< 1276992022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fart. < 1276992393 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ksf has a look at alise_'s code and decides its' abstract nonsense < 1276992401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- in #haskell, commenting on something as simple as the definition of a kleene star < 1276992405 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=26386) < 1276992407 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the kleene star < 1276992418 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To repeat: A Haskeller, complaining that a simple definition is abstract nonsense. < 1276992432 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the kleene star, imnsho, is a primitive, not a derived expression... < 1276992546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can define it recursively in terms of a n indeponent semiring, but that's usually not what you want, as you can't analyse a recursive haskell definition < 1276992668 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1276992860 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he's saying it might as well be a primitive? < 1276992875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1276992883 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you can't really analize ANY definition in Haskell < 1276992894 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, not from within haskell, iiuc < 1276992929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise_, btw, [[]] = [] < 1276992969 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks a few times < 1276992990 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksf appears to be rather stupid. < 1276992992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]:[] /= [] < 1276993025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in the context of some function? < 1276993058 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was wrong there, too. < 1276993182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I defined regular expressions hideously inefficiently. < 1276993331 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what if my issue with LambdaMOO culture seems to exist only because I was talking with one or two people? < 1276993339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1011883.txt?key=udjvaf5xdbikad1h6ug5sw < 1276993348 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe those people don't represent the whole community, the way ksf doesn't represent all Haskellers < 1276993405 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw MUD communities < 1276993409 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1276993422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...IRC refused to keep me logged in to my main nickname. < 1276993425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*refuses < 1276993460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means someone has NickServ protecting it < 1276993475 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not quite. < 1276993482 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just dc and it gives me my alt nick < 1276993492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's registered as mine though. < 1276993498 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1276993498 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1276993523 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be linked actually. < 1276993529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SevenInchBread < 1276993534 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1276993535 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1276993593 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a language, Erlang could be vastly improved. < 1276993627 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised version: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=26388 < 1276993629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty nice though. < 1276993695 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I lied, none of this works: the infinite stuff means it never gets to the alternatives of infinite things. < 1276993697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: some kind of regular expression machine? < 1276993701 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Got another word yet? < 1276993706 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Pretty much; a broken one. < 1276993722 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Specifically, it represents a regular expression as the set (list) of strings that match it. < 1276993723 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicle. < 1276993752 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced /ˈtʃɪkəl/, rhyming with "tickle". < 1276993757 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: neat < 1276993792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell have a standard library set data type? < 1276993892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Data.Set. < 1276993897 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Another word! < 1276993910 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vulcanized. < 1276993914 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: AGAIN < 1276993919 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pages. < 1276994091 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: it looks wonderfully efficient from what I can tell. :) < 1276994163 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Set? Yes. < 1276994169 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Something slightly less random... < 1276994180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ha, no. I meant your program. < 1276994201 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's not. < 1276994211 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, (x ||| y) never gets to y if x is infinite. < 1276994213 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is deeply flawed. < 1276994225 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And matching is very slow; it must generate all possible strings before the one you've inputted. < 1276994242 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less random? Aw. < 1276994242 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there are an infinite set of strings, (x `elem` y) where x does NOT match y, diverges and does not terminate. < 1276994248 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes. :P < 1276994253 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pages. Pages. Pages. Pages. Pages. < 1276994257 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-random words. :P < 1276994287 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call a small hole cut near the edge of something so that it can be attached to something by a hook? < 1276994349 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go. An eyehole. < 1276994351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Eyehole. < 1276994361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: to fix |||, you could intersperse elements from x and y < 1276994376 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x0,y0,x1,y1,x2,y2] < 1276994377 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah, but I'm too lazy. < 1276994381 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: JUST NAME MY DISTRO :> < 1276994382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1276994386 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. It wouldn't be too much to do. < 1276994395 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: your distro is named Eyehole. < 1276994515 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1276994521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just name the directory transom for now. < 1276994528 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1276994531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=26388#a26389 < 1276994581 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Now fix the infinite-set-of-strings, string-that-doesn't-match problem. < 1276994584 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck, sucker. < 1276994617 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. Perhaps this representation is flawed? :D < 1276994622 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276994638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :float /* we won't stay afloat for very long */ < 1276994638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int argc, char **argv) < 1276994643 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the Mastodon init program, halt.c < 1276994665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: you could represent it as a theoretical set of all strings that match. Define the sets with predicate functions. < 1276994666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276994669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then union, intersect, etc < 1276994684 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Violating the standard is a great idea as long as it's amusing! < 1276994725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: Why are rc.d and init.d in /etc? < 1276994729 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're executable system code! < 1276994731 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that set thing conflict with Control.Arow? < 1276994736 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Arrow* < 1276994745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what DOES .d stand for, anyway? < 1276994751 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :micahjohnston: Yes; but who really cares? < 1276994792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is deeply concerned about the Haskell's worldwide namespace. < 1276994798 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you know what happens if init(8) exits? < 1276994799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-the < 1276994800 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always import qualified < 1276994805 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does that work on infixes? < 1276994829 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Arrow.(&&&) < 1276994830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1276994832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Kernel panic. < 1276994843 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: import as A < 1276994845 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x A.&&& y < 1276994846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :micahjohnston: yes. < 1276994852 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Map.! is common for instance < 1276994854 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276994862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know you could do it that way. < 1276994865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it appropriate to cause a kernel panic if, say, /etc/init.d/start is not there or not executable? < 1276994866 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1276994867 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1276994878 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, I might try and start /bin/sh first, for system recovery. < 1276994885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: This is about on par with not having init. < 1276994900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only two sane responses *are* trying /bin/sh and causing a kernel panic. < 1276994904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Right. :P < 1276994950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, again, what the hell does the .d stand for? < 1276994965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Directory. < 1276994969 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh. < 1276994975 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why do we need the fact that it's a directory in the name? < 1276994977 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid. < 1276995006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's normally only used for when you've decided to split a single configuration file into a set of them in a directory. < 1276995010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also, really dumb question time: how does init tell the kernel to shutdown, instead of panicing? < 1276995022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, env.d, init.d, rc.d, conf.d, etc. < 1276995026 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So it would be perfectly reasonable to have /etc/init/ if my init was wildly incompatible with everything else? < 1276995045 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I might just have /etc/init.{start,stop}; after all, they're the only files init(8) will use. < 1276995057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly. init.d isn't even necessarily going to exist on systems actually using init(8), after all. < 1276995074 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you recomment /etc/init.{start,stop} or /etc/init/{start,stop}? I guess the latter; more organised. < 1276995080 0 :micahjohnston!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276995085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't care much either way. < 1276995096 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to figure out how to tell Linux to go all sleepy. < 1276995102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... Yeah. The only thing guaranteed on an init(8) system is the existence of /etc/inittab. < 1276995116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is configuration. < 1276995124 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hell, no /etc/inittab here. < 1276995132 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should call it something other than init(8). < 1276995138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1276995150 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But BSD and sysv init both call themselves init! < 1276995161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are both the same basic program. < 1276995168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They differ in /etc/inittab configuration. < 1276995177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1276995179 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...bah < 1276995179 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1276995195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minit, maybe, for the horrible pun. < 1276995205 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, so, I assume there's some system call to halt or reboot the system... < 1276995221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1276995226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD init is, in fact, different. < 1276995230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have inittab either. < 1276995231 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that too :P < 1276995235 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut? < 1276995237 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD init so does have inittab. < 1276995244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Oh, yeah. < 1276995248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have *run levels*. < 1276995259 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1276995264 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BSD init runs the initialization shell script located in '/etc/rc', then launches getty on text-based terminals or a windowing system such as X on graphical terminals. There are no runlevels; the 'rc' file determines how init is to be run." < 1276995268 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, how does it handle shutting down services? < 1276995269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just tends to go run /etc/rc and then some gettys. < 1276995273 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does shutdown do that? < 1276995280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init does that. < 1276995286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shell script does it run? < 1276995291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shutdown just sends a signal to init. < 1276995302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, if I have /etc/init/{start,stop}, where do the various services go? < 1276995312 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning on having /etc/init.{start,stop}, then /etc/init.d/*.{start,stop}. < 1276995320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. I'm not sure about BSD init. SysV has a shutdown runlevel. < 1276995332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a reboot runlevel... < 1276995339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile... I can't seem to find the linux system call that shuts down... < 1276995387 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, halts. < 1276995511 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess if I'm writing init, I should write login too, huh. < 1276995531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it usually handled by init? < 1276995565 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but I'm writing init. < 1276995597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Login is not at all handled by init. < 1276995605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it's exit code < 1276995618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor is terminal management. < 1276995644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Init calls getty on the terminals with an option telling getty to run /bin/login. < 1276995647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init shuts everything down, then returns a status code telling the kernel what to do < 1276995677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally *all* init needs to do is be able to spawn processes and stop processes for shutdown. < 1276995704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (dosync) { < 1276995704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sync(); < 1276995704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep(1); < 1276995704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sync(); < 1276995704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep(1); < 1276995705 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sync(); < 1276995706 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: There is system call (IIRC, sys_reboot) that does reboot/shutdown/poweroff... It has two magic values it requires. < 1276995706 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep(1); < 1276995708 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1276995710 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH SYNCING. < 1276995724 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so coppro says the kernel responds to init's return value; pikhq says it just panics if you do that; and Ilari says there is a system call to do it. < 1276995745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* turn off special C-A-D handling */ < 1276995745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reboot(0xfee1dead, 672274793, 0xCDEF0123); < 1276995745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* try to kill all 'dem nasty processes off */ < 1276995745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(-1, SIGTSTP); < 1276995745 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(-1, SIGSTOP); < 1276995746 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(0, SIGSTOP); < 1276995748 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha what. < 1276995761 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1276995762 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reboot - reboot or enable/disable Ctrl-Alt-Del < 1276995764 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a nice system call. < 1276995767 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1276995780 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Computer Forensics classes in the Criminal Justice major < 1276995820 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure that exit(0) doesn't halt the ysstem in Linux? < 1276995837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If PID1 exits, the system will crash. < 1276995865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But init is PID1. < 1276995868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1276995877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If PID1 exits, the system will crash. < 1276995886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 1 is an instant kernel panic on Linux. < 1276995892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can you crash it from inside init then?? < 1276995895 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill YOURSELF? < 1276995932 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. PID1 is immune from SIGKILL (at least in new enough kernels). < 1276995953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does init induce a kernel panic, then? < 1276995960 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting is exit(0), rebooting is using the reboot system call. < 1276995967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1276995970 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit(0) panics too. < 1276996014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This system call will fail (with EINVAL) unless magic equals < 1276996015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 (that is, 0xfee1dead) and magic2 equals < 1276996015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2 (that is, 672274793). However, since 2.1.17 also < 1276996015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2A (that is, 85072278) and since 2.1.97 also < 1276996015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2B (that is, 369367448) and since 2.5.71 also < 1276996015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2C (that is, 537993216) are permitted as value for < 1276996017 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : magic2. (The hexadecimal values of these constants are meaningful.) < 1276996019 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The cmd argument can have the following values: < 1276996031 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHY DO THESE ARGUMENTS EXIST < 1276996034 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit panics??? < 1276996065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE LINUX < 1276996071 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID1 is also immune to ptrace and all non-hardware signals that would cause immediate process end (maybe even to all non-hardware signals that don't have handlers). < 1276996079 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really taken the time to attempt to learn anything about the linux kernel. < 1276996083 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a monster. < 1276996084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: sudo kill -9 1 < 1276996085 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you're making random system calls, perhaps? :P < 1276996086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it. < 1276996092 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have. < 1276996097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_CMD_HALT < 1276996097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (RB_HALT_SYSTEM, 0xcdef0123; since 1.1.76). The message "System < 1276996097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : halted." is printed, and the system is halted. Control is given < 1276996097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to the ROM monitor, if there is one. If not preceded by a < 1276996097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sync(2), data will be lost. < 1276996098 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTunes is also immune to ptrace! < 1276996099 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1276996165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh; RESTART is not REBOOT. < 1276996170 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does one induce a reBOOT? < 1276996191 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: That system call has reboot, halt and poweroff. < 1276996202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_CMD_RESTART < 1276996203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (RB_AUTOBOOT, 0x1234567). The message "Restarting system." is < 1276996203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printed, and a default restart is performed immediately. If not < 1276996203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : preceded by a sync(2), data will be lost. < 1276996205 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting; not reooting. < 1276996211 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rebooting < 1276996216 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It is reboot. < 1276996224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LINUX_REBOOT_CMD_RESTART2 < 1276996224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0xa1b2c3d4; since 2.1.30). The message "Restarting system with < 1276996224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : command '%s'" is printed, and a restart (using the command < 1276996224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : string given in arg) is performed immediately. If not preceded < 1276996224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : by a sync(2), data will be lost. < 1276996228 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it restart with a command, then? < 1276996264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, restarting with command is not supported on x86/x64 on stock kernels (or at least wasn't supported). < 1276996281 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does syncing multiple times help anything? < 1276996354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1276996397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've got all other processes stopped (as you should when shutting down), sync(2) will flush the entirety of the write buffers to disk, and then nothing is getting added. < 1276996398 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void rampage(void) < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(-1, SIGTERM); < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep(MERCY_TIME); < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(-1, SIGKILL); < 1276996431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill(0, SIGKILL); < 1276996433 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1276996435 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA! < 1276996440 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-52-39.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276996590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so Map and Set in Haskell are implemented with binary trees? < 1276996597 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1276996621 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... stay_calm() doesn't really do that. freakout(), perhaps. < 1276996621 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I've never considered how I would implement such a thing. I always go with the hash table implementation for such things. < 1276996643 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making one of my functions become execl_or_freak. < 1276996652 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A purely functional hash table. What a delightfully ridiculous idea. < 1276996673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. It allocates all of that memory so it can be freed and allocated again. < 1276996776 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: hmmm, I can see sets, but how would you do maps that way? < 1276996822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easily. :P < 1276996852 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: init doesn't need to getty to start a shell, right? < 1276996856 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it already has a tty. < 1276996937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init does not have a tty. < 1276996940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has /dev/console. < 1276996944 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, true. < 1276996953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, you can start a shell from this. < 1276996953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can printf to it and so can /bin/sh, so nyah. :P < 1276996966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If there's no /bin/sh, should I prompt for a command? ...Nah. If there's no /bin/sh you're fucked. < 1276996975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's no /bin/sh you're fucked. < 1276996979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it doesn't matter if it's a login shell, does it :P < 1276996987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moot point. < 1276997009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (execl("/bin/sh", NULL) == -1) { < 1276997009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perror("/bin/sh"); < 1276997009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("\nI am so, so sorry.\n"); < 1276997009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit(1); < 1276997009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1276997021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1276997297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That message is too polite. < 1276997306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fprintf(stderr, "\nHa, you are SO fucked.\n"); < 1276997379 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why they didn't just make map and fmap the same function. < 1276997502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Prelude is a bit... Poorly thought out in places. < 1276997507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one of those places. < 1276997512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1011921.txt?key=peblziys9iykh1o5icpw < 1276997521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a program that I have neither proven correct nor even tested. < 1276997528 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it even compiles. But it is a start. < 1276997545 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah but I wished them good luck before! < 1276997549 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what happens if you exit the shell... < 1276997553 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll start it again in a loop. < 1276997584 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... is there a function somewhere in Haskell: < 1276997594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipAround :: Either a b -> Either b a < 1276997612 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flabbergasting; it compiles. < 1276997627 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, close enough. < 1276997658 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I neglected to specify argv[0]. < 1276997658 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-214.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276997676 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you think of this structure: < 1276997684 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.{start,stop} which call upon /etc/init.d/*.{start,stop}? < 1276997696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: flipAround (Either a b) = Either b a < 1276997699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does now. < 1276997710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Seems reasonable. < 1276997768 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha, not quite. But yeah, it is trivial. < 1276997784 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering because the semantics of fmap only applies f to Right values < 1276997799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I figured a function to swap left and right would be handy. < 1276997812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for... who knows. < 1276997815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaddya mean, "not quite"? That *is the full function*. < 1276997828 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either isn't a constructor for Either < 1276997833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1276997835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276997837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1276997853 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be similar to that. < 1276997857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just match on left/right < 1276997860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipAround (Left x) = Right x;flipAround (Right x) = Left x < 1276997924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is so terse. The same code, complete with generics, in Java would be immense. < 1276997948 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2 = 672274793 = 0x28121969 = 28/12/1969 = Linus' birthdate < 1276997984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, those are all dates. < 1276998000 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an intentional easter egg. < 1276998007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*. < 1276998016 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CMD_HALT 0xcdef0123 < 1276998016 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CMD_REBOOT 0x1234567 < 1276998021 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whereas these, on the other hand, are just ridiculous. < 1276998049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2A,B,C are probably his children? < 1276998082 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I guess so. < 1276998085 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember trying to explain Either to a friend of mine who has only ever touched C++ < 1276998088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* Under glibc some of the constants involved have gotten < 1276998088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : symbolic names RB_*, and the library call is a 1-argument < 1276998088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wrapper around the 3-argument system call: */ < 1276998091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, has 3 daughters. < 1276998095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would make sense. < 1276998097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, time to figure out how to get the system call. < 1276998103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, replace "Either" in that sentence with "anything in Haskell" < 1276998106 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Must! Eliminate! glibc! Dependencies!) < 1276998135 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your brain < 1276998140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Just about everything is more terse, yes. < 1276998141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is your brain on glibc < 1276998152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wait, you can just write the comment and that's code? Whoa." < 1276998182 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wait, you can? < 1276998195 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you referring to. < 1276998207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell code sometimes looks like the comments for more complicated code. < 1276998217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, that flipAround function. < 1276998221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's neat when people respond to an "Is that really true?" question with the same question. < 1276998243 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah. gotcha < 1276998269 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1276998290 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping init]$ gcc -Wall -Wextra -Os init.c -o init < 1276998291 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hells yeah. < 1276998297 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...running this as root would be a bad idea, yeah? < 1276998299 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are some languages with interesting pattern matching semantics? I am looking to study pattern matching in existing languages so that I possibly develop the idea further, or at least find a preferred approach. < 1276998317 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: nah, should be fine. Give it a whirl. < 1276998324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just code. < 1276998328 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can it do? < 1276998337 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Code that can reboot the system. < 1276998345 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And kill every process in the ... process. < 1276998351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. tragic. < 1276998358 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine. < 1276998361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be like a Windows machine. < 1276998388 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping init]$ wc -c init < 1276998389 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6064 init < 1276998390 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Post-strip.) < 1276998392 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad, for gcc. < 1276998401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glibc < 1276998402 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, a dynamically linked init is the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard. < 1276998410 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/init: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped < 1276998411 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gawp* < 1276998413 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking... < 1276998425 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping init]$ wc -c init < 1276998426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :599200 init < 1276998426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1276998436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, nice knowing you guys < 1276998443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man you need to tell that init to shut up < 1276998445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping init]$ sudo ./init < 1276998445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1276998445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.start: No such file or directory < 1276998445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.start exited with status code 1 < 1276998445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something terribly bad has happened. I'm going to try and start an < 1276998446 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emergency recovery shell... good luck. < 1276998448 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[root@ping init]# < 1276998452 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have created the world's first userspace init. < 1276998476 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ... a great idea? < 1276998505 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD EVERYTHING IS BROKEN < 1276998508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how you could create pattern matching constructs that aren't strictly data constructors < 1276998562 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just forkbombedmyelf < 1276998573 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALP11 < 1276998580 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick < 1276998583 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt+F4 < 1276998584 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will fix it. < 1276998719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1276998728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276998765 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-24-7.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276998779 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need a less computer-saavy audience for my trick... especially an audience that isn't doing crazy things with their machine and thus doesn't have alt+f4 < 1276998789 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook! < 1276998796 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dude I found the dislike button..." < 1276998840 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.127.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276998841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init.c:18:1: warning: ‘noreturn’ function does return < 1276998844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No... it really doesn't < 1276998849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (execl("/bin/sh", "sh", NULL) == -1) { < 1276998849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perror("/bin/sh"); < 1276998849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("\nI am so, so sorry.