00:00:18 I have seen this error message somewhere: "Passwords with a letter 'I' in the third position are not supported. Please choose a different password." 00:01:25 what??? 00:02:57 (I didn't get this error myself, I saw it elsewhere) 00:04:39 -!- name_ has joined. 00:06:23 I am making modifications to ngIRCd program, I should call it a name a bit difference, what should I call it? 00:06:27 It is already called ngIRCd, I want this one called a bit different, I will release the codes after I implement "ChannelTypes" option (currently it is hard-coded, and that is no good), and maybe "SummonType" and "SummonTimer", and SUMMON CTHULHU command, and possibly other fixes, and a document explaining the new features 00:06:31 I just use it because it is work on Cygwin and on Linux, and it is pure C codes not too many features that I don't need, and that I can modify the C codes to change some things 00:06:53 ngircd ? 00:07:26 I use ngIRCd on my own computer. (And you can see the changes, there, too.) 00:07:27 game theory? 00:07:28 yes 00:08:24 -!- olsner has joined. 00:11:12 titForTat :: Prisoner 00:11:12 titForTat opp = C : opp 00:11:20 oerjan: how should titForTwoTats be written? :/ 00:11:23 would be kinda complicated 00:11:28 since we have to store state in a way 00:13:20 2 tats? 00:13:47 yes 00:13:56 if the other player defects, T42T (tit for two tats) still cooperates 00:14:00 but if the other player then defects again 00:14:03 making it twice in a row 00:14:05 T42T defects 00:14:24 (note that if there is a cooperate in between two defects T42T still cooperates, it's only two in a row) 00:18:25 malcontentC :: Prisoner 00:18:26 malcontentC opp = C : map other opp where other C = D; other D = C 00:18:26 malcontentD :: Prisoner 00:18:26 malcontentD opp = D : map other opp where other C = D; other D = C 00:18:40 both do amusingly well against tit for tat :P 00:19:32 Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems. 00:19:37 Some people, in an effort to sound intelligent, quote other people. Now they look retarded. 00:19:47 Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I'm going to grab a sandwich." Now they have two problems because the sandwich is poisoned. 00:19:51 they both draw with themselves, but malcontentD kicks malcontentC's ass 00:20:01 Some people, when, now they have, a problem. 00:20:11 Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "Stack overflow. 00:20:36 alise: Yes. 00:21:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:21:04 so, anyone want to submit haskell iterated prisoner's dilemma players? :P 00:21:19 as a lambda expression; you get a list of Actions and return a list of Actions; Action = C | D 00:21:30 you can use recursion with fix, that is permissable 00:21:42 always cooperates: fix (\r -> C:r) 00:21:47 always defects: fix (\r -> D:r) 00:21:53 tit for tat: (\opp -> C:opp) 00:22:04 Have you played a game "Elemental Solitaire"? It has four elements (the four suits of the cards), but I want to figure out a way to make it work with five elements, do you know? 00:22:21 I haven't. 00:22:25 nope, sorry 00:22:54 coppro: BUT HAVE YOU PLAYED ITERATED PRISONER'S DILEMMA ...IN HASKELL 00:23:01 that seems dumb 00:23:12 http://quidjfravzgembtchowlkspynx.com/elemental/help.htm That's the Elemental solitaire rules 00:23:25 better challenge: calculate the odds that a game of Aces Up is winnable 00:24:37 coppro: you're dumb 00:24:45 It is already called ngIRCd, I want this one called a bit different, I will release the codes after I implement "ChannelTypes" option (currently it is hard-coded, and that is no good), and maybe "SummonType" and "SummonTimer", and SUMMON CTHULHU command, and possibly other fixes, and a document explaining the new features <-- what do you mean channel types? 00:24:52 to me there is only one tyle 00:24:54 AnMaster: # + & etc 00:24:54 type* 00:24:58 alise, well okay 00:25:06 but only ircnet uses it basically 00:25:07 zzo38 uses only + channels, modeless 00:25:10 Yes, # + & and so on. (ngIRCd does not support ! type channels) 00:25:28 does anything? 00:25:46 zzo38, so, why is it being hard coded an issue? isn't the logic for in which ways they differ going to have to be hard coded anyway 00:25:58 zzo38, either that or loading dynamically linked modules 00:25:58 someone register jackdawslovemybigsphinxofquartz.org 00:26:00 No, I mean which channel types are available to be used. 00:26:01 and have one page 00:26:02 saying 00:26:03 or *shudder* a scripting language 00:26:07 "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog." 00:26:08 and vice versa 00:26:20 zzo38, ah 00:26:35 alise, do it yourself 00:26:40 So, if you set ChannelTypes=#&+ then all three channel types are available, which would be the default. 00:26:47 AnMaster: no 00:27:06 (When ! type channels are supported, the default will be #&!+ instead) 00:29:33 on an unrelated note, holy shit I just won a game of Aces Up 00:29:48 coppro: With real cards or by computer? 00:29:58 computer 00:30:11 I've won 2 cardboard, 1 data games 00:30:19 coppro: Is using PySolFC? 00:30:22 no 00:30:32 no automatic assistance 00:31:06 -!- aoper has joined. 00:31:07 In PySolFC you can turn off automatic assistance for any game. PySolFC is slow to start up, however. 00:38:58 -!- kdvh has joined. 00:39:32 -!- kdvh has quit (Client Quit). 00:40:16 alise, why not? 00:40:35 I'm not a damn fool who would waste my money on such things! 00:40:54 alise, XD 00:41:02 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:42:47 Navigating dual screens with mouse keys is so tedious... 00:43:11 I suggest either abandoning dual screens or BUYING A MOUSE. 00:43:31 my mouse stopped working yesterday 00:43:43 haven't bought a new one yet >.