< 1277942925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277944224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... From wisdom of crowds stuff: Task 1k random people to develop new nutrional guidelines and then do study of what those do to health. Wheither one would or would not want to see that depends on relative priorities of caring for others vs. how much one wants to see train wrecks... :-) < 1277944423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those recomendations would probably be total garbage (difficult to say better or worse than current official ones)... < 1277944751 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with current guidelines? < 1277944846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would say 'too much carbohydrates', but I won't... < 1277944990 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst part: They are almost impossible to follow without snacking on garbage... < 1277945175 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that the recomendations do not seem to be based on reality... < 1277945245 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that US nutrional recomendations are published by USDA (agriculture) and not by HHS (Health)? < 1277945345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, latest ones are in co-operation with HHS, but one can still tell where the priorities lie...) < 1277945385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old recommendations were, what, 11 servings of grains each day? < 1277945419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The really difficult questions: What causes metabolic syndrome? There are some suspect causes, some known not to be cause. But no unified model. < 1277945431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, 6-11 servings. < 1277945479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot fathom eating that much grain. < 1277945542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eat 5 times as much grain as meat, poultry, fish, beans, eggs, or nuts!" < 1277945588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What was it, 1 slice of bread = serving? "Eat a loaf of bread each day!" < 1277945616 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun "paradoxes" ("paradox" in food & health really means "we have the wrong model"): Whole milk is less fattening than skim milk. Epidemilogical studies pick association, animal studies pick causation. < 1277945689 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need to eat lots of grains, since grains are nutrient-poor (that's for white grains, whole grains can be even worse). < 1277945741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also comical that they stuck pretty much everything with protein together... < 1277945765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because apparently tofu and a steak are nutritionally equivalent. < 1277945863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun... Its impossible to satisfy both nutrional guidelines and what I think are healty macronutrient ratios (based on what has been observed in hunter-gatherers). Actually, only fundamental conflict is in saturated fat sector... < 1277945904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to say that the average US diet is any saner, but the government recommendations are fucking nuts. < 1277945914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tofu. Yuck. < 1277945924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I didn't refer to its taste). < 1277945929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now, eat a loaf of bread, but heaven forbid that you eat more than two pieces of fruit a day." < 1277945959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tofu is not bad when prepared well. (which it almost never is on this continent) < 1277946027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flavor-wise, that is. Nutritionally, you're looking at protein and not much else.) < 1277946031 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... Weren't fruits the second overhyped food group? Those tend to be quite high in sugar (of the apparently harmful kind)... < 1277946046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They said "2 a day". < 1277946076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as meats. And dairy products. < 1277946087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vegetables were 3-5 a day. < 1277946115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also said "use sparingly" on... All fats. *All* fats. < 1277946136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, at least new recomendations have all sugar <10E%. Here sugar is <25E% (insane). < 1277946152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's serving in dairy products? < 1277946196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cup of milk. (the measurement "cup") < 1277946312 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I would exceed that by quite a margin... :-) < 1277946344 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277946430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meats are good proein sources... < 1277946703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does that fear of cholesterol come from? Not even Keys (who IIRC started the whole 'saturated fat is bad'/'high cholesterol causes heart disease' crock) thought that dietary colesterol is important (unless you happen to be rabbit or hamster)... :-/ < 1277947136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... One (legendary) doctor had 4 patients that wanted to gain weight. So he had them drink 100g of olive oil a day... Didn't work... < 1277947304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with wrong model of things would call this "paradox"... :-) < 1277947438 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?925050 < 1277947713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277948228 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277948384 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277948830 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what makes you qualified to talk about nutrition, and others unqualified? Just asking.. < 1277948970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth has proposed a successor to TeX. < 1277948974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is XML. < 1277948979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reportedly < 1277948992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE HELL < 1277948992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm qualified... There are others way more qualified than me. But there are also others (includin "experts") that are way less qualified. < 1277949011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is NOT a human-usable syntax. < 1277949015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Obviously it should be full SML < 1277949020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is pure TeX < 1277949027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is more so than XML. < 1277949038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not to say that it's very usable, but... Ugh. < 1277949356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it's pretty obvious by now that was a joke < 1277949388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277949393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank God. < 1277950090 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277950149 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277950156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some website where you can bet on how far Knuth will get on TAOCP before he croaks? < 1277950178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quick on the way to being the greatest unfinished work of computer science < 1277950216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still the greatest work. < 1277950267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, yes, it is currently the greatest unfinished work, but you know what I mean) < 1277950398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:43:05 i wish oerjan was here < 1277950398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:43:31 are you talking about receiving head < 1277950402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY < 1277951021 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1277951188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like wyde < 1277951232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wyde is better than tyght < 1277952701 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277953710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does sideways add serve any direct arithmetic use or something? < 1277953761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sideways add? < 1277953800 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instruction on some architectures that takes two operands; the result has each bit set iff the first operand had it set and the second did not < 1277953833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so AND NOT, really? < 1277953851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half AND NOOT < 1277953852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sorry < 1277953855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that < 1277953865 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277953869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's count the number of bits that meet those conditions < 1277953888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: er, i feel a draft over my head < 1277953925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in MMIX (the spec for which I'm reading), it could serve to count bits set because there's no direct operation for that (just put it against an all-0 second operatnd) < 1277953987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, isn't that with 0x0 on the second operand the identity function? < 1277954019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said; I misspoke earlier < 1277954025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit-counting instruction < 1277954036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NOT against 0 is the identity operation, yes < 1277954043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "count the bits in X AND NOT Y" < 1277954121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know why one would want that particular combination often enough not to just construct it from simpler parts < 1277954168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Blame Knuth. < 1277954175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277954185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His architecture. < 1277954188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just Knuth; I researched it and it's existed physically before < 1277954227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, must be useful then :D < 1277954234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he *did* try to make MMIX a CPU ISA that one could actually use. < 1277954255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine he has some use in mind < 1277954299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cryptome.org/jya/sadd.htm < 1277954316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, saw that < 1277954322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's _very_ old < 1277954428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that page so far doesn't really imply that it did any AND NOT stuff before counting < 1277954731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, the matrix operations are cool < 1277954822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that string search use of sideways add looks interesting < 1277954832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but uses AND, not AND NOT) < 1277954943 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Population count unit... Geez... < 1277954991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very exotic instruction and optimized to ridiculous degree... < 1277955120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha: "Seriously, the milk section includes transparent cheese. Is that a new Kraft product?". < 1277955184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1277955220 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(referring to proposed 2010 dietary guidelines). < 1277955542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Knuth's fake architecture is designed with several instructions that no one would really want on a computer used only for educational purposes < 1277955674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not intended only for educational purposes. < 1277955703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is, but it's intended to be real-world usable so you actually learn something other than a bizarre educational subset of things. < 1277955719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1277955729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one instruction is described as "reserved for operating systems only" < 1277955737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice touch. < 1277955758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"details are in MMIXware", which is not part of TAOCP < 1277955811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fake architecture? < 1277955952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: in that it has no hardware implementations < 1277955990 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see an arcitecture that can only be simulated < 1277955996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it certainly could. < 1277956008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a quite reasonable RISC architecture. < 1277956026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Knuth and the guys responsible MIPS and Alpha. < 1277956063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he basically designed it so that you could put Linux on it < 1277956065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/diamondsigns/CP6.html < 1277956080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't mean that he actually made that a design goal, merely that it is sufficiently comprehensive to allow that) < 1277956125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words: he didn't want it to be a toy. < 1277956148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah (unlike MIX) < 1277956154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has compare-and-swap < 1277956228 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Compare-and-swap is absolute basic operation of multi-CPU operation. < 1277956264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, from that one can construct all manner of atomic operations and all basic multithread synchroninzation primitives. < 1277956297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277956302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of odd instructions? < 1277956322 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277956360 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What instructions no one would really want on real computer? < 1277956360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIVIDE-AND-CONQUER < 1277956372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL-THEN-ASK (for handling zombie processes) < 1277956387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: uh, the sideways add is a bit weird < 1277956406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIDE-SPLIT < 1277956423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sideways add? You mean population count? < 1277956445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it is defined of "the number of bits that are 1 in $Y and 0 in $Z" < 1277956479 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's somewhat odd. < 1277956506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one can use that as population count. Especially if MMIX has RISC-style zero register. < 1277956560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every operation has a form taking a constant as the third operand $Z, so yes, you can use it against 0 in one instruction < 1277956615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, internal interrupts involve jumps to low addresses < 1277956627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(internal being within a program; not an OS-level interrupt) < 1277956633 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No IDTR? < 1277956638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDTR? < 1277956661 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of interrupts there are within programs? < 1277956713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditions like integer overflow, divide by zero, or the like. Whether they are interrupts or just set flags is controllable, but if they are set as interrupts they all jump into the first few bytes of memory < 1277956735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the TRIP instruction, which causes a manual interrupt, seems weird < 1277956750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for starters, it involves a jump to address 0 < 1277956776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TRAP, which is an external interrupt, is by contrast quite useful and normal) < 1277956782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want first page not to be mapped... < 1277956794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well screw you. < 1277956814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it does not have paging AFAICT < 1277956831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It does, but you're running in userspace so YOU CAN'T TELL. < 1277956841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, a kernel could implement it on top of the OS < 1277956845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277956848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of the architecture < 1277956852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no architecture support < 1277956890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made an MMIX simulator that ran unhosted code for the sole purpose of running Linux on it. < 1277956895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sucker's got virtual memory. < 1277956919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, it may < 1277956925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some features left undescribed < 1277956928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so though < 1277956933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't enough room in the instruction table < 1277957004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yes it does < 1277957011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop hiding features in sideways comments, Knuth! < 1277957011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What all is segment descriptor in X86 is pretty crazy. There are ordinary code and data segments, but there's also TSSes, task gates, interrupt gates, exception gates, LDTs, etc... < 1277957035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is insane < 1277957047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason CISCs are going out of styles < 1277957063 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSSes: Hardware-assisted task swapping... < 1277957072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1277957074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, CISC is dead outside of 8-bit and 16-bit CPUs. < 1277957106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, modern x86 implementations are not CISC. They are RISC chips running a very fast x86 emulator. < 1277957107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the no-op for MMIX is entitled "SWYM", or "sympathize with your machinery" < 1277957120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, LDT is segment descriptor you stick into GDT. And some segment selectors reference entries in LDT. < 1277957166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, you know things suck when... < 1277957222 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and of course call gates. < 1277957325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to look into MMIXware to see if TRIP has a real use < 1277957852 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and x86 has expand-down segments, where segment limit is minimum address and not maximum address. As for why Linux/x86 doesn't set kernel CS to be expand-down: Expand-down code segments are not supported! < 1277958016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, x86's segmentation. < 1277958033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were crazy enough, you could use it *and* paging for virtual memory. < 1277958035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1277958265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System segment types: TSS (16 and 32 bit, available and busy variants of course), Call gates, Interrupt gates and trap gates (all with 16- and 32-bit variants). < 1277963178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277963209 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you value your independence and creativity, you should be aware that Apple doesn't. Take your computing elsewhere." -- FSF < 1277964123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if we get the FSF and Apple into a major battle, they'll destroy each other and the world will be a better place < 1277964174 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, are you sure that equivalent organizations (or company or so) won't arise after them? ;) < 1277964195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: there will be a Calm < 1277964205 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. < 1277964263 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964460 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277964460 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277964463 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964463 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1277965153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, you are proposing the plot of FFX as a solution. < 1277965174 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1277965182 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems good to me! < 1277965249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All fun and games until some punk decides to kill off everything to spare people pain. < 1277965297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I think you're confusing games < 1277965341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seymour? < 1277965350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ending the spiral of death? < 1277965385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sure. I thought you were talking about Yu Yevon < 1277965405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Yu Yevon's a different kind of crazy. < 1277965431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All fun and games until some punk decides to turn people in statues to run a massive summoning. < 1277965436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, happy no? < 1277965438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now? < 1277965466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kill off everything < 1277965469 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, now I'm happy < 1277965502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277967662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Canada Day! < 1277968469 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1277969269 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277969350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277969376 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277970316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277970919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth announced yet? < 1277970961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The twitterverse seems to say that it was a jokey thing "announcing" TeX's successor with XML syntax. < 1277970982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTeX < 1277971030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then something about ringing a bell when you say the name. < 1277971039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277971052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ended up in Wikipedia for ~2 hours, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Itex&oldid=371122107 < 1277971080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, everything does. < 1277971113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it features 3-d printing and VP8 < 1277971127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORING. < 1277971199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277971200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277971327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277971359 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277971378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, if I tell mutt to search for a string in message bodies on this 1776-email IMAP inbox, it will fetch all message bodies. Wasn't there some sort of search functionality in IMAP? (Come to think of it, it's probably just that it wouldn't support regexps that way.) < 1277971499 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971499 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I didn't even find what I was looking for.) < 1277971629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277971631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so Knuth's announcement was a joke? < 1277971646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277971652 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So it appears. < 1277971705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don Knuth" sounds strange. < 1277971731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ...? < 1277971734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1277971735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didnt actually make an announcement, did he < 1277971751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes. < 1277971757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes what < 1277971783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He made a joke at the end of a conference; it's not so uncommon, though usually the jokes don't come with this much pre-excitement. < 1277971795 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the joke? < 1277971824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That there'll be a TeX successor called iTeX with XML syntax. It's just a dozen comments backwards on this channel, you know. < 1277971835 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277971857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that knuth < 1277971872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes a bit weird tho < 1277971892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hes quite smart and knowledgable, but at the same time he seems to have a weird view of how numbers work mathematicall < 1277971893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1277971927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1277971932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1277971940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho he might be a strict formalist, in that regard < 1277972000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in one of his books, he made some comments regarding natural numbers and integers and so on and so forth and i wrote him saying that mathematically speaking, these two things were identical in some relevant fashion < 1277972018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, natural numbers/integers and reals < 1277972026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1277972026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically involving the naturals/integers being a subset of the reals < 1277972031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why one could possibly want an enum larger than an int < 1277972035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes they are < 1277972054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he replied that you'd have to define an equivalency between them in order to make such and such blah blah blah < 1277972070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With 16-bit ints, you might only have room for puny 65k named constants. < 1277972071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no binary dollar for you :P < 1277972081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was saddened < 1277972097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... There's Damn Vulernable Linux... Linux distro stuffed with outdated software, exploitable software and ill-configured software... The list of default services is probably impressive. < 1277972101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that it wasn't a simple enough error < 1277972130 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if it were an error that could be made by simply forgetting to copy some symbol or other, or whatever, ok sure fine whatever < 1277972140 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, typo, so to speak < 1277972152 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this was kind of crucial to the point he was making < 1277972152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this was from the x86-64 ABI spec; it uses 32-bit ints. < 1277972171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want 4 billion named constants? < 1277972192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you want to name each and every memory location with a descriptive name? < 1277972229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 64-bit ABI. < 1277972245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so you need more than 32 bits for it. < 1277972291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the compiler die of overwork trying to keep track of them? < 1277972343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you have a limited amount of cases but they're represented by bit-patterns wider than int, maybe? < 1277972376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 64-bit register with few flags up high, and you want the values in an enum so that you can say "blah | bleh" to get a proper value. < 1277972380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1277972399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: blah | bleh < 1277972400 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i guess i < 1277972420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's allowed for the values of enum constants to be non-arbitrary integers. < 1277972427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You guess you what? < 1277972428 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: something like that, change the environment properties/ colors/ positions once a while back he snagged a bit of plot creativity, they could be < 1277972435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aha." < 1277972568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1277972568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1277972607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you have wider-than-int enums, though? < 1277972686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it was in the x86-64 ABI spec. < 1277972687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and some implementations of C permit enums larger than an int. The underlying < 1277972687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type is bumped to an unsigned int, long int or unsigned long int, in that order. < 1277972758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: my first actions if I heard someone was running it: ssh root@box < 1277972852 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You mean 'telnet box'? :-> < 1277972876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work, I'd try mysql < 1277972902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, ssh might be better target, but there's no telling what they have used as in.telnetd (probably something really vulernable). < 1277973011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not only vulernable, but misconfigured to create additional vulernabilities. < 1277973023 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the SSH probably has SSH1 enabled... < 1277973067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but if root is passwordless or has a weak password, SSH wins (assuming it allows root logins at all, which is always a bad idea) < 1277973101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, guess twice if it allows direct root logins? :-) < 1277973141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1277973164 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, judging from goals, it very probably does. < 1277973247 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see an instructor running that and giving bonus marks for every different way someone students came up with to root it. < 1277973319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277974246 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277976394 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977118 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277977398 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977510 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-116.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277979278 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277980520 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277981189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277981596 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277982706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAGH the number 168 is stuck in my head and I don't know why. < 1277983435 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277984156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if linux is smart enough when dealing with reading from software RAID1 that it uses the disk that happens to have the read head closest to what it needs to read? < 1277984242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is software RAID1 handled? < 1277984280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1277984511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or did you mean which command line tool you use to set it up? < 1277984527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant kernel or userspace. < 1277984538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, kernel then < 1277985130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds somewhat tricky to arrange it completely optimally; preferrably you'd start reading with the drive that has the least seek time to the target region, and then read in parallel from all drives as soon as they have reached the proper place. < 1277985190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if you can get precise enough geometry information from disk controllers nowadays. And there's sector remapping and all that fluff. < 1277985359 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277985899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1277986265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the "this howto is deprecated" Linux Software-RAID HOWTO, on the topic of RAID-1: "Read performance is good, especially if you have multiple readers or seek-intensive workloads. The RAID code employs a rather good read-balancing algorithm, that will simply let the disk whose heads are closest to the wanted disk position perform the read operation. Since seek operations are relatively expensive on modern disks (a seek time of 6 ms equals a read of 123 kB at < 1277986265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 MB/sec), picking the disk that will have the shortest seek time does actually give a noticeable performance improvement." < 1277986282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at least at some point it has attempted to handle that cleverly. < 1277986297 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277986527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same phraseology (with updated numbers: 8 ms, 640 kB at 80 MB/sec) appears in raid.wiki.kernel.org, but on the other hand in the "Performance" page the benchmarks don't show very much read-speed differences between non-raid and RAID-1 access. (The benchmarks look somewhat haphazard, though.) < 1277987730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277988026 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1277988034 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988208 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1277988341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would appear < 1277988348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you _truly_ be sure? < 1277988386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but for all I know you could just be an emergent phenomenon of the intenet itself. < 1277988395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That there'll be a TeX successor called iTeX with XML syntax. It's just a dozen comments backwards on this channel, you know. < 1277988400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would explain why you are so elusive on Google. < 1277988455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very name of that + the preannouncements would seem to imply knuth was deliberately making a joke on apple hype < 1277988480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except apple doesn't make preannouncements, do they < 1277988524 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277988653 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just do strictly controlled leaks with both correct and incorrect information, to keep the hype going. < 1277988736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: guesswork and speculation.) < 1277988805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AAGH the number 168 is stuck in my head and I don't know why. <-- it's your serial number, duh < 1277988826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :168? Out of ~7 billion? < 1277988842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel honoured. < 1277988856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, out of 666 < 1277988862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect it's an SCP, but I really don't want to find out which. < 1277989002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few more bits of trivia that Knuth said about iTeX: no escape sequences, menu-driven, speech-recognition something. (From a random tweet.) < 1277989013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "knuth announcement: 27th most popular search in the past hour." < 1277989038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :168 is an SCP, but not one I'd previously read about. < 1277989044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiouser and curiouser. < 1277989054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?q=knuth+announcement < 1277990974 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992397 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about XML in TeX, sometime in the past year... I'm pretty certain it could work (use instead of \begin{document}, for example) < 1277992569 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992624 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277992692 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277992700 0 :cpressey!~sandbox@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992712 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992801 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want to spider a site, but I also want to spider a version of it from a few years ago from www.archive.org. < 1277992822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose a tool exists that does exactly that, so < 1277992843 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any suggestions for a spidering tool that is comfortably hackable? < 1277992934 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yourself? < 1277992993 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1277993146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget -r plus some perl goo, it is, then. < 1277993264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is already a XML syntax for TeX (TeXML). It's mostly intended for people who programmatically generate TeX code, though. < 1277993330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any clue how good/sensible it is. < 1277993409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to do instead of \begin{x} for example, so it's perhaps not that human-friendly to type directly. < 1277993763 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277994115 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277994153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277994167 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1277994499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277994550 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1277994779 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Knuth thing is an April Fool's joke, right? Just 3 months late? < 1277994789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We think so. < 1277994907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or nine months early, maybe. < 1277995047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's only one yearly tex conference... < 1277995073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-level one, that is < 1277995273 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277995692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523 < 1277995699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277995711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I proved both Reversible Brainfuck and DoFuck TC in my head last night < 1277995718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, as usual with proofs done mentally, there may be bugs < 1277995752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed -- from the sound of it, Reversible Brainfuck would not be too hard to prove? Or is it weirder than its name suggests? < 1277995764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what I'm saying < 1277995770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're both BF with different definitions of the [ command; DoFuck has it enter the loop unconditionally, Reversible Brainfuck has it enter the loop if the current cell /is/ 0, rather than if it /isn't/ 0) < 1277995773 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given how hard Burro was < 1277995797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking I might actually implement my idea for Goldbach... was making some notes last night < 1277995803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not trivial to prove; the issue is trying to make sure you can enter a loop the good-old-fashioned BF way < 1277995807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will turn out to be very un-exciting, though < 1277995810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires somehow ignoring the value when you enter it < 1277995822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1277995941 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Goldbach idea just degrades into "Loop over pairs of primes until you find two that sum to the next larger even number you need", and if you can't do that, you can't perform a top-level loop. So if the Goldbach conjecture is false, there is a limit to the number of useful iterations you can do. < 1277995965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1277995979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next larger even number -> first you have to goto -2, then -4, then -6 ... which all basicallly are gotos back to the first instruction of the program < 1277995987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember asking bits of the mathematical community about the goldbach conjecture, though; they all believe it's true, just have no proof < 1277995991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very contrived. :/ < 1277996006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time fantasizing about it *not* being true. < 1277996026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would there be just one "non-Goldbach" even number? < 1277996029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be < 1277996040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing would seem to imply there would be more than one, if there were one. < 1277996041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably 2, but that doesn't count < 1277996297 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I supposed to fall in love with Lua? < 1277996327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it's good for some things, not for others < 1277996335 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... catseye.tc's front page looks pretty spectacular in FF when the canvas is only 23-or-so pixels high < 1277996355 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking of rewriting some of the C# stuff in Lua so it can be easily unloaded, changed, and loaded without restarting the bot < 1277996382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Never a good idea to fall in love with a language. It can only lead to hurt when the summer's over. < 1277996425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, Lua's OK. In many respects, for me, it beats both Python and Ruby. < 1277996468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In others, well, nothing's perfect. < 1277996522 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what ways is Lua imperfect? < 1277996560 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well. There is no "standard" way to do object-orientation. So, if you mix and match two libraries which use different styles, it can be ugly. < 1277996585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also something think they went too far, when they merged dictionaries and arrays into one thing. < 1277996595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/something/sometimes/ < 1277996652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my other gripes are about the implementation and things like availability of libraries, which aren't really core language issues. < 1277996713 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277996742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277996753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277996781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it beats Python: Lua doesn't make a distinction between attributes and dictionary entries. a['foo'] is the same as a.foo. The division in Python is artificial at this point, and in the code base I work on at least, extremely annoying. < 1277996815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: JavaScript works like that too < 1277996827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, JS and Lua are surprisingly similar languages < 1277996846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, JS is actually a lot better than I usually give it credit for. And yes, similar to Lua in many ways. < 1277996873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS has mostly been held back by being mostly trapped inside a web browser < 1277996915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web browsers with generally lousy debugging/interaction capabilities, especially. < 1277996939 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not a coincidence that much of the JS I write has the same feel as much of the Assembly I write. < 1277996947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Firebug and the Epiphany/Safari/Chrome web inspector are pretty good for debugging < 1277996971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, I didn't mean to imply such tools weren't available. < 1277997019 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277998360 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999186 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277999261 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277999468 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277999567 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999729 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278000310 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1321E1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278000392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278000417 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001556 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278001595 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278001629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278001830 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278001875 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001879 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001882 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278002046 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278002289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278002527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New kernel; back in a bit. < 1278002564 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278002607 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-212.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278002702 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278003565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278003842 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278004306 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278004347 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278004417 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278004450 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278004978 0 :KINGZ!~STOP_POWE@78.101.184.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278005943 0 :KINGZ!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278006198 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278007298 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278007685 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278008620 0 :ipatrol!~ipatrol@wikimedia/Ipatrol JOIN :#esoteric < 1278008632 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278009024 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278009026 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278009647 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278010403 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011130 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011413 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278011438 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011854 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278012172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278012194 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278012382 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278012865 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278013546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting… < 1278013661 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278013869 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108489.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014049 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014241 0 :ghostwriter42!~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014296 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick i need a someone to pick a *even* number between 50 and 100 that has two different digits! < 1278014404 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68 < 1278014429 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1278014435 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1278014440 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1278014441 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278014447 0 :ghostwriter42!~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014459 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 68 a common response or something? < 1278014489 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mindcontrol101.blogspot.com/ read the paragraph that says "pick a number" < 1278014537 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278014547 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you win < 1278014584 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278014830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278014852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278015081 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015321 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278015383 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015482 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015485 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1278015613 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone think of a cool name for a website specialising in programming games? < 1278015673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I am interested < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015853 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame programming.com, programming.net and programming.co.uk are wasted :-( < 1278016063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggames? < 1278016135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: btw, there was a bit of movement on the BF Joust leaderboard recently < 1278016137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't /quite/ dead < 1278016153 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I'll take a look :-) < 1278016358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can has decent headphones! And stuff for curry, reubens, and such! < 1278016363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glee! < 1278016373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Glee < 1278016388 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278016534 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1278016552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278016714 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017540 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017803 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278017805 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1278017812 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017829 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1278017834 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1278018031 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278018291 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278019281 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278020194 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.10/20100504093643] < 1278022015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278023997 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278024000 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth? < 1278024015 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Announced what? < 1278024035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point, I haven't heard any followup on that < 1278024040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, is the answer < 1278024047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which surprises me, I thought it would have at least hit Slashdot < 1278024067 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T'was yesterday night, late. < 1278024073 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will know. < 1278024092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked a search: it seems he was joking < 1278024105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he announced an XML-based TeX, called iTex < 1278024107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: It was a joke. < 1278024113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guess (stolen from Hacker News): a typo was found in a comment in METAFONT < 1278024120 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bah! :P < 1278024149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTeX features Unicode, XML syntax, 3D printing, stereophonic sound, and a menu-driven interface. < 1278024156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only places the actual announcement seems to have hit are Twitter and ycombinator.com < 1278024174 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Unicode in TeX. Hahaha, what a silly idea. < 1278024220 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me to eat after leaving. I'm starving. < 1278024236 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to scavenge something from my room... < 1278024303 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are filesystem drivers servers in HURD? < 1278024341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes. < 1278024358 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what isn't? < 1278024385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Quite a few hardware drivers. < 1278024402 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse? Keyboard? Video card? < 1278024415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse, keyboard, text console. < 1278024424 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic USB? < 1278024437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think also the block devices. < 1278024446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't have USB. < 1278024453 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha! I am more modular than HURD. < 1278024459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Linux 2.2 didn't, and they use Linux 2.2 drivers. < 1278024469 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan n for some n is, rather. < 1278024491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would take approximately 0 work to make them be in userspace. < 1278024496 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps2/noises /dev/ps2/mouse < 1278024501 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re iTex: July Fools! < 1278024502 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moused < 1278024511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can make a server for literally ANY FILE. :) < 1278024517 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, it'd still be the HURD. < 1278024528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would. < 1278024538 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine wouldn't be. < 1278024553 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /dev handled in kernel at all? < 1278024557 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HURD. < 1278024595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the kernel does not even acknowledge the existence of a filesystem. < 1278024619 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has /, though, yes? Just abstract. < 1278024626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278024636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach provides message passing. < 1278024642 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a server handles that. < 1278024647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278024664 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Expand "kernel" a bit. < 1278024673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's unaware of the existence of filesystems, is it technically a kernel? < 1278024680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: The Mach microkernel that runs in kernelspace. < 1278024685 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not asking about just Mach :P < 1278024693 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1278024697 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant < 1278024701 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my questions < 1278024708 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpret it a bit looser < 1278024710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Then it's hard to define what the kernel is. Everything else is daemons. < 1278024717 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1278024786 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Plan X will have a concept of / in the kernel, but only because the *whole OS* will be based on per-process namespaces. < 1278024803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel's / is a different / from everyone else's? < 1278024826 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In plan 9, every process has a different / < 1278024833 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its local namespace < 1278024841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in HURD, a "file" is nothing more than a name provided for a port of a server. < 1278024847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a global / too, though < 1278024851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the things can actually communicate < 1278024864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of the actual POSIX abstractions are coming out of libhurd. < 1278024868 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: E.g. The rio wm works by rebinding the /dev/screen of its children, for instance. < 1278024874 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1278024896 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, process 1's namespace but thats irrelevant. < 1278024917 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They communicats by inheriting files served by other processes. < 1278024930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you reference, say, /home/alise, how does Plan 9 resolve that? < 1278024942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel's the part that, when it crashes, you're fucked. < 1278024954 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM /usr/alise < 1278024959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then that's Mach. < 1278024970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: right, I forgot how Plan 9 actively hates the FHS < 1278024973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just ignoring it < 1278024978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's a good definition < 1278024979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *maybe* the authentication daemon. < 1278024991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, only works if you have an MMU and such < 1278024997 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your shell's /usr/alise. The same as your login process's, prolly. < 1278025004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, that's only if you happen to not be running a subHurd. < 1278025009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, on classic MacOS, any program could result in that < 1278025010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plan 9 very predates the FHS. < 1278025026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one can run a virtual Hurd system by starting another instance of the daemons.) < 1278025080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plan 9 also has absolutely no reason to acknowledge the FHS. It is very much not Unix. < 1278025106 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well. It's the official successor to 10th Edition Unix. < 1278025121 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278025131 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apart from that, yeah. < 1278025150 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /usr for users dates back to PDP unix. < 1278025155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes, and Windows is the official successor to DOS, but that doesn't make it DOS. < 1278025158 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "bin" was a user. < 1278025160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278025160 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278025165 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1278025180 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should know; you tried them out. < 1278025190 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some 'reverse parsers' for generating random expressions that match specified syntax? < 1278025194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice < 1278025197 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1278025206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i wrote one and i don't know if it's worth releasing < 1278025215 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alisephone < 1278025221 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: release it < 1278025227 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds v. Interesting < 1278025233 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278025237 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you cool all of a sudden? < 1278025243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one person is enough :D < 1278025260 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1278025261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote one for ICA a whie back because I needed testcases < 1278025262 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know, maybe it's not me :D < 1278025263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't work very well < 1278025274 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278025298 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Read "...because I needed testicles." :| < 1278025316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I have those already < 1278025320 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICA? < 1278025351 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I plan to not have virtual consoles in kernel. < 1278025375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idealized concurrent algol, it's one of the languages I work with in my day job < 1278025383 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll be servers that hook into the video and keyboard daemons or something. < 1278025394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: HURD doesn't either. < 1278025398 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want your day job. < 1278025403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... basically, algol designed to work better for mathematicians < 1278025405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the *physical* console in kernel. < 1278025406 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You said it did. < 1278025416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not to be easier to use, but to be easier to analyze mathematically < 1278025416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you kinda need to be in kernel-space to write to the VGA buffer. < 1278025422 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nobody uses that < 1278025432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what computer scientists use if they want a vaguely imperative language to work with < 1278025434 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Expose as server~ < 1278025448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... How do you think a non-framebuffer text console works? < 1278025457 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MAGIC. < 1278025467 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I know. < 1278025480 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run all procs in ring 1 >_> < 1278025488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It writes ASCII and color info interspersed to the VGA buffer. Glee. < 1278025491 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protectedmemaccessd < 1278025547 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ooh, in true Plan tradition I get to improve C. < 1278025555 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuples! < 1278025577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: Glee. < 1278025582 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278025605 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: still hacking Plan9? < 1278025623 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A,B,C) = strict { A [0]; B [1]; C [2]; } < 1278025627 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*struct < 1278025637 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y,z) = tip < 1278025642 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := tup < 1278025654 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int x, double y) = foo(); < 1278025664 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hells yeah. < 1278025672 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Plan X. M < 1278025688 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine plan9 turned up to plan11. < 1278025697 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no " M." < 1278025719 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome < 1278025745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Even in the most recent version of Lotus Notes, you will get an error if you are typing in the subject line and click the add attachment button. IBM says this is a feature because you cannot add an attachment to a subject line, I think it is disgusting. < 1278025748 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my crappy gsoc proposal for P9 was not accepted so i left the topic for a while < 1278025758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the reasoning... < 1278025770 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm playing with rails 3 & heroku < 1278025773 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, let it deconstruct arbitrary structs < 1278025784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome things < 1278025788 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a,b) = calc()).result < 5 < 1278025798 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: What a fall, from grace. < 1278025813 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structs. < 1278025816 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1278025830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278025844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webdev is my current job < 1278025864 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do a lot of PHP which @#(&(&(@#**(#(*@#*#@*@# SUCKS < 1278025865 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and perhaps actual extensible types? < 1278025892 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Err no longer a no. < 1278025907 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't even find non-irritating MVC stack for PHP so i tried to write my own and failed :D < 1278025935 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does Hurd have a concept of users? < 1278025942 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what level, rather? < 1278025959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: That's done by the authentication daemon. < 1278025966 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Plan 9ish systems, users are... A login process. < 1278025983 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1278025995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, this is my first nday playing B Nomic < 1278026006 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ever? < 1278026014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teucer challenged my claim to be a newbie, and I was as shocked as he was < 1278026015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ever < 1278026021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange the way the rules work out, sometimes < 1278026029 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't seriously buy the Era 4-5 argument? < 1278026030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really can't take much about B's history for granted < 1278026040 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That they never existed.) < 1278026041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: eras 4 and 5 never happened, BGora didn't have ndays < 1278026052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, most of B buys that argument < 1278026056 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with the former. < 1278026078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :platonically, I mean; sure, people played through and enjoyed them, and we can still talk about events happening in them < 1278026082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were ignored by the rules < 1278026088 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278026093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, they happened but the Clock was off continuously < 1278026100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus no ndays elapsed < 1278026104 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly remember the argument sucking. < 1278026137 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my nomic school is "formalism". :) < 1278026196 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alma mater: RMSN (The Retarded Monkey School of Nomic). < 1278026206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: the rule allowing the clock to be switched back on was commented out < 1278026221 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph.D. in naĂŻvetĂ©. < 1278026225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if the original comment crisis argument sucked slightly, someone made a much better one later on that pointed out it was commented out with both definitions < 1278026235 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*naĂŻvety. < 1278026238 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhhhhhhh < 1278026243 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid American English. < 1278026252 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough. < 1278026294 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pretty sure B has never existed :P < 1278026297 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my flatmates are using too much bandwith < 1278026310 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: throttle~ < 1278026317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't < 1278026327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some idiot secured the router < 1278026335 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1278026338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: heh, I'm playing B under the name "703B E29B E9CC E4ED A7E2 7F62 1608 627B 1BA5 7726" because the requirement to be uniquely named is back, and I feared "ais523" might not be unique enough < 1278026339 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset it < 1278026373 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a SUSPICIOUSLY large number of 7s < 1278026389 0 :FireFly!~nds@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it's a GPG key fingerprint < 1278026430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's unique < 1278026456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a suspiciously large number of Es in the first half, too < 1278026497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B? < 1278026522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /b/? < 1278026557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1278026562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite a difference < 1278026578 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026580 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was PSOX? < 1278026624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: an API to allow esoprograms to use operating system services, by Sgeo < 1278026627 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX is a system interface utilizing only stdout and stdin, so that it can be used by very restricted (esoteric) programming languages without modification. < 1278026634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its design made it basically only usable with BF < 1278026636 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1278026643 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, why was that? < 1278026652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it relied on literal NUL characters a lot < 1278026659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I suppose Befunge can do those too < 1278026664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many esolangs can't < 1278026667 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1278026737 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it was a binding to the C standard library. < 1278026758 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026763 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1278026767 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarted the router < 1278026768 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. The only magic to it was that the interface between the language and it was very thin, just stdout/stderr. < 1278026782 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It itself was just linked however it works on the host. < 1278026819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, reddit are debating the "M-x google-maps" command < 1278026827 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278026952 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278027173 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurd looks cool < 1278027196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it exists in emacs? < 1278027211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not by default, someone implemented it < 1278027231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ it'll never get into the standard distribution < 1278027232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does it do? use picture-mode to display images? < 1278027243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more complex than that, I haven't looked into it < 1278027249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link? < 1278027272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://julien.danjou.info/blog/2010.html#M%2Dx%20google%2Dmaps < 1278027444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does it do it? < 1278027449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing the image I mean < 1278027458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, I don't know the emails < 1278027461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't know the details < 1278027468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Emacs is certainly capable of showing images < 1278028599 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ClIRC - IRC client for Nintendo DS < 1278028602 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: No. Sgeo invented his own APIs. < 1278028605 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were bad. < 1278028724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides the NUL thing, howso? < 1278028744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth "also stated that this successor of TeX will have features like 3-D printing, animation, stereographic sound." < 1278028750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has hit Slashdot, eventually < 1278028975 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wish you judged my CFJ UNDECIDABLE. :) < 1278029008 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone, besides the NUL thing, how were they bad? < 1278029021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: I don't see any evidence for that < 1278029036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, you're probably lucky, the alternative would have been that your message ironically made you /deregister/ and get locked out for 30 days < 1278029201 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should make a PSOX2 < 1278029210 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Knuth "also stated that this successor of TeX will have features like 3-D printing, animation, stereographic sound." ... huh? < 1278029223 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this time, keeping in mind the needs of a variety of languages < 1278029223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: he was trolling, quite successfully < 1278029231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, if you're Knuth, you can get away with it < 1278029537 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Weak evidence: rules say A becomes B strongly, but it < 1278029545 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's not A, it's B < 1278029568 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stays B - rules violated, change from A to B didn't happen < 1278029573 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278029584 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It becomes A - not stated anywhere in rules, illogical < 1278029597 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be one or the other but cannot be either < 1278029601 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradox < 1278029641 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ani < 1278029659 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mation of tex flowing text would be awesome < 1278029676 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start at ragged right, hyphenate, justify, etc. < 1278030034 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278030186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make skins for forum softwares, with these features: * The UNIX timestamp of the last new item in any file linked to, will be included in the query string of the hyperlink that points to that file. * All operation by keyboard. * Minimal (or none) CSS, and no icons (to use low bandwidth). < 1278030242 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: write a BBS so we can telnet the board < 1278030288 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can provide you with brand new, 8088 based, custom built machine with 300 baud modem < 1278030290 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also a idea. < 1278030296 0 :erin!~erin@pool-71-182-225-21.