benefit at the expense of a very minor increase in noise.[2][3][4][5] < 1280682813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDCD encoding places a control signal in the least significant bit of a small subset of the 16-bit Red Book audio samples (a technique known as in-band signaling). The HDCD decoder in the consumer's CD or DVD player, if present, responds to the signal. If no decoder is present, the disc will be played as a regular CD. < 1280682814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In itself, the use of the first bit in the dithered least significant bit stream will degrade the sound quality on a non-HDCD player by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio but only by a minuscule amount. HDCD Peak Extension, if chosen in HDCD mastering, will apply compression to the peaks which will be audible in playback on a non-HDCD system which does not apply the appropriate expansion curve. < 1280682835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, based on the description it's more like 20 bits of dynamic range than 20 bits of precision. < 1280682839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280682842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... < 1280682859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I haven't run into them. I hate noise < 1280682868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have golden ears. < 1280682876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hear it. < 1280682876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I doubt I could hear the difference between 16 and 20 bits < 1280682892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, if AnMaster is horrified by that, wait until he finds out what psychoacoustic encoders do. (I bet he thinks he can distinguish LAME -V2 from FLAC...) < 1280682927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I don't. I do however think I can hear a difference between your average non-lame encoder and flac :P < 1280682950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you mean the original one, or that awful one that I forget its name. < 1280682980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtfully you could then hear the difference between 15 bits and 16 bits (w.r.t. added noise), especially if they're being clever with how it alters the least significant bit, and it sounds like they are. < 1280683014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why don't I just rip my own copy of the album. < 1280683020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. I don't have a CD drive. < 1280683071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I guess I am too resistant to change; I will just download the regular FLAC rip. < 1280683082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you installed linux with usb stick? < 1280683084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although the HDCD version does have more seeders... < 1280683086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pre-installed? < 1280683088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or netboot? < 1280683129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm pretty sure you can play an ISO < 1280683130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, I had no USB stick to hand! I used unetbootin -- random Linux ISO to USB stick + if on Windows USB bootloader installed, program, very useful -- to extract the Ubuntu ISO to the Windows drive (it can do that). < 1280683137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, by using loop mount < 1280683140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then booted up with the Unetbootin option in the Windows bootloader on next boot. < 1280683143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not mount < 1280683147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1280683152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losetup still < 1280683153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And voilà: it booted Ubuntu from the Windows drive. < 1280683168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partitioning was fun, since it saw the CD-ROM drive weirdly as it was on another partition, virtual and stuff. < 1280683177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to do some lazy, forced unmounting, then remounting it so the installer didn't break. < 1280683179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it worked! < 1280683209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, had to work on first try, I mean. you get one chance, loading the iso into ram. And then once you overwrite it, it has to work < 1280683222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hm? < 1280683234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I failed the first time and even ended up with a GRUB 2 without any files, which could do nothing. < 1280683234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, unless you are dual booting? < 1280683238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually I fixed it with a USB stick. < 1280683240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, dual booting. < 1280683247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This laptop helpfully came with a "data" partition on half the disk. < 1280683249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just used that. < 1280683250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD @ that fix < 1280683267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data partition, huh < 1280683274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I used Unetbootin on the really shitty computer to get a USB stick with GRUB on it. < 1280683280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then used GRUB to chainload the Windows bootloader. < 1280683285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1280683287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once booted in, I used Unetbootin again, and this time did it right. < 1280683294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, unbelievably, it worked. < 1280683299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, separate OS/data partition. < 1280683300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like /home partition. < 1280683305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more manual. < 1280683311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280683318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large drive? < 1280683327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why do I have six and a half gigabytes of swap? < 1280683338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 250 GB total. < 1280683352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, < 1280683368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 419 MB of what I think is some restore partition, 125 GB unused stock Toshiba-branded Windows 7, 118 GB ext4 Ubuntu, 6.4 GB inexplicable swap. < 1280683387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 GB, won't last long < 1280683390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't for me at least < 1280683394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that this laptop has a battery that lasts almost as long as a netbook's, is basically as light as a MacBook Air, < 1280683395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't "play an ISO" if you mean a regular .iso image of an audio CD, because regular .iso images are made of the 2048-byte data sectors, while audio CDs put 2352 bytes of audio data per frame, with less error-correction code. < 1280683412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a wonderful screen that is glossy yet this is unnoticeable, but since it's not matte it's usable in daylight, and very high dpi, < 1280683420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a good keyboard for a laptop < 1280683421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1280683425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm happy. < 1280683459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't that be reflected in the iso file? < 1280683490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm voluntarily using this laptop instead of my iMac. So, yeah, I like it. < 1280683493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it have fluid drains from the keyboard? < 1280683506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Wouldn't you just tell me not to spill things, anyway? < 1280683507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a trackpoint? < 1280683514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, you shouldn't be drinking near the computer." < 1280683519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but the trackpad is good and I'm just using a mouse. < 1280683534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I would avoid spilling things. It however nice to know that just in case, it is there < 1280683539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink near computer < 1280683540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it's perfect. But all that list I gave you are things my laptop has and yours doesn't. :P < 1280683550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drink near the computer, I'm just not in the habit of spilling things. < 1280683563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, there's a protective layer of some sort underneath the keyboard, obviously; so you could just drain it manually if you really did spill something. < 1280683568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, nice to know just in case, at university and such, Someone else might have a water bottle nearby < 1280683619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like there's a circuit board directly underneath. < 1280683619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many express card slots? < 1280683625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 0. Thank god. < 1280683630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is that? < 1280683634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was your ideal laptop, just that it was mine. < 1280683644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because there's no metadata in the "file format", if you can call it that; it's just a dump of the data portion of a data CD. You couldn't even have multiple tracks in a .iso image. You can of course have a bit-exact audio CD image (in the .bin/.cue format, or some others), but it won't be a "ISO image" in the usual sense. < 1280683646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I don't use the express card slot < 1280683650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PC Card esque things are a bit ... awful. < 1280683651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is nice to have, just in case < 1280683660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why? < 1280683662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it's not even that big a deal. But! < 1280683668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sides are all filled up. < 1280683685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't sacrifice a display port, one of the four USB ports, the Ethernet port, etc. for it. < 1280683689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe that is... < 1280683693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that? < 1280683696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe an SD card slot. < 1280683711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one useless feature on my laptop: softmodem. There is a modem port at the back. I don't know why anyone still puts that in < 1280683716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ExpressCard is so confusing; there's all kinds of /34 or /54 things, what's up with the slashes. I grew up with PCMCIA/CardBus, and it was good enough for me. Get off my lawn! < 1280683766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc I have one express card slot and one PC Card. Or something like that. When looking into the slots the connectors are different at the back anyway < 1280683821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, a better use for that area would actually be re-arranging the internal components to have a larger battery pack instead < 1280683824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, they would be. ExpressCard/54 and CardBus/"PC Card" have the same width, but the PC Card connector is full-width. < 1280683829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be heavier though < 1280683888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just checked, bottom one full width and top one less than full width < 1280683920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many usb ports? < 1280683930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four. < 1280683935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two on left, two on right. < 1280683939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, firewire? < 1280683942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1280683945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1280683956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha, wait, I don't give a shit. < 1280683964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, displayport? < 1280683970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280683970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you said you liked it < 1280683972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280683976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, /some/ digital display connector. < 1280683981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're so hard to tell apart these days. < 1280683996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, which one? isn't there some marking at it indicating which one < 1280684004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. A rectangle. < 1280684008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Representing a screen. < 1280684020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I have about the vga port on this < 1280684038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DP one has a stylised D < 1280684042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's especially hard now that they have three different sizes of standard HDMI ports. < 1280684052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ... why? < 1280684069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably they were jealous of USB, which also has "normal", "mini" and "micro" variants. < 1280684080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check xrandr. It just might tell you something useful < 1280684080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The three HDMI ports are also normal, mini and micro. < 1280684101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except mine tells me that VGA1, LVDS1, HDMI1, DP1 and DP2 all exist < 1280684103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDMI1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where only LVDS is connected < 1280684108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't trust it < 1280684108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DP2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) < 1280684110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And VGA1. < 1280684111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah. < 1280684114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280684115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVDS1 has the resolution list. < 1280684117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the others don't. < 1280684119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1280684123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVDS would be internal < 1280684130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other would contain external, if connected < 1280684153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't list monitor resolutions for unconnected monitors, obviously < 1280684156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1366 x 768, maximum 8192 x 8192 < 1280684160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8192 x 8192, fuck yeah < 1280684166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that fry my screen if I try it? :D < 1280684179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is X support or something < 1280684180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1280684182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe GPU < 1280684187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get that on the screen < 1280684189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it downscale it for my screen? < 1280684191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just burp. < 1280684206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, video mode not supported error *probably*, but who knows < 1280684218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you might get that old style scrollable virtual screen thing of X < 1280684220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not on the actual resolution list, it most probably won't do anything. < 1280684220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that? < 1280684222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280684241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my desktop I get: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 240, current 1680 x 1050, maximum 1680 x 1050 < 1280684244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1280684248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know the card supports more < 1280684250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used more on it < 1280684251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess changing the virtual screen size is possible too; I just thought xrandr only handles the physical state of outputs. < 1280684273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I don't think the xrandr thing is loaded < 1280684274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1280684278 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-4.