< 1278201602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: because you can't send arbitrary ICMP messages without root privs < 1278201611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could really snarfle up a network < 1278201641 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh telnet < 1278201642 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.16734: line 1: telnet: command not found < 1278201734 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh uname -a < 1278201734 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1278201883 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278201910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder how Plan 9 does ping? < 1278201912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no setuid. < 1278202033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU GUIs: any recommendations? < 1278202160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the thing to add a user to a group? addgroup? < 1278202256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just edit /etc/passwd. < 1278202281 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you're missing an OS somewhere < 1278202300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ? < 1278202303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant frontends.. never mind :) < 1278202641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278202715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `ls command is broke O NO < 1278202717 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1278202732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O NO < 1278202733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278202746 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278202798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it break all the time like that? < 1278202831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278202833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1278202840 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278202996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/gGec < 1278203139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: adduser user group, IIRC < 1278203159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i was trying to do kvm not kqemu >_< < 1278203207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That URL is something for D&D game, do you have any opinion of it? < 1278203212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers just buying Kindle books from now on
< 1278203258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, don't support the Kindle. < 1278203259 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why? < 1278203271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any other suggestions? < 1278203292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just buy proper books, with paper < 1278203298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get some other ebook reader? I'm not sure that there /is/ a good ebook store. Piracy would be a reasonable option. < 1278203306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can't carry a hundred books around with you -- especially textbooks. < 1278203313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, I do enjoy paper. < 1278203323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see any ebook reader match the typography achieved by well-set books. < 1278203349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do carry around a lot of books when necessary < 1278203369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no Kindle edition of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency < 1278203416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Buy the dead tree version. Adams typeset it himself, on a Macintosh Plus II (IIRC)! < 1278203425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he typeset it himself with MacAuthor, that's in the introduction. < 1278203464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has one or two blatant spelling errors though. < 1278203469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("tjat" for "that", for instance.) < 1278203495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, MacAuthor was MacWriter's codename. But it was 1987, so it would be MacWriter. Curious. < 1278203502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't pirate it, who would I be supporting? < 1278203530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278203534 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1278203539 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: evil corporations. < 1278203548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: publishers. < 1278203559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps half a penny to his widow. < 1278203623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hm. < 1278203626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if he was actually married. < 1278203643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they did. < 1278203770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer reading on my N1 to physical books < 1278203782 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278203835 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to my internet? Huh. < 1278203915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278203983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1278203988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice to read HHGG again < 1278203996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this is only the sample < 1278204000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278204014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have a long-term-ish plan to produce a wonderful, (La)TeX-set H2G2. < 1278204030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spurred on by Quadrescence's homemade printing press. < 1278204043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typesetting < 1278204045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head < 1278204061 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tl;dr it'll look really pretty and you'll feel happy as you read it. < 1278204097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I have been unable to obtain a good text source. < 1278204107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need one with the italic Guide text marked and with some way to differentiate opening and closing quotes. < 1278204162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION upsets at lack of Dirk Gently on Kindle
< 1278204166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm half tempted to pirate < 1278204178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because there's some thorough source for Aldiko < 1278204196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, the pirated stuff seems to be crappily done < 1278204207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried a Pratchett book, didn't see any footnotes < 1278204236 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278204249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm; we really need better contraband books. < 1278204258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicely-set LaTeX. :P < 1278204290 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait until .so is available. < 1278204292 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember who invented Lisp < 1278204292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc6.so < 1278204294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is his name. < 1278204296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: McCarthy. < 1278204298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1278204303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you see his Elephant language? < 1278204306 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John McCarthy. < 1278204310 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have read little bits about it. < 1278204316 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very well documented as it's probably just a concept at this point < 1278204332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His mind is still sharp, it seems. < 1278204339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278204346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I fully understand Elephant though < 1278204407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"End of this sample Kindle book" < 1278204408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1278204436 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278204454 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I like the idea of being able to refer to the past as a means of memory. < 1278204463 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just unsure of the implementation. < 1278204537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency is here < 1278204550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guilties
< 1278204602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, indiscriminatelyfrom? < 1278204611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that from the original, or a typo in this verison? < 1278204618 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Typo, I am pretty sure. < 1278204623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1278204628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fuck it, want me to mail you my paperback? < 1278204650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably buy it, but I end up losing paperbacks eventually < 1278204653 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if I can fetch arbitrary URLs to egobot < 1278204666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing really stopping me from compiling programming language interpreters/compilers onto it, correct? < 1278204678 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: indeed. it's easier just to send a revision to Gregor, though < 1278204681 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, HackEgo is more suited to that < 1278204691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot doesn't really keep state afaik < 1278204691 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perhaps < 1278204699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1278204699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I have Internet access whereever I go, I'm more willing to go to the bookstore < 1278204702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant HackEgo actually < 1278204713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that has a sandbox < 1278204779 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could combine functional programming with temporal logic as in Elephant < 1278204826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does The Last Hero have to be one of very few Pratchett books not on Kindle? < 1278204832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of very few I haven't read < 1278204832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest function of the past is the value of some parameter at a given time, say the account balance of a certain person on January 5, 1991. References to the past are rarely this simple. < 1278204836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next we may consider the time of a certain event, say the time when a person was born. < 1278204838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Discworld, not Pratchett in general < 1278204840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly more complex is the first or last time a certain event occurred or a certain parameter had a certain value, say the most recent time a certain person was overdrawn at his bank. < 1278204844 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More generally, we may consider the unique time or the first or last time a certain proposition was true. < 1278204936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the if-where concept would come in handy for that. if where < 1278204998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than breaking it up into two statements. < 1278205062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it's 20 centimeters on a side, in larger print, and very illustrated < 1278205195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: egobot has a sandbox < 1278205198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not persistance afaik < 1278205204 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*persistence < 1278205205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, guess I have to buy a print version < 1278205217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted all my books from now on to be eBooks :/ < 1278205218 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Stop buying Kindle books. < 1278205231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't bought any yet < 1278205247 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't. < 1278205265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1278205296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the Kindle is a closed, DRM'd platform with the ability -- and which has happened, with Animal Farm and 1984 -- to yank books remotely from your Kindle device. < 1278205302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo, don't support Amazon's Kindle endeavours. < 1278205311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1278205314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatives? < 1278205382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the issue, isn't it. < 1278205401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what Sony readers recommend. < 1278205416 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ebookstore.sony.com/ Hmm. < 1278205442 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Any ebook store will work, really, as long as they use some format that your reader supports; if it's the Kindle, then ... options are limited. < 1278205454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Kindle doesn't support ebook files, afaik. < 1278205458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what about the Nook? What system does that use? B&N's, presumably. < 1278205462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a Nexus One < 1278205497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nook sucks because it's quite slow, the actual-screen is distracting and laggy, and the you-can-only-lend-one-copy-lol is asshattery disguised as a revolutionary revival of the true nature of books. < 1278205514 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a nexus one, anything goes; presumably everything has an appropriate reader. But honestly, reading on that screen is not good for you! < 1278205517 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nexus One < 1278205519 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you won't enjoy it. < 1278205591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding it comfortable so far < 1278205594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: when/if I complete an Android game app < 1278205595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my limited experience < 1278205597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should playtest it. :) < 1278205603 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you're wrong. < 1278205604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, will do :D < 1278205623 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it'll be sort of Metroid-inspired < 1278205638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 360 degree aiming... if it turns out we can actually animate that. < 1278205639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard Aquaria was.. Metroidy in some way? < 1278205654 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, dunno. I've never heard of it. < 1278205667 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'm really not sure I have the programming experience to pull off my ideas < 1278205672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the game design experience < 1278205675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read a dozen (or three) books on the N900 (which I guess has a similar screen) so far, but of course that's just me; I tend to read books with a monospace terminal font in less anyway. < 1278205677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I can... I think it will sell very well. < 1278205701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIMESTRETCH. PROJECTILE. PUZZLES. < 1278205738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The physical page-flippin keys -- officially volume control, or zoom in browser -- are a nice addition, though.) < 1278205754 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow me to clarify: as a puzzle element of the game you can fire missiles that stretch-time in the radius around them upon explosion. You would use this to run by turrets as their otherwise unavoidable bullets are slowed. < 1278205836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...don't even ask me if I can program that. But I've found a sweet open source 2d engine for Android < 1278205839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make things easier. < 1278205969 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's a great idea. make it free :| < 1278206007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278206009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1278206012 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need money. :P < 1278206019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ads! < 1278206026 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I plan on doing is releasing the code open source but copyrighting the artwork. < 1278206040 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. dunno. perhaps ads would be worthwhile as I would get more total downloads < 1278206053 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least there will be a free version. Every successful Android game has a free version < 1278206069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that's true of iOS games as well
< 1278206075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, that would be fairly.. sad < 1278206097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I suggest offering support for profit. ...Wait. < 1278206109 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have my general objection to copyright, really. :P < 1278206147 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: me too, but unfortunately I see the practical benefits. Especially being unemployed. < 1278206148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unenforcable != should be legal < 1278206168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^trap I've fallen into way too much < 1278206172 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nice of you to be so presumptious of your reasons. < 1278206177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have far deeper arguments about copyright. < 1278206184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of my reasons < 1278206276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't have very solid reasons for supporting no-copyright, but I can defend against the typical reasons < 1278206286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's counter-intuitive to capitalism. < 1278206333 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but I lack the time to open this can of worms < 1278206336 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have places to go. < 1278206357 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk to you guys later. < 1278206415 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye CakeProphet :) < 1278206997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why should there be unenforcable laws? < 1278207013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they do is bloat the legal system, after all. < 1278207076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They encourage more lawful people to follow them < 1278207093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people who care about following the rules < 1278207116 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they get run over by the people who don't < 1278207116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, in my case, I have a tendency to care about that, while philisophically disagreeing with such a mentality :/ < 1278207133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not always < 1278207145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being seen to break the law, even an unenforceable one, sometimes has other drawbacks < 1278207150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like people trusting you less from then on < 1278207154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ssh, I'm playing devil's advocate here! < 1278207166 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people have a strong will to follow unenforcable laws that they do not think are right. < 1278207176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they will still do what they think is right in the absence of unenforcable laws. < 1278207193 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are useless except for people like ais523 -- but then he'd be morally perfect even in the absence of laws. < 1278207194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only when the law in question is commonly seen as a reasonable moral code. < 1278207207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1278207213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, is a law necessary? < 1278207213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're in a rather unusual community for some reason < 1278207215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the thing is, laws *do not exist to dictate morality*... < 1278207226 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws exist to codify it < 1278207245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exist to keep society running. < 1278207249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not want laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them." --Demonax, Roman philosopher and possessor of the most badass name in history. < 1278207252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give a flying fuck about morality. < 1278207275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, laws are useful if only as a prediction of how the police and courts will behave < 1278207276 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, back then there were a lot fewer book-keeping laws and it was mostly legislation of morality. < 1278207279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Soo... how about them laws against gay marriage? < 1278207304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Those cause issues in the functioning of society, by causing unequal treatment of members of it. < 1278207306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the ironic thing is, I don't see how definition of what counts as marriage or not has anything to do with morality < 1278207309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a definition < 1278207326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but it exists as a reflection of morals < 1278207333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, OK < 1278207337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :law is effect here, rather than cause < 1278207342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278207345 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marriage is between a man and many women, like it always used to be! < 1278207353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, acting in opposition to the purpose of a legal system. < 1278207358 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *many girls < 1278207383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If laws existed to enforce morality, then surely, surely they'd legislate against more immoral behaviors. < 1278207433 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the reductio ad absurdum of enforcing morality is extreme fascism. A slippery slope argument, yes, but one that conservatives have been steadily sliding down for quite a while now. < 1278207483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Is it really a "slippery slope" argument if people are actually advocating it? < 1278207503 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, indeed. < 1278207507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem there is that the distribution of political is unbalanced; the people performing the immoral acts are the ones with all the power < 1278207515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/political/political power/ < 1278207526 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that economic immorality goes unpunished. < 1278207547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hooray, we have one of the major reasons why legal systems legislate hardly anything based on any reason at all! :P < 1278207548 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ecological immorality (BP got a slap on the wrist). < 1278207559 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278207566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: their stock price plummeted miles, which is more than just a slap on the wrist < 1278207571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It does not go entirely unpunished < 1278207575 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to go eat now. < 1278207576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the markets managed to punish them pretty effectively, even if the government didn't < 1278207581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly doesn't get punished appropriately < 1278207583 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but they sell fucking /oil/, they'll be back up soon < 1278207609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Could you please remove the curry powder from my body? < 1278207611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US is going to be on BP's ass for a lot of money for a long time < 1278207644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corruption is a real problem in basically every government in the world < 1278207645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Sure. < 1278207665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O-kay, this is way too ambiguous. < 1278207671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US, it's big enough that it's actually noticeable, which is worrying < 1278207682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they hide it better in first-world countries < 1278207687 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on a scale of 1 to 10, how much does anarchism scare you? < 1278207692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but they sell *oil*. < 1278207694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: pretty highly < 1278207697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe around 8 or 9 < 1278207704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: under what definition of anarchism? Somalia? < 1278207715 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about, e.g. anarcho-syndicalism. < 1278207723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: a generic one where there's no authority of any kind < 1278207729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would lead to large levels of vigilantism, at least < 1278207732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that doesn't have a peaceful plan of transition scares me < 1278207734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If BP really wanted to, they could *stop selling oil in the US*. < 1278207739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vigilantes tend to be rather indiscriminate < 1278207746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby causing immediate collapse of giant chunks of infrastructure. < 1278207747 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a statement that I believe to be unjustified; people have a tendency of vastly oversimplifying anarchism. < 1278207763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just say "generic anarchism", the different strains differ *very* much. < 1278207770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and that would be how the US would get back at BP? < 1278207774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, the supply would eventually be met by other suppliers, but damn would it hurt. < 1278207775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: agreed; I was trying to interpret your question < 1278207775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what you mean < 1278207778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, < 1278207785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a third option, though < 1278207788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear about the BNP setting up its own private police force in an attempt, they claimed, to reduce crime? < 1278207805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually made things worse because the real police had to follow them around to stop them doing anything illegal < 1278207805 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1278207806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US can expropriate < 1278207850 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit of an anarcho-syndicalist, which is somewhat of a strange position for a strong cynic. < 1278207887 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to espouse liberal policies (with a libertarian bent wrt social issues), though, as anarchism is so far removed from current political debate as to be almost irrelevant to bring up. < 1278207945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I do love xkill; the indiscriminate chainsaw of the Linux world. < 1278207946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, I think you want the impression of strong authority < 1278207958 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ew, no thanks. < 1278207963 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to be living in a dictatorship, even a mock one. < 1278207973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I mean, a benevolent one < 1278207981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benevolent dictatorships are unlikely to exist < 1278207993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue being that there is no suitable benevolent dictator. < 1278207994 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." < 1278207999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you somehow persuade someone they're in a benevolent dictatorship, with an efficient police force, when there is in fact no government < 1278208001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suitable" includes "immortal". < 1278208018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would seem to be optimal, but unfortunately impossible < 1278208032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about an insane sociopath who just wants to kill people and cares not of the consequences? < 1278208045 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's killed, so what? at least he killed someone first < 1278208049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need an actual police force < 1278208055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"when there is in fact no government" < 1278208061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1278208080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to be too terrified of the nonexistent government to become corrupt < 1278208094 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense; sociopaths have no sense of morals, they simply don't care < 1278208110 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can fully believe the government will kill them but if they're insane enough to want to go on a killing spree whatever the consequences, why should they care? < 1278208127 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to use kqemu? < 1278208128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I mean, you have people who actually stop them, even the citizens at large < 1278208137 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? the police force will do it. < 1278208141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you install kqemu, then run qemu with sudo < 1278208148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: hmm < 1278208167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tend to get a lot of local crime-suppression even in, say, the UK < 1278208182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the UK we're all nosy, paranoid fuckers. < 1278208198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in places which have good reason to fear a crime, like banks and jewelery stores < 1278208221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don returned to Case Institute for his Senior Year. At the graduation ceremonies, they < 1278208221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were handing out the diplomas in alphabetical order. But they passed over don when they < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to the k’s. (Maybe lowercase k comes after Z). After all of the diplomas were handed < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out, they asked don to step up on the platform. They said for the first time in the history of < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case Institute, they were conferring a Masters Degree on a student that had been pursuing a < 1278208222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bachelors Degree." < 1278208249 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is KVM the new KQEMU? < 1278208267 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KQEMU, was initially released free of charge but was licensed as a closed-source proprietary product. However, since version 1.3.0pre10[5], released on February 5, 2007, it has been available under the GNU General Public License. QEMU versions starting with 0.12.0 no longer support KQEMU.