< 00:49:52 Navigating dual screens with mouse keys is so tedious... <-- same goes for mouse keys on ONE screen 00:50:08 alise, I want a model M with a track point 00:50:16 AnMaster: they exist. 00:50:17 alas that doesn't exist afaik 00:50:23 alise, what? wow? 00:50:25 they have existed for a long time 00:50:28 both by ibm, and unicomp 00:50:41 apparently they're not quite as good as real trackpoints, but meh 00:50:42 alise, terminal edition? I want F24! 00:50:58 http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html the unicomp nipple model 00:51:08 AnMaster: ibm made pretty much every keyboard ever with a trackpoint 00:51:11 and a bad trackball 00:51:24 alise, I want a good trackpoint though 00:51:29 same as in modern thinkpads 00:51:36 the endurapro's is good, apparently. 00:51:43 they have better acceleration characteristics than older thinkpads 00:51:50 one of the things lenovo did right 00:52:50 alise, okay, now I want a space cadet keyboard with a trackpoint ;P 00:53:15 i'm a space cadet 00:53:17 which ones are those again 00:53:26 alise, LISP machines 00:54:03 alise, remember? 00:54:12 have () nonshifted and such 00:54:21 oh yeah those. 00:54:26 just buy a lisp machine 00:54:33 $600 or so for a vintage model (but still unused) 00:54:34 alise, but trackpoint? 00:54:36 up to like $1200 iirc 00:54:39 AnMaster: no. 00:54:41 but who cares 00:54:44 :/ 00:55:04 space cadet + track point + dvorak = big win 00:55:08 also = impossible 00:56:03 dudes 00:56:23 is there a language which has logic literals of 'Yes' and 'No' as opposed to the boring True/False? 00:56:30 prolog? sort of 00:56:33 just in the query output though 00:56:38 bah 00:58:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:59:08 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:02:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:02:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has left (?). 01:02:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:05:51 data Cool = Yes | No deriving (Show, Read, Enum, Bounded) 01:06:09 hm wait 01:06:18 data Cool = No | Yes deriving (Show, Read, Enum, Bounded) 01:08:04 lol 01:08:10 oerjan: WRITE A PRISONER 01:12:25 prisoner g p l = zipWith tweak (C:l) (randoms g) where tweak opp x | x > p = x; tweak C _ = D; tweak D _ = C 01:13:04 oerjan: erm 01:13:09 prisoner is [Action] -> [Action] 01:13:23 just select g and p 01:13:31 oerjan: to be what 01:14:01 g :: StdGen; p :: Double (preferrably slightly > 0) 01:14:06 also randoms doesn't seem to be in prelude... 01:14:17 System.Random 01:14:55 what is this strategy exactly? 01:15:02 is it tit-for-tat-except-maybe-kind-in-face-of-D? 01:15:25 yes + maybe-defect-in-face-of-C 01:15:32 Couldn't match expected type `Double' 01:15:32 against inferred type `Action' 01:15:32 In the expression: D 01:15:32 In the definition of `tweak': tweak C _ = D 01:15:48 erm 01:16:00 *prisoner g p l = zipWith tweak (C:l) (randoms g) where tweak opp x | x > p = opp; tweak C _ = D; tweak D _ = C 01:16:57 mind if I call it indecisive? 01:17:00 or unsure, which do you think is better 01:17:04 (what do you MEAN i should test things?) 01:17:14 fickle 01:17:15 also what's the thing to create a stdgen from an int? 01:17:22 fickle is good 01:17:26 mkStdGen 01:18:17 p should be infinitesimal? 01:18:25 hmm no 01:18:27 just low 01:18:38 0.125? or more? 01:18:50 oerjan: & shouldn't it be Rational, not Double, really? 01:18:53 or does stdgen not do rational... 01:18:57 somewhere around 1/no. tries? 01:19:06 i don't think there's a Rational instance 01:19:16 alise, what do you know about PBF? 01:20:24 Sgeo_: a bit; why? 01:20:46 I wanted you to say something about the author stopping 01:20:57 Sgeo_: it's not stopped, just on a severely reduced schedule. 01:21:05 oerjan: i don't think you get to introspect the number of tries :P 01:21:19 *Main> result 10 titForTat (fickle (mkStdGen 42) (1/10)) 01:21:19 (27,32) 01:21:19 *Main> result 100 titForTarce code? 03:26:34 coppro: it did. it was published 03:26:38 lol 03:26:42 ^source 03:26:42 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 03:26:46 thanks 03:27:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night, and good luck). 03:27:38 That beard is awesome, but impractical. 03:28:14 alise, ok jus thot u mite b a bit slpy 03:28:25 cheater99: Please die. 03:29:25 :< 03:29:29 I'd sleep, but on the other hand that would result in me not being on this thing until Friday, so if I can prolong it a bit longer I might as well. Hmm, how long until I have to be up. Six hours. 03:29:56 what thing? 03:30:00 and why until friday? 03:30:04 Forget sleeping then. It is what I am doing. 03:36:45 -!- calamari has joined. 03:38:02 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:40:58 this thing = computer 03:41:06 until friday = if you don't know, then you haven't been paying attention. 03:41:22 actually if you could all make it a running gag not to tell cheater99 while i'm gone that would be gerat. 03:41:24 *great 03:41:26 i'm going soon 03:42:47 i hadn't 03:42:51 SO KILL ME 03:43:08 ok so you mean that place you're goin' to 03:43:18 i remember now 03:43:24 don't worry WERE WITH U 03:43:24 <3 03:44:43 You do realise you're incredibly irritating? 03:44:57 I mean, and I'm saying that; I'm probably the most irritating person here. Well, second most. 03:44:59 *second-most 03:45:37 "It's still dark outside, so of course I won't sleep." 03:51:42 why? 03:51:45 i meant what i said 03:51:54 don't be so uppity 03:51:55 Well, that doesn't stop you being irritating. 03:52:15 why 03:52:53 Because it doesn't. 03:56:03 why are you saying i am irritating 03:56:26 Because you are! 04:00:11 why do you think that 04:00:45 >.