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280684285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no invert stuff and such < 1280684303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, not in the modules list < 1280684307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no support for rotations? < 1280684316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this the nvidia binary driver? < 1280684325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes < 1280684334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has horrible xrandr support. < 1280684340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280684371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay. but until noveau supports 3D well enough for my needs I'm stuck on it. < 1280684401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of attempted support that if you pass Option "RandRRotation" to the nvidia driver, it'll try to fake it so that you can set the orientation with it. < 1280684418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280684421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I tell what card I have again? I don't know much about this system. < 1280684440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lspci, Xorg.0.log, dmesg, lshw ? < 1280684440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the other hand, "Workstation RGB or CI overlay visuals will function at lower performance and the video overlay will not be available when RandRRotation is enabled." < 1280684446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glxinfo too. < 1280684449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1280684459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2 < 1280684468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdpyinfo perhaps < 1280684471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1280684496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has even been reported, although apparently without historical documentation, that Adolf Hitler was influenced by concave hollow-Earth ideas and sent an expedition in an unsuccessful attempt to spy on the British fleet by aiming infrared cameras up into the sky[7] (Wagner, 1999).[8] < 1280684532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a shame is that good old "ethtool --identify" ("initiates adapter-specific action intended to enable an operator to easily identify the adapter by sight. Typically this involves blinking one or more LEDs on the specific ethernet port") isn't -- I think; I haven't really made a survey out of this -- implemented by many modernish drivers. < 1280684533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have no such line in my glxinfo. < 1280684557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "lspci" pretty often works too. < 1280684565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset GEM 20091221 2009Q4 < 1280684566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc < 1280684566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset GEM 20091221 2009Q4 < 1280684567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there we go. < 1280684575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /that's/ why the graphics are so good on this. < 1280684575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is tungsten graphics? < 1280684586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the Mesa developers, I think < 1280684587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey you have same as mine < 1280684591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1280684597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great card, innit. < 1280684601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really < 1280684604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mesa 3D Graphics Library Developer(s) VMware (previously Tungsten Graphics)[1] < 1280684609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, might have improved recently < 1280684612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I like it. < 1280684615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works great with Linux. < 1280684617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely great. < 1280684633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tungsten Graphics apparently also maintain DRI. < 1280684636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it (used to?) render some games incorrectly. But I haven't tried them since jaunty < 1280684640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stuff might have changed < 1280684647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* I hate light pollution. < 1280684660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Light_pollution_country_versus_city.png < 1280684681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I wouldn't give to live in somewhere with as wonderful skies as the top image but with, you know, modern conveniences. < 1280684731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and, last I tried (again under jaunty) my laptop failed to drive my desktop monitor at full res, It supported lower and higher but not the same as native < 1280684750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What resolution? < 1280684758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around here it looks like the lower pic, except more orange. (We have lots of low-pressure sodium-vapor streetlights.) < 1280684761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 1680x1050 < 1280684820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1280684844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the HDCD rip. < 1280684846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not, I guess. < 1280684850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only one with enough seeders. < 1280684883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the info say if it's done by actually decoding the HDCD signal, or just out of the HDCD CD? < 1280684899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It sounds like software support for HDCD isn't exactly widespread, since, you know, patented.) < 1280684910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Decoded with DSP. < 1280684915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By dbpoweramp. < 1280684922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Into a 24-bit container, with 4 empty bits. < 1280684925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Padding, that is. < 1280684941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, that's good, then. < 1280684988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of blab in the comments about how zomg-amazing the drums are but, uh, I have a feeling they're full of shit. < 1280684996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I have a 24-bit soundcard. How could I check? < 1280685082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone still use cdparanoia these days, by the way? I like that little program. < 1280685086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it's still developed. < 1280685106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, "CDDA Paranoia". :P < 1280685120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Cdparanoia is a Compact Disc Digital Audio (CDDA) Digital Audio Extraction (DAE) tool, commonly known on the net as a 'ripper'.]] < 1280685139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your laptop does gbit ethernet? < 1280685139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... well, you could try "aplay -l" and then looking in the internet for the chipset name it gives. I'm not sure if there's any tool that directly would tell you what it managed to open or not. < 1280685163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably. "How can I check?" < 1280685163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does anyone still use cdparanoia these days, by the way? I like that little program. <-- erhm, me? < 1280685182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just "HDA Intel". < 1280685186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lspci | grep Ethernet < 1280685191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD, so presumably 24-bit. < 1280685191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have it in the name < 1280685195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HD Audio and what not. < 1280685197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02) < 1280685204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0) < 1280685205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280685209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280685229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hardware based on Intel HD Audio specifications is capable of delivering 192-kHz 32-bit quality for two channels, and 96-kHz 32-bit for up to eight channels." Although of course that says nothing about my hardware. < 1280685236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, as of 2008[update], most audio hardware manufacturers do not implement the full high-end specification, especially 32-bit sampling resolution." < 1280685248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN MY DAY WE HAD AC'97. < 1280685250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we *liked* it. < 1280685259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try playing out your fancy 24-bit file, and then checking "pactl list"'s horribly long output as to what is the "Sample Specification" for the output sink it's going to. < 1280685266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. intel hda in my laptop too. Crappier sound than sb live 5.1 in desktop < 1280685273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for low notes < 1280685278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have crappy laptop speakers. So I don't care. < 1280685284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes this 24-bit thing doubly pointless, but, uh. < 1280685284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean <70 Hz < 1280685287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the speakers aren't crappy. < 1280685293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very good for laptop speakers; very good. < 1280685302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course this assumes pulse would properly grok that the hardware supports 24-bit audio and not down-convert it.) < 1280685304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the speakers, they are crappy in my laptop. I compared with moving headphones < 1280685308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so good on the bass, yes... but still very good on the bass, compared to the tinny crap you get. < 1280685311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between laptop and desktop < 1280685319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're crappy, but all laptop speakers are. I'm relatively happy with these ones. < 1280685321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit too quiet though. < 1280685338 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280685354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone remember when Plextor was THE drive to get for audio extraction? < 1280685361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *my* laptop has a potentiometer-based hardware volume control knob, which makes a delightful low-fi noise when you twiddle it. < 1280685369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just rebrand other people's drives now. :( < 1280685379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1280685382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I look so epically bad < 1280685397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (It's that pentium-100-or-so I don't really use.) < 1280685401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look so epically bad < 1280685415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry for the double message < 1280685434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: pics or it didn't happen < 1280685441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no thx < 1280685444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess there is no "event" to "happen" < 1280685448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280685449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we're talking in the sense of "time still existing" < 1280685454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suffice to say I'm dressed in a suit, which looks good < 1280685464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a pink tie that I can't get to look quite right < 1280685464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is a bit late, but yes, I do use cdparanoia, for some small values of "use". (We don't really have that many audio CDs.) < 1280685489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason to buy audio CDs is to get a good rip. < 1280685496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's pink. 'Nuff said. < 1280685503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: precisely < 1280685515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could dip it in ink? < 1280685529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? Dip the pink < 1280685530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie in ink? < 1280685536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it sink? < 1280685560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be pink < 1280685560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's my particular kink. < 1280685569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a perfectly serviceable blue tie here too < 1280685574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just wouldn't be the same < 1280685597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, how do I strip images from a FLAC file? < 1280685600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this bug however causes mayhem for me currently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/524281 < 1280685609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's your kink? Well I do fink < 1280685610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/however// < 1280685616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more than a little rinky-dink-dink. < 1280685695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just compile Amarok 1. < 1280685702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the feature of not sucking. < 1280685752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. There is also DeaDBeeF and Aqualung to consider... < 1280685775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could run Foobar in wine. :) < 1280685797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, the micro-HDMI connector is about the same size as micro-USB (2.8 x 6.4 mm, actually even a bit smaller), but it still has the full 19 pins of a regular HDMI connector. That's some seriously tiny pins. < 1280685829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280685839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is wrong with the normal size? < 1280685840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Foobar in Wine isn't such a bad idea. < 1280685856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, putting a db on a phone seems about useless < 1280685863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on laptop standard size fits neatly < 1280685864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a db? < 1280685882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, dp* < 1280685888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in displayport < 1280685894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But if I'm using Foobar in Wine, why not just use DeaDBeeF? < 1280685897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well same goes for hdmi < 1280685902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits neatly on a laptop too < 1280685903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's very much not useless: you can watch your favourite movies on-the-go on the hotel TV. (Okay, so you'd probably also have that laptop, but still. And I've been traveling around with just the N900 lately.) < 1280685918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate hotels. < 1280685927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah I'm not the target audience I see < 1280685959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, AnMaster doesn't watch entertainment. < 1280685990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: How many Prolog programmers does it take to change light bulb? < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Yes. < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: How many Mercury programmers does it take to change light bulb? < 1280685991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Four. One to change the light bulb and three to distract the nurses. < 1280685998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watch on youtube sometimes. I find the stuff on TV pretty much shit < 1280686014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how they have a nice TV (with reasonable speakers) I could hook up the phone into in a hotel room, and then they completely screw any possibility of that by (a) not having any control buttons on the TV set, and (b) by providing only a "for dummies" variant of the TV remote, which doesn't make it possible to select any of the (four or so) external inputs of the TV. < 1280686014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many bad american sitcoms < 1280686050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your phone has hdmi? < 1280686072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but there's a (blurry) composite-video/RCA-audio thing. < 1280686080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Carry around a universal remote. :P < 1280686146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE is so ugly. < 1280686156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The phone is a universal remote (it has a IR diode), but those TV models are always some sort of weird "business purposes only" models, and I can never find any lirc remote-protocol-files for them. (Of course a real universal remote would probably have some working codes; I don't usually have enough patience to start downloading files for non-matching models.) < 1280686206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I hear real universal remotes have nifty "point it at the TV, then press a button when something happens" auto-detection thingies. < 1280686232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought one that required you to hold down a button for like a minute then press something. < 1280686236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a fucking bitch-ass shitter. < 1280686237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280686318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the what? I wasn't looking, and someone has added to this N900 QtIrreco tool a "download a remote from DB" choice. < 1280686357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the "DB" it uses seems to be pretty tiny. Phew. I was afraid something was going to non-suck. < 1280686398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's surprisingly many air-conditioning systems listed; I didn't even know those have remote control in general. < 1280686486 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280686529 0 :Fallensn0w!