\n"); < 1276998849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit(1); < 1276998849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1276998850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1276998853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That never terminates. Ever. < 1276998858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, never returns, rather. < 1276998887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: GCC is really really retarded about its treatment of noreturn. < 1276998913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only did it to stop it whining about another function :-) < 1276998916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int cmd; < 1276998917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (signal) { < 1276998917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case SIG_SHUTDOWN: cmd = CMD_POWER_OFF; break; < 1276998917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case SIG_REBOOT: cmd = CMD_RESTART; break; < 1276998917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : default: printf("Bad signal passed to shutdown() -- how?!\n"); freak_out(); < 1276998917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1276998919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to not realise that you are saying "NO THIS DOESN'T RETURN. AT ALL. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR FLOW ANALYSIS SAYS." < 1276998919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complained about unset cmd. < 1276998936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a line of 81 characters. *rebel* < 1276998967 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I am *so* going to go to Finland just so I can have a surname of "Turrila". < 1276998990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init.c:49:2: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘kill’ < 1276999001 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Going to a country does not automatically change your surname. < 1276999005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No... you see... "-std=c89" does not mean "Pretend I'm not on Linux". < 1276999012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck on a diiiick, gcc. < 1276999013 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I can change my surname after going to a country. < 1276999020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it also provides a wonderful excuse for doing so. < 1276999022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You could change it in your country too. < 1276999065 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but... nobody in my country would understand what "Turrila" means. :P < 1276999133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pray tell, is there a gcc flag meaning "No GNU extensions, but also, turns out I /am/ on Linux actually"? < 1276999137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Plof! < 1276999151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1276999168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why does -std=c89 make it pretend your not on linux? < 1276999177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *you're; and who knows. < 1276999184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out kill and sync aren't in the C89 standard. Astonishing. < 1276999186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno. < 1276999187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean in what way < 1276999190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1276999196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what way does it make it pretend you're not on Linux? < 1276999199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what if the if condition is false? it will fall off < 1276999227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then execl succeeded < 1276999232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you not aware of the function of execl? < 1276999232 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh < 1276999238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276999238 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do all my system programming in Haskell. < 1276999240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you're not, note that it replaces the current process with an entirely new one. < 1276999250 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive pointer arithmetic ftw < 1276999253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, there is very little chance of a function that successfully calls execl returning :P < 1276999260 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276999295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1276999326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is freak_out the function in question? < 1276999343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And is it marked __attribute__((noreturn)) ? < 1276999348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1276999354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then GCC sucks :P < 1276999363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1011940.txt?key=mhlrdd6el82e0co3qr7jbg < 1276999366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur. < 1276999416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Incidentally, I'm in the midst of integrating a new GC into Plof :P < 1276999420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a PITA. < 1276999423 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it desperately needs it. < 1276999433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good idea for init to avoid libc and use syscalls as much as possible, methinks... < 1276999447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to explicitly override a libc function with a syscall < 1276999501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's return gone from PSL? < 1276999508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has the thin/thick bullcrap been resolved yet? < 1276999540 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1276999547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was resolved between version 2 and 3. < 1276999549 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like ... years ago? < 1276999549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.10 + "Files supported: %s\n" < 1276999550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.11 + "for i in %s; do ./gen $i > $i; done\n", supported, supported); < 1276999551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1276999556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How was it resolved again? XD < 1276999579 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, it's all different now. There are only functions. < 1276999602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much that it was resolved as that the entire question was sidestepped. < 1276999673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, and that snippet of bash code is because I'm too lazy to retype it every (rare) time that I need to update those generated files :P < 1276999774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, _syscallN(...) isn't expanding. < 1276999783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not. < 1276999793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's lost its appetite. < 1276999816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, because the include files no longer actually define it. < 1276999818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovely. < 1276999837 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably need to #define _SOMETHING_SOURCE for it to include it. < 1276999838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Plof now is partially lazy evaluating. < 1276999848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus entirely sidestepping thick/thin. < 1276999870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, quite literally: < 1276999871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linux.die.net/include/linux/unistd.h < 1276999872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linux.die.net/include/asm/unistd.h < 1276999873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been the semantics for Plof 3... Oh, since Plof 3 had a user language. < 1276999890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO < 1276999890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The use of these macros is Linux-specific, and deprecated. < 1276999891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck my duck. < 1276999900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Starting around kernel 2.6.18, the _syscall macros were removed from < 1276999900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : header files supplied to user space. Use syscall(2) instead. (Some < 1276999900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : architectures, notably ia64, never provided the _syscall macros; on < 1276999900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : those architectures, syscall(2) was always required.) < 1276999903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck my duuuuck. < 1276999917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wow ... that actually sucks a surprising amount. < 1276999929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm/unistd.h should define the system call numbers. You'll need to manually implement the system call wrappers. < 1276999942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is wrong with a good ol' process that wants to be honest and use syscalls not shitty libc? < 1276999949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to depend on glibc, really? If they have a choice? < 1276999954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276999985 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-24-7.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277000018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hey, /depends/ on who you're talking about. ahahahaha. < 1277000019 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bad. < 1277000031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plz die <3 < 1277000047 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've been kill()ing too much < 1277000080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to go buy a cake. < 1277000081 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then eat it. < 1277000089 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to imagine that I'm destroying you. < 1277000368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, he's a prophet about cakes. < 1277000384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ping init]$ sudo ./init < 1277000384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.start: No such file or directory < 1277000384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.start exited with status code 1 < 1277000384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something terribly bad has happened. I'm going to try and start an < 1277000384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emergency recovery shell... good luck. < 1277000385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[root@ping init]# < 1277000387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still works! :P < 1277000404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :75-line init. Not bad if I do say so myself. < 1277000424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to create wildly incompatible shutdown(8) and reboot(8)s. < 1277000428 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc -c init < 1277000434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6024. < 1277000439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After strip -s. < 1277000441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot bad. < 1277000444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamically linked, but then so is /sbin/init. < 1277000453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to link it statically with uclibc or newlib in the actual distro. < 1277000555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN, make it run on Microsoft Xenix. < 1277000781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Declaring main as noreturn because it shuts down the system. < 1277000786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible idea or ludicrous idea? < 1277000826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh; I'm about to pull a GNU echo. < 1277000913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is that you can't declare main. < 1277000939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can < 1277000950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you ought to be able to if the compiler's doing its job < 1277000959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in hosted implementations? < 1277001003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How would you suggest fooling GCC into thinking a noreturn function really does return when it does but gcc can't be convinced of this fact, with no effect on the generated code? < 1277001083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The whole point of noreturn is to effect the generated code... < 1277001083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33 var Bool = Object : [ < 1277001083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34 ifTrue = (x) { this } < 1277001084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 ifFalse = (x) { this } < 1277001084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 ] < 1277001089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool is a boolean that is neither true nor false. < 1277001092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it not emit code for exiting the function. < 1277001096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is one of the issues of prototypical languages.) < 1277001099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1277001104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gcc is warning that it does return. < 1277001109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I make it STFU? < 1277001118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it actually thinks it does not return. < 1277001119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The answer to that is BEAT GCC DEVS < 1277001122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really does not return < 1277001130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want to disable the warning in case it's still generating exit code. < 1277001140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the whole *point* of such an attribute is to assure GCC that it doesn't return. < 1277001141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an unreachable for (;;), but that would be put in the generated code! < 1277001145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still generated the exit code. < 1277001201 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hack the machine code... psh, you guys are just making it complicated with all of these abstractions. < 1277001204 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277001258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1277001259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1277001259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1277001259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "init.h" < 1277001259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) < 1277001259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1277001261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (kill(1, SIG_SHUTDOWN) == -1) { < 1277001263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perror("kill"); < 1277001265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 1; < 1277001267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1277001269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("Shutting down...\n"); < 1277001271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1277001273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1277001275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ 582 KiB statically linked to glibc. < 1277001292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one thought presents itself: WHY GOD WHY. < 1277001407 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's due to linking with glibc < 1277001412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1277001419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does Linux require PAM? < 1277001423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277001426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1277001432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ssh? < 1277001437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277001448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can replace it with something sane such as a login(1) that does the ludicrously insane idea of, say, reading /etc/shadow and checking the password. < 1277001457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh golly I am subverting modern technology < 1277001469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAM is nothing more than an additional feature to allow further flexibility for login stuff. < 1277001477 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that is exactly what you had before pam got enough traction < 1277001478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in fact, it's only in libc. < 1277001486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And waste stuff. < 1277001498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every program that "uses" PAM is actually just using the libc login functions. < 1277001503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah; an awful lot of linux technology is just... pointless < 1277001505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as HAL. < 1277001524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah. PAM is 100% optional. < 1277001537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When init(8) finds that a process has exited, it locates its utmp entry < 1277001537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : by ut_pid, sets ut_type to DEAD_PROCESS, and clears ut_user, ut_host < 1277001537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and ut_time with null bytes. < 1277001538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1277001539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Gentoo gives you the option of just turning it off. < 1277001540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that necessary? < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q8: Root cannot do this without typing the user's password! Can I fix this? < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Historically, root could do a number of things on behalf of a user without < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having to bother with typing the user's password. Applications like < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'passwd', 'su' and 'chfn' would skip the "Enter user's password: " prompt < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such cases. < 1277001560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAM places this behavior at the discretion of the System Administrator. < 1277001564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, because root can't already do everything. < 1277001739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone brave and daring enough to try alise init v1? < 1277001802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making root enter other users' passwords is dumb < 1277001810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1277001810 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it just encourages root changing them instead < 1277001837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 36976 May 1 2009 /sbin/init < 1277001842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can anyone else execute init?! < 1277001850 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1277001859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's not pid 1, it acts as telinit. < 1277001862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess nobody's ever heard of mode 744 < 1277001868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and? < 1277001870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need to be root. < 1277001878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1277002072 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277002114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: coppro: Gregor: I present alise init v1: http://filebin.ca/jxyhj/init.tar.gz < 1277002119 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277002119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Not actually tested. Hey, it compiles. < 1277002131 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1277002133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo dawg we herd u liek root < 1277002135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's so simple there's no reason why it shouldn't work... plus it fails as it should in user mode. < 1277002163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, I should probably adjust MERCY_TIME. 3 seconds isn't enough for the whole system to close down. < 1277002184 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we put root at your root so you can be root while you root < 1277002255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you guys seen the new POSIX standard? < 1277002261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Thankfully. < 1277002264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a catastrophic_root_backdoor syscall < 1277002332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as a sysadmin, how long do you like your inits to wait for the regular kills to go through before SIGKILLing EVERYTHING? < 1277002444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few seconds, really. Most things should have been shut down by the shutdown scripts already. < 1277002451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1277002454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 seconds it is, then. < 1277002464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the few things that wouldn't *should* shut down after SIGTERM right away. < 1277002466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I take it you are currently migrating your system to alise init. < 1277002485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned, a program that doesn't respond to SIGTERM quickly is *broken*. < 1277002632 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGNOREALLYGOAWAY < 1277002677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's SIGKILL. < 1277002714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGCHAINSAW: removes the process from the process table immediately, so it will not be switched to again, and marks the memory that the code took up as free. < 1277002725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGKILL, at least, switches back to the process to let it commit suicide. < 1277002726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha! < 1277002756 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1277002780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vote goes for SIGCHAINSAWMASSACRE < 1277002841 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer the Erlang terminology on this one: SIGBRUTALKILL < 1277002852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SIGCHAINSAW: removes the process from the process table immediately, so it will not be switched to again, and marks the memory that the code took up as free. < 1277002858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dare anyone to find a more final method of killing a process. < 1277002869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just... it's better called SIGVAPORISE. < 1277002876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never TOUCHES the process. The process just stops existing. < 1277002879 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1277002907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a hammer. < 1277002998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you have all studied, with intense interest, the code to alise init v1. < 1277003001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? Didn't think so. :P < 1277003089 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277003103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of portal time code! < 1277003107 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad is insisting that the way to fix my sleep issues is to use an alarm clock < 1277003121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't help the going to bed bit. < 1277003162 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find taking a monster gravity bong hit put me to bed after about 2 hours... < 1277003163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just me. < 1277003190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe drugs are the answer. < 1277003271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277003280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually fixed most of my sleeping problems now. I got some sleeping pill samples from my doctor and it only took a few before I was a on somewhat regular rhythm. < 1277003291 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was bad off from normal schedules. Going to bed at 10 am and stuff. < 1277003297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Your dad has been wrong about a great many things before, often extremely so. < 1277003313 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He _is_ a doctor < 1277003354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No comment. < 1277003359 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1277003363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does believe that my problem is that I'm sleeping at the wrong time and too much, rather than that I haven't been sleeping enough < 1277003374 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not exactly aware of the nights I've stayed up on the computer < 1277003395 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth would you stay on your computer? Don't you have a desk? < 1277003405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just put it this way... some people just can't maintain a normal sleep pattern without melatonin or similar. < 1277003408 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in my room, and I use a laptop < 1277003409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION apologizes, for he is in a word-twisting mood. < 1277003411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are clearly one of these people. < 1277003418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try valiantly to adjust to a normal sleep schedule... < 1277003421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just take melatonin and be done with it. < 1277003425 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have been able to force myself to put the computer away < 1277003434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Now do that every day. No slip ups. < 1277003439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun. < 1277003450 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's not arguing against melatonin. He's arguing for waking me up 7 hours after I go to sleep < 1277003466 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read in many trustworthy magazines that cocaine is very good for well-rested sleep. < 1277003482 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can slip up with melatonin fairly easily, by delaying when I take it < 1277003546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And he's not arguing against melatonin. He's arguing for waking me up 7 hours after I go to sleep < 1277003557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teenagers and slightly-after-teenagers need over 8 hours of sleep. < 1277003564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So right off the bat, he is wrong. < 1277003571 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, find a credible source that I can show him < 1277003583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Why? Just don't take his advice. < 1277003598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: wrt delaying melatonin -- have you observed this? Almost everyone is able to make good long-term decisions about when to sleep, just not in the short term. < 1277003600 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm fully capable of avoiding him waking me up in the mornings. < 1277003601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why melatonin is useful. < 1277003617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, I'm assuming he won't be an asshole and keep doing it if you request he stops. < 1277003621 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not particuarly willing to take melatonin before I'm ready to be asleep < 1277003634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It takes half an hour to kick in. < 1277003641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an hour? < 1277003647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I forget exactly. < 1277003647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aAnd 7 hours of sleep is actually too little for a *lot* of the population. < 1277003662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point is that you make a reasoned decision about when to go to sleep, then enact it before the in-the-moment irrationality can kick in. < 1277003673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you WILL fall asleep in an hour. Problem solved. < 1277003676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours for me, for instance, is the *minimum* for actually being conscious for the remainder of the day. < 1277003683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following day, that is. < 1277003695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than that, and the best I can do is half-zombie after a few hours. < 1277003759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, using alise init yet? :-P < 1277003809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: we should have alise init up on every system on the grid by tomorrow < 1277003816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1277003818 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, by the way, I'm CEO of Google. < 1277003876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I haven't tested this... < 1277003881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh what the hell, pay me for 24/7 support. < 1277003923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277003934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggier software = more money from support < 1277003936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant. < 1277004027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's Plof NFI? < 1277004030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Fucking Idea? < 1277004044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Native Function Interface < 1277004069 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nautical Fishkeepers Initiative < 1277004083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nachos Fornicate Intelligently < 1277004150 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. CNFI allows Plof to call C functions. < 1277004168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there were a Java implementation of Plof, it would have a JNFI. And a JavaScript implementation would have a JSNFI. < 1277004183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calcium Nachos Fornicate Intelligently < 1277004198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jagged Narcotics Fashionably Inebriate < 1277004216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jolly Sapphire Naturally Fuels Irreligion < 1277004227 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...rofl. < 1277004233 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally. < 1277004304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SUPPLY MORE ACRONYMS < 1277004320 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC < 1277004326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSL is the bytecode. PRP is the parsing/compiling framework. PUL is the user language. < 1277004357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and we use PCRE. < 1277004408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of our acronyms are standardized under the AANI < 1277004433 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in version 1 < 1277004437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in version 2 we use ANSI < 1277004451 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acronym naming and standardization interface < 1277004453 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277004470 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "interface" < 1277004474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. < 1277004508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: they must be NFI acronyms. < 1277004522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, CNFI is the only implemented NFI. < 1277004523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for me 10 seems to be the optimal amt < 1277004527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up new NFIs. < 1277004548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to use your imagination, take any language or system you feel like, tack it on to "NFI", then make some retarded expansion of it. < 1277004553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should keep you entertained for hours. < 1277004560 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFRGG < 1277004563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep -> < 1277004568 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what it means anise < 1277004594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277004597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SfRoGG < 1277004617 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277004656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: PNFI (the P stands for Plof) < 1277004670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peeing Negros Fail Ignorantly < 1277004772 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1277004781 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277004783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cplof is boring < 1277004803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke. I certainly don't intend for it to be exciting. < 1277004918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNFI. < 1277004922 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a language with a compiler that can compile to all languages ever made. < 1277004924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof Native Function Interface. < 1277004927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1277004932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With apologies for flooding, as this paste only has the desired impact if I just paste it right in: < 1277004934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1277004934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# @(#) true.sh 1.1 86/12/18 < 1277004934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277004934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Copyright (C) The Santa Cruz Operation, 1985. < 1277004934 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# This Module contains Proprietary Information of < 1277004935 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# The Santa Cruz Operation, Microsoft Corporation < 1277004937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# and AT&T, and should be treated as Confidential. < 1277004939 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277004941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277004945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#*** true -- do nothing, successfully < 1277004947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1277004949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# true < 1277004951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit 0 < 1277004971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old. < 1277004979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFIDENTIAL < 1277004983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc sun or some at&t thing has an even longer copyright thing < 1277004995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh so /that's/ the copied linux code :P < 1277005001 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P < 1277005030 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little boxes on the hillside. Little boxes made of ticky tacky.. < 1277005063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also some enums. < 1277005093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that the Santa Cruz Operation weren't evil.) < 1277005119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor were Caldera, who bought the Santa Cruz Operation; but when Caldera-who-bought-the-Santa-Cruz-Operation changed their name to The SCO Group and got a new SCO, they became evil.) < 1277005143 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Santa Cruz was some sound card company < 1277005144 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is getting a new SCO like getting a new groove? < 1277005145 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277005252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1277005320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you have a uclibc or newlib toolchain? < 1277005322 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think Linux would need some signal like the SIGCHAINSAW or whatever described in the log for this channel, but that is long name, someone said SIGVAPORISE that is long, perhaps SIGVAP for short? (In addition, init is not immune) < 1277005348 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277005356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How on earth do you just REMOVE INIT from the process list and free its memory? < 1277005359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that even... < 1277005378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ATM, I don't have a toolchain. < 1277005391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...at all? < 1277005398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a build one. < 1277005463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277005465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1277005547 0 :leBMD!~chatzilla@174-23-11-141.