< 04:06:55 4:06; ok, really soon. 04:06:58 *okay 04:10:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:12:09 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:14:02 ok alise 04:14:02 either way 04:14:02 you might hate me 04:14:02 but still, stay safe sweetie 04:14:03 ttyl <3 04:16:25 -!- name_ has quit (Quit: .). 04:28:19 Do you know now how I could make Elemental solitaire with five elements, somehow? 04:28:24 Do you have any ideas? 04:30:09 What does Elemental Solitaire with four elements look like? 04:32:33 anyone have a passing interest in logic? 04:32:38 and proof systems 04:32:50 The elements are the four suits of cards. There is a 4x4 grid with the corners cut off, there is 12 piles 4 card each, and 4 spares. 04:33:20 * Sgeo_ has a bit of a headache due to dealing with his step-mother :( 04:33:41 There is rules about geometry, are "blocks" (2x2 area of 4 piles), "crosses" (one card on each point of the cross, and inside is the center area), "extremities" 04:34:02 And then you win once all cards are removed according to blocks of 4 cards all different suit. 04:37:43 I thought of another idea in ngIRCd, the configuration for each remote server should also have a "ChannelTypes" option, to set which channel types are allowed to be forwarded/checked on another server (for example, irc.barton.de supports #&+ but irc.farlight.eu supports # only) (& type should never be forwarded, so the default should be #+ (or #!+ if ! type is implemented)) 04:37:49 -!- coppro has joined. 04:38:32 Here is an example of what can go wrong: 04:38:41 >JOIN +test 04:38:45 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :+test 04:38:49 :irc.bit.netz 353 zzo38 = +test :zzo38 04:38:54 :irc.bit.netz 366 zzo38 +test :End of NAMES list 04:38:58 :irc.farlight.eu 403 zzo38 +test :No such channel 04:39:10 See> 04:39:13 See? 04:43:13 I think the router should be configured using FTP, using any other protocol is not as good, in my opinion 04:59:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:12:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:32:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:12:39 servers in the same network shouldn't operate with different option sets anyway 06:12:51 also +channels are the most useless thing ever 06:13:22 +channel? 06:13:25 modeless 06:13:34 +chans are a modeless global channel 06:13:41 i never did understand the point 06:14:41 Anarchy! 06:14:50 more like get flooded and can't protect yourself 06:15:00 modeless means no +n, too 06:21:04 hmm wtf 06:21:12 whoops, wrong channel, you don't care about my tetris! 06:22:45 If it's turing-complete, we do 06:24:56 sadly, Sgeo_'s probably right 06:25:26 we'd care about a turing-complete pencil 06:28:06 What's the most powerful a language that only had one way to accomplish any task could be? 06:28:42 depends on what your definition of "one way to accomplish any task" is 06:31:46 what about Brainfuck? 06:32:49 or Rule 110? 06:37:03 myndzi: Actually, modeless means the mode is fixed at +nt 06:38:07 I don't know if a language with only one way to accomplish a task could be turing-complete 06:39:29 zzo38, it wouldn't be 06:40:58 It probably cannot possibly be turing-complete! 06:41:13 if you define "only one way to accomplish a task" as being something like "exactly one input per output", then it cannot possibly be turing-complete 06:41:17 Unless you change the question somewhat, then perhaps there might be some way 06:43:18 And the reason the servers in the same network do not all support the same channel types is because irc.farlight.eu is running a old version of ngIRCd (I checked) 07:03:08 -!- tombom has joined. 07:08:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:14:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:18:12 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:20:59 -!- ski has joined. 07:22:42 * ski carefully looks around, to see if there's any danger present 07:31:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:37:08 -!- coppro has changed nick to scshunt. 07:37:22 -!- scshunt has changed nick to coppro. 07:37:48 -!- coppro has changed nick to schunt. 07:37:53 -!- schunt has changed nick to coppro. 07:42:11 -!- MizardX has joined. 07:52:06 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:56:28 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:13:09 -!- lament has joined. 08:32:25 ironing out inconsistencies is a pain 08:41:03 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 09:11:00 -!- name_ has joined. 09:11:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:17:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:19:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:19:14 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:54:52 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:57:58 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:58:50 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:04:01 -!- MizardX- has joined. 10:07:57 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:08:00 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 11:02:24 -!- name_ has quit. 11:10:54 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:44:50 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:48:19 -!- jcp has joined. 11:49:51 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:50:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:56:28 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:01:20 hmm, I seem to be trying to middle-click by holding down one left mouse button and pressing a different left mouse button 12:01:25 the dangers of trackpads... 12:01:34 (what I /meant/ to try to do was control-click) 12:06:33 lol apple 12:23:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:29:51 -!- cal153 has joined. 