< 1280534649 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280535027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The new Mac Pro. With up to 12 cores of processing power, it’s the fastest Mac ever." < 1280535031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abuh. Resist urge to purchase. < 1280535235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, that took very little effort actually.) < 1280535243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Looks like my disassimilation went quickly.) < 1280535270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION both wants to eat and cannot compel self to make something
< 1280535295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eat plastic! < 1280535299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nutritious and NUTRITIOUS! < 1280535550 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eat raw food < 1280535663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Get a Intel server board, a case, some disks, a few fans, and a GPU and you get the same performance for less than half the price < 1280535675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1280535690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and pair of server CPUs < 1280535696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still less than half the price < 1280535706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yeah, if all you care about is raw hardware performance. (Which is, in this case, true; but my point stands.) < 1280535712 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280535722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why would you care about anything else than that? < 1280535732 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280535739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to answer ... < 1280535739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is there to care about? Being a mac hippie? < 1280535751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're just trolling: you know I dislike Apple. < 1280535769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the only possible point of that statement -- to ridicule my like of Apple -- does not exist; you are trolling. < 1280535776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif < 1280535789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, I'm not trolling you < 1280535793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm trolling apple < 1280535793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280535808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which is a lot more fun < 1280535840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; you're trolling Apple by saying "mac hippie" somewhere entirely other than Cupertino. Do you even understand how this sort of stuff works? You can't troll someone who isn't listening. Do you even know what "trolling" means? < 1280535881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a far out idea for something else than raw performance: the case design < 1280535894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and um, not having to put together the parts on your own < 1280535913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up. You're not making intelligent socio-political commentary about Mac users. < 1280535913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably buying a comparable HP server or such would still be way cheaper < 1280535927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... that's an impossible task :P < 1280535967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw are those apple xserver thingies equally over-priced? < 1280535976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280535983 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280535983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is that why you never see them in data centers? < 1280536016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a New Midnight's Resolution; and that is to not respond to anything blatantly provocative and/or trolling in a very stupid way from you. < 1280536031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, good luck with that. < 1280536034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, " alise, btw are those apple xserver thingies equally over-priced?" was actually a serious question < 1280536040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trolling at all < 1280536041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're expensive. < 1280536055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether they are overpriced is up to you; they're certainly for institutions with a lot of cash. They /are/ in use. < 1280536065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not in data centres; more in processing labs and stuff. < 1280536083 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python -- derived from the verb pythein, "to rot" < 1280536089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because most people who 1U servers probably care a LOT more about raw power than someone who buys a mac pro. < 1280536096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who buy 1U* < 1280536122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh snap. < 1280536150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how fitting for Monty Python was my first thought. How fit for the programming language python was my second. < 1280536152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, \#esoteric produces a distinctly unsatisfactory rendering of the channel name with LaTeX. < 1280536161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CM? < 1280536163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone tell me what style of columns the Parthenon had. < 1280536174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ...? < 1280536178 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1280536180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280536182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try wikipedia < 1280536183 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO GOOGLE < 1280536188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue < 1280536199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Minion Pro. < 1280536207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more the... < 1280536208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try it in CMR, does it look better there? < 1280536209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doric < 1280536210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it needs small caps. < 1280536219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I am however curious as to why you wondered about that < 1280536223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't; it's not a font issue. Besides, all the glyphs are perfectly reasonable and professional. This is not a font issue. < 1280536227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a typesetting issue. < 1280536235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still, try that < 1280536239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. There is no point. < 1280536246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\textsc{\#esoteric} is almost correct, but the letter spacing is too large. < 1280536247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you just hate CMR < 1280536251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280536252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like CMR. < 1280536256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1280536264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just hate my apparent hate of CMR and thus try to push CMR even when it's irrelevant. < 1280536287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in the context of latex CMR is quite relevant < 1280536299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no reason to say "try CMR" if it's nothing to do with font. < 1280536299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, you felt that CMR is the only acceptable Didone font... < 1280536310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which it, of course, is. An opinion I believe you share. < 1280536312 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1280536315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which of course it is) < 1280536317 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really get why typesetting is interesting. < 1280536317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never claimed you should use it as a font for GUI elements < 1280536318 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all. < 1280536319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1280536344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Then I kindly suggest you don't bother those of us who do think it is. < 1280536350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably don't consider many of your hobbies interesting. < 1280536361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You need to read more well-typeset text. < 1280536369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{\large\#}esoteric % this is good < 1280536376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I think LaTeX with microtype does a good job at it. I leave the rest to it < 1280536385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks good and I don't want to fiddle with details < 1280536394 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar serifs < 1280536402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1280536407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1280536410 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a general statement < 1280536411 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about serifs. < 1280536420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay _that_ was trolling < 1280536432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, well-typeset text will use serif fonts for most of it. < 1280536444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, unless for screen reading < 1280536447 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but wait... < 1280536453 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't comic sans like... the best font? < 1280536456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I consider type setting a solved problem: LaTeX + CMR + Microtype < 1280536469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: -_-' < 1280536471 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280536480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how AnMaster thinks that one type fits /all purposes/; that it's spelled "type setting", and that one type fits /all purposes/. < 1280536481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, for low-DPI usage a sans serif font is often preferable. < 1280536493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it fits everything I type < 1280536500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like there's some retarded part of his brain that really doesn't understand what typefaces do to text. Wait, that's all of his brain. < 1280536517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I think it doesn't matter if I spell it "type setting" or "typesetting" on IRC. Hell English is inconsistent already < 1280536522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I've found that Deja Vu Serif, hinted, is *very* readable. < 1280536530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i totly agre LOL fuk u english < 1280536538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq wtf??? r dese esolangs < 1280536538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a screen font) < 1280536543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u dont no fuckshit bout languages < 1280536548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you fail at trolling however < 1280536560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at knowing what trolling is and when it is intended. < 1280536566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like you fail at trolling augur for how he types :P < 1280536568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afro? < 1280536578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I kill people for MS Comic Sans. < 1280536582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thats because i type awesome < 1280536583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general. < 1280536588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, exactly! < 1280536601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will (barely) make an exception for use in comic lettering. < 1280536617 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://julianhansen.com/index.php?/alternative-type-finder/ < 1280536618 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1280536619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where it is *appropriate*, though not the best choice of font, IMO) < 1280536624 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how I pick typefaces < 1280536627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though I've found that Deja Vu Serif, hinted, is *very* readable. <-- agreed. the whole Dejavu family, when hinted, is very good for on-screen reading < 1280536627 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this flowchart. :) < 1280536643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shit for printing, but quite nice on-screen. < 1280536655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, I use CMR for printing ;P < 1280536769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERLO < 1280536772 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HI! < 1280536778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Minion! < 1280536793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frutiger & Syntax < 1280536795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: hi < 1280536800 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supz? < 1280536804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frutiger is a nice font but the NHS use it. < 1280536806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *shrug* < 1280536811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, to me it makes no difference < 1280536826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and that is why you do not have the qualifications to call typesetting a "solved problem". < 1280536833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supzzzz alise? < 1280536835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is btw a huge insult to the very skilled and careful typographers through the ages. < 1280536836 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :national health service? < 1280536839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yes < 1280536842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*national hell service < 1280536845 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hheheheheh < 1280536847 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1280536858 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauhaha, you should check it here in PL < 1280536864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you're one of the easiest people to troll ever. < 1280536868 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day... < 1280536872 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will sneak up on you. < 1280536885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, the boring parts of typesetting *are* a solved problem. :) < 1280536887 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and insult typography or something < 1280536903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i've not been trolled. < 1280536908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know exactly what AnMaster is trying to do < 1280536909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forces alise to typeset whatever he is typesetting in Zapfino
< 1280536915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just talking shit about him like always < 1280536928 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone a big bang theory fan? < 1280536938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes you usually jut talk shit < 1280536943 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entrance to the Acropolis that used both Doric and Ionian columns was the... < 1280536947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I just love this history test < 1280536959 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... asking me about architecture < 1280536962 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not history < 1280536969 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ionian --> @ ? < 1280537012 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280537015 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise hates me. < 1280537030 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is alise and hates niggers < 1280537031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot I finally have irssi up < 1280537042 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is using irssi.