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: g2g... follow me @fallensn0w at twitter < 1280686536 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! Now I have corrected all problems with Icoruma->TeX program, except for overfull hboxes in tables. < 1280686537 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280686717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Here's one way you could try for 24-bit sound: (with the volume way down) "aplay -L", then "aplay -D xxx -f S24_LE any.random.file", where xxx is a name from -L's list -- it'll try to play the file as raw audio data, and (at least here) say "Sample format non available; Available formats: [list]". (I'm just not completely sure I trust it, since it says that my hardware will play S16_LE and S32_LE, which sounds suspicious.) < 1280686776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea might be to make it calculate the minimum width of a paragraph box for only one word in a line, and the minimum width of all the words are on one line, and then insert a glue that stretches between those two widths? < 1280686781 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this work? < 1280686845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I will have to make it calculate the entire table before placing it on the page, similar to how I have it calculate the entire document before it ships it out < 1280687033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You know, none of us have any idea what you're trying to do unless you tell us ... < 1280687060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought I did tell you ... < 1280687068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you did. < 1280687071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of this do you not understand? < 1280687074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got lost in fizzie's messages. Sorry. < 1280687101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie only sent one message in between! < 1280687130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already know my idea is awesome and works so i don't really care about you ppl's opinion < 1280687179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ladies and Gentlemen, < 1280687181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present to you < 1280687185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world Linux UI design < 1280687185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1280687187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/Ru2kI.png < 1280687190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fizzie: < 1280687195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world ever, totally < 1280687195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the UI is okay, with a different theme. < 1280687197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the VISUALS. < 1280687213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here an expert in 2-structures < 1280687218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on) < 1280687231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "world Linux UI design" mean? < 1280687251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1280687258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst UI < 1280687260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not world, oops < 1280687283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//l/ s//s/ < 1280687295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1280687297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t != d < 1280687302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not a typo < 1280687310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a finger typo that is < 1280687325 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether it is the worst or not I don't know, but what I do know is I would make the UI entirely differently than that < 1280687328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you don't have those anyway being a supertyper < 1280687343 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as the feature set < 1280687513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I do make tons of typos. < 1280687519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just correct them in less than a second. < 1280687531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280687534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have lots of thinkos, however, as I type thoughts as they are formed. I imagine most people type /after/ thinking ... < 1280687541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say that's bad < 1280687564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually think while typing too, but i both type and think rather slow so < 1280687573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so what? < 1280687574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1280687625 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: most people think after typing :D < 1280687634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1280687684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type fast, and often I do correct them in less than a second < 1280687711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I type much faster when copying from something I have previously written on paper than when I am writing something new < 1280687747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when I write something new, I have to think of how I should write it down to make it meaningful and stuff like that < 1280688000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write new thoughts quicker than copying. < 1280688075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm playing the file; what command should I do, did you say? < 1280688196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am different because when I have new thoughts I have to think of how to write it. Writing new thoughts is not that much slower for me, though, than copying from a paper < 1280688202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is slightly slower < 1280688732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These speakers could do with more volume. < 1280688736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just compress everything :P < 1280688809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's something that's Very Hard To Rip: Hidden tracks in the pregap of track 1 -- can be listened to by rewinding to "track 0" on most CD players. < 1280688815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But many, many CD-ROM drives simply cannot do it. < 1280688865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Come to think of it, you could just use "mplayer -v" and check the messages. On my system, "mplayer -ao alsa -format s24le -v blah" says "[AO_ALSA] Format s24le is not supported by hardware, trying default" and builds a filter chain; s16le and s32le come out of the hardware. (I guess it's possible it fakes the 32-bit at some layer, but I don't think it should if you use a directly-hardwarey ALSA device.) < 1280688897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well, it sounds alright; I wouldn't be able to tell on these speakers, anyway. < 1280688915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a proper chair and some good speakers plugged in, I would be content. Yes, with the 13" screen; I've no problems with it. < 1280688931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact with excessive screen space I always get a little scared, what can I do with all this space that will do it justice and such. :P < 1280688931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the earlier command: pactl list | grep 'Sample Specification' < 1280688949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bunch of lines with "16" in them. < 1280688949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's something more-than-16-bits going on there, it's probably playing with many bits. < 1280688950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Well. < 1280688966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_albums_with_tracks_hidden_in_the_pregap < 1280688975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :List of albums that are almost impossible to rip properly < 1280689013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone hilighted me < 1280689029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about sanity. < 1280689135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1280689410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: The spectrum analyser bars you see in music players. < 1280689415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're useless and distracting. < 1280689509 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: Music players with GUIs. < 1280689513 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're useless and distracting. < 1280689528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely those bars are there for fun? So surely they're disableable? < 1280689547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, one does not imply the other :/ < 1280689564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun, pah. < 1280689572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick to super cow powers. < 1280689583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're not useless if you're trying to navigate a ton of music... < 1280689587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so I suppose you use mpdc? < 1280689596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, lemme guess < 1280689601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You manually play the audio files < 1280689615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer + bash = my music player < 1280689635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I navigate my music library with cd. < 1280689635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. I'd elaborate why th-- but that would be elaborating, finishing that sentence; so I won't. < 1280689636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Apparently (source: interwebs) even if your hardware supports 24-bit audio, if you're playing through pulse, the PulseAudio daemon needs to be configured (via /etc/pulse/daemon.conf) to have a default sample format of something higher than s16le, otherwise everything will be clipped to that. (And after that everything you play will be internally converted to that many bits, adding to the resource drain. The same thing if you bump things up to 96 kHz or s < 1280689637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omething.) < 1280689655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Playing through ALSA (though Pulse is running.) < 1280689662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does Pulse override ALSA? < 1280689684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default configuration makes the default alsa device direct things to PulseAudio, I think. < 1280689709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh. Oh well. < 1280689727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, with laptop speakers you probably shouldn't care. < 1280689732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even understand why people like PulseAudio. < 1280689735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has absolutely no ... features. < 1280689757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PulseAudio is an integral part of all relevant modern Linux distributions" < 1280689763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By defining "relevant" to mean "ones that use PulseAudio". < 1280689776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So that you can get that "ding" sound when you do something wrong on top of the music you have playing on the background. (Discounting for a moment ALSA's own software mixer.) < 1280689793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discounting the thing that already does a thing, it can do a thing! < 1280689793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the "bep-drweeedle" sounds when someone sends you an IM message. < 1280689808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another pet peeve: UI sounds. < 1280689811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bep-drweeedle" < 1280689812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :P < 1280689816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the IM message notifications are quite useful, but. < 1280689824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really sound like "bep-drweeedle". :P < 1280689834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like "BAdum!". < 1280689856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When first adopted by the distributions PulseAudio developer Lennart Poettering described it as "the software that currently breaks your audio".[6] Poettering later claimed that "Ubuntu didn't exactly do a stellar job. They didn't do their homework" in adopting PulseAudio[7] for Ubuntu "Hardy Heron" (8.04), a problem which was then improved with subsequent Ubuntu releases.[8] However, Poettering is still not happy with Ubuntu's integration of PulseAudio.[9] < 1280689863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, even the PulseAudio dev thinks Ubuntu's is especially crap. < 1280689906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A friend of mine once did a Doom .wad file; for the door-opening and door-closing sounds, he substituted himself saying, in a laconic tone of voice, respectively, "clink-schloink" and "schlink-cloink". For some reason it was hilarious. < 1280689939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280689962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to like an online station-like thingy called PulsRadio... < 1280689990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But the VISUALS. <-- visuals? < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puls'Radio - Non-Stop Dance And Trance Music - Web Radio Trance ... < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - [ Translate this page ] < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webradio orientée musique électronique dancefloor. < 1280689991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.pulsradio.com/ - Cached - Similar < 1280689997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see my link < 1280690000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the visual appearance of it < 1280690007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the other, important part of the UI (functionality, which is fine) < 1280690012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that default theme! < 1280690023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rewrite it in motif. Then there will be one worse < 1280690041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did you CLICK the link? < 1280690051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Ru2kI.png ? yes < 1280690062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motif looks way better than that. < 1280690077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about xine? < 1280690079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and for music player comparisons; my current one is xmms2 and the "nyxmms2" CLI. The project is sadly a bit dead. < 1280690090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bad, but... not /that/ bad. < 1280690098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyxmms2 or xmms2? < 1280690102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmms2 isn't really that dead afaik. < 1280690113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, mpd and xmms2 have the flaws that I didn't write them. < 1280690117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not *dead*, just sort of.. slowey. < 1280690121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is so bad about this one? The bg pattern is quite awful yes < 1280690133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and colour choices could be better < 1280690135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The colours, and the background. < 1280690137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but worst? no? < 1280690154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, but it did make me puke when I clicked on "default" theme after it started in "plain" theme (which is very very reasonable, GTK style). < 1280690156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are the three sliders < 1280690160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is probably position < 1280690164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one could be volume < 1280690168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one? < 1280690168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume, balance (I think), position. < 1280690171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balance because it's short and in the middle. < 1280690174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And next to volume. < 1280690184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike UIs where you have to hover the mouse to figure out what stuff is < 1280690184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in L/R channel balance. < 1280690193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMMS2's "AAC/MP4 (via faad2) and ASF/WMA (via ffmpeg) and libao output and whatnot" plugin developer's a friend, so I felt sort of obligated to try it out; it's passable. < 1280690196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when there is no reason for it < 1280690220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can ffmpeg actually poop crap out to an audio device? To use the correct terminology. < 1280690222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1280690231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why didn't I know of libao before? < 1280690264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libao? some audio library, iirc... But then there are more audio libraries than there are GUI toolkits these days < 1280690276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xiph.org's. < 1280690279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you Know It's Good. < 1280690282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what mplayer uses by default too. < 1280690291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1280690293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theora sucks, and aren't they behind it? < 1280690301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorbis is good yes < 1280690301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora sucks, /but/ it was a Good Try. < 1280690305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora is /old/. < 1280690308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280690312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :older than vorbis? < 1280690312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it was released it was /unbearable/. < 1280690316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they made it acceptable. < 1280690319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. But old. < 1280690324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was dormant when they got ahold of it. < 1280690329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how old is old? < 1280690333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they made it... you know, bad, but not terrible. < 1280690334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what alise thinks of VP8 < 1280690337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. 