00:00:06 It's a complete accident that this is so, in fact. 00:00:07 maedhros777: btw possibly the simplest TC model on the wiki is BCT, it's almost ridiculously simple 00:00:34 pikhq_, saying it is "equivalent to the lambda calculus" would also mean it is equivalent to bf 00:00:39 well wait 00:00:41 no byte IO 00:00:42 so no 00:00:48 if you find brainfuck too hard to implement, that's a good alternative candidate 00:00:48 but equivalent to P'' 00:00:49 at least 00:00:56 also combinatory logic 00:01:06 AnMaster: It's equivalent to the lambda calculus with a trivial isomorphism. 00:01:16 oerjan, what about the 2,3 thingy ais523 proved TC by using BCT? 00:01:25 isn't it very simple too? 00:01:33 pikhq_, ah 00:01:49 AnMaster: yes but that has the _extremely_ thorny issue of infinite setup and no halting concept 00:01:49 pikhq_, what makes an isomorphism trivial btw? 00:01:59 AnMaster: About on par with sed. 00:02:02 which makes it very hard to use for esolangs, i think 00:02:04 Oh, wait. 00:02:08 AnMaster: BCT is simpler 00:02:08 Sed is TC. Never mind. 00:02:09 :P 00:02:10 that's why I used it 00:02:14 well, cyclic tag in general 00:02:17 BCT's just a notation for it 00:02:24 AnMaster: A bunch of s/// statements manage the compilation. 00:02:41 pikhq_, as the general intelligence increase (but not IQ!), wouldn't the level of "trivial" change? 00:02:58 That's not what trivial means. :) 00:02:59 say, 20 million years from now 00:03:07 other things would be considered trivial 00:03:25 pikhq_: /// statements are TC too ;D 00:03:40 oerjan: *Gah* string rewriting. Right. 00:03:45 oerjan, not sed s/// I think 00:03:48 since it isn't recursive 00:03:50 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:03:50 like /// is 00:03:59 possibly 00:04:11 oerjan, didn't you prove /// TC using BCT? 00:04:16 AnMaster: yes 00:04:23 oerjan, also, how was BCT proved TC? 00:04:29 Hmm. String rewriting makes it so that Tcl is Turing-complete even without any commands defined. 00:04:32 How amusing. 00:04:40 AnMaster: i don't recall 00:04:42 pikhq_, really? heh 00:05:25 pikhq_, write a formal proof of it 00:05:31 Never! 00:05:35 ais523, is INTERCAL TC? 00:05:37 pikhq_, oh? 00:05:49 I don't want to wrangle the dodecalogue into TC-ness. :( 00:05:54 AnMaster: easily 00:05:56 pikhq_, the what? 00:06:02 ais523, doesn't it have limited state? 00:06:10 The 12 rules that describe all of Tcl's syntax and semantics. 00:06:13 no, it has loads of unbounded stack 00:06:15 *stacks 00:06:18 and you only need 2 00:06:19 pikhq_, meh 00:06:25 (aside from the normally-provided commands) 00:06:34 AnMaster: each variable has a RESTORE [iirc] stack 00:06:34 ais523, ah, but what about INTERCAL-72? 00:06:56 even INTERCAL-72 00:06:59 oerjan: you mean STASH stack 00:06:59 ah I see 00:07:05 ais523: right 00:07:11 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 00:07:12 STASH/RETRIEVE 00:07:16 normally just called "a stash" 00:07:31 ais523, btw alise wrote what was probably a J/INTERCAL polygot recently 00:07:48 wow, what a random language combo 00:07:52 ais523, should check logs to see if it works from the intercal side 00:08:09 ais523, no it wasn't. It was that J comments are: NB. 00:08:16 that is NB period, not just NB 00:08:20 I mean, thinking of that combo 00:08:31 ais523, and I commented on "DO NOT NOTA BENE" or such 00:08:32 you'd have to start DO or PLEASE to stop the INTERCAL erroring out immediately, though 00:08:33 -!- sshc has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:08:36 and one thing led to another 00:09:02 ah 00:09:08 ais523, yes the first line defines DO NOT to be a NOP from the J side iirc 00:09:29 ais523, and then you basically do: DO NOT NB. PLEASE intercal code 00:09:38 ais523, or similar 00:10:03 * oerjan kept nagging about NB. PLEASE intercal DO NOT being simpler 00:10:11 ais523, and DO NOT NB. PLEASE ... of course 00:10:12 * pikhq_ wishes you could just do "DO NOT PLEASE" and screw up the politeness 00:10:32 oerjan, but that doesn't work? 00:10:46 AnMaster: it should 00:10:57 oerjan, how is NB. hidden from INTERCAL? 