12:33:26 gah, leftclick/leftclick again 12:33:30 and it isn't a lol apple, this is a PC 12:33:33 and has a rightclick too 12:33:41 it's just, the trackpad doesn't have a middle button 12:33:43 and isn't multi-touch 12:33:51 so I have to control-click, or both-click, instead 12:34:11 both-clicking's really hard, and for some reason I keep using both left mouse buttons (the one on the trackpad and the one below) rather than control-clicking 12:34:25 -!- hiato has joined. 12:41:01 I kind of feel like devising an abstract algebra. 12:48:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:51:08 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:51:21 -!- MizardX has joined. 12:51:46 You do realise you're incredibly irritating? 12:52:02 you do realise you're incredibly irritable? (then, so am i) 12:52:26 -!- MizardX- has joined. 12:55:50 `addquote we'd care about a turing-complete pencil 12:55:50 Failed to clone the environment! 12:55:55 argh 12:56:25 -!- oerjan has set topic: we'd care about a turing-complete pencil | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 12:56:50 `quote 12:56:50 Failed to clone the environment! 12:56:57 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:57:24 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 12:59:39 I kind of feel like devising an abstract algebra. 12:59:59 they've all been invented already. probably. well, the simple ones. 13:00:19 * oerjan was reading about medial magmas/groupoids recently 13:01:13 one operator (call it *), fundamental equation: (a*b)*(c*d) = (a*c)*(b*d) 13:02:43 hmm, post on rgrn 13:02:45 surprisingly, there are interesting consequences. if * is surjective, then it's essentially a kind of linear function, and all linear functions of two variables have this property. 13:02:49 umm, ali 13:03:00 two newsgroups which probably have more of an overlap than they ought to 13:03:11 but a post on rgrn is not surprising, and a post on ali is 13:03:19 it was asking about how to implement the factory and singleton patterns in INTERCAL 13:03:24 (the former is a very deep theorem, i'd have had to read the whole book to understand it, so i didn't.) 13:03:47 ais523: What kind of an overlap? 13:04:10 Deewiant: well, anything other than the null set, given that by rights a.l.i's readership /should/ be the null set 13:04:26 ais523: rec.games.something? 13:04:35 rec.games.roguelike.nethack 13:04:40 ah 13:05:03 Are you sure the overlap /isn't/ the null set? 13:05:22 Deewiant: ais523 is on both, obviously... 13:05:47 Ah, I was thinking of only posts as overlaps 13:05:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:05:59 and the number of NetHack players who are aware of INTERCAL is actually large enough that I don't know the number offhand 13:06:05 although I'm not sure how many of them also use Usenet 13:06:11 Deewiant: I've posted to both 13:06:17 But the same thing? 13:06:27 no, I can't think of a way to crosspost that wouldn't be trolling 13:06:34 unless and until I manage to port NetHack to INTERCAL 13:06:39 Right. That's the kind of overlap I was thinking of 13:06:40 which likely won't happen for years 13:06:42 ais523: or vice versa 13:06:54 jamesstanley: I'm not entirely sure if the vice versa makes sense 13:06:55 Or that first came to mind given newsgroup overlap 13:07:03 implementing intercal in nethack? of course it does 13:07:03 NetHack is not Dwarf Fortress, after all 13:07:16 I don't think NetHack is TC, or even usable for programming 13:07:29 you might be able to manipulate monster ai for turing completeness 13:07:31 Sokoban is PSPACE-complete 13:08:20 Deewiant: and TC if generalised to an infinite plane 13:08:33 heh 13:09:51 xkcd XD 13:20:11 -!- name_ has joined. 13:20:29 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:23:19 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:35:00 I want to make bitchin' mathematic programming language. 13:35:06 +a 13:35:13 with all the usual bitchin' mathematical things. 13:58:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:01:11 -!- mr45 has joined. 14:39:51 -!- cal153 has joined. 14:53:57 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:54:18 CakeProphet: make a programming language where you literally do write the question instead of the answer. 14:54:34 Like so: 14:55:21 IsPrime x = NotExists (\y -> 0 < y && y < x && x `mod` y == 0) 14:55:38 Er, `Mod`, since we're using my silly convention. 14:57:46 boring 15:00:13 -!- Leonidas has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:00:28 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: school time). 15:01:04 -!- Leonidas has joined. 15:06:51 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit). 15:15:58 uorygl: Been done, the result was Prolog 15:17:18 I don't think Prolog is very powerful. 15:17:45 (Which is a tentative conclusion, not an opinion.) 15:20:26 * CakeProphet is still designing a tree language. getting closer to finish. 15:21:39 technically a graph language... for control flow. 15:21:46 Finnish is the best language for trees to speak. 15:22:26 :P 15:24:11 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:35:19 Looks like #esoteric is still the most Finnish channel I have. :P 15:35:24 ...just came up with a single syntax 15:35:30 So, terve, mitä kuuluu? 15:35:41 node-data { inner-node-data ; inner-node-data} 15:36:06 { creates a new child node at the current node... ; creates a new sibling 15:36:41 {1;2;3;4;5;6} to represent a simple list 4{ 2; 4 {1;2;3}} for trees 15:36:58 + {1;2;!} 15:37:05 is a program expression 15:37:21 ...I might change ; to , ...no need to type shift all the time 15:37:50 and ( can just be ) actually just use spaces instead of , HOLY SHIT ITS TREE-LISP 15:38:29 Hey, you're using a keyboard layout in which you need to press shift to type ;. 