[6] < 1278208280 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1278208299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KQEMU is an accelerator module < 1278208311 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's deprecated. < 1278208314 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regular QEMU will be fine. < 1278208317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just slow. < 1278208320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes some code and executes it directly < 1278208326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work on any processor < 1278208328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278208329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any x86 < 1278208359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KVM, on the other hand, requires a processor capable of doing virtualization directly < 1278208385 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is KVM a bitch to get working? < 1278208395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1278208412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it on a machine capable < 1278208453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess QEMU will be fast enough for Plan 9. < 1278208453 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, when will you read Fine Structure? < 1278208463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *alise; and when I'm out of the unit and in another country. < 1278208546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the Plan 9 mouse is slow. < 1278208691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, recursive descent was preceeded with the ridiculous "recursive ascent": < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ned Irons preceded our invention with a Recursive Ascent technique that starts off by < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling the primary routine, which makes the assumption that it should call the expression < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :routine, which makes the assumption that it must be in an assignment statement and calls < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that routine. Obviously, expressions appear in places other than assignment statements. So < 1278208692 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his technique makes mistakes. It recovers from the mistakes by leaving tracks that allow it < 1278208693 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find its was back to where the erroneous assumption was made. It then makes another < 1278208695 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess and starts working its way up the syntax chart again. Ned’s technique is obviously < 1278208697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower, does not exercise as tight control, and gives pretty poor error messages. He imple- < 1278208699 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mented his parser on a CDC 1604 at he University Of Princeton in 1960. He was working < 1278208701 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a group from the University Of Pennsylvania. < 1278208725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: that's pretty much just backtracking, isn't it? < 1278208731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1278208732 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but crazy < 1278208734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really is insane < 1278208750 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does ANYONE think of that before recursive descent? < 1278208754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose it could have helped to inspire the brilliantly crazy LR(1) < 1278208763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which vaguely resembles that, except actually works < 1278208776 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR(0)! fuck yeah! < 1278208787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity language designers don't use LR(1) so much nowadays, it's all LR(0), LL(1), and the occasional LALR(1) < 1278208804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is LR(infinity), btw < 1278208806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is the most complex of those? < 1278208810 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR is the most complex right? < 1278208816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR's a special case of LR < 1278208824 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1278208826 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is LL more general than LR? < 1278208828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't quite as good, but uses a fraction of the memory < 1278208829 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vice-versa? < 1278208835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and LR's more general than LL < 1278208835 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278208839 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything more general than LR? < 1278208846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mention LALR(1) because that's what yacc does < 1278208853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, bison supports GLR(1) < 1278208878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a sort of nondeterministic LR(1) < 1278208885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, more nondeterministic than LR(1) normally is < 1278208889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLR(infinity) < 1278208893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus is capable of handling /any/ lang < 1278208906 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so GLR(infinity) isn't more powerful < 1278208906 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1278208909 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, no < 1278208917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, GLR(2) would be a lot more efficient than GLR(1) at a lang that was actually LR(2) < 1278208919 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can't handle, say, ZFC, can it? < 1278208927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: err, any TC-parseable lang < 1278208927 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that's a language, technically < 1278208952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: addquote < 1278208991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote in most channels, I wouldn't even need to add the qualifier that the language has to be theoretically possible to parse... < 1278208994 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209000 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. HackEgo's broken. Sorry. < 1278209000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote theoretically < 1278209007 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how did it break? < 1278209016 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278209029 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a pet theory that #esoteric is one of the best places to find computer science talent in the world; the only problem is that there's a lot of fluff here too, like me and AnMaster, and the channel is so tiny. :) < 1278209051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I wouldn't be surprised < 1278209058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on what you're trying to do < 1278209070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, eBay: 31 items found < 1278209075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a kind of problem which is simultaneously theoretical computer science, and engineering < 1278209082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's that sort of problem that #esotericers are good at < 1278209083 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's your problem :P < 1278209090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up surprisingly often, but people don't recognise it < 1278209120 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: outside of academia, otoh, our solutions to those problems are ... well ... not accepted :P < 1278209130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: you don't consider me fluff? yay! < 1278209135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278209142 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed not! although i don't know if you do any actual cs < 1278209147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: nah, my solutions at least often are accepted < 1278209154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: A lot of computer science talent, but we seem to *all* suffer from project ADD. < 1278209157 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly if anyone wants a /programmer/ they'll find an excellent one here < 1278209158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Not as of yet < 1278209163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I normally need a complete rewrite to get them in anything close to language that other people understand < 1278209177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting my CS degree next year < 1278209185 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what he's considered
< 1278209186 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: congratulations; you'll then know nothing about CS < 1278209195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: good thing you're in Canada rather than the UK; otherwise I might end up teaching you < 1278209198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the CS curriculum has improved significantly since the last time I looked. < 1278209199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be really embarassing, probably < 1278209202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good thing? bad thing! < 1278209212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Not really. < 1278209214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It's at UW, which is known for teaching actual CS < 1278209221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what uni do i need to go to to get taught by you, birmingham? < 1278209225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278209227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Even *MIT* have ruined their CS curriculum. < 1278209229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, a CS degree is a degree in being able to program. < 1278209231 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M I fucking T! < 1278209234 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm there < 1278209239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not actually all that good at teaching < 1278209246 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: except you can't handle fizzbuzz or linked lists < 1278209255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly all the students hate me, except for contradictory reasons < 1278209266 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't really care, it'd be cool to meet you :P < 1278209277 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could just give me A++++++++++ on everything since clearly i am awesome < 1278209284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This scenario is realistic. < 1278209284 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I was considering going to Stony Brook postgraduate so I could get an actual CS degree and education. < 1278209285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that would be bias < 1278209289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, marks are percentages < 1278209294 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: augur went to stony brook at some point < 1278209299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 111%, then! < 1278209301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad enough when you're trying to anonymously mark someone whose ID number you have memorised < 1278209303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did one better than 110%. < 1278209318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there are some serious issues with my academics, I'm going to try for a double major in pure math too < 1278209331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Uh... That's like first or second semester... < 1278209344 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did indeed! < 1278209349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do realise that plenty of people get a Bachelor's degree in CS without actually being able to do one bit of CS? < 1278209362 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently the major I'm in is .. a bit less than pure programming, I'd say < 1278209363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Somehow, yes. < 1278209371 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because (a) people are stupid and (b) a lot of universities suck. < 1278209379 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, a CS degree counts for nothing these days. < 1278209379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CS programs I've seen at least teach *programming* well. < 1278209379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quality of some of the students worries me, although most of them are very good < 1278209387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty certain that Java does not make a good first language < 1278209394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's the one I have to teach anyway < 1278209398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for that really retarded one that considered C a very hard, optional thing. < 1278209406 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the plus side, I'm at the top of every computer class... which says more about the other students, really < 1278209422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than, y'know, essential to *practical* programming these days, regardless of whether or not you use it. < 1278209445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Stop being so self-deprecating, already < 1278209462 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sgeo is simultaneously too self-deprecating and too naive. < 1278209467 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A difficult combination to achieve. < 1278209471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked my (electronic engineering) degree; the first languages they taught us were C and asm, simultaneously < 1278209479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose electronic engineers rarely work with anything higher-level < 1278209481 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think CS courses should concentrate on practical programming at all. < 1278209486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Programming, yes; practical, no. < 1278209486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: whats your interest in stony brook? < 1278209496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the current program at UW is Scheme then into Python or C (student's choice) < 1278209500 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C is probably worth teaching because if you can't understand pointers you lose. < 1278209513 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: which will you choose, do you think? < 1278209533 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd choose C; with Python there'll be an awful lot of Python-related cruft and rubbish class-ery. < 1278209539 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to bullshit C, especially if you start with Scheme. < 1278209540 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augur, a decent CS curriculum, rather than "Computer Programming/Information Systems" < 1278209541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: "Practical" in the sense of "if you do any nontrivial programming at all, you will need to understand C." < 1278209545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely choose C < 1278209553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python will be easier to pick up later, among other things < 1278209557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know both languages < 1278209559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is a language to get shit done in, not a language to understand things in. < 1278209568 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the reasons are the fact that Guido doesn't know shit himself :P < 1278209571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and learning C helps get rid of a whole bunch of awful misconceptions about how computers work < 1278209579 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro already knows both < 1278209582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have very many of those either < 1278209582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ahh, yes. i would suggest UMD cause thats where i am but i dont know if they have much hardcore computer science < 1278209583 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think he should pick C, personally < 1278209597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a CS department, ofcourse, but i dont know if theres anything theoretical being done < 1278209600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably pick C < 1278209605 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel humbles me. < 1278209607 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VICTORY HAHAHA < 1278209614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: why?? < 1278209619 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: humbled me once too, just find a niche < 1278209622 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't, mind you < 1278209624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the whole situation with Python and tail-call optimisation is a really depressing one < 1278209634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it is < 1278209642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other depressing things about Python, but that's the biggest one < 1278209647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life goal is basically to be a dilettante with some specialist subjects on the side. < 1278209656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meanwhile, Perl has a special operator for TCO, and just for fun, calls it "goto") < 1278209678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has three goto statements, in fact; but the one that does TCO is the only one that Perl experts actually recommend using) < 1278209679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's easier, but I will probably learn more in C < 1278209685 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What niche would I have, besides virtual world stuff? < 1278209689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: three of them? < 1278209691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are they? < 1278209704 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't a particularly relevant niche? < 1278209720 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know VPRI? < 1278209723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was at ais523 < 1278209726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: label: goto label; my $labelname="label"; goto $labelname; sub tco_infinite_loop { goto &tco_infinite_loop; } < 1278209727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto, goto &, and goto (with a labeled loop), IIRC. < 1278209728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: who knows. play with everything, find something you like < 1278209740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, that was it. < 1278209744 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: stop being so damn nostalgic; stop caring so much about recognition... and do interesting stuff instead. < 1278209745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second form makes the heads of good-practices people explode < 1278209749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't really have any other purpose < 1278209750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding < 1278209752 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the self depreciation is partially because Alise got to me. And dang it, I need to fix that cap < 1278209763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alise < 1278209770 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said. < 1278209786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278209791 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never meant to make you hate yourself >_< < 1278209795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: You're very intelligent, we all just think you're a little quirky because you spend your time on games that were in fashion 20 years ago < 1278209796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: goto & is analogous to using jmp to a function in assembly, I'm pretty sure. < 1278209821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: If you were an idiot we would have ignored you long ago. < 1278209822 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, 15 < 1278209826 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if SgeoN1 gets over the severe case of nostalgia, and gets over the extreme caring about recognition, he could do great things. < 1278209834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, although not implemented the same way < 1278209838 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and replying to that with "15" just proves coppro's point. < 1278209843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1278209855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically jumps out of one function and into another without any of the typical prologue/epilogue < 1278209892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what TCO /is/, if you think about it < 1278209916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never thought about it any other way < 1278209931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: whats your particular interest in CS? < 1278209969 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially knowing how things work, partially keeping up with this channel < 1278209970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you look at it at a higher level (say, the one Scheme works in), it's more like calling a function then deleting the second-top stack frame < 1278209978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually how it's implemented in INTERCAL < 1278210005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was in a car with my supervisor for several hours < 1278210009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A type-safe embedding of x86-64 assembly into Haskell" < 1278210010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/orgasm < 1278210020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were discussing language features < 1278210038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that INTERCAL's NEXT FROM is actually used in a few mainstream mathematical models, although ones I hadn't heard of < 1278210039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True. < 1278210043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ a very neat command < 1278210051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is NEXT FROM again? < 1278210072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't intercaled in a while < 1278210095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it causes the target line to do a function call to the current line, when it's encountered < 1278210207 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Plan 9 is installing slowly. < 1278210222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: explicit entry points :) < 1278210230 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h239.50.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278210238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, this is a sign that I need to read the spec again < 1278210301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the Revamped Manual, or maybe CLC-INTERCAL's spec; NEXT FROM's been in CLC-INTERCAL for ages, but was added to C-INTERCAL only recently < 1278210304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not in the older manual < 1278210320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, ridiculous idea for a language: we have eax-ish variable @. [<] marks an entry point, @ here will be function argument, [>] marks an exit point, @ is return, e.g. [<] x = @; @ = x + 2 [>]. [label] specifies that we jump to this label to return < 1278210334 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like generalised come from / goto with structure of a sort < 1278210342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just COME FROM that saves the address < 1278210353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring; that makes it too easy < 1278210358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's NEXT FROM that saves the address, COME FROM doesn't < 1278210359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lectures are the proper way to go < 1278210362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, NEXT saves the address < 1278210367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO TO wouldn't, but doesn't exist in INTERCAL < 1278210373 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eax? < 1278210380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's what I mean; NEXT FROM is COME FROM except that it does save the address < 1278210389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278210416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like modern INTERCAL's flow structure; easy to grasp how it works and remember it, flexible enough to do all sorts of interesting things, yet unlike other languages < 1278210422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: what about it? < 1278210424 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278210427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't seen continuation.i, try reading it sometime < 1278210471 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, it's a register, but context implies that there's something special about it. < 1278210500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: it's a register that's commonly used to pass arguments in 32-bit x86 ABIs, IIRC < 1278210511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to pass results < 1278210618 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278210825 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any thoughts about my [<], [>] idea? it's not that interesting I guess < 1278210828 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does sort of unify stuff < 1278210845 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[<] and [>] can be read as [any], i.e. "we have a language construct that specifies the label to be used here" < 1278210848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: it's sort-of how I think about INTERCAL < 1278210875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that e.g. "foo(?foo_result); [foo_result] result = @" works < 1278210883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the [>] gets reinterpreted as [foo_result], i.e. jump to foo_result < 1278210889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then we can't call functions < 1278210892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only enter < 1278210898 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a goto thing < 1278210900 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's dynamic < 1278210901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1278210939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ = 42; foo : foo_entry : foo_result; [foo_entry] [foo_result] result = @; < 1278210960 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where f:a:b means "set up f's [<] points to be [] points to be [>b]" < 1278210966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe foo < foo_entry > foo_result is a nicer syntax < 1278210984 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like... voluntary come from :) < 1278211155 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278211343 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278211448 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I can't see plan 9 ping doing anything special < 1278211453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the default user has a lot of privileges < 1278211617 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell isn't there a type-safe database. < 1278211690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: many SQL databases are vaguely type-safe < 1278211697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could probably be made more so without major issues < 1278211698 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but not in the good kind of way. < 1278211705 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes a DB monad
< 1278212252 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what power does recursive descent have? i forget < 1278212256 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really have lookahead < 1278212258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without, say, ungetc < 1278212263 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's... R(1), if that even makes sense? < 1278212286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which method is recursive descent, again? < 1278212296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one element in the syntax tree becomes a procedure < 1278212300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x := 'a' y 'b' becomes < 1278212307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x() { char('a'); y(); char('b') } < 1278212318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be something(0) in that case < 1278212323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly LL(0) < 1278212332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember exactly how the naming scheme works < 1278212335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1278212336 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_descent_parser < 1278212337 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LL(k) < 1278212349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, ofc, i elided the accept stuff < 1278212445 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278212532 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like recursive descent < 1278212543 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278212550 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i think you can make an LL(infinity) recursive descent < 1278212560 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if input is an array, just have accepting(symbol, n) < 1278212564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n = 0 produces current symbol < 1278212653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278212805 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an a^nb^nc^n parser in C is oddly ugly < 1278212941 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define Ntimes(c) while (*s++ == c) i++; if (i != n) return 0; i = 0 < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i = 0, n = 1; < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (*s++ != 'a') return 0; < 1278213030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*s++ == 'a') n++; < 1278213032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ntimes('b'); < 1278213034 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ntimes('c'); < 1278213036 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 1; < 1278213038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278213040 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best i have so far < 1278213042 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda ugly really < 1278213182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, insane idea: post-emptive multitasking < 1278213197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs the two programs, *then* decides the best times to switch < 1278213204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwhat? < 1278213223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: brilliant < 1278213251 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, this would somehow take place retroactively < 1278213289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, a use for TARDIS in Befunge. < 1278213295 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could perhaps implement this by somehow "speculating" on how the program is going to run, and deciding based on that; then, if it turns out you chose wrong, try and multitask 'the opposite way' to correct for your errors (i.e. if a process was neglected, give it disproportionate time) -- and update your prediction values accordingly < 1278213300 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *TRDS < 1278213310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1278213329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time and Relative Dimension in Space, not Time And Relative Dimension In Space. < 1278213332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278213821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is getting a C# book for free soonish