00:10:59 but somehow alise thought it ugly 00:11:13 AnMaster: by the DO NOT at the end of the previous line 00:11:14 AnMaster: by the DO NOT on the previous line 00:11:31 ah 00:11:32 right 00:11:39 oerjan, doesn't work for first line though 00:12:09 AnMaster: indeed but it starts DO NOT anyway, so it just needs to be a J almost-nop 00:12:26 right 00:12:41 also mouse pointer went spare for a bit 00:12:59 shuddering in a circle of about 10 pixels 00:13:24 AnMaster: probably an LHC black hole passing by 00:13:34 oerjan, XD 00:13:45 oerjan, it happened a few times before LHC anyway 00:13:58 but yeah time travel involved clearly 00:14:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_prime_prime 00:14:15 oerjan, anyway, I think it is due to some resolution issue on the surface 00:14:16 How does r ≡ λR work? 00:14:20 sure, everyone knows the LHC particles time travel 00:14:28 In relation to BF 00:15:00 eh? 00:15:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_prime_prime#Relation_to_other_programming_languages 00:15:28 hm 00:16:08 Wouldn't that just set the tape cell to the cell at its right? 00:16:31 I don't know P'', so couldn't say 00:16:44 maedhros777: r is equivalent to + 00:16:59 "# R means move the tape-head rightward one cell (if any). 00:16:59 # λ means replace the current symbol ai by ai+1 (taking an+1 = a0), and then move the tape-head leftward one cell." 00:17:11 But how would it work? 00:17:24 maedhros777, that looks like it does >+< 00:17:30 Yeah 00:17:34 That's what I thought 00:17:41 Oh :) 00:17:43 maedhros777, so do <>+< 00:17:43 no, +<> 00:17:48 oerjan, oh right 00:18:16 oerjan, hm so bf is an optimisation kind of XD 00:18:33 I could never have thought bf was optimised compared to anything 00:19:04 Wouldn't it be >[-<+>]> or something? 00:19:14 Disregarding that the next cell would become 0 00:19:35 -!- coppro has joined. 00:19:39 hm? 00:19:40 maedhros777: huh? 00:19:43 maedhros777, no oerjan is right 00:20:03 Wait...is ai+1 to the right or left? 00:20:19 maedhros777: it's the _value_ not the position 00:20:20 maedhros777, no ai + is current value incremented 00:20:32 s/+ // 00:21:01 s/incremented// 00:21:03 oerjan: But then you're just copying the value of the cell to the right to the current value, right? 00:21:11 maedhros777, nop, to same 00:21:21 ? 00:21:23 maedhros777: no, it's an increment at the current spot 00:21:29 OHH 00:21:32 I get it now :) 00:21:34 maedhros777, to move is *after* 00:21:36 the* 00:22:01 Why is it ai+1 instead of (ai) + 1? 00:22:01 yes it is a stupid instruction set in part :) 00:22:16 maedhros777, why would you need to put out () there? 00:22:26 because multiplication binds tighter than addition? 00:22:31 maedhros777: for some reason the symbols are called a_i rather than simply the number i 00:22:31 Because isn't ai+1 the next cell? 00:23:20 That's a weird notation 00:23:22 a_0 corresponds to the BF cell value 0, and says nothing about where it is 00:23:34 oerjan, wait it is a_{i+1} as written on wikipedia 00:23:39 which is somewhat strange 00:24:12 maedhros777: i suppose it's to make it mathematically general by not saying _what_ symbols you use, just their order 00:24:24 Ok 00:24:26 oerjan, see what I said, error on wikipedia? 00:24:32 link? 00:24:37 So would r` work by wrapping? 00:24:38 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:24:43 oh wait 00:24:43 oerjan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_prime_prime section " Semantics" 00:24:57 Oops, I meant r' not r` 00:25:41 AnMaster: the i+1 is an _index_. (a_i)_{i=0}^n is the sequence of symbols in the alphabet 00:26:12 oerjan, yes and it being i+1 as an index makes no sense 00:26:21 oerjan, oh wait 00:26:27 rihht 00:26:29 right* 00:26:34 it is in the alphabet 00:26:35 I see 00:26:40 Anyone know where the proof of P'' being Turing-complete is? 00:26:46 I don't see it 00:26:56 1. ^ Böhm, C.: "On a family of Turing machines and the related programming language", ICC Bull. 3, 185-194, July 1964. 00:26:56 2. ^ Böhm, C. and Jacopini, G.: "Flow diagrams, Turing machines and languages with only two formation rules", CACM 9(5), 1966. (Note: This is the most-cited paper on the structured program theorem.) 00:27:02 maedhros777, in one of those I presume 00:27:09 I don't have those books, though :) 00:27:13 maedhros777, nor do I 00:27:18 Or are they essays? 