15:38:48 ...oh, wait, no I'm not. 15:39:06 dunno why I thought that. 15:39:47 actually spaces don't sit well with me for this syntax... since each branch node can have its own atom as well as a child list. 15:40:03 so whitespace independence would be nice to allow any kind of structuring. 15:41:43 +(1,-(2,3,!),!) 15:41:50 might have some sugar for that ! 15:43:05 use a different bracket style for implicit !age 15:46:05 -!- name_ has quit. 15:51:12 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:37 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:06:38 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:20:31 Finnish is the best language for trees to speak. <-- yeah but it is unfit for a human mouth ;P 16:20:32 * AnMaster runs 16:20:49 though, to be fair, Icelandic seems worse 16:21:45 Yeah, I've heard that Icelandic is really difficult. 16:22:29 To pronounce? How's that? 16:28:39 -!- cheater99 has joined. 16:31:20 Huh, Icelandic is a West Scandinavian language. 16:32:44 Wow, Icelandic does have quite the array of consonants. 16:32:55 Isn't Czech far worse 16:32:57 The vowels aren't too bad. 16:33:33 Hm, Czech's consonants look pretty manageable. 16:34:08 Icelandic's consonants look only somewhat manageable. 16:34:18 How's that 16:35:17 Well, it has a bunch of consonants that I can't even name. 16:35:21 Icelandic, I mean. 16:35:49 Though, actually, I guess that little ring thingy just means "voiceless". 16:36:26 Okay, now Icelandic looks very manageable. 16:36:39 :-P 16:38:49 -!- lament has joined. 16:40:55 gucharmap's character info screen for U+037C CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA WITH TITLO: "Notes: despite its name, this character does not have a titlo, nor is it composed of an omega plus a diacritic". 16:43:05 :-D 16:43:11 Excellent 16:44:06 That's because U+037C is GREEK SMALL DOTTED LUNATE SIGMA SYMBOL. 16:44:25 That was just a typo. 16:44:33 U+047C is what I meant to write. 16:44:46 Mm. 16:45:05 Well, that sure looks like an omega with a titlo. 16:46:00 But indeed. 16:46:41 At least in my font Ѽ is rendered as a rather silly wide omegay thing, and then two other diacritics (combining cyrillic palatalization, combining cyrillirc psili pneumata; I have no idea what they're for) instead of the Òƒ titlo one. 16:47:04 "cyrillirc". 16:47:31 Hm, it seems that in all my fonts as well as fileformat.info, it is displayed as an omega with a titlo. 16:47:57 With that sort of name... 16:48:09 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:48:29 Mmkay, I think this is the official definition of U+047C: 16:48:38 http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0400.pdf has it close to what I see in gucharmap. 16:48:54 (It also has the same note.) 16:49:12 = Cyrillic "beautiful omega". * despite its name, this character does not have a titlo, nor is it composed of an omega plus a diacritic. -> A64C Ꙍ cyrillic capital letter broad omega 16:54:35 I just realised that the OS I use on my RCX is in many respects way more advanced than DOS. For example it does multiple threads (cooperative multitasking due to preemptive (as it used to be) having a rather annoyingly large overhead) 16:55:31 and it has POSIX-like semaphores, stripped to the core features, but stilll 16:55:37 still* 16:56:44 bbl 16:57:23 * uorygl downloads the Unicode Standard. 17:00:29 Apparently, it's a 686-page PDF document. 17:02:18 Heh, look at what U+FE18 is called. 17:02:29 brakcet 17:02:34 :) 17:02:38 "PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET", to be precise. 17:02:46 Sigh 17:07:02 Hrm, my private use area according to gucharmap is full of stuff (since it picks characters from any font that has 'em); there's the Linux penguin, some sort of random bat, a sword-like diagonal arrow, someone's face, a whole pile of outlined symbols, sub- and superscripts for all cyrillic characters, etc. 17:08:06 Gregor, why is your face in fizzie's Unicode? 17:08:25 If it's Gregor's face, he looks pretty girly. 17:08:45 He does look pretty girly! 17:09:49 http://zem.fi/~fis/face.png -- this girly? 17:10:06 Hm, no, not quite that girly. 17:10:29 * uorygl begins poking around zem.fi. 17:10:37 There's not much there. 17:10:40 I want a three-letter Finnish domain name. 17:11:00 (At least officially) you need to be Finnish, then. 17:11:13 Or a corporation with an office here, or some-such. 17:11:23 I will move to Finland, then. 17:12:48 * uorygl flexes his fingers. 17:15:44 Hm, domain names like "www.okie.fi" look really lopsided. 17:16:11 * uorygl joins the Suomen nowwwpuolue. 17:16:12 -!- jabb_work has joined. 17:16:38 -!- relet has joined. 17:22:47 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:24:16 "PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET", to be precise. <-- what? 17:24:26 That's the name of a Unicode character. 17:24:42 uorygl, "white"? I didn't know unicode had colour info... 17:24:53 it doesn't make sense for it to have that 17:25:06 Well, I imagine it's "white" in the sense of "the same color as the background". 17:25:26 uorygl, so, it is a strange name for a space? ;P 17:25:39 No, it's outlined. :) 17:25:49 hm should be called "outlined" or such then 17:25:49 In black! 17:26:05 * uorygl shrugs. 17:28:44 Let's see, I know enough Finnish to sort of ask a simple question. 17:30:17 fizzie, olet Suomen? 17:30:22 I'm sure that was close enough. :P 17:30:30 "You're Finland's?" 17:30:45 Maybe it wasn't close enough. :P 17:31:17 My intended meaning was "Are you Finnish?" 17:31:37 (Though I would be quite surprised if e turned out not to be.) 17:31:46 Also, lacks the interrogative suffix on the "olet" to be completely correct for even that ;-P 17:32:02 Interrogative suffix? Huh. 17:32:06 But, in colloquial speech it's often dropped 17:32:29 Yes, it should be "oletko" to make it a question; with just "olet" it's a statement: "you are Finnish". 