2003 or something. < 1280690344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"libao" as in "audio output"; it's meant for cross-platform audio output; writes to files (in various formats) as well as platform-dependant audio-hardware things. < 1280690354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1280690354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's still not as good as H.264, and never will be. < 1280690358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 2003 isn't old < 1280690369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is when the codec it's based on < 1280690370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1280690382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how old is VP3 < 1280690387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, why do I feel so old suddenly -_- < 1280690387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP3.1 was introduced in May 2000 followed three months later by the VP3.2 release,[11][12] which is the basis for Theora. < 1280690394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's old for /this stuff/. < 1280690404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I don't have a warped perception of time, I just have a context-dependent one. < 1280690407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2000, video encoding SUCKED. < 1280690414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1280690422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember .au? < 1280690424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio < 1280690427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's hard to make a format from then not suck. < 1280690434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't remember, but have seen since many times. < 1280690437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it's been obsolete.) < 1280690459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you are too young yeah < 1280690471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, what about qt in around 2001 or so? < 1280690475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, now... already in 1998 we had "DivX ;-) 3.11 Alpha". < 1280690481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickTime I dealt with when it was horrible, horrible on Windows. < 1280690483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still is, but, you know.) < 1280690488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with a smilie? < 1280690491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1280690495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The smilie is part of the name, yes. < 1280690498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley* < 1280690511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DivX ;-) (not DivX) 3.11 Alpha and later 3.xx versions refers to a hacked version of the Microsoft MPEG-4 Version 3 video codec (not to be mistaken with MPEG-4 Part 3) from Windows Media Tools 4 codecs.[4][5] The video codec, which was actually not MPEG-4 compliant, was extracted around 1998 by French hacker Jerome Rota (also known as Gej) at Montpellier. The Microsoft codec originally required that the compressed output be put in an ASF file. It was alter < 1280690511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed to allow other containers such as Audio Video Interleave (AVI).[6] Rota hacked the Microsoft codec because newer versions of the Windows Media Player wouldn't play his video portfolio and résumé that were encoded with it. Instead of re-encoding his portfolio, Rota and German hacker Max Morice decided to reverse engineer the codec, which "took about a week".[7] < 1280690522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never dealt with qt on windows back then < 1280690528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did deal with it on mac < 1280690536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "DivX" brand is distinct from "DIVX" (Digital Video Express), an unrelated attempt by the now defunct U.S. retailer Circuit City to develop a video rental system requiring special discs and players.[1] The winking emoticon in the early "DivX ;-)" codec name was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the failed DIVX system. The DivX company then adopted the name of the popular DivX ;-) codec (which was not created by them), dropped the smiley and released DivX < 1280690536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0, which was actually the first DivX version. (Note that DivX ;-) and DivX are separate products and are created by different people; the former is not an older version of the latter). The DivX name is its trademark.[2][3] It is pronounced DIV-ex. < 1280690542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, myst for mac uses qt for the embedded animations and such < 1280690547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So note that DivX as you know it is NOT affiliated with, or based on, the old DivX ;-). < 1280690550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just stole the name. < 1280690554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is even older < 1280690576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had the attention span for Myst. Gimme Monkey Island. < 1280690586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ffmpeg + libao seems to be a way better solution than Xine and GStreamer. < 1280690589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't everything use it? < 1280690617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never played monkey island < 1280690622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I am not getting old myself; my Emacs font is really big. < 1280690624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not based on, but I remember videos from the time of the smiley. They're all "sort-of MPEG-4 except not" anyway. < 1280690629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and does it surprise you that I had the required attention span? < 1280690634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1280690638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to solve it without walkthroughs < 1280690640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you've said you have severe ADHD. < 1280690645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I didn't. < 1280690651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you did. < 1280690654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I had *light* ADHD < 1280690668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I thought you said bad ADHD becoming light ADHD w/ Ritalin. < 1280690690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, also I said it in /msg under condition of keeping it there iirc. < 1280690696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1280690705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; I didn't remember. < 1280690713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telling me things is usually a bad idea. :P < 1280690719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... < 1280690736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. myst was fun < 1280690739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myst was nice; I got it as a birthday present when the Windows port was new, or at least new-ish. < 1280690749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked a lot better back then than it does when replayed today < 1280690770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you didn't noticed the dithering very much on an old performa (built in) CRT < 1280690782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was how everything looked on displays after all < 1280690796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CRT doesn't give a crystal clear picture like TFTs do < 1280690806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRTs don't* < 1280690866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw "Myst: Masterpiece Edition" somewhere in a bin; I'm a bit sorry that I didn't get it, but since I already had the original... (it has the graphics re-rendered as 24-bit bitmaps, as opposed to the 256-color palette+dithering ones; and also some works-better-in-newer-Windowses stuff). < 1280690900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, I run it in sheepshaver nowdays < 1280690908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? I actually *did* buy it? At least there's one of those tall-DVD-case-thingies in the shelf with "MYST: masterpiece edition" printed on it. < 1280690916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280690919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never played it? < 1280690922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BELIAL IS BACK < 1280690930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still needs a better name. < 1280690936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every graphic element has been upgraded to brilliant 24-bit color". < 1280690954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I... don't remember. I remember re-playing Myst not long ago, but I thought it was the old one, not this new one. < 1280690959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um. this sounds familiar. but no I can't locate wtf belial is < 1280690978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my vapourware music daemon < 1280690982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, time to replay yet again? < 1280690987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vapourware no more! Not another day I have to sleep at the unit: so I have time! < 1280690990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I should do is combine features of ImageMagick and SoX in one program called "Image Exchange" and -density sets the sample rate. And to play a audio file backwards and with echo you can type in: imx file1.wav -flop +echo play: < 1280690992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: "Larger and higher quality movies and animations"; after all, the book-entering animation clips in original Myst were something like 160x120 pixels. < 1280691003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh btw for that image, if you can't correct white balance, it might be worth a try to just do vignetting < 1280691040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and perhaps try without exposure correction. It could be what is messing up the sky. Well I don't know how it is messed up so hard to tell.. < 1280691054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And: "Proprietary DigitalGuide™ help system assists players of every skill level" < 1280691065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whaat? < 1280691093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of built-in walkthrough, I guess. < 1280691094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need a walkthrough... use google to find something at ign or whatever < 1280691105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built in ones is just... cheating < 1280691121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDX < 1280691122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*XD < 1280691126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember UHS. Anyone remember UHS? < 1280691129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1280691133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universal Hint System. < 1280691137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1280691138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I wrote a perl script to convert UHS files to a XML format. < 1280691141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd ask it a question about a game by clicking on it, and it'd give you a vague hint. < 1280691144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click again, more specific. < 1280691150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After -- I think on the fifth hint -- it told you outright. < 1280691162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program plus a few hint files for games could fit on one floppy. < 1280691163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, was this in the game or a separate product? < 1280691167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separate product. < 1280691170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280691178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems it still exists. < 1280691180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.uhs-hints.com/ < 1280691194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vague hint for an entire game... that doesn't work for most games < 1280691198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280691201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one specific puzzle. < 1280691203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever. < 1280691205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside the game it would have a bunch of little problems you might encounter, then you could just click to get more and more specific hints. < 1280691225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the most... tasteful hint system existing, with the discretion and all. < 1280691248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's uhs2xml.pl, xml2html.pl and showxml.pl here. < 1280691248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of lots of games where this fails. works mostly for RPGs, adventure and similar. < 1280691259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is where it is most needed < 1280691290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to audio, imx also needs a block-JPEG to perform lossless transformations on JPEG file by keeping the blocks compressed < 1280691310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have also written a hint system called IFHINT < 1280691330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Where would it fail? < 1280691331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not know how it compares with UHS) < 1280691338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't work well for very open ended adventure or rpg games where you have absolutely no clue what to do next. Granted, they are much more rare than mostly railroaded games, but still. they exist. < 1280691355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well open ended strategy games < 1280691360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty useless for that I guess < 1280691366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1280691375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, it doesn't work well for very open ended adventure or rpg games where you have absolutely no clue what to do next. Granted, they are much more rare than mostly railroaded games, but still. they exist. < 1280691379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this long. < 1280691392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have completed the Seven Trials, killed Morgggot, and retrieved the chicken. What do I do now?" < 1280691393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing UHS files needs some care in the question-titling business; if they're too explicit, you can deduce too much; if too vague, they'll be difficult to find. < 1280691398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1280691405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yay! < 1280691413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what were the thoughts? < 1280691423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See /msg. < 1280691438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was thinking about the kind of game where you could side with either side of a conflict for completely different gameplay, and possibly change in the middle < 1280691462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even do the "your own side, fight both" style. < 1280691473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There'd be a (One Side) and (Other Side) superheading, then. < 1280691481 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h132.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691491 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280691518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; there's an arbitrary tree of questions/subquestions, and then each hint has an arbitrary list of answers, revealed one by one. < 1280691549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree? needs to be arbitrary graph for the kind of game I'm thinking about < 1280691574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't: you don't have to traverse the tree in order. < 1280691584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs to be browseable so that you find what you're looking for. < 1280691584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a human reading it, after all. < 1280691619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conifer? I 'ardly knew 'er! < 1280691658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of game I'm thinking about is _exceedingly_ rare, but exists. Most examples that come to mind are user created modules or such to open ended RPG game engines. Major companies seems to hate truly open ended RPGs. Probably because it is a lot more work. < 1280691703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, the format probably does work best for regular linear-ish (or at least fixed-content do-it-in-the-order-you-like) adventure games. < 1280691704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because players end up feeling lost. < 1280691757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, almost all MMORPGs fit that, they're just also "MMO" < 1280691784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I actually love the freedom of this kind of open ended gameplay. Especially if the game has D&D style alignment. If you play chaotic neutral in a rail roaded RPG you never really get the chance for being truly CN. < 1280691809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less of a problem for lawful of course. < 1280691817 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h162.0.