< 1280537044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't hate niggers just 'cuz they be niggers man < 1280537046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. < 1280537064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise hates niggers FOR HITLER < 1280537090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's the faggots < 1280537094 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1280537108 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about shemales? < 1280537112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and t-girls? < 1280537127 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're technically not faggots < 1280537127 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, please stop < 1280537141 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1280537145 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you hate shemales? < 1280537149 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hitler you < 1280537201 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm allergic after one weird (luckily not close) encounter < 1280537210 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened there < 1280537212 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::F < 1280537216 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone reminded you guys recently that alise is like a small version of David Deutsch? < 1280537223 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well go on, nothing to be ashamed of < 1280537233 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say you never did anything < 1280537243 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was "she" hitting on you? < 1280537249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : woot I finally have irssi up <-- what about it? < 1280537253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga was /trying/ to have sex with a cat covered in peanuts < 1280537263 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280537268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you cover a cat in peanuts < 1280537269 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1280537275 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just fall off the cat < 1280537276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: just tell us the story < 1280537277 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, i hate cats < 1280537280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I mean, after getting printing files to cups from opengenera to work, that feels like an insignificant feat :P No offence meant. < 1280537306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: glue < 1280537317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't worry AnMaster is just so tech-superior to you < 1280537322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he solved a trivial problem too but his was more pointless! < 1280537324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he wins < 1280537325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that would be rather difficult < 1280537336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually I expect coppro to be able to pull this off too < 1280537341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I know about him < 1280537386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: none taken < 1280537395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, just the other day I broke a computer by joining a club < 1280537429 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga got scared to talk about his life < 1280537480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how? < 1280537564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides, it wasn't trivial. Had to translate the ppd to settings that opengenera understands. Which is in a custom format of course < 1280537573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various other strange stuff < 1280537581 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what for? < 1280537591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what for? To get printing to work? < 1280537599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean "why get printing to work" < 1280537610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "why opengenera" or "why computers" < 1280537626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why get printing to work under opengenera < 1280537667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why not. And I wanted to be able to do hardcopies of my interactive lisp session easily ;P < 1280537684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I haven't yet got that to work, since it adds a cover page. And that breaks things < 1280537708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs, why are you playing with opengenera?! don't you have emacs? :| < 1280537729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, zmacs is nicer < 1280537747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I just had an idea. However it has the issue that documents will print in reverse < 1280537762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could add a post processing step for that though < 1280537775 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see, you're the opengenera fan, like alise is a plan9 fan < 1280537790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh yes, I quite like plan9 too as well < 1280537809 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, plan9 is actually quite useful and at least boots natively on a modern pc < 1280537817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, both systems were commercial failures. Both were innovative. < 1280537824 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1280537830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opengenera was not innovative. < 1280537831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genera was. < 1280537834 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boobs are innovative < 1280537838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes < 1280537849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also true < 1280537854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I don't have a physical lisp machine, so I will have to take the second best < 1280537873 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-processor-collection-persian-rugs,10975.html < 1280537874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and god damn, I never ever seen such a well documented system as genera < 1280537875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1280537890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never heard of genera, but I have heard of plan 9 < 1280537902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you heard of lisp machines? < 1280537909 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of tty < 1280537923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, tty as in ttys on unix? < 1280537936 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1280537959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? I mean, it seems to me like something obvious that is just there. < 1280537969 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't like plan9's idea of console < 1280537973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like "I like the idea of RAM" < 1280537978 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest of plan9 is okay < 1280537984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280538021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like many parts of plan9, but the user interface is not one of them. I like genera/opengenera's user interface though. You very quickly get used to scroll wheel doing nothing < 1280538027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then very quickly you stop missing it < 1280538036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrolling works quite differently but very well < 1280538072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll wheel as well would be nice though. < 1280538084 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to write a replacement for rio and, suprisingly, i even managed to display colorful rectangles on the screen < 1280538123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, hm? < 1280538134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I think there is a bit more than that to it :P < 1280538139 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: rectangle-oriented interface? :) < 1280538140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1280538154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, is rio the WM? < 1280538155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1280538159 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280538218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280538221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rio is the window multiplexer < 1280538222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1280538224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely a manager < 1280538246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it draw the window borders? < 1280538251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1280538252 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anyone else know a lot about DSP? and also Haskell? < 1280538263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and handle dragging of borders and such? < 1280538268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want to figure out how to do DSP in Haskell, but so far I haven't been able to comprehend DSP libraries for Haskell. < 1280538276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but it is not structured like an x manager. < 1280538279 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think maybe I could do it myself pretty well? < 1280538285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, okay < 1280538289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it is a window manager in my book < 1280538311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an X11 one of course < 1280538315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still a window manager < 1280538350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic strategy is pointing /dev/{screen,mouse,keyboard} of children to its own file then painter's algorithm < 1280538359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a way it is more involved than an x manager by completely engulfing windows < 1280538385 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/ehird < 1280538388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides I only asked if it was the WM. By pure chance both Window Manager and Window Multiplexer happens to fit that < 1280538391 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1280538399 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1280538420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so it is like a combination of a X WM and the actual X server? < 1280538442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p9's gui is nothing like X < 1280538447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in a way. but the graphics hardware is handled by the drivers still. < 1280538450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not really. < 1280538450 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking Arrow would be a useful abstraction for digital signal processors? < 1280538459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and by this design hw acceleration OpenGL performance would suck under plan9, right? < 1280538462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it multiplexes a bunch of fake /dev/screens to the real /dev/screen with painter's algorithm basically. < 1280538470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah -- because summaries reveal all details. < 1280538485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed, that's a universal truth :P < 1280538590 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1280538701 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dansk jevlar! < 1280539092 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280539112 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280539123 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1280539353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? < 1280539377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280539418 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280540329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://julianhansen.com/files/infographiclarge_v2.png < 1280540383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READABILITY? -> NO -> Didot < 1280540410 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just quoting Helmer from Von Trier's Kingdom < 1280540574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, some play? < 1280540590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I love the link to comic sans X-D < 1280540662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Kingdom (Danish title: Riget) is an eight-episode Danish television mini-series, created by Lars von Trier in 1994, and co-directed by Lars von Trier and Morten Arnfred. < 1280540740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, same < 1280540756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls his first collaborator was a big fan of Riget
< 1280540792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a big fan of scratching my head and wondering why people care so much about fonts. < 1280540803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typefaces, dammit, typefaces. < 1280540815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point. < 1280540839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i guess you need to care about esthetics first, right? *badum-tish* (/me doesn't really either) < 1280540839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A font is a component of a typeface: for instance Times New Roman is a typeface, where as 10pt Times New Roman, italic is a font. < 1280540855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have zero capacity for aesthetics. < 1280540868 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why today I was wearing a pink shirt with a peacock blue tie and a white hat :P < 1280540877 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riget is awesome < 1280540940 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you're research fellow, right? < 1280540951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't have a fellowship. < 1280540956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm usually a research assistant. < 1280540963 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, justified < 1280540964 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presently I'm a research intern. < 1280540978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Research Fellowship of the Pseudo-Ring. < 1280540979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's justified? < 1280540995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no. Not justified :P < 1280540998 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: your fashion < 1280541001 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1280541040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1280541042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I showed up for my first day at MSR, all the first-day interns (in all divisions) had to herd together first. When I went through one line, the woman checking things went "I'll bet you're in research. Go that way." < 1280541047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even ask :P < 1280541048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is why today I was wearing a pink shirt with a peacock blue tie and a white hat :P < 1280541050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1280541145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, however. if you are able to note that this means you don't have a capacity for aesthetics, then that means you either were told this, or realise that it isn't aesthetic. The latter would mean that you do in fact have a capacity for aesthetics! < 1280541171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I dress is regularly described as "garish" or "gaudy" < 1280541176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMM. SPIKY SERIFS ARE NICE -> OK -> Swift < 1280541180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some multiple choice. < 1280541186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure I probably haven't figured it out by now :P < 1280541205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU LIKE FUTURA? -> YES -> Futura < 1280541209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was unexpected. < 1280541315 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280541327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, iirc you said you use your colour matcher to generate non-matching colours right? < 1280541343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a joke :P < 1280541345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually do that. < 1280541372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh damn < 1280541378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that would have been so cool < 1280541392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU'VE BEEN LYING TO US < 1280541414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is clothing matching is more complicated than colors, reflective properties can make two things that seem to match from one photo actually go terribly together. < 1280541461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so you actually need a ray tracer to do it properly? :D < 1280541468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1280541493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, as long as they don't turn out to go nicely together when they shouldn't < 1280541520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough when I'm aiming NOT to match I suppose :P < 1280541582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, as with your clothes that is? < 1280541602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1280541663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, still you do have a sense for aesthetics. If you didn't you would be unable to even comment upon dressing without aesthetics! < 1280541673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it might be poor < 1280541678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it must still be there < 1280541692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the best you can manage is thus a limit towards zero < 1280541697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280541702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO UNHELPFUL :P < 1280541724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what? < 1280541744 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280541809 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h220.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280541849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what I don't get is how it can suggest typesetting a whole book in Baskerville < 1280541890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it is better than Zapfino or Bodoni by far, Still horrible for long sections of text < 1280541895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1280541897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only on screen < 1280541905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that could explain it < 1280541907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /good/ digitised baskerville -- a GOOD one, bad ones are by far the majority -- < 1280541908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is beautiful < 1280541928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Douglas Adams' works I suspect would be superb in a /good/ digitised baskerville. < 1280541941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digitised? < 1280541945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why digitised? < 1280541947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/BaskervilleSpec.svg <-- this is a good baskerville < 1280541952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Umm ... unless you're using metal type. < 1280541961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're using a digitised font family. < 1280541965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/BaskervilleSpec.svg <-- this is a good baskerville <-- this is like unreadable < 1280541972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're like stupid. < 1280541980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, I'm on like 114 dpi < 1280541985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl +. < 1280541986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1280541987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called svg. < 1280541992 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pants goes against the Word of God" < 1280541993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thought it was a png < 1280541996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://amazinggracebaptistchurchkjv.com/subpage209.html < 1280542013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, /any/ typeface will have a range of digitisations from crap to superb. < 1280542025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is a subtle, old typeface; so it's a lot easier to get wrong. < 1280542030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it certainly will never fit some works. < 1280542039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay those straight-up lines in the B (you freaks probably have a special name for them) are much better than in the flow chart < 1280542041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's wonderful if tamed. < 1280542042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere as thick < 1280542059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I could call you a freak for having a Linux/OpenGenera obsession. < 1280542064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's true. < 1280542070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1280542083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and? < 1280542096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My goodness Baskerville is a beaut. < 1280542118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Baskerville in http://julianhansen.com/files/infographiclarge_v2.png is bold, by the way. < 1280542121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like all the other samples. < 1280542128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, it's crammed into very few pixels. < 1280542136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's understandable that it looks so ugly there. < 1280542152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that could explains why the more readable alternative to didot is