00:27:31 maedhros777, more likely articles than essays 00:27:37 Yeah, probably 00:27:45 I'm gonna google them 00:27:50 maedhros777, good luck 00:28:09 maedhros777, anyway, there is an UTM implemented directly in bf listed on the bf page on the esolang wiki 00:28:16 alternative proof 00:28:23 Ok, I'll take a look 00:29:15 Got it: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jsfWzj9RLwAJ:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.119.9119%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+Flow+diagrams,+Turing+machines+and+languages+with+only+two+formation+rules&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgh-bW5YldU2et4NaS9D0lJItEyRaiYO2N5lNEBi9jrYGjSm2xWqsjO48SCwjSFCQ52xGIp2ECu4jibe1UUwtPfd_DM_8XifhqQF4gLyrA58n62qOCiHwEHf963QyoVTFqjKCHS&sig=AHIEtbQNMV_kqHzz6ouESSojX5BgCg6aPg 00:29:20 Big URL :) 00:29:35 maedhros777: there seem to be no copies on Böhm's home page, so ... oh citeseer 00:29:39 Lots of lambda calculus though 00:29:58 -!- Tritonio_GR1 has joined. 00:29:59 Maybe I'll just look at the BF UTM implementation 00:30:00 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:30:23 maedhros777: BF is P'' prettified anyhow 00:31:11 i might even suspect Böhm constructed something more like BF first, and then made P'' by minimizing the symbols 00:31:31 Maybe 00:31:37 (well wikipedia almost implies as much) 00:32:58 maedhros777: also yeah r' wraps 00:33:19 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:34:02 oerjan: Ok thanks 00:35:09 Seems kind of interesting to me that the same wiki having languages like LOLCODE also has such intellectual articles on Turing-completeness :) 00:36:12 "Can haz stdio"? Classic. :) 00:36:41 maedhros777: you may note that boolfuck shows you don't even need more than two values 0 and 1 for TC, which means increment and decrement are the same operation 00:37:04 also some people here like to hate LOLCODE. just saying. ;D 00:37:23 oerjan: It's the greatest language ever :) 00:37:29 Besides BF, of course. 00:37:46 I should make a real-time multiplayer FPS in BF. =D 00:38:47 you might have _certain_ I/O problems. 00:38:51 maedhros777: Requires extensions. 00:38:58 At the very least something akin to PSOX. 00:39:15 You know I wasn't actually taking it seriously :) 00:39:31 But I could just do it in command prompt. 00:39:36 Without multiplayer, of course. 00:39:52 maedhros777: well someone _did_ make an adventure game already... 00:39:58 Really? 00:40:00 Where? 00:40:02 (although not directly in BF, i think) 00:40:07 Darn 00:40:18 it's called lostkng 00:40:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:40:36 I can't find it on google 00:40:42 it was compiled from BASIC, i think 00:41:20 Well, got to go now 00:41:22 Bye 00:41:24 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:44 oops 00:42:43 http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html 00:44:06 <3 LostKng. 00:44:18 Such a good test of compiler speed. 00:44:39 -!- Tritonio_GR1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:54:08 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 01:20:32 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:22:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:25:38 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 01:30:13 -!- Tritonio_GR1 has joined. 01:31:48 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:32:59 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:38:44 -!- uorygl has joined. 01:41:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:08 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:44:21 -!- uorygl has joined. 01:46:22 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:48:58 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:49:55 -!- uorygl has joined. 01:52:41 -!- uorygl has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:58:10 -!- Tritonio_GR1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:58:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:01:09 -!- uorygl has joined. 02:06:52 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:08:03 -!- uorygl has joined. 02:13:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:13:24 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:14:23 -!- uorygl has joined. 02:16:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:45:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:35 -!- lament has joined. 02:54:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:08:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:09:43 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:12:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:17:30 -!- uorygl has quit (Quit: Changing server). 03:26:59 -!- Warrigal has joined. 03:27:43 -!- sshc has joined. 03:29:23 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to uorygl. 03:44:26 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:51:25 My ISP is not run by humans. 03:51:32 It is run by people who HATE ALL THAT IS GOOD 03:51:42 Nay, not people. XD 03:51:50 By BEINGS who HATE ALL THAT IS GOOD 03:52:40 who's your ISP again? 03:52:52 Some sattelite thing 03:53:49 WildBlue. 04:01:42 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:06:17 -!- sshc has joined. 04:11:43 -!- sshc_ has joined. 04:13:20 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:16:50 -!- sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:16:51 -!- sshc has joined. 04:23:38 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:27:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:28:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:36:49 -!- sshc has joined. 04:42:45 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:47:31 -!- sshc has joined. 04:52:33 -!- sshc_ has joined. 04:54:36 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:57:24 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:57:49 -!- sshc has joined. 04:58:57 -!- sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:05:49 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:08:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:31:36 -!- MizardX has joined. 05:49:08 -!- jabb has joined. 05:49:11 !!! 06:08:02 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:10:28 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:32:46 -!- coppro has joined. 06:37:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:40:29 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 06:43:46 -!- sshc has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:11:20 -!- lament has joined. 07:20:49 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 07:24:42 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:27:26 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:30:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:30:53 -!- sshc has joined. 07:34:15 -!- relet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:07:30 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:07:58 But oerjan isn't here. Who's swatting? 08:09:00 probably SWAT 08:09:31 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:29:18 -!- atrapado has joined. 08:33:10 -!- jcp has quit (*.net *.split). 08:33:11 -!- P4 has quit (*.net *.split). 08:39:21 -!- jcp has joined. 08:39:22 -!- P4 has joined. 08:40:21 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:40:41 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:41:49 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined. 08:49:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:56:55 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 09:05:59 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 09:09:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:16:26 -!- uorygl has joined. 09:18:40 -!- Axtens has joined. 10:01:13 -!- tombom has joined. 10:10:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:11:26 But oerjan isn't here. Who's swatting? 10:11:40 i think he's doing it preemptively these days. 10:12:13 (FireFly) 10:23:06 -!- Axtens has quit (Quit: it's that time of day again). 10:30:49 Hi oerjan/ 10:31:14 Does AnMaster ever actually leave the channel? 10:31:46 ...i don't recall 10:35:59 * Phantom_Hoover has no idea what to do now. 10:38:27 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:51:19 fungot 10:51:20 Phantom_Hoover: good point. but does /etc/ bashrc... or cygwin. or vmware. or just listen to too mainstream music) 10:51:32 ^style Lovecraft 10:51:33 Not found. 10:51:37 ^style 10:51:38 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 10:51:49 ^style discworld 10:51:49 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 10:51:51 fungot 10:51:53 Phantom_Hoover: ' they have some questions to ask you a question, just like anything else; sometimes wizards were thin and gaunt and talked to her in any way will explain his conduct to the inquisitors. at length. 10:52:05 This is the coolest thing ever. 10:52:28 ^style irc* 10:52:29 Not found. 