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278030299 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw www < 1278030304 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278030306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not need a computer with a 300 baud modem to do so, any computer will do. < 1278030322 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't be so cool < 1278030324 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278030329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is to provide all messages using 9P. < 1278030352 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: <3 you for liking 9P. < 1278030358 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point if you can't see when particular character appear on screen < 1278030361 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that, I'm off. Bye! < 1278030365 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1278030372 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278030376 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters* < 1278030381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278030500 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use multiple protocols in my own services and try to be minimal as much as reasonable possibly to make nearly anything work in many cases. Web browser software is very complicated. I do it make even a simple software can also connect. I have both HTTP and Gopher services, and some files are accessible by both, but some are useful only one way < 1278030544 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly < 1278030550 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who uses gopher these days? < 1278030562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very few people, but there are some < 1278030580 0 :erin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278030581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not the only one) < 1278030618 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, people use Gopher for the same reason that I have a VM that runs System V. < 1278030633 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're protocol archaeologists, I'm an OS archaeologist. < 1278030642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use gopher protocol because it is simpler, mostly. < 1278030659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often make files accessible both on gopher and on HTTP as well. < 1278030660 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that for a nanosecond. < 1278030680 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People useD the Gopher protocol because it WAS simpler. < 1278030718 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now, whether it's simpler or not, the effort involved in delving into the past just to serve a protocol no one can use is higher than any relief you may get from having a simple underlying protocol. < 1278030777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I serve multiple protocols on my computer < 1278030798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three protocols server by now < 1278030822 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the relevance of that statement to my previous statement. < 1278030825 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: where did you get System V? < 1278030900 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: See PM < 1278030908 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When serving stuff by HTTP I use as less kind of complex HTML as possible, make sure JavaScript is not required to use any software (if it is, all JavaScript is optional), and use plain text files often. < 1278030917 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are things that work well with HTTP/HTML/etc < 1278030984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like to design "command-web", meaning you can have a command-web inside of a HTML document or HTTP header, or by linked or by local aliases, and you can access it using the command-web client (even if you have no web-browser program), and make it workable like any other command-line program is, including parameters, redirect input/output, pipe, etc. < 1278031019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it can be done even if your server serves static pages only, and only over HTTP, it can still be supported by anyone < 1278031095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am also currently playing a pinball game, called Jiggle Box. I think it is a very good one. In addition, in the background audio someone says "Why do women always get a place to sleep? Because they are the weaker sex. No, I think women are stronger. Do you know why? Because they get enough sleep, that's why.") < 1278031434 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278031469 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly that quote just makes me wonder where these people live where the women sleep in lavish four-poster beds and the men sleep curled up in the fetal position in the corner of a concrete box. < 1278031558 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in soviet russia ... ? < 1278031559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also played D&D today, in case you were wondering < 1278031575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Soviet Russia, bed sleep on YOU!! < 1278031632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are shadow mastifs good to eat? < 1278031646 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Soviet Russia, object verb SUBJECT! < 1278031696 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mastifs is a good name for a new fs < 1278031716 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. I suppose it can be made so < 1278031722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If somewould is going to do it < 1278031829 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1278031840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, why did I write "somewould"? Is that a word? < 1278031890 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have so much work to do... i guess i will leave it and relax while implementing 9P in ruby or doing another useless thing < 1278031949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, are shadow mastifs good to eat? This is what happened in D&D game today < 1278032128 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: SUGGESTION FOR USELESS THING (depending on your C ability): Help extend Microcosm! < 1278032179 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is microcosm? < 1278032185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUGGESTION: Write a brainfuck interpreter in FurryScript. < 1278032195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE SUGGESTION: See how many books you need to reach the ceiling. < 1278032233 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: I'm so glad you asked! < 1278032237 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll direct you to http://codu.org/projects/microcosm/ to answer that < 1278032278 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're actually talking in #microcosm about what the best quick-summary for what Microcosm is :P ... it's a portable psuedo-OS allowing you to run Microcosm binaries (ELF files for a POSIX-like platform) on "any" OS (or will be, once it's further implemented) < 1278032300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN MORE SUGGESTION: Make a spell in D&D that is so complicated and obscure that nobody can figure out < 1278032322 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks awesome < 1278032348 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: Come in to the Microcosm fold! You know you want to! < 1278032353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jiggle Box is one of my favorite pinball games. There is one feature it lacks which most modern pinball games have. Do you know what it is?) < 1278032379 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: I think Microcosm might be good idea once it is written some more, possibly < 1278032392 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Everybody says that :P < 1278032408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: But can it run on different processors as well, or only x86? < 1278032451 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278032452 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278032487 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Microcosm is not an architecture simulator, so you can only run Microcosm binaries intended for one architecture on the same architecture. It's only been ported to x86 and x86_64, but there's nothing inherantly unportable about it. < 1278032562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: O, OK. < 1278032644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps also make up a new kind of virtual machine that can be compiled into native codes and have it that if the ELF binary uses that virtual machine, it will compile to a native code at first, but if it is already x86 it will just run it directly < 1278032670 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have discussed "restricted harvard architecture" before, as a way to ensure best optimization into native codes < 1278032696 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking earlier today about the feasibility of targeting LLVM as an "architecture" with ELF binaries. < 1278032719 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, alternatively, targeting something like MIPS and creating a new user-process emulation for Qemu. < 1278032792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know whether LLVM is restricted harvard? < 1278032833 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue. < 1278032836 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1278032838 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly LLVM still confuses me a lot :P < 1278032847 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only because I haven't looked in to it at all) < 1278032853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have looked at it a little bit < 1278032857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not a lot < 1278033001 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278033137 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278033800 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278034523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: LLVM is incredibly, incredibly simple. < 1278034541 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1278034548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you know if LLVM is restricted harvard or not? < 1278034554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a single-static assignment assembly language that's easy to compile to other assembly languages and easy to optimise. < 1278034557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not even vaguely. < 1278034566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK < 1278034605 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I only get confused with LLVM when it comes to LLVM being compiled to native code so easily. If LLVM is so low level, then I can barely imagine how or where all the stupid issues of how you pass variables, pack structs and other such lunacy disappear. < 1278034635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: You generate machine-specific LLVM if you care about the details of that. < 1278034654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, if you care about the struct packing for a 386 you pack it as though it were a 386. < 1278034671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It abstracts *just* the harder parts of compiling to native code, basically. < 1278034700 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1278034745 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not strictly an assembly language, right? That is, it has a one-to-one conversion to/from "machine code" for an imaginary LLVM machine? < 1278034758 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bytecode except not byte-code :P ) < 1278034760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an LLVM bytecode as well, yes. < 1278034782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the tools deal with LLVM bytecode, not LLVM assembly. < 1278034793 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. < 1278034811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since it *is* an assembly language, LLVM assembly is not *that* much more than an ASCII serialisation of LLVM bytecode. :P < 1278034842 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the only thing I was confused about is that I didn't realize that you couldn't take .C files, compile them to one canonical chunk of LLVM bytecode, then compile that to a binary on any architecture. < 1278034863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *can* do that just fine actually. < 1278034869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just end up breaking ABI. < 1278034874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278034879 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you would have to make the most pessimistic assumptions about alignment and packing. < 1278034886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And breaking it *hard*... < 1278034891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278034902 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are systems where you simply cannot load data from an unaligned space, so you'd have to align everything to 8-bytes. < 1278034930 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that matter, how does word size work in LLVM? < 1278034931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only really get system-arbitrary LLVM bytecodes for languages without a lot of low-level details already. < 1278034940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written program, such as CZZT the structures must all be packed otherwise it won't run. It also won't run on big-endian computers. < 1278034950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you can just say "Figure this shit out, LLVM." I *think*. < 1278034950 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I use SDL macros to test some things < 1278034966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter if the start of the structure is aligned or not, though. But the contents of the structure must be packed < 1278034970 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would say you've written a bad program then :P < 1278034989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they must remain in the order it is in, rather than changing the data around in the different order, it also won't work. < 1278035013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: You might say that. But it is done this way for compatiblity. < 1278035038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other things done too. It is designed to be compatible with a old DOS program written in Pascal, of which nobody has source-codes < 1278035047 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1278035082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the video memory structures are made to be same as the way that the IBM PC does in text mode < 1278035095 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeesh < 1278035102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this new program is written in SDL, so it should work on any small-endian computer < 1278035105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can use SDL < 1278035118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: One needs to be aware of system word size. < 1278035134 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yet another chink in LLVM's portability armor :P < 1278035146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, this program requires 32-bit pointer sizes < 1278035157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not designed to be heavily portable. It's designed to be a nice language runtime backend. < 1278035163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the target computer is big-endian or it has different pointer sizes, it won't compile. < 1278035168 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fair enough. < 1278035190 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So if I did make a Microcosm-LLVM virtual machine, I'd need to make a Microcosm-LLVM32 and/or a Microcosm-LLVM64 virtual machine. < 1278035205 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something which e.g. Java can circumvent simply because it doesn't have pointers :P < 1278035228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Actually, I think there's *ways* to make it run something kinda like C in that your program just accepts that different compilations will have different sizeof(void*)'s. < 1278035272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've not seen that in action, so I'm not sure. < 1278035284 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Compiling C to such a system would be lunacy, as sizeof(void*) wouldn't be a compiler-known constant, so even if it worked at the LLVM level it would break everything else. < 1278035285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't use LLVM if you could instead make up a virtual machine that has restricted harvard architecture, it can have a pointer size that can be optimized into the target native code, for RAM pointer, but for ROM pointer there is no relevant pointer size because pointer into ROM is impossible < 1278035300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: True. < 1278035324 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers. < 1278035345 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, so long as Microcosm is a C-based system, we're stuck with having single-word-size binaries. < 1278035355 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see why that should restrict us to single-architecture binaries. < 1278035371 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, long-term goals :P < 1278035390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, fun fact: the LLVM linker lets symbols be unresolved at link time. < 1278035401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so it can resolve at JIT time or native-code-generation time) < 1278035424 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does ld, if you ask it to. < 1278035441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1278035477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Glee. < 1278035481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM has a C backend. < 1278035657 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain just exploded. < 1278035670 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C->LLVM->C->LLVM->C->... let's measure the eigenratio. < 1278035777 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Drivingdrivingdriving < 1278036196 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278036207 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278036242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two characters in the D&D game eat shadow mastifs, my character and one non-player character < 1278036349 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278036354 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278036689 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278036695 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278036737 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278037036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zzo38__ < 1278037043 0 :zzo38__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zzo38___ < 1278037047 0 :zzo38___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zzo38 < 1278037393 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278037393 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278037451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest35035 < 1278037927 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278038119 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278038360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I find a list of what template files are needed in phpBB, and what the elements are that are used in each one? < 1278038650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278039260 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278041577 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1278041842 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278041926 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278042056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CRTC has some stupid rules for the radio. One is that you are not allowed to play only part of a Canadian song. In addition there are rules for censorship that no pornography or swearing on radio, etc. I know some people don't like it (that includes myself), but I also like freedom of speech. I can propose a compromise, that such censorship is regulated only on odd numbered radio stations and not on even radio stations? < 1278042627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278044433 0 :Guest35035!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1278044853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278044888 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278045519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278045600 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278045913 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278047277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278047334 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278047435 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278048893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278049452 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278049599 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278049668 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278052075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278052343 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278053009 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278053016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "Entropy" is interesting < 1278053040 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1278053055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When values are decay, does that include also the constant numbers in the program? It does include string literals, but does it include number < 1278053078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there is no list of commands and list of operators documented < 1278053098 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1278053103 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Entropy < 1278053454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should actually design/implement a language some day < 1278053520 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Maybe do so some day? < 1278053547 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that language is boring < 1278053569 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or design and implement crappy APIs! < 1278053574 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks selfward < 1278053579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entertaining but positively useless < 1278053596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes mostly that is it < 1278053615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is not enough information about Entropy language, is still true < 1278053622 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like useless, what are you doing here? < 1278053894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Japanese are freaking crazy. < 1278053898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Macrocheira_kaempferi.jpg The Japanese spider crab. < 1278053904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The leg span there is 12 feet. < 1278053910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They eat that. < 1278054016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I ask some people on the other IRC about if shadow mastifs are good to eat, some people answer in different ways, including some people said only fox good to eat in that fantasy world, or don't understand why, or various < 1278054028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sounds delicious < 1278054053 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278054066 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278054088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Y'know, actually. < 1278054101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick some butter on that and it probably *is* freaking delicious. < 1278054103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 pounds of it. < 1278054204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do you write "the"? < 1278054215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how often do you write "I" and "you"? < 1278054222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very commonly. < 1278054242 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only time I would write any of them to /you/ is in this sentence. < 1278054345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK that is a sentence < 1278054400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a sentence. < 1278054930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a Google-provided corpus of 1024908267229 words collected from the interwebs, the word "the" is the most popular word, appearing 19401194714 times (1.89 %). < 1278055000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I is on 15th place with 2744649681 occurrances, you is 18th with 2404223410. People on the internet care more about themselves than others, it seems.) < 1278055056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's second? a? < 1278055110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top ten in order is: the, of, and, to, a, in, for, is, The, on. This seems to be case-sensitive, so I should've added "You" and "you" together, sorry about that. < 1278055203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter if you care about yourself or others, the reason for writing "I" or "you" is different things. Because there is different reasons for doing so. In addition, "I" might be used simply as a letter rather than as a word in some contexts. < 1278055431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quasi-interestingly, if you take a selection of books from male and female authors, there is a noticeable difference in combined frequency counts of wordsets (she, her, hers, herself) and (he, him, his, himself) depending on the gender of the author. < 1278055614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278055750 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278055909 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278056107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSUMO!! < 1278056155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RON!! < 1278056220 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAN!! < 1278056300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278056979 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278057599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278057600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278060889 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278060918 0 :coolguy4!~alex@60-241-80-116.static.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1278061426 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278061629 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278061770 0 :coolguy4!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278063416 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got a new project - running windows 3.0 on this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19txZDTkbBw < 1278063426 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278063449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1278063551 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 12 feet? < 1278063690 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is reported to have a gentle disposition "in spite of its ferocious appearance". < 1278063694 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YUCK < 1278065817 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278066220 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278066295 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278066504 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278073235 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278073604 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Computer makes noise if I use floodping. And if IPSec is used, the noise sounds really awful. < 1278073642 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some computer-internal EMI? < 1278074255 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha... On blog post Comment #2: "Mmmmm.... braaaaaiiiinnnzzzz....". Comment #3: "Wow, 2 comments plus this one and no denialists yet. are the zombies sleeping?". < 1278075748 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278080685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278080953 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1278081597 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278083043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG. < 1278083056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pirate Party is now going to take over running the Pirate Bay. < 1278083065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Inside Swedish parliament*. < 1278083134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Swedish politicians are almost entirely immune to prosecution from things done as part of their political goals. < 1278083221 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278083288 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheee < 1278083469 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278084517 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278084579 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278084777 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278084777 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278084777 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278087120 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278087176 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278087840 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Huh? < 1278088193 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278089017 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278089085 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278089276 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278089478 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278090907 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278091087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278091614 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278092375 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278093559 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278093640 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278094254 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278094373 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278094970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278096027 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278096268 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278097261 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278097712 0 :Guest18987!~mike@41.186.1.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278097766 0 :Guest18987!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278098152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program for CYOA type games in TAVSYS < 1278098153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/tavsys/lib/cyoa.4th < 1278098163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add more features if you have idea to add more features < 1278098317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately there is not a lot of documentation, it only lists the error codes < 1278098899 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278098987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hello, and good day, is it good day for you today? < 1278098995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, boot < 1278098997 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bot < 1278099743 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278099744 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278099776 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278099942 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278100401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me, a question I did not get answer very satisfactory, is shadow mastifs good to eat? (in D&D) < 1278100418 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278100425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very filling though < 1278100455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think that is the case? < 1278100474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shadow < 1278100543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is actual shadow, I think it is proper physical object < 1278100567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they want you to think < 1278100782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not incorporeal. It is called "shadow" because they can hide in a shadow < 1278100900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good for ettercap and/or otyugh to eat? < 1278101701 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278101922 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278101946 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278103868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Is? < 1278103989 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278104494 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278106962 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278108233 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278109376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278109882 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-76-230-21-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278110702 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278110903 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278110990 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278112283 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278112620 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278112682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_11/mahjongflowchart.png < 1278112804 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that "fat player's mahjong" about? < 1278112820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I don't know. < 1278112844 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is from some manga I have not seen < 1278112937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how eating more can possibly give you a better chance for daisangen. < 1278113194 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is waiting activity (since metabolism control is busted and one is almost continuously hungry)? < 1278113268 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I am not sure < 1278113279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daisangen is just a certain combination of tiles that you can have < 1278113307 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means three or four of each sangenpai (often called "dragons" in English). < 1278113324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a yakuman hand, which means it scores the maximum if you are East. < 1278113328 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Essentially 'eat' there replacing 'wait'. < 1278113384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Ah, OK. You might have to play a lot before getting such tiles as that. < 1278113566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278113645 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its amazing how often people with damaged metabolism controls go hungry (and then eat, usually not-good-for-you stuff). < 1278113705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can explain most of the stuff in the mahjong flowchart, but I don't know what "squigglies" is < 1278113943 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278113943 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278113943 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278114025 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278114069 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278114112 0 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric < 1278114112 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-29-86-244.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278114112 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278114324 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-76-230-21-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278114350 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278114358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncertainty Principle's Office: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/FatherHeisenberg.PNG < 1278114502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did packaged the IRCd codes but it isn't very good packaged. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/ircd/ < 1278114740 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many people understand evolution properly, but how many people are *that* bad http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/evolution_should_not.jpg < 1278114842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the error message "rDrebTenrsr nc RRdnrTSb SncrrebdRRdncsretrepscdogtia inte F t" supposed to mean?? < 1278114962 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... No idea... What language it is supposed to be in anyway? < 1278115091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I got this error in QuickBasic once < 1278115167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar, in an unsubscribe form I have seen where it says "Please indicate why you are unsubscribing" but the only choices is "toto" and "titi" < 1278115436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1278115461 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278115932 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278115967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: FNM Time < 1278116161 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h234.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278116317 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278116488 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278116623 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278116652 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278116960 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278118784 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1278119036 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278120161 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278120167 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1278120189 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1278121057 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278121853 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278124319 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278124345 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.28.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278124501 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278126803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278131088 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278132420 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278132437 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278132470 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278132471 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278132496 0 :Behold!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278132496 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278132496 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278133211 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278133945 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278136457 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278138604 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278141569 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278142314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278142897 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278143747 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h80.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278143844 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-75.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278143999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278144000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278144135 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278144139 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278145924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278147292 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14C484.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278147714 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278148214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one here who finds it weird that ":vim" in vim is the command to grep? < 1278148892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's just an unambiguous abbreviation of "vimgrep", the full command name. < 1278148892 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278148927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is also :grep, which uses an external grep utility.) < 1278148943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know what it is < 1278148945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still weird < 1278148960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not as weird as calling the command just "vim". < 1278149046 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278149314 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278149314 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278149314 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278149314 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278149314 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278149317 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278149318 0 :Adrian^L!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1278149319 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278149319 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278149332 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278150297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278150352 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278150361 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278150542 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278151025 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278151206 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-137.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278153275 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278153919 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278155109 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278155649 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278157851 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278157879 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278158609 0 :Notice!~f00661440@188.91.212.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278159228 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278159370 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278159465 0 :Notice!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bye < 1278162615 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-233-185.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278162695 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi2u < 1278164725 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278165307 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278166217 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278166311 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278175008 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278175039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC without shared libraries produces some quite amazing binary sizes. < 1278175285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s typically halves them < 1278175481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still gigantic. < 1278175716 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1278176062 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278176479 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278176512 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278177444 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278177937 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's the largest you got? < 1278178011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: MEGS < 1278178091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHC without shared libraries produces some quite amazing binary sizes. <-- worse than GCC? < 1278178100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i expected 100s of megs < 1278178103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278178105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G++ < 1278178108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not GCC < 1278178111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1278178135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, the thing is, static linking is the default in GHC. < 1278178155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the size of "main = return ()" ? :D < 1278178216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch < 1278178226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 468K. < 1278178233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1278178238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, before strip or after? < 1278178241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only recently got dynamic linking working in any implementations at all, iirc < 1278178245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: After. < 1278178250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 12K with dynamic linking. < 1278178255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, _ouch_ < 1278178258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which appears to be the minimum GHC binary size. < 1278178261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what was size before strip? < 1278178275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 676K. < 1278178280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278178292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, there's a massive chunk of stuff in there. < 1278178303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is all that really needed? < 1278178305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it's statically linking the entire runtime in there. < 1278178318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The garbage collector probably is. < 1278178341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thread implementation is probably not. < 1278178344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As it's statically linking the entire runtime in there. <-- doesn't linking against *.a just pull the files you actually need? < 1278178365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it pulls in the entire contents of those files. < 1278178370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run your ./donothing +RTS --help and see what you've got < 1278178388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massive chunk of stuff. < 1278178389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278178390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, split it in more files then < 1278178419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GHC isn't a magic-worker. < 1278178433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, most of it's going to be pulled in anyways. < 1278178435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could, in theory, notice that your program doesn't use the GC at all < 1278178447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can pass arguments to the RTS... < 1278178454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since only trivial hello-world or do-nothing level programs do that, there's no point < 1278178479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Letting you configure a lot of stuff with the GC, the threading library, etc. < 1278178510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're apparently going to turn off +RTS handling by default iirc, it's a security hole < 1278178517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1278178539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows specifying some output files iirc < 1278178573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For GC stat logging. < 1278178606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::cout << "Hi\n"; is 496K with g++ and a statically linked libstdc++ < 1278178620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC isn't that amazing IMO :-P < 1278178686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, int main(){} statically linked is 580K. < 1278178698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glibc is designed by retards apparently. < 1278178739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed by a guy who violently spits on anyone suggesting they should try to save memory, iirc < 1278178759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaking Ulrich Drepper. < 1278178777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka being useful for embedded devices) < 1278178940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, glibc is pretty feature-complete, but it comes at the expense of being usable on anything with less than, oh, 64M of RAM. < 1278179707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How'd you manage that? My int main(){} was 6.3K (smaller than the dynamically linked one) < 1278179720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ... Glibc? < 1278179736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with uclibc it was smaller for me, with glibc it was larger < 1278179774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.5.0/../../../../lib/libstdc++.a < 1278179792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any other libc's here AFAIK :-P < 1278179800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not even libc. < 1278179813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){}, build with gcc -static. < 1278179814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go. < 1278179836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a -static < 1278179863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled it and found a reference to a non-working -static-libgcc and a recommendation to hide libstdc++.so < 1278179877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, C++ != C < 1278179877 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "it" is static linking with g++ < 1278179881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1278179888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about C++ from the start :-P < 1278179986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt the comparison was more meaningful that way since GHC also dynamically links libc < 1278180008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1278180686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../gcc-4.5.0/libgcc/config/libbid/bid_decimal_globals.c:47:18: fatal error: fenv.h: No such file or directory < 1278180693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you so much GCC. < 1278180978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey we're (the wiki) on the reddit front page < 1278181019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irp again < 1278181034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP. < 1278181135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/clhyt/internet_relay_programming/c0tff21 < 1278181590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Tweeted: About NetHack: perceptive of you to the ground, with a single strong, yet impervious to gravity? he invites the very devil, an off-shoot..." < 1278182584 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278182713 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.75.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278182753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enter too late! < 1278182958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04:03 OMFG. < 1278182958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04:16 The Pirate Party is now going to take over running the Pirate Bay. < 1278182958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04:25 ... *Inside Swedish parliament*. < 1278182958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:05:34 Because Swedish politicians are almost entirely immune to prosecution from things done as part of their political goals. < 1278182959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1278183153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yo. < 1278183163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo. < 1278183553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mlterm is an amazing terminal. < 1278183632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT REALLY THOUGH < 1278183682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles languages correctly. < 1278183748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo < 1278183751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo < 1278183953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/2010/07/a-holiday-reminder/ < 1278184001 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278184089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never swallow rockets, especially when lighted < 1278184158 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278184250 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278184333 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278184361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: <3 nedroid < 1278184379 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AGREE EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE NOT TALKING TO ME ;_; < 1278184605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN TYPE PAUL ERDĹS AGAIN! < 1278184606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know < 1278184607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOT < 1278184728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What changed? < 1278184746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:29 http://mindcontrol101.blogspot.com/ read the paragraph that says "pick a number" < 1278184747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1278184757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ that blog < 1278184849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:32:53 <3 Glee < 1278184856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not the awful TV show. < 1278184873 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it is not awful. It has music. < 1278184881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278184889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope you're joking. < 1278184905 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1278184906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: I've got a terminal that handles Unicode actually correctly. < 1278184912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike urxvt, which claims to and fails. < 1278184915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOORAY < 1278184916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual terminal? < 1278184918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :âş < 1278184923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Terminal emulator < 1278184930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole works for me < 1278184936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka terminator. wait... < 1278184954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it handle bidirectional text? < 1278184956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:44:29 Honestly that quote just makes me wonder where these people live where the women sleep in lavish four-poster beds and the men sleep curled up in the fetal position in the corner of a concrete box. < 1278184960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278184964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(terminal_emulator) < 1278184981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh... that I have no clue of < 1278184984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used terminator for a while < 1278184989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give me a sample so that I can test it? < 1278185018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1278185041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :العربية < 1278185170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should render as the same glyphs as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arabic_albayancalligraphy.svg < 1278185240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278185330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ا Ů„ Řą ر ب ŮŠ Ř© < 1278185346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the glyphs by themselves, so you can see if it's doing the complex layout correctly, as well. < 1278185778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Terminator also does Unicode spectacularly, BTW. < 1278185802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ... As does rio... < 1278185826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm. < 1278185839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough things do. < 1278185961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall check out terminator < 1278186011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: was it you who was obsessed with lucid dreaming at some point, or was it pikhq < 1278186016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or perhaps no one?) < 1278186072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night i had one where i created a few people and asked them to play me a song, to see how good a song my brain could come up with on the fly < 1278186116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So far I see two major failings in Terminator. < 1278186117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember it was awesome, but the actual details i remember are really weird and stupid :P < 1278186120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, it doesn't handle IMEs. < 1278186129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, it doesn't handle bidirectional text. < 1278186161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, screw that. < 1278186171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mlterm seems to be rendering underscores oddly. < 1278186194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it isn't aware of where they get rendered, so it ends up not actually clearing them from the screen. < 1278186260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it too much to ask for a terminal without bugs? < 1278186353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay. < 1278186362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set the line spacing to 1 and it magically works. < 1278186762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Third, Terminator is Java. < 1278186774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Set the line spacing to 1 and it magically works. <-- OTOH, you have to deal with line spacing 1. < 1278186788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 pixel. < 1278186806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said pixel being where the underscore goes. < 1278186935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, am I right in thinking that I could get out of an EU country's mandatory military service by not being a proper resident but only a European Citizen? < 1278186977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278186992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, by not being a *citizen of the EU country in question*. < 1278186993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't all military services require citizenship of the country anyway < 1278186999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No. < 1278187015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the French have some foreign legion or such iirc? < 1278187017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name for it < 1278187019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US and French militaries, for instance, quite approve of foreign volunteers. < 1278187033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The French Foreign Legion comes with automatic French citizenship. < 1278187041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh < 1278187047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I thought the US required it < 1278187052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so you drop your old citizenship? < 1278187055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've remembered the French though < 1278187058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fast track to citizenship. < 1278187065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah < 1278187066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they allow dual citizenship. < 1278187070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that still counts as requiring it :-P < 1278187070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1278187070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually, by not being a *citizen of the EU country in question*. < 1278187071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riht. < 1278187073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Right. < 1278187076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Finland is on the cards again. < 1278187078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, they don't require it. < 1278187084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I refuse to be drafted.) < 1278187087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does your host country do that though= < 1278187087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, by being in the military, citizenship is very easy. < 1278187090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1278187096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You could've just said Finland instead of "an EU country" although I guessed that one anyway ;-P < 1278187098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Most nations allow it. < 1278187104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did I need to say Finland? :) < 1278187115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1278187135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In Finland, you can also do the civil service even if you do get drafted, if you just don't want to do military stuff < 1278187141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, so that's why you're a hideously intelligent sociopath: they teach you their secrets in the military, then make you blow people up with them. Well, okay, so I invented the sociopath thing myself. < 1278187148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, but I also don't want to do the civil service :P < 1278187152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also, fun fact: all nations with mandatory military service in Europe do not have those forced ever be deployed. < 1278187165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be political suicide, obviously. < 1278187178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can also go to jail to spend the minimum amount of time ;-P < 1278187181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have, in effect, volunteer armies, yet force people to do random training for a year or two. < 1278187183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In Finland you can serve a jail sentence instead. < 1278187185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda retarded. < 1278187195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just totally awesome! < 1278187201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I'll just live with being a second-class citizen. < 1278187210 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278187211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, can't European citizens of age even vote in their resident country? < 1278187214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1278187216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hardly even "second-class". < 1278187219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can vote. < 1278187239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1278187247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only thing that makes you second-class is a need to carry around your passport. < 1278187255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so if I moved to Denmark I could vote in both Denmark and in Sweden? < 1278187266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1278187269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1278187283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do I get two votes to the EU parliament? ;) < 1278187287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278187308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, Mr. Immigration Expert, how do I renounce my British citizenship? And can I still be a European citizen? < 1278187320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what if I moved into a house placed right on top of the German/Danish border? Could I vote in 3 countries then? < 1278187345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That house would be disambiguated :-P < 1278187352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, argh < 1278187360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Varies from nation to nation. < 1278187385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What if the two countries had varying age of consent laws, and you fucked someone in the middle of the age bracket half on the border and half not?! < 1278187398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The typical process, though, involves going to the nearest embassy, declaring intent to renounce citizenship, and then relinquishing your passport. < 1278187399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the half the vagina is on might matter. < 1278187409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They will probably also require proof that you have other citizenship. < 1278187412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The passport thing might be an issue. < 1278187417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So I can't just be an EU citizen? < 1278187428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, awesome idea with that "right in the middle" < 1278187429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, as the EU is not a sovereign nation. < 1278187443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dammit, why not?! < 1278187451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, alas I don't know the answer < 1278187454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want to be British but I don't want to be Finnish either :P < 1278187459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Europeans go "ZOMG NEED NATIONS" < 1278187472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The answer is that the nations would decide who has sovereignity over the house, probably, and the borders would change accordingly. < 1278187482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alternatively, you wouldn't be granted permission to build the house. This is the most likely scenario. < 1278187485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you got employed at Vatican City you could become Vatican. < 1278187485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278187492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1278187498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't need physical molestation to go with the emotional! < 1278187546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If they grant permission to build the house, they will sign a treaty to note who has jurisdiction over the building. < 1278187567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how it works with things like CERN, which are on national borders. < 1278187575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they'll sign a treaty for a *house*, so. < 1278187576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh, aren't there any existing buildings that crosses any borders? < 1278187582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several. < 1278187589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Governed by treaties. < 1278187591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278187606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even for small cottages on borders or such? < 1278187617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They draw borders around them. < 1278187624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1278187636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a few border disputes because of things like that. < 1278187642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1278187647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw a big trans-border house shaped like a penis < 1278187650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get borders changed < 1278187651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit < 1278187662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278187672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :National borders are *such* a bizarre thing. < 1278187697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1278187727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably the border will end up with a rectangular hole for it < 1278187757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, nobody would give up more than is strictly necessary! < 1278187765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, geometric borders would be weird. < 1278187775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "All categories of British nationality can be renounced by a declaration made to the Home Secretary. A person ceases to be a British national on the date that the declaration of renunciation is registered by the Home Secretary. If a declaration is registered in the expectation of acquiring another citizenship, but one is not acquired within six months of the registration, it does not take effect and the person is considered to have r < 1278187778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like in Africa? < 1278187781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1278187787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: to have r... < 1278187788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: to have r" < 1278187796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AFRICA IS WEIRD MAN. < 1278187797 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278187806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have remained a British national." < 1278187810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Africa_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg Not all /that/ geometric. < 1278187831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So I could only renounce my British citizenship by becoming a Finnish citizen, then, and thus suffering the draft. < 1278187832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you need to gain other citizenship to lose British citizenship, full-stop. < 1278187836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are several straight lines though < 1278187841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just paranoia tells me to get the fuck away from the British government in any way possible. < 1278187848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CERN has a border going right through their campus; I think the border still goes right through, but they also don't care about it much. Of course they have quite a lot of identity-checking on the campus gates, so... < 1278187865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278187873 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's also a Schengen border < 1278187898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's a Schengen border, *and* sovereignity is defined. < 1278187910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, all but one of the buildings is under French jurisdiction. < 1278187933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, you could also become a stateless person (not recommended) < 1278187945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what does that mean? < 1278187950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also an airport on the US/Canada border... < 1278187951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Just curious, why would that be unrecommended? :P < 1278187955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of any rights? < 1278187955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This works very oddly. < 1278187959 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mostly < 1278187963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ? < 1278187964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no nationality < 1278187968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I be an EU citizen? I suppose not :-P < 1278187981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try Swedish citizen? < 1278187992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past the security gates in an international airport is considered to be only under international law. < 1278187993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and this means you are moving abroad? < 1278187995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I'd rather live in Finland. :P < 1278188005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's interesting people in Finland. Sweden... < 1278188006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh < 1278188014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such: one side of the building is under US jusrisdiction, one is under Canada, and the middle is under NONE AT ALL. < 1278188017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there an international age of consent? < 1278188032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not: Pedobear tiem < 1278188036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No. < 1278188041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You wanna go on a plane, little girl?" < 1278188047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I got a biiiig loooong aeroplane..." < 1278188057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The *plane* is under the jurisdiction of the country it's over. < 1278188071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "You know what, little girl? Let's just stay here." < 1278188075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jurisdiction" is really not set up for modern transit. < 1278188078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[evil cackle]" < 1278188084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whoa. < 1278188093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am founding the United State of No Planes Allowed. < 1278188099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The way customs zones are handled in Canadian airports is fun < 1278188102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all just claim tiny little islands and make flight patterns a hell of a lot more complicated. < 1278188104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[While stateless persons were more common before the 20th century, when many states were somewhat fragile entities, on September 20, 1954 the United Nations adopted the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons: an active policy to prevent people becoming or remaining stateless.]] < 1278188108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: HOW AM BECOME STATELESS < 1278188111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perfectly possible. < 1278188120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Principle 3 of the 1959 Declaration of the Rights of the Child asserts that: < 1278188121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The child shall be entitled from his birth to a name and a nationality."]] < 1278188132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The UK makes a point of not allowing anyone to become stateless. < 1278188140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how am become stateless! < 1278188145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: The way customs zones are handled in Canadian airports is fun <-- oh? < 1278188151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally impossible to lose UK citizenship without having another citizenship. < 1278188164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mind, I don't actually want to. Having UK citizenship is completely harmless, right? < 1278188174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278188187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Hmm. Is the NHS UK or British? < 1278188193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1278188195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English. < 1278188207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We have US preclearance, so in some parts of the airport, you're legally in Canada; other parts you're waiting to immigrate, and other parts you're waiting to emigrate. Because of the changing volumes of traffic, these zones change throughout the day. < 1278188207 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278188207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NHS? < 1278188217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: English, but I'm sure the other analogues would cooperate. < 1278188218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :National Health Service. < 1278188221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: National "Health" Service. < 1278188230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what... that made no sense < 1278188240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The unit happens to be under its jurisdiction; so I would prefer you used the proper name, "National Hell Service". < 1278188250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In most major Canadian airports, you clear US customs before leaving (if you're going to the USA) < 1278188272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh. How strange < 1278188290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you ever been through customs in a busy US airport? If so, you'd understand why. < 1278188295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so how do those zones change in size? some marker being moved? < 1278188301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: security doors and such < 1278188308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I have never been outside Europe < 1278188313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Dude, you could escape to a different constituent country of the UK if you felt that they wouldn't cooperate. < 1278188320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, in fact, I been to Sweden, Norway and Denmark < 1278188321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1278188324 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278188325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: US customs is a pain even if you're a US citizen. < 1278188332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I disagree. < 1278188333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1278188339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is generally[2] no discrimination when a patient resident in one country of the United Kingdom requires treatment in another. The consequent financial matters and paperwork of such inter-working are dealt with between the organisations involved and there is generally no personal involvement by the patient comparable to that which might occur when a resident of one European Union member country receives treatment in another. < 1278188344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I've actually seen that, I've been in a Canadian airport < 1278188350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i.e., they have an intense relationship with each other and are completely transparent for the patient. < 1278188358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, so. < 1278188358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278188364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "We have a wonderful Scottish unit for you..." < 1278188365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other nation then. < 1278188369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of security difference between the US and non-US side was staggering < 1278188369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That is the plan. < 1278188378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah < 1278188381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it's actual hell if you aren't a US citizen... < 1278188386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty silly actually < 1278188395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We love our security theater. < 1278188408 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're going to the US? We must do what the USA overlords say! Everyone strip!" "You're going somewhere else? Oh, carry on then." < 1278188434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "theater" because if I wanted to cause major havoc, I'd set off a bomb at the security station... < 1278188439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strips < 1278188448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in the UK, they even check for that < 1278188452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or build one out of 1 oz liquid bottles after security. < 1278188453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are now being monitored by ECHELON. Congratulations! < 1278188461 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278188467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hooray. < 1278188515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there was someone who cooked a three-course meal on a plane < 1278188521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll need to shave off all my hair, go to Japan, and call myself 榛林ă»çĄžć”Ż. < 1278188557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why aren't you using ssl for freenode? < 1278188564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for alise < 1278188568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Cause. < 1278188572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [AnMaster] is using a secure connection < 1278188574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because #esoteric is publicly logged. < 1278188585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't talk about my rape-murders here. < 1278188588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes true, but what about all other channels < 1278188597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not on a secure connection because I could care less about whether any of my conversation here is public < 1278188608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of which I am present in none, and I would probably never say anything particularly worth monitoring in a technology-related channel, as the channels on this network are suppsoed to be. < 1278188610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my channels aren't even +s < 1278188615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, actually I'm on it for nickserv password not to be stolen < 1278188625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the channels I'm on are either logged, or populated enough that it would be trivial to log them secretly without people noticing < 1278188629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECHELON only looks for terrorism-related keywords, apparently. Admittedly, not the most trustable source -- them -- but still. < 1278188633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They couldn't possibly monitor /everything/. < 1278188639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a throwaway password for NickServ < 1278188649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1278188658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trivial to monitor even on small channels if you use e.g. Tor to serve the logs and keep your computer on 24/7 :P < 1278188668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among other things, it's too easy to type the password in-channel by mistake < 1278188674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use my one and only password for NickServ but that's a mistake of years ago and fixing it is something for another day. < 1278188676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: on very small channels, you know everyone there < 1278188682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And? < 1278188692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if someone's logging secretly, you have quite an idea of who it is < 1278188695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1278188715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I use a throwaway password for NickServ < 1278188716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1278188718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1278188723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still nothing. < 1278188725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION use random generated strings for everything < 1278188734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with a throwaway password, someone might identify as you and then do IRREPARABLE HARM to your Freenode reputation! < 1278188742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think anyone in here could have guessed anything less. < 1278188743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm paranoid < 1278188746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not exactly unpredictable. < 1278188747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Really now? < 1278188757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are though, on the level of the disorder. :) < 1278188773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why should I trust you on that ;) < 1278188843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I'm logging. To an encrypted volume. Private logs. When rotated to cd after 2 years or so: encrypted as well < 1278188858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1278188868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should institutionalise AnMaster. < 1278188868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, I have privlogs somewhere too, although I don't post them without permission of everyone involved < 1278188957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth does one start work on such a project as this... < 1278188957 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278188984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: step 1: surreptitiously exchange your passports < 1278189032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: With ... what? < 1278189032 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://notalwaysright.com/till-password-reset-do-us-part/6004 < 1278189041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: each other's < 1278189046 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who finds the fact that the password is stored more painful than the customer? < 1278189052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then AnMaster gets institutionalised and you're free < 1278189067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ooh, nice idea. Actually, scratch that: crap idea. < 1278189074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278189097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Who said it was stored? < 1278189116 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the password is visible to the worker in the call center? < 1278189122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1278189124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah. < 1278189130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: It's not a password, it's a security "password". < 1278189134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being visible is to be expected. < 1278189146 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh >.> < 1278189197 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those sorts of passwords are lame and shouldn't exist. < 1278189203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a computer password, it's the sort of password you say to a human < 1278189207 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALthough I don't know what the alternative is < 1278189219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and humans are generally incapable of doing secure hashes in their head, so they generally know the plaintext version < 1278189238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My secret answers are always woiyaq984U095VWOR'V#[;A@waie()!&"(*¬. < 1278189244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mother had a really strange maiden name. < 1278189248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly that? < 1278189256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278189276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The call center person could still have some sort of an app where it types in what the customer said and gets a yes/no indication back. < 1278189284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course spelling issues and so on.) < 1278189285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what about servers that think that ¬ is some sort of SQL injection attack? < 1278189297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we need fuzzy hashes for passwords < 1278189298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not " or *? < 1278189300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are yet somehow still secure < 1278189302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're evil people who disrespect my mother. < 1278189307 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pet peeve: people who say EST when they mean EDT < 1278189318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think ' is more common "ooh, a scary character" in SQL than ". < 1278189319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: Pet peeves. < 1278189323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: people who use anything but UTC±n < 1278189335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: generally speaking, people who disallow things in passwords because they're scared of injection attacks don't do so in any particularly logical way < 1278189353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: the last word in the pet business; forget cats and dogs, those are so last-millennium. < 1278189357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: People who use anything but UTC :P < 1278189358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who know what they're doing just use parameterized queries (or stored procedures, which implies parameterized) < 1278189366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: pet rocks. < 1278189375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: peeved pets < 1278189396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: Pet peeves of "peeved pets"; peeved pets with pet peeves. < 1278189402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pet peeve: people who don't actually sync their clocks. < 1278189403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or ¬SQL :P < 1278189409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*¬SQL. < 1278189421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't know if I sync mine. < 1278189423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I'm so naughty. < 1278189561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sync mine < 1278189569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it's easier than remembering when DST starts and ends < 1278189587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows always used to ask for confirmation when DST started and ended < 1278189588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computer can do that automatically regardless. :P < 1278189593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yeah i remember that < 1278189598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are non-computer clocks < 1278189598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I changed the clock. Did... did I do well?" < 1278189605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nonsense. < 1278189616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks regardless < 1278189626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was especially annoying because I had a computer with a broken RTC (it didn't work while power was off), so you had to set it during boot, and Windows always corrected the correct time to a wrong one after a DST change < 1278189629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had to change it back < 1278189647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, and there's a handy-dandy UTC time source for them. < 1278189650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, NIST! < 1278189668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think my physical clocks are expensive enough to synchronise. < 1278189728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with a few minutes' inaccuracy < 1278189767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I need the precisely correct time for anything < 1278189784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: clocks in computers are physical too < 1278189790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a virtual clock wouldn't work if you turned the computer off < 1278189794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers are physical < 1278189809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wristwatch is currently 35.5 seconds behind MDT < 1278189811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes < 1278189811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, shut up. < 1278189827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wristwatch is currently nonexistent. < 1278189829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDT? < 1278189839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm, like, an anarchist, going around without all these possessions and reminders of the constant passage of time to weigh me down. < 1278189852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mountie Djawesome Time. < 1278189861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful < 1278189862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the official timezone of the Federated States of Canadia. < 1278189871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it might just be Calgary's time zone. < 1278189877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain Time Zone, apparently. < 1278189881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough. < 1278189894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDT = Mountain Time Zone. Hmm. < 1278189895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain Daylight Time < 1278189898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My pocketwatch is broken. < 1278189904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mountain Daylight Time < 1278189913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I have a constant reminder of the constant non-passage of time. < 1278189925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Technically I'm lying as if I was going anywhere as an actual thing I'd take my phone. < 1278189933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's *still* 11:11! Awesome!" < 1278189941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That iPhone sure has been good to me. < 1278189983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pet peeve: people who don't actually sync their clocks. <-- agreed < 1278190030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have replaced AnMaster with a very small program. Have any of you noticed? < 1278190067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, NIST! <-- NIST? < 1278190087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :National Instute of Standards and Technology. < 1278190104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, they've got an atomic clock hooked to a radio broadcast. < 1278190126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, very funny :P < 1278190140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh that is US only < 1278190141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, don't talk back at your creator. < 1278190144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or NA at least < 1278190157 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278190160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you wrote an AI... *kills alise* < 1278190175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wow, I didn't code in a strong lampshading of North American...ism. Emergent behaviour. < 1278190185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Now, I /did/ code in shitty jokes, so you're not surprising me. < 1278190210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, a few other countries do something similar. < 1278190226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is one in Germany that is usable here in Sweden < 1278190228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's all on longwave, so it's kinda hard to not be able to pick up. < 1278190236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my alarm clock sets from it < 1278190280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-syncing clocks are too hi-fi for me < 1278190287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you ever just walk into Russia and go "HAHAHAHA RUSSIA"? < 1278190294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, why not? Your country borders Russia, you know. < 1278190296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long walk < 1278190297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do that. < 1278190300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should go do that right now. < 1278190303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use a car. < 1278190311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I wouldn't've walked < 1278190319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can drive to the border and then walk into Russia. < 1278190324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a great idea and you should do it immediately. < 1278190327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long drive, too < 1278190332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also completely pointless < 1278190334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could take a train. < 1278190336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. < 1278190344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be in Russia, going "HAHAHAHA RUSSIA". < 1278190347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore you should do it. < 1278190350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that good? < 1278190361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is goodness good? How can I answer such a tautological question? < 1278190381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl going to play game < 1278190421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly. < 1278190507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency this morning. < 1278190528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're wondering whether it is good, why? Douglas Adams wrote it; of course it's good, you moron. < 1278190618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it again < 1278190625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why? < 1278190637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be read twice to be fullly appreciated < 1278190658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will; maybe I won't. I have a feeling Dirk would be a whole lot less amusing now that I know exactly how it all happened. < 1278190665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be wrong < 1278190666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you have an extra "l" there. < 1278190667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I steal it? < 1278190670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fully. Thanks. < 1278190674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will put it in a museum: "l" < 1278190692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reg, while possessed, unwittingly uses his time machine to amuse a young girl at a college dinner with a magic trick- removing a simple salt cellar and apparently concealing it in an old pot the girl had discovered-, inadvertently bringing back a faulty Electric Monk which the ghost had hoped to use itself- Electric Monks are designed to believe things for you so that the owner does not have to believe them themselves, but this Monk has suffered a fault and < 1278190692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is incapable of believing anything for longer than five minutes-, but instead lets it go free" --Wikipedia < 1278190698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MANY DASHES AND COMMAS < 1278190727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nesting is needed. < 1278190759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could have at least used parentheses. Or actual dash characters. < 1278190772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway... I want to write a typesetter. Please talk me out of it. < 1278190772 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THat Electric Monk thing sounds Pratchett-esque.. or, wait, no, it's what my old religion book claimed about idols < 1278190774 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe both < 1278190777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—– < 1278190779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well eff you < 1278190790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Did you write it? :P < 1278190802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nope. < 1278190854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a nerd orgasm at the Prolog reference. :P < 1278190860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, really, the whole book is an extended nerd orgasm. < 1278190950 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What book? < 1278190963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said; Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. < 1278190982 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, should buy that at some point < 1278191029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to bet that Knuth will complete TAOCP before he dies? I, in turn, will counter-bet that he won't. < 1278191053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's rather obvious that he won't < 1278191085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he wants to complete it, and perhaps volume 4 is just his most intensive; I imagine he will be a bit quicker once his death looms. < 1278191096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still bet he won't finish it, but I don't rule out the opposite. < 1278191101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume 4 is rather intensive. < 1278191102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, I hope I'm wrong. < 1278191133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first three did come out fairly quickly < 1278191133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be more like insurance: if it turns out Knuth dies before completing TAOCP, I'll be terribly sad; the money will be my payout. < 1278191151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though volumes 5 through 7 will be on languages. < 1278191161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it's possible; I thought they'd taken longer < 1278191182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betting against your desired outcome, incidentally, is an awesome method of insurance. < 1278191232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been 37 years since volume 3 came out. < 1278191238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Knuth Shuffle should be a dance. < 1278191245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodness *gracious* Knuth is taking a long time on 4. < 1278191249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Aye, but he's... taking his time with Volume 4. And he sort of took a long break. < 1278191260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is "planned for 2015" < 1278191277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So he's probably writing 5 concurrently, then. < 1278191281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Volume 5 - Syntactic Algorithms, planned (as of August 2006, estimated in 2015). < 1278191282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Chapter 9 - Lexical scanning < 1278191282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Chapter 10 - Parsing techniques < 1278191283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not much. < 1278191294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume 5 - Syntactic Algorithms, planned (as of August 2006, estimated in 2015). < 1278191295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. < 1278191298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Volume 4 is coming out this year. < 1278191298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*estimated in < 1278191302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or early next year. < 1278191304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, volume 4 is the only one divided into subvolumes so far. < 1278191316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume 5 will be a two-chapter affair, like the first three, and so will be quite easy to write in comparison. < 1278191325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Volume 6 - Theory of Context-Free Languages, planned. < 1278191330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you could write a ginormous volume on that. < 1278191334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Volume 7 - Compiler Techniques, planned. < 1278191337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be a big'un. < 1278191352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that that's what the book was supposed to be about initially. < 1278191378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He definitely won't write more than ten volumes; I bet he'll probably stop at around number 8. It's a nice round number in octal, and it lets him write a "tie-it-all-together" volume after seven. < 1278191380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*after 7. < 1278191458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, volume 6 and 7 will apparently only be written if Knuth can still say anything relevant about their subjects. < 1278191486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he can't, he will finish at volume 5, thereby having covered the core of imperative programming. < 1278191493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth has a rather personal definition of "relevant", methinks. < 1278191502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He considers multi-core processors to be irrelevant, after all. < 1278191514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278191576 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh knuth :( < 1278191590 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he'll shove off his mortal coil before he gets round to all these < 1278191604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: Nah; he can write a volume quickly, just not volume 4. < 1278191653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately for us, he is still in good health. < 1278191695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth will come back as the Second Coming of Jesus. Thereupon he will impart unto us the final volumes of The Art of Computer Programming. < 1278191779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget he has to update volumes 1-3 with MMIX < 1278191801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Does he plan to? < 1278191849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's MMIX better than MIX < 1278191881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's less bizarre, IIRC. < 1278191961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278192064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MMIX updating is actually being done by volunteers, and is mostly finished. < 1278192074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: MMIX is a sane RISC. < 1278192085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, then, is MIX? < 1278192085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIX is a 40-year-old, crazy CISC. < 1278192089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1278192103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a base 10 architecture. < 1278192120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only sane ISC is an OISC! < 1278192132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also illegible < 1278192200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more one-operand OISCs, other than RSSB. < 1278192216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wrong, it's a binary-decimal architecture. < 1278192226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When programmed in binary, each byte has 6 bits (values range from 0 to 63). In decimal, each byte has 2 decimal digits (values range from 0 to 99). Bytes are grouped into words of five bytes plus a sign. Most programs written for MIX will work in either binary or decimal, so long as they do not try to store a value greater than 63 in a single byte. < 1278192226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word has the range â’1,073,741,823 to 1,073,741,823 (inclusive) in binary mode, and â’9,999,999,999 to 9,999,999,999 (inclusive) in decimal mode. < 1278192230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sign-and-magnitude representation of integers in the MIX architecture distinguishes between “â’0” and “+0.” < 1278192252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth is bat-shit insane. < 1278192259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you consider MiniMAX single-operand? < 1278192282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure I even consider MiniMAX a thing. < 1278192291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, no: "A MiniMAX program consists of a series of 3-word commands". < 1278192300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: except that they overlap < 1278192307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet figured out if the commands have 0, 1, 2, or 3 operands < 1278192319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd rather not think about it. < 1278192466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, you yourself prompted a similar question later -- or was it earlier? -- with your proof. < 1278192474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the definition of an operand, really? < 1278192486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced there is one, in corner cases < 1278192511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even look at Haskell, and you'll be flummoxed as to how many operands many of the functions have < 1278192539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all have exactly one < 1278192550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: First line -- agreed; second line -- what? < 1278192555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean currying? < 1278192558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Deewiant said. < 1278192573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, currying < 1278192590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exactly one" doesn't really work, because some take zero < 1278192612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to call those functions instead of constants, fair enough < 1278192615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero or one < 1278192663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a function is something of type ((->) a b) for some a and b. < 1278192678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Integer and other such things do not qualify for the title. < 1278192701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, so you're saying that all functions (i.e. things not of base type) take one operand, everything else takes 0? < 1278192713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1278192747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm saying that everything else doesn't take things at all, so it's a moot point. < 1278193115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you have any idea why paracetamol is popular? < 1278193148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The other non-aspirin painkillers only became legal for OTC use recently. < 1278193198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paracetamol came to be used OTC in the 50s. < 1278193333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Something wrong with aspirin? < 1278193364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Rough on the stomach, can cause Reye's syndrome. < 1278193374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1278193374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in children) < 1278193398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reduces blood clotting < 1278193410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't swallow pills and needed a painkiller yesterday so I had ibuprofen capsule dust in water. < 1278193426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'd breathed with my nose, my mouth warned me, I would taste the most disgusting taste you can taste. I didn't, though. < 1278193467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but that's generally not an issue. < 1278193477 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be, though. < 1278193489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278193491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for ibuprofen, then. < 1278193505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And naproxen sodium. < 1278193522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the UK, 250 mg tablets of naproxen were approved for OTC sale under the brand name Feminax Ultra in 2008, for the treatment of primary dysmenorrhoea in women aged 15 to 50." < 1278193535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wha? < 1278193551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US it's approved for general painkiller use and has been since '94. < 1278193552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, basically, in the UK, no, not hooray for that :P < 1278193567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very weird. < 1278193608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, we also class melatonin as a prescription-only medicine, and outlaw cannabis. < 1278193631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you guys care about safety at *all* with your drugs. < 1278193646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or getting stoned. < 1278193650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that the US is all that good about it. < 1278193811 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1278194017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1278194255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like magic-as-a-programming-language a bit more than I should probably like it. < 1278194339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What're you reading now? < 1278194348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing right now. < 1278194354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1278194469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inquiry: should I make curry tonight? < 1278194481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upsides: curry is delicious. Downsides: curry is work. < 1278194571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How tired are you? < 1278194578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exceptionally. < 1278194582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time? < 1278194590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently 16:02. < 1278194678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you plan to curry? < 1278194697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, the original name for the dish is schönfinkel, not curry. < 1278194701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an hour or two. < 1278194717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry actually originates from Russia, true fact. < 1278194727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you feeling particularly motivated? < 1278194740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *exceptionally*. < 1278194745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, curry *is* delicious. < 1278195239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just ... your situation is so mediocrely balanced that I cannot give any advice. < 1278195242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just choose, dammit. < 1278195257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm also hungry. < 1278195259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278195273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to make some fucking curry? < 1278195291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION covers alise in curry powder < 1278195337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... has disturbing implications given my current "name-gender" and the cursing in my previous line. < 1278195338 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278195386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1278195417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still covered in curry powder. < 1278195428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes you are. < 1278195515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278195563 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278195636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[awkward silence] < 1278195777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278195910 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-116.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278196152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"University of Reddit"? Get the fuck out of my internet. < 1278196346 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HS, I took a Java course, meaning I don't need to take one now. < 1278196352 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, my teacher was HORRIBLE. < 1278196359 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've heard good things about this teacher < 1278196364 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm considering taking it anyway < 1278196408 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crud < 1278196410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you're considering taking a Java course. < 1278196412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you so stupid? :| < 1278196415 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm almost done with the BCS stuff < 1278196431 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning the rest of my undergraduate career will be boring stuff :/ < 1278196625 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Information Security course is an online course :/ < 1278196695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "University of Reddit"? Get the fuck out of my internet. <-- what?! where was that mentioned!? < 1278196704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://universityofreddit.com/v2/ < 1278196713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shitty look-let's-pretend-to-teach-people-with-reddit-pots. < 1278196736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who are behind it? < 1278196741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know something, you can teach it! So here's a list of people who promise that they're going to attempt to teach it! Honest! Please ignore the empty threads behind the curtain. < 1278196752 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278196759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1278196762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple people, it seems. < 1278196769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make template files for phpBB Can you please tell me if I have done it correctly? http://sprunge.us/WdYI < 1278196777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #phpbb and #phpbb-coding channels are not help < 1278196784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want other people's opinion too < 1278196790 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278196793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest not using phpBB. < 1278196819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other FOSS forum software is there? < 1278196835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of decent quality that is < 1278196837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am not using phpBB. < 1278196847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm... none. Forums are shit. < 1278196850 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to write a template for it anyways, as well as for other systems later < 1278196853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes < 1278196857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbPress would be good, if it wasn't shit. < 1278196866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is true for almost everything < 1278196869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vanilla would be good, if its author wasn't a shitbag. < 1278196894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17373.892849] thinkpad_acpi: EC reports that Thermal Table has changed < 1278196897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTH is that < 1278196938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the current time I don't care which forums softwares are good or not (I'm not installing any of them). I just want to make template files < 1278196972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, how are you going to be able to make template files without testing them... < 1278196999 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, is there some way for a simple program to parse templates with filling in example data? < 1278197014 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No PHP codes are included in phpBB templates. < 1278197019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for something so complicated as that, most likely. < 1278197021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses its own template codes < 1278197032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh ... I'd just install phpBB under the hypothetical situation in which I'd write a phpBB template; which I wouldn't. < 1278197043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, same < 1278197047 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a database < 1278197048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you are talking to zzo < 1278197064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Write an SQL server with MySQL compatibility. < 1278197074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He isn't an alien, you know, and he's right in the room. < 1278197087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any remote service that can test phpBB templates? < 1278197100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not even finished writing it yet < 1278197110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean, the least wrong room < 1278197130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you *could* use mysql < 1278197134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want you to tell me if it is correct so far? Please look at the files tell me if it is right so far < 1278197135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's right here, in the room. < 1278197144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know nothing of phpBB, like sane people. < 1278197156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as alise on that one < 1278197177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But kudos for using a shar :P < 1278197195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278197333 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1278197434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I'm reading the SCP wiki. < 1278197436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop me. < 1278197628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278197779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try this link http://tinyurl.com/5cd2rl < 1278197790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it will prevent you from reading the SCP wiki for a while < 1278197813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the ashes and into the fire < 1278197825 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278198188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278198264 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, SCP < 1278198266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a fun site < 1278198372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, are you going to click the link I linked? < 1278198386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, link that I linked? wtf XF < 1278198387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD* < 1278198393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though correct.. tinyurl < 1278198470 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I've already went to SCP instead < 1278198504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it was tvtropes ;P < 1278198515 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/revised-entry < 1278198528 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[strong language] < 1278198791 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278198872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verified sighting of SCP-173 in â–â–â–â–, Wales, The United Kingdom. Nuclear bombardment authorized and executed. No survivors. < 1278198896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't fit the style < 1278198913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :revised-entry is, I am pretty sure, a joke. < 1278198918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, that does fit the style. < 1278198927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sorta. < 1278199044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Novels -- or, more likely, collections of short stories/novellas -- set around the SCP foundation would be awesome. < 1278199049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the incident reports, only more novelly. < 1278199061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, you'd need to include all the relevant SCP files before the stories, and that'd probably give stuff away. < 1278199066 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/foundation-tales < 1278199082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could publish every single SCP in a volume you're expected to have, but reading it would be an encyclopedic journey. < 1278199083 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = print =<< (randomRIO(0,1)) < 1278199111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: They're probably shitty though. < 1278199113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fanfiction usually is. < 1278199116 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... lol < 1278199117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf am I doing < 1278199119 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,1) < 1278199129 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = print =<< (randomRIO (0,1)) < 1278199137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-420-j. < 1278199251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And no, that does fit the style. <-- yes but it breaks pretty much everything else < 1278199272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Howso? < 1278199273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like the incident reports, only more novelly. <-- which ones? < 1278199283 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t System.Random.randomRIO < 1278199284 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random.randomRIO :: (System.Random.Random a) => (a, a) -> IO a < 1278199288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um... there are a few, like the one where Kondraki tries to kill ... that girl. < 1278199289 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (<<=) < 1278199293 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (=<<) < 1278199295 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=<<) :: (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1278199296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/incident-reports-eye-witness-interviews-and-personal-logs < 1278199304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh wait the dates are blocked out < 1278199312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I guess you could always put it at a later date then < 1278199322 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1278199322 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1278199333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: true, it breaks real-world chronology < 1278199334 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1278199335 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1278199340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think of that < 1278199354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alternatively, it was covered up < 1278199361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no survivors = in that area, not in wales entirely < 1278199378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nuclear carpet bombing of north america covered up? < 1278199386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh yeah. Right < 1278199405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Verified sighting of SCP-173 in â–â–â–â–, Wales, The United Kingdom. Nuclear bombardment authorized and executed. No survivors. < 1278199412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some place in Wales == North America < 1278199425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1)) >>= print < 1278199426 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are programs still limited to a single line? < 1278199428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I meant: < 1278199430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Containment Zone X1, formerly North and South America, is to be denied access. Following saturation nuclear bombing on â–â–/â–â–/â–â–â–â–, number of SCP-173 instances has been reduced." < 1278199436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, from section above < 1278199437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: don't think so. I've been importing things. < 1278199438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh. Fair enough then. < 1278199447 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was some kind of error output < 1278199467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working at the SCP foundation would be cool if you were high up enough and weren't prone to nightmares. < 1278199476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278199485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myself, even the knowledge that the files were true would give me a mental breakdown. < 1278199496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1278199516 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print < 1278199519 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1278199525 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguous type from Num apparently. < 1278199536 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not all Nums are Randoms, essentially. < 1278199549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, it just can't decide which to use < 1278199584 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp decisionengine haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print < 1278199585 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter decisionengine installed. < 1278199593 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real decision engine. < 1278199622 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if only it knew that I didn't care which one it used. :P < 1278199652 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess this is why explicit type signatures are good. < 1278199688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi often decides for you. < 1278199702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how nice of it. < 1278199755 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once thought that random numbers in Haskell were a pain in the ass < 1278199767 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's really the same as any other language. Sort of. < 1278199772 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do have to think slightly more. < 1278199798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell can be a pain in the ass... its type theory is so limited! < 1278199812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably need to practice using Control.Monad and related functions. < 1278199827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh :(){ :|:& };: < 1278199832 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? :) < 1278199839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what on earth is that. < 1278199843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it'll get killed < 1278199845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: a forkbomb < 1278199852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deobfuscating the function name: < 1278199857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bomb() { bomb | bomb & }; bomb < 1278199862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you see how it works? < 1278199873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1278199878 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er, sort of. < 1278199893 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python: src/filesysobj.c:132: filesys_obj_check: Assertion `obj->refcount > 0' failed. < 1278199903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very familiar with using subroutines in bash, but I get | and & and all that. < 1278199949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A self-hosted implementation in IRP does not exist because if it did it would be quite annoying." < 1278199953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it just sits and never halts as it waits for IO < 1278199954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It just defines a command, basically. < 1278199954 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh import sys < 1278199956 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/import: /usr/lib/plash/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.9' not found (required by /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0) < 1278199964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Er... no. < 1278199970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bomb() { bomb | bomb & } < 1278199973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if we call bomb, < 1278199982 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1278199983 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1278199984 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it... never halts, right? < 1278199987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it spawns two new bombs in the background < 1278199990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and halts immediately < 1278199991 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1278199993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both those bombs then < 1278199997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawn two new bombs in the background < 1278199999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and halt immediately < 1278200000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit. < 1278200003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those 4 bombs then < 1278200005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawn two new bombs in the background < 1278200006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and halt immediately < 1278200013 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I see the pattern now. :) < 1278200016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few seconds, the system is bogged down. < 1278200069 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / < 1278200070 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin < 1278200078 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does & bind < 1278200081 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1278200086 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bomb | (bomb &) < 1278200093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the whole line? < 1278200098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's bomb | (bomb &) < 1278200104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's the only version that would keep the processes around. < 1278200107 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I read it anyways. < 1278200188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad; import System.Posix.Process; forkBomb = forever $ forkProcess forkBomb < 1278200226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it is not so flawed :) < 1278200236 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's awesome :) < 1278200244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wouldn't they explode? < 1278200248 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how he did it < 1278200260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wat < 1278200264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: simple < 1278200265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bad joke < 1278200309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: EgoBot runs as its own user, in a chroot. Inside this chroot, it runs plash, which is a sandboxing solution for Debian. He uses this to turn off everything dangerous. Then, he sets extreme ulimits. < 1278200310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Job done. < 1278200331 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin < 1278200331 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :411toppm < 1278200401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin | tr '\n' ' ' < 1278200406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin | xargs echo < 1278200406 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :411toppm X11 [ a2p addftinfo addpart addr2line afmtodit animate anytopnm aot-compile appletviewer apropos apt apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-extracttemplates apt-ftparchive apt-get apt-key apt-mark apt-sortpkgs aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-run-state-bundle ar arch as asciitopgm aspell aspell-import atktopbm austro autopoint awk b1ff base64 basename bashbug bc bdftopcf bdftops bdftruncate bioradtopgm bmptopnm bmptoppm brooklyn brus < 1278200415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11! < 1278200417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh X11 < 1278200417 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.15104: line 1: X11: command not found < 1278200422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200422 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.15135: line 1: /usr/bin/X11: is a directory < 1278200425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh /usr/bin/X < 1278200426 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.15162: line 1: /usr/bin/X: No such file or directory < 1278200429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200429 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ps axww < 1278200430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :411toppm < 1278200442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.23495.hs:1:57: Not in scope: `isAlpha' < 1278200442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278200442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.23495.hs:1:70: Not in scope: `isSpace' < 1278200442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278200442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.23495.hs:1:151: Not in scope: `isAlpha' < 1278200443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278200445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.23495.hs:1:164: Not in scope: `isSpace' < 1278200447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278200449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.23495.hs:1:245: Not in scope: `toLower' < 1278200451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278200453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1278200454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -d /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200455 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/X11 < 1278200455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin/X11 | xargs echo < 1278200456 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :411toppm X11 [ a2p addftinfo addpart addr2line afmtodit animate anytopnm aot-compile appletviewer apropos apt apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-extracttemplates apt-ftparchive apt-get apt-key apt-mark apt-sortpkgs aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-run-state-bundle ar arch as asciitopgm aspell aspell-import atktopbm austro autopoint awk b1ff base64 basename bashbug bc bdftopcf bdftops bdftruncate bioradtopgm bmptopnm bmptoppm brooklyn brus < 1278200457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /usr/bin/X11 | xargs echo < 1278200458 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :411toppm X11 [ a2p addftinfo addpart addr2line afmtodit animate anytopnm aot-compile appletviewer apropos apt apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-extracttemplates apt-ftparchive apt-get apt-key apt-mark apt-sortpkgs aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-run-state-bundle ar arch as asciitopgm aspell aspell-import atktopbm austro autopoint awk b1ff base64 basename bashbug bc bdftopcf bdftops bdftruncate bioradtopgm bmptopnm bmptoppm brooklyn brus < 1278200462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. < 1278200463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -dl /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200464 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: /usr/bin/X11: Function not implemented < 1278200467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1278200469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1278200471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -ld /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200472 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: /usr/bin/X11: Function not implemented < 1278200477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls ls -l /usr/bin/X11 | xargs echo < 1278200482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls --version | xargs echo < 1278200483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls (GNU coreutils) 7.4 Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Written by Richard M. Stallman and David MacKenzie. < 1278200483 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh python < 1278200485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls ls -l /usr/bin/X11 2>&1 | xargs echo < 1278200491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -l /usr/bin/X11 2>&1 | xargs echo < 1278200492 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: /usr/bin/X11: Function not implemented lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 1 May 2 2009 /usr/bin/X11 -> . < 1278200493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol !ls < 1278200496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how can ls -l fail like that < 1278200504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I dunno, plash disables all sorts < 1278200510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run ls < 1278200513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run ls -l < 1278200514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run? < 1278200515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh < 1278200515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1278200519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l < 1278200519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run is HackEgo < 1278200528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l /usr/bin/X11 < 1278200534 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 1 Jun 19 2009 /usr/bin/X11 -> . < 1278200534 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total 564 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jul 3 22:41 bin \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 61187 Jul 3 22:41 cube2.base64 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 45293 Jul 3 22:41 cube2.jpg \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 20 Jul 3 22:41 hack_gregor \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 10 Jul 3 22:41 hello.txt \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 166 Jul 3 22:41 help.txt \ -rw-r--r-- < 1278200541 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = main < 1278200542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works better < 1278200543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1278200550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main@m=m < 1278200561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main@m=putStr"dickbutt ">>m < 1278200562 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main@m? < 1278200563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /usr/bin/X < 1278200565 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278200568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah < 1278200570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /usr/bin/XOrg 2>&1 < 1278200571 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bash: line 1: /usr/bin/XOrg: No such file or directory < 1278200575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do (Foo bar)@x or was it x@(Foo bar) < 1278200579 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I thought @ was for list matching. < 1278200580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binds x to (Foo bar) and pattern matches < 1278200586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin/X* | xargs echo < 1278200588 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2to3-2.6 X11 [ a2p addpart addr2line apropos apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-extracttemplates apt-ftparchive apt-get apt-key apt-mark apt-sortpkgs aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-curses aptitude-run-state-bundle ar arch as awk axi-cache base64 basename bashbug bdftopcf bdftops bdftruncate bsd-from bsd-write c++ < 1278200596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -d /usr/bin/X* | xargs echo < 1278200597 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/X11 < 1278200598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so main@m or m@main whichever it is assigns main and "pattern matches" it as m inside the body < 1278200598 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh so @ just works on any pattern. < 1278200748 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh tree < 1278200748 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.15940: line 1: tree: command not found < 1278200771 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278200776 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh df -h < 1278200777 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory < 1278200782 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "I am a man from the future" < 1278200783 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a man from the future < 1278200801 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh mount < 1278200802 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plash: warning: setuid/gid bit not honoured on `/bin/mount' < 1278200900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, presumably mount doesn't work very well if it doesn't run setuid < 1278200917 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems to ave shown me what I wanted to know < 1278200923 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have < 1278201034 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /proc/meminfo < 1278201034 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MemTotal: 1048792 kB < 1278201048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is something in D&D game http://sprunge.us/gGec OK, your turn < 1278201118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo PING < 1278201131 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the source code of eggbot available ? < 1278201184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eggbot? XD < 1278201189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1278201190 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1278201205 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot, sorry :) < 1278201214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chickenzilla: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ < 1278201217 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs some sleep. < 1278201222 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks ! < 1278201234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I have a commit there. Cool. < 1278201271 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should run my MUD server off of HackEgo. :P < 1278201330 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ping google.com < 1278201331 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1278201360 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ping google.com < 1278201360 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plash: warning: setuid/gid bit not honoured on `/bin/ping' < 1278201402 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ifconfig -a < 1278201402 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.16397: line 1: ifconfig: command not found < 1278201421 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1278201423 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1278201433 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`su < 1278201434 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278201451 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does ping need setuid? < 1278201453 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`df -h < 1278201454 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278201461 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run df -h < 1278201462 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278201470 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I using hackego correctly? < 1278201488 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -a < 1278201489 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.16621 \ wunderbar_emporium < 1278201545 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /bin/df < 1278201546 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278201602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: because you can't send arbitrary ICMP messages without root privs < 1278201611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could really snarfle up a network < 1278201641 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh telnet < 1278201642 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.16734: line 1: telnet: command not found < 1278201734 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh uname -a < 1278201734 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1278201883 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278201910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder how Plan 9 does ping? < 1278201912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no setuid. < 1278202033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU GUIs: any recommendations? < 1278202160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the thing to add a user to a group? addgroup? < 1278202256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just edit /etc/passwd. < 1278202281 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you're missing an OS somewhere < 1278202300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ? < 1278202303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant frontends.. never mind :) < 1278202641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278202715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `ls command is broke O NO < 1278202717 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1278202732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O NO < 1278202733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278202746 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278202798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it break all the time like that? < 1278202831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278202833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1278202840 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278202996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/gGec < 1278203139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: adduser user group, IIRC < 1278203159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i was trying to do kvm not kqemu >_< < 1278203207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That URL is something for D&D game, do you have any opinion of it? < 1278203212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers just buying Kindle books from now on < 1278203258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, don't support the Kindle. < 1278203259 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why? < 1278203271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any other suggestions? < 1278203292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just buy proper books, with paper < 1278203298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get some other ebook reader? I'm not sure that there /is/ a good ebook store. Piracy would be a reasonable option. < 1278203306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can't carry a hundred books around with you -- especially textbooks. < 1278203313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, I do enjoy paper. < 1278203323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see any ebook reader match the typography achieved by well-set books. < 1278203349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do carry around a lot of books when necessary < 1278203369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no Kindle edition of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency < 1278203416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Buy the dead tree version. Adams typeset it himself, on a Macintosh Plus II (IIRC)! < 1278203425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he typeset it himself with MacAuthor, that's in the introduction. < 1278203464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has one or two blatant spelling errors though. < 1278203469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("tjat" for "that", for instance.) < 1278203495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, MacAuthor was MacWriter's codename. But it was 1987, so it would be MacWriter. Curious. < 1278203502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't pirate it, who would I be supporting? < 1278203530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278203534 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1278203539 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: evil corporations. < 1278203548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: publishers. < 1278203559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps half a penny to his widow. < 1278203623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hm. < 1278203626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if he was actually married. < 1278203643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they did. < 1278203770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer reading on my N1 to physical books < 1278203782 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278203835 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to my internet? Huh. < 1278203915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278203983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1278203988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to read HHGG again < 1278203996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this is only the sample < 1278204000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278204014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have a long-term-ish plan to produce a wonderful, (La)TeX-set H2G2. < 1278204030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spurred on by Quadrescence's homemade printing press. < 1278204043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typesetting < 1278204045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head < 1278204061 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tl;dr it'll look really pretty and you'll feel happy as you read it. < 1278204097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I have been unable to obtain a good text source. < 1278204107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need one with the italic Guide text marked and with some way to differentiate opening and closing quotes. < 1278204162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION upsets at lack of Dirk Gently on Kindle < 1278204166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm half tempted to pirate < 1278204178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because there's some thorough source for Aldiko < 1278204196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, the pirated stuff seems to be crappily done < 1278204207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried a Pratchett book, didn't see any footnotes < 1278204236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278204249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm; we really need better contraband books. < 1278204258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicely-set LaTeX. :P < 1278204290 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait until .so is available. < 1278204292 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember who invented Lisp < 1278204292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc6.so < 1278204294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is his name. < 1278204296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: McCarthy. < 1278204298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1278204303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you see his Elephant language? < 1278204306 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John McCarthy. < 1278204310 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have read little bits about it. < 1278204316 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very well documented as it's probably just a concept at this point < 1278204332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His mind is still sharp, it seems. < 1278204339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278204346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I fully understand Elephant though < 1278204407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"End of this sample Kindle book" < 1278204408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1278204436 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278204454 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I like the idea of being able to refer to the past as a means of memory. < 1278204463 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just unsure of the implementation. < 1278204537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency is here < 1278204550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guilties < 1278204602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, indiscriminatelyfrom? < 1278204611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that from the original, or a typo in this verison? < 1278204618 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Typo, I am pretty sure. < 1278204623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1278204628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fuck it, want me to mail you my paperback? < 1278204650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably buy it, but I end up losing paperbacks eventually < 1278204653 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if I can fetch arbitrary URLs to egobot < 1278204666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing really stopping me from compiling programming language interpreters/compilers onto it, correct? < 1278204678 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: indeed. it's easier just to send a revision to Gregor, though < 1278204681 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, HackEgo is more suited to that < 1278204691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot doesn't really keep state afaik < 1278204691 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perhaps < 1278204699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1278204699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I have Internet access whereever I go, I'm more willing to go to the bookstore < 1278204702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant HackEgo actually < 1278204713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that has a sandbox < 1278204779 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could combine functional programming with temporal logic as in Elephant < 1278204826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does The Last Hero have to be one of very few Pratchett books not on Kindle? < 1278204832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of very few I haven't read < 1278204832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest function of the past is the value of some parameter at a given time, say the account balance of a certain person on January 5, 1991. References to the past are rarely this simple. < 1278204836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next we may consider the time of a certain event, say the time when a person was born. < 1278204838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Discworld, not Pratchett in general < 1278204840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly more complex is the first or last time a certain event occurred or a certain parameter had a certain value, say the most recent time a certain person was overdrawn at his bank. < 1278204844 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More generally, we may consider the unique time or the first or last time a certain proposition was true. < 1278204936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the if-where concept would come in handy for that. if where < 1278204998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than breaking it up into two statements. < 1278205062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it's 20 centimeters on a side, in larger print, and very illustrated < 1278205195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: egobot has a sandbox < 1278205198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not persistance afaik < 1278205204 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*persistence < 1278205205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, guess I have to buy a print version < 1278205217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted all my books from now on to be eBooks :/ < 1278205218 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Stop buying Kindle books. < 1278205231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't bought any yet < 1278205247 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't. < 1278205265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1278205296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the Kindle is a closed, DRM'd platform with the ability -- and which has happened, with Animal Farm and 1984 -- to yank books remotely from your Kindle device. < 1278205302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo, don't support Amazon's Kindle endeavours. < 1278205311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1278205314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatives? < 1278205382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the issue, isn't it. < 1278205401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what Sony readers recommend. < 1278205416 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ebookstore.sony.com/ Hmm. < 1278205442 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Any ebook store will work, really, as long as they use some format that your reader supports; if it's the Kindle, then ... options are limited. < 1278205454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Kindle doesn't support ebook files, afaik. < 1278205458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what about the Nook? What system does that use? B&N's, presumably. < 1278205462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a Nexus One < 1278205497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nook sucks because it's quite slow, the actual-screen is distracting and laggy, and the you-can-only-lend-one-copy-lol is asshattery disguised as a revolutionary revival of the true nature of books. < 1278205514 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a nexus one, anything goes; presumably everything has an appropriate reader. But honestly, reading on that screen is not good for you! < 1278205517 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nexus One < 1278205519 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you won't enjoy it. < 1278205591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding it comfortable so far < 1278205594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: when/if I complete an Android game app < 1278205595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my limited experience < 1278205597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should playtest it. :) < 1278205603 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you're wrong. < 1278205604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, will do :D < 1278205623 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it'll be sort of Metroid-inspired < 1278205638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 360 degree aiming... if it turns out we can actually animate that. < 1278205639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard Aquaria was.. Metroidy in some way? < 1278205654 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, dunno. I've never heard of it. < 1278205667 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'm really not sure I have the programming experience to pull off my ideas < 1278205672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the game design experience < 1278205675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read a dozen (or three) books on the N900 (which I guess has a similar screen) so far, but of course that's just me; I tend to read books with a monospace terminal font in less anyway. < 1278205677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I can... I think it will sell very well. < 1278205701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIMESTRETCH. PROJECTILE. PUZZLES. < 1278205738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The physical page-flippin keys -- officially volume control, or zoom in browser -- are a nice addition, though.) < 1278205754 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow me to clarify: as a puzzle element of the game you can fire missiles that stretch-time in the radius around them upon explosion. You would use this to run by turrets as their otherwise unavoidable bullets are slowed. < 1278205836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...don't even ask me if I can program that. But I've found a sweet open source 2d engine for Android < 1278205839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make things easier. < 1278205969 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's a great idea. make it free :| < 1278206007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278206009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1278206012 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need money. :P < 1278206019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ads! < 1278206026 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I plan on doing is releasing the code open source but copyrighting the artwork. < 1278206040 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. dunno. perhaps ads would be worthwhile as I would get more total downloads < 1278206053 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least there will be a free version. Every successful Android game has a free version < 1278206069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that's true of iOS games as well < 1278206075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, that would be fairly.. sad < 1278206097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I suggest offering support for profit. ...Wait. < 1278206109 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have my general objection to copyright, really. :P < 1278206147 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: me too, but unfortunately I see the practical benefits. Especially being unemployed. < 1278206148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unenforcable != should be legal < 1278206168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^trap I've fallen into way too much < 1278206172 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nice of you to be so presumptious of your reasons. < 1278206177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have far deeper arguments about copyright. < 1278206184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of my reasons < 1278206276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't have very solid reasons for supporting no-copyright, but I can defend against the typical reasons < 1278206286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's counter-intuitive to capitalism. < 1278206333 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but I lack the time to open this can of worms < 1278206336 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have places to go. < 1278206357 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk to you guys later. < 1278206415 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye CakeProphet :) < 1278206997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why should there be unenforcable laws? < 1278207013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they do is bloat the legal system, after all. < 1278207076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They encourage more lawful people to follow them < 1278207093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people who care about following the rules < 1278207116 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they get run over by the people who don't < 1278207116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, in my case, I have a tendency to care about that, while philisophically disagreeing with such a mentality :/ < 1278207133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not always < 1278207145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being seen to break the law, even an unenforceable one, sometimes has other drawbacks < 1278207150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like people trusting you less from then on < 1278207154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ssh, I'm playing devil's advocate here! < 1278207166 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people have a strong will to follow unenforcable laws that they do not think are right. < 1278207176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they will still do what they think is right in the absence of unenforcable laws. < 1278207193 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are useless except for people like ais523 -- but then he'd be morally perfect even in the absence of laws. < 1278207194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only when the law in question is commonly seen as a reasonable moral code. < 1278207207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1278207213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, is a law necessary? < 1278207213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're in a rather unusual community for some reason < 1278207215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the thing is, laws *do not exist to dictate morality*... < 1278207226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws exist to codify it < 1278207245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exist to keep society running. < 1278207249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not want laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them." --Demonax, Roman philosopher and possessor of the most badass name in history. < 1278207252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give a flying fuck about morality. < 1278207275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, laws are useful if only as a prediction of how the police and courts will behave < 1278207276 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, back then there were a lot fewer book-keeping laws and it was mostly legislation of morality. < 1278207279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Soo... how about them laws against gay marriage? < 1278207304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Those cause issues in the functioning of society, by causing unequal treatment of members of it. < 1278207306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the ironic thing is, I don't see how definition of what counts as marriage or not has anything to do with morality < 1278207309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a definition < 1278207326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but it exists as a reflection of morals < 1278207333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, OK < 1278207337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :law is effect here, rather than cause < 1278207342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278207345 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marriage is between a man and many women, like it always used to be! < 1278207353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, acting in opposition to the purpose of a legal system. < 1278207358 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *many girls < 1278207383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If laws existed to enforce morality, then surely, surely they'd legislate against more immoral behaviors. < 1278207433 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the reductio ad absurdum of enforcing morality is extreme fascism. A slippery slope argument, yes, but one that conservatives have been steadily sliding down for quite a while now. < 1278207483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Is it really a "slippery slope" argument if people are actually advocating it? < 1278207503 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, indeed. < 1278207507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem there is that the distribution of political is unbalanced; the people performing the immoral acts are the ones with all the power < 1278207515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/political/political power/ < 1278207526 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that economic immorality goes unpunished. < 1278207547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hooray, we have one of the major reasons why legal systems legislate hardly anything based on any reason at all! :P < 1278207548 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ecological immorality (BP got a slap on the wrist). < 1278207559 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278207566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: their stock price plummeted miles, which is more than just a slap on the wrist < 1278207571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It does not go entirely unpunished < 1278207575 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to go eat now. < 1278207576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the markets managed to punish them pretty effectively, even if the government didn't < 1278207581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly doesn't get punished appropriately < 1278207583 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but they sell fucking /oil/, they'll be back up soon < 1278207609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Could you please remove the curry powder from my body? < 1278207611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US is going to be on BP's ass for a lot of money for a long time < 1278207644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corruption is a real problem in basically every government in the world < 1278207645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Sure. < 1278207665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O-kay, this is way too ambiguous. < 1278207671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US, it's big enough that it's actually noticeable, which is worrying < 1278207682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they hide it better in first-world countries < 1278207687 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on a scale of 1 to 10, how much does anarchism scare you? < 1278207692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but they sell *oil*. < 1278207694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: pretty highly < 1278207697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe around 8 or 9 < 1278207704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: under what definition of anarchism? Somalia? < 1278207715 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about, e.g. anarcho-syndicalism. < 1278207723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: a generic one where there's no authority of any kind < 1278207729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would lead to large levels of vigilantism, at least < 1278207732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that doesn't have a peaceful plan of transition scares me < 1278207734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If BP really wanted to, they could *stop selling oil in the US*. < 1278207739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vigilantes tend to be rather indiscriminate < 1278207746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby causing immediate collapse of giant chunks of infrastructure. < 1278207747 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a statement that I believe to be unjustified; people have a tendency of vastly oversimplifying anarchism. < 1278207763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just say "generic anarchism", the different strains differ *very* much. < 1278207770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and that would be how the US would get back at BP? < 1278207774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, the supply would eventually be met by other suppliers, but damn would it hurt. < 1278207775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: agreed; I was trying to interpret your question < 1278207775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what you mean < 1278207778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, < 1278207785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a third option, though < 1278207788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear about the BNP setting up its own private police force in an attempt, they claimed, to reduce crime? < 1278207805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually made things worse because the real police had to follow them around to stop them doing anything illegal < 1278207805 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1278207806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US can expropriate < 1278207850 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit of an anarcho-syndicalist, which is somewhat of a strange position for a strong cynic. < 1278207887 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to espouse liberal policies (with a libertarian bent wrt social issues), though, as anarchism is so far removed from current political debate as to be almost irrelevant to bring up. < 1278207945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I do love xkill; the indiscriminate chainsaw of the Linux world. < 1278207946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, I think you want the impression of strong authority < 1278207958 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ew, no thanks. < 1278207963 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to be living in a dictatorship, even a mock one. < 1278207973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I mean, a benevolent one < 1278207981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benevolent dictatorships are unlikely to exist < 1278207993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue being that there is no suitable benevolent dictator. < 1278207994 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." < 1278207999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you somehow persuade someone they're in a benevolent dictatorship, with an efficient police force, when there is in fact no government < 1278208001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suitable" includes "immortal". < 1278208018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would seem to be optimal, but unfortunately impossible < 1278208032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about an insane sociopath who just wants to kill people and cares not of the consequences? < 1278208045 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's killed, so what? at least he killed someone first < 1278208049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need an actual police force < 1278208055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"when there is in fact no government" < 1278208061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1278208080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to be too terrified of the nonexistent government to become corrupt < 1278208094 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense; sociopaths have no sense of morals, they simply don't care < 1278208110 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can fully believe the government will kill them but if they're insane enough to want to go on a killing spree whatever the consequences, why should they care? < 1278208127 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to use kqemu? < 1278208128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I mean, you have people who actually stop them, even the citizens at large < 1278208137 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? the police force will do it. < 1278208141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you install kqemu, then run qemu with sudo < 1278208148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: hmm < 1278208167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tend to get a lot of local crime-suppression even in, say, the UK < 1278208182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the UK we're all nosy, paranoid fuckers. < 1278208198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in places which have good reason to fear a crime, like banks and jewelery stores < 1278208221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don returned to Case Institute for his Senior Year. At the graduation ceremonies, they < 1278208221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were handing out the diplomas in alphabetical order. But they passed over don when they < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to the k’s. (Maybe lowercase k comes after Z). After all of the diplomas were handed < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out, they asked don to step up on the platform. They said for the first time in the history of < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case Institute, they were conferring a Masters Degree on a student that had been pursuing a < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bachelors Degree." < 1278208249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is KVM the new KQEMU? < 1278208267 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KQEMU, was initially released free of charge but was licensed as a closed-source proprietary product. However, since version 1.3.0pre10[5], released on February 5, 2007, it has been available under the GNU General Public License. QEMU versions starting with 0.12.0 no longer support KQEMU.[6] < 1278208280 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1278208299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KQEMU is an accelerator module < 1278208311 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's deprecated. < 1278208314 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regular QEMU will be fine. < 1278208317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just slow. < 1278208320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes some code and executes it directly < 1278208326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work on any processor < 1278208328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278208329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any x86 < 1278208359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KVM, on the other hand, requires a processor capable of doing virtualization directly < 1278208385 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is KVM a bitch to get working? < 1278208395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1278208412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it on a machine capable < 1278208453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess QEMU will be fast enough for Plan 9. < 1278208453 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, when will you read Fine Structure? < 1278208463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *alise; and when I'm out of the unit and in another country. < 1278208546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the Plan 9 mouse is slow. < 1278208691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, recursive descent was preceeded with the ridiculous "recursive ascent": < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ned Irons preceded our invention with a Recursive Ascent technique that starts off by < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling the primary routine, which makes the assumption that it should call the expression < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :routine, which makes the assumption that it must be in an assignment statement and calls < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that routine. Obviously, expressions appear in places other than assignment statements. So < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his technique makes mistakes. It recovers from the mistakes by leaving tracks that allow it < 1278208693 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find its was back to where the erroneous assumption was made. It then makes another < 1278208695 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess and starts working its way up the syntax chart again. Ned’s technique is obviously < 1278208697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower, does not exercise as tight control, and gives pretty poor error messages. He imple- < 1278208699 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mented his parser on a CDC 1604 at he University Of Princeton in 1960. He was working < 1278208701 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a group from the University Of Pennsylvania. < 1278208725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: that's pretty much just backtracking, isn't it? < 1278208731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1278208732 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but crazy < 1278208734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really is insane < 1278208750 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does ANYONE think of that before recursive descent? < 1278208754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose it could have helped to inspire the brilliantly crazy LR(1) < 1278208763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which vaguely resembles that, except actually works < 1278208776 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR(0)! fuck yeah! < 1278208787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity language designers don't use LR(1) so much nowadays, it's all LR(0), LL(1), and the occasional LALR(1) < 1278208804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is LR(infinity), btw < 1278208806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is the most complex of those? < 1278208810 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR is the most complex right? < 1278208816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR's a special case of LR < 1278208824 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1278208826 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is LL more general than LR? < 1278208828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't quite as good, but uses a fraction of the memory < 1278208829 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vice-versa? < 1278208835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and LR's more general than LL < 1278208835 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278208839 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything more general than LR? < 1278208846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mention LALR(1) because that's what yacc does < 1278208853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, bison supports GLR(1) < 1278208878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a sort of nondeterministic LR(1) < 1278208885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, more nondeterministic than LR(1) normally is < 1278208889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLR(infinity) < 1278208893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus is capable of handling /any/ lang < 1278208906 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so GLR(infinity) isn't more powerful < 1278208906 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1278208909 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, no < 1278208917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, GLR(2) would be a lot more efficient than GLR(1) at a lang that was actually LR(2) < 1278208919 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can't handle, say, ZFC, can it? < 1278208927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: err, any TC-parseable lang < 1278208927 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that's a language, technically < 1278208952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: addquote < 1278208991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208994 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209000 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. HackEgo's broken. Sorry. < 1278209000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote theoretically < 1278209007 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how did it break? < 1278209016 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209029 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a pet theory that #esoteric is one of the best places to find computer science talent in the world; the only problem is that there's a lot of fluff here too, like me and AnMaster, and the channel is so tiny. :) < 1278209051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I wouldn't be surprised < 1278209058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on what you're trying to do < 1278209070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, eBay: 31 items found < 1278209075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a kind of problem which is simultaneously theoretical computer science, and engineering < 1278209082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's that sort of problem that #esotericers are good at < 1278209083 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's your problem :P < 1278209090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up surprisingly often, but people don't recognise it < 1278209120 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: outside of academia, otoh, our solutions to those problems are ... well ... not accepted :P < 1278209130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: you don't consider me fluff? yay! < 1278209135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278209142 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed not! although i don't know if you do any actual cs < 1278209147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: nah, my solutions at least often are accepted < 1278209154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: A lot of computer science talent, but we seem to *all* suffer from project ADD. < 1278209157 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly if anyone wants a /programmer/ they'll find an excellent one here < 1278209158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Not as of yet < 1278209163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I normally need a complete rewrite to get them in anything close to language that other people understand < 1278209177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting my CS degree next year < 1278209185 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what he's considered < 1278209186 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: congratulations; you'll then know nothing about CS < 1278209195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: good thing you're in Canada rather than the UK; otherwise I might end up teaching you < 1278209198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the CS curriculum has improved significantly since the last time I looked. < 1278209199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be really embarassing, probably < 1278209202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good thing? bad thing! < 1278209212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Not really. < 1278209214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It's at UW, which is known for teaching actual CS < 1278209221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what uni do i need to go to to get taught by you, birmingham? < 1278209225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278209227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Even *MIT* have ruined their CS curriculum. < 1278209229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, a CS degree is a degree in being able to program. < 1278209231 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M I fucking T! < 1278209234 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm there < 1278209239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not actually all that good at teaching < 1278209246 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: except you can't handle fizzbuzz or linked lists < 1278209255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly all the students hate me, except for contradictory reasons < 1278209266 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't really care, it'd be cool to meet you :P < 1278209277 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could just give me A++++++++++ on everything since clearly i am awesome < 1278209284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This scenario is realistic. < 1278209284 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I was considering going to Stony Brook postgraduate so I could get an actual CS degree and education. < 1278209285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that would be bias < 1278209289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, marks are percentages < 1278209294 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: augur went to stony brook at some point < 1278209299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 111%, then! < 1278209301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad enough when you're trying to anonymously mark someone whose ID number you have memorised < 1278209303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did one better than 110%. < 1278209318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there are some serious issues with my academics, I'm going to try for a double major in pure math too < 1278209331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Uh... That's like first or second semester... < 1278209344 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did indeed! < 1278209349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do realise that plenty of people get a Bachelor's degree in CS without actually being able to do one bit of CS? < 1278209362 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently the major I'm in is .. a bit less than pure programming, I'd say < 1278209363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Somehow, yes. < 1278209371 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because (a) people are stupid and (b) a lot of universities suck. < 1278209379 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, a CS degree counts for nothing these days. < 1278209379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CS programs I've seen at least teach *programming* well. < 1278209379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quality of some of the students worries me, although most of them are very good < 1278209387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty certain that Java does not make a good first language < 1278209394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's the one I have to teach anyway < 1278209398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for that really retarded one that considered C a very hard, optional thing. < 1278209406 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the plus side, I'm at the top of every computer class... which says more about the other students, really < 1278209422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than, y'know, essential to *practical* programming these days, regardless of whether or not you use it. < 1278209445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Stop being so self-deprecating, already < 1278209462 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sgeo is simultaneously too self-deprecating and too naive. < 1278209467 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A difficult combination to achieve. < 1278209471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked my (electronic engineering) degree; the first languages they taught us were C and asm, simultaneously < 1278209479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose electronic engineers rarely work with anything higher-level < 1278209481 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think CS courses should concentrate on practical programming at all. < 1278209486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Programming, yes; practical, no. < 1278209486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: whats your interest in stony brook? < 1278209496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the current program at UW is Scheme then into Python or C (student's choice) < 1278209500 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C is probably worth teaching because if you can't understand pointers you lose. < 1278209513 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: which will you choose, do you think? < 1278209533 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd choose C; with Python there'll be an awful lot of Python-related cruft and rubbish class-ery. < 1278209539 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to bullshit C, especially if you start with Scheme. < 1278209540 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augur, a decent CS curriculum, rather than "Computer Programming/Information Systems" < 1278209541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: "Practical" in the sense of "if you do any nontrivial programming at all, you will need to understand C." < 1278209545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely choose C < 1278209553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python will be easier to pick up later, among other things < 1278209557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know both languages < 1278209559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is a language to get shit done in, not a language to understand things in. < 1278209568 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the reasons are the fact that Guido doesn't know shit himself :P < 1278209571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and learning C helps get rid of a whole bunch of awful misconceptions about how computers work < 1278209579 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro already knows both < 1278209582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have very many of those either < 1278209582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ahh, yes. i would suggest UMD cause thats where i am but i dont know if they have much hardcore computer science < 1278209583 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think he should pick C, personally < 1278209597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a CS department, ofcourse, but i dont know if theres anything theoretical being done < 1278209600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably pick C < 1278209605 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel humbles me. < 1278209607 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICTORY HAHAHA < 1278209614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: why?? < 1278209619 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: humbled me once too, just find a niche < 1278209622 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't, mind you < 1278209624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the whole situation with Python and tail-call optimisation is a really depressing one < 1278209634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it is < 1278209642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other depressing things about Python, but that's the biggest one < 1278209647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life goal is basically to be a dilettante with some specialist subjects on the side. < 1278209656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meanwhile, Perl has a special operator for TCO, and just for fun, calls it "goto") < 1278209678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has three goto statements, in fact; but the one that does TCO is the only one that Perl experts actually recommend using) < 1278209679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's easier, but I will probably learn more in C < 1278209685 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What niche would I have, besides virtual world stuff? < 1278209689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: three of them? < 1278209691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are they? < 1278209704 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't a particularly relevant niche? < 1278209720 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know VPRI? < 1278209723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was at ais523 < 1278209726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: label: goto label; my $labelname="label"; goto $labelname; sub tco_infinite_loop { goto &tco_infinite_loop; } < 1278209727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto, goto &, and goto (with a labeled loop), IIRC. < 1278209728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: who knows. play with everything, find something you like < 1278209740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, that was it. < 1278209744 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: stop being so damn nostalgic; stop caring so much about recognition... and do interesting stuff instead. < 1278209745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second form makes the heads of good-practices people explode < 1278209749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't really have any other purpose < 1278209750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding < 1278209752 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the self depreciation is partially because Alise got to me. And dang it, I need to fix that cap < 1278209763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alise < 1278209770 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said. < 1278209786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278209791 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never meant to make you hate yourself >_< < 1278209795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You're very intelligent, we all just think you're a little quirky because you spend your time on games that were in fashion 20 years ago < 1278209796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: goto & is analogous to using jmp to a function in assembly, I'm pretty sure. < 1278209821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: If you were an idiot we would have ignored you long ago. < 1278209822 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, 15 < 1278209826 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if SgeoN1 gets over the severe case of nostalgia, and gets over the extreme caring about recognition, he could do great things. < 1278209834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, although not implemented the same way < 1278209838 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and replying to that with "15" just proves coppro's point. < 1278209843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1278209855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically jumps out of one function and into another without any of the typical prologue/epilogue < 1278209892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what TCO /is/, if you think about it < 1278209916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never thought about it any other way < 1278209931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: whats your particular interest in CS? < 1278209969 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially knowing how things work, partially keeping up with this channel < 1278209970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you look at it at a higher level (say, the one Scheme works in), it's more like calling a function then deleting the second-top stack frame < 1278209978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually how it's implemented in INTERCAL < 1278210005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was in a car with my supervisor for several hours < 1278210009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A type-safe embedding of x86-64 assembly into Haskell" < 1278210010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/orgasm < 1278210020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were discussing language features < 1278210038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that INTERCAL's NEXT FROM is actually used in a few mainstream mathematical models, although ones I hadn't heard of < 1278210039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True. < 1278210043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ a very neat command < 1278210051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is NEXT FROM again? < 1278210072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't intercaled in a while < 1278210095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it causes the target line to do a function call to the current line, when it's encountered < 1278210207 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Plan 9 is installing slowly. < 1278210222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: explicit entry points :) < 1278210230 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h239.50.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278210238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, this is a sign that I need to read the spec again < 1278210301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the Revamped Manual, or maybe CLC-INTERCAL's spec; NEXT FROM's been in CLC-INTERCAL for ages, but was added to C-INTERCAL only recently < 1278210304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not in the older manual < 1278210320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, ridiculous idea for a language: we have eax-ish variable @. [<] marks an entry point, @ here will be function argument, [>] marks an exit point, @ is return, e.g. [<] x = @; @ = x + 2 [>]. [label] specifies that we jump to this label to return < 1278210334 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like generalised come from / goto with structure of a sort < 1278210342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just COME FROM that saves the address < 1278210353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring; that makes it too easy < 1278210358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's NEXT FROM that saves the address, COME FROM doesn't < 1278210359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lectures are the proper way to go < 1278210362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, NEXT saves the address < 1278210367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO TO wouldn't, but doesn't exist in INTERCAL < 1278210373 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eax? < 1278210380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's what I mean; NEXT FROM is COME FROM except that it does save the address < 1278210389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278210416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like modern INTERCAL's flow structure; easy to grasp how it works and remember it, flexible enough to do all sorts of interesting things, yet unlike other languages < 1278210422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: what about it? < 1278210424 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278210427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't seen continuation.i, try reading it sometime < 1278210471 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, it's a register, but context implies that there's something special about it. < 1278210500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: it's a register that's commonly used to pass arguments in 32-bit x86 ABIs, IIRC < 1278210511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to pass results < 1278210618 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278210825 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any thoughts about my [<], [>] idea? it's not that interesting I guess < 1278210828 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does sort of unify stuff < 1278210845 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[<] and [>] can be read as [any], i.e. "we have a language construct that specifies the label to be used here" < 1278210848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: it's sort-of how I think about INTERCAL < 1278210875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that e.g. "foo(?foo_result); [foo_result] result = @" works < 1278210883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the [>] gets reinterpreted as [foo_result], i.e. jump to foo_result < 1278210889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then we can't call functions < 1278210892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only enter < 1278210898 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a goto thing < 1278210900 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's dynamic < 1278210901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1278210939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ = 42; foo : foo_entry : foo_result; [foo_entry] [foo_result] result = @; < 1278210960 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where f:a:b means "set up f's [<] points to be [] points to be [>b]" < 1278210966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe foo < foo_entry > foo_result is a nicer syntax < 1278210984 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like... voluntary come from :) < 1278211155 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278211343 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278211448 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I can't see plan 9 ping doing anything special < 1278211453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the default user has a lot of privileges < 1278211617 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell isn't there a type-safe database. < 1278211690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: many SQL databases are vaguely type-safe < 1278211697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could probably be made more so without major issues < 1278211698 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but not in the good kind of way. < 1278211705 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a DB monad < 1278212252 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what power does recursive descent have? i forget < 1278212256 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really have lookahead < 1278212258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without, say, ungetc < 1278212263 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's... R(1), if that even makes sense? < 1278212286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which method is recursive descent, again? < 1278212296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one element in the syntax tree becomes a procedure < 1278212300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := 'a' y 'b' becomes < 1278212307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x() { char('a'); y(); char('b') } < 1278212318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be something(0) in that case < 1278212323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly LL(0) < 1278212332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember exactly how the naming scheme works < 1278212335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1278212336 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_descent_parser < 1278212337 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LL(k) < 1278212349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, ofc, i elided the accept stuff < 1278212445 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278212532 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like recursive descent < 1278212543 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278212550 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i think you can make an LL(infinity) recursive descent < 1278212560 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if input is an array, just have accepting(symbol, n) < 1278212564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n = 0 produces current symbol < 1278212653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278212805 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an a^nb^nc^n parser in C is oddly ugly < 1278212941 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define Ntimes(c) while (*s++ == c) i++; if (i != n) return 0; i = 0 < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i = 0, n = 1; < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (*s++ != 'a') return 0; < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*s++ == 'a') n++; < 1278213032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ntimes('b'); < 1278213034 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ntimes('c'); < 1278213036 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 1; < 1278213038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278213040 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best i have so far < 1278213042 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda ugly really < 1278213182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, insane idea: post-emptive multitasking < 1278213197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs the two programs, *then* decides the best times to switch < 1278213204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwhat? < 1278213223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: brilliant < 1278213251 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, this would somehow take place retroactively < 1278213289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, a use for TARDIS in Befunge. < 1278213295 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could perhaps implement this by somehow "speculating" on how the program is going to run, and deciding based on that; then, if it turns out you chose wrong, try and multitask 'the opposite way' to correct for your errors (i.e. if a process was neglected, give it disproportionate time) -- and update your prediction values accordingly < 1278213300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *TRDS < 1278213310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1278213329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time and Relative Dimension in Space, not Time And Relative Dimension In Space. < 1278213332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278213821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is getting a C# book for free soonish < 1278213898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I have to do is tutor someone and make more money < 1278213928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count as free < 1278214079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, you can't tutor someone -- nothing personal, it's just that very few people can teach effectively. < 1278214084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, why the fuck do you want such a book? < 1278214087 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three, yeah, that's not free. < 1278214164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No money is leaving my hands < 1278214203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a stupid definition of free, then < 1278214215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If $10/h really does balance out with what my time is worth (I'm bad at knowing how much money is worth) then yes, the book is free < 1278214246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be pretty young for an hour's work to only be worth $10, if the work's on someone else's terms rather than yours < 1278214394 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your time is only worth $10/h if you're retarded < 1278214412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1278214424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does being clueless with money count as "retarded"? < 1278214427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1278214669 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278214766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278214777 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278214790 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1278214859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to dd into a filter and then into dd for the same file? < 1278214899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hot in here... < 1278214905 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't think so. < 1278214915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last dd process will start immediately and open the file in write mode, erasing it. < 1278214931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this apply to a device? < 1278214981 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278215055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: probably not < 1278215059 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well < 1278215063 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: streaming device or block device? < 1278215066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno the correct terms < 1278215067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1278215075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :block < 1278215083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other one is character btw) < 1278215091 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i... wouldn't risk it, tbh. < 1278215097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it with a floppy device or something :P < 1278215127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have backups, and the whole point would be to prevent idiot support agents from having access to my files while still making it relatively quick for me to undo < 1278215209 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idiot support agents? < 1278215236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, guys fixing my computer < 1278215447 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have such guys? < 1278215493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warranty < 1278215522 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "oops I hit my computer will you fix it pls" kind) < 1278215526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+with a hammer < 1278215624 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well ... don't hit it < 1278215941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have to hit this computer occasionally to stop it overheating < 1278215952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took a while to figure out where to hit it to stop the fan getting stuck < 1278215991 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn.... 4am < 1278215995 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when did you wake up? < 1278216466 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278216554 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omfg, esolang mailing list activity < 1278216595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that existed < 1278216598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and am not subscribed) < 1278216661 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caller: comex < 1278216661 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judge: Wooble < 1278216663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can only go well < 1278216684 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278216700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: heh < 1278216705 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278216722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in B, I just judged that a scam that I myself had tried to take advantage of (better than the original scamster) worked < 1278216726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if people will appeal? < 1278216800 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278216846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would $you write an a^nb^nc^n parser in C? < 1278216866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to shortcircuit? < 1278216868 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. f(s) iff s = "a"^n "b"^n "c"^n [anything] < 1278216875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just that specification above < 1278216877 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only concern is elegance < 1278216879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simplicity < 1278216880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest way would probably be to count as, count bs, count cs, compare < 1278216888 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1278216897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simplest way to count a particular letter is just to read until you get a different letter, then ungetc it < 1278216901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ungetc was invented for that purpose < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i,j,k; < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; *s++ == 'a'; i++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(j=0; *s++ == 'b'; j++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(k=0; *s++ == 'c'; k++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return i==j && j==k; < 1278216934 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278216936 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on a string. < 1278216945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this accepts the empty string though with junk after it < 1278216947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really kosher < 1278216950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say it has to check end of string < 1278216962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just check for \0 after the comparison < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i,j,k; < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; *s++ == 'a'; i++); < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(j=0; *s++ == 'b'; j++); < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(k=0; *s++ == 'c'; k++); < 1278216972 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s && i==j && j==k; < 1278216974 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278216975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, return i==j && j==k && !*s < 1278216980 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278217069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More "abstract" version: < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int n[3], i; < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; i<3; i++) < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while(*s++ == "abc"[i]) n[i]++; < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s && n[0]==n[1] && n[1]==n[2]; < 1278217072 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278217074 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less clear, though. < 1278217215 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok then, here's something tricker: a parser that parses (a_0)^n (a_1)^(n+1) (a_2)^(n+2) ... (a_i)^(n+i) for a fixed alphabet a of size i, and arbitrary n. < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int decralph(char *s, char *a, int sz) { < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int n[sz], i; < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; i0 && n[i]!=n[i-1]+1) { free(n); return 0; } < 1278217539 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1278217541 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : free(n); < 1278217543 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s; < 1278217545 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278217577 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1278217615 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the nice thing about recursive descent is that you can include little ultra-powerful parsers like that as part of it < 1278217618 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they have a recognisable start < 1278217634 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e., you never get aabc being valid but different from aabbcc) < 1278217745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love recursive decent. < 1278217752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Descent. < 1278217820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of parser you end up writing without ever having heard of just because they are that intuitive. < 1278217905 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278218003 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278218041 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no! Recursive ASCENT! < 1278218049 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the most hideously stupid parser ever-- and therefore, our favourite! < 1278218050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: o.O < 1278218061 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually invented BEFORE descent. < 1278218075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely bogoparse is the most hideously stupid parser ever? < 1278218077 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not under that name, of course. < 1278218078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ned Irons preceded our invention with a Recursive Ascent technique that starts off by < 1278218078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling the primary routine, which makes the assumption that it should call the expression < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :routine, which makes the assumption that it must be in an assignment statement and calls < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that routine. Obviously, expressions appear in places other than assignment statements. So < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his technique makes mistakes. It recovers from the mistakes by leaving tracks that allow it < 1278218080 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find its was back to where the erroneous assumption was made. It then makes another < 1278218081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate random parse-trees, see if they're correct < 1278218082 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess and starts working its way up the syntax chart again. Ned’s technique is obviously < 1278218084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower, does not exercise as tight control, and gives pretty poor error messages. He imple- < 1278218086 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mented his parser on a CDC 1604 at he University Of Princeton in 1960. He was working < 1278218088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a group from the University Of Pennsylvania. < 1278218093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's not so different from recursive ascent < 1278218095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... And... That... And? < 1278218122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds freaking awful. < 1278218134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An expression? I hear those appear in assignments! Let's go with that." < 1278218158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot fathom accidentally reinventing one of those. < 1278218172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written parsers and realised after the fact that they were recursive descent. < 1278218193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL's parser is now so complex that CLC doesn't have a clue what the operator precedence and associativity is < 1278218197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even if it's consistent < 1278218198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they just seem freaking natural for anything that's got clean BNF. < 1278218238 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: once, the CLC parser proved a false statement < 1278218243 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody noticed, as it seemed like normal output < 1278218260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: its output is ICBM bytecode < 1278218275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you were making a joke on "consistent" < 1278218280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I did an AnMaster and missed it < 1278218312 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if it actually outputted a proof that the given text must parse to a certain parse tree :) < 1278218314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the CLC in CLC-INTERCAL mean? < 1278218323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's the initials of the primary author < 1278218327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1278218352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't a predictive recursive descent parser parse an ambiguous grammar? < 1278218356 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever "Lemniscate" Caviar < 1278218364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if it guesses wrong, it doesn't know what to do next < 1278218371 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why can't your MOTHER parse an ambiguous grammer?? < 1278218393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1278218399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm, being an idiot today < 1278218423 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h239.13.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278218453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, typesettery. I was considering having the 'final stage' before actually putting pixels to paper be, basically, nested lists containing sets. < 1278218454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To explain: < 1278218463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no nested lists. < 1278218466 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sets at certain points. < 1278218473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, this isn't yet another total preorder is it/ < 1278218478 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we say that at point (3,4) -- for some abstract coordinate system -- < 1278218488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things have come up twice in a month at work, despite being generally unused < 1278218495 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have the foop (a (12 pt) bold) < 1278218498 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as < 1278218503 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((pt 12) a bold) < 1278218506 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1278218512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have nested sets here < 1278218524 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, when this is actually rendered, we ask the character set for a character matching these attributes < 1278218536 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a, so it looks up the a character, then it looks for the bold variant, then it renders it at 12pt < 1278218540 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the pixels returned < 1278218548 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, these coordinates can overlap, because of kerning etc. < 1278218552 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is okay, because of transparent backgrounds < 1278218577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw <3 Parsec < 1278218578 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like borders would be big box characters around the stuff, i think < 1278218588 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and images would be e.g. (image 234988eu98234-uniqueid) < 1278218595 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (thumbs up) < 1278218730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It is awesomeness. < 1278218889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is basically the way parsing was meant to be done < 1278218902 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or IS it... dun dun DUNNNN < 1278218935 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGs huh, i hear pegs are good, pirates have pegs fuckshitting pegs pirates yeaaah it's almost 5am. < 1278218939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING PIRATESHITTING PEGS! < 1278218941 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, moving on < 1278218946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I'm pretty sure that when the gods crafted the Universe, they said "Well, we'll have to include parsing" "Oh, man, that sucks" "Well, we could make sure they get Parsec" "Sounds good" < 1278218947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any parsing expression grammar can be converted directly into a recursive descent parser[citation needed]. < 1278218952 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're like quite as awesome < 1278218953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1278218959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice is basically the same word as quite ithink < 1278218964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a t there, thjat should be a c < 1278218967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but u is basically w < 1278218974 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody gievs a fuck about q, so we can just replace that with t < 1278218977 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we get quite = twice < 1278219039 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, um... when did you last sleep? I set my sleep clock on other people's. < 1278219052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: woke up at about 5pm yesterday < 1278219060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep clock is not a good one to set to, though < 1278219064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last went to sleep 18 hours ago < 1278219066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, i woke up at 10am this morning :) < 1278219074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep is not a good one to set to if you're in the UK < 1278219078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10am this morning hasn't happened yet, at least if you're in the UK < 1278219090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION woke up at 10am as well < 1278219093 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up i'm too tired to think so fuck that shit < 1278219101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it's like 7pm there in "MILD COUNTRY " < 1278219105 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278219114 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U S A , land of the mild < 1278219147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Try 11PM. < 1278219151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1278219172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, mild country? < 1278219175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 "mild" pm, the "mildest " of hours < 1278219195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: backup < 1278219201 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278219211 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mascot thourselfs towaqrds my untodistablishabilityies < 1278219214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. It's 7 in Hawaii-Aleutian time? < 1278219215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION arbitrarily decides that alise_ is mild < 1278219221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FUCKING HAWAII < 1278219225 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... just < 1278219227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING HAWAII < 1278219385 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAIWAN WOW < 1278219622 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man this is painful < 1278219668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :台湾? < 1278219697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves polyglot sentences < 1278219710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: polyglot between which langs? < 1278219737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Japanese, all Sinitic languages, (atypically-written) Korean, (atypically-written) Vietnamese. < 1278219752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's right. An entire language branch. < 1278219753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278219753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it particularly meaningful in all of them? < 1278219759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same meaning. < 1278219764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taiwan?" < 1278219771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``TAIWAN``'' < 1278219788 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278219796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a sort of pointless polyglot, then < 1278219802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like the null quine < 1278219807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easiest with proper nouns, yes. < 1278219824 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL NOUNS < 1278219832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if there are any spoken Mandarin/Cantonese polyglots < 1278219848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278219857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many, mind. < 1278219861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably, meaning a different thing in each lang < 1278219873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, different meanings in each? Trivial. < 1278219889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both syllable/tonal structured, and there's overlapping syllables and tones. < 1278219893 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SP[Æ]KING THE ShĂ­shì shÄ«shì ShÄ« Shì, shì shÄ«, shì shĂ­ shĂ­ shÄ«. < 1278219894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1278219908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you could make it a question in one lang, and its answer in another < 1278219909 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOULD BE THE SPOKING OF THE WORDS ENVISIONED -- INSIDE THIS -- pikhq -- THOU HA'STEST A LINGUISTIC SYSTEM < 1278219912 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THE TRANSCRIBING OF KANJI < 1278219921 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY IT TO THIS POE~TRY, LION - EATING POET IN STONE DEN, THE < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 《施氏食獅史》 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室詩士施氏,嗜獅,誓食ĺŤçŤ…。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 氏時時é©ĺ¸‚視獅。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ĺŤć™‚,é©ĺŤçŤ…é©ĺ¸‚。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ćŻć™‚,é©ć–˝ć°Źé©ĺ¸‚。 < 1278219929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 氏視ćŻĺŤçŤ…,ć矢勢,使ćŻĺŤçŤ…逝世。 < 1278219931 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ć°Źć‹ľćŻĺŤçŤ…屍,é©çźłĺ®¤ă€‚ < 1278219933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室濕,氏使侍拭石室。 < 1278219935 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室拭,氏始試食ćŻĺŤçŤ…。 < 1278219937 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 食時,始č­ćŻĺŤçŤ…,實ĺŤçźłçŤ…屍。 < 1278219939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 試釋ćŻäş‹ă€‚ < 1278219960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can kinda-sorta understand that. < 1278219962 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT REALLY KANJI BEING CHINESE I GUESS BUT WHO CARES < 1278219977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really freaking weird-looking, mind, but. < 1278220002 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS ROMANISED IN "SHI"S < 1278220004 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW ROMANISE IT < 1278220005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: "Kanji" is more literally translated as "Chinese characters". Or even more literally translated as "Han dynasty characters". < 1278220018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of those characters have Japanese readings. < 1278220028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try though. < 1278220069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. The few that don't have reading indicators. I can cheat! < 1278220158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ishishittsujishishishi, shishi, shishokujyuushi. Shijijitekishikanshi. Shiji, tekijyuushitekishi. Saiji, tekishishitekishi. Shikansaijyuushi, jishitsudou, bensaijyuushishise. Shikaisaijyuushishin, tekiishishitsu. < 1278220165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's about where I'm going to give up. < 1278220177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Excuse me? That is not entirely "shi". < 1278220182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that is not in your romanisation scheme. < 1278220187 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours had xs in, or something. < 1278220192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1278220354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isisitus`isisisi, sisi, sisixyoku`ixyuusi. Siz`iz`itekisikannshi. Sis`i, tekis`ixyuusitekisi. Sais`i, tekisisitekisi. Sikansais`ixyuusi, s`isitut`ou, h`ennsais`ixyuusisise. Sikaisais`ixyuusisinn, tekiisisitu. < 1278220415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that is where I stop being able to give or reasonably guess at readings. < 1278220477 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :321654165456465465 need to sleep < 1278220798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell if I've been a victim of C# poisoning? < 1278220832 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like c# < 1278220846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a nice language.. < 1278220857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: C# is a massive improvement over all the other standard Windows application development languages < 1278220860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why people like it < 1278220882 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: poisoned < 1278220890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's also shit < 1278220925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is worse, Python is not statically typed, Java is worse < 1278220925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I don't know it well enough to know what bad points it has < 1278220943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so bad about it? I'm curious, and would like ammo to use against C#-loving types < 1278220968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not really application-level, especially for security-requiring stuff. Too easy to write unsafe code. < 1278221030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the thing I dislike most about C# is it reminds me a bit of MAGENTA < 1278221047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many different ways to do things, that please different subsets of programmers, not for any particularly good reason < 1278221066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278221070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night alise_ < 1278221467 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278221494 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278222179 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278222448 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278222462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a C# is fine too. < 1278222473 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like. It's basically what Java should be. < 1278222473 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278222515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... it always pissed me off that methods weren't first-class in Java < 1278222548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in C# there's multicast delegates. It already saves you a shit ton of work when doing something event-driven. < 1278222584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are in Java 1.7 < 1278222589 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it's bad points are essentially the same as Java < 1278222590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-class methods, that is < 1278222604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh really? Hmmm, okay. I assume it works differently from delegates based on your wording. < 1278222622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you use # rather than . when referencing a method < 1278222629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get what's basically a function pointer < 1278222634 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... eh. < 1278222639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it typesafe? < 1278222643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you could do it anyway making an anon class, and people did all the time, but that's stupidly wordy < 1278222655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd guess it's typesafe at compile time but not run time, the way type erasure normally works < 1278222661 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very stpidly. It's cumkbersome when it should be easy. < 1278222673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stupidly < 1278222693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly getting first-class methods won't help when most Java APIs expect classes.. < 1278222700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1278222737 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delegates are probably my favorite thing about C#. It's the thing that makes it stand out when compared to Java. < 1278222778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to go overboard, though < 1278222788 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well yes. < 1278222789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently wrote a function with 3 nested anonymous delegates. < 1278222799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately every language design isn't Guido < 1278222811 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we'd be trying to prevent everything that allows mistake. < 1278222816 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failing miserably. < 1278222826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *language designer < 1278222832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to pay more attention to what I type. :P < 1278222903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have so many crazy and conflicting language ideas... I don't think I could ever unify them. < 1278222907 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278222928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy and conflicting, like ABCDEF? < 1278222934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sins by abbreviating it < 1278222947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm considering how one would merge concepts from Elephant with functional and OO paradigms. < 1278222952 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no clue what that is... < 1278222967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly functional. I'd pick functional over OO I think. < 1278222998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially logic programming mixed with functional < 1278223022 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have an implicit history (possibly via monad?) that can be referred to and manipulated via temporal logic. < 1278223045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory < 1278223051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1278223070 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no not quite. < 1278223082 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1278223117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other language ideas I want to develop involve manipulation and definition of syntax... in a sane way. I suppose like Lisp macros but in a more syntatically diverse setting. < 1278223174 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of envison it like defining a custom parser in Parsec, that interprets the language for the syntax element in question. < 1278223551 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...though, I don't know < 1278223553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be too much. < 1278223576 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just easier to have macro operators. Combinations of operators. < 1278223702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: someone should actually run a ABCDEF < 1278223715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it was, once < 1278223723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just never wrote a spec for the resulting language < 1278223727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody did the actual compilation into a language < 1278224114 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278224299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278224534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adores the Meiryo font now < 1278225170 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278225288 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot wait for tomorrow night (technically today's night, since it's past midnight now) < 1278225337 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the kid I was talking about as being a co-worker? < 1278225343 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of sorts? < 1278225346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American Independence Day celebration... with terrible cheap vodka and pot brownies < 1278225351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ...no < 1278225619 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wondering what I should mix this vodka with though. It's /bad/... it cannot be drank neat. < 1278225642 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_on_the_beach_(cocktail) < 1278225657 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would rather have real sex < 1278225683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ha. well of course. < 1278225697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we are cheap bastards < 1278225699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything we make < 1278225703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will not be those ingredients exactly. < 1278225713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be like, orange soda and peach-cranberry juice. < 1278225734 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278225835 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278226220 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: okay... so < 1278226241 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got $6 US and a $12 handle of vodka. What mixers should I purchase? < 1278226267 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His computer was taken away, apparently because his parents thought that they needed it more than he does < 1278226278 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn. < 1278226286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was for the virtual world thing right? < 1278226297 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1278226316 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, taking a computer away from a kid programmer has got to be the most obnoxious.. < 1278226344 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1278226362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278226364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: how old are you? < 1278226377 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize until recently how many very young people inhabit this channel. < 1278226380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 21. The kid is around 15 < 1278226393 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 18. 19 in a few weeks. < 1278226934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm salty dog / greyhound = vodka + grapefruit juice < 1278226935 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278226936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is convenient < 1278226947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I already have some grapefruit juice. < 1278227005 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278227180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yorsh (Russian: Ń‘Ń€Ń) is a Russian drink consisting simply of beer thoroughly mixed with an ample quantity of vodka. < 1278227186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....why would you ever do that. < 1278227214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preparation: mix thoroughly and drink quickly! < 1278227217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet. < 1278228104 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278228200 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229304 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278229400 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229603 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278229608 0 :Adrian^L!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229874 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, annoying < 1278229949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) I have two partitions on my computer doing nothing. I would be more worried if that wasn't what most of the rest of my disk space was also doing < 1278229950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) my backup disk is refusing to be bootable < 1278230130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably sleep soon < 1278230399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278230400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278230505 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278230600 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278231705 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278231803 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278231826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads Reddit discuss Lotus Notes < 1278231845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone suggested to get a similar effect, you should try compiling Firefox's source with ghc without porting it to Haskell first < 1278231937 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar effect to what? < 1278231981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er... lots of syntax errors? < 1278231984 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278231992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Lotus Notes < 1278231995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have no idea < 1278232003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it must be bad if someone even /suggested/ that analogy < 1278232032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278232051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just enable -CompileFirefoxSource extension in GHC < 1278232056 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much standard Haskell at this point < 1278232082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1278232106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closely related is EnableSkynet < 1278232115 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's fairly undocumented. < 1278232238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copyright 200X ACM X-XXXXX-XX-X/XX/XX ...$10.00." < 1278232251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangest copyright notice I've ever seen, although admittedly it was on a draft paper < 1278232510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1278232524 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright 2XXX < 1278232532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by _______ ________ < 1278232558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know anything about mixed drinks by chance? < 1278232579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; I don't drink alcohol < 1278232599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well nevermind. :D < 1278232905 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278233000 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278233550 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278233954 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278234104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here? < 1278234282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278235065 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278235160 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278236265 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278236358 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278236442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION randomly comes across a compile-time FizzBuzz in C++ < 1278236444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/fizzbuzz.htm < 1278236639 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237292 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237464 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278237563 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1278238337 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278238343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278238406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah, my backup is working < 1278238664 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278238763 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278239029 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278239227 0 :ski!~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278239430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: testing bootability < 1278239694 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278239959 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278240163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack.petricek.net/ :-) < 1278241065 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278241160 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278242265 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278242363 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278242824 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278243465 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278243565 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278244665 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278244759 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278245034 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278246578 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246721 0 :tulcod!~auke@a83-163-69-73.adsl.xs4all.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246751 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are there any languages for which it isn't intuitively clear that they're turing-complete? < 1278246794 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can always sense it < 1278246837 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all languages i've seen so far are pretty obvious < 1278246846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you seen < 1278246859 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1278246866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know . < 1278246876 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the brainf*ck languages and stuff < 1278246881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ACTA has now been declared a trade agreement thereby bypassing the congress." < 1278246881 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply weird syntax for assembly < 1278246888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: we have far more shit < 1278246894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload < 1278246898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda < 1278246900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toi < 1278246905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's langs < 1278246905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check toi first < 1278246910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1278246917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal with extensions < 1278246934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT < 1278246940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1278246967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those except toi are pretty obvious tho, so maybe you should check out toi?!? < 1278246984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm bct < 1278246988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so humble < 1278246994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1278247000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: point is they're more interesting than bf < 1278247031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for tcness < 1278247037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes but compared to toi... yeah i'll shut up < 1278247044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah tcness < 1278247047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: yes, you can easily make a language tc iff goldbach conjecture < 1278247048 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm, just looking at underload, that's far better than whitespace and all that wikipedian crap :) < 1278247049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget how < 1278247052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was at least partially being useful < 1278247064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace is a syntax language, yes < 1278247068 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1278247068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: we're the snob part of the esolang guys :P < 1278247093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1278247112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 102% of languages < 1278247123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2% that's both is my languages, there's just a few of them but i counted them multiple times because they're awesome. < 1278247143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did i get this humble i wonder < 1278247163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: some of the absolute best languages come from cpressey. classics like befunge but also very abstract, unknown-tc langs < 1278247170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did like graphica's syntax, but admittedly toi has the worst syntax ever < 1278247182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Chris_Pressey; < 1278247184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about cpressey's work outside bf < 1278247187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: < 1278247197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cpressey didn't do bf he did befunge :P < 1278247201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah i know < 1278247207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.b) < 1278247212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but sry) < 1278247220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: http://catseye.tc/cpressey/lingography.html his languages < 1278247229 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1278247235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: further you go down, much more interesting and CSy they get < 1278247241 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. burro where the set of burro programs is a group < 1278247259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh smetana was his < 1278247279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1278247279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okapi is a language I designed for my wife for our sixth anniversary. Its only means of control flow is throwing exceptions, and as if this wasn't enough, there are two restrictions on exceptions that are thrown — they must be divide-by-zero exceptions, and they must be caught in a lexically enclosing block. Nor is there any facility to "retry" after an exception is caught. The language is nonetheless Turing-complete." < 1278247293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great anniversary present or best anniversary present? < 1278247309 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sounds great :D < 1278247342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUBE is a classic by him < 1278247354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering what the message of making an error-based language is < 1278247389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMITH (2000) < 1278247389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-modifying assembly-like language which completely lacks any kind of jump instructions whatsoever. < 1278247396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noit o' mnain worb (2000) < 1278247396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A neat little toy automaton that uses pressure between randomly moving particles to approximate the behaviour of circuits. < 1278247404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worb is his too?!? < 1278247409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1278247414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ur cool < 1278247424 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're my new idol, oerjan is out < 1278247438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emmental (2007) < 1278247438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-modifying language; the language is defined in terms of a meta-circular interpreter, and this meta-circular interpreter provides an operation that redefines operations of the meta-circular interpreter. In fact, this mechanism is required for Emmental to be Turing-complete. < 1278247441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could go on < 1278247447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i won't :P < 1278247454 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you guys dedicated to this? is there any external interest in all this or is the esolang group just for the lols? < 1278247466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: well there are applications in CS < 1278247478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aiming for a career in research in computability < 1278247484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our ais523 won the wolfram prize by inventing what is basically a deliberately sub-TC esolang tag system < 1278247487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1278247514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wouldn't say many of us are all that dedicated :-P < 1278247517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: and his day job requires a lot of esolangy stuff < 1278247529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of us just do this for fun and interestingness, though < 1278247534 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more esolangy than fortran and basic? < 1278247546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more esolangy than haskell < 1278247549 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"idealised concurrent algol", mathematical model < 1278247560 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kinda work would that be? :) < 1278247568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno exactly, ask him :P < 1278247576 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you on? < 1278247600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes could you tell us where you get your ideas < 1278247616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everything i say look sarcastic < 1278247624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm TOO sincere < 1278247675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: wouter has cool stuff if you can handle his gigantic language list: http://strlen.com/proglang/index.html < 1278247687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight: http://strlen.com/aardappel/index.html < 1278247710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also did false but that's basically brainfuck on a stack < 1278247728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1278247728 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1278247749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy k is pretty cool < 1278247754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: malbolge too < 1278247763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took a computer search to find the first hello world < 1278247766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was /cryptanalysed/ < 1278247779 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub-tc but only for memory limitations < 1278247788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false is brainfuck on a stack? i'm not sure i agree 100%, but maybe i remember it wrong... < 1278247792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278247801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://esolangs.org/wiki/FALSE close enough < 1278247804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess if you interpret it freely enough < 1278247815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just more capable < 1278247820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with arithmetic and shit < 1278247824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's less esoteric :P < 1278247845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: btw brainfuck's goal was tiny compiler, not extreme abstract interest < 1278247861 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well alright < 1278247868 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying the guys who designed it are stupid < 1278247873 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not extremely interesting < 1278247919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, if you ever want to see what over-engineering is, compare: < 1278247922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-93 http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/doc/website_befunge93.html < 1278247928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-98 http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html < 1278247931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is based on a computational model called P'' whose point was to prove you can be tc without loops < 1278247942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278247952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no without goto < 1278247952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know for a fact it is based on this, but it's the same thing < 1278247957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1278247961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"typo" < 1278247976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was gonna write with loops, but it's the omission that's important so well yeah asd) < 1278248023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, that surely was interesting back then. < 1278248228 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-24-118.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278248512 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278249644 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278249747 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278250845 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278250912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rayikromtmrokt < 1278250945 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278251242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI New version of Photoshop CS5 includes hyper-intelligent gnomes that can do anything. < 1278251326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that + http://vimeo.com/6496886 = gnome child labour < 1278251476 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278251484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.skitch.com/20091005-q5jx8gdg2j11ubrhap4fpfe8mp.jpg < 1278251490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raptor, raptor, raptor, screaming man, endless void of space. < 1278251556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also seam carving < 1278251557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gnomes too < 1278251625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're taking the term "magic wand" a bit too literally < 1278252027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CSI] < 1278252031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ZN3b9.jpg "Oh no, the image is cropped!" < 1278252034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's okay! Just press undo! < 1278252035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1278252039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Synthesising...] < 1278252040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/AqTcE.jpg < 1278252044 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278252050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n"/"/ < 1278252090 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278252115 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278252587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI <<< looks like someone finally made a program that isn't completely retarded < 1278252648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting to know how special-cased that is for real-life objects < 1278252663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the samples :-)) < 1278252750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there's a quite old plugin for gimp that does the same thing quite well < 1278252758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine it'd have an easier time with abstract shit < 1278252760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less crap to copy < 1278252767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic technique appears to be "given a texture, make more of that texture" < 1278252773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's awesome about http://i.imgur.com/AqTcE.jpg is that it looks really natural, but actually the bottom makes absolutely no sense < 1278252775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably with some tweaks to mirror e.g. the balance of elements in the texture < 1278252786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh god you're right < 1278252790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, looking at the bottom is so disturbing < 1278252796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... fractal and... evil < 1278252800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1278252802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1278252812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, i'm pretty sure there's plant / zoomed out grass hybrids in there < 1278252818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just sick < 1278252821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shivers < 1278252828 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: though, admit you need to know it's computerized to see it < 1278252838 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very convincing otherwise < 1278252846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it looks like there's some sort of portal to another forest < 1278252858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: you need to look at the bottom to see it, yes < 1278252870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, it looks very natural if it's in the corner of the eye < 1278252895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if i looked at that dark patch in the bottom and then to the left i'd notice shit was up < 1278252901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plants are not furry like that < 1278252902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuurgh < 1278252908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please obliterate this feature < 1278252910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once you look at the bottom, you can tell by some of the pixels that there's a fucking portal to another forest. < 1278252922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey you're right, that dark spot looks like the trees in another forest < 1278252935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think that's incredible < 1278252936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plants around it get spatially distorted due to, you know, portal physics < 1278252942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you went through the portal you'd be huge < 1278252943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278252945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look how tiny the tree is < 1278252949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1278252977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portal physics is the very scientific principle whereby portals do crazy shit < 1278252979 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; anyway i seriously want to hear how these algorithms work, but i presume i'd have to join the team < 1278253040 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer < 1278253044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp plugin < 1278253045 0 :nooga!~nooga@aij81.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phd thesis detailing the algorithm < 1278253048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy < 1278253053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that creepy forest was done with resynthesiser) < 1278253062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a hunch photoshop would produce something slightly less creepy) < 1278253062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was not photoshop < 1278253068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but < 1278253070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same algo basically < 1278253070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well judging by the youtube vid < 1278253077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives almost identical results for most of the pics < 1278253080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know it's the same algo < 1278253080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess forests are just pathological :P < 1278253088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cuz the results are almost identical basically < 1278253092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the internet says it's the same < 1278253099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has like the same tools < 1278253119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just read the thesis, that's the creepy forest algo, the important portal one < 1278253124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :results are almost identical, what are you basing this on? < 1278253134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at those examples, or more < 1278253137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who did the panorama and desert thing, want me to find links? < 1278253173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no need i guess < 1278253194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will anyway because i'm awesome. < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you've seen http://vimeo.com/6496886 right? and the image resizing seam carving stuff? < 1278253215 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278253227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about synthesising a picture, removing some trees, then seam carving it < 1278253239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought-out photography is so last century < 1278253253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'll bet it can uncrop a stock chart and predict the markets!" < 1278253276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked to http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/people/efros/research/NPS/efros-iccv99.pdf < 1278253280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is completely real. In fact, the technology has been in development since 1999. (pdf warning)" < 1278253298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: using an obviously lower-quality screenshot of the panorama from the video: < 1278253302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/0yKBG.jpg < 1278253302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/e25kG.jpg < 1278253309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the problem is, like you said, that forests are a bit pathological, because you have small plants near, and big trees far, so they look roughly the same; so plants happen to get interpreted as trees, because the algo doesn't think in 3d < 1278253316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing objects: < 1278253319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/4A4ral.jpg < 1278253319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/fEbazl.jpg < 1278253323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that example isn't so hard < 1278253330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the grass is a bit dodgy around the removed area < 1278253355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's just that seeing furry grass-tree-plants makes me get scared that all matter is suddenly going to go slightly furry at the edges < 1278253362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how my brain responds to the visual information < 1278253367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh GOD fuzz apocalypse imminent" < 1278253372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1278253386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to wonder what would happen if reality's texture system broke and i got mapped on to a couch < 1278253388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1278253391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like 7 < 1278253404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got pretty scared about it < 1278253530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me an even number between 50 and 100 that doesn't repeat a digit < 1278253614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not falling for that < 1278253615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck at the sketch thing < 1278253619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling for it? < 1278253619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78 < 1278253623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw it in the logs :p < 1278253626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1278253629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1278253632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1278253632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently everyone picks 68 < 1278253636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh a few days ago < 1278253647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked to a shitty mind control blog mentioning it, after it worked on... maybe you < 1278253653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try and find < 1278253661 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm, maybe i got the link from here then, i thought i was googling for something else < 1278253672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no i doubt i would've chosen 68 < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:58:16 quick i need a someone to pick a *even* number between 50 and 100 that has two different digits! < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:04 68 < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:29 interesting < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:35 thank you < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:40 hm? < 1278253674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:41 --- part: ghostwriter42 left #esoteric < 1278253676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:47 --- join: ghostwriter42 (~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42) joined #esoteric < 1278253678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:59 Is 68 a common response or something? < 1278253680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:29 http://mindcontrol101.blogspot.com/ read the paragraph that says "pick a number" < 1278253682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:17 ... < 1278253683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1/2 of my test subjects have said 68 < 1278253684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:27 i guess you win < 1278253686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.07.01 < 1278253688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah i guess you wouldn't, but you aren't human < 1278253699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why 68 < 1278253726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have one constraint on the pair that's completely symmetric in some sense, and a constraint on the latter digit < 1278253731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously i would choose the latter one first < 1278253742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might take an easy one like 2 < 1278253748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i could choose any number for the first one < 1278253767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68 is the first possible choice ofc, realizing that i don't think it's all that interesting < 1278253822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" wonder why 68" <<< ^ < 1278253837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay pick a card please < 1278253865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 of ... jacks < 1278253869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that isn't a suit is it < 1278253869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278253873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 of spades < 1278253876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not completely < 1278253881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1278253887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work when your target knows what you're doing < 1278253905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing a very partial disproof of these things working. < 1278253918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, that thesis is 60 megabytes < 1278253921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO I'M GOING TO TRY TO TRICK YOU INTO SAYING WHAT PEOPLE USUALLY SAY < 1278253925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering why net was so slow < 1278253930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW PICK A CARD < 1278253935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REFUSE < 1278253982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:07:19 heh, just saw a bogus proof on Slashdot that the last digit of pi was 5 < 1278253983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show? < 1278254101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to search for more of these because i'd like to try one on myself < 1278254111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the link for http://www.indianchild.com/number_trick.htm gives the answer away on google < 1278254113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278254123 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278254136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hypnotise yourself dude < 1278254138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhh :P < 1278254143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can < 1278254161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While not absolutely everybody picks "3", most people do." <-- oh i thought it meant pick an /arbitrary/ number, i picked 72 < 1278254164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was joking. < 1278254171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact, these tricks aren't hypnosis < 1278254171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1278254181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should have picked a real < 1278254181 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278254187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you pick 3? < 1278254188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think they probably meant natural even if they meant arbitrary < 1278254192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no picked 72 < 1278254195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no i < 1278254198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol :D < 1278254221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you thought 1 2 3 4 was like a countdown to seeing how controllable you are < 1278254232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278254236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was gonna be like < 1278254238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"did you pick FIVE???" < 1278254263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when i scrolled down I was like "what how does 1, 2, 3, 4 make people think the next entry should be '3'" < 1278254285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278254328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL ACTUALLY I HERD THERES A POLYNOMIAL THAT IS THE SEQUENCE 1 2 3 4 3 < 1278254344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's asstonishing < 1278254351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ass-tonishing < 1278254357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just tonishing my ass < 1278254362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just lagrance it up you'd understand if you knew maths < 1278254377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess you don't.................. < 1278254379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fragrance it up < 1278254403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey did you read about my fart language btw < 1278254407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you think it was awesome < 1278254410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, is it farty? < 1278254422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a bf derivative but even funnier < 1278254430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's like bf but < 1278254436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh is it wav files < 1278254438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically < 1278254441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it detects fart noises < 1278254447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses the duration and pitch to pick a command? < 1278254455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so congratulations you are a genius < 1278254456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i thought of that but fizzie refused to do the sound stuff for me :( < 1278254469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a fascist < 1278254472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but input is still in farts < 1278254472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill him < 1278254477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output too < 1278254499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i removed nestor loops because they are too complecited for me... < 1278254504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION farts < 1278254505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278254511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think you need loops if you just have if < 1278254518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can just repaet the code multiple times instead of looping < 1278254521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really you just need if < 1278254523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be tc < 1278254530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2d movement, that is also tc < 1278254538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes i also changed the for ... until loops of bf into just ifs but i think it's the same thing really < 1278254540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really tc is irrelevant since we only have finite memory in the universe < 1278254556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't listen to the zealots who say "ohh you need tc" < 1278254563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a purist masturbating thing < 1278254570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really understand tc < 1278254583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't i think it doesn't really mean much in the real world < 1278254586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it like when you can use printers and usb drives and so on < 1278254589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1278254598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your language run or replace windows ?? < 1278254600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cd disquettes < 1278254603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know windows is a language you can type things like "dir" into it < 1278254613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "format c:" which formats your files to look better < 1278254617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i heard on the internet < 1278254637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should make a 3.75d version of your language < 1278254640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isometric 3d < 1278254643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my favourite game < 1278254658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what isometric means < 1278254661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it means illegal < 1278254670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS "IT" < 1278254672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the the the the the the of the < 1278254673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1278254674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278254679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well an isometry is a distance-preserving bijection between two metric spaces < 1278254689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278254693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is a language? < 1278254705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunnolol < 1278254758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was like this all the time, but made really awesome languages < 1278254772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278254774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they'd always have some really stupid design flaws and retarded names for things < 1278254775 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278254787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's that? my language is a turing-complete field? what's that" < 1278254791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ideas behind them would be awesome < 1278254800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1278254801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i just made a bf derivative..." < 1278254810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::----) < 1278254862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my computer suck so much this user interface was designed by a moron or something < 1278254864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all user interfaces < 1278254884 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278254902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe its a filed but the POIT of the langauge is that the loopes are realy hard to write because you have to repeat every charater 40 times in soruce code :D" < 1278254923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typos would be essential < 1278254933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything he'd say would be totally retarded < 1278254964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically asiekierka with a genius mathematician in his subconscious < 1278254992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how all those "fill in data that isn't there for pictures" stuff in shows works! < 1278255005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't < 1278255011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we can instinctively do pretty awesome stuff ... like do differential calculus so fast we can catch a flying ball ... stole that from Dirk Gently < 1278255043 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, in secret, there are surveillance cameras everywhere, constantly taking very high resolution pictures. However, the secret network won't give up those picutures without proof that you had most of the data anyway. < 1278255045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard something about some psychology people saying people do diff calc when they catch balls < 1278255054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: 'most' < 1278255059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought damn they're retarded < 1278255063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also douglas adams, therefore it is true < 1278255065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278255067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: okay, then maybe < 1278255068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a character in a douglas adams novel < 1278255074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly they can be pretty stupid < 1278255108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's dirk gently? < 1278255125 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ignores the succeeding conversation to best avoid spoilers < 1278255171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Svald Cjelli a.k.a. Dirk Gently, of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency < 1278255174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually if i hear a spoiler, i completely forget about it once i start reading/watching said object < 1278255185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278255194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bloody good book < 1278255199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it references prolog which is pretty neat i guess < 1278255216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently there was something like that in a psychology book my friend had to read for schools. a uni course that is < 1278255230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tl;dr dirk gently scams old people with missing cats using bullshit quantum physics < 1278255231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the psychology dep seems really retarded btw < 1278255253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: gura vg gheaf bhg gvzr vf shpxrq hc, naq n znpuvar perngrq fcrpvsvpnyyl gb oryvrir guvatf fb lbh qba'g unir gb sebz nabgure havirefr xvyyf n thl < 1278255256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: do NOT unrot13 that < 1278255259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge spoiler < 1278255262 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... tempting < 1278255266 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I won't. < 1278255591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway it's a good book, even more nerdyish plotpoints than h2g2 and a fun plot < 1278255630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have: < 1278255631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Save. Every edit is saved immediately. Changes to the file by other programs are loaded automatically. < 1278255634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's an interesting feature :P < 1278255636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-a delete < 1278255637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops! < 1278255644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if you use version control religiously < 1278255653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be cool if every change was saved and ctrl+s just did a vcs commit < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * A jump-to-line dialog box. < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * A find dialog box. < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * In fact, does not have any dialog boxes." < 1278255749 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-94.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278255989 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, another app available everywhere except Android < 1278257246 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278257343 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278257464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, ridiculous idea < 1278257473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio compression using lagrange interpolation! < 1278257488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cut out every N samples, and use lagrange interolation to fix it < 1278257490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus stuff < 1278258178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, now i have an urge to write an editor < 1278258222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes this happens. < 1278258465 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278258565 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259143 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION behaves like he has a 200dpi screen < 1278259273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*she < 1278259279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing :D < 1278259545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're my new idol, oerjan is out <-- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1278259648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278259656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey might be temporary, so you should be at your best behavior < 1278259665 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278259673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, too lazy < 1278259762 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259996 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278260012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hinting is weird < 1278260118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your loss! < 1278260198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A well-hinted Japanese font is an awesome thing. < 1278260222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. I spit at hinting. Why don't we have 300 ppi screens? < 1278260236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we wouldn't /need/ hinting. < 1278260241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 ppi? Then we wouldn't need /antialiasing/. < 1278260264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone 4 is 326 ppi, so, you know, just make that bigger. < 1278260335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: failed retrieving file 'ffmpeg-23792-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz' from www.mirrorservice.org : Not Found < 1278260336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278260343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION syncs package dbs < 1278260360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, I am writing an editor! Call me crazy. Please. < 1278260428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're fucking nuts. < 1278260455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why :( < 1278260634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff there are sequels to A Glorious Dawn < 1278260644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my day has been made < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkWindow) < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkInvisible) < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkObject) < 1278260770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up. < 1278260879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want to make something I can use instead of Emacs until I reinvent everything :P < 1278260896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use maybe 5% of Emacs' editing features so I wade through a lot of boilerplate in using it. < 1278260913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I've now become enamoured with the idea that all changes are saved immediately, and Ctrl-S does a *VCS commit*. < 1278261070 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim for the vim < 1278261084 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to make another editor < 1278261093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: My editing style is nothing like vi's. < 1278261104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There /are/ differences between people's editing styles. < 1278261117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are emacsers, some people are viers, some people are acmers, some people are samers, some people are geditors. < 1278261121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an alise-editorer. < 1278261133 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using vi kind of requires that you forget everything you think you know about editing and relearn the vi way < 1278261147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and that way really doesn't sit well with the way i /think/ about code < 1278261179 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, or perhaps you just don't think like that because you're not using an editor like that < 1278261198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used vim for a while. Went through vimtutor and all, sawed off my cursor keys (not really). < 1278261211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy with the way I think about code and edit it. Is there something wrong with a person who doesn't use vim? :) < 1278261235 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is, not using vim for starters < 1278261245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am no longer listening to you :-) < 1278261251 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278261276 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14C61A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278261303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Considering the idea of "cursor key acceleration (a la mouse acceleration)" seriously just popped into my head, pretty sure I'm /not/ a vi user. < 1278261335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you _could_ accelerate all key repeats... < 1278261353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, i don't repeat many keys often though < 1278261354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than cursors < 1278261369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would exasperate the problem of accidental repeats < 1278261384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean far more extreme accel though < 1278261394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just accelerate backspace too >:D < 1278261395 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my basic point is: how happy you are now says nothing about how happy you *could* be after taking time to be proficient in another way of working < 1278261416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it starts out moving one line per N, then in 1/4 seconds is moving up 3 lines per N, then in 1/2 seconds is moving up 5 lines per N, after 1 second 8 lines per N < 1278261425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also backspace, yeah < 1278261431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with characters < 1278261451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have tried a great, great many editors. < 1278261452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your fibonacci is missing a term < 1278261459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I jived more with acme than I did with vim. < 1278261468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wasn't going for fibonacci, but cooool :D < 1278261481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibonacci as natural acceleration < 1278261518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember what (Delta fib(n)) simplifies to < 1278261535 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phi? < 1278261539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-2) < 1278261560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Delta fib(n) = fib(n+1) - fib(n) < 1278261574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) then < 1278261614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's (fib(n) + fib(n-1)) + (fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)) < 1278261633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha says it's fib(n) - fib(n-2), but that's obvious < 1278261646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o what < 1278261652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, or is it < 1278261653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1278261655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so confused < 1278261659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme take this step by step < 1278261660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n+1) - fib(n) = fib(n-1) < 1278261664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduces to < 1278261665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) + 2fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) < 1278261669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduces to < 1278261696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) + 2(fib(n-2) + fib(n-3)) + fib(n-3) + fib(n-4) < 1278261701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but wolfram alpha isn't correlating that < 1278261704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm really confused < 1278261720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) + 3fib(n-2) + 3fib(n-3) + fib(n-4) < 1278261734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you substitute _just_ the fib(n+1) into the recursion. sheesh. < 1278261740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: err right < 1278261766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n+1) - fib(n) = fib(n) + fib(n-1) - fib(n-1) - fib(n-2) < 1278261770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := fib(n) - fib(n-2) < 1278261780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) = fib(n+1) + fib(n-2) < 1278261786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo fib(n) - fib(n-2) = fib(n+1) which is obvious but < 1278261788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't W|A get that? < 1278261857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so we have that fibonacci grows according to fibonacci < 1278261865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would seem to give a nice acceleration ... property < 1278261886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, the finite integral of fib(n) is fib(n+1), that's cool. < 1278261995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/1 1/16 1/8 1/4 1/2 1/1 2/1 4/1 8/1 < 1278261995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 < 1278261999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually an awesome acceleration pattern < 1278262071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that we start with 1, ofc < 1278262075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 lines per interval would be useless < 1278262129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fib(n) = fib(n+1) + fib(n-2) surely you want n-1 not n+1 < 1278262150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1278262151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278262156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1278262178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delta^n fib(m) = fib(m-n) < 1278262184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...undelta^n fib(m) = fib(m+n) < 1278262189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Undelta < 1278262212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about you but that seems like a pretty cool acceleratory property to me < 1278262344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: has anyone used fibonacci as a nice acceleration sequence in this way before, do you know? < 1278262364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1278262414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just sucked an icecube and it popped < 1278262419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdest thing. < 1278262424 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278262724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, awesome, yaedit has a prefix option < 1278262959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have: - An option to set the bloody tab size and screw up your indenting. Tabs are 8 spaces, get over it. < 1278262962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1278263109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah it's a silly opinion but even ais523 holds it religiously < 1278263125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that 1 tab = indent until mod 8 = 0, or in today's world, indent 8 spaces) < 1278263131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also slightly amused by "- Menus or ugly icons that take up precious screen real-estate." < 1278263137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When coupled with the screenshot < 1278263145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has, like, the tiniest screen < 1278263153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i have tried it out and with a more reasonable screen size it's alright < 1278263153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1278263157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the left hand side is... the only UI :P < 1278263169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it still /sucks/ incorrigibly, why do you think i'm writing an editor? < 1278263185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max undo levels? why do I want max undo levels? is your computer going to run out of memory or something? < 1278263191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that he complains about screen real-estate and then has an UI that takes up around 30-40% of his screen :-P < 1278263208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... don't think he has a 454x360 screen. < 1278263215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1278263225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, you know what I meant < 1278263253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does pygtk babysteps < 1278263256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is easy actually! < 1278263285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling save-everything-then-Ctrl+S-does-VCS-commit might be a pain if you're setting other programs on the file, but eh, just disable it if you do that < 1278263695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone's wondering the best code window size at whatever 10pt at 85ppi is, is 640x432 < 1278263698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just the code, nothing else) < 1278263737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can display... 31.9 lines, or something, should probably round that up, and 88 columns for some reason < 1278264288 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278264302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, gtksourceview themes suck. < 1278264344 0 :77CAAV6KB!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278264393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now i'll do file loading ... then the actual hard part < 1278264416 0 :77CAAV6KB!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1278264594 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278264687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The operations between the begin_user_action() and end_user_action() methods can then be grouped when creating an undo stack." < 1278264688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1278264873 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278264873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have gtk experience? < 1278264930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it man! < 1278264932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it! < 1278264965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: don't do what < 1278264970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make the most AWESOME editor ever? < 1278264989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Don't do GTK. < 1278264998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an abomination. < 1278265001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not, it's so eaaaaaaaaaaaasy to use in python < 1278265039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm using it tastefully < 1278265085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1278265088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: suggest something better < 1278265178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wxwidgets? FLTK? A hole in the head? < 1278265233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt? < 1278265240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ever tried to use wxWidgets? Ever looked at a wxWidgets interface? < 1278265244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. < 1278265260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLTK? Well, sure, point me to the ready-made source widget :-) < 1278265274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is hideously complex to get going and the signals/slots stuff is just living pain if you're trying to get something simple done. < 1278265276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt? < 1278265277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/ < 1278265282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really, what's wrong with GTK if it's used simply? < 1278265289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is that a ready-made source widget? < 1278265295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1278265296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I forgot to mention that FLTK is ugly as hell. < 1278265299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Look at Gobjects. Deeply. < 1278265304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Yes I have. < 1278265311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are already running a GTK program right now. < 1278265315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already have GObjects on your system. < 1278265320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it won't even be interfaced into an actual object system. < 1278265327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1278265330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, on the other hand, will be using GObject interfaced to Python's object system; the two blend rather well. < 1278265364 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278265371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1278265384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I use Conkeror. < 1278265394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the *only program* I have with GObjects. < 1278265425 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278265437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And do GObjects personally affect you while using it? < 1278265446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh wait. Mlterm. Darnit. < 1278265449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. And they won't personally affect me while writing it, as I'll see them all as Python objects. < 1278265450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not at all. < 1278265457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, the only thing GObjects damage is our sanity when we look at them, which we're not doing. < 1278265465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I will continue to use GTK as it's the easiest thing for this :P < 1278265472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the source code is enough to make me want to murder RMS. < 1278265541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ../../../gcc-4.5.0/libgcc/config/libbid/bid_decimal_globals.c:47:18: fatal error: fenv.h: No such file or directory < 1278265552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This error. How did you make it go away in Microcosm? < 1278265567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to build an i386-pc-linux-newlib GCC < 1278265705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic. < 1278265727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1278265921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so what ui element should i add first ... hmm < 1278265947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i should make it indent properly first < 1278265971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtksourceview takes view a bit literally it seems, and doesn't do intelligent autoindentation < 1278265997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why oh why is it using xgcc for a *cross compiler*? < 1278266104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "make all-gcc" is how you tell it to just make the compiler. XD < 1278266238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make every GCC, EVER. < 1278266244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All versions, all platforms, all settings. < 1278266263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Themselves compiled with every GCC, EVER. < 1278266308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh no. < 1278266324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why isn't there a library that just works out autoindentation? < 1278266567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Furthermore, should I write one? < 1278266610 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278266837 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278267007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh* < 1278267038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ugh? < 1278267057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS NEWLIB FAILING SO HARD AT CROSS COMPILATION < 1278267075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1278267110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, no joke, trying to build x86_64 assembly for an i386 libc. < 1278267125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i suggest you write an indentation library < 1278267185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries with linux32 < 1278267363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MWAHAHAHA MY EDITOR WILL BE SO AWESOME THAT YOU WILL USE IT AND SUFFER < 1278267378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Yeah: newlib is "smart". < 1278267397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's convinced that because you're going linux->linux, it can special case a bunch of stuff. < 1278267416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so it does stupid stuff. < 1278267431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing an autoindenter is hard :( < 1278267438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with tabs for indent spaces for align < 1278267451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucksit. < 1278267462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably get a uclibc system working now. < 1278267467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or CAN you < 1278267500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278267532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggest a feature for my editor so I can tell you why I'm not going to add it! < 1278267541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multi-file support < 1278267554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GI < 1278267557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it will have that. < 1278267559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI, I mean. < 1278267571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You didn't deliver :-/ < 1278267574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well... it'll have widgets ... but very few of them, and you'll rarely click them. :P < 1278267579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, suggest something /slightly/ less fundamental. < 1278267587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax highlighting < 1278267595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Scripting support. < 1278267635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Define scripting. < 1278267648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ... be a /little/ bit outlandish, please? :D < 1278267654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know Elisp? < 1278267663 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278267664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do know elisp. < 1278267674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1278267696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't think of much else to be honest < 1278267705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it will not have scripting support because it'll be so simple that scripting it would be basically pointless, as there isn't anything to script. If there's an actual "big" (big being almost anything in this context) feature you want to add, you can patch the code easily enough. < 1278267731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How about "a save file command"? :P < 1278267741 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scripting is overrated < 1278267766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Alright, that < 1278267777 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278267842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have this disease where I never bother using a VCS because, even with editor support, making a commit is so much of a fuss as opposed to simply not doing it. So, with my editor, I'm moving the goalposts: every change is saved automatically, and the minimal-effort action, Ctrl+S, is "make VCS commit"; it will prompt for a one line summary, which I'll type and press enter, and that'll be it. For files where this is undesirable, it will be disable < 1278267842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :able in a few keypresses. < 1278267871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW you will have that, just not by default < 1278267874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way, I can just type and then invoke e.g. "git diff" to see what I've changed so far, making a commit will be as instinctual and automatic as saving is now, with no extra effort, and I'll have a nicely fine-grained revision history. < 1278267884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes. But that's just for editing /etc files. :P < 1278267888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it won't be in version 0.01. < 1278267937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or I could be a nazi, and tell you to version /etc and ~/.*. < 1278267942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not have any save command at all. < 1278267947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't do that, so I won't. :P < 1278267971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the intended purpose of the editor is /etc, ~/.*, and source code? :-P < 1278267992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name another purpose? Writing textual works is also included, but you should be versioning them anyway. < 1278268075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modifying autogenerated files < 1278268092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, generally you shouldn't do that. Example of when you would? < 1278268118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often modify configure scripts and makefiles because that's much easier than figuring out why the autotools/whatever got something wrong < 1278268139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I do know why, but that's much easier than changing the generators < 1278268179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then press whatever keys disable the magic. :P < 1278268218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+. A or something (A for Autosave). < 1278268230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Ctrl+S would be save, and Ctrl+S on an already-saved file would be VCS commit. < 1278268231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; just pointing out that your "be a nazi" option isn't very realistic even if people would agree to that much :-P < 1278268240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I /am/ writing this just for me. :P < 1278268277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Context-sensitive tab completion < 1278268285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean smart autoindentation? < 1278268311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll have that. It's minimalist in fluff, not in text editing features. :P < 1278268321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it won't have macros. < 1278268367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; completion, not indentation < 1278268372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, completion. < 1278268378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, none of that... unless I change my mind. < 1278268388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd generally think that if your names are long enough to need completing you have shitty names. < 1278268392 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278268406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason I won't have snippet-macros. < 1278268424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278269099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at documentation for CWEB. I was trying to see what features it has. I was specifically looking for the feature to export parts to other files, the @( command does that it is exactly what I was looking for. But in my opinion there is still one feature missing, which is a kind of meta-macros, which can take parameters and output C codes, TeX codes, and other CWEB codes. < 1278269126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1278269305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to add command such as @M defines a meta-macro, and @X does a calculation before compile-time, including checking whether the mode is tangle or weave. < 1278269326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make CWEB useful, in my opinion. < 1278269581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this command were added I might rewrite MegaZeux with CWEB and convert the documention of MegaZeux into TeX. But as it is right now, I cannot do such a thing as that. This way all documentation can be neatly printed with cross-references to the relevent part of the codes, and with automatically for all Forth and Robotic commands, together with the relevent code and also printable in separate section for reference manual < 1278270261 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-116.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270335 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270356 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278270493 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278270509 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270513 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you do me a favor and translate http://mtg-jp.com/eventc/jpnats10/img/preview.jpg ? < 1278270600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I can try. < 1278270622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1278270668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry for being rude, I should have said please :) < 1278270742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awakened Thoughts 2U. Sorcery. Choose one instant or sorcery card from your graveyard, and put it into your hand. < 1278270746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the rules text. < 1278270757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make out the flavortext. < 1278270961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1278271046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../gcc-4.5.0/libiberty/strsignal.c:554:1: error: conflicting types for â€psignal’ < 1278271050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION twitches < 1278271963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the *distinct* feeling that cross-compiling GCC is not a much-tested feature < 1278272003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that < 1278272010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Making a GCC cross-compiler < 1278272029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's so incredibly brittle! < 1278272038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't GCC mostly thus? :-P < 1278272084 0 :ryan__!~revfitz@adsl-75-45-0-162.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278272228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/crosscc/i386-pc-linux-uclibc/i386-pc-linux-uclibc/include/unistd.h:243:21: error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers < 1278272231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, y'know what? < 1278272237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does plan9 support non-bitmap fonts? < 1278272239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC can go to hell. < 1278272249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278272252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about any sort of antialiasing? < 1278272257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to create a cross-compiler to? < 1278272265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i386-pc-linux-uclibc < 1278272280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you on? < 1278272287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64-pc-linux-gnu < 1278272300 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang is definitely an option < 1278272321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it build uClibc and busybox? < 1278272326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know < 1278272331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they C? < 1278272339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they heavily laden with GNU extensions? < 1278272358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the answers are yes and no, then clang should be able to do it; if they're both yes, it's a definitive maybe < 1278272397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're C and heavily laden with GNU extensions. < 1278272573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1278272576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can, yes < 1278272578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and antialiasing < 1278272580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no subpixel afaik < 1278272670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helveticka Smallcapulated. < 1278272676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gothic Helvetica XD < 1278272780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so, I'm working on amend -1 < 1278272808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me about it when I return (it will be shortly) < 1278272815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1278272898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longly. < 1278272946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know of any auto-indentation libraries? :/ < 1278272953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, ones that will tell you what string to enter on this indented newline < 1278272956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how to indent this given line < 1278272958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given its context < 1278272971 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278272981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very language-dependent and tricky problem :-P < 1278273068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not see an easy way to tell clang the *libc* you want it to use < 1278273115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So is syntax highlighting. < 1278273151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling I'm going to be the first person to try to build a clang *for* uclibc. < 1278273163 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What string to enter"? < 1278273167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes; and most editors have syntax highlighting but not clever indentation < 1278273168 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, program for you? < 1278273202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches alise bring in the singularity < 1278273216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no, as in the string of indentation < 1278273219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gedit, kate, emacs, vim, notepad++, ... < 1278273222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: every IDE, ever, ... < 1278273241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All even /tolerable/ editors do it. < 1278273245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Are we still talking about indenting with tabs and aligning with spaces? < 1278273252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, not that particularly. < 1278273263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just automatically inserting an indent on {, deducing indentation from context, etc. < 1278273265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; because I know of no editor that does that correctly < 1278273271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Emacs does with a very short elisp snippet. < 1278273276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice. But that's just icing on the cake. < 1278273302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What GtkSourceView calls auto-indentation is actually just "repeat the last line's indentation", something I find utterly unusable in the face of actual automatic indentation. < 1278273312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking if there's a library to do proper automatic indentation. If not, I guess I'll write one. < 1278273332 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ladies and gentleman < 1278273338 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly gentleman) < 1278273348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now going to prepare to celebrate my country's independence < 1278273354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by getting very very drunk. < 1278273360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: entirely gentleman, unless you follow the coppro theory of total nickname-based gender reassignment. < 1278273368 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do not. < 1278273374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then entirely gentleman. < 1278273375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gentlemen < 1278273389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm sex reassignment too, if he claims i have a vagina in the context of #esoteric < 1278273390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. we are a gentleman's club then. < 1278273403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone has sex organs in the context of #esoteric < 1278273406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sukoshi -- who else used to come here and be female? I don't recall. < 1278273407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really part of the protocol. < 1278273410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, isn't Slereah female? < 1278273417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know iamcal isn't female? < 1278273423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1278273426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you know your mom isn't female < 1278273427 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I making an assumption based on the nick? < 1278273428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because he's cal henderson, guy at flickr < 1278273434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: french gay guy < 1278273435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your gender is generally irrelevant in context of #esoteric < 1278273437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i forgot whois exist < 1278273438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1278273446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iamcal.com/ < 1278273461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's one of only two people here with a wikipedia article < 1278273463 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hai < 1278273472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: not female no < 1278273475 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I disgressed, but now I must bid everyone good day. I must see how many different vodka concoctions I can invent in a night. < 1278273478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_Henderson < 1278273479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28The_Simplest_Universal_Computer_Proof_contest_winner%29 < 1278273480 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*digressed < 1278273486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: enjoy destroying your liver and losing your higher cognitive function! < 1278273494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: hi. < 1278273496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There! Now I wrote "Icochash". < 1278273501 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I will. immensely.. < 1278273501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: oklopol thinks you're female < 1278273516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278273534 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm mnaly < 1278273574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "mnaly" a word? < 1278273580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean "manly"? < 1278273584 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a badly spelt one < 1278273585 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/iamcal < 1278273603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those could just be photographs of people who aren't you but share your name < 1278273609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or people pretending you're male to support your conspiracy < 1278273616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/or/, you could actually just be a really manly-looking female. < 1278273627 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, it's ture < 1278273628 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278273636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally ture, mr. mnaly < 1278273659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sideburns are nearly connecting under my chin. < 1278273671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're trying to make up for my otherwise complete lack of facial hair by making a pseudobeard. < 1278273676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is *this* close to just murdering every person responsible for modern compilers < 1278273692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please do it. Not the pcc guys though. < 1278273695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is nice. Use pcc. < 1278273698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do nothing except use pcc. < 1278273710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am very, very heavily tempted to just use PCC and Newlib. < 1278273712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have no compiler in your thoughts apart from pcc. Associate the concept of compiler directly with pcc, and cast away any other such associations. < 1278273724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm presuming that Newlib is PCC-buildable) < 1278273808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1278273848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem like the kind of guys who would care about being sane and reasonable C. < 1278273891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What're you trying to do? :P < 1278273898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Something awful. < 1278273950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I JUST WANT A TOOLCHAIN TO BUILD SMALL BINARIES < 1278273952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1278273969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DO you? < 1278274178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to murder everyone? < 1278274236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyever not? < 1278274252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you murder someone it is not reversible < 1278274261 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to make fun of people who rely too heavily on IDEs "I don't need to know how things get compiled and linked! The IDE takes care of everything" but then realized that that's the case with me and Visual Studio and C# < 1278274284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your brain ... this is your brain slowly decaying under the influence of C#. < 1278274292 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatting in this channel is also irreversible < 1278274294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Neither is computation, my good friend! < 1278274332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are irreversible < 1278274334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it can, yes <-- do you happen to remember how? < 1278274344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um do you have /n/sources? < 1278274358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what was it, /n/contrib < 1278274369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, /n/sources < 1278274384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: run "9fs sources" < 1278274404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just automatically inserting an indent on {, deducing indentation from context, etc. <-- iirc kate does that for C pretty well < 1278274414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as your source isn't too much a mess of macros < 1278274415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it can do subpixel, cool < 1278274420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but different fonts, maybe they're just coloured bitmaps < 1278274424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, run "9fs sources" < 1278274424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-function like ones < 1278274430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in /n/sources/contrib there's like tons of fonts < 1278274433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep /font/ http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/index.html < 1278274445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was primarily thinking about plan9port, figured they would work the same when it came to that < 1278274462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, good question < 1278274465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget how to configure it < 1278274473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i suggest asking in #plan9. i'll even join to shut uriel up for you < 1278274488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nah. I'll just do some more digging < 1278274495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than that < 1278274496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll just mention how I really love using emacs to edit Linux/C++/GTK+ source that prints liberal propaganda.) < 1278274501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #plan9 is a nice channel apart from uriel. < 1278274507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /ignore uriel and it's a perfectly civilised place < 1278274515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does he have op? < 1278274518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278274521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278274524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meh < 1278274534 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if I had my way, it would have been Python < 1278274536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, continue wasting your time :P they're very helpful with plan9port questions in my experience < 1278274555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway kate can do that "insert tab on { or if or such" for C < 1278274556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but here's a hint < 1278274559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think the font setting is in ~/lib < 1278274562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/lib/profile i think < 1278274563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my experience is that it does it very well < 1278274563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some people still has other things to do, they can't do so what they want if. Would you like if someone killed you? If you commit suicide is same thiing. And in my opinion you also should not burn books. The biggest problem in the world is the people. But it doesn't mean we should just get rid of it like that. < 1278274578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is some TV show about serial killers that kill only other serial killers, if you have kill someone that is one way. < 1278274583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I expect there are corner cases it messes up on < 1278274591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are other complications < 1278274598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots hda < 1278274604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'll look for the font settings on plan 9 for you < 1278274606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boots qemu < 1278274612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes you have to take the path of the "lesser evil". < 1278274622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah it was plan9port I needed it for actually so.. < 1278274630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fun fact, plan9port is the same code. < 1278274640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes though it uses the X backend instead < 1278274647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1278274649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1278274651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might mean this bit is different < 1278274654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses drawterm. < 1278274658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which uses X < 1278274661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the exact same graphics code, just connected to via X. < 1278274665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But it's /pixels/. < 1278274668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aha < 1278274669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawterm is /pixels/. < 1278274671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that level < 1278274671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278274688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ~/lib/profile: < 1278274692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :font = /lib/font/bit/pelm/euro.9.font < 1278274698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278274735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so maybe look at $PLAN9/lib/profile < 1278274737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $PLAN9/lib/font < 1278274741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278275472 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f = open(self.filename, 'rb+') < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.write(text) < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.truncate() < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.close() < 1278275516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would someone do this? < 1278275607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this" being what exactly? < 1278275615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use r+ instead of just using w there. < 1278275633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No good reason < 1278275664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. < 1278275669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't need the truncate with w, either. < 1278275676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What if you already have self.filename open? < 1278275690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1278275692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you would need the truncate, for other programs writing at the same time, but... < 1278275699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, truncating after write? < 1278275704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is this < 1278275706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: python < 1278275708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278275726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the semantics of multiple programs doing stuff to a file at the same time < 1278275743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "messy" as far as I remember < 1278275755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, this thing is going to write the file on every change. Fuck other programs :P < 1278275756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably < 1278275759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if the file changes size < 1278275782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if two processes mmap a file it is not really an issue < 1278275794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I wonder if Python can mmap. < 1278275799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, moving laptop and moving it to ethernet < 1278275808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it can < 1278275811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but not as a string. < 1278275877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maps length bytes from the file specified by the file descriptor fileno, and returns a mmap object. If length is 0, the maximum length of the map will be the current size of the file when mmap is called." < 1278275880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIVE BILLION BYTES < 1278275921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use mmap for the "file writing" semantics, than other files accessing it should work just fine. < 1278275948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As anything else opening a file will be using the same mmap'd buffer. < 1278275975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: mmap length is greater than file size < 1278275981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... shut up. < 1278275986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, things going through stdio might see an inconsistent view of the file, because of stdio buffering. < 1278276008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if someone is expecting that to work they should be shot anyways. < 1278276032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for Python's "in the background, after N seconds, do this" < 1278276100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timer(N, do_this).start() < 1278276112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/sched.html yay < 1278276116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh. Which is better? < 1278276127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.5/library/threading.html < 1278276130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1278276144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timer looks simpler < 1278276318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually, it seems that just writing the file in full on every single change without a delay is fast enough. < 1278276328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, you know, cool. < 1278276332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would depend on your machine and the file size :-P < 1278276347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of text files do you edit? < 1278276358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ginormous ones? < 1278276362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally < 1278276371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How slow is your computer? :P < 1278276398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My disk is slow enough that writing megabytes every time I type something will be noticeable < 1278276430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the background. < 1278276470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter < 1278276524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As anything else opening a file will be using the same mmap'd buffer. <--- what if one opens() and mmaps() but the other only opens() and then uses read()/write()? < 1278276527 0 :ryan__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278276534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what if one truncates to less than the mmaped size < 1278276587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the mouse feet is off :( < 1278276667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:45:18 Deewiant: Actually, it seems that just writing the file in full on every single change without a delay is fast enough. <-- do this on a SSD using a log based fs? < 1278276727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway try that on a large image in gimp. See why it isn't fun to do so < 1278276739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite honsetly, it works just fine :P < 1278276741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*honestly < 1278276742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in, 50 MP panorama or such < 1278276748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMP != text editor < 1278276752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes < 1278276767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for the special case of text editor I guess it works < 1278276924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AiPR < 1278276935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written Icochash now, I tested it it works. < 1278276946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, zzo38 is inventing word processors /and/ forms < 1278276959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, there is not yet the program to print out the data or to render to HTML or whatever < 1278277010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The http://sprunge.us/AiPR is a very simple example. < 1278277043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hopefully you can learn how it works a bit from this example? < 1278277046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon, zzo38 will have ZZOS. < 1278277057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it shall be the most bizarre yet amazing thing ever. < 1278277073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Please, please make a spreadsheet program. < 1278277080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be the world's only batch-mode spreadsheet program. < 1278277086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: One day I might make a spreadsheet program. But not right now < 1278277095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :D < 1278277200 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't invent a word processor? < 1278277260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the example code is understandable to you? < 1278277289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Icoruma is basically a batch-mode word processor. < 1278277320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK. Yes it is like that, but Icoruma is like a markup language and programming stuff, and specifically meant for role playing games. < 1278277334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma is not meant for anything other than role playing games. Icochash is also meant for role playing games. < 1278277431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is very wrong with this... hmm. < 1278277439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not general purpose programs and therefore do not contain some of the features you might expect in a word processing program, such as selecting different fonts, setting margins, and so on. < 1278277519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What is very wrong? < 1278277533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just my program, but I figured it out. < 1278277563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1278277681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of any algorithms that, when given text A, text B and (line,col) in text A, return the closest thing in text B? < 1278277682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reloading files < 1278277749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 06:48:41 Wow, someone actually bothered to clean up the video on the DVD release of The Next Generation and then encoded it all with x264 on super-high settings, yielding a 550 MiB-per-episode average. < 1278277755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am intrigued. < 1278277769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By TNG, I mean /every single season/, incidentally. < 1278277775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want links? < 1278277784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278277796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to have someone else download it for me. :) < 1278277804 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would rather stream it < 1278277806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds you the torrentz.com versions, since they have a list of trackers (making downloads a lot faster). < 1278277837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, it's almost 100 GiB for the whole thing. < 1278277842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 GiB or something. < 1278277849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Terabytes are cheap. < 1278277869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, the seeders are a bit... preoccupied with other people, so it won't be fast. < 1278277873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that the guy I'm talking to has uncapped Internet and a 5TB RAID ATM. < 1278277896 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's HD is 100GiB < 1278277906 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278277916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: $80 gets you an order of magnitude increase. < 1278277929 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just want a new computer < 1278278093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 200 GB hard drive. (It is the smallest one they sold) And only 5% of the capacity is used < 1278278103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.pulse360.com/blob/7e/2f91ba2_ecruzSwipeBids.jpg that does not look like an iPad to me < 1278278111 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think iPads have menus like that < 1278278114 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be mistaken < 1278278146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need iPad < 1278278247 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants an Android tablet < 1278278298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants people to quit being so excited by tablets when the form factor sucks :P < 1278278320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: As opposed to wearable computing, which had a totally hip and usable form factor. < 1278278333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it's a silly, ridiculous joke. < 1278278342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Apple ever makes a wearable computer, I'll have no interest in it. < 1278278356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The form factor, that is. < 1278278424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want any tablet, especially if it doesn't have a physical keyboard built in. Perhaps I would be more likely to buy it if it has Forth. < 1278278469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even if it doesn't have Forth, it ought to be able that I can put C programs on it without any mess from Apple or whatever < 1278278649 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write C stuff for Android.. kind of. You'd still need to write some Java, and you couldn't write it on the device itself < 1278278677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be simple enough to make a Forth interpreter, though, right? < 1278278682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this bullshit! < 1278278687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes < 1278278688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Python and Ruby and.. thingy interpreters < 1278278692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You sure have changed your opinion :P < 1278278695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing Forth interpreter is simple < 1278278715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what does it mean "write C stuf for Android.. kind of"? < 1278278745 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think so, it was always silly, just good silly fun. < 1278278750 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do logic and 3d stuff (I think) in C, but you still need to write some Java < 1278278757 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or other JVM language < 1278278764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but you liked it :P < 1278278768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? < 1278278769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it have to use JVM? < 1278278773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like esoteric programming languages. < 1278278776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And you don't now < 1278278790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I say I don't like wearable computing? < 1278278794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lurve wearable computing. < 1278278799 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, because that's what Android does (although strictly, it turns JVM bytecode into Dalvik bytecode, I think) < 1278278803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1278278820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's wearable computer would just be a sleek, thin, ultralight aluminium tshirt and an eye implant. < 1278278824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What is Dalvik bytecode? < 1278278833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tshirt would also include integrated gloves. < 1278278834 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278278836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can write C stuff for Android.. kind of. You'd still need to write some Java, and you couldn't write it on the device itself <-- n900! < 1278278837 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing even the simplest thing in haskell is so fucking tiring < 1278278840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way better :P < 1278278844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's because you suck < 1278278844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/12674501 <- he's so awesome < 1278278852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's a mormon! < 1278278855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this keynote < 1278278855 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, it's because you suck < 1278278860 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm distracted. < 1278278868 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luby on lails < 1278278899 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to do a simple thing in Haskell, ended up doing it in Python. Then again, I have far more Python experience than experience in any other language, so... < 1278278924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Android not support native code? < 1278278931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but not very well < 1278278939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it does, but rather limited what you can interface with it < 1278278954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do the GUI bits in java iirc < 1278278955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wearable computing with eyetracking-based interfaces. The best thing since sliced bread. < 1278278976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like HMDs? < 1278278989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an eyetracker to select lines in a file. < 1278278994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278279000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMDs are cool < 1278279006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Java like the IO monad, and native code like pure code? < 1278279034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What is that, is that Haskell? < 1278279036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad analogy for anything where C is involved < 1278279058 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278279075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The current NDK has OpenGL ES support from native code, and also something called "libjnigraphics" which is supposed to be an efficient and comfortable way for pushing pixel buffers from native code to be displayed. But still, if you want actual platform-like GUI stuff, that needs to be done in Java. < 1278279132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and neither opengl nor "libjnigraphics" presumably includes input drivers for example? < 1278279142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, driver is wrong word < 1278279143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1278279166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely you're going to do some JNI for input, but of course you can probably pretty easily just pass some events onwards to native code. < 1278279181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278279206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I still can't get a shell, right? < 1278279209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike on n900 < 1278279243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how it goes with jailbreakery, but not on a stock phone, no. < 1278279254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1278279386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with a full POSIX environment? < 1278279549 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278279608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it needs is a cellular phone model with physical keyboard and command-line-interface, no proprietary hardware/software, one color display inside and one small monochrome display on the outside, the GNU GPL v3, and that any AT command can be entered on the keyboard, and a built-in Forth interpreter, and no useless animations < 1278279638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ability to provide a USB file system to a computer it is connected to. < 1278279659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, go design that one < 1278279680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting a completely non-proprietary GSM/3G radio stack going might not be completely trivial. < 1278279692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also clamshell phones suck < 1278279701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to break in the hinges in my experience < 1278279778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion it is important to be able to close, to stop accident push any buttons and also to save power by turning off the color display when it is not used. < 1278279807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that is why you have some sort of lock < 1278279810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1278279832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on my phone, middle button below screen, followed by * < 1278279835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locks/unlocks < 1278279844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a non-smartphone < 1278279845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't close then where is room for the keyboard? < 1278279864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, keypad. Anyway n900 has a keyboard you can slide out < 1278279882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slide-out seems to be more popular than fold-open nowadays. < 1278279891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably breaks less < 1278279894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's easier to do reliably, yes. < 1278279932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they need touch screen as well (although multitouch is not needed), so that you can dial telephone numbers more easily, and then put the physical QWERTY keyboard for entering more complex stuff or if you do not want to get the display dirty with your fingerprints. < 1278279948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the drivers for the GSM/3G stack on your phone, are they binary blobs? < 1278279949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think slide-out is patented? < 1278279979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All handset manufacturers at least seem to be doing it; patented or not. < 1278279996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds too trivial to be patented to me, but, well... patents. < 1278279998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the n900 come with a pen for the touch screen as well? < 1278280015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if so, is it storeable somewhere inside the phone? < 1278280043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's uncomfortably many binary blobs in the N900, yes. It's still not as bad as it could be, though; lots of drivers have their sources visible too. < 1278280059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. So upgrading to the last kernel might be non-trivial? < 1278280062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And yes, there is a stylus, which is stored inside the phone. < 1278280106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aren't people reverse engineering the binary blobs? < 1278280116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1278280129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably more interesting things to hack for them to bother. People are such pragmatists. < 1278280137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278280265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently based on 2.6.28, but there's probably a pile of patches on top of it. The kernel sources used are somewhat easily available, though, if you want to build a patched/reconfigured one. < 1278280271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my idea, the touch-screen is only needed for more easily dialing telephone numbers (and also possibly for scrolling), but everything can be done without touch-screen as well. All commands are enterable by keyboard. < 1278280294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1278280314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange it hasn't upgraded to 2.6.30 or newer at least < 1278280330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what about games? < 1278280340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, touch screen could be needed there < 1278280342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the kernel is heavily hacked < 1278280404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MeeGo 1.0 kernel is based on 2.6.33.3, and you can install that on the N900 if you want. (I doubt it works very well yet, though.) < 1278280419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can program another program to use touch screen for other stuff (such as games if you write any), but all built-in functions are enterable by keyboard, including some games. < 1278280448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "Day1 Developer Preview" for a reason. < 1278280451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you opened and then to call a phone number, you can enter the AT commands on the keyboard, or you can touch the screen to display the keypad < 1278280462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1278280482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i hate your police < 1278280486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the replacement for the n900 line? n9? < 1278280487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There does not need to be any games built in, what I meant is that you can write games that use only the keyboard, such as Rogue) < 1278280490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1278280495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok the police in another city in another province in your country :P < 1278280516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: n900 is still latest in its line < 1278280522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's just rumours (of N9) so far. < 1278280532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, not more than that. I see < 1278280534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 03:15, 26 June 2010 Fastily (talk | contribs) deleted "Nokia N9" ‎ (Expired PROD, concern was: Unsourced, unreleased phone) < 1278280573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And N8 is an announced-but-I-think-not-yet-out Symbian^3 phone, which they've said will be the only Symbian^3 N-series device; rest will be MeeGo, and maybe Symbian^4 some day in the far future. < 1278280623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278280630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't symbian very shitty? < 1278280633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278280638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It drives programmers to suicide. < 1278280646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They're trying to unshittify it, but with not much luck so far. < 1278280663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian is, indeed, very Ĺżhitty. < 1278280668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will now unshittify this piece of shit!" < 1278280670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it in power usage, compared to meego? < 1278280673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are left with ... nothing!" < 1278280678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard maemo was a bit heavy on power < 1278280694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Better, I'd assume, lacking such heavy things as "a Linux kernel". < 1278280704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MeeGo? < 1278280708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that that open thing? < 1278280711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1278280716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MeEgo < 1278280722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Gregor should sue! < 1278280722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It's the merging of Nokia's Maemo and Intel's... Moblin, was it? < 1278280726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moblin, yes. < 1278280730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mob Linux. < 1278280742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for the first freebsd phone < 1278280748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N8 hardware is not too shabby, but nothing too excessive either; 640x360 AMOLED screen, 680 MHz CPU, 256M RAM and so on. It does have a 12-megapixel camera with a real Xenon flash, which I think is pretty rare for a phone. < 1278280769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what CPU? < 1278280773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"High-end" phones nowadays seem to be around 1 GHz clockspeeds and half a gig of RAM. < 1278280774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM? < 1278280783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're always ARM. < 1278280789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278280798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some ARM11 or another, maybe one of the OMAP platform chipsets. < 1278280812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so, how fast was n900? < 1278280839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 MHz ARM. < 1278280855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snapdragon is hawt. < 1278280855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278280862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is that? < 1278280868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 1GHz ARM platform. < 1278280879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Snapdragon application processor core, dubbed Scorpion, is Qualcomm's own design and is not based on any ARM core from ARM holdings. It has many features similar to those of the ARM Cortex-A8 core, but has much higher performance for multimedia-related SIMD operations.[1][2] All Snapdragon processors contain the circuitry to decode High-Definition (HD) video at 720p resolution.[3] The GPU is AMD Z430. < 1278280893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something else at that clockspeed nowadays too. < 1278280897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1GHz ARM. On-chip 720p video decoding. < 1278280913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And remember that an N MHz ARM is better-performing than an N MHz old x86. < 1278280916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe not new x86s.) < 1278280937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what we need, is Icochash templates for D&D 3.5e games. I can write some but I would like to do collaboration as well of these things < 1278280967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should rewrite your website/gopherhole in Icoruma. You could use that form package to do Chronojournal's forms. < 1278280974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be awesome and ridiculous. < 1278281003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It would be completely ridiculous. Icoruma and Icochash is not meant for such things and it probably won't work such well like that. < 1278281011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OMAP isn't 1GHz. < 1278281026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe the common term is "gopherspace" not "gopherhole") < 1278281027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, why not? Icoruma typesets documents pretty well, Icochash seems to just be a form generator. < 1278281033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but gopherhole is a nicer term. :P < 1278281042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, wait: "# OMAP4440 - 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX 540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)". < 1278281042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK then use that term if you want to < 1278281045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently announced, apparently. < 1278281054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/BeagleBoard_described.jpg 600MHz ARM -- laptop-like performance! < 1278281055 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, learning how to make a hash tree in haskell is difficult. < 1278281077 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you know anything about dependent typing? < 1278281082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: quite a lot. < 1278281098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dabble in type theory a lot. < 1278281140 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what can i use dependant typing for < 1278281150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing your PhD thesis. < 1278281163 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a real-world use case < 1278281167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes Icoruma can typeset documents and stuff, but it doesn't support external hyperlinks and that kind of stuff.... Icoruma and Icochash are not meant for this stuff. There are good uses for Icoruma and Icochash but they are not meant for general-purpose things like this < 1278281169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, only 128 MB? < 1278281195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma and Icochash are meant only for role playing games. While you can do a few other things with it, it isn't that good for those other kind of things that is other than role playing game. < 1278281199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: On a more serious note, http://strictlypositive.org/winging-jpgs/ provides some justification and real-world use-cases for IO handling. Really they have many, many applications, but the problem is that there are several issues right now and so at the present time they are research only. < 1278281227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: They would make languages like Haskell much more expressive in what they accept, and allow more program errors to be caught at runtime. < 1278281238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1278281241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the mathematical connections in that a dependent type checker is a proof checker, exploited to create constructivist proof systems such as Coq. < 1278281246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at runtime? what about compile time then? < 1278281251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, at compile time. < 1278281252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1278281255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1278281255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could different types of exceptions be one use case???\ < 1278281256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on < 1278281265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Um ... I'm not sure what you mean by that. < 1278281276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either < 1278281278 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad we agree then < 1278281287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said this thing? :-) < 1278281338 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean???? < 1278281351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, i'm looking at your link now < 1278281354 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1278281364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume that if you're agreeing with me that it makes no sense, then you're trying to figure out what some other person meant when they said dependent types would help with that. < 1278281364 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think dependent typing can make it into haskell? < 1278281371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No. Very unlikely. < 1278281380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voices in my head said < 1278281380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a massive language change, and also make redundant many common features. < 1278281384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'shh... ask alise about that' < 1278281394 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know about them? < 1278281397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one day we'll get "Haskell++", the official, dependently-typed successor to Haskell. < 1278281410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Um ... I hung out in the wrong places too much (#haskell) and got sucked in to the whirlpool. < 1278281430 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan11 :D < 1278281436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hey, that's my project! < 1278281452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i'm extremely curious < 1278281458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: btw don't worry if winging it stops making sense about half way through < 1278281459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not plan10? < 1278281461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: would adding dependant typing to haskell create backwards compatibility breakage? < 1278281468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: just hang on there and wait until he starts quoting hamlet < 1278281475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not adding it, but there'd be a lot of redundant features then < 1278281480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would require major MAJOR restructuring of ghc < 1278281485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a HUGE HUGE HUGE, OLD OLD OLD codebase < 1278281493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because plan 11 is plan 9 turned up to 11 < 1278281504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not drop ghc and go with one of the other ones < 1278281513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, augh! < 1278281517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY) < 1278281525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for $$$$$ I could make you one that goes to 12 < 1278281566 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: such as what? < 1278281579 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fuck ghc, it's not haskell < 1278281592 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we can finally get a GOOD interpreter if people ditch ghc < 1278281698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, good compiler would be even better? < 1278281731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow now you're getting out of bounds < 1278281752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, ? < 1278281759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just broke my kb < 1278281762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spilled coke on it < 1278281766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work < 1278281769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ghc is one of the finest pieces of software engineering ever < 1278281770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you spill your seed on it < 1278281770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1278281771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't it coke resistant? < 1278281774 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok coke < 1278281789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the interpreter fucking sucks < 1278281796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and i hadn't even used the compiler yet < 1278281812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: The compiler is stellar. < 1278281814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm ghci is just ghc on a command line < 1278281817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a compiler < 1278281821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it < 1278281828 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1278281830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci fucking sucks < 1278281836 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even use readline < 1278281839 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wtf? < 1278281846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icochash is not really a form generator, it is a bit different. It is meant for things such as D&D character sheets. It can be used to template character sheets, check for changes, do calculations, provide presets for races/classes/spells/feats/skills, etc. < 1278281847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278281849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're retarded < 1278281851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses editline < 1278281856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please just shut up < 1278281882 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????? < 1278281882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is one of the best compilers for a language out there. < 1278281906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While it could be possible to print blank forms with Icochash, it would also be possible to print forms with everything already filled in < 1278281917 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a impudence < 1278281951 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise < 1278281956 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call a pointless race that covers 2200 miles throughout France? < 1278281992 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitulation race? < 1278281992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tour de australia < 1278281993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always found it funny that wesnoth has a "--disable-game" configure option < 1278281998 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278282004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: attempting to get out of france? < 1278282007 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278282009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1278282011 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The French. < 1278282016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol! < 1278282017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Server, right? < 1278282022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it is just --disable-client (for building just the server) it is stilly a funny name for it < 1278282025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: :D < 1278282031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...pick their noses and smoke cigarettes like they were gay < 1278282032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but --disable-client would have been more sensible < 1278282040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1278282041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: So, Plan 11. < 1278282041 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tell me how i can use it ctrl + leftarrow to skip words in ghci neow < 1278282055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: use a better ghc compile with editline < 1278282064 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ....? :D < 1278282065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure editline understands your terminal < 1278282070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Well, you were interested. < 1278282073 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1278282074 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ghci is from ubuntu < 1278282079 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be no better ghci < 1278282098 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1278282105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: then make sure it knows your terminal < 1278282107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: so ask something :P < 1278282128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it works in vim < 1278282134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to get used to the kb < 1278282138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: jesus christ < 1278282142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you don't know shit about terminals < 1278282144 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how is it going to be different from 9 ? < 1278282150 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well tell me how to do it < 1278282162 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just shouting at me won't make me feel better :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( < 1278282164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: JFGI < 1278282172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise tries to get used to the kb <-- the coke you mean? < 1278282172 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo < 1278282178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, its replacement < 1278282186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not using a kb with coke on its circuitry and keys < 1278282188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it died from coke!? < 1278282192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Apple A4, which is a Cortex-A8-family ARM core at 1 GHz in the iPad, apparently possibly something lower in the iPhone 4. < 1278282194 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise got used to coke after her first week in the red light district < 1278282194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, eww; two, *kaboom* < 1278282196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, clean it out < 1278282200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or just use this one. < 1278282204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1278282221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also what did you learn from this? < 1278282221 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his* < 1278282228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't spill glasses < 1278282250 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so did you wash it < 1278282257 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...--disable-game? < 1278282257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not either of: a) keyboards are shit b) keep coke further away from computer ? < 1278282258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no, it's just sitting there < 1278282260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both < 1278282260 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can make it work perfectly well with a wash. < 1278282270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it may have still worked, i just didn't want to find out. < 1278282272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm lazy. < 1278282283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and it's hard to keep my mouth away from my keyboard :P < 1278282292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically it was before it got in my mouth. < 1278282297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a wash. Try 90° with 500 RPM centrifuge < 1278282298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1278282308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KLANG KLANG KLANG BASH WALLOP KABOOM < 1278282312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1278282334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kling-Klang. < 1278282335 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1278282344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Kling-Klong < 1278282347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kling-Klang. < 1278282347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1278282348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klingon? < 1278282357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kraftwerk reference :P < 1278282357 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clogg < 1278282370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meh, you expected me to spot THAT? < 1278282376 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should have said 'a rinse' < 1278282382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, which is why I said it. < 1278282388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks I guess < 1278282396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, why I said the reference :P < 1278282405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1278282409 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: /quit tiuq\ < 1278282412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was a reference < 1278282416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden is a pretty cool name for an editor < 1278282421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to hear the other version < 1278282428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ?? < 1278282444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, jelly. < 1278282475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jelly coke would be harder to spill I mean. < 1278282478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the solution < 1278282506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jelly coke. < 1278282507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1278282514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question. < 1278282517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you patent that or do you need a way to actually produce jelly coke first? < 1278282518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you drink it? < 1278282519 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE 11 < 1278282540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with a spoon < 1278282543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1278282579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as long as it contains the same amount of energy and tastes the same, who cares if you eat it with a spoon or drink it < 1278282637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if someone wants carbonated jelly that might present a challenge. But I never liked carbonated drinks. Uncarbonated coke (put some sugar in) is nice though < 1278282645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pinball game I like best is this one: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/jigglebox.png < 1278282658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides setting his broken editor to edit a test file, not the editor's code, is a good idea < 1278282671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes < 1278282676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Put some sugar in coke? It's already 99% sugar :P < 1278282684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put honey in coke once, that was ... interesting ... < 1278282690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure but you know about mentos? < 1278282693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that is called < 1278282697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278282701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diet Coke + Mentos = YouTube video. < 1278282712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sugar has a similar, but somewhat less violent effect < 1278282727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard of someone that put Coke + Pepsi together, they thought it would explode but it didn't explode < 1278282738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should explode from sheer cognitive dissonance. < 1278282741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it lets you get rid of the carbonation without causing youtube video < 1278282754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Dr Pepper is clearly the best caramel-coloured drink. < 1278282761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a taste finer than any wine! < 1278282768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1278282774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer water to tell the truth < 1278282775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278282776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people prefer wine < 1278282781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :water isn't caramel-coloured < 1278282782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278282782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer water < 1278282793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you could add some food colouring to water < 1278282796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get it that way < 1278282818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still maintain that alcoholic drinks don't taste nice at all; evidence: unpopularity of alcohol-free imitation drinks. < 1278282850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are counterexamples, such as cider, which we can see tastes nice because non-alcoholic cider is very popular. < 1278282861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1278282913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason that alcohol-free counterparts are unpopular is because if ppl can drink alcoholic drinks, why would they spend their money on non alcoholic drinks < 1278282918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1278282927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because the alcoholic one gets them drunk < 1278282936 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1278282936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, people think alcoholic drinks taste nice because they get them drunk, and the brain creates the association < 1278282939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why would anyone drink alcohol? < 1278282942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcoholic drink <=> pleasure < 1278282948 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get drunk ofc < 1278282965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh, because of the hangover? < 1278282975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh if you want to have an altered state of mind, cannabis would be preferable to alcohol < 1278282994 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a state than can be called pleasant, before the hangover < 1278282999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so would (pure) LSD I understand. < 1278283007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less side effects on stuff like liver < 1278283013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsd is awesome < 1278283017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but it's probably easier to code on weed than LSD. < 1278283022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haha :P < 1278283027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People prefer different kind of these things < 1278283027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is, after all, the point! < 1278283040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way if you want altered state of mind, is, simply, practise. < 1278283055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEDITATION: It's, like, totally wack. < 1278283055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what, the Balmer peak? < 1278283059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is that the point? < 1278283077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the ballmer peak produces perfectly working, but unreadable code < 1278283089 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked < 1278283091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't it produce windows ME iirc? < 1278283094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the analogue is for weed, it produces utterly incomprehensible, yet stunningly beautiful, elegant code that does nothing useful whatsoever < 1278283097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm coding on meditation, that might be a nice ide < 1278283099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea* < 1278283115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would be ... difficult. < 1278283128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to write code when slightly drunk, but the best ideas come to you when you're *slightly* stoned < 1278283140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and what about LSD? It produces utterly incomprehensible demos that fits in 4 kB and raytraces in realtime? < 1278283148 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1278283173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278283178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome if it did! < 1278283190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you use a computer when everything is melting? < 1278283195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be ridiculous < 1278283202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps not that much lsd? < 1278283209 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it extends you consciousness < 1278283217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never tried it < 1278283223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I'd say it just alters your state of mind. :P < 1278283227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that's really hard to express in human language < 1278283243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use LSD, never plan to use LSD, don't recomend to other people to use LSD, but I won't stop someone from doing so if they really want to < 1278283244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's easy. The words are "being slightly stoned". < 1278283259 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1278283271 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, it was only a single experiment < 1278283274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use LSD, don't plan to use LSD, recommend to other people to use LSD, and would stop someone from doing so. < 1278283280 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don;t buy this stuff < 1278283284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recommend it either. Just saying that from what I heard it has less side effects than alcohol < 1278283299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is probably true < 1278283306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't drink alcoholic either < 1278283315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't plan to drink alcoholic < 1278283329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SMOKE EVIL CIGARETTES < 1278283330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID FUCKING GTKSOURCEVIEW < 1278283343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why on earth are you using that... < 1278283346 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm radioactive < 1278283355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i'm writing an editor < 1278283359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't smoke. But I wouldn't like if someone else smoke near me because the smoke affect everyone < 1278283368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and? why gtksourceview for that < 1278283369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278283380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because pygtk is really easy when it's not breaking for no apparent reason < 1278283384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it does that's gtk's fault :P < 1278283385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1278283401 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't exhale the smoke in other ppl general direction < 1278283405 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it mean < 1278283406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you are like import randall suddenly? ;P < 1278283417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't even make any sense! < 1278283430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and don't stand just outside doors smoking? < 1278283438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't smoke when you are near other people that tell you to stop smoking. If you want to smoke anyways go elsewhere < 1278283452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, ppl would have to walk through the cloud < 1278283457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, better, don't smoke at all < 1278283460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unpleasant even for smokers < 1278283461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, that is the worst bit I can tell you. I have asthma so smokers just outside the university entrance are a pita < 1278283480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1278283491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, better stop smoking < 1278283497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be hard I'm told < 1278283510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like heroin < 1278283514 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hell < 1278283547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with your cancer later on < 1278283557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm can you vaporise tobacco like cannabis? < 1278283558 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well :D < 1278283560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ... strange < 1278283568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unpleasant < 1278283580 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is something called e-cigarette < 1278283592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is e-cigarette? < 1278283596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that thing < 1278283601 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it vaporizes some solution of nicotin and flavour oils < 1278283618 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's, most probably, harmless < 1278283649 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the 'smoke' smells good and it's not irritating to the environment < 1278283675 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like it ;| < 1278283840 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278284058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot! < 1278284061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden can edit text reliably < 1278284082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cigarette smoke smells good < 1278284106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278284130 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278284135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what kind of editor are you writing? < 1278284148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: a code editor, and something basically unlike anything else. < 1278284155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more specific question may get a more specific answer :) < 1278284192 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what language? < 1278284212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything gtksourceview supports, but mainly the usual suspects: c, python, haskell < 1278284226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax highlighting and basic editor controls are provided by gtksourceview; the rest is me. < 1278284237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basic editing controls doesn't mean i won't add my own, ofc) < 1278284251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to have to code the indentation logic myself since gtksourceview can't do it < 1278284278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it opens, displays a hardcoded file, and automatically saves every single change to disk, and automatically reads any change made by another program < 1278284294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlimited undo, scrolls, you can resize the window, it copies the last line's indent, and it highlights < 1278284301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it so far < 1278284302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it have undo tree < 1278284310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you undo, then do something new < 1278284317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you go back to the undone version < 1278284324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no; remember, vcs commits replace saves < 1278284334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just pressing Ctrl+S can help your undo tree endeavours < 1278284335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tree undo is still very nice < 1278284338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a sufficiently advanced VCS < 1278284345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i'll consider it, but i have undo done for me atm :))) < 1278284364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if vcs commits are so easy i think they'll become instinctive enough that you don't need tree undo < 1278284372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general undo graph < 1278284376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc both emacs and vim can have tree undo < 1278284381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is editing leaden with itself, that's so daring < 1278284386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that sounds awesome yet impractical < 1278284387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with emacs it's an elisp extension though < 1278284398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably. But then a lot of emacs is ! < 1278284404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's hideously irresponsible to edit this with the save-on-every-change feature when it doesn't also have the trivial-version-control feature < 1278284406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it means < 1278284411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has unlimited undo (quite literally) < 1278284413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eh, who cares < 1278284427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which VCS? I suggest darcs! < 1278284443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll probably support many (and decide which to use by seeing which has a directory nearby) < 1278284449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278284454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use git right now, so that'll probably get in first < 1278284464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what will it do if it sees both .hg, .git, .bzr and .svn? < 1278284466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278284469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/both/all of/ < 1278284471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yell at you < 1278284481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice. Will it use audio? < 1278284485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278284488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests something < 1278284520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'll use a kernel exploit to take control of your whole system, replace the whole screen with an epileptic-flashing goatse, and blast white noise through your speakers while beeping your pc speaker if you have one < 1278284522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux ~/test $ hg init . < 1278284522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux ~/test $ bzr init . < 1278284524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg add . < 1278284526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr add . < 1278284527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278284532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, maybe it'll just say "You suck at version control; disabling auto-save mode." < 1278284567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding .hg/store/data/.bzr < 1278284568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1278284592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i once added a repository's .git to the repository < 1278284594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ... confusing < 1278284600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh < 1278284612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, him this doesn't ever become a stable loop < 1278284618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if one could manufacture a stable loop < 1278284619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw! my cursor synchronisation isn't working < 1278284623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this feature, you see < 1278284629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1278284630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when someone else modifies the file from underneath you < 1278284636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll keep your cursor as close as possible to where it was < 1278284643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not textually, not that advanced < 1278284646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but same offset from start of file < 1278284647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could one manufacture a stable loop out of two VCS < 1278284649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should be in the same sort of vicinity < 1278284651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no :P < 1278284673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ... quite liberating to not have to press save < 1278284673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you couldn't do it by normal means, but if one allows some sort of compression like "same as that other file" then it should be possible < 1278284675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda weird, though < 1278284676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to manually do it < 1278284679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep trying to hit ctrl+s instinctively < 1278284701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now I feel an urge for a vcs quine! < 1278284704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the zip one < 1278284707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with vcs < 1278284708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1278284710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1278284725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a dir r, which contains a repo without a working tree < 1278284725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1278284729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get a working tree < 1278284731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's keeping the position, but scrolling up, bizarrely < 1278284743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would contain a directory r < 1278284745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1278284746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git repo where you can check out a git repo containing the first git repo? nice :) < 1278284755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, git or some other one < 1278284770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, doesn't really matter which one. It is awesome with any < 1278284775 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278284793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can't have working trees all the way down < 1278284848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i could set line height < 1278284854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be a bit bigger to be comfortable < 1278284894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you using monospace? < 1278284901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the scrolled view is still resetting < 1278284902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how queer < 1278284905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1278284913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that concession to the past, at least, is made :P < 1278284934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, most source would be annoying to edit without monospace < 1278284939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is apple script but meh < 1278284944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really count < 1278284947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so weird anyway < 1278284949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's not like I'm not already breaking 100 conventions here :P < 1278284962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with elastic tabstops you could easily use proportional < 1278284972 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278284972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smalltalk uses proportional :P < 1278284977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and no one else could easily edit the code < 1278284992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, they serialise to regular tabs afaik < 1278284996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1278285002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it works then < 1278285017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I doubt every smalltalk does that < 1278285024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't there one that uses files for the source < 1278285025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1278285025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every smalltalk derived from the original < 1278285035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but gnu smalltalk is smalltalk-the-language, not smalltalk-the-smalltalk < 1278285040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1278285051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code looks quite nice in Droid Serif 12... < 1278285053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me experimenting :P < 1278285059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, talk? < 1278285062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh < 1278285066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget I said anything < 1278285068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't talk small, talk big < 1278285084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there totally needs to be an esolang called bigtalk < 1278285099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigchat < 1278285125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradigm: message-passing messages < 1278285127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only things are messages < 1278285131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages pass messages to other messages < 1278285157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god leaden is like the best text editor ever already < 1278285164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you have to edit the source code to open a different file < 1278285176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278285176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only supports python highlighting < 1278285180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't autoindent, and has no ui < 1278285194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.scrolled_view.set_hadjustment(hadjustment) < 1278285194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.scrolled_view.set_vadjustment(vadjustment) < 1278285196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it do IRC? < 1278285196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't this working... < 1278285200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, and it never will :P < 1278285206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, printf() debug those < 1278285224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, I might actually make a fork just to do that if it gets anywhere < 1278285224 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278285226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*might* < 1278285238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to annoy you < 1278285247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no printf in python :P < 1278285255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well print then < 1278285261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but printf debugging is a specific term < 1278285268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1278285278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which applies to languages where it is called something else < 1278285296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I would say printf debugging for erlang too. even though technically it would be erlang:display or io:format < 1278285329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this semester i was teaching C < 1278285341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1278285351 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what i noticed is that students don't get the idea of pointers and structures and stuff < 1278285386 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow they're weak at visualising this stuff < 1278285392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, evrything points to it working < 1278285399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything < 1278285484 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not looking hard enough for errors, obviously < 1278285489 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought it would be cool to write an interpreter of reasonable subset of C together with nice, small IDE that would visualize the execution process, evaluation of expressions and all this stuff < 1278285512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i've looked pretty damn hard < 1278285514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is gtk being wonky < 1278285541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would highlight fragments of code in runtime and show objects in memory as boxes connected with pointers (arrows) < 1278285549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1030513.txt?key=60u3wyfrcl5be6yl2ie4g ;; it's in read_file; the two print statements show that the scrollbar is being restored correctly, yet it is still scrolled to the top of the window < 1278285551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense < 1278285553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything would be interactive and easy to use < 1278285561 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm too lazy to wrote such thing < 1278285564 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write* < 1278285568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, the editor thing does its own scrolling too < 1278285570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that'll fuck it up < 1278285590 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1278285596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi python < 1278285644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find me something easier for this < 1278285680 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR dealing with gtk in ruby wasn't pleasant :| < 1278285707 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278285734 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1278286074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in ~20-30mins < 1278286367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and what i noticed is that students don't get the idea of pointers and structures and stuff < 1278286368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : somehow they're weak at visualising this stuff < 1278286369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1278286392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C teacher I had spent a lot of time on it drawing on the whiteboard. I knew C since before of course < 1278286404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought it was maybe too much < 1278286406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1278286418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial if you just start with the actual low-level memory stuff rather than attempt to fluff it up with boxes and arrows < 1278286491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you knew it was going to be boxes and arrows? rather than circles and arrows for example? < 1278286514 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always boxes, you need to put stuff in them later on < 1278286522 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put stuff in boxes, not in circles < 1278286530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, but you put stuff in circles in state diagrams! < 1278286544 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those circles are merely labeled < 1278286549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1278286934 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would provide 2 views < 1278286943 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for comparison < 1278287049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ? < 1278287080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what are you talking about? < 1278287222 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vgtv.no/?id=31144 :D < 1278287366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I can't parse the Norwegian < 1278287375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "vannkrig" < 1278287379 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vattenkrig < 1278287381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and why is there a huge black box there < 1278287390 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black box is the video containing the funny < 1278287395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, flash? < 1278287400 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1278287414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks if he can extract the *.flv < 1278287476 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're overdoing it < 1278287488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, they dropped flash for amd64 again < 1278287490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *shrug* < 1278287501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, there is absolutely nothing I can do < 1278287504 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your browser can't run 32-bit plugins on 64-bit? < 1278287523 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure I actually have 32-bit flash on my 64-bit system < 1278287524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it can't run security risks either. It is too paranoid for that. < 1278287825 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278287905 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278287910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: about my idea of visual debugger for dummies < 1278287962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278287991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ?? < 1278287999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what idea is this? < 1278288072 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i described it few minutes ago < 1278288085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, which lines < 1278288120 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278288121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh up there < 1278288124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, meh < 1278288135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.07.04 15:18:09 < 1278288147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, two views how? < 1278288153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I don't get that < 1278288173 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would show how memory looks in two ways < 1278288190 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one - 1d array of addressed cells < 1278288200 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and second - boxes with arrows < 1278288203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1278288212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and what if I pass you a void* ? < 1278288218 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278288227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, details details ;f < 1278288239 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a dot? :D < 1278288244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, or what if I pass you a intptr_t < 1278288264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one can reasonably be expected to not be quite what it seems like < 1278288275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh also function pointers should be fun < 1278288284 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1278288297 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be for basic education < 1278288308 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have a clue that function pointers exist :D < 1278288321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, qsort() ? < 1278288331 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1278288337 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no qsort < 1278288342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not C then < 1278288354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what ISO says < 1278288366 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about simple subset of C that has structures and pointers < 1278288371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1278288372 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions < 1278288376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some basic types < 1278288380 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to explain the idea < 1278288395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, *((float*)&myint) < 1278288430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is a bad idea in general, use unions and rely on a slightly more reliable non-standard conforming behaviour < 1278288439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1278288454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that way the alias analysis won't end up all confused < 1278288483 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1278288492 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278288557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, C without all these kind of strange corners and hacks would be no fun at all < 1278288603 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they get the general idea they are able to understand these hacks in the real C < 1278288686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, whiteboard. Try it. I think it worked on the other students < 1278288753 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would like to give them a toy so that they would be able to experiment at home < 1278288790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, wget gcc? < 1278288791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1278288808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, also if they are using windows shit: every university seems to have MSDNAA < 1278288809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1278288838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck I have MSDNAA through university < 1278288839 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278288859 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither gcc nor msvc EXPLAIN what happens during the execution < 1278288891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, gdb! < 1278288897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278288903 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb is extremely confusing for newbies < 1278288906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not explains as such < 1278288914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like can be threatened to tell you < 1278288918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reluctantly < 1278288920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278288943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, iirc the msvc debugger was very graphical and such < 1278288955 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1278288960 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not enough < 1278288961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278288968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, yeah MSVC doesn't do C99 < 1278288979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so utter utter fail < 1278289051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders multiclassing in nwn < 1278289121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvl 10 human true neutral fighter. Multiclassing with some class able to cast magic < 1278289122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1278289123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278289237 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nwn huh < 1278289242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278289250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, neverwinter nights < 1278289301 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i know < 1278289307 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played that few years ago < 1278289320 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278289345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, any hints on multiclassing? < 1278289358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, first time I played it < 1278289412 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i don't remember anything < 1278289416 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278289957 0 :Guest45042!~beloved@188-221-182-171.zone12.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1278289972 0 :Guest45042!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anybody in here? < 1278290001 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278290032 0 :Guest45042!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278291491 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1030623 < 1278291497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awesome < 1278291499 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy parsing < 1278291551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278291567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pus indeed < 1278291615 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it was a first test < 1278291626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of my ultimate stupidness machine < 1278291730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1278291900 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually it's fretty useful atm < 1278291905 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty* < 1278292128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge progress was made < 1278292301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, a large percentage of figures in books, games, movies and so on, can be nicely put into one of the classical D&D alignments < 1278292316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while very few "real-world" persons can < 1278292329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, alise: ever noticed that? < 1278292349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278292372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this means we are rather bad at inventing realistic stories < 1278292375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that reality is boring < 1278292382 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278292382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect both < 1278292389 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278292401 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think stories are unrealistic for a reason, yeah < 1278292410 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1278292431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alise is _definitely_ some chaotic alignment < 1278292442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic neutral I think < 1278292442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278292475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, you... I couldn't put an alignment on < 1278292518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F < 1278292539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I always liked playing true neutral in games where you can select that. Though that doesn't mean I am true neutral myself < 1278292544 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's ... not human? < 1278292546 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever ... ;| < 1278292574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, iirc non-sapient beings in D&D are true neutral? < 1278292610 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-human != non-sapient ... but of course D&D includes non-human species anyways, like elves and stuff (right?) < 1278292628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes < 1278292635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and they can have alignment afaik < 1278292640 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm... bedtime < 1278292644 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'ya < 1278292667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1278292682 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bedtime here too, but I refuse to sleep instead of watching doctor who < 1278292744 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278292907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga is chaotic good < 1278292910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is boring preist < 1278292924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*priest < 1278292979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people here are chaotic < 1278293006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :priest? < 1278293008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah :P < 1278293022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is lawful good, but there's some chaotic in him too... < 1278293024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not familiar with these alignments - what am I? < 1278293029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh yes I agree on that < 1278293031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's lawful good but not a goody-gooder < 1278293034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_%28Dungeons_&_Dragons%29 < 1278293040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{lawful,neutral,chaotic} {good,neutral,evil} < 1278293050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawful good = obvious < 1278293051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be said: lawful good != lawful stupid. < 1278293058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawful neutral = gray hat < 1278293064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawful evil = CEO < 1278293076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral good = um... this one doesn't make so much sense < 1278293079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral = booring < 1278293088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so I'm true neutral then? < 1278293090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278293090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral evil = legally grey, morally black < 1278293101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic good = oklopol < 1278293112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic neutral = barbarian :P < 1278293119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic evil = the joker < 1278293130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good summary < 1278293135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you need examples for all < 1278293148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, good enough to explain :P < 1278293157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes but I want an example for neutral evil < 1278293164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun :P < 1278293195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and I can't classify you, don't know you well enough < 1278293199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawful good = Superman, Chaotic good = Batman. < 1278293200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278293203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral evil is, literally, someone who has a regular respect for the law... could steal if they had a really, really good reason to < 1278293209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deep down they're evil < 1278293212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very realistic class < 1278293222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. < 1278293223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, chaotic good = robin hood < 1278293224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral is basically "normal person" < 1278293229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think that one is even better < 1278293230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Another good example. < 1278293235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many actual altruists who would make sacrifices < 1278293238 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm neutral/lawful good < 1278293239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic is a bad name, really < 1278293248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you probably aren't good < 1278293255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others. < 1278293255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that was nasty ;P < 1278293255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Evil implies harming, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient or if it can be set up. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some malevolent deity or master. < 1278293255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. < 1278293267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278293271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that good is almost never found outside of fiction < 1278293274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good side of neutral, yes < 1278293274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1278293279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good? ais523 is the only example i've seen < 1278293282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I definitely feel like a true neutral a lot of the time < 1278293284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per those definitions < 1278293289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1278293304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely chaotic, I don't really care about the law much at all < 1278293307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree ais is definitely lawful good < 1278293313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only what i consider moral < 1278293320 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, maybe rather neutral than good < 1278293320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes you are chaotic in every sense of the word < 1278293321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to be chaotic good, but I'm probably chaotic neutral < 1278293329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, chaotic neutral *definitely* < 1278293336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said chaotic good before :P < 1278293339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no wait < 1278293340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said neutral < 1278293342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i agree then < 1278293342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yep < 1278293355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, batman may be closer to chaotic neutral < 1278293358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can be pretty vicious < 1278293364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or as tv tropes put it: totally unpredictable lunatic < 1278293371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic neutral that is < 1278293375 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to be Chaotic Good, hut I'm more Lawful Neutral < 1278293376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the adam west batman was ... not chaotic < 1278293392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adam west? < 1278293393 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe "like to be" is the wrong phrase < 1278293395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think I lean towards the good side, though < 1278293401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ever try to hurt someone < 1278293404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_%28TV_series%29 < 1278293407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that made batman famous < 1278293412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe somewhat < 1278293417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thedarkknight.matthewclose.co.uk/AdamwestBatman.jpg < 1278293423 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1278293428 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADAM WEST < 1278293436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah highlights 'adam west' < 1278293457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1278293457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sadly, "ham" is not an alignment. < 1278293464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat. < 1278293464 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about Batman all day long < 1278293464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wut? < 1278293472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: What about the night???? < 1278293486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so what is your alignment? < 1278293488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dream of Batman. < 1278293489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278293490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, ^ < 1278293494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn tab < 1278293494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, TeX syntax is very unsuited to keyword arguments < 1278293506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah is ... hmm < 1278293515 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M BATMAN < 1278293520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oerjan is chaotic I think < 1278293520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say for sure < 1278293526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah doesn't seem chaotic, not really < 1278293533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might be a dirty pirate but... < 1278293540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral, I guess < 1278293546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true neutral? < 1278293551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan isn't chaotic, when has oerjan ever broken the law? < 1278293557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's cackly, yes, but that's just irc :P < 1278293560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh hm good point. < 1278293567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd call oerjan another true neutral < 1278293571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like me? < 1278293574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Complete Scoundrel sourcebook Batman, Dick Tracy and Indiana Jones are cited as examples of lawful good characters." < 1278293579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly an adam west watcher < 1278293583 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i26.tinypic.com/t7iujq.jpg < 1278293592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yet you said true neutral was boring. You never considered oerjan boring? < 1278293597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well no < 1278293602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, edgecases < 1278293605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Examples of Neutral Good characters include Zorro, and Spider-Man." < 1278293610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spider-man is less lawful than batman? < 1278293612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this page is an abomination < 1278293642 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Batman is of every alignment < 1278293643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://i26.tinypic.com/t7iujq.jpg <- hah < 1278293706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moriarty is badass < 1278293742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who else would kick a man for eating ice cream?" XD < 1278293760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278293784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lara Croft, Lucy Westenra from Dracula and Han Solo in his early Star Wars appearance are neutral." < 1278293806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree about Han Solo in the first half of the first movie < 1278293811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(produced that is) < 1278293846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, he is a mercenary basically. They tend to be neutral, possibly even true neutral < 1278293859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe lawful neutral *shrug* < 1278293867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic evil is awesome < 1278293882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, too destructive for my taste < 1278293889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic good is a bit rubbish, it's just antihero < 1278293892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and antihero is way too overdone < 1278293892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, neutral evil however is awesome < 1278293893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by now < 1278293897 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have this handy map : http://membres.multimania.fr/bewulf/Divers9/The_Planescape_Multiverse_by_zen79.jpg < 1278293899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but chaotic evil is the Joker < 1278293902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic evil destroys the universe < 1278293908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, chaotic good is hero as well. Robin Hood for example < 1278293924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1278293942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I would say anti-hero is in some neutral < 1278293947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Detective-33-Bat.png "...Literally!" < 1278294107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, I found "dungeons and lolcats" when googling -_- < 1278294121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Batbed.png <-- not homoerotic whatsoever. Nope. < 1278294129 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : link < 1278294147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, it isn't even very good < 1278294151 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every adoptive parent sleep with their orphans, doncha know? < 1278294257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, IMO it is piss poor, but see http://splinteredportals.com/cat_alignment/ if you are really interested < 1278294296 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lolcats became pisspoor a long time ago. < 1278294304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278294311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LoLcats" < 1278294315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a lolcat, it's a LoLcat < 1278294321 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laugh out loud cats < 1278294325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://splinteredportals.com/cat_alignment/5_true_neutral.jpg How is that true neutral at all? < 1278294330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, exactly < 1278294334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was piss poor < 1278294438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what to add to leaden. Actual UI, perhaps?!?! < 1278294448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indentation? Oh, the possibilities. < 1278294498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent.py gets its own file because indentation logic is pretty damn complex. < 1278294519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, how many lines before of context do you need to determine the next line's indentation... < 1278294521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess just one. < 1278294560 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278294561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this image was good though (not lolcats but still awesome): http://vampjac.com/lj/humor/gygax/multiclassing.jpg < 1278294577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, that would have made lotr like 50 times better. < 1278294579 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: omg are you writing your editor in python? < 1278294584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D < 1278294626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is that a sin? I don't like Python, but I can't think of anything else that it'd be nice and easy to use gtk from and do stuff like this. < 1278294628 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278294652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Fuck Mordor... I have a nuclear bomb and a large swath of open desert. You in?" < 1278294660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278294708 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278294709 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : Good guy, bad guy, I'm the one with a gun < 1278294766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278294801 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you don't like it, I would say that it is indeed might be a sin < 1278294833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Why did you say it? < 1278294862 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't like python either < 1278294951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how would you write a short little program that uses gtk? < 1278295024 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question... I have only used any substantial amounts of gtk from C < 1278295151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and, as you know, that is painful < 1278295182 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but won't that part be exactly as painful from python, with the added pain of python itself? < 1278295188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, C as such is painful < 1278295211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but python's GC is really wtf < 1278295256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so wikipedia is down < 1278295264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gobject < 1278295267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes c ten times more painful < 1278295272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, because python actually has an object system < 1278295281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pygtk hides gobject inside it < 1278295325 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay, maybe python is ... appropriate for this case < 1278295359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not all that painful as long as you don't try and do anything clever :P < 1278295560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i basically treat it as a cleaned up pascal that calls namespaces "classes" < 1278295584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has weird structure initialisation syntax < 1278295599 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! maybe that's just the problem... trying to be smart in python doesn't work, so you have to keep it down to python's level < 1278295608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty danged weird initialisation syntax. < 1278295647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: precisely < 1278295655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, every namespace contains one and only one structure < 1278295662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you initialise the structure by function-calling the namespace < 1278295663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1278295675 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... very much time for bed now, work starts in <7h < 1278295680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then functions in the namespace that take the structure can be called with the syntax: < 1278295682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.bar() < 1278295683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning < 1278295685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really don't get why Python doesn't do TCO. < 1278295687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespace.bar(foo) < 1278295697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: basically you have to put yourself in guido's shoes < 1278295699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works perfectly < 1278295709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is basically an ffi with control structures :P < 1278295734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i have only one if statement in my entire editor < 1278295738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no loops < 1278295747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite an achievement < 1278295753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pretty danged weird initialisation syntax. <-- you mean the __init__ ? < 1278295761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ARGH ARGH ARGH < 1278295768 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, python code usually ends up quite loopy < 1278295771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Python's use of underscores. < 1278295772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or what do you mean? < 1278295781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh agreed < 1278295790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you treat classes as namespaces with one structure in them < 1278295797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the C code in me feel like there's a lot of almost-guaranteed-to-break magic going on. < 1278295798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the initialisation syntax makes absolutely no sense whatsoever :P < 1278295801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but fuck newlib headers then. I swear I saw a tripple-underscore somewhere there < 1278295805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was in time.h < 1278295807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1278295808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have C code in you? < 1278295814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coder. < 1278295863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a very simple python indentation function < 1278295892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues editing leaden in leaden < 1278295900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it already < 1278295921 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it's already the editor equivalent of a self-hosting compiler < 1278295926 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice work < 1278295944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, it has not a single ui element other than an editor window opened to a preset source file and a scrollbar < 1278295959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that editor (just a gtk sourceview) is set to auto-indent (dumbly; just repeating the last line's indentation), and syntax highlight < 1278295974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it automatically saves the file to disk on every keypress (this is a feature) and automatically reloads the file on any outside change < 1278295981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1278295992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlimited undo. < 1278296036 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not yet VCS:ed undo? < 1278296046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the plan is that Ctrl+S is a vcs commit < 1278296055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saving is completely automatic < 1278296068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationale: i can never make myself use vcses, but saving is easy, so just make a vcs the save functionality < 1278296071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada, versioned filesystem < 1278296073 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool :) < 1278296083 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I shall finally go and sleep now < 1278296085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1278296404 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278296613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then the initialisation syntax makes absolutely no sense whatsoever :P <-- you mean the __init__ right? < 1278296616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or which part? < 1278296625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we treat "class Foo(object):" < 1278296628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as defining a namespace Foo < 1278296632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1278296634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing one unnamed structure < 1278296645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is how I code python because it lets you treat it as a strange, cleaned-up pascal with nice libraries) < 1278296649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead of a godawful language) < 1278296652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Foo() is a really weird syntax < 1278296654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I agree a class is a namespace. I thought python did modules as namespaces < 1278296657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new Foo.struct, yes < 1278296658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo(), no < 1278296663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's about how you think about it < 1278296669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat python classes as /classes/, it's the worst OOP ever < 1278296680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, namespaces don't tend to have a self pointer < 1278296684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you treat them as namespaces that are also the only way to define structures, and the structure definition is somehow implicit < 1278296686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all makes more sense < 1278296688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they don't < 1278296695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__init__ is just a special namespace method, given a newly-created structure < 1278296698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(often called "self") < 1278296701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then sets up this structure < 1278296705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the rest are just functions taking that structure < 1278296714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you call the structure parameter "self" but that's not required < 1278296716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1278296718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also some weird sugar < 1278296724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structure.foo() is namespace_of_structure.foo(structure) < 1278296726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird is that? < 1278296729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: all of this is actually true) < 1278296740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from literally being namespaces) < 1278296742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you consider it, C++ actually do it something like that too < 1278296747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally I mean < 1278296752 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278296753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but python has it explicit < 1278296762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you just treat it as a really strange language where structures are implicit < 1278296762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes that is an important difference < 1278296770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1278296774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works really well, using classes for namespaces < 1278296783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's how you're supposed to do python, rather than actually separating concerns < 1278296880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i /think/ i just wrote a tab handler < 1278296886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "leaden.py", line 66 < 1278296887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if at start of line: < 1278296887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1278296887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1278296887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1278296912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "at start of line" is only valid in "Plain English" I bet < 1278296916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1278296969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1278297066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy Fucking Shit, it WORKS! < 1278297073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does? < 1278297179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like everything about Python, but I think the way that classes work is not too bad < 1278297240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way they work on the C side... < 1278297242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NASTY < 1278297244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a PNG file of the example Icochash file that I posted before: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/icochash.png < 1278297244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, agree? < 1278297253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ever looked at python internals on the C side? < 1278297274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know a bit about them < 1278297275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, make it render with tex. will look way nicer < 1278297275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrid < 1278297276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I certainly didn't. I only programmed some card games in Python, that's about it < 1278297289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: render a living form with TeX? < 1278297292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's computerised < 1278297294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a webpage to me < 1278297300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rendered in some textual browser or perhaps vonkeror < 1278297302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I might make it render with TeX some day later. It would be nicer for sure < 1278297304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1278297312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it looks like a bitmap font < 1278297318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all ugly < 1278297320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well i imagine zzo38 uses a bitmap font. < 1278297323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1278297324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278297326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1278297331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does use windows after all, windowsers prior to vista tended to < 1278297334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least at small sizes < 1278297343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, windows xp didn't < 1278297344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1278297345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1278297346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, i broke it < 1278297348 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-173.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278297354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, outside cmd.exe < 1278297356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The picture I have is rendered using icochash_img using the default settings. It does support TTF and PostScript fonts as well. < 1278297375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have Windows, I will later have Linux instead < 1278297385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, tried colinux? < 1278297405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, but that is irrelevant. When I get a new computer I will put Linux. < 1278297423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you know about colinux though? < 1278297485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes I know some things about it < 1278297518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I get new computer I will put Linux and write a Linux distribution. < 1278297531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could dual boot < 1278297553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No I can't dual boot I have server programs running on my computer < 1278297584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278297611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ this < 1278297647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, the bitmap font thing was really, really bad with Japanese... < 1278297659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese looks eye-clawingly bad with bitmap fonts. < 1278297685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtff @ this < 1278297691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to debug my editor, eh, eh! < 1278297697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What editor? < 1278297701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my text editor < 1278297716 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the codes? < 1278297721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/samples/MSMincho__Japanese.gif See that? < 1278297724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is *ugly*. < 1278297805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icochash_img just renders the completed forms as .png file, it won't edit the forms. To edit the data on the forms you need to edit the .chs file with a text editor. < 1278297838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icochash has a similarity to Icoruma in that they both use one file for common functions and then separate files to render and format in different ways. < 1278297855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You, you want to debug my text editor! < 1278297892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Wait, what the FUCK/ < 1278297894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FUCK? < 1278297925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1278297936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1278297951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1278297966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, I will employ you in happiness if you fix my indentation routines :P < 1278297974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work, just... not very well. < 1278298005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so what did the old 8-bit Japanese games use? < 1278298021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: English or *just katakana*. < 1278298037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, katakana? < 1278298044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :katakana is what japanese uses to romanise < 1278298045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1278298049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278298050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we romanise stuff and the like < 1278298054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and steal lonewords < 1278298055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Katakana is the syllabary used primarily for foreign words. < 1278298058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pikhq said < 1278298059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said it craply < 1278298094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also used for emphasis, to note that you're writing out the on'yomi (Chinese reading) of some character, or to sound robotic. < 1278298111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last part comes because old computers and video game systems only used katakana. < 1278298148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason for *this* is because it's the easiest to render on limited graphics. < 1278298188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Say, there's no way to keep state in CPP, right? Like, at all? < 1278298189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‚łă¬ă€€ăŹă€€ă‚«ă‚żă‚«ăŠă€€ă‡ă‚ąă€‚ カăłă‚żăłă‹ă€€ă¨ăˇă«ă€ă€€ăŤďĽź < 1278298192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for example < 1278298195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between macro invocations. Relying on C behaviour is accepted. < 1278298204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I'm doing a coroutine/finite state machine thing. < 1278298209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need a duff's device thing. < 1278298211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Absolutely none at all. < 1278298213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it so that you can write < 1278298215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yield(x) < 1278298216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does < 1278298222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state++; return x; case (LAST_CASE_WE_MADE)+1: < 1278298232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then how does that tiny little "threads" library do it? < 1278298240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are programs that do somewhat similar things as Icochash, such as PCGEN, but other programs have bad designs in my opinion, also Icochash is not quite the same thing, it is a bit different < 1278298276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/coroutines.html < 1278298276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you say "case var:"? < 1278298281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, but that has an extra param. < 1278298293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can say "case var:", can't you? But it'll be the value of var at the start of the switch, right? < 1278298315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't have an extra param. < 1278298320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define crReturn(i,x) do { state=i; return x; case i:; } while (0) < 1278298322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, so does. < 1278298328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look further down. < 1278298334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cheats by using the __LINE__ macro. < 1278298341 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1278298345 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you good with computer games < 1278298348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1278298355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about that thing by the contiki guy? < 1278298359 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1278298359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Good as in playing them? < 1278298362 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1278298369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No, I'm shit. But I enjoy it. Why? < 1278298379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works so long as you don't stick multiple crReturns on a line. < 1278298387 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dare you to complete this one: http://www.indiegames.com/features/index.php?c=ex&y=2009&gid=20 < 1278298387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, that stuff? < 1278298389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1278298393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Isn't there a __CHAR__? < 1278298401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1278298401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, can you find that thread impl? I've been unable to. < 1278298451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sics.se/~adam/pt/ < 1278298461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protothreads, as used in Contiki < 1278298488 0 :AndChat-!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278298572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no __CHAR__ :( < 1278298607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define LC_SET(s) s = __LINE__; case __LINE__: < 1278298607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh! < 1278298618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can use labels as values for it too. < 1278298620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1278298647 0 :AndChat-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278298658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still uses __LINE__, though < 1278298693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Standard-Predefined-Macros.html < 1278298695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing more fine-grained. < 1278298768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1278298769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define fsm static int _s=0;switch(s){case 0: < 1278298769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define yield(x) do{state=__LINE__;return(x);case __LINE__:}while(0) < 1278298941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is how it works. < 1278298995 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278299204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it means it doesn't work if you put yield(x) twice in one line < 1278299479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, I just implemented coroutine-threads in C. < 1278299480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was... easy. < 1278299618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that IRCing on the go may not be that easy < 1278299647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was pretty much my main reason for disparaging iOS4. Oh, actually, let me ask someone with experience: alise, can you multitask an IRC client with iOS4? < 1278299674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used iOS; still on iPhone OS 3. I thought iOS could multitask anything? < 1278299686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with its high-falutin' high-falutinness. < 1278299703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought there were 7 multitask APIs or something? < 1278299715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows. < 1278299718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer: probably. < 1278299722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other answer: don't buy an iPhone. < 1278299740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever I mention AT&T, people ask why I didn't just get an iPhone < 1278299743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Low-level tricks do help with that, yeah. < 1278299771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah -- low level tricks like static variables and switch. < 1278299781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, they're partially right, but not for the reason of an iPhone. < 1278299785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is that AT&T is shit. < 1278299790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stop fucking caring what other people think already. < 1278299812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is more likely: That, over time, Android gets an iPhone level of polish, or, that over time, Apple eases up on its nuttiness? < 1278299821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think I care what you think a bit too much < 1278299826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple have been getting more nutty, not less. < 1278299831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You care what others think, too. < 1278299840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I try and provide justification to believe what I say :P < 1278300079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.acooke.org/lepl/ ~ from our favourite andrew cooke in the universe < 1278300103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fantasizes about Android with Apple-like polish < 1278300113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there are cracks in the polish. < 1278300118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe me. i've used it since 2007. < 1278300125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's three years of using it. < 1278300143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Such as? < 1278300146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a reason i've gone from a devoted apple user to an arch linux user < 1278300162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's that one, the polish is mostly superficial: sure, it's pretty and the animations glide, but the user interfaces do not fit together < 1278300177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple used to do UI design; now they do graphic design, and just avoid even creating a UI < 1278300180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: C switch is a low-level trick. :) < 1278300187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Sgeo, when pressing around it will all fade and slide < 1278300194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't be smooth to use, it won't be polished to operate < 1278300244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much how I feel about Android's BACK button < 1278300255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the iPhone doesn't have a back button. < 1278300258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel lucky < 1278300272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No back button may be better than an inconsistant one < 1278300280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't press it. < 1278300300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe me, the iPhone may be prettier, but the user experience is NOT as polished as you think: and it certainly isn't good enough to support the tyranny. < 1278300319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android is flawed, but so is the iPhone; Android wins by virtue of the iPhone being run by a megalomaniacal dictator. < 1278300384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that my reasons for using Windows may be similar to a reason to get the iPhone < 1278300399 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that, in the case of Windows, there were already specific programs that I wanted to run, that put me over the edge < 1278300405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the iPhone, no such thing < 1278300469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders py2exe < 1278300496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If py2exe fixes a broken program, then that's probably a bug in py2exe that needs to be fixed!" < 1278300513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you can't seriously have off tomorrow, can you? < 1278300528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No; why would you think that? < 1278300536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you're still up. < 1278300540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, shut up. < 1278300638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, crud, py2exe wants to require users to have a dll < 1278300653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go to bed soon, I swear. < 1278301088 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://piratedate.com < 1278301092 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something for you alise < 1278301129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is that. < 1278301199 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pirate date. < 1278301203 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to date pirates, arrrr! < 1278301209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1278301215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to go to bed, stop talking < 1278301265 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278301266 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do < 1278301269 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's stop talking. < 1278301283 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's let our bodies talk. < 1278301351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... shut up. < 1278301462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dgfgf < 1278301651 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g adfg adfg adfg a < 1278301656 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't go to fucking sleep < 1278301658 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is impossible < 1278302381 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.1/+bug/451801 < 1278302391 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems glasgow isn't the only thing that canonic fucked up < 1278302397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT THE FUCK UP I HAVE TO BE UP AT 9:30 < 1278302577 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you not in bed then, little thing? < 1278302601 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you are in a bed? < 1278302608 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in *my* bed? < 1278302616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps cheater99  < 1278302686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps cheater99. < 1278302690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk on Monday. < 1278302692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1278302696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1278302697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278302712 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278304063 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278304426 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278305363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278305552 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278305620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you play this game instead? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXTO.ZIP < 1278305649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hints: < 1278305675 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Don't just do everything without thinking about it at first, or else you will get stuck < 1278305707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what does one play it with on x86_64 linux < 1278305726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also did you know linux has a 91% market share? < 1278305731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for supercomputers < 1278305732 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you are willing to compile the source yourself: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/megazeux_src.zip < 1278305751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what genre is it < 1278305763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arcade and I skip < 1278305805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want compiled binaries: http://vault.digitalmzx.net/show.php?id=1675 (not recomended because of various bugs and missing features) < 1278305817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genre is just multiple things. It is not a arcade-style game < 1278305827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, puzzle? that is out too < 1278305833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about all I could like is RPG atm < 1278305862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have some puzzles. But it does not consist entirely of puzzles < 1278305869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, RPG? < 1278305874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Sorry. < 1278305882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278305885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might look tomorrow < 1278305932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else? < 1278306373 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278306497 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278308740 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot win this game without *all* of these hints: < 1278308750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Save the game state often, and in multiple files. < 1278308757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Don't just do everything without thinking about it at first, or else you will get stuck < 1278308776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Don't just shoot everything and everyone, or else you will run out of ammunition and you won't get a very good score < 1278308836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pay attention to the game, and perhaps look at the source code for MegaZeux for help about what some objects means? < 1278308873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Use the money effectively. < 1278308879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278308909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The goal is to find the purple keys < 1278308958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Don't run into everything that you can get hurt, or else you will run out of health points < 1278309026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Some of the puzzles are confusing so please make sure you know what something means! < 1278309074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* At the end of the game you will find BIG_MONSTER < 1278309113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, then, there is also a sequel to this game but I am not finished making the sequel game yet. < 1278310162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which game do you prefer, the first one, or the sequel game? < 1278311053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278311345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278311366 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278311372 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1278311516 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278311821 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278312277 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278312390 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278313471 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278315040 0 :Vegabondmx!~Vegabonds@unaffiliated/vegabondsx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278315041 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1278316799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278316800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278317964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278318818 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278318955 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278321550 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-jmsknhslgzxvtvaa JOIN :#esoteric < 1278322581 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278322909 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278323181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278328660 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278329311 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278329327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gulp < 1278329536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278329702 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-173.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278330099 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278330144 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1278330285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: plug < 1278330349 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :socket < 1278330405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tekcos < 1278330433 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coteks < 1278330508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. sketoc < 1278330747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skurnak! < 1278330994 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh weird < 1278331001 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had the taste of butane in my mouth < 1278331181 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Butane? Isn't that gas in room temperature? < 1278331189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasnt real < 1278331200 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a misinterpretation < 1278331519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278331637 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278332375 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278333556 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278335722 0 :Slereah_!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278335802 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278336833 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278336874 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-jbcdtnzmvywbdpfu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278338009 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278338696 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278338857 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278339281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, how do you even know the taste of butane? < 1278340022 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h170.11.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278340089 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278340119 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-zkbgfpqnbklahicb JOIN :#esoteric < 1278340256 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278340262 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-bpiecxgqvcijmvyg JOIN :#esoteric < 1278340374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what most people call taste is really just smell. < 1278340434 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278340467 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278342432 0 :teuchter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-puljuypuoxwhtthh JOIN :#esoteric < 1278342438 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278343329 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278343649 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278344134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smell doesn't affect taste in any way < 1278344140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me at least < 1278344155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urban legend, says i < 1278344709 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278346464 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278347291 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278347421 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278347729 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278348391 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-46-244.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278348731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: what most people call taste is really just smell. <-- oh so you meant smell then < 1278348972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1278348980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like #irp been reddited < 1278348985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1278349143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world will never tire of ti < 1278349144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1278349353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my game? < 1278349829 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278349856 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278350723 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278351225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my game? Did you try this game? (See previous log for hints) < 1278351516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played my games? < 1278351654 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is alise holed up for the week again < 1278351870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278351916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes, like the 16 billion previous times you asked < 1278351945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he sometimes comes on in the evening as ehirdiphone, though) < 1278351955 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278352009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is your alignment? < 1278352020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, D&D that is < 1278352024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices he's grumpy and should eat something < 1278352076 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't instantiate "something" with anything. :-> < 1278352077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed y'all seemed to conjecture true neutral... < 1278352135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"something" just means "there is such thing as". Randomly chosen thing probably does not qualify. < 1278352141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure it's either that or neutral good. < 1278352160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1278352244 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i need to be on the edge with that info < 1278352256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you fail at grammar forever < 1278352258 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you create an rss feed for that please. < 1278352288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I do. :-) < 1278352330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, your nick? chaotic < 1278352335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chaotic evil* even < 1278352352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what info < 1278352362 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether alise is in or out < 1278352379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i'm just playin'. you seem a bit uppity so i'm pulling your leg. < 1278352384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know more about alise than anyone else here who's paying attention. < 1278352398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i _said_ i was grumpy and needed to eat. < 1278352400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1278352401 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't pay attention! < 1278352407 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok enjoy your eat < 1278352409 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyl < 1278352633 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be esolang with large collection of operators with seemingly no connection. Also lot of them used together should be required to reach TC. < 1278352660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*munch* < 1278352918 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278353060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had that idea a million times < 1278353078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's still suffering in the world < 1278353187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if that's what causes the suffering in the world, i suggest you stop. < 1278353294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never looked at it that way < 1278353694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computer-generated set of millions of different commands < 1278353844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the hard part i would think is making all necessary for TC-ness without them being obviously connected < 1278353914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you want to do it well < 1278353938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was more interested in the part where the spec is multiple gigabytes < 1278353945 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278353972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know me, i don't care what's inside as long as it's really big < 1278353978 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278354082 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278354099 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it fractal < 1278354102 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some way < 1278354130 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good way would be to have multiple flags that affect instructions in odd ways (and have strange interactions). < 1278354132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some say how exactly? < 1278354168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1278354198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--use-underlying-field "F_16" < 1278354217 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's F_16? < 1278354230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finite field with 16 elements < 1278354266 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's trace 2 field... Too ordinary. :-) < 1278354282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trace? you mean characteristic? < 1278354302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what was it called... :-/ < 1278354505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should be --use-underlying-ring instead. < 1278354807 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe field size of 3 486 784 401 would be better? < 1278355016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell logBase 3 3486784401 < 1278355025 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19.999999999999996 < 1278355088 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278355261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the trace of a field? < 1278355272 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278355273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sic < 1278355280 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably means characteristic... < 1278355293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt that, maybe i'll check < 1278355297 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1278355371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trace of something is the sum of its conjugates < 1278355434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i actually did remember it was that but minds are not to be trusted) < 1278355456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is familiar with a completely different meaning of the term < 1278355482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the trace of a square matrix is the sum of its diagonal entries) < 1278355600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a major property of this trace is that tr(AB) = tr(BA)) < 1278355706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the sum of conjugates in F_16 would not be called 2 given that 2 = 0 in that field < 1278355853 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 because 2 is too ordinary and 5 (or greater) is too simple. < 1278356087 0 :teuchter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278356223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I first went "airfield?" at that. Since F-16 = aircraft to me. < 1278356225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278356491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol shouldn't have mentioned my games, i'm hooked on bounca again < 1278356532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i thought the trace of an element of a finite field is actually the trace of some matrix < 1278356558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or umm are these traces 0 < 1278356576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the guy who told me this was confusing the meanings < 1278356765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wanna add other kinds of polygons to bounca? i hate programming as you know. < 1278356841 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the right irc network if that's the case... < 1278356981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono i hate programming but i love programmers < 1278357171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, the ball randomly jumps like 10cm from the finish in 16.9 sec, takes like 40 seconds if you actually try to manouver there < 1278357176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably make a new level < 1278358593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my games are so awesome i wish someone else had made them so i wouldn't feel so bad for advertising them. < 1278358691 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278359329 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278359663 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.6/20100625231939] < 1278368118 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278368118 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1278368192 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278368206 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278368292 0 :choochter!~choochter@host213-1-49-233.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278368961 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278369073 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg cya < 1278369074 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278369696 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1278369805 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1278369829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf < 1278369853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles obscurely < 1278370229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really old though < 1278370236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1278370250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i finally found a substitution greeting < 1278370258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been trying to find one since our conversation < 1278370262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you've joined < 1278370266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1278370266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food, again -> < 1278370328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1278370348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to do this well, because somehow a function has to become a question < 1278370632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what oklopol is babbling about. also, *munch* < 1278370660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been trying to write a cksum program for kicks. < 1278370663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hard to do this well, because somehow a function has to become a question <-- to do what well? < 1278370671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor problem: it seems to be borken in ways I cannot tell. < 1278370679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no need. the heirloom one compiles for me on microcosm < 1278370685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CaHQ < 1278370691 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278370695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crc_table.h generated with http://sprunge.us/AZXC < 1278370698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, hi < 1278370699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish This program does not work. < 1278370700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't care. < 1278370700 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thees prugrem dues nut vurk. Bork Bork Bork! < 1278370701 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spectral Spectra. < 1278370705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, #irp was slashdotted < 1278370706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278370708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddited < 1278370711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same shit anyway < 1278370715 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dont care about what? < 1278370717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" really old though" <<< inf as a response to sup is really old < 1278370721 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed. < 1278370724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1278370726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a reasonable cksum program; I don't care that Heirloom has one. < 1278370731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, as in the end results are about the same < 1278370739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing we have a separate channel for it < 1278370740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" at least i finally found a substitution greeting" <<< since we talked about... or was that the only unclear thing? < 1278370775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i was told i talk too fast < 1278370784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has forgotten what we talked about < 1278370788 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I had to go into ultra-asshole mode when #esoteric IRP was redditted < 1278370796 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reddited < 1278370805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. My crc_table appears to differ from what's in the Heirloom cksum binary. < 1278370806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i would've changed about into something else < 1278370812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'd finished the sentence < 1278370813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, like, worse than usual? < 1278370816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1278370824 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IMO heirloom's flaw is caring way too much about history. < 1278370825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway night :) < 1278370834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, different function? < 1278370836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: THIS IS AN RSS MESSAGE: ehirdiphone HAS BEEN OBSERVED < 1278370848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ASS < 1278370848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes. < 1278370851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1278370854 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I said "ultra". Anyway, I've mellowed. < 1278370863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, :P < 1278370863 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just notify the pedo... < 1278370880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've also been comparing against Busybox's cksum. It *appears* to be the same generating function. < 1278370887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1278370887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give or take stylistic differences. < 1278370904 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I even expressed the opinion that everyone edits differently and you just have to find the editor that works for you, yesterday. < 1278370905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: um you're trying to avoid him? < 1278370918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Busybox doesn't have a statically-created crc_table) < 1278370921 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, it's just that he's a pedo :P < 1278370932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who isn't a pedo these days < 1278370948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: thoughts? < 1278370953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: it's just i was joking about how he keeps asking about you, earlier < 1278370987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: this is so cool, now we can have a double-date with our gay lovers < 1278370994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and he requested an rss feed :D) < 1278370997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming augur still has a thing for me < 1278371008 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he's concerned my beautiful prepubescent body of spotlessness, hairlessness and innocence will be damaged < 1278371038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damaged by age? < 1278371045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or oh < 1278371056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait was i gone < 1278371058 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: we could just both date augur, that would be vastly preferable to being in a 1,000 km^2 radius of cheater99 < 1278371067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278371080 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and polyamory is ~all the rage~ < 1278371093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cheater polyamorous? < 1278371099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1278371115 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope not, then I have an easy excuse < 1278371128 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I meant if we both dated augur XD < 1278371133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm oh < 1278371143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i don't know the expression < 1278371177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh soon i shall retry < 1278371216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now -> < 1278371275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait a sec that table's kinda constant. < 1278371282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw it I can just copy the damned thing. < 1278371338 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is angry because she knows she wants me subconsciously < 1278371406 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't. < 1278371458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: nick? < 1278371476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you did you wouldn't know it, it's subconscious duh < 1278371478 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Lazy! But okay. < 1278371482 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aliseiphone < 1278371497 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced: Alih-say-phone < 1278371506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Sometimes you change it, sometimes you didn't. I just didn't know if you'd noticed < 1278371524 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1278371546 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278371549 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaginas < 1278371567 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v. the act of gaining a vagina through metaphysical IRC < 1278371575 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IRC magic. < 1278371593 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaphysical, I tell you. < 1278371604 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic because it's meta. < 1278371607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaphysical: Even more meta than physical < 1278371607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird" isn't a particularly /male/ name < 1278371614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: and what did the physical say? < 1278371626 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*cough* I never met a physical I didn't like.) < 1278371633 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True. < 1278371650 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alise" is unambiguously female, however. < 1278371691 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Also, *don't. < 1278371703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good catch < 1278371720 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone offer to try leaden out when it's ready or I'll die. Of shame. < 1278371771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's leaden? < 1278371778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are you turning into me? < 1278371785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to make the cksum mostly-POSIX. < 1278371799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This consists of: adding support for command line arguments. < 1278371885 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: An awesome editor I'm writing; and no. < 1278371897 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Who needs 'em. < 1278371925 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who even uses cksum, anyway? < 1278371941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Few people. < 1278371970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I'm going "wait a sec, the code for every other implementation of this I could find sucks". < 1278371972 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should totally ask me to explain leaden's design. Cough. :P < 1278371994 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so maybe I *am* turning into Sgeo. < 1278372013 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278372096 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1278372137 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278372140 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1278372269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, does your on-screen keyboard ever freeze up? < 1278372325 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I get a ghost one on top rendering the UI useless. < 1278372337 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stop using me to justify buying an iPhone. < 1278372349 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more obvious questions of such a nature. < 1278372366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never bought an iPhone < 1278372492 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278372575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange news: they found an armed handgrenade at a recycling station in Stockholm this evening < 1278372577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1278372586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems pretty random < 1278372602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random violence < 1278372606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean, placing a hand grenade there being random or me mentioning it? < 1278372611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the sprint was still in < 1278372615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, both < 1278372618 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-253-23-147.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278372646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/JMgb < 1278372648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions? < 1278372657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers, and that can't be good for you." -- The "artist" formerly known as "the artist formerly known as Prince" < 1278372717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://www.dn.se/sthlm/handgranat-hittad-gator-avsparrade-1.1133422 < 1278372717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... GAH WHY IS INDENT=2? < 1278372722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably read it < 1278372724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's mine. < 1278372737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :346126 < 1278372739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they messed up the date there ye < 1278372741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1278372932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/SVRa < 1278372934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. Better. < 1278372950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you want that table static const < 1278372960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, yes I do. < 1278372964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, otherwise it can't be shared between different running instances < 1278373008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is that what he is now known as? < 1278373072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not < 1278373207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is the only implementation of cksum I know of that uses stdio. < 1278373219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Uses stdio *sanely*. < 1278373225 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278373235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each and every other one goes through read or fread for not-much-good-reason. < 1278373262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, they are absurdly faster, but eh. < 1278373286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does your one use? no browser open atm < 1278373298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if it uses fgets() you fail at handling \0 < 1278373303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about stdio_unlocked? or do you consider that insane? < 1278373308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fgetc < 1278373312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AAAGHNONONO < 1278373317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay I would use mmap < 1278373330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with fallback on stdio fread < 1278373332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course you would. < 1278373342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hit a char device or such < 1278373348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any nice compiled imperative languages out there with standard libraries similar to Python's < 1278373349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1278373352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean with that? ;P < 1278373386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278373395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap is pretty retarded on a single iteration through a file. < 1278373415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends. It does IO rather efficiently still < 1278373428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends up being comparable to, oh, *loading the entire file into memory*. < 1278373437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it loads on the fly < 1278373438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though you don't need much more than a buffer. < 1278373457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, linux only loads a few pages ahead of you < 1278373461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it unmaps old pages < 1278373468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mark it with posix_madvice < 1278373469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1278373477 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has just done 500 crunches < 1278373478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1278373479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madvice < 1278373481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... It unmaps old pages *when it would swap stuff out*. < 1278373499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278373504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in favor of using more memory for hardly any benefit. < 1278373506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix_madvise even < 1278373538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix_madvise() with POSIX_MADV_SEQUENTIAL < 1278373580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway I would probably use fread() < 1278373659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's fast enough as is, and I, personally, am in favor of clarity over speed. < 1278373723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION inserts a poisx_fadvise in pikhq's code < 1278373724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madvise sounds like something you shouldn't listen to. < 1278373728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWHAHAHAHA < 1278373738 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like the kind of advice that homeless people always have for you. < 1278373742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You punk. < 1278373774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, me or cheater99? < 1278373813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You. < 1278373818 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1278373822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What benefit does posix_fadvise get you? < 1278373903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, see the man page < 1278373914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *MEASUREMENTS*. < 1278373914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it increases readahead window if you want it < 1278373928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in cksum? probably not much :P < 1278373933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is fun to poke fun at you < 1278373961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I am tempted to check the benefits done by fread. < 1278374040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, good idea < 1278374062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you could use non-blocking reads too, so you can compute stuff while waiting for the DMA buffer to fill < 1278374065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1278374083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -_-' < 1278374088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way leads to Coreutils. < 1278374146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D < 1278374157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, < 1278374158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : POSIX_FADV_WILLNEED initiates a nonblocking read of the specified region into the page cache. The amount of data read may be decreased by the kernel depending < 1278374158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : on virtual memory load. (A few megabytes will usually be fully satisfied, and more is rarely useful.) < 1278374162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay! :P < 1278374187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course just letting kernel do it's usual readahead is probably enough < 1278374249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this is #esoteric. There is no reason whatsoever to _not_ contemplate this < 1278374261 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your cksum sucks. < 1278374267 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bloated. :| < 1278374275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, is it? < 1278374283 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes' < 1278374288 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes! < 1278374305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, how would you write it < 1278374307 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as coreutils go I'm a minimalism nazi. :P < 1278374322 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Something much more like his original paste. < 1278374329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, link? < 1278374339 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find it yourself. < 1278374345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh not worth it < 1278374352 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just after I came in. M < 1278374358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Bloated? I presume you mean "it uses libc", right? < 1278374360 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in. < 1278374376 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, it's just bloated. :P < 1278374377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sinful. I gave money to M. Night Shyamalan. < 1278374381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how secure is login with physical unit to generate a response code? < 1278374388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: How so? < 1278374391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bank < 1278374404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from the absurd error checking... < 1278374415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mmm, correctness) < 1278374445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel weird. I found a practical use for BF < 1278374455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh what is it? < 1278374475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want to learn C#" "Go to this site, it's how I learned" "But you already had some programming experience" < 1278374475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just suggested Python or C < 1278374482 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278374492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "encrypting" a file - not to actually protect the data, but just discourage casual observers. Run the following program, which interestingly enough has each symbol exactly once: +[>,-.<] < 1278374508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it again with s/-/+/ to un"encrypt" it < 1278374539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the BF program is shorter than the equivalent in nearly every other language < 1278374550 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278374552 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current code is short but doesn't clearly express the fundamental idea "compute a CRC32 checksum". Remember, commands are the functions of the Unix OS. < 1278374555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, waitaminute < 1278374557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work < 1278374567 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did you get "Look at your..."? < 1278374569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how BF behaves when it runs out of input < 1278374579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[,-.+] will do it < 1278374585 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sets cell to 0 mostly < 1278374594 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes unchangef < 1278374595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... off-by-one error < 1278374600 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unchangef < 1278374604 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unchanged < 1278374614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[-.,] < 1278374618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: No. < 1278374618 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which my phone autocorrects to unchangef < 1278374626 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1278374631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: what a fantastic phone i must buy one now < 1278374632 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, I see. < 1278374638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look at your..." ? < 1278374674 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Look at your original code. That expressed your intent incredibly clearly. Strip useless options. Get rid of the, yes, absurd error checking. < 1278374677 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current code is short but doesn't clearly express the fundamental idea "compute a CRC32 checksum". Remember, commands are the functions of the Unix OS. < 1278374678 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y < 1278374692 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That's what I said. < 1278374710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Okay, so screw the error checking that I added on a bizarre whim. < 1278374729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone tends to be anti-feature though (j/k) < 1278374737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can keep the fopen error checking. < 1278374738 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And functions shouldn't have unneccessary cruft. When writing functions, how many flags do they have? < 1278374743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise? Pffft. < 1278374746 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, very few. < 1278374767 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You nest (pipe) functions (commands) instead. < 1278374780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: POSIX requires the argument. < 1278374788 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, do try and remove all flags that significantly complicate your code. < 1278374804 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: POSIX compliance is an amusing fiction. < 1278374815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And almost all UNIXes implement that. < 1278374818 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing actually *uses* cksum(1). < 1278374821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Heirloom. < 1278374829 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fine, fine. < 1278374848 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separate the code common to the arguments. Say into a function. < 1278374856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does so < 1278374876 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if(flag)" in actually-computing code is lame. :P < 1278374897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Look at your original code. That expressed your intent incredibly clearly. Strip useless options. Get rid of the, yes, absurd error checking. < 1278374898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1278374916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correctness is less important than simplicity? < 1278374920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, yes or no? < 1278374935 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, I do wonder if the octets blab might better belong in the BUGS section of cksum.1. < 1278374940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, yes or no? < 1278374942 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For Unix? Yes. < 1278374953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, no < 1278374954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1278374959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: It probably does. < 1278374974 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Go fuck Multics. < 1278374982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, lovely system < 1278374991 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Point made. < 1278375008 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work properly, was one minor flaw. < 1278375045 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a truly correct C program. Ha! < 1278375045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, which one? < 1278375061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, that would be awesome. But I suggest using haskell or such for that < 1278375083 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, I suggest removing the libc dependency and rewriting it in PDP-11 assembly. < 1278375096 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a truly correct haskell program??? < 1278375099 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1278375106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: :P < 1278375113 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly you know nothing of haskell :) < 1278375130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this is coming out much more nicely. < 1278375138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the sanity check, aliseiphone. < 1278375161 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just call me "Ultimate Genius, Lord Over Everything". < 1278375166 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I ask for. < 1278375197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/ZWTV < 1278375204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1278375251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't compile though XD < 1278375270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/else {/} else {/ < 1278375282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/name/argv[1]/ < 1278375306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, yes, hello world in haskell, ought to be truly correct quite easily < 1278375318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you meant non-trivial then say so < 1278375367 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Additional, nitpicking suggestions: Put the CRC function first; the UI is cruft, not the important bit; try and reduce the nesting of the UI logic; and use "!strcmp" rather than "strcmp(...) == 0". But these are minutiae; the code is great. < 1278375381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*argh* < 1278375386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE BUGS < 1278375397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Other than the bugs < 1278375398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278375404 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you ever considered being less of a pedant in informal conversation? It's a nice social lubricant. < 1278375416 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As long as it *looks* elegant! < 1278375421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Hah. < 1278375513 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I must figure out how to write a truly elegant ls(1). It has so many interacting flags, but separating these into programs seems near-impossible! < 1278375537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, you are officially being an idiot or a troll now < 1278375540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one I wonder < 1278375599 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278375644 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh? And which line made you decide this? < 1278375651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : One day I must figure out how to write a truly elegant ls(1). It has so many interacting flags, but separating these into programs seems near-impossible! < 1278375656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, that one :P < 1278375689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, and ls without colour I won't use. I find the coloured output very very useful < 1278375692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1278375719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: Oh, how I wish that I could return a tuple in C. < 1278375720 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are free to note that I can write ls(1) perfectly well, that a version with limited flags is very easy to make truly elegant, and that I have a very stringent definition of "trule elegant". < 1278375736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trule :) < 1278375754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, return struct on stack < 1278375758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, return one *and pattern match*. < 1278375763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278375770 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, I don't, never have, and never will give a damn about whether you will use my coreutils or not. Especially as I know you won't from the get-go. < 1278375771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try haskell or erlang < 1278375785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patterns are no match for C < 1278375791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, -_- < 1278375797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZVMh < 1278375798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam. < 1278375798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was truly awful < 1278375817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta keep you on your toes < 1278375818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's the original one aliseiphone hated? < 1278375832 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thats the old one :P < 1278375833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... ? < 1278375837 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That's < 1278375838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: OH < 1278375846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278375856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme get the right thing in the pastebuffer. < 1278375857 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster speaks in a foreign language :P < 1278375860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/GGWP < 1278375873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: inte omöjligt < 1278375889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, instämmer med föregĂĄende Norske talare < 1278375891 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in a pub :F < 1278375896 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have crc's prototype right before its definition. < 1278375902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1278375906 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is... interestingly superfluous. < 1278375908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: ... Yearghright. < 1278375919 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my bro is in norway and he's a f*#* genius if it comes to natural langs < 1278375924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill that line. < 1278375935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION aims and shoots < 1278375941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and put static on the next one < 1278375942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's dead < 1278375981 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an ipad and < 1278375993 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a keyboard here < 1278375993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww ipad < 1278375997 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he spent 3 weeks there and he actually speaks simple norwegian < 1278376000 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a compiler < 1278376010 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try hiding a laptop < 1278376020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, an ipad would be equally hard < 1278376026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, also put a compiler on n900 < 1278376029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider it done < 1278376030 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1278376054 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knock on door, press button on ipad, rest on floor, hidden < 1278376056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, _proper_ smartphones can run compilers < 1278376061 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop... Not so quick. < 1278376062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bartosz MichaĹ‚ Gasperowicz FFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!! Lurt igjen! :D < 1278376070 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so can the iphone < 1278376080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, so do that then? < 1278376099 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does this mean? < 1278376100 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Keyboard. Screen real estate. Processing power. < 1278376119 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500mhz arm + small screen + touchscreen keyboard = no < 1278376128 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the ipad wish < 1278376135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Bartosz Micha? Gasperowicz DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!! Fooled again! :D < 1278376153 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108742.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1278376163 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he works for a guy that can't express feelings, he just passes information < 1278376170 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: l- not ? < 1278376179 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and says somethin and then does something different < 1278376181 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polish l :P < 1278376182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: what? < 1278376187 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in a village 'near' Floro < 1278376197 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Nooga said < 1278376212 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Micha[l-]" < 1278376219 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "Micha?". < 1278376221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was unicode? oh well. < 1278376224 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not Polish l < 1278376233 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its* < 1278376236 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is. < 1278376237 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its Ĺ‚ < 1278376249 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiiiit no < 1278376251 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish l. < 1278376251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's* < 1278376261 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l != Ĺ‚ < 1278376265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oerjan fail at unicode < 1278376273 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish fuck you! < 1278384090 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278384090 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1278385613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278386048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1278386053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long has clog been missing < 1278386073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh several hours < 1278386219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278386265 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278389776 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278390609 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278390840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to demonstrate how you do a Makefile, for everyone that makes it too complex. < 1278390842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/IEXi < 1278391489 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://failblog.org/2010/07/05/epic-fail-photos-makeup-fail/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+failblog+(The+FAIL+Blog+-+Fail+Pictures+%26+Videos+at+Failblog.ORG)&utm_content=FaceBook < 1278392364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a-doing a coreutils < 1278392365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTW < 1278392936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/IEXi <-- I would add the .PHONY line, but otherwise I agree < 1278392993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also I would, if I had more programs, add PROGRAMS = foo bar quux < 1278392999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all: $(PROGRAMS) < 1278393003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean: < 1278393003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1278393011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rm -f $(PROGRAMS) *.o < 1278393024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way there is less duplication < 1278393035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yes I agree with the general idea < 1278393084 0 :DavidCaruso!48518d8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.81.141.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278393114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also how would you make one target link -lm there < 1278393120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I never figured out a clean way < 1278393126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, with just implicit targets < 1278393536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, GNU make only, but there's a way to do per-target variables. < 1278393570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :target: LDFLAGS += -lm < 1278393695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, well that puts it BEFORE the files iirc < 1278393705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which break with -Wl,--as-needed < 1278393708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the environment < 1278393721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which might be an issue < 1278393793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Argh. < 1278393801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDLIBS is what you want. < 1278393803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ? < 1278393805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes after. < 1278393810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDLIBS? or LIBS? < 1278393816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDLIBS. < 1278393929 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1278393933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1278393939 0 :DavidCaruso!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1278393940 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey folks. < 1278393961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sprunge.us/BgXe It's 100% POSIX compliant cat! < 1278393977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thank God they removed all the other options!) < 1278394070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, fread! < 1278394075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worries me greatly that most implementations of cat are actually complex. < 1278394078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NO < 1278394084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ought to be faster < 1278394092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's fucking CAT < 1278394126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I want to concatenate a dual-side dual-layer dvd image split on 1.44 MB floppies! ;P < 1278394130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs a fast cat < 1278394149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "1.44 MB floppies". < 1278394162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that needs a cat that operates faster than the floppy drive. < 1278394163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes? < 1278394174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guarantee that this is orders of magnitude faster. < 1278394182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah but already copied the floppies to disk with dd < 1278394203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still fast enough. < 1278394208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is to a RAM disk < 1278394211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns a lesson < 1278394215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddup. < 1278394218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER code just for the happy case < 1278394228 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh of course. < 1278394230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if, in production, the happy case will always be true < 1278394247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because in development, it isn't necessarily the case < 1278394284 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, it's a balancing act. It is helpful to consider worse-case scenarios in an algirthm, but if you do it too much you waste a lot of time with boilerplate code. Sometimes you should just let it crash. < 1278394376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a list of utils that POSIX requires < 1278394389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is in the POSIX standard < 1278394396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which is free < 1278394396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, found it < 1278394412 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't seen error-handling in Haskell in action. < 1278394561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't have a single handy list, but it's possible to see if something's required. Which works for me. < 1278394585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it has a list on the side in the pdf bookmarks < 1278394599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1278394662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gash darnit, awk is mandatory. < 1278394735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says no < 1278394746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care what it says, that's seperate from coreutils. < 1278394842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sed it mandatory too < 1278394880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as is sh and vi < 1278394922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1278394931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALALACANTHEARYOU < 1278394955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hey you are not ehird :P < 1278394957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop doing that < 1278395024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278395034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc getline() is in POSIX 2008 and suc < 1278395036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1278395048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the glibc people managed to get a few things in < 1278395060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are actually quite useful in general < 1278395064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few useless ones too iirc < 1278395076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1278396418 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1278396450 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this piss cheap vodka that I do not want to finish off straight. But I don't want to throw it into a shitty mixed drink either if it isn't going to waste good < 1278396456 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does coke and vodka sound? < 1278396719 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what < 1278396721 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even care < 1278396724 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coke and vodka it is. < 1278397247 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay < 1278397252 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for future reference < 1278397255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coke, vodka, chocolate syrup < 1278398045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278398131 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278398312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/cat is 52k. That frightens me. < 1278398364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do it in like 50 bytes < 1278398405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278398427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's 8k with dietlibc, but then, that does include a full stdio implementation. < 1278398448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asmutils' is 684 bytes. < 1278398481 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278398510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow: bc! < 1278398758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The ELF header is longer than 50 bytes :-P < 1278398776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, well < 1278398779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was something really silly < 1278398782 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely under 1kB < 1278398791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wasn't compliant though; just straight no-option cat < 1278398816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like 250-300 bytes is probably doable < 1278398821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: asmutils' is *GNU* compliants. < 1278398826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1278398828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1278398828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compliant. < 1278399000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MICROCOSM < 1278399024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ADD < 1278399027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278399037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SUBTRACT < 1278401295 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]] < 1278401299 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,4,7],[1,4,8],[1,4,9],[1,5,7],[1,5,8],[1,5,9],[1,6,7],[1,6,8],[1,6,9],[2,4,7],[2,4,8],[2,4,9],[2,5,7],[2,5,8],[2,5,9],[2,6,7],[2,6,8],[2,6,9],[3,4,7],[3,4,8],[3,4,9],[3,5,7],[3,5,8],[3,5,9],[3,6,7],[3,6,8],[3,6,9]] < 1278401316 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... superset? < 1278401328 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what operation am I looking at. < 1278401373 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9,10]] < 1278401375 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,4,7],[1,4,8],[1,4,9],[1,4,10],[1,5,7],[1,5,8],[1,5,9],[1,5,10],[1,6,7],[1,6,8],[1,6,9],[1,6,10],[2,4,7],[2,4,8],[2,4,9],[2,4,10],[2,5,7],[2,5,8],[2,5,9],[2,5,10],[2,6,7],[2,6,8],[2,6,9],[2,6,10],[3,4,7],[3,4,8],[3,4,9],[3,4,10],[3,5,7],[3,5,8],[3,5,9],[3,5,10],[3,6,7],[3,6,8],[3,6,9],[3,6,10]] < 1278401381 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1278401407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the size of each sub-list is the minimum size of the input sub-lists < 1278401608 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason it reminds me of powerset, but it's not the same. < 1278401656 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there's one size-4 list.... so now I have no fucking clue what sequence does on [[a]] < 1278401676 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than a bunch of permutation-like lists < 1278401973 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1],[2]] < 1278401974 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,2]] < 1278401984 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1,2],[3,4]] < 1278401985 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,3],[1,4],[2,3],[2,4]] < 1278402008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oooooh < 1278402018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]] < 1278402020 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,4],[1,5],[1,6],[2,4],[2,5],[2,6],[3,4],[3,5],[3,6]] < 1278402028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Speaking of small executables, I have a 253-byte stub (inc. ELF headers + code) for x86-32 which does (with direct syscalls) fork+exec /bin/bzcat, feeds it a blob, reads it to rwx segment and jumps into it. < 1278402102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (I use it for compressed executables, since UPX's compression ratio isn't so awesome and its decompression stub is larger; while the "traditional" trick of making a shellscript that decompresses into /tmp/x and runs it is so ugly.) < 1278402194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Anyhow, I'm sure you can get a "doesn't look at argv, just read+write loop" cat into the 100-150 byte range. My headers are 72 bytes, and you can stick 9 bytes of code into the padding in the middle anyway.) < 1278402346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1278402365 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence is non-deterministic for [[a]] < 1278402384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1278402390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every Haskell function is deterministic < 1278402433 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each sublist in the output becomes a non-deterministic value of a new non-deterministic sequence... represented determinnistically as a [[a]] < 1278402442 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: simulated, of course. I use non-deterministic loosely. < 1278402458 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/output/input < 1278402467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this non-deterministic at all? < 1278402476 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... here's what I'm saying < 1278402506 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say the input to the sequencefunction is a sequence x(n) < 1278402511 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the output is y(n) < 1278402541 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y(n) = [x(1), x(2), x(3), x(4) ...] < 1278402577 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sequence $ [[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]] < 1278402579 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,3,5],[1,3,6],[1,4,5],[1,4,6],[2,3,5],[2,3,6],[2,4,5],[2,4,6]] < 1278402604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should start at zero, acutally. So that's < 1278402614 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x(0), x(1), x(2)] < 1278402682 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x(0) = 1 or 2; x(1) = 3 or 4; x(2) = 5 or 6 < 1278402744 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a simulation of a non-determinstic sequence that constructs every possible deterministic sequence that it represents. < 1278402755 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm making any sense. < 1278402944 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do {nd_list <- sequence [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]; nd_list} < 1278402946 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,4,1,5,1,6,2,4,2,5,2,6,3,4,3,5,3,6] < 1278402959 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that flattens it. < 1278402978 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join $ sequence [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]] < 1278402986 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell join $ sequence [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]] < 1278402993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t join < 1278403001 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :o < 1278403007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it broke. < 1278403024 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t join < 1278403035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:52:11] I don't think I'm making any sense. <-- this < 1278403045 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1278403070 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically how the monadic operations of [] a represent non-determinism < 1278403089 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence takes one representation and flips it around in a way. < 1278403187 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of having a list where each sub-list is a non-deterministic value < 1278403199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278403200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278403217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you now have a list where each sub-list is a possible determinized list. < 1278403249 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the original non-deterministic sequence < 1278403258 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278403265 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking English < 1278403282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural language makes technical things hard to explain. < 1278403291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was thinking of "completely ordinary" executables, not using parts of the ELF header for code. :-) < 1278403306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everyone's doing that! < 1278403306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I did misremember that the headers were around 120 bytes or so. < 1278403472 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do {x <- [1..9]; return $ [x, x+1, x+2]} < 1278403473 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,2,3],[2,3,4],[3,4,5],[4,5,6],[5,6,7],[6,7,8],[7,8,9],[8,9,10],[9,10,11]] < 1278403501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: They're about that size if you have more than one segment, which you will in a "completely ordinary" executable (one read-write for data, one read-executable for code). < 1278403515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do {x <- [1..9]; [x, x+1, x+2]} < 1278403516 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,2,3,4,3,4,5,4,5,6,5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9,8,9,10,9,10,11] < 1278403535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Also mine would be 80 bytes already, I just interlaced the last 8 bytes of the file header with the first 8 of the segment header.) < 1278403535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you probably don't need a non-code segment for cat < 1278403538 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm.... < 1278403544 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got an idea < 1278403562 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you newtype'd list < 1278403575 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could implement a monad for digital signal processing that makes things like delay-lines easy to do. < 1278403600 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well not newtype actually < 1278403627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well: < 1278403628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:/users/htkallas/tmp$ nasm -Ox -o cat -f bin cat.asm ; chmod u+x cat < 1278403628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:/users/htkallas/tmp$ echo 'foo, bar, baz' | ./cat < 1278403628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, bar, baz < 1278403628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:/users/htkallas/tmp$ ls -l cat < 1278403628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxrw-r-- 1 htkallas htkallas 110 2010-07-06 10:06 cat* < 1278403669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { (dval, x) <- signalWithDelay 3 [1..]; return $ dval+x} < 1278403694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't take arguments, I take it :-) < 1278403696 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, wtf am I saying. You don't even need to define a new type. < 1278403717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right. Haven't tested it much either, might have bugs. Might also be a bit overly pessimistic as to whether a syscall's argument registers stay intact; I think they might, which would save some bytes. < 1278403723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking POSIX-compatible < 1278403727 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalWithDelay :: [a] -> [(Maybe a,a)] < 1278403732 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalWithDelay :: Int -> [a] -> [(Maybe a,a)] < 1278403754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think that's guaranteed anywhere, but I'm not sure. < 1278403783 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalWithDelay :: Int -> Int -> [a] -> [([Maybe a],a)] < 1278403804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Somebody claimed it was, and the syscall handling seemed to suggest they were, but I didn't see it exactly spelled out in the docs anywhere. The syscall number is lost, at least, since that's the return value register. < 1278403808 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first int is distance back, second int is size of the delay line. < 1278403905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some architectures clobber the syscall argument registers, according to some glibc bug report I found when googling for whether x86-32 does. < 1278403941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delayedSignalWithDefault :: Int -> Int -> Int -> [([a],a)] < 1278403949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get rid of the Maybe. < 1278403975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delayedSignalWithDefault :: a -> Int -> Int -> [([a],a)] < 1278403976 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1278404226 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1278404277 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think there would be any real harm in making tuple types a superset of all algebraic data types with a single constructor that fits the tuple? < 1278404309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data List = Cons a [a] | Empty < 1278404344 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list = Cons 0 $ Cons 1 $ Cons 2 $ Cons 3 < 1278404362 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x, xs) = list < 1278404384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you just described Haskell lists < 1278404394 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what I'm saying < 1278404408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason to make tuples distinct from named algebraic constructors. < 1278404420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278404437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't tuples simply represent /any/ constructor for pattern matching? < 1278404450 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any constructor that matches, that is. < 1278404458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 101 bytes if I assume the regs are saved, and it seems to work. < 1278404465 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example < 1278404487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course it may work, but that doesn't mean it's ABI-guaranteed :-) < 1278404495 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value of type (a, [a]) would contain the set of [a] values constructed via (:) < 1278404526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There were some .pdf slidesets that seemed to suggest it was. :p < 1278404553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a value of type (a, [a]) would not include values of type [a] constructed from [] < 1278404560 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it does not match. < 1278404603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] values constructed from [] could be type () < 1278404650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://sprunge.us/LhDM if you want to see them codes. < 1278404676 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1278404702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of writing functions that operate on specific named types of specific typeclasses < 1278404724 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could instead write functions that operate on any algebraic data structure constructed with a certain signature < 1278404747 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*named types /or/ specific typeclasses < 1278404846 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would almost be a sort of weak typing < 1278404858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I note no error checking < 1278404868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Where's your buffer size? < 1278404891 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under that typing system, (1,(2,(3,()))) would be equivalent to [1,2,3] as well as any other algebraic value constructed the same way. < 1278404919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's the same as the buffer's address. You know, to save bytes. < 1278404930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (That's why I loaded the program to a reasonably low address.) < 1278404934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1278404947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ha. < 1278404960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there *is* error checking of sorts; if the read fails, it'll exit. < 1278404968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the write fails, though, then it won't bother. < 1278404968 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if the address was 1 billion base 10. :) < 1278404991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with the correct error code? < 1278405013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, of course not. That would mean I'd have to distinguish between errors and end-of-file. < 1278405034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly :-) < 1278405048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your cat is but a poor approximation of a cat < 1278405069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can possibly add a "sets bl" into some proper spot to get return code 0 of the program when it hits EOF, and 1 when an error occurs. < 1278405092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part of the cat is that it won't read files specified as arguments, admittedly. < 1278405149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, write may write less than it's given; you need to loop it until it's done < 1278405158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nah." < 1278405181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to GNU cat; it may be bloated but at least it works! < 1278405205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] :: (), EOF :: (), () :: () < 1278405250 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] :: [a], EOF :: ExampleStreamType a, () :: () < 1278405287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The decompression stub I have now writes the whole compressed code into a FIFO before starting to read from bzcat; it works because Linux's pipe buffers are 64k nowadays. I used to have three processes (one child to exec bzcat, one child to loop-write bytes into its stdin, the parent to read until EOF and then run the code) but that took far too many bytes; to get it under 256 bytes I had to cut some corners. < 1278405336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackety-hack < 1278405372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another "nice" trick: I put bzcat's argv list at the very end of the program, because that way I don't need to explicitly put the terminating NULL pointer in the file, since what's after the program is zero-initialized data already. < 1278405475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lunchtime.) < 1278405488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like breakfast time < 1278406154 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah... sockets in Haskell are not very well documented < 1278406246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/repeal-the-2nd-law-of-thermodynamics-1 < 1278407075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I almost never manage to do any breakfast at home, so I have to do a 10:30 lunch here. < 1278407103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breakfast is the most important meal of the day etc < 1278407317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call what I just ate a "breakfast", then. < 1278407328 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1278407389 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-228.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278408029 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278408121 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278408396 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1278408447 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278409639 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278409652 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278410007 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278410106 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278410499 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278410633 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278412524 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278413365 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278413375 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278413822 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278414732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278414734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278414744 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278415312 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278415478 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I program a little better after being drunk < 1278415482 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not while drunk < 1278415486 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after I have sobered up < 1278416154 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278416639 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are o(klopol|erian) < 1278417058 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278417300 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278417567 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278417569 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278417761 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278417761 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-173.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278417953 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278417954 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1278418480 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278418535 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-173.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278421836 0 :maxman!~chatzilla@84-74-130-245.dclient.hispeed.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1278421901 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Paws < 1278421911 0 :Paws!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable < 1278421921 0 :maxman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278423412 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278425490 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278426120 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sorry for disappearing, my battery was depleted < 1278426282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, hm lets see < 1278426303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nooga, wtf is http://plfoto.com/zdjecie,inne,wkrotce-bal-sie-tutaj-rozpocznie,1549252.html ? Some sort of post-apocalypse world? < 1278426307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nooga, and tell your dad I think your images are awesome. And I love HDR. < 1278426311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ^ < 1278426992 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278427292 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278427301 0 :lifthrasiir!EAyN3mHl@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278427323 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not post-apocalypse but post-soviet :D < 1278427461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://keygenjukebox.com < 1278427463 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://keygenjukebox.com < 1278427463 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://keygenjukebox.com < 1278427471 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hahah < 1278427474 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's the same. < 1278427510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :f < 1278427592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm wow. Any of you have a classical PC keyboard nearby. Not low profile that is. And a rubber band. < 1278427592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put the rubber band around ESC-F12, wait while it slides up the keys... Try to predict which way it flies. < 1278427609 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like soviets took polish manors and turned them into big farms & stuff and then left < 1278427626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are some ruined places like this < 1278427801 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. < 1278427801 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278427825 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's not like they weren't pigstalls before the russians came < 1278427856 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278427879 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pardon? < 1278427943 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the royals getting drunk and high all the time for the money they got from traders for selling off their influence < 1278427969 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only have so many drunken parties in a nice place before it turns into a crackhouse < 1278427996 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cutr.pl/5ec68700f0 < 1278428056 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1278428156 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you truly think if the polish gave a shit about their country this stuff would like that *today*? < 1278428174 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 years after overthrowing the soviet regime? < 1278428213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: no. <-- ? < 1278428240 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i refuse to be a slave executing your rubberband schemes. < 1278428254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, XD < 1278428288 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>