17:32:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_grammar#Interrogatives_.28questions.29 17:32:44 A statement with a question mark at the end. :) 17:32:58 And apparently "Suomen" wasn't quite the right word either. 17:33:09 It's "Suomalainen" 17:33:30 Isn't it "suomalainen"? I don't think we capitalize it when it's a nationality or a language. 17:33:30 isn't soumi = finland? 17:33:45 Right, we don't. 17:33:55 AnMaster: Modulo letter order, yes. 17:34:00 Deewiant, ah 17:34:28 Suomalainen. I should probably make note of that. 17:35:25 x-lainen (/x-läinen) ~= from x 17:35:36 The non-capitalization exception is something I don't much like. 17:35:46 Ditto 17:36:20 I like not capitalizing stuff! 17:36:36 But, eh. 17:36:59 It's just that we capitalize countries (like "Suomi") but not languages (which would be "suomi"). 17:37:07 * uorygl nods. 17:37:28 There's also the verb "suomia": to whip, lash, (figuratively) scold. 17:37:53 (Of which "suomi" would be the third-person singular past tense case. 17:38:01 Cognate to "suomustaa"? 17:38:20 What's the Finnish word for "whiplash"? :P 17:38:38 For the literal lash of a whip, piiskanisku 17:38:58 Deewiant: Perhaps. fi.wiktionary says "(murteellinen?) suomustaa; etymologinen perusta edelliselle??" but those multiple question marks make me a bit unsure. 17:39:06 heh 17:39:24 Rakastan sinua. 17:39:40 Unfortunately, I can't really tell which word is which in that sentence. 17:40:15 Mmkay, Wiktionary says that "rakastaa" takes the partitive. 17:40:30 -!- tombom has joined. 17:40:43 I wonder why it does that. :P 17:40:56 To be more precise, "suomi" is the third-person singular preterite active indicative of "suomia" 17:42:42 * uorygl thinks. 17:42:50 * uorygl looks up the Finnish word for "thinks". 17:43:02 uorygl: "Rakastaa" is atelic 17:43:19 As is "to love", I suppose 17:43:30 That doesn't have anything to do with philately, does it. 17:43:40 ais523, wtf at that recent message on a.l.i 17:43:44 Not to my knowledge 17:44:18 "I loved you in a day." "I loved you for a day." 17:44:27 did you see my reply? 17:44:28 I guess so. 17:44:30 did you follow the link? 17:44:35 ais523, yes and yes 17:44:50 ais523, even more wtf from those 17:45:03 Hm, it sort of looks like "ajatella" is conjugated as if it were "ajattelea". 17:45:21 * uorygl ajattelee. 17:45:52 ais523, well the link that is, your response wasn't very wtf 17:46:20 Troll much? :-D 17:47:06 ais523, but I think you missed a comma in one place 17:47:22 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:47:28 AnMaster: Where 17:47:36 Deewiant: alt.lang.intercal 17:47:42 ais523: The comma, I meant 17:47:44 well, I'm having problems parsing "[...]; those who have tried to imply the way I think from the way I write code, possibly a null set, would know that I consider multithreading the answer to more or less every problem INTERCAL offers" 17:47:55 AnMaster: I can parse that just fine 17:47:59 As can I 17:48:01 hm 17:48:35 Although that "possibly a null set" is a bit confusingly placed. But I'm not sure if there's a better place. 17:48:56 meh, I was thinking INTERCAL, so long as it's theoretically grammatically correct it's fine 17:48:56 yes perhaps 17:49:12 Deewiant, I presume he means that "those who have tried to imply" is a null set 17:49:17 AnMaster: yeah, that was difficult to parse. 17:49:18 Yep 17:49:25 imply what? 17:49:28 I suspect that by "imply" he means "infer". 17:49:33 Yep 17:49:44 uorygl, ah, okay that makes a quite a lot more sense 17:49:47 meh, it's more fun for me to attribute other people to attribute motives to me 17:50:05 I find it strange that people get "imply" and "infer" mixed up. Don't they mean totally different things? 17:50:17 Not totally, but fairly 17:50:25 uorygl, both are verbs. 17:50:27 ;P 17:50:31 but yeah quite different afaik 17:50:37 Implying is saying something indirectly, or having something as a conclusion. Inferring is coming to a conclusion. 17:50:52 Yeah, I guess they're both I5 verbs. :) 17:51:28 uorygl, I5? 17:51:38 oh letter count 17:51:39 start with I and have 5 letters 17:51:40 hm 17:51:44 What he said. 17:52:17 anyway, I kind of can't see how you could mix up their meaning 17:52:49 it's almost an opposite meaning 17:52:51 ais523, "[...] and multiple COME FROM having too much [state]"? 17:53:15 AnMaster: it's an INTERCAL thing 17:53:18 ais523, how do you mean too much state? 17:53:39 AnMaster: no shared state 17:53:41 or very little 17:53:48 all shared state is global, you can't share pairwise 17:54:04 ais523, hm, creating statements on demand, does that imply JITing? 17:54:10 Wait, why does "ajatella" have thirteen synonyms? 17:54:16 err s/on demand/at runtime/ 17:54:20 which is what it seems like 17:54:33 AnMaster: no, think of it more like thunks 17:54:39 uorygl, what does it mean? 17:54:49 "To think". 17:55:04 uorygl: "think" has fourteen 17:55:09 Well, I guess it's transitive. 17:55:11 According to Wiktionary, anyways 17:55:28 ais523, um? was ages ago I heard about "thunks" last, and it was something related to windows 3.1 iirc 17:55:29 I count thirteen, not counting "ajatella" itself. 