< 1278213898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I have to do is tutor someone and make more money < 1278213928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count as free < 1278214079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, you can't tutor someone -- nothing personal, it's just that very few people can teach effectively. < 1278214084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, why the fuck do you want such a book? < 1278214087 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three, yeah, that's not free. < 1278214164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No money is leaving my hands < 1278214203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a stupid definition of free, then < 1278214215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If $10/h really does balance out with what my time is worth (I'm bad at knowing how much money is worth) then yes, the book is free < 1278214246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be pretty young for an hour's work to only be worth $10, if the work's on someone else's terms rather than yours < 1278214394 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your time is only worth $10/h if you're retarded < 1278214412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1278214424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does being clueless with money count as "retarded"? < 1278214427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1278214669 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278214766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278214777 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278214790 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1278214859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to dd into a filter and then into dd for the same file? < 1278214899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hot in here... < 1278214905 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't think so. < 1278214915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last dd process will start immediately and open the file in write mode, erasing it. < 1278214931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this apply to a device? < 1278214981 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278215055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: probably not < 1278215059 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well < 1278215063 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: streaming device or block device? < 1278215066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno the correct terms < 1278215067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1278215075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :block < 1278215083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other one is character btw) < 1278215091 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i... wouldn't risk it, tbh. < 1278215097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it with a floppy device or something :P < 1278215127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have backups, and the whole point would be to prevent idiot support agents from having access to my files while still making it relatively quick for me to undo < 1278215209 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idiot support agents? < 1278215236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, guys fixing my computer < 1278215447 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have such guys? < 1278215493 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warranty < 1278215522 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "oops I hit my computer will you fix it pls" kind) < 1278215526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+with a hammer < 1278215624 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well ... don't hit it < 1278215941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have to hit this computer occasionally to stop it overheating < 1278215952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took a while to figure out where to hit it to stop the fan getting stuck < 1278215991 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn.... 4am < 1278215995 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when did you wake up? < 1278216466 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278216554 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omfg, esolang mailing list activity < 1278216595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that existed < 1278216598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and am not subscribed) < 1278216661 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caller: comex < 1278216661 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judge: Wooble < 1278216663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can only go well < 1278216684 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278216700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: heh < 1278216705 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278216722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in B, I just judged that a scam that I myself had tried to take advantage of (better than the original scamster) worked < 1278216726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if people will appeal? < 1278216800 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278216846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would $you write an a^nb^nc^n parser in C? < 1278216866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to shortcircuit? < 1278216868 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. f(s) iff s = "a"^n "b"^n "c"^n [anything] < 1278216875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just that specification above < 1278216877 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only concern is elegance < 1278216879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simplicity < 1278216880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest way would probably be to count as, count bs, count cs, compare < 1278216888 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1278216897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simplest way to count a particular letter is just to read until you get a different letter, then ungetc it < 1278216901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ungetc was invented for that purpose < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i,j,k; < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; *s++ == 'a'; i++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(j=0; *s++ == 'b'; j++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(k=0; *s++ == 'c'; k++); < 1278216932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return i==j && j==k; < 1278216934 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278216936 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on a string. < 1278216945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this accepts the empty string though with junk after it < 1278216947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really kosher < 1278216950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say it has to check end of string < 1278216962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just check for \0 after the comparison < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i,j,k; < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; *s++ == 'a'; i++); < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(j=0; *s++ == 'b'; j++); < 1278216971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(k=0; *s++ == 'c'; k++); < 1278216972 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s && i==j && j==k; < 1278216974 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278216975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, return i==j && j==k && !*s < 1278216980 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278217069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More "abstract" version: < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int anbncn(char *s) { < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int n[3], i; < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; i<3; i++) < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while(*s++ == "abc"[i]) n[i]++; < 1278217070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s && n[0]==n[1] && n[1]==n[2]; < 1278217072 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278217074 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less clear, though. < 1278217215 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok then, here's something tricker: a parser that parses (a_0)^n (a_1)^(n+1) (a_2)^(n+2) ... (a_i)^(n+i) for a fixed alphabet a of size i, and arbitrary n. < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int decralph(char *s, char *a, int sz) { < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int n[sz], i; < 1278217304 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for(i=0; i0 && n[i]!=n[i-1]+1) { free(n); return 0; } < 1278217539 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1278217541 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : free(n); < 1278217543 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return !*s; < 1278217545 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1278217577 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1278217615 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the nice thing about recursive descent is that you can include little ultra-powerful parsers like that as part of it < 1278217618 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they have a recognisable start < 1278217634 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e., you never get aabc being valid but different from aabbcc) < 1278217745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love recursive decent. < 1278217752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Descent. < 1278217820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind of parser you end up writing without ever having heard of just because they are that intuitive. < 1278217905 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278218003 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278218041 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no! Recursive ASCENT! < 1278218049 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the most hideously stupid parser ever-- and therefore, our favourite! < 1278218050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: o.O < 1278218061 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually invented BEFORE descent. < 1278218075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely bogoparse is the most hideously stupid parser ever? < 1278218077 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not under that name, of course. < 1278218078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ned Irons preceded our invention with a Recursive Ascent technique that starts off by < 1278218078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling the primary routine, which makes the assumption that it should call the expression < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :routine, which makes the assumption that it must be in an assignment statement and calls < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that routine. Obviously, expressions appear in places other than assignment statements. So < 1278218079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his technique makes mistakes. It recovers from the mistakes by leaving tracks that allow it < 1278218080 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find its was back to where the erroneous assumption was made. It then makes another < 1278218081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate random parse-trees, see if they're correct < 1278218082 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess and starts working its way up the syntax chart again. Ned’s technique is obviously < 1278218084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower, does not exercise as tight control, and gives pretty poor error messages. He imple- < 1278218086 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mented his parser on a CDC 1604 at he University Of Princeton in 1960. He was working < 1278218088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a group from the University Of Pennsylvania. < 1278218093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's not so different from recursive ascent < 1278218095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... And... That... And? < 1278218122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds freaking awful. < 1278218134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An expression? I hear those appear in assignments! Let's go with that." < 1278218158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot fathom accidentally reinventing one of those. < 1278218172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written parsers and realised after the fact that they were recursive descent. < 1278218193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL's parser is now so complex that CLC doesn't have a clue what the operator precedence and associativity is < 1278218197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even if it's consistent < 1278218198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they just seem freaking natural for anything that's got clean BNF. < 1278218238 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: once, the CLC parser proved a false statement < 1278218243 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody noticed, as it seemed like normal output < 1278218260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: its output is ICBM bytecode < 1278218275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, you were making a joke on "consistent" < 1278218280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I did an AnMaster and missed it < 1278218312 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if it actually outputted a proof that the given text must parse to a certain parse tree :) < 1278218314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the CLC in CLC-INTERCAL mean? < 1278218323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's the initials of the primary author < 1278218327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1278218352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't a predictive recursive descent parser parse an ambiguous grammar? < 1278218356 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever "Lemniscate" Caviar < 1278218364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if it guesses wrong, it doesn't know what to do next < 1278218371 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why can't your MOTHER parse an ambiguous grammer?? < 1278218393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1278218399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm, being an idiot today < 1278218423 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h239.13.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278218453 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, typesettery. I was considering having the 'final stage' before actually putting pixels to paper be, basically, nested lists containing sets. < 1278218454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To explain: < 1278218463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no nested lists. < 1278218466 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sets at certain points. < 1278218473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, this isn't yet another total preorder is it/ < 1278218478 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we say that at point (3,4) -- for some abstract coordinate system -- < 1278218488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things have come up twice in a month at work, despite being generally unused < 1278218495 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have the foop (a (12 pt) bold) < 1278218498 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as < 1278218503 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((pt 12) a bold) < 1278218506 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1278218512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have nested sets here < 1278218524 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, when this is actually rendered, we ask the character set for a character matching these attributes < 1278218536 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a, so it looks up the a character, then it looks for the bold variant, then it renders it at 12pt < 1278218540 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the pixels returned < 1278218548 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, these coordinates can overlap, because of kerning etc. < 1278218552 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is okay, because of transparent backgrounds < 1278218577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw <3 Parsec < 1278218578 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like borders would be big box characters around the stuff, i think < 1278218588 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and images would be e.g. (image 234988eu98234-uniqueid) < 1278218595 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (thumbs up) < 1278218730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It is awesomeness. < 1278218889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is basically the way parsing was meant to be done < 1278218902 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or IS it... dun dun DUNNNN < 1278218935 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGs huh, i hear pegs are good, pirates have pegs fuckshitting pegs pirates yeaaah it's almost 5am. < 1278218939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING PIRATESHITTING PEGS! < 1278218941 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, moving on < 1278218946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I'm pretty sure that when the gods crafted the Universe, they said "Well, we'll have to include parsing" "Oh, man, that sucks" "Well, we could make sure they get Parsec" "Sounds good" < 1278218947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any parsing expression grammar can be converted directly into a recursive descent parser[citation needed]. < 1278218952 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're like quite as awesome < 1278218953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1278218959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice is basically the same word as quite ithink < 1278218964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a t there, thjat should be a c < 1278218967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but u is basically w < 1278218974 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody gievs a fuck about q, so we can just replace that with t < 1278218977 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we get quite = twice < 1278219039 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, um... when did you last sleep? I set my sleep clock on other people's. < 1278219052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: woke up at about 5pm yesterday < 1278219060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep clock is not a good one to set to, though < 1278219064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last went to sleep 18 hours ago < 1278219066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, i woke up at 10am this morning :) < 1278219074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep is not a good one to set to if you're in the UK < 1278219078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10am this morning hasn't happened yet, at least if you're in the UK < 1278219090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION woke up at 10am as well
< 1278219093 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up i'm too tired to think so fuck that shit < 1278219101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it's like 7pm there in "MILD COUNTRY " < 1278219105 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278219114 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U S A , land of the mild < 1278219147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Try 11PM. < 1278219151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1278219172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, mild country? < 1278219175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 "mild" pm, the "mildest " of hours < 1278219195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: backup < 1278219201 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278219211 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mascot thourselfs towaqrds my untodistablishabilityies < 1278219214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. It's 7 in Hawaii-Aleutian time? < 1278219215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION arbitrarily decides that alise_ is mild
< 1278219221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FUCKING HAWAII < 1278219225 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... just < 1278219227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING HAWAII < 1278219385 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAIWAN WOW < 1278219622 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man this is painful < 1278219668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :台湾？ < 1278219697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves polyglot sentences
< 1278219710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: polyglot between which langs? < 1278219737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Japanese, all Sinitic languages, (atypically-written) Korean, (atypically-written) Vietnamese. < 1278219752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's right. An entire language branch. < 1278219753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278219753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it particularly meaningful in all of them? < 1278219759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same meaning. < 1278219764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taiwan?" < 1278219771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``TAIWAN``'' < 1278219788 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1278219796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a sort of pointless polyglot, then < 1278219802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like the null quine < 1278219807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easiest with proper nouns, yes. < 1278219824 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL NOUNS < 1278219832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if there are any spoken Mandarin/Cantonese polyglots < 1278219848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278219857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many, mind. < 1278219861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably, meaning a different thing in each lang < 1278219873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, different meanings in each? Trivial. < 1278219889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both syllable/tonal structured, and there's overlapping syllables and tones. < 1278219893 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SP[Æ]KING THE Shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī. < 1278219894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1278219908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you could make it a question in one lang, and its answer in another < 1278219909 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOULD BE THE SPOKING OF THE WORDS ENVISIONED -- INSIDE THIS -- pikhq -- THOU HA'STEST A LINGUISTIC SYSTEM < 1278219912 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THE TRANSCRIBING OF KANJI < 1278219921 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY IT TO THIS POE~TRY, LION - EATING POET IN STONE DEN, THE < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 《施氏食獅史》 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室詩士施氏，嗜獅，誓食十獅。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 氏時時適市視獅。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 十時，適十獅適市。 < 1278219928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 是時，適施氏適市。 < 1278219929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 氏視是十獅，恃矢勢，使是十獅逝世。 < 1278219931 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 氏拾是十獅屍，適石室。 < 1278219933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室濕，氏使侍拭石室。 < 1278219935 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 石室拭，氏始試食是十獅。 < 1278219937 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 食時，始識是十獅，實十石獅屍。 < 1278219939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 試釋是事。 < 1278219960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can kinda-sorta understand that. < 1278219962 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT REALLY KANJI BEING CHINESE I GUESS BUT WHO CARES < 1278219977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really freaking weird-looking, mind, but. < 1278220002 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS ROMANISED IN "SHI"S < 1278220004 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW ROMANISE IT < 1278220005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: "Kanji" is more literally translated as "Chinese characters". Or even more literally translated as "Han dynasty characters". < 1278220018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of those characters have Japanese readings. < 1278220028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try though. < 1278220069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. The few that don't have reading indicators. I can cheat! < 1278220158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ishishittsujishishishi, shishi, shishokujyuushi. Shijijitekishikanshi. Shiji, tekijyuushitekishi. Saiji, tekishishitekishi. Shikansaijyuushi, jishitsudou, bensaijyuushishise. Shikaisaijyuushishin, tekiishishitsu. < 1278220165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's about where I'm going to give up. < 1278220177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Excuse me? That is not entirely "shi". < 1278220182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that is not in your romanisation scheme. < 1278220187 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours had xs in, or something. < 1278220192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1278220354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isisitus`isisisi, sisi, sisixyoku`ixyuusi. Siz`iz`itekisikannshi. Sis`i, tekis`ixyuusitekisi. Sais`i, tekisisitekisi. Sikansais`ixyuusi, s`isitut`ou, h`ennsais`ixyuusisise. Sikaisais`ixyuusisinn, tekiisisitu. < 1278220415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that is where I stop being able to give or reasonably guess at readings. < 1278220477 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :321654165456465465 need to sleep < 1278220798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell if I've been a victim of C# poisoning? < 1278220832 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like c# < 1278220846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a nice language.. < 1278220857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: C# is a massive improvement over all the other standard Windows application development languages < 1278220860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why people like it < 1278220882 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: poisoned < 1278220890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's also shit < 1278220925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is worse, Python is not statically typed, Java is worse < 1278220925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I don't know it well enough to know what bad points it has < 1278220943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so bad about it? I'm curious, and would like ammo to use against C#-loving types < 1278220968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not really application-level, especially for security-requiring stuff. Too easy to write unsafe code. < 1278221030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the thing I dislike most about C# is it reminds me a bit of MAGENTA < 1278221047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many different ways to do things, that please different subsets of programmers, not for any particularly good reason < 1278221066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278221070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night alise_ < 1278221467 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1278221494 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278222179 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278222448 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278222462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a C# is fine too. < 1278222473 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like. It's basically what Java should be. < 1278222473 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278222515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... it always pissed me off that methods weren't first-class in Java < 1278222548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in C# there's multicast delegates. It already saves you a shit ton of work when doing something event-driven. < 1278222584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are in Java 1.7 < 1278222589 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it's bad points are essentially the same as Java < 1278222590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-class methods, that is < 1278222604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh really? Hmmm, okay. I assume it works differently from delegates based on your wording. < 1278222622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you use # rather than . when referencing a method < 1278222629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get what's basically a function pointer < 1278222634 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... eh. < 1278222639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it typesafe? < 1278222643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you could do it anyway making an anon class, and people did all the time, but that's stupidly wordy < 1278222655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd guess it's typesafe at compile time but not run time, the way type erasure normally works < 1278222661 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very stpidly. It's cumkbersome when it should be easy. < 1278222673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stupidly < 1278222693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly getting first-class methods won't help when most Java APIs expect classes.. < 1278222700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1278222737 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delegates are probably my favorite thing about C#. It's the thing that makes it stand out when compared to Java. < 1278222778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to go overboard, though < 1278222788 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well yes. < 1278222789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently wrote a function with 3 nested anonymous delegates. < 1278222799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately every language design isn't Guido < 1278222811 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we'd be trying to prevent everything that allows mistake. < 1278222816 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failing miserably. < 1278222826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *language designer < 1278222832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to pay more attention to what I type. :P < 1278222903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have so many crazy and conflicting language ideas... I don't think I could ever unify them. < 1278222907 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278222928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy and conflicting, like ABCDEF? < 1278222934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sins by abbreviating it
< 1278222947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm considering how one would merge concepts from Elephant with functional and OO paradigms. < 1278222952 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no clue what that is... < 1278222967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly functional. I'd pick functional over OO I think. < 1278222998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially logic programming mixed with functional < 1278223022 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have an implicit history (possibly via monad?) that can be referred to and manipulated via temporal logic. < 1278223045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory < 1278223051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1278223070 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no not quite. < 1278223082 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1278223117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other language ideas I want to develop involve manipulation and definition of syntax... in a sane way. I suppose like Lisp macros but in a more syntatically diverse setting. < 1278223174 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of envison it like defining a custom parser in Parsec, that interprets the language for the syntax element in question. < 1278223551 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...though, I don't know < 1278223553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be too much. < 1278223576 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just easier to have macro operators. Combinations of operators. < 1278223702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: someone should actually run a ABCDEF < 1278223715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it was, once < 1278223723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just never wrote a spec for the resulting language < 1278223727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody did the actual compilation into a language < 1278224114 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278224299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278224534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adores the Meiryo font now
< 1278225170 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278225288 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot wait for tomorrow night (technically today's night, since it's past midnight now) < 1278225337 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the kid I was talking about as being a co-worker? < 1278225343 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of sorts? < 1278225346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American Independence Day celebration... with terrible cheap vodka and pot brownies < 1278225351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ...no < 1278225619 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wondering what I should mix this vodka with though. It's /bad/... it cannot be drank neat. < 1278225642 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_on_the_beach_(cocktail) < 1278225657 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would rather have real sex
< 1278225683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ha. well of course. < 1278225697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we are cheap bastards < 1278225699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything we make < 1278225703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will not be those ingredients exactly. < 1278225713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be like, orange soda and peach-cranberry juice. < 1278225734 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278225835 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278226220 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: okay... so < 1278226241 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got $6 US and a $12 handle of vodka. What mixers should I purchase? < 1278226267 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His computer was taken away, apparently because his parents thought that they needed it more than he does < 1278226278 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn. < 1278226286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was for the virtual world thing right? < 1278226297 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1278226316 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, taking a computer away from a kid programmer has got to be the most obnoxious.. < 1278226344 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1278226362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278226364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: how old are you? < 1278226377 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize until recently how many very young people inhabit this channel. < 1278226380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is 21. The kid is around 15
< 1278226393 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is 18. 19 in a few weeks.