in fact less readable < 1280542157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The italic serifs are awesome. < 1280542158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that picture < 1280542163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yuh. < 1280542192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't look ugly there. Just unreadable for long text < 1280542198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Didot can be readable at very small pixel sizes because the renderer runs out of ways to make the horizontal lines ridiculously thin so it ends up making them more equal; you know, the reasonable thing to do. < 1280542199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not the same as ugly < 1280542211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, setting a book in all-bold, low-resolution type would be dumb. :P < 1280542217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280542234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wouldn't claim Zapfino is ugly. Yet I would claim it is unreadable for long text. < 1280542296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zapfino is actually quite ugly though, < 1280542301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though. < 1280542313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not compared to the alternative < 1280542322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think it is excessively ugly < 1280542325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice for logos in factr < 1280542327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact* < 1280542364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: amazinggracebaptistchurchkjv is a joke, right? < 1280542370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280542371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :book burning < 1280542372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazinggracebaptistchurchkjv.com/Download99.html < 1280542383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's never clear :P < 1280542384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a vaguely calligraphic logo, *hire a bloody calligrapher*. < 1280542398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guarantee it'll look better than whatever calligraphic font you find. < 1280542448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you think of Myriad? < 1280542468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's... Apple Sans. It's a nice font, but... < 1280542474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never, ever use it without someone thinking "oh, Apple". < 1280542485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be Apple Sans= < 1280542490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1280542493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they renamed it? < 1280542497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple use it for everything. < 1280542505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the headings on their site, the "iPod" in their adverts, ... < 1280542506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't tell < 1280542506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280542507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything. < 1280542513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm unable to tell that < 1280542525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that Eurostile looks nice < 1280542533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of startrek logos hehe < 1280542550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/EurostileSpec.svg < 1280542556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proletariats are futuristic. < 1280542576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as much in that image < 1280542602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Metro looks funky < 1280542644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bodoni makes me think of Discworld. Think there was a dwarf with that name in "The Truth" (working at that press) < 1280542645 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eple Sons < 1280542683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is the type face used for the non-typeface boxes in that flow shart < 1280542689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the choices and the middle box < 1280542713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is in the flowchart. < 1280542740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where? < 1280542741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I MUST SAY THAT THIS FLOWCHART IS LOOKING HOT". < 1280542745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1280542770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone use OCR < 1280542784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a font I mean < 1280542786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminator! < 1280542800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I watched that movie once. Several years ago < 1280542804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember any fonts < 1280542830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeface, dammit, typeface. < 1280542848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, font is shorter to type that typeface < 1280542853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1280542871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"face" < 1280542885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in your face! < 1280542888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes that would work < 1280542904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I would seem like a typography geek then < 1280542907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want that < 1280542912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1280542924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term is "typophile". ;) < 1280543085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a typochondriac. < 1280544092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, :D < 1280544754 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280544978 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280546438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For containers, there is a lot to say. So, I will not say anything for the moment." < 1280546525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1280546641 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280546708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to set up ssh so that the user connects with a chrooted jail instead of main system hosting sshd? < 1280546814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Run sshd in the chroot < 1280546820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Duh! :P ) < 1280546822 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i thought < 1280546891 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrooted system runs using a 80MB ramdisk :D < 1280546964 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to get a Debian chroot on my phone. < 1280547167 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280547803 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280548249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stallman calls iphone/ipad igroan/ibad < 1280548250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news at 11 < 1280548803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280549285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooooh, I may actually have a working Debian chroot 8-D < 1280549297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280549300 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280549307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, ctrl+w != shift+w < 1280549385 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good WM for a very constrained screen size? < 1280549881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dwm < 1280549884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ratpoison < 1280549930 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good WM for a very constrained screen size WITH NO KEYBOARD < 1280549982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suicide. < 1280549988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's painless! < 1280550008 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use Matchbox just because you're all useless :P < 1280550062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more serious note: how do you feel about Twm? < 1280550115 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use twm pretty much whenever I can't have XFCE. < 1280550128 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would suck for a constrained screen. < 1280550184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Get a keyboard? < 1280550201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. Are there any mouse-driven tiling WMs? < 1280550204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if not, why not? < 1280550228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thing I've checked in the past. < 1280550233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't, and it's bizarre that there aren't. < 1280550238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well then. < 1280550244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you've got another project! < 1280550250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO U < 1280550254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really need a patron. < 1280550257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hypothetically adding VFS to Microcosm. < 1280550261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO need a patron. < 1280550268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1280550278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd offer, but I suspect I have fewer funds available than you. < 1280550292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have loads of money, but can a person really have ENOUGH money? < 1280550299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280550304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Gates has enough money. < 1280550386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Bill Gates has sufficient money to shuttle himself to the moon for a summer vacation. < 1280550441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop there, before you start using diagonalization on the question < 1280550556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How much would a moon mission cost? < 1280550570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than $13 billion? < 1280550599 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a month or so of just hangin' out on the moon? < 1280550609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for that he could just about pay to have Apollo rebuilt and launched. < 1280550611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a vacation if you go there, collect some rocks, hit a golf ball, and come back. < 1280550778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It isn't? < 1280550833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've gotta have some time to relax poolside! < 1280551076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y < 1280551081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sea of Tranquility! < 1280551083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'know what has enough money? < 1280551090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US Department of Defense. < 1280551119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should convince them that there's oil on the moon so we can set up a military base there. < 1280551143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be permanently settled until the Moon ceases to be. < 1280551778 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280551799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280551871 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h180.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280552171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280552220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/oh_but_they_do_give_quite_alotta_fucks.PNG < 1280552618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. What's with the Chinese signature? < 1280552750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shockingly, this phone does not make an ideal Debian system ... < 1280552769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking. Positively shocking. < 1280553303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night. < 1280553320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280553322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280554938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280554938 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280554938 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280554939 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280555085 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280555150 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280555318 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280555674 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280557170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280562515 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280562913 0 :kabatta!kabatta@188.25.146.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280562935 0 :kabatta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1280562942 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280563199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280563200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280565137 0 :kabatta!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280566677 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280567332 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280567650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280569247 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h148.60.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280570363 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280571574 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1280573363 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280573449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280574040 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-6-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280574225 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280574310 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280574319 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280574345 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280574365 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280575743 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280576394 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-6-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280576620 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280576764 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-246-0.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280577033 0 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1280577687 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1280578813 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280579111 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280579143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I love the last xkcd < 1280579375 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280580059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yeah. < 1280580088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's just a specific case of poor website design. < 1280580222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes < 1280580244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but as one who have searched for course lists on my university website a LOT... < 1280580246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most commercial sites do that as well. < 1280580265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well they tend to have some "product list" easily available < 1280580269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those I visit < 1280580280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not be a lot of consumer products < 1280580290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, contact info, might be harder < 1280580309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a horrible time trying to find contact info for Conway a while ago. < 1280580318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, his game of life? < 1280580325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other conway? < 1280580329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address Princeton finally gave had been deactivated. < 1280580334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, the very same. < 1280580340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280580395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a symbolics keyboard, with the usb mod < 1280580398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that exists < 1280580408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen a picture of someone modifying it to connect over usb < 1280580437 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280580560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently the designer had a thing for modifier keys. < 1280580611 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280580700 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280581967 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280582769 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280582773 0 :Quadresce`!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280582919 0 :Quadresce`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Quadrescence < 1280582933 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280584723 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-40-187.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280585781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk! < 1280585791 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats me! < 1280585924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did you ask Sgeo that question in the first place? < 1280586039 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what question? < 1280586065 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lymia < 1280586160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one about DCs or somesuch. < 1280586199 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only asked about it here on #esoteric < 1280586321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he told you to come here. < 1280586354 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, I asked if someone could help me with C++ on #IRP, and he redirected me to here < 1280586931 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280586958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCs? as in Data Centers? < 1280587026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, some Windows GUI thing. < 1280587814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. I used genera a bit too much recently, I wondered why delete didn't work. Delete acts like backspace there and backspace acts like left-arrow < 1280587828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result: when it didn't work in linux first thought was "wtf, computer is frozen" < 1280588384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1280588456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what actually made Lisp machines so amazing? < 1280589372 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were powerful workstations < 1280590432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know zzo's web server? < 1280590435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the url < 1280590492 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.111.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280590784 0 :andrewnth!