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280691817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, Myst's DS port added a whole new age (Rime) to the plot. (I don't remember how it tied in to the Myst plot; ISTR it wasn't just "one more red/blue page to find" thing.) < 1280691843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280691847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS port < 1280691852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1280691854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo DS, that is. < 1280691861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I gathered that < 1280691879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other ways it was a pretty sucky port; bugs and such. < 1280691892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could write (with the stylus) in a notebook, that was a nice touch. < 1280691892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280691899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately the notebook only had one page.) < 1280691904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1280691920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty resource-limited system, and bitmaps take a lot of space. < 1280691953 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280691955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a review: "The Nintendo DS has the game at its worst: a poorly compressed, sometimes glitchy, game that relies entirely on visuals that are too hard to see for progression." < 1280691963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The reviewer is a Myst-hater, though.) < 1280691982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can anyone hate myst!? < 1280692001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lots of people hate it. < 1280692014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what grounds? < 1280692025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very dull. < 1280692029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1280692030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the puzzles are on the ... inexplicable side. < 1280692032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1280692033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there /are/ any puzzles. < 1280692044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are puzzles everywhere in myst! < 1280692050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're not walking. < 1280692051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endlessly. < 1280692067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do find it boring, yes. < 1280692113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I hate the FPS genre due to being too fast... so I guess there is a pattern here... < 1280692129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/due to/for/ < 1280692136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the "zip mode" (at least in the Windows port) to ease a bit on the clickery needed in walking, if you're already been somewhere and want to revisit it. < 1280692148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's in the mac one too < 1280692156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that is quite nice < 1280692222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst on mac at least was developed in hypercard I think... < 1280692230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280692239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that applies to the windows port < 1280692349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem in the DS port is that since there's no cursor, poking at random points might activate interactive things, but they might as well cause you to move somewhere; you'd know from the cursor shape. < 1280692383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280692384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since they shrunk everything to the DS's 256x192 pixel resolution, some of the things you need to poke with a stick are pretty tiny. < 1280692405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it have two screens? < 1280692410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that some other one? < 1280692418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one of them is a touchscreen. < 1280692422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280692443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a touchscreen, really. < 1280692446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More a stylusscreen. < 1280692453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but pokeable anyway. < 1280692454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*styluscreen < 1280692455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often there's main graphics in the upper screen, and then some sort of UI in the bottom. < 1280692467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokeable screen, awesome name < 1280692482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pokescreen." Or is that too pokemon? (Or too porn?) < 1280692494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how it could be porn... < 1280692496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1280692506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah too pokemon definitely < 1280692512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Finnish colloquialism for porn; it probably doesn't translate. < 1280692526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, pokes? Or pokescreen? < 1280692532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pokemon? < 1280692543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "poke". Not too common, but recognizable anyway. < 1280692624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FF3 port, IIRC, puts the 3D view on top, and a map on the styluscreen; you can poke at the corners of the screen to move in that direction. The equip/item/etc. menu opens over the map, as do the battle menus (and other battle stats). < 1280692661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF3 being? < 1280692666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final Fantasy 3. < 1280692669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280692702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Myst DS: "Even if you wanted to simply enjoy Myst's scenery, the grainy compression has shattered the beauty of the artistic design. What you see is a sad, freckled shell of the original game. The audio from the original game fares only slightly better: Hissing, scratching, and popping have turned CD-quality sound effects, dialogue, and gorgeous, ethereal music into a ham-radio affair." < 1280692725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1280692744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS' audio is awful. < 1280692750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DS's < 1280692772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst is best enjoyed with a peforma cd drive for the seeking noise. It had a very peculiar seeking noise. Not heard on modern computers < 1280692784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I very strongly associates myst with that sound < 1280692785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a screenshot: http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2008/133/939943_20080513_screen003.jpg -- that's the full-size image, 256 pixels wide; just zoom it in the browser to approximate how you'd probably hold the DS closer than the monitor. < 1280692807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a map? that's ruining point of the whole thing < 1280692817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those icons? wtf < 1280692822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a static map, though; it doesn't tell you where you are. < 1280692827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1280692833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Inventory, presumably. Maybe? < 1280692844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only carry one thing in Myst. :p < 1280692854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on that specific world part of the challenge was figuring out the other islands played any sort of part in the story < 1280692854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The third one is the scribble-notepad. < 1280692874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nhm, well, I guess. They were pretty visible from the screens, though. < 1280692886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And the map doesn't show how you've rotated the bridge, so it doesn't help in that. < 1280692896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there is scenery which is just scenery in many places < 1280692902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1280692916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't spoil it for alise ! < 1280692952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Myst_opening.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Realmyst_screen.png < 1280692959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh at the latter. Sure some stuff is better < 1280692974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why couldn't they keep the parts of better detail in the original < 1280692976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is a zoom thing, with which you can zoom what's shown in the bottom screen for easier viewing, but it just stretches the bitmap, there's no higher-resolution version stored anywhere. < 1280692979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does Myst run in ScummVM or anything? < 1280692995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the part of the boat, some rigging or something sticking out < 1280693002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs in Wine. < 1280693004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the bumps are real bumps in the original < 1280693005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Julian Assange should get out of the country, quickly. < 1280693008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Blergh. < 1280693009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the new one... just texture < 1280693018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which country and why? < 1280693021 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst was probably made in shockwave or something like that < 1280693029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hypercard on mac < 1280693032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was the original < 1280693039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what they used for PC < 1280693070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Pentagon are out to get him. < 1280693081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't he in hiding already? < 1280693086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, should go to iceland < 1280693116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leakhttp://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leak -- ok, ok, don't trust everything you read online, but i don't think The Daily Beast is known to be terribly inaccurate < 1280693130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 404 < 1280693139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, repeated link. < 1280693139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-10/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-hunted-by-pentagon-over-massive-leak < 1280693148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, I thought it was a bit on the long side < 1280693148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RealMyst had to run in real-time on whatever hardware there was in 2000, so they probably didn't have the polygons to spare to get all the details from the originals -- which were offline-rendered -- in. < 1280693149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“We’d like to know where he is; we’d like his cooperation in this,” one U.S. official said of Assange.]] < 1280693158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course when he gets to court he's fucked. No chance of a nice ruling there. < 1280693167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah true < 1280693213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think killing off Assange would stop any such leak. They most likely have the files spread and back up people to publish it < 1280693234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "While the new interactivity of the game was praised, realMyst ran extremely slowly on most computers of the time." Heh, maybe they also didn't try very hard. < 1280693248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realMyst: Interactive 3D Edition was a remake of Myst released in November 2000 for Windows PCs, and in January 2002 for Mac. Unlike Myst and the Masterpiece Edition, realMyst featured free-roaming, real-time 3D graphics instead of pre-rendered stills.[50] Weather effects like thunderstorms, sunsets, and sunrises were added to the Ages, and minor additions were made to keep the game in sync with the story of the Myst novels and sequels. The game also adde < 1280693248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d a new Age called Rime, which is featured in an extended ending. < 1280693253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So realMyst added Rime, not the DS version. < 1280693263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. That grassy area on the side is nicer in realmyst IMO < 1280693265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is all < 1280693266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the same Rime. < 1280693294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know how the iPhone version is. < 1280693312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads insurance.aes256, 1.4 GB. < 1280693315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Williams, Bryn (2009-05-04). "Massive Myst Clogs Up iPhone". GameSpy. http://www.gamespy.com/articles/979/979141p1.html. Retrieved 2009-05-04." Sounds good. < 1280693345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 700+-megabyte download is apparently considered "big" for an iPhone app. < 1280693352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course it is XD < 1280693357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You download that over WiFi. < 1280693373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need 1.5 gigs free during the installation; a copy is involved. Heh-eh. < 1280693393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "Assange appeared via Skype from Australia instead, saying lawyers recommended he not return to the United States.", if that is true I doubt he is in US < 1280693421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "quick access to hint guide" in the iMyst (no, they're not calling it that) too. < 1280693476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also that link is old < 1280693485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it seems they've shrunk it down, the current iOS 4 compatible version is only 533 MB. I might even invest the $5 if I had an iDevice.) < 1280693487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can tell it is before the afghan war diary stuff < 1280693540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it can only inflame. < 1280693559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I presume this insurance file is all the /rest/ of the documents the White House have begged him not to release about this stuff, encrypted with AES-256. < 1280693573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, he will post the key if he feels threatened by the govt. < 1280693581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Length: 309809152 (295M) [application/octet-stream] < 1280693585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said >1GB, Wikileaks. < 1280693587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You LIED. < 1280693626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? where? < 1280693650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Afghan_War_Diary,_2004-2010 < 1280693655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The silently added insurance.aes256. < 1280693661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280693676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, wikileaks is slow atm < 1280693714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SHA-1 is wrong. < 1280693716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it truncated. < 1280693718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*truncated... < 1280693732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1280693741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking wget. < 1280693743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is doing it alright. < 1280693755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1280693787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, considering how slow the download page was to load, I very much suspect that overloaded server might be the cause. < 1280693856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT < 1280693865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID I HAVE TO MAKE THIS SO CRASHPROOF < 1280693869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ??? < 1280693890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that deserves some explanation < 1280693893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the code that starts the thing in a try, some stuff in a catch, and the whole thing in a while(true) < 1280693898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now want to kill it < 1280693905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could run it on a different host < 1280693909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 pid-goes-here < 1280693923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's not running on a computer I have access to < 1280693930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Memling_Vanity_and_Salvation.jpg (NSFW, WTF) < 1280693955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The self-restarts in a sense on exceptions aren't perfect, due to poor code design < 1280693956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, seen that before. Hisotorical context. < 1280693959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot details < 1280693964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check image page for "used in" < 1280693967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This triptych contrasts earthly beauty and luxury with the prospect of death and hell." < 1280693969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should help < 1280693970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty WTF. < 1280693997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, someone has snipped out just the bit with nakedness: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Hans_Memling_Vanit%C3%A9_ca_1490.jpg XD < 1280694142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, google news search on wikileaks insurance aes256: "all 477 news articles »" < 1280694148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a bit of coverage < 1280694153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming all are related < 1280694156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1280694160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just wikileaks, I bet < 1280694178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1280694271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why Wikileaks didn't manually look for informant's names and only release documents known for certain not to contain