< 1278226934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm salty dog / greyhound = vodka + grapefruit juice < 1278226935 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278226936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is convenient < 1278226947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I already have some grapefruit juice. < 1278227005 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278227180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yorsh (Russian: ёрш) is a Russian drink consisting simply of beer thoroughly mixed with an ample quantity of vodka. < 1278227186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....why would you ever do that. < 1278227214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preparation: mix thoroughly and drink quickly! < 1278227217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet. < 1278228104 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278228200 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229304 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278229400 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229603 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278229608 0 :Adrian^L!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229874 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278229907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, annoying < 1278229949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) I have two partitions on my computer doing nothing. I would be more worried if that wasn't what most of the rest of my disk space was also doing < 1278229950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) my backup disk is refusing to be bootable < 1278230130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably sleep soon
< 1278230399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1278230400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1278230505 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278230600 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278231705 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278231803 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278231826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads Reddit discuss Lotus Notes
< 1278231845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone suggested to get a similar effect, you should try compiling Firefox's source with ghc without porting it to Haskell first < 1278231937 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar effect to what? < 1278231981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er... lots of syntax errors? < 1278231984 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278231992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Lotus Notes < 1278231995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have no idea < 1278232003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it must be bad if someone even /suggested/ that analogy < 1278232032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1278232051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just enable -CompileFirefoxSource extension in GHC < 1278232056 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much standard Haskell at this point < 1278232082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1278232106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closely related is EnableSkynet < 1278232115 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's fairly undocumented. < 1278232238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copyright 200X ACM X-XXXXX-XX-X/XX/XX ...$10.00." < 1278232251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangest copyright notice I've ever seen, although admittedly it was on a draft paper < 1278232510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1278232524 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright 2XXX < 1278232532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by _______ ________ < 1278232558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know anything about mixed drinks by chance? < 1278232579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; I don't drink alcohol < 1278232599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well nevermind. :D < 1278232905 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278233000 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278233550 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278233954 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278234104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here? < 1278234282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278235065 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278235160 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278236265 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278236358 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278236442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION randomly comes across a compile-time FizzBuzz in C++
< 1278236444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/fizzbuzz.htm < 1278236639 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237292 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237464 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278237563 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278237687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1278238337 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278238343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278238406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah, my backup is working < 1278238664 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278238763 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278239029 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1278239227 0 :ski!~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278239430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: testing bootability < 1278239694 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278239959 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278240163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack.petricek.net/ :-) < 1278241065 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278241160 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278242265 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278242363 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278242824 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278243465 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278243565 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278244665 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278244759 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278245034 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278246578 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246721 0 :tulcod!~auke@a83-163-69-73.adsl.xs4all.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246751 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are there any languages for which it isn't intuitively clear that they're turing-complete? < 1278246794 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278246803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can always sense it < 1278246837 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all languages i've seen so far are pretty obvious < 1278246846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you seen < 1278246859 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1278246866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know . < 1278246876 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the brainf*ck languages and stuff < 1278246881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ACTA has now been declared a trade agreement thereby bypassing the congress." < 1278246881 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply weird syntax for assembly < 1278246888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: we have far more shit < 1278246894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload < 1278246898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda < 1278246900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toi < 1278246905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's langs < 1278246905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check toi first < 1278246910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1278246917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal with extensions < 1278246934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT < 1278246940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1278246967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those except toi are pretty obvious tho, so maybe you should check out toi?!? < 1278246984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm bct < 1278246988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so humble < 1278246994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1278247000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: point is they're more interesting than bf < 1278247031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for tcness < 1278247037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes but compared to toi... yeah i'll shut up < 1278247044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah tcness < 1278247047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: yes, you can easily make a language tc iff goldbach conjecture < 1278247048 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm, just looking at underload, that's far better than whitespace and all that wikipedian crap :) < 1278247049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget how < 1278247052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was at least partially being useful < 1278247064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace is a syntax language, yes < 1278247068 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1278247068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: we're the snob part of the esolang guys :P < 1278247093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a rather clear separation into the 99% of esolangs that are fun syntax ideas, and the 3% that someone actually put some thought into. < 1278247112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 102% of languages < 1278247123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2% that's both is my languages, there's just a few of them but i counted them multiple times because they're awesome. < 1278247143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did i get this humble i wonder < 1278247163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: some of the absolute best languages come from cpressey. classics like befunge but also very abstract, unknown-tc langs < 1278247170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did like graphica's syntax, but admittedly toi has the worst syntax ever < 1278247182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Chris_Pressey; < 1278247184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about cpressey's work outside bf < 1278247187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: < 1278247197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cpressey didn't do bf he did befunge :P < 1278247201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah i know < 1278247207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.b) < 1278247212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but sry) < 1278247220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: http://catseye.tc/cpressey/lingography.html his languages < 1278247229 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1278247235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: further you go down, much more interesting and CSy they get < 1278247241 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. burro where the set of burro programs is a group < 1278247259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh smetana was his < 1278247279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1278247279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okapi is a language I designed for my wife for our sixth anniversary. Its only means of control flow is throwing exceptions, and as if this wasn't enough, there are two restrictions on exceptions that are thrown — they must be divide-by-zero exceptions, and they must be caught in a lexically enclosing block. Nor is there any facility to "retry" after an exception is caught. The language is nonetheless Turing-complete." < 1278247293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great anniversary present or best anniversary present? < 1278247309 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sounds great :D < 1278247342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUBE is a classic by him < 1278247354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering what the message of making an error-based language is < 1278247389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMITH (2000) < 1278247389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-modifying assembly-like language which completely lacks any kind of jump instructions whatsoever. < 1278247396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noit o' mnain worb (2000) < 1278247396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A neat little toy automaton that uses pressure between randomly moving particles to approximate the behaviour of circuits. < 1278247404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worb is his too?!? < 1278247409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1278247414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ur cool < 1278247424 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're my new idol, oerjan is out < 1278247438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emmental (2007) < 1278247438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-modifying language; the language is defined in terms of a meta-circular interpreter, and this meta-circular interpreter provides an operation that redefines operations of the meta-circular interpreter. In fact, this mechanism is required for Emmental to be Turing-complete. < 1278247441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could go on < 1278247447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i won't :P < 1278247454 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you guys dedicated to this? is there any external interest in all this or is the esolang group just for the lols? < 1278247466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: well there are applications in CS < 1278247478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aiming for a career in research in computability < 1278247484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our ais523 won the wolfram prize by inventing what is basically a deliberately sub-TC esolang tag system < 1278247487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1278247514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wouldn't say many of us are all that dedicated :-P < 1278247517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: and his day job requires a lot of esolangy stuff < 1278247529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of us just do this for fun and interestingness, though < 1278247534 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more esolangy than fortran and basic? < 1278247546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more esolangy than haskell < 1278247549 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"idealised concurrent algol", mathematical model < 1278247560 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kinda work would that be? :) < 1278247568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno exactly, ask him :P < 1278247576 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you on? < 1278247600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes could you tell us where you get your ideas < 1278247616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everything i say look sarcastic < 1278247624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm TOO sincere < 1278247675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: wouter has cool stuff if you can handle his gigantic language list: http://strlen.com/proglang/index.html < 1278247687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight: http://strlen.com/aardappel/index.html < 1278247710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also did false but that's basically brainfuck on a stack < 1278247728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1278247728 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1278247749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy k is pretty cool < 1278247754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: malbolge too < 1278247763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took a computer search to find the first hello world < 1278247766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was /cryptanalysed/ < 1278247779 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278247787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub-tc but only for memory limitations < 1278247788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false is brainfuck on a stack? i'm not sure i agree 100%, but maybe i remember it wrong... < 1278247792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278247801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://esolangs.org/wiki/FALSE close enough < 1278247804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess if you interpret it freely enough < 1278247815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just more capable < 1278247820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with arithmetic and shit < 1278247824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's less esoteric :P < 1278247845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: btw brainfuck's goal was tiny compiler, not extreme abstract interest < 1278247861 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well alright < 1278247868 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying the guys who designed it are stupid < 1278247873 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not extremely interesting < 1278247919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, if you ever want to see what over-engineering is, compare: < 1278247922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-93 http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/doc/website_befunge93.html < 1278247928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-98 http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html < 1278247931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is based on a computational model called P'' whose point was to prove you can be tc without loops < 1278247942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278247952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no without goto < 1278247952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know for a fact it is based on this, but it's the same thing < 1278247957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1278247961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"typo" < 1278247976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was gonna write with loops, but it's the omission that's important so well yeah asd) < 1278248023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, that surely was interesting back then. < 1278248228 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-24-118.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1278248512 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278249644 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278249747 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278250845 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278250912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rayikromtmrokt < 1278250945 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278251242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI New version of Photoshop CS5 includes hyper-intelligent gnomes that can do anything. < 1278251326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that + http://vimeo.com/6496886 = gnome child labour < 1278251476 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278251484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.skitch.com/20091005-q5jx8gdg2j11ubrhap4fpfe8mp.jpg < 1278251490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raptor, raptor, raptor, screaming man, endless void of space. < 1278251556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also seam carving < 1278251557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gnomes too < 1278251625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're taking the term "magic wand" a bit too literally < 1278252027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CSI] < 1278252031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ZN3b9.jpg "Oh no, the image is cropped!" < 1278252034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's okay! Just press undo! < 1278252035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1278252039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Synthesising...] < 1278252040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/AqTcE.jpg < 1278252044 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278252050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n"/"/ < 1278252090 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-125-153.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278252115 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278252587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI <<< looks like someone finally made a program that isn't completely retarded < 1278252648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting to know how special-cased that is for real-life objects < 1278252663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the samples :-)) < 1278252750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there's a quite old plugin for gimp that does the same thing quite well < 1278252758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine it'd have an easier time with abstract shit < 1278252760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less crap to copy < 1278252767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic technique appears to be "given a texture, make more of that texture" < 1278252773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's awesome about http://i.imgur.com/AqTcE.jpg is that it looks really natural, but actually the bottom makes absolutely no sense < 1278252775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably with some tweaks to mirror e.g. the balance of elements in the texture < 1278252786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh god you're right < 1278252790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, looking at the bottom is so disturbing < 1278252796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... fractal and... evil < 1278252800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1278252802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1278252812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, i'm pretty sure there's plant / zoomed out grass hybrids in there < 1278252818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just sick < 1278252821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shivers
< 1278252828 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: though, admit you need to know it's computerized to see it < 1278252838 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very convincing otherwise < 1278252846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it looks like there's some sort of portal to another forest < 1278252858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tulcod: you need to look at the bottom to see it, yes < 1278252870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, it looks very natural if it's in the corner of the eye < 1278252895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if i looked at that dark patch in the bottom and then to the left i'd notice shit was up < 1278252901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plants are not furry like that < 1278252902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuurgh < 1278252908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please obliterate this feature < 1278252910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once you look at the bottom, you can tell by some of the pixels that there's a fucking portal to another forest. < 1278252922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey you're right, that dark spot looks like the trees in another forest < 1278252935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think that's incredible < 1278252936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the plants around it get spatially distorted due to, you know, portal physics < 1278252942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you went through the portal you'd be huge < 1278252943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278252945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look how tiny the tree is < 1278252949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1278252977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portal physics is the very scientific principle whereby portals do crazy shit < 1278252979 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; anyway i seriously want to hear how these algorithms work, but i presume i'd have to join the team < 1278253040 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer < 1278253044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp plugin < 1278253045 0 :nooga!~nooga@aij81.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phd thesis detailing the algorithm < 1278253048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy < 1278253053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that creepy forest was done with resynthesiser) < 1278253062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a hunch photoshop would produce something slightly less creepy) < 1278253062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was not photoshop < 1278253068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but < 1278253070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same algo basically < 1278253070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well judging by the youtube vid < 1278253077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives almost identical results for most of the pics < 1278253080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know it's the same algo < 1278253080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess forests are just pathological :P < 1278253088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cuz the results are almost identical basically < 1278253092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the internet says it's the same < 1278253099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has like the same tools < 1278253119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just read the thesis, that's the creepy forest algo, the important portal one < 1278253124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :results are almost identical, what are you basing this on? < 1278253134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at those examples, or more < 1278253137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who did the panorama and desert thing, want me to find links? < 1278253173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no need i guess < 1278253194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will anyway because i'm awesome. < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278253207 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you've seen http://vimeo.com/6496886 right? and the image resizing seam carving stuff? < 1278253215 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278253227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about synthesising a picture, removing some trees, then seam carving it < 1278253239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought-out photography is so last century < 1278253253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'll bet it can uncrop a stock chart and predict the markets!" < 1278253276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked to http://graphics.cs.cmu.edu/people/efros/research/NPS/efros-iccv99.pdf < 1278253280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is completely real. In fact, the technology has been in development since 1999. (pdf warning)" < 1278253298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: using an obviously lower-quality screenshot of the panorama from the video: < 1278253302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/0yKBG.jpg < 1278253302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/e25kG.jpg < 1278253309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the problem is, like you said, that forests are a bit pathological, because you have small plants near, and big trees far, so they look roughly the same; so plants happen to get interpreted as trees, because the algo doesn't think in 3d < 1278253316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing objects: < 1278253319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/4A4ral.jpg < 1278253319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/fEbazl.jpg < 1278253323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that example isn't so hard < 1278253330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the grass is a bit dodgy around the removed area < 1278253355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's just that seeing furry grass-tree-plants makes me get scared that all matter is suddenly going to go slightly furry at the edges < 1278253362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how my brain responds to the visual information < 1278253367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh GOD fuzz apocalypse imminent" < 1278253372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1278253386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to wonder what would happen if reality's texture system broke and i got mapped on to a couch < 1278253388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1278253391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like 7 < 1278253404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got pretty scared about it < 1278253530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me an even number between 50 and 100 that doesn't repeat a digit < 1278253614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not falling for that < 1278253615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck at the sketch thing < 1278253619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling for it? < 1278253619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78 < 1278253623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw it in the logs :p < 1278253626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1278253629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1278253632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1278253632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently everyone picks 68 < 1278253636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh a few days ago < 1278253647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked to a shitty mind control blog mentioning it, after it worked on... maybe you < 1278253653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try and find < 1278253661 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278253665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm, maybe i got the link from here then, i thought i was googling for something else < 1278253672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no i doubt i would've chosen 68 < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:58:16 quick i need a someone to pick a *even* number between 50 and 100 that has two different digits! < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:04 68 < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:29 interesting < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:35 thank you < 1278253673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:40 hm? < 1278253674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:41 --- part: ghostwriter42 left #esoteric < 1278253676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:47 --- join: ghostwriter42 (~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42) joined #esoteric < 1278253678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00:59 Is 68 a common response or something? < 1278253680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:29 http://mindcontrol101.blogspot.com/ read the paragraph that says "pick a number" < 1278253682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:17 ... < 1278253683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1/2 of my test subjects have said 68 < 1278253684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:27 i guess you win < 1278253686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.07.01 < 1278253688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah i guess you wouldn't, but you aren't human < 1278253699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why 68 < 1278253726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have one constraint on the pair that's completely symmetric in some sense, and a constraint on the latter digit < 1278253731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously i would choose the latter one first < 1278253742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might take an easy one like 2 < 1278253748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i could choose any number for the first one < 1278253767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68 is the first possible choice ofc, realizing that i don't think it's all that interesting < 1278253822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" wonder why 68" <<< ^ < 1278253837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay pick a card please < 1278253865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 of ... jacks < 1278253869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that isn't a suit is it < 1278253869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278253873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 of spades < 1278253876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not completely < 1278253881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1278253887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work when your target knows what you're doing < 1278253905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing a very partial disproof of these things working. < 1278253918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, that thesis is 60 megabytes < 1278253921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO I'M GOING TO TRY TO TRICK YOU INTO SAYING WHAT PEOPLE USUALLY SAY < 1278253925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering why net was so slow < 1278253930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW PICK A CARD < 1278253935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REFUSE < 1278253982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:07:19 heh, just saw a bogus proof on Slashdot that the last digit of pi was 5 < 1278253983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show? < 1278254101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to search for more of these because i'd like to try one on myself < 1278254111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the link for http://www.indianchild.com/number_trick.htm gives the answer away on google < 1278254113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278254123 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278254136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hypnotise yourself dude < 1278254138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhh :P < 1278254143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can < 1278254161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While not absolutely everybody picks "3", most people do." <-- oh i thought it meant pick an /arbitrary/ number, i picked 72 < 1278254164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was joking. < 1278254171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact, these tricks aren't hypnosis < 1278254171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1278254181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should have picked a real < 1278254181 0 :tulcod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278254187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you pick 3? < 1278254188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think they probably meant natural even if they meant arbitrary < 1278254192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no picked 72 < 1278254195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no i < 1278254198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol :D < 1278254221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you thought 1 2 3 4 was like a countdown to seeing how controllable you are < 1278254232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278254236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was gonna be like < 1278254238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"did you pick FIVE???" < 1278254263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when i scrolled down I was like "what how does 1, 2, 3, 4 make people think the next entry should be '3'" < 1278254285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278254328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL ACTUALLY I HERD THERES A POLYNOMIAL THAT IS THE SEQUENCE 1 2 3 4 3 < 1278254344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's asstonishing < 1278254351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ass-tonishing < 1278254357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just tonishing my ass < 1278254362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just lagrance it up you'd understand if you knew maths < 1278254377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess you don't.................. < 1278254379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fragrance it up < 1278254403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey did you read about my fart language btw < 1278254407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you think it was awesome < 1278254410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, is it farty? < 1278254422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a bf derivative but even funnier < 1278254430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's like bf but < 1278254436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh is it wav files < 1278254438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically < 1278254441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it detects fart noises < 1278254447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses the duration and pitch to pick a command? < 1278254455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so congratulations you are a genius < 1278254456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i thought of that but fizzie refused to do the sound stuff for me :( < 1278254469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a fascist < 1278254472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but input is still in farts < 1278254472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill him < 1278254477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output too < 1278254499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i removed nestor loops because they are too complecited for me... < 1278254504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION farts