~Andrew@unaffiliated/andrewnth JOIN :#esoteric < 1280591003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280591106 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280592185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280592493 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280595374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1280595382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1280595434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cacaovm.org/ Huh, /another/ free JVM. < 1280595981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dooby dooby doo. < 1280596063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So so so. < 1280596091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:34:38 Kurt Gödel looks delightfully evil... < 1280596091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:04 He would be an ideal candidate for a Halloween costume. < 1280596095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid he's dead. < 1280596113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:18:30 vrml. How does one view it? For historical computing purposes. < 1280596113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:19:08 tools available to me are: opengenera, ubuntu 7.10, ubuntu 10.04, current arch linux < 1280596118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah opengenera came with a vrml viewer. < 1280596125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the FUTURE. < 1280596755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Perl 6: "I have never heard of a piece of software whose memory consumption dropped by 96% and startup time by 98% from the first alpha release to the first production release. That's what it would take to match perl5." < 1280596768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Rakudo Star is more like Rakudo LAME. :| < 1280596781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280597170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it did? I haven't found it then < 1280597186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: From the FUTURE. < 1280597192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, riiiight < 1280597206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cl-http server contains vrml examples though < 1280597207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1280597209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain that < 1280597210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, could you clone the vm, change the password then put up the files somewhere? < 1280597217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than making us poor people go through the setup instructions >_> < 1280597237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you have a license? < 1280597242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280597246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, show it < 1280597252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show yours :) < 1280597263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1280597272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't, you could steal it then < 1280597291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put a file in it saying "This can only be used if you legally own an OpenGenera license!" That provides you the same legal protection as anything (i.e. barely anything) :P < 1280597316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I need to redo the VM. I did several things wrong. Oh and I keep the sys.sct directory in hg now < 1280597323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? XD < 1280597326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, makes reverting stupid things easier < 1280597339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needed it a few times when I messed up < 1280597345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than reinstalling < 1280597355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like using QEMU will be better than VirtualBox. VirtualBox is for emulating more conventional stuff without much ... you know, techy tweaking junk. < 1280597366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Bochs, but Bochs emulates at like half a Hz. < 1280597366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, qemu is slower < 1280597376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: More realistic, for OpenGenera :-) < 1280597388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Bochs is faster than *that*... < 1280597401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I have no clue if this VM will work on OSE virtualbox < 1280597402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not exactly speedy. < 1280597409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and I have nowhere I could put 2.4 GB < 1280597409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sorry; three quarters of a hz. < 1280597415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what df -h in the VM reports < 1280597419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whence the 2.4 GiB? < 1280597425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: inaccurate < 1280597429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox lazily allocates disk < 1280597431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ubuntu mostly. < 1280597436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of that won't actually be on your disk, I bet. < 1280597441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, correct. The actual image is larger < 1280597442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean used. < 1280597447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to deleted files < 1280597450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I meant used < 1280597458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. Link me to your guide -- is it the Moast Korrekt version? < 1280597480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps. I haven't documented getting hardcopy with cups-pdf though. < 1280597487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, reason is that it only works partly < 1280597494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you must disable cover page < 1280597495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about that. < 1280597499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280597524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this is the craziest chain of emulation ever: VM running x86 Ubuntu running a Tru64 Unix on Alpha emulator running Genera. < 1280597528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, while http://sprunge.us/fAfd is correct afaik, there could be errors < 1280597533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Genera is an operating system in and of itself. < 1280597536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have not proof read it much < 1280597548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's alright, I can sling it. < 1280597550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did single pass with aspell < 1280597557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caught one error only < 1280597584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think DKS is such a rabid salesman that he can't get angry at people downloading it. < 1280597597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dkschmidt at 2007-08-15 02:24 CET: < 1280597597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations on downloading the finest software development environment ever created. If you want to find out more about Genera or would like to have a Symbolics Lisp Machine, check out the Symbolics website at www.symbolics.com or contact sales@symbolics.com. < 1280597599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- comment on the torrent < 1280597613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another opportunity for a sale1 < 1280597614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sale! < 1280597621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he realises nobody's going to buy Open Genera anyway. < 1280597627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and to load cl-http, when everything else in there is done do: Load System CL-HTTP < 1280597630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't load config < 1280597641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will get 500 Internal Error after that < 1280597644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *splurts drink everywhere* < 1280597644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or 404 < 1280597645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VLM is a product for DEC Alpha / Tru64 Unix. There are experimental VLM versions for Linux/x64 and, newer, Mac OS X (x64). < 1280597655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god oh my god oh my god. < 1280597659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a native 64-bit linux version < 1280597662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must buy < 1280597662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where is that from? < 1280597662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must buy < 1280597663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must buy < 1280597671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um. that Linux/x64 is the one I used < 1280597671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrewnth: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/c8sjz/what_are_your_favorite_and_mostused_cl_projects/c0qxfjv < 1280597676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrewnth: no < 1280597677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean x86-64 of course < 1280597678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1280597678 0 :andrewnth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1280597681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using the tru64 version < 1280597684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrewnth: change your nick :| < 1280597692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is running in a x86-64 VM though < 1280597692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: emulated on linux/64 < 1280597694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280597696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1280597698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it's another layer of emulation < 1280597701 0 :andrewnth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay i'll change it < 1280597703 0 :andrewnth!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :andynth < 1280597703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this VLM is a native emulator for 64-bit linux < 1280597705 0 :andynth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better? ;) < 1280597709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just run it in a chroot < 1280597716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andynth: it's more the starting letters that are bothersome :D < 1280597726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, fixed < 1280597729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last-spoke order for nick completion now < 1280597743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so actually my chain of emulation was wrong, if it's Virtual Lisp Machine (VLM) < 1280597750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? < 1280597761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this is the craziest chain of emulation ever: VM running x86 Ubuntu running a Tru64 Unix on Alpha emulator running Genera on a Symbolics Lisp Machine. < 1280597774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open Genera doesn't run natively on Tru64 Unix; it emulates a Lisp Machine. VLM, Virtual Lisp Machine. < 1280597774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 < 1280597779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The VLM is a product for DEC Alpha / Tru64 Unix." < 1280597780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much < 1280597782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, right. < 1280597804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides I don't know if the source to snap4 is public < 1280597807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1280597807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this is the craziest chain of emulation ever: VM running x86-64 Ubuntu running a Tru64 Unix on Alpha emulator running Genera on a Symbolics Lisp Machine. < 1280597822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My point is: You're running /three layers of emulation/. < 1280597823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280597830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm well aware < 1280597840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we thought it ran Genera natively on Tru64. < 1280597844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not emulating a Lisp Machine. < 1280597847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1280597849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1280597858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I did think was that we skipped the Tru64 step < 1280597858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you're misunderstanding. < 1280597878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /think/ we do. < 1280597882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I read open genera docs. It mentions emulation < 1280597889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Anyway, with the x86-64 Linux VLM we could just run it in a chroot. < 1280597893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For, you know, moar speed. < 1280597902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you _don't_ wan't to mess up your system with NFS and NIS < 1280597903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And better mouse/keyboard stuffs. < 1280597911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is _why_ you want a VM < 1280597917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just serve it on a random port on just 127.0.0.1. < 1280597917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, skipping that would be nice < 1280597924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you have a url though? < 1280597958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what? < 1280597964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example in the snap4 version some arithmetic is broken and GC plus I/O often leads to crashes. Brad has fixed the complex arithmetic, but the error on the Genera side with GC has not been fixed yet." --lispm < 1280597967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x86-64 VLM < 1280597971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's commercial software. < 1280597975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You buy it. From Symbolics. < 1280597979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An experimental release. < 1280597981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1280597982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that the arithmetic is broken in part < 1280597984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it < 1280597990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might give it away for a reduced price, of course, since it's an experimental release. < 1280598001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're REALLY smooth with the ladies^W^W^W you might be able to get it free. < 1280598004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I would like a link to the snap5 then < 1280598016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Contact D.K.Schmidt. < 1280598019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll probably get a quote. < 1280598022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*D. K. Schmidt. < 1280598023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD < 1280598030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong guy for snap4/5 < 1280598036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sales@symbolics-dks.com < 1280598037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1280598043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contact is D. K. Schmidt < 1280598047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he handles all communication < 1280598056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was pretty sure it was a third party project < 1280598057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Send bug reports to Kalman Reti at reti@symbolics-dks.com" -- but it's a known, fixed bug, so. < 1280598060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap4 that is < 1280598060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1280598064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a Symbolics project. < 1280598075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they are a god damn shell company! < 1280598087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, they still develop. < 1280598093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, if you buy it, send me a copy < 1280598102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a license? < 1280598106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show me it. < 1280598109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you care? < 1280598126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you're depriving me. :) < 1280598145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1280598151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the VM. < 1280598160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which Stanislav uses Open Genera on a real Symbolics Tru64 Alpha machine: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=186. < 1280598166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have nowhere to put 2.4 GB < 1280598170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have slow ADSL upload < 1280598185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse engineering the whole thing would take less time! < 1280598212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error 503 Service Unavailable < 1280598212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Unavailable < 1280598212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guru Meditation: < 1280598212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XID: 959894884 < 1280598212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Varnish < 1280598214 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280598214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, T.P.B. < 1280598220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: At least seed the torrent :P < 1280598226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I could < 1280598234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, will take a few minutes < 1280598237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get that ready < 1280598250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could somehow import the file into ktorrent < 1280598252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it years ago < 1280598254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :year* < 1280598255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I downloaded it it ran at like 1 KiB/s. < 1280598269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah: download the .torrent file, tell it to download where the file already is. < 1280598273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3769989/Symbolics_Open_Genera_2.0_for_Alpha_-_complete_package_with_Lisp ) < 1280598273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, /msg me the url to the torrent < 1280598278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late. < 1280598284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did /msg you; just a lot of other people, too. < 1280598351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scps the file
< 1280598360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't suppose you're the peer I'm downloading from at 600 KiB/s, are you. < 1280598385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: scps what? o_O < 1280598409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, opengenera2.tar.bz2 from laptop to desktop < 1280598423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't have port forwarding set up on laptop < 1280598427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and seeding now < 1280598455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the kick peer and ban peer options
< 1280598461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I always wondered what those did < 1280598471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what the difference was < 1280598481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh I expect you to seed this to a ratio of 2 then < 1280598505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure collectively, all the times I start Transmission and then take a second to pause it, it will eventually add up to 2. >_> < 1280598514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the reason democracy doesn't work! < 1280598519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, really, I will seed it. < 1280598520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey 64 % already < 1280598524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are downloading fast < 1280598527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :72%. < 1280598532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are looking at the wrong guy. < 1280598535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :75%... < 1280598541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost 800 KiB/s download. Pretty nice. < 1280598546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oop, went down there. < 1280598548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some very very fast other peer then < 1280598559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; I'm getting 400-600 KiB/s from them. < 1280598571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else using Transmission. 18.238.1.85. < 1280598576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280598588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be D, K. Smitch (sp?) himself? ;P < 1280598603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85.1.238.18.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer UNCLE-ENZO.MIT.EDU. < 1280598627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you seeding now? < 1280598631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Host Name: UNCLE-ENZO.MIT.EDU < 1280598640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's that legendary university internet. < 1280598640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see above < 1280598647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeding to 0 people. Blame them. < 1280598655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well keep it ready there < 1280598660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seeded this when people hadn't got it < 1280598666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm done seeding for now < 1280598711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell you what, I'll seed aliseOS to you when it's out. :P < 1280598759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nobody likes me enough to take my seed. < 1280598766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have a better idea, since it will take less time < 1280598767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... that was an awkward way to say that. < 1280598771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280598781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, seed DNF when it is out < 1280598789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will take MUCH less time < 1280598793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Chinese Democracy! Wait... that /did/ come out. < 1280598794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than waiting for aliseOS < 1280598804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, out of china yes < 1280598812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the album. :P < 1280598870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I never heard of that < 1280598905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guns N' Roses released Use Your Illusion I & II in 1991, then toured for something like a few billion years, then finally released Chinese Democracy, promised since 1992, at the end of 2008. < 1280598913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about the ridiculously long wait and anticipation than the music. < 1280598955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took longer than DNF took to die; so, yeah. < 1280598961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, apparently someone picked up the DNF torch. < 1280598967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developer(s) 3D Realms (1997–) < 1280598967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown external developer (2009–) < 1280599043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-07-26-bonustholomew.gif < 1280599496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This spam has introduced me to my new favorite word ever: < 1280599498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesbimans! < 1280599568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a ... lesbian ... man? < 1280599609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! < 1280599612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's my favorite word ever. < 1280599649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280599656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why doesn't it work with newer Ubuntus, again? < 1280599753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something with the X server, wasn't