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277005562 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallo, esolangers < 1277005608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing the init process might mess up everything < 1277005613 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a way to download a prebuilt one? < 1277005637 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this way it would allow removing init anyways using a signal for destroy everything like that < 1277005860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If init were to actually return the kernel would panic. < 1277005866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it were simply never switched to... < 1277005872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nothing would happen right? < 1277005877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life would go on unless you tried to use init's functionality < 1277006001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: alise init v1 has a serious bug, it exits almost immediately after running /etc/init.start >_> < 1277006006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277006043 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Causing a panic? < 1277006048 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION panics at the kernel panic < 1277006200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rargh 3 fiery bulblaxes :( < 1277006390 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I signed up for one of those "Give us your email address and we'll give you the secrets of the universe" things < 1277006417 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ the content [to an approximation] is all available on the blog, not sure < 1277006432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1277006468 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see what this nutjob's saying < 1277006505 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He talks about "hyperevolution" and religion in science < 1277006533 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first email is about how since "DNA is a language", and "all languages are created by minds", that proves God exists < 1277006540 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/prove-god-exists/ < 1277006624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you used a + email. < 1277006626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that guy. < 1277006644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a + email? < 1277006664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo+x@gmail.com ==> foo@gmail.com, but To: foo+x@gmail.com < 1277006677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., useful for identifying and eliminating spam from shady sources by giving them a you+spammers@gmail.com address. < 1277006704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a separate gmail account < 1277006714 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277006725 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's theoretically possible that spammers have caught on to that trick < 1277006730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to violate the ToS < 1277006735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277006745 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277006746 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O? < 1277006748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my plan is to get a personal domain and just use prefixes < 1277006791 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done that for like 10 years < 1277006795 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forward *@domain < 1277006799 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign up with site.com@domain < 1277006800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: violate which ToS? < 1277006803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a gmail feature! < 1277006822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean two gmail accounts < 1277006825 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: H.P.Lovecraft or something, anyone? < 1277006827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, spammers haven't caught on to it, i can guarantee it < 1277006831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather they know about it < 1277006833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't give a shit < 1277006840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason "x AT y DOT z" works < 1277006847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of people who do that have good spam filters anyway. < 1277006867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the problem with you.tld is the main email < 1277006874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you@you.tld looks stupid, me@you.tld looks ugly, etc. < 1277006877 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely it takes two seconds to write something that strips the +whatever < 1277006904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: personal@you.tld < 1277006941 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the personal domain doesn't have to be your name/handle < 1277006968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: personal@? < 1277006973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you're the ceo of google < 1277006975 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 2 gmail accounts really against the ToS? < 1277007007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey if you get any news on that project let me know, my email is personal@drearlgreyphd.name." < 1277007035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best email address: n@ai < 1277007056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How's about pikhq@josiahworcester.name ? < 1277007057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277007074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: agreed < 1277007134 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much should I charge to tutor someone in C#? < 1277007140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you should not. < 1277007152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have to pay them < 1277007161 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's C#? < 1277007163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, because not many people are good tutors; secondly, because teaching someone C# borders on evil; thirdly, because you waste enough of your time already! < 1277007170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the first point is important. < 1277007177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can know something very well but be terrible at teaching it. < 1277007276 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how C# is worse than Java < 1277007282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not. < 1277007298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is kind of like saying you fail to see how being mugged is worse than being murdered. < 1277007307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you guys tomorrow. I do believe I may end up writing a login(8)... < 1277007314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and pikhq: it's your job to remind me to check out mingetty. < 1277007317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farewell. < 1277007320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277007545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277007730 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277007793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god "Prelude" is relaxing. < 1277007798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just. My god. < 1277007929 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I put a berakpoint on this code in am emulator and it's not breaking even though I know the code is excecuting < 1277007938 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakpoint* < 1277007999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And named in a uniquely-identifiable way, too. < 1277008085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, fine, I'll give you detail. < 1277008115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prelude", by Nobuo Uematsu for Final Fantasy. < 1277008159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, the arrangement for the 2006 "Voices" concert... < 1277008494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1277008519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm an Uematsu fan. :P < 1277008545 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you been to any of the distant worlds concerts? < 1277008549 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what they called it at least < 1277008554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't. < 1277008560 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had one here in seattle with the seattle symphony that i went to < 1277008560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I would love to. < 1277008561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun < 1277008572 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to be honest, they didn't play any songs i am familiar with anymore < 1277008577 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of newer stuff < 1277008600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "Newer stuff"? When did you last play Final Fantasy, pray tell? < 1277008603 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got to the end and they hadn't played one winged angel, i was a bit surprised < 1277008610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(latest game) < 1277008611 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they brought it out for an encore lol < 1277008618 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, last one i played through was 7 < 1277008619 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277008627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must play 10. < 1277008630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must must must. < 1277008632 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the songs i know well are from 6 and 7 < 1277008633 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 < 1277008666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is my favorite in the series. < 1277008690 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that again < 1277008700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one for the Playstation 2. < 1277008703 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, teh one with the spinoff with dressup girls < 1277008704 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1277008721 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't own any consoles really < 1277008733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may consider the spinoff in the same light as the Star Wars prequels and the Matrix sequels. < 1277008738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is: DON'T DO IT!) < 1277008767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFXII was enjoyable story-wise. But it hardly counts as a game. < 1277008817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. FF9 was fun... FF8 is much-liked by people other than I; I mostly remember it for the easiest way to beat it being a min-level run... < 1277008820 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i know, i just associated the two a little < 1277008825 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can remember a little about ff8 and 9 < 1277008838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFX was just plain awesome. < 1277008861 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bad history with rpgs lol < 1277008869 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played a bunch of them on emulators, but didn't finish any of them < 1277008885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you'll want to not finish FFX. < 1277008887 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be fair, part of the reason was that freaking silicon image sata bug that corrupted my data crashing the emulators) < 1277008904 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1277008909 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silicon integrated systems < 1277008911 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew it was SI something < 1277008912 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277008920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. [boss whose name would be a spoiler, but you will know who I'm talking about because he's a bitch] is, well. A complete bitch. < 1277008931 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277008937 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277008941 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kefka is my favorite baddie < 1277008941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both plot-wise and gameplay-wise. < 1277008966 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohay, the alignment of these statues keeps the world together you say? PUSH! < 1277008967 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277008987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He intends to kill everyone to save them from their suffering. < 1277008991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, really. < 1277009053 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart dude < 1277009054 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277009059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ohay, the alignment of these statues keeps the world together you say? PUSH! <-- I just got back from playing nwn. The word alignment confused me at first XD < 1277009070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Ballad of the Windfish... < 1277009078 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1277009079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, zelda? < 1277009101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember < 1277009114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, links awakening? < 1277009122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite partial to "To Zanarkand" (zanakaando ni te)... < 1277009131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?? < 1277009135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that < 1277009138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFX < 1277009142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main theme. < 1277009145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277009152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait which console is FFX for? < 1277009155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS2. < 1277009157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah < 1277009162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played it then < 1277009167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, too, should play it. < 1277009171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any emulator? < 1277009177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own a PS 2 < 1277009181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I know anyone who does < 1277009183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCSX2 can play it, but you need a really good computer. < 1277009189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, PS2s are $99 *new*. < 1277009202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so a sempron 3300+ with a geforce 7600 card won't work? < 1277009202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much cheaper used) < 1277009203 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice < 1277009209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't. < 1277009214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1277009214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is either that or a mobile core 2 duo with intel graphics < 1277009220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried on a system of similar specs. It got about 15 fps. < 1277009238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PS2 is a bitch to emulate. < 1277009250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1277009258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does it do JITing? < 1277009262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277009267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then I'm surprised < 1277009285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'll just play nwn instead < 1277009285 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about this one < 1277009286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/satellite/A500/A505-S6986 < 1277009287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a nice game < 1277009288 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277009308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, ? < 1277009313 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats wise < 1277009314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had like 10 different processors! < 1277009319 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :craziness < 1277009337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, how many MHz? < 1277009346 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i linked it? < 1277009358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, yes but it just says "Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T6600" < 1277009360 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i don't know lol < 1277009366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, and I have no clue what that is in MHz < 1277009374 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1277009384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I think it is slower than my thinkpad < 1277009384 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2 < 1277009385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee... The CPU, the two programmable vector units, the two audio processors, and the IO processor. < 1277009391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well yes slower than my thinkpad < 1277009405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has more ram though (except I expanded mine to the full 4 GB) < 1277009407 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dedicated graphics < 1277009426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, yep, but I bet my battery lasts longer < 1277009432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, also it has glossy screen I bet < 1277009434 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a netbook < 1277009442 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i realized i'm just not that mobile < 1277009442 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277009443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, there is NOTHING I hate as much as glossy monitors < 1277009451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just not usable indoors < 1277009456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fastest processor on here was 300 MHz, *but* that's just a lot of CPUs to emulate. < 1277009459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where I use my thinkpad most of the time < 1277009461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at university < 1277009463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, ^ < 1277009475 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, no kidding < 1277009477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the monitor isn't matte I'm not going to buy *ANYTHING* < 1277009485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so I assume it is multithreading? < 1277009489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277009490 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trubrite, that sounds glossy to me < 1277009496 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno though, it doesn't bother me < 1277009497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, horrible < 1277009500 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as much as the freaking keyboard < 1277009509 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h103.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277009510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how it is possible to actually *run* it at full speed on a modern computer. < 1277009515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, also it has hdmi eww < 1277009520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, rather than displayport or dvi < 1277009534 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not likely to use any of them < 1277009545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, oh and too large for me. I use 15" < 1277009549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah. The IO processor is a Playstation 1. < 1277009555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ??? < 1277009575 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why it's not your laptop < 1277009589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, another blocker: " No Bluetooth (No Antenna)" < 1277009590 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they kept the cpu from the ps1 as an ancillary processor in the ps2 < 1277009592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1277009593 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they could emulate < 1277009593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, to emulate a PS2 you must emulate a PS1. < 1277009601 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also don't need or want bluetooth < 1277009603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1277009612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, and no gbit ethernet < 1277009615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is another blocker for me < 1277009616 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that sucked < 1277009621 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realize it until it was too late < 1277009627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth 90W? < 1277009627 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once again, not likely to really need it < 1277009642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thinkpad is 65W < 1277009660 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i wanted 1) a toshiba laptop 2) something i could get a decent deal on and 3) something that could act as kind of a secondary portable desktop for me < 1277009665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well on battery with bluetooth and wlan off it uses around 8 W according to powertop < 1277009678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with wlan on about 14 W < 1277009692 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really sure what it consumes, i suppose i could check < 1277009697 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, also wanted discrete graphics < 1277009707 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying when games are like SORRY I DON'T LIKE YOUR ONBOARD SHIT < 1277009707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, 2.25 hours battery time sucks < 1277009727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I can get about 3.5 hours out of mine with wlan and bluetooth off and doing typing stuff < 1277009728 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i said before about not needing mobility? < 1277009744 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also iirc i can get a 6 cell for it and quite a bit more battery life than 2.25 < 1277009748 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really need to < 1277009750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, yeah, I need something mobile but more powerful than a netbook (I need to compile stuff sometimes) < 1277009768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, it says " Li-Ion (4000mAh, 6-Cell)" and " Up to 2.25 hours" < 1277009774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I presume that is for that one? < 1277009814 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i was thinking 12 cell? < 1277009816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know anymore < 1277009827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes more sense < 1277009832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stick out at the back though < 1277009833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1-eSATA/USB (2.0) combo port with Sleep and Charge, " < 1277009835 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets the job done for me, and i don't have a bunch of fucked up stuff like with other laptops i've encountered < 1277009844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, okay wth is a combined esata and usb port < 1277009848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible? < 1277009849 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they share the same socket < 1277009860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, the connectors are compatible ? < 1277009872 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they designed the socket so either will fit < 1277009876 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda interesting < 1277009876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277009879 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i have no esata devices < 1277009885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, a photo of the socket would be cool < 1277009886 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used it for usb before, no troubles < 1277009909 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dvhardware.net/news/msi_power_esata.jpg < 1277009953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, power cable free? is there some special variant that uses both esata and usb to take power from it? < 1277009960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while doing esata < 1277009966 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? i'm not sure, i just googled that < 1277009969 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks about like that < 1277009976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277009977 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it's functionally different or not < 1277009987 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what the power thing is about < 1277009995 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it can be said that i am inexperienced at choosing laptops < 1277009998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277010007 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i got one that serves my purposes and doesn't give me headaches < 1277010014 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's ok by me < 1277010014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headaches? < 1277010025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, if I wanted those specs I would go for a workstation btw < 1277010032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably run less hot < 1277010040 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overheating/crashing/rebooting like the gateway my brother had < 1277010046 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything like any of the hp laptops my dad has had < 1277010057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, homebuilt desktop I meant < 1277010058 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizarre bugs relating to driver shit they have on there, weird annoying behavior < 1277010061 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i have one < 1277010069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, linux? < 1277010070 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for one reason or another it's not convenient to use for games and the like < 1277010074 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows < 1277010077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ever had driver problems with windows < 1277010078 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a linuxfag ;P < 1277010091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like hp printers work way better under linux than windows in my experience < 1277010093 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i sure as hell ain't gonna switch my dad over < 1277010100 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every hp laptop he's had < 1277010103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially their multifunction printers/scanner/copier < 1277010109 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he always winds up asking me why some fucked up thing is happening < 1277010116 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it causes me headaches trying to figure it out < 1277010123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, oh converting dads, yeah lost cause < 1277010125 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toshiba has been a brand that i've used and liked < 1277010133 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has worked fine in my experience < 1277010136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, personally I like lenovo for laptops < 1277010140 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i went shopping for toshibas < 1277010148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, the wireless range is amazing in my laptop < 1277010152 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i chose discrete graphics, the selection was pretty limited < 1277010155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, macs seem to have much the same < 1277010158 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was also trying to keep it from being too expensive < 1277010161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it beats everything else than macs < 1277010164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the wireless range < 1277010173 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wound up going through their outlet page, i think i bought from there < 1277010179 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or a bing cashback buy it now from ebay < 1277010200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, macs and thinkpads have really really good built in wireless antennas < 1277010202 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one complaint i have so far is that the wireless seems to have some weird thing with my dad's lameass netgear router < 1277010203 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1277010208 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it sleeps while connected < 1277010209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than some external I would say < 1277010213 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't reconnect until i reboot the router < 1277010217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, how is the wireless range of your laptop? < 1277010220 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same problem doesn't happen with better routers < 1277010225 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor with other laptops at my dad's house < 1277010227 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dunno < 1277010240 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for range, also uncertain; i don't have to use it anywhere where that is a problem < 1277010244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277010257 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much like i said < 1277010276 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a portable pc i can take places and/or substitute for my desktop for certain tasks < 1277010281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277010288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, how heavy is it? Metric. < 1277010296 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty heavy < 1277010311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that page you linked says " Starting at 6.48 lbs." but 1) that might not match your 2) I have no idea what that is in metric < 1277010318 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i've been taking it over to my dad's on sundays (where we have dinner nights) and hooking it up to the widescreen downstairs to play games < 1277010324 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, me neither < 1277010329 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i'm an amerifag ;p < 1277010339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, but does it match your? < 1277010343 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 3 kg < 1277010350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be worse < 1277010363 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik there's nothing extra that'd make it heavier < 1277010367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277010375 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably battery < 1277010384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, can you replace cd drive with extra harddrive or extra battery on that? < 1277010387 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it runs mame better than my desktop lol < 1277010390 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use it for TGM practice < 1277010393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TGM? < 1277010397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris the grandmaster < 1277010400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1277010402 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, TGM2 and 3 < 1277010409 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TGM1 runs like shit in mame and i haven't gotten zinc yet < 1277010411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, another thing, no trackpoint? < 1277010417 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trackpoint? < 1277010418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess only thinkpads have that < 1277010419 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eraser mouse? < 1277010423 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like those things < 1277010431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, yep, a lot easier to use than touchpads IMO < 1277010440 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've gotten to where i like touchpads quite a bit, especially with the syntaptics drivers letting me do scrolling and the like < 1277010449 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a clitmouse in my last keyboard, i surgically removed it < 1277010453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, the new ones are a lot nicer than the old ones. better acceleration < 1277010454 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circumcised? ;) < 1277010469 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly i don't like them because they get in the way of my typing < 1277010471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, um you can just pull the top off iirc < 1277010472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277010476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can with mine < 1277010477 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really, but it's just a little "in the way" < 1277010481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to replace it with another < 1277010489 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i mean i unfastened it from the circuit board < 1277010494 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also replaced the keys that were notched < 1277010499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1277010501 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i could have normal keys and then rearrange the keycaps < 1277010509 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keycaps that were notched* < 1277010512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, you don't have a middle click button though? < 1277010516 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top right corner < 1277010521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves his touchpad having that < 1277010523 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what i've always used on touchpads < 1277010528 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm used to it by now < 1277010530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not the touchpad < 1277010533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trackpoint < 1277010539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the buttons for the touchpad are just two < 1277010546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while for the trackpoint they are tree < 1277010547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three* < 1277010548 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason they can't be three < 1277010553 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why they don't do that < 1277010563 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i only really use middle click for "open in new tab" < 1277010569 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a hotspot is ok < 1277010588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, google image search of my laptop: http://laptoping.com/wp-content/Lenovo_ThinkPad_R500.jpg < 1277010590 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris:_The_Grand_Master < 1277010593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly that < 1277010596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close < 1277010613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, and a very stylish design IMO :P < 1277010620 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that it didn't go all faddish with the chiclet keyboard < 1277010627 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like those things < 1277010635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, chiclet keyboard? < 1277010643 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keycaps that look like chiclet gum < 1277010647 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple popularized it < 1277010650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I use middle click for "paste selected text" < 1277010651 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are flat and squareish < 1277010653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I use linux < 1277010660 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277010682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, flat keys? well you won't have model m in a laptop! < 1277010689 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono < 1277010692 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see on that picture you linked < 1277010695 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how at the edges of the keys < 1277010698 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they slant down? < 1277010703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes of course < 1277010714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, very nice keyboard. zero flex < 1277010716 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.macnn.com/esta/content/0803/macbook-unboxkeyboard.jpg < 1277010725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, oh those < 1277010733 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to catch my fingers on the edge of that shit < 1277010734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well the key distance is all wrong on them < 1277010737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't type on those < 1277010747 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i don't know why they'd mess with the key distance < 1277010748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I just hit the wrong keys < 1277010758 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are just shaped different < 1277010761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I can type on full size only < 1277010768 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a number of laptops have aped that style < 1277010771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm using a nice old PS/2 keyboard < 1277010772 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't like it < 1277010780 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i have a unicomp < 1277010781 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a filco < 1277010781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the keys are worn out and lack all text now < 1277010788 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting used to the filco, or trying to < 1277010790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Apple's keys are slightly farther apart than on ThinPads < 1277010797 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nicer keyboard in many respects < 1277010803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, ah mine is a quite usable fujitsu siemens that came with an old computer I had < 1277010804 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i keep hitting the spacebar accidentally < 1277010810 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i get t hings like t his < 1277010821 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unicomp is a buckling spring, usb < 1277010822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mechanical buckling spring (would love that) but still rather nice < 1277010832 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know when i bought it that usb keyboard kinda sucks < 1277010840 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filco is cherry browns i think < 1277010857 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighter than the buckling spring, not quite as nice, but it also has n-key rollover < 1277010877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? brown? < 1277010882 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1277010887 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few kinds of cherry keyswitches < 1277010893 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called by their colors < 1277010894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image please < 1277010900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm think I'm going insane XD < 1277010903 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image won't really tell the difference < 1277010908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate non-white keyboards. Okay thinkpad is black but that is laptop < 1277010910 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to do with how much force and feedback they have < 1277010913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant for desktop keyboards < 1277010913 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the keyboard is all black < 1277010916 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matte black < 1277010920 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice small form factor < 1277010926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh < 1277010933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white full size please :) < 1277010938 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.comcast.net/~olimar/kb/07.JPG < 1277010943 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with 10-key < 1277010952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, isn't that das keyboard? < 1277010955 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without the nifty bubbles (i wish i had those :|) < 1277010957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lacking all the text I mean < 1277010960 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1277010974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, what bubbles? < 1277010977 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :das keyboard does that too, but the only reason i did that with this keyboard is that the rows have different slants < 1277010979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean on the logo key? < 1277010981 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277010985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I hate that < 1277011004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have liked being able to have a little extra touch to tell things apart down there < 1277011014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully it is a flat circle on laptops, and my desktop keyboard is old enough to not have it < 1277011017 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i wouldn't have been able to rearrange a printed keyboard to dvorak < 1277011025 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got the blank one < 1277011038 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n-key rollover is real nice < 1277011045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, oh indeed < 1277011047 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hold down any combination of keys that i want and they all go through < 1277011050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't work with usb < 1277011055 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully < 1277011066 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i am using it as a ps/2 keyboard < 1277011069 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filco, that is < 1277011072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277011087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, i gain about 10wpm on the unicomp < 1277011088 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1277011096 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it was worth $130 to buy this one < 1277011103 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to like it, but maybe it'll just take a lot of getting used to < 1277011117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, any flex in your laptop keyboard? < 1277011124 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm.. flex? < 1277011132 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you push real hard on the keys they bend? < 1277011144 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't say i've noticed such a thing, plus i wouldn't push that hard < 1277011149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/87210-what-keyboard-flex.html < 1277011154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first google hit < 1277011185 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now, you've been asking me for things that i googled too ;) < 1277011201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well I just provided how I found it < 1277011212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, my thinkpad has zero flex at any force I dare apply < 1277011215 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277011232 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i push a little it flexes a little < 1277011237 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not at typing forces < 1277011241 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then DARE APPLY MORE < 1277011242 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it feels pretty solid even when i push < 1277011244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, there is a very sturdy backplate on my thinkpad < 1277011248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you pay? < 1277011252 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't consider it an issue in this case < 1277011259 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pay all damages up to a maximum of $0. < 1277011270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277011309 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i would pay more attention to some things if i bought another laptop < 1277011318 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't regret the one i have < 1277011332 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had had plans to install some games on it to play < 1277011336 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't done it yet lol < 1277011342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well I went thinkpad because that was the only way to get matte I could find < 1277011343 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when i get home i wind up on irc or something with all my time < 1277011348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with my other requirements < 1277011357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to say I love it < 1277011403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, only issue is that the built in card reader does about every format except for the one my camera uses < 1277011411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good old compact flash < 1277011427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all cameras above a certain price tends to use compact flash :) < 1277011497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :( < 1277011506 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all- < 1277011510 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all-in-one-but-one < 1277011607 0 :kushed!d04a6bfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.74.107.