< 1278254505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278254511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think you need loops if you just have if < 1278254518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can just repaet the code multiple times instead of looping < 1278254521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really you just need if < 1278254523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be tc < 1278254530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2d movement, that is also tc < 1278254538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes i also changed the for ... until loops of bf into just ifs but i think it's the same thing really < 1278254540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really tc is irrelevant since we only have finite memory in the universe < 1278254556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't listen to the zealots who say "ohh you need tc" < 1278254563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a purist masturbating thing < 1278254570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really understand tc < 1278254583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't i think it doesn't really mean much in the real world < 1278254586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it like when you can use printers and usb drives and so on < 1278254589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1278254598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your language run or replace windows ?? < 1278254600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cd disquettes < 1278254603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know windows is a language you can type things like "dir" into it < 1278254613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "format c:" which formats your files to look better < 1278254617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i heard on the internet < 1278254637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should make a 3.75d version of your language < 1278254640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isometric 3d < 1278254643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my favourite game < 1278254658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what isometric means < 1278254661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it means illegal < 1278254670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS "IT" < 1278254672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the the the the the the of the < 1278254673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1278254674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1278254679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well an isometry is a distance-preserving bijection between two metric spaces < 1278254689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278254693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is a language? < 1278254705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunnolol < 1278254758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was like this all the time, but made really awesome languages < 1278254772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1278254774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they'd always have some really stupid design flaws and retarded names for things < 1278254775 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278254787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's that? my language is a turing-complete field? what's that" < 1278254791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ideas behind them would be awesome < 1278254800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1278254801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i just made a bf derivative..." < 1278254810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::----) < 1278254862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my computer suck so much this user interface was designed by a moron or something < 1278254864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all user interfaces < 1278254884 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278254902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe its a filed but the POIT of the langauge is that the loopes are realy hard to write because you have to repeat every charater 40 times in soruce code :D" < 1278254923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typos would be essential < 1278254933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything he'd say would be totally retarded < 1278254964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically asiekierka with a genius mathematician in his subconscious < 1278254992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how all those "fill in data that isn't there for pictures" stuff in shows works! < 1278255005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't < 1278255011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we can instinctively do pretty awesome stuff ... like do differential calculus so fast we can catch a flying ball ... stole that from Dirk Gently < 1278255043 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, in secret, there are surveillance cameras everywhere, constantly taking very high resolution pictures. However, the secret network won't give up those picutures without proof that you had most of the data anyway. < 1278255045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard something about some psychology people saying people do diff calc when they catch balls < 1278255054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: 'most' < 1278255059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought damn they're retarded < 1278255063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also douglas adams, therefore it is true < 1278255065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1278255067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: okay, then maybe < 1278255068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a character in a douglas adams novel < 1278255074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly they can be pretty stupid < 1278255108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's dirk gently? < 1278255125 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ignores the succeeding conversation to best avoid spoilers
< 1278255171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Svald Cjelli a.k.a. Dirk Gently, of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency < 1278255174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually if i hear a spoiler, i completely forget about it once i start reading/watching said object < 1278255185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278255194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bloody good book < 1278255199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it references prolog which is pretty neat i guess < 1278255216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently there was something like that in a psychology book my friend had to read for schools. a uni course that is < 1278255230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tl;dr dirk gently scams old people with missing cats using bullshit quantum physics < 1278255231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the psychology dep seems really retarded btw < 1278255253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: gura vg gheaf bhg gvzr vf shpxrq hc, naq n znpuvar perngrq fcrpvsvpnyyl gb oryvrir guvatf fb lbh qba'g unir gb sebz nabgure havirefr xvyyf n thl < 1278255256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: do NOT unrot13 that < 1278255259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge spoiler < 1278255262 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... tempting < 1278255266 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I won't. < 1278255591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway it's a good book, even more nerdyish plotpoints than h2g2 and a fun plot < 1278255630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have: < 1278255631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Save. Every edit is saved immediately. Changes to the file by other programs are loaded automatically. < 1278255634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's an interesting feature :P < 1278255636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-a delete < 1278255637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops! < 1278255644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if you use version control religiously < 1278255653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be cool if every change was saved and ctrl+s just did a vcs commit < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * A jump-to-line dialog box. < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * A find dialog box. < 1278255718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * In fact, does not have any dialog boxes." < 1278255749 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-94.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278255989 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, another app available everywhere except Android < 1278257246 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278257343 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278257464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, ridiculous idea < 1278257473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio compression using lagrange interpolation! < 1278257488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cut out every N samples, and use lagrange interolation to fix it < 1278257490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus stuff < 1278258178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, now i have an urge to write an editor < 1278258222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes this happens. < 1278258465 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278258565 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259143 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION behaves like he has a 200dpi screen
< 1278259273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*she < 1278259279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing :D < 1278259545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're my new idol, oerjan is out <-- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1278259648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278259656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey might be temporary, so you should be at your best behavior < 1278259665 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278259673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, too lazy < 1278259762 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278259996 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.104.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278260012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hinting is weird < 1278260118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your loss! < 1278260198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A well-hinted Japanese font is an awesome thing. < 1278260222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. I spit at hinting. Why don't we have 300 ppi screens? < 1278260236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we wouldn't /need/ hinting. < 1278260241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 ppi? Then we wouldn't need /antialiasing/. < 1278260264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone 4 is 326 ppi, so, you know, just make that bigger. < 1278260335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: failed retrieving file 'ffmpeg-23792-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz' from www.mirrorservice.org : Not Found < 1278260336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278260343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION syncs package dbs
< 1278260360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, I am writing an editor! Call me crazy. Please. < 1278260428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're fucking nuts. < 1278260455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why :( < 1278260634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff there are sequels to A Glorious Dawn < 1278260644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my day has been made < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkWindow) < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkInvisible) < 1278260769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Message: pygobject_register_sinkfunc is deprecated (GtkObject) < 1278260770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up. < 1278260879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just want to make something I can use instead of Emacs until I reinvent everything :P < 1278260896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use maybe 5% of Emacs' editing features so I wade through a lot of boilerplate in using it. < 1278260913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I've now become enamoured with the idea that all changes are saved immediately, and Ctrl-S does a *VCS commit*. < 1278261070 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim for the vim < 1278261084 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to make another editor < 1278261093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: My editing style is nothing like vi's. < 1278261104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There /are/ differences between people's editing styles. < 1278261117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are emacsers, some people are viers, some people are acmers, some people are samers, some people are geditors. < 1278261121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an alise-editorer. < 1278261133 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using vi kind of requires that you forget everything you think you know about editing and relearn the vi way < 1278261147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and that way really doesn't sit well with the way i /think/ about code < 1278261179 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, or perhaps you just don't think like that because you're not using an editor like that < 1278261198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used vim for a while. Went through vimtutor and all, sawed off my cursor keys (not really). < 1278261211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy with the way I think about code and edit it. Is there something wrong with a person who doesn't use vim? :) < 1278261235 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is, not using vim for starters < 1278261245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am no longer listening to you :-) < 1278261251 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278261276 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14C61A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278261303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Considering the idea of "cursor key acceleration (a la mouse acceleration)" seriously just popped into my head, pretty sure I'm /not/ a vi user. < 1278261335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you _could_ accelerate all key repeats... < 1278261353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, i don't repeat many keys often though < 1278261354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than cursors < 1278261369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would exasperate the problem of accidental repeats < 1278261384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean far more extreme accel though < 1278261394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just accelerate backspace too >:D < 1278261395 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my basic point is: how happy you are now says nothing about how happy you *could* be after taking time to be proficient in another way of working < 1278261416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it starts out moving one line per N, then in 1/4 seconds is moving up 3 lines per N, then in 1/2 seconds is moving up 5 lines per N, after 1 second 8 lines per N < 1278261425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also backspace, yeah < 1278261431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with characters < 1278261451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have tried a great, great many editors. < 1278261452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your fibonacci is missing a term < 1278261459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I jived more with acme than I did with vim. < 1278261468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wasn't going for fibonacci, but cooool :D < 1278261481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibonacci as natural acceleration < 1278261518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember what (Delta fib(n)) simplifies to
< 1278261535 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phi? < 1278261539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-2) < 1278261560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Delta fib(n) = fib(n+1) - fib(n) < 1278261574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) then < 1278261614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's (fib(n) + fib(n-1)) + (fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)) < 1278261633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha says it's fib(n) - fib(n-2), but that's obvious < 1278261646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o what < 1278261652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, or is it < 1278261653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1278261655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so confused < 1278261659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme take this step by step < 1278261660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n+1) - fib(n) = fib(n-1) < 1278261664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduces to < 1278261665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) + 2fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) < 1278261669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduces to < 1278261696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) + 2(fib(n-2) + fib(n-3)) + fib(n-3) + fib(n-4) < 1278261701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but wolfram alpha isn't correlating that < 1278261704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm really confused < 1278261720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n-1) + 3fib(n-2) + 3fib(n-3) + fib(n-4) < 1278261734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you substitute _just_ the fib(n+1) into the recursion. sheesh. < 1278261740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: err right < 1278261766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n+1) - fib(n) = fib(n) + fib(n-1) - fib(n-1) - fib(n-2) < 1278261770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := fib(n) - fib(n-2) < 1278261780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) = fib(n+1) + fib(n-2) < 1278261786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo fib(n) - fib(n-2) = fib(n+1) which is obvious but < 1278261788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't W|A get that? < 1278261857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so we have that fibonacci grows according to fibonacci < 1278261865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would seem to give a nice acceleration ... property < 1278261886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, the finite integral of fib(n) is fib(n+1), that's cool. < 1278261995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/1 1/16 1/8 1/4 1/2 1/1 2/1 4/1 8/1 < 1278261995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 < 1278261999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually an awesome acceleration pattern < 1278262071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that we start with 1, ofc < 1278262075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 lines per interval would be useless < 1278262129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fib(n) = fib(n+1) + fib(n-2) surely you want n-1 not n+1 < 1278262150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1278262151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278262156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have < 1278262178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delta^n fib(m) = fib(m-n) < 1278262184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...undelta^n fib(m) = fib(m+n) < 1278262189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Undelta < 1278262212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about you but that seems like a pretty cool acceleratory property to me < 1278262344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: has anyone used fibonacci as a nice acceleration sequence in this way before, do you know? < 1278262364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1278262414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just sucked an icecube and it popped < 1278262419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdest thing. < 1278262424 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278262724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, awesome, yaedit has a prefix option < 1278262959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have: - An option to set the bloody tab size and screw up your indenting. Tabs are 8 spaces, get over it. < 1278262962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1278263109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah it's a silly opinion but even ais523 holds it religiously < 1278263125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that 1 tab = indent until mod 8 = 0, or in today's world, indent 8 spaces) < 1278263131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also slightly amused by "- Menus or ugly icons that take up precious screen real-estate." < 1278263137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When coupled with the screenshot < 1278263145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has, like, the tiniest screen < 1278263153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i have tried it out and with a more reasonable screen size it's alright < 1278263153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1278263157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the left hand side is... the only UI :P < 1278263169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it still /sucks/ incorrigibly, why do you think i'm writing an editor? < 1278263185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max undo levels? why do I want max undo levels? is your computer going to run out of memory or something? < 1278263191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that he complains about screen real-estate and then has an UI that takes up around 30-40% of his screen :-P < 1278263208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... don't think he has a 454x360 screen. < 1278263215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1278263225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, you know what I meant < 1278263253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does pygtk babysteps
< 1278263256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is easy actually! < 1278263285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling save-everything-then-Ctrl+S-does-VCS-commit might be a pain if you're setting other programs on the file, but eh, just disable it if you do that < 1278263695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone's wondering the best code window size at whatever 10pt at 85ppi is, is 640x432 < 1278263698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just the code, nothing else) < 1278263737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can display... 31.9 lines, or something, should probably round that up, and 88 columns for some reason < 1278264288 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278264302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, gtksourceview themes suck. < 1278264344 0 :77CAAV6KB!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278264393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now i'll do file loading ... then the actual hard part < 1278264416 0 :77CAAV6KB!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1278264594 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278264687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The operations between the begin_user_action() and end_user_action() methods can then be grouped when creating an undo stack." < 1278264688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1278264873 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278264873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have gtk experience? < 1278264930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it man! < 1278264932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it! < 1278264965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: don't do what < 1278264970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make the most AWESOME editor ever? < 1278264989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Don't do GTK. < 1278264998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an abomination. < 1278265001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not, it's so eaaaaaaaaaaaasy to use in python < 1278265039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm using it tastefully < 1278265085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1278265088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: suggest something better < 1278265178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wxwidgets? FLTK? A hole in the head? < 1278265233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt? < 1278265240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ever tried to use wxWidgets? Ever looked at a wxWidgets interface? < 1278265244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. < 1278265260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLTK? Well, sure, point me to the ready-made source widget :-) < 1278265274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is hideously complex to get going and the signals/slots stuff is just living pain if you're trying to get something simple done. < 1278265276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt? < 1278265277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/ < 1278265282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really, what's wrong with GTK if it's used simply? < 1278265289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is that a ready-made source widget? < 1278265295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1278265296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I forgot to mention that FLTK is ugly as hell. < 1278265299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Look at Gobjects. Deeply. < 1278265304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Yes I have. < 1278265311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are already running a GTK program right now. < 1278265315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already have GObjects on your system. < 1278265320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it won't even be interfaced into an actual object system. < 1278265327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1278265330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, on the other hand, will be using GObject interfaced to Python's object system; the two blend rather well. < 1278265364 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278265371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1278265384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I use Conkeror. < 1278265394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the *only program* I have with GObjects. < 1278265425 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278265437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And do GObjects personally affect you while using it? < 1278265446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh wait. Mlterm. Darnit. < 1278265449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. And they won't personally affect me while writing it, as I'll see them all as Python objects. < 1278265450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not at all. < 1278265457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, the only thing GObjects damage is our sanity when we look at them, which we're not doing. < 1278265465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I will continue to use GTK as it's the easiest thing for this :P < 1278265472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the source code is enough to make me want to murder RMS. < 1278265541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ../../../gcc-4.5.0/libgcc/config/libbid/bid_decimal_globals.c:47:18: fatal error: fenv.h: No such file or directory < 1278265552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This error. How did you make it go away in Microcosm? < 1278265567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to build an i386-pc-linux-newlib GCC
< 1278265705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic. < 1278265727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1278265921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so what ui element should i add first ... hmm < 1278265947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i should make it indent properly first < 1278265971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtksourceview takes view a bit literally it seems, and doesn't do intelligent autoindentation < 1278265997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why oh why is it using xgcc for a *cross compiler*? < 1278266104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "make all-gcc" is how you tell it to just make the compiler. XD < 1278266238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make every GCC, EVER. < 1278266244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All versions, all platforms, all settings. < 1278266263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Themselves compiled with every GCC, EVER. < 1278266308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh no. < 1278266324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why isn't there a library that just works out autoindentation? < 1278266567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Furthermore, should I write one? < 1278266610 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1278266837 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278267007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ugh* < 1278267038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ugh? < 1278267057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS NEWLIB FAILING SO HARD AT CROSS COMPILATION < 1278267075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1278267110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, no joke, trying to build x86_64 assembly for an i386 libc. < 1278267125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i suggest you write an indentation library < 1278267185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries with linux32
< 1278267363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MWAHAHAHA MY EDITOR WILL BE SO AWESOME THAT YOU WILL USE IT AND SUFFER < 1278267378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Yeah: newlib is "smart". < 1278267397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's convinced that because you're going linux->linux, it can special case a bunch of stuff. < 1278267416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so it does stupid stuff. < 1278267431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing an autoindenter is hard :( < 1278267438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with tabs for indent spaces for align < 1278267451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucksit. < 1278267462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably get a uclibc system working now. < 1278267467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or CAN you < 1278267500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278267532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggest a feature for my editor so I can tell you why I'm not going to add it! < 1278267541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multi-file support < 1278267554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GI < 1278267557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it will have that. < 1278267559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI, I mean. < 1278267571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You didn't deliver :-/ < 1278267574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well... it'll have widgets ... but very few of them, and you'll rarely click them. :P < 1278267579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, suggest something /slightly/ less fundamental. < 1278267587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax highlighting < 1278267595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Scripting support. < 1278267635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Define scripting. < 1278267648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ... be a /little/ bit outlandish, please? :D < 1278267654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know Elisp? < 1278267663 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1278267664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do know elisp. < 1278267674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1278267696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't think of much else to be honest < 1278267705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it will not have scripting support because it'll be so simple that scripting it would be basically pointless, as there isn't anything to script. If there's an actual "big" (big being almost anything in this context) feature you want to add, you can patch the code easily enough. < 1278267731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How about "a save file command"? :P < 1278267741 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scripting is overrated < 1278267766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Alright, that < 1278267777 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278267842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have this disease where I never bother using a VCS because, even with editor support, making a commit is so much of a fuss as opposed to simply not doing it. So, with my editor, I'm moving the goalposts: every change is saved automatically, and the minimal-effort action, Ctrl+S, is "make VCS commit"; it will prompt for a one line summary, which I'll type and press enter, and that'll be it. For files where this is undesirable, it will be disable < 1278267842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :able in a few keypresses. < 1278267871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW you will have that, just not by default < 1278267874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way, I can just type and then invoke e.g. "git diff" to see what I've changed so far, making a commit will be as instinctual and automatic as saving is now, with no extra effort, and I'll have a nicely fine-grained revision history. < 1278267884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, yes. But that's just for editing /etc files. :P < 1278267888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it won't be in version 0.01. < 1278267937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or I could be a nazi, and tell you to version /etc and ~/.*. < 1278267942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not have any save command at all. < 1278267947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't do that, so I won't. :P < 1278267971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the intended purpose of the editor is /etc, ~/.*, and source code? :-P < 1278267992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name another purpose? Writing textual works is also included, but you should be versioning them anyway. < 1278268075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modifying autogenerated files < 1278268092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, generally you shouldn't do that. Example of when you would? < 1278268118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often modify configure scripts and makefiles because that's much easier than figuring out why the autotools/whatever got something wrong < 1278268139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I do know why, but that's much easier than changing the generators < 1278268179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then press whatever keys disable the magic. :P < 1278268218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+. A or something (A for Autosave). < 1278268230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Ctrl+S would be save, and Ctrl+S on an already-saved file would be VCS commit. < 1278268231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; just pointing out that your "be a nazi" option isn't very realistic even if people would agree to that much :-P < 1278268240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I /am/ writing this just for me. :P < 1278268277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Context-sensitive tab completion < 1278268285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean smart autoindentation? < 1278268311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll have that. It's minimalist in fluff, not in text editing features. :P < 1278268321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it won't have macros. < 1278268367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; completion, not indentation < 1278268372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, completion. < 1278268378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, none of that... unless I change my mind. < 1278268388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd generally think that if your names are long enough to need completing you have shitty names. < 1278268392 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278268406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason I won't have snippet-macros. < 1278268424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278269099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at documentation for CWEB. I was trying to see what features it has. I was specifically looking for the feature to export parts to other files, the @( command does that it is exactly what I was looking for. But in my opinion there is still one feature missing, which is a kind of meta-macros, which can take parameters and output C codes, TeX codes, and other CWEB codes. < 1278269126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1278269305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to add command such as @M defines a meta-macro, and @X does a calculation before compile-time, including checking whether the mode is tangle or weave. < 1278269326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make CWEB useful, in my opinion. < 1278269581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this command were added I might rewrite MegaZeux with CWEB and convert the documention of MegaZeux into TeX. But as it is right now, I cannot do such a thing as that. This way all documentation can be neatly printed with cross-references to the relevent part of the codes, and with automatically for all Forth and Robotic commands, together with the relevent code and also printable in separate section for reference manual < 1278270261 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-116.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270335 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270356 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278270493 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278270509 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270513 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278270585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you do me a favor and translate http://mtg-jp.com/eventc/jpnats10/img/preview.jpg ? < 1278270600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I can try. < 1278270622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1278270668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry for being rude, I should have said please :) < 1278270742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awakened Thoughts 2U. Sorcery. Choose one instant or sorcery card from your graveyard, and put it into your hand. < 1278270746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the rules text. < 1278270757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make out the flavortext. < 1278270961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1278271046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../gcc-4.5.0/libiberty/strsignal.c:554:1: error: conflicting types for ‘psignal’ < 1278271050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION twitches
< 1278271963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the *distinct* feeling that cross-compiling GCC is not a much-tested feature
< 1278272003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that < 1278272010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Making a GCC cross-compiler < 1278272029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's so incredibly brittle! < 1278272038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't GCC mostly thus? :-P < 1278272084 0 :ryan__!~revfitz@adsl-75-45-0-162.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278272228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/opt/crosscc/i386-pc-linux-uclibc/i386-pc-linux-uclibc/include/unistd.h:243:21: error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers < 1278272231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, y'know what? < 1278272237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does plan9 support non-bitmap fonts? < 1278272239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC can go to hell. < 1278272249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278272252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about any sort of antialiasing? < 1278272257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to create a cross-compiler to? < 1278272265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i386-pc-linux-uclibc < 1278272280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you on? < 1278272287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64-pc-linux-gnu < 1278272300 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang is definitely an option < 1278272321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it build uClibc and busybox? < 1278272326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know < 1278272331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they C? < 1278272339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they heavily laden with GNU extensions? < 1278272358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the answers are yes and no, then clang should be able to do it; if they're both yes, it's a definitive maybe < 1278272397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're C and heavily laden with GNU extensions. < 1278272573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1278272576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can, yes < 1278272578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and antialiasing < 1278272580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no subpixel afaik < 1278272670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helveticka Smallcapulated. < 1278272676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gothic Helvetica XD < 1278272780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so, I'm working on amend -1 < 1278272808 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me about it when I return (it will be shortly) < 1278272815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1278272898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longly. < 1278272946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know of any auto-indentation libraries? :/ < 1278272953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, ones that will tell you what string to enter on this indented newline < 1278272956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how to indent this given line < 1278272958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given its context < 1278272971 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278272981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very language-dependent and tricky problem :-P < 1278273068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not see an easy way to tell clang the *libc* you want it to use
< 1278273115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So is syntax highlighting. < 1278273151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling I'm going to be the first person to try to build a clang *for* uclibc. < 1278273163 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What string to enter"? < 1278273167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes; and most editors have syntax highlighting but not clever indentation < 1278273168 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, program for you? < 1278273202 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches alise bring in the singularity
< 1278273216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no, as in the string of indentation < 1278273219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gedit, kate, emacs, vim, notepad++, ... < 1278273222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: every IDE, ever, ... < 1278273241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All even /tolerable/ editors do it. < 1278273245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Are we still talking about indenting with tabs and aligning with spaces? < 1278273252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, not that particularly. < 1278273263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just automatically inserting an indent on {, deducing indentation from context, etc. < 1278273265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; because I know of no editor that does that correctly < 1278273271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Emacs does with a very short elisp snippet. < 1278273276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice. But that's just icing on the cake. < 1278273302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What GtkSourceView calls auto-indentation is actually just "repeat the last line's indentation", something I find utterly unusable in the face of actual automatic indentation. < 1278273312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking if there's a library to do proper automatic indentation. If not, I guess I'll write one. < 1278273332 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ladies and gentleman < 1278273338 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly gentleman) < 1278273348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now going to prepare to celebrate my country's independence < 1278273354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by getting very very drunk. < 1278273360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: entirely gentleman, unless you follow the coppro theory of total nickname-based gender reassignment. < 1278273368 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I do not. < 1278273374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then entirely gentleman. < 1278273375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gentlemen < 1278273389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm sex reassignment too, if he claims i have a vagina in the context of #esoteric < 1278273390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. we are a gentleman's club then. < 1278273403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone has sex organs in the context of #esoteric < 1278273406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sukoshi -- who else used to come here and be female? I don't recall. < 1278273407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really part of the protocol. < 1278273410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, isn't Slereah female? < 1278273417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know iamcal isn't female? < 1278273423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1278273426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you know your mom isn't female < 1278273427 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I making an assumption based on the nick? < 1278273428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because he's cal henderson, guy at flickr < 1278273434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: french gay guy < 1278273435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your gender is generally irrelevant in context of #esoteric < 1278273437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i forgot whois exist < 1278273438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1278273446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iamcal.com/ < 1278273461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's one of only two people here with a wikipedia article < 1278273463 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hai < 1278273472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: not female no < 1278273475 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I disgressed, but now I must bid everyone good day. I must see how many different vodka concoctions I can invent in a night. < 1278273478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_Henderson < 1278273479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28The_Simplest_Universal_Computer_Proof_contest_winner%29 < 1278273480 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*digressed < 1278273486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: enjoy destroying your liver and losing your higher cognitive function! < 1278273494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: hi. < 1278273496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There! Now I wrote "Icochash". < 1278273501 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I will. immensely.. < 1278273501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: oklopol thinks you're female < 1278273516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1278273534 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm mnaly < 1278273574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "mnaly" a word? < 1278273580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean "manly"? < 1278273584 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a badly spelt one < 1278273585 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/iamcal < 1278273603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those could just be photographs of people who aren't you but share your name < 1278273609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or people pretending you're male to support your conspiracy < 1278273616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/or/, you could actually just be a really manly-looking female. < 1278273627 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, it's ture < 1278273628 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278273636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally ture, mr. mnaly < 1278273659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sideburns are nearly connecting under my chin. < 1278273671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're trying to make up for my otherwise complete lack of facial hair by making a pseudobeard. < 1278273676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is *this* close to just murdering every person responsible for modern compilers
< 1278273692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please do it. Not the pcc guys though. < 1278273695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc is nice. Use pcc. < 1278273698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do nothing except use pcc. < 1278273710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am very, very heavily tempted to just use PCC and Newlib. < 1278273712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have no compiler in your thoughts apart from pcc. Associate the concept of compiler directly with pcc, and cast away any other such associations. < 1278273724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm presuming that Newlib is PCC-buildable) < 1278273808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1278273848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem like the kind of guys who would care about being sane and reasonable C. < 1278273891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What're you trying to do? :P < 1278273898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Something awful. < 1278273950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I JUST WANT A TOOLCHAIN TO BUILD SMALL BINARIES < 1278273952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1278273969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DO you? < 1278274178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to murder everyone? < 1278274236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyever not? < 1278274252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you murder someone it is not reversible < 1278274261 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to make fun of people who rely too heavily on IDEs "I don't need to know how things get compiled and linked! The IDE takes care of everything" but then realized that that's the case with me and Visual Studio and C# < 1278274284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your brain ... this is your brain slowly decaying under the influence of C#. < 1278274292 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatting in this channel is also irreversible < 1278274294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Neither is computation, my good friend! < 1278274332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things are irreversible < 1278274334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it can, yes <-- do you happen to remember how? < 1278274344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um do you have /n/sources? < 1278274358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what was it, /n/contrib < 1278274369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, /n/sources < 1278274384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: run "9fs sources" < 1278274404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just automatically inserting an indent on {, deducing indentation from context, etc. <-- iirc kate does that for C pretty well < 1278274414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as your source isn't too much a mess of macros < 1278274415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it can do subpixel, cool < 1278274420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but different fonts, maybe they're just coloured bitmaps < 1278274424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, run "9fs sources" < 1278274424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-function like ones < 1278274430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in /n/sources/contrib there's like tons of fonts < 1278274433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep /font/ http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/index.html < 1278274445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was primarily thinking about plan9port, figured they would work the same when it came to that < 1278274462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, good question < 1278274465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget how to configure it < 1278274473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i suggest asking in #plan9. i'll even join to shut uriel up for you < 1278274488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nah. I'll just do some more digging < 1278274495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than that < 1278274496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll just mention how I really love using emacs to edit Linux/C++/GTK+ source that prints liberal propaganda.) < 1278274501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #plan9 is a nice channel apart from uriel. < 1278274507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /ignore uriel and it's a perfectly civilised place < 1278274515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does he have op? < 1278274518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278274521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278274524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meh < 1278274534 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if I had my way, it would have been Python < 1278274536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, continue wasting your time :P they're very helpful with plan9port questions in my experience < 1278274555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway kate can do that "insert tab on { or if or such" for C < 1278274556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but here's a hint < 1278274559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think the font setting is in ~/lib < 1278274562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/lib/profile i think < 1278274563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my experience is that it does it very well < 1278274563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some people still has other things to do, they can't do so what they want if. Would you like if someone killed you? If you commit suicide is same thiing. And in my opinion you also should not burn books. The biggest problem in the world is the people. But it doesn't mean we should just get rid of it like that. < 1278274578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is some TV show about serial killers that kill only other serial killers, if you have kill someone that is one way. < 1278274583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I expect there are corner cases it messes up on < 1278274591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are other complications < 1278274598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boots hda
< 1278274604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'll look for the font settings on plan 9 for you < 1278274606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boots qemu < 1278274612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes you have to take the path of the "lesser evil". < 1278274622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah it was plan9port I needed it for actually so.. < 1278274630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fun fact, plan9port is the same code. < 1278274640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes though it uses the X backend instead < 1278274647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1278274649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1278274651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might mean this bit is different < 1278274654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses drawterm. < 1278274658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which uses X < 1278274661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the exact same graphics code, just connected to via X. < 1278274665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But it's /pixels/. < 1278274668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aha < 1278274669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawterm is /pixels/. < 1278274671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that level < 1278274671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278274688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ~/lib/profile: < 1278274692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :font = /lib/font/bit/pelm/euro.9.font < 1278274698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278274735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so maybe look at $PLAN9/lib/profile < 1278274737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $PLAN9/lib/font < 1278274741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278275472 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-0-120.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f = open(self.filename, 'rb+') < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.write(text) < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.truncate() < 1278275512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.close() < 1278275516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would someone do this? < 1278275607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this" being what exactly? < 1278275615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use r+ instead of just using w there. < 1278275633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No good reason < 1278275664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. < 1278275669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't need the truncate with w, either. < 1278275676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What if you already have self.filename open? < 1278275690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1278275692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you would need the truncate, for other programs writing at the same time, but... < 1278275699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, truncating after write? < 1278275704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is this < 1278275706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: python < 1278275708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278275726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the semantics of multiple programs doing stuff to a file at the same time < 1278275743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "messy" as far as I remember < 1278275755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, this thing is going to write the file on every change. Fuck other programs :P < 1278275756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably < 1278275759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if the file changes size < 1278275782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if two processes mmap a file it is not really an issue < 1278275794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I wonder if Python can mmap. < 1278275799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, moving laptop and moving it to ethernet < 1278275808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it can < 1278275811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but not as a string. < 1278275877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maps length bytes from the file specified by the file descriptor fileno, and returns a mmap object. If length is 0, the maximum length of the map will be the current size of the file when mmap is called." < 1278275880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIVE BILLION BYTES < 1278275921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use mmap for the "file writing" semantics, than other files accessing it should work just fine. < 1278275948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As anything else opening a file will be using the same mmap'd buffer. < 1278275975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: mmap length is greater than file size < 1278275981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... shut up. < 1278275986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, things going through stdio might see an inconsistent view of the file, because of stdio buffering. < 1278276008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if someone is expecting that to work they should be shot anyways. < 1278276032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for Python's "in the background, after N seconds, do this"
< 1278276100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timer(N, do_this).start() < 1278276112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/sched.html yay < 1278276116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh. Which is better? < 1278276127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.5/library/threading.html < 1278276130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1278276144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timer looks simpler < 1278276318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually, it seems that just writing the file in full on every single change without a delay is fast enough. < 1278276328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, you know, cool. < 1278276332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would depend on your machine and the file size :-P < 1278276347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of text files do you edit? < 1278276358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ginormous ones? < 1278276362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally < 1278276371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How slow is your computer? :P < 1278276398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My disk is slow enough that writing megabytes every time I type something will be noticeable < 1278276430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the background. < 1278276470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter < 1278276524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As anything else opening a file will be using the same mmap'd buffer. <--- what if one opens() and mmaps() but the other only opens() and then uses read()/write()? < 1278276527 0 :ryan__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278276534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what if one truncates to less than the mmaped size < 1278276587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the mouse feet is off :( < 1278276667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:45:18 Deewiant: Actually, it seems that just writing the file in full on every single change without a delay is fast enough. <-- do this on a SSD using a log based fs? < 1278276727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway try that on a large image in gimp. See why it isn't fun to do so < 1278276739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite honsetly, it works just fine :P < 1278276741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*honestly < 1278276742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in, 50 MP panorama or such < 1278276748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIMP != text editor < 1278276752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes < 1278276767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for the special case of text editor I guess it works < 1278276924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AiPR < 1278276935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written Icochash now, I tested it it works. < 1278276946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, zzo38 is inventing word processors /and/ forms < 1278276959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, there is not yet the program to print out the data or to render to HTML or whatever < 1278277010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The http://sprunge.us/AiPR is a very simple example. < 1278277043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hopefully you can learn how it works a bit from this example? < 1278277046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon, zzo38 will have ZZOS. < 1278277057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it shall be the most bizarre yet amazing thing ever. < 1278277073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Please, please make a spreadsheet program. < 1278277080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be the world's only batch-mode spreadsheet program. < 1278277086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: One day I might make a spreadsheet program. But not right now < 1278277095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :D < 1278277200 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't invent a word processor? < 1278277260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the example code is understandable to you? < 1278277289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Icoruma is basically a batch-mode word processor. < 1278277320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK. Yes it is like that, but Icoruma is like a markup language and programming stuff, and specifically meant for role playing games. < 1278277334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma is not meant for anything other than role playing games. Icochash is also meant for role playing games. < 1278277431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is very wrong with this... hmm. < 1278277439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not general purpose programs and therefore do not contain some of the features you might expect in a word processing program, such as selecting different fonts, setting margins, and so on. < 1278277519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What is very wrong? < 1278277533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just my program, but I figured it out. < 1278277563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1278277681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of any algorithms that, when given text A, text B and (line,col) in text A, return the closest thing in text B? < 1278277682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reloading files < 1278277749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 06:48:41 Wow, someone actually bothered to clean up the video on the DVD release of The Next Generation and then encoded it all with x264 on super-high settings, yielding a 550 MiB-per-episode average. < 1278277755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am intrigued. < 1278277769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By TNG, I mean /every single season/, incidentally. < 1278277775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want links? < 1278277784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278277796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to have someone else download it for me. :) < 1278277804 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would rather stream it
< 1278277806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds you the torrentz.com versions, since they have a list of trackers (making downloads a lot faster).
< 1278277837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, it's almost 100 GiB for the whole thing. < 1278277842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 GiB or something. < 1278277849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Terabytes are cheap. < 1278277869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, the seeders are a bit... preoccupied with other people, so it won't be fast. < 1278277873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that the guy I'm talking to has uncapped Internet and a 5TB RAID ATM. < 1278277896 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's HD is 100GiB
< 1278277906 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278277916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: $80 gets you an order of magnitude increase. < 1278277929 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just want a new computer < 1278278093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 200 GB hard drive. (It is the smallest one they sold) And only 5% of the capacity is used < 1278278103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.pulse360.com/blob/7e/2f91ba2_ecruzSwipeBids.jpg that does not look like an iPad to me < 1278278111 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think iPads have menus like that < 1278278114 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be mistaken < 1278278146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need iPad < 1278278247 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants an Android tablet
< 1278278298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants people to quit being so excited by tablets when the form factor sucks :P
< 1278278320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: As opposed to wearable computing, which had a totally hip and usable form factor. < 1278278333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it's a silly, ridiculous joke. < 1278278342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Apple ever makes a wearable computer, I'll have no interest in it. < 1278278356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The form factor, that is. < 1278278424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want any tablet, especially if it doesn't have a physical keyboard built in. Perhaps I would be more likely to buy it if it has Forth. < 1278278469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even if it doesn't have Forth, it ought to be able that I can put C programs on it without any mess from Apple or whatever < 1278278649 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write C stuff for Android.. kind of. You'd still need to write some Java, and you couldn't write it on the device itself < 1278278677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be simple enough to make a Forth interpreter, though, right? < 1278278682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this bullshit! < 1278278687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes < 1278278688 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Python and Ruby and.. thingy interpreters < 1278278692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You sure have changed your opinion :P < 1278278695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing Forth interpreter is simple < 1278278715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what does it mean "write C stuf for Android.. kind of"? < 1278278745 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think so, it was always silly, just good silly fun. < 1278278750 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do logic and 3d stuff (I think) in C, but you still need to write some Java < 1278278757 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or other JVM language < 1278278764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but you liked it :P < 1278278768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? < 1278278769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it have to use JVM? < 1278278773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like esoteric programming languages. < 1278278776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And you don't now < 1278278790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I say I don't like wearable computing? < 1278278794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lurve wearable computing. < 1278278799 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, because that's what Android does (although strictly, it turns JVM bytecode into Dalvik bytecode, I think) < 1278278803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1278278820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's wearable computer would just be a sleek, thin, ultralight aluminium tshirt and an eye implant. < 1278278824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What is Dalvik bytecode? < 1278278833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tshirt would also include integrated gloves. < 1278278834 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278278836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can write C stuff for Android.. kind of. You'd still need to write some Java, and you couldn't write it on the device itself <-- n900! < 1278278837 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing even the simplest thing in haskell is so fucking tiring < 1278278840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way better :P < 1278278844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's because you suck < 1278278844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/12674501 <- he's so awesome < 1278278852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's a mormon! < 1278278855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this keynote < 1278278855 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, it's because you suck < 1278278860 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm distracted. < 1278278868 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luby on lails < 1278278899 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to do a simple thing in Haskell, ended up doing it in Python. Then again, I have far more Python experience than experience in any other language, so... < 1278278924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Android not support native code? < 1278278931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but not very well < 1278278939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it does, but rather limited what you can interface with it < 1278278954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do the GUI bits in java iirc < 1278278955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wearable computing with eyetracking-based interfaces. The best thing since sliced bread. < 1278278976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like HMDs? < 1278278989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an eyetracker to select lines in a file. < 1278278994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278279000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMDs are cool < 1278279006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Java like the IO monad, and native code like pure code? < 1278279034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What is that, is that Haskell? < 1278279036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad analogy for anything where C is involved < 1278279058 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1278279075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The current NDK has OpenGL ES support from native code, and also something called "libjnigraphics" which is supposed to be an efficient and comfortable way for pushing pixel buffers from native code to be displayed. But still, if you want actual platform-like GUI stuff, that needs to be done in Java. < 1278279132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and neither opengl nor "libjnigraphics" presumably includes input drivers for example? < 1278279142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, driver is wrong word < 1278279143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1278279166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most likely you're going to do some JNI for input, but of course you can probably pretty easily just pass some events onwards to native code. < 1278279181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278279206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I still can't get a shell, right? < 1278279209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike on n900 < 1278279243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how it goes with jailbreakery, but not on a stock phone, no. < 1278279254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1278279386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with a full POSIX environment? < 1278279549 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278279608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it needs is a cellular phone model with physical keyboard and command-line-interface, no proprietary hardware/software, one color display inside and one small monochrome display on the outside, the GNU GPL v3, and that any AT command can be entered on the keyboard, and a built-in Forth interpreter, and no useless animations < 1278279638 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ability to provide a USB file system to a computer it is connected to. < 1278279659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, go design that one < 1278279680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting a completely non-proprietary GSM/3G radio stack going might not be completely trivial. < 1278279692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also clamshell phones suck < 1278279701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to break in the hinges in my experience < 1278279778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion it is important to be able to close, to stop accident push any buttons and also to save power by turning off the color display when it is not used. < 1278279807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that is why you have some sort of lock < 1278279810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1278279832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on my phone, middle button below screen, followed by * < 1278279835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locks/unlocks < 1278279844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a non-smartphone < 1278279845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't close then where is room for the keyboard? < 1278279864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, keypad. Anyway n900 has a keyboard you can slide out < 1278279882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slide-out seems to be more popular than fold-open nowadays. < 1278279891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably breaks less < 1278279894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's easier to do reliably, yes. < 1278279932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they need touch screen as well (although multitouch is not needed), so that you can dial telephone numbers more easily, and then put the physical QWERTY keyboard for entering more complex stuff or if you do not want to get the display dirty with your fingerprints. < 1278279948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the drivers for the GSM/3G stack on your phone, are they binary blobs? < 1278279949 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think slide-out is patented? < 1278279979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All handset manufacturers at least seem to be doing it; patented or not. < 1278279996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds too trivial to be patented to me, but, well... patents. < 1278279998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the n900 come with a pen for the touch screen as well? < 1278280015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if so, is it storeable somewhere inside the phone? < 1278280043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's uncomfortably many binary blobs in the N900, yes. It's still not as bad as it could be, though; lots of drivers have their sources visible too. < 1278280059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. So upgrading to the last kernel might be non-trivial? < 1278280062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And yes, there is a stylus, which is stored inside the phone. < 1278280106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aren't people reverse engineering the binary blobs? < 1278280116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1278280129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably more interesting things to hack for them to bother. People are such pragmatists. < 1278280137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278280265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently based on 2.6.28, but there's probably a pile of patches on top of it. The kernel sources used are somewhat easily available, though, if you want to build a patched/reconfigured one. < 1278280271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my idea, the touch-screen is only needed for more easily dialing telephone numbers (and also possibly for scrolling), but everything can be done without touch-screen as well. All commands are enterable by keyboard. < 1278280294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1278280314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange it hasn't upgraded to 2.6.30 or newer at least < 1278280330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what about games? < 1278280340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, touch screen could be needed there < 1278280342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the kernel is heavily hacked < 1278280404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MeeGo 1.0 kernel is based on 2.6.33.3, and you can install that on the N900 if you want. (I doubt it works very well yet, though.) < 1278280419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can program another program to use touch screen for other stuff (such as games if you write any), but all built-in functions are enterable by keyboard, including some games. < 1278280448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "Day1 Developer Preview" for a reason. < 1278280451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you opened and then to call a phone number, you can enter the AT commands on the keyboard, or you can touch the screen to display the keypad < 1278280462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1278280482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i hate your police < 1278280486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the replacement for the n900 line? n9? < 1278280487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There does not need to be any games built in, what I meant is that you can write games that use only the keyboard, such as Rogue) < 1278280490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1278280495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok the police in another city in another province in your country :P < 1278280516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: n900 is still latest in its line < 1278280522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's just rumours (of N9) so far. < 1278280532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, not more than that. I see < 1278280534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 03:15, 26 June 2010 Fastily (talk | contribs) deleted "Nokia N9" ‎ (Expired PROD, concern was: Unsourced, unreleased phone) < 1278280573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And N8 is an announced-but-I-think-not-yet-out Symbian^3 phone, which they've said will be the only Symbian^3 N-series device; rest will be MeeGo, and maybe Symbian^4 some day in the far future. < 1278280623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278280630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't symbian very shitty? < 1278280633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278280638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It drives programmers to suicide. < 1278280646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They're trying to unshittify it, but with not much luck so far. < 1278280663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian is, indeed, very ſhitty. < 1278280668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will now unshittify this piece of shit!" < 1278280670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it in power usage, compared to meego? < 1278280673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are left with ... nothing!" < 1278280678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard maemo was a bit heavy on power < 1278280694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Better, I'd assume, lacking such heavy things as "a Linux kernel". < 1278280704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MeeGo? < 1278280708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that that open thing? < 1278280711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1278280716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MeEgo < 1278280722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Gregor should sue! < 1278280722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It's the merging of Nokia's Maemo and Intel's... Moblin, was it? < 1278280726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moblin, yes. < 1278280730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mob Linux. < 1278280742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for the first freebsd phone
< 1278280748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N8 hardware is not too shabby, but nothing too excessive either; 640x360 AMOLED screen, 680 MHz CPU, 256M RAM and so on. It does have a 12-megapixel camera with a real Xenon flash, which I think is pretty rare for a phone. < 1278280769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what CPU? < 1278280773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"High-end" phones nowadays seem to be around 1 GHz clockspeeds and half a gig of RAM. < 1278280774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM? < 1278280783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're always ARM. < 1278280789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1278280798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some ARM11 or another, maybe one of the OMAP platform chipsets. < 1278280812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so, how fast was n900? < 1278280839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 MHz ARM. < 1278280855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snapdragon is hawt. < 1278280855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278280862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is that? < 1278280868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 1GHz ARM platform. < 1278280879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Snapdragon application processor core, dubbed Scorpion, is Qualcomm's own design and is not based on any ARM core from ARM holdings. It has many features similar to those of the ARM Cortex-A8 core, but has much higher performance for multimedia-related SIMD operations.[1][2] All Snapdragon processors contain the circuitry to decode High-Definition (HD) video at 720p resolution.[3] The GPU is AMD Z430. < 1278280893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something else at that clockspeed nowadays too. < 1278280897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1GHz ARM. On-chip 720p video decoding. < 1278280913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And remember that an N MHz ARM is better-performing than an N MHz old x86. < 1278280916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe not new x86s.) < 1278280937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what we need, is Icochash templates for D&D 3.5e games. I can write some but I would like to do collaboration as well of these things < 1278280967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should rewrite your website/gopherhole in Icoruma. You could use that form package to do Chronojournal's forms. < 1278280974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be awesome and ridiculous. < 1278281003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It would be completely ridiculous. Icoruma and Icochash is not meant for such things and it probably won't work such well like that. < 1278281011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OMAP isn't 1GHz. < 1278281026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe the common term is "gopherspace" not "gopherhole") < 1278281027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, why not? Icoruma typesets documents pretty well, Icochash seems to just be a form generator. < 1278281033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but gopherhole is a nicer term. :P < 1278281042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, wait: "# OMAP4440 - 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX 540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)". < 1278281042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK then use that term if you want to < 1278281045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently announced, apparently. < 1278281054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/BeagleBoard_described.jpg 600MHz ARM -- laptop-like performance! < 1278281055 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, learning how to make a hash tree in haskell is difficult. < 1278281077 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you know anything about dependent typing? < 1278281082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: quite a lot. < 1278281098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dabble in type theory a lot. < 1278281140 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what can i use dependant typing for < 1278281150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing your PhD thesis. < 1278281163 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a real-world use case < 1278281167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes Icoruma can typeset documents and stuff, but it doesn't support external hyperlinks and that kind of stuff.... Icoruma and Icochash are not meant for this stuff. There are good uses for Icoruma and Icochash but they are not meant for general-purpose things like this < 1278281169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, only 128 MB? < 1278281195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma and Icochash are meant only for role playing games. While you can do a few other things with it, it isn't that good for those other kind of things that is other than role playing game. < 1278281199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: On a more serious note, http://strictlypositive.org/winging-jpgs/ provides some justification and real-world use-cases for IO handling. Really they have many, many applications, but the problem is that there are several issues right now and so at the present time they are research only. < 1278281227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: They would make languages like Haskell much more expressive in what they accept, and allow more program errors to be caught at runtime. < 1278281238 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1278281241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the mathematical connections in that a dependent type checker is a proof checker, exploited to create constructivist proof systems such as Coq. < 1278281246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at runtime? what about compile time then? < 1278281251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, at compile time. < 1278281252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1278281255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1278281255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could different types of exceptions be one use case???\ < 1278281256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on < 1278281265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Um ... I'm not sure what you mean by that. < 1278281276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either < 1278281278 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad we agree then < 1278281287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said this thing? :-) < 1278281338 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean???? < 1278281351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, i'm looking at your link now < 1278281354 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1278281364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume that if you're agreeing with me that it makes no sense, then you're trying to figure out what some other person meant when they said dependent types would help with that. < 1278281364 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think dependent typing can make it into haskell? < 1278281371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No. Very unlikely. < 1278281380 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voices in my head said < 1278281380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a massive language change, and also make redundant many common features. < 1278281384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'shh... ask alise about that' < 1278281394 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know about them? < 1278281397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one day we'll get "Haskell++", the official, dependently-typed successor to Haskell. < 1278281410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Um ... I hung out in the wrong places too much (#haskell) and got sucked in to the whirlpool. < 1278281430 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan11 :D < 1278281436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hey, that's my project! < 1278281452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i'm extremely curious < 1278281458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: btw don't worry if winging it stops making sense about half way through < 1278281459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not plan10? < 1278281461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: would adding dependant typing to haskell create backwards compatibility breakage? < 1278281468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: just hang on there and wait until he starts quoting hamlet < 1278281475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not adding it, but there'd be a lot of redundant features then < 1278281480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would require major MAJOR restructuring of ghc < 1278281485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a HUGE HUGE HUGE, OLD OLD OLD codebase < 1278281493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because plan 11 is plan 9 turned up to 11 < 1278281504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not drop ghc and go with one of the other ones < 1278281513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, augh! < 1278281517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY) < 1278281525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for $$$$$ I could make you one that goes to 12 < 1278281566 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: such as what? < 1278281579 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fuck ghc, it's not haskell < 1278281592 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we can finally get a GOOD interpreter if people ditch ghc < 1278281698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, good compiler would be even better? < 1278281731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow now you're getting out of bounds < 1278281752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, ? < 1278281759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just broke my kb < 1278281762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spilled coke on it < 1278281766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work < 1278281769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ghc is one of the finest pieces of software engineering ever < 1278281770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you spill your seed on it < 1278281770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1278281771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't it coke resistant? < 1278281774 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok coke < 1278281789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the interpreter fucking sucks < 1278281796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and i hadn't even used the compiler yet < 1278281812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: The compiler is stellar. < 1278281814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm ghci is just ghc on a command line < 1278281817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a compiler < 1278281821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it < 1278281828 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1278281830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci fucking sucks < 1278281836 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even use readline < 1278281839 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wtf? < 1278281846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icochash is not really a form generator, it is a bit different. It is meant for things such as D&D character sheets. It can be used to template character sheets, check for changes, do calculations, provide presets for races/classes/spells/feats/skills, etc. < 1278281847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278281849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're retarded < 1278281851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses editline < 1278281856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please just shut up < 1278281882 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????? < 1278281882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is one of the best compilers for a language out there. < 1278281906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While it could be possible to print blank forms with Icochash, it would also be possible to print forms with everything already filled in < 1278281917 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a impudence < 1278281951 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise < 1278281956 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call a pointless race that covers 2200 miles throughout France? < 1278281992 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitulation race? < 1278281992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tour de australia < 1278281993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always found it funny that wesnoth has a "--disable-game" configure option < 1278281998 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278282004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: attempting to get out of france? < 1278282007 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1278282009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1278282011 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The French. < 1278282016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol! < 1278282017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Server, right? < 1278282022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it is just --disable-client (for building just the server) it is stilly a funny name for it < 1278282025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: :D < 1278282031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...pick their noses and smoke cigarettes like they were gay < 1278282032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but --disable-client would have been more sensible < 1278282040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1278282041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: So, Plan 11. < 1278282041 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tell me how i can use it ctrl + leftarrow to skip words in ghci neow < 1278282055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: use a better ghc compile with editline < 1278282064 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ....? :D < 1278282065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure editline understands your terminal < 1278282070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Well, you were interested. < 1278282073 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1278282074 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ghci is from ubuntu < 1278282079 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be no better ghci < 1278282098 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1278282105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: then make sure it knows your terminal < 1278282107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: so ask something :P < 1278282128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it works in vim < 1278282134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to get used to the kb
< 1278282138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: jesus christ < 1278282142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you don't know shit about terminals < 1278282144 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how is it going to be different from 9 ? < 1278282150 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well tell me how to do it < 1278282162 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just shouting at me won't make me feel better :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( < 1278282164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: JFGI < 1278282172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* alise tries to get used to the kb <-- the coke you mean? < 1278282172 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo < 1278282178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, its replacement < 1278282186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not using a kb with coke on its circuitry and keys < 1278282188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it died from coke!? < 1278282192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Apple A4, which is a Cortex-A8-family ARM core at 1 GHz in the iPad, apparently possibly something lower in the iPhone 4. < 1278282194 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise got used to coke after her first week in the red light district < 1278282194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, eww; two, *kaboom* < 1278282196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, clean it out < 1278282200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or just use this one. < 1278282204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm < 1278282221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also what did you learn from this? < 1278282221 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his* < 1278282228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't spill glasses < 1278282250 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so did you wash it < 1278282257 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...--disable-game? < 1278282257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not either of: a) keyboards are shit b) keep coke further away from computer ? < 1278282258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no, it's just sitting there < 1278282260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both < 1278282260 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can make it work perfectly well with a wash. < 1278282270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it may have still worked, i just didn't want to find out. < 1278282272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm lazy. < 1278282283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and it's hard to keep my mouth away from my keyboard :P < 1278282292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically it was before it got in my mouth. < 1278282297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a wash. Try 90° with 500 RPM centrifuge < 1278282298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1278282308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KLANG KLANG KLANG BASH WALLOP KABOOM < 1278282312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1278282334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kling-Klang. < 1278282335 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1278282344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Kling-Klong < 1278282347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kling-Klang. < 1278282347 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1278282348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klingon? < 1278282357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kraftwerk reference :P < 1278282357 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clogg < 1278282370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, meh, you expected me to spot THAT? < 1278282376 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should have said 'a rinse' < 1278282382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, which is why I said it. < 1278282388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks I guess < 1278282396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, why I said the reference :P < 1278282405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1278282409 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: /quit tiuq\ < 1278282412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was a reference < 1278282416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden is a pretty cool name for an editor < 1278282421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION refuses to hear the other version
< 1278282428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ?? < 1278282444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, jelly. < 1278282475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jelly coke would be harder to spill I mean. < 1278282478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the solution < 1278282506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jelly coke. < 1278282507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1278282514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question. < 1278282517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you patent that or do you need a way to actually produce jelly coke first? < 1278282518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you drink it? < 1278282519 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE 11 < 1278282540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with a spoon < 1278282543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1278282579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as long as it contains the same amount of energy and tastes the same, who cares if you eat it with a spoon or drink it < 1278282637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if someone wants carbonated jelly that might present a challenge. But I never liked carbonated drinks. Uncarbonated coke (put some sugar in) is nice though < 1278282645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pinball game I like best is this one: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_12/jigglebox.png < 1278282658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides setting his broken editor to edit a test file, not the editor's code, is a good idea
< 1278282671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes < 1278282676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Put some sugar in coke? It's already 99% sugar :P < 1278282684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put honey in coke once, that was ... interesting ... < 1278282690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure but you know about mentos? < 1278282693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that is called < 1278282697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1278282701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diet Coke + Mentos = YouTube video. < 1278282712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sugar has a similar, but somewhat less violent effect < 1278282727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard of someone that put Coke + Pepsi together, they thought it would explode but it didn't explode < 1278282738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should explode from sheer cognitive dissonance. < 1278282741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it lets you get rid of the carbonation without causing youtube video < 1278282754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Dr Pepper is clearly the best caramel-coloured drink. < 1278282761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a taste finer than any wine! < 1278282768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1278282774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer water to tell the truth < 1278282775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278282776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people prefer wine < 1278282781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :water isn't caramel-coloured < 1278282782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1278282782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer water < 1278282793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you could add some food colouring to water < 1278282796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get it that way < 1278282818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still maintain that alcoholic drinks don't taste nice at all; evidence: unpopularity of alcohol-free imitation drinks. < 1278282850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are counterexamples, such as cider, which we can see tastes nice because non-alcoholic cider is very popular. < 1278282861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1278282913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason that alcohol-free counterparts are unpopular is because if ppl can drink alcoholic drinks, why would they spend their money on non alcoholic drinks < 1278282918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1278282927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because the alcoholic one gets them drunk < 1278282936 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1278282936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, people think alcoholic drinks taste nice because they get them drunk, and the brain creates the association < 1278282939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why would anyone drink alcohol? < 1278282942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcoholic drink <=> pleasure < 1278282948 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get drunk ofc < 1278282965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh, because of the hangover? < 1278282975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh if you want to have an altered state of mind, cannabis would be preferable to alcohol < 1278282994 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a state than can be called pleasant, before the hangover < 1278282999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so would (pure) LSD I understand. < 1278283007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less side effects on stuff like liver < 1278283013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsd is awesome < 1278283017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but it's probably easier to code on weed than LSD. < 1278283022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haha :P < 1278283027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People prefer different kind of these things < 1278283027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is, after all, the point! < 1278283040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way if you want altered state of mind, is, simply, practise. < 1278283055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEDITATION: It's, like, totally wack. < 1278283055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what, the Balmer peak? < 1278283059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is that the point? < 1278283077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the ballmer peak produces perfectly working, but unreadable code < 1278283089 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked < 1278283091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn't it produce windows ME iirc? < 1278283094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the analogue is for weed, it produces utterly incomprehensible, yet stunningly beautiful, elegant code that does nothing useful whatsoever < 1278283097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm coding on meditation, that might be a nice ide < 1278283099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea* < 1278283115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would be ... difficult. < 1278283128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to write code when slightly drunk, but the best ideas come to you when you're *slightly* stoned < 1278283140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and what about LSD? It produces utterly incomprehensible demos that fits in 4 kB and raytraces in realtime? < 1278283148 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1278283173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278283178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome if it did! < 1278283190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you use a computer when everything is melting? < 1278283195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be ridiculous < 1278283202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps not that much lsd? < 1278283209 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it extends you consciousness < 1278283217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never tried it
< 1278283223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I'd say it just alters your state of mind. :P < 1278283227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that's really hard to express in human language < 1278283243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use LSD, never plan to use LSD, don't recomend to other people to use LSD, but I won't stop someone from doing so if they really want to < 1278283244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's easy. The words are "being slightly stoned". < 1278283259 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1278283271 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, it was only a single experiment < 1278283274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use LSD, don't plan to use LSD, recommend to other people to use LSD, and would stop someone from doing so. < 1278283280 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don;t buy this stuff < 1278283284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recommend it either. Just saying that from what I heard it has less side effects than alcohol < 1278283299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is probably true < 1278283306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't drink alcoholic either < 1278283315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't plan to drink alcoholic < 1278283329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SMOKE EVIL CIGARETTES < 1278283330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID FUCKING GTKSOURCEVIEW < 1278283343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why on earth are you using that... < 1278283346 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm radioactive < 1278283355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i'm writing an editor < 1278283359 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't smoke. But I wouldn't like if someone else smoke near me because the smoke affect everyone < 1278283368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and? why gtksourceview for that < 1278283369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278283380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because pygtk is really easy when it's not breaking for no apparent reason < 1278283384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it does that's gtk's fault :P < 1278283385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah < 1278283401 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't exhale the smoke in other ppl general direction < 1278283405 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it mean < 1278283406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you are like import randall suddenly? ;P < 1278283417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't even make any sense! < 1278283430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and don't stand just outside doors smoking? < 1278283438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't smoke when you are near other people that tell you to stop smoking. If you want to smoke anyways go elsewhere < 1278283452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, ppl would have to walk through the cloud < 1278283457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, better, don't smoke at all < 1278283460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unpleasant even for smokers < 1278283461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, that is the worst bit I can tell you. I have asthma so smokers just outside the university entrance are a pita < 1278283480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1278283491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, better stop smoking < 1278283497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be hard I'm told < 1278283510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like heroin < 1278283514 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hell < 1278283547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with your cancer later on < 1278283557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm can you vaporise tobacco like cannabis? < 1278283558 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well :D < 1278283560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ... strange < 1278283568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unpleasant < 1278283580 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is something called e-cigarette < 1278283592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is e-cigarette? < 1278283596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that thing < 1278283601 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it vaporizes some solution of nicotin and flavour oils < 1278283618 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's, most probably, harmless < 1278283649 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the 'smoke' smells good and it's not irritating to the environment < 1278283675 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like it ;| < 1278283840 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278284058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot! < 1278284061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaden can edit text reliably < 1278284082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cigarette smoke smells good < 1278284106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278284130 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278284135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what kind of editor are you writing? < 1278284148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: a code editor, and something basically unlike anything else. < 1278284155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more specific question may get a more specific answer :) < 1278284192 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what language? < 1278284212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything gtksourceview supports, but mainly the usual suspects: c, python, haskell < 1278284226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax highlighting and basic editor controls are provided by gtksourceview; the rest is me. < 1278284237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basic editing controls doesn't mean i won't add my own, ofc) < 1278284251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to have to code the indentation logic myself since gtksourceview can't do it < 1278284278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it opens, displays a hardcoded file, and automatically saves every single change to disk, and automatically reads any change made by another program < 1278284294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unlimited undo, scrolls, you can resize the window, it copies the last line's indent, and it highlights < 1278284301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it so far < 1278284302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it have undo tree < 1278284310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you undo, then do something new < 1278284317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you go back to the undone version < 1278284324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no; remember, vcs commits replace saves < 1278284334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just pressing Ctrl+S can help your undo tree endeavours < 1278284335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tree undo is still very nice < 1278284338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a sufficiently advanced VCS < 1278284345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i'll consider it, but i have undo done for me atm :))) < 1278284364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if vcs commits are so easy i think they'll become instinctive enough that you don't need tree undo < 1278284372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general undo graph < 1278284376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc both emacs and vim can have tree undo < 1278284381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is editing leaden with itself, that's so daring
< 1278284386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that sounds awesome yet impractical < 1278284387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with emacs it's an elisp extension though < 1278284398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably. But then a lot of emacs is ! < 1278284404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's hideously irresponsible to edit this with the save-on-every-change feature when it doesn't also have the trivial-version-control feature < 1278284406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it means < 1278284411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has unlimited undo (quite literally) < 1278284413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eh, who cares < 1278284427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which VCS? I suggest darcs! < 1278284443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll probably support many (and decide which to use by seeing which has a directory nearby) < 1278284449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278284454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use git right now, so that'll probably get in first < 1278284464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what will it do if it sees both .hg, .git, .bzr and .svn? < 1278284466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1278284469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/both/all of/ < 1278284471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yell at you < 1278284481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice. Will it use audio? < 1278284485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278284488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests something
< 1278284520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'll use a kernel exploit to take control of your whole system, replace the whole screen with an epileptic-flashing goatse, and blast white noise through your speakers while beeping your pc speaker if you have one < 1278284522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux ~/test $ hg init . < 1278284522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@tux ~/test $ bzr init . < 1278284524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg add . < 1278284526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr add . < 1278284527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1278284532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, maybe it'll just say "You suck at version control; disabling auto-save mode." < 1278284567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding .hg/store/data/.bzr < 1278284568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1278284592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i once added a repository's .git to the repository < 1278284594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ... confusing < 1278284600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh < 1278284612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, him this doesn't ever become a stable loop < 1278284618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if one could manufacture a stable loop < 1278284619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw! my cursor synchronisation isn't working < 1278284623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this feature, you see < 1278284629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1278284630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when someone else modifies the file from underneath you < 1278284636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll keep your cursor as close as possible to where it was < 1278284643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not textually, not that advanced < 1278284646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but same offset from start of file < 1278284647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could one manufacture a stable loop out of two VCS < 1278284649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should be in the same sort of vicinity < 1278284651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no :P < 1278284673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ... quite liberating to not have to press save < 1278284673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you couldn't do it by normal means, but if one allows some sort of compression like "same as that other file" then it should be possible < 1278284675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda weird, though < 1278284676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to manually do it < 1278284679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep trying to hit ctrl+s instinctively < 1278284701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now I feel an urge for a vcs quine! < 1278284704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the zip one < 1278284707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with vcs < 1278284708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1278284710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1278284725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a dir r, which contains a repo without a working tree < 1278284725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1278284729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get a working tree < 1278284731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's keeping the position, but scrolling up, bizarrely < 1278284743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would contain a directory r < 1278284745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1278284746 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git repo where you can check out a git repo containing the first git repo? nice :) < 1278284755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, git or some other one < 1278284770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, doesn't really matter which one. It is awesome with any < 1278284775 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1278284793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can't have working trees all the way down < 1278284848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i could set line height < 1278284854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to be a bit bigger to be comfortable < 1278284894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you using monospace? < 1278284901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the scrolled view is still resetting < 1278284902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how queer < 1278284905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1278284913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that concession to the past, at least, is made :P < 1278284934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, most source would be annoying to edit without monospace < 1278284939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is apple script but meh < 1278284944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really count < 1278284947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so weird anyway < 1278284949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's not like I'm not already breaking 100 conventions here :P < 1278284962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with elastic tabstops you could easily use proportional < 1278284972 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278284972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smalltalk uses proportional :P < 1278284977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and no one else could easily edit the code < 1278284992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, they serialise to regular tabs afaik < 1278284996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1278285002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it works then < 1278285017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I doubt every smalltalk does that < 1278285024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't there one that uses files for the source < 1278285025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1278285025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every smalltalk derived from the original < 1278285035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but gnu smalltalk is smalltalk-the-language, not smalltalk-the-smalltalk < 1278285040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1278285051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code looks quite nice in Droid Serif 12... < 1278285053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me experimenting :P < 1278285059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, talk? < 1278285062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh < 1278285066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget I said anything < 1278285068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't talk small, talk big < 1278285084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there totally needs to be an esolang called bigtalk < 1278285099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigchat < 1278285125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradigm: message-passing messages < 1278285127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only things are messages < 1278285131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messages pass messages to other messages < 1278285157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god leaden is like the best text editor ever already < 1278285164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you have to edit the source code to open a different file < 1278285176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1278285176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only supports python highlighting < 1278285180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't autoindent, and has no ui < 1278285194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.scrolled_view.set_hadjustment(hadjustment) < 1278285194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.scrolled_view.set_vadjustment(vadjustment) < 1278285196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it do IRC? < 1278285196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't this working... < 1278285200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, and it never will :P < 1278285206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, printf() debug those < 1278285224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, I might actually make a fork just to do that if it gets anywhere < 1278285224 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278285226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*might* < 1278285238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to annoy you < 1278285247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no printf in python :P < 1278285255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well print then < 1278285261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but printf debugging is a specific term < 1278285268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1278285278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which applies to languages where it is called something else < 1278285296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I would say printf debugging for erlang too. even though technically it would be erlang:display or io:format < 1278285329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this semester i was teaching C < 1278285341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1278285351 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what i noticed is that students don't get the idea of pointers and structures and stuff < 1278285386 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow they're weak at visualising this stuff < 1278285392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, evrything points to it working < 1278285399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything < 1278285484 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not looking hard enough for errors, obviously < 1278285489 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought it would be cool to write an interpreter of reasonable subset of C together with nice, small IDE that would visualize the execution process, evaluation of expressions and all this stuff < 1278285512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i've looked pretty damn hard < 1278285514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is gtk being wonky < 1278285541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would highlight fragments of code in runtime and show objects in memory as boxes connected with pointers (arrows) < 1278285549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1030513.txt?key=60u3wyfrcl5be6yl2ie4g ;; it's in read_file; the two print statements show that the scrollbar is being restored correctly, yet it is still scrolled to the top of the window < 1278285551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense < 1278285553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything would be interactive and easy to use < 1278285561 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm too lazy to wrote such thing < 1278285564 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write* < 1278285568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, the editor thing does its own scrolling too < 1278285570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that'll fuck it up < 1278285590 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1278285596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi python < 1278285644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find me something easier for this < 1278285680 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR dealing with gtk in ruby wasn't pleasant :| < 1278285707 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278285734 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1278286074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in ~20-30mins < 1278286367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and what i noticed is that students don't get the idea of pointers and structures and stuff < 1278286368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : somehow they're weak at visualising this stuff < 1278286369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1278286392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C teacher I had spent a lot of time on it drawing on the whiteboard. I knew C since before of course < 1278286404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought it was maybe too much < 1278286406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1278286418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial if you just start with the actual low-level memory stuff rather than attempt to fluff it up with boxes and arrows < 1278286491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you knew it was going to be boxes and arrows? rather than circles and arrows for example? < 1278286514 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always boxes, you need to put stuff in them later on < 1278286522 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put stuff in boxes, not in circles < 1278286530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, but you put stuff in circles in state diagrams! < 1278286544 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those circles are merely labeled < 1278286549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1278286934 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would provide 2 views < 1278286943 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for comparison < 1278287049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ? < 1278287080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what are you talking about? < 1278287222 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vgtv.no/?id=31144 :D < 1278287366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I can't parse the Norwegian < 1278287375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "vannkrig" < 1278287379 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vattenkrig < 1278287381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and why is there a huge black box there < 1278287390 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black box is the video containing the funny < 1278287395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, flash? < 1278287400 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1278287414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks if he can extract the *.flv
< 1278287476 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're overdoing it < 1278287488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, they dropped flash for amd64 again < 1278287490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *shrug* < 1278287501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, there is absolutely nothing I can do < 1278287504 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your browser can't run 32-bit plugins on 64-bit? < 1278287523 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure I actually have 32-bit flash on my 64-bit system < 1278287524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it can't run security risks either. It is too paranoid for that. < 1278287825 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278287905 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278287910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: about my idea of visual debugger for dummies < 1278287962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278287991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ?? < 1278287999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what idea is this?