it? < 1280599807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking through zzo's site is weird... < 1280599818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280599825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280599906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Weird or AWESOME? < 1280599907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :| < 1280599921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, just the images directory is weird. < 1280600013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Chronojournal has been spammed so much it's not even funny. < 1280600051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see further down < 1280600054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it says XIO < 1280600069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I tried the first 8.x version < 1280600071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am an orphan and consequently unable to read )( < 1280600087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well then what I write here has no use either. < 1280600095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer reads words to me < 1280600095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't read IRC either < 1280600097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only here < 1280600103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other places there is no talking < 1280600104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl driving practise < 1280600107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I see are pictures. Sometimes they are nice < 1280600652 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :driving practie? < 1280600769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Praktie. < 1280600869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precis? < 1280601571 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280601613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much RAM Open Genera needs. < 1280601719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1280601730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1280601745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does anyone else think writing a Lisp OS that can run on modern hardware is a sensible idea? < 1280601753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sensible/cool/ < 1280601753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Loper guy. < 1280601757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean apart from me? Or apart from you? < 1280601775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:11 02:37:04 He would be an ideal candidate for a Halloween costume. < 1280601779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:08:15 I'm afraid he's dead. < 1280601785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a good idea -- well, not Lisp, but the same idea as Lisp Machine O-- anyway, yes; the Loper OS guy [warning: controversial half-crank, but clever]; me; ... < 1280601786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not _necessary_ a disadvantage. < 1280601790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: xD < 1280601804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may try that this October. < 1280601813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps someone will get it. < 1280601822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: make sure it can persist lisp objects rather than a silly filesystem! < 1280601830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ily < 1280601852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how much ram does open genera need < 1280601855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1280601857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 4 GiB < 1280601865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that will probably be enough. < 1280601886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1280601888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it was designed for what, 90s hardware? < 1280601890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give the vm the default < 1280601892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :384 MiB < 1280601894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: much less < 1280601896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 80s hardware < 1280601905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to run ubuntu, running an Alpha emulator, running a Lisp Machine emulator, running Genera < 1280601907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is overhead < 1280601911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 384 should be plenty. absolutely plenty. < 1280601929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's a lot of layers. < 1280601932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You should have a 300 mHz or greater Alpha workstation with at least < 1280601932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500 MB RAM, 4 MB cache and 1 GB of available disk space." < 1280601933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. < 1280601937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give it 512 MiB. < 1280601939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an onion. < 1280601950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably excessive, but dammit, I have over 3 GiB free. < 1280601965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thos pesky millihertz < 1280601969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those < 1280601975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to create a new virtual machine Open Genera. < 1280601975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runtime error: -102 (File not found.). < 1280601976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abuh. < 1280601997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it uninstalled VirtualBox. < 1280601997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1280602068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, if you do make a Lisp OS: You are awesome. If you make a Lisp OS that, instead of a filesystem, automatically persists the Lisp objects in the system with a certain marker on them -- say, with a "persist" flag set -- to disk, and automatically reloads them on bootup (note: this is /easier/ than implementing a filesystem) -- you are quadruply awesome and should breed immediately. < 1280602112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's a lovely idea, but I enjoy programming, and as such am a terrible developer. < 1280602128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, x86-64 is a drag. < 1280602141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The main issue is the Lisp implementation. < 1280602151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't really want to write it in C because then you get all the baggage of, you know, C, which is sort of against the point. < 1280602161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BitC! < 1280602161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But writing a JIT compiler in assembly? [suicide.] < 1280602180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT... Assembly... (seppuku) < 1280602180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... LowLevelLisp macro DSL in whatever Lisp you are implementing! < 1280602182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fack < 1280602185 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact < 1280602186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fack! < 1280602208 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing jit compiler in assembly is not so hard < 1280602228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but... not for us high-level guys. < 1280602230 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esepcially if you're targetting simple processors without MMU and other useless shit < 1280602234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, VirtualBox supports EFI. < 1280602235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, use an existing CL (or Scheme) compiler and modify it? < 1280602238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: x86-64 :P < 1280602241 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280602246 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's suicide < 1280602246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Those will be heavily existing-OS-oriented. < 1280602262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could base it on Movitz, but nobody likes Movitz. < 1280602270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hmm. < 1280602314 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/160/c/5/Talk_to_Me_1_by_humon.jpg :D < 1280602359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can we not bother with x86-32? < 1280602388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No point to support it for a new OS. < 1280602405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 64-bit is very helpful because you can map the entire object space to address space. < 1280602407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1280602417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, say, some large 64-bit pointer will actually be a serialised object on disk, but of course this is transparently handled. < 1280602422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also, you have actual, proper GPRs. < 1280602429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you don't have to actually directly deal with mapping things; it can be transparent, in the paging. < 1280602441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, it means that you have more space for type tags. < 1280602449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. < 1280602474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you identify, say, 10 types in a tag, that's four bits, so you still get 60 bits. < 1280602484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And today's CPUs don't even /use/ all 60 bits to look up memory. < 1280602497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although IIRC there's some restriction on the higher bits; pikhq? < 1280602498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, risky < 1280602500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can always use the lower bits. < 1280602505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I don't mean just pass that pointer. < 1280602506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sign-extended. < 1280602512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously if it's a pointer, you >> 4. < 1280602514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then look it up. < 1280602523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you tag the lower bits. < 1280602525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is safe. < 1280602542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1280602545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, an instruction for each memory access seems wasteful. < 1280602590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nah, not really. < 1280602598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Memory access is very slow compared to CPU anyway. < 1280602600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OTOH there's CCL's strategy, which is to align all objects. < 1280602603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the overhead is unnoticeable. < 1280602611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That also works, yes, but you probably want more than just integers vs objects. < 1280602629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CCL get something like 7 tag bits. < 1280602630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Booleans, characters, symbols... identifying these in the pointer is useful. < 1280602638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially type of number, since that makes polymorphic arithmetic a lot quicker. < 1280602643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah, so it aligns it even more. < 1280602667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's 3 bits, so... < 1280602683 0 :Flonk_!~chatzilla@93-82-39-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280602690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That would work, yes. < 1280602695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably the best idea. < 1280602703 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some papers about machine lisp? < 1280602713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, they're probably boring. < 1280602723 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not implement machine lisp on some spartan core < 1280602756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine lisp on lisp machine core. < 1280602778 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280602780 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1280602782 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1280602783 0 :Flonk_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Flonk < 1280602818 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp machine on FPGA < 1280602831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1280602835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fpga is slow though :D < 1280602841 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm < 1280602843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: do you have project ADHD? < 1280602853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to a degree. < 1280602860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dammit. < 1280602863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost got excited. < 1280602882 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably emulating lisp machine on x86 is slow as well < 1280602889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OTOH I've never actually done a project with anyone else's knowledge. < 1280602922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can help with everything that isn't actually writing assembly. < 1280602929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Organising an object model in memory" is my idea of fun. < 1280603013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we abstract the hard drive away entirely? < 1280603069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of course. < 1280603074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME < 1280603086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Basically, every allocated object gets a unique position in address space. Obviously. The thing is, this does not correlate to physical memory. < 1280603094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get addresses in the very high numbers, theoretically. < 1280603095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. < 1280603103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Lisp, in the object system underlying everything or whatever we have, < 1280603108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every object has a flag -- "persist". < 1280603111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely we want to move oft-used objects into memory? < 1280603115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280603117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is set, then every N intervals, < 1280603123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is saved to disk with its address. < 1280603131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever an object is used, it is loaded into RAM (or at least, if it can all be). < 1280603144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects that have not been used for a while give way to new objects to be loaded. < 1280603152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada: We remove the filesystem, replace it with orthogonal object persistence, AND < 1280603154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects never change addresses < 1280603157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even over boots. < 1280603170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't lose data more than N intervals old if it's set to persist; it will reappear on the next boot. < 1280603177 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280603188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: You never have to touch the disk. All you ever do is set "persistent" and never have to worry. < 1280603195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some reinitialisation to do with sockets, yes, but that's easy enough to handle. < 1280603246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if N is high you'd presumably want to be able to force storage. < 1280603258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N would not be high. < 1280603269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd keep a list of "dirty" (changed) objects, so the writes would never be large. < 1280603281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can do them, say, every .5 seconds. < 1280603289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be configurable from inside, I guess. < 1280603317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is called "orthogonal" persistence. It is quite a well-known thing and has had a bit of research done. < 1280603318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 has paging, doesn't it? < 1280603321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1280603325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280603354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about fragmentation? < 1280603354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In fact, I even suspect you could do deduplicative storage and thereby /version every change to a persisted object/. But that's much more theoretical, and harder. < 1280603362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fragmentation on disk? < 1280603374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280603397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When an object is GCed, presumably you remove it from the disc? < 1280603399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a huge problem any more, what with the speed of disks and the rising popularity of SSDs. While this is a toy, of course it will never make a difference; when it becomes practical... well, that'll take so long we'll all be using SSDs anyway. < 1280603409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but an object with the persist flag set is never GC'd. < 1280603427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't serialise every old object (you can almost do this automatically, but again that's much more theoretical) < 1280603442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could presumably design the OS based around having both an SSD and a platter. < 1280603454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but ... I'd just treat disk seeking as instant. < 1280603472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, /all/ your RAM will be used to store all the objects it can. < 1280603488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it won't be totally optimal, but once SSDs become very popular (soon) it'll be just fine. < 1280603494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, scheduling and the like on SSDs only hurts performance. < 1280603499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since this would initially just be a toy, well... < 1280603515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I am without an SSD, though. < 1280603524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So am I. < 1280603530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But are you going to do your everyday computing on this soon? < 1280603533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely. < 1280603539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, NO AMBITION < 1280603546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aspire to own an SSD, then. < 1280603557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll be affordable in a few years, when this thing might actually be able to edit its own code. :P < 1280603587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280603596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the bootloader and partitions? < 1280603614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You /could/ use GRUB... but if we're even not doing C, hell; just write our own. < 1280603618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have to switch into long mode anyway. < 1280603621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, make partitions and the bootloader lisp objects! < 1280603624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard to write a bootloader. < 1280603627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That makes no sense, good sir. < 1280603639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, So? < 1280603653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point. < 1280603728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What; my processor doesn't do virtualisation. < 1280603728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes sense to a /degree/. < 1280603738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So does banana-flavoured cheese. < 1280603739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor mine, as far as I can tell. < 1280603747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OMG < 1280603749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't do 64-bit with VirtualBox. Bet QEMU can do it. < 1280603751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must make that. < 1280603755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION barfs