10:52:32 ^style irc 10:52:32 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 10:52:37 fungot 10:52:38 Phantom_Hoover: yeah... most bots simply parse everything on the webpage i just get back ( 3 1/ 2 10:53:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:54:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:12:23 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 11:25:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:36:46 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:54:52 Does AnMaster ever actually leave the channel? <-- in case of thunderstorms yes 11:54:54 only then 11:55:15 also atm I'm trying to write my own number->hex formatting routine 11:55:31 justification for not using printf: don't have it, embedded 11:55:38 It takes a *thunderstorm* to get you off the channel? 11:55:49 AnMaster: Just copy printf's code? 11:55:55 Phantom_Hoover, well, to get the bouncer on my system off the channel 11:56:02 Phantom_Hoover, not enough space for the code 11:56:11 Phantom_Hoover, plus then I would need to format ASCII to display segments 11:56:15 I mean the hex-printing bit. 11:56:17 I'm going straight to the segments here 11:56:28 Hmm, fair point. 11:56:29 digits[0] = raw_value & 0x000f; 11:56:29 digits[0] = raw_value & 0x00f0; 11:56:29 digits[0] = raw_value & 0x0f00; 11:56:29 digits[0] = raw_value & 0xf000; 11:56:34 nice eh? 11:56:42 wait 11:56:45 * AnMaster fixes indexes 11:56:49 from copy and paste 11:56:52 Aargh, low-level output! 11:56:59 Phantom_Hoover, what? 11:57:15 Phantom_Hoover, this is not the monitor yet 11:57:16 err 11:57:17 I don't understand it, so it scared me. 11:57:18 display 11:57:26 Phantom_Hoover, it isn't output 11:57:28 it is code I wrote 11:57:35 Ah. 11:57:38 Phantom_Hoover, by bitwise and I mask out each digit 11:57:41 What is digits? 11:57:49 Oh, wait, I get it. 11:57:50 Phantom_Hoover, an array to hold one digit per byte 11:58:00 Shouldn't the indices be different? 11:58:10 Phantom_Hoover, " wait 11:58:10 * AnMaster fixes indexes 11:58:10 from copy and paste" 11:58:42 Oops 11:58:52 Phantom_Hoover, I haven't yet compiled it anyway 11:59:45 wait *removes that array, wastes memory* 12:00:07 What is it being displayed on? 12:00:09 okay fun, I think it is displaying in reverse 12:00:11 Phantom_Hoover, the RCX 12:00:20 let me find you a picture of the display 12:00:44 This is all for your camera, right? 12:00:55 Phantom_Hoover, yes I need to check the range of the light sensor 12:01:05 so I can figure out what sort of values to use when programming it 12:01:20 Phantom_Hoover, 4x digits in front of the walking person icon http://www.legolab.daimi.au.dk/CSaEA/RCX/Manual.dir/Buttons.dir/rcx_buttons.gif 12:01:26 Phantom_Hoover, that is 7-segment iirc 12:01:58 How much memory do you have on that? 12:02:31 Phantom_Hoover, total address space is 2^16. a lot of it is rom or memory mapped registers, or just not mapped to anything 12:02:35 so not completely sure 12:02:42 let me check the CPU docs 12:03:30 well lets see, the memory controller is in mode 2, so that means the middle column of the diagram applies 12:04:17 what a shitty resolution 12:04:31 they put a bad jpeg in the pdf for this edition 12:04:39 for another variant from the same series they use vector graphics 12:04:39 ... 12:07:50 H0000-H0049 is interrupt vector table then 16384 bytes for the on chip PROM, can't do anything about that, then some reserved stuff... Then from H8000-HFB7F, external bus, then some reserved, then on-chip ram HFD80-HFF7F, then external bus at HFF80-HFF87, then HFF88-HFFFF is on-chip register field 12:08:11 Phantom_Hoover, now, some of the external address space maps to ram and some to motor control registers iirc 12:08:30 Phantom_Hoover, that should however give you an approximation 12:08:31 Hmm. 12:08:52 Phantom_Hoover, I code in C, I let brickOS handle the really low level stuff 12:09:03 Phantom_Hoover, brickOS however is smaller than the official firmware 12:09:10 Who write this in the first place? 12:09:17 s/write/wrote/ 12:09:19 Phantom_Hoover, wrote what? the doc? 12:09:27 BrickOS 12:09:44 it is on sf.net, not sure who wrote it originally 12:09:53 iirc all the original developers are long gone anyway 12:10:18 Phantom_Hoover, and I use a heavily patched version of brickOS called bibo since the sf.net project is basically dead and bitrotten 12:10:30 bitrotten? 12:10:33 yes 12:10:44 Phantom_Hoover, or did you ask what that meant? 12:10:50 Yes. 12:11:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rot 12:11:12 Phantom_Hoover, the second meaning there 12:11:12 I don't suppose it means that SF's repositories are corrupted? 12:11:16 Phantom_Hoover, no it doesn't 12:11:23 "Bit rot, also known as bit decay, data rot, or data decay, is a colloquial computing term used to describe either a gradual decay of storage media or (facetiously) the spontaneous degradation of a software program over time" 12:11:33 Phantom_Hoover, as in "no longer works with modern compilers" or similar 12:11:41 Ah. 12:11:50 Like with old IOCCC stuff. 12:11:52 Phantom_Hoover, I'm using old gcc and binutils anyway to be able to run this 12:12:34 Phantom_Hoover, well, here it usually isn't compile error, rather it is gcc configure saying: "wtf is this arch you want to make a cross compiler to? I have no idea what it is!" 12:12:41 well, not exactly those words 12:12:47 but the general gist of it ;P 12:13:30 Phantom_Hoover, or binutils, which at least support the arch as such saying "wtf, you think I support COFF for this platform? Only ELF, sorry" (again not word for word the error) 12:14:08 I am familiar with the general tone of error messages. 12:14:09 Phantom_Hoover, and then of course there is the issue of getting these old versions of binutils and gcc to compile on a modern system :D 12:14:15 I come across them frequently. 12:14:41 Phantom_Hoover, sure? the ROM of this thing has a rather funny error message if the magic string is missing from the downloaded firmware 12:14:46 well lets start with the magic string: 12:14:55 "Do you byte when I knock?" 12:14:59 the error if it is missing is: 12:15:05 "Just a bit off the block!" 12:15:25 Phantom_Hoover, I don't think that is the usual tone of the error messages ;P 12:15:32 True, but that's by LEGO. 12:15:43 Who would be more frivolous than GCC developers. 12:16:01 Phantom_Hoover, yeah but it isn't like no one sees it unless they are lego developers or hacking on custom firmware 12:16:20 Well, the world can do with some more confusion. 12:16:26 :) 12:16:35 s/no one/anyone/ 12:16:43 I got double negation there iirc 12:16:45 err 12:16:51 not iirc... 12:16:55 "as far as I can tell" 12:16:56 is better 12:17:00 meh, I need to wake up 12:17:10 Wait, what actually gives the error? 12:17:25 Phantom_Hoover, it is sent back to computer over the IR protocol 12:17:42 it is never displayed to the user by the normal apps 12:17:42 Ahh. 12:18:09 I hate being born late for the interesting things. 12:19:05 okay wtf.... 12:19:11 * AnMaster looks at his code 12:19:27 Phantom_Hoover, hm? how old are you? 12:19:46 CLASSIFIED 12:20:08 But, among other things, I only really got into computers a couple of years ago. 12:20:29 I see 12:20:37 and now. this makes no sense 12:20:47 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:21:06 Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again? 12:21:38 Phantom_Hoover, even more than that, I tried it in emulator as well, where I can input raw sensor value 12:21:43 and it still shows 0000 all the time 12:21:54 Are you sure it's plugged in? 12:22:25 the sensor? yes, the sensor in the simulation? yes even more so 12:22:37 I do see the sensor connected indication at the top of the screen anyway 12:22:39 so meh 12:22:55 wait, I forgot to bitshift the result 12:23:14 Damn, the sketch doesn't go any further 12:23:19 Phantom_Hoover, ? 12:23:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A&feature=related 12:23:42 will check later 12:25:31 hm what is the priority of & vs. >> ? 12:25:59 ah & goes before >> 12:26:03 means I don't need parens yay 12:26:22 I very nearly typed "C operator president" into Google there. 12:29:37 XD 12:31:25 wait, there is a "display hex" routine, hidden near the end of conio.h 12:31:25 heh 12:31:28 * AnMaster uses that 12:31:42 Where's the fun in that? 12:31:52 Phantom_Hoover, that I can get on to do other stuff 12:33:27 interesting, the raw values of my two light sensors differ quite a bit for the same light level 12:33:58 one gives black as 7700, the other as 8200 12:34:02 hex that is 12:34:49 since I'm driving them as passive the internal red led in them id off 12:34:50 is* 12:36:56 wait what, one of them gives a faint glow of the red led even when in passive mode? 12:36:57 wtf 12:41:09