17:55:36 so I have no clue what you meant there 17:55:51 AnMaster: closures with no params 17:55:53 And at least most of the Finnish ones are just different forms of each other 17:56:02 ah 17:56:17 ajatella/aatella, fundeerata/funtsata/funtsia, pohtia/pohdiskella, pähkiä/pähkäillä, tuumailla/tuumata/tuumia/tuumiskella 17:56:51 Huh. So that makes more like five. 17:56:55 That list is missing "puntaroida" 17:57:30 But they don't include "harkita" either so maybe that's intentional 17:57:43 Nah, add them. :) 17:58:11 Nah, it's probably intentional 17:58:47 Although "pähkäillä" probably shouldn't be there either if that's the case... but whatever 17:58:53 ais523, btw you should write a C->INTERCAL compiler 17:59:08 What do you think the reason is? 17:59:20 ais523, after you finish feather and gcc-bf that is ;P 18:00:21 uorygl: Well, it's sort of "think" versus "consider" 18:01:04 ("consider" as in "mull over", can't think of a better synonym) 18:02:55 Drat, Wiktionary doesn't list the declension of "aihe". 18:04:37 This type, I think: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Finnish_declension_types/hame 18:05:38 So the partitive singular is "aihetta"? 18:05:45 Yep 18:08:17 * uorygl ajattelee aihetta. 18:09:49 I think "ajatella" is more "think of" than "think about", actually 18:09:53 But I'm not sure 18:09:54 Oh? 18:10:10 Or, well, I'm pretty sure it's /more/ that but it might still be both 18:10:54 * uorygl ajattelee seuraavaa aihetta? 18:13:13 Bah, I dunno 18:13:19 I'm all confused now 18:13:48 Maybe it's just that I don't like using "ajatella" with "aihe" for some reason 18:15:05 Elämä on hyvä. 18:16:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:17:16 Not sure if that's wrong or if it just sounds wrong :-P 18:17:46 "Elämä on hyvä" sounds wrong, too? 18:18:00 It sounds wrong but it could just be because it's the obvious anglicism 18:18:10 Elämä ön hyvä. :P 18:18:16 It's not something anybody would ever say 18:18:21 * uorygl nods. 18:18:33 Except for beginning speakers of Finnish, I guess! 18:18:45 That's not in my definition of "anybody" 18:18:55 I have been asked to build a robot with Mindstorms for "work" "experience". 18:19:22 Pointti. 18:20:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:21:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:55 Ultimately it has to be able to take commands to navigate through a maze from Bluetooth. 18:30:29 Well, from what little I've learned so far of Finnish, I'm struck by how similar it is to English. 18:32:24 It has more or less the same parts of speech, and the words go in more or less the same order. 18:32:36 The word order is more or less arbitrary 18:33:06 That too. :) 18:34:26 Not really the case in English :-P 18:34:35 Right. 18:35:47 -!- Vegabondmx has joined. 18:36:00 -!- augur has joined. 18:36:11 Of course, I can also use Spanish as a point of comparison. 18:38:12 As far as language evolution goes, English and Spanish are of course more closely related than either is to Finnish. 18:38:30 But as far as grammar goes, all three seem pretty similar. 19:24:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:43:44 -!- augur has joined. 19:45:23 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:51:00 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:55:45 -!- MizardX has joined. 19:56:51 Do we hate Java here? 19:57:40 @Override protected void map(LongWritable l, Text t, Mapper.Context context) throws IOException, InterruptedException { 19:58:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:16 Deewiant, explain. 19:58:21 -!- augur has joined. 19:58:27 Java 19:58:31 Verbosity 19:58:34 HAET 19:58:35 What does it do? 19:58:45 It's the equivalent of 'map =' in Haskell 19:58:49 You can be verbose in everything. 19:58:56 But that seems extreme. 19:59:19 That's a method definition minus a body and closing } 19:59:45 Deewiant: what's 'map =' do? 19:59:59 It's a function definition minus a body 20:00:21 what 20:00:29 oh i see 20:00:39 map = ... 20:01:13 That was Hadoop, not Java; but Java things in general do seem to end up looking like that, it's true. 20:01:57 Hadoop is Java 20:02:08 Well, yes, but Java is not Hadoop. 20:02:33 You can't just pick the interface of a single... I guess they call it a "framework", and say all Java's like that. 20:02:46 Fortunately, I didn't 20:03:05 But Java hate was being coaxed so I somewhat-delivered 20:06:21 It is reasonably representative of Java, I guess. The officially-part-of-the-language library isn't much less verbosity-demanding. 20:06:55 AffineTransformOp op = new AffineTransformOp(AffineTransform.getScaleInstance(scaleX, scaleY), AffineTransformOp.TYPE_BILINEAR); 20:08:46 ColorModel cm = base.getColorModel(); BufferedImage composite = new BufferedImage(cm, base.copyData(cm.createCompatibleWritableRaster(w, h)), cm.isAlphaPremultiplied(), null); composite.createGraphics().drawImage(tile, op, 0, 0); 20:08:56 -!- P4 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:08:57 They do like long names there. 20:13:55 -!- mr45 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:16:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:22:34 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:26 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 20:35:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:36:29 -!- jabb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:36:30 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 20:40:01 Hm, Czech's consonants look pretty manageable. <-- until you realize some of them (r,l) are also used as vowels. also, r-hacek. 20:41:24 (the latter being a sound existing _only_ in czech) 20:42:38 "Used as vowels"? 20:43:03 (it was listed (may still be) in guinness book of records as the world's rarest sound. 20:43:06 ) 20:43:40 (although i've learned the swedish sje-sound is also only in one language, there might be others for what i know) 20:44:14 (the swedish sje-sound is much simpler to pronounce though, imo) 20:44:33 Deewiant: cz:vlk = en:wolf, for example 20:45:06 Sure, there are vowelless words, but how does that make those "used as vowels"? 20:45:26 Well, used as syllable nuclei. 