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277011612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, ? < 1277011638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, anyway I use my old USB 1.1 card reader to transfer stuf < 1277011639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff* < 1277011647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, slow as heck but meh < 1277011651 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw ufo's in my dream the other night < 1277011670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kushed, I think you are in the wrong channel, this is about esoteric programming languages. Not esoterica. < 1277011692 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277011702 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, we've totally been talking about esoteric programming languages all night < 1277011705 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shove off ;p < 1277011717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well we can't stay on topic a lot of the time true < 1277011722 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277011727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is still mostly tech stuff < 1277011734 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1277011736 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tryin to tell me ufos aren't high tech? < 1277011754 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet aliens have some *seriously* esoteric languages < 1277011754 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Organic sorbet < 1277011758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows? by definition they are "unidentified flying objects" < 1277011769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: probably birds < 1277011776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or jet liners < 1277011781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1277011783 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1277011784 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Organic sobriquet < 1277011798 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mind me, i just wanted to use that word < 1277011801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, once they are IFOs then there is no longer an issue < 1277011816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, s/$/s/ < 1277011847 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was riding an alternate universe elevator in his dream the other night < 1277011850 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dreams are weird < 1277011862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember any recent dream < 1277011866 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna go back to this time where i had these crazy epic dreams like every night < 1277011871 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like two weeks < 1277011877 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most nights ... nothing :| < 1277011882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very rarely remember any dream at all < 1277011891 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are articles about improving dream recall < 1277011899 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one thing is to keep a dream journal < 1277011900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but care? < 1277011908 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually when you dream and can't remember, you at least remember dreaming < 1277011910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, oh you mean like in xkcd? < 1277011911 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like i don't even dream < 1277011915 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Improving dream recall helps with lucid dreams, apparently < 1277011919 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277011922 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't always remember < 1277011929 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's no fun having a lucid dream if you can't recall it < 1277011936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, http://xkcd.com/269/ like that? < 1277011936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1277011937 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cannabis effects dreaming... < 1277011943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just rename this topic to #offtopic < 1277011946 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1277011947 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never smoked < 1277011948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/topic/channel/ < 1277011969 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently #offtopic is ##unavailable < 1277011978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#offtopic | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1277011989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel name is descriptive of the common thread of this community. < 1277012005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, we prefer avoiding that. < 1277012007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277012040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is because none of us is able to concentrate very long on anything. A bit like Leonardo da Qurim in the Discworld books if you know what I mean? < 1277012050 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean since the comic, no one created TCMP? < 1277012062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I am quite good at concentrating very long on things. < 1277012071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am *terrible* at *conversing* very long on things. < 1277012075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1277012080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Anything except for the topical concept | Well, except for that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1277012105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My conversations in real-life are fraught with non-sequiturs because my brain does several mental leaps before outputting the next sentence. < 1277012108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, augh < 1277012120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh I have that too < 1277012124 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you phrased that as "outputting" a sentence < 1277012135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fraught with odd phrasing. < 1277012142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not as much < 1277012147 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't find it odd at all < 1277012147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like archaic stuff < 1277012156 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just liked it < 1277012166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's because it amuses me, sometimes I just don't *realise* it. < 1277012168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, would you find someone saying "ocular inspection" instead of "looking" odd? < 1277012177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I done that once, unintentionally < 1277012180 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would depend on the person < 1277012181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Outputting" was something I didn't realise. < 1277012192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well for me? < 1277012193 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, "odd" is sorta subjective < 1277012201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1277012202 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on context too lol < 1277012211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, casual discussion :P < 1277012213 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd probably have to think for a moment upon hearing that < 1277012218 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the sentence it was used in etc. < 1277012227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember that < 1277012229 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of anyone using "ocular inspection" in a sentence so it sounds odd to me < 1277012245 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it was suitable to the sentence it wouldn't sound odd, just quirky perhaps lol < 1277012250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I think it was related to checking if there was enough milk at home or such < 1277012253 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i once used s/// syntax in speech < 1277012261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277012274 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, i said it like "sub " < 1277012278 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, my boss didn't know wtf < 1277012282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used "grok" when talking to my mother. < 1277012293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the greatest nerd conversationalist ever, apparently. < 1277012295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like " How much milk is there in the fridge? [pause] An ocular inspection indicates 6 litres" < 1277012306 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277012307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, well that is translated from Swedish obviously < 1277012315 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ocularly inspected her body? < 1277012318 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that doesn't sound odd in context < 1277012320 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1277012321 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than my occasionally explicitly modeling the conversation as a stack and mentioning when I'm popping topics off the stack, my conversations are quite normal :P < 1277012329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "En okulär inspektion indikerar 6 liter" < 1277012332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been my reply < 1277012333 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't what most people would say, but that doesn't make it not suitable < 1277012340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, true < 1277012347 0 :kushed!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1277012350 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: haha, i've done that :| < 1277012357 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly in regards to multitasking at work < 1277012364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what? < 1277012366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *Part* of it is that I have not grown up with normal conversational partners. < 1277012372 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been known to say i've "cleared my stack" or "overflowed" it < 1277012380 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i finish all the tasks i had been postponing < 1277012385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277012386 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or forgot something because i had too many < 1277012387 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277012392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And part of it is that I'm just plain odd. < 1277012403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be an awesome reply next time mom asks too many things at once < 1277012407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall remember that < 1277012415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who here isn't odd? < 1277012429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently when I was a child, my parents learned that they should just talk to me as an adult, because that's how I'd respond. < 1277012430 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a random sampling would indicate about half? :P < 1277012433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: When you're having a conversation, generally you go from less specific topics to more specific topics, but occasionally you finish a topic and go back, then drill down on other ones. I make this behavior explicit, and when a topic is over but its parent topic needs further detail, I'll say "OK, popping that conversation off the stack, *such*" < 1277012434 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote to be one of the evens < 1277012436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, that's a null set < 1277012443 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h236.41.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277012489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would explain why I seem to recall discussing my mom's college classes (in detail) when I was, like, 10... < 1277012500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, huh, that is with one other person right? With a group of 5 students discussing stuff during the lunch it tends to be spaghetti goto! < 1277012502 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i remember teaching my mom algebra < 1277012508 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, helping her with her homework < 1277012511 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before i ever took the class < 1277012514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, rather than a nice call stack < 1277012527 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this'd be like 3rd or 4th grade(?) < 1277012542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, her homework? < 1277012543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277012543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Works best with no more than 3 or 4 people, yeah. < 1277012545 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For anyone not fluent in binary" < 1277012546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: In my case, it was just because I found the topic made for interesting discussion. < 1277012551 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to kill pete cashmore... < 1277012554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course it did. < 1277012554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, time travel involved? < 1277012557 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: she was going back to school < 1277012560 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :college < 1277012567 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but had to get prereqs out of the way i assume < 1277012575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277012580 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i mean, i wasn't exactly much past 4x+3 = 7 < 1277012588 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do remember helping explain how to solve for x in simple cases like that lol < 1277012602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also some of the people I'm eating with at university tends to have very hard to concentrate on one thing at a time during lunch. It is like they turn everything off between 12:00 and 13:00 < 1277012609 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277012646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarity usually ensues though < 1277012650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no one cares very much < 1277012682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often have to prefix my sentences with "This is completely random, but:" < 1277012683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, what stuff did she study at uni then? < 1277012685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of course it is. < 1277012720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1277012731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I mean... I had to do much more than that before I went to uni to even get on the CS studies < 1277012732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think that's just because I treat IRL conversation a lot like IRC. < 1277012739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple differential and what not < 1277012755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with how I have IRC'd *much* more than I've talked IRL. < 1277012774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277012779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I tend to do a lot of both < 1277012815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've spent several years in the middle of fucking nowhere. It's either IRC or stare into the abyss for socialness. < 1277012817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277012824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1277012838 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been in various non-IRC chatrooms long before ever hearing of IRC < 1277012843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have homebody tendencies. < 1277012854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've been on IRC since I was 8... < 1277012857 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's... um, a place that alise knows about before I started being an IRC person < 1277012866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I have never been on any IM or other type of chatroom except irc < 1277012879 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember a single one of my online activities from before I was 11 < 1277012889 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 was when I started chatting.. erm, yeah < 1277012899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember any such because I didn't have any < 1277012905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modem, pay per minute connected < 1277012911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible for your childhood that is < 1277012929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm such an Internet addict. < 1277012936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have actually spent more time on than off. < 1277012940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I can manage without internet < 1277012945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, including sleep? < 1277012960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277012974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, from the day you were borne? < 1277012979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277012980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :born' < 1277012985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'/*/ < 1277012991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Severe addiction from 8 on. Hmm. No, not *quite*. < 1277012999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1277013001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is fine < 1277013006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were older, than *yes*. < 1277013007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277013018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay that is not okay < 1277013042 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things are only not ok if they interfere with mental or physical health, imo < 1277013051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Except that I'd probably be a bit more likely to get out with, y'know... Reasons to get out. < 1277013059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "being near anything to go to". < 1277013068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Sgeo_ seems to use virtual worlds for that < 1277013073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277013079 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277013143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend way too much time on the Internet < 1277013179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly as a crutch to avoid things, though. It usually doesn't interfere with things I want to do (things my parents want me to do, on the other hand...) < 1277013187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a reason to at least. I can always blame it on CS studies < 1277013192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to use the computer! < 1277013217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how old are you? < 1277013222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 < 1277013230 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my mom wasn't in CS lol. she just had to pass her math credits or something < 1277013231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah two years younger than me < 1277013238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, ah < 1277013247 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know, i think she studied graphic design or some such < 1277013250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277013282 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she worked in desktop publishing type stuff for a while, but now she's an "administrative assistant" < 1277013328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is that? < 1277013348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway going to eat breakfast. Only slept about 2 hours tonigjt < 1277013350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tonight* < 1277013351 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a glorified business word for secretary < 1277013352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1277013358 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1277013783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1277014256 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277014614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I see < 1277016271 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1277019183 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277020442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm wondering how you could create pattern matching constructs that aren't strictly data constructors < 1277020457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: look up "views", i think < 1277020508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277020509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen it mentioned in the haskell community. < 1277020620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact Data.Sequence has some functions called something like left and right view of a sequence which i think are inspired by it (but which cheat and make new data types with real constructors, since haskell still does not have actual views) < 1277020681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also something relatively new in ghc called pattern guards, but those are still constructor based too i think < 1277020793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think views are like better records in being one of those features that have so many possible variants that they can never agree on which one to actually implement < 1277020799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277020800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277020947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uorygl: Going to a country does not automatically change your surname. < 1277020981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall reading that if you become a thai citizen you have to get a thai surname (which btw must be unique for your extended family) < 1277022985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277023595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1277024242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how did you get so many hats? < 1277028561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a hat. < 1277028612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest thing I have to one is a sick bowl with a ribbon from a chocolate box on it. < 1277028754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not completely sure about this, but I think there are some sort of shops that *sell* them. < 1277029259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the fun in that? < 1277029324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you may have to get all your hats from the heads of defeated enemies. < 1277029365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1277029374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does Gregor live, again? < 1277029445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't live anywhere, he just moves around and does cool stuff and wears hats < 1277029450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1277029496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't it illegal to steal a dead person's hat? < 1277029535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: If it's a duel, I think you're entitled to the hat, but don't quote me on this. < 1277029547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the moral thing to do is just leave them there after < 1277029563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well right if it's a duel then maybe < 1277029630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I challenge you to a duel. You must wear every one of your hats. < 1277029708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may pick the weapon. < 1277029752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he chooses c you're doomed. < 1277029783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think it is sort of an extendion to the scalp thing. If you don't want to be a scalp-less corpse (might be distressing for the relatives) you can wear a hat, and then you'll only lose that. (And your life, obviously.) < 1277029827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An extendion, the fundamental particle of extensions. < 1277029852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Caution: extendion radiation." < 1277030009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277030124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how do you kill someone with C? < 1277030134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free()? < 1277030293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the power of POSIX, you can kill(2). < 1277030394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with plain C, you can remove(3) someone, if you know their (path) name. < 1277030670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you must hate freedom, man < 1277030751 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277031278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know his name. < 1277031290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does noy know mine. < 1277031299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/noy/not/ < 1277031386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noy. < 1277031820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can I remove(3) fizzie? < 1277032574 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277032648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to mount my location first. < 1277032715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland. < 1277032989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount Finland /mnt/finland < 1277033182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm /mnt/finland/`whois fizzie` < 1277033197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm "/mnt/finland/`whois fizzie`" < 1277033205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since there's probably a space) < 1277033372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hope they have some sort of permissions system set up for that. < 1277033419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1277033427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is reality's root password? < 1277033431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I know. < 1277033447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo rm "/mnt/findland/`whois fizzie`" < 1277033452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password < 1277033471 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1277033720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1277033774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1277033783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mount Finland as root. < 1277033986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unpoof* < 1277035239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the device I used for Finland made no sense. < 1277035283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be /dev/finland or something weird like /dev/st43. < 1277035635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly you could mount a NFS-exported Finland from the .fi root servers. < 1277035864 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277035878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Was it you who was interested in getting raw binaries out of GCC? < 1277035889 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.127.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277035897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes. < 1277035956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://pastebin.com/eChGDKDy might be interesting, then. Apparently GAS has a ".code16gcc" directive which takes GCC-generated 32-bit assembly and adds all those instruction prefix bytes to handle 32-bit operands and addresses and such. < 1277035973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result is pretty ugly, but seems to mostly work. < 1277036005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also included is a single linker flag that creates a .com-compatible file (load address 0x100) without having to fiddle with GCC .specs files and linker scripts. < 1277036056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Global data might still end linked up who knows where, though, unless you explicitly __attribute__ the data into the .text segment.) < 1277036068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is it a DOS binary? < 1277036088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A DOS .com file doesn't really have what you'd call a structure. < 1277036093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just raw code. < 1277036110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, if it's this hard to write extremely low-level C programs, how do they do things in Linux?) < 1277036147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1277036167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they dont use 16 bit < 1277036197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277036200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or COM < 1277036228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; gcc's not really the right tool for this. < 1277036229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low level CODING is harder :p < 1277036230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you still need to write a loader for the executable format. < 1277036499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, must leave. < 1277036508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo reboot < 1277036510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password < 1277036513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277036532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use shutdown -r fool < 1277039607 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277042131 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277042478 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1277043342 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@85-127-72-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1277043596 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why < 1277043614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If halt or reboot is called when the system is not in runlevel 0 or 6, < 1277043614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in other words when it's running normally, shutdown will be invoked < 1277043614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : instead (with the -h or -r flag). For more info see the shutdown(8) < 1277043614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : manpage. < 1277043616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, never mind < 1277043621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sure reboot was more chainsaw-y < 1277043646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, alise init is better, it has no reboot command :-P < 1277043732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 0.02 (0.24) < 1277043732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05)) < 1277043732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 0.12 (1.45) < 1277043732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38)) < 1277043732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 0.16 < 1277043733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 2,687 < 1277043735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40). < 1277043763 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you sleep? < 1277043764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so good, it would take one and a half months and $2,687 to develop all its 111 lines. < 1277043768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes; and well. < 1277043822 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a miracle! F*ckin sleep, how does it work? [Yes, I have that meme stuck in my head now] < 1277043858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't censor. < 1277043862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irritating. < 1277043867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bowlderise, is more accurate here I guess. < 1277043874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bowdlerise, even. < 1277044135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I have an init; then, I suppose I should write a login. < 1277044151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I wonder, is the Linux login(8) fine? Will it function without PAM? < 1277044163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's not (8); *(1) < 1277044185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a successful login, you will be informed of any system messages < 1277044185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and the presence of mail. < 1277044187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggests some bloat. < 1277044225 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277044237 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277044264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, login's job: prompt for username and password, check password against /etc/shadow, set real and effective user and group IDs according to /etc/passwd, and also $HOME, $SHELL, $PATH, $LOGNAME and $MAIL from /etc/passwd. "Ulimit, umask and nice values may also be set according to < 1277044264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : entries in the GECOS field." but I doubt I really need to do that. < 1277044301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An annoying part of login is of course the raw terminal handling you need to read the password safely... < 1277044390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, mingetty is nice. < 1277044390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very tiny. < 1277044713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I can't seem to get it working, though. < 1277044952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, mastodon's init(8) does the service handling stuff. < 1277044954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should do that. < 1277044965 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1277044982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's very close to, say, restarting services, etc., which is bloat. :P < 1277045166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's all fine and well to have a need(8) which makes init(8) start and register /etc/init.d/foo if it hasn't already been, but then what if foo crashes? < 1277045169 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably eat breakfast or something < 1277045248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i actually find "f*cking" more offensive than "fucking", although the quantities of offendedness are too small to measure accurately < 1277045248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In New York, screenings were picketed by both rabbis and nuns ("Nuns with banners!" observed Michael Palin)[8]. It was also banned for eight years in the Republic of Ireland and for a year in Norway (it was marketed in Sweden as '"The film so funny that it was banned in Norway").[17] < 1277045254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- [[Monty Python's Life of Brian]] < 1277045284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's a really random place to meet someone? < 1277045317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't realize the ideas i have right now < 1277045343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i'm the expert in this area so maybe i should just continue thinking < 1277045390 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of really weird places < 1277045435 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1277045505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: underground < 1277045512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digging in the middle of nowhere < 1277045680 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Google ever pull things from YouTube without a DMCA notice? < 1277045694 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or DCMA, not sure which) < 1277046020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't THINK so. < 1277046201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how libc 4 is still maintained. < 1277046254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef write < 1277046255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function_alias(write, __write, __ssize_t, (d, b, n), < 1277046255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DEFUN(write, (d, b, n), < 1277046255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int d AND CONST PTR b AND size_t n)) < 1277046256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me what < 1277046561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that would be perfect, but i don't know an underground place < 1277046648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just go to a hill, a hill whose neighbours are other hills and land, where there are no other people and anyone you know would take at least two hours to get into audible range, and walk down the hill, here, at the bottom of the hill, you dig < 1277046650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you dig < 1277046652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you dig < 1277046661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you find someone, or you keep digging and end up on the opposite side of the world < 1277046674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there, there will be someone, if there is not, you walk until you find another place like I described but in this new place < 1277046676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you dig < 1277046680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you never stop until you see someone < 1277046826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Actual printf innards. < 1277046826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * < 1277046826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * This code is large and complicated... < 1277046826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1277046831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/* < 1277046834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So newlib is derived from libc4... < 1277046929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But uclibc is not. < 1277047046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, userspace. < 1277047050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure wish there were people actually here. < 1277047127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I always wondered why signaling init was chosen as a way to initiate reboot. After all, we do not mount devices by signaling init. We do not up network interfaces by signaling init. I mean, we do not do by 'kill - 1', why do we do this particular admin action (reboot) in this bizarre way? < 1277047127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can kill all processes, remount RO and reboot without signaling init.]] < 1277047131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man has a point... < 1277047168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[You can have a separate "daemon spawner" process and thus remove this functionality from init. Init's code will get much simpler:]] < 1277047172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and he just invented daemontools. < 1277047425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277047426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://busybox.net/~vda/init_vs_runsv.html < 1277047434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[guy is beating the unix guy soundly with logical arguments] < 1277047435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix guy: < 1277047435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're arguing against something people have spent 30 years making work. They do it that way for a reason. < 1277047440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ +$// < 1277047444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: "I just lost the argument." < 1277047456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me: < 1277047457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Age is not a valid technical argument. Sendmail is maybe 30 years old too. People are still using it. It doesn't make sendmail any better. < 1277047457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix guy: < 1277047457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go make it work your way and then come back to us when you hit a tricky corner case having to do with process group inheritance or console ownership some such piece of evil, and we'll tell you how it was worked out in the existing code many years ago... < 1277047458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me: < 1277047460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am doing exactly this for several years now, and want to let people know that it actually works rather nice. < 1277047535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa; '>x' is a quicker way to create a file than touch(1). < 1277047654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hey... cloning daemontools; what could go wrong? < 1277047903 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must Pidgin suck so badly < 1277048579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it does. < 1277048586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empathy is worse, though. < 1277048790 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-20-119.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277048857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need naming assistance! < 1277048952 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277049564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is getpass(3) obsoleted? < 1277049600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since libc < 1277049600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.4.19 also line editing is disabled, so that also backspace and the < 1277049600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : like will be seen as part of the password. < 1277049605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is silly. < 1277049675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * These I liked writing. More library routines like these. Linus < 1277049675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1277049687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- abs.c, libc 2.2.2 < 1277049694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a rather small file. < 1277049880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* A clever implementation of this would do sequencing of non-numeric < 1277049880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * arguments. But that would take time and energy to do. < 1277049880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1277050319 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277050425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish someone here had strong opinions >_> < 1277050432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you have strong opinions! < 1277050453 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277050480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, syslog is highly crufty. < 1277051488 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-20-119.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277052071 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277052131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, where is pikhq? I need his opinions < 1277052147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then you may have to get all your hats from the heads of defeated enemies. < 1277052156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've been reading girl genius? :D < 1277052299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100519) < 1277052387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're a linux expert right? < 1277052393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is entertaining. Lies are entertain. < 1277052398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i wouldn't say that < 1277052416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1277052427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just from a song < 1277052453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWD1h4vqg8 [Death Note spoilers] < 1277052715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that's where I got it from. < 1277052811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wish someone here had strong opinions >_> < 1277052822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1277052822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1277052826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to get opinions :P < 1277052841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people with strong opinions should be shot, hanged and quartered. < 1277052864 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1277052930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at the same time? < 1277052937 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: u r ugly < 1277052946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I believe being hung, drawn and quartered is the more traditional variation :P < 1277052951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: why thank you < 1277052956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want. < 1277052985 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: u r welkom < 1277053082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After being hung *and* divided to four pieces, I don't think I'd really mind the bit where someone draws a picture of me. < 1277053141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. Dragged on a hurdle (a wooden frame) to the place of execution. This is the original meaning of drawn.[2] < 1277053141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2. Hanged by the neck for a short time or until almost dead (hanged). < 1277053142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3. The body beheaded, then divided into four parts (quartered). < 1277053162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being drawn was neither being drawn nor being disembowelled. :P < 1277053199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! pikhq! < 1277053204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE who knows anything :| < 1277053205 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liek cheez < 1277053296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: STOP IT < 1277053297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277053321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: stop being cheesy < 1277053335 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277053432 0 :waga!~waga@79.115.172.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277053435 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277053447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening < 1277053472 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ello < 1277053516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1277053551 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally arrived home. Too much sea shore and non-civilized places affects your brain. :S < 1277053616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: btw zzo38 made a comment that reminded me that we have a List of Ideas on the wiki, if you still want some :) < 1277053836 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1277053922 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277053951 0 :waga!4f73ac85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.115.172.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277053957 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1277053958 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1277053966 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might find a good thing there < 1277054042 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely < 1277054047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: non-civilised places? Where? < 1277054052 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in the sense that it will fail < 1277054053 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sea shore < 1277054061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1277054065 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking romanian and bulgarian sea shor < 1277054074 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bulgaria is worse then i thought < 1277054186 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: what does your nick mean? < 1277054249 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw, 'drawing' is not historically proven to mean being drawn around (say behind a horse) < 1277054265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed: < 1277054266 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could also mean having your innards drawn, which was depicted in braveheart < 1277054270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Dragged on a hurdle (a wooden frame) to the place of execution. This is the original meaning of drawn.[2]" < 1277054273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1277054277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nope. < 1277054281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The common misconception about the term 'drawn', that it refers to the act of disembowelment is reported as a confusion that spread even to Judges delivering sentence at the Old Bailey. Nevertheless (or perhaps for that reason), the sentence was often recorded quite explicitly. For example, the record of the trial of Thomas Wallcot, John Rouse, William Hone and William Blake for offences against the king, on 12 July 1683 (see Rye House Plot) itemizes the t < 1277054281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hree essential acts of the punishment within a fuller prescription, by concluding as follows: < 1277054282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then Sentence was passed, as followeth, viz. That they should return to the place from whence they came, from thence be drawn to the Common place of Execution upon Hurdles, and there to be Hanged by the Necks, then cut down alive, their Privy-Members cut off, and Bowels taken out to be burned before their Faces, their Heads to be severed from their Bodies, and their Bodies divided into four parts, to be disposed of as the King should think fit.[4] < 1277054301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An even more authoritative source than, you know, that: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1049/what-do-drawn-and-quartered-and-keelhauling-mean < 1277054342 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it wasn't recorded on braveheart's case < 1277054360 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not even sure that was the same time as the sources you quote < 1277054372 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, hey < 1277054378 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm conducting a breaching experiment on facebook < 1277054388 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1277054388 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing. just that i used it when i was smaller and now somebody uses my other nick < 1277054395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would assume that those who carried out the sentence would not decide on different interpretations of "drawn" for different cases, being that it was one sentence and all evidence seems to suggest that drawn as in being disembowelled was merely a misinterpretation. < 1277054395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Another Breaching Experiment < 1277054396 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produces confusion < 1277054413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that those who were drawn to the place of execution were usually disembowelled anyway; just not under the "drawing" part. < 1277054418 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i started adding random people from my hometown and their friends circles, and talking to them, to see what happens < 1277054420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: cheater99 is the one who asked, not me. < 1277054429 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277054430 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that usually works out well < 1277054432 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1277054445 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they just go 'hey, i don't know you :P' or something like that < 1277054480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cheater99, my old nemesis. so this is how we meet again. but this time you will not escape." < 1277054491 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also named gluon/thedarkgluon/ cp/m or waga < 1277054497 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's this one pathologic case where one person (whom i added, but have not spoken to directly) has sent me a message saying 'stop talking to my friends because you are from a different social layer' < 1277054500 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on youtube i am IAINMAN96 < 1277054506 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wonder what to answer < 1277054527 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd already written to that person saying something to the effect of 'i'm sure your buddies can decide on their own' < 1277054546 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this sort of argumentation usually does not work out and draws bad attention by marking you as an intruder < 1277054593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pidgin decided that it will keep crashing forever, apparently < 1277054684 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so glad i didn't end up using pidgin < 1277054689 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is such a terrible, terrible cancer < 1277054824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and facebook isn't < 1277054897 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1277054902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facebook is my sexy heroin < 1277054906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so alise < 1277054908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear AIM password reset: Fuck you < 1277054917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like security questions < 1277054917 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you suggest i do with the situation < 1277054930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest that what you're doing is fairly pointless and will have no ultimate gain so do something better < 1277054938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1277054946 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrongggg < 1277054954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't ask me. < 1277055053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WTFs at his password < 1277055121 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just piss on it < 1277055124 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work < 1277055125 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1277055218 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: what does your nick mean? < 1277055254 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked that < 1277055260 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i answered < 1277055269 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means nothing < 1277055270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes Meebo would work on his N1 < 1277055275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it keeps getting disconnected < 1277055625 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277055758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You mean, of course, remove a character from a string in Ω(n^2) time, but leave one copy of the character behind if the string consists only of that character, and do nothing if the input string has length one." < 1277055764 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: ok. < 1277055880 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1277055884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um wouldn't you want O rather than Omega < 1277055890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega is a _lower_ bound < 1277055906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they meant Omega. < 1277055908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is pretty awful. < 1277055917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to just remove a character from a string. < 1277055945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess Omega to show how bad it is? < 1277055956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it be O(n) < 1277056008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, xarn stole my idea :( :P < 1277056016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because the coder is amazingly awful < 1277056024 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow awesome < 1277056027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1277056030 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting a free Learn You a Haskell < 1277056032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was posted to proggit mainly for its footer, which has an amazingly bad way of detecting whether his precious character-removing javascript < 1277056045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is being used on "non child friendly" websites < 1277056049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redirects to the fbi sex offenders registry < 1277056061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.shawnolson.net/scripts/public_smo_scripts.js# < 1277056062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*http://www.shawnolson.net/scripts/public_smo_scripts.js < 1277056063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold < 1277056070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: :( I'm not < 1277056103 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you need to be awesomer ^^ < 1277056180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um doesn't everyone < 1277056189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean on paper? < 1277056206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, he means everyone < 1277056207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1277056209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, he means dead tree < 1277056276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1277057917 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277058086 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277058173 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-239.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277058330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise < 1277058333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor who < 1277058335 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1277058343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been watching it; sorry. < 1277058346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you mean yesterday's? < 1277058358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it on good authority that it was fucked up. < 1277058363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor what, his long lost cousin < 1277058393 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1277058399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq! < 1277058400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yesterdays < 1277058410 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor how < 1277058416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the odd doctor out < 1277058429 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277058446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise! < 1277058455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Long have I awaited your arrival for you dispensement of valuable opinions; for the purpose of creating something pleasurable to all system administrators; for that reason that it is designed to be usable & preferable to usage by many people with Linux systems; and because that system administration, as a profession, is recognised as the height of this activity; and thus, a system administrator, can be relied upon to give good opinions towards the f < 1277058455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urthering of this goal. < 1277058598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1277058612 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277058615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you think that you can help further this goal by the dispensing of opinions in the manner I suggested to be such a manner that you are able of it in the previous message I did send to you on a most recent date? < 1277058634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow the law of least surprise as much as possible. < 1277058645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This alone will make everyone worship your programs. < 1277058655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo! but it is a much more specific question; and thus, I shall present it to you, if the consent is given by you, such that I may enact it verily & most true. < 1277058664 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277058673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then ask the question thine. < 1277058675 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my breaching experiment is moving forward < 1277058716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, I've decided that since init is so... damn simple, it might as well just not exist at all. But then I thought, well, I'd like something to restart services and let me choose which services to start/stop at the current time, etc., and maintain all that for me. < 1277058731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then I thought -- and a lot of this was inspired by daemontools and stuff -- well, why not just make the service supervisor run as process 1? < 1277058752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That *is* essentially what you want as an init, yes. < 1277058764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even need to handle shutdown or anything; a shutdown program would just tell the service supervisor to shut down all services, run the rc.stop script (it might want to dismantle some configuration or something), kill everything, then tell the kernel to shut down. < 1277058772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 doesn't need to handle that. < 1277058803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like quite a reasonable pid1 setup.\\ < 1277058823 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277058847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So! My question is: I'm using the directory layout /var/sv/*/{run,down}, a la daemontools and runit. < 1277058856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But how can I mark an enabled vs disabled service? < 1277058874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it is done, it must have the draconian restraint that you must be able to mark a service as disabled, but then symlink another directory to it and mark the symlink as enabled. < 1277058876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it so that it tracks service dependencies and can spawn multiple processes at once, and you will have something quite good... < 1277058882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this even possible? < 1277058915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1277058934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't really do it with +x, since not being able to cd into a directory is inconvenient. < 1277058940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+w makes no sense, and +r is even more disasterous to remove. < 1277058953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And -w is also inconvenient, anyway.) < 1277058956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest way is to have a directory for the enabled services that aliseinit looks at, and symlink in the configuration files into that. < 1277058962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it seems if it's a permission it has to be some rarely-used thing. < 1277058974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, setuid to root, which is fine because they're only executable as root anyway. < 1277058985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but that's also quite thoroughly ugly. < 1277058988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a pain to use. < 1277059025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1277059036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that what you *want* is to use extended attributes. < 1277059064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are supported by most Linux filesystems. So, you could just have a "aliseinit_enabled" attribute on those files... < 1277059166 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277059167 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1277059167 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277059169 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of making a language wich uses roman numbers and latin commands < 1277059276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does JFS support them? < 1277059286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277059304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll consider it. < 1277059311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://gael-varoquaux.info/computers/garamond/index.html -- wow, it's an actually pretty font for LaTeX. < 1277059316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're actually supported by most POSIX systems. < 1277059320 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-239.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277059320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A /good/ Garamond. < 1277059324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this *is* a POSIX extension... < 1277059330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He took URW Garamond and made is less crap.) < 1277059333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1277059372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1277059397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not too turned off by the standard latex font, honestly < 1277059408 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an air of ... quality .. to it < 1277059420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the Didone quality, and it's actually the air of a whore. < 1277059429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277059555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really want is a nice Baskerville for LaTeX. < 1277059628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeLaTeX can do Opentype fonts; there you go. < 1277059683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but then you lose the ability to use the microtype package, don't you? < 1277059689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1277059701 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure at least one of you will understand this sequence: I, II, III, IIII, IVI, IIIVII, IIIIIVIII, VIIVIIII, IVIIIIVIVI, IIIVIVIIVIIIVII, ... < 1277059706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want them for is a high-quality typesetting of all five volumes of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :P < 1277059715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but doesn't baskerville have the air of a hound? < 1277059718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1277059718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is certainly H2G2's real typeface. < 1277059727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: no < 1277059730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare to the more flowery Garamond. < 1277059750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, but why. < 1277059798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Question: Would you happen to know where I could ...obtain... a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text with markers for, e.g. the italic quotations of the Guide? < 1277059805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And preferably different open and close quotes. < 1277059810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I may import it into LaTeX format. < 1277059827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I do not. < 1277059836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1277059862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: gah < 1277059886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because it's off-topic, and this channel is inherently off-topic, maybe. >.> < 1277059923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how the roman version develops asymptotically < 1277059946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Is that look-and-say or Thue-Morse? < 1277059956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look-and-say afaict < 1277059956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I hope you do realise that IIII is arcane. < 1277059965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, even more arcane than Roman numerals themselves. < 1277059968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: look-and-say is not off-topic! well not much. < 1277059978 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIII is not a Roman numeral; it is the roman numeral III followed by the letter I. < 1277059982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has it in his wikipedia watch list < 1277059992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you think it's Thue-Morse? < 1277060014 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277060025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIII is a Roman numeral. It's just an archaicism, even for an archaicism. < 1277060032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it should go: I, II, III, IV, VI, VI, VI, ... < 1277060039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IVI is not a Roman numeral. < 1277060052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's look and say you dumb fool < 1277060058 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277060062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because IIII -> 4 -> IV, IIIV -> 6 -> VI, IVII -> 6 -> VI, ... < 1277060065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See above. < 1277060074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canonicalising the Roman numerals at each step produces a cycle. < 1277060082 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIIV could be 2. :P < 1277060103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, hey < 1277060105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1277060112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bad mood... < 1277060120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, symlinks or crazy attributes? :P < 1277060140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well slightly. however the canonicized version has very uninteresting development, then < 1277060152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or a config file. :P < 1277060154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1277060160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, because it's meant to be on the fly < 1277060169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "sv d tty1", for instance < 1277060178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then so does look-and-say in unary :D < 1277060184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the symlink thing is so that you can have a service tty with the run: < 1277060184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1277060185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec mingetty $(basename $(dirname "$0")) < 1277060189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and have it disabled < 1277060196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: then symlink tty[123456] to it < 1277060197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and enable them < 1277060203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1277060235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1012591.txt?key=wicptt1zdexdhmy1azkoyg example process tree < 1277060613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out how to tell latex to always set & in italic < 1277060696 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a macro?????????????????? < 1277060726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would define \foo, not &. < 1277060766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate rls "I" < 1277060786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1277060795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate rls "I" < 1277060798 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","II","III","IIII","IVI","IIIVII","IIIIIVIII","VIIVIIII","IVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVI < 1277060933 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1277060949 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolang using roman numerals? < 1277060964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not this < 1277060979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but waga considers one < 1277060997 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that list it just generated supposed to be? < 1277061009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look-and-say using roman numerals < 1277061023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what uorygl pasted above, extended < 1277061065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure this version has atoms, or does it < 1277061120 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atoms? < 1277061140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division into substrings that never interact again < 1277061144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277061207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee any string must evolve to something starting with I sometimes, because you cannot have more than 3 V's in a row (if even that) < 1277061240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are there strings that never evolve to anything starting with V? if so those could start atoms < 1277061322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if every string must evolve into both strings starting with I and strings starting with V then there can be no atoms, because every boundary between substrings will sometimes evolve to get matching letters < 1277061339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the final letter of a string is preserved in descendants) < 1277061682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 4) $ iterate rls "I" < 1277061684 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","IVI","IVIIIIVIVI","IVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIVIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVIV","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI"] < 1277061722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly looks like the initial parts repeat every 4 iterations < 1277061766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in fact < 1277061795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 400) $ iterate rls "I" < 1277061799 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI"] < 1277061877 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1277061881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 4) $ iterate rls $ "IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI" ++ undefined < 1277061883 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIIVVI","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIII < 1277061910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep the repetition doesn't depend on what comes after < 1277061950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 4) $ iterate rls $ "IVIIIIVVI" ++ undefined < 1277061952 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["IVIIIIVVIinput.23335.hs: Prelude.undefined < 1277061959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1277061974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . tail . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 4) $ iterate rls $ "IVIIIIVVI" ++ undefined < 1277061976 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["IVIIIIVVIinput.23373.hs: Prelude.undefined < 1277062056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V","VI"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 . drop 2 . map (take 20 . head) . iterate (drop 4) $ iterate rls $ "IVIIIIVVI" ++ undefined < 1277062059 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["IVIIIIVVIinput.23455.hs: Prelude.undefined < 1277062097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it would seem that _does_ depend on the rest < 1277062136 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277062480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate rls "I" < 1277062483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","II","III","IIII","IVI","IIIVII","IIIIIVIII","VIIVIIII","IVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVI < 1277062507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there aren't more than 5 I's in a row < 1277062544 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel.l this is fun < 1277062617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see why there cannot be more than six, assuming you cannot have more than two V's < 1277062728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok five is max assuming you cannot have three I's followed by two V's < 1277062783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you cannot have more than two V's < 1277062823 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible for look and say to ever contain "33", assuming it started from "1" ? < 1277062831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277062841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1277062847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277062863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you cannot have is 333 < 1277062901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V"]; rls s = concat [show(length g) ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate ls "1" < 1277062903 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277062913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1277062922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; ls s = concat [show(length g) ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate ls "1" < 1277062942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what < 1277062959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523! < 1277062964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1277062965 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","31131211131221","13211311123113112211","11131221133112132113212221","3113112221232112111312211312113211","1321132132111213122112311311222113111221131221","11131221131211131231121113112221121321132132211331222113112211","311311222113111231131112132112311321322112111312211312111322212311322113212221","132113213221133112132113311211131221121321131211132221123113112221131112311332111213211322 < 1277062970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that bug again < 1277062986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: you will see some 33 in there < 1277062990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1277063008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm writing an init system, isn't that interesting. :P < 1277063014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it is vaguely < 1277063021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was learning to make .deb packages < 1277063036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I went and used autoconf for a Java program, just to make people's heads explode < 1277063165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hastily attempts to change the font LaTeX is using; to typeset something translated from German in a Didone font is something akin to murdering a young child. < 1277063267 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... perhaps I should use Mnesia for persistent storage. < 1277063282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In seinen Armen das Kind war tot < 1277063487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes a lack of modern floppy distros. < 1277063490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should fix this. < 1277063507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want X11 running off of floppy disks *because I can*. < 1277063614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) note that no roman numeral contains more than 3 equal letters in a row. from this it follows that after one generation, you cannot have more than 7 equal letters in a row. < 1277063643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :) < 1277063653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you use Xvfb you can avoid including drivers, which would help fit it on. < 1277063695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Statically link everything with uclibc, have no kernel modules and remove almost everything from the kernel (support only floppy fs, say), use busybox, strip down x11 to only have framebuffer drivers, and don't start any services but... getty. < 1277063696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) note that now each numeral used contains a maximum of 3 I's and 1 V. from this it follows that after _two_ generations, you cannot have more than 7 I's or 3 V's. < 1277063698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the network. < 1277063701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was thinking of using kdrive, actually. < 1277063706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then you'll have room for, say, dillo. < 1277063720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And feh, and maybe even a stripped down X-Chat; failing that, irssi. < 1277063726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a full-featured but very very very tiny X11 implementation. < 1277063728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some IM client, probably, like ayttm. < 1277063737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess not X-Chat. < 1277063751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But feh, irssi and ayttm will probably fit if you have a ~100 KiB kernel and ... how big is busybox again? < 1277063755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably compile it with the VESA driver. < 1277063770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of X.Org Server version 7.1, the KDrive framework was integrated into the reference implementation and is now part of the generic source code release of the server. < 1277063779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox is about 500k if you don't do too much to it. < 1277063780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But framebuffer lets you have NO DRIVERS AT ALL. < 1277063788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much can you strip busybox? Don't need telnetd, or its init. < 1277063792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual init can just be a shell script. < 1277063803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The framebuffer still has drivers. < 1277063809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-kernel drivers instead of in-userspace. < 1277063818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But are they smaller than vesa? < 1277063827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kdrive only can have one driver. < 1277063830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets compiled in. < 1277063834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1277063850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to make the LaTeX memoir class use Roman numerals for chapter numbers? < 1277063854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) after three generations, this reduces to 7 I's or 2 V's, (4) then after four to 6 I's or 2 V's < 1277063855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, technically no drivers, just a question of what hardware there's compiled in support for. < 1277063866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, all your figures there, alise? Those are before compression. < 1277063879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1277063888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would at bare minimum be using an lzma'd initrd. < 1277063890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm... you could compress it with xz, if your booter supports that. < 1277063895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume xz will fit on the floppy. < 1277063903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern Linux has support for lzma compression. < 1277063908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, we should do this. It'd be fun. < 1277063920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including for the kernel image. < 1277063921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even a "package manager" that installs some optional software to RAM from the interwebs? < 1277063935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on the assumption that you have over 1.44 MiB of RAM. < 1277063958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a 386 should fit that assumption. < 1277064137 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277064151 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1277064437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows? < 1277064447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It needs a silly name. < 1277064646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIIIII <- (V)IIIVV(I) <- (V)IVIIIII(V), (V)IIIIIIVIIIII(V), (V)IIIIVVIIIII(V) or (V)IIIIIVVIIIII(V) afaict < 1277064661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Busybox is designed to be stripped, you can choose which binaries to put in there at compile time < 1277064668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1277064678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there can also be six I's at the end < 1277064678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say < 1277064682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in latex, when typesetting something to be printed on a book < 1277064686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what size argument do you pass < 1277064688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a4paper etc < 1277065153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277065442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds no very interesting links about the roman look and say sequence (it's in OEIS, fwiw) < 1277065460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? binary? < 1277065466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with substitution I -> 1, V -> 5) < 1277065516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, netcat's telnet mode is buggy < 1277065551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the telnet protocol, requests and acknowledgements have the same syntax and you distinguish which is which by remembering the history of the connection < 1277065575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat interprets all telnet metadata as requests and sends acknowledgements < 1277065581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if both ends of the connection do that, you get an infinite loop < 1277065613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even if it doesn't have atoms, it should still grow in much the same way as the ordinary one, i think, since substrings that have sufficient _distance_ should not be able to interact < 1277065630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this the look-and-say sequence in Roman numerals? < 1277065652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277065696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obvious that it has atoms like the ordinary one, since string descendants can fluctuate between starting with I or V < 1277065722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate rls "I" < 1277065725 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","II","III","IIII","IVI","IIIVII","IIIIIVIII","VIIVIIII","IVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVI < 1277065770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for ordinary look-and-say, they tend to settle down to starting either with 22 or with 1 and 3 varying) < 1277065846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1111111111 turns into 101 in decimal look and say right? < 1277065856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1277065882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the more than one digit length blocks are sort of anomalies that are quickly reduced < 1277065909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down to max 3 < 1277065944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's uninteresting for the asymptotic behavior, as is the difference between all bases >= 4 < 1277065984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about binary look-and-say? < 1277066001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that behaves somewhat differently < 1277066006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it settles down in much the same way, though < 1277066011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm mainly interested in arbitrary starters < 1277066012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can't maintain long sequences of zeros < 1277066020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, as does base 3, in yet another way. iirc. < 1277066022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like n repeated n times for every n digits in the base < 1277066030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 0 coming last < 1277066042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100, 111222000, 1111222233330000 < 1277066043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one: < 1277066071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1111222233330000 -> 101102103100 -> 11102110121110131120 < 1277066094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> 3110122110111231101113211210 < 1277066098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it never does grow beyond 3. < 1277066104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that is; I know that it is, but not why. < 1277066124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I extended the program on my panorama platform to be able to take bracketed shots < 1277066139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but now the program is a whopping 1018 bytes < 1277066140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1277066167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the source is 9.3 KB but I meant the compiled program < 1277066184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: suppose you have less than 10 of any number in sequence; if you had four of the same number in a row, it would be either "n ns, n ns", or "x ns, n ns, n ys"; in each case, you're talking about the same number twice in a row, which can't happen in runlength encoding < 1277066220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; import Numeric; import Data.Char; ls b s = concat [showIntAtBase b intToDigit (length g) "" ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate (ls 2) "1" < 1277066224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clever < 1277066226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What sort of resources does your platform have? < 1277066226 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["1","11","101","111011","11110101","100110111011","111001011011110101","111100111010110100110111011","100110011110111010110111001011011110101","1110010110010011011110111010110111100111010110100110111011","1111001110101100111001011010011011110111010110100110011110111010110111001011011110101","10011001111011101011001111001110101101110010110100110111101110101101110010110010011011110111010110111100111010110100110111011","1110010110010011011110111010110010 < 1277066243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know why novels often have a ToC at the beginning? < 1277066255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen a novel with a ToC before < 1277066260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should pay more attention < 1277066262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well 16 bit address space. A lot is taken up by the ROM, and then a lot of what is left is taken up by the kernel for the OS < 1277066264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often my eyes are drawn to them and they can contain minor spoilers of the kind that suggest what form the novel is going to take. < 1277066271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collections of short stories have them, but that's kind-of obvious < 1277066272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I'm not sure, pretty limited < 1277066273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should really go at the back, for reference purposes only (in case you lose your bookmark or something). < 1277066282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I think there might be a way to check free ram < 1277066287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks docs < 1277066299 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277066350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 15.7F < 1277066354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whatever that is < 1277066375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the source to find out how to interpret the value < 1277066416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15.7 farads of RAM. < 1277066424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is hex I know < 1277066463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.7F is just under 1/2 < 1277066464 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277066467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lcd_number(((mm_free_mem()>>7)*100)>>3, unsign, e_2); < 1277066469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1277066480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use a hexadecimal point < 1277066485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the code it uses to display it < 1277066493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have _no_ clue how to interpret it < 1277066497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems silly anyway < 1277066505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that computation I mean < 1277066513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the e_2 stuff defines where to put the dot < 1277066534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah ((mm_free_mem()>>7)*100)>>3 would give you 0x157F < 1277066540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just work backwards from that < 1277066548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1277066586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277066589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%ld", ((0x157fL << 3) / 100) << 7); < 1277066595 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56320 < 1277066602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1277066636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for binary, if you have more than 9 in a row then it's easy to see they'll have to come from an even longer sequence previously. and then you can argue that it whittles down a bit below 9 later iirc, i don't recall the number < 1277066637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rather weird way to represent it, still. < 1277066644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well add to that the programs I have on it: 80+1018+206 < 1277066650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes < 1277066660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still quite many bytes. < 1277066665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two smaller ones are diagnostic ones that just shows some sensor values < 1277066700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about 56.27 kiB yes < 1277066715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the fact that every numeral starts with 1 means it's even harder to get many zeroes than many ones < 1277066715 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-200-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277066719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think I've seen a novel with a ToC before <-- ? I have < 1277066739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*every numeral used (zero isn't used) < 1277066752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, what it's doing: the >>7, >>3 converts bytes to kilobytes, and the *100 is a scaling factor < 1277066768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it scaling like that though < 1277066768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kibibytes < 1277066779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably to give a more accurate value < 1277066784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives kibibytes to two decimal places < 1277066790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be useful if it didn't then convert the answer to hex < 1277066791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is a rather awkward number to read < 1277066811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", 0x157f) < 1277066812 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5503 < 1277066825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55.03 KiB, approximately < 1277066829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it has to be hex, it can't fit on the screen otherwise. it has 4x 7-segment displays < 1277066832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine quite a lot of accuracy is lost in the rounding errors < 1277066880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 has 38911 bytes free after loading BASIC; that was a trivia question in a department event. We weren't supposed to be using interwebs/google for the answers, but fortunately I had a C64 emulator in my pocket. Anyhow. < 1277066912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a c64 emulator on your n900? < 1277066924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A C64 emulator on the N-gage; this was a while ago. < 1277066929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277066938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you still have the ngage? < 1277066971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though I haven't touched it after getting the N900. < 1277066978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277066992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise anyone actually bought those things < 1277067013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, someone's added a real menu bar to this copy of VICE. (It used to be a funky-looking popup menu from the screen.) < 1277067014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277067020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game cartridge you have to remove the battery to change? < 1277067027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although IIRC they fixed that in a later version) < 1277067027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1277067032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh yes I hate that popup menu < 1277067038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it was buggy iirc < 1277067048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, the "QD" version made the memory card (it's not actually a cartridge) swappable without removing the battery. < 1277067066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The QD also removed the "side-talking" thing. < 1277067073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, side talking? < 1277067075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1011 -> 01 or 11111 < 1277067102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You had to hold the original model like this: http://darky.net/images/retardedPhones/ngage-sidetalk.jpg < 1277067109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With exactly that facial expression.) < 1277067114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1277067123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did they think when releasing that < 1277067197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sidetalkin.com/page-6.html -- as you can see, they got mocked pretty hard for it. < 1277067220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD @ http://darky.net/images/retardedPhones/ngage-sidetalk.jpg < 1277067255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not all of those are even side talking! < 1277067292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Speaking of which, here's a six-shot panorama from a hotel room we were for the Fri-Sat night: http://zem.fi/~fis/hotel-room-view.jpg < 1277067329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't look panoramaish at all? < 1277067339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a nice wide angle < 1277067354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the seam on the edge < 1277067359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tsk tsk, parallax!) < 1277067367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UPDATE 10-2009 WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT NOW ALL N-GAGE IS DEAD NOKIAaaaaaaaa you were my lover I CANNOT TYPE THROUGH TEARS GOODBYTE ^_(((((((" < 1277067368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1277067395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window was a bit deeply embedded in the wall, so you couldn't get a very wide-angle view from it. < 1277067398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from http://www.sokoshotels.fi/en/hotels/helsinki/torni/ < 1277067403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away for some moments.) < 1277067404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# ...WAIT!! IT IS MISSING THE SIDETAKLIN' FEATURE, THE VERY BIGGEST FEATURE THAT MADE T N-GAGE THE WORLDS #1 PHONE!!! THEY HAVE DONE THE UNTHINKABLE, REMOVE ORIGINALITY, REPLACED WITH NORMAL!!!!!" < 1277067413 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erl_massive_tuple_function_of_pain() < 1277067415 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277067509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fish eye at the window would work ;P < 1277067517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread, why would you use that? < 1277067536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread, if you aren't pattern matching you are most likely doing something wrong :P < 1277067537 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1277067552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, so which function? < 1277067554 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're everywhere in the Standard Library. < 1277067555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1277067563 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them. < 1277067572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any < 1277067575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me which ones < 1277067588 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going through the Mnesia database functions < 1277067595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, never used mnesia < 1277067599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can't speak about it < 1277067602 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw this at the Vintage Computer Festival and planning to get one http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook < 1277067605 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all want huge tuple specification arguments. < 1277067607 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all < 1277067608 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot. < 1277067612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine < 1277067618 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just taxing on my brain to read about all of them. < 1277067625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, okay, so I guess mnesia is bad, but as I never used on it I can't comment upon that < 1277067643 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mnesia is actually fine. It's exactly what I want to use. < 1277067649 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :persistent table storage with backups. < 1277067657 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277067660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with atomic transactions too. < 1277067669 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277067672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, a word of warning: it does transactions by optimistic concurrency < 1277067688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means it tries again in case of collisions, rather than locking in the first place < 1277067689 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277067697 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277067698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, with lots of conflicting updates this can be an issue < 1277067708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for performance < 1277067714 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, but you can configure the number of retries too. < 1277067722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1277067734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works very well with mostly reads and few conflicting updates < 1277067737 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but infinite retries should be fine. If I'm modelling the consistency of my concurrent system correctly. < 1277067757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, but in case of many conflicting updates then you could run into performance issues < 1277067765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updates in this system will take the form of user-input, which can occur at any time. < 1277067776 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from multiple people on the system. < 1277067781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well probably not going to swamp the system still < 1277067793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't expect a WoW do you? ;P < 1277067805 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. There's not going to be many people trying to update the same thing at once... and if there is I'll work out conflicts. < 1277067809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. :P < 1277067813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-20 people at the most < 1277067822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be no issues < 1277067825 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 5-7 in the same place at once < 1277067832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issues would be hundreds of conflicting updates per second or such < 1277067835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the time they won't even be interacting with anything. < 1277067907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's also http://zem.fi/~fis/hotel-room-horizon.jpg which is from few (10) larger-zoom (223 mm focal length for 35mm-film-equivalent; 37.1 mm physical, but that's not very interesting) snaps of the horizon of the previous image. < 1277067970 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the atomic transactions will actually solve alot of the issues I was going to have to work out with operations that make multiple updates.I'm wondering if there's a way to stop retrying inside the transaction. < 1277068004 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I want the transaction to fail, not retry, send an error message, and stop. < 1277068107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads < 1277068193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'll take a while again.) < 1277068198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, no clue, since I never used mnesia < 1277068205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, again? < 1277068222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will take a while again? < 1277068237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice skyline < 1277068241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which city is it? < 1277068409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... I was simply wrong about when retries occur. Retries only occur on deadlocks, but not /all/ faulty transactions. < 1277068423 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is good. < 1277068423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1277068436 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. I'm trying to figure out when a deadlock would occur though... < 1277068439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds familiar < 1277068446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not sure < 1277068465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Helsinki. < 1277068489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you realise you are dropping some of the asyncness of erlang in favour of a more traditional model by using mnesia? < 1277068590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, perhaps. But otherwise I'd just be doing all of this manually. < 1277068660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277068665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277068674 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to use dirty reads/writes a lot for common operations < 1277068681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1277068683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since only one process will be in access to a particular table at a time. < 1277068690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277068695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that < 1277068700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1277068708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess so < 1277068714 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :players, for example, will have a process that handles table transactions for other processes < 1277068714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since mnesia probably acts as a server < 1277068732 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not a mnesia thing. Just what I'm doing. < 1277068739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277068749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this Java project has an URLStreamHandlerFactory, how enterprisey < 1277068758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *puke* < 1277068782 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about JAva < 1277068785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not as bad as it seems < 1277068786 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you cannot help but use such names. < 1277068799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has actually gotten used to Java idioms. < 1277068814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically around six lines of code that delegate ways to interpret URLs that Java doesn't know about to classes which do know how < 1277068841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, better name: "UrlDispatcher" < 1277068844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a function < 1277068847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as a class < 1277068852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1277068853 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277068854 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible. < 1277068859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better: url_dispatcher < 1277068868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the horrible camel case < 1277068868 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you know, /everything/ is an object. < 1277068881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes but put it as a function in some other class < 1277068884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but the point is that the URLStreamHandlers are persistent < 1277068888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one only gets created once < 1277068893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then gets cached < 1277068896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's an object, except those things that aren't, like basic types. < 1277068902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is what sane languages have global variables for! < 1277068926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Java has effectively global variables too < 1277068930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277068934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I never give difference of opinion on naming conventions any real credit. They are all equally suitable as long as the convention is consistent. < 1277068935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't normally use them, except sometimes for constants < 1277068941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static variables are pretty much global < 1277068944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to put them into a class, but only for namespacing purposes < 1277068950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that they act just like global variables < 1277068957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277068970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does java have static class methods stuff? < 1277068981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I've seen a lot of Java code that instantiates singletons as a static (read: effectively global) variable. < 1277068981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that you could just use those and put everything in a single class < 1277068985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be done with it < 1277069005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes there are static class methods. < 1277069012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just use that < 1277069021 0 :waga!~root@188.26.63.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277069021 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277069023 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Math class has a lot, for example. Math.cos, Math.sqrt, etc < 1277069024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277069026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do classical programming avoiding the OO stuff < 1277069028 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks of a language < 1277069043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga, which one? < 1277069045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "main" method needs to be static too. < 1277069047 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can effectively mimic procedural style in Java with static declarations. < 1277069051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've translated C into Java literally using similar methods < 1277069074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I needed a bzip2 decompressor in Java, and none of the available ones had an appropriate license, so I just translated one from the C < 1277069082 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: none, i am trying to think of a new language < 1277069096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, JNI? < 1277069096 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha. That's pretty crafty. < 1277069097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, new language < 1277069103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a huge pain just to decompress bzip2 though... < 1277069105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ugh, that breaks cross-platformness < 1277069118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1277069127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but you could just recompile it for each platfornm < 1277069131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :platform* < 1277069132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just translat it. < 1277069133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*translate < 1277069142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is still cross platform in the sense that C is < 1277069181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not cross-platform in the sense that I can distribute a binary and have it work < 1277069193 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be a shame if I'd make another brainfuck derivative? < 1277069194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm distributing sources too, but I don't expect the target audience of the program to be able to compile things < 1277069200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: YES. < 1277069202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT. < 1277069209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's REALLY good (it is not). < 1277069217 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1277069218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the program? < 1277069222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: jettyplay < 1277069226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1277069229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyrec player < 1277069231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277069241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would expect those to be able to compile it :P < 1277069241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of backronyming it into "Java Enterprisey Ttyrec Player" < 1277069250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I want to bring ttyrecs to a wider audience < 1277069259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, outside the nethack crowd? < 1277069283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are a lot of people who are vaguely interested in NetHack, but not in the "nethack crowd" because of this sort of attitude < 1277069303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of attitude? < 1277069320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've also translated literally some C code written in the "a single struct + pile of functions that all take as a parameter pointer to that struct, plus new/free funcs for it" style into Java, by converting the struct into a class, the data fields to public members, and the functions to static methods; but I couldn't stand looking at that for long, I just had to turn those functions into real methods to make the struct-pointer < 1277069321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-parameter implicit. When in Java, do as the Javans do. < 1277069323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that people need to know a lot about compiling and terminals and Linux and so on just to run NetHack < 1277069344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the advantage of the bzip2 translation was that the code wasn't even vaguely object-oriented to start with < 1277069349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't look wrong at all once translated < 1277069357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from a small amount of passing magic numbers around < 1277069373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you mean passing magic numbers around? < 1277069379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#defines? < 1277069393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: returning, say, 3 from a function to say that something happened < 1277069400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think I made that into an enum in the end < 1277069405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would use a #define or enum in C < 1277069443 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fuckign LinuxConsole distro doesn't include gcc* < 1277069450 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY???? < 1277069454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga, never heard of that distro < 1277069461 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1277069476 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found it in the unetbootin menu and thought i should try it. < 1277069483 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ok excepting this < 1277069494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga, unetbootin? < 1277069503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of that either < 1277069533 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unetbootin=program that downloads and installs about 20 distros automatically on the USB sticl < 1277069542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1277069562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the point of that is? < 1277069576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want to have 20 distros on an usb stick < 1277069582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't install them all < 1277069584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it installs one you select < 1277069675 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i install gcc on a linux distro without repository? < 1277069677 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1277069679 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277069690 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't compile gcc without gcc < 1277069698 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor can i compile nano < 1277069705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should I know < 1277069705 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277069709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would switch distro < 1277069718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga, arch linux is noce < 1277069719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice* < 1277069722 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just lost 5 hours using it < 1277069723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: you could try finding some gcc binaries and using them to bootstrap < 1277069744 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will first print the LinuxConsole logo, then piss on it < 1277069757 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then boot my mirbsd laptop and be happy < 1277069844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) waga, I wouldn't use a distro without a repo < 1277069850 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor me < 1277069857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waga: It has these things called "modules", and http://linuxconsole.free.fr/1.0/modules/ includes "gcc4" in a deps list of one module, but that website seems equally broken as the linuxconsole.org one. < 1277069859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) I would suggest reading stuff about it in advance < 1277069859 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the freebsd ports < 1277069863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confirms that roman numeral look-and-say sequences must eventually have strings starting with V. < 1277069873 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277069874 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1277069878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1277069887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is look-and-say? < 1277069900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um you weren't here earlier? also you don't _know_ that? < 1277069933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordinary look-and-say is the sequence 1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211 etc. < 1277069953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how do those work? < 1277069991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is one 1 -> 11. 11 is two 1's -> 21. 21 is one 2 and one 1 -> 1211 < 1277069997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277069998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277070028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for today's puzzle, count with roman numerals instead < 1277070044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 20 $ iterate rls "I" < 1277070045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know how telnet works? I'm wondering if you have to encode CR without LF as 13,0 when in binary mode, or whether just 13 is sufficient < 1277070046 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["I","II","III","IIII","IVI","IIIVII","IIIIIVIII","VIIVIIII","IVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVIVIIVIIIVII","IIIIIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIII","VIIVIIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIVIIII","IVIIIIVVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIVVIIVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIVI","IIIVIVIIIVIIIIIVIVIIVVIIIVIIIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVIVIIIVIIIIVIIIIIVVIIVI < 1277070075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can you ever get any number higher than 3 at the start of "ordinary" ones? < 1277070080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear from the RFCs < 1277070090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, can you ever get any number higher than 3 at the start of "ordinary" ones? < 1277070090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's not clear from the RFCs < 1277070090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277070094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and rather than starting with 1 or I, you can start with an arbitrary numeral. < 1277070106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1277070119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually anywhere < 1277070121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not unless you start with an even longer block of equals < 1277070126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1277070134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eventually those die out right? < 1277070134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oerjan, can you ever get any number higher than 3 at the start of "ordinary" [look-and-say sequences]? it's not clear from the RFCs < 1277070137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what oklopol said < 1277070138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you mocking me for assuming that the RFCs would be a) clear, and b) have any correlation to actual practice? < 1277070142 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :185| oerjan, can you ever get any number higher than 3 at the start of "ordinary" [look-and-say sequences]? it's not clear from the RFCs < 1277070143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods HackEgo < 1277070145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1277070147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, you just got the context completely wrong < 1277070154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, I was talking about something completely different < 1277070169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I did realise the context was wrong. It was just funny < 1277070172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey context confusion is completely permissible humor < 1277070175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah AnMaster you completely misunderstood what was happening < 1277070188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oklopol -----### < 1277070191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no I didn't misunderstand it. I was confused at first. < 1277070197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I found it funny after I realised < 1277070199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1277070227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: on IRC? contexts get confused here all the time < 1277070256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also for the roman numeral version you cannot get more than six I's in a row, or two V's, unless you start with even more. i _think_ it may actually be five I's but i haven't proved it. < 1277070262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would suggest checking the common practise < 1277070269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1277070273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I thought of that, but I'm not entirely sure how < 1277070293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, telnet to a netcat? < 1277070294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why am I synchronizing my program if I use an atomic database system like Mnesia? < 1277070300 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster) < 1277070307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean more, netcat to a telnetd < 1277070309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what? < 1277070316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also in the ordinary version you cannot get 3 3's in a row. but you can get 3 1's or 3 2's. < 1277070319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh this is from the server side? < 1277070320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, I wonder if you can get away with just the telnet client < 1277070324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's from both sides < 1277070332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well check from both then < 1277070334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet protocol is symmetrical < 1277070364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you said I would be losing the async behavior of my server with Mnesia < 1277070374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any idea how to type a literal 0xff on a terminal? < 1277070381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not really, just saying you are trading some of it away < 1277070422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only way to get 6 to have 3 i's 2 v's < 1277070434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes it should be < 1277070437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mainly with writes, correct? < 1277070461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well I guess so yeah. mnesia *might* become a bottle neck. it depends on how you use it. < 1277070480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: however there seems to be several ways of getting _that_ < 1277070501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't checked further steps < 1277070534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, really, I never used mnesia. I know about it from reading about it, but that is all < 1277070555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1277070589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; rn = ["0","I","II","III","IV","V"]; rls s = concat [rn!!length g ++ take 1 g | g <- group s]; main = print . take 50 . map length $ iterate rls "I" < 1277070591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0xff is not valid in any UTF-8 sequence, so if your terminal is UTF-8y, it might be pretty hard to type that in. < 1277070591 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,4,3,6,9,8,10,15,24,23,29,36,49,54,62,75,92,105,115,138,161,180,202,231,268,297,331,376,429,472,524,593,666,731,815,912,1017,1120,1244,1383,1536,1689,1873,2074,2291,2526,2790,3083] < 1277070611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep < 1277070617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: as you see i left out VI in the list, so if it ever appeared it would give an error < 1277070635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, telnet seems to have been designed specifically to be annoying to type by hand < 1277070641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't seem to appear when starting with I at least < 1277070650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If normal telnet clients go to binary mode easily, you could just use one, send a plain \r both ways, and look at what goes on over the wire with tcpdump. < 1277070674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or if your terminal has menus and all that fluff, change locale to latin-1 and type in a ÿ. < 1277070680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the problem with normal telnet clients is that you can easily say "do binary mode", but they don't tell you their response < 1277070694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't know whether the remote side actually switched to binary mode or not < 1277070759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the command-line client I have has a "set binary" command that will output "Negotiating binary mode with remote host." -- if you're pretending to be the server, you could easily ack that. < 1277070788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a telnet ack has several control codes in < 1277070800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the current issue is that it's a real pain to type < 1277070840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcpdump and/or wireshark, then; the latter will give you a nicely decoded telnet conversation and all. It does need a bit of privileges to capture traffic, though. < 1277070887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklopol: (+7) Ix, (7 ) I -> II, (+6) IIx, (6 ) II -> III, (+5) IIIx, (5 ) III -> IIII, (+4) IIIIx, (4 ) IIII -> IVI, (1 ) IIIIIx -> Vy, (4 ) IIIIVx -> IVIIy, (2 ) IIIVx -> IIIIIy, (5 ) IIVx -> IIIIy, (6 ) IVx -> IIIy, (3 ) IV -> IIIV, (3 ) IVIx -> IIIVy, (5 ) IVVx -> IIIIVy, < 1277070899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ooooh, or: from CPAN, install Net::Telnet, then a longish Perl oneliner. < 1277070911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a summary of my proof every sequence must eventually get something starting with V < 1277070911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just read the source, I suppose < 1277070912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible to just go backwards from iiiiii < 1277070948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you explain the notation? < 1277070949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well probably, i did two steps far above < 1277070966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is viviiiii the only prepreimage < 1277070976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1277070987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iviiiii but we need v before < 1277071010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1277071010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: -> means what we have on the left becomes what we have on the right < 1277071015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after one step < 1277071033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x or y means what comes after is arbitrary < 1277071036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's not the prepreimage i thought i found, i guess i forgot it < 1277071038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might be empty) < 1277071039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277071055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's not for the IIIIII question btw < 1277071056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whta's (+7) < 1277071059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what's < 1277071064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1277071081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number is the maximal number of generations until you get a V at the start < 1277071098 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION started programming CONDAL < 1277071100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the + indicates that case is split up into cases listed later < 1277071101 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277071113 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commands made till now: READ and TELL < 1277071137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the fact that you cannot get more than 6 I's or 2 V's is used throughout < 1277071177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so to unnest the proof just start at the lowest numbers < 1277071217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Net::Telnet WONT BINARY, so it would be useless for discovering this particular idiosyncracy < 1277071240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok i get it < 1277071254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Aw. Perhaps the source then, if you don't have traffic-capturation tools handy. < 1277071264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should read telnetd source < 1277071303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does your computer have a floppy drive? < 1277071312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also it is "obvious" you always get strings starting with I. this means every sequence varies between starting with V and with I, which means you cannot have "atoms" like with the ordinary look-and-say sequence < 1277071319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have an external floppy drive, haven't had to connect it for a while though < 1277071333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The sign of someone who has never experienced the joy of Flinix. < 1277071341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flinix? < 1277071350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All your Linux applications, wherever you go -- as long as you only travel to the 90s." < 1277071355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1277071358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, me and pikhq are fitting a modern kernel and X11 onto a floppy. < 1277071360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because any two strings concatenated will interact ones the second string becomes something starting with what the first one ends with < 1277071360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not joking. < 1277071361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are doing this. < 1277071366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I believe you < 1277071372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe we will succeed? < 1277071375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like an entirely insane project to try, and a lot of fun < 1277071379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I believe you will < 1277071384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody will actually like using the resulting product < 1277071421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have had a use for that, just puny seven years ago. < 1277071432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, not so much. < 1277071462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the existing floppy distros back then weren't so outdated that they presumably are now. < 1277071467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, believe me, it will be quite nice to use! < 1277071476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel won't support much but the applications that do work will work fine. < 1277071489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can use more than 1.44 megs of apps if you download them from the internet into ram. < 1277071494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVGA X11, too. < 1277071514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1277071518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, we're going to make the kernel on the order of 100 KiB, and also LZMA compress everything with statically-linked uclibc. < 1277071521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> lots of free space < 1277071521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting observation < 1277071539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some sort of look-and-saying < 1277071542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*theory of < 1277071555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1277071563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't find anything for this sequence you said at least < 1277071565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*once < 1277071569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277071609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we generalise the look and say not just to be about positional bases? < 1277071612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*say sequence < 1277071652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what the natural generalization is < 1277071660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i think there may be an alternative method. if a substring is long enough then its descendants will grow so fast that information cannot pass across it. < 1277071683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can sort of make a "virtual" atom boundary inside such a string, i think < 1277071691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and split things up that way < 1277071705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i saw you say something like that in the log, although i didn't know what it was about < 1277071714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i did? maybe < 1277071724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like it :P < 1277071741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules for neither look-and-say are all that natural < 1277071749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um we just generalized it to roman numerals, remember? but any base should work. < 1277071750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, reading telnetd, it seems it doesn't /actually/ do either < 1277071751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the usual one is if you don't carry < 1277071765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: roman numerals are pretty close to being a base :P < 1277071769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sending plain 13 should work, at least with the telnetd whose source I'm looking at < 1277071770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1277071772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the form you use them < 1277071777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise, it seems to send plain 13 for \r < 1277071790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess carrying is the important thing, what kind of rewriting happens when you increment < 1277071816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, turns out a stray \0 is irrelevant in the format I plan to accept anyway < 1277071816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes there was a desktop client for Meebo < 1277071826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you could use any mapping from natural numbers to strings, presumably. however for the nice properties we have in the simple cases, the length of the string should be much less than the number for large numbers. < 1277071843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you get a maximal block length in the limit < 1277071928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also means in the limit only finitely many of the mapping strings really matter < 1277072002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why should it use a zero byte after? < 1277072036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so for systems that don't have a \r character, it knows whether to translate \r into a bunch of backspaces, or \r\n into a combined-newline character < 1277072038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like with base 10 only 1-3 really matter) < 1277072056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this motivation doesn't hold in binary mode, but it's not obvious whether the unusual encoding of \r persists anyway < 1277072094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the rule that only 1-3 matter should hold for any mapping of that kind where small numbers get single letter strings < 1277072097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, roman numeral look-and-see would make a good anagolf question < 1277072099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1277072108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but they aren't real roman numerals! < 1277072112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would the zero byte help? < 1277072140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's actually a good point, the RFCs don't elaborate on that point < 1277072150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's for the case where you send \r, then don't send the next character for half an hour < 1277072161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring the \0 means you can send it immediately and get the \r at the other end immediately < 1277072163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1277072187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just observed on the TV news: "Pictures from You Tube" < 1277072194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh? < 1277072198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the counts are real roman numerals, the fact that the strings you concatenate them into aren't is irrelevant - it's just an accident it's true for base 10... well even then it isn't if you start with a string with non-digits in it < 1277072200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprised me too < 1277072205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think at least they'd have credited the actual uploader < 1277072211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1277072212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, i see < 1277072216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they do that all the time < 1277072225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it the BBC? < 1277072243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277072254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1277072257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they usually tend to be better than that < 1277072276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, clearly cutting corners this time < 1277072280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even got YouTube's name wrong < 1277072294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1277072303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbc? < 1277072303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, the whole AT&T personal info leak story is hilarious < 1277072313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: British national broadcaster < 1277072313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natioanl or local news? < 1277072317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't know what the bbc is? < 1277072317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... I know < 1277072319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1277072322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: national sports news < 1277072322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wondered if it was bbc < 1277072327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*national < 1277072332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's a bit less high quality :) < 1277072333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he said that < 1277072334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked that < 1277072334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I wasn't watching deliberately, my family were < 1277072335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1277072336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's ignoring me < 1277072342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the extreme stupidity. < 1277072343 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1277072368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why did you think that I was asking what bbc was < 1277072374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than if the youtube thing was bbc < 1277072376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'd already asked if it was the bbc < 1277072380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or some other channel) < 1277072380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he responded affirmativel < 1277072381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1277072384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because alise had already asked if it was the bbc or not earlier, and I said yes < 1277072386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this you saw because you were ignoring me < 1277072396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't seem him currently < 1277072411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, anagolf seems to be down < 1277072412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does AnMaster think getting the nick pronouns wrong riles me up :) < 1277072440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, loading so slowly the connection times out < 1277072441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. The Hyperevolution nutjob hasn't been spamming me < 1277072445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I refuse to comment upon if this is an ignore or not. Since I dislike people announcing that < 1277072450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does he normally? < 1277072451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey even i don't really bother with it any longer < 1277072464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I had assumed that he would < 1277072465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or her? < 1277072468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What if evolution were true, but it wasn't quite like Darwin < 1277072468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said?" < 1277072473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why? < 1277072474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's quite easy, when you're about to use a pronoun imagine i'm female < 1277072477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use mind bleach < 1277072501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I tend to stumble a bit whenever I type any sort of pronoun on IRC < 1277072510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not too hard to fit an appropriate pronoun in < 1277072514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or reword the sentence to avoid one < 1277072514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was one of those "Give me your email address, and I'll show you the secrets of science and the universe" sort of things < 1277072527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and you actually did? why? < 1277072539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's a separate gmail account < 1277072540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like replying to a spammer just to see what their reaction will be < 1277072559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I asked the same. < 1277072577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I waste spammer's time occasionally < 1277072580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually quite fun < 1277072580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that isn't unheard of < 1277072585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know < 1277072591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play being a gullible bastard then just make them run around in circles < 1277072606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't someone manage to make one start wood carving? < 1277072610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say that can be dangerous < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They say, essentially, that it's corrupted data that < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally turns out to be beneficial instead of harmful. < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is where Darwin and the biology books are wrong. < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a communication engineer I know - with 100.000000000% < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainty - that this is impossible. < 1277072613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowhere in the vast field of engineering is there any such < 1277072615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing as "the percentage of the time that corrupted data is < 1277072615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snorts < 1277072616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably idiots tho < 1277072616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely considering actually pressing the "I am still listening and would like to subscribe to your newsletter" button next time I get telephone spam < 1277072617 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, have you guys seen GoogleCL? < 1277072624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an attempt to waste as much of their money on call charges as possible < 1277072632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I don't know how much of that pasted before I /flushq'd < 1277072643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thinking about it, they probably spend more on repeated phoning and ringing off < 1277072655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that forbidden? < 1277072659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, telephone spam I mean < 1277072660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially it's command line utilities for Google web services. I'm probably going to write some scripts that utilize it. < 1277072663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/new-theory-of-evolution/ < 1277072671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the UK, it's legal so long as the other person hasn't stated they don't want it < 1277072675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're not on the do not call thing? < 1277072675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least you have some telemarketing block register afaik? < 1277072676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly? < 1277072679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell not? < 1277072680 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to, for example, sync a directory with Google Docs. < 1277072680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am at home < 1277072682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my office isn't < 1277072686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1277072687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for whatever reason < 1277072691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1277072698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1277072701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complain. < 1277072701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it exists, and it's respected < 1277072713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then that should block the spam? < 1277072713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop repeating things to him, it'll be hilarious < 1277072715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is twice in a fewm inutes < 1277072723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*few minutes < 1277072736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I didn't realise he didn't see what you said, and replied that way anyway < 1277072768 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It is fortunate for us IRC bots that you correct your spelling, otherwise my puny AI would be unable to decipher. :D < 1277072775 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in fact a robot. < 1277072782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: thank ocd < 1277072795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I correct too < 1277072796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i hav supsected < 1277072798 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mean *OCD :) < 1277072801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make what I say easier to read < 1277072803 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1277072807 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I crack myself up. < 1277072810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to disambiguate in case what I said made my intent unclear < 1277072821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to resist correcting ".." to "." before in #uclibc. < 1277072829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I absolutely freak wrt trailing whitespace. < 1277072831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: robot cracking? you're not nuclear powered i hope? < 1277072834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS THE DEVIL!!! < 1277072839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can't even see trailing whitespace on this client < 1277072853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1277072855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, s/cracking/cranking/ < 1277072857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand powered < 1277072860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: THAT IS WHY IT IS SO EVIL!! < 1277072878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly useless for a robot yes < 1277072881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: erm are you ignoring CakeProphet too? because he said crack < 1277072886 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No I'm actually a steam-powered architecture. The Reasoning Engine was a little-known third project by Charles Babbage. < 1277072893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should write a slash fiction about it. < 1277072903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, just a bad pun < 1277072905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU SAY SO < 1277072913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was to CakeProphet) < 1277072919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't slash fiction when you imply a romantic relationship between two characters from elsewhere in fiction? < 1277072923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably an implausible or impossible one? < 1277072927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I thinking of something else? < 1277072933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1277072934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: preferably a gay one iirc < 1277072939 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1277072956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that helps but isn't necessary < 1277072959 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm so used to hanging around weaboos that I just use slash fiction to mean any romantic fiction. < 1277072973 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually involving sex dungeons, of course. < 1277072980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: technically, slash is implying the relationship, and slash fiction is ... literature based on the former < 1277072980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1277072987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex dungeons. < 1277072990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: err, yes, I elided < 1277072994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those, like, dungeons were you have to have sex? < 1277072999 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1277073006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are exactly what they sound like. < 1277073016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you're acting all naive about this, the Internet will remove your illusions < 1277073020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands alise the mind bleach < 1277073028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should you be interested in that sort of thing, of course < 1277073030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking. < 1277073039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I thought you were < 1277073046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1277073048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESERVE YOUR INNOCENCE < 1277073052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OBLIGATORY sex!" < 1277073071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277073079 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be an intercal statement. < 1277073113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want some further insight into my character, I have no personal experience of that sort of thing, but /have/ read a six-page essay on how to ensure that everything stays both safe and legal < 1277073116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a lot of interesting points in < 1277073121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that would be equivalent to uninstalling intercal, me thinks < 1277073139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth have you done that? < 1277073146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it was interesting < 1277073162 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...highly. < 1277073164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay, link? I might want to take a look < 1277073167 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. < 1277073171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO, DON'T DO IT. < 1277073172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wasn't online < 1277073176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1277073181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you assume everything I read is online? < 1277073197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he bought it from a sleazy man at a street corner < 1277073202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do I? < 1277073206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277073216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, that's about 30% accurate < 1277073227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be 30% accurate? < 1277073238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't have to buy it, it wasn't a street corner, and I've known the sleazy man in question for several years, in a different context < 1277073252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1277073255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) bought it b) from a sleazy man c) from a street corner < 1277073257 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one must be false < 1277073259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277073261 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... one must be true. < 1277073264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather. < 1277073278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1277073291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you want some further insight into my character, I have no personal experience of that sort of thing, but /have/ read a six-page essay on how to ensure that everything stays both safe and legal < 1277073291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : with a lot of interesting points in < 1277073293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do things like that < 1277073297 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eat :: food -> belly (...???) < 1277073317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfood? < 1277073321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it must be eat :: Food -> Belly ? < 1277073328 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. < 1277073332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be like... undead celery? < 1277073337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfood I mean < 1277073341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the Belly here is obviously a monad < 1277073345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat :: Food -> Belly () < 1277073364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the reason I think that, is that clearly you need a pre-existing belly to modify via the food and get a new belly) < 1277073364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling for "undead celery" About 63 results (0.15 seconds) < 1277073368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised < 1277073368 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277073375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there were any hits at all < 1277073376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively you could write it out as Food -> Belly -> Belly < 1277073381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not < 1277073381 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277073385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many were dictionaries? < 1277073394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm none < 1277073413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try more obscure vegetables < 1277073417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one does look like slash fiction though < 1277073418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277073420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, undead courgettes, or undead asparagus < 1277073420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1277073454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf is courgettes? < 1277073483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a vegetable that vaguely resembles cucumber, but is a lot sourer < 1277073504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite tasty, but only if cooked correctly < 1277073506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "undead asparagus": 2 results one at "veggie zombies t-shirt from Zazzle.com.au", and one the same but without the .au < 1277073507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277073521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :australians spoiling our Googlewhacks1 < 1277073524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/1$/!/ < 1277073535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information No results found for "undead courgettes". < 1277073535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results for undead courgettes (without quotes): < 1277073535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search Results < 1277073535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. < 1277073545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Information"? < 1277073547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh alt text < 1277073550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the image < 1277073557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undead parsnips? < 1277073587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same, nothing for quotes < 1277073623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results for undead parsnips (without quotes): < 1277073623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search Results < 1277073623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. < 1277073623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> More Ninja's < 1277073626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is interesting < 1277073642 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar ninjas. < 1277073651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninja parsnips? < 1277073668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undead ninja parsnips? < 1277073671 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS. < 1277073688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information No results found for "undead ninja celery". < 1277073689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results for undead ninja celery (without quotes): < 1277073691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1277073702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just ninja celery? < 1277073703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ninja celery" About 149 results (0.28 seconds) < 1277073711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you anticipated the question < 1277073715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1277073731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Information No results found for "ninja parsnips". < 1277073746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again results without quotes) < 1277073759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ninja asparagus" About 39 results (0.17 seconds) < 1277073768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now I'm surprised < 1277073812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, guess: asparagus is commonly considered obscure. Thus it isn't < 1277073815 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1277073828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay I found a google whack < 1277073832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't post it in here < 1277073840 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-239.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277073846 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277073850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I can if I insert something in between: < 1277073860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ninja remove-this-bit courgettes" < 1277073861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1277073862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google whack < 1277073865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: quotes mean it isn't a proper googlewhack < 1277073869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to manage it without < 1277073871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1277073883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ninja courgettes About 7,130 results (0.22 seconds) < 1277073905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and the reason I think that, is that clearly you need a pre-existing belly to modify via the food and get a new belly) < 1277073906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1277073914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eaten f) is a belly that has only eaten the food f < 1277073928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eaten f `combineBellies` eaten g < 1277073932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a belly that has eaten both f and g < 1277073932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277073936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/g$/g./ < 1277073936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: `mplus`! < 1277073984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1277073991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes stdarg.h < 1277073996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, copies it: http://pastie.org/1012834.txt?key=4jh2pewjtreykilii0ksa < 1277074081 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277074126 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277074131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly you mean eat :: MonadState m Belly => Food -> m () < 1277074156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're quantifying over all monads that can keep track of a belly? < 1277074164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone I know who's not from here who's excited about a self-replicator in the Game of Life. < 1277074165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277074179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "self-replicator" is really misleading here < 1277074194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's interesting about that one is that it quines itself purely from data < 1277074207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1277074212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's the terminology used. < 1277074245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a sort of spaceship, and those have existed in Life for ages; it's just that that one has a reasonable cycle time, and also does the whole code/data separation thing < 1277074252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but you see, < 1277074259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! Chrome sometimes just ignores my entering stuff into the address bar! < 1277074263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the first replicator to build itself with synthesis < 1277074270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it's the first replicator that could theoretically leave itself behind < 1277074275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under that definition, it's the first found < 1277074281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes < 1277074284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, just erases the address I typed when I press Enter < 1277074303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm *eat :: MonadState Belly m => Food -> m () < 1277074310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eat? < 1277074333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a correction < 1277074351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had the parameters in the wrong order < 1277074361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: Don't correct like that when discussing C or C++ < 1277074368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it a sign of when someone asks you a simple probability question and you accidentally answer in hexadecimal? < 1277074383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you've been hexed < 1277074389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Esoteric's Disease < 1277074393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait... < 1277074399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Müller's disease < 1277074402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1277074403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it's just that my calculator was set to hex and I didn't notice < 1277074406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cristofani syndrome < 1277074413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1277074414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see someone use * to indicate correction, and someone takes it literally, and there's a major bug in important software as a result < 1277074417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressey syndrome < 1277074421 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there three variants of gemini? Two slope 5's with sightly different repeats and one slope 2 (knightship) variant? < 1277074426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wat < 1277074430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they found a knightship variant? < 1277074445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the replicator is a knightship < 1277074454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought < 1277074478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very chivalrous < 1277074487 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, original gemini wasn't true knightship (but there is true knightship variant of it). < 1277074495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true" knightship? < 1277074510 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true knightship => slope 2. < 1277074541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really true knightship would move 2 squares one way and one square another way < 1277074546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than 2x and x < 1277074567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define square < 1277074576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, cell < 1277074591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the smallest unit of measurement in Life is < 1277074604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be doable by combining two large moves, maybe? < 1277074620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277074632 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patterns I would want to see: 1) Still life that transforms into Caterpillar when hit with one glider in suitable way. 2) Caterpillar gun. :-) < 1277074665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the Caterpillar? < 1277074685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some buggy pattern, clearly < 1277074689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 1) should be easy enough if you know a glider synthesis < 1277074690 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge 17c/45 slope 0 spaceship. < 1277074706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could probably find a still life that turned into a glider salvo < 1277074712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when hit by one glider < 1277074800 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how I would go constructing that is to try to find backwards stablization, proceeding systematically, and then at the end figure out how to get the non-stable part to be just a single glider... < 1277074920 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transformation would take hundreds of thoursands of cycles just because of speed of light... < 1277074953 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, Caterpillar is ~330k cells long). < 1277075093 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-1-232.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277075162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277075191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it known how to make speed an arbitrary rational on a certain interval? < 1277075199 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-1-232.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277075223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can never truly rationalise drugs to yourself dude. < 1277075229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or moving fast and running a tm on the side to get creals < 1277075242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no; not until this replicator < 1277075248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should make any velocity theoretically easy < 1277075249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what replicator? < 1277075257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277075258 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ha. that's what you think. < 1277075268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean caterpillar? < 1277075393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for really slow speeds at least you'd think you could somehow run arbitrary programs to calculate delays of some sort < 1277075435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have a tm which, when it enters a state, somehow magically moves itself one step to the right < 1277075448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enters a predetermined moving state that is < 1277075452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's not exactly easy to do. < 1277075494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the moving could take as long as it likes, and then it'd continue computation, that'd get you any creal on some small interval, which would be totally awesome < 1277075502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1277075502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably real numbers that are asymptotically hard to compute to arbitrary precision < 1277075510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277075516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized that, if i understand what you mean < 1277075539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that no TM can calculate it fast enough to move at exactly that speed < 1277075543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1277075568 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you need is TIME TRAVEL. < 1277075570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case we'd probably get rationals and shit < 1277075579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1277075598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1277075603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a few of them < 1277075611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine having paradox-free time travelling computer data. :D < 1277075612 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1277075627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe all in some interval, as you say < 1277075630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must... not... mention... Feather.... < 1277075640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be huge coolness < 1277075655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches ais523 fall through a time wormhole < 1277075680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : really, it's just that my calculator was set to hex and I didn't notice <-- what model? < 1277075687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it didn't get through < 1277075693 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had some semantics mapped out for values that depend on future states via non-determinism. < 1277075718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the Gnome calculator application < 1277075722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1277075741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even when at the computer I tend to prefer my TI-830 < 1277075744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/0/+/ < 1277075792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a TI-89. best calculator ever. < 1277075889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably say something about the TI-86 at this point. < 1277075904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have that, was it so? < 1277075910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1277075921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you should know < 1277075925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : must... not... mention... Feather.... <-- ooh feather! < 1277075930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE? < 1277075933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah i'm sure < 1277075944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure, i has that basic thingie < 1277075949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always felt the -89's use of a 68k processor (instead of the Z80) somehow cheatingy. < 1277075958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's sooooo slow < 1277075968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, does the battery last as long? < 1277075980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure. It lasts long enough for me not to care. < 1277075980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I need to replace in my once every 7 years < 1277075981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1277075994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not that long though. < 1277075995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: If you have the TI-86, it's overclockable. (But then it'll use batteries faster, and might sometimes calculate things wrong if you take it too far.) < 1277075997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4x AAA < 1277076011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1277076028 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TI-89 has INFINITE PRECISION PI SORT OF < 1277076032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it superior to everything. < 1277076039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you mean CAS < 1277076042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1277076049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not allowed at exams though < 1277076062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, for CAS I just use the computer < 1277076066 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. it is in my calc classes so far. < 1277076075 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university, that is. Dunno about high school. < 1277076086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I'm talking about university level < 1277076097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : university, that is. Dunno about high school. < 1277076097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I'm talking about university level < 1277076099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE's typoed... < 1277076112 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no, we simply live in different places. < 1277076121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well yes < 1277076123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1277076128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch more SGA < 1277076130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disallowing CAS for calc would be a bit silly. < 1277076131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an addict < 1277076141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ha, yeah I know. I was talking to alise. COMMUNICATION BREAKDOWN. < 1277076147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ah < 1277076214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Haskell doesn't have some kind of built-in CAS < 1277076230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1277076279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, is there any haskell<->java FFI? < 1277076286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for either direction < 1277076296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1277076301 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it shouldn't ever be needed. < 1277076304 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1277076308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1277076312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably via C < 1277076318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can connect most pairs of languages via C < 1277076319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so nothing else then, meh < 1277076321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Haskell/INTERCAL < 1277076339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there should so totally be a direct interface between those! < 1277076391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, IFFI only works well to C befunge interpreters. I think a variant that works by a socket might be interesting < 1277076400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that way it could talk with efunge < 1277076406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either socket or a pipe < 1277076409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype MultipleOfPi = MultipleOfPi Integer < 1277076409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam < 1277076411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pipe is probably easier < 1277076426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just opening two fds from the efunge side (easier than the other way around) < 1277076428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: now represent pi+3 < 1277076494 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data PiLinear = PiLinear MultipleOfPi Integer < 1277076499 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on it goes. < 1277076508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses to the rescue, obviously. < 1277076558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a shitty way to structure a CAS. < 1277076575 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably abstract to any generic symbol besides pi as well... with a typeclass to do things like calculate approximations and combine terms. < 1277076583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1277076586 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well it was on the fly. :P < 1277076605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: control flow via a socket would require a whole interp structure at each side < 1277076618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh wait, it replaces main loop right? < 1277076618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1277076621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard then < 1277076632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not two processes cooperating < 1277076638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one process that passes control between two different languages < 1277076642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since efunge uses a main loop built around ATHR < 1277076678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however this would grant asyncness to intercal would it not? < 1277076679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277076791 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concurrent INTERCAL < 1277076803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, there is already threaded intercal < 1277076806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is lock step < 1277076814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically boring < 1277076815 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do processes ask each other nicely for state? < 1277076823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should. < 1277076842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in intercal? < 1277076844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, no idea < 1277076858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: in threaded intercal, the only way to communicate between threads is to modify the shared program they're both running < 1277076879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by abstaining from lines, etc < 1277076882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1277076906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it a pain to send integers; you can basically only send booleans, so for integers you need to send them a bit at a time < 1277076958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, either that or multiple bits at once. Imagine that the lines add 1, add 2, add 4 and so on are on separate lines after each other < 1277076959 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277076970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you abstain and reinstate from those as required to create the number < 1277076988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the same thing < 1277076996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one bit at a time < 1277076997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes pretty much < 1277077043 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-9-33.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277077087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277077142 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if i can disassemble my laptop without turning it off and without breaking it < 1277077146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but once you done it you can just reuse the same code right? < 1277077170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, no I don't want to see this slaughter < 1277077177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, of course < 1277077188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even atomic test-and-set on lines of code < 1277077190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for a generic send integer routine < 1277077198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice < 1277077205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem with the send integer routine is, you can't send it to a particular thread < 1277077223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you can do is have one thread sending and another receiving, and hope that none of the other threads happen to want to send an integer just hten < 1277077224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1277077235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? just make it take the line number of the first one as a parameter < 1277077245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how would that help? < 1277077250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in pesudo C: send_integer(base_lineno, integer) < 1277077258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, you can't implement that function < 1277077262 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277077272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then different threads could have different line number bases? < 1277077281 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1277077285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't have computed abstain/reinstate? < 1277077308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "yes" but the term means something completely different < 1277077312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1277077320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why are you relying on different line numbers for different threads? < 1277077326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean they all had to run different bits of code < 1277077337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could compile Python to BEAM (Erlang's VM code) < 1277077346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they might need anyway. One server thread and one client thread < 1277077347 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1277077364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, there is lisp for beam iirc < 1277077366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: threading in INTERCAL, you're generally creating hundreds of threads < 1277077366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not clisp < 1277077380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the closest C-INTERCAL has to structs or objects < 1277077386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay, but you could have different purposes for threads < 1277077392 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having multiple languages that compile to BEAM pretty much give you an OS. < 1277077408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, is jvm and .net OSes too then? < 1277077415 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1277077430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, also iirc most beam targeting languages goes by erlang < 1277077436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all though < 1277077459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some goes by core erlang, which is a compiler internal intermediate representation < 1277077467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite different from erlang < 1277077499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple function entry points being converted to a case and what not < 1277077511 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so they compile to Erlang usually? < 1277077525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, usually, and sometimes to core erlang < 1277077531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be some going straight to that beam asm < 1277077533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1277077561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a Ruby for BEAM. < 1277077564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, the problem is beam is not very well documented when it comes to this, developers reserving the right to change stuff on that level if they need to < 1277077604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, dunno how I'd compile Python to Erlang easily. :P < 1277077606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang is very backwards compatible, beam is not so much (but still pretty) < 1277077617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SUCCESS < 1277077625 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things would be easy. I just don't know what I would do about single-assignment variables. < 1277077633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, that is what your mother thinks? < 1277077649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you being a success I mean < 1277077669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, put them in an ets table? XD < 1277077682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that would be nasty < 1277077699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1277077700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1277077704 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a better idea, proc dictionary. < 1277077717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, cpython is a stack machine, beam is a register machine < 1277077721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth considering that difference < 1277077784 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277077786 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I bet BF would be trivial to compile to BEAM < 1277077796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1277077813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, wouldn't be too hard to compile to erlang either < 1277077819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a main loop < 1277077828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing a dict as a parameter < 1277077832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when/if I finalize that concurrent BF-based language I might compile it to Erlang. < 1277077843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf-based language? < 1277077845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1277077848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have enough of those < 1277077857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very loosely based. "based" as in its a turing machine. :P < 1277077861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1277077875 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the operations are going to be a bit more high-level, but not much more. < 1277077877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is not a turing machine < 1277077878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1277077881 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1277077882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1277077884 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lie. < 1277077885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape is pure data < 1277077889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not data an instruction < 1277077895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is turing complete < 1277077900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so is lambda calculus < 1277077920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, bf does not have the instructions on a tape < 1277077923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then perhaps I do not know what a Turing machine is. x_x < 1277077946 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every description I've read of a TM looks exactly like BF. < 1277077956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you help here < 1277077971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep < 1277077971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: control structure for a TM is different than for BF < 1277077984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, in BF you have increment/decrement for changing values, while for loops < 1277077998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a TM you have set-to-value for changing values, and switch and goto as control structures < 1277078004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly the same < 1277078011 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1277078014 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1277078061 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this language was going to have set-to-value and arbitrary-number increment/decrement < 1277078078 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any other difference? < 1277078089 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are instructions represented on tape? < 1277078236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1277078261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the instructions aren't on the tape < 1277078278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape stores data, in both a TM and BF < 1277078299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're trying to write a TM that is an interp for something, in which case the instructions are data and you can use any representation you like < 1277078315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, gotcha. < 1277078337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or a self modifying TM < 1277078349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then it isn't a TM < 1277078356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is it then? < 1277078369 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1277078371 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work? < 1277078373 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1277078379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am an master < 1277078389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, a TM interpreting a self-modifying language, I assume.