< 1280603778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using VB for writing bootloaders and such doesn't seem like such a good idea. < 1280603804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox you mean? < 1280603807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm just trying Open Genera. < 1280603836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For actual OS development you usually want Bochs. < 1280603837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I mean VirtualBox. Writing bootloaders in Visual Basic is so stupid it's almost cool. < 1280603846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow as molasses, but you can do debug output and even some debugging (this is hellish). < 1280603863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Bochs when shit is fucked up, QEMU when shit is cool. < 1280604097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are we writing our own bootloader or not? < 1280604142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Wait ... are we coding /now/? < 1280604152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold up there boy, there's an awful lot of planning and procrastinating to do first! :D < 1280604202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1280604211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280604247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course to the first question or the second statement? < 1280604288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second. < 1280604291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We should probably decide on the actual Lisp. Proper Common Lisp would take 50 years to implement all the subtleties of Roman numeral formatting and LOOP and whatnot, so I'd suggest that that's out. But Scheme is ... not ideal for this, obviously. < 1280604299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore I propose the obviously superior solution, that of designing our own dialect. < 1280604313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleasepleaseplease tell me we don't have to use GAS. < 1280604315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked for the Symbolics guys! < 1280604319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. < 1280604321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate GAS. < 1280604332 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1280604333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What say you to yasm? < 1280604342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like nasm, except BSD-licensed. :P < 1280604348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's good. < 1280604404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're like me when I even had the necessary amount of self-delusion to convince myself to start big projects! And I LIKE that. :P < 1280604406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as I don't have to grapple with AT&T indirection, I'm good. < 1280604468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, presumably you know assembly; that's handy, as I ... don't, not more than the absolute basics. < 1280604676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So presumably the whole computer is the lisp image? < 1280604825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh? < 1280604866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a half-formed thought.... < 1280604887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1280604954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have in mind for the dialect? < 1280605082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing much; immutable conses, there's always a popular one. :P < 1280605224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immutable conses seem a bit weird for a low-level system. < 1280605298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perhaps, but actually mutating conses basically never comes up in code. Not in well-designed code, anyway. < 1280605304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're iterating over that cons... /ouch/ < 1280605310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, over the list with that cons in it. < 1280605322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true, but functions like nreverse can be useful. < 1280605346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversing a linked list is slow. < 1280605362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But building a new one is slower, isn't it? < 1280605365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you are correct. < 1280605391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Erm, that's pretty much what you have to do. < 1280605394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider the structure of the cons cells. < 1280605411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but you don't need to copy their contents. < 1280605414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you have to iterate through all of them, to find the last element; save the car of the first node, set the car of the first node to the last one. < 1280605422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You end up copying all the values and changing the cars of all of them. < 1280605431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This won't be significantly faster than just creating new conses. < 1280605444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it works by changing the cdrs, though. < 1280605450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, if we prioritised performance over safety... < 1280605450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cars don't enter into it. < 1280605461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah, like that. That'd be even slower then, I think. < 1280605486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, slower than making new versions of every cons? < 1280605490 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280605495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consing is fast, you know. :) < 1280605541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suppose... < 1280605554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you are right. < 1280605556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1280605565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH even Scheme doesn't have immutable conses. < 1280605572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if we are not careful we could end up with "C++ -- the S-Expression edition". < 1280605579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Racket does, by default. < 1280605591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Previously, PLT "I Can't Believe It's Not R5RS" Scheme.) < 1280605602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this broke very few programs in the wild. < 1280605608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, alise, reversing a list by reversing the cdr's basically means copying integers around < 1280605613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be slow < 1280605622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, they just had to change it to m(cons|car|cdr|set-car!|set-cdr!). < 1280605632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, i never said it would be slow < 1280605635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just slower than the car method < 1280605637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more book keeping < 1280605639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i'm misunderstanding < 1280605644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Phantom_Hoover: Ah, like that. That'd be even slower then, I think." < 1280605654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the car method < 1280605661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1280605663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, then < 1280605673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway you can easily have a mutable cons type too < 1280605693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more local to switch cdr's than car's) < 1280605694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does yasm support 888ASM style syntax? < 1280605696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have a vague recollection that that's the defined behaviour... < 1280605697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: obviously we should have some CLOS-style object system underpinning everything, if we want every object (well, apart from things like integers) to have a persist flag (and because it's generally useful) < 1280605700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-dispatch, definitely. < 1280605721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably not; they're not psychic, so they can't instantly know of and implement your new projects. < 1280605725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you've told them? < 1280605744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought '(1 2 3) was technically immutable, while (list 1 2 3) is guaranteed mutable. < 1280605752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Of course I know they are not psychic < 1280605774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean, if the way the program works is sufficient to make 888ASM style syntax work < 1280605788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I imagine if you modified the code... < 1280605798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Or: defined a bunch of macros. < 1280605823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In Scheme? I don't know. < 1280605831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not worry about what They do, anyway. :P < 1280605843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A major blocker for this project will be the UI... because UIs suck >_> < 1280605850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAA < 1280605863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we can advertise for a masochist? < 1280605896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you need a UI? < 1280605904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no. < 1280605913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the old Lisp machines had them, so... < 1280605934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, in a technical sense, yes. It's the "G" that sucks. < 1280605991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what was the relationship between quines and TCness. I seem to remember there was one. < 1280605992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you trying to make a Lisp machine? < 1280606003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We need /some/ interface. < 1280606016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all TC machines with sufficient output capabilities have quines (fixed-point theorem for turing machines) < 1280606017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course. < 1280606025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A UI is an interface, not just a graphical one. < 1280606034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, I'm sure we can come up with something. < 1280606035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, O < 1280606039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hardly a current problem, anyway. < 1280606052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we can just make an scsh clone? < 1280606054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do suggest we use graphical capabilities, even for a linear interface like a command line. Because that lets us do things like images and stuff easily. < 1280606060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's no fun! < 1280606065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want little persisted objects on the screen. < 1280606076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Lisp machine, but for Forth it is easy to just make it display "ok" and allow any commands to be typed in at the "ok" prompt. For Lisp, I don't know, but I suppose you can do something < 1280606086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can we map the screen to a Lisp object? < 1280606104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Everything is a Lisp object, dammit! < 1280606109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be epic. < 1280606123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even C has the screen as a C "object" (pointer). < 1280606142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought the screen was done through port I/O. < 1280606153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least above a certain level. < 1280606160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280606168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done via memory (controlled by the video card). < 1280606175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you can do fancy stuff by talking to the video card; but pixel blitting is memory. < 1280606187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, that helps. < 1280606201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What helps? < 1280606204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talking to the card? < 1280606210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly unneeded unless you're doing complicated graphics. < 1280606213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, mmappedness. < 1280606215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280606218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's mapped from the card. < 1280606250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was about to say "we don't even have to support USB", but the PS/2 emulation is done by the BIOS and you can't talk to the BIOS in long mode; plus it's so slow why would you want to?. < 1280606263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But USB is easy. < 1280606273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And VMs can do PS/2 mice and keyboards to start with :P < 1280606468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OK, so the text UI is done with mmapping? < 1280606485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are confused: < 1280606490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VGA text mode is done with mmapping. < 1280606494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is video mode in everything. < 1280606499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Simple blitting video mode.) < 1280606509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, delegate the UI work to me, I'll enjoy it :P < 1280606644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1280606650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text mode just uses put directly in memory, the ASCII in one byte and the next one is the colors < 1280606665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it is CP437 ASCII < 1280606667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, finding decent docs for low-level display code is difficult. < 1280606676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can change the font, though. < 1280606677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280606682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's all in OSdev material. < 1280606697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried looking through OSDev, but in vain. < 1280606704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, text mode is not worth bothering with after you get stuff running, apart from debug; actually doing stuff with text mode is a bitch with all the wrapping and scrolling and everything. < 1280606706 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know how the memory is laid out for text mode and for CGA modes < 1280606715 0 :Vegabondmx!~Vegabonds@unaffiliated/vegabondsx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280606718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you can do more fun, object-y Lisp UIs with graphical stuff. :P < 1280606729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I do not like WIMP GUIs. < 1280606730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably because MediaWiki's search function sucks. < 1280606743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you like, then? < 1280606748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an automatically tiling (but mouse controlled layout; like Plan 9's acme, if you've used it) object display? < 1280606751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell yeah! < 1280606753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use the BIOS to write text to the screen < 1280606762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object display: Literally, "windows" (frames) are objects with a view. < 1280606772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use an Emacs-style buffer switcher "on steroids", too. < 1280606781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also some floating windows, for displaying some objects. < 1280606793 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h121.42.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280606817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of course, my UI ideas are not very fleshed out because I'm a hopeless visionary. < 1280606833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since this project has ... slightly lower ambitions ... than aliseOS, I should be able to cook up something awesome. < 1280606858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is aliseOS, then? < 1280606868 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESBIMANS < 1280606874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's... uh... < 1280606883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know Feather? < 1280606890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1280606893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the stage where ais523 is with Feather, the bit he can explain? < 1280606897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't even got there yet. < 1280606899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of. < 1280606900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh. < 1280606914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know vaguely of it, but I don't know where he got stuck. < 1280606955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have some ideas and when I get a new computer and write Linux distribution I will write a window manager with my own ideas < 1280606958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, aliseOS will make you toast, take over the internet so you have some more computing power, make your mind explode every time you use it, and sexually gratify your dog*. < 1280606969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Advanced edition only. < 1280606987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: all TC machines with sufficient output capabilities have quines (fixed-point theorem for turing machines) < 1280606988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280607001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseOS is limit of OS as awesome goes to infinity < 1280607046 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have a dog < 1280607057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It will buy you a dog first. < 1280607088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't need a dog < 1280607095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about this one: The source code consists of the letter "b" followed by a bf program. The "b" is mandatory. When executed the implementation begins by outputting the letter c as the first char. < 1280607096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the dog will be cuddly, you see. < 1280607108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: again, this does not have the necessary output capabilities < 1280607119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have been quantified i think but i don't think we've done more than discuss them < 1280607126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to quantify them at some point but haven't yet < 1280607131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :david madore has written about this AnMaster < 1280607132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can you specify what exactly "sufficient output capabilities" is < 1280607141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i just said. < 1280607143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280607147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't want a dog < 1280607152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want is the source-codes < 1280607164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/quine.html < 1280607171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this has a detailed explanation of the fixed point theorem < 1280607177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep /The fixed-point theorem/ < 1280607221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yow! I've just lost the SOURCE CODE for all my QUINE PROGRAMS! What will I DO NOW with just the BINARIES?" -- David Madore < 1280607234 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes I have seen that quotation < 1280607241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copied it into FORTUNE file, even < 1280607273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how does one access persistent objects after a reboot? < 1280607305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um. The system automatically restores the state of the previous session. < 1280607308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the objects are persistent. < 1280607316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you have to store all memory state in hard-drive < 1280607317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the window manager will have the "open objects" persisted. < 1280607324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can restore exactly the state of before < 1280607325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will try to show them on screen, which will cause them to be loaded from disk. < 1280607329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc., etc., etc. recursively. < 1280607340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so shutting down is the same as hibernating on lesser OSes? < 1280607355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that you might have to reinitialize some things of other hardware < 1280607369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, except... the RAM is written every .5 seconds while running, not all at once. < 1280607384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, this means that if you trip over your power cord, you never miss more than N intervals (e.g. .5 seconds) of work. < 1280607386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, you know, good. < 1280607400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is possibly the coolest feature ever. < 1280607424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will be bothering with multiple processes, won't we? < 1280607447 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280607476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define processes. < 1280607544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it that fuzzy? < 1280607555 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h33.