20:45:33 there are some famous tongue-twisters which my non-unicode clean irc setup cannot manage 20:45:45 Right 20:45:59 Japanese has an n-syllable which I find annoying for no good reason 20:47:05 But anyway, I don't find that makes them less manageable 20:47:40 anyway, there's _still_ r-hacek >:) 20:48:49 Yeah, raised alveolar non-sonorant trill 20:49:30 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:49:47 I wonder what it means by having the tongue raised when it's alveolar anyway 20:50:20 i think it may be that it's not made with just the tip of the tongue, iirc 20:50:43 http://www.wellnowwhat.net/blog/?p=394 20:50:54 or wait does that make any sense 20:51:11 -!- kdvh has joined. 20:52:28 augur: darn, i was hoping you were linking to a detailed explanation of how to pronounce r-hacek, there. you _are_ the resident linguist after all. 20:52:33 augur: Alveolar trill: raised versus non-raised. Discuss! 20:53:02 arr-hatchek 20:53:28 my language has no trills natively therefore i have nothing to discuss 20:53:45 Alveolar x, for any x: raised versus non-raised. Discuss! 20:58:19 Or don't. Meh. 21:06:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: Don't let the name fool you, this is a linguistics channel | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 21:07:24 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 21:07:45 `help 21:07:45 Failed to clone the environment! 21:14:13 `ls 21:14:13 Failed to clone the environment! 21:14:20 Who broke HackEgo? 21:14:25 alise 21:14:28 I think 21:14:35 I, said the sparrow 21:16:51 -!- Oranjer has joined. 21:17:53 -!- kdvh has left (?). 21:24:20 How is it broken? 21:24:23 `ls 21:24:23 Failed to clone the environment! 21:25:07 it's a bit single-minded at the moment 21:25:35 `revert 21:25:35 Failed to clone the environment! 21:27:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:16 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:29:20 hi cpressey 21:30:13 What ho, oerjan! 21:31:19 I come to announce Burro 2.0: http://catseye.tc/projects/burro/doc/burro.html 21:31:27 I was hoping scarf would be here, but oh well. 21:31:45 scarf = ais523 these days 21:31:55 but still not here, anyway 21:33:43 Missed him by threeish hours 21:34:44 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:35:00 Well, if you see him before I do, let him know that his offhand observation that Burro was broken, resulted in months of work for me fixing it :) 21:35:09 -!- ineiros has joined. 21:35:15 Not actual full months -- spare-time-months, of course 21:43:30 cpressey, you're the guy who runs Cat's Eye? 21:43:40 Yes 21:44:20 Phantom_Hoover: Depends -- are you a debt collector? :D 21:44:32 :-D 21:44:32 Yes. 21:44:58 I plan to use the Spanish method I heard about from a dubious source. 21:45:25 I will wear a silly hat and frock coat, then follow you into restaurants and cafés and point. 21:45:40 I didn't expect that. 21:48:01 >_> 21:52:56 cpressey, NO-ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH DEBT COLLECTORS! 21:55:44 * oerjan expected that 21:56:38 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:57:18 Q: What's a Haskell programmer's favorite philosophy book 21:57:27 A: Leibniz's Monadology 21:57:27 :D 22:10:01 AnMaster, you there? 22:10:57 idle : 0 days 4 hours 11 mins 22 secs 22:12:00 also away : eating 22:14:47 He should not need to eat for 4 hours. 22:16:33 it's not good to eat too fast, you know :D 22:20:43 Phantom_Hoover, hi 22:21:00 forgot to /unaway 22:21:07 Phantom_Hoover, it took 10 minutes to eat ;P 22:21:45 THAT'S TOO FAST 22:21:50 I don't suppose you know anything about Mindstorms NXT? 22:22:14 it's 32-bit, CPU is ARM (ARM7 iirc, not sure) 22:22:15 i hear you should use at least 15 minutes or so 22:22:22 Phantom_Hoover, and the motor has a very awkward shape 22:22:29 Phantom_Hoover, that is about all 22:22:41 Bah. 22:22:57 Phantom_Hoover, what? btw did you see the first panorama? 22:23:01 posted link yesterday 22:23:04 No. 22:23:05 and also photos of the bot 22:23:10 (otherwise you eat so fast that your fullness feeling doesn't get triggered until you've already overeaten) 22:23:15 Phantom_Hoover, well, you shouldn't be away for several days at a row 22:23:24 I wasn't here yesterday. 22:23:26 Phantom_Hoover, go dig logs, links will be at omploader 22:23:27 Anyway. 22:23:30 Phantom_Hoover, or day before that 22:23:42 when I posted images of the construction itself 22:24:15 Phantom_Hoover, also not being on irc for a long time is a major offence or something ;P 22:24:24 If this brakes my computer I will definitely need the soul of your first-born child. 22:24:35 Phantom_Hoover, open it in gimp 22:24:38 Phantom_Hoover, 53 MP 22:24:40 so yeah use gimp 22:24:48 you have been warned 22:24:52 if it actually _breaks_ it he'll take your whole family 22:25:04 FFX handles it fine, actually. 22:25:06 Strange. 22:25:15 O god, a spelling error" 22:25:16 Phantom_Hoover, yep, the issue was on your side last time too 22:25:24 Phantom_Hoover, what spelling error? 22:25:27 oh 22:25:28 right 22:25:29 brakes 22:25:30 hah 22:26:07 What do I do with all of these CTCPs? 22:26:41 I forgot if you used windows or not :P 22:26:54 I do not. 22:30:33 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:34:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:34:35 OK, must sleep. 22:34:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:37:06 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:43:33 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:40 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:27:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:27:59 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:34:28 -!- cpressey has left (?). 23:55:27 -!- coppro has joined. 23:59:18 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).