them? < 1280694347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they release any with informant's names? < 1280694366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, no one could tell if it was just random data to scare with < 1280694370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that file I mean < 1280694396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes iirc it turned out they did so < 1280695343 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280695415 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280695790 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280695833 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280696302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what kernel do i select in ubuntu 7.04 install? < 1280696308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-generic froze the install last time i tried < 1280696312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I choose the specific name? < 1280696317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *linux-kernel I think. maybe not < 1280696442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... < 1280696446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which file system? < 1280696460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1280696461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it froze for me for about 20 minutes with jfs and about 10 with ext3 < 1280696464 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are commands in TeX to calculate the minimum width of a paragraph (with no hyphenation)? < 1280696470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O what?! < 1280696472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it freeze that much < 1280696478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have no idea < 1280696484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to rectify it? < 1280696489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, logs showed the vm was trying to catch up time drift < 1280696501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ext3 is what it does when you just let it go with the whole disk, right? < 1280696503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failed < 1280696503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is. < 1280696506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh. So it eventually resolved? < 1280696519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well with ext3 it did. It did take an awful lot of time though < 1280696524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with jfs I gave up after 20 minutes < 1280696547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I used noatime mount option on ext3, no idea if that was signficiant or not < 1280696555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway linux-generic just maps to one of the other ones < 1280696558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last version or such < 1280696570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about commands in TeX? < 1280696610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, clarify that question please What exactly do you mean < 1280696632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is "commands" some package? < 1280696640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pure TeX. < 1280696652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea. I use LaTeX < 1280696658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, I used noatime mount option on ext3, no idea if that was signficiant or not <-- is this likely to speed it up? < 1280696670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has no idea < 1280696672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no clue. < 1280696681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clue < 1280696682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it might < 1280696699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, theoretically it should perhaps, no need to update atime field < 1280696703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could hardly slow it down < 1280696709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there was some bug < 1280696712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I mean, the huge lag. < 1280696715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could that be related? < 1280696721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not. < 1280696726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean Plain TeX. I want to calculate the minimum possible width of a box that a paragraph will fit into with no hyphenation or overfull boxes. < 1280696729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's time drift instead. < 1280696729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and since iirc noatime is not default and you hit that lag too. That is assuming you did defaults < 1280696738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1280696747 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no overlapping text. < 1280696747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not sure if the time drift is actually causing the slow down or just side effect < 1280696775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it might very well be caused by the VM hogging it's CPU to 100% in debconf during that time < 1280696781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it turns out top installed before kernel < 1280696789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could chroot into the install and run top < 1280696791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280696817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just go to alt-f2, oh and it reports current status on alt-f4 or such < 1280696820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it's responsive? < 1280696823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, apt-get output < 1280696825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kernel did you pick? < 1280696833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, default one < 1280696846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it doesn't matter really since they are just generic aliases of each other < 1280696848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the command to use if you want to test if a GNU/Linux system is running too slow: time seq 1 1000000 < 1280696855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, blame expert install for showing the option at all probably < 1280696862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why? < 1280696868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1280696881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, need it for the shadow option however < 1280696881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: For one, that's IO-bound. Heavily. You want >/dev/null. < 1280696885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, there are many implementations of seq. < 1280696888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For three, why?! < 1280696892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, modifying that after the fact turned out to be quite a mess. < 1280696917 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is meaning in case you want to count multiple things at once including I/O and things. < 1280696923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough that I did a reinstall < 1280696948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, using QEMU to emulate an x86-64 machine is a bitch. < 1280696959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1280696964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is because although I have a 64-bit processor, it does not support virtualisation, so VirtualBox can't do 64-bit on it. < 1280696965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus slowness. < 1280696970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it isn't /that/ slow < 1280696972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow. < 1280696975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, you know, could be a bit faster. < 1280696982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My processor does that too... < 1280696997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, as far as I can tell it stalls (or seems to?) in generating the initrd or possibly depmod. This is based on output on alt-f4 < 1280697030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't know if you drink coffee, but this is the kind of place where guides would suggest you go make a cup of it to pass the time :P < 1280697040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it suggests tea. < 1280697043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in the good manuals. < 1280697052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command "time seq 1 1000000" doesn't test everything and also won't do only one thing for testing, but it is good as a simple way to test multiple things at once < 1280697054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that "trope" of manuals seems mostly gone nowdays < 1280697067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't remember it being tea in any case I read about < 1280697069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't seem to be a coffee machine in the kitchen and I'm not about to drink instant coffee, so I don't drink coffee much. That's probably a good thing. < 1280697078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1280697080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've never seen coffee. Maybe I read better manuals than you. :P < 1280697088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink coffee < 1280697106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or British manuals rather than American ones. That could be a significant factor < 1280697117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use much British software, as far as I know. < 1280697132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish ones would probably suggest coffee. It is by far more common than tea here < 1280697140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe localised manuals. Who knows. I don't think they'd localise that; only open-sourcey and other thrifty projects have it, and those don't tend to get localised across dialects of English. < 1280697145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, yes, I'm talking English ere. < 1280697162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I'm not sure which language I read it in < 1280697168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably both English and Swedish < 1280697195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human memory is not perfect < 1280697285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, that 10 minutes was for virtualbox with hardware virt < 1280697296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu is in my experience slower... < 1280697310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much varies < 1280697313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was with kvm < 1280697325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without kvm... you might have to wait a bit more than 10 minutes < 1280697333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hopefully not though < 1280697360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does KVM work if your processor doesn't do that virtualisin' thang? < 1280697365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no < 1280697368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1280697370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not afaik < 1280697371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then no luckz. < 1280697383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. Also how fast cpu? < 1280697392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1280697396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange sound < 1280697413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.33 GHz or something; ultra low voltage. But don't be fooled; it runs a ton of Firefox and other windows very snappily and quickly on bloated old Ubuntu. < 1280697416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... lots of small muffled explosions after each other < 1280697420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's no slowpoke. It /is/ Core 2 Duo, after all. < 1280697435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 5-10 / second, went on for maybe 4 or 5 seconds < 1280697436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1280697439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from outside < 1280697444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1280697454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my cpu is Core 2 Duo @ 2.26 GHz btw < 1280697489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looking at top and virtualbox's harddrive icon it seemed that whatever thing it stalled at was CPU bound, not IO bound < 1280697508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. I can wait for indefinite amounts of time as long as I know it's not frozen. < 1280697516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It froze at 8x% -- is this your experience too? < 1280697523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x%? < 1280697531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was when installing kernel I know < 1280697553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it froze a short while at 8x% I think, and then the 10 minute freeze at 92% or such < 1280697559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was like about a minute or so < 1280697562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It froze for a few minutes at 8x% for me. < 1280697565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1280697567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1280697577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, slower cpu, no hw virt. What can you expect? < 1280697580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you calculate the shortest width of hbox that a paragraph will fit into with no overfills, hyphenation, or overlapped text? < 1280697586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't you have one with hw virt? < 1280697603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you did < 1280697633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I'm really curious as to what debconf was doing, since it was it that was using 99% CPU during the second stall at least < 1280697633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; an AMD box and an iMac. < 1280697638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, I like this little box. It's dinky! < 1280697643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the actual hostname. < 1280697650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what was the screen res? < 1280697662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1366x768; which, on a 13" screen, gives it a lovely dpi. < 1280697668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough to have a few windows on the same screen. < 1280697702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, opengenera uses a 800x600 window (do not resize, I haven't tried, but the snap4 README said that if you do that, BAD things will happen). And a bitmapped font that is kind of hard to read on my thinkpad at times. < 1280697720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you can save state in vmware, in case you need to continue next weekend I mean < 1280697734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed, the screen is so high-quality and high-dpi that /slight-hinted RGB subpixel rendering by (patent-patched) freetype/ actually *has no noticeable subpixels*. < 1280697740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally. Even if you lean your head in and strain to see. < 1280697749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks even better than OS X's subpixel rendering. < 1280697752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah yeah, but opengenera can only use bitmapped fonts < 1280697758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so those will do you no good here < 1280697758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual font rendering isn't up to snuff, of course, but the subpixel... < 1280697761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 800x600 is fine. < 1280697766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise, you can save state in vmware, in case you need to continue next weekend I mean < 1280697766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU < 1280697769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would I need to? < 1280697770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1280697771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more sleepin' < 1280697781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox can save state too IIRC. < 1280697782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you got discharged? < 1280697784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1280697788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu you mean < 1280697795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant VirtualBox. < 1280697796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not discharged. < 1280697797 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280697798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just daypatient. < 1280697805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh wait < 1280697812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write vmware, and meant virtualbox < 1280697815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how funny < 1280697816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280697821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes vmware can too < 1280697836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can qemu though? < 1280697867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you show up sleep deprived though... things might start looking bad for you again < 1280697871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1280697882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at hiding it. < 1280697887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I look tired on Mondays anyway. < 1280697898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But no, I'm on the "fast track" to being discharged in September. < 1280697901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to peace of course ... < 1280697902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. I know I personally fail at hiding lack of sleep < 1280697904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello ais523! < 1280697909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1280697914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I can stay awake, unless at home... but even so < 1280697918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not well hidden < 1280697934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes hi ais523 < 1280697951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you reach any clarity in that esr/ick/knuth issue? < 1280697954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can survive on five hours of sleep and after a bit of yawning I'm okay after noon. < 1280697959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then by evening I crash. < 1280697960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's still happening < 1280697977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't heard anything except the initial statement < 1280697982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything new since then? < 1280697991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just technical details < 1280698002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no reason why? < 1280698039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is INTERCAL, who needs reasons? < 1280698047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're trying to compile a huge repo of all known C-INTERCAL history < 1280698055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1280698066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like every revision and version? < 1280698068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of ick? < 1280698071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280698073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all known c-intercal code? < 1280698080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it wasn't versioned particularly well in the past < 1280698083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't forget my port to MPW < 1280698085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the older history is a bit flaky < 1280698102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably only I have the foggiest idea how to compile that though < 1280698111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have more history, like the MPW port, you could reply to the a.kl < 1280698113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a.l.i post < 1280698126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I only have read only access to a.l.i < 1280698136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or usenet at all rather < 1280698141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'd like to revisit my statements re Myst "it works in Wine"; ScummVM does have a "WIP" version of the Mohawk engine used by Myst/windows (as well as Riven and the Masterpiece Edition redo), and it's even in the SVN repo and does something; presumably not very playable yet, but last commit three weeks ago so it's not quite dead either; http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Myst < 1280698144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW :) < 1280698148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This thing didn't exist, last I looked at it.) < 1280698150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone can use Google Groups < 1280698153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, you got the patch I think? I can link you to it otherwise < 1280698159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have it < 1280698164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster can't use Google Groups, they'll steal his inner goodness! < 1280698178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even I'm a bit paranoid about it, to the extent of deleting cookies afterwards < 1280698179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ScummVM is rapidly becoming AnyDamnThingVM! < 1280698191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Google filtered more tightly than pretty much any other website < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was recently asked to < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare a new INTERCAL release by no less a personage than Donald < 1280698205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth, who wants to feature an INTERCAL program in his next book. < 1280698205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see the files starting at ick on this url http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ < 1280698206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's why. < 1280698212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see logs for url < 1280698216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I can give < 1280698218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knwo < 1280698219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell Knuth that he should clearly use /your/ C-INTERCAL >:D < 1280698221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1280698227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey, it's backwards-compatible < 1280698231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth cannot stoop so low to use esr software! < 1280698247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the current plan is to merge the ais and esr branches < 1280698248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however there is still that issue with ick generating C89 code that MPW doesn't like < 1280698251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new release will probably spew neoconservative propaganda on startup. >:) < 1280698253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What, forever? < 1280698255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not. < 1280698257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, something I never got around to trying to work around < 1280698265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, forgot exactly what it didn't like too < 1280698277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: qemu does have VM snapshots, yes. < 1280698300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, esr made other changes? < 1280698303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't dead? < 1280698314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a few, it seems < 1280698328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none are particularly objectionable or controverisal < 1280698335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as many as I did, anyway < 1280698340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and another issue... I think I versioned it in bzr, I found darcs a bit annoying at that point. < 1280698341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280698364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about binaries. Do you know about the two forks classic MacOS used to have? < 1280698402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280698433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that while I could compile it for you, there is no way I could send it in a format that could be read anywhere except on classic mac OS. Either *.sit.hqx or *.sit.bin or .img.hqx or .img.bin < 1280698438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is a disk image < 1280698444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :created by disc copy for classic mac os < 1280698449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x might be able to read it < 1280698451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1280698457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't an os x disk image however < 1280698466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the sources are enough < 1280698472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, see that url < 1280698476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, noted < 1280698480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hope the patch applies cleanly and such < 1280698486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't against last version < 1280698501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and note: the patch is not ASCII or ISO-* < 1280698509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is MacRoman in part, this can not be avoided < 1280698518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MPW makefiles makes use of those symbols < 1280698524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work without them < 1280698528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280698534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces stuff like : in normal makefiles and such < 1280698571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I'm not sure if that might change line ending in some other file. Probably best to be very careful with what you apply to your own ick from that. The fixes for generating paths should work though < 1280698589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lengthy comment there about why exactly and so on < 1280698601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'd have to be utterly crazy to backport fixes intended to run on MacOS Classic < 1280698603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there were some pepet.c changes since system() won't work < 1280698620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the optimal alternative would be to instead patch autoconf to handle that operating system < 1280698622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I meant if you want to apply to your own branch < 1280698626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1280698662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the fix to generating paths and some of the stuff in perpet.c, plus some fixes to add some extra checks to configure.ac (unless I misremember) should all be fine < 1280698669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the changes you should be wary about are outside the src dir < 1280698691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What character replaces : again? < 1280698705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh, don't remember and doubt I could copy it anyway < 1280698722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could recreate it with Unicode. Was it that S section symbol? < 1280698737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well let me open the file < 1280698744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and change encoding < 1280698754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since *nix editor goes spare over this patch < 1280698776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-#line 238 "lexer.l" < 1280698777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#line 248 "lexer.l" < 1280698777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280698782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thousands of lines like that < 1280698788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the pre-generated files < 1280698793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes macs need them < 1280698825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that was another issue yeah. macs mangle \r and \n in a way similar to windows. The reverse of it that is < 1280698836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\r maps to \n and \n maps to \r < 1280698838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know all about classic mac line endings < 1280698839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1280698846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but how stdio mangled I meant < 1280698864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone asks me why people sometimes use \n and sometimes use code to generate a particular line ending < 1280698881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tell them that it's to work around a bug on classic Mac OS, and as nobody uses that any more they can just use \n safely < 1280698902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280698906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Has some sort of conversion happened to http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick_classic_macppc.diff or is it the web server or what? If I wget/curl it, the file has UTF-8 0xfffd (Unicode "replacement character") in those places you'd expect uncommon characters. < 1280698911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, kate doesn't have macroman < 1280698923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um, it shouldn't < 1280698926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very bad < 1280698934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, must be broken diff < 1280698942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or crappy webserver. < 1280698955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doubt it, it servers it as application/octet-stream < 1280699061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523, okay, working on fixing up a new diff < 1280699070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not using hg diff this time, it seems at fault < 1280699094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to replace the old one? < 1280699123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, I'm going to try to diff against exported r1 (clean import) and exported last revision < 1280699128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with diff < 1280699139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work I'll just upload both as tarballs or something < 1280699274 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280699318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... < 1280699477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on "iconv -f mac" and Wikipedia's "Mac OS Roman" table, it replaces the : in makefiles with ƒ -- unicode "latin small letter f with hook" -- and backslashes with ∂ -- unicode "partial differential". I remembered they were freaky from some MPW playing back then, but I didn't remember them to be quite *that* freaky, assuming the sources I looked at were correct. < 1280699497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the last version < 1280699530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how urgent is this? I think it may take a few hours for me to figure out which dir is the current. since the sources on the mac image doesn't perfectly match the last source control version < 1280699535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really urgent < 1280699561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should numerals.c be part of libick.a? < 1280699561 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1280699568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o not .c < 1280699577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o i c < 1280699581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes IIRC < 1280699587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1280699594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this difference makes no sense < 1280699601 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an august day! < 1280699671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets mmap limit to 0 and starts sheepshaver < 1280699953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these logs are too long. again. < 1280699954 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@80-123-35-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280699989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is starting to make a tiny bit more sense now < 1280700017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that clearly means you are finally going insane < 1280700050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, c-intercal port to classic mac os making sense, yes probably < 1280700060 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280700070 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1280700555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay I made sense of the changes to the source. I will actually try to clean this up into several patches. Some of which should be applied to your own branch really since they are somewhat generic in nature < 1280700730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Based on "iconv -f mac" and Wikipedia's "Mac OS Roman" table, it replaces the : in makefiles with ƒ -- unicode "latin small letter f with hook" -- and backslashes with ∂ -- unicode "partial differential". I remembered they were freaky from some MPW playing back then, but I didn't remember them to be quite *that* freaky, assuming the sources I looked at were correct. < 1280700734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think partial differential is backspace < 1280700740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since \{foo}\ is a var in the shell < 1280700741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1280700745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :∂{foo}∂ < 1280700763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280700996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used as a line-continuation character there, anyway. < 1280701050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I've seen it literally where I'd expect a backspace, so I confirm your sources are correct. < 1280701084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M'k. < 1280701099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K'm. < 1280701106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's possible to just look at https://gforge.uni.lu/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/*checkout*/tags/revision-1.0/expat-2.0.1/lib/Makefile.MPW?revision=271&root=hpc-ga-bench&pathrev=272 as an example, and set browser's character encoding to macroman. < 1280701134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what's up with the "{•foo•}" bits though. < 1280701185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the local sed-alike invocation: StreamEdit -d e "/•('XMLPARSEAPI('≈') ')«0,1»'XML_'([A-Za-z0-9_]+)®1'('/ Print 'XML_' ®1" "{HdrDir}expat.h" > {Targ} < 1280701753 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280701847 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280701997 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280702375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick-mac-patches.tar.gz < 1280702380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see that url in log < 1280702394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tarball contains a directory of patches < 1280702399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one fixing a small thing < 1280702405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should make it easier to apply < 1280702417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is against ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz as far as I know < 1280702432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and configure will need to be regenerated afterwards < 1280702444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it only includes diff to configure.ac, not to configure itself < 1280702465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac Roman, Macro Man. < 1280702475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I checked the file in the tar ball < 1280702484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains strange stuff that is not 0xfffd < 1280702488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much I know < 1280702490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't saying anything about you. < 1280702664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, for no reason, a classic PFSC: http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/comics/00000028.gif < 1280702682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280702690 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280702833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *prod* < 1280702843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've seen it < 1280702859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw I get why you want to build all historic ick versions. But what has knuth got to do with it? < 1280702879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he seems to want a new version < 1280702885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hum < 1280702894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants esr to make a new release, because he is including a C-INTERCAL program in his next book. < 1280702895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why all historic then < 1280702902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to merge all branches into one < 1280702902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1280702911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, easier to merge branches if you know what they are < 1280702914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would be lovely, but is improbable < 1280702920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what Knuth wants. < 1280702924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: esr and ais523 are participating. there is nobody else. < 1280702927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is happening < 1280702930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280702937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you can't disappoint knuth < 1280702938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include in TAOCP? < 1280702942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other book? < 1280702943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upsetting knuth is like ... Basically, just kill yourself. < 1280702945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i doubt TAOCP < 1280702948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some other book. < 1280702950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew* < 1280702953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280702957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although ... that would be awesome. < 1280702971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but unlikely since it isn't written in MMIX < 1280702974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here we present rinky-dink sort in INTERCAL, a popular programming language." < 1280702980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280702993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can contrast the structure with the MMIX version, as they both have very different control structures. However, there are some similarities." < 1280702995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is rinky-dinky sort btw? < 1280703005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth's new O(1) sorting algorithm over any list. < 1280703006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it would only be efficient in INTERCAL, whatever it is < 1280703015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's important to get a new release. < 1280703021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1280703025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare for INTERCAL to be more efficient than other languages, except in lines of code < 1280703029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's compiled via other languages < 1280703053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, at least one of the patches in that tarball fixes a code gen error that makes generated code sometimes not valid C89 < 1280703067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280703086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ais523, basically without 04_output_valid_c89.patch you can sometimes get zero length static arrays in the generated output < 1280703093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't logread. < 1280703098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1280703100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try MemoServ. < 1280703105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280703109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll mention it next time < 1280703211 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280703233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and btw, not all of that can be compiled in sheepshaver. it is too buggy. I remember some file crashing sheepshaver. Had to compile it on my old ibook then copy the object file over < 1280703278 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I got the Icoruma->TeX to work. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.dvi < 1280703323 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everybody. < 1280703325 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1280703350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1280703426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now is the time you ar expected to complain about the formatting being no good ... < 1280703460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why dvi? < 1280703468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdftex produces better results < 1280703473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pdf is nodways an open format < 1280703479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nodways. < 1280703495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't be better unless he uses lmodern < 1280703501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think there's plain tex support for lmodern. < 1280703518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make it produce PDF as well, if you want. < 1280703519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvi2ps -> dvi2pdf actually produces worse results than pdflatex < 1280703530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pdftex < 1280703535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are doing plain tex < 1280703550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, my point is, avoid going over dvi < 1280703573 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I have now both DVI and PDF. < 1280703582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.pdf < 1280703597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, with hyperref (latex only? I have no idea) you can get clickable links for the TOC in the pdf and so on < 1280703606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperref is latex only < 1280703612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280703613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything else < 1280703623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why are you using plain tex instead of latex? < 1280703629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he considered latex too complex < 1280703633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and couldn't get tables working properly. < 1280703645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't knock plain tex/dvi too hard though, Knuth still writes everything in it :-D < 1280703651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because Plain TeX works better, and I understand it. < 1280703655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he has impeccable typographical taste < 1280703669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, one minor point, on page 9 there is a table, the table is left aligned while the "Table 2-1" caption is centered < 1280703679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would probably look better if both were the same < 1280703688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go for both centered in a float < 1280703689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both should be centred < 1280703692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1280703698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :centred, not centered :P < 1280703714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're no longer in the ()? < 1280703719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the ()? < 1280703728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280703734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster,alise: Yes I do believe you. I just haven't completed it yet, but the part that works it now works. I will fix these things < 1280703737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, me being silly obfuscating what I mean. < 1280703742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unit < 1280703779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, I believe there is a way of doing hyperlinks with Plain TeX, since I have seen CWEB printouts that use it (and CWEB uses Plain TeX) < 1280703786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hyphenation? < 1280703798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have to use \special or whatever, though < 1280703805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there is one < 1280703817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was worried something was broken at first < 1280703819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seems fine < 1280703828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some authors do not like hyphenation < 1280703848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned off hyphenation in tables, for one thing, otherwise I would keep getting overfull hboxes < 1280703850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tex is quite good at avoiding it when possible < 1280703851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes alise  < 1280703865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am poke'd < 1280703877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well in tables it might make sense. Also overful hboxes is not really an issue unless something actually looks wrong in the result < 1280703878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm there - as daypatient, thrice weekly. < 1280703889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better than before, at least < 1280703894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyphenation is a Good Thing < 1280703965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, quite nice. The only issue I saw was that table not being centred < 1280703977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and it will be fixed later on. < 1280703978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that using pdflatex with lmodern would produce better results < 1280704003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have both PDF and DVI now. But I am not using LaTeX < 1280704010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye for now < 1280704015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the font manages to be a bit blurry on my monitor < 1280704223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, AnMaster, you're good at paging and stuff, right? < 1280704235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at paging and stuff? < 1280704278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, on x86-64 can you page to an address that the machine doesn't support? < 1280704278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 'cause you're BORING :P < 1280704301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With more than 40 bits of address, I mean. < 1280704316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Wooble to be a jerk to me again so I can whack him with the institution bat. >_> < 1280704350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooble? < 1280704520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Agora player; tends to be an asshole. To everyone. < 1280704531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, thoughts? < 1280704553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do think you can use all 48 bits in virtual addresses; 40 bits is just how many physical address bits there are. < 1280704573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 bits‽ Not nearly enough! < 1280704574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it pretty much say that? "address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual" < 1280704578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need 64! < 1280704586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need 64? < 1280704591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complicated. < 1280704610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, like that Facebook relationship status. < 1280704618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280704622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think alise has been encouraging him < 1280704630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is "widowed". < 1280704663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need 64 ... < 1280704667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280704721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this is some sort of SECRET POR-JECT of you folks. Sounds SUSPICIOUS; expect a visit from the COPS, just in case it has to do with 64-BIT DRUGS. < 1280704767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear digital drugs are the latest thing: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/digital-drugs/ < 1280704778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're persistent offenders < 1280704794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those things. < 1280704816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They're gateway drugs to really dangerous sequences of bits. < 1280704823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; available on YouTube. Even if they did work that will utterly destroy any actual binaural qualities in it. < 1280704832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason binaural things are distributed losslessly. < 1280704913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280704914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the article _starts_ talking about MP3s... < 1280704940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use MP3 to mean any audio file nowadays. < 1280704962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put it past Wired, let alone a *blog* on wired.com. < 1280704979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People u < 1280704991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least here) use "MP3" to refer to portable media players. < 1280704997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How many songs do you have on your MP3?" < 1280705008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My MP3 is the red one: it can store more songs than the silver one." < 1280705071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same people use "web" to mean "a instant messaging conversation performed with the aid of a webcam". As in, "I was in web with so-and-so, and ..." < 1280705084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the wired articles doesn't really seem to be taking this seriously :D < 1280705091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*article < 1280705138 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280705182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language: driving prescriptists mad since the ancient babylonians < 1280705190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prescriptivists < 1280705194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prescriptivists...dammit < 1280705226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should have just dropped his own correction and chastised alise for taking the hook < 1280705228 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280705242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how ironic < 1280705261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very meta < 1280705289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never meta very I didn't like. < 1280705307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1280705316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what his mouth is doing < 1280705356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's a reason binaural things are distributed losslessly. <-- ? < 1280705373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1280705374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnord fnord fnord fnord. < 1280705382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280705383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they require lots of crazy pitches and shit to "work" (if they do work at all) < 1280705395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychoacoustic compression is designed for the sound of music and the like, not precision < 1280705398 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280705466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the perfect weapon for those evil-AI-in-a-not-quite-perfect-box things < 1280705474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not strange that something you're not supposed to consciously notice is messed by a compression method based on keeping only noticeable features of the sound and throwing away all the rest. < 1280705531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the "joint stereo" stuff would probably horribly break all that fluff. Assuming any of it does anything, that is. < 1280705765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: who's responsible if a low-bitrate encoding of a drug-soundclip causes some kid to think he's an orange and peel himself with a knife? The codec author? Ratifier of the corresponding standard? These are important questions. < 1280705792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat? < 1280705818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the wired link for contect. < 1280705833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text. < 1280705900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Asleep now.) < 1280705932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie sleepIRCs. < 1280705934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1280705960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, fizzie, after reading the wired link I can only conclude that people from the onion invaded their office < 1280705966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that weird < 1280706411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they've been listening to drugs < 1280706930 0 :charlls!~charlls@200.75.255.24 JOIN :#esoteric