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280607579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are no processes, really, if everything is just living objects. < 1280607617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what if you want to interleave two things at once? < 1280607620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at objects on the screen, you modify them, pass them to other objects: where is the process? there are long-running background things, like say in "threads"; there are the object's paintings on the screen, which they are told to do by the UI... < 1280607628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are their reactions to the buttons you press. < 1280607646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "process" is a vague concept, both for merely object display/mutation /and/ long-running computation: and we have no need of it. < 1280607677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so your text editor can fiddle with the WM's internals? < 1280607687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea of the BIOS, is, to be compatible with IBM PC BIOS calls, and if there is no boot devices, or you push DELETE key while booting, or you just configured it to do so, or if the operating system attempts to switch to ROM BASIC, then it shall enter interactive Forth mode and display the "ok" on the screen. < 1280607688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No: this is why we have sandboxing. < 1280607702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way, note that the WM's internals would be /private/ to it; so there is no real worry there; but we can have proper sandboxing too. < 1280607771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OK, so we have threading? < 1280607804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not threading as the pthreads and C folk know it; perhaps something more rigorous, without shared state. < 1280607809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? It's almost an active research topic. < 1280607812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we look at what Oberon does. < 1280607834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a similar objects-not-processes model, and it's well-designed; it will help. < 1280607837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS or the language? < 1280607841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS. < 1280607845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which /is/ the language, in a way. < 1280607874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me what is wrong with this program? http://sprunge.us/BgPV http://sprunge.us/UjTE < 1280607888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What error does it result in? < 1280607909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\parindent=0.1pt? What, why the .1pt? < 1280607930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do suggest that you use LaTeX. < 1280607955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many errors, including "Missing } inserted", also there is a copy of one of the pages near the end of the document copied at the beginning of the printout, and the tables have no lines and won't wrap like HTML tables do. < 1280607974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "An efficient multitasking model is supported in a single-process by using short-running commands and cooperative background task handlers." < 1280607975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make it wrap and stuff like HTML tables do? < 1280607981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This would need to be adjusted for SMP. < 1280607993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: missing } inserted -- you have a } missing somewhere < 1280608004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and if you use LaTeX, it includes a table environment that does everything < 1280608010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing it yourself will be hard < 1280608043 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output written on srcprint.pdf (1449 pages, 20374279 bytes). http://i.imgur.com/2eX2x.jpg < 1280608045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LaTeX do like HTML tables that can be wrapped? < 1280608052 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it can < 1280608073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What filesystem do floppies use again? Fat-12? < 1280608086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could use whatever. < 1280608090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Output written on srcprint.pdf (1449 pages, 20374279 bytes). http://i.imgur.com/2eX2x.jpg < 1280608090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1280608104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, true. < 1280608119 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha I AM PRINTING 1449 PAGES OF SOURCE CODE ON LEGAL-SIZED PAPER DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT ALISE < 1280608127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems Oberon is not in any existing filesystem. < 1280608131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Can you... afford that? < 1280608142 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um < 1280608148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean. < 1280608150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not afford it. < 1280608152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the waste of paper. < 1280608156 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1280608168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1449 pages is rather a lot for a pointless print-out. < 1280608168 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you asking if I have that much paper? < 1280608176 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not pointless at all < 1280608181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just asking whether you really don't have anything better to do with it :p < 1280608200 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what you're asking < 1280608204 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm printing it so I can read it < 1280608210 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annotate, mark up < 1280608212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code looks far too small on that paper. < 1280608221 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is small < 1280608241 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want to print Output written on srcprint.pdf (3628 pages, 32294410 bytes). < 1280608242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the page numbers in the table of contents are wrong, and there is a copy of page 28 before the first page of the table of contents, although Yap says it is page 26 < 1280608261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page it is a copy of is labeled 26 in the table of contents, though < 1280608286 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you pass it through latex twice < 1280608300 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have roman numeral pages at the start < 1280608309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I passed it through Plain TeX once < 1280608313 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1280608321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I need any twice passes? < 1280608342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put everything in a macro and make it call the macro multiple times < 1280608350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that is like multiple passes, a bit? < 1280608365 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In latex usually you pass it through a few times to resolve references and counts and stuff < 1280608434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, see the http://sprunge.us/BgPV the part \def\PrintDocument that is the macro I am making it multiple times to resolve references and counts and stuff. < 1280608497 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also can you tell me if you found a mistake in the other file http://sprunge.us/UjTE < 1280608572 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can find the part I missed?? < 1280608815 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the file http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/printout/main.dvi is the printout, you can see what is wrong with page-numbers and you can see some of the text is off of the page, and the other problems < 1280608918 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me how to correct these problems? < 1280609069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why is it in landscape? < 1280609074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the margins awful? Aieee, please use LaTeX. < 1280609086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't in landscape? < 1280609090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is for me. < 1280609123 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your computer converted it to landscape because there is text off of the page < 1280609125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/tunes.html < 1280609132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do I use LaTeX? < 1280609141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Pretty easily. < 1280609141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems similar to what alise had in mind, to a degree. < 1280609151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get rid of almost all your definitions; LaTeX includes those features. < 1280609155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The table of contents is correct except for the page numbers, as you should be able to see. < 1280609163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TUNES is the One True Idealist OS; 1995 to present, not a single bit of development. < 1280609167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as old as I am. < 1280609176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The founder, Fare, is a fan of Lisp machines. < 1280609180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280609183 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you 15 < 1280609185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the document for how to use those features in LaTeX? < 1280609192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Not even that. Well, in a few weeks, I suppose. < 1280609200 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you seriously 15 < 1280609205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could read the LaTeX manual; that probably comes with your distribution; or you could use a tutorial, like Wikibooks'. < 1280609209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: 14. < 1280609214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX < 1280609220 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: show me a photo < 1280609222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just start at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Document_Structure. < 1280609224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: No. < 1280609234 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: k < 1280609278 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I can see the Wikibooks file now < 1280609290 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1280609376 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to learn how LaTeX works though, so that I can know how to write those kind of macros < 1280609382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this is going to be very different to a conventional OS, isn't it? < 1280609428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Extraordinarily. < 1280609447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No concept of binaries, filesystems, conventional UIs... other languages... < 1280609448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I don't know much about OS design... < 1280609459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix-style OS design is extraordinarily boring, of course. < 1280609460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the things like "\subsection*" can be used to implement the "==Pragma TeX OmitFromContents" that I have? < 1280609473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They're basically very complicated macros. Well, not that complicated. < 1280609478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah. < 1280609558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I still don't understand how we do two things at once. < 1280609593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icosahedral RPG is not like a scientific article/report, though. < 1280609617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Complicatedly. < 1280609622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That is alright. < 1280609629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the article or book class will suit your needs. Maybe memoir. < 1280609639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what if I want to omit the \author part? < 1280609640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memoir is like all the classes in one. < 1280609663 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably book class should I use? < 1280609674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\author{} < 1280609676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\date{} < 1280609684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used the book class. I'd use either article or memoir. < 1280609687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is supposed to be like a book, that you can print out and bind it as a book and published < 1280609694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memoir is a very good class for books. < 1280609708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it says \chapter is only for books and reports < 1280609708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the same commands as article class. < 1280609717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\chapter works fine in memoir. < 1280609726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you actually know how it will be done? < 1280609729 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. The description on Wikibooks does not mention it. < 1280609750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the memoir class good for publishing a book? < 1280609759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf Very comprehensive documentation of memoir. < 1280609762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good. < 1280609768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does book typography and the like by default. < 1280609780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can ignore most of the typographical, formatting stuff in the memoir manual; it's very excessive. < 1280610036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how are we doing the implementation? < 1280610058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Complicatedly! < 1280610076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda, etc.? < 1280610127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are commands such as \def and \newcount and so on still usable in LaTeX? < 1280610217 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Icosahedral RPG rules is meant to be printed in black&white, except for the cover art which can be colored. < 1280610251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, though for commands you should use \defcommand. < 1280610264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why. < 1280610281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1280610282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\newcommand < 1280610292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emerson.emory.edu/services/latex/latex_19.html < 1280610322 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280610390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LaTeX still use Plain TeX or is stuff defined in plain.tex unavailable? < 1280610407 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280610416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use Plain TeX, but it has analogues for all the commands. < 1280610425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Plain TeX /might/ work with LaTeX. < 1280610437 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280610571 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use Plain TeX for some things, because there are some things in LaTeX which I don't like < 1280610609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what? < 1280610998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there is the problem of still not automatically wrapping text in columns < 1280611019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do that with the icoruma.tex macros that I have, either, it also has the same problem < 1280611047 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280611082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you do it like HTML where it will automatically determine the proper widths for wrapping the text in the tables? < 1280611253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: latex can do columns < 1280611256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twocolumn environment or something < 1280611259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it multicol < 1280611264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does do that with the tables < 1280611352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I just think "D&D - flatland edition" < 1280611369 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What? < 1280611371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be some interesting dice though < 1280611394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do you know what flatland refers to? < 1280611416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes < 1280611464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so this would be D&D for a 2D world, with some 2D replacement for dices < 1280611555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, polygons> < 1280611563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anything, it's better. < 1280611865 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280611885 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see however, that LaTeX does have a lot of stuff useful for Icoruma, such as \begin{enumerate} for <+> and \begin{itemize} for <-> < 1280611892 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-39-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280611985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how would you toss one, you wouldn't have gravity? < 1280612005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you did, then people would have to climb over each other < 1280612043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, throw them at a sticky surface? < 1280612051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the \footnote command works differently? < 1280612073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you seem to forget the 2D nature of this < 1280612091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wouldn't you only have one, the one you are in? < 1280612122 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-228-98.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280612122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sticky line perhaps < 1280612151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, surface <=> line. < 1280612192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1280612213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that could work < 1280612435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: \footnote{text} < 1280612442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or \footnotemark[number] < 1280612445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then \footnotetext[num]{...} < 1280612488 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our world seems pretty easy to two-dimensionalise. Just squeeze it between two plates that are really close together. < 1280612664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The LaTeX \footnote{text} works fine for Icoruma, but it is different than Plain TeX? < 1280612676 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is the command to activate LaTeX? < 1280612677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Howso? < 1280612686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With LaTeX, run the "latex" binary instead of "tex". < 1280612693 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1280612736 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When entering "latex" it says it is pdfTeX < 1280612763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I want DVI? < 1280612810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdfTeX outputs dvi too by default < 1280612815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you enter pdflatex will it output pdf < 1280612823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1280612825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdfTeX has non-PDF features too like typography and stuff that LaTeX utilises < 1280612872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is why it is pdfTeX < 1280613159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you are doing a book, I suggest using document class memoir. < 1280613176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use 10, 11 or 12pt text size (and it will scale the rest accordingly) with \documentclass[NNpt]{memoir} < 1280613177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what alise's opinion of things like Wt and Blitzen is
< 1280613198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wt is strange. i don't like it much -- link to blitzen? < 1280613218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blitzen.sourceforge.net/new/index.php < 1280613226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar, except for C/GObject < 1280613251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you any good at UIs? < 1280613269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I plan to become decent quickly < 1280613278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning on making a UI toolkit < 1280613362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, the OS! Which is now my favourite someone-else's-project. < 1280613366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also problem, SEP both ways. < 1280613391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure you manage my crazy ideas which I am likely to suggest >_> < 1280613392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not necessarily graphical. < 1280613399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey that's my job :D < 1280613404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm crazy too, though! < 1280613409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you sane? < 1280613419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sgeo invented PSOX < 1280613427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's insane in the "Oh, jesus." way :| < 1280613516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, I'm making a GUI toolkit < 1280613518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1280613529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, you haven't been exposed to us for long. < 1280613566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're saying e still has time to save emself? < 1280613580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280613584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no. We want to experiment on him. < 1280613586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1280613597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: Hypergeometric spatial disk organisation for deduplicative Lisp morphism storage theory. < 1280613603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll throw insanity at 'im and see what sticks. < 1280613616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how is it hypergeometric? < 1280613627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because. < 1280613643 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: exatly. < 1280613649 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c < 1280613683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, need layout control, widgets (there will be 2), and events (clicking) < 1280613687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, he /is/ sufficiently crazy. < 1280613688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else? < 1280613694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why are you doing that? < 1280613706 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to make writing a HUD for Active Worlds sane < 1280613712 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only word in this sentence I really understood was 'for' < 1280613717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you plan to handle updating the UI without user interaction? < 1280613746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, you know Lisp? < 1280613752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking is a user interaction, right? But it needs to be updated separately from that, so < 1280613787 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've never done anything with it < 1280613812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, what alise is talking about is abstracting away the disk completely. < 1280613818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i was talking about babble < 1280613823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only half of those words were meaningful < 1280613827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed. < 1280613839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other half were about abstracting away the disc. < 1280613846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bibbles
< 1280613850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISIDTID < 1280614059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, dammit, be sane! < 1280614065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, insane! < 1280614072 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-sane! < 1280614081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we have no shortage of the insane! < 1280614103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you think of the ideas so far presented? < 1280614104 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hence my comment saying that they're partly mocking it, i'd kick them in the least... not working with the standard ( which it does regularly) they all roll on their backs and wave their paws in the air and point out that i have < 1280614117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't like it, it would seem. < 1280614329 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your age explains a lot < 1280614360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: interestingly nobody ever prescribes the things i say to age until they know what my age is. < 1280614367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" well, if you did, then people would have to climb over each other" <<< or you could have a few layers < 1280614368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else in here has known for years; get over it < 1280614393 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how many years < 1280614402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, late 2008 i think. < 1280614429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise isn't exactly all that young anymore < 1280614467 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: stupidity is confused with nativity < 1280614518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, thank you < 1280614548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, alise, shut up. < 1280614552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, are you sane? < 1280614572 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the DSM IV, I am < 1280614585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN < 1280614603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there no-one sane in this channel? < 1280614621 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not understand what I said < 1280614637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he meant if you've checked from DSM you can't be sane < 1280614642 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"are you sane?" "yes" "is there no one sane?" < 1280614656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terrible at that. < 1280614660 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he didn't mean that < 1280614661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the insanity, see. < 1280614668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, do you know Lisp? < 1280614675 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1280614694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: ben. of doubt or something < 1280614706 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, just logically < 1280614717 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he was implying I was not sane < 1280614723 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was no "if" about it < 1280614735 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you ask everyone it they know Lisp? :D < 1280614756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we need someone sane to vet our Lisp OS ideas. < 1280614767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't know Lisp, it's rather difficult. < 1280614808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I .. read a bit about Scheme some time ago < 1280614814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that count for anything? < 1280614834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well. You aren't sane, though < 1280614836 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all I know is (f o o), so i guess I'm useless there < 1280614842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know bits of several different incompatible bits of lisp < 1280614846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incompatible dialects < 1280614849 0 :Darkfull!~4Security@189-015-52-230.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1280614853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you sane? < 1280614860 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wrote 3 lispy compilers < 1280614871 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few interpreters < 1280614871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: allegedly < 1280614871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, excellent. < 1280614874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ais523 teaches Java [or teacher assistant?] < 1280614874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to tell < 1280614885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: to me it looks like it could've been a bad attempt at jokingness, in case there's something insane about checking if you're sane (although this is probably something you are not that interested in discussing) < 1280614919 0 :Darkfull!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help http://www.4security.com.br/2010/07/26/artigo-apache-com-mysql-e-monitoramento-com-bijk-no-debian-lenny/ < 1280614965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone feel like opening elinks or similar? < 1280614986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I have w3m. < 1280615007 0 :Darkfull!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280615019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" alise: stupidity is confused with nativity" <<< i'm not sure i get this, can you elaborate < 1280615023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nativity to channel? < 1280615028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait err < 1280615095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Darkfull brought us a link < 1280615097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1280615646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I still think we should cannibalise an existing CL implementation, BTW. < 1280615847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1280615856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, CL lacks a lot of things we'd like, like low-level hardware access; < 1280615869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, CL implementations will be VERY tied to existing OSes and very hard to make work for our purposes -- trust me there -- < 1280615872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third, bah, CL :P < 1280615905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so we write all of the frills that Lisp needs from scratch? < 1280615981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. We're writing all the frills an OS needs from scratch < 1280615982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scratch. < 1280615989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, C would interfere with stuff, with memory and the like. < 1280616076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're writing the frills in assembly? < 1280616167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. < 1280616186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately 888ASM is x86 only, with limited support for 32-bit and no support for floating point. But other than that I like the syntax best and it supports macros and things like that, too. < 1280616191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll probably need to write the JIT compiler in assembly, for speed and managing hardware, but we can code the frills in Lisp itself. < 1280616234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, these things really blur the OS-language distinction. < 1280616241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so we also need a Lisp assembly interface? < 1280616243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Smalltalk. < 1280616252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or we can just build it up with macros and the like. < 1280616259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yeah. < 1280616283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory access would need to be included at a low level, wouldn't it? < 1280616295 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is it x86 assembly? Is it protected mode? Now if you do it to other computer you need C instead of assembly, a bit < 1280616305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: long mode < 1280616306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-64 < 1280616308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the address space < 1280616340 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so it won't work if you don't have a 64-bit computer < 1280616341 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night people. < 1280616348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no. < 1280616351 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280616368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engineering for 2 architectures would drive us mad. < 1280616373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could use QEMU. < 1280616376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can emulate 64-bit. < 1280616386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the 64-bit address space is important for our plans. < 1280616390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Bochs, I think it can emulate a 64-bit computer as well?? < 1280616400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bochs is slower though. < 1280616401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is OK, you can make it 64-bit program only, if you want to < 1280616405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd get much less than 2 GiB of space in total on your computer. < 1280616434 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-39-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280616437 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not. < 1280616473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280616476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are magnetic. < 1280616517 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D no its just that my clock tells the wrong time < 1280616784 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you guys know everything, right? :D < 1280616794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, a portion of it. < 1280616807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone will be an expert on anything. < 1280616817 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking at lambda calculus (and havent come very far yet). < 1280616838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, we know about that. < 1280616849 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would (λx.xx)2 be 2+2, or 2*2, or something else? < 1280616861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1280616861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define 2 < 1280616871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus doesn't have integers by default, so do you mean the church numeral? < 1280616874 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, 2**2. < 1280616884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the standard Church encodings for nats. < 1280616893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 2 = \fx.f(fx) < 1280616898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, it's 2 squared < 1280616898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 4 < 1280616904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can verify this yourself < 1280616928 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, thanks :) < 1280616945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never quite got the \b e.e b thing. < 1280616957 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280616962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga! < 1280617013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't you get about \b e. e b? < 1280617028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it's b**e. < 1280617057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to I configure my Wikibooks account to display the newest draft by default instead of the checked versions? < 1280617173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it < 1280617174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: try and expand it manually < 1280617181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\f x. f (f x)) (\f x. f (f x)) < 1280617184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I didn't find it < 1280617189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x. (\f x. f (f x)) ((\f x. f (f x)) x)) < 1280617203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1280617216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I tried that. I got lost in alpha reductions. < 1280617235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename < 1280617237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha renaming, you mean? < 1280617242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes < 1280617316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A new way of analyzing grids of numbers known as matrices" --physorg.com < 1280617374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in our new formalism matrices are written upside down, which makes some equations look much more natural" < 1280617422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me this is a joke. < 1280617442 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was, that's how professional what alise said sounded to me < 1280617456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it < 1280617464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought it was hilarious that a physics news website, supposedly < 1280617467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to explain what a matrix was < 1280617504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the new way < 1280617562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunn < 1280617567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dunno < 1280617569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.physorg.com/news199631037.html < 1280617691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yehuda Eliezar" -- someone trying to say Eliezer Yudkowsky < 1280617697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm uninstalling VS2010 < 1280617809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not < 1280617837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it answers the long asked question of when does a banded matrix have a banded inverse < 1280617839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1280617849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1280617863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote the end of the sentence first so now it's all wrong and blah < 1280617919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: YES CARRIER < 1280617984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT OK COMPUTER < 1280618041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b f x = (b ... (b f)) x, b occurs a times, now the outermost b will apply (b ... (b f)) to x b times, where the depth of (b ... (b f)) is now a-1, by induction each of these applies f to its argument b^(a-1) times, so all in all f gets applied b^a times to x < 1280618062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YHWH Eliezer < 1280618104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that makes some sense, i've always just sort of trusted my feeling that composition looks exponentiationy. < 1280618177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that (b f) applies f to its argument b times, so the induction base works < 1280618190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one b so f applied b^1 times < 1280618234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :composition's more like multiplication < 1280618238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's application that's exopnential-like < 1280618243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exponential-like < 1280618254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right < 1280618291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant application as you can probably see < 1280618449 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280618472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQUIDS ARE ATTACKING, PLEASE MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS. < 1280618475 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280618486 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: root your phone yet? < 1280618496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Yup. It has a Debian chroot too 8-D < 1280618504 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of .. < 1280618506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got frustrated looking for a half-decent WM for the screen size though. < 1280618528 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ported dpkg to android/bionic < 1280618535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... friggin' awesome. < 1280618538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRIGGIN' AWESOME < 1280618546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get aptitude next plzkthx? < 1280618547 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't actually tested it yet lol < 1280618554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing is for the weak! < 1280618578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was thinking the first package should definitely be egobf < 1280618582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so okay what does a . b do... (a . b) f = a (b f), so * x = (bf ... (bf x) nested a times, car-bf applies f to the cdr b times, and it follows by induction that f gets applied exactly b*a times < 1280618597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why "more like"? < 1280618603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1280618611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because application wasn't exponentiation but exponentiation-like < 1280618618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280618637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so addition, that was more work or? < 1280618646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1280618649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a fork < 1280618672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x . a f (b f x) < 1280618681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: Why is your name the first tab completion for "cal" < 1280618692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: EgoBF is of vital importance. As is cplof. < 1280618727 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 1_< < 1280619658 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you meant = ? < 1280619670 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, although that'd work too. < 1280619692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since that is how it's documented, probably wise to use it that way X-D < 1280619706 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird but okay thanks :) < 1280619767 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION : solver of problems.
< 1280620102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, are you sane? < 1280620257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not since I watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Xa4bHcJu8 < 1280620386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, damn. < 1280620458 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280620499 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it ran it but gave me segfaults.. trying my build on a hello world < 1280620518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet < 1280620562 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, that came across wrong < 1280620574 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to compile a hello world to see if it segfaults too < 1280620598 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one built with the gloogle